Patterico's Pontifications

7/7/2008

Your Assignment: Compile Obama’s Flip-Flops

Filed under: 2008 Election,War — Patterico @ 7:11 am

[This post will remain bumped to the top through Monday. New posts will appear below. -- Patterico]

I want you to help me compile a full list of Obama’s flip-flops.

Leave a comment fully documenting one or more flip-flops. Links are critical. For maximum usefulness, I would like to see the following for each flip-flop:

1) Obama’s original quote, with a link.

2) His later flip-flopping quote, also with a link.

Here’s an example of what I’m looking for:

Flip: Obama says the health exception for late-term abortions has to be a serious physical issue:

I have repeatedly said that I think it’s entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don’t think that ‘mental distress’ qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term.

Flop: the health exception can include non-physical issues like mental diseases:

My only point is that in an area like partial birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously . . . It can be defined through physical health. It can be defined by serious clinical mental health diseases.

Video proof of a flip-flop is even better. Link that if you have it. I know there are videos like that out there. I want to know about all of them.

Maximum participation, people! If you do this well, I can bring it all together in a single, massive post that documents all of Obama’s flip-flops. In that post, I’ll credit each person who first documents a particular flip-flop to my satisfaction.

Now start documenting!

307 Responses to “Your Assignment: Compile Obama’s Flip-Flops”

  1. Let’s get McCain’s flip flops up while were at it and see who wins first prize.

    [The rest of this comment is deleted. jharp has spammed this comment on my blog three times now. I am not going to let it derail this topic. The topic of this thread is Obama flip-flops. If you are completely fascinated with jharp's list of alleged McCain flip-flops, you may read it at this link, which is one of the two places he has already spammed it. However, I am not going to let this thread be about the validity of jharp's alleged McCain flip-flops. It is about compiling Obama's, and I'm not wading through reams of comments responding to the thread hijack to find what I'm looking for. Accordingly, I am hereby deleting every comment that responds to this one. If you want to debate the alleged McCain flip-flops, go to the above link and do it there. Not here.]

    jharp (00ec6a)

  2. Here’s one flip that you may have missed, concerning welfare (it comes from Brit Hume, who’s usually unassailable regarding sourcing):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY2wa_cDXjI

    Regarding FISA:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11349.html (note the line mentioning Obama’s vow to filibuster the bill if it ever came to a vote)

    Here’s a link that contains a vid of his flip regarding gun control:

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/obama-camp-disa.html (note the campaign’s attempt to spin his flip as an “inartful” statement).

    One question – when Obama’s thrown all of those formerly close associates of his under the bus (Reverend Wright, campaign advisors, Ayers, etc.), do they, in fact, count as “flips” as well?

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  3. Here is a lengthy article from a MSM source that is in the tank for Obama and there is nary of mention of, guess who ? His spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright !

    Down the memory hole.

    Mike K (b9ce3e)

  4. Obama v.Jan.2007:

    “We can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops: I don’t know any expert on the region or any military officer that I’ve spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.”

    Obama v.Jul.2007:

    “Here’s what we know. The surge has not worked. And they said today, ‘Well, even in September, we’re going to need more time.’ So we’re going to kick this can all the way down to the next president, under the president’s plan.”

    Obama v.Jan.2008:

    “I think the bar of success has become so low that we’ve lost perspective on what should be our long-term national interests.
    It was a mistake to go in from the start, and that’s why I opposed this war from the start. It has cost us upwards of $1 trillion. It may get close to $2 trillion. We have lost young men and women on the battlefield, and we have not made ourself safer as a consequence.

    Now, I had no doubt, and I said at the time when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence.

    But understand, we started in 2006 with intolerable levels of violence and a dysfunctional government. We saw a spike in the violence. The surge reduced that violence, and we now are, two years later, back where we started two years ago. We have gone full circle at enormous cost to the American people.”

    Elliott (0eb813)

  5. From this point forward I am deleting every comment that responds to jharp’s list of McCain’s flip-flops. He has posted that on this blog three times and I will delete it the next time he does it.

    I want people to focus their energies on finding the Obama flip-flops and not responding to jharp’s spamming.

    In fact, I’m going to go delete it now.

    Patterico (f8678c)

  6. Strata-Sphere posted just such a list a while back. Just the big ones since he beat Hillary, not the ones from earlier.

    He’s got links to videos and everything.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  7. Obama said he could not disown Pastor Wright.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIW5C5NHBoE

    Obama Disowns Pastor Wright

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JztdU7MYLJA

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  8. OK, I just deleted every post that replied to jharp’s thread hijack. If he attempts it again on this thread, I will ban him. I’m not — repeat, not — going to allow a thread hijack on this thread. I have provided a forum to discuss these issues — see comment two — and you guys can hash it out there.

    The rest of you, stay on topic. That is all.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  9. Obama, at worst, is belittling emotional health vs. physical health. He’s staking out a position that “mental distress” is insufficient grounds for an end-of-term abortion; otherwise the exception would swallow the rule. It may be called “pandering” to the faith-based right through a Christian magazine. But in retrospect it will appear more a push for a “well-defined exception” than “his Declaration of Independence from abortion rights groups.”

    Not that we’re likely to define is what “mental distress” is to Obama and the people who will be making these decisions.

    steve (8655b7)

  10. Here’s the latest one concerning Iraq, which LGF called a “double-backflip”: Obama “puzzled” by Iraq comment frenzy.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  11. #11 – steve

    “mental distress” is what Obama personally experienced every day prior to throwing Wright — and later his church — under the bus.

    BTW, he should admired for his ability to flip an entire church under the bus without flipping the bus itself (and the campaign that it represents).

    Icy Truth (eaa5db)

  12. It’s sad to see a campaign implode so thoroughly. It’s about change – that is, continue change in core beliefs.

    steve miller (724340)

  13. Here’s the latest one concerning Iraq, which LGF called a “double-backflip”

    Beautifully executed, too, right off the 10-meter high dive platform… and into an empty pool.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  14. The list in #14 is not purported to be compete.

    I wanted to make that clear.

    Because I forgot his grandmother: Gateway Pundit: Barack Throws His Ailing Grandmother Under the Bus to Score Political Points.

    Still not complete.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  15. Here’s a list of Obama’s flips from the time period before his Presidential run – it also lists his flops since then, but the first half features flipp – floppery regarding immigration, decriminalization of marijuana, the Cuba embargo and promising not to run for President and finishing out his Senatorial term in office:

    http://massdiscussion.blogspot.com/2008/06/collection-of-obama-flip-flops.html

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  16. Oh gee whiz.

    How could I have forgotten the DC Gun Ban?

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  17. Patterico,

    No need to bother banning me. I won’t be back. I felt it was fair game to also mention McCain’s flip flop’s and don’t think too much of your censorship.

    Best to you with your weblog but I’m going to where contrary views are welcomed.

    jharp (00ec6a)

  18. jharp will be back in 5…4…3…

    Poor boy. Confuses “censorship” with “please stay on topic.”

    steve miller (724340)

  19. #3 – Dmac

    One question – when Obama’s thrown all of those formerly close associates of his under the bus (Reverend Wright, campaign advisors, Ayers, etc.), do they, in fact, count as “flips” as well?

    – Absolutely. In fact, Grandma did both a front- and a back-flip, seeing how he ran over her on March 18th:

    “a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe,”

    – and then backed up over her two days later:

    she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know – there’s a reaction in her that’s been bred into our experiences that don’t go away.”

    – After that double-whammy, Granny was flopping like a carp under those quad rear-wheels. And then there’s the fact that the ‘post-racial candidate’ made that speech on race in Philly in the first place; that should count as a flip-flop.

    Icy Truth (eaa5db)

  20. Confuses “censorship” with “please stay on topic.”

    He also confuses “censorship” with “please discuss it on the forum I have provided.”

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  21. Small loss.

    Here, he says the mental health exception is bad

    Now, I don’t think that “mental distress” qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term. Otherwise, as long as there is such a medical exception in place, I think we can prohibit late-term abortions.

    Of course, last summer
    he said otherwise.

    [H]e told a Planned Parenthood audience last July he would make a top priority as president (here’s a transcript and a video, Obama says “the first thing I’d do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act.”

    Then, having shocked his left wing base with that flip,

    he flipped back.

    Reporter: You said that mental distress shouldn’t be a reason for late-term abortion?

    Obama: “My only point is this — historically I have been a strong believer in a women’s right to choose with her doctor, her pastor and her family. And it is ..I have consistently been saying that you have to have a health exception on many significant restrictions or bans on abortions including late-term abortions.

    In the past there has been some fear on the part of people who, not only people who are anti-abortion, but people who may be in the middle, that that means that if a woman just doesn’t feel good then that is an exception. That’s never been the case.

    I don’t think that is how it has been interpreted. My only point is that in an area like partial-birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously. It can be defined through physical health, It can be defined by serious clinical mental-health diseases. It is not just a matter of feeling blue. I don’t think that’s how pro-choice folks have interpreted it. I don’t think that’s how the courts have interpreted it and I think that’s important to emphasize and understand.”

    I repeat that a mental health exception to a ban makes the ban useless.

    Mike K (b9ce3e)

  22. I’m going to where contrary views are welcomed.

    Like DailyKos? Democratic Underground? Obama’s own website?

    Yeah, really open to alternative viewpoints, every one of them.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  23. Senator Obama defended infanticide while in the Illinois Senate.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  24. jharp,

    There’s a link to another place you spammed that comment, and people are refuting you there. I don’t restrict debate often, but I planned to use this thread for research purposes, and I don’t intend to wade through comments talking about what *you* want to talk about, to find what *I* want to talk about.

    It’s hardly censorship when I gave you a forum. But if you want to take your ball and go home, I really don’t care.

    And that’s the end of that discussion.

    Patterico (f8af25)

  25. Having complained in January of this year that the bar of success was low and that the surge had reduced violence in Iraq to the “intolerable levels” we’d seen in 2006, Obama four months later worried more about setting the bar too high than solidifying the “messy, sloppy status quo”:

    And, see, the problem I have is if the definition of success is so high, no traces of Al Qaida and no possibility of reconstitution, a highly-effective Iraqi government, a Democratic multiethnic, multi- sectarian functioning democracy, no Iranian influence, at least not of the kind that we don’t like, then that portends the possibility of us staying for 20 or 30 years.

    If, on the other hand, our criteria is a messy, sloppy status quo but there’s not, you know, huge outbreaks of violence, there’s still corruption, but the country is struggling along, but it’s not a threat to its neighbors and it’s not an Al Qaida base, that seems to me an achievable goal within a measurable timeframe, and that, I think, is what everybody here on this committee has been trying to drive at, and we haven’t been able to get as clear of an answer as we would like.

    More Obama from April:

    I also think that the surge has reduced violence and provided breathing room, but that breathing room has not been taken the way we would all like it to be taken. And I think what happened in Basra is an example of Shia versus Shia jockeying for power that underscores how complicated the political situation is there and how we still have to continue to work vigorously to resolve it.

    If “that breathing room has not been taken the way we would all like it to be taken,” why isn’t Senator Obama saying, “The civil war rages on,” anymore?

    Elliott (0eb813)

  26. The NYT Editoria Board is not happy with the ever-flipping positons of Obama: New and Not Improved.

    h/t: Ed Morrisey at Hot Air

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  27. Thank god for Google results and the future of this thread. Half of BHO’s gems are getting lost in a virtual spectacle of Oba-mannerisms. Clinging, bitter, guns. Typical white person. May this thread serve as a loving tribute to Barry’s astonishing oratory skills. #21:

    In fact, Grandma did both a front- and a back-flip, seeing how he ran over her on March 18th:

    “a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe,”

    – and then backed up over her two days later:

    “she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know – there’s a reaction in her that’s been bred into our experiences that don’t go away.”

    – After that double-whammy, Granny was flopping like a carp under those quad rear-wheels. And then there’s the fact that the ‘post-racial candidate’ made that speech on race in Philly in the first place; that should count as a flip-flop.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  28. Obama re Israel:

    Flip: “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided,” Obama thundered Wednesday, earning an ovation from the 7,000-plus attendees at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee policy conference. “

    Flop: “On CNN the following day, however, he was singing a different tune. “Well, obviously, it’s going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues. And Jerusalem will be part of those negotiations,” he said when asked whether Palestinians had no future claim to the city. Obama said “as a practical matter, it would be very difficult to execute” a division of the city. “And I think that it is smart for us to — to work through a system in which everybody has access to the extraordinary religious sites in Old Jerusalem but that Israel has a legitimate claim on that city.”

    “From declaring that Jerusalem should remain Israel’s undivided capital to conceding that “Israel has a legitimate claim on that city” in one day — oh, what a difference a day makes! “

    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12903.htm

    Dana (907797)

  29. OT: Alright, I gotta know. Why doesn’t Justin allow comments on his threads?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  30. Obama declares that the Second Amendment is an individual right…

    …after pushing to ban guns within a five mile radius of any school. .

    Mitch Berg (91d047)

  31. Drumwaster, #31, I don’t really know why but I do remember having a lovely discussion in the comments section re the movie Away From Her, which he had posted about…..but come to think about it, I also made a typo and addressed him as Justine rather than Justin….hope that didn’t have anything to do with it.

    http://patterico.com/2008/02/25/quick-oscar-thoughts-and-observations/

    :O

    Dana (907797)

  32. #35:

    Hey Mitch! Good to see you here!

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  33. I found nine of them. My post has links to news stories about all of them, though it doesn’t include all the actual quotes.

    Jimmie (c818a1)

  34. NAFTAquiddick: During the primaries, especially whilst courting voters in Ohio, Sen. Obama said that we should threaten to unilaterally withdraw from NAFTA unless Mexico/Canada agreed to renegotiate it.

    He sent his senior economic policy adviser Austan Goolsbee to Canada to privately reassure Canadians that he didn’t really mean it.

    The Canadians were taking notes, and the notes leaked. When this was exposed, Obama minimized his relationship with Austan Goolsbee, and reiterated his opposition to NAFTA in its current form.

    Obama would go on to say that small town folk who wouldn’t vote for him “cling to” anti-free trade rhetoric. When this was exposed, he denied that he supported free trade.

    Then, once he won the general, he admitted that his rhetoric had been “overheated” and that he didn’t really oppose free trade as much as was previously claimed. Austan Goolsbee is now back with his campaign in an official role again.

    Verdict: I count this as one flip flop (he took an anti-trade position in the primaries and now he’s taking a pro-trade position for the general). Since Sen. Obama is a liberal elitist, rather than a blue collar type, he is personally in favor of free trade. On this issue, he was lying during the primaries, and is telling the truth now. He won’t fight for any free trade agreements in office. If Congress puts a free trade agreement in front of him, he will sign it.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  35. #29 – Vermont Neighbor

    – Thanks! I like “Oba-mannerisms”; that could be the new label for these kinds of things. (Barackian Slip? Barack-Flop?)

    Icy Truth (eaa5db)

  36. OK, if folks being thrown under the bus are now included, it’s a veritable cornucopia:

    First we had his senior Foreign Policy Advisor, Samantha Power:

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/obama-aide-apologizes-for-calling-clinton-a-monster/

    The flipp – flopp on NAFTA:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/20/politics/main4198107.shtml

    Then his manager of the VP vetting process (who was the former head of Fannie Mae) was discovered to have received a sweetheart loan from Countrywide, after Obama had specifically condemned that company for it’s past abuses in the subprime market:

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/06/analysis_vetter_laid_low_by_ve.html

    How’s our list coming along at this point?

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  37. I like the term ‘Obamanureisms’ because he flings the crap fast and furiously especially when the sentence begins ‘As I have always said…’ or
    when he states, ‘This isn’t the X (person) that I’ve known for ‘Y’ (period of time’.

    eaglewingz08 (011de9)

  38. Thanks, Icy!

    #38,
    That may be the one. Oba-manureisms just captures the man and his b*llshit so well. But he’s the greatest orator of our time, of course.

    I did see a front-page Hillary ad on Drudge a while ago. I wonder if the messiah’s stumbles are making people think twice. Those ads, “Will you vote for Hill?” would seem out of place if Barry were doing okay. He’s not.

    The only analysis I can come up with is that the hardcore ‘trons will take anything he spews out. So if it takes him 24 months to pull out, his supposed talent at ‘reaching across the aisle’ may bring one thing. Apathy and compliance from the Left. After all, they’re happily working over time on these flips because they want him. Their ideals as such are negotiable (. . anyone really surprised?).

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  39. #21 and #29

    If I’m not mistaken, after running over grandma and then backing over her, Obama more recently resurrected grandma to feature her in his first general election TV ad, which ran in my state (Ohio). Further, I think that in his even more recent “patriotism” TV ad, he refers to Kansas values (and maybe even his grandparents directly).

    Poor grandma, she doesn’t know which direction she’s going. I’d shove a bat up his a** if I were she.

    Shifiting gears, although it’s a general flip-flop, I think you have to say it is so when Obama’s San Francisco comments hit the airwaves and then Obama tries to campaign in small towns throughout the Midwest as if he loves white people. Face it, Obama thinks whites are a bunch of lowlife crackers.

    In fact, I look at Obama and think of the scene in “Jerry MaGuire” in which Rod Tidwell has Jerry on the telephone screaming, “I love black people!” Except in Obama’s case, everytime he’s in a small Midwest town he should be required to scream, “I love white people!”

    SAM (d671ab)

  40. he refers to Kansas values

    Would those be the Kansas values they teach in Hawaii, in Indonesia, or at the Trinity Baptist Church?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  41. Slightly OT: In addition to flips and flops, how about some of his famous “flubs”, including the “57 states, with two more to go”, plus many others? Dan Quayle was excoriated for adding an “e” to potato; Barack the Magnificent is several light years beyond that.

    navyvet (4c272e)

  42. He flipped Hillary the bird on national TV, and now kisses her a** to get a few votes.

    Scrapiron (c36902)

  43. This may be more of a waffle than a flip-flop but I’m trying to help you cover as many topics as possible:

    AFFIRMATIVE ACTION

    Obama consistently supported affirmative action according to a Newsweek article published April 7, 2008:

    As a lawmaker Obama has never had to confront the issue directly. There haven’t been any major votes on affirmative action since he joined the U.S. Senate, nor during his time in the Illinois Senate. When asked about his position, the campaign pointed to his previous statements on the subject, in which he has defended the practice in broad terms. He has called himself “a firm believer in affirmative action.” In a 1998 Illinois National Political Awareness Test, Obama answered “yes” to questions asking whether state government agencies should take race and sex into account in “college and university admissions, public employment and state contracting.” Following a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 2003 that charted a middle ground on affirmative action, upholding the admissions policy at the University of Michigan Law School, Obama was quoted in the Chicago Defender celebrating the ruling and warning people that “George Bush is still looking to replace some members of the court, more conservative members who might end up reversing this opinion.”

    Newsweek’s analysis is supported by this excerpt from Obama’s Howard University speech given 9/27/2007:

    “Like Katrina did with poverty, Jena exposed glaring inequities in our justice system that were around long before that schoolyard fight broke out. It reminds us of the fact that we have a system that locks away too many young, first-time, non-violent offenders for the better part of their lives – a decision that’s made not by a judge in a courtroom, but by politicians in Washington. It reminds us that we have certain sentences that are based less on the kind of crime you commit than on what you look like and where you come from. It reminds us that we have a Justice Department whose idea of prosecuting civil rights violations is trying to rollback affirmative action programs at our college and universities; a Justice Department whose idea of prosecuting voting rights violations is to look for voting fraud in black and Latino communities where it doesn’t exist.”

    On the other hand, in a May 13, 2007, interview on This Week With George Stephanopoulos, Obama agreed he supports affirmative action but stated his own daughters might not qualify for affirmative action, suggesting that he favors a need-based rather than a race-based system:

    STEPHANOPOULOS: … of the national conversation. You’ve been a strong supporter of affirmative action…

    OBAMA: Yes.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: … and you’re a constitutional law professor, so let’s go back in the classroom. I’m your student, I say, “Professor, you and your wife went to Harvard Law School. You’ve got plenty of money. You’re running for president. Why should your daughters, when they go to college, get affirmative action?”

    OBAMA: Well, first of all, I think that my daughters should probably be treated by any admissions officer as folks who are pretty advantaged, and I think that there’s nothing wrong with us taking that into account as we consider admissions policies at universities.

    I think that we should take into account white kids who have been disadvantaged and have grown up in poverty and shown themselves to have what it takes to succeed.

    So I don’t think those concepts are mutually exclusive. I think what we can say is that in our society, race and class still intersect, that there are a lot of African-American kids who are still struggling, that even those who are in the middle class may be first generation as opposed to fifth or sixth generation college attendees, and that we all have an interest in bringing as many people together to help build this country.

    STEPHANOPOULOS: Sandra Day O’Connor wrote that in 25 years, affirmative action may no longer be necessary. Is she right?

    OBAMA: I would like to think that if we make good decisions and we invest in early childhood education, improve K-12, if we have done what needs to be done to ensure that kids who are qualified to go to college can afford it, that affirmative action becomes a diminishing tool for us to achieve racial equality in this society.

    Note: The link to the transcript of Obama’s “This Week” interview is to a reprint of the transcript at a Chicago Sun-Times’ blog by columnist Lynn Sweet. I couldn’t find the transcript at the ABC News’ website although I did find this announcement that Stephanopoulos would be interviewing Obama on May 13, 2007, and this ABC News/Mary Bruce article reporting on the interview, although it did not mention Obama’s affirmative action comments.

    Finally, the “This Week” interview had this interesting comment by Barack Obama on a related topic:

    OBAMA: If I don’t win, it’s not going to be because of my race. It’s going to be because I didn’t project a vision of leadership that gave people confidence.

    What a difference a year makes.

    UPDATE 8/10/2008 – The Politico reviews Obama’s changing positions on affirmative action.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  44. Here are 5 early Obama flip-flops compiled by the Washington Post in February 2008.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  45. This site has a lot of them as well:
    Mass Discussion.

    steve miller (724340)

  46. Here is a YouTube video link to affirmative action waffle in my comment #47, above.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  47. This seems like a pretty academic exercise. What’s the point of this other than to show that people don’t speak exactly the same at different times. Is this supposed to be some silver bullet that is going to slay the big bad Obama-mobile and get Juan elected or is it just that you guys can’t stand constitutional scholars who can call you out on your nonsense?

    Peter (e70d1c)

  48. I once saw Obama walking down the street. First he turned right at the corner before he realized he was going in the wrong direction and he turned to the left. I couldn’t believe the nerve of the guy to flip flop like that in the middle of the sidewalk. And he expects to be president? Ridiculous.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  49. constitutional scholars?

    Hazy (c36902)

  50. Yeah, you know people who actually still care about the rights and protections of individuals and not the rights and protections of let’s say, incompetent Presidents who piss on the document or right-wing agents in the supreme court with an obvious agendas and large powerful billion dollar Telecoms who can probably fight off a frivilous lawsuit with the profit it makes in one second. Why the big bone against Greenwald? (Feel free to check my damned IP losers), Is anyone for real claiming they’ve caught out that guy on a sock puppet cos there were other people on the same ISP? That’s just about the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of considering the many millions of subscribers that are even on an ISP in Brazil. Unless you’ve got a mac address for someone’s computer, you’ve got nothing. You basically pissing up a tree. Anyhow it’s past 4 AM where I am so you little right wing junior Swift boaters carry on with you sneaky little anti-Obama project.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  51. Poor Peter.

    Can’t argue against the facts (Backtrack Barack, epitome of honesty & smartness, can’t figure out what he really thinks until he takes a poll).

    Reduced to bringing up irrelevant information which amounts to “stop picking on my candidate; it makes me feel sad.”

    Thanks for stopping. Bye.

    steve miller (724340)

  52. Is anyone for real claiming they’ve caught out that guy on a sock puppet cos there were other people on the same ISP?

    Not “ISP”. That is the company that provides internet access. All of Gigi’s sockpuppets appeared at the same “IP” address.

    That means a specific computer at a specific meatspace address. Multiple users from the same IP address are sharing the same keyboard, not the same service provider.

    Unless you’ve got a mac address for someone’s computer, you’ve got nothing

    The MAC address identifies the specific piece of electronic equipment inside the computer, but the IP address is assigned by the ISP, and is specific to a single computer. When you connect, and are given an IP address, your computer will send that information out every time it seeks information from a website, so that the information makes it back to the right computer. (If it didn’t, your fellow citizens on the same ISP company would start receiving your web searches at random, and you would receive theirs.)

    So, when multiple names are posting from the same IP address within a span of just a few minutes, I would expect that from a computer at an Internet cafe or public library, but not from a private home.

    Next time you wish to opine about things technical, better ask for help from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Which isn’t you.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  53. The essence of the argument is, of course, that “my candidate promises X today, and Y tomorrow, but I believe him no matter what he contradicts from day to day because — well, I’m impervious to facts.”

    steve miller (724340)

  54. First he turned right at the corner before he realized he was going in the wrong direction and he turned to the left. I couldn’t believe the nerve of the guy to flip flop like that in the middle of the sidewalk. And he expects to be president? Ridiculous.

    If he were just some wannabe State Senator who kept getting lost in the twists and turns of downtown Chicago, that would be one thing, and I would only questiuon whether I would want him leading tour groups around.

    But when he can’t remember what he is supposed to be believing from one day to the next (when these are supposed to be his “core principles”), and he actually WANTS to be President, not being able to make up his mind between whether or not he’s going to toss his pastor of twenty years under the bus shows a severe lack of leadership on what would seem to be fairly serious personal issues – integrity and honor.

    If the American people don’t know what to expect from him on crucial legal and political issues, why do you think that he deserves their support to be President? Because of his skin color? Although I can’t for the life of me figure out what that has to do with anything. Without that “one drop” standard he seems to be using to claim his “blackness”, he is nothing more than a fast-talkin’, “South Side of Chicago” pol with no experience that qualifies him for anything more complicated than precinct boss.

    But because he’s black, that makes him the Great Black Hope for beating the GOP. (Of course, given the fact that he didn’t garner an actual majority of primary votes, I wonder what you are saying about “selected, not elected” nowadays.)

    When even Democrats are poiniting out the Beam of saying that he is a flip-flopper (the likes of which would have embarrassed John Kerry), you can’t whine about the Mote of having Republicans notice as well…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  55. Obama in a 2006 statement concerning his vote against the Constitutional ban on gay marriage: “…decisions about marriage should be left to the states…”

    Obama in a 2008 letter to an LGBT group’s annual Pride Breakfast: “…I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts…of other states.”

    SkewRed (74946b)

  56. Some key phrases from Obama’s Super Tuesday speech:

    “You’re tired of hearing promises made and plans proposed in the heat of a campaign, only to have nothing change when everyone goes back to Washington.”
    – See: NAFTA & NARAL pandering.

    “And if I am your nominee, my opponent will not be able to say that I voted for the war in Iraq, because I didn’t, or that I gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran, because I haven’t, or that I support the Bush-Cheney doctrine of not talking to leaders we don’t like, because I profoundly disagree with that approach.”
    – Repeating what he had said in the debates about direct talks with foreign leaders, prior to attempting to say that there would be conditions, which happened right after he suggested that some of those countries were too small to pose a threat to anybody, like Venezuela which promptly threatened its next door neighbor Colombia; proving that when his surrogates start squawking about “Judgment! It’s ALL about who has better judgment,” they might as well be pissing in the wind.

    “The Republicans running for president have already tied themselves to the past. The speak of 100-year war in Iraq.”
    – I’m not sure if he’s ever flip-flopped away from repeating this lie.

    “They talk about billions more in tax breaks for the wealthiest few, who don’t need them and didn’t even ask them”
    – Falsely asserting that business-owners don’t want a tax structure that actually allows them to keep doing business.

    “I’ll be the president who ends the tax breaks to companies that ship our jobs overseas and start putting them in the pockets of hardworking Americans who deserve them”
    – That’s right, business doesn’t DESERVE any tax breaks AND Bush’s tax-cuts weren’t good for the middle class; one sentence, two lies.

    “I am blessed to be standing in the city where my own extraordinary journey of service began.”
    – Can you feel the humility?

    “Change will not come if we wait for some other person or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.”
    – Ah yes. The messiah and his flock. Strangely appropriate given the way that they follow him like sheep (or ‘sheeple’ if you will).

    “We are the hope of the future, the answer to the cynics who tell us our house must stand divided”
    – This was the second time in this speech that Obama referenced Abraham Lincoln’s famous 1858 ‘House Divided’ speech, equating the current partisan rift in Congress, and the nation at large, with the then growing rift between the North and South regarding slavery . . . proving, as if everything else I’ve shown here hasn’t done it, that he has NO shame whatsoever; a fact proven just the other day when his people fabricated a presidential seal with his campaign slogan on it.

    Icy Truth (bbe14d)

  57. Well done Patterico – excellent undertaking.
    This will make for a wonderful compendium. I have left leaning friends who will be referred to your long and growing list with a link once you’ve posted your compilation. They are starting to see a tarnish in the shallow Obama veneer.
    Obama is one of those rare unprincipled politicians where you get more than a “flip” and then a “flop”. Often you get a third reversal. May I suggest that you label these “back flip”.
    It’s amazing that Obama has not hurt himself yet with all of these contortions.

    marvls (52f293)

  58. #51 – Peter

    you little right wing junior Swift boaters carry on with you sneaky little anti-Obama project.

    Sneaky? We must not be speaking-out loudly enough!

    Icy Truth (bbe14d)

  59. While there are a few changes of position here (and I change my position sometimes, and even Patterico changes his position sometimes) most of these “flip-flops” are really just people parsing Obama’s words.

    But of course, you’ve got nothing better to do, since this election is simply choice between “change” versus “more of the same.”

    Phil (276c70)

  60. Yep, being against FISA (“I will filibuster it!”) and then for it (“I voted for it without a peep of protest”) is just a simple change of words.

    And being against the right to keep and bear arms (2007) and for it (2008) are just a readjustment of nomenclature.

    And being for unrestricted abortion (2008) and for mental-health restrictions (2008) are just a redeployment of terms.

    Backtrack Barack might be something special, but he’s not someone who has integrity. He’s a politician (and a money-grubbing one at that!) who claims to be purer and more sophisticated.

    We rubes who think words mean things (actually, Bactrack Obama once made that very statement!) sometimes experience cognitive dissonance when someone says one thing one day, then contradicts himself the next, then flips back the third. We think that a man who has integrity would understand what he really believes.

    But the faithful for the Obamessiah aren’t really thinking. They’re in love, and their lover can do no wrong.

    Good for you to be in love. That’s a great feeling.

    It’s a bad reason to vote for a shape-shifter, however.

    steve miller (724340)

  61. I think one of the most interesting flip-flops is, of course, Backtrack Barack’s “bitter voters who cling to God and guns” and his new-found public attachment to God and guns.

    Is Backtrack bitter now?

    steve miller (724340)

  62. “just people parsing Obama’s words”

    Can I just say heh to that?

    Lord Nazh (899dce)

  63. most of these “flip-flops” are really just people parsing Obama’s words

    I suppose that is true, provided the newest dictionary defines parsing as taking Baracky’s own words on the topic and comparing them.

    JD (75f5c3)

  64. To anyone who claims that the making of such an argument is “just parsing words”, I would have to ask him what the meaning of “is”, is.

    I mean, since parsing words is such a horrendous thing to do and all…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  65. “parsing words” means “paying attention to what is said.”

    After all, what, exactly, has Backtrack Barack ever done while in office? Or even out of office? He’s not known for doing anything in particular. He is known for saying words.

    A man of many promises and positions, depending on the time of day.

    steve miller (724340)

  66. Phil,

    It’s one thing to change your position on an issue. It’s quite another thing to change your position on virtually every issue for which you have stated a coherent position. And — when you’re comparing Obama’s changing positions to those of McCain — also consider the length of Obama’s political career versus the length of McCain’s career, the difference is striking.

    aunursa (09c81f)

  67. Don’t you redneck rubes get it? It is nuance, beyond your ability to comprehend.

    JD (75f5c3)

  68. ‘May I suggest that you label these “back flip”.’

    Maybe you could sing the theme song to the old TV series about a heroic dolphin, called “Flipper:”

    “They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,
    No-one you see, is smarter than he,
    And we know Flipper, lives in a world full of wonder,
    Flying there-under, under the sea!
    Everyone loves the king of the sea,
    Ever so kind and gentle is he,
    Tricks he will do when children appear,
    And how they laugh when he’s near!
    They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,
    No-one you see, is smarter than he,
    And we know Flipper, lives in a world full of wonder,
    Flying there-under, under the sea!”

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  69. This focus on “flip-flops” is just another example of the old cynical politics that Barack is trying to change. It’s a distraction from the message of hope that voters are seeking. Looking forward in unity, not backwards in division, we are the change we have been waiting for.

    g Hussein p (72be5d)

  70. Too funny.

    steve miller (724340)

  71. “…WE ARE THE CHANGE WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR.”

    ZEIG HEIL!

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  72. We are the chains we have been waiting for.

    steve miller (724340)

  73. These are not the droids you’re looking for.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  74. “Looking forward in unity, not backwards in division…”

    To go backwards in union, nor forward in derision, nor sideways in illusion, but always in confusion.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  75. Changing my mind consistently from Day One.

    steve miller (724340)

  76. Stuck between Iraq and a hard place.

    steve miller (724340)

  77. The Democratic Party: Stuck between Barack and a hard case.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  78. Obama – not the man he thought he knew.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  79. “Hope and Change: He hopes you won’t notice his changes…”

    Since it is all about partisanship and fundraising, I suggest that BO take on a hip hop name: D-Money.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  80. “To change the changeless, to hope the hopeless, to defeat the defeatless.”

    That acceptance speech in the Bronco’s stadium is going to be flat – out hilarious and/or creepy.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  81. Not one for keeping my word, I promise

    steve miller (724340)

  82. Oh, come now. Nothing could be as bad as John Kerry saluting and saying, “Reporting for duty!” at the last such shindig.

    I laughed ’til the tears came.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  83. Proving Abe Lincoln on fooling people.

    steve miller (724340)

  84. Oh, in the stadium his speech will start with
    “Blessed are the poor in income, for they shall receive free healthcare.”

    And go from there.

    steve miller (724340)

  85. I’m thinking it’s going to look something like this (vid of Asian prisoners dancing to “Thriller”):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o

    Yeah, that’s the ticket.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  86. Braying donkeys, pooh flinging monkeys.

    crouching communists, springing socialists

    I’m trying to remember the movie title. Wasn’t it nominated for an academy award with the human butterball’s mockumentaries?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  87. #38-

    According to one of his fanatics, he’s an ORATATOR. Frank Luntz (sp?) had that beaut in one of his post-debate forums before he became the presumed nom.

    I had to laugh…oratator. The irony (or would that be ironony?)

    LickyLicky (ffc492)

  88. Let us not forget Chrissy Matthews’ utterance of “getting a chill up my leg” during the O – Man’s speechifying. Gives me a chill somewhere else when I think of what we’re going to hear from the adoring commentators during his mass indoctrination in Denver. Oh well, maybe some of Hillary’s supporters will show up and try to disrupt the mass love – in, accompanied with screams of sexism. Oh, how I wish…

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  89. Our Obamessiah, who may or may not be from Heaven, hallowed be Thy Middle Name, if a middle name Thou Hast, and any desire to see it hallowed. Give us this day our daily fresh fruit in the house if it pleases you and if not, not. Tell us also what to think from moment to moment about the GWOT, Iraq, abortion, taxes, the Second amendment, Reverend Wright, Your Blessed Grandmother, and just about anything else that might strike Your Whim. As Your Mighty Whim may please. For Yours is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory should You wish it to be. Amen. Vero possumus.

    nk (479e05)

  90. Obama: He Who Must Not Be Middle-Named.

    LickyLicky (ffc492)

  91. Done quite awhile ago; however, the list is getting so long the Executive Summary format was in order.

    Mike O (adb8be)

  92. Chris Matthews humiliates state senator Kirk Watson on “Name one experience Obama has”, then gets a tingling up his leg on…voila, same Obama.Article and video, here

    Entelechy (4e1c6d)

  93. This was good. (From Mike O’s link) IMAO.

    Sub Currus Vobis: “Under the bus with you!”

    steve miller (724340)

  94. Patterico, a friendly note

    With the Obama messianic rise,

    Flip-flopping is out.

    “Inartful speech” (Obama) + “verbally maladroit” (Frank Rich) is in.

    Entelechy (4e1c6d)

  95. Flip-flops have become boring; what we need is a better way of keeping track of the candidate’s changes, the flipindex, or flipdex. The initial statement of a position is 0, the flip is 1, the flop is 2, the reflip or flap is 3, each change increasing the flipdex. Note could be taken of the highest flipdex, the fastest change, and the number of changes in some period of time. Fractional flipdex numbers could allow for partial changes.

    htom (412a17)

  96. My favorite is his flip-flop on attacking patriotism, chronicled here.

    But perhaps more concerning, is what’s causing the flip-flops.

    Heywood U. Reedmore (8443d0)

  97. Obama’s biggest flip-flop was standing by the Rev. Wright until the ‘good’ reverand said “he will say and do anything to win; he’s a politician like all others”.

    Under the bus he went, instantly.

    Entelechy (4e1c6d)

  98. Obama: “I will not weaponize space. I will cut billions of wasteful spending. I will slow the development of Future Combat Systems”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs

    2) High-Tech Combat Equipment Expedited for Use in Iraq
    By Donna Borak Associated Press Friday, June 27, 2008; D04
    WASHINGTON — The Army will deliver some key technologies to ground forces in war zones three years ahead of schedule as part of its $160 billion combat modernization program led by Boeing and SAIC. Senior Army officials said Thursday that changes to the Future Combat Systems program will expedite the use of high-tech equipment, including unmanned sensors and robotics, to infantry brigades fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan by 2011. Portions of the program were expected to be used by armored units by 2014, but Army officials say the technology is needed for the current war effort.Lt. Gen. Michael A. Vane, director of the Army Capabilities Integration Center, said accelerating FCS and other complementary programs will help fill in gaps created by huge demands on the infantry brigades while increasing the effectiveness and safety of U.S. soldiers. Army officials maintain that although costs might rise in the short term from the new schedule, they will balance out in future years and will not raise FCS’s overall price tag, which lawmakers have criticized. Lead contractors Boeing and SAIC said the Army’s decision to accelerate the combat system technologies shows confidence in the program’s progress. FCS includes 14 manned and unmanned systems linked through a secure communications network.On Wednesday, Army Chief of Staff Gen. George W. Casey Jr. briefed Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates on plans to restructure the program. Gates, who backed the shift, told reporters at a briefing Thursday that FCS “deserves support.”Dan Goure, a defense analyst at the Lexington Institute, said it appears that the Army “didn’t want to repeat the same mistake” as the Air Force, which battled Gates publicly over F-22 jets made by Lockheed Martin. Gates had previously raised doubts about FCS.”Clearly, this shows that Gates is in command in a way few secretaries have been of the services,” Goure said. A few lawmakers lauded the Army’s decision. But House Armed Services Committee Chairman Ike Skelton, D-Mo., and Hawaii Democrat Neil Abercrombie, chairman of the air and land subcommittee, expressed concern that the new plan “may not allow for adequate testing of the equipment due to its very tight schedule.”

    J Fishman (5c621d)

  99. Didn’t Realize What He Was Saying?

    An Obama advisor, Daniel Kurtzer, to Barack Obama says that Obama didn’t realize what he was saying to AIPAC when he used the term ”undivided” in reference to Jerusalem. According to Kurtzer, Obama had “a picture in his mind of Jerusalem before 1967 with barbed wires and minefields and demilitarized zones.” Kurtzer says that only after the speech did Obama realize it was a “code word” to use the phrase, “but it does not indicate any kind of naivete about foreign affairs.”

    Not understanding that a key term is a code word, not having a current picture of Jerusalem, and not anticipating the implications of having to reverse field within 24 hours sure sounds naive. Even more so, if the advisor says Obama didn’t understand what he was saying. But wait a minute. Didn’t Obama have advisors on Israel assisting him with the speech? Where were they? Once again, this suggests that there is too little adult supervision of a candidate unaccustomed to speaking on the world stage about issues in which there are lots of code words, indeed in which every word (e.g. “preconditons,” “immediate withdrawal”) has meaning to Americans’ foes and friends.

    J Fishman (5c621d)

  100. One time I heard Obama ordering a sandwich. First he asked for the ham and cheese on rye and then…THEN he had the nerve to change his mind completely and say: Make that ham and cheese on a roll. I tell you I was…SHOCKED!! SHOCKED!!! HOW DARE THIS MAN THINK HE CAN SAY ONE THING AND THEN ANOTHER. I TELL YOU WE DON”T NEED A PRESIDENT WHO CAN”T DECIDE BETWEEN WHETHER HE WANTS HIS HAM AND CHEESE ON RYE OR HIS HAM AND CHEESE ON A ROLL!!!!!

    Peter (e70d1c)

  101. Obama: A visit to Iraq is “garbage”

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5838315.html

    Obama: I am going to Iraq

    A report today tells us that Barack Obama foreign policy advisor Susan Rice says the issue of Obama’s failure to visit Iraq is “garbage” and since President Bush and Vice President Cheney went and didn’t learn much, neither would Obama. Well, this is disturbing on multiple levels. First, “garbage” is how a foreign policy adviser talks ? (Is this the trash-talk express again?)
    Second, Bush and Cheney apparently did learn things in Iraq–they changed their entire strategy there, after all. And even if they had not, isn’t Obama supposed to be smarter and more adept at uncovering facts than they? Finally, this suggests that the know-nothing-ism that now seems to characterize the Obama approach to Iraq is not abating anytime soon and, indeed, is being encouraged by his advisers.
    The report explains:

    Brookings Institution military expert Michael O’Hanlon, who advised 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, says politicians need to see the post-surge changes in Iraq first-hand.”I think it’s a no-brainer,” says O’Hanlon, adding that Obama would be “remiss” as a candidate if he didn’t visit soon. O’Hanlon once was sharply critical of U.S. policy in Iraq, but after several post-surge visits is hopeful of a good outcome.”I’m struck by how much you learn on these trips, when you meet enlisted soldiers or a battalion commander in the field … When commanders in the field say it’s going a lot better, they’re not saying that because George Bush told them to. Obama’s going to get a lot of straight talk,” O’Hanlon says.

    (For those interested in prior critiques by O’Hanlon of Iraq, much of his writing is available here and here. His New York Times piece, co-written with Kenneth Pollack, is worth a re-read as well.) But are we now to assume that Obama going forward will be deaf to any new facts that conflict with his predetermined views on Iraq? One certainly hopes not, but it is becoming harder and harder for him to align himself with reality the more he and his advisers protest that there is nothing more to learn.

    J Fishman (5c621d)

  102. Didn’t Obama have advisors on Israel assisting him with the speech? Where were they?

    They were probably trying to make sure John McCain could tell the difference between the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq? But that’s just a guess…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  103. I TELL YOU WE DON”T NEED A PRESIDENT WHO CAN”T DECIDE BETWEEN WHETHER HE WANTS HIS HAM AND CHEESE ON RYE OR HIS HAM AND CHEESE ON A ROLL!!!!!

    How does that straw man taste? And those ALL CAPS were a nice touch. Let’s us know exactly what we’re talking to.

    (Hint: CAPS LOCK is cruise control for stupid.)

    When… no, if you are ever capable of discussing the ultimate failure that is Barack May-His-Middle-Name-Never-Be-Spoken Obama, feel free to step up and give it a whirl.

    But sheer stupidity on the scale you just displayed leads me to believe that you won’t even know what the hell I’m talking about.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  104. They were probably trying to make sure John McCain could tell the difference between the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq?

    Translation: “Quick! Look over there!”

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  105. aphrael and Leviticus – Can’t you teach people like Peter and harpy how to disagree without being disagreeable?

    JD (75f5c3)

  106. Here is how Obama responds on his website to some of the flip-flops. Maybe someone can refute what he posts for his own followers to believe. (I wish I had the time to do the research myself.) Barack Obama’s fact check on his website.

    yourlilsis (e155f7)

  107. I don’t have time to read his website & wonder what else he has scrubbed away because it’s inconvenient.

    steve miller (724340)


  108. Second, Bush and Cheney apparently did learn things in Iraq–they changed their entire strategy there, after all. And even if they had not, isn’t Obama supposed to be smarter and more adept at uncovering facts than they?

    Of course he is. But Bush and Cheney (and Rumsfeld) have (had) the apparatus, technology and infrastructure of the worlds most advanced best equipped intelligence agencies and the full 24/7 round the clock supprt of the Pentagon to help them make decisions.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  109. But Baracky knows better than all of those people, right Peter? Since he has vowed to not listen to the Generals and surrender immediately, and then listen to the Generals and surrender slowly, what are we to believe?

    JD (75f5c3)

  110. They just gather data and explain assumptions. They do not get to make the decisions. That responsibility rests squarely on NCA’s pointy little head.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  111. OBAMA WON’T WEAR “THAT PIN.”
    LINK: http://youtube.com/watch?v=JmHtGQq-z_Y

    OBAMA WANTS EVERYONE TO KNOWS HE’LL WEAR “THAT PIN.”
    LINK:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/opinion/04fri1.html?_r=3&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    jose (a372a3)

  112. FLIP:”ONE OF MY FAVORITY TASKS OF BEING A SENATOR IS HOSTING TOWN HALL MEETINGS.” -AUDACITY OF HOPE, PG. 101
    LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey97Zo4okBc

    FLOP: OBAMA WILL DO ONE TOWN HALL EVENT ON DAY THAT NO ONE IS WATCHING
    LINK: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign14-2008jun14,0,7914999.story

    jose (a372a3)


  113. Not “ISP”. That is the company that provides internet access. All of Gigi’s sockpuppets appeared at the same “IP” address.

    That means a specific computer at a specific meatspace address. Multiple users from the same IP address are sharing the same keyboard, not the same service provider.

    No it does not. Anyone working of the same network from a conventional router or a wifi signal is going to generate the exact same IP address in the ip logs. The only thing distinguishable items from one computer to another are OS (whatever Apple or Windows or Linux variation) and Browser/version type.

    And even if you have all those variables identical, it is still a stretch to say that you know exactly who’s keyboard it is or who’s behind that keyboard. Far as I know the only people with that knowledge are the ISP or the Sys. Admin who’s running the network and even then he/she would have to have access to the MAC address for Greenwald’s computers.

    I think it’s silly for Mr. Patterico and his jolly crew of right wing attorneys to think Greenwald wastes his time with sock puppetry when he’s got a sizable reading audience. I mean to be honest it’s actually pathetic to be needling through IP logs trying to find a GOTCHA moment on the slimest of chances and on something that ultimately can’t be proved.

    But you guys seem to like fishing around for ammo for you fight against…um who exactly: People who care about Executive infringement of the consitution? Because…AQ is going to use our rights against us? Okay…maybe, but it sure shows little faith in the cornerstone and legal foundation for the Republic, so I’m wondering…what part of the Constitution is still valid for you guys? Do you just want to trash it and let the likes of a President (any President) circumvent and suppress it at an time? Not much of a document if in the worst of times, suddenly it can be declared invalid for any reason short of a land invasion by a standing army…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  114. people in this country cant be stupid enough to vote for this man……he has 143 days in the senate PERIOD…

    he is giving us all whiplash with his twists and turns….it is evident he doesnt know squat about much of anything…..

    john kerry is the king of flip flops but hussein obama is right on his heels…….

    rjean (d671ab)

  115. OBAMA CAMPAIGN STATES THAT IT DIDN’T REASSURE CANADIAN OFFICIALS THAT HIS POSITION TO OPT OUT OF NAFTA IS IT CAN’T NEGOTIATE IS JUST RHETORIC
    LINK:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/02/29/obamas-nafta-double-talk-confirmed-ctv/

    OBAMA SENDS MAILERS TO VOTERS ATTACKING HILLARY FOR SUPPORTING NAFTA
    LINK (WITH IMAGES OF MAILER):
    http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/obama_mailer_attacks_hillary_o.php

    OBAMA: NAFTA NOT SO BAD AFTER ALL
    LINK:
    http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easton_obama.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008061810

    jose (a372a3)

  116. FLIP: And, even though he has been a member of Trinity United for the past 20 years, Obama said he had never witnessed Wright making such statements.
    LINK: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/14/obama.minister/index.html

    FLOP: OBAMA’S FIRST SERVICE AT WRIGHT’S CHURCH *WAS* CONTROVERSIAL
    LINK: http://www.slate.com/id/2187358/

    jose (a372a3)

  117. 1996 IVI-IPO questionnaire: Seen or unseen?

    Elliott (cd1ada)

  118. Psssst….I have it on good knowledge (the pictures are going to arrive any day now) than when Obama lived in Hawaii…he wore flip flop sandals!! FLIP FLOPS!! The guy wants to be the most powerful man on the face of the earth and he WEARS FLIP FLOPS IN HOT WEATHER!! Someone get on the horn to the RNC and Rush with this. WE CANNOT ALLOW A MAN WHO ONCE WORE open toed flimsy FLIP FLOPS in HAWAII! Did someone say Manchurian Candidate or Marxist? Well what else would a Marxist wear, but flip flops…hell I’m wearing flip flops right now because it’s eighty degrees in NYC but never mind. I don’t even know who this Marxist guy is anyway (is he on MySpace or Facebook??), anyhow I digress. This is huge!! Everyone taked out your Rush Limbaugh decoder rings and get crackin’. It’s your duty as an American and a Patriot. Oh and btw…now that I know how evil Flip Flops are I’m going to stop wearing them…and only stick with the Hagee approved Jack boots and the brown shirt…I don’t care how uncomfortable my feet get…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  119. Anybody checked Peter’s IP address and jharp’s ? They might be twins separated at birth but…

    Mike K (b9ce3e)

  120. I think it’s silly for Mr. Patterico and his jolly crew of right wing attorneys to think Greenwald wastes his time with sock puppetry when he’s got a sizable reading audience.

    Right, he should be spending his time on writing a new best-seller so he can be read into the Senate record again. And, chasing the Cabana Boyz that were posting in his stead.

    Do you tire of flogging the strawmen, Peter?

    JD (75f5c3)

  121. what part of the Constitution is still valid for you guys?

    How about we start with Article II for starters, m’kay? (I’m going to leave the rest of your nonsense about “wifi” and the rest to the arguments already made by Patterico and others.)

    It boils down to one thing, IMO: Where are all of these people that were defending him? Where is this mythical person using his Wi-Fi network? (Related: how can someone so computer-savvy not know about password protection?) Someone so familiar with his rhetorical style, his arguments, his reasoning, his enemies, and all the rest, yet isn’t him. In fact, Gigi, normally so dedicated to defending his honor, never appears in any thread where the sockpuppets have appeared.

    And in one instance, a sockpuppet made the very argument Gigi was making in his very next column, including almost the same phrasing, yet claims to be a different individual.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)


  122. people in this country cant be stupid enough to vote for this man……he has 143 days in the senate PERIOD…

    Yeah…you know who else barely had any experience (only 12 years in govt.)Abe Lincoln. That’s right. Abe Lincoln and that guy could hold a country together or lead a divided government or give a good speech if his life depended on it.

    Also I have it on good knowledge that if Obama gets elected Pres. no one with any experience in govt. or foreign affairs is going to help or advise him. I’m pretty sure Daschle, Kennedy, Edwards, Hillary, Wesley CLark, Colin Powell, Joe Biden, a clear dem. majority in the house and senate are going to want anything to do with him. They’ll be like screw you jack!! You want to be POTUS, do it by your own gosh darn self Mr. BigShot.

    He’ll just be sitting in the oval office all by himself…wearing his FLIP FLOP (you have type FLIP FLOP in Capitals at all times amiright? I hope I’m doing it correctly.) wearing his FLIP FLOP sandals and wondering why no one will come visit him or be his friend. While the whole world goes to hell…

    I can see into the future because I am psychic.

    Peter (e70d1c)


  123. Do you tire of flogging the strawmen, Peter?

    I don’t know…do you get tired of flogging strawmen that are being flogged by other strawmen?? Or how about liars? You get tired of giving hand jobs to liars?

    Peter (e70d1c)

  124. he’s not even an entertaining troll

    chas (12a229)

  125. I can see into the future because I am psychic.

    You forgot a syllable. It’s actually spelled P-S-Y-C-H-O-T-I-C.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  126. You get tired of giving hand jobs to liars?

    Dude. Please.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  127. I don’t know…do you get tired of flogging strawmen that are being flogged by other strawmen?? Or how about liars? You get tired of giving hand jobs to liars?

    ESL student ?

    JD (75f5c3)

  128. In actuality, Little Petey never gets tired of flogging himself, at least if his inane manic – depressive mood swings displayed here are any indication. The level of discourse posted suggests an intellect so shallow as to cause doubt that he actually casts a shadow when he goes outside.

    “…um who exactly:”

    Further indication of an adolescent presence here – note the use of “um’s” and ignorance of proper grammar usage patterns. Petey, when you finally get toilet – trained come on back here and please tell us all about it, we’ll be so proud of you.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  129. “No it does not. Anyone working of the same network from a conventional router or a wifi signal is going to generate the exact same IP address in the ip logs.”

    heh quit using the free ip loggers ok?

    “you know who else barely had any experience (only 12 years in govt.)Abe Lincoln.”

    Look over there!

    Lord Nazh (899dce)


  130. Where is this mythical person using his Wi-Fi network? (Related: how can someone so computer-savvy not know about password protection?

    That’s the thing. You don’t know what the IP address is for his Wi-Fi network and…you know on any given day…I can make a post from, work…from home…from the library…from an cafe or a bookstore and you know what? So can anyone else. The ip you people are fixated on might be Starbucks Internet ISP in Brazil…you have no idea. I leave my wi-fi unsecured plenty of the time (I like to share Internet access…does that make me a Marxist? Ooops.). Anyone who uses my wi fi network is going to generate the exact same ip as me and if that’s not enough, how many people are running XP with the latest Firefox millions?

    Okay…let’s say there is a chance he’s making an anonymous comment? So what? It must prove that what…he’s insecure about his stance on FISA? He’s a sneak and liar? He’s gay? I’m not sure what’s the point of it? Seems to me if you guys don’t agree with him you argue the merits of his position. You don’t spend time trying to catch him using a sock puppet. Same with Obama…you don’t agree with his ideas and positions (they’re completely laid out in a pdf you can download from the Obama site), argue the merits or weaknesses in his approach…why spend so much time creating flip flops? It wouldn’t be because in both the case of Greenwald and Obama, you think it’s more fun to f*ck with people than it is to soberly debate the issues? It wouldn’t be because the record of failure and incompetence for Republicans is so embarassing would it?

    Peter (e70d1c)

  131. Well, I don’t miss the harpster, but peter is no improvement.

    steve miller (724340)

  132. I miss Levi and harpy. Peter is a cock.

    JD (75f5c3)

  133. peter, I will do you a favor to prevent yourself from looking more foolish.

    go google this site and find the articles by patterico on Gleen. then find the articles by a few other sites that collaborated to deduce the IP address used to make all the posts.

    then after you read the information you will be better edumacated and not post speculation.

    we’re not your teachers, and we don’t have to put it all out for every newcomer.

    steve miller (724340)

  134. Same with Obama…you don’t agree with his ideas and positions

    Which ones? The ones he voted on? The ones he claims credit for? The ones he campaigned on? The prior promises he made? Statements from the primary? Or today’s version of his position? Simply referring back to his website is not an argument.

    JD (75f5c3)

  135. steve – I do not think it would be possible to give Peter a clue, even with a cluebat.

    JD (75f5c3)

  136. He’s a sneak and liar?

    DINGDINGDINGINGING!!

    We have a winnah!

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  137. More gems from “Thomas Ellers”:

    “They’ll be like screw you jack!!”

    “Like,” Petey? Are you even out of middle school?

    “…and only stick with the Hagee approved Jack boots and the brown shirt…I don’t care how uncomfortable my feet…”

    This doesn’t even make sense if it emanated from a ranting Tourette’s Syndrome mind – meld. “Ellers” is trying feebly to immobilize all cognizant thought by throwing waves of stupid at it.

    Or maybe we’re dealing with “Rick Ellensberg” – aren’t there at least four other aliases that were discovered behind said sock puppetry? Rick, come out behind the hedge! Thomas, there’s no need to hide behind your secret identity anymore! Take down those walls, Rick!

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  138. Not only does Obama wear flip flops in hot weather, but SO DOES HIS WIFE AND HIS KIDS!! You believe that. He lets his little girls wear FLIP FLOPS!!!

    Man…what is this nation coming to, when everyone anyone can go to Old Navy and buy a pair of FLIP FLOPS!!!

    Peter (e70d1c)

  139. He’s a sneak and liar?

    That reminded me of the Tanya Harding 9-1-1 call where the hilljack boyfriend was yelling “She’s a liar! She’s a liar, and a felon!” in the background.

    JD (75f5c3)

  140. Why do you insist on bringing Michelle, and Baracky’s children into this, Peter? You are just acting as a distraction, and not helping Michelle keep fresh fruit in the home.

    JD (75f5c3)

  141. “…do you get tired of flogging strawmen that are being flogged by other strawmen?? “You get tired of giving hand jobs to liars?”

    Lots of tirades regarding the use of one’s hands on one’s member – Petey, do you know what the word “projection” means?

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  142. everyone anyone can go to Old Navy and buy a pair of FLIP FLOPS!!

    Not everyone walking into Old Navy should be President, but thanks for finally admitting that Obama’s only qualification is that he bought a pair of shoes once.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  143. …and not helping Michelle keep fresh fruit in the home.”

    Not to mention the astronomical price of Arugula today – that’s gotta be a hardship for both of them.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  144. Obama: “Arugula’s not the vegetable I thought I knew.”

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  145. Dmac – that was funny. Thanks!

    steve miller (724340)

  146. Sheesh, is there a pharmacy in Brazil that’s run out of Prozac?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  147. John McCormack found a gem (which the RNC is now disseminating), an Obama television appearance from January 2007:

    “I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.”

    MSNBC Transcript here.

    Elliott (cd1ada)

  148. You’re pretty funny yourself, Steve! Decent tag team on the nutbag this morning, if I do say so myself.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  149. LET’S EXAMINE SOME OF PETER’S QUOTES:

    This seems like a pretty academic exercise.
    – As in ‘theoretical’? No, think “scholarly”.

    Peter: I’ll handle it, Lois. I read a book about this sort of thing once.
    Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn’t nothing?
    Peter: Oh yeah.

    What’s the point of this other than to show that people don’t speak exactly the same at different times.
    – Your future career as a spin-meister is assured.

    Chris: Dad, what’s the blow-hole for?
    Peter: I’ll tell you what it’s not for, son. And when I do, you’ll understand why I can never go back to Sea World.

    right-wing agents in the supreme court
    – Where ‘inside’ the court are they? IN the halls? IN the walls? Under the floors? Within the doors? Beside the bench? Next to a wrench? Is it one of the bailiffs? the janitor? one of Justice Ginsburg’s legal aides? Is it possible that you meant to say “ON the Supreme Court”?

    Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there’s a message in my Alphabits. It says, ‘Oooooo.’
    Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.

    Bush and Cheney (and Rumsfeld) have (had) the apparatus, technology and infrastructure of the worlds most advanced best equipped intelligence agencies
    – And as a member of the Committee on Foreign Relations and the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, SENATOR Obama does get to view intelligence reports on a regular basis.

    Dennis Miller: I don’t wanna go on a RANT here but America’s foreign policy makes about as much sense as Beowolf having sex with Robert Fulton at the first Battle of Antetum. I mean when a neo-conservative defenstrates it’s like Raskalnakov filibuster dioxymonohydrostinate.
    Peter: What the hell does RANT mean?

    – DISCLAIMER: Due to the non-specificity of his name one or two of those quotes may have originated with a different Peter.

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)


  150. Obama: “Arugula’s not the vegetable I thought I knew.”

    I have it on good knowledge that Obama FLIP FLOPS on leafy vegetables. It’s deplorable.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  151. For Icy Truth (any relation to Vanilla ICE?):

    Academic (adjective) -

    3 a: theoretical, speculative b: having no practical or useful significance

    Peter (e70d1c)

  152. Peter,

    You done googling Patterico & others? Or are you satisfied with ignorance on the issue you’re so confidently talking about?

    steve miller (724340)

  153. Perhaps Peter is daunted by the sheer amount of flip-flops by Backtrack Barack and is (quelle horreur!) trying to change the subject.

    Anything to avoid talking about the Man of Spin.

    steve miller (724340)

  154. To the lib freaks who claim this is parsing..

    Let’s listen to Obamessiah himself: “JUST WORDS?!! Was Martin Luther King’s speech JUST WORDS? Don’t tell me words don’t matter!!”

    Here ya go: Obama himself stating words matter:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mQ_eCGbdg0

    So libs, are you disagreeing with your messiah now?!

    J Fishman (8894aa)

  155. Fishman – of COURSE the answer is no.

    It’s not what Backtrack Barack says. That’s irrelevant. It’s that he is DIFFERENT.

    Foolish consistency is the hob-goblin of word-parsers.

    These same poseurs who are so unaffected by Backtrack’s changes in position would be mighty upset if the terms of their mortgages were suddenly changed by a bank claiming “5%? 8% Fixed? Variable? These are all just words.”

    steve miller (724340)

  156. Peter, why are you doing this?

    Why not start a blog and make arguments instead of doing your level best to destroy this one? Is politics just a game to you?

    All Patterico is trying to do here is collate all of Obama’s statements. It’s a legitimate enterprise that will informt he voters. He’s asking for links, and I just don’t see any injustice there. Your attempts (fairly successful) to cloud this thread with dozens of unreadable comments are an attempt to keep voters from being informed about Obama. You’re a brownshirt fascist in the service of your hero. You’re a thoughtless mindless sub-pawn, devoting hours of your life to your hamfisted effort to censor criticisms of your political party.

    What drives someone like you? Hatred or boredom?

    that said, like Ron Paul, Obama’s greatest liability is his insane supporters. This thread is a great argument against Obama. Unlike Mccain, a President Obama probably won’t answer to anyone about anything, and many actually want it that way.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  157. Having been both defenestrated and disembowled, Petey tries a lame misdirection play – rejected! Much like the duel with the Black Knight in the Holy Grail…

    Black Knight: “Where are you going?”
    Arthur: “I’ve chopped off your arms and your legs!”
    BK: “It’s just a flesh wound! Come back and fight, you coward!”

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  158. Did anyone pick up the Selma myth on Barack’s conception that he tried to peddle.

    Don’t tell me that dates don’t matter!!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)


  159. right-wing agents in the supreme court
    – Where ‘inside’ the court are they? IN the halls? IN the walls? Under the floors? Within the doors? Beside the bench? Next to a wrench? Is it one of the bailiffs? the janitor? one of Justice Ginsburg’s legal aides? Is it possible that you meant to say “ON the Supreme Court”?

    Yeah, that was pretty poorly worded on my part and in honor of one of my favorite old guys, a Scoop Jackson Democrat who recently succumbed to the big C and thought pretty well of the Roberts court, I’m going to retract that.


    – And as a member of the Committee on Foreign Relations and the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, SENATOR Obama does get to view intelligence reports on a regular basis

    It’s not as good as what the POTUS has access to as Commander in Chief, especially as proven by the somewhat exxagerated and flawed intel reports that they asked the agencies to put together before the run up to the Iraq war.


    I don’t wanna go on a RANT here but America’s foreign policy makes about as much sense as Beowolf having sex with Robert Fulton at the first Battle of Antetum.

    Anteitum is spelled A-n-t-e-i-t-u-m.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  160. He was for public campaign financing before he was against it: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2008/06/19/the-hope-for-more-loose-change/

    He was against wearing flag pins before he was for them: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2008/04/16/obama-admits-he-has-no-true-patriotism/

    He was against extended American troop presence in Iraq before he was against it… then for it again before he was against it again: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2008/04/04/obama-campaign-opposes-obama-campaigns-stance-on-iraq/

    He was for negotiating directly with Iran before he was against it: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2008/03/03/the-duplicity-of-hope/

    He was against laws favorable to lobbyists before he introduced 9 such laws to protect *his* lobbyists: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2007/07/16/obama-hates-lobbyists-unless-theyre-his-own/

    He promised constituents of Illinois that he wouldn’t run for President in 2008… before he ran for President in 2008: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2007/02/11/well-he-is-a-democrat-afterall/

    He was against Congressional “micromanagement” of the war before he was for it: http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2007/01/16/depends-on-the-definition-of-micromanage/

    TexasRainmaker (a005d2)

  161. A-n-t-e-i-t-u-m.

    Actually, you moron, it’s spelled A-N-T-I-E-T-A-M.

    If you’re going to act snottily superior (even without any legitimate basis for it), it would really help the old public image if you actually got your snotty little corrections RIGHT.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  162. I don’t wanna go on a RANT here but America’s foreign policy makes about as much sense as Beowolf having sex with Robert Fulton at the first Battle of Antetum.

    Anteitum is spelled A-n-t-e-i-t-u-m.

    No, it’s not. It’s Antietam.

    But the statement is still loonier than a mad cow on locoweed.

    nk (479e05)

  163. Loonier than a pocket full of Canadian dollar coins.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  164. Loonier than an “On Golden Pond” retrospective.

    steve miller (724340)

  165. Hot Air linked this post and it’s providing many lovely lively visitors that I know you guys are enjoying, even if you don’t act like it.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  166. Loonier than the rebels in “The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress”

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  167. Drumwaster,

    That’s subtle!

    steve miller (724340)

  168. I would almost say, “Loonier than the Yearly Kos Klaven,” but there’s nothing loonier than that. That’s the Loonster Gran Prix.

    steve miller (724340)

  169. Oh, and it’s spelled “Klavern”. Just ask Bobby Byrd.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  170. Peter’s misspelling is not an accident.

    He’s trolling. he wants you to reply, so he makes sure he says something really stupid that gets ten people to post rebuttals.

    It’s not my blog, but I’d suggest ignoring him if he claims something irrelevant to this thread. his goal is clearly to make this thread unreadable. that’s why he is ignoring all the posts noting an instance that Obama has reversed his position. Peter doesn’t want anyone thinking about that. He’s part of Obama’s grassroots campaign of stiffling dissent.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  171. Add older democratic women, and those who voted for him because he said he wanted to end the war to #14.

    wowzers (dc79ca)

  172. your right drumwaster. it is klavern. I misthunk.

    steve miller (724340)

  173. # 128 Peter:

    Yeah…you know who else barely had any experience (only 12 years in govt.)Abe Lincoln. That’s right. Abe Lincoln and that guy could hold a country together or lead a divided government or give a good speech if his life depended on it.

    Well ol’ Abe was, like many presidents, a veteran (of the Black Hawk War). (We won’t get into how Our American Cousin ended.) What’s Obambi’s military experience? None, you say? So Obambi has been a ‘community organizer’. What the hell kind of job experience is that for a Presidential candidate? Who the hell did he organize, and how did that work out for them?

    Obambi is clueless, like his jockstraps supporters.

    RickZ (8df857)


  174. What drives someone like you? Hatred or boredom?

    Mostly I just can’t stand people who wear FLIP FLOPS (!!!!!!!!!)

    ….and I can’t stand apologists and enablers for the worst President in the history of the Republic, pretending they have a leg to stand on in terms of credibility or competence. The Bush Administration created the geopolitical and economic disasters now facing this country not to mention it was the closest I ever get to living under a government listing way too far to the right (fascism). Dehumanizing and insulting those not in lock step to it’s disastrous ways. That attitude seems to still pervade the GOP and it’s laughable. It’s not going to fly anymore.It’s utter HorseSh*t. There are people in this world more deserving of your hate than American progressives and liberals and Democrats and immigrants and Hispanics and Muslims and gays and whoever else. Oh right…charismatic black guys with the nerve to not only challenge the GOP, but continually outflank it. He’s not giving the GOP an inch, so therefore the right needs to create something out of nothing and therefore these academic exercises observable here.

    You pretend to be finding words that “mean something…”yet I think we’re all clear that words represent ideas. And the ideas and vision that Obama has expressed for the country, have been consistent. There’s been some drift to the center and, believe me, I’m not going to give the guy a free ride, but so far, so good. He’s running for the President of everyone, not just Democrats. Compared to the tired political ADHD the Right is offering? There’s no contest. And not even because McCain is a bad guy. He’s just under the sad illusion that the GOP is still politically relevant in 2008 after Bush/Cheney have gutted it, and that he still somehow needs to kow tow to them.

    Laterz…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  175. I can’t stand apologists and enablers for the worst President in the history of the Republic, pretending they have a leg to stand on in terms of credibility or competence.

    Yeah… that fuckhead Carter… mumble-umble…

    “Granted that during the Carter administration the Soviets were gobbling up real estate from Afghanistan to Grenada, it is significant that in this wretched era the only loss of actual U.S. territory was to the Islamists.” — Mark Steyn

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)


  176. If you’re going to act snottily superior (even without any legitimate basis for it), it would really help the old public image if you actually got your snotty little corrections RIGHT.

    Whoops.

    My Bad.

    Peter (e70d1c)


  177. Yeah… that fuckhead Carter… mumble-umble…

    You know I’d take a Carter second term to a Bush Third term any day. The guy didn’t waste the lives of 4400 soldiers on a war having nothing to do with the war on terror. That being said, you’re barking up the wrong tree when you compare Carter to Obama. About the only thing they have in common is that they come at the end of a criminal Republican administration.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  178. Anyhow I’m not trolling here. I’m just trying to grok where you guys are coming from. But sadly, my friends, I have to go for now.

    Be well..

    Peter (e70d1c)

  179. # 185 Peter:

    You know I’d take a Carter second term to a Bush Third term any day. The guy didn’t waste the lives of 4400 soldiers on a war having nothing to do with the war on terror.

    Uhm, Jimmy helped kick start the new jihad by doing nothing when an act of war was perpetrated on us by Iran, the very same Iran with whom we are now dealing when it comes to their nuclear ambitions. I don’t know how old you are, but I can tell you didn’t live through the Carter Presidency. By far, Carter is the worse President in American history, head and shoulders above such knuckleheaded presidents as U.S. Grant and Warren G. Harding.

    You really need to get a clue and stop spouting talking points of which you, yourself, have absolutley no knowledge, either in person or through the written word.

    RickZ (8df857)

  180. I should note, for the record, that not all instances of a person changing their mind are so-called “flip-flops”. A change in position is only a flip-flop if it was made without the facts changing in such a way as to warrant the change. With a flip-flop, the only fact that must have changed is the usefulness of the change to the person making it.

    So, if Obama visits Iraq and changes his position on Iraq, that would not be a flip-flop, because the circumstances would have warranted a change.

    If one keeps to this standard, it will look less partisan and seem more credible. Changing your mind after seeing you were wrong is perfectly OK, something everyone does from time to time. Changing your mind on a dime because it only benefits you politically or personally is what needs to be the focus.

    Seixon (7e3bdc)

  181. You know I’d take a Carter second term to a Bush Third term any day.

    You are thereby proven to be too young to have been alive at any point during the Carter era. Double-digit stagflation, interest rates in the 20+% range, gas shortages and lines around the block, “national malaise” that Jimmeh said we could solve by putting on a sweater, and his “we must learn to accept that the Soviet Union is here to stay” attitude that was exactly 180 degrees away from the reality that took place less than 10 years later under Reagan/Bush.

    Throw in his incessant appeasement of the lowest sort of tinhorn dictators and half-baked despots whose only common thread is that they all hate the US and that Jimmeh is treated like a conquering hero, despite having been proven wrong on every single policy decision he ever made (almost 30 years ago).

    He even said that Saddam Hussein’s last election was “legitimate”, despite the fact that there was no other candidate on the ballot, the only question was a “Yes/No” (Shall Saddam be reelected to another ten-year term as “President-For-Life”?), and the voters had to have their names and addresses at the bottom of their ballots, and the ballots were checked off a master list.

    The amazing part wasn’t the 99.7% of the vote that he got. The amazing thing is that that 3/10 of a percent actually had the balls to say “no” under those circumstances. That fact is why I have no worries about Iraq becoming a powerful and democratic nation and ally.

    But Jimmeh said it was a legitimate election.

    He appeased Kim Jong Il. He appeased Yassir Arafat. He appeased the Soviets (his response to the USSR invading Afghanistan? Boycott the 1980 Olympics!).

    The most reviled President in History.

    But at least he was a Naval officer and Governor of a State for a term. Obama doesn’t even have THAT much.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  182. “why spend so much time creating flip flops?”

    Was this to the people here? really? Should ask BO that one

    Lord Nazh (899dce)

  183. Peter wrote:

    You know I’d take a Carter second term to a Bush Third term any day. The guy didn’t waste the lives of 4400 soldiers on a war having nothing to do with the war on terror.

    Uh huh. The funny thing is, there have been NO terror attacks on the USA since he declared it! Whodathunk on the morning of 9/12/01 that waging war on the “wrong” country would have resulted in ZERO follow-up terrorist attacks coming up on seven years later!

    That being said, you’re barking up the wrong tree when you compare Carter to Obama.

    I agree. When Carter ran, he was a Navy veteran with executive experience as Governor of Georgia.

    Obviously, that resume didn’t translate into Carter being a decent President. But is Carter’s failure an argument for someone with NO relevant experience whatsoever?

    L.N. Smithee (a0b21b)

  184. nk wrote: No, it’s not. It’s Antietam.

    You sillies. It’s “Auntie Em!”

    L.N. Smithee (a0b21b)

  185. {…chorus of “La Vie Boheme A” running through my mind right now…}

    {…wondering how many people will catch the reference…}

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  186. “You know I’d take a Carter second term to a Bush Third term any day…”

    The most ironic thing about that statement is that it’s directly lifted from the Obama campaign at present, but consider:

    - Obama’s now for the enactment of FISA;
    - he’s thisclose to reversing his immediate Iraq troop pullout demand;
    - he’s now a big – time supporter for allowing citizens to own firearms;
    - forgettabout his earlier support for no restrictions on late – term abortions;
    - completely in support of NAFTA exactly the way it stands at present;
    - etc., etc.

    Which leads us to the question of exactly how are Obama’s present positions dramatically different from Bush’s right now?

    (crickets chirping)

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  187. There is no other viable leftist candidate. Obama can move to the center right if he wants – he might lose 0.0000001% of the electorate if he does, but he will gain all the woozy conservatives who like a bright smile.

    All the stamping of tiny feet on the left – it’s Kabuki theatre. They won’t abandon him.

    He can change his mind about the third rail of liberalism – Abortion – and he still won’t lose NARAL.

    steve miller (724340)

  188. This one’s a bit of a stretch, but its a flip flop on political support for the ethanol industry. In this first statement made by Sen Obama during the Democratic primary, he warns that Sen Clinton may wither in her support for the ethanol industry:

    It’s hard to believe that she is a strong ethanol supporter given her track record and this is something that represents a major reversal and what we need is consistency on these issues. … If she’s willing to shift this quickly on this issue, we don’t know whether she will shift back when it gets hard.

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/06/obama-clinton-made-a-major-reversal-on-ethanol/

    Then in May, Sen Obama shifts away from ethanol industry when it ‘got hard’.

    What I’ve said is my top priority is making sure people are able to get enough to eat. If it turns out we need to make changes in our ethanol policy to help people get something to eat, that has got to be the step we take.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/04/politics/main4069221.shtml

    Maybe he’s aleady flipped back on this. Who can keep track?

    Glenn Halpern (6507dc)

  189. Which leads us to the question of exactly how are Obama’s present positions dramatically different from Bush’s right now?

    Too bad the Republicans couldn’t be bothered to field a candidate this cycle…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  190. Glenn, isn’t ADM among Obama’s backers?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  191. Glenn, that’s the purpose of this list: to keep track.

    It’s exhausting, but since the media can’t do it BRITNEY! JESSICA! PARIS! HILLARY! it is up to us to document the incessant changes in Backtrack’s “core principles.”

    steve miller (724340)

  192. I’m a lifelong Chicagoan, and among the O – Man’s largest campaign contributors is the agribusiness giant downstate, ADM:

    http://politicalcenter.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/25/1602793-the-unbearably-false-claim-that-obama-is-not-beholding-to-special-interests

    Have to give McCain credit on this issue – starting way back when it was quite difficult to do so, he started railng against the ethanol subsidies, even risking the wrath of the Iowa voters who basically torpedoed his campaign in 2000:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/opinion/26brooks.html

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  193. In case you also want to collect sudden changes in Obama’s staff:

    SAMANTHA POWER

    Power was a Pulitzer Prize winner, Harvard professor, and self-described “genocide chick” when she became Obama’s senior foreign policy adviser. In this February 16, 2008 interview, Power reflected on how she came to join the Obama campaign:

    How did you end up working for Sen. Obama?

    His office called me when he began serving in the U.S. Senate in early 2005. He had just read “A Problem From Hell” and wanted to meet to discuss fixing American foreign policy. I thought, “Well that’s interesting — clearly he’s in some other league.” I mean, who spends Christmas reading a dark book on genocide? No other politician had ever contacted me to discuss it.

    We were supposed to meet for only an hour but ended up meeting for three or four hours at a steakhouse. Suddenly it was almost midnight and I heard myself saying to him, “Why don’t I just quit my job at Harvard and work in your office for a year or whatever?” I didn’t even know what I was proposing, but he said, “Great.”

    Samantha Power resigned in March 2008 after calling Hillary Clinton a ‘monster’:

    Of course I regret them, I can’t even believe they came out of my mouth. The campaign was getting very tense, and I — in every public appearance I’ve ever made talking about Senator Clinton, I have sung her praises as the leader she’s been, the intellect. She’s also incredibly warm, funny. I’ve spent time with her. I think that I just had a very weak moment in seeing some of the tactics, it seems, that were getting employed. I was just afraid really that the campaign would not stay at the level it had been on and I let out in a wave of frustration.

    Video at the second link.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  194. DRJ quoted Samantha Power on meeting with Obama:

    We were supposed to meet for only an hour but ended up meeting for three or four hours at a steakhouse. Suddenly it was almost midnight and I heard myself saying to him, “Why don’t I just quit my job at Harvard and work in your office for a year or whatever?” I didn’t even know what I was proposing, but he said, “Great.”

    Oh, brother. Maybe schtuff like this is why he thinks he can charm Ahmedinejad.

    L.N. Smithee (a0b21b)

  195. LN,

    It gets worse. Read this from a 2007 Rolling Stone article in which Power describes what it’s like to work with Obama:

    “He pushes so hard on policy ideas that fifteen minutes after you’ve started talking, he’s sent you back to the drawing board. He doesn’t get weighted down by the limits of American power, but he sees you have to grasp those limits in order to transcend them.

    Can you translate that for me? I get the general idea but it sounds suspiciously like something kids write on high school history exams.

    Here’s another from the candidate himself:

    Over the past two years, Obama has come to adopt this worldview as his own. He came back fascinated from a quick trip to a U.S. project in Ethiopia, where American soldiers had parachuted in to help the victims of a flood: “By investing now,” he said, “we avoid an Iraq or Afghanistan later.” The foreign-policy initiatives he has fought for and passed have followed this model: He has secured money to fight avian flu, improve security in the Congo and safeguard Russian nuclear weapons.

    I may be wrong but this sounds like Kennedy as he ordered an increased American presence in Vietnam. I’m not being critical – I think Eisenhower and Kennedy were right to provide assistance to Vietnam – but Power and Obama seem to think they are reinventing the wheel when it comes to foreign affairs.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  196. wmd has a list of 25 with links/video.

    OOOOOPS: i turned away for a minute and now it’s up to 31!

    USE THIS AND SCROLL DOWN

    http://massdiscussion.blogspot.com/search/label/Obama

    reliapundit (c01270)

  197. #158 – Peter

    For Icy Truth (any relation to Vanilla ICE?)
    – It stands for “I-See-Truth”; it may not be humble but, in your case at least, it can be accurate.

    Academic (adjective) – a: theoretical, speculative b: having no practical or useful significance
    – I acknowledged that I know what it means; and then I told you that you were wrong.

    #166 -

    Anteitum is spelled A-n-t-e-i-t-u-m
    – As others have pointed out, that is not correct either. However, I do apologize for not running a spell-check on those quotes I grabbed from a Family Guy fan site.

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  198. A list from 4-21-08 thru today.

    List with links here
    http://redstate.com/stories/elections/2008/on_the_absurdity_of_being_shocked_to_see_a_weather_vane_shift_with_the_wind

    1. Taking union money—was against, now for;
    2. Public financing—was for, now against;
    3. Lifting the Cuba embargo—was for, now against;
    4. Cracking down on illegal immigrant employers—was against, now for;
    5. Telecom immunity in the FISA—was against, now for;
    6. D.C. gun ban—was for, now against;
    7. Taking Big Oil money—says he’s against, but takes money from Big Oil execs;
    8. NAFTA—was against, now for; and
    9. Death penalty—was against, now for.
    http://getliberty.org/blog/the_radical_waffling_true-believing_flip-flopping_obama/

    Obama Flip-Flops on D.C. School Voucher Program – Now Intends to Squash it
    June 25, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com)

    Yet Another Obama Flip Flop, Now On Abortion
    Posted on July 3, 2008

    Obama: I Don’t Like Post-Viability Abortions for Mental Health Reasons — But I Vote for Laws and Supreme Court Justices Who Do
    http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/

    Obama backs late, mental-health abortion [Obama changes position on late-term abortions ... again]
    The Swamp ^ | July 5, 2008 | Frank James
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2041521/posts

    Yet Another Flip-Flop On Tradehttp://redstate.com/stories/elections/2008/yet_another_flip_flop_on_trade
    http://redstate.com/stories/elections/2008/flip_flopping_on_trade_the_fun_continues
    http://www.chequer-board.net/story/2008/5/6/223249/2481

    List
    Barack Obama is a man for all seasons, Charles Krauthammer

    New game: Try to figure out what the Obama campaign thinks about Iraq
    http://redstate.com/blogs/soren_dayton/2008/jul/03/new_game_try_to_figure_out_what_the_obama_campaign_thinks_about_iraq

    Obama Makes Huge Flip-Flop on Iraq
    http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/07/03/obama-makes-huge-flip-flop-on-iraq/

    http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080704_Is_his_campaign_dishonest_or_disorganized_.html
    NYT Editorial Bashes Obama’s Recent Flip-flops
    By Noel Sheppard | July 4, 2008 – 10:25 ET
    Newsbusters.org

    NYT shocked to find a politician instead of a virgin
    posted at 9:11 am on July 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

    Attempts to defend Obama’s shift on Iraq lack logic, seriousness, chronology
    http://redstate.com/blogs/jeff_emanuel/2008/jul/07/attempts_to_defend_obamas_shift_on_iraq_lack_logic_seriousness

    Obama rewrites Iraq plan
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11517.html

    Iraq
    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/267877.php
    With cites from his website
    http://stuckon-stupid.com/2008/07/03/the-flip-flopping-obama-rama-then-and-now-refining-withdrawal/
    http://patterico.com/2008/07/03/the-mother-of-all-flip-flops-is-now-upon-us-just-as-predicted/

    http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/06/25/shocker-obama-also-disagrees-with-idiotic-supreme-court-decision/

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121443823260805375.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/06/obama_reneges_on_public_financ.html

    Obama on Public Financing

    Posted by: Amanda Carpenter at 9:36 AM
    If Obama isn’t going to follow through on his promise to use the public financing system he should immediately remove his name as co-sponsor of the Fair Elections Now Act and the Presidential Funding Act of 2007–two bills to enact public financing laws.

    This is very simple: If Obama isn’t willing to use public financing for his own race, he shouldn’t have his name plastered on a bill to subject future candidates to those restrictions.
    http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/ebb1945a-a299-4cf4-a963-d2cd44973f53

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=298769662128800

    Obama Voted For Bush/Cheney Energy Bill, Written In Secret By Industry Lobbyists
    http://www.obamaunveiled.com/energypolicy.htm

    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/11/wsj-the-new-barack-obama-plan-for-housing/

    Obama Has Same Corporate Insiders He Regularly Blasts
    Judicial Watch ^ | June 9, 2008
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2028507/posts

    Israel
    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=26836
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2026863/posts
    http://www.redstate.com/blogs/soren_dayton/2008/jun/05/obama_caves_under_palestinean_pressure
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212659672984&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

    Obama Was For Gay Marriage Before He Was Against It Before He Was For It Again
    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/267728.php

    Iran
    MAY 19, 2008
    OBAMA GETS WHIPLASH
    Barack Obama, last night in Portland, on Iran: “They don’t pose a serious threat to us.”
    Barack Obama, today, in Billings, Montana, on Iran: “I’ve made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave.”
    Can someone explain why it is, exactly, that Barack Obama is not a laughingstock?
    Posted by John at 6:53 PM | |
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/05/020554.php

    http://constitutionallyright.com/2008/05/20/obama-and-the-two-irans/

    Surprise: Barack Obama Now Proud to Wear the Flag Pin to Show His Patriotism and Support of Veterans
    Posted by Ace at 01:38 PM http://www.ace.mu.nu

    Gas tax break
    In Illinois in 2000, Sen. Obama voted for a six-month, five-percentage point break on the state’s 6.25% gas sales tax.
    By NICK TIMIRAOS
    April 24, 2008; Page A5

    Research more here:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/obamatruthfile/index?tab=articles

    bias fighter (b4b37e)

  199. Samantha Powers resigned after her unfortunate loss of composure, but there are few as brilliant and passionate about foreign policy. I’m hoping she will have a place in Obama’s administration if he wins.

    RE: Carter

    I was around when he was President and old enough to understand what a miserable time it was. You guys are right. It was bloody awful on every front. The guy couldn’t seem to get anything right. Especially the Iranian hostages rescue which was a fiasco. Every day the hostages were in captivity sucked and when the Soviets attacked Afghanistan I thought for sure the world did not have too long left.

    I was thrilled when Reagan took over in 1980 with a majority in both the house and senate (or was that ’84). I thought he was cool and he was a lot of fun to watch give speeches and things starting finally working right again. Anyhow I eventually come to the point where his stance got a bit much, and I again began to wonder how long the world had, although, putting Iran-Contra aside, and to his credit, he handled Glasnost very well. AS did H.W. Bush. Never rubbing the Soviets faces in it and just being patient and letting it take its course. That’s competence.

    All that being said..and I’m going to put on my FLIP FLOPS here (!!!!) so stand back, there’s no way I would want another Carter term because , let’s face it: Carter’s second and third term were George W. Bush 2000 and 2004. Another man who simply could not get anything right leaving with disaster and incompetence as his legacy.

    He is worse than Carter though, if that’s possible, because after Sept. 11; everyone I knew in my city (NYC) and all over the country from every political point on the spectrum, ethnicity and whatever was behind W. Bush 110% on anything he thought we should do to neutralize the threat of terror from Al Quaeda. He could’ve said folks W”e need to gear up to take apart AQ and the Taliban and we need you in uniform” and I’m sure as many guys (and women this time) as after Pearl Harbor would’ve shown up at a sign up center. He could’ve said folks, “We need to use less gas to end our dependence on Middle East oil and challenge that the country develop new forms of energy and create new technologies new jobs a whole new industry and funded it. He could’ve even mixed an initiative like that with a request like: Let’s open up ANWAR and offshore and build refineries and cut off the flow of dollars to Militant Islam extremist. He would’ve been handed it (any of it, all of it) on a silver platter with a bow on top with the best wishes and commitment of the country, so what did he do instead? He said:

    Go shopping.

    That’s it. The country was facing a mortal enemy and one of the most disturbing moments in it’s history and instead of asking that we DO SOMETHING to help, he said: Go shopping.

    Then in order to punish AQ and Bin Laden and the Saudi’s who comprised the hi-jackers he declared war on:

    Iraq

    who had no connections to AQ. Saddam was a sworn enemy of BIn Laden and had long crocked up whatever WMD’s he had been given or potential programs before even the first Gulf War. Although he liked to talk tough and really what do you expect from a despot and a tyrant and a bully. A big mouth. No surprises there. The INspectors were there. Hans Blix repeatedly stated he didn’t think there were WMDs. The French, Germans also said there were no WMDs. Israel said…well I don’t think they commented but does anyone in their right mind think that if Saddam had had WMDs the Israel’s wouldn’t have bombed it’s facilities bakc to the stone age?

    The other thing he, Bush decided to do was play politics with the threat of terror as an excuse for more political capital. He and Rove tried and almost succeeded in securing POTUS and the Congress for the GOP forever. And making the country a theocracy in everything but name for Fundy Evangelicals.

    Some would like to attribute the fact that we haven’t been attacked since 911 (although we were and it was an Anthrax attack shortly thereafter) as proof that Bush’s plan worked. I say poppy-cock. The only reason we haven’t been attacked is because AQ was never the global threat that Bush built them up to be and they’re not stupid enough to do anything that would lessen the WTC attacks. Bush created this biblical foe of epic proportions and than he just lost interest in them. He let a bunch of Islamofascist losers turn their organization into the baddest thing since Atilla the hun, when what wasn’t needed were big cowboy speeches, but some nice effective military operations that spoke in a different way.

    So Carter’s second and third term: That’s George W. Bush and what a miserable time it’s been.

    A victory for Obama would make this country go from looking like one whose best days (in terms of human rights and justice) in the past to one that is so far ahead of the pack it’s F*cking scary, because a country capable of this sort of democracy in action is a limber and powerful beast that can react to danger and heal itself and adapt. And there can be no worse thing than watching your enemy get smarter and more effective.

    I don’t think Obama is a dove. SO enough of that talk. You can see it when he speaks that there’s real substance and a dogged fierceness. On top of it he’s a quick study and probably the smartest person to hold the job since Clinton, and say what you will, but Clinton understood a lot of issues better than the experts.

    So think of Obama as Clinton’s third term w/o the baggage.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  200. Peter, why do you write so many falsehoods? Is the purpose to discredit yourself for being so uninformed or to discredit yourself for being so dishonest?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  201. “…in action is a limber and powerful beast that can react to danger and heal itself and adapt.”

    So now we’ve reached the final endgame of this asshattery; Obama’s now apparently become Mystique of “X – Men.”

    “You can see it when he speaks that there’s real substance and a dogged fierceness.”

    You know, once I heard Chrissy Matthews declare his peculiarly – phrased affection for Obama, I’d thought I’d heard it all…but this is akin to asking Obama if you can carry your lovechild.

    Seriously, dude – do you ever actually look at your comments in preview before you post them? This has to be the worst parody ever – if not, then please stay away from sharp objects in the near future. And also remember not to run with scissors.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  202. I was around when he was President and old enough to understand what a miserable time it was. You guys are right. It was bloody awful on every front. The guy couldn’t seem to get anything right. Especially the Iranian hostages rescue which was a fiasco. Every day the hostages were in captivity sucked and when the Soviets attacked Afghanistan I thought for sure the world did not have too long left.

    Mmmm, boy, gimme more o’ that…

    The only reason we haven’t been attacked is because AQ was never the global threat that Bush built them up to be and they’re not stupid enough to do anything that would lessen the WTC attacks.

    Al Qaeda was enough of a global threat to have attacked US interests all over Asia and Africa, not to mention carrying out an attack right here on US soil that proved that America was a “paper tiger”. Khobar Towers, African embassies, and culimnating with the USS Cole.

    I would say that any power that can sink a warship of another nation and destroyed protected buildings simultaneously in widely separated locations is a global threat, no matter how little actual territory they control.

    It is not real estate, but influence.

    We fought them in exactly the right way: deny them a refuge, cut off their funding, expose their ideology, take out the leaders and never let them rest long enough to regroup. Hit them where they think they are the safest.

    THAT is why we haven’t been hit again.

    Proof of this will come when Democrats ever hold the White House again, because they will send out FBI agents rather than the 10th Armored Division and missile strikes against empty tents and aspirin factories rather than actually using the tactics that work.

    Hans Blix repeatedly stated he didn’t think there were WMDs.

    This is a lie. His report repeatedly confirmed that Saddam was violating the rules and refusing to cooperate. (You do understand where the burden of compliance lay, don’t you?) Every intelligence service from the CIA to the Papal See agreed that Saddam had them. Even his own generals thought so.

    Besides, I have yet to have anyone who throws this meme up be able to correctly answer this simple question: what kind of classes of weapons fall under the category of WMD?

    I was thrilled when Reagan took over in 1980 with a majority in both the house and senate

    Really? Is that how you remember that election?

    If you remember events this clearly, would you care to reconsider your earlier assertions?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)


  203. Peter, why do you write so many falsehoods? Is the purpose to discredit yourself for being so uninformed or to discredit yourself for being so dishonest?

    Depends. What is the sound of one hand clapping?

    Peter (e70d1c)


  204. Really? Is that how you remember that election?

    If you remember events this clearly, would you care to reconsider your earlier assertions?

    Which ones?

    Peter (e70d1c)

  205. What is the sound of one hand clapping?

    Mu.

    Which ones?

    Given how badly you misremember things, I would have to say… oh… ALL OF THEM.

    HTH

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  206. Some more lies that Peter wrote: “He is worse than Carter though, if that’s possible, because after Sept. 11; everyone I knew in my city (NYC) and all over the country from every political point on the spectrum, ethnicity and whatever was behind W. Bush 110% on anything he thought we should do to neutralize the threat of terror from Al Quaeda.

    As has been shown, there was opposition to the operation to clear Afghanistan notably MoveOn.org.

    “Then in order to punish AQ and Bin Laden and the Saudi’s who comprised the hi-jackers he declared war on: Iraq “Another lie as those were not the reasons put forward for the Iraq operation.

    Peter’s version of the Reagan administration is just freakin’ comical.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  207. #207 – Peter

    I was thrilled when Reagan took over in 1980 with a majority in both the house and senate (or was that ‘84).
    – Prior to 1994, the last time there was a Republican majority in the House was in 1954.

    [Bush] and Rove tried and almost succeeded in securing POTUS and the Congress for the GOP forever. And making the country a theocracy in everything but name for Fundy Evangelicals.
    – Talk about buying into the talking points!

    Some would like to attribute the fact that we haven’t been attacked since 911 (although we were and it was an Anthrax attack shortly thereafter) as proof that Bush’s plan worked.
    – The anthrax attacks (note the small “a”; we weren’t attacked by the band named Anthrax) were almost certainly the work of domestic terrorists, probably of the survivalist-militia type.

    The only reason we haven’t been attacked is because AQ was never the global threat that Bush built them up to be and they’re not stupid enough to do anything that would lessen the WTC attacks.
    – So, they’ve never been a global threat even though they’ve carried out attacks on FOUR continents, but if they were (hypothetically) a global threat they would never even attempt something big that would dilute the impact of their crowning achievement . . . such as when they plotted to plunge a bunch of trans-Atlantic flights into the ocean.

    Bush created this biblical foe of epic proportions and than he just lost interest in them.
    – HOW did he “create” them?

    He let a bunch of Islamofascist losers turn their organization into the baddest thing since Atilla the hun
    – Bush is responsible for al-Qaeda? But wait a second. If they’re “the baddest thing since Attila the hun” (two “t”s and one “l”) that means they are a global threat after all!

    On top of it he’s a quick study and probably the smartest person to hold the job since Clinton
    – Let’s see … what job is it that Obama holds now and was previously held by Clinton? Well, if you’re talking about Hillary it would be ‘Democratic front-runner’; if you’re talking about Bill it would be ‘presumptive nominee’. So what’s the big deal? One would hope that the Democratic nominee turns out to be smarter than John Kerry.

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  208. The incoherence … it should hurt more.

    SPQR (26be8b)


  209. As has been shown, there was opposition to the operation to clear Afghanistan notably MoveOn.org.

    There can be no doubt that Bush had the country behind him following 911. Your response means nothing.


    “Then in order to punish AQ and Bin Laden and the Saudi’s who comprised the hi-jackers he declared war on: Iraq “Another lie as those were not the reasons put forward for the Iraq operation.

    Again parsing this incorrectly and using the flimsiest of logic to retort. I never said that was the stated reason. It was the underlying reasoning, but as we all know the war in Iraq was based on the lies that Saddam had active WMDs and was in the process of seeking to develop Bio Chem and Nuclear weapons through the refinement of Yellowcake obtained from Niger. Plus Saddam was involved in 911 and had ties to AQ. Both demonstrably false and still false. (and going into Iraq was then and is still now a strategic catastrophe of profound truly criminal misjudgment). And the GOP is going to pay the political price for it in Nov. regardless of how many FLIP FLOPS (!!!) you guys can make up. And I notice the mighty river of Flip Floppery has dried up. Hmmm… You guys better get crackin’ and find some more because McCain needs as much as he can get.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  210. Peter, my response means nothing? That’s just more of your incoherence. Your statements are just objectively false.

    You have no basis for your claim that the “underlying reasoning” was as you state. You are just making up stuff. The bipartisan intel committee reports list connections between Al Queda and Saddam. Your claim that the concerns about WMD are lies also, even the most recent congressional reports released last month reflect that our national intelligence did support the claim that Saddam was in possession of active WMD programs.

    You are just another Bush basher who has to rewrite history, invent false “facts” and generally lie to support your fantasies.

    SPQR (26be8b)


  211. I was thrilled when Reagan took over in 1980 with a majority in both the house and senate (or was that ‘84).
    – Prior to 1994, the last time there was a Republican majority in the House was in 1954.

    True. about the House. My mistake, but I’m amazed you don’t know that Reagan brought 12 seats into the Senate with him in 1980 and it was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had a majority. You should read up a bit.

    And I was thrilled in 1980. I despised the Carter years, but the Bush II years have been like Carter to the nth power. At least Carter didn’t spit on the constitution every chance he got and claim Exec power to break the law and infringe on congressional oversight. Nor, I’m sure did he have such a blatantly partisan corrupt DOJ.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  212. Yes, Peter, you were thrilled and confused.

    And still are.

    SPQR (26be8b)


  213. [Bush] and Rove tried and almost succeeded in securing POTUS and the Congress for the GOP forever. And making the country a theocracy in everything but name for Fundy Evangelicals.
    – Talk about buying into the talking points!

    If the shoes fit, babe. This WH played the fundy’s like a piano and you know they played the fear card every chance they got in 2003, 2004 to manipulate and scare voters against the Democrats. Either you remember or you are a liar.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  214. No, Peter, you are the liar. There has been no attempt to make the country a theocracy. That is just more complete fabrication on your part.

    Amusingly, Obama just this last week endorsed the idea of faith-based initiatives.

    SPQR (26be8b)


  215. Bush created this biblical foe of epic proportions and than he just lost interest in them.
    – HOW did he “create” them?

    God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.
    – George W Bush, according to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas

    Peter (e70d1c)

  216. Lies, lies and more lies connecting AQ and Iraq. (Remember AQ wasn’t presence with ties to Saddam. It established itself after the war began):

    2002

    Rice, Sept. 25: “There clearly are contacts between al-Qaeda and Iraq that can be documented; there clearly is testimony that some of the contacts have been important contacts and that there’s a relationship here. … And there are some al-Qaeda personnel who found refuge in Baghdad.”

    Bush, Oct. 7: “We know that Iraq and the al-Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy — the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al-Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade” and “we’ve learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases.”

    2003

    Bush, State of the Union address, Jan. 28: “And this Congress and the American people must recognize another threat. Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qaeda.”

    Bush, Feb. 6: “Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al-Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al-Qaeda” and “Iraq has also provided al-Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training.”

    2004

    Cheney, Jan. 21: “I continue to believe — I think there’s overwhelming evidence that there was a connection between al-Qaeda and the Iraqi government. I’m very confident that there was an established relationship there.”

    Peter (e70d1c)

  217. Peter, that’s incoherent. That is you being “non responsive”.

    I suggest you quit cutting and pasting talking points you don’t understand.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  218. Peter, even the partisan report released last month confirms contacts between Iraq and Al Queda.

    “(U) Postwar information supports prewar assessments and statements that Abu Musab al Zarqawi was in Baghdad and that al-Qa’ida was present in northern Iraq.”

    SPQR (26be8b)

  219. My mistake, but I’m amazed you don’t know that Reagan brought 12 seats into the Senate with him in 1980 and it was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had a majority

    I did know that. If the Senate had any control over the writing of the budget, that might have been more helpful. But that isn’t what you claimed earlier.

    I despised the Carter years, but the Bush II years have been like Carter to the nth power.

    Then you don’t remember the Carter years. It’s as simple as that. There is not a single domestic nor foreign datum that is even remotely similar, except for the Democrats controlling Congress, and fuel prices shooting through the roof.

    And the Democrats wanting to surrender to the enemy at the earliest opportunity (preferably, before we actually find the nerve to WIN the damned war).

    And them blaming everything on the Republicans.

    And Europe hating the US.

    Etc.

    But our policies are vastly different, and the actual results are similarly different.

    Instead of the Soviets taking over Afghanistan and the Dems doing not a damned thing, Bush managed to free Afghanistan. Instead of the terror groups attacking everywhere they wish on an almost daily basis, they are on the run and scrambling for cover.

    50 million people are freed that were so cruelly oppressed the last time Billy Jeff got to zip up in the Oval Office bathroom are now free, allowed to decide their destiny for the first time EVER. Libya has surrendered its own nuclear weapons program (oddly enough, those particular negotiations started the day after we kicked in the door on Iraq).

    The country has not been attacked in almost seven years, despite numerous attempts. Al Qaeda has been kicked out of Mosul and is on the run yet again.

    Carter would have recommended that we turn down the temperatures on our hot water heaters.

    (Oh, wait…)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)


  220. The bipartisan intel committee reports list connections between Al Queda and Saddam. Your claim that the concerns about WMD are lies also, even the most recent congressional reports released last month reflect that our national intelligence did support the claim that Saddam was in possession of active WMD programs.

    The quality of the intelligence is highly questionable when the VP is breathing down the CIA’s neck and demanding that the intelligence show that Iraq has active WMD programs, but we’ll lay that aside for now, because as we all know…no active WMDs were ever found.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  221. Peter, bipartisan intel committee reports confirmed that there was no evidence of “the VP is breathing down the CIA’s neck and demanding that the intelligence show that Iraq has active WMD programs”. That is another fabrication on your part.

    Amusing how much lying trolls like you have to do to substantiate your allegations of lying.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  222. no active WMDs were ever found.

    You can’t even define WMD, so how can you assert something about which you have no information?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  223. Quoting Abbas?

    a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    You’ve got to be kidding.

    But seriously – this is a way to distract from Backtrack Barack’s flip-flops. You’re letting Peter hijack the thread.

    Stay on tangent, please.

    steve miller (724340)


  224. I suggest you quit cutting and pasting talking points you don’t understand.

    Well, you guys want proof what better way then from the administrations own words to the press. Word for word. So you can’t twist it around. And BTW those quotes connecting Saddam to AQ are from the AP via USA TODAY.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  225. Peter, even the partisan report released last month admits that there was evidence for the claims about Iraq connections with Al Queda pre-war. The partisan report confirms that the CIA had pre-war intelligence from a defector that described the WMD training for Al Queda by Iraq. That intel was not recanted until after the war even by the Democrats’ partisan version of events.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  226. sigh

    steve miller (724340)


  227. You can’t even define WMD, so how can you assert something about which you have no information?

    Drummy get a grip…re-up on the meds you’re beginning to get too silly.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  228. Peter, trolls like yourself really should not make “meds” jokes. Not until you do a better job of distinguishing yourself from MKDP/Petrano.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  229. Peter’s here to distract.

    steve miller (724340)

  230. Drummy get a grip…re-up on the meds you’re beginning to get too silly.

    “Prove me wrong”, he said simply.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  231. “I was elected yesterday. I have never set foot in the U.S. Senate. I’ve never worked in Washington. And the notion that somehow I’m immediately going to start running for higher office just doesn’t make sense. So look, I can unequivocally say I will not be running for national office in four years.” – Barack Obama, 11/4/04

    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/11/04/obama_will_not_run_in_2008.html

    Josh Painter (4f1f47)

  232. Obama doesn’t look all that smart once you get him off his prepared speech. That is when he waffles and flip flops…

    He may be smart, but either he is trying to hard to please the immediate audience or he is so inexperienced that he has no idea what his position “should be”.
    Maybe both

    SteveG (71dc6f)


  233. Peter, even the partisan report released last month admits that there was evidence for the claims about Iraq connections with Al Queda pre-war. The partisan report confirms that the CIA had pre-war intelligence from a defector that described the WMD training for Al Queda by Iraq. That intel was not recanted until after the war even by the Democrats’ partisan version of events.

    Sorry SPQR, again with the lies…The administration cited defector Hussein Kamel’s former position as head of WMD development as proof they still had WMD without mentioning that he said in 1995 that “Iraq does not possess any weapons of mass destruction.”

    If that wasn’t enough the report categorically denies that any of the intelligence actually supported statements make by Bush, Cheney, Rice or Rumsfeld at varying times:

    -That Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training.

    -That Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States.

    -That the the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.

    -that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried.

    -That the Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.

    On top of it even though the Minority opinion didn’t dispute the conclusions of the report, they tried to discredit it and prevent its release.

    How many more lies can you stand? It’s all about discrediting and suppression for you guys isn’t it?

    I’m sorta embarrassed you would even bring this report up….

    Peter (e70d1c)

  234. Peter, you should be embarrassed that you can’t even keep straight what you are describing. In this case, the discussion of Al Queda / Iraq ties.

    From the partisan hack report released by Democrats last week:
    “No postwar information has been found that indicates Iraq provided chemical and biological weapons training to al-Qa’ida. The detainee who provided the key prewar reporting about this training recanted his claims after the war. In 2004, Ibn Shaykh al-Libi recanted his earlier statements about biological and chemical weapons training.”

    So there was evidence of the connections between Al Queda and Iraq when the statements were made by the Bush administration.

    So once again, you are the one making stuff up.

    But I forgot, you are a dishonest troll whose purpose is to distract from the actual topic of the thread.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  235. Okay enough, I don’t want to hijack the thread you guys have your work cut out for you discrediting and smearing and suppressing information and most importantly finding that Obama Flip Floppery so get to it I say! Here I’ll get you started again:

    One time Barack Obama went swimming in the ocean and one of his FLIP FlOPS floated out to sea. It was never seen again and he had to buy new ones because walking around with just one FLIP FLOP at the beach looks kinda retarded.

    Good night.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  236. If that wasn’t enough the report categorically denies that any of the intelligence actually supported statements make by Bush, Cheney, Rice or Rumsfeld at varying times:

    You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. The Rockefeller Report concluded that Bush did not lie, and that the intel “generally supported” the conclusions drawn by Bush and his staff. Start to finish, Bush was proven right.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  237. FlIP

    SPQR:

    Peter, even the partisan report released last month

    FLOP

    SPQR:

    From the partisan hack report released by Democrats last week

    In record time, nonetheless. Okay now I’m really going. Really good night. Have fun with your project.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  238. Peter, wow, I wrote week instead of month. That soooo discredits me.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  239. “Last month”, and “last week” are synonymous for the time period of this thread. Today is the last day for which this will be true until next month. (It could arguably be extended until about Friday, but I’m a purist.)

    Moron.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  240. New York Times, June 6 2008:

    The report on Iraq on Thursday was especially critical of statements by the president and vice president linking Iraq to Al Qaeda and raising the possibility that Mr. Hussein might supply the terrorist group with unconventional weapons. “Representing to the American people that the two had an operational partnership and posed a single, indistinguishable threat was fundamentally misleading and led the nation to war on false premises,” Mr. Rockefeller wrote.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  241. * McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/18/mccains-offshore-drilling_n_107872.html?page=7

    * McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2325567620080624?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

    * McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.
    http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15781.html

    * McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)
    http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15863.html

    * McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/10/mccain-flips-on-abortion_n_101115.html

    * McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.
    http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15825.html

    * He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”
    http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15864.html

    * McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.
    http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/now-mccain-is-flip-flopping-on-judges.html

    RyanD. (92ad5b)

  242. Jay Rockefeller:

    There has also been some debate over how “imminent” a threat Iraq poses. I do believe that Iraq poses an imminent threat, but I also believe that after September 11, the question is increasingly outdated. It is in the nature of these weapons, and the way they are targeted against civilian populations, that documented capability and demonstrated intent may be the only warning we get. To insist on further evidence could put some of our fellow Americans at risk. Can we afford to take that chance? We cannot!

    Rockefeller lying us into war. Who knew that Karl Rove’s mind control was so powerful? Peter, apparently.

    Hoystory (b9390a)

  243. FLIP: As a candidate for the U.S. Senate four years ago, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use or possession, according to a videotape of a little noticed debate that was obtained by The Washington Times.

    “I think we need to rethink and DECRIMINALIZE (emphasize added) our marijuana laws,” Obama said during a debate at Northwestern University in 2004. “But I’m not somebody who believes in legalization of marijuana.”

    FLOP: But, during last fall’snationally televised presidential debate, Obama hesitantly raised his hand and joined with most of his Democratic rivals to declare that he OPPOSED DECRIMINALIZING (emphasize added) marijuana.

    Asked about the two different answers, Mr. Obama’s presidential campaign said he in fact has “always” supported decriminalizing marijuana as he answered in 2004, meaning the candidate mistakenly raised his hand during the presidential debate last fall.

    Is this like pressing PRESENT?

    Obama Gems (0eda31)

  244. #220 – Peter

    True. about the House. My mistake, but I’m amazed you don’t know that Reagan brought 12 seats into the Senate with him in 1980 and it was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had a majority. You should read up a bit.
    – I do know that; I chose not to mention it because it wasn’t a necessary fact to note in refuting the statement: “Reagan took over in 1980 with a majority in both the house and senate”. But that’s okay. Feel free to try again to catch me in a factual error. Maybe one day you will.

    Nor, I’m sure did [Carter] have such a blatantly partisan corrupt DOJ.
    – That record goes to Democrat Harry Truman, whose DOJ had 166 employees either fired or forced to resign in a tax scandal. How many members of Bush’s DOJ have actually been accused of wrongdoing? 2 or 3, none of them officially charged? Carter of course had Abscam, wherein almost all of the officials involved in taking bribes were Democrats.

    #222 –

    This WH played the fundy’s like a piano and you know they played the fear card every chance they got in 2003, 2004 to manipulate and scare voters against the Democrats.
    – In the words (or is it ‘word’) of Dick Cheney: “SO?” Democrats do the same thing with women & minorities & labor unions; it’s part of the game. I was talking about your reference to Karl Rove’s plan for a permanent Republican majority, and your apparent belief that he “almost succeeded” when he actually didn’t even come close. And when you talk about Bush “making the country a theocracy,” that is nothing but a talking point.

    #224 -

    “God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, etc. …” – George W Bush, according to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas
    – 1) NOT the most trustworthy source. 2) My question stands: How did Bush “create” a foe out of al-Qaeda when they were the ones who attacked us?

    Icy Truth (80b4e7)

  245. FLIP: In a 2003 forum on health care, Mr. Obama said he supported the children of illegal aliens’ receiving the same benefits as citizens, “whether it’s medical, whether it’s in-state tuition.” Asked specifically whether he included “undocumented” people, Mr. Obama replied, “Absolutely.”

    FLOP: But in a CNN debate Jan. 21, when Mr. Obama was asked whether his health care proposal covers illegal aliens, he said “no” and that he first wants to cover the U.S. citizens and legal residents without health care.

    Obama Gems (0eda31)

  246. Please stop replying to Peter. His statements speak for themselves. This thread was supposed to be about Obama changing his position and many examples of his dishonesty have been well demonstrated.

    That’z interesting and worth discussion. While Peter has so absurdly called this important act of collecting research to inform the voters “suppression”, he has refused to dispute anything on topic, instead making attacks that fall down without any need for us to attack him. For God’s sake, he insists we all misspell Antietam before he swears he isn’t trolling.

    Stop replying to Peter, please. Let’s get the conversation on topic. #240 has my favorite one, because it was so obviously Obama was lying then and knew it in his heart, but he was simply such a poor speaker he couldn’t help himself. Check #240 for the link.

    “I was elected yesterday. I have never set foot in the U.S. Senate. I’ve never worked in Washington. And the notion that somehow I’m immediately going to start running for higher office just doesn’t make sense. So look, I can unequivocally say I will not be running for national office in four years.” – Barack Obama, 11/4/04

    He’s pointing out that it doesn’t make sense for someone who has accomplished nothing and knows nothing to pursue the Presidency. What a dumbass to insult himself so devastatingly! He’s making a promise to fulfill his oath to Illinois and serve as their Senator… he has broken his promise and continued a career of lying and lying and lying. Note that he also broke his promise by hardly ever voting Aye or Nay on the tough issues. In Obama’s 16 months of experience, he showed that he wanted to follow the Senate instead of taking a role in the voting… he’s no leader. Obama has a much niver voice than Bush, but he’s basically as weak when it comes to ad-lib speech.

    I’m sure Peter will respond with something absurd about footwear or attack Bush (using Abbas’s words or simply inventing something). Fact is, Bush was right when Obama was wrong about the surge. When was Obama right about anything? Even the community he organized slid further into slum as slumlord bribemaster Rezko reaped millions. He’s nothing, and his insane supporters like Peter are unwilling to even permit a thread to discuss it. they will actually come here and disrupt. Please don’t reply to Peter if he’s off-topic.

    Patterico, perhaps you could give one or two of your most reliable commenters a special email address or something so they could alert you to obvious problems like Peter? He’s spent many hours of his “life” to successfully damage a good thread idea.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  247. FLIP: Obama will protect the environment.
    http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:z2oMWdndzgcJ:www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/EnvironmentFactSheet.pdf+OBAMA+increase+environmental+regulations&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=safari

    FLOP: Obama opposes House-passed 1872 Mining Act reform bill.

    In November 2007, Obama pandered to the mining industry in Nevada by coming out AGAINST a crucial reform bill the House passed that would have updated the notorious “General Mining Law of 1872.” (The “General Mining Law Of 1872,” which has allowed the mining industry to pull gold, silver and other minerals from federal lands WITHOUT paying royalties.) A House-passed bill would impose a royalty of 4 percent of gross revenue on existing hard-rock mining operations and 8 percent of gross revenue on new mining operations. The reform bill also would put new environmental controls on hard-rock mining, set up a cleanup fund for abandoned mines and permanently ban cheap sales of public lands for mining.

    Could it be because of his ties to the mining lobbyist?

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/14/politics/p145256S71.DTL&type=politics

    Obama Gems (0eda31)

  248. 06/10/2008 – Scarlett Johansson is somewhat shocked that he keeps up their back-and-forth correspondence. “You’d imagine that someone like the senator who is constantly traveling and constantly ‘on’ — how can he return these personal e-mails?” she asks. “But he does, and in his off-time I know he also calls people who have donated the minimum to thank them. Nobody sees it, nobody talks about it, but it’s incredible.” She adds, “I feel like I’m supporting someone, and having a personal dialogue with them, and it’s amazing.”

    06/26/2008 – Obama insisted he had only sent one email to Johansson, and that was after her original message was forwarded to him by his assistant Reggie Love. “I (wrote) saying, ‘Thank you, Scarlett, for doing what you do,’ and suddenly we have this email relationship.”

    – Now either Miss Johansson is a little overenthusiastic in her memory or else Obama pulled a preemptive flip-flop.

    Icy Truth (7ba2f5)

  249. More Obama flipping and flopping lies if nobody posted this yet by Dick Morris:

    Obama lies some more

    …..The Obama ad, which introduces him as someone who worked his way through college, fights for American jobs, and battles for health care also seeks to move him to the center by taking credit for welfare reform in Illinois which, the ad proclaims, reduced the rolls by 80%.

    But there’s one problem – Obama opposed the 1996 welfare reform act at the time. The Illinois law for which he takes credit, was merely the local implementing law the state was required to pass, and it did, almost unanimously. Obama’s implication — that he backed “moving people from welfare to work” — is just not true. ……..

    Bob USMC (468a3f)

  250. Suggestion for Patterico:

    How about putting up a post that begins to list the flip-flops that have been identified and verified so far, with the comments turned off. That would make it easier for participants to determine if their particular flip-flop has already been reported rather than having to wade through the 250+ comments already posted.

    You could periodically update the post with new entries as new flip-flops are discovered.

    WLS (1cdbde)

  251. SILENCE! I KILL YOU.

    love2008 (6e616b)

  252. Peter said he hopes the current candidate would be smarter than John Kerry. A rather audacious hope if you ask me. Finding someone smarter than John Kerry is the same as finding someone smarter than a slug.

    Eichendorff (ee090a)

  253. WILL OBAMA MEET WITH EVIL DICTATORS WITHOUT PRECONDITION? YES
    LINK:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSFSUbMWenU&feature=related

    WOULD OBAMA GO TO THE OLYMPIC’S OPENING CEREMONY? YES, BUT WITH PRECONDITIONS
    LINK
    : http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2008/Jul/08/obama_says_he_wouldn_t_attend_the_olympics_opening.html

    jose (a372a3)

  254. The report on Iraq on Thursday was especially critical of statements by the president and vice president linking Iraq to Al Qaeda and raising the possibility that Mr. Hussein might supply the terrorist group with unconventional weapons. “Representing to the American people that the two had an operational partnership and posed a single, indistinguishable threat was fundamentally misleading and led the nation to war on false premises,” Mr. Rockefeller wrote.

    Actually, that’s not what the report says:

    Page 15:

    (U) Conclusion 1: Statements by the President, Vice President, Secretary of State and the National Security Adviser regarding a possible Iraqi nuclear weapons program were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates, but did not convey the substantial disagreements that existed in the intelligence community.

    Page 28:

    (U) Conclusion 2: Statements in major speeches analyzed, as well as additional statements, regarding Iraq’s possession of biological agent, weapons, production capability, and use of mobile laboratories were substantiated by intelligence information. Intelligence assessments from the late 1990s through early 2003 consistently stated that Iraq retained biological warfare agent and the capability to produce more. Assessments on the mobile facilities included the production capabilities of those labs, both in terms of type of agent and in amount.

    Page 37:

    (U) Conclusion 3: Statements in major speeches analyzed, as well [as] additional statements, regarding Iraq’s possession of chemical weapons, were substantiated by intelligence information.

    Page 49-50:

    (U) Conclusion 5: Statements by the President, Vice President, Secretary of State and the National Security Adviser regarding Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction were generally substantiated by intelligence information.

    But let us never forget that this little fracas is known as “Operation Iraqi Freedom”, not “Operation Let’s Go Kick Saddam’s Butt and Find Some Nukes”…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  255. Some of Obama’s recent outrageous flip-flops
    * Obama supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

    * Obama supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

    * Obama believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

    * Obam believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

    * He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

    * Obama supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

    * He wanted political support from radical televangelists like John Hagee and Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.

    * Obama supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.
    Obama opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

    And these are the flip-flops I’ve noticed earlier:

    There is more.

    love2008 (a6320b)

  256. Sorry if this is a duplicate posting, I am having problems with the system.

    Here is a list complete with citations, including some that I didn’t see above:

    http://massdiscussion.blogspot.com/2008/06/collection-of-obama-flip-flops.html

    (Couldn’t get the link tool to work.)

    in_awe (bc82df)

  257. I don’t know if you have completely plumbed the depths of the phenomena. What about flip-flopping explanations for flip-flops? He didn’t say it, I didn’t hear him say it, that’s not what he meant, I didn’t realize that was what he meant, OK I reject it.

    And don’t forget about his smoking flip-flop:
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-is-smokin.html

    He could have been honest, earlier.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  258. DRJ quoted a Rolling Stone suck-up piece on Obama:

    Over the past two years, Obama has come to adopt this worldview as his own. He came back fascinated from a quick trip to a U.S. project in Ethiopia, where American soldiers had parachuted in to help the victims of a flood: “By investing now,” he said, “we avoid an Iraq or Afghanistan later.” The foreign-policy initiatives he has fought for and passed have followed this model: He has secured money to fight avian flu, improve security in the Congo and safeguard Russian nuclear weapons.

    OK, lemme get this straight: By “investing” in humanitarian efforts in far-flung lands, the populace will be resistant to creating a situation compelling American troop involvement.

    Yeah, that’s worked real well in Iran, where America’s millions were sent to help dig the Iranians out from under a 2003 earthquake, after which we were effectively told, “You’re not getting any credit for this.” Somalia began as a humanitarian effort also; the first Bush sent American troops to oversee UN efforts to feed half a million people starving in the midst of a civil war, and eventually resulted in the lasting images of terrorists dragging, burning and desecrating the corpses of American soldiers in the streets of Mogadishu. And who can forget Afghanistan, which survived the attempted usurpation of the Soviets with the assistance of U.S.-supplied Stinger missiles and military training? What did we get for our trouble keeping it out of commie clutches? Eventually, a safe haven for Osama bin Laden.

    Obama’s foreign policy principles seem to be those of simpletons like, well, Barney the Dinosaur, as if the world will love the US back if we love it.

    Whoops! Did I say Barney the Dinosaur? I meant Winnie-the-Pooh.

    L.N. Smithee (ecc5a5)

  259. Obama must have caught a glimpse of this post’s title… he is addressing accusations of flip-flopping at the WaPo:

    “Obama, egged on by a raucous audience, said he would like to address “this whole notion that I am shifting to the center, or that I am flip-flopping.”

    “The people who say this apparently haven’t been listening to me,” Obama said. “And I have to say, some of them are my friends on the left and some of the media, I am somebody who is no doubt progressive.” He listed ways he says he is progressive — on providing universal health care coverage, increased teacher pay — but then said that on other matters he believes in “personal responsibility” and faith.

    On Iraq, Obama declared unequivocally his commitment to withdrawal, making no reference to his statement last week that he could “refine” his strategy after taking office.

    “I have also consistently said, once we were in, we had to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in, because once you get in, you’ve got to make sure our troops are safe,” he said. “You’ve got to make sure the country doesn’t collapse so what I’ve called for is a phased withdrawal, a phased redeployment.” He continued: “Now, assuming that I take office in January, then that means that we would still have our troops there for about two more year from now. There’s nothing rushed about that… When I hear John McCain saying we can’t surrender, we can’t wave the white flag — nobody’s talking about surrender. We’re talking about common sense.”

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/07/08/obama_tells_voters_his_views_h.html

    Dana (764cb2)

  260. He continued: “Now, assuming that I take office in January, then that means that we would still have our troops there for about two more year from now. There’s nothing rushed about that…

    We may see heads exploding on the left.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  261. McCain’s spokesman Tucker Bounds bluntly responds to Obama’s arrogant accusation that if people think he’s flip-flopping then its because they have not been listening to him.

    “Barack Obama is wrong: everyone’s been listening and still nobody knows what Barack Obama truly believes.”

    Heh.

    Dana (764cb2)

  262. Which day is it that we are supposed to listen to Baracky? I listen everyday, and his positions seem to be as flexible as a yogi.

    JD (5f0e11)

  263. JD, he’s evolving. Thats what progressives do. They evolve. And earnestly so.

    We are just unable to understand.

    Dana (764cb2)

  264. He continued: “Now, assuming that I take office in January, then that means that we would still have our troops there for about two more year from now. There’s nothing rushed about that…

    Wow, train wreck.

    The smoothest tele-prompter talent since Wink Martindale. This dude’s in trouble…

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  265. I’m watching an Obama advertisement on TV right now where he’s taking credit for welfare reform that he opposed.

    Hilarious.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  266. Denver will be the political junkie’s Super Bowl. Hillary has gotta be loving this.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  267. OBAMA ON THE DEFICIT

    From Senator Obama’s U.S. Senate speech, March 13, 2006 as posted on his Presidential campaign website under Fiscal Issues:

    Plan for Restoring Fiscal Discipline

    “The cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on. . . . If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we’d see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

    Via Hot Air, John McCain pledged July 7, 2008, to balance the budget by 2013. Barack Obama responded by claiming that it can’t be balanced, and he can’t be bothered to try:

    Not only does Obama say he won’t eliminate the deficit in his first term, as McCain aims to do, he frankly says he’s not sure he’d bring it down at all in four years, considering his own spending plans.

    “I do not make a promise that we can reduce it by 2013 because I think it is important for us to make some critical investments right now in America’s families,” Obama told reporters this week when asked if he’d match McCain’s pledge.

    So what is more important in tough economic times? For the government to spend more to help hard-hit Americans or to eliminate a deficit that can lead to higher borrowing costs and slow the economy?

    It’s like the pancake house with a new flip every day.

    More syrup, please.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  268. JohnMcCain2008 liked your idea. Today the McCain campaign released a list of Obama’s 17 ‘Changing Positions’:

    CHANGE #1: Despite Pledging To Withdraw American Troops From Iraq Immediately, Barack Obama Now Says He Would “Refine” His Policy After Listening To The Commanders On The Ground

    CHANGE #2: Despite Pledging To Accept Public Financing, Barack Obama Has Reversed His Position And Opted Out Of The System

    CHANGE #3: Barack Obama Is Backtracking On His Support For Unilaterally Renegotiating NAFTA

    CHANGE #4: Barack Obama Is Considering Reducing Corporate Taxes Despite Having Called Corporate Tax Cuts “The Exact Wrong Prescription For America”

    CHANGE #5: Barack Obama Has Changed Positions On The D.C. Handgun Ban

    CHANGE #6: Barack Obama Has Shifted From Opposing Welfare Reform To Celebrating Welfare Reform In A Television Ad

    CHANGE #7: As A Presidential Candidate, Barack Obama Criticizes The Administration’s Energy Policy Despite Having Voted For The 2005 Bush-Cheney Energy Bill

    CHANGE #8: Barack Obama Has Shifted Positions On Nuclear Power

    CHANGE #9: Obama Adviser Said Obama Was Not Opposed To An Individual Health Care Mandate Despite His Opposition During The Primary

    CHANGE #10: During The Primaries, Barack Obama Pledged To Filibuster Any Bill Which Contained Immunity For Telecommunications Companies Involved In Electronic Surveillance, But Now Backs A Compromise Bill

    CHANGE #11: Barack Obama Disagreed With The Supreme Court Decision Striking Down The Use Of The Death Penalty For A Convicted Child Rapist Although In The Past He Opposed The Death Penalty

    CHANGE #12: Barack Obama Has Backtracked From His Earlier Commitment To Meet With The Leaders Of State Sponsors Of Terror “Without Precondition”

    CHANGE #13: After Saying Jerusalem Should Be “Undivided,” Barack Obama Has Since Backtracked

    CHANGE #14: As A Presidential Candidate, Barack Obama Has Backed Away From His Earlier Support For Normalized Relations With Cuba And Ending The Embargo

    CHANGE #15: Barack Obama Is Against The California Ballot Measure Banning Gay Marriage Despite His Assertion That Marriage Is Between A Man And A Woman

    CHANGE #16: Barack Obama Says That “Mental Distress” Should Not Be Reason For A Late Term Abortion Which Contradicts His Past Extreme Pro-Abortion Views

    CHANGE #17: Barack Obama Said He Would Debate “Anywhere, Anytime” But Has Rejected Joint Town Hall Meetings

    Details and sources are at the link.

    DRJ (d5bcc5)

  269. As usual DRJ, out of the park.

    Barack Obama, change he can believe in.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  270. Position: 5/19: Good Morning America interview. “If they think that they’re going to try to make Michelle an issue in this campaign, they should be careful.”

    Flip: 7/8: Four-part interview with Access Hollywood featuring his whole family (It may be a rash assumption, but I would think that if his wife is off limits, he would like his children to be off limits as well.).

    Flop: 7/9: (One day later!): Today Show interview w/Matt Lauer in which he admits he shouldn’t have put his family in the spotlight and wouldn’t do it again.

    Double Extra Super Bonus Lie Embedded in the Flop: “We were having a birthday party and everybody was laughing, and suddenly this thing cropped up.” As if the cameras and crew just broke into the house without permission and he was helpless to stop them.

    brobin (c07c20)

  271. After making an issue about not wanting to wear a flag pin on his lapel. I think he said something like ” I will not put that on my chest” he is now wearing a flag pin. I bet he would put his hand over his heart also it it would get some votes. Obama is all about getting elected and not about
    truth,honor or change!

    Ken (530e34)

  272. From ‘Dreams of my Father’, “In Indonesia, I SPENT TWO YEARS IN A MUSLIM SCHOOL, ..I STUDIED THE KORAN”.

    From Obama website;
    Obama has never been a Muslim

    Edward Wilson (e1719f)


  273. From ‘Dreams of my Father’, “In Indonesia, I SPENT TWO YEARS IN A MUSLIM SCHOOL, ..I STUDIED THE KORAN”.

    From Obama website;
    Obama has never been a Muslim

    You are suggesting being a Muslim, in and of itself, is a bad thing.

    Theologists study the Koran, the Bible, the Torah, writings from the Sikh faith, the Hindu faith and Buddhism, as well as, less know religions. The also study non-faiths: the writings of secular humanists, the enlightenment and atheism.

    And they do it for a lifetime. This does not make them any of those faiths (or non-faiths. They will follow the faith that speaks to them most deeply. Studying other faiths can even deepen your understanding and faith in your own religion.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  274. You are suggesting being a Muslim, in and of itself, is a bad thing.

    No. Obama himself thinks it’s a bad thing. He wants to be the founding founder of harmony and unity, but he shoved two supporters off stage at a rally because they were wearing head scarves. Great moment to make a point in front of the cameras, but . . . .

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  275. “You are suggesting being a Muslim, in and of itself, is a bad thing.”

    Peter – I think Obama is when he has his people rearrange the crown at speaking events so that people wearing traditional muslim attire are not caught in shots with the Senator. They’ve done it on more than one occasion. What is wrong with Obama?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  276. You are suggesting being a Muslim, in and of itself, is a bad thing.

    No one here has said anything of the kind. I have known good and honorable Muslims, including one who was on my watch team aboard ship. He held a security clearance almost as high as mine (I was cleared for crypto – he wasn’t), and had a hell of a sense of humor.

    I have also done a comparative study of world religions. Doesn’t qualify me to be President, even though I did it as an adult, not as a seven-year-old boy.

    And since when was Obama (still a young child) considered a “theologist”? You clearly can’t stand “fundies” in office, yet a theologist is somehow okay?

    But the point being made is that Obama is lying about having been one at some point in the past.

    Is it because he thinks it won’t work having a Muslim as President during a time of war? Or that he might be targeted for being an apostate, which Muslims regard as worthy of a death sentence?

    Or is it the Gun- and God-grabbin’ hillfolk of the flyover areas wouldn’t vote for a Muslim, just ’cause they don’t know any better? All they need is someone who knows what’s best for them deciding things on the world stage, and who better than a Democrat elitist with a C.V. shorter than the average comic strip?

    C’mon, you can level with us… it’s the ‘D’ after his name, isn’t it? That’s what gets your knees all wobbly, admit it.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  277. “But the point being made is that Obama is lying about having been one at some point in the past.”

    Huh?

    JAR (9c32c0)

  278. Huh?

    What’s the matter? Too many syllables?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  279. Drumwaster, he’s dreamy too… oh, that speaking voice.

    I have also done a comparative study of world religions. Doesn’t qualify me to be President, even though I did it as an adult, not as a seven-year-old boy.

    ^ Actually, that’s kind of funny. From the same crowd that discredits Bush and his M.B.A.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  280. Jar,
    The apparent founding father of harmony and unity won’t acknowledge his muslim roots now.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)


  281. And since when was Obama (still a young child) considered a “theologist”? You clearly can’t stand “fundies” in office, yet a theologist is somehow okay?

    You need to unask that question. You missed the point. Exposure to a variety of ideas is not a terminal process. Islam is not a deadly mind control disease like invasion of the body snatchers. Like exposure to a number of viruses in youth, if it doesn’t cause fatality, it makes a body stronger and more capable of remaining healthy.


    But the point being made is that Obama is lying about having been one at some point in the past.

    False. Two years in a Muslim school as a child does not one make a Muslim. Anymore than is makes one a theologist. It is an adult that decides ones faith. Not a child and there are millions who grew up with one faith and came to another as adults. OR even no faith. And that too is a cherished freedom in this country.

    C’mon…if the GOP was a little grown up about things and less petty and slimy, I’m sure having a few Muslim women in a photo would not be an issue. But your party has proven otherwise repeatedly and frankly I’m glad his campaign isn’t giving anymore ammo that can be misconstrued.

    Again, I think the Republican party would do better to stop playing mind games and focusing on the issues, but considering the glaring record of failure that McCain has chosen to run on, I can see why they would need to resort to putting up pages tearing down their opponent. As well as this little exercise that, as I’ve said before, you guys are too blinkered and partisan to see the quixotic aspects of.

    Keep tilting at those wind mills, while Obama continues to tear the GOP house down.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  282. JAF – There are lots of Southern Baptists in Indonesian madrassas.

    JD (75f5c3)

  283. His parents were non-religious when they met.
    Here’s the rest.

    He’s wimped out about having women in hijab on stage with him. Stupid move.

    JAR (9c32c0)

  284. Peter – If Muslims consider him a Muslim because he was born to a Muslim father, who are you to argue with them?

    JD (75f5c3)

  285. Ace has one up:

    December 17, 2007: “Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies and has cosponsored Senator Dodd’s efforts to remove that provision from the FISA bill. Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same. It’s not clear whether he can return for the vote, but under the Senate rules, the side trying to end a filibuster must produce 60 votes to cut off debate. Whether he is present for the vote or not, Senator Obama will not be among those voting to end the filibuster.”

    June 25, 2008: “My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides security interests of the American people. I do want accountability, and making sure that, as I’ve said before, that somebody is watching the watchers.”

    Obama just voted in favor of the FISA bill.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  286. #291,

    C’mon…if the GOP was a little grown up about things and less petty and slimy, I’m sure having a few Muslim women in a photo would not be an issue.

    You’re kidding.. I hope. Take your lumps and make sure your (presumptive) candidate does the same. The GOP and its voters can’t use ANYTHING against Barry that he himself hasn’t put out there. He should stick to his shtick that he’s all about unity and peace and no color lines. Maybe let a Muslim share the stage instead of shoving them off into the mosh pit. Being popular must be tough; being popular and a poseur has gotta hurt.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  287. Hot Air has video of Obama saying he’d debate McCain on Iraq “anytime, any place, anywhere” but Obama refuses to schedule a Military town hall meeting even though the good folks in charge have told Obama that they’d accomodate his schedule “anytime”

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  288. Hot Air documents Obama’s “clarification” of his position on bilingualism.

    DRJ (ec597e)

  289. Peter is hilarious. The reality is that if Obama is elected President, he will be the least accomplished person ever elected to the office of President in the history of our nation.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  290. “and frankly I’m glad his campaign isn’t giving anymore ammo that can be misconstrued. “

    Are we talking about Obama, because my friend, he is the gift that keeps on giving…and giving… and giving.

    Dana (aec96d)

  291. Obama’s Jerusalem flip-flop gets more coverage as Obama weasels around some more about his own comments.

    This is another example, by the way, of just how inexperienced and ignorant of foriegn policy Obama is.

    This guy will be a disaster as President – with luck, the American people will realize it by November.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  292. http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/jul/14/barack-obama-voted-four-times-to-allow-crimin/

    In fact, Barack Obama specifically voted four times in the Illinois Legislature to allow criminal charges against a homeowner who used a firearm in self-defense of their person and home — specifically what the Supreme Court says is a constitutional right. Obama may say he supports it, but his record says exactly the opposite.

    In 2004, the Illinois Senate considered S.B. 2165 (IL 2004), sponsored by Senator Ed Petka (R-Plainfield). The bill came about because of an arrest in Wilmette, IL in late December of 2003. A 54-year-old businessman shot and wounded a man who had broken into his home for the second time in 24 hours. Cook County prosecutors found the shooting justified, but the businessman, Mr. DeMar, faced a fine and possible destruction of two guns under a 1989 village ordinance prohibiting handgun possession.

    S.B. 2165 would allow residents to use self-defense as a basis for seeking dismissal of criminal charges stemming from local gun ordinances if they used the banned weapon in an act of self-defense in their home, business or property.

    in_awe (bc82df)

  293. Courtesy of Michelle Malkin, Obama flip-flops on publicizing his daughters.

    DRJ (070f3d)

  294. Here’s another one on offshore drilling.

    DRJ (68f27b)

  295. Dean Barnett at The Weekly Standard blog spots another Obama flip-flop, this one on tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

    It’s hard to keep up with all this Change, believe me.

    DRJ (9d1be2)

  296. Come up with a list of Obama’s Flip-Flops? Quite frankly, I’ve lost count. Basically, the guy’s got enough flip-flops to open his own shoe store…

    DP (f67e54)

  297. From the Chicago Sun-Times’ Lynn Sweet, Obama recently ran this ad that opposes opening Nevada’s Yucca Mountain facility.

    The McCain campaign responded:

    “Apparently Barack Obama is also taking a vacation from the facts, ignoring his own votes in support of the Yucca Mountain project. Either Barack Obama is too inexperienced to understand that his votes on the floor of the United States Senate are recorded for Americans to review, or he’s simply showing incredible hypocrisy.” —Tucker Bounds, spokesman John McCain 2008

    In 2005, Barack Obama Voted Twice To Fund The Yucca Mountain Nuclear Waste Repository. “Passage of the bill that would provide $31.2 billion in fiscal 2006 for energy and water development projects, including $5.3 billion for the Army Corps of Engineers and $25 billion for the Energy Department. It also would provide $577 million for the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository.” (H.R. 2419, CQ Vote #172: Passed 92-3: R 50-3; D 41-0; I 1-0, 7/1/05, Obama Voted Yea; H.R. 2419, CQ Vote #321: Adopted 84-4: R 48-2; D 35-2; I 1-0, 11/14/05, Obama Voted Yea)–from the McCain campaign.

    The best you can say for Obama’s position is that he’s willing to use federal money to fund Yucca Mountain but he doesn’t want to open it.

    DRJ (9d1be2)


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