Patterico's Pontifications

11/23/2021

Occupy Democrats: Car “Plows” Into Group of Rittenhouse Protestors!!!1!!1!

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:24 am



Occupy Democrats has this horrifying news:

The gruesome video is below. Hide your kids, hide your wives, and think twice before you watch it yourself. It is not for the faint of heart, and I don’t want to be responsible for your nightmares.

LOL j/k. You can go ahead and watch it.

OH THE HUMANITY!

As for the woman “fighting for her life”:

I love the part where the lying Democrats say this Major Atrocity was committed by, quote, a “Trumper ’emboldened by the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict.’” Who exactly was quoted as saying the person was “emboldened by the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict” — as opposed to just annoyed, or late, or actually needing to get to their destination for important reasons? And how do we know it was a “Trumper”? I mean I realize they had time to read any bumper stickers, if there were any, on this very slow-moving car . . . so is that their evidence?

Or did they just make it up, like they made up the “plowing” and the “fighting for her life” stuff?

221 Responses to “Occupy Democrats: Car “Plows” Into Group of Rittenhouse Protestors!!!1!!1!”

  1. I appreciate the irony of Andy Ngo complaining about disinformation.

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  2. “disinformation”

    LOL

    JF (e1156d)

  3. I hate “activists” who block traffic.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  4. I watched the video despite your warning, Patterico. You were right. It is sickening.

    nk (1d9030)

  5. What a bunch of pathetic clowns. Fortunately Andy is on the scene. He and the Occupy democrats deserve each other.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  6. They post this after the actual attack that happened in Waukesha? Sickening.

    Thulu, take your own advice.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  7. I appreciate the irony of Andy Ngo complaining about disinformation.

    I appreciate the irony of a leftist covering for liars on the left.

    Oh, wait, that’s not actually irony, is it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. @5 right, last time he was “on the scene” with the knuckleheads you’re equating him to he got bashed in the head and ended up in hospital

    what you think is equivalent is noted

    JF (e1156d)

  9. I’m so triggered I’m going to take a couple days off this week.

    This one never gets old:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63xgfd7dr94

    steveg (e81d76)

  10. I hate “activists” who block traffic.

    The only violence here involved keys and car paint.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. Andy Ngo gets results:

    Occupy Democrats
    @OccupyDemocrats
    ·
    9m
    CORRECTION: Last night, we tweeted out initial reports regarding a possible car attack in Connecticut that turned out to be false. The motive/political alignment of the driver remain unknown. None of the victims were hospitalized. We sincerely apologize for the mistake.

    https://twitter.com/OccupyDemocrats/status/1463188603157291014

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  12. @8. Oooh noted….will that go in my permanent file?

    Let me be clear. Any Ngo is generally unreliable. When his reporting is accurate its a coincidence where the facts support his priors. Because the far left is chock full of a-holes it will happen from time to time. He’s extremely similar to occupy democrats in that way.

    based on your comment history I’m not at all surprised if you’re a fan of his.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  13. BuDuh, good form them in correcting their initial misleading reporting. Does nothing to raise my initial opinion of everything they say being unreliable, but correcting obvious false hoods should get some small praise.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  14. @12

    Amazing how everyone that says anything you don’t like is a member of the enemy and can thus be discounted.
    Time123 (0ef19f) — 11/22/2021 @ 12:53 pm

    JF (e1156d)

  15. Any Ngo is generally unreliable.

    Please name his top 20 “unreliable” stories. Should be easy considering your choice of “generally.”

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  16. correcting obvious false hoods should get some small praise.

    Publishing obvious falsehoods is the problem. A trophy for getting caught?

    We disagree.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  17. JF, your reading comprehension opportunities are showing again. I should have remembered that when i replied to you.

    I’ll explain. In this comment thread I’m saying that Andy is correct on this story, despite not being very accurate generally.
    I have a low opinion of him but in this comment thread I’m not disputing the accuracy of his statements on this event.

    Does that clear it up for you or do you need me to simplify it further?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  18. despite not being very accurate generally.

    This is the part that makes JF’s quote clear as a bell, IMO.

    If you cannot make the case that Ngo is “generally” not accurate, then you have successfully used your own “member of the enemy” argument against yourself.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  19. Is this something new?

    David Brooks was an anti-cop, anti-Trump would be rapper * with a long criminal record, who jumped bail in Nevada, in 2016 on charges of failing to register as a sex offender, because he’d been convicted of statutory rape in 2006 (when he was 24) for having sexual intercourse with a 15-year old who later gave birth to his child, and, on July 24, 2020 in Milwaukee, had been arrested and charged with firing a gun at a relative and friend (his nephew) in a dispute, and been given $10,000 later $7.500 bail which he couldn;t meet and he stayed in jail until February 2021 when his bail was reduced to $500 because he didn’t get a speedy trial, (he’d asked for an earlier date, which his lawyer probably knew the DA couldn’t meet) and he got out. I think the Nevada bail jumping charges are also still pending..it’s maybe that charge that was the reason there was even $500 bail.

    Most recently, on Tuesday, November 2, 2021, he punched the mother of his child (apparently not the same, now 30-year old, woman he got pregnant in 2006) and ran her over with his car, a 2010 red Ford escape, evidently the same car he ran over the people in the crowd with on Sunday. This time his bail was set at $1,000, which he met.

    Now I suppose nobody could reasonably foresee this crime. Although he’d most recently had run over the mother of his child, you wouldn’t expect anyone else to be a target of that.

    On Sunday, November 21, 2021 he’d been involved in another domestic disturbance to which the police had been called, but by the time they’d arrived, he’d left the scene. He was not being chased, as some assumed at first.

    He didn’t attack pro or anti-Rittenhouse protesters, but a Christmas parade (on November 21?) although maybe he made a mistake about what this parade was all about. It is not considered a terrorist attack, because he had no declared “cause” or flag and it’s probably too late, and not in his self-interest for him to say, like Emily Litella, “Never mind.” Anyway, he seems to have done it on the spur of the moment, or maybe ss his last act before spending a long time in jail, thinking he might as well commit a very serious crime first.
    ——————–

    / would be rapper: One of his songs (available on YouTube) was called “Gon Kill U” Another had some incoherent lyrics that said something about “Gacey where the bodies hid” (spelled that way)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  20. “Please name his top 20 “unreliable” stories.”

    Here’s his most recent one, in regards to the Waukesha killer:

    https://twitter.com/BobSaietta/status/1462834623252209668

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  21. Buduh, I’m not going to spend a lot of time on why I don’t trust Andy, but here’s an article with several links you can follow for more detail. I would encourage you to check out their sources since The Rolling Stones has it’s own issues with reliability.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/andy-ngo-right-wing-troll-antifa-877914/

    here’s another example that I remember from when it happened.

    https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/08/03/analysis/far-right-targets-immigration-activists-after-deadly-el-paso-shooting

    I will say this, despite the fact I don’t trust his reporting he has a right to report from the scenes of protests and I hope everyone that’s attacked him is identified and charged. I know some have but I don’t think it’s everyone.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  22. Excellent research, Dave!

    Ngo posts the picture of the source and your guy uses NGO’s picture of the source to say that Ngo doesn’t say what is in the picture.

    OH MY GAWD!!!

    Good thing Brooks has you in his corner.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  23. @16, Trophy? No. Maybe a brief golf clap. Did you miss the part of that comment where I said in my opinion everything they say is unreliable? I think you’re overestimating my regard for them.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  24. If you aren’t putting in any more effort than linking a source that you request me to double check, Time, I will take it as you just not liking what Ngo says.

    If you reach the 20 threshold I presented, even though that is barely a dent in the task to prove “generally,” let me know. Otherwise it looks like the panic verification mode Dave engages in.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  25. correcting obvious false hoods should get some small praise.

    Ok…

    Anyways, I’m going to run away now before Paul gets on the scent.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  26. “Good thing Brooks has you in his corner.”

    You’re beclowning yourself again, BuDuh.

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  27. @24, I provided you with a link that summarizes my overall concern with Andy that sources their claims, as well as a concrete example of him being deceptive.

    You’re free to take it how you like but I’ve done a fair job documenting why I find him unreliable. If you want to address that, and the sources they’ve linked to, maybe we can look at another 18.

    But you’re not actually interested in talking about it. You’re just trolling.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  28. Anyways, I’m going to run away now before Paul gets on the scent.

    And that’s why you’re a troll, BuDuh.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  29. Did you ever watch the press conference, Paul?

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  30. Happy Thanksgiving Patterico, Dana, and JVW!

    My time here has come to an end. I am grateful for you letting me post here despite the controversy I create. But I must move on.

    Good luck everyone in your pursuits and have a blessed holiday.

    ~BuDuh

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  31. I followed Dave’s link. It’s another example of Andy misleading his readers. The POI for the vehicle attack posted a picture that’s purported to be from the police about running over black protestors. From he POI’s comments he’s not supportive of the tactic. But Andy represents it as the POI advocating running over protestors. This supports my assertion up thread that Andy and Occupy Democrats unreliable and deserve each other.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  32. Did you ever watch the press conference, Paul?

    The one with the Waukesha police chief? Yes, some of it, including the part where he said “this is not a terrorist event”. It’s funny how trolls ask questions and expect to get answers while they refuse to answer the questions put to them.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  33. @30, have a happy and safe thanksgiving BuDuh

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  34. @20 lol looks like he followed journalism 101 guidelines when a perp posts anything remotely maga related

    and you eat that stuff up all the time

    JF (e1156d)

  35. @34, so you’re agreeing it’s misleading but you feel it’s fair because the other side does it also?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  36. @35 nice try

    but, no, i’m agreeing that you change your criteria for “unreliable” based on whether you like or don’t like the source

    ngo is no more unreliable than just about every other journo

    his batting avg is actually relatively good, and you’ve failed to show otherwise

    JF (e1156d)

  37. @36 that response is *awesome* You know it’s unreliable and your previous comment only makes sense if you think that, but you just *can’t* bring yourself to come right out and say so.

    Also, since you appear to have missed it, On this subject I thank Andy has accurately reported the facts.

    See comment 21 for an explanation on why he’s not reliable if you’re actually interested.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  38. @37 yeah I saw your @21 where you used rolling stone as a source, thus proving my point

    you seem to desperately need me to be a fan of ngo

    i don’t know much about him other than what i read in this blog, really, so sorry to disappoint you

    there seem to be a lot more unreliable things said about ngo than said by ngo

    he seems to be a run of the mill journo with a cause, and simply saying that triggers you and other lefties

    JF (e1156d)

  39. In comment Comment 36 you said”

    his batting avg is actually relatively good…

    But in comment 38 you’re saying

    i don’t know much about him other than what i read in this blog, really, so sorry to disappoint you

    Were you full of crap in 36 when you made the assertion or in 38 when denied knowing much about him?

    Also, if you follow the links on the RS article you can check their sources yourself. You’ll find the article is pretty accurate.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  40. BuDuh,

    I give you credit for constantly wading in and trying to clean up the bad faith arguments and incorrect facts that many post. Have a great Thanksgiving.

    You and frosty have infinitely more patience than I do.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  41. @39 keep clinging

    i know as much about him as i do rolling stone, to which I don’t subscribe

    i guess I’m not allowed to say rolling stone has credibility problems either

    but then, i’ve probably read as much ngo as you have, so you probably think we’re both full of crap

    JF (e1156d)

  42. Happy Thanksgiving Patterico, Dana, and JVW!

    My time here has come to an end. I am grateful for you letting me post here despite the controversy I create. But I must move on.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you too, BuhDuh. If you feel as if you need to take a break from the site for whatever reason then by all means please do so, but do come back if and when the spirit moves you.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  43. So you think Andy Ngo is reliable and RS is unreliable, but you don’t know much about either one? That’s consistent for you.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  44. I don’t think Andy Ngo gets it right 100% of the time by any stretch of the imagination, but given the resources he has to work with I think he does as good a job as your average reporter for the New York Times or Washington Post. Yeah, that might be damming him with faint praise, but I do believe that’s roughly where he sits in the pantheon of reliable media sources. And there can be no doubt that he covers stories which they studiously ignore, so even if you want to ding him for his partisanship I think honesty compels one to acknowledge that he serves as a counterbalance to what Big Media actively chooses to produce.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  45. @43 i bow to your well documented expertise with both

    nobody gets this worked up about a journo cuz he’s “unreliable”

    you’re triggered cuz he’s not unreliable in pursuit of your favorite lefty narratives, like all those unreliable journos you like

    JF (e1156d)

  46. JVW, I’m not dinging him for partisanship or advocacy. I’m not even dinging him for sloppy work. Radly Balko has a POV and has had issues with errors in the past but he’s still worth reading if you keep that in mind.

    I’m dinging him primarily for intentionally misrepresenting facts (see my 2nd link in 21 and Dave’s link for examples) withholding pertinent information (see my first link in 21) and coordinating his coverage with participants in a biased way. (Also shown in 21) The nice thing about the RS article is that the links take you more reliable sources as well as primary material.

    He’s not a journalist. He’s PR. Not everything he says is wrong. But not everything the spokesperson for Amazon tells is wrong. you just can’t trust that either is giving you an accurate summary of the facts. At best they will point you to information you can evaluate yourself.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  47. @45, thank you for admitting you were wrong.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  48. @47 i admit to being sarcastic

    JF (e1156d)

  49. I’m dinging him primarily for intentionally misrepresenting facts (see my 2nd link in 21 and Dave’s link for examples) withholding pertinent information (see my first link in 21) and coordinating his coverage with participants in a biased way. (Also shown in 21) The nice thing about the RS article is that the links take you more reliable sources as well as primary material.

    But don’t you see the irony in your criticizing Ngo for these sins, mere days after the world has been clued in to the malpractice engaged in by Big Media during the Kyle Rittenhouse affair over the past 16 months? “Intentionally misrepresenting facts”? Check. “Withholding pertinent information”? Check. “Coordinating his coverage with participants in a biased way”? Check. If you don’t think that Andy Ngo qualifies as a journalist then certainly you can’t believe that the magazine which perpetrated the UVa rape hoax counts as journalism, nor the outlets who gave us the Steele Dossier, the Covington Kids, “mostly peaceful” protests, and countless other bits of malfeasance. Fair’s fair, right?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  50. But not everything the spokesperson for Amazon tells is wrong. you just can’t trust that either is giving you an accurate summary of the facts. At best they will point you to information you can evaluate yourself.

    I’ll say this much in defense Ngo: He is far more likely to give his readers unnarrated, unedited, and on-the-spot video of events than most of the networks or other Big Media outlets are. I guess we’re going to disagree here, but I think Ngo does just as much if not more to let the reader draw their own conclusions as Big Media does.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  51. Men, women and children run over, murdered in cold blood doesn’t merit a post but making fun of just another BLM lie in a long series of lies does…..

    The media is going to make the Waukesha terrorist act disappear, shameful.

    And if you compare Andy Ngo to the reporting of CNN or MSNBC, he comes off like Conkrite.

    Obudman (2184ae)

  52. “The media is going to make the Waukesha terrorist act disappear, shameful.”

    Why do you think the driver was a terrorist?

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  53. JVW, You’re addressing my points in the abstract. Do you have any comment on the actual examples provided (Dave’s link, or my 2nd one) of his straight forward, intentional misrepresentations? They’re a direct refutation of your claim about what he presents to his readers. I’m not aware that he’s ever corrected a mistake. Why would I take anything this person says at face value?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  54. @52 it was suicide by cop but the police didn’t cooperate

    i don’t expect the authorities to classify it as terrorism even to the point of looking ridiculous

    the guy had a decades long rap sheet and violently attacked his wife, but he couldn’t even be classified as a menace to society and kept off the street, let alone a terrorist

    JF (e1156d)

  55. “the guy had a decades long rap sheet and violently attacked his wife, but he couldn’t even be classified as a menace to society and kept off the street, let alone a terrorist”

    Do you think he was a terrorist?

    Why do you think he wasn’t held without bail?

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  56. @55 i don’t pretend to know, but i’m wondering what it takes to mow down innocent people for several blocks

    i don’t have an answer, but terrorism comes to my mind as a possibility

    how about you?

    and i’m also wondering why it’s a problem to raise it as a possibility and ponder it

    JF (e1156d)

  57. Here’s his most recent one, in regards to the Waukesha killer:

    “On FB, the POI allegedly posted some antisemitic dreck, a cartoon about police brutality, and a photo of a mural of George Floyd. The latter two were enough for Ngo to say he’d posted “in support of BLM causes.” Nowhere did he find anything directly linking the POI to BLM 3/x”

    How could one get from that to suppose he supported BLM? Hard to guess.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  58. BTW, when I say that I generally find the news media unreliable, I don’t have to dig through some twit’s feed to find the evidence.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. Do you think he was a terrorist?

    He may be one now, depending on “why?”

    Why do you think he wasn’t held without bail?

    The “bail” was $1000, which isn’t exactly extortionate.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. “i don’t have an answer, but terrorism comes to my mind as a possibility”

    Based on your “suicide by cop” link I think you do have an answer.

    “how about you?”

    I think he was a career criminal psycopath.

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  61. I think he was a career criminal psychopath.

    If he did it for fun, then yeah. If he did it to punish white people for all those “brown bodies” that Rittenhouse left, then no.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. Or maybe terrorist AND psychopath.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. The media is going to make the Waukesha terrorist act disappear, shameful.

    What “terrorist act”, Obud? Do you know something the Waukesha police chief doesn’t?

    My time here has come to an end.

    Classic. BuDuh picks a fight and then flees. He’s done this before.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  64. After reading more about Brooks, he seems to be a man who was completely adrift from any normal life and finally decided to “get back” at all those people who were enjoying a life he could never find.

    Some form of mental illness that the system ignored for decades, because it was easier.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. In portland the antifa john brown gun club some toting ak-47’s were protecting rittenhouse verdict protesters.

    asset (3fa817)

  66. @64, That seems likely. I haven’t seen a strongly political motivation for his horrible crime yet, but maybe there is one. Still early.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  67. Speaking of protests, the “good people” who organized the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville on an August 2017 weekend are liable for $25 million in damages for their efforts (the jury deadlocked on two federal conspiracy charges).

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  68. @67, I need to read that one. I think the alt right/neo-nazi that didn’t that are scum, but after the fact fines *could* be a way to stifle speech. Depends on the details.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  69. So you think Andy Ngo is reliable and RS is unreliable, but you don’t know much about either one? That’s consistent for you.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/23/2021 @ 11:12 am

    I’d echo, and extend, JVW’s take. You spent a number of comments across multiple threads posting misinformation here. You actively participated in that little propaganda campaign. You were given ample evidence that what you were posting was false.

    Then after you gave it a few days you claimed you didn’t follow the details of the case after the charges were filed, possibly didn’t stay up to date, didn’t know much about the details, etc. But the last time you mentioned it you were still trying to frame the issue using misinformation.

    This isn’t really a high-horse you should be trying to ride.

    frosty (f27e97)

  70. How could one get from that to suppose he supported BLM? Hard to guess.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/23/2021 @ 12:21 pm

    You know you’ve got one of those really good high quality journos doing the debunking and fisking of someone like Ngo when they switch from “in support of BLM causes” to “directly linking the POI to BLM”.

    Those aren’t goalposts and if they are you didn’t see them move.

    frosty (f27e97)

  71. @69, This comment is a lie.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  72. It’s also a logical fallacy. Ngo’s intentional deceptions speak for themself. You either care about that, or you don’t. But it’s your lie about me that really annoys me.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  73. Some people just can’t have enough GWOT, I guess.

    nk (1d9030)

  74. “You know you’ve got one of those really good high quality journos doing the debunking and fisking of someone like Ngo when they switch from “in support of BLM causes” to “directly linking the POI to BLM”.”

    Do you think he was a terrorist?

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  75. “The vehicle took an abrubt left turn into the crowd of parade participants”. – Officer Butryn.

    I call it terrorism because I couldn’t think of a stronger word. And it doesn’t even rate a post here.

    “Jackson Sparks, an 8-year-old boy who was marching in the Waukesha Christmas Parade with his baseball team, has died from his injuries.

    Jackson’s death was announced Tuesday afternoon on his verified GoFundMe page and was confirmed by his baseball club and his family’s church.”

    Obudman (2184ae)

  76. @69, This comment is a lie.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/23/2021 @ 2:10 pm

    The only mistake I made was I forgot to say “about the Rittenhouse case” but I thought that was clear from the context. It annoyed me too since I was one of the people responding to your misinformation.

    frosty (409319)

  77. Can you point to a comment you feel is misinformation?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  78. @75, terrorism has a specific meaning. Also, if it’s something you feel so passionate about why haven’t you posted anything substantive about it?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  79. I would say that atrocity is a better fit for Waukesha than terrorism.

    an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  80. Not everything that scares Charlie Sykes is terrorism.

    But good work, comrades! You have managed to make three threads in a row boring and annoying.

    nk (1d9030)

  81. Ah, Scheisse! Never mind. Here’s why they’re doing it:

    Jan. 6 committee subpoenas Proud Boys, Oath Keepers

    nk (1d9030)

  82. whoops, my bad

    The district attorney whose office let out Waukesha parade killer Darrell Brooks on a $1,000 bond three weeks ago previously admitted he knew his laxed bail policies would lead to killers being set free and murdering others, saying flippantly in a 2007 interview: ‘You bet, it’s guaranteed to happen.’

    John Chisholm was elected as Milwaukee County District Attorney in 2007 and he immediately started advocating for lower cash bonds for criminals, like Brooks – a felon with a history of domestic violence charges who was most recently locked up for running over the mother of his children.

    In 2007, Chisholm told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: ‘Is there going to be an individual I divert, or I put into treatment program, who’s going to go out and kill somebody? You bet. Guaranteed. It’s guaranteed to happen.

    ‘It does not invalidate the overall approach.’

    JF (e1156d)

  83. Put Peter Strzok and the fbi on the job, and watch orange man bad go to jail.

    mg (8cbc69)

  84. “whoops, my bad”

    If someone is a threat to the community or a flight risk, they should be held without bond. If they aren’t they should be released without bond.

    Yes, this includes Rittenhouse and many of the 9/11 rioters.

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  85. As expected for the Daily Mail, they’re lying about the quote.

    Darrell Brooks was not diverted, or put into a treatment program. The linked article doesn’t support their assertion that “he immediately started advocating for lower cash bonds for criminals, like Brooks – a felon with a history of domestic violence charges who was most recently locked up for running over the mother of his children”. In fact, it states the opposite, that he “has long been a proponent of diverting nonviolent offenders from the traditional criminal justice system to programs aimed at giving them a second chance.”

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  86. Not to mention that there have been a couple or four elections since 2007.

    nk (1d9030)

  87. But then, they didn’t like the Kenosha prosecutor, either.

    nk (1d9030)

  88. JVW, You’re addressing my points in the abstract. Do you have any comment on the actual examples provided (Dave’s link, or my 2nd one) of his straight forward, intentional misrepresentations?

    I think you’re imputing an argument to me that I am not making. Note in my comment at 11:14 am I begin by stating, “I don’t think Andy Ngo gets it right 100% of the time by any stretch of the imagination.” Your example of his misrepresentation of El Paso is fine as far as it goes, but all I am saying is that is no different than the Washington Post’s misrepresentation of the Covington Kids or CNN’s misrepresentation of Kyle Rittenhouse. So when you declare that Andy Ngo is not a journalist while, if I am not misrepresenting your argument, asserting that CNN, WaPo, NYT, et al. are, that’s where I just can’t agree with you.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  89. @85. the article doesn’t say brooks was diverted

    the quote is indicative of the weight chisholm assigns the safety of the community under his jurisdiction

    brooks was given bail, at $1000, based on a recommendation from the DA

    you seem to want to attribute that decision to something or someone else, but won’t say

    what’s your theory?

    JF (e1156d)

  90. Andy Ngo is about as much of a reporter as Leni Riefenstahl was. He is a propagandist for MAGA and especially the Proud Boys. He should feel flattered when anyone takes him seriously enough to question the accuracy of his accounts.

    nk (1d9030)

  91. Do you think he was a terrorist?

    Davethulhu (ffac4e) — 11/23/2021 @ 2:47 pm

    I don’t have any evidence that he was. I’d say I don’t know enough about the details to make a guess at motive.

    frosty (f27e97)

  92. Andy Ngo is about as much of a reporter as Leni Riefenstahl was.

    Yes. But he’s every bit as much the journalist that Chris Cuomo, Brian Seltzer, Don Lemon, Rachel Maddow, Chris Hayes, Brian Williams, Paul Krugman, Linda Greenhouse, et cetera, are.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  93. Can you point to a comment you feel is misinformation?

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/23/2021 @ 3:49 pm

    Before we do that;

    There was widespread misinformation about the KR case spread by the media. You repeated some of that misinformation here. You were told it was incorrect. You had ample opportunity to understand the facts of the case. You repeated the misinformation. When I asked you about it you said you didn’t follow it after the charges were filed and could have missed some good reporting.

    Which part is a lie?

    frosty (f27e97)

  94. JVW (ee64e4) — 11/23/2021 @ 8:32 pm

    There’s that subtle wit again. We all know none of the people you compared him to are journalists. Any more that Allan Alda is a doctor.

    The italics were a nice but unnecessary touch.

    frosty (f27e97)

  95. “brooks was given bail, at $1000, based on a recommendation from the DA”

    No it wasn’t.

    That $1,000 figure was set while the suspect, Darrell Brooks, was already out on bail from a prior arrest. In the first case, in which he was charged with two counts of 2nd degree recklessly endangering safety and felon in possession of a firearm, what started as a $10,000 bail was reduced to $7,500 in July of last year. That amount fell to just $500 a little more than six months later when Brooks’ demand for a speedy jury trial could not be met and he was released in late February.

    On November 5, the Milwaukee Co. District Attorney’s Office charged Brooks with second degree recklessly endangering safety, felony bail jumping, battery, obstructing an officer and disorderly conduct. While the District Attorney John Chisholm stood by those charges in a statement Monday, his office’s statement was highly critical of the bail recommendation of $1,000 that resulted in Brooks being released less than a week later.

    “The State’s bail recommendation in this case was inappropriately low in light of the nature of the recent charges and the pending charges against Mr. Brooks,” the statement declared. Chisholm claimed the recommendation did not follow his office’s approach to violent crime allegations nor was it in line with a risk assessment of Brooks based on his criminal record.

    https://www.nbc15.com/2021/11/22/waukesha-parade-suspects-bail-previous-crime-inappropriately-low/

    “you seem to want to attribute that decision to something or someone else, but won’t say”

    It was probably a mix up of some sort. Not as dramatic as a 14 year old out of context quote.

    “what’s your theory?”

    My theory is that The Daily Mail is lying.

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  96. @95: “No it wasn’t”

    chisholm seems to disagree with you

    Chisholm said the DA’s office will conduct an internal review of how the bail recommendation was set at $1,000 “in order to determine the appropriate next steps.”

    let me guess: everyone’s lying

    JF (e1156d)

  97. “chisholm seems to disagree with you”

    You said “a recommendation from the DA”. “The DA’s office” doesn’t mean “the room the DA works in”.

    Davethulhu (ffac4e)

  98. We all know none of the people you compared him to are journalists. Any more that Allan Alda is a doctor.

    Au contraire mon frère, the problem is that Seltzer, Maddow, Williams, et alia are exactly who is meant by the modern definition of “journalist.” This is the problem we face.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  99. @97 it’s his office, but as with everything lately i guess the buck stops somewhere way over there

    JF (e1156d)

  100. Kenosha’s too hard, and Milwaukee’s too soft. I guess Racine’s just right.

    nk (1d9030)

  101. JVW (ee64e4) — 11/23/2021 @ 9:07 pm

    This is a conundrum from which I cannot find an exit.

    frosty (f27e97)

  102. Well said JVW.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  103. Frosty @93. Please either provide some proof of my posting misinformation or retract your lie and apologize.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  104. @92, JVW, you just provided a list of leftist commentators that are also not generally reliable. Again, not saying their every utterance is incorrect, but in general their work merits varying degrees of scrutiny.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  105. Au contraire mon frère, the problem is that Seltzer, Maddow, Williams, et alia are exactly who is meant by the modern definition of “journalist.” This is the problem we face.

    No. Seltzer and Maddow are opinionators; on air “talent” who read copy fed into a teleprompter and no more “journalists” than Ron Burgundy (though Williams once was a genuine field reporter and more importantly, held the title of the managing editor at one time ubtil he abused it.) Which is why Lester Holt desperately wanted that title bestowed on him earlier this year when he inked a new deal at NBC News. The ME has final say on stories reported, their order in the broadcast and is responsible for the content of his/her broadcast. They’re not unlike the flight director of a space shot.

    You want to know who controls your news flow and content, just look them up for the various platforms: it’s the Managing Editor.

    For example, at CNN, it’s Matt Hilk. Ever heard of him? Doubtful- but he controls what goes into those CNN teleprompters and gets on air for Coop and Seltzer to read.

    https://www.cnn.com/profiles/matthew-hilk

    “Matthew Hilk is the Vice President of News and Managing Editor of CNN/U.S. He directs reporting pursuits and the editorial focus on top domestic stories across all platforms, while also overseeing CNN’s domestic beats, including Race and Equality, Policing, CNN Health, CNN Weather and Climate Crisis coverage.

    During his tenure at CNN, Hilk led reporting teams through multiple breaking news stories, including the COVID-19 pandemic, nationwide protests following the death of George Floyd, the border and immigration crisis, the mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, Dayton, Ohio and Pittsburgh, and Hurricanes Dorian, Michael and Florence.

    Hilk joined CNN as senior broadcast producer for The Lead with Jake Tapper based in Washington, D.C. He previously served as news director and news manager at NBC and ABC affiliates in the Nashville, Tenn., Pittsburgh and Birmingham, Ala. markets and led newsrooms to win the National Edward R. Murrow Award for Overall Excellence and the Emmy for News Excellence. Hilk holds a bachelor’s degree in history from the University of Pennsylvania.”

    You can look them up for the various news media platforms today; how the company management is structured has something to do with it as well- some broadcasts anchors have the title; others do not- but it is the position of Managing Editor that wields the power and what most ‘anchors’ want.

    Back in the day at CBS News, when broadcast TV news was just getting started and formatted, it was Walter Cronkite- an experienced print reporter for both newspapers and wire services– and a war correspondent as well; who insisted he be given that title- Managing Editor for the CBS Evening News- and thus becoming wholly responsible for the content of the evening news broadcast, the order in which the stories aired and the images used and content of the copy read. Ever since then, all news ‘anchors’ seek that title and responsibility that goes with it– for better or worse. And that, truly, is the way it is.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  106. 55. Davethulhu (ffac4e) — 11/23/2021 @ 12:10 pm

    “the guy had a decades long rap sheet and violently attacked his wife,

    Were any of the women he was associated with ever officially married to him?

    He was in court a lot about child support, and, from time to time, warrants were issued for his arrest in that connection, as is customary in Wisconsin.

    but he couldn’t even be classified as a menace to society and kept off the street, let alone a terrorist”

    He was kept off the street for about seven months, from July 24 2020 till February, 21, 2021, following his firing from an illegal gun to his nephew, (he didn’t hit him, perhaps on purpose) but the DA couldn’t bother prioritizing his case, so he was let go on $500 bail following a speedy trial motion. Maybe there’s too much crime in Milwaukee. And, of course, all the people he threatened or assaulted were unimportant people, and nobody important knew about the charges. This is the thing to complain about.

    Do you think he was a terrorist?

    It doesn’t fit the common definition of terrorism, which is somehow supposed to be related to a familiar “cause.”

    Why do you think he wasn’t held without bail?

    Such things aren’t done in Milwaukee, or maybe all of Wisconsin. Even now he wasn’t held without bail, but was granted $5 million bail. This is open hypocrisy: the intent is that he shouldn’t be released. It seems to me that that more violates the constitution than remanding him without bail.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  107. The CBS Evening News reported last night that, after he stopped, he got out of his car, and knocked on somebody’s door and said he was waiting for an Uber (but it was cold?) He made conversation, asking if there was something going on downtown (about half a mile away) There were warnings that someone was on the loose, but only the perpetrator saw them. He talked to his grandmother.

    The owner of the house started to get a litrle suspicious because the Uber wasn’t coming, and eventually the police knocked on his door (did they get his name from the license plate on his car, and then his cellphone and then trace his location?)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  108. The running over on November 2nd wasn’t too serious. He had argued with the woman in a hotel room where he punched her in the face, and later followed her in his SUV to the parking lot of a gas station where he drove the vehicle over her left pants leg, but the notable injuries were to her face. Swelling on her lip and dried blood on her face.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  109. You guys do know that the real reason Asians have a reputation for being smart is that they have no blondes, right?

    nk (1d9030)

  110. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/24/2021 @ 2:33 am

    JVW wasn’t talking about how the industry actually works, but who hoi polloi believe to be a journalist.

    felipe (484255)

  111. The American news industry should do what the Brits do; call them newsreaders. I also like the way the people refer to them as talking heads. But no, someone thinks we need celebrated “journalists” to read to us.

    felipe (484255)

  112. Frosty @93. Please either provide some proof of my posting misinformation or retract your lie and apologize.
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/24/2021 @ 12:59 am

    ok

    Here’s you starting with an attempt to re-frame any past statements and lay the groundwork for the future.

    I haven’t followed this trial as closely, but it’s interesting. I think the case that he’s guilty seems a lot weaker then I had thought.

    Be interesting to see what the Jury finds.
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/9/2021 @ 10:07 am

    Here’s you posting misinformation.

    Dustin, he didn’t find himself there. He sought out that bad situation on purpose. He may not have committed a crime that night. That looks more likely based on what I’ve seen in the trial so far. But he armed himself, went there on purpose, killed a man, fled the scene, shot others on his way out, and did not turn himself into the police. The fact that the rioters are also bad people is besides the point.
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/10/2021 @ 8:56 am

    Here’s you again acknowledging that you had bad information and updated some of it at trial.

    Dustin, I get what you’re saying and I agree with you about how the trial has been going. What I’ve seen so far has answered some of the questions and concerns that I had, enjoyed talking it through with you, thank you for taking the time.
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/11/2021 @ 11:15 am

    After that here’s an exchange where misinformation you posted was brought to your attention.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/11/2021 @ 1:55 pm
    You have said some version of “flee the scene” in a number of comments. He didn’t “flee the scene”. What are you referring to when you say that?

    That was the most concerning to me as I wasn’t clear what the motivation of the people who attacked him was.

    The people who attacked him had a clear motivation. We knew that before trial. … none of this is new information.

    The fact that he didn’t turn himself in after he got away counted against him in my mind.

    This did not happen. He absolutely turned himself him. The fact that he tried to turn himself in at the scene and later turned himself in at a police station should tell you he didn’t go there to shoot anyone.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/11/2021 @ 4:25 pm

    After the trial was finished and you’d had several days to review available sources. Here’s you returning to the “flee the scene” claim

    @297, I hadn’t seen a credible report about people shot as he was fleeing the scene of the first shooting. There were a number of assertions made but I wasn’t convinced any of those were accurate. To be fair to the media, I didn’t follow it as closely after the charges were filed and it’s possible I missed some good reporting.
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/22/2021 @ 3:17 pm

    You updated the scope a bit to “the first shooting” but he didn’t “flee the scene” there either.

    For review:

    You spent a number of comments across multiple threads posting misinformation here.

    True

    You actively participated in that little propaganda campaign.

    True

    You were given ample evidence that what you were posting was false.

    True

    Then after you gave it a few days you claimed you didn’t follow the details of the case after the charges were filed, possibly didn’t stay up to date, didn’t know much about the details, etc.

    True

    But the last time you mentioned it you were still trying to frame the issue using misinformation.

    True

    frosty (f27e97)

  113. So is anyone going to talk about how this mass murderer was obviously a black supremacist who clearly believed leftist lies about how our society oppresses minorities and is a racist society where he’s the victim?

    How much harm has the media and victimization society done in their quest for power?

    NJRob (dd759b)

  114. Not me, NJRob. I have no reason to believe that he is anything more than a verminous lowlife.

    nk (1d9030)

  115. I’m not seeing the distinction between

    black supremacist who clearly believed leftist lies

    and

    verminous lowlife

    frosty (f27e97)

  116. So is anyone going to talk about how this mass murderer was obviously a black supremacist who clearly believed leftist lies about how our society oppresses minorities and is a racist society where he’s the victim?

    If his ideology motivated him to mass-kill parade goers with his SUV, then yes, it should be talked about, but I haven’t seen confirmation of it.
    The Waukesha police chief stated that “this is not a terrorist event”. Every other house in Seattle has a BLM sign in the window, so if one of those occupants shoots up a bar, don’t mean it’s a terrorist attack, and it would unwise to default to that.
    To me, it’s not advisable to commit the same “sin” that the MSM did with Rittenhouse, i.e., jumping the gun before knowing enough facts to make a fair conclusion.
    The Waukesha guy could be a mental case, he could’ve been in a rage, he could’ve been inspired by a Black Panther podcast before stepping into his SUV and committing this atrocity. We don’t know with any certainty.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  117. I found this hypothetical recently at Eugene Volokh’s site on Reason:

    Hypo #1: 250 lb Adam and 100 lb Bob have a dispute in a bar. Adam threatens to kill Bob. Bob goes out to his car, gets a gun, and returns, thinking ‘if he makes good on his threat, the size difference means I’ll have to shoot him or be killed, but I’m OK with that because I really want a beer, now, in this particular bar’. Adam does attack, and Bob shoots him. Adam is clearly wrong, but what about Bob?

    It did generate some interesting opinions on an individual’s obligation to retreat from a clear threat and the applicability of precedent like Laney v. U.S. (1923) which suggested that one’s right to invoke self defense gets attenuated if one’s presence intentionally “provokes trouble” or in the Rittenhouse case, “provokes confrontation” which will lead to violence and the reasonably anticipated use of deadly force.

    The facts of of Laney are drenched in race which make me wonder how the case might hve turned if the racial roles had been reversed….but it is thought provoking. Though I thought Rittenhouse had a valid self-defense claim….as Bob might have had in the hypo….there’s still some scratchy moral culpability. What if Bob had not returned to the bar (let’s also ignore that there are likely laws about bringing a gun into a bar in many locals)? Would Adam win…is this an example of a Heckler’s Veto? Would Bob’s liberty to get that beer and stand up to Adam been infringed….or did it result in well understood escalation that had a clear anticipated result?

    The element of Rittenhouse that troubles me is not the positioning to protect a specific property….like the Korean grocers on the roof protecting their store during the LA riots….but the broader patrolling of the area and the inevitable confrontation….where the average observer would conclude that…especially in the relative fog of a riot….that something tragic would likely occur. Bob knew things would likely escalate and knew it would not be a fist fight….and that he likely had the edge (now). If there is not legal culpability, I still wonder if there is clear moral culpability. Bob killed someone when he had an opportunity to safely back away to a less confrontational position. There’s some gray here to keep in mind…..

    AJ_Liberty (3cb02f)

  118. If, and I say “IF”, I’m going to blame an ideology I’ll blame the drug legalization assholes who claim that ganja does not cause Rastas to act out violently. In Jamaica, he would have used a machete. In Wisconsin, he used a car.

    nk (1d9030)

  119. It’s in the news. The “good neighbor” who let him use his phone, made him a sandwich, and then called the police, said he reeked of marijuana.

    nk (1d9030)

  120. I’m sure the media will have a long and frank conversation with the American people about this. Because if I know anything, it is Democrats and media hate misinformation and disinformation. In the meantime, I am resting well knowing that Twitter will suspend Occupy Democrats.

    Hoi Polloi (f4e634)

  121. I felt I should at least come back and thank JVW for the kind words and show appreciation for the welcome mat he has laid at the door step. Thank you.

    Here is an example of why I need a long break:

    To me, it’s not advisable to commit the same “sin” that the MSM did with Rittenhouse, i.e., jumping the gun before knowing enough facts to make a fair conclusion.

    Uh huh…

    Looking back on the first comments after the Kenosha shooting one will may be astonished at the comments that were made by the same person who asks, above, for restraint when it comes to an actual murderer:

    http://patterico.com/2020/08/26/milwaukee-bucks-boycott-playoff-game/

    Good job on consistency, Paul. You really grasped the facts that night.

    Thanks again, JVW.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  122. Thank you, BuDuh. That took some real stalkery effort on your part to find that.
    I’m man enough to admit I was mistaken about Rittenhouse shooting those guys in self-defense. And guess what, I learned from my mistakes. Do you?
    I do maintain to this day that a 17-year old minor should not be carrying an AR15 around on the street, especially without adult supervision. The officers who interacted with Rittenhouse before the shooting him could’ve averted the whole episode by carding him.
    It’s too bad you’re not man enough to answer questions.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  123. Laney v. U.S. (1923) which suggested that one’s right to invoke self defense gets attenuated if one’s presence intentionally “provokes trouble” or in the Rittenhouse case, “provokes confrontation” which will lead to violence and the reasonably anticipated use of deadly force.

    I doubt that any refinement of this rule 100 years later is likely to be less restrictive on the idea of self-defense.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. It was very simple, no stalking at all. On the side bar there are archived months. I went to the month of the shooting and to a day shortly after the shooting and selected a topic. I then used the “control-f” feature to search “Paul.”

    I think of you as a completely dishonest broker, with lackluster research skills, that resorts to table pounding to get a win. Armed with that impression. I was certain that a quick search would prove me correct. One does not have to stalk someone who is so openly hypocritical.

    Anywho, that is my personal opinion of you and my reason to be a coward when it comes to your form of engagement. Simply put, I don’t like you and would never want to be in your acquaintance.

    Have a nice holiday, everyone.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  125. AJ_Liberty (3cb02f) — 11/24/2021 @ 7:59 am

    Looks like a law prof likes Back to the Future. Without knowing the jurisdiction:

    Adam threatens to kill Bob.

    Biff has committed the common law crime of assault. The bar owner might have a tortious interference claim.

    Adam does attack

    Biff has committed the common law crime of battery. The bar owners claim just improved.

    Bob shoots him

    Marty has an affirmative defense of self defense at common law.

    is this an example of a Heckler’s Veto?

    No. Heckler’s Veto has a different fact pattern.

    did it result in well understood escalation

    There’s nothing in the fact pattern a reasonable person could claim is escalation or provocation.

    frosty (f27e97)

  126. The officers who interacted with Rittenhouse before the shooting him could’ve averted the whole episode by carding him.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/24/2021 @ 8:28 am

    Carded him for what? It wasn’t illegal for him to have the gun.

    The whole episode could have been averted if the officers who had interacted with KR had done their job of protecting the community, e.g. preventing riots and looting.

    frosty (f27e97)

  127. I think of you as a completely dishonest broker, with lackluster research skills, that resorts to table pounding to get a win.

    Personal attack noted. But that’s okay, you’re a bad faith troll who uses sketchy sources to tout home remedies like ivermectin and other right-wing propaganda. I’m glad we cleared the air.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  128. 😭

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  129. 2 things Paul:

    1) As we learned at the trial it wasn’t illegal for Rittenhouse to have the gun he had on him.

    2) You jumped to conclusions on this very murder by saying he was fleeing the scene of another crime and therefore this wasn’t intentional.

    He was a thug fleeing another crime scene.

    So you don’t hesitate to jump when it comes to certain positions.

    Thank you BuDuh for your research.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  130. Frosty, Most of the statements you pointed out are correct.

    He did put himself into that situation. He did shoot a man, flee that scene (left quickly if you prefer) and then shoot 2 other people.

    He did attempt to turn himself in to police in Kenosha. I admit I was wrong about that. My conclusions based on initial reporting were incorrect and I did’t have it correct until trial.

    But none of it is misinformation or in support of propaganda campaign.

    Also, at no point in your comments did you point to a source that showed different information. let alone provide “ample evidence”.

    But thank you for showing anyone that cares what you meant. People can decide for themselves if my comments are misinformation.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  131. BuDuh (4a7846) — 11/24/2021 @ 8:16 am

    Thanks for that link.

    I’d like to amend @112 with

    It was a tense situation. There were angry protesters, rioters, people just trying to go about their lives, and untrained, armed, civilians trying to help. One of them, a legal child who was himself breaking the law by being there with a rifle, killed a man, fled that scene without alerting the authorities of the shooting, was pursued by people trying to detain him, killed and injured his pursuers.

    Time123 (306531) — 8/27/2020 @ 4:12 am

    as additional details Time123 was requesting.

    frosty (f27e97)

  132. @129, it was Legal for Rittenhouse to be in that place and armed. It was also a terrible idea.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  133. I think of you as a completely dishonest broker, with lackluster research skills, that resorts to table pounding to get a win.

    That is what the judge ruled, and he noted there was a lack of clarity in the law. The LEOs could have carded Rittenhouse and held his gun without getting sued, IMO.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  134. Oops, wrong blockquote. I was replying to this.

    Carded him for what? It wasn’t illegal for him to have the gun.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  135. So you don’t hesitate to jump when it comes to certain positions.

    Like you’re jumping to conclusions about the Waukesha killer, Rob?
    I already said my comment was a mistake, that’s what good-faith commenters do.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  136. My comment from a year ago, made very shortly after the shooting, was wrong. If you read other comments I’ve made you’ll see I’ve admitted that in some cases and in others said I was looking for the trail to help determine what was correct and what wasn’t.

    If you’re really curious about my thought process I think I made a bunch of comments about what the law says regarding possession of a firearm. I thought it stated a minor could only have a rifle if it were for the purposes of hunting, the judge ruled otherwise. I was wrong about that as well.

    I’m not asserting I was correct about the events. I’m denying that being wrong is the same thing as spreading misinformation / participating in a propaganda campaign.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  137. @113, NJRob, do you have any actual evidence about his motivations being black supremacy? I haven’t seen anything credible about what motivated him yet.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  138. Time,

    you misread what I posted again. I said he was a black supremacist. His postings on his social media before they were taken down prove that.

    I didn’t say it was motive.

    Revisit how the driver killing a woman in Charlottesville was portrayed by the media if you need further documentation on media bias.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  139. NJRob, sorry I misunderstood you. Do you have a link to screen shots of those posts? I’m legitimately interested in learning more.

    Based on what came out in the sentencing of the man that killed a women at the Unit the Right rally I don’t think he’s the one you want to hold up as being portrayed unfairly.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  140. David Brooks was probably arrested on November 2nd (which was Election Day) charged on Friday November 5th, and released on Thursday November 11th (Veterans Day) after posting $1,000 cash bail. He probably had help from someone in posting that bail, probably a woman.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  141. Correction: The name of the Waukesha, Wisconsin murderer is Darrell E. Brooks, not David Brooks.

    In February of this year, the same month that he got out on reduced $500 bail on the shooting incident on July 24, 2020, a judge issued a bench warrant for his arrest because he had reneged on an agreement to pay the woman $151 a month in child support and also $50 she had lent him. Litigation in that case has been going on more than 10 years.

    Bench warrants are usually never executed until and unless someone has another encounter with the police. The New York Times,which mentioned this in an article in the Tuesday newspaper, doesn’t say how it affected his release.

    It did talk to a Marsha Winters, who said she was a friend and occasional lover, said that he stayed in her family’s basement for a day or two in August. Se is quoted as saying:

    “I’m just in shock. I thought I knew him. I guess you don’t know what people are capable of until they do something like this.”

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  142. Revisit how the driver killing a woman in Charlottesville was portrayed by the media if you need further documentation on media bias.

    What bias did the media demonstrate when portraying the murderer?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  143. njrob,

    I am prepared to believe that this guy was simply unable to cope with modern society and finally lashed out at those who could. Motivation: deranged.

    Of course new information would be helpful, but at this point that’s my bet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  144. I didn’t say it was unfair. I said it was an example of media bias.

    Why is it so hard for you to read what I post instead of putting prejudicial spin on it?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  145. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235869/Waukesha-suspect-shared-social-media-posts-promoting-violence-white-people.html

    For one example. There are plenty of others if you go on his facebook archive or web search a bit. Not hard to find.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  146. @139

    https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/darrell-brooks-called-for-violence-against-white-people/

    but, those are good probing questions, Time123

    have you ever asked similar when the accused is purported to be maga inspired?

    JF (e1156d)

  147. I didn’t say it was unfair. I said it was an example of media bias.

    Why is it so hard for you to read what I post instead of putting prejudicial spin on it?

    Can you provide an example of media bias in his case? I don’t recall any.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  148. Rip,

    since this might be difficult for you to understand, I chose Charlottesville because it was an obvious example of a white supremacist incident. This is an obvious example of a black supremacist who murdered several.

    We know the media will run with white supremacy any chance they get. They tried to tar Rittenhouse with the same brush.

    This, they’ll studiously ignore.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  149. “People can decide for themselves if my comments are misinformation.”

    Yes, this is a pretty high standard to impose on a medium designed to elicit hot takes on evolving news stories. I wonder how many here would survive a careful analysis of their own assertions and conclusions? This is where good faith comes in….and probably holding back on calling someone a liar….except for the most flagrant and consequential abuses. The downsides of internet exchanges are that unlike In Real Life….there’s really no investment…not much empathy…and little reputational consequence. Everyone comes with their own agenda….and many come simply to spin others up…and to be kind of nasty. That’s why not all interactions are worth it. We all have our own ideological blind spots….and sometimes it’s good to have those tested….whether we’re discussing covid mandates, CRT, or the boundaries of self defense. The problem is when it gets personal or is made personal…calling someone a liar certainly makes it personal…..

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  150. the suspect’s state of mind is only half the story that’s getting ignored

    the media at large, and some here, are also uncurious about the woke DA who by his own words and actions demoted public safety as a concern of his

    flip the script, and both are top of the fold news for weeks, and biden gets asked about it incessantly

    JF (e1156d)

  151. “White privilege” is thinking that you can burn and loot and throw sh1t at cops and you’ll get away with it because you’re white. Like most of Antifa.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  152. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/24/2021 @ 8:51 am

    The phrase flee the scene is not free of context and it’s not one that you can substitute “left quickly” for. This is another example of you stepping just a little past a mistake.

    I’ve given you the evidence you asked for. I don’t think

    But thank you for showing anyone that cares what you meant.

    is as adequate response. You cared enough to call me a liar 3 times, ask for evidence twice, and demand an apology.

    frosty (f27e97)

  153. 119. nk (1d9030) — 11/24/2021 @ 8:02 am

    The “good neighbor” who let him use his phone, made him a sandwich, and then called the police, said he reeked of marijuana.

    The CBS Evening News didn’t tell that part (how the police knew to come to his house) so I hypothesized that they got his name from his license plates, and his cell phone number (assuming he had one, but then I think CBS said Brooks was using the homeowner’s phone – I kind I kind of ignored that if I heard that) and then got his location from his cellphone. The CBS story sounded somewhat abridged.

    Here’s a written version of the CBS News stoty:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/darrell-brooks-waukesha-wisconsin-holiday-parade-daniel-rider

    …Daniel Rider said he was sitting in his living room watching the Dallas Cowboys play the Kansas City Chiefs when Brooks knocked on his door, asking for help. He had no clue about the mayhem that unfolded downtown just moments earlier. Rider said his mom told him the message of a church sermon about helping the homeless.

    “So I was like, ‘Oh! This was my chance to help somebody. I’m going to warm him up and give him some food,'” Rider told David Begnaud, lead national correspondent for CBS Mornings.

    The encounter, captured on a Ring doorbell camera, occurred moments after the deadly crash at the Christmas parade. Brooks left his red SUV nearby Rider’s home.

    I remember hearing about the doorbell camera.

    Brooks looked thin and cold, Rider said. He lent Brooks his jacket and phone and made him a sandwich. Brooks sat on his couch the entire time, he said, and made several phone calls to his mother while waiting for an Uber to pick him up.

    That sounds like Brooks’ phone. I he didn’t have a phone, how could he have pretended to have called a Uber. You juat can’t call a Uber from any phone. There is an app, and the app links Uber to a payment source.

    “He was so polite. He was nice to me. He listened to everything I told him to do. Now, knowing what he just did moments before that, it’s hard to even wrap your head around,” Rider said.

    According to Rider, Brooks even asked him if he knew what was going on downtown where Brooks was accused of killing five and wounding 62 others. But Rider had been tuned into the football game and Brooks had his phone, which was receiving alerts to shelter in place. “I had no idea anything was happening,” Rider said.

    OK, so what? Brooks was holding two phones? You have to have a phone of your ow to call (and pay) Uber, unless somebody else does it for you.

    “He is he is telling me that, ‘Oh, is there something going on downtown?’ I was like, ‘There’s a parade today.’ And he was like, ‘Oh, that’s probably the parade.’ So he was just completely putting on a face and lying about everything,” Rider said.

    About 10 minutes after Brooks arrived, Rider said he started “getting real nervous” because a police car was driving up and down the street. He asked for Brooks to leave.

    So Daniel Rider didn;t call the police. The police car going up and down the street ties in with the idea that they traced his location through his cell phone, because GPS is not that precise.

    Brooks was arrested shortly after

    The broadcast story said the police knocked on his door. his written story skips over that step. Neither says that Rider called the police, or that he smelled of marijuana.

    and Rider said the Uber arrived about a minute after he was put in handcuffs.

    The Uber really came? He must have asked his mother to call the Uber.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  154. @148-

    I see. Thanks for clarifying.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  155. I don’t see this guy as a black supremacist. Where does he say that blacks should be in charge of society or have an outsized role therein?

    I see him as a run-of-the-mill Internet nutbar who finally cracked.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  156. The CBS news story probably inadvertantly left out a word: parked. And had bad syntax.

    Brooks left his red SUV [parked] nearby Rider’s home.

    It should either be:

    Brooks left his red SUV [parked] nearby

    OR:

    Brooks left his red SUV [parked] near Rider’s home.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  157. because GPS is not that precise.

    GPS is damn precise. Most definitely good enough for hand grenades.

    What is not precise is the cellular signal-strength/triangulation schemes they use to find cell phones when they are unable to access the phone’s internal GPS.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  158. That is what the judge ruled, and he noted there was a lack of clarity in the law. The LEOs could have carded Rittenhouse and held his gun without getting sued, IMO.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/24/2021 @ 8:55 am

    The stop and frisk tactics were controversial and prone to abuse. This sounds like illegal search and seizure to me. I’m not going to advocate for the police to start confiscating firearms without cause because “the law isn’t clear” and “they can’t be sued”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  159. #109 nk

    “You guys do know that the real reason Asians have a reputation for being smart is that they have no blondes, right?”

    Curb your toxic swarthiness there Mr. before I go berserk on some Italians, after mistaking them for Greeks

    steveg (e81d76)

  160. Breaking-Ahmaud Arbery verdicts:

    Travis McMichael guilty of felony murder, assault, false imprisonment.

    Gregory McMichael guilty of felony murder, assault, false imprisonment.

    William Brian guilty of felony murder, assault, false imprisonment.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  161. “woke DA who by his own words and actions demoted public safety as a concern of his”

    No he didn’t. We already went through this.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  162. @161 looks like you need to review the thread

    JF (e1156d)

  163. The stop and frisk tactics were controversial and prone to abuse.

    What’s to “frisk”? He was openly carrying. Police ask for IDs all the time.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  164. No he didn’t. We already went through this.
    Davethulhu (f178d9) — 11/24/2021 @ 10:45 am

    Do you think this person should have been released on his other charges without bond? Or do you think he should still be in jail?

    frosty (f27e97)

  165. Hmm, let’s review.

    “Darrell Brooks was not diverted, or put into a treatment program. The linked article doesn’t support their assertion that “he immediately started advocating for lower cash bonds for criminals, like Brooks – a felon with a history of domestic violence charges who was most recently locked up for running over the mother of his children”. In fact, it states the opposite, that he “has long been a proponent of diverting nonviolent offenders from the traditional criminal justice system to programs aimed at giving them a second chance.””

    Nope, it looks like you’re still wrong.

    The DA’s “wokeness” apparently has nothing to do with how Brooks was treated by the DA’s office.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  166. @152, I think your characterization of my comments as misinformation and part of a propaganda campaign is a lie, and clearly so.

    If it makes you feel better I’ll repeat what I’ve said in other places and other ways. Part of what I saw was wrong. I’ve admitted that, and will continue to do so if asked. He’s innocent, the facts revealed at trial show that. My concerns about what he did and why (especially the he people he shot while running from the fist shooting) were answered.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  167. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/24/2021 @ 10:54 am

    Advocating for confiscating property without cause based on “can’t be sued” and “lack of clarity” doesn’t seem like a position I’d expect from you.

    frosty (f27e97)

  168. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/24/2021 @ 10:17 am

    I don’t see this guy as a black supremacist. Where does he say that blacks should be in charge of society or have an outsized role therein?

    I see him as a run-of-the-mill Internet nutbar who finally cracked.

    Not that nutty. He knew how to lie.

    He maybe had thoughts of being a hero in prison. A big rapper. (He wasn’t having any success promoting himself.) For that, the crime didn’t have to make any sense. Rappers extol crimes without bothering with any motive.

    Here is a story that includes some of his rap lyrics:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/4127569/darrell-brooks-lyrics-waukesha-rapped-terrorists

    One of the songs posted to Brooks’ Soundcloud included the lyrics ‘yeh we terrorists’ and ‘killers in the city’

    ….One of his songs includes the lyrics: “They gonna need a cleaner for the s*** we did, all my killers Gacey where them bodies hid.”

    He’d been doing this for years. Made an anti-Obama rap. An anti-Trump one. An anti-police one.

    One song had lyrics going: “Sliding through the city with no safety on.” He rapped about AK-47s. One had a title: “Gon Kill U”

    The point is, the idea is to get across the idea that he can do things that nobody else can, or get away with them. The worse they are, the bigger they are, sometimes.

    But he, so far, was only a fake killer and it wasn’t working. Maybe he thought if he did somethng like that, he’d be a real life movie anti hero. A modern day 1930s criminal like John Dillinger. Maybe something out something out of Death Race 2000:

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072856

    If that’s the case, he knew right away, after he did it, that things weren’t working out as planned. He cried at his arraignment. (or maybe that was tactical?)

    Except it would be more likely a more recent movie, or a scene in a more recent movie, inspired him.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  169. “Do you think this person should have been released on his other charges without bond? Or do you think he should still be in jail?”

    I answered this upthread. I disagree with cash bail. If a suspect is a danger to the community or a flight risk, they should be held without bail. Otherwise they shouldn’t be held. Based on Brooks’ prior behavior, he was both a flight risk and a danger, so he should have been held.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  170. frosty (f27e97) — 11/24/2021 @ 10:55 am

    Do you think this person should have been released on his other charges without bond?

    He was released on bail, but low bail. The Sun says the last time was on November 19 (another source says November 11th – maybe it was set then) and that that was 3 days before the rampage. (it was two)

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  171. NJRob, thank you for the link. Sorry for mischaracterizing your comment. It wasn’t intentional, just sloppiness on my part.

    I’ll comment further after I’d had some time to read the info you were kind enough to provide. I’m trying to figure out if your characterization is more correct, of if something like Kevin’s @155 is.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  172. @160, that verdict seems correct to me based on what I’ve read about the case. that’s two good rulings this month on high profile cases. Go USA.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  173. The Milwaukee County district attorney was first elected in 2007. His web site claims he was the first of m new trend.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  174. @165 yeah, let’s review

    “the article doesn’t say brooks was diverted

    the quote is indicative of the weight chisholm assigns the safety of the community under his jurisdiction

    brooks was given bail, at $1000, based on a recommendation from the DA”

    The DA’s “wokeness” apparently has nothing to do with how Brooks was treated by the DA’s office.

    yeah, you held that it was just a “mix up” and the DA has nothing to do what happens in the DA’s office, and i’m guessing you still hold to that nonsense

    JF (e1156d)

  175. DA wokeness and it’s impact are a thing

    https://www.kgw.com/article/news/crime/tourist-stabbed-unprovoked-old-town/283-e26dc1a6-0078-44b5-b9bf-b527cac246f4

    Imhoff has a lengthy criminal history, including a pending assault charge in Marion County from 2019. She has been arrested and charged twice in Portland this year for harassment, criminal mistreatment and disorderly conduct. Those charges were dropped in court.

    JF (e1156d)

  176. What’s to “frisk”? He was openly carrying. Police ask for IDs all the time.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/24/2021 @ 10:54 am

    I may be warming up to this idea but you really need to take it to a group with a history of activism in this area.. Here’s what you can try. Go to the next BLM rally and tell everyone that you want the police to take away guns when they see them. Try to work in different variations of the phrase “we shouldn’t allow scary guys to walk around with guns slung over their shoulder”. Work in “these types of people shouldn’t have guns” and maybe discuss what happens if “these people” don’t willingly surrender their guns. Cover that idea that “the police can’t be sued” and don’t forget the “unclear law” thing. I think those last two will be winners with the BLM crowd.

    I’d also recommend you keep an eye out for any black panthers or nation of islam followers at the rally. Try not to put anyone between you and them, especially women or children.

    frosty (f27e97)

  177. “the quote is indicative of the weight chisholm assigns the safety of the community under his jurisdiction”

    Actions speak louder than words.

    “yeah, you held that it was just a “mix up” and the DA has nothing to do what happens in the DA’s office, and i’m guessing you still hold to that nonsense”

    And you’re straight up lying here. There’s no evidence the DA specifically recommended or was even aware of the bail in this case. His office has 125 ADAs. Your “buck stops here” comment conflates responsibility for complicity.

    “Those charges were dropped in court.”

    Why were they dropped? Do only “woke” DAs drop charges.

    “[Walgreens closures]”

    Unsurprising that you believe Walgreens here.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  178. Gutowski at The Dispatch notes the main difference between Rittenhouse’s not guilty verdict and the Bryan-McMichaels guilty verdicts: Provocation.

    McMichael was chasing Arbery down; Rosenbaum was chasing Rittenhouse.

    That makes a world of difference. Legally, you can not initiate a fight and then kill somebody when you’ve lost the upper hand. You can’t be the aggressor and then claim self-defense under most circumstances.

    Self-defense lawyer John Monroe, who practices in both Wisconsin and Georgia, explained why that distinction is so important. He said videos of the Rittenhouse shooting showed Rittenhouse retreating with Rosenbaum in pursuit and turned to face him only after he’d been boxed in by cars.

    “The cases are really very factually different,” Monroe said on The Weekly Reload Podcast. “In the Rittenhouse case, Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing Mr. Rittenhouse on foot and Mr. Rittenhouse ended up being cornered more or less by physical objects so that he essentially ran into a corner, had to turn around, and that’s when Mr. Rosenbaum lunged at him and tried to take his gun.”

    He said the Arbery case was almost the exact opposite. If anything, the video in that case suggests Arbery was the one being cornered and the one who acted in self-defense.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  179. Go to the next BLM rally and tell everyone that you want the police to take away guns when they see them. Try to work in different variations of the phrase “we shouldn’t allow scary guys to walk around with guns slung over their shoulder”.

    Pass, because I try to avoid hypotheticals as much as possible, and I’d rather not speculate. Also, that’s not what happened with Rittenhouse, which was a personal interaction with LE in passing.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  180. @178 And you’re straight up lying here.

    everyone seems to be lying except you, and that usually indicates something

    he’s been the DA since 2007 and somehow he’s working with a team of prosecutors he drew out of a hat

    i’m sure he’s surrounded by a bunch of hardline throw the book at ‘em types cuz he likes a mixed crew

    you’re being ridiculous

    JF (e1156d)

  181. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/24/2021 @ 11:51 am

    This is why you should be carrying the torch on this. That’s an important distinction. These laws won’t change themselves.

    frosty (f27e97)

  182. Thanks, frosty, but I take with a grain of salt what a semi-adversarial pseudonymous commenter tells me what I should be doing with my time.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  183. “everyone seems to be lying except you”

    Well, you are for sure.

    “i’m sure he’s surrounded by a bunch of hardline throw the book at ‘em types cuz he likes a mixed crew”

    His reforms involve non-violent crime. Something you keep lying about. There’s no evidence that his reforms extend to violent criminals like Brooks.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  184. @110. None of them are “journalists” – any more than a town cryer was in the 18th century.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  185. @184 and yet somehow a violent repeat offender gets out on $1,000 bond

    there’s zero evidence this was just a “mix up”

    Something you keep lying about.

    point to where i wrote his f’d up reforms extended to brooks, else own the liar label, you lying liar

    JF (e1156d)

  186. “point to where i wrote his f’d up reforms extended to brooks, else own the liar label, you lying liar”

    here is what you said:

    “the quote is indicative of the weight chisholm assigns the safety of the community under his jurisdiction

    brooks was given bail, at $1000, based on a recommendation from the DA”

    You also linked the article by The Daily Mail, which outright says the bail was based on his reforms.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  187. @187 right, and that doesn’t support your claim

    and, you’re lying about the daily mail article

    quote the passage from the article

    JF (e1156d)

  188. “right, and that doesn’t support your claim”

    Yes it does.

    “quote the passage from the article”

    The article:

    “John Chisholm was elected as Milwaukee County District Attorney in 2007 and he immediately started advocating for lower cash bonds for criminals, like Brooks – a felon with a history of domestic violence charges who was most recently locked up for running over the mother of his children.”

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  189. #179 on provocation.

    Paul, I agree with this person

    “Self-defense lawyer John Monroe, who practices in both Wisconsin and Georgia, explained why that distinction is so important. He said videos of the Rittenhouse shooting showed Rittenhouse retreating with Rosenbaum in pursuit and turned to face him only after he’d been boxed in by cars.

    “The cases are really very factually different,” Monroe said on The Weekly Reload Podcast. “In the Rittenhouse case, Mr. Rosenbaum was chasing Mr. Rittenhouse on foot and Mr. Rittenhouse ended up being cornered more or less by physical objects so that he essentially ran into a corner, had to turn around, and that’s when Mr. Rosenbaum lunged at him and tried to take his gun.”

    Not to mention the last three guys Rittenhouse shot or shot at were attacking him while his butt was on the pavement.

    There is very little that is reasonable about three men chasing down and killing a man they suspected of what boiled down to prowling.

    On the Rittenhouse side, there was very little reasonability to the prosecution claim that Rittenhouse was actually pursuing Rosenbaum, but in case that didn’t stick, the Prosecutor sorta pivoted to Rosenbaum being a gun safety zealot simply looking to raise awareness.
    Instead of wearing Star Trek pins, Binger should have worn a “Lost in Space” tie

    steveg (e81d76)

  190. Time123 (9f42ee) — 11/24/2021 @ 10:58 am

    You’re trying to change from “what misinformation” to “it wasn’t part of a campaign”. I asked you to clarify what you thought the lie was because I expected you to switch gears after I came back with the comments.

    I didn’t call you a liar and I left you room to just admit to mistakes as you’ve done now. You overreacted instead and now you’ve gone from outrage to flippant and patronizing. It looks like you’re also trying to lay the groundwork for an “I’m done with this”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  191. You called my comments “misinformation”. That’s a lie.

    Time123 (0ef19f)

  192. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/24/2021 @ 11:59 am

    There is some wisdom in that.

    frosty (f27e97)

  193. @189 his f’d up reforms referred to by his quote in the article are the diversion programs

    the quote is indicative of his priorities, as i stated

    the passage you quote from the article doesn’t refer to the diversion programs

    it refers to bail amounts, and you know they are not the same thing but you very much need them to be

    JF (dbbb35)

  194. @110. None of them are “journalists” – any more than a town cryer was in the 18th century.
    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 11/24/2021 @ 12:13 pm

    You and I agree. They are newsreaders/town criers.

    felipe (484255)

  195. You called my comments “misinformation”. That’s a lie.

    Time123 (0ef19f) — 11/24/2021 @ 12:47 pm

    On this you are mistaken. For reference

    Misinformation is false, inaccurate, or misleading information. Examples of misinformation are false rumors, gossip, and misleading use of facts. Disinformation is a subset of misinformation that is deliberately deceptive.

    You may be thinking of disinformation. I did not say that, if I did it was a typo and unintentional.

    I provided examples of your comments that included false, inaccurate, or misleading information. I specifically chose that word because I do not claim to know your intent.

    As it is, you had ample opportunity to know some of the things you said were false so I can see how someone might make that claim. But I’m not making it.

    frosty (f27e97)

  196. That’s a lie.

    Time123 (0ef19f) — 11/24/2021 @ 12:47 pm

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    frosty (f27e97)

  197. “the quote is indicative of his priorities, as i stated”

    Yes you keep saying that. It’s bullsh*t.

    “the passage you quote from the article doesn’t refer to the diversion programs

    it refers to bail amounts, and you know they are not the same thing but you very much need them to be”

    The previous paragraph:

    “The district attorney whose office let out Waukesha parade killer Darrell Brooks on a $1,000 bond three weeks ago previously admitted he knew his laxed bail policies would lead to killers being set free and murdering others, saying flippantly in a 2007 interview: ‘You bet, it’s guaranteed to happen.’ ”

    The linked article where they pull the quote from:

    https://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/overdose-death-highlights-deferred-prosecutions-in-milwaukee-county-b99101314z1-224745852.html/?page=1

    You know what word doesn’t appear in that article? “Bail”. The conflation of reduced bail and the diversion program is being made by the Daily Mail. You took that ball and ran with it.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  198. The worst thing that was said about Rittenhouse was that he didn’t stop after firing the first shot at Rosenbaum.

    Rosenbaum went down. The third shot was what killed him. He fired four in all. You can blame the gun manufacturers.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  199. @198 The conflation of reduced bail and the diversion program is being made by the Daily Mail.

    that was 100% on you

    JF (dbbb35)

  200. “that was 100% on you”

    I’ll post it again:

    “The district attorney whose office let out Waukesha parade killer Darrell Brooks on a $1,000 bond three weeks ago previously admitted he knew his LAXED BAIL POLICIES would lead to killers being set free and murdering others, saying flippantly in a 2007 INTERVIEW: ‘You bet, it’s guaranteed to happen.’ ”

    The 2007 interview was about the diversion program.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  201. Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/24/2021 @ 1:13 pm

    I don’t think that was the worst thing said about him. I don’t even think that would be on a top 10 list.

    frosty (f27e97)

  202. chisholm lax bail policies is well documented elsewhere, for example here

    the daily mail article is highlighting the 2007 quote, and if you’re trying to make the case that chisholm’s mindset is isolated only to his diversion program, that’s ridiculously unsupportable but have at it

    JF (e1156d)

  203. “chisholm lax bail policies is well documented elsewhere, for example here”

    Your article links 2 other articles (same publisher) documenting cases with low bail. Here’s what they had to say:

    Cash bail of $500 was set by Court Commissioner Dewey Martin, a former lawyer in the corporation counsel’s office. He’s the same court commissioner we wrote about previously for giving a signature bond to a woman accused of pointing a gun at a Milwaukee police officer.

    —–

    We’ve also learned that Burney was released on a $1,000 signature bond in March 2020 by Milwaukee County Court Commissioner Rosa Barillas. He remained on the street even though those charges were extremely serious: Felon in possession of a firearm as a habitual criminality repeater, and disorderly conduct with use of a dangerous weapon as a habitual criminality repeater and with domestic abuse assessments. The case was charged in March 2020, but it remained pending more than 1 year and 7 months later, with multiple status conferences. We previously reported that the court system has a two-year backlog. We’ve previously written about Barillas and low bail.

    In both cases the authors blame the Court Commissioners for the low bail. Court Commissioners are employees of the courts, not the District Attorney’s office. So, why are they blaming Chisholm in the main article, when his name doesn’t even appear in the source articles?

    “the daily mail article is highlighting the 2007 quote, and if you’re trying to make the case that chisholm’s mindset is isolated only to his diversion program, that’s ridiculously unsupportable but have at it”

    What’s unsupportable is mind reading the intent of the DA and the Daily Mail reporters.

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  204. why are they blaming Chisholm

    it says it in the link:
    “Chisholm’s prosecutors recommend bail, which is ultimately set by judges or court commissioners.”

    you know that chisholm is engaged in an internal review as to why brooks’ bail was set so low, cuz i commented in this thread exactly that

    JF (e1156d)

  205. So then why aren’t they blaming him in the linked articles? How much influence do the court commissioners have over bail amounts?

    Davethulhu (f178d9)

  206. The allegations against Brooks are expanding to include the claim that he sped up and swerved to intentionally hit people, ie that he aimed at people.

    The latest death is of a young boy.

    The evidence on this being a hate crime is growing.

    frosty (1e6b9e)

  207. It’s intentional but maybe not a hate crime. But he posted (using various bylines) a lot of things online ( that spewed hatred and violence over the years.

    https://pressfrom.info/au/news/world/-478259-darrell-brooks-fb-posts-called-for-violence-against-white-people-support-for-hitler.html

    His vileness was very free ranging. If it would strike you as evil or demented, he was for it.

    He had something anti-Semitic that praised Hitler in 2015. It seems to follow the line of the Black Hebrew Israelites.

    He also claimed he was not really a pedophile. Said he’d gotten involved with a “bitch” but didn;t know she was 16 (he started when she was 15) He actually violated court rders to stay away from her.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  208. What we see here is an illustration of the truism that if crimes go unpunished sufficiently they get worse.

    He was only an Internet troll and a one-time sex offender and a menace to people he knew until now. Now he attacked random (white) strangers.

    His ex-girlfriend had earlier told police that he had threatened her life many times and she also now told the New York Post that his mother felt guilty about bailing him out last time.

    he Milwaukee Journal SEntinel says, according to the New York Post that when he assaulted his ex-girlfriend he told police he hadn;t taken his medicine – but that could be a lie.

    One correction maybe to the story; The New York Daily News says that Daniel Rider asked Darrell Brooks to leave when he saw a police car cruising around about ten minutes after he knocked on his door, and did leave (so the police did not arrest him in his home) An Uber showed up about a minute after he left (h must have been afraid RRider might get on to him) and his car was still parked near his driveway.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  209. The whole criminal justice system in Milwaukee is overwhelmed.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  210. 202. frosty (f27e97) — 11/24/2021 @ 1:45 pm

    I don’t think that was the worst thing said about him. I don’t even think that would be on a top 10 list

    I meant the worst thing that might be legitimately said about Rittenhouse.

    It was that he didn’t immediately stop firing after Joseph Rosenbaum went down with the first shot. (a letter in the Wall Street Journal noted that).

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  211. Sammy Finkelman (c49738) — 11/25/2021 @ 8:14 am

    This isn’t even a bad thing to say about him. In a self defense situation there is no reason to stop with one shot and there are multiple reasons not to stop with one.

    I’ll also note that’s it easy to criticize someone else’s shot with time and distance between you. People with more training and experience have exercised less trigger discipline in less stressful situations than KR.

    I’ve no idea who wrote this letter, or what’s in it, but my sense is this comes from someone with a bias.

    frosty (1e6b9e)

  212. He was a thug fleeing another crime scene.

    So you don’t hesitate to jump when it comes to certain positions.

    This was reported by multiple multiple media sources, and the Waukesha police chief stated that Brooks wasn’t being chased, which isn’t a contradiction: A person can still flee a crime scene and not be chased by LEO. This is the latest reporting.

    A law enforcement official confirmed to The Washington Post that Brooks had been fleeing the scene of an alleged fight involving a knife.

    No one has reported your opinion that what Brooks did was terrorism. Maybe it is, maybe not, and maybe that’s your problem. What is not in dispute is his intentionality.

    “My time here has come to an end. I am grateful for you letting me post here despite the controversy I create. But I must move on.”
    –BuDuh, Man of His Word, 11/23/2021

    Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, even Rob and BuDuh.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  213. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/25/2021 @ 9:09 am

    I don’t know the details prior to the mass casualty event but he certainly fled that crime scene.

    The problem is with people misusing terms. The fleeing the scene of a prior event claim creates an impression that he didn’t intend to drive into the parade and that some of the responsibility for this lies with the authorities, and a society riddled with systemic racism, who would make a black man feel like he needed to flee the scene to avoid being killed.

    frosty (1e6b9e)

  214. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, even Rob and BuDuh.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/25/2021 @ 9:09 am

    Yes. Happy TG to all!

    I watched a portion of the Macy’s parade on Youtube and enjoyed the absence of talking heads, commercials, and producers.

    felipe (484255)

  215. felipe (484255) — 11/25/2021 @ 9:28 am

    Some days you eat the bear.

    Happy Thanksgiving

    frosty (1e6b9e)

  216. If I had my “druthers” I would opt for a fixed and immovable camera, to eliminate the camera operator’s decision of what they thought the viewer would find of interest – if that was even a consideration. I was irked by the camera operator’s decision to only briefly show a marching band from Texas, instead zooming past and above to focus on a balloon until the band had passed.

    felipe (484255)

  217. frosty (1e6b9e) — 11/25/2021 @ 9:31 am

    HA! Happy TG to you, too, frosty.

    felipe (484255)

  218. I would assume, from combined dispatches, that, on November 21, Brooks left the previous crime scene after the police were called but before they arrived. His plowing into that crowd was not the result of him trying to escape, and besides he wasn’t trying to avoid hitting people, but just the opposite. He was trying to avoid hitting cars. (just from the video.)

    Re: Daily Mail – they do tell you enough to realize that the claim they make doesn’t add up – a diversion program is not the same as low or no bail.

    The DA was actually first elected in 2006, but the interview was in 2007?

    Sammy Finkelman (21dbe4)

  219. There was something terroristic in Darrell Brooks background before.

    In 2007, he was charged with making bomb threats because he called the Nugget Casino Resort in Sparks, Nevada (near Reno, in Washoe County, where he seems to have spent some time) and said he would “daage and/or destroy the casino/hotel.”

    But that sounds like a personal dispute. Maybe they took his money,

    He was held on $25,000 bail and eventually pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor: conspiracy to disturb the peace, and he was sentenced to six months probation.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  220. The level of bail given to Darrell rooks actually violated the Milwaukee County DA’s policies. In 2012, the courts, the DA’s office and the public defender reached an agreement that was supposed to reduce “unnecessary restrictions on low-level defenders and more accurately identify those who warranted closer supervision.” (NYT)

    Under this, a risk assessment was created that uses various metrics, including age and prior convictions, to create a risk score that is given to the judges or court commissioners, along with recommendations by the DA’s office and defense counsel. That score is supposed to rank the chances that a defendant woll not appear in court or commit a new crime.

    This score is not a matter of public record, but given what is known, several lawyers told the New York Times, Darrell Brooks should have received a score of 6 out of 6 with a propensity for violence noted; and it is known that when he was released he was supposed to receive a Level 5 out of 5 supervision. He was specifically ordered to keep away from the two female witnesses in the case (I think maybe he didn’t because that’s why he left when the police called, and he was virtually certain to be locked up again for some time) and was also prohibited from carrying a firearm (and it seems he did not carry a gun.) Location tracking is not included, but nobody would be monitoring it anyway and he wasn’t restricted to a specific area.

    The Dostrict Attorney, John A. Chisholm, has occasionally asked for high bail, and in fact the median bail in Milwaukee County from 2011 to 2015 was higher than most Wisconsin counties, at $750 (or course many other counties maybe had less serious crimes)

    The average bail (which is affected disproportionately by outliers, like Bill Gates would affect the average wealth of people in a room) was $6,249 and the biggest was $1 million.

    In 2017 he signed a legal brief, along with other DAs across the country, that said that misdemeanor defendants should not be required to pay any bail to stay out of jail – one argument is that in such cases, the risk of recidivism is actually higher (if he takes awhile to or doesn’t meet bail, or maybe after finishing his short sentence) because a defendant’s life may be disrupted, as he may lose his job and/or his home if he stays in jail. But the November 2 charges were not all misdemeanors.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

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