2016 GOP Debate Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Today President Obama reacted petulantly to the GOP attacks on his record by warning the Republican candidates that there is nothing particularly patriotic about their talking down America.
The JV debate is happening now. The top-tier debate will follow. CNN will be live streaming both debates here.
–Dana
UPDATE BY PATTERICO: I plan to be active in the comments during the second debate, which is starting now.
UPDATE x2 BY PATTERICO: OK, it just ended. A commenter said:
Fiorina won, silver to Cruz, bronze to Carson.
I agree. I personally thought Fiorina’s impassioned statement on the Planned Parenthood videos was the top moment of the debate. The media won’t say this; they will focus on the fights and insults. But to me, and I think to millions of Americans, that was the moment. And Fiorina was just flat-out the most effective communicator; quickest on her feet, winning just about every exchange she took part in.
She will get a huge bump out of this.
Hello.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 4:39 pmObama was always so supportive of George W Bush and the war, too!
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 4:48 pmDamn. I missed the first round! Who won?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 4:50 pmWho won? More like who lost?
The Emperor (876157) — 9/16/2015 @ 4:52 pmcnn won at $200,000 a 30 second advertisement.
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 4:54 pmcnn and the candy crowley wannabes.
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:04 pmUPDATE BY PATTERICO: I plan to be active in the comments during the second debate, which is starting now.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:04 pmInteresting to hear femal CNN commentator say that Fiorina “clawed” her way on the stage. How about she earned her place on the stage like everyone else.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:08 pmEh, “female”…
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:09 pmthat there is nothing particularly patriotic about their talking down America.
And, uh, what was the case with Barry sitting in a church pew for 20 years listening to the sermons of a guy whose ethos was “not God bless America….no, no. It’s goddamn America!”
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:09 pmWelcome to those who oppose Donald Trump and wish them well pissing against the tide. It’s like betting against the SEC.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:09 pmHe’s bound to win, right? Because it literally doesn’t matter what he says.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:13 pmI don’t have access to Clinton News Network), so I’ll have to live the debate vicariously through the eyes and ears of other people.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:15 pmGracious of Carson to welcome Fiorina.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:16 pmMark: surely it’s watchable online!
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:16 pmMark, I posted the live streaming link in the post.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:17 pmLook the base is so angry at the establishment now that they are willing to back ANYONE who doesnt have a political background. Hence Trump,Carson,Fiorina high polls so far.
Mythx (2b99f8) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:17 pmFiorina didn’t say what her name was.
Mark: just go to cnn.com, I think you can watch there.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:18 pmOh gosh, Kaisch name dropping Reagan.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:18 pm$50M spent training/readying 4 or 5 fighters in Syria per Pentagon. As much a part of Obama’s legacy as any other EPIC FAIL he’s ultimately responsible for.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:19 pmTrump making faces like a high school dope when Tapper asked Fiorina about him
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:20 pmCarly just lost the nomination thruogh evasion. Her whole game has been forthright responses.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:20 pmTrump is way too thin-skinned, a trait reminiscent of Richard Nixon, and Bush is a dingleberry squish (which goes double or triple for some of the other candidates), leaving the field open to Ted Cruz and Ben Carson.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:21 pmGovernment is not a business and cannot be run like a business, Trump.
Nice answer by Fiorina.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:21 pmEd from SFV,
What??
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:22 pmCarson’s faithful humility is quite something in this milieu.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:22 pmI don’t know if I can listen to this tool for 3 hours.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:23 pmDamn. I missed the first round! Who won?
I debated a /sarc tag. Guess I should have.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:23 pmCarly has made tremendous inroads by being bold and forthright. She refused to answer a basic question. She revealed herself as a pol. The one thing she has fought. She has to be THE anti-pol.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:24 pmHe’s bound to win, right? Because it literally doesn’t matter what he says.
Trump could call Obama the best Presidenht since Jesus and his supporters would just slough it off.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:25 pmTrump can make America tremendous and yuge again.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:25 pmWalker doing pretty well there.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:26 pmPatterico, here’s a great quote from Gazzer on the Your Next President post.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:26 pmTrump is losing his swirl…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:26 pmCarly just lost the nomination thruogh evasion.
Like hell. That was a fantastic response. She’s ignoring the push to fight and stating her goals right along.
BTW, I am getting VERY PO’s at Tapper’s focus on personalities instead of issues.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:27 pmMy prediction from this morning:
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:27 pmTrump… Number 1 with a mullet.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:28 pmKasich grows a pair… and didn’t even tear up!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:29 pmThe pecking party is in full swing and Trump is on the hot seat. Dice are rolling and the knives are out. Et tu Brute?
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:29 pmThat remains to be seen. So far nobody likes Trump except people who talk to pollsters.
That raises a question: have we seen a poll of likely voters? I haven’t really looked.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:29 pmI agree recFiroina’s answer.vshes not letting herself be pushed around and smartly took advantage,of the moment.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:29 pmKrispy Christie: I’ll be the vessel which totally demolishes a baker’s dozen.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:30 pmIf “the knives are out”, gasbag Trump better be careful!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:32 pmi still think it’s highly questionable whether any R dumb enough to debate on the candy crowley channel could possibly be smart enough to do president stuff
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:32 pmThey didn’t invite happy and he’s pissed.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:34 pmsmirky mcbushfilth is already on my nerves
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:34 pmCruz is being ignored.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:35 pmMark: surely it’s watchable online!
Mark, I posted the live streaming link in the post.
Oops, yes, it is.
Trump vs Bush. LOL.
Entertaining.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:36 pmTapper is lousy. He is giving the others almost no time. Why do Trump/Carson/Firoina get first crack at almost everything?!!!!!
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:38 pmFiorina has a little dig at Trump there.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:38 pmoh carly wants to throw money at the problem
innovative thinking
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:38 pmCruz needs to jump in. He’s frustrating me.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:39 pmCruz gets a chance to say something, and is sounding good.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:40 pmGreat answer, Ted!
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:40 pmPersonalities and horse-race questions. Why bother? This is CNN refusing the let the candidates speak to the issues. They should all get together, fire Tapper and let Rick Perry ask the questions.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:40 pmCruz is being ignored.
Finally, he’s asked a question!
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:41 pmKasich is coming out poorly in this exchange over the Iran deal.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:41 pm“They didn’t invite happy and he’s pissed.”
He needs misogyny to keep him Happy.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:41 pmI agree; this so far seems like an attempt to get people fighting and an over-concentration on personalities.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:42 pmyes yes Mr. Colonel it’s nice to have a debate without yippy dog megyn there to represent for hillary
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:42 pmNope, rip up the agreement or bust. Rand you lose.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:43 pmKasich.
Squish, squish, squish.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:43 pmdoes Rand have a point in there somewheres
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:43 pmFinally, Rand Paul showing himself. Love it! Memo to Rand: By 1/17. Iran will have abrogated the agreements.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:43 pmTonight’s game plan is to pick on Trump, find a sore spot and rub it raw till he blows his top. And all the other candidates (with the possible exception of Ben Carson) including the CNN cutthroats are all in on the assassination.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:44 pmoh goody a bush talking about tactics and strategy
what a treat
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:45 pmF*ckabee is correct on the Iran deal.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:45 pmHugh with a softball for DT. Disappointing. DT did not merit a softball.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:47 pmI’m watching this on a delay and Trump did just give Paul a yuge kick in the ‘nads…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:47 pmBoom from Rubio.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:48 pmi think trump is right that obama’s a coward but you have to remember that obama’s not on america’s side really
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:48 pmEarly innings yet.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:48 pmpaul’s makeup is awful
look at that face
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:49 pmAlready Trump is making a rump of his own damn self.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:49 pmGood on Cruz for appropriately jumping in. He’s doing well too.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:50 pmEveryone’s a failed something according to Donald Trump.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:50 pmwhy is cruz doing goofy obama-style pronunciations
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:50 pmWe should have taken a hands-off position regarding Syria, so I agree with Paul.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:51 pmYES! We won’t KNOW if they cheat! Thank you, Ted.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:52 pmKasich is the worst pol up there. He really is.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:52 pmkasich’s lawn is definitely a no-go zone in his neighborhood
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:52 pmWalker to Trump short version: “I’m fresh off a Democrat’s ass and you just made me homesick”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:52 pmI like all these guys, I just don’t like some of ’em all that much.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:53 pmHuckabee talking about 9th grade civics yet thinks Dred Scott is still good law…
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:54 pmyes yes hick huckabee should go back to snorfling kimmy’s butt like a dog getting after a stale cheeto in the couch cushions I think
then the real candidates can have a grown-up debate about actual issues
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:54 pmSay good night, Kasich.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:54 pmF*ckabee makes a good point about accommodations.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:54 pmactually we should have aided assad, he’s the rival to the Salafi in the region, and volodya’s move is probably the first right one, in that area,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:55 pmI can’t stand Huckabee. But, he is entirely correct when it comes to the marginalization of faith in this country.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:55 pmOh God, Dana Bash.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:56 pmThere’s the media spin from Dana Bash that Cruz would be shutting down the government, not Cruz. He had better WHAP her on this.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:56 pmWHAP HER. WHAP HER GOOD.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:57 pmKasich is “sympathetic” to the defining issue of our time. Withdraw, you putz.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:58 pmHuckabee’s point about the idiocy of making an accommodation to radical Islamicists but not the county clerk in Kentucky is a good one.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:58 pmwhy does kasich wanna redistribute the planned p-hood monies?
why can’t we just stop spending it makes no sense
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:59 pmCruz is winning this thing so far.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:59 pmKasich is done.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 5:59 pmand tonight the role of megyn kelly will be played by our very own dana bash give her a warm welcome folks
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:01 pmTrump is a blowhard
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:01 pmall his bullshit and bluster
is just wind in sails
Fiorina shows real passion. First big moment of the night. That was awesome.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:02 pmBeautiful, Carly.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:02 pmcarly’s a silly giggle-pickle tonight
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:02 pmJeb totally unimpressive.
Cruz and Fiorina winning IMO. I like Cruz better but I think her performance is the best so far. She is VERY good at this.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:03 pmHey, Jeb. I missed the press release where you urge the shutdown of the USG if it refuses to defund PP. Most pro-life governor on the stage. What a low standard.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:04 pmAnyone watching this and reading that comment is going to form a negative opinion of you.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:04 pmTrump is a blowhard
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:04 pmall his bullsh*t and bluster
is just wind in sails
oh my goodness i take it back i take it back
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:05 pmAnd Ben Carson has been relegated.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:06 pmHere it is. The face thing.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:06 pmBOOM
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:07 pmA suggestion:
After the debate, a poll on the 11 candidates. If they are the nominee, do tou:
1. Vote for them gladly?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:07 pm2. Vote for them grudgingly?
3. Stay home/write-in/vote 3rd party?
Trump = phony.
Fiorina wins that big.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:07 pmCarly Fiorina would chew Hillary’s two left wings, two fat thighs KFC Special persona up and spit it out… that’s how she rolls. Cruz sees Tapper’s weaksh*t’s up in his wheelhouse and hits it out of the park.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:07 pmFiorina is simply killing out there, as of the first commercial break. She is going to get a giant bump out of this debate unless something weird happens.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:09 pmCruz/Fiorina 2016.
Yes, she’s doing better tonight, but I still like him better.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:09 pmthe more President Obama talks, the more i come to despise him and be disappointed in the people who should know better that follow him like he is a pied piper.
seeRpea (063011) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:09 pmNot much distance between Paul and Obama on foreign policy issues.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:10 pmdeporting people before building the wall isn’t really a fun game Mr. Trump
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:12 pm#95: excellent point, did any of the candidates bring up that point?
seeRpea (063011) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:12 pmI hate this “my first day in office” schtick by people who have never held a role like the Presidency. It’s so glib – it makes it sound like the problem with previous Presidents is that they are lazy, not that it’s a huge job and that Washington is defective. IMHO.
bridget (37b281) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:12 pm“it can be done with heart”
nice line from the donald there
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:12 pmApparently Bush wouldn’t consider glassing Iran over as a strong message.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:12 pmno Mr. pea nobody brought that up about the spendings
carly wants to build more boats
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:13 pmI do give Trump credit for not being a politically correct wussy about illegal immigration.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:14 pmWhy do we have to deport everyone? They didn’t just magically come here; they made it here by foot, boat, plane, train, or car. Remove the incentives for them to come here, and make it horrible to hire illegal immigrants, and they will leave. If they came by foot, they can leave by foot. If they arrived by boat, they can take a boat home.
bridget (37b281) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:14 pm“Something missing from our president”… ya think!?!?!?!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:14 pmJake Tapper still trying to get people to fight.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:14 pmI cannot stand Dana Bash.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:15 pmI do like the very literal-minded, 2+2=4 comments from Ben Carson regarding the border.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:15 pmThank you for playing our game, Dr. Carson. We have nice parting gifts for you. man…I hate that he can’t play the game even a little. What a shame.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:16 pmwell if you read session’s plan, that’s not necessary,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:17 pmI do love DT defining Jeb. More, please.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:17 pmTrump is correct about the squishy emotions of Jeb Bush influencing his stance on immigration.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:18 pmI am a happy dude. Jeb just defined himself. This debate is working out excellently, despite Tapper and Bash’s best efforts.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:18 pmIf Kasich left the stage right now and no one noticed, would it have happened?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:18 pmJeb Bush’s mother is correct about America having enough Bushes in the White House.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:19 pmLIAR! The adults refuse to learn English and they do NOT share our values.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:19 pmmarco sleazio has a faux-gravitas cadence he likes to return to again and again it’s very obama
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:20 pmI’d pay good money to watch Jake “the Sh*t Disturber” Tapper mud-wrestle Dana “Weak-Suck” Bash, no holds barred, pay-per-view.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:23 pmSo far, Hugh has been a useful idiot. Marginalized by Tapper, and then by his refusal to go after big truths, which is his biggest personal asset and greatest service to us all.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:25 pm… make that Dana “the Tain’t” Bash…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:25 pmTrump makes good common sense on birthright citizenship.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:27 pmTalk about lack of details. Candidates very rarely provide exact details of their plans. Why? Because the how is almost always a dynamic situation, often involving Congress effecting their ability to get stuff done. Thus, the idea that Trump is short on specifics is ludicrous given the “details” standard that every other candidate is held to. What details did Obama ever provide?
School Marm (f96753) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:28 pmyes yes trump did many good saying about the anchor babes
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:28 pmI like the way Fiorina pivoted over to criticizing the Democrats on illegal immigration more than anything pertaining to Trump.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:29 pmNice answer from Fiorina on HP.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:31 pmcarly nailed that question glad she got all the giggle-pickle out of her system early
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:33 pmToo much self-congratulatory grandstanding by Fiorina. She has a tendency to sound like a shrewish scold. She can’t control her emotions.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:33 pmClassic populism by Christie. Blame DT and CF for Tapper’s woeful performance.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:35 pmGovernor from Jersey makes a good point.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:36 pmChristie’s comment was BS. They were asked the question and Fiorina is right: it’s a discussion about people’s track records.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:36 pmJohn, thanks for your efforts on our behalf 10 years ago, but what are you going to do for us now that Mitch McConnell isn’t already doing?
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:38 pmGood for Christie and Kasich refusing to play the game. They should all decline to answer any question with “Trump” in it.
TVD (b78be6) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:40 pmHe was ignored in the Fox debate too. Wonder why.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:41 pmToo much self-congratulatory grandstanding by Fiorina. She has a tendency to sound like a shrewish scold. She can’t control her emotions.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:33 pm
Now THAT is guffaw-worthy!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:42 pmit’s time for meemees i’m not staying up late on a school night for this it’s too tedious
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:42 pmTapper gets upset when people don’t fight each other.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:43 pmBeyond the particulars of Carson’s and Trump’s stance on taxes, the focus should be on reducing the burden on the middle-class more than anything regarding an increase on other income levels.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:44 pmEnuf about Trump, already. CNN is the junior varsity.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:44 pmAfter reading the comments, the establishment republicans must be thinking about going third party.
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:44 pmCNN wants Trump to win.
The Emperor (734d50) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:45 pmI don’t think Trump is winning this debate, although there sure is (thanks to Tapper mostly) a lot of jabbering about him.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:46 pmHewitt reminds us why Kasich (and his resistance to slamming crud like Hillary) is a goody-goody, squish-squish.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:47 pmI’m disappointed in Tapper. I didn’t think he would be so manipulative.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:47 pmHugh is among the biggest losers tonight. Unreal. He did gain the MSM seal of approval though, so he has that going for him. STYLE?!!! You ask a STYLE question?!!!!!!!!!! You have almost no chance to ask a single question, and you go STYLE???!!!!!!!
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:47 pmAnother question: Which of these candidates has what it takes to be President. Clue: Not all of them. Irrespective of who I like, from what I’ve seen here tonight, I’d say: Huckabee, Walker, Fiorina and Bush for certain. Probably Trump, Carson, Cruz and Christie. Probably not Paul, Kasich, or Rubio.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:47 pmThe racist Jake Tapper is totally marginalizing Dr. Ben Carson. Racisty racist!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:49 pmA VP candidate’s job is to be the attack dog against the other ticket. Paul Ryan was a pussy. Carly LOVES going after Hillary!
TVD (b78be6) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:50 pmI’d say: Huckabee, Walker, Fiorina and Bush for certain.
Your confidence in Huckabee and certainly Jeb Bush isn’t shared by me whatsoever.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:51 pmShame on CNN! Manipulating the process to make Trump look formidable. But I think the mask is wearing off on this Trump nonsense. Americans can see for the first time how petulant, childish and empty this Trump fellow truly is.
The Emperor (734d50) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:52 pmVERY telling that Hewitt gave kasich equal standing with Fiorina in his preamble “Each of you are fine with your approach.” And that he even asked Kasich a question there. HH has shown his hand. It is not conservative. It is centrist (which he endlessly declares “center-right”). It’s largely why he lost his prime slot on his home station. KRLA.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:52 pmI enjoy the funny faces Trump pulls, mg. So he’s got that going for him. Pulling funny faces… he’s got yuge, mad skillzzzzzz.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:52 pmThis is a heck of a debate, much better than FOX’s dog and pony show. The candidates are real and they’s plenty of give and take. Well worth the time and effort, and thanks to Patterico and to all the commenters.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:52 pmTeh Chimperor!!!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:53 pmBless you all for watching, I’ll read your comments.
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:55 pmcareful of the tsunamis Mr. P
happyfeet (831175) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:56 pmDana “Tain’ted Love” Bash did CNN a disservice… wait… is that even possible?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:56 pmAnother personal softball question for a favored moderate by Hewitt.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:58 pmHP still stands… Trump uses a Clinton suck-butt from Yale Business School to trash Fiorina… oh, Teh humanity!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 6:58 pm“You do have your one percent.”
LINGUISTIC KILL SHOT! SCOTT ADAMS GIVES A STANDING O!!!
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:00 pmHP is in trouble and being split in 2.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:01 pmYikes! Christie loves Krispy Kreme donuts and hates him some Carly!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:02 pmTrump is on the downhill. That Bush talk hurt him more than Bush who wasn’t even there.
The Emperor (734d50) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:03 pmDirect TV was bought by AT&T… was it in trouble?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:03 pmOne divided by 2 is an altogether different equation than 1 plus 1.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:06 pmGetting bored.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:10 pmOK let’s wrap this puppy up. What, almost an hour left??
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:11 pmBen Carson has a great sense of humor, subtle and dry to be sure, but clever and funny.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:11 pmI went back and replayed Fiorina’s excellent statements on Iran and Planned Parenthood. She’s great.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:13 pmCarson killed himself on the Afghanistan issue. Americans supported Bush on that responsive attack on the Taliban. There’s a place for diplomacy, this is not one of them.
The Emperor (876157) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:14 pmRand Paul makes an excellent point. But, overall, he goes too far.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:15 pmOh, Dana Bash again, yay.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:17 pmJake not from State Farm unhappy Carly was allowed to display military knowledge.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:17 pmGo get him, Ted! Roberts is a disgrace and he knew full well what he was doing.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:19 pmYes, ropelight, different equation but the move seems to make sense in light of weakened market for PCs. Where’s Compaq? How’s Dell doing?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:21 pmTRUTH! Love Ted.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:21 pmDon’t ask me, I’m still using a 8 year old Acer running Windows Vista.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:23 pmDown in Kentucky, Paul would have had to ask Trump to step outside for a good ol’-fashioned ass-whuppin’
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:23 pmTrump blaming the economic collapse on GWB… what a certifiable asshole.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:24 pmOn second thought make that a 15 year old Acer. I was using it to comment here when the Twin Towers went down on 9/11/2001.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:26 pmFiorina won, silver to Cruz, bronze to Carson. But Carly sister, I get that you’re tough and know how many battleships we need without having to look down at an index card, but figure out how to smile now and then and you might win this thing.
Kevin Stafford (df475d) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:29 pmAnd here I thought Polar Bears was issue #1 amongst the proletariat. Nah. 420! What’s that? Jake not from State Farm just shot a nuclear torpedo at Rand Paul and is trying to make sure the fallout kills all on stage? OK. Got it.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:29 pmGWB isn’t entirely responsible for the economic crash, but he did call both John McCain and Barack Obama to a White House meeting to discuss immediate plans. Obama turned it into an opportunity to “blame Bush” and never looked back.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:30 pmSomething I think all of you know, but need to remember:
The Left doesn’t act this way.
I like this way better, but it does give the Left an advantage—ammo in the general election.
I wish the Left would criticize their own to forge better candidates. But they don’t.
It’s going to be a rough election cycle.
Simon Jester (dbc623) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:32 pmI agree. Carly did herself good tonite. I expect her numbers to go up after now. Good job. I fantasize about a possible clash her and with Hillary in the general. And I agree she needs to smile more.
The Emperor (876157) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:35 pmThe audience laughs despite Carly’s expression of deep personal pain. Disgusting.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:36 pmGee, Hugh. Trying to rehab Jeb much?
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:36 pmIs it just me or is Jeb Bush getting the lion’s share of face time?
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:37 pmIs it over? I’m still watching it. Is it on a delay or something??
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:39 pmI remember Acer. My first computer. Which was replaced by two HPs in a row. The last one, still running on Windows XP, is unuseable because of issues with the mouse and monitor…both kind of died… but yet to replace it because everything of import I can do on this tablet. (Work related stuff is done solely on work computers at work.). Which probably illustrates HP’s problems.
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:39 pmtrump – 63% on drudge
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:39 pmI’m still watching
Dejectedhead (ba8561) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:40 pmI had an E machine, the ones referred in Beldar’s explanation re the compaq deal, which lasted me about two years,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:41 pmTapper is such a liar. Ozone was not solved by anything any human ever did. Poor polar bears.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:42 pmropelight–
Don’t despair about Jeb (“!”) and his face time–it’s how the 6 percent of R’s who don’t already regard this Fredo Bush as a simpering, loony-left fool will finally emerge into the light.
Kevin Stafford (df475d) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:42 pmHas Ted been shut down by CNN?
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:47 pmCruz/West 2016
Hahahahahaha: “He’s an OK doctor.” Love it.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:48 pmDid anyone catch how Cruz tried to say something about climate change and Tapper wouldn’t let him? He started to say “I’m a real skeptic” and Tapper cut him off.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:50 pmThere is no ball anywhere on earth that is easier to roll than Jake Tapper. Most spineless debate moderator EVER.
Kevin Stafford (df475d) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:51 pmcruz had the 5th most amount of time, considering he was third in most polls,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:52 pmOzone and AGW are totally unrelated things. Talk about illogic.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:52 pmthanks, narciso.
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:54 pmIm with Huckabee, we should just cure cancer. What were we thinking?
Dejectedhead (ba8561) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:54 pmmg at #210 is accurate. Drudge’s real time poll has Trump winning the debate by over 60% of respondents, Carley in second place with 14%. All the rest, including Ben Carson, are deep in the noise.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:56 pmI thought Christie was saying the Addams family. Not the Adams family.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 7:57 pmMe too.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:00 pmFredo Bush
Your allusion to a character from The Godfather does make me laugh.
Trump playing into the hands of the left by mimicking the notion that the Great Recession of 2008 was somehow due to his brother, George W Bush, is as irritating to me as the overall visceral reaction I have towards Jeb. Not sure why that is, or why I have suspicions about him that are even greater than the ones I have towards thin-skinned loudmouth Trump. Even more so when the latter may be more of a closeted liberal than the former is. But I see the ex-governor of Florida as embodying those characteristics that have nurtured the PC-squish-squish nonsense of today.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:03 pmYou can almost hear Christopher Hitchens rage from his grave upon hearing Kasich talk of putting Mother Theresa’s image on our currency
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:03 pmhonestly, cruz and carlie, did well, carson stumbled a little, but no one learned from the last series of debates, not to hand the enemy, a loaded gatling gun,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:04 pmI think that’s right.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:04 pmCandidates are responding to the following question: If you’re elected President, how would the world look different after you leave office?
No one’s going to ask me or give a tinker’s damn what I think, but here’s my 2 cents: The re-invigoration of the 10th Amendment.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:06 pmCruz’ manifesto as he spoke in conclusion, is a masterful and succinct set of saving principles. He is more than smart enough to know how to stick to those few concepts in everything he says and does, too.
Carly is the other candidate with similar wisdom and determination.
Along with Rubio, they won tonight.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:08 pmUPDATE x2 BY PATTERICO: OK, it just ended. A commenter said:
I agree. I personally thought Fiorina’s impassioned statement on the Planned Parenthood videos was the top moment of the debate. The media won’t say this; they will focus on the fights and insults. But to me, and I think to millions of Americans, that was the moment. And Fiorina was just flat-out the most effective communicator; quickest on her feet, winning just about every exchange she took part in.
She will get a huge bump out of this.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:13 pmI didn’t see the debate. Whose campaign got deflated in this “A” game debate? And why?
(No, I never bought Cliff’s Notes)
John Hitchcock (53ebbf) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:16 pmRand Paul and John Kasich went nowhere.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:17 pmEven more so when the latter may be more of a closeted liberal than the former is.
Closeted is not a necessary word there. Or maybe only in the sense of a walk in closet with the doors left wide open.
But remember this about Jeb! Jeb! was the governor of a state which is half Democratic. He had the benefit of GOP dominated legislature, but he did have to govern a state in which half the voters were at odds with him. So naturally the inherent squishiness was a feature for him, not a flaw. The conservative critique of him should focus on the fact that he did not shrink state government. He merely privatized it by outsourcing.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:17 pmWalker a huge loser tonight. Least amount of speaking time and did absolutely nothing to stand out.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:17 pmScott Walker did little to help himself.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:17 pm226. Trump playing into the hands of the left by mimicking the notion that the Great Recession of 2008 was somehow due to his brother, George W Bush …
The crisis was caused by a complete collapse of traditional lending standards in the home mortgage market. GWB wasn’t solely responsible for this but his policies were a big contributor.
James B. Shearer (32f75a) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:18 pmMy comment crossed with Ed from SFV’s — GMTA.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:18 pmMedia will make a thing out of Fiorina’s comments about Trump’s comments about her face. Trump did look like a chump there.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:19 pmWalker was my guy two months ago. Tonight he won my vote for Realtor of the Year. His Nixonian sweaty upper lip didn’t help. Poor guy. Though he’ll undoubtedly make a great Secretary of Transportation in Carly’s first term.
Kevin Stafford (df475d) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:21 pmI was amused when Bush demanded that Trump apologize to his wife for dragging her into the campaign. Trump was very complimentary toward her, and Bush repeated his demand. Instead of saying, “I didn’t say anything wrong” I would have looked at Bush and said, “I didn’t drag her into this campaign, you did when you started making campaign videos with her.”
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/15/jeb-bush-speaks-good-spanish-his-wife-speaks-poor-english-in-new-video/
And I get tired of having to say I’m not a Trump supporter but Trump was exactly right. When he commented about Bush’s wife he said if his wife was Mexican then he would have a soft spot for the Mexican people too.
That entire video is about what a soft spot Bush has for the Mexican people and their culture.
I can’t stand Bush. As far as I’m concerned the more face time he gets, the better.
Steve57 (a07e69) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:22 pmHow is it that Obama’s executive order legalizing millions of illegals or why Bush says he wouldn’t overturn it never came up?
All the respondents did not challenge the bogus climate change premise. Cruz tried to say something and Tapper stopped him.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:26 pmTrump makes good common sense on birthright citizenship.
Well, no. He just mumbeled stuff about it. What he needs to say is this: “When the 14th amendment was passed, people could not casually travel long distances. It was never intended to include the children of transients.”
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:28 pmWhat a great country! We’ll put Mother Theresa’s picture on our currency, but we won’t let her religious order the Missionaries of Charity open a hospice unless they violate their conscience and their vows and agree to procure contraceptives and abortifacients for themselves and any employees.
Steve57 (a07e69) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:28 pmWalkers mistake was hiring Romney’s flunky consultants.
mg (31009b) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:31 pmDon’t ask me, I’m still using a 8 year old Acer running Windows Vista.
This pretty much disqualifies you from any comment about technology. It’s like driving a Yugo and commenting on cars.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:32 pmI thought Christie was saying the Addams family. Not the Adams family.
I’m OK with the Morticia on the ten-spot.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:35 pm“Media will make a thing out of Fiorina’s comments about Trump’s comments about her face. Trump did look like a chump there.”
They’re already making a thing out of her PP comments. Not surprising.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:35 pmwhat happened to the design team behind Vista, have they been flayed for that effort,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:37 pmSeems like Trump is starting to zig zag on some things. Like social security for the wealthy. Did he just say that they should have a choice about taking it as he claimed tonight or did he say they shouldn’t get it? I expect we’ll see quite a bit of zig zagging from him.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:45 pmFiorina won, hands down. She is clearly the biggest threat to Trump as she appeals to some of the same sentiments, but is quite clearly better prepared than hair-gel guy.
I don’t think Carson did all that well, unless “low-key” is high on everyone’s list. I move him now to the “unprepared to be President” list, but he might make a great UN Ambassador.
Kasich was his usually ur-squishy self. He’s for people who find Jeb too dramatic. Jeb did well for people who are looking for steady-as-she-goes competence. I don’t know if they exist, though.
Huckabee probably improved outside his base. He seemed almost reasonable.
Trump probably couldn’t say anything to dissuade the True Believers, but vaccines cause autism? Really? That’s just lazy at best, with a tinge of Truther.
Walker? Almost shut out and too softly spoken. People want to SEE some fire, and he hid it.
Cruz? I confess I dislike his speaking style, so I can’t judge well, but he didn’t score enough points to beat the spread.
Rubio had some fire and probably helped, but he’s really just runnning for Veep. Fiorina/Rubio?
Rand, Christie and Kasich are going to be looking for chairs if they go down to 8.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:48 pmI thought Kasich looked ill when he had to close after Fiorina wrapped the flag around her self and all women.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:49 pmGWB wasn’t solely responsible for this but his policies were a big contributor.
After looking more closely at the matter, you may be correct. However, all the liberals who shed tears whenever a welfare-dependent, drug-addicted person can’t qualify for a mortgage are very much a fact of life. Or the type of mentality promoted by Obama and his Justice Department, which over the past few years has forced (or extorted) banks to give wide latitude to sub-par people applying for mortgages.
All partisanship aside, I guess one can say that George W Bush is rightly jeered by Trump for helping incubate the Great Recession just as anyone can also thump Bush for being too much an enabler to bad practices in general, such as looking the other way when Congress kept giving him bloated budgets.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:52 pmah no Bill Clinton did the lion’s share of that, with the CRA revision, pumping up fannie and freddie, siccing the DOJ on skeptical lenders,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:56 pmKevin M,
Interesting obs re Kasich. I saw some anger in him tonight when asked about his reluctance to attack Hillary. I have heard HH ask him about this on his show before and Kasich got prett annoyed, even angry, at having to explain himself. He certainly doesn’t like his judgment questioned.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 8:59 pmI’m a a broken record – Hewitt now on Salem radio extolling the virtues of Kasich appealing to the “old center” of the GOP.
Cruz not mentioned by Hewitt or Benson, who is hosting the post-debate. Carly getting props and Christie getting kudos, as well.
Cruz obliterated the Bushies on their refusal to fight for a conservative SCOTUS nominee. hewitt was the leading media person defending Harriet freaking Miers. Never forget this! HH will never give Cruz the airtime and due he has earned.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:01 pmKasich ought to be wearing a dress. He’s so yesterday, and his knee-jerk Pollyanna act bores the socks off me.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:08 pmMark@254
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:09 pmIt is appropriate to blame GWB for the Recession. He had seven years to correct any problems caused by Clinton’s policies…and didn’t. And TARP was on his watch.
Kasich is another Souter. On this hand and on that hand and other the other hand…
He tries to be in the center of every Venn diagram.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:10 pmIt was never intended to include the children of transients.”
It was certainly not intended for the children of people here illegally. Of course, being here illegally was not a concept then either. The welfare state is what males open borders impossible. Europe is learning that right now.
Mike K (d45bd4) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:11 pmI was out but the people I know who saw the debate felt Cruz was too scripted and precise. Those are the qualities that made him a champion debater and an impressive appellate court advocate, but they may work against him if people are looking for someone they can identify with.
DRJ (521990) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:13 pmI wandered over to Hot Air (them and twitchy seem to freeze up my browser for some reason) and saw a couple quick videos. Holy cow, what a turd in the punch bowl Trump is when someone else is talking, and his 3rd grade (yes, Hot Air was accurate) attack on Rand Paul’s appearance was totally stoopid. Typical Trump, but stoopid. And the commenters attacking Fiorina for having a fit about the face thing Trump did? Seriously? From the video, she had a quick statement and didn’t expound, and that was just answering a question that she was trying to throw away and move on.
John Hitchcock (53ebbf) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:13 pmEvening, y’all. My first comment regarding the debate — having DVR’d and watched it at leisure, with rewinds — before having read or heard any other comments here or elsewhere:
Tonight’s clear winner in the debate was George W. Bush.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:14 pmTARP was a (bad) solution, not the problem. The problem was that the financial sector was a house of cards and the bottom level was failing.
The better solution, which would have gotten the same money to the banks AND shored up the mortgage secondaries, was for the government to pay 10% of every owner-occupied or apartment-house mortgage. At least that way the middle-class would get bailed out too, instead of taking it in the shorts. The money could have been recouped by reducing the cap gains exclusions.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:15 pmW had a good night, admittedly, as far as foreign policy was concerned. Economics is still a weak point, though.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:16 pmI admired the way Carly got her stump speeches inserted in the debate. And it wasn’t because the mods helped, either.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:18 pmFrank Lutz, unabashed tool of the GOPe, is on Megyn Kelly’s FOX show with his phony focus group trashing Trump again.
If a Drudge poll is representative of conservative opinion then Trump won hands down. At last look there were over 212,000 respondents:
Trump – 59%
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:19 pmFiorina – 15%
Carson – 5%
Cruz – 6%
Paul – 6%
Rubio – 5%
Bush, Christie, Kasich, Huckabee, and Walker 1% each.
Mike–
The 14th Amendment was set to prevent states from claiming that residents should be expelled (e.g. back to Africa). I think it does cover children of people who have come here to live, whether or not they are legally here. At least after they’ve been here a few years.
What it does NOT cover is birthright tourism. Whether the entry is legal or illegal, stopping in for a weekend to have a kid does not make it a citizen. There is no evidence of a desire to live here, and they are no more entitled to citizenship than the transients spoken of in 1867 (then almost entirely diplomats).
Trump explained it badly, but go back and listen — he was talking about births to transients, by foot, car or plane.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:23 pmI’ve seen a number of Twitter feeds where people are complaining about Cruz’s pandering to Trump. It seems it’s hurting Cruz because it’s being seen as a weakness.
Dana (86e864) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:24 pmropelight–
Ron Paul would have won that in 2012. Bet you Trump pays better though.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:24 pmIt seems it’s hurting Cruz because it’s being seen as a weakness.
Because it is. Cruz’ plan was to get the Trump voters after the Donald self-destructed, but it is taking so long that he looks foolish, kind of like Price Charles.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:25 pm*Prince
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:26 pmWalker’s handlers need to get him talking about hot ham and rolls on Sunday to help humanize him a little.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:45 pmMmkay, I’ve now skimmed the comments here, no other input.
Fiorina had a fabulous night. I think she helped herself more than any other candidate onstage. Most of the ways in which she helped herself are obvious, as are the ways that she might have wounded Trump.
I also agree that Cruz helped himself a great deal, and likely with many of the same people that were impressed by Fiorina.
I’m surprised to say that I thought everyone else on stage had at least one or two good moments — even Trump, whom I detest. Nothing I saw of Trump changed anything I thought about him, but I have a hard time guessing how he’s perceived by people who don’t already either adore or despise him.
I disagree that Carson helped himself, and in fact I wouldn’t rank him among my top seven. Rather, I thought he had a disastrous evening, and I think he will drop 5-8 points in the next three days. Carson’s been polling well recently with people who want him to convince them he’s deeply grounded enough in foreign policy/military/defense and economics issues — and on each of those, he stumbled badly, I thought. I cannot imagine the GOP nominating someone who opposed going after al Qaeda in Afghanistan and still adheres to that decision.
Christie, Huckabee, Rubio, and even Walker each had a few good moments, and I think will neither suffer nor rise as a result.
Democrats and mainstream media pundits will score Kasich higher (again) than most actual Republicans will. Rand Paul was useful on particular topics and for particular purposes, so I was glad he was on stage, but I thought he has now dropped to about the equivalent of his father’s cadre.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:47 pmMy debate scoreboard.
I gave B+s to Donald Trump, Jeb Bush, Carly Fiorina and Scott Walker, and I saw Ben Carson as the clear loser. His statements were too often wishy-washy, and he didn’t project confidence or decisiveness. Rand Paul should never have showed up.
The Republican Dana (1b79fa) — 9/16/2015 @ 9:55 pmThe talking heads seem to have all but given up for now trying to land telling blows on Trump. Early on the effort to rile The Donald faltered and failed when he declined to take the bait and weathered harsh attacks by candidates Carly Fiorina and Jeb Bush aided and abetted by CNN’s trigger man, Trapper.
Now, they’re all heaping excessive praise on Carly Fiorina in a desperate effort to avoid acknowledging Trump’s strong showing in contemporaneous flash polls. See the poll at Drudge’s site, it tells the tale. Like Gazzer pointed out – No one seems to like Trump, except the voters.
ropelight (cbaa5b) — 9/16/2015 @ 10:30 pmre Trump – anyone here living in MN at the time Ventura got elected? How similar was that situation to the present state of dissatisfaction with politicos?
seeRpea (063011) — 9/16/2015 @ 10:52 pmAgainst my will, I was really impressed by Fiorina.
I would put Rubio and Christie in second and third, myself.
aphrael (4eae3a) — 9/16/2015 @ 10:54 pmDRJ, … felt Cruz was too scripted and precise … I agree. His eye work was robotic. Stare at camera with red light … look left … stare at camera with red light … look right … repeat until finished with thought. His behavior really distracted from the message he was trying to send. It was so different from his poise and spontaneity with the Code Pink types.
He needs new coaches. He has the knowledge and the skills to ad lib this stuff, and he’d be much better off if that’s what he did. The Code Pink video showed this side of him. Instead, he and his consultants probably gamed the whole debate, and he’d practice several hundred possible answers until each was “perfect” … meaning unambiguous and on message. But he left the human part back in the dressing room.
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/16/2015 @ 10:58 pmIf a Drudge poll is representative of conservative opinion then Trump won hands down.
Perhaps Mike Huckabee may have honed in on the origins of the emotions behind such a lopsided tally — or poll respondents’ feelings of utter contempt towards political correctness run amok and its enablers — when he noted that the current system is willing to accommodate a deranged Islamic fanatic like Nidal Hasan but not a person like Kim Davis and her doing no more to the system than what is being done by mayors who’ve declared their cities as sanctuaries for illegal immigrants.
Trump is a thin-skinned loudmouth who easily dispenses with filtering his comments — and, yea, that can be similar to the MO of a teenager — but that is pretty much the flip side of politically correct dorks who pause after each word and worry they may insult some protected group or go against an idea or policy (or person) that is wrapped around the cheapness of compassion for compassion’s sake.
Mark (26006c) — 9/16/2015 @ 11:48 pmI didn’t watch as I was asleep in Brussels. I’ve checked blogs and it seems Carly did well and Carson looked weak.
Trump is Trump and I find it hard to see how he will go the distance.
London tonight and home next week. My British friends are befuddled by American politics but then, so am I.
Mike K (d45bd4) — 9/16/2015 @ 11:58 pmDana, I read that summary and mostly disagree. Yes, Carson did badly, but he did badly last time and shot up a dozen points, so go figure. I liked his answer on vaccinations.
Trump had a horrible night to anyone who isn’t drowning in the KoolAid. The constant face mugging was not only disrespectful, but childish. This is a President? Please no. He clearly suffered in comparison with Carson and Fiorina who between them had 80 IQ points on the man. That the press is playing along should not be a good sign.
Kasich has no center. He will tell you whatever he feels you want to hear, and he’s good at it. I can’t say if he dropped names more times that Trump said he was rich, but it was close.
Christie may have helped, or not. All I hear when he talks is “blah blah blah blah gun control.”
The online polls mean nothing, except the Paulbots clearly can’t save Rand.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 1:04 amre Trump – anyone here living in MN at the time Ventura got elected? How similar was that situation to the present state of dissatisfaction with politicos?
How did that work? I don’t see acting out at the polls as an answer.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 1:06 amAgainst my will, I was really impressed by Fiorina.
I had that experience two months ago. I’ve sent her $50 twice since then.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 1:07 amMy wife thought boosh was going to crap his pants, I don’t know how she watched the b.s.
mg (31009b) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:03 amcarson was way way too quaaludey
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:13 amfiorina lost me with all that lifeydoodle nonsense
she’s really slurped up the propaganda
listening to that humorless shrew screech about fetuses til the cows come home is not something i look forward to
i’m back on team walker i think
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:15 ambig loser tonight was the tea party
them puppies is dead
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:18 amWalker’s mistake was hiring Romney’s flunky consultants.
true true true he would’ve been smart tonight to make a pitch for the economic growth mantle and job creation focus that was (the only thing) attractive about that “Rick Perry” guy
did anyone mention “Rick Perry” at all?
it would’ve been a useful lens to use I think especially for a reformer like Mr. Walker
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:33 amSounds to me like the establishment hacks are toast, so now is the time for chamber of commerce money to corrupt Fiorina and ride her skirt.
mg (31009b) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:35 amyes yes Jeb really suffered just by being placed next to Mr. The Donald to where they were in all those shots together
he makes Mr. The Donald look so strong, so wise, so powerful
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:37 amoh
trump’s anti-vaxxer twaddle is sort of a dealbreaker huh
that was after i went meemees
embarrassment of riches my ass
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:51 amTapper Bash Hewitt did a good job keeping the candidates away from serious issues like jobs taxes spending and jobs
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:53 amMissing From The GOP Debate: Obamacare
yup
dead fetuses are the new hotness
nobody cares about the failmerican health care system for actual living people anymores, especially not the sad witless gaggle of propaganda-slurpers what was on stage last night
i want a pina colada and it’s only 6 a.m.
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 4:01 amIt’s noon somewhere, happyfeet.
mg (31009b) — 9/17/2015 @ 4:09 amCheers
Mr M wrote:
Mr Trump had a time advantage not only because so many of the questions involved him, but also because he grabbed the time, because he forced his way into answers. The New York Times said that he got 20:07 of time during the debate, with Jeb Bush second, more than three minutes behind. He looked like a man trying to command that stage, and to a great extent, he did.
The Republican Dana (1b79fa) — 9/17/2015 @ 4:12 amTrump is like the uncontrollable class clown acting out 24/7… apparently, a good many people consider that brash, beholden to no one, refreshing behavior. I don’t. I call it “unserious”.
Fiorina, Cruz and – to a lesser extent – Rubio and Bush came across well. Fiorina/Cruz for the win.
Colonel Haiku (436b69) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:16 am“i want a pina colada and it’s only 6 a.m.”
That very well could be the source of your problems, happyfeet.
Colonel Haiku (436b69) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:18 ami settled for coffee diet red bull and curry salad
and I’ll get me a latte over by the train
but i like pina coladas and i have half a brain
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:19 amWHAT policy specifically?
Gerald A (e1ec12) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:43 amEscape (teh Piña Colada Song)
I’ve grown tired of dead fetus, they have bored me too long
Like a worn-out recording, of a favorite song
So while Palin ain’t running, I’ll knock Carly instead
And if you think I hate womens, and I’m lonely in bed
“If you like Pina Coladas, and then catching a train
Colonel Haiku (436b69) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:43 amIf you’re into Thai pancakes, if you have half a brain
If you like blogging sh*t at midnight, or in the wee early times
If a huckleberry you look for, I have run out of rhymes”
I long for the days when journalists weren’t so impressed with their own roles in the process, where they think every question must expose a candidate’s hidden flaw or psychosis. If I were asking questions, every question would be “What is your position on ________?” Imagine the ways to fill in the blanks (Iran agreement, Syrian and Southern border migration, raising the debt ceiling, sequestration, religious accommodations, abortion, etc.), and imagine what the responses might tell us.
DRJ (521990) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:03 amColonel, that was truly epic. Fabulous!
And DRJ is right. It wasn’t a debate, of course. And that’s okay. With that many people, what can you do?
Give each of them 10 minutes. That’s it. Topic: why they should be President. No rebuttals, which are genuine two person debates. Heck, even spring some kind of question on them to guide their answers (foreign policy, health care, etc).
But if we did that, why would need the press?
Oh.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:28 amheh, Simon, hence the Luna rebellion of 2076, one comes to agree with Jefferson’s comments about the press,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:35 amNarciso, I’ll have to ask Prof.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:38 amKasich has no center. He will tell you whatever he feels you want to hear, and he’s good at it.
He may tell the squishy middle — or liberals holding their noses but accepting a Republican who jiggles like Jello — whatever it wants to hear, but any staunch conservative should never feel satisfied with his replies and gut reactions. As such, he’s the garden-variety antithesis to a non-filtered (but not Al-Sharpton leftist) person like Donald Trump. Enough of the public is apparently so tired of that dynamic, it presumably it the reason quite a bit of it continues to give the high-school-ish antics of Trump a nod over his rival candidates. That’s both a good and bad sign, a sign of our times in Obama’s (and Hillary’s or Bill’s) America.
Mark (26006c) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:08 amColonel Haiku (436b69) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:43 am
Well done, sir!
felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:08 amWhatever you might think about the event, consider replacing Fiorina with McConnell and Boehner. Would that have added something essential to the discussion, or would it have illustrated how deep a hole we’ve dug ourselves? Or would it be just the same?
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:10 amSorry but
Fiorina
Cruz
Christie
Cruz
ehhh Walker
… in that order.
Rand, Kasich, Bush, Trump, Huckabee, Carson did nothing to sway the American people.
Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:10 amFiorina
RUBIO
Christie
.
.
.
Sorry
Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:11 ammaybe he was listening to the ‘white album’
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/253948-mcconnell-tries-to-lower-gop-expectations-on-spending
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:26 amIf the explanation for Trump’s level of support is this that people want someone who doesn’t say what people want to hear, use focus groups to formulate their positions, avoid controversial stances, keep modifying their positions, care what the media thinks, apologize for who they are etc. etc. then Rand Paul should be well out in front.
Gerald A (e1ec12) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:36 am#311: narciso, I particularly like this:
I wonder if McConnell ever played a competitive sport at a reasonably high level. The other guys want to win as much as you do, but for most of us, that is reason competing is fun. For McConnell it appears to warrant a preemptive surrender.
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:36 amKasich is “for people who find Jeb too dramatic. ”
lol
Now that’s funny!
Mark Johnson (751494) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:37 amMcConnell wants to boost spending for reals?
in an election year?
and then here comes carly wanting to build a boatload of … boats
this people are stupid
happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:40 amactually the navy should be expanded, the chinese ones off the alaskan coast, should have been a clue, as have been other incidents with the russians in the med, off the east coast, and in the caribbean, to cite a few examples,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:47 amlast i heard the admiral bozos were pretty darn sure global warming was the biggest threat facing failmerica so the priority is greening the fleet
happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:52 amGerald A (e1ec12) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:36 am
Rand operates on libertarian principles: Live honestly and let others live honestly.
Trump draws on resentment: “Your problems are their fault!” It’s the mainstay of every demagogue. And can’t you see it here?
nk (dbc370) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:14 am301 WHAT policy specifically?
His policy of increasing the fraction of people who owned their own homes (instead of renting). This involved weakening traditional lending standards so people who could not qualify for a mortgage under the old standards could now do so and become first time homeowners.
But it turned out if you weaken the mortgage qualifications too much really bad things happen. For one thing the weakened standards applied to everyone. So you didn’t just get new homeowners buying houses they couldn’t afford you got existing homeowners buying more expensive houses (or doing cash out refinancing) that they couldn’t afford. And all the new demand (from easy mortgage money) triggered a housing bubble which fed on itself. And you got more and more fraud which the relaxed standards made easier. The process started under Clinton but reached disastrous proportions under Bush.
James B. Shearer (9d52b7) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:25 amThe Navy has almost as many Admirals (216 active duty) as commissioned ships (236, with another 181 in the non-commissioned, support and ready reserve force). We are either gearing up for a world war, or there are some economies that could be found.
Sadly, only the USS Constitution is a truly Green Ship. But the way forward is clear.
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:34 amWell that leaves out who were most involved in the standards relaxing, Cisneros Cuomo and reno, why is that?
narciso (6d1515) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:39 amAfter watching the debate, one thing that I noticed was that I just wasn’t finding a lot positive about Ted Cruz. It wasn’t what he said so much as, well, I don’t know, but I just didn’t get the feeling that a lot of people like this guy.
The Dana about to annoy our host (1b79fa) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:44 amJames also overlooks who controlled the House and Senate in those years leading up to the collapse. The names Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, and Frank come to mind as does their linkages to Fannie and Freddie.
Bush is to blame in the sense that he didn’t veto nearly enough, nor did he defend his accomplishments. He didn’t have the good sense to see that surrendering to the Democrats was viewed as an acknowledgement that they were correct after all. McConnell has the same failing.
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:46 amThanks, Simon and Felipe… happyfeets gets co-writing credit!
On the housing bubble, this was of interest: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-14/turns-out-the-housing-crisis-wasn-t-all-about-subprime
Colonel Haiku (436b69) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:19 am322 324
As I said the process started with Clinton. But when Bush came into office he didn’t say “gee this could be dangerous, let’s make sure things don’t get out of hand”. Instead he said in effect “gee this looks like a good idea, let’s have some more of it.”
Things got totally out of hand under Bush not Clinton. There was a sort of mass hysteria involved which infected a lot of people who should have known better but when you are President for 8 years you have some responsibility to prevent things like this (or at least not encourage them).
James B. Shearer (9d52b7) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:25 amRemember the exchange between Trump and Bush on Florida casinos?
Trump lied through his teeth
Not that it matters to his deluded fans.
Gerald A (e1ec12) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:50 am#326, JBS, add to the reductions in established mortgage standards already identified, the lack of a substantial down payment (traditionally 20%) verified as coming from accumulated savings or as a gift from parents or close relatives accompanied by a signed and notarized document specifying the gift money was not a loan and was not subject to repayment opened the door for borrowers to purchase homes for which they had no compelling stake in maintaining a record of timely payments or face losing their initial down payment as well as the right to occupy the home once in foreclosure.
No-or-little-money-down buyers could simply walk away if they couldn’t make the mortgage payments, or if declining real estate prices dropped to a level where they owed substantially more than the home was worth.
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:57 amI worked for a division of Freddie Mac.
Bush and McCain tried to stop the mortgage crisis in 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2007 snd each time they were stopped by Barney Frank in the Banking Committee.
Franks had a unanimous vote because the Democrats were getting loads of money from Fannie and Freddie and they threatened a filibuster that Bush and McCain knew they could not break.
luagha (8e37e4) — 9/17/2015 @ 11:00 amluagha’s statement at #329 is accurate and exonerates Bush for complicity in the mortgage crisis. He saw it coming and tried to prevent it. Barney Frank provided political cover while Franklin Raines (Bill Clinton’s budget director) looted FannyMae and FreddyMac. He and 2 assistant crooks took the fall.
AP Business Writer, March Gordon, reported:
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 11:36 amTrump didn’t lie about his efforts to open gambling casinos in Florida. Contrary to misleading talking points circulated by disreputable sources, Trump’s attempt to expand his NJ casino operations to Florida occurred prior to Jeb Bush’s election. Trump actively sought the right to operate in the Sunshine State during Lawton Childs’ tenure as governor and abandoned the effort after Jeb Bush won the Florida Statehouse. The following is from Businessweek:
”
New elected Florida Governor Jeb Bush opposed Trump’s casino developments even though Trump had raised considerable sums that helped Bush and other Florida Republican office seekers win elections.
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 11:56 amIf anyone lied about the issue during last night’s debate it wasn’t Donald Trump.
330.luagha’s statement at #329 is accurate and exonerates Bush for complicity in the mortgage crisis. …
Hard to see Bush as an innocent bystander when his administration was putting out stuff like this.
Which isn’t to say Bush was solely responsible, it was a bipartisan fiasco and Barney Frank was one of the more culpable Democrats.
James B. Shearer (9d52b7) — 9/17/2015 @ 12:04 pmRKS, #311. Yeah, about that. I think that Carson hurt himself badly and Trump lost a lot of maybe-types.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 12:04 pmI want to hear one of these candidates — Walker came close — call for the filibuster to go, and McConnell to resign if he won’t do it.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 12:06 pmMcConnell has the same failing.
McConnell is a captive of the Iron Law of Bureaucracy. His fealty is to the Senate, not the the nation, and certainly not to the GOP.
We see existential dangers looming, within and without. He sees the challenge as restoring comity and the sanctity of the Senate Rules.
At the very least, a point of order should be made about the Filibuster not applying to bills blocking Executive action. The Iran deal should really be blocked by a Senate majority anyway, and it used to be, before a truly awful SC decision, that a single house could block a regulation. The filibuster is an anachronism here.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 12:11 pmMcConnell thinks failmerica is just gonna have to raise spending
which is what that Grimes chick thought too
happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/17/2015 @ 1:03 pm#332, JBS, touche, you make an irrefutable point. Bush is not exonerated, he’s partly responsible, and I stand corrected. Thank you.
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 1:33 pmSaid a liar … “. But when Bush came into office he didn’t say “gee this could be dangerous, let’s make sure things don’t get out of hand”. Instead he said in effect “gee this looks like a good idea, let’s have some more of it.”
The bought and paid for House Dems stomped on reform proposals submitted by the Bush admin.
JD (3b5483) — 9/17/2015 @ 1:36 pmAfter hearing some of Trumpnoxous today on the radio, he has to be done. For crying out loud he has had plenty of time to deliver a little substance for his plan to make America great again. Put up or shut up – your time is running out. If Trump and Yeb dropped out the field would improve.
mg (31009b) — 9/17/2015 @ 2:34 pmi don’t like being exposed to Trump
i like how he embodies dissatisfaction with Team R
but he’s not a good person
but he’s better than Jeb
but he’s still really disgusting
happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:02 pmjeb reminds me of hopelessness suppuration mass death and fat women on motorized scooters
he’s just no bueno and the longer he’s in the race the more he makes it suck
happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:19 pmI don’t like Jeb. I despise Huckabee. I think Rand Paul is crazy. I’d vote for any of them over Trump, because I am sure none of them are going to stuff spaghetti up their nose at a state dinner. Can’t say that about Trump.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:22 pmthe difference for me is that i know the establishment GOPe candidates will go squish as soon as they’re in office, and screw me on everything, starting with amnesty.
i’m sure that Trump would do lots of things i don’t like too, but if he just fulfills his words on illegal aliens, that’s more than i will get for voting RINO in 2016…
advantage Trump.
redc1c4 (15039b) — 9/17/2015 @ 3:44 pmI am surprised Tapper didn’t ask any of the candidates if they had tried the new Doritos rainbow colored LGBT pride chips?
mg (31009b) — 9/17/2015 @ 4:03 pmCarly is a huge indecently fan girlish meghan’s coward daddy lover
She needs to be more open about that I think
Honesty, carlycakes
It’s just so key
happyfeet (2a41c4) — 9/17/2015 @ 4:44 pm“Bush and McCain tried to stop the mortgage crisis in 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2007 snd each time they were stopped by Barney Frank in the Banking Committee.”
Bawney Fwank forcing America to take it in the ass… oh, the insanity…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2015 @ 4:50 pmwhere do you think her boat-building fetish comes from
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:03 pmAnd don’t forget fom Chris dodd, the a a squire of countrywide, why I call that bill, Sutton/dillinger
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:07 pmFriend of mzilo, along with biden.
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:19 pmI find it very curious that JBS finds Bush responsible for the housing bubble simply because he was President during the run up to the crisis. And this despite the evidence as laid out by laugha and any number of articles on the fiasco. It is clear that JBS does not apply the same criteria to 6.67 years of feckless posturing by the current incumbent as he attempts to apply to Bush. I do believe we have reason to suspect the motives of JBS.
ropelight, I think you conceded that touché too quickly. Your opponent may not be playing by the same set of rules. Check the length of his foil.
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:51 pmWhat you posted proves Trump lied. Trump denied wanting any casinos in Florida at any time in the debate. Their argument had nothing to do with the timing of when he stopped trying to build a casino.
Bush: “He wanted casino gambling in Florida — ”
Trump: “I didn’t — ”
Bush: “Yes, you did.”
Trump: “Totally false.”
Bush: “You wanted it, and you didn’t get it, because I was opposed to — ”
Trump: “I would have gotten it.”
Bush: ” — casino gambling before — ”
Trump: “I promise, I would have gotten it.”
Bush: ” — during and after. I’m not going to be bought by anybody.”
Later, Bush added, “When he asked Florida to have casino gambling, we said no.”
Trump: “Wrong.”
In fact the timing of when he stopped trying to get a casino corresponds with Bush’s election. He was elected in 1998.
Further this quote you excerpted is part of a longer account from Bloomberg Business:
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:11 pmI’m really puzzled, and I wonder if ya’ll could help me out: Rubio has impressed me in both debates, and yet he doesn’t seem to be ranking in your eyes.
What do you feel he is missing?
aphrael (4eae3a) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:13 pmPerhaps it’s expectations: he performed well, but no better than was expected of him. Carly Fiorina wowed people, and is a newer face to most Americans, so her performance lifter her more.
The Dana who likes Marco Rubio, but doesn't think he's got much of a chance (1b79fa) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:16 pmRubio’s too-earnest cadence and general smarminess work against him i think
it’s the one-note faux-sincerity of high school forensics, and it’s his only note
he’s definitely the adrian grenier of this entourage
happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:22 pmbob, you’re instincts are correct, Bush could very well have been more culpable that I acknowledged, but since he was the president and should have been able to do more than he did to avoid the crisis, I’m unwilling to defend him now when he wouldn’t defend himself back then.
JBS made a tangential point and for now I have bigger fish to fry, I’d rather move-on to more current events than get bogged down in the sort of petty dispute better left up to historians with the inclinations and access to internal documents which might eventually produce reasonable results.
It’s possible to call my approach cowardly, but I could be wrong, and I’ve frequently been so in the past, and will surely be so again in the future, and am possibly wrong now, which is not likely but prudence requires I admit the the possibility – no matter how remote it may be.
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:24 pmRemember all that Christie pron from a while back? Why isn’t anyone fainting at the sight of more Christie pron? Oh, that’s right. Everyone figured out he doesn’t have a Conservative bone in his body.
And people, seriously, quit saying Trump is going to get those RINOs. Because those RINOs are further RIGHT on the spectrum than Trump.
John Hitchcock (53ebbf) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:45 pmThe biggest beneficiaries of the bailouts by far were the GSE’s. Much larger than any other entities.
The GSE’s loosened their lending standards in the late 90’s IIRC. That was at the heart of the mess. The Bush administration wanted to rein them in and were blocked.
The link JBS gave is unrelated to the GSE’s.
Under Obama the GSE’s are back to their old ways.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:48 pmaphrael @352, for me it was his duplicity on the gang of eight immigration bill that has permanently soured me on him. It wasn’t just that it was a bad bill. It was a number of things he said trying to sell the bill were demonstrable lies.
For instance he claimed the bill was not an immigration amnesty. Not only was it an immigration amnesty it was a perjury amnesty (signing an I-9 form under penalty of perjury that one can legally work in this country is a 5 year felony) and a document fraud amnesty (presenting false documents supporting one’s false claim that one can legally work in this country is a separate felony).
The reason why is that identity theft by illegal aliens falsifying their legal ability to work is not a victimless crime. Every year hundreds of thousands of Americans, mostly children because people hardly ever think to check their children’s credit records, get their identities stolen. They grow up to find that they have criminal records, huge credit card debt, IRS tax liens, etc.
This couldn’t happen without the IRS and the SSA aiding and abetting illegal immigration. The IRS does not care whether or not someone is illegally filing (or not filing) using a stolen SSN, as all they want is the money. So they will go after the individual who was legally issued the SSN unless and until that individual can prove that they aren’t the one who should pay the taxes. The SSA knows the name of the individual who is illegally using the SSN (illegal aliens typically commit what is called partial identity theft using their real name and the stolen number) but will not disclose that information to the defrauded individual.
So I don’t think the illegal aliens alone should be the ones to pay. But illegal aliens need to be held accountable for these crimes and no one including Rubio is interested in doing so. In fact, Rubio just glossed over this when he claimed the gang of eight bill wasn’t an amnesty. It clearly was an amnesty the only question being, how many amnesties was it?
Steve57 (506e39) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:00 pmYou are a good man, ropelight. I could read comments for years and not come across such humility!
felipe (56556d) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:04 pmTongue firmly in cheek, mg. Like Benjamin Franklin said, it’s easy to make a show of humility without ever acquiring the substance of it.
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:09 pmI’m really puzzled, and I wonder if ya’ll could help me out: Rubio has impressed me in both debates, and yet he doesn’t seem to be ranking in your eyes.
aphrael,
I like Rubio, but I don’t think he’s presidential material yet. He lacks sufficient experience (I have the same issue with Ctuz, btw). But I think he’d be an excellent VP choice for Fiorina or Walker. Maybe also Cruz. Would be for Bush, too, if not for the same-state problem and the fact that Bush can’t win it.
That being said, there are a lot of people who have immigration as a strong first issue who are unhappy at his openness to legalizing illegals. They don’t trust him. It’s a pretty strong wedge in the GOP Rubio burned himself badly on it.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:22 pmKevin M, had he merely been open about it I wouldn’t be so sour on the man. There is a lot more to my complaint about Rubio than that. It was the dishonesty.
Steve57 (506e39) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:44 pmTalk about dishonesty! You should have heard Rubio when he was running for the Senate. He came to the Naples, Florida VFA and talked the sort of talk he later declined to walk once he allied himself with John McCain to push comprehensive amnesty. Marco Rubio fooled me once and he won’t ever get a second chance.
ropelight (862cb9) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:53 pmHappyfeet used the word smarmy in relation to Rubio, and that is my reaction. (It was also the word I used for Joe Lieberman.) I think he tried to tell people what they want to hear.
kishnevi (28fa9f) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:04 pmAt the moment the candidate I feel best about is Fiorina, followed by Walker
“And then they don’t qualify for any federal benefits. This is an important point. No federal benefits, no food stamps, no welfare, no Obamacare.”
That’s how Rubio was selling the Gang of Eight Bill in April 2013. The fact Obamacare was included I found mighty interesting. As I recall repealing Obamacare was a GOP promise in the 2012 election. Yet as soon as the new congressional session opens Rubio is talking about Obamacare as if it’s something desirable, and illegal immigrants applying for his amnesty can’t have it.
It sure sounded to me like the GOP was resigned to it as a permanent program despite their 2012 promises. They wouldn’t lie to me, would they?
And now it’s something people should want?
More to the point, there was no way any of what Rubio was saying about provisional legal residents under his amnesty being barred from federal benefits that was true. Of course they were going to get Obamacare. Rubio kept up this schtick about no Obamacare for a long time after the Senate had already voted down a provision to deny illegal aliens coverage under Obamacare. And of course illegal immigrants were going to get the entire smorgasboard federal welfare benefits. They were getting them then, they’re getting them now, they’ll be getting them forever.
Hasn’t the term “anchor baby” become a fake issue in this campaign season? Families headed by illegal immigrants get these benefits through their children Unless we do something about that, we can not deny their American citizen children all the welfare that exists.
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-Native-Households
It was amazing that Rubio would say those words in front of God and everybody and expect anybody to believe him at the moment he was saying them. Former NY LT Governor Betsy McCaughey weighed in:
http://betsymccaughey.com/immigration-reform-becomes-a-welfare-welcome-wagon/
What Rubio was saying about his amnesty wasn’t even a lawyerly evasion.
But all that said, if it comes down to him or Hillary!, or him or the Socialist, or him or Sloe Joe Biden, I’ll vote for him.
Steve57 (506e39) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:06 pm