Patterico's Pontifications

6/26/2013

Mob Rule Kills Bill to Ban Late-Term Abortions in Texas

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:38 am



Disgusting:

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Despite barely beating a midnight deadline, hundreds of jeering protesters helped stop Texas lawmakers from passing one of the toughest abortion measures in the country.

As the protesters raised the noise to deafening levels in the Texas Senate chamber late Tuesday, Republicans scrambled to gather their colleagues at the podium for a stroke-of-midnight vote.

“Get them out!” Sen. Donna Campbell shouted to a security guard, pointing to the thundering crowd in the gallery overhead that had already been screaming for more than 10 minutes.

“Time is running out,” Campbell pleaded. “I want them out of here!”

It didn’t work. The noise never stopped and despite barely beating the midnight end-of-session deadline with a vote to pass the bill, Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst said the chaos in the chamber prevented him from formally signing it before the deadline passed, effectively killing it.

Here is a video of law enforcement trying to clear the gallery:

This is the kind of thing that causes good citizens to throw up their hands and lose faith in the system. The mob’s actions came after a filibuster of the bill by Wendy Davis of Fort Worth, who was supported in her efforts by Barack Obama’s Twitter account:

I want someone to ask Barack Obama whether he supports the bill being shouted down by a mob.

Gov. Perry should call another legislative session.

286 Responses to “Mob Rule Kills Bill to Ban Late-Term Abortions in Texas”

  1. Usually they just flee to another State. I guess this is an improvement, of sorts.

    JD (cff141)

  2. Wow, Justice Roberts wasn’t kidding when he said that vote suppression wasn’t what it looked like fifty years ago, was he?

    bridget (84c06f)

  3. Oh, Patterico. Lots of Americans are just fine with mobs—provided they agree with the mob.

    Even some posters here. Imagine a similar situation over trying to stop the immigration bill being signed. I think such a strategy would be awful, but I’ll bet many people wouldn’t mind.

    The ends seem to justify the means these days. Ugh.

    Simon Jester (d9cbe5)

  4. This is what Democracy looks like, Obama style.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  5. Comment by Simon Jester (d9cbe5) — 6/26/2013 @ 6:44 am

    Um, Simon, unless you are buying the MSM idea of grandmothers in T-shirts and jeans as an “angry mob,” or unless my memory is failing, I do not recall a mob-style shout-down of ObamaCare, the stimulus, TARP, or any of the rest. Which is to say, absent a showing that conservatives have done the same with partisan bills that fundamentally change the way America operates, please do not confuse baseless speculation with reality.

    bridget (84c06f)

  6. All in support of a woman’s right to kill.

    Jim (a96efa)

  7. Why does this vote have to come down to the end of a session at midnight. Its a joke. If they really wanted to pass it nothing would stop them

    Gil (a9ffe4)

  8. Gil – That would be due to a filibuster of a time-limited special session called by the governor.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. what you have in texas is a bunch of pandering evangelical hicks passing a law they know damn well is unconstitutional

    this was the best outcome they could have dreamed of really

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  10. Sheesh!

    ropelight (256a22)

  11. I thought that the bill would have banned most abortions after twenty weeks and would have mandated that abortion clinics meet the same standards as other clinics (e.g. a physician must have admitting privileges at a local hospital in case something goes wrong).

    If that is “unconstitutional” and the work of “evangelical hicks”, then we live in a really sad world.

    bridget (84c06f)

  12. Oh, no Bridget, not at all. Tea Party protesters are the best examples: they don’t shout people down, leave messes, commit crimes, and generally act like a mob.

    But what I am saying—and I don’t think I am wrong—is that IF folks on the Right did exactly the things the folks in the chamber in Texas did to prevent votes on things like the immigration bill, there would be many folks on the Right who would approve.

    And that’s not a good thing. Mob rule. mob veto. These are bad things for democracies. What I am saying is that such strategies need to always be wrong.

    I don’t want to see the Right become like the Left in this regard. Because evidence suggests that the Left literally doesn’t care about being inconsistent or hypocritical. Which is why, long ago, I called them “alphabetists”—they just care about “D” uber alles.

    I would love to be wrong.

    Simon Jester (d9cbe5)

  13. Mr. Feet, probably not wise to slam at people of faith in Texas. I’m just saying. Everyone knows your bigotry toward those with whom you disagree.

    Simon Jester (d9cbe5)

  14. I don’t want to see the Right become like the Left in this regard.

    There is nothing to suggest the Right will become tht which you fear they will. Past experience shows they don’t. And nothing in the current climate suggets otherwise.

    JD (cff141)

  15. what bigotry?

    i say let the hicks pass their fetal-idolatry law

    then what? the court will knock it down

    then we’ll all get to see the hicks pretend to be all butthurt

    it’s not a fun game for most people but if it keeps the hicks preoccupied what’s the harm

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  16. Of course Barack supports mob rule. Wait until the Zimmerman decision.

    Mike K (87eb3a)

  17. To be direct, Mr. Feet: how do you think Dana and DRJ feel about your cutesy patois? Frankly, you drive away people who posts are valued by many. Perhaps even you.

    Disagree all you like with people politically. However, you are quite rude toward decent and good people with whom you disagree.

    But no worries. People love you here and think you are cute and funny. God knows why.

    Simon Jester (d9cbe5)

  18. Not all of us Simon, not all of us.

    ropelight (256a22)

  19. I don’t get the hick fetal idolatry crap. What do you find objectionable about making sure a oration clinics are held to the same standards as other healthcare providers? Why would you think banning late term abortions with exceptions for the life of the mother to be contrary to the Constitution?

    JD (cff141)

  20. I gotta say, “oration clinics” is a pretty funny typo.

    Leviticus (b98400)

  21. lifeydoodle politics are very off-putting to many Mr. Jester

    however well-meaning lifeydoodles may be, their political antics cheapen and trivialize both our polity and christianity in equal measures I think

    onlookers wince and cringe, mostly in silence

    but it does all of us good I think to recall that limited government is limited government, and lifeydoodles are not on board with Team Limited Government when they try to pass silly fetal-glorification laws – in fact they make a complete hash of the whole idea of limited government

    they make a complete hash of the whole idea to where Team R is justifiably not taken seriously anymore when it speaks of limited government

    and there’s nothing wrong with letting that point of view be expressed in no uncertain terms

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  22. Mr. Feets, I’m reevaluating my prior assessment that you are a benign tumor on the body politic.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  23. the idea that our piteously inept and corrupt government should be in the business of holding “other healthcare providers” to any kind of standard is very very questionable I think, much less outpatient stuff like abortion

    but honestly

    the lifeydoodles don’t want to pass a law cause they’re concerned that a woman can’t get to a hospital if something goes wrong

    they don’t care about that

    you can tell cause they’ve shown no interest whatsoever in creating model private abortion clinics for to serve the women they pretend to care so so deeply about

    they just want to make it harder for abortion providers to operate

    The bill would … force many clinics that perform the procedure to upgrade their facilities and be classified as ambulatory surgical centers. Also, doctors would be required to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles — a tall order in rural communities.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  24. I wonder what would have happened if a mob inside the Supreme Court chambers had done the same thing this morning.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  25. i am not a tumor I just make comments on the internet Mr. 57

    I don’t know how to explain it but comments are NOT supposed to freak people out like what happens to Mr. Jester

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  26. Mr. Feets, can u ‘splain why the gub’mint should take a greater interest in what goes on in my restaurant’s kitchen than what goes on in an abortion clinic?

    It might prove amusing.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  27. it SHOULDN’T Mr. 57

    it needs to take a step back in about a billion different ways

    kitchens and clinics and pipelines and carbon dioxide molecules and nutritional supplements and cigarettes and cheese mites and a billion other things

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  28. Interaction with the gub’mint r.e. my kitchen:

    Me: That’s a dead fish I’m cutting up.

    Gub’mint: It sure is, and we’re watching how you’re doing it.

    Interaction with the gub’mint r.e. an abortion clinic:

    Me: That’s a dead baby you’re cutting up.

    Gub’mint: You need to shut up and get at least 100 feet away.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  29. “what you have in texas is a bunch of pandering evangelical hicks passing a law they know damn well is unconstitutional”

    Mr. Feets – I get it. You love unsafe abortions more than beans and pickles and could give fascist greasy azzed union thug President Obama a lesson or two in hateful rhetoric and divisiveness because of your staunchieness.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  30. Mr. Feets Staunchy Hymn:

    I don’t care if it rains or freezes
    long as I got my aborted fetus
    riding on the dashboard of my car

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  31. i hate unsafe abortions so much they make so mad

    but the best way to get rid of unsafe abortions is to have robust competition in the abortion market Mr. daley

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  32. If only those that disagree with abortion would set up a oration clinics ? Really ?!

    JD (cff141)

  33. it’s an outside of the box idea I admit Mr. JD

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  34. “but the best way to get rid of unsafe abortions is to have robust competition in the abortion market Mr. daley”

    Mr. Feets – Robust competition with no minimum health standards does not guarantee safety goofball. Climb down off the cross, we need the wood.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  35. Feets, who will have the gay babies once they can do a prenatal test for homosexuality? The very people you are ridiculing, and only them.

    BradnSA (69f417)

  36. Simon, before you assert that conservatives would support an angry mob shouting down someone with whom they disagree, let’s find an actual example of conservatives supporting an angry mob shouting down someone with whom they disagree.

    JVW (23867e)

  37. 31.i hate unsafe abortions so much they make so mad

    but the best way to get rid of unsafe abortions is to have robust competition in the abortion market Mr. daley

    Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/26/2013 @ 8:59 am

    Until the Catholic church establishes a new religious order that serves the Lord by providing safe abortions the USG will scrutinize the contents of my restaurant’s freezer more intently than any Planned Parenthood’s hazardous waste bin.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  38. One wonders why those who claim that pro-life people want to take us back to the days of back-alley abortions are so opposed to a statute which requires abortion clinics to be better than the back alleys. One wonders why our good friends on the left who bemoaned, with us, that Kermit Gosnell was a quack would be so opposed to a requirement that abortionists have hospital admitting privileges, i.e. not be quacks.

    The pro-life Dana (3e4784)

  39. Robust competition with no minimum health standards does not guarantee safety goofball.

    That’s not what Mr. Friedman says.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  40. I agree with bridget’s comments. Sad world, indeed.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  41. This will be resolved in another special session, and this time the DPS will have adequate security available.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  42. “let’s find an actual example of conservatives supporting an angry mob shouting down someone with whom they disagree.”

    – JVW

    How about the “Brooks Brothers Riot” in Miami-Dade in 2000? Conservatives supporting an angry mob shouting down someone with whom they disagree?

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  43. Mr feet wrote:

    but the best way to get rid of unsafe abortions is to have robust competition in the abortion market Mr. daley

    The notion of a safe abortion clinic is an oxymoron; two people go in, but only one comes back out alive.

    Howsomeever, Mr feet’s statement is part of the economic conundrum of the pro-abortion movement: abortion is inexpensive only due to the economies of scale made possible in the large, mass-production clinic environment. If you get competition, by which I assume Mr feet means more clinics, they all suffer economically, and must either raise their “unit price” or go out of business.

    That’s why I always refer to that side as pro-abortion rather than their insipid and inaccurate label of “pro-choice.” They must want to see a large number of abortions occur, because if there are not a large number, the clinics go out of business, and there is no availability of choice for most women.

    And, there is a final point: abortion is a stinking business, a totally repugnant practice, and very few gynecologists want to do abortions; they aren’t necessary for their financial well-being and they won’t burden their consciences and blacken their souls. To have competition, despite the other economic problems, you have to find a lot more physicians willing to perform abortions; that’s not an easy task.

    The pro-life Dana (3e4784)

  44. there’s no reason abortions have to be performed by doctors Mr. Dana – it’s not like you need a decade plus of education to do an abortion

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  45. Perry has to call another special session anyway because of the capital punishment bill, and this time Dewhurst needs to have better security.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  46. Democrats subverting the legislative process ?!
    Shirley, you must be kidding !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  47. Not only does “The pro-life Dana” make up his own meaning for the word “people”, instead of using the correct term “fetus” for the temporary occupant in the womb, but he also claims to be pro-life while simultaneously supporting, for example, our invasion of Iraq. The killing of innocent civilians does not seem to disturb him one iota; in fact, he supported this pre-emptive invasion from day one.

    Certainly Dana is entitled to his opinion, but he also begs an objection regarding his inconsistent application of the term “pro-life”, as well as calling a fetus a person.

    Gramps2 (a1a5e7)

  48. Cramps2 is Perry. And I have grown tired of this tacit acceptance of him flaunting Patterico’s rules a out multiple names and IP’s, to get around his being in moderation.

    JD (cff141)

  49. A fetus is actually a potential unicorn, right Perry?

    JD (cff141)

  50. Gramps2 supplies further proof he’s a malicious idiot.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  51. I wish Gramps2 was an actual Grandpa. At least then someone would have the prospect of buying a ’64 Chevy II to hotrod when the widow cleans out the garage, or maybe a Sauer drilling at an estate sale, in the foreseeable future.

    Alas, no good will come of Gramps2.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  52. “what you have in texas is a bunch of pandering evangelical hicks passing a law they know damn well is unconstitutional”

    Mr Feets is exactly right.

    The ways to minimize legal abortions is to:

    * Have ready access to free contraception;

    * have excellent counseling services available to pregnant women to encourage carrying to term;

    * have robust adoption placement facilities available;

    * or to change the Constitution to make the practice of abortion illegal subject to punishment.

    History teaches that the last option is not viable. Abortion by coat hanger will become the emergency abortion procedure once again.

    For a state like TX to pass a law which purposely violates the Constituton is unacceptable, in my view.

    Gramps2 (a1a5e7)

  53. is to are to

    Gramps2 (a1a5e7)

  54. lifeydoodle politics are very off-putting to many Mr. Jester

    however well-meaning lifeydoodles may be, their political antics cheapen and trivialize both our polity and christianity in equal measures I think

    You could have said the same about abolitionists. Or anyone agitating in Germany against the Holocaust (though such people would have been hauled away tout suite and not allowed to keep on cheapning and trivalizing the German polity and paganism).

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  55. Gramps2 supplies further proof he’s a malicious idiot.

    Perhaps I am, Steve, but I don’t debate by making malicious personal attacks, an obvious sign of immaturity and weakness.

    Gramps2 (a1a5e7)

  56. but it does all of us good I think to recall that limited government is limited government, and lifeydoodles are not on board with Team Limited Government when they try to pass silly fetal-glorification laws – in fact they make a complete hash of the whole idea of limited government

    The whole point of government is to protect people from being murdered, beaten, raped, kidnapped, or stolen from. A limited government means one that doesn’t do much more than that. A government that doesn’t do that has no business existing at all.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  57. So, Perry, you think our defeat of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan was immoral, because of the fact that innocent people died as collateral damage ?

    You’re kind of a sick man.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  58. Belay my last. Cramps2’s squawkings about what history teaches indicate there’d be nothing of enduring value at his estate sale. No decent Detroit iron, etc. And word to the wise; it’s always dangerous to buy used leather bondage apparatus.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  59. History teaches that the last option is not viable. Abortion by coat hanger will become the emergency abortion procedure once again.

    For a state like TX to pass a law which purposely violates the Constituton is unacceptable, in my view.

    You think requirements to make abortion clinics safe would be unconstitutional? You think banning the killing of viable life is unconstitutional? Who is the extremist here?

    How was Gosnell any different than a coat hanger? This is what you are advocating.

    JD (b63a52)

  60. Perhaps I am, Steve, but I don’t debate by making malicious personal attacks, an obvious sign of immaturity and weakness.

    No. You just lie. Ignore rules. Flaunt rules. Use stealth and deception to avoid banning. Try to get people in trouble at work for their political views.

    JD (b63a52)

  61. Mr feet wrote:

    there’s no reason abortions have to be performed by doctors Mr. Dana – it’s not like you need a decade plus of education to do an abortion

    Oh, so you do support the back alley abortionist; you should have been more explicit earlier.

    The Dana who realized what Mr feet was saying (3e4784)

  62. How about the “Brooks Brothers Riot” in Miami-Dade in 2000? Conservatives supporting an angry mob shouting down someone with whom they disagree?

    Um, no. That was angry people doing their best to prevent a serious crime — effectively a coup d’etat — from taking place right in front of their faces. What else could they have done?

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  63. abortion is inexpensive only due to the economies of scale made possible in the large, mass-production clinic environment. If you get competition, by which I assume Mr feet means more clinics, they all suffer economically, and must either raise their “unit price” or go out of business.

    That’s not how the market works for any other product or service. Why would it do so here? A totally free market in hit-men would be more likely to produce safer conditions (for the clients) than any law could do; feets is right about that.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  64. How is the Texas bill unconstitutional? Roe v Wade limited abortions after viability, and so does the Texas bill. Abortion is still allowed after 20 weeks in some cases, such as the health of the mother or severe fetal abnormality.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  65. That’s why I always refer to that side as pro-abortion rather than their insipid and inaccurate label of “pro-choice.” They must want to see a large number of abortions occur, because if there are not a large number, the clinics go out of business, and there is no availability of choice for most women.

    Yes, you’re right there. Dropping demand usually means lower prices, but if the demand for any product goes down low enough, the price has to rise, or else it will stop being provided altogether.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  66. And, there is a final point: abortion is a stinking business, a totally repugnant practice, and very few gynecologists want to do abortions; they aren’t necessary for their financial well-being and they won’t burden their consciences and blacken their souls. To have competition, despite the other economic problems, you have to find a lot more physicians willing to perform abortions; that’s not an easy task.

    Again, very true. Though rising prices would induce more doctors who are on the margin to sell their souls and join the market.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  67. How is the Texas bill unconstitutional? Roe v Wade limited abortions after viability, and so does the Texas bill. Abortion is still allowed after 20 weeks in some cases, such as the health of the mother or severe fetal abnormality.

    They won’t answer that, DRJ. They are just repeating leftist pablum. Killing babies is “sacred ground” for Perry and Pelosi.

    JD (b63a52)

  68. 55.

    Gramps2 supplies further proof he’s a malicious idiot.

    Perhaps I am, Steve, but I don’t debate by making malicious personal attacks, an obvious sign of immaturity and weakness.

    Comment by Gramps2 (a1a5e7) — 6/26/2013 @ 9:54 am

    Umm, no. The thing about formal and informal logical fallacies is that they aren’t always false. For instance in your case take the ad hominem. Once every single objective basis upon which you purport to base your opinion has been debunked, you become the focus.

    I look forward to you continuing to debase yourself in this regard.

    XOXOXO

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  69. Mr feet wrote:

    there’s no reason abortions have to be performed by doctors Mr. Dana – it’s not like you need a decade plus of education to do an abortion

    Well, that’s true enough, just like you don’t have to be a licensed electrician to wire a house. But we restrict surgical procedures to surgeons for the rather obvious reason that if something goes wrong, there is someone (supposedly) competent there to handle the situation. (I s’pose Kermit Gosnell proved the fallacy of that argument.)

    The not so sarcastic Dana (3e4784)

  70. The man with Richard Nixon’s middle name wrote:

    abortion is inexpensive only due to the economies of scale made possible in the large, mass-production clinic environment. If you get competition, by which I assume Mr feet means more clinics, they all suffer economically, and must either raise their “unit price” or go out of business.

    That’s not how the market works for any other product or service. Why would it do so here? A totally free market in hit-men would be more likely to produce safer conditions (for the clients) than any law could do; feets is right about that.

    Actually, it is how the market works, for everything: the price being charged cannot be lower than the costs of production for very long, or the business goes out of business.

    Abortion in this country is a strange business: with the restricted availability of clinics, they could charge more, but because they want to keep killing babies, do try to keep the prices lower, to give them more babies to kill. An economist might say that they are keeping the prices low enough to discourage competition, because their margins are not great, but I would guess that economics is not the sole concern of abortionists.

    The economist Dana (3e4784)

  71. Here we go…

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  72. insert leftist pablum here

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  73. Mob rule pretty much sums up Obama’s philosophy.

    Notice how much the Democrats think screaming is argument.

    SPQR (60ba58)

  74. Perry doesn’t make malicious personal attacks, OJ didn’t do it, Slick Willy didn’t have sexual relations with that woman, Stimulus will jump-start the economy, ObamaCare won’t increase health care costs one dime, Eric Holder didn’t read the reports he signed, the Benghazi attack was triggered by a video tape, and White House officials had nothing to do with the IRS targeting Obama’s political opposition even though they talked about it hundreds of times.

    ropelight (256a22)

  75. The screamers and shouters certainly didn’t want the legislators to facillitate their own choices about the bill.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  76. Actually, it is how the market works, for everything: the price being charged cannot be lower than the costs of production for very long, or the business goes out of business.

    True, but unfettered competition will eventually drive the price down to just above the cost of production. Provided there’s enough demand, that is.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  77. Oh, and Nixon’s middle name was Milhous, no E on the end.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  78. It’s actually frightening, when you see the whole video.

    If the governor doesn’t call for another vote, he’s a wuss.

    Patricia (be0117)

  79. Looks like democracy got aborted last night.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  80. Happyfeet – care to explain what is so unconstitutional about it then?

    JD (cff141)

  81. “That’s not what Mr. Friedman says.”

    Mr. Feets – Maybe wimmins seeking bortions just don’t care about safety which is why we get Gosnells and those Maryland clinics what were shut down so what Mr. Friedman says had nothing to do with what you said.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  82. “Happyfeet – care to explain what is so unconstitutional about it then?”

    JD – Mr. Feets is saying wimmins are too stupid to be expected to make up their minds over whether to keep a baby after only 20 weeks of pregnancy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  83. It is so strange how people accept regulations of and limitations to Constitutional rights (i.e., yelling ‘fire!’ in a crowded theatre, waiting periods for gun purchases, the right to assemble as long as it does not violate the fire code, and so on and so on) yet when it comes to the “right” to abortion, they refuse to accept any similar regulations or limitations.

    A fifteen year old girl needs a note from her parent giving the “ok” for pierced ears, yet if the same girl wants an abortion, many pro-choicers blow a gasket about how parental notification laws are some great violation of the Constitution. Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  84. it’s unconstitutiony cause of it is designed to severely curtail access to abortion I think Mr. JD

    plus defining viable at just over 20 weeks is silly

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  85. mob rule is no fun when only one side mobs

    not a good ending

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  86. unconstitutional lifeydoodle flat earth anti-science crazy talk

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  87. mister twinkletoes, how is having an abortion during the first five months the same as “severly curtailing access to abortion during the first five months” ?

    if most people don’t get around to doing something during five months time, then they’re likely too lazy to do it, anyhow or whatevers

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  88. Simon Jester #3,

    It’s because liberals know conservatives don’t use these tactics that they feel free to use them. They would think twice about doing this if they thought we’d treat them the same way.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  89. the curtailings come more in the draconian new facility regulations Mr. Stone

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  90. Dr. happyfeet,

    When are fetuses viable in your medical judgment?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  91. Me personally I think we should encourage people to have their abortions as early as possible but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, and nobody wants to go to an abortion clinic what has a lot of flies buzzing around

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  92. Heaven forbid they be clean, sterile, or staffed by trained personnel. EEK!

    JD (236303)

  93. Because even medical bioethicists have trouble deciding the date of viability.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  94. Well that’s sick.

    Later-term abortions are brutal. There’s every reason to believe late-term fetuses and neonates (and children generally) are more sensitive to pain than adults are.

    Of course, that doesn’t stop people from toturing children by genitally mutilating them, of course, but late-term abortions should be among the things abolished.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  95. every fetus is special and viable in their own unique way I think DRJ

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  96. mister twinkletoes, did you have your logic aborted in the first trimester, or the second, or the third ?
    my guess is that an ultrasound would show there was no conception of logicdoodle logic in the first place.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  97. happyfeet,

    As for those “draconian” facility regulations, they require abortion doctors use facilities equivalent to outpatient surgical centers and have hospital privileges so they can treat patients who have problems in a hospital setting (within 30 miles).

    If you were having outpatient surgery, I’m sure you would expect to be treated at an outpatient surgery center by a doctor who can also treat you in a hospital if there are problems. Why do you want to deny this level of care to women?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  98. happyfeet,

    You are a man, aren’t you? Why are you against treating women outpatient surgery patients with the same level of care that men are treated?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  99. Mob Rule?
    What happened to the TX tradition of dealing with mobs?
    One Mob, One Ranger!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  100. hey now you guys don’t make ME the bad guy here

    i just want everyone to be free to make their own choices

    and i want Team R to focus on importanter things

    and I want Team R Texas Division to stop giving the Hillary campaign little lifeydoodle presents

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  101. DRJ asked:

    If you were having outpatient surgery, I’m sure you would expect to be treated at an outpatient surgery center by a doctor who can also treat you in a hospital if there are problems. Why do you want to deny this level of care to women?

    Because, regardless of how much the pro-abortion people whine about a return to back alley abortion if restrictions are passed, they totally support back alley abortion.

    For the pro-abortion forces, any restrictions on abortion, for age, consent, waiting periods, cleanliness of clinics, access to emergency care, or a requirement to have good magazines to read in the waiting room are the Jackboot Of Tyranny.

    The realistic Dana (3e4784)

  102. I think the appearance of reason is just BS for some.
    Some people want what they want because they want it, and they really don’t care about the reasoning except when it can look like it justifies what they want anyway.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  103. Perry should call a Special Session to deal with this matter, and make sure that there is suitable security on-site!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  104. DRJ,

    This is the whole farce of the pro-choice arguments. They want the procedure to be protected by the umbrella of “it is a health decision” and “it is between me and my doctor,” yet they seemingly now won’t concede that the facilities should be subject to regulations just as any other medical facility.
    On the other hand, if a pro-choice woman walked into a dentist’s office and saw rats running around on the floor, she’s probably gonna report it to the state as a violation of the health code.

    A fifteen year old girl needs a note from mommy or daddy giving the “ok” for a pierced ear done by someone who is not even a trained doctor, but the pro-choicers think it is “too draconian” if the same is required of a slightly more complex surgery (abortion) that is done by a trained doctor.

    And these are the same people who often scream that the right to bear arms should be regulated, and agree that the right to free speech has limitations (yelling ‘fire!’ in a crowded theatre, for example) and that the right to assemble must not violate the fire code for a particular building, et al.

    Yet when it comes to the “right” to abortion, there are zero regulations or limitations that they will concede.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  105. A significant limit on late-term abortions is reasonable. It should be based on the pain felt by the fetus.

    It is totally not right for adults to create a being through an act of pleasure on their part, and have it killed, painfully, without not even an opportunity for life-pleasure 1. There’s something very wrong about that.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  106. The Left is nothing if not inconsistent.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  107. Well the right is inconsistent too, askeptic.

    They want a limit on late-term abortion (good) because the fetus feels pain, and then they want to cut their born-child’s genitals (not good at all; quite the opposite of good).

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  108. Former Conservative, friend, your focus on circumcision (sp ?)is a little strange.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  109. It shouldn’t be strange, Elephant Stone. What is strange is doing that to babies.

    But it does highlight a core inconsistency. Conservatives, as I just said, oppose late-term abortions, with a major argument being the pain the fetus feels. Well, then they (most of them, as well as too many liberals and others) cut their newborns’ penises — removing the most sensitive part of it in a torturous fashion.

    That’s more than a little strange.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  110. happyfeet,

    Would a “bad guy” describe people who disagree with him on abortion policy as “a bunch of pandering evangelical hicks passing a law they know damn well is unconstitutional”?

    Why, yes, I think that’s exactly what a bad guy would do.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  111. That might could’ve been expressed differently

    happyfeet (7b8832)

  112. I can see the equivalence in the mind of a lifelong former concerned christian conservative:

    circumcision = death

    Pure comedy gold.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  113. circumcision = death

    It’s torture.

    There’s nothing funny about it. It’s sick that you could even think there is.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  114. happyfeet,

    The irony is that people who believe like you do are welcome in Texas but people who believe like I do aren’t welcome in California. So who are the real hicks?

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  115. I say that because the vote here was 19-10, so arguably 2/3 believe in some limits on abortion and 1/3 don’t. And while the gallery in this vote was reprehensible, the Senators involved were serious and respectful toward other opinions in discussing this issue. Can you say the same about California, happyfeet?

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  116. Oh, good grief, now we’re going to get in a fight over circumcision? Inoculations hurt, too; wanna ban them?

    The amazed Dana (3e4784)

  117. well, the real hicks are still the people what try to get the religion all up into the politics

    that’s just not something that properly socialized people do

    that’s what mama and daddy taught me

    but you’re completely welcome here in california I promise promise promise and if anybody makes you feel otherwise I’ll have a talk with them

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  118. i don’t think circumcision should be banned but it shouldn’t be the default option anymore

    it makes no sense and god knows what hospitals charge for that these days

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  119. Look, a circumcised squirrel!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. Well the right is inconsistent too, askeptic.

    They want a limit on late-term abortion (good) because the fetus feels pain, and then they want to cut their born-child’s genitals (not good at all; quite the opposite of good).

    When did this become “conservative” ?!

    JD (dfa6a6)

  121. circumcision = death

    It’s torture.

    This ought to be entertaining.

    JD (dfa6a6)

  122. SMEGMA

    JD (ff5edf)

  123. DRJ and any other other Texans who care to comment–

    Allowing for the clear emotion of the issue on both sides–including the well publicized filibuster which had been in the news all day–do you think the vote could/should have been handled any way differently by the Senate and the Lt. Governor? The combo of the well known midnight deadline, the performance of pink tennis shoe lady, and allowing the increasing chaos in the gallery seems to me to be something that could have been managed better. We from IL have been sort of led to expect more competence from pols in the Lone Star State. :)

    elissa (1aa61b)

  124. Dewhurst was just being the competent true conservative non-establishment outsider that he is known to be.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  125. I call it the Gosnell filibuster, that’s what they want to let happen.

    narciso (3fec35)

  126. Mr. narciso you have a wicked and impertinent tongue

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  127. 44.Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 6/26/2013 @ 9:24 am

    there’s no reason abortions have to be performed by doctors Mr. Dana – it’s not like you need a decade plus of education to do an abortion

    You really don’t need that for any kind of surgery, although you do need skill.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Waldo_Demara

    While at the Brothers of Christian Instruction, he became acquainted with a young doctor named Joseph C. Cyr.[5] That led to his most famous exploit, in which he masqueraded as Dr. Cyr, working as a trauma surgeon aboard HMCS Cayuga, a Royal Canadian Navy destroyer, during the Korean War. He managed to improvise successful major surgeries and fend off infection with generous amounts of penicillin. His most notable surgical practices were performed on some sixteen Korean combat casualties who were loaded onto the Cayuga. All eyes turned to Demara, the only “surgeon” on board, as it became obvious that several of the casualties would require major surgery or certainly die. After ordering personnel to transport these variously injured patients into the ship’s operating room and prep them for surgery, Demara disappeared to his room with a textbook on general surgery and proceeded to speed-read the various surgeries he was now forced to perform, including major chest surgery. None of the casualties died as a result of Demara’s surgeries.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  128. And you can find case after case of that sort of thing.

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/0070443904

    Salesman Surgeon: The Incredible Story of an Amateur in the Operating Room by William MacKay

    What does require some special education and training is anesthesia.

    Surgery is just a skill that can be learned independently of most medical knowledge, just like drawing blood.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  129. Feeling pain is really proof of consciousness.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  130. Comment by The economist Dana (3e4784) — 6/26/2013 @ 10:15 am

    the price being charged cannot be lower than the costs of production for very long, or the business goes out of business.

    http://www.overstock.com

    Actually, I think you get better prices at http://www.ebay.com

    Ebay has still not yet gone out of business, although much of what is sold there is below the cost of production (at least with distribution figured in)

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fujifilm-FinePix-S3000-3-2-MP-Digital-Camera-Silver-working-exc-/310693484099?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item4856c65643

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  131. the real hicks are still the people what try to get the religion all up into the politics
    Comment by happyfeet (c60db2)

    I’ll just say that I’m tired of being called names by you feets.

    Anybody whose religion is conveniently pushed aside when it is troublesome really doesn’t believe what they say they do.

    My mother and father did not teach me this, I learned it myself in the process of becoming an adult.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  132. I never do anything God tells me to, happyfeet. I don’t like babies to be killed because it’s ugly and sickening and if babies don’t have a right to live nothing does.

    nk (875f57)

  133. Power to the people. Notice… most of the legislators are men, most of the protestors are women. What does that tell you?

    Truth (cb9ecd)

  134. Men are more sensible and compassionate than women.

    nk (875f57)

  135. It tells me that “truth” is mendoucheous.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  136. Power to the people, unless they vote contrary to what a leftist desires.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  137. Of course Moron in charge – (Creationist) Gov. Perry orders another legislative session so he can implement his religious agenda to force conservative will upon the women of the state. Men subjugating women, that’s what religion in TX is all about.

    Theonly societies in the world that ban abortion rights are Muslim theocracies like the Taliban and the Vatican. American religious conservatives are no better. Careful of the company you keep.

    Gov. Perry, git yur gun and go back to your hunting lodge at Nigger Head. Maybe one of your friends will pull a Dick Cheney on you.

    Truth (cb9ecd)

  138. “Truth” is a living breathing oxymoron, that apparently does not care about women. Nobody is banning abortion rights, unless you define them to be unlimited unregulated free at any point in time including after birth.

    It is also intent on throwing out every faux racist Taliban conservative nonsense it has ever read at ThinkRegress. You forgot Hitler, clown.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  139. Wishing death on people it disagrees with is part of the new CIVILITY

    JD (bdb1b0)

  140. Time for the ‘Billy Madison’ JD.

    narciso (3fec35)

  141. That would be an insult to Billy Madison.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  142. Maybe TX could start forcing women to submit to men like the Bible order them to.

    Regressive TX. Teaching creationism in schools and now … back the the days of clothes hanger abortions?

    Yea, I think TX should secede.

    Truth (cb9ecd)

  143. ZOMFGWTFBBQ – Truth is arguing FOR back alley coat hanger abortions.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  144. Alright ‘Brawndo, electrolytes’

    narciso (3fec35)

  145. This is just surreal

    JD (bdb1b0)

  146. Oh yeah, these POSs are pro-abortion. They want abortions done.

    nk (875f57)

  147. Mr. nk abortions are no good but it’s good for people make their choices

    god wanted everybody to make their own choices I think

    this is why he invented naked women apples and gardens

    fast forward a whole bunch and you see that individual liberty is the most important underpinning of what america was supposed to have been

    and that means people will do some stuff what you might not be personally comfortable with

    it’s like how Fresh n Easy has those gay parking spots up front for hybrids

    I think Fresh n Easy has absolutely every right to offer gay parking spots up front for hybrids

    but people what actually choose to use them are douchebags and i hate them

    but I wouldn’t do anything to change any of it

    and that is the story about the choices

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  148. With the advent and perfection of birth control pills and even more recently with the apparent effectiveness and availability of morning after pills I genuinely fail to understand why there are still so many millions of unwanted pregnancies which are terminated through abortion. If you had told me twenty years ago that this would still be an issue of crisis proportions and still tearing our nation apart I’d have said you were nuts. I’d have said that by 2013 abortions would be almost as unusual and unnecessary as a horse and buggy in this day and age. Why is this never talked about?

    elissa (1aa61b)

  149. Except in your version, the babies aborted late term get no choice.

    JD (b63a52)

  150. Safe legal and rare is now a war on women. Back alley on demand for free whenever we want is the new standard.

    JD (b63a52)

  151. no they get the short end of the choice stick

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  152. Oh, they get stuck

    JD (b63a52)

  153. but you have to think of all the late term babies what *don’t* get aborted

    there’s more than you can shake a stick at

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  154. Down here, after a supposed voter purge, they sent someone an absentee ballot, small problem she had passed on three years earlier, nothing makes any sense.

    narciso (3fec35)

  155. Truth – National Journal poll shows majority of women opposed to late term abortions. How does that square with your histrionics?

    JD (bdb1b0)

  156. FC, circumcision is not an across-the-board belief by Christians, so take-a-hike on that one.
    BTW, why are you such an Anti-Semite?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  157. askeptic – he hearts SMEGMA. It’s a thing.

    JD (b63a52)

  158. Dewhurst was just being the competent true conservative non-establishment outsider that he is known to be.

    Yes that’s why he asked Perry for another special session on July 1st.

    E.PWJ (bdd0a6)

  159. Comment by elissa (1aa61b) — 6/26/2013 @ 3:25 pm

    From my experience, many people have adult bodies and minds that are still doing childhood magical thinking-
    if I don’t think about it, it is not there-
    somehow the problem will take care of itself-
    responsible, who, me?

    It shows that sometimes we learn only by negative consequences,
    and the lack of need to be responsible for taking care of a baby means there is less need to avoid getting pregnant
    children are a blessing, not a punishment,
    but caring for them is a responsibility that many people are not ready for/interested in

    anyone know what the abortion rates are in Europe?
    I’m sure I could look it up, but I’m not going to
    but it would be interesting to know if Europeans are able to plan ahead to avoid becoming pregnant

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  160. Despite his constant petulant whining about obstruction and civility, Teh Won tweeted out his support for filibustering and mob rule last night.

    JD (b63a52)

  161. i read posts from Truth
    i hear Tomlin’s Edith Ann
    and fart noise she made

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  162. democRATS shout down
    have no respect for order
    or civility

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  163. Perry just called a new special session starting July 1st–he might want to call out the Rangers, given the proven tendency of that state’s Democrats to run like cowards whenever they might lose a vote. And someone’s going to need a bigger bladder if they want to filibuster this time.

    MSE (c249e1)

  164. unruly womyns
    like flies to a steaming pile
    come Kliffs of teh world

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  165. ALL expectant liberal womyn should abort whenever the mood strikes them. The Darwin Principle in action!

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  166. This is why Dewhurst lost to Cruz. Because he is a lying sack of crap. That race did so much damage to his reputation that the carnage is irreversible. His career in Texas is over. Abbot is the heir apparent to Perry or Cornyn. And everyone knows it.

    Bets (717964)

  167. JD–those poll figures to which you refer from National Journal are important, and people from all sides of the issue and from both parties should stop and take heed. Women who strongly support the legality of early term abortion do not feel the same about late term abortion and want it banned. Women who bear the babies instinctively know that for most there is a huge psychological change that occurs around 20 weeks when the baby bump shows and it becomes ever more certain through tests, etc. that the baby inside is viable and healthy. There are a few, but only a few reasonable arguments to be made that by that time (20 weeks) a surprise, incestuous, unwanted or dangerous pregnancy could not already be safely terminated. I actually had hopes for the Texas bill because I thought it made sense. HotAir blog has many more details on the NJ poll.

    I bring this up, also, because it would be nice if the Republican platform people in 2016 took a look at this poll before they write the next/same old platform language allegedly on my behalf and want me and many other ladies to support it.

    elissa (1aa61b)

  168. Gov perry is calling a new session.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  169. Good on Gov. Perry!

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  170. It has been some time since we have had an infestation of lifelong former concerned christian conservative penis protectors on this site.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  171. 161-He did? Would you mind showing me the tweet in which (I assume you mean President Obama) “Teh Won” supported “mob rule”?

    Ian G. (b2d693)

  172. “Truth” has an incorrect nickname. It should be “ViolentExtremist”.

    SPQR (768505)

  173. “Wonderful things happening in Austin tonight.”

    – Barcky 0bama

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  174. “Wonderful things happening in Austin tonight.”

    I guess in leftist world, this means he was supporting someone’s first amendment rights

    JD (b63a52)

  175. teh Laughingstock of the Free Entire World…
    #standwithwindy

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  176. Ah. So he didn’t actually say what you accused him of saying. Got it.

    Ian G. (b2d693)

  177. One wonders if someone tried the same tactics against amnesty or Obamacare would he be so congratulatory.

    narciso (3fec35)

  178. everyone hates obama cause of what a suck-ass president he is

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  179. The only things of note happening in Austin last night were the filibuster and Dem mobs. What else do you think he was referring to?

    JD (b63a52)

  180. How many names, do you plan on using, “Ian” ?

    JD (b63a52)

  181. “Ach… something special is happening in Auschwitz tonight.”

    #StandWithAdolf

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  182. He was talking about the Cowboy Junkies local appearance, JD…

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  183. Youse definitely “got it”, Ian G.

    and you can keep it.

    Colonel Haiku (5b5d3b)

  184. elissa #123,

    The special session involved 3 issues — the abortion bill, a juvenile justice bill that addresses a problem with capital punishment penalties for 17-year-old defendants, and a highway transportation bill. I think most people agree that the latter 2 bills are the more important legislation, because they involve matters that need to be resolved. The abortion bill is also a high priority (that’s why Perry designated it as part of the special session) but in theory it doesn’t have to be addressed, unlike the other matters.

    As for the abortion bill (SB 5), the Senate initially passed SB 5 and sent it to the House. The House deliberations, amendments, and approval lasted until Sunday, leaving the Senate 3 days (until Tuesday, when the special session ended) to approve the House version of the bill. My understanding is that 3 days is the minimum amount of time needed to complete the process.

    Thus, while I’m not very happy with last night’s security decisions by the Senate leadership, the last minute aspect of this vote isn’t the Senate’s fault since it only had 3 days to complete the legislative process. (Nor do I consider it the House’s fault since the House committee hearings included testimony and comments from over 500 people.) Having said that, I’m sure both bodies will move more promptly on all the legislation in the second special session — something that should be easier since the text of the bills has been finalized — and I also suspect both the House and Senate leadership will be more proactive about security in the Capitol.

    Finally, I still expect the Texas legislature to initially spend significant time addressing the juvenile justice bill and the highway bill. As much attention as this abortion issue has received, it’s not the most important item on the Legislature’s agenda.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  185. If happyfeet blames “hicks” for legislation putting term limits on abortion, then he/she/it must think that various Western European nations are run by “hicks”. France: 12 weeks. Germany: first trimester. Netherlands: 21 weeks.

    pst314 (ae6bd1)

  186. Happyfeet: Jefferson Davis fought for a White Man’s Right To Choose [whether or not to treat black people as human beings.]

    pst314 (ae6bd1)

  187. elissa #148,

    I think some women avoid contraceptives because they think they make them fat. I guess they’d rather risk a pregnancy and an abortion than get fat.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  188. DRJ–Thank you for taking the time to explain all this. I appreciate it. It’s quite interesting to observe the machinations of legislation. I think a good understanding process is important, as is preparing for the unexpected.

    elissa (1aa61b)

  189. You have a better feel for politics than I do, elissa, but one unusual feature of the Texas legislative process if that only the Governor can call the Texas Legislature into special session and he can do it as many times as he wants. The Governor also sets the agenda for the special session. So if Perry and the GOP legislative leaders want to do this, they will do it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  190. it’s not just term limits Mr. pst it’s also a bunch of silly and draconian clinic regulations

    but it’s not my problem really other than it’s a nice and senseless boost for Hillary, which I find kind of annoying if you must know

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  191. Could you describe the draconian clinic regulations?

    JD (bdb1b0)

  192. Could you describe the draconian clinic regulations?

    Comment by JD (bdb1b0)

    The head must have completely crowned before the brains are sucked out…

    Colonel Haiku (86efc5)

  193. “Could you describe the draconian clinic regulations?”

    You must wash or sterilize medical instruments before using them on another patient.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  194. happyfeet,

    By my count, there are over 425 ambulatory (outpatient) surgery centers in Texas and 90 birthing centers that meet the “draconian” requirements of basic surgical care that you find objectionable. What I find both surprising and objectionable is that abortion clinics aren’t required to meet the same basic standards required of other outpatient clinics. It’s high time we fixed that.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  195. It is not a “draconian” requirement that abortion clinics be treated like all other ambulatory surgical centres.

    In any other context, liberals would be irate that women were being treated at substandard facilities.

    It is not “anti choice” to ask that women kindly refrain from hiring someone to stab their unborn baby in the head with a fork.

    It is not “anti woman” to oppose abortion, nor is such the province of religious hicks.

    bridget (84c06f)

  196. Well Gosnell didn’t bother with any of those regulations, and he wasn’t bothered for 18 years, by a Governor utterly unconcerned with lifeydoodles,

    narciso (3fec35)

  197. A majority of women in recent polling are against late term abortion. Women are anti-women, and perpetuating the war against women, apparently.

    JD (b63a52)

  198. DRJ, I am glad you are posting this information, but you will find that many people don’t care one iota about facts. It’s all Teh Narrative™. Facts don’t matter.

    The ends justify the means.

    Jonah Goldberg’s book was spot on.

    Simon Jester (9d6fbc)

  199. If happyfeet blames “hicks” for legislation putting term limits on abortion, then he/she/it must think that various Western European nations are run by “hicks”.

    People like him are schizoid.

    He gets giddy over the idea of same-sex marriage, but then said that, by contrast, people involved in polygamous marriages are trailer trash, or hicks, or something like that.

    I still recall his becoming indignant when legislators in Florida were scrutinizing late-term abortions, implying that was inappropriate, morbid or exploitative curiosity.

    But I’m less bothered by folks like happyfeet — who’s kind of a peculiar blend of libertarianism sprinkled with leftist and rightist sentiment — than I am by flat-out liberals, because libertarianist liberals at least don’t fall for the notion that they’re imbued with great compassion, generosity and wonderful humanity.

    Mark (67e579)

  200. I remind you, DRJ, that Bill Clinton signed DOMA into law. Hilary was on record supporting DOMA. I believe that there are some cool speeches of hers on YouTube about this.

    But notice that no one is bringing up the disconnect? The Clinton’s congratulated the majority opinion! Even though—again—they supported DOMA just a few years ago.

    Ah, that’s evolution. I guess.

    Simon Jester (9d6fbc)

  201. Oh, I don’t think that Mr. Feet is a libertarian, at all. Not at all.

    Simon Jester (9d6fbc)

  202. So, it made him look moderate then, as with welfare reform, while he savaged our defense and intelligence budgets, cooked up that bogus surplus,

    narciso (3fec35)

  203. Bill Clinton signed DOMA into law. Hilary was on record supporting DOMA.

    But one had to always “LOL” at those two defending traditional marriage, or knew it was mainly for show, back when they sensed it was politically non-advantageous to be pro-GLBT. Even more so since they are major characters in US history for helping “define deviancy down.”

    That goes double for Obama’s previous skittishness about embracing same-sex marriage, knowing full well that his innate leftism combined with reported bisexuality made such a reaction nothing but window dressing.

    Mark (67e579)

  204. sorry i was busy watching The Killing my sister is here on a layover and that’s what we do when she has a layover here we get italian takeout and watch The Killing

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  205. 205-You are shocked when politicians play politics?

    Ian G. (b2d693)

  206. #207 No, but I am still somewhat surprised the Media allows them to get away with it as well as Obama.

    One minute, pro traditional marriage. Next minute calling LGBT members on the steps of the Supreme Court to raise their virtual hand over their head in victory.

    Takes a special type of disgusting for the media to gloss all this over.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec)

  207. Remember when that dirty liberal media ripped Kerry for flip flopping? Wait. Kerry was a democrat. Gasp. The media is a mix of liberals and conservatives. That’s the way it works. Are you expecting a needle off the record moment on every network, including a 3 hour discussion about Obama’s change of heart on an issue that he has already readily acknowledged?

    Ian G. (b2d693)

  208. The media is not a mix of liberals and conservatives, by an reasonable meaning of that phrase.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  209. Our teenager-in-chief.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  210. And in other news, we didn’t press on the Libyan government, and they released another Benghazi suspect, al Shibli.

    narciso (3fec35)

  211. We have scrambled jets to force down an airplane so the FBI could arrest suspects aboard. I don’t think we should do that to an Aereoflot flight. (Did you know that the Moscow to Havana flight comes down the entire eastern seaboard miles inside the US?). I know the FBI can arrest Snowden anywhere, even inside a foreign country. I don’t know how high up the “sign-off on” would be.

    nk (875f57)

  212. You’re missing the point, nk, he doesn’t really care, whereas this ‘local’ story in Austin, Fluke in Georgetown, a certain case in Central Florida, does have his attention,

    narciso (3fec35)

  213. 210-Are you suggesting that there aren’t any conservative media outlets or that there aren’t any liberal media outlets?

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  214. Remember when that dirty liberal media ripped Kerry for flip flopping?

    No, I don’t. On the contrary I remember them rallying behind him and convincing most of the country (even many who didn’t vote for him) that he was being maligned by unscrupulous people.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  215. 210-Are you suggesting that there aren’t any conservative media outlets or that there aren’t any liberal media outlets?

    The mainstream media are all on the left; FOX in its news reporting plays it roughly down the middle; nobody is on the right.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  216. 210-Are you suggesting that there aren’t any conservative media outlets or that there aren’t any liberal media outlets?

    No, Ian. I am not. I am suggesting that if you view the MFM in its entirety, it is a joke to claim there is a mix of liberals and conservatives. ABC, NBC, CBS, movies, NYT, LA Times, WSJ, WaPo, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, AP, Reuters, etal drown out the conservative media folks. Yet the tiny portion of the media that is “conservative” terrifies the Left, hence the demonization of same, and the near constant denial of reality by the likes of you.

    JD (b63a52)

  217. So there is a mix.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  218. Your sophistry is noted. Not that it was in doubt.

    JD (b63a52)

  219. You were arguing a very basic point, suggesting that the media was not a mix of conservative and liberal. Clearly it is. I’m not sure how you intend to defend what you said, other than that you were being intentionally combative.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  220. I said, and I quote, ” The media is not a mix of liberals and conservatives, by an reasonable meaning of that phrase.”

    If this is too complex for you to grasp, especially that part after the comma, you know the little thing that looks like this ,,,,,,,, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

    JD (b63a52)

  221. No. It is not too complex. I just wanted to let you know that your statement was factually incorrect.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  222. DRJ wrote:

    By my count, there are over 425 ambulatory (outpatient) surgery centers in Texas and 90 birthing centers that meet the “draconian” requirements of basic surgical care that you find objectionable. What I find both surprising and objectionable is that abortion clinics aren’t required to meet the same basic standards required of other outpatient clinics. It’s high time we fixed that.

    The difference? The “ambulatory (outpatient) surgery centers” are there to help people live; the abortuaries exist to help people die.

    The coldly realistic Dana (3e4784)

  223. Ian yesterday regaled us with tales of how Obama did not tweet out support of filibustering and mob rule. Today, it seems intent on proving it cannot read for comprehension.

    JD (b63a52)

  224. I support Wendy Davis and her noble stand against Teh Patriarchy! We need more people like Senator Davis . . . and we’d have had more, if’n my office had been shut down earlier.

    Kermit Gosnell (3e4784)

  225. Actually I didn’t do that, JD. I simply suggested that your conclusions required jumps and were not as cut and dried as you’d like to believe them to be.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  226. They were absolutely as cut and dried as stated. Unless you can point out something else going on in Austin that he was tweeting his admiration of.

    JD (b63a52)

  227. He was tweeting support for Wendy Davis.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  228. Always follow links by narciso

    That was great. We actually do need to do a lot more than that; instead of arguing, just ask a question that stops them in their tracks

    Not comparing Ingraham to Jesus, but that is what He often did when people were debating not in good faith.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  229. @ Simon Jester,

    To be direct, Mr. Feet: how do you think Dana and DRJ feel about your cutesy patois? Frankly, you drive away people who posts are valued by many. Perhaps even you.

    I have not been driven away by Happyfeet’s comments but rather been out of commission due to surgeries/physical rehab. I’ve continued my daily reading here, however.

    I choose not to engage Happyfeet in this discussion as I believe he has evidenced an intellectual dishonesty in discussions regarding abortion. I am also tired of his derogatory comments toward those who value life as being little more than simpering “lifeydoodles”. I suppose if one doesn’t value all life, this is to be expected.

    Ultimately, if he ever felt compelled to engage in an honest discussion, that would be wonderful and I would love it.

    Dana (6178d5)

  230. Dana–thank you for checking in. Hope your rehab allows you to feel continuously better and better.

    elissa (24b4c0)

  231. You’ve had a rough year, Dana. I hope you are on the mend.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  232. Dana – Best wishes on your continuing recovery. Should you need any arm strengthening, feel free toss some Jimmy Choos or hiking boots my direction.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  233. He was tweeting support for Wendy Davis.

    Who was engaged in a filibuster.

    And it was not limited to #standwithwendy. It referenced what was going on in Austin, which included the noxious pro-abortion mob.

    Again, your sophistry is noted. Maybe he will call Wendy.

    JD (bdb1b0)

  234. 180. Comment by JD (b63a52) — 6/26/2013 @ 5:51 pm

    The only things of note happening in Austin last night were the filibuster and Dem mobs. What else do you think he was referring to?

    Because he – or his account – didn’t specifically mention the filibuster, but rather vague “things” that could amount to endorsement of whatever Democratic Party leaders in Austin wanted to do.

    And that impression was not corrected later, was it?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  235. Something special is happening in Austin tonight: http://OFA.BO/CBZ6c7 #StandWithWendy
    9:40 PM – 25 Jun 2013

    JD (bdb1b0)

  236. @ daley,

    Should you need any arm strengthening, feel free toss some Jimmy Choos or hiking boots my direction.

    Ironically, I’m now in rehab for arthroscopic surgery on my shoulder. Jimmy Choo chucking is on hiatus… at least till I get the arm strength back!

    Thanks DRJ and elissa and daleyrocks for your kind words. As Queen Elizabeth once said of an awful year lived, this has been my personal annus horribilis.

    Dana (6178d5)

  237. That’s character building you didn’t need, Dana. I hope the horrible part of this year is over.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  238. As Queen Elizabeth once said of an awful year lived, this has been my personal annus horribilis.

    I used to refer to such things as AFGO: Another F*ing Growth Opportunity.

    Be well, Dana. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  239. That’s so true, Chuck – AFGO! As always, I find character-building a massively sucky experience. I’ve told God numerous times that surely there’s someone else that needs it more than me! (He just nods, grins, and reminds me that He loves me). On bad days, I remind myself that just three months ago, I was using a walker and today I am on my own two feet. I may still be in the tunnel, but it is getting better and I am getting closer to the light at the end.

    Thanks for your prayers. I need them.

    Dana (6178d5)

  240. Dana, one thing I have learned is that you are never alone in your struggles: there is always someone who has walked the same road and can steer you past the pitfalls.

    In a little over two years, I weathered the loss of my business (and with it, my house and life’s savings), and the death of my wife. I didn’t think I’d come out of that ordeal, but with help from my family, a little faith, and a lot of prayer, I did. As Mother Teresa once said, “I know God won’t let me face more than I can handle, but I wish he didn’t have so much confidence in my ability.”

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  241. best wishes Dana, remember Happyfeets a good guy,

    E.PWJ (c3dbb4)

  242. plus defining viable at just over 20 weeks is silly

    Maybe, I haven’t read the bill.

    But there is a strong argument to be made for limited later-term abortions because of the functioning nervous system of the fetus and not wanting to inflict pain on it.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  243. Deniers of teh Science…

    Colonel Haiku (7f941f)

  244. this has been my personal annus horribilis.

    Comment by Dana

    I think they may have a topical ointment for that, Dana.

    Colonel Haiku (7f941f)

  245. Your story is so inspiring and I needed to hear it. Thank you for sharing and passing on such encouragement, Chuck. I absolutely concur with mother Theresa.

    Colonel, You crack me up!

    Dana (6178d5)

  246. The Former Conservative cracks me up:

    But there is a strong argument to be made for limited later-term abortions because of the functioning nervous system of the fetus and not wanting to inflict pain on it.

    Since we have made it perfectly legal to kill him, the argument that we must somehow have some sensibilities for his pain strike me as specious.

    The brutally honest Dana (af9ec3)

  247. EPJW, Thank you for your good wishes. Also it is not personal with Happyfeet. I am in no position to judge whether he is a good guy – I’ve been in a lot of physical pain Which has caused me to behave at times as anything but one of the ” good guys”.

    Dana (6178d5)

  248. Take care Dana, don’t ley anything or anyone steal your joy

    E.PWJ (c3dbb4)

  249. Chuck,

    You inspire me with your faith. God bless you and Dana both.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  250. Since everybody’s inspiring everybody, take a look at these great photos of centenarians and supercentenarians. It takes a little while to load but is worth it.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2013/06/26/sally_peterson_photographs_centenarians_and_supercentenarians.html

    elissa (c4cf6c)

  251. Amazing, elissa. I especially like the twins.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  252. His tweet included a link to the State senate floor, JD. There was no mention of a mob in his tweet. The state legislature is located in Austin (I assume that you know that) which matches up perfectly with the #standwithwendy. I feel like I’m trying to convince a 2 year old that the sun isn’t made of cheese.

    Ian G. (b2d693)

  253. Again, your sophistry is noted.

    JD (0819f1)

  254. Dana, I missed your comment and am catching up.

    First and most importantly, get well soon (and I hope you don’t mind that my sons and I will say a prayer for you).

    Second, your comments are missed. You and DRJ are some of my favorite commenters—and you almost never get angry or snarkish (I admire that—it’s nice for me to have a model to look up to). So yes, I have missed seeing your comments.

    Third, I apologize (as I did to DRJ privately) for invoking your name; while I think it is fine to remind certain people to keep from insulting folks I value, it is not proper for me to use the names of the folks that I value (I am well aware that you and DRJ do not need nor want my defense!). I have always found the “nasty” comments from Mr. Feet about certain social issues tiresome and hypocritical. But many people like him, it is not my website, and who the heck am I? I was just irritable over issues in my own life, and was afraid that his consistent nastiness over issues that are important to you would drive you away.

    Thus: I join my well-wishes to the many others. Get well soon.

    Simon Jester (f5785f)

  255. You do realize that the Texas legislature is located in Austin, yes?

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  256. No way, imdw. How could I possibly have missed that. Thank you for pointing that out. How silly of me to have not known that. You do know that the pro-abortion mob was in the gallery in the Senate as well, don’t you? Which is also in Austin. Or was he talking about Rudy’s BBQ?

    You really are not very good at this, serial troll.

    JD (0819f1)

  257. 261-So the crux of your argument is that #standwithwendy referred to the mob (in Austin) and not Wendy Davis’ filibuster (in Austin). Interesting take, JD.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  258. No, but I knew the moment I read you type “so the crux of your argument is…” That your dishonesty would continue apace. Both never enters your calculus, though both occurred together, at the same location. And you ignore the irony that Obama’s love of the filibuster is entirely situational.

    JD (0819f1)

  259. I haven’t ignored that, JD. The only point that I was making is that you jumped to an illogical conclusion that conveniently blends with your prejudiced notions of our president based on his political party.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  260. there’s that “our” thing again

    what’s up with all this unexamined collectivism around here lately

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  261. I haven’t ignored that, JD. The only point that I was making is that you jumped to an illogical conclusion

    Only to sycophants and sophists like you. The filibuster and the leftist mob did not exist in a vacuum.

    JD (0819f1)

  262. The filibuster and the leftist mob did not exist in a vacuum.

    Absolutely correct, JD. In the same breath, they are not necessarily a package deal. One can praise one and not the other, for example.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  263. Yet Teh One made no such distinction.

    JD (0819f1)

  264. He shouldn’t have had to.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  265. In that you are correct. If leftists did not resort to these tactics, it would not be an issue. Alas, it is what they do. And given his prior rhetoric about getting in their faces, punching back twice as hard, and his uber-leftist support to allow babies born after botched abortions to be left for dead, what about that gives you the belief that he did not support the leftist pro-abortion mob?

    JD (b63a52)

  266. So Ian G., why do people like you love the filibuster in the Texas Senate but want to get rid of it in the U.S. Senate? That doesn’t have anything to do with the situational makeup of either body does it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  267. #standwithwendy = I love that leftist pro abortion mob

    or

    #standwithwendy = I support Wendy Davis

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  268. 271-You don’t know anything about me to categorize me with a blanket “people like you” statement. You have no idea.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  269. Again, “Ian” simply ignores the rest and is mendoucheous. And dishonest. Shocking.

    Austin is not just limited to St Wendy. Concurrently, at the same location, the pro abortion mob was doing its thing.

    JD (76f514)

  270. 274-We have already been over that. Your logic is fuzzy and your arguments tired.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  271. Not a “pro-abortion” crowd, but a pro-choice crowd, many of whom may well be against abortion, like myself, but feel that it is the woman’s decision to make, within the boundaries of current law law.

    The fuzzy thinkers with their tired arguments think otherwise!

    Gramps2 (3096f4)

  272. “You don’t know anything about me to categorize me with a blanket “people like you” statement.”

    Ian G – Your comments on this thread speak volumes about, especially one such as #264 and your choice of the word “prejudiced.” Don’t fool yourself. You give yourself away.

    Go ahead, dodge the question.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  273. “Not a “pro-abortion” crowd, but a pro-choice crowd”

    Gramps2 – Please explain the difference.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  274. 277-I explained my use of the word ‘prejudice’.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  275. “277-I explained my use of the word ‘prejudice’.”

    Ian G. – As it relates to yourself?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  276. You should read the thread before you comment Daley. That’s generally how adult conversations work. Or you can skip to the bottom and demonstrate your ignorance straight away. This is America and I don’t want to tread on your free speech. Just know that people judge you on it.

    Ian G. (bd7302)

  277. Not a “pro-abortion” crowd, but a pro-choice crowd, many of whom may well be against abortion, like myself, but feel that it is the woman’s decision to make, within the boundaries of current law law.

    Pure sophistry, Perry. Being pro-choice does not preclude reasonable restrictions on abortion. But in reality, the pro-choice crowd opposes any restrictions on abortion, including born-alive laws. From that, it’s only rational to conclude that they are pro-abortion and not choice.

    Chuck Bartowski (ad7249)

  278. 62% of Texans support the ban on abortions after 20 weeks:

    The poll split a question about abortions after 20 weeks — an effort to see whether talking in the context of fetal pain changed the responses of Texas voters. It didn’t: 62 percent said they would support “prohibiting abortions after 20 weeks based on the argument that a fetus can feel pain at that point,” and that same percentage said they support “prohibiting abortions after 20 weeks.” Nearly half — 49 percent in the first question and 47 percent in the second — said they would strongly support those prohibitions.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  279. “You should read the thread before you comment Daley.”

    Ian G. – Unfortunately I have, which is why I think we need to have a discussion about your prejudices. Then again, you don’t seem to actually like answering the questions which are asked of you.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  280. DRJ, if there were such a thing as a National Referendum, one where EVERYONE had to go to the poll, many in the political world (I think) would be shocked at the results, and we would be hearing a lot less about the beauty of direct democracy.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  281. No exception for the health of the mother? That violates Jewish law. FWIW.

    M. Simon (1aa256)


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