U.S. Attacks Kill Iranian General Soleimani [Updated]
[guest post by JVW]
UPDATE: The Pentagon has confirmed that it was a U.S. attack and that Gen. Soleimani is dead. I am changing the title of this post accordingly, from “U.S. Attacks Possibly Kill. . . ” to “U.S. Attacks Kill Iranian. . . .”
—- Original Post —-
At least three rockets were fired at Baghdad International Airport Friday killing at least seven people, including Iranian Gen. Qassim Soleimani, the head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ elite Quds Force, according to multiple reports early Friday.
Soleimani is the military mastermind whom Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had deemed equally as dangerous as Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who was killed in a strike by U.S.-led forces in October.
Soleimani was the long-running leader of the elite intelligence wing called Quds Force – which itself has been a designated terror group since 2007, and is estimated to be 20,000 strong. Considered one of the most powerful men in Iran, he was routinely referred to as the “shadow commander” or “spymaster.”
“Soleimani is our leader” had been photographed spray-painted on windows by Iran-backed militiamen at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.
The strike also killed Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the deputy commander of Iran-backed militias known as the Popular Mobilization Forces, three Iraqi officials told The Associated Press. Iraqi TV reported the deaths as well.
As usual with these events in that part of the world, there is all sorts of conflicting information. Iraqi security initially reported that the projectiles were Katyusha rockets, a Soviet-era model that is a favorite of Hezbollah, and that no deaths had resulted from the attack. At the same time, however, local media reported seeing U.S. attack helicopters flying near the Baghdad Airport at the time of the strike. And now acknowledgement of the deaths is apparently leaking out.
So maybe we’ll have a wartime President seeking reelection after all.
– JVW
It’s kind of funny how the Fox News report goes from writing about Gen. Soleimani in the present tense in the second paragraph to the past tense in the third paragraph.
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:12 pmWashington Post and others hardest hit.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:24 pmhttps://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/141604554855825408
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:27 pmWell Obama did fund them with billions of dollars to continue their terrorism throughout the world .
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:29 pmApparently only Fox is reporting America pulled off this assassination. The other cablers won’t commit until the Pentagon comments.
Now Orange Man good?
Oh. Right: “We’ll be greeted as liberators!”
Sleep well, America.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:36 pmMay he never rest in peace.
Seriously though, didn’t Bill Clinton hit a condom factory, or was it aspirin…
steveg (354706) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:46 pmConsidering how many hundreds of American servicemen were either killed or maimed by IEDs created and distributed by this POS… well, works for me!
B.A. DuBois (80f588) — 1/2/2020 @ 6:54 pmIn Bills case the condom wasn’t an empty gesture…
steveg (354706) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:00 pmHow much do you think I could get on ebay for a cryogenically preserved Bill Clinton loaded condom?
steveg (354706) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:02 pmThere really is a Trump tweet for every occasion!
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:06 pmWould like to think this is the beginning of a violent withdrawal, like Reagan bombing the daylights out of Lebanon on the way out. There’s nothing to be gained in war with Iran.
Bugg (ebf485) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:07 pmUPDATE: The Pentagon has confirmed that it was a U.S. attack and that Gen. Soleimani is dead. I am changing the title of this post accordingly, from “U.S. Attacks Possibly Kill. . . ” to “U.S. Attacks Kill Iranian. . . .”
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:17 pmAll this because of a film?
Munroe (dd6b64) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:19 pmWill it be the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, Slate, or the Huffington Post who first describes the late general as “an avid gardener and doting grandfather of eleven”?
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:21 pmGolly. Trump ordered the hit.
Gee, Nancy, assassination is a real crime. Howzabout an Article of impeachment for murder…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:31 pmGee, didn’t we make Baghdad- including their aerodrome- safe for democracy and Yankee Doodle Dandy types? A smarter move would have been to just grab the dude as a hostage and make a deal rather than off him.
So much for the art of the deal…
But then, Middle East types are better at bazaar bartering that than Americans, aren’t they.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:39 pm“Well Obama did fund them with billions of dollars to continue their terrorism throughout the world .”
That’s the complete opposite of what Trump is saying, but ok.
https://twitter.com/GoAngelo/status/1212938627279466503
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:39 pmJVW:
The Washington Post is already calling him “Iran’s most revered military leader”
Edoc118 (2faa81) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:43 pm“Oh. Right: “We’ll be greeted as liberators!””
Didn’t take long: https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1212930634315948033
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:44 pmA smarter move would have been to just grab the dude as a hostage and make a deal rather than off him.
Yeah, capturing terrorist-sponsoring generals alive over in their own part of the world is a piece of cake.
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:47 pmTrump was a bit obsessed with Obama doing exactly this. This is purely political.
https://twitter.com/ItsCanIampbell/status/1212943020980461568/photo/1
JRH (52aed3) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:50 pmThis sounds like a job for … Space Force!
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 7:53 pmWe’re worrying about killing terrorists seven thousand miles away, while the country’s toilet-flushing crisis enters its second month.
So much for “America First”.
Where are our priorities?
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:01 pmHow soon they forget. No, Clinton did not bomb a condom factory during his impeachment. He bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. And more than 500 Serbian civilians — to death.
The killing of Soleimani was a very restrained and measured response to the attack on our embassy. Not to mention long overdue, and with the added bonus of no moustached pickle-biter on CBS nattering “the 247th day of siege of our embassy in Baghdad”.
Credit where credit is due.
nk (dbc370) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:05 pmJVW,
https://twitter.com/ComfortablySmug/status/1212908117903781888
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:09 pmhttps://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1212907536833220608
And here’s the original link before someone claims that it’s a fake post after shame causes the Washington Post to take it down.
This was what I was referencing in post #2.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:12 pmEdoc118 and NJRob — I guess the lesson is never bet against the Washington Post.
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:12 pmThis sounds like a job for … Space Force!
“Mr. Sulu, lock transporters on General Soleimani. On my signal, beam him up.”
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:13 pmThere are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers. You think our country is so innocent?
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:15 pmNo, no, no! That’s good, NJRob (and I’m not joking). If you’re going to retaliate for an attack on one of our embassies, you retaliate against somebody important. Not some goat-herder on an Afghani mountainside. Taking out a “revered military leader” sends a revered military message.
nk (dbc370) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:16 pmNk, I agree. It tells Iran if they want their leadership to die one by one that will keep attacking American targets.
As Reagan understood, “peace through superior firepower.”
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:21 pm“As Reagan understood, “peace through superior firepower.””
Remind me what happened after the Beirut barracks were bombed.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:28 pmPentagon: “This strike was aimed at deterring future attack plans.”
Lindsey Graham: “We need to be ready for a big counterpunch.”
…
JRH (52aed3) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:28 pmDrew McCoy
@_Drew_McCoy_
·
Obama took Suleimani off the sanctions list as part of the nuclear deal.
Trump took him off the face of the planet.
The wisdom of the various approaches are tbd but the differences could not be more stark.
harkin (d6cfee) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:36 pm_
Please Davethulhu,
enlighten us. Tell us how Reagan was wrong.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:36 pm“Remind me what happened after the Beirut barracks were bombed.”
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:28 pm
We hit them hard with airlifted pallets of cash?
Munroe (dd6b64) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:36 pmPentagon: “This strike was aimed at deterring future attack plans.”
Lindsey Graham: “We need to be ready for a big counterpunch.”
Not exactly mutually exclusive. As I understand it, the Pentagon was saying that further Iranian attacks were imminent and only awaiting final approval. If killing Soleimani has temporarily thwarted them then it’s a good thing. But I do think Sen. Graham is correct that Iran will now try to respond, and we had better be ready for that.
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:37 pmnk, I think Steve was referring to this
Kishnevi (2717fb) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:49 pmhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach
“Considering how many hundreds of American servicemen were either killed or maimed by IEDs created and distributed by this POS… well, works for me!”
Imagine how many fewer would be dead if we hadn’t invaded Iraq.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:53 pmCondom factory makes for a much better story… never let the facts get in the way of a good story
steveg (354706) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:58 pmThen imagine even more civilians here in America dying in their place, if Hussein had armed terrorists with WMD.
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 8:59 pm“Hussein had armed terrorists with WMD”
Imaginary WMDs can’t kill anyone.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:06 pmif Hussein had armed terrorists with WMD.
To quote As You Like It
Kishnevi (2717fb) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:07 pmThere is much virtue in an “if”.
Imagine how many fewer would be dead if we hadn’t invaded Iraq.
This is a fun game! Imagine how many fewer would be dead if we hadn’t sat around for 444 days four decades ago meekly negotiating with the mullahs to have our embassy personnel freed!
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:07 pmOver on Twitter, Rep. Ilhan Omar is taking this news very hard. Naturally everyone is wondering if she lost a brother/husband in the attack.
JVW (54fd0b) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:13 pmImagine how many fewer would be dead if we didn’t throw the Shah under the bus.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:18 pmGood.
Dustin (cafb36) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:20 pm@20. It should be at the billion-dollar-‘mission-accomplished’-greeted-as-liberators-BAGHDAD airport.
Oh, wait… that’s not true? Dubya and Dick and Wolfy and Rummy and Walrus Gumbo lied to us?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:21 pmDavethulhu,
did you get your tweet in #17 from Ilhan Omar’s twitter feed?
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:21 pm“This is a fun game! Imagine how many fewer would be dead if we hadn’t sat around for 444 days four decades ago meekly negotiating with the mullahs to have our embassy personnel freed!”
“Imagine how many fewer would be dead if we didn’t throw the Shah under the bus.”
You’re making my point for me.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:24 pm@46. Imagine how many fewer if we didn’t install and prop him up for corporate interests and petroleum products—and did.
=ba-thumpa=
“Shah! Shah! Ayatollah so!” – Robin Williams
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:24 pm“did you get your tweet in #17 from Ilhan Omar’s twitter feed?”
I’m not sure why you care, but
https://i.imgur.com/EvohxYc.png
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:30 pm@24. You do understand that the taxpayer funded edifice in Baghdad is the biggest, most expensive and most fortified U.S. embassy on the Earth.
America’s Maginot Line!
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:31 pm@35. 300 dead Marines blown up in their sleep could tell it better.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:33 pmIs Grenada is on alert yet?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:34 pmNeither can dead dictators.
There were enough very real WMD seized from Iraq in 2003 to make 9/11 look like a trifle. It doesn’t take militarily significant stockpiles to mount mass casualty terror attacks against cities, and he was hiding technology to develop and eventually produce even deadlier ones.
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:42 pmYes an Arab Spring event under Saddam sounds just dandy, what with the mustard and sarin shells that he never had, and the rockets he never shot at airports, and the non-existent torching of Kuwaiti oil wells, and the implausible invasion of a Saudi city.
Probably even better than Syria, which we can thank the dearly departed for making oh-so-amenable by throwing a lifeline to the loveliest fruit of the most charming mountain men to clamber down from Latakia hills.
JP (61c9fa) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:43 pm“We need to be ready for a big counterpunch.”
Oh, Lindsey. Peacemaker Putin will step in, kiss it all and make it better, dear.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/2/2020 @ 9:46 pmIf you liked the iraq war with 6,000 americans dead you will love the iran war with 60,000 americans dead. Thanks neo-con artists another middle east war to satiate your blood lust. Iran farsi for VIETNAM!
asset (ac75b9) — 1/2/2020 @ 10:05 pm6000 American dead in Iraq is a lie.
Dave (1bb933) — 1/2/2020 @ 10:20 pm60 you are forgetting private contractors and civilians such as aid workers and deaths from first iraq war.
asset (ac75b9) — 1/2/2020 @ 11:11 pmWe’re fortunate to have such a stable genius in the Oval Office during these perilous time — someone who doesn’t even need to read briefings because his brain is so great and his instincts are so perfect!
Radegunda (39c35f) — 1/2/2020 @ 11:58 pm@62 At least with the middle east, it can be so unpredictable that Trump could be throwing darts at options posted on a wall and likely could get the same ultimate results as someone with all the information possible and a decent understanding making the best and wisest decision they could possibly make.
Nic (896fdf) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:10 amPresumably this was the guy who ordered the invasion of our embassy, and act of war. We’ve pointed that out to the Iranians before. I guess that whole “Nya Nya Nya” thing from the Ayatollah wasn’t well advised.
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:33 am“an avid gardener and doting grandfather of eleven”?
WaPo calls him “revered”
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:35 amHowzabout an Article of impeachment for murder…
Great. The GOP could use a 70% majortiy in both houses.
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:36 amThis sounds like a job for … Space Force!
Dave, your knee is jerking something bad.
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:38 am“Mr. Sulu, lock transporters on General Soleimani. On my signal, beam him up.”
“Sorry Sir, I clearly heard you say ‘phasers’!
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:39 amRemind me what happened after the Beirut barracks were bombed.
Remind me what happened after the Soviet economy collapsed trying to compete with the phony “Star Wars”
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:40 amOld shrapnel wound from the ‘Nam has been acting up lately.
Dave (1bb933) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:49 amCan Trump fine the Iraq people for using too much water? Like California does to its citizenship? 55 gallons/day.
mg (8cbc69) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:20 amWhy do people in California put up with this schiff?
Were Kerry and Obama at the airport?
mg (8cbc69) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:42 amI pray Soros is next on the list.
mg (8cbc69) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:56 amIt’s a nationwide crisis!
“People are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times, as opposed to once.”
The federal government has top people working on it.
Top people.
Dave (1bb933) — 1/3/2020 @ 3:28 amSo you want the US government to assassinate an American citizen for supporting political views you disagree with?
You sure you’re not taking this Putin-worship thing a little too far?
Dave (1bb933) — 1/3/2020 @ 3:36 amNeither can dead dictators.
There were enough very real WMD seized from Iraq in 2003 to make 9/11 look like a trifle. It doesn’t take militarily significant stockpiles to mount mass casualty terror attacks against cities
This. Are there two Daves?
PTw (894877) — 1/3/2020 @ 5:24 amKhamenei.ir
@khamenei_ir
·
His efforts & path won’t be stopped by his martyrdom, by God’s Power, rather a #SevereRevenge awaits the criminals who have stained their hands with his & the other martyrs’ blood last night. Martyr Soleimani is an Intl figure of Resistance & all such people will seek revenge.
__ _
David Burge
harkin (d6cfee) — 1/3/2020 @ 7:22 am@iowahawkblog
·
you’ll never get another cargo plane full of Benjamins with that kind of attitude
_
— you’ll never get another cargo plane full of Benjamins with that kind of attitude
— What if we gave you the information you wanted about Hunter Biden and Burisma?
nk (dbc370) — 1/3/2020 @ 8:29 amThis attack explains why Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancelled his trip to Ukraine. A lot of attention had gone into the planning – so much so that Ambassador Bill Taylor was leaving his post a few days before the maximum amount of time he could occupy that post as a temporary appointee, so that Mike Pompeo wouldn’t have to meet him, which might result in reminding President Trump that Mike Pompeo had sent him there and even used a cable from Taylor to argue to Trump (I would guess now on Aug 30) that he should release the hold on the Ukrainian aid. If this was Aug 30, the argument was not effective. Taylor had assumed (because of what Sondland was doing) that Trump’s reasons were political and called that crazy.
Mike Pompeo said he was staying in Washington because of the Iraqi embassy situation – and it was explained by reporters, no doubt passing on deep background, that because Hillary Clinton was so criticized in connection with the Benghazi attack, and he was on that committee that investigated it, he was extremely sensitive to the possibility that American diplomats might be killed on his watch. Therefore he was staying in Washington to supervise it. (it was added for good measure that he might want to run for the Senate in 2020 and/or for president in 2024.)
But it didn’t make sense that he was staying in Washington because it looked like the Iraqi embassy situation had been resolved, and not just by the Marines. It wasn’t that they repelled them. The people surrounding the embassy had withdrawn.
To recap: In one of the minor Iranian sponsored attacks in Iraq an American had been killed. Trump seems to regard this sort of thing as a casus belli and a red line. He’s for peace (or no involvement in fighting by U.S. forces) until that happens.
Trump had ordered the bombing of several targets in Iraq and Iran – all connected with Iran, and probably the Quds force (it’s named after the Arabic name for Jerusalem although it doesn’t confine itself to criminal attacks (war crimes) on Israel but for now is involved in all kinds of other things with more immediate prospects of success
Then, Ian in retaliation, and to establish deterrence, had staged this demonstration and controlled riot at the U,S. Embassy in Baghdad where they were careful not to try some things and avoid more sensitive places..
Then Trump had warned that important Iranian targets might be attacked, And Trump had also said Iran would make a bad decision if went more in this direction (paraphrase) but he he didn’t want war with Iran.
And then the Iranian-controlled militia had withdrawn all of its people from the sitdown, or was in he process of pulling everybody out, although the embassy was still not going to offer consular services yet.
So everything looked like the next step was up to Iran. And Iran had de-escalated.
Then Trump attacks (the plane carrying?) Gen. Qassim Soleimani, the commander of the Quds Force, which is causing all sorts of trouble in Iraq and Syria and possibly other places including organizing and commanding armed forces in Lebanon and Gaza.
The Pentagon emphasized this was not punishment (although the fact that he deserved that probably caused everyone involved to no qualms about this) but prevention. For all the de-escalation of the latest confrontation, General Qassim Soleimani showed no signs of giving up his activities, and his personal involvement seemed very much to be needed.
The
Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea) — 1/3/2020 @ 8:37 amAnyway …
The strike was from a drone (or drones). Remember when Iran shot one down not all that long ago? Well, you don’t mess with Skynet and hope to get away with it.
nk (dbc370) — 1/3/2020 @ 8:40 amWaiting for Drudge to run a story by a UFO nut who thinks Skynet went rogue and avenged it’s drone spawn
steveg (354706) — 1/3/2020 @ 9:20 amGrenada went fine as far as I can see.
Side note.
steveg (354706) — 1/3/2020 @ 9:27 amI’ve met two Grenadians here in town so far.
They are training here for the 2020 Olympic games. Nice guys.
Grenada with a population of less than 120,000 has an excellent chance at a gold and a bronze in the decathlon.
“CNN Politics
@CNNPolitics
Top Democratic leaders were kept in dark about Soleimani attack https://cnn.it/39CB9vl
__ _
Comfortably Smug
@ComfortablySmug
·
So that’s why Soleimani wasn’t tipped off
__ _
Considering Obama informed Iran about an Israeli mission to take him out (foiling it) a few years ago, can’t really blame them.
harkin (d6cfee) — 1/3/2020 @ 9:42 am__ _
State has directed all American nationals to leave Iraq ASAP.
After billions of dollars and thousands of lives lost, ‘Greeted as liberators’ becomes ‘Yankee go home.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 9:43 am@72/73. Not funny.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 9:46 amSF: Trump attacks (the plane carrying?) Gen. Qassim Soleimani
Actually it a convoy that had left Baghdad airport Suleimani had arrived on a plane from Syria, and cars picked up two people. Altogether only five people were killed. It was attacked by an armed drone.
Trump probably gave the authorization for this at the time he gave the authorization for the other attacks. By last night he situation had not changed for anyone to want to call off the attack.
What was Suleimani doing in Iraq? Planning some kind of deadly trouble.
The people who say this will set off Iran don’t understand Iran or other malevolent tyrannies. They don’t think in terms of quid pro quo. They don’t need a provocation. They are governed by balance of power considerations. Whether they attack or not depends on how they see the balance of power not how they see the back and forth. So this won’t cause Iran to be more aggressive. It might cause less, and its capabilities have been damaged.
Suleimani was considered something like a combination of the head of Joint Special Operations Command and the CIA Director, plus a de facto Foreign Minister. He was considered a possible successor to Khamenei, and the second most important person in the regime. He was 62 years old.
Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea) — 1/3/2020 @ 9:59 amhttps://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/pelosi-condemns-trumps-provocative-and-disproportionate-airstrike-killing-top
Pelosi sides with the Iranians. I miss the days when the left wasn’t so openly anti-American.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/3/2020 @ 10:26 amWhen did all conflict have to be ‘proportionate’? I mean, to some extent, when the enemy was the USSR and they had nukes (that supposedly would work) in their back pocket, it made some sense. But you don’t stop a fight by playing paddy-cake games. A fight is won by hitting back HARDER. Especially given that the fight had to have escalated in some manner to even get to whatever point it is currently at. Hitting back harder may escalate, true, but it may also end the fight. Hitting back only as hard as you were hit is less likely to stop the fight and more likely to escalate it than the other way around. People who have actually been in serious fights generally understand this. Little statesmen and philosophers and divines not so much.
PTw (894877) — 1/3/2020 @ 10:45 amThere was a message sent here: “You are playing a dangerous game, and you, too, might be the next casualty.” I see nothing wrong with assassinating enemy leaders; it is far better morally than killing their minions.
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 10:55 amhttps://pjmedia.com/trending/obama-administration-stopped-israel-from-assassinating-soleimani-in-2015-report-says/
New policy, contrary to the previous administration.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:03 amPart of an Arutz Sheva (Israel national News) story: (boldface and italics mine)
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:25 am87. The Democrats think in terms of escalation, while the Iranians think in terms of balance of power.
The United states sometimes doesn’t do things for humanitarian reasons. And other tims it doesn’t do things for diplomatic or political reasons. The diplomatic reasons can be waived.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:29 amIt was like thsi during the Cold war, too (I mean the way the country on the other side thought bvs the way Amricans tend to think.
Khrushchev treated Berlin and Hungary the same. If the U.S. did ot intervene in Humngary it shouldn’t logically intervene in Berlin a Holding on to it was like liberating Hungary. But the United States though in terms of changes in the status quo or not.
Killing Soleimani is a big change in the status quo but it doesn’t project American power to a place where it wasn’t.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:34 amProper sequence:
1. Iranian-backed militias attack and trash US embassy in Baghdad.
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:41 am2. Iran laughs at US for saying it blames Iran and will retaliate.
3. US retaliates.
4. Iran and US-based useful idiots decry “escalation.”
#94: I call them “armchair Rambos”
Kevin M (19357e) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:42 amJack Goldsmith has a good Twitter thread on the legality of the strike, which he called “maddeningly complex, factually and legally.” If our stand is that we killed him to prevent future attacks on Americans (and Iraq has consented to our presence), then it was legitimate self-defense. Also, we have a continuing AUMF in Iraq and Trump does have Article II powers, and Congress has done basically nothing to put guardrails around those powers.
Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:44 amFor me, Suleimani should’ve been taken out in 2007. He had too much American blood on his hands to live.
“… tossed a stick of dynamite into a tinderbox.”
And that would be your vote to go to war in Iraq, right, JoeyBee?
Idiot.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:53 amI am not losing any sleep over the killing of this man. He deserved everything he got.
But the question is, what is our strategy? Is it just, lash out at the latest bad guy so we feel good for a few minutes? If so, there will be another one to replace the guy we just killed in short order. And the security and interests of the United States will not have been advanced an inch.
Bored Lawyer (58a164) — 1/3/2020 @ 11:55 am@94. Oh, please. Seal Team Six managed to corral Bin Laden w/t option to capture or kill- in the middle of Wogland, no less. Years after ‘mission accomplished,’ Baghdad Int’l Airport sits in freed-at-the-point-of-a-gun, liberated-at-a-multi-billion dollar-thousands-of-American-lives-lost-cost-‘greeted-at-liberators’ Iraq.
So neocons Rambo Rummy, Dummy Dubya, Wolfy and Wlrus Gumbo lied to us???
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:02 pmIf so, there will be another one to replace the guy we just killed in short order. And the security and interests of the United States will not have been advanced an inch.
A certain Frenchman was reported to have said, “The graveyards are full of indispensable men”. Granted he was one of France’s best winners, yet ultimately a loser. Do not underestimate the power of keeping your enemy reacting to your strategy. It keeps him on his back foot and consumes resources that would have been otherwise (likely) employed in an offensive capacity. Our strategy should be to keep THEM off balance rather than waiting for them to throw us off balance and then only respond ‘proportionally’, whatever that means.
As Sammy astutely points out, “The Democrats think in terms of escalation, while the Iranians think in terms of balance of power”. Power is what these people deal with internally and externally. They are not the civilization of 5000 years ago. They don’t grasp the idea of a win-win situation. Not that there is one in war, but there definitely is one in peace. But again, they don’t think that way. Not saying that they can’t. But hundreds of years of modern history has shown that they simply choose not to.
PTw (894877) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:06 pmCNN Politics
@CNNPolitics
President Trump dined on ice cream as news of the airstrike broke https://cnn.it/2SPsJK
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Matt Pizzano
@Pizzano_82
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Someone went to journalism school to write this. Let that marinate.
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SandyS
@SandyS121718
Replying to
@CNNPolitics
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You keep retweeting this so apparently it’s very important to you. Do some real journalising and tell us flavor
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Manimal
harkin (d6cfee) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:07 pm@BigRedOne5
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Iraqi Road
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@99. They could have take this guy out any time over the past decade or two. The strategy is totally transactional; to fill the media with chatter about smacking down Iran and not evidentiary fragments surfacing to bolster removal from office in impeachment proceedings.
Might make a good movie… oh wait…‘Wag The Dog.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:08 pm@100 You have zero idea of what you speak. You’re comments here are quite often littered with Narrative fantasy pop-culture. That is not reality. You’re simply not a thinker. This was aptly demonstrated recently in a discussion where you essentially used Labor Value Theory to price moon rocks…Odd that nobody here on a ‘conservative’ site called you out on that. To make such a claim is the sign of very shallow thinking capacity. I greatly doubt you will take this advice but you really should stay on the porch and not bark. You’re over your head, even here.
PTw (894877) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:11 pmDespite Trump not having a strategy, killing Suleimani was a good strategic move. Abu Muqawama has a good piece on him, saying the guy was indispensable.
It’s not unreasonable to disagree with many of Trump’s Middle East decisions but still agree that Suleimani had to go.
Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:11 pm@97. Golly, future crimes justifying arrest or assassination. That would make for a good movie plot, too. Oh, wait; it’s been done: ‘Minority Report.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:11 pm@104. Speak for yourself.
We know where conservative and neocon heads are–an it ain’t on a porch.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:15 pm@100. Potscrip. When you have the talk w/family about ‘the threat’ what to expect when you’re ‘taken’ oversea- get back to me.
Otherwise, sip your beer and enjoy your armchair quarterbacking.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:19 pmWell said. It’s great this bastard is dead. While it’s cute to say Pelosi must have sided with the Iranians and CNN is the devil, or otherwise just use this as another popcorn partisan comedy opportunity, the truth is that Iran is a real problem that the USA has struggled with a lot lately.
What is the plan? Blaming Bush is not a plan.
I lost a lot of friends to Operation Iraqi Freedom, at the time thinking it was a heroic sacrifice for something that would make America much safer. Then Obama squandered the victory. Today it’s even worse. I feel a bizarre guilt about the situation, that I get to thrive while my nation generally agrees the whole war in Iraq was a waste. Trump calls it the worst thing America ever did. And then hits the red button, sending more guys in, blowing up some stuff, obviously to manipulate the media about his impeachment.
NJ Rob says if you’re not with Trump you’re with the Iranian theocracy. It’s a good troll because it demands a response that has nothing to do with impeachment. Well here’s the response: what has Trump’s plan been with Iran, and what has he done in 2017, 2018, and 2019 to achieve his plan? What is his goal for 2020 and how will he work with others to achieve it? Where is the leadership if it is suddenly so important that we follow this leader today?
Dustin (cafb36) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:26 pmNonexistent quote. Retract the lie and just admit that the President did something good. I know it’s hard for you so you much rather attack false strawmen then deal with reality.
NJRob (4d595c) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:31 pmOne, the general oversaw recent attacks against Americans, and he had the blood of over 30 score Americans on his hands. That should’ve been enough. If he created an imminent threat by plotting attacks against Americans, then that’s gravy. It was legitimate to take him out. Two, it wasn’t an assassination because he’s not a political figure. He was a valid military target.
Paul Montagu (e1b5a7) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:33 pmRemember when Obama was president and there was an Iranian uprising? Obama was roundly criticized from the right for not taking the opportunity to support them.
There is another uprising going on now. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say this wasn’t a spontaneous act with no thought to future ramifications.
This isn’t the start of WWIII, this is the much needed support for the liberation of Iran by her people.
lee (f8d029) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:43 pm@109. Keep in mind, they volunteered to keep the world ‘safe and profitable’ for corporatists.
The Bush/Obama strategy was a longer term calculated rationale. Trump’s is short term transactional.
Recall a similar dilemma w/Libya’s Kadaffi I was privy to in ’69 involving senior oil execs., Middle East petroleum reserves, U.S. government cloak-and-dagger ‘assets’– and whether to let him stay or off him. It’s a true, long and intriguing story w/corporate and int’l government legalities involved on both sides of the Atlantic and very much on the QT at the time, but in the end, you can thank the head of Standard Oil for persuading those involved allow Kadaffi to stay in power.
Muammar had no idea how close he came to geting whacked that autumn. Which is why the dark humor in the film ‘Network’ in that supposedly satirical scene where the execs are deciding what to do about Beale, has more truth to it than most people realize.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:48 pmOh, and as far as this being a wag the dog thing, I’ve told you before and Ill tell you again, Trump WANTS the Dems to impeach him. He would like nothing better than a Senate trial that he can turn on them. Why do you think nasty Nancy is holding back?
lee (f8d029) — 1/3/2020 @ 12:52 pm“We have the best intelligence in the world.” – President Donald J. Trump 1/3/20
Helsinki.
Except when it comes to Russia, eh, Captain sir!?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:04 pmhttps://twitter.com/farnazfassihi/status/1212996980051529728
Impressive JVW, how did you predict this? NY T8mes writer sharing the terrorist’s love of poetry and dearly departed friends wishes.
NJRob (762eb5) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:14 pmThis will not end well. The last thing the US wants to do is get involved in another protracted conflict in the Middle East, one that could rapidly escalate into a regional war.
Yeah, Suleimani was a bad guy, a real troublemaker. Doubtless he ordered the strike against our surveillance drone and coordinated the attacks on tanker ships in the gulf, and probably instigated the assault on the US embassy in Baghdad. He was trying to provoke a US response and lead us into war. Well, he got the response he wanted, and now he’s dead. The world is a better place without him in it.
However, Iran will surely retaliate, and it could be in the worse way. They have proxies throughout the region, in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, and probably in Europe, maybe even in the US. Worse, they are allied with and supplied by Russia. As is Syria and Turkey, which by the way, is a member of NATO.
What if Iran launches an attack on Turkey? I doubt they will, since both are aligned with Russia. But they wanted to start a global war, that would be the way to do it. The NATO charter states, an attack on one is an attack on all. How would NATO respond? Since Trump has alienated our allies, that question is important. And Putin is laughing.
A war with Iran will not be like the war in Iraq. Iran is three times as big, in terms of geography and population, and has a far extended overreach, so an invasion is almost an impossibility. Iran can and will wreak havoc throughout the Middle East.
It won’t be one country against another. It will be one country against several others, on both sides. And that will not end well.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:26 pm@112. Anglo-American experience in tht region; installing and propping up the Oily Shah etc., should have taught you that ‘liberation of the Iranian people’ is an issue for the citizens of Iran decide and manage– not Western corporatists.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:32 pmActually you said just minutes ago:
She did not actually express an allegiance to the Iranian government. She simply criticized Trump’s escalation and asked for congress to be in the loop on warmaking (which is appropriate).
So I did not lie. You lied. I’m not sure if you noticed, but I’m not a boot licker.
Dustin (cafb36) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:34 pmYes lee, you are indeed very far out on a limb with that statement. It is a 180 reversal of Trump’s behavior so far, which is why it’s hilarious that Trump’s fans demand I praise him when also demanding I praise him for doing the opposite. It’s a pretty lame way to handle a flip flop.
Dustin (cafb36) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:36 pm118- I said nothing about installing our guy, I said supporting the Iranian people in liberating themselves.
Kinda like France’s roll in our revolution.
lee (f8d029) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:43 pmRole…
lee (f8d029) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:43 pm@117. It’ll never end. And this administration’s routine bayonetting of truth has left little life blood in believing anything they say to domestic or international audiences. Pompeo’s vague explanations today only underscores it. As you note, Iran isn’t Iraq. They proxies around the world and cells that can pop up and off in bistros and malls and a certain somebody’s golf resorts- from hotels in Singapore to post offices in New Brunswick– that can keep this going on for decades.
Smarter people than the third and fourth string bench warmers in the Trump administration understood the strategic rationale of the trade off to monitor and contain. Howzabout a drone strike on Putin or Kim, fellas?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:50 pm117
I think “going to war” is entirely up to Iran.
Remember, the Iraq War I & II is really successful as far as pacifying the government. The issue was the nation building aspect.
I can see that we destroy their Navy, Military installations and oil fields… but, I’m not convinced we’d see any sort of land invasion, or even would need it.
whembly (fd57f6) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:54 pmYou lied. You said I made a general statement which I did not. You now doubled down on the lie. Why not just admit your mistake?
NJRob (d944f5) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:59 pm@121. No. It’s not. 1776 ain’t 2020.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:01 pm“I said supporting the Iranian people in liberating themselves.”
Perhaps the Iranian people can ask the Kurds how things worked out for them.
Davethulhu (fab944) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:01 pm@127. Or read T.E.Lawrence’s ‘Seven Pillars of Wisdom.‘
What-the-hell, just see the movie.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:09 pm123- just out of curiosity, when you carefully check under your bed each night at sleepy time, what are you most frightened of finding? A Russian, an Iranian (proxie), or an American corporatist?
lee (f8d029) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:11 pm@129. See #113– and figure it out for yourself.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 2:50 pmI most certainly did.
Dave (f3d095) — 1/3/2020 @ 3:00 pm@131. And I most certainly shot it down w/WaPo. Such a silly ol’ PTw he be.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 3:14 pm@132 The WaPo quote (which you apparently still don’t grasp the absurdity of) is what you’re being ridiculed for…
Dave (f3d095) — 1/3/2020 @ 3:38 pm@133. Dave, I’m go to be kind to you.
Eons before your Higgy beans were even thought of existing; ages before the reactionary PTw was birthed; from the earliest knuckle dragging ape men to Heston’s flight of fancy to the Planet of the Apes; every human being who ever lived– from Jesus Christ to Adolf Hitler– and all the sordid souls in between, at some moment in their brief time on Earth– even as a fleeting thought– has gazed up at the 4 billon year old moon and wondered what was there– and what it was like there.
That half-million year mystery was fulfilled in my life time. Which makes the value of those rocks to me- and most thinking members of mankind– priceless treasures.
PTw’s ignorance aside, one would have expected an alleged ‘physicist’ to comprehend that. More’s the pity that you do not.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/3/2020 @ 5:33 pmThey would lose, and badly. The Iranians know this and it is why Iran’s leaders have always been pretty gun-shy about anything resembling a conventional battle with the US or NATO members generally.
The purported chief architect of the Iranian government’s strategy in the region has been snuffed out after he and his higher-ups goaded a glorified carnival barker with a bad tan.
Tehran has lost face and will bide its time to do something. But maybe not half so much as people think, given the price they and their proxies have paid over the last few weeks.
JP (61c9fa) — 1/3/2020 @ 7:45 pmIf the Turks and the Iranians square off we should replenish the Turk supply of non- halal MRE’s post haste
steveg (354706) — 1/4/2020 @ 6:43 pmOh and ship our nukes out on Incirlik
steveg (354706) — 1/4/2020 @ 6:43 pmout of Incirlik
steveg (354706) — 1/4/2020 @ 6:44 pm124. whembly (fd57f6) — 1/3/2020 @ 1:54 pm
I think that Trump, once this starts, won’t accept anything less than Iran giving up all its support of foreign militias * and abandoning its nuclear program for good, (and doing such ancillary things so as to satisfy the United sates that it has done so) but it is far less than unconditional surrender.
* This includes giving up terrorism, or any violent unlawful acts outside of Iran, although that could be hard to nail down.
Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea) — 1/6/2020 @ 9:02 amWhy not just admit you absolutely did use an argument that if one does not stand with Trump they are taking Iran’s side, even if in no respect they have shown support for Iran? This is a very common Trump claim today after all.
Your effort to spin aggressively when caught by attacking me is both stupid and not something I care about. It’s proof you know I’m right, as far as I’m concerned. Go lick a boot.
Dustin (cafb36) — 1/6/2020 @ 9:19 am