Patterico's Pontifications

3/21/2010

RIP USA

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:36 pm

With Stupak & Co. selling our their principles for an unenforceable executive order, revocable at will, it’s clear that ObamaCare is going to pass. I have said it time and time again: this legislation fundamentally changes the relationship between the government and the people.

And it’s not likely to go away. Expansion of government is historically a one-way ratchet. We’re still stuck with the New Deal, and we will never be rid of the impossible burdens it has placed on our government in the form of entitlements we can’t afford. We’re still stuck with the “Great Society” — the fabled “welfare reform” of the Clinton era being nothing but a tiny Band-aid on a gushing, cavernous chest wound — and we’ll never be rid of the culture of listlessness and criminality it spawned.

In truth, the American experiment began to end during the New Deal era, when the Supreme Court ruled that people couldn’t grow their own crops on their own land for their own purposes if Congress said they couldn’t. This is just the logical end-point.

I started this post wanting to talk about how to reverse this, because obviously that has to be the goal. But I’m just not in the mood. Like you, I’m just too angry to think constructively.

Leftists will chuckle at our anger because they don’t really feel threatened by the government being in control of vast swaths of the economy. They would be fine with the government running absolutely everything.

But those of us who thought the USA was supposed to be about freedom — we recognize what’s at stake. The American experiment is dead. Maybe tomorrow we can talk about resurrecting it — but today, I’m still in the anger stage of the mourning process.

It may last a while.

UPDATE: Mark Steyn is in a similar mood:

Well, it seems to be in the bag now. I try to be a sunny the-glass-is-one-sixteenth-full kinda guy, but it’s hard to overestimate the magnitude of what the Democrats have accomplished. . . . It’s a huge transformative event in Americans’ view of themselves and of the role of government. You can say, oh, well, the polls show most people opposed to it, but, if that mattered, the Dems wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing. Their bet is that it can’t be undone, and that over time, as I’ve been saying for years now, governmentalized health care not only changes the relationship of the citizen to the state but the very character of the people. . . .

Steyn also notes that the crushing costs of this program will mean massive defense cuts, which will eliminate our standing as a superpower.

Just another cheery note on a cheery day.

UPDATE x2: Here’s a positive action that fits my mood: I just joined the Facebook page of Stupak’s opponent. I may send him money. Running that fucking guy Stupak into the ground would be a positive statement — plus the thought of it is enough to take the edge off the anger.

Looks like a lot of other people have the same idea. Thanks to Mike K and Eric Blair.

UPDATE x3: If you’re looking for optimism, Hinderaker has it. Thanks to JVW.

That’ll probably be me tomorrow. Today, leave me to my anger. It’s not a defeatist attitude; it’s a recognition that what we have to do is actually resurrect something that has been killed. It’s a recognition of how dire the situation really is. Plus, that’s just the mood I’m in. Can’t be changed.

I can’t bear to watch the vote come in. I’m going to go play basketball with my son.

163 Responses to “RIP USA”

  1. Well said. You and me both. This is a dark day for this country…

    Olliander (9a7bc6)

  2. It may be a little tiresome to point out, but Ronald Reagan would never have said such a thing. I can’t and won’t believe such a declaration is something set in stone.

    skwiself (7c068a)

  3. At what point would we be justified in demanding a new Declaration of Independence and a revolution from tyranny? It’s a logical extension of your fighting words, Pat.

    The justifications our founders used to extricate themselves out from under the Crown still apply, do they not?

    Is the HRC our Stamp Act?

    Ed from SFV (7f3244)

  4. My immigrant wife is outraged.

    She has strong beliefs about work ethic and the negative effect of subsidies.

    “Why work hard?” she asked. “To pay for someone who doesn’t want to be bothered with things like hard work?”

    Steve G (7d4c78)

  5. I wonder if the stock markets will stay open tomorrow.

    roy (a1e331)

  6. On the other hand, the horde of salespersons calling on Stupak, et al., offering to sell him the Brooklyn Bridge should stimulate the economy somewhat. We should start a pool here to predict the date when The One inevitably declares his promise to Stupak inoperative.

    M. Scott Eiland (c552ec)

  7. http://3.ly/ohfn

    David Corn

    Stupak deal is the biggest nothing-burger. No calories. #hcr

    ——-
    http://3.ly/0Mx2

    Ezra Klein

    The Stupak negotiations have been vaguely farcical from the beginning, as the bill is already very restrictive on abortion. But the upside of the farce is that the deal they’ve reached isn’t particularly objectionable: Barack Obama will sign an executive order stating, essentially, that the law will follow the law.

    ——–

    Daily Kos…

    What’s particularly galling here is that the executive order reiterates the Senate bill, which Stupak could have accepted weeks ago.

    http://3.ly/qQXV

    ——

    Everyone should keep looking for lefty commentary on this Executive Order deal…

    yarrrrr (35f85d)

  8. I gate to say it, especially since our host works in the legal system, but we may have just reached the point that the only way to restore the constitution and our nation is civil war.

    It hasn’t quite tipped over yet, but we now have a government of tyrants in Washington.

    May God have mercy on us because our own government does not. :(

    anon (b16fde)

  9. IT AIN”T OVER “TIL WE SAY IT’S OVER!
    DAMMIT.

    j.b. (5cda52)

  10. At the risk of sounding like a polyanna, take heart. One of the cornerstones of our democracy has been breached and now the sleeping giant has been awakened (finally!) by the serious overreach and breathtaking arrogance by those who deem us to be nothing more than their proletariat.

    Watch what happens – the Dems have made the kind of unforced errror that will define them for generations to come, at their ultimate expense. From now on, every time an individual gets overcharged for their medical bills, receives insufficient coverage by their insurance company, and has to wait hours for their GP – ALL OF THIS will be blamed on Obamacare, no matter how illogical. Count on it.

    Dmac (ca1d8c)

  11. As mentioned in the other thread, the Exec order doesn’t even have to be rescinded by the president. It means nothing, whether Stupak realizes this but thinks it will cover him politically anyway (rules smules, principles sminciples) or he’s brain dead at the moment.

    I wonder how many intellectually honest people on the left, like aphrael, understand we are not just spewing political grandstand material, but really mean what we say. This has nothing to do with the disengenious strawman of either fix healthcare with this bill or you’re a neanderthal, but rather probably 95% of the people in opposition to this bill believe significant things need to be done regarding healthcare, but this is not it.

    If it does pass and withstand whatever challenges come its way, it will be interesting to see what happens to med school enrollment, and if anyone really cares. We may end up making the world’s healthcare worse as well as our own as the world’s docs (continue) to come to the US as even the worst job here is better than many elsewhere. More people like Dr. Hassan.

    Does Obama play the violin?

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  12. It may be a little tiresome to point out, but Ronald Reagan would never have said such a thing. I can’t and won’t believe such a declaration is something set in stone.

    I know, and I keep thinking about him when I tell myself I should just be a happy warrior about this. But it’s not working. Maybe tomorrow. Today I’m just mad.

    I started off this post talking about how our goal has to be to repeal this thing — but the reality of what we have to do in order to repeal it . . . well, talking about stuff like that just doesn’t fit my mood right now. I just feel like letting loose a howl of anger.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  13. go buy a rifle and some ammo Pat, you’ll feel better.
    preferably something in either 5.56 x 45mm or 7.62 x 51mm, so ammo can be scavenged.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  14. Next step, give amnesty to 30 million illegals so they can get on the gravy train. Obama and the other leftists are out to wreck this country. This health care bill is only the latest step along that road.

    Zoltan (aa0da2)

  15. Just look at the states that have filed to have this thing basically declared null and void in their locales. As Churchill famously said after the D – Day landings, “this is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning.”

    Damn straight.

    Dmac (ca1d8c)

  16. Thank you, Pat, for all your efforts. I too am so mad I could curse and spit. It’s a sad day, and I hope there are better minds who can find a way to reverse this abomination of the Constitution.

    Anon #8, I’ve thought the exact same thing. God help us all.

    10SCgal (d38c1c)

  17. The Democrats’ choices will enslave us to debt and government bureaucracy but getting mad doesn’t change that. I’m following Boehner’s good advice: Behave like grown-ups and don’t taunt.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  18. Some choice quotes from the Declaration of Independence:

    That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

    In every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    – Amen, brother. Amen.

    Icy Texan (3c6969)

  19. Stupak’s Republican opponent, a general surgeon in the upper peninsula who has never run for office has a Facebook page that is exploding in new friends and contributors. He needs to get a donation button app on his web site and then he could have a donation bomb.

    His name is Benishek and he looks like a good guy. The appropriate response now is to donate to these guys’ opponents and then e-mail the Congress critter to let them know what you have done.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  20. Stupak = Stupid; he was played, and he knows he was played.

    Like our esteemed host, I don’t see how this can ever be repealed. We will have gone from a system in which the individual was responsible for his own health care to one in which the government is responsible for it, in the end.

    I went through most of my anger at this yesterday, but realize that anger does me no good. Barack Obama campaigned on this, and the American people were foolish enough to elect him. We may make the Democrats pay for this huge mistake in 2010 and 2012, but this terrible mistake will last as long as our country lasts.

    The depressed Dana (474dfc)

  21. Dmac, I’d like to agree, but the thing is the public likely will buy the lie that somehow all of it is still the Repubs fault.

    It’s like Niemuller, “…and then they came for me, and no one was left to help”. Famous last words of lobbyists, journalists, industrialists, and financiers, etc., who make their beds with Obama at the present thinking they will get ahead, or at least survive.

    Of course, there is still the possibility that sanity will rule the day after all, it has before.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  22. Look at this picture, with the crowd cheering wildly after the GOP put the “Don’t Tread on Me” banner over the railing:

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWU4NTE5NDYyODA4MzBjNjBkMzZhYzYxMTA4MTNkNjE=%22

    Oh yeah – bring. it. on!

    Dmac (ca1d8c)

  23. Hey, Patterico. First, get ready for the usual ProgLeft types to crow and carry on here on your blog. And their childishness will be relevant to something you wrote:

    “..Leftists will chuckle at our anger because they don’t really feel threatened by the government being in control of vast swaths of the economy. They would be fine with the government running absolutely everything….”

    But that isn’t altogether correct, Patterico. Leftists don’t mind left of center governments in control of absolutely everything.

    And that is the part they miss. Part of it is how well the MSM has toadied up to the Left, by not calling the Left on hypocrisy. Things that were a very big deal indeed when Republicans did them are suddenly not important when Democrats do them. But the blogosphere is keeping those things from being swept under the rug. The polls demonstrate this.

    But since the majority of people in this country (as opposed to what Pelosi and others have claimed) do not approve not only of this bill, but also the process…

    What goes around comes around. Period. The Left needs to be ready for the Right to use precisely these tools. And they will carry on then, and we will all laugh. But like now, it won’t matter.

    You may be right about a fundamental restructuring of the relationship between government and citizens (and noncitizens, friends). But when the choices go down, and the taxes go up…well…

    And if anyone on the Left thinks all this will help them in 2010 and 2012, why, they are just as smart as they always claimed that GW Bush, Quayle, and Reagan were.

    Change is coming. And the undemocratic Democratic party are helping to make it possible, but not in the way they think.

    Time to get to work, folks. Time to throw these people out, no matter if they have an R or a D after their names. Me, I am going to be contributing bucks to lots and lots of people who oppose folks who let this happen.

    And I am going to start with Stupak’s opponent.

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=share&gid=287806148754

    Two words, folks: Scott Brown.

    The Left wants you to just lie down and take it. Isn’t that how they view their own relationship with a Democrat controlled government?

    Eric Blair (21af67)

  24. Nah. It’s pretty much over. Read Mark Steyn’s sobering columns over the past few weeks—it reiterates the points of this post.

    Once these bureaucratic behemoths (and the dependents on them) are put into place, it’s almost impossible to roll back.

    Sure, there will be a conservative “movement” in the USA going forward, in the same sense that Great Britain has the Tories. They will be in the government maintaining the status quo instead of trying to cut it down. That would take much more political courage than I’m willing to give this crop of Republicans credit for…

    Olliander (9a7bc6)

  25. Stupak said last year he was willing to give in to pass health care.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  26. Fly all flags half-staff (mast?) this week and we’ll send em a message…

    yourlilsis (424a94)

  27. Stop it! All of you! This country is not dead, by any means! How can you say this when you SAW it in motion this weekend? All those people, called 24 hours earlier, descending on the mall? My GOD, it was inspiring!

    GAthered out in front of the Capitol, watching as the Queen marched in with her gavel, toward her throne! We are not finished, by any means, and it is a disgrace to this wonderful nation and to the millions of patriots who have suffered and died for her to be talking like this! Honestly.

    Are we going out with a whimper? I DON”T THINK SO! NOT ME ANYWAY! I’m totally beat, exhausted. I’ve been posting on my website faithfully for months, keeping people updated, raised money for several billboards, gone to tea parties, donated to candidates….I AM NOT FINISHED!

    NO, I”M SORRY, SIR, NO! You go out that way if you want, but NOT ME! I respect you all too much to say nothing.

    They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?
    The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.

    Tea Party at Perrysburg (cb0e17)

  28. Well said, Eric Blair, Icy Texan and Tea Party at Perrysburg. Count me in.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  29. MD, I cannot share the pessimism, although I definitely was pissed off yesterday, after I realized that this catastrophe was going to be enacted. But our country’s genius is that we have the innate ability to re – invent ourselves when the circumstances demand it. They do demand it now, and things are going to happen that haven’t been seen in two generations. Congress, the Presidency, and our local representatives are going to be held accountable for their actions from now on, and once you’ve enraged and energized the broad middle spectrum of this country, look the f-ck out below.

    Dmac (ca1d8c)

  30. I’ve read your blog for sometime but have never felt compelled to comment. However, this post captured what I am feeling so well I just wanted to say thanks for getting out there what I believe so many us feel right now.

    While I know that I will certainly feel the pain of the demise of the U.S.A, it is my children and grandchildren for which I fear. The passage of this monstrosity of a bill signifies that freedom is now dead. We are now subservient to the political class. The American dream is officially gone. RIP

    TurleysMom (9e7b91)

  31. OK, let me try to buck up some courage. John Hinderaker over at Powerline has found a (very meager) silver lining to all this gathering storm. It may be whistling past the graveyard, sure, but we don’t have much else right now.

    JVW (fd30ab)

  32. The amazing thing to observe is how liberals and progressives are totally oblivious to any notion of concepts such as debt, debt service, budgets, deficits, etc. — the basic elements of the federal (and state) balance sheets. They are either outright ignorant with respect to these things, or throroughly indifferent. Either way, they seem to believe that money grows on trees and that the federal government’s treasury is like Scrooge McDuck’s swimming pool — overflowing with money. Their belief that the government has endless resources to provide largesse is a form of complete delusion. And, as I’ve posted elsewhere, Pelosi has the utter nerve to claim this vote is as important as the Social Security Act. She should be embarrassed to even bring up Social Security — an argument that was never framed by the GOP that I believe would have resonated with the American people is that it is utterly irresponsible for the Dems to create a new, costly entitlement when Social Security and Medicare can’t even honor their respective obligations to future beneficiaries (i.e., current workers paying into the system)!! It is grossly unfair to current workers. If an entity or person cannot honor commitments and debts already incurred, it is the height of recklessness to assume new obligations and debts.

    Guy Jones (7a4dff)

  33. With Stupak & Co. selling our their principles for an unenforceable executive order, revocable at will, it’s clear that ObamaCare is going to pass.</blockquote

    Pat, I'd say they are acting on their principles.

    Selling out their constituents, who they led to believe they had different principles? Sure.

    But now the mask is off and it becomes obvious who they truly are.

    Steve (7badec)

  34. Dmac, historically Americans don’t do well when times are good, do we? We do, however, rise to the occasion when times are challenging.

    I think we are going to be seeing that in the next ten years. And despite the pain and suffering, it may end up being a good thing. Because most Americans, right now, cannot define what it is to be an American. Why, we have a President who thinks it is to be a European. And a Congress that seems to think that wanting something to be true makes it so, finances be damned.

    My guess is that we will have the real, central Culture War in the coming months and years. And the polls suggest to me that many Americans do “get it.” Why, what is the President’s approval rating, right now? And does anyone think it will go up next week?

    Time to put on our adult clothes and get to work. Cartoons and cereal time is over.

    Eric Blair (21af67)

  35. I like this quote from the Facebook website of Stupak’s opponent, Dr. Dan Benishek:

    From now on, when someone talks big and acts small, they are a Stupak. His name will live in infamy.

    Benishek is accepting contributions here:

    Benishek for Congress
    802 Pentoga Trail
    Crystal Falls, MI 49920

    FEC states that any contribution of $200.00 or more must be accompanied with your occupation.

    Hopefully he will soon be able to accept online donations and then become the next Scott Brown.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  36. If the experiences of the supposed healthcare reform legislation in Massachusetts over the recent past are a sign of what’s to come, policymaking similar to that but on a larger, national scale should put a nice big monkey wrench into the economy.

    If expenses to both employers and employees under big-mommy government mandates are going to result in the law of unintended consequences (ie, an increase in costs far more than expected or wanted), that along with uncertainty in general over the legislative sewer created by Obama and Co. should place a greater psychological chill on the populace.

    Sort of 1930s Redux, or a variation of what happened over 60 years ago, when Hoover and Roosevelt, right after the great stock market crash of 1929, ratcheted up income taxes by a huge amount. IOW, they added insult to injury and made a bad situation even worse.

    Mark (411533)

  37. Thanks Mike K. and Eric Blair – Tom Daschle learned there are consequences of votes, and so will Stupak.

    Tea Party, no one is giving up, some of us just start at the “it is glum” point to get roused, like “Puddleglum”.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  38. I linked the optimistic Hinderaker post in an update, with attribution.

    I also linked to the Facebook page of Stupak’s opponent, which suits my mood better. Let’s run that Stupak guy into the ground.

    As I say in the last update, I can’t bear to watch this vote come in. I’m going to go play basketball with my son.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  39. Wake me up when the Republicans are ready to use the same tactics to take the country back.

    Conceal your views…present yourself as who you are not….astroturf and amplify then incrementally gain advantage….use taxpayer dollars to fund partisan politcal organization under the guise of “social justice” or “reform”.

    The tea parties are slowly discovering the methods, but I fear it is too late.

    dan tana (03b5b7)

  40. No way I’m watching this vote. I’m not a masochist.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  41. Dmac,

    I’ll hope with you that it doesn’t turn out as simply more swallowing the lies. On one hand if sanity has a place, people should have realized the nonsense by now, hence my wondering if they will ever come to their senses.

    On the other hand, it is true that evil always eventually overreaches and fails.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  42. Stupak was never ever sincere it was a feeble transparent attempt to save two dozen dem seats

    actually, hope this anger that people are feeling is also directed at the tea party organizers (not the protestors the rank and file but their so called leadership) that have tried to disrupt republican elections rather than addressing the democrats

    The next republicn speaker in 10 some odd months should stop the government, halt everything until its repealed. Then force the Bush social security reform and original tax cuts (not the ones passed but the original cuts that were bartered away)

    EricPWJohnson (44912d)

  43. this legislation fundamentally changes the relationship between the government and the people.

    That so many see this change as a feature is stunning. Still. There is no realistic thought to the future and unintended consequences. Just feel good right here and right now. Look, we’ve done something historical! Monumental! Life changing for all Americans! Yay us!

    The battle has just begun.

    dana (1e5ad4)

  44. Great post. This will not end well. It never does. Look at any “people’s” revolution and you will find a sorry record of misery and death. San Fran Nan is Robespierre.

    We are Venezuela now.

    Patricia (e1047e)

  45. The best thing the Republicans can do is to go all the way – not stop short like the leadership did to Newt but go for broke

    Make Obama sign the largest tax cut in world history

    Make him scale back the largest transfer of wealth since god created the planet

    EricPWJohnson (44912d)

  46. dan tana smells like a Moby to me.

    John Hitchcock (22aed8)

  47. Patricia, the current Drudge photo of Nancy Pelosi complements your comparison.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  48. Sure does, Dana. She wields the power.

    Patricia (e1047e)

  49. i’m with Sam in how to respond to this bullsh1t:
    “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds”
    and
    “Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can”
    and last, but certainly not least
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  50. Damn it! Change history.

    NO MORE POLITICS AS USUAL! Let’s make these people pay for trying to take our freedoms.

    We are heirs to the heroes of Bunker Hill, Bastogne and Iwo Jima. Are we gonna dishonor their memory by giving up now?

    The problem has always been US.

    We have let our POS Republicans screw us again and again.

    You know why the leftists rammed this thru? Because they knew if they didn’t, their base would abandon them and they’d have nothing left.
    Our people take us for granted. No more. They need to know that if they ‘reach across the aisle’ and if they are more concerned about the parasites in American society than our desire for repeal, they’ll have nothing left either.

    We are slated for massive gains in 2010. WE can consolidate those in 2012. Then we put the same pressure on the REpublicans we put on the Dems. We kept this crap at bay for 14 months, and the Dems could care less about us. The republicans need us. Put the same pressure on them and they’ll cave. And we’ll get what we want.

    QUIT LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH NOT REPEALING TRASH LIKE THIS BILL.

    avgjo (adca8f)

  51. Zoltan said part of it and I commented the whole scenario yesterday as a prediction–Healthcare gets passed and the dems feel threatened, so before November they pass a immigration bill legalizing 20-30 million new citizens and march them to the polls in November. These new citizens are very thankful for all their goodies–how do you think they will vote? We have alot of work to do!!

    bald01 (35bc9b)

  52. donate straight to the candidates: take the money away from the Beltway RINOs that got us here.

    Romney for President? go to hell… Newt? you can join him there. McLame? its long past time for you to go to the retirement home with all the other doddering old fools.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  53. The silver lining: This is the last Democrat President and the last Democrat Congress of my lifetime. The downside? Between poor policy choices and inattention to business, we may enter a deeper recession in the fall. Depending on their reaction, we could have a new Depression or runaway inflation. Or both. Perhaps too high a price excising this failed political class.

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  54. Make the Republicans ram it thru!

    avgjo (adca8f)

  55. It looks like now is the time to pack up the supplies and move to the Sierra Maestra.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4c0b43)

  56. David Frum is throwing in the GOP towel:

    if HCR prevails, Republicans need an accountability moment. Jim DeMint/ Rush / Beck etc. ed us to Waterloo all right. Ours.

    I sure wouldn’t want to be stuck in a foxhole with Frum. He sounds like a quitter.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  57. In the dojo where I take karate, we acknowledge the American flag before every class begins. The instuctor will sometimes ask, “What do you think of when you see the flag?” The appropriate response is, “I can be anything I want to be.” For the last 15 months, I’ve resisted the urge to substite my own reply: “What a bunch of fucking morons we are.”

    Look, if topless dancing is protected by the First Amendment, surely someone can make a reasonable Thirteenth Amendment case against income transfers — taking my compensation to benefit others who did not expend their labor to earn it is nothing more than slavery.

    Diffus (013687)

  58. I’m with you. Angry and despondent. I will not sit by and watch this happen. I will do all I can to reverse the course we are now on. It starts at the local level and will not end until we are either a second rate socialist state, or teh constitution means something again.

    Trey (60bbc6)

  59. It has been frequently said that eternal vigilance is necessary to preserve our liberties. It is equally true that eternal vigilance is necessary to keep democracies and their governments truly liberal. We in the United States have had firsthand experience with that truism… For, as soon as the clear action of the new administration… had started the wheels of industry turning, there came the demand from some sources to stop the reforms, and to let things begin again to run on as they had during the previous decade[s].

    The people of the United States have always understood that the new administration never intended to be a mere rescue party– organized save the economic system and turn it over to the small, powerful group which had formally controlled it through their concentrated economic power. The government … was determined not only to save the system, but also to remove from it the abuses, evils and widespread maladjustments which had brought it to the very brink of destruction. The government was determined that the system, thus preserved and reformed, should no longer be subject to the control of the handful of men and corporations that had dominated in the false boom days…

    To carry out that determination was to resist… all the efforts of mighty forces– day by day, year by year. These forces had tremendous interests at stake– wealth, privilege, economic power, political power. Although few in number, they had the resources which enabled them to make the most noise, and to become the most vociferous in the press, over the radio, through newspaper and outdoor advertising, by floods of telegrams and letters to the Congress by professional lobbyists– by all the many means of propaganda and public pressure which have been developed in recent years.

    Leftists will chuckle at our anger because they don’t really feel threatened by the government being in control of vast swaths of the economy. They would be fine with the government running absolutely everything.

    The true liberal does not claim, of course, that the remedies with which he proposes to attain his objectives are perfect. But he is willing to start with something less than perfect in this imperfect world. The conservative, on the other hand, believes generally that all the remedies proposed by the government itself are usually unnecessary, and that perfection can be obtained more readily and more quickly through private initiative. It is a comparatively simple thing for a nation to determine, by its votes, whether it chooses the liberal or conservative form of government.

    President Franklin D. Roosevelt, ‘Public Papers’ 1941.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  60. An unpopular bill by a wildly unpopular Congress (running neck and neck with child molesters), with BI-PARTISAN opposition and protests across the land.

    The question is not what will happen, but “What will you do to make it happen?”

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  61. With an impending entitlement obligating the Treasury of the United States to unlimited future expenditures on medical care, Moody’s will be forced to downgrade the AAA bond rating enjoyed by the U.S.Government, which will immediately effect the debt-service costs of this country.

    We used to hear during VietNam, “What if they held a war, and nobody came?”
    Well, we have to worry now “What if they held a bond auction, and nobody bids?”

    For those who don’t remember the inflation of the Carter years, buy what you can now, before the prices start to go up exponentially.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4c0b43)

  62. The GOP absolutely needs to start beating the drums about the entitlement mentality that the Democrats have foisted upon us and the urgent need for reform. As counter-intuitive as it may sound, now would be the perfect time to reintroduce the need for Social Security reform which reduces the governments obligations and demands more hands-on management from the citizens (yes, I do mean some sort of private accounts). For those who always claim that there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two major parties, having one selling a “sit back and let the government provide for you” agenda versus one with a “the citizen bears the primary responsibility for his or her well-being” agenda would help us decide whether we will be just another Western European social welfare state or the America that most of us have believed in throughout our lives.

    JVW (fd30ab)

  63. I said all along that this bill was a lose/lose deal for the Dems, and I still think that is the case. I’m looking forward to the subpoenas coming from the GOP majority next year. Let’s get Holder talking under oath.

    Subotai (3da0ad)

  64. DRJ wrote:

    No way I’m watching this vote. I’m not a masochist.

    Well, the first vote, on the rules for the debate, passed, with 224 Democrats voting for it. I did watch, because I’m stupid.

    The masochistic Dana (474dfc)

  65. I feel an e-group hug comin’ on! Lay it on me brothers and sisters!

    CT Lostaglia (b64b49)

  66. “Stop it! All of you! This country is not dead…”

    Yes, it is. America is dead, as far as freedom goes. Died a long time ago. This is just another nail in the coffin. And, if full on socialized medicine doesn’t pass this time, it will next time.

    Most Americans stopped wanting to be free a long time ago. They’d rather be taken care of, than live free. That’s why Democrats have been winning most of the elections ever since 1933.

    Dave Surls (8a236c)

  67. My 77 y/o mother was too distraught to call me, so she sent me an email with the message: :(
    My daughter is changing her major tomorrow, giving up her dream of being an Occupational Therapist, so yeah, today has stunk on ice. I’m writing off today, too, and starting fresh tomorrow.

    sybilll (535a82)

  68. Never forget how we got here – RINOs doing their usual nothing for the country while Liberals slowly added more and more laws, fees, regulations and taxes. At last, Bush opened the door all the way and Obama walked in. Now we’re all going to pay.

    Metallica (bb58d8)

  69. What has been exposed is the idiocy of the Democratic senators who drove such hard bargains for their votes on cloture. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) drove a hard bargain, a tremendous bargain, for the “Cornhusker Kickback,” and helped the Democrats get their sixty votes. Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) got the “Louisiana Purchase,” and the Democrats got her vote to help reach sixty.

    Of course, once the bill was passed, and the only thing left was reconciliation, no filibuster is possible, so the Democrats can dispense with the Nebraska and Louisiana deals, which the House insists upon, and which the Senate, no longer needing Senators Nelson or Landrieu, will agree to. Either these two senators are total idiots or they were deliberately lying to their constituents all along — assuming that both aren’t possible at the same time. Either they are liars, or they are the useful idiots a rather famous communist of a century ago mentioned.

    The Dana who notices these things (474dfc)

  70. …because they don’t really feel threatened by the government being in control of vast swaths of the economy.

    Not now. But watch what happens when it’s their ox that’s being gored – of all the voices of complaint, theirs will likely be the loudest and have the highest pitch.

    Blacque Jacques Shellacque (5ef35b)

  71. David Frum has lost whatever influence or insight he ever had. I subscribed to his web site for a while but the commenters are 95% leftists now and I haven’t looked at it in a month or more.

    The next big push is the election. We need to be supporting the opponents of these corruptocrats. My motto is “Carry out the trash in November.” Stupak’s opponent may not be as savvy as Scott Brown but I’ll bet he gets some professional help tomorrow. His facebook page is exploding.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  72. Those are the ones who are usually sent to the camps first.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4c0b43)

  73. Mr Surls wrote:

    And, if full on socialized medicine doesn’t pass this time, it will next time.

    Of course, because this bill, which depends upon the private insurance companies to provide health insurance, will eventually regulate them into into non-profitability, at which point they’ll go out of business. The government will be required, then, to take over more and more of our health care coverage, until, eventually, it covers everybody.

    We have been told that this bill will insure that we continue getting the same great care and have the same near-immediate access to health care, and it will add 32 million people to the system, and it will all cost us less money. We will get more, and it will cost us less. Apparently in Obamaland, 2 + 2 = 3¼!

    Our friends on the left will deny this, but this is a system which has been set up to fail. Once it fails, only Uncle Sam will be able to ride in and save it.

    The Dana who can do the math (474dfc)

  74. Earlier today Paul Ryan was saying “repeal and replace”. That sounds like a fine motto with bumper sticker simplicity for the next 2 elections. It evokes the concept of repeal of the most egregious parts along with consciously maintaining a few of the better parts while implementing cost savings and deficit reductions. It shows we are not looking to do that old strawman named “NOTHING”, but that we can do better–much much better for ourselves and our children.

    Mark Steyn’s piece that was mentioned above really depressed me because I believe that as usual he nailed the likely big picture pretty well. But then I, too, was reminded of Reagan. In February next year it will be the 100th anniversary of his birth. I have already invited some people to a 100th birthday party for RR. In the meantime I am planning to hook my wagon to his star, and do all I can personally to make the composition of the US congress more favorable for repeal and replace this coming Nov. and in the 2012 election.

    elissa (bd35af)

  75. Pithy quote from FDR there, DSCSA, but American liberalism long ago sold our freedom for expediency and power.

    The government was determined that the system, thus preserved and reformed, should no longer be subject to the control of the handful of men and corporations that had dominated in the false boom days…

    If you don’t see the irony in posting that, you deserve everything you are about to get. But, hey, you were on the right side.

    Oops, made a funny typo in the first line. I meant “out,” not “our.” Works the same, though, doesn’t it?

    Ag80 (f67beb)

  76. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, ‘Public Papers’ 1941.

    Yea, he’s one to talk. The essence of the phony-baloney limousine liberal…

    Taxhistory.org:

    Consider, for instance, the tax returns of Franklin D. Roosevelt. The returns were not released during FDR’s presidency, but had they been, they would have proved an embarrassment. Tax Analysts has recently acquired from the National Archives copies of the tax returns that Roosevelt filed between 1913 and 1937. And as a group, they reveal something striking: Roosevelt — a vicious and moralistic scourge of tax avoiders everywhere — had a penchant for minimizing his own taxes.

    Throughout his 12 years in office, Roosevelt was a frequent critic of Americans who tried to avoid taxes, even using legal means. “Mr. Justice Holmes said, ‘Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society,’” Roosevelt told Congress in 1937. “Too many individuals, however, want the civilization at a discount.”

    But Roosevelt’s tax returns reveal him to be something of a hypocrite. At various points, both before and after his election to the White House, he indulged in the sort of tax avoidance that he claimed to find so objectionable.

    For instance, Roosevelt repeatedly urged Congress to end the tax-free treatment of interest on state and municipal bonds….Yet just a month before, FDR had filed a tax return indicating that he owned some $17,000 in tax-free bonds.

    An even more striking example of Roosevelt’s tax avoidance involved a technique that only a president could love. During his first term in office, FDR repeatedly claimed that he was exempt from the high tax rates on personal income that Congress had enacted — and Roosevelt had approved — in the revenue acts of 1934 and 1935.

    Mark (411533)

  77. The big push will now come in the reconciliation. Our friends on the left didn’t like the Senate bill, because it doesn’t include the public option insurance system. That’s not in there because the Democrats couldn’t get all sixty Democratic senators to agree to it, and they needed every last one of them to pass the cloture vote.

    But under reconciliation, no filibuster is possible, and that means they need only fifty Democratic senators and Vice President Biden . . . and the House can add the public option to the reconciliation bill, and the Democrats can pass it in the Senate. the Senate Democratic leadership knew that all along.

    The disgusted Dana (474dfc)

  78. Testing timestamp.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  79. OK, at Drew’s urging I finally converted to Daylight Savings.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  80. Shouldn’t you do the right thing and convert it to Real Time, otherwise known as Eastern Daylight Time?

    The Dana in the Real Time Zone (474dfc)

  81. This blog resists the Eastern Establishment!

    Bradley J. Fikes (9eb641)

  82. Stupak: A whole lot of stupid.

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  83. I just read at Ace’s about the possibility of a Motion to Recommit with Instructions. He lays out he possibility of Republicans offering the original Stupak language as the instructions. Desperate times, desperate measures.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  84. When I joined Benishek’s Facebook group earlier I think it had about 1410 members. Now it has 5310.

    Wow.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  85. Is there a PayPal donation set up yet, Patterico?

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  86. Here’s more on the motion to recommit Dana mentioned

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/88167-democrats-worry-gop-motion-could-stop-healthcare

    elissa (bd35af)

  87. My question to Stupak is, “If you *really* believe in saving the unborn, why the hell are you sticking a knife in the backs of all Americans both living AND unborn?”

    He is throwing the futures of all those babies into the garbage because they will be paying for Stupak’s mistake forever. How clueless can he be? Obviously clueless enough to not to want to be re-elected for starters.

    I’ve had my own pity party earlier but am now ready to FIGHT. There are lawsuits to be filed, work on campaigns to be done and notes to those traitors of America to be written. And if you write a check to a candidate opposing someone who voted for this monstrosity, send a photocopy to the soon-to-be ousted rep (acct # blackened out) so they know how much money is going to their opponent and why. AMERICA, LET’S ROLL!!

    poligrrl (675796)

  88. I joined too. Now Benishek’s at 5500 at 5:19!

    Patricia (e1047e)

  89. In lieu of fatalism about repeal I say let’s blow the whole damn thing up.

    I didn’t sign up for this.

    Not at all.

    happyfeet (71f6cb)

  90. I hope the pro-choice people remember how willing Democrats were to sell them out.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  91. Cloward and Piven thought small.

    happyfeet (71f6cb)

  92. Also, it’s not just Stupak. He had at least 7 co-conspirators:

    BRIAN BAIRD (WA)
    KATHLEEN DAHLKEMPER (PA)
    STEVE DRIEHAUS (OHIO)
    MARCY KAPTUR (OHIO)
    ALLAN MOLLOHAN (WV)
    EARL POMEROY (ND)
    NICK RAHALL (WV)
    BART STUPAK (MI)

    DRJ (daa62a)

  93. Boy now y’all are realizing Stupak is an idiot? This was clear when he was wrong about the funding in this bill.

    Now it’s clear again only for those who were holding out some hope that this guy, who said he wanted the bill passed, would sink it.

    imdw (c5488f)

  94. Part of me wants to give in, move to Belize and buy ammo in bulk. I am so bloody tired of trying to reason with people who think that the government’s job is to wipe their butt and make sure their milk bottle is the right temperature.

    The rest of me wants to finish gnashing my teeth tonight so that tomorrow I will come out fighting, fighting for keeps. No prisoners, no surrender. I am NOT giving up on my free country.

    Absolutely repeal. But I am telling you, if the GOP really wants to take back the House and the Senate in numbers that will make repeal possible, they will need to outline and detail – WITH PROOFS – what exactly they will do with health care reform. Then they need to bloody do it.

    Vivian Louise (643333)

  95. Benishek’s FB group had 5,900 members when I checked. Now including me.

    Bradley J. Fikes (9eb641)

  96. Good on you, Patterico, shooting hoops with the lad. Keeping the ticker in working order is the best preventative care there is. I applaud you.

    That said – BWAHAHAHAHA YOU LOST!

    D. Aristophanes (e30b00)

  97. Patrick or DRJ,

    check you.r mail.

    Scott Jacobs (mobile) (92fc99)

  98. the numbers don’t add up. there will be economic consequences of this bill that will shock the population, especially the producer class.

    ultimately voters vote their pocketbooks….it always had been and will be that way.

    dantana (03b5b7)

  99. Saw my full moniker isn’t showing up. Corrected that.

    “Don’t mourn – Organize.”

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  100. papa can you help me not be frightened

    happyfeet (71f6cb)

  101. Someone who does not think he is a troll wrote:

    “..That said – BWAHAHAHAHA YOU LOST!…”

    Three responses:

    (i) How tiresomely predictable.

    (ii) Actually we all lost, as you will see. Remember that, when Republicans are in power, they will do things just like this…to issues you feel are very important. And it won’t be different then, will it? Why, laws and rules aren’t malleable depending on the partisan affiliation, right? Riiigghhhht.

    (iii) And when Republicans do hit your Leftist world view with this strategy, I am not going to act like a snotty little child in response.

    You might think about all three of those things. The fact that part (ii) seems to escape the Left amazes me. I keep hearing how darned smart Leftists are supposed to be. Um. Not so much, apparently.

    Eric Blair (21af67)

  102. Never voting for an incumbent again. Never, never, never. Apologies to any here who might show up on a ballot as such; there is just no good reason to subject any citizen of any country to such temptations. Never, you hear? Not going to do it. What’s the score in this game of CalvinObamaBall now? I’m going to go eat supper and stick something in the DVD player. I can’t watch my country self-destruct like this, just don’t have the stomach.

    htom (412a17)

  103. when this war is over, “democrat” will be a party affiliation only found in hell.

    -with a hat tip to Adm. Halsey.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  104. The GOP has to join the tea party movement, not as leader but as listener. The tea partiers were learning about local politics so as to move into the Republican local organizations. This is exactly how to do it. You will always be disappointed by careerists but the principle is to get into the woodwork and turn the ship in the direction you want it to go. The New Left learned how to do this 40 years ago from Alinsky and have infiltrated the basic mechanics of the society. Our kids in school now learn leftist history and economics. If we are going to stop it, we have to learn how to grasp the levers at the bottom of the pyramid.

    Voting out the rascals is also important.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  105. As bad as I felt when Obama was elected, I feel even worse now.

    Start taking care of yourself because you ain’t gonna get no help from Obamacare when you get sick.

    Alta Bob (e8af2b)

  106. I expect that what really riles you is that yet another roundabout try at ending abortion failed.
    You would encourage and accept any breach or contortion of law or policy to do so. You lost. Again.
    But I do join you in hoping that Stupak gets buried.

    larry reilly (fadcab)

  107. Typical of DCSCA to be quoting the charlatan and fraud FDR.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  108. Someone find the video, if it exists, of Nikita Khrushchev’s “we will bury you” … snipping from Wikipedia:

    On August 24, 1963, Khrushchev himself remarked in his speech in Yugoslavia, “I once said, ‘We will bury you,’ and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you,” [4] a reference to the Marxist saying, “The proletariat is the undertaker of capitalism”, based on the concluding statement in Chapter 1 of the Communist Manifesto: “What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable”.

    htom (412a17)

  109. Um. Larry?

    “…You lost. Again….”

    Hold onto your hat. Your brothers and sisters are going to have a very difficult time in 2010 and 2012. And I promise, just as with the moron above, not to try and trashtalk you about your own upcoming disappointments. It’s immature, after all.

    Today, we all lost. You don’t see that know, but you will. I suspect all the Left of center immaturity is because, deep down, the progressive Leftists know it.

    Eric Blair (21af67)

  110. larry reilly, another day another lie by you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  111. D. Aristophanes – Time to change your diaper again.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  112. I really think that they know it, SPQR. They know that the way that this was done was unethical, possibly unconstitutional, and would have led to endless marches and protests had a Republican done it.

    And when the time comes, it will be done to them. Again, they know it. They’ll explain how “..that’s different…” but it won’t impress anyone.

    Especially voters. And I think they know that, too. Hence the childishness.

    They’ll look like the hypocrites they are.

    Eric Blair (21af67)

  113. “I expect that what really riles you is that yet another roundabout try at ending abortion failed.”

    larry the hack – Did any of the Republican proposals contain provisions ending abortion you ridiculous drooling moron?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  114. As I commented yesterday, this isn’t as upsetting to me as it is to a lot of others.

    The levels of corruption of our government elected officials, the bureaucrats who staff the infrastructure, and the private citizens who conspire to limit our freedoms for personal gain are at the point that labeling this a republic is laughable – and now at least a large percentage of the population knows it.

    Since everyone is in such a thoughtful mood, I challenge one and all to examine exactly what it is that you wish to see change.

    Do you want to roll back government authority? Eliminate various departments and unnecessary expenses? Hold government and individuals more accountable? Initiate far more transparency?

    For every affirmative answer you give to those and other questions, realize this:

    Each particular goal will enact a cost from you as well.

    We are all intertwined these days, and that elimination of a government department may result in a loss of a job for an uncle or niece. You cannot have it both ways. It will be messy, and it will affect people who are hardworking, innocent, and believe as you do. Any positive change of worthwhile magnitude will exact this cost, as it always has throughout history.

    Past this first step, you need to ask yourself not only what you would be capable of doing to enact these changes, but what you would support in others who are working towards these same goals.

    Again, you cannot have it both ways.

    What we have seen continue to occur time and again are unconstitutional violations of individual rights by those sworn to uphold said rights, all for the benefit of personal gain.

    When confronted with similar circumstances, the founding fathers did not grab a flintlock and a sword and kill a bunch of loyalists drinking in a bar to alleviate their anger.

    This is not because violence was out of the question. On the contrary, violence was necessary. What was out of the question was the lack of a common goal.

    What’s important to remember about the founding fathers is not whether they used violence or diplomacy, but that when the time came for action, the clarity of goals helped to ensure the effective use of protest, diplomacy, organization, and, yes, violence.

    If, as everyone seems to be saying, you are ‘fighting mad’, then it’s time to take a breath, calm down, and organize your thoughts.

    I will go out on a limb and say that I don’t believe that meaningful change can take place in this country without some drastic changes – changes that will upset many many people who have grown quite comfortable with things the way that they are. This cuts across race, gender, political ideology, class and income.

    It will also require much more than a ‘letter writing’ campaign.

    Sit down. Think about it. Revolutionary talk is cheap, but the actions are far more serious. If you truly feel we’ve lost our freedom, gaining freedom back will take focus, and, I’m afraid, most likely, bloodshed. Blood from those you like as well as from those who you do not.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  115. Eric – I think larry must have had some liquid courage to come back again today. He’s fundamentally a coward.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  116. Signs of the coming Demapocalypse: Obama jumps 7 points on gallup.

    imdw (842182)

  117. I’m not in a thoughtful mood I’m in a we don’t need no water let the …. burn mood

    happyfeet (71f6cb)

  118. If I look at what this bill is supposed to do — it remains to be seen if it actually will do what it is claimed it will — I can see one good thing: it will compel at least some of those who were freeloading — we’ll call them “Democrats” for short — to actually have to pay something for this. It will be interesting to hear the whining by some of those who supported ObamaCare when they see that yes, they now have to buy health insurance, whether they wish to or otherwise, with compliance enforced by the IRS. And, as you know, when it comes to the IRS, once they make a determination of taxes owed, they are right until you prove them wrong.

    As we’ve seen in every election, the more money you make, the more probable it is you voted Republican. If we assume that the more money you make, the more probable it is that you already have health insurance, then the people who will be more disproportionately impacted by this will be those who earn less, and are more probably Democrats.

    At the bottom end, of course, are those who make little or nothing at all, and whatever insurance they are compelled to buy will be wholly subsidized by the government; they, naturally, won’t have any objections at all, being the biggest winners. But, as they start to earn more, they’ll start to rise into the income levels where they have to pay for insurance on their own, now having no choice at all. As they struggle to make payments they might otherwise gamble and skip, as they just can’t quite buy their first house, because the government is taking too much from them in both taxes and now mandated insurance, we Republicans will remind them of just which party put that additional squeeze on them.

    As solace, it’s definitely bitter solace, but bitter is better than none at all.

    The slightly upbeat Dana (474dfc)

  119. That this monstrosity is going to bankrupt us is sure, even now we are losing our AAA rating.

    Apogee: Sit down. Think about it. Revolutionary talk is cheap, but the actions are far more serious. If you truly feel we’ve lost our freedom, gaining freedom back will take focus, and, I’m afraid, most likely, bloodshed. Blood from those you like as well as from those who you do not.

    Yes, I understand the cost. But then, I’ve schooled myself in freedom and liberty. I’ve always understood that true freedom and real liberty are blood-costly. They always have been and they always will be.

    Vivian Louise (643333)

  120. Vivian Louise: I’ve always understood that true freedom and real liberty are blood-costly.

    Then you understand that part of the cost may be either doing, assisting or supporting others in actions that may bring you into direct opposition with people such as Patterico and Jack Dunphy.

    Upon doing so, like the founding fathers, it is you who will be the criminal, derided by those whose physical and financial survival depends on separating you from those who seek the same goals. That is how it will work, and you can already see the initial feelers put out by Pelosi and the compliant media in the descriptions of the tea party protesters.

    They must not only divide those in opposition, but limit the options of the opposition.

    This is not a call to arms. It is a call to focus. That is far more powerful, if you have the stomach for it.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  121. Comment by The Dana in the Real Time Zone — 3/21/2010 @ 4:48 pm

    “Real Time” is Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), aka: Zulu! which now stands at 0155Z.

    AD - RtR/OS! (4c0b43)

  122. Comment by larry reilly — 3/21/2010 @ 6:13 pm

    actually, i’m a firm believer in abortion, and yours is long overdue.

    “Keep abortion safe and legal, often mandatory and occasionally retroactive.”

    PS: FOAD.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  123. The following is just the tip of the iceberg of the stink-o-rama that is Obamacare.

    Moreover, and quite honestly, if I didn’t have the current living example of the big-mommy healthcare experiment in Massachusetts — which allows for more than just guesswork and conjecture about the impact of Obamacare — I wouldn’t be as pissed off about the idiocy emanating from the left/Democrats.

    TheHill.com, 03/18/10:

    Lawmakers say they aren’t sure the IRS can handle the increased workload it will have if healthcare reform becomes law.

    The IRS would be charged with administering and collecting penalties on taxpayers who do not buy health insurance, but many think the understaffed agency will have big problems meeting that heavy mandate.

    Taxpayers could be required to buy insurance under President Barack Obama’s reform proposal by 2014 or face penalties of roughly $325 per individual that the IRS would administer and collect.

    That will take a lot of work for an agency that already faces huge demands.

    The IRS retrieved $2.35 trillion in 2009 by processing 236 million tax returns. It also is working to reduce a $345 billion gap in the taxes it collects and should collect.

    The IRS is also doing this work on a computer system that officials say is in desperate need of modernization.

    Assuming the healthcare legislation becomes law, the Congressional Budget Office expects the IRS will need roughly $10 billion over the next 10 years to meet its new responsibilities.

    National Treasury Employee Union (NTEU) President Colleen Kelly has called for increased funds if the healthcare mandate becomes law.

    ______________________________


    republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov, 3-18-10:

    Highlights of New IRS Authority

     IRS agents verify if you have “acceptable” health care coverage

     IRS has the authority to fine you up to $2,250 or 2 percent of your income (whichever is greater) for failure to prove that you have purchased “minimum essential coverage”

     IRS can confiscate your tax refund

     IRS audits are likely to increase

     IRS will need up to $10 billion to administer the new health care program this decade

     IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees to investigate and collect billions in new taxes from Americans

     Nearly half of all these new individual mandate taxes will be paid by Americans earning less than 300 percent of poverty ($66,150 for a family of four)

    SPECIAL EXEMPTION

    Democrats prohibit the IRS from imposing these taxes and penalties on illegal immigrants

    Mark (411533)

  124. I plan on doing everything in my power to take back MY COUNTRY – one punk politician at a time. I pray that people across the political spectrum don’t let this die as an issue before November. Write letters, carry signs, pressure local Republican committee members to commit to this abomination’s overturn. Make the grassroots drive the agenda from now on.

    The battle cry has been raised now heed its call. Make them pay for this.

    in_awe (44fed5)

  125. Notice with this “executive order” that Stupak sells out for, that Obama breaks his pledge not to use executive orders to contradict statutory law.

    This was something that Democrats falsely accused Bush of doing, that they brazenly actually do.

    I can’t figure out any Obama promise that he’s not failed to break.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  126. It is done.

    Ed from SFV (7f3244)

  127. Obama said it was “good for everybody” to spread the wealth around. He’s following through on that.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  128. DRJ, something tells me that the President’s expression about “spreading the wealth” does not refer to his own wealth.

    That would be…different, of course.

    Eric Blair (21af67)

  129. Apogee nails it at #114. The problems of this country are systemic, not ideological, and it’s going to take a mass-realization of that fact by people on both sides of the aisle to change anything of significance.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  130. Comment by Apogee — 3/21/2010 @ 6:24 pm

    Freedom never has been free.

    When you are facing the loss of all that you believe in, and a good part of what you have, what do you have to lose?

    AD - RtR/OS! (4c0b43)

  131. Well, as many others have said more eloquently than me, this is just the beginning of the end.

    This is the point that America finally said, we’re no better than anything. In fact, we’re less. We’re nothing but the last waste-pickers of a dream that was doomed from its beginning by its eventual success.

    The country that, reluctantly, engaged in two World Wars, to advance freedom and to keep tyranny away from its shores, has finally said: Nope, it’s too hard. We don’t want to do it anymore.

    We would rather be another Great Britain, France, the Netherlands, another Greece, Mexico or Canada. We have nothing more to offer and nothing more to gain.

    This nation has lost. We have nothing to stand for, so we have nothing to defend. We are done.

    I know a couple of people will come on here and say “wait a minute, this was about the richest nation on Earth providing health care to millions who couldn’t afford it.”

    But this wasn’t about that at all. This was about finally bringing a great people to its knees for nothing more than a couple of pieces of silver and the power to command those who disagree.

    Ag80 (f67beb)

  132. I read tonight that the U.S. credit rating has been downgraded. O’Dumbo the now proven Islamist is doing his part to support the Islamist scream ‘death to America’.

    Scrapiron (4e0dda)

  133. Scrapiron:

    I would suggest, strongly, that you post somewhere else.

    Ag80 (f67beb)

  134. I already moderated the comment, Ag80, but I’m glad you agree.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  135. DRJ:

    Thanks.

    Ag80 (f67beb)

  136. [...] enough about that. Some of us on our side already need to be talked down from the ledge so I won’t belabor the already known injustice coming from the administration and the Democrats. [...]

    » Blog Archive » The Health Care Bill Passed and Why It’s O.K. (46909d)

  137. Stupak bought with 726,409 fetus….
    I mailed Dan Benishek a check tonight, his web site is not up yet…will send more…NO that Stupak can understand?
    In Alabama

    hillx3 (ccd324)

  138. The name Bart Stupak is now synonymous with Benedict Arnold.

    Both have betrayed their country for the aggrandizement of their own ego.

    As a Michigan voter, I will endeavor to ensure that his name lives on in the proper context.

    My understanding is that Benishek has gained over 200k Facebook friends today. I don’t think Bart’s going to like the last chapter in this book.

    NavyspyII (df615d)

  139. AD – RtR/OS! – 8:01pm “When you are facing the loss of all that you believe in, and a good part of what you have, what do you have to lose?”

    Your life. Maybe the lives of family members and friends. Even people you don’t know, but who support your ideas completely.

    Even something as innocuous as disruption of local electrical service might end up killing an elderly home care patient who had no idea that the back up battery for the life support apparatus needed to be changed every year. And that’s just one hypothetical example. When you begin to back away from consequences that are counter to your stated intent, you are quickly paralyzed with inaction.

    This is not an omelette / eggs discussion. The HC scam, if it is allowed to continue, will kill people that could have lived because of the eventual rationing of care and suppression of medical innovation. It will not save people who would have died otherwise.

    Potentially killing innocent American citizens has not paralyzed those passing the HC scam.

    Good men died at Valley Forge, Breeds Hill, Concord, and even at outstanding victories such as Trenton (men froze to death crossing the Delaware). Because of this, most certainly women and children died and/or suffered due to the absence of these men, never mind the direct effects of battles, pillaging and arson by foreign troops.

    Today is not a dark day. The dark days will begin when the unsustainable nature of this monstrosity begins to collapse our country. Those responsible will go into overdrive in an attempt to misdirect the rising anger.

    They are now, and will then, depend on your paralysis.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  140. “We can still tackle big things.”

    Don’t bother on my account.

    Ag80 (f67beb)

  141. Benishek’s facebook friends list is up over 10,000 now.

    PatAZ (9d1bb3)

  142. My 80-year old mother told me a couple days back “I never dreamed the day would come I would think of the US government as my enemy”. The day is here.

    I wonder when they will be canceling her Medicare Advantage policy.

    If there is even a way to do civil disobedience I don’t know it, at least not yet. I haven’t the faintest idea how it will affect our family’s insurance, or job, or pension, or current medical arrangements. What an arrogant and egotistical bunch our gov. is – I’m angry and depressed now, but tomorrow I’ll get busy.

    FYI, asked 2 family doctors how they would deal with it; 1 said he would retire, the other said she would probably return to her home in the Philippines to practice medicine.

    jodetoad (7720fb)

  143. Forgive me if this isn’t entirely appropriate, but Benishek now has a site accepting PayPal donations. Sure PayPal gets a cut, but it gets the money to Mr. Benishek’s campaign immediately so he can start the process of sending Stupak into retirement.

    JVW (fd30ab)

  144. Just remember what happened, vote accordingly, and tell your friends. With Pelosi’s large majority, she only barely eked out passage. A new Congress and eventually, a new president, may yet see things differently.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  145. We have gone from patriots pledging Their Lives, Their Honor, and Their Fortunes to this nation, to the despicable crowd we now have in the halls of Congress and the White House.

    As they paraded before the cameras to claim that this law will save trillions of dollars, I wonder how many would be willing to pledge their fortunes on that – sign an irrevocable agreement to donate all their family assets to the Treasury if their grandiose promises prove false. They have no right to darken the formerly hallowed halls of Congress and claim obedience to the Constitution and a government of, by and for the people.

    in_awe (44fed5)

  146. Bradley:

    Just remember what happened, vote accordingly, and tell your friends. With Pelosi’s large majority, she only barely eked out passage. A new Congress and eventually, a new president, may yet see things differently.

    Good advice. And someday we need to revamp our education system that protects students from the consequences of their decisions and makes it easier for them to believe these promises.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  147. Blood from those you like as well as from those who you do not.

    i served with plenty of people who died for nothing more than having gone to drill weekend or annual training or just routine training activities on active duty.

    if you want blood, you’ve got it.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  148. As they paraded before the cameras to claim that this law will save trillions of dollars, I wonder how many would be willing to pledge their fortunes on that – sign an irrevocable agreement to donate all their family assets to the Treasury if their grandiose promises prove false.

    Heck, I would settle for them pledging their Congressional pensions should ObamaCare be far more expensive than promised.

    JVW (fd30ab)

  149. nicely said Mr. Ag80 person

    happyfeet (71f6cb)

  150. They are now, and will then, depend on your paralysis.

    Comment by Apogee — 3/21/2010 @ 9:01 pm

    ya wanna try making sense?

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  151. But this wasn’t about that at all. This was about finally bringing a great people to its knees for nothing more than a couple of pieces of silver and the power to command those who disagree.

    they only have that power if you grant it to them. if you refuse, the only power they have is to kill you, and that’s what they’re planning on doing anyway.

    Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  152. in_awe wrote:

    As they paraded before the cameras to claim that this law will save trillions of dollars, I wonder how many would be willing to pledge their fortunes on that – sign an irrevocable agreement to donate all their family assets to the Treasury if their grandiose promises prove false.

    No, they pledged to sacrifice your fortune, not theirs.

    The pissed off Dana (474dfc)

  153. Somehow there’s just so much hypocrisy in the fact that our friends on the left, the ones who so loudly scream about the right to privacy when it comes to abortion, are so willing to throw away that right to privacy by letting ObamaCare use the Infernal revenue Service as the enforcement agency for this bill.

    The Dana who thinks that irony is just so ironic (474dfc)

  154. well, i’ve fooled them: i have no fortune, and, in this economy, i won’t ever get one, so there!

    “Win” or “Fail”?

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  155. they love taxes more than they do privacy….

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  156. The problems of this country are systemic, not ideological,

    No. They’re ideological. The country got along just fine and was the envy of the world well before Communists started trying to cover their asses with weak lines like “the problems of this country are systemic, not ideological.”

    Statism is an ideology, not a system.

    skwiself (b69230)

  157. skwiself, maybe when they started up they were lying, but if our system is one of entitlements and ignoring absolutely insane spending, that’s part of the problem. And yeah, you could say that’s an ideological problem at root. But even if you managed to elect a 535 Reagens to Capital Hill and one more to the White House, they have to deal with a system that is broken and unwieldly, and a nation that has come to expect too much out of it (and an MSM and educator union that will cement this expectation for a long time).

    Anyway, I’m just annoyed at the idea that the (Wickard) Commerce Clause somehow trumps my 4th Amendment search rights or 5th amendment self incrimination rights. I do not want the IRS or anyone else to know what kind of insurance I carry. It’s my business if I want to spend a ton on insurance to prolong my life or (more accurately) control financial risks. If I simply say “I choose not to disclose this information” and not carry the right kind of insurance, How Dare They come after me!

    This doesn’t actually change anything in the health care profession except for scare docs and new drugs away. At the end of the day, it’s just another tax. I wish they’d have been honest and just passed a straight up tax.

    I bought Cigna, Aetna, and United Health in November, under the wise thought that whoever a new Chicago president’s biggest donor is probably will become damn rich. One rare occasion where I called it right. This bill is going to send those values through the roof. I don’t see how that can last, though, so I’m going to take that money and buy a patio.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  158. redc1c4 10:54pm – “ya wanna try making sense?”

    Sure – In short, the corrupt people in our government, along with their enablers are attempting to take over every facet of our lives.

    They do so because they believe we will do nothing. (Hence, our ‘paralysis’) In fact, they count on us to play by their rules.

    We have a choice as a country. Wait until this unsustainable ponzi scheme collapses, or do something about it.

    I’m not against it, but I just want people to think about what the reality is when they talk ‘revolution’. Every person who opposes this corruption needs to assess what they are and are not capable of doing.

    Without a concise goal, any course of action will be far more difficult.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  159. Apogee, I really do understand. Really.

    Last night I recruited my nephew to help me boot Steny Hoyer out of his seat in Maryland. That will be difficult. Charles Lollar is running against him, but in Maryland, black Republicans are viewed not just as the enemy, but as race traitors. It will be a long hard slog, but I mean to do it if I can. I’ll drag every person I can to to events to meet him. I will spend my money and sweat to get these fools voted out.

    Vivian Louise (643333)

  160. Amen, Apogee.

    We get the government we deserve.

    Unless they pull some madness like Amnesty before November, to cover their electoral needs, the USA doesn’t get much excuse if it can’t elect a supermajority in both houses to undo this legislation (I realize this is extremely unlikely). The spending is beyond the point where we can return to sustainability without real hardship, and the intrusion is insane.

    I’m pretty damn sure John Adams and Thomas Jefferson didn’t think the federal government has a right to demand I tell them which health insurance policy I have, so they can punish me if it isn’t approved.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  161. [...] to the “Black Plague,” and the online reaction was somehow even more unhinged. It was “RIP USA,” because with the vote, America would become “occupied by a hostile [...]

    LT Saloon |  Fox News, Health Care, and the Right-Wing Nervous Breakdown (0b3def)

  162. [...] to the “Black Plague,” and the online reaction was somehow even more unhinged. It was “RIP USA,” because with the vote, America would become “occupied by a hostile [...]

    Fox News, Health Care, and the Right-Wing Nervous Breakdown « Coreys Views (5c37f7)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5868 secs.