Patterico's Pontifications

8/25/2022

Election Deniers And The Primaries

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:58 pm



[guest post by Dana]

During an interview on ABC This Week, Liz Cheney explained how her future goals include working to keep election deniers out of office:

“I’m going to be very focused on working to ensure that we do everything we can not to elect election deniers,” she said during a discussion of her future on ABC’s “This Week.”

“We’ve got election deniers that have been nominated for really important positions all across the country,” she added. “And I’m going to work against those people. I’m going to work to support their opponents.”

Cheney said that she would get involved in campaigns against Republican candidates who are challenging or denying the results of the 2020 election, including her GOP colleagues in Congress.

From what I’ve seen, Republicans are motivated to vote for an election denier-liar candidate because they too embrace Trump and his Big Lie. Another reason – although I don’t know to what extent it plays out – is that while voters might agree that Joe Biden is the legitimate president, they believe that voting against a Democrat supersedes everything else – even if it means voting for a candidate that peddles lies about the 2020 election. It goes without saying that neither group sees any real risk to our nation’s future or well-being by the increased number of elected MAGA figures in the GOP.

Here is a clip of Cheney responding to the Trump spokesman who claimed that the principles that she is fighting for are not the principles of (today’s) Republican Party. An absolutely damning statement:

The New York Times reported this week that more than 200 primary candidates for state and federal office were endorsed by Donald Trump. The 2022 primaries have 159 election denier-liars running for office. Out of that 159, 127 candidates won their primaries thus far, with 16 having been defeated. There are 16 more candidates still in the running. Here is a closer look at the election deniers/liars:

The unifying thread through the majority of Mr. Trump’s endorsements has been a candidate’s willingness to help him spread the lie that he won the 2020 presidential race. Many of these candidates either took concrete actions to subvert the election, such as voting in Congress or state legislatures to delay certification of the vote, suing to overturn results or backing partisan reviews of the ballot count. Others made clear public statements in political ads, social media posts or on the campaign trail that expressed doubts about the 2020 election.

Liz Cheney certainly has her work cut out for her. The importance of said work should not be minimized, given that it will take efforts like this to start to turn the Republican Party around and get back to foundational principles. You know, the ones that Trump’s spokesman says are now irrelevant.

–Dana

116 Responses to “Election Deniers And The Primaries”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. I wish Ms. Cheney success.
    Like with her, I won’t vote for or support any Republican in the batsh-t wing.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  3. Like with her, I won’t vote for or support any Republican in the batsh-t wing

    Self-loathing lament.

    Welcome to 1964.

    DCSCA (e3e791)

  4. I wish her luck in her next grifting opportunities.

    whembly (b770f8)

  5. What has Liz Cheney said in the interview and video that makes you view her as a grifter, whembly? Please be specific.

    Dana (1225fc)

  6. Here is one candidate she should be working against.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  7. Liz doing what she can to elect leftists. She belongs at the Grifter Project.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  8. So anyone who agrees that Biden was legitimately elected is automatically a leftist?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  9. I dunno. The party that agrees the president has the discretion NOT to enforce immigration law, but doesn’t have power to actually ENFORCE that law, seems like a pretty dangerous party to vote for.

    The party that agrees the president has the discretion NOT to ignore federal lending law, selectively for favored constituencies, seems like a pretty dangerous party to vote for.

    The party that agrees the president has the discretion to retroactively revoke “executive privilege” and document classification decisions seems like a pretty dangerous party to vote for.

    The party that slips authority to regulate the breath you exhale (containing CO2) as a EPA-monitored pollutant into a funding bill labeled (without evidence) as an inflation reduction measure, seems like a pretty dangerous party to vote for.

    The party that throws away war-won territories in one year only to involve us in an (another?) unwinnable “land war in Asia” the very next year, without (as usual) a Congressional declaration of War? Dangerous business.

    I’m not so much worried about “our democracy” (we’re a republic, anyhow) as I am rule of law and respect for the constitution.

    I guess that makes me a dangerous extremist.

    Pouncer (feafd4)

  10. Pouncer (feafd4) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:07 pm

    None of which is an answer to the question concerning the legitimacy of Biden’s election. Those are policy differences.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  11. Pouncer, I agree with most of your criticisms of Biden. He has bad policies. He sucks.

    Presidents/parties with bad policies can be voted out at the next election, but not if there is a policy to deny election results.

    norcal (da5491)

  12. Bombshell:

    “Trump pushed for vaccine approvals too fast” is the worst possible critique of the Trump administration’s COVID policy. That probably saved a lot of lives. If anything approval should have been faster. Also, the late 2020 push from liberal public health elites that persuaded Pfizer to *change* its original protocols – and had the convenient side-effect of delaying any vaccine announcement until after the election – deserves more scrutiny.

    Nate Silver today on Twitter

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  13. Liz doing what she can to elect leftists. She belongs at the Grifter Project.

    It’s mind-boggling that Cheney can be accused of being a grifter and working to elect leftists when Trump is still making bank off of the biggest political grift of our time and has repelled so many Republicans by his unethical and illiberal efforts to overturn an election that they have been compelled to leave the party. Indeed, some feel that voting for a Democrat in order to keep MAGA Republicans out of office has become necessary. That’s how badly Trump’s grift has impacted any number of voters.

    When someone criticizes a politician for sacrificing their political career to protect and defend the Constitution and that’s seen by Republicans as a grift, then that reveals the deep corruption and moral collapse of the Republican Party.

    Dana (1225fc)

  14. When someone criticizes a politician for sacrificing their political career to protect and defend the Constitution and that’s seen by Republicans as a grift, then that reveals the deep corruption and moral collapse of the Republican Party.

    Or at least that of the “someone.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  15. Indeed, some feel that voting for a Democrat in order to keep MAGA Republicans out of office has become necessary.

    Which makes Princess Daughter Darth, heir to the a Halliburton war profiteering fortune, a swampy, smelly, Establishment Royalist, just like you-know-who:

    Biden slams Republican platform as ‘semi-fascism’ at Democratic campaign rally

    In his first campaign-style event, President Biden on Thursday made the argument to vote for Democrats by slamming the Republican platform as “semi-fascism.” Mr. Biden’s remarks came at a Democratic National Committee fundraiser in Rockville, Maryland, a left-leaning municipality just north of Washington, D.C. The event, which took place at a local high school, kicked off the aggressive midterm campaign season, which is a little more than two months away.

    In sharp remarks, he also railed against Republican ideas, party lawmakers and former President Donald Trump, who is expected to run for election in 2024. He depicted Republicans as extremists, calling them “the ultra-MAGA party,” referencing Mr. Trump’s campaign slogan, “Make America Great Again.” – https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/25/joe-biden-slams-republican-platform-semi-fascism-d/

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (0720cb)

  16. @5

    What has Liz Cheney said in the interview and video that makes you view her as a grifter, whembly? Please be specific.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:01 pm

    What makes you think she has any electoral chances in a future Republican party?

    The idea that she’s on this altruistic “warpath” against candidates who are challenging or denying the results of the 2020 election, after being obliterated in her very own state’s primary as the incumbent candidate in an EXTREMELY Republican electorate of her state… strikes me as hopelessly naïve.

    She’s seeking a lane to remain relevant and somehow determined that her role must be nothing more than a hall monitor within the GOP party. Watch her spearhead a PAC, or the likes, to support her efforts and who would be funding it.

    I’m very suspicious of any politicians claiming some principled high-ground in the face of an electoral loss.

    If it turns out that she’s spending her very own money, in a philanthropist manner, I will eat crow and state that I was wrong. Until then, I’m going to continue judging her.

    Continuing to belabor Trump’s faults, the 2020 elections and even J6 is falling into a trap perpetuated by our political oppositions as it drowns out the oxygen over the “Here & Now™”.

    The Here & Now™ are issues that we must face together. Because if we don’t, the downward spiral this country may become irrevocable.

    To your point:

    Another reason – although I don’t know to what extent it plays out – is that while voters might agree that Joe Biden is the legitimate president, they believe that voting against a Democrat supersedes everything else – even if it means voting for a candidate that peddles lies about the 2020 election. It goes without saying that neither group sees any real risk to our nation’s future or well-being by the increased number of elected MAGA figures in the GOP.

    I’m not MAGA.

    I’m anti-Democrats.

    I will vote for Trump, or someone that the Democratic party hates JUST to prevent them from having any power.

    I can honestly say, that the Democrats have done far FAR worse, than any GOP or Trump transgression.

    Whatever faults Trump has had, and boy he has a bevy of them – still pales in comparison to what Democrats has & will wrought that will take generations for the center-right to address.

    Democrat’s play to win.

    It’s time for us to play the same game.

    whembly (b770f8)

  17. Which makes Princess Daughter Darth, heir to the a Halliburton war profiteering fortune, a swampy, smelly, Establishment Royalist,

    DCSCA (0720cb) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:27 pm

    This sounds like a comic book narrative. All you need is an illustrator.

    norcal (da5491)

  18. @8

    So anyone who agrees that Biden was legitimately elected is automatically a leftist?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:06 pm

    That would be strange, as I do believe he was legitimately elected.

    I *do* think there were a lot of unfair shenanigans during 2020 due to ad-hoc covid regulations and others. But, those were the rules of the game and everyone understood them, so that sense, the election was legit.

    But, I ain’t no leftie.

    whembly (b770f8)

  19. @16. Shorter: she’s a Neocon

    The consummate war mongering grifters, now banished to the trash heap of history.

    DCSCA (0720cb)

  20. I’m very suspicious of any politicians claiming some principled high-ground in the face of an electoral loss.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:30 pm

    Ordinarily this statement would have some merit, but Cheney did not take a principled stand because she lost. She lost because she took a principled stand.

    She could have coasted to re-election if she had gone along with Trump’s “stolen” election claims. This isn’t even disputable.

    norcal (da5491)

  21. @13

    It’s mind-boggling that Cheney can be accused of being a grifter and working to elect leftists when Trump is still making bank off of the biggest political grift of our time and has repelled so many Republicans by his unethical and illiberal efforts to overturn an election that they have been compelled to leave the party. Indeed, some feel that voting for a Democrat in order to keep MAGA Republicans out of office has become necessary. That’s how badly Trump’s grift has impacted any number of voters.

    When someone criticizes a politician for sacrificing their political career to protect and defend the Constitution and that’s seen by Republicans as a grift, then that reveals the deep corruption and moral collapse of the Republican Party.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:22 pm

    We’re just going to have irreconcilable differences of opinions about this.

    To your point that Trump is “grifting” over a stolen election… I don’t care.

    I really don’t care if/when Liz Cheney is “grifting” to her mission to campaign against other GOP candidates. That is absolutely her prerogative and at a 30,000ft view – a bare knuckled intra-party fight is a healthy fight.

    What I *do* care, and vehemently disagree with, is that Cheney is seen as someone who sacrificed her political career to protect and defend the Constitution. I think she misread her political chances to climb the political ladders (she was thought to be a Presidential candidate at one point)and chose to double-down when it became obvious that she burnt every bridge within her party.

    whembly (b770f8)

  22. Continuing to belabor Trump’s faults, the 2020 elections and even J6 is falling into a trap perpetuated by our political oppositions as it drowns out the oxygen over the “Here & Now™”.

    The person who continues to “belabor” election denial is Trump himself, the leader of the GOP and 2024 frontrunner. As a Republican, I reject him and all those who are going along with his election fraud hoax. Trump’s stance is damaging to country and party, and I’ll have none of it. Cheney is right in this situation, and it’s regrettable that majority in the party has taken a different path.
    This doesn’t mean I’ll support a Democrat. In November, there will be several blank entries or votes for 3rd party candidates.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  23. @8

    So anyone who agrees that Biden was legitimately elected is automatically a leftist?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:06 pm

    That would be strange, as I do believe he was legitimately elected.

    Not in the context of NJRob’s comment at #7.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  24. She lost because she took a principled stand.

    So ‘principled’ she voted w/Trump 93% of the time. Recognize an Establishment Royalist when you see one. “We The People” flusher her; demnocracy voted her out; ‘We The People’ are flushing Neocon bums like her down the drain. Inflation doesn’t bother her; wars never touch her- you’ll never see Haliburton Princess Daughter Darth camo up and head to Ukraine. Neocon be gone!

    DCSCA (a18f1a)

  25. @24

    More comic book rhetoric. You’re missing your calling, DCSCA.

    norcal (da5491)

  26. @25. They seem to quill a lot of them-there comic books when kicked out of office and power, don’t they. Catch’em at the next NeoconCom where they’ll sign copies and pose for selfies along with other has-been stars. ‘Tis all the rage for the bottom-of-the-deckers.

    DCSCA (a18f1a)

  27. ‘She lost because she took a principled stand.’

    A 66% to 32% for an incumbent is a defeat; it’s a drubbing; she got has ass kicked into solar orbit. And your implication suggests 2 out of 3 voters in the great state of Wyoming have no principles. Seems they have a vote instead- such is the doubled-edged sword of democracy- and slayed the Neocon who voted with their party leader 93% of the time. The Neocon credo: live by the sword; die by the sword– as long as it’s your kid and not mine.

    DCSCA (a18f1a)

  28. It seems Zuckerberg just admitted that the last election was rigged by the FBI on Joe Rogan’s show.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  29. sheesh while being interviewed on Joe Rogan’s show.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  30. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/aug/25/joe-biden-slams-republican-platform-semi-fascism-d/

    And this was the swamper who was going to bring people together.

    Just another Joe-Lie in August.

    DCSCA (a18f1a)

  31. Whembly, Trump’s attempt to steal the election, the lies about fraud, and the support of the same by the GOP is a “here and now” issue to me. You’ll likely see it as relevant as soon as a dem tries to do the same.

    Time123 (0a4b9c)

  32. L;est you forget: August 25, 2021. Another Joe-Lie remembered:

    ‘We’re going to do everything that we can to provide safe evacuation for Americans, our Afghan allies, partners, and Afghans who might be targeted because of their association with the United States.’

    DCSCA (a18f1a)

  33. It’s mind-boggling that Cheney can be accused of being a grifter and working to elect leftists
    Dana (1225fc) — 8/25/2022 @ 4:22 pm

    yes, mind boggling

    Jamie Raskin Vows That Liz Cheney Will “Follow Trump to the Gates of Hell”

    In the earliest days of the January 6 Committee, Congresswoman Liz Cheney invited Congressman Jamie Raskin, her colleague on the panel, to her office. Raskin couldn’t help but immediately notice what stood out amid the décor: “This huge Stalinesque portrait of Dick Cheney right over the receptionist desk when you enter.”

    Raskin looked up at the visage of the former vice president and quipped, “Oh, I’ve got one of those too.” Cheney burst out laughing. This was one of many moments the two members of Congress have shared over the years as the two have built an unlikely odd couple friendship. What unites them now—and continues to keep them together—is a passionate antagonism for Donald Trump, and a sincere worry that American democracy is on the precipice of dissolution.

    Jamie Raskin was one of many Democrats who objected to the ratification of the 2016 election results.

    Other election deniers were Sheila Jackson Lee, Barbara Lee, James McGovern, Raúl Grijalva, and of course Pelosi.

    Liz isn’t going after them, she’s joining them.

    Yes, grifter.

    JF (0ebcb2)

  34. This isn’t hard.
    Bill Barr was one of the Trumpier Trumpists out there, willing to lie about the contents of the Special Counsel’s report, but he drew a line at Trump’s Big Fat Stinking Lie about electoral fraud.
    Liz Cheney’s line was J6.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  35. @28, your summary of Zuckerbergs statement is deeply dishonest. Are you being deceitful on purpose or were you taken in by someone else’s misrepresentation?

    Time123 (0a4b9c)

  36. To be fair, Biden did “steal” the election. He just did it by time-tested means: the press on his side, a better [lying] message, the idiocy of his opponent, and a few good breaks (e.g. the vaccine arriving 2 weeks late).

    The votes? Those they counted fairly.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  37. Trump supporters calling Liz Cheney a grifter is Al Capone’s boys calling Elliot Ness a gangster. And the bottom line is: “Consider the source!”

    nk (58186c)

  38. Is there anyone here who thinks, had Cheney “gone along” — not supporting the coup but not speaking out against it either — that she would not have won the primary by 40 points?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  39. So to say that she lost on any other issue is bollocks.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  40. Has anyone even asserted another specific complaint?

    Time123 (3f10ec)

  41. House Democrats led by
    @SpeakerPelosi
    are careening from one impeachment theory to another. First it’s collusion, then it’s Justice Kavanaugh, now back to
    @realDonaldTrump
    . This time they can’t even wait 24 hours to see the transcript.

    Lesson: Evidence doesn’t matter to them.

    Source

    JF (0ebcb2)

  42. Has anyone even asserted another specific complaint?

    You must be using the filter.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  43. Lesson: Evidence doesn’t matter to them.

    Evidence is not the central issue in impeachment.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  44. BREAKING: Mark Zuckerberg tells Joe Rogan that Facebook algorithmically censored the Hunter Biden laptop story for 7 days based on a general request from the FBI to restrict election misinformation.

    https://twitter.com/minds/status/1562927481945980928?s=21&t=HOMd6AqM00-m4BkPa21J9Q

    There are conservatives who think Jan 6th was worse.

    Obudman (c69a0b)

  45. This isn’t hard.
    Bill Barr was one of the Trumpier Trumpists out there, willing to lie about the contents of the Special Counsel’s report, but he drew a line at Trump’s Big Fat Stinking Lie about electoral fraud.
    Liz Cheney’s line was J6.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/25/2022 @ 6:11 pm

    It isn’t even the least bit difficult to both not trust and trust Barr in the same sentence?

    BuDuh (22dab8)

  46. Political director of texas right to life Luke Bowen arrested for soliciting sex from minors including pregnant teens! (crooks & liars)

    asset (3c66a9)

  47. Just when you think the QAnon political niche is empty….

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  48. @36

    @28, your summary of Zuckerbergs statement is deeply dishonest. Are you being deceitful on purpose or were you taken in by someone else’s misrepresentation?

    Time123 (0a4b9c) — 8/25/2022 @ 6:17 pm

    No buddy.

    The Colonel is pretty spot on.

    I watched the entire Rogan episode.

    Zuckerberg admitted that the FBI warned his company to be “on high alert of a Russian information dump”.

    He did say that he regretted how he handled it.

    The FBI had no business of tasking Facebook this. If the FBI had some real evidence of Russian disinformation, then THEY can publicly release that information. Frankly, I suspect there’s more to this as Zuckerberg

    What Zuckerberg just admitted to, is that they acted as if an agent of the state.

    whembly (b770f8)

  49. Per Merriam-Webster:

    : to obtain (money or property) illicitly (as in a confidence game)
    intransitive verb: to acquire money or property illicitly

    It’s Trump, not Cheney, who is the very definition of a grifter.

    Dana (1225fc)

  50. It isn’t even the least bit difficult to both not trust and trust Barr in the same sentence?

    Difficult what? Even a dishonest hack line Barr drew a line.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  51. Whembly, I listened to the relevant excerpt on Rogan. There was nothing specific about Hunter’s Golden Laptop, it was a general caution, in the context of what Putin did four years earlier.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  52. From 5/10/21:

    The Big Lie Is That Cheney Is Still A Republican

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2021/05/10/draft-n2589154

    DCSCA (c66ed3)

  53. @36… often wrong but never in doubt.

    Deeply.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  54. Whembly, plenty to discuss with what was actually said. But its not remotely close to CHs claim that he admitted the election was rigged.

    Time123 (9d509c)

  55. @52 and @55:
    Guys, you’re missing the point.

    I would encourage you to watch/listen the whole episode.

    We can quibble over if the FBI is “election interference”. That is a fair debate.

    Based on Zuckerberg’s recounting, we do know for a fact that the FBI gave FB “something” that he claimed it was a general warning about election misinformation. Keep in mind that he has every incentive to describe this “warning” as benign as possible.

    Even then, he flat out admitted that he regretted how he and FB handled it, particularly in context of Rogan’s query over the suppression of Hunter’s laptop.

    Which was true after all, and Zuck’s response screams a boilerplate CYA. Again, he has EVERY incentive to mitigate this.

    Think about the implications of that in the context of the 2020 election, please.

    You have a company that is well over 95% liberal/democrats and the FBI came knocking to give his staff the pretext they needed to suppress a bad Biden story.

    I’m going to reiterate this again – the FBI had no business intervening in this manner. If the FBI has the deets, they don’t need Facebook to do the “dirty work”. They can publicly announce it.

    What this does, is further gives ammo that the FBI (leadership at least) is hopelessly a partisan entity.

    whembly (b770f8)

  56. Haiku, whembly, Pouncer et al…

    Zuckerburg certainly tossed quite the word salad in responding to Rogan. I think it was careful word salad rather the random eminations we get from Biden.

    Rogan asked specific questions that Zuckerburg answered generally. Rogan asks about the Hunter Biden story, Zuckerburg answers with the FBI coming to them about general warnings of FBI disinformation coming down the pike, which (I think) caused facebook to apply its algorithims to the Hunter Biden laptop story.

    That’s not good — the FBI is trying to muscle Facebook into semi-censorship of an inconvenient true story. That’s not throwing the election in any meaningful sense. After all, the laptop story was introduced to the world by Rudy G — the least trustworthy tool in the Trump toolbox — and the story was frankly bizarre. As usual, the focus in the pro-Trump media was the salacious stuff (a mistake) and the bits of potential Big Guy malfeasence got drowned out.

    So no — no rigging of the election here. But it reflects very poorly on the FBI.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  57. #57

    I think we said about the same thing. Though we come at it differently…The FBI really does need to stop playing politics. It makes their credibility easy to ruin. Trump firing Comey (who is exemplified a lot of this behavior) was a good move. Even Hillary Clinton would agree to that.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  58. Trump’s FBI after three-and-half years in office, under a Trump-appointed Director. And you wanted to reelect this hapless boob?

    nk (bfe0a8)

  59. “Putin is a strong leader. He has control of his country.”

    Did this guy even have control of his TV remote? Or did Kellyanne change the channels for him?

    nk (bfe0a8)

  60. whembly (b770f8) — 8/25/2022 @ 9:16 pm

    What Zuckerberg just admitted to, is that they acted as if an agent of the state.

    Zuckerberg said that the FBI didn’t specifically ask them to do anything, but claimed this story fit the pattern of Russian disinformation – now if it had been true, you would have wanted them to say somethiing (incidentally, Facebook and oters just removed some loe circulation pro-western anti-China and pro-Ukraine accounts, but didn’t say who they thought was really behhind that, only that they were faking identity)

    Zuckerberg said they were better than Twitter. Twitter said you couldn’t share the New York Post story at all and suspended the New York Post’s account, but Facebook just limited sharing of the story for about a week. He said their protocol is different from Twitter and was pretty reasonable, although it sucks (for the New York Post) , like being put on trial and being found innocent still sucks. They got a lot of complaints on the other side that they were letting people share it during the 5 to 7 days while they were determining whether the story was false.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  61. 39, Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/25/2022 @ 6:25 pm

    Is there anyone here who thinks, had Cheney “gone along” — not supporting the coup but not speaking out against it either — that she would not have won the primary by 40 points?

    She would have retained her leadership position had she voted against the impeachment resolution impeaching Trump after January 6, 2021, and that would have prevented a strong challenge.

    There were too many House Republicans who voted to accept the Electoral votes for Trump to start a campaign against all of them.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  62. 62… FBI whistleblowers also claim they were ordered to keep their hands off the laptop story. FBI had been in possession of the laptop for a number of months by that time.

    Sh*tbirds.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  63. The Cspan transcript his barnburner yesterday has some issues due to Biden’s mumbling. One part that is accurate I bolded:

    We’re gonna get done folks. Look, will codify roe v wade. Well, Bennett will ban us all. Weapons will protect Social Security. Medicare will pass universal pre K will restore the child care tax credit will protect voting rights, will pass a luxury for and make no, make sure no one no one ever has an opportunity to steal an election again.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?522491-1/president-biden-remarks-democratic-national-committee-rally

    Video at the link.

    Which stolen election is he talking about?

    BuDuh (210775)

  64. The FBI took possession of the original laptop in December, 2019, which, as has been pointed out, was well before the election and before Joe Biden’s status as the presumptive nominee became established in March.

    Note: I think they didn’t realize that the Delaware computer store owner still had the recovered files on his server — and they even needed his help to read what they got, since the drive was not bootable and Had to be installed as second drive)

    This does look like an attempt to avoid finding a legal problem for any Biden (or, put another way, a way for the FBI not to get in trouble with the Democrats, whom they feared more than the Republicans.)

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  65. 2020, BuDuh…

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  66. I guess he technically mumbled that he was going to prevent the “opportunity.” Which election had wide spread opportunity to steal that same election? There must be some pretty overwhelming data to back such a claim or he enters Big Lie territory, IMO.

    BuDuh (210775)

  67. Biden spoke inartfully. (He means that Trump had the opportunity to try to steal the 2020 election.)

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  68. Trump didn;t have the votes, or the people in position, to actually steal the 2020 election.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  69. According to Senator Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.), a whistleblower claims that FBI officials told investigators not to look into Hunter Biden’s laptop before the 2020 presidential election, saying they’re “not going to change the outcome of the election again.”

    “These new allegations provide even more evidence of FBI corruption and renew calls for you to take immediate steps to investigate the FBI’s actions regarding the laptop,” the senator wrote in a letter to Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz on Tuesday that detailed the whistleblower’s claims.

    Between Zuck’s ramblings about the FBI influencing Facebook and the whistleblower speaking to Sen Ron Johnson, it’s clear the FBI was using its power to shape the election in favor of Biden.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  70. Sammy@8:41 see my 8:41.

    Isn’t that a Big Lie unless he can present verifiable evidence, widespread or otherwise?

    BuDuh (210775)

  71. Bari Weiss has an interview up with Bill Barr.

    (I just skimmed parts of it, and make no judgement on it, but those who are more interested in the subject than I am may want to read it, or listen to it, since Weiss usually has something worthwhile to say.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  72. FBI put their institutional thumb on the 2020 presidential election scale.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  73. Worthwhile Bari Weiss:

    “Then we were told … ‘You get the vaccine and you get back to normal.’ And we haven’t gotten back to normal. And it’s ridiculous at this point … If you believe the science, you will look at the data we did not have two years ago. You will find out that cloth masks do not do anything. You will realize you can show your vaccine passport at a restaurant and still be asymptomatic and be carrying Omicron. And you will realize most importantly that this is going to be remembered by the younger generation as a catastrophic moral crime.”

    https://nypost.com/2022/01/24/im-done-with-covid-bari-weiss-on-bill-maher-sparks-uproar/amp/

    Maybe you can email her your Covid death count diary, Jim?

    BuDuh (210775)

  74. Biden;s big lie is a bunch of other stuff about Republicans, although calling the Republican Party semi-fascist (if by that you mean half of them don’t want to honor honest elections) isn’t that far off the mark.

    And then there’s the BIG LIE that we face a climate catastrophe, which, however, can be avoided by switching to electric cars by 2035 or 2036, and easily lowering carbon dioxide emissions in the United States of America. (maybe in Canada and Europe too)

    I think the floods and droughts (which are the problem) are probably caused by increased emissions of di-hydrogen monoxide anyway And if you think heat is an emergency you have to take more direct action at geo-engineering, like spewing sulfur dioxide over the Arctic or fertilizing the Pacific Ocean with iron.

    Or, on another matter, puttin plastic balls or sheets or something in the Caribbean to prevent hurricanes

    https://freakonomics.com/2012/11/another-look-at-an-unorthodox-hurricane-prevention-idea

    One of Britain’s leading marine engineers, Stephen Salter, emeritus professor of engineering design at Edinburgh university and a global pioneer of wave power research, has patented with Microsoft billionaires Bill Gates and Nathan Myhrvold the idea of using thousands of tyres lashed together to support giant plastic tubes which extend 100m deep into the ocean.

    We are right oow at the peak of the hurricane season – August 25 to September 2.t

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  75. NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/26/2022 @ 8:45 am

    it’s clear the FBI was using its power to shape the election in favor of Biden.

    Actually, it was trying to avoid influencing the election.

    Even because of a legitimate investigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  76. The Hunter Biden Laptop story was always a nothingburger.
    It showed Joe’s son to be a drug-addicted loser who may or not get indicted for his own sleazy conduct.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  77. The MAL search warrant affidavit has been released.

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  78. @58 Appalled, I’m with you here, especially your last sentence.

    whembly (b770f8)

  79. 78… this totally dismisses the evidence of these sordid pay for access/play financial dealings and the 10% for-the-BIG-Guy that has been known since October-2020.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  80. BS Sammy.

    Your conclusions don’t exist in nature and you throw them out as if they are fact.

    NJRob (4162d9)

  81. Haiku,

    More importantly, it deliberately ignores the 25% of Biden voters who acknowledged their vote would have changed if they knew about the laptop before the election. The FBI put their entire agency on the scales of justice to tip it over.

    NJRob (4162d9)

  82. Sorry,
    16% of Biden voters. I gave the rest entirely too much credit.

    https://thepostmillennial.com/flashback-16-of-biden-voters

    NJRob (4162d9)

  83. 76… it’s amusing when the stone fascists on the left rail and whine about the “near-fascism” on the right.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  84. Whembly, I’m taking Zukerberg at his word that the FBI’s warning was general and the he viewed them as a credible institution.

    His choice to have the company respond to questionable material by limiting it’s reach in those circumstances is servile, but a legitimate choice on his part. They didn’t need a pretext to slant how information is presented on their site. They have a 1A right to be as biased/even handed as they please. As does Fox/MSNBC/OAN/this site.

    Listening to LEO and doing what they ask is controversial (BLM and NJRob strongly oppose it) but it’s a valid choice. Had he expressed reservations or implied that he was coerced I’d feel differently about it. As I would if the FBI had provided a warning about a specific story.

    I’m sure he does regret it, but cause it was controversial and the information turned out to be legitimate. But I don’t think his action was unlawful. I also don’t think reducing the share rate on a widely reported story for a week in early Oct constitutes ‘rigging’ an election.

    Time123 (99a687)

  85. More importantly, it deliberately ignores the 25% of Biden voters who acknowledged their vote would have changed if they knew about the laptop before the election. The FBI put their entire agency on the scales of justice to tip it over.

    NJRob (4162d9) — 8/26/2022 @ 10:05 am

    Based on everything that’s known so far the FBI’s warning was about misinformation generally. Not this specific story on information helping / harming a specific candidate. How is that tipping the scales of justice?

    Time123 (99a687)

  86. I’m not an election denier. I believe Biden received 81 million votes. What I don’t believe is he received them from 81 million individual voters

    Horatio (d85fd2)

  87. @89, So you’re an election denier.

    Time123 (99a687)

  88. 88… Rob, this was the big story, which would’ve been termed the “October Surprise” had the FBI not strangled it in the crib.

    The FBI knew what was on the hard drive and nothing else came close in its potential adverse impact. This one was the reason the FBI told Zuckerberg to back away. I’d wager several other tech companies heard the same “request”.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  89. I find it hard to believe that Trump got eight million more votes running against Biden than he got running against Hillary. It contradicts nature.

    If anybody’s vote total was faked, it was Trump’s. But his casinos got him too used to betting on points, and he did not realize that shaving them would not be enough this time. He had to win the game,

    nk (bfe0a8)

  90. Whembly, I’m taking Zukerberg at his word that the FBI’s warning was general and the he viewed them as a credible institution.

    It is important to pay careful attention to that interview segment. Zuck is less coy at the beginning. Rogan asks about the laptop story. Zuck speaks to that story, the FBI’s warning of a dump, and his company taking a different approach than Twitter. It is remarkably clear that the laptop story is what he was talking about. It is at the end when Rogan asks if the FBI asked specifically about the laptop to which Zuck says “no.. I don’t know…”

    I would like to find a transcript of that entire interaction to figure out how others are concluding that a conversation about FBI involvement in the suppression of the laptop story, that concludes that with Zuck saying “I don’t know,” is something about some-something that was generally speaking about something, at best.

    Seems like a stretch to get there.

    BuDuh (210775)

  91. It really is an incredible interview. Zuck says the Feds gave them a warning about “something.” He notes that when “something” is reported to them they qualify it through their fact checkers.

    How did that conversation go with the fact checkers?

    FBI “I need you to look into something.”

    Zuck fact checkers “Certainly, what would that something be?

    FBI “Well… all I can say is ‘something’”

    Zuck fact checkers “are you sure this isn’t about ‘nothing’”

    FBI: “‘Nothing?’ Third base!”

    Even vauldville would not write something so stupid for their fans to consume.

    The fact checkers needed to work off a specific complaint and Zuck said the FBI came complaining.

    BuDuh (210775)

  92. Anyone underwhelmed by the affidavit?
    It looks like its going to boil down to did he/how did he/can he declassify with a wave of his hand?

    Who approves the presidents time card?

    Joe (76eaa3)

  93. There’s nothing in the affidavit unredacted that provides any justifications.

    More and more, it looks like the raid was an accidental missile launch by zealots in the Biden administration. Now they’re scrambling to reverse engineer justification.

    In the affidavit, the DOJ acknowledged that Trump’s lawyers and former officials pointed to his “absolute authority to declassify documents” as president.

    If the DOJ explains why they ignored that point, their rationale is completely hidden behind the redactions.

    whembly (b770f8)

  94. The bottom line, though, is that the person who did most to defeat Trump was Trump. None of the media games, or issues like the laptop would have mattered one little bit had Trump not told his loyal voters that casing an early or absentee ballot was being disloyal.

    Trump gave Biden and the Democrats 30 election days, to his one, to get out the vote. Having lost by the barest of margins, it is ALL HIS FAULT. The reason all those late-counted absentee votes went for Biden is not because the Deep State cheated, but because Trump was a dumbass.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  95. Should the president have “absolute authority to declassify documents”? Should codeword secrets require a second signature, like the relevant Cabinet secretary or intelligence chief?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  96. Yes… the bottom line. I always forget about the bottom line.

    My apologies to the Feds and Facebook. Please continue sculpting elections at full speed. Nothing to see here.

    BuDuh (210775)

  97. @89, So you’re an election denier.

    Not by my definition

    Horatio (d85fd2)

  98. “Seems like a stretch to get there.”

    Yes, but they are remarkably flexible from all that bending over.

    Colonel Haiku (c1c91e)

  99. Should the president have “absolute authority to declassify documents”? Should codeword secrets require a second signature, like the relevant Cabinet secretary or intelligence chief?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/26/2022 @ 11:48 am

    According to this court decision, he doesn’t:

    Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot “simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary,” that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot “simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary,” that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. The Shiner affidavits, in addition to justifying the two FOIA exemptions, expressly stated that no declassification procedures had been followed with respect to any documents pertaining to the alleged covert program. Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails. …….. Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails.

    Rip Murdock (ee7171)

  100. Here are the current classification/declassification regulations.

    Rip Murdock (ee7171)

  101. Correction to post 102 excerpt:

    Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot “simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary,” that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. The Shiner affidavits, in addition to justifying the two FOIA exemptions, expressly stated that no declassification procedures had been followed with respect to any documents pertaining to the alleged covert program. Moreover, the Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails.

    Rip Murdock (ee7171)

  102. Re :105

    Stupid question on part….
    Why must the president follow established procedures?

    What happens if he doesn’t? Getting impeached again?
    Sorry to be snarky with the last one. But either he/she has ultimate authority of he/she doesn’t. Sort of why i asked who approved his time card.

    Sincerely asked.

    Joe (76eaa3)

  103. @102-105
    At best, I think it’s murky, as it’s not really explicitly clear.

    I think the debate need to be solved at SCOTUS and I don’t think Trump is going to find 5 Justice to support him. I think they’ll say that POTUS must, at the very least, document declassification orders.

    That’s why I asked in a different thread whether or not you believe in the Unitary Presidency Theory – in that, the Article 2 power is inherent in the person holding the office and that power is delegated to subordinate in the executive branch.

    whembly (b770f8)

  104. @97 I totally agree with that.

    Had Trump NOT shut down the country, I think the election would’ve been a cake walk for him. But he did shut it down, and he deserves just criticism over that.

    whembly (b770f8)

  105. …16% of Biden voters.

    There’s no way to drill down and see the actual MRC poll from your link because the link to The Federalist re-routed to somewhere else, but I did find the poll, and this was the question they asked…

    At the time you cast your vote for president, were you aware that evidence exists, including bank transactions the FBI is currently investigating, that directly links Joe Biden and his family to a corrupt financial arrangement between a Chinese company with connections to the Chinese Communist Party that was secretly intended to provide the Biden family with tens of millions of dollars in profits?

    No mention of a laptop, just a loaded question filled with lots of allegations.
    MRC is rated as “Low Credibility”, with good reason it seems.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  106. Whembly, Whether the large number of documents in Trumps possession were declassified also seems to be a matter of fact as well as law. He had the authority to declassify them while he was president, but he also had the authority to move them around. So president trump could put classified documents in his basement, but former president trump couldn’t keep them there.

    It might make conviction difficult, but I think the government is justified in taking control and inventory of a large number of documents marked as classified when the former president refused to return or properly secure them.

    If Trump is able to show that he was fully aware of all the documents he had and that he had declassified them would agree with you that the raid wasn’t justified.

    One thing the NAR letter makes clear is that they were trying to get the documents back and Trump was not willing to work with them on that. The government can classify documents in the public domain. Even if he’d properly de-classified them the government has the authority to re-classify them and it doesn’t appear that they’re using that authority to ‘trap’ him in this.

    Time123 (99a687)

  107. @109:

    So is the argument he “improperly” declassified them?
    I agree that if they were reclassified they may try to take them, but would they not make that argument in the warrant or affidavit? Would it not be a much “cleaner” argument to make?

    Joe (76eaa3)

  108. The argument appears to be that he was in possession of classified material he did not have the authority to possess.

    Time123 (68681b)

  109. @111 It looked like it was full of bait and switch. Used “classified” and “top secret” to justify search emotionally, but used Presidential Records & flawed used of criminal statutes to justify it legally.

    And ZERO information supporting the old assertion that he had nuclear information. So, I plead with all of you, when you read something from the media, it’s likely a leak designed to oversell or mitigate what’s actually happening.

    whembly (b770f8)

  110. “It’s a pity they can’t all lose.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  111. The worst thing for Trump in all this is the idea that the FBI is assessing “damage” done by Trump possessing these documents. If, for example, his retention of sensitive material led to it being exposed to 3rd parties, not to mention hostile 3rd parties, a whole new avenue of legal problems opens.

    It doesn’t help to have Natasha Badenov, or whatever her name was, wandering about the place.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  112. Americans have their POTUS pegged as Mister Magoo and their DoD led by Captain Peachfuzz.

    Now the heads of the FBI and DOJ are properly pegged as well:

    “Look! Is moose and squirrel.” – Boris Badenov

    DCSCA (66917f)

  113. 112. whembly (b770f8) — 8/26/2022 @ 1:02 pm

    @111 It looked like it was full of bait and switch. Used “classified” and “top secret” to justify search emotionally, but used Presidential Records & flawed used of criminal statutes to justify it legally.

    Classification, especially e=certain sub-categories of it, indicates that it could be important national defense information.

    And ZERO information supporting the old assertion that he had nuclear information. So, I plead with all of you, when you read something from the media, it’s likely a leak designed to oversell or mitigate what’s actually happening.

    I have always assumed that that was a distortion of something real.

    Sammy Finkelman (418659)


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