Patterico's Pontifications

11/10/2022

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:18 am



[guest post by Dana]

[Ed. I have just been informed by a smirking direct report that today is Thursday, not Friday! Thus, I am a day early with the Weekend Open Thread. A long vacation coupled with a time change has clearly left me confused….]

A lot of newsy things happened this week besides the midterm election, so I’ll throw some of those interesting items in the open thread too.

Let’s go!

First news item

In Iran, a good sign as female morality police members waking up:

But there are plenty of other videos online that show protesters taking on the regime’s female spies and supporters joining the protesters. In one famous incident, a popular Iranian actress who previously backed the wearing of hijabs took it off. Actress Fatemeh Motamed-Arya was one of the 50 hijab-wearing women on a billboard put up by regime-friendly media on a public square. It was titled “Women of my land” and was intended to show support among women for mandatory hijab. But Motamed-Arya refused to be part of the billboard. “I am Mahsa’s mother. I am Sarina [Esmaeilzadeh]’s mother. I am the mother of all the children who were killed in this land,’’ she said in reference to girls killed in recent protests. “I am the mother of all the land of Iran, not a woman in the land of murderers.” In another video, a veiled woman who abused a woman over her hijab was forced out of the bus by other passengers. In yet another video, a girl chases away a veiled woman filming unveiled female protesters. (The regime’s local female spies usually hand over such clips to morality police to help them identify dissidents.)

Shams told Foreign Policy that according to her conversations with eye witnesses, there is growing discontent among female members of the morality police. A girl who was arrested and is known to Shams told her that a female morality police officer helped her escape. Shams added that the same girl said a lot of women who have joined the Basij are on the verge of “leaving their positions” but find it hard to do so because they can’t financially support themselves. “The current regime promises a monthly income and security to the members of Basij and, by doing so, recruit many young women who end up serving as mouthpieces and oppressive forces of the regime in the society,” said Shams.

Second news item

KFC makes a gigantic blunder, apologies follow, blamed it on an error in the system:

KFC has apologized after sending a promotional message to customers in Germany, urging them to commemorate Kristallnacht with cheesy chicken…The fast food chain sent an app alert on Wednesday, saying: “It’s memorial day for Kristallnacht! Treat yourself with more tender cheese on your crispy chicken. Now at KFCheese!”

Around an hour later another message was sent with an apology, according to the Bild newspaper.

Germany takes the 9 November anniversary of Kristallnacht (the night of broken glass) seriously, with numerous memorial events and discussions scheduled to reflect the Nazis’ murder of more than six million Jewish people.

Third news item

Why was Putin invited in the first place:

Russian President Vladimir Putin will not attend the Group of 20 summit in Indonesia next week, an Indonesian government official said Thursday, avoiding a possible confrontation with the United States and its allies over his war in Ukraine.

Luhut Binsar Pandjaitan, the chief of support for G-20 events, said Putin’s decision not to come was “the best for all of us.”

Fourth news item

Further humiliation as Russia retreats from illegally annexed Kherson:

Russia has ordered a retreat from the key southern city of Kherson, the only regional capital it has captured since February’s invasion, in a dramatic strategic setback for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

In the face of Ukrainian advances in the region, Russian troops across the Kherson region will withdraw from the west bank of the Dnipro River, an area that includes Kherson city, Russian state media reported Wednesday.

The order came at a meeting in Moscow between Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the commander of Russian forces in Ukraine, Gen. Sergei Surovikin, as Ukrainian forces approach the city from two directions.

However, Ukrainian officials are taking a wait-and-see position:

“Actions speak louder than words. We see no signs that Russia is leaving Kherson without a fight,” Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser in the Office of the President, tweeted.

Ukraine “is liberating territories based on intelligence data, not staged TV statements,” Podolyak added.

Fifth news item

China revisioning China:

Xi has used the 20th Party Congress’s “work report” (a speech the CCP’s top leader delivers at each congress outlining the ideological and policy rules of the road for the next five years) to demonstrate to the party and the world that China now has an integrated national and international vision of what he calls “Chinese-style modernization.” This vision calls for decoupling economic modernity from Western political and social norms and underlying cultural beliefs. It offers a new international order anchored in Chinese rather than U.S. geopolitical power. And it involves creating a set of institutions and norms that are compatible with China’s own interests and values rather than with those of the West. It is a Manichaean worldview, pitting China’s blend of Confucian and Marxist-Leninist values against the liberal democracy and liberal internationalism of the West and some (but not all) of the rest of the world. As this congress made clear, Xi wants to demonstrate that the CCP under his leadership has both the audacity and the capacity to translate this bold new vision into reality.

Sixth news item

This is why:

In his role as head of the party, Donald Trump has made life extremely difficult — and extremely unpleasant — for anyone who does not agree with him completely, and for anyone who decides to run for office without his imprimatur. And people have noticed. Doug Ducey, a product of the 2014 wave, decide not to run for the Senate in Arizona. Chris Sununu, a product of the 2016 wave, decide not to run for the Senate in New Hampshire. Larry Hogan, a product of the 2014 wave, decide not to run for the Senate in Maryland. Why didn’t Cory Gardner, a 2014 winner, passed on a run in Colorado. Pat Toomey retired. Rob Portman retired. Surely, these decisions are not all accidental. Certainly, they are enough to form a pattern. Ducey, Sununu, Hogan, Gardner, Toomey, and Portman are all intelligent people who may well have reasonably concluded that they didn’t want their lives ruined by challenging a Trump-backed candidate in a primary, or by being an elected officeholder in a party still overly in thrall to his whims. As Joe O’Dea found out, as Brian Kemp found out, and as Ron DeSantis is about to find out, the only thing that ever prevents Trump from throwing grenades at his own side is his current mood. Why bother?

The GOP should have been taking advantage of these figures for years to come. Instead, Donald Trump kept them on the sidelines — and, even worse, pushed for replacements chosen from the third-tier of possibilities, rather than the top. That’s a choice, and one that Republican voters ought to consider as they decide whether working hard to put good people into office is worth their effort and their care.

Seventh news item

In the words of Trump himself this morning:

Remember, I am a “Stable Genius.”

Eighth news item

Kremlin buddies and the midterm elections:

The midterm elections in the United States were a hot topic in Moscow. Convinced that the “red wave” was coming, Russian propagandists rushed to take credit for the anticipated landslide victory that would ensure a Republican majority in Congress and Senate.

On Tuesday, Russia’s Tucker Carlson, top propagandist Vladimir Solovyov, greeted his audience by wishing them a “Happy Interference in the U.S. Election Day.” Yevgeny Prigozhin, known as “Putin’s chef,” who was indicted as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference, likewise decided to publicly fess up to the allegations he previously denied.

This plan to discredit the U.S. elections and convince the Republicans that the mighty Kremlin hand covertly helped push them to victory had backfired. On Wednesday, state TV propagandists were scratching their heads about the wave that turned out to be but a trickle. During the broadcast of 60 Minutes, host Olga Skabeeva asked an expert: “How are our guys in America?” Political scientist Vladimir Kornilov clarified with a chuckle: “Our Republicans.”

Dmitry Abzalov, Director of the Center for Strategic Communications, noted that the outcome was much different than the predictions: “Even the Democrats predicted the red wave that will mow everything down, but it turned out to be quite modest.” Political scientist Vladimir Kornilov said, “The worst fears of the Democrats are now behind them. They easily won the states they were most concerned about.”

Ninth news item

Biden and Xi to meet in person:

At a news conference Wednesday, Biden told reporters that he would use a meeting with Xi to “lay out what each of our red lines are, understand what he believes to be in the critical national interests of China, what I know to be the critical interests of the United States, and to determine whether or not they conflict with one another.”

Biden said he also anticipated discussing issues related to Taiwan, the self-ruling democracy of 24 million people that Beijing claims as its territory, trade, nuclear weapons and China’s relationship with other countries in the region.

[A] senior administration official said Biden would “be honest about a number of our concerns,” including the increased Chinese military activity near the Taiwan Strait, China’s “harmful economic practices” and human rights violations. They will also discuss their policies toward North Korea and Ukraine, the official said.

Tenth news item

You know who to thank/blame for this:

Democrat Hillary Scholten will represent Michigan’s third congressional district. The Grand Rapids area seat was held by Peter Meijer, the freshman Republican who defeated Scholten in 2020 and soon thereafter voted to impeach Donald Trump for his role in instigating the Capitol riot.

As a result, Trump had a vendetta against Meijer. He found a willing challenger for him in John Gibbs, a conspiracy-mongering former Trump administration employee. With a cynical strategic assist from Democrats, who boosted him in the primary with ‘attack’ ads that functionally bolstered his conservative credentials, Gibbs narrowly prevailed over Meijer in August’s primary.

Does Trump’s decision — prioritizing personal vengeance over electoral success — make him more politically viable? Or does it make him a loser? Does any of this make him a more worthy object of Republican voters’ support and trust? Or does it provide yet more evidence that Trump has failed the very voters he claims to represent by pretending that his grievances are equivalent to their interests?

Apparently, to a large swath of Republicans, the risk (and reality) of having a Democrat win a race is more perferable than having a Republican with integrity retain the contested seat.

MISCELLANEOUS

I realize it’s just a typo, but it nonetheless made me laugh:

What quackery!
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck!
Always ducking the truth!
What a quack!

(Apologies. I got a little quarried away there…)

Have a great weekend.

—Dana

565 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello. Apologies for no link to ninth news item. My computer crashed and I had to finish the post on my phone, and for some reason I can’t get the link in the post to work. Here it is.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Second news item
    KFC makes a gigantic blunder
    …. saying: “It’s memorial day for Kristallnacht! Treat yourself with more tender cheese on your crispy chicken. Now at KFCheese!”

    Totally! A blunder. Not that KFC is kosher to begin with, but mixing meat with dairy makes it doubly treif.

    nk (99e331)

  3. Link fixed, another news item added.

    Dana (1225fc)

  4. Poor Steven Cohen…he’s going to have to creep over to Popeyes or Bojangles.

    urbanleftbehind (179bc7)

  5. Dana,

    Many thanks for all that you do

    EPWJ (650a62)

  6. Your timing for the OT is perfect, Dana. Tomorrow’s a day off (not for me, but theoretically), and you usually crank ’em out the day before.

    Regarding Putin and the G20, why not invite him. The other 19 leaders would have the opportunity to condemn his illegal evil invasion to his face.
    I’m also in favor of Ukraine opening negotiations with Putin, but no ceasefire. There’s nothing wrong with talking, but that doesn’t imply agreeing with the shortish autocrat.

    Paul Montagu (32dde5)

  7. Tenth News Item:

    It may have been cynical, but it worked:

    ……..
    Seven Republican candidates made it to the general election after Democrats offered some level of support in their primaries, though they might have won the GOP contest anyway with Trump’s endorsement, which was practically contingent on lying about the 2020 election. Here’s where the risky Democratic bet appears to have paid off and where it appears to have backfired.

    Lost: Doug Mastriano, Pennsylvania Governor
    ……..
    Lost: John Gibbs, Michigan’s Third Congressional District
    ……..
    Lost: Don Bolduc, U.S. Senate, New Hampshire
    ……..
    Too Close to Call: Kari Lake, Arizona Governor
    ……..
    Lost: Robert Burns, New Hampshire’s 2nd Congressional District
    ……..
    Lost: Dan Cox, Maryland Governor
    ……..
    Lost: Darren Bailey, Illinois Governor
    ……..


    The most recent reporting shows Karie Lake behind Katie Hobbs by about 13,000 votes with 70% of the votes counted.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  8. I didn’t want to see Putin invited because currently, he has, without cause, waged war on Ukraine, is actively committing genocide in Ukraine, has illegally annexed four regions in Ukraine, is responsible for the war crimes, kidnapping of Ukrainian children, and for the deaths of thousands.

    Also, I’m not convinced that the other 19 leaders (which include President Xi) would actually condemn him and his activities to his face.

    Regarding negotiations with Putin: Not until Russia has left Ukraine. Putin is not trustworthy, so anything he says, is suspect. Action first, then talk.

    Dana (1225fc)

  9. Rep Bobert has retaken the lead.

    NJRob (78c21b)

  10. Remember, I am a “Stable Genius.”

    “I remain a master strategist.”

    @DarthPutinKGB

    Kevin M (90f346)

  11. At a news conference Wednesday, Biden told reporters that he would use a meeting with Xi to “lay out what each of our red lines are, understand what he believes to be in the critical national interests of China, what I know to be the critical interests of the United States, and to determine whether or not they conflict with one another.”

    XI: “So, I can have everything on this side of the red line?”

    Kevin M (90f346)

  12. One thing that’s been really nice is that the losers this time around haven’t engaged in rampant conspiracy theories and pushed election denials. I expected that they would, I’m glad that they didn’t and that without a scumbag like trump driving it it doesn’t happen.

    Time123 (4e0244)

  13. At a news conference Wednesday, Biden told reporters that he would use a meeting with Xi to “lay out what each of our red lines are, understand what he believes to be in the critical national interests of China, what I know to be the critical interests of the United States, and to determine whether or not they conflict with one another.”

    This is a mistake. It is bad to reduce uncertainty, and tell Xi he can safely do X. Like let fentanyl be sent to the United States, or lie about Covid, or harm the Uyghurs more or help North Korea.

    But Biden seems proud of the number of times or the length of time he has met with Xi, to the point that he is lying about it, so much so that the Washington Post awarded him a ‘Bottomless Pinocchio’ the day before Final Election Day – apparently the first time they gave that to him. They gave that to Trump 56 times.

    It’s done when a president has repeated a statement at least 20 times that received either “three Pinocchios” or “four Pinocchios” – the point at which they say it can be considered a form of propaganda.

    https://nypost.com/2022/11/07/washington-post-rates-biden-with-bottomless-pinocchio

    The statement in question is Biden’s oft-repeated claim that he has spent “more time with [Chinese President] Xi Jinping than any other head of state,” traveling “17,000 miles with him.” The statement has been proven false, with the White House in February 2021 telling the newspaper it was “a reference to the total travel back and forth — both internally in the US and China, and as well as internationally — for meetings they held together.”

    But even that claim [that he’s counting travel time and some of these were long airplane flights] proved to be inaccurate.

    “There is no evidence Biden traveled that much with Xi, the president of China — and even if we added up the miles Biden flew to see Xi, it still did not total 17,000 miles,” Washington Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler wrote Monday.

    I think more than other head of state must refer to the time any other head of state met with Xi Jinping, not that he has spent more time with or travelling back and forth to talk with Xi than he did than he did with any other head of state – which might be true.

    This is not so important. And it actually makes Biden look pathetic rather than hard working.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  14. 12. Time123 (4e0244) — 11/10/2022 @ 11:28 am

    One thing that’s been really nice is that the losers this time around haven’t engaged in rampant conspiracy theories and pushed election denials. I expected that they would, I’m glad that they didn’t and that without a scumbag like trump driving it it doesn’t happen.

    So maybe we don;t have to worry about anyone besides Donald Trump doing this (although Arizona is still open)

    Lee Zeldin conceded 13 hours after tthe Associated Press called the race, and this is consistent with previous practice — sometimes they wait.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  15. Los Angeles mayoral race is still anybody’s guess. It’s actually surprising that Caruso hasn’t yet been soundly defeated. It just goes to show that even a liberal city has a threshold: with enough crime, homelessness, and inflation, they too will look for a different plan of attack than standard Democratic practices.

    Dana (1225fc)

  16. Fifht News Item:

    Xi has used the 20th Party Congress’s “work report” (a speech the CCP’s top leader delivers at each congress

    There’s something that happened there that caused Chinese businessmen to begin thinking of how to get their money, their children and maybe themselves out of the country.

    Power used to be a bit divided.

    Hu Jintao, the predecessor of President Xi Jinping. who was seated next to him was escorted off stage during Communist Party congress.

    Apparently he tried to look at apiece of paper, which he was not given, that listed the new members of the Central Committee. Xi Jinping must have been afraid he would object.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/27/world/asia/hu-jintao-congress-videos.html

    In the minutes before Mr. Hu is led away, he appears to be reaching for a document on the table, where the top leaders and retired elders of the party preside.

    The man to his left, Li Zhanshu, the party’s now outgoing No. 3 official, quickly intervenes, covering it with a red folder. He later slides the document away, speaking into Mr. Hu’s ear.

    It’s unclear what the document was, but all the officials appeared to have papers. A photo of one of the pages, taken later, seems to show that it was a list of names, with the words “Central Committee.”

    The congress was about to announce the new Central Committee, which would make clear that Mr. Xi had pushed out perceived moderates in favor of loyalists. The party’s top leaders and retired elders historically have a great deal of influence over the selection.

    The delegates had not yet voted on amendments to the party constitution, approving Mr. Xi’s report on the progress of the previous five years, or a report on internal party discipline. The amendments, revealed later, reaffirmed Mr. Xi’s importance as the “core” of the party….

    ,,,,Mr. Xi glances toward one side of the hall. An aide then comes over to Mr. Xi, who addresses him and taps a piece of paper. The aide bends over to say something to Mr. Hu — who had been watching the previous exchange out of the corner of his eye, seemingly listening.

    As Mr. Xi looks on, the aide grasps Mr. Hu’s right arm, as if trying to get him out of his seat. Mr. Hu pulls his arm back. The man tries to lift the former top leader from behind, under both arms, but again fails.

    Mr. Hu then reaches for the paper in front of Mr. Xi, which the top leader holds down.

    When the aide finally succeeds in coaxing Mr. Hu from his chair, Mr. Li, the No. 3 official, half-rises from his seat and appears to be moving to engage in the situation. Another official — Wang Huning, the party’s then-No. 5 leader — tugs Mr. Li back down.

    Mr. Li and Mr. Wang represent a changing of the guard at the apex of power in China — the Politburo Standing Committee that was unveiled the next day.

    Mr. Li had reached retirement age, and was leaving. Mr. Wang is the party’s chief theoretician and has served as an ideological adviser to both the current and former leader; he was promoted at this congress to the No. 4 spot, and is seen as close to Mr. Xi.

    With the Politburo Standing Committee now filled with his allies, Mr. Xi will face little resistance to his agenda, which includes bolstering national security and reshaping the global order to better suit Beijing’s interests. None of the new leaders have the experience or are young enough to be considered potential successors to Mr. Xi.

    The standard retirement age is 68 – by that measure, Xi, at 69, should have retired this year, although that was long a lost cause. This retirement policy was instituted by Deng Xiaoping ( who never officially held government office) The two term limit was only observed once, by Hu Jintao. His predecessor, Jiang Zemin, aged 96, was at that Congress,

    (the Chinese leadership must be using a special diet, probably a form of calorie restriction or intermittent fasting – don’t look for Xi to die so soon of old age – at least he doesn’t expect to – one former official recently died at 105 – Madame Chiang Kai-Shek, or Soong Mei-Ling, who was close to her sister, who, as the widow of Sun Yat Sen, was honored by the Chinese Communist government, also probably has knowledge of the secret recipe, did that and died at 105 or 106) and he was at the helm 13 years, some of that really subordinate to Deng. Jinag Zemin retired in 2002, aged 76

    The older leaders didn’t lose all power, though.

    There is the junta – the Chinese military commission, and there are their proteges.)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  17. “That’s a choice, and one that Republican voters ought to consider as they decide whether working hard to put good people into office is worth their effort and their care.”

    nevertrump hasn’t put a single Republican, whether good or bad, in office

    JF (86e276)

  18. mixing meat with dairy makes it doubly treif.

    Not sure there is suck a thing as chicken milk. But there’s almond milk, so wtfdik?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  19. *such

    Kevin M (90f346)

  20. only Oregon could replace the most unpopular governor in the country with her chosen successor

    JF (640354)

  21. Los Angeles mayoral race is still anybody’s guess. It’s actually surprising that Caruso hasn’t yet been soundly defeated.

    The vote total has been frozen for over 24 hours, and the 50,000 total votes is FAR less than the 44% of votes they say are counted. Again, this stuff should be transparent. Secrecy and incompetence is often confused with malice.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  22. only Oregon could replace the most unpopular governor in the country with her chosen successor

    the -20% Trump sh*ttails.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  23. nevertrump hasn’t put a single Republican, whether good or bad, in office

    They have put nearly every Republican, ever, into office. Trump has put a few fake Republicans into office, and a bunch of fake Republicans on ballots which they lost.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  24. Continuing with the NYT account of the episode at the 20th Chinese Communist Party Congress:

    As the two aides begin guiding Mr. Hu away from his seat, the older leader stops to say something to Mr. Xi. Mr. Xi nods briefly, without fully turning to look at him.

    Mr. Hu then pats Li Keqiang, China’s premier, on the shoulder. Mr. Li nods, too, but also does not fully turn around.

    The premier has long been seen as an ally and protégé of Mr. Hu. He climbed the party’s ranks in part through his leadership roles in the Communist Youth League, a party organization that Mr. Hu once headed.

    At least two other people seated at the front table have longstanding associations with Mr. Hu. Wang Yang and Hu Chunhua — the outgoing No. 4 party member and a Chinese vice premier, respectively — were also affiliated with the Communist Youth League.

    The new lineup of top officials unveiled the next day excluded those three perceived protégés of Mr. Hu, breaking with a tradition of balancing different party factions in the leadership.

    As Mr. Hu is escorted out of the hall, he passes behind 19 other high-ranking party officials seated at the same long table.

    Almost none of them give any indication that anything out of the ordinary is occuring. A few are engaged in conversation. Most stare straight ahead.

    ….After Mr. Hu’s departure, the closing ceremony proceeded, with his empty front-row seat the only reminder of the disruption. To most people in China, the whole episode might never have happened. Chinese censors limited search results for Mr. Hu’s name on social media to posts from official accounts, none of which mentioned his exit. The state broadcaster’s news program that night showed footage of Mr. Hu voting, and then his empty seat later in the ceremony, without explanation.

    Late Saturday evening, Xinhua, the state news agency, offered the first official acknowledgment of his exit, writing on Twitter that Mr. Hu was “not feeling well” and had been taken to rest. “Now, he is much better,” the post read. But Twitter is blocked in China, and neither Xinhua nor any other official news outlet posted a similar explanation within China’s internet firewall, further fueling speculation about the incident.

    Regardless of what happened, the symbolism was unmistakable. A former paramount leader, historically the only person with the stature to challenge a current one, was led offstage.

    Now some Chinese, not even in Hong Kong, are quietly beginning to plan their exit, if they weren’t before:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/business/xi-jinping-china-party-congress.html

    “My last lingering hope was dashed,” said the founder of an asset management firm in the southern city of Shenzhen who contacted me hours after the congress ended.

    “Totally finished, completely lost control and absolutely terrifying,” a tech entrepreneur in Beijing texted me after seeing the party’s new leadership lineup, which is packed with Mr. Xi’s acolytes.

    Like many Chinese, they fully expected Mr. Xi to secure a third term, breaking a norm followed since the 1980s. Still, they held on to the hope that his dominance would be tempered by other power factions within the party. Mr. Xi’s sweeping victory, by pushing out perceived moderates in favor of loyalists, made it clear that it would be a one-man-rule system that could last for decades.

    ….Last month’s party congress jolted the Chinese business world with uncertainty. It was seen publicly in the immediate market response: China’s stocks plunged, and its currency, the renminbi, fell in value. I am hearing it in the voices and messages of the many businesspeople I have spoken to in recent weeks who repeatedly call their reaction a “political depression.”

    They are not displaying their anxiety in public, unlike a young demonstrator I wrote about in my last column. All the businesspeople I interviewed for this article requested anonymity for fear of punishment by the authorities. But they are expressing dissent in their own way, pledging to withhold further investment in China or even contemplating leaving their country for another that would exchange a passport for their wealth.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  25. [Ed. I have just been informed by a smirking direct report that today is Thursday, not Friday

    No, it makes sense. Tomorrow is a legal holiday and we don’t have a general thread anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  26. ‘I’m sure our enemies are quacking in their boots while we are still over here trying to count ballots.’

    A broken clock is right twice a day. In this instance, she’s likely right. Democracy may not be dead but it sure looks like Uncle Sam is still using a rotary phone and a walker. Wait ’til she demands a spot on Ways & Means from McCarthy [if he wheels and deals for the speaker gig as expected] as reward to not rock the boat.

    DCSCA (5e48af)

  27. The best way to speed up ballot counting is to reduce the numbers of ballots to count.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  28. Wait ’til she demands a spot on Ways & Means from McCarthy

    She’s demanded a seat on the Oversight Committee.

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-congress-senate-house-11-10-2022/h_0a521ee1c9f71d1c0c112a156801a9bb

    Kevin M (90f346)

  29. @21:

    *500,000 votes recorded, but still no where near the right number.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  30. If you assume the leader in each race will win (and some are pretty close), the final numbers will be 222-213 GOP. Whoever gets the cat-herding job is going to have his hands full.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  31. Abortion trumps all and 2024 abortion initiatives will be on the ballot in many states bringing out women to vote again. Post natal abortion time for rethugliKKKans!

    asset (e29e4f)

  32. nevertrump hasn’t put a single Republican, whether good or bad, in office

    JF (86e276)

    Absurd. Who do you think put every pre-Trump Republican into office?

    And for the record, Trump/MAGA may have put some MAGA Rs into office, but they have also actively worked against putting into office or keeping rational Rs in office too (see 10th news item).

    Dana (1225fc)

  33. nevertrump hasn’t put a single Republican, whether good or bad, in office

    JF (86e276)

    Duh. It’s a two party system. When two factions of one of those parties consider each other enemies, the dominant faction (pro-Trump) can make it, and in this case has made it impossible for the minority faction (NeverTrump) to win elections.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  34. [Ed. I have just been informed by a smirking direct report that today is Thursday, not Friday! Thus, I am a day early with the Weekend Open Thread. A long vacation coupled with a time change has clearly left me confused….]

    Hmm, I don’t know, Dana. If you needed an alibi for something that happened on the other side of the International Dateline….

    nk (48be08)

  35. I like how you think, nk!

    Dana (1225fc)

  36. Abortion trumps all and 2024 abortion initiatives will be on the ballot in many states bringing out women to vote again

    There will be a compromise national abortion law before then.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  37. @36 One side says never the other side says now! Good luck with that.

    asset (9599b8)

  38. Apparently, to a large swath of Republicans, the risk (and reality) of having a Democrat win a race is more perferable than having a Republican with integrity retain the contested seat.

    Well, the feeling was mutual when it came time for regular Republicans to vote for MAGA Republicans.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  39. @36 One side says never the other side says now! Good luck with that.

    But both sides have problems now. There are a lot of shuttered clinics that would like to reopen, and there are a lot of open clinics that cannot handle the demand. And really, how important is it to demand elective abortions after the first trimester?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  40. 6. Paul Montagu (32dde5) — 11/10/2022 @ 11:03 am

    I’m also in favor of Ukraine opening negotiations with Putin, but no ceasefire. There’s nothing wrong with talking, but that doesn’t imply agreeing with the shortish autocrat.

    If they want the negotiations to mean something, they should wait until Russia asks to negotiate.

    What happened at the end of World War I?

    And it is not a ceasefire that should wait (and a partial ceasefire that stops the firing by Russia beyond the ground conflict zone might be OK) but a lifting of the sanctions.

    Sanctions (or a blockade) was not lifted against Germany until well into 1919.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  41. In Alaska the runoff was between two Republicans, one of them the incumbent, Lisa Murkowski, who once won re-election as awrite-in, with Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell backing Murkowski and the official Republican Party of Alaska backing the other person.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  42. Lauren Boebert in trouble?

    And the other is perhaps the most surprising nail-biter of Election Day, and the House race most people are talking about: the reelection campaign of conservative provocateur Rep. Lauren Boebert’s (R-Colo.). Despite coming from a district that favored Trump by 8 points in 2020, she only took a small lead over her Democratic opponent on Thursday morning, and thousands of ballots remain to be counted in Pueblo County, which has favored the Democrat.

    (Link omitted.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  43. We should have, I think, some sympathy for Brittney Griner. The careers of professional basketball players, men and women, are typically short, so that missing the time away from basketball while she has been held as a hostage must have cost her considerably, already.

    (On a more general note: I think we are going to have to — without saying this officially — collect more hostages from Russia, Iran, and other miscreants. We can probably learn things from the Israeli experience, both positive and negative.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  44. I’m sure there is a good explanation for this:

    A note on Donald Trump’s personal ledger was removed before his company turned over a copy to a grand jury investigating the Trump Organization for fraud, a company executive acknowledged in court Thursday.

    The revelation came during the third day of sworn testimony by Trump Organization controller Jeffrey McConney, whose appearance in the company’s New York criminal fraud trial was stalled for more than a week after he tested positive for COVID-19 on Nov. 1.

    (Trump Organization controller Jeffrey) McConney was shown a page of Trump’s 2012 ledger — an accounting of expenses paid from Trump’s personal coffers — provided to prosecutors by accounting firm Mazars USA. Beneath a ledger entry for a 2012 payment of more than $30,000 to a private school appears the phrase “per Allen Weisselberg,” referring to the company’s former chief financial officer who in August entered a guilty plea to fraud and tax evasion.

    McConney was then shown a copy of the same 2012 personal ledger page provided by the Trump Organization to a Manhattan grand jury in 2021. The phrase “per Allen Weisselberg” appeared to be missing.

    “If you go into the system on the general ledger program, you can change descriptions,” McConney testified.

    “Are you saying someone deleted the phrase ‘per Allen Weisselberg’?” asked prosecutor Joshua Steinglass.

    “Yes,” McConney replied. Under further questioning, McConney was unable to say who deleted the entry.
    ……..

    …….I just can’t think of one.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  45. @44. ‘I’m sure there is a good explanation for this:… …….I just can’t think of one.’

    That line of country can get you elected to the United States Senate… and least in Pennsylvania. 😉

    DCSCA (c9550d)

  46. New election results from Los Angeles:

    The Los Angeles mayor’s race has grown tighter, with businessman Rick Caruso now ahead of U.S. Rep. Karen Bass by just 2,695 votes, down from his 12,282-vote advantage a day earlier, according to new vote totals released Thursday afternoon. That gave Caruso 50.25% of the vote to Bass’ 49.75%.

    Going into the day, Caruso held a 2.5-percentage-point lead in the campaign to succeed Mayor Eric Garcetti.

    Roughly 545,000 votes have been counted in the mayor’s race, according to Thursday’s update. It is unclear how many uncounted votes remain, since ballots postmarked by election day are still arriving.

    Experts have said they expect it to take a week or more after election day for a winner to be determined. In the June primary, Bass trailed Caruso by 5% in election-night tallies. One week later Bass went ahead, eventually winning by 7% of the vote.
    ………
    The L.A. County Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk’s office estimated Wednesday that it still needed to tabulate more than 1 million ballots — 985,000 vote-by-mail, 21,000 conditional voter registration ballots and several hundred provisional ballots were left to tabulate.

    The registrar did not say what portion of those ballots came from the city of Los Angeles, but Paul Mitchell, an expert in voting patterns closely monitoring the race, estimated that about 37.5% of the remaining ballots were from Los Angeles city voters. That would mean roughly 325,000 L.A. city votes remained to be counted, figuring in the roughly 50,000 added to the tally Thursday.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. New tantrum from Baby Donnie:

    Trump demands ‘average’ DeSantis duck 2024 run in post-midterm tantrum

    Former President Donald Trump broke cover Thursday evening and insisted that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis rule himself out of the race for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination, describing his potential rival as an “average REPUBLICAN Governor with great Public Relations.”

    “Ron DeSanctimonious is playing games! The Fake News asks him if he’s going to run if President Trump runs, and he says, ‘I’m only focused on the Governor’s race, I’m not looking into the future,’” Trump said in a tantrum issued from his Save America PAC, reprising a nickname for DeSantis trialed at a Nov. 5 rally in Pennsylvania. “Well, in terms of loyalty and class, that’s really not the right answer.”

    The 45th president, who was lampooned as “Trumpty Dumpty” on the front page of Thursday’s Post after his handpicked candidates struggled in the most crucial of Tuesday’s midterm elections, took credit for DeSantis’ rise to the Florida governorship and suggested that weather was the real reason for the 44-year-old’s popularity.

    Does anybody else wonder whether the “DeSanctimonious” is a sop to Trump’s pro-GLBTQ and pro-abortion friends and mega-donors? Or just to Disney?

    nk (48be08)

  48. PS Read the whole article to the end, and you will also have an answer to the assertion

    nevertrump hasn’t put a single Republican, whether good or bad, in office

    JF (86e276) — 11/10/2022 @ 12:06 pm

    From several Republicans. Including John Sununu, and Paul Ryan who calls Trump “drag on the ticket”.

    nk (48be08)

  49. Of course it’s a sop, Trump has to rely on a menagerie of freaks, weirdos, sincere and insincere* ethnic and racial minorities and a smaller core for vote mass.

    *Darren Bailey, much like Bill Brady in 2010 overpaid for Kathy Barnettes and rancho libertarians that didn’t materialize.

    urbanleftbehind (ba1f92)

  50. Getting ballots counted is easy: stop with the mail-in ballots. ONLY the mail-in ballots require time-consuming validation. So, to quote Bob Newhart, “STOP IT.”

    Except for extraordinary circumstances, few people need an “absentee” ballot. The very infirm and travelers, which together make up less than 5% of the voters. State laws should allow for mail-in balloting only when conditions demand it (or you live in Alaska).

    Everyone else can get to the polls in the week or two allocated for that, and those votes are easy to count.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  51. decision desk projects mark kelly winner in az senate seat.

    asset (6fd55e)

  52. I don;t know if “DeSanctimonious” even means anything – it could be a reference to schooll issues,

    I’ve also seen DeSavage, (by a columnist)

    Curtis Sliwa also gives nicknames. He called Kathy Hochul “Kathy crime wave hokum” and he used to refer to New |York Governor Andrew Cuomo as “King Cuomo the Second.”

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  53. Murdoch (or the \New York Post – front page and some columns – to which maybe we can add the Wall Street Journal editorial) yesterday came out quite against Trump running in 2024.

    https://nypost.com/cover/november-10-2022

    https://nypost.com/2022/11/09/its-time-republicans-dumped-trump-the-grump-and-ran-with-ron-desantis/

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  54. @50 you can make voting easy, or you can have trust in the system

    you can’t have both

    JF (54a9a4)

  55. I don’t know if “DeSanctimonious” even means anything – it could be a reference to school issues.

    That’s first on my list, Sammy. The “don’t say gay” bill. Second would be the removal of the Hillsborough County State Attorney for pledging not to enforce the abortion law. Third would be, “Where’s DeSantis’s Stormy Daniels? Hasn’t DeSantis heard that everybody has shtupped a hooker and fallen ‘shorter than average’?”

    nk (56f370)

  56. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/11/08/us/elections/results-colorado-us-house-district-3.html

    Latest results from 11:39 PM ET
    >95% OF VOTES IN

    U.S. House District 3

    Candidate Party Votes Percent Pct.
    Lauren Boebert*incumbent
    Republican 162,040 +50.17% 50.17%

    Adam Frisch
    Democrat 160,918 +49.83% 49.83

    Total reported
    322,958

    *Incumbent

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  57. @50 you can make voting easy, or you can have trust in the system

    you can’t have both

    JF (54a9a4) — 11/11/2022 @ 6:23 am

    The greatest obstacle to voting is pre-registration

    But Election Day registration removes a lot of protection. I saw on Powerline that someone wrote in the comments one place the other day probably last week that in 2001, that person saw a bus drive up three times with people who (all?) registered that day.

    At that time any person could vouch for the addresses of any number of people. That’s since been reduced to a maximum of eight.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  58. 44. The question is: What bad explanation is true?

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  59. @48 “Many in the GOP have pinned the blame on Trump for these losses and don’t want to see him on the Republican presidential campaign ticket in 2024.”

    republicans campaigned against republicans in the general election

    let’s do some deep thinking and figure out why that didn’t help republicans win

    JF (54a9a4)

  60. Trump campaigned against Republicans in the general election. Republicans campaigned against Trump’s gerbils.

    nk (56f370)

  61. The race for Washington’s 3rd House district tightened yesterday. Democrat Marie Gluesenkamp Perez now leads Trumpista Joe Kent 132,161 to 126,279. (After Wednesday’s count, the race was 117,179-108,324.)

    (I made a quick search, but didn’t find any explanation for the tightening.)

    I really, really want Joe Kent to lose. In our top-two primary, he narrowly edged out Jaime Herra Beutler, one of the ten Republicans who voted to impeach Trump after January 6th. (It was considered a safe Republican district before that primary.)

    (Cross posted at Political Betting.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  62. Colorado:
    Michael Bennet
    Democratic Party
    54.9%
    1,255,641

    Joe O’Dea
    Republican Party
    42.4%
    969,426

    nk (56f370)

  63. Utah:
    Mike Lee
    Trump Gerbil Party
    54%

    Evan McMuffin
    Nevertrump AlwaysLose Party
    41%

    JF (54a9a4)

  64. #59 (and many other comments by JF and others) remind me of this little French verse:

    Cet animal est très méchant.
    Quand on l’attaque il se défend.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  65. Wyoming:
    Harriet Hageman
    Trump Gerbil Party
    70%

    Liz Cheney
    Grifter Party
    still 0.0%

    JF (54a9a4)

  66. @64

    Anata wa totemo baka desu

    JF (54a9a4)

  67. The last time Utah elected a Senator who was not a Republican was in 1952. Reelected, in 1970, the same guy.

    nk (56f370)

  68. 1952 1958

    nk (56f370)

  69. It’s all right, it’s okay,
    You can look the other way,
    You don’t need to understand,
    That Trump elected Dems …
    Again.

    nk (56f370)

  70. Somebody please make a Jib Jab with Shaolin monks fighting and the old white bearded one is Glenn Young Kin.

    urbanleftbehind (10b979)

  71. Hopefully a Gov.Katie Hobbs governs like a pre-Dobbs decision Sinemax. Need to give her the Fern treatment like in Jawbreaker.

    urbanleftbehind (10b979)

  72. Trump knows what he’s doing with the lowbrow cracks. Facing a primary, he needs a new crop of lowbrows. The drunks, the meth heads, the wife-beaters, the ex-cons … who heckled Cruz for him is 2016 and Biden in 2020 … their ranks are constantly being depleted by overdoses, cirrhosis, prison, morbid obesity, and general debilitation.

    nk (56f370)

  73. looking like Republicans lost the house 216-220.

    Hope I’m wrong but Democrats are starting to pick their speaker…..

    EPWJ (650a62)

  74. decision desk projects mark kelly winner in az senate seat.

    Why should you care, asset? Isn’t he one of those namby-pamby crypto-Republcians anyway?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  75. @50 you can make voting easy, or you can have trust in the system

    you can’t have both

    Show your work.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  76. It looks like JF’s takeaway from an under-performing GOP is to make the tent even smaller.

    Win a safe-seat with Hageman, but evaporate the House red wave. Mike Lee retains a safe GOP Senate seat, but the GOP might not retake the Senate. This with inflation, economic growth, crime, and immigration all pointing in the wrong direction. It sure seems like Pyrrhic victories. Election denialism lost and hurt the rest of the party. Rational people would conclude enough is enough…others double down.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  77. Well, DJT really helped advance the cause, didn’t he?

    The only one that matters: his child like ego.

    Part of being a leader is strategy and balance—not reaction.

    Ugh.

    You disagree with me, fine.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  78. Simon,

    He has completely lost his way, he forgets what leadership is

    EPWJ (650a62)

  79. Sometimes, when I don’t have anything better to do, I get to thinking. And I’m thinking that Trump had an accomplice in turning the red wave into a purple puddle. Governor Elthridge Gerry.

    In 2010, Obama lost 63 Democrat House seats. In 2018, Trump lost 41 Republican House seats. Biden is looking to lose around a dozen. What happened besides Trump, and why poor Governor (and Vice President) Gerry?

    Two censuses and two redistrictings. Blue legislatures gerrymandered more blue districts, red legislatures gerrymandered more red districts. It was not the ideological lines, it was the district lines that changed.

    What do you think?

    nk (56f370)

  80. @50 you can make voting easy, or you can have trust in the system

    Voting is easy in WA State, it’s 100% mail-in, and the fraud rate is 0.005%.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  81. Well, DJT really helped advance the cause, didn’t he?

    The only one that matters: his child like ego.

    Part of being a leader is strategy and balance—not reaction.

    Ugh.

    You disagree with me, fine.

    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 11/11/2022 @ 8:43 am

    For all of his flaws, Trump helped a lot with the judiciary.

    However, by involving himself with some very poor Senate candidate decisions, and his behavior with donations, Trump has kept the GOP from taking the Senate. Given the rate with which the democrats are confirming federal judges, Trump has done a lot of damage to his one legitimate lasting accomplishment

    Dustin (a87c64)

  82. Trump is completely toxic with independents. He has no appeal outside his base and other Republicans vote for his candidates only because they won’t vote for a Democrat.

    Here in New Mexico, we had a GOP governor and a GOP majority in the state assembly in 2026. Now we have a Democrat governor and Democrat near-supermajorities in the statehouse. Lead coattails. Will no one rid us of this turbulent pest?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  83. I was discussing the Pennsylvania Senate election with a friend, who told me there was talk that, after Shapiro becomes governor, Fetterman might resign, and be replaced by his wife. And I said that kind of move was surprisingly common, historically.

    Thinking about it yesterday, I made a search and found this list:

    The first woman in the U.S. Senate was Rebecca Latimer Felton, who served representing Georgia for only one day in 1922.
    . . .
    In 1978, Nancy Kassebaum became the first woman ever elected to a full term in the Senate, representing Kansas, without her husband having previously served in Congress.[n 1] Since 1978, there has always been at least one woman in the Senate. The first woman to be elected to the Senate without any family connections was Paula Hawkins (R-FL), elected in 1980.

    (Links omitted.)
    Which supports my conclusion.

    And gave me a big surprise with Felton.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  84. Conservatives spent decades ridding itself of some largely unjust media labels. Trump has smeared the GOP with his toxicity and it will be another decade before we can get clean again. I’m not sure the judges were worth it.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  85. Nk,

    Gerrymandering made a huge difference. Looks like Republicans won nationally by 5 pts. But they lost almost every “close” election.

    NJRob (18cc19)

  86. And gave me a big surprise with Felton.

    She was also a white supremacist and Congress’s last former slave owner, and spoke vigorously in favor of lynching.

    Yay women!

    Kevin M (90f346)

  87. RIP Gallagher (76).

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  88. Gerrymandering made a huge difference. Looks like Republicans won nationally by 5 pts. But they lost almost every “close” election.

    Made a big difference here in NM. There used to be three districts: North (Santa Fe + Navajo) (D+10), ABQ metro (D+10) and South (R+8). The legislature, after getting a court ruling that they could ignore the redistricting commission entirely, did just that and moved parts of ABQ into all 3 districts, making them all about D+5, while removing any political power from the people and towns to the south.

    Now, I’m not sorry to see Harrell go — she was a Trumpian denier — but the open gerrymander — the state senate leader said it was necessary to ensure progressive government — really stunk.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  89. I have no problem with gerrymandering-it’s as American as apple pie and both parties do it.

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  90. Voting is easy in WA State, it’s 100% mail-in, and the fraud rate is 0.005%.
    Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/11/2022 @ 9:05 am

    show your work

    here, I’ll show mine:
    “Washington has not had a Republican governor since John Spellman left office in 1985, the longest streak of Democratic leadership of any state in the country and the third longest streak of one-party leadership after South Dakota”

    JF (54a9a4)

  91. the party of homelessness, inflation, the drug addled, the out on bail, drag queen story hour, warmongers, border jumpers and antifa did better than expected

    let’s celebrate!!

    JF (54a9a4)

  92. @68 i look forward to Bay State Pierre Mitt Delecto getting primaried in the state he doesn’t live in, and Mike Lee telling him to pound sand

    JF (54a9a4)

  93. Washington has not had a Republican governor since John Spellman left office in 1985

    Non-sequitur. The Seattle area, which has over half the state’s population, has been turning leftward since the 1970s, thanks in part to the influx of liberal Californians.

    As for vote fraud, here’s an example. We run clean elections here.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  94. Oh, and let’s not project Seattle’s dysfunction onto the rest of the state.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  95. Does Seattle admit that there IS a rest of the state?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  96. I have no problem with gerrymandering-it’s as American as apple pie and both parties do it.

    They are all crooks and that doesn’t bother you? Good to know.

    More and more states are striking down gerrymandered maps as unconstitutional.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  97. the party of homelessness, inflation, the drug addled, the out on bail, drag queen story hour, warmongers, border jumpers and antifa did better than expected

    let’s celebrate!!

    JF (54a9a4) — 11/11/2022 @ 9:47 am

    aLL tRUMP HAD TO DO IS what made him popular in the first place – talk about the democrats instead of himself. He should have worked tirelessly to build up the close races, offered to do a tour series with DeSantis, alot would have been foriven

    BUT HE CHOSE NOT TO…

    EPWJ (650a62)

  98. Which has resulted in the discovery of a new federal power in the U.S. Constitution, enforceable by the federal government (its courts for now, anyway), the Independent State Legislature Doctrine.

    nk (56f370)

  99. EPWJ (650a62) — 11/11/2022 @ 10:22 am

    Trump campaigned for republicans

    Nevertrump campaigned for democrats

    .
    .
    .

    Trump’s fault

    JF (54a9a4)

  100. Does Seattle admit that there IS a rest of the state?

    Seattleites easily forget that they’re less than 10% of the state’s population. Outside the city (and a few college campus enclaves), the Puget Sound area is left-leaning moderate.
    Another name for eastern Washington is West Idaho.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  101. Greeted as liberators. Kherson is free from the rashists.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  102. JF —

    Trump repels independents.

    GOP base keeps putting Trump forward.

    Biden reeleected.

    Who is at fault for GOP being out of power?

    Appalled (03f53c)

  103. Trump campaigned for republicans

    Nevertrump campaigned for democrats

    Trump’s fault

    Nothing is ever Trump’s fault. They were unworthy of him. We are all unworthy of him.

    nk (56f370)

  104. JF —

    I leave you with a closing message from of the least never-Trump folks out there.

    https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2022/11/life-after-trump.html

    I’m not a fan of nationalist/populist politics, but will not vote against it on priciple if its politicians committed to actual Democracy. (Then it’s back to the lesser of two evils). I will always vote against Trump and his enablers.

    Trump costs your viewpoint elections. The thing he does best is lose and blame someone else and then stiff his lawyers.

    He’s done. As DCSCA would put it, welcome to 1964. (It looks like Hillary Clinton’s 2016)

    Appalled (03f53c)

  105. If you say “Trump campaigned for Republicans, “Nevertrump campaigned for Democrats”, and leave out Brian Kemp, Brad Raffensperger, Lisa Murkowski, Peter Meijer, and any number of others with the worst instance probably Joe O’Dea in Colorado, then it’s a matter of the IQ of the people you are saying it to, whether they realize you’re peddling a shuck.

    nk (56f370)

  106. My guess is that JF falls into the category unpersuadable.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  107. Appalled,

    NeverTrump campaigned for leftists. Trump voters aren’t the problem. It’s the frauds that support leftists while claiming to be principled Republicans that are the problem.

    They just want to enforce leftist policies. Get on the DeSantis bandwagon or move on. But don’t claim otherwise.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  108. KFC needs some “interns” and/or “staffers” so they will have someone to throw under the bus. That is increasingly important these days

    steveg (18a826)

  109. JF has chicken/egg confusion.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  110. The GOP was doing quite well until 2016. What changed?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  111. Let’s make this simple: Trump is a traitor. He attempted to overthrow the legitimate government of the United States by force. That’s treason and he should hang for it.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  112. Dustin (#82) you make a good point. But I am continually gobsmacked that the gentleman doesn’t understand the difference between his immediate ego gratification and long term goals for SO many issues.

    I agree about the judges. But the accompanying baggage is, um, very costly. My opinion only.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  113. then it’s a matter of the IQ of the people you are saying it to

    I’ve found that many Trump supporters think Trump is really smart. Everything is relative.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  114. As much as it gratifies me that Trump does not like DeSantis, it’s not enough of a selling point for me. Hyman Roth did not like Michael Corleone either.

    Now, Brian Kemp is unquestionably true-blue American, and he put his duty and his honor first, when he stood only to lose and nothing to gain.

    nk (56f370)

  115. As for vote fraud, here’s an example. We run clean elections here.

    The 2004 Washington gubernatorial election was held on November 2, 2004. The race gained national attention for its legal twists and extremely close finish, among the closest political races in United States election history. Republican Dino Rossi was declared the winner in the initial automated count and again in a subsequent automated recount, but after a second recount done by hand, Democrat Christine Gregoire took the lead by a margin of 129 votes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Washington_gubernatorial_election

    I wonder what they would have done if the second recount didn’t turn the trick. Of course that only happened after they searched — at Democrat request — for extra ballots and found 561 more ballots that had not been counted.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  116. None of this tells us very much about ‘Never Trump.’ Only a minority of Republicans voted for Trump in the 2016 primary; the vast majority voted for him against Clinton. The whole point of ‘Never Trump,’ by contrast, was the never part- even after the primary, when it was a binary choice. ‘Never Trump’ would have meant Clinton redux, with all that would have entailed.

    Should Trump has been nominated in 2016? In my view, no, although I have long wanted the party to take a more immigration restrictionist and non-interventionist path and appeal more to lower-income voters. Having been nominated, however, the party faced a binary choice, and the vast majority of its voters, who had not backed Trump in the primary, voted for him in the general.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  117. As much as it gratifies me that Trump does not like DeSantis, it’s not enough of a selling point for me.

    How about this: At this point, only DeSantis has the ability and/or the stones to take on Donald Trump and win.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  118. @118: Trump never won a majority in any primary until New York on April 19th, when the field was down to 3.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  119. Trump campaigned for the politicians who kissed his ring and his whiteass.

    It’s funny how Trumpists have called Liz Cheney a “NeverTrumper”, as if the word “never” has no meaning.

    “at no time in the past or future; on no occasion; not ever.”
    –Oxford Dictionary

    The reality is she became an anti-Trumper after J6, with good reason. A true NeverTrumper is me, and I’ve been one since he first trial-ballooned a run in 2011, and have not campaigned for any Democrats.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  120. #109

    Funny thing — the term “nevertrumper” tends to be used and defined by the MAGA crowd thee days. For example, neither Mitch McConnell, Brian Kemp, Mike Pence, or Brad Raffensparger would ever define themselves as nevertrump. (All of them have said they would vote for him is he were the nominee in 2024). I think the MAGA crowd have them leading the nevertrump parade.

    There are some folks who I guess qualify as self-identified neverTrump. I don’t think they have a lot of power or influence — unless the diea of David French and the Lincoln Project makes you cower in your bunker. There are also a lot of independents that just cannot abide Trump. (I put myself in that category. I did vote for Obama in 2008 and Kerry in 2004, so it’s dishonest to label myself as GOP).

    Appalled (8fb67a)

  121. Kevin M (90f346) — 11/11/2022 @ 12:04 pm

    That election raised a lot of questions, especially about the competency at King County, but no one could prove that the “found” ballots were illegal.
    In many respects, Rossi-Gregoire was similar to the Bush-Gore mess in Florida, and both states have made strides to not repeat that history.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  122. @106. =sigh= You know why the GOP still managed to lose by winning?

    “It’s Putin’s fault.” 😉

    JFK once noted, ‘victory has a thousand fathers, defeat is an orphan.’ Trump doesn’t control the fate of the Republican Party; the membership of the party controls the fate of Trump. The GOP is a populist party now, not one embracing the rejected, ol’Neocon/Bush/Cheney [daddy & daughter) blather. That’s the orphan- and transference won’t work for the out of favor GOP rot any more than it works for Biden. No broad party support, no Trump. But populism keeps rooting deeper and deeper.

    And no matter how much the Establishment- select media platforms- and particularly the out of power, bottom of the deck, neocon/National Review/Alamo-hiding Dispatch types try to pin the blame on The Donald, it won’t work. They failed to take full advantage of a grand opportunity. Trump has been out of power two years and was not on the ballot; the Establishment leadership skills and strategies were.

    By now you should have learned what every NYer watched play out in the 1980s: 1.) You cannot humiliate Trump. 2.) Much, much better people– in the cutthroat big league business canyons of New York City have tried to nail him- and failed; much better than the NeverTrump/neocon/minority weenies and Establishment parasites who’ve wholly failed and been rejected by the GOP. DeSantis is an opportunist, not a populist– and Floridian demographics are certainly not the USA. His path to POTUShood is as VP for Trump; The Donald’s ‘apprentice’ for his term limited 4 years then run for the full 8. They’ll bury the hatchet. Ask Lil’Marco and Lyin’ Ted– they learned the hard way, too.

    DCSCA (0a64a2)

  123. BTW, if you look at the comment section of Reynolds’ recent post about Trump’s dissing of DeSantis, you can see the tide is turning. The hardline Trumpists are still there, but there are a lot of commenters who are sick of Trump’s schtick.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  124. #124 The GOP “leadership” may bury the hatchet and get on board with Trump for 2024. The man will exercise his plentiful charm to get his legal bills paid.

    But they stay on the Trump train, they’ll lose again. Whether Trump feels any humiliation or not, Trump’s support has a ceiling that just keeps shrinking. Just a question, based on toddler psychology — where is all that acting out coming out of — if it is not striking back after having his ego stepped on? Why the frenetic screaming to prove that whtever disaster that just happened was not his fault?

    Appalled (8fb67a)

  125. I know Jeff Goldstein isn’t a crowd favorite here, but he was all in on Trump and would vote for him again over Biden 2024, big Team MAGA guy, yet has this to say:

    “Trump announcing his intention to run again — if indeed he does on the 15th —may prove to be the death knell of MAGA in 2024. While he’s wildly popular with much of the base, his behavior repels independents and suburban women. And if the midterms taught us anything, it’s that people can be convinced to vote against their own economic interests.”

    “The real Trump problem can only be solved by Trump. And that would take both introspection and a check on his ego — neither of which anyone would suggest are two of his most prominent strengths.”

    I agree here in the sense that any good things Trump managed to accomplish 2016-2020 were overshadowed by his flaws and running again in towards 2024 will drive a final nail into the coffin of his legacy. Jeff’s article shows that Team MAGA know they have an injured old QB and they know they need a replacement ASAP.

    https://jeffgoldstein.substack.com/p/now-whos-being-naive-kate

    steveg (18a826)

  126. @126. As long as the GOP remains a populist party- and that continues to root, the neocon tail cut loose will never wag the dog again, no matter how loud they bark.

    DCSCA (0a64a2)

  127. I feel sorry for the Assistant US Attorneys who are working on a holiday and through the weekend to have a Bill of Indictment ready for the grand jury on Monday.

    nk (56f370)

  128. @55 Wrong again! A certain group will never trust voting. As for same day drop off. Hire more vote counters that solves the problem. If we had double the vote counters it would be over by thursday morning ;but that costs money that cant be used for tax breaks for the rich. Spend more money to hire vote counters for same day drop off and election over by wednesday morning. Again les tax cuts for the rich.

    asset (10c984)

  129. Top U.S. border official says Biden administration pushing him out – reports

    ‘WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A top U.S. border official said on Friday he had been asked to resign or be fired, a sign of tensions within U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration over a record number of migrant crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border.

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Commissioner Chris Magnus said in a statement to the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post that he had been asked to step down by Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, a Biden Cabinet member who oversees CBP, or be removed from the role. Magnus said he would not resign and defended his commitment to the agency, according to the reports.’ – reuters.com

    “Don’t be silly. You’re taking the fall.” – Sam Spade [Humphrey Bogart] ‘The Maltese Falcon’ 1941

    DCSCA (0a64a2)

  130. @128 ABORTION ruling trumps all. Donor class conservative economic libertarian free traders have the money ;but not the votes. all opposed to trump now about 30% of party up from 20% Trumpsters have the votes but many trump candidates don’t have the $$$. Its like when hitler attacked stalin you don’t know who to BOO for!

    asset (10c984)

  131. Asset,

    You are full of it. You were proclaiming just last week that the Pelosi leftists will lose and it’s a repudiation of them not going AOC crazy. Now you just ignore your previous remarks and continue spouting more nonsense.

    Get a grip.

    NJRob (ba8f28)

  132. @132. You want your 1930’s reference? The minority, out-of-favor, neocon clinging, NeverTrumpers and long-in-the-tooth Establishment crowd that blew it this cycle are desperate to attempt backing a DeSantis type to wrestle control back in the populists in the party and all things Trump w/t wetdream they’ll be able to control any champion and him– just like it was believed the powers-that-be, back in the day, would manage their ol’Adolf, once their boy was installed.

    DCSCA (adad79)

  133. When someone keeps talking about “neocons”, I always wonder whether they mean Jews, since conservative Jews were prominent among people who considered themselves “neocons”, when the term was first used.

    Or if what the people now using the term object to is the staunch anti-Communism of the neocons.

    (For the record: Originally, “neocons” referred to intellectuals who realized many of LBJ’s anti-poverty initiatives had failed, and were looking for better ways to help the poor. The Public Interest was their principal magazine:

    Its content included the performance of the Great Society, the fate of social security, the character of Generation X, crime and punishment, love and courtship, the culture wars, the tax wars, the state of the underclass, and the salaries of the overclass. It eschewed foreign and defense policy.

    I subscribed to it for some years, and picked up issues from time to time after I had dropped my subscription.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  134. R.I.P. Kevin Conroy, the voice of animated Batman for the past 30 years

    R.I.P. Gallagher, smasher of watermelons

    Icy (2d51b1)

  135. People are fleeing Trump in droves, even my 90-year-old mother, who has hitherto been a faithful Trump supporter. No more. Last night she told me she would vote for DeSantis over Trump in the primary.

    It would have been gratifying to say “I told you so”, but I didn’t.

    norcal (a1f318)

  136. The first time I heard “neo-conservative” we only had five TV channels, one of them UHF, and it was on a parody of William F. Buckley Jr.’s Firing Line, obviously meant as a substitute for “neo-Nazi”. I saw/heard “neocon” a lot during the Bush 43 administration, but I could not possibly have cared less what the person saying it meant by it. It meant nothing to me, and it could still be one of those stickers in Chinese you find on unassembled furniture as far as I’m concerned now.

    nk (f4157e)

  137. Usage of the term “neocon” skyrocketed during the George W. Bush administration. The Rolling Stones came out with a song called “Sweet Neocon” in 2005. They denied it was about W, but it obviously was.

    The lyrics:

    You call yourself a Christian
    I think that you’re a hypocrite
    You say you are a patriot
    I think that you’re a crock of shit

    And listen, I love gasoline
    I drink it every day
    But it’s getting very pricey
    And who is gonna pay?

    How come you’re so wrong
    My sweet neo con… Yeah

    It’s liberty for all
    ‘Cause democracy’s our style
    Unless you are against us
    Then it’s prison without trial

    But one thing that is certain
    Life is good at Haliburton
    If you’re really so astute
    You should invest at Brown & Root, yeah

    How come you’re so wrong
    My sweet neo con
    If you turn out right
    I’ll eat my hat tonight

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah…

    It’s getting very scary
    Yes, I’m frightened out of my wits
    There’s bombers in my bedroom
    Yeah and it’s giving me the shits

    We must have loads more bases
    To protect us from our foes
    Who needs these foolish friendships
    We’re going it alone

    How come you’re so wrong
    My sweet neo con
    Where’s the money gone?
    In the Pentagon

    Yeah ha ha ha
    Yeah, well, well
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
    Neo con

    I love the Rolling Stones, and this is a good song musically, but the politic message within it is myopic and wrong.

    What? Do you really expect deep geopolitical thinking out of rock and roll artists?

    norcal (a1f318)

  138. norcal “It would have been gratifying to say “I told you so”, but I didn’t.”

    You’re smart to exercise that restraint.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  139. Thanks, Jim.

    norcal (a1f318)

  140. Oops. I have a comment in moderation. Quoted some Rolling Stones lyrics which contained the English equivalent of merde.

    norcal (a1f318)

  141. The lesson of Trump is to never fall in love with a leader. As soon as one falls in love, one starts to ignore the leader’s faults, and feels the need to defend the leader at all costs. Pretty soon the ability to see things objectively is lost.

    In fact, it’s a good idea to keep emotions out of politics, because they often get in the way of reason. People should stop seeing the other side as “evil” or “the enemy”. Just call balls and strikes regardless of party.

    For example, I give Trump credit for the Supreme Court Justices he nominated.

    Likewise, I give credit to Pelosi for supporting Taiwan.

    You see? Was that so hard?

    norcal (a1f318)

  142. The lesson of Trump is to never fall in love with a leader.

    LOLOLOL

    Reaganoptics.
    Reaganaurics.
    Reagannomics.

    ‘There you go again…” – Ronald Reagan

    DCSCA (848b1e)

  143. neocon

    ‘A neocon is someone who agrees politically with conservative ideas including free market capitalism. Moderate conservatives tend to clash with neocons on issues of foreign policy.

    Faith in the free market is one important belief of neocons, but even more important is their support of interventionism. In other words, neocons support actively promoting democracy around the world, even if that means using military force. [– policy soundly rejected by the rise of populist movement.] Neocon is short for neoconservative, which adds the neo-, or “new,” prefix to conservative. The original neocons abandoned their formerly leftist ideals in the late 1960s and early 1970s.’

    https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/neocon

    DCSCA (848b1e)

  144. The ‘lesson of Trump’ is populism can defeat the establishment powers that be. And that populism is not waning anytime soon. Until one of the major parties gets wise and absorbs the key, ‘popular’ elements of same to turn down the boil beneath the caldron. Until then, the castle will be stormed, regardless of whether a red or blue flag is flying over it.

    DCSCA (848b1e)

  145. looking like Republicans lost the house 216-220.

    Hope I’m wrong but Democrats are starting to pick their speaker…..

    EPWJ (650a62) — 11/11/2022 @ 8:20 am

    Where are you getting that? I told you yesterday to relax, that the GOP has probably won the House. A day later and they’ve still probably won the House. If you have contrary reporting from a reliable election tracker I’d like to see it.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  146. The GOP needs 7 more seats to clinch it. The Democrats need 24. It’s all in the hands of geography now.

    nk (f4157e)

  147. Scott Adams finally caught on.

    Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams has stuck by Donald Trump through countless scandals throughout the years, from getting caught on camera boasting about sexually assaulting women to getting impeached for trying to shake down the Ukrainian government for dirt on political rivals, and for getting impeached again for inciting a deadly riot at the United States Capitol building.

    Now, however, Adams on Friday said he’s finally had enough, and it came after Trump unloaded on Republican Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin for an unspecified reason.

    Better late than never.

    (Will the pointy-haired boss get a new hair do?)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  148. Lurker – we are only leading in 5 remaining races – we were wiped out in California – we’d have to flip 3 more – isnt going to happen

    EPWJ (650a62)

  149. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/live_results/2022/house/

    Find 7 seats we can win…

    They are not there

    EPWJ (650a62)

  150. Now, I’m not sorry to see Harrell go — she was a Trumpian denier — but the open gerrymander — the state senate leader said it was necessary to ensure progressive government — really stunk.

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/11/2022 @ 9:26 am

    I saw who was running in that district, and anyone who thinks Gabe Vasquez is going to actually represent the oil patch counties is kidding themselves. With the South Valley in his district, he’s free to completely ignore the southeast part of his district to his heart’s content. I’ll be surprised if he shows up there more than once in the next two years; at least Harry Teague understood what the workers in that district needed, he just had the bad luck of getting caught in the 2010 Tea Party wave.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  151. @EPWJ. According to that RCP chart you linked, the GOP was won or is leading in 220 districts, the Dems in 215.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  152. No it clearly doesnt

    ak – maybe win

    ca districts 2 wins maybe 50% of votes left

    COLO – 1 win

    AZ 1 win

    thats it

    EPWJ (650a62)

  153. norcal @ 142,

    Comment released. I love the Rolling Stones too.

    Dana (1225fc)

  154. Weren’t the Rolling Stones like, you know, not from America, but like from another country or something?

    nk (f4157e)

  155. That election raised a lot of questions, especially about the competency at King County, but no one could prove that the “found” ballots were illegal.

    The questions that I would raise are:

    “How many times have votes been wrongly voided before, and why did it suddenly become important now?”
    and
    “Would the King County establishment have been as forthright in seeking out these votes had the Democrat been ahead?”

    Kevin M (90f346)

  156. we were wiped out in California

    Issa won.

    DCSCA (ed1a03)

  157. BTW, if you look at the comment section of Reynolds’ recent post about Trump’s dissing of DeSantis

    You have a sterner stomach than I.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  158. I’ve found that many Trump supporters think Trump is really smart. Everything is relative.

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/11/2022 @ 11:57 am

    Of course they do. After all, he told them again this week that he is a “very stable genius”…

    Dana (1225fc)

  159. FWO–

    Harrell came close, so it IS possible. Another candidate in a Trump-free era could win. It’s something like D+2.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  160. @126. Whether Trump feels any humiliation or not, Trump’s support has a ceiling that just keeps shrinking

    Evidence to the contrary: when Trump was actually on the ballot, more people voted for him in 2020 than in 2016. Populism continues to root- and after tasting victory, they certainly aren’t going to abandon populism and flock to an opportunist. Outsiders are still in.

    DCSCA (ed1a03)

  161. we were wiped out in California

    Do you have some secret information? Of the 7 undecided seats in CA, Rs are leading in 6 of them.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  162. Kevin,

    with 50% left to count? – same happened 2 and 4 years ago Republicans lost most of them

    EPWJ (650a62)

  163. A few of our WW II cryptographers are still alive, for example, Julia Parsons:

    Now a spry 101 and living in Pittsburgh, Parsons described the vital mission she and other female cryptologists performed 80 years ago in deciphering enemy messages. Her section in OP-20-G focused on German communications while another worked on Japanese codes.
    . . .
    Because she was sworn to secrecy, Parsons never spoke of her time as a code breaker. She didn’t even tell her husband, Donald, until she learned that her work had been declassified. Married in 1944, Parsons finally divulged her secret to him about 30 years ago.

    Impressive.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  164. with 50% left to count? – same happened 2 and 4 years ago Republicans lost most of them

    EPWJ (650a62) — 11/11/2022 @ 5:37 pm

    Do you think that’s lost on the election analysts at NBC who have every incentive to call it for the Dems, yet project the GOP to take 220 seats? And that’s in line with the projection of every other major election analyst. Now nobody’s saying it’s over, and there’s a fair amount of uncertainty remaining, so you may end up being right. But based on what’s know right now, your prediction is based on superstition, not data.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  165. Weren’t the Rolling Stones like, you know, not from America, but like from another country or something?

    nk (f4157e) — 11/11/2022 @ 5:15 pm

    Yes, but they’ve always paid keen attention to American goings-on, and I believe Keith Richards lives in Connecticut.

    Isn’t it interesting how all the top rock bands are British? Beatles, Stones, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Pink Floyd. You have to get to the second tier before American bands appear.

    The British seem to have better talent, whether it’s music, acting, or politicians.

    Churchill>>Roosevelt

    Thatcher>>Reagan (even though Reagan was very good, she was even better)

    Boris Johnson>>Donald Trump

    norcal (a1f318)

  166. I love the Rolling Stones too.

    Dana (1225fc) — 11/11/2022 @ 5:10 pm

    My kind of lady!

    norcal (a1f318)

  167. “Populism continues to root- and after tasting victory, they certainly aren’t going to abandon populism and flock to an opportunist.”

    It’s not populist to lie about the 2020 election

    It’s not populist to attack governors that are smarter and more politically saavy than you are

    It’s not populist to bilk people to cover your legal fees

    It’s not populist to fail to do your duty as the chief law enforcement officer

    It’s not populist to bend over for tyrrants

    Trump left little indelible mark on illegal immigration. His trade policy changed little except for causing farmers to need a bailout. His performance during Covid was embarrassing. Thanks for the judges, now hit the road….

    AJ_Liberty (15d88c)

  168. #166 For what it is worth, Aaron Blake over at the Washington Post says Republican are likely to win a majority in the House, but that their majority is likely to be small, perhaps 220 seats.

    The Republicans remain the favorites — and indeed, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy announced his majority transition team on Thursday — but not huge ones.

    On Wednesday, The Washington Post’s election model suggested Republicans were on course for around 225 seats — enough for a majority with some room to spare. But the latest data put that number closer to 220, right on the edge of the 218 seats required. That’s similar to NBC’s model, which says Republicans are favored to get a similar number — 221 seats — plus or minus seven seats. (The plus or minus essentially operates as a margin of error — and the magic number of 218 is within that margin.)

    (Links omitted.)

    It would have been helpful if he had given us a probability.

    Not so incidentally, Trumpista Joe Kent is probably going to cost Republicans Washington state’s 3rd district, and Trumpista Matt Larkin made a win in Washington state’s 6th district unlikely.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  169. I commented on a National Review article thusly:

    “DeSantis is methadone for those addicted to the heroin that is Trump.”

    Somebody said, “Who’s fentanyl, then?”

    A person from Georgia answered, “MTG”.

    Too funny!

    norcal (a1f318)

  170. AJ_Liberty (15d88c) — 11/11/2022 @ 6:15 pm

    DCSCA is in love with Trump, AJ. You might as well attempt to talk your teenager out of love with a fellow teenager.

    norcal (a1f318)

  171. @169. … whined Royalist AJ.

    Except it is.

    And crying in your beer isn’t going to change that.

    “Winning isn’t everything; it’s the only thing.” – “Red” Sanders

    DCSCA (571e97)

  172. Like I said

    norcal (a1f318)

  173. Republican Joe Lombardo has won the race for governor in Nevada, defeating Democratic incumbent Steve Sisolak. – NBCNews.com

    DCSCA (571e97)

  174. @172. ROFLMAO. As once said:

    “Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time.”- G.S. Patton, 1944

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton%27s_speech_to_the_Third_Army

    DCSCA (571e97)

  175. You can’t make this stuff up. Rubio ‘thrilled’ to rally with Trump, shrugs off 2016 feud and disagreement on 2020 election

    https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/politics/elections/2022/11/02/marco-rubio-plays-down-2016-feud-donald-trump-before-miami-rally/10651096002/

    __________

    norcal, AJ has over 72 million folks to persuade. And they ain’t all teenagers.

    More Americans voted for Donald Trump [in 2020] than in 2016

    In 2020, Trump [won] more than 72,600,000 votes — In 2016, Mr. Trump trailed Hillary Clinton in the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes.

    __________

    Rather than attack populists, populism and Trump voters, better to start questioning today’s leadership and strategies of the current GOP Establishment and how they clearly blew a grand opportunity– and wasted millions of donated dollars- on piss-poor polling and incredibly ancient, 20th century ‘get-out-the-vote’ techniques.

    “Cassius was right. ‘The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.'”- – Edward R. Murrow, ‘See It Now’ CBS News, March 9, 1954

    DCSCA (571e97)

  176. NY is where the Dems took a hit in House races. Also, Ron Johnson was beatable but the Dems wrongly thought an AOCesque candidate was the ticket.

    Dems would have won this seat if we nominated a mainstream Democrat who never wore an Abolish ICE shirt, flirted with defunding the police, or appeared on Russian state TV to trash America.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  177. That was an own goal; the stench of the Waukesha parade incident alone should have made the WI DEM pick either the Bucks owner or the Sinema clone instead.

    urbanleftbehind (4e83df)

  178. Latest results from Arizona: Mark Kelly declared winner; Katie Hobbs increases her lead. (The votes came from Maricopa county (Phoenix) and were expected to favor the other side, because of election day voting.)

    One more big loss for the loser, and likely still another one coming, soon.

    (As chair of the Arizona Republican Party, Kelli Ward has not won many general elections. Will those who elected her notice that some time soon? I hope so.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  179. “You might as well attempt to talk your teenager out of love with a fellow teenager.”

    As Pat Benata said, love is a battlefield

    AJ_Liberty (15d88c)

  180. Batsh-t just declared the loser in AZ.
    This could be the 2nd election in a row that Trump sabotaged the GOP out of a Senate majority.
    The Normal Wing of the GOP did much better.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  181. Had to look it up …Cortez Masto is 1/2 Italian and is married to an Italian-Amercan former Secret Service agent. I wonder if that accounts for a large overlapping Venn diagram of Lombardo / Cortez Masto votes. No Lake Mead jokes either.

    urbanleftbehind (4e83df)

  182. So after Biden dumbs Harris, Biden-Fetterman is a no-brainer, right?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  183. From my Jonah link on DeSantis.

    “Florida was a refuge of sanity when the world went mad,” DeSantis declared in his victory speech. “We stood as a citadel of freedom for people across this country and, indeed, across the world. We faced attacks. We took the hits. We weathered the storms. But we stood our ground. We did not back down. We had the conviction to guide us, and we had the courage to lead. … The survival of the American experiment requires a revival of true American principles. Florida has proved that it can be done. We offer a ray of hope that better days still lie ahead.”

    His tweets are just shy of Team America rah rah for freedom.

    He boasts—rightly—about Florida as a global (dare I say globalist) destination for immigrants, tourists, and business. He’s very proud of Florida’s low taxes (which, in fairness, is a third rail for the state).

    Now, obviously, the context for this freedom boosterism was often related to COVID and—to a lesser but still significant extent—culture war stuff.

    But you know who thinks freedom, low taxes, robust commerce, etc., are core components of conservatism that flow directly from “true American principles”? We members of that “sad remnant” Rod dismisses. You know who has a more … nuanced … view of such contentions and commitments? Post-liberal nationalists. Some, like Patrick Deneen, agree that such things stem from “true American principles.” They just think a lot of those principles are bugs, not features.

    If Ron DeSantis runs for president on the promise to make America more like his vision for Florida—minus the alligators and Florida men—I’m good with that.

    Now, DeSantis may be more of a “nationalist” than I’d like. I honestly don’t know because I’m still unsure of where his smart messaging ends and his sincere convictions begin. But if he runs on freedom, low taxes, reduced regulations, etc. that will look a lot more like continuity with the approach of the Reaganite pre-Trump GOP establishment than a sharp break from it.

    More to the point, without that stuff, he wouldn’t have won on Tuesday. Why? Because that stuff is still popular in this country generally and with conservatives in particular. Pretending otherwise doesn’t make it so.

    He’s not my ideal candidate, but he’s good enough, better than any Democrat.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  184. He could’ve stopped at the first four words, but the rest is pretty good.

    sure sex is great but have you ever been a resident of kherson who gets to tear down a “Russia is Here Forever” poster

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  185. So after Biden dumbs Harris, Biden-Fetterman is a no-brainer, right?

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/11/2022 @ 8:04 pm

    Literally

    norcal (a1f318)

  186. Trump knows what he’s doing with the lowbrow cracks. Facing a primary, he needs a new crop of lowbrows. The drunks, the meth heads, the wife-beaters, the ex-cons … who heckled Cruz for him is 2016 and Biden in 2020 … their ranks are constantly being depleted by overdoses, cirrhosis, prison, morbid obesity, and general debilitation.

    nk (56f370) — 11/11/2022 @ 8:20 am

    Belated thanks for this one, nk. Among your funniest.

    norcal (a1f318)

  187. @185. If Ron DeSantis runs for president on the promise to make America more like his vision for Florida—minus the alligators and Florida men—I’m good with that.

    And Jonah wails…

    The Goldbergs live in the Palisades, Washington, D.C. neighborhood. The Palisades is part of Advisory Neighborhood Commission 3D in Ward 3, the far northwest corner of the Northwest Quadrant just north of Georgetown. The Palisades Typical Home Values: $1,447,891 and up. [zillow.com]

    Swanky digs for a wailer. When Jonah puts his money where his mouth is and moves to Orlando, or Pensacola, or Tallahassee, or Miami’s Little Havana… get back to us.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Palisades_%28Washington%2C_D.C.%29

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Goldberg

    DCSCA (72812a)

  188. @133 When did I call pelosi and her running dogs like sean maloney leftists? The squad didn’t lose corporate establishment stooges like maloney lost. I hope rethugliKKKans take the house it will be by around 4 or 5 seats so pelosi will get on her broome and fly off to SF. If not make her life a living hell! Generation Z voted twice the rate for democrats as millennials who also voted democrat at higher rate then older generations. Demographics gives anti-abortionists a short future. The future belongs to me (AOC) cabaret.

    asset (722bbe)

  189. I was not joking, norcal. I was factually and accurately describing Trump’s populus.

    nk (8489e7)

  190. Have I ever apologized to Ann Coulter for calling her a skinny sk__k?

    nk (8489e7)

  191. with 50% left to count? – same happened 2 and 4 years ago Republicans lost most of them

    You said “were wiped out.” Now you say you meant “probably will be.” You obviously have trouble confusing future and past.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  192. Boris Johnson>>Donald Trump

    [Your name here]>>Donald Trump

    Kevin M (90f346)

  193. It’s not populist to lie about the 2020 election

    Non sequitur. Populism is based on feelings, not facts. At its basis it’s “I’m mad as Hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”

    It’s not populist to attack governors that are smarter and more politically saavy than you are

    Ditto.

    It’s not populist to bilk people to cover your legal fees

    Scoundrels come in all flavors.

    It’s not populist to fail to do your duty as the chief law enforcement officer

    It sure can be. See the Oregon sheriffs who are refusing to enforce the new guns laws.

    It’s not populist to bend over for tyrants

    At least not foreign tyrants. Huey Long was a populist and lots of people bent over for him, even after he was dead.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  194. 192, Becoming a fanboy of A. Coulter would like going from cans of Raid to Orkin / Rose Pest Solutions for folk like me. Yet I will still be team DeSantis.

    urbanleftbehind (4e83df)

  195. His trade policy changed little except for causing farmers to need a bailout.

    The trade war has changed many things. And since it continues under Biden, it’s manifestly untrue that it changed nothing.

    Overall the trade war has reduced US goods imports from China (figure 1). Imports declined immediately after tariffs were imposed, falling further beginning in March 2020 as global trade collapsed in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, and have since recovered only slowly. Today, US imports from China (red line) remain well below the pre-trade war trend (dashed line), as defined (conservatively) by US imports from the world, and have only recently returned to pre-trade war levels of June 2018. China is now the source of only 18 percent of total US goods imports, down from 22 percent at the onset of the trade war.

    In comparison, current US imports from the rest of the world are 38 percent higher than pre-trade war levels and are even above trend (blue line). With a few exceptions, these imports were not hit with new US tariffs. They have also recovered strongly following the onset of the pandemic.

    https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/four-years-trade-war-are-us-and-china-decoupling#

    (see graph)

    Kevin M (90f346)

  196. As I’ve said before, tariffs are sin taxes, no different than taxes on tobacco. They are a message from the government about what they want to discourage.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  197. As I’ve said before, tariffs are sin taxes, no different than taxes on tobacco. They are a message from the government about what they want to discourage.

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/12/2022 @ 6:06 am

    True, but done right they can be very useful and productive

    EPWJ (650a62)

  198. As I’ve said before, tariffs are sin taxes, no different than taxes on tobacco. They are a message from the government about what they want to discourage.

    I want the government to discourage shutting down American factories and arming the PLA.

    Walking around with a cell phone glued to their hand, now that is like walking around with a cigarette between their fingers, and I’ll concede that that is their personal choice.

    nk (239191)

  199. Another way we could do it is for the IRS to disallow the deduction of all expenditures incurred abroad (“all” means all) from income made by selling the foreign-manufactured goods in the United States. It also saves a couple of bookkeeping steps.

    nk (239191)

  200. Why should Nike be able to deduct its payroll in Xinjiang from income it makes in East LA?

    nk (239191)

  201. NO OPEN BORDERS!*

    *Unless it makes the rich richer.

    nk (239191)

  202. Why should Nike be able to deduct its payroll in Xinjiang from income it makes in East LA?

    Not nearly enough to make a difference really.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  203. Heh! I considered putting that in parenthetically.

    nk (239191)

  204. This week’s Politico cartoon collection has three I particularly like, Wuerker’s red wave, DeAdder’s DeSantis, and Hand’s tribute to election workers.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  205. Thank you for linking these, Jim. I liked #10.

    nk (239191)

  206. Here’s another cartoon, Jim. I actually laughed a little.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  207. “it’s manifestly untrue that it changed nothing”

    But the Trump-promised goal of tariffs is to bring back U.S. production, does your data suggest that or just that the imports moved somewhere else? Now, you may argue that shrinking China’s economic influence is strategically important, but let’s not pretend that tariffs get paid by anyone but the U.S. individuals who face higher prices. Does it become a component of inflationary pressure? Does it put competitive pressure on industries that cannot increase prices on the backend. Simply implying that it is consequential that we are getting our imports elsewhere seems at best incomplete.

    AJ_Liberty (15d88c)

  208. Here’s some other analysis on the tariffs from both sides of teh spectrum.

    The final paragraph in this article states the impact well
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2021/05/20/trumps-tariffs-were-much-more-damaging-than-thought/?sh=73f616ce65bd

    This one quantifies the lost jobs
    https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/83746

    This one gets to the impact on intermediate users of goods impacted by the tariffs
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-states/2021-05-07/trump-disastrous-steel-tariffs

    AJ_Liberty (15d88c)

  209. #207 and #208 – I agree with both of you.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  210. Paul @ 209,

    I laughed.

    Dana (1225fc)

  211. 190,

    Since the value of Jonah’s home is too high and this unacceptable, how much should his house be worth to make his commentary credible? What’s your ceiling? Because, if the quality and value of commentary is based on something like the value of one’s home, what does that say about Trump in Mar a Lago?? I’m curious if your rule of thumb applies to everyone??

    Dana (1225fc)

  212. Dana,

    He’s still concerned where Cruz was during the freeze but not the entire Democrat contingent who on their constituent’s donations had conferences in Florida and Nevada, during the entire time.

    Crickets when confronted with that.

    Mrs Goldberg owns several malls and small manufacturing companies. She’s worth 9 figures… Took 3.6 seconds of reading the articles, he linked…

    EPWJ (650a62)

  213. The only one who has a right to be kicking himself is Dr. Oz. He was the superior candidate in every respect except one. He had the Trump millstone around his neck. Pennsylvanians were not going to overlook the Trump taint.

    Herschel Walker, on the other hand, is a different matter. He made the right personal decision, Trump stench or not. What else does he have? This was his best chance in life, maybe his last chance, to reach for the brass ring.

    nk (239191)

  214. Bill Maher can be brutal at times. An example…

    I wouldn’t be surprised if you nicknamed your penis Mike Pence. Because it’s not hung like it should be.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  215. Because, if the quality and value of commentary is based on something like the value of one’s home, what does that say about Trump in Mar a Lago?? I’m curious if your rule of thumb applies to everyone??
    Dana (1225fc) — 11/12/2022 @ 9:15 am

    Jonah is free to run for office anytime. Rich and poor people do it all the time and it probably doesn’t matter to most voters.

    He got rich somehow, and good for him. Maybe it comes with the two Pulitzers.

    i think he’d make a better politician than talking head. But, it looks like he wants to command attention from the luxury suite instead of the arena.

    JF (a862ab)

  216. Updated election results from Los Angeles:

    U.S. Rep. Karen Bass overtook businessman Rick Caruso in the seesaw battle to be mayor of Los Angeles, with Friday’s tally putting the veteran lawmaker 4,384 votes ahead of the real estate developer in a contest that will not be settled until next week at the earliest.

    The new totals from county election officials put Bass ahead by a fraction, 50.38% to 49.62%, for the first time since Caruso took a slim advantage in the wee hours of Wednesday morning. Bass has now bested Caruso in the last two updates from the L.A. County Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk’s office.
    ……….
    Independent analysts suggest that a minimum of 300,000 ballots remain to be counted, the vast majority of them mail-ins. Bass pulled from behind in the vote count in the June primary on the strength of mail-in votes, and the new totals this week — with the congresswoman gaining three-fifths of the total 82,510 new votes over two days — suggested a possible repeat of that pattern.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  217. JF

    Goldberg lived off his parents, now off his wife, who’s extremely wealthy.

    I enjoy his sanctimonious sanctions, he has done some interesting and thoughtful work, but then he undoes it by his constant need to lecture hard working Americans who didnt live off others all their lives, on how they should think.

    Pat, DRJ, Dana, Paul, Kevin – they all work hard, are where they are because of their work ethic – even when we disagree – I do listen to what they have to say, Tucker, Fetterman, Goldberg, never going to listen to them…

    EPWJ (650a62)

  218. ‘It will absolutely come down to California’: Control of the House hinges on 10 state races
    ……..
    Those (ten) hotly contested (House) races could determine control of Congress or, at a minimum, influence the margin of power. Republicans need to pick up a net of just five seats across the nation to gain a majority in the House of Representatives.
    ………
    For Democrats to have any hope of holding the House, they would need to oust GOP Reps. Mike Garcia of Santa Clarita or Ken Calvert of Corona…….

    Rob Pyers, research director for the nonpartisan CA Target Book, said “the math looks bleak for Christy Smith,” a Democrat challenging Garcia in a northern Los Angeles County district.
    ……….
    Other contests being closely watched are districts represented by Republican David Valadao of Hanford and Democrats Katie Porter of Irvine and Mike Levin of San Juan Capistrano, as well as an open seat in the Central Valley.

    For many races, such as Porter’s and the open Central Valley seat, the result will be determined by the partisanship of late mail ballots. The speed at which ballots are counted varies wildly around the state. Some races might not be called until Thanksgiving, Pyers said.

    The Cook Political Report, which has tracked House and Senate races for decades, had rated five of California’s congressional races as toss-ups and six as particularly competitive.
    ……….
    Here’s where the key races stand:
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  219. @214. ROFLMAO- Crickets weren’t the sitting U.S. senator fleeing his freezing state for Cancun whilst his constituents struggled without heat and light. Canadians like warm places after all- and of late, very far up his best bud Donald’s tailpipe– you know, the fella who insulted his wife, his father and so on. As Tom Lehrer so aptly phrased about fellas like Tedtoo- ‘…a man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience.’

    “Baby, it’s cold outside!” – Ben Munceford [Sidney Poitier] ‘The Bedford Incident’ 1965

    DCSCA (1cc7f3)

  220. @213. It’s certainly acceptable to the Goldbergs, as is the DC suburbs nestled near Georgetown, rather than the muggy, buggy, marshy, sinkhole and hurricane prone environs of Florida.

    “You can have any kind of a home you want. You can even get stucco. Oh, how you can get stuck-oh!” – Hammer [Groucho Marx] ‘The Cocoanuts’ 1929

    DCSCA (1cc7f3)

  221. Goldberg lived off his parents, now off his wife, who’s extremely wealthy.

    It’s funny how so many Trumpists talk like Democrats of yore.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  222. Ms. Remini’s presentation on the missing wife of Scientology leader David Miscavige deserves a lot more media attention. Someone in that cult is literally getting away with murder.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  223. @167. Thatcher>>Reagan (even though Reagan was very good, she was even better)

    Another cultist myth and legend…

    ‘During her premiership Thatcher had the second-lowest average approval rating (40%) of any post-war prime minister… After holding an audience with the Queen, calling other world leaders, and making one final Commons speech, on 11/28/90 she left Downing Street in tears. She reportedly regarded her ousting as a betrayal.’ – wikibio.com

    “When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.” – Maxwell Scott [Carleton Young] ‘The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance’ 1962

    DCSCA (1cc7f3)

  224. Paul,

    1st – I’m not a Trumpist
    2nd – My information comes from an unimpeachable source – Jonah Goldberg himself – Beinart constantly pounds him for being a spoiled kept man… Which he agrees

    His wife is the more successful writer has an impressive career. She’s a first class brilliant mind, you should read her.

    Goldberg has told lies about winning the Pulitzer
    Then he said he won it twice,
    Confronted then he said he was nominated twice
    then changed his story to once
    Then he admitted to APPLYING himself for a Pulitzer (usually a publisher applies i.e. nominates writers to the committee)
    Now he says he just started the application….

    Guys a liar – flat out

    EPWJ (650a62)

  225. I know some groups love a powerful centralized forms of government, but voting, specifically ballot collecting/counting worked very well when it was decentralized. Thousands of satellite precincts did signature validation and most had the voter place the ballot in the scanner. Election central consolidated and verified results, then sorted out the ballots that wouldn’t scan and those were sent to the review teams.
    People trusted this because the widespread reporting precincts became a bipartisan blend, we knew what the spread was, we knew which precincts remained to be counted and how those precincts had historically voted. Results were usually known by dawn Wednesday. People who do not trust the current system are skeptical when counting is days or weeks long, when very large new batches of ballots continue show up for a week or two after election Tuesday, and those newly found ballots swing the count a couple percentage points overcoming the previous leader.

    This is an imperfect comparison, but it appears similar to the time the Soviet Union beat the USA team for gold in the Olympics. The referees let the Soviet team hail mary the ball several times over and overfull court until the Soviets won. To this day, I don’t know if it was legit or not, but it looked ugly

    steveg (c1778d)

  226. If he buys a lottery ticket, does that make him the winner

    steveg (c1778d)

  227. @217. Government service?? Lobbing opinion shells from a Peanut Gallery pays better. 😉

    DCSCA (80ca9a)

  228. It’s funny how so many Trumpists talk like Democrats of yore.
    Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/12/2022 @ 10:26 am

    yeah, apparently that’s worse than voting like democrats of yore

    the funniest part about Jonah’s two Pulitzers is not that he lied about it, but as a self appointed conservative he felt that a Pulitzer was worth lying about

    JF (9834d2)

  229. Trump lawyers left holding the bag:

    A federal judge in Florida sanctioned lawyers for former President Donald Trump who represented him in his failed lawsuit against Hillary Clinton over the 2016 presidential election.
    ……….
    “The rule of law is undermined by the toxic combination of political fundraising with legal fees paid by political action committees, reckless and factually untrue statements by lawyers at rallies and in the media, and efforts to advance a political narrative through lawsuits without factual basis or any cognizable legal theory,” Middlebrooks wrote in a blistering ruling. “Lawyers are enabling this behavior and I am pessimistic that Rule 11 alone can effectively stem this abuse. Aspects may be beyond the purview of the judiciary, requiring attention of the Bar and disciplinary authorities. Additional sanctions may be appropriate.”

    Earlier this year, Trump sued (Hillary) Clinton — and dozens of other people and organizations……..in March, accusing the defendants of engaging in a racketeering “plot” against him in the 2016 presidential election, which he won.
    ……..
    In his ruling Thursday, Middlebrooks sided firmly with (Charles Dolan, a Virginia resident with business connections to another defendant, Igor Danchenko, was also named in the suit) and against Trump’s lawyers — Alina Habba and Michael T. Madaio, from the firm Habba Madaio & Associates, and their co-counsel Peter Ticktin and Jamie Alan Sasson, from The Ticktin Law Group.
    ………
    “Rule 11 sanctions are properly assessed (1) when a party files a pleading that has no reasonable factual basis; (2) when the party files a pleading that is based on a legal theory that has no reasonable chance of success and that cannot be advanced as a reasonable argument to change existing law; or (3) when the party files a pleading in bad faith for an improper purpose,” Middlebrooks wrote (citations omitted). “Here, all three are true.”

    Middlebrooks found that Trump’s pleadings “contained factual allegations that were either knowingly false or made in reckless disregard for the truth” …….

    ……… Middlebrooks concluded that Trump’s lawyers, despite being “warned about the lack of foundation for their factual contentions, turned a blind eye towards information in their possession, and misrepresented the Danchenko Indictment they claim as their primary support.” Their actions, Middlebrooks added, amounts to “precisely the conduct Rule 11 is intended to deter.”

    Middlebrooks similarly found that Trump’s lawyers proceeded with the lawsuit despite not being based on any legal theory that could possibly prevail at trial.
    ……….
    ………. He ordered Trump’s lawyers to pay $50,000 in sanctions and $16,274.73 in Dolan’s attorneys fees and costs.
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  230. If having wealthy parents and fudging biographical accomplishments is permanently disqualifying, then how is Trump exempted? One standard, right?

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  231. Trump lawyers left holding the bag:

    Lawyers screwed over?! Former astronaut Kelly wins in AZ?! A good news Saturday! 😉

    DCSCA (80ca9a)

  232. I have a modest proposal:

    Create a special category of libel law, regarding campaign statements about an opponent, where there is a presumption of malice and knowledge regarding the facts. Loser pays winner’s attorney fees.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  233. BTW, shouldn’t Trump be named a vexatious litigator?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  234. @227: But you had rather different validation rules among precincts. Some were “liberal” in what they allowed, and some went strictly by the book. Guess which side got more votes through. This was a big problem in 2020 — particularly in legislative districts that spanned counties — and I’m pleased that they are trying to correct it.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  235. @230 Thats because they were democrats of yore. They were trump’s winning margin in 2016. Populists are formally ignorant white trash democrats. Trump acts like a dixiecrat and his followers are. They breed more then conservative economic libertarians so get used to them in the party. They have problems winning general elections not primaries. Conservative donor class has the money ;but populists have the primary votes to paraphrase AOC’s famous quote. Who is calling out the corporate establishment democrat leadership in NY!

    asset (35aa19)

  236. He certainly has the vexatious part down

    steveg (c1778d)

  237. If having wealthy parents and fudging biographical accomplishments is permanently disqualifying, then how is Trump exempted? One standard, right?
    Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/12/2022 @ 11:55 am

    as I said, jonah can run for office anytime, whereupon he can be held to the same standard

    of course, then he’d have to win the vote of “florida man”, instead of getting accolades for mocking him

    for nevertrump, that’s always a bridge too far

    JF (8299b6)

  238. This series of videos illustrates Trump seeing the bill come due.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jxGJMOwJW4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOfIObhGMe0

    When you agitate, talk trash, take cheap shots, when your head comes off it makes the highlight reel.
    I would vote for Trump over Biden again, but would rather not be in a position to have to make that call. He does too many things that are indefensible and having a cheap shot artist as a teammate gets draining

    steveg (c1778d)

  239. The Trump act is just so stale. It’s old bread that has been consumed by mold to the point that the mold is growing little blue trees.

    norcal (a1f318)

  240. norcal, Trump is fat Elvis. Sure there are some here who will gladly pull off their panties and offer them to the king, but most just can’t really look anymore. His rallies are 2hrs of grievance and reminiscing about Jail House Rock and Love Me tender. It’s hard to look at the guy who agitated the Jan 6th mob and then watched as cops were pepper sprayed and assaulted with make-shift clubs. Then just more arrogance with the classified documents…..and on and on. At some point we want Elvis to move and sing like the old Elvis. This one’s routine is fat and tired, and just dying slowly on the crapper.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  241. Correct, AJ.

    The fewer and fewer Trump fans remain, the more they become a laughingstock.

    Sad! Or funny! (Take your pick.)

    norcal (a1f318)

  242. https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/11/trump-makes-his-indictment-a-certainty/

    Her is Andrew McCarthy with a great quote addressing Trump’s criticisms of DeSantis and Youngkin:

    But going after DeSantis and Youngkin, accomplished rising stars who give the disheartened GOP hope that better times may be around the corner, is just flat-out nuts. And nobody who’s not flat-out nuts wants any part of flat-out nuts.

    And so I ask a Trump supporter, “Are you flat-out nuts?…Well, are you, punk?”

    norcal (a1f318)

  243. @242. Don’t be cruel:

    Here’s how much Elvis stlll makes, 45 years after his death

    Elvis is still a popular artist all around the world. Elvis Presley may have died 45 years ago, but you would never know it by looking at the data. According to the streaming service Spotify, he averages roughly 16.5 million listeners every month, thanks to the enduring popularity of such songs as “Jailhouse Rock,” “Hound Dog,” “Can’t Help Falling in Love,” and countless others.

    Graceland, his Memphis estate, greets approximately 500,000 tourists every year, making it the second-most-visited formerly private home in the United States. The first most-visited is the White House. Indeed, the saying that “the King is gone but not forgotten” is a major understatement.

    Estimates suggest his estate earned roughly $23 million in 2020 alone, with nearly half of that coming from Graceland.

    Despite Presley’s continued dominance over American popular culture since his death on Aug. 16, 1977, there are still a lot of facts about his life and career that many people don’t know. – mediafeed.com

    DCSCA (2939f6)

  244. @243. No laughing matter:

    Estimates suggest [Elvis Presley’s] estate earned roughly $23 million in 2020 alone, with nearly half of that coming from Graceland.

    DCSCA (2939f6)

  245. I predict there will be many Trump supporters who quietly move on from him without ever admitting they were hornswoggled.

    Pride is powerful.

    norcal (a1f318)

  246. What will J. D. Vance do in the Senate? He is a most unusual politician, famous for saying that his own people are worse off in large part because of their own poor behavior.

    Alongside his personal history, Vance raises questions such as the responsibility of his family and people for their own misfortune. Vance blames hillbilly culture and its supposed encouragement of social rot. Comparatively, he feels that economic insecurity plays a much lesser role. To lend credence to his argument, Vance regularly relies on personal experience. As a grocery store checkout cashier, he watched welfare recipients talk on cell phones although the working Vance could not afford one. His resentment of those who seemed to profit from poor behavior while he struggled, especially combined with his values of personal responsibility and tough love, is presented as a microcosm of the reason for Appalachia’s overall political swing from strong Democratic Party to strong Republican affiliations. Likewise, he recounts stories intended to showcase a lack of work ethic including the story of a man who quit after expressing dislike over his job’s hours and posted to social media about the “Obama economy”, as well as a co-worker, with a pregnant girlfriend, who would skip work.

    Although his analysis may be largely correct, it is, to say the least, unusual for a politician to blame his voters for their own problems. Moreover, there is no obvious way for government to tackle the central problems he identifies, though there are things governments can do — and can stop doing.

    (One pleasant surprise that suggests he may make positive contributions: I read that, after his Senate victory, he thanked many people, but not the orange loser.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  247. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b-17-in-horrific-mid-air-collision-at-dallas-airshow

    Truly tragic. Not only the loss of life– but losing both a rare B-17 and Bell Air Cobra aircraft. Very few still flying in the world.

    DCSCA (2939f6)

  248. I predict there will be many Trump supporters who quietly move on from him without ever admitting they were hornswoggled.

    Pride is powerful.

    norcal (a1f318) — 11/12/2022 @ 3:46 pm

    I predict there are NeverTrumpers that will never admit their pride helped cause leftists to bring untold harm to their fellow citizens and destroyed many families.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  249. Although his analysis may be largely correct, it is, to say the least, unusual for a politician to blame his voters for their own problems. Moreover, there is no obvious way for government to tackle the central problems he identifies, though there are things governments can do — and can stop doing.

    Jim Miller (85fd03) — 11/12/2022 @ 3:52 pm

    Good for J.D. Vance. So many complain about “politicians”, or “the system”, when the heart of the problem is the voters.

    One of the best comments I ever read on the internet was this:

    The problem we are experiencing exist within the underlying American culture, causing the political class to chase this culture, both on the left and the right.

    Our government cannot change until we the citizens change. The change comes from folks reaching out to actually change minds, not just have their selected politicians enacting their feelings.

    So many posters on these boards frame EVERYTHING in terms of the next election. Elections only change politicians. We need a movement to change citizens’ minds.

    Bolding by me.

    norcal (a1f318)

  250. My vote for Trump was for his ability to be a disruptive force in Washington. My expectations were exceeded.

    steveg (70e3ee)

  251. NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/12/2022 @ 4:06 pm

    Recognizing that a President who undermines faith in elections, and tries to scare his Vice President into throwing an election, is more dangerous than lefty policies isn’t pride. It’s discernment.

    You see, lefty policies can be voted out in the next election, but not if election deniers won’t accept the results of the election.

    That is why Trump’s behavior after the 2020 election superseded any good that he accomplished.

    norcal (a1f318)

  252. @244 Not nuts at all. They are 40 to 50% of republican party and can win most primaries. another 25% don’t care one way or the other with an ever shrinking 20% opposed to trump. Do the math. They want to control the rethugliKKKan party first win elections secondary. Despite never trumper propaganda most trump candidates won their elections. Same with AOC and the left control of democrat party more important then winning elections. If democrats lose house they take over power in house caucus quicker as nancy gets on her broom and flys away! Generation Z voted more then twice for democrats then millennials which voted nearly that much more democrat then older generation so it wasn’t picked up in likely vote polling as I said here numerous times before the election. Maybe not 2024 unless Newsome/AOC ;but 2028 or 2032. The future generations love AOC!

    asset (e9bf5e)

  253. Norcal,

    supporting the left by proxy who says their political opponents are all racist, sexist bigots who want to put you in chains and only win by suppressing minority votes is certainly healthy.

    Thanks for your support.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  254. NJRob (eb56c3) — 11/12/2022 @ 4:30 pm

    I agree with you that those are unhealthy things. They can be debated and dealt with through elections.

    But not if people don’t accept election results.

    norcal (a1f318)

  255. norcal (a1f318) — 11/12/2022 @ 4:22 pm

    tell me, norcal, when do we go back to pre-covid voting rules, or are they permanent?

    cuz handing the keys to a segment of the population that won’t vote unless they can slacker their way through it sounds like something we likely won’t recover from

    see California, see Oregon

    when do you expect those states to recover?

    JF (8299b6)

  256. 255/256 Victory! Victory! Thats are cry V-I-C-T-O-R-Y! The squad. Who cares about health when we have medicare for all! Bye Bye sean patrick maloney and nancy pelosi don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

    asset (e9bf5e)

  257. as I said, jonah can run for office anytime, whereupon he can be held to the same standard

    Interesting that you hold pundits to a higher standard than politicians, elected officials who hold a public trust and responsible for crafting the laws of our land. I think you have it exactly backwards, JF.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  258. 257 Vote by mail is cheeper in red states more money for tax cuts for the rich! Floriduh didn’t allow same day drop off allowing for fast vote count ;but disenfranchising voters who lost their voting rights. 2024 Same day drop off will be on the ballot along with abortion rights initiative. Democrats did poor job of allaying fear of black voters that they would be arrested if they voted after desatan paraded black felons before tv cameras who were told they could vote and then arrested them for voting. Fortunetly most were released for entrapment. Also No Latinx for major office so no reason for latinx to be inspired to vote. Anglo gov. black senate.

    asset (e9bf5e)

  259. Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/12/2022 @ 4:53 pm

    I’ve held my nose countless times when casting a vote, and so have you

    do you ever hold your nose to swallow some BS a pundit tries to sell you?

    JF (72a87f)

  260. The Trumpy election denier has officially lost to a Portland-adjacent progressive hyphenated left-winger. Classic.

    Had Trump not primaried “disloyal” Republicans like Herrera-Buetler and Meijer, the GOP would’ve had 221 seats instead of the projected 219. That slim margin is going to render more ineffectual an already ineffectual leader like McCarthy. Trump can blame McConnell all he wants, but we know who created this environment, and it wasn’t McConnell.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  261. do you ever hold your nose to swallow some BS a pundit tries to sell you?

    Yes, in this very comment thread, but no one here is an elected official who swore to defend and uphold the Constitution.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  262. @NJRob@255 You seem quite upset at some of the things Republican voters have been called. I’m a single, highly educated professional woman who works in education, which means that the Republican party (and sometimes you) has called people like me baby-killing, child grooming wh0res married to the federal government. And then expressed surprise when single women voted overwhelmingly for Democrats in the last election and helped make the red wave into something that could be easily absorbed by a menstrual product. Why should I or people like me vote for the Rs in the next election?

    Nic (896fdf)

  263. BTW, steve, I’d been watching Burfict’s antics since he was at ASU. JuJu’s cheap shot on him was long overdue and well deserved.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  264. Nic (896fdf) — 11/12/2022 @ 5:06 pm

    nobody has called anyone like you anything that people who vote like you haven’t hurled at people like me x100

    I can’t think of any reason for you to vote for the Rs. You’re single, and apparently young, meaning zero life obligations other than yourself. The Ds are for you

    JF (72a87f)

  265. Updating the Los Angeles mayor’s race:

    U.S. Rep. Karen Bass expanded her lead on Saturday against businessman Rick Caruso in the race to be the next mayor of Los Angeles, with an updated tally putting her 9,463 votes ahead of the developer in a contest that will not be settled until next week at the earliest.

    The new totals from an additional 29,000 ballots had Bass at 50.78% to Caruso’s 49.22%, according to the latest tranche of results from the L.A. County Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk’s office.
    ……….
    Independent analysts suggest that a minimum of 270,000 ballots remain to be counted, the vast majority of them mail-ins.
    ………
    In the race for L.A. County sheriff, former Long Beach Police Chief Robert Luna expanded his lead of 259,184 votes over incumbent Sheriff Alex Villanueva. Luna had 58.78% to Villanueva’s 41.22%.
    …….

    The Sheriff’s race is the other big election in Los Angeles County. It would be unprecedented for a incumbent Sheriff to lose an election. In my lifetime there have been only four County Sheriffs-Peter Pitchess was first elected in 1958 until he retired in 1982; his successor Sherman Block served from 1982 until his death while campaigning in 1998; and Lee Baca served as Sheriff from 1998 until his resignation in 2014 while under investigation for obstruction of justice. Villanueva’s electoral loss would be the first in 60+ years.

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  266. @JF@266 JF, as I have repeatedly said, including answering questions about my voting record, I am a moderate who has voted both R and D. I have not made personally disparaging remarks about Trump voters. I don’t even call Trump names (you may feel free to search this entire blog for the entire time I’ve been here, you won’t find one).

    However, I do appreciate your assessment of my age and your honesty in how you think I should vote. Thank you for your honesty.

    Nic (896fdf)

  267. @261 I have never had to hold my nose when I voted even if I had to vote for right in candidate. The closest I came was 1992 when I would have voted for bubba out of ignorance of him. Fortunetly I was in jail and couldn’t vote!

    asset (e9bf5e)

  268. “Sam Bankman-Fried, the CEO of crypto exchange company FTX, and the second biggest donor to the Democrat party, is in hot water as his company is in financial freefall with over $1 billion missing.

    According to Fortune, “30-year-old Bankman-Fried has been a major force in Democratic politics, ranking as the party’s second-biggest individual donor in the 2021–2022 election cycle.”

    Bankman-Fried made donations to the Dems that totaled $39.8 million, putting him behind George Soros and his $128 million in donations.

    He had even promised to spend more money on Dems in the future, saying he could go “north of $100 million” with a “soft ceiling” of $1 billion for the 2024 elections.

    Bankman-Fried was a significant donor to Biden in 2020. He’s the largest financial contributor to the Protect Our Future PAC, “the political action committee which endorsed Democratic candidates such as Peter Welch, who this week won his bid to become Vermont’s next senator, and Robert J. Menendez of New Jersey, who secured a House seat.”

    Bankman-Fried had his net worth go from $15.6 billion to $1 billion in “the biggest one-day collapse it had ever seen among billionaires.”

    It is expected that Bankman-Fried will go bankrupt in the face of a liquidity crunch and the abrupt change in financial status.

    Reuters reports that FTX lost at least $1 billion of customer funds and that the money “vanished” casing federal regulators to look into the company. The investigation is to determine the extent of harm to clients and what laws FTX may have broken.

    Jordan Schachtel tweeted, “Sam Bankman-Fried attempted to monopolize an entire industry and deploy it into the hands of the ruling class. His Ponzi blew up spectacularly after a successfully executed speculative attack. The demise of FTX should be a cause for celebration.”

    REVEALED: CEO of cratering crypto firm FTX is Dems’ second largest donor, behind Soros

    https://thepostmillennial.com/revealed-ceo-of-cratering-crypto-firm-ftx-is-dems-second-largest-donor-behind-soros

    Obudman (a1c23a)

  269. The Sheriff’s race is the other big election in Los Angeles County. It would be unprecedented for a incumbent Sheriff to lose an election.

    It didn’t matter, as the county passed a new provision allowing the sheriff to be fired. Now the “elected” sheriff will serve at the pleasure of the Board of Supervisors.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  270. It didn’t matter, as the county passed a new provision allowing the sheriff to be fired. Now the “elected” sheriff will serve at the pleasure of the Board of Supervisors.

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/12/2022 @ 6:14 pm

    Dubious constitutionality.

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  271. CNN Projects Laxalt loses; Ds keep control of Senate.

    Attaboy, McConnell.

    DCSCA (b0dff6)

  272. Why should I or people like me vote for the Rs in the next election?

    Not sure why you should. Your income depends on growing government. When you say “works in education” instead of “teaches” one infers that you are part of the blob and not part of the classroom, so of course you need the blob to grow.

    Not sure that all “single young women” demand abortion. Some do of course. Some single young men want free booze and fast cars. But not all. Many women, I am sure, view abortion as a particularly sloppy method of birth control and take some great pains to avoid having to resort to that. But since you live in California I cannot for the life of me understand why this matters to you. Not only is there nothing in CA to fix, but even changing the Supreme Court will take decades at best, and the Democrat Party’s concern there is mostly in raising funds (just as the GOP’s was until lighting struck).

    As far as the “wh0re” thing, well, incels do as incels do. Mostly they’re upset they aren’t getting any. Not my kind of pal.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  273. Georgia now less of a pressure point; but still important.

    Manchin is in the Catbird Seat again; what CAN Senate R’s offer him to flip– especially now that Joey has peed in his coffee one time too many.

    DCSCA (b0dff6)

  274. Attaboy, McConnell.

    McConnell? He’s not the guy who selected morons, assh0les and lickspittles to run.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  275. @270 Fortunately AOC doesn’t depend of donor class and sean patrick maloney who does has already lost! Laxalt hand picked by cocain mitch goes down to defeat. Rethugs will probably for $$$ re-elect him.

    asset (e9bf5e)

  276. Nic,

    Why would you vote for Trump? I have declined that privilege 4 times now.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  277. @276. He’s the sitting Minority Leader. He’s in charge.

    DCSCA (b0dff6)

  278. @274 decades? Maybe not. Only half of generation Z is of voting age. In az 100 latinx turn 18 every day if you include dreamers 120 a day. Most hating rethugliKKKans. It only takes one more democrat in senate to end fillibuster and pack supreme court.

    asset (e9bf5e)

  279. Yeah, DJT fights. But does he win? He could, if he didn’t act like a child. But here we are again.

    Simon Jester (710d16)

  280. I cannot wait to hear the excuses.

    Simon Jester (710d16)

  281. @282. You needn’t wait. They’re already here (@273). It was Mitch’s fault, dontcha know.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  282. @kevin@274 I’m a lower level site based admin type that does direct student support in schools, student small group learning, plus curriculum, scheduling, at-risk student identification and support (child-find), transition support between school levels, parent communication, data and stats, etc. (plus subbing as needed). I work with everyone at a school-site, basically and I do a lot of the not-directly-in-the-classroom work with students, parents, and staff. The last few years my age group has been grades 6-9. I don’t know if that makes me part of the blob or not.

    In CA it doesn’t really matter if I vote pro-choice or not, but I’ve lived (a number of) other places as well and, while I don’t generally think abortion is usually the best idea, I don’t think it’s my place to tell someone else how to deal with their pregnancy.

    As for the “young”, well, as I said, I appreciate JF’s assessment of my possible age. 😛

    @Kevin@278 Oh, I won’t be voting for Trump, not Desantis or Abbott either. A different R, maybe, but not any of those 3.

    Nic (896fdf)

  283. Rare Buddy Holly poster from “The Day the Music Died” sells for record-breaking $447,000 at auction

    The rarest and only known Buddy Holly poster from “The Day the Music Died,” when an airplane carrying Holly, Richie Valens and the Big Popper (sic) (real name J.P. Richardson) crashed and killed all three, sold at auction for a record-breaking $447,000.
    …….
    The poster is an original advertisement window card memorializing the show that never was (at Moorehead, Minnesota), and one of the first tragedies in rock and roll history. It had originally been stuck to a telephone pole, but had fallen to the ground a day or two after the show and was picked up by a maintenance man who took it home and placed it in a closet where it was forgotten about for about 50 years…….

    The poster has no pin or nail holes, missing parts or fading, but does show a white stain on both sides from the sticky substance used to hang it up……..

    ………(T)he previous record for a rock poster…….was $275,000 for a print from the Beatles’ 1966 show at Shea Stadium.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (350da4)

  284. @270 Fortunately AOC doesn’t depend of donor class and sean patrick maloney who does has already lost! Laxalt hand picked by cocain mitch goes down to defeat. Rethugs will probably for $$$ re-elect him.

    asset (e9bf5e) — 11/12/2022 @ 6:28 pm

    You’re aware, aren’t you, that there’s a wing even further left than yours that says the same things about AOC, Bernie et al, that you do about the Clinton/Obama/Biden establishment?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  285. In CA it doesn’t really matter if I vote pro-choice or not, but I’ve lived (a number of) other places as well and, while I don’t generally think abortion is usually the best idea, I don’t think it’s my place to tell someone else how to deal with their pregnancy.

    I am not utterly opposed, either. I have, once, advised a young woman (whom I was not involved with) to get an abortion as her life was on a knife-edge without that added. I don’t know what she did.

    Personally, I accept 1st trimester elective abortions as a necessary evil. But I want a reasonable time limit on it. I’d settle with whatever law they have in, say, France or England. But the two sides seem to be “None never ever” and “good thru 9 months.” A pox on both their houses.

    The real problem I have with the “blob” is that far too much money never gets to the kids. I mostly blame the US D of Ed, and the many bureaucratic layers this engenders, and not just in public schools. Even private universities are affected. What you are doing … hmmm … I was pretty lost in high school and maybe some of that would have helped.

    Mostly tweaking the “educator” and not “teacher” thing. In my world, front line folks would be paid more than back-office folks but it never seems to work that way.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  286. nic – First, I appreciate your comments here, especially your willingness to answer questions.

    But I think you may be selling yourself short in some recent answers. In my voting decisions, I try to vote for people and issues that I think will be best for the nation, which isn’t necessarily best for me.

    For example, retired people like me are often better off when unemployment is high. There’s little risk of inflation, and we get better service when we shop. But high unemployment is lousy for people just starting out, especially those who have a high school education, or less. So, I worry more about unemployment than I do about inflation.

    And I support politicians who try, intelligently, to improve our schools, even though that has little effect on me personally. (The last three real Republican presidents: Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush all did that, with varying degrees of success.)

    And I would like to see our nation do more for people like Seraphine Warren.

    Judging by your comments here, I think you might agree with me, on at least some of those thoughts.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  287. You seem quite upset at some of the things Republican voters have been called. I’m a single, highly educated professional woman who works in education, which means that the Republican party (and sometimes you) has called people like me baby-killing, child grooming wh0res married to the federal government. And then expressed surprise when single women voted overwhelmingly for Democrats in the last election and helped make the red wave into something that could be easily absorbed by a menstrual product. Why should I or people like me vote for the Rs in the next election?

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/12/2022 @ 5:06 pm

    Dead babies are more important than living ones. Gotcha.

    NJRob (ba8f28)

  288. @kevin@289 Way too much education money goes to the District Office in public schools. I’m approaching 20 years in my district and the student body size has remained about the same, as has the student/teacher hiring ratio (how many teachers you hire per number of students, which effects average class size- at the secondary level average class size is about the hiring ratio X 1.2), while the DO has more than doubled over the time I’ve worked here. Most districts aren’t even talking about class size reduction any more (which was a big talking point on funding 15-20 years ago) so most secondary classes can run up to 35/36 students, which is too many. I would agree that when a lot of money is spent on off-site admin, the students aren’t getting the benefit.

    @Jim@290 I was mostly curious what other people would say. My actual vote generally varies depending on what I think the country needs at any given time and whether or not a candidate seems to know anything. I also find it useful when a candidate says something other than the party talking points. One of my votes this time was for an R that actually addressed the local needs in his flyer, rather than just repeating the current party rhetoric.

    @NJRob@291 Charming. Also no answer I notice.

    Nic (896fdf)

  289. I won’t be voting for Trump, not Desantis or Abbott either. A different R, maybe, but not any of those 3.

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/12/2022 @ 6:49 pm

    Then you aren’t a “moderate.” Because moderates and Democrats voted for DeSantis akd Abbott in droves.

    NJRob (ba8f28)

  290. Nic (896fdf) — 11/12/2022 @ 7:32 pm

    You’re a lefty from Cali that thinks you are a moderate because everyone around you talks like asset does. No thanks. You want to destroy the nation as fast as asset does just with more diction.

    NJRob (ba8f28)

  291. What a horrible comment Rob.

    AJ_Liberty (15d88c)

  292. @NJRob@293/294 It isn’t personal. Desantis and Abbott are both bad for my professional life and for non-typical kids, maybe for some typical ones as well. And they both seem to be too into silly stunting.

    There are plenty of evangelicals where I am. I’m also not actually from California. I live in Cali, but I grew up on various military bases. In California, I’m fairly conservative. In Kansas, I’d be considered a liberal. In purple states I’m a moderate.

    I notice that you still didn’t answer the question, just had more unkind things to say. Though I do appreciate that you think I’m well-spoken.

    Nic (896fdf)

  293. DCSCA,

    There were quality candidates in Arizona and New Hampshire available. And former Senator Perdue was readying himself for a redo here in Georgia. But none of these candidates ran for Senate because None of them wanted to deal with Trump’s opposition. (Trump thought Perdue would beat Kemp. He didn’t.)

    If you want to blame Mitch — your business. But it seems a lot of your fellow populists are blaming your orange guy.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  294. You want to destroy the nation as fast as asset does just with more diction.

    NJRob (ba8f28) — 11/12/2022 @ 7:38 pm

    Yes. Nic has always given me the impression that she wants to destroy the nation. 🙄

    norcal (a1f318)

  295. My mother made an observation long ago that has resonated with me. She said both sides of the political divide want the same thing. They just differ on how to get there. I think she’s right.

    For example, both sides want peace. Democrats tend to think that peace comes through diplomacy and better understanding of foreign countries, while Republicans want a big, powerful military.

    Both sides want prosperity. Democrats think that government has a large role to play in taxing corporations and rich people, and redistributing the wealth. They also want a big safety net for those who don’t buy health insurance and don’t save for retirement.

    Republicans think that free markets and low taxes help everyone, even if the results are uneven, and that people who work harder and smarter deserve to be richer without being punished by confiscatory taxation. They also believe in more individual responsibility when it comes to purchasing health insurance and building up a retirement nest egg.

    It is so wrong to think of the other side as “evil” or “the enemy”. Both sides mean well.

    It’s like mom and dad discussing what is best for their child. They both love the child, but differ on what approach should be taken. Perhaps mom thinks the child needs softness and love, while dad believes in toughness and discipline. Neither of them wants to “destroy” the child.

    norcal (a1f318)

  296. @297. Appalled, McConnell is the sitting GOP Minority Leader in government getting the paycheck, allocating financing to his party candidates and in charge. Not Trump. He’s not even in elected office. And remember, no broad party support, no Trump. The lackluster results are all on McConnell. He is in charge. And it is precisely the efforts to defer or spin accountability away from the responsible party and government officials that keeps watering the roots of populism.

    DCSCA (dd9ebd)

  297. @Yeah I know and they say that about bernie too! Someone yelled at her for voting for aid to ukraine. Left has a big tent. As will rodgers said I am not a member of any organized political party I am a democrat! The fringe is always there some times I am one of them. AOC is slowly taking control of democrat party trying to oust NY democrat chairman right now. The left opposed hillary ;but she still got more votes then trump just in the wrong states.

    asset (27f33b)

  298. @297 I haven’t seen many populists blaming trump ;but I have seen a lot of conservatives of the donor and media class who had to hide their animosity to trump now attacking trump. As deep throat said in watergate follow the money! Populists know trump is a friend and conservatives economic libertarian free traders who want more cheap immigrant labor their enemy.

    asset (27f33b)

  299. I don’t want to destroy america. I want liberty and justice for all not just the rich and powerful. All my life I have fought to change ameriKKKa into America. I grew up a poor okie part native american and saw how poor people around me were treated. I fought back as hard as I could even though I rarely won. I just keep on fighting like Bernie Sanders and AOC. We are populists on the left.

    asset (27f33b)

  300. asset

    wgat you want is other peoples money…

    EPWJ (650a62)

  301. Both sides want prosperity. Democrats think that government has a large role to play in taxing corporations and rich people, and redistributing the wealth

    Gosh, maybe your mom should go get a job… Instead of wanting my hard earned money

    You too norcal

    EPWJ (650a62)

  302. https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/11/over-50-percent-of-companies-discriminate-against-white-men-in-hiring-survey-finds/

    No surprise. Any company that has mandated “diversity” is just a euphemism for get rid of the white guy.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  303. Wow, NJRob is being even nastier to people then usual. The midterm results must be making him extra bitter.

    Time123 (181d16)

  304. Did any of the “stop the steal / blood and soil / Dems are groomers” populist types win outside of the safest seats? I’m reading that boebert might go to a recount.

    I wonder how long the GOP will tie itself to a losing coalition?

    Time123 (181d16)

  305. EPWJ: “Gosh, maybe your mom should go get a job… Instead of wanting my hard earned money”

    Way to completely miss the point of norcal’s comment.

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  306. Time,

    Thanks for the kind remarks.

    NJRob (551df5)

  307. https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2022/11/12/the-battle-over-a-100-hand-count-in-arizona-pulls-back-the-mask-n510334

    Some day, perhaps even sometime this year if we’re lucky, when election officials in Arizona finally find someone capable of mastering preschool mathematics and they finish counting their ballots, we may know the outcome of the 2022 midterm elections. But that day is not today, my friends. They are somehow still flummoxed by the task of gathering up hundreds of thousands of ballots and feeding them into machines of dubious efficacy. Meanwhile, a different set of election supervisors appears to be ready to move forward with a hand count of nearly all of the ballots. Those officials are facing threats from state Democrats, however. The liberals have gone to court and obtained an order to forbid any such action, though the ruling seems to defy the state’s election laws. But even under the ominous threat of criminal charges, the group of election “radicals” appears to be ready to start the count as early as this weekend.

    Leftists want every vote to count till it’s time to actually count the votes.

    NJRob (551df5)

  308. Did any of the “stop the steal / blood and soil / Dems are groomers” populist types win outside of the safest seats? I’m reading that boebert might go to a recount.
    I wonder how long the GOP will tie itself to a losing coalition?
    Time123 (181d16) — 11/13/2022 @ 5:34 am

    “Scoreboard!” says nevertrump, who still has 0 points

    JF (25fac6)

  309. “I just keep on fighting like Bernie Sanders and AOC. We are populists on the left.”

    Like many malcontents on the Left, Sanders, now 81yrs old, has no practical understanding of how wealth is created. Not only has Sanders never run a business, met a payroll, or navigated all of the regulations that he blithely imposes, he has little to no practical experience in the private sector AT ALL (his pre-government resume reads like a collection of odd jobs supplemented by unemployment). No wonder his solution to everything is government. It’s all he has ever known.

    He was fortunate enough to go to the University of Chicago, earning a BA in political science, yet came away with no career, apparently just a bunch of socialist propaganda that he was eventually able to spin in Vermont. He’s milked that government cow for the past 40 years and, in the process has accomplished little in terms of actual legislation (fortunately). AOC is following in his footsteps. She too understands the grift. The solution is always confiscating other people’s money. Predictably boring.

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  310. norcal (a1f318) — 11/12/2022 @ 11:14 pm

    Well said.

    felipe (484255)

  311. AJ_Liberty (84b9b1) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:55 am

    i think you confused Sanders with Biden

    JF (25fac6)

  312. AJ_Liberty (84b9b1) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:03 am

    I guess that wanting more of other people’s money is somehow a peaceful thoughtful thing –

    Maybe you need to get a job, start a company – put everything on the line – so norcals mom can have deep thoughts of income confiscation…

    So peaceful wanting to take whats mine, gosh I’m so unreasonable to want to keep MY money

    EPWJ (650a62)

  313. Politcs has made Bernie Sanders a millionaire, with three houses.

    (He gets annoyed when asked aobut his wealth. And in recent years he has switched from talking about millionairers to talking about evil billionaires.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  314. EPWJ, norcal’s mom’s point is not that she wants to take your money, but that people of goodwill can have different solutions to complex problems. And that they shouldn’t be accused of purposefully wanting to destroy America because of that. Everyone wants safe neighborhoods, plentiful jobs, enough income, good schools, a stable world, and time to enjoy your family, friends, and hobbies. We should look at each other first and foremost in that way,

    Yes, we have differences about the size and scope of government, but it shouldn’t prevent us from talking productively to one another. Is there a low-income class of people left behind in our economy or lower-middle-class families living from paycheck to paycheck? Is day-care, health care, and the prospects of college expensive for a quarter or more of Americans? Is cutting taxes and racking up debt the only political solution to our ills? If your financially set, is it fine to just look away or tell someone less fortunate to go learn how to code?

    Globalization is not going back into the bottle. Life expectancy is not going to fall back to the 60’s. Another world war is not likely going to make us the sole manufacturing powerhouse again. Totalitarian regimes must be opposed. Technology marches forward changing our lives mostly for the better but sometimes with negative side effects. We need to listen honestly to each other and be honest brokers of compromise.

    Many here reflexively argue that liberals can’t be trusted and unload every possible epithet. The same goes on against conservatives elsewhere. None of it ends in a good place. Our politicians reflect our angst and that’s currently not healthy. We drive good people out of politics who see the whole thing as pointless. Step 1 is to dial back the ideological rigidity. Move much of politics back to the local level instead of nationalizing every burp and tittle. Recognize that some problems are difficult and complex, and evade bumper sticker truisms and indignant self-righteousness. And for gosh sakes insist on good, smart, experienced people for our leaders, instead of braying ass-es committed to breaking everything. This should be about proven ideas not personalities.

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  315. Few weeks, ago, a lot of the commenters here were saying that nevertrumpers failing to praise Desantis was proof they were just democrats.

    My complaint about Trump for years has been that he’s really a democrat, his caricature of a republican is shallow, and his policy performance reflects his adoration of Hillary Clinton. And now that Trump is trashing Desantis harder than Mitt Romney ever did, I guess Trump’s fans here are forgetting their own test.

    The GOP is falling apart, but it opposes a party that’s truly radical, taking full advantage of the times to go nuts on destroying public safety, socialist vote buying on student loans, etc. The GOP’s best friend is the democrat activist, same as the democrat’s best friend is Trump.

    We all need to pause and think about why we have loyalty to politicians. Any of them. Trump is just a very convenient lesson and example of why.

    Until Team R gets it together, Biden will have a Senate and appoint lots and lots of judges. Trump took away his only legitimate accomplishment on the judiciary by refusing to be a team player on the GOP senate. I’d say Mitch McConnell did the same, even though he superficially tried very hard to win senate seats, there is no reason for him to lead anymore.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  316. I won’t be voting for Trump, not Desantis or Abbott either. A different R, maybe, but not any of those 3.

    I might vote for DeSantis, but not the other two. I would like the Trump candidacy to be spiked asap, so that others can enter the race. There IS a deep GOP bench, but the orange buffoon’s toxicity drives everyone out.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  317. Then you aren’t a “moderate.” Because moderates and Democrats voted for DeSantis akd Abbott in droves.

    Neither one of those candidates is a moderate. Abbot is a bit more Trumpist than DeSantis. That moderates voted for them means nothing. Binary choice.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  318. All my life I have fought to change ameriKKKa into America.

    It’s really easy: just change your outlook on life. Most of what you dislike is colored by your viewpoint. Acceptance of what is, is the key to a happy life.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  319. To recover, the GOP needs not only to rid itself of Trump, but rid itself of the stink of Trump. They need to start by, as a party, accepting the election of 2020 and denouncing the January 6th insurrection. Until they can do that, they will continue to diminish. At some point they will become irrelevant and a new party will replace them.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  320. Jesus has returned.
    Hallelujah!!

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  321. Dustin,

    DeSantis the veener of that cult thing a bit, naybe im too sensitive but he needs to focus, announce, and go for it. Waiting isnt leadership, does the rhetoric match the deeds…

    EPWJ (90048f)

  322. the demokkkrats lose their sugar daddy, except you wouldn’t know it from media reports

    If the House flips to Republicans, Rep. Patrick McHenry, the current GOP committee ranking member, will likely become the chairman. The Crypto Innovation PAC, which is financed in part by a separate group that saw millions in donations from Bankman-Fried, backed McHenry’s successful 2022 reelection campaign. The FTX CEO donated more than $30 million toward the 2022 midterms, according to Federal Election Commission records.

    oh yeah, I guess he was a big republican donor. LOL

    he was holed up in nassau all this time he was funding demokkkrats, evading US taxes and US laws, but now having bankrolled the left and the election safely over, the feds are putting their foot down

    what timing

    he hopes to make it to Dubai where there is no extradition

    I’m sure the Biden DOJ is leaving no stone unturned LOL

    JF (25fac6)

  323. @297. They’re not. Royalists are; the “establishment” parasites entrenched in both parties. Schumer/Pelosi-types aren’t keen on populists; nor are McConnell/McCarthy-types. It scares them. Neither really want their comfy castle stormed, regardless of if it has a red or blue flag is flying. So deflection and deference of any responsibility for blowing any grand opportunity is expected– but it is all on them.

    DCSCA (dba9e4)

  324. DeSantis is fine for Florida, and Abbott fine for Texas, but they’re both defined by Trump. “Okay, that’s nice, you’re both better than Trump, but who isn’t?”

    nk (ba1559)

  325. See.

    NeverTrump is just going to switch to Never”whoever is conservative” because they want a RINO and not a conservative.

    NJRob (e91112)

  326. If anyone can feel sorry for some rich jerkoff who has always reaped where he has not sown and and garnered where he has not winnowed, I would feel sorry for Elon Musk. He is beset from all sides, including people still inside Twitter, and all he has on his side are a relative handful of kooks who did not like Twitter’s previous management.

    nk (ba1559)

  327. It’s hard to argue with 17 country clubs on whether Trump is a Republican, but Republican has only sporadically meant conservative, and certainly not when it comes to Trump.

    nk (ba1559)

  328. Lest you forget:

    Republicans will regain House majority, pick up 40 seats in midterm elections, Rep. McCaul predicts 4/24/22

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-house-regain-majority-midterm-elections-rep-mccaul

    A party leadership run by fvck-ups. Dump them. Or, as the broad majority of GOP party membership would echo:

    “You’re fired.” — Donald Trump

    DCSCA (6076e7)

  329. “Scoreboard!” says nevertrump, who still has 0 points

    What does that even mean? What game are you playing, tiddlywinks? Or pocket pool? Because we’re not interested.

    nk (ba1559)

  330. I have a buddy whose Republican wife intensely dislikes DeSantis. Bottom line, what sells in Florida and Texas may not win the day in swing states. I think team DeSantis probably understands this….but they did need a decisive win in Florida to enhance his gravitas. They have it. Now they have to craft an image that can win nationally. He cannot be seen next to high-schoolers bullying them about wearing masks. Not a good look. Anti-immigration sells to a country that doesn’t want chaos at its border. “Don’t Say Gay” bills is a tougher sell to middle-class moms that have moved on from the 1990’s. Yes, culture issues are the life-blood of the current base…along with election integrity, but we just saw an election cycle where that likely cost the GOP control of the Senate and is making the House unnecessarily close. The party needs to find a comfortable tone that doesn’t make it seem like DeSantis is running to be President of the Red States of America. We’ll see. It’s good that neither he nor Youngkin have taken the recent Trump troll bait. The fat-Elvis routine is slapping up against the reality of a tide of liberal judges getting through the Senate. Folks here can try and tag that on McConnell, but most know better. They see who pushed whom.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  331. If an ex-Republican prefers Biden to DeSantis, they might be a Democrat. Some of these people have just switched parties, and that’s okay, I guess. The Bush era party (which they apparently long for?) was not particularly successful, even if the Trump era party has not been successful, either.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  332. The Bush era party (which they apparently long for?) was not particularly successful. . .

    During Bush’s era the GOP picked up seats in both the House and Senate during his first mid-term. Won reelection, including a majority of the popular vote, picking up three House seats and four Senate seats. Yes, they got hammered in the 2006 midterms, but compared to Clinton losing both houses of Congress in 1994 and Obama losing the House in 2010 (both two years into their respective first terms), I daresay that the Bush coalition was the most successful one in at least the last half-century.

    JVW (15c733)

  333. I daresay that the Bush coalition was the most successful one in at least the last half-century.
    JVW (15c733) — 11/13/2022 @ 11:55 am

    only if you attribute the 2008 disaster to McCain, which I don’t

    the Great Recession is on Bush’s ledger

    JF (25fac6)

  334. The fat-Elvis routine

    Nailed it.

    Dana (1225fc)

  335. AJ,

    Just say you want leftist social policy to go with not paying taxes. It’ll go easier. It’s also not going to happen because someone needs to pay for the destructive social policies that the mindset creates. Life of Julia.

    It’s why Libertarianism is fringe.

    NJRob (1c8f20)

  336. This ongoing effort to paint everything as a black-and-white, binary issue is tiresome. The hard right does it with politics, social issues, religion, and probably ice cream flavors too. This playing god is a rigid and myopic way to view life and people, when in fact, people are much more complex and nuanced than that. Its goal is to reduce people to be like little automatons programmed to choose only X or Y. It’s like living in a blinkered cage where only the right people are in the cage with you. Everyone outside the cage is bad, evil, or losers.

    Dana (1225fc)

  337. Actually, Dana, I think it’s darn nice of them to admit DeSantis into their tip of the horseshoe. Nine days ago, Ron De Sanctimonious was still on the other side of the binary. The rest of us, of course, still remain “The Left”. Of them.

    nk (27bb34)

  338. No Dana, it’s the falseness that bothers me. I held my nose and dealt with Bush’s “compassionate conservativism” that expanded government policy on education, let him create a dept of homeland security. I supported and voted for Romney and McCain even though they were weak on border and economic issues as well as wishy washy when it came to social policy. But when the shoe is on the other foot it’s suddenly a bridge too far for the “moderate wing.”

    They won’t support conservative policies, but demand we support their milk-toast policies of gradual leftism. No thanks. That’s over. They showed the big tent only goes in one direction.

    NJRob (1c8f20)

  339. “Just say you want leftist social policy to go with not paying taxes. It’ll go easier.”

    You’re so melodramatic Rob…and black and white. You’re the anti-thesis of a big-tent kinda guy….in fact, more of a tent-for-one kinda guy. When the GOP social agenda focuses on personal responsibility and the family, I’m right there. When the GOP drifts into “gays should be celibate and unmarried” territory, then I tend to shake my head and say that religious dogma doesn’t make for practical policy in a pluralistic society. When some in the GOP advocate for no rape and incest exceptions to abortion bans, despite the electorate endorsing both overwhelmingly, I again shake my head and think it ain’t very smart. It’s hard to be persuasive…and change hearts… when you fail to listen to the voters.

    I think BLM is misguided, but don’t lose sleep that they peacefully march and have their say. I laugh at hyper-politically-correct people and think the cancel culture is pernicious, so I steer clear and live my own life. CRT was manufactured outrage that resulted in a lot of questionably-framed legislation. I’m no fan of monuments coming down for dumb reasons or military bases getting renamed, but think local people can make those decisions without my interference. The culture war should also be about how we treat each other, with dignity and respect. And how we communicate with one another, with courtesy and good humor. I’ve never convinced someone of my point of view by getting up into their face and insulting them. The key is to think about what is persuasive and what is toxic to the conversation. I get that you want to “win”…bad enough that you are willing to jettison people that are with you on 90% of the issues…it just seems like a losing strategy.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  340. @EPJW: If you’d stop bashing norcal’s mom long enough, I bet you’ll be surprised to learn what her actual politics are. You might try asking him. I’m not sure I’d answer that question politely from someone who just smeared my mom, but I get the feeling norcal is a better person than I am.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  341. @344. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 11/13/2022 @ 2:18 pm

    This.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  342. I daresay that the Bush coalition was the most successful one in at least the last half-century

    Bush didn’t pass any significant conservative legislation, and when Bush left office, the GOP had 40 (!) Senate seats and 178 House seats. It is the reason that the Democrats were able to pass all sorts of legislation. These losses, especially in the Senate in 2006, were the result of the Iraq war disaster.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  343. @EPJW: If you’d stop bashing norcal’s mom long enough, I bet you’ll be surprised to learn what her actual politics are. You might try asking him. I’m not sure I’d answer that question politely from someone who just smeared my mom, but I get the feeling norcal is a better person than I am.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/13/2022 @ 2:24 pm

    I was both amused and gratified by EPJW’s comment. Amused by what he took away from it (Rorschach test, anyone?), and gratified that I approached what Patterico has described as true political understanding–to argue the other side’s point in such a way that it is indistinguishable from somebody who truly is on the other side.

    It surprised me that EPJW ascribed such a position to my mother, although, in his defense, all my mother said was the general statement about both sides wanting the same things. The examples were from me, and I thought, if anything, I wasn’t being fair enough to the lefty point of view.

    So, it is me that EPJW is bashing. But, it’s still amazing how wrong he is about my politics. Anybody who has read me for a while knows I am anything but a redistribute-the-wealth kind of guy. I’ve never taken a government handout. No student loans or grants, either. Not even unemployment. I worked hard and smart, and invested like a demon so that I could retire early.
    I’m a blend of conservatism and libertarianism–a conservatarian, if you will.

    EPJW might be surprised to learn that my mother belongs to the John Birch Society, and has been a dues-paying member for 50 years. (There should be some kind of shrine for her at the JBS headquarters in Appleton, Wisconsin.) And yet, she is the sweetest person you will ever meet. She never lets political disagreements affect her relationships.

    norcal (a1f318)

  344. RINO

    This is a word that means nothing anymore. It used to mean a Democrat who was pretending to be a Republican (e.g. Kasich) until Trump came along and got away with the pretense.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  345. Trump is only conservative in the George Wallace sense of the word. He’s a hard-Left Hollywood writer’s caricature of a Republican.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  346. only if you attribute the 2008 disaster to McCain, which I don’t

    Romney would have won that election going away as he had the economic chops that McCain (and Obama) didn’t.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  347. Folks here can try and tag that on McConnell

    McConnell is one of the most astute members of the Senate. Of course, in the Trumpian era, when intelligence, experience and education are dirty words, maybe that doesn’t mean a lot.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  348. norcal,

    You’re trying to normalize stealing other people’s money – I clearly posted the comment in its context, and your own words (your mom my read end – moms don’t talk like that – not in our generation)

    Nice try, so why don’t you knock on your neighbors door and demand some money, cause he has nicer thiings than you – let us know what hospital your in so we can send flowers

    EPWJ (650a62)

  349. I get that you want to “win”…bad enough that you are willing to jettison people that are with you on 90% of the issues…it just seems like a losing strategy.

    It’s a third-party strategy. The Libertarian Party calls itself “the Party of Principle” and they are spot on about that. Of course they aren’t likely to win any elections in my lifetime, but they sure are pure on principle. I suspect the Greens are too, but I can’t separate the various leftist insanities, so I dunno..

    Kevin M (90f346)

  350. @344 AJ, very well said.

    Time123 (cae385)

  351. These losses, especially in the Senate in 2006, were the result of the Iraq war disaster.

    Well, one was the result of a corrupt DoJ prosecution.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  352. I won’t argue that it didn’t end badly for the Bush Administration, but with them we got nearly five years of unified control of Congress for the GOP. And as to this nonsense that he didn’t pass any meaningful conservative legislation, you might recall that there was an incident in September 2001 which kind of distracted everyone’s attention away from entitlement and tax reform. Perhaps you recall it? In any case, those five years were far better than Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, or Donald Trump ever got, since both of them lost a Congressional majority two years into their first term.

    JVW (15c733)

  353. Bush didn’t pass any significant conservative legislation, and when Bush left office, the GOP had 40 (!) Senate seats and 178 House seats. It is the reason that the Democrats were able to pass all sorts of legislation. These losses, especially in the Senate in 2006, were the result of the Iraq war disaster.

    mikeybates (dd20f5) — 11/13/2022 @ 2:44 pm

    Yeah, the Bush coalition wasn’t any more successful than the Trump one was, and they had 4 extra years to show their stuff; 12 total if you count his dad. The 94 red wave was largely due to Democrat disgust with legislation like DADT, leading to lower turnout, while the Tea Party gains were populist in nature and rooted in voter bipartisan anger over TARP.

    The Bush coalition was always wildly successful at fundraising and being controlled opposition, but even Dick Cheney ended up misapplying the lessons he learned from John Boyd towards DC slapfights, rather than energizing conservatives to become more involved in local government institutions at the grassroots like school boards and state legislators, which is where the political farm systems are built. A big reason DeSantis is being taken so seriously as a Presidential candidate now, is because in four years he took a state that epitomized Election Night ballot count dysfunction for nearly 20 years, and locked things down to the point that elections could be called withing about an hour of the primetime TV period beginning. I guarantee pretty much every GOP governor and state legislature is asking his team what he did to prevent Arizona-style delays for two election cycles in a row now.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  354. What I’m getting at is that say what you will, George Bush and Karl Rove knew how to build a winning coalition and even how to expand the party during a mid-term election (and yeah, I know that the Global War on Terror changed the political landscape a great deal that year, but that doesn’t change the fact that the GOP crafted a winning message). Clinton/Morris, Obama/Plouffe, and Trump/Bannon were never able to do that. Biden/Klain appears to have moderate success, but not to the degree that Bush/Rove did.

    JVW (15c733)

  355. Kevin,

    People who use “RINO” as an epithet evince an insufficient understanding of politics. They fail to realize that so-called RINOs are just a reflection of where the voters are. They get so angry by what they see as a continual parade of Republicans who just aren’t conservative enough. Is it some diabolical conspiracy where “RINOs” are being shoved down people’s throats? Absolutely not. It’s that the majority of voters are not that conservative.

    These people need to realize that in order to win elections, politicians have to appeal to as many voters as possible, especially the independents. Look at the Goldwater example. He was hard right. Nobody would call him a RINO. Yes, he could win in the primaries, but was steamrolled in the general.

    Trump was a bit of an exception, but even he wasn’t hard right. Can you imagine Goldwater cozying up to Putin or Kim Jong-un? Never.

    (Trump had many good policy positions, but the way he went about effecting his policies was so inept and counterproductive. He ruined many things by involving himself in them. Thankfully, he farmed out the Supreme Court picks to the Federalist Society. Can you imagine how bad those picks would have been if he had made them himself?)

    The same thing is true on the left. Why did Biden win the primaries? Because he wasn’t as hard left as the others.

    If Republicans want somebody who isn’t a “RINO”, they must first change enough minds on a grassroots level so that “true” Republicans will have enough votes to win a general election.

    Politicians are just a reflection of where the voters are.

    norcal (a1f318)

  356. In any case, those five years were far better than Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, or Donald Trump ever got, since both of them lost a Congressional majority two years into their first term.

    JVW (15c733) — 11/13/2022 @ 3:23 pm

    But what exactly did we get out of it that was so awesome?

    9/11 was a watershed event, but what did they do with it that wasn’t anything other than transitory? NCLB?

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  357. norcal,

    You’re trying to normalize stealing other people’s money

    EPWJ (650a62) — 11/13/2022 @ 3:13 pm

    Nope. I was just portraying a position held by some on the left. That you would think I am on the left is hilarious.

    norcal (a1f318)

  358. Trump delivered conservative justices to uphold the constitution. Bush delivered the justice to uphold Obamacare and who tried to uphold Roe.

    NJRob (1c8f20)

  359. NJRob (1c8f20) — 11/13/2022 @ 3:40 pm

    That’s a good point, Rob. Did Bush farm out the choices to the Federalist Society? I don’t know. If he didn’t, then Trump bested him on that front.

    Unfortunately, Trump has sh*t all over his accomplishments by his behavior since the 2020 election.

    norcal (a1f318)

  360. I could not agree more with AJ @ 345. Well said.

    Dana (1225fc)

  361. Old DJT defense: “He fights.”

    New DJT question: “Fights whom?”

    Simon Jester (710d16)

  362. i look forward to nevertrump giving a primer on winning elections

    you’ll have to first try winning over voters rather than condescend to them, so good luck with that

    i think DeSantis and Youngkin understand that it helps them for Trump to run and thus continue to be a lightning rod

    cuz once he’s denied the nomination and gone, the gun sights will be trained on them by the same people who profess to want the GOP to just nominate someone sane

    regardless what the usuals seek to peddle here, none of you will be voting for DeSantis or Youngkin or anyone else the GOP might nominate in 2024

    so quit the BS

    JF (25fac6)

  363. New DJT question: “Fights whom?”

    Simon Jester (710d16) — 11/13/2022 @ 4:05 pm

    DeSantis and Youngkin, whom he sees as threats to himself America.

    norcal (a1f318)

  364. Wikipedia is not particularly friendly to George W. Bush, but does mention some things most would consider conservative:

    Upon taking office, Bush signed a major tax cut program and education reform bill, the No Child Left Behind Act. He pushed for socially conservative efforts such as the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act and faith-based initiatives.
    . . .
    During his second term, Bush reached multiple free trade agreements. He appointed John Roberts and Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. He sought major changes to Social Security and immigration laws, but both efforts failed in Congress.

    (Links omitted.)

    I would describe his tax cuts as “family friendly”.

    Bush’s immigration reform proposals were defeated by extremes on both ends, uniting against the middle. John McCain put some blame on Barack Obama for the defeat. (I believe that both extremes now would rather have the issue than a compromise that might actually alleviate the problem.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  365. i look forward to nevertrump giving a primer on winning elections

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, nevertrump has many Republican presidential wins they can point to. Trumpers have only one.

    norcal (a1f318)

  366. He appointed John Roberts and Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court.

    Yes. If Rob is going to bash Bush for Roberts, then he needs to credit him for Alito.

    norcal (a1f318)

  367. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, nevertrump has many Republican presidential wins they can point to. Trumpers have only one.
    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 4:13 pm

    yes, I forgot about Lincoln

    at the risk of pointing out the obvious…

    whoever you’re referring to, they won because voters who later became Trump voters held their noses and voted for them

    so, try again

    JF (25fac6)

  368. You answering this guy seriously, norcal? He’s saying that when you take your jacket to the cleaners to take out a stain, the cleaners have to put a new stain on it.

    nk (27bb34)

  369. NeverTrump is not a party. We never set out to buy Lady Liberty a new pair of underdrawers. Just to wash out the dingleberry in the pair she has.

    nk (27bb34)

  370. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, nevertrump has many Republican presidential wins they can point to. Trumpers have only one.
    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 4:13 pm

    The populist insurgency didn’t begin in the GOP until TARP was passed. Before that, the neocons had exactly three wins in 28 years after Reagan, only one of which was decisive, the other two highly controversial due to ballot-counting dysfunction in Florida, then Ohio. Hardly the “many” adjective being applied here.

    Also, pointing out what people here continue to ignore, YET AGAIN, Reagan’s ascendancy was absolutely not wanted, in any way, shape, or form, by the GOP’s Rockefeller wing. Reagan was part of the western, populist Goldwater wing that was considered way too conservative by both the press and the party’s establishment. Don’t believe me? This is from Collier’s yearbook from 1976, on the GOP primary, page 13:

    “He lambasted Ford for appointing an attorney general who favored gun control legislation and a secretary of labor who favored giving public employees the right to strike (FWO: he also appointed John Paul Stevens to the Supreme Court, who turned into a partisan arch-leftist by the time the 90s rolled around). He accused Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger of wanting to give away the Panama Canal. He labeled the president part of the tired old Washington establishment and said an outsider was needed to restore the people’s freedom.” (Emphasis mine)

    The simple fact is that the GOP’s voter base has been largely populist for about 60 years, and will only vote for the establishment candidate if they have no other choice, such as in 1976, 1996, 2000, 2008 and 2012. Ironically, McCain was buoyed in 2000 on a largely populist sentiment himself with his “Straight Talk Express,” until Rove stopped his campaign dead in its tracks with the allegation before the South Carolina primary that he had a black child out of wedlock. The Trump era is simply the latest episode in what has been a decades-long war between the party’s more populist voter base and its go-along-to-get-along leadership/lobbying establishment.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  371. You answering this guy seriously, norcal?

    I have no choice but to be serious, nk. Upthread, you made me laugh with this comment:

    Trump knows what he’s doing with the lowbrow cracks. Facing a primary, he needs a new crop of lowbrows. The drunks, the meth heads, the wife-beaters, the ex-cons … who heckled Cruz for him is 2016 and Biden in 2020 … their ranks are constantly being depleted by overdoses, cirrhosis, prison, morbid obesity, and general debilitation.

    Then you said you intended no humor with the comment.

    That’s cold, man.

    Here I am, busting my ass trying to be funny. Meanwhile, you can crack me up with zero effort.

    norcal (a1f318)

  372. Yes. If Rob is going to bash Bush for Roberts, then he needs to credit him for Alito.

    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 4:15 pm

    He tried to appoint Harriet Miers. Voters rebelled and he was forced to accept Alito.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  373. Here I am, busting my ass trying to be funny. Meanwhile, you can crack me up with zero effort.

    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 5:33 pm

    I think it’s notable that what’s making you laugh is nk’s elitist slagging of working-class GOP voters. Meanwhile, most of the college set could disappear overnight and not much of actual value would really be lost.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  374. Now you’ve got me worried, norcal. It’s one thing not to see the humor in something somebody else says, but not to see it in something I say?

    Maybe it was the lack of context? Regarding Cruz, I was talking about the imitation Blues Brothers who accosted him in Indiana about the Second Amendment. The only way not to have a gun in Indiana is to be a drunk, a doper, a wife-beater, or a felon. And regarding Biden, you remember the pickup paramilitary which ambushed the Biden campaign buses in Texas.

    nk (27bb34)

  375. regardless what the usuals seek to peddle here, none of you will be voting for DeSantis or Youngkin or anyone else the GOP might nominate in 2024
    so quit the BS

    It’s BS that a NeverTrumper like me wouldn’t vote for DeSantis or Youngkin. Both are fit for the job, and hinged. Trump is not.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  376. FWO,

    I don’t consider Reagan a populist. Rather, I view him as a conservative.

    Moreover, I don’t see it as populist versus establishment. I see it as conservatives versus moderates. Extremes, either left or right, will rarely win general elections.

    As for “establishment”, that is another one of those buzzword epithets similar to “RINO”.

    The “establishment” is merely the accumulated result of voter choices over time. Politicians do their utmost to please their constituents, because they want to be re-elected.

    Occasionally the voters don’t like the result of their prior choices, and thus begin to oppose it, without realizing that they caused it.

    Trump sensed this, and made a scapegoat out of the establishment in a very simplistic and cartoonish way.

    It’s more accurate to criticize the voters themselves for creating the “establishment” in the first place. But, of course, one won’t get elected that way.

    norcal (a1f318)

  377. The only way not to have a gun in Indiana is to be a drunk, a doper, a wife-beater, or a felon.

    LOL, and thank goodness for that, because that allowed Elisjsha Dicken to stop a mall shooter dead in his tracks, literally. And here I thought True and Honest Conservatives were all for constitutional carry; guess not if it means “those people” are able to exercise their right to self-defense.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  378. No, FWO, I was not slagging any working class person, voter, non-voter, GOP, Democrat, or otherwise. I was slagging Trump’s congenitally unemployable human detritus. The kind who invade the Capitol and the kind who tell the President of the United States “Let’s go Brandon!” when he calls to wish them Merry Christmas.

    nk (27bb34)

  379. “you’ll have to first try winning over voters rather than condescend to them, so good luck with that”

    I hazard to offer that most Trump skeptical commenters here would have voted for any of the 19 Republicans on the stage in 2016 (I only exclude Ben Carson who I didn’t think was qualified). My short list would have been full of governors, going across the political spectrum from Walker, Perry, and Jindal to Kasich and Bush. Yeah I would have even pulled the lever for old Ted when I still thought he had a conscience.

    My biggest qualification for President is that he/she be normal and inside the Overton Window; Don’t lie and show some respect for the office. The only place where I’ve grown is that I do want someone with the personality and confidence to start bringing us together as a people. Obama failed; Trump failed; Biden is oblivious.

    So, the above JF-challenge is just absolutely misplaced. It’s literally we are open to anyone-but-Trump, so winning over the party is hilariously irrelevant. Yes, I don’t want someone grousing about stolen elections and offering to pardon Jan 6th rioters, but I suspect that routine will leave with cult 45. The bigger question is whether those so deeply invested in clearing out the tent will be able to vote “normal” again. Though I suspect fear of losing again might change that….

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  380. Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/13/2022 @ 5:48 pm

    I agree with you regarding the college set.

    I disagree that working-class GOP voters are synonymous with drunks, the meth heads, the wife-beaters, and ex-cons.

    norcal (a1f318)

  381. That’s right, FWO. Conservatives do not want drunks, dopers, wife-beaters, and felons to own guns, much less carry them on their persons. Only fringe kooks do.

    nk (27bb34)

  382. I don’t consider Reagan a populist. Rather, I view him as a conservative.

    Moreover, I don’t see it as populist versus establishment. I see it as conservatives versus moderates. Extremes, either left or right, will rarely win general elections.

    But that’s not the reality of the conflict. Reagan was considered such a danger that John Anderson mounted an independent run in 1980 just like the Breakfast Sandwich did in 2016 and in Utah this year. Perot gained the support in 1992 of populist GOP voters who were frustrated with Bush, and a lot of Perot’s ideas were hardly conservative.

    The “establishment” is merely the accumulated result of voter choices over time…It’s more accurate to criticize the voters themselves for creating the “establishment” in the first place. But, of course, one won’t get elected that way.

    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 5:55 pm

    This is just buck-passing. The voters elected them with the understanding that they would work in the interest of the people who voted for them. When they don’t do that, the voters decide to look elsewhere. And the establishment/populist conflict can be traced back at least to the conflict between the Dewey/Rockefeller wing and the Taft wing in the mid-late 1940s. The former was literally called the Eastern Establishment.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  383. I’ve got your “college set” right here. My parents were both Teamsters. I was the third person in all my known lineage to go to college. The two before me were an uncle and an older cousin.

    nk (27bb34)

  384. Now you’ve got me worried, norcal. It’s one thing not to see the humor in something somebody else says, but not to see it in something I say?

    nk (27bb34) — 11/13/2022 @ 5:50 pm

    Huh? Either you’re being funny in a clever way I don’t understand, or there is a miscommunication here.

    I think you’re very funny, and I enjoy your humor.

    norcal (a1f318)

  385. No, FWO, I was not slagging any working class person, voter, non-voter, GOP, Democrat, or otherwise. I was slagging Trump’s congenitally unemployable human detritus. The kind who invade the Capitol and the kind who tell the President of the United States “Let’s go Brandon!” when he calls to wish them Merry Christmas.

    nk (27bb34) — 11/13/2022 @ 5:57 pm

    Your comment was nothing more than the same old snobbish pejoratives used against working class voters for decades now. It echoes the same hand-wringing about “anti-intellectualism” that college professors lament whenever the dumb ideas of their left-liberal brethren are resisted.

    Plenty of those individuals have college degrees, jobs, and military service. Calling them “congenitally unemployable human detritus just betrays your own prejudices.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  386. I’ve got your “college set” right here. My parents were both Teamsters. I was the third person in all my known lineage to go to college. The two before me were an uncle and an older cousin.

    nk (27bb34) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:06 pm

    Oooo, big wow. My family on both sides were blue-collar tradesmen, and I’m the first in my family to get a master’s degree. Your humblebragging doesn’t mean sh*t here, son. It’s clearly just embarrassment at your own background that causes you to compensate by slagging people who you think are less educated than you are.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  387. AJ_Liberty: “So, the above JF-challenge is just absolutely misplaced. It’s literally we are open to anyone-but-Trump, so winning over the party is hilariously irrelevant.”

    also AJ_Liberty: “CRT was manufactured outrage that resulted in a lot of questionably-framed legislation.”

    Youngkin won largely on this issue alone, and standing up to woke school boards.

    I’m not sure which AJ to believe, and I don’t think you’re sure either.

    JF (283483)

  388. The voters elected them with the understanding that they would work in the interest of the people who voted for them. When they don’t do that, the voters decide to look elsewhere.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:05 pm

    And that’s where I see it differently. The people in office seek to serve the interests of their voters, because they know they won’t be re-elected if they don’t.

    The problem is that the voters want contradictory things.

    For example, they want cheap produce, but no illegal immigration.

    They want low taxes, but no spending cuts. (Or, they want spending cuts, but at the expense of a program some other guy benefits from, not the program THEY benefit from.)

    They want law and order, but no prison built in their neighborhood.

    And on and on.

    The leaders try to accord them their wishes, but oftentimes they can only give them one side at the expense of the other. It’s a circle that cannot be squared.

    Too many voters want to have their cake and eat it, too. Because they can’t have it both ways, they began to complain about the “establishment”.

    All too often, there are no solutions. There are only tradeoffs.

    I agree that it’s buck passing. The voters are the ones passing the buck, when they really should be blaming themselves.

    norcal (a1f318)

  389. Oh, get back to me when you’ve signed a paycheck. Front or back.

    nk (27bb34)

  390. Blaming themselves for wanting it both ways

    norcal (a1f318)

  391. Oh, get back to me when you’ve signed a paycheck. Front or back.

    nk (27bb34) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:24 pm

    It’s got to be exhausting moving those goalposts around all the time, you pretentious snob.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  392. Now, now. No need to name-call.

    norcal (a1f318)

  393. In this unfortunate case, both nk and FWO are proven correct in their assertions about the J6er:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/illinois-man-pleaded-guilty-jan-190218211.html

    urbanleftbehind (ba1f92)

  394. And that’s where I see it differently. The people in office seek to serve the interests of their voters, because they know they won’t be re-elected if they don’t.

    The problem is that the voters want contradictory things.

    No, this isn’t the problem. The problem is politicians promising one thing and delivering another. That’s not on the voters, that’s on the politicians. They’re the ones trying to have their cake and eat it, too, not the voters. And then they act shocked when the voters decide they’ve had enough.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  395. Let’s not suggest that Trump is anti-Neocon, because Trump is anti-anyone-not-Trump. And let’s not confuse being obnoxious, irresponsible, undisciplined, and seat-of-your-pants with making measurable progress on issues of concern to most Republicans. Yes, Trump had the cajones to appoint only justices from the Federalist Society list and McConnell…more impressively… held his team…especially the Maine player…together. But by mishandling Covid and being a lout, Trump couldn’t hold serve while losing the House and almost single-handedly losing the Senate. He only cares about the GOP as it comes to serving and enabling himself. You can’t conserve anything if you can’t win.

    Getting important legislation passed is really hard…and without 60 GOP votes, takes skill to bring over the Manchins and Warners…and probably requires some horse-trading. Trump is toxic…he’s incapable of outreach. And if he’s looking to unilaterally take us out of NATO and off the Korean peninsula, he’s certifiable to boot. “Populist” here seems to be shorthand for every half-baked idea that spittles its way out of Talk Radio. Hey let’s just nuke the Iranians /sarc.

    Obama was historically fortunate in 2008….Trump is right that no Republican had a shot there. Then, Obama became popular enough to beat the better man in Romney….still not the fault of mainstream Republicans. What changed is that the GOP base got radicalized and enamored by the bad idea of a bull in the china shop. And here we sit with a mess that is supposedly the Neocons fault. The nature of Neoconism was changed by Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s just not Trump or Neocons. It’s a false choice….

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  396. The problem is politicians promising one thing and delivering another.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:30 pm

    And why do you think they do that? It’s because if one candidate tells the truth, and the other lies, and tells the voters what they want to hear, the voters will elect the liar. Every time.

    That’s on the voters.

    norcal (a1f318)

  397. AJ,

    You should be at The Dispatch. That is quality writing.

    norcal (a1f318)

  398. Has anybody seen the HBO miniseries “Mare of Easttown”? I finished watching it a few days ago. It was the best miniseries I’ve ever seen. Kate Winslet was just phenomenal, and I respect her for her willingness to look so unglamorous in the role.

    norcal (a1f318)

  399. “You should be at The Dispatch”

    Yeah I think FWO and JF agree with you

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  400. AJ,

    You should be at The Dispatch. That is quality writing.

    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:38 pm

    Until I got to the second sentence I thought it was JF or FWO ineffectually trying to insult him again.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  401. @404. Apparently I’m never going to learn to refresh before posting.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  402. norcal @ 404, yes, and I agree.

    Dana (1225fc)

  403. @402. LOL The Alamo welcomed volunteers- freely- too. 😉

    DCSCA (65db6f)

  404. “Populist” here seems to be shorthand for every half-baked idea that spittles its way out of Talk Radio. Hey let’s just nuke the Iranians /sarc.

    ‘Spittle’ spat the Royalist, safe behind the castle ramparts.

    As opposed to using nukes in Vietnam [as nuanced by AuH20) Or Ukraine? =sarc=

    Keep peeing in the populist coffee— and thereby watering its roots all the more– nd watch it keep growing and growing.

    https://www.history.com/topics/us-politics/populism-united-states-timeline

    Theodore Roosevelt whipped up a frenzy of populism in 1912. We’re still living with the consequences.

    https://www.latimes.com/books/reviews/la-ca-jc-cowan-people-rule-20160706-snap-story.html

    DCSCA (65db6f)

  405. “Keep peeing in the populist coffee— and thereby watering its roots all the more”

    Wait, populists drink pee and grow!? I think (hope?) you’re mixing metaphors.

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  406. Populism is merely an appeal to voters who are dissatisfied with what they’ve voted for in the past.

    Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

    norcal (a1f318)

  407. I think (hope?) you’re mixing metaphors.

    Either that or there’s a business opportunity screaming to be monetized.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  408. I started DVRing SNL and Chappelle was an interesting guest. His opening monologue was the longest I’ve seen on the show, and kind of brilliant, especially about how he said things about Jews in Hollywood in a manner that Kanye couldn’t do, and he mentioned that Herschel was “observably stupid”.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/saturday-night-live-dave-chappelle-monologue-herschel-walker-kanye-west-anti-semitism

    Paul Montagu (10fd02)

  409. And why do you think they do that? It’s because if one candidate tells the truth, and the other lies, and tells the voters what they want to hear, the voters will elect the liar. Every time.

    That’s on the voters.

    norcal (a1f318) — 11/13/2022 @ 6:35 pm

    What? This is the system we have, and it’s specifically designed to include as many adult age people as possible in the voting process.

    This is just baffling. I see all this stuff on here about election denialism and how important it is to preserve ARE DEMOCRACY, but when things go pear-shaped or those voters don’t support what’s expected of them, then the politicians don’t need to listen to “stupid voters” and just do whatever they think is best. Or it’s the VOTERS fault that things went bad? It’s the most imperious view of politics I’ve ever seen, and it’s driven entirely by self-importance. “It’s only democracy when the people vote the way we want them to vote” isn’t democracy. It treats the concept as a fetish, instead of a system of installing the leaders of a society and a broader civilization.

    In fact, you made the greatest argument AGAINST democracy with that statement, because you’re arguing that people will tend to prefer the politician who tells them what they want to hear in order to gain power. It’s why pure democratic societies tend to fail, because at some point hierarchies always establish themselves. In intensive democratic nations like the Pueblos or Plains tribes, if certain factions weren’t happy with how the village was being run, they would often up and leave to either start their own village, or find one that was more amenable to them. Utopian democracies like the Fourier communes all collapsed within just a few years.

    If that’s the case, what’s the point of preserving this system? Out of nostalgia? Why not just dispense with this game of pretend and formally establish the corporate/bureaucratic overclass as our de jure instead of our de facto leaders, instead of going through this dumb election drama every two years? We can be like imperial China where the country was run by the mandarins, and pretend that a figurehead has the mandate of heaven, rather than worry about whether local election officials are going to certify the actual election results or not.

    If you want democracy, this is part of the package.

    Populism is merely an appeal to voters who are dissatisfied with what they’ve voted for in the past.

    No, that’s not what populism is. You really need to read up on the populist movement in this country at the turn of the 20th century in particular, because it’s not nearly as reductive as what you’re stating here.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  410. And here we sit with a mess that is supposedly the Neocons fault. The nature of Neoconism was changed by Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s just not Trump or Neocons. It’s a false choice….

    Why is it that neocon apologists NEVER want to take responsibility for the bad events and failures that happened on their watch? For all the complaints about Trump, you guys are just as stubborn about that as he is.

    2006 didn’t just happen in a vacuum. Nor did 2008. Bush, Cheney, and their advisors managed to radicalize an entire generation and a half to despise the GOP, due to their absolutely ham-fisted foreign policy decisions alone. Yeah, all the usual domestic policy complaints were there, but they would have been anyway, and Bush’s team decided to spray their feet with an M-60, first by botching the capture of Bin Laden, then by that absolutely stupid decision to invade Iraq. All those Americans dead or permanently disabled, and for what, exactly?

    And then there was that inexcusable bank bailout for institutions that committed outright securitization fraud, and hardly anyone went to jail over it. Incredibly, I got to see McCain nuke his presidential campaign in real time with that grandstanding “suspension,” while Obama sat back and laughed at him the entire time, because he knew that whole mess was going to be put entirely on the Republicans even though they needed Democrat votes to authorize it.

    If these guys had run things properly, Trump NEVER would have gained traction when he started making noise about running for President (again). Maybe Obama would have won anyway, but the Bush name wouldn’t have become so toxic that Trump wouldn’t have been able to piggyback on Jeb’s campaign announcement and bully him right out of the race. Maybe we end up with a President Jeb in 2016, or even a President Romney in 2012, because that trust would have been acknowledged and, most importantly, reciprocated.

    If Trump voters didn’t trust the neocons anymore by 2016, that’s not Trump’s fault. And it’s not the voters’ fault, either. He just saw where you guys were coming up short in connecting with the GOP voters and took advantage of it.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  411. @410. Liquid fertilizer doncha know. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  412. Trump is right that no Republican had a shot there.

    Disagree. McCain had no shot there. But in an economic crisis a fiscal fool like McCain was the wrong candidate. His stopping his campaign to come help sort out the crisis was hilarious — he was only slightly more aware of economics as Bernie.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  413. Why is it that neocon apologists NEVER want to take responsibility for the bad events and failures that happened on their watch? For all the complaints about Trump, you guys are just as stubborn about that as he is.

    LOLOLOLOLOL

    “So?’ – Dick ‘Daddy Darth’ Cheney, VP, Neocon

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  414. Why is it that neocon apologists NEVER want to take responsibility for the bad events and failures that happened on their watch?

    Hillary, Obama and McCain all got it wrong on Libya and Egypt.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  415. Neocon is another of those meaningless debased words.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  416. Monday’s WORDLE in 2

    Kevin M (90f346)

  417. OOOPs. That was Wordle Unlimited. Doesn’t count.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  418. Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/13/2022 @ 9:52 pm

    All I’m saying is that the leaders won’t improve until the voters become more savvy. I’m pro democratic republic. I’m for changing minds one by one so that people won’t fall for the liar every time.

    Populism is for people who don’t realize how things really work, and figure it’s just a matter of getting “their” guy in to “fix” things. They don’t realize there are tradeoffs. Tariffs, for example have big downsides. Does the populist talk about them? No. That would be too honest.

    Donald Trump lied. He knew Mexico wasn’t going to pay for the wall. He knew the budget wouldn’t be balanced. And he knew he had no replacement for Obamacare. Did the voters fall for it? Yes, yes they did.

    I’ll end with this quote from Milton Friedman. It is profound.

    I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.

    Like I said, the key is to enlighten voters, because politics is downstream from culture.

    norcal (a1f318)

  419. Or it’s the VOTERS fault that things went bad?

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d) — 11/13/2022 @ 9:52 pm

    That’s exactly what I’m saying. Generally speaking, the politicians are just a reflection of the voters. The leaders are constantly conducting polls, focus groups, town halls, etc., because they want to get elected / be re-elected.

    To rail against the politicians is to rail against the voters.

    norcal (a1f318)

  420. @322 What happened in floriduh desatan barely won in 2018. In the 2022 election gop gained 250,000 registered voters and democrats actually lost 10,000 registered voters. That explains desatan and little marco’s large margins not democrats voting republican.

    asset (6ce309)

  421. All you say: the government is taking my money to give to others like medicade for sick children. In caveman times if you committed a terrible crime they didn’t punish you. They escorted you to cave opening with your goods (money) and said You are now an economic libertarian conservative and don’t comeback! Your on your own if you meet a pack of wolves. If we who you say are after your money to tax it put you on a deserted island with your money all alone could you eat the money?

    asset (6ce309)

  422. How could you possibly know what cave men did, asset?

    The version of cave men we do know about, is America’s Mesolithics, Indians and Eskimos. And they did not waste food and firewood, dried buffalo chips, or walrus blubber on persons who were no longer useful to the tribe. They stranded them out on the prairie or on an ice floe to die.

    nk (27bb34)

  423. They stranded them out on the prairie or on an ice floe to die.

    Assuming that they didn’t practice cannibalism — the ultimate socialism — of course.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  424. That explains desatan and little marco’s large margins not democrats voting republican.

    Yes. First the Democrats became Republicans, then they voted for these guys. Good point.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  425. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

    Yes, but sometimes you get people so wrong that they do the wrong thing regardless.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  426. #424 norcal – There was a neat example of that in Washington’s 6th Congressional district this year. The incumbent, Kim Schrier, boasted of having a zillion town halls, and ran one ad with a Democratic mayor and a Republican mayor both thanking her for her help.

    And she boasted about getting more money for the police.

    It’s a marginal Republican district, but she won anyway. A better Republican candidate might have done better against her, but she is a formidable politician because she is trying to give the voters what they want, or at least appear to dod so.

    (According to Wikipedia. she graduate form Cal-Berkeley with a degree in astrophysics, so I think we can conclude that she is smart.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  427. Hey guys. Some wild election eh?

    DeSantis has got to be *the* candidate to take on Trump now for the primary, as his position couldn’t be any stronger. I think he should wait till next Late Summer/Fall before announcing a run, as he doesn’t have to respond to Trump (let his surrogates do that) and in the mean time, continue to kick arse in Florida.

    I agree with many of the pundits that Lee Zeldin saved GOP’s chance to taking control of House. He needs to be in national leadership in some way.

    Little disappointed that we didn’t win majority of the Senate, but this is what we get for having weak candidates. Since we do seem to win the House, I’m not that upset as we’d still get a “divided” government anyways.

    I’m now really excited that Trump may have shot himself in his foot with his voters. Now I really want to see a DeSantis vs Trump primary and it’s no guarantee that Trumps gets coronation.

    I am, however, really upset with GOP leadership/infrastructure teams. It seems that we’ve doubled down on the same strategy as if it’s pre-pandemic/pre-2020 mindset. Yes, I know many GOPers don’t like things like mailed-in-ballots, ballot dropoffs, harvesting, etc… But, those are the rules of the games in each state, and Democrats don’t have any issues maximizing their wins under these new rulesets. Republicans should’ve been more prepared to engage the same ballot-maximizing strategies to try to beat Democrats in their own game.

    All in all, not a terrible night for GOP. With lessons learned, we should be able to adapt and overcome in 2 years.

    Thoughts?

    whembly (e2380c)

  428. whembly,

    Trump is going to act as titular head of the party (sort of the Hillary inevitability strategy from years ago) until the GOP says he isn’t. That puts the House speakership in play, and it is what is behind the leadership struggle with McConnel. The election tells us that Trump limts the GOP’s appeal. It doesn’t tell us the base is willing to let go of him quite yet. (Though I keep seeing some hints. See Kurt Schlicter’s latest…)

    Everyone wants Trump to sort of fade away. That’d be nice. Would that be consistent with the guy’s temperment?

    Appalled (03f53c)

  429. Whembly, I think the election results were pretty bad for the GOP. Didn’t get the senate, house will be close, lost a number of of state legislatures and governorships. The dems shouldn’t be celebrating either. It’s clear that voters are dissatisfied with them.

    But, the ‘blood & soil/stop the steal/MAGA’ types failed horribly. So maybe the party will be moving on from that to more candidates like Dewine and Kemp.

    If Trump and Desantis can wipe each other out in the primary we might have the opportunity to vote for a decent candidate for president, which would be a huge win.

    Time123 (dc5c56)

  430. One thing the election showed is the continuing weakness of the Democratic Party in rural areas, a weakness that I do not think they will cure until they include people from outside New York and San Francisco in the congressional leadership.

    Responsible Republicans — and there still are many — have been trying, with some success — to reach out to many different minorities. Now that Trump is fading from the scene, they are likely to have even more success. But I don’t see many leaders in the Democratic Party who realize they should do the same thing.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  431. I think expectation were high this year, and it’s… defensible.

    EVERYONE thought that the GOP was going to wipe out Democrats… including Democrats!

    But, we strengthened FL, NC, GA, TX, OH, MO, NE, UT and I’m sure I’m missing a few state/local elections.

    The School board was a romp for GOPers.

    In short, there’s a lot to like, but a lot that needs works and could’ve been better. I do think a leadership needs to happen though, just not sure where.

    Trump is going to need to be knocked on his arse, sadly, and it’d take someone equally strong/popular on the national stage. Right now that’s DeSantis.

    Kemp, however, is my darkhorse but I’m not sure he’s all thats interested in Presidency. He seems like a content happy warrior for state of GA, not unlike Youngkin.

    I hope the biggest lessons learned are:
    1) Candidate quality does matter. Don’t get suckered into letting your opponent influence your primary candidates (ie, PA and AZ)

    2) Mail in / harvesting ballots is here to stay. GOP must get their infrastructure going to maximize these ballots. I suspect much of the Dem’s winning margins were just facilitating ordinarily unmotivated and uninvolved (and indoctrinated) young voters to reliably help deliver Dems victories. GOP must reciprocate.

    whembly (d116f3)

  432. I’d quibble with NC (helps that several large metro areas have to be “serviced” rather than 1 or 2), but IA is well put away beyond reach also, it was an original Blue State (88) and always susceptible to new shiny things in Blue, but not since 2012.

    urbanleftbehind (5b5a64)

  433. Whembly, have you seen any good round ups on school boards? I’ve been looking but haven’t found much.

    Time123 (12c1fe)

  434. Whembly,

    In some states the GOP used absentee and early balloting as much as the Democrats did (AZ, for one). In others they did not (twice as many Dems used alternative balloting in CA than did Republicans). Considering how this failure to maximize votes cost Trump his re-election, I’m surprised that this mistake was repeated in places. Ideological own-goal.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  435. Whembly, have you seen any good round ups on school boards? I’ve been looking but haven’t found much.

    This probably means that the NEA came out winners. Otherwise you’d be seeing stories about how knuckle-draggers were going to destroy education.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  436. @438 Not at national media sources.

    I’ve seen blips on twitter at various states that a lot of states flipped their school board D > Rs.

    whembly (d116f3)

  437. Heh! The GOP held its own in the same sense that a teenager sleeping alone “holds his own”. It’s still the party of self-abuse, and its “gains” are not worth the stains on the bedsheets. But, then, so was Trump’s tenure.

    nk (27bb34)

  438. Change is good:

    Members of the pro-Trump House Freedom Caucus are withholding their support for House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy’s speakership bid and have begun to lay out their list of demands, putting the California Republican’s path to securing 218 votes in peril if the party ultimately takes the House with a slim majority.
    ………
    Rep. Chip Roy of Texas told reporters that “no one currently has 218” votes for speaker, which is the magic number McCarthy would need to secure the speaker’s gavel on the House floor in January, and said he wants McCarthy to list in greater detail his plans for a wide array of investigations into the Biden administration. And Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona complained that McCarthy seemed to backpedal on whether he’d be willing to launch impeachment proceedings into President Joe Biden or members of his Cabinet.
    ………
    But the group’s push to extract concessions from McCarthy has exacerbated tensions inside the party. Said one senior GOP lawmaker: “They are a bunch of selfish, prima donna a**holes who want attention for themselves. They are trading effectiveness for the warm embrace of their social media followers.”
    ………
    Rep. Bob Good, a member of the Freedom Caucus, told reporters that McCarthy “has not done anything to earn my vote” for speaker.

    The Virginia Republican also predicted that “there will be a challenge to (McCarthy) as a speaker candidate,” a possibility that CNN first reported was under consideration by the group.
    ……..
    But there is at least one member who has said there is nothing McCarthy could do to earn his vote. Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida said on his podcast that not only was McCarthy not his first choice to lead, he was not “even in my top 100”.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  439. That’s what Blue Dog Democrats are for. For the Gaetzes and the Biggses. And McCarthy will know better than us how to go about it.

    nk (27bb34)

  440. Prediction:

    McCarthy does not get to 218.

    The house GOP appeals to Trump — offers the speaker job.

    Trump says beta male McCarthy is OK with him.

    Freedom Caucus consents.

    Lo and behold — Trump looks powerful and doesn’t have to do any work. And McCarthy falls deeper into his pocket.

    Aternative is give Trump speaker as sop for him not running for President. I don’t see House and GOP beng able to put that together. But it does bag him a big announcement for 11-15.

    Trump needs to look powerful right now. Poor lamb.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  441. Hmm..

    Events have overtaken me:

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/14/politics/kevin-mccarthy-trump-support/

    McCarthy owing Trump is triumph enough for the Donald.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  442. All in all, not a terrible night for GOP.

    This is the 2nd election in a row that Trump sabotaged the GOP’s chances of a Senate majority, thus denying McConnell to do what he does best: Obstruct the hell out of Democrat legislation and presidential nominations. How is that not terrible?

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  443. If the Dems were smart, Pelosi or whoever would whip the caucus into 100% support for Liz Cheney as Speaker, and hope to get a couple Republicans to come on board. It could be easier than McCarthy trying to get himself and 217 other Republicans to vote for him.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  444. 448

    The problem here is Freedom Caucus ultras. If Trump says McCarthy, they will fall in line. The alternative — they get a nickname. “Jimmy the Molester” or Loony Laura or Empty Greene.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  445. The narrative will change the day he announces; it’ll flush out the remaining minority nevertrumpers in leadership trying to deflect blame for their own incompetence at totally blowing this cycle; focus and pick off the remaining deadwood [bye-bye Mitch] – DeSantis will fall in line [a la Lil’Marco and Lyin’ Ted] as ‘the apprentice’ VP; hatchet will be buried and they’ll run to victory over the 62 year olf Biden in 2024 w/ 4 years of Trump then 8 years of national office seasoned DeSantis. By that time, Vice President DeSantis speaking at Joey’s state funeral should be good practice. 😉

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  446. ^typo- 82 year old Biden

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  447. This is the 2nd election in a row that Trump sabotaged the GOP’s chances of a Senate majority, thus denying McConnell to do what he does best: Obstruct the hell out of Democrat legislation and presidential nominations. How is that not terrible?

    Stout nevertrumper McConnell sabotaged the GOP’s senate chances. You go to war w/t army you have and whether he likes it or not, the vast majority of the GOP membership does not back him and his lackluster performance failed to draw in indies. The margins in many of these races were small- and smarter strategies and wiser allocation of assets may have made as difference. That’s all on Mitch; h’es in charge- and he blew it– likely on purposes, because the most important l;ewadership pision to Mitch… is Mitch’s. He’s gotta go.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  448. Stout nevertrumper McConnell sabotaged the GOP’s senate chances.

    McConnell didn’t hand-pick and endorse Oz. Or Laxalt. Or Masters. Or the “observably stupid” Walker. That’s all on Trump.
    McConnell spent $238 million in PAC money on Senate candidates and Trump spent a fraction, still having nearly $100 million of unspent funds in his PAC.
    This is all on Trump. He’s the saboteur.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  449. @453. The party voters did. You go to war w/t army you have.

    McConnell blew it.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  450. @453. OFGS, Trump was not on the ballot and McConnell/GOP leadership are in office and get the paycheck and wield the power that goes w/those positions. It’s all on McConnell’s self preservation tactics and clear contempt for the majority of his own party member preferences. The bum is done.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  451. Appalled (03f53c) — 11/14/2022 @ 10:23 am

    Prediction:

    McCarthy does not get to 218.

    This is the status quo. But who else could be elected?

    The Democrats might try to support a Republican, or third party candidate, but they probably wouldn’t want to.

    The house GOP appeals to Trump — offers the speaker job.

    I hadn;t thought of that. It would be an alternative announcement for November 15.

    But — Trump wouldn’t want the job for several reasons: Financial disclosures, too much work with little staff and not very interesting. .

    Trump says beta male McCarthy is OK with him.

    Which he did

    Freedom Caucus consents.

    Not yet.

    Lo and behold — Trump looks powerful and doesn’t have to do any work. And McCarthy falls deeper into his pocket.

    It also is likely to succeed. Tsking any other position is much more likely tofail.

    Aternative is give Trump speaker as sop for him not running for President. I don’t see House and GOP beng able to put that together. But it does bag him a big announcement for 11-15.

    Events have overtaken me:

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/14/politics/kevin-mccarthy-trump-support/

    McCarthy owing Trump is triumph enough for the Donald.

    And besides any other position is likely to fail.

    Appalled (03f53c) — 11/14/2022 @ 10:31 am

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  452. DC, you’re pretending that Trump was some sort of powerless innocent bystander in his selection and endorsement of 291 election deniers. It’s not honest, your pathetic attempts at scapegoating McConnell.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  453. That last Appalled was so far down I missed it. But I should have realized there was a reason for all these blank lines.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8) — 11/14/2022 @ 12:02 pm

    This is all on Trump. He’s the saboteur.

    Of course, Trump’s pretending that candidate selection makes no difference in the election, but endorsements and campaign money do.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  454. Whembly, I think the biggest winners here are the establishment GOP. The kooks, conspiracy theorists, and election deniers almost all lost when they weren’t in a very safe seat. In 2 years when moderate republicans run in primaries they have a chance and getting more traction and electability being a persuasive consideration.

    Time123 (afbf2e)

  455. The Freedom Caucus made Trump’s first Congress ineffective. I see no reason they should stop now. The RNC should takes sides against every last one of them in their primaries.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  456. @429 the democrats registration dropped by 10,000 not 250,000 so your analogy false. It was goppers moving to floriduh from the north. We had the same problem in az with goppers moving here from ca. Fortunetly latinx turning 18 is overwhelming them now.

    asset (fa5770)

  457. Aternative is give Trump speaker as sop for him not running for President.

    Shortly thereafter, they impeach Harris and Biden for The Steal.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  458. latinx

    No such thing outside a Hispanic tranny bar.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  459. Mike Pence wrote a book which some of it was excerpted in the Wall Street Journal. John Eastman wrote a letter claiming some of it was inaccurate.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-mike-pence-jan-6-president-rally-capitol-riot-protest-vote-count-so-help-me-god-stolen-election-11668018494

    Early on New Year’s Day, the phone rang. Texas Rep. Louie Gohmert and other Republicans had filed a lawsuit asking a federal judge to declare that I had “exclusive authority and sole discretion” to decide which electoral votes should count. “I don’t want to see ‘Pence Opposes Gohmert Suit’ as a headline this morning,” the president said. I told him I did oppose it. “If it gives you the power,” he asked, “why would you oppose it?” I told him, as I had many times, that I didn’t believe I possessed that power under the Constitution.

    “You’re too honest,” he chided. “Hundreds of thousands are gonna hate your guts. . . . People are gonna think you’re stupid.”

    On Saturday, Jan. 2, I instructed my chief of staff to issue a statement supporting the right of lawmakers to bring objections under the Electoral Count Act. By Sunday morning, the headline “Pence Welcomes Congressional Republicans’ Bid to Challenge Electoral Votes” was everywhere. When the president called me that morning, his mood had brightened. “You have gone from very unpopular to popular!” he exclaimed. But then he pressed me again to reject electoral votes unilaterally. “You can be a historic figure,” he said, “but if you wimp out, you’re just another somebody.”

    On Jan. 4, the president’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, summoned me to the Oval Office for a meeting with a long list of attendees, including the legal scholar John Eastman. I listened respectfully as Mr. Eastman argued that I should modify the proceedings, which require that electoral votes be opened and counted in alphabetical order, by saving the five disputed states until the end. Mr. Eastman claimed I had the authority to return the votes to the states until each legislature certified which of the competing slate of electors for the state was correct. I had already confirmed that there were no competing electors.

    Mr. Eastman repeatedly qualified his argument, saying it was only a legal theory. I asked, “Do you think I have the authority to reject or return votes?”

    He stammered, “Well, it’s never been tested in the courts, so I think it is an open question.”

    At that I turned to the president, who was distracted, and said, “Mr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn’t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.” The president nodded. As Mr. Eastman struggled to explain, the president replied, “I like the other thing better,” presumably meaning that I could simply reject electoral votes.

    On Jan. 5, I got an urgent call that the president was asking to see me in the Oval Office. The president’s lawyers, including Mr. Eastman, were now requesting that I simply reject the electors. I later learned that Mr. Eastman had conceded to my general counsel that rejecting electoral votes was a bad idea and any attempt to do so would be quickly overturned by a unanimous Supreme Court. This guy didn’t even believe what he was telling the president.

    Right before going to bed, I saw that the Trump campaign had issued a statement. The New York Times reported that I had told the president I didn’t believe I had the power to block congressional certification of the election. That was true, but the statement called it “fake news.” I had a feeling that Jan. 6, 2021, was going to be a very long day.

    I rose early that day and worked on my statement to Congress. When the phone rang a little after 11 a.m., it was the president. “Despite the press release you issued last night,” I said, “I have always been forthright with you, Mr. President.” I reiterated that I didn’t believe I had the power to decide which electoral votes would count and said I would be issuing a statement to Congress confirming that before the joint session started.

    The president laid into me. “You’ll go down as a wimp,” he said. “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago!”

    But when he said, “You’re not protecting our country, you’re supposed to support and defend our country!” I calmly reminded him, “We both took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.”

    …As our motorcade arrived at the Capitol, I saw thousands of protesters standing peacefully on the East Lawn. I felt compassion for all the good people who had traveled to Washington having been told that the outcome of the election could be changed. They cheered as we entered. I turned to my daughter and sighed: “God bless those people. They’re gonna be so disappointed.”

    I had no idea that what was later described as a “wall of people” had formed about a block west of the Capitol. As I led senators onto the House floor, the mood was solemn. There was no indication of the mayhem unfolding outside. Speaker Nancy Pelosi gaveled the chamber into session a little after 1 p.m….

    He also later had no idea at the time that . Some of the rioters were chanting, “Hang Mike Pence!” He also refused to get into a car lest he be driven out without his consent.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-john-eastman-jan-6-donald-trump-2020-election-11668200557

    In his op-ed “My Last Days With Donald Trump” (Nov. 12), Mike Pence claims that I advised that he could unilaterally reject electoral votes and simply declare President Trump re-elected in 2020, even though I personally didn’t believe that advice. That claim is false on both points. The advice I gave to then-Vice President Pence was that he accede to requests from hundreds of [imaginary probably -SF] state lawmakers to delay proceedings for a short time so that they could assess the effect of illegalities on the conduct of the election.

    Another prominent newspaper [the New York Times] accurately reported in October 2021 on the exchange during the Jan. 4 Oval Office meeting, which was attended by only the president, vice president, me and the vice president’s chief of staff and general counsel, not the “long list of attendees” Mr. Pence claims. It was only with respect to the claim that the vice president could simply reject votes that I noted the issue was complicated and has “never been tested.” But I explicitly told Mr. Pence that even if he had such authority, it would be foolish for him to exercise it absent certification of the alternate electors by a state legislature. The October article even cited an anonymous source—“a person close to Mr. Pence”—who confirmed the exchange.

    I have published an extensive discussion of the issue and of that Oval Office conversation, and my public remarks at the Ellipse on Jan. 6, 2021, also confirm the advice I actually gave: “All we are demanding of Vice President Pence is, this afternoon at 1 o’clock, he let the legislatures of the states look into this [allegations of illegality and fraud] so we get to the bottom of it.” Mr. Trump made the same point in his speech following mine: “All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states.”

    John C. Eastman, Ph.D.

    And Mike Pence today claimed on ABC that Donald Trump endangered his life with his tweet, although Trump tweeted that after people were already after him to hang him. (his purpose was probably to excuse them, not encourage them)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  460. @459 wrong establishment donor class has about 30% of gop voters populist/trumpsters 60% libertarians who have not joined libertarian party 10% and ignorant white trash populist/trumpsters are younger and breed more then never trumpers. Donor class has the money, populists have the votes to paraphrase AOC.

    asset (fa5770)

  461. New York Times story cited by Eastman, (linked to in the online version of the WSJ eltter) which includes an account of the Jan 4 meeting:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/02/us/politics/john-eastman-trump-memo.html

    ….In that subsequent meeting with Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence, Mr. Eastman was the only adviser to the president in the room.

    “It started with the president talking about how some of the legal scholarship that had been done, saying under the 12th Amendment, the vice president has the ultimate authority to reject invalid electoral votes and he asked me what I thought about it,” Mr. Eastman said.

    “It’s a little bit more complicated than that, that’s certainly one of the arguments that’s been put out there, it’s never been tested,” Mr. Eastman said he replied.

    Mr. Eastman said that Mr. Pence then turned to him and asked, “Do you think I have such power?”

    Mr. Eastman said he told Mr. Pence that he might have the power, but that it would be foolish for him to exercise it until state legislatures certified a new set of electors for Mr. Trump — something that had not happened.

    A person close to Mr. Pence, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the Oval Office conversation, said that Mr. Eastman acknowledged that the vice president most likely did not have that power, at which point Mr. Pence turned to Mr. Trump and said, “Did you hear that, Mr. President?”

    Mr. Trump appeared to be only half-listening, the person said.

    Mr. Eastman said he then pivoted the conversation to asking Mr. Pence to delay the certification.

    “What we asked him to do was delay the proceedings at the request of these state legislatures so they could look into the matter,” Mr. Eastman said.

    Mr. Eastman recounted that Mr. Pence said he “would take it under advisement,” but Mr. Eastman said he did not believe Mr. Pence would go along with it.

    “The delay was kind of new to him,” Mr. Eastman said about Mr. Pence, “and he wanted to think about it over and meet with his staff about it. But I didn’t think he would do it. My sense was he knew an irretrievable break with Trump was about to come, and he was trying to delay that uncomfortable moment for as long as he could.”

    Mr. Eastman recalled getting in touch with Mr. Pence’s legal counsel Mr. Jacob the next day about whether Mr. Pence could delay the certification…..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  462. @459

    Whembly, I think the biggest winners here are the establishment GOP. The kooks, conspiracy theorists, and election deniers almost all lost when they weren’t in a very safe seat. In 2 years when moderate republicans run in primaries they have a chance and getting more traction and electability being a persuasive consideration.

    Time123 (afbf2e) — 11/14/2022 @ 12:48 pm

    Possibly.

    I’m just hoping that people pay MORE attention to the ’24 primaries and use the lessons of the 2022 election when considering candidates.

    Democrats were success in their version of “Operation Chaos” in raising GOP candidate’s stature that they think they could win…. and they did. Hopefully, this tactic is ignored going forward.

    whembly (d116f3)

  463. DeSantis won so big in Florida because his opponent was Charlie Crist (whose abandoned House seat was flipped by the way) and because of school choice (already a reality in Miiami-Dade county – and Crist’s candidate for Lt Gov was a high ranking member f the teacher’s union

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-school-choice-wave-midterm-2022-florida-desantis-education-freedom-parents-teachers-unions-illinois-pennsylvania-11668090033

    On Tuesday Mr. DeSantis won by more than 19 points overall and by 11 points in Miami-Dade, a county that favored Joe Biden by 7 points in 2020.

    About three-fourths of Miami-Dade students are enrolled in choice programs, but Democrat Charlie Crist foolishly went all in for the public-school monopoly and picked the president of Miami’s United Teachers of Dade as his running mate.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  464. nk (56f370) — 11/11/2022 @ 8:57 am

    Two censuses and two redistrictings. Blue legislatures gerrymandered more blue districts, red legislatures gerrymandered more red districts. It was not the ideological lines, it was the district lines that changed.

    What do you think?

    In NY they were changed to make them more neutral, and 4 or 5 House seats flipped.

    The original Dem plan had been to go from 8 Reps to 3 Reps. 8-19 to 3-23. Instead there are 10 or 11 (10-15 plus 1 uncalled)

    No, they are all called by Google 10-15 including one sure Dem with no results

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  465. 27. The primaries are not enough. Candidates drop out. At the latest, as soon as they have no chance on the first ballot.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  466. If Donald Trump and Joe Biden both announce maybe a multi-millionaire will announce too. Is there a good one? And what happens then?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  467. 471 refers to 467

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  468. 430. Milton Friedman didn’t say you needed to get into asituation where they would all do the “right thing” Just that it would be politically profitable to do it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  469. @469 as I said in earlier post 250,000 more registered gop from people moving to floriduh since 2018. 10,000 drop in democrats probably dixiecrats changing to gop. Not christ as val demings lost similar. Democrats error need to run latinx candidates.

    asset (fa5770)

  470. Didn’t Trump complain about O’Dea in Colorado?

    https://coloradosun.com/2022/10/26/donald-trump-joe-odea-colorado-senate-race/

    Former President Donald Trump attacked Colorado’s Republican U.S. Senate candidate Joe O’Dea. Then Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis endorsed O’Dea. Then Trump blasted DeSantis.

    …Trump lashed out at O’Dea last week after O’Dea said on national television that he would actively campaign against the former president should he run for reelection in 2024. “I don’t think Donald Trump should run again,” O’Dea said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

    Trump fired back, calling O’Dea, who is running to unseat Democratic U.S. Sen. Michael Bennet, a Republican-in-name-only and saying in a post on his Truth Social social media site that “MAGA doesn’t Vote for stupid people with big mouths.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  471. Democrats were success in their version of “Operation Chaos” in raising GOP candidate’s stature that they think they could win…. and they did. Hopefully, this tactic is ignored going forward.

    whembly (d116f3) — 11/14/2022 @ 1:04 pm

    Given their success, I am sure we will see more of it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  472. “MAGA doesn’t Vote for stupid people with big mouths.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 11/14/2022 @ 1:26 pm

    MTG begs to differ.

    norcal (a1f318)

  473. They are trading effectiveness for the warm embrace of their social media followers.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2022 @ 9:52 am

    The story of Trump

    norcal (a1f318)

  474. Federal prosecutors decline to file charges against Rudy Giuliani
    ………..
    The grand jury investigation has concluded “and that based on information currently available to the Government, criminal charges are not forthcoming,” prosecutors said in a letter to the court.
    ……..
    Federal prosecutors in Manhattan had been deciding whether Giuliani, one of Trump’s lawyers and a close adviser, violated lobbying laws when he campaigned for the ouster of then-U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch from Ukraine.
    ……..


    I am sure the prosecutors took note of the recent acquittal of Thomas Barrick under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  475. @457. Rubbish. McConnell is in charge, he is in office, he allocates resources, affirms strategies, collects a paycheck for this incompetence– and he all but insulated himself in August blaming his own party’s candidate quality. You go to war with the army you have. He represents a minority sliver of his own party now. It is you pretend endorsements even matter in the 21st century- -next you’ll embrace the crisp accuracy of modern polling techniques. “It’s not honest, your pathetic attempts at scapegoating the ovewwhelming majority of McConnell’s own party membership… the members wqho support the policies of Trump.”– There, FIFY.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  476. McConnell has been the most effective Republican politician this century, so I’m thrilled to see the Trump wing throw him overboard.

    Davethulhu (02f479)

  477. “Given their success, I am sure we will see more of it.”

    This, imo, was the worst part of the election. Playing with fire.

    Davethulhu (02f479)

  478. Katie Hobbs is poised to win the governor’s race after Kari Lake gains, but not enough
    ………
    Lake, a former television newscaster who surged to the GOP nomination in August after being endorsed by former president Donald Trump, picked up about 8,900 votes on Sunday — but still trails Hobbs by more than 26,000 votes.

    There are an estimated 160,000 early ballots left to be counted across Arizona, though most of those are from the urban centers of Maricopa and Pima counties. Some 94,000 ballots remain in Maricopa County, while another nearly 39,000 remain in Pima County. Almost all of those ballots have been verified and are ready for tabulation.

    With the number of outstanding ballots dwindling, Lake’s path to victory has become increasingly difficult, if not verging on mathematically impossible. According to the Arizona Mirror’s analysis, she will need to win 58.13% of the remaining votes to catch Hobbs, the Democratic secretary of state.

    The problem: Lake hasn’t yet hit that mark in any of the post-Election Day counts.
    ……..
    While Republicans have predicted that every day since the polls closed would reveal a wave of GOP-heavy ballots that would eliminate Hobbs’ lead, that has yet to happen. In Maricopa County, where roughly two-thirds of voters live, Lake didn’t notch a majority of votes in post-Election Day counting until Saturday, when she earned 51.8% of the votes counted that day.

    Her tally on Sunday in the county was 54.6%, the best she’s achieved so far, but significantly less than the roughly 60% target that her campaign surrogates said would put her within striking distance of Hobbs.

    The Lake campaign has remained quiet about the election results over the weekend. …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  479. DCSCA,

    Trump is a political corpse. I’d get away from the imminent stench if I were you.

    norcal (a1f318)

  480. 482 because he’s got 4 full years remaining, the Dems should make Mi..through Elaine…an offer…no worse than 3rd or 4th in leadership. Or a big FU by quitting before Beshear faces reelection.

    urbanleftbehind (5b5a64)

  481. In the past week both my mother and my second-best friend have jumped off the Trump train.

    Maybe there is a God.

    norcal (a1f318)

  482. @485. LOL The 1980’s called- they want your line back– or claim plagiarism. 😉

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  483. Huh?

    ……..
    Over at the social media platform Trump helped start, the former president has been on a tirade against DeSantis, very clearly out of frustration that DeSantis sailed to reelection on Tuesday while Trump-endorsed candidates were battered. So Trump is offering up context like “shouldn’t it be said that in 2020, I got 1.1 Million more votes in Florida than Ron D got this year, 5.7 Million to 4.6 Million?”

    ………. As part of a thread claiming credit for nearly every aspect of DeSantis’s political career (not completely unfairly), Trump brought up the aftermath of the 2018 election in Florida that DeSantis narrowly won.

    “After the Race, when votes were being stolen by the corrupt Election process in Broward County, and Ron was going down ten thousand votes a day, along with now-Senator Rick Scott,” Trump wrote, “I sent in the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys, and the ballot theft immediately ended, just prior to them running out of the votes necessary to win. I stopped his Election from being stolen.…”

    (The narrow winning electoral margins of DeSantis and then-Gov. Rick Scott running for US Senate in 2018) were close enough that attention turned to the counting of mail ballots in the days after the election, a process that is by now deeply familiar to political observers. So was the context in which that counting took place: Scott alleged that the slow process of counting votes in Democratic-heavy counties like Broward offered the opportunity for illegal ballots to be injected. There was no actual evidence of this; he and his allies insisted that ballots were appearing out of nowhere to be included, which wasn’t true. But it was a way to cast doubt on the vote and, potentially, to shut down a vote count that had consistently eroded his advantage after Election Day.

    This is what Trump appears to be referring to. But the timeline of what happened makes clear that none of this had anything to do with DeSantis.

    Scott first made his allegations about fraudulent voting in a news conference on the evening of Nov. 8, 2018. This was the first moment at which this idea that the vote count was suspicious was introduced (beyond rumblings for a few hours prior). But notice that it was Scott who was making these allegations, not DeSantis.

    ………The Associated Press declared DeSantis the winner of the gubernatorial race nearly two days before.
    ………
    The question then becomes: Did Trump ask the FBI to shut down the vote count in Florida on Scott’s behalf?

    There’s no evidence that he did. By all accounts, the process of counting ballots in the targeted counties continued slowly — and not without contentiousness — until all of the votes were tallied. The AP called the race for Scott on Nov. 20. An investigation later determined that a number of problems had surrounded the counting in Broward County, but that none of them affected the outcome of any races. There was no evidence of rampant illegal voting.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  484. @482. McConnell has been the most effective Republican politician this century, so I’m thrilled to see the Trump wing throw him overboard.

    LOL The Nyet Effect; he certainly took Nancy Reagan’s advice to heart: “Just say no.” 😉

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  485. https://www.clubforgrowth.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/CfGAction_2024_Primary_PollSummary_221114.pdf

    Polls, smolls…

    But, dayum:

    (+- vs from August 13)

    IA
    DeSantis — 48% (+11)
    Trump — 37% (-15)

    NH
    DeSantis — 52% (+7)
    Trump — 37% (-8)

    FL
    DeSantis — 56% (+7)
    Trump — 30% (-12)

    GA
    DeSantis — 55% (+8)
    Trump — 35% (-6)

    whembly (d116f3)

  486. How could you possibly know what cave men did, asset?

    nk (27bb34) — 11/14/2022 @ 5:13 am
    The same way I know. We were there. I remember it like it was yesterday. As he was riding off on his T-Rex, Shane-like into the sunset, asset was heard lamenting, “I didn’t leave the cave. The cave left me.” Yup, Reagan was there too, scribbling furiously.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  487. I seem to have dropped another html tag. Clear enough anyway, no?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  488. Club for Growth President Blames McConnell for Lackluster Midterm Showing

    Club for Growth president David McIntosh said during a press conference Wednesday that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) failed to define the midterms as a referendum on President Biden’s agenda and anemic economy. Biden’s low approval rating coupled with months of polling data expressing dissatisfaction with the economy led many pundits and pollsters to predict massive GOP gains in the cycle. That has not quite materialized, though Republicans are expected to take control of the house and could possibly have control of the Senate by one seat.

    https://nationalfile.com/club-for-growth-president-blames-mcconnell-for-lackluster-midterm-showing/

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  489. In 1964 — which was not a great year for Republicans — Republican Lud Kramer won the Secretary of State office in Washington. Kramer was followed, in 1975, by Republican Bruce Chapman. Chapman was followed, in 1980, by Republican Ralph Munro. Munro was followed, in 2000, by Republican Sam Reed. Reed was followed, in 2012, by Republican Kim Wyman.

    After Trump’s refusal to accept his defeat in 2020, Wyman resigned, and took a position in the Biden administration, ending what was then one of the longest current partisan streaks in American politics.

    (Oh, and not so incidentally, until Trump came along, Republicans, in coalition with two dissident Democrats, controlled the state senate. There was a similar situation in New York.)

    Note to the moderator: I removed three links from this comment so it could post. The original (#443) can be discarded. My apologies for any trouble I may have caused you.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  490. ‘So Pissed Off, I Cannot Even See Straight’ — Ted Cruz Blames Mitch McConnell For GOP Midterm Losses

    Republican Texas Sen. Ted Cruz slammed Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell during a Monday podcast, saying the GOP should have won the majority of the upper chamber and blamed McConnell for not supporting Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters.

    Cruz released an episode of his podcast, titled Verdict with Ted Cruz, where he and co-host Ben Ferguson discussed the midterm elections and the GOP’s failure to recapture the Senate. Cruz mentioned his frustration, saying there was no excuse for McConnell to abandon Masters, calling it “indefensible.”

    “Well, Ben, let me start off by saying I am so pissed off, I cannot even see straight,” Cruz said.

    https://dailycaller.com/2022/11/14/ted-cruz-mitch-mcconnell-midterms-gop-loss/

    ROFLMAO, Et Tu, Tedtoo?

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  491. If Trump and Desantis can wipe each other out in the primary we might have the opportunity to vote for a decent candidate for president, which would be a huge win.

    Time123 (dc5c56) — 11/14/2022 @ 8:31 am

    My dude, tanned, rested and poised for a comeback, is John Boehner. I can see the poster: Boehner in full Spicoli, the caption, “You’re missing me now, right? I accept your apology.”

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  492. Needless to say, Boehner will be holding a spliff in one hand, a highball in the other.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  493. “Well, Ben, let me start off by saying I am so pissed off, I cannot even see straight,” Cruz said.

    …and Log Cabin Republicans smiled.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  494. “MAGA doesn’t Vote for stupid people with big mouths.”

    I thought that was their raison d’etre!

    Kevin M (90f346)

  495. Managers Proceed Toward Nov. 16 Launch, to Meet Monday

    The Artemis I mission management team met Sunday evening to review the status of preparations for launch and gave a “go” to proceed toward a Nov. 16 launch attempt. The team will meet again Monday afternoon to review additional analysis associated with caulk on Orion’s launch abort system that came loose during Hurricane Nicole. The two-hour window for launch opens at 1:04 a.m. EST Wednesday. The countdown clock will begin at 1:54 a.m. Monday.

    https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/11/13/managers-proceed-toward-nov-16-launch-to-meet-monday/

    Read those times. This is supposed to be a test flight – the first- of a new, multi-billion dollar rocket/payload stack, years in development, delayed w/cost overruns and already plagued by pesky hydrogen leaks. And the management team has decided to attempt the test launch in darkness when optimum visual tracking and optics are considerably reduced. This should make Kev happy: time to question the decision-making and competence of the Artemis management team at NASA. As a general rule of thumb, you conduct a test flight –particularly the first of any new vehicle– w/t best visual conditions available for tracking and so forth. Not in darkness.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  496. Who cares what Ted Cruz thinks. All the Trumpsters are going top blame someone — anyone — other than themselves. In two years no one will have supported Trump.

    I wonder if he will announce he’s running tomorrow. He hates to lose.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  497. The Biggest Loser?

    ………
    Cruz put his stamp on more than two dozen GOP candidates this midterm, and it did not go well. Most of them either lost or, with some totals still trickling in, are currently losing.

    Cruz focused his support on House races, most specifically 24 of the 25 candidates participating in his “Cruz 25 for 22 Victory Fund” joint fundraising committee. Of the 24 candidates, only nine won their races. The group features just one of Cruz’s fellow senators, Mike Lee, who won his re-election bid after putting down a surprisingly tough challenge from independent candidate Evan McMullin.

    The Cruz-tied “Truth and Courage” super PAC did even worse. The group, which openly aligns with Cruz—to a possibly unlawful degree—only won one of the three races that it funded. That would be the victory Rep.-elect Cory Mills scored over Karen Green in an open seat in Florida.
    ……….
    Cruz is also tied to a joint committee for a handful of Senate candidates. That group, “Win the Senate 2022,” counts his leadership PAC alongside Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX). Of the five 2022 candidates in the committee, three have won their races: Katie Britt in Alabama, J.D. Vance in Ohio, and Ted Budd in North Carolina. Dr. Mehmet Oz conceded in Pennsylvania and Adam Laxalt lost in Nevada.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  498. More results from Los Angeles:

    Karen Bass has continued to build on her lead over Rick Caruso in the Los Angeles mayor’s race, according to an updated tally of results released Monday that showed the congresswoman leading the real estate developer 52.15% to 47.85% nearly a week after polls closed.

    Bass now holds a 29,271-vote lead, according to the L.A. County Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk’s office. The latest update heavily favored Bass, with the congresswoman taking in 63% of the more than 76,100 newly counted ballots.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  499. Sorry for the lack of blockquotes.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  500. I think we’ve turned a corner on Trump.
    People who need his base are struggling to come up with appropriate compliments. For instance: Wow. You sure don’t sweat much for a fat guy!

    steveg (95e5e2)

  501. So, Los Angeles will have another lost decade in ethnic squabbling over shares of the ongoing bust-out. The lack of vision and mission since Bradley left office is awesome in its terribleness.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  502. What will be the reaction to Trump’s campaign kick-off?

    1) GOP politicians will fight over who gets to kiss the ring first?
    2) Meh?
    3) Hostility from the rest of the GOP?
    4) Indictments?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  503. Reserved acknowledgment to cautious silence. No sticking out of necks either way.

    nk (bb1548)

  504. “shouldn’t it be said that in 2020, I got 1.1 Million more votes in Florida than Ron D got this year, 5.7 Million to 4.6 Million?”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/14/2022 @ 3:04 pm

    Voter turnout is much higher in Presidential elections than midterm elections.

    Trump knows this. He’s just dropping a talking point for the lowbrows. (h/t nk)

    norcal (a1f318)

  505. Stick a fork in the last of the major election deniers.
    After the latest and last big batch from Maricopa, Lake is still down by 20k.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  506. 1) GOP politicians will fight over who gets to kiss the ring first?
    2) Meh?
    3) Hostility from the rest of the GOP?
    4) Indictments?

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/14/2022 @ 5:40 pm

    Two through four.

    There will be a handful of crazies like MTG who will kiss the ring. Mo Brooks will not. An erstwhile crazy, he unloaded on Trump yesterday.

    https://news.yahoo.com/jan-6-firebrand-turns-trump-054910944.html

    norcal (a1f318)

  507. And Lisa Murkowski is catching up to Kelly Tshibaka also.

    nk (bb1548)

  508. lurker (cd7cd4) — 11/14/2022 @ 3:57 pm

    Good one, lurker! Hopefully asset has enough of a sense of humor to appreciate it.

    norcal (a1f318)

  509. Lake lost! Great news for people who aren’t insane. Dishonest conspiracy theorists hardest hit.

    Time123 (c0c0a9)

  510. Lake lost! Great news for people who aren’t insane. Dishonest conspiracy theorists hardest hit.

    Time123 (c0c0a9) — 11/14/2022 @ 6:05 pm

    She’s talented, but rode the wrong horse. What a shame. She could have been a contender for higher things.

    norcal (a1f318)

  511. There will be a recount and likely a Kraken.

    nk (fed93b)

  512. And another Trumpista loses:

    Democratic candidate Katie Hobbs, Arizona’s current secretary of state who vocally defended the 2020 results in the state then-President Donald Trump lost, defeated Republican Kari Lake, who aligned herself closely with former President Donald Trump and his false claims of election fraud.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  513. It appears that New Mexico, Hawaii, and the New England states are the only states with no Republican representative in the U.S. House of Representatives. See the House map at this link:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-elections/house-results?icid=election_marquee

    I’m not surprised by Hawaii and New England, but New Mexico?

    norcal (a1f318)

  514. If she’s smart Hobbs becomes Hobbema

    urbanleftbehind (2532a7)

  515. Ouch.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  516. @519. See #494. Seems ‘Club For Growth’ talks out of both sides of their mouth. Nothing new there. But then, they not be pals of the populist mind set.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  517. Even before the midterms:

    Just 7 Percent View Mitch McConnell Favorably

    Just seven percent view Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) favorably, down from 31 percent in 2020 when former President Donald Trump was leading the Republican Party. Under McConnell’s tenure as Republican Senate leader, which began in 2007, the national debt has grown nearly $20 trillion, illegal immigration has continued, and real wages for American workers have not risen since the 1970s. Obamacare was enacted in 2010. Big banks were bailed out in 2008, and social media companies have silenced individuals without repercussions. In October, McConnell caved to Democrats’ demands and raised the debt ceiling, enabling Democrats to advance President Biden’s “Build Back Better” agenda.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/09/21/poll-just-7-percent-view-mitch-mcconnell-favorably/

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  518. AZ’s Lake hobbled by Hobbs; loses the prickly cactus fight.

    ‘At a Trump rally in the state last month, Lake made clear she was still fully aligned with the former president: “I have some of these know-nothing consultants who say, ‘You know, you really need to back away from President Trump right now.’ And I say to them, ‘Put down Hunter’s [Biden] crack pipe right now.’”

    Days earlier, Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., urged Arizonans at a forum at Arizona State University not to vote for Lake because of her refusal to accept the upcoming election results should she lose, saying if she lived in Arizona, she would back Hobbs. Cheney’s PAC put more than $500,000 toward an ad in Arizona that targeted Lake and fellow election denier Mark Finchem, who ran for secretary of state. – NBCNews.com

    At least Wyoming wised up and flushed their neocon RINO.

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  519. Club for Growth steps on Trump relaunch with polls showing DeSantis beating him
    ………
    The anti-tax organization, which was once a staunch Trump ally but over the last year has broken with him, on Monday provided POLITICO with a polling memo showing the former president trailing DeSantis by double digits in one-on-one matchups in Iowa and New Hampshire, the first two states on the GOP nominating calendar. …….
    ……….
    According to the polling memo, which is based on survey data conducted Nov. 11-13, DeSantis leads Trump by 11 percentage points in Iowa and by 15 points in New Hampshire. Those numbers represent an improvement for DeSantis since August, when previous Club for Growth’s polling found Trump with a 15-point lead in Iowa, while the two were tied in New Hampshire.

    The memo also says that DeSantis leads Trump by 26 points in Florida and 20 points in Georgia. In August, DeSantis led Trump by 7 percent in Florida and 6 percent in Georgia. The polls, conducted by Republican firm WPA Intelligence, surveyed likely GOP voters.
    ………
    The Club for Growth’s polling memo includes numbers on a potential Trump-DeSantis head-to-head matchup. It does not have data on a crowded field of other potential candidates who could run, such as Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin, former Vice President Mike Pence or Scott.
    ………
    Another recent survey of a 2024 GOP primary, which was conducted by Morning Consult just before last week’s election, showed more favorable results for Trump. According to the poll, Trump led the field with 48 percent followed by DeSantis at 26 percent.

    However, yet another poll taken after the midterms, by YouGov, showed DeSantis leading Trump 41 percent to 39 percent.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (8c6e26)

  520. @527. And yet:

    Club for Growth President Blames McConnell for Lackluster Midterm Showing

    Club for Growth president David McIntosh said during a press conference Wednesday that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) failed to define the midterms as a referendum on President Biden’s agenda and anemic economy. Biden’s low approval rating coupled with months of polling data expressing dissatisfaction with the economy led many pundits and pollsters to predict massive GOP gains in the cycle. That has not quite materialized, though Republicans are expected to take control of the house and could possibly have control of the Senate by one seat.

    https://nationalfile.com/club-for-growth-president-blames-mcconnell-for-lackluster-midterm-showing/

    Which makes the CFG the “Captain Renault” of social media poop-peddlers…

    “I blow with wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy.” – Captain Renault [Claude Rains] ‘Casablanca’ 1942

    DCSCA (9eee2e)

  521. Dana, if you’re still monitoring this thread, my comment #522 is in moderation. (Was it the c*u*c*k*o*o?) Thanks in advance. If not, no one else who is still reading is missing anything special.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  522. I think that Lake had both the Trump kiss-of-death and worry by young women about abortion laws — a Democrat governor could be relied upon to veto bad ones, and to fail to prosecute abortion providers.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  523. former president trailing DeSantis by double digits in one-on-one matchups in Iowa and New Hampshire

    Trump lost Iowa and only got 35% of the vote, at most, in early 20216 primaries. Cruz+Rubio tended to outpoll him.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  524. In October, McConnell caved to Democrats’ demands and raised the debt ceiling, enabling Democrats to advance President Biden’s “Build Back Better” agenda.

    And yet it went nowhere. Anyone who thinks a debt default by the US would be a good thing needs to be taken out and shot.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  525. Lake followers were marching around the vote center reenacting the bibles bring down the walls of jericho! they are even blowing horns!

    asset (0c2b33)

  526. Don’t forget most county and state chairmen are trumpsters now. Also anti trump vote will be split as desatan will have company in the primaries from other ego maniacs. Both trump and desatan will need heavy security from demonstrators and pro-abortion protesters who will mean business.

    asset (0c2b33)

  527. I think that Lake had both the Trump kiss-of-death and worry by young women about abortion laws — a Democrat governor could be relied upon to veto bad ones, and to fail to prosecute abortion providers.

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/14/2022 @ 10:34 pm

    Telling McCain Republicans she didn’t want their votes didn’t help. She’s an idiot.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  528. Lake has political skill, but if she can’t win in this economic environment….against an opponent who refused to debate…then it’s time to admit the deep flaw to her campaign. Just imagine if she had run as a normal Republican, that she did not mock McCain Republicans, that she did not embrace election denialism, that she instead focused on a positive agenda. Ducey won the state going away in much less favorable times, why not let that be the model?

    Politics is a game of addition, not subtraction. You build coalitions so you can get things done. Even if someone is with you 51% of the time, you build on that. The GOP has stepped back every election since 2016. When is the time to try something else…..

    AJ_Liberty (84b9b1)

  529. That’s all she had as her political capital, AJ_Liberty. Election denial, Trump worship, and Kelli Ward. Good looks, good grooming, and a smooth sales patter you can find in every Avon lady.

    nk (fed93b)

  530. @536, AJ, Maybe, just maybe, it was a mistake to put a well spoken but dishonest conspiracy theorist up for governor as an expression of grievance?

    Her attack on McCain and his supporters wasn’t a mistake. It was part of her platform to attack the cultural enemies of her tribe. MAGA doesn’t have a lot of wonky policy goals, telling people they feel enmity towards to GTFO is a main plant of their party.

    Unfortunately, as you pointed out, it’s losing strategy.

    Time123 (90ba10)

  531. Time123 (90ba10) — 11/15/2022 @ 6:53 am

    yes, yes, yes, the arizona GOP should’ve put forth someone like Ducey, someone you and AJ and nk still wouldn’t have voted for LOL

    JF (6ee24d)

  532. Both trump and desatan will need heavy security from demonstrators and pro-abortion protesters who will mean business.

    I really don’t know what to say here, other than “attacking a presidential candidate is a good way to end up in a Supermax.”

    Kevin M (90f346)

  533. JF,

    You really have no idea what the Big Tent GOP looks like ans you any your kindred souls confuse your little cult with a political party.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  534. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, it’s losing strategy.

    What’s amazing is how such a rejectionist platform will came close to 50%. Just think if there was a real center-right party in the mix.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  535. JF,

    Does your binary worldview admit the possibility of people being persuaded by relative moderation?

    Appalled (7a1f3f)

  536. Heh! Kari Lake said it herself. “Arizonans know BS when they see it.”

    nk (fed93b)

  537. yes, yes, yes, the arizona GOP should’ve put forth someone like Ducey…

    Ducey is term-limited so he couldn’t run, but I would’ve voted for him as a write-in over Hobbs or Lake.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  538. JF, Ducey won by double-digits in 2014 and 2018. He’s not an election denier and refused to reverse the election results in 2020 at Trump’s request. Otherwise he’s a pretty conventional Republican….so not unexpectedly, he readily gets GOP votes. If I lived there, I would have gladly voted for him.

    The same insanity happened in Maryland where Larry Hogan endorsed Kelly Schulz over the eventual GOP nominee, and Trump endorsed QAnon crazy, Dan Cox, who eventually….and predictably…got clobbered. This is Trump’s legacy…preferring bad candidates who kiss his hiney….who then lose. But, sure, blame it on someone else.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  539. JF, your point seems to be that the GOP will inevitably lose so might as well support a kook who “pwns the libs”.

    I suppose if I accepted (I don’t) your premise supporting Lake, Dixon, Oz, & a possum that believes the earth is flat makes sense.

    Time123 (5f0e77)

  540. I mean, Martha McSally was a totally generic, McCain-style Republican and a very good candidate on paper. She was the GOP Senate nominee twice and lost twice. Now, maybe the theory is that the Trump effect harms the entire party in AZ, but again, she lost in 2018 while Ducey was winning easily.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  541. She lost twice because Trumpies wouldn’t vote for her. Probably because she threatened their manhood.

    Kevin M (90f346)

  542. Martha McSalley lost the hard Mags and hard sexists, Lake lost the McCain diehards and maybe those who question her one-off Obama support and 2016 Trump hate.

    By very definition that makes Ducey a mainstream Republican, still a minimum SD to the right of average voter. Given McCarthy, McConnell and McDaniel, could you be blamed for casting doubt on Mc… Anything?

    urbanleftbehind (717664)

  543. That was quick…
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/west-virginias-gop-rep-mooney-154224428.html

    If Joe Manchin doesn’t want it anymore, try cutting that goiter out of Fetterman’s neck and planting it near Morgantown.

    urbanleftbehind (717664)

  544. Arizona is a place where you can be elected to Congress by getting your kids to disown you as a Nazi. Running statewide, those voters will not carry you by themselves but they can be spoilers.

    nk (fed93b)

  545. The Tragedy of Kari Lake
    ……..
    …….(T)he Arizona governor’s race……should have been a layup in a midterm with an unpopular Democrat in the White House. Kari Lake ran for an open seat, aiming to replace two-term Republican governor Doug Ducey, one of the very best and most conservative governors in the country…….
    …….
    Yet, (Lake) blew it, losing by 0.8 points. According to the exit polls, Lake lost independent voters by seven points, and lost 9 percent of Republicans and 8 percent of conservatives, while Hobbs lost only 4 percent of Democrats and 2 percent of liberals. Lake did well among Hispanics, winning 47 percent of their vote, but carried white voters by only 50-49, a paltry margin for a Republican, due largely to a seven-point deficit among white women and a whopping 17-point deficit among white voters with college degrees. Among the 57 percent of Arizonans with an unfavorable view of Donald Trump, Lake lost 82 percent to 16 percent. Yet, she also lost 12 percent of voters who disapproved of Biden. Forty-one percent said that Biden was not a factor in their vote, and Lake lost those voters by 38 points. Sixty-three percent said that Biden legitimately won the election; Lake lost those voters 76 percent to 22 percent. Seventy-three percent said they had faith in Arizona elections; Lake lost those voters by 25 points.

    Lake would have won, in other words, if she had ran about as well as a generic Republican in Arizona, and the decisive margin of her defeat came at the nexus of educated, conservative-leaning, and in some cases Republican white people, especially women, who disliked Trump, didn’t believe the 2020 election was stolen, and don’t think Arizona elections are rigged. …….
    ………
    ………You don’t have to like McCain’s politics to recognize that the man never once lost an election in Arizona. In 2000, he beat George W. Bush in the Arizona primary by 25. In 2008, he beat Barack Obama there by 8.5 points. He beat primary challenger J. D. Hayworth by 23 in 2010, and primary challenger Kelli Ward by 13 in 2016. He won his last general election six years ago with 53.7 percent of the vote, running five points ahead of Donald Trump in Arizona. The number of potential Republican voters over 30 in Arizona who have never cast a ballot for John McCain is practically nil. ……..
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  546. So, I saw this photo of Trump at a rally, with some Secret Service folks in the background. Can you imagine anything more disheartening that the possibility of taking a bullet for Donald effing Trump?

    Kevin M (90f346)

  547. So, I saw this photo of Trump at a rally, with some Secret Service folks in the background. Can you imagine anything more disheartening that the possibility of taking a bullet for Donald effing Trump?

    Kevin M (90f346) — 11/15/2022 @ 10:11 am

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Secret Service agents didn’t support Trump, given their contacts with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers before 1/6, the deletion of relevant text messages, and the fact that Tony Ornato was simultaneously White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Secret Service Deputy Assistant Director.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  548. Trump’s negative coattails in competitive House races have been quantified.

    If we focus exclusively on districts where the margin of victory was less than 15 points, such that the seat was conceivably in the balance, the picture that emerges is quite different.

    In these 114 districts, candidates bearing Trump endorsements underperformed their baseline by a whopping five points, while Republicans who were without Trump’s blessing overperformed their baseline by 2.2 points — a remarkable difference of more than seven points.

    And that doesn’t even get into Trump’s Senate sabotage.

    Paul Montagu (b351b8)

  549. @554. So, I saw this photo of Trump at a rally, with some Secret Service folks in the background. Can you imagine anything more disheartening that the possibility of taking a bullet for Donald effing Trump?

    Yes. For an befuddled, 80 year old you-know-who. 😉

    DCSCA (6e5b01)

  550. Breaking Reports, per Fox News: Errant Russian Missile and/or Debris From Missile Destroyed In Flight Land In NATO Poland; sketchy reports say 2 killed.

    Ahhhhh yes. The fog of war. Remember when JFK responded immediately and bombed the SAM site in Cuba that shot down Anderson’s U2? Or when LBJ ordered B-52s to bomb Israel for attacking the USS Liberty? Or when Reagan immediately ordered air strikes on the Kamchatka Peninsula after the Rooskies downed KAL007? Nope.

    DCSCA (6e5b01)

  551. Among the biggest losers of the mid-term elections: “Czar” Putin:

    Dictators and right-wing populists who were hoping that Trump would return to power are sure to be disappointed, while the United States’ democratic allies can breathe a little easier.
    . . .
    In fact, given the Russian army’s dismal combat performance, a U.S. aid cutoff is Vladimir Putin’s best bet to win the war. That helps to explain why the Kremlin once again activated its trolls and bots before Election Day to help the MAGA movement. Russian propagandists even said that Putin avoided announcing the Russian withdrawal from Kherson until the day after the vote so as not to give a lift to Biden and Democrats. Democrats still did well — and Russia did badly.

    (Links omitted.)

    Those here who back Putin — in spite of the terrible damage he has done to both Ukraine and Russia — will be disappointed by the election outcome.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  552. @540 Houston prosecutor says the guy who hit cancun turd crud with beer can sez finding a jury that will convict will be difficult. (DU)

    asset (adb800)

  553. Sigh. The convicting jury is in Assembly Room A. The acquitting jury is in Assembly Room B. Don’t they talk to each other down there?

    nk (5c60ce)

  554. @nk Your humor is brutal, and I love it.

    norcal (a1f318)

  555. 552. Who got elected to Congress that way?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  556. Rip Murdock @480:

    Federal prosecutors in Manhattan had been deciding whether Giuliani, one of Trump’s lawyers and a close adviser, violated lobbying laws when he campaigned for the ouster of then-U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch from Ukraine.

    Giuliani wasn’t a Russian agent. He was a Russian target to get disinformation. Now couldn’t they have figured that out a long time ago?

    Getting MArie Yovanovitch fired didn’t do Putin much good. Mike Pompeo, who had tried to prevent that, simply replaced her with someone good, although only as charge d;affaires

    Putin needed to lobby to put someone else in. But that never would succeeded.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  557. 552. Who got elected to Congress that way?

    Paul Gosar.

    nk (5c60ce)

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