Patterico's Pontifications

11/27/2009

“Appalling” Health Care at British NHS Hospitals

Filed under: Health Care — DRJ @ 4:21 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

John H. Hinderaker at Powerline has a British government health care headline ObamaCare advocates should think long and hard about:

“Hundreds of patients died needlessly at NHS hospital due to appalling care.”

The headline is from The Telegraph while the Sun’s headline is even more disturbing: “71 dead at filthy hospital.” Hinderaker adds the “third world” conditions at two of the British government hospitals were reported as early as 2001 but never corrected.

— DRJ

47 Responses to ““Appalling” Health Care at British NHS Hospitals”

  1. Government officials are not accountable. Everyone knows that. In fact, they are counting on it for the rationing in the Obama reform bills.

    Mike K (addb13)

  2. And of course, the politicians and bureaucrats creating those conditions don’t go to those hospitals. So why shouldn’t they do what they are doing? It doesn’t touch them personally.

    Eric Blair (d5235f)

  3. But, but, Paul Krugman said these sort of things never happen when the system, and the hospitals, are run by the government.
    It must not be the Great Britain that he knows.

    AD - RtR/OS! (5fb16f)

  4. But Obama’s the one, if he does it, things will be different…

    that’s the kind of reasoning that keeps one in an abusive relationship.

    MD in Philly (227f9c)

  5. an abusive relationship….
    Perhaps we can get a restraining order?

    AD - RtR/OS! (5fb16f)

  6. US National Health Care = tricare for the masses

    Ask a retired mil member what they think of tricare but stand back a few feet!

    voiceofreason2 (de717e)

  7. The Pentagon, and Congress, have broke so many promises made to service members, it is easier to list those that they have kept.

    AD - RtR/OS! (5fb16f)

  8. It will doubtlessly be written off as anecdotal.

    I’m always curious to know how many anecdotes equals one piece of hard evidence that demands full attention be paid to it?

    Dana (e9ba20)

  9. Just look at the VA Hospital system or the King Drew Medical System. That’s what Obamacare will giv us.

    Patricia (b05e7f)

  10. Anecdotes become pretty fair evidence when people die!

    AD - RtR/OS! (5fb16f)

  11. King-Drew was a unique situation as it was, from the first day, a creature of the black political machine in Los Angeles that gave us Maxine Waters and is the reason why there is no NFL team in LA.

    Mike K (addb13)

  12. scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=deaths-from-avoidable-medical-error-2009-08-10
    “Deaths from avoidable medical error more than double in past decade, investigation shows”
    THAT’S 200,000 A YEAR IN THE US

    If you want a real liberal’s position on Obamacare, here it is:

    Since Orszag asked, “What specifically else would you do?” I’ll give him 13 very specific proven solutions:

    A minimum medical loss ratio for insurance companies mandating that they spend at least 90 cents of every dollar they take in as premiums on health care. This is based on the crazy idea that health insurance should insure people’s health instead of corporate profits.
    Turn all health insurances companies into non-profits. Most countries that are not single payer (Switzerland, Germany, Belgium) require all basic health insurance plans to be non-profits.
    On the new exchanges, create a much stronger risk adjustment mechanism, like in the Netherlands, to encourage competition on quality and cost effectiveness, instead of the cherry picking of healthy customers.
    Allow undocumented immigrants to buy health insurance on the new exchange with their own money. It will increase the size of the risk pool and reduce the cost of uncompensated care in this country.
    On the new exchanges, use more tightly defined benefit packages, and define plan levels based on deductible and copay size, instead of actuarial value. This will simplify comparison shopping and encourage the selection of more cost-effective HMO’s, instead of PPO’s
    Allow for drug re-importation. People in every other first world country pay much less for the same prescription drugs. Let Americans buy these cheaper drugs from Canada or Europe.
    Allow Medicare to directly negotiate lower drug prices. Medicare Part D was one of the biggest corporate giveaways in American history. Allow Medicare to use its size (as the VA system does) to directly negotiate for lower drug prices for seniors.
    Eliminate direct-to-consumer drug advertising. It only increases the unnecessary use of medicine.
    Follow the FTC recommendation by providing shorter exclusivity periods for biosimilars. The current bills create an extremely long 12-year exclusivity period. Going with the FTC recommendations will increase the availability of much cheaper generic versions of life saving biologics.
    Create a robust public option that can use Medicare rates and Medicare’s provider network.
    Create a single provider reimbursement negotiator like basically every other industrialized nation. The lack of this is the single biggest reason why, as a nation, we pay several times what other countries do for the same procedure.
    Create a fully integrated, government-run health care HMO, based on the VA health care system, which would be an insurance option for all Americans.
    Finally, adopt a Medicare-for-all single-payer system for everyone in the country.

    bored again (d80b5a)

  13. Wow, Dr. K. You have sure been argued into submission by one of those early-morning-still-drunk Wall O’ Posts.

    I think that the “cut and paste” keys are a useful servant, but a terrifying master.

    Eric Blair (d5235f)

  14. Surely “cut and paste” walls-o-text fall outside the “fair use” portion of copyright law…

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  15. I think we are lucky the fellow could find the correct keys, John. I suspect that Friday night ran late, if you know what I mean.

    Eric Blair (d5235f)

  16. Don’t be too hard on him, after all, sobriety is overrated, as is integrity and all those other old-fashioned principles.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  17. Not to be contrarian, but…
    As a Life Member of the NRA, and someone who believes that the 2nd Amendment really means something, I still have heartburn over the medical associations who jump on the gun-control band-wagon over shooting deaths when “avoidable medical errors” result in the deaths of 100,000+ people every year, far surpassing the numbers of deliberate and accidental shooting deaths.
    Something about “glass houses” I suppose.
    But, as to the current subject, “avoidable medical errors” will only get worse under a “National Health Scheme”.

    AD - RtR/OS! (764e2c)

  18. boring again wants insurance companies to be non-profit. I wonder how he would like it if I decided that he should be non-profit in his chosen enterprise?

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  19. Or, non-breathing!

    AD - RtR/OS! (764e2c)

  20. Hopefully, AD, he will figure out that you’re referring to ‘Death Panels’. You never know with this guy.

    Icy Texan (94c128)

  21. The British for some incomprehensible reason may stand for this; Americans won’t.

    chaos (9c54c6)

  22. And if you read that Scientific American link you find that people aren’t dying because of insurance companies charging too much money; they’re dying because the doctors who are most definitely getting paid for their work are making mistakes and not properly preventing infection, and because of badly designed “clunky” equipment. Obamacare wouldn’t change any of that.

    chaos (9c54c6)

  23. My grandaughter is going to school in London and 3 weeks ago, she was suddenly in severe abdominal pain. Her roommate called an ambulance (which took 30 minutes to arrive) and then once at the ER, she laid on the guerny for 5 hours in pain and vomiting before anyone even looked at her. Diagnosis – ruptured ovarian cyst. The pain is being managed and one week from today, she comes home to have the situation handled. Is this what we have to look forward to?

    jwarner (0a2a75)

  24. Over at Instapundit there is an entry re privatization of the Brit NHS.
    As we become more like them, they become more like us…
    the Cognitive Dissonance must be must be enough to be mind-blowing?

    AD - RtR/OS! (764e2c)

  25. jwarner, it makes me shudder to think that could become routine here. I wish your granddaughter well.

    Anecdotes become pretty fair evidence when people die!

    With this WH, they’ll label any deaths as anomalies, and then look the other way.

    Dana (e9ba20)

  26. Medical anomalies….
    John Grisham, meet Tom Clancy!

    AD - RtR/OS! (764e2c)

  27. “As a Life Member of the NRA, and someone who believes that the 2nd Amendment really means something,”

    The right to bear a rocket launcher on my shoulder when going out for a pack of cigarettes. Some of you may be in favor of that. “Arms” logically means weapons not guns. Grenades are “arms.” “Bear” to be old fashioned about it means carry. so maybe that doesn’t include a tank or a something bigger. But maybe it does.

    “boring again wants insurance companies to be non-profit.” Just like Switzerland, Germany, and Belgium? Sure.
    Or you could look at Japan.
    Among economically advanced countries, we’re the one most likely to kill granny. All in the name of freedom.

    bored again (d80b5a)

  28. Excerpt from an intelligent young woman:

    Ah yes the common blunder of using the “promote the general welfare” clause of the constitution to prove that it is the government’s responsibility to provide everything for its people. “

    Notice it says promote, not provide. Also if you’ll look at this quote from James Madison (the “Father of the Constitution” and main author of it) you’ll see the founders had a feeling it would be taken out of context.

    “With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.”

    Sounds to me like Mr. Madison knew what was going to happen today, and warned us. And if you’d really like some proof that a government run healthcare plan is a poor idea you can first of all look to Canada or Europe, or hey, here is a crazy idea check out some of the stuff included in the one the house passed last night.

    And on the 2nd Amendment, try reading the Federalist Papers, or at least read some Jefferson.

    Or you could refuse to let them pesky facts get in the way of your inebriation.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  29. It’s more of a hangover by now, John. But no worries: he’ll be pounding them down and sparking up soon. Classes don’t begin until Monday!

    Eric Blair (4c5397)

  30. “And on the 2nd Amendment, try reading the Federalist Papers, or at least read some Jefferson.”

    Grenades and a rocket launcher. One the street. By a schoolyard.
    “Shall not be infringed” means just that.
    And aside from the implication that Obama is Blue, Black, and Liberal” Your “intelligent young woman” seems to be opposed to Medicare and Social Security, never mind unemployment benefits. But she must be pro union since that’s free association. Workers vs Capital, and keep the Gubmint out of it.
    Let’s have free-for-all, just like god intended.

    bored again (d80b5a)

  31. Well, at least we know what boring again has been up to tonight.

    And the only response?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKYHZCkcec

    Eric Blair (bc43a4)

  32. […] Britain tired “universal coverage” and they are reaping what they sowed: Lower standards, “Poor nursing care, filthy wards and lack of […]

    They want to believe « Chockblock’s blog (8246d7)

  33. I’m opposed to Medicare, Medicaid, SocSec, SCHIP (slant-rhymes with what it is), ObamaCare on constitutional grounds. So were the Founding Fathers, so was Davy Crockett (and I used an extra “e” in his name in my articles). But, Blood Alcohol Content, your own words prove you’re against the Constitution and the Declaration.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  34. And, EB, I think the dude on the u2b was talking too fast.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  35. John, you presume “boring again” has actually read any of those things.

    He doesn’t need to: he watches Jon Stewart.

    While stoned.

    Eric Blair (bc43a4)

  36. “I’m opposed to Medicare, Medicaid, SocSec, SCHIP (slant-rhymes with what it is), ObamaCare on constitutional grounds”

    If you want to pretend to be an intellectual, here’s where to start.
    http://www.pennumbra.com/debates/debate.php?did=23

    But I think you’re out of your league.

    bored again (d80b5a)

  37. Blood Alcohol Content, where does the Constitution permit all that junk? And if you even consider “promote the general welfare” you already had an intelligent young woman blast that out of the water, using the Father of the Constitution’s own words.

    So, where is all that junk permitted?

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  38. Speaking of pretending to be an intellectual:

    “…But I think you’re out of your league…”

    Wow. We were sure skooled by Bong Boy, John.

    I am so…chastened. Aren’t you?

    Eric Blair (bc43a4)

  39. I dunno, EB, he used too many big words.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  40. Maybe I should’ve given Blood Alcohol Content a HT for this.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  41. Oh, OT but interesting. I have the Constitution online in my sidebar. And that site has monthly polling. It’s very unscientific but it sheds some insight into the thoughts of the people who actually go there to read the Constitution.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  42. Grenades and a rocket launcher. One the street. By a schoolyard.
    “Shall not be infringed” means just that.

    No, it doesn’t. Grenades and rocket launchers are ordnance, not arms. There’s no right to keep and bear ordnance.

    Some chump (8087d5)

  43. #27 – boring again
    “Arms” logically means weapons not guns.
    — Definitions: Arms – a weapon; Gun – any WEAPON with a metal tube from which a projectile is discharged by the force of an explosive; Weapon – any instrument used to injure or kill. Sorry, buddy. Despite your loopy lefty logic, guns are weapons — and that makes them “arms”.

    Among economically advanced countries, we’re the one most likely to kill granny. All in the name of freedom.
    — The gov’t, or the people, as a result of their lack of caring are ‘killing granny’? Please, dude. At some point in your life give Personal Responsibility a try. Your Bill Maher inspired the-gov’t-HAS-to-step-in-to-help-those-too-stupid-to-help-themselves rhetoric is right out of the Marx playbook.

    Icy Texan (c45d79)

  44. An aside since it’s been brought up, maybe discussed at another time.

    I agree with the idea that the 2nd amendment has to do with individuals having the right to bear arms to protect themselves, including from tyranny from their own government. At the time, other than guns what were there, cannons?

    This is a serious question. I’ve wondered how one decides where the line is in 2009, as there is such a big gap in what the ngovernment has and what the typical individual has.

    MD in Philly (227f9c)

  45. For me, personally, I’m fine with private civilians owning SAWs and bloopers, since I agree with MD in Philly about the reasoning for the 2nd Amendment.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  46. At the time…
    well, there were edged weapons, and they are still carried into battle by modern soldiers.

    And, for the inebriated one, the current argument as to the constitution of “arms” is whether or not that includes “crew-served” weapons, though the private possession of tanks and artillery does exist today (but you have to have an ATF Destructive Device tax-stamp). In the early years of the Republic, is was not uncommon for commercial vessels to sport on-deck arms (light cannon) for repelling the occassional pirate. I have even seen a large privately-owned sailing yacht from the early 20th-Century (still exists today – Thank you, Mr. Herrshoff) that when examining the details of the foredeck construction from below, you could find what appears to be the mounting holes and re-inforcement plate for a 3″ deck gun. This vessel was world renowned for her cruises into exotic and remote areas for her wealthy American owner.

    The disarming of America is a recent phenomanon grounded in the National Firearms Act of 1934, which resulted from the complete corruption of police forces by the bootleggers, and their unwillingness to protect the innocent in the bootlegger wars.

    AD - RtR/OS! (27348e)


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