Patterico's Pontifications

6/1/2009

Death of Abortion Doctor: Leftists Begin to Point the Fingers

Filed under: Abortion,General — Patterico @ 1:23 am



The AP reports that the killer of George Tiller, Scott Roder, apparently left a comment on Operation Rescue’s site talking about Tiller’s “death camp” — and how a “presence” should be organized at Tiller’s church.

The cached version of the comment is here. Scroll to comment 9 (link via Free Republic):


(Click to enlarge)

The comment reads as follows:

Bleass everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp.

Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.

What does this prove? That Tiller’s killer was an anti-abortion zealot. Big shocker there.

And the L.A. Times runs an article that sets forth the tactics of the violent fringes of the anti-abortion movement:

Bombings. Butyric acid attacks. Sniper shootings. Letters filled with fake anthrax. These are some of the tactics used over the years by antiabortion extremists.

Fair enough, but when do you see the tactics of leftist extremists portrayed this way? I’m told that even our federal government has recognized that leftist extremists engage in bombings and arson; why, wasn’t a certain Bill Ayers involved with a leftist group that killed people? Yes, I believe he was. (Who knew him again?) You rarely see the angry L.A. Times articles about that.

Meanwhile, the left-wingers are also trying to point the finger at Bill O’Reilly because he strongly denounced Tiller’s late-term abortions. This murder ought to keep the Orcinus site fueled with misplaced righteous indignation for weeks. We’re already seeing the anti-O’Reilly stuff at Excitable Andy’s site. And take, for example, Salon.com, which says:

When his show airs tomorrow, Bill O’Reilly will most certainly decry the death of Kansas doctor George Tiller, who was killed Sunday while attending church services with his wife. Tiller, O’Reilly will say, was a man who was guilty of barbaric acts, but a civilized society does not resort to lawless murder, even against its worst members. And O’Reilly, we can assume, will genuinely mean this.

But there’s no other person who bears as much responsibility for the characterization of Tiller as a savage on the loose, killing babies willy-nilly thanks to the collusion of would-be sophisticated cultural elites, a bought-and-paid-for governor and scofflaw secular journalists.

Regular readers know that I’m anything but a Bill O’Reilly fan, but this is nonsense, and O’Reilly must be defended. Killing Tiller was unequivocally wrong, but what he did — late-term abortions on the flimsiest of excuses — offended a lot of people, and I believe justifiably so. It didn’t merit his getting killed; his murder was an evil and despicable act. But that doesn’t mean that Bill O’Reilly was wrong to criticize Tiller — even harshly. And it doesn’t mean Bill O’Reilly is responsible for Tiller’s death.

So let’s put an end to all such talk right now.

111 Responses to “Death of Abortion Doctor: Leftists Begin to Point the Fingers”

  1. The people who are most gleeful about Tiller’s death are the pro-abortion left. I began to see the snarky, dancing in the end-zone, “see what a bunch of murdering thugs you so called pro-lifers are” comments even before the corpse was cold.

    V the K (2d455a)

  2. “I began to see the snarky, dancing in the end-zone, “see what a bunch of murdering thugs you so called pro-lifers are” comments even before the corpse was cold”

    Yeah me too

    This is the first record of the story at Free Republic

    George Tiller (Child Murderer) shot to death at Wichita church
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:35:48 AM

    This was the first political reprisal article. I get ABC News alerts on my mobile phone.. they sent out three messages about this today. It’s funny how this abortion thing is treated so urgently.

    NOW Identifies Murder of Dr. George Tiller As Domestic Terrorism, Calls for Action from…….
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:13:44 PM
    NOW.ORG ^

    Late-Term Abortion Doctor Decries Tiller Killing: ‘This Is a Fascist Movement’
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:52:00 PM
    The Colorado Independent ^ | Sunday, May 31, 2009 | Ernest Luning

    Right-Wing Hate Rears Its Ugly Head
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:56:18 PM
    Cherry Creek News ^ | Sunday, 31 May 2009

    HuffPost: Tiller Murder: Ann Coulter’s Happy Day?
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:06:14 PM
    Huffington Post | 5/31/09 | Adele Stan

    DailyKos: I am embarrassed to be pro-life today
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:30:53 PM
    DailyKos | 5/31/09

    With Tiller slaying, abortion opponents lose their moral standing
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:51:27 PM
    Kansas City Star ^ | May. 31, 2009 | Mike Hendricks

    VinceP1974 (d618f1)

  3. Pat:

    Do you think O’Reilly.com will reinstate you for your defense of him?

    /snark

    Dr. K (0fdffa)

  4. The right is never as equal as the left in the media.

    Vivian Louise (c0f830)

  5. For all his faults, O’Reilly did often point out evil scum like Tiller or call for laws to protect children, highlight the idiotic rulings of some judges, etc. Ok, Tiller should not have been assassinated. Some might wonder though just how many late term abortions Tiller will no longer be able to perform. Or are there other “doctors” ready to jump in? I can’t imagine taking an oath to preserve life and being against abortion and then having my government insist that it is my duty to perform abortions. Bad enough taxpayer dollars are used to fatten abortion clinic profits. Pity a certain flower child dipshit mom did not abort someone who wouldn’t want his own daughters to suffer an unwanted child. Or maybe more apropos, a national media that is beholding to the far left and covers for people like Obama, Ayers, Wright, etc.

    aoibhneas (55634c)

  6. What’s this “equal” bit, Vivian Louise? You’ve been reading too much Howie Kurtz.

    Changing the subject isn’t going to help Patterico. The acts of the extreme left don’t cancel out those of the extreme right.

    David Ehrenstein (681fe6)

  7. Pro-life is EXACTLY that….you do not kill to acquire your goal of ending abortion.

    J (332b35)

  8. Pro-life is EXACTLY that….you do not kill to acquire your goal of ending abortion.

    And that is why we know that a nut-job committed the crime.

    Vivian Louise (eeeb3a)

  9. May God rest Dr. Tiller’s soul, but I can’t believe a mainstream Christian church tolerated him as a congregant.

    “Abortion’ victims — Women and Minorities Hardest Hit.”

    furious (a74982)

  10. While I appreciate that most pro-lifers abhor this type of violence, there is a persistent faction in the movement who condones this type of violence and encourages it by outrageous statements.

    PS – O’Reilly is a cheap-suit hypocrite. He’d last two seconds in a real battle, and be the first to run home to his mama. He can pontificate all he wants on Fox, but I know what he really is—an egotistical blowhard who’s in love with the sound of his voice (so is Olberman, BTW). He has no ethics whatsoever. Tiller’s blood is on his hands too.

    JEA (a3c869)

  11. This will be Clinton’s attempt to blame Oklahoma City on Limbaugh all over again. Never let a good crisis go to waste. The Obama doctrine.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  12. JEA: “persistent faction in the movement who condones this type of violence and encourages it by outrageous statements.”

    The left has equally outrageous statements. My only regret is that this man was executed illegally by an obvious nutjob who decided in “his religion” that this act of terrorism was OK. Kinda like the islamofascists.

    I would much rather have seen late term abortions seen as the murder of a child. I’ve been told by obstatricians that there is no reason for a late term abortion, if the mother’s health is in danger, having an abortion of a child that could survive on his own is not called for. It doesn’t change the health status of the mother, it does kill a baby.

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  13. A provocative thought: In a technical sense, don’t you think that the murder of Dr. Tiller was a late-term abortion? It’s just much much later than his style of procedures.

    Todd (0c8993)

  14. O’Reilly caught the wave of pre-existing furor in Kansas, he may be perfectly sincere, but he’s bandwagon.
    Roeder’s wacko life, conspiratorial obsession and proclivities to extra-legal extreme measures were very unlikely to have been stoked by O’R, even though O’R is constantly referred to in the Operation Rescue message board as a sort of champion and figurehead for their then current cause against Tiller.

    Roeder is much more likely, I think, to have been frustrated, angered and motivated by Tiller’s recent aquittal I imagine his defense will be he gave the law a chance, the law had failed, and God’s judgment would be leveled upon him (and us all, for that matter) if he did not act.

    SarahW (fdd722)

  15. JEA, are you just as angry with Obama’s friends/supporters Bernadette Dohrn and Bill Ayers? Or are you only outraged when the right can be smeared?

    PCD (02f8c1)

  16. I jold JEA responsible for all actions committed by anyone, at anytime, on the Left.

    JD (0d1f38)

  17. With Tiller slaying, abortion opponents lose their moral standing
    Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:51:27 PM
    Kansas City Star ^ | May. 31, 2009 | Mike Hendricks

    What an unbelievably dishonest piece of propaganda. Hendricks even dragged Randall Terry to discredit Operation Rescue, although OR broke with Terry years ago. OR states on its Web site that Terry left the group in 1991 and does not speak for it. That’s 18 years ago!

    I don’t agree with Operation Rescue, but I know a factless smear job when I see one.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  18. Did you ever see The Fisher King, Patterico?

    wheeler's cat (483126)

  19. […] question for Bill Ayers: if right radio talk show hosts are to be blamed for Tiller’s killing, is it fair to blame you for Weather Underground […]

    Regarding Nishi, Some Asshole, & Other Trolls [Dan Collins] (7a2640)

  20. As others have already noted, this does nothing to help the anti – abortion cause, and anyone postulating otherwise is trafficking in falsehoods. Regarding the murdered doctor, he certainly wasn’t shy about his many procedures, was he? You could make a case that his behavior was a little more than just provocative – no, he didn’t “deserve” this by any means, but he appeared to be almost daring anyone to take him out.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  21. It wasn’t but a couple of months ago when Republicans were using Bill Ayers to slime the Democratic Presidential nominee as a terrorist sympathizer or a subversive. It seems to me that if you ever tried to make a point about Obama or the left by invoking Bill Ayers, you shouldn’t be complaining that people are blaming pro-lifers for getting Tiller killed. Turnabout is fair play, isn’t it?

    TEH NARRATIVE (863676)

  22. “Leftists Begin to Point the Fingers”

    Using guilt by association to decry the guilt by association aimed your way?

    poon (093c46)

  23. Tiller’s blood is on his hands too.
    Wrong JEA, Tiller’s blood is on the hands of the nutjob that murdered him. I would no more blame BOR for Tiller’s death then I would Olberdork of Bush were murdered. Some of us still believe in free speech I guess.

    Dawnsblood (a83e77)

  24. It wasn’t but a couple of months ago when Republicans were using Bill Ayers to slime the Democratic Presidential nominee as a terrorist sympathizer or a subversive

    And if a Republican candidate hung out with the guy who shot Tiller, he would be shunned quite rightfully by the rest of the party.

    Barring that, your post is non sequitur.

    Steverino (69d941)

  25. why, wasn’t a certain Bill Ayers involved with a leftist group that killed people?

    When was that?

    Also, what is the total number of the victims of left-wing extremists vs. victims of right-wing extremists in the last 20 years?

    When was the last time left-wing assassin was cheered all over the net by his political allies?

    Nikolay (442410)

  26. That is a good post. Well said.

    Joe (17aeff)

  27. “JEA, are you just as angry with Obama’s friends/supporters Bernadette Dohrn and Bill Ayers? Or are you only outraged when the right can be smeared?”

    First of all, I wouldn’t classify them as Obama’s ‘friends’. Let’s have some sense of reality here. No, just so you know (not that I’m obligated to tell you because one has nothing to do with the other), I’m NOT a supporter of those 2 scumbags. I heard Ayers interviewed on NPR and he’s a lowlife of the worst order.

    JEA (53fe4f)

  28. As others have already noted, this does nothing to help the anti – abortion cause, and anyone postulating otherwise is trafficking in falsehoods.

    It probably hurts anti-abortion cause in the long term, but Tiller was one of the couple doctors that still dared to provide late-term abortions.
    Now the women faced with the perspective of death in childbirth or of giving birth to a child that will live short life consisting of nothing but pain have like 33% less doctors they could turn to. Two more assassinations and the goal is reached.

    Nikolay (442410)

  29. I asked God if Roeder would be going to Heaven later and He looked at me like I was on crack.

    happyfeet (2d133f)

  30. When was that?

    I’m sorry, but I don’t see how Ayers is any less guilty just because it happened almost 40 years ago.

    When was the last time left-wing assassin was cheered all over the net by his political allies?

    Cheered all over the net? Maybe in a couple of places that are filled with nuts, but the overwhelming majority of pro-lifers are horrified by this.

    Of course, Ted Kennedy gets cheered by his political allies….

    Steverino (69d941)

  31. Now the women faced with the perspective of death in childbirth or of giving birth to a child that will live short life consisting of nothing but pain have like 33% less doctors they could turn to.

    Links to support this broad statement, please – and let’s see some objective sources backing up those claims as well.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  32. The Narrative is back. As steverino rightly pointed out, it offers a fairly inapt comparison, given the fact that none of us are friends with this murderer, but Barcky most certainly was friends with Ayers. Then, we get an influx of wheeler’/nishi, poon, and JEA. Good Allah, the Leftists absolutle revel in this disgusting event.

    JD (0d1f38)

  33. Nikolay – Exaggerate much?

    JD (0d1f38)

  34. It seems like we should be examining root causes, or comparing him to a Minuteman or something.

    MayBee (c50b9d)

  35. ”I don’t regret setting bombs killing abortion doctors,” Bill Ayers Scott Roeder said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”

    Maybe Obama can get Scott Roeder to edit his next book from prison.

    Neo (46a1a2)

  36. Patterico- is this website acting weird, or did you delete my comment?

    MayBee (c50b9d)

  37. It’s just weird, MayBee. It sort of just works at its own pace.

    happyfeet (2d133f)

  38. “Two more assassinations and the goal is reached.”

    I can’t imagine why people have the impression that pro-lifers are encouraging this.

    PS – I don’t revel in anyone’s death. To my mind that’s not a Christian attitude.

    JEA (53fe4f)

  39. I can’t imagine why people have the impression that pro-lifers are encouraging this.

    People see what they want to see. You, for instance, are ignoring the overwhelming majority of pro-lifers who are condemning this.

    Steverino (69d941)

  40. MayBee,
    Patterico turns on comment caching when demand gets heavy, to avoid overloading the site.

    You can tell when caching is taking place, because when you click on the link to the home page, the list of comments is newer than when you click on a link to a particular post.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., (4c7356)

  41. JEA – Read Nikolay’s entire comment. An actual pro-life supporter would never describe partial birth abortions in the manner in which Nikolay did.

    JD (0d1f38)

  42. I’m guessing there is a chance that the upcoming ObamaDem “free health care” legislation will be named the “George Tiller Health Care Reform Act.”

    gp (72be5d)

  43. I dunno. The LA Times article looks pretty accurate to me. Can’t knock ’em for telling the truth.

    The only thing I see wrong with the article is that that those who favor legalized abortion are referred to thusly: “The National Abortion Federation, which supports abortion rights” i.e. they’re portrayed as supporters of rights, but those who are opposed to legalized abortion are simply: “antiabortion activists” opposed to abortion.

    And, that’s totally biased.

    But, what do you expect from the L.A. Times?

    Dave Surls (8e0258)

  44. Didn’t the LA Times once have an ombudsman, or some silly title like that, who absolutely ripped the LA Times for their incredibly biased coverage of the abortion issue?

    JD (ca9da7)

  45. If someone shot Randall Terry, would his many detractors be responsible? I’m pretty sure the subject wouldn’t even come up.

    Like Terry, Dr Tiller was in-your-face about what he believed, and he didn’t much care what you thought about it.

    I read yesterday that he had claimed to have performed 60,000 late-term abortions. Does anyone really wonder that such a record would offend those opposed to abortion? Considering that less than 15% of the population supports 3rd-trimester abortions for any but the most extreme reasons, such a record would offend a majority.

    Is it surprising that, in a county of 300 million, you find someone offended enough to commit murder?

    Not (at all) saying this was justified. Just unremarkable. Much like the killing of Meir Kahane, although in that case the killer was acquitted of all but a minor gun charge.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  46. I’m not sure that O’Reilly has to be defended. He’s just some cable news moron that really isn’t all that important in the big picture. Especially if you don’t watch him, which, why would you really. Also he has no dignity. And he’s kind of a stupid fella. You think maybe he has a drinking problem?

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  47. SO, today two Armed Forces recruiters were shot in Little Rock.

    Is this Code Pink’s fault? Or just some loon in an SUV. This kind of blame thing is really stupid.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  48. Someone who kills a murderer on death row, is still a murderer (except for the “official” executioner). In this case both are guilty of murder and will be facing similar punishments in the afterlife. Since we cannot see what that punishment is, all we can do is prosecute, convict, and punish according to the law of the land.

    sabbahillel (e534cc)

  49. You rarely see the angry L.A. Times articles about that.

    Yep. You see all these articles about anti-abortion extremists when one murdered someone last week but nothing about Bill Ayers when those anarchists bombed the Pentagon yesterday! What a bunch of commie-coddling leftists at the LA Slimes.

    Breaking News! (567029)

  50. http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0609/627959.html

    I blame Teh Narrative, Keith Olbergasm, Rachel MadCow, duvel, poon, nishi, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Code Pink. They have blood on their hands.

    JD (ca9da7)

  51. Efforts to compare Bill Ayers to Scott Roder are absurd. Destruction of property and first degree murder are not morally equivalent.

    As to O’Reilly, as a liberal who can’t stomach the guy, I agree 100% with Patterico on this: O’Reilly’s harsh criticism of Dr. Tiller in no way makes him culpable for Tiller’s death. That’s like trying to blame Marilyn Manson for Columbine. People who are ready to commit first degree murder don’t take their marching orders from TV pundits and rock stars.

    Tom (5df261)

  52. “Meanwhile, the left-wingers are also trying to point the finger at Bill O’Reilly because he strongly denounced Tiller’s late-term abortions.”

    Whatever. Left wingers have murdered more people than any other ideological group in the history of the world.

    When they start with this: your shared ideology makes you all guilty crap, my eyes glaze over.

    Who’s murdered more people, socialists or people who oppose abortion?

    In America’s history, who’s killed more people, Democrats or people who oppose abortion?

    When liberal twats can go a century without dropping an atomic bomb on someone, then I’ll listen to their rants about the connection between shared ideology and violence.

    Until then, they can piss off.

    Dave Surls (8e0258)

  53. Efforts to minimize Ayers as only committing property damage are absurd. Efforts to compare Ayers and Roder are absurd, as Barcky was actually friends with Ayers. None of us, as far as I know, know Roder or condone what he did.

    http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0609/627959.html

    Why shouldn’t Leftists have to answer for this?

    JD (ca9da7)

  54. Bill Ayers and his group planned to bomb an officer’s club. The only thing that stopped it was that the bombmakers blew themselves up. Ayers girlfriend was killed and Ayers became a fugitive.

    He didn’t kill anyone, yes, but it was only by accident.

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  55. More accurately, we don’t know of anyone that Ayers specifically killed. But there is still much that is unknown about the Weather Underground’s activities.

    SPQR (72771e)

  56. Ayers is an idiot and people don’t defend what he did 40 years ago.
    This is about now, about incitement and threats now, about danger now, and the response to that danger, again: now.

    You’ve put yourselves in this position leftists put themselves in in 1970. “When is violence justified?”

    But the only reason you take the question seriously is when it involves your own beliefs. If you want to talk about abortion, the vietnam war the black panthers then let’s do it. But you don’t.
    You want simplicity you indulge in self-pity.
    Ayers was always an idiot and many people have said so. But he changed enough at least to be awarded man of the year in Chicago in a Daley[!] administration. That’s how Obama met him. Meanwhile the right has the terrorists and judging by the response the backers too [and remember McVeigh} and Tancredo and Buchanan have an employee who pleaded guilty to punching a black woman and calling her a nigger. last year!!
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/tancredos-karate-chopping-racist-aide-also-works-for-pat-buchanan.php?ref=fpblg
    But Sotomayor is a racist.
    the republican party is shrinking. “Divisive” means you’re dividing yourselves from the rest of the country.

    bored again christian (e65df2)

  57. Yes, people do defend it, bac .20.

    We have not put ourselves in any position. You and your ilk are trying to do so, and some of us will not allow you do so. We will point out your lies and note that you are a liar every time you do so.

    How many names do you post under, and why do you continually link to TPM as though it is some kind of Bible?

    Or, we could simply note that you and yours have blood on your hands for the murders in Little Rock this morning. See what I did there?

    JD (ca9da7)

  58. If “The Left” is just one big homogeneous group, so too are “The Anti-abortionists.”

    No narrative, just logic.

    poon (093c46)

  59. Hmmm, now people who murder or attempt murder are just “idiots” if they are on the Left. What an amusing point of view, bac.

    Vacuous, but amusing.

    SPQR (72771e)

  60. I love how it is always the conservatives that are being divisive. The Dems are always so nice, congenial, unitey, and bipartisan.

    JD (ca9da7)

  61. bac – Yes, Ayers is an ‘idiot’. He’s also an accomplice to murder, as the nail bomb explosion that killed his friends was part of an organized effort by a group of which he was both a leader and a member to overthrow the government of the US. They even made a declaration of war against the US. That he was not prosecuted for such is something he celebrates.

    In contrast, Roeder hated an individual, was not part of an organized command structure issuing orders, and has not received the blessings of any organization for this act.
    Please point to the organization from which Roeder received instructions to murder Tiller. Absent a hierarchical structure, the attempt to link Roeder to the anti abortion position is ridiculous.

    Also, its quite interesting that Roeder’s links to the truther movement (something far more indicative of mental instability) aren’t highlighted in the press. Wonder why that is?

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  62. Ayers was always an idiot and many people have said so. But he changed enough at least to be awarded man of the year in Chicago in a Daley[!] administration. That’s how Obama met him.

    So, you’re saying that if the guy who shot Tiller repents and is awarded man of the year in Chicago, it’d be okay for a Republican candidate to meet with him?

    In the first place, Ayers hadn’t changed all that much. He hasn’t expressed any remorse for the property or lives he destroyed.

    Meanwhile the right has the terrorists and judging by the response the backers too

    Kooks and terrorists abound on both sides. Witness groups like PETA and the far more destructive ALF and ELF. (And wasn’t it a deranged lefty Communist who shot JFK?) They have lots of backers, as well. It doesn’t make leftists guilty any more than one lone nut makes those on the right guilty.

    Has anyone else noticed that these killings only seem to take place under a Democrat President? I blame Clinton and Obama.

    Steverino (69d941)

  63. From Tiller’s Clinic
    Admission Criteria
    In order to offer you an appointment, we require that a physician refer you to our center. In addition, we need your genetic counselor or doctor to provide us with gestational and diagnostic information regarding your pregnancy. Over the past twenty-five years, we have had experience with pregnancy terminations in such situations as anencephaly, Trisomy 13, 18, and 21, polycystic kidney disease, spina bifida, hydrocephalus, Potter’s syndrome, lethal dwarfism, holoprosencephaly, anterior and posterior encephalocele, non-immune hydrops, and a variety of other very significant abnormalities.

    Look’em up yourself

    bored again christian (e65df2)

  64. “They have lots of backers, as well.”
    Oh yeah, they have members of congress lining up top defend them. And Tucker Carlson And Bill O’Reilly too.
    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200906010013
    Tiller is like the Nazis and Al Qaeda.

    I’m love to hear the response in Greenwald asked his readers about the morality of violence. But extremism in the cause of liberty is no vice I guess. If you’re a rightist.

    bored again christian (e65df2)

  65. A hit man performs murder for money. What did Tiller do? In a civilized society this man would not have been in business.

    A civilized society does not sanction partial birth abortions nor the murder of innocent children.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  66. These are not children. And the notion that they are brings up a key aspect to all of this that hasn’t been commented on very much as far as I can tell.

    Religion concerns itself with life after death. Anti-abortion hysterics apparently believe there’s life before life.

    The real answer to the question “Where does life begin?” isn’t “at conception.” is too late. For the abortion-obsessed it obviously begins with sexual desire itself.

    The moment that John and Jane decide to “do it” means that a child has been “pre-born.” Clearly nothing should stand in John and Jane’s way. This is why not only is abortion murder, so is condom use.

    Vivian Louise — what is life like before life? Please describe it to me.

    David Ehrenstein (5d177a)

  67. Considering abortion is one of the most divisive moral and political subjects in the U.S., Newsy does a good job here of providing insightful news perspectives from different sides on this recent controversial and tragic event.

    Obviously, it would be good if those on both sides of this issue could reach some common ground, but like some things, it doesn’t appear this will happen for quite some time in this country.

    Mark (c6f9e9)

  68. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/randall-terry-george-tiller-reaped-what-he-sowed.php?ref=fpb

    Randall Terry, today.

    “”The point that must be emphasized over, and over, and over again: pro-life leaders and the pro-life movement are not responsible for George Tiller’s death. George Tiller was a mass-murder and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed…

    Thank you for coming, unless there’s any other questions. And I truly am sorry that we had to meet under these circumstances. I like Guinness for those of you who want to have a beer somewhere. I prefer my chicken wings really hot and a little crispy.”

    bored again christian (e65df2)

  69. Wow, that’s some real purty sources ya got going on there, BAC. It reads like the Cavalcade of nutbag screechers – Media Matters, Rick Ellers – what, no Man/Bear/Pig or Olberdouche? You’re slipping.

    Dmac (1ddf7e)

  70. […] then every time something like this happens the whole political media just explodes. You got leftists pointing fingers over here and who knows what the people who watch O’Reilly are thinking. I suppose many of them are […]

    NearlyEmpty » Blog Archive » Murder for abortion for O’Reilly (8144ee)

  71. “Kooks and terrorists abound on both sides.”

    Nah, the whole thing is a tempest in a teapot.

    For example:

    Since 1977 (when abortion became legal by SCOTUS fiat) somewhere around 500,000 people have been murdered in the United States. During that period, according to the L.A. Times article, eight people have been killed by anti-abortionist fanatics in the USA and Canada.

    There’s lots of violence, lots of killing, but hardly any of it is carried out by political fanatics for political reasons (not counting foreign Muslim terrorists, of course).

    It happens, but not very often.

    Dave Surls (90efbf)

  72. The subject is the killing of doctors who provide abortions, not “foreign Muslim terrorists.”

    David Ehrenstein (a42e9d)

  73. Events like 9/11 don;t happen very often either. So I guess we shouldn’t be concerned about it at all.

    David Ehrenstein (a42e9d)

  74. “Butyric acid attacks.”

    Our noble journalist throws that in. If he had checked the facts out as journalistic standards presumably state and used Google, he would’ve found out it isn’t remotely like any of the others, even “fake anthrax”. Butyric acid is a fatty acid. It’s what gives the smell to parmesan cheese, as well as rancid butter, vomit, and other disgusting but non-dangerous things. It won’t eat through things like sulfuric or hydrochloric acid will, as a lot of your readers.

    Good on ya, noble journalist, for gratuitously stoking hysteria. What next? Mobs with torches? Lynchings?

    Jim C. (b33a68)

  75. How many names has bored again christian been banned under?

    JD (6675bb)

  76. This act of terrorism was intended to, and will have the effect of, limiting women’s access to choice. Those who want to negate the effects of this terrorist can donate to organizations such as:

    http://www.ms4c.org/

    imdw (7ae49a)

  77. How has anyone’s access to choice been limited. There is not one single woman in the entire US that cannot have an abortion today, that could yesterday. There is not one single woman in the US that has been denied an abortion as a result of this. imdw is just being its normal dishonest self. The bleating of the trolls continues apace.

    JD (6675bb)

  78. “How has anyone’s access to choice been limited.”

    Do you know how many other doctors do the work that tiller did? Why was he so singled out by the anti-choicers? What sort of deterrent effect does this and the other terrorism and harassment directed at the practices of doctors like Tiller do to the supply of this service?

    Just think about what you know about the market. You think, at the minimum, this sort of thing increases cost? Lowers supply? What do you think that does to the accessibility of a service?

    Really, you think killing doctors who perform a procedure DOESNT limit access to that procedure? You’re really going to argue that because you’re that ideologically stupid? Please.

    imdw (9f3034)

  79. bac – unless there’s any other questions.

    Yeah, the one I asked initially, asking for proof of a hierarchical link to any anti abortion organization. Not just someone who didn’t like Tiller, but someone who gave an order to Roeder to kill Tiller. It’s the glaring difference between someone like Ayers and someone like Roeder. If someone kills OJ in prison, is Vince Bugliosi responsible because he wrote “Outrage”?

    Ayers and the WU organization is a whole different thing, and since you didn’t answer it the first time, let me repeat it. Where is the proof of an organizational operation that issued orders for Roeder to kill Tiller? The presence of a group that is actually organizing acts of violence is far different (and far worse) than a group that cites vengeance by a deity as an explanation for previously occurring events. That you misconstrue those two indicates that you either don’t understand the difference or wish to conflate the difference.

    In your scenario everyone with an opinion is guilty of any of the actions of anyone sharing that opinion. Even accepting that idea, the fact that you fail so miserably to consistently log the results of such behavior as it applies to all groups is good enough reason to ignore your comments.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  80. Is anyone keeping track of the number of lives he saved?

    Paul (ae3b0b)

  81. Paul – Who is the “he” you are referring to?

    JD (6675bb)

  82. imdw – Name one woman that cannot have an abortion today that could yesterday. Just one. You cannot because they do not exist. Nobody’s rights have been taken away. If someone wants an abortion they can still get one. It was wrong to kill this guy, even though I think he was a monster. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Fry Roder. But you go further an posit a loss of access to services that simply does not exist, beyond your assertion. It takes no ideological blinders to arrive at that conclusion. It is still legal for any woman to go have the abortions that Dr. Tiller offered.

    JD (6675bb)

  83. I refer to the infants who would have suffered and I quote”Over the past twenty-five years, we have had experience with pregnancy terminations in such situations as anencephaly, Trisomy 13, 18, and 21, polycystic kidney disease, spina bifida, hydrocephalus, Potter’s syndrome, lethal dwarfism, holoprosencephaly, anterior and posterior encephalocele, non-immune hydrops, and a variety of other very significant abnormalities.
    “,also the mothers who were at risk from their pregnancies.If any of you would want to have been born with a lethal birth defect ,speak up please

    Paul (ae3b0b)

  84. Seriuosly, killing people, one of the few people, who provide a service does not reduce access to that service. That’s the line you’re going with. Supply, demand, all that, out hte window, huh?

    How many more people like Tiller can be killed before access is reduced you think? All of them? Enough to make sure nobody enters this business? Enough to make it so that you have to factor in security in the cost of the service?

    People keep saying that this terrorist prevented abortions. You think they’re wrong? That’s your line?

    imdw (803b85)

  85. I am not promoting the idea that any of them should be killed, or should have been killed, so you can just shove your assumptions up your ass, liar. One murder is going to stop people from joining that profession? Really? Since Roe vs. Wade came down, how many people have been murdered in this country, and compare that number to the number of people that have been killed because of their jobs at abortion clinics. Clearly, it is an epidemic, or at least you and your ilk would like it to be viewed that way.

    I do not think he was a terrorist, and I do not think he prevented even one abortion, so yes, I think they are wrong.

    JD (6675bb)

  86. Note how casually the Leftist refers to this as terrorism, but in the thread where an actual suspected terrorist murders a US serviceman, it attempted to deflect from the topic.

    JD (6675bb)

  87. C’mon, JD. Say it with me.

    “That’s different™!”

    Sigh. The mantra of the Left.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  88. Oh, and imdw? Have you asked Mike K—an agnostic physician who is not anti-abortion—about Dr. Tiller?

    You really should.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  89. That’s different, Eric. Mike K is a conservative wingnut, not to be trusted, or something like that.

    JD (6675bb)

  90. I agree J.D : “terrorist” is a bad description.In what has now become all too familiar an event, we dont seem to be terrified by it.It,s just another act by a misguided and probably, mentally unbalanced person.

    Paul (ae3b0b)

  91. imsw – Late term abortions are banned in 36 states. Why do you think that is? According to one of the reports, only three doctors were performing some of the late term procedures such as Tiller. Why do you think that is? Surely not the fear of violence, which has been so isolated. Tiller made a lot of money for people to be scared off by ineffective threats.

    I think you need a new schtick hunee.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  92. It may be true, but the idea that this guy was 1 of 3 doctors that perform these kinds of abortions seems, not right. If these are legal in 14 states, it really does not seem logical that there are only 3 doctors that cover all 14 states.

    JD (6675bb)

  93. “One murder is going to stop people from joining that profession? Really? ”

    There are other murders of abortion doctors you know? There is other terrorism, that Tiller and his clinic have faced too.

    He was one of three performing abortions after the 21st week. You think killing a doctor at 33% of the suppliers of a service doesn’t impact access to that service? You think that doesn’t make people think twice before going into that business that 33% of the clinics providing that service have had a doctor first wounded, then killed? Not to mention the other vandalism they face?

    imdw (688568)

  94. There have been 8 murders of people working performing abortions since Roe v. Wade, imdw. Hardly an epidemic. You should go to medical school and learn how to do these procedures if they are so important, imdw. Really. If you care that much, you should do it. Or are you a chicken-late term abortionist?

    JD (6675bb)

  95. “You should go to medical school and learn how to do these procedures if they are so important, imdw.”

    I provided where people who want to counteract this terrorist can help people do that:

    http://www.ms4c.org/

    I’m not in med school or even considering it. But I would be afraid to enter this field. Another clinic performing this service has had a doctor whose farm and house were burned down. So that’s 66% facing terrorism. Bets on whether the third has had any problems? I wouldn’t want to face these odds.

    Eventually these doctors will pass. If no-one enters the field, you think access will be denied then? Only then?

    imdw (490521)

  96. There is that terrorism meme again. I do not care to discuss this with you, as you do not do so in good faith. You want this to be an epidemic of terrorism so you can push your agenda. I get that.

    People have provided you with evidence that these procedures are never done to save the life of the mother, and obviously they do not save the life of a child, so if at some point in time someone is inconvenienced by being unable to abort a baby that late in the process, I really do not give a sh*t.

    In imdw’s world, doctor’s will be forced to do these procedures.

    JD (6675bb)

  97. “You want this to be an epidemic of terrorism so you can push your agenda. I get that.”

    I don’t know if it is an epidemic, but it IS all of the providers of a service under threat and attack and having 33% of them…dead.

    “I really do not give a sh*t. ”

    Yeah we could guess from your line what would happen to access.

    “In imdw’s world, doctor’s will be forced to do these procedures.”

    No see, they wont. That’s why it’s important to keep the ones who do safe from terrorists, and to make sure we support new ones.

    imdw (017d51)

  98. You don’t know if it is an epidemic, you are just asking the tough questions, right?

    You do not care about access. This is a political football for you. You are calling this guy a terrorist, while ignoring the apparent actual terrorist that murdered a US serviceman. You want to score political points, and smear those that disagree with you. There are no high minded lofty ideals behind what you are doing. You are trolling, nothing different than you normally do. I am sure your friends at firedoglake or Kos will give you high fives when you return and regale them with tales of how you ventured into the heart of wingnuttia.

    Why do you wingnuts want to kill of all of the supply and access to late term abortions?

    JD (6675bb)

  99. Who is this “we” in the “to make sure we support new ones”? Nobody, but nobody, is having their ability to choose this as a career inhibited, quite the contrary.

    JD (6675bb)

  100. imdw – There are plenty of early term abortion providers. If they are already performing abortions, why do so many of the doctors choose not to perform the late term procedures, if the reference to only three providers is accurate?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  101. “You do not care about access. This is a political football for you.”

    That’s why here I go not wading into the political discussion about o’reilly and whatver, but instead just talk about access.

    “Who is this “we” in the “to make sure we support new ones””

    We who care to counter-act the effects of this terrorism. I said so at the beginning.

    “Nobody, but nobody, is having their ability to choose this as a career inhibited, quite the contrary.”

    There have been some nice inspirational words about those committed to choice not being scared away. But like I said above, the odds aren’t good.

    “why do so many of the doctors choose not to perform the late term procedures, if the reference to only three providers is accurate?”

    I suspect going forward it will have to do with the 33% death rate. Going back, the threat of that and other harassment was probably an important cause.

    imdw (4fe3dc)

  102. That is so fundamentally dishonest to claim that there is a 33% death rate for partial brith abortion providers. On many levels.

    We still await your explanation of the medical need for this procedure. Dr K and the AMA provided some excellent information above, which you just breezily passed over.

    JD (d6df01)

  103. #66

    Please describe the common ground that can be achieved on late term abortions. Compromising with evil isn’t reaching common ground its lack of moral fiber.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  104. The death of Tiller was terrorism. I guess in the sense that Bin Laden’s execution would be perceived by some as terrorism.

    Its sad that there are some so debauched that they accept abortion as a norm, without a corresive and dabsing effect on the soul. Such are the sould of the souless, the moral compass of the people that manned the ovens.

    Thomas Jackson (8ffd46)

  105. “We still await your explanation of the medical need for this procedure”

    I leave that to women and their doctors to determine. Radical liberal fascist isn’t it?

    imdw (1bf27e)

  106. Here we go — terrorism doing its work:

    Murdered Doctor’s Clinic Is Shuttered
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/us/10abortion.html

    imdw (f9280d)

  107. Guess Tiller was the only one with a backbone – Carhart only seems able to run his mouth.

    AD - RtR/OS! (de37bf)

  108. “Guess Tiller was the only one with a backbone – Carhart only seems able to run his mouth.”

    It’s not really his clinic. Don’t see too many people in a hurry to enter a field with a 33% death-by-terrorism rate.

    imdw (de7003)

  109. He seemed to work there quite a bit.
    If the work was as important as he seems to think it is (at least that seems to be the impression in all of the interviews that he’s given) then you would think that he would stip-up and make sure that the clinic would continue its’ vital place in the community.

    But, it would seem that to Dr. Carhart, words – and Life – is cheap!

    AD - RtR/OS! (de37bf)

  110. “make sure that the clinic would continue its’ vital place in the community.”

    But I don’t think that’s his decision to make. It was the Tiller family’s.

    Even if I work at my job quite a bit, it don’t make it my office to make decisions about.

    “But, it would seem that to Dr. Carhart, words – and Life – is cheap!”

    That is certainly an odd conclusion.

    imdw (c990d8)


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