Patterico's Pontifications

4/25/2013

Tsarnaev Was Too Radical for Radical Mosque

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:03 am

USA Today:

The mosque attended by the two brothers accused in the Boston Marathon double bombing has been associated with other terrorism suspects, has invited radical speakers to a sister mosque in Boston and is affiliated with a Muslim group that critics say nurses grievances that can lead to extremism.

Several people who attended the Islamic Society of Boston mosque in Cambridge, Mass., have been investigated for Islamic terrorism, including a conviction of the mosque’s first president, Abdulrahman Alamoudi, in connection with an assassination plot against a Saudi prince.

Its sister mosque in Boston, known as the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center, has invited guests who have defended terrorism suspects. A former trustee appears in a series of videos in which he advocates treating gays as criminals, says husbands should sometimes beat their wives and calls on Allah (God) to kill Zionists and Jews, according to Americans for Peace and Tolerance, an interfaith group that has investigated the mosques.

The great part is that the mosque apparently wasn’t radical enough for him, because he kept getting up to argue with those preaching about how they were not observing their faith strictly enough:

When preachers told congregants at a mosque in November that it was appropriate for Muslims to celebrate US holidays such as the 4 July Independence Day and Thanksgiving, a man who would later be a suspect in last week’s the Boston Marathon bombing stood up to argue, the mosque said.

. . . .

The troublesome behaviour first came in November, just before the American harvest holiday of Thanksgiving, the mosque said. At a weekly prayer, a preacher gave a sermon saying it was appropriate for Muslims to celebrate American holidays. Tamerlan Tsarnaev stood up and argued that “celebration of any holiday was not allowed in the faith”.

The preacher met with Tsarnaev and discussed the issue after the service.

In January, the mosque said Tsarnaev had a similar outburst.

This time, the sermon included praise for civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jnr, and this time Tsarnaev shouted, calling the preacher a “non-believer” and “hypocrite” who was “contaminating people’s minds”. Congregants shouted back at him, telling him to leave, and he did.

I don’t see how any of this should have raised any red flags at all!

What, just because the CIA wanted him on a terrorist watch list? And because the Russians had repeatedly warned us of his adherence to radical Islam and the potential danger he posed? And because he left the country to travel to Chechnya?

WHAT DIFFERENCE, AT THIS POINT, CAN IT POSSIBLY MAKE?!?!?!?!?! PEOPLE HAVE DIED!!!!!!

I’ll tell you what difference it makes, Hil. I’ll tell you with a question.

How many other people who have been waving similarly giant red flags in the government’s face are walking around right now, planning to bomb and kill our children?

59 Comments

  1. These people were “in a sensitivity coma”, in Mark Steyn’s excellent phrase.

    Comment by The Sanity Inspector (ca8d89) — 4/25/2013 @ 7:09 am

  2. when going to mosque stops being fun you need to take a time out I think

    Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 4/25/2013 @ 7:25 am

  3. Dammit, Janet!

    Comment by Icy (1d544c) — 4/25/2013 @ 7:30 am

  4. Shortly after 9/11, the WSJ ran several stories on the radical islam issues with these two mosques.

    Comment by Joe (debac0) — 4/25/2013 @ 7:34 am

  5. How can we believe the speakers from this mosque? Nihad Awad the executive director of CAIR in Philadelphia explained to his Islamist buddies: “When I speak with the American, I speak with someone who doesn’t know anything. As for the Palestinian with a martyr brother or something, I know how to address him, you see?”

    Award Winning Spin

    You see this constantly, they say one thing in English, then an entirely different thing in Arabic.

    Comment by Tanny O'Haley (09cf80) — 4/25/2013 @ 8:21 am

  6. Hill says the communiques requesting enhanced security in Tripoli, and Benghazi, never reached her even though the Congressional Report says otherwise.
    Solution:
    The State Dept. can release the original cables, with the distribution stamps and accompanying initials of who read them and when.
    That would confirm that either the institution itself is incompetent, or just the SecState.

    Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 4/25/2013 @ 8:34 am

  7. Free Jahar!

    Free Mumia!

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/25/2013 @ 10:48 am

  8. They would have to be “free”, no one in their right mind would pay for either one.

    Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 4/25/2013 @ 10:57 am

  9. askeptic – My local supermarket is always out of free Darfur when I ask for it.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/25/2013 @ 11:04 am

  10. I believe and I fear this “investigation” will not solve one single freaking thing. Our appeasement is our biggest problem, not Islamism.

    Open your eyes!

    Comment by Patricia (be0117) — 4/25/2013 @ 11:33 am

  11. Speed Bump and Ship Stain are Massachusetts State sponsored Terrorists.

    Comment by mg (31009b) — 4/25/2013 @ 11:34 am

  12. Oh, and… racist!

    Comment by Patricia (be0117) — 4/25/2013 @ 11:48 am

  13. jahar superstar that is what you are
    floating in your boat you’re bereft of hope
    just an immigrant at a sports event
    I’d sail away with ya back to chechnya
    but except for you be in jail plus also I have this project I’m trying to transition to a new manager and I’m kinda saving my vacation days for in case I decide to go to Texas this summer

    Comment by happyfeet (c60db2) — 4/25/2013 @ 11:48 am

  14. I believe and I fear this “investigation” will not solve one single freaking thing. Our appeasement is our biggest problem, not Islamism.

    You make an excellent point, Patricia. Peace at any price – no matter how much commitment to freedom we have to relinquish, and especially no matter how much truth becomes necessary to deny.

    Comment by Dana (292dcf) — 4/25/2013 @ 12:01 pm

  15. I am reminded of a surreal moment after John Hinckley’s attack on Ronald Reagan: the head of the Chicago Nazis on TV, saying that they had to expel Hinckley, because he was a dangerous nut.

    Comment by Rich Rostrom (47c4e2) — 4/25/2013 @ 12:39 pm

  16. Abdulrahman Alamoudi That was the original spelling of his name, or perhaps Abdul Rahman as two separate words.

    He later changed the spelling of his name to Abdurahman Alamoudi, leaving out the “l” with no justification. He did that, I am sure, to escape his past. (Lexis/Nexis searches and so on)

    The spelling Mafia strikes again! Whenever you see this kind of spelling variation, you should take a closer and closer look. The American Mafia does it too.

    Here is the Wikipedia article, which doesn’t say much derogatory, but it does indicate the spelling variations (without analyzing the different circumstances in which they were used)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_al-Amoudi

    Al-Amoudi – another spelling variation.

    The American Muslim Council described itself as an Islamic revival movement. This is an important point. All of this is new. It’s not old.

    Al-Amoudi was described as an “expert in the art of deception” in a report by Newsweek journalists Mark Hosenball and Michael Isikoff, for expressing moderate, pro-American sympathies in his lobbying and public relations work with Americans, but then expressing support for Hamas and Hezbollah at an Islamist rally.[4]

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 1:00 pm

  17. I heard this morning on CBS “This Morning” that, accordfing to John Miller, The russians asked for information about Tsarnaev because they were concerned he might do something in Russia. The FBI checked its databases – he’s not mentioned in any cases – his name didn’t come up in any wiretaps, and reported they had nothing. Then the Russians asked the CIA. Which makes sense since they operate in different places.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 1:09 pm

  18. You hear things, and you hear other things and then still more, and you have to decide which is is correct. I think you actually can make prettyy good gueses, because some things, by their very nature, if X is said and Y is said and Z is said, Z (or Y as the case may be) is probably true, at leasst is say if C is true (Z matches with some other things.)

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 1:16 pm

  19. If perpetrators had lived in New York City…

    It would have been prevented, says Judith Miller in the Wall Street Journal today.

    She says that’s because the New York City Police Department would have done a much better job than the Boston Police department did (and she doesn’t say but it goes without saying, the FBI)

    New York cops almost surely would have monitored Tamerlan—the elder of the two brothers—if they had known that Russia had warned the FBI in 2011 that he was an Islamic radical, that he was potentially dangerous, and that he had spent several months in Dagestan, a Russian republic with an Islamic insurgency, in 2012. “We would have been very reluctant to shut down an investigation if we knew all that it seems the bureau knew or could have known, especially once he had traveled to a region of concern,” says Mitchell Silber, the former director of intelligence analysis for the NYPD, who now works at K2, a New York-based private security firm.

    And when he had a problem with the mosque, they would have known, and known that was a big red flag.

    In New York, Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s mosque quarrel and his sudden behavioral changes might well have been reported by concerned worshipers, the imam himself, or other fellow Muslims. The NYPD maintains close ties to Muslim preachers and community leaders, as well as a network of tipsters and undercover operatives.

    And perhaps they might be afraid not to co-operate. She also says that:

    the NYPD’s cyberunit might have detected his suspicious online viewing choices (not if you needed a warrant to do that) and social-media postings. Other detectives might have picked up his purchase of a weapon, gunpowder and even a pressure cooker—an item featured in an article, “How to Build a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom,” in the online al Qaeda magazine Inspire.

    Even if the NYPD hadn’t been watching Tamerlan, it might have been tipped off to such suspicious purchases thanks to its Nexus program. Since the program’s launch in 2002, the department has visited more than 40,000 businesses in the metropolitan area, encouraging business owners and managers to report suspicious purchases or other activities potentially related to terrorism.

    (Tamerlan Tsarnaev did purchase things containing gun powder in New Hampshire. Would New York City have had contact with stores in Pennsylvania?

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 1:35 pm

  20. Judith Miller says that New York City has a model of how to identify and stop killers like the Tsarnaev brothers before they strike.

    She says that in 2007 Mitchell Silber, the former director of intelligence analysis for the NYPD, and Arvin Bhatt, also an NYPD analyst wrote a report that said that the with the attrition of Al Qaeda leadership the primary threat would come from “homegrown” Muslims under the age of 35 who had become Islamists in the West and they called their report “Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat,”

    It said warning signs could be: family crisis – Tamerlan had that when his father broke from his mother in 2010 and returned to Dagestan (but did he return then?) exploration of radical ideas, changing his behavior like stopping smoking and drinking and gambling and “urban hip-hop gangster clothes” in favor of “traditional Islamic clothing” and “growing a beard.”

    “withdrawal from the mosque” was also a bad sign, because that might mean he was rejecting traditional Islamic mentors in favor of Salafist ones.

    This is on page A15 of the April 25, 2013 Wall Street Journal, with the headline: How to Stop Terrorists Before They Kill: The NYPD’s surveillance program was designed to detect local terrorists before they strike—and it’s working.

    She doesn’t go into if any of she says will still be true for long if a Democrat is elected mayor.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 1:44 pm

  21. The Mosque was being “pro-American”, without changing anything else it might be saying, when it endorsed observing American non-Christian holidays, which is where it seems to have run into conflict with Tamerlan Tsarnaev. This apparently must have conflicted with what he was hearing in other places.

    It is said he only attended that mosque sporadically. (or at least was not a member)

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 1:47 pm

  22. Also, the family got cut off from welfare. Guess we better not do that any more!

    Comment by Patricia (be0117) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:06 pm

  23. We keep getting contradictory reports, and I am not sure where it is going to settle down.

    They had an arsenal of weapons, including two handguns. A.40 caliber handgun and a 9 mm handgun
    and a A M-4 carbine which was with Dzhokhar in the boat and BB gun.

    No, they only had one gun at first – they killed the policeman to steal his gun. (I was prepared to argue that while they may have taken the gun that was not the purpose, but this was more like Oswald killing Officer Tippit)

    But then it truns out that no, they didn’t actually take a guin from the MIT policeman.

    And they had only one gun and Dzhokhar didn’t have anything with him in the boat. The gun they did have had its serial number shaved off.

    They had only one car at a time. No, they had two cars, with one brother in each car. No, they had one car. (probably all true at different times)

    Dzhokhar killed his brotehr by running him over. No, you couldn’t determine the cause of death.

    He didn’t run his brother over – Tamerlan went to the policemen carrying a pipe bomb and a gun and the gun ran out of ammunition and the pipe bomb exploded in his hand and he was tackled.

    No, Dzohkhar ran the stolen SUV at the two policemen holding his brotehr and the policemen got out of the way but Tamerlan was too weak to do so and so was dragged by the car.

    They took $800 out of ATM. No, they only attempted to do so. No, they took the money out in Watertown (after the carjack victim had scaped)

    They told the carjack victim they were going to New York. Dzhokhar told the police that they were going to party. No, they were going to explode their third bomb in Times Square.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:07 pm

  24. The carjack victim is Chinese. They told him they had done the bombing, and Tamerlan pulled the magazine out of his gun, showed a bullet and said he was serious.

    They noticed he looked different and they asked his nationality. Is the carjack victim a foreign student from China, like one of the 3 people killed? I think nationality here might mean passport.

    When he said he was Chinese they said they wouldn’t kill him since they only wanted to kill Americans. He didn’t believe them. And they certainly were threatening his life to get the ATM card PIN number. He believed they were going to kill him somewhere else (or planned to, when they were done with him or when they came to the right location)

    A security camera saw the killing of Sean Collier, the MIT cop. (There were nine witnesses to the Tippit murder)

    Anzar Tsarnaev had a civil service job in Kyrguzstan, but got fired (this would be 1992)

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:14 pm

  25. Look at this: (from DRJ’s LA Times link:

    WASHINGTON — Investigators said the two Boston Marathon bombs were triggered by long-range remote controls for toy cars

    This makes sense. Before they were saying timers. this didn’t comport with them sticking around to the last minute. it didn’t seem to fit with the way it exploded. but they were ssure cell phones were not used.

    Thats’s why they were looking for people who had left packages an hour or two before.

    So remote controls for toy cars makes a great dela of sense.

    It also, according to the LA Times, makes the bomb more sophisticated.

    Now they are saying Tamerlan Tsarnaev “more than likely got some instruction in Dagestan” – but that was just education – there’s no evidence anybody else told him to go ahead and explode a bomb in the United States. “investigators continued to believe that… no foreign terrorist group orchestrated the plot.”

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:25 pm

  26. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:26 pm

  27. MORE Secretary of State John F. Kerry told reporters Wednesday in Brussels that the elder suspect “learned something where he went, and he came back with a willingness to kill people.” …..Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who was captured Friday and is still being treated for gunshot wounds, has told investigators that he and his older brother were operating alone, and that they had received no training or support from outside terrorist groups.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:29 pm

  28. at this point, the only thing that is sure is that two bombs went off, killing and wounding people.

    between the MFM & the government, but i repeat myself, it’s impossible to tell fact from spin at this point.

    one lies, and the other one swears to it.

    Comment by redc1c4 (403dff) — 4/25/2013 @ 2:59 pm

  29. Well they went to a radical mosque, then the older one went to Dagestan, and then came back and blew something up.

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/25/2013 @ 3:00 pm

  30. “Its sister mosque in Boston”
    Isn’t calling it a “sister” mosque a mistake? After all the women hatred and all, shouldn’t it be called a “brother” mosque? just askin’

    Comment by jb (bd3b0f) — 4/25/2013 @ 7:06 pm

  31. Speaking of sister sister, apparently this Tamerlan wasn’t too radical for his theoretically formerly Christian wife.

    Feds Further Investigating Role of Bomber’s Wife
    Katherine Russell Tsarnaeva notified husband that the FBI had released his picture.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feds-further-investigating-role-bombers-wife_719130.html

    According to those officials, Dzokhar Tsarnaev told interrogators that the information that set in motion the series of events leading to Tamerlan’s death and Dzokhar’s apprehension came in a phone call from Katherine Russell Tsarnaeva to her husband. “She notified him and there certainly didn’t seem to be any notion of surprise – just a report that ‘you’re being watched,’” said one official with knowledge of the investigation. Tsarnaev had seen the photographs and videos distributed by the FBI on television and called her husband to give him a heads up.

    After receiving that phone call, authorities believe, Tamerlan decided he could not continue to hide from law enforcement and triggered the brothers’ bizarre flight from authorities – a wild chase that included the murder of an MIT police officer, a convenience-store robbery, a carjacking, shootouts with police officers, the death of Tamerlan and the capture of Dzokhar.

    Yeah, she was Christian I bet.

    Comment by Steve57 (da9e0e) — 4/25/2013 @ 10:08 pm

  32. Guess what, ‘no soup for you’

    http://twitchy.com/2013/04/25/boston-globe-reports-intelligence-wall-still-standing-fbi-never-alerted-anti-terror-unit/

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/25/2013 @ 10:12 pm

  33. With a muslim loving judge, the questioning of ship stain has stopped.
    Thank lawyers and American haters for that.

    Comment by mg (31009b) — 4/26/2013 @ 12:57 am

  34. The Marlboro man was are last chance to have ship stain executed for murder. And that sucks. We will be watching this awful stain bitch about us for the rest of his life.

    Comment by mg (31009b) — 4/26/2013 @ 1:02 am

  35. http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/26/the-police-state-runs-on-dunkin/

    Comment by SPQR (768505) — 4/26/2013 @ 8:42 am

  36. They are looking for a discarded latop in a Boston area landfill.

    The affidavit got the location of the carjacking wrong.

    New York City wa snot informed of the idea the bom,bers had of going to Times zSquare until Wednesday night.

    Tsarnaev’; parents can’t make up their minds what lies to tell, especially the mother.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/26/2013 @ 2:30 pm

  37. In other news:

    Part of a landing gear from one of the hijacked planes that crashed into the World Trade Center on 9/11 was found today, wedged between two buildings in Lower Manhattan…it’s the former site of the would-have-been “Ground Zero Mosque”

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 4/26/2013 @ 2:31 pm

  38. …looking for a discarded laptop…

    They’ll find it right after they arrest the guy on “the grassy knoll”.

    Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 4/26/2013 @ 2:46 pm

  39. Yes, Inspector Clousseau, great job;

    http://twitchy.com/2013/04/26/fox-news-does-line-of-sight-detonation-method-suggest-third-marathon-bomber-video/

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/26/2013 @ 3:42 pm

  40. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/26/boston-suspects-mom-was-also-on-terror-watchlist-sources-tell-ap/

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/26/2013 @ 3:57 pm

  41. narciso – Similarities to Oswald are just freaking eerie!

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/26/2013 @ 4:03 pm

  42. We’ll know for sure when Jack Ruby shows up, won’t we.

    Comment by elissa (a3d974) — 4/26/2013 @ 4:07 pm

  43. Sigh. We can just wrap this whole thing up.

    These guys were brainwashed by the government to cover up Lincoln’s murder because Kennedy’s assassin really hated marathons. Especially the ones run by Disney every year because he was a nazi and everyone knows nazis are hiding on the dark side of the moon purposely keeping weed from being legalized because 9/11 was an inside job by the reptilian overlords because they’re tired of living underground because f***ing OBAMA is taking away our rights just to make way for his army of Bigfoot to implement martial law and keep is all in concentration camps because I don’t want to wash my hair. Like. F***ing happy 4/20 you sheep.

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 4/26/2013 @ 4:42 pm

  44. nk–iffen you can’t work Sandra Fluke into your theory it’s a no go as far as I’m concerned.

    Comment by elissa (a3d974) — 4/26/2013 @ 4:55 pm

  45. Double Heh!!

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/26/2013 @ 5:29 pm

  46. Rock n Roll, nk.

    Comment by mg (31009b) — 4/26/2013 @ 6:03 pm

  47. Too much, too soon? http://krites.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-boston-marathon-bombers-mom.html

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 4/26/2013 @ 6:45 pm

  48. lol, nk

    Comment by dustin (2da3a2) — 4/26/2013 @ 7:29 pm

  49. A “radical mosque” that celebrates… 4th of July, Thanksgiving and MLK. Good one.

    Comment by geoff (092110) — 4/27/2013 @ 12:34 pm

  50. “A “radical mosque” that ………..”

    geoff – was founded by someone in jail on terrorism charges. Imagine that!

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/27/2013 @ 1:09 pm

  51. Just like the mosque where Jose Padilla, got his start, where they celebrated the Tsunami as Allah’s judgement, etc, etc.

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/27/2013 @ 1:21 pm

  52. As for the mosque where they went to in Machakala, (sic)

    http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-imam-mosque-visited-bombing-suspect-speaks-time-203225933.html

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/27/2013 @ 1:24 pm

  53. narciso – I think geoff was trying to suggest that the mosque is more patriotic than Obama or something.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/27/2013 @ 1:56 pm

  54. That last sounds like ‘chickens coming home to roost’ or words of that nature.

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/27/2013 @ 1:59 pm

  55. “Just like the mosque where Jose Padilla, got his start, where they celebrated the Tsunami as Allah’s judgement, etc, etc”

    No the 4th of July is not like that.

    Comment by geoff (aee97b) — 4/27/2013 @ 2:10 pm

  56. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/27/russia-had-wiretap-on-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-us-officials-say/

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/27/2013 @ 2:22 pm

  57. Hi imdw!

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/27/2013 @ 2:30 pm

  58. He’s not too radical for Eric Holder or Barry Obama.

    Comment by Elephant Stone (a59d01) — 4/27/2013 @ 2:36 pm

  59. At least at this point we can still pin our hopes on the unvarnished democratic idealism of the freedom fighters in Syria yearning to be free of the reformist Assad regime.

    Go Arab Spring!

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/28/2013 @ 12:36 pm

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