Patterico's Pontifications

8/8/2022

Trump: Mara-a-Lago “Under Siege” As FBI Executes Search Warrant

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:17 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Big::

Former President Donald Trump said in a statement Monday that his home at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida, was “raided” by “a large group of FBI agents.”

Trump also claimed the presence of law enforcement was unannounced and the reason was politically motivated, though he did not provide specifics.

“These are dark times for our Nation, as my beautiful home, Mar-A-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida, is currently under siege, raided, and occupied by a large group of FBI agents,” Trump said in a lengthy email statement issued by his Save America political committee.

“After working and cooperating with the relevant Government agencies, this unannounced raid on my home was not necessary or appropriate,” Trump said before bemoaning: “They even broke into my safe!”

The Justice Dept. is keeping mum about the raid.

A big deal, indeed:

Meanwhile, this is quite the take:

Donald Trump was reportedly not at Mar-a-Lago when the search took place.

It’s amusing that Trump claimed his residence “under siege, raided, and occupied by a large group of FBI agents” who were lawfully doing their jobs, and yet on Jan. 6 when the Capitol was under siege, raided and occupied by a large group of rioters and lawbreakers, he told them that he loved them, and that they were very special.

Here is Trump’s full statement:

“These are dark times for our Nation, as my beautiful home, Mar-A-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida, is currently under siege, raided, and occupied by a large group of FBI agents. Nothing like this has ever happened to a President of the United States before. After I working and cooperating with the relevant Government agencies, this unannounced raid on my home was not necessary or appropriate. It is prosecutorial misconduct, the weaponization of the Justice System, and an attack by Radical Left Democrats who desperately don’t want me to run for President in 2024, especially based on recent polls, and who will likewise do anything to stop Republicans and Conservatives in the upcoming Midterm Elections. Such an assault could only take place in broken, Third-World Countries. Sadly, America has now become one of those Countries, corrupt at a level not seen before. They even broke into my safe! What is the difference between this and Watergate, where operatives broke into the Democrat National Committee? Here, in reverse, Democrats broke into the home of the 45th President of the United States.

“The political persecution of President Donald J. Trump has been going on for years, with the now fully debunked Russia, Russia, Russia Scam, Impeachment Hoax 11, Impeachment Hoax #2, and so much more, it just never ends, it is political targeting at the highest level!

“Hillary Clinton was allowed to delete and acid wash 33,000 E-mails AFTER they were subpoenaed by Congress. Absolutely nothing has happened to hold her accountable. She even took antique furniture, and other items from the White House.

“I stood up to America’s bureaucratic corruption, I restored power to the people, and truly delivered for our Country, like we have never seen before. The establishment hated it. Now, as they watch my endorsed candidates win big victories, and see my dominance in all polls, they are trying to stop me, and the Republican Party, once more. The lawlessness, political persecution, and Witch Hunt must be exposed and stopped.

“I will continue to fight for the Great American People!”

–Dana

323 Responses to “Trump: Mara-a-Lago “Under Siege” As FBI Executes Search Warrant”

  1. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. It was just a normal tourist visit.

    nk (8085fc)

  3. Regarding that raid on Mar-a-Swampo: I’ll bet some musicians are already practicing a new version of that old song. Instead of “Hail to the Chief”, it will be “Jail to the Chief”.

    I hope all the FBI agents are up-to-date on their shots.

    (Cross posted at Political Betting.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  4. And a quick search showed me that there are already bumper stickers and T-shirts with “Jail to the Chief” on them.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  5. I just posted Trump’s full statement at the post.

    Dana (1225fc)

  6. I checked, and Trump did say “Impeachment Hoax 11”.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  7. Really, really tone deaf move and piss-poor timing by DOJ and FBI. This is only going to pour fuel on the simmering populist movement in Trump’s favor and bring the kettle to a boil again as the midterms approach.

    For angry populists trying to find baby formula and affordable gas, your home is your castle; and the government just raided his. Next it will be theirs.

    And yesterday, the Royalists cheered adding 87,000 IRS agents to come after their tips and yard sale dollars as well. Today, the Royalists break into the house safe of a former POTUS– awhile Hunter’s laptop languishes for years. And murdered Ashli Babbitt. So, so stupid.

    The Royalist establishment dweebs are weak; and scared. Clearly frightened of an ever growing populism they can’t control and of the current flag bearer, Trump. If it’s not him, it’ll be another. But this certainly won’t quash it.

    DCSCA (68b0f4)

  8. Well, they are certainly drawing the lines and showing they don’t give a fig what much – if not most – of the country believes.

    Colonel Haiku (d2911b)

  9. @9. The “figleaf” is they were after “classified documents” under the Presidential Records Act– which is even dumber.

    This government classifies so much inane crap -and a POTUS can declassify what he wants anyway- he may very well have Pat Nixon’s recipe for chocolate chip cookies in his safe and they want it back. This stinks of high level harassment fueled by fear. Their internal polls mush have them getting crushed in the midterms.

    DCSCA (68b0f4)

  10. The guy’s a nutjob. For example,now:

    “Hillary Clinton was allowed to delete and acid wash 33,000 E-mails AFTER they were subpoenaed by Congress. Absolutely nothing has happened to hold her accountable. She even took antique furniture, and other items from the White House.

    On November 22, 2016:

    Trump team won’t pursue charges against Hillary Clinton

    Mr Trump had threatened during his campaign to “jail” Mrs Clinton, and at rallies his supporters often chanted: “Lock her up!”

    Senior Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway told MSNBC that “when the president-elect… tells you before he’s even inaugurated he doesn’t wish to pursue these charges, it sends a very strong message – tone and content”.

    “And I think Hillary Clinton still has to face the fact that a majority of Americans don’t find her to be honest or trustworthy, but if Donald Trump can help her heal, then perhaps that’s a good thing,” she added.

    And this gem:

    “I stood up to America’s bureaucratic corruption, I restored power to the people, and truly delivered for our Country, like we have never seen before. The establishment hated it.

    Hey, dipwiddle! The Presidency’s purpose is to run The Establishment!

    nk (8085fc)

  11. Well, they are certainly drawing the lines and showing they don’t give a fig what much – if not most – of the country believes.

    I don’t want the Justice Dept. to care what the country believes. This is an open investigation into a former president. A very serious matter, not a voter issue. That you think it should matter that some voters believe differently matters reveals your partisanship.

    Ironically, the FBI lead that signed off on the warrant was a Trump appointee and Republican.

    Dana (1225fc)

  12. Well, Florida’s DeSantis was smoked out; tweeted the expected ‘outrage’ — and support for Trump. Didn’t take him long.

    DCSCA (68b0f4)

  13. @12. Indeed. As if “what much – if not most – of the country believes” is the constitutional standard for the validity of searches and seizures.

    Also, whatever it is Haiku thinks “much – if not most – of the country believes,” I’ll go out on a limb and say: Much? Probably. Most? Lol.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  14. @12. It’s about so called, “classified documents,” Dana. Totally understand your POV but the timing was poor and the motivations poorly veiled. Ever see ‘Death Wish’ and how the NYPD tried to scare off Paul Kersey?

    ____

    The FBI is corrupted; the DOJ as well– the SCOTUS, too… destroy institutions from within— Vlad and Xi have got to be beaming.

    DCSCA (68b0f4)

  15. Yes, Mr. Trump, that is what happens in a search warrant. Law enforcement shows up by surprise and then searches your stuff, including your safe.

    Nic (896fdf)

  16. We know, with more than 99 percent probability, that Trump broke the law by taking some secret papers with him when he left the White House. We know, with almost as high a probability, that Trump broke the law by dumping government documents down the toilet.

    Most likely the National Archivist made a list of documents that Trump had — and should have returned before leaving the White House. But didn’t.

    If the loser took some by mistake, he has had more than a year to correct those mistakes.

    So it is hard to see what else the Justice Department could do, other than raid his home.

    Now, if, like some (including Trump), you believe in “King” Donald’s divine right to ignore the laws, you will object to this raid. But, if you believe, unlike “King” Donald, that no one is above the law, you won’t.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  17. Yes! It’s not what’s in Trump’s plaint that is significant. It is what is not in it. What the FBI took with them when they left. If nothing, why didn’t he say so?

    nk (084881)

  18. Trump — “Such an assault could only take place in broken, Third-World Countries.”

    Finally, Trump admits the truth about January 6th.

    norcal (da5491)

  19. It’s roll call time for the Trumphumpers. So far I’ve seen Kevin McCarthy and Kristi Noem come out against the execution of this search warrant.

    Who else? I’m going to make a list and check it twice. It’ll come in handy when it comes time to vote.

    norcal (da5491)

  20. This is what fascism looks like.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  21. mishandling documents sounds “extremely careless”

    but “no serious prosecutor would bring such a case”

    anyway, that’s what legal experts have said

    JF (a6d404)

  22. I like Presidents who defeat fascism.

    nk (335860)

  23. I like Presidents who defeat fascism.

    nk (335860) — 8/8/2022 @ 7:24 pm

    I like Presidents who don’t lose to a doddering old fool in a basement.

    norcal (da5491)

  24. @21. This is what fascism looks like.

    When it’s scared.

    “Your papers are not in order Herr Trump. Come mit us!”

    This is only going to rally angered populists to go after all the establishment Royalists in both parties.

    DCSCA (b7c4a9)

  25. sandy berger’s home wasn’t raided, and he copped to a misdemeanor

    cuz democrats get the professional courtesy discount

    JF (a6d404)

  26. If there is any institution that stands for “the rule of law,” it is the FBI, surely.

    mikeybates (72c38f)

  27. How sensitive are some of the documents already recovered from Mar-a-Swampo? This sensitive:

    Some of the presidential records recovered from former president Donald Trump’s residence at Mar-a-Lago are so sensitive they may not be able to be described in forthcoming inventory reports in an unclassified way, two people familiar with the matter said Friday.

    It is hard to imagine what they might be. And I have had some experience, though not recently, working with Confidential and Secret documents.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  28. @27 The FBI has its share of malfeasance, as does any large organization. That doesn’t mean today’s raid is wrong.

    norcal (da5491)

  29. Jim Miller (406a93) — 8/8/2022 @ 7:40 pm

    Covert operations in friendly countries? Of the kind Cruz, Rand, and Lee certified as authentic in public Senate hearings when Edward Snowden took them to Putin?

    nk (335860)

  30. The Democrats have reset the standards. And now, when the next Republican Administration takes office, people like Joe Biden — if he’s still alive — Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, and all of the others on the left will find themselves investigated, and if possible, raided, indicted, and convicted.

    Of course, the left have been coming after our 45th President ever since he was elected; if there was any incriminating evidence at Mar-a-Lago, it should have been destroyed long ago. And if this raid turns up nothing, the Democrats will simply claim that the stuff was there, but was destroyed.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (df1035)

  31. mishandling documents sounds “extremely careless”

    but “no serious prosecutor would bring such a case”

    anyway, that’s what legal experts have said

    JF (a6d404) — 8/8/2022 @ 7:20 pm

    So you think Hillary shouldn’t have been prosecuted? Or maybe you think she should have been and so should Donald. Either way, surely your point in bringing up Hillary was that whatever the prosecutorial decisions, they should be consistent. Right?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  32. , surely your point in bringing up Hillary was that whatever the prosecutorial decisions, they should be consistent. Right?
    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:02 pm

    This is exactly right. Should be. Right?

    felipe (484255)

  33. And a quick search showed me that there are already bumper stickers and T-shirts with “Jail to the Chief” on them.

    Already? Those suckers have been around for at least the last 30 years. Somewhere in my junk piles I might have a vintage 1998 “Jail to the Chief” bumper sticker featuring Bill Clinton. I would bet the farm that Trump “Jail to the Chief” paraphernalia has been available since at least November 2016.

    JVW (020d31)

  34. They found something, or Trump would have already said they found nothing, somewhere in all that sniveling blather. And the “what about Hillary?” is practically a confession.

    nk (0945ab)

  35. the left have been coming after our 45th President ever since he was elected

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (df1035) — 8/8/2022 @ 7:59 pm

    Yes, and the right goes after lefty Presidents.

    Sometimes it’s more deserved than others. Trump gave the left all the ammo it needed, and more.

    norcal (da5491)

  36. All of this investigation into Donald Trump is no doubt keeping the FBI from pursuing the 45 documented cases of vandalism at crisis pregnancy centers in the wake of the Dobbs ruling, since as of today there have been exactly zero arrests made in any of them. Certainly it can’t be a case of complete indifference on the part of the bureau and the Biden Justice Department, can it?

    JVW (020d31)

  37. #30 nk – Could be. And, to extend your point a little further, we could have been doing some of such operations with the tacit consent of the foreign intelligence agencies. I have long suspected that we and the British occasionally made trades; we did some spy work in Britain that their intelligence agencies couldn’t do legally, and they did the same for us, here.

    (One of the unfortunate facts about our campaigns against various terrorist organizations is that they are almost wholly dependent on intelligence operations. If we know what the terrorists are planning, we can usually kill or capture them — or have allies do that.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  38. As for “if there was any incriminating evidence at Mar-a-Lago, it should have been destroyed long ago”, can you name one thing that Trump has not done half-assed?

    Even the pettiest Third World tinpot knows that when you’re toppled from power you flee the country to a place without extradition with as much of the national treasury you can grab on your way out. You don’t loll around in your dacha while plotting your return.

    nk (0945ab)

  39. #37 JVW – Are those state crimes, or federal crimes?

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  40. Are those state crimes, or federal crimes?

    According to this article, the bureau is looking into them as they might be considered acts of domestic terrorism. As pointed out in my original link, the FBI sure is quick to stick their nose into vandalism at Planned Parenthood offices using the same reasoning.

    JVW (020d31)

  41. Oh, yeah, and it wouldn’t be a Trump statement without an obvious lie, “this unannounced raid on my home”. Are we expected to believe that the FBI did not coordinate with his Secret Service detail? Or that we wouldn’t know that ex-Presidents have a Secret Service detail?

    nk (0945ab)

  42. Are those state crimes, or federal crimes?
    Jim Miller (406a93) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:32 pm

    LOL

    Are you referring to the DOJ/FBI that injected themselves into school board meetings?

    JF (a6d404)

  43. can you name one thing that Trump has not done half-assed?

    nk (0945ab) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:30 pm

    Amassed a cult?

    norcal (da5491)

  44. Are you referring to the DOJ/FBI that injected themselves into school board meetings?

    JF (a6d404) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:41 pm

    Do you have any examples of this actually happening?

    norcal (da5491)

  45. @31@libertarianDana I don’t understand how that’s any different from what the Rs have been saying for years now? You can’t threaten someone with something they already know you are going to do.

    Nic (896fdf)

  46. @39

    Too funny, nk.

    norcal (da5491)

  47. For sake of consistency, Trump lawyers should have been given the opportunity to say the documents were reviewed and found to have been about his hot yoga classes. Trump shoud have asked “where’s my David Kendall” or maybe he should have taken a cue from Ozark and bought himself a funeral home with a crematorium that could handle a water buffalo.
    Personally, I think DOJ Goal #1 is really to find dirt to leak out on him if he decides do run in 2024. They won’t charge him, because if it fizzles before 2024, he gets exponentially stronger.

    My thoughts on this quote here: ““if there was any incriminating evidence at Mar-a-Lago, it should have been destroyed long ago”. Should being the operative word, but after all these years of watching “7 level chess” from Trump, he doesn’t seem the type to pull of a clean up like that, but am willing to learn.

    steveg (6ccc00)

  48. Do you have any examples of this actually happening?
    norcal (da5491) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:46 pm

    you don’t believe Garland?

    JF (a6d404)

  49. I’ve read a bunch of angry MAGA tweets, and what’s bizarre is that so many people practically come right out and say that their measure of an official’s integrity is whether that person is “loyal” to Trump or “betrays” him. It’s as if they simply absorbed the blatantly self-centered view of right and wrong that Trump manifests and made it the heart of their own moral code.

    Like Trump himself, they seem unable to comprehend that there could ever been any legitimate reason to hold Trump accountable under the law.

    It’s gobsmacking that anyone could observe & listen to Trump for very long and think he’s such a beacon of honesty and righteousness that whatever goes against him is “corrupt” by definition. But that’s the mindset of the GOP base and a good many conservative thought-leaders.

    Radegunda (c75177)

  50. you don’t believe Garland?

    JF (a6d404) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:19 pm

    Oh, I know about the memo. It was an overreach.

    Was any action ever taken?

    norcal (da5491)

  51. Like Trump said

    “We have to leave our police alone. Every time they do something, they’re afraid they’re going to be destroyed and that their pensions are going to be taken away,” Mr. Trump said. “Let them do their job. Give them back the respect that they deserve.”

    No one is above the law.
    I doubt the DOJ would apply for a warrant and that a judge would sign such a warrant without good evidence.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  52. norcal (da5491) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:28 pm

    i don’t know

    who said action was taken?

    JF (a6d404)

  53. I doubt the DOJ would apply for a warrant and that a judge would sign such a warrant without good evidence.
    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:32 pm

    let’s ask Carter Page

    JF (a6d404)

  54. BTW, a cynic would say that the prosecution and conviction of Trump taking classified information to MAL is a Democrat plot to preempt Trump from running, considering 18 USC 2071.

    Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.

    Emphasis mine. All I can say is that the DOJ better have the goods.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  55. It’s gobsmacking that anyone could observe & listen to Trump for very long and think he’s such a beacon of honesty and righteousness that whatever goes against him is “corrupt” by definition.

    Radegunda (c75177) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:23 pm

    It is astounding.

    Here is how he does it. Trump takes complicated issues, and makes simplistic and outrageous statements about them. (A comic-book portrayal of the issues, if you will.) People who are angry about our state of affairs, but have an insufficient understanding of them, thrill to hear Trump’s rhetoric.

    It appeals to them on an emotional level. Because of this, they then fall in love with Trump, and see him as a hero.

    Once people fall in love with a politician, they’ll turn a blind eye to so many things.

    As I’ve said before, it’s like a guy who falls in love with a girl who is all kinds of wrong for him. Others can see it, but he won’t countenance them speaking anything critical of her. It is only after much anguish that he sees her for who she really is.

    Never, ever, fall in love with a politician.

    norcal (da5491)

  56. let’s ask Carter Page

    Not necessary. There’s a difference between an ex-president and a schlub who’s had past associations with Russian spies. If they haven’t learned the lesson from that FISA warrant application, then they’re not even qualified for law enforcement employment in Uvalde.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  57. who said action was taken?

    JF (a6d404) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:33 pm

    I thought you did, but I now see that you were just referring to the memo, and were not stating that any actions resulted from the memo.

    norcal (da5491)

  58. There’s a difference between an ex-president and a schlub who’s had past associations with Russian spies.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:54 pm

    Good point

    norcal (da5491)

  59. @55. “Democrats,” hell. Both party Establishment Royalists are out to preserve their swamp power. They’re terrified of a non-politician upsetting the applecart. This will backfire and fuel the very populism they fear beyond their ugliest nightmares.

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (485a5a)

  60. This is only going to pour fuel on the simmering populist movement in Trump’s favor and bring the kettle to a boil again as the midterms approach.

    DCSCA is right here, although not quite they way he means it. Trump will, of course, MAKE this about him and how this populist movement is being crushed by the Illuminati or whatever. And this plays into his hands, but whatever is done regarding Trump’s criminal behavior will be couched in those terms.

    What worries me is that Trump is willing to start a civil war over his treatment. Because the insurrection next time will be horrific, and he is doing all he can to foment it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  61. England had this kind of problem with Napoleon. Perhaps St Helena is available.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  62. @61. Trump won’t make the wave; he’ll ride the wave, waving the banner. Populism couldn’t have asked for a more foolish move by the powers that be. The civil war has already started, Kevin. The Royalists want to recruit 87,000 troops into the IRS to attack Aunt Emma and confiscate her bake sale money.

    DCSCA (a292b4)

  63. America, Nancy wants to audit you– to pay for her kid flying along with her to Asia.

    DCSCA (a292b4)

  64. You seem obsessed with the 87,000 IRS agents, DCSCA. Do you have something against people paying the taxes they legally owe?

    norcal (da5491)

  65. As I’ve said before, it’s like a guy who falls in love with a girl who is all kinds of wrong for him. Others can see it, but he won’t countenance them speaking anything critical of her. It is only after much anguish that he sees her for who she really is.

    It’s more like a guy who falls in love with a girl who might not be right for him, but at least makes him feel like he matters, after the guy’s previous girlfriend made all kinds of promises but failed to deliver time after time after time after time, and he finally had to break up with her.

    Yeah, it’s based on emotion. But if people don’t feel that those running the party they vote for are actually taking them seriously, they’ll dump the old flame and find someone new to hook up with, even if the new gal is nothing but trouble. Instead of blaming the guy for dumping her, the ex-girlfriend should be looking in the mirror and blaming herself for taking the relationship for granted.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  66. Sawyer Hackett

    For the Fox News viewers, the Director of the FBI—who approved the raid on Trump’s home—was appointed by him five years ago this week.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  67. @65. The IRS already have 77,000, Paul. It isdn’t just that. You just don’t get what’s going on before your eyes. This isn’t a D or R thing; it’s a Royalists versus Populist thing. The Establishment is terrified; they believe you work for them– and they’re going to remind you that you do. Sieg Heil!

    DCSCA (a292b4)

  68. In DC’s populist world, Trump is above the law.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  69. Recession isn’t recession; inflation is transitory; Kabul won’t be Saigon; Putin won’t invade because ‘I’ve gone toe to toe with him’… freebees for corrupt Ukraine, shakedown Aunt Edna for her yard sale money to pay for it… because the Royalists say so.

    DCSCA (a292b4)

  70. @67. Pfft. Raiding the home of a former POTUS and possible candidate for POTUS was approved by the AG Garland… not the FBI’s ‘little Donald Segretti.’

    DCSCA (a292b4)

  71. the guy’s previous girlfriend made all kinds of promises but failed to deliver time after time after time after time, and he finally had to break up with her

    Any politician who tells it like it is won’t get elected. Therefore, the people get lied to. Therefore, the people get disappointed. And on and on.

    Trump is no exception. He told people he would balance the budget, have Mexico pay for the wall, replace Obamacare with something great, etc. The people were clearly lied to, but his followers don’t see it because he’s created a cult.

    They don’t see the gaslighting, scapegoating, deflection, failed promises, and false claims to victimhood.

    The problem is the people. They don’t want to hear the truth.

    norcal (da5491)

  72. Finally, agreement with the lady…

    “When you’re attacking FBI agents because you’re under criminal investigation, you’re losing”
    –Sarah Huckabee Sanders, 11/3/2016

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  73. You seem obsessed with the 87,000 IRS agents

    It seems a lot. If they add this number to the current workforce, it will rival the US presence in Iraq after the surge. If 150,000 IRS agents can audit a household in a day, they could audit 30 million households a year. That’s about half the households paying a noticeable amount of tax. Sure, it probably takes more than a day, and not all those hires are actual agents. But auditing even 3 million households a year would be a big increase historically.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  74. The end game:

    Trump’s lawyers are presented with the evidence and told that Trump will die in jail if convicted; he will get all the maximums and spend it in a Supermax.

    BUT, today, only, he can get out scott free. He just has to accept the following conditions, bow out of politics and sign this here NDA. Failure to abide by the conditions or NDA will result in his forfeiture of $50 billion dollars.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  75. They will assassinate Trump soon. Then it will be me. Not only will my American Flags come down, but the poles they fly from as well.
    Stay the fluck off my property, pigs.

    mg (8cbc69)

  76. yes, and the right goes after lefty Presidents.

    Sometimes it’s more deserved than others. Trump gave the left all the ammo it needed, and more.

    norcal (da5491) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:21 pm

    Pleasse tell us what no one knows – please elaborate

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  77. Jackboots are very real, and they are back in action wearing FBI logos on their shirts.

    mg (8cbc69)

  78. Tom W • 9 hours ago
    Remember when the DOJ and FBI raided Hillary Clinton’s Chappaqua home because she had classified material on a server in her bathroom?

    Yeah, me neither.

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  79. The DOJ and FBI now have the ability to monitor every single aspect of every life that might seek to challenge or destroy the corrupt system. In essence, Skynet -the ultimate end game of political surveillance and targeting outlined by Edward Snowden- has been activated.

    mg (8cbc69)

  80. From Ammo Girl – a conservative blogger

    Ammo G. Copa • 9 hours ago
    Ah yes, the Democrats are soooo clever that they are trying to make President Trump a martyr so that he will for sure run again and then he will be beat by whatever Democrat creep they field against him! Are you kidding me?? Trump has just run the table, he’s something like 174-10 (give or take) in his endorsements, he defeated (thank God!) the entire old corrupt McCain establishment here in Arizona and we have a chance to take back our state. The OTHER reason for this fascistic move is to say to us Deplorables: Look at what we just did to your billionaire hero. Can you imagine what we could do to a nobody like YOU??? AG

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  81. I’m waiting for another lecture from Andy McCarthy about how Trump was weaponizing the Department of Justice. Maybe he can have Bill Barr on to discuss it with him, then Barr can play out the show with his bagpipes in safari clothes.

    mg (8cbc69)

  82. I don’t see how this helps anybody.

    Do we really want the FBI investigating the president for taking home a copy of the budget of some 3 letter organization?
    Or a report on the mental status of some leader?
    Or the probability of error on some Russian ballistic missile?

    Do we really want to watch a trial and convict a President on these grounds? You almost have to take him to trial now.

    There will be screaming matches about processes.

    Meanwhile He will be campaigning about the unfairness of it all, while Biden will be pressured to step down. Trump will be egging him on. Calling him “Senile Joe”

    Yall want a Civil War?
    What do you think is going to happen in the scenario of him being called “Ineligible to be President” while he wins a republican nomination and a DC conviction.

    Joe (f8874c)

  83. Trump will be egging him on. Calling him “Senile Joe”

    He already tried that, and put it to rest himself in the first debate. He was the one who came out looking demented old loon while Biden looked elderly statesman.

    Covfefe can call Brandon senile all he wants, but what’s his excuse for being the weakest and least-accomplished President we’ve ever had? He talked about strong leaders who had control of their countries because for him it was only wishful daydreaming, while watching television, playing golf, and railing at rallies.

    Making Trump President of the United States was like making a ten-year old captain of an aircraft carrier. And like a ten-year old, he will never admit it.

    nk (287be4)

  84. but what’s his excuse for being the weakest and least-accomplished President we’ve ever had?

    Umm. no one thinks that

    Even the dems think he was a great president

    his table manners suck, he isnt a nice guy

    Bush was a nice guy, didnt get much done

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  85. Do you have any examples of this actually happening?

    norcal (da5491) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:46 pm

    You say that as if you wouldn’t immediately change your tune and start explaining how it was necessary and just after being given examples.

    The point of all of that was to make a threat. The point of making a few high profile raids on one side of the political spectrum and giving the other a free pass is to send a message that the threat isn’t a bluff.

    frosty (b9d313)

  86. The FBI is run by a Republican, who donated money to Republican candidates. The judge who approved the warrant is reportedly a Trump appointee. There were no leaks ahead of the search. There was no media present during the search. The first reporting on this was from Trump, who hasn’t released a copy of the warrant yet.

    I’m very interested to learn more about this.

    That’s it. That’s my entire take. I’d like to know more.

    Time123 (548024)

  87. EPJW, technically Trump isn’t living at Mar a lago.
    He effectively does, but I’m told details like that matter.

    Time123 (548024)

  88. NorCal @72, Yup. Well said.

    Time123 (548024)

  89. You seem obsessed with the 87,000 IRS agents, DCSCA. Do you have something against people paying the taxes they legally owe?

    norcal (da5491) — 8/8/2022 @ 11:30 pm

    It’s sort of creepy watching you, and some others here, fall all over yourselves white-knighting the FBI and IRS, etc. Jackboot authoritarians seem to be popular.

    There shouldn’t be an assumption that whatever the FBI is doing that is to secret to explain to the public is clearly on the up and up and, yes, I have something against people being shaken down by the IRS.

    frosty (b9d313)

  90. Deadpan is the most difficulty of the comedy acts, EPWJ. In my view, it only works in comedy venues where the audience is expecting it. Don’t give up your day job just yet.

    nk (5a7d5f)

  91. Who are the 87,000 new IRS agents going to audit? Why did Rush Limbaugh get audited every single year? Because he was wealthy? Did wealthy Democrats get audited every single year, too?

    mikeybates (6ab950)

  92. Re: 84

    I don’t think its wrong to note that it looks like President Biden is weaker than he was 2 years ago. His inability to hold long press conferences shows that.
    President Trump certainly has had some recent unflattering photos taken as well.

    If Trump were to run, Biden would almost have to as well, for ego sake. It would be the biggest crap show in history.

    Joe (f8874c)

  93. Rush Limbaugh got audited by New York State (until he sold his place in New York) because New York State wanted him to prove that he had truly moved out of the state. He could not spend more than 183 days a year (with fractions of a day counting as a full day0 without paying more taxes.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  94. @1

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    Dana (1225fc) — 8/8/2022 @ 5:18 pm

    @Dana, @Patterico, @Radegunda, @Time123, @nk and any posters who are, or labeled by others as “NeverTrumpers”.

    Please bear with me as I’m doing this in a stream of conscious blurb…

    If the FBI doesn’t have the goods, and if this becomes some dispute between the Trump Administration and the National Archive… you all should be absolutely LIVID at this.

    I’m a voter who doesn’t want Trump to run, who vastly prefers that Trump goes quietly into the night and let a much younger GOPer to take the mantle. (ie, Youngkin, Haley, DeSantis).

    This. THIS has the possibility of energizing the GOP voters, even those who like me, would rather some non-Trump to run, would not only CRAWL OVER BROKEN GLASS to vote down ticket for the not-Democrat, but to even vigorously vote FOR Trump instead of defensively voting for him as a not-Democrat protest.

    It has the same vibe as the old “Fake News™” that media and never-Trumpers gave legs for Trump to take advantage of… except that this, THIS? Will take that vibe and turn it to eleven when Trump promises to “drain the swamp” by promising to defund the current iteration of the FBI and government bureaucrats (aka, The Deepstate).

    To launch a raid like this against a former President should be an absolute last resort without even a hint of possible politicization or unequal application of the law.

    I want you to consider the possible politicization ramifications of this, and how destructive this will be in our political sphere.

    This bell cannot be unrung and I’d argue that if the FBI doesn’t have the deets, this would have done as much, if not more, damage than what transpired on J6.

    whembly (b770f8)

  95. @55

    BTW, a cynic would say that the prosecution and conviction of Trump taking classified information to MAL is a Democrat plot to preempt Trump from running, considering 18 USC 2071.

    Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.

    Emphasis mine. All I can say is that the DOJ better have the goods.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:41 pm

    Two things:
    1) This statute doesn’t override the US Constitution’s Presidential qualifications, so it cannot be used on the Office of the Presidency.

    2) Even if you could, I’m pretty sure it’s impossible to convict a former President for that under the statute if he took those documents whilst he was still President.

    People forget… POTUS is the ultimate declassification authority.

    Now, its a different question if Trump, somehow got classified documents AFTER Biden’s inauguration. But I’d be extremely dubious of that.

    whembly (b770f8)

  96. Here’s what initially popped in my heard when I heard this:
    AG Merrick Garland approved an FBI raid on the former president who personally revoked his nomination for the Supreme Court when he won the presidency.

    Just one of those thoughts…

    Are we sure, everything is on the up and up?

    whembly (b770f8)

  97. @ 95.

    Thank you.
    Better than what i have tried to say.

    Joe (f8874c)

  98. whembly, you betcha, I agree with you, the DOJ/FBI better be right!

    nk (6eb4e4)

  99. I doubt the DOJ would apply for a warrant and that a judge would sign such a warrant without good evidence.
    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:32 pm

    Really?. How trusting. Just ask the duped FISC judge(s), if a such a thing happened. Remember how “DOJ,” “warrant,” “judge,” and -ahem- “good evidence” were touted as (and this is my own droll characterization) “solid police work?”

    It is easy to remember things like this when one does not take sides. I’m not a trumper or a never-trumper – I’m just sick and tired of the tribalism and selective “law enforcement” happening all around us.

    Speaking of selective law enforcement, I approve of the Florida Governor’s decision to suspend the derelict Andrew Warren.

    felipe (484255)

  100. Never, ever, fall in love with a politician.
    norcal (da5491) — 8/8/2022 @ 9:48 pm

    Amen to that.

    felipe (484255)

  101. Yeah, better to go with flagons and apples.

    nk (6eb4e4)

  102. Even the dems think he was a great president

    Which ones, EP? Because I haven’t heard a single Dem say that.

    This statute doesn’t override the US Constitution’s Presidential qualifications, so it cannot be used on the Office of the Presidency.

    You’re right, whembly. I was confusing that with conviction by the Senate. Regarding your 2nd point, we won’t really know until we see the warrant or the warrant application. Also, we still don’t know the judge who signed the warrant, but Trump does

    “Donald Trump, you have a copy of the warrant. It explains what they were looking for, what statutes they think were violated, what judge signed off on that…If you believe this is such an abuse, release the warrant and let us decide for ourselves.”

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  103. All I want him to do is say straight out: “They found nothing!”

    nk (6eb4e4)

  104. Trump better get used to this-it won’t be the last time.

    At least it didn’t end like most police raids these days-going In with guns blazing, killing innocent people, usually at the wrong address.

    Rip Murdock (859cc2)

  105. @103

    Also, we still don’t know the judge who signed the warrant, but Trump does…

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 7:23 am

    …and here I am that things can’t get any worst.

    The GOP judge who signed it? Judge Bruce Reinhart.

    https://twitter.com/ComfortablySmug/status/1556987024485355520

    Holy. Crap!

    whembly (b770f8)

  106. @106 clarifying…

    Judge Reinhart wasn’t nominated by Trump. His position is selected by a majority of the judges in that district.

    So, arguments that “this is a GOP judge”, there can’t possibly be a partisan flavor here as the evidence must be so overwhelming! Is weak tea.

    whembly (b770f8)

  107. It appears the DOJ may be operating well outside its charter and attacking Dementia Joe Biden’s political opponents a few months before an historic election which will see Democrat asses – all across the USA – removed from office.

    Colonel Haiku (82e257)

  108. Reinhart Is a magistrate judge, not an Article III judge, which approves anything put in front of them.

    Rip Murdock (859cc2)

  109. whembly (b770f8) — 8/9/2022 @ 7:31 am

    That twist, if true, is worthy of M. Night Shyamalan.

    felipe (484255)

  110. Really?. How trusting…

    How’s that, felipe. If the DOJ doesn’t have a solid case with solid evidence, they’re taking a huge risk on multiple levels, starting with their own integrity and the blowback they’d face if their efforts turned out to be a lark.
    Also, Biden appointed the DOJ chief who had to have green-lighted the warrant, so there would be obvious political blowback on multiple fronts, starting with accusations that Biden is politicizing federal law enforcement.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  111. Whembly, I agree that if this search was politically motivated, based on weak probable cause, in pursuit of a minor procedural crime that’s typically not prosecuted it would be extremely bad.

    I’m not too worried about motivating the GOP base. Your dislike or Trump is the exception, as is your nuanced take and attention to factual details. I’m confident that if evidence comes out showing this search to be justified that you’ll be skeptical, dislike it, but base your position on the facts.

    Given the number of people still claiming the 2020 election was determined based on fraud (and how that seems to be a winning stance in GOP primaries) I think there’s limited value in worrying about the motivation of the GOP base.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  112. Chad Prather
    @WatchChad

    “Trump 2024. It’s time to shove MAGA so far up your ass that you see orange for the rest of your miserable pronoun confused lives”

    Colonel Haiku (82e257)

  113. Time123 (548024) — 8/9/2022 @ 6:16 am

    I love how the FBI goes from being an objective law enforcement agency to “run by a R” as needed. Same with judges.

    Yea, Wray is on the up and up. He’s a fine upstanding R. He’s also got a plane to catch and it’s real important so we’ve got to rap up this committee hearing.

    frosty (a68ff3)

  114. nk (6eb4e4) — 8/9/2022 @ 7:21 am

    The vessel with the pestle
    has the pellet with the poison
    The flagon with the dragon
    has the brew that is true. – The Court Jester

    felipe (484255)

  115. @106, that’s different then what was reported previously, but I’m going to assume it’s correct and withdraw that from my earlier statement.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  116. @112 Here’s the part where I’m really upset, and I’m really trying to hold off my ire until we know more.

    The MAGA voters isn’t enough to push Trump across the finish line. He needs the regular GOP voters, who hates his personality, as well.

    He needs the GOP voters who’ll vote for him, in order to NOT vote for Democrats. Literally the voters he believes a Democrat is worst than anything Trump will do.

    Prior to this, Trump was waning and there were ‘off ramps’ developing where Trump could step aside and still be a kingmaker.

    Now? This?

    I fear Trump is feeling like he HAS to run, because his ego is going to demand retribution against his opponents… and much of his voters is going to cheer him on this.

    Furthermore, wasn’t the first impeachment based on the idea that Trump want an investigation opened on his likely opponent??? How does the impeachment advocates square this now without looking like a political hack?

    Again, the FBI/DOJ must have something good (and more than just TS/SAP classification disputes).

    Otherwise, I don’t know how we can move forward and put the genie back in the bottle. These calvinism is going to be de jour from here on out.

    whembly (b770f8)

  117. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 7:43 am

    I don’t see any actual risk, as demonstrated by recent history of DOJ actions and the realized consequences of those actions. I agree that there is an abstract risk, based on an idealistic concept of justice – of which I have been well disabused.

    Having said that, I appreciate your comment, and it speaks well of you. Idealism suits you.

    felipe (484255)

  118. Are we in computer simulation?
    https://twitter.com/andrewcuomo/status/1556990308424028163

    @andrewcuomo
    DOJ must immediately explain the reason for its raid & it must be more than a search for inconsequential archives or it will be viewed as a political tactic and undermine any future credible investigation & legitimacy of January 6 investigations.
    8:06 AM · Aug 9, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

    whembly (b770f8)

  119. @111 Not really. Because there’s always enough people who talk tough on accountability and don’t deliver that this is never a problem. This is basically Graham’s consistent routine. Gowdy did the same. It’s a common R tactic.

    There are already accusations that the DOJ has been politicized. Same with the IRS. This isn’t new. There is never any political blowback.

    There are simply more statements that this can’t be political because there’d be blowback, etc.

    frosty (a68ff3)

  120. The Granny Killer got hacked!

    Colonel Haiku (82e257)

  121. @114, You have some cool conspiracy theories. Let me know when you find some evidence this is a politically motivated investigation.

    I think the fact that Wray (and other people involved) are members of the Republican Party makes that less likely but YMMV.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  122. What I’ve seen of MAGA in the last two elections, not to mention January 6, reminds me of the kamikaze pilot who flew 27 missions.

    nk (e17a67)

  123. The Granny Killer got hacked!
    Colonel Haiku (82e257) — 8/9/2022 @ 8:02 am

    HA! If this ploy blows up in Cuomo’s face, then yeah, “I was haxxed!” Otherwise, if it gets any traction, then it may serve as a way to rehabilitate his image in the minds of any unfortunately gullible and possibly useful idiot.

    “I am still relevant!” – A. Cuomo

    felipe (484255)

  124. nk (e17a67) — 8/9/2022 @ 8:06 am

    HA! Now that, right there, is funny! Bravo!

    felipe (484255)

  125. felipe (484255) — 8/9/2022 @ 7:47 am

    Subtle, felipe, very subtle! And, unfortunately, spot on.

    nk (e17a67)

  126. We cross-posted compliments, felipe. Mine was for your riposte to my Solomon reference with one to Danny Kaye.

    nk (e17a67)

  127. I agree that there is an abstract risk, based on an idealistic concept of justice – of which I have been well disabused.

    I don’t see that at all, felipe, and it has nothing to do with “idealism” but with practical politics.
    The Dems aren’t political neophytes. This is an unprecedented action, to rustle through the domicile of an ex-president by court order.
    They have to know that if their case doesn’t measure up, will only give Trump the ammunition he needs to wail and caterwaul about the Deep State Elite out to get him.
    Trump made a lot of political mileage out a Mueller investigation that actually did prove obstruction of justice and that Putin did mount a “sweeping and systematic” cyber-propaganda attack on America. How much more mileage he would get in this situation if the evidence doesn’t measure up.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  128. > Furthermore, wasn’t the first impeachment based on the idea that Trump want an investigation opened on his likely opponent??? How does the impeachment advocates square this now without looking like a political hack?

    (a) the first impeachment was based upon the idea that Trump used the power of the United States government to pressure a foreign government into investigating a political opponent’s family — basically that he was using state power to rope a foreign country into meddling in our internal politics. That’s a very different situation.

    (b) for me it depends on what was in the warrant application and whether there is actually reasonable grounds to suspect that this raid would retrieve evidence of criminal activity.

    It *cannot* be the rule that politicians above a certain grade are simply immune to investigation and prosecution if they break the law — that would be an open invitation to mafiosos and other ne’er-do-wells to seek political office in order to render themselves immune to prosecution, and it would tremendously reduce the quality of governance.

    aphrael (954d17)

  129. Furthermore, wasn’t the first impeachment based on the idea that Trump want an investigation opened on his likely opponent??? How does the impeachment advocates square this now without looking like a political hack?

    More accurate to say it was based on a lot of very credible evidence that Trump withheld military aid to pressure Ukraine into announcing a baseless investigation of a political opponent that Trump thought would benefit him politically.

    If there’s similar evidence here we should treat them the same, but right now this even looks very different from what Trump did WRT Ukraine.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  130. @130 Aphrael, Wish I’d seen your comment. You said it better then I did.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  131. Andrew Cuomo knows what it’s like to be a New York politician under criminal investigation.

    nk (e441a4)

  132. I don’t see that at all, felipe,

    I know and am not troubled by it. We can see differently and still have a common purpose.

    felipe (484255)

  133. @130

    It *cannot* be the rule that politicians above a certain grade are simply immune to investigation and prosecution if they break the law — that would be an open invitation to mafiosos and other ne’er-do-wells to seek political office in order to render themselves immune to prosecution, and it would tremendously reduce the quality of governance.

    aphrael (954d17) — 8/9/2022 @ 8:25 am

    Then why ignore the numerous criminal elements of the Biden families, particularly with the Burisma ordeal?

    I mean, the defense against an investigation of the Bidens was simply Biden was the prospective candidate in ’20.

    @131 Time123 (b64e57) — 8/9/2022 @ 8:28 am
    Except, there were/are CLEARLY credible evidences of crimes by the Bidens.

    If you’re going to sit there and say there’s clear credible evidence that Trump only did this for political purpose and ignore the Biden’s alleged crimes. I don’t think we’ll ever see eye-to-eye.

    Above all, the issue isn’t just the alleged crimes of both sides – it’s the disparate treatment based on which political party.

    whembly (b770f8)

  134. @130 That’s what I thought about HRC keeping classified information at home. That’s what I thought about the SS tracking down the gun Hunter lost not to mention his laptop.

    It turns out it *can* be the rule that certain politicians are not only immune but protected if they break the law. It also turns out this complaint only goes one way.

    frosty (d2f1f6)

  135. nk (0945ab) — 8/8/2022 @ 8:38 pm

    this unannounced raid on my home”. Are we expected to believe that the FBI did not coordinate with his Secret Service detail? Or that we wouldn’t know that ex-Presidents have a Secret Service detail?

    Mar-a-Lago is closed during approximately half of the year. The only people there were some special friends of Trump, and staff. Trump claims they were taken by surprise and scared. Trump himself was at Trump Tower (where he almost hadn’t gone while he was president)

    Thee raid took place in the morning and lasted till the evening. Nobody in the news media knew until Trump announced it, probably after it was over and they had left.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  136. Then why ignore the numerous criminal elements of the Biden families, particularly with the Burisma ordeal?

    What “Burisma ordeal”? Hunter took a sinecure, legally.
    What “criminal elements”?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  137. @138 Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 9:26 am
    Are you trolling me?

    Let me flip the question then: Would Hunter Biden likely be on the Burisma board had Biden never been made VP?

    Likewise, would Biden’s own brother had a company receiving international funding had Joe Biden was never made VP?

    whembly (b770f8)

  138. @139 Yes. The family members of senators also get these deals. You don’t think that money washes itself do you?

    frosty (17a504)

  139. O.o
    https://twitter.com/Mike_Pence/status/1557031914829135872
    Even Mike Pence is voicing concerns.

    whembly (b770f8)

  140. It’s speculation, but possible…

    Pure speculation:
    (1) Taking a run at a former President for classified document mishandling is extremely high risk, but super low payoff.

    (2) Taking a run at a former President for selling access to documents in a private office is extremely high risk, but very high payoff.

    (3) If this was just about returning TS or Codeword material to a proper secure location, then DJT’s counsel could easily facilitate that exchange with FBI Miami, all sins forgiven.

    (4) My sense is there’s something darker than 15 boxes, or AG Garland wouldn’t have moved.

    (5) It’s my years of DC suspicion speaking, but if this was: (i) idealogical, or (ii) functionally a cheap shot at a deeply sloppy former president, the op would have leaked.
    Someone would have killed it by going to WaPo or NYT & pushed it to a negotiation like in #3 above.

    (6) Merrick Garland bet his entire legacy on this decision.
    If he did it because Donald Trump has a dust-covered box filled with images of North Korean nuclear testing sites sitting undisturbed in a closet, then god help us all.

    Taking it a little further, and this is guesswork, the classified intel Trump is suspected of keeping at MAL is codeword level, only to be discussed in a SCIF. To me, that’s still not enough to go forward.
    My suspicion is that Trump not only illegally possessed codeword intel, but shared it with a foreign power, and not a “good” power like UK, more like KSA, or Russia, or NK, or the Xi regime. It was just a few months ago that the husband of Trump’s daughter inked a multi-billion dollar deal with the Saudis. Again, this is guesswork.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  141. #85 “Even the dems think he was a great president”

    Well, it is possible to find a few Democrats who approve of Trump:

    A major reason Trump’s ratings were historically low is because of the extreme polarization in his approval. In the Jan. 4-15 poll, 4% of Democrats, 30% of independents and 82% of Republicans approve of Trump’s performance.

    Throughout his presidency, an average of 7% of Democrats approved of the job Trump was doing, while 88% of Republicans did so. The 81-point average gap in Democratic-Republican ratings of Trump exceeds the prior record for party polarization, under Obama, by 11 points. George W. Bush’s ratings differed by 61 points on average between party groups, while all other presidents’ party gaps were 55 points or lower. No president before Ronald Reagan had as much as a 50-point gap in partisan approval ratings.

    Just as it is possible to find people who believe that we are ruled by alien lizard creatures, but both groups are small.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  142. Whembly, If the Trump administration had evidence of criminal wrongdoing by Biden the DOJ should have pursued that. The DOJ didn’t and the method Trump used looked nothing like a formal investigation that was based on facts.

    Let me rephrase, I don’t know that the DOJ did. I do know that they didn’t announce an investigation or appoint a special prosecutor for that.

    There is a prosecutor to investigate Hunter.
    They also appointed a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton.
    They also appointed a special prosecutor to investigate the start of the investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    At some point the lack indictments from these investigations starts to indicate a lack of evidence of criminal wrongdoing.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  143. @139, no way. It’s corrupt as heck and Biden’s family is trading on his hame to line their pockets from people willing pay a few 10’s of thousands on the chance it might buy them some goodwill. It’s corrupt and horrible and unfortunately legal.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  144. @139 The real beauty here is SS staying at a Trump hotel, or Trump owning a hotel in DC, was frequently cited as corrupt and grounds for impeachment. Family members working on the boards of or on behalf of companies in Ukraine or China is perfectly legal and you’re the political hack for even asking about it.

    frosty (be52ab)

  145. Whembly, think about it like this. Companies with business in front of the trump admin stayed at his Washington Hotel. There was no quid pro quo. It wasn’t illegal but it was corrupt and gross.

    Similar thing to Burisma hiring hunter for a no who job.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  146. Are you trolling me?

    No, whembly.
    Unless trading in on a family name (like what Ivanka with trademarking her name with the ChiComs) is a crime, I don’t know what “criminal elements” you’re talking about.
    Far as I can tell, Hunter’s crimes involve his “tax affairs”, which are under FBI investigation but we don’t know any specifics, and he lied about possessing a firearm. Regarding the “Burisma ordeal”, I’ve seen no illegalities, with Hunter or Joe.
    If Joe’s brother committed a crime (or Joe himself), what is it?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  147. @146, I just saw your comment. They’re both corrupt and both legal. No one seriously argued staying at the Trump hotel was ground for impeachment. That part you’re just making up.

    I do wish that congress would pass some anti-corruption laws under the emoluments clause to make that less corrupt int he future. We could at least cut down on the foreign money. But it doesn’t seem to be a priority for either party.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  148. Trump has the warrant and list of what was taken in his possession. If the details show this was an egregious abuse of power he should share them. He’s the one who announced the search of his golf club.

    Absent that the DOJ should make a Public statement focused on procedural checks that were in place to make sure this complied with our existing laws about unreasonable search and seizure.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  149. @144 At some point the lack of indictments starts to indicate a political bias.

    We had clear evidence of classified material mishandled with HRC. They chose not to go forward. This is not a theory. This is public information.

    We had clear problems with the russiagate investigation. We’re still playing games on this one because it’s become part of the religious dogma. This is also public information.

    The Hunter investigation is perfunctory. It serves the purpose of allowing people to make statements like you’re making here. While ignoring that US intel officials lied claiming it was Russian disinformation.

    At the same time, the open ended investigations of the other side serve to allow things like @142.

    It’s an easy game when you presume everything your side does is fine and everything the other side does isn’t.

    @145 a few 10’s of thousands? Where’d you get that number?

    frosty (be52ab)

  150. This. THIS has the possibility of energizing the GOP voters, even those who like me, would rather some non-Trump to run, would not only CRAWL OVER BROKEN GLASS to vote down ticket for the not-Democrat, but to even vigorously vote FOR Trump instead of defensively voting for him as a not-Democrat protest.

    Indeed. The problem remains though, that we are living in a time when it’s the far left and the far right that are consuming all the oxygen. They even talk of civil war, not understanding that everyone loses a civil war except the folks at the top of one side. I really don’t want to have to choose between who controls the army in a civil war (AOC or Trump?). Not that it matters as everyone loses and even the survivors have to live under an absolutist regime.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  151. @151. Wow, all that evidence and Trump’s DOJ didn’t prosecute. Maybe you should have chanted lock her up more times? Or is it like the great pumpkin and you’re Trump flags just weren’t sincere enough?

    Time123 (548024)

  152. whembly, you betcha, I agree with you, the DOJ/FBI better be right!

    Further, “mishandling classified documents” is generally not prosecuted against civilian authorities, or even others if there is no criminal intent. Then there is the “no reasonable prosecutor” standard of 2016.

    This had better be in furtherance of an insurrection conspiracy charge, or possibly tax evasion or bribe-taking. Something actively criminal. And please not some nebulous obstruction charge; it has to be something that even some of this supporters wouldn’t support, if true.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  153. All I want him to do is say straight out: “They found nothing!”

    Well, they probably hauled off a bunch of stuff, so that’s hard to say.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  154. The usual calm and reasoned reaction from MAGAWorld.

    And Trump’s day just gets worse.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  155. it has to be something that even some of this supporters wouldn’t support, if true.

    You mean like a transcript of him saying that he’s holding up military aid until they announce an investigation of his political opponent?

    Because we had that and it didn’t seem to move the needle very much.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  156. @149 No one seriously argued it? I guess you’re right for some definitions of seriously when you get to redefine it after the fact.

    @150 Yes. The DOJ should make a statement that they did everything correctly. That will clear up everything. Then we’d have that, Wray the Republican, and a judge appointed by Trump all telling us this is all legitimate and there’s no political motive in searching, right before the midterms, for documents Trump’s had since 2020.

    frosty (be52ab)

  157. I don’t think it will be persuasive to people like you. Nothing will be. Trying to persuade you or taking your concerns seriously is a pointless waste of time.

    But as I said previously I’d like to know more.

    Time123 (548024)

  158. Maybe open an IG investigation right now? Those are usually pretty informative.

    Time123 (548024)

  159. @156-

    DCSCA would be proud.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  160. My suspicion is that Trump not only illegally possessed codeword intel, but shared it with a foreign power, and not a “good” power like UK, more like KSA, or Russia, or NK, or the Xi regime. It was just a few months ago that the husband of Trump’s daughter inked a multi-billion dollar deal with the Saudis. Again, this is guesswork.

    Well, let’s say the absolute worst possible crime is true. That Trump took documents naming covert US assets in one or more hostile countries and sold them for money or favors. If proven and believed, this would decimate Trump’s support. But since it would largely be disbelieved by most of his supporters, even if “proven”, that “decimation” would be sadly only that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  161. DCSCA would be proud.

    What? FBI hauls a bunch of stuff from your home and you’d say “They found nothing?” They clearly found whatever they took. It might be meaningless, but it was not “nothing.”

    And besides, you wouldn’t take Trumps word anyway (and neither would I).

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  162. What I’ve seen of MAGA in the last two elections, not to mention January 6, reminds me of the kamikaze pilot who flew 27 missions.

    Or the fireman arrested for arson.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  163. @153 When you try the Trump’s DOJ shtick it just doesn’t work. Part of the grounding for the Mueller independence counsel investigation was the concern that Trump had any influence over DOJ investigations. It was never Trump’s DOJ and it’s not supposed to be any president’s.

    You should know that. Do you know that?

    Now, maybe you don’t know that and you believe the DOJ should belong to a POTUS. Is that what you’re arguing?

    A third option is that you only try this shtick when you’re now claiming that Trump should have exploited his DOJ when he had the chance even though you claimed the opposite at the time. Are you going this route?

    frosty (4b30f5)

  164. Lt General Hertling on codeword intel…

    Lots of discussion about the documents. @BrynnTannehill thread is conjecture, but if true (likely as this is the kind of classified documents high level officials receive) is incredibly dangerous. She says “SAP.” Those Special Access Programs are known by very few.

    Even saying the “code word” associated with them to others not “read in” on the program is a security violation punishable by prison. Given @JaxAlemany’s report that written lists compiled at the scene could not include some documents seems to indicate SAP.

    To read SAP documents requires a Top Secret Clearance, to be “read on” regarding the details of the program, and understanding the special rules of safeguarding the particulars. How do I know this? I’ve been “read on” to many, couldn’t talk about it to anyone outside a SCIF.

    And even today – 10 yrs after retiring – can’t mention even the code word. Yes, Presidents may declassify secret documents, but not without using processes to protect sources, methods, programs, etc. So, no, you can’t just “keep” classified documents when you leave…even POTUS.

    For anyone – especially any govt official – to claim this is “politicalization” or “targeting” someone…no, it’s a serious crime, and we expect DOJ & FBI to do exactly what they are doing to protect our secrets.

    I mentioned above the multi-billion dollar affiliation between KSA and Trump’s daughter’s husband, but Trump also has financial ties, specifically with the Wahhabi Golf Tour. They were willing to pay Tiger $700 to $800 million for showing up and hitting a few balls around, so how much are they paying Trump for hosting tourneys on–not one–but two of his courses. Also, was that the only transaction, or was there something more? Again, it’s guesswork and speculation.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  165. My sense is there’s something darker than 15 boxes, or AG Garland wouldn’t have moved.

    Absolutely. He was certainly aware that MAGA world would blow up in rage at the idea that their god-king should be accountable under the law just like anyone else. He must have anticipated that Trump and MAGA-land would spin it as yet another “vicious” “partisan attack” by the “corrupt” “deep state,” and leverage it as a campaign issue: “Patriots are under siege by the government! Patriots must rise up to Save America!” Garland had to know there was a distinct possibility of violence.
    Therefore, he and others saw a danger to the rule of law and/or national security so serious as to overshadow the risks associated with enraging a cult that has a significant militia element, as well as the craven support of a major political party.

    Radegunda (e30354)

  166. “If proven and believed, this would decimate Trump’s support. But since it would largely be disbelieved by most of his supporters, even if “proven”, that “decimation” would be sadly only that.”

    I’m no Trump fan, but he couldn’t have been that stupid, could he? Though I agree that it had to be more than just mishandling of classified info

    But I would still keep the Seppuku swords handy…just in case

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  167. “Tarnation! A buncha pontificatin’ pussies!”

    —- Yosemite Sam

    Colonel Haiku (47ee75)

  168. DCSCA would be proud.

    What?……

    For the calls for civil war. Read the links.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  169. Proud? Golly, Rip. Don’t you remember the FBI’s ‘pantie raid’ on the Kennedy compound? The famed ‘linge-raid?’ Hoover was searching for accessories after the fact. [Pink as his color.] Or maybe he just showed Bobby “the file,” instead.

    BTW, how’s that FBI search for Hoffa going?

    He may be buried in Reagan’s crypt along with Bob Dole’s IOUs from the 1970’s. Get a warrant and grab the jack hammers. Then dig up the Big Dick- the missing 18 minute gap may be buried in a cottage cheese container with him. And is Grant really buried in that tomb?? Or your backyard? Let’s find out. Yes, so proud of our “FBI.”

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  170. @159 Persuade? That’s what you’ve been trying to do? I would not have listed that in my top 3 if asked.

    frosty (4b30f5)

  171. Again, it’s guesswork and speculation.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 10:53 am

    It’s making for a good read though. I’m enjoying NeverTrump play the Q game. We need more details though for this to really get interesting. What are these programs? Is this the secret lizard people agenda or the satanic pope cult?

    As @167 points out is has to be big. Maybe something like time traveling aliens?

    frosty (4b30f5)

  172. @170. Pfft. We’re already in one, Royalist Rip: the Royalists vs., the Populists.

    “… convicts and file clerks. The worst convicts – those deep down in solitary confinement – and the most ordinary file clerks, probably for large insurance companies, because they would be in fire-proof rooms, protected by tons of the best insulator in the world: paper. And imagine what will happen. The small group of vicious criminals will fight the army of file clerks for the remaining means of life. The convicts will know violence, but the file clerks will know… organization. Who do you think will win?” – Prof. Groeteschele [Walter Matthau] ‘Fail-Safe’ 1964

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  173. Proud? Golly, Rip.

    Obviously you did not read the links in the referenced post 156.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  174. Is this the secret lizard people agenda or the satanic pope cult?

    Serious.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  175. @175. So you are hiding Hoffa? Let’s get on the ball, FBI: get a warrant and dig up Royalist Rip’s bathroom.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  176. They were willing to pay Tiger $700 to $800 million for showing up and hitting a few balls around, so how much are they paying Trump for hosting tourneys on–not one–but two of his courses.

    Which are not pro tour level courses by any means. Maybe girl junior amateur at best. They’re “resort” courses, with their par, slope, and rating due mainly to distance, scenic knolls for uphill shots, and “hazards” that are hidden gullies to sneak off for a quickie with the pro while hubby is ogling the barmaid at the Ninth Hole. The expression “a good walk spoiled” fits a game there, they’re pretty and meticulously maintained, but they’re more tedious than than they are challenging.

    nk (e441a4)

  177. Paul, that’s part of why I’d like to see the warrant, the details on what they were looking for might be informative towards the crime being alleged.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  178. @162 You mean like how Biden being compromised by the Chinese is disbelieved even though there’s more reason to believe that than russiagate?

    Actually, I’m not sure it’s an issue of belief as much as interest. So, maybe the comparison fails.

    Either way, I think you’re right.

    frosty (4b30f5)

  179. @176 If you’re going to play the something darker game that’s the road you’re going down. Don’t stop though. I just picked up more popcorn this morning.

    frosty (4b30f5)

  180. I don’t assume that Trump has been giving code words to hostile parties. This is about 1-6 and the big lie and all the stuff we know about that certain among us don’t want to think are crimes but probably are.

    If Trump proved himself a simple traitor, it would be easy to handle. This isn’t going to be easy, sorry to say.

    Appalled (f97c77)

  181. America is getting what it voted for.

    Biden/Harris 2024!

    “More, more, I’m still not satisfied!” – Tom Lehrer

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  182. “What are we to make of 30 or so FBI agents raiding President Trump’s Florida home to collect maybe 35 boxes of records for what is perhaps the Deep State’s 7th or 8th impeachment attempt? First, why no raids on the Democrats who took the jet to Epstein’s pedophile island with its readily available sex with underage girls? Why no raids on Hunter Biden and the apparent crimes documented on the laptop? Why no raids on Hilary Clinton after she destroyed evidence?

    The good news, and I think it is great news, is that at least a third of the country no longer believes they can expect justice from the federal department that bears that name. They see that federal law enforcement serves those in power and their own “interagency” agenda. Knowing that truth will keep you sane when the things that go on in Washington make no sense. It is all about power. And since you don’t have power, the message being sent to you is to keep your head down and your mouth shut. This is the ultimate brush-back pitch on the American public, which is clearly in the mood to clean house in Washington.

    Oh, but they will say it’s just about federal record retention law and classified documents. Hmmm… where are the prosecutions of the Muller team? Federal record retention law required them to have kept their cell phone records intact. Instead, when they turned them in, the inspector general reported that some managed to “forget” their passwords, and geez, they made too many wrong attempts, so their cell phones are all now permanently locked. “Hypocrites is too mild a word.” These are the same fake, phony frauds who want to enforce federal records rules on Trump?

    A friend in the legal system, no Trump fan, tells me it is dangerous to draw too many conclusions this early but thinks Attorney General Merrick Garland is making a big gamble that will bankrupt him if no “smoking gun” emerges.“

    —- Greg Byrnes

    https://pjmedia.com/columns/gregbyrnes/2022/08/09/deep-state-burns-its-bridges-to-get-trump-and-now-its-fighting-for-its-life-n1619449

    Colonel Haiku (47ee75)

  183. 87,000 IRS agents.

    “It’s bigger than the British Army.”- Lindsey Graham

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  184. For the calls for civil war. Read the links.

    Where did I do that? I did post something saying that everyone loses a civil war. That’s not actually pro-civil-war you know.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  185. We’re already in one, Royalist Rip: the Royalists vs., the Populists.

    Let me know when the shooting starts.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  186. “It’s bigger than the British Army.”- Lindsey Graham

    What isn’t?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  187. Rip, I think things got renumbered.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  188. Does bolding a comment mean it’s really important?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  189. If you’re going to play the something darker game that’s the road you’re going down.

    What part about “guesswork” did you not get?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  190. A friend in the legal system, no Trump fan, tells me it is dangerous to draw too many conclusions this early but thinks Attorney General Merrick Garland is making a big gamble that will bankrupt him if no “smoking gun” emerges.“

    A friend in the legal system is one heck of a source. Was “a guy at the bar whose been around the block a time or 2.” Or “his old college roommate that works in DC” not available for comment?

    I don’t mind the supposition, that’s all we have at the moment. But using that as a source is funny.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  191. @188. … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  192. > My suspicion is that Trump not only illegally possessed codeword intel, but shared it with a foreign power, and not a “good” power like UK, more like KSA, or Russia, or NK, or the Xi regime.

    And here’s the problem facing America: if that *is* what’s going on, a huge percentage of Trump’s supporters, including many of the Republicans in Congress, will decide that if Trump did that, it’s ok, because as President he gets to make that decision, *even if he wasn’t President any more at the time he did it*, and besides, we didn’t investigate Hunter’s laptop, so we can’t investigate this.

    America is doomed, at this point. It’s just a question of what form the doom takes.

    aphrael (954d17)

  193. Paul, Consider that not every comment made online is in good faith.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  194. The thing is, what would Trump be keeping? AFAIK, the man is obssessed with himself and anything he kept would be personally damaging, or perhaps personally gratifying. I can’t see him keeping secret rocket formulas or lists of CIA assassination targets. MAYBE some blackmail info, just in case. Anything meaningful about government secrets would be an unusual interest.

    If they were to say it had to do with Jan 6th, then maybe I could see it — missing visitor or phone logs indicating his part in a conspiracy, for example. But they say that’s not it. It had better be GD important to raid the ex-President’s home and blow open his safe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  195. Aphrael, Hopefully that isn’t what happened.

    Time123 (b64e57)

  196. @187. Let me know when the shooting starts.

    It already has, Royalist Rip. See Uvalde, Highland Park, Cincinnati, Buffalo for details.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  197. Where did I do that? I did post something saying that everyone loses a civil war. That’s not actually pro-civil-war you know.

    I never said you did, and post 156 was not directed at anyone, but just an interesting data point that MAGAWorld is calling for violence (shocking, I know). The FBI search has gotten them really animated about actually fighting. Some quotes:

    “Civil War 2.0 just kicked off,” one user wrote on Twitter, with another adding, “One step closer to a kinetic civil war.” Others said they were ready to take part: “I already bought my ammo.” …… “A total war on dissidents is about to unfold. Not behind closed doors but blatantly, in public,” another member wrote in a different far-right channel. “Attacks on Alex Jones, Trump, and Patriot Day defendants are only setting the precedent for the future of us as the only opposition to the Deep State.” …..In response to one meme suggesting gun sales and boating accidents would soar in the wake of the FBI raid, one member of TheDonald, a pro-Trump message board, wrote: “If it’s time to hide them, it’s time to use them.”

    Source

    “This. Means. War,” The Gateway Pundit, a pro-Trump outlet, wrote in an online post that was quickly amplified by a Telegram account connected to Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s onetime political adviser……“Country on the verge of CIVIL WAR???” Nicholas J. Fuentes, a prominent white nationalist, asked in a post advertising a livestream of the search. …….“This is it,” Monica Crowley, a former public affairs official in Mr. Trump’s Treasury Department, wrote on Twitter around the same time. “This is the hill to die on.”

    Source

    FBI = Gestapo 2.0 …… I will say, due to various reasons, I have no weapons. That will change this week. …..“This is a watershed moment.” Fort Sumter…….No election will save this country. …..The DOJ are enemies of the American People. One day they’ll be hanging from lamp posts. ……How long before some of the most naive on the right see that we are the only side abiding by the rules. We are screwed if we refuse or are too scared to fight the left with fire. We’re either gonna stand up and take the fight to them or we’re just gonna continue getting owned, whether we are in power or not.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  198. @196. The thing is, what would Trump be keeping?

    Maybe the FBI outta ask the U.S. government’s own GAO; they likely packed all the boxes; unless you believe Dapper Donald doffed jeans and a sweatshirt to box up all those papers.

    But rest easy, they’ll find those classified recipes for Mamie Eisenhower’s meatloaf, Rosalynn Carter’s peanut brittle and Pat Nixon’s chocolate chip cookies.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  199. @187. Let me know when the shooting starts.

    It already has, Royalist Rip. See Uvalde, Highland Park, Cincinnati, Buffalo for details.

    DCSCA (636ecd) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:39 am

    I didn’t they had taken a political side. They seem more like innocent victims.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  200. @201. You asked to let you know. You have been, Royalist Rip.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  201. You know, there is nothing wrong with assuming the obvious, rather than going with batbleep crazy James Bond speculations. Trump’s been acting like a criminal for years. DoJ might have had something that could pin a charge on the guy.

    If this were just about secret documents and Kim Il Jung, Trump would admit it, and his flying monkeys and pet eunuchs would be OK with it and they’s all be flinging poo at anyone who dared criticize.

    So what’s Trump done over the last few years that might get the Feds upset? Wasn’t there something about inciting a mob to storm the Capitol a couple years back?

    Appalled (47a35f)

  202. Biden, I think, has a policy of not interfering with investigations (the standard presidential position) and so knew nothing about this, but Attorney General Merrick Garland probably knew

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  203. America is doomed, at this point. It’s just a question of what form the doom takes.

    Both parties have been trying to delegitimize the other party for some time. Clinton’s impeachment, W’s election difficulties and hard-core opposition as a result, Obama’s refusal to work with Republicans, Hillary’s dismissal of half the electorate, Trump’s dialing all of this to 11 and Pelosi tearing up the SotU speech on camera in response.

    We could be electing leaders who try to bring us together. Nixon, for God’s sake, actually tried to do that (didn’t work). Reagan talked of the Big Tent. Clinton and W tried to reach across the aisle, but the response was largely not there.

    Instead, we have a generation of leadership that is dead set on othering. Even the calmer members of the parties (e.g. McConnell, Manchin) only have moments. They are still quite capable of strident partisanship most of the time.

    It’s too bad they can’t all lose.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  204. Andrew McCarthy thinks the search warrant cited presidential records or classified information but that the search warrant was pretextual and what they are really interested in is January 6

    (They are also, according to leaks, actually also working on the idea that his whole maneuvering to reject or replsce electors was a crime.)

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  205. “Does bolding a comment mean it’s really important?”

    My mistake… kinda funny that bothered you enough to draw that out.

    But, no… one must make 30, 40, 50 or more comments in a thread because one has sooo much to say, lol.

    Colonel Haiku (ed3136)

  206. DoJ might simply not trust Trump and his lawyers and that could account for the search warrant.

    Sammy Finkelman (743fe6)

  207. So what’s Trump done over the last few years that might get the Feds upset? Wasn’t there something about inciting a mob to storm the Capitol a couple years back?

    Sure but the MSM’s “sources” say that’s not it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  208. I don’t think a Republican who is willing to work with Democrats can win a primary in most districts, and I don’t think a Democrat who is willing to work with Republicans can win a primary in many districts.

    One helpful solution to this is to change our districting process to favor districts that are competitive (and therefore the primary is less determinative of the outcome), but it looks like instead we will reinterpret the constitution to make that impossible.

    Another solution would be to push towards electoral systems (multidistrict elections, proportional representation in large states, instant runoff voting) that reduce the incentive for politicians to stake out extreme positions, but there isn’t substantial support behind *any* of these proposals.

    We’ve built an electoral system that encourages and rewards extremism and uncompromising positions, rather than encouraging and rewarding compromise and working together. We’ve built that because it’s what most people *want*.

    aphrael (954d17)

  209. DoJ might simply not trust Trump and his lawyers and that could account for the search warrant.

    Then they are too stupid for words.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  210. What part about “guesswork” did you not get?

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:36 am

    What part of play the game did you not get? Let me help before you or Time claim something wasn’t clear. Does play the speculating about something darker game help?

    Are you thinking that adding the disclaimer means people can’t make snarky comments about it.

    frosty (255e30)

  211. @205. Nixon, for God’s sake, actually tried to do that (didn’t work).

    Nixon apologists never seem to listen, particularly to his tapes; step away from the bong.

    Reagan talked of the Big Tent.

    And sent in the clowns to infest all three rings.

    Clinton and W tried to reach across the aisle, but the response was largely not there.

    The ‘Incredible Shrinking President’ and ‘The Decider’ who decided not heed the OBL PDB.

    The populist cauldron has been simmering to a boil since the Gulf of Tonkin lie and the Pentagon Papers. Both these parties need expunged. The Founders warned the future.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  212. My gosh! Our new garage door has finally arrived… only took 4 months!

    Colonel Haiku (ed3136)

  213. Paul, Consider that not every comment made online is in good faith.

    Time123 (b64e57) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:37 am

    Glass houses and a lack of self awareness aren’t a good combination

    frosty (255e30)

  214. Does bolding a comment mean it’s really important?

    Yes. And No. ;-_)

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  215. aphrael,

    I can’t dispute that. As I’ve repeatedly said, an election system that does not depend on honest politicians is necessary. One-vote-3-elected districts cannot be gerrymandered and will result in a range of views. This can be done at the state level (and eventually at the federal level) fairly easily, if there is a will.

    The problem with all single-representative districts is they can be gerrymandered and NO currently-operating scheme can stop that. California’s “independent commission” produced the most extreme gerrymander in modern history. How? They packed the commission. Go read the bios of the commissioners. New Mexico’s commission produced 3 plans that the legislature ignored, after a judge said they could, and the result was a congressional map that had parts of Albuquerque dominating all 3 districts.

    Doesn’t matter how you count the votes in a gerrymandered district. It just gives voters a chance to posture.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  216. Then they are too stupid for words.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:57 am

    At some point the options shrink. You execute a search warrant for things you don’t have but want preserved as evidence.

    It’s been said here that it’s not Jan/6 material. That is the most likely reason but though.

    The story so far is classified documents. But Trump wouldn’t have the only copy of those and if they are as sensitive as has been described here why not destroy them on-site. Even if you’re trying to make a case for criminal prosecution this doesn’t add up. You won’t be producing that evidence in a trial if it’s that secret. The answer to that is what’s fueling the Jason Bourne/Q storyline.

    If they’re not Jan/6 or classified documents then what are the other options?

    frosty (017707)

  217. This was a surprise attack by a small armed force. Get used to it, comrade.

    mg (8cbc69)

  218. No question that the establishment pigs of the republican party are happier about this than the democrats.
    establishment goons are afraid something might squeeze their rice bowl.

    mg (8cbc69)

  219. Does play the speculating about something darker game help?

    Just considering possibilities, frosty. I really don’t know why this bothers you, or why you resorted to mockery.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  220. @211 And we’re still left with why now?

    frosty (017707)

  221. This is also true.

    Hillary Clinton’s mishandling of government emails was a real thing. Trump allegedly doing far worse is a more serious matter, but it doesn’t exonerate her.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  222. @222 It sounds like a bad movie plot. I can’t play along? The Rocky Horror Picture Show is invite only now?

    frosty (017707)

  223. @221 You can tell which ones are the most nervous about the FBI paying them a visit by how fast they get in step.

    frosty (017707)

  224. #226

    So that explains the Republican politician reaction to all of this?

    Appalled (47a35f)

  225. ‘Goddamn it, get in and get those files. Blow the safe and get it.’ – President Big Dick, June, 1971

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  226. @170. Pfft. We’re already in one [Civil War], Royalist Rip: the Royalists vs., the Populists.
    ………

    DCSCA (636ecd) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:07 am

    ………

    @187. Let me know when the shooting starts.

    It already has, Royalist Rip. See Uvalde, Highland Park, Cincinnati, Buffalo for details.

    DCSCA (636ecd) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:39 am

    So which side did the shootings at Uvalde, Highland Park, Cincinnati, Buffalo-Royalists or Populists?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  227. White House press spokesperson refuses to confirm or deny political weaponizing of the DOJ and FBI.

    Tone deaf and stupid.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  228. Remember so many fearing the next President would fire all those in the Federal government and turn it into a patronage system? How is that any different from what we have now. I welcome removing all leftists from office as they have destroyed the position they hold .

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  229. IF there is a civil war (a big IF, and as usual from the Trumpists, it’s just talk) I believe it will be more like the Northern Ireland “Troubles” rather than 1860-65.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  230. Here’s an alt-headline: “FBI raids home of Epstein-linked Clinton donor”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  231. I can’t play along? The Rocky Horror Picture Show is invite only now?

    Like I said at the outset: Serious.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  232. They will assassinate Trump soon. Then it will be me. …….

    My, we think highly of ourselves. I do agree that there will be major political assassination before the next Presidential election, but I don’t it will be Trump.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  233. @227 Some. Some just hate Trump. Some are making a political calculation with some degree of uncertainty. Your question seems to assume one R reaction to all of this which isn’t what I’m seeing though.

    Are you thinking an R politician who has no more knowledge than the general public is making a more informed comment?

    frosty (b9d313)

  234. @235. Might wanna ask MLK and RFK ’bout that. This ain’t 1968.

    Yet.

    But the kettle’s on the boil.

    DCSCA (636ecd)

  235. Here’s an alt-headline: “FBI raids home of Epstein-linked Clinton donor”.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 1:05 pm

    It gets even better:

    Judge who OK’d Mar-a-Lago raid Obama donor once linked to Jeffrey Epstein

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  236. Paul Montagu (062b7e) — 8/9/2022 @ 9:26 am

    What “criminal elements”?

    Rudolph Giuliani keeps on referring to the “Biden crime family”

    He’s basing this mainly on a misinterpretation of two things Hunter Biden wrote as they were “analyzed” by Steve Bannon.

    Hunter Biden wrote to his daughter, at the beginning of 2019, in response to a request for money, that he won’t make her pay half of her salary like “Pops” did. He also wrote that he’d been supporting his family for 30 years.

    So Bannon convinced Giuliani that Hunter Biden had been giving half the corrupt money he made to Joe Biden and other members of his family for thirty years.

    There is also the way Hunter proposed in 2017 that shares in a company he was planning to form be divided, with 10% being held by Hunter for “the Big Guy”

    Of course Hunter this was most likely a Big Lie: Lying to the Chinese company and others.

    The owner of that company was purged in early 2018 and disappeared into the Chinese Gulag his company (a Global Fortune 500 company) destroyed, most likely because Xi Jinping saw he was freelancing (attempting an independent long shot bribery scheme – in 2017 Joe Biden was out of office and not too likely to come back – but, if it panned out, he’d be the crucial connection. This was not the only thing he took a flyer on. Xi Jinping, apparently was not amused)

    https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2018/12/asia/patrick-ho-ye-jianming-cefc-trial-intl

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Jianming

    He has been under detention in China since March 2018 on charges of bribery..,,According to South China Morning Post and AsiaNews, the order for the investigation came from Chinese Communist Party general secretary Xi Jinping…

    Officially, he’s charged just with bribing a Communist Party official back in 2011.

    There were other things Hunter Biden did, in various countries, including earlier in China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden

    From 2013 to 2020, Biden served as a member of the board of the China-based private equity fund BHR Partners, of which he acquired a 10% stake in 2017 at a discount

    Joe (or some people interested in helping his political viability) has found away to take care of Hunter without more scandals, or at least not really bad scandals, and has even managed – maybe back in 2019 – to finally cure him of his drug addiction, reportedly using ketamine.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  237. To the tune of “he is in the jail house now!” Mr. trump meet your cell mates bubba and abdullah.

    asset (b67680)

  238. @233 If only. The rumor going around this morning was the judge who signed off on the search warrant was a defense attorney for accused accomplices of Epstein.

    So, another headline might be “Judge with ties to Epstein OKs raid on Trump for ‘classified’ documents”.

    frosty (b9d313)

  239. @241 Over at ace they say he was a magistrate. by the way kansas strikes again gov. says he doesn’t have the votes to call a special session to ban abortion in an election year.

    asset (b67680)

  240. Cincinnati was more of a nightlife-adjacent largely black on black thug on thug shooting in the mold of Sacramento,South St-Philly and several others that seem the be a feature of Saturday night.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  241. Nobody used to care – at least criminal terms – about people from government taking with them classified government records. I think this kind of concern doesn’t go back any further than the Clinton Administration (Clinton threw former CIA Director John M. Deutsch under the bus

    ”https://irp.fas.org/cia/product/ig_deutch.html

    And of course there was the matter of David Petraeus, who discussed classified matters with his mistress/biographer – thus dealing here with material classified at birth, which may have been the main issue remaining between Donald J. Trump and the National Archives/Department of Justice after Trump had sent 15 boxes to the National Archives. (they included the original letter he got from Kim Jong Un, dictator of North Korea – this stuff was apparently taken from the residence portion of the White House, and not generally filed with government records.)

    But in 2015, Bon Woodward writes without comment on page 2 in his book “The Last of the President’s Men” (Simon and Schuster 2015) about his trip out west in July 2014 to meet with Alexander Butterfield, who had taken all his records out of storage:

    One of Butterfield’s jobs in the Nixon White House had been to prevent departing staffers from leaving with official documents. But when he left in 1973, he carted off literally thousands of documents from the White House. Many are originals. Though Butterfield is normally very neat and organized–even fastidious–the arrival of new boxes from storage had created an unusual disorder.

    I immediately began dipping into the boxes and opening files. They contained everything from routine chronologies to bizarre memos outlining Nixon’s orders. Included were some previously undisclosed Top Secret exchanges with Henry Kissinger, Nixon’s national security adviser, and a few highly classified bulletins of the CIA….

    Woodward makes no comment on the legality of Butterfield retaining all of this. Even its legality by 2014-15.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  242. 240, both kinds of Bubba and both kinds of Abdullah are probably Trump sympathizers. On the other hand, I have no problem leaving Rudy G alone in a yard at Sing Sing or Attica (those in Rikers nowadays we’re probably chilluns or chamacos at the peak of stop and frisk).

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  243. They will assassinate Trump soon.

    Which side has been asking “when did we get to start shooting people?” and pledging civil war? Who was calling for the VP to be hanged, and vowing to drag the Speaker out by her hair? Which side has the militias, and boasts about having the guns and having the people with guns & badges & military training on their side?

    Oh, and who is “they”? The “establishment”? The “deep state”? An all-pervasive force of evil that’s always out to get Trump just because he loves America and is so righteously opposed to “corruption”?

    Who has been getting death threats for standing against Trump’s attempt to steal an election he lost?

    The Trumper victim ploy is really not very convincing.

    Radegunda (eadc21)

  244. California’s “independent commission” produced the most extreme gerrymander in modern history. How? They packed the commission. Go read the bios of the commissioners. New Mexico’s commission produced 3 plans that the legislature ignored, after a judge said they could,

    In New York, a judge said they couldn’t, even if the results were inconclusive, and anyway they couldn’t ignore the requirements in the 2014 state constitutional amendment like not taking the address of incumbents into consideration either, and he appointed a special master who drew up his own districts for the New York State Senate and for Congress, and postponed the primary till August 23, thus throwing long term incumbents Jerrold Nadler and Carolyn Maloney into the same district (although Nadler could have avoided that and run in the new Brooklyn 10th which included much of his old district)

    https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/ny-state-of-politics/2022/04/18/judge-appoints-special-master-as-redistricting-suit-continues

    The move is not wholly unexpected and the same judge last month ruled the maps should be redrawn after ruling they violated the state’s constitutional amendment against partisan gerrymandering. Democrats who control the state Legislature have argued the lines were drawn fairly and will be upheld.

    As for the Assembly, the map was also illegal, but nobody had sued, because the Republicans were satisfied – there was no hope of winning control of the chamber anyway, but the court invited a lawsuit, and then they said it was too late to sue this year – but they’ll probably be redrawn for 2024.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  245. Kevin M @211.

    Too stupid for words because they don’t trust Trump’s lawyers? (To comply with a subpoena or turn over all classified material)

    Apparently they’ve been arguing for months, and finally DoJ resorted to a search warrant. (for that, they do have to cite a probable crime)

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  246. Not so hard to believe that lizzy cheney has a husband that works for hunter bidens law firm.

    mg (8cbc69)

  247. Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 8/9/2022 @ 1:11 pm

    I’ve seen most of those allegations, Sammy, and that’s what they remain: Allegations.
    I have no doubt that Hunter is corrupt, willing to trade on his dad’s name to scare up some cash. Where his brother was the high-achiever with a glowing political future, Hunter is the loser, the Billy Carter of the clan.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  248. Love to see Trump announce he is running for president in 2024 today. and then tomorrow he can announce he wants to be speaker of the house if the stupid party takes control of the house. Shoving it right up the establishment republicans azz.

    mg (8cbc69)

  249. 200. DCSCA (636ecd) — 8/9/2022 @ 11:44 am

    Maybe the FBI outta ask the U.S. government’s own GAO; they likely packed all the boxes;

    You think they had time to study what they were packing? I don’t think thyever blamed Donald Trump for not sifting through his personal belongings, because I don;’t think they’d want anyone else held to that standard — of course if Trump had conceded earlier, he’d have had more time to go through things — Melania packed her stuff and took it to MAr0a-Lago weeks in advance but she couldn’t; very well tell Donald Trump to do that.

    They fault him for not returning stuff that they say he shouldn’t retain.

    The warrant says nothing about Jan 6, but Andrew McCarthy thinks that anything connecting him to January 6 was what they were hoping to find, i.e. that the warrant was pretextual.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  250. French is right there with Montagu.

    My position on both investigating and prosecuting Trump is simple. Two things are true. First, no American is above the law, including presidents and former presidents. Second, we ought not prosecute presidents or former presidents absent overwhelming evidence of guilt under clearly established law.

    A corollary to both points is that public investigative steps—like search warrants—should only be undertaken when the basis for the action is rock-solid. Don’t utilize novel legal theories or shaky evidentiary assertions to pursue a president. You damage the republic if you do.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  251. Paul Momtagu @250.

    None of what Hunter did was openly and forthrightly soliciting a bribe. It was more like someone selling flour and letting people think it was heroin.

    I think Hunter went so far as to falsely imply his father was part of the scheme with CEFC. I don’t think Joe Biden even knew he was supposed to be given a key to an office in Washington.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  252. @248 If this is a case of the DOJ “resorting” to a search warrant over something “they’ve been arguing about for months” then they are to stupid for words and if they cited “a probable crime” to do that then they should be in a world of hurt.

    Any issue that has been going on for “months” isn’t some sort of immediate issue that needs a raid and it’s not a “probable crime” if Trump’s lawyers and DOJ attorneys have been arguing about it that long.

    frosty (74b26e)

  253. In Ukraine with Burisma, I don’t think Mykola Zlochensky thought he was bribing someone important — but he wanted other people in Ukraine to think that he was.

    They’d think the fix was in and leave him alone.

    Since 2019 he’s also been left alone, because, as Volodomyr Zelensky said, Ukraine needs the support of both political parties in the United States.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  254. that the warrant was pretextual.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 8/9/2022 @ 2:02 pm

    This isn’t better. Unless you’re very careful this is lying under oath to obtain the warrant. They’re going to need something better than we think you kept some things covered by the records act so we’re going to search your place for Jan/6 info under that warrant.

    frosty (74b26e)

  255. Thinking about registering as an democrat so I can get away with breaking the law.

    mg (8cbc69)

  256. Just in Garland receives the Joseph Stalin Award. Liz Cheney 2nd.

    mg (8cbc69)

  257. fbi agent to liz cheney- we found out he ripped off the tags on his furniture. “Told you we would get him”.

    mg (8cbc69)

  258. Can we get a breathalyzer on grandma whiskey’s microphone?

    mg (8cbc69)

  259. Remember the Oklahoma City bombing? Remember the early stages with Tim McVeigh being perp-walked across our TV screens24/7? That was Merrick Garland. He knows how to try a case in the media.

    Trump thinks he’s milking this. He is not. He thinks he’s spinning it. Nope. He’s burning rubber and running his bearings dry until they seize.

    nk (ef7622)

  260. Just in Garland receives the Joseph Stalin Award. Liz Cheney 2nd.

    With Leonard Atwood cluster.

    “Higgins, who is Leonard Atwood?” – Joe Turner [Robert Redford] ‘Three Days of the Condor’ 1975

    DCSCA (e06c6c)

  261. @254 You’re deep into speculation here. If the information we have is correct Hunter was paid a lot for the “appearance” of a bribe and influence over a long period of time. That doesn’t check out. Most people want results for that much money.

    frosty (74b26e)

  262. frosty (74b26e) — 8/9/2022 @ 2:07 pm

    Any issue that has been going on for “months” isn’t some sort of immediate issue that needs a raid and it’s not a “probable crime” if Trump’s lawyers and DOJ attorneys have been arguing about it that long.

    The crime would be illegal retention of government records or what should be government (presidential) records according to a 1978 law, or mishandling classified information.

    Now years ago, nobody thought about this sort of thing in terms of a potential criminal prosecution.

    Bob Woodward makes no comment about Alexander Butterfield having retained, from 1973 to at least 2014, then top secret discussions between Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger and highly classified bulletins from the CIA (among the mass of the other material)

    He also had a an abortive memoir he’d started in the 1990s, and a lot of memos he’d written during the 50 months he worked in the Nixon White House.

    Woodward first interviewed Alexander Butterfield on July 18, 2011 in a house Woodward owned in Maryland near Annapolis but later he flew out west to California and did 40 hours plus of interviews with Alexander Butterfield in four sessions over 11 months from the end of July 2014 on digital audio and sometimes digital video.

    Alexander Butterfield was 88 years old in 2014.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  263. @261. Can we get a breathalyzer on grandma whiskey’s microphone?

    “I do know that there has been chatter. More than chatter about the presidential documents and how they must be preserved for history.” – Nancy Pelosi, 8/9/2022

    Said the Wicked Witch of the West who tore up the ‘State of the Union speech’ -a presidential document- on live television.

    “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” – Henry II of England, 1170

    DCSCA (e06c6c)

  264. But, no… one must make 30, 40, 50 or more comments in a thread because one has sooo much to say, lol.

    Well, I’ve made 18 so far, not counting this one. I’m probably in 5th place.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  265. @253. French is right there with Montagu.

    Stereophonic RINOS blow their horns.

    Misery seeks company.

    DCSCA (e06c6c)

  266. frosty (74b26e) — 8/9/2022 @ 2:20 pm

    @254 You’re deep into speculation here. If the information we have is correct Hunter was paid a lot for the “appearance” of a bribe and influence over a long period of time. That doesn’t check out. Most people want results for that much money.

    The appearance of corruption was in Ukraine. People there didn’t know how Washington worked. Maybe a lot of the money was really going to Obama they could think. And that would stop investigations in Ukraine — which is where the danger to him was.,

    Zlochevsky also had someone from Poland on his board.

    Besides that, Hunter Biden could provide:

    1) A safe vote, if necessary, to help him retain control of Burisma (none was needed)

    2) Possible referrals to Delaware corporate governance lawyers, who might know of schemes not possible in Delaware, but possible in other places with not so good laws. Or at least Hunter could say he knew lawyers. Zlochevsky was not supposed to be in control of Burisma.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  267. IF there is a civil war (a big IF, and as usual from the Trumpists, it’s just talk) I believe it will be more like the Northern Ireland “Troubles” rather than 1860-65.

    Closer to Bosnia, where there is no real geographical separation between sides. Thugs take over a street or neighborhood and go around executing the people who don’t side with them.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  268. Too stupid for words because they don’t trust Trump’s lawyers?

    No, because they turn a mundane dispute into a constitutional crisis.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  269. frosty (74b26e) — 8/9/2022 @ 2:13 pm

    Unless you’re very careful this is lying under oath to obtain the warrant. They’re going to need something better than we think you kept some things covered by the records act so we’re going to search your place for Jan/6 info under that warrant.

    Andrew McCarthy thinks it was pretextual.

    That doesn’t mean that they so much as a word about that on their search warrant affidavit. He just thinks that was the real motive.

    Usually in search warrants they can look at what they stumble across, and this is how some things were discovered in some Mafia cases.

    When it came to the search of Anthony wieners computer, that’s not what they did. The FBI was very careful not to run any search where they might stumble across anything unintended. Nor did they double check the work Hillary Clinton’s lawyers did earlier.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  270. gov. says he doesn’t have the votes to call a special session to ban abortion in an election year.

    After the Kansas vote, we will not see much movement toward total bans. We will see a lot of the Euro-type law: 12-15 weeks on demand, after that for good reason. BTW, the UK has no provision for abortion on demand, although the reasons they demand in the first trimester are minimal, but need to be more than “I wanna.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  271. I hope the search warrant turns out to be legally justified. Not because I want to see Trump prosecuted or “get what’s coming to him” — I don’t, per se — but because trust in all our institutions is already so low they can’t take much more of a beating. Things are bad when about half the country, with some justification, automatically questions the motives of the government whenever it does something. If yesterday’s search turns out to be some pretextual move in furtherance of a political vendetta, the Biden administration will have hurt itself but will have damaged the country even more.

    RL formerly in Glendale (48bc71)

  272. Over at ace they say he was a magistrate

    And magistrates are appointed by the judicial district, to help with their load.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  273. The Praetorian Guard [justice dept.] needs to be gutted.

    mg (8cbc69)

  274. 271. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 2:37 pm

    No, because they turn a mundane dispute into a constitutional crisis.

    It’s not a constitutional crisis. Even though Donald Trump refers to himself as a president, which everybody else changes into “former president”

    It’s not a constitutional crisis. It’s, at worst, a political outrage, and abad precedent.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  275. Don’t you really mean:

    hard to believe that lizzy cheney has a husband

    mg (8cbc69) — 8/9/2022 @ 1:56 pm

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  276. Pretextual stuff is a bad idea. But it happens.

    The last moving violation I got was pretextual to a sobriety checkpoint. There’s an I-405 offramp that ends in a forced right turn. Yet there is a stop sign there, even though there is no real intersection. There is also no immediate view to the right as the road is cut through a hill. Everybody rolls the stop sign.

    But that’s a moving violation, and around that corner about 150 years down the road was a sobriety checkpoint. Given the moving violation, there is no issue with a sobriety check. They could probably ask you to pop the trunk.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  277. *150 yards.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  278. Sammy, you need to take fewer literal pills.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  279. https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/trump-raid-not-about-classified-documents-its-about-jan-6/

    …The Justice Department obviously used the potential classified information as a pretext to obtain a warrant so it could search for what it is really looking for: evidence that would tie Trump to a Capitol riot offense – either a violent crime, such as seditious conspiracy to forcibly attack a government installation (which is highly unlikely), or a non-violent crime, such as conspiracy to obstruct the January 6 joint session of Congress to count electoral votes, or conspiracy to defraud the government.

    As previously explained, I believe it would foolhardy for the Biden Justice Department to indict a former president on such debatable non-violent crime charges. That is especially so when it comes to a former president who could be the 2024 Republican nominee, since such charges would fuel the perception that Democrats are using the Justice Department as a political weapon.

    That said, let’s assume Attorney General Merrick Garland contemplates bringing such conspiracy charges against Trump. If so, DOJ would need to prove that Trump clearly knew that the 2020 election was not stolen by fraud, yet willfully persisted in deceptive schemes to prevent Congress from counting the state-certified votes that would establish Biden’s victory.

    [I’m not sure you could make that into a crime -SF]

    This is why, in recent weeks, the Justice Department has aggressively sought evidence from advisers close to Trump. In June, it executed search warrants on both former Justice Department attorney Jeffrey Clark, who sought to help Trump convince contested states of the false premise that DOJ believed Biden’s victory might be fraudulent; and constitutional law scholar John Eastman, architect of the legal strategy by which Trump unsuccessfully sought to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to discount electoral votes from key states won by Biden.

    About a week ago, DOJ issued grand jury subpoenas to Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone, and Cipollone’s deputy Patrick Philbin, who were aware of and reportedly pushed back against Trump’s schemes to undo the election result.

    The Biden Justice Department is under enormous pressure from the Democratic base to indict Trump, and it is straining to deliver. But what it is trying to deliver is a Capitol riot case, not a case of mishandling classified documents.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  280. Besides, when a former president is subjected to a search, first time ever, over reasons that appear to be either mundane or pretextual, and just about every politician has a forceful opinion one way or the other, it IS a constitutional crisis.

    1) It’s a former president, who has special status historically
    2) Searches and seizures are mentioned in the Constitution, as are their limits
    3) It was approved by an officer of the other party who probably should recuse himself
    4) If, as has been said, it was regarding a matter unrelated to a crime, it fails at least one constitutional test.

    Maybe it’s not a crisis, I’ll give you that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  281. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_rJ8JBaP0I&t=2s

    “I trust his judgment.” – Nancy Pelosi, 8/25/21

    “Our country could not be more — it could not be better served, than with this most experienced, capable hands than yours, President Biden. He’s just perfect! The timing couldn’t be better.” – 12/15/21

    Jesus.

    Memo to Xi: Take Taiwan.

    Now.

    DCSCA (e06c6c)

  282. 150 out? 8 iron.

    mg (8cbc69)

  283. 278-🍻

    mg (8cbc69)

  284. Biden approval rises to 40%, highest in two months, Reuters/Ipsos shows

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. President Joe Biden’s public approval rose this week to its highest level since early June following a string of legislative victories, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll completed on Tuesday. The two-day national poll found that 40% of Americans approve of Biden’s job performance, a level of support that is historically low for a U.S. president.

    So only 60% of Americans see you’re a steaming pile of crap doing a sh-t job, eh, Joey?? ‘Here’s the deal;’ ‘I’m not kiddin”: down so long it looks like up to you, eh, Joey:

    Hit it, Morrison:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF5jOntntcY

    DCSCA (74f698)

  285. I gave you all Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 41 right at the beginning:

    (1) a magistrate judge with authority in the district—or if none is reasonably available, a judge of a state court of record in the district—has authority to issue a warrant to search for and seize a person or property located within the district;

    Do note that the alternative is a state judge and not a federal District Judge.

    nk (00b895)

  286. nk,

    What are the limits on Magistrates?

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  287. in 3-2-1- old chuck will write another mean letter…

    mg (8cbc69)

  288. silence from the disloyal sleaze bag minority leader chi com mitch

    mg (8cbc69)

  289. Latest one on Twitter is that this is about recovery and control of classified material. If true it may not lead to an indictment.

    Not sure how what I think about that.

    Would very much like to see that warrant. Any ideas why Trump hasn’t released it?

    Time123 (7a9e35)

  290. yime123

    its sealed

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  291. EPJW, Trump has a copy and can chose to show it to the media.

    Time123 (7a9e35)

  292. 150 out? 8 iron.

    It was a hell of a dogleg.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  293. EPJW, Trump has a copy and can chose to show it to the media.

    TMZ would post it in 6 seconds.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  294. It’s beginning to look like Trump’s tax returns may not make it to the House committee. At least not if the GOP succeeds in retaking the House. Trump can probably run out the clock.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  295. Latest one on Twitter is that this is about recovery and control of classified material.

    NYT says so, too.
    TL;DR Trump returned 15 boxes to the National Archives in January; the National Archives saw that some of it was classified and told DOJ; and DOJ impaneled a grand jury. And shades of Obama, the White House only learned about it when they read it in the newspapers.

    nk (825948)

  296. I’m guessing Trump’s lawyer read the warrant, and she’s using the Stolen Election Stratagem, i.e., “if I win the Electoral College, then it was a clean election, and if I lost it was stolen because I really won”.
    In this case, she’s saying there’s nothing there, but if there is something there, the evidence was either planted or made up. Oy.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  297. sealed is sealed

    EPWJ (cbe1a0)

  298. Latest one on Twitter is that this is about recovery and control of classified material.

    In that case they deserve all the crap they get. They could have sent the US Marshals to do this. But someone wanted the equivalent of a perp walk. Garland is going to have to resign.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  299. The “crime” they allege in the warrant is one that is never prosecuted in cases like this. A simple lawsuit demanding the return of documents, with the US Marshals executing the resulting court order is they way this should have been handled.

    As much as I dislike Trump, this is crap. Garland is crappier than Trump. Hard to believe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  300. Biden struggles with coughing fit during speech days after COVID recovery

    President Biden had to repeatedly halt remarks on the White House lawn due to a persistent hacking cough Tuesday — just days after he tested negative for COVID-19 following a “rebound” infection. Biden, 79, paused several times during his remarks on passage of a $280 billion computer-chip bill, including at one point to sip water.

    “This is the most difficulty [Biden] has had getting through prepared remarks in a while as he struggles with repeated coughing/throat clearing,” tweeted Voice of America journalist Steve Herman. Jake Schneider, deputy director of rapid response at the Republican National Committee, tweeted, “Just imagine a scenario in which Donald Trump gives a speech days after he gets COVID and hacks nasty coughs into his hands every 30 seconds. It’d be a national emergency. That’s exactly what Joe Biden is doing this morning. Predictably, crickets.”

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/biden-struggles-with-coughing-fit-during-speech-days-after-covid-recovery/

    A bum and a hack.

    DCSCA (74f698)

  301. PANTIE RAID!

    NY Post says FBI rummaged through Melania’s wardrobe… sniffing out evidence, eh fellas:

    FBI searched Melania’s wardrobe, spent hours in Trump’s private office during Mar-a-Lago raid

    FBI agents scoured Melania Trump’s wardrobe and spent several hours combing through Donald Trump’s private office, breaking open his safe and rifling through drawers when they raided the former First Family’s Mar-a-Lago home [for NINE HOURS] in Florida Monday morning.

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/fbi-even-searched-melanias-wardrobe-in-trump-raid/

    DCSCA (74f698)

  302. @304, so far they haven’t prosecuted anything. But I’m pretty sure the government will seize classified material if they believe you have it. Also, there was no perp walk. If Trump hadn’t issued a statement this might still be unknown.

    Time123 (0a44f2)

  303. “As much as I dislike Trump, this is crap. Garland is crappier than Trump. Hard to believe.”

    Imagine the guy as a justice on the SCOTUS!

    Bad enough that the sh*tbird is AGOTUS, but America dodged an RPG when his nomination was sh*t-canned

    Colonel Haiku (8b99b0)

  304. Everybody and their brother has a source that says that they know what was in the boxes. The people who do know aren’t talking. We won’t know until they do talk and I can’t make a judgement until I know why they went in/what they found, so this is one I’ll watch, but I’m not going to go with over the top speculation either way.

    Nic (896fdf)

  305. @308. How’d you like to be the FBI agent assigned to spend nine hours going through Meliana’s drawers. He was probably gay. 😉

    DCSCA (74f698)

  306. I heard they sent in the tranny division of the fbi.

    mg (8cbc69)

  307. @310 Meh. Melania’s not that hot. Marla Maples was better.

    norcal (da5491)

  308. Senators Blunt, Burr, Capito, Cassidy, Collins, Cornyn, Ernst, Graham, Grassley, Inhofe, Johnson, Lankford, McConnell, Moran, Murkowski, Portman, Romney, Rounds, Thune, and Tillis — all joined Democrats to approve Garland’s nomination.
    vote republican…lmmfao at you people

    mg (8cbc69)

  309. There was collusion. Those boxes were going to be gotten no matter what.

    The Democrats desperately need “victories”. Trump needs to have his marks send him $$$.

    The FBI tipped off the Secret Service and the Secret Service made sure Trump was away. The media got a story. The people got a COPS episode. We even got some good discussions here when we avoided the trolls. Everybody wins!

    Has anybody else noticed that Hostess Twinkies have an aftertaste much like that of banana cream pie?

    nk (825948)

  310. The “crime” they allege in the warrant is one that is never prosecuted in cases like this. A simple lawsuit demanding the return of documents, with the US Marshals executing the resulting court order is they way this should have been handled.

    As much as I dislike Trump, this is crap. Garland is crappier than Trump. Hard to believe.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/9/2022 @ 5:23 pm

    Have you seen the search warrant, much less the probable cause affidavit? If so, please share a link, because I’d love to see them too. If not, I don’t see how you can make such categorical assertions. How can you know all the crimes that are implicated without knowing the contents of the warrant and affidavit? What’s your basis for saying those crime(s) are never prosecuted? How can you possibly know it without knowing the full scope of potential criminality, which, again, you can’t without having read the warrant and affidavit? How do you know everything sought in the search would have been obtainable by lawsuit? I’ve seen several people with far more expertise than my own say otherwise. Here’s one.

    I don’t know the answers to any of those questions. The most knowledgeable people I’m reading say it’s far too soon to opine confidently on most of it, certainly not without knowledge of the warrant and affidavit. Maybe you know more than they do, in which case it would be helpful to show it with more than bald assertions. If not, a little humility may be in order.

    FWIW, in case you’re wondering why I’m directing this at you instead of at the resident Trump cultists who gave us all the answers before we knew the questions, it’s because I take you seriously.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  311. What a waste if that was the case, #310, though do not discount the possibility that Melania is “Depend-ent”, like Lisa Rinna.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  312. Another GOP impeachment vote bites it.
    Tribe uber alles.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  313. @315 The comment you quoted looks like a continuation of the previous comment which seems predicated on a specific crime, ie it’s speculation. I think it’s safe to read that as if the crime was document retention then this is the wrong way to go about dealing with it. I think people say that crime isn’t prosecuted because it is hard to find examples when it was and easy to find examples when it wasn’t.

    I tend to agree and I’d point out that if that is the case we’ve spent the better part of 24 hours being lied to and manipulated. If this is a disagreement about documents then all of this we’ve heard about federal judges and FBI agents only doing this in the most dire of circumstances has been utter nonsense. If that’s true this has been exactly the political theater that was alleged from the start.

    frosty (0c5006)

  314. @318. I see none of the contingency in that comment that you do. I wish I did. What I see is unqualified, categorical assertion. As for your hypothetical, from whom have we heard “all this… about federal judges and FBI agents only doing this in the most dire of circumstances?” Wray? Garland? No. I can imagine any number of hypoteheticals under which I’d object to the search, and any number that would justify it. And I don’t anticipate getting any closer to either conclusion without more facts, including one or more of (1) the text of the warrant; (2) the text of the affidavit; and (3) the results of the search.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  315. Going through Melania\s personal effects illustrates some of the stupidity of all this. Of course, when they do a search warrant, they go through the whole premises. But this is stupid here.

    Had Donald Trump wanted to hide something, he has several other laces he lives, most notably Bedminster, New Jersey. He could have taken things there, and even buried them in his golf course.

    It turns out that a number of FBI agents visited Mar-a-Lago back in June, and they may have reached an agreement, Trump agreed to put some documents who’s possession was disputed, or which might be classified, or maybe what he conceded might possibly be covered by some law,. in a safe. Trump was there that day.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  316. “Secret police: –

    Police established by national governments to maintain political and social control. Generally clandestine, secret police have operated independently of the civil police. Particularly notorious examples were the Nazi Gestapo, the Russian KGB, and the East German Stasi. Secret-police tactics include arrest, imprisonment, torture, and execution of political enemies and intimidation of potential opposition members.’- britannica.com

    DCSCA (26322a)

  317. It turns out that a number of FBI agents visited Mar-a-Lago back in June, and they may have reached an agreement, Trump agreed to put some documents who’s possession was disputed, or which might be classified, or maybe what he conceded might possibly be covered by some law,. in a safe. Trump was there that day.

    We now learn they came armed with asubpoena; they didn’t expect to see Trump personally; they were given a tour of the storage arrangements, and were given a small number of additional documents at the time.

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/trump-got-grand-jury-subpoena-spring-voluntarily-cooperated-home

    The subpoena [served in late May – a visit was arranged for June 3] requested any remaining documents Trump possessed with any classification markings, even if they involved photos of foreign leaders,

    !!? What’s so secret? The camera? The fact there was a photographer there? The persons he met with? It was just automatically marked classified, along with anything else produced as a result of the meeting?

    correspondence or mementos from his presidency.

    Mementos? Some country or foreign official gave him a book, or other piece of printed writing, or a ring maybe inscribed with a message, and it was stamped classified because of where it came from? Not everything is like the Israeli Prime Minster meeting with an Arab leader.

    Secret Service agents were also present and facilitated the visit, officials said.

    Trump signaled his full cooperation, telling the agents and prosecutor, “Look, whatever you need let us know,” according to two eyewitnesses. The federal team was surprised by the president’s invitation and asked for an immediate favor: to see the 6-foot-by-10-foot storage locker where his clothes, shoes, documents and mementos from his presidency were stored at the compound.

    Given Trump’s instruction, the president’s lawyers complied and allowed the search by the FBI before the entourage left cordially. Five days later, DOJ officials sent a letter to Trump’s lawyers asking them to secure the storage locker with more than the lock they had seen. The Secret Service installed a more robust security lock to comply.

    Around the same time, [the second week of June] the Trump Organization, which owns Mar-a-Lago, received a request for surveillance video footage covering the locker [so the FBI etc could see if somebody had stolen any material from the locker at least during the hours of footage they received?] and volunteered the footage to federal authorities, sources disclosed.

    What I heard yesterday sounded like they wanted video footage from later.

    Also that the FBI agents wanted the cameras turned off while they were there, but Trump’s people, or the Secret Service, wouldn’t do it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  318. What’s your basis for saying those crime(s) are never prosecuted?

    On their own. If there are additional actions, such as transferring them to third parties, destroying documents, offering them for sale on eBay, or sleeping with the boss’ daughter, then it’s part of the charge sheet.

    That is not to say that mishandling secrets won’t get you fired or lose you your clearance.

    And I’d rather say “hardly ever” than “never” because “Never say never.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2415 secs.