Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Let’s go!
First news item
Huh. I guess we missed the indictments of previous presidents at the end of their terms… And, at least in my lifetime, that would have been a number of presidents going down…
Look, we’ve already experienced the awful fallout from the former president’s illegal efforts to subvert a legitimate election, seen his complete disregard for the rule of law, and witnessed his clear disdain for the Constitution in his call for the “termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.” As Ms. Cheney accurately observed at the time: No honest person can now deny that Trump is an enemy of the Constitution.
This latest demand for “full immunity,” while awaiting a ruling by Supreme Court, is the cheap rant of a guilty man trying desperately to stay out of prison. It most certainly has nothing to do with the furtherance of democracy. And it most certainly has nothing to do with any future presidents – except God save us – if Trump gets re-elected… Along with trying to save himself, this latest demand reveals his compelling urge to rule like his idols: Putin and Xi. The thuggish authoritarian bottled up inside Trump is beyond frustrated that he is remains constrained by pesky annoyances like the Constitution and rule of law. And make no mistake, without the necessary guardrails, his inner-thug would run wild. And no aide or advisor would be able to rein him in. They never have been (see: 2016-2020). He has shown us who he is, repeatedly. And for some, an authoritarian, even a “dictator” Trump is just who they want:
MICHAEL SHURE: The other day, Donald Trump said on his first day is going to be a dictator for a day.
TRUMP FAN: I like that! Yeah, I like that!
MICHAEL SHURE: Would you rather have Donald Trump as a dictator for four years or reelect Joe Biden for four years?
TRUMP FAN: I would rather have Donald Trump. I’d like to see the repeal the Roosevelt law so that he can be a president for a lot more than four years. But we this country, needs a dictator. I hate to say that, but it’s the truth.
Sad, indeed.
Hannity: What is your closing message to the people of New Hampshire?
Trump: … You take immunity from the president, so important, you will have a president that's not going to be able to do anything. pic.twitter.com/oMbBudzlFu
— Acyn (@Acyn) January 19, 2024
Second news item
Meanwhile, after the Trump’s Iowa win, I was gobsmacked by a suggested strategery to persuade suburban Republican women to vote for Trump: insult them. Here is the quote:
So now that it’s going to be Trump, the entire argument for the fall, and I mean the entire argument, has to be how to convince suburban women to be pragmatic with their vote, something they’re not predisposed to do. Trump needs to start that effort tonight.
— Duane Patterson (@Radioblogger) January 16, 2024
Do Republicans really believe that insulting half the population with a patronizingly outdated and inaccurate generalization of women is the way to get more women on board with a foul, dishonest narcissistic lunatic who has a bit of an ego problem? If this sort of dipshittery is what Republicans believe will be effective with suburban women, then they are nuttier than I thought…and they should definitely employ this tactic, at all costs!
But what do I know? I’m just a silly suburban woman who quit the Republican Party because I saw that the the Party sold its collective soul to a corrupt, narcissistic liar with authoritarian urges and a compelling interest in only himself. So much so, in fact, that he even fomented an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. In other words, I looked at the evidence before me, studied the facts as they became known, and then made what I believed to be the logical decision. (Insert *wink* emoji here.)
For more reasons influencing my decision to leave the Republican Party, see Item #1.
Third news item
Congress narrowly averted a partial government shutdown, buying a few extra weeks to try to work out an agreement on a set of bills that will fund the government for the rest of the fiscal year.
After several days of nail biting over Friday’s looming deadline, which would have seen four of 12 government funding bills expiring, both chambers passed the short-term funding bill — allowing them to get out of town as another snowstorm barrels toward the East Coast.
There were 107 Republicans that backed the bill and 106 opposing it. 207 Democrats supported it, with two opposed.
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene had already threatened to oust him as speaker, à la Kevin McCarthy, if he allows a vote on a package being negotiated in the Senate. Her tipping point:
…Ms Greene said that her red line to oust Mr Johnson would be additional funding for Ukraine.
“For me, it’s the United States Congress, in the entire federal government would really be waging a war against Russia itself in Ukraine at this point, funding this war when it’s pretty much over,” she said.
She needs to go.
P.S. Speaker Johnson told Fox News that he speaks regularly with Donald Trump, specifically about the ongoing border negotiations. Additionally:
Trump allies on Capitol Hill have privately lobbied the former president to come out vocally against any Senate compromise as he rails on immigration on the campaign trail and has little appetite for giving President Joe Biden a victory on the hot-button issue.
And after Trump publicly lambasted a potential Senate deal, GOP critics and supporters of the former president were in unison: Trump’s position will make it perilous – if not impossible – for a wide-swath of Republicans to get behind any bipartisan deal. And that could have the effect of derailing the package altogether, which would include emergency aid package for Ukraine and Israel.
Fourth news item
The Department of Justice released its report on the horrific mass shooting at Uvalde:
It described insufficient planning and major departures from established active-shooter protocols. After the shooting had ended, investigators described a chaotic scene in which dead bodies were transported in ambulances and injured students were loaded onto buses. One teacher died on a sidewalk outside the school, where she was being treated…
“The extent of misinformation, misguided and misleading narratives, leaks, and lack of communication about what happened on May 24 is unprecedented and has had an extensive, negative impact on the mental health and recovery of the family members and other victims, as well as the entire community of Uvalde,” the Department of Justice report said.
The law enforcement response to the shooting was “a failure that should not have happened,” an emotional Attorney General Merrick Garland said in a news conference Thursday, announcing the findings of the Justice Department’s year-long review into the massacre.
And then there is this:
“Other than the attacker, the Committee did not find any ‘villains’ in the course of its investigation,” the report said. “There is no one to whom we can attribute malice or ill motives. Instead, we found systemic failures and egregiously poor decision making.”
…
Investigators said it was not their job to determine whether officers should be held accountable, saying that decisions rests with each law enforcement agency.
Fifth news item
Former dean of Harvard hits nail on head:
Why antisemitism seems to be a problem at Harvard and other universities is one of the still-unanswered questions that precipitated the University’s downward spiral.
But, it surely is not Claudine Gay’s fault. It is not because Harvard admits antisemitic students or hires antisemitic faculty. No one is suggesting there are comparable antisemitism problems in other kinds of institutions — such as hospitals or libraries — so there must be something that uniquely happens in universities.
That something must be the source of our woes.
***
Unapologetic antisemitism — whether the incidents are few or numerous — is a college phenomenon because of what we teach, and how our teachings are exploited by malign actors.
The Harvard online course catalog has a search box. Type in “decolonize.” That word — though surely not the only lens through which to view the current relationship between Europe and the rest of the world — is in the titles of seven courses and the descriptions of 18 more.
Try “oppression” and “liberation.” Each is in the descriptions of more than 80 courses. “Social justice” is in over 100. “White supremacy” and “Enlightenment” are neck and neck, both ahead of “scientific revolution” but behind “intersectionality.”
Though word frequency is an imperfect measure and the precise counts are muddied by duplicate numberings and courses at MIT, this experiment supports the suspicion that the Harvard curriculum has become heavily slanted toward recent fashions of the progressive left.
Proposed remedies:
The political bias in our faculty is now widely accepted. One solution is to use a kind of affirmative action program for conservative thinkers to change the faculty, but that idea is noxious and misses a crucial point.
Professors should not be carrying their ideologies into the classroom. Our job as teachers of “citizens and citizen-leaders” is not to indoctrinate students, but to prepare them to grapple with all of the ideas they will encounter in the societies they will serve.
Instead, individual faculty might diversify what they teach. Committees and departments could enforce a standard that curricula exhibit intellectual diversity and a variety of agreed-upon topics and techniques.
Read the whole thing. It’s worth your time.
Sixth news item
Word:
"We can't aid Ukraine because we have a budget deficit." "We can't aid Ukraine because we need the money for Taiwan." "We can't aid Ukraine while our border is broken." Trust me, my friends: These people aren't for Ukraine. Everything else is a fig leaf.
— Jay Nordlinger (@jaynordlinger) January 19, 2024
I’m not going to go on a rant about why the U.S. should continue to provide aid to Ukraine. I’ve explained it repeatedly. Suffice it to say, we absolutely can, and should. And shame on Republicans.
Seventh news item
President Biden responds to questions about the effectiveness of U.S. airstrikes on the Houthis:
“When you say working, are they stopping the Houthis, no. Are they going to continue, yes,” Biden said in an exchange with reporters before departing the White House for a domestic policy speech in North Carolina.
Um, I’m going to need more information…
Have a great weekend.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (8e902f) — 1/19/2024 @ 9:52 amTrump is openly advocating that the President should be able to commit any crime he wants with impunity, and it isn’t having *any* effect on his support.
The Republic is going to fall because the people of the country no longer *want* a Republic — or, at least, a big chunk of the country doesn’t and another big chunk is more worried about policy they dislike than they are about keeping a Republic.
The Republic was nice, and I doubt any of us will like what replaces it.
aphrael (6f5ded) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:03 amAgain, it’s a shame we have a president who will cut off aid to Ukraine in order to keep his insane open borders policies.
lloyd (3e0aba) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:05 amToo many Americans don’t see or understand just how much of a danger Trump is to the Republic. Whether through willful blindness or just cluelessness, I don’t know. At some point, though, when a man who wants to hold the most powerful position in the world – again – and repeatedly, repeatedly shows you who he is, tells you who he is, how can you not know? And why would you not believe him?
Dana (8e902f) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:08 am@2 A country run by prosecutors is not a Republic. Presidential immunity has its drawbacks, but the alternative being presented to us is worse.
lloyd (3e0aba) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:09 amBiden appoints judge with anti-Semitic ties, and the Democrats approve. Ted Cruz calls them out.
lloyd (3e0aba) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:19 amA Coveted Endorsement:
For those keeping score, Trump is 3-0-2 in endorsements from former Republican presidential candidates, while Haley and DeSantis are 0-3-2. The two are Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson, who haven’t endorsed any of the remaining candidates.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:22 am“A country run by prosecutors is not a Republic.”
How is Jack Smith’s case weak? The GOP has no business nominating someone who is legitimately indicted in 4 separate cases….while being civilly liable for sexual assault and financial fraud. What are you thinking!?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/19/2024 @ 11:39 amNo honest person can now deny that Trump is an enemy of the Constitution.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 11:57 amThere are some people who engage in a hopeless cause: (they have no political sense)
https://www.andrewyang.com/blog/my-endorsement-of-dean-phillips
And it’s not true that 50 other Democrats can defeat Trump. Because there will be questions about wokeness etc.
Third party – and different third party candidates at the top of the ballot in different states but the same vice presidential candidate – and warnings that are likely to have a constitutional crisis if either Donald Trump or Joe Biden wins – is the way to go.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:03 pmDana @4: It’s cluelessness. And those endorsing alternative nominees in either major party are also clueless.
And those who want No Labels to have only one presidential candidate in all states as well.
It’s easy not to know or think. People are in siloes.
And the problem is people do believe him, (what he says) and sometimes he is right (like political indictments) But where he is right, it is not important.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:10 pm@8 Jack Smith’s case is very strong, only because of the venue. It won’t be a fair trial in front of an impartial jury, as guaranteed by the 6A. Strength or weakness of the case is irrelevant. The case is being brought because Smith doesn’t want the people to come to their own judgment and vote for Trump if they like, which are things people are allowed to do in a Republic that’s not of the banana variety.
lloyd (9fb30f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:14 pmWhen Biden won’t protect citizens it’s up to governors to take matters into their own hands. Kudos to Gregg Abbott. Shame on Maura Healey. Looks like this maggot had been bussed from Texas to Boston.
lloyd (9fb30f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:23 pmBiden attached Israel, (and Taiwan while they are at it) and border policy, to the bill to lift up support for Ukraine. He’s being outmaneuvered.
It may end with a separate bill for Israel, a postponement of extra aid for Taiwan, no change in law on immigration, and Ukraine aid being voted down.
The argument being given against Ukraine aid is that Ukraine has no end game. Is it recovering Donbass? The Crimea?? They imply that’s impossible and/or the war will go on for years. They sometimes pretend a draw is on the table or can be reached with Russia a la North Korea and South Korea in 1953.
Well, Israel also has no end game, besides defeating or deterring their enemies on all sides. And Netanyahu is the least hawkish of all those in the Israeli government.
Biden and the Israeli government disagree on the end game in Gaza – what happens after defeating Hamas. Biden and Israel also disagree on how long the war is likely to last. Biden wants things over in a few weeks, and this informs his policy on aid for Gaza’s population and the Red Sea and Iran and Lebanon, while Netanyahu thinks this will go on for at least the rest of 2024.
Biden wants what he considers the legitimate government of Gaza to be put in charge, which is the Palestinian Authority. (Everyone agrees it is not Hamas.)
Biden agrees with Israel the PA is no good the way it is – that it is at least corrupt – but thinks it can be reformed easily.
Israel has lots of ideas but no one wants to take them up on it.
The default it is heading to is Israeli rule, which neither Israel nor the United States wants.
Israel is leaning toward appointing some local leaders with some support among the population to at least be in charge of distributing humanitarian aid, while maintaining overall Israeli military control.
All this has been pushed off till later.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:30 pmHaley said if independents and conservative Democrats want to come back to the Republican Party and vote for her based on her platform, “I want them back.”
“That’s how we win,” she said.
She’s not wrong. MAGA purists would rather lose though.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:40 pmJoe Biden would do better negotiating with Donald Trump. He could come up with a scenario is which lack of parole authority could harm the United States.
For instance if North Korea invades South Korea, attempting to deport South Koreans could be bad.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:41 pmJoe Biden is bribing Mexico to keep away migrants and he gets criticized for that
https://nypost.com/2024/01/18/opinion/has-biden-bribed-mexico-to-control-border-and-help-him-win-election
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:45 pmInstead, individual faculty might diversify what they teach. Committees and departments could enforce a standard that curricula exhibit intellectual diversity and a variety of agreed-upon topics and techniques.
And the MSM should include more information from conservative sources. The major newspapers have the same problems, for the same reasons.
As long as the ideological balance of the faculty or newsroom is as far Left as it is (and intolerant of any within who are not so) the outcomes will be the same.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:46 pmThe only way to move the GOP away from Donald Trump is to have a candidate who is not Donald Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:47 pmSenator Tim Scott of South Carolina will endorse Donald J. Trump on Friday evening at a rally in New Hampshire, according to two people briefed on the matter.
He was forced out of the race when the debates proved he was too stupid to be President. He demonstrates this further.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:49 pmSmith is required by the Constitution (the Sixth Amendment) to try the election interference case where the (alleged) crimes were committed.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:51 pmAssumes facts not in evidence.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:52 pmNo Labels is looking better and better. I’d hate to see Biden running unopposed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:55 pmI’m sure you wouldn’t say that if he endorsed Haley. 😉
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:55 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:52 pm
You think Mexico would change policy for free? And that’s what Obama did.
From previous link:
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:58 pmWhy don’t you send your idea to No Labels and see what they think of it.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 12:58 pmAside from the extremely weak circumstantial “evidence,” what direct evidence is there of your theory?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:00 pmDuane Patterson, who turns out to be a producer for Hugh Hewitt’s radio show, sounds like my kind of guy:
“Hey honey, when you’re done in the kitchen, bring me in another beer and we’re going to talk about why you need to stop being so dizzy and vote for Donald Trump this time around.”
JVW (1ad43e) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:01 pmhttps://www.wsj.com/articles/a-dictator-cant-bring-peace-to-gaza-day-after-hamas-war-37d2e038
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:02 pmHe was forced out of the race when the debates proved he was too stupid to be President.
Yeah, Joe Biden put the final nail in the coffin to the idea that anyone is too stupid to be President.
JVW (1ad43e) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:03 pmThe two bills that prevent a government shutdown go to March 1 and March 8 and the State of the Union message will be delivered on March 7,
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:03 pmSo, for the MAGAs, if you follow Trump’s logic, then it must also follow that Biden is also unfettered to have DEVGRU (Seal Team 6 isn’t a thing, for 18 years), assasinate Trump.
MAGA’s are either actively counting on everyone else to have some personal limit, are actively stupid, or just stupid.
Goose, gander and all that. Biden’s getting the impeachment treatment because his kid probably traded on the Biden name. Every heard of every one of Trump’s adult children? They make Beau look like a choir boy; coke, guns and some hookers, that’s literally Donald, JR’r, and Eric’s 20’s and 30’s. Jared and Ivanka cleared several billion of working in the WH. Trump already lost one sexual harrasment civil judgement, this is for the what happened after that, his companies are going to get dissolved as a fraud, if he’s not running for president, he’s getting run to the poor house. That’s why they want the presidency to be a perm. free fire zone to peddle influence, not the old style shady, but asking for a bribe and being free to take a few billion, it’s not like Putin hasn’t put several hundred billion in stolen loot around. That’s like real money.
Good lord, Nikki Haley isn’t the sharpest tool, but I’d vote for her 1,000 times out of a 100.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:06 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/us/politics/atomic-bomb-secret-funding-congress.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:07 pmThere’s no divorce like an angry divorce:
https://www.ajc.com/politics/bank-records-da-willis-and-special-prosecutor-traveled-together-during-trump-probe/ZNDCH5RHDFGC5CKRWNS7HI2R5M/
*sigh*
If it weren’t real life, this could be one of those Netflix crime things. (Or a Series run of The Lincoln Lawyer). I like that these guys brought Mom along for the cruise.
Appalled (77358f) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:13 pmOccam’s Razor: I’m sure Mexico would rather have a Biden-led US government on their border than one led by any of the Republicans, all who have threatened US military intervention.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:17 pmI think people are getting to hung up on “Trump’s claims he would have immunity if he ordered Seal Team 6 to assassinate Biden” schtick.
It was a rhetorical extreme position during the DC Circuit Court where arguments are routinely taken to extremes to test out principled positions.
Trump’s team is advancing that Presidents have immunity.
The Court and other advocates sets up extreme position to test that ‘what-if’ positions.
At the end of the day, the court is going to have to determine whether or not Presidents have immunity and to which certain degree.
My personally, Presidents should enjoy a similar immunity that Congress, Judges and polices gets (qualified immunity) and come up with a determination that what can pierce it. Like, courts can determine should government official get QI and how should Presidents be adjudicated… Maybe only be impeachment conviction?
whembly (5f7596) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:53 pm@34
Yeah, she and Wade would have to step down imo.
I think, at that point, the GA Attorney General would have to select a new prosecutor to continue the case. That would definitely shift the case till next year, as I don’t see how a brand new prosecutor can simply “pick up where Wade left off”.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/19/2024 @ 1:55 pmThe much nicer Dana quoted:
It may, however, be her responsibility.
This all stems from an utterly brainless response that presidents Liz Magill, Sally Kornbluth, and Claudine Gay hashed out together, with lawyers helping, that anyone with an IQ above room temperature should have seen as both stupid and inflammatory. The problem is ‘radical chic,’ with the young siding with the oppressed and downtrodden without ever considering that perhaps, just perhaps, they are responsible for their own condition.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, hoping that the Palestinians would use the opportunity to build something decent. Instead, they trashed what the Israelis had left them, and put Hamas in power.
The Palestinians have been in the curious position of being able to win their war of liberation by not fighting anymore, but they’re just too plain stupid to recognize it.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:16 pmItem 5 Progressive Intelligentsia ( which is most ) You and us don’t make we. In lower grades their are more openings then teachers to fill them especially in lower paying red states so when the right wants to dictate ideology teachers have alternatives. When I was growing up liberals would say we and conservatives would say you and me don’t make we commie! Today conservatives say we and progressives who have displaced discredited establishment liberals (except for the DNC) say you and me don’t make we nazi! Democrats don’t want to breathe the same air trumpsters breathe.
asset (2f3a6f) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:17 pmMr Finkelman wrote:
Great but rarely spoken truths: Ukraine cannot defeat Russia, regardless of how much aid we send them, unless we send actual ground troops and Air Force fighters, which would put the United States/NATO in direct war with a totalitarian nation with a strategic nuclear arsenal. Israel will not lose against Hamas, even if we don’t send them a single penny. And Taiwan cannot defeat Communist China if China invades, and there’s really nothing we can do about it; China is roughly 100 miles from Taiwan, while we are 6,000 miles away.
Aid for any of those nations is a waste of money. I could support some replenishment aid for Israel after the war is over, but even without it, Israel will survive and prosper.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:29 pm@38 To get people to do what they don’t want to do you apply negative reenforcement technique. B.F. Skinner. Israel is doing that now. There will be consequences if applied wrongly. As for the colleges politics is a chainsaw not a scalpel. They have past an old fogey like me with defund the police (how will we arrest enemies of the people?) and this pro hamas. I disagree ;but I understand pro ceasefire. You complain about my side yelling racism all the time. Well the side I am reluctantly supporting yells anti-semitism when it suites them.
asset (2f3a6f) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:31 pmI confess to being somewhat amused that some of President Trump’s supporters are claiming that Mrs Haley had a couple of extra-marital affairs.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:33 pmA commenter who is an asset to this site wrote:
In both events, those yelling frequently do their sides little good; if everything is racist, then ‘racist’ has no meaning, and if everything is anti-Semitic, then anti-Semitism has no meaning.
But, having said that, while it is possible to be opposed to Israeli government policies without it devolving into anti-Semitism, it is an intellectual trick I have rarely seen accomplished.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:37 pm@40 The same was said that russia would be in kiev with in a week. Their are good article on the internet on how Taiwan with Us aid will defend against china. The english channel was only 10 miles wide yet hitler was unable to invade England. China’s leadership is less secure at the top then putin and they have seen what has happened in the Ukraine if they miscalculate. Our air force and navy is designed for that type of war.
asset (2f3a6f) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:39 pmDemocrat, former Clinton administration official, and WHO advisor falls for debunked right wing conspiracy theory about Covid origins (/sarc)
lloyd (fbdd73) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:42 pm@43 I do it and most others do it to. I oppose the crooked netanyahu and west bank settlement polices of likud especially expelling palestinians yet support the destruction of hamas as getting rid of evil.
asset (2f3a6f) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:45 pmSuffolk University/NBC10 Boston/Boston Globe NH Primary Daily Tracking Poll 1/19/24
Tracking tables.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 2:59 pmSays the guy who has demanded MAGA supoorters be kicked out of the party.
NJRob (e87afd) — 1/19/2024 @ 3:25 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/01/mann-v-steyn-gets-under-way.php
And another trial in DC where the left has abused the process for 12 years to try and silence Mark Steyn, leaving him with multiple heart attacks and attached to a wheel chair12 years waiting for a trial is justice in DC while bleeding him dry
NJRob (e87afd) — 1/19/2024 @ 3:27 pmThat “great but imperfect” theme may be the closest Trump has ever gotten to humility, self awareness.
steveg (0056c0) — 1/19/2024 @ 3:53 pmWhat we do know is the Mexican President sent Biden a list of things Biden could to to move Mexico to help the US out and now Mexicans are helping. So which items on that list are we fulfilling? It is a fair question. If Biden was able to run to past form form, he’d help Hunter get put on the board of PDVSA and lift some sanctions on Venezuela. A two-fer one. Too much scrutiny now. Its an election year and so Mexico has some leverage on Biden… the Mexicans got something
steveg (0056c0) — 1/19/2024 @ 4:03 pmSource?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2024 @ 4:06 pmNikki Haley’s real problem: she’s not vindictive and the other guy is. You can cross her and come back. Cross Trump and your grandchildren will get death threats.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 5:36 pmSays the guy who has demanded MAGA supoorters be kicked out of the party.
I was being nice when I said that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 5:37 pmI’m sure you wouldn’t say that if he endorsed Haley.
The second sentence would be different. I had contributed to him, then he spoke unpackaged and OMG.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 5:38 pmYeah, Joe Biden put the final nail in the coffin to the idea that anyone is too stupid to be President.
Tim Scott has 30 years to go.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 5:41 pmI confess to being somewhat amused that some of President Trump’s supporters are claiming that Mrs Haley had a couple of extra-marital affairs.
The Daily Mail, the British version of the Weekly World News, is now banned from Haley events. Dredging up a 15 yo debunked smear, for a new last-minute smear, is pretty despicable.
And this shows how desperate Trump has become. If he loses NH, he starts to look like Hillary in 2008.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 5:45 pmRip,
you are playing dumb. It was cited all over a week ago including on here.
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/world/mexico-s-20-billion-demand-from-biden-to-help-fix-the-border-mess-president-amlo-asks-for-huge-latin-american-investment-in-return-for-helping-migrants-head-north/ar-AA1mEsC0
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/19/2024 @ 6:02 pmhttps://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/01/16/chicago-deep-freeze-has-created-a-tesla-graveyard/
Useless garbage and what the Biden administration is trying to mandate as the only option to drive “or not” if you live in the cold.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/19/2024 @ 6:58 pmPresident Joe Biden admitted the southern border isn’t secure just moments after saying he had no idea why Republicans were moving to impeach Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas.
“What do you say to Republicans who are trying to impeach Mayorkas?” Fox News White House correspondent Jacqui Heinrich asked the president.
“I don’t get it,” Biden responded.
Moments later Heinrich asked Biden if he believes the border is secure.
“No, it’s not,” Biden responded.
lloyd (52d4f5) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:07 pmMarge is effectively on the side of Putin, which means she’s on the side of evil and war crimes and terrorism, not America.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:34 pmYou’re right, Dana, she’s gotta go. She’s a stain, like Trump’s a stain, and Speaker Johnson is scarcely better.
That is your speculation, not an objective truth. Ukraine has the will to defend itself from Russian invaders, what they need are the means.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:42 pmUseless garbage and what the Biden administration is trying to mandate as the only option to drive “or not” if you live in the cold.
Musk’s idea of “beta testing” involves a lot of betas.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:43 pmwhich would put the United States/NATO in direct war with a totalitarian nation with a strategic nuclear arsenal.
Or would put Russia in a war it cannot win without risking total destruction. It’s a matter of spin. Sooner or later we go to war or we start giving up territory ourselves.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:45 pmThanks for the link. I missed it.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:47 pmThat’s a big if.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:51 pmJoe is mentally diminished, true, but Trump is mentally unhinged and also mentally diminished. He keeps mixing up Obama and Biden, and how else to explain him confusing Pelosi and Nikki.
And even the accusations about Pelosi were lies. No, he didn’t offer 10,000 National Guard for J6. No, she wasn’t in charge of security. No, the committee didn’t delete and destroy evidence. But his cult worshippers will nevertheless still believe him, because it’s a cult.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/19/2024 @ 7:57 pmlloyd, what do you think the current border policy is. Not the meme “Open borders! lol” but the actual policy?
Nic (896fdf) — 1/19/2024 @ 8:47 pmThat’s a big if.
Well, perhaps, but Trump’s behavior shows fear.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 9:32 pmI doubt Trump has much to fear from Haley when the Suffolk University/ NBC10 Boston/Boston Globe NH Primary Daily Tracking
shows him at +16 just days before the primary. Trump’s not afraid Haley, he is out to destroy her.
Even Sununu concedes that Haley won’t come in first in the primary, after predicting just last month she would “absolutely” win NH in a “landslide.”
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/19/2024 @ 9:50 pmSorry for the messy formatting.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/19/2024 @ 9:50 pmSix days ago: Texas blocked border agents attempting to save 3 migrants who drowned, U.S. officials say
Two days later, the truth gets its pants on: DOJ Filing Shows Texas Did Not Stop Border Patrol from Saving Drowning Migrants
lloyd (e30eda) — 1/19/2024 @ 9:56 pmComing in second in a two-person race (as Haley has declared the primary campaign to be) is the same as coming in last.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:06 pmTrump is driving independents, women and generally people of goodwill to the polls with his racist and sexist attacks and smears. I really don’t know what type of people would cast a vote for the out-of-control racist goon. It boggles the mind; it’s beyond mere “deplorables”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:19 pm“Despicables” ?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/19/2024 @ 10:20 pmEvidence? The only primary has been the Iowa caucus, where he broke two records: first Republican candidate to break 50% and widest winning margin (30%).
It’s attitudes like that which confirm to his supporters (and Trump’s own) feelings of victimhood and paranoia, which in turn increases his grip on Republican voters (currently at 66%, +54 over Haley nationally) and increases his personal popularity (currently at 77.5%) among Republicans.
I assume your “deplorables” or “despicables ” include the 56,500 Iowans who caucused for him on Monday, and Gov. Sununu, who said just last week that he would vote for Trump even if he was a convicted felon. And we know who he backs in the NH primary.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/19/2024 @ 11:54 pm@72 Not much of a excuse like the uvalde excuses. They had already drowned ,but texas didn’t know that. Still its biden’s fault for allowing texas to go unpunished.
asset (3f2940) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:45 amThe best one I have heard this election an orangutan escape from his zoo keepers and is running around in new hampshire trying to get elected to president again! The other animals sing the orange jesus returns!
asset (3f2940) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:49 am@76 It depends what you think of trump/republican populists. 80% of republicans voted for someone other then haley. Trump, desatan and vivek. Obama carried Iowa twice so many were Obama/trump voters. They voted first democrat populist over romney and then republican populist in 2016 cancun ted and trump in primary over the other 15 dwarfs. Then trump populist over corporate stooge corrupt hilary clinton and then biden. If haley can’t get close in new hampshire with independents voting where can she? No labels and green’s Jill Stein will make political life tough for biden and the corporate establishment democrats in 2024. With every thing going for biden he barely won the three states he needed to win the electoral college by combined 43,000 votes with green party kicked off the ballot in those states. Jill stein will be on the ballot this time in those states. Jamie dimon at davos said his company will do just fine if trump wins. Haley must do well in NH or turn out the lights the parties over! Maybe she should cry like hillary did in 2008 new hampshire primary it helped her win.
asset (28b931) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:19 am“deplorables”
“Despicables” ?
Like Tesla (the car, not the scientist), Covfefe works insidiously. It offers tarted up crap marketed to enrich and aggrandize a conman as the solution to the world’s problems. And some people fall for it. If they did not, the conman would be peddling something else.
nk (fa08d2) — 1/20/2024 @ 3:55 am@77 “They had already drowned ,but texas didn’t know that.”
Wrong again.
Here are the facts, as presented by the side that hasn’t already lied on record multiple times:
lloyd (1a71f0) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:59 amLloyd,
the narrative, not the truth, is what matters to the open borders liars and the media. They will continue to push their lies to suit their agenda and those who are sympathetic to them due to being anti-populist, anti-American or just globalist will remain silent.
NJRob (1c0ae3) — 1/20/2024 @ 7:43 amI’m sure in the end Haley will end up voting for Trump in general election because she has demonstrated she will to do so, even if he is convicted.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/20/2024 @ 7:49 amIt’s attitudes like that which confirm to his supporters (and Trump’s own) feelings of victimhood and paranoia
I hear that rapists think all women are against them and Bonnie & Clyde blamed their killing spree on the corrupt bankers.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:23 amAbout half of US Republicans could spurn Trump if he is convicted, Reuters/Ipsos poll shows
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:29 amWhembly #36:
It convinced Trump. Trump this week:
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:54 amI linked the New York Times. Despite its clear bias, it is beats Truth Social by a mile.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:56 amHere’s a quote from Adam Smith that — I think — helps explain item 6:
Jim Miller (7b1f74) — 1/20/2024 @ 9:22 am“The discipline of colleges and universities is in general contrived, not for the benefit of the students, but for the interest, or more properly speaking, for the ease of the masters. Its object is, in all cases, to maintain the authority of the master, and whether he neglects or performs his duty, to oblige the students in all cases to behave to him as if he performed it with the greatest diligence and ability. It seems to presume perfect wisdom and virtue in the one order, and the greatest weakness and folly in the other. Where the masters, however, really perform their duty, there are no examples, I believe, that the greater part of the students ever neglect theirs. No discipline is ever requisite to force attendance upon lectures which are really worth the attending, as is well known wherever any such lectures are given.”
#86 and #87 DRJ – Good to see you commenting, again.
And here’s a general thought about the NYT and other “mainstream” newspapers. The more important part of their bias is what stories they choose to cover, and what stories they choose not to cover.
My local monopoly newspaper, the Seattle Times, in recent years has been providing so many examples of that kind of bias that it must have hurt their circulation.
For instance they did not mention Abraham Lincoln’s birthday last year, and covered Easter only with a weather forecast, buried deep inside the paper. Almost everyone likes reading about Lincoln. Even in this very secular part of the nation, some people do still celebrate Easter, about a million at a guess, in the Seattle Times circulation area.
Jim Miller (7b1f74) — 1/20/2024 @ 9:33 amIt’s highly unlikely that Trump will be “currently serving time in prison” in November 2024.
More from the Reuters/Ipsos poll:
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/20/2024 @ 9:54 amClarification:
The Reuters/Ipsos poll cited in post 90 is a different poll than the one cited in post 85.
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/20/2024 @ 9:58 amIt seems important to you that newspapers mention Lincoln’s birthday. Why is that?
Rip Murdock (1fe61e) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:03 amRIP Mary Weiss, lead singer of The Shangri-Las (75).
Rip Murdock (e3d7ff) — 1/20/2024 @ 11:40 amI would never describe The Go Go’s (or Blondie for that matter) as a punk band; more like power pop. You can understand the lyrics.
Rip Murdock (e3d7ff) — 1/20/2024 @ 11:44 amThis is a great post. I endorse everything said in it.
Patterico (687a05) — 1/20/2024 @ 11:53 am(Haley’s stump speech) mainly (is) litany of unrelated policy goals: mental-health care for veterans, term limits, vocational classes in high schools, the elimination of the federal gas tax and earmark spending, cognitive tests for presidential candidates over 75, and so on.
Let’s consider how Haley could implement her proposals:
Rip Murdock (e3d7ff) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:04 pm• Mental-health care for veterans-certainly an obligation; but what about the Americans who are not veterans?
One is indeed an obligation. THe otehr is merely an aspiration, although Haley has focused on that in other fora.
•Term limits-Requires a constitutional amendment; no direct presidential role.
A president has the bully pulpit.
• Vocational classes in high schools-local and state government responsibility; no federal role.
Once upon a time this was true. Today, federal education money can affect many things.
• Elimination of the federal gas tax-Requires congressional action; how would the interstate highway system be funded?
It’s been built. It can be funded from the general purse and “roads” are actually an enumerated power of Congress.
• Elimination of earmark spending-Congressional prerogative; would require Congress to act. No presidential role.
Veto anything that has earmarks.
• Cognitive testing for presidential candidates-If designed to ban candidates from running, requires constitutional amendment; if not, then would require congressional action.
Again, the bully pulpit, but also it becomes expected once it is done voluntarily by some. Who wants to continually answer why they didn’t submit to one, like Romney did over his tax returns.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:16 pm@97, Now do Trump’s agenda! and then Biden’s…
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:20 pmMr M wrote:
Except, of course, the Republican Party are the voters; it’s not like the RNC can kick them out.
This is the part that so many don’t get: the Republican voters have moved on from the go-along-to-get-along Republicans of the Hugh Scott-Everett Dirksen wing of the 1960s and 1970s, and even the nice guys of the Bush Administration. They want someone who will fight, bare-knuckled, for conservative ideas, and that’s what Donald Trump gave them. When our 45th President goes to his eternal reward, other fighters will step up and use similar tactics, because that is what the voters want.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:39 pmDana (bacf72) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:39 pm
I completely agree with you, Dana.
felipe (4480c4) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:49 pmMr M wrote:
Good heavens! Russia has the landing craft to invade the United States? Who knew?
Germany could not invade the United Kingdom, which was separated from the continent by a narrow channel. For the Allies to invade occupied France in 1944 required 7,000 ships and landing craft to cross the Channel.
Vladimir Putin is 71 years old, and there are at least rumors that he’s not in the greatest health. If Ukraine surrendered today, giving Russia the win, it would still take a decade for Russie to rebuild what they’ve expended in Ukraine. Just how much support do you believe there will be for an invasion of even the Baltic States at that point, considering how poorly the invasion of Ukraine has gone?
The comparison of Mr Putin with Adolf Hitler is a poor one. In 1939, and again in 1941, Germany was wildly successful in its military operations, and the Führer was in his fifties, with, it was generally assumed, many more years to live and rule. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has ground down to a stalemate after two years of fighting, and President Putin is an elderly man. The situations are just not the same.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:52 pmSome good news orbis health nearing stage 3 trials on cancer vaccine with minimal side effects. (DU)
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:06 pm@81 except mother and two children drowned not one. (cnn) Usa today. Defending evil is not a good way to go.
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:14 pm#52 as written by Rip
Source: NBC News
In a press conference on Friday, López Obrador called on the U.S. to approve a plan that would deploy $20 billion to Latin American and Caribbean countries, suspend the U.S. blockade of Cuba, remove all sanctions against Venezuela and grant at least 10 million Hispanics living in the U.S. the right to remain and work legally.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-asks-mexico-help-stop-record-surge-migrants-rcna132711
steveg (6aa57e) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:18 pm@88 Nicky haley was taught the civil war was about states rights. (states rights to do what?) 60 years ago I was taught John Brown was bad in christian schools. (it didn’t take very well even though we had to pray in school every day) It did let me know stuff about the bible ;but not about priests molesting young boys.
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:22 pm@105 great idea hope biden does it!
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:24 pm@104 Nice, but I’m defending the facts. Lying in order to smear Texas military personnel who did no wrong is evil, asset, and that’s what the administration is doing and that’s what you’re defending.
lloyd (a799a6) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:26 pm@105. As with student loans, Biden is more than happy to spend taxpayer cash to help him get re-elected, after which it would be back to open borders, convoys and chaos.
lloyd (a799a6) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:33 pmLate to the party again, I see NJ Rob handled the question. Thanks NJ Rob.
steveg (6aa57e) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:34 pm@100 populist ideas not conservative remember trump said he wouldn’t touch social security or medicare and told paul ryan nope. Libertarian economics like milton freidman and reagan espoused like free trade are anathema to populist. Why trump carried midwest in 2016 where romney couldn’t in 2012.
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:35 pm@102 the reason putin is still in power is the recently deceased leader of the wagner group lost his nerve while advancing on moscow a mere 50 miles away with population he passed treating them like heroes getting rid of putin and putin knows this.
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:42 pm@108 defending facts? Two children and mother drown not one child. (cnn) ap others.
asset (eb25cc) — 1/20/2024 @ 1:45 pmThey want someone who will fight, bare-knuckled, for conservative ideas, and that’s what Donald Trump gave them.
That he shot everyone around him in that fight, EXCEPT for the bad guys, is immaterial. HE FIGHTS!!!1! So what you have is a fighter so incompetent he hits the referee, both coaches, the ropes, the girl with the round card, and a few people in the stands, all the while his opponent is laughing his ass off.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:26 pmOne of the claims made in all the back and forth over Ukraine has been that the Biden Administration is using Ukrainian lives cynically in this war against Russia. I have come to agree. I think the decision was made that enabling Ukraine to defeat the Russian military machine would draw the US too deep into the war. So “Biden” measured out weapons in a way that did not let the Ukrainians continue the momentum of their counter-offensive.
I understand not wanting to turn this into a much larger fight but we’ve seen that Russian reached out to Iran, North Korea and China anyway. North Korea is being used by Russia as a conventional munitions factory. Iran is being used as a suicide drone factory. Iran is also being used by Russia in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Russia benefits substantially from the activities of Iranian proxies against Israel though of course it could all be one giant coincidence.
My guess? US sells out Ukraine before the 2024 election by insisting behind closed doors that Ukraine concede territory currently held by Russians, to the point where Ukraine is pushed to withdraw from the left bank of the Dnipro River at Krynky.
The Israeli’s will be told we think they are more than done in Gaza, so stop now. We will then borrow $Billions from the Chinese and other treasury bond purchasers to send into Gaza, Ukraine to rebuild. This play has its strengths, but its main weakness is it simply kicks the can down the road. It signals Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, and even Australia that their negotiating positions with China are going to be weak, so proceed accordingly.
By the end of 2024, the world may well be both a more peaceful and more dangerous place.
I know there is a time and a place where less peaceful equals less dangerous, but I can’t answer whether now is that time and place.
steveg (6aa57e) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:26 pmPutin knows he’s getting the political upper hand with his allies like Marge and Speaker Johnson and Trump. It’s why he needs an embarrassing loss in Ukraine or, at worst for us, stuck in an unwinnable resource-sapping quagmire.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:29 pmThis is the part that so many don’t get: the Republican voters have moved on
Dana (I assume from Kentucky), bite me. I was there for all of that and was one of those that walked precincts for Reagan. But I will vote for Jill Stein before I vote for Donald, the traitor, Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:29 pmGood heavens! Russia has the landing craft to invade the United States? Who knew?
Maybe we only have to give up Alaska. You’ll still be safe.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:30 pmTrump gets credit for appointing conservative justices, but he fights for whatever issue blows his skirt up, not for any particularly conservative principles.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:33 pmFair points. IMO, Biden has been too cowardly wrt Putin, blanching at his multiple threats. We know this because he’s been too slow and too little at providing Ukrainians the weapons they need that would reverse the Russian occupation.
Similarly, Iran is widening their sphere of belligerence, what with attacks on Americans, attacks in Iraq, Hezbollah attacks, Houthi attacks. Biden simply doesn’t understand the concept of peace through strength, and what he needs to do right now is launch a multi-pronged strike on Houthis, Republican Guards, and some choice Iranian targets. The pin-prick strikes to-date don’t cut it, because Putin and Xi are watching.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:49 pmNikki is questioning Trump’s mental fitness, for confusing her with Pelosi. Long overdue. She’s definitely out of the running for Trump’s VP.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 2:58 pmAs the days dwindle to a precious few for the Trump-Kushner crime family, we will see Trump getting even more desperate and unhinged.
nk (50c5a0) — 1/20/2024 @ 3:35 pmAspirational.
Rip Murdock (e3d7ff) — 1/20/2024 @ 3:44 pmAll over but the shouting:
Rip Murdock (e3d7ff) — 1/20/2024 @ 4:15 pmActually we already have term limits, they’re called elections.
Rip Murdock (e87216) — 1/20/2024 @ 4:18 pm“Putin signed an order insinuating the sale of Alaska to the United States in 1867 was illegitimate.”
Biden should invite him to the Hague to discuss. Putin might want to bring his lawyer…and a change of underwear.
AJ_Liberty (01e366) — 1/20/2024 @ 4:57 pmThe GOP has done an about-face on limited government, trade, supporting democracy abroad, and, to a degree, being the beacon of opportunity. Much of the culture war is performative and strains the federalism foundation that used to anchor the party.
I unloaded on Tim Scott on The Dispatch this morning so I won’t repeat it here. But suffice to say that our current crop of politicians are weasly cowards that behind closed doors know better. The party has a lot of cowardice.
I fear the GOP will have to see a lot of losing and lost policy opportunities to find its way home. Conservatism has a rich intellectual tradition. It has an anchor. Populism and personality worship not so much. Looks like it may be time to start a conservative wing of the Democrat(ic) Party or challenge the current GOP with a more effective 3rd party.
AJ_Liberty (01e366) — 1/20/2024 @ 5:06 pmAspirational?
If you are referring to the Mexican asks, I think that with the Biden Administration, everything is worth a try. Houthi’s didn’t even ask and they got removed from the Foreign Terrorist Organization and Specially Designated Global Terrorist lists. Iran got their money back the same way. I realize the explanation given in both cases was humanitarian reasons, but I think that was aspirational. I don’t think there is any way Biden can absolutely verify that funds are not being outright stolen by the Houthi’s and/or not simply being traded. The Houthi’s are certainly not funding themselves via Yemens GDP (GDP per capita is around $700). The Iranians have been circumventing Western financial machinations since the silk route ran through Persia
steveg (6aa57e) — 1/20/2024 @ 5:16 pmAj,
The problem is that everyone knows that Trump is vindictive. Haley is not. So, even if the odds were even, the cowards would back Trump because there is no cost to dissing Haley. It’s not like Tim Scott has any base outside of MAGA any more. And since he actually ran against Trump, he might find himself primaried anyway.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:07 pmMr M wrote:
Well, if you include Big Diomede, Russia’s, and Little Diomede, ours, we’re only 2.4 miles apart, but the distance between the Russian and Alaskan mainlands is 55 miles, thrice the distance across the English Channel, and it did take those 7,000 ships and landing craft to get our troops across that!
Dana (bacf72) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:08 pmchallenge the current GOP with a more effective 3rd party.
Don’t say “third party”, as the GOP is now a fringe party. Say “challenge the Democrats with a more effective center-right party.”
It may be that the GOP will find its way home anyway. Hate, anger, self-pity and the rest of the Dark Side are not sustainable.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:10 pmDana (bacf72) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:08 pm
I don’t know how to break it to you, but aircraft have improved over the last 80 years.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:12 pmThe point being though, Dana, you will accept nearly anything that does not directly threaten you, and until that point occurs you will be for appeasement.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:20 pmNikki Haley questions trump mental state after he calls her nancy pelosi. nbc news. Paul gosar Racist- az says it was misunderstanding that statement that army needs more “white” soldiers. mistakes were made! CBS news.
asset (f9b555) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:35 pm@131 Populism is sustainable and has been here for a very long time. Its the ayn randist uncle miltey reaganomics that has the short shelf life before they come with the pitchforks.
asset (f9b555) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:40 pm“In peace and plenty the steers get fat.” — Max Brand
Given that if they don’t get beefed they’ll be hided, they might as well make the most of it.
nk (005546) — 1/20/2024 @ 6:50 pmMore on the Putin Republicans here. The final paragraph…
The thing is, we’re talking about a single-digit percentage of our military budget to help Ukraine defend itself from a criminal, war crimes infested invasion from a bad Russian actor. The moral math here is 1st grade, and it all comes down to Trump, who would rather praise Putin for his brazenness than condemn him.
This party is not conservative, it’s right-wing, fascist friendly and xenophobic. Reagan would not recognize it.
Also, the Dems are not without blame here. They voted to remove McCarthy, without a single dissenting.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 7:04 pmFor those keeping score, Trump is 3-1-1 in endorsements by former Republican presidential candidates; while Haley is 1-3-1 as Asa Hutchinson has endorsed her; and DeSantis is 0-4-1. Chris Christie hasn’t endorsed any of the remaining candidates.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:53 pmHere’s more material for Nikki to question Trump’s mental fitness.
Probably? Did any post-Truman administration think about indicting Truman for ending WW2 in the manner he did? Did Truman concern himself with indictments or immunity while commander-in-chief? It would be news to me, and it’s just another reason why Trump’s total immunity stance is so absurd and anti-Constitutional.
But, but, Trump took the cognitive test! Or maybe not.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:55 pmIt’s not the job of Democrats to take sides during a Republican power struggle. It’s up to the Republican House leadership to solve their own problems.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/20/2024 @ 8:58 pmThe Democrats will demand too high price to bail out Speaker Johnson between now and November 2024.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/20/2024 @ 9:01 pmRip, they took a side when they voted against McCarthy, and it was like 208-0. To actually not take a side would mean they all voted “present”, thus keeping McCarthy as Speaker and relegating Gaetz and his fellow clowns to the back bench. Hakim Jeffries made an grossly stupid decision to take a side.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 9:15 pmThe Democrats had their own issues with McCarthy, and since he didn’t want to deal with the Democrats, they had no reason to support him.
It isn’t the role of the minority party to bail out the majority.
The majority was elected to lead; they should lead. The fact the House Republicans can’t get their act together isn’t the Democrats problem. Otherwise the Republican speaker would just be a puppet with Jefferies as the puppet master.
Do you think the Republicans would have bailed out Nancy Pelosi?
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:32 pmAm I on an anti-Trump binge today? Yes, yes I am. Without apology. And why not.
Even if he loses New Hampshire (unlikely), he’ll win every state after that and be my party’s nominee, despite the fact that he’s a deranged amoral liar who has an established record of putting himself above his country.
Folks, this is not normal.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:34 pmRIP singer Marlena Shaw (81), best known for California Soul.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:38 pmThis party is not conservative, it’s right-wing, fascist friendly and xenophobic. Reagan would not recognize it.
Why do you call it right-wing? Trump jacked up taxes on the upper classes, imposed protectionist tariffs and generally fed the beast. The rest, of course, is obvious. You forgot racist.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:38 pmRip, you just said the Dems should’ve stayed out of it, which has to mean they should’ve voted “present”. Instead, they unanimously chose otherwise. The Dems’ problem is the same as the GOP’s problem, the inability to look ahead, even by a few weeks or months, to see the likely outcomes of their decisions.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:40 pmIt’s not the job of Democrats to take sides during a Republican power struggle.
I expect them to act in their own interests, and one of those is keeping the House in session. I think that these short continuing resolutions are Johnson’s insurance policy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:41 pmWould a credible, well-funded centerish independent necessarily lose? James Carville thinks they could win. Although I think that No Labels actually intends to only run in red states.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:44 pmTrump raised taxes on the upper classes? Um, no, the opposite.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/20/2024 @ 10:51 pmProtectionist tariffs used to be the province of Democrats and labor unions and Pat Buchanan, so not conservative, and Pat Buchanan is right-wing. If anything, Trump is a reincarnation of Buchanan’s retro right-wing paleo mentality, but that gives Trump too much credit, that he ascribes to an ideology.
I have no idea what “fed the beast” even means.
————-
The Democrats had their own interests, and one of those was not seeing McCarthy remain as speaker. It’s all water under the bridge anyway.
If the House Republicans lose three more members, either through mid-session retirements, deaths, or expulsions, the Democrats may be the majority party in the House before November.
The only reason that Speaker Johnson proposes short term CRs is that he doesn’t have the Republican votes to pass anything longer term, or regular appropriation bills without poison pills that wouldn’t pass the Senate. He’s a hostage to the Freedom Caucus. To pass anything resembling regular order he would need Democratic votes, but he would be out on his ear (like McCarthy) if he used that strategy.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/20/2024 @ 11:59 pm@137 the correct label is populist.
asset (f9b555) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:28 amWho should no labels ask to run? Moderate celebrity if you can find one?
asset (f9b555) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:31 amDoes Trump still believe in Santa Claus? In the collective person of Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Comey, Thomas, and Alito?
You know, and I know, and as many as one out of one hundred of Trump voters know, that Truman was not indicted for dropping the bomb, and that no former President has heretofore been indicted for crimes committed while in office prior to Trump.
Does he really think that “loyalty” will win for him if he gives the Supreme Court just something to hang their hat on?
Or does he just know his rubes really, really, really, well?
nk (661347) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:37 am“Would a credible, well-funded centerish independent necessarily lose?”
If history teaches us anything, then the answer is “yes they will lose”. I get that circumstances are new and that both likely nominees have historically high negatives. Democrats are stuck supporting their rapidly-declining incumbent and Republicans are in denial that there’s something congnitively and morally wrong with their incumbent. The loyalty to Trump is both perplexing and undeniable.
As you go state by state, which states are vulnerable to a 3rd party candidate? Maybe a state like NH, but even there, you’re going up against two parties with well-established get-out-the-vote operations and a natural tendency for people to come home to one of the main parties.
Let’s say a moderate ticket can actually win a few states (unlike Ross Perot) and it takes enough from both sides so that no one gets to 270. Well, it goes to the House. What are the odds that the House picks one of the two major candidates? Pretty much nil absent Biden stroking out and Trump confessing that he did in fact orchestrate an insurrection.
My potential interest in a third party is looking forward. I fear this cycle remains the hopeless and deflating choice of Biden or Trump. The GOP is in the Whig zone. It’s ripe to scatter as Trumpism is really not about policy but some freak combination of personality fetish and tribal zombie-ism.
The cult doesn’t break until irresponsible choices finally have jarring consequences. I’m not sure the GOP can survive that epiphany. It may be forever stained as should’ve known better. We will need a re-boot. Might as well start now.
AJ_Liberty (01e366) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:52 amThank you for the Powerline lknk, NJRob.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:20 amDoh! In 155, “picks” should be “does not pick”
AJ_Liberty (01e366) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:26 amIt’s a beautiful Sunday morning in Chicago, and I am 2-4-2. Two trips to the bathroom, four cigarettes, two cups of coffee.
Last night, I watched the movie “Charade” with Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn on YouTube, maybe for the first time in its entirety and in color. (But this is not about Audrey Hepburn’s skinny legs.)
In addition to Grant and Hepburn, it had Walter Matthau, James Coburn, and George Kennedy in supporting roles which can best be described as pitiful. Pitiful dialogue, pitiful direction, barely passable acting.
Now we know the quality of those three actors. But the idea was that it was a showcase for Grant and Hepburn. The other three were not in any way to be allowed to steal a scene let alone the show.
The same thing happened with the charade Ronna McDaniel put on for us as the Republican primary. Trump was going to be the star, and none of the supporting actors were going to steal the show.
nk (661347) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:28 amThe GOP needs to lose, repeatedly, because it won’t give up on Trump and authoritarianism. It is redefining America as a dictatorship led by Trump instead of a Republic governed by a Constitution.
It has also redefined Christianity and the Golden Rule of Matthew 7:12. Instead of “In everything, do to others what you would have them do to you …”, Trump preaches to do to others what they have done to you (only meaner and harder).
That is the Old Testament an eye for an eye, not the New Testament teaching of love, dignity, and charity.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:36 amCulture matters. Trump has destroyed the GOP’s culture with promises of unlimited power. It is not surprising that thus has corrupted the GOP and everything it touches.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:49 amnk (661347) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:28 am
Well said, nk.
When you are right, you are right, DRJ.
felipe (5e2a04) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:00 amEnglish politics (Lord Acton) is the source of the idea that powers corrupts. American politicians typically said power must be coupled with responsibility. They did this by focusing on who the power was used to benefit.
Democrats focus on benefiting society and communities, while Republicans focus on benefiting individuals and families. It was a short step for Trump to convince gullible Republicans that what benefits himself and his family is a good goal.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:02 amBlessings to you on the Sabbath, felipe.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:04 amLooing towards the future:
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:11 amCorrection:
The title in post 164 should be:
Looking towards the future:
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:13 amFirst, I loathe Trump. He’s led the GOP to three straight disappointing election cycles. The GOP voters are stupid for backing him. DeSantis would be (or would have been) a good choice. Haley’s support, what there is of it, is bought by the donors.
It’s ironic that Biden has the same basic characteristics as Trump. No public figure resembles Donald Trump more than Joe Biden.
I’ve written here of Trump: He talks too much, thinks out loud, makes unforced errors, and says stupid things into an open microphone. Biden is much the same.
DN (589536) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:16 amKevin, at 149: the most likely outcome of a third party candidacy is that the house decides, with each state delegation sharing a single vote.
If it goes to the house, trump wins.
aphrael (4c4719) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:24 amPaul, he raised taxes on the upper middle class in blue states by ending the deductability of state taxes above a certain threshold.
It wasn’t about them being upper middle class, though, it was about them being evil libtards who deserved it.
aphrael (4c4719) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:25 amTrump raised taxes on the upper classes? Um, no, the opposite.
For those in states with income taxes, he did.
For example, in CA, a 13% top rate translated to a 5% deduction on federal taxes. With that deduction gone, even a cut from 39.6 to 27% amounted to a 2-3% marginal tax hike.
Upper-middle-class folks fared just as poorly, since the marginal rates only dropped by a percent, while they also lost a 3% state tax deduction.
You really have to look at more than the top federal rate when they cut out a huge deduction like SALT. Ask our host how he did. It cost me $10K in 2018 (over the previous regime) as I had large cap gains that CA taxed as regular income.
Sure, if you were a billionaire in TX, with modest property tax, you probably came out ahead (property taxes in TX are high). But in NY? There’s a reason that Trump moved to Florida.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:26 am* With that deduction gone, even a cut from 39.6 to 37%
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:27 amThe distinguished Mr M wrote:
So, how well have we actually done on those things which do “not directly threaten” us? 58,220 Americans died in Vietnam, and the Communists still won. 4,431 Americans were killed in Iraq, with another 31,994, and if Saddam Hussein is gone, Iraq is still a terrible place, and certainly not the Western-style democracy that the younger President Bush envisioned. 2,402 Americans died in Afghanistan, and another 20,713 were wounded, and though we did destroy al Qaeda, we stayed there for several more needless years, and the Taliban government we unseated in 2001 is right back in power.
Perhaps, just perhaps, we just don’t do all that well in those wars which “(do) not directly threaten” us.
Military recruitment is way down, and while some conservatives chalk that up to the dummkopf from Delaware’s “woke” policies, what I see is a nation dipping its toe into a war in Ukraine, and threats that China might invade Taiwan, and prospective recruits seriously questioning our policies and just what they might be led into.
Winston Churchill famously said, “Give us the tools, and we will do the job,” but despite the United States giving the UK the tools, Great Britain could not do the job: they were outmanned and out industrialized by Germany, just as Ukraine is outmanned and out industrialized by Russia. More, the war is being fought on Ukrainian soil, which means that their manpower and industry are being reduced without being able to do the same to their enemy. The Ukrainians have done remarkably well, but after two years, we’re seeing a war of attrition with little ground being gained by either side, and Ukraine cannot win a war of attrition with a neighbor with thrice its population.
Dana (bacf72) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:27 amIf you think that’s what’s wrong with Trump, you’ve lost the plot.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:27 amIt wasn’t about them being upper middle class, though, it was about them being evil libtards who deserved it.
Actually it was. The tax cuts favored the working class, with the near-doubling of the standard deduction. If you didn’t itemize before the cuts, you really saved a lot.
Maybe you missed Trump’s disdain of the college-educated coastal crowd, but his supporters in the midwest did not. Trump’s whole shtick was that the college-educated treated the working man like trash, shipped “their” jobs to China and generally rigged the system against them.
Go look at the tax rates before and after and you’ll see that long before you get to $100K/year/couple taxes start going up in most states.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:33 amIf it goes to the house, trump wins.
1) It’s the new house not the current one.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:36 am2) It depends on who the centrist candidate is.
3) It also depends on the vote totals. If Trump comes in third, it would be unacceptable to choose him.
DRJ
that you refuse to respond to how the Democrat party has become a fully radical, leftist party means you aren’t looking at the whole picture and believe in “Cutting off your nose to spite your face.”
NJRob (ad07d2) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:36 amIf you think that’s what’s wrong with Trump, you’ve lost the plot.
Really. Biden’s gaffes are forgetting what town he’s in. Trump’s gaffes are forgetting he can’t throw people into concentration camps.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:38 amProtectionist tariffs used to be the province of Democrats and labor unions and Pat Buchanan, so not conservative, and Pat Buchanan is right-wing.
Do you get dizzy with circles like that. Pat Buchanan got endorsed by the Marxist Lenora Fulani when both were in the Reform Party. Pat is so off-scale that he can be confused with a Stalinist.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:41 amTo me, The Right is the general political grouping that favors capitalism, free markets, property rights, and individual freedom, at least as far as economics.
They may also favor historical social tradition and structures, national security and statist activity in support of those.
The difference between the two is the difference between Libertarians and Conservatives.
The Left favors statist control of the economy, limitations on property rights, socialism and mixed markets.
They may also favor individual freedom on social matters. They may favor or oppose traditional social structures and.or national security issues.
The difference between the two is the difference between Liberals and State Socialists.
Trump seems to fall into a middle space. He’s neither Left nor Right. I think that “L’etat, c’est moi” sums him up pretty well.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:52 amNo he didn’t. He ended the freeloaders spending extravagantly in states and expecting other states to subsidize it. That includes the state of NJ.
NJRob (ad07d2) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:57 amThe newspaper that hyped misinformation on Covid origins and the Hunter laptop want you to know that doing your own research is a good way to end up being wrong. Trust them.
lloyd (7ec930) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:57 am@176 I wish it was just about who has the worst gaffes. Unfortunately for Biden and the Trump haters, for most people it’s about who has the worst policies.
lloyd (7ec930) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:01 amTrump has already made clear that he’s in the bag for Putin and will betray Ukraine, and now he’s wavering on American support for Taiwan, falsely claiming that they “stole” US chip business. Meantime, Intel is constructing a massive chip facility on 1,000 acres in Ohio. Also, this.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:08 amAJ,
I find “No Labels” sub-optimum. That they don’t propose a candidate now makes their efforts for ballot access harder than they need to be, as it’s an unemotional exercise by political wonks rather than a grassroots effort (like Perot).
Again, the Perot campaign of 1992 should be instructive. Sure he lost, because the man self-destructed. But his self-destruction is not germane to the overall question: could a centrist win? In June of 1992, Perot led the polls. Shortly thereafter he quit the race for crazy (and probably false) reasons, then re-enters later but the damage was done.
A saner candidate could easily have won. And in today’s contest he would probably be the sanest one already.
I have been saying a new center-right party is needed for a few years now (ever since the GOP started kneeling before Zod), so I agree it is needed. I would like to see one featuring a strong federalism plank, but even a Romney/Bush/Reagan formulation would be fine.
It’s actually not all that hard to set up a new party in most states — independent candidacies are generally harder. Getting ballot access can be tricky, but fortunately there is a wealth of federal precedent striking down state restrictions and roadblocks.
And it is needed. The two parties have been dragged to extreme positions by their shock troops, embracing the holier-than-thou dynamic that is typical of fringe parties. The center is empty and most people are centrists.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:08 amThe President doesn’t set tax rates-Congress sets them.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:10 amKevin, Buchanan can’t control who endorses him. If you can’t see his right-wing ideology after all these years, then I can’t help you.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:10 am@182:
Vivek, Trump’s mini-me, actually said in debate that he’d drop support of Taiwan the moment US fabs could serve US interests. The quiet part out loud.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:11 amKevin, Buchanan can’t control who endorses him. If you can’t see his right-wing ideology after all these years, then I can’t help you.
His ideology is fascist, not right-wing. Fascism works with any leaning, being primarily about rigid social and economic structure and hierarchies, lead by a caudillo. In her dreams, AOC would be as fascist.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:13 amHe ended the freeloaders spending extravagantly in states and expecting other states to subsidize it
Many states have much higher property taxes than California. Not just NJ, either. Texas property taxes are 3 times higher than CA. So is most of the Midwest.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:16 amKevin, Buchanan can’t control who endorses him.
They were in the same party, competing for the same nomination.
See here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-11/12/102r-111299-idx.html
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:17 amI guess that proves Trump can do anything, even make conservatives see value in the Democrats.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:29 amFascism is right-wing, Kevin.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:45 am“Nimbra” is about to lose to a racist bully on Tuesday. America loses as well, by double digits, just like it will probably be in New Hampshire.
She came from South Carolina, asshole.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:57 amNew Hampshire Republican Primary Polls Roundup:
Suffolk University/NBC10 Boston/Boston Globe Daily Tracking Poll 1/21/24:
Saint Anselm College Survey Center 1/17/24:
The poll also reported that Haley and Trump also split unaffiliated voters, who can vote in the primary, 52-37. Here is a typology of NH unaffiliated voters.
CNN Poll 1/21/24:
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 11:15 amDeSantis will reportedly quit his campaign and endorse the orange-hued racist bully. It’s a two-person race, for around two days.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:05 pmRon DeSantis is planning to drop his presidential bid Sunday
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:11 pmFor those keeping score, Trump is 4-1-1 in endorsements by former Republican presidential candidates; while Haley is 1-4-1. Chris Christie hasn’t endorsed any of the remaining candidates.
By campaigning in Trump’s lane, DeSantis became road kill.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:16 pmHaley gets her two-person race, unfortunately for she’s number two.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:18 pmThere’s a huge difference between Russia now, and the Allies in 1944. The advantage of isolation (geographic), manufacturing, 100% move to war footing, and half a decade of buildup that made the US (and to lesser extent, Canada, ANZAC), made the Allies win inevitable.
Russia has none of those advantages, but they also have the disadvantage of being in a decades long technical deficit. The US Marines budget is higher than all of the Russian’s defense spending.
The tactical technology advantage of US intelligence is order’s of magnitude better than Russia’s, which means that we will know about a Russian landing about 3 minutes after they start discussing it, much less when a build up would actually happen.
So the US has a purely numerical advantage (against the next 9 largest militaries in the world, Russia is 5th at 1/10), and a qualitative advantage, an experiencial advantage, etc, etc.
There is no force on Earth that can invade the US homeland, much less be successful.
I know all of this is in response to a humorous hypothetical, but I think it’s important to know what can’t happen, so we can plan for what can. Global chaos; driven by terrorism, state actors using cyber security, providing economic and military assets to wacko’s that don’t want to “invade” America, but would be happy to support terrorists to divert American power projections. Hello Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, and to some extent China (though they need powerful US to buy their goods or die too).
Knowing why, helps us to know who, and how we defend and respond; which also means we look beyond 1st order ramifications of tit-for-tat. Ex. So the Iranians are supporting extremist around the gulf, why is that, and what to we do, isolate, attack, ignore, engage? If you look at the global risk profile, you have to have a philosophy that you believe in, a strategy to put forward, and then continually feed reality back to philosophy, so you have a continously evolving loop.
Generally that has been what conservatism meant. Which is vastly different than the Republican party espouses today. They don’t engage on reality, they don’t even know what it means, it’s like a twitter troll has taken over. Well, that’s actually what happened.
The democrats kind of do that, but they are focused on forcing reality to reflect the philosophy. Which is a different problem.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:28 pmI think this is the whole problem; what does reality mean, how to you build a rational administration-governance-politicol-philosophical mindset that helps shape the response to the intersection of chaos and reality. If you don’t know what reality is, then choaos is your philophy by default.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:34 pmI think a less personal way of putting this would be to say” (please forgive the formatting)
[the Democrat party has become a fully radical, leftist party] so the rise of Trump did not come out of nowhere.
When the very leftist Obama Administration held the House led by a very leftist Nancy Pelosi, we saw a direct attack on middle and lower economic class conservatives. They were brought to heel by government lawfare; forcing them to create and sell items that violated religious beliefs, forcing them to pay to fund procedures that violated their religious beliefs. We’ve always funded things that violate some of our religious beliefs- the military for example, but for some reason the Pelosi- Schumer-Obama method was to rub peoples faces in it. Sisters of the Poor object? Pressure them until they have to shut down. Bakery objects, bankrupt them. This is an old strategy, one that works but is ruthless. Find a target and make an example of it and everyone else will fall into line. They began to destroy individuals who dared question the Obama agenda in public in heavy handed ways. (Joe the Plumber is an imperfect example, but that they went after him at all… or failed to say “stand down” to those who did go after hie says a lot about how personal destruction even the smallest of adversaries was now in play)
Obama-Pelosi-Schumer also loved to come out with press conferences, with Pelosi and Schumer being openly smug and gleeful about the destruction of the weak opponents. That is not how its done, in football we do not like to see a Nick Saban showing up post game press conferences being smug and gleeful about the annual walloping of Vanderbilt… they were the opponent, not the enemy. The Obama- Pelosi-Schumer attitude moved the needle further away from our ideas vs. their ideas, toward us vs. them, our side is good, their side is evil. Republicans have come to be framed as greedy white colonialist racist fundamentalist exploitationist warty subhuman luddites who want black people put back in chains, want to ship all brown people back to their country of origin and/or have them killed in the streets by uniformed thugs- in a word, rethugglicans.
The candidates other than Trump who fell out in 2016, lost in large part because they ran on status quo when Trump stood up and said he would say no to all this, he’d roll it back and refuse to back down. Some of the GOP candidates tried to co-opt this message but Trump had that unapologetic, snarling, pugnacious swagger of a personality and people believed he’d fight, so others were dismissed because they were seen (and well framed by Trump) as inside the beltway “reach across the aisle” creatures who would fold under the first NYT or WP criticism.
The heavy handed actions and policies of the Obama-Schumer-Pelosi in larg(est) part created the environment that spawned Trump. About 45% of the US still remembers 2008-2016 and has added 2020-2024 to the equation and seems to be saying only Trump is strong willed enough to counter it.
Haley and DeSantis have very little time to destroy the “Trump is the only one” delusion AND to show that they will also counter and/or destroy the worst outrages of 2008-2016, Biden while doing it with class, personal integrity, honesty. Right now, people don’t believe DeSantis or Haley (or any of the dropouts) could or can do any of it.
Haley and DeSantis have not convinced people that Trump was a trainwreck in 2016, he’s a trainwreck now, and we don’t need a trainwreck to roll back the most egregious items of the Obama-Schumer-Pelosi-Biden agenda.
Haley and DeSantis should be saying they are the precision guided, you don’t throw out the champagne that is America with the cork alternative- who has the spine, the grit, the personality to move the needle and they have about 90 days to do it.
I bet Haley and DeSantis don’t. I want one of them to succeed, but neither has succeeded in saying “hey we all know Trump has a strong personality, but we can all agree he can be huge trainwreck which is destructive to our attempts to move America forward and away from the harmful far left Democrat agenda. I can do everything he can do and more because I am not a trainwreck. Elect me for President, give me the Senate and the House and we’ll get it done without all the mess that flies around everywhere and everything Trump touches.
steveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:39 pm@Rip@197 I don’t think any of them thought they could beat Trump straight up. They were running to be the person who would be next if/when the shoes started to drop. Desantis has apparently decided that he won’t be that person (or has run out of money).
Nic (896fdf) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:39 pmIf you’re not running to win, you shouldn’t be running at all.
Rip Murdock (116696) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:46 pmObviously that strategy ended at Iowa caucuses.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:51 pmIn rational world, Nikki would be positioned for being the “next (wo)man up”, but in current MAGA GOP reality, nothing has value, so the follow on to Trump in this election or the next, will be a MAGA GOP person.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 12:59 pmFascism is right-wing, Kevin.
No, that’s the Left’s lie.
Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, and Donald Trump are all fascists.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:01 pmAny authoritarian system which places labor and business under government control and creates or enforces a hierarchy of privilege in society (whether based on money, race, education or victim status) is fascist.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:04 pmIn rational world, Nikki would be positioned for being the “next (wo)man up”, but in current MAGA GOP reality, nothing has value, so the follow on to Trump in this election or the next, will be a MAGA GOP person.
You assume that there will be a GOP in 2028. Nominating a felon who gets 25% of the vote will be a game-changer.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:06 pmRon DeSantis is planning to drop his presidential bid Sunday
He has, and endorsed Trump and MAGA.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:07 pmI fear for Rip after Haley folds. Whatever will he do?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:08 pmThat’s confusing authoritarianism with fascism. Authoritarianism is the mechanism that all of those people used, but fascism is a tool of the right wing.
The “right” wing of all of those host movements is different, so the American right in 2024 is different than 1984, 1884, much less in Soviet Russia or Csarist Russia or Moaist China.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:09 pmOn the Trump front (because I think odds say we are stuck with him), an off brand radio host (probably Chad Benson), I heard while scanning for a station was opining that if Trump would hire Vivek to be his young voter outreach, Vivek could tik tok and live meet his way into substantial youth votes. Plausible.
I could see Trump picking Tim Scott for his VP slot, although I hope Trey Gowdy can convince his good friend Tim Scott not to do it. Someone here argued Scott is not smart, but if Scott were to take the role on, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt on how smart that choice is and chalk it up to his feeling that he could bring some semblance of honor and dignity to the ticket- despite knowing that Mike Pence was steamrolled when he tried it. Scott will pick up some minority voters- and most importantly, he won’t lose any. Scott is earnest, dignified, hard to dislike, and with coaching should be able to turn the inevitable slur of “house negro” into votes (everyone who cheers on the slur wasn’t going to vote for a Trump/Scott ticket anyway)
I think it will be a close race even if we are in a war and Biden is a “wartime President” voters might decide to go against the grain
I also put chances of Trump voter rebellion high if Trump loses key states he appeared to be winning at bedtime, that he then loses by razor thin margins during over night influxes of Democrat votes. I pray no one dies.
The Russians, Iranians, Chinese will all be heavily involved, not FOR Trump but 100% against America. They will be for 1960’s early 70’s level chaos, division, bitterness.
steveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:11 pmIf you as a MAGA GOPer if they are right wing and conservative they’d say absolutely; but if you asked Reagan if this was, he’d say you’re crazy.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:13 pmOne of these things is not like the other. One of these things is not the same.
But carry on with the 2 minutes of hate. The socialist left appreciates your donation in kind.
NJRob (ad07d2) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:13 pmThis. We, as a country, need to know who our friends are, and no. 1 should your countrymen, if it’s not, you are the problem.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:17 pmBreaking: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to drop out of the presidential race (and endorse Donald Trump) Before that, he had cancelled all his scheduled appearances on the Sunday morning television interview shows, giving scheduling conflict as the reason. He had also stopped running ads I think.
Nikki Haley declined to participate in a debate with only Ron DeSantis, probably a mistake because it would have given her more exposure, and DeSantis would not take many vote from her.
Last poll ir so showed him at 6%, Donald Trump at 50% and Nikki Haley at 38%
New York Times has a left side of the front page story about batch of emails associated with the crusade against D,E,I – one of them starts or is headed like this:
Re:My talk with DeSantis He thinks 2028 will be a disaster for Republicans so the time to run is now
???
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:19 pmSteveg, solid analysis on all counts. Well done and appreciated.
NJRob (ad07d2) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:21 pm@steveg It will be Elise Stefanik, or, if Trump is afraid she cannot deftly handle press attacks, Arkansas Governor and former White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, but Trump will make no official announcement for at least four months, or maybe longer.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:24 pmI’ll be just fine, secure in the knowledge that my faith in numbers was correct.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:25 pmSteveg: You have said nothing about No Labels. They have time.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:25 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:06 pm
It probably can’t get that low. More like 30% to 35% and only if there is’ a strong third party campaign, Taft did get less than 25% (23.2%) in 1912, bt there was avery popular third party candidate.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:29 pmOn another topic,
I see Chinese-American Navy Sailor was convicted for selling out USA secrets to China for $15,000.
He got 27 months and a $9,500 fine, which means the judge let him keep $5,500 of the money the Chinese paid him.
I don’t really care is the secrets were “not all that big of a deal”. The Chinese wanted them for some reason. He gets to keep some of the money?
I see the Chinese also are said to have convinced another Chinese-American to spy, this one was aboard the USS Essex Amphibious Landing Ship and sold the US out for $5000. Most interesting to me is the prosecution alleges this young man spied in part, because his mother told him that if he did so, he could possibly get a job working for the Chinese government after his naval service. I am guessing that if he is lucky enough to get the same judge he will be fined $3,000 and given credit for any time served. Then released to go fulfill his mothers dream
steveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:31 pm“They don’t engage o[i]n reality, they don’t even know what it means, it’s like a twitter troll has taken over. Well, that’s actually what happened.”
The current GOP does not believe that serious indictments matter. They no longer believe that a President should avoid even the appearance of corruption, they think corruption and the law is just a choice of reality. In their reality, Trump is always just fighting for them, the truth, and American Way. If the election is stolen and the Pillow Guy says this travesty can’t stand, well, what’s a President supposed to do? Proactively reallocating electoral votes is not illegal…it’s just like Al Gore…because false analogies are perfectly fine in the bubble reality of Fox, Talk Radio, and the Trumposphere.
Classified Documents are shuffled around Mar a Lago? Everyone does it…and even if they don’t refuse to return them, reality wants this to be selective prosecution. I mean they invaded an ex-President’s house….what’s a guy to do? Change reality. He chose not to prosecute Hillary and “lock her up” because that’s the new norm. Biden is breaking the norm and should just leave well enough alone. Trump let Biden move into his White House after all. Biden should be thanking Trump and not weaponizing the justice system against him.
The new reality is that we need a President who really understands the criminal mind. Who is better to police the hen house, a chicken or a fox? Exactly. Trump 24…because F U.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:32 pmDid you expect anything less?
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:33 pmBullsh-t.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:34 pmWell I’m pretty glad I never bothered getting invested in Desantis as a great dude.
Haley is a non-starter for me… she’s the Trump administration. She’ll be Penced like all of Trump’s loyal pals. You couldn’t pay me enough to get me to vote for that.
Time to accept it. The republic has lost a two party system that’s been broken for 30 years. The GOP will need to totally implode for something decent to come of it. The very best thing to do is to become moderate/conservative democrats and vote in primaries for the non-crazy candidates. If enough Republicans do this, the only viable party becomes less bad.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:40 pmWell said, Colonel.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:49 pmJoin a party with a problematic philosophy and hope to improve it from within, or embrace a bunch of lunatics. F U TRUMP!!!! POWER, LOUD, POWER
Erg!?! I wonder how many conservatives will just check out and quietly complain and hope someone else fixes it…in 2050 something.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:49 pmHaley isn’t very exciting, but she’s an order of magnitude better then Trump or Biden.
Time123 (35bb29) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:52 pmIt doesn’t matter if, POWER, LOUD, POWER, doesn’t actually win or govern, did you get the likes? COVFEFE, don’t you know the LOUD POWER of COVFEFE. That is WINNING.
F U TRUMP.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:53 pmWell, this is remarkable consolidation….and it doesn’t get much more binary. The choice is to chaos or to not chaos. Rip’s polls suggest that the GOP majority wants another round of riding the chaos pony. They have one last chance to put the bottle down, take their pants off their heads, and vote for country over their own self amusement. Though my mind may be dirty, my hands will be clean of this debauchery. You don’t nominate someone with a quad indictment who molests women, cheats in business, and shamelessly lies. I thought this was common knowledge, kind of like ethics 101 and what we teach our kids. When and why did it get scrambled in service of a Manhattan hustler? This will be the moment that historians will look back to and find all of Burke’s good men who did nothing. Reality notes that Biden is awful but not worse than Trump. Chaos is coming, is your life immunized to chaos? Better hope so….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:53 pmIsn’t one order of magnitude better?
ERG…!!!
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:54 pmBiden is probably not relevant.
Haley is Trump. She is culpable for almost all of it. I refuse to pretend like many of us have with Cruz or whoever. If the GOP isn’t giving me someone I support, I don’t have someone to support. Haley is beneath my vote.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 1:56 pmAnd steveg.
I think Haley should stay in the race because, with all the legal cases in front of Trump (and considering his mental unfitness and recent mental diminishment and general obesity), his campaign could very well implode, and Haley will be there to step in as an insurance policy.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:01 pmPlus, out of all the candidates (including Trump), she stands the best chance of beating Biden, which is kind of what this nomination process is about, until Trump hijacked it and made the GOP a personality cult.
Again, you cite a lie.
Here’s what comes up first on Google (From Wikipedia)
It was closely identified with authoritarian movements that were centered on the moneyed classes, in places like Franco’s Spain, but Hitler didn’t care for Jews, and his rhetoric was populist. There was very little difference between the Stalin and Nazi regimes, other than Hitler was a little less arbitrary. So, if you just look at 20th century implementations, you might think it was right-wing, but that doesn’t explain Mao or Stalin, who were NOT right-wing but exemplified many of the other characteristics.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:05 pmTrump’s 3 years were remarkably peaceful and prosperous. Then the Chinese spread COVID and destroyed his 4th year.
Funny how all forget.
NJRob (ad07d2) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:12 pmfascism is a tool of the right wing.
So, fascism is right wing because it is a tool of the right wing? Circular. The same tools used by the left wing are what?
Reminds me of this: https://i.imgur.com/OooCcf5.jpg
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:12 pmSame thing Desantis supporters were thinking of their guy (who was beating Haley despite having a massive campaign against him)
I imagine if Trump does drop out, Desantis is the candidate.
Haley doesn’t represent anything remotely resembling my values. She doesn’t seem to know what she stands for. She can’t even take a stand against slavery. Like Romney, she is not bad except when she’s actually in a position to make a difference… and will always fail to do so.
Doesn’t really matter. Trump’s the nominee even if he has horrific legal outcomes, horrific scandals, severe health problems. He literally was bashing the winner of a sexual assault lawsuit most of last week. Trump is the guy, and we can have fantasies about something changing that (in which case the Trump fans who think he was robbed in 2020 will just think he was robbed again). There’s no viable GOP.
Much better for Republicans in the remaining 49 states to vote in the democrat party primaries, and not as dirty tricksters, but as bona fide democrats, seeking the most conservative option available (likely with poor choices). Over time this absolutely will improve the democrats into something more like the party was in 1994.
Dustihn (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:18 pmSee it’s always where you put the CR.
If that’s all you judge it by, then Bill Clinton would lead by a wide margin, 9/11 didn’t happen to W, blah blah.
Using your hypothetical (and actively stupid, ie. you know it’s a lie but reality is not important) theory, who invited the Chinese to weaponize and deploy a biological weapon during their presidency and didn’t respond?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:20 pmHaley is Trump. She is culpable for almost all of it. I refuse to pretend like many of us have with Cruz or whoever. If the GOP isn’t giving me someone I support, I don’t have someone to support. Haley is beneath my vote.
Dustin, I have probably never disagreed with you more than I do here.
1) Your vote is not your soul. All it does is add to the mass of other votes to argue for a direction. If you insist that the recipient be pure in your eyes, then you’re just being narcissistic. It’s not about you.
2) Haley represented the US at the UN. In Trump’s first couple of years he did not go far astray in foreign policy and was better than Obama, particularly with respect to ISIS. And then she left after the midterms. That she didn’t call him a jerk on the say out may not satisfy you, but again, it’s not about you.
What specifically, as UN Ambassador, did Haley do that pisses you off so? If this is about her not going full-Liz-Cheney, few did. Actual politicians don’t burn all their bridges when they don’t like something.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:20 pmYou’re lying that I’m lying, Kevin, because that’s not what came up in my search. And your own link is clear that fascist practitioners in the 20th and 21st are right-wing. Here’s an excerpt of the 21st century variety, from your link.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:21 pmfascism is a tool of the right wing.
What do you call the Antifa blackshirts, if not fascist?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:22 pmhttps://nypost.com/2024/01/19/news/are-migrants-allowed-to-board-us-flights-without-id/
I wonder why Americans are flocking to Trump instead of the status quo.
NJRob (ad07d2) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:26 pmIn Germany, a massive demonstration against the Russian fascist, yet our Republican leadership supports the fascist instead of the struggling democracy rightfully defending itself.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:27 pmYes, many examples of fascist are right-wing. I am not denying that. But there are also fascists on the left. It’s like when people say only white people can be racist, it’s JUST NOT TRUE.
Antifa clubs people to the ground from speaking wrong. Colleges place white males at the bottom of their societies, and refuse to protect them from the mobs they entertain.
See also Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism
Blurb:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:28 pmMissouri fascist caucus wants rethugliKKKan party to make it harder for voters to pass initiative on abortion starts fillibuster in state senate. Ron desatan should be forced carry his presidential run to term even if it threatens the life of the rethujliKKKan party.
asset (dd0181) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:28 pmFascism is a philosophy, that IS right wing.
Authoritarianism is a tool that fascists use. There are both left and right wing Authoritarian governments in the last 100 years, in the centuries before, that was typically monarchists.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:28 pmThe basic lie is “far right” as used by the media today to denounce any groups or leader that does not support statism and cradle-to-grave social benefits. Yes, AfD is probably far-right, but the new President of Argentina is not. It’s as debased a term as fascist, and for similar reasons. It’s used as a catchall for “stuff we don’t like.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:35 pm@243 Speaking of fascism banning abortions like nazi germany did. See post above what the real fascist our doing in missouri. Let me know when biden and the DNC wants to ban the republican party or put conservatives in reeducation camps. In atalant BLM and antifa members are being prosecuted under rico for protesting cop city and the olny person killed was a protester shot by the police.
asset (dd0181) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:35 pmFascism, as first defined as an economic theory, was state control of labor and business. That is neither left or right, depending only on the direction of said control.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:36 pmFascism’s origins are complex and include many seemingly contradictory viewpoints, ultimately centered on a mythos of national rebirth from decadence. Fascism was founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists who drew upon both left-wing organizational tactics and right-wing political views. Italian Fascism gravitated to the right in the early 1920s. A major element of fascist ideology that has been deemed to be far right is its stated goal to promote the right of a supposedly superior people to dominate, while purging society of supposedly inferior elements.
The Italians who invented Fascism were right wing. Mussolini was a Fascist who then used Authoritarianism as a tool to maintain his power in a Fascist state.
Good lord, I know they are arguing this because they think it’s funny, but reality exists.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:46 pm@162 republicans focus on benefiting their rich donors. Who got the vast majority of trump/ryan tax cut or the bush tax cut. They want to cut soc. security for more tax cuts for the rich as reagan did in so called social security reform. Ban abortion and cut welfare spending after they are born. Reagan called himself reaganhood he steals from the poor to give to the rich! Sort of robinhood in reverse!
asset (dd0181) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:46 pmKevin,
Part of my problem with Nikki Haley is, when she had the opportunity at the start of the campaign, she chose to walk a tightrope with MAGA, and did not condemn Trump for his corruption, particularly his illegal efforts to overturn a legitimate election. and stated intention to try and diminish, if not out certain parts of the Constitution, and disregard for the rule of law. I believe she, and any other candidate, needed to make a severe separation from Trump, because he is not a conservative, and he is a Republican out of convenience. The problem is that this is the Republican party today. Conservatism has a little meaning; retribution and authoritarianism is the heart of it. Haley did not have the courage to separate from Trump and his actions. That she worked in his administration made it even more necessary than if she hadn’t. Because she declined to make a firm stand against him and what he stands for, a question of trustworthy about her beliefs and policies is reasonable.
Dana (8e902f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:46 pm@227 thats what the squad (and I am helping) are doing for the democratic party as sean patrick maloney recently found out the hard way when the left didn’t vote for him in 2022.
asset (dd0181) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:49 pmWhat’s the point in arguing this, even if you were right, is Fascism not bad?
Or Authoritarianism.
What part of MAGA is anti-statist? It’s differently statist, to be sure, and they claim to be right wing.
So what’s your point?
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:52 pm@ Dustin,
I don’t think so. I think De Santis is already looking for an off ramp: he cancelled all his Sunday morning appearances, and his website took down any scheduled rallies and events.
Dana (8e902f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:54 pmAntifa is short for “anti-fascist”, but most are either left-wing anarchists or communists, and communists are known to use violence to stifle dissent. Another name they call themselves is Nazi punchers, apparently unaware that their tactics are scarcely different from the fascists they’re confronting.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:55 pmYou may be right. He was beating Haley despite an enormous campaign against him. But the folks who funded that campaign and wanted Haley + Trump will be the same folks at the convention. I can’t imagine Haley being the nominee because… come on. Just come on.
Doesn’t really matter to me. Y’all republicans do what you want with your party. It’s none of my business.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:00 pmSo what’s your point?
I don’t argue that Trump is a fascist. He is. He is also authoritarian, racist, protectionist, militarist and xenophobic.
I just don’t think he’s right-wing. He’s populist, anti-elite, anti-education and favors taxes that benefit the working class and disfavor the highly trained. Bastions of wealth support his foes, not him.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:00 pmDana, that is true. Even in the last month, she has foot in mouthed some questions. The whole “what was the cause of the civil war” brouhaha. In 2000, sure , everyone agreed that it was slavery AND a bunch of other things depending on who in the south you were talking about. But in 2023-4, you have to say it all, because you are either getting gotcha’d, the alt-right will endorse you, or both.
She’s from South Carolina, she’s a minority woman who became a leader in South Carolina, so she knows the answer. But she flubbed.
She’d be a huge improvement over Trump, but that’s a low bar. Would she be a good president? I don’t know, leadership of the US also means not flubbing the details, because they matter. T
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:03 pmDana (8e902f) — 1/21/2024 @ 2:46 pm
In hindsight, would Haley breaking with Trump publicly have helped her seeking the nomination? She did not believe (no Republican believed, hence the acquittal) that Trump was viable after J6. She initially tried to make that case, but her phone rang and rang and rang and the people calling her told her she was cutting her own throat. Just let Trump fade away.
Obviously it didn’t work. Not only did the Biden administration slow-walk the charges — possibly with the intention that the verdicts would arrive during the general election — but Trump himself was not inclined to fade away. There were still some pillars standing in the temple.
Are you saying that she should have then turned and denounced Trump? Why? Because it would help her in 2024? Or because it was “right”? I for one prefer a practical politician to a Quioxte. YMMV.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:10 pm*258: I don’t argue that Trump isn’t a fascist…
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:11 pmAntifa is short for “anti-fascist”
That doesn’t mean they are not fascists. They dimply disagree about the proper order of society (preferring, at first blush, none, at second blush people like themselves).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:14 pmBy definition that means other wealthy populations support him. That is the meaning of the word bastion.
Trump and MAGA say they are the right wing, I’ll believe what they say. It’s not the same as what Americans have historically judge it on the conservative-liberal divide, but that’s what right and left aren’t as clear as conservative and liberal.
MAGA and Trump are alt-stuff, they are fundementally an internet meme made into a human for the lolz and took over the grand old party.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:14 pmIt’s official, DeSantis drops out of race:
Dana (8e902f) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:19 pmTraditionalist conservatives have no home in the American political system today. There is no real home for us in a two party system, and creating a new political party is hard.
We’re Guam or maybe Puerto Rico, part of but not represented in our own country.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:21 pmRon DeSantis Drops Out of Presidential Race and Endorses Trump
Who gets the Zieglers?
nk (e35e3b) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:23 pmBTW, I withheld the f-word about Trump until his “perfect call” with Raffensperger, when he tried to strong-arm a state SecState into reversing an election result. J6 and his attempted coup, in my mind, only further confirmed his fascism.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:34 pmFor Tom Nichols, the fascist line was crossed when Trump talked about illegal immigrants “poisoning the blood of our country”.
@225
I still believe a Trump lead Whitehouse is the less bad option than another 4 years of Biden.
In a weird way, after Trump’s 2nd term, he goes away… Then, the GOP party need to rebuild/reinvent itself.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:39 pmTraditional conservatives are represented by Republicans now more than ever. You just hate the icky social conservatives that you always depended upon but never supported.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:47 pmTom Nichols is a lefty sympathizer that has ranted about Trump and conservatives for 8 years. I’ve called him out using his own words on here countless times. Go look up his own words and the way he speaks about others before you throw stones.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:48 pmWhembly, you are correct.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:49 pmBiden is using the powers of the federal government to try and jail his political opponent.
Who is the fascist again?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:55 pmSaid the guy who claims there’s a place in the GOP for traditional conservatives.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:57 pmYou think this cult of personality, already fawning over Trump’s kids, goes away?
I think the way to be done worrying about it is to be a conservative democrat. Used to be very common around where I am. Ralph Hall, Ann Richards, etc. That’s the way I’m going.
Besides, Trump didn’t want to win in 2016. He threw 2020. He will do that again this year, raising millions on another ‘stop the steal’ drive, and then run in 2028, and have someone inherit his dynasty in 2032. There is a way to stop this. For the GOP to burn to the ground.
If some of you guys want to support a Pelosi-donor/thief/adulturer/whoremonger who supports Trans and BLM and border amnesty and 8 trillion dollar deficits, and various expansions of administrative government power, be my guest, but you are not conservative. You can insist every election is Flight 93 so I better make my binary choice… and guess what: I agree.
I definitely do.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 3:59 pmAre social conservatives supposedly differently conservative? Do you think Trump cares one whit about social issues?
Maybe you are thinking about evangelicals, maybe you are just mouthing words because LOLZ. But you couldn’t be more incorrect.
Colonel Klink (ret) (96f56a) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:03 pmIt’s fitting that the DeSantis campaign dies with a fake Churchill quote.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:11 pmYou’re confused, Rob. Trump is the bully and criminal, not the victim.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:14 pmHe’s been accorded due process and was indicted under the rule of law.
A fascist regime would say Trump is above the law. Oh wait, Trump is saying he’s the above law, what with his “absolute immunity” rubbish.
If you guys actually wanted to beat Trump you should’ve jumped at the chance to support DeSantis. But that didn’t matter. So go on.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:16 pm100% correct.
The lawfare that many desired to “get Trump” is going to “get Trump” elected.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:22 pm@274
Yes.
No. I’m #NeverDemocrats.
Many of those Democrats you’ve listed may campaign as moderate/conservative Democrats. But, they vote lockstep and the progressives in their party has an outsized influence.
So. No. I’m voting against any Democrats.
Trump’s done after 2024…Father time will have a say.
Only chance for having any sort of conservative agenda is voting against Democrats, imo.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:24 pmMods, please fish my post @280 out of moderation.
No clue why it’s stuck there.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:25 pmTrump.
It’s not fascism to prosecute crimes, and it’s certainly not fascism to preside over an administration that contains a Justice Department that prosecutes crimes.
Or do you honestly think Donald Trump is not a criminal?
Patterico (7d1343) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:26 pm@278
I mean… yeah.
We all deserve the candidates, and we should get it good and hard.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:27 pmVery very very true.
Holding their nose at Desantis but also saying Trump is a tyrant criminal is … not working out mathemagically.
But NJ, I don’t think Desantis endorsed Trump in your quote above. He said he would honor his pledge, and he said Trump is superior to someone who prob isn’t on the ballot. We’ll see what happens but… I barely care. I’m not in the GOP and will not vote for Republicans unless there is a very specific reason that I know a lot about… and I’m just not that smart to pay attention or know that much.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:28 pmSame reason I had to fish Dustin’s out: the word “whoremonger.”
Having “whore” as a filtered word is a relic of the happyfeet era.
Patterico (7d1343) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:28 pmWhy?
The deficit spending and war? The sleazy family values?
Obv Trump isn’t #neverdem if he donates to so many and spent most of his administration courting Tupac fans.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:30 pmMy bad my bad with the filter.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:30 pmSo you don’t think Trump is guilty in the classified documents case? Seriously?
Patterico (7d1343) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:30 pmAnyone who would vote Trump at this point is a civic disaster.
Patterico (7d1343) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:31 pmHere’s the other thing: there are some pretty close primary contests for democrats around me. A good friend of mine is running to replace the Travis County DA, an extreme radical. My buddy is a moderate democrat, and a career prosecutor who is good at putting dangerous people in prison (something the current DA is not effective at).
A lot of conservatives can make an immediate difference in 2024 if they vote against the radical left. If they vote for the moderate or conservative options they actually have, and abandon the GOP, which is set for more of the same losing anyway. 2018, 2020, 2022. We know what’s up.
Both parties have more-than-polarized and are barely even slogans. Creating an incentive for democrats to appeal to a broad group is just smart politics. And the GOP has left me.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:34 pmTrump’s done after 2024…Father time will have a say.
I think so, too, but we will not know for sure until LIV stops hosting their tournaments at his golf clubs and China revokes his more than 100 trademarks. Domestic donors sending their beer money to his leadership PAC is not an accurate indicator.
nk (da609d) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:39 pmAlso, Whembly and NJ: congrats. It’s pretty clear your team won the primary and I sincerely, no passive aggressive anything, hope you enjoy that. These days political nerds like us do not get a lot of fun and Ws. Enjoy the popularity of your views. Y’all are both smart guys who love your country, and it’s a shame you don’t see what I see, but that’s not going to change so enjoy something fun.
Last time I actually saw my guy win was November 2004. I thought rumors of the GOP’s decline were proven false. Oops. Haven’t even had my guy win a primary since then. It was fun. I recall Trump’s win in 2016 because I was working the night shift as a police officer and democrats in Hillary Victory parties kept setting off fire alarms, particular at the LBJ public policy school. Which was actually hilarious until it got annoying.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:41 pmExactly what I have argued. Haley’s die was cast when she (and every other candidate except Christie and Hutchinson) in August 2023 when they raised their hand in defense of Donald Trump. After that, there was no way any of the hand raisers could credibly confront Trump on anything.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:43 pm@286
Democrats are objectively pushing evil agendas.
The biggest one is the southern border.
The amount of human misery and tragedy that allowed the cartels to facilitate illegal immigration will be something that will be our national shame.
Other other evil is the wishy-washy support of Israel.
Furthermore, Biden projects absolute weakness in the world stage, that allows for other countries to get randy, such that it wouldn’t have happened under a GOP administration (I’m including Trump here too).
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:48 pm@289
My view’s the opposite.
Anyone who purposely, via action or inaction that helps Democrats is a civic disaster.
How can anyone consider that the 1st Biden term is anything other than an unmitigating disaster that shouldn’t get a 2nd term.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:51 pm@292
I don’t enjoy it.
Like I said, I’m a DeSantis guy who would’ve voted for the other non-Trump candidates too.
Nominating Trump is like playing a game on the most difficult “expert” setting.
I’m just focused on the prize.
That there will be a GOP President in 2024.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:53 pmI’m sticking to my charade theory.
Rona McDaniels which is to say the National Republican Committee which is to say every Republican who wants to keep their phony-baloney job, is not ready to try to make a go of it without Trump’s supporters.
So they put on a phony primary show to keep out any serious contender who might have had a chance against Trump by diluting the money and votes.
nk (da609d) — 1/21/2024 @ 4:54 pmWe both supported DeSantis. We both agree that the left must be stopped.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:00 pmMy bad, sir. I am sorry then. Desantis didn’t get a fair shake in my opinion, and he probably won’t have a chance in 2028 against Trump’s primary campaign. Frustrating and… stupid.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1PE0N2/
OK
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:00 pmNJ, I’m not surprised you supported Desantis, in my opinion the best option. My apologies. For years and years I’ve said a relected governor who is a veteran checks most of my boxes if he’s conservative.
The path to beat Trump was crystal clear, and republicans who turned their nose up at Desantis are going to have a hard time explaining why they did that if they are OK with the democrat candidate (it’s unclear to me who that will be). I guess to some extent, it’s because Desantis played the game, offering to pardon Trump, using some of their memes. I think Cruz deadened me to taking that kind of thing seriously. It is a game and it’s also serious. But I think Desantis would have made things happen in the White House that no one else could have, and I don’t think he’s particularly like Trump.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:04 pmIt is an unmitigated disaster.
Except that Trump would be worse, because he tries to steal elections and because he is a criminal.
I notice you did not respond to my repeated questions about whether you believe he is a criminal who is guilty of the classified documents crimes at a minimum. I assume that’s because you are rational and know he is a criminal. And surely you also know he tried to steal the last election.
These are what Nick Catoggio aka allahpundit accurately characterizes as “first-order concerns.” Second-order concerns include the stuff we usually worry about: inflation, the border, etc. If you have a guy in charge who is a blatant and provable criminal who tries to steal elections, that’s a problem bigger than any of the crap Trump voters are worried about. It is your disregard of these concerns that makes you, not I, the civic disaster.
Patterico (7d1343) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:05 pmFor me, the prize is not some blinkered partisan outcome, but getting someone in office who is not a provable undeniable criminal and who does not try to steal elections. Also, having someone who is not Putin’s bitch and will not let China invade Taiwan without consequence would be nice.
Patterico (7d1343) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:07 pmPatterico, my stomach is roiling. I have watched so many political types on the Right playing a weird combination game of Twister and Limbo. Don’t like DeSantis because of X? The people saying that overlook things much worse from DJT. Don’t like Haley because of Y? Again, overlooking things much worse than DJT.
If folks feel that they must vote for DJT, fine. I can’t do it. And I am not alone. There were other ways to fight the Establishment than to support that person.
I detest this slow motion car crash. But we get the government we deserve.
Good and hard.
Simon Jester (ddc04f) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:17 pm@301
I disagree that he’s a criminal.
Trump had his time in court to try to make his case.
Trump tried to politically “twist” arms to advocate that he believed the election was stolen, as numerous other sore losers has done in the past.
He’s not unique.
I don’t know what to think of the classified documents case.
Why isn’t President Joe Biden being charged with his claissified documents mishandling while a Senator?
That’s his “first-order of concerns”.
He doesn’t dictate the criterions of what is or is not important to me.
MY “first-order of concerns” is to advocate in any way I can, that there should be a GOP President, GOP House and GOP Senate.
Because there are ZERO f’n democratic policies that I’m willing to support domestically. (I can’t think of any).
And I already told this story here, my son lost 2 of his best friend to fentanyl overdose, that were “street” narcotics. The border policies help facilitates this, and that chaos is a CHOICE on democrats. They CHOSE this.
And furthermore, I don’t have a view that our way of life and governance is so weak, that it couldn’t handle a 2nd chaotic Trump term. 2020 should lay that to rest.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:23 pmThis will shock most of you, but my dad lives in Florida and is a big Trump supporter. I argued with him time and time again about Trump’s baggage and why DeSantis was the better candidate for America and for political considerations. But in the end the leftist lawfare is what caused the Republican base to flock to Trump.
I think many here don’t realize how much the establishment and government types are despised by much of America. If you don’t see why people think the Trump court cases are witch hunts, you need to speak to more people.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:24 pmBecause he’s President now, though he can be impeached and removed from office. Biden can be charged after that.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:39 pmOn a small bright side, Argentinian President Javier Milei’s speech at the World Economic Forum was a thing of beauty and said many things those pompous totalitarian wannabes needed to hear.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:39 pmI think I read this situation differently from you. I think it’s true Trump’s nomination was greatly helped by some of the timing of these charges. Some say that was intentional because Desantis would have crushed the democrats in November, and Trump post conviction will lose too much support.
I don’t think Trump wants to win. I think he wants to raise money. I think Jan 6 happened largely because Trump’s fundraising train got ahead of itself. I think Trump is amazed he beat Hillary (he was a protest vote for many). His campaign doesn’t seem to be trying that hard to unify. Many of the online voices for Trump stand to make far more money if he loses again. He is raising a ton of money that is starving close contests around the country, same as it did in 2018 and 2020 and 2022. Trump also isn’t picking winners in close contests. He will raise much more in 2024 if the election is ‘stolen’ again (if he loses and pretends he won because mailed ballots are counted last, and his campaign refuses to promote mailed ballots). Trump actually raises even more money this way because he gets to do it again in 2028.
Now, as for the witch hunt thing, I don’t really want to discuss his legal problems. He will get his day in court. Last week he was bashing a woman who sued him and won for sexual abuses. Three women testified Trump did this stuff, which is similar to what Ivana Trump claimed Trump did to her in her divorce petition, and similar to some of Trump’s ‘grab them’ bragging.
No doubt, you’ve never pretended Trump is a saint. I think we both know he’s done this kind of stuff. That’s not a witch hunt. Witches aren’t real, and Trump’s sexual abuses are real.
Whembly mentioned Biden did it too, with respect to classified docs. No doubt, many democrats commit sexual abuses. In both cases, that’s not a witch hunt. It’s selective prosecution. I think it’s fair to say Trump did a lot of of things that deserve justice, as did Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:41 pmWhat mishandling? The FBI twice searched the Senate papers he kept at the University of Delaware (and, unlike presidential records, they are his personal property), and no classified materials were found. Like with Pence, Special Counsel Hur cleared Biden.
Trump is a different issue. He deliberately kept classified materials at his country and refused to return them, even after a subpoena. It’s a clear breach of the Espionage Act.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:43 pmRip
I don’t think Haley has to be credible to your standard. She just has to pound Trump consistently, effectively, all day every day for the next 4-6 weeks AND convince/excite voters with anything Trump can do, I can do better minus the nonsense. If she can’t do those two things perfectly then then she isn’t the right person for the 2024 job requirements. She has to beat Trump and emerge with enough gas left in the tank to convince Trump supporters and people in the middle who would rather not see a 4 year Bidenville sequel. She also is going to need the House and Senate. Very tall order and she has my admiration for seeing the challenge and stepping into it. Also wouldn’t be shocked if she peaks out here, the wheels come off, the firetruck has to spray the whole thing down with foam.
If Trump wasn’t in the race she’d have a much much easier task
The best thing for the country would be for Trump to step aside and endorse her
steveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:44 pmHaley is one of the biggest reasons Trump is going to be the nominee. Her ads were clearly coordinated to shut down Trump’s actual challenger. There is no point looking at her like an option. I doubt she’s the VP candidate either, and Trump won’t have a cabinet to put her in. She can help Boeing find more fuselage panels to save bolt-money on.
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:50 pmBTW, if you want to see real vote fraud, just go to fascist Russia, but at your own peril.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:53 pmA Sitting President’s Amenability to Indictment and Criminal Prosecution
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 5:58 pmIf Haley drops out, what will keep Trump in the news besides his court cases, and the occasional exceptionally deranged rant (and it’s already hard for him to outdo himself), for the next six months?
No, the “undespised” establishment and government types will make her stay around as the mild headwind that Trump can tack against instead of just being carried along by the current, I think.
nk (6c45b4) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:07 pmNov 2024: The sleeper vs the creeper. Wunnerful.
qdpsteve again (e9800e) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:15 pmI know people think Trump is in debt to Putin, but don’t think he’ll be giving Alaska back to Russia. Nor will Haley. Biden might find Putin in Dutch Harbor, try to negotiate and fail.
There is an old reservoir near my home that periodically gets spray painted with the tiresome “THIS IS STOLON LAND”. Yes the person does misspell it. This group periodically does the same with the Old Spanish Mission. Glad to see Putin join these idiots.
I’m pretty sure I know who is doing the painting of the reservoir. The guy drives by it twice a day in a truck he’s painted with a lot of misspelled nonsense in a similar style, but our PD is busy downtown observing petty crimes
steveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:18 pmRight-Wing Hyperbolic Statement of the Day, and it’s a fearmongering emotion I’ve seen in this very thread.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:20 pmThat’s a tall order, and something she has tried sporadically; but it’s too little too late. I don’t think she can say anything to change a Trump voter’s mind. They’re happy with their choice.
She is so far behind in the polls (-54 nationally; -35 in South Carolina, where she is but a distant memory; -45 in Florida; -48 in Michigan) that only a win in New Hampshire can realistically keep her campaign alive.
Her Wall Street backers want a win in New Hampshire, otherwise they may bow to the inevitable.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:21 pmThat’s all he needs. He’s been treating his court appearances as campaign events, so why would he stop?
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:25 pmIf you can’t see that the principle that he who wins the election is the one who takes office is more Important than any other issue, you are a civic disaster.
That’s the kind of thing that leads to actual civil war. And should. If the person not elected took office, the citizenry would be morally justified in using any force necessary to remedy that. That’s more dire than fentanyl and it’s not debatable.
Patterico (5492bc) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:58 pmThe man who fraudulently takes office when another was elected deserves the fate of a Mussolini. Look it up if you have forgotten.
Patterico (5492bc) — 1/21/2024 @ 6:59 pmDana: “Part of my problem with Nikki Haley is, when she had the opportunity at the start of the campaign, she chose to walk a tightrope with MAGA”
I’ve been putting some thought on the question of persuasion. I know what persuades me. I can reasonably understand what would persuade you. I struggle mightily to what might persuade a Trump supporter post J6.
If Men are from Mars and Women from Venus, these post-J6 Trumpists are from Alpha Centauri. There was violence ongoing at the Capitol on J6….and like Scrooge’s three ghosts, Trump was visited by his legal and campaign advisors, called by Sean Hannity, and implored by Ivanka to call off the horde. But like Kristen Bell in the Carvana “Hold” commercials, Trump refused any action…waiting over three hours. Seemingly by his cold exchange with a frantic Kevin McCarthy, he was rooting for the rioters.
That’s the narrative that Haley should have used to move Trump’s support. Just a meticulous detailing of what he did and didn’t do. She didn’t need to shame anyone, but make it a teachable moment. Other than Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Mitt Romney and a few other brave souls, few on the Right wanted to honestly confront the dereliction of duty…let alone the brazenness of the fake elector scheme.
The Right just assumed the position of defense attorney and filled in their cognitive dissonance with consiracy and rationalization. If ever a President should have been fired on the spot and sent packing, it was then. That’s the simple narrative: we can’t have a President that would incite a riot then watch and do nothing to stop it. Especially when all it would have taken was a simple Tweet.
Where Christie failed and Haley failed to try was to dramatize the failure of leadership. Name-calling and saying Trump is a selfish sociopath narcissist unloads but does not persuade. A leader takes care of his people and draws firm lines. Trump didn’t care who got hurt for 187 minutes. His tantrum was more important than people’s lives. Let the supporter draw the conclusion of what should follow.
The persuasion here was infintely difficult because of the disinformation fire hose from Trump-protecting media. How far into the narrative would the boo’s and jeers erupt? Trump must be made as small as his actions. Let him lie, but once the seed is planted, he loses his mystique. He was a petulant bully on J6. Paint the picture…
AJ_Liberty (f7654a) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:10 pm@305 “That’s his “first-order of concerns”.
He doesn’t dictate the criterions of what is or is not important to me.”
Well put.
Let’s assume the worst, thst Trump would try to steal more elections and attempt to be a dictator. Let’s assume the most apocalyptic scenario. It would get nowhere. Whatever you think he tried to do on Jan6, it didn’t work. It had zero chance of working. Under what scenario would it succeed? Nobody has one that’s remotely plausible.
In contrast, Biden’s mess isn’t being stopped in this term and it won’t be stopped next term. A president who won’t protect our territorial integrity isn’t a president that can be trusted with anything, including elections. And, his efforts to open the floodgates of lawlessness at the border are working as intended. Nothing is stopping it. He might bribe Mexico to ease up for the election but it will be back on blast after. He’ll have four more years of appointing bad actors to the bench. Four more years of onerous regulations. Biden is the bigger threat simply because his tireless efforts to hamstring our country wouldn’t be stopped.
lloyd (ae6294) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:12 pm@321
I think it’s an asinine position to believe that Trump was anywhere close to fraudulently taking office in 2020 after he lost all possible avenue in courts AND at Congress.
To believe otherwise is to believe that our system of governance is that weak. That is engaging in civic disaster and it’s not debatable.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:13 pmLol OK whatever
Patterico (5492bc) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:14 pmJFC dude, this is your case FOR him?
Dustin (bd6b22) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:20 pm@326
I see. Ok my dude.
whembly (7b47da) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:31 pmOMG, Patterico actually approved a comment of mine for the first time in two years. Instead of rehashing all my issues with him, I’ll just go ahead and say thanks.
And to the topic at hand, I am actually a bit depressed that DeSantis won’t be going to the mat. IMHO he was so much more preferable than BOAR*, it’s not even funny.
(BOAR is what I’ve been calling Trump lately. It stands for Big Orange Angry Revenge.)
qdpsteve again (e9800e) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:35 pm@298 I feel the same way about the right and generation Z agrees with me and only half have turned 18. Population under 16 is now majority POC! AOC 2028!
asset (eb3e4b) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:50 pmI come here amazed at the hatred of trump from conservatives. Over at DU I understand the hatred of trump from the establishment democrats he crushed their corporate stooge hillary and discredited them. Trump derangement syndrome like trump collusion with putin. Here It must be hell hath no furry like a conservative party scorned. I on the left don’t really hate trump except separating the migrant babies from their parents. It those in the middle of both parties who hate trump the most. If trump wins it helps AOC become president. There are so many who can’t wait to be martyrs standing up to trump.
asset (eb3e4b) — 1/21/2024 @ 8:07 pmI’ve got a fun story. There is a good article about housing in the local communist weekly. This weekly is always beating the drum about how housing will solve homelessness, housing is good for the people, but now, they are bemoaning that these 5000 units will put a filthy profit into developers hands. That is fun, but the great part is that one of the potential profiteers is a part time local who runs a Beverly Hills liposuction clinic, the same guy who has admitted to using the harvested(?) fat to make the “LipoDiesel” he runs through his Mercedes 320. The paper ran a photo of the guy and a bell went off. I’ve seen him driving up and down a local hilly road popular with cyclists, one of them is me. How can I recognize a man driving by? Well, for one, there are several very narrow points on the upper road and two 10MPH switchbacks road you are more or less face to face and… his car has a very unique smell. I knew it was some type of home brewed biodiesel but… screw me I am now confident I’ve inhaled Lipodiesel on numerous occasions in the past. Deeply. I try to do the right thing and exercise outside on a quiet rural road and this happens
steveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 8:51 pmsteveg (ff5c07) — 1/21/2024 @ 8:51 pm
Lipodiesel? Now there’s a source of energy America will never run out of. 😛
norcal (251b50) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:33 pm“JFC dude, this is your case FOR him?”
No, assuming your ridiculous apocalyptic Trump scenarios as being true is not making the case for him. Seriously.
lloyd (ae6294) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:43 pmAnyone who brushes aside or looks the other way at Trump’s call for the “termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution” is a civic disaster.
This is so patently obvious that it shouldn’t even have to be stated.
norcal (251b50) — 1/21/2024 @ 9:48 pmI’d say Trump’s former Chief of Staff well explained why Trump is a first-order concern.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/21/2024 @ 10:13 pmIf it seems like I was pissy all day, well, I’ve been pissy all day. The idea of a Trump candidacy is indescribable.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 11:00 pmTrump and MAGA say they are the right wing,
It is a slander on the Right.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 11:03 pmAnyone who would vote Trump at this point is a civic disaster.
Agreed. But voting for Biden is a close second. I will vote for Donald Duck first.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 11:07 pmI assume that’s because you are rational and know he is a criminal. And surely you also know he tried to steal the last election.
But Biden is a criminal, too. Just of a lesser order. A Nixon, say. His administration is lawless in many ways, particularly with the border, and while the charges against Trump are genuine, the timing seems targeted on being too late to disqualify but not too late to influence the general election.
I do not for a moment think that Joe Biden gives a rat’s ass about fair and free elections or the US Constitution. I will not vote for Trump because Trump. That does not mean I’m for Biden.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 11:12 pmIf it were shown that the administration slow-walked the J6 charges to allow Trump to be the nominee, but be badly wounded, is that stealing the election?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/21/2024 @ 11:14 pmWhy I will vote third party hopefully Jill Stein. If Biden loses the democrat establishment will be discredited again and blame jill stein again assuming the deep state doesn’t hold a primary for trump. As the hysteria gets worse I wouldn’t bet on anything not happening. I think the stress of these trials are effecting trump inside so he comes even more of a bully to hide it. The thought of loss of his freedom terrifies him.
asset (eb3e4b) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:23 amRight there with you, and for the same reasons. Yesterday had a finality to the GOP race.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:44 am“You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he’ll say you’re wonderful…You can be the strongest, most dynamic, successful Republican and conservative in America ― but if you don’t kiss that ring, then he’ll try to trash you.”
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 3:35 am–Ron DeSantis, eight days before he kissed the ring
“But Biden is a criminal, too. Just of a lesser order. A Nixon, say. His administration is lawless in many ways, particularly with the border…”
This seems a little strained. The word criminal doesn’t just mean a policy that I don’t like. Illegals are being apprehended. The system is just being overwhelmed. There needs to be more resources. By your reasoning, Congressional leadership is also guilty of crimes. Incompetence is different from illegal. No less disqualifying, but words should have meaning.
Trump is accused of breaking actual federal statutes. There is evidence that convinced a grand jury. If Biden violated a statute, I’m sure Jim Jordan and James Comer would be all over it. There would be charges or a “serious” investigation. Impeachable? Sure, but in this environment, not close to convictable, especially with Congress playing games with the border funding compromise.
Personally, I’m more bothered by Biden’s emergency Executive Orders to compel large companies to require Covid vaccinations, unilaterally forgiving student debt, and extending rent forgiveness. There was a process to challenge these but he abused his prerogative. Again, not criminal, but certainly impeachable and wrong. His supporters would argue he was fighting for them, though obviously he was picking winners and losers and exploiting a crisis to do so. Afghanistan is another act of incompetence and still no one has paid the price. Criminal? Not unless we buy Trump’s argument for immunity.
To this conservative, Biden must go. You just don’t pick an authoritarian criminal who frankly is a little unhinged to replace him. Indirectly killing NATO and abandoning Ukraine would be quite the cost to moving on from Biden….
AJ_Liberty (f7654a) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:17 amhttps://dailycaller.com/2024/01/21/opinion-why-are-these-republicans-backing-a-carbon-tax-mike-mckenna/
The unitary strikes again. Trying to bankrupt America’s one lying tax at a time.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:21 amhttps://www.ajc.com/politics/bank-records-da-willis-and-special-prosecutor-traveled-together-during-trump-probe/ZNDCH5RHDFGC5CKRWNS7HI2R5M/
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:57 amLast Friday, an attorney for Joycelyn Wade, ex-wfie of the GA special prosecutor, appeared to bolster Merchant’s claims by producing some of her ex’s credit card statements. They showed that he purchased airline tickets for himself and Willis for trips to San Francisco, Miami and Aruba in 2022 and 2023.
whembly,
Just to confirm — your position is that it is ok to work for Trump’s election because the system will be able to constrain his dictatorial urges and he’ll do something about getting the border under control.
OK. My mileage varies. I’m not going to belabor the point.
Can I ask whether you understand why our host and others here might feel differently?
Appalled (82663a) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:09 am@348
In a nutshell… you got it.
I don’t understand it.
I don’t understand because in order for our “host and others” justify their positions, they would also have to believe that our system of governance is so weak, that it couldn’t handle a Trump 2nd term. Such that, our system is/would be weak to allow a dictatorial POTUS outright flies in the face that we have 2 other co-equal branches that can check runaway POTUS.
All you have to do, is look back in Trump’s 1st term. There were so many nation-wide injunctions, that slowed Trump’s agendas. He was impeached.
A dictator don’t simply leave office when his opponent is inaugurated.
But, enough with that. My position are strictly policy driven. If you’re center-right leaning or more, I don’t understand how you can ignore the absolute disaster that we lived through during Biden’s 1st term. At least with Trump, along with the absolute chaos he brings, he does put points on the board for the GOPs, namely his court picks.
Or, put it more succinctly, do you want a 2nd Biden term where he nominates absolute jokes to the courts, culminating to Justice “I can’t define a woman” Brown? He can give progressives more staying power for probably the rest of our lives.
Or, for the low low payment of 4 years of Trumpian chaos, do you want more judges in the molds of Kavanaugh/Barret/Gorsuch, that activist progressives are relegated to its rightful place of the minority kooks?
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:24 amTo me, the most important thing to remember is this: DJT chose to do the things that he has done, said the things he has said. With even a modicum of self control, just imagine the good he could do.
You know the meme about “Today I chose violence”? with kittens and such.
DJT chooses to be this awful person. He steps on his own…tie…almost every time.
I will not vote for Biden. I also will not vote for DJT.
If you choose to do either of those things, you are not evil or stupid. We just differ.
I just ask you to consider: what did you believe in, prior to DJT? And do you still believe those things?
Again, my opinion only, and with great respect.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:40 amIndirectly killing NATO and abandoning Ukraine would be quite the cost to moving on from Biden….
Leaving NATO would be impeachable. I think that even GOP Senators would treat it as such.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:46 amTrump cannot unilaterally leave NATO (Congress must authorize it with a supermajority vote now), but he could make it clear that he will not honor article 5 and he could start moving U.S. forces. It’s unclear to me whether enough Republicans would oppose him, especially after they’ve been warned and helped elect the guy. What would give anyone confidence that Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley would suddenly grow a spine? This is who they are endorsing.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:59 am“they would also have to believe that our system of governance is so weak”
Just imagine Kari Lake being in Mike Pence’s position. Is there any doubt that the electoral votes would have been swapped? Replace William Barr or Jeffrey Rosen by Jeffrey Clark at Attorney General, do we see DoJ sanction the existence of election fraud? Substitute Mark Esper by Michael Flynn, do you see the Insurrection Act invoked and maybe martial law? Let’s next imagine who Trump might appoint as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff….and these can be acting appointments…and how that individual might expedite Trump’s desire remove us from defensive positions. “He would be impeached!” But convicted and removed? Says who? Senators will still fear for their own and their family’s safety. How does J6 give you any confidence that GOP senators will hold Trump accountable.
The reality is that in his first term, Trump was constrained by having to be re-elected. Now he would not be. He’s learned that loyalty is everything. Why do we imagine him finding people like Kelly, Mattis, Tillerson, and Esper that might check his excesses? Trump has stress tested our system repeatedly. What do we learn from that?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:20 am@350
Simon, happy to discuss/debate with you!
I think that question probably explains my positions now that I think about it.
Prior to DJT and currently, I’ve always viewed elected officials as I do when I rent a car. They’re a means to an end. Once I’m done with them, I move on.
Which party/candidate do you believe will put “points on the board” for you should be the driver imo. Not whether or not you personally dislike or worship the candidate. That way, on the individual level, you’re less likely to be disappointed.
Presidents serves 4 year terms, to max of 8 years. But they can build lasting legacies/infamousies that can last a lifetime.
What party do you want to put points on the board?
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:22 amThe fact that we are even having a conversation about presidential immunity for criminal acts is INSANE! Anyone proposing such nonsense is unfit. Fixing the border does not require a sociopath.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:25 am@353
YES!
At the worse, if Lake were successful initially which I doubt, the issue goes to Congress with simple majority in House/Senate to reject the elector slates. (now the threshold is higher)
The votes were no where near there, and it’d be dead effort. Thus, Lake would have to confirm the contested slate.
Courts rejected most right off the bat.
No.
You do know he pushed the issue in his 1st term, only to be convinced by these same people…right?
I disagree on that premise.
Trump is/was mainly constrained by his every desire to be liked by his detractors. How do you explain his constant hostile interviews by the likes of NY Times?
He was constrained by anyone he picks to fill his administration. You’re expecting them to be automatons with no agency to push back bad ideas.
But, again, Presidents should get their people in appointed positions.
That our system of governance is more than adequately handle such chaos.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:33 am@355
Not really. Its a good thing to codify guardrails.
Also, for the record, as argued in DC Circuit, Trump’s lawyer isn’t saying POTUS as absolute immunity. Only that an impeachment/conviction is required to open up potential POTUS actions to further judicial scrutiny.
Trump’s the only tool in the box left.
*shrug*
Not my fault that’s my only choice.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:36 amWhat would give anyone confidence that Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley would suddenly grow a spine? This is who they are endorsing.
How would either of them fare in their next election with 20 retired generals calling for their heads?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:59 amAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:25 am
Yes, it does, and therefore the border should not be “fixed.” And Biden is a bit of a sociopath, too.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/22/2024 @ 9:12 amThat section is constitutionally suspect, since it can be argued that the restriction interferes with the President’s powers under Article II of the Constitution to conduct foreign affairs and his role as commander in chief.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 9:14 amIt is also unclear from the provision (Section 1250A) in the 2024 National Defense Authorization Act whether it is a permanent enactment or only for the life of the authorization act, which is for only one year.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 9:26 amSince Michael Flynn did call for invoking the Insurrection Act and martial law, I find that to be a curious response.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 9:30 amProvide your evidence that retired generals have enough political influence to sway elections.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 9:34 amhttps://thefederalist.com/2024/01/19/ballots-cast-without-proof-of-citizenship-exploded-after-lawfare-crippled-arizona-election-laws/
The rule of law is for suckers. Leftists have made it clear they will win by any means necessary. Carry on pretending things are normal.
NJRob (3bd9fc) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:04 am> What are the odds that the House picks one of the two major candidates?
The House will pick Trump.
The House votes by state, one vote per state.
An absolute majority of state delegations are Republican controlled (which will not change as a result of the 2024 election), and *all* of them will vote for Trump, because any Republican not voting for Trump will be run out of the party and ejected at the next primary.
The Republicans in the legislature are not going to save us. Expecting them to is expecting them to *abandon their entire sequence of behavior over the last eight years*, and there’s absolutely no evidence that they will do that, or any plausible reason for them to.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:07 am> as argued in DC Circuit, Trump’s lawyer isn’t saying POTUS as absolute immunity. Only that an impeachment/conviction is required to open up potential POTUS actions to further judicial scrutiny.
Who cares? *Trump himself* is saying there needs to be absolute immunity.
And people are voting for him anyway.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:09 amKevin M,
(a) the election is extremely unlikely to change the fact that a majority of state delegations are republican controlled. The Republicans will unquestionably control: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia, Wyoming, and Wisconsin, no matter what happens in the election. That’s 25, right off the bat. So it comes down to whether the republicans are able to pick up a seat in Michigan, Minnesota, North Carolina, or Pennsylvania.
(b) the notion that the majority of elected Republicans in any state delegation would vote for anyone other than Trump is unrealistic; there is no meaningful opposition to Trump among elected Republicans, and there is no reason to believe it would develop.
A third party candidacy is a nice fantasy to sell to anti-Trumpists to get them to vote for someone other than Biden, creating a situation where Trump is almost guaranteed to win.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:26 amNJRob, at 365, quoting your linked article:
> in 2013 the justices ruled 7-2 that states could not add documentary proof of citizenship requirements to federal election registration forms. States must “accept and use” the standardized federal voter registration form for national elections under the 1993 National Voter Registration Act (NVRA).
Congress passed a law requiring a particular form to be used for voter registration for federal elections. It has the authority under Article I, Section 4 to do this:
> The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
Arizona was violating federal law, someone sued, and the US Supreme Court agreed that it was violating federal law.
When Congress uses its constitutional authority to alter the regulations about the manner of holding elections, why should states be allowed to simply *ignore* those alterations?
And how is it a leftist violation of the rule of law to insist that the constitutionally approved authority of Congress be respected in this case?
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:43 amFederal elections are, as stated above, “Elections for Senators and Representatives” (this was written at a time when Senators were elected by state legislatures)
But elections for presidential electors are state elections and that is governed by this clause:
Note: It is the date that the Electors vote that has to be the same throughout the United States, not the date the electors are chosen, but Congress has fixed that date as the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November , with a fail safe window in the case of a failed election (and early voting has somehow smuggled itself into this, with I think the idea that the vote is not officially cast until Election Day so that if somebody dies between the day he mails in his vote or casts and early vote, and Election Day, that vote is technically invalid but who’s checking? But in any case maybe state law can allow a dead person’s vote – who was alive and competent when the vote was tentatively cast) to count when it comes to presidential electors since they can do anything, but they probably need to do that explicitly..
It would of course, be very complicated logistically for a state to have separate voter registrations for members of Congress and president for elections held on the same date and place..
And elections for delegates to political party conventions are another thing altogether. At first it was believed state law governed them but the Supreme Court ruled in 1972 that apolitical party (being a private nongovernmental organization governed by the first amendment’s freedom of association) can do with the results what it wants.
In Nevada, this year, the Republican Party decided to use a caucus for selecting delegates and to disqualify from the caucus any candidate who participated in the primary. Only Nikki Haley (or maybe some minor candidates) chose the primary (in order to make Nevada irrelevant so that after New Hampsihire South Carolina wll be the next test))
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:12 am“Not my fault that’s my only choice.”
You seem to have yourself covered.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:13 amThey could also lose some seats in other states and they are not too likely to pick up many seats.
The House might be deadlocked. And knowing the election could go into the House could effect how people vote in certain districts. Some will pledge to vote for whoever carried their district or the state. There would only be the need for a few key defections (maybe two in Utah, tying the state?) and the House as a whole is likely to have a Democratic majority.
It is important, though that the No Labels candidate for vice president come in second in Electoral votes and probably should be a Senator.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:26 amAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:20 am
Yu need more than that to subvert the constitution.
This would have been challenged and Trump would not have had a majority for rejecting the electoral votes. (although that would change the default from accept to reject) It could also go into court some way.
It didn’t happen because the entire upper echelon f=of the Department of Justice threatened to resign and Trump needed votes in Congress, and then Trump and the others decided to treat this as if it had never happened.
Both Secretary of Defense and top military ranks need Senate confirmation and there are enough Senate Republicans to prevent that..
.and these can be acting appointments…and how that individual might expedite Trump’s desire remove us from defensive positions. “He would be impeached!” But convicted and removed? Says who? Senators will still fear for their own and their family’s safety. How does J6 give you any confidence that GOP senators will hold Trump accountable.
He still needs Senate confirmation for most appointments and Mitch McConnell held the Senate Republicans mostly together, so much so that after the storming of the Capitol started, Trump was worried that he wouldn’t even get one Senator to object to more Electoral votes, to start off the process.
It passed so far.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:38 amAJ_Liberty (f7654a) — 1/21/2024 @ 7:10 pm
That is not true. It took him less time than that to call for them not to attack the police, and he probably didn’t understand that that was happening at first. He did make excuses for them.
What he didn’t want to do is call for the crowd to disperse. He had to be really argued into that.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:47 amTrump’s court appearance was cancelled today due to Covid fears. One juror had a cold and the judge told him to get a Covid test (and not a flu test? There is a special antiviral for the flu, too) and Trump’s lawyer reported that her parents were sick and she had been with them within the past three days..
So court was cancelled.
Trump’s in a bad situation. He can’t deny the allegation even though the previous jury only found that that he did something (but not quite what his accuser said but close to what he said on the Access Hollywood tape except that things didn’t go the way he said on the tape that things went) was the most likely possibility
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:54 amPersonally, I don’t accept the concept that, just because Trump didn’t pull off his coup on J6, means it’s okay that he should be president again, because Democrats.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:20 pmFTR, I’m just as much NeverBiden as NeverTrump.
LOL!
Not a moment of self reflection about his own personal failings as a candidate such as his inability to establish a human connection with voters. It’s always someone else’s fault.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:23 pmHere’s Trump’s SCOTUS petition regarding the Colorado case:
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:24 pmhttps://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-719/298125/20240118171750343_Trump%20v%20Anderson%20Petitioner%20Brief%20on%20the%20Merits.pdf
January 18. 2024 No Labels press conference about them suing people saying they’ve gone beyond hardball politics into illegality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqdSgFS1kro
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:25 pm@376
I didn’t say it was “okay”. Its just that my guy lost and he’s the only vote possible for me.
*shrugs*
FTR, I’m #NeverDemocrats.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:28 pmSupreme Court Lets Border Patrol Cut Razor Wire Texas Installed to Stop Migrants
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:30 pmComplaint to DOJ about using political activists intimidation and fear against people attempting to gain ballot access. (against possible candidates saying to Democrats if you think you were vetted when you ran for Governor…you have no idea) Allege may ru afoul of the federal extortion statute.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:31 pmThreatening people involved with never working in politics again. Publicly shamed and lives ruined. Lieberman: This is not a political campaign. Another person: Laws against KKK also apply here.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:42 pm#380
You should root for the Supremes to allow states to exclude Trump from the ballot, because then the GOP would have to pick someone else.
I just don’t think they will — it would force them to declare January 6 was an insurrection and Trump participated in it. That’s not the sort of fact finding any appeals court wants to do. (If they punt by saying there was due process, so OK Colorado, the floodgates are open for retaliatory actions in red states, making a big old mess).
Appalled (82663a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:48 pmTrump said he would win California if it wasn’t rigged – his proof is his big crowds he gets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E8NpjpTxd8
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:54 pmAppalled (82663a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:48 pm
On paper and on the ballot – but they would say that their electors, if elected, would actually vote for Donald Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:56 pmDonald Trump: I would control the border in 24 hours. Jimmy Carter was actually one of the best presidents – he turns to (Roslyn? when was this spech delivered?) and says Biden makes him look good.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 12:58 pmIf you want to follow all the in-and-outs of 2024 ballot access, try https://ballot-access.org/
Example:
So, No Labels wants to close its primaries to unapproved candidates. What a concept.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:05 pmYet your vote for Trump does say “okay”. There are other choices besides R and D.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:07 pmTrump against mail in ballots. Said Jimmy Carter had acoimmission that came out against it. Said France abolished it and they just had an elction and had the results by that night. Democrats want ID at their convention (and credit cards except that is no longer true and was not needed for at least 20 years mostly) and want no ID only to cheat.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:09 pmSeventy percent of Trump supporters say they will not accept a Biden victory as legitimate. Holy Frack!
But 46% of Biden supporters say they will not accept a Trump victory.
Double frack.
https://angusreid.org/trump-biden-2024-election-security-fraud-american-democracy/
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:10 pmTrump against mail in ballots
Had he accepted them and not made it a test of loyalty, he would have won the 2020 election.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:11 pmI think No Labels does not want to endorse candidates for Congress and it says it is not a political party.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:11 pmYou should root for the Supremes to allow states to exclude Trump from the ballot, because then the GOP would have to pick someone else.
John Roberts will not save us.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:12 pmI think No Labels does not want to endorse candidates for Congress and it says it is not a political party.
But it is organized as one, and using laws for one. Truly independent campaigns rarely make the ballot.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:13 pmNews outside the bubble: Trump slurs words in speech (newsweek) The stress is taking its toll.. Kentucky rethugs pass bill making it a crime to be homeless and make shelter. Also make it legal to use deadly force against homeless. (DU)
asset (d08c34) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:21 pmA sure sign Tim Scott wants to be Trump’s VP.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:25 pmLOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:40 pm> Seventy percent of Trump supporters say they will not accept a Biden victory as legitimate. Holy Frack!
Of course not! Trump won in 2020 and the election was stolen from him, and the only way he could lose in 2024 is if the election is stolen again. How could that be legitimate? None of the people who stole the election have been ejected from power or punished, so they’re obviously going to do it again.
> But 46% of Biden supporters say they will not accept a Trump victory.
Of course not! Trump shouldn’t even be a candidate given that he’s guilty of insurrection as well as violating numerous state and federal laws while trying to steal an election. Him winning is *clearly* the system failing to adhere to its own rules.
—-
I’ll accept a Trump victory as legitimate, but i’ll also view it as almost certainly heralding the end of the Republic.
But then again I think it’s inevitable and the Republic is already lost.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:51 pm“Seventy percent of Trump supporters say they will not accept a Biden victory as legitimate. Holy Frack!”
This is why you can’t have a liar as the head of your party and why you can’t rely on the current version of right-wing media to police itself. We get here because people like Hannity and Tucker don’t shut this down….and the opinion side of news throttles the journalistic side. Brett Baier chases Hunter instead of addressing this ignorance. We’re heading for a crisis and sitting with one’s partisan flag isn’t the solution.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:55 pmSo Iran attacked American troops on an American base and all Biden’s spokesman says is that other than some traumatic brain injuries there wasn’t much harm to American troops.
And people want 4 more years of this…
NJRob (3bd9fc) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:56 pm#386 —
A number of states have faithless electors statutes, which I believe are consitutional.
Also, I am sure VP Kamela Harris will not accept votes for Trump if the Secretary of State of that state has not admitted him as guilty of insurrection.
Appalled (82663a) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:58 pmRIP Film director Norman Jewison (97). During his career he directed In the Heat of the Night (nominated for an Oscar for Best Director, the film won for Best Picture); Moonstruck (another Best Director nomination, received a Best Picture Oscar); the original Thomas Crown Affair; Fiddler on the Roof (a third nomination for Best Director, also a Best Picture winner); The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming (a Best Picture winner); The Cincinnati Kid; and …..And Justice For All.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 1:58 pm“A sure sign Tim Scott wants to be Trump’s VP.”
Scott has Pence-like qualities, but Trump needs help with suburban women. Also, will he be willing to beclown himself once the trial starts? To a degree, but I just don’t see him with the biggest Koolaid smile. His appeal is Christian virtue….can he lie and keep that look. I don’t think so. I don’t see Trump trusting him enough. He’ll be a backup. If it’s not Noem (where I would put my money), then it’s someone who might help him in the swing states. I don’t think that’s Scott.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:00 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:00 pmNoem, Stefanik, or JD Vance.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:03 pm@406, Unfortunately, that’s probably whose in his top 5. Kari Lake would have been there too but her legal woes…and her loss knocks her down that list. Ramaswamy is just too darn unlikable to be VP. I think Trump will want some arm candy. Noem’s been soiled by Lewandowski….she’s too perfect…her only downside is her state is irrelevant
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:15 pm@381
I suspect it has to do with how the case was presented to the court.
Based on passed precedent, the court’s right that only the Feds has jurisdiction.
What wasn’t in front of the court, is what recourse does states have, if Feds don’t enforce existing laws. I don’t think that was litigated.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:20 pmStefanik or Mace.
Dana (8e902f) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:23 pm@384
They won’t. As much as I want a “not-Trump”, I fear letting states arbitrarily kick candidates off the ballots is far more danger.
If the court does allow Colorado to kick of Trump from the ballot, THAT opens the floodgates for open retaliatory actions in red states.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:32 pm> And people want 4 more years of this…
Give us an alternative who isn’t Trump and many of us would consider it. But right now it looks like it’s Biden or Trump and, while I don’t think either of them is going to do a *good* job, one of them is a corrupt narcissistic conman with the instincts of a dictator who is openly advocating for Presidents to be allowed to violate the law with impunity, and the other isn’t.
The choice is obvious and clear.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:34 pm@389
Not really.
When facing a binary choice, I don’t have the luxury of asserting things are “okay” when the choices are Biden v. Trump.
My choice simply boils down who advances my preferred policies.
So, Imma pull the lever for Trump while vomiting at the same time.
Far from being “okay”, bud.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:35 pm> If the court does allow Colorado to kick of Trump from the ballot, THAT opens the floodgates for open retaliatory actions in red states.
Part of the issue here is that people who have bought the Trumpist narrative about J6 think that the “J6 was an insurrection” argument is thinly veiled partisan nonsense, so if *it’s* allowed, then any thinly veiled partisan nonsense they bring should clearly be allowed, too.
Meanwhile, for many of us on the left, the notion that J6 was anything *other* than an insurrection is an obvious partisan lie, so (a) not disallowing Trump is making an exception for him, and (b) the obvious thinly veiled partisan nonsense the Trumpists come up with appears to be a cynical attempt to abuse the system (which is exactly what conservatives think removing Trump from the ballot is).
There’s no answer to this which won’t seriously piss off one side or another, and there’s no answer which doesn’t make the partisan divide deeper and further destabilize the country.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:38 pmIt wasn’t on the merits; the SC lifted the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal’s injunction on an emergency appeal. But the effect will be the same, there is nothing to prevent the Border Patrol from removing the razor wire tomorrow.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:38 pmThose who have advocated that backing DeSantis would have blocked Trump are absolutely clueless about how bad a candidate he was, as demonstrated by his polling. The more voters got to know DeSantis, the less they liked him.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:41 pmWe can recover from bad policies, but not the “termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
norcal (ca03ee) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:48 pm@416
*cough*Obamacare*cough*
That’s some serious artistic license and projection.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:55 pmMonmouth University/Washington Post New Hampshire Primary Poll 1/22/24
Poll toplines and crosstabs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 3:08 pmYou say that like it’s a bad thing. 😉 /sarc
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 3:10 pmFlorida Tax Dollars at Work?:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/22/2024 @ 3:37 pmIf it’s not Noem (where I would put my money), then it’s someone who might help him in the swing states.
Bridget Ziegler would be perfect if she were not also a Florida resident.
nk (56d02a) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:18 pmNah you’re just a troll with no life, 50% chance you are DCSCA. Desantis is a fantastic candidate.
Dustin (28bfd7) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:19 pmThe more voters got to know DeSantis, the less they liked him.
Indeed, and his initial foray with Disney was a series of own goals.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:28 pmDustin,
Rip may be a troll, or DCSCA in drag, but he’s right about DeSantis. His act may work in Florida, but it wasn’t ready for prime time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:29 pmMelania is a NY resident; can’t she be VP?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:30 pmhttps://redstate.com/streiff/2024/01/22/republican-county-official-who-was-victim-of-political-arrest-by-democrats-wins-crushing-legal-victory-n2169049
Leftists continue to follow their ancestors in jailing their political opponents.
At least the judge slapped them doing severely.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:48 pmYou only say that because he’s a social conservative that actually fights back against leftist aggression and indoctrination.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 4:53 pmrickrolls don’t even go into moderation!?! They just delete?
Probably my fault.
Dustin (28bfd7) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:17 pmI saw a clip of a guy saying of Trump that “he could stand on the front steps of the White House and commit murder and I’m with him.”
https://twitter.com/RoxaneLGibson1/status/1749469185011228872
That has not happened, of course (yet), but if it did, I’m confident whembly would still pull the lever for Trump. But unlike the yokel in the clip, whembly would feel very very bad about it!
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:19 pmOr, at least, that’s what he would say.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:19 pmBiden breaks his oath and duty of President by allowing and encouraging an invasion on our borders. He deserves to be tried for treason. But carry on making it all about Trump being beyond the pale.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:20 pmOur country’s biggest problem at this point: people who would vote for Donald Trump.
They cannot be persuaded. They do not argue from principle that they would apply equally to their side as to their opponents. They simply have to be defeated. In the meantime, I plan to call them out as the menace they are. They have lost my respect.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:22 pmThis is how Trump supporters argue. It’s mindless partisan yammering. I’m sick of it.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:22 pm“He deserves to be tried for treason” — what a very stupid thing to say.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:23 pmI say that, by the way, as someone who is upset at what is happening at the border, and pissed off that I am going to have to vote again for the guy making it possible.
But I am going to have to, because obviously no rational person would vote for Trump. Only partisan robots will do that.
Much of our country has gone utterly insane. I do not intend to pretend otherwise.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:25 pmhttps://www.foxnews.com/us/string-retail-thefts-burglaries-migrants-plaguing-chicago-suburb-authorities
Just doing the crimes Americans won’t do.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:28 pmMaybe I’m just getting angry because nobody even tries to discuss this rationally, without acting like a partisan clown. I have not seen one argument for Trump in the last several months — and I mean not one — that takes seriously the idea that an argument should a) be based on actual facts and not made-up bullshit and b) be equally applicable to any political actor no matter whether there is an R or D by their names.
If any Trump supporter could argue that way, I might revise my scathing opinion of all of them. But I can’t find one. They’re all full of exaggerations and unsupported assumptions and arguments about Biden that they would never use against Trump even if the evidence were 100x what they have on Biden.
All of them. Including all the ones here who would vote Trump at this point in history. You are worthless partisan robots. I have nothing but the deepest contempt for you.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:32 pmTake all of the wailing about Hunter Biden profiteering off his dad’s name without the slightest fucking hint of concern about the way the Trump kids have done the same but far worse.
There are good-government types out there who violently criticize all of it. As do I.
Not the Trump drones. They are 100% full of partisan boring ignorant arguments that waste my time and insult my intelligence. Trash.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:34 pmI think I have vented my spleen enough for one evening. I just can’t believe we have another 11 months of this horseshit.
Patterico (b46039) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:34 pmTotally brilliant comment. Americans absolutely do not commit rampant retail theft. You hit the nail on the head, as Trump supporters always do!
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:36 pmPlease continue to grace my comments section with such wisdom. Please!
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:36 pmI wonder what the Venn diagram looks like when comparing Trump supporters to fans of professional wrestling. I would wager there is at least a 95% crossover.
norcal (3a9d58) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:50 pmIf I alienate 100 worthless partisan drones with my comments but hearten just one good-hearted rational person … I was going to say that’s a good trade-off, but on closer reflection it’s a win-win.
To the devil with all mindless partisan drones.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/22/2024 @ 5:58 pmhttps://www.dailywire.com/news/mega-study-finds-that-minorities-dont-receive-harsher-criminal-punishments-but-that-academics-said-so-anyway
Leftists will continue to lie and the truth will be ignored.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:03 pmI don’t even know why such people stay. Most Trump supporters have left, which pleases me. The blog is far less popular than it once was but has a far lower percentage of dummies, nastiness, and all the other negative traits that correlste so neatly with political support for the worst president we have ever had.
Why are the rest of you still here? I make the effort to love you as people as Jesus commanded, but I don’t respect your political arguments. If they are pro-Trump arguments they are certain to be full of spin and deliberate dodges of real argument. I despise such crap. Why are you here, then? Why not join your fellow partisan nut jobs at any of the numerous very popular Internet sewers that spew the waste products you fill your minds with?
Go.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:07 pmThe Daily Wire is a grifter site but even grifters are sometimes correct. I had seen that (at a more reputable outlet) and find it convincing.
But, you see, Rob, I hate lies no matter where they come from. You hate only lies from the left. That’s why your arguments are not persuasive to anyone not already drinking your Trump-flavored Kool-aid.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:12 pmI can’t take seriously a person who yammers about lies from the left and can’t manage to get upset about any lie from Trump. To me such people are clowns. Get out of here with your faux concern for truth. That attitude of concern is not serious. It’s an act.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:15 pmPatterico,
how about reading some of what I’ve wrote for the past several months. I pushed DeSantis as the best option repeatedly. You haven’t. Instead you just attack those who don’t walk in lock step to what you say about Trump.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:15 pmThere are actual serious people here who know things and have interesting perspectives. We recognize each other. How about you Trump supporters run off to the kiddie rooms (Daily Wire or pick your other sewer fringe right site) and let the adults talk.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:19 pmDeSantis is a fraud as evidenced by his bets pandering to Trump. Every GOP candidate is a fraud because you gave to be a Trump cult member or pretend to be one to succeed.
I am sorry your guy challenging the cult leader failed to dethrone the cult leader but that’s how cults work
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:22 pmAnyway I have never denounced someone’s support for DeSantis as a way to get rid of Trump. What I denounce is the patent double standards you will now employ rhetorically to justify an indefensible vote for Trump. That deserves and receives only my contempt.
Patterico (8d63ab) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:25 pmFalse. Walking in lockstep to what I say means voting for Biden. I don’t demand that of people in order to respect their views. But I do demand they not vote for Trump if they want me to respect their views. Or, they could mount the first-in-history honest 2024-era pro-Trump argument using no double standards or other lies or dodges to support their dumb pro-Trump position, which at this point in time I maintain is indefensible.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:28 pmMy initial plan was to vote for a DeSantis or Haley in the primary but as I saw them pledging to pardon Trump (Haley) and acting like the FBI and DOJ were unfairly prosecuting Trump (DeSantis) I realized there is no rule of law candidate, and decided not to bother. I still might have done it to stop Trump, who is manifestly worse, but the know-nothing GOP electorate will accept no substitutes for the most criminal candidate possible. The only option at this point is to outvote and deride the morons who would vote for this guy, and try to persuade the persuadables.
Patterico (6e52c3) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:34 pmWe can recover from bad policies,
*cough*Obamacare*cough*
whembly (5f7596) — 1/22/2024 @ 2:55 pm
Trump never offered a plan to replace Obamacare, and he won’t this time, either.
Besides, the “termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution” is worse than Obamacare.
norcal (3a9d58) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:34 pmPat, I’m not sure of the wisest course. Right now I plan to vote for Haley in the primary, and then in the general (if she wins the nomination).
However, if Trump wins the nomination, I will vote for Biden in the general. I’ve never voted for a Democrat for President, but this is an exigent situation.
A true Republican would never talk about terminating the Constitution. Therefore, Trump is a RINO.
norcal (3a9d58) — 1/22/2024 @ 6:45 pmPeggy Noonan on the state of the 2024 election:
After lamenting what is going on in NH, she reflects:
Then she looks at what is really going on, and speaks of the terrible, no good, zero-option world we face:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:21 pmHaley-Manchin for the win.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:22 pmNot any more. And his polling over the last six months proves he wasn’t.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:47 pmNot a problem-Trump could change his residence to Bedminster.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:51 pmThat’s an insult to professional wrestlers and their fans.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/22/2024 @ 7:58 pmExcept it’s not a binary choice, unless you’re in one of a handful of battleground states. Electoral college and all that. It would be a binary choice if the election were a national popular vote.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:04 pm@455, I was very much annoyed watching the news this evening. Again, it strikes me as bizarre that we may effectively be done voting…or even vetting a nominee….two months before his historic trial begins….and with maybe 3% of the vote actually cast. Maybe next time save on all the ballots and useless debates and just have the pollsters tell us who is President. I mean critical thought is pretty much dead anyways…just announce the winner so impeachment proceedings can get going.
I get that GOP voters are not wobbly and that they believe electing Trump will reduce inflation, fix their ED, and make their tomato garden flourish once again. Or in whembly’s analysis….stop freakin’ Joe Biden from destroying the country and…well there’s nothing worse than that….except maybe destroying the world. Biden = nuclear annihalation…I mean any idiot can see it.
But I still sense that most Republican real Americans don’t have much of a clue about what is going on. They don’t care about indictments because they truly don’t know much about them. Ignorance is bliss. Though they can describe Hunter’s privates in full detail if requested. There’s no sense that maybe a convicted felon being the chief law enforcement officer may not be a good idea. I guess the heart wants what the heart wants. The Supreme Court should be busy….self pardons…unilateral exits from NATO….and all the Executive Orders targeted at Trump’s detractors. What could go wrong?
Leadership is….you know….lying persistently, calling people ridiculous names, being factually confused, but being a real mensch…well as much as a billionaire can be a man of the people….while not actually having to touch them too much. Patt’s on a tear and I can’t blame him. The GOP is a dumpster fire. Zombie partisans clackety clack away. At least most wrestling fans know it’s fake….when will Republicans figure out Trump is a fake?
AJ_Liberty (79934d) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:15 pmI would still support Haley but I was getting close to NeverDeSantis, but it was alway hypothetical, given where Trump was polling.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:18 pmI won’t support Biden, for policy reasons, so this will be the 3rd presidential election in a row where I’ll protest vote, either Larry Hogan if he’s the No Labels candidate, or Mitch Daniels because WTF.
Here in WA State, the Democrat will win by a healthy two digits, so my vote is a throwaway regardless.
BTW, it’s good to hear you vent. This election cycle has been completely beyond frustrating, and not just from the GOP.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:19 pmI’m a single issue voter: judges. Trump will appoint judges who will buttress the Constitution, as he already has. Biden will continue to appoint judges who lay siege to it. These are appointments that will have significant impact for decades.
lloyd (510ccb) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:25 pmThe last time DeSantis was polling close to Trump was on February 27, 2023, when Trump was “only”’ 14 points ahead. When DeSantis announced his candidacy on May 24th he was already on a downward trajectory (-30 behind Trump). Six months ago he was -32. Nobody polls that low if they are popular.
Rip Murdock (2c80ed) — 1/22/2024 @ 8:49 pmLikud party says from the river to the sea is not genocide we have it in our charter. the nation, joy reid msDNC, vox, guardian. NH haley 6 trump 0 good so far.
asset (87352e) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:35 pm@458 I have been saying for some time the more you know desatan the less you like him. Trump is no charlie crist.
asset (87352e) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:40 pmMy initial plan was to vote for a DeSantis or Haley in the primary but as I saw them pledging to pardon Trump (Haley)
Haley needed the Trump voters. Cannot win the general election without them. Anyone who refuses to see that is just posturing, something I had quite enough of in my LP days. Practical politics says that you want Mr President Self-Interest to need to have you elected.
After that, you can find a reason to just commute to house arrest without media access.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:42 pmThe moment the GOP actually nominates a felon as its candidate, it’s the Dead Old Party, MAGA for short, and your grandchildren will learn of it only in their history classes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/22/2024 @ 10:45 pm@471 Really? More likely they will learn about the dead economic libertarian free trade conservatives who’s money could not buy them obedience to the rich and their reagonomics. Populists rethugliKKKans breed almost as fast as my side!
asset (87352e) — 1/22/2024 @ 11:03 pmHaley will need today (and in every subsequent primary) a polling error on the scale of “Dewey defeats Truman” in order to become the Republican presidential nominee. She will be number 2 in her 2-person race (be careful what you wish for.)
As I posted above, the Republican electorate wants “uncut Trumpism” and his voters will settle for nothing else. Haley’s tip toeing around Trumpism won’t get her the support of his voters or his Orangeness. They don’t like Haley for a number reasons, and Trump would never support someone who betrayed him.
It’s still all wishful thinking.
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:57 amThat should be almost exactly seven months from now (July 18, 2024.)
Rip Murdock (d353df) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:01 am“They don’t want limited government, free markets, and American leadership in the world. They want isolationism, an authoritarian crackpot president, and a big government that enforces their worldview”
Yeah, this is the awful reality. It’s truly an intellectual mish mash, like having your 6yr old go down the candy aisle and pick what’s for dinner.
There’s not even a hint of a coherent deficit-reduction strategy, except for the Kabuki theater going on in the House….which is some variant of the game of chicken…wrapped in indignation.
What’s the MAGA strategy on the international front? Walk away from NATO and S. Korea….and while praising Xi’s toughness, somehow be tough with China. Does isolationism mean we draw a line at Taiwan or do we lose interest like we did with offering an alternative to Obamacare…because it’s too hard? There’s little appreciation that what we do with Ukraine is a bright signal to China. MAGA seems content with being Putin’s b*tch.
We want a growing economy but MAGA is hesitant to trade with anyone…unless we win. The drawbridge must be pulled up apparently….and as China cultivates new markets, we wait for the perfect deal….which generally means protectionism, tariffs, and higher prices at home. Hardball with China somehow means putting tariffs on Canadian steel.
MAGA flirts with the idea of forceably instilling loyalists in the government, so we really bring home the corruption of Hungary. Government will be bigger as it will still be choosing winners and losers, just with MAGA’s ethically-strained standards. You see because once you pretend that enforcing the law is “political persecution”, there’s really no going back to anything stable and predictable. You win in Court if you’re powerful; you lose if you’re weak. The GOP is now schizophrenic about justice.
So, yeah, here we go. The GOP’s dream is to become Hungary. How aspirational! We want a tough guy who molests women and cheats at business. Character is thoroughly transactional. For me, no thanks….I’ll go drink a beer with Paul Ryan, Mitch Daniel, Liz Cheney, and Mitt Romney (a coke)….and wait for all this to crumble down. This GOP is being built on a morally-shakey edifice. As we add more floors, it just means the collapse will be more spectacular. Even if you hold your nose, you’re still marching into a collapsing mess. You own it….
AJ_Liberty (79934d) — 1/23/2024 @ 3:34 amBack in 2015, I thought that a casino owner and his store-bought Soviet bloc chorus girl of a third wife should not be allowed within a mile of the White House. It was beneath the dignity of the Office, beneath the dignity of America.
Everything else since then has only been embellishment of my original opinion. Not affirmation. Not justification. Just illustration. None of it could have happened and I would still feel the same. Sh!t is sh!t, it does not get sh!ttier.
nk (451348) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:46 amPolicies? I’ll tell you where I’ve got your policies. I’ve got your policies right here:
Elect a President who does that, and you will be proud of him, proud of your country, and proud of yourself. Reserve your pet peeves for get-togethers with your buddies after you have found a better-paying job.
nk (a26def) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:43 am@426
Wow… is this how we going to devolve the discussion? Ok…
I mean, allegedly of course, you will do everything you can to defeat the Orange Julius while ignoring the absolutely human tragedy on the border whereby ol’ Scranton Joe’s policies makes it easier for cartels and other scums to rape their way past the border, allowing cartels to facilitate modern slavery and push opioid poisons into the US that has cause incalculable American deaths and misery.
But, hey, #OrangeManBad justifies any and all means to defeat him. You are all damn the torpedos! with nary a thought of existing norms and precedent.
And you say I’m the civic disaster?
Nay my good host… I suggest you pick up a mirror and ponder why you feel like you have to fabricate absolute bs to send a “dig” my way.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:56 am@432
And you’ve lost mine.
I have my principles. You just don’t like it.
I will equally call out anyone who votes for Democrats, or works to allow them to come into power as the menace ya’ll are.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:00 am@435
You’re not upset enough Pat then… and you voting for Biden makes you culpable.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:01 am@461
It’s absolutely a binary choice, as there’s only ever going to be two person who has a chance to win.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:17 amYes.
Yes, yes, either because I am voting for a Democrat or because you as a Trump drone are obligated to return every insult with an equal one. It’s in the Trump drone charter.
If I have lost your respect, what are you still doing here?
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:17 am@465
Another reason why I’m #NeverDemocrat.
Is this “principled” enough for you Pat?
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:18 amThe rest is blah blah blah partisan droning. So boring and predictable.
“[insert Dem candidate l] is the worst ever because of the talking points I have been given. I blow up every Biden gaffe or error and excuse someone trying to steal an election. I am smart.”
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:20 amNope. You’re pretending to care about a constitutional order but you don’t. If you did, you would never vote for a guy who tried to steal an election.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:22 am@483
Agree to disagree. 😉
That’s unfortunate too.
Correct.
That’s insipid. Do better.
Because the community here and all of the hosts, yes you too, provide interesting dialogues?
Neither of us need each other’s respect to justify who we’re voting for.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:23 amAll the hair on fire catastrophizing Trumpy drones do about every Dem—
HE’S A TRAITOR HE’S TRYING TO DESTROY THE COUNTRY
—is how I actually feel about people who would vote for someone who tried to steal an election. They’re not legally traitors, or course. I would never say something stupid like they should be prosecuted for treason. I leave that kind of stupid talk to the NJRobs of the world.
But supporting someone who tried to steal an election makes you morally treasonous in my eyes.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:27 amIt is not a position I can ever respect. Take your rationalizations and go.
There are no “interesting dialogues” with a Trump drone.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:28 amLet’s all go debate Scientology with a Scientologist!
Or … maybe not. Instead, let’s mock their cult. Because cults.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:29 amThe only reason the analogy is not apt is Scientology poses no threat of taking the presidency.
Yet. Put a wisecracking Scientologist who don’t take no shit from nobody in front of the GOP electorate and they’d pick him once Trump’s dead. Every cult needs a cult leader.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:31 amBy the way I voted for the Democrat last time too, drone. So I guess I lost your respect four years ago but you didn’t notice.
Btw I don’t feel this strongly about folks who voted Trump last time. He had not tried to steal en election yet.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:33 amThose people made a mistake but if they correct it now they are not drones. You are a drone, whembly. NJRob is a drone. Any Trump voter at this point is a partisan drone.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:34 amSome may also be very nice people. Still: civic disasters
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:35 amThe usual BS rationalizing just doesn’t cut it this time.
Patterico (4e2b5f) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:37 am@486
Oh step off the high horse Patrick.
If you care about protecting the constitutional order, you wouldn’t vote for someone who’d nominate a Supreme Court Justice who will not define a woman or any of the progressive trash picks in lower courts.
If you care about the constitutional order, you wouldn’t vote for someone who has routinely overstepped his constitutional powers during the Covid lockdown tyranny.
If you care about the constitutional order, you wouldn’t vote for someone who tried to forgive student loan debt, in a naked partisan ploy to drum up votes during the midterm.
No my good sir. If you vote for Biden, you don’t care about the constitution order.
Your animus towards Trump has taken hyperbole past 11.
And people why “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is a thing.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:38 am@485
How very mature of you.
Good job trying to convince me otherwise.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:42 am:golf clap:
@489
It’s interesting that you are unwilling to meet at the table to understand why someone would vote for Trump.
Shame.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:45 am@495
And you remain unconvincing.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:48 amPresident Joe Biden’s deputies have let 6.2 million illegal migrants into the United States, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).They estimate another 3.3 million illegals this year.
Overwhelming the system to collapse the nation. But voting for the orange haired buffoon is worse.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:53 amAuthor laments that we’ve lowered our standard to voting for Biden v. Orange Julius, but does a great encapsulation why Biden is such a disaster.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/how-democrats-exploit-democracy-is-at-stake/
In before Pat jumps in… I’ve criticized Trump and his orbit during his Presidency.
You handwaving the issues that the Biden Administration are perpetuating now makes your declaration that I’m a civic disaster or drone…. impotent.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:03 amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik&t=6s
Well, and I thought *I* was being pissy. It is terrible to see an institution that I favored for many years fall into such disrepute. It is more terrible to see that American politics has collapsed into two fascist parties.
I know that Pat sees the Democrats as the better choice, or maybe just the less-terrible, but I see them no less bad. The fact that they oppose Trump does not win them any awards — they’d oppose Romney just as strongly. In fact, their current standard bearer accused Romney of wanting to bring back slavery in 2012. To me that forever disqualifies him on any moral stage — his opposition to Trump is merely the posture of a partisan hack.
Biden is merely the Elsie Stefanik of the Democrat Party — an opportunist with no more principles than a snake.
Trump’s J6 activities do not influence my vote, and apparently don’t influence the vote of his supporters. My objections to Trump are not much different than they were the last two elections — he’s an ignorant lout, a man-child, and a greedy fool. I had hoped that the people who joined his administration would be able to salvage things, but he got rid of them all because they weren’t properly obsequious. After that he was only useful for nominating from the Federalist Society’s judge list, something I doubt he’ll do going forward.
I will vote for the most likely candidate who isn’t R or D, and failing that I will vote for Mickey.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:05 amNJRob, voting for Trump is worse, but not because he is a buffoon. Because he tried to steal an election.
But the problem you identify here is a real one. It’s not enough to vote for someone who tried to get installed in office when the other guy won.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:06 amPresident Joe Biden’s deputies have let 6.2 million illegal migrants into the United States, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).They estimate another 3.3 million illegals this year.
To be fair, they are all here “legally.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:09 amDemocracy is at stake. We need not do any of the bad things Geraghty mentions. We need only refuse to vote for the guy who tried to steal the election.
If all these other issues make a person queasy about actually going whole hog and voting for Biden, that’s a position I can understand even though I plan to do otherwise.
Voting for a guy who tried to steal an election, I cannot understand or respect. I view such a vote as partisanship gone wild.
Just saying “LOOK AT THESE BAD THINGS” is not an adult argument.
You have to either say:
1. Trump did not try to steal the election — in which case you’re hopelessly ignorant or irrational
Or
2. OK Trump tried to steal the election but this other thing matters more
In which case you are a civic disaster with your priorities way the hell out of whack.
Those are the choices. Choosing wrongs should carry a stigma.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:18 amNJRob, voting for Trump is worse, but not because he is a buffoon. Because he tried to steal an election.
This isn’t my reason, and frankly Pat, it’s not really yours.
You didn’t vote for Trump in 2020 either and he hadn’t screwed with the election yet. I cannot see how, absent the EV hijack attempt, you would suddenly vote for him this year. It may be the most important reason, but it’s not a necessary one. The man was already dangerously unqualified.
I could be wrong of course, I guess that Biden could be terrible enough that someone could decide to vote for a Trump that had not tried to hijack the Electoral College or terrorize Congress, even though they had never done so in the past. But it’s not the way to bet.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:18 am“No, YOU should carry the stigma” — Mr. “Adds to the Conversation” whembly
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:19 amYou misunderstand, Kevin.
Trump trying to steal the election is not the only reason I am not voting for him. It is just the reason why I cannot possibly respect the decision of a citizen to vote for him at this point.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:21 amIt is there, for the most obvious reason why he is worse than Biden, although there are, of course, many others.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:22 amwhembly, NJRob, a simple question:
Did Trump try to steal the 2020 election?
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:25 amOf course a second Trump administration would at least be interesting. In a Chinese-curse kind of way.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:25 amWWII was super interesting
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:28 amI like boring
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:29 amThe goal of conservatives is to keep politics dull and retiring. See, for example, Calvin Coolidge. Yes, we want our politicians to rise to an occasion, but we want this to be a rare event.
Appalled (c8e607) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:32 amTrump tried to use legal maneuvering to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
I also remember people in 2016 demanding that electors not vote for Trump to overturn the election after he won..
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:37 amSee, you can’t even acknowledge that.
Patterico (b0e006) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:42 amBiden is within the Overton Window of a Democrat politician. If he does an Executive Order to extend rent forgiveness, it’s because more of his base are renters with low incomes. The same for tuition forgiveness, though both are examples of bad practical policies that were suspect in terms of their constitutional legitimacy. But we can take him to court and test that. The same with Trump with his original Muslim ban.
The problem becomes when a President actually stresses the safeguards of the system. One could argue that Biden is doing this with immigration, but it’s not especially convincing. Yes, border enforcement is broke and it requires a significant investment of money, tools, and people. Biden has let it fester and is only now looking for deals. An election year is an awful time to get something done. He earns very low marks. It is a costly lesson in inaction and lack of initiative. In a normal election cycle, coupled with inflation, it’s enough to cause you to lose. But it’s not stressing the political system. Congress can still pass laws and fund action.
Trump stresses our system more profoundly. He argues for near complete immunity, even from actions that go over the line. He wants to fire attorneys prosecuting him. He wants to pack government with loyalists, ala Hungary. He aggressively threatens public servants like Mark Milley. His supporters regularly threaten Trump detractors, where congressmen were intimidated against voting for his impeachment and conviction. His threat is institutional. It’s norm busting. We find more and more politicians aping Trump’s dangerous rhetoric. We find more and more excusing what not too long ago was inexcusable. Border policy has always been contentious with what should be the line for compassionate treatment. This has been the battle for 30 years. It’s new that we are arguing how criminal a President can behave before the justice system can act. It’s new that we are testing how close to insurrection a Presidential candidate can get.
In my state, my vote for President is irrelevant. But I am more and more persuaded that margin is another way to object to the direction of the GOP. Writing in Ryan or Daniel may need to take the backseat to a bigger statement. I’m not all the way there yet for voting for Biden…I still want to see what Feb-Mar-Apr brings, but it’s not off the table.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:00 am@507
Ah, but you’re not looking for a conversation.
Your retorts amounts to “but Trump tried to steal an election!” as if that’s anywhere remote accurate description.
Challenging contested elections in politics is American as apple pie.
The fact that you use that as a rallying cry that nothing else matters.
And yet, you claim that I’m a drone?
Pick up a mirror Patrick.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:34 amThis is a microcosm of the Brave New World in which we sadly abide.
Both RNC and DNC are horrific. Period.
I detest Biden, and I have felt so for decades. But DJT is more of a threat…based on his own words and his own actions.
And let’s be clear: he could have been a leader. But he chose to be this person.
I just wish I had a time machine to show people in the past what is happening now.
Again, the question for every voter is: what do you believe in, and why?
Bonus question: if a bad person does a good thing, does it make the good thing bad? And if a good person does a bad thing, does it make the bad thing good?
I feel you, Patterico.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:35 amCharles C.W. Cooke:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:35 am@510
Not in the manner in your framing.
He did try to take it to courts – which he got deservedly bench slapped.
He did try to “twist arms politically” to have Pence reject the electoral slate under a cockamamine legal theory. Which Pence refused to participate.
He did try to encourage the GA Sec of State to “find me votes”… but if you knew the whole context, it was under the theory that there was widespread fraud that would’ve shifted the counts. Not a directive to “stuff the ballots with dead people” or the likes. Which Raffenberger refused to engage.
He did this under all the strange voting shenanigans that Trump and the GOPers were caught flat footed and couldn’t properly counter.
Were some of these of dubious nature and shouldn’t even be brought up in the first place?
Of course!
But here’s the thing you have to acknowledge Patrick… our system of governance is robust enough and has enough guardrails in place to prevent Trump and ANYONE ELSE from engage in these sort of things.
Yes we were tested, but you have to acknowledge that the system worked.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:43 amOur system of government requires compromise, whembly. That is something Trump and his voters hate and why they want to overturn our system of government, especially the 2020 election results. That is why supporting Trump now is an act of civic disaster.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:52 amThe system only worked because a few important Americans defied Donald Trump. If Trump is re-elected, his goal will be to make sure that doesn’t happen again. Putting the government in his hands is foolhardy.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:55 amDRJ,
where is the compromise supposed to happen? Explain please? Compromise with who?
NJRob (0af446) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:05 amThe problem becomes when a President actually stresses the safeguards of the system. One could argue that Biden is doing this with immigration, but it’s not especially convincing.
Perhaps where you are it isn’t. Go to Los Angeles and see the shantytowns of the homeless. Go to Texas and see what an influx of millions of poor displaced people does to your infrastructure. Go to New York and see what a tiny fraction of the influx does to the richest city on Earth.
There are other ways to stress a political system other than a frontal attack.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:18 amYour retorts amounts to “but Trump tried to steal an election!” as if that’s anywhere remote accurate description.
Challenging contested elections in politics is American as apple pie.
He attempted to corrupt the Electoral College with false slates, so that he could then point to the corrupted Electoral College and push the election to the House. That is NOT “challenging contested elections”, that is something else entirely.
At best it is “gaming the system” but more reasonably it’s an attempted steal.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:22 amCharles C.W. Cooke
The Democrats view Donald Trump as the embodiment of what they’ve viewed every Republican to be since, oh, Thomas Dewey. They think every Republican is Hitler, and complain every time that the voters are “fooled.”
It’s no surprise that they want to run against “the quiet part out loud” as they see it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:31 am“Challenging contested elections in politics is American as apple pie.”
Going to court with evidence of fraud or requesting a recount is American, setting a mob over to the Capitol to disrupt a vote and using a preposterous interpretation of the Electoral Count Act to change the vote is not American
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:34 am“Perhaps where you are it isn’t.”
But that presumes that Biden is purposefully doing something to create the situation. The current system is overwhelmed. Doesn’t Congress write the laws and fund the current system? How is the current crisis any less Congress’ fault? If you don’t have enough money to fund more asylum judges, more interdiction officers, and more resources to hold people, then how do the House Republicans get off here?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:38 am> At best it is “gaming the system” but more reasonably it’s an attempted steal.
And the majority of Republicans don’t care or (worse) think it was *right to do it*.
aphrael (81e74e) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:22 am@528 The system is overwhelmed because Biden stopped Remain in Mexico and implemented catch-and-release on day one. This was Biden’s decision and Congress had nothing to do with it. Biden has tools at his disposal for stemming the tide. He doesn’t need to rely on Congress for anything. He simply doesn’t want to use those tools. Increased funding will go towards processing and getting more migrants in, not for enforcement and interdiction. A conservative wouldn’t be making excuses for this president.
lloyd (01fd56) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:24 am@529 Trump saw how lawfare was waged against him and, in typical Trump fashion, responded in kind and took it up a notch. The solution is to quit waging lawfare, rather than expect Trump and Republicans to just lay back and enjoy it.
lloyd (c94e5d) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:32 amA conservative would also not make excuses for someone with 91 felony counts. A leader should avoid even the appearance of criminal wrongdoing. Trump ensured his actions went over the line. A conservative has two awful choices. One is within the Overton Window; one is not. I’ve generally written in a conservative.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:36 amTrump appointed Gorsuch. Biden appointed Jackson. That’s all I need to know.
lloyd (01fd56) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:36 am@533
I call bull caca.
Biden is so far outside of the Overton Window, he’s the animating reason why I’m #NeverDemocrat.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:46 am@534
Trump didn’t know what he was doing, but recognized that he can get alot of “love” by following the Federalist’s list of potential jurist.
Biden, on the otherhand is purposely slinging horrible progressive Judges.
To give ya’ll an idea why voting for a GOP President, the court will probably neuter/overturn the Chevron doctrine in this term.
Conservatives should acknowledge that none of this wouldn’t have had happened, if it wasn’t a Republican President.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:49 am@504
That’s insane my dude!
Roughly 3 years of the Biden administration’s open border policy was let in the equivalent of all residents in Missouri or Maryland.
Do any of you people realize how bad this is?
But, sure, vote for Biden because #OrangeManBad.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:02 pmHow is Biden outside the Overton Window for a conventional Democrat?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:04 pmFellas,
Let’s just not talk about Trump. It makes me angry and I end up lashing out in a way that does not make me feel good about myself.
I honestly no longer see any value in discussing anything about Trump with people who would support him at this point. To see people engage in partisan handwaving always annoys me. To see them engage in partisan handwaving over a president corruptly trying to stay in office after losing an election makes me apoplectic.
I’m a believer in Socrates’s method of conducting respectful discussion, but it requires honest interlocutors, and people who support Trump at this point are, at a minimum, not being honest with themselves (or are just so pig-ignorant that they don’t even understand what he tried to do). It enrages me to think of decent people shrugging off such a catastrophically dangerous scenario.
I despise your opinions, your support for this moral monster, and your casual treatment of someone trying to take power illegitimately. (And yes, yes, you despise my intent to vote for the evil nasty Democrats. We’ll stipulate that so you don’t have to say it again.) I don’t want to despise you as people. And I don’t want to let my anger make me behave badly.
So if you’re going to vote for Trump, let’s just drop Trump as a topic. Tell me how your families are or something.
Patterico (1b49fe) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:09 pmYou are not making this easy.
Patterico (1b49fe) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:11 pm@540
What? Labeling me as a “civic disaster” or “drone” for voting for Trump rather than Biden is tots kosher?
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:17 pmWhat do the adults here think about the utility of keeping people who fill the comments section with dishonest, poorly thought out Trumpist propaganda. The adults here know who they are. I’d really like to know what you think.
What I think is, the casual dismissal of the foundations of our democracy disqualifies someone from the privilege of me paying for them to spout that sort of country-destroying talk.
But I will listen to any contrary views from the adults.
Patterico (5b60da) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:20 pm@539
My eldest son is still kicking arse at college while engaging in the usual shenanigan’s in his fraternity. Also, he popped the question to his girlfriend and she sad YES! So, a wedding is in the offering this summer.
My youngest son is a senior who’s currently doing “tech school” basically spending 2 hours in school in the morning, and then working as a framing carpenter well on his way into that union.
How’s your fam?
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:21 pm@542
It’s your website.
You don’t like me, by all means ban my account/IP.
I have no rights here.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:24 pmIt’s an honest statement of how I view your beliefs. But this is not about politeness but the ability to make honest statements of other people’s views. You are not capable of doing that as your moronic hashtag shows.
The question I am weighing is whether this adds value here. I’m leaning no.
Patterico (5b60da) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:24 pmIt’s not about not liking *you*, whembly. You seem to be well-intentioned.
It’s just that the stuff you say is mindnumbingly partisan, which is bad enough, but the casual dismissal of an effort to steal an election, I just cannot countenance.
Patterico (5b60da) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:28 pmI truly believe there is literally nothing Donald Trump could d, Including murder or raping a baby, that you and NJRob would not try to handwave away.
I find that creepy.
Patterico (5b60da) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:31 pmRIP CBS journalist Charles Osgood(91).
Rip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:31 pmAnd yes, that is designed to be a provocative statement, and yes, I know it will result in no self-reflection as to why an intelligent person would say that about you but rather result in some dopey tit for tat “you too” comment.
It’s not intended as an insult but a cry of frustration.
I am trying to convey how utterly distressed I am at how people I have “known” virtually for years can be so casual about something I think is so important. Namely: the guy we vote in, gets to take office, and people who take part in an effort to get the wrong person in power are morally (if not legally) traitors.
I believe there is a wave of mental illness spreading through the country and you are caught up in it.
Anyway, I am taking the invitation to ban you under advisement, for my own sanity if no other reason.
Patterico (5b60da) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:37 pmThe adults can try to talk me out of it if they wish.
@547
You couldn’t be more wrong Patrick and I’d be first in line to press the woodchipper ‘on’ while you feed Trump feet first.
@549
By all means. This is your house.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:49 pmThat’s insane my dude!
It is. I wonder why the MSM isn’t running stories about what the mass influx is doing to the quality of life in Texas. At best, they’ll run stories about how Texas allows people to “slip through the safety net.” Maybe someone can find me an LA Times story about how Texas is getting hammered.
But I doubt it. Texas is trying to export the pain to progressive places, and has succeeded in NY to the point that Biden might use federal power to keep these parolees in Texas (a “remain in Texas” policy).
I think that Texas ought to start imposing taxes on products mostly made elsewhere in the USA in order to fund immigrant services. So long as it is equally applicable to products made in Texas (if any) it would be constitutional. If possible, foreign imports could remain untaxed. I know that some will call this a tariff, but it technically is not, it’s just a sin tax intended to help out those poor starving Central Americans.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:59 pmBiden is so far outside of the Overton Window, he’s the animating reason why I’m #NeverDemocrat.
Biden is no more than a standard deviation off the mean. His party OTOH is further out.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:01 pmI honestly no longer see any value in discussing anything about Trump
Full stop. In days of old, Usenet decided that certain topic were so worthless for discussion that they created the “talk” category. “talk.abortion” and “talk.gun-control” were two prime examples..
I think that “Trump” is very similar. Perhaps “Trump” needs to go in the nannyfilter.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:07 pmQuality of life issues would be better for all involved. I avoid talking personal life because it seems some here use it to attack others or find out more about them.
But I will see I’m getting married to my love and she and I are planning on having our family. But first I need to figure out where the honeymoon will be.
NJRob (2cf300) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:12 pmWell, congratulation, NJRob! Now that is something good to hear!
Patterico (fb4f7c) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:16 pmI wish I could believe that/ but coming from someone who shrugs off his attempts to nullify the vote of the entire nation, I don’t. As the base rallied around him and he denied it, you’d defend him. Absolutely you would.
You might even say killing and rapin babies is as American as apple pie.
Patterico (5b60da) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:21 pmI have no problem with two 80 year old corrupt senile old fools because I am voting third party! You can not make a case for either of these bozos. The lesser of two evils? which one? Are you one of trump’s “good germans?” or a tool of the corporate establishment deep state. I was told in 2016 by democrat party see what you have done voting for Jill Stein! Yes and I will do it again if you throw more crap against the wall and see if it sticks and tell me to vote for it! Trump is more tactically dangerous ;but biden is more strategically dangerous as he keeps the left from taking over the democrat party.
asset (c64ea4) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:24 pmThere are reasons, however, for supporting Trump.
The best one I can think of (does not move me, but…) is the working-class American whose manufacturing/tradesman/retail job has disappeared to China or whose payscale has been undercut by desperate immigrant competitors working for bargain-hunting employers.
The economic devastation that the twin policies of massive US investment in Chinese manufacturing, the import of formerly domestic goods, and the displacement of labor due to openish borders for two or three decades before 2016 cause great pain. Economic and family demographics among working age white Americans were noticeably impacted, with 20% drops in things like “married” and “in the workforce.” In a democracy, those people have every right to organize for redress and economic theories be damned. Neither Marx or Von Mises can stand up to inflamed public opinion.
And there was Trump, alone, saying “I will fix this” while everyone else droned on about free trade and how well the stock market was doing.
The problem with Trumpism is mostly Trump. The xenophobia, ignorance and magical thinking was always there and hardly confined to MAGA. But Trump, the reckless, ignorant, venal, intemperate man-child transcends mere issues and politics. The world will be a noticeably better place when he dies.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:25 pmWhat do the adults here think about the utility of keeping people who fill the comments section with dishonest, poorly thought out Trumpist propaganda. The adults here know who they are. I’d really like to know what you think.
Of those that are here, well, I don’t debate a few of them, but to the degree that they are issues focused (e.g. on the border situation) and arguing that Biden offers no solution (which is pretty obvious) I have no problem. If they were going on about how 1000 Mules stole the election, well, that WOULD be an issue. But they aren’t.
p.s. No one stole the election; Trump THREW it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:31 pmPatterico,
I think, honestly, that some value the forms of democracy and Republican government far less than getting certain things accomplished. I’m not sure what whembly’s calculation actually would be if he faced the question of unlawful immigration vs the end of the consititution. He just doesn’t believe the threat is that dire, and I don’t see talking him out of that. I suspect NJRob does not believe in that formulation as well. (Whembly has been explicit about this. NJRob posts about other things, so I don’t know)
Sometimes, you just can’t convince people.
I don’t see how you ban Trump from the conversation. How we deal with him over the next year is probably the most important topic of the year. I also find that people whose views seem out of line bring in interesting arguments from out of the wild. It’s best not to be totally in the bubble, even if the bubble solely consists of the wise and the just.
Appalled (96c60c) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:32 pm@556
You disgust me Patrick.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:35 pmI believe there is a wave of mental illness spreading through the country and you are caught up in it.
I for one, find some things the Left would do (e.g. confiscatory taxes) to be as bad as trying to steal an election, and I also find that the whole National Popular Vote Compact to BE election theft. But somehow that is mainstream.
There is a lot of mental illness. I think though that it is more widespread, both in time and political direction, than you do. The universities do not seem to be a bastion* of mental health, for example.
———-
* For Klink:
bastion: an institution, place, or person strongly defending or upholding particular principles, attitudes, or activities.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:39 pmI would argue against banning whembly, as his position is not pro-Trump, but anti-Democrat. Enemy of my enemy stuff.
I disagree strongly with NJRob and find little point in debating him, but again, I value contrary positions. At times, I might learn something. Maybe.
There’s a more recent fella that doesn’t seem to offer much, but he doesn’t rise to the point of obnoxiousness that would — were it my call, which it is not — suggest a ban.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:45 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:53 pmExcept arguments backed by facts, which sometimes seem to be in short supply.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:55 pm#562
Are you suggesting we take a poll on what we think of the newer fella?
Appalled (c8e607) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:57 pmDidn’t DeSantis say something similar after Iowa?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 1:57 pmExcept arguments backed by facts, which sometimes seem to be in short supply.
I am not even considering you in this discussion. You annoy the F out of me, but that’s mostly on ME.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:00 pmDidn’t DeSantis say something similar after Iowa?
It will depend on how badly she loses, of course. DeSantis had no path going forward. Haley still has one, even after NH, as long as it’s close.
Mainly this: Something could happen to Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:02 pmAre you suggesting we take a poll on what we think of the newer fella?
The guy to the Trump side of NJRob
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:03 pmDefinitely not me. I’ve never promoted Trump’s policies; the fact that the polls I posted consistently showed him in the lead since before February 2023 only reflected the desires of Republican voters, who are proving my point right now. I refuse to engage in “what ifs” or political fantasies.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:10 pmNot having an imagination allows one to confront reality and engaging in false hopes.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:12 pm@553, Hawaii is always a good choice if it’s in the budget and you want a destination wedding. Lots of outdoors things to then do.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:50 pmIf Haley can run on low-funding, she should stick and be the emergency candidate. It’s unknowable where Trump’s trial may go. She might not be MAGA’s pick as successor….but of the king goes down, MAGA will break apart. I see no natural successor…in the political realm with the requisite mojo.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:55 pmIt’s not impossible that Trump has had a stroke of some kind. He’s having real problems speaking.
If Trump has to drop out, the question will be “who can win?” Haley might have to adopt some trade policies that she’d rather not, at least in the platform, but she’s clearly a better campaigner than DeSantis. Although I’d expect a fight from DeSantis and maybe Mini-Me.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 2:59 pmAlso, with all the threat-to-the-Republic, fascist Putin-stooge talk, I’d think his Secret Service folks have their heads on a swivel. Someone is going to get the “Moral Duty” nudge.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 3:01 pmIf people here that still support Trump want us to believe there are things Trump could do that would make them stop supporting him, what are they?
Obviously they don’t object to his treatment of women, his vacillating policy views, his misunderstanding of the Constitution and the law, his Old Testament-based religion, or his affection for aithoritarianism.
Where is the dividing line?
PS to NJRob — Part of compromise is understanding other points of view, even if you disagree, or finding common ground when you can. At this point, too many voters see no validity or reason for any policy or parts of policies advocated by their “opponents.” That always ends in stalemates or worse. Maybe both sides want that but it is not how our government was designed.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/23/2024 @ 3:54 pmI should have added his refusal to concede an election he lost, instead engaging in fraud and incitement. To some, this was just Trump trying to manipulate the process but he went far beyond legal manuevering.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/23/2024 @ 3:59 pmMy one area of support for Trump’s actions is that he used the judicial nomination process to appoint pro life judges, ultimately overturning Roe v Wade. That is how government should work. I doubt he would be that patient again.
In 2016, Trump said things I liked on immigration but he had no clue how to implement his ideas through an existing government process. And clearly now he has no desire to follow government process for anything. He wants what he wants, no matter how he gets it.
That is dangerous for now and the future. Our system is based on checks and balances. Trump wants those gone.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:07 pmIf the convention decides to Dump Trump (an unlikely possibility) they can pick anyone else to be the nominee-it doesn’t have to be a current or former candidate.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:07 pmDana (bacf72) — 1/20/2024 @ 12:52 pm
Generally assumed, but not by the Führer, although this was not realized or known to others, and not even understood now by most.
Hitler had peculiar ideas about health in addition to all his other things. That’s why he was a vegetarian. He was a health nut. That’s why he started World War II then in 1939. He thought nobody was good, or he maybe that he couldn’t enjoy his possible victory, after the age of 56,
so he started in 1939 even though the odds didn’t look so good. He hesitated a few days after receiving a warning from Great Britain.
This was all based on the fact that Charles V, Holy Roman emperor, King of Spain, Archduke of Austria, and Lord of the Netherlands abdicated at the age of 56.
(Now when someone’s life expectancy really gets low they always expect to live in good health a number of years longer. Then something hits them suddenly. So we don’t see someone in his 70s starting a program of world conquest because he thinks he can always wait a few years more longer to prepare.
With the possible exception of Tamerlane. And Putin – but Putin is careful. And he started with Ukraine 10 years ago.
So also is Ayatollah Khamenei careful. And Xi Jinping. Maybe.)
Putin thinking his days are numbered could incentivize him to try invading the Baltic states or Moldova and Romania – unless he gets sick first.
It’s Putin thinking he has time that will cause him to wait.
And he has the example of Biden and Trump to cheer him on. Biden is almost a full ten years older than Putin. (And Biden remembers Strom Thurmond and how long he stayed active, and if that’s a bad example there’s always Warren Buffett.)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:08 pmI’m thinking deconstructing the Supreme Court will do more damage to the republic than Jan6
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:20 pmEverything you wrote could easily be applied to Biden.
You didn’t explain how to compromise with the other side that refuses to do so. Do you see any compromise coming from those that want abortion up to and including delivery in the birth canal? Any compromise from those that want to indoctrinate children into thinking boys can be girls and vice versa? Any compromise on the invasion on the border?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:29 pmHow about packing the Supreme Court?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:31 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 12:59 pm
Because it isn’t doing anything to the quality of life in Texas. It doesn’t have a big welfare state so it’s not even affecting the budget.
They run this:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-01-23/texas-border-migrants-biden-greg-abbott
Now if the effect was so bad would the mayor of San Antonio say it’s not a big problem?
No it’s not. It’s trying to create pain and trying to maximize the effect so that (he says) Democratic politicians should join him in his call to stop illegal immigration etc.
No, New York City and New Jersey have taken care of the problem. Mayor Eric Adams signed an executive order threatening to confiscate buses that deliver people to be put on public assistance unexpectedly, and then Governor Abbotts started sending them instead to New Jersey train stations and then New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy put a similar order in place – and all the buses stopped coming except that MAGA propagandists are trying to say they are still coming in busloads and we have Curtis Sliwa chasing down rumors of where they are being put in New Jersey.
Governor Abbott doesn’t want to challenge this in court evidently because he wants to claim similar power for Texas, or the bus companies don’t want litigation.
Yes they could put a sales tax on some goods. Who do you think would be paying that tax?
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:33 pmIf the convention decides to Dump Trump (an unlikely possibility) they can pick anyone else to be the nominee-it doesn’t have to be a current or former candidate.
No, but the only other person with delegates will be Haley. Not that that guarantees anything. Lincoln only had 22% of delegates on the first round in 1860. It turned out that Seward was not inevitable.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:33 pmYes they could put a sales tax on some goods. Who do you think would be paying that tax?
If alternative goods are exempt, then only the sellers suffer. Perhaps they put a tax on electric cars or other things Real Texans won’t buy anyway.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:38 pmNo, but the only other person with delegates will be Haley. Not that that guarantees anything. …..
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:33 pm
Having a minority of delegates only guarantees that Haley ends up on the losing side of votes. If a convention majority decides to nominate Marjorie Taylor Green, Haley wouldn’t be able to do anything about.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:40 pmThe NEw York Post rana column about another way disqualifying rump from the primary ballot in Colorado would be futile. They could even require delegates to vote for whom they pledged (not enforceable anyway)
Vivek and DeSantis remain on the ballot. Any delegates elected on their behalf would be released. Trump could say vote for one of them.
https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/opinion/democrats-want-to-subvert-the-supreme-court-in-their-war-against-donald-trump
And in the general election:
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:40 pmReformatted:
Having a minority of delegates only guarantees that Haley ends up on the losing side of votes. If a convention majority decides to nominate Marjorie Taylor Greene, Haley wouldn’t be able to do anything about.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:41 pmI’m thinking deconstructing the Supreme Court will do more damage to the republic than Jan6
My attitude toward court-packing is this: it’s been at 9 for 160 years. It’s now set there by common law.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:41 pmIf a convention majority decides to nominate Marjorie Taylor Greene, Haley wouldn’t be able to do anything about.
Such consensus decisions are rare. It could just as well go the way the Democrat Convention of 1920 went. Or the GOP one, for that matter.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:43 pmLawrence Lessig says there is way Democrats could steal the election (if Trump carried a crucial blue state)
Require the Trump electors to vote for Biden
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/22/opinion/election-president-steal-democracy.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:44 pmDid you know that if you control about 30% of a company’s stock it is very rare you don’t win every vote?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:44 pmRequire the Trump electors to vote for Biden
It’s called the “National Popular Vote Compact”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:45 pmIt’s called the “National Popular Vote Compact”
And really, how would you reconcile a popular vote election with some states kicking Trump off the ballot?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:46 pmWhich has absolutely nothing to do with a political convention run by majority vote.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:48 pm> But I will see I’m getting married to my love and she and I are planning on having our family.
Congratulations, that’s fantastic news! I wish you both all of the happiness you can experience, and I hope that raising a family is something fulfilling and overall wonderful for you both.
aphrael (81e74e) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:56 pm> You couldn’t be more wrong Patrick and I’d be first in line to press the woodchipper ‘on’ while you feed Trump feet first.
Part of the reason, I suspect, that Pat is having trouble believing you — and why I am having trouble believing you — is that Trump’s behavior vis-a-vis the 2020 election is already so far beyond the level of what is acceptable (and is actively dangerous to the Republic) that your unwillingness to turn on Trump *now* makes it very difficult to see the circumstances in which you *would*.
aphrael (81e74e) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:57 pmThe NYT calls it for Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:02 pmRequire the Trump electors to vote for Biden
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:45 pm
No, that changes which electors are chosen.
Lessig says that can’t be done after Election Day, But astate cold order one set of electors to vote for the candidate for president of the slate of electors which lost, and even do so after the election. At least until the Supreme Court clears up the language of its ruling in a faithless electors case..
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:17 pmOr, after California awards its 169 votes to Trump, I predict that someone stands up and moves that Trump be nominated by acclimation.
And seriously, you expect Haley to win 30% of the convention delegates? She’ll be out of the race by the time of the Florida primary. 🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:19 pmNo, it’s set by the Judiciary Act of 1869 (155 years).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:25 pmLessig says
Lawrence Lessig is a liberal hack. He couldn’t even win the copyright extension case. It was a natural a takings case, in Scalia’s court, but Lessig couldn’t bring himself to argue it as a takings case, or appeal to Scalia’s vote. Instead he had a convoluted first amendment word-salad argument that didn’t even impress the liberals.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:28 pmYup. But you see he thinks Trump was just “[c]hallenging contested elections in politics” which of course “is American as apple pie.”
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:30 pmGood to hear all that. Maybe grandchildren are in the offing!
Mine is well.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:31 pmNo, it’s set by the Judiciary Act of 1869 (155 years).
I assume you aren’t just quibbling about “160 years.” I can see the Court not allowing a packing scheme, citing the need for stability, separation of powers, and the long time the law has been in effect. The tit for tat horror stories write themselves.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:32 pmA good question and one I have not seen answered.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:34 pmIf the Judiciary Act of 1869 is amended by Congress to increase the Court’s membership I cannot see how the Supreme Court could overturn it. In fact, Congress has changed the number of seats on the Court six times, from a low of five to a high of 10. The nine seats are not sacrosanct. It’s just that it’s been that way for a long time.
Also, who would have standing to challenge an increase in the number of Justices?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:50 pmThere’s no way the GOP elite would pick Desantis. You are safe.
However, this nonsense that Desantis is some terrible campaigner is just echoing what a lot of pundits tried to wish into existence. He clearly campaigned quite well. Even today, his discussion of Trump’s performance is insightful, clear, and persuassive. Despite a massive amount, around $40 million, in attack ads, much from Haley in a state she wasn’t even competing in, Desantis beat Haley. He was unable to beat the quasi-incumbent presidential candidate who shares a lot of the same populist ideology. He had no realistic path unless Trump fans realized what Trump is. That is a shame, and I realize a lot of folks here cannot condone Desantis for his lack of courage on the issue of the 2020 election. Fair enough.
But here was your chance, nevertrumpers. A conservative who knows what he’s doing, who is never going to try to steal an election or be a dictator, who served honorably and was an effective governor. Who, unlike most politicians, isn’t enriching himself or his family.
Like I said above, I am not some huge Desantis fan. He is a politician and none of them deserve loyalty.
But here was your chance. Haley is the Trump administration, only wingmaning Trump like vivek was. Even today, Desantis is much more effectively criticizing Trump than she, a candidate for leader of the free world, is.
I note Paul regurgitated the talking point that Desantis was ‘kissing the ring’ so soon after criticizing Trump. That is simply not the case. The fact that so many Trump critics believe so much nonsense about the alternative to Trump is unfortunate.
I say here was your chance, but I didn’t get to vote. Almost none of us (perhaps actually none of us) got a primary vote. Desantis screwed us out of that vote, probably to save his career. That’s the main problem I have with him. Conservatives needed a choice. The Iowa caucus was called very early, in a way that was intended to suppress turnout in bad weather, and that was literally all the choice the party got. But it’s not my party. Y’all pick whoever you want to run when Trump goes to prison. I am not interested.
Dustin (28bfd7) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:59 pm@599
Because I believe Democratic policies these days, including progressive judges are far more dangerous than when Trump his election contests.
The former is has been and will be happening that affect all of our lives.
The latter is relegated to certain impotent infamy.
But at least I’m not putting outrageous words in other people’s mouth, like saying killing and rapin babies.
whembly (8b27dd) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:04 pmIf he told them that the Ghost Dance does not make them bulletproof?
Trump’s cult believes. And the idea that their Tutelary will ever do anything that will shake their faith in him is as unthinkable as … well … that he will ever do anything that will shake their faith in him.
nk (7021ce) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:09 pmI never put words in your mouth. I stated my opinion about what you would defend, as long as Trump denied it and the party rallied behind him. The answer is: literally anything anyone could imagine. As long as Trump denied it and the party rallied behind him.
The bit about American as apple pie, you will no doubt recall from your ridiculous equation of Trump’s corrupt attempts to steal the election with mere contests to elections.
“If people here that still support Trump want us to believe there are things Trump could do that would make them stop supporting him, what are they?”
It’s a good question. But I wouldn’t believe any answer you gave. Because whatever it is, if Trump actually did it, you would still support him.
As long as Trump denied it and the party rallied behind him.
One way to refute my accusation would be to point to a past instance of misconduct by a GOP stalwart, who denied the accusation and had the party rally behind him, yet you, whembly, took on the party and said no! I am convinced by the evidence, not by what everyone who shares my political outlook says!
Since you cannot cite such an instance and will not try, I’m left with my opinion. You’d defend literally anything. And I mean anything.
As long as Trump denied it and the party rallied behind him.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:14 pmHowever, this nonsense that Desantis is some terrible campaigner is just echoing what a lot of pundits tried to wish into existence.
It’s based on polling numbers dropping from 30+ to single digits. His debate performance was cringe-worthy. His battle with Disney was lose-lose, giving many people different reasons for disliking him. He was, in a word, mean.
Haley wasn’t perfect by any means. She did not have to promise to pardon Trump. She could have hedged that a bit, talking about how it would depend, and that she didn’t think ex-presidents should be jailed. A flat-out pardon promise was a mistake.
Her campaign roll-out was understated and slow. Maybe that’s just the way she rolls — and a non-bombastic candidate has its attractions — but it left her out of the news for months.
Still, of the available candidates only Haley and Christie had my attention, and Christie’s full-bore attack on Mr Big doomed him from the start. I’ve said many times that I value practical politics, and Christie wasn’t practical. He probably didn’t care.
Going forward we have Trump or Nikki or Door Number Three. Only one of those isn’t a Zonk.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:16 pmwhembly,
Weren’t you the one defending Trump against claims that he wanted total immunity by saying his attorneys argued extremes to make a point?
I guess you think that is ok for Trump people to do but not ok for Trump opponents.
DRJ (268439) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:18 pmScooter Libby was guilty, by the way. I said so at the time.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:19 pmI just re-registered as a Republican in California to keep my options open for voting for Haley.
She’s a weather vane and spineless. But she ain’t Trump, and she understands the importance of Ukraine.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:20 pmHaley is the Trump administration, only wingmaning Trump like vivek was.
That sentence is insulting to everyone in it. Haley was UN Ambassador, which is a specialized role. It’s not policy (mostly) and it’s not in the WH. Name something she did that was outre. Even something that was at the behest of Trump, although most of her 2 years she worked under Tillerson who was not a Trumpie.
Believe it or not, those who served Trump initially deserve your respect. They took a crappy job under a crappy president because SOMEONE had to mind the store. Imagine if he had had his yes-men from the beginning.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:23 pmShe’s a weather vane and spineless
Defend that without using the T-word.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:24 pmWe can put it to a test right here and now.
This question is only for people who are confident Donald Trump supporters:
Will you still support Donald Trump if he comes out and says that the migrants (that’s what he calls them) at the Southern border are human beings just like our ancestors who came to America to make a better life for themselves and their posterity, and we should take them into our country and into a hearts, help them assimilate, and give them a path to citizenship for themselves and their families?
nk (7021ce) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:26 pm> I just re-registered as a Republican in California to keep my options open for voting for Haley.
I’ve been considering reregistering as a Republican so i can vote not-Trump in the primary.
aphrael (81e74e) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:28 pmNk,
my ancestors didn’t break the law to come here. They didn’t spit on the nation and lie about who they were. They didn’t steal identities and trash where they’ve gone. They, to this day, follow the law.
If Trump tried to pass amnesty for criminal aliens, he’d be as much scum as the rest of the RINO class trying to destroy our borders.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:34 pmIn fact, Congress has changed the number of seats on the Court six times, from a low of five to a high of 10.
Fact check: Mostly untrue, requires context.
#1 & 2:
In 1801, the outgoing Federalists decreased the size from 6 to 5, to prevent the new president (Jefferson) from nominating a justice. In 1802, the new Congress changed it back. No justice was removed or added as a result.
#3 & 4:
The Court size was set as the number of circuits, with each justice holding court annually in each district of his circuit. When the number of circuits increased, in 1807 one justice and 1837, two justices were added as well. bringing the number to 9. Only this latter act could be called court-packing, as it was aimed at adding justices from slave-holding states.
#5, 6 & 7:
During the Civil War, Congress wanted to ensure that the Court would stay pro-Union, so it added a 10th seat, which was never filled. After the war, to prevent the terrible no-good Southern sympathizer Andrew Johnson from filling a seat, they reduced the seats to 7 in 1867. In 1869, with Grant’s election, the number was increase to 9. Again, no justices was added or removed during these wartime actions.
So, sure, it’s been changed, but not for a very long time, and only once did it have any real effect. There are lots of things they did back then that we don’t do any more. For example, we don’t impeach judges because we don’t like their rulings.
https://sutherlandinstitute.org/congress-history-of-messing-with-supreme-court-size/
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:39 pmI just re-registered as a Republican in California to keep my options open for voting for Haley.
I have remained registered as a Republican because I wanted to vote against Trump as frequently as possible.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:41 pmMy sentiments exactly, Patterico. The even worse part is how Trump has bamboozled evangelicals. Good God.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:43 pmAdam Schiff is running for Senate CA and I believe part of his platform is packing the Supreme Court
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:43 pmmy ancestors didn’t break the law to come here.
Mine may have. Don’t know if they were bonded to the land in Ireland. As far as getting here, the borders were open, even if you were Catholic. Of course, if you were starving or got sick, oh well. And no Irish need apply. The ancestors I’m aware of both worked building the Union Pacific — alongside freedmen and Chinese — and settled in San Francisco.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:46 pmnk
I think Trump has already said something like that when he was rambling on about how he was going to build this big wall with a big beautiful gate where they are going to serve taco bowls that are great but not as good as the ones at Trump Towers which are the best ever, anywhere, and particularly on Cinco de Mayo
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:47 pmBS. There was nothing legal about Trump’s Fake Elector scheme, or strong-arming a state SecState to reverse an electoral result. This is the kind of denial and dishonesty that is one of the major problems with the Trump right wing.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:49 pmThank you, NJRob.
nk (7addf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:50 pmSchiff
“We need to expand the court and rebalance it,” Schiff said. “Otherwise, we’re going to have an entire generation of Americans that live with a reactionary partisan court, which is what the current court is. Expanding the court, I think, is important to restoring balance and restoring our rights…”
And taking away others
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:51 pmScooter Libby was guilty, by the way. I said so at the time.
Perhaps. Judith Miller recanted.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:52 pmhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2024/01/federal-judge-rules-dei-crt-trainings-and-policies-can-violate-federal-law/
Meanwhile in our centers of mass indoctrination they are teaching racism and hate for white people based on their skin color.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:55 pmDear Adam Schiff:
I suggest “Impeach Roberts” signs, as that worked so well in the 1960s with the wildly liberal Warren Court.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 6:56 pm“Will you still support Donald Trump if he comes out and says that the migrants (that’s what he calls them) at the Southern border are human beings just like our ancestors who came to America to make a better life for themselves and their posterity, and we should take them into our country and into a hearts, help them assimilate, and give them a path to citizenship for themselves and their families?”
Well, There has got to be 20 million already assimilated to varying degrees in the US now and rooting them out and deporting them all isn’t going to happen, so lets deport all convicted violent felons. Maybe toss anyone convicted of gross abuse of public services too.
But to your question, since I do not think it is possible to deport 20 million people here illegally some deal will need to be struck, and that deal is best made when in control of House and Senate, and even then it will be a giant mess. But a deal needs to be made. The deal will be a dogs breakfast by the time it gets through House and Senate even Trump were to hold the Senate and House, so I couldn’t really blame Trup.
If the question is regarding the people at the border now, I expect Trump to go back to what worked for him before… pay Mexico to do it in Mexico, or something similar. Anything with a touch of executive authority to it is better than what Biden is doing now. I’d be unhappy if Trump said and did exactly this, but not all of it:
” the migrants (that’s what he calls them) at the Southern border are human beings just like our ancestors who came to America to make a better life for themselves and their posterity” I agree and it would not bother me if he said it. But an immigrant gangster or grifters idea of “a better life” isn’t for us to give and I expect Trump to say that. It’ll sound racist and hateful to some, but those “some” are always going to hear things that way so ignore them..
“we should take them into our country and into a hearts, help them assimilate, and give them a path to citizenship for themselves and their families” I’d say this should be for the people who are doing immigration by the rules, using the legal process. Order means it can’t be a first come first served, gate crashing allowed basis. Everybody that follows the rules isn’t a peach, but I would expect a Trump administration to try to do at least marginally better than Biden is now or I’d be upset.
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:25 pmIt’s not a “talking point”, Dustin, it’s what happened.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:32 pmHaley may very well do the same down the road, but I hope she doesn’t. There’s enough of an increase of confused and incoherent comments from Trump recently that the GOP could use a fallback if this trend continues, and that’s not even getting to the point where he could be a convicted felon before Election Day.
She’s not a perfect candidate, but I think she has a better shot at beating Biden than Trump does, primarily because Trump will turn off too many independents, and there are more independents in this country than Republicans or Democrats.
@541 Patterico, regarding allowing the Trumpy propaganda—
These posts have helped me recognize irrational arguments, partisan tainted opinions, and irrational biases. I hope you keep allowing their opinions.
Chris (3d25b0) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:37 pmThe main lesson learned from the Scooter Libby conviction is never talk to the feds.
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:39 pmSpeaking bamboozling evangelicals, I’ve never seen Trump kneel in prayer (or hear him declare that Christ is his Personal Lord and Savior, therefore, this picture of a six-fingered Trump kneeling in prayer is a fake.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:44 pmTo those who ask what about just telling the truth, if they come to me about something like the “Secret Agent Plame Affair”, I’m not dignifying the inquiry with truth beyond observing “this is bullshit”
steveg (215bf8) — 1/23/2024 @ 7:50 pmWhen the frontrunner says incoherent sh-t like this…
…is why Ms. Haley needs to stay in the race, in case the mental unraveling continues or gets worse.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/23/2024 @ 8:30 pmIn other words Trump knew what he was talking about:
The frightening thing about this election is: if Trump wins, it will be a chaotic hell for four years while democracy takes a massive hit. And if he loses, we are going to be dragged through a chaotic and likely dangerous hell as he challenges the election results. It’s a lose- lose in my book.
Dana (8e902f) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:46 pmI see two often-invoked justifications for supporting Trump in the general elections.
1) “Biden has bad, lefty policies. Those are more dangerous than Trump trying to steal an election, or calling for the termination of the Constitution.”
We can survive bad policies, and correct them down the road. The UK, New Zealand, and Sweden all used to be more socialist than they are now. Britain used to be called “the sick man of Europe”. Remember the confiscatory tax rates in Britain that caused problems for both the Stones and the Beatles? Those don’t exist anymore.
We can’t survive torching the Constitution, or Congress being so afraid of Trump’s goons that they will rubber-stamp anything Trump proposes. Mitt Romney stood up to Trump, and then started paying 5K per day for security to protect his family. How many in Congress are that brave and/or have the money to hire personal security?
2) Trump will appoint good Supreme Court Justices.
During his presidency, Trump deferred to the Federalist Society, and nominated good judges. However, I doubt that will be the case the next time. The Justices he appointed overruled him on some things, including his attempts to steal the election. I predict that in a second term he will nominate judges who are personally loyal to him, and not to the Constitution (which Trump wants to terminate anyway). Then he will sic his mob on Republicans in the Senate (who won’t stand up to him like Romney did) to ensure that the nominee is confirmed to the Supreme Court.
This is not like elections in the past, when it was simply a matter of liberal versus conservative ideology. Trump has brought bigger considerations into the calculation.
norcal (333e6b) — 1/23/2024 @ 9:52 pmWhen does a conservative become a liberal civil liberty. When he gets arrested and incarcerated.
asset (8eedb4) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:03 pm@558 I disagree. A case can be made that the election was stolen from trump by the republican party passing ballot access laws to prevent the libertarian party from getting on the ballot which democrat party used to kick the green party off the ballot in 2020. Look at the vote margin differences in 2020 az and wi. and jill stein’s vote in 2016 in those states. Tonight on msDNC they mentioned their fear that jill stein and green party could do it again as green party is on ballot in those states in 2024.
asset (8eedb4) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:18 pmWhat is the outcome of the primaries. 50% of republicans support trump who voted. In Iowa 50% of haley’s voters and 20% of desatan voters said the won’t vote for trump. In NH again 50% of haley voters say they wont wont for trump and these are republican leaning independents. (fox news) (cnn) (msDNC) tonight on broadcast. Third partys will get many disgruntled democrats and republicans like 2016.
asset (8eedb4) — 1/23/2024 @ 10:49 pmPaul, I am deep into Tim Alberta’s latest book. It’s part of the reason I am in such a bad mood all the time. I’m serious.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:20 pmI gotta just keep reminding myself that a lot of people are just irrational, ignorant, and/or not that bright. (I’m not perfect myself, but at least I can look myself in the mirror and say I will never be a Trump voter. So I got that going for me. Which is nice.)
I can’t change their irrationality, ignorance, or stupidity. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
I can change who comments here. But then I see stuff like this:
I probably will. I’d probably like all of these people in real life. I don’t hate you guys. I hate what our country has become, though, and the sort of arguments Chris describes in this quote are actually the reason it has become that way. You’re not blameless. You’re just doing and saying what you think is right. And it’s helping people like Chris identify trashy garbage argumentation, so it even serves a purpose, even as it causes our country to degenerate.
Patterico (b0145e) — 1/23/2024 @ 11:35 pm@647 most trumpsters are populists not traditional conservatives that reagan invited into the party in 1980 at philadelphia mississippi. Evangelicals like to be bamboozled. Like jimmy baaker, jimmy swaggart, orel roberts or this latest paster who told his church god wants them to buy him a bigger personal jet! (who’s name escapes me) As for irrational or ignorant well thats what one makes of it. Sartre said It is the height of irrationality to deal with an irrational world as though it was rational. Many of trump’s supporters say he hates the same people I hate. As for election deniers most don’t or can’t say how the election was stolen or give silly or false reasons. On numerous posts I have pointed out that trump did not win the 2020 because of ballot access perfidy by republicans against the libertarian party that democrats used to prevent disgusted voters from voting green party in 2020. I had to right in the complete names of both candidates to count. Over 1200 of us managed to get our right in votes counted in az in 2020. Point out irrational and ignorant arguments and let them try and defend them. Socrates and voltaire had to drink poison for doing that ;but this is 2024. Dr. Sameul Johnson explained america’s problem best when asked by Boswell what he thought of the american revolution going on at the same time. “I observe those who scream the loudest about freedom and liberty are the slave holding southerners! Those who yell the loudest about freedom and liberty for me not thee especially if you want to have an abortion. In missouri the freedom and liberty loving republicans are in emergency session to raise the initiative from 50% to 66% to stop abortion rights from passing to thwart the voters.
asset (8eedb4) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:25 amAnybody else think that Pete Buttigieg has founded a trend in Presidential administrations and Trump has promised to make Tim Scott his Secretary of Transportation:
nk (3ba5b1) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:24 amI agree with norcal 642. Great comment.
I don’t read much anymore but I also agree with Chris’ point about banning commenters.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:28 amNk, the SecTrans (npi) used to be the token opposite party post, Mineta and La Hood have held it in this century under Bush and Obama respectively. Technically, Tim Scott would be my boss.
Steveg, I’d be a cheap date for whatever Trump would have cooking immigration wise if Stephen Miller fell off of the Washington Monument.
urbanleftbehind (cd65e9) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:42 am@615
I don’t believe he, nor any President should have “total immunity”.
Even his lawyers argued in DC Circuit court that he does not, only that impeachment/conviction by Congress would be needed to open that avenue for further legal exposure.
That concept isn’t unique… the courts recognize the concept of Quality Immunity:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity
So one good thing about this case, is now SCOTUS will need to weigh in if/how QI is applied to Presidents and if Congress’ Impeachment powers (rather than Courts) should be the one to determine Presidential QI, or some other Constitutional Immunity Doctrine, during his tenure.
Take Trump out of the equation for a sec. What immunity should Biden/Obama have during their tenure?
-Biden was POTUS when US military murdered innocent people in response to attacks during the Afghanistan withdrawal. These were Americans on foreign land, so what currently protects POTUS and is that right?
-On the other hand, the ACLU sued Obama for a drone assassination that targeted an American who was deemed a terrorist (and an American kid). American asset was used to kill an American citizens w/o due process. Does Obama enjoy some sort of immunity of criminal/civil litigations?
So whatever you think of Trump, ensure that whatever criterion you use to “prosecute” Trump vis-à-vis presidential immunity, apply it to past/future presidents to see if it still works.
And, yes, I would condemn Trump had he done that outrageous scenario where he ordered Seal Team to assassinate his political opponents. I’m not going to sit there and be like “as long as Trump denied it and the party rallied behind him.”
whembly (5f7596) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:54 amI heartily endorse these messages:
whembly (5f7596) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:56 amBiden in last night’s speech:
Great job America.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:03 amAccording to the RCP polling average as far back as July 2022 (when Trump was +34 over DeSantis), he was never ahead of Trump, let alone by 30 points. The closest DeSantis polled against Trump was Trump +13 in January 2023.
Rip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:03 amOh, I believe you would sort of condemn him. But you would still vote for him over a Democrat.
Patterico (127b94) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:14 amThe highest point DeSantis polled was at 30% in January 2023. It was all downhill from there.
Rip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:14 amAnd even as you condemned him, you’d tell us about the past assassinations ordered by past presidents. Sure, not usually against political opponents but against other world leaders or even our own citizens via drone strike. Extrajudicial killings are as American as apple pie! This particular assassination will make it extra nauseating to pull the lever for Trump but imma gonna do it because #NeverDemocrat: and you people who will vote for the Democrat disgust me. What about the border?
Patterico (7e54d1) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:20 amPatterico #656: that, precisely, is the crux of this scourging of our collective souls. What do we believe in, and why?
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:22 amThe courts have found that Presidents have broad authority to conduct military and foreign affairs under the Constitution. Such was the case of Al-Aulaqi v. Panetta, which the ACLU didn’t bother to appeal the district court’s dismissal as they had no chance of winning.
The American “victims” of the drone strike were in the company of Al-Qa’ida terrorists. They should have chosen better friends. And the father shouldn’t have put his son in danger.
Rip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:25 am@657
First off, no I wouldn’t.
Secondly, he’d be impeached/removed in short order, and THEN the courts will drop the hammer on him.
@659
There you go again, putting words in my mouth to distort my positions.
Please, if you can, take off your Prosecutor’s hat off and stop trying to convict me.
You’re talking about a purely fictional hypothetical that adds nothing.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:25 amProblem is that Trump outrageous hypotheticals have away of becoming reality, Whembly.
Right now you are likely to vote for a convicted felon on Election Day. Did your 2016 self ever contemplate that possibility? Would you have resented it if someone had raised that hypothetical with you?
Appalled (c63c38) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:33 am@662, whembly is a hyperpartisan, like NJRob. Whatever hypothetical you can imagine, they can easily imagine worse with Biden or any other Democrat. He’s a true believer. Any damage that Trump could cause is always correctible; whereas every damage from Biden is existential and will destroy the country. whembly knows Trump is flawed, he just can’t ever imagine that a Republican could be the more dangerous choice. Trying to convince him otherwise seems to be a waste. He’s not alone as millions of people are lining up to vote for Trump. Until Trump breaks something these people care about, he is worth the baggage come November. Even from prison (no, Trump would likely not be jailed if convicted), Trump is whembly’s means to an end. I think Patterico previously called this broken by partisanship.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:06 amWould you vote for her over Biden?
NJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:09 amAdding “hyper” to the word like it’s supposed to make it more extreme. Like the leftist media does when they attach “far right” to any Republican who doesn’t attack other Republicans, but never call the socialists in their own party far left.
NJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:11 amConsidering Biden is actually flooding the nation with people to try and change America into a more socialist nation, I’d say my concerns are well founded.
Considering the Supreme Court told Biden his vote buying scheme to college students was illegal and he continued to do it anyway I’d say my concerns are well founded.
Considering Biden is demanding Israel stand down and give in to the murderous savages attacking them I’d say my concerns are well founded.
NJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:14 am@665
I would be ecstatic if Haley somehow pulls this off.
But, yes, I’m interested in those who would nominally vote Democrats, would instead vote for Haley.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:27 amNJRob, you need to punctuate 666 by saying, so yes, I’ll proudly support the fella found civilly liable for sexual assault and defamation. I will gladly vote for the man who showed the poor judgment of sitting for 187 minutes as the Capitol was sieged and Ashli Babbitt died in service to his cause. The same man who showed the poor judgment of playing hide and seek with classified documents for reasons that seem to only make sense to him. The same man who suggested ingesting disinfectant to beat Covid. The same man who felt it was OK to try and leverage US military support to get a political hit on his chief rival. The same man who had the wonderful judgment to try and strong arm secretaries of state to “find” votes. The same man who thought it was OK to try and pay off a porn star to keep a “perfect” affair quiet. The same man who continues to lie about the 2020 election results because he just can’t break Kayfabe. The same man who couldn’t get a wall built or have Mexico pay for it. Yes, you’ll vote for him…because you’re broken by partisanship.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:31 amThe former Allahpundit wrote this today about abortion:
Understanding the other side is the key to running our government. Republicans say Democrats have never understood their position and vice versa.
That may be true, but as a conservative I care more about Republicans. Trump Republicans don’t even want to understand other positions, and are proud of being that way.
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:36 amAs A J Liberty said so well, Trump voters are broken by partisanship. And it is no excuse to say that Democrats were partisan first. That is how children think.
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:39 amAt this point I prefer Haley to Biden.
She’s much closer to my policy preferences and more personally capable.
She worked for Trump but spoke up when she believed his behavior was wrong. She wasn’t a critic by any stretch but AFAIK she’s not an election denier.
Basically I’m ok with Haley in a way I’m not with Trump
Time123 (aa300f) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:45 amIn case anyone is interested in why I’m not real impressed (in a positive way) with the feds anymore
“Nothing about the crimes of conviction was of defendants’ own making,” wrote US District Judge Colleen McMahon in a fiery opinion on Friday.
“The FBI invented the conspiracy; identified the targets; manufactured the ordnance; federalised what would otherwise have been a state crime by driving three of the four men into Connecticut… and picked the day for the ‘mission’.”
She described the FBI’s informant, Shahed Hussain, as “most unsavoury” and “a villain”, arguing that “the real lead conspirator was the United States”.
steveg (ca38d2) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:09 amSummarizing the CBS News New Hampshire primary exit poll, Trump won:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:23 amRip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:03 am
Pretty sure you misread what I wrote.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:23 amTrump’s win in New Hampshire is the first time a Republican non-incumbent has won both Iowa and NH in the same primary season.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:26 amI did. 😒
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:27 amsteveg,
You’ll appreciate this then:
Appeals court finds FBI did violate rights of some Beverly Hills safe-deposit box holders
In a number of cases, items found in boxes not named in the search warrant were used to start prosecutions, or led to further investigations that resulted in prosecutions. It is likely that all these cases will be thrown out on 4th Amendment grounds. There are also a number of box-holders still seeking the return of their assets, which were seized without charges, on the supposition that anyone who used a private vault that advertised secrecy must be a criminal.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:31 amRip,
I agree it looks grim for Nikki, and her only path now is “last woman standing” should Trump’s legal problems, ballot access, health or general electability prove a problem. Although there is the argument that if Trump dies in prison they will still nominate him.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:36 amDoña Quixote
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 9:49 amThe MSM and the Democrats (birm) want the GOP contest to be over as they really think they will beat Trump like a rented mule. Bill Clinton’s gift keeps on giving.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:00 amOutside of health issues, I don’t see Trump not being nominated. His legal problems are in limbo, since the appeals court hasn’t ruled on his immunity argument in the election interference case. He can take up to 90 days to request an en banc hearing if the court decides against him; and then appeals to the Supreme Court will take time too. The Espionage Act case is bogged down in motion hearings.
I would be shocked (as almost everyone else would be) if the Supreme Court rejects his appeal in the Colorado case.
The Republican electorate clearly doesn’t see electability as a problem.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:01 amDoña Quixote
Perhaps, but Trump cannot sustain his activity much longer, it’s beginning to tell. Haley can do this all day. She’d be doing the world a service if a continued campaign resulted in Trump having a health crisis.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:04 amThe Republican electorate clearly doesn’t see electability as a problem.
1) If he’s leading in the polls, it’s a sign of his greatness
2) If he’s trailing, the polls are Deep State lies.
But I expect Biden to open a double-digit lead before April. It’s his race to lose, Trump cannot gain voters otherwise.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:07 amThe only thing that could get me to think Trump might win would be for our host to say something like “You know, maybe Trump isn’t so bad.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:08 am“Haley is a weathervane”
That is one way to see her.
I hope she is being flexible. I’m concerned about how that works out under pressure but am willing to try Haley over Trump or Biden.
If you have time, can you give short descriptions of weathervane behavior?
Some on the right say she’s changed on abortion, and she has
steveg (ca38d2) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:14 amThat flexibility probably officially comes from this from Haley: “I believe in freedom. I believe in making sure that people can live the way they want to live, and I believe the government needs to stay out of the way”
but it also is a position appealing to the middle, so it could either be a “freedom” issue or pandering. I think abortion is a “genie is out of the bottle” freedom we are stuck with
I think abortion is a “genie is out of the bottle” freedom we are stuck with
Every living American woman between 15 and 90-something has had abortion legally available at some point during her child-bearing years. They may not have sought it, or even liked the idea, but it was an option that is suddenly not there.
If elections turn on the 10-20% in the center, this is a HUGE block to casually piss off.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:27 amI disagree; both want Haley to continue running as it generates news, controversy, and viewers. By staying in she provokes Trump to make more and more outrageous statements (no doubt to the Democrats benefit.) The only people who want Haley out is the Republican establishment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:28 amI don’t, at least that early in the campaign; possibly after the conventions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:30 amHaley may stay in the race until Super Tuesday, consistently coming in second in a two-person race, but at some point her Americans for Prosperity Action and other super PACs will stop throwing good money after bad.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:42 amLink for post 689.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:44 amThe man sharing the MSNBC perspective complaining about partisanship.
NJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:56 am“Trump’s win in New Hampshire is the first time a Republican non-incumbent has won both Iowa and NH in the same primary season.”
When did an incumbent President NOT win both?
This seems to over-inflate Trump’s accomplishment. Carter, a weak incumbent, beat Ted Kennedy by 59-31 in Iowa and then 47-37 in New Hampshire. An incumbent has a built-in advantage of name recognition and selective memory about how good things were under his watch.
Also, Trump “winning” suggests some sort of superior performance. The truth is anything but that. He didn’t debate, in part because he would likely incriminate himself when confronted with his baggage. His campaign trail appearances generally consist of him flying in and rambling on about his persecution and how unfair everything is. He invariably mixes something up like going on about Haley being in charge of Capitol security, what city he’s in, and how he’s campaigning against Barak Obama. Now he integrates in weird praise of Viktor Orban and critiques of our democracy by Putin….trying to win over the authoritarian vote.
It’s not true that he makes such persuasive policy or character arguments…or conversely that Haley’s arguments just aren’t tuned right….we can generalize Christie’s lament… too many GOP voters just don’t care. Trump owns the souls of these voters. Sure they qualify things about his rough edges and social media posts…but it’s almost obligatory to note those aren’t right. If you don’t care that your nominee is under several criminal indictments….there’s something wrong with you. Those voters have lost the plot. Whether it’s judgment or severe narcissism…or character defect, it’s a problem that people don’t care about blatant lying and cheating….to the point of criminality.
It’s a popularity contest…like a beauty queen…except for orange toads. Haley just isn’t toad enough. In the long run, that will be seen as a good thing….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:57 amTrump isn’t the incumbent.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:02 amThis can’t be good.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:02 am@693, Trump falls into a unique category of past incumbent. Somehow suggesting that being an ex-President has no meaning in interpreting current polls is more than a bit misleading. Trump is a de facto incumbent in all meaningful sense: he has a Presidential record, name recognition, political class support, and political apparatus support. His loss in 2020 was narrow and with unique pandemic circumstances…arguable. Almost 2/3 of the GOP believe that 2020 was somehow stolen. No other primary in modern history has had facts like that hanging over it. Analysis that ignores that while pumping his margins is sadly deceptive….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:33 amA distinction without a difference. His “superior performance” in Iowa and New Hampshire was receiving the most votes, which is the only thing that counts.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 12:56 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:00 pmIt’s the only thing that counts if he wins the general. Otherwise it only shows up as a sad footnote and an indictment of the electorate. Criminals should not be nominated; criminals should not be elected. I refuse to applaud a serial liar, cheat, and misogynist. You could do what you want with your accolades.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:03 pmI agree, but I have absolutely no accolades for Trump, I was merely mentioning a interesting factoid.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:06 pmIt certainly is an indictment of the electorate, and who should we blame for that? Candidates that didn’t seriously challenge Trump until it was too late.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:12 pmPresidents defeated for re-election usually lose control of their party’s national committee. That didn’t happen with Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:28 pmhttps://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1750174054835683717?
Watching this would help the political class understand why they are delusional about their beliefs and which is why it will also be ignored.
NJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:28 pmNJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:14 am
Not quite, but he does have differences and impossible requests.
He wants a “reformed PA” to govern Gaza after a victory while Israel vetoes that.
He wants a “path”” to a Palestinian state created, (bot a state now as Hamas is demanding in order to release the hostages) while Israel can’t accept a Palestinian state that is not demilitarized and under Israeli military supervision.
He wants every square inch of Gaza to be under Arab authority while Israel wants a buffer zone, or at least is talking about it.
He wants to slow down the destruction – Israel half agrees,
Israel is arguing most with the EU.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:37 pm595. Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 4:46 pm
It depends on the exact wording of the law, and court decisions (and state courts may decide differently in different states while agreeing on the same vote facts)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:40 pm@701
The electorate is to blame.
Either by not participating in the Primaries or General Election.
We all truly deserves who we vote for…
whembly (5f7596) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:50 pmIf a candidate can only win on the first ballot, then narrowing things down to a 2-person race does increase Nikki Haley’s minute chances of winning the nomination, while also increasing Donald Trump’s already huge probability of winning.
Niki Haley yesterday congratulated Trump while also claiming she was moving up because she got a higher percentage of votes than in early polls and previous nominating contests.
You can’t reason that way. That would be ignoring everything you know outside of those facts about polls and votes.
Nikki Haley will probably lose badly in South Carolina but stay in the race till Super Tuesday where in many states independents can vote and some don’t even have party registration. And between SC and Super Tuesday comes Michigan, where she won’t do well, and has no reason to do well..
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/2024/michigan
Trump, in his speech called upon her to quit and somebody there in the crowd called her birdbrain, if I am right.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:51 pmolumn from last June:
https://nypost.com/2023/06/13/millions-losing-faith-in-our-system-over-trump-biden-divide
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 1:58 pmhttps://nypost.com/2024/01/24/opinion/trump-shows-he-is-deflon-don-after-beating-haley-in-new-hampshire [sic in URL – should be teflon don but once they posted it it stays]
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:06 pmNews outside the bubble: Republican establishment stooge jeff dewitt resigns from az party leadership after being caught trying to bribe kari lake into not running for senate to clear the way for his rich friend. (DU) Republican party in south carolina running pro menthal cigarette ads to attract black people. (DU)
asset (de5060) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:18 pm593/ 603. Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/23/2024 @ 5:28 pm
I read that the problem was that he refused to file a “Brandeis brief” but was arguing solely on the legal merits.
Lessig also tried to run for president in 2020, but withdrew because he couldn’t get on the ballot.
Now he (a Harvard professor) and Matthew A. Seligman (a Stanford professor have written a book called “How to Steal a Presidential Election.” which will available from Amazon on February 15,.. in which they purport to have found a legal way a presidential election could be stolen. I don’t agree with them. If a state legislature would be afraid to cast a state’s votes before the election, they would be equally unlikely to change the law after the election.
The gist of their argument is this:
Correct electors, but wrong votes. Thee argument is that if a state could force electors to honor their pledges, it could alsp force electors to violate their pledges.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:24 pm615.
637.
Scooter Libby had to talk, or lose his job, because President George W. Bush said anyone who took the 5th amendment would have to resign.
The whole thing was very unfair.
The problem was the accusation that the fact that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA was leaked in order to punish Joe Wilson. That was not the case. Judith Miller had asked: Who selected Joe Wilson?
Scooter Libby asked around and the CIA responded with a lie, saying that it was because his wife worked for the CIA and eh told Judith Miller. The story was first published by columnist Robert Novak, because the CIA was spreading this lie around the government.
The reason for Joe Wilson’s trip really was because the CIA did not want to say its intelligence was wrong, so instead of answering the question Cheney asked about whether they were sure that Iraq had tried to buy uranium from Niger (based in reality on sloppily forged documents) they sent Joe Wilson on a trip and he reported back that Iraq had not actually bought any uranium from Niger, which was not the question.
The whole story was probably Iraqi disinformation because if Iraq needed to buy uranium then they were back to Square One and didn’t even have any enriched uranium. If you thought about it, it hurt the case for going to war against Iraq on the grounds that they were trying to get weapons of mass destruction.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:40 pmI agree with norcal 642. Great comment.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:28 am
Thank you, DRJ. It’s always nice to see you here.
norcal (84b82c) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:46 pmThe gist of their argument is poor, whining about how states can direct electors to vote AS THEY WERE ELECTED TO VOTE.
To stretch that to maybe the legislature could order them to BE faithless is asinine and silly. A waste of my time when I first read it, and a waste my time again to call it out.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:49 pmThe Republican committee chairman in Arizona offering bribes not to run shows how purely corrupt the political class truly is.
NJRob (2e9e84) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:51 pmA case can be made that the election was stolen from trump by the republican party passing ballot access laws to prevent the libertarian party from getting on the ballot
The LP was on all 50 state ballots in 2020 and 2016, and on 48 states in 2012. Those laws didn’t stop them. IF they stopped the Green Party, that’s because the Green Party is packed with incompetent dolts.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 2:53 pmI credited Allahpundit above but it was actually Kevin Williamson, who concluded with these words:
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 3:16 pmIs it illegal or dishonest to pay someone not to run for office? Why is that a bribe?
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 3:29 pmThe NPR version of the Kari Lake-Jeff DeWit “bribe” story.
It’s interesting only if it turns out that it was Kari Lake who leaked it to The Daily Mail.
nk (69286b) — 1/24/2024 @ 3:46 pmSo he wanted her to run for Governor, not Senator? His job was to talk to people so the Party got the best candidates for different jobs.
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 3:51 pmDelaying the inevitable. I expect her Wall Street donors to pull out before then. They didn’t get rich by throwing good money after bad. Reportedly Democrat donor Reid Hoffman, co-founder of LinkedIn, has stopped funding her super PAC.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 3:52 pmTrump threatens Haley:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 3:57 pmTrump is perfectly capable of getting Haley back into contention. All he has to do is talk.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 4:11 pmI doubt that Trump can say anything that will make his supporters desert him. His voters and Haley’s voters are too far apart.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 4:12 pmAnd I doubt Haley can say anything that will convince them to do so.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 4:27 pmRIP singer-songwriter Melanie (76). Best known for Brand New Key and her solo appearance at Woodstock.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:24 pmR.I.P. singer Melanie, of “Brand New Key” fame
Icy (b8c097) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:25 pmMaybe depending on the context. Definitely dishonest.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:29 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:24 pm
Much better link to Brand New Key.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:31 pmIn other non-political news, Jim Harbaugh has signed on as the head coach of the Los Angeles Chargers. Just in time to avoid NCAA sanctions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:35 pmLike it or not, Nikki Haley is the last defender of the shining city on the hill. Nothing else stands between the GOP and Mordor.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:40 pmNow that is mixed metaphor.
Rip Murdock (276836) — 1/24/2024 @ 5:54 pmhttps://www.dailysignal.com/2024/01/24/breaking-ohio-senate-overrides-dewine-veto-bill-protecting-kids-gender-affirming-care/
A small blessing in these difficult times.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:07 pmhttps://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-statement-on-texas-constitutional-right-to-self-defense
Another small blessing
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:08 pmNow that is mixed metaphor.
I have more.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:09 pmAlthough if the shining city on the hill is Minas Tirith, it’s not so mixed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:11 pmike it or not, Nikki Haley is the last defender of the shining city on the hill. Nothing else stands between the GOP and Mordor.
Oh, come on! Kevin, that is downright embarrassing. Now if you had said she’s the only one in sight with a pooper scooper ….
Trump is dog sh!t. And to quote Clint Eastwood, a lot of things can happen to dog sh!t. It can be scraped up with a shovel off the ground. It can dry up and blow away in the wind. Or it can be stepped on and squashed.
We don’t need a champion. We just need a garden hose.
nk (244c77) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:14 pmSpeaking of Tim Alberta, Patterico, he wrote a thorough and incisive takedown of Nikki Haley and it definitely colored my opinion of her. Like all of his works, it’s long but worth a full read.
I think, at some point, she decided to go her own path and not be such a Trump suck-up, kind of like when Christie was in an ICU with Covid after Trump infected him. Going into the first debate, it’s why I didn’t have high expectations of Haley, but her comments and such were impressive and turned me around somewhat. Right now, she’s the least worst choice, where Biden and Trump are competing for a distant last place.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 1/24/2024 @ 6:45 pmHow is it dishonest, Rob? Isn’t it his job as Party chair to avoid having too many candidates (or too few) for particular races? It isn’t unusual for Parties to encourage specific people to run or not to run.
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:31 pmWe don’t need a champion. We just need a garden hose.
Who is going to wield it? Everyone is pointing at the dog shiit and calling it gold.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:47 pmAs it stands, Haley is the last link to the GOP’s past. Maybe it’s hopeless, but then we need a new party. ANd I’d hope that she’d be part of it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:50 pmAs it stands, it’s shiit sandwiches all around. Hungry?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 7:51 pmDRJ,
powerful people out East will pay her not to get in. Find a way to make it legitimate.
Uh huh.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:14 pmI don’t think he would. I think it’s literally impossible to impeach a president. They would make the same excuses I am guessing you would make. The partisan machine would roll into action and give you “reasons.” I mean, people doubt that Oswald shot JFK. A lot of people do. That such a belief is completely insane matters little. Tucker Carlson tells his viewers the government has made contact with aliens and is hiding that from the public. He doesn’t believe that — he’s far too smart for that — but he says it because his audience believes crap like that.
You’re envisioning this scenario where the proof is so obvious we all know it to be true. Well, I am too, but I am also looking at a society that denies things that are proven to a fare-thee-well. No, the machine would roll into action and give Senators, and you, reasons to deny what our lying eyes tell us is obviously true. And you would. And they would.
But you don’t like hypothetical scenarios. Well, this one is hypothetical too, but imagine I had told you in 2023: “Donald Trump is going to try to steal the election, and after it happens, you are going to deny it was really an attempt to steal the election, and you will repeat all the propaganda from the machine that says it was not stolen.”
I would have been right. Of course, you don’t think I’m right because you don’t think it’s stolen. But in the Seal Team 6 hypo, you wouldn’t think Trump had really done it either. I don’t care what the evidence is. You would find a way to deny it.
You can say it’s all hypos and it’s all unfair, but really all I am doing is finding creative ways to explain that you are full of it when you deny that Trump tried to steal the election. There’s nothing hypothetical there. He did it, you deny it, and your arguments are laughably partisan echoes of what the GOP establishment machine tells the Trump drones to believe.
I don’t like talking about this stuff. It just makes me angry.
Patterico (fc12e0) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:25 pmFor Haley? You bet.
Patterico (b5219d) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:25 pmAnd I have really nothing but contempt for her.
Patterico (b5219d) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:25 pmThat’s why Chris Christie, who made attacking Trump the centerpiece of his campaign, is now the front-runner, having run away with the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primaries both.
Let me fix your statement for ya:
It certainly is an indictment of the electorate, and who should we blame for that? The electorate.
The voters are to blame.
Patterico (b5219d) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:31 pm“According to Pace Law School Professor Jim Fishman, federal election laws permit the option of paying a candidate to withdraw from a race. He clarified to Politico that this practice is distinct from bribing someone “for a vote or specific favors,” which is illegal under the law.”
You can give money to people to encourage them to run for office. Why can’t you give them money not to run? It is still the person’s choice whether or not to run.
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:37 pmThe problem with giving someone money not to run is that they would take it and run anyway.
DRJ (268439) — 1/24/2024 @ 8:55 pm@744
You’re off your rockers man.
If it was shown that Trump (or any other POTUS) ordered special forces (or hell, a mercenary group) to assassinate political opponents, especially on US F’N SOIL, of course Congress would impeach/convict POTUS.
What’s insane is that you think that this hypothetical is even a possibility.
It’s outright lunacy to believe Congress wouldn’t impeach/convict the sitting President if it was proven that it was ordered by the President.
The fact that you would made that argument, and even assuming how I’d react to it is full on blinkered my dude.
Holy wtf my dude!
I don’t even know how to respond. You are absolutely mistaken that Americans would tolerate POTUS actually ordering hits to his political enemies. It’s like, you believe that Trump is a dictator!
Trump was impeached over a goshdarn phone call.
Whatever you think it was deserved or not, at least there were some colorable defense on that conversation.
There’s absolutely ZERO defense ordering a F’n assassination and you’re so jaded that you can’t even see the lunacy in assuming partisans in Congress would defend such assassinations.
Are you of the position that any efforts, at all, to contest the election is “attempting to steal an election?”
But that besides the point. Contesting elections, even advancing poor legal theories, or in your words “attempting to steal an election” is no where in the same bloody ballpark in ordering a hit on your political opponent.
Jesus wept.
I’ll state this as slow as possible and with feelings:
If…
there were irrefutable evidence…
that POTUS ordered a hit on his political rivals…
I.WILL.NOT.DEFEND.POTUS!
Clear enough?
And I simply believe you’re full of it by demanding people to describe Trump people tried to “steal the election”. I believe it’s coming from pure animus of Trump and his voters, that you can’t see past it.
If Trump truly broke some election laws…
Why is it so hard for his prosecutors (Smith and Fani Willis) to prove it if that was simply the case. Both cases, the prosecutors has to go through some novel legal theories on their prosecutions to “get Trump”.
If it was truly the case that “he tried to steal the election”, where’s the F’n black & white letter of the law for prosecutors to use, if it was so bloody transparent and easy to convict?
If you can’t convince enough of the laymen of the law that Trump broke, is it really that strong of a case. (unlike the Documents case, that sure looked like he’s in serious legal jeopardy for sure).
And if it was so bloody apparent, why wait so long to indict Trump so that the trials are held during the next election? You don’t think there were some tactical decision to unleash this during election season? If you don’t, that’s very naïve of you.
I don’t know what to tell you… I’m not trying to be a dillweed or a Trumpist here.
I don’t know what to tell you, except Trump was never my first choice. He’s literally my last choice. And had you paid attention to my commenting all those months ago, I’ve implored EVERYONE here to start early and be engaged with the grassroots of their state’s political party. Find a way to nominate a “not-Trump” candidate, and find a way to coalesce behind a strong “not-Trump” candidate somehow to beat him at the primaries/caucus.
You say that I’m an unprincipled civic disaster for even considering to vote for Trump because I don’t like democrat’s policies.
Okay. I’ll take one for the team.
If Trump wins (which I’m not betting on), then you’ll reap the benefit of not having progressive ideologues trying to push California-like political insanities nation-wide.
whembly (3400a9) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:16 pm@748
Yeah, for the life of me, I couldn’t find a federal law that prohibits someone from paying a prospective candidate to NOT run.
Is it dirty or corrupt?
Possibly, and it’s definitely in the “grey zone”.
It reminds me that if you really think about it, not every corrupt/bad/dirty behaviors are criminalized. And, in politics, it’s even more shakey.
It needs to be something absolutely clear that such acts are corrupt, like that time the Illinois Governor tried to hold Obama’s vacated Senate seat for ransom. That’s corrupt and is prosecutable.
Convincing a potential candidate NOT to run, by enticing some financial/professional gains isn’t as clear as a corrupt act imo.
I could be wrong though.
whembly (3400a9) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:24 pmAnd I have really nothing but contempt for her.
Why? I will never ever get the “she didn’t cut her throat like Liz Cheney” attitude. All Liz did was bleed on the floor for all the good it did. Stupid. Principled but stupid. Did no effing good, while providing an alternative to Trump and standing for the things that matter did some good.
As far as voting for Biden — do not think for one moment that Biden would have turned on AL Gore if he had done the same thing in 2000. He opposes Trump PURELY for partisan reasons, although the ammunition Trump gave him is handly, he’d use whatever he could.
This is a sausage factory and you want clean floors.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:29 pmThe voters are to blame.
Why not blame the voters who left the GOP to Trump and his minions?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:31 pmRob,
The GOP chair’s job is to help the Party win in his State. That involves encouraging and helping the candidates the Party leaders think will win and donors will support, as well as discouraging those who won’t win and won’t get support.
The Arizona GOP chair represents the Party, not Trump or Lake. As much as Trump and his followers want the GOP to be Trump’s cult, that doesn’t mean it is.
DRJ (7f07d8) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:45 pmBlame the people who give Trump no money, votes, and support instead of those who give him money, votes, and support. Really?
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/24/2024 @ 10:48 pmNo, I blame the ones who opted out of the battle. If they gave money to anyone it was to someone who must lose, like Hutchinson or Christie, because they signaled the right virtue.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:05 pm@753 Az party chair was put in by the moderates to control the wackos. They even call themselves the mods and the wacks! Wealthy conservatives vs the mecham wing now trump wing. See: abscam.
asset (950197) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:05 pmThat’s a good question, NJRob, and my honest answer is that I don’t know; I assume Trump will be the nominee, and i’m a busy man, so i’ve spent exactly zero energy investigating the Republican candidates political positions and performance history in a way that would allow me to evaluate whether i’d prefer them or Biden. Doing so is an absolute waste of time.
Why, then, am I willing to vote for Haley in the primary?
Because Donald Trump is an unique case, a once in a century threat to the Republic, unlike every other politician of any prominence in my lifetime. The man has no respect for customary restraints on presidential behavior, no respect for the *intent* (as opposed to the letter) of the law, and zero impulse control. He’s *openly* called for the termination of the constitution, and openly advocated that there should be *no restrictions whatsoever on Presidential action*. Given his lack of impulse control, it’s inevitable that at some point he’s going to act on these — and while we *may* be lucky enough to have people in place who can constrain him, we also might not be. It’s absolutely insane to choose to run the risk.
You and I disagree on almost everything, NJRob. I would probably *loathe* the policies you would implement were you to hold the office of the President. But I would vote for you *in a heartbeat* if your opponent were Donald Trump, because — as much as I disagree with you on policy — your policies would not be the kind of threat to the nation that is represented by an unhinged wannabe dictator with poor impulse control.
Deciding how to vote in the primary, were I to reregister as a Republican, is *easy*: vote for whomever is the most likely to be able to deny Donald Trump a delegate. This is how I, a very liberal gay man, ended up voting for *Ted Cruz* in 2016. 99.9999% of the country would get my vote before Trump would.
Deciding how to vote in the general if Biden isn’t running against Trump is *harder* because Biden, while deeply flawed, is a normal politician. The problems I have with him are *policy problems* and *disagreement about tactics and strategy*. I accept, and have accepted for decades, that any politician I vote for is going to be a mixed bag; I will like some things, and dislike other things, and my vote comes down to comparing the candidates, understanding what I like and dislike about them, and then balancing the relative importance of the things I like and dislike. This is … a *lot* of work, and not something i’m willing to do in a situation like this where it’s a guaranteed bet that the person won’t even be a candidate in the general election.
I can think of some things I would hate off the bat, and *support for a nationwide abortion ban* is probably a bar for me to vote for any candidate running against a normal politician. But I’d have to actually do an evaluation.
Come back in late February after i’ve done the research and ask me what I think of Steve Garvey. He’s highly unlikely to make it to the general but we have a blanket primary so I feel ethically obligated to at least look at him.
aphrael (4c4719) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:15 pmDon’t forget the deep state may very well hold a primary election of a sort.
asset (950197) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:25 pmWhembly when you say things like “he was impeached for a phone call” (to use his position to pressure another country to bury his political opponent) it’s tough to believe you wouldn’t also say “he’s being impeached for having a conversation” (asking others to literally bury his political opponent)
Nate (607bc4) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:25 pmABSCAM was actual political corruption:
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:27 pmExactly, Nate. Well said.
DRJ (5d4c55) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:29 pm@760 My bad I meant azscam similar to abscam ;but in az to get mecham’s political opponents.
asset (950197) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:33 pmaphrael (4c4719) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:15 pm
Great comment, aphrael. I wish more people on the left were as reasonable as you are.
norcal (32b9bd) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:53 pm@763 Moderates who are in the middle of the road get run over. With your shield or on it! The one thing I agree with trump.
asset (950197) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:36 amTrump is not likely to be convicted of anything before Election Day, anc I don’t know how it can seriously be supposed that it might happen – nor, is the fact of a conviction, considered in isolation, apart from the crime, and it would never be an abstract matter in a presidential race, likely to cost any candidate too many people’s votes.
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/25/2024 @ 2:38 amNate (607bc4) — 1/24/2024 @ 11:25 pm
That’s not what he did and it’s not what the evidence shows. He merely, as an additional request, askked the Ukrainian president to determine if it was true that Joe Biden had caused the firing of a prosecutor to protect his son. Zelensky did not want to tell him that was nonsense,
Trump had put a hold on Ukrainian aid, without going through the formaal process necessary todo that, but he did not tell the Ukrainians that,, and Ukraine knew that it was being held up, but did not know wjy and did not want to complain because that would reveal that they knew and they could be accused of spying on the United States. Until, at the very beginning of September, Ambassador to the EU (a position he had bought) b Gordon Sondland told them. And it was Sondland who proposed a trade in the hopes that it would free up the aid, but any time it was put to Donald Trump he adamantly rejected the idea.
Trump’s mind had been poisoned against Ukraine by what giuliani reported (probably getting his information from Putin agents)
Congressman Adam Schiff knew about it and arranged to make it public through a strained whistleblower complaint and when it became public, Trump released the hold, He also lied about the phone call, and in response Trump released the near transcript,
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/25/2024 @ 2:52 amTrump could shoot the Pope in front of a joint session of Congress, and every Republican who needed Trump’s voters to get reelected would vote against impeachment. If Trump could not provide them with some lie to hang their hats on (just kidding, of course he could), they would provide him with one and beg him, yes, beg him, to use it to give them cover.
So let’s not kid each other, eh?
nk (244c77) — 1/25/2024 @ 3:26 am@746, Exactly.
I would like Haley to be more aggressive. I cringe every time she says chaos follows Trump, like a shadow doggedly chasing him. But there is zero evidence that her self impaling ala Christie would have accomplished much. Christie saying so is as much wishcasting as anything.
The Dispatch may be the one modestly sized right-leaning media outlet that hammers Trump and his quasi-populist agenda. Most everyone else pays homage to tripe like “political persecution” and readily proceed to defend the indefensible. Trump aided in disrupting a congressional proceeding….at minimum….he showed his intent by actively wanting to join the mob and failing to do anything to call them off for more than 3 hours. He lied to his electorate for months, told them J6 would be “wild”, incited them the day of, ignored his best legal advice, mocked McCarthy’s call for assistance, and then demonstrated that a mere Tweet could in fact have dispersed the crowd. He’s guilty….and even partisans feel it in their bones.
This isn’t rocket science, yet Fox, Talk Radio, and much of the blogosphere can’t assign any agency to Trump. Why? Because that media and the GOP electorate have created a symbiotic relationship that requires Trump to be the focal point…and denial is their sacrament. Another kamikaze candidate doesn’t change that. The GOP requires an exorcism or, at minimum, continued Dominion-like penalties that significantly punish the misinformation orgy.
Rip’s own boy, Christie, admitted that “they just don’t want to hear it”, but Rip just doesn’t want to take that to heart…because he’s invested in the get-Haley meme. The meme that helps Trump and keeps the GOP going down the awful path.
At this point, the best argument to try and move the horde is focusing on judgment. Fitness and shaming just drives MAGA to their safe space where they can rationalize the critique as being the MSNBC line. Maybe over this next month, Haley needs to focus on Trump’s judgment. Leave out name calling and conclusions about criminality that just turn people off…and focus on bad judgment. Trump should have Tweeted for the rioters to disperse. Trump should have just returned the classified documents. Trump should have focused his election objections legally in the courts. Judgment. It ratchets up the case without driving all of his current supporters to mumble in the corner.
There’s no silver bullet here. The GOP and its enabling media is infected. This has inertia…nothing is turning on a dime.
AJ_Liberty (bd7d96) — 1/25/2024 @ 3:43 amnk (244c77) — 1/25/2024 @ 3:26 am
The way I see it, Trump looked at all the corrupt politicians and, having been well informed by his long years of buying and selling them (with varying degrees of benefit to himself), said to the world “hold my beer, I’ll show you how it’s done!”
First, they laughed him to scorn at his every utterance – until he proved their every prediction wrong, and then proceeded to outstrip those posers in every way without first having to “pay his dues” in the political system – and then they hated him as they hated themselves.
And so he broke the body politic in this country, and that is why the sea is boiling hot and pigs have wings.
felipe (5045ed) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:09 amAw, fer crying out loud, Sammy. Trump put a hold on Ukraine aid because Putin ordered him to f*ck with Ukraine as much as he could get away with. Trump being Trump did exactly that but then tried to squeeze a little extra for himself like the jumped-up bellboy that he is.
nk (e95209) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:10 amCongratulations, Rob. Here’s to many healthy and happy years together.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:33 amMeanwhile, the entire fourth estate sings in chorus:
We’re all real journalists
felipe (5045ed) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:34 amfilling up our mills with grist
faking news and answering
to nobody
I will not dispute you, felipe. I claim no immunity for myself from Trump’s ability to be all things to all men.
Lavrentiy Beria chose well when he took Baby Heinrich 673 from one of Himmler’s SS homes for unwed mothers and smuggled him to America to be adopted by Fred and Mary Anne Trump under a phony birth certificate.
nk (6029bf) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:41 amDoes anybody still find it implausible that Trump will be convicted of one or more felonies, and elected President anyway?
I don’t. My gut says that if there’s no guilty verdict by election day, Trump wins. And if there is one, the election’s a toss up.
Take that for what it’s worth, bearing in mind that my powers of political prognostication have a proven value of zero, and that may be inflating it a bit.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:48 amYou overestimate the influence of this forum. Nothing we say here will impact what happens in the future. I doubt any of criticisms of Haley had anything to do with her electoral defeats.
Rip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/25/2024 @ 5:59 amGiven the fact that the polling shows that his voters a) don’t believe Trump did anything wrong; and b) believe he is fit to be President even if convicted (89% in the NH poll), what makes you think that they concerned about Trump’s judgment?
I don’t know what case Haley can make, but she is going to need to overcome the Republican voters desire to nominate Donald Trump.
Rip Murdock (2afedc) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:14 amDoes anybody still find it implausible that Trump will be convicted of one or more felonies, and elected President anyway?
Plausibility is Trump’s stock in trade. Like any successful fiction writer’s and all of Hollywood. We’ll just have to wait and see how many people bring a lightsaber to a gunfight.
nk (44a15f) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:44 amGarvey moved into second place in an Emerson College poll last week:
Garvey is doing Adam Schiff a favor by blocking the two more liberal Democrats, Porter and Lee.
As far as Garvey’s positions, he was rather vague at a recent candidate debate:
I don’t think he’s released his additional policy positions yet.
The most bizarre answer was regarding Medicare:
Medicare (and Obamacare, which he opposes dismantling) is “government being involved.”
Rip Murdock (6098c9) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:08 am@777
I don’t think that poll would be accurate once America sees Trump convicted and sentence to jail. That optic would be so jarring, so ubiquitous that the Democrats and media would spike the football every hour of the day until election day.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:10 amRepublicans are deliberately sowing chaos at the border because they think it will help Trump, and Ukraine is just going to be randomly sacrificed to Russia as a side effect.
SamG (4e6c22) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:10 am@760
It’s exactly how *I* feel when folks regularly shout “bUt TrUmP tRiEd To StEaL tHe ElEcTiOn“.
Don’t like hyperbolic statements used one way? Don’t engage in any.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:12 am@781
What planet earth are you on?
Because, *checks notes*, on Planet Earth Prime™ Joe Biden is the President right now and its under his authority why we have this border chaos.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:14 amThat assumes that the trials will be finished before Election Day, I’m not so sure. And if that does happens it will only confirm Trump’s argument that the “Deep State” is out to get him and his supporters, and would drive his supporters to the polls even more.
We’ll see.
Rip Murdock (6098c9) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:22 amI also feel like, because some of ya’ll hate Trump the exceeds the burning fires at the center of the sun, you routinely handwave the horribles perpetuated by the Biden Administration.
There’s a sort of evil that underpins the Biden Administration rationale for sending incentives for illegal immigrants to come through the border. Which enriches the cartels in their human traffiking, drug trade and outright human misery. As I told you before, this issue as turned me into a single-issue voter in that my son lost 2 good friends to accidental fentanyl overdoses. In both cases, that could’ve been my son’s death, which although he was tempted, refused to partake at the time.
How soon ya’ll forget that during the Covid tyranny that Biden tried to use OSHA, via novel interpretations, to force 80+ million people to get a vaccine in order to retain employment? If you can’t wrap your head around the idea how evil it is to force these 80+ million people to take, at the time, an experiential vaccine under threat of their livelihood, then don’t biotch at me that you’re concerned with Trump “flirting” with dictatorial impulses when Joe Biden has actually engaged in dictatorial acts. It only took SCOTUS to put in stop to that, whereby all three liberal justices dissented. (Another reason why we must have a GOP president to pick right – leaning justices)
And the absolute audacity to drum up votes by the Biden administration to try to pay off student debts by executive fiat, only to be stopped, again, by SCOTUS whereby, again, all three liberal justices dissented. (Yet, again, another reason why we must have a GOP president to pick right – leaning justices)
Just imagine, had Hillary Clinton been President instead of Trump, she would’ve had her 4 liberal Justices on the court with a balance of 6 hardcore liberals to 2 hardcore conservative and 1 squish??? (she’s obviously be in her 2nd term now)
Student loans would now be a thing of the past.
Government forcing vaccines, just to be allowed to earn a living would be standard.
Casey/Roe would still be the law of the land.
Who knows what other insane progressive polices such a liberal court would affirm??
But, because we had a GOP president in 2016, Thee things had to be struck down by SCOTUS because they are clearly unconstitutional.
Democrats, and Biden, are as tyrannical as it gets without channeling their inner-Mao.
Not to mention that Biden is clearly exhibiting significant cognitive decline.
But, sure, *I’m* the civic disaster in this.
I’m just a nobody with 1 measly vote, but at least I know what time it is.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:16 am@784
Yes, assuming one of these trials finishes before election.
And if it’s only his supporters who sticks with him, that’s not enough to win. He’d lose, handily imo.
whembly (5f7596) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:26 am“You overestimate the influence of this forum. Nothing we say here will impact what happens in the future.”
So then why do you care how the 8 people on this forum view the inevitability of Trump?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:35 am@785, I agree with this. Even if Trump loses 10% of his support because of a conviction while further energizing his opposition’s base, how does the math work for him to win? It’s a compelling argument that Haley needs to make across the state of South Carolina. The Trump-Biden election is close now ( I would bet based on perceived immigration chaos and lingering perceptions of inflation as reflected in Biden’s favorability, Trump wins if we voted today). But Trump’s trial will draw historic coverage….and with most witnesses being Republicans, the prosecution’s case will be withering. Think of $1B in day-after-day negative media coverage. Political witch-hunt is harder to justify if Mark Meadows is testifying what you were doing pre-J6 and on J6. Trump will lose independents. His only hope then would be if Biden dies close enough to the election.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:47 amA fine reason to send money to Nikki Haley
Trump threatens to blacklist big Nikki Haley donors
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:58 amI do get the partisan perspective. An argument of economy, judges, and border security would sway me in 99.8% of the cases. That’s why DeSantis, Haley, Hutchinson, Christie, Pence, and even Burgum would be acceptable choices to me over Biden or any Democrat replacement. I also acknowledge that +60M will willingly make that choice. But we are in the 0.2% of the cases where the GOP is contemplating nominating a criminal who chooses to lie about everything. The rationalization that Trump will be constrained or immediately evicted is not compelling. Trump’s laser focus on loyalty seems like the best barometer. The party’s persistent willingness to back him despite both the indictments and his unhinged commentary makes me think he has a long leash. Once you go stand behind Trump, it will be hard to admit that your judgment was off. I don’t think Trump killing his competition or his legal opposition is high probability…but there’s a lot in between there that stresses the system. There’s no reason to roll those dice and polls should reflect that he will lose.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:03 amI don’t. My gut says that if there’s no guilty verdict by election day, Trump wins. And if there is one, the election’s a toss up.
I disagree. Biden’s fortunes are rising with the economy. He will do something to mitigate the border problem (not enough, but it will be presented as enough). His approval rating will also improve through the use of Uncle Sugar dollars under his control.
Meanwhile, Trump has all the adherents he ever will have. A third of REPUBLICANS say they will never vote for him and independents are leery. Given that Trump is capable of the most amazing stupidity and self-destruction, he will manage to shed some of those now favoring him, while repelling the undecided. His anti-anti-abortion comments have already hurt him. Wait until he wades into the immigration thing and either pisses off the nationalists or pisses off the Hispanics who voted for him last time.
I see no path for him to win unless Biden dies in October.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:15 amRepublicans are deliberately sowing chaos at the border because they think it will help Trump
How long did it take you to find that spin?
Ukraine is just going to be randomly sacrificed to Russia as a side effect.
Yes, but by whom?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:16 amMedicare (and Obamacare, which he opposes dismantling) is “government being involved.”
It is bizarre, but I can differentiate Medicare (a somewhat prepaid insurance program) with MedicareForAll, a government welfare program that will likely treat those who have paid in the same as those who have not. So “Medicare for those who deserve it” does have some meaning.
Is the confusion on Garvey’s part, or due to a poor report of what he said? Never assume the reporter got it right.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:22 am@791 them’s the facts. Trump wants to run on the border, so the Senate and House GOP will not move any border bills until after the election. McConnell said as much, and Romney finds it appalling.
Sam G (74da99) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:31 amThe most recent South Carolina poll (conducted in early January before the Iowa caucus and subsequent dropouts) shows Trump up by 29 points. In that poll, nearly 70% of independents supported Ramaswamy. Two other polls (conducted in mid-January by the Trump campaign pollster show Trump up by 40 points over Haley.
I think it’s pretty clear that Trump’s supporters are immune to electability arguments; they believe Trump is the most electable, despite polls that show Haley handily defeating Biden. They aren’t interested in anyone defeating Biden, they want Trump to be that person (“revenge and retribution.”) In the most recent Quinnipiac University survey (late December) Biden and Trump split independents nationally 46/40. So there are “independents” that support Trump, even with all the knowledge his indictments and behavior.
Any trial (especially for election interference) only confirms their belief that the Deep State is out to get Trump and by extension themselves. The fact is that most of the witnesses will be establishment Republicans, not true believers. Mark Meadows is an establishment Republican, and more proof (in MAGA’s eyes) that Trump was a poor judge of character when selecting his staff. If the witness was Stephen Miller that’s one thing, but a Washington insider like Meadows is another.
I wouldn’t hold my breath depending on a Trump conviction ending his campaign.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:39 amRead the article. They’re direct quotes.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:41 amWhich is why I contribute through dark money PACs. They don’t need to reveal their donors.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/25/2024 @ 9:43 amI think it’s pretty clear that Trump’s supporters are immune to electability arguments; they believe Trump is the most electable, despite polls that show Haley handily defeating Biden. They aren’t interested in anyone defeating Biden, they want Trump to be that person (“revenge and retribution.”)
I think it’s worse than that. They want Trump to be their spokesman and to carry all their frustration, anger and hate. To own the Dems. They’d like him to win, but that’s not the main goal. It’s much like why they ran Larry Elder against Newsom in the recall.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:06 amThey would rather have Trump run and lose than have Haley win.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:07 amRead the article. They’re direct quotes.
A few words injected into a reporter’s sentence is NOT a “direct quote.” Unless it’s a transcript, it’s just spin.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:10 amToday, from the department of damp squibs:
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/unsealed-divorce-documents-do-not-mention-fulton-county-da-fani-willis
Appalled (03f53c) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:24 amDirect from The Trumpster!
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:27 amTo be featured in next lawsuit against campaign finance laws.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:28 amSo, basically, when Roman’s attorney claimed that the unsealing of the divorce records would be relevant to the Fani Willis prosecution, because she saw documents that were “improperly” placed under seal, she told a big fat lie.
From the original Atlanta Journal-Constitution story:
Since there are records that have been given to reporters that suggest Willis and Wade took trips together, Fani is not out the woods yet. But one begins to perceive the stink of Trump over the proceedings, yet again. And it looks like another attoney is giving up her reputation for the MAGA business.
Appalled (03f53c) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:41 am>So, basically, when Roman’s attorney claimed that the unsealing of the divorce records would be relevant to the Fani Willis prosecution, because she saw documents that were “improperly” placed under seal, she told a big fat lie.
Sure. This is standard practice in the Trump camp — tell a massive lie, get the public to believe it in a way that deligitimizes the opposition, and then watch people scramble to try and dislodge the *certainty* that’s already lodged itself in people’s minds.
The fact that the lies are actively undermining the legitimacy of the system may or may not be intentional.
aphrael (4c4719) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:51 amI *used* to think it was accidental. But more and more I think it’s an intentional strategy designed to create a situation in which a large percentage of the population will support the overthrowing of the system and its replacement with a dictatorship.
aphrael (4c4719) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:52 am@805 it’s called “flooding the zone with sh*t”
Sam G (74da99) — 1/25/2024 @ 10:55 am> What planet earth are you on?
Numerous Republican Senators are now on record as saying that the *legislative package* that the Senate is negotiating on is being torpedoed by Trump. Some of them are approving of the torpedoing, some are disapproving.
You’re right that the legislative package doesn’t control the administration’s behavior and that a determined administration can frustrate the legislature, but the legislature is currently paralyzed as a direct result of Trump’s rhetoric and the way his base responds to it.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/25/2024 @ 11:31 am@807 If Biden really wanted to remove this as a campaign issue for Republicans, he doesn’t need the legislature (Congress) at all. He has the power to restore what he eliminated on day one of his presidency: reinstate Remain in Mexico, and halt catch-and-release. He could also have his Homeland Security stop cut razor wire and stop filing lawsuits against Texas, and stop lying about horse whips and Texas military personnel allowing migrants to drown. The truth has never been his friend on this issue, nor a friend to those who cover for him.
A border deal isn’t needed. Biden has everything he needs to restore sanity. He simply doesn’t want to, and will halt Ukraine aid to make the point.
lloyd (b377a0) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:06 pmBiden has everything he needs to restore sanity. He simply doesn’t want to, and will halt Ukraine aid to make the point.
So, you believe that if Biden were to unilaterally cave on this, that the GOP would agree to Ukraine aid? Even if Trump said no? After all Trump hates Zelensky and that is his basis of decision on Ukraine.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:11 pmTrump as candidate raises two possibilities, and I don’t know which is worse.
1) He could win. This would be followed by retribution, mass firings, dropping of all charges against himself (or firing everyone who won’t drop them), and armed force against many immigrant communities to round up and deport millions. It would also include the death of Ukraine, Chinese invasion of Taiwan and the effective end of NATO.
Then he’d get around to new bad ideas.
2) He could lose. This would be followed by a call for a 2nd American Revolution (third by some counts) to correct the corruption that led to the false election results. If 50% of the voters think that 2016 was rigged, what do you think they’ll believe about losing 2024, no matter the margin? Especially since Trump will have primed that pump.
Million of armed Americans in the streets, local battles for control, ethnic cleansing, states threatening to secede (or being overrun by those that would). Not good at all.
Or do you think that he’d not go there?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:21 pm@809 Biden caving on this issue is another hypothetical beyond the realm, but yes if he truly caved the GOP would have the votes for Ukraine aid.
lloyd (b377a0) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:28 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:21 pm
He can’t do that without money. He’s not Hitler, who carried out the Holocaust without providing a budget for it, beyond salaries for the SS. And there were very strict anti-corruption regulations in place.
So they had to steal the money to pay for the trains to Auschwitz that day before it got booked, and they had to use slave labor to build to the concentration camps and they had to make a profit – and spend it quickly – and that also had accept donations of food to feed the prisoners. At least the non-Jewish ones.
https://aish.com/the-counterfeit-countess-who-saved-10000-people-from-the-nazis
Unlike with the Soviets, corruption was possible in Nazi Germany and money took the place of a conscience..
There’s no way that Trump could use slave labor and even that requires appropriations from Congress. He could accept help from the state of Texas, though.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 12:53 pm> He can’t do that without money.
There is no effective way to prevent ey out of pot X and spending it on thing Y. He’s *already done that*.
aphrael (71d87c) — 1/25/2024 @ 1:07 pmThe underlying acts seem to be true, regardless of where she got it from.
The New York Times has a signed editorial today (apparently technically a Guest essay) saying that Fani Willis should
recuse herself from the case,take a leave of absence as District Attorney because it’s too important.https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/opinion/fani-willis-trump-georgia.html
I would suspect it was probably a bad case, but because she had campaigned on it, she didn’t want to not indict him herself.
m But she’s probably not a public-spirited official, and she probably did indict so many people in order to create a lot of work for Nathan Wade, who apparently is courting her, even if all that information is not in the
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 1:08 pmsealed records she wants released.. Anyway, Fani Willis has been subpoenaed in the divorce case.
They apparently come from the transcript of a debate. It’s too small a quote to understand what Garvey means by that.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/first-california-senate-debate-transcript
It could be that rev.com garbled something in the transcript.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 1:19 pmcompetitive ballots should be competitive balance.
Also some words like “I mean” were left out and also “we’re trying to figure out if Medicare for those that deserve it, we can be able to afford that in the near future: is one phrase and what he was saying should have been better said this way:
…we’re trying to figure out if we can be able to afford Medicare for those that deserve it (i.e. qualify for Medicare under the current rules)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 1:28 pmSF: Ukraine aid being voted down.
What wll happen then is that President Biden will do something he doesn’t want to do: Authorize (along with European countries and other allies) the use of seized Russian assets by Ukraine.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 1:32 pmnk (6029bf) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:41 am
Heh!
felipe (5045ed) — 1/25/2024 @ 1:44 pm@801, It would be nice to see some donors challenge him
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 1/25/2024 @ 2:07 pmIf any donors (presumably those that supported other candidates) challenge Trump they could be frozen out of Trump Administration, face regulatory investigations, adverse decision by agencies, etc.
Too great a risk and no business upside.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/25/2024 @ 2:15 pmMy point was that Garvey didn’t recognize Medicare as “governmental involvement” in health care.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/25/2024 @ 2:18 pmhttps://www.newser.com/story/345565/us-iraq-to-discuss-ending-coalitions-mission.html
https://www.newser.com/story/345552/new-broker-in-israel-hamas-deal-cia-chief.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:27 pm706. 770.
Putin fooled Trump. The people who took orders from him were Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman who contributed money that was not theirs to various Republican causes and got close to Rudolph Giuliani, first hiring him as a lawyer. They brought “sources” to Giuliani.
The first thing Giuliani did was getting the U.S. Amassador fired. This did not actually turn out to help Putin as Mike Pompeo replaced her with a charge d’affair who was a former ambassador.
The next thing he did was report to Trump that some people close to Zelensky had worked against his election in 2016. One of the things Trump wanted on the call is that none of them should be in his government. Trump did not know that Giuliani had already arranged that because he was not keeping in close touch with Giuliani.. That too did not help Putin.
The third thing was the DNC server supposedly being in Ukraine. I don’t understand it myself.
The fourth thing was get at the truth of Biden firing the prosecutor because an excerpt from the following video (or just audio) had been played to Trump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJIXFqOqVQ
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 1/25/2024 @ 4:44 pmYup! Nate nails it.
Patterico (e857f0) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:22 pmBut he didn’t! The evidence is doctored! The video is probably AI! Roger Stone says so! The recording of the order? Same! The testimony of five people in the room when he gave the order? Liars!
As one of my favorite singers, Radney Foster, wrote: “Nobody can tell you a damn thing if you ain’t listening.” And nobody can persuade you of something you don’t want to be persuaded of.
Senators would acquit. You would find a way to defend him. This opinion is based on the track record of all concerned. Sorry. I’ve seen how you reason and how Senators reason. It’s all partisanship, zero logic or reason. That’s just the way it is. Again: this is why I hate talking politics with you.
Patterico (e857f0) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:25 pmBut never mind that. What if Trump orders the assassination of Biden and, if he’s caught, he resigns before any impeachment?
I’m sure you line up with Republican senators who said you can’t impeach a president no longer in office, right?
So what then?
Patterico (e857f0) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:27 pmLet’s try it another way.
I understand you don’t think Trump stole the election. (You seem to equate trying to steal the election with committing a crime to steal the election, which I don’t think is right, but never mind that for now.)
Let’s say you believed Trump had tried to steal the last election. Let’s say hypothetically that you were convinced he did so in a criminal manner and that he was guilty of felonies in doing so.
Let’s also assume that you believed that Trump showed top-secret war plans to a journalist, and did so criminally in violation of federal felony statutes.
If you believed all that . . .
Would you vote for Joe Biden over Trump?
Patterico (e857f0) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:31 pmAlso:
If you believed that GOP stalwarts had negotiated a bill that would help fix the crisis at the border and you believed that Donald Trump tried to get that bill defeated, to keep the crisis going, to help himself get elected, would that cause you to abandon support for him? On account of how serious the crisis at the border is?
I’m not asking if that is happening. I’m asking: what if you actually believed that was happening?
Patterico (e857f0) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:35 pmAfter the election, Trump went past the point of any other “election dispute” both in degree and kind. No one else sent his minions into Congress to disrupt the vote counting and/or to intimidate members into voting his way. No one else strongarmed state officials into changing votes. No one else created a scheme of false electors in an attempt to obfuscate the results. No one else attempted to use the power of the state to threaten, cajole or bribe people into overturning a clear election.
Sure, Maxine Waters threw a hissy fit once. To put the best face on it, anyone who sees similarities between Dec-Jan 2021 and previous events is seriously lying to themselves.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 1/25/2024 @ 6:40 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/25/2024 @ 2:18 pm
Yes, he did. He was opposed to making Medicare bigger (Medicare for all) wanted competition. Ideally, perhaps he wanted competition instead of Medicare as it exists, but he wasn’t talking about that.
Now, Medicare Advantage has lots of problems, mainly people not understanding what they are getting, snd denial of coverage (while at he same time extending it)
Sammy Finkelman (c2c77e) — 1/25/2024 @ 7:13 pmBud light in reverse. World wide boycott on pizza hut for supporting Israel’s killing women and children in Gaza/west bank. This will get uglier from here.
asset (425dd8) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:22 pm@825
Like I said after… ’tis exactly how I feel about claims that Trump engaged in InSuReCtIoN or StOlE tHe ElEcTiOn.
I’m not the only one that believes that.
whembly (c88dc4) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:31 pm@826
You hate it because you’re channeling your inner “Miss Cleo” to know precisely how I’d respond to those insipid hypotheticals.
whembly (c88dc4) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:32 pm@828
I just wouldn’t vote.
whembly (c88dc4) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:35 pm@829
Then I wouldn’t vote.
whembly (c88dc4) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:36 pm“I just wouldn’t vote!” Why? Vote third party like I am doing. It hurts these bozos and helps third party. Clinton hates jill stein as muchas she hates trump.
asset (425dd8) — 1/25/2024 @ 8:40 pm