Whiny Demand: Super Wealthy Republicans Should Lend Trump Money
[guest post by Dana]
Why are there no Republican multi-billionaires offering to lend President Trump the funds to file his appeal in the outrageous case in NY state? Are none of them liquid enough to help or join with others to help? This is an outrage.
— Mark R. Levin (@marklevinshow) March 18, 2024
The expectation that anyone should bail Trump out of the mess that he made seems to contradict the historical view of Republicans that it is an admirable thing to ‘pull one up by their own bootstraps’ rather than be dependent on others. It doesn’t even occur to Levin that uber-wealthy Republicans are sharp enough to understand that Trump is a dishonest man who will never change his corrupt ways and that they prefer to back winners instead of losers. Levin also assumes that wealthy Republicans have an obligation to loan Trump money. But consider, they didn’t become billionaires and multi-billionaires by flushing good money after bad. After all, loaning someone money suggests that it will be paid back. Donald Trump has never been known to be an honest broker who pays off his debts.
These “party first” people are so clueless. Do they not understand how many Republicans have left the party because of Trump’s corruption? Do they not realize that more and more Republicans and former Republican voters have decided that a vote for Biden to keep Trump out of the Oval Office is the only sensible option after years of watching the bellicose grifter trample the Constitution and rule of law?
Moreover, I just looked up the combined wealth of Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump – they are billionaires. Don Jr. is worth approximately $200 million. Eric Trump and wife Laura are worth a combined $350 million. So what’s stopping his very wealthy children from helping him out?
P.S. It appears that Mark Levin himself is a multi-millionaire, so perhaps he can lead by example and pony up first…
—Dana
Not to mention the billionaires and multi-billionaires who pulled their money from Trump and instead supported DeSantis and/or Haley…
Dana (8e902f) — 3/19/2024 @ 10:42 amEverything for Mark Levin is an outrage.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 10:43 amAgain, I suggest Trump borrow the money from the Russian, Qatari, or Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth funds. I’m sure they would be glad to lend a helping hand.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 10:45 amElon Mush can find the Trump’s bond amount in his sofa.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 10:47 amSAD!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 10:51 amWhen is Levin NOT outraged about something.
Paul Montagu (4e633b) — 3/19/2024 @ 10:55 am#5
I’d go for the New York properties first. If they don’t satisfy the judgment, go after properties in blue states. (Some state judge might feel the need to muck around with the processs) Of course, Ms James might want to put a lien on Judge Cannon, because Trump seems to own her free and clear.
Appalled (7fa668) — 3/19/2024 @ 11:51 amThe thing that gets me every time is the differential set of standards. Again, what do each of us stand for, when we support or do not support candidates.
As for Mr. Levin, I suggest that he has long been in a forward feedback loop of wackiness.
Just like his various nemeses (nk, is that the plural of nemesis?).
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:04 pmI will not be surprised when Elon Musk fronts the money, given that he has similar problems with a judge.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:08 pm@5: Another vote for lawfare.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:09 pmOF course if anyone loans Trump the money NY will go after them for an illegal campaign contribution.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:10 pm#10
My observation is that, given the Judge Cannon nonsense in Florida, I am far less perturbed by New York’s aggressive enforcement actions. Things have a way of balancing out.
In a fully just world, Bragg would have declined to prosecute, the Espionage Act would already have Trump in prison, and opening arguments for the Jack Smith DC trial would be starting. (And Fani Willis would have found love on Tinder, rather than in her office)
Since the world is not often as just as it should be, I will take that the profoundly guilty often get had up for the crimes they didn’t commit, and Attorney Generals impose punishments based on the crimes they did not get them for as well as the ones that they did.
Appalled (c8439b) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:42 pmThis (valid) complaint is true of *all* these “help [insert cause du jour]” pitches.
Celebrities are constantly demanding that middle-class people, who are already having trouble making ends meet, pony up their hard-earned money to grease their pet project’s palms. See: Alyssa Milano. Meanwhile they all but refuse to provide any help themselves.
And PS, Kevin M is correct yet again in his assessments. It’s nice that there’s one person here who can despise Trump but still see his way through all the disturbing issues with his prosecution.
qdpsteve again (8f9c49) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:56 pmNot a mess he made for himself. He was politically targeted in NY by an AG that promised to go after him and a biased judge that deliberately understated the value of his property and overstated the alleged civil fines.
Carry on with the 2 minutes of hate as you support flushing our country down the toilet.
NJRob (f9f34e) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:57 pm11. Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 12:10 pm
It’s all right if it is a sound business decision against god collateral, at an interest rate at least that of Treasuries.
Now in 1992 Democratic primary campaign, Bill Clinton got a very chancy loan from the Worthen National Bank (which had BCCI figures involved in it) against fake collateral – federal matching funds that turned into reality only because he won primaries and thus continued to get contributions.
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/05/us/1992-campaign-personal-finances-wealthy-investment-family-big-help-clinton.html
I have the BCCI connection here:
https://thetimes-tribune.newspapers.com/article/the-atlanta-constitution/134450968/?locale=en-US
I didn’t quickly find an assertion that the loan was based on lies. But here’sone that says campaign help for his 1990 campaign for governor (and also for president) violated campaign finance laws and other laws:
(here it seems to be straw donors and getting money back from the bank)
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/us/arkansas-bank-s-loans-clintons-are-crux-latestwhitewater-case.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 3/19/2024 @ 1:29 pmThe Bragg trial has been postponed for at least a month owing to delayed delivery of discovery materials (which Trump blames on Bragg not asking hard enough) concerning the federal case that involved Michael Cohen which Trump’s lawyers they want to mine to impeach Michael Cohen’s credibility.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 3/19/2024 @ 1:34 pmI think Trump will be able to post the bond at the last minute-this is all performance art, like most of his campaign.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:00 pmlike most of his campaign.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:00 pm
You spelled “life” wrong.
norcal (189898) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:20 pmTouché!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:23 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:23 pmSad!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:26 pmThe Harry Reid Filibuster rule applies here.
One day in the very near future, a Republican judge will find a Dem Sugar Daddy (Gates, Bezos, maybe even Soros himself) guilty of some made-up violation and freeze all their assets.
And none of you will have a leg to stand on because you encouraged it this time.
SaveFarris (942f52) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:29 pmPendulums eventually swing the other way, you know…
#22
And when those sugar daddies try to steal an election and launch a coup, I will be happy that the GOP justice is striking a blow for liberty.
Appalled (c8439b) — 3/19/2024 @ 2:35 pmTrump’s charges aren’t “made up” but ditto what Appalled said.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:03 pmTrump is the one who understated the value of his properties for tax purposes and overstated it for to get lower interest rates on loans. For example, Mar-a-lago:
By definition, the words in a legal agreement convey legal intent, not bravado. But Trump gave the world a look into his psyche in that quote. The law never applies to him.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:13 pmTrump wants to value Mar-a-Lago at the price it would bring if he sold it to be subdivided, even though he legally changed its status so that it could never be subdivided to lower his tax burden.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:15 pmThe jumped-up bellboy got his baksheesh up front. He’s holding on to it and cadging for more because “Why not?”
nk (bb1548) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:17 pmBy definition, the words in a legal agreement convey legal intent, not bravado. But Trump gave the world a look into his psyche in that quote. The law never applies to him.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:13 pm
It astounds me that after all these years, and so much evidence, there are still people who can’t see what a degenerate Trump is, and how he degrades civil discourse.
norcal (189898) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:25 pmI think Trump is claiming that a statement that he “intend” is not binding and he has to follow through and he never did or that it only applies through the period of his ownership and the existence of the club and a new owner would not be bound. Whether anything like that is so or not depends on an examination of the record. But you’d think words mean something.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:35 pmI don’t think Mark Levin gives a fig about Trump posting bond. All he cares about is keeping his audience whipped up in its outrage of entitlement. The whining and foot-stomping keeps them entertained.
What a bore!
Kenneth P. (1f45e0) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:42 pmKenneth P. (1f45e0) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:42 pm
It’s not just Levin. It’s Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, and almost anyone with a TV or radio show that leans right. As long as Trumpers are the biggest group on the right, these media figures will play to that group, because that’s where the ratings (i.e., money) are.
In 2016, Shapiro said he would never vote for Trump. Now Shapiro is co-hosting a fundraiser for Trump, and says he would “walk over broken glass to vote for him [Trump].”
norcal (189898) — 3/19/2024 @ 3:54 pmI slopped all the water I could spare into Trump’s trough in the Colorado and Georgia cases. He can carry his own to his mud wallow now as far as I’m concerned.
nk (bb1548) — 3/19/2024 @ 4:06 pmLOL why aren’t people who are smart lending money to Trump (who has filed for bankruptcy and otherwise failed to repay his debts so many times).
It is a mystery.
Dustin (c1324d) — 3/19/2024 @ 4:46 pmSo no one here is gonna send money to help poor ol’ Donnie with his legal troubles? I’m SHOCKED I tell you!! SHOCKED!!!!!!1!
In the meantime, I’m gonna start calling the proprietor here Pat “Cougar”-terico. 😉
https://www.outkick.com/culture/john-mellencamp-is-an-idiot-for-playing-toledo-on-st-patricks-day
qdpsteve again (8f9c49) — 3/19/2024 @ 4:53 pmOnce again, most of you don’t care because of whose ox is being gored not giving a darn about the political consequences or legal precedent.
Broken by hate.
NJRob (51f9b6) — 3/19/2024 @ 4:57 pmOne day in the very near future, a Republican judge will find a Dem Sugar Daddy (Gates, Bezos, maybe even Soros himself) guilty of some made-up violation and freeze all their assets.
If Bill Gates stepped into this election as an independent (he won’t), he’d be the favorite.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 5:15 pmTrump wants to value Mar-a-Lago at the price it would bring if he sold it to be subdivided, even though he legally changed its status so that it could never be subdivided to lower his tax burden.
He can’t. But are you going to say that a creditor-in-possession could not? The loan valuation is what it would bring the creditor, not what the debtor can do with it. People took out huge loans on Orange County, CA farmland. Their assessment was based on current use, but the value as housing was much much higher.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 5:18 pmI will take back every lousy thing I’ve said about the NY cases if they force Trump out of the Presidential race. But failing that, what use are they?
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/19/2024 @ 7:58 pmLot of people channeling their inner Nifong in this thread.
lloyd (05649e) — 3/19/2024 @ 8:23 pmNifong never had a case to prosecute. Trump’s was already adjudicated.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 3/19/2024 @ 9:14 pmLot of people channeling their inner Nifong in this thread.
And some are channeling their inner Baghdad Bob.
norcal (4a1f13) — 3/19/2024 @ 9:50 pmMaybe because trump continues to lose 20% of votes in republican primarys today after Haley drops out. Biden losing 15% of vote to mariane williamson and uncommitted.
asset (d33dbb) — 3/19/2024 @ 11:30 pmIn collection actions, there is something called a citation to discover assets. We may find out that Trump has a negative net worth.
That his Trump Organization said to be composed of more than 500 entities is a form of pyramid scheme, consisting of overvalued, overleveraged, and maybe even non-existent assets supporting each other hand-to-mouth by elaborate check-kiting trails, but providing him with day-to-day cash flow to support his lifestyle.
We’ll see.
nk (bb1548) — 3/20/2024 @ 5:14 amI actually had a talk with someone in this group last night. I wouldn’t say she was entertained. I would say she was…well…outraged. She kept asking me why I didn’t care about the injustice of it all.
What Levin et al are doing is not a crime. I wish it were. Then we could prosecute and recover at least some of the money they have gained by lying to a large percentage of the American people. But it IS a sin. And they will be partly responsible for the ultimate blowback, which will arrive eventually. Unlike the former president, the Gods of the Copybook Headings always settle their accounts.
Response of the thread.
Demosthenes (fac686) — 3/20/2024 @ 5:54 amThe Gods of the Copybook Headings
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
Heh!
nk (bb1548) — 3/20/2024 @ 6:02 amBut the outrage IS the entertainment. It’s kind of like a slasher film, where the emotional surge that people seek comes in the form of fright and terror.
If people weren’t entertained by the outrage, they wouldn’t be drawn to it.
Kenneth P. (1f45e0) — 3/20/2024 @ 6:03 am“But it IS a sin.”
“But the outrage IS the entertainment.”
Agreed. People should be outraged over fake electors, lies about stolen elections, attempts to “find” votes, and recklessly inciting riots. They should be outraged that the Senate failed to do its Constitutional duty and convict Trump. The fact that the Court system is forced to exact some accountability is not outrageous.
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 3/20/2024 @ 6:24 amI get what you’re saying. And I think it’s true of a lot of the people we’re talking about here — of all of them, at first. But some of them are no longer entertained…at least not as most people use that term. They are in the far more dangerous stage where the outrage drug has numbed their dopamine sensors. They keep injecting it even though each dose offers zero or minimal return. They are now consuming it out of habit. It still does the same amount of damage to them. They just don’t feel it anymore.
I mean, I don’t want to quibble over words. (This morning.) But I do resist the notion that my interlocutor was entertained. I was talking to her several years ago when her voice was quivering with rage and confusion about all the “election fraud” that was being “uncovered.” Now she takes that all for granted. It’s like we were both standing next to a skyscraper, but she has been hypnotically conditioned to the point where she sees a pit in the earth. There SHOULD be a skyscraper there, she agrees. But there isn’t one. It’s plain as day. Saying so no longer agitates her. The only thing that even arouses confusion in her is why I keep insisting that the skyscraper is RIGHT THERE.
Demosthenes (fac686) — 3/20/2024 @ 6:33 amIt’s one of the great parlor tricks of the Very Very Online Hyper-Masculinist Red-Pilled Alpha Chad Right that so many people are NOT outraged. Shameful people like Jack Posobiec, and that guy who got arrested in — I think Romania? But I don’t care enough to look it up.
I am reminded of a book, several years old now, from the execrable Theodore “Vox Day” Beale. It was called “SJWs Always Lie,” and it got a lot of play and positive mention among the alt-right. (Now, sadly, very much the mainstream right.) It basically sought to “inoculate” its audience against leftism by purporting to show how they argued.
Look at how the Trumpers are arguing right now, and you will see the same playbook being executed perfectly. For example, one of the tenets of “SJW rhetoric” was (and I’m paraphrasing) to accuse your enemies of what you’re guilty of. The main players lie about the Democrats stealing an election to cover up the fact that their guy tried to steal an election. The dittoheads who don’t know better then spread their lie to the four winds.
I wonder whether part of the reason they have been so successful is because they got their audience to associate these tactics with “The Left,” while identifying themselves as being on the right. You know…they can get away with using these same tactics because their audience literally doesn’t expect it coming from them. Like the magician who natters on about misdirection as something OTHER magicians do.
I’m not sure these thoughts entirely cohere. I’m just thinking out loud.
Demosthenes (fac686) — 3/20/2024 @ 6:49 am“And some are channeling their inner Baghdad Bob.”
The mouthpiece of regime that put their opposition in prison? Yep, that too. Same folks.
The case in the post has nothing to do with a coup, insurrection or fake electors. You can’t even keep your lawfare straight. But jackals will feed on whatever’s in front of them.
lloyd (05649e) — 3/20/2024 @ 7:06 amDemosthenes, as usual your comments are quite insightful.
Just think of Fox News as a gateway drug…..
Kenneth P. (1f45e0) — 3/20/2024 @ 7:10 amQuite. And you know they’re too far gone when they start talking about Fox News as the corporate leftist uniparty opposition outlet, and ask you if you’ve ever heard of the most truly reliable mainstream news channel of all…Newsmax.
And let’s not even get into Gateway Pundit…
Demosthenes (bf240a) — 3/20/2024 @ 7:24 amThis is what you get when you vote for Biden and his leftist ideologues.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/20/2024 @ 7:36 amNailed NeverTrump in 1.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 3/20/2024 @ 7:38 amIt is the wise child which knows that Pwesident Twump is not their dada.
I blame the public schools. If you’re going to teach impressionable young minds that George Washington is The Father Of Our Country ….
nk (bb1548) — 3/20/2024 @ 9:25 amAnd some are channeling their inner Baghdad Bob.
A lot of that going around. I admit to doing that with opposition to Donald Trump since 2015. But I don’t feel as much like Saddam’s supporters as I do Churchill’s at Dunkirk. “The end of the beginning”
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 9:48 amMore Kipling, this about the GOP:
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 9:55 amIf you’re going to teach impressionable young minds that George Washington is The Father Of Our Country ….
If only. Today they teach he was a slaver and a rapist who rebelled against England for personal gain.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 9:57 amInteresting:
Doing nothing would fit in with Trump’s portrayal as a victim, but it is a gamble. Does he feel lucky?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:06 amI’d expect James to sell everything quickly to favored buyers.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:25 amTrump could appeal and then ask for an injunction against sales of the assets. If he has a prima facie case, they might grant it, and the valuations by Judge Erdogan are disputable.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:27 amThe harm to Trump is obvious, the harm to the state of a delay is negligible and might even be beneficial, given the current market.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:28 amOne reason I came to this website (many years ago) was to learn about the legal issues in national cases, especially in police cases. It is hard to judge the legal issues in courts in other States, especially when the reports are often by journalists that may not fully understand the law.
I have learned a lot. There are often reasons why what seems right or wrong is the opposite. Patterico is especially good at fair analysis. He calls them as he sees them, not according to any preconceived result.
Patterico’s fair analysis is true of the Trump charges, too, but too many of Trump’s supporters are not interested unless it benefits or helps Trump.
We all have our preferences. I want a stronger border, support the police, and care about good courts, judges and attorneys … but not at the cost of excusing wrongdoing. Other people care about Trump and politics. I get that. But not at any cost.
DRJ (49ab36) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:32 amMy understanding is that New York law is clear that if no bonds posted, assets can be levied on. The prosecutor can choose not to levy but a court can’t enjoin or stop it absent a bond.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:34 amOne or more of the Trump businesses may be considering bankruptcy. Not Trump but every Trump business that has an interest in his major property holdings.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:39 amPatterico is especially good at fair analysis. He calls them as he sees them, not according to any preconceived result.
Yes, but that does not mean that he (or any of us) is not influenced by a person like Donald Trump. It is sometimes hard to argue for such a flaming asshat, and cutting him an even break is even harder.
One of my faults is that I have had to learn to be detached from personalities in my 12-step work and that detachment influences other things. So, I can deal with asshats more rationally and calmly that most. Lots and lots of practice. Doesn’t mean I come to like them, I’m just able to look at them as humans, too.
Not everyone can, or wants to.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:39 amMy understanding is that New York law is clear that if no bonds posted, assets can be levied on. The prosecutor can choose not to levy but a court can’t enjoin or stop it absent a bond.
The playing field seems even more tilted than I thought. If an (arguably) silly high judgement cannot be effectively appealed, then the trial judge has enormous and largely unchecked power. At which point federal due process claims seem likely.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:44 amI am willing to bet that a federal judge can enjoin anything a state wants to do.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:45 amAll lawyers, even prosecutors, have crazy, crummy, or worse clients/cases. You quickly learn not to analyze the law based on how much you like or dislike your client or the case. You analyze the law carefully because your ethics and reputation require it.
On an unrelated note, isn’t the deadline near for Trump to appeal the New York decision?
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:47 amIn requesting a federal injunction, Trump would have an argument that he could suffer irreparable harm from having his assets seized. But he also has to show he has a likelihood of succeeding on the merits of his appeal and that the equities are in his favor.
I think the likelihood of success is poor. I understand you don’t like the judges valuations but why are they clearly erroneous?
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 10:55 amFor example:
BuDuh (4214e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:00 amI understand you don’t like the judges valuations but why are they clearly erroneous?
Because he did things like used assessments as valuations rather than real estate appraisals. In many places assessments are wildly different due to law, practice or stupid assessors. To say that a property that was worth X 40 years ago is still worth X (or 2X) is unreasonable.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:04 amIn particular, Florida law does not reassess property annually, but only increases it by a flat 3%. If the property is sold, it is then marked to market, but only then.
So, if you have a property for 30 years, the assessor’s valuation will be about 2.5X the original purchase price, while the actual value — if it increased at a nominal 7% — would be about 8 times the original price.
If, as in this case, substantial renovations were done and the area was increasing faster than the national average — say 12% per year — the actual value would be 30X the purchase price.
Using the assessor’s valuation seems a rookie error, and just because the judge hired someone to do this for him does not mean that someone was objective or fair.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:13 amNow, people mention the deed restriction. This was available to the lender who accepted Trump’s open-market valuation. Why would they do this? Typically big banks are not stupid and would not loan hundreds of millions on a property they could not sell for a 10th or that.
IANAL (and not a Florida one either), but I’d guess that the deed restriction doesn’t apply to a creditor in possession. I had a condo at one point with some deed restrictions (e.g. no rentals) where a creditor in possession was exempted.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:18 amThe property value was assessed like the 8 other deed restricted clubs in Palm Beach. It is not a home and cannot be subdivided. And assessors base their values on property appraisal rules:
There are legal reasons to value properties differently. If I only owned a partial interest in my home, I could not claim it is undervalued if the value is reduced. In this case, Trump owns property that is deed-restricted as a private club. That affects its value.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:27 amDeed restrictions apply to anyone in the chain of title, i.e., any legal owner after the restriction was imposed.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:28 amDeed restrictions apply to anyone in the chain of title, i.e., any legal owner after the restriction was imposed.
Lessee what Letitia James sells it for then.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:30 amOnce lenders decide to lend, the loans are based on all collateral, personal guarantees, and interest rates are adjusted to reflect risk. Some lenders make bad loans.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:31 amShe has to go through a Florida court to levy on an asset in that State. Ditto for properties in any other State.
Typically you file your judgment in a court with notice of an intent to levy.
She may do that but will probably start in New York with assets there, including any bank accounts, because the New York courts can take notice of any judgments in that State. It is easier to levy in the State where the judgment is
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/20/2024 @ 11:34 amThe Trump case in NY seems pretty straightforward to me. I know that commercial real estate is different animal. But I pay property tax in my state. If if was discovered that I had misrepresented either the value of my house to my lender or to the government to keep my taxes low (or both) I would definitely face consequences. It wouldn’t be 400M in consequences, but then I’m not a billionaire.
Time123 (3087bc) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:05 pmIt is not necessarily true that your tax valuation and your loan valuation are the same. In a Prop 13 state (Florida and NM are that way) the assessment only happens on a property transfer, while the loan value is appraised as the loan is processed. It is not uncommon in California for these to differ by large multiples.
Even if Trump’s property is limited in value as a club (and permanence of that is disputed), the assessor’s formulation is not necessarily a good valuation. The judge also took the low end of the assessor’s guess.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:14 pmI admire your determination.
DRJ (49ab36) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:26 pmYeah, well, it’s flagging. My main issue is the way that NY state rigs the process in its favor, including a high bar for appeals of arbitrary judgements. It makes me want to see every last F.U. item that can be brought to bear, even for Donald effing Trump.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:29 pmMy argument is not pro-Trump but anti-statist.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:30 pmLaws are very status quo because people need rules that are known and dependable
DRJ (49ab36) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:36 pmAs I recall, Trump appealed a $26 million assessed value as being too high, and he got it knocked.
Deed restrictions usually run with the land, but I also recall steveg mentioning that there may have been a way to get it lifted. This is why I say that the best way to know value of the property is to put it on the market and let the market decide, speaking as a person who’s valued commercial real estate since Reagan was president.
Paul Montagu (1e8339) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:42 pmThe assessor’s valuation probably takes into account the deed restrictions on MAL.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:50 pmWhat part of “in perpetuity” is hard to understand?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:53 pmIF the Palm Beach County deed restrictions (as opposed to the are ever lifted, the property tax bill will be huge. As I pointed out in Weekend Open Thread:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/20/2024 @ 12:57 pmSounds very much like Nikki Haley.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/20/2024 @ 1:01 pmAnd the judge swung his level and said “Donnie, you’re a cheater. Donnie, you’re a liar.”
Trump is a very tangled skein. A tortuous labyrinth of duplicity. A bottomless abyss of depravity. I’m sure that the judge took a lot more into consideration than the tax assessor’s valuation of Mar-a-Lago in reaching the judgment.
This case is only one of the more than 4,000 (I read somewhere that it’s 6,000) that he has been involved in. Put a number, any number, on the cost to his adversaries and to the system. And then tell him to go suck a cow chip.
nk (bb1548) — 3/20/2024 @ 2:06 pm
nk (bb1548) — 3/20/2024 @ 2:07 pmlevelgavelTrump Criminal Litigation Watch, NY Edition:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/20/2024 @ 2:08 pmWhat part of “in perpetuity” is hard to understand?
The part where laws say “perpetuity” is only for a fixed period of time.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 8:33 pmThe assessor’s valuation probably takes into account the deed restrictions on MAL.
But in any event are only for the calendar year, ceteris paribus.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 8:35 pmIt turns out that Donnie may have billions from Truth Social, as his True Believers are bidding up the stock.
PT Barnum looks on with approval.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/20/2024 @ 8:37 pmSad!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/21/2024 @ 9:17 amTrump debt will determine what assets the State will try to levy on first.
DRJ (9fbd45) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:09 amChubb handled the E Jean Carroll bond but ultimately declkned this one.
DRJ (9fbd45) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:12 amI wonder what property secures the E Jean Carroll bond. I also wonder what ground he has for appeal.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:19 amWhat happens if a property is auctioned off for substantially more than the judge’s appraisal? Wouldn’t that play into Trump’s appeal?
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:22 amAlso, even if the state intends to seize a property and auction it off, doesn’t due diligence require them to allow potential bidders time to evaluate the property? Assuming, of course, that getting the highest price is important and it’s not just to harm Trump.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:23 amThen there’s the possibility that bidders, who would be unable to give Trump money (e.g. Saudi princes) because it might be a campaign contribution, could buy the properties for Trump’s appraisal number, RFing the judgement pretty terribly, and holding it for him to repurchase if he wanted.
There are all kinds of critters under this log.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:27 am102. Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 10:23 am
They often do not try to get the highest price in more run of the mill (tax lien or water bill) cases.
Of course, this will be watched more.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 3/21/2024 @ 1:57 pmFox News Asks Alina Habba If Donald Trump’s Bond Will Come From Russia
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/21/2024 @ 2:23 pmIt is reported (what?) that Truth Social has become a meme stock at around $42 per share for a total market cap of $6 billion, and that Trump owns 60% of it.
Where did the $6 billion go and is it even legal?
nk (f74636) — 3/21/2024 @ 2:40 pmParting a fool and his money has always been legal.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 4:07 pmYeah, and no $6 billion has passed hands either I just realized. Only whatever somebody paid for it, no matter the current listing price.
nk (c995d2) — 3/21/2024 @ 4:56 pmTrump’s Options:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 3/21/2024 @ 5:25 pmSometimes the bond amount is too much for a litigant to pay but this is not the biggest bond on record. The judgment against Texaco in Pennzoil vs Texaco was over $10 Billion. The bond would have been $13 Billion, which Texaco could not pay.
Texaco appealed to federal court seeking telief from the bond, claiming the bond would bankrupt it. The federal district Court and appeals court said the bond should be reduced to $1 Billion but the Supreme Court said the State court (Texas) had jurisdiction and the federal courts should stay out of it.
Texaco had to file bankruptcy. I think that case would control Trump’s case as to the bond. It doesn’t mean he would have to file bankruptcy but one of his businesses might, because a bankruptcy can stay collection efforts. At this point, the prosecutor is simply collecting a judgment.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/21/2024 @ 6:14 pmSupreme Court opinion here.
Washington Post article here.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/21/2024 @ 6:21 pmI don’t know about New York law. I guess he could ask a New York Court to give him relief from the bond, but the requirement to post bonds on appeal is longstanding and routine in most (maybe all) States. Inability to pay is not an exception in civil cases, just criminal cases.
DRJ (f362ee) — 3/21/2024 @ 6:48 pmFrom your Supreme Court opinion link, DRJ:
I have not looked for the text from Trump’s appeal. Am I correct to assume that this Texaco opinion may not fully apply if he has specific US Constitutional claims in his appeal?
BuDuh (4214e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 6:48 pmSorry to threadjack, but does anyone here know anything about something called “Project 2025”?
Some big fans of the BOAR are promoting it at X/Twitter. It would supposedly…
– Ban all abortion (including pills)
– Deport every illegal
– Rescind all LGBT rights, including marriage
– Give the executive UNCHECKED power, including the right for him/her to create their own Politburo/Deep State.
Sounds like the Trumpies’ ultimate crackpot wet dream.
qdpsteve again (f4e7a8) — 3/21/2024 @ 6:51 pmI think he would have had to raise that in the trial court, Buduh, and he might have.
DRJ (c673a9) — 3/21/2024 @ 6:58 pmHas Trump appealed? I don’t think he has yet. But in general litigants cannot raise issues on appeal unless they were objected to and preserved in the trial court.
I think his attorneys objected to the bond. They may have included objections based on the US Constition.
DRJ (1a9553) — 3/21/2024 @ 7:03 pmConstitution.
DRJ (7f07d8) — 3/21/2024 @ 7:04 pmOk. Thanks, DRJ.
🙂
BuDuh (0f5584) — 3/21/2024 @ 7:56 pmThere were reports about settlement negotiations in Pennzoil vs Texaco. It made sense to settle as opposed to filing bankruotcy, because the parties controled a settlement but bankruptcy introduced countless other variables, creditors, rules, and a court. But they couldn’t find a way to settle. That feels like what might happen with Trump zbd the State prosecutor.
DRJ (9fbd45) — 3/21/2024 @ 8:12 pmI think his attorneys objected to the bond.
I think his attorney’s objected to what the judge had for breakfast.
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 8:45 pmTrump has two main NY appeals: the determination of the penalty amount and the application of the fraud law to activity that did not defraud any identified entity. The first is more likely to succeed to some degree, and that directly translates to the size of the surety he has to provide.
But it’s a good question, what appeals has he made?
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 8:52 pmIt’s black letter law in New York that defendants in civil suits must post the full judgment amount to stay execution of the judgment.
Trump again is asking for an exception to what all other defendants must do, which is why I don’t think the appeals court will grant any relief.
Trump has appealed Judge Engoron’s decision. Engoron has also ordered Trump’s lawyers to inform the financial monitor overseeing the Trump Organization of their efforts to obtain the bond.
Rip Murdock (b7c7da) — 3/21/2024 @ 8:54 pmTrump again is asking for an exception to what all other defendants must do
Never never ever? Are you certain of that?
Kevin M (8676e4) — 3/21/2024 @ 8:58 pmI “never ever” said that-it was an observation that Trump has consistently asked for exceptions to general rules-like total immunity for his actions on January 6th and his declarations that he can designate classified information as personal documents.
I’m sure other defendants have complained about their bonds, but apparently to no avail (as such cases haven’t been reported.)
Rip Murdock (4f4246) — 3/21/2024 @ 9:16 pmIn Pennzoil, they did polling before the verdict,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 3/22/2024 @ 1:50 am