Patterico's Pontifications

8/2/2022

Primary Day: Of Course Trump Weighs In On Republican Impeachers

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:04 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Today is primary day in a number of states. Three of the races involve Republicans who voted to impeach the former president. Thus, Donald Trump took to social media to remind Americans that his own personal witch hunt of the three has absolutely nothing to do with their conservative bona fides but instead his endorsement of their opponents (who support the Big Lie) has everything to with his inability to accept defeat. Still. Loyalty to the Constitution, conservative voting records, and standing on long-held conservative principles continues to mean nothing to the titular head of the GOP. Only loyalty to him matters. A giant man-baby whose feelings got so spectacularly hurt that he continues to seek vengeance. Sadly, many Americans continue to be loyal to this man who doesn’t care about them nor about the governance of America. Instead, what he cares about is getting back at those who rightfully told him NO:

Regarding the Washington state primaries involving Herrera and Newhouse, CNN reports:

Two of Tuesday’s primaries in Washington state represent a key question for the Republican Party: 18 months removed from Donald Trump’s second impeachment, has the GOP anger at party lawmakers who backed the effort subsided?

Primary voters will answer that question for Reps. Jaime Herrera Beutler and Dan Newhouse, two of the 10 House Republicans who joined Democrats to impeach Trump after the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol. In the months since their votes, both have paid the price at home. They have been criticized by their state party, censured by local leaders and challenged by handfuls of Republican challengers.

[…]

Herrera Beutler is facing off against a series of opponents who have attacked her for the impeachment vote, including author Heidi St. John, state Rep. Vicki Kraft and retired special forces officer Joe Kent, whom Trump has backed.

Newhouse, likewise, faces a series of Republicans who have hammered him for his vote, including former NASCAR driver Jerrod Sessler, state Rep. Brad Klippert and vocal election denier Loren Culp, who has been endorsed by Trump.

Also, facing an uphill battle is Rep. Peter Meijer from Michigan’s District 3. He is running against Trump-backed election conspiracist John Gibbs. Meijer published a scathing piece yesterday at Common Sense, in which he lambasted Democrats for cynically subsidizing Gibbs’ campaign . This is Meijer’s description of Gibbs:

Gibbs, a former political appointee in the Trump administration, denies the results of the 2020 presidential election. (“I think when you look at the results of the 2020 election, there are anomalies in there, to put it very lightly, that are simply mathematically impossible,” he said last month in a televised debate.) Gibbs has accused Obama administration officials of taking part in bizarre Satanic rituals. He defended antisemites on his now-locked Twitter account, and has tweeted that Democrats are the party of “Islam, gender-bending, anti-police, ‘u racist!’”

Quite a candidate there, Michigan. More from Meijer:

At the same time, to some in my party, we were Bad Republicans—RINOs at best, traitors at worst. After the impeachment vote, I was immediately censured by two county parties in my old district. In my new district, the Republican Party of the largest county repudiated me a few weeks ago. The Michigan GOP Chair joked about my assassination. There have been too many online threats to count.

Watching this unraveling inside my party has been utterly bewildering. The only thing that has been more nauseating has been the capacity of my Democratic colleagues to sell out any pretense of principle for political expediency—at once decrying the downfall of democracy while rationalizing the use of their hard-raised dollars to prop up the supposed object of their fears.

You can find the voting record of each candidate here.

Also, the Wyoming primary will take place on Aug. 16. Running against Rep. Liz Cheney is Trump-backed Harriet Hageman. While Cheney is trailing Hageman at this point, she is at peace with the very real possibility of losing to her opponent:

“If I have to choose between maintaining a seat in the House of Representatives or protecting the constitutional republic and ensuring the American people know the truth about Donald Trump, I’m going to choose the Constitution and the truth every single day,” she said.

There are, of course, other important votes taking place today, including a post-Roe vote in Kansas, where a proposed amendment would add to the state constitution a declaration that there’s no right to abortion—a step that would free the Republican-controlled state Legislature to pass restrictions or an outright ban. Reports say that voter turnout has been very high:

Early voting was robust. As of Monday, 271,438 ballots had been cast. That’s far more than the last midterm primary in 2018, when advance mail-in and in-person ballots totaled 89,449, according to the Kansas Secretary of State’s office.

Unaffiliated voters—who’d generally have little reason to pay attention to a primary—delivered more than 40,000 of the early votes. Republicans cast 122,677; Democrats, 106,800; and Libertarians, 1,457, according to the state’s data.

You can follow all of the primaries here and see the results as they come in.

–Dana

183 Responses to “Primary Day: Of Course Trump Weighs In On Republican Impeachers”

  1. Hello.

    Why it matters what happens to the three impeachers: their fate will reflect the level of Trump’s influence and hold over the Republican Party. And that matters because 2024 is right around the corner. The primaries will be a key look at the direction of the GOP and the 2024 presidential election.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. “If I have to choose between maintaining a seat in the House of Representatives or protecting the constitutional republic and ensuring the American people know the truth about Donald Trump, I’m going to choose the Constitution and the truth every single day,” [Liz Cheney] said.

    Between the ‘Wicked Witch of the West’ and ‘Daughter Darth,’ ‘hypocrisy’ is in full bloom this August:

    Liz Cheney Helped Create Donald Trump’s GOP

    The Wyoming representative is now standing up to the president’s lies, but from flirting with birthers to pushing anti-Muslim rhetoric, she long stood with him.

    ‘… [Liz Cheney] voted in line with Trump’s positions 93% of the time. Until the 2020 election, her most notable differences with the president were on foreign policy. Cheney was more hawkish than Trump, in line with the reputation of her hawkish father, former Vice President Dick Cheney. She disagreed on policy, but it was never acrimonious….’

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/liz-cheney-republican-party-create_n_609579c7e4b0f73e530d4b2e

    DCSCA (9344d5)

  3. Election fraud in Arizona caught! Republican trump candidates told voters to steal felt marking pens and replace them with pens that will gum up the voting machines. Republican county attorney orders republicans to stop trying to sabotage polling places or be arrested! Some machines compromised.

    asset (ec8c01)

  4. This sounds almost as alarming as asset’s post:

    Pinal County – Government 🌵

    @PinalCounty
    Due to unprecedented demand for in-person ballots, Pinal County has experienced a ballot shortage in certain, limited precincts. Pinal County is continuing to print additional ballots and distributing them to each affected precinct polling place.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/PinalCounty/status/1554617201679687680

    And it comes from the government that failed to prepare for the election.

    BTW, asset, do you have a link to your story?

    BuDuh (340919)

  5. Here is the story on the STOLEN PENS!!!! and it is underwhelming at best:

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2022/08/02/arizona-polls-open-august-2022-primary-election/10166077002/

    Very isolated and insignificant. When it reaches “widespread,” then it is a story.

    BuDuh (340919)

  6. There is a conspiracy of major proportions in the Sun Belt, but it is not an election conspiracy. It is putting on the crazy to keep any more people from moving there.

    nk (894793)

  7. Ktar reporter watches as republicans told they are out of republican ballots by officials and many republicans get in their cars and drive away with out voting. A few voters still waiting ;but officials don’t know if they an get anymore ballots. Now being reported on kpnx and channel 15 just turned to kari lake calling it a fraudulent election.

    asset (a9d21a)

  8. Where the GOP is at these days:

    The Republican National Committee has been relying on a stable of the party’s most prolific spreaders of false stolen-election theories to pilot a sweeping “election integrity” operation to recruit and coach thousands of poll workers in eight battleground states, according to new recordings of organizing summits held this spring in Florida and Pennsylvania obtained by POLITICO.

    On the tapes, RNC National Election Integrity Director Josh Findlay repeatedly characterizes the committee’s role as supporting in-state coalitions — delivering staff, organization and “muscle” in key states to the person they identify as the quarterback of the effort to create a permanent workforce: Conservative elections attorney Cleta Mitchell, who was a cen

    tral figure in former President Donald Trump’s legal strategy to overturn the 2020 election.

    Dana (1225fc)

  9. yes, Trump thinks it’s all about him, say those who call themselves NeverTrump

    JF (a6d404)

  10. @8 type “Voter ID” in the helpful search bar on this blog, and you’ll find plenty of posts advocating positions that would be classified today as “vote suppression” and attempts to “overturn” elections

    so much for principles

    JF (a6d404)

  11. Missouri U.S. Senate Primary Election Results

    24% of precincts reporting

    Eric Schmitt. 89,894 43.0%
    Vicky Hartzler. 52,973 25.3%
    Eric Greitens. 40,591 19.4%

    Rip Murdock (e39e4b)

  12. @10 happy! Get rid of these bums on the supreme court now!

    asset (a9d21a)

  13. yes, Trump thinks it’s all about him, say those who call themselves NeverTrump

    Now do that with plumbers.

    nk (894793)

  14. @11. Name 3. Bet you can’t.

    Time123 (591a28)

  15. “Dixon Now” – Trump endorsed candidate wins in Michigan.

    DCSCA (9344d5)

  16. @10. Freedom of choice; Dorothy’s Lament.

    “Toto, I have a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.” – Dorothy Gale [Judy Garland] ‘The Wizard of Oz’ 1939

    DCSCA (9344d5)

  17. Name 3. Bet you can’t.
    Time123 (591a28) — 8/2/2022 @ 7:02 pm

    one

    two

    three

    you lose

    have you figured out why you like Youngkin, yet? Bet you haven’t

    JF (a6d404)

  18. Guess Alito won’t be speechifying at the Eisenhower Library in Abilene any time soon.

    DCSCA (9344d5)

  19. 57% of the vote counted in MI 3:

    Candidate Total Votes % Votes
    Meijer (R) * 24,937 50.5%
    Gibbs (R) 24,419 49.5%

    Dana (1225fc)

  20. @20 This will happen in every state. In red states with initiatives abortion right will win easily.

    asset (a9d21a)

  21. I expect to be told to blow my horn in 5…4…3…2…

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  22. Update:

    Trump-endorsed John Gibbs (R) retakes the lead over GOP Rep. Peter Meijer (R) by 653 votes in the #MI03 GOP primary

    Dana (1225fc)

  23. @22. Not tonight. Paul. Read your post on the passing of Vin Scully. A legendary broadcasting voice unsurpassed is silenced. My two lifetime favorites: Scully… and Pittsburgh’s Bob Prince.

    A sad night for baseball.

    DCSCA (9344d5)

  24. FiveThirtyEight:

    Among races that have been called so far tonight, 17 Republican candidates who outright deny the legitimacy of the 2020 election have won, while 3 other candidates who questioned the results have clinched their nominations.

    Dana (1225fc)

  25. Well done, Dems.
    Meijer is out, Gibbs is in. You may well have reaped what you’ve sown.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  26. Paul,

    It’s really unbelievable that a sane and reasonable conservative was defeated by a nutjob election-denier who was financially helped by Democrats.

    Dana (1225fc)

  27. Paul, the Washington Post says just 51 percent of the votes have been counted in Meijer’s district. (As I understand it, his support there varies by county. Without knowing where he is strong and where most of the votes have come from, we can’t yet predict a victor.)

    So far it looks as if both Jamie Herrera Beutler and Dan Newhouse here in Washington state will survive their top-two primaries — and their Trump-endorsed challengers are both currently in third place.
    https://results.vote.wa.gov/results/20220802/federal-all.html

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  28. @27 Its completely believable. The d.n.c. and dccc are the moral degenerates of the democratic party. Normally they spend more time and money trying to defeat the left wing of the democrat party.

    asset (fd7504)

  29. Ok, FiveThirtyEight has more recent results on the Meijer-Gibbs race, and they don’t look good for Meijer.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  30. Pinal County Elections Director David Frisk should resign immediately.

    RNC AND RPAZ STATEMENT ON BALLOT ISSUES IN PINAL COUNTY

    PHOENIX, AZ – Today, Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and Republican Party of Arizona (RPAZ) Chairwoman Kelli Ward released the following statement regarding ballot issues in Pinal County, Arizona:

    “During Arizona’s primary elections, the RNC and Republican Party of Arizona’s poll observer program documented and reported multiple failures by Pinal County’s Elections Administrator, including 63,000 mail-in ballots delivered to the wrong voters and multiple Republican-heavy precinct locations running out of ballots. This is a comprehensive failure that disenfranchises Arizonans and exemplifies why Republican-led efforts for transparency at the ballot box are so important. Pinal County Elections Director David Frisk should resign immediately.”

    https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1554675872501735426?cxt=HHwWhICxlYLeqJMrAAAA

    This is ridiculous, IMO. Arizona’s election officials needed to shine on this day and put to rest any of the garbage that bolsters the the notion that their elections cannot be trusted. In addition, I have heard that it has been three hours since the last real ballot result dump from Maricopa. What gives? Apparently Florida counts 14 million votes in one and a half hours.

    This is terrible AZ.

    BuDuh (340919)

  31. A Vin Scully video you probably won’t see anywhere else.

    Speech at the Reagan Library, June 11, 2014

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  32. @32. Beautiful.

    DCSCA (9344d5)

  33. Should the Kansas constitution be amended to remove protections of abortion rights?

    It should be pointed out that the Kansas court ruled that the words “All men are possessed of equal and inalienable natural rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” contained a guarantee of “reproductive choice.” This overturned a state law that banned elective surgical second-trimester abortions.

    I am willing to bet that the information presented to the voters was mostly froth and misdirection.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  34. The voters of kansas just gave the republican party a post natal abortion by over 60%! It should be put on the ballot in every anti-abortion state.

    asset (fd7504)

  35. And the icing on the cake:

    Fox News Channel crushes basic cable viewership across the board in July

    ‘Fox News Channel finished July as the No. 1 cable network across the board as Americans sought information and analysis during a busy month that featured everything from a tragic mass shooting in Highland Park to President Biden testing positive for COVID. Fox News averaged 1.4 million total day viewers, finishing as the only basic cable network to surpass the one-million viewer threshold. MSNBC, Hallmark Channel, CNN and HGTV round out the top five.

    Fox News also finished as the most-watched basic cable channel during the primetime hours of 8-11 p.m., averaging 2.2 million viewers compared to 1.3 million for No. 2 MSNBC. The lineup of “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” “Hannity” and “The Ingraham Angle” outdrew primetime options on MSNBC and CNN combined.

    It was the 18th straight month that Fox News finished as the most-watched cable news network during primetime.

    The demographic most coveted by advertisers also preferred Fox News, as the network finished with the largest audience of adults age 25-54 among both total day and primetime. MSNBC continued having issues in the key category, finishing behind 19 basic cable options including TLC, Paramount, MTV and FX among total day demo viewers. It was even worse for MSNBC during primetime, when the progressive network finished No. 21 and trailed Adult Swim, A&E and Comedy Central, among others. “The Five” averaged 3.2 million viewers to finish July as the most-watched program on cable news. It was the seventh time in the past eight months that “The Five” finished with more viewers than anything else on cable news. “Tucker Carlson Tonight” finished second with 3.1 million viewers average nightly viewers, followed by “Jesse Watters Primetime” and “Hannity.”

    Fox News had 10 of the 11 most-watched cable news programs, with Maddow’s once-a-week offering being the only exception. CNN’s most-watched show was “The Lead with Jake Tapper,” but it averaged only 804,000 viewers to finish No. 25 in cable news behind 15 Fox News and nine MSNBC programs. “Tucker” was the most-watched show among the key demo, followed by “The Five,” “Hannity,” “Jesse Watters Primetime,” “Gutfeld!,” The Ingraham Angle” and “Special Report with Bret Baier” as the eight most-popular shows in the critical category aired on Fox News.

    FOX & Friends” averaged 1.3 million viewers and 198,000 among the demo to crush CNN’s long-struggling “New Day” and MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” combined in both categories. “FOX & Friends” has now been the No. 1 morning program on cable news for 16-straight months, and not a single CNN program outdrew it among the key demo during July.

    “Amercia’s Newsroom with Bill Hemmer and Dana Perino,” “The Faulkner Focus,” “Outnumbered,” “America Reports with John Roberts and Sandra Smith,” Martha MacCallum’s “The Story” and “Your World with Neil Cavuto” all had strong months as Fox News’ daytime lineup continues to dominate the competition.’ – source, Nielsen Media Research/FoxNews

    DCSCA (3b556d)

  36. Kelli Ward is the weasel in the henhouse. (She’s for sure not a fox.) She has no interest in showing that Arizona knows how to run an election. Just the opposite. She wants to prove that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen and the Arizona Electors should be decertified. And all she needs for that is to just be her own incompetent self.

    nk (d3841c)

  37. And, honestly, John Gibbs is the superior candidate. Stanford and Harvard educated with a real record of accomplishments, genuinely one of the “best people” Trump promised to appoint in 2016. Meijer is just a rich man’s son, and a ginger to boot, whose “record” basically amounts to a series of internships, impeachment vote or no impeachment vote.

    nk (d3841c)

  38. @18, none of those are remotely close to attempts to overturn an election.

    Time123 (591a28)

  39. Washington State stays weird. Long live the Jungle Primary! In this case not /sarc.

    And does any of the Meijer district touch the lake Michigan coast? The summer home people from Chicago must have supplied the extra Gibbs ballots.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  40. There is no need for a referendum on abortion in most Republican states, because in most Republican states the state supreme court will not find a right to abortion in the state constitution.

    mikeybates (c102d7)

  41. #27

    It is believable. The Democrats in Washington think 1-6 is a great election issue for them but don’t feel threatened by it. You think they would have learned by now.

    Appalled (984a45)

  42. Oh dear. Whatever should we do!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. So happy that Eric Schmitt got the nomination in MO.

    I’ll tell you why the Trump-obvious backed Greiten failed to get enough support.

    Most GOP Missourian remembered when Todd Akin put his foot in his mouth, eventually losing to McCaskill.

    Guess what was passed with 60 Democrat Senators to overcome cloture?

    The PPACA, aka “Obamacare”.

    We remember, and even when Missouri is possibly the most Trumpiest state behind West Virginia… his obvious support behind Greiten didn’t help, at all.

    whembly (b770f8)

  44. I also see it as a rejection of “San Francisco values”, whembly.

    nk (a75e9c)

  45. @38

    And, honestly, John Gibbs is the superior candidate. Stanford and Harvard educated with a real record of accomplishments, genuinely one of the “best people” Trump promised to appoint in 2016. Meijer is just a rich man’s son, and a ginger to boot, whose “record” basically amounts to a series of internships, impeachment vote or no impeachment vote.

    nk (d3841c) — 8/3/2022 @ 3:05 am

    Meijer lost because he voted to impeach Trump (unpopular with man GOP voters), red flag laws (unpopular with man GOP voters), the J6 committee (unpopular with man GOP voters), co-sponsored putting gender identity in civil rights law (unpopular with man GOP voters), and other things unpopular with GOP voters.

    He didn’t lose *just* because the DCCC spent some money to help his opponent. Money that he couldn’ve easily overcome because his fook’n wealthy.

    He lost because he did enough unpopular things to his constituents, AND Democrats keeps doing the things that they think will work for them, but get side-swiped during the election (aka, Trump in 2016).

    whembly (b770f8)

  46. “man” = “many”.

    Ugh, need to review spellings before pasting and hitting send.

    *can’t we get an edit button here? lol

    whembly (b770f8)

  47. #42

    Vote for Warnock here in Georgia because, once again, you Trumpistas think a sports hero with no prior interest in politics but more baggage than Zsa Zsa Gabor on a weekend shopping spree is something us Georgians are just going to support. When the Democrats out stupid you in this state, my vote is up for grabs. (As it is an Abrams vs Kemp)

    Appalled (239144)

  48. If Gibbs and J. James make it to the next Congress, will black Detroiters lean on them for support or obstructions on certain issues on account of the fact that there will no longer be a true black representative from Detroit proper.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  49. nk, a guy who’s batsh-t despite being “Stanford and Harvard educated” is not a point in his favor.

    Paul Montagu (062b7e)

  50. It was a factually and grammatically true statement, Whembly, but I suppose women GOP votersdon’t like the gender identity thing either.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  51. The Kansas question should have been placed on the general election ballot, rather than a low turnout primary election. It would have had a better chance of passing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  52. 48… all becomes clear… just takes a little more time for some to self-identify.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  53. Haiku — was a RINO/ independent pre-Trump. I never have hidden that, so I’m not sure what you think you are saying.

    Appalled (239144)

  54. Hey… you find Warnock and Abrams appealing enough to cast votes for them, good luck to you.

    Colonel Haiku (e51835)

  55. Stop the steal: Kari Lake surged into the lead in Arizona thanks to late-night ballot dumps

    ……..
    (Karrin) Robson by eight?! With three-quarters of the state reporting? Sweet fancy Moses. The polls had Kari Lake winning by double digits! Even the very best recent poll for Robson had her ahead by just one point.

    Sane Republicans in Arizona had shocked the world, sending the establishment pick to an upset victory over the election truther. Maybe all hope for the party wasn’t lost after all!

    ……The “blue mirage,” on the other hand, happens in states where mail-in votes are counted first and then election-day votes are tallied up. …….

    Last night’s Arizona primary had a “blue mirage” effect. Because Lake’s hardcore supporters are MAGA populists, it was inevitable that they’d take Trump’s paranoia about mail ballots to heart and insist on voting same-day. Robson’s more establishment supporters were more comfortable with mail ballots by comparison. Arizona counts mail ballots first, so lo and behold — Robson jumped out to a shocking lead.
    ……..
    But then the Election Day vote began to come in and the mirage faded. As I write this the following morning, Lake now leads by nearly two points. The race hasn’t been called yet because there are still some outstanding mail ballots that might break heavily for Robson, but victory for the establishment choice is a longshot at this point.

    And so we arrive at the rhetorical question on everyone’s mind, to which we all know the answer:

    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    Is Kari Lake pulling into the lead as additional ballots get counted overnight one of those things that Kari Lake would question as corrupt if she wasn’t the beneficiary of it?
    5:59 AM · Aug 3, 2022·TweetDeck

    David Catanese
    @davecatanese
    Easy to imagine what the reaction from Lake + her supporters would be if it was Robson who flipped a 9 pt deficit into an advantage overnight.

    There’s not a shadow of a doubt that Lake and Trump would be screeching about a “rigged election” if Arizona had counted same-day votes first and then mail ballots. If Robson somehow does come back on the strength of late-arriving mail votes, the two *will* screech about it. The entire “stop the steal” fraud was based on a deliberate misreading of how the “mirage” effect in elections works. Given how heavily invested Trump and Lake each are in that deception, they have no choice but to allege cheating if she loses. Especially given the polling that showed she was on her way to winning comfortably. (Polling can be relied on when it shows the populist winning but is always fake news when it shows them losing.)

    In fact, Lake already began hinting about fraud last night before the same-day vote had come in and it looked like Robson really might pull this off:
    ……..
    In the end, Lake’s margins among same-day voters were mind-blowing, in some counties on the order of 40 points. “Think of how crazy that is for a second,” writes Tim Miller. “The Republican base is so detached from reality that a majority segment no longer trusts the mail……This is madness!”

    Lake supporters shouldn’t celebrate too hard, though. The fact that she’s going to eke out a two- or three-point win over the “Anyone But Lake” option on the ballot after leading in polling by 10+ points suggests there’s a meaningful share of Republican voters who are open to voting Democratic this fall………
    ……..
    We’ll see if Doug Ducey and other establishment Republicans in Arizona decide to stump for a crank who’s unfit to serve or if they do what Democrats continue to fail to do by putting country over party.
    ##########

    Currently Lake is ahead 46.% to 44.4%, or 11,324 votes.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. Ha, ha, ha! That’s what happens when Chicagoans move to Arizona.

    And now we know why some precincts ran out of Republican ballots. They were waiting, filled out, in car trunks, to be cast as needed for Kari Lake.

    Comrades, vote-by-mail fraud is the BIG LIE. The real fraud happens after the polls close. When the precinct workers are told how many votes are needed, and then look at the books to see who did not vote and cast their votes for them.

    And just try to prove it!

    nk (a75e9c)

  57. That is a great link, Rip. Hahaha! They are losing their minds!

    To be outraged that anyone dare to prefer same day voting…

    Hahaha!

    BuDuh (340919)

  58. As usual, taking a quote out of context.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  59. Here is the quote you shortened [bolding mine]:

    In the end, Lake’s margins among same-day voters were mind-blowing, in some counties on the order of 40 points. “Think of how crazy that is for a second,” writes Tim Miller. “The Republican base is so detached from reality that a majority segment no longer trusts the mail. As a result the disparity between the early vote and the election day count in some places was as much as 40 points! This is madness!” Not the whole Republican base — Robson got close, after all — but certainly the MAGA faithful.

    Although the bolded part is included in your shortened quote, I am not sure how you don’t read that as people who prefer to vote in person are “detached from reality.”

    What did I get wrong?

    BuDuh (340919)

  60. Here is the section from the Bulwark that Allahpundit excerpted(the link is within Rip’s Hotair link) [emphasis theirs]:

    TIM MILLER: Around 11ET I had drafted a sunny little ditty for the newsletter. The Biden agenda and the Trump impeachers were alive while Al-Zawahiri and Kari Lake were dead.

    Alas, as the night wore on it was revealed that the sanity was a merely an early vote mirage. Peter Meijer’s lead in the MI-3 congressional race was erased, as the election day vote in Michigan heavily favored the pro-insurrection challenger John Gibbs,

    While the votes continue to be counted in Arizona, the same trend apparently put Kari Lake over the top in the state’s gubernatorial race.

    Think of how crazy that is for a second. The Republican base is so detached from reality that a majority segment no longer trusts the mail. As a result the disparity between the early vote and the election day count in some places was as much as 40 points! This is madness!

    There was a small green shoot in Washington, where the top-2 jungle primary system protected both of that states pro-impeachment Republicans, Jaime Herrera Beutler and Dan Newhouse. It is likely that once all the primaries are done it will only be Herrera-Beutler, Newhouse, and California’s David Valadao who survive among the pro-impeachment house Republicans.

    All 3 went through a jungle primary, which is the best argument for moving to that system nationwide that I can imagine.

    Jungle Primaries are the solution? This has to be satire.

    BuDuh (340919)

  61. I am not sure how you don’t read that as people who prefer to vote in person are “detached from reality.”

    What did I get wrong?

    I assume the “madness” reference is to the fact that the “majority no longer trusts the mails”, not in-person voting.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. #55 Abrams — not so much. She did Trump in Georgia before Trump did Trump in Georgia. Warnock is standard Democrat. Walker is in no way qualified to be a Senator, unfortunately. It would have been better if he had kept his personal challenges out of the political arena, and kept his political ignorance between him and his TV set.

    Appalled (fa627b)

  63. @63. I’m sorry- what qualified Warnock to be a Senator?

    mikeybates (556527)

  64. I can see that but I also factored in that he is specifically griping about the disparity in the votes. Do you really think he is saying that the Republican base, which I have always imagined meant the majority of Republicans, do not trust the mail for their daily life’s transactions? If he is saying that, I would think he would need something more as evidence besides two winning primary candidates that he doesn’t like and two potentially losing primary candidates that he doesn’t like.

    BTW, I think Jungle Primary is really a term for something other than what California and Washington do. I think they are called Top 2 Primaries and the Jungle Primary name has been misused. The need to look that up.

    Nonetheless, Tim, the Bulwark super conservative, believes the nation should go to the same system that keeps the Progressive looneys in the majority in two of the most commie states. So there is that.

    BuDuh (340919)

  65. https://ballotpedia.org/Top-two_primary

    https://ballotpedia.org/Jungle_primary

    At a glance it seems the big difference is that in a Jungle primary if the top vote getter(regardless of party) receives enough of the vote he could win the election outright and not worry about the general election.

    I’ll read more about this later.

    BuDuh (340919)

  66. @50, Yeah it’s amusing/depressing/startling that so many of the GOP candidates feel compelled to run on “stop the steal” lunacy and protection of Trump. Trump and Trumpism has done to the party what no Russian/Chinese espionage plan could have ever accomplished. They are giving the party faithful exactly what they want and, as Mr. Haiku might say, they deserve to get it good and hard….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  67. I suspect that some of the “Stop the Steal” candidates are insincere. That doesn’t make them great people, but it makes them better than the True Believers. Pandering for votes is a time-honored tradition. If they manage to swindle Trump, I’m OK with that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  68. I hope that the dividing issue in 2024 is whether or not Trump should be pardoned.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  69. The Ballotpedia descriptions of blanket primaries, top-two primaries, and jungle primaries are close to my understanding of the differences among the three types. Though I have to add that there aren’t fixed definitions of the three, that everyone would agree on.

    The Wikipedia article on a similar subject omits the blanket primaries, which Washington state used to use, but includes a fair amount of recent history, and even a little analysis.

    The Louisiana “jungle” primary will make more sense if you remember that, after the Civil War, Louisiana was a one-party, Democratic state, until rather recently, so in effect it was for many years just a Democratic primary, with a runoff, if no candidate received a majority.

    (It likely was an attempt to get around the Supreme Court’s decision outlawing white primaries.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  70. All 3 went through a jungle primary, which is the best argument for moving to that system nationwide that I can imagine.

    It also protects people like Maxine Waters.

    If you want to have diverse views in a legislative body, you need to go to a single-vote/multiple-seat election. Impossible to gerrymander and more likely to produce results where the vast majority feel they have a voice. If voters get one choice and, say, 3 are elected then any sizable minority can have representation, even if it’s just a more moderate member of the same party.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  71. @67

    @50, Yeah it’s amusing/depressing/startling that so many of the GOP candidates feel compelled to run on “stop the steal” lunacy and protection of Trump. Trump and Trumpism has done to the party what no Russian/Chinese espionage plan could have ever accomplished. They are giving the party faithful exactly what they want and, as Mr. Haiku might say, they deserve to get it good and hard….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/3/2022 @ 11:17 am

    With regards to Meijer, if you are a GOP voter and really thought for a guy who said “Yeah, I voted for an assault weapons ban, gun control, trans ideology, FDA giveaways, and the J6 committee…but I voted to impeach Trump!” was a winning message? As if impeaching Trump should only matter?

    Come on.

    His impeachment vote was never the only thing that mattered.

    Furthermore, if you want GOP to succeed, you cannot excommunicate the general Trump voters.

    whembly (b770f8)

  72. #68 Kevin – Kari Lake supported Obama in 2008. It is possible that her switch from being a conventional Republican before then, and her switch to being a Trumpista later, reflected true changes in her beliefs, but I am not sure that is the way to bet. And I can’t help noticing that, in each case, she could have thought she was joining a winning side.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  73. The absolutely worst election system is the slate election: each voter gets as many votes as there are seats. It ends up with a majority party, or local faction, getting all the seats. The Santa Monica renter’s faction does this in every election.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  74. And I can’t help noticing that, in each case, she could have thought she was joining a winning side.

    She might have just despised McCain.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  75. Furthermore, if you want GOP to succeed, you cannot excommunicate the general Trump voters.

    There’s this guy I knew in college. When he got into an argument, not only did he want you to admit he was right, you also had to admit that you were an idiot for taking the position you did. Needless to say, people didn’t want to discuss things with him much.

    As much as I commiserate with that guy when it comes to Trump voters, I grudgingly accept that the GOP is unlikely to win them over by insisting they admit they were bloody fools for supporting Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  76. 75, in the general sense or the touchy-feely sense? That might have been an actual thing.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  77. Allahpundit on the Meijer defeat:

    https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/08/03/how-much-blame-do-democrats-deserve-for-peter-meijers-primary-defeat-n487191

    The fault, Dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves. And we’re getting it good and hard.

    Appalled (8c95cd)

  78. Ohhhh, you better watch out, you better not cry
    You better not pout, I’m telling you why
    Donald Trump’s returning to town
    He’s making a list and checking it twice
    He’s gonna payback who’ve been naughty or nice
    Donald Trump’s returning to town
    You see him when you’re sleeping
    He’s there when you’re awake
    He bugs you when he’s bad or good
    Which is good for goodness’ sake!
    Oh, you better watch out, you better not cry
    Better not pout, I’m telling you why
    Donald Trump’s returning to town!

    DCSCA (3fed46)

  79. The establishment republicans lost me during the eight year boosh daydream. The gop is useless.

    mg (8cbc69)

  80. @80. Not your fault: America was neoconned.

    No more.

    DCSCA (3fed46)

  81. DCSCA (3fed46) — 8/3/2022 @ 1:06 pm

    Ha!

    Too bad I’ll be long gone when ALL Mothers invoke the name of Trump to get their children to behave. I’m pretty sure there are a few mothers that do it right now.

    mg (8cbc69) — 8/3/2022 @ 1:07 pm

    Man, do I hear you!

    felipe (484255)

  82. CNN profits on track for lowest level in years amid ratings crash

    CNN shed nearly 27% of its viewers this quarter compared to last year and could see its annual profits dip below $1 billion for the first time since 2016, according to a new report. The bleak outlook for CNN’s business affairs comes three months after Chris Licht took the reins as CEO. Projections indicate the network’s profits are on pace to tumble to $956.8 million this year, the New York Times reported.

    “I don’t want producers making decisions based on what they think will rate,” Licht told CNN employees during his first week. Initially, CNN was reportedly targeting $1.1 billion in profits for 2022 but had been projected to run about $100 million short of that target. Financial losses as a result of CNN+’s collapse, which shuttered after about a month from its start date, exacerbated the company’s woes even further.

    Since his accession to CEO, Licht has reportedly been keen on steering the cable network from what he perceives as sensational reporting. He has told staffers to refrain from deploying the “Breaking News” chyron excessively and wants the network to focus on “truth” instead of alarmism, Fox News reported. Licht’s style marked a significant departure from predecessor Jeff Zucker, who resigned from the network earlier this year under pressure when details emerged of an undisclosed relationship he had with a colleague. Zucker’s departure came amid a pending shake-up as CNN’s former parent company, WarnerMedia, merged with Discovery.

    Licht’s appointment as CEO was announced in February, and he formally took over in May. The network drew an average of roughly 639,000 prime-time viewers during this quarter — a 27% nosedive from a year ago, per the New York Times. This puts CNN behind MSNBC, which is down 23% during the same time frame, and Fox News, which is up about 1%. To remedy this dilemma, executives have reportedly been scrambling for ways to hunt for more money. Licht has reached out to Chris Marlin, who does not have experience managing a cable news company, to brainstorm ideas for revenue resurgence. He has reportedly pitched or mulled ideas such as advertising deals with major tech firms, selling sponsorships, and expanding operations in China. CNN brass has also reportedly tamped down on expenses, with caps on travel and internal festivities to cut costs.

    As a cable network, the majority of CNN’s revenue comes from subscription deals with cable companies, but it has also historically relied on advertisement revenue, which is affected by ratings. The past year has been tumultuous for CNN amid several public scandals that have dogged the network. Most notable was the firing of prime-time host Chris Cuomo upon revelations of how he assisted his brother, the former governor of New York, with his response to a sexual misconduct scandal. Cuomo’s departure has left the network without a permanent replacement for its 9 p.m. prime-time slot for months. Cuomo recently began a podcast and is joining NewsNation.’ – washingtonexaminer.com

    DCSCA (3fed46)

  83. Breaking- Indiana Congresswoman Jackie Walorski [R] killed in auto accident.

    DCSCA (3fed46)

  84. Some good news from Arizona:

    Candidate Suspected Of Being QAnon’s ‘Q’ Badly Loses Congressional Primary
    …….
    (Ron) Watkins, who has strongly denied being the lead writer for the movement that spawned “Pizzagate,” came in seventh out of seven GOP candidates in the state’s 2nd Congressional District, earning barely 3,000 votes with just over 70% of precincts reporting Wednesday.

    A self-described computer scientist in his 30s, Watkins ran an alt-right message board that hosted Q’s writings, leading some journalists and academics to conclude that Watkins may have been posting as Q. Watkins denied it during an April debate. “I was not Q, and I am not,” he said.
    ……..
    “When the election was stolen, I was out there fighting tooth-and-nail to bring the information to the politicians,” Watkins said during the April debate, echoing support for the bogus idea that Trump lost due to widespread fraud, acceptance of which has become a litmus test for many Republican primaries.
    ………
    Watkins’ campaign was also plagued by weak fundraising, an awkward debate performance and his questionable connection to a district he said he grew up in but only returned to late in 2021 to run for office.

    Sad!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  85. Donald Trump’s returning to town!

    It’s where the trial will be held.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  86. Ryan Kelley, Arrested For Jan. 6 Involvement, Loses GOP Nomination For Michigan Governor

    There was a brief period in the GOP race for Michigan governor when real estate broker Ryan Kelley seemed to be the front-runner.

    It happened, improbably, after Kelley was arrested and charged with misdemeanors stemming from his participation in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, and after five candidates — including the two previous front-runners — were denied a spot on the ballot because they submitted fake petition signatures.
    ……..
    In a Facebook post Wednesday morning, Kelley wrote he would “not concede” the race to Dixon despite finishing in fourth place, and he questioned whether the election results reported by the state were correct.

    Kelley was just one of the Republicans running this cycle with ties to the Capitol riot. He maintained that he didn’t enter the Capitol that day, but investigators placed him directing rioters into the building. Kelley admitted his participation in the preceding “Stop the Steal” rally and claimed his arrest helped boost his name recognition among GOP voters.
    ……..

    More sad!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  87. @41 many of these red states have initiative so voters can still give right to lifers a post natal abortion at the polls! In az in the short time between the leak and dead line for initiative process ran out. Over 150,000 signatures were gathered. They will be back next year and get the number easily to put on ballot as 2/3 of arizonians are pro choice.

    asset (30c122)

  88. Mark McCloskey, who waved gun at protesters, garners just 3 percent of GOP Senate primary vote

    Mark McCloskey, who became infamous in 2020 for waving a rifle at Black Lives Matter protesters who marched near his front lawn in St. Louis, lost his bid for a U.S. Senate seat in Missouri on Tuesday night.

    McCloskey won just 3 percent of the vote, according to results from The Associated Press, while Missouri’s Attorney General Eric Schmitt earned 45 percent of the vote to clinch the GOP nomination.
    ………
    The U.S. Supreme Court last month rejected an appeal from the couple, who argued the ruling violated their Second Amendment right to defend themselves in their own home.
    ………

    His 15 minutes of fame expired a long time ago. Even more sad!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  89. @86. ROFLMAOPIP:

    You see him when you’re sleeping
    He’s there when you’re awake
    He bugs you when he’s bad or good
    Which is good for goodness’ sake!

    😉

    DCSCA (3fed46)

  90. Gibbs, a former political appointee in the Trump administration, denies the results of the 2020 presidential election. (“I think when you look at the results of the 2020 election, there are anomalies in there, to put it very lightly, that are simply mathematically impossible,” he said last month in a televised debate.)

    I’ll tell you what’s going on here with that “mathematically impossible” or “statistically” impossible (used by Trump in his December 20, 2020 tweet that cryptically used the word “wild”)

    The idea here has to do with the probability that there will be a change in the lead as more and more votes are reported. The claim is not actually that it is mathematically impossible, but the probability is too low for it to be realistic.

    But all those calculations depend on the votes coming in in random order.

    And they did not.

    Mail in votes came in either earlier or later than votes cast at the polls, and the difference between who won in those cases was very big — thanks to Trump.

    Trump told all of his voters, except for those in Florida, not to vote by mail

    The Florida Republican Party had long promoted absentee voting and they complained to Trump so Trump said that in the case of Florida the situation was under control and it was OK.

    He himself compromised, voting early in person.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  91. Eric Schmidt won.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/02/us/politics/missouri-senate-schmitt.html

    But the Delphic Trump can claim to have endorsed him.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  92. Depending on the state west and mid west 40% to 50% trumpsters south 60% to 70% trumpsters. Plus 10% to 20% populists anti free trade, anti war, anti immigration some of these border latinx, and anti woke fed up democrats. None of these are never trumpers who are at best 15% to 20% of the republican party mostly the old establishment.

    asset (30c122)

  93. Should the Kansas constitution be amended to remove protections of abortion rights?

    No 205,835 66.3%

    Yes 104,490 33.7%

    Similar unexpected results occur in referendums on school vouchers, even though the public by and large favors them.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 8/2/2022 @ 11:06 pm

    It should be pointed out that the Kansas court ruled that the words “All men are possessed of equal and inalienable natural rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” contained a guarantee of “reproductive choice.” This overturned a state law that banned elective surgical second-trimester abortions.

    The law that the Kansas Supreme Court threw out was passed while Roe v Wade was still the law of the land, so it would not be a good predictor of what kind of law the Kansas sate legislature might pass now, which would be more un line with what had passed in Oklahoma and Texas.

    I am willing to bet that the information presented to the voters was mostly froth and misdirection.

    The public probably got scared that Kansas could pass a law limiting abortion to cases where the life of the mother in danger, and that that would cost lives because doctors would be afraid to attempt it, or would consult lawyers in an emergency situation. Or that miscarriages could be investigated. Or that women could be punished for going to another state and other people sued or punished for helping them go. Or that mail might be inspected.

    Not knowing what was true many people took the more cautious approach.

    The same thing (a court likely twisting words) happened in a Florida referendum in 2012, that sought to overturn a 1989 Florida Supreme Court decision that said a state constitutional amendment (passed in 1980 but after Roe had used the word privacy) that said “Every natural person has the right to be let alone and free from government intrusion into the person’s private life” meant abortion.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/06/us/florida-court-rules-against-abortion-curbs.html

    In a 6-to-1 decision, the court said a law requiring teen-age girls to get a parent’s consent for an abortion violated a clause of the Florida Constitution that guarantees a citizen the ”right to be let alone and free from governmental intrusion into his private life.”

    By using the clause that explicitly guarantees Florida citizens a right to privacy, the ruling probably cannot be affected by any actions the United States Supreme Court might take limiting abortion rights.

    https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/07/26/north-carolina-and-florida-become-southern-abortion-havens

    In early June, Planned Parenthood and individual abortion providers in Florida sued the state in circuit court, arguing that its 15-week abortion ban violated the 1980 amendment. In 1989, the state Supreme Court cited the clause when it struck down a law requiring a pregnant minor to get the consent of a parent before receiving an abortion.

    A 2012 ballot measure that would have removed the privacy amendment and would have approved a ban on state funding for abortion was defeated by 55% of voters.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  94. * The same thing (people voting down an amendment that in principle should have passed) happened in a Florida referendum in 2012, that sought to overturn a 1989 Florida Supreme Court decision that said a state constitutional amendment

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  95. asset (30c122) — 8/3/2022 @ 1:42 pm

    as 2/3 of arizonians are pro choice

    Then their state legislators should be in trouble. Are they?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  96. @94 Typical right to life ignorance. The other side is stupid says the loser. Most voters who have registered to vote since roe decision are women who no damn well what they are voting for! They are not the ignorant ones.

    asset (30c122)

  97. While I’m not a fan of polticising election management via the Secretary of State offices around the country, I’m a little put off by the conceit that this is only happening now, and only something the GOP does.

    Kamala Harris, as CA’s Attorney General, served as a gatekeeper and manager of initiatives and initiative petitions, and was blatantly political in that regard. Her job was to title initiatives and provide the ballot line summary, and she did this with extreme bias.

    An initiative to reduce taxes was titled and presented as an initiative to “reduce services.”

    An initiative to reform state pensions was titled “Reduces pensions for public employees.”

    And the practice continues in CA.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  98. Maybe the difference is that in Louisiana it’s not called a primary?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  99. @94: I have no doubt that the bit-between-the-teeth behavior of GOP legislatures, not to mention the automatic activation of laws passed when it was just poltical posturing, moved Kansans to keep the restriction “in” the Constitution.

    Note that this is a general problem with court rulings that insert words into statutes of constitutions. Since they are not really there, they are damn hard to repeal. Attempts to do so generally come off as blanket changes and engender a great deal of worry about the extent the change would have. Probably the best approach is to pass an “amendment” that simply states that the particular rule that the Court expounded is nonsense and void. But even then, people will be concerned on the margins.

    In any event, this vote should not be viewed as an endorsement of second-trimester elective abortions, but as a repudiation of the absolutist bans taking effect in other states. Something I think will be expressed in November in some of those statehouses.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  100. asset, do you really think that most people, even most women, think that an elective D&E abortion in the 2nd trimester is OK? Polls have always said that people disfavor abortion after the 1st trimester.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  101. > An initiative to reform state pensions was titled “Reduces pensions for public employees.”

    that seems completely reasonable to me — every pension reform plan i’ve ever seen depends on decreasing pension benefits for new employees compared with current benefits, and a lot of them change the rules in such a way that benefits are reduced for current employees, too.

    i’d even argue that, given a reform proposal which reduces benefits, *not* openly declaring the reduction in the ballot title is manipulative.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  102. The California jungle primary (and the blanket primary we had before that, until the supreme court made us stop) was designed to solve a different problem: the democrats and republicans in the legislature couldn’t work with each other because they were each, in effect, elected by their respective party primaries (because so much of the state is effectively one party at the local level). Allowing the #2 finisher in the effectively-one-party local legislative primary to go to the general would let their supporters band together with the other party’s voters to elect the more moderate person from the locally dominant party.

    It seems to have worked for the state legislature. For statewide office, though, I think we should reconsider it, because it doesn’t seem to be having the same effect there.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  103. > Is Kari Lake pulling into the lead as additional ballots get counted overnight one of those things that Kari Lake would question as corrupt if she wasn’t the beneficiary of it?

    of course it is.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  104. 85, dat boy (Watkins) don’t look all the way white, deal breaker with of those AZ republican party voters.

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  105. Trump still holds sway in GOP as MAGA candidates win in key primary races

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/03/trump-still-holds-sway-in-gop-as-maga-candidates-win-in-key-primary-races.html

    DCSCA (6fe35f)

  106. On all fours, and I mean it in the other sense as well as that it is on-topic, Putin-lover, Trump-lover, election-denier, and Missouri pol, Josh Hawley was the only Senator (95-1) to vote against admitting Sweden and Finland into NATO.

    nk (f8f139)

  107. that seems completely reasonable to me — every pension reform plan i’ve ever seen depends on decreasing pension benefits for new employees compared with current benefits, and a lot of them change the rules in such a way that benefits are reduced for current employees, too.

    They change the way that benefits from FUTURE work is calculated, not benefits from past work. Let’s say that a rule is that $1/hour of your work goes into your personal retirement account. They change that to be 90 cents/hour. That doesn’t affect your past work at all.

    To say that a reform (presumably of an unsustainable system) cannot reduce anyone’s FUTURE benefits is to outlaw reform. The current (judge-created) CA rule that demand that employees get the highest pension from any rule ever in effect is patent nonsense. See above with my general issue with judge-created law.

    See here for the Kamala Harris issue:

    https://ballotpedia.org/Attorney_General_Kamala_Harris_comes_under_fire_for_ballot_title_bias

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  108. Here’s the basic problem with judge-created law couched as a constitutional principle:

    Normal laws:

    Legislature holds hearings, gets input from citizens, discusses among themselves and passes a law.

    The executive signs it, or vetoes it. IF vetoed the legislature needs to override, or fix it so it can be signed.

    Once passed, the courts can review the law if asked. The legislature can repeal it. In states with th referendum and initiative the citizens can petition and possibly block or repeal it.

    Check -and-balance score: High. Multiple actors, with multiple perspectives need to agree.

    Judge-created law, couched as a constitutional principle:

    Higher courts can review it, assuming there ARE higher courts.

    The legislature cannot repeal it. They may be able to amend the constitution, but unless there is a definite clause in the Constitution to amend (as opposed to a vague penumbra, this can be difficult and any amendment may be broader than anyone wants.

    The people cannot use the referendum and the initiative has the same problems the legislature has.

    The Executive has no role.

    Check-and-balance score: Low. Only the ability of the executive and legislature to change the court can redress.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  109. https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/peter-meijer-lost-his-race-democrats-lost-their-moral-high-ground/

    “If you let Republicans back in power, it is going to be those MAGA Republicans who want to take away your rights, your benefits, and your freedoms, and we need to stop it,” said congressman Sean Maloney (D., N.Y.) on MSNBC’s Morning Joe. The day Maloney appeared on TV to call upon Americans to “stop” Republican extremists was the very same day the DCCC started its advertising campaign in west Michigan to help Gibbs, which Maloney, as the committee’s chair, green-lit.”

    In other words, we’re going to stop the MAGA Republicans by running an ad helpful to the MAGA candidate (Gibbs).

    I was going to say that Maloney is full of baloney, but that would be too kind.

    This is Trump-level disingenuity.

    norcal (da5491)

  110. Hold the pickle hold the lettuce
    When yer votin’ don’t forget us
    All we ask is that you let us ruin this land

    https://youtu.be/ZTX1LDOhP28

    Colonel Haiku (e6e035)

  111. She’s stepping up to the Next Level… right, norcal?

    Colonel Haiku (e6e035)

  112. @112 She?

    norcal (da5491)

  113. New post up re Josh Hawley’s no vote.

    Dana (1225fc)

  114. There’s lots of nuances, norcal. The leadership of the House Republican caucus are all Trump vassals. Why send them a trust fund baby Congressmanning in his spare time, who might or might not remain lukewarm, if you can send a Democrat to Pelosi instead?

    nk (a2f007)

  115. Kevin – people who have worked for thirty years with the promise that they will receive [x] after thirty-two years, and who have kept their end of the bargain, have a vested interest in the completion of the bargain by the people they bargained with. If the counterparty suddenly changes the terms of the bargain, it’s a breach of contract, and the people who have kept their part of the bargain for the majority of their adult lives are entitled to restitution.

    If those people had *known* the state was going to change the terms at the last minute, they would have made different choices for the last thirty years. They made the choices they did because their employer made them certain promises, and they are entitled to hold their employer to those promises.

    aphrael (89debc)

  116. If the counterparty suddenly changes the terms of the bargain, it’s a breach of contract, and the people who have kept their part of the bargain for the majority of their adult lives are entitled to restitution.
    aphrael (89debc) — 8/3/2022 @ 8:22 pm

    ridiculous

    the terms of the “bargain” have changed multiple times, see for example the massive pension expansion in 1999

    apparently the terms can only change if it benefits pension recipients, not those paying for it

    as for the people they “bargained” with, virtually all of them are themselves pension recipients, whether it’s members of the pension board or legislators

    JF (a6d404)

  117. @96 Pro choice republican women will vote for choice on ballot not democrats. Ever here of gerrymandering? All the minority democrats are put in two districts. az senate is 14D 16R.

    asset (d89ad9)

  118. @101 rethuglicans can word it that way if they dare put it on the ballot ;but after kansas vote they will be to afraid.

    asset (d89ad9)

  119. The songbird, flake era are over. Congrats to the Arizona voters.

    mg (8cbc69)

  120. Unless her Wikipedia biography is seriously incomplete, Kari Lake has never held an elected office, or an executive position of any kind.

    And she is unlikely to attract intelligent and talented people to help her, should she become governor.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  121. JF — again, people have made decisions over the course of a lifetime to give up other opportunities based on the promise of certain future compensation in exchange for present day work.

    The organization which has reaped the benefit of that work has a moral obligation to fulfill the promise. Failure to do so f*cks over the people who have put in work for decades on the basis of the now broken promise, and it is in essence an employer stealing from its workers.

    aphrael (b9c76f)

  122. Aphrael,

    when it’s the state robbing taxpayers to give largess to a favored constituency, some redress is in order.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  123. aphrael (b9c76f) — 8/4/2022 @ 8:28 am

    then give them what they were promised when they joined, and none of the expanded benefits since

    that won’t happen, of course, cuz it’s not about broken promises

    you have a system where pension recipients decide what pension recipients get, so it’s ridiculous to frame it as a typical employer/employee scenario with contractual obligations

    it’s systematically corrupt, with predictably corrupt outcomes, which we’ve seen play out

    the 1999 expansion was in response to the dotcom boom, when state employees saw private workers making bank, so they wanted some of their own

    they could’ve jumped to the private sector and gotten that, but they didn’t, and instead got it through the taxpayer

    then, when the dotcom bust happened, they saw none of the downside and still haven’t

    screw that bullcrap

    JF (a6d404)

  124. screwed up the formatting but you get the point

    JF (a6d404)

  125. what i’m hearing you say, JF, is this: long-term employees have no right to expect to get what they were promised, and if they trusted the promises which were made to them, they are simply fools who should have known better — or, worse, bad people who deliberately manipulated the system to extract promises they didn’t deserve.

    this attitude is one of the biggest reasons liberals think conservatives don’t care about working people.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  126. norcal (da5491) — 8/3/2022 @ 5:29 pm

    we’re going to stop the MAGA Republicans by running an ad helpful to the MAGA candidate (Gibbs).

    The Democratic Governors Association and other similar groups are not so much trying to STOP MAGA candidates as they’re trying to scare people into voting only for Democrats. They don’t want a strong alternative party that people will feel comfortable voting for.

    The New York Times ran an editorial against this strategy today: (they’re a newspaper – they can say that, although, as usual, they don’t have any recommended course of action except to say those people shouldn’t be doing that, like they’ll take instruction from the New York Times, while also, typically, arguing it’s and it’s against their self-interest.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/03/opinion/meijer-trump-candidates.html

    A Cynical Low for the Democratic Party

    …So it is deeply troubling to see Mr. Cooper and the organization he heads — the Democratic Governors Association — support and finance a cynical political strategy to support pro-Trump candidates in Republican primaries, on the theory that they would be easier for Democrats to beat in the fall general election.

    Anyone who proclaims concern about the future of democracy shouldn’t come within a whiff of these democracy-denying candidates, let alone help them win votes. But Mr. Cooper and other Democratic Party groups have been elevating Big Lie proponents over their moderate Republican opponents all year, making a mockery of the American political system.

    It is a terrible approach on two counts. First, it’s profoundly irresponsible: What if these election deniers actually win? And second, if Democrats believe that democracy is in danger and they need Republican support to save it — or at least a reality-based G.O.P. in our two-party system — then they have weakened their standing as defenders of democracy by aligning with those who would thwart it.
    [only to those who understand]

    The Democratic governors are not alone in their cynicism. In Michigan, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee bought a television ad highlighting the close relationship between Mr. Trump and a pro-Trumper named John Gibbs who was seeking to oust a popular moderate, Representative Peter Meijer. Mr. Meijer was among the handful of Republicans who voted to impeach Mr. Trump following the Capitol insurrection.

    The basic playbook goes like this: On their face, the ads and mailers — the ad in Michigan reminds voters that Mr. Gibbs was “handpicked” by Mr. Trump — are framed as an attack and a warning…. [But they know it works as an endorsement for particular Republican primary voters]

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  127. And the MAGA people and right wing talk radio, by the way, are aiming for the same thing about another group of voters – getting more people to feel that way about the Democratic Party, that all Democrats are unacceptable, although they have different grounds for saying the alternative party is no good – many false, but some true, and when they are true, truer of a higher percentage of candidates in the Democratic Party, or covering a wider range of issues, than is the case with the Republican Party.

    I mean, so many are pro-crime or won’t do anything about it, and they really are.

    You almost have to decide where the particular wrongness matters and where it is outweighed by where the other party is wrong — this requires a good knowledge of civics and practical politics, and legislating, and an assessment of character..

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  128. norcal

    This is Trump-level disingenuity

    No, somewhat less. But it is a more entrenched problem. And they misdescribe what Trump did.

    Trump made numerous unfounded election fraud claims – in fat laid the groundwork for it before the election – and he talked about it in a way that he had to know was false (everybody did not know it) pressured state officials to report votes his way, and to support his claims, tried to change personnel at the Department of Justice so they would do that also (he stopped because of the prospect of mass resignations) tried to get Vice President Mike Pence, in support of a lie, to do something that he had no authority to do, but he did not whip his supporters into a frenzy or plan the storming of the Capitol and I think Alex Jones’s text messages will show that. Maybe Alex Jones knew something, but Trump didn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  129. You got it, Sammy.

    I’ve been a political junkie since I was a young man, but it wasn’t until the past few years (I’m in my 50s) that I began to see things more clearly. Both sides use any wedge issue they can to add more voters to their side.

    A prime example of this is voting. One side says that elections need more safeguards. The other side says that is a ploy to make it harder for certain people to vote.

    And on and on.

    Both sides are car salesmen, and one must look beyond the pitches to get at the truth. Smoke and mirrors are ubiquitous.

    The biggest doofuses are the people at the political conventions, holding signs and acting like they are on the side of all righteousness.

    norcal (da5491)

  130. Nor did Trump refuse to commit to a peaceful transfer of power as the New York Times editorial says – he refused to commit to a transfer of power altogether until after January 6. Then he wanted to say it would be peaceful but someone involved with helping him draft a statement said that that ship had sailed and he could only say “orderly” transfer of power.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/full-jan-6-committee-hearing-day-8-transcript

    <b< Adam Kinzinger: (02:04:26)

    Well after three in the morning, Congress certified the 2020 election results. Soon after this statement by President Trump was posted on Dan Scavino’s Twitter account because the President’s account by now had been suspended. As you can see, President Trump stuck with his big lie that the election was stolen. But, he did say there would be an orderly transition. We learned though that the statement was not necessarily his idea. Jason Miller, a campaign advisor, told us that after the joint session started, he heard nothing from President Trump or the White House about assuring the Nation that the transfer of power would take place. So, Mr. Miller took it upon himself to draft the statement and called the President at 9:23 that night to convince him to put it out. Let’s listen to what he had to say about the call.

    Speaker 28: (02:05:19)

    Did he disagree with something that you had put in the statement, some particular word or phrase that he did not want included?

    Jason Miller: (02:05:27)

    I’d say just that he wanted to say, “peaceful transition.” I said that ship’s kind of already sailed so we’re going to say orderly transition. That was about the extent of disagreement or push back from the conversation.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  131. aphrael (4c4719) — 8/4/2022 @ 9:35 am

    they made promises to themselves — so what?

    even in crazy nut job oregon, they’ve reformed the system such that half the pension board is from the private sector

    this, after years of pension recipients giving themselves promises that bankrupted the pension fund, which is always the outcome under these corrupt systems

    the board should be 100% from the private sector, but fine

    state employees are a subset of working people, so don’t pat yourself on the back too hard, and it’s the only subset libs care about cuz of how they vote and cuz more of them means more government

    JF (a6d404)

  132. Okay. Here’s a proposal that maybe JF and aphrael can support.

    Reform the pension system only for new hires. That way, no promises will be broken. Fair?

    norcal (da5491)

  133. norcal (da5491) — 8/4/2022 @ 3:16 pm

    nope, how about this instead:
    reform the pension system such that it’s not woefully in debt, without raising already astronomical tax rates, and make it sustainable going forward for new hires

    and pension boards should have zero members who receive pensions

    state jobs have always been known as a trade off of pay for job security, while private sector is the opposite

    if you didn’t know that going in, don’t expect the taxpayer to subsidize your ignorance

    JF (a6d404)

  134. Neconning Nepotism: is that light saber loaded, Darth? Always amusing when somebody who nearly shot somebody’s face off starts shooting his own face off– and firing blanks:

    Dick Cheney Slings Personal Insults at Donald Trump in Last-Minute Attack Ad for Daughter Liz

    Former Vice President Dick Cheney unleashed a series of dramatic attacks against former President Donald Trump in a Thursday campaign ad for his daughter, Rep. Liz Cheney. Cheney accused Trump of being a “coward,” citing the former President’s litigation against the outcome of the 2020 election.

    Cheney called Trump the greatest individual threat to the United States in the nation’s 246-year history, assigning him a distinction usually reserved for the likes of Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Laden and Emperor Hirohito. “He is a coward. [Coward? Cheney obtained five deferments during Vietnam]… A real man wouldn’t lie to his supporters,” said the 81-year-old Dick Cheney. “He lost his election, and he lost big.” Dick Cheney had supported Trump for president in 2016. He went on to criticize Trump’s foreign policy, according to Politico.

    Liz Cheney didn’t turn decisively against Trump until after the 2020 election. Dick Cheney played a key role in instigating the 2003 Iraq War, a conflict today considered one of the worst foreign policy blunders in American history. As George W. Bush’s Vice President, Cheney falsely claimed that Saddam Hussein’s government actively possessed weapons of mass destruction, according to Newsweek. That claim formed the basis of the 2003 invasion. The conflict resulted in the deaths of thousands of American service members and many more Iraqis. [AKA, NEOCONNED!]

    Instability in the Middle East after the American withdrawal from Iraq led to the rise of the Islamic State, a jihadist terrorist group that played a role in the exodus of Christians and other minorities from the region. Cheney has never apologized for his role in the Iraq War. Dick Cheney claimed that his daughter would prevail in her Aug. 16. primary. [He also claimed we’d be greeted as “liberators”]… “Liz is fearless. [So fearless, in desperation, begged Daddy Darth for help…] She never backs down from the fight [just cries for help from you to do battle.] There is nothing more important she will ever do than lead the effort to make sure Donald Trump is never again near the Oval Office.” “And she will succeed.” [You expect her to follow your lead and go hunting with The Donald, Daddy Darth??]

    Polling shows the younger Cheney trailing her Trump-endorsed primary challenger by massive margins.’

    https://www.westernjournal.com/dick-cheney-slings-personal-insults-donald-trump-last-minute-attack-ad-daughter-liz/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaej_HbaqZU

    “So”… BTW, Dick: ‘We’re all out of corn flakes. F.U.” – Oscar Madison [Walter Matthau] ‘The Odd Couple’ 1968

    DCSCA (94e3e4)

  135. RE: pension system.’

    There are a bunch of tiers in New York State (because of a state constitutional requirement that, once earned, pensions cannot be reduced.)

    https://www.osc.state.ny.us/retirement/members/what-tier-are-you

    There are six tiers in the Employees’ Retirement System (ERS) and five in the Police and Fire Retirement System (PFRS)…

    ou are in: If you joined:
    Tier 1 before July 1, 1973
    Tier 2 July 1, 1973 through July 26, 1976
    Tier 3 July 27, 1976 through August 31, 1983
    Tier 4 September 1, 1983 through December 31, 2009
    Tier 5 January 1, 2010 through March 31, 2012
    Tier 6 April 1, 2012 or after

    There are no Tier 4 New York State correction officers. Those who joined July 27, 1976 through December 31, 2009 are Tier 3 members.

    If you are a PFRS Member…
    You are in: If you joined:
    Tier 1 before July 31, 1973
    Tier 2 July 31, 1973 through June 30, 2009
    Tier 3 July 1, 2009 through January 8, 2010*
    Tier 5 January 9, 2010 through March 31, 2012
    Tier 6 April 1, 2012 or after

    *PFRS members who joined July 1, 2009 through January 8, 2010 and did not elect to be covered by Article 22 (opt into Tier 5), can be covered by Article 11 or Article 14 benefits, depending on their retirement plan election.

    A sometimes advocated pension reform is “defined contribution” instead of “defined benefit”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  136. The last sentence, starting with: “A sometimes advocated pension reform..” is mine – I didn’t end the blockquote.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  137. Good news.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/4/2022 @ 9:11 pm

    For election gaslighters

    norcal (da5491)

  138. Disappointing response norcal. Devoid of content.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  139. AP declares kari lake winner in gov. race. Despite pinal county corruption in sabotaging lake voters. Democrats 2022 slogan vote democrat or use a coat hanger!

    asset (766b98)

  140. @140 Okay. I’ll expound. Candidates who get Trump’s support will be expected to support Trump’s Big Lie about having the 2020 election “stolen” from him. If Trump runs again, they’ll be expected to support Trump’s future claims of fraud (we all know he’ll make them), and throw their support behind an alternate slate of electors.

    If that succeeds, we won’t have our republic anymore.

    You see, Trump fails on the most important policy of all, which is acknowledging election results. Trump enjoys calling other people losers too much to ever admit defeat, even if he destroys the country in the process.

    norcal (da5491)

  141. What the GOP primaries tell me is that people are still very angry. People didn’t vote for them because Trump told them to, the voted for them because they are still very angry and Trump told them that these candidates would carry their message.

    As much fun as it is to tweak the stolen-election thing, the real issue is “why are these people so angry?” If they weren’t angry the stolen-election meme wouldn’t resonate so.

    And, on the other side, they’re angry too. And not just Roe. I’m sure that asset can tell us.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  142. Kevin – people who have worked for thirty years with the promise that they will receive [x] after thirty-two years, and who have kept their end of the bargain, have a vested interest in the completion of the bargain by the people they bargained with. If the counterparty suddenly changes the terms of the bargain, it’s a breach of contract, and the people who have kept their part of the bargain for the majority of their adult lives are entitled to restitution./

    NO, IT ISN’T. So, they plan to retire in two years with a 90% of salary pension. The state comes along and says, we’re going to change things going forward. From now on it will be 80% of salary, pro-rated. So, if the retire in 2 years they get

    90% * (30/32) + 80% * (2/32) or 89.375% of salary. If this is too much of a drop, they can take whatever the get at 30 years and quit now.

    No, if the state said, you’re out of luck, it will be a flat 80%, yes that would be a breach. But that’s not what these reforms are.

    If those people had *known* the state was going to change the terms at the last minute, they would have made different choices for the last thirty years. They made the choices they did because their employer made them certain promises, and they are entitled to hold their employer to those promises.

    Yes, cheated out of 0.675% of their final salary is cause for revolution!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  143. Fixing for clarity

    Kevin – people who have worked for thirty years with the promise that they will receive [x] after thirty-two years, and who have kept their end of the bargain, have a vested interest in the completion of the bargain by the people they bargained with. If the counterparty suddenly changes the terms of the bargain, it’s a breach of contract, and the people who have kept their part of the bargain for the majority of their adult lives are entitled to restitution./

    NO, IT ISN’T. So, they plan to retire in two years with a 90% of salary pension. The state comes along and says, we’re going to change things going forward. From now on it will be 80% of salary, pro-rated. So, if the retire in 2 years they get

    90% * (30/32) + 80% * (2/32) or 89.375% of salary. If this is too much of a drop, they can take whatever the get at 30 years and quit now.

    No, if the state said, you’re out of luck, it will be a flat 80%, yes that would be a breach. But that’s not what these reforms are.

    If those people had *known* the state was going to change the terms at the last minute, they would have made different choices for the last thirty years. They made the choices they did because their employer made them certain promises, and they are entitled to hold their employer to those promises.

    Yes, cheated out of 0.675% of their final salary is cause for revolution!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  144. Voters have always been angry, but now, thanks to social media, they find like minds and reinforce their anger. Politicians try to tap into it, and voila, you have BLM and Antifa riots on the one hand, and J6 riots on the other.

    People throwing tantrums should not be indulged on either side.

    norcal (da5491)

  145. There are a bunch of tiers in New York State (because of a state constitutional requirement that, once earned, pensions cannot be reduced.)

    Sammy, that doesn’t mean what you think it means. With tiers, it means that once you are PROMISED a pension, that PROMISE is ironclad for your working life. It has nothing to do with what has been EARNED as future work is grandfathered in.

    Systems like this mean that ANY reform has a delay of about 30 years before any savings are seen, and if the system was unsustainable, it will probably go broke before those savings show up. If you’re lucky the older workers will get all their pensions and THEN it will go broke.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  146. Aphrael,

    Suppose they passed a 50% windfall pension tax on pensions over, or $50,000 a year (about the maximum for a couple on Social Security).?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  147. Voters have always been angry, but now, thanks to social media, they find like minds and reinforce their anger. Politicians try to tap into it, and voila, you have BLM and Antifa riots on the one hand, and J6 riots on the other.

    I’ve said before that if airlines ran ads like politicians do, no one would ever get on a plane.

    e.g. [graphic photo of plane wreck, with burned Raggedy-Ann doll in foreground]

    “This is what happens when you fly Delta. Don’t take chances with your loved ones. Fly the friendly skies of United!”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  148. @146. They have every right to be pissed; this has been simmering for 35 years.

    Storm. The. Castle.

    DCSCA (3a3072)

  149. Well I can tell you what I’m mad about. I have two degrees and two professional certifications and I get further and further behind every year because salaries don’t keep up with inflation even in good years. If I didn’t already own a house I couldn’t buy one. I save more than 25% of my salary every month and it will never amount to more than 250,000, even though I’ve been saving and investing for almost 20 years at this point, so it’s a good thing I have that pension that y’all want to take away. Rich people and corporations keep making more and more profits and are never content with enough and whine if there is even a tiny bit of interference. The party of personal responsibility seems to think the only people who need to be responsible are the one who don’t have two nickles to rub together to be responsible with and women who are sexually active. The party of the government will help take care of people only seems to care about taking care of the people who aren’t people at all and are actually corporations. Some crazy person might come kill me because they are nuts and their family members don’t understand that one of the responsibilities of owning a gun is knowing that sometimes you shouldn’t own a gun. If I lived in a red state some dickheads think that I should need to pee on a stick every time I needed to leave the state for the crime of being an adult woman who hasn’t hit menopause yet. Random idiots on the internet call me a groomer because Christopher Rufo has a hard-on for destroying the entire public school system and intends to do so by making up horrible lies and faking up “evidence” to scare parents. And far far far too many people think that the best use of their time is to scream about whether or not any of us have put our pronoun in our online profile and which ones we are or are not using, even though it only actually affects < 1% of the population.

    Goddammit, I just want to live my life without being hassled by people who believe that I should live their religious beliefs and do my job without being hassled by people listening to clever liars and earn enough money to pay off my house and retire comfortably some day.

    Nic (896fdf)

  150. @143 Our federal system barely works for the wealthy establishment and certain special interest groups who can buy their politicians in both parties. That is why white working class populists in the republican party thru the tea party and then populist trump took over the republican party from bush and romney who only represented the wealthy elites who believe in free trade and immigration. They gave in on social issues not economic issues to get the ignorant white trash former democrats to vote for them. States can be taken over more easily because their senates are not the same as the federal senate with almost know fillibuster. Democrat party is different as different groups band together for mutual protection. Unions and anti war/pro environmental groups only have in common their hatred of conservatives. The same with blacks and gays. Latinx and pro choice upper middle class white women. I could go on. They are together in their hatred of conservatives. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. This is why will rogers said I’m a member of no organized political party I am a democrat! AOC and joe manchin are both democrats.

    asset (e2bc62)

  151. Hey Lizz and Dick-
    How many American soldiers died in Iraq, DICK?
    How many WMD’s did you find in Iraq, DICK?
    How many trillions did Iraq cost us, DICK?
    How many congressional seats did we lose, DICK?
    How is the “Patriot Act” working out against Patriots, DICK?

    I think its safe for me to speak for Patriots that we can’t wait to crush your piszant spawn out of her House seat.

    mg (8cbc69)

  152. McConnell doth protest too much. Each year, he agrees to raise the debt ceiling to authorize every dollar the socialists want to spend. His position is that the government shutdown which would result from denying the Democrats a blank check is the worst possible scenario. Worse than hyperinflation. Worse than national default. Worse than a Zombie Apocalypse.
    Perhaps not coincidentally, that is exactly the same position held by Turtle’s corporate welfare queen paymasters in the Chamber of Commerce. Those rapacious miscreants have given him hundreds of millions of dollars to kneecap fiscally conservative GOP senatorial primary candidates like Lisa Murkowski’s opponent. As a result, the Republican senate cohort largely consists of big government RINOs along with those (very) few conservatives like Cruz and Paul who survived Mitchy’s smear campaigns.

    McConnell’s fingerprints are all over the $30.6 trillion national debt, nk.

    mg (8cbc69)

  153. As much fun as it is to tweak the stolen-election thing, the real issue is “why are these people so angry?” If they weren’t angry the stolen-election meme wouldn’t resonate so.

    Painful hemorrhoids. It happens to assholes.

    Come on, man! We make fun of “wokes” and “Millennials” and “Gen whatevers” and their “feelings” like their brain amygdala (that’s where feelings come from) are any different from those of “racists” and “homophobes” and “cisheteropatriarchal capitalist colonizers”.

    We have a bunch of assholes who have had it too good for too long. If they worried a little bit more about where their next meal was coming from or where they were going to sleep tonight, they wouldn’t have as much time to be “angry”.

    And what they have in common is that they’re assholes.

    nk (cf70e2)

  154. DCCCP: “Storm. The. Castle.”

    It’s predictable that an unapologetic Russian sympathizer would advocate for violence, insurrection, the abandonment of democracy, and, ultimately, the installation of a jack-boot authoritarian.

    He wants the country to rip itself apart. Do you?

    AJ_Liberty (dfbf73)

  155. Well I can tell you what I’m mad about. I have two degrees and two professional certifications and I get further and further behind every year because salaries don’t keep up with inflation even in good years.

    You have 2 pieces of paper and two credentials you paid a lot of money for. If you aren’t getting paid commiserate to what you believe they are worth, then find a new job or realize you got swindled for those pieces of paper.

    If I didn’t already own a house I couldn’t buy one.

    Property is a finite asset. Government gave people “free money” with subsidized loans and artificially low rates that drove up the costs of homes. Leftist activist corps like Blackrock drove the cost up further by buying huge blocks of property for well over their value and refusing to put them back on the market. Renter class society.

    I save more than 25% of my salary every month and it will never amount to more than 250,000, even though I’ve been saving and investing for almost 20 years at this point, so it’s a good thing I have that pension that y’all want to take away.

    Mathematically not possible unless you’ve been “saving” into a checking account.

    Rich people and corporations keep making more and more profits and are never content with enough and whine if there is even a tiny bit of interference. The party of personal responsibility seems to think the only people who need to be responsible are the one who don’t have two nickles to rub together to be responsible with and women who are sexually active. The party of the government will help take care of people only seems to care about taking care of the people who aren’t people at all and are actually corporations. Some crazy person might come kill me because they are nuts and their family members don’t understand that one of the responsibilities of owning a gun is knowing that sometimes you shouldn’t own a gun. If I lived in a red state some dickheads think that I should need to pee on a stick every time I needed to leave the state for the crime of being an adult woman who hasn’t hit menopause yet. Random idiots on the internet call me a groomer because Christopher Rufo has a hard-on for destroying the entire public school system and intends to do so by making up horrible lies and faking up “evidence” to scare parents. And far far far too many people think that the best use of their time is to scream about whether or not any of us have put our pronoun in our online profile and which ones we are or are not using, even though it only actually affects < 1% of the population.

    Lots of straw there. Lots of hate towards Christians. You live in California, your socialist paradise. Yet you’re unhappy. No Christian is affecting your life in the slightest. An illegal gun is easier to get in California than a legal one. Leftist prosecutors keep putting violent criminals back on the streets.

    Chris Rufo is doing a service to expose the type of indoctrination going on in public schools. If he was exposing the Catholic Church you’d be applauding him and he’d win a Pulitzer.

    Goddammit, I just want to live my life without being hassled by people who believe that I should live their religious beliefs and do my job without being hassled by people listening to clever liars and earn enough money to pay off my house and retire comfortably some day.

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/5/2022 @ 12:17 am

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  156. Forgot to format the last line, but that’s what everyone wishes for. Yet leftist policies make the American dream more distant by taking away more of our own earnings through taxes, whittling away the value of those earnings through inflation, and taking away our ability to do what we want with those earnings through regulation and controls.

    You loved the perpetual lockdowns, remember.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  157. Goddammit, I just want to live my life without being hassled by people who believe that I should live their religious beliefs and do my job without being hassled by people listening to clever liars and earn enough money to pay off my house and retire comfortably some day.

    You live in a monocultural state where everyone who is actually in power shares your political beliefs. If you’re actually getting hassled instead of just being a drama queen, it’s definitely not from your right flank.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  158. Nic, I hear they’re hiring in Texas

    JF (a6d404)

  159. “Voters have always been angry, but now, thanks to social media, they find like minds and reinforce their anger. Politicians try to tap into it, and voila, you have BLM and Antifa riots on the one hand, and J6 riots on the other.”

    Yeah, technology is making it easy to radicalize people with what amounts to propaganda. Anonymity and loose moderation makes it so there is little sanction for spreading bad information, hyperbole, and harsh personal attacks. Imagine what blog posting would be like if everyone had to sign their name and hometown. We’ve conditioned ourselves to act kind of bad and excuse it all as just being politics. As long as people make money off of it…..and no one calls people out….how will it ever improve?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  160. Nic, sucks that things aren’t going better for you. Teaching is an important job that get no where near the respect it deserves. I think what you want are what most people want and want most decent people think should be attainable with hard work and a bit of luck.

    Time123 (358efc)

  161. The cry of the voter is so often “leave me alone; let me do my thing in peace but that guy down the street — he’s got to change his ways or move to some other state.”

    It’s not an attitude conducive to peaceful or rational politics.

    Appalled (8cb7d9)

  162. Appalled, that’s because my cultural and policy preferences are clearly logical, obviously derived from god/natural law, and how this country was built.

    Their preferences are at best the views of a madman, probably a vile plot do destroy the country and raise the great old ones.

    Any argument on their part to the contrary is clearly being made in bad faith and probably motivated by bigotry on their part.

    /snark

    Time123 (a6774c)

  163. so it’s a good thing I have that pension that y’all want to take away.

    Who said anything about “taking it away”? If it goes away it will be because of unsustainable promises and open abuses (e.g. pension spiking) that drain the funds before you retire.

    It will also be because no one can reign in those abuses or correct the system in a way that is fair for those down the line.

    Things that can’t go on, won’t.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  164. If I didn’t already own a house I couldn’t buy one. I save more than 25% of my salary every month and it will never amount to more than 250,000, even though I’ve been saving and investing for almost 20 years at this point, so it’s a good thing I have that pension that y’all want to take away.

    Most people don’t HAVE a pension, other than Social Security, which will pay them rather less that your pension pays you.

    Most people have had the same luck investing that you have, although 20 years @ $1000 a month would easily top $250K just putting it into a savings account.

    As for a house … if you live in California you may end up doing what I did: cashing out your California privileges, paying cash for a better house somewhere else and having money left over. You cannot eat equity.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  165. They gave in on social issues not economic issues to get the ignorant white trash former democrats to vote for them.

    Kinda racist, asset. You’d see it more clearly if I dissed illiterate inner-city crackheads on welfare. Not that I would.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  166. He wants the country to rip itself apart. Do you?

    To be fair, I don’t see a lot of kumbaya from politicians of any stripe. Trump didn’t start the Us vs Them.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  167. Bought my first house with a interest rate of 14% back in the 70’s. Work a couple jobs, give up the membership to the club, you can do it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  168. Goddammit, I just want to live my life without being hassled by people who believe that I should live their religious beliefs…..

    The irony abounds in this statement.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  169. #168 In support of your argument: For example, I was dismayed when Obama reached out to Al Sharpton, and made Sharpton an ally. (I understand the politics; at the time, Obama wanted to decrease the influence of Jesse Jackson, Sr. But you don’t choose Sharpton as an ally if you want people to get along better.)

    (You could, I suppose, say that Obama’s team thought it would be better to have Sharpton inside the tent . . .)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  170. > corps like Blackrock drove the cost up further by buying huge blocks of property for well over their value and refusing to put them back on the market

    Of course. They can make massive amounts of money that way.

    *Many* leftists would like to address the situation by heavily taxing both vacant properties and non-resident-ownership of properties in urban areas, making the business model that is driving corporate purchases of property unsustainable.

    Of course, many leftists also oppose building new housing in cities, which is stupid.

    aphrael (c716fe)

  171. Nic–

    You are angry, but you neglect some things that insulate you from things other people are angry about.

    * You will never lose a job due to recession.
    * You will never lose a job because the company moved your job to China.
    * You will never lose a job due to the employer’s whims.
    * You will never lose a job because the company went broke.
    * You will never have to worry about losing your healthcare.
    * You will never see immigrants, legal or otherwise, undercut you for work.
    * You can expect to work where you do until full retirement.
    * You won’t be replaced at age 50 by a younger worker and be told to “Learn to code.”
    * You have regular work hours and adequate time off for family.

    There are a lot of people who have none of these things, even people with advanced degrees. Perhaps you should have some compassion for them, as they might be angry too, they might have less savings, less chance of owning a home, less chance of a stable family life. Here are a few reasons why Trump’s message resonates with the white working class:

    For white working-class men in their 30s and 40s—what should be the prime decades for working and raising a family—participation in the labor force dropped from 96% in 1968 to 79% in 2015. Over that same period, the portion of these men who were married dropped from 86% to 52%. (The numbers for nonwhite working-class males show declines as well, though not as steep and not as continuous.)

    https://www.aei.org/articles/trumps-america/

    There are systemic failures in America today, and there is no one cause and no single villain. Many people are angry. Blacks, working-class, men, women, civil servants, even professionals. The problem I see is that no one is addressing the causes for the anger, but instead feeding it for political advantage.

    This makes me angry.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  172. Watch the Lindsey Graham subplot carefully in the continuing drama, Georgia Does
    Donald Right:

    https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/08-4-2022/inside-the-georgia-2020-probe/

    Appalled (8cb7d9)

  173. >Bought my first house with a interest rate of 14% back in the 70’s. Work a couple jobs, give up the membership to the club, you can do it.

    That’s really not true given the current relationship between income and the price of housing.

    In the bay area, for example, the *down payment* for a house is *more than twice the average annual income*.

    Let the implications of that settle in.

    Now, maybe this is just a California problem, right? But in Dallas the average down payment is about 1.5x the average annual household income. In Denver, the average down payment is about 1x the average annual household income.

    There are places — St. Louis, for example — where the average down payment is significantly lower than the average annual household income. But they’re rare and getting rarer.

    aphrael (c716fe)

  174. @156. Royalist’s lament.

    Insure your podium!

    DCSCA (6be6a4)

  175. Note that “average annual income” here is *pre-tax*.

    aphrael (c716fe)

  176. @151. Ashli Babbitt would agree.

    Storm. The. Castle.

    DCSCA (6be6a4)

  177. @175

    There are places — St. Louis, for example — where the average down payment is significantly lower than the average annual household income. But they’re rare and getting rarer.

    aphrael (c716fe) — 8/5/2022 @ 10:43 am

    shush you… don’t spread it! We don’t want to turn into a Denver or Southern California!

    whembly (b770f8)

  178. Memphis may avoid the price run-up seen in Nashville and Glenn Reynoldstan, but for bad reasons:

    https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/politics/elections/2022/08/04/shelby-county-district-attorney-election-2022-steve-mulroy-amy-weirich/10162106002/

    urbanleftbehind (dad4cd)

  179. @173. Shorter: Reaganomics.

    The wreckage from that disaster remains flotsam from sea to shining sea.

    DCSCA (6be6a4)

  180. @Rob@157 “Mathematically not possible unless you’ve been “saving” into a checking account.”

    Rob, how much do you think I make in a month? After almost 20 years, I net abt $50,000 a year. When I started working in education I was paying almost half my salary for a one bedroom apartment and my dad had to cosign for me.

    Lots of hate towards Christians.

    Nope. First, anger and hate aren’t the same. Second, most Christians aren’t the kind that want to force non-fundamentalists to live as Christian fundamentalism. I realize your definition of Christian is very narrow, but that isn’t the commonly understood definition.

    Chris Rufo is doing a service to expose the type of indoctrination going on in public schools.

    He’s a lying fraudster. People get taken in by him because he makes extremely bad faith interpretations, misuses language in order to imply things are happening that aren’t, and fakes up “evidence”.

    If he was exposing the Catholic Church you’d be applauding him and he’d win a Pulitzer.

    I am in fact Catholic. It’s painful when something comes out where the Church has committed harm or greed rather than charity. If he were telling the same lies about Catholicism that he tells about education, I’d be equally angry about it.

    You loved the perpetual lockdowns, remember.

    I see that you can’t tell the difference between “loved” and “didn’t want to be killed by Covid due to working with hundreds of teenagers who don’t understand personal space”. I was fine once we were able to all get vaccinated.

    @FWO@159 You live in a monocultural state. If you’re actually getting hassled instead of just being a drama queen, it’s definitely not from your right flank.

    Er, no. I realize that’s the perception of CA, but it isn’t actually true. I live in a majority Democratic state, yes, but there is a hefty non-liberal population as well, the CA republican party had just abysmally failed to actualize it most of the time. I don’t live in the bay area. The hassling comes from both the left and the right, I have an equal opportunity mad about it (your precious non-binary child is very sweet most of the time, but if they are doing Dumb Thing in the halls between classes and a teacher they don’t even have calls them “young man” when telling them to stop, your kid is not going to be traumatized for life and expecting psychic knowledge is unreasonable).

    @JF@160 Nic, I hear they’re hiring in Texas

    1. The economic problem isn’t any better there.
    2. You can’t carry your certification from state to state, except in limited circumstances. I would have to go back to school for 1-2 years to re-certify there.
    3. I am very against living with tornadoes and humidity. I’ve done it, it sucks.
    4. Their energy system has clearly terrible and they aren’t making it any better.
    5. They are deliberately making it harder to work in education. I know a couple of people working in education there and they are v. unhappy with recent trends, but it’s where their family is and they have the same recredentialling problem that I do if I moved out of state.
    6. They are hiring in education everywhere. We haven’t produced enough teachers to fill in the positions for all the boomers who’ve retired over the last 10 years.

    @Time@162 Thanks, yes, I think most people would like to just live their lives.

    @Kevin@166

    Most people don’t HAVE a pension, other than Social Security, which will pay them rather less that your pension pays you.

    I can’t collect what I put into social security and if I could it would reduce my pension, even if had I put the same money into my pension plan that I currently do. It’s an either/or, not an and/too.

    although 20 years @ $1000 a month would easily top $250K just putting it into a savings account.

    As I said to Rob, “how much do you think I make?” Education salaries: Even in silicon valley they aren’t high.

    if you live in California you may end up doing what I did: cashing out your California privileges, paying cash for a better house somewhere else and having money left over

    I may end up doing that after I retire, I really like the Ashland/Medford OR area, but my parents are here and I live much closer to them than my brother does. They are healthy now, but are in their 70s and at some point will need help.

    @Kevin@173

    Actually educators can lose their job due to recession. I won’t at this point unless the district gets rid of the program I help run altogether, just because I’m very very senior in my position at this point, but I was the second to last who didn’t lose theirs in 2008.

    * You will never lose a job due to the employer’s whims.

    I’m a low level admin, so I’m at will, yes I can be fired.

    * You can expect to work where you do until full retirement.

    I can’t work anywhere else. My certification is good only for the state of CA and you can only carry your first seven years of experience between districts, so even if I only moved to a different district, I’d lose more than half of my career.

    Perhaps you should have some compassion for them,

    I do (mostly, I admit to impatience for the ones who make my life worse). I was giving you the reasons I’m angry.

    * You won’t be replaced at age 50 by a younger worker and be told to “Learn to code.”

    I can in fact code. The languages are out of date and I very much hate the job of coding, but I can. It’s useful for what I do, since the protocols for pulling data out of the back-end of our student data-base are based in coding structure. For a job in education, it’s fairly tech involved. Also, I could be replaced, I’m a very low level admin, which is at will, but my skill set is fairly unique and I’m quite good at my job, so I probably won’t be.

    @Rip@170 The irony abounds in this statement.

    Nope. We accommodate for Muslim kids and Pentecostal kids and Mormon kids. They get to live their values, they just can’t be mean to people living different ones.

    Nic (896fdf)

  181. Public employee pensions are a straightforward question of contract law. Is that the deal the government made when it hired the employee? Then that’s the deal it’s going to keep! And we don’t care what Trump would do!

    All that other stuff is welsher blather. Which is to say, Trump values.

    nk (0bcee0)

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