Patterico's Pontifications

10/2/2017

Las Vegas Shooting

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:41 am

This is a hell of a thing to wake up to. Reports are 50 dead and 400 injured. There is nothing I can say other than my condolences to the victims and their families, and beware initial reports. It certainly would be nice not to politicize it.

301 Responses to “Las Vegas Shooting”

  1. I agree, Patterico. But sadly, #TrollNation will not be able to resist.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  2. we don’t know yet but that it wasn’t political

    we just don’t know

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. There are reports of terror and panic, but also of bravery and caring for others. There are strange reports about a warning. But, at this point, what matters is the victims and their families. Bless them.

    DRJ (d35869)

  4. So very sad, hope everyone involved will be able to cope and check back into reality.

    mg (31009b)

  5. There’s a video of one guy just standing there, taking a sip of something from a tall blue can, and giving the shooter the finger while automatic fire is heard. There was not much else he could do — he was hemmed in by a lot of people and the shooter was up high in a building across the arena anyway.

    nk (dbc370)

  6. Daughter and her boyfriend are staying next door at the Luxor… the concert venue is across the street… told me it was scarier than hell, they’d blacked out the lights on the Strip, the hotels. We’re thankful they’re both okay. What a helluva thing. Thoughts and prayers for those who lost their lives to this coward and those still fighting for their lives.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  7. O Lord, have mercy on us. Give strength and comfort to the grieving.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  8. This shooting incident seems to share remarkably similar elements with the Texas Tower shooting many years ago especially no apparent motive and an excessive number of weapons. Perhaps an autopsy will reveal a brain tumor.

    ropelight (051652)

  9. This guy came to mind

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

    Ben burn (101c24)

  10. “It certainly would be nice not to politicize it.”

    Would be very nice but I’ve already seen it blamed on white supremacy by Tariq Nasheed.

    Not sure why a white supremacist would shoot up a country music concert filled with white folk but crazy is crazy.

    https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/10/02/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-tariq-nasheed-already-blaming-white-supremacy-for-mass-shooting-in-lv/

    harkin (166824)

  11. Wow, Col. You and the family must be relieved.

    mg (31009b)

  12. A white supremacist attacking country music fans? This is a brain tumor or MKUltra.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/americas-mass-school-shooting-epidemic-the-story-of-the-1966-clock-tower-sniper/5539541/amp

    Ben burn (101c24)

  13. Wow coronello,

    Sonetines evil doesn’t fit an easy explanation

    On Twitter doubt is removed readily

    narciso (d1f714)

  14. There’s more than 50 dead. It’s just that they stopped counting, because 50 breaks the record, which was 49, set in Orlando, Florida. At first they said 200 wounded, now they say 400, but it should be understood this ranges from severely life threatening injuries to receiving a band aid for a bruise.

    This is a very unusual case in some respects, and in others it is typical. Very unusual: The killer was 64 years old without any or an extremely minor police record, and lived in a retirement community about 100 miles away. Typical: He killed himself. What that means is that he had decided to kill himself before he did this, and after that, everything to him was a freebie.

    We don’t know what, if any, “cause” he had. It’s not radical Islamic terrorism, since his name is something like Stephen Paddock, and no hint of anything related has emerged, and probably not environmentalism or white supremacy. Lost a lot of money in a casino; probably not. His wife left him; that doesn’t seem to be the case, although she was travelling outside the country during the several days in which killer arranged this. His wife looks Asian. She was at first a person of interest when they couldn’t locate her.

    The thing is, of course, human beings don’t need a reason to commit horrible crimes. It’s best not to assume there is a reason, and in the absence of a reason you don’t need to worry.

    He is thought not to have a car – at lest they were saying someone drove him there – but later they said he checked into the hotel on Sept 28. The site was almost certainly not picked at random, and it wasn’t the closest hotel, but he seems to have aimed at the largest death toll. He must have made several trips up and down the elevaor to take all these guns into his room. He waited until the climax of the country music festival.

    This happened at about 10 pm, although national news reports didn’t come in until later. He shot down from the balcony of the 32nd floor. People didn’t know where the shots were coming from and they ran in all directions. The shots stopped for a while and then resumed. He had to replace a magazine, obviously.

    A SWAT team went up to the door of his hotel room, once I guess they figured out or saw where the shots were coming from, and when they got there he committed suicide.

    To the people there it seemed to last maybe 15 minutes, but in reality it lasted about 8 minutes from beginning to end.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  15. Coincidentally, yesterday, my first wife and I were discussing how the mentally ill make their problems other people’s problems, and she mentioned the Germanwings Flight 9525 where the pilot committed suicide by crashing his plane into a mountain with 144 people aboard.

    nk (dbc370)

  16. There is continous coverage on CBS. Donald Trump spoke or will will soon be speaking. It was said to be scheduled for 7:30 a Pacific time. Current time in Las Vegas, Nevada, United States ‎(UTC-7)‎
    7:46:29 AM.

    The 400 plus wounded is the number of people taken to hospitals. Nobody is giving exact umbers – if they did theyd have to keep updating the number every few minutes. It’s just that it’s above 400 wounded and above 50 killed.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  17. No religious, political affiliations according to his brother..opiods?

    http://www.globalnewscentre.com/duty-to-warn-the-red-lake-school-shootings-10th-anniversary/#sthash.TB6ZespH.pWiH8Omg.dpbs

    Ben burn (101c24)

  18. The NYT didn’t waste any time, striking while the blood is still warm with a tirade about guns. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/opinion/mass-shooting-vegas.html Link only for reference, not worth your time.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. Thank God Trump stayed on teleprompter

    Ben burn (101c24)

  20. It was a rough night here, mg and narciso, hard to sleep. We are very thankful, but my Lord, what a thing for those people to have to go through… the horror and terror of it all. The last time I’d driven by the murderer’s hometown – Mesquite, NV – in late 2012, I remember it had grown a bit since the last driveby before that (2004), but that’s not saying much. If you weren’t a dedicated, fanatical golfer it looked like you were SOL.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  21. Daughter and her boyfriend are staying next door at the Luxor… the concert venue is across the street… told me it was scarier than hell, they’d blacked out the lights on the Strip, the hotels. We’re thankful they’re both okay. What a helluva thing. Thoughts and prayers for those who lost their lives to this coward and those still fighting for their lives.

    I’m glad they’re OK, Colonel.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  22. Thx, Mr. P

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  23. Theer’s a special number (I didn’t take it down) for family members of people who fear that their loved ones may be caught up in it. They don’t want people to call 911.

    Here i alink:

    http://www.whio.com/news/national/how-check-loved-ones-after-deadly-las-vegas-shooting/CfehEkrfhL801ZGenh0KhL/

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  24. Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit posted that it was someone who hated Trump. Then it turned out he had the wrong guy and he deleted the post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  25. I am glad for President Trump’s calm statement.

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. @24

    Wow!

    Ben burn (101c24)

  27. The issue of automatic fire will become evermore important. How the shooter got access to such weapons will likely lead to a series of hard questions and even more pointed conclusions.

    ropelight (051652)

  28. biotch clinton is glad no silencer was involved.
    what a c word.

    mg (31009b)

  29. It’s not that difficult to take a semi to select fire.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  30. She was on her 5th Bloody Mary, mg…

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  31. It certainly would be nice not to politicize it.

    ….

    Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit posted that it was someone who hated Trump. Then it turned out he had the wrong guy and he deleted the post.

    ….

    I suggest everyone give it 24 hours. Large sums of cash this is not a Trump Supporter raining bullets down on a Country Music Festival.

    Pictures from the Telegraph are gruesome.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  32. I second what others have written, Colonel: I’m glad your daughter and her friend are okay. Every parent’s nightmare.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  33. “Although the link between murders and antidepressants in cases referred to the MHRA do not mean the drugs caused the events, Prof Tyrer told programme-makers that the extreme side effects of the drugs should be investigated further.

    “You can never be quite certain with a rare side-effect whether it’s linked to a drug or not because it could be related to other things,” he said.

    “But it’s happened just too frequently with this class of drug to make it random. It’s obviously related to the drug but we don’t know exactly why.”
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/07/25/antidepressants-linked-murders-murderous-thoughts/amp/

    Ben burn (101c24)

  34. In Nevada, machine guns are as easy to get as slot machines. They are legal under Nevada law and all you need to do is pay the federal tax. The only curb is high price due to their relative scarcity (there have not been any civilian-transferable machine guns registered since 1986).

    nk (dbc370)

  35. Many stories contradict whether cops shot him or he was dead on their arrival. Might have been good to take him alive.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  36. This was just a mad individual, a demon.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  37. I am very glad your daughter and her friend are ok, Colonel Haiku. I know it must be upsetting for you, them and your families. To take a joyful trip and see it turn into tragedy is traumatic.

    DRJ (15874d)

  38. Surely the main goal, the only goal, should have been to stop him, Ben burn. We can figure out why he did it later.

    DRJ (15874d)

  39. Just popping back in to say I’m grateful that your family is safe Colonel. Prayers to the families of the victims and the survivors.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  40. Former Lockheed (skunk works?) Employee, licensed pilot.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  41. ISIS is claiming responsibility and so far it’s the most likely motive. Time will tell.

    ropelight (051652)

  42. Most likely motive?

    Eh?

    Ben burn (101c24)

  43. My cousin who is security somewhere else in the south Strip was relying reports from the various Police scanners. He was on a bus going home going NB as police and emergency responders headed SB.

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  44. Served on a jury with a Skunk Works guy..

    “Anything you can talk about?”

    “Nope “

    Ben burn (101c24)

  45. Hillary emerged from her spider hole long enough to reinforce her identity as an demented opportunist and misanthrope to Tweet:


    Hillary Clinton
    ‎@HillaryClinton

    Our grief isn’t enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again.

    10:04 AM – Oct 2, 2017

    Thank heaven the Tweet was from crazy Hillary and not President Hillary!

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  46. I thought we weren’t gonna politicize..

    Ben burn (101c24)

  47. The country music festival was in a building across the street. The man fired through a broken window, so that sounds like it wasn’t a balcony, and that he broke the window. Unless the balcony had windows. He had 10 rifles there. There were about 22,000 people present at the country music festival at the time of the crime.

    The firing came in waves, not just two waves, like I implied. The SWAT team used explosives to blow open the door of the room on the 32nd floor – they found him dead inside, and think he most likely killed himself when he knew they coming in.

    There is, or was, a press conference going on. The death toll is up to 58, but the speaker just heard of someone who died in a hospital so he said that would make it 59. There are 515 wounded.

    They are still looking for survivors in hiding (and dead people) at the crime location, but the hotel has been re-opened except for the 32nd floor. They will be at the murder venue for quite a long time.

    Many people were taken to hospitals in private cars. That is considered the right thing to do because time is critical. EMS also can get some vital signs, but nobody should wait for EMS. The most important cause of death to worry about (if it is not immediate) is from bleeding, which they are still only now, after Boston, realizing the supreme importance of. A tourniquet, especially a military tourniquet, is best, not that most people have military tourniquets with them but EMS does. A tourniquet, any kind of a tourniquet, is much better than applying pressure to the wound.

    Last night on 60 Minutes there ws a story about Steve Scalese and what happene to him which can also teach you something. Steve Scalese recived 18 units of blood. he had internal injries and then they had to worry about treating infections. They are asking for blood donatons in Las Vegas and told people one particular to go and not to go to the other.

    They used triage in the hospitals, and also cleared out the emergency room before. Hospitals, at least some of them, drill for this.

    One hospital in Las Vegas, about 5 miles from the event, is the only major trauma center in the state of Nevada. It handled 104 patients, of which 12 were in critical condition, and 4 died there.

    The killer spent some of his time in casinos gambling, but this is thought to have been just to pass the time. This was extremely premeditated.

    20. Colonel Haiku (43fb26) — 10/2/2017 @ 7:58 am

    …The last time I’d driven by the murderer’s hometown – Mesquite, NV – in late 2012, I remember it had grown a bit since the last driveby before that (2004), but that’s not saying much.

    It’s grown some more now since then. The section where the killer lived has only been there for about a year, so that is probably all the time that he lived in Mesquite. He lived in a cul de sac, and there may be a bigger section with only one way in and out.

    When they executed the search warrant, about 10:30 Eastern time or 7:30 Pacific time, they told all the neighbors to get away because they didn’t know what they would find – maybe it was booby-trapped with explosives like with the joker in Aurora, Colorado – but now the neighbors have nothing to worry about, nor did they uncover any links to other people.

    ISIS or someone claiming to be ISIS claimed responsibility somewhere – nothing about this case looks like that might be true. In other words, they think it is a lie and fall just short of definitively saying they are lying. Next thing: ISIS or al Qaeda will claim to have demolished both Yankee and Shea stadiums, and the Houston Astrodome.

    The Las Vegas police department will release whatever details are released of what they at his home. This will not come from the Mesquite police. Meanwhile they found another location in northern Nevada to search.

    Flags across the country are now at half staff. President Trump will not be seen in public the rest of the day.

    8. ropelight (051652) — 10/2/2017 @ 7:21 am

    This shooting incident seems to share remarkably similar elements with the Texas Tower shooting many years ago

    I think that was the first one.

    27. ropelight (051652) — 10/2/2017 @ 8:14 am

    The issue of automatic fire will become evermore important. How the shooter got access to such weapons will likely lead to a series of hard questions and even more pointed conclusions. </blockquotes. He was a licensed hunter. What I've said is that the only person who has a use for a gun that shoots a lot of bullets without reloading is someone like this. A defender, not even the police, except in the rarest of circumstances, doesn't need it, because they need to aim.

    It really would make sense to get rid of all magazines with more than 6 rounds. Even 6 is too much in fact. Three or four would be more like it, with the fourth needing an extra step to be fired. The change to larger capacity weapons has only made large casualty tolls like this possible.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  48. It’s not clear to me that Stephen Paddock was the murderer. He may have been the first victim, an innocent tourist who was murdered so his room could be used as a shooting stand.

    nk (dbc370)

  49. CBS stopped its continuous coverage, but the TODAY show on NBC is still going on.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  50. The knee jerkers come out of the gate with the memes of habit.

    Progressives cannot comprehend how gun sales could increase with things like this. No one wants to get shot without having a chance to defend yourself from evildoers.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  51. NK saw ‘Shooter’

    Ben burn (101c24)

  52. Just awful. I’m sick.

    Dianna (b7aa4f)

  53. nk (dbc370) — 10/2/2017 @ 9:38 am

    It’s not clear to me that Stephen Paddock was the murderer. He may have been the first victim, an innocent tourist who was murdered so his room could be used as a shooting stand. </blockquote. They don't seem to have any doubts. They would know the registered owners of the gun. I wonder how long such a misperception could persist, and then there is the question, if there was somebody else, or other people, where did they go?

    Paddock was also a licensed pilot, by the way, in addition to being alicensed hunter, but that may not men anything except that maybe he was an outdoorsman.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  54. For it not to be Paddock, they’d not only have to have the murderer wrong, but the shooting stand wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  55. You have great misconceptions about guns, Sammy, including their “registration”.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. #34, nk, I’m not unfamiliar with firearms, and I lived in Reno, Nevada for 3 years. Not once did I ever encounter automatic weapons, simi-autos – sure, lots of them, but no automatics. Not once were autos said to be on the market, not even on the black market.

    Do you have knowledge of automatics for sale, or are you repeating fanciful scuttlebutt?

    ropelight (051652)


  57. 46.I thought we weren’t gonna politicize..
    Ben burn (101c24) — 10/2/2017 @ 9:35 am

    I know, crazy isn’t it Ben burn? She starts off with “We can and must put politics aside,” then immediately politicizes with “stand up to the NRA,”. I don’t think they realize what they’re saying half the time. They just mutter propaganda.

    I thought we weren’t gonna politicize either but Hillary didn’t get the memo. Either that or “we” means us not them.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  58. A little gunsmithing easily CONVERTS semi to auto. They don’t sell them at Turners. :)

    Ben burn (101c24)

  59. I think they have records of who first bought a gun, and they know the make and model and date of manufacture. Maybe it does take time to search the records.

    I did find this:

    https://www.yellowpages.com/las-vegas-nv/used-guns-for-sale

    I also heard something about this weappon being unusual. And all those weapons and all that ammunition would be heavy – so therefire of course, multiple trips. Where was he keeping them? he didn’t buy them over the weekend, did he, or what?

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  60. “Suddenly”, with Frank Sinatra.

    We might never know the truth. Las Vegas police are less like police and more like mob torpedoes protecting their bosses’ rackets. The story we get will be the story least likely to deter the flow of suckers going to Las Vegas to give their money to the casinos.

    nk (dbc370)

  61. It’s mourning in America.

    Again.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. 57. Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7) — 10/2/2017 @ 9:52 am

    Either that or “we” means us not them.

    No, she means agreeing with the NRA is politics, and without a political motive everyone would be opposing the NRA.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  63. Class III dealers in Nevada. That’s guys who sell machine guns. Among other things.

    nk (dbc370)

  64. If you belong to a shooting range or a gun club you will become cognizant of full autos available for sale. Being able to afford or qualify to own one is a complete other story.

    Or perhaps you could stumble upon one of Eric Holders Fast and Furious pieces still available? Then you don’t need to qualify or be licensed. Wouldn’t it be surreal if this were the case here? A F&F weapon modified to full auto. Wow!

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  65. Hoagie: I’m satisfied that Trump didn’t go rogue.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  66. There’s a video of one guy just standing there, taking a sip of something from a tall blue can, and giving the shooter the finger while automatic fire is heard. There was not much else he could do — he was hemmed in by a lot of people and the shooter was up high in a building across the arena anyway.

    I hope to God that I never find myself in that situation, but if I do I also hope that I face it was that much élan and sang froid (apologies for the French, but those were the best two words I could come up with). I pray that guy isn’t one of the dead, but if he is then he went out like a champion.

    JVW (42615e)

  67. The mood in Las Vegas today reminds NBC’s Lester Holt of the mood in Las Vegas after the MGM Grand Hotel fire in 1980, which killed 85 people. (That was in fact the very first story Lester Holt covered inn Las Vegas.)

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)


  68. No, she means agreeing with the NRA is politics, and without a political motive everyone would be opposing the NRA.

    That makes no sense, Sammy. Agreeing with or opposing the NRA is a political stand. Without a political motive there would be no need for the NRA. The woman’s a ditz. She’s probably just hung over. When she sobers up she’ll correct her tweets. Or delete them.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  69. Ditto what so many others have said, Col. H: Glad your daughter and her boyfriend are okay!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  70. nk@60. The movie “Suddenly” is fiction, and Las Vegas is not San Juan, Puerto Rico, where they can hide something as huge as a Teamsters strike during a emergency caused by a natural disaster (and then really, of course, not completely hide it, just keep it out of major media.)

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  71. The mood in Las Vegas today reminds NBC’s Lester Holt of the mood in Las Vegas after the MGM Grand Hotel fire in 1980, which killed 85 people. (That was in fact the very first story Lester Holt covered inn Las Vegas.)

    That fire caused Las Vegas to adopt strict new fire codes for hotels. It will be interesting to see if something similar happens now.

    JVW (42615e)

  72. It’s 6:40 am, and there is a line out the door and around the block. People waiting to donate blood at United Blood Services.

    compare or contrast this with whatever you like as you see fit

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. “I’m not unfamiliar with firearms, and I lived in Reno, Nevada for 3 years. Not once did I ever encounter automatic weapons, simi-autos – sure, lots of them, but no automatics. Not once were autos said to be on the market, not even on the black market.”

    I’m a long time desert rat, I’ve probably been on more desert dirt roads in CA and NV than ones I haven’t.

    I’ve seen thousands of guns out there and have never once seen a fully-auto.

    One thing’s for sure though, there are a lot more people carrying sidearms for protection over the past 10 years. And there’s more than one gun store I’ve visited with a photo of Chairman Zero and a caption saying SALESMAN OF THE YEAR.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  74. this gofundme seems legit

    I’m Steve Sisolak, Clark County Commission Chair from Las Vegas. We are raising funds to assist the victims of the tragic Las Vegas shooting. I spent last night with Sheriff Lombardo at Clark County’s only level-one trauma center.

    Funds will be used to provide relief and financial support to the victims and families of the horrific Las Vegas mass shooting​.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  75. The video is here, JVW. From around to 1:07 to 1:24.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. the comments at the gofundme link are astoundingly seemingly almost effortlessly unpolitical

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  77. No, she means agreeing with the NRA is politics, and without a political motive everyone would be opposing the NRA.

    68. Rev Hoagie® (6bbda7) — 10/2/2017 @ 10:09 am

    That makes no sense, Sammy

    To people who don’t allow Hillary and her frirends to do their thinking for them, but that’s not her target audience.

    Agreeing with or opposing the NRA is a political stand.

    The whole point of the tweet is to say the opposite: The NRA is so wrong that only politics can explain agreeinbg with the NRA. That’s what she wnts her followers to think.

    The woman’s a ditz. She’s probably just hung over. When she sobers up she’ll correct her tweets. Or delete them.

    If she’s a ditz, it would be because she thinks she can re-define reality. I mean, after all, doesn’t she do that all the time? Reality is what she says it is. The way she has it now, I think, FBI Director Comey hurt her in July 2016, rather than helped her.

    She thinks everbody was born yesterday. Unfortunately for her, it was just those very people who voted for Bernie Sanders.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  78. I think the multi-billion dollar casino industry can take care of supporting the victims and families without my contribution to a GoFundMe account.

    JVW (42615e)

  79. people want to do something is all i think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. The video is here, JVW. From around to 1:07 to 1:24.

    On second thought, I’m not all that thrilled about the guy potentially drawing fire to his area when he is surrounded by people who are taking cover. But I still admire the spirit.

    JVW (42615e)

  81. Don’t get all protective of BRA.

    Their agenda isn’t any more public minded than ACLU. They are gun manufacture lobbyists.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  82. people want to do something is all i think

    I get that. People should go donate blood at the Red Cross.

    JVW (42615e)

  83. BRA? NRA…

    Ben burn (101c24)

  84. There’s a difference between legally owning a machine gun and legally carrying in it public the way you carry a pistol, rifle or shotgun, but I am not going to argue facts easily confirmed by Al Gore’s wonderful invention.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. not all that thrilled about the guy potentially drawing fire to his area

    that was my first thought too but then i decided it was all a fish in a barrel situation anyways

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. Sammy, seriously, you don’t know what you are talking about regarding firearms. Yes, the ATF can trace ownership of a firearm where its legal sale/transfer was handled by a Federally licensed firearms dealer. Its rare that such tracing can be done in minutes or hours. It depends upon the length of the chain of ownership from manufacture.

    As NK said, Nevada does have a relatively large number of firearms regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 in civilian hands. (fully automatic firearms, short barreled rifles, suppressors, etc.) But because of cost and the difficulty of transfer, legally owned examples are still not exactly common. Typical cost is tens of thousands of dollars and up to a year waiting for ATF to approve each transfer.

    SPQR (240837)

  87. Ben burn, is there a reason you feel compelled to lie?

    SPQR (240837)

  88. 87

    Did I step on your tidey-whities?

    Ben burn (101c24)

  89. “Hillary Clinton
    ‎@HillaryClinton
    Our grief isn’t enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again.

    10:04 AM – Oct 2, 2017″

    This is so pure. Talking out of both sides of her cakehole in the span of 12 words.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  90. 80, with regard to mister Beer can, what if he was a “spotter” of sorts? I have grown to think spotters who mix among the crowd and the relay to yhe driver a preferred target (either randum or because of an insult or physical interaction) have been used in the vehicular attacks used mainly by islamists

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  91. NBC’s Pete William has a bit of new information as to how long this might have gone on,

    The first 911 call to police came at 10:08 pm Las Vegas time (of course it started a little before, and many people thought at first it was firecrackers, or pyrotechnics gone wrong.)

    The time when police breached the door of Paddock’s hotel room on the 32nd floor, blowing the door off with explosives, was 11:20 pm, but we don’t know how much before that the shooting stopped.

    So there’s window of 1 hour and 12 minutes during which he said the ordeal lasted.

    There were two broken windows in two different rooms of that hotel room that can be seen from the street. From the outside it looks like metal panels, but it’s just anti-glare coating and people can see out.

    When police got in, they fired a few bullets into Stephen Paddock, but they think he was dead before that (probably easy to tell – no bleeding for one thing.)

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  92. The guy probably had enough money to buy a licensed automatic weapon if he wanted (he owned two planes apparently), but it seems to me more likely that he converted a semi-auto instead, not a terribly difficult process.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  93. Its in his nature, spqr

    narciso (d1f714)

  94. CNN Jake Tapper fake news must be in meetings all morning

    do they pivot away from the Puerto Rico Genocide story for this?

    do they try to do both?

    but there’s just the one zone to flood

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  95. At best, to answer nk, I would say a pasty who facilitated the supply of weapons and ammo, but had to be disposed of once the real players were in the room.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooters-father-bingo-bruce-lived-colorful-life-crime-and-deception.html

    Interesting family history, though:

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  96. Shooter’s dad was a bank robber on the FBI most wanted list

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. Urban: fascinating. I guess that leaves skunk works out. No sec. clearance for Paddock.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  98. His brother, Eric Paddock, interviewed by the NBC affiliate WESH in Orlando, Florida, sys there was absolutely nothing (that could point to this) “and I can’t even make something up.”

    He didn’t want to, or wasn’t able to, say too much about what his brother did for money, but he managed to get out that they bought and sold houses for one thing.

    He said they should try to find out who sold his brother the machine guns.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  99. David French discusses some of the very odd things that stand out so far:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/452117/based-early-reports-las-vegas-shooting-very-very-strange

    SPQR (240837)

  100. It’s not clear to me that Stephen Paddock was the murderer.

    Yes, I had the same thought when the ducks refused to line up. If they find that the guns WERE registered to him, that would cinch it, but as a lot of folks have pointed out, if they were not it proves nothing.

    I’m seeing bits from the MSM about “trigger cranks” and other tools of mechanically simulating full-auto with a semi-auto rifle (a Gatling-type crank causing rapid trigger-pulls). Coupled, of course, with demands that such items be banned. Don’t know anything about those, but the audio from the concert sounds more like full-auto and reload/weapon-change breaks.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  101. It is hard to see how someone on limited means would accumulate 10 legal automatic weapons.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  102. Or 10 illegal ones. Some kind of conversion seems likely.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  103. Lots of weird sh’t.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

    Ben burn (101c24)

  104. As the US Supreme Court later noted in CIA v. Sims 471 U.S. 159 (1985) [14] MKULTRA was:

    concerned with “the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior.” The program consisted of some 149 subprojects which the Agency contracted out to various universities, research foundations, and similar institutions. At least 80 institutions and 185 private researchers participated. Because the Agency funded MKUltra indirectly, many of the participating individuals were unaware that they were dealing with the Agency.[15]

    Ben burn (101c24)

  105. When was the last time a fully automatic rifle was used to commit murder?

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  106. Ben, I have just the thing for you: http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

    SPQR (240837)

  107. 97. happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/2/2017 @ 10:44 am

    Shooter’s dad was a bank robber on the FBI most wanted list </blockquote. That in itself wouldn't mean anything, unless he followed in his father's footsteps, some way.

    Firmer New York City mayor Rudolph Giliani's father, Harold, was involved in crime, and spent 1 1/2 years in Sing Sing prison for robbing a milkman in 1934, which was about ten years before his son was born.

    He served as the “muscle” for a loan-sharking outfit, claiming that he “broke legs, smashed kneecaps [and] crunched noses” in the 1950s — and as late as the 1960s, took part in a gunfight on a Brooklyn street. (He died of prostate cancer at the age of 73 in 1981.)

    He also wanted to keep his son far away from all of that, like some others in the mob.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96601&page=1

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  108. Rev. Hoagie, my recollection is that the last time a fully automatic, legally owned, firearm was used for a homicide was by a Puerto Rican police officer in the ’80’s.

    SPQR (240837)

  109. Hollywood shoot out 90’s

    Ben burn (101c24)

  110. So..

    Patsy? False flag?

    Anti-depressants?

    Mind Control?

    Just a guy who was bored?

    Ben burn (101c24)

  111. Could be SPQR but Ben my have that with the bank robbery by the four guys. I can’t find anything. Which means I just don’t know how to look.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  112. I blame the Chinese for inventing gun powder.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  113. Rev. Hoagie, Ben burn is referring to the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout. Only the two bank robbers were killed, by police. They had several illegally converted full auto rifles.

    SPQR (240837)

  114. Waco?

    nk (dbc370)

  115. When was the last time a fully automatic rifle was used to commit murder?

    According to the NRO article, licensed fully-automatic weapons have been used in crimes 3 times since 1934. So, not a lot.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  116. Waco?

    Which side?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  117. 102 – “It is hard to see how someone on limited means would accumulate 10 legal automatic weapons.”

    If you’re talking Paddock, on the news among other info they said he was a licensed pilot and owned two planes.

    If so, his means weren’t that limited.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  118. Waco?

    Which side?

    Well, Hoagie did ask: When was the last time a fully automatic rifle was used to commit murder?

    nk (dbc370)

  119. My hub and I are currently sitting with friends whose son-in-law was killed in front of his wife at the concert. Their other kids were at the chospital ncert too. Being in law enforcement and an ICU nurse, the kids are now working to help locals. Our friends devastated beyond belief, as well as in shock. What isn’t helping them is the gun-control comments by politicians, and the idiot reporters questioning Sanders at the WH presser. It angers and hurts them because that is not what matters now, and it isn’t helpful at all but extremely hurtful. Their loved one was far more to them than a political volleyball. You can’t imagine how brutal a gun control discussion is right now. Other than Cooking for them and helping with the grandbabies here, there is nothing more we can to do but hold their hands and sit them in support.

    Dana (d959d2)

  120. Please convey sympathy dana.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  121. Bless you, Dana.

    mg (31009b)

  122. how brutal a gun control discussion is right now

    i can’t shake the idea though that the reason he picked the target he did might’ve been precisely cause he was some kind of rabid anti-gun person

    just a theory but it makes sense of all these weird facts we have so far

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  123. @120. Sympathies times 10 to the 23rd power, Dana. Do everything you can. When you know people with relatives and intimates killed by gun violence, the damage is for life.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?435044-1/gabby-giffords-mark-kelly-call-action-end-gun-violence

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  124. Glad your loved ones are safe, Col. Haiku!

    //

    Interesting theory by nk. But how would they get all the guns up there?

    Sure does seem like he, or whoever did it, sure did a lot of planning and practice. He had to have know about the concert and all the logistics of making sure it was within range of his room. There’s more to this story…

    Patricia (5fc097)

  125. Maybe ISIS is telling the truth, maybe they trained and supplied this guy. (Just read the French article.)

    Patricia (5fc097)

  126. ISIS couldn’t plan a trip to the crapper.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  127. i don’t get this idea that it’s super-hard to get a bunch of guns through a hotel lobby and up the elevator

    you have your guns in a big duffle – they make crazy big ones and the people what have them don’t look like gun smugglers they usually look rather well-heeled and sportsy

    you check in with no luggage

    you go back to the lobby and grab one of the fancy rolly-carts

    you go out to your car and put your gun duffle on the cart, hang a suit bag, and throw whatever other luggage you have on the cart

    then you roll the cart back to the lobby and into the elevator

    you go up to your floor and to your room and then you unload everything

    then you can either leave your rolly-cart by the elevator (rude) or take it back downstairs (thoughtful)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  128. Hardshell golf bags. See them at airport roundels all the time.

    nk (dbc370)

  129. yes yes golf bags wouldn’t look out of place not even a little

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. @128. Media reports note there’s a gun show in Vegas coming up October 7, Mr. Feet; bringing in cased product wouldn’t seem that out of place– and, of course, this fella’s weapons could very well have been brought in partially disassembled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. ugh that’s just another weirdo factoid that fits with the idea he was a gun control nut

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  132. Violin case used to carry Thompson.

    Hard gun case for zeroed scope looks like trombone or oboe.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  133. Colonel: it is good to hear that your daughter and boyfriend are ok. That must have been a terrible bit of time, before you found out. :{

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  134. Especially since Paddock was white.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  135. That tidbit at #134 expands the actor list. Was El Moco the guy drinking the Bud Light king can?

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  136. There’s no evidence, yet, that Paddock was the shooter other than his dead body in the room. Which the Las Vegas cops made sure was dead. Everything else known about him says he couldn’t be.

    — Was the venue having labor trouble?
    — Has “somebody” been looking to “acquire” it?
    — Have all the right envelopes containing the right amount of cash been going to the right people in Las Vegas and vicinity?
    These are questions I have.

    nk (dbc370)

  137. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/2/seth-moulton-boycotts-moment-of-silence-for-las-ve/
    an young joey kennedy is blaming republicans. I truly despise democrats and their ilk.

    mg (31009b)

  138. When you know people with relatives and intimates killed, the damage is for life.”

    Fyp – gun involvement does not make the damage more or less. Any life taken by another is horrific.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  139. tom petty found unconscious in full cardiac arrest

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  140. Good advice

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/10/02/in-praise-of-day-two/

    ” Day one is always feelings, and day one feels like the story you need. Day two is when we can start to get it right. Wait for day two. Wait for next week, wait for the story that needs you.”

    Ben burn (101c24)

  141. wait for the story that needs you

    gay gay gay gay gay

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  142. A top legal executive at CBS, Hayley Geftman-Gold, is in hot water after she reacted to horrifying events in Las Vegas by posting on Facebook that she was “not even sympathetic” to shooting victims because “country music fans often are Republican gun toters.”

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/21815/cbs-exec-no-sympathy-vegas-victims-because-country-emily-zanotti?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=092117-news&utm_campaign=dwtwitter

    Imagine the mental void needed to not just gauge the horror of murder by the method used but the politics of the victims.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  143. This is a GOP tax plan? Possibly 30% of middle class gets a tax hike? I hope the final details are better than this. -@randpaul

    ok i’m pretty much done with this wad

    this sleazy piece of kentuckytrash what refused to repeal the obamacare mandate doesn’t get to pretend to be some kind of hero to the middle class

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  144. The Low road is more travelled.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  145. Happy feet sure knows trash, intimately.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  146. Mr. Ace has a thread about the fired CBS lawyer

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  147. ugh in that thread there’s this

    UPDATE: We’re told after Petty got to the hospital he had no brain activity and a decision was made to pull life support.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  148. Ace seems to sympathize with her 1st Amendment rights. Such consistency!

    Ben burn (101c24)

  149. Tom Petty . . . TOM PETTY!!!

    — What an absolute craphole of a year this is turning out to be.

    Icy (177074)

  150. The Clark County district attorney, Steve Woodson described the gun used as “a classic WMD. This was a weapon and a man of mass destruction.”

    He added: “This doesn’t involve politics – all of us are Nevadans.”

    classic douchebag

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  151. Some more stray facts:

    The room on the 32nd floor that Paddock was in was numbered 135. (?)

    He filed a slip and fall lawsuit against a casino in 2012. It was settled, and dismissed with prejudice, in 2014.

    Two on duty policemen were shot, and one is in critical condition. An off duty policemman was shot and killed.

    One woman, who was working at a vendor booth when the shooting started and hid with co-workers inside a Budweiser truck, thought it went on for about 30 minutes.

    The country music festival was called Route 91 Harvest.

    Stephen Paddock had lived in Mesquite, Nevada, only since June 2016. Previously he lived in Reno, Nevada, from 2011 to 2016, but also had an address in Melbourne, Florida, from 2013 to 2015.

    Earlier he had lived in Henderson, Nevada, and several locations in Texas, including a place named Mesquite, and in California since 1990. He was born April 9, 1953. He was living with his parents in Tucson when his father robbed banks in the early 1960s. His father robbed 3 banks in Phoenix, and got about $20,000, but was arrested in Las Vegas. Patrick Paddock broke out of prison in Texas on Christmas Eve 1968, using another prisoner’s identity and he reportedlyrobbed a bank in San Franciso. that’s when he was put on the FBI’s Most Wanted list. Stephen Paddock was 15.

    Patrick Paddock remained in the loose for years but was rearrested in 1977. He died in 1998.

    ISIS prevously made a false claim in June 2017 when it claimed a follower had launched an attack at a casino in Manila. But officials later said it was a robbery carried out by an indebted gambler. The claim was made by source believed to be really ISIS – but who knows?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  152. Stephen Paddock had lived in Mesquite, Nevada, only since June 2016. Previously he lived in Reno, Nevada, from 2011 to 2016, but also had an address in Melbourne, Florida, from 2013 to 2015. Earlier he had lived in Henderson, Nevada, and several locations in Texas, including a place named Mesquite, and in California since 1990.

    CBS News, NY Times, Washington Post, MethNBC, NBC, ABC, Daily Beast, Daily Kos and New Yorker all reporting he has Conservative PTSD from being in rural ‘Murica. Trump and Republicans are to blame.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  153. “Ace seems to sympathize with her 1st Amendment rights. Such consistency!”

    Me too. No way would I wish to see her arrested for her speech.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  154. She was fired.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  155. A heartbreaker: R.I.P. Tom Petty.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  156. It’s a freaking awful day. Tom Petty has died.

    Dianna (b7aa4f)

  157. A small price to pay for our 2 amendment rights. gun grabbers move to australia or cuba.

    american gunner (1e2246)

  158. Why do you leftists think we have a second amendment right to murder? Do we have first amendment right to throw virgins into volcanos?

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  159. 156. Poor Biggie (987b85) — 10/2/2017 @ 1:01 pmblockquote>CBS News, NY Times, Washington Post, MethNBC, NBC, ABC, Daily Beast, Daily Kos and New Yorker all reporting he has Conservative PTSD from being in rural ‘Murica. Isn’t Henderson, Nevada where Harry Reid is from?

    One brother, Bruce Paddock, said his family grew up in Sun Valley, California, and he now lives in California. (Eric evidently lives in or near Orlando, Florida.

    Here’s more background:

    The concert festival was taking place outdoors.

    According to photos here the two ppunched out windows were 10 windes apart.

    http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/mandalay-bay-32nd-floor-windows-do-they-open-shattered-broken-shooting-photos/

    Stephen’s father Patrick was mentioned in articles in the New York Times and LIFE Magazine during the early 1970s. By the time he was re-arrested in 1977, He had relocated to Eugene, Oregon and was running a bingo game at the Bingo Center. He was living there under the name Bruce Werner Ericksen. The three bank robberies for which he was indicted and convicted took place between February 19, 1959 and January 29, 1960, and they probably could have missed some. Patrick was 34 years old in 1960, so bborn circa 1926.

    https://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-paddock-dad-patrick-benjamin-hoskins

    Stephen Paddock was never in the military, so he didn’t learn to shoot there.

    NBC went back to regularly scheduled programming at 2 pm eastern time..

    NBC reports he was a big gambler according to an NBC source who said he read his Multiple Currency Transaction Reports (CTR) and also a `casino gaming executive. Casinos have to file that when there is more than $10,000 in cash-in and cash-out transactions in a gaming day.” It not on;y exceeded $10.000 – the threshhold, but in some cases $20,000 and $30,000 a day. But NBC was not told how many of them, or if any of them were wins or losses.

    A neighbor reportedly says that Stephen Paddock was gone from his home for 6 months last year.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  160. NBC went back to regularly scheduled programming at 2 pm but Brian Williams probably is continuing coverage at MSNBC.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  161. More bits to be confirmed:

    The hotel was sold out for months for this concert – Paddock would have had to buy his room 1-2 months ago or more.

    Paddock was wagering more than $10k per day at the casino, not caring if he won or lost – casinos have to file paperwork on anyone wagering over $10k.

    And as many have pointed out, if his weapon was full-auto, it’s a 6-9 month process and a lot of being checked out and hassled to get. If you can get one at all.

    Ingot (e5bf64)

  162. Monstrous mass murders just don’t happen sui generis, there’s usually a lengthy background of escalating aberrant behavior leading up to bloody carnage, often following closely after a triggering event.

    This incident doesn’t begin to fit textbook expectations, and it’s additionally complicated by reports the presumed shooter was a multi-millionaire.

    ropelight (051652)

  163. I’m only modestly knowledgeable about guns. The interwebz today has taught me about something called a “bump stock.”

    If this video’s demonstration of a bump stock on an AR-15 with a large-capacity magazine is accurate & legitimate, and if indeed BATFE has approved bump stocks (during the Obama Era, no less! gasp!), then I’m in favor of reversing that decision. This rate of fire is almost indistinguishable, to the ear at least, from fully-automatic rates of fire. And if so, we should treat them like semi-to-full automatic conversion kits are already treated, i.e., defined by regulation to themselves be a “machinegun” within the meaning of the National Firearms Act of 1934. Only Second Amendment extremists who believe the 1934 Act unconstitutional ought have any reservations or objections to that, unless I’m missing something.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  164. It will be some time whether we have real details of what weapon was used.

    Past experience has shown that everyone, even experienced gun people, screw this up.

    Ingot (e5bf64)

  165. @ american gunner, who asked (#170):

    how long before patterico blames this on president trump?

    I’m betting never. Would you like to put a small wager down on this with an independent stakeholder and a relevant time period of, say, 90 days?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  166. Well, the 1934 Act was unconstitutional, as far as military and militia weapons are concerned (e.g. Miller), but it was also a good idea.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  167. how long before patterico blames this on president trump?

    american gunner (1e2246) — 10/2/2017 @ 1:48 pm

    What the hell is wrong with you?

    Dana (d959d2)

  168. And, just as happyfeet comes off my filter for being constructive, Mr gunner goes on. Conservation law, I guess.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  169. do we have to talk about banning stuff already

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  170. Imagine the mental void needed to not just gauge the horror of murder by the method used but the politics of the victims.
    harkin

    And then to put it out to the public!!

    BTW I called a friend to see if they went, as they are rabid CW fans. They did not go but one of their friends was shot in the arm and is okay. I think we are all going to experience those few degrees of separation.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  171. Casinos can always accommodate high rollers, they keep enough hotel top-end suits open for known big betters. Renting rooms to concert ticket holders is a low priority when the option to lodge guests (often at no charge) who might drop big money at the tables.

    A big gambler need only call a designated host and say he’d like to visit. That’s when the red carpet appears.

    Of this guy is betting $10 to $20K a day, he qualifies for special consideration.

    ropelight (051652)

  172. 175. do we have to talk about banning stuff already

    https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/rahmemanue409199.html

    harkin (70fe68)

  173. now they’re saying he was a country music fan himself

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  174. @173 re 170: Bingo.

    Gunner, you’re shootin’ blanks. Besides, our Captain hizself made it clear long ago he could pop pedestrians along Fifth Avenue and not lose any support, so he’s perfectly capable of blaming hizself.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  175. Los Angeles police apologize for “inadvertently” reporting the death of singer Tom Petty; no official update on the singer’s current condition

    — Ah yes, the ‘cherry’ on top. Apparently, he’s still clinging to life while everyone has already begun to mourn his passing.
    Thanks, media/gov’t information officers!

    Icy (177074)

  176. If he was playing at being a high roller, wonder if it was enough that they comped his room.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. @181. Icy- Any specfics on prognosis?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  178. 177. ropelight (051652) — 10/2/2017 @ 2:05 pm

    Of this guy is betting $10 to $20K a day, he qualifies for special consideration.

    I donm’t know if he was betting $10k to even $30K a day. He was cashing in and cashing out that kind of number of chips. He played $100 a hand (video) poker according to CNN. He is reported to have been an accountant by CNN. Neighbors said he was a professional gambler. There was a large safe the size of a fridge inside the couple’s garage. He was “reclusive” and he and the woman he lived with rarely went outside their home. He took cruises but ate burritos at Taco Bell. His family said he was a country music fan.

    He was divorced, without children as far as is known. The woman he was living with in Mesquite, Nevada was not his wife. Marilou Danley was only a girlfriend. She was a trip to the Phillipines when all this happened. Stephen, however, used some of her identification to do some things.

    Police discovered where the gunfire was coming from because the gunshots set off a smoke alarm.

    Eric Paddock, who said said he was born while his father was on the run, said that “he was never with my mom.” He said he died a few years ago (but that’s reported to be 1998)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  179. At least ten windows on a corner = how big or unusual a room?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  180. In our host’s absence, I have made the decision to delete “american gunner’s” ugly and offensive comment directed at our host. Patterico can certainly decide whether or not to ban him when time allows. It was a nasty insinuation, and absolutely unacceptable. I’ve never felt compelled to do this before, but given that Patterico is unable to respond at this time, and that it is his site where “american gunner” is a guest, I don’t see the purpose of leaving up such trash. It serves no purpose at this time.

    Dana (023079)

  181. 177- Ropelight
    Back in the 70’s and 80’s if you played at a table for a few hours- won and tipped well you were comped at the casinos best restaurants and shows. One time a bunch of us controlled a craps table for 2 hours. Everybody was winning and the D.I. comped golf, food and shows for 12 of us. Good Times. A friend who still goes to Vegas says you need a money-line of 50 thousand to be treated like a high roller now.

    mg (31009b)

  182. A friend who still goes to Vegas says you need a money-line of 50 thousand to be treated like a high roller now.

    Yep. And now they make you take out a casino card and give it to the pit boss every time you sit down, and your play is auto-tracked so that they know exactly how much your contribution was. I liked the old days better, when you could get a comp — heck, at least a free breakfast or something — just for treating everyone in the pit well and not leering too badly at the cocktail waitresses.

    JVW (42615e)

  183. Press conference

    Kevin M (752a26)

  184. Usually by now we see something that indicates hint of motive, and you’d think anyone this dedicated enough to invest the effort would leave an obvious message.

    Aunts Fah Fah (402510)

  185. Why does every press conference have the speaker surrounded by his posse. They dont even dpeak. I could see it on 9.11 but every one now?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  186. Face time of some sort. Because they’re worth it.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  187. Nothing new except somebody sure liked guns. 18 more firearms plus explosives found at alleged shooter’s home. Either he did it, or this is one hell of a frameup.

    But why? And how could no one have a clue?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  188. No specifics, DCSCA. 🙁

    Icy (177074)

  189. If he was playing at being a high roller,

    Pretty sure he was a high-roller. Had multiple houses, planes, etc.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  190. Bloggy blog rumors has him wearing a MAGA hat during his assault and an Internet video from local news where he is attending some hate Trumpey thing in Reno with his missing GF.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  191. He had purchased guns from a local guns store.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/02/deadliest-mass-shooter-in-us-history-identified/

    Kevin M (752a26)

  192. The inadvertent reveal: “… It’s a very sad day for me…[pause]… everybody.” – Donald Trump at WH presser w/Thailand’s PM Prayuth Chan-ocha.

    How will he get the media focus back on him? Play to the narrative–and the cameras. On to PR– then Vegas.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  193. i read where he liked burritos

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  194. By bloggy rumors he means Gateway Pundit and Infowars. Forgot to hit the filter link.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  195. Is Trump self-centered because he uses “me” and “I” a lot? He uses them less than Obama did.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  196. @200. Is Vegas? Thought it was a little creepy for some of those elected officials to be pitching the ‘we’re open for business’ spin in some of their monologues. Sounded a little too soon- and commercial– given the circumstances for the presser.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  197. #199 Actually it was Reddit but who knows. Time will tell.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  198. 200.Is Trump self-centered because he uses “me” and “I” a lot? He uses them less than Obama did.

    Give him time; he’s only been in office less than a year; O had 8.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  199. “SWAT officers were reportedly alerted to Paddock’s position after smoke from his weapon set off the smoke detector in his hotel room. He reportedly established a camera to monitor their approach…….”

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/02/deadliest-mass-shooter-in-us-history-identified/

    harkin (be4c6e)

  200. I’m sure glad we could keep this apolitical.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  201. @205. He has to inject himself into this, Ben– or anything which threatens to shift the spotlight away more than a day or two. That’s his performance pattern.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  202. If Trump mentions himself more than Obama did that’s saying something:

    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/obama-talks-207-times-campaigning-hillary

    Just Google ‘Obama speech mentions himself’ and read in wonder…..

    harkin (be4c6e)

  203. DC..needless jabs aplenty from the usual suspects making hay like their Dear Leader…

    White House says not the time to discuss gun control…except in Chicago.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  204. And you are absolutely right about his concern for his Limelite. He MUST re-aquire his mojo.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  205. I think he bristled when he heard ‘thoughtful speech!’

    He’s not sure it’s a compliment.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  206. From David French at NRO:

    Given the firepower and the packed mass of people, it’s easy to see how the casualty count was so high, even firing from an extreme range (by the standards of mass shootings.) This was the University of Texas tower attack on steroids, conducted out of nowhere, with meticulous planning and at great expense, from a person who doesn’t seem to fit any normal profile of a mass shooter.

    The Charles Whitman mass-shooting in Austin on August 1, 1966 is very, very clear in my memory, even though I was half-way across Texas in the fourth grade at the time: My older sister was a student at UT-Austin, working a summer job at Sheftall’s Jewelry Store on “The Drag,” Guadalupe Street, which runs along the western edge of the UT campus. A neighbor, knowing I was probably home by myself, heard about the attack on TV and came to get me; her oldest daughter was also a UT student on campus for summer school, and their younger daughter was one of my regular pals. We all watched their TV with amazement and dismay during the real-time broadcasts: Whitman’s shooting lasted for more than an hour and a half. Fortunately, both my sister and my neighbor’s daughter were unhurt — my sister sheltering in her workplace, the neighbor’s daughter behind a steel trash can on the West Mall. But they watched other victims bleed out, and others who were shot trying to effect rescues while trying to guess which side of the Tower that Whitman was on at any given moment.

    Charles Whitman had a large collection of weapons, including a semi-automatic shotgun and a pump-action iron-sited rifle. But for his sniping from the UT Tower he used a scoped bolt-action — not even a semi-automatic. Whitman was a superb marksman who fired individual, aimed shots from extremely good solid cover after having effectively blockaded himself from being flanked — although that’s eventually what happened, when he was finally rushed and killed by two Austin Police Department officers. Whitman could, and did, fire in all four directions, but he wasn’t firing into a densely packed crowd at any point. He targeted to wound and immobilize, then targeted the resulting first-responders. His was the classic sniper attack; last night’s attack was more in the nature of an elevated machine-gun nest from which it was almost impossible to miss altogether, even at long range. The rate of fire plus the target density accounts for the casualty differentials.

    Here’s the Observation Deck, photographed DURING Whitman’s attack. Note the waist-high parapet (complete with observation telescope on the right) and the rain spouts through which he could fire from behind solid cover. My recollection is that the parapet was marble-clad concrete, probably a foot thick. As a sniper’s nest, it was ideal, and its very limited vulnerability and access explain why Whitman’s attack continued for such a long time.

    Civilians using deer hunting rifles with scopes tried to return fire from the ground, and also, much more effectively, from The Castilian Dormitory, a 22-story high-rise that had just been completed, and from whose eastern exposure there was an excellent straight-on view of the west side of the Tower’s observation platform about 500 yards away. But while well-intentioned, this was almost totally ineffective unless Whitman chose to stand erect and motionless for a moment. Whitman, a Marine, certainly knew better than that.

    Here, from the sheltered floor of the Observation Deck and behind the parapet, is the view through one of the rain spouts, looking out over the South (Main) Mall toward the Texas Capitol. There were three such spouts at each cardinal compass point, each serving as a near-perfect gun slit. His fields of fire from behind that solid cover were magnificent.

    When my sister married a UT grad student two years later, he used his Main Building Library privileges to get us up on the then-closed Observation Deck. We could look out and see where the bullet pock-marks were on the parapet, and see behind us, and touch others at roughly head-height and higher, on the walls of the clock tower in the center.

    Later, in the mid-1970s, I likewise got privileges to use the Main Library inside the UT Tower, and during the two years I lived in The Castilian dorm myself, I often studied there to take advantage of its spectacular views and tomb-like quiet. The Tower is brilliantly lit at night in either white lights (default) or orange (after UT victories), so it dominated the view from my window in room 1711-N, from which students had indeed been taking shots at Whitman in 1968.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  207. And “barricaded,” not blockaded. There was but one entry point, up a set of very narrow stairs down which he could fire. The interior of the Tower is extremely cramped and was then filled with tall steel bookcases, with tiny carrels at the windows but otherwise like being inside a vertical submarine.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  208. Whitman had enough presence of mind to ‘protect’ his wife and mother from the embarrassment by killing them in their sleep. Plagued by ‘headaches ‘ and strange thoughts.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  209. As the link above indicates MKUltra use byCIA facilitated by our Institutions is a fact.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  210. i’m not convinced yet Mr. Pipsywizzle in vegas was crazy loony loco

    and i know i don’t necessarily trust the corrupt vegas police department or the fbi to tell us everything they know

    and i don’t trust the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts to report it accurately even if they did

    but I’m still a big fan of Mr. Jason Aldean

    i have his whole new cd i haven’t even listened to yet cause of I’m saving it for a road trip

    me and Mr. Aldean have had many adventures

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  211. Yes, because his behavior was so full of sanity. I think you might be crazy.

    Ben burn (101c24)

  212. we’ll see

    maybe

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  213. @216. Old news, too; the sciences and profiling methodologies have progressed. Autopsy revealed Whitman had a walnut-sized brain tumor, too, but there was a medical debate over whether it could have been a contributor to his behavior back in the day. That has been revisited. Regardless, the frequency of these kind of events has increased measurably since them days.

    _____

    News reports CalAir is offering free flights to Vegas for affected family members of victims.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  214. Ingot @169.

    It will be some time whether we have real details of what weapon was used.

    At this point we don’t have what guns were used but we have a report from the police, according to the New York Times and others, that there were 19 guns and rifles of various kinds in his room. Two of them were on tripods.

    His brotehr Eric said that when he helped move him from Melbourne, Florida, to Mesquite Nevada, which was either in 2015 or 2016 – he didn’t have any kind of automatic weapons – just several handguns, maybe one long gun, all in a safe. (if I have this right.)

    Some guns bought in California have been connected to him, but they say that none of them were used.

    A gun store in Utah sold him a gun in February, either 2016 or 2017, and they use code words with each other when they think something might be wrong there and try to prvent the sale, but nothing like that happened.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  215. 222
    CTE often leads to uncontrolled violence and pressure from a tumor, even a small one is suspect.

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.theroot.com/football-has-an-even-bigger-concussion-problem-nearly-1797232665/amp

    Ben burn (101c24)

  216. My hub and I are currently sitting with friends whose son-in-law was killed in front of his wife at the concert. Their other kids were at the chospital ncert too. Being in law enforcement and an ICU nurse, the kids are now working to help locals. Our friends devastated beyond belief, as well as in shock. What isn’t helping them is the gun-control comments by politicians, and the idiot reporters questioning Sanders at the WH presser. It angers and hurts them because that is not what matters now, and it isn’t helpful at all but extremely hurtful. Their loved one was far more to them than a political volleyball. You can’t imagine how brutal a gun control discussion is right now. Other than Cooking for them and helping with the grandbabies here, there is nothing more we can to do but hold their hands and sit them in support.

    Oh, jeez. With the numbers I saw this morning, I felt a sick feeling that people I know would end up being affected one way or another. There were just so many victims. Stay strong.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  217. Dana, I missed your comment at #120 until Patterico reposted it just now. Ditto what he said, and please convey condolences from your many internet friends here.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  218. I just put up a post about it.

    Dana (023079)

  219. AP says:

    Two officials familiar with the investigation say authorities found at least 17 guns in the hotel room of the Las Vegas shooter.

    Stephen Paddock also had two devices that are attached to the stocks of semiautomatic guns to allow fully automatic gunfire. The bump-stock devices have attracted scrutiny in recent years from authorities.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  220. Hiram Maxim patented a “bump-firing” buttstock for the Winchester lever action rifle in 1884. L-e-v-e-r a-c-t-i-o-n! Some genies won’t stay in their bottles.

    nk (dbc370)

  221. Joss Whedon, Julianne Moore, Lady Gaga Implore U.S. to Enact Stronger Gun Control

    game change!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  222. There’s a Hearing Protection Act pending in Congress. I think it should be amended to include music concerts, requiring them to keep the sound level below 70 decibels.

    nk (dbc370)

  223. Very interesting, nk. It’s just another mechanism for using the recoil energy to do the work of the trigger repeatedly, essentially indistinguishable in purpose and effect (but slightly distinguishable in mechanism) from semi-to-full automatic conversion kits, I gather. (I’m no expert on guns.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  224. It operated the lever, ejecting the empty and chambering a new round. It’s considered the first semi-automatic (or self-loading) mechanism. The current bump-firing stocks on semi-automatics follow the same principle, but actuating the trigger as you said, having come already “self-loading”.

    Thing is, expert shooters (I’m not one of them) can bump fire their semi-automatics for very rapid fire without any add-ons. Just by the way they hold them.

    nk (dbc370)

  225. I keep hearing about how shootings are an American thing and how we don’t have enough gun control. But I wonder: why does no one mention that we have incredibly good bomb control? It’s something the rest of the world might emulate. We also have pretty good “running buses into crowds” control, Islamic nutbars with machetes control, etc. I wonder if any of this is connected.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  226. Re: Second day stories:

    One New York radio news outlet today reported that 42 guns had bene found in the gunman’s hotel room, and 19 in his home, but that is a mistake = the total is 42. There were 23 in the hotel room and 19 others.

    Very important: The gunman was actually detected at 10:24 am (but they didn’t burst into his hotel room until 11:20 as previously noted.) A security guard on the 32nd floor was shot, but there are no more details in the news.

    Putting two and two together it probably went down like this:

    The smoke alarm in his room (he actually rented two hotel rooms, so maybe in one of the suites) went off and the security giard went there to check it out. Paddock, thinking that where the firing was coming from had been detected, or that he would not be able to tell aplausible lie and keep the hotel employee out of the room, shot him. He then expected the police to be there in three or four minutes, maximum 5 or 10, possible one or two. Not wanting to be arrested, he shot sn killed himself at that point.

    The police, however, had other ideas. They began planning very methodically. A question here is if they had determined that the shooting had stopped. Otherwiae they were prepared to let this go on another hour, because it took them almost that long to get ready. I can say that we don’t know if they had determined even that that was where the shooting was coming from. It could have been an inactive accomplice, with supplies or plans for an escape, who was in that room.

    In any case, they took care of their number one priority: protecting themselves. Just like the police at Columbine.

    They got explosives and rigged the door so as to explode. They didn’t knock because that would be a signal for him to fire – very reasonable especially since whoever was in that room had already fired at the first investigator.

    They burst open the door at 11:20 and immediately shot him, even though he made no attempt to move or to resist (which he couldn’t do, being already dead) They maybe gave him less chance to surrender than Osama bin Laden got from Seal Team 6 did in Abbotabad, Pakistan.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  227. More second day news:

    Some ammonium nitrate (or ammonium nitrate residue?) was found in the killer’s car (so he did have one) which was parked near the hotel, and maybe also at his home in Mesquite, Nevada.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  228. Antifa, ISIS,Commies oh my!

    https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/alex-jones-las-vegas

    Ben burn (8af9bc)

  229. Yesterday they were saying this was the deadliest mass shooting in American history and that previous record holder, the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando had held the record for only 68 weeks) but today they are saying this is the worst mass killing since September 11th.

    This story actually made the printed edition of the New York Daily News on Monday! It is the top half of the last column (of 5) on page 10. They quote somebody on Facebook and police and note that Las Vegas Blvd had been blocked and thatt officer were searchng the hotel for the shooter. The Las Vegas police chief tweeted that they were investigating reports of an active shooter near/around Mandalay Bay casino and they are asking everyone to avoid the area. The person on Facebook said that multipple magazines of an AR style rifle were unloaded on the crowd, but I guess they hadn’t verified that yet.

    I guess at that point nobody had any idea of the casualties, or indeed if there even were any. So, small article on page 10.

    The biggest story on page 10 is the ‘Jihad carnage’ in France, where aman with a knife attacked two women, separately, at a train station. The third story on the page, at the bottom of column 5, is that the two women who were instrumental in the killing of North Korea dictator Kim Jong Un’s half brother at an airport in Malaysia were going on trial – or at least they now pled not guilty. (Some North Koreans left the counry before, and others were allowed to leave the country when North Korea refused to let Malaysian dipomats leave – as part of the deal, Kim Jong Nam;s body was also sent to North Korea. The two women may get the death penalty.)

    The New York Post for Monday has a story about the attack in France on page 15, paired with an lone wolf attack in Canada.

    You know, it occurs to me, that while this going on, one possibility that occured to police was that this was the work of a black, anti-police racist. They thought they would be the biggest target.

    The killer’s brother, Eric, gave a lot of interviews and seemed very lighthearted. Some other people in the family are probably talking, but only on background. Some, like his second divorced wife, aren’t talking at all. Eric seems to have his father’s name wrong – he gave it as “Benjamin Hoskins Paddock,” which was what was on his FBI “Ten Most Wnated” poster, but is apparently wrong – unless the name “Patrick” is wrong maybe.

    Someone in the family said their mother told them when they were young that he was dead. I think that could have happened even when he was in prison (1960-1968) and this kind of astory is more likely to be told while he was in prison. Its also more likely in the 1960s because I think this was going around then.

    Eric gave a number of metaphors to say how totally out of the blue this came. One of them comparing it to an asteroid striking the earth. This is actually wrong. There’s nothing more predictable. It’s much more predictable than an earthquake, a hurricane a tornado or a wildfire. Without modern astronomy it might be a surprise in the sense that one minute everything is normal and the next there’s this huge disaster. Also, there’s no buildup on earth, unlike with a hurricane, let’s say, but it happens all at once.

    Stephen maintained regular, if limited, contact with his family. There was no sign that something was up – not just that he might commit a crime, but that he wouldn’t be around much longer. You know, might kill himself. Or wouldn’t send a gift the next time it would be expected. Or any slowed down contact.

    Stephen checked with Eric that he got back his electricity after Hurricane Irma. He used to send cookies – a large amount of cookies – to their mother, who is still alive. She must be at least in her late 80s.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  230. 236. Errata. It should have been 10:24 pm, not am! It’s clear anyway from what I wrote further.

    The smoke alarm went off and/or the security guard was shot at 10:24 pm. The police SWAT team didn’t break down the door of the hotel room till 11:20 pm. Stephen PAddock must have thought the police were coming right away, and committed suicide.

    A reminder: Just the fear of polic action can cause a massacre to end.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  231. News reports from 1969 regarding Paddock’s father, who escaped from a federal prison near El Paso on the last day of 1968:

    A convict who escaped from La Tuna Federal Correctional Institute last New Year’s Eve has been placed on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.

    Patrick Benjamin Paddock was serving a 20-year sentence for robbing a Phoenix bank in 1960. He was also under indictment on charges of robbing two other banks. When arrested in La Vegas he attempted to run down an FBI agent and had to be stopped with gunfire. He has been known to be armed.

    Known as “Chrome-dome,” “Old Baldy” and “Big Daddy,” Paddock is 6 feet 4 inches tall, weighs 245 pounds, is balding and often shaves his head completely. Anyone with information about him should contact the FBI or the nearest law enforcement agency.

    November 19, 1969, Corpus Christi Caller-Times

    [El Paso Times] Action Line:

    Question: On Sunday, Nov. 2, “The FBI Story” on Channel lIII mentioned a man on the “Ten Most Wanted” List. They said the man had escaped from a federal prison in Texas. Where is this prison? Mrs. O.W.S.

    Answer: The man in Benjamin Hoskins Paddock and the prison is the Federal Correctional Institution at La Tuna, Texas, near El Paso.

    He escaped Dec. 31, 1968 while serving a 20-year sentence for bank robbery at Phoenix, Ariz. He is six feet four inches tall, weighs 245 pounds and is known as “Big Daddy,” “Chromedome,” and “Old Baldy.”

    He is a glib, smooth-talking, egotistical arrogant confidence man. He likes steaks, deserts, Camel cigarettes, Dutch Masters cigars, television, sports, gambling, bridge, hot rod and stock car racing and ham radio operation. He has worked as an auto mechanic, electrician, promoter, salesman, and service station attendant, nightclub and driving school operator.

    The last time he was arrested, he tried to run down an FBI agent with his car. He carries a snub-nosed revolver in his underwear, the FBI bulletin says.

    There seems to be a relationship between crime and addiction, including the similarity between criminal and addictive thinking patterns.

    In addition, there is a genetic component to addictions: “For example, peer influences and family environment are most important for exposure and initial pattern of use, whereas genetic factors and psychopathology play a more salient role in the transition to problematic use.”

    DRJ (d35869)

  232. A deck full of jokers

    http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=371817

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. The post-Columbine rule in many police forces is: First armed responder waits for second armed responder, then the two go in. This is the LAPD policy.

    Perhaps he had ceased firing by the time they located him, so they opted for safety rather than urgency.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  234. End liberal privilege. Fact check them, too.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  235. One report said Paddock shot through the door and wounded a hotel security guard. The police entered after that. According to a Texan and Iraq war vet who staying at the hotel and who alerted the police to the shooters location, it took less than 10 minutes from his call to the police entering the hotel room.

    DRJ (15874d)

  236. @244 narciso

    Awan’s wife headed back to Pakistan. This guys chippie takes a trip to the Philippines. Money transfers.

    Now boarding wives and girlfriends of spies and mass murderers.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  237. @241 DRJ

    Since Big Daddy died of prostate cancer it could be a case of John Dillinger by proxy.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  238. @241 Sammy

    Ma Paddock goes to her reward with another Wikipedia entry of note.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  239. @239 Sammy, actually

    @237 Sammy

    There is a popular form of landscaping in the High Desert West called xeriscaping. It would be interesting to see what his various yards look like. It doesn’t sound like he was into tripping on mushrooms or MJ.

    I do know that if you fertilize your yard before you go to the airport you’re going to have a bad time. False Positives.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  240. they were trying to get xeriscaping kicked off in LA just as i was leaving

    this involved a program where the city would help pay the landscaping bill for a bunch of one percenters

    some of the early experiments were very interesting to see, and for sure some of them were aesthetic trainwrecks

    but there weren’t a lot of accepted conventions at that time so people had more of a clean slate creatively

    i imagine it’s gotten more and more cookie-cutter as people have decided what works

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. Not only in the Desert SW. There was a push here in Florida a few years back for xeriscaping. (This may be seem ridiculous in a place that averages 66 inches a year of rain–thanks to Irma we had ten inches just last month, and this week is adding to the total–but in drier years, Lake Okeechobee and the aquifer can be seriously depleted.) Less stress on the water level, lower water bills for watering the lawn, etc.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  242. @236 Sammy

    I’m almost as cynical about LV and NV cops as nk, but I ain’t mad. I’m no lawyer, obviously, but a certain court ruling was distilled down to: Cops have no duty to protect you. From a liability standpoint anyway.

    I think it was Joe Wambaugh who first brought to the public the concept that cops play “catch up” every day and twice on Sunday.

    Henderson, NV Third Amendment challenge

    Erik Scott-all security footage “lost”.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  243. With rental houses I think it’s called zeroscaping. That BTK guy was not a fan.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  244. You load 42 guns and what do ya get?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  245. Less stress on the water level

    my understanding is that this is important in florida cause of lower water tables facilitate salt water intrusion into groundwater

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  246. my understanding is that this is important in florida cause of lower water tables facilitate salt water intrusion into groundwater

    So they claim.

    Note to Patterico: happyfeet is making some intelligent comments. Perhaps that script has more power than we thought.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  247. oops #260 should say low water tables *make trannies go poop poop poop*

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  248. And sometimes he reverts to form….

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  249. MSNBC’s Mika: No Republican lawmakers would appear on ‘Morning Joe’ to discuss the Las Vegas massacre

    they CAN be taught

    who knew

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  250. @235 Kevin M

    “This country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem. And a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem.”- Joe Rogan

    300 yard bow shot

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  251. this is not the happyfeet you were looking for…

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  252. @233 nk

    I don’t want to get into it with noted gun expert BB about how easy it is to convert guns. He might think a five year bid in federal “pound me in the a$$ prison” is easy. I don’t.

    The particular thing about machine guns is

    A. They fire continuously with a trigger pull.

    B. They stop firing when the trigger is let off.

    With a so called easy conversion that ain’t necessarily so.

    I think Rev Hoagie may need to chime in, but an exception might be the M-60. Either the sear wears down or it get so hot the newly loaded shells cook off and it won’t stop firing.

    There’s some pistol I heard about where just regular use will wear the sear down to the point the operator will get a full magazine dump. And I think a guy with no criminal intent in his heart had it occur on a gun range and he got that five year ticket punched.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  253. @208 DC..needless jabs aplenty from the usual suspects making hay like their Dear Leader…

    White House says not the time to discuss gun control…except in Chicago.
    Ben burn (101c24) — 10/2/2017 @ 4:06 pm

    Are you for individualism or collective punishment?

    Gun Culture is a culture of peace. Chicago gang bangers are not true followers of Gun Safety.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  254. 254. Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 10/3/2017 @ 11:39 am

    There is a popular form of landscaping in the High Desert West called xeriscaping. It would be interesting to see what his various yards look like. It doesn’t sound like he was into tripping on mushrooms or MJ.

    Xeriscaping simply means minimzing the use of water.

    I do know that if you fertilize your yard before you go to the airport you’re going to have a bad time. False Positives.

    At his home it wasn’t ammonium nitrate but Tannerite.

    Maybe.

    It’s used for fireamrs practice they say.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  255. Tannerite is used recreationally by people who like to see things blow up. They often don’t have the best safety practices, for example:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u4-FtZfyfk

    There’s also a video out there of some guy shooting a lawn mower filled with tannerite and losing a leg, I will not link that one here.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  256. 246. Kevin M (752a26) — 10/3/2017 @ 10:18 am

    The post-Columbine rule in many police forces is: First armed responder waits for second armed responder, then the two go in. This is the LAPD policy.

    In Las Vegas they seemed to have waited longer. They waited for a SWAT team which then burst down the door (He had fired through it at the security guard)

    Perhaps he had ceased firing by the time they located him, so they opted for safety rather than urgency.

    He in fact must have stopped firing at about the time they located him. And that was probably because, expecting them to storm in, he killed himself.

    The whole thing lasted no more than about 15 minutes, and 10:24 PDT is 16 minutes after the first 911 call.

    I don’t know if they actually thought they had located the one and only shooter. In the dark it must have very hard to see the holes in the windows on the 32nd floor. They maybe only knew for certain that someone armed was in there.

    The police may also have thought that they would be the prime targets, if this was an anti-American or anti-government shooter. so you could even justify not wprrying about further shooting into the crowd but wprrying about being shot themselves. Besides it is more critical.

    If he was dead, it is pretty clear that he wasn’t speaking to them, and they had not reached a standoff. So that wasn’t the reason they let him alone for almost an hour.

    And initially they thought or told people, or someone did, that there were 23 shooters. It didn’t dawn on people at first that the bullets were not being fired from ground level. (this measn for instance it didn’t help to drop to the ground, but actually madce a person a bigger target)

    The bullets must have been seeming to come from different places. And in fact there were two places the shooting was coming from. They were nine windows apart – that maybe what equals 60 to 100 feet apart or more.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  257. The woman the killer was living with was just two years younger than he was: 62 versus his 64.

    He wasn’t in such great contact with his family. Maybe Eric had some semi-regular intermittent contact and maybe his mother but one brother, Patrick II, said he hadn’t been in cintact for 20 years.And the last brother couldn’t even be located by the New Yort Times. PAtrick II did speak to the press evidently.

    It was Eric who said they were told by their mother that their father was dead, and he also said that happened when he was in prison.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  258. “Tannerite is used recreationally by people who like to see things blow up.”

    It’s the stuff that nitwit leftwingers like Bill Ayers used in training for true mayhem and terror later.

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  259. It can only be detonated by a high velocity rifle bullet.

    There is a form that can be detonated by a shot from .32 Walther PPK, but it’s a sooper seekrit formula exclusive to the bad guys in James Bond movies who for some reason build all their facilities, vehicles and equipment with it.

    nk (dbc370)

  260. xeriscaping:

    The City of Los Angeles had a xeriscaping incentive during the last years of the Drought. They paid people for converting grass to gravel and such, by the square foot. Maybe $1/sf converted.

    During this time, I was looking at houses and I saw one for sale where they had filled in a pool and then planted cactus. Whole backyard is poolcrete, with this oval area in the middle of cactus and dirt.

    Probably took $50K off the value of the house. Truly terrible, and the owners probably think it’s unfair they get punished for “doing the right thing.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  261. Bond has special explosive bullets.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  262. @276 Col Haiku

    But this NV a hole’s girlfriend experience turned out a little different.

    PS Tannerite sounds like an LDS offshoot.

    PPS Glad your kidlet made it through ok. Late to the party.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  263. @276 nk

    Um, blasting caps?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  264. An i terstung detail, most of these bond villain fortresses at least the ones in the 60s, was based on the mittelwork, the facility at peenemunde for the v 2s

    narciso (d1f714)

  265. Um, blasting caps?

    If you can get blasting caps, what do you want with Tannerite? Your license will also cover real explosives, like dynamite.

    nk (dbc370)

  266. ugh this is hard to express with these comment filter on it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  267. The word “poopy” has been moderated, as has “poop-lick.”

    Enjoy!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  268. that obscene and disgusting word will never again foul my commentings that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  269. nobody knows why he did it and if they do they’re not saying

    except for ISIS

    they say he’s a big muslim

    but they didn’t find any pr0n in the room

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  270. (i took out the p-word)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  271. “Black Sunday”? Bruce Dern was a pilot, too. But Marthe Keller was a lot hotter than Marilu Denley.

    nk (dbc370)

  272. This is the week, Teddy Roosevelt, William McKinley and Alfred Thayer Mahan are saying “Why did we bother?”

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  273. dirgibble are the future

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  274. How many movies has Hollywood made about terrorists or other wackos attacking large packed venues (football games seem to predominate)? Dozens? Dozens of dozens? Maybe we need better movie control.

    nk (dbc370)

  275. Well there was the last boy scout, the afire mentioned black Sunday, before Harris acquired a taste for fava beans, their was sleeper cell first season, yes you see the problem

    narciso (d1f714)

  276. 257. Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 10/3/2017 @ 12:07 pm

    I’m almost as cynical about LV and NV cops as nk, but I ain’t mad. I’m no lawyer, obviously, but a certain court ruling was distilled down to: Cops have no duty to protect you. From a liability standpoint anyway.

    I wasn’t thinking of a liability standpoint, but of a utility standpoint. Doing nothing undermines the idea of them being available. It’s like firemen who won’t put out fires or EMS who won’t save lives.

    Some more details came out, and I’m having some difficultly putting he pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together. But I think changing one fact (a time) could make it all fit.

    1.They say (per CBS) the shooting lasted 9 minutes. That is close to an earlier estimate and actually I was more inclined earlier to accept that than 15 minutes.

    2. They realized that the shooting was coming from inside the building at 10:13 pm (this would be 5 minutes after the first 911 call) and began searching inside the building. Now this would only be some of the police.

    3. Paddock had rigged cameras outside his hotel room, presumably so he could tell when police (or anybody else) was approaching. Hotel employees had been in and out his room during the three days before the massacre.

    4. They say he was located at 10:24. Earlier they said it was beause a smoke detector went off. It’s also been said, and is probably true, that he shot a security guard through the door. (he hit him in the leg, so he will recover) This part is not clear. What exactly happened? Did the security guard already know he was doing the firing, and approach him alone? It sounds better if he didn’t know what was causing the soke detector to go off. Was he even sh

    Now, according to the chronology that says it lasted just 9 minutes, no shots were fired ever again, not just from 10:24, but from around 10:17. Now that wasn’t because he’d run out of ammunition.

    Maybe the best explanation is that the 10:24 time is wrong, or that is only when the police determined and recorded where the firing was coming from. Bbut Paddock shot the security guard at 10:17, and then killed himself almost immediately.

    (It could be also maybe he was cornered, away from most of his weaponry – and/or in the wrong hotel room. That sounds like it could be a variation on the movie “Die Hard”, except here it’s the terrorist who’e alone and outnumbered, and he stays in one place. I think the best explanation is that that 10:24 time is misleading, and he was really discovered, or revealed himself by shooting the security guard, at 10:17.)

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  277. Stephen Paddock is reported to have had jobs with the United States Postal Service and the IRS, and and to have worked for a predecessor company of Lockheed Martin from 1985 to 1988. Lockheed Martin confirmed the employment to the New York Times but wouldn’t say which one. He also invested in real estate, and managed it.

    His brother Eric said he made him wealthy. They were partners in various real estate deals – that’s probably why he remained in such big contact with him.

    As for how he could make money from gambling, there are two ways casinos make money. One is from gambling against the house, and the other is from collecting a share of the pot when people gamble against each other. Stephen Paddock, for one thing, had just won a $20,000 jackpot (from poker apparently) at the Eureka casino resort in Mesquite, Nevada.

    His character doesn’t look all so great, but so far nothing that would indicate an interest in this kind of crime – and age 64 is a little bit old to try something very new, because the question is, if he’s intersted in this, why didn’t he do it till now? Well, maybe because it meant he would die, but why should he think his life is over yet?

    The (Las Vegas?) police chief ssys they’ll have or release more information about him in 488 hours or so. Meaning closer toward the end of this week.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  278. @Kevin M:They paid people for converting grass to gravel and such, by the square foot. Maybe $1/sf converted.

    Shakin my damn head. The government is paying people to let grass die, replace with gravel, and reduce the value of their home. Almost literally “broken windows”.

    Frederick (63491b)

  279. Paddock had rigged cameras outside his hotel room

    One in a food service cart in the hall, one ina peephole and another in the room.

    Some more stray facts:

    The third place in Nevada that was searched was in Reno. Police found an additional 5 handguns, 2 shotguns and a lot of ammunition there.

    Paddock’s live-in girlfriend left the Phillpines on Tuesday (Phillpines time probably) and has now arrived in Los Angeles.

    3 of the 59 people killed remain unidentified. Fifty people remain in critical ondition.

    Police evacuated the 29th through 32nd floors when they discovered where the shooting was coming from.The first police to arrive there went there without a supervisor. One high ranking police officer said that Paddock may have stopped when he was discovered (like I speculated.)

    There were a few pounds of ammonium nitrate in his car, which is still being held by the hotel valet parking.

    Twelve off duty firemen were shot, including two who had started to try to treat the wounded.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  280. 296.Stephen Paddock is reported to have had jobs with the United States Postal Service…

    Sammy, it’s pretty clear he went postal.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  281. Stephen Paddock is reported to have had jobs with the United States Postal Service…

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/4/2017 @ 12:20 am

    Sammy, it’s pretty clear he went postal.

    He was a mailman from 1976 to 1978. Then he became an IRS agent. I know that, in the 1980s, they used to give a personality test, and they could have been doing it then. He probably faked it. If you were educated you could know what they were looking for. He got a job auditing defense contractors – then he went to work for one of them from 1985 to 1988 – either Lockheed or Martin.

    The only untoward thing was that a few months ago, late at night in the casino in Mesquite, he said to anotehr player that he wanted to or wished he would kill his mother, because why she did bring him into the world.

    It was attributed to drinking. He was suffering from existantial angst and probably feeling that his health and fitness was declining, which was maybe because of his drinking. It does affect the liver. I don’t think it would be some bad diagnosis. He drank a lot of alcohol, and his girlfriend used to buy some two botttle in the morning, but he hated smoking and had a cigar which he used to deliberately blow smoke in smokers’ faces.

    His mother, maybe a decade ago, told a neighbor, in Texas I think, where she was living then, that he was bad. But one of the other brothers, the one who hadn’t been in contact for 20 years thought that if anyone, he was the violent one. So say he wasn’t violent but he was evil. Except that, as far as we know, he never killed anyone before. Cheated them, maybe, and certainly fooled them when gambling, and “stole” another man’s wife, but killed someone we don’t know.

    His current girlfriend was an Australian citizen, but born in the Phillipines. She was married to someone in Nevada and working for a casino in Reno when it might be that he broke up her marriage. He got together with her in 2013, the same year her marriage ended.

    She had been away for 3 weeks at the time of the massacre. Maybe originally it was supposed to ebe two weeks, because he wanted to do it at the other music festival a week before, where he wanted to rent a condominium, but he couldn’t. It’s not at the exact same site, so Leviticus was wrong about that. This one that was in front of a hotel but the otehr one maybe wasn’t.

    His girlfriend didn’t even know she was going to the Phillipines till about just when when she went. He told her, according to her sister, that he had found a cheap ticket. Assuing she told er sister the truth. And then you know he wired her some $100,000. He could have been telling her to buy real estate or something.

    Stephen Paddock had been married and divorced twice, the last time in 1989.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)

  282. 300. I wrote:

    … he wanted to do it at the other music festival a week before, where he wanted to rent a condominium, but he couldn’t. It’s not at the exact same site, so Leviticus was wrong about that. This one that was in front of a hotel but the otehr one maybe wasn’t.

    Correction: It was aphrael who said that the Life is Beautiful concert was at the me venue a week before.

    Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90)


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