Patterico's Pontifications

9/21/2008

Potential Bombshell: Was Obama’s Chief Media Strategist David Axelrod Behind an Astroturfing Campaign to Promote a False YouTube Smear Against Sarah Palin?

Filed under: 2008 Election,General — Patterico @ 9:28 pm

Rusty Shackleford at the Jawa Report has done a bang-up job tying Obama’s chief media strategist David Axelrod to a smear of Sarah Palin.

Rusty painstakingly documents a trail of evidence that ties a professional PR firm to a supposedly amateur YouTube smear against Palin. And it turns out that the firm and other people involved in the project have ties to Axelrod.

If you were a fan of my posts outing the sock-puppeting of Michael Hiltzik and Glenn Greenwald — posts that whack the subject across the head repeatedly with evidence and leave you shaking your head and chuckling — then you’re going to love Rusty’s post. Here is the key evidence:

* Evidence suggests that a YouTube video with false claims about Palin was uploaded and promoted by members of a professional PR firm.

* The family that runs the PR firm has extensive ties to the Democratic Party, the netroots, and are staunch Obama supporters.

* Evidence suggests that the firm engaged in a concerted effort to distribute the video in such a way that it would appear to have gone viral on its own. Yet this effort took place on company time.

* Evidence suggests that these distribution efforts included actions by at least one employee of the firm who is unconnected with the family running the company.

* The voice-over artist used in this supposedly amateur video is a professional.

* This same voice-over artist has worked extensively with David Axelrod’s firm, which has a history of engaging in phony grassroots efforts, otherwise known as “astroturfing.”

* David Axelrod is Barack Obama’s chief media strategist.

* The same voice-over artist has worked directly for the Barack Obama campaign.

[UPDATE: One more fact that probably should have been added: a senior Obama advisor is one of barely over two dozen Facebook contacts for the alleged uploader. Many of the other contacts are his family members.]

Some of the most convincing evidence is material that you can hear with your own ears. Play this video and tell me whether the voice-over artist is the same throughout.

I listened to it, and the answer is clear: yes it is.

Read Rusty’s post to see why this matters.

If Big Media doesn’t pick up on this story, it will confirm every suspicion we have ever had about their bias.

Go and read it now.

UPDATE: I’m sure there’s nothing to any of this. That’s probably why the smear video in question has, all of a sudden, been taken down from YouTube — within an hour of Rusty’s post going up.

Consciousness of guilt?

117 Responses to “Potential Bombshell: Was Obama’s Chief Media Strategist David Axelrod Behind an Astroturfing Campaign to Promote a False YouTube Smear Against Sarah Palin?”

  1. I’ll add this, too; man, these guys are bad at covering their tracks.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  2. What’s Obama’s saying? Hide the hand that throws the rock?

    Rusty shows you the hand…we just don’t know who hired the hand that threw the rock.

    MartyH (928d75)

  3. If Big Media doesn’t pick up on this story, it will confirm every suspicion we have ever had about their bias.

    Hope I am wrong, but I would prepare to have your suspicions confirmed.

    JVW (6c4300)

  4. Mr. Frey, these ethical gnomes don’t need to be good, when The Narrative seems to be what most Democratic voters care about. What is upsetting to me is that so many Republicans were willing to sit out this election because they disagreed with McCain. I would like to believe the same about Democratic voters over Obama (especially the Hillary Clinton supporters), but I suspect I am wrong.

    “D” over “R,” uber alles.

    I get pro-Obama “talking points” e-mails from friends of mine daily. Clearly, they are just broadcasting a message they received to their address book. My friends aren’t commenting on the cut and paste job they are forwarding along, and most of those cut and past jobs contain “talking points” that have been proven to be inaccurate, even in the MSM.

    But The Narrative motors on. I hope that Dr. Shackleford’s research will get much media play. But I doubt it will, sadly.

    Eric Blair (2708f4)

  5. Fortunately, this smear will probably just reenforce the devotion of Obama voters. The story has been debunked and I think the public has been inoculated. Still, it is good work to expose this.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  6. Patterico – I read it based on a tip at another blog. It was an awesome job on the Jawa’s part, obviously toned down from what it could be due to the speculative nature of some of the claims. Read between the lines and you understand it perfectly. If it were on a lefty blog it would be considered the gold standard of proof.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  7. What an amazing piece of work at Jawa. Unbelievable. I hope they get this out to those in the media who are unafraid to pursue it and push it to the public until it sinks in. Of course the devotees of O won’t care but the undecided are still out there…

    Dana (4d3ea0)

  8. patterico…

    Just posted this link over at jawa…maybe worth looking into, since they are “pros” in helping out with elections:

    http://www.wmcampaigns.com/homepage.htm

    fmfnavydoc (0dd45c)

  9. Kudos to all involved, though I share the skepticism that anyone in the MSM will follow up on it.

    Karl (1b4668)

  10. Hat’s off to Rusty, he’s done a good job tying together all the info. As I read through his write-up, I kept wondering one question. Why would these presumably intelligent professionals use parts of their real names in posting the videos and commenting? Hubris? Brain fart? Sheer laziness? Doesn’t make much sense.

    Jeff C. (5f0e11)

  11. Great work from Jawa. I bet the media that does circulate it will make up for the MSM bias. Really impressive investigative piece.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  12. Excellent work by Rusty and company!

    At this point, we must all post, link and forward that research piece. The more voices the better.

    Obama has been ratcheting up his Daley machine background and we either counter it or get run over by it.

    Darleen (187edc)

  13. smarter people than I at Ace’s site are noting that this advertisement, combined with the Obama supporting rhetoric in the comments on youtube, appear to be an in-kind contribution to the Obama campaign. And if they are right, the responsdant to an FEC complaint would have to explain why this isn’t an in-kind contribution (such as if Obama’s campaign paid for the ad).

    I think the American people will be very irritated to learn that the Palin smears actually came from Axelrod as his campaign pretended to denounce these very ads.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  14. Why would the MSM bother biting on this?

    All Obama has to do is deny that his campaign ordered or paid for the ad. We have no way of proving either of those.

    For all we know, this PR firm (which gave heavily to Obama) wanted to make an “in-kind donation” of the sort protected by the First Amendment.

    You can’t prove that they got any info from their ads from Obama’s campaign–in fact, most of the content of the ads were just fake rumors floating around on DU and DKos.

    If Sen. Obama uses the same voice-over artist again to cut a new official Obama ad, you could argue that he broke his pledge (again) to disassociate from people spreading smears about Gov. Palin.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  15. I concur in the praise for Rusty Shackleford. I also want to point out the excellent contribution from our host in writing the bullet points used here and at the Jawa Report.

    DRJ (0754ed)

  16. Obama’s superior judgment has produced yet another close associate that needs to be thrown under the bus.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  17. DRJ,

    That was done in a hurry, so I hope anyone dissatisfied with it will cut me some slack. I asked for a sneak preview, which I got shortly before it went up, and I thought the post might benefit from a summary of the evidence up front.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  18. Good work P, and good work with identifying one of the first potential paid astroturfers on the story within minutes.

    Strange how a concerned citizen could show up within minutes of a late night Sunday story.

    observer (322c1e)

  19. fmfnavydoc,

    Winner & Mandabach was behind the Missouri stem cell research campaign that featured Michael J. Fox, as well as the California initiatives “No on 90″ and “Yes on 84.” I think Paul Mandabach is the Mandabach in W&M and he may be married to Caryn Mandabach, formerly of Carsey-Werner-Mandabach. Carsey-Werner were active media supporters of the Clintons and C-W-M reportedly was a $1M donor to the Kerry campaign.

    DRJ (0754ed)

  20. I remember this-I was stationed at Great Lakes in’04 when it went down…

    When Obama ran for the Senate in ’04, he faced Jack Ryan – The Chicago Trib and an ABC station pushed for the custody records (which were sealed in CA) to be opened, and they were, which resulted in Ryan pulling out of the Senate race (they revealed issues that Ryan and his ex – actress Jeri Ryan – had during their marriage). Questions were raised about who really pushed the Trib and the ABC station to open the records…care to guess who use to work for the Trib before helping the One with is campaign…David Axelrod.

    My best guess…Axelrod’s fingerprints are all over this astroturfing…

    fmfnavydoc (0dd45c)

  21. Of course, it’s pure coincidence that the smear video is now disappearing from YouTube…

    Karl (1b4668)

  22. DRJ,

    link to Paul Mandabach…he’s a partner in W&M since 2003…

    Paul Mandabach link

    fmfnavydoc (0dd45c)

  23. That was done in a hurry, so I hope anyone dissatisfied with it will cut me some slack. I asked for a sneak preview, which I got shortly before it went up, and I thought the post might benefit from a summary of the evidence up front.

    My only suggestion would be to put the names of the Winners (how perfect!) somewhere within the first 500 words.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  24. I’d say that anyone who paid for the video wasted his money.

    Are the voices the same? I’m not sure — I heard some differences (the “viral” voice was raspier and drew out the vowels more). In any event, voice talents can have multiple clients.

    At this point, there is nothing in the way of evidence to tie the video to either Axelrod or the Obama campaign. “Bombshell” status seems very far off.

    One point seems real enough, however — the shabby political ethics of the Daily Kos poster cited by Shackleford. Too many Kos posters think and talk that way and they do more harm than good, at least in the eyes of this Obama supporter.

    I like to think that most people on both sides of the political divide don’t buy the view that you have to fight dirty to win.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  25. If you Google News Axelrod and sort by date, Jawa’s report comes up as the fourth link.

    So he has search engine smarts too.

    Ozwitch (d0afc9)

  26. Wikipedia credits Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen with first using the term astroturfing and states that “this practice is specifically prohibited by the code of ethics of the Public Relations Society of America, the national association for members of the public relations profession in the United States.” Senator Bentsen died in 2006 but the Obama campaign lists Lloyd Bentsen (his grandson, perhaps?) as a payee in August/September 2008. I don’t think this means anything. I think it’s just an odd coincidence.

    DRJ (0754ed)

  27. Someone could just email political anncr. Donna Reed at Spotcomm(.com) and ask her.
    If someone’s voice is on an ad, it’s on an ad. Payment and client are obviously another matter.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  28. Does anyone doubt that the announcer is an AFTRA/SAG member? As far as I understand these things, he either accepted payment, which would be on record at the union, or, he violated the terms of his membership by giving a freebie without union authorization. The value of his services would probably also have to be disclosed as an “in kind,” contribution by the union if they do not sanction the announcer, would they not?

    The reason this will be swept under the sewer is that the debate is on Friday and the entirety of political reporting will revolve around this. Also, the bailout bill will dominate.

    Ed (f35a20)

  29. At this point, there is nothing in the way of evidence to tie the video to either Axelrod or the Obama campaign. “Bombshell” tus seems very far off.

    There’s a reason I said “potential.” It doesn’t smell good, though.

    Someone could just email political anncr. Donna Reed at Spotcomm(.com) and ask her.

    I did that, an hour ago.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  30. Mystery Swiner revealed to be Mr. E. S. Winner . . .

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  31. Karl – All four youtube videos have now disappeared and Axelrod’s wiki profile is being edited to remove references to astroturfing. Sheer coincidences I’m sure.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  32. After all, if concerned citizens really posted the videos to youtube, there wouldn’t be a reson to pull them down, would there? What’s that saying? It’s not the crime, it’s the cover up that gets you.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  33. Ed, the person many think did this advert (Anne Gartlan) is indeed an S.A.G. member.

    Tim Mcgarry, there is more than nothing tying this to Axelrod. It’s certainly not conclusive, but it’s easy to conclude that he probably has something to do with this. Why would anyone hire Axelrod if they didn’t want to astroturf? It’s what Axelrod does. Axelrod IS the Obama campaign. What Rusty did was ask some very compelling questions. We need to know more before we grab torches and pitchforks, but someone probably broke the law.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  34. We need to know more before we grab torches and pitchforks, but someone probably broke the law.

    Nothing wrong with keeping ’em handy.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  35. I updated the post to note one more important connection: a senior Obama advisor is one of the few Facebook contacts for the alleged uploader.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  36. What an outstanding job by the Jawa Report and Rusty.

    Of course the major media can hardly be expected to look into an organized smear by a major PR firm directed against Sarah Palin when they are fully engaged in researching her tanning bed.

    DaMav (e84050)

  37. Looks like ASK was signed on by the University of Chicago Medical Center for some “PR” work…

    WAPO Article September 3, 2008

    Care to guess who works at UofC Medical Center….Michelle Obama!

    fmfnavydoc (0dd45c)

  38. re Ed @ 11:45

    SAG and AFTRA announcers can work union and non-union jobs. The taboo against doing so existed through the early 90s. After dereg in ’96, many stations went non-union with cuts in pay, benefits and jobs. I would think that Obama would hire union, as would any major campaign right now. It makes the money trail especially interesting for this Palin hit piece. Soemone got paid and someone commissioned it.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  39. Excellent digging and work by Rusty. His dogged analysis goes a long way to show that the Dem grass roots are more astroturf than real grass.

    Peg C. (48175e)

  40. LBJ started all this when he offed JFK, right?!

    TC (f398ed)

  41. DRJ wrote: I think Paul Mandabach is the Mandabach in W&M and he may be married to Caryn Mandabach, formerly of Carsey-Werner-Mandabach. Carsey-Werner were active media supporters of the Clintons and C-W-M reportedly was a $1M donor to the Kerry campaign.

    I can’t find evidence the two are married (and I gotta go to bed), but it seems to be the case. Paul Mandabach is listed along with TV mogul Caryn in this Sarah Lawrence College event. Caryn & Paul’s return addresses on campaign donations are within blocks in Los Angeles (Caryn in Beverly Hills, Paul in Encino). As of 2004, Caryn was an investor in Oxygen Media along with Oprah Winfrey.

    FWIW: Tom Werner of Carsey-Werner-Mandabach is the former flame of … Katie Couric.

    L.N. Smithee (31ce8a)

  42. BTW – Magnificent job, Rusty! :)

    L.N. Smithee (31ce8a)

  43. The damage of this coordinated smear-job isn’t just the possible illegality or the link to Alexrod. The real damage results from the realization that it asks an embarrassing question – Why the need to astroturf, i.e. to manufacture ‘grassroots’?

    Three answers, none good:
    1) You have no real grassroots.

    2) You’re very frightened of Sarah Palin.

    3) Everything about Barack Obama is manufactured.

    Grassroots?
    Try “Blonde Roots”.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  44. Apogee – It also says something about the shiny new changey hopey one … It kind of shows that this whole post-partisan post-racial BS is just that, BS.

    JD (41e64f)

  45. That is not the Donna Reed I knew.

    But seriously, while this is some great investigative work, I don’t think there’s much there there. If the source of the video is what it certainly appears to be, there’s nothing that says these people can’t post stuff on You Tube because of their own personal worship of The Messiah. Unless and until it can be tied directly to the campaign or to Axelrod himself there’s no serious foul. That Axelrod knows the players proves nothing. I think the assumptions drawn are largely correct, but I don’t think that this is going to grow legs without proof. And there is no proof of Axelrod/O! campaign involvement.

    Pablo (99243e)

  46. And yes, if the shoe were on the other political foot, this would be thought of as a smoking gun. But it isn’t.

    Pablo (99243e)

  47. Pablo

    If this were just a single person then the attempt to scrub the internet within an hour of Rusty’s post wouldn’t have happened.

    The coverup confirms Rusty’s report.

    Darleen (187edc)

  48. But it doesn’t demonstrate campaign involvement, Darleen. What precludes the Winner family from creating and posting the vid of their own accord? What stops them from taking it down in an attempt to distance the family business from their shenanigans? This report embarrasses them, sure. It doesn’t convict them of anything, though.

    Again, I think Rusty is probably right, but so what? Just watching the vid tells me it’s dirty, immoral. But I’m not seeing where this lands on the campaign in any significant fashion.

    Maybe I’m missing something here, but I don’t see the smoking gun.

    Pablo (99243e)

  49. Where is the smear?
    For it not to be a smear, you have to accept these:
    — the Alaska Independence Party and its desire to secede from the U.S. is not bad or questionable.
    — Sarah Palin has no connection whatsoever to the AIP, which her welcoming video for the AIP convention and Todd Palin’s former membership in AIP seem to counter.

    Is it an attempt at smear when Patterico chooses to use Obama’s middle name and cutely do a strikethrough?

    Larry Reilly (d11f9a)

  50. Pablo,

    There is no smoking gun connection to Axelrod. But what do you think the chances are that he didn’t know about this?

    And why did they use such obvious pseudonyms? I think it’s because they wanted to be able to take credit for it, with important people.

    If this does nothing but shed a spotlight on astroturfing methods, it’s worth something. But I think it shows more than that.

    Patterico (3dca0c)

  51. LN,

    I don’t know if the Mandabachs are married now but I found a credible online reference that they are parents of the same 2 children. I chose not to link it because there’s no point involving children online, but you can find if you Google the Mandabachs by their first and last names.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  52. Larry,

    The ad explicitly says Palin was a member of the AIP. That is false, therefore it is a smear to attempt to discredit her using that made up “fact”.

    Further, the AIP does not and has not had secession as a part of its platform. That a prominent member of the party has espoused it does not make it the view of the party and the suggestion that AIP is anti-American or supported secession is also false, and therefore a smear. See their platform, item #1:

    To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.

    This really isn’t complicated, Larry.

    Pablo (99243e)

  53. Patterico,

    I don’t think it matters whether Axelrod knew about it unless it can be shown that he was responsible for it, and I doubt that’s going to happen. As for the Winners, I think you’re right, but the Jawa work on this could well get them the attention of the wrong important people, ones who will not look kindly on all of this.

    If this does nothing but shed a spotlight on astroturfing methods, it’s worth something.

    I agree. It may well be an effective shot across their bow.

    But I think it shows more than that.

    It’s cause for suspicion of more than that. With no proof, this won’t grow legs.

    Pablo (99243e)

  54. Strange name the Alaskan Independence Party chose for itself, considering it’s not about independence for Alaska, Pablo.

    Then again, here’s the first question on their FAQ page:

    Q: What is the Alaskan Independence Party?

    A: An Alaskan political party whose members advocate a range of solutions to the conflicts between federal and local authority; from advocacy for state’s rights, through a return to territorial status, all the way to complete independence and nationhood status for Alaska.

    That actually took less than 30 seconds for me to find, but you were probably too busy pimping for McCain/Palin to do too much research.

    And here’s a nice video from the head of the party talking about the goals of the party:
    From the video: “The first plank in our platform is [about] our vote to become a State.”

    Again, eliminating sovereign immunity, repealing public statutes, having a vote of whether Alaska should become a territory, remain a state, or become sovereign etc, these are just the views of any normal group of reactionary loons and no one should ever criticize Mr. Palin’s membership or the Governor’s sweet video message.

    It’s just not fair to criticize her for her “past associations.” Now, where did I put that Obama = Bill Ayers bumper sticker?

    timb (a83d56)

  55. And of course you also found evidence of the AIP planning and carrying out violent attacks against US Government property and employees, right timb?

    timb?

    Must be off looking for it.

    Don’t come back UNTIL you find it, okay buddy?

    Icy Truth (d55d4c)

  56. party whose members advocate a range of solutions

    Reading is fundamental, Timmah! Be fundamental, not just mental.

    OHNOES!! They want America to secede from America! Eleventy!!!

    Pablo (99243e)

  57. Larry O’Really –

    For it not to be a smear, you have to accept these:
    the Alaska Independence Party and its desire to secede from the U.S. is not bad or questionable.

    — The AIP can secede from the U.S. anytime it wants to do so.
    Oh, I see. You meant “its desire for Alaska to secede”; pity that you didn’t bother to write it that way . . . coherency and all. As for the group or its goals being bad or questionable, see the above response to timb. Unless they are advocating or engaging in armed insurrection, they are just another fringe political group receiving FAR MORE attention than they deserve.

    Sarah Palin has no connection whatsoever to the AIP, which her welcoming video for the AIP convention and Todd Palin’s former membership in AIP seem to counter.
    — So if the video mischaracterizes her relationship to the group, it doesn’t matter because she has some kind of connection to them? Like how all Catholic priests are guilty for the sins of the few who are molesters? Yet another lib attempt to subvert personal responsibility for guilt by association. She sent a welcoming video to their convention because: a) she wants their votes, and b) it’s part of her job to be the welcoming ambassador for her state; acting (on your part) as if she was welcoming the Klan or the American Nazi Party isn’t going to make it true. As for Todd Palin’s former membership, doesn’t someone usually become the “former member” of something because of a change of heart or a new way of thinking? or because the group changed in a way that s/he didn’t like?

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  58. FWIW: Tom Werner of Carsey-Werner-Mandabach is the former flame of … Katie Couric.

    …and, incidently, is the former owner of the San Diego Padres, and hired Roseanne to – memorably – sing screech the “Star Spangled Banner” on national TV!
    Douchebag!

    AIP…
    Isn’t this, pretty much, the equivalent of one or more parties in PR (connected to the Dems) who are constantly pressing for a referendum on whether or not PR should become a state, remain a commonwealth, or become independent?

    And, don’t forget the John Birchers.

    Another Drew (a81639)

  59. Interesting how you fail to point out what “lies” the offending video contains – you expend more energy objecting to the provenance of the video than to addressing its substance. Please – enlighten us with something meaningful on this, so we can know what the heck you’re talking about.

    Mark In Irvine (b16af5)

  60. For those wondering why people cannot “produce this kind of material on their own”, The election laws make it clear that a person can produce independent material on their own, but if it is done for profit, a client, in coordination with any campaign, etc, they must IDENTIFY themselves. This ad does not contain any identifier.

    The winner agency would have to show they used all unpaid resources, which is unlikely considering the multiple staffers involved in this production. (The professional voice is an example they did not.)

    Hence, this seems to be a clear and outrageous vioilation of election laws, regardless of whether this is considered a “smear” or not.

    Harry (7aa3e5)

  61. The winner agency would have to show they used all unpaid resources, which is unlikely considering the multiple staffers involved in this production. (The professional voice is an example they did not.)

    The burden of proof is the other way around, Harry.

    Pablo (99243e)

  62. Crooked Dems?

    Gee, I’ll notify the media, shall I?

    mojo (8096f2)

  63. Mark In Irvine —

    If you can’t figure out on your own what the smears are (you are the only one that used the word “lies”), then maybe you’re not quite ready to play in the big-boy sandbox.

    Icy Truth (b8f405)

  64. Sarah Palin’s husband was a AIP member for 7 years, until 2002. I like that video. I think I’ll send it to all my friends.

    markg8 (5ea1db)

  65. Why don’t you just tell your friends that Sarah Palin has been a Republican for 26 years, mark? Won’t that have more impact?

    Pablo (99243e)

  66. markg8 is amongst those who do not mind lies. along with timmah and Larry Reilly, it is not really good company.

    JD (41e64f)

  67. I would wager that Todd Palin, Alaska’s First Dude, is not the only Native American who harbors some thoughts about sovereignty for themselves and their people.
    But, it seems to be acceptable when it is espoused by Liberals/Radicals such as Russell Means.

    Another Drew (a81639)

  68. #64, Since when is it untoward for American citizens to organize for the redress of grievances? If some of the people of Alaska are convinced the Federal Government is acting in ways that unfairly infringe on their basic rights, they are fully entitled to the freedom of assembly, and to the right to express their grievances, wheather anyone else likes it or not.

    Moreover, if they want to break the ties which bind them to the lower 48, they have every right to work within the law for their own independence. That’s the American Way, and attempting to smear Palin’s husband for membership in a organization our Founding Fathers would recognize just isn’t the sort of thing patriotic Americans shold tolerate, you totalitarian pipsqueek.

    Ropelight (b9f273)

  69. If this is the standard, which Baracky has previously said is most certainly not the standard, then Michelle O is long overdue for some close scrutiny.

    JD (41e64f)

  70. This couldn’t be much worse than swift-boating someone, can it? The ‘liberal media’ aired those ads? Wake up people. Conservatives don’t have a monopoly on values and truth, they just pretend to… which is worse. Palin wants to sell her family values to a public when she was pregnant at her wedding and her daughter is going to be as well? Come on now, grow some sense people. Why are we buying our values from solicitors who couldn’t obviously don’t believe in the product they are hawking?

    AB (3d65f9)

  71. The moonbat Left can’t get over the last lost election when the Swifties told the truth about John Kerry’s phony servic record. It cost him the election and saved the USA from the grip of mindless nitwits like AB above. God Bless the Swift Boat Vets, they are the real American men here. I salute those brave sailors. Well done!

    Ropelight (b9f273)

  72. A-hole B-shitter wrote: The ‘liberal media’ aired those ads?
    — Nobody said that . . . except you.

    Palin wants to sell her family values to a public when she was pregnant at her wedding and her daughter is going to be as well?
    — And the evidence of her ‘selling her family values’ is WHAT?

    Icy Truth (31efee)

  73. Seriously Icy Truth? Conservatives are always selling their ‘pro-family’ stance. Don’t try to sell me anything else, because unlike Dubya around a cocaine dealer, I am not buying it. The liberal media has been implied if not overtly mentioned in around half of the comments up until now. So if all you’ve got for me is a not-so-clever acronym of my name then I guess you need to go back to the drawing board.

    AB (c313be)

  74. I was never going to vote for Hussein anyway. I never trusted him. Birds of a feather.

    alex (4cafa3)

  75. By the way… Icy Truth, since when do we need evidence on this comment board? There was no evidence in the actual story other than.. ‘Obama kind of knows x who knows y who once saw z at a sprinsteen concert, who then one time uploaded a video.’ Yeah, see if that one holds up in court.

    AB (c313be)

  76. AB, JAR, Harpy, timmah – This is a full on infestation.

    JD (41e64f)

  77. Ropelight is a moron. The swift boat story has been debunked. Even McCain called it ‘dishonest and dishonorable’ (see the end of the story for his quote). Evidence and facts just don’t matter when you’re a neo-con.

    AB (c313be)

  78. http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

    [Recovered from the filter @ 12:35 PM PST. — DRJ]

    AB (c313be)

  79. Which Swift Boat story was “debunked,” AB?

    – The most effective ad was the one that showed John Kerry himself speaking in Congress.
    – Kerry had to take back the ‘seared in his memory’ Christmas in Cambodia story.
    – He had to explain that he threw medals over the White House wall, while those same medals were still on his office wall….

    Anyway, carry on.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  80. But AB, we’re not talking about 2004, we’re talking about the discovery of a professionally produced smear campaign that contains lies directed at the Republican VP candidate who’s currently scaring the pants off the Democratic candidate for President and the entire DNC.

    We’re also talking about the fact that the minute an alert blogger started asking relevant questions regarding the origins of the video, all the related materials were scrubbed from the web in under 2 hours. That’s not the work of a kid with a laptop.

    And now you’re appearing from out of nowhere trying to distract from the story by hijacking the thread.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  81. Ha. Sarah Palin is going to get eaten alive when she goes up against Biden in a debate. Saying something needs “a-fixin’ and streamlined” loses its flavor over 2 hours. She doesn’t know a thing about foreign relations or economics or government for that matter.

    http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html

    AB (c313be)

  82. Here’s the conclusion of AB’s fack check link. Heh.

    At this point, 35 years later and half a world away, we see no way to resolve which of these versions of reality is closer to the truth.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  83. What I am saying is that we need to learn the lessons of 2004 and stop believing in quack-job journalism. There is not a widespread media conspiracy going on. If there is a legitimate story here it will be picked up on by legitimate news sources. Otherwise, it will stay where it is… a feeding frenzy for kids who needn’t any other evidence other than ‘Rush said…’ or ‘(fill in the blank-any fairy tale right wing journalist) said…’

    AB (c313be)

  84. Carlitos. Did you just pick out 4 words from an 8 page document? Did you read the rest of the story? Kids, kids, kids… back to the big boy table for me.

    AB (c313be)

  85. I’m curious, AB: Which website is the big boy table on the internet?

    DRJ (0754ed)

  86. The article does say that those appearing in the commercial were disputed, third-hand sources. I guess those details weren’t as important to Carlitos.

    AB (c313be)

  87. That factcheck link wasn’t there when I made my first post. Having clicked through, I think that quibbling about purple hearts is pretty sleazy.

    Which doesn’t change the legit 3 issues I raised, which other “swift boat” ads addressed. He brought that stuff on himself when he “reported for duty” at the convention. Fellow vets didn’t appreciate the hagiography.

    Quack job journalism? If blog are so disreputable, why are you here and not commenting on the New York Times’ site?

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  88. blogs

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  89. Honestly, I keep reading “legitimate story” and “legitimate news sources” and how we shouldn’t pay attention to quack jobs on the internet, and I just can’t stop laughing out loud. Here‘s a real journalist writing about Sarah Palin today.

    It cannot be true, they say. The universe must joking, would not dare dump such a homophobic, Creationist evangelical nutball on us, this anti-choice, God-pandering woman who’s the inverse of Hillary, this woman of deep inexperience who abhors birth control and supports abstinence education and shoots exhausted wolves from helicopters and hates polar bears and actually stands for everything progressive women have resented since the first pope Swift-Boated Eve.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  90. The gist of that article, Carlito, is that no woman who takes her vote seriously could possibly switch from Hillary to McCain/Palin. It doesn’t make sense. Palin stands for nothing that Hillary does, so unless you are voting strictly based on what kind of plumbing the candidate has then why switch?

    I will say that that particular article mostly relies on sensationalism, but no more so than the ridiculous article you so fervently support from the other side of the spectrum(see above).

    AB (c313be)

  91. Oh, right. Christmas in Cambodia… I forgot about that ‘charge’. He was on the border but not actually ‘in’ Cambodia. Now that is serious. Almost as serious as being in the National Guard and not showing up. Oops. Didn’t that happen?

    AB (c313be)

  92. AB 6:50pm – I will say that that particular article mostly relies on sensationalism,

    Yes, and so does a phony astroturf viral video concocted by a professional Democratic PR firm most likely at the direction of David Axelrod. A video so dangerous because of its connection to the Obama campaign that it was scrubbed immediately after the connections were made by an alert blogger.

    Yet the article carlitos quotes remains on the net for all to read. This is because the ‘gist’ of the article is to smear Palin.

    The only difference between the two is that someone was very afraid that the ties to Obama were exposed in the phony viral video.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  93. The MSM will never be neutral! At least that is what Rush Limbaugh tells me. I listen to him every day. We get our information straight from the most neutral and accurate source possible. That and Fox News, of course. Fair and balanced! I believe everything they tell me. I am a dittohead.

    Reaganfan313 (26b7ac)

  94. #92 Apogee

    A video so dangerous because of its connection to the Obama campaign that it was scrubbed immediately after the connections were made by an alert blogger.

    A video so dangerous they Ethan and Charles Winner, used their real names.

    D’uh.

    Look I’m not defending these numbnuts, who obviously sell their slimy services to anyone who needs a little media manipulation. But there’s no verifiable connection to the Obama campaign.

    I don’t see a campaign as disciplined and focused as Obama’s, being involved in something as silly as if Palin was a member of Alaska Independence Party or not.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  95. Disciplined and focused? LOL. This is the Obama who called Palin a pig. Where’s the discipline and focus?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  96. Peter 8:14pm – who obviously sell their slimy services to anyone who needs a little media manipulation.

    And who would that be?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  97. #94~

    as disciplined and focused as

    a beach ball in a hurricane.

    Try getting out more.

    EW1(SG) (f2aa26)

  98. AB, Not only is my reading comprehension about high-school level, but I also know how to use ‘apple key + find’ feature in safari – what “ridiculous article” above have I been “fervently supporting” in this topic? My first post replied to your non-specific “swift boat = lies” incinuation.

    carlitos (64fbf7)

  99. So they may(emphasis on may) have used the same voice over artist. So what. Don LaFontaine(God rest his soul) did thousands of movie trailers. So each is guilty by association?

    DS (740e69)

  100. #96 And who would that be?

    Utilities, oil companies and Indian gaming organizations. Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson, aren’t represented by Justyn Winner, but a film company, Zucker Productions is:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030201416.html

    Shackleford got that wrong. Read the disclaimer at the top of that WashPo.

    I suspect Jared Liu-Klein of Winner & Assoc. is working for Plame Wilson through Zucker Productions.

    At any rate, a letter from Liu-Klien doesn’t exactly equal a concerted media communication campaign, like those required by Oil Co.s with horrible records on the environment or Utilities with more money than God.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  101. DS 9:39pm – So each is guilty by association?
    No. Each is professionally produced. That’s the point.

    Peter 11:43pm – Nice try at distraction. Once again, who would benefit from a slimy negative media manipulation of Sarah Palin? The Obama campaign.

    Now, who would be damaged by an association with this ad?
    The Obama campaign is the only entity that would be damaged by this association, and is therefore the only party that would explain the hurried, stealth removal of the files from the net.
    As I said before, if it were a 527 or an individual who merely didn’t like Sarah Palin, there would be no need for removal. In fact, they would most likely boast of their act, and revel in the worship from Dkos and the rest.

    There was a video. It was professionally produced. There were supporting documents linking it to the Winner PR firm. We have the screenshots. They’ve now disappeared.

    No one’s claiming credit.

    Strange behavior for a group that talks endlessly of speaking ‘truth to power’.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  102. Let me guess: the main point being made by all of the Axlerod SP’s here tonight is that there’s no story here, move on, people, move on . . .

    But, if there were no story here, and I were an Axlerod SP, I think I’d more likely WANT this story all over the media tomorrow morning, just so’s I could shoot it down and make them look stoopid . . .

    bobby b (4baf73)

  103. AB –

    Conservatives are always selling their ‘pro-family’ stance.
    — Do you think she is anti-family? Should anyone be anti-family?

    Don’t try to sell me anything else, because unlike Dubya around a cocaine dealer, I am not buying it.
    — I’m not trying to convince you of a single thing. I challenged you to provide evidence to support your assertion that “Palin wants to sell her family values to [the] public”.

    The liberal media has been implied if not overtly mentioned in around half of the comments up until now. So if all you’ve got for me is a not-so-clever acronym of my name then I guess you need to go back to the drawing board.
    — What the hell does this have to do with my response to your post? Where does ANY reference to the media in the comments allege that “the ‘liberal media’ aired those ads”? Answer: it doesn’t. The references are expressions of pessimism that the MSM will follow-up on this story; not a single one of them makes the allegation you wrote.

    since when do we need evidence on this comment board?
    — You don’t. However, if you want to be taken seriously; if you want your statements to come off as knowledgeable, rather than sounding like non sequiters and ad hominem attacks; if you don’t want to look like someone who just makes shit up for the purpose of attacking the other side . . .

    There was no evidence in the actual story other than.. ‘Obama kind of knows x who knows y who once saw z at a sprinsteen concert, who then one time uploaded a video.’ Yeah, see if that one holds up in court.
    — That’s a judgment call, and suffice it to say that your judgment has been called into question.

    Icy Truth (171310)

  104. Icy Truth. My judgement has come into question because I disagree with you. Egocentrism wins again!

    Your pro-family/anti-family comment sets it up perfectly for me. The implication that Democrats are anti-family is rampant.
    In response to your liberal media comment: it has everything to do with this story. The liberal media is being blamed for not picking up this story (in the comments area… did you read those?). Give me a break… the liberal media? That has been disproven time and time again. The reason the media gets labeled liberal is because they don’t pick up on stupid, baseless stories like this. Then, people like you sit back and comment about how legit this 4th hand heresay story is and how you can’t believe the media is ignoring it.

    And by the way… Obama did not call Palin a pig. You guys are completely nuts and misinformed. I believe he was calling into question the practice of dressing up an old program in new clothes and selling it off as a new idea… lipstick on a pig is still a pig. Before you hear “Obama called Palin a pig! Obama called Palin a pig!” and ditto it on to your mindless friends, maybe you should check out the text or video for yourselves.

    AB (c313be)

  105. AB –

    My judgement has come into question because I disagree with you. Egocentrism wins again!
    — If you believe that your judgment is above being questioned, that’s an egocentric display on your part, not mine. The reason why your judgment is being called into question here is due to your dismissing out-of-hand the points of evidence listed by Patterico. Pulling an Officer Barbrady “nothing to see here, move along” doesn’t constitute refuting an allegation point-by-point.

    Your pro-family/anti-family comment sets it up perfectly for me.
    — Uh, is this where I point out that it was you that brought this up? My QUESTION was not a comment; it is a question.

    The implication that Democrats are anti-family is rampant.
    — I never said that. You wrote “Palin wants to sell her family values”. I’m still waiting for you to illustrate how she is doing that.

    In response to your liberal media comment: it has everything to do with this story. The liberal media is being blamed for not picking up this story (in the comments area… did you read those?).
    — Again, this was not a comment; it was a question . . . one that you have not answered. I did not ask you what it had to do with this story; I asked you what does it have to do with my response to you writing “The ‘liberal media’ aired those ads?” as if someone here had made that accusation — but no one did.

    Give me a break… the liberal media? That has been disproven time and time again.
    — AKA – not even once.

    The reason the media gets labeled liberal is because they don’t pick up on stupid, baseless stories like this.
    — Refer to every 4th or 5th article on this blog for rebuttal.

    Then, people like you sit back and comment about how legit this 4th hand heresay story is and how you can’t believe the media is ignoring it.
    — ‘People like me’? Stereotyping today, are we?

    Icy Truth (74c635)

  106. Look! Over there, something shiny !!! AB has to be JAR or jharpy’s cousin.

    JD (41e64f)

  107. I was having a dialogue with everyone on this board, Icy Truth… not just you. Read the story and all the comments. Your arguing style of ‘That is not what I said’ when just one or two comments before that you happened to state exactly what I was referring to has become tiresome. It’s like arguing with Hannibal Lector after he’s had a lobotomy. I’m done. Cheerio!

    AB (c313be)

  108. I have been a conservative my entire life but
    I am done with the Republican party.

    1. Make Government smaller

    They have made government bigger then it has ever been in the history of the United States.

    2. No Welfare

    They are now offering up 400 billion in corporate welfare to bailout rich CEO’s and the Dems are trying to stop the CEO bonuses!!

    I am done!!

    Time for this lifelong conservative
    to give the Democrats a chance and vote Democrat….at this point they reflect more of my views then the Republicans do.

    Dan Hodkins (e77756)

  109. So your logic is that they have betrayed their principles so now you will too? You’re going to vote Democrat because they are now more conservative than the Republicans? Either you are actually done with being a conservative or you are not being very truthful.

    Icy Truth (f6198c)

  110. It is a copy and paste Moby, Icy. That post has gone up in at least 2 threads now.

    JD (41e64f)

  111. Yeah, but if they know that someone is paying attention they sometimes come back and engage.

    Icy Truth (f6198c)

  112. Five days and counting…

    Still not the slightest acknowledgment by The Jawa Report that McCain has worked with Winner & Mandabach as evidenced in this Aug. 2003 Campaigns & Elections magazine article….

    http://tinyurl.com/4cq9rr

    Peter (e70d1c)

  113. Ok, Peter, can you show us the viral astroturf ad against Obama put out by W&M for “free”?

    They work with Exxon/Mobil as well as others. Their client list is only important when they engage in “free” political PR campaigns for one client on company time and then attempt to hide that fact later.

    5 days and counting, Peter. After admitting publicly of doing the ad ‘for free’, Mr. Winner hasn’t bothered to contact the Jawa report to find those nasty people who must have been to the site, and within 2 hours allegedly phoned his family and made threats. You do remember that was his ‘reason’ for pulling the ad late at night on a Sunday.

    You would think that Mr. Winner would care more about his family than this.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  114. Their client list is only important when they engage in “free” political PR campaigns for one client on company time and then attempt to hide that fact later.

    I thought it was about “following the money trial” to Axelrod.

    In which case I think “following the money trail” to McCain, and there’s hard proof (not speculation or conjecture) of a money trail from 2002, would be important as well, if even to refute its importance and strengthen the Obama-Axelrod-Astroturf smear…err…I mean in depth and ethical, and in no way vindictive and thuggish “investigation.”

    Mr. Winner hasn’t bothered to contact the Jawa report to find those nasty people who must have been to the site, and within 2 hours allegedly phoned his family and made threats. You do remember that was his ‘reason’ for pulling the ad late at night on a Sunday.

    What are you saying? Winner has to prove he’s getting threats so Shackleford stops making the guy the scapegoat for an unproven Obama viral ad smear?

    That’s just wrong. No matter how you cut it, that is wrong and I’d like to think you guys can see that. The Jawa Report’s rabidly anti-Muslim and anti-liberal readers are entirely capable of making harassing and threatening phone calls to an individual perceived as “Dr. Shackleford” has painted Winner and his family.

    You would think that Mr. Winner would care more about his family than this.

    Maybe he just wants to be left alone. And he has a right to ask that.

    Who the hell made “Dr. Rusty fu*kin Shackleford” judge jury and executioner?

    Like I said five days and counting….

    Peter (e70d1c)

  115. Seven days. In which our intrepid internet jihadist “investigator “Dr. Rusty Shackleford” further proves that he has absolutely zero regard fro the truth if it isn’t convenient to his extreme right-wing, Muslm-hating thug agenda.

    Still no mention of McCain’s connections to Winner & Mandabach and the very advantageous laws he helped to write for Indian Gaming until he threw them overboard for Vegas $$:

    New York Times Sunday, Sept. 28, 2008 Article.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  116. It seems Peter, that you have a tendency to call people liars who in fact are more knowledgable, and more honest, than yourself.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  117. Day eight.

    Peter (e70d1c)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5932 secs.