Patterico's Pontifications

8/22/2022

Report: Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents At Mar-a-Lago

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:51 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Ah:

The U.S. government has recovered more than 300 documents with classified markings from former President Donald Trump’s Florida estate, including material from the CIA, the National Security Agency and the FBI, the New York Times reported on Monday, citing multiple people briefed on the matter.

An initial batch of more than 150 documents marked as classified was recovered by the U.S. National Archives in January, the newspaper reported. Aides to Trump gave the U.S. Justice Department a second set in June, while a third batch was seized in an FBI raid earlier this month, it said.

[…]

During its search, the FBI seized 11 sets of classified materials at Mar-a-Lago, some of which were labeled “top secret” – the highest level of classification reserved for the most closely held U.S. national security information and which can only be viewed in special government facilities.

According to the report, neither Trump nor the Justice Dept. have responded to a request for comment.

Trump filed a lawsuit today to block the DOJ from reviewing the documents seized from Mar-a-Lago in August:

“We have just filed a motion in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida strongly asserting my rights, including under the Fourth Amendment of our Constitution, regarding the unnecessary, unwarranted, and unAmerican Break-In by dozens of FBI agents, and others, of my home, Mar-a-Lago,” Trump posted on his Truth Social platform Monday.

Per Trump’s lawyers:

Law enforcement is a shield that protects America. It cannot be used as a weapon for political purposes. Therefore, we seek judicial assistance in the aftermath of an unprecedented and unnecessary raid” at Mar-a-Lago.

After the lawful search at Mar-a-Lago in August, Trump and his allies had claimed that the former president had a “standing order” to declassify any materials taken from the Oval Office to Mar-a-Lago.

Oops:

But 18 former top Trump administration officials tell CNN they never heard any such order issued during their time working for Trump, and that they believe the claim to be patently false.

Stay tuned…

–Dana

244 Responses to “Report: Trump Had More Than 300 Classified Documents At Mar-a-Lago”

  1. Yikes.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. I’ll just wait to hear from his supporters here.

    nk (03e61e)

  3. They just won’t leave that poor man alone.

    I mean, he did nothing–apart from taking classified documents on his begrudging way out of office–to warrant this.

    It’s simply outrageous.

    norcal (da5491)

  4. Trump’s lawsuit is a little late. The FBI’s filter team has been reviewing the documents since August 9th.

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  5. the unnecessary, unwarranted, and unAmerican Break-In

    unprecedented and unnecessary

    I see they left out “unwarranted” as it was indeed “warranted.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  6. Drip …. drip …. drip ….

    Some men would give up here, but not our Donald….

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  7. Documents at Mar-a-Lago Marked ‘Classified’ Were Already Declassified, Kash Patel Says

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/05/documents-mar-a-lago-marked-classified-were-already-declassified-kash-patel-says/

    DCSCA (1f8fdd)

  8. Are movers and packers internally or hired at outsourced firms by the GSA screened to handle classified documents???

    “Yikes!”

    DCSCA (1f8fdd)

  9. “they seized evidence of a crime from us, and they cannot be allowed to continue evaluating that evidence until they can prove that a crime was committed without using that evidence.”

    i never thought i’d see conservatives fall over themselves to support an extreme version of the exclusionary rule like this.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  10. aphrael (4c4719) — 8/22/2022 @ 8:51 pm

    They aren’t conservatives, but the term for them does start with a “c”.

    norcal (da5491)

  11. Documents at Mar-a-Lago Marked ‘Classified’ Were Already Declassified, Kash Patel Says

    Maybe, but there has to be some kind of documentation, not post hoc claims. Even a handwritten note by Trump or one of his staff members saying, “the material in these boxes have been declassified” would be sufficient, as long as it was when he was still legally President. That was why Hillary’s claim that her server was authorized for her to use was a lie, because she never produced even an MFR or note from Obama saying, “yeah, this is fine” that confirmed it.

    The one caveat here are documents that he actually wrote himself. If they contained classified material, he’d still be considered the OCA on those as the ex-President, at least until he passes, and could declassify them. But even at that, they have to have their markings crossed out and some kind of documentation indicating when that happened, not a post hoc declaration just because they got taken by the FBI. The ones NOT produced by him would have the office of origin as the OCA, because he wouldn’t have that power anymore to do so since he’s no longer President.

    Regardless, he could have saved himself the headache by simply keeping them in a securely locked room with his other Presidential papers that the GSA packed up, instead of in his pool house, if the reports are to be believed.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  12. Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/22/2022 @ 8:56 pm

    If I had mishandled just one classified document when I had a security clearance, I would have encountered some unpleasant consequences.

    norcal (da5491)

  13. Trust me, aphrael, that’s not any version of the exclusionary rule, extreme or otherwise; and it’s not directed at conservatives, it’s directed at people in need of conservatorship.

    nk (03e61e)

  14. it’s directed at people in need of conservatorship

    nk, thank you for making me laugh on a consistent basis.

    norcal (da5491)

  15. If I had mishandled just one classified document when I had a security clearance, I would have encountered some unpleasant consequences.

    norcal (da5491) — 8/22/2022 @ 9:04 pm

    Same here. I’ve seen people get their computers confiscated to be wiped for opening an email that had a classified document in it, even though they didn’t actually send the email (how classified docs get spilled over from sipr to nipr always amazed me). The swells have always had some kind of leeway, though.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  16. If I had mishandled just one classified document when I had a security clearance, I would have encountered some unpleasant consequences

    You’re not the POTUS; nor a GSA packer stuffing boxes full of papers to move under a deadline. This government classifies way too much extraneous crap. And it does it simply to maintain power over We The People.

    DCSCA (2d07b0)

  17. “We have just filed a motion in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida strongly asserting my rights, including under the Fourth Amendment of our Constitution, regarding the unnecessary, unwarranted, and unAmerican Break-In by dozens of FBI agents, and others, of my home, Mar-a-Lago,” Trump posted on his Truth Social platform Monday.

    Randomly capitalizing the phrase “Break-In” is peak Trump.

    JVW (020d31)

  18. Some men would give up here, but not our Donald….

    Some senators are can’t do-ers: ‘Our Donald’ is a can-doers:

    Biden says he ‘can’t do much’ about rising gas prices, blames Russia

    https://nypost.com/2022/03/08/biden-says-he-cant-do-much-about-gas-prices-blames-russia/

    BIDEN FINALLY ADMITS HE CAN’T DO ANYTHING TO STOP COVID-19

    https://defconnews.com/2021/12/27/biden-finally-admits-he-cant-do-anything-to-stop-covid-19/

    Biden Says He Can’t Lower Food and Gas Prices

    https://dallasexpress.com/biden-says-he-cant-lower-food-and-gas-prices

    “You’re now commanding officer! You’ve got four hours to break through to that beachhead. If you don’t make it, I’ll fire you!” – G.S. Patton [George C. Scott] ‘Patton’ 1970

    DCSCA (2d07b0)

  19. Thanks to Trump’s media flunky, John Solomon, we have the full NARA letter to Trump, and it’s not a good thing for Trump.

    “In its initial review of materials within those boxes, NARA identified items marked as classified national security information, up to the level of Top Secret and including Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Program materials,” Wall wrote. “NARA informed the Department of Justice about that discovery, which prompted the Department to ask the President to request that NARA provide the FBI with access to the boxes at issue so that the FBI and others in the Intelligence Community could examine them.”

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  20. Trump’s legal filing is not going to go over well.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  21. @19. Thanks to Trump’s media flunky, John Solomon, we have the full NARA letter to Trump, and it’s not a good thing for the flunkies at General Services Administration… or bumbling Attorney General Barney Fife.

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (2d07b0)

  22. Solomon has a huge (unmentioned) conflict of interestas a “journalist” writing about this story, given that he was appointed by Trump (along with Kash Patel) to represent him in dealings with the National Archives.

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  23. Emptywheel is less than impressed also.

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  24. Here’s Trump’s Motion for Judicial Oversight and Additional Relief. It’s blather. The government should respond with a counter-petition under the Environmental Protection Act to abate a public nuisance.

    The problem with representing Trump is that the law must come behind his bombast, his ego, and his abysmal ignorance. Furlongs behind. Always. Because those are the things his followers like.

    nk (03e61e)

  25. Lots of leaking from the government.

    Is it correct that Biden revoked Trump’s claim of executive privilege initiating this sequence of events?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  26. Is it correct that Biden revoked Trump’s claim of executive privilege initiating this sequence of events?

    No, it is not. Biden waived executive privilege for White House documents in the National Archives sought by the January 6 Committee.

    A totally different thing that in no way initiated this chain of events. What initiated this chain of events is Trump filching government property, hiding it in his cellar, and not hiding it well enough.

    nk (03e61e)

  27. I’ll just wait to hear from his supporters here.
    nk (03e61e) — 8/22/2022 @ 7:13 pm

    I’m still waiting to hear from the biden superfans if “a reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

    the Trump Indictment Clock still hasn’t budged

    how long are you folks gonna sit on the pot?

    JF (914e4b)

  28. So if what’s been reported (based in part on statements from Trump) is accurate.

    He took a lot of classified documents with him.
    Some of them were classified/S/TS/SAP
    The government found out that he had some classified material.
    The government tried to work with him to get a full accounting & return of classified material, including a subpoena.
    Trump did not return the classified documents, or provide a justifications for why he didn’t need to.
    The FBI CI division executed a search warrant.

    If what’s reported is accurate then it’s looking as if the warrant was justified, and the DOJ may have been too deferential to Trump.

    Time123 (4f7944)

  29. Nk,

    how is that different? You saw how open ended the FBI warrant was. It was going after any documents of Trump’s which is the same as the National Archives.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  30. So if the pretty lady in the short skirt had only agreed to go to the motel with him, Trump would not have needed to drag her to behind the dumpster in the alley?

    nk (03e61e)

  31. Those darn walls are closing in…

    Again!

    Colonel Haiku (d388c0)

  32. The Jan 6th protest – with trespassing – didn’t work as an outrage generator, so attacks on other fronts will continue.

    Colonel Haiku (d388c0)

  33. NJRob, Here’s a readable copy of the letter the national archive sent to Trumps lawyers. Seems pertinent to your question and appears to show that Biden’s waiving privilege didn’t start this chain of events.

    Interesting information also. Not sure why Jon Solomon released it.

    https://twitter.com/angry_staffer/status/1562021723414855681?s=21&t=x-1YBvKQCgZJHbDY2NcCtw

    Time123 (bf5487)

  34. It’s really impressive when one lawyer has a gmail.com email address and the other two aren’t even allowed to practice law in Florida.

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  35. What it comes down to, with both Hillary and Trump, is a failure of spy craft.

    You don’t download Top Secret documents to a server in your bathroom in Chappaqua or Anthony Wiener’s laptop, and you don’t cart off 45 boxes of hard copies to Mar-a-Lago.

    What you do is photograph them with a miniature camera, convert them to microdots, and adhere the microdots to sequins on Huma’s and Melania’s G-strings.

    No wonder we won the Cold War.

    nk (03e61e)

  36. In the NYT’s reporting, this part is relevant…

    The specific nature of the sensitive material that Mr. Trump took from the White House remains unclear*. But the 15 boxes Mr. Trump turned over to the archives in January, nearly a year after he left office, included documents from the C.I.A., the National Security Agency and the F.B.I. spanning a variety of topics of national security interest, a person briefed on the matter said.

    Mr. Trump went through the boxes himself in late 2021, according to multiple people briefed on his efforts, before turning them over.

    The highly sensitive nature of some of the material in the boxes prompted archives officials to refer the matter to the Justice Department, which within months had convened a grand jury investigation.

    * Trump’s media flunky, John Solomon, shed some light on the contents of those 15 boxes when he released the May 10, 2022 letter from the National Archives to Trump’s lawyer.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  37. So the DOJ and FBI can’t explain their actions to the American people because the investigation is ongoing… and then the DOJ and FBI selectively leaks to its media operatives (e.g., Haberman) about the investigation.

    Totes okay, yes!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (81c05d)

  38. Could Trump Talk Himself into an Indictment?
    ………
    I have never believed that the Biden Justice Department wanted to charge former president Trump with criminal offenses over his retention of records from his presidency. There are many reasons for this, but significantly, the difficulty of proving a crime at trial is not one of them. Proving illegality on the facts as we understand them would be a lay-up.

    That is why Trump could easily talk himself into being charged if he’s not careful. …….
    ……….
    ………[T]his is how Main Justice and the FBI see things: Trump had no right to retain these records; the retention of highly classified intelligence in an insufficiently secure setting was both illegal and irresponsible; the government had been trying to get him to return this stuff for over a year; there was no reason to believe he would return all the records voluntarily; there was apparently (according to the search warrant) reason to believe Trump would destroy (or already had destroyed) records; and therefore, if the government did not take them forcibly by warrant, the records would never have been returned and preserved as the law mandates.

    Moreover, Justice Department officials undoubtedly believe that Trump, despite his complaining, is being given favorable treatment. ……
    ………
    If a suspect is out publicly claiming that the prosecutors, the FBI, and the government generally are corrupt — e.g., that they planted incriminating evidence, lied to court, illegally seized privileged materials, and so on, there is apt to be strong pushback within the DOJ. I assure you that prosecutors and agents whose honor has been besmirched are certain to be pleading with their supervisors to let them charge the case so they can demonstrate to the public that they carried out their duties appropriately and that it is the suspect who willfully violated the law.
    ……..
    ……..I’m betting that if AG Garland really wanted to prosecute the former president for illegally retaining records, the Justice Department would already have charged him, probably at the same time the FBI executed the search warrant, or shortly afterward.

    Trump, however, could talk his way into being charged. Every time he publicly attacks the Justice Department’s integrity in this matter, he is strengthening the hand of DOJ officials who are surely urging the attorney general to green-light an indictment.
    ##########

    Emphasis in original.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  39. If I had mishandled just one classified document when I had a security clearance, I would have encountered some unpleasant consequences.

    Depending on circumstances, you might have just been fired and blackballed. Of course, if you had shown them to someone else….

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  40. Randomly capitalizing the phrase “Break-In” is peak Trump.

    It’s not random. He’s telling folks the proper terms to use.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  41. The specific nature of the sensitive material that Mr. Trump took from the White House remains unclear*. But the 15 boxes Mr. Trump turned over to the archives in January, nearly a year after he left office, included documents from the C.I.A., the National Security Agency and the F.B.I. spanning a variety of topics of national security interest, a person briefed on the matter said.

    The relevance: why did the NSA, CIA and FBI FAIL to keep track of their files? WHY did the GSA not flag them when packing up the papers? 15 boxes too much work? Too much overtime? Or are they fvck-ups. Do these super-secret-bureaucrtaic bunglers just runoff hundreds of copies of files, stamp them ‘secret’ and let them loose in the bureaucracy or are the small runs properly numbered and tracked? Is this the bureaucratic mind set at the SCOTUS? [Where’s the leaker?]

    You know why? Because it’s a government of paper shuffling bureaucratic fvck-ups who classify the menus at their respective cafeterias and can’t keep track of important stuff, that’s why. Hell, they lost JFK’s brain.

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (ad67bd)

  42. Finger-pointing between Trump and the GSA:

    ………
    Trump spokesperson Taylor Budowich said Trump had “great care” for the handling of presidential records and blamed the General Services Administration, which manages and supports the basic functioning of federal agencies, for a haphazard move.

    “President Trump has great care for the importance of presidential records and presidential record keeping, so much so that both himself and his representatives have spent nearly two years painstakingly working with appropriate entities to ensure any items improperly moved by the General Services Administration were appropriately returned,” Budowich said in a written statement.

    The GSA said in a written statement that “the responsibility for making decisions about what materials are moved rests entirely with the outgoing president and their supporting staff.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  43. The GSA said in a written statement that “the responsibility for making decisions about what materials are moved rests entirely with the outgoing president and their supporting staff.”

    A written statemewnt??? What form did they use? Was it in triplicate? Was it sent to the National Archives, too? By USPS snail mail or FedEx? How many copies made and was it stamped ‘classified?’

    Bullsh-t. How else would a faceless, bumbling bureaucracy full of paper-pushers respond.

    DCSCA (ad67bd)

  44. Ms. Alina Habba Habba is definitely the hottest in Trump’s Miss Defense Team Pageant. Going by his dog’s breakfast of a filing, he’s in the best of legal hands.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  45. I know that Trump would rather try this in the press, as he loves the press’ attention, but he can make all these arguments to a judge and jury. Or, if in DC and he’s not a complete idiot, in a bench trial.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  46. It seems that Saddam Hussein was more honest in turning over WMDs than Trump has been with documents.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  47. “Real reporter John Solomon has the bombshell of the day: Biden personally signed an executive order in may written by former WH counsel John Wu in which he “revoked” Declassification of the documents in Trump’s possession so they could refer the case to DOJ as criminal matter, not a negotiation with the archivist. The least of Biden’s problems is getting caught lying about prior knowledge. Mr. Boring President sure likes breaking norms and destroying faith in “justice” as administered by the current Executive Branch. What an asshole Brandon has turned into!”

    —- Mike (MJB Wolf)

    Colonel Haiku (81c05d)

  48. make that John Su, not Wu.

    Colonel Haiku (81c05d)

  49. David Kay, Who Debunked Presence Of WMDs In Iraq, Has Died

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/david-kay-iraq-dead_n_6303b696e4b0f72c09d98893

    DCSCA (ad67bd)

  50. CH, can you provide some proof of that? Because the letter from the archives that Jon Solomon shared says nothing of the sort.

    Time123 (33a2c8)

  51. CH, can you provide some proof of that? Because the letter from the archives that Jon Solomon shared says nothing of the sort.

    Time123 (33a2c8) — 8/23/2022 @ 11:39 am

    It’s probably classified …….:)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  52. Recall, we were supposed to have a government of limited and express powers, with checks & balances. The federal government has become a cancerous behemoth, ever metastasizing. Think the national debt/federal reserve, CIA, NSA, DOJ and that Joe Biden/Dem congress just authorized eighty thousand (87,000) new IRS agents (recall Lois Lerner?)

    The federal government is too big,
    it has too many secrets,
    it tells too many lies,
    it engages in too much mischief,
    and there is too little to no accountability.
    (Recall Ruby Ridge? Idaho v. Horiuchi, 255 F.3d 359 (9th Cir. 2001) – https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/fknxqxvw/court-of-appeals-for-the-ninth-circuit/state-of-idaho-v-lon-t-horiuchi/ )

    See Edward Snowden – Why He Risked Everything
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j67vCmvMXYE

    See Washington DC (aka the SWAMP): Congressional gang of 8 wants to see the FBI affidavit and Trump’s evidence against them – contained in the confiscated documents from Mar-a-Lago raid
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/22/report-congressional-gang-of-eight-wants-to-see-fbi-affidavit-and-trumps-evidence-against-them-contained-in-confiscated-documents-from-mar-a-lago-raid/

    Recall, Judge Lynn Hughes simple, but very true comments from his decision in
    U.S. v. Edwin P. Wilson, 289 F. Supp. 2d 801 (SD, TX, 2003)
    https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/289/801/2430886/
    _______________

    [@ 809] Honesty come to the government. …
    * * *
    {@ 815] In the course of American justice, one would have to work hard to conceive of a more fundamentally unfair process with a consequentially unreliable result than the fabrication of false data by the government, under oath by a government official, presented knowingly by the prosecutor in the courtroom with the express approval of his superiors in Washington.

    The government may not excuse its presentation of false testimony by claiming that (a) it did not know, (b) it did not understand what other agencies knew, or (c) it believed the testimony. It cannot use these excuses because they are not the law and the facts do not support them. See Mesarosh, et al. v. United States, 352 U.S. 1, 77 S. Ct. 1, 1 L. Ed. 2d 1 (1956); Giglio v. United States, 405 U.S. 150, 92 S. Ct. 763, 31 L. Ed. 2d 104 (1972); and United States v. Mason, et al., 293 F.3d 826 (5th Cir.2002).
    * * *
    _______________________

    Recall, all the LIES & LIARS about the Trump/Russia collusion? Turned out, there was NONE and the main actual culprit (joined by legions of SWAMP creatures) was Hillary Clinton.

    Recall, all the LIES & LIARS about the Hunter Biden laptop from hell being more Russian disinformation? Turned out, that those fifty (50) former high level U.S. intelligence officials LIED!

    Recall, Past is usually prologue.

    Liberty & Truth require constant vigilance. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (d22d9d)

  53. More about the GSA’s role:

    GSA press secretary Christina Wilkes said in a statement to CNN on Sunday that the agency only helps with moving “government owned furniture within the complex,” adding that the White House chief usher coordinates the first family’s move out of the East and West Wings.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  54. CH, the Solomon links (like this) were about executive privilege, not declassifying documents.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  55. So, the PRA was taken to court in 2012 with Judicial Watch wanting access to Bill Clinton’s tapes, that Clinton took as personal:
    https://casetext.com/case/judicial-watch-inc-v-natl-archives-records-admin

    MEMORANDUM OPINION

    AMY BERMAN JACKSON, District Judge.
    Plaintiff Judicial Watch, Inc. brings this action against defendant National Archives and Records Administration (“NARA”) under the Administrative Procedure Act (“APA”), 5 U.S.C. § 701, et seq. Plaintiff asks the Court to declare audiotapes created by former President William Jefferson Clinton and historian Taylor Branch during the Clinton administration to be “Presidential records” under the Presidential Records Act (“PRA”), 44 U.S.C. § 2203(f), and to order defendant “to assume custody and control” of them and deposit them in the Clinton Presidential Library. Plaintiff contends that defendant has acted arbitrarily and capriciously under the APA by failing to exercise control over the audiotapes and by not making them available in response to a Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) request. Defendant has moved to dismiss [Dkt. # 6] under Fed.R.Civ.P. 12(b)(1) for lack of subject matter jurisdiction and 12(b)(6) for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

    The Court will grant the motion to dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)(1) because plaintiff’s claim is not redressable. NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as “Presidential records,” NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right, duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy would be available to redress plaintiff’s alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiff’s characterization of the materials. Since plaintiff is completely unable to identify anything the Court could order the agency to do that the agency has any power, much less, a mandatory duty, to do, the case must be dismissed.

    Looks to me it wasn’t appealed, and Judge Jackson stated that there is no basis in the statute or elsewhere for judicial review of those decisions.

    Looks like all of this is ripe for controversies that higher courts would need to resolve.

    whembly (b770f8)

  56. I think the issue boils down to this:

    What does POTUS have to do to declassify stuff? What is the ministerial act, if any, to accomplish that?

    Remember, POTUS has ultimate classification authority, but what does that really mean?

    Much of the arguments stems from whatever answers you believe from the aforementioned questions.

    whembly (b770f8)

  57. @53. Pfft. More, more: The GSA typically handles the packing and moving of the West Wing while US Secret Service and residence staff oversee other parts of the executive complex move out. Due to strict coronavirus protocols at the time and heightened security in the aftermath of the January 6 insurrection at the US Capitol, Trump aides said there was a shortage of trained movers and staff available to help with the process. “There were major pandemic staffing issues,” said one Trump adviser.

    Bungling, bullshi-tting bureaucrats.

    “Once the rockets are up who cares where they come down; that’s not my department says Wernher Von Braun.”- Tom Lehrer

    DCSCA (e44384)

  58. Guess that bust of Churchill, those WH pens and letter openers, stapler, cufflinks and Mamie Eisenhower’s super-secret-classified-recipe for meatloaf- a favorite Trump meal– better be returned to the National Archives PDQ!

    DCSCA (e44384)

  59. @58. Recognize true evil: Biden’s a bum. Has been for half a century.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  60. A year ago, today: August 23, 2021

    Staggering Costs – U.S. Military Equipment Left Behind In Afghanistan

    The U.S. provided an estimated $83 billion worth of training and equipment to Afghan security forces since 2001. This year, alone, the U.S. military aid to Afghan forces was $3 billion. Putting price tags on American military equipment still in Afghanistan isn’t an easy task. In the fog of war – or withdrawal – Afghanistan has always been a black box with little sunshine. Not helping transparency, the Biden Administration is now hiding key audits on Afghan military equipment. This week, our auditors at OpenTheBooks.com reposted two key reports on the U.S. war chest of military gear in Afghanistan that had disappeared from federal websites.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/08/23/staggering-costs–us-military-equipment-left-behind-in-afghanistan/?sh=5aa35fac41db

    And where is the watch-checking beach bum today? Building a wall on our dime around the border of his beach house [the hell with America’s southern border, eh, Joey?] Licking ice cream cones… and maybe getting a blood transfusion or two.

    _______

    And what classified crap did Biden leave behind in Afghanistan?

    A year ago today, August 23, 2021: Taliban spokesperson Suhail Shaheen indicated that they would be unwilling to extend the 31 August 31 deadline for withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan. The same day, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), William J. Burns, held a secret meeting in Kabul with Taliban leader Abdul Ghani Baradar, who returned to Afghanistan from exile in Qatar, to discuss the 31 August 31 deadline. -source, wiki timelineofhumiliatingcollapse.biden.bum

    DCSCA (e44384)

  61. CH, I think that’s based on the letter from the national archive, in which case the assertions aren’t supported by the facts.

    Time123 (33a2c8)

  62. @62. Has the NA found JFK’s brain they lost yet? Neil Armstrong kept a bag of historic artifacts from the Apollo 11 spacecraft, property of the U.S. government – all stamped, numbered and easily traceable, in his clothes closet for over 40 years– his wife found them– after his death.

    These pencil-necked government department paper pushers are incompetent.

    So hire 87,000 more, eh Joey?

    DCSCA (e44384)

  63. Whembly, I think you’re right that will be the key question as part of any trial. But if it’s accurate the Trump never asserted the material in question had been declassified while he was in office (and the letter from the national archive makes no mention of that) I don’t think the question has any bearing on if the search was legitimate.

    The government knew he had highly classified material. They knew he wasn’t storing it securely. They didn’t know the extent of what he had. They’d asked for it back and he’d refused. At this point it looks as if the search was justified even in light of his former office.

    Time123 (162584)

  64. The government knew he had highly classified material. They knew he wasn’t storing it securely. They didn’t know the extent of what he had. They’d asked for it back and he’d refused. At this point it looks as if the search was justified even in light of his former office.

    Bullsh-t.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  65. floriduh just banned dictionaries in schools! (DU)

    asset (b4cd8b)

  66. The government packs up a bunch of crap in haste, including papers tagged ‘classified’ and not properly tracked by the agencies that issued them, ships them off to a guy’s house- then claims he’s keeping papers they sent there in error by their own incompetent bungling.

    “Bank Error in your favor. Collect $100.” – Monopoly Chance card, Parker Bros., 1935

    DCSCA (e44384)

  67. floriduh just banned dictionaries in schools! (DU)

    Top Gov!

    DCSCA (e44384)

  68. “The problem with Turley and his writing and opinions is he still pretends that the United States is still governed by the rule of law, or that there is such thing as an impartial judge. The law doesn’t apply to the DOJ, the FBI, the IRS, established Dem and GOP politicians, nor the MSM.

    Laws don’t even apply to the way elections are run in this country. The only citizens required to obey the laws are the serfs.

    Once you accept that reality, it becomes much easier to see the truth and analyze what is REALLY going on. At this point, I don’t think you can even call it cynicism. It’s just reality.”

    —- Gusty Winds

    Colonel Haiku (81c05d)

  69. What does POTUS have to do to declassify stuff? What is the ministerial act, if any, to accomplish that?

    Remember, POTUS has ultimate classification authority, but what does that really mean?

    Much of the arguments stems from whatever answers you believe from the aforementioned questions.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/23/2022 @ 12:13 pm

    When Trump tweeted about a covert CIA program arming Syrian rebels in July 2017, the New York Times filed a FOIA request with the CIA for details, but was told the Agency “could neither confirm nor deny 10 the existence or nonexistence of such records.” Subsequently, after the Times sued the CIA, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2020 that:

    ……..
    ……Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures. Moreover, courts cannot “simply assume, over the well-documented and specific affidavits of the CIA to the contrary,” that disclosure is required simply because the information has already been made public. …..Moreover, the
    Times cites no authority that stands for the proposition that the President can inadvertently declassify information and we are aware of none. Because declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures, that argument fails. …… [W]e decline to hold that the judiciary may conclude that certain executive branch statements may trigger inadvertent declassification because such determinations encroach upon the President’s undisputedly broad authority in the realm of national security.
    ……..

    Footnotes omitted.

    Here is the current Executive Order concerning Classified National Security Information.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  70. Biden approval rises to 41%, highest since early June, Reuters/Ipsos finds

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. President Joe Biden’s public approval rating rose this week to its highest level since early June, following a series of legislative wins for his Democratic Party, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll completed on Tuesday.

    The bum’s been on vacation for two weeks. Outta sight, outta mind, outta camera range, outta trouble, eh, Joey? Imagine how popular you’ll be when you’re outta office.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  71. Sec. 3.3. Automatic Declassification. (a) Subject to paragraphs (b)–(d) and (g)–(j) of this section, all classified records that (1) are more than 25 years old and (2) have been determined to have permanent historical value under title 44, United States Code, shall be automatically declassified whether or not the records have been reviewed. All classified records shall be automatically declassified on December 31 of the year that is 25 years from the date of origin, except as provided in paragraphs (b)–(d) and (g)–(i) of this section. If the date of origin of an individual record cannot be readily determined, the date of original classification shall be used instead.

    So 25 years or less from now, this is a non-issue.

    Which reaffirms the motives for the Mar-A-Lago Raid as a wholly political act.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  72. DCSCA

    And who has been on screen all week? Hint — he looks kind of orange and lies a whole lot.

    Appalled (e7b9eb)

  73. @74. And it’s not by accident. The master media manipulator has been living in a lot of heads for 18 months – and in news director editorial meetings, rent free, all week.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  74. The National Archives has released an even easier to read copy of their letter to Trump that’s not on Twitter.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  75. how is that different? You saw how open ended the FBI warrant was. It was going after any documents of Trump’s which is the same as the National Archives.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/23/2022 @ 6:38 am

    That’s false.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  76. OT= Breaking:

    Paul Pelosi gets 5 days in jail, 3 years of probation in DUI

    ‘SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The husband of U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi pleaded guilty Tuesday to misdemeanor driving under the influence charges related to a May crash in California’s wine country and was sentenced to five days in jail and three years of probation.

    Paul Pelosi already served two days in jail and received conduct credit for two other days, Napa County Superior Court Judge Joseph Solga said. Paul Pelosi will work eight hours in the court’s work program in lieu of the remaining day, Solga said during Paul Pelosi’s sentencing, which he did not attend.’

    https://news.yahoo.com/paul-pelosi-gets-5-days-172535841.html

    DCSCA (e44384)

  77. DCSCA:

    And the result is an increase in Biden’s popularity. Not Biden’s vacation, but the people getting a good look at the likely opposition.

    Appalled (e7b9eb)

  78. CH, can you provide some proof of that? Because the letter from the archives that Jon Solomon shared says nothing of the sort.

    Time123 (33a2c8) — 8/23/2022 @ 11:39 am

    Here is where the implication that Biden was involved somehow:

    Mr. Solomon, appearing on Tuesday on a podcast run by Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s former White House aide, tried to suggest that Ms. Wall’s letter somehow implicated President Biden in the struggle over the classified documents. At one point in the letter, Ms. Wall told Mr. Corcoran that Mr. Biden had agreed with her and others that Mr. Trump’s attempts to assert executive privilege over the materials were baseless.

    But the letter never indicated that Mr. Biden was in charge of the decision rejecting Mr. Trump’s claims of privilege or that he had anything to do with the search of Mar-a-Lago, as Mr. Solomon suggested.

    In fact, the letter could further implicate Mr. Trump in a potential crime. It confirmed, for instance, that the former president had kept at Mar-a-Lago documents related to Special Access Programs, some of the nation’s most closely held secrets, before the F.B.I. searched the property.

    Strike Three!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  79. @78 As o.j. simpson said when he was found not guilty. America is great you can get all the justice you can afford!

    asset (b4cd8b)

  80. @79. And the result is an increase in Biden’s popularity. Not Biden’s vacation…

    Except it is: until he shows up on camera and puts his foot in his mouth. Catching Covid twice [something he said wasn’t possible after his multiple jabs] hiding, and vacationing all month speaks volumes: do nothing.

    When he cancels college loans, watch it plummet w/middle class suckers who did the right thing and been paying theirs off — and bump up w/t 18/24 year olds– who never vote. Hey joey, howzabout helping out w/Mastercard and Visa? Cancel debt for the rest of us and buy my vote, too. 😉

    DCSCA (e44384)

  81. …but the people getting a good look at the likely opposition.

    Like “Top Gov”???

    ROFLMAOPIP

    DCSCA (e44384)

  82. Drip …. drip …. drip ….

    Some men would give up here, but not our Donald….

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/22/2022 @ 7:44 pm

    Kevin, do I assume correctly you agree now that this opinion:

    The “crime” they allege in the warrant is one that is never prosecuted in cases like this. A simple lawsuit demanding the return of documents, with the US Marshals executing the resulting court order is they way this should have been handled.

    As much as I dislike Trump, this is crap. Garland is crappier than Trump. Hard to believe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 5:23 pm

    was hasty and ill-considered?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  83. Hey DCSCA,

    Biden’s poularity increases. You say vacation taking him off screen. I say Trump crowding off the screen and reminding everyone that THIS is the GOP. (Hey — I do agree with Eric Trump about some things.) It’s not impossible we’re both right.

    Best way to tell — Biden won’t stay on vacation forever, but Trump is likely to contnue crowding the news space. Let’s see where Biden’s ratings go.

    Appalled (1f9b07)

  84. @85. Best way to tell — Biden won’t stay on vacation forever

    Certain way: review his collapsing numbers since August, 2021, when he blew it w/Afghanistan.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  85. @84

    The “crime” they allege in the warrant is one that is never prosecuted in cases like this. A simple lawsuit demanding the return of documents, with the US Marshals executing the resulting court order is they way this should have been handled.

    As much as I dislike Trump, this is crap. Garland is crappier than Trump. Hard to believe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 5:23 pm

    was hasty and ill-considered?

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 2:18 pm

    Garland is either “the patsy” covering for someone in the Whitehouse or he’s the architect.

    Neither is good.

    whembly (b770f8)

  86. @85. Record High Number of Americans Think Country Is on Wrong Track, Poll Shows

    [P]olling by Morning Consult and Politico, which was conducted from June 26 to 29, found that 75 percent of voters believe the U.S. is on the wrong track, while just 25 percent believe things are headed in the right direction.

    https://www.newsweek.com/record-high-number-americans-think-country-wrong-track-poll-shows-1514712#:~:text=New%20polling%20by%20Morning%20Consult%20and%20Politico%2C%20which,believe%20things%20are%20headed%20in%20the%20right%20direction.

    IT’s all on Biden, Pelosi and Schumer– it’s a D government, w/supporting players, McConnell, McCarthy, Hoyer, Scalese and the SCOTUS cabal.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  87. Garland is either “the patsy” covering for someone in the Whitehouse or he’s the architect.

    Neither is good.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/23/2022 @ 2:28 p

    The architect of what?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  88. Mystery woman in paul pelosi’s porsche when busted for dwi. Any idea who it was and what she was doing when he wrecked?

    asset (b4cd8b)

  89. The “crime” they allege in the warrant is one that is never prosecuted in cases like this.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 5:23 pm

    Actually, mishandling classified information cases (taking documents home with no intent of transferring to foreign power) are prosecuted, with an average prison sentence of 3.5 years.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  90. @91. Yeah! That Hillary Rodham Clinton spent years in the pokie wearing a bright orange pantsuit, remember? =sarc=

    DCSCA (e44384)

  91. Lost in all this is “Whom was Trump going to sell our national defense to? Has he already sold them?” And that’s Trump’s goal. To have it lost in the “unprecedented” smoke and lies.

    nk (38043f)

  92. national defense *secrets*

    nk (38043f)

  93. Plenty of time… and I have enough patience to see where all of this leads, who did what and when it was done. Motivations and even the fact that Susan Rice and Ron Klain are calling the shots in this incompetent White House will be made even clearer.

    Colonel Haiku (81c05d)

  94. Joe Manchin’s favorable ratings hit the skids: Poll

    ‘Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) is the most unpopular political figure in the United States after lending the support required for Democrats to approve a massive social spending and climate bill, according to a fresh poll. Just 11% of registered voters viewed Manchin positively in a national NBC News poll conducted Aug. 12-16. Thirty-four percent viewed the senator negatively, leaving his overall favorable ratings 23 percentage points underwater — worse off than any other major American political figure tested in the survey. The margin of error in the poll was plus or minus 3.1 points.

    The poll’s findings come on the heels of President Joe Biden signing the Inflation Reduction Act, a pared-down version of “Build Back Better.” The legislation, a reconciliation bill not subject to a Republican filibuster, languished for more than a year because of Manchin’s opposition — until earlier this month, when he reached a deal with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY). Manchin’s reversal provided the backing needed to push the bill through the Senate, to the House, and finally to Biden’s desk. However, the senator’s role in the legislation has not helped his popularity. Democrats are still angry at Manchin for holding up, or moderating, key components of Biden’s legislative agenda, while Republicans are angry at him for buckling. Manchin is up for reelection in 2024 in West Virginia, a ruby-red state.’ – https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/

    And to think just a year ago, chatter was to have him change party affiliation and jump to the GOP.

    Suckers.

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (e44384)

  95. Judge orders Trump to give details about Mar-a-Lago search warrant lawsuit

    A federal judge appointed by former President Donald Trump ordered him Tuesday to answer several key questions about his new lawsuit related to the FBI raid on his Florida home, including why her court should be the one hearing the case and to more precisely explain what he wants her to do.

    Judge Aileen Cannon also ordered Trump to tell her how his suit affects another pending case involving the same search warrant before a federal magistrate judge in the same court, and whether the Department of Justice has been served with his lawsuit yet.

    Cannon also wants to know if Trump is seeking any injunctions related to material seized in the raid until the lawsuit is resolved.
    ……….
    “To facilitate appropriate resolution, on or before August 26, 2022, Plaintiff shall file a supplement to the Motion further elaborating on the following: (1) the asserted basis for the exercise of this Court’s jurisdiction, whether legal, equitable/anomalous, or both; (2) the framework applicable to the exercise of such jurisdiction;” Cannon wrote.

    The judge also told Trump’s team to detail “the precise relief sought, including any request for injunctive relief pending resolution of the Motion; (4) the effect, if any, of the proceeding before Magistrate Judge Bruce E. Reinhart; and (5) the status of Plaintiff’s efforts to perfect service on Defendant.”
    ……….

    The result of Trump’s legal clown car of a motion.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  96. Cornered and blowing spit bubbles.

    nk (38043f)

  97. So will Paul Pelosi serve more days in jail than _________ ?

    urbanleftbehind (dbc81b)

  98. I echo Kevin’s prediction that someday many of Trump’s supporters will deny ever voting for him. It will be like an inverse of the phenomenon whereby so many people claimed they were at Woodstock.

    norcal (da5491)

  99. A first DUI with no other factors in aggravation carries no jail time in California. The court grabs them by the wallet with a fine and penalties and alcohol school to the tune of around $2,500. And on top of that there’s their lawyers’ fees.

    nk (38043f)

  100. Have they given up on “the fuzz planted it”? Or just keeping it in the wings?

    nk (38043f)

  101. I echo Kevin’s prediction that someday many of Trump’s supporters will deny ever voting for him. It will be like an inverse of the phenomenon whereby so many people claimed they were at Woodstock.

    norcal (da5491) — 8/23/2022 @ 4:03 pm

    I believe that too, but “many” is doing a lot of work. With 10s of millions of supporters, there’s room for many to come to their senses while most never do.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  102. The law doesn’t apply to the DOJ, the FBI, the IRS, established Dem and GOP politicians, nor the MSM.

    Laws don’t even apply to the way elections are run in this country. The only citizens required to obey the laws are the serfs.

    Colonel Haiku (81c05d) — 8/23/2022 @ 1:06 pm

    Is Paul Pelosi a serf?

    norcal (da5491)

  103. With 10s of millions of supporters, there’s room for many to come to their senses while most never do.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 4:13 pm

    You may be right. My dad remained a Joe McCarthy decades after McCarthy’s death. I know because he chewed me out for writing a high school term paper that was critical of McCarthy.

    norcal (da5491)

  104. Joe McCarthy supporter

    norcal (da5491)

  105. #17 and #40 – Extending the point made by JVW and Kevin a little further: “Break-In” also implies illegality, intentionally, no doubt.

    (I would say “legal search”; other, even more careful than I am, might say just “search”. And if you want to compare the loser to the head of a crime family, you might say “raid”.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  106. “others”, not “other”

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  107. Is Paul Pelosi serving any time for his infractions? He wrecked two vehicles, nearly killed someone and had something other the alcohol in his system.

    Much better deal than your average serf, I’d wager…

    Colonel Haiku (8b99b0)

  108. “Paul Pelosi already served two days in jail and received conduct credit for two other days,”

    In California, there’s an automatic reduction for misdemeanor sentences which cuts them in half. How are the two days calculated? Pelosi was arrested and taken to jail before midnight. Those few minutes are credited as a “day” in custody. Once he was released the next morning, he was credited with another day. The “fifth” day will be spent in an 8-hour work program. Meaning — he will likely show up somewhere and read a book. So, other than spending a single night in a cell Pelosi will spend no time in an actual cell for nearly killing someone while he was drunk.

    Colonel Haiku (d578a8)

  109. …while he was drunk and had something else much stronger than alcohol in his system.

    Colonel Haiku (d578a8)

  110. That’s false.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 1:49 pm

    It’s true.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/08/notes-on-the-trump-warrant.php

    NJRob (425e0a)

  111. Orrin Kerr has the Burger Court on his side, and Powerline’s partisanship prevents me from endorsing them, but I also think the warrant should have been “particular” on its face, without the officers on the scene having to extrapolate from the offenses suspected what government record is covered (Trump’s Social Security statement?) and which is not (his flight plan to and from Bedminster?). What would have been so hard about copying the statutory definitions of “Presidential record” and “classified”?

    nk (a8fbce)

  112. My apologies for this off-topic comment, mostly for Paul Montagu: This morning I dropped in to the Bellevue Barnes and Noble, to pick up a copy of Koonin’s “Unsettled”. And discovered, to my surprise, that the store is moving soon and so is selling off its current inventory. Everything in the store is at least 40 percent off, and hardbacks are 50 percent off. When I left, a little before noon, there were still many books for sale, in every department, though I only saw the one copy of Koonin’s book.

    They even gave me a 40 percent discount on today’s New York Times.

    (Details for the curious: They will be moving to a shopping center, Crossroads, a few miles east of downtown Bellevue, where they had a store, in the past. Their current site, located near the center of rapidly growing Bellevue, must be incredibly valuable. It’s a single story building and is likely to be replaced with an office or apartment building that is at least 20 stories high.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  113. Trump wants back the documents taken from his country club–even the classified ones–that were never his in the first place. For a guy who grew up in real estate, he understands little about property rights.
    There could be merit to having an expert 3rd party determine what is his personal property and what is owned by The People, but classified materials? No, hell no.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  114. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 4:13 pm

    yeah, someday

    meanwhile we already have biden supporters here who deny they ever supported him

    JF (a2fc6c)

  115. I wish I had more time to read books and loiter in bookstores, Jim.
    I’m guessing B&N couldn’t afford the rent increase. As you can probably tell from the construction cranes, downtown Bellevue is booming, triggered in part because it’s becoming Amazon’s unofficial HQ2.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  116. JF (a2fc6c) — 8/23/2022 @ 6:52 pm

    You’ve mastered the art of the whataboutism counterpunch.
    Have you considered branching out?

    norcal (da5491)

  117. norcal (da5491) — 8/23/2022 @ 6:59 pm

    calling out hypocrisy here, unfortunately, leaves time for little else

    JF (a2fc6c)

  118. Paul – B&N has been there long enough so that I assumed they owned the site, but, obviously I could be wrong. The manager told me they were building their new store at Crossroads, but it wasn’t finished, yet. (There’s an independent church right next to the current store, which also must be sitting on some extremely valuable land.)

    As you know, but others may not, Bellevue, unlike Seattle, is pretty tough on crime, including retail theft.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  119. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/23/2022 @ 6:50 pm

    So one of his lawyers finally looked up the law? I would have been before the magistrate judge with a 41(g) motion the next day. (Of course, the last time I did something like that I was on the good side of thirty, but then we did not have computers, Wi-Fi, cell phones, and electronic filing either.)

    nk (9f0a07)

  120. meanwhile we already have biden supporters here who deny they ever supported him

    Who?

    nk (9f0a07)

  121. It’s true.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/08/notes-on-the-trump-warrant.php

    NJRob (425e0a) — 8/23/2022 @ 5:09 pm

    No, Rob. It’s not. Did you even read the Orin Kerr thread I linked? Because it takes on Powerline’s assertion directly and disposes of it. For you to imply that Powerline addresses, much less refutes Kerr’s argument is, to be generous, unserious.

    NK makes a fair point, but it’s one that applies to search warrants generally, since, IIUC, the customary practice in drafting warrants Federally and locally is, as the DOJ did here, to conform to the Andresen rule that Kerr explains. So if relying on the sufficiency of Andresen is a problem, and I’m sympathetic to that possibility, it’s one for Congress and state legislatures to address globally, not for partisan bloviators to pretend they’re arguing from principle when they never saw a search warrant they didn’t like until their spray-tanned demigod was served with one.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  122. nk (9f0a07) — 8/23/2022 @ 7:16 pm

    here’s your chance, nk

    are you still owning your biden support?

    JF (a2fc6c)

  123. Now you made me curious, Jim, and it’s what I thought, except it wasn’t about raising rents, it’s about razing and redeveloping this primo location.
    B&N shares a 4.02-acre site with a church and office building, all built in 1957 and 1961. The whole parcel sold 3½ years ago to a major developer, and the price was impressive, $116 million or $663 per square foot of land area. They’re going to build three 600-foot towers, two of them residential (and 250-room hotel) and one for offices.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  124. Re #83, is Top Gov = Snoopy in the Tank?

    urbanleftbehind (0900f9)

  125. So one of his lawyers finally looked up the law?

    It’s looks like Trump’s legal counsel can hardly fill out a form, let alone cite the appropriate law.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  126. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 4:13 pm

    yeah, someday

    meanwhile we already have biden supporters here who deny they ever supported him

    JF (a2fc6c) — 8/23/2022 @ 6:52 pm

    Don’t sweat the whatabout. Who am I to begrudge a man his métier? That said, I’m no Biden supporter. I expected him to su¢k, and he’s mostly lived down to my expectations. But I was a Biden voter, and I can’t imagine ever not being proud of that vote.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  127. to hear nevertrump talk, our governance is all about democracy and votes

    when really, if it’s up to them, it’s all about the lawyers

    JF (a2fc6c)

  128. here’s your chance, nk

    are you still owning your biden support?

    How time flies. Has it been more than a month or so since I stated here that as far as I was concerned, Biden was running unopposed? If that’s “Biden support”, I totally own it. Best vote I ever cast. No regrets.

    And for the icing on the cake, I’ll continue to own the Fall of 2020 when I told Patterico, also here, to go ahead and give Willie Brown the bragging rights to having dated a Vice President, and vote for Biden even though he would also be voting for Harris.

    nk (b57ec3)

  129. So will Paul Pelosi serve more days in jail than _________ ?

    … Richard Nixon ever did; or Donald Trump ever will. 😉

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  130. when really, if it’s up to them, it’s all about the lawyers

    Trump and Jussie Smollett should get together and commiserate on how it’s impossible for persons of color to find justice in the white men’s courts.

    nk (b57ec3)

  131. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 7:42 pm

    i believe you, cuz no one would willingly admit to that if it weren’t true

    a stickler for the rule of law is probably irate about what your president is doing at the border

    funny how you seem to keep your frustrations in check

    but on a blog that’s all trump all the time, I guess any attempt to bring up the current president is a whatabout, so never mind

    JF (a2fc6c)

  132. Oh, the humiliation:

    “ A sample motion can be found on the Court’s website,” (Judge Aileen M. Cannon) instructed (Trump’s attorneys) )in her order.

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  133. So will Paul Pelosi serve more days in jail than when DC was bam-sticked from Patterico?
    No.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  134. nk (b57ec3) — 8/23/2022 @ 7:52 pm

    Very sly, nk. I like it.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  135. is Top Gov = Snoopy in the Tank?

    LOLOLOLOLOL

    “Dukie, if this thing blows up, the Feds will be the least of our problems.” – Kid Twist [Harold Gould] ‘The Sting’ 1973

    ________

    Somebody should remind “Top Gov” that Maverick lost out to Iceman, nearly washed out of Miramar by choice– lost a multi-million dollar fighter plane hotdogging– and killed his backseat man— but got the girl in the end– who in reality, is a lesbian. ‘Course Tom Terrific labeled the whole ’86 flick a fairy tale anyway– and vowed never to make a sequel. Until he did: ‘Tom Cruise, while promoting [Oliver] Stone’s Born on the Fourth of July said the film should be taken as a “fairy tale” instead of real depiction of wars and added that it would have been irresponsible to make a sequel because the film gave a misleading view of war. Cruise has reprised his role in the sequel 36 years later…’- wikitopgun.touchandgolikePOTUSJoe.com

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  136. @134. Two days out of every seven, the threads here are open for anything you want to discuss. If you can’t stop yourself from whatabouting, don’t blame the blog.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  137. I’m almost suspecting that the seeming incompetence might be deliberate. (Like the two years it takes simply to assign an appeals lawyer to a death penalty inmate in California. It’s an extra two years of reprieve.)

    If they had gone in on a proper motion the next day, they might have had a copy of the entire warrant including the affidavit as soon as the Clerk of the Court could Xerox them one, and the transcript of the warrant hearing as soon as the court reporter could print one out.

    But then, it would be known that Trump had all that was to be known in his stubby little hand and no two weeks of bluff, bluster and bull. Just the facts, ma’am!

    nk (b57ec3)

  138. For a guy who grew up in real estate, he understands little about property rights.

    Except he does: “What’s mine is mine. What’s yours is negotiable.”

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  139. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 8:11 pm

    the blog owners can do what they like

    the topics you take care to avoid are up to you

    but naturally, biden supporters need to be careful

    JF (db0c1e)

  140. Trump’s Own Chief Of Staff Debunked ‘Declassification’ Tweets In 2020 Court Filing
    ………
    Trump did indeed tweet on Oct. 6, 2020: “I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!”

    But later that month, Meadows conceded in a sworn declaration to a federal court that Trump’s tweet was not an order to declassify or release those records.

    “The president indicated to me that his statements on Twitter were no self-executing declassification orders, and do not required the declassification or release of any particular documents,” Meadows wrote in his sworn statement.

    He added that the tweets “related to authority” the president had delegated to Attorney General William Barr concerning records.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (4be23b)

  141. I see no need to be all that careful. For one thing, I’m pretty confident that with Biden as President, Airstrip One will not be part of Eurasia any time soon. I would have had no such confidence with Trump. That’s worth a lot.

    Anyhow, I am getting a better understanding of both pro-Trump and anti-Biden. Like Trump, they don’t know what a President is and what he does.

    Unlike Trump, I have read Article II and (besides knowing that it’s Two and not Eleven) I know that the President is not charged with providing me with baby formula or keeping gas prices low. He is charged with faithfully executing the laws of the United States.

    But, like, you know, whatever.

    nk (e9388c)

  142. nk (e9388c) — 8/23/2022 @ 9:15 pm

    we can be thankful whenever someone here appeals to the constitutional limits of the executive branch, if only when it’s confined to when a democrat president royally effs things up

    if trump wins, you can go back to blaming him for covid

    JF (db0c1e)

  143. @142. I’m sure if you keep implying on zero evidence that I’m a hypocrite it will persuade me to opine on the topics you want me to. How could it possibly miss?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  144. k @ 131,

    You clever man!

    but on a blog that’s all trump all the time, I guess any attempt to bring up the current president is a whatabout, so never mind

    It’s good to shoot for accuracy. It may not score you the sort of points you want, but still. The last three posts have been about 1) Constitutional concerns and the GOP, 2) the killing of the daughter of a Putin ally, and 3) this post, which is indeed about Trump – but let’s face it, he just keeps on giving us so much to work with. Prior to these posts was the Weekend Open Thread which included diverse topics like: the drought, Trump, Cheney, G20, McConnell, Salman Rushdie, Ukraine, Scotland’s period divinity officer, and DeSantis and the First Amendment.

    So, contrary to the above quote, it is not a blog that’s “all Trump all the time”.

    Dana (1225fc)

  145. Democrats win swing district ny 19 between pro choice democrat and anti choice republican candidate.

    asset (2ba961)

  146. Except he does: “What’s mine is mine. What’s yours is negotiable.”

    What you’re endorsing is the mentality of a spoiled child.
    If only his mother would’ve smacked him on the nose and told him, “Now listen, Donny, the Ken doll is not yours, it belongs to your sister. Give it back to her right now.”

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  147. The problem is that this is an extremely simple issue that should be very clear to everyone, so it is necessary to use absolute ridiculousness to muddy the waters to make it seem less clear. Trump took property that wasn’t his and wouldn’t give it back. Law enforcement confiscated the property and returned it to it’s rightful owner. Very simple.

    Even if he declassified it (he didn’t), it still wasn’t his. Even if the warrant was over broad, the property still wasn’t his. We can debate how dangerous it was for him to have or note that there are other people who have taken stuff that wasn’t theirs, but the ultimate basic issue is that he took stuff that wasn’t his and wouldn’t give it back, so law enforcement had to come take it back.

    No, that bicycle wasn’t a gift from the person who reported it stolen. No, person who reeks of weed, you aren’t just holding it for your friend. No, person holding a sharpie, no one else came in and drew that newly drawn penis on the restroom wall while you were washing your hands and not paying attention. No, you didn’t think the lunches had changed just for today and you had 1st lunch. (no, I don’t spend all my time dealing with 13 yr olds who tell us ridiculous lies.)

    What happened is very plain to see, which is why, of course, it has to be obfuscated by ridiculousness. (why are Trump and his lawyers worse at lying than my 13 year olds?)

    Nic (896fdf)

  148. Medicare grifter Republican senator rick scott head of republican senatorial finance campaign Has turned 173 million dollars in corporate campaign funds into 28 million dollars and has to cancel 20 million dollars in campaign ads thanks to the grifters and relatives siphoning off the money with sham campaign companies.

    asset (2ba961)

  149. @149. What you’re denying is the very kick-ass attitude than fuels capitalists in general and NY businessmen in particular. But if you like the ‘can’t do’ attitude of 50 years of swampy government experience, Ol’Squinty’s your guy. But keep in mind, there’s a reason the can-do ofPatton is Trump’s favorite film:

    “You’re now commanding officer! You’ve got four hours to break through to that beachhead. If you don’t make it, I’ll fire you!” – G.S. Patton [George C. Scott] ‘Patton’ 1970

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  150. Trump took property that wasn’t his and wouldn’t give it back. Law enforcement confiscated the property and returned it to it’s rightful owner. Very simple.

    Except it’s not quite that simple. The GSA “took it”– packed it– and the agencies responsible for generating the paperwork failed to keep track of their own classified documents.

    So actually, it’s this simple: the government packs up a bunch of crap in haste, including papers tagged ‘classified’ and not properly tracked by the agencies that issued them, ships them off to a guy’s house- then claims he’s keeping papers they sent there in error by their own incompetent bungling.

    “Bank Error in your favor. Collect $100.” – Monopoly Chance card, Parker Bros., 1935

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  151. @DCSCA@153 Officer, the bike was just out there on the lawn, I couldn’t not take it, it wasn’t locked up at all, obviously I had to take it.

    If it had been a mistake, Trump would’ve give the papers back the first time, when he was asked nicely, or the second time, when he was subpoena’d. He didn’t. He knowingly took and kept property that wasn’t his. Very simple.

    Nic (896fdf)

  152. @154. Like sorting through boxes of papers was his priority in life. The folks who screwed up- and it’s almost surely not just isolated to the Trump WH- are the bureaucratic goofballs who issued the documents, lost track of them and the GSA packed them up and shipped’em– lest you forget the SCOTUS paperwork the be-robed bureaucrats lost track of. It’s clearly a common problem with these faceless paper pushers. These paper jockeys are responsible. Yet look how they respond when called out for negligence and general incompetence– “Hey! It’s not our department to keep track of our department’s stuff.’ They classify too much crap; and do it as a means of control over the rest of us.

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  153. I have this picture of Trump at a GOP debate, being hauled off by the FBI during a commercial break, charged with giving codeword info to the Russians..

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  154. For God’s sake, they’ve lost atomic bombs and still not found them. But Trump has papers! What a fvcked up government this is.

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  155. Kevin, do I assume correctly you agree now that this opinion:

    The “crime” they allege in the warrant is one that is never prosecuted in cases like this. A simple lawsuit demanding the return of documents, with the US Marshals executing the resulting court order is they way this should have been handled.

    As much as I dislike Trump, this is crap. Garland is crappier than Trump. Hard to believe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 5:23 pm

    was hasty and ill-considered?
    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 2:1

    An opinion given two weeks ago, with the information at hand then? In hindsight? WOW! Let’s go hunt of old stuff and make everyone look silly with new information at hand!

    Sheesh. I’m not going to answer the original question except to say that, unlike many here, I am able to change my mind given new facts.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  156. Actually, mishandling classified information cases (taking documents home with no intent of transferring to foreign power) are prosecuted, with an average prison sentence of 3.5 years.

    No so, and your link SAYS not so. They were not prosecuted for taking stuff home, they were prosecuted for taking stuff home that got into the hands of third parties who used them for some very bad stuff.

    You conflate “no harm, no foul” with “a lot of harm”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  157. @101: The rich and poor alike are fined thousands for drunk driving. Equality!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  158. Unlike Trump, I have read Article II and (besides knowing that it’s Two and not Eleven) I know that the President is not charged with providing me with baby formula or keeping gas prices low. He is charged with faithfully executing the laws of the United States.

    But many have encumbered themselves with those duties while campaigning for the office.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  159. As you know, but others may not, Bellevue, unlike Seattle, is pretty tough on crime, including retail theft.

    Daniel’s Broiler there is better, too. Assuming it still exists.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  160. Hey DOJ and FBI and GSA— you have any idea how priceless these missing items are??? Why can’t you keep track of them??????

    ‘Of the moon rocks gifted to U.S. states alone, New York and Delaware are missing their Apollo 11 displays (Delaware’s being among the three documented as stolen), and Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio and South Carolina have been unable to locate their pieces of the Apollo 17 goodwill moon rock.’

    Delaware moon rocks missing ??? Let’s raid Biden’s house and do a search, AG Fife! Get on it, Barney!!! Maybe Hunter hid it under Squinty’s bed. Or sold it to China!

    What has happened to NASA’s missing Moon rocks?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16909592

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_and_missing_Moon_rocks#Recovered_gifted_rocks

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  161. What happened is very plain to see, which is why, of course, it has to be obfuscated by ridiculousness. (why are Trump and his lawyers worse at lying than my 13 year olds?)

    This may be why they invented courts and don’t officially try people in the press. From what I hear now, Trump would lose in Judge Judy’s court.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  162. Hey AG Fife! Flight 19 was lost in Florida back in ’45. Still missing. Government property!! Get on it: did you check Mar-A Lago for six Avengers hidden under a tarp in Melania’s closet?

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  163. Let’s go hunt of old stuff and make everyone look silly with new information at hand!

    LOLOLOLOL Wait ’til Artemis/SLS flies. Sommmmmmmmebody said it never would. The coundown is on. 😉

    DCSCA (e8e110)

  164. @DCSCA@155 You are subpoena’d to do something, you’d better make it a priority, otherwise the following consequences are ones you’ve brought on yourself.

    Nic (896fdf)

  165. Why? Because a government that loses atomic bombs and moon rocks says so? When they subpoena the SCOTUS leaker, get back to me.

    DCSCA (d22e89)

  166. @158. I wasn’t trying to make you look silly. I wanted to know if with the benefit of hindsight you thought the comment was ill-considered. Not silly. Not embarrassing. I’ve left comments in haste which I later regretted. I’d delete them if I could, and I try to do better the next time, but I’ll never be perfect, so I try not to lose sleep over them.

    If my question insulted you, I apologize.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  167. But 18 former top Trump administration officials tell CNN they never heard any such order issued during their time working for Trump, and that they believe the claim to be patently false.

    “Top?” As in “top men?” I cannot just assume that these “top” people were in the “need to know” category – as though being a “top” administration official is to be a part of that circle.

    Second. The word “heard” is asked to do a great deal of the lifting in the reader’s mind. Some cynicism is in order here.

    “Believe.” This is a safe harbor word. In fact, the entire quote sounds like a safe harbor statement. I take it as such and nothing more.

    felipe (484255)

  168. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/22/2022 @ 7:44 pm

    Trump is not an ordinary man.

    felipe (484255)

  169. Trump did indeed tweet on Oct. 6, 2020: “I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!”

    And those disloyal officers did not tell him that this time around he was running against Joe Biden and not against Hillary Clinton.

    Ah, but the strawberries, that’s, that’s where he had them, they laughed at him and made jokes, but he proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, with geometric logic, that a duplicate key to the ward room icebox did exist, and he’d had produced that key if they hadn’t pulled the country out of action. He, he knows now they were only trying to protect some fellow officer. [

    nk (e9388c)

  170. Loomer and Sabatini lost their primaries, whew.

    urbanleftbehind (d78731)

  171. Or maybe

    Trump did indeed tweet on Oct. 6, 2020: “I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!”

    But he did not say “So let be written! So let it be done!” And not having been written, it was never done.

    Or maybe those disloyal officers are hiding all the copies, felipe?

    nk (e9388c)

  172. @89

    Garland is either “the patsy” covering for someone in the Whitehouse or he’s the architect.

    Neither is good.

    whembly (b770f8) — 8/23/2022 @ 2:28 p

    The architect of what?

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/23/2022 @ 2:32 pm

    Abusing his office to get Trump at all cost.

    The reaper will eventually come…

    whembly (b770f8)

  173. The reaper will eventually come…

    Is there really law enforcement discretion when it comes to Oval Office Top Secret documents stored in a club hotel and resort even if it is members only?

    nk (e9388c)

  174. Like sorting through boxes of papers was his priority in life.

    Apparently, it was. He’s the who chose to drag his feet and obstruct.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  175. Whembly, the more we learn the more justified this appears. Initially you said it would be unjustified if the material was of a low classification level, we now have reporting that it was of the highest classification level.

    You also said they should have issued a subpoena and tried to get the material back through other means, and we know they did exactly that.

    This looks less like an abuse of office to get trump the more we learn.

    Time123 (098a9d)

  176. Is there really law enforcement discretion when it comes to Oval Office Top Secret documents stored in a club hotel and resort even if it is members only?
    nk (e9388c) — 8/24/2022 @ 6:21 am

    it all hinges on whether or not it was in the bathroom closet

    JF (f8ef7d)

  177. Message to #86 (DCSCA)

    As they say in the secuties ads — past performance is no guarantee of future results. Biden’s presidency has been horrid. But does the voting public think it’s as horrid as yet more Trump?

    As long as Donald is running and inserting himself in the conversation and scaring away the competition, Biden’s numbers will reflect Trump’s unpopularity as much as they reflect his feeble capacity.

    Sorry if that bothers you.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  178. JF, and this is no snark, Hillary was not selling the privilege of ingress and egress to her home, including renting a suite for up to two weeks at time, for a $200,000 initiation fee and $14,000 annual dues.

    If, and it’s a big if, Mar-a-Lago is not Casablanca with rainfall, with every spy agency in the world having an agent as a member of the club, it’s because the spy agencies are afraid that it’s a U.S. counter-intelligence trap.

    Trump should have entirely disassociated himself from it before the transition in 2016 and never gone back, and his family too.

    nk (e9388c)

  179. God, how did we let a nightmare like Trump happen?

    nk (e9388c)

  180. I think Trump, and it could be any person who assisted him, didn’t study what the Presidential Records Act said, or oay more than minimal attention to it, if that, and the people in the Biden Administration are trying to twist the law and make it say things it doesn’t say.

    There was an Op-ed article yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, which, although it makes a few assertions that don’t follow or are strained to favor Trump, and repeats itself, nevertheless makes an important point that has been overlooked:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trump-warrant-had-no-legal-basis-mar-a-lago-affidavit-presidential-records-act-archivist-custody-classified-fbi-garland-11661170684

    A former president is supposed to retain access to his records The National Archives may have custody, but he retains access – what’s more, very few other people have access, including the new administration, except in cases of necessity. That’s the arrangement with Obama, and the records were een moved to Illinois.

    But for now, the FBI has them in Miami, and he doesn’t know what’s there. The National Archives, in fact, if I understand things correctly, turned over to the FBI everything it got previously from Trump, in January and in June, for purposes of an investigation..

    Trump was late in requesting a special master but he could, somewhere, ask that he, or any of the seven people he authorized to look at the papers, go through it.

    Trump wants a more informative list of what was taken, plus the return of anything not covered by the search warrant, plus (we mostly hear only this) anything that might be covered by attorney-client privilege and executive privilege.

    With executive privilege we have another issue, because Biden waived this in this context (or maybe in the context of any time anyone in the Executive branch or Congress wants to see documents) and they are disputing over whether the new president can waive the previous president’s assertion of executive privilege.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  181. John Bolton said we never previously had a president who lived in a hotel.

    Spy agencies wouldn’t have access – this was not an ordinary hotel — it cost too much to be allowed there and every member is naturally, pre-approved.

    The Secret Service probably paid some attention too.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  182. nk (e9388c) — 8/24/2022 @ 7:14 am

    how did we let a nightmare like Trump happen?

    The poor quality of the discussion on talk radio. (enforced with call screening)

    And the poor quality of the other candidates. Including inability to argue.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  183. the President is not charged with providing me with baby formula or keeping gas prices low. He is charged with faithfully executing the laws of the United States.

    Some of which regulate Interstate commerce, and food and drug labeling and safety has been delegated to the executive branch, which succeeded, eventually, after several decades, in regulating infant formulas halfway out of existence.

    Gas prices would be more in the province of Congress, although things that presidents do may affect it.

    People just don’t know what causes what – they blame the president for inflation and recessions and presidents take credit for good news without ever bothering to explain how.

    And then there was Clinton who didn’t want Republicans to know the secret, and so he arranged for a law to be passed in 1993 by one vote in both Houses of Congress with no Republican votes at all, while keeping to himself and what really worked for economic growth and lower deficits and underpredicting growth and overpredicting deficits.)

    By the way, Clinton;s strategy backfired in 1994 – he wanted to convince people that Republicans were all partisan hacks because they all voted the same way, but the public correctly drew the conclusion that the \Democratic Party was partisan, and they didn’t want that.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  184. Tweets don;t declassify (beyond what discussing something in public does by itself) but anyway those Trump tweets that are cited were not a general declassificstion of anything that left secure storage. And while the 2016 investigations files were declassified (with the exception of a few redactions) Mark Meadows did not turn them over to a conservative writer, as he had intended, because the Privacy Act was brought up.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  185. @180. You seem to be the fella bothered. Trump’s been out of office 18 months yet lives rent free in your mind and rules your discourse. Wait ’til Joe cancels student debt today and sucker punches middle class jerks who’ve been paying theirs of for years– and he blames both Trump and Putin for forcing him to do it!

    DCSCA (9b19e0)

  186. Nic (896fdf) — 8/23/2022 @ 11:04 pm

    he took stuff that wasn’t his and wouldn’t give it back, so law enforcement had to come take it back.

    Trump personally went through the boxes in late 2021 — and it seems undisputed, not everything that the National Archives wanted was given to it in January, 2022.

    Trump still had the concept that the items were in the custody of the National Archives only until a Trump library and museum was established to hold them.

    I don’t think Trump realized that, after a while, when the National Archives saw that some of the material they got from Trump was highly classified, and alerted DoJ, the National Archives wasn’t holding what he sent, but the FBI was.

    Trump evidently never once asked for someone he appointed to look at them.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  187. God, how did we let a nightmare like Trump happen?

    Reaganomics. Reaganoptics. Reaganaurics.

    He is the Frankenstein wholly born and nurtured of Ronnie’s go-go 1980s, when gawdy excess and junk bond futures ruled the land. He is the GOP’s ‘picture of Dorian Gray’— He is “you.” Deal with it.

    DCSCA (9b19e0)

  188. I think Trump, and it could be any person who assisted him, didn’t study what the Presidential Records Act said…

    Pure speculation. Trump had legal counsel around him, advising him on all matters. If he still chose ignorance–an implausible choice–the National Archives had to have pointed him to the relevant law. I really don’t know why you keep guessing what’s in that guy’s head. As they say, watch what they do.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  189. Biden to Announce Student Loan Forgiveness Plan

    President Biden is expected to announce Wednesday that he will cancel some federal student loan debt for tens of millions of Americans through a long-awaited executive action, which would provide unprecedented relief for borrowers but is certain to draw political and legal challenges.

    Mr. Biden is planning to forgive $10,000 in federal student loan debt for borrowers making under $125,000 a year or couples making less than $250,000 a year, according to people familiar with the matter. In addition, those who receive federal Pell Grants and make less than $125,000 a year would be eligible for forgiveness of up to $20,000, some of the people said.

    The action would be the culmination of more than a year of debate within the Biden administration on debt forgiveness. Mr. Biden is also planning to announce an extension of the pandemic pause on student loan payments through the end of this year, the people said. Loan payments were set to resume for millions of borrowers after Aug. 31.

    A plan to forgive around $10,000 of student debt for borrowers who make under $125,000 a year or around double that for married couples would include the vast majority of the 40 million people with student debt. The action could render up to 15 million borrowers whose balances are under $10,000 entirely free of student debt.

    Mr. Biden has repeatedly delayed making a decision. In May, he said he would make an announcement within a “couple of weeks,” which didn’t come to fruition.

    The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment on the details of the coming announcement. The Washington Post earlier reported the additional loan forgiveness for Pell Grant recipients.

    The White House has kept the details of the decision closely guarded. Only a small group of Mr. Biden’s top aides have been informed of his plans, people familiar with the matter said.

    Mr. Biden spoke by phone on Tuesday night with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) to discuss the issue, and he separately held a joint call with Sens. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Raphael Warnock of Georgia, according to people with knowledge of the conversations. All three Democrats have been encouraging Mr. Biden to forgive student debt.

    Mr. Biden is scheduled to return to the White House on Wednesday from Delaware, where he is on vacation with his family. The president has said he would announce a decision on student loans by Aug. 31.

    If the administration does act to cancel around $10,000 in debt, it will fall far short of what borrower advocates and progressive Democrats have demanded: Full student debt cancellation or at least canceling $50,000 per borrower. But it would represent a sea change in the federal government’s approach to higher education finance, and is a tacit admission that the decades-old programs designed to make college affordable haven’t lived up to their promise.

    Polling has shown that Americans are divided on the issue of debt forgiveness, with support fluctuating depending on the details of the proposal. An NPR/Ipsos poll released in June found 55% support for the idea of forgiving up to $10,000 in student loan debt.

    The decision, just over two months ahead of the midterm elections, would likely spark legal and political backlash from opponents of mass debt forgiveness, including Republicans who believe that voters will be turned off by a policy that puts taxpayers on the hook for individuals’ loans.

    Republicans oppose broad student debt cancellation. In May, GOP senators led by Mitt Romney of Utah introduced a bill to limit presidential authority to cancel debt, though it hasn’t advanced in the Democratic-controlled Senate.

    Mr. Biden’s moves to cancel debt “would not only be unfair to those who already repaid their loans or decided to pursue alternative education paths, but it would be wildly inflationary at a time of already historic inflation,” Mr. Romney said.

    Economists say that a tailored debt cancellation plan is unlikely to exacerbate short-term inflationary pressures, but could add to them in the long term, especially if universities continue to raise tuition because students may expect their loans to eventually be canceled.

    Even some economists usually aligned with the White House, including former Clinton administration Treasury Secretary Larry Summers and former Obama administration economist Jason Furman, have criticized the cost of a potential student debt cancellation and warn that it could force future spending cuts or tax increases.

    A budgeting model from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania estimated this week that forgiving $10,000 in federal student loan debt with income caps would cost around $300 billion over a 10-year period.’ source, – wsj.com

    All you never-Trumpers: you bought this boob; you own him.

    DCSCA (9b19e0)

  190. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2022/08/24/in-the-inflation-expansion-act-biden-will-forgive-300-billion-in-student-loan-debt-n1623754

    Thanks Biden voters for doing all that you could to bankrupt the nation. Hope those 30 pieces of silver were worth it.

    NJRob (b8b72c)

  191. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4OJGdtRx10

    Sing it, Joe!

    “The last man nearly ruined this place;
    he didn’t know what to do with it;
    if you think this country’s bad off now;
    just wait ’til I get through with it!”

    Suckers.

    DCSCA (9b19e0)

  192. @178

    Whembly, the more we learn the more justified this appears. Initially you said it would be unjustified if the material was of a low classification level, we now have reporting that it was of the highest classification level.

    You also said they should have issued a subpoena and tried to get the material back through other means, and we know they did exactly that.

    This looks less like an abuse of office to get trump the more we learn.

    Time123 (098a9d) — 8/24/2022 @ 6:37 am

    I vehemently disagree.

    I thought we were past the point of believing whatever leaks the media is getting.

    We don’t know anything, and assuming/believing anything the media is pushing is always going to be playing with fire.

    whembly (b770f8)

  193. Terrible policy from the Biden WH that does nothing to fix the underlying problem. It may well make college more expensive in the long run. It’s also of questionable legality.

    Terrible policy from a candidate I expected to do a terrible job.

    Time123 (00da08)

  194. @196. “I trust his judgment.” – Nancy Pelosi

    DCSCA (9b19e0)

  195. Whembly, I agree that what we know now might change. But what is known now supports what I said.

    The letter from the National archive asserted both that other steps had been taken to get documents, both are negotiation and a subpoena, and that Trump was in possession of classified material.

    Time123 (00da08)

  196. Terrible policy …

    I don’t mind it. In fact I like it. Money is money. Fungible. Think of it as sideways pork, a handout, to academia. You know, like the stimuli to all and sundry in the last couple of years? That some places don’t even know how to spend and are giving it out in lotteries?

    The best part is taking the monkey off the students’ backs, and it’s a very good part. And some did get some benefit from it. And academia had to work some for it.

    And if the taxpayers did not get their money’s worth …? Duh! When do they ever?

    nk (4207c6)

  197. It may play in “Lightfootland”, but there will be major pushback from some unexpected corners.

    Colonel Haiku (a18d1e)

  198. About that Constitution ….

    Article I, Section 9: No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law

    Biden doesn’t seem to care.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  199. If my question insulted you, I apologize.

    lurker, it’s all good. I was more surprised than insulted and was mostly surprised that the poster wasn’t in all caps.

    TO answer your question, though: I stand by my statement that the mere “mishandling” of documents is usually not <i<prosecuted (although other consequences ensue, like getting fired). Nearly every prosecution that does happen is due to actual harm occurring due to said mishandling, such as it getting out to third parties. I have not yet seen a link that rebuts that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  200. I miss the preview.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  201. LOLOLOLOL Wait ’til Artemis/SLS flies. Sommmmmmmmebody said it never would. The coundown is on.

    Most of us will be dead by then.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  202. DCSCA,

    Y’know, if you were really concerned about getting rid of Biden (your obsession dwarfs anything I’ve got regarding Trump), you’d work on getting support for a guy who does NOT repel the irrelevent portion of the Republican party and does not incentivize all Democrats to say no f’n way when the guy appears.

    Just saying. Polarization is a strategy for losing losers who lose.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  203. But he did not say “So let be written! So let it be done!” And not having been written, it was never done.

    Not necessary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeo3ISj8DaQ

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  204. how did we let a nightmare like Trump happen?

    Because the people in charge ignored the rabble and forgot that, in a democratic system, the rabble will rip you a new assh0le if you ignore them too long.

    And voila! Assh0le.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  205. Much as I’d personally like to have Miss Montagu’s college debt paid down or paid off by Biden, it’s poor federal policy. I agree with Tom Nichols.

    Trump voters and Republicans *are* driven by grievances, many of them imaginary or stoked by demagogues. But Mark’s not wrong here, either.
    “Fix this life choice I made by taking out these loans” is class-based grievance politics and playing into it is a bad idea for Dems.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  206. Another giveaway to the “academic” left. We know how this scam plays out.

    Instead of ending the free money spigot and forcing universities to have majors that actually matter and professors that teach, we just allow them to forever raise prices and indoctrinate our young.

    At least we see those who pretended to be fiscal conservatives were really just wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    Btw,

    Loved how car companies raised the prices on electric vehicles by 6k the second the government offered a 7k “discount.”

    NJRob (b8b72c)

  207. Loved how car companies raised the prices on electric vehicles by 6k the second the government offered a 7k “discount.”

    Almost no electric car sold today qualifies for those rebates.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  208. Almost no electric car sold today qualifies for those rebates.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/24/2022 @ 10:20 am

    Quite a few do.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  209. Biden got two out of three college graduates versus Trump. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/

    nk (4207c6)

  210. @211: Sure, some are grandfathered in, but that will end soon, and those that are still eligible are low in number and disappearing fast — assuming that dealer markups aren’t eating into that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  211. Here’s an idea:

    If Merrick Garland needs to go, Liz Cheney for Attorney General

    Now that Rep. Liz Cheney has lost her primary to a Trumpist Republican in Wyoming, it’s time for President Biden to consider appointing her to his cabinet. Political tensions have risen to new levels since the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Aug. 8 search of Mar-a-Lago. Bringing a Republican into the administration would cool partisan temperatures and unite the country in support of the rule of law.

    Maybe it wouldn’t unite everyone, but it sure would strike terror into the Trumpist hearts.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  212. Sh#+, the tradesmen might have legit jobs and side jobs up the wazoo. Still a bad policy overall because it will introduce inflationary pressures on several pockets of the economy.

    urbanleftbehind (d78731)

  213. @214 If Garlands is so far politicized and needs to go…

    I don’t think AG Cheney would solve anything.

    whembly (b770f8)

  214. Actually, mishandling classified information cases (taking documents home with no intent of transferring to foreign power) are prosecuted, with an average prison sentence of 3.5 years.

    No so, and your link SAYS not so. They were not prosecuted for taking stuff home, they were prosecuted for taking stuff home that got into the hands of third parties who used them for some very bad stuff.

    You conflate “no harm, no foul” with “a lot of harm”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/23/2022 @ 11:58 pm

    Actually, they were charged with removing and retaining classified information. 18 USC 793(e) states:

    (e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; ……

    All of the following were indicted under 18 USC 793(e) for “willful retention of national defense information”:

    Nghia Pho

    Hal Martin

    To be continued……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  215. Rip, did you read the full article? Tne information “leaked” and was used to the detriment of the United States. That they were prosecuted under a law does not mean that the law they are charged with was the reason they were charged.

    I claimed that there was a “no harm, no foul” treatment and you attempt to refute that with something that had GREAT HARM.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  216. Post 217 continued….These individuals were indicted, convicted, or pled guilty to 18 USC 793(e) and removing and retaining national defense (and/or classified information), which does not require transfers to third parties:

    Terry Albury
    David Hale
    Weldon Marshall

    All of the above individuals pled guilty (or were convicted) under 18 USC 793(e). The linked indictments or plea deals do not mention anything about transferring classified information to third parties.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  217. Rip, did you read the full article? Tne information “leaked” and was used to the detriment of the United States. That they were prosecuted under a law does not mean that the law they are charged with was the reason they were charged.

    I claimed that there was a “no harm, no foul” treatment and you attempt to refute that with something that had GREAT HARM.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/24/2022 @ 11:58 am

    18 USC 793 (e) doesn’t require that harm occur. The mere possession is a crime.

    Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document……relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation…..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  218. The government never formally claimed that either (Nghia Pho or Hal Martin) caused hostile powers to obtain these files, much less voluntarily gave them to foreign actors. Yet it used 793e to hold them accountable for the damage their negligence caused.

    Nghia Pho and Hal Martin didn’t deliberately “leak” the NSA hacking tools to Shadow Brokers, their own personal computers were hacked through Kaspersky Anti-Virus software.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  219. @204. Most of us will be dead by then.

    Most of us will: but sorry you won’t be around on Monday, August 29, 2022– when the first launch window opens. At 8.33 AM local Eastern time, Kev.

    DCSCA (24b2ce)

  220. “Because the people in charge ignored the rabble and forgot that, in a democratic system, the rabble will rip you a new assh0le if you ignore them too long.”

    Ring wing media also created unreasonable expectations as to what government can accomplish…especially when you need 60 votes to get most lasting legislation done. When you eat, drink and sh*t hyperbole and overreaction, is it surprising when the GOP is compelled to endorse someone that provides the most theater? Trump is the GOP’s middle finger to the Left and frankly that means more than practically anything else in today’s currency. Sure, he scratches the populist itch to blame the ugly side of globalization and the decline in culture on Chinese, Mexicans, and Muslims, but when politics becomes solely a game of rooting for your side, then you get the spiral into the gutter that we now have. There were so many exit ramps on this entire Trump journey, yet we still are on a path to nominate him again and continue making extraordinary rationalizations (like the GSA accidentally packing the classified information). We’re sure stuck in some serious tedium….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  221. yet we still are on a path to nominate him again and continue making extraordinary rationalizations (like the GSA accidentally packing the classified information).

    You’ve apparently haven’t been moved much, corporate or the GSA style, have you. We’ve had packers literally box up somebody’s lunch and a box of trash, inadvertently– and ship’em back stateside from London. They just ‘hoover’ through, wrap and pack, PDQ.

    DCSCA (24b2ce)

  222. Trumpworld was slightly misleading about Biden waiving executive privilege. He authorized the National Archives and Records Administration to determine where it applied. It diesn;tmean Biden was making any decisions about this case. It doesn’t (because law enforcement is one exception.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/23/us/politics/national-archives-letter-trump-fbi.html

    He alsodid this:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/us/politics/biden-trump-white-house-visitor-logs.html

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  223. TO answer your question, though: I stand by my statement that the mere “mishandling” of documents is usually not <i<prosecuted (although other consequences ensue, like getting fired). Nearly every prosecution that does happen is due to actual harm occurring due to said mishandling, such as it getting out to third parties. I have not yet seen a link that rebuts that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/24/2022 @ 9:50 am

    But that’s the answer to a different question. The issue wasn’t whether, consistent with historical DOJ practice, there was sufficient evidence to prosecute Trump for mishandling classified material. At least for the sake of argument, I accept that if there is, we haven’t seen it yet. What the issue was is whether, consistent with historical DOJ practice and the prudential concerns over criminalizing the behavior of an ex-President, there was sufficient evidence to justify a search warrant. And while I continue to reserve final judgment until we see the affidavit, the mounting evidence points strongly to “yes.”

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  224. What did Maria Butina know and when did she know it?

    nk (4207c6)

  225. I thought Trump’s alter ego was off Twitter when Trump was offed from Twitter, but noooo

    Will they gives backs secret scrolls they plantsed? But if they plants them why would we neeeeds them eh? QUIET! They plants them & makes us WANTS them! Our own secret scrolls! Scrolls we mades not secret with wave of the Precious! Yes thats it! And the Turney Gaffer privlidges!

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  226. I miss the preview.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/24/2022 @ 9:51 am

    Me too.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  227. Lurker at 226 has nailed it.

    Time123 (8d3c2b)

  228. What Obama did:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/23/us/politics/trump-presidential-records.html

    For the three years that former President Barack Obama wrote his 768-page memoir after leaving the White House, the millions of pages of his official presidential records were locked away in warehouses in Washington and Chicago.

    Each time Mr. Obama wanted to review something, his aides submitted precise requests to the National Archives and Records Administration. Sometimes, documents would be encrypted and loaded onto a laptop that would be brought to Mr. Obama at his office in Washington. Other times, a paper document would be placed in a locked bag for his perusal, and later returned the same way.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  229. There was a Chinese spy who attempted to get accesss to Mar-aLago:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/25/chinese-trespasser-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-resort-sentenced.html

    KEY POINTS
    A Chinese businesswoman convicted of trespassing at President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort while carrying a bag full of electronics is sentenced to eight months in jail.

    Yujing Zhang, a 33-year-old Shanghai business consultant, was arrested on March 30 and charged with unlawfully entering Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club and lying to federal agents.

    She was convicted on both counts by a 12-member jury in Florida federal court in September, following a brief but unusual trial.

    She is presumed to have wanted to plant bugs.

    She didn’t pay to get in,

    Ths was in 2019.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  230. She was found to be carrying four mobile phones, a laptop computer, an external hard drive, and a thumb drive that “contained malicious software,” the complaint said. More electronics were found in her hotel room, along with about $8,000 in cash, according to the complaint.

    Zhang’s bundle of tech products bred speculation that the Chinese national may be a foreign spy. She was never charged with espionage.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  231. Terry J. Albury

    Terry Albury is an American former FBI agent convicted of leaking documents to news site The Intercept detailing secret guidelines for the FBI’s use of informants and the surveillance of journalists and religious and ethnic minority and immigrant communities. The documents formed the basis for a series of articles in The Intercept called “The FBI’s Secret Rules”.[1]

    David Hale

    The document you link makes it clear (part C) that Hale made every attempt to gather classified information tht would be of interest to an [unnamed] reporter and to pass the information to him. E.g.

    11. In April 2013, HALE used his unclassified NSA work computer to search the
    internet for information on a reporter (the Reporter). Among the results of his search was
    information pertaining to a scheduled appearance of the Reporter on or about April 29, 2013 at a
    Washington, D.C. restaurant/bookstore (Bookstore).

    12. On or about April 29,2013, HALE attended a book tour event at the Bookstore,
    where he met with the Reporter. The next day, on or about April 30, 2013, HALE used his TOP
    SECRET NSA computer to search for classified information concerning individuals and issues
    about which the Reporter wrote.

    13. In May 2013, HALE sent a text to a close friend and confidant (Confidant) stating
    “[the Reporter] wants me to tell my story about working with drones at the opening screening of
    his documentary about the war and the use of drones.”

    14. On or about June 8, 2013, HALE sat next to the Reporter at a public event at the
    Bookstore to promote the Reporter’s book (Book 1). After the event, HALE texted a friend that
    he was then with the Reporter and headed to a restaurant.

    15. On or about June 9, 2013, the Reporter sent HALE an email with a link to an
    article about Edward Snowden in an online publication. That same day. Hale texted a friend that
    the previous night he had been hanging out with journalists who were focused on his story. Hale
    wrote that the evening’s events might provide him with “life long connections with people who
    publish work like this.”

    Weldon Marshall

    Weldon Marshall, 43, of Sherman, Texas, was sentenced today to 41 months in prison, to be followed by one year of supervised release, for unlawfully retaining national defense information. Marshall pleaded guilty on March 5. Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers and U.S. Attorney Ryan K. Patrick of the Southern District of Texas made the announcement, after sentencing by U.S. District Judge George Hanks. In handing down the sentence, the court noted how Marshall violated an important trust the military had placed in him. From the early 2000s, Marshall unlawfully retained classified items he obtained while serving in the U.S. Navy and while working for a military contractor. Marshall served in the U.S. Navy from approximately January 1999 to January 2004, during which time he had access to highly sensitive classified material, including documents describing U.S. nuclear command, control and communications. Those classified documents, including other highly sensitive documents classified at the Secret level, were downloaded onto a compact disc labeled “My Secret TACAMO Stuff.” He later unlawfully stored the compact disc in a house he owned in Liverpool, Texas. After he left the Navy, until his arrest in January 2017, Marshall worked for various companies that had contracts with the U.S. Department of Defense. While employed with these companies, Marshall provided information technology services on military bases in Afghanistan where he also had access to classified material. During his employment overseas, and particularly while he was located in Afghanistan, Marshall shipped hard drives to his Liverpool home. The hard drives contained documents and writings classified at the Secret level about flight and ground operations in Afghanistan. Marshall has held a Top Secret security clearance since approximately 2003 and a Secret security clearance since approximately 2002.

    Marshall did it A LOT and that he was not shown to have transmitted it does not mean he did not. What they could prove was enough. This is the closest case to Trump you have so far, but this was so egregious, taking place over a decade and in several positions, that it required prosecution. It was probably espionage.

    If I’d done any of these things, I’d be LUCKY to plead guilty to “mishandling”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  232. And while I continue to reserve final judgment until we see the affidavit, the mounting evidence points strongly to “yes.”

    The information available at the time made it seem like a shocking overreach by a political opponent with a grudge.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  233. The point I was making was that the statute they were citing is not normally used in and of itself. Rip keeps trying to prove otherwise, but every case he cites argues for my position. Unless Trump disclosed this material to others, or threatened people with revealing it, or otherwise harmed or threatened harm to the government or its officers, he probably would not be charged. Except there’s a lot of it. Maybe Trump crossed a line.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  234. Nghia Pho and Hal Martin didn’t deliberately “leak” the NSA hacking tools to Shadow Brokers, their own personal computers were hacked through Kaspersky Anti-Virus software.

    But it was the consequence of their act, not the act itself, that got them in trouble. Kind of like felony murder when your partner in crime trips and falls into a wood-chipper.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  235. Now, this today:

    Former Nixon White House counsel John Dean says the letter released by the National Archives showing it told former President Donald Trump’s legal team in May informing them that it was sharing hundreds of pages of classified material it had retrieved in January with the FBI, so that an assessment could be done on potential damage from how the classified documents had been handled, is very damning.

    I admit I haven’t watched the video, but the idea that they are “assessing damage” should be very worrisome to the Trump team. As I have said repeatedly, where there is no damage, there is generally no prosecution. But the flip side is also true. If they find that the information was compromised, even accidentally, Trump should go to jail.

    I would also like to see the FBI’s assessment of the damage done by Clinton’s server, but I won’t hold my breath.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  236. Kevin, read this report. Then read the letter from the National Archives. If the reports are accurate, Trump refused to turn over government documents, many classified, after the NARA letter, prompting the subpoena, then continued holding out after the subpoena, leading to the search warrant. Whether prosecution is warranted remains to be seen, but if the reporting is accurate, the necessity and propriety of the warrant is hard to dispute.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  237. As I have said repeatedly, where there is no damage, there is generally no prosecution.

    And as I have pointed out, here and here, none of these individuals were charged with leaking classified information to third parties, only for willful retention of classified information in violation of 18 U.S. Code § 793.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  238. The Bard of Avon notes:

    “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers” — ”Dick the Butcher” in Shakespeare’s Henry VI, Part 2, act 4, scene 2, line 73

    DCSCA (e3e791)

  239. Raphael Lemkin , who coined the word genocide, didn’t think very much of lawyers, (and he was one) Even those who wanted to engage in a cause

    I’ll get the quote from his last book later Maybe Sunday.

    The book is Totally Unofficial: The Autobiography of Raphael Lemkin and Donna-Lee Frieze

    This account of his life, mainly from 1939 on, was published only in 2013.

    He had prepared a mostly completed manuscript the last two years before his death in 1959.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  240. And as I have pointed out, here and here, none of these individuals were charged with leaking classified information to third parties, only for willful retention of classified information in violation of 18 U.S. Code § 793.

    And as I have repeatedly pointed out with trivial use of Google, your links are full of sh1t.

    In all but one case you linked to, 3rd parties accessed the information and harm was done. In only one case was that not proven but the sheer quantity and duration of the activity suggests that the intent was to do so (much like having 100 pounds of heroin).

    Some of YOUR links also argue MY case, not yours.

    See, for example, here, in response to your @219. The two individuals in @217 allowed their mishandled information to get into the hands of third parties, who published them.

    Further, that one is prosecuted under a statute does not mean

    1. That this is the extent of the crime, or
    2. That the reason they were prosecuted was simply because they violated said crime.

    In this case is usually is not, and when something usually is not prosecuted, “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring such charges against an ex-President UNLESS serious harm resulted from his actions or it involved criminal activity.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  241. I repeat, since it does not yet seem to have passed through your NIH filter:

    Further, that one is prosecuted under a statute does not mean

    1. That this is the extent of the crime, or
    2. That the reason they were prosecuted was simply because they violated said crime.

    In this case [the statute] is usually not prosecuted, and when something usually is not prosecuted, “no reasonable prosecutor” would bring such charges against an ex-President UNLESS serious harm resulted from his actions or it involved criminal activity.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)


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