Patterico's Pontifications

8/17/2022

In Which I Wholeheartedly Agree With A Trump Spokesman

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:44 pm



[guest post by Dana]

You said it out loud. No backsies:

Ms. Cheney had hoped the Jan. 6 riot would be a turning point for Republicans. It did prove to be a dividing line. But it was those who crossed Mr. Trump who have suffered the electoral consequences.

“She may have been fighting for principles,” said Taylor Budowich, a spokesman and adviser to Mr. Trump. “But they are not the principles of the Republican Party.”

Let’s take a look-see at what Liz Cheney says about those “principles”:

There is much at stake now, including the ridiculous weakness of our political rivals, the irrational policies at the border, and runaway spending that threatens a return to the catastrophic inflation of the 1970s. Reagan formed a broad coalition from across the political spectrum to return America to sanity, and we need to do the same now. We know how. But this will not happen if Republicans choose to abandon the rule of law and join Trump’s crusade to undermine the foundation of our democracy and reverse the legal outcome of the last election.

History is watching. Our children are watching. We must be brave enough to defend the basic principles that underpin and protect our freedom and our democratic process. I am committed to doing that, no matter what the short-term political consequences might be.

[…]

America cannot remain free if we abandon the truth. The lie that the 2020 presidential election was stolen is insidious.

–Dana

137 Responses to “In Which I Wholeheartedly Agree With A Trump Spokesman”

  1. Trump owns the GOP.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Apparently, he owns a lot of heads, as well.

    Colonel Haiku (7f0c92)

  3. Er, what are the principles of the Republican party? Since, like, they have apparently decided that insurrection is OK. Does anyone know? Do they have a current national party platform even?

    Nic (896fdf)

  4. How ******* dare anyone out there criticize Trump after all he has been through.!

    He lost the election, he went through two divorces. He has five ******* kids.

    Stormy Daniels turned out to be a snitch, a blabbermouth, and now he’s going through three grand jury investigations. All you people care about is readers and making money off of him.

    HE’S A HUMAN! (ah! ooh!) What you don’t realize is that Trump is making you all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about him.

    All you people want is MORE! MORE-MORE, MORE: MORE!.

    LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are lucky he even went into politics for you BASTARDS!
    LEAVE TRUMO ALONE!…Please.

    Liz Cheney talked about principles, and said if Trump was principled January 6 would not have happened.

    Speaking of principles, when is it principled to publicly bash someone who is going through a hard time.

    Leave Trump Alone Please!
    Leave Donald Trump alone! Right now! I mean it!

    Anyone that has a problem with him you deal with me, because he is not well right now.

    LEAVE HIM ALONE!

    nk (f27c30)

  5. Er, what are the principles of the Republican party?

    The exact same as the principles of the Democratic Party. For the seat-fillers to keep getting reelected and for the party leaders to keep their leadership positions.

    nk (f27c30)

  6. #3,

    Trump isn’t sure yet because he doesn’t really have any of his own to bring to the table. But I’m sure he’ll get the best and the brightest to revise them just soon as he finds a lawyer he can sucker into defending him.

    Dana (1225fc)

  7. Nic@3

    what nk said

    plus, I don’t think you know what Democrat party principles are either, but that hasn’t stopped you from voting for them

    JF (7b1fe4)

  8. i look forward to an incumbent who can’t keep her seat in wyoming teaching us how to form a broad coalition like Reagan

    JF (7b1fe4)

  9. Heh. Eric Trump concurs: It’s not the Republican Party anymore, it’s the ‘Trump Party’.

    Dana (1225fc)

  10. #8,

    I do too!

    Dana (1225fc)

  11. @nk and @jf But what does that mean in the R party today? What are the R principles? I can at least read the Dem platform for their ostensible principles.

    Nic (896fdf)

  12. Nic (896fdf) — 8/17/2022 @ 7:41 pm

    https://gop.com/about-our-party/

    JF (7b1fe4)

  13. But what does that mean in the R party today? What are the R principles?

    Well, if you’re gonna get technical ostensible ….

    Pro-life, pro-RKBA, pro-law and order, pro-national defense, pro-profit motive, pro-truth in climate change, pro-states’ rights, and for really, really ostensible pro-fiscal conservatism which nobody believes, are some that I can think of right now.

    nk (f27c30)

  14. JF @12. I had never seen that before. Who would not realize a handful of nebulous nothing when handed that? Is that Trump’s secret? He hands out something people can grasp?

    nk (f27c30)

  15. Don’t forget pro-election denial.

    Rip Murdock (f970de)

  16. The current Republican Party.

    Rip Murdock (f970de)

  17. @JF which of those vague concepts does Liz Cheney stand against?

    @nk Liz wasn’t against any of those though, AFAICT, while many members in good standing seem to be against several of them. I find it irritating that I can go here and see what is going on with the Dems and can’t do that for the Rs.

    (also, I find it ironic that the most fiscally responsible President of my lifetime may have been Bill bloody Clinton.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  18. Trump owns the GOP.

    Satan owns the Democrats.

    What to do? Can Liz Cheney and a few others form a new party that stands for something? Or are we doomed to rummage around in the wreckage that Trump left us?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  19. Do they have a current national party platform even?

    Near as I can tell, it’s “What Trump wants, when he wants it.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  20. The current Republican Party.

    That would be a step up.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  21. @17 Ah yes. Back when congress did things other than spend money and come up with clever names for bills.

    That fiscal responsibility was forced on BjC.

    frosty (fc3700)

  22. (also, I find it ironic that the most fiscally responsible President of my lifetime may have been Bill bloody Clinton.)

    It helped that he had a Congress that felt the same way.

    Then the Clinton-Gingrich show was replaced by the Bush-Hastert show. The first thing they did was restart farm subsidies which Clinton and Gingrich had actually ended.

    (To be fair, Clinton benefited from some irrational exuberance in the economy which goosed revenue, and Bush got the dot-com crash, the election interregnum and 9-11).

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  23. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/17/2022 @ 8:19 pm

    Which others? If it’s the likes of Kinzinger they’ll have a tough row to hoe.

    My bet is she becomes a lobbyist.

    frosty (fc3700)

  24. I also think Clinton was a good President.

    But I’m older than that. I remember that Carter carried Texas and Ford carried California. And then Reagan carried both and 42 more to Carter’s 6 and DC. Things change, populations change, candidates change.

    nk (f27c30)

  25. which of those vague concepts does Liz Cheney stand against?
    Nic (896fdf) — 8/17/2022 @ 8:15 pm

    all of them, since they’re not Democrat vague concepts and that’s the party she’s been helping lately

    and Nic, why not save everyone’s time and drop the charade

    JF (db0c1e)

  26. My bet is she becomes a lobbyist.

    My bet is she becomes increasingly obtuse and wholly irrelevant.

    Be gone, Neocon.

    DCSCA (2a2455)

  27. @JF@25 Do you have any non-tribalist examples of ways in which Liz acted against the vague concepts you linked?

    Nic (896fdf)

  28. Nic (896fdf) — 8/17/2022 @ 9:36 pm

    pose tribalist questions, get tribalist answers

    do you have a reason for defending Liz, other than cuz she helps democrats?

    which of those vague concepts do you support?

    JF (f2644c)

  29. all of them, since they’re not Democrat vague concepts and that’s the party she’s been helping lately

    Non-responsive. You can’t point to a single policy issue from the 2016 GOP platform* where Ms. Cheney departs.

    * There is no 2020 platform, just a resolution that rejects Obama-Biden and proclaims that sunbeams shoot out of Trump’s a$$.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  30. Or something like that.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  31. @JF@28 How is asking which of the values at the link you gave does Liz stand against a tribalist question? It is a question that demands examination of only Liz’s direct actions. You should be able to give actual examples of ways she has acted against them without resorting to referencing the Democrats at all.

    Nic (896fdf)

  32. Since no one answered my question on the other thread, and it seems pertinent to this discussion, I’ll repeat it here. I invite anyone to explain, without resort to partisan tribalism, how Trump is a better/more authentic conservative than Liz Cheney.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  33. What are the principles of a party you could support? Not all of the 2012 GOP platform is viable and/or relevant today.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  34. So, sometime soon, when Donald Trump has been convicted of his many criminal acts, will the GOP devolve into a party of denial, holding on to the Dream of Donald Trump despite all reason (it’s all lies! I tell you). Or will it try to find it’s way back to some semblance of sanity.

    The first path leads to Nathan Bedford Forrest.
    The second path leads to Grover Cleveland.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  35. @3 I have been posting here as recently as today that reagan economic libertarian free trade conservatism has been replaced by populism. Nic Does anyone know? Yes I know and keep telling you for the umpteenth time. @34 Nathan bedford forrest founder of KKK and southern populist. Trumpsters now 85% of republican party loathe you never trumpers, just as the bernie/AOC wing and the clinton/biden wing of the democrat party loathe each other.

    asset (f59374)

  36. We must be brave enough to defend the basic principles that underpin and protect our freedom and our democratic process. I am committed to doing that, no matter what the short-term political consequences might be.

    She wasn’t talking about Republican Party “principles!”

    But about “principles that underpin and protect our freedom and our democratic process. ”

    Accepting the real results of elections. The constitution. Maybe not lying about it.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  37. @32. If you wanna call the play by play from the booth, you best know the teams and players in the game. For starters, Daughter Darth is a neocon; The Donald is not.

    DCSCA (6fe32d)

  38. The GOP promised to have its own hearing on January 6th, yet here we are and still nothing but a shrug…..mixed in with a lot of what-abouts and hopeful conspiracy theories of false flags, FBI incitement, it was Pelosi’s responsibility, it wasn’t that bad put some ice on it, yada yada yada.

    The party of personal responsibility wants none of it….and will fire Cheney et al to prove it. Her crime? She keeps talking about it expecting some accountability, some acceptance of the truth. But some here will declare that the truth helps the Democrats and commandment #1 is thou shall never help the Democrats. So change the subject, talk about Biden, push off the issue to the primaries, and, especially, clean house. Any talk should be about the stolen election….the one where’s there no real evidence of a stolen election…but there must have been, right?

    Will Herschel Walker, Doug Mastriano, Kari Lake, Dr. Oz, Blake Masters, and J. D. Vance lead a great GOP surge or will normal people vote for normalcy and reality? This parade of nonsense is what Trump has brought us. It’s not a great passion for conservative issues and principles like law and order, a strong national defense, and a preference for federalism….it’s about personality worship, settling scores, and unbelievable mediocrity.

    The Trumpers can celebrate the demise of Cheney and continue to build false realities. But as usual, Trumpism is primarily about destruction and self pleasuring. There’s nothing hopeful, inspiring, or lasting here…..just like Trump’s businesses, marriages, and promises. Congratulations on what you’ve encouraged, built, and protected…..what’s next or like Thanos are you now resting?

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  39. @32. If you wanna call the play by play from the booth, you best know the teams and players in the game. For starters, Daughter Darth is a neocon; The Donald is not.

    DCSCA (6fe32d) — 8/18/2022 @ 2:23 am

    That’s non-responsive. Shocker. We know that you and the (other?) paleocons here hate neocons, but like it or not they’re a faction of conservatism. And you haven’t explained how being a neocon makes one a less authentic conservative than Donald Trump is, who, in case you haven’t noticed, has no ideological affinity whatsoever beyond what pads his disordered ego and his inflated bank balance.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  40. Trump got Roe v Wade rightfully overturned.

    He had the economy roaring till Chinese Covid took the wind out of our sails. He deregulated more than our previous presidents and made us energy independent.

    That’s for starters.

    Liz only got 28% of the vote and that includes all those leftists she campaigned for to cross over and vote for her. Guess Pelosi’s support only goes so far.

    NJRob (41b427)

  41. Trump got Roe v Wade rightfully overturned.

    I think this does go in Trump’s ‘good’ column and it’s a huge deal that other Republicans were a lot less likely to achieve. It’s something other politicians need to think about. Trump deferred to people who cared about judges instead of using this issue politically. It worked and the results are awesome.

    He had the economy roaring till Chinese Covid took the wind out of our sails.

    Trump mishandled the economy, and he mishandled COVID, pretty terribly. He spent like a drunken sailor, like the lifelong liberal democrat he really is. I literally got a check from the treasury with Trump’s name on it. Trump utterly failed at immigration reform, a huge economic and safety problem, and he never developed any leadership ability or showed any legislative accomplishments. Even deregulating was a fake accomplishment, gone in seconds.

    Liz only got 28% of the vote

    So what? Trump was curbstomped in his last election too. Are we supposed to cry ourselves to sleep because some lame politician lost an election? Stop seeing the world that way. All career politicians are terrible. Trump included, even though he’s never gotten the most votes in an election during his decades as a politician.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  42. Dustin (a87c64) — 8/18/2022 @ 4:24 am

    Trump didn’t win any of those primaries in 2016 either. What a loser. He’s the only person elected POTUS while never getting the most votes.

    Are we supposed to cry ourselves to sleep because some lame politician lost an election?

    Be patient. The Liz fans need more time.

    frosty (fc3700)

  43. A federal judge is going to consider unsealing the affidavit today? I wonder if this will be one of those Trump appointed judges.

    frosty (fc3700)

  44. Are we supposed to cry ourselves to sleep because some lame politician lost an election?

    I would put it differently, as Donnie told Roy. Liz knew this was the eventuality a year and a half ago, when she voted to impeach. I doubt very much if she is crying about it. It’s wishful thinking, and projection, on the part of Trump supporters, somewhere in-between impeaching Merrick Garland and defunding the FBI. She is not Donald Trump.

    nk (753ba2)

  45. @38 normalcy and reality

    Is that what the Democrats represent? Reality about crime, inflation, a recession, and so forth? That’s not my impression. Crime stats are caused by police racism. There is no recession.

    @41 Trump mishandled the economy, and he mishandled COVID, pretty terribly.

    The lesson of Covid is that voters wanted someone who would appear impressive/consoling on TV, regardless of results. (See Andrew Cuomo.) I agree that Trump should have played this game more, though. He understood that we would have to “learn to live with it,” which Biden dismissed during one of the debates. Now everyone apparently agrees with that assessment. What else should have been handled differently? Are you claiming that the actual number of deaths could have been affected in a serious by the President? He can’t stop people being old/overweight.

    He spent like a drunken sailor, like the lifelong liberal democrat he really is. I literally got a check from the treasury with Trump’s name on it. Trump utterly failed at immigration reform, a huge economic and safety problem, and he never developed any leadership ability or showed any legislative accomplishments. Even deregulating was a fake accomplishment, gone in seconds.

    Immigration reform is not going anywhere until the Democrats accept enforcement-first. They want amnesty now in exchange for future promises of enforcement. That was tried in 1986 and did not work. And yes, deregulation through executive action is of course easily undone. I assume the anti-Trump Republicans understood that when they were voting for Biden?

    mikeybates (9166af)

  46. Wow! Talk about polishing your Trumpkin credentials (along with something else). Lie about your election even when you win:

    Liz Cheney releases call to Trump-backed opponent who said she didn’t concede

    Liz Cheney has released her concession call to Harriet Hageman, after the Trump-backed Republican who won the Wyoming US House primary on Tuesday told Fox News her rival had not made “any kind of concession or anything else”.

    Cheney gave a recording of the call to Politico. In it, she said: “Hi, Harriet, it is Liz Cheney calling. It is about 8.13 [pm] on Tuesday the 16th. I’m calling to concede the election and congratulate you on the win. Thanks.”

    Yes, sir! Wyoming voters really struck gold with Harriet Hageman.

    nk (753ba2)

  47. @1

    Trump owns the GOP.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/17/2022 @ 5:45 pm

    Not being flippant here.

    I don’t care.

    A better question should be is this: When is it justify to not vote AGAINST Democrats to prevent any democrats in office?

    No politicians are worthy of respect or adulation. They’re merely a tool to be discarded when their usefulness is suspect.

    whembly (b770f8)

  48. @43

    A federal judge is going to consider unsealing the affidavit today? I wonder if this will be one of those Trump appointed judges.

    frosty (fc3700) — 8/18/2022 @ 4:51 am

    My understanding it’s the same magistrate judge who approved of the warrant. Magistrate judges aren’t Article III judges nominated by POTUS. They’re selected via a pool by the district judges.

    whembly (b770f8)

  49. Immigration reform is not going anywhere until the Democrats accept enforcement-first.

    Trump had a deal, including $25 billion for Trump Wall, but he wouldn’t compromise on DACA.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  50. You want a continuation of this idiocy… people, cities, businesses being destroyed, children being poorly educated, castrated, sterilized, deformed?

    By all means, go ahead and vote for the sh*theel Democrats.

    Colonel Haiku (7f0c92)

  51. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/17/2022 @ 10:17 pm

    nor can you mention a part of the platform where DeSantis departs, yet Liz has said she would oppose him

    do you think Liz’s “broad coalition” has the goal of actually winning anything?

    winning for her will be measured by whether she can draw enough votes away to make the republican nominee lose, to help a democrat who shares none of her supposed values

    JF (e91d82)

  52. Years ago, I recall reading about studies where the researchers tried to learn what would make pilots fail. (Some of those pilots, after all, were carrying atomic bombs around, so you can see why researchers were interested in the problem.)

    They mistreated the pilots in many ways, for example, keeping them sleepless for days. And the pilots mostly kept performing pretty well.

    Except when the researchers messed up their feedback loop, telling the pilots they had failed at a task when they hadn’t, and vice versa. That caused the pilots to crash in their performance.

    And I think we are seeing something similar with voters. We have had worrisome problems with our journalists for years. (And I have been complaining about their bias longer than many of you have been alive.)

    Now Trump, having perfected his skills as a huckster and TV performer, has shown that a full-time con man can make things even worse than what biased journalists have been doing. (With, granted, some help from his friend, “Czar” Putin.)

    Many have attempted to defend him by arguing, sometimes correctly, that his opponents aren’t always truthful, either.

    But that’s as crazy as saying that, if one gauge is failing, you should install another that fails even worse.

    Some of you will have figured out by now that I am agreeing with the good Dana: “America cannot remain free if we abandon the truth. The lie that the 2020 presidential election was stolen is insidious.”

    YOu can be pro truth, or pro Trump; you can’t be both.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  53. nor can you mention a part of the platform where DeSantis departs, yet Liz has said she would oppose him

    I can. “Stolen and rigged election.”

    In Cheney’s eyes, DeSantis is tightly linked with Trump — whom she has repeatedly criticized for spreading debunked claims about the 2020 presidential election.

    “I think that Ron DeSantis has lined himself up almost entirely with Donald Trump, and I think that’s very dangerous,” she told the newspaper.

    Cheney, who has compiled a largely conservative voting record since her election to the House in 2016, said that she could support a Republican presidential candidate in 2024.

    However, she stated that she could not support a GOP candidate who declined to state that Trump lost a clean election to now-President Joe Biden in 2020.

    nk (753ba2)

  54. Come on, man! We know how to surf the internet. The GOP tent is only big enough to hold Trump and whomever he has in his pocket.

    nk (753ba2)

  55. “The left doesn’t have a hero. They persuade various people to step up and function like hired killers, out to get Trump. Pelosi, Schiff, Biden or whoever is in charge at the White House; no one seems to pretend they are Mount Rushmore material in any way.

    There are Trump supporters for whom Trump is a true hero, and many of us admire a kind of toughness and consistency in him. Remarkably, he seems law abiding and respectful of the Constitution compared to his enemies. So, the analogy no one likes. In the novel 1984 there was apparently a real Goldstein, and he has genuine supporters, so he has to be stopped, and his supporters have to be rounded up and suppressed. “We have always hated Goldstein, and we always will.”

    By comparison there may be no “Big Brother” at all, no hero on the side of the government, just a vague confidence that everyone working on the government side is somehow good, everything Goldstein, like freedom or enumerated rights, is bad.”

    —- Lloyd Robertson

    Colonel Haiku (7f0c92)

  56. Liz of Ard.

    Colonel Haiku (7f0c92)

  57. Trump had a deal, including $25 billion for Trump Wall, but he wouldn’t compromise on DACA.

    Doubt that a worthwhile deal could have been struck. The Democrats don’t believe in “walls.” Or, indeed, enforcement of immigration law, as we see at the moment.

    If they believed in enforcement, passing a bill for a wall, E-Verify, etc., shouldn’t be controversial. Then once all of that is in place we can talk about an amnesty. Given that Democratic administrations now essentially refuse to enforce immigration law, I am not optimistic.

    mikeybates (9166af)

  58. So, this PAC that Liz is setting up. Any thoughts on where the funding for that will come from? MIC or Big Pharma or Big Tech or all of the above? How many of the big money donors will be the same ones giving to D’s?

    frosty (3ae809)

  59. Probably the same bunch of lefties that fund the Bulwark, Dispatch and the North American Man Boy Lincoln Assoc. (Lincoln Proj.)…

    Colonel Haiku (7f0c92)

  60. nor can you mention a part of the platform where DeSantis departs, yet Liz has said she would oppose him

    Ms. Cheney support for a GOP is dependent on how in the bag for Trump the candidate is, given her stance that Trump is a danger to American democracy.

    Here’s her quote about DeSantis, and this is in context of her own presidential ambitions: “I think that Ron DeSantis has lined himself up almost entirely with Donald Trump, and I think that’s very dangerous.”

    I don’t believe DeSantis is fully on board with Trump’s Big Fat Lie and, to me, that’s reason enough to be open-minded about him. The rest of his governance is about being a Trumpy Mini Me without being unhinged and psychologically unfit.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  61. Doubt that a worthwhile deal could have been struck.

    And now we’ll never know because Trump took his DACA and went home, thanks in large part to his racist inner circle advisor, Stephen Miller.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  62. DeSantis is a prickly politician and some would say he’s a bit of a jerk.

    He’s confrontational and really savvy in a lot of ways, but he has some issues.

    For instance, can someone explain to me this?

    So, on the one hand, DeSantis removed a prosecutor because the prosecutor signed a document that assert that he’s not going to charge crimes relating to abortion.

    DeSantis apparently has the authority to do so, it the constitutionality of removing an elected official isn’t in question.

    What *is* in question is the appearance if hypocrisy, which leaves easy avenues for future attack, such as this:
    Marijuana in Florida is a controlled substance.

    Yet, officials in Tampa made it so that the offences amounts to a parking citation, in obvious conflict to state laws and the attorney over Tampa isn’t doing anything about it.

    Why isn’t DeSantis pulling the DA over not prosecuting the laws on the books?

    https://www.deantsourakis.com/what-happens-after-you-get-a-marijuana-citation-in-tampa/

    **caveat: I don’t know if the DeSantis administration is working towards liberalizing marijuana laws, so my claims of hypocrisy may be mooted.

    whembly (b770f8)

  63. So, this PAC that Liz is setting up. Any thoughts on where the funding for that will come from? MIC or Big Pharma or Big Tech or all of the above? How many of the big money donors will be the same ones giving to D’s?

    frosty (3ae809) — 8/18/2022 @ 7:51 am

    The initial funding ($7.4M) came from her House campaign committee, “Liz Cheney for Wyoming.” Interestingly, the largest group of donors identify as “retired,” so who knows what industries are involved. Probably other PACs, and outside groups and individuals opposed to Donald Trump.

    For her House campaign

    ……..She received $79,500 from GOP leadership PACs and $12,900 from candidate committees, making a total of $92,400 from Republican committees and PACs. She also raised $635,500 from other PACs.

    The Believe in America PAC, affiliated with Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah), gave Cheney $10,000. Romney joined Cheney in voting to impeach Trump after the Jan. 6 insurrection. The Future First Leadership PAC, affiliated with Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.), gave Cheney $10,000.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  64. And now we’ll never know because Trump took his DACA and went home, thanks in large part to his racist inner circle advisor, Stephen Miller.

    Obviously in any negotiation you have to be willing to walk away. But yeah, it’s hard to negotiate with people who are opposed to any enforcement of immigration law as a matter of course.

    I don’t believe DeSantis is fully on board with Trump’s Big Fat Lie and, to me, that’s reason enough to be open-minded about him. The rest of his governance is about being a Trumpy Mini Me without being unhinged and psychologically unfit.

    So Youngkin would be okay? Or not? Because most of the professional anti-Trump Republicans opposed Youngkin.

    mikeybates (46f6c6)

  65. @64 You are not going to get to a not-Trump candidate if that candidate trashes Trump (and by extension to his supporters).

    DeSantis is following the Younkin model, here.

    whembly (b770f8)

  66. I’m sorry…what??

    The high-level U.S. government officials explain that it was not necessarily the classification level of the documents nor even their subject matter that investigators were focused on.

    https://www.newsweek.com/fbi-sought-documents-trump-hoarded-years-including-about-russiagate-1734280

    whembly (b770f8)

  67. Lots of whats:

    Trump administration officials, including former national security advisor John Bolton, have described how the president regularly tore out pages from intelligence reports, or took away documents which interested him to his White House residence. Most of those documents had the potential to reveal U.S. intelligence “sources and methods,” as Newsweek reported.

    The Washington Post reported that those documents dealt with nuclear weapons, adding on Tuesday, “People familiar with the investigation did not offer additional details, such as whether the documents being sought involved weapons belonging to the United States or another nation.”

    He should be in Gitmo.

    nk (2e9417)

  68. No wonder he’s desperate to 1) see the affidavit and 2) get his passports back. But how will he evade the Secret Service detail?

    nk (2e9417)

  69. What a couple of bumfuzzled corksoakers. Hayden the bald headed eunuch…

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/howdidweloseafghanistan.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (3b3b9b)

  70. @39. Except it is. If you wanna call the play-by-play, learn the teams and the players in the game.

    DCSCA (24ce61)

  71. Amazing when people who allege conservative values tar others with racism for enforcing immigration law.

    Bad faith as comes from the left.

    NJRob (dcea85)

  72. @70. Some swamp creatures are easy to tag and bag: best Hayden tail- when he was caught leaking to the press on a NY/DC train in the Obama days– and now ‘advocates’ executing leakers a la Rosenbergs. Too funny.

    DCSCA (24ce61)

  73. So Youngkin would be okay? Or not? Because most of the professional anti-Trump Republicans opposed Youngkin.

    Youngkin is fine by me, more than DeSantis. I don’t speak for “professional anti-Trump Republicans”, nor they me, whoever they are.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  74. weisselberg agrees to testify against the Trump Organization.

    DRJ (2c50d9)

  75. Weisselberg’s plea agreement calls for him to serve five months at the Rikers Island jail, though he could be freed after 100 days.

    Source

    Given the number of in-custody deaths at Rikers, 100 days could seem like a lifetime.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  76. Fast forward to mid-November, when the Democrats hold the House and take 3 Senate seats from Trump-endorsed candidates.

    Old: Cheney lost! Democracy triumphed.
    New: The election was rigged! We need Trump now, more than ever!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  77. Given the number of in-custody deaths at Rikers, 100 days could seem like a lifetime.

    He probably won’t be in GenPop.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  78. He’s the only person elected POTUS while never getting the most votes.

    Untrue: Both John Quincy Adams and Rutherford B Hayes lost the popular vote in each election election.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  79. You want a continuation of this idiocy… people, cities, businesses being destroyed, children being poorly educated, castrated, sterilized, deformed?

    By all means, go ahead and vote for the sh*theel Democrats.

    Maybe putting up sh1theel Republicans isn’t the best path, eh?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  80. Breaking:

    Judge Orders Justice Dept. to Redact and Release Version of Affidavit Used to Search Trump’s Home

    With redactions there still won’t be too much to see.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  81. “weisselberg agrees to testify against the Trump Organization.”

    Sh*t jus got real… now teh bodies in oil barrels start showing up in Biscayne Bay

    Colonel Haiku (cc51b2)

  82. DOJ battles in court to keep Mar-a-Lago warrant details secret

    WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — A top Justice Department official said Thursday that the investigation into the handling of classified records housed at former President Donald Trump’s private residence is “in its early stages,” suggesting a long road ahead for the explosive probe.

    Bullsh-t. And Hunter?

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (6dc960)

  83. ^ politico.com

    DCSCA (6dc960)

  84. “After the Russian collusion hoax, lying to FISA judges to get ‘permission’ to spy on the Trump campaign, spreading the fake Steele Dossier (with John McCain’s help remember), and the entrapment of Michael Flynn…it has been established the DOJ and FBI are flagrant abusers. They are totalitarian and corrupt, and now operate a two tiered system of justice.

    We’re supposed to believe that this time it’s not political and completely legit. Oh bullsh*t.”

    Colonel Haiku (cc51b2)

  85. NeverTrump and Cannolis Hardest Hit…

    “ Brian Stelter To Leave CNN As Network Drops ‘Reliable Sources’ “

    https://deadline.com/2022/08/brian-stelter-leaves-cnn-1235095457/

    Colonel Haiku (cc51b2)

  86. I’m cynically tempted to start a supermarket check-out weekly tabloid titled “Trump World”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  87. @86. Pork… chopped.

    DCSCA (9ee9d7)

  88. Stelter & Toobin: the jerk and the jerk-off jerked off the air.

    “This is CNN.”- Darth Vader 😉

    DCSCA (9ee9d7)

  89. Colonel Haiku (cc51b2) — 8/18/2022 @ 12:33 pm

    lying to FISA judges to get ‘permission’ to spy on the Trump campaign,

    No, no no. Jams Comey’s FBI never did that..

    The FISA warrant was only on someone (Carter Page) who had left the Trump campaign.

    George Papadopoulos was also later (2017) investigated.

    Although there seems to have been an attempt – probably undertaken on his own without FBI prompting – by someone to infiltrate the Trump campaign

    spreading the fake Steele Dossier (with John McCain’s help remember),

    John McCain gave a copy to the FBI, not knowing they already had it, and he didn’t spread it to anyone else. He heard about in Halifax, Nova Scotia and got it directly from Steele later.

    and the entrapment of Michael Flynn

    I think they were trying to get him fired, because they thought he was probably a Russian spy – which he probably was, and is. But he was prosecuted only for being a foreign agent for Turkey.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  90. Who is the rat at Mar-A-Lago?

    ……….
    According to multiple sources close to Trump, suspicions initially centered on Nicholas Luna, the longtime Trump body-man who stepped back from his duties around March, and Molly Michael, the former Trump White House Oval Office operations chief, who remains on payroll but is due to soon depart.

    Luna was subpoenaed by the congressional investigation into the January 6 Capitol attack but has not spoken to the FBI about this case, one of the sources said. And although Michael is slated to also leave Trump’s orbit, the source said, her departure – like Luna’s – is not acrimonious.

    The focus in the middle of the week shifted to Mar-a-Lago employees and other staff at the members-only resort in Palm Beach, Florida, the sources said, seemingly in part because the FBI knew exactly which rooms and where in the rooms they needed to search.

    But towards the weekend, and following the revelation that the FBI removed a leather-bound box from the property and already knew the location of Trump’s safe, scrutiny shifted once more to anyone else who had not yet been suspected – including members of Trump’s family, the sources said.
    ……….

    Of course, that is why Trump and his supporters want the unredacted affidavit released: to expose the identities of who has been talking to the FBI/DOJ and the identities of the FBI agents themselves.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  91. Who is the rat at Mar-A-Lago?

    Basil.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fil8zTLcLc&t=1953s

    DCSCA (9ee9d7)

  92. Judge says he’s inclined to unseal parts of Mar-a-Lago search affidavit, orders government to submit redactions

    The Justice Department argued that releasing the justification for the search could jeopardize the investigation and put witnesses in the case at risk.

    I have to agree with the “wackos” on this one — this is a bad judge. Good judges do not do what they are inclined to do. They do what the law obliges them to do. When the law grants them discretion, they exercise it in favor of precedent, custom and practice.

    Moreover, this is an instance where half a loaf is not better than none. The redactions, instead of satisfying anyone, are just going to raise more clamor.

    He should have done like numerous other judges have done numerous times and said “You’ll see it when you’re charged”.

    nk (2e9417)

  93. Trump mishandled the economy, and he mishandled COVID, pretty terribly. He spent like a drunken sailor, like the lifelong liberal democrat he really is (emphasis mine).

    Dustin (a87c64) — 8/18/2022 @ 4:24 am

    A quibble. The notion that Trump was a lifelong Democrat is an urban legend. During the years for which we know his party affiliation, he was a Republican for 24 years, a Democrat for 8, and an independent for 4. And his 8 years as a Democrat weren’t the earliest. They followed 12 years as a Republican.

    It’s understandable why sane people in both parties would want to foist Trump on their opponents, but the truth is he’s never had an iota of loyalty to either party or the principles they purport to stand for. For one thing, he’s loyal to nothing and no one beyond his pathologies and self-interest. He’s a liar who chooses the label of the moment that serves him. And on the issues he’s always been all over the map. That leads party loyalists to cherry pick the positions that violate partisan litmus tests and say it proves he’s a [whatever the other side is]. But that’s just No-True-Scotsman-ing. As an unaffiliated independent myself, I hate to say it, but he’s never authentically been “of” either party, only his own. I hope my independence is more principled than his, but whatever. The parties have their psychos and scoundrels and we have ours. Anyway, safe to say he’s burned his bridges for ever again being a Democrat, but does anyone doubt there’s nothing he wouldn’t call himself tomorrow if he thought it would profit him?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  94. @39. Except it is. If you wanna call the play-by-play, learn the teams and the players in the game.

    DCSCA (24ce61) — 8/18/2022 @ 10:23 am

    If you’re going to waste my time with pointless non-sequiturs and ipse dixits, at least give me the courtesy of a pfft or a mike-drop.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  95. However, she stated that she could not support a GOP candidate who declined to state that Trump lost a clean election to now-President Joe Biden in 2020.

    nk (753ba2) — 8/18/2022 @ 7:03 am

    I’m with Liz. Neither can I.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  96. Youngkin is fine by me, more than DeSantis. I don’t speak for “professional anti-Trump Republicans”, nor they me, whoever they are.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/18/2022 @ 10:42 am

    Ditto. I suspect, according to our resident Trump apologists, that makes us Stalinists. Or Maoists. Or maybe it’s anarcho syndicalists. Soy boys? I don’t. The only thing I’m sure of is we’re not real Americans.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  97. *I don’t know.*

    (I admit it. I miss the preview function.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  98. https://www.newser.com/story/324381/on-mar-a-lago-affidavit-judge-sees-a-middle-ground.html

    In a hearing in Florida, federal Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart asked the government to suggest redactions in the document that would allow its release without causing harm to the investigation of former President Trump’s handling of classified documents, the Washington Post reports. Reinhart said the public should be provided as “much information” as possible about the case, while acknowledging that heavy redactions could turn the document into “meaningless gibberish,” per the New York Times.

    “Transparency serves the public interest in understanding and accepting the results,” a lawyer for the outlets told the judge, adding, “You can’t trust what you cannot see.” A Justice Department official listed potential damage, saying a release of even parts of the document could reveal sensitive grand jury information, telegraph next steps in the investigation, and have a chilling effect on potential witnesses. The official also cited concern for the safety of witnesses. The judge asked for the redaction proposals to be in by next Thursday, when he expects to make his decision.

    A Trump lawyer attended the hearing but offered no motion. The former president’s legal team is undecided on whether a release would be beneficial to his case, per the Post> …..

    What exactly is sensitive about this investihgation that could impede it?

    They’ve already exected the search warrant, and it only concerns documents that may have been in Trump’s possession. The only other thing is his general handling of documents, but that’s not criminal, unless maybe they suspect a spy was in Trump’s employ – in which case you would think they would want him or her to be dismissed.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  99. What exactly is sensitive about this investihgation that could impede it?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/18/2022 @ 3:34 pm

    We don’t know what we don’t know, which is how criminal investigations are supposed to work until they’re ripe enough to either bring charges or decide that none should be brought. One possible area of sensitivity in the affidavit is witness testimony which could put potential defendants on notice of how to tailor or fabricate their own testimony if/when they’re brought before the grand jury.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  100. 81.

    Correction: Aug. 18, 2022

    A previous version of this article and an accompanying headline mischaracterized a federal judge’s order on the F.B.I. affidavit underlying a search of Mar-a-Lago. The judge ordered the Justice Department to redact the affidavit for a possible release, not to redact and release it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  101. The media has no standing to even appear. Only the property owner does.

    nk (54a19e)

  102. OT- Perspective.

    Voyager, NASA’s Longest-Lived Mission, Logs 45 Years in Space

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/voyager-nasa-s-longest-lived-mission-logs-45-years-in-space

    Vividly recall watching the launch; they televised things like this… back when America truly was great.

    DCSCA (62fd60)

  103. What exactly is sensitive about this investihgation that could impede it?

    Names of cooperating witnesses/confidential informants; subjects/titles of classified documents, etc. The affidavit would be much more detailed than the search warrant.

    That is why Trump and his supporters want it to released.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  104. Nick Luna was also the name of a younger relative of Fred Thompson. 2 of the 5 bullet points in this article (Vanderbilt plus working with a 2008 R presidential candidate, acting) might seem to confirm this.

    urbanleftbehind (b49a97)

  105. @95. Peddle popcorn; stay out of the broadcast booth.

    DCSCA (62fd60)

  106. This might be the next best thing you could have done, Fred.

    https://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0208/A_Fredhead_for_McCain.html

    urbanleftbehind (b49a97)

  107. 94, maybe he’s planning his post DeSantis nom future:

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-roils-n-y-democrats-153705758.html

    urbanleftbehind (b49a97)

  108. What I think this magistrate judge is doing is racking up “blue slip” points with Rubio and Scott for appointment to full judge, that’s what I think he’s doing.

    nk (54a19e)

  109. I don’t blame DeSantis for trying to thread the needle. Since we don’t have a parliamentary system (where, roughly speaking, if 3% of the voters are of party X, 3% of the seats in the parliament will be held by party X), we can’t vote for the “Pure Party” candidate we think stands for all truth and holiness, safe in the knowledge that said candidate will get a seat in parliament, even though other parties may win more seats.

    No. We have a winner-take-all, first-past-the-post system, where parties must scramble to get as many votes as possible, because small fry won’t even get a seat at the table. The presidential candidate must garner the support of various factions to receive a majority (or plurality) of votes. To do that, the candidate must equivocate.

    This is all the more true now, because Trump still has a rabid base of supporters, and he has enough of them to sabotage any Republican’s chances of winning the presidency if the Republican in question is as blunt as Liz Cheney is about Trump.

    We are now in the position of looking for clues as to whether a candidate really believes Trump’s Big Lie about the “stolen” election, or whether the candidate is just being savvy in order to win. We also have to guess as to how far the candidate will go to appease the MAGA crazies after winning.

    So, I’m not going to give people like DeSantis a litmus test, and demand a clear declaration that Trump lost the 2020 election. That is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    Behold what Trump hath wrought.

    norcal (da5491)

  110. For those who think roe was rightfully decided by 6 republicans on the supreme court. Slave holders thought Dred Scott was rightfully decided by the Tanney court. John Brown at is hanging said “This issue of slavery is still to be decided.” It was decided on july 3 1863 cemetary ridge gettysburg, pennsylvania. The abortion issue is still to be decided by the american people. Remember anti-abortionists wimp corporate establishment liberals like biden are not your only enemy.

    asset (fe8eca)

  111. …and he now faces a roadblock of his own..https://news.yahoo.com/trio-suits-target-florida-woke-153159796.html

    urbanleftbehind (b49a97)

  112. That is why Trump and his supporters want it to released.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/18/2022 @ 4:28 pm

    The supporters want it released because Trump tells them he wants it released. And he tells them he wants it released because that’s integral to the conspiracy theory he fabricated to separate his marks from their social security checks. But Trump doesn’t want it released. Maybe that’s because doing so would expose the lengths to which DOJ went to obtain the return of classified material without resorting to a search warrant, and the lengths to which Trump went to evade and obstruct those efforts, necessitating the search.

    But that’s speculation. Without seeing the affidavit, we can’t know for sure. What he can know for sure is that if Trump wanted the affidavit released, his lawyers would have shown up at the hearing to make those wishes known. But they didn’t. That they were nowhere in sight to convey Trump’s wishes to the only audience that matters (the magistrate judge), not what he says to his credulous followers on Truth Social, is what tells you what he actually wants. Kinda like when Rudi screamed election fraud to the whole world except to the judges with the power to sanction him for disseminating arrant bullsh1t.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  113. @114. tl;dr

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  114. … disseminating arrant bullsh1t.

    It’s called the President’s DAB in Wilmington.

    Or is it Scranton this week.

    DCSCA (568ef3)

  115. Biden calls Liz Cheney after primary election loss

    ‘President Joe Biden called Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) after the incumbent lost her reelection bid earlier this week. The call was placed on Wednesday, one day after the race was called in favor of Trump-backed Harriet Hageman, according to Bloomberg News. It’s not clear what the conversation entailed, but it came hours after Cheney suggested a presidential run in 2024.’ – Bloomberg.com

    Idiot’s Delight!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNFffHQOXMc&t=6s

    DCSCA (568ef3)

  116. OT-

    New York 9/11 museum closes after telling tragedy’s story, helping survivors heal

    ‘NEW YORK (Reuters) – A museum in New York City that told the story of the 9/11 attacks from the perspectives of the people affected has closed its building and ended its walking tours, a co-founder said Thursday.

    After shuttering the doors of the 16-year-old 9/11 Tribute Museum Wednesday evening, volunteers spent Thursday morning coordinating the pickup of a World Trade Center steel beam that was heading for storage, along with other artifacts such as first responders’ gear and parts of the two planes that crashed into the buildings.

    Attendance has decreased from nearly 300,000 a year prior to a six-month closure in 2020 due to the coronavirus pandemic to a record low of 26,000 in 2021, said Jennifer Adams-Webb, a co-founder of the museum and CEO of the non-profit September 11th Families’ Association, which helped start the museum.

    “The visitors just aren’t back,” she said, saying the only way the museum would have been able to stay open was with government support. It had been unable to secure that, despite months of conversations with the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs and other offices, she said. The Department of Cultural Affairs did not immediately respond to a Reuters request for comment.’

    DCSCA (568ef3)

  117. What is Trump’s platform? Near as I can tell it’s

    1) Securing the southern border
    2) Ending foreign adventures, like NATO, while keeping America safe.
    3) Protecting the middle class
    4) Returning jobs to America, especially jobs you don’t need a college diploma for.
    5) Protecting traditional American values
    6) Restoring the ideological balance in the courts.
    7) Reducing regulations and empowering business.
    8) Making America energy independent.
    9) In all matters, America First.

    I’m sure I missed some, but I think that’s most of it. I’m not blind to his appeal, but I don’t think he’s the guy who will get it done, even if J6 had never happened.

    Let’s see how he did in 4 years in office. True he had opposition, but Reagan had more. Could he take care of business?

    1) C-. He built some of the wall, but not enough to matter. He instituted some reforms, but by EO which his successor promptly cancelled. Most points for “Remain in Mexico” which Biden has had trouble revoking.

    2) D. He was effective in not starting more wars, and got us out of Iraq/Syria by beating ISIS. But he really didn’t move the needle much. Biden’s terrible, no good withdrawal from Afghanistan had roots in Trump’s term. Several major foreign threats (Iran/NK) remain, and have gotten worse. I would have liked to see Mattis’ plan for crushing North Korea. I won’t blame him for NATO as we need NATO.

    3 & 4) B. The result of his term has been to distance the world from China. Manufacturing is coming back to America, as are jobs. Foreign firms are opening plants here. It helps A LOT that Biden has followed on, but without Trump much of this would not have happened.

    5) Meh. Just Meh. No grade possible as it’s such a freaking mess.

    6) A. Just quite excellent, although it was McConnell ramming through judges that the Federalist Society sourced (DOnald Trump did not read the resumes or opinions) but still it required Trump to let it happen. There are other places where he got in the way (e.g. NK); he didn’t here.

    7) C-. Some, not enough. A president more aware of where the levers were would have done more, and made it stick.

    8) A-/B+. Would have been better if there were fewer EOs and more law. As it stands, Biden has managed to toss a lot away through his own EOs.

    9) Remains to be seen, The cynic might thing it was Trump First. In any event, sometimes the obvious path is not the right one.

    Now, is Trump the man to continue this, particularly the parts where he failed? Would DeSantis do a better job. Would another Republican who was willing to follow the same path? This is important because about 25% of the base WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM. You can complain about that, or you can find someone else who they will vote for, who will still move the ball downfield.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  118. @119 and Kevin’s analysis, I think much of it is fair, though I would challenge 3 & 4 based on what I can find of objective analysis.

    https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/what-did-donald-trump-accomplish-for-american-manufacturing/

    Maybe he scores a “B” in terms of rhetoric, but in terms of follow through and policy effect, I struggle to go much above a “C-“. Now some of that is impacted by a poorly conceived pandemic policy that wiped out much of the gains in ’16 and ’17, but that’s the job. Also, too much of Trump’s efforts focused on Executive Orders which are simply reversed when he lost. There was little legislation that would actually change policy over the long haul. Because legislation is hard and requires winning people over and finding room to compromise. That wasn’t really part of the Trump playbook…by design. Read the article for more analysis of the policies and results.

    I think Trump needs to also be scored on the health of the GOP and its loss of Congress…and now its positioning to retake it. Are his endorced inexperienced candidates….Herschel Walker, Dr Oz, and JD Vance (+ others in Arizona and beyond)….the best the GOP could have done? The GOP will likely lose Georgia and Pennsylvania….and Vance will make it really close in very red Ohio. I would give him a “D” as party leader, but time will tell…

    AJ_Liberty (c916b7)

  119. Herschel Walker, Dr Oz, and JD Vance

    If you’re a star, Trump will let you grab him by the endorsement.

    nk (7c9b00)

  120. @112

    I don’t blame DeSantis for trying to thread the needle. Since we don’t have a parliamentary system (where, roughly speaking, if 3% of the voters are of party X, 3% of the seats in the parliament will be held by party X), we can’t vote for the “Pure Party” candidate we think stands for all truth and holiness, safe in the knowledge that said candidate will get a seat in parliament, even though other parties may win more seats.

    No. We have a winner-take-all, first-past-the-post system, where parties must scramble to get as many votes as possible, because small fry won’t even get a seat at the table. The presidential candidate must garner the support of various factions to receive a majority (or plurality) of votes. To do that, the candidate must equivocate.

    This is all the more true now, because Trump still has a rabid base of supporters, and he has enough of them to sabotage any Republican’s chances of winning the presidency if the Republican in question is as blunt as Liz Cheney is about Trump.

    We are now in the position of looking for clues as to whether a candidate really believes Trump’s Big Lie about the “stolen” election, or whether the candidate is just being savvy in order to win. We also have to guess as to how far the candidate will go to appease the MAGA crazies after winning.

    So, I’m not going to give people like DeSantis a litmus test, and demand a clear declaration that Trump lost the 2020 election. That is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    Behold what Trump hath wrought.

    norcal (da5491) — 8/18/2022 @ 4:48 pm

    Yeah… all of this.

    Winning elections is about stitching enough coalitions for you base to win. It’s messy, and “thread needling” is required, moreso now.

    If you don’t want Trump to run, NOW is the time get behind your preferred candidate that can go “head to head” to Trump AND can win against Joe Biden in the general.

    I honestly think that’s DeSantis, only because it’s obvious to everyone that he wants it. I think I’d prefer Youngkin, but I’m not sure if he wants that.

    Regardless who that is, NOW…NOW is the time to agitate within the grassroots for these candidates and it needs to go 100%, full blown presidential election season once mid-terms are over. Don’t “wait” or “react” to Trump… just do it.

    whembly (b770f8)

  121. Whembly,

    Do you appreciate that, since Trump makes everything a loyalty test, and so do his followers, this is very hard to pull off? I realize there is hope in the polling, but I don’t see the current lot of politicians in the GOP being smart enough to navigate this.

    Appalled (3d86ed)

  122. Kevin, I would add a #10 for tax cuts and, to me, he gets D because they stimulated an economy that didn’t need stimulating and added over a trillion to our national debt. Also, tariffs are a tax increase on the American people, and had amp up deficit-increasing subsidies to those who harmed by his tariffs.

    #11 was canceling Obamacare and replacing it with something better. I give that an F. But you never know, maybe we’ll see his plan in two weeks, and pull my finger.

    Under “keeping America safe”, he didn’t, not when you include his dishonesty and mismanagement of a pandemic.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  123. @124

    Whembly,

    Do you appreciate that, since Trump makes everything a loyalty test, and so do his followers, this is very hard to pull off? I realize there is hope in the polling, but I don’t see the current lot of politicians in the GOP being smart enough to navigate this.

    Appalled (3d86ed) — 8/19/2022 @ 7:36 am

    I’m not saying it’s easy.

    I’m saying it’s hard, and the hard work has to start NOW.

    Give Trump an off ramp where he retains his dignity, influence or what have yous.

    But, if his critics keeps going on this path where Trump *must* be punished for his bad deeds, and any novel legal theories is on the table to achieve that. I fear, a Trump backed into a corner is going to force him to run again and exact retribution against his enemies. Furthering the destructive norms perpetuated by the Trump factions and his critics. There will be collateral damage that I’m not sure we can come back from.

    whembly (b770f8)

  124. “NOW is the time get behind your preferred candidate”

    And we can’t have 10 different ones….and this is where functional Parties and smoke-filled back rooms used to come into play. If we get 10 people splitting the vote, then who emerges with the largest collection of die-hard supporters? Will Cruz, Pompeo, Haley, DeSantis, Rubio, Pence, Cotton, Hogan, Cheney, Tim Scott, and Kristi Noem all run? Will any do the noble thing if (when) Trump enters the race? Unfortunately Hogan and Cheney don’t have a shot at the nomination. With Trump in there, Pence has no path to winning. Pompeo does not have enough name recognition or star power. Noem too might be a little too obscure and ripe for this battle. Not sure if Rubio has anything new to sell to the electorate, so that would take us down to DeSantis, Haley, Cruz, Cotton, and Scott. The GOP doesn’t need 3 senators in the race so maybe pick one and have a field of 3 to oppose Trump with early primaries testing the chops of DeSantis and Haley. I probably couldn’t support Cruz in this field, so would prefer Cotton or Scott, though I can’t imagine that either polls significantly.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  125. Give Trump an off ramp where he retains his dignity, influence or what have yous.

    Why, when you can just run him off the road and tow the wreck to the junkyard? And that’s probably his plan B, too.

    To him, an off-ramp would be a second chance. To make a U-turn and come back the wrong way for a head-on collision.

    nk (7c9b00)

  126. Larry Correia
    @monsterhunter45
    She had lost the Wyoming primary by 40 points.
    He was a disgraced CNN anchor.
    Together, could they learn to love again?
    HOT POTATO
    Coming soon to Lifetime Original pictures.

    Colonel Haiku (d9425d)

  127. “NOW is the time get behind your preferred candidate”

    And we can’t have 10 different ones….and this is where functional Parties and smoke-filled back rooms used to come into play. If we get 10 people splitting the vote, then who emerges with the largest collection of die-hard supporters? Will Cruz, Pompeo, Haley, DeSantis, Rubio, Pence, Cotton, Hogan, Cheney, Tim Scott, and Kristi Noem all run?

    The smoke-filled rooms have been replaced by Super PACs and megadonors-Kenneth Griffin (Citadel LLC, $49.5M to Republicans in 21-22); Richard Uihlein (Uline Inc., $48.6M); Peter Thiel (Thiel Capital, $30.1M); Jeffrey S. & Janine Yass (Susquehanna International Group, $28.5M); or Stephen A. Schwarzman (Blackstone Group, $21.8M), all of whom only donated to Republicans.

    Most of those listed above won’t even make it to the first primaries unless they have the backing of sugar daddy (like Adelson’s backing Newt Gingrich in 2012 to the tune of $20M). Outside of DeSantis, the other candidates don’t have the poll numbers to support a Presidential run.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  128. Give Trump an off ramp where he retains his dignity

    Retain his what?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  129. Since we don’t have a parliamentary system (where, roughly speaking, if 3% of the voters are of party X, 3% of the seats in the parliament will be held by party X)

    I think you mean proportional representation.

    Most Parliamentary systems are first past the post (plurality wins)

    In Canada, the Liberal Party of Justin Trudeau regularly collects fewer votes than the Conservative Party, but wins

    See also

    “Seven Ways that the Canadian Electoral system is UNFAIR

    This is a PDF file – I cannot give you a link with this version of Chrome but you can find it with Gooogle.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  130. Maybe he scores a “B” in terms of rhetoric, but in terms of follow through and policy effect, I struggle to go much above a “C-“.

    He got a lot of his grade by happenstance (e.g. Covid), but he lost points to that elsewhere

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  131. Kevin, I would add a #10 for tax cuts and, to me, he gets D because they stimulated an economy that didn’t need stimulating and added over a trillion to our national debt.

    He gets a D. Yes. The tax cuts were tax increases for the upper middle class. The upper class avoided the tax hikes through a lower top rate cancelling the lost of SALT deductions. It was only a tax cut if you took the standard deduction and/or had kids. And Biden has overturned the business cuts.

    Also, tariffs are a tax increase on the American people, and had amp up deficit-increasing subsidies to those who harmed by his tariffs.

    Tariffs should be understood as SIN TAXES. It’s a tax to discourage certain purchases. No different really than tobacco taxes, except maybe you’d argue that buying a TV from China isn’t as bad as cancer sticks. Depends how you value the two, really. No one has to pay sin taxes.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  132. Give Trump an off ramp where he retains his dignity, influence or what have yous.

    If you actually listen to the rhetoric — “worst danger to out country since ever!” — you’d hear a call to all unbalanced wannabe heroes to pick up that gun and save us.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  133. Tariffs should be understood as SIN TAXES.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/19/2022 @ 8:20 pm

    I’m all for sin taxes. They fund Nevada, where I live, and I don’t sin. 😛

    norcal (da5491)


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