Patterico's Pontifications » The December 30 Post

12/30/2012

The December 30 Post

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:02 pm

Otherwise known as the “I got nothin’” open thread.

Comments (117)

117 Comments

David Bowie is playing here. Go Ziggy!

Comment by Patterico (8adc87) — 12/30/2012 @ 9:03 pm
Worth a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxRlpRcorEU

Sanctimonious “anti-gun” celebs get the smack down.

Comment by Robert C. J. Parry (a5133c) — 12/30/2012 @ 9:25 pm
How about I give up my gun when all those politicians and celebrities give up their bodyguards’ guns?

Except, I don’t own a gun. They do, though. And they want you to know who matters. It’s not you.

Comment by Ag80 (b2c81f) — 12/30/2012 @ 10:07 pm
The Miami Herald’s got something, as per usual this time of year:

Dave Barry’s Year in Review

Comment by Steve57 (2073db) — 12/30/2012 @ 10:07 pm
I’m watching Valley Girl from 1983. Why didn’t Deborah Foreman become a huge star? She is absolutely enchanting. I had a crush on her back then, and I still do today.

Comment by JVW (4826a9) — 12/30/2012 @ 10:19 pm
I saw Bowie’s American debut at the Santa Monica Civic in 1972. Great show. All Spiders from Mars.

Comment by AZ Bob (28c32d) — 12/30/2012 @ 10:21 pm
Cliff me.

Comment by mg (31009b) — 12/30/2012 @ 11:27 pm
http://www.magissue.com/deborah-foreman-biography-1962.html

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/30/2012 @ 11:28 pm
There are $2,000 milling machines that can turn out high-capacity magazines one after the other, given a few springs.

And, mind you, this is a country that is awash in illegal cocaine grown in foreign countries. But we have to disarm the sane to show the crazy people that we mean business!

Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:47 am
Nuke the Moon! is looking saner all the time.

Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:47 am
Good you tube.
Demand a plan.
Demand celebrities go eff themselves.

Comment by mg (31009b) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:26 am
You got nothing? Who do you think you are, President?

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 6:15 am
Re: Valley Girl and Deborah Foreman

Funny how the teen girls that made your heart flutter when you were a teen yourself are still fair game for admiration even when you are an old-timer like me (while their peers look like kids)…I agree, she was a honey in that movie, made a handful more afterwards and for some reason fell out of the business. So many reasons why this might have happened; I could look it up.

Of course, her costar in that movie went on to bigger and better things but I think that was his first starring role, and you can basically see every scenery-chewing performance he’s given since presaged in this one.

That film has a terrific soundtrack, which went unreleased for years and years because the various “record companies” involved couldn’t work out the necessary rights. When it was eventually released decades later, the market for it had mostly evaporated.

Comment by Pious Agnostic (20c167) — 12/31/2012 @ 6:57 am
Even (?) the DAILY BEAST is suspicious of Hillary Clinton’s illness:

How Serious Is Hillary Clinton’s Blood Clot and Hospitalization? Dec 31, 2012 4:45 AM EST

So, Kremlinologists, what do you think? Is Clinton faking a “diplomatic illness,” as suggested by John Bolton and echoed by other members on the incredulous right? Or is she mighty sick and maybe dying, and the Clinton misdirection machine is simply spewing out falsehoods to throw people like me off the scent? Or is she really being treated for a clot related to the concussion, and once again our desperate need to inflate all things Clinton into a psychodrama requires us to assume nothing is quite what it seems?

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:04 am
Background: Hillary Clinton was admitted last night to New York Presbyterian Hospital, one of the top hospitals in New York, for treatment of a blood clot discovered Sunday. She was staying in Chappaqua.

She will stay in the hospital at least two days.

Clinton spokesman Phillipe Rein said (in a prepared statement according to the New York times) that physicians are worried about “other issues associated with her concussion” but declined to elaborate, according to the New York Daily News.

The Daily News has this on page 2, but the New York Post has this as its front page headline. It doesn’t seem to be at all in the New York Times.

It’s on the web page, though:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/31/us/hillary-clinton-goes-to-hospital-after-exam-finds-a-blood-clot.html?hp

And the web page says it appeared on page A11, and yes, it’s there, running down column 1, almost all the way to the bottom. the Wall Street Journal has it on page A7.

The National Enquirer says it is a brain tumor. The National Enquirer is close to Clinton, so that rules out a brain tumor, which isn’t likely anyway in the first place..

I’d suspect some other kind of cancer, or maybe not cancer at all..perhaps she’s being poisoned.

Since the doctors are more likely to omit information than to flat out lie, I’d say she probably fell. I’d say she has low calcium, and the fall and the clot could be related to medicine she’s taking.

Now what drugs would cause bone thinning and clots?

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:17 am
Something about the Sandy Hook massacre is bothering me.

First reports said that Lanza used pistols to kill the children and teachers. The police found the Bushmaster in his car. The original 911 call said the shooter had two guns, not three. Isn’t that report a rather odd mistake for police to make? Huff Po reported:

“The gunman drove to the school in his mother’s car, the second official said. Three guns were found — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/sandy-hook-elementary-school-shooting_n_2300831.html

The original breaking AP News links have been removed. The school was cordoned off for several days while investigators were “processing” the crime scene.

The pols in Connecticut don’t like “assault weapons.” Cops don’t like them in the hands of civilians. The President doesn’t like them either. Unfortunately for the gun banners, the AR15 Holmes used in Aurora and the one the shooter at the Clackamas Mall used had their mags jam. The lethality argument wasn’t strong. In Newtown, the shooter, 20 children and 6 teachers were dead. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Did the police and their media enablers alter the facts? What harm would it do? Why not report something that contributes to the greater good? Did they fit this horrendous crime to a narrative as they did with Trayvon Martin case?

The Obama Administration armed thousands of Sinaloa gunmen to get semiautomatic weapons banned. What makes us think he would stop there?

Comment by Arch (0baa7b) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:25 am
She’ll get better eventually. Or not.

If she were faking just to avoid the congress, it would have been easier to show up and lie. The blogs would have covered it and the media would have covered it up as usual.

Hillary’s problem is she would be honest before congress. She has been all along. Check the wikileaked state department docs.

So I’ll assume she did fall and bust her head. She probably has the blood clot, just like the news says.
Get well soon, Hillary.

And happy New Year.

Comment by papertiger (e55ba0) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:40 am
16. Adam Lanza actually had four guns with him. One he left in the car. It was a shotgun, I think. It was not the Bushmaster rifle. (on Dec 19 CNN said the policve had given no details about the shotgun but I did read something)

He killed himself with a pistol. I suppose it took them time to find the rifle.

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/27/setting-the-record-straight-adam-lanza-did-use-the-bushmaster-ar-15/

They also said at first he had been buzzed in. Actually he shot the glass in the door. (if he had been buzzed in, he wouldn’t have been able to carry the rifle with him)

The children were definitely shot with a rifle. that has stayed consistenmt and would explain the multiple bullets and why there were very few wounded but not killed. One teacher at least was wounded but not killed.

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:41 am
One comment at the RedState site lists 10 errors early the first day: (is this all the first hour or so?)

Disgruntled parent of student

Teacher’s son

Two shooters

One suspect under arrest

Body of shooter’s father found at house.

Body of shooter’s brother found at house.

Suspects name is Ryan Lanza

Suspect was ‘buzzed in at school because he was recognized’.

Target was shooter’s mother who is a teacher at Sandy Hook

Shooter’s mother was teacher’s aide at Sandy Hook.

=============================

Actually, Adam Lanza was home schooled for a while, but his mother was not otherwise a teacher. His connection to that school was that he attended it until his mother took him out to home school him. He later attended public school again.

He was carrying ID that said Ryan Lanza. Police wnet to Ryan Lanza’s home (in New Jersey) and discovered Ryan Lanza was alive, and pretty soon, after arresting him, that he had no connection with the shooting.

His parents were divorced, his father didn’t live there, and he had killed his mother.

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:53 am
Hillary’s problem is she would be honest before congress.

You’re kidding.

Comment by Gerald A (f26857) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:58 am
Sammy:

Believe me, I’m not saying that the press doesn’t make serious mistakes in their reporting.

The original report was very specific. The 911 caller said “two pistols.” A Bushmaster wouldn’t be misidentified as a Glock or a Sig Sauer. The weapon in the car was a “.223 caliber rifle.”

My point is that the errors are troubling because the final report aligns itself perfectly with the gun control story. There will be no trial where evidence must be presented under oath. It’s too perfect.

Comment by Arch (0baa7b) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:05 am
no not kidding.

Think about it. Why would you fake an illness to avoid a hearing where you are going to lie?

The lie would have few if any consequences, thanks to our media.

She doesn’t need to fake an illness in that situation – hence she is planning on telling the truth.

Since she’s going to tell the truth (maybe not all of the truth – but the things she says will be true to her best recollection) she doesn’t need to fake an illness to get out of it.

Hill has a head ache – and a blood clot – don’t doubt it.

Comment by papertiger (e55ba0) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:12 am
Op-ed article in the New York Times today:

Let’s Give Up on the Constitution

Not because of the Second Amendment. Because of the fiscal cliff!

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:15 am
A movie no one saw caused imaginary violent demonstrations in Benghazi which resulted in the death of the US Ambassador and 3 other Americans while Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, David Petreaus, et al, watched the attack unfold in real-time from the comfort and safety of the White House Situation Room.

As American land and sea forces assembled to attempt a rescue of the embattled Americans someone not yet identified by name ordered the Army and Navy response forces to stand-down, an order which could only come under the direct authority of the Commander-in-Chief. Both the Army General and the Navy Admiral organizing rescue operations were relieved of command to prevent them from going ahead anyway and deploying US armed forces to save the dozens of Americans under attack in Benghazi.

Since then the Obama Administration has been engaged in a widespread cover-up. They have manufactured excuses, delayed investigations, sent liars out to deceive us with blatantly phony disinformation, and stonewalled Congressional oversight committees.

Other than the Commander-in-Chief himself, Hillary Clinton has been the most elusive, first she failed to come forward and explain the State Department’s role in the matter or her personal involvement. Next, the despicible Susan Rice tried to misrepresent the facts and failed. Then Hillary ducked Congressional inquiry to go wine tasting in Australia, then she got a stomach flu and fainted, now she’s hospitalized with a blood clot.

Is Hillary faking illness to avoid testifying? Who can say for sure? I can’t, but I don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Hillary Clinton has a long established and crystal clear record of evading tough questions. Her memory always seems to vanish or get fuzzy at exactly the points when honest answers would shine the bright light of direct personal responsibility right in her smirking face.

And, you can bet your blue dress on that one.

Comment by ropelight (f6ef47) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:25 am
Comment by ropelight (f6ef47) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:25 am

As American land and sea forces assembled to attempt a rescue of the embattled Americans someone not yet identified by name ordered the Army and Navy response forces to stand-down, an order which could only come under the direct authority of the Commander-in-Chief.

That gets it wrong. They only got half orders to get ready. An order to cross an international border without permission from the government would have to come from teh Comamndrer in chief.

here is my (imperfect) timeline on this period:

Sept 11, 2012 – day. Early in the day, at Sept 11th memorial ceremony
outside the Pentagon, President Obama declares: “Al Qaeda’s leadership
has been devastated and Osama bin Laden will never threaten us again.
…No single event can destroy who we are. No act of terrorism can ever
change what we stand for.”

Massive anti-America crowd around U.S Embassy in Cairo, Egypt. They appear
to support Al Qaeda, or call for freeing leader of 1993 World Trade Center
bombers, but embassy receives word that they are angry over a video posted
on YouTube and tries to argue against blaming U.S. government.

Later in the day, walls of Cairo embassy are scaled and Al Qaeda flag
planted, but situation appears to be under control. Intentions of
demonstrators appear to be limited, and embassy is not overrun, nor
lives put in danger, possibly due to intercession with Egyptian government.

In Benghazi, Libya, armed Islamist group starts setting up checkpoints
in city. State Department security contracter gets worried. Ambassador
Stevens, visiting Benghazi possibly is told not to leave the consulate
and agrees to hold all of his meetings that day inside.

Approximately 7:00-8:00 Libyan time: Dusk in Benghazi. Ansar al Sharia
(or people using that designation) begins putting up roadblocks around
the U.S. mission (called a consulate, although it actually did not have
that status)

8:30: Turkish Ambassador (or some other official) leaves the consulate. Amb Stevens goes to bed.
Sean Smith goes online.

3:40 / 9:40 Consulate notifies Tripoli it is under attack. TV cameras
linked to operations center in compound capture armed men
swarming through the compound and, for a while, events are
reported by voice almost live to Foggy Bottom in Washington.

There are 3 American security men stationed at the mission,
plus two that the Ambassador took with him from Tripoli. In
addition, there is the Ambassador and two others, and the
6-acre villa is otherwise unoccupied at the moment.

Some State Department personnel are staying at the annex because
it is considered more safe. (The Ambassador doesn’t go there
because it would give the secret hideaway place away. Few
Libyans know about this second location, and no ordinary
neighbors.)

In recent months, the main form of security for Americans in
Benghazi has been concealment. Cars do not have diplomatic
plates, or have them taken off, and are not washed to avoid
appearing rich.

9:40-9:42 Shots heard at or near the annex, which is located
about a mile from the villa where the Ambassador is.

9:45 Several security people twice ask for permission to
immediately go to the consulate and are told by their
superiors in the annex to “stand down” They had previously
provided security to the Ambassador when he traveled outside
the mission, but it had not been their job to guard the
consulate. This was done by the State Departments’s own
Diplomatic Security force, and Libyans they trained and hired.

9:48? Urgent request comes from the CIA annex for military back-up
to help the compound (person in charge there apparently does
not want to risk his own people, or diminish the defenses of
of the annex.)

3:59 / 9:59 Unarmed drone is diverted from elsewhere in Libya to
Benghazi.

4:05 /10:05 Bulletin about attack goes out on State Department alert system.
Ambassador and four [sic] others reported safe in safe room.
Also states that Embassy in Tripoli reports approximately 20
people armed people fired shots, and explosions have been
heard as well. Pentagon, White House probably notified.

4:05 / 10:05 CIA security team at secret annex/safe house heads out
toward consulate. (or partial security team, consisting of at least
Tyrone Woods and two others, possibly against orders to stay put.)

Approx 10:15 Security team stops at third location to pick up heavy
weapons, and possibly Libyan force. (possibly they never
did get heavy machine guns, but were delayed waiting for
them. The stand-down order may in fact have been only an
order to wait until they got some heavier weapons or
some other assistance.)

The official CIA statement around the time of Hurricane
Sandy (Sat. Oct. 27) said, in part:

“No one at any level in the CIA told anyone not to help those
in need.” This is perfectly consistent with being told to wait
until they were better equipped, or until they got some Libyan
or other reinforcements, while promising it would happen any
minute now.

This could account for them asking to get going twice. And
finally perhaps just taking off.)

They drive using an indirect route to avoid armed groups,
so the 1-mile trip takes 24 minutes total. The last half
mile they go on foot. (to avoid possible roadblocks? Using
back yards or alleys of some kind to avoid possible enemy
forces?)

4:29/ 10:29 5 or 6 man CIA security team, with 16 Libyans, arrives at
consulate. They come under fire when they arrive, but
attackers appear to retreat, leaving behind burning building(s)

4:30 /10:30 Pentagon’s command center alerts Sect Def Panetta to attack

4:45/10:45? Unarmed drone diverted to Benghazi.

4:54/ 10:54 State Dep’t bulletin system says Embassy in Tripoli reports
that firing has stopped and compound has been cleared of
attackers. Response team is at mission attempting to locate
missing personnel, all of whom, presumably, went into
hiding, and are out of communication.

Before 5:00/11:00 – President Obama meets with National Security Council
in previously scheduled meeting (probably about the danger to
the Cairo embassy.) Among those present are National Security
Adviser Tom Donilon, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, amd
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey.
Subject of danger to Benghazi, Libya mission and personnel
is added to agenda.

Before the meeting starts, President gets told of attack,
and that it appears to be over, but they are out of contact
with the Ambassador and some others, and some people are
on the scene looking for them. Ambassador was last reported
safe, but some time ago, and danger remains in the streets
of Benghazi, and it may be difficult to leave safely.

Because things seems to be taking too long, President Obama
directs that they make sure that everybody is doing what they
need to in order to find the Ambassador and others and take
them all to safety.

Crazily contradictory information comes from the Libyan
government (details unspecified by Newsweek/Daily Beast)

Also: They are told, first, that a Libyan force of 40 men made
it to the consulate, but were forced to retreat, and, later,
that a second force sent out to the consulate couldn’t get
there because roads were being blocked by attackers, and that
they also had come under sniper fire.

Decision made to move U.S military assets for possible use
later. (In subsequent days some go to Egypt, Yemen, and
embassy in Libya, and many drones fly over Benghazi.)

President also orders there be an investigation to determine
who was responsible for the attack, and that we try to ensure
that proceedings are brought against them.

That ends high level/White House involvement. President
goes to Vegas for a planned campaign event.

5:11 /11:11 Unarmed drone, redirected from surveillance mission over
Al Qaeda-like training camps, arrives in Benghazi. Officials
in Washington see which buildings are burning. This drone is
of no use to CIA team on the ground. The drone offers only
a “soda-straw” view and is of low resolution. Further
processing normally creates a more intelligible panoramic
picture.

Till 11:30: Security team looks for people. They find one person dead in
burning building. Cannot find ambassador. At insistence of
Libyans with them, leave without the Ambassador. They come
under fire as they leave. (possibly closer to 11:20 than 11:30)

5:41/ 11:41 Secretary of State Hillary Clinton telephones CIA Director
David Petraeus. Subject: Need for co-operation of some kind.

(She may not know at that time that some people from the
annex actually went there. Or this possibly is over the
fact that they left without finding the Ambassador.)

??? In Tripoli, Libya, 22-man security team (which really is made up
of people who, at the moment, are working under the auspices
of the CIA) sets out to fly to Benghazi, 480 miles east of
Tripoli, but they encounter difficulties. They take cash to
hire a plane, but Libyan authorities insist response be
co-ordinated with Libyan force on the ground in Benghazi, and
delay the flight. Eventually, Libyan force is assembled.

Nobody asks the miitary to do anything. Forces in Italy are
about the same distance from Benghazi as Tripoli is. Getting
them involved might require a special presidential order. As
of this point, General Ham doesn’t think there seems to be any
need for them, so no such order is sought, but some forces are
activated and moved closer to Benghazi just in case the
situation deteriorates further.

11:30-11:45 Team returning from consulate to annex/safe house with
several rescued Americans and dead body, is in constant
radio contact with their headquarters. On their way back
to annex from consulate, team gets lost or misdirected and
so takes a long time to get back also. Tires were hit by gunfire.

6:07/12:07 Bulletin system reports Ansar al Sharia claimed responsibility.
on Facebook and Twitter and calls for attack also in Tripoli.

6:00/12:00? After arriving back at annex, the annex itself comes under
attack from small arms fire and RPG rounds. Local CIA security
team returns fire. Annex calls for military support. (Or maybe
this is later. There are no communications problems anytime
during the night.)

Attackers disperse about 1 AM, as….

7:00/ 1:00 Security team (Quick Reaction Force) touches down at Benghazi
Airport. They have to negotiate transportation into Benghazi.
About 30 Libyans, drawn from various militias, go to meet
them while they wait.

1-2 AM Team at airport learns annex is no longer under attack and
Ambassador is missing. Then get told he is at the hospital.
Make plans to travel to hospital with armed Libyan escort.

7:15/1:15 It is reported, probably falsely, that terrorists from Ansar
al Sharia have surrounded the hospital. This delays any
trip to the hospital. Security team also hears ambassador
is almost certainly dead.

1:30-1:45? With security situation at hospital unclear, and Ambassador
likely dead, they decide to head instead to the annex, as
originally intended.

8:00/2:00 Ambassador pronounced dead at hospital.

Meanwhile: British personnel present in Bengazi never get called.
Various U.S. military assets brought closer, but in the
end, they just spin their wheels. Also alerted are some
some small units from all over. Among them are Marines
known as FAST teams, who are deployed at U.S. Naval bases
and a special operations team based in central Europe,
which goes to Sigonella, Italy, and even people from
Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Also: A second unarmed
drone arrives at some point.

Some people – a few Americans and some Libyans, including
some who talked to Newsweek, go to the annex.

10:00/ 4:00? About this time, says a Libyan militia officer who calls
himself Ibn Febrayir, a shot rings out, followed within
seconds by rocket propelled grenades raining down from
men stationed in rooftops and behind trees. In a space
of two minutes, 15 RPGs hit. Then it ends.

Then a mortar goes off and hits the roof of one of the
buildings. Ibn Febrayir says they must have known the
co-ordinates. He and his force retreat down the road.
Two Americans, Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty, are killed
and David Ubben, Ambassador’s Steven’s personal security
guard, who escaped from the burning huilding where the
Ambassador and Sean Smith were, is severely wounded and
nearly killed.

11:15 /5:15 Security team “races” (?) to the annex using GPS locators
to guide them. . (Just when?)

11:30/5:30? Annex goes under attack again. Two security officers killed
by mortar fire. Attack lasts 11 minutes.

(an attack must have preceded the sending of reinforcements from
the airport. The Friday November 2, 2012 Wall Street Journal
article seems to mention only one attack at the annex
during the wee hours – after the team rushes there – and
seems to attribute the death of the two Americans to an
11-minute attack some minutes after 5:15 am Libyan time.

It could be an editing problem, where a paragraph explaining
what caused the people at the airport to suddenly decide,
after several hours, to go to the annex, is left out.

Or it could be, partially because they talked to different
people, the reporters have not gotten the story straight.

Maybe both. It could be also that their sources assume
that Libya uses Daily Savings Time, but it does not, and
the 5:15 am attack takes place at 4:15 am Libyan time. Libya
should be six time zones ahead of the East Coast of the
United States, but it really is 7, because it is on
Egyptian time. If it doesn’t use Daily Savings Time,
that sets it back to six hours ahead during most of the
year, where it actually belongs.

Sometime in the wee hours: A drone watches this, but officials in Washington decide they
can’t tell friend from foe, from spectator, and this is all
in a residential neighborhood, so they decide to do nothing
from the air and rely on ground troops (The Quick Reaction
Force.) A possible consideration maybe that the range of
destruction from air power is usually much greater than
that of ground forces.

[Of course, even not knowing what the true loyalties of
various armed groups or their commanders are, and who
will stay out of any fight, and who won't, and where they
are, you can at least respond to someone who fires at
Americans, but this possibility is overlooked in any orders
that are issued.]

One member of local annex security on roof of annex was
manning a heavy machine gun when mortars fired at the CIA
compound. The security officer had a laser. He repeatedly
requests back-up support from a Spectre gunship (commonly
used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to
Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense
firefights) but gunship does not get involved, perhaps because
of prior contradictory order not to shoot till ordered to,
except in self-defense.

Person with
laser finally points it on target that is firing in hopes of
forcing intervention, or in desperation, but man who pointed the
laser gets killed. This is former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods.

Glenn Doherty is also killed during the attack, and others
severely wounded.

5:30 Ibn Febrayir gets a call from a Libyan official (is this the
deputy minister of the Interior for eastern Libya who has
four spellings of his name in the Latin alphabet, one of which
which is Wanis al-Sharef?) telling him a “foreign force” would
arrive by 6 a.m. and everyone near the “farm” would be treated
as hostile and they must get out before they arrive. He doesn’t,
and a mixed group of militia arrives. Ibn Febrayir isn’t sure he
can trust them.

??? People from annex evacuated. Three captured Libyan attackers are
handed over to one of the Libyan forces that arrives at the
scene and apparently freed immediately or later.

???? Ambassador’s body delivered to airport, and Defense Department
plane takes off from Benghazi Airport for Tripoli carrying
with it all Americans government employees based in Benghazi
(about 30 people, 7 of them on the State Department payroll,
and the rest on the CIA payroll, most with diplomatic
passports. All or most of thise based in Benghazi fly on
to Germany.)

??? State Department announces one American is dead. No public
statement of any kind is issued about anything till past
10:30 prompted by news that Mitt Romney is releasing a
statement, complaining about nothing being said.

Sep 12 day State Department and White House announce that Ambassador
and three others are dead.

CIA station chief in Libya says in cable that this had been
a terrorist attack.

Also: CIA sends Libyans to destroy sensitive documents at the
annex. Consulate, with less sensitive documents is left
exposed to looters, curiosity seekers, and western
reporters for weeks. Some documents taken by or sold to
American reporters. Among them: Notebook/diary of the
Ambassador where he expresses the thought that he is a
target of Al Qaeda and copy of message dated Sept 11
from the Embassy to the Libyan government stating that
guards had noticed a Libyan police officer across the
street photographing the inside of the special mission.
This was obtained by reporters the week of Oct 20-27. It
had previosly been reported that Sean Smith had complained
about that.

Sept. Annex abandoned after supposedly being scrubbed. Owners
move back inside by early October. (Man and wife and two
children) Refuse to comment to reporters. Neighbors never
knew this was any place important – never had any visible
guards, or extra security precautions or police presence.

Sept 13ff FBI interviews Benghazi evacuees.

Sept FBI delays arrival in Benghazi. Finally shows up weeks later.

Sept 14 CIA prepared Presidential briefing says that attack on
on consulate had been sparked by protest over a video
and was spontaneous and unplanned but possibly people
who had always had it in for U.S. took advantage of
the protest.

Sept 14-15 CIA does not incorporate into its analysis any information
gleaned from reports of interviews of Benghazi evacuees
conducted by the FBI, or anything anybody in Washington
might know first or second hand.

Sept 15-16 CIA intelligence analysis gets stronger and stronger
that this attack had not been planned in advance and
started with a (possibly unrelated) rapidly organized
protest about the You Tube video, done in imitation
of the one in Cairo.

Someone in the White House decides that this welcome news,
which could diminish criticism, should be publicized far
and wide and sends U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice out to all
the Sunday morning news interview shows.

(The sources for the CIA were sooper sekrit intelligence
they got from the same terrorist and Libyan government
informants they’d been using for months, confirmed by
published Libyan press reports and one cherry picked
Sept 11/12 telephone call from someone in Ansar al Sharia
to someone in Mali connected with Al Qaeda in which he
was told that he had watched the protest in Cairo before
the attack in Benghazi. (I thought earlier it was that he
he said this started with a protest about a video. We
don’t have a good report of exactly what was said in that
monitored telephone call. We do hear that only one call
backed up the protest theory. The U.S. was evidentally
monitoring Al Qaeda in Mali, not the people in Benghazi,
so wouldn’t know about any calls made anywhere else, like
to Cairo, Egypt.)

The informants may have been vouched for by the Saudis,
so the consequences of having been fooled by them may be
truly monumental. (My speculation. Of course, there never
was any reason at all to trust Saudi intelligence and
mistrust of the Saudis actually may have been what
prompted the Ambassador’s trip to Benghazi, as he was
trying to stop them from including ManPads in the arms
shipments they were sending to their favorite rebels in
Syria through Turkey. In fact, his instructions may have
been to try to stop the entire shipment if possible.)

[Saudi intelligence is now run by the man who probably killed
Vincent Foster on July 20, 1993 and then rushed to President
Clinton and persuaded him and Sandy Burglar to cover it up.

Source for that: reading between the lines of Fred Barnes
article in the March 14, 1994 New Republic. Key word: July.
And the fact that's it's a pack of lies. And the fact that
they ask people not to draw conclusions. And the timing of
the leak: Early March, 1994, right at the time of other
Foster case leaks.

And the fact that there would be a record of such a meeting
(somewhere) so that someone might feel impelled to place on
on the public record an exxplanation of the unscheduled
Clinton-Bandar meeting. But also the fact that it was ot
possible, using the Freedom of Information Act, to confirm
or refute the fact of this meeting, and even a round-about
attempt through a FOIA request to the State Department (om
the theory that if the purpose was legitimate there would be
some report sent to the State Department, but if it was not,
there would not be) was not answered until early in the Bush
Administration, and then provided no confirmation of this
meeting.]

Sept 16-22 CIA delays interviewing survivors from Bengazi who would
contradict their sooper sekrit intelligence. Eventually
begins doing it slowly, and they gradually revise their
assessment, without, however, walking back the cat. (using
the more old-fashioned meaning of the phrase)

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:17 am
No Sammy, the apology came before the protest, which was more likely occasioned by the AQ tape,

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:19 am
I don’t think Hillary is faking illness. I think her assassin screwed up.

Comment by CrustyB (69f730) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:20 am
Sammy… what the hell, dude. Give us a link, not ten feet of text.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:24 am
It’s from the Senate report on Benghazi, which is adequate to the purposes,

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:30 am
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/30/latest-senate-committee-report-on-benghazi-terrorist-attack-faults-state/

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:33 am
at first propaganda whore don lemon reported she felt dizzy so she went to hospital

but then he decided hoochie had herself some deep vein thrombosis in her leg

does thrombosis in your leg cause dizziness?

the foxenfriends say it mostly just feels like a charlie horse if you feel anything at all

Comment by happyfeet (e0d3f6) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:45 am
Clinton. You can get intracranial (sp?) blood clots from a fall; usually now these are surgically removed if they are large, small ones are watched in the hope they’ll go away. My guess is that it’s a blood clot in her leg, she’s had that before, and it’s prone to repeat.

Newtown. Bizarre mistakes are often made in the first day or two. There were some doozies.

Comment by htom (412a17) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:46 am
why does everything always have to be so opaque with her

Comment by happyfeet (e0d3f6) — 12/31/2012 @ 10:00 am
Sammy… what the hell, dude. Give us a link, not ten feet of text.

But then you might not read it.

Oh, wait…

Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/31/2012 @ 10:16 am
So, seeing as how we are giving up on the Constitution, how long before the NY Times suggests that the 22nd Amendment should be repealed? Or ignored?

Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/31/2012 @ 10:18 am
I think they’re too aware of the massive number of guns in America to propose ignoring the 22nd Amendment at this particular juncture.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 10:34 am
I have just watched President Barack Obama address the fiscal cliff negotiations before a friendly and highly partisan crowd. What a small, disrepectful, uninspirational, petty, non-truth telling man he is. I urge you to find a video and watch for yourselves if you did not see it live.

Comment by elissa (78f8c6) — 12/31/2012 @ 10:58 am
Well that worked out well;

http://freebeacon.com/the-ansar-al-sharia-threat/

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 11:02 am
More violence advocated by gun control activists. Is there any reason not to consider the threat of unconstitutional attacks on gun owners perfect justification for stocking up on arms and ammunition? Molon labe, dude, its not just for Spartans.

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 11:56 am
John Roberts already gave up on the constitution the rest of us don’t really get a vote

Comment by happyfeet (0e7893) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:05 pm
Elissa – A-freakin-men

Comment by JD (78d90b) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:23 pm
Treating Hillary’s clot:

An enema would be indicated!

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:29 pm
This is the gist of it;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/12/in-your-face-republicans/

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:32 pm
Comment by Arch (0baa7b) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:05 am

Someone needs to slog through the 27 autopsy reports to see the coronor’s determination of death.
A GSW from either a 9mm (Sig) or 10mm (Glock) pistol will be quite different than that of a 5.56/.223 round.
Have the coronor’s reports been made public yet?

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:36 pm
The “ban it” mentality really is a slippery slope.

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:39 pm
I’ve got a bunch of .223 ammo on order, but the pipeline is not being cooperative.
Good thing I stocked up on a substantial supply of 7.62NATO.

The Big-Dog shall roar!

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:41 pm
she can probably pick one of them up at the walmart and do it at home instead of running up her hospital bill

Comment by happyfeet (0e7893) — 12/31/2012 @ 12:45 pm
Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 9:19 am

No Sammy, the apology came before the protest,

I know that was earlier in the day, and later on, after the embassy had been breached and the (Al Qaeda?) flag run up whoever was managing the Twitter account for the embassy said they stood by what they said (not so much an apology as a protestation of innocence and repudiation of the video, which however amounts to an apology for freedom of religion here) And that stood as the U.S. government position as far as anybody knew

And there was no statement coming out of Washington, and Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney decided to issue a statement, but embargoed it for midnight, so that he wouldn’t be making any political statements on September 11th, but, possibly because they heard about it, the State Department rushed out a statement after 10 PM and so Mitt Romney lifted the embargo. They had been busy with Benghazi since 3:40 pm but it didn’t hit the news.

I was never clear at what stage the statement by the Cairo embassy was issued – I know it was before the embassy was stormed.

which was more likely occasioned by the AQ tape,

The apology was occasioned by the al Qaeda tape? The al Qaeda tape (you mean the Al Faroq? some kind of TV) said nothing about the video.

There were also two Al Qaeda videos, one on Sept 10, and one on Sept 11th.

The Muhammed video had been broadcast on Egyptian TV on Sept 9 I understand.

Somewhere they must have been told at the embassy there was going to be a big demonstration about the video. Was there even a scintillas of truth about that? And if so, what was the scintilla?

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (ce04e1) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:20 pm
44. One thing that’s been made public is that all the childen who died – not necessarily saying so for the teachers – had at least 3 bullet wounds.

There was at least one person who worked for the school who was wounded but not killed. She crawled back into the principal’s office.

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (ce04e1) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:23 pm
37. Can you get a transcript? I think maybe the White House might issue one.

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (ce04e1) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:24 pm
Paragraph poster, was that a novel?

Comment by mg (31009b) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:29 pm
Sammy, instead of posting walls-of-text, spend some time looking for that transcript you desire.

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:34 pm
happyfeet, I must say that I am offended – offended, sir – that you would use a word like “hoochie” when referring to our esteemed Secretary of State. OFFENDED, sir. Why, after all the stick you got for using the exact same word to describe Sarah Palin. I’m sure the objections are right on the verge of pouring in, by the way – just you wait!

Offended, sir. Irked, even.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:45 pm
Hill’s moral character would have a lot more defenders if her history didn’t include enabling Bill and blaming it all on the “Vast Right Wing Conspiracy”!

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:48 pm
Leviticus, we’ve not established just what happyfeet thinks “hoochie” means …

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:55 pm
Well, recalling the whole Palin dust-up, I am nonetheless offended, sir.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:58 pm
Your standards seem very flexible.

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 1:59 pm
I’m pretty sure happyfeet used “hoochie” for Palin too.

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:02 pm
He’s used that term to indict almost every female in public life.
It’s almost like the Boy Who Cried Wolfe.
Or, calling someone a Racist.
At some point, it just becomes background noise.

Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:07 pm
I’d bet that happyfeet has called me “hoochie” …

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:10 pm
Oh my God. YES. I KNOW. THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT.

Everybody got their feathers all ruffled up when happyfeet called Palin a “hoochie.” I don’t see anyone expending the same indignation defending Clinton.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:15 pm
I welcome happyfeets’s's’s sort of equal-opportunity contempt, by the way. I think it’s exactly what this country’s politics need. Respect for people of all political stripes, contempt for politicians of all political stripes.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:17 pm
Well, it’s different see because we don’t really like Clinton.

Comment by Pious Agnostic (20c167) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:17 pm
Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others. – Groucho Marx

Comment by Tillman (51d7aa) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:20 pm
Every woman who comments on this blog (and many of the males) has asked potty mouth feets to cool it with the whore and the hoochie words numerous times. He ignored those entreaties to change which therefore suggests he just does it for the attention and/or because such words give him a boner when he writes them. People can choose to be “offended”, or they can consider the source and decide to roll their eyes and ignore it. My advice is to take the latter approach.

Comment by elissa (78f8c6) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:28 pm
It’s sometimes easy to forget just what a prick this president is.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:34 pm
Hillary’s problem is she would be honest before congress. She has been all along.

For some values of “all along”. She wasn’t very honest with Congress about the Rose Law Firm billing records, now was she?

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:39 pm
both dem hoochies, what they do is, they look out for #1 … and politics is just a means to that end for these ones

but they have lots of company

Comment by happyfeet (0e7893) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:41 pm
Or her affinity for the Yankees, about which a small book was written. V entertaining, too.

Comment by Gazzer (4c4ae2) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:41 pm
here is the song Mr. SPQR

m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=TCZF640bVco&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTCZF640bVco

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:46 pm
#25. Sammy, you have got a problem

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:47 pm
elissa,

Were you similarly offended when Steve57 called Sandra Fluke a skank and a slut?

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:53 pm
I’m sorry: I mean, did you “consider the source” and decide to say nothing then, too?

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:54 pm
Sandra Fluke is famous entirely because someone called her names

it’s a crazy world

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 2:55 pm
Yup

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:03 pm
I don’t understand why it’s so impossible for Team R to coordinate a message about the fiscal cliff thingy

it’s really worrisome in what that reveals

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:05 pm
meanwhile democrats and their propaganda whores are making damn sure every american is exposed to the phrase “House Republicans” in a derisive context at a frequency of about 3+ times per hour of media exposure

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:13 pm
Leviticus–please let it go. You appear to be determined to pick fights today. With pretty much everybody. I said all I had to say up in #65. In my opinion, people who spend their lives barking and pontificating, or conversely feeling perpetually “offended”, by what total strangers say, are kind of sad to watch.

Happy New Year one and all.

Comment by elissa (78f8c6) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:16 pm
Fine. Happy New Year, elissa.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:19 pm
that diner in Valley Girl is still there

Dupar’s… It’s in Studio City on ventura

It’s a guilty pleasure cause of how good their pancakes are but usually I just take people who are visiting… The pancakes are a lifestyle choice is how good they are

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:33 pm
The “ban it” mentality really is a slippery slope.

BTW the article is more than 7 years old.

And maybe Hillary is a hoochie, so there’s no need to object to feets calling her one. I don’t know, because I’m not quite sure what a “hoochie” is. I just know it’s an insult, and therefore I get offended when he calls Palin one, because she doesn’t deserve insults. The Wicked Witch of Westchester (formerly known as Lady Macbeth) certainly deserves many insults; perhaps “hoochie” is one of them.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:41 pm
This isn’t much help.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:43 pm
Hahahahaha… well, you’re a smart guy, Milhouse. Why don’t you look it up, then tell us (definitively and indisputably, of course) whether or not the term properly applies to Hillary Clinton.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:44 pm
Whoops. Good, you already took that upon yourself.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:45 pm
Were you similarly offended when Steve57 called Sandra Fluke a skank and a slut?

No, because she is one. Probably not a literal slut, but certainly a metaphorical one. That was Limbaugh’s mistake, confusing the two.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:45 pm
Try Urban Dictionary.

Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:45 pm
there’s a helpful song at #70 Mr. Milhouse…

I will try and link it more better here

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:47 pm
fail

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:47 pm
Maybe this works, the Slate music reviewers are totally clueless,what else is new,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NKUpo_xKyQ

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:51 pm
Ah, see from the song I’d assume that “hoochie mama” is the inhabitant of a hooch in the 3rd sense given, or perhaps, by a sort of fusion of that meaning of “hooch” with this one, it might mean the proprietress of a shebeen.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:56 pm
I love her more than beans Mr. narciso have you heard her new one?

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:56 pm
Get Well GHWB.
Get serious Lady Pant Dress.

Comment by mg (31009b) — 12/31/2012 @ 3:57 pm
a hoochie mama is distinct from a respectable woman is the key thing Mr. Milhouse… cause of she made bad choices

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:01 pm
Cnn is saying Hillary has a clot in her brain area

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:04 pm
it doesn’t seem super serious really

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:05 pm
Ah, but I wouldn’t think to associate “hoochie” with “hoochie mama”, because surely in that phrase the woman so described is a “mama” (in some sense) of a “hoochie”, which would be some sort of location. No?

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:07 pm
It can’t be super-serious or it might interfere with 2016. That can’t be allowed.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:08 pm
Nonono

hoochie is just short for hoochie mama

they’re the same thing

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:09 pm
I mean a “welfare queen” isn’t a “welfare”. And a “disco queen” isn’t a “disco”.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:11 pm
nevertheless

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:20 pm
This can’t possibly go wrong;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20877983

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 4:28 pm
Patterico’s Pontifications is listed in my upcoming blog post “What Didn’t Suck About 2012.” In the meantime, check in and take a look around.

BTW: Thanks again, JD, for your kind words and support.

Comment by L.N. Smithee (ff9043) — 12/31/2012 @ 5:00 pm
My point was not that it was or was not acceptable to call either Palin or Clinton “hoochie”. My point was that its pretty clear that the word has one meaning for happyfeet and a different one for the rest of the world. And not necessarily a consistent one for happyfeet.

Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/31/2012 @ 5:05 pm
When I was in high school in the late 70s I remember many intense conversations with friends of the Southern Babtist persuasion who were very knowledgeable about the book of Revelations and all it predicted about the coming Apocalypse.

Not being a Believer myself, all it did was sort-of scare me, but one thing I do remember is that they were totally certain that the Anti-Christ would become the President after suffering some sort of head wound.

I can’t help but wonder if my old high school chums and their co-coreligionist are checking off “head-wound” on their Spot-The-AntiChrist Bingo cards.

Comment by Pious Agnostic (20c167) — 12/31/2012 @ 5:16 pm
#9 Comment by Kevin M

All magazines I have seen are either stamped steel that is crimped / spot welded together with channels on the bottom so the bottom plate can be removed for cleaning ect.. Or made from plastic with a removable bottom plate.

I am being technical here, but milling a magazine is just beyond crazy. First off it would take forever to whittle that large steel, aluminum etc.. billet down to size. It would be the most expensive ammo mag in the world though. I am not saying it can’t be done, I am saying it would take a ton of work and a ton more work after that.

I am sure the world market would keep the US supplied with underground magazines that cost far less then making our own.

Other than that, your comment is spot on.

Comment by MSL (5f601f) — 12/31/2012 @ 5:22 pm
I saw Bowie’s American debut at the Santa Monica Civic in 1972. Great show. All Spiders from Mars.

Comment by AZ Bob (28c32d)

LOL… I wasn’t that quick, but did catch him at the Long Beach Arena in March of ’73. Such a unique experience… great show and weird peeps… I remember some male fan wearing a speedo and painted head to toe in gold paint.

Comment by Colonel Haiku (7faf9d) — 12/31/2012 @ 5:30 pm
Fluke me runnin’… fluke me to tears… enuf about that moron, already.

Comment by Colonel Haiku (7faf9d) — 12/31/2012 @ 5:32 pm
We have had this problem one way or another since 1999.

How do you say the year?

Is it:

A. Two-thousand and Twelve

B. Two Thousand Twelve

C. Twenty Twelve

D. Nineteen One Hundred and Twelve

E. Nineteen One Twelve.

If it changes depending on the year, at what year do you….

1) drop the “and”

AND

2) change from Two thousand to Twenty?

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (0e1021) — 12/31/2012 @ 6:26 pm
78. Happy New Year.

There, all the optimism I can muster for the end of a fairly crappy year only to see in a fouler one.

Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/31/2012 @ 6:36 pm
37. Comment by elissa (78f8c6) — 12/31/2012 @ 10:58 am = 1:58 PM EST

I have just watched President Barack Obama address the fiscal cliff negotiations before a friendly and highly partisan crowd. What a small, disrepectful, uninspirational, petty, non-truth telling man he is. I urge you to find a video and watch for yourselves if you did not see it live.

I think this is the transcript:

Remarks by the President on the Fiscal Cliff Negotiations 1:45 P.M> Dec 31, 2012

This part might make news

….my principle has always been let’s do things in a balanced, responsible way. And that means that revenues have to be part of the equation in turning off the sequester, in eliminating these automatic spending cuts, as well as spending cuts.

Now, the same is true for any future deficit agreement…..For example, I’m willing to reduce our government’s Medicare bills by finding new ways to reduce the cost of health care in this country. That’s something that we all should agree on….But that kind of reform has to go hand-in-hand with doing some more work to reform our tax code so that wealthy individuals, the biggest corporations can’t take advantage of loopholes and deductions that aren’t available to most of the folks standing up here — aren’t available to most Americans. So there’s still more work to be done in the tax code to make it fairer…..

Now, if Republicans think that I will finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone — and you hear that sometimes coming from them, that sort of after today we’re just going to try to shove only spending cuts down — well — (laughter) — shove spending cuts at us that will hurt seniors, or hurt students, or hurt middle-class families, without asking also equivalent sacrifice from millionaires or companies with a lot of lobbyists, et cetera — if they think that’s going to be the formula for how we solve this thing, then they’ve got another thing coming. That’s not how it’s going to work….

…..for now, our most immediate priority is to stop taxes going up for middle-class families, starting tomorrow. I think that is a modest goal that we can accomplish…..

…..END 1:56 P.M. EST

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (0e1021) — 12/31/2012 @ 6:52 pm
some random propaganda slut on cnn talking to a very lifelike blitzersaurus keeps assuring us that obama would never ever ever want to say or do anything to derail this deal

i don’t know what she’s basing that on

Comment by happyfeet (ae1213) — 12/31/2012 @ 6:59 pm
‘Drinking heavily’ possibly at the Sawyer level,

Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:02 pm
Just observing from afar, I’d hazard Mr. Palin and Mr. Bachmann seem very happily married with large, handsome, reasonably happy families.

Doubt those ladies give a rip what we think of them.

Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:05 pm
I don’t think Obama’s statement makes the situation much worse. He just announced that stopping the sequester and all other negotiations will be a big problem. It might be he announced it because he thinks announcing it now will make it a littler problem later.

If Senator Mitch McConnell was advising Republicans to just get rid of the tax question – pass a bill to maintain income taxes at their current level for those reporting an annual income below $250,000, no make that $400,000 or even $500,000 – whatever you think the president will sign – and the rest will be easier, he’s telling them no. He intends to take a tough line.

However, this could also be seen as a willingness to compromise. Maybe he’ll sign something leaving the dividing point at $500,000 but he wants to say he wants to go lower. If so, he’s practically made it mandatory that the bill has to leave in reserve some taxes to raise.

Obama sounds like he wants the limits on deductions – which Republicans hope(d) to trade for lower tax rates.

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (0e1021) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:09 pm
at what year do you….
1) drop the “and”
AND
2) change from Two thousand to Twenty?

In Twenty Oh-One. Even I didn’t say “Twenty Hundred”.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:11 pm
So far nobody’s even talking about cutting spending, by even one lousy dollar. Until they do, they’re not serious and there’s no reason to give them anything.

Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/31/2012 @ 7:14 pm
All these people in Washington (in Congress anyway) think going over the Fiscal Cliff will cause a recession.

They are all Keynesians now, as Richard Nixon said in 1969 I think. (he said we)

Comment by Sammy Finkelman (0e1021) — 12/31/2012 @ 8:52 pm

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12/30/2012

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