Patterico's Pontifications

9/29/2010

Meg Whitman’s Former Maid: I Worked for Whitman While Illegal and She Knew It (Oh — And Fired Me When She Found Out)

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:50 pm

Allahpundit has the rundown, keeping track of the details so I don’t have to.

237 Responses to “Meg Whitman’s Former Maid: I Worked for Whitman While Illegal and She Knew It (Oh — And Fired Me When She Found Out)”

  1. It’s a load of crap, IMO. The maid got the mail and is a documented fraud. There’s proof she told Meg she was a legal worker, providing fake documents. She has zero credibility.

    I assume the mail indicating her numbers didn’t match was intercepted by the maid/fraud. It just doesn’t make sense that Whitman would knowingly keep an illegal alien maid while pursuing politics (And that’s exactly what the maid’s timeline suggests). Further, Meg did fire her for being an illegal.

    Seems pretty obvious what’s going on here. Gloria Allred likes October surprises on Republicans running for this specific office.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  2. Yes, she pulled ths same stunt on Schwartzenegger

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  3. It was pretty cold though how the lady worked for her for nine years and then Meg just through her out like she was trash. I remember when I was little quizzing our cleaning lady to help her study for her citizenship test. Then one time like 8 years later after college me and some friends pulled into a quickie mart in refugio and this little lady barrels into me and hugs me to pieces and it was R! It was a very happy day to see her again she looked great.

    I guess when you’re Meg Whitman treating people like dirt is different cause you’re super important and you’re rich enough to buy a governorship and you have a special ringtone just for when Meghan’s coward daddy calls.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  4. I don’t really get the scandal here. Can anyone explain it?

    Patterico (984c77)

  5. What’s amusing is that this mail is property of Meg Whitman. How in the hell does the maid have it? How does Gloria have it?

    Why the cloak and dagger, not even knowing for sure what year it’s from?

    Gloria probably realizes how foolish it would be to admit to having someone else’s mail. I doubt Meg ever saw that notification. It may not even exist. Outside parties can’t verify those letters with the IRS or SSA.

    It’s a lawsuit timed to make political hay. Lawsuit has the imprimatur of seriousness, even when it’s crap. But at the end of the day, all we know for sure is that Meg wouldn’t hire this woman until she showed documentation of being legal, paid her extremely well ($23 an hour), implying she was not taking advantage of some cheap labor, and fired her for being illegal far later than getting into politics. Oh, and we also know that the source of these accusations was willing to steal someone’s identity, lie on an application, and now wants a huge payout for the abuse of being paid much more than she could have earned but for her fraud.

    But that’s why this is an Octoberish surprise. If there was an actual scandal here, it would have been brought forward earlier instead of later.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  6. *threw* her out I mean

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  7. is there a lawsuit Mr. Dustin I missed that so far

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  8. I don’t really get the scandal here. Can anyone explain it?

    Comment by Patterico

    There are two scandalous claims, as far as I know.

    One is that she was mean to the illegal immigrant, or abusive. She told the lady they don’t know eachother anymore, and fired her. I’d do worse if I were in her shoes. But I guess we’re meannies.

    The other is that Meg is so outspoken against amnesty, and some think any possible scintilla of hypocrisy proves that she’s somehow an unfit leader, opportunist, dishonest, etc. She employed an illegal, and some will pretend there is proof she knew about it, given the claim that she knew about it in 2003.

    My reaction to that is: how does Gloria Allred know that? How did the maid know that? Oh, because the fraud intercepted the Whitman family’s mail as part of her work? Gee, I wonder what happened there.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  9. Dustin

    Well, if you listen to the version straight from the housekeeper she just says that in 2009 she told her she was illegal. Whitman apparently liked her enough that she asked her lawyer to see if he could help her. then a few days later she said, “i can’t do crud for you, you are fired.” that’s a paraphrase, obviously.

    That is version one, from the LA Times.

    Then version two is from CBS news, from her lawyer. The fame whore gloria allred. Need i say more?

    the lamest part is that allred said that part of why she should have figured out she was illegal was because she couldn’t leave the country.

    Hey, guess what? i can’t leave the country, either. i don’t have a passport. And frankly i am not planning to get one anytime soon.

    But i think the true import is to try to insinuate that whitman mistreated this hispanic woman in some way, to harm her among latino voters. We’ll see.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  10. The scandal according to Gloria Allred is that Whitman firmly stated at the debates last night that she is against illegal immigration and is running on that platform yet knowingly and willfully hired one. For nine years.

    And this has nothing to do with politics. (*insert Allred’s righteous indignation that you would even consider that!)

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  11. Happyfeet, a lot of stories indicated she was already suing.

    It seems they are backtracking and saying they are saying Nicky Diaz Santilla will sue later for discrimination and “suffering”.

    So I stand corrected. I have no idea if there’s a lawsuit yet, but there certainly is a legal threat.

    It’s dirtbag politics for a lawyer supporting one candidate to sue the other for something like this. For one thing, it’s not good for the client, IMO.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  12. @ happyfeet,

    It was pretty cold though how the lady worked for her for nine years and then Meg just through her out like she was trash.

    What makes you believe Gloria Allred and the maid? What proof do you have other than they said that’s what happened? Might they have an ulterior motive in this?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  13. I don’t think they have grounds to sue… I wonder what Nicky is getting out of the deal.

    I still think there’s a lesson here to be more nicer to your housekeepers cause they’re people too plus they might later hook up with hoochie lawyers and do a number on you.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  14. Well, if you listen to the version straight from the housekeeper she just says that in 2009 she told her she was illegal. Whitman apparently liked her enough that she asked her lawyer to see if he could help her. then a few days later she said, “i can’t do crud for you, you are fired.” that’s a paraphrase, obviously.

    Sadly, some are going to say this is totally unacceptable, but I don’t blame Whitman for consulting her lawyer first, whether it was an attempt to help the illegal become a legal worker, or just because of the legal stakes.

    Still blowing my mind that Jerry Brown is even in contention.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  15. Another point: one major problem in our society is that people do take advantage of illegal aliens. Paying them next to nothing, screwing them over at the drop of a hat, etc.

    Gloria Allred is willing to abuse that notion over a woman who had a great job and was paid very well. Why isn’t Allred suing illegals who actually are screwed because they have nowhere to turn? Because she doesn’t give a crap about their cause if it doesn’t get democrats elected.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  16. I believe there’s going to be a shred of truth here – I’m sure Nicky is rationalizing her vindictiveness by dint of how Meg could’ve treated her better. And being fired from a 23 buck an hour will have been one of the more tragic events of Nicky’s while life I would bet.

    But meanwhile Meg is a nasty pseudo Team R McCain trollop what thinks she can buy a statehouse. It’s kinda cool to watch her get slapped up her head by the maid like she was a common ho.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  17. *whole* life I mean

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  18. I agree with Dana. In a close election like this, it will matter if just 1% of GOP voters question whether Whitman is worth their vote.

    However, this smells fishy because it looks like Whitman hired this employee through an employment agency. I really, really don’t want to hire illegal household workers but my concern level would go down significantly if I used an employment agency to screen the applicants, especially in the last 10 years when enforcement was clearly on the radar for companies that provide household and similar labor.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  19. I still think there’s a lesson here to be more nicer to your housekeepers cause they’re people too plus they might later hook up with hoochie lawyers and do a number on you.

    What did Whitman do that was so wrong? She unknowingly hired an illegal immigrant. She trusted the employment agency and the 1099 was filled out, a CA drivers license provided, etc. She is told by the maid 9 years later that she was illegal, and Whitman terminates her.

    Should she have instead contacted Homeland or ICE and had her immediately deported?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  20. happyfeet,

    Why do you make up crazy attacks like that?

    Meg went to her lawyer to try to help the person who defrauded her family and is now trying to harm her aspirations.

    And you say that’s treating her like trash? What in the hell? She was plenty nice to her employee. She paid her well. That’s how it works. When you defraud your employer, they terminate your employment and say that’s the end of the relationship.

    I don’t know what you’re relying on to spread filthy nasty lies about good people. Perhaps the illegal who defrauded people and stole their mail said something you believe?

    I just don’t get why you add in hateful motivations like that. It’s totally unnecessary.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  21. Dana I’m sure she could have helped the lady in some way but she sure didn’t did she? can you imagine if Christy O had employed an illegal alien maid?

    Boy would she have some splainins to do.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  22. Whitman also stated that she purposely made it known to the agency that wanted to make sure the selected maid was able to legally work in the United States. When one hires via an employment agency, part of the service is that they do the paperwork and verify the legality of the employee. That is what Whitman paid them for.

    Perhaps another reason for e-verify, eh?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  23. OK, here we go. Happyfeet talking about slapping Meg around like a common whore, how she’s a nasty Team R trollop.

    Because she has a vagina rather than a penis, Meg Whitman gets the special treatment again.

    Happyfeet is basing his attack on absolutely nothing but the word of a fraud. What’s so nasty about his attack is that he’s treating Meg extremely unfairly, but whining that Meg should have treated the maid better. Even though all the evidence suggests Meg treated her really quite well, and had no choice but to terminate her. It’s the freaking law.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  24. There’s another issue here… Allred has publicly stated that this woman is an illegal alien.

    Is she now going to face criminal charges, at the very least for being in the country illegally, and perhaps also for fraud or something similar if Whitman can prove that the housekeeper represented herself as legal?

    Allred may not have done her client any good, quite the opposite in fact, she may have dropped her client in some really hot water.

    And all to get Jerry Brown elected. Gotta love those “compassionate” lefties.

    ConservativeWanderer (4e2a1e)

  25. Dana I’m sure she could have helped the lady in some way but she sure didn’t did she?

    happyfeet, paying an illegal immigrant $24/hour for 9 years seems like she really, really did help the lady. No?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  26. Dana I’m sure she could have helped the lady in some way but she sure didn’t did she? can you imagine if Christy O had employed an illegal alien maid?

    Boy would she have some splainins to do.

    Comment by happyfeet

    LOL, outlaw, right?

    pfft.

    She helped the lady by paying her well for her work. And the lady lied on her application, defrauding her employer. By ‘do something for her’, I guess you mean pay her hush money? That may work in team outlaw, but I want honest leaders.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  27. Allred may not have done her client any good, quite the opposite in fact, she may have dropped her client in some really hot water.

    That’s true. Allred is screaming from the rooftops that her client committed a crime. Why do that? To electioneer. So she’s screwing her client over.

    Meg Whitman treated this maid so much better than her new friends are.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  28. Dustin

    Bluntly the lawsuit is a stunt. I would NEVER take on a case where the client is an established fraud.

    I mean the cross examination is downright predictable.

    Q: you claimed that you were a legal immigrant on the I-9 form.
    A: yes.
    Q: that wasn’t the truth was it?
    A: no.
    Q: but you wanted the job, right?
    Answer is either yes, or evasion. Doesn’t matter. The jury would know what the truth is. One secret of cross examination is that it is not about what the witness says. It is really the attorney’s chance to “testify” using the witness as a foil.

    Then eventually you come around to this.
    Q: Now in this suit you are claiming damages of $______, right?
    A: yes.
    Q: And you have admitted to lying on your application about being a legal immigrant, right?
    Again, she can deny it, but it is useless and will only make her look worse if she does.
    Q: You lied when it was in your financial interest to do so, didn’t you?
    Again, she can say yes or harm her credibility.
    Q: So why should this jury believe you, here, when your story might earn you $_______.

    Credibility shot.

    Indeed you calling her a fraud raises a good point. Whitman might be able to make a case out for fraud against the maid. That is another reason why I would tell the maid not to sue, if I was her lawyer. if Whitman sues her, then that means that she would be trapped in the case until Whitman lets her out. She would be forced to keep paying for a lawyer or defend herself at the risk of losing any money Whitman sought from her. And on top of that, under Virginia law, you can recover attorneys fees and court costs when you can allege fraud. I wonder if California law allows for that?

    The only trouble there is damages, but she could claim all kinds of things. Like if she loses the governor’s race, could she claim that THIS was consequential damages. So in a real way, this maid had better hope that Whitman wins.

    Allred has given her client enormously bad advice. So much so that I am actually concerned about her ethics, here. I think allred put her fame whoring before her client’s actual interests.

    Unless the maid just wants to harm Whitman and the hell with the money. That would be allred’s defense. I mean sometimes clients get so emotional that they do not act rationally. But this lawsuit is irrational, unless alred has so great documentary evidence.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  29. Dana I’m sure she could have helped the lady in some way but she sure didn’t did she?

    happyfeet, paying an illegal immigrant $24/hour $23/hour for 9 years seems like she really, really did help the lady, no?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  30. are we sure there’s any kind of lawsuit involved at all? I would bet the lawyer is just to make sure the maid stays out of slander/libel territory or whatever

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  31. Hm….

    Allred refused to show documents proving her statements but said Whitman could easily disprove the claims by showing the correct paperwork.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  32. I’m sure it’s possible Meg was very nice to the fired lady, Dana.

    But she wasn’t as nice as I would’ve been.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  33. Happy

    > Dana I’m sure she could have helped the lady in some way but she sure didn’t did she?

    I know enough about immigration law to say, no, she really couldn’t have made her into a legal immigrant, if that is what you mean.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  34. According to the document reproduced at Gateway Pundit, the maid swore under penalty of perjury that she was legal to work in the U.S., had a valid Calif. driver’s license and insurance, had been in the country since 1990, etc.

    Sara (Pal2Pal) (4d3f49)

  35. So we’re to take the word of someone who has committed the following crimes:
    Entering the country illegally
    staying in the country illegally
    seeking work illegally
    committing identity theft (as a victim of ID theft, I’m not to keen on people who steal it)
    And possible mail fraud/theft

    Darin H (a090d6)

  36. But she wasn’t as nice as I would’ve been.

    I’m sure that’s true, happyfeet, but unfortunately the law has very little to do with being nice.

    And let’s talk about how not-nice the maid was to lie to Meg Whitman and her family. She misled them, allowed the children to become attached to her, and jeopardized the family by knowingly allowing them to hire an illegal alien. Not nice. Not nice at all.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  37. Darin

    Well, to be fair, it might not have been identify theft. i mean its not theft if i willingly give you permission to impersonate me.

    But its identity fraud for sure.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  38. I dunno Mr. A.W. it seems like there’s stuff you can do to help poor Lupe or Maria. No?

    oh hey I just heard a thunder. You have no idea how rare that is here.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  39. I’m sure that’s true, happyfeet

    I’m not so sure. Not trying to harp on happyfeet, but he is so angry all the time, particularly towards women. I would hate to be a woman he just caught defrauding his family for years.

    Maybe I just don’t read his attempt at humor correctly, but just about any employer would be very angry at an employee who did what Nicky Diaz Santilla did. I’m amazed Meg said ‘let me see if I can help you’. And it also sounds like Santilla was loved by the whole Whitman family, and Meg was worried this would distress her children.

    The impression I get is that Whitman opened her life up to Santilla, and made her part of the family. Not much to go on, but that’s the take I get. Imagine your kids playing with someone who had stolen an identify for years and defrauded you all the while. Meg went above and beyond not to have her placed in police custody. Paying an attorney to try to help her out? Wow.

    Happyfeet must be far nicer to women in person than he is on the internet, if he thinks this was unkind treatment.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  40. But she wasn’t as nice as I would’ve been.

    Yeah, she should have been as nice as Allred, who’s using the poor lady as a pawn in an October(ish) Surprise attempt.

    And, for that matter, happyfeet, you’re also using her as a pawn right here, right now.

    If that’s your idea of “being nice,” please, don’t try to be nice to me. :)

    ConservativeWanderer (4e2a1e)

  41. Except, happyfeet, she did not meet the requirements as she only worked 15 hours per week, and was not a live-in:

    The employer must prove that your employment as a live in household worker is a business necessity.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  42. I’m super duper nice to women I love them to pieces and we work great together even it’s just Team R has been producing a bum crop lately.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  43. i mean its not theft if i willingly give you permission to impersonate me.

    I just assume that Nicky Santilla did not receive this permission.

    I’m afraid I’m not up to date on this issue. Is it common practice for illegals to get permission from the person whose credentials they claim?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  44. I’m super duper nice to women I love them to pieces

    Sounds like something Ted Bundy would say.

    And if you’re basing this on Meg Whitman not being a good enough conservative, then you’re being extremely unfair to a woman. You’re talking about how funny it is if she’s slapped around like a common whore.

    I recall you are this harsh to some men, too. Mccain in particular. But Meg treated this fraud with more respect than you’re treating Meg. That’s my opinion, anyway.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  45. Happy

    in my office we deal with immigration issues all the time. We hire alot of nurses from foreign countries.

    First problem: They can’t already be here illegally.

    Second problem: She has to show that she couldn’t hire person who is legally present for the same job (except with nurses–special rule for that profession). On these facts, she would have to be lying to say that.

    I didn’t say there was nothing she could do lightly. i know the law enough to know there was nothing she could do.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  46. so here’s a story

    about a ginormous foreheaded lady, who was busy with two kids and selling stuff on eBay oh and also she had a husband – they were four rich white people, living all together

    but their house looked like hell

    then one day this ginormous foreheaded lady met this housekeeper named Nicky, and the kids liked her and also she could cook

    But Nicky, they found out she didn’t have a green card – so they fired her ass

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  47. happy

    So? And? where is the scandal.

    I mean besides your seething hate for her forehead, where’s the beef?

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  48. It’s a sad story, happyfeet, and I feel badly for the maid that this is the story she chose to write.

    On the other hand, she was gainfully employed making a very good hourly wage for 9 years. Maybe I missed it during the press conference but I didn’t hear her giving any thanks to Whitman for that.

    Nor did I hear any remorse for having lied for 9 years to one who did treat her so well.

    Perhaps she meant to say something about thanks, appreciation, and regret about lying but it slipped her mind because she was distracted by the timing of her tears and dreaming about how much money she might get paid by Mrs. Allred, who was so nice to her.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  49. happyfeet’s freeform is tiresome like quarrywork sometimes. My strawberry scones say such and such about the hoochie mamas.

    Birdbath (8501d4)

  50. Feets has a habit of slandering decent people as ‘loose’ women, and even attacking cancer survivors, why would today be any different

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  51. ok A.W. you’re probably right but that doesn’t explain why she paid 2 and a half BILLION dollars for skype

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  52. ohnoes. hey did you know that Meg has a history of violence against women?

    brb

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  53. happyfeet,

    Your link addresses when an applicant can get a green card/work visa. My guess is this provision is designed for employers who want to bring live-in nannies into the U.S. who are not already here. But let’s assume it might somehow apply to persons already illegally in the country. I don’t think Whitman or the employee could satisfy this required provision:

    The employer must prove that your employment as a live in household worker is a business necessity.

    The employment documents I’ve seen (and linked in an earlier comment) indicate Whitman’s employee did not want to be a live-in worker when she applied. She was hired anyway, which suggests Whitman neither needed nor required that she work as live-in help. Thus, even if the employee was willing to live in, it doesn’t sound like Whitman would be able to claim she needed a live-in worker. Presumably this would be even more true 9 years later when Whitman’s children were older.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  54. In June 2007, while preparing for an interview with Reuters, Whitman allegedly shoved her subordinate, communications employee Young Mi Kim. Of the incident, Whitman related, “In any high-pressure working environment, tensions can surface.” Kim also stated, “Yes, we had an unfortunate incident, but we resolved it in a way that speaks well for her and for eBay”. The matter was resolved after a six-figure settlement.*

    whoa.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  55. DRJ

    see my response at #45. that is why whitman couldn’t do anything for her. i guarantee her lawyer said that to her.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  56. DRJ, I also pointed out that the maid worked 15 hours per week thus could not have been a live-in .

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  57. I get that DRJ but still, this is an unsettling glimpse into the world of the rich and powerful where people can be tossed away after 9 years like really really really really old sour cream that just sat in the back of the fridge forever to where mold won’t even grow on it anymore.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  58. happyfeet,

    You have repeatedly frowned and frothed at O’Donnell for her misrepresentations an yet here you are defending and justifying the maid’s misrepresentation of 9 years and making the non-liar the guilty party.

    There should be some consistency in your principles and judgments, it would seem.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  59. happyfeet, that shoving does make Whitman look pretty bad. People F up sometimes, and there’s a major example.

    Not sure what it’s got to do with Whitman, but hey, it’s so much fun to see her slapped around like a common whore, right?

    Oh wait, that would be violence towards a women though.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  60. I mean, not sure what it’s got to do with Whitman’s main.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  61. huh? I haven’t frowned and frothed at Christy O at all at all. I promise. I bet I would’ve though if John Cornyn’s NRSC hadn’t done her so dirty. And I won’t even hint at why I bet I would’ve. But after the NRSC’s display of shameless poncey clubbery I’ve endeavored to keep a judicious silence with respect to Christy O.

    But ask me what I think about lying Mike Castle-lurving snuffleupagus-looking Jersey trash doughboy Chris Christie.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  62. Well, I’ll be gobsmacked. A rich person hired somebody that turned out to be illegal.

    Get the smelling salts, I feel faint.

    Also confused. Isn’t that what we’re supposed to do, anyway?

    I mean, we’re not supposed to defend the borders so all the poor folk from Mexico, et al, can find work and get amnesty and everything.

    Can someone point me to the problem? I can’t seem to find it.

    Ag80 (93f9d9)

  63. True, you have kept the frothing to a minimum about Christine; Cornyn’s minions rightly deserve contempt, part of the clique

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  64. obviously Dustin Meg has a pattern of mistreating subordinates, at times violently.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  65. Well, I appreciate the equal opportunity Chris Christie bashing.

    Love that guy, though. Doing more for the cause than just about anybody alive.

    It says a lot when someone boasts that they keep a judicious silence on christy O, but hate Chris Christie’s trashiness.

    If you want a crooked and incompetent government full of slimeballs, let Happyfeet pick our leaders and weed out all the good guys.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  66. Hey, yeah, Ag80, isn’t that the reason we have to let illegals in, to do “The Jobs Americans Won’t Do”?

    ConservativeWanderer (4e2a1e)

  67. happyfeet, I got tired scanning 50 or so comments but here were a few,

    http://patterico.com/2010/09/19/is-the-case-for-christine-odonnell-better-made-on-character-or-issues/#comments

    you wanna unfixate me you have that woman disavow any desire to molest our presidency with her smarmy panderings
    Comment by happyfeet — 9/19/2010 @ 4:24 pm

    but I should like to think that if the odious pandering tart got the nomination that Team R would support her but I rather imagine many would not. Because she’d be a pretty wretched choice.

    Comment by happyfeet — 9/19/2010 @ 4:46 pm

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  68. “I don’t really get the scandal here. Can anyone explain it?”

    Yeah, isn’t it pretty normal for upper income people to have undocumented servants like maids, gardeners, etc..?

    imdw (25d965)

  69. Hey I think Mr. Christie is a wonderful governor of NJ but that’s where he needs to be for the foreseeable future.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  70. happyfeet,

    I have had one long-time household employee that I paid generously, treated like a family member and rewarded with gifts at Christmas, her birthday, and when she retired. I might have done that even if she had left my employ under circumstances like this but fortunately I didn’t face that situation. I know I would have felt betrayed by an employee who took my money, friendship and affection and then put me in legal jeopardy.

    I understand your concern for household employees. It’s a special relationship to bring someone into your home and trust them with your children, pets, and personal possessions. But the trust goes both ways and I think your perspective only sees one way.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  71. Dana those are both about Palin

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  72. Yes, it’s sad really, kind of a cry for attention, from a disgruntled mogwai

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  73. DRJ I think God sends people into our lives for a reason and I think Meg sorta doesn’t believe that

    which brings up the question of what the hell am I supposed to do with new other guy at work? He’s almost on my last nerve already. Maybe he was sent to get me off my ass about looking for a new job.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  74. $23 per hour? F***ing b***h. No wonder my nanny is demanding a raise. Off with Meg’s Head!!!!!!!!

    Heavensent (4f78d0)

  75. Oh happyfeet, my apologies. I didn’t read enough of the prior comments (to which you were responding to). Plus, I should have known Palin would be your go-to target even if the post itself was about O’Donnell. :)

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  76. Dana, it wasn’t just about Palin. This is just more misogyny for impure Republicans. And besides, he would treat people better (despite, I guess the verbal abuse the fellow emits). He says.

    Eric Blair (2e5551)

  77. I’m kind of a dog with a bone I guess

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  78. Or not.

    Eric Blair (2e5551)

  79. happy, I’m just fascinated with your non concern about the lie of the maid and reluctance to assign her culpability in this and rather put the weight of the matter entirely on the unknowing Whitman. Is this because Whitman is so wealthy and secure that you feel she can more easily absorb the impact than the maid? Or that perhaps because of said wealth and security, she should be willing to bear the burden for her?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  80. …or is even obligated to bear the burden for her?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  81. Actually, imdw, it is pretty normal.

    That’s the friggin’ problem. You seem to want it to be about the people you politically oppose.

    It’s a problem because it is normal, no matter the political persuasion of the whoever you hate because of their beliefs.

    No other state in the world allows borders as porous as ours. For you, its a feature. For the rest of us, it means something.

    Being an American means something. Go ask a Viet immigrant if you don’t believe me.

    Ag80 (93f9d9)

  82. No match letters come with an anti discrimination warning telling you that there are many reasons why there might be a “no match”.

    1. Typo name of your employee (hispanic surname system screws this pooch all day every day)
    2. Typo by SS Admin in spelling of name of employee (See item 1)
    3. Typo in SS# on employers end
    4. Typo in SS# on SS admins end
    5. Fraudulent use of your legit employee’s SS# by other
    6. Mistake by immigration during issuance of SS#
    7. Fraudulent use of legit SS# by your employee

    There are probably more…

    But when did this become my job?

    I (for free mind you) ask for documents fill out I-9 forms, because the US Gov has deflected its border responsibilities to me.
    The feds threaten huge fines/jail time for misfiling, mishandling, miswhatevering their dumbass docs… if it is so important then they should do it…

    I ask for SS#, W-4 etc so I can act as US Government tax collector (for free again)

    Then I get a letter that says from the state of CA that says that a (female name follows) Ferdinanda “Chata” Ortega SS# XXX-XX-XXXX last known address is Yuba City, CA has a withholding order and the state wants a cut… but the SS# I have matches a male named Gustavo Sanchez whose address is Ventura, CA.
    I write back and say: here is the facts on my end, please advise.
    No one ever writes or calls.

    On the Federal end, when you get a no match letter, the back page of the letter specifies that you cannot and must not discriminate against the employee on the basis of the “no match letter”.
    So you fire off a letter to the SS Admin saying the employee on our end says his/her is SS# XXX-XX-XXXX and that there must be some mistake/typo on the SS admin end?(crickets).

    Oh yeah.

    it is CA. Like no one illegal has ever worked at Jerry’s household

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  83. hf,

    God does have plans for all of us, but that doesn’t mean the plans are obvious. Maybe God’s plan for this employee was that she would be fired so she would stop living a lie.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  84. No, Dana, he is Champion of the Downtrodden. So long as the oppressors are impure by his exacting definitions. Nothing new here.

    Eric Blair (2e5551)

  85. So far, is there any evidence that there was a social security letter?

    And if so, is there any evidence that the nanny/maid didn’t just take the letters when they came, so the Whitman family didn’t see them?

    And if she knew in 2003, why would she wait until 2009 to fire her? And why wait until the exact moment the woman asks for help (which seems to be a common fact shared by all stories)?

    it makes more sense to believe Meg didn’t know she was illegal until the woman confessed, as the woman says she did.

    Charles (7bf240)

  86. I think it’s just the lady trusted her enough to tell her about how she wasn’t for reals an American citizen and please Mrs. Whitman can you help me?

    And Meg looked at her coldly for a long moment. Meg’s husband started yelling. But Meg heard not a word of it. The fury she experienced at this insignificant little maid woman’s betrayal subsumed all other thought until like vietnamese coffee it slowly resolved itself and took the form of two words.

    Get. Out.

    Later on when she was calmer she would call the woman and explain what exactly she meant. But right now she needed to hit something and so retired to her “special room” far longer than was her usual, and emerged feeling refreshed and with some fabulous cross-promotional ideas for some of the potential marketing partners she’d be meeting with the next morning.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  87. happyfeet,

    I don’t know if Whitman responded rationally or emotionally to her housekeeper’s confession, but it’s good to know you condemn angry, irrational, or emotional tirades. Keep that in mind the next time you discuss Sarah Palin.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  88. A look into a most unusual mind. And I don’t mean Ms. Whitman. You just seem to know what people think. Vegas awaits you!

    Eric Blair (2e5551)

  89. DRJ I think God sends people into our lives for a reason and I think Meg sorta doesn’t believe that

    Another attack far nastier than anything Meg has shown this maid. Imagine if Palin said that about someone. Happyfeet would say that is evidence of character. And he’d be right.

    ““I don’t really get the scandal here. Can anyone explain it?”

    Yeah, isn’t it pretty normal for upper income people to have undocumented servants like maids, gardeners, etc..?

    Comment by imdw ”

    I don’t get it, imdw. She contacted an employment agency and had documentation the person was legal. How is this like the stereotypical limousine liberal having cheap illegal labor?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  90. DRJ, that will leave a mark! But a lesson for everyone, including me: don’t condemn others for things you do yourself….

    Eric Blair (2e5551)

  91. Things have been very very quiet from Camp Sarah since O’Donnell. I saw where she was organizing a “let’s pick the low-hanging fruit in 2010″ campaign, but she hasn’t made much of a splash with it so far.

    That’s probably on purpose but she hasn’t been this quiet in many moons.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  92. The fury she experienced at this insignificant little maid woman’s betrayal…

    I’m just glad to see an acknowledgment that the maid did indeed betray Whitman. Now that’s progress.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  93. On the Federal end, when you get a no match letter, the back page of the letter specifies that you cannot and must not discriminate against the employee on the basis of the “no match letter”.

    Who in the hell is the SSA to demand I not discriminate against an employee who can’t even get their crap together on their social security number?

    Amazing country we live in sometimes. My guess is the maid stole the letter, anyway. It doesn’t make sense for Meg to behave the way she did, otherwise. Still, nice little wrinkle here.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  94. Quiet at Camp Sarah? Tell that to the 17 million viewers who watched Dancing With the Stars.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  95. She has defended her in every forum, she’s been on feets, knowing the kind of fury one gets when
    beating the establishment at their own game, ignorance does become you, in fact

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  96. “It’s a problem because it is normal, no matter the political persuasion of the whoever you hate because of their beliefs.”

    Seems more like the fact that this is normal is an argument for immigration reform. I can see how that is a problem for people who are against this.

    imdw (14df54)

  97. Sorry, happy, and you know I’ve defended you before, but that fantasy doesn’t wash.

    And it really doesn’t matter.

    I don’t know if Jerry Brown is the solution, but Whitman may be the answer.

    Of course, I don’t live in California.

    Ag80 (93f9d9)

  98. very good point I forgot about DWTS

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  99. Imdw

    > Yeah, isn’t it pretty normal for upper income people to have undocumented servants like maids, gardeners, etc..?

    There is, as of this moment, no evidence that she knew or should have known she was illegal.

    Mind you, allred is alleging that, but has offered no evidence.

    Happy

    > Hey I think Mr. Christie is a wonderful governor of NJ but that’s where he needs to be for the foreseeable future.

    Actually, I agree with that sentiment. He is a great advocate. In about 6 years, I wouldn’t be shocked if he runs for president. And hey, he wouldn’t be our fattest president. That would be Taft, I believe. My God, he was a fat man.

    > And Meg looked at her coldly for a long moment.

    You know your version of what happened doesn’t even line up with what the maid said. The husband was angry, yes, but meg spent her own money on a lawyer to see if she could help. AND SHE COULDN’T. guess what? Jumping the fence is illegal, even if the person is sympathetic and you can’t erase that.

    SteveG

    > Like no one illegal has ever worked at Jerry’s household

    Well, and then there is the question of whether jerry would enforce the immigration laws against anyone.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  100. #94, and that in spite of this.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  101. As I ranted about here, this is a silly, silly, silly controversy.

    aphrael (7c7e13)

  102. Seems more like the fact that this is normal is an argument for immigration reform. I can see how that is a problem for people who are against this.

    Comment by imdw

    Bingo. Not that imdw is correct, but that this will be used as a ‘does it really matter if Whitman’s telling the truth? she’s wrong on immigration anyway!!!!!’ point.

    Some good American was denied this wonderful job because of an illegal immigrant. I don’t see how amnesty for illegals will do anything but make it much worse. Crooks are using this issue to create more democrat votes. It’s time to demand Mexico fix her own problems, and reform our immigration to be similar to other western nations so as to reduce the incentives to break our laws.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  103. imdw

    i am all for reform. i am even willing to call it what it is: amnesty.

    But first, CLOSE THE FUCKING BORDER. Because if you give amnesty without border control we will have an ungodly flood of illegal immigrants.

    And it won’t solve the problem. Because the real problem isn’t the border but the ridiculous overregulation of the economy. from minimum wages, to over-extended unemployment benefits, you drive employers from the legal market for employees, to the illegal market.

    Its not that Americans won’t do these jobs. at almost 10% unemployment, that is a hollow lie. the problem is if you hire an american, it costs too much.

    Meanwhile democrats struggle to maintain a system by which a bunch of brown people work hard for practically nothing, stripped of all rights because they are afraid of being deported or worse. And they dare to call republicans who oppose this racist.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  104. I’m all for immigration reform. Secure the borders. Provide a mechanism for illegals to either go home or swear allegiance to the United States and become productive members of our society.

    Whew, that was hard. Maybe that swear allegiance is the hard part, but I kind of doubt it.

    Ag80 (93f9d9)

  105. “Some good American was denied this wonderful job because of an illegal immigrant. I don’t see how amnesty for illegals will do anything but make it much worse. ”

    If she was american then a “good american” wouldn’t be denied this wonderful job.

    imdw (150cd7)

  106. did y’all hear about McDonald’s I thought that was way more bigger news today

    or should be

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  107. McDonald’s Corp may cut health insurance for its nearly 30,000 hourly workers unless U.S. regulators waive a requirement of new health care legislation championed by President Barack Obama, The Wall Street Journal reported.*

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  108. aphrael,

    It seems to me there is an option 4: Whitman used an employment agency to screen her household employee applicants for things like legal status, which undermines your suggestion that she didn’t care about or willfully ignored the legal issues involved.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  109. become productive members of our society.

    this is the fundamental disjunction between the left and the right on this issue:

    the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are already productive members of our society.

    Meg Whitman’s former housekeeper was. She was also a criminal. The two are not necessarily contradictory.

    aphrael (7c7e13)

  110. DRJ, that’s a fair point.

    I don’t think it undermines my general point that it’s a silly controversy, though; adding that option makes the case even stronger. :)

    aphrael (7c7e13)

  111. Ag80:

    I’m all for immigration reform. Secure the borders. Provide a mechanism for illegals to either go home or swear allegiance to the United States and become productive members of our society.

    I’ll sign on to that, as long as “Secure the borders” is real and comes first.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  112. aphrael,

    Two things stand out to me re your post: First, Whitman hired the maid through an employee agency. I thought it was the agency’s responsibility to verify legality (e-verify) and to make sure the employee provides adequate paperwork and i.d. Do you know that this is not so?

    Also,

    Why did Whitman hire an illegal immigrant in the first place?

    Because that’s the kind of housekeeper the market provided

    You assume that Whitman knew she was legal and yet the maid herself stated that Whitman did not know until the she told her.

    It’s essentially a non-controversy, except that this is a serious election with a lot at stake and stupid stuff like this can sway voters…which certainly is a comment on the voters of California.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  113. Probably so, aphrael #109.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  114. Very interesting McDonald’s link, happyfeet. You should email it to Patterico.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  115. Dana: I don’t know what the legality on that is. Certainly I would assume that an agency was doing that for me, and I would expect them to do it; isn’t that part of the service I’m paying them for?

    That said, I disagree that I assume that Whitman knew she was illegal.

    She hired someone who turned out to be illegal because that person was what the market provided.

    Now, maybe it was a random unlikely circumstance, akin to being struck by lightning.

    But I don’t think anyone believes that.

    The agency gave her an illegal immigrant employee because a substantial percentage of the employee pool are illegal immigrants.

    Why?

    as an economic matter?

    aphrael (7c7e13)

  116. Firing her was the right thing to do. It would have been kind to give her some money as a sort of severance pay before reporting her to INS. The woman held a job for years that should have been an American’s. Don’t tell me there are no Americans who will work for that kind of money as a housekeeper.

    Good-bye, Illegal (e27326)

  117. Dana: the voters who will be swayed by this are (a) conservatives who believe Whitman to have knowingly hired an illegal immigrant, and (b) hispanic voters who were on the fence but who are pissed off by the story.

    I think both groups will actually turn out to be relatively small.

    aphrael (7c7e13)

  118. ok mailed it

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  119. You know what, you condescending racists, I know good people who came to this country for an opportunity to become American citizens.

    They did it legally through extreme hardship. They worked hard and had to overcome a lot of obstacles for their citizenship.

    Everyone who comes to this nation comes for a simple reason: To improve their life.

    I have no problem with that. All that I ask is that they understand that by coming here, they have an obligation to renounce their prior allegiances and swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

    Ag80 (93f9d9)

  120. I think I’m mostly on Team 80 as far as the immigrationings go

    I just can’t get too worked up about it usually. I get frustrated sometimes when it eclipses the more serious existential problems our little country faces… but the whole issue is a lot more backburnered this close to the election than I thought it would be 6-9 months ago.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  121. If she was american then a “good american” wouldn’t be denied this wonderful job.

    Comment by imdw

    LOL.

    She was a fraud. So she wasn’t good. Thanks for playing, but I’d never trust her with money or kids or anything like that. She will lie for money, pure and simple. Good people do not do that.

    She should go home and try to fix Mexico. Until Mexicans decide to have their own Tea Party, and rid their country of their own set of idiot progressive monsters, this problem will never go away.

    Letting a few million Mexicans become Americans would make the problem worse. It’s the wrong thing to do, morally, because it’s a relief valve helping corruption persist instead of forcing the masses to improve their country. We already tried your amnesty idea in 1986. It made things worse.

    I realize, to a democrat shill, that sounds great. Importing a few million new democrats every 15 years sounds lovely.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  122. Is she now going to face criminal charges, at the very least for being in the country illegally, and perhaps also for fraud or something similar if Whitman can prove that the housekeeper represented herself as legal?

    Allred may not have done her client any good, quite the opposite in fact, she may have dropped her client in some really hot water.

    She will get to represent her in the criminal case.

    Michael Ejercito (249c90)

  123. happyfeet,

    I wanted to make certain points in this discussion but I didn’t intend to do it in a hurtful way. I’m sorry if my comments were hurtful.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  124. “Yeah, isn’t it pretty normal for upper income people to have undocumented servants like maids, gardeners, etc..?”

    imdw – Do you mean like Zoe Baird?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  125. not at all DRJ your graciousness never doesn’t prevail I don’t think

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  126. I was snippy about Sarah Palin.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  127. In regards to Whitman’s hiring of an illegal alien, I am sure that California voters will vote according to their will.

    I would, of course, be interested in Jerry Brown’s hiring practices, but I doubt that will happen.

    So, it goes.

    Ag80 (93f9d9)

  128. DRJ I’ve earned quite a bit more than snippy I should think. I was on kind of a bender last week.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  129. In regards to Whitman’s hiring of an illegal alien, I am sure that California voters will vote according to their will.

    They might vote with regard to the lie that Meg knew she was hiring an illegal alien, or abused said alien, if certain elements get away with repeating the lie enough to make it seem true.

    In reality, she obviously meant to hire a legal worker. And she treated that worker a lot better than most employers threat their employees.

    I hope Californians know the facts when they decide to vote. I bet most of them decide there are much more important issues.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  130. Who is Gloria representing in all this kerfuffle? If she is representing the illegal immigrant maid, how does the California Bar Association feel about intentionally exposing your client to enhanced risks of deportation, federal perjury charges, and a whole slew of other assorted offenses? If Gloria is not representing the maid, then who is she representing and how did the story come to her in the first place anyhow?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  131. I think both groups will actually turn out to be relatively small.

    It depends perhaps on how much spin and press this gets – Allred isn’t a novice. However, I hope you’re right. I would like to think Cali voters are more savvy and discerning but considering the state we find ourselves in, well…

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  132. McDonald’s Corp may cut health insurance for its nearly 30,000 hourly workers unless U.S. regulators waive a requirement of new health care legislation championed by President Barack Obama, The Wall Street Journal reported.*

    I would be willing to bet the vast majority of these employees voted Obama and to them I say “el que no queire caldo, dos tazas

    Schadenfreude forever.

    Heavensent (4f78d0)

  133. “DRJ I’ve earned quite a bit more than snippy I should think. I was on kind of a bender last week.”

    Mr. Feets – Back to your journal.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  134. I always ask ALL races of employees who get a “no match letter” to verify their SS# and other info.
    The ones who are using fake documents probably lie in order to keep their job.
    I’ve had people be honest with me about it and I have had to let them go. It still took time to unravel… last paycheck is the easy part, make sure everything was clear, legal, correct and clean takes time.
    Everyone says ” “oh that person would be gone” but reality steps in. Terminating a recognized minority in CA means that you take the time to get it right… what if the hispanic who got “no matched” later comes out and says he/she felt intimidated and unfairly accused?
    The State of Ca will push and finance this case as State of CA vs. you
    Even if employee he/she is/was indeed illegal, simply defending this type of charge can cost $$ and be a huge time suck.

    Don’t get me started on unemployment benefits judgements for people who filed after resigning due to no match letters.
    You would think that terminating an employee that got hit on a no match letter, who actually admitted that the SS# provided was not their own… that would get the employer off the hook for unemployment, right?
    Oh no.
    Anchor baby still qualifies for benefits.

    Here is another ? :
    Why should a private employer be held to a standard that exceeds the standard to receive and/or suspend Section 8 benefits from the government?

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  135. Meg, Meg, Meg, where do I start, you have reportedly spent $119 million of your own money to get elected Governor but you personally went out, interviewed and hire yourself a 15 hour a week maid/ housekeeper instead of hiring a service like Maid Brigade, Merry Maids, ServiceMaster Clean, talk about being a cheap bastard. But it does not stop there, after she worked for you for nine years you would not help her in getting legalized? Wow, what a WITCH, of course I meant it with a “B”.

    But your comments on holding employers accountable for hiring undocumented workers real takes the cake, I assume you exempt yourself and your husband, or will you be turning yourself in.

    Meg on holding employers accountable:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4fWLHiw8zA

    Meg you think you can buy the election, but what puzzles many is if you real cared and loved California then why not do your civic duty and vote, seems more rhetoric than anything else. In good times we might give you a try but not in our disaster mode that we find ourselves in after that so-called outsider Independent Republican, named Arnold Schwarzenegger (sold to us by radio personalities John and Ken), ruined our state, yah we will trust another one of you liars, think not. You can’t buy everything! What a waste of money!

    Montana (d10380)

  136. Who is Gloria representing…

    Super-Glo is representing her most important client:

    Super-Glo!

    It is what she always does.

    AD-RtR/OS! (4c7111)

  137. You know what, you condescending racists,

    at whom was that directed, AG80?

    aphrael (9802d6)

  138. SteveG

    When it comes to fulfilling your obligations to Government, you must be perfect in any form they decide.

    When it come to receiving benefits from the Government, you can slap any ol’ crap together.

    Why?

    Increases the demand for government workers.

    Heavensent (4f78d0)

  139. AD: I find it hard to imagine that this press conference helped her client’s legal position.

    Seems like it would have been better to file the complaint, then try to negotiate a settlement in quiet, with the glare of publicity as a threat hanging over the negotiations.

    aphrael (9802d6)

  140. dear Mr. journal hey that Mr. daley is kind of a buttface sometimes isn’t he? He sure likes to give me the business. Also today I had panda for lunch cause I couldn;t think of anything else to do really and guess what? I forgot I had a coupon that this lady what works with panda emailed me that was only good for today! Typical me huh Mr. Journal?

    also I heard a thunder, but it didn’t rain at least not yet

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  141. On #134 what I meant was that because anchor babies still qualify their parents for benefits, that the powers that be are reluctant… if not downright resistant… to give up payments into the the system over technicalities like a simple “no match letter”

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  142. SteveG,

    I appreciate your comments about the “no match” letters. I don’t have any experience with that and hearing from someone who does is very helpful.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  143. Montana,

    You’re absolutely insane. You’re complaining that Meg was too cheap in how she cleaned her house? She had a freaking maid. Whom she overpaid, IMO. I don’t think she’s wasting her money by trying to save California from Jerry Brown’s proven destructive policies. She did all she asks companies to do. Not knowingly employ illegal aliens.

    —-

    I thought AG80 was kidding about the racism. For sure, I could care less that this illegal is Caucasian of Hispanic ethnicity or whatever the hell it’s called.

    It’s got nothing to do with race to me. Obviously, Meg didn’t mind paying a great wage to a Mexican, and making her a part of her kids’ life such that terminating Nicki was a worry in this regard.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  144. ____________________________________

    so-called outsider Independent Republican, named Arnold Schwarzenegger

    A politician pushed to the left (or from semi-squishy to super squishy) by all the nonsensical “we’re so liberal, so beautiful, so compassionate” voters of California, who a few years ago turned down everyone of his reform measures on the ballot.

    If California is becoming a joke and flop, in its attempt to outdo the socio-political brillance of Greece, Mexico and Spain (with a bit of Venezuela thrown in for good measure), its electorate needs to look in the mirror and proclaim “mea culpa!”

    Mark (411533)

  145. Montana,
    You’re absolutely insane.

    Actually, if he’s living on the East Coast, Midwest or South, he may be hoping that California becomes uber-leftwing and sort of a northern branch of Mexico. The reason? Not necessarily because he’s liberal or not. Instead, it may have a lot to due with his wanting to see the “Golden State” go down the drain even faster and therefore become easier pickings from competing states (and cities) where common sense still prevails.

    Mark (411533)

  146. DRJ is too nice. Absolutely no reason to apologize to happyfeet on this one.

    30.are we sure there’s any kind of lawsuit involved at all? I would bet the lawyer is just to make sure the maid stays out of slander/libel territory or whatever
    Comment by happyfeet — 9/29/2010 @ 6:38 pm
    — When has Gloria Allred EVER taken a case where she wasn’t demanding something, with the threat of a lawsuit if her demands were not met?

    42.I’m super duper nice to women I love them to pieces and we work great together even it’s just Team R has been producing a bum crop lately.
    Comment by happyfeet — 9/29/2010 @ 6:51 pm
    — I have 2 challenges for you, Mr. happyfeet: 1) Please list for us the women members of “Team R”, past or present, that you DO approve of; and, 2) Please share some of your ‘greatest hits’ with your women friends/co-workers, such as your #16 from this thread (“meanwhile Meg is a nasty pseudo Team R McCain trollop what thinks she can buy a statehouse. It’s kinda cool to watch her get slapped up her head by the maid like she was a common ho”), and report back to us their honest reactions to the language that you use.

    Icy Texan (9b7145)

  147. ‘Please list for us the women members of “Team R”, past or present, that you DO approve of’

    I always liked Jeanette Rankin, first woman to ever serve in the Congress of the United States, and the wackiest peacenik of all time.

    She was so peace-crazy she refused to vote to declare war on Japan after the Japanese let us have it in December 1941.

    Now, that’s what I call a left wing loon of the first water.

    Gotta admire anyone who is that wacko, and especially if the wacko isn’t even a Democrat!

    Dave Surls (b44240)

  148. Thanks for chiming in, Dave.

    Icy Texan (9b7145)

  149. Heh… this has gotta be embarrassing for Allred.

    The San Francisco Chronicle (not exactly a bastion of conservatism) calls this “Campaign Stunt: A Bunch Of Garbage.”

    When even the newspaper in Nancy Pelosi’s district turns against a story attacking a Republican, you know it’s gotta be bad.

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  150. Good questions, Icy Texas. I eagerly await his answer.

    PatAZ (9d1bb3)

  151. Btw, Jim Treacher reminds us that Allred has done this before, against Ahnold, just before his election.

    Remember that woman who claimed that Ahnold did all kinds of sexual harrassment and defamation? http://articles.cnn.com/2003-12-08/politics/schwarzenegger.suit_1_harassment-claims-sexual-harassment-rhonda-miller?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

    Well, so i wondered, what happened to that whole thing? It turns out that Allred’s claims were so feeble as to have been dismissed. http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/11/local/me-miller11

    So allred has a history of these kinds of hit and run things.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  152. Ian Cormic, that Baldwin article has to be one of the most braindead shill jobs I’ve ever read.

    I love how Alec makes the point that actors are not well equipped to understand government, when talking about a Republican governor. And it’s so evil that Issa and Whitman make and spend fortunes.

    He’s right that California is extremely difficult to run, but Arnold’s reform measures were all rejected by the state. We don’t know that his leadership would have failed, because the state of California wasn’t willing to allow him to fix the state’s problems. Can Meg do better? I don’t see how, but we know that Alec’s fawning for Jerry Brown ignores his actual job performance because his performance was terrible.

    It would be nice if California decided to start from scratch with a government system modeled after a more successful government.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  153. ConservativeWanderer: that article is an op-ed piece by Debra Saunders, a conservative columnist. It’s no more fair to impute her views to the Chronicle’s editorial board than it is to impute Ross Douthat’s views to the New York Times’ editorial board.

    (And the fact that Saunders is significantly more conservative than the paper as a whole is something regular readers of the paper would understand immediately).

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  154. Dustin: my single biggest objection to Meg Whitman is that she is basically running on Arnold’s platform, without presenting any even mildly convincing case about why she would succeed where he failed.

    The last seven years haven’t worked. What possible reason do we have to think that four more years of the same would work?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  155. the problem cali has is its entrenched liberal approach to everything. making jerry brown the governor won’t solve the problem.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  156. Comment by aphrael — 9/29/2010 @ 9:34 pm

    That sort of confirms my #136, doesn’t it?

    AD-RtR/OS! (5da4fc)

  157. The last seven years haven’t worked. What possible reason do we have to think that four more years of the same would work?

    Believe me, if I had a good answer, I’d give it to you.

    This is yet another sad election where there are reasons to vote against … not many reasons to vote for. I don’t blame Meg for this. California rejected Arnold’s reforms… they’d reject Meg’s too.

    However, I do believe that Jerry Brown would make things worse, faster. Much as we can’t credit Bush for fixing our unsustainable deficit and entitlement culture, but the alternative party has ramped up the problem.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  158. Super-Glo is holding another of her interminable pressers (this one will be bi-lingual) so she can dig her hole even deeper.

    AD-RtR/OS! (5da4fc)

  159. First, i have a post on this that is interesting. i catch the LA times calling this worker “undocumented.” as you all know, the correct term is “fruadulently documented.”

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/09/when-political-correctness-distorts.html

    Dustin

    i think that Bush metaphor works well. the dems convinced america in 2008 that there was nothing worse than republican rule. but by 2010 they have convinced us that they actually are much, much worse than republicans. they taught conservatives that elections matter.

    I don’t know much about Whitman honestly. But I know enough about brown to say they would be crazy to make him governor.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  160. Aaron, that was a great blog post. The way our doublespeak has screwed up how we communicate about politically sensitive issues can be pretty amusing sometimes.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  161. California rejected Arnold’s reforms… they’d reject Meg’s too.

    The teachers union mortgaged their headquarters building to spend $57 million against one of Arnold’s propositions. He made a crucial mistake in holding a special election where turnout was small. Hopefully she can learn from those mistakes, if she gets a chance. If Brown wins, the state is doomed.

    Mike K (568408)

  162. Notice how many of the Democrats attacks this election cycle depend upon complete fabrications by Democrats?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  163. Mr. Feets – As the greasy assed dirty socialists drive our little country and the little state you live in further into the ditch, I submit we have larger issues with which to concern ourselves with than the criminal activities of Ms. Whitman’s illegal alien, perjuring, mail fraud committing, lying, former maid, but that’s just me. Your mileage obviously varies.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  164. Dustin

    thanks for the compliment. i will admit as i was writing it i was a little bit singling out the LA Times. I mean the very last link is a google search of “Whitman Undocumented.” There were alot of hits.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  165. btw, now allred has allegedly produced a copy of the letter with the husband’s writing allegedly on it.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20018203-503544.html

    We’ll see what Whitman says to that, although I will say one thing. This doesn’t prove Meg Whitman knew, only her husband, assuming it bears out.

    And we all know husbands never keep things from their wives, right?

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  166. Californians, if they seriously wish to straighten out their state, must reform their legislature.

    Until they do, their state will continue on its slide to changing its name from the Bear Flag Republic to the Banana Republic.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  167. nonono I agree Mr. daley I think Meg and her maid problems are totally a yesterday thing and today we are onto new things – except they have to rehash yesterday’s stuff at the beginning – but then Meg makes a very bold pledge on taxes

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  168. If Brown wins, the state is doomed.

    True enough but I think we either elect Thelma or we elect Louise but either way this car is heading straight over the cliff

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  169. True enough but I think we either elect Thelma or we elect Louise but either way this car is heading straight over the cliff

    Hard to argue that you’re wrong, strictly speaking. I don’t know anyone who is optimistic about Cali, with either candidate. Similarly, If Bush and Tom Delay ran the USA for the next hundred years, we would probably have at least $104,000,000,000 deficits, and eventually we’d run over the cliff.

    And yet that’s much preferable to an alternative that runs us over the cliff 4 times faster.

    Either way, Cali and the USA are run in an irresponsible manner. But there are major differences. in particular, with California, part of the problem is managing the reform process via direct democracy, rather than the governor’s direct ability to fix problems.

    One things I like about Meg is that she’s a terrible politician. She makes completely unequivocal statements of policy with very little polish or vagueness or political craftsmanship. She’s lucky to have such a terrible opponent. California, however, is not lucky, because there’s a major change they are going to be taking that nosedive off the cliff years earlier than anticipated.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  170. major chance, not change.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  171. Btw, i updated my blog to reflect the allred evidence. and she tells a big whopper, saying her client has no need to take a lie detector test.

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/09/when-political-correctness-distorts.html

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  172. and a further update at my blog, you can see a copy of the alleged letter.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  173. PatAZ, you might be listening to the sounds of chirping crickets for awhile.

    Icy Texan (cc5e5e)

  174. BradinSA, that’s such a great interview.

    Sadly, many will use this ‘the law forced Meg’s hand’ to argue that Meg’s wrong to support the laws themselves.

    Still, Gloria looks sleazier than ever, trying to sabotage an election and refusing to admit the law required this ‘abuse’. Meg treated that maid better than any of my employers would have treated me in that situation.

    It sounds incompetent to represent a fired illegal immigrant while not caring or understanding if that firing was required by law. It’s not a breach (thus not a tort) to refuse to do something illegal. Pretty basic stuff here, but answered easily because Gloria isn’t trying to help her client. She isn’t representing illegals who are actually abused by employers. She’s crying wolf, and probably hurting their cause.

    I sure hope this backfires.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  175. her client has no need to take a lie detector test.

    AFAIK, taking lie detector tests isn’t standard procedure for lawsuits in California.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  176. I think the lie detector test was already taken. She swore under penalty of perjury that she had a certain SSN and was eligible to work in the USA.

    Liar Detected.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  177. Dustin: that’s funny, but I think you missed the context:

    Whitman said this morning that she would be willing to take a polygraph test to demonstrate she did not know Diaz Santillan was in the country illegally. Asked if Diaz Santillan would do so, Allred said she does not need to.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  178. Oh, I’m just snarking. Polygraphs are lame stunts, IMO.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  179. The maid was earning $23.00 per hour with Meg. That’s comparable to what an educated and legal person would get. If the maid knew she was illegal and not entitled to be here, the maid should have told Meg she was illegal and asked for a raise. Gloria Allred is a hoax. She’s a democrat and democrats favor illegals working here illegally. She’s just throwing the maid to the wolves in an effort to help Jerry “Jesuit” Brown.

    Also note that Jerry Brown, if he had ANY integrity at all would not be running to serve a third term as governor. It’s true there is a loop-hole; he served as governor before the law changed. But what does the law say: THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO NOT WANT GOVERNORS TO SERVE MORE THAN TWO TERMS. Brown has already served two. And, in the face of, and against a public mandate, opposition to THIRD terms, Brown is ignoring the spirit of the law passed by the California voters. This is the type of CRAP Democrats dish out. Just say no to “Jesuit” Jerry Brown.

    Besides, although not a “professional” politician, Meg Whitman has the kind of experience California needs.

    AdrianS (287784)

  180. People seem to be carrying on here just as if A. Worthing did not post no. 166.

    The game has changed. This might have been a minor issue but Whitman is looking like something of a liar after the latest SS documentation, which was apparently perused by her husband in 2003. Allred, whatever one may think of her, executed a classic rope-a-dope, doing her press conference shortly after Whitman’s.

    “Detached and spoiled fat cat” is not playing well this election cycle, and this housekeeper situation goes right to the heart of Whitman’s vulnerability(in the context of her trying to buy the election with all her millions).

    Nor do I think this will endear Whitman to Latinos, where she had been doing quite well against Brown before now.

    Myron (9b2abe)

  181. Aphrael:

    I may be wrong, not working in the newspaper business, but my understanding is that newspapers have the option to not run a column if they don’t want to for some reason. If memory serves, there have been momentary kerfuffles over Paper X refusing to run Column Y, and getting some flack for it.

    Therefore, while Saunders’ opinion may not necessarily be the opinion of the entire Chron editorial staff, they did, apparently, think it was worth running, for whatever reason.

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  182. People seem to be carrying on here just as if A. Worthing did not post no. 166.

    Absent proof that the handwriting really is the husband’s (and I’ve not seen such proof yet), all that piece of paper represents is another unproven allegation, not a smoking gun.

    If proven authentic (and, I say again, such proof has not yet been shown), the letter raises other questions, including but not limited to: What is Allred doing with a piece of Whitman’s mail? How did she obtain it? How long has she had it, and is she therefore an accessory after the fact by virtue of withholding evidence of a crime for more than a reasonable time?

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  183. CW: The husband is pursuing plausible deniability. He’s doing what Whitman should have done from the start — give himself room to wiggle. But I expect a lot of voters will not buy it — enough voters in fact, in a close year to swing the race. I think Latinos in particular, an important bloc, will think it’s bs. They’ve seen this story before:

    “Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman’s husband said in a prepared statement this afternoon that he does not recall receiving a letter from the Social Security Administration about a discrepancy between his then-housekeeper’s name and Social Security number, but he said it is possible he did receive it and referred it to the housekeeper to follow up.

    “In a conference call with reporters, Whitman adviser Tom Hiltachk said the so-called “no-match” letter would not have given Whitman or her husband, Dr. Griffith Harsh, reason to believe their housekeeper, Nicky Diaz Santillan, was in the country illegally.

    “Whitman adviser Rob Stutzman said it is likely, if the letter is authentic, that Harsh referred it to Diaz Santillan so that she would complete the paperwork necessary to receive Social Security benefits.

    Read more: http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2010/09/whitman-camp-says-letter-if-au.html#ixzz113Xfphmc

    Myron (9b2abe)

  184. The way I see it we have a choice between the Thomas Jefferson wing of the illegal alien issue, the girl who hates the institution but just can’t quite part with her slaves Mexicans,
    and the John {happyfeet} Calhoun wing, who believe that open borders are a positive good, for both the master crooked employer and his happily singing in the fields slave Mexican.

    papertiger (b91fb3)

  185. Again, Myron, there is no proof that the handwriting is the husband’s. I, personally, have never seen his handwriting before. Have you? Can you attest under oath that the handwriting is the same?

    Remember, innocent until proven guilty. Or doesn’t that apply to Republican candidates in California, or their spouses?

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  186. Arizona is being boycotted by Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, and sued by the US government to stop doing what the Democratic Party insists Meg Whitman should have done.

    Isn’t that about the size of it?

    papertiger (b91fb3)

  187. CW: I understand why you don’t see it the way others might, and your viewpoint is not invalid.

    But you’re starting from the position of giving Whitman the maximum benefit of the doubt. However, that’s not the position she’s starting from with most of the voters in a very blue state. This is why I think the issue will be trouble for her. You even allude to her delicate position in your last sentence in 187.

    Myron (9b2abe)

  188. No, Myron, I am approaching it from the point of view that you, sir, suggested when you said no one was taking into account what was specified in comment 166.

    Said comment is about the husband’s alleged note on the alleged letter. I am addressing my comments at this time specifically to that point.

    And yet, now it seems you’re trying to spin things away from that point, so I will ask you, point-blank… do you want to discuss what was brought up in comment 166, or not?

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  189. What about Meg? Doesn’t she have a case against the referral agency that sent her a certified 100% kosher legal Mexican, that turned out to be a fraud??

    papertiger (b91fb3)

  190. Doesn’t she have a case against the referral agency that sent her a certified 100% kosher legal Mexican, that turned out to be a fraud??

    I’m not an employment or immigration lawyer (or any other kind of lawyer, for that matter), but it seems to me that if the applicant herself told the agency she was legal, that the fraud would be on the applicant, not the agency.

    After all, agencies aren’t staffed by Immigration Agents, I don’t think they’re legally required to do a full background check on every applicant… and it’d be really hard to turn a profit in that business if they were!

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  191. Also about that notice from the social security office, informing employers that they hired an illegal alien, but then demanding that said illegal not be fired, where are the employers willing to challenge this assinine law?

    papertiger (b91fb3)

  192. Myopic, that rock you crawled out from under is starting to get lonely.

    Icy Texan (cc5e5e)

  193. For regular recurring columnists, not running a column is an exceptional act.

    The entire point to the columnist byline is that the opinions in the column are those of the columnist, not those of the paper.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  194. It’s not worth arguing about, Aphrael. This story has more holes than the swiss cheese display at the corner grocery store anyway.

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  195. Assuming the handwriting is the husband’s, he wrote “Nicky will you look into this?” It is obvious he had no suspicion that she was an illegal and didn’t know what the letter implied.

    Typical sleazeball hit by Allred although she might have gone off too early and gave them time to figure out what happened. The nanny certainly hung onto the letter and probably volunteered to pick up the mail after that, assuming the handwriting is his.

    Mike K (568408)

  196. ConservativeWanderer: aye, I think the story is absurd (and this is coming from someone who had no intention of voting for Whitman). I just thought the imputation was unfair.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  197. Amusing that Democratic shills think this is an issue when their President appointed, and the Democratic controlled Senate confirmed, a Treasury secretary who cheated on his taxes.

    Isn’t that how the “Squirrel!” game is played?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  198. Maybe if I use bold type he will actually respond:
    42.I’m super duper nice to women I love them to pieces and we work great together even it’s just Team R has been producing a bum crop lately.
    Comment by happyfeet — 9/29/2010 @ 6:51 pm
    -– I have 2 challenges for you, Mr. happyfeet: 1) Please list for us the women members of “Team R”, past or present, that you DO approve of; and, 2) Please share some of your ‘greatest hits’ with your women friends/co-workers, such as your #16 from this thread (“meanwhile Meg is a nasty pseudo Team R McCain trollop what thinks she can buy a statehouse. It’s kinda cool to watch her get slapped up her head by the maid like she was a common ho”), and report back to us their honest reactions to the language that you use.

    Icy Texan (cc5e5e)

  199. I already said the megster’s maid issues are a yesterday thing now people are just milking it. It’s time to move on I think.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  200. “Allred, whatever one may think of her, executed a classic rope-a-dope, doing her press conference shortly after Whitman’s.”

    Myron – Allred has proven time and time again to be a partisan sleazeball, so U do not think much of her. Nor do I think much of your record of accuracy here, but that is beside the point. Welcome back.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  201. Okay, happyfeet. I’m not trying to start a brouhaha here. Just asking you to back up your previous statements. That’s fine, though; I’ll limit my comments to pointing out the next time when you inevitably slam a Team R female in a misogynist manner.

    Icy Texan (cc5e5e)

  202. happyfeet, do you consider yourself a Republican? Honest question. I am not insinuating you’re a concern troll or a lefty or a democrat.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  203. aphrael #155 (sorry for the delay)

    “The last seven years haven’t worked. What possible reason do we have to think that four more years of the same would work?”

    Actually, that refers more accurately to the Legislature much more than to the Governor …

    Or are you intentionally advocating that California should elect a GOP Senate and GOP Assembly to fix our problems ? It does sound like a more sensible idea than re-electing the same bunch from the same party that have given us the current California economic state …

    Alasdair (ecd506)

  204. Someone should make a ringtone out of that poor, put upon illegal immigrant’s plaintive, “you doan know me… and I doan know you”…

    ColonelHaiku (1546ed)

  205. From the letter in question:

    This letter does not imply that you or your employee intentionally provided incorrect information about the employee’s name or SSN. It is not a basis, in and of itself, for you to take any adverse action against the employee, such as laying off, suspending, firing, or discriminating against the individual. Any employer that uses the information in this letter to justify taking adverse action against an employee may violate state or federal law and be subject to legal consequences. Moreover, this letter makes no statement about your employee’s immigration status.

    Michael Ejercito (249c90)

  206. suggested when you said no one was taking into account what was specified in comment 166.

    CW: Up until my post, no one was addressing comment 166. They just pretended it wasn’t there. And I think my views have been well laid out on that score. It’s clear I don’t believe Whitman has credibility.

    She appears next to her hubby at a press conference, which suggests they are pretty tight (as a husband and wife should be) and now we’re to believe that her husband didn’t let her know that a key member of the household might have a fake social security number? The housekeeper would have been with them three years by then.

    Myron (9b2abe)

  207. Amusing that Democratic shills think this is an issue when their President appointed, and the Democratic controlled Senate confirmed, a Treasury secretary who cheated on his taxes.

    SPQR: Unusually poor attempt at re-direction. What on earth does this have to do with the California race?

    Myron (9b2abe)

  208. Allred has proven time and time again to be a partisan sleazeball,

    Daley: And? That doesn’t mean the maid’s not telling the truth. Karl Rove is a partisan sleazeball, but I’ve known him to be right on occasion.

    Myron (9b2abe)

  209. Why is it that lefties can never answer a simple yes or no question?

    I’ll try it again.

    Myron, do you want to discuss the alleged handwritten note, or not?

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  210. Audio of the interview with Allred…

    http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article.asp?id=1970739&spid=32364

    ColonelHaiku (1546ed)

  211. Wanderer – you are better off beating your head against a brick wall.

    JD (9a2e5c)

  212. Michael Ejercito, how . . . DARE you blow holes through Myron’s fully researched, vetted, and fact-checked assertion!?!

    Icy Texan (cc5e5e)

  213. I have a hard head, JD, it’s the wall that has to worry. :p

    ConservativeWanderer (41d634)

  214. Meh on the Levin interview. Hugh Hewitt had a much better interview, without the baggage of knowing that if Levin did have any kind of contrary to narrative info, he’s hide it. Anger from his is just dumb ideological loyalty. Condemnation from Hewitt is based on reality, instead.

    I don’t mean to be unfair to Levin. He’s shown he has no credibility on smears like his or Allreds. They are peas in a pod, on different sides of a dumb war.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  215. I don’t mean to bust Haiku’s chops. He’s one of my favorite commenters. I just think Levin’s basically the same as Allred: no principles.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  216. Myron, you did not quote my entire comment. Which is pretty typical of your trolling.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  217. Thanks, Dustin. I like Hewitt, as well, and I’ll read it.

    Despite the recent kerfuffle about Levin around here, I enjoy his show and his writing. I enjoy listening to him on my drive home from the office, as the laughs help me to unwind. I find him entertaining.

    ColonelHaiku (1546ed)

  218. That’s cool, Haiku. It’s not my place to tell people who to enjoy.

    I’ve been finding Beck on the radio to be extremely good for unwinding. Even though I’ve been down on him sometimes.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  219. C.W.: Please, “rightie.” You’ve got it all figured out. I’m not wasting my time trying to disabuse you of your made-up mind. I think the letter is valid and that’s why hubby left himself wiggle room in his lawyer-prepared statement. I’ve already said that.

    I’m simply telling you the political reality: Whitman got dusted by Allred on this one, she looks like a liar, her Latino support will collapse, and it’s going to hurt like hell in the polls for her.

    And Texan, C.W. didn’t blow holes through anything. You guys should read sites other than Patterico sometime. You start breathing these fumes too long, with little to no contrary opinion, and you begin to become legends in your own minds. :)

    Myron (9b2abe)

  220. Myron knows things people. Leftist journolist types always fall back on claims of superior knowledge and open-minded thinking. It is not the least bit surprising that Myron fell for Allred’s stunt.

    JD (b14a2f)

  221. Whitman got dusted by Allred on this one, she looks like a liar

    LOL.

    No doubt, some people will be fooled. Allred has done harm to the Whitman campaign. We’ll see if that lasts, or even backfires. Every major dishonest smear (and any reasonable person agrees this is a dishonest smear) has backfired in recent years.

    It’s just too hard to keep a lie going. For every person who falls for it, two people realize they need to stand up to it.

    You tell us we should read sites other than this one. I’ve been doing that, but I’d love to see a link to your reasonable, non-echo chamber, that thinks Whitman looks dishonest next to Allred.

    Did you read the link I posted above to Hewitt’s interview? Allred looks atrocious.

    Anyway, please read my link, and also please share with me the links you’re referring to.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  222. Aphrael

    > taking lie detector tests isn’t standard procedure for lawsuits in California.

    At this point, we have a person who has committed fraud for financial gain, is telling a dubious story when she has much to gain financially. You need SOMETHING to bolster her credibility.

    Myron

    > but Whitman is looking like something of a liar after the latest SS documentation

    Bullshit. Let me assure you that when you are married neither party becomes able to read the other’s mind. I mean if my wife could read my mind she would never stop slapping me. 😉

    And the ONLY evidence that it is the husband’s handwriting is the word of a proven fraud.

    Mind you, they should ask him that question, but still. Right now it is not proof, and Allred and her client get no benefit of the doubt from me.

    And I will note something else. The SS letter itself says this is not proof that she is an illegal alien and it warns them that if they take adverse action, that they could be in violation of federal anti-discrimination laws.

    Mike at 197 great point. If he suspected she was illegal, then she would be exactly the wrong person to look into it.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  223. Whitman’s lengthy-if-not-tedious-presser (re-aired on C-SPAN) is a visual analogy for California high school science students who’ve ever wondered what the ponderous thrashings of a desperate mammoth may have looked like as it slowly started to sink into one of those tarpits along LaBrea.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  224. #221@Dustin “I’m simply telling you the political reality: Whitman got dusted by Allred on this one, she looks like a liar, her Latino support will collapse, and it’s going to hurt like hell in the polls for her.” <- Precisely. And how she is perceived in handling this 'crisis' is more important than the incident itself. Add this to not voting for decades, etc.,… probably caps any rise in poll numbers now. See if she cuts herself another check by mid-month to buy some numbers.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  225. #225 ^correction- response for Myron.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  226. IMP – are you ever not an idiot?

    JD (f89659)

  227. And how she is perceived in handling this ‘crisis’ is more important than the incident itself.

    I think she’s handled it really well. I know, she’a Republican and you have to pretend she’s horrible, but she’s been quite classy towards this fraud. She’s laid out her case crisply. She’s let Allred make an ass of herself.

    but maybe she’s going to lose this election. I wouldn’t bet my house either way. I don’t get the gloating. Anyone who understands this issue understands that Meg tried to hire a legal immigrant and treated her well. It’s a smear.

    Maybe that’s OK to some people. It really sucks for California if this is effective politics there. Guess what: you’ll see more of it. This crap doesn’t fly in Texas. We don’t elect your ass if you’re too rude to shake someone’s hand, let alone pull smear jobs.

    And that’s a core reason why we got the government we deserve, and so did Cali.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  228. Dustin and all, more updates at my blog, including the full statement from the husband.

    And this is my commentary on the Hewitt interview:

    Via Dustin commenting at Patterico, we get Hugh Hewitt making Allred look very, very bad. I will quibble with Hewitt on one point. Very often I do start with the facts and figure out if I “smell” an injustice, and then research how I can translate that sense of moral outrage into a legal cause of action. But that is a quibble, because regardless, you have to eventually know what the law is. And if you are going to say this person acted illegally, you have to know enough about the law to know whether it was actually illegal.

    I would add that if she files a case she better know the law by then, and if she doesn’t seem to, then if I was opposing counsel, I would use the Hewitt interview as exhibit A in seeking sanctions for filing a frivolous case.

    I note it is also more than a little outrageous that allred is saying they should have treated her as an illegal immigrant back then, given that the letter says they shouldn’t and threatens them with lawsuit, more or less, if they take adverse action based on it alone.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  229. I’m simply telling you the political reality: Whitman got dusted by Allred on this one, she looks like a liar, her Latino support will collapse, and it’s going to hurt like hell in the polls for her.

    Not, it is Allred and that maid who are liars.

    This letter does not imply that you or your employee intentionally provided incorrect information about the employee’s name or SSN. It is not a basis, in and of itself, for you to take any adverse action against the employee, such as laying off, suspending, firing, or discriminating against the individual. Any employer that uses the information in this letter to justify taking adverse action against an employee may violate state or federal law and be subject to legal consequences. Moreover, this letter makes no statement about your employee’s immigration status.

    Michael Ejercito (249c90)

  230. Whitman’s lengthy-if-not-tedious-presser (re-aired on C-SPAN) is a visual analogy for California high school science students who’ve ever wondered what the ponderous thrashings of a desperate mammoth may have looked like as it slowly started to sink into one of those tarpits along LaBrea.

    How?

    The letter explicitly stated:

    This letter does not imply that you or your employee intentionally provided incorrect information about the employee’s name or SSN. It is not a basis, in and of itself, for you to take any adverse action against the employee, such as laying off, suspending, firing, or discriminating against the individual. Any employer that uses the information in this letter to justify taking adverse action against an employee may violate state or federal law and be subject to legal consequences. Moreover, this letter makes no statement about your employee’s immigration status.

    Michael Ejercito (249c90)

  231. Predictably, Disco Stu proclaims that Allred wiped the floor with Whitman, but provides no supporting material for his opinion whatsoever. IOW, an ad hom.

    Icy Texan (c92f58)

  232. Dustin,
    Thank you for linking to the Hewitt interview. I love this line:

    HH: Look, Gloria, this isn’t the Sacramento Bee. You can’t filibuster me. Erwin just said she had to fire the housekeeper. Is Erwin wrong?

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc)

  233. Hewitt is amazingly gifted. He has the quick command of the facts and wit, and that little extra classy demeanor.

    What a great interview!

    Meg is not perfect. Her opponent is so bad that many conservatives haven’t bothered to really consider her in depth. Regardless, she’s being smeared.

    Perhaps it’s a good thing that they are overreaching. Now, the next month will offer clarifications. That abuse? A high wage. That letter? Explicitly didn’t say the Mexican maid was illegal. These democrats are insisting everyone take the most paranoid and negative reaction to any issue involving a Mexican. Why?

    Probably, this is going to do real damage. Some people will think they need to fire a Mexican employee over these letters. I think that Allred’s claimed expectations don’t line up with reality and will annoy a lot of hispanics who don’t think they should be presumed illegal over this type of letter.

    Allred can claim she should have fired her in 2003, and also claim she abused her for instead paying her a very good wage and treating her well for years afterwards. But I think that BS could backfire.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  234. Dustin

    I think it will rile up the republicans.

    the dirty secret with bush is that alot of his support came from anger at the way the man was treated. if democrats calmed down and behaved more like normal people, Bush probably would have lost to kerry.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  235. Aaron, that’s what I’m hoping.

    This is how California has operated for a very long time. Dinosaurs like Jerry Brown don’t know or care about how to make a job… they know how to win elections with sleaze.

    The people have to decide if they want this to be how they run their state. Each election sees more smears and dumber ideas, and if the people have this angry reaction you mention, politicians will adapt to making real arguments instead of dumb smears.

    If California elects Brown, they are voting for smears in the next elections. Maybe enough good folks will turnout and say no to that.

    Dustin (b54cdc)


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