Weekend Open Thread (ADDED @ First News Item)
[guest post by Dana]
Here are a few news items to talk about. Please feel free to share anything that you might think would interest readers. Make sure to include links.
First news item
A restaurant owner who was forced to shut down because of coronavirus restrictions is frustrated after a film crew was able to set up outdoor dining for its workers right across from her restaurant.
Angela Marsden, who owns Pineapple Hill Saloon and Grill, said her anger isn’t toward the movie industry, but because she believes restaurants are being unfairly targeted by Los Angeles County health orders.
“Tell me that this is dangerous but next to me is a slap in my face,” Marsden said. “Everything I own is being taken away from me and they set up a movie company right next to my outdoor patio.”
Under the county’s guidelines, video and music production is deemed essential. Many production crews also test employees frequently, while under the recent Los Angeles County health order, restaurants like Marsden’s were forced to shut down their outdoor dining.
Marsden says she spent close to $80,000 building and making her facility coronavirus compliant, only to be told her doors had to remain shut for in-person dining.
“You can’t eat here, but you can walk in the same parking lot 15 feet and you can eat alfresco on a movie set because I guess COVID doesn’t go there right,” Marsden said.
Watch this video, folks. Sound on. pic.twitter.com/Oo6LMdmE1p
— Klavan Squarebeard, first of his name (@SpencerKlavan) December 4, 2020
ADDED: However, commenter Col. Klink provides us with this critical information missing from both CBS report (they briefly mentioned testing) and the video of the bar owner:
My one Hollywood connection…just happens to be the writer/director…of the production [that] Angela, the restauranter, is talking about. They do PCR every other day, and rapid test twice a day, plus each group of people are in color coded pods with giant ID badges around their necks and don’t interact outside of that pod. If Angela, the restauranter, wants to pay for that for her patrons, she’s free to. It costs the production company $25k a week to do it, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she won’t be doing that for her employees, much less customers.
Second news item
Done:
California certified its presidential election Friday and appointed 55 electors pledged to vote for Democrat Joe Biden, officially handing him the Electoral College majority needed to win the White House.
Secretary of State Alex Padilla’s formal approval of Biden’s win in the state brought his tally of pledged electors so far to 279, according to a tally by The Associated Press. That’s just over the 270 threshold for victory.
Third news item
Where is the united front of Republican and Democratic leaders condemning this?
An Atlanta state senator has asked for police protection after people posting on conservative social media said she should be killed over her participation in hearings on Thursday about unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud pushed by supporters of President Donald Trump.
State Sen. Elena Parent, a Democrat, said she was shaken after being informed that her home address and other personal information had been distributed online and some posted in a social media thread that she should be killed.
A thread on one far-right internet message board posted photos of Parent captured during Thursday’s hearings, misidentified her as an election worker and asked users to vote on what the appropriate form of punishment should be. The most common responses called for sexual violence to be committed against Parent and/or her execution.
Fourth news item
Just 25 congressional Republicans acknowledge Joe Biden’s win over President Trump a month after the former vice president’s clear victory of more than 7 million votes nationally and a convincing electoral-vote margin that exactly matched Trump’s 2016 tally…Two Republicans consider Trump the winner despite all evidence showing otherwise. And another 222 GOP members of the House and Senate — nearly 90 percent of all Republicans serving in Congress — will simply not say who won the election.
President-elect Joe Biden revealed Thursday that “more than several” Republican senators have called to privately congratulate him on his election win, despite the fact that most of them have not publicly acknowledged his victory last month…Biden was asked how he can be optimistic about working with the Senate, which is currently controlled by Republicans. “I say this tactfully,” Biden said. “There have been more than several sitting Republican senators who’ve privately called me and congratulated me.”
Fifth news item
First shipment of vaccine news:
Earlier this week, the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommended that the very first batch of Americans to get vaccinated should be frontline health care workers and residents of long term care facilities such as nursing homes. Together, they add up to about 24 million people.
Federal officials estimate about 40 million vaccines will be available by the end of the month if both Moderna and Pfizer get US Food and Drug Administration authorization — only enough to vaccinate 20 million people, because two doses are needed for each person.
But even that number will fall short. Pfizer is only expected to have 6.4 million doses of vaccine ready by mid-December.
Sixth news item
Can employers require employees to take vaccine?
The news that a coronavirus vaccine could start being distributed within the next few weeks has sent stocks soaring and government officials scrambling to develop plans for the herculean task of distributing it across the country…For employers, many of which have kept workers home for months, it has opened a complex set of legal and practical issues: Can they require employees to take a vaccine? Should they offer incentives instead to encourage compliance? And what should they do if employees resist?
…
The biggest difference between requiring employees to take a vaccine for the coronavirus compared with the flu or other vaccines — which health-care organizations have long required — is that covid-19 vaccines are expected to first be available under an “emergency use authorization” rather than a full FDA licensure, Masling said. “To the best of my knowledge, the issue of whether an employer can require a vaccine that is still under an emergency use authorization hasn’t arose before,” she said, adding the EEOC might be “cautious about the guidance it will issue about a vaccine that has not yet received full approval.”
Seventh news item
President Trump has discussed with advisers whether to grant pre-emptive pardons to his children, to his son-in-law and to his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, and talked with Mr. Giuliani about pardoning him as recently as last week, according to two people briefed on the matter.
Mr. Trump has told others that he is concerned that a Biden Justice Department might seek retribution against the president by targeting the oldest three of his five children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — as well as Ms. Trump’s husband, Jared Kushner, a White House senior adviser.
Donald Trump Jr. had been under investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, for contacts that the younger Mr. Trump had had with Russians offering damaging information on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign, but he was never charged. Mr. Kushner provided false information to federal authorities about his contacts with foreigners for his security clearance, but was given one anyway by the president.
The nature of Mr. Trump’s concern about any potential criminal exposure of Eric Trump or Ivanka Trump is unclear, although an investigation by the Manhattan district attorney into the Trump Organization has expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees by the company, some of which appear to have gone to Ms. Trump.
Eighth news item
More confirmation that we live in really stupid times:
The senior pastor of a church in western Michigan has encouraged his congregation to catch the coronavirus to “get it over with” and calling it “all good.”
“COVID, it’s all good,” Spencer said. “It’s OK. Get it, get it over with, press on.”
The church has been holding services in-person. Some attendees wear masks and social distance. Others don’t, according to the newspaper.
Related: 380,343 virus cases have been confirmed in Michigan, according to the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services. More than 9,500 people have died from the virus.
Ninth news item
The Pentagon said Friday it is pulling most U.S. troops out of Somalia on President Donald Trump’s orders, continuing a post-election push by Mr. Trump to shrink U.S. involvement in counterterrorism missions abroad.
Without providing details, the Pentagon said in a short statement that “a majority” of U.S. troops and assets in Somalia will be withdrawn in early 2021. There are currently about 700 troops in the Horn of Africa nation, training and advising local forces in an extended fight against the extremist group al-Shabab, an affiliate of al-Qaida…
The Pentagon said the drawdown in Somalia does not mark the end of U.S. counterterrorism efforts there.
“As a result of this decision, some forces may be reassigned outside of East Africa,” it said. “However, the remaining forces will be repositioned from Somalia into neighboring countries in order to allow cross-border operations by both U.S. and partner forces to maintain pressure against violent extremist organizations operating in Somalia.”
Tenth news item
You knew at least one of them was going to run for something:
Lara Trump teased a potential Senate run in North Carolina Friday to replace Sen. Richard Burr, who plans to retire in 2022.
“I could think of nothing greater than to represent the people of my home state, represent North Carolina,” she said on Outloud with Gianno Caldwell…
“I started Women for Trump. We had a bus tour that not only went through North Carolina but all over the country,” she said. “I spent a lot of time there, which I love doing – any excuse to go back home.”
Sources close to Lara Trump previously told Fox News that she is “interested and exploring” a run.
Have a good weekend.
–Dana
Good morning.
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 7:21 amThanks for this post, Dana. As a business owner, I became emotional while watching Angela’s video.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/5/2020 @ 7:49 amI can’t imagine being a business owner, felipe, and seeing the rules applied so unevenly right under one’s nose. I would like to know just how frequently said testing is being done by the production company and/or studio?
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:25 amIs the movie set’s canteen open to the general public like Angela’s restaurant, or is it only for co-workers on the movie set who will be interacting with each other all day even more closely than while having lunch?
nk (1d9030) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:26 amGood questions, nk. To me, this boils down to whether it has been proven that outdoor eateries are hotbeds of Covid spread? I found this from a few days ago regarding Los Angeles County:
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:35 amDarn, I just got banned from Powerline. It must’ve been my comment that Hinderaker had a suck-a$$ mentality on masks.
This is what happens when your Big Con gets its day in court, six losses in a single day. It’s what happens when your allegations have no facts but you nevertheless send our your Flying Lawyer-Monkeys to litigate regardless. Trump’s win-loss record is now 1-46.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 9:19 amSaw this on Insta, please read:
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/12/04/why-trumps-america-will-live-on/
Lots to unpack here, but I felt it was very relevant in recent posts on this site.
whembly (c30c83) — 12/5/2020 @ 9:34 amThat used to be one of my daily go-to sites. Not anymore.
From the article about the church in Michigan:
I thought churches generally took the position that truth is not a subjective matter, and that there are consequences for denying it.
Radegunda (b63b53) — 12/5/2020 @ 9:42 amSame.
I suspect he means the government cannot enforce belief in any particular truth.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2020 @ 9:57 amYou are absolutely right, Radegunda. I took “complete right and privilege to believe whatever you want to believe.” To be a reference to free will. We are free to choose wrongly.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:10 amI still read and comment on Powerline, but the ridiculous pro-Trump obsessions of some readers are maddening. It just boggles the mind that every time one of the Powerline commenters says “President-elect Biden” there is the usual gaggle of hysterics insisting that Biden’s election is illegitimate and will be undone in due time. She sheer cultism amongst some commenters there absolutely depresses me.
JVW (ee64e4) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:11 amSo Angela needs to learn some things, this is one of those situations where it’s a good story, but completely outside of what is actually happening, but…cool story bro..
My one Hollywood connection (although I was on TMZ a few years ago with Jessica Simpson) just happens to be the writer/director, and high-school girlfriend (also named Angela), of the production she’s (Angela, the restauranter) talking about. They do PCR every other day, and rapid test twice a day, plus each group of people are in color coded pods with giant ID badges around their necks and don’t interact outside of that pod. If Angela, the restauranter, wants to pay for that for her patrons, she’s free to. It costs the production company $25k a week to do it, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that she won’t be doing that for her employees, much less customers.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:22 amI read the Spiked piece and I think Kotkin gives Trump way more credit than deserved.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:32 amThe only thing Trump has been right about on China was to be more confrontational with them. His prescriptions–which were basically tariffs, followed up by more tariffs–were stupid and they cost American taxpayers more than the Chinese Communist Party and Chinese businesses. Trump’s silence on the Uighers and Hong Kong is an embarrassment.
The only good thing he did on trade was make modest improvements to NAFTA. His bailing on TPP was stupid.
On foreign policy, his best achievement was moving US Embassy to Jerusalem. Everything else has been half-baked to unbaked.
He gets some credit on deregulation.
He gets mostly full credit on judges, thanks to his faithfully working off the Federalist Society and to McConnell for confirming them.
His immigration policy was polarizing and accomplished little.
His dealing with the Covid is a near complete disaster. Any other president would have fast-tracked a vaccine, and any other president would have taken the virus seriously. Kotkin spent not one word on the subject, which was not intellectually honest on his part.
Trump claimed to be for the middle class, yet his tax cuts mostly benefited the upper income brackets and would add $1.9 trillion to our debt. He presided over a good economy that he inherited from Obama. The last three years of Obama’s economy was scarcely different from Trump’s first three years, except Trump added $300-plus billion per year more in debt. Of course, Trump took all the credit for it.
To me, there is little in Trump’s legacy to hold onto.
America would be better served the more that Americans know that Trump is a fraud. His deep state rhetoric is a fraud. Most of his factless statements are a fraud. His incessant claims that he won is a fraud.
His complete absence of character is a stain on the GOP and on America. The sooner my party jettisons this unfit buffoon, the better we’re all off.
I was a little surprised that Powerline tolerated no dissent. Sadly, they’re just a right-wing echo chamber, like RedState, which also banned me.
To extend my above comments on China, this story is disturbing. If I were Biden, I’d ban all STEM students who originate from mainland China and make up the difference by welcoming students from the other Asian countries.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:41 amI was a little surprised that Powerline tolerated no dissent. Sadly, they’re just a right-wing echo chamber, like RedState, which also banned me.
To be fair to them, Paul Montagu, if you did indeed refer to Hinderacker as having a “a suck-a$$ mentality” on masks, then you ran afoul of their prohibition on swearing. I know it seems a bit blue-nosed, especially from a potty-mouth like me, but they are quite strict on enforcing that rule. I believe even some of their obnoxious Trumpists have been 86’ed on that same rule.
JVW (ee64e4) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:48 amOn foreign policy, his best achievement was moving US Embassy to Jerusalem. Everything else has been half-baked to unbaked.
You don’t think the peace agreements between the Arab states and Israel have been significant? Do you think it’s a mistake to attempt to isolate Iran in that region, or do you object to Israel establishing relations with despotic states? If it is the latter, then should the U.S. also break off diplomatic relations with Qatar, the UAE, and the like?
JVW (ee64e4) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:51 amFelipe, maybe you’re right in framing it as a free-will issue. (Or maybe it’s a case of the pastor saying he won’t act as a political enforcer, as Dave suggests.) But here the pastor seems to imply that there are no serious consequences for self or others in believing and acting upon a false proposition — and that a clergyman has no business trying to guide his flock toward the most salubrious and charitable behavior. In any case, Believe whatever you want to sounds odd coming from a pastor.
Radegunda (b63b53) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:57 amI’ll give Kotkin some indulgence for not mentioning Covid, since the theme of his article is what parts of the Trumpist agenda might be worth holding on to. But I don’t excuse the Trump defenders who take the view that Covid is something bad that happened to Trump, and that it should be left out of a fair evaluation of his presidency.
Presidents are elected not just to implement an agenda they already have in hand, but to respond to unforeseen events. And that’s one reason that character and temperament really do matter.
Radegunda (b63b53) — 12/5/2020 @ 11:11 amYou’re probably right, JVW, but I’m not sure I’d last much longer there had I said “suck-anus mentality”.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 11:17 amI do, and that flowed from him moving the embassy to Jerusalem, as I understand it. I do agree with Trump taking a harder line on the Palestinians. Their heels weren’t just dug in, they were encased in concrete.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 11:24 amOn Iran, it was a mistake for Trump to bail on the deal, IMO, as they were in compliance, so it’s as if the real reason for exiting was to poke Obama in the eye. There was nothing wrong with staying in the deal and sanctioning them and responding more forcefully to their belligerence and bad faith. Our betrayal of the Kurds only helped the Iranian regime by strengthening Assad’s and Putin’s standing.
A thread on one far-right internet message board posted photos of Parent captured during Thursday’s hearings, misidentified her as an election worker and asked users to vote on what the appropriate form of punishment should be. The most common responses called for sexual violence to be committed against Parent and/or her execution.
Seditious conspiracy.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/5/2020 @ 11:32 am@6
Your own fault. At the top of the comment section is this :
Notice
Marci (405d43) — 12/5/2020 @ 11:35 amCommenters who employ what we deem extreme vulgarity in a comment — “s***,” “f***,” “a*******,” or one of their many variants — will be banned without further notice.
Bank workers could get COVID vaccines before most Americans
……..
Tellers and other consumer-facing bank workers could jump ahead of most Americans for coronavirus inoculations, after vaccines receive widely anticipated emergency-use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration, potentially putting those financial-industry workers in line ahead of those 65 and older, other adults with medical issues and the rest of the U.S. population.
The American Bankers Association, which represents community banks, said it has asked the CDC to designate a narrow slice of the financial-services industry as “essential workers,” mainly adhering to guidelines issued by the Department of Homeland Security.
The ABA said it is specifically asking for vaccine prioritization of bank tellers and employees of rural banking branches.
……..
The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, or ACIP, an independent panel made up of health experts, recommended to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Tuesday that vaccines should first go to frontline health-care workers and residents in nursing homes and assisted-living facilities.
But after them, essential workers, a category that could include those working in parts of the financial-services business, are recommended to stand second in line, ahead of those age 65 and older and adults with medical issues that could lead to severe illness should they contract COVID-19.
The ACIP didn’t list the occupations of those who might fall in the category of essential workers, but DHS defines essential workers as those who conduct a range of operations and services that are typically essential to continue critical infrastructure operations, and have in the past included firefighters, teachers and grocery workers.
Yet beyond those essential workers, guidance from the DHS’s Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency indicates that people working in financial services should be included in this category.
……
Based on New York Times COVID Vaccine Line Calculator, my place in line in California is behind health care workers, essential workers, the elderly, the homeless, prisoners, young adults, children, and 8.2M “others”.
I’ll be in line behind:
I’ll be dead of old age by then.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:02 pmI’ve updated the first news item with Klink’s comment at 12, lightly edited.
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:05 pmYou don’t think the peace agreements between the Arab states and Israel have been significant?……[S]hould the U.S. also break off diplomatic relations with Qatar, the UAE, and the like?
No. Bahrain and Qatar aren’t front line states, they never directly fought Israel, and they have little political influence in the region. If the states were Saudi Arabia or Syria that would be something. We’ll see how Israel and the UAE are getting along in ten years.
And no, the US should not break relations with the Gulf States, as we have major trade, military, and political interests in the region. America doesn’t have friends, it has interests.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:17 pmNo. Bahrain and Qatar aren’t front line states, they never directly fought Israel, and they have little political influence in the region.
They are states which share the Persian Gulf with Iran. How is this any different from the Iranian standpoint than having Cuba or Nicaragua aligned with the Soviet Union in the 1980s was from the U.S. standpoint? Possibly because the Arab states aren’t yet belligerents perhaps, but that’s about all.
JVW (ee64e4) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:41 pmI don’t care if they give 100 tests every day. We are citizens. Hollywood money doesn’t get you special privileges that don’t belong to the plebes.
NJRob (2203b5) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:48 pm(The concept of free-will is not absolute in the modern Evangelical Christian churches. Just want to point that out, but it’s a thread I have no interest in pulling at here.)
The thing that irritates me about the pastor in question and other “Christians” making claims/directives like that (and telling people not to wear a mask because *they* think they’re pointless) is that it is very un-Christlike and hypocritical. If we are to love our neighbors, we are to care for those around us. Because the pastor was fine when he had Covid, doesn’t mean that anyone else will be. It’s utterly arrogant to make such a judgment and tell people just to get it, it’s no big deal, when, for all he knows, they might end up on a ventilator or even dead. That is not loving his neighbor (or flock). That is un-Christlike arrogance making a judgment call for people he is supposed to lead. Further, telling others not to wear a mask (as many Christians do), reeks of the same hypocrisy and arrogance. Unless that person is well-acquainted with their neighbor’s medical history and comorbidities, it’s unconscionable to be making such a suggestion. Coming from a position of leadership in the church and making the suggestion is beyond the pale. That is not loving one’s neighbor. That is not showing compassion to, or putting the needs of others before your own. That is just wanting people to believe the way you do based on nothing but, Hey, I had covid, and it was no big deal arrogance. It is the antithesis of humility before God and the flock. This is not to even mention the ignorance of the science involved…
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:49 pmIs that (rapid testing) a written standard that, if met by any eatery in the county, they can continue to remain open?
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:53 pmThen again, Lord Garcetti is the same royal who just said his subjects cannot engage in “non-essential ” walking.
NJRob (2203b5) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:03 pmNo it isn’t Dana. They shut down all restaurants period.
NJRob (2203b5) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:03 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/12/suicide-of-a-city.php
The madness of a leftist dominated government. If they just legalize crime, then you won’t have any crime.
NJRob (2203b5) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:05 pmSo there is this from the LA County Health Dept’s Reopening Protocol for Music, Television and Film Production: Appendix J:
And this:
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:37 pmRight, Tesla was open, law firms were open, electronics manufacturers were open…tv production was also open, because different businesses are different.
One thing is not another thing, a Hallmark TV movie production is not a restaurant. I’m sure she looks out the door and is ticked off, I would be personally disappointed, but I recognize my cheeseburger is not your Buick.
Her complaint was prior to LA’s shutdown of pretty much all businesses for in person activity, which is now in effect and that isn’t just for restaurants and bars, tv production is too. Tesla is still open, why’s that? They’re not testing, they are in a congregate setting, if anything tv production should be open, and Tesla should be closed.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:38 pmKicked off Powerline? Consider Daily Kos where they have an article commenting on a recent story about Trump asking the Georgia governor to invalidate the election, call a special session of the legislature and simply award him the electoral votes.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/12/5/2000131/-Trump-calls-on-Georgia-gov-to-hold-a-special-session-and-disenfranchise-every-voter-in-the-state
In some other year, perhaps in some other country, this might be seen as a scandal, and those who support Trump a little tainted. But we live in the U.S. and so it’s just another Saturday.
Victor (4959fb) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:38 pmI was kicked off Daily Kos, too, Victor. And Little Green Footballs. Funny, but I’m not that uncivil, especially with those who are civil with me.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:53 pmIt is Bizarro TrumpWorld, where somehow it’s okay for Trump to politically pressure other Republicans to thwart the will of the people.
Thanks for the post. The only good news item from Trump during his four years is his attempts to draw down the US military in foreign engagements. Good to see we are bringing soldiers home from Somalia. While training local authorities is important, it is really a job the UN should do.
Drawing down more troops from unwinnable theaters like Iraq and Afghanistan is a good move. Hope to see Biden continue the trend, but probably won’t happen.
Hoi Polloi (3bc019) — 12/5/2020 @ 3:31 pmGood to see we are bringing soldiers home from Somalia.
Don’t get your hopes up:
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/5/2020 @ 3:42 pmThey are states which share the Persian Gulf with Iran. How is this any different from the Iranian standpoint than having Cuba or Nicaragua aligned with the Soviet Union in the 1980s was from the U.S. standpoint?
Bahrain and Qatar are already US allies, and diplomatic and trade agreements with Israel have no impact whatsoever on Iran. As Arab countries, they are already hostile to Iran. The only reason Iran hasn’t attacked any of the Persian Gulf countries is the fact that the U. S. Fifth Fleet is headquartered in Bahrain.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/5/2020 @ 4:40 pmTrump at his Georgia rally now:
SMH.
And he went there:
This thread covering the rally is pretty wild.
Dana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 6:09 pmWas there ever any real hope that it was not going to be all about Shortfinger?
Not that I mind. I don’t want either Perdue or Loeffler passing laws for me any more than I want Tiny Donnie signing them, and I don’t know why any Republican in Georgia would want to dignify this rigged election by voting for them.
nk (1d9030) — 12/5/2020 @ 6:50 pm“This thread covering the rally is pretty wild.”
Davethulhu (496a10) — 12/5/2020 @ 7:16 pmAnd now for something
nk (1d9030) — 12/5/2020 @ 7:28 pmcompletelypossibly different: Do not let moose lick your car!PCR is a scam.
Gryph (f63000) — 12/5/2020 @ 7:56 pmUnnamed Pentagon officials blast use of anonymous sources
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/5/2020 @ 7:59 pmTrump asked for this, he’s getting it, and it’s being normalized. Once opened, Overton Windows are notoriously hard to close. It never occurred to me to wonder whether one day a president would make it his public mission to undermine the bedrock pillar of our constitutional republic. That so many officials from the party of Lincoln would answer his anti-democratic call to arms… I have no words.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:03 pmHere’s the deal: It takes a majority of both the House and the Senate to reject a slate of Electors. The House belongs to the Democrats and, even if Perdue and Loeffler are reelected, there will not be 51 Republicans voting to reject the slate in the Senate.
nk (1d9030) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:10 pmWhat will it take before the young folks, the maskless, and the self-absorbed (birm) stop killing people?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:16 pmYou know, someone, somewhere, is going to see a spouse, a parent, a brother or sister die because the hospitals are all full, and decide to go home and get their gun. Sadly, they’ll probably take it out on the hospital folks rather than the super-spreaders.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:19 pm@46: Charge it as sedition on Jan 21st.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:21 pm47. I know it will fail. It’s normalizing the attempt that concerns me. What happens next time? The time after that? Treating foundational norms as disposable incidentals is a dangerous game.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:56 pm50. I hope not. Encouraging sedition isn’t sedition.
It may be that the only defense against losing something as precious and irreplaceable as democracy is the common understanding that it’s precious and irreplaceable, and it shouldn’t be screwed around with. I don’t know if it’s possible to stop a critical mass of committed bomb throwers from blowing the whole thing up.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/5/2020 @ 9:10 pmThey’re small people. Looking ahead to the next election and hoping the Trumpkins will not primary them. There is no Republican Party. Just a bunch of penny-ante grifters using it as a label while scrabbling to hold on to their chintzy jobs.
nk (1d9030) — 12/5/2020 @ 9:56 pmTim Miller saw Trump’s speech on NTD News, which stands for New Tang Dynasty and is run by Falun Gong, and RSBN, Right Side Broadcasting Network. His post-speech reaction…
Maybe we’re all just used to Trump’s outrageousness, but it is outrageous that he’s trying to steal an election while bogusly asserting it was stolen from him.
Paul Montagu (360877) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:39 pmhttps://thebulwark.com/the-devil-went-down-to-georgia/
Paul Montagu (360877) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:40 pmTrump is a failed politician.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/opinions/trump-myth-political-genius-harrow/index.html
He’s also a failed businessman, as evidenced by multiple bankruptcies and thousands of lawsuits against him.
The more the Grotesquely Obsequious Party supports, defends, excuses, or remains silent on his execrable assault on American democracy, the more votes they lose. As noted in the article linked above, more Republicans voted for Biden but voted for Republican representatives and senators, governors. This is a party in disarray. They can win the down-ballot vote, but not the top-ballot vote.
Because of Trump. Traditional conservatives, classical liberals, ask for limited federal government, lower taxes, reduced spending and fiscal responsibility. But we get the opposite.
https://reason.com/2020/10/11/debt-reckoning-2/
The Republican party has bankrupted itself. It no longer stands for principles, only subservience, enthrallment, to Trump.
I find that disgusting.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:32 amDana (cc9481) — 12/5/2020 @ 12:49 pm
I agree, Dana. Your points are well taken.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/6/2020 @ 7:33 am@46: Trump asked for this, he’s getting it, and it’s being normalized. Once opened, Overton Windows are notoriously hard to close.
Having normalized incessant lawfare, campaign surveillance, bogus evidence in FISA court, fake whistleblowers coordinating with Dem hack pols, leaking classified info to jumpstart a closed investigation, applying a defibrillator to the Logan Act, “no serious prosecutor would bring such a case”, a special counsel based on bogus collusion conspiracy theories — all because you didn’t like the result of the last election — the draft from that gaping window suddenly isn’t to your liking.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:09 amNJRob (2203b5) — 12/5/2020 @ 1:05 pm
Thank you for that link, NJRob. The first thing that came to mind was the parable of the prodigal son. Particularly the reaction from the obedient son; incredulity and jealousy. Of course the Parable is about sin, repentance forgiveness and mercy. In that order. How does a Christian apply those principles to the criminal poor? Easy, read the bible. Just remember that Jesus, Himself, said that we will always have the poor with us.
But the question at hand is “How does a city deal, justly, with the criminal poor?” One can evoke the unjust treatment of Jean Valjean in Victor Hugo’s Les Misérables. One can contrast that injustice with the merciful treatment of Valjean by the good Bishop, who seems to skip repentance and forgiveness and jumped straight to mercy. Which is what the City Council wished to do before tabling their effort. But is it just?
Without repentance, justice takes a backseat to leniency and mercy is mocked. Lenience never results in a cry for mercy.
This is just off the top of my head – I haven’t really given it any serious thought.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:10 ambeer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:09 am
Ouch! You have a great point there. These things are not happening in a vacuum.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:14 amLet me criticize myself; There is no connection made between poverty and criminality in Scripture. Rich and poor, alike, are sinners. The commandments make no mention of the poor.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:25 amThere’s lots of things wrong with the world, and Trump is one of them.
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:33 amTo those who may be concerned about a vaccine having been derived from fetal tissue/research:
My Pastor announced, today, that Catholics are urged to avoid Astra-Zeneca’s vaccine due to this issue, and where given a choice, to choose either Pfizer’s vaccine or Moderna’s vaccine. There is confusion among secular sources about this – as is always the case – so I never give them any consideration. But here is one example.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:36 amnk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:33 am
You are being generous, I would have said “two things.” His alias being another.
felipe (630e0b) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:38 amLong a Holdout From Covid-19 Restrictions, Sweden Ends Its Pandemic Experiment
……….
Like other Europeans, Swedes are now heading into the winter facing restrictions ranging from a ban on large gatherings to curbs on alcohol sales and school closures—all aimed at preventing the country’s health system from being swamped by patients and capping what is already among the highest per capita death tolls in the world.
……..
As late as last month, Swedes enjoyed mass sporting and cultural events and health-care officials insisted that the voluntary measures were enough to spare the country the resurgence in infections that was sweeping Europe.
Weeks later, with total Covid-19-related deaths reaching almost 700 per million inhabitants, infections growing exponentially and hospital wards filling up, the government made a U-turn.
In an emotional televised address on Nov. 22, Prime Minister Stefan Löfven pleaded with Swedes to cancel all nonessential meetings and announced a ban on gatherings of more than eight people, which triggered the closure of cinemas and other entertainment venues. Starting Monday, high schools will be closed.
……..
Last week Sweden’s total coronavirus death count crossed 7,000. Neighboring Denmark, Finland and Norway, all similar-sized countries, have recorded since the start of the pandemic 878, 415 and 354 deaths respectively. For the first time since World War II, Sweden’s neighbors have closed their borders with the country.
……….
In recent months, (Dr. Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist) predicted that Swedes would gradually build immunity to the virus through controlled exposure, that vaccines would take longer than expected to develop, and that death rates across the West would converge.
Instead, the West’s first coronavirus vaccine was authorized in Britain last week, Sweden’s death rate remains an outlier among its neighbors, and Dr. Tegnell acknowledged in late November that the new surge in infections showed there was “no sign” of herd immunity in the country.
Meanwhile, Sweden’s laissez-faire pandemic strategy has failed to deliver the economic benefits its proponents had predicted. In the first half of the year, Sweden’s gross domestic product fell by 8.5% and unemployment is projected to rise to nearly 10% in the beginning of 2021, according to the central bank and several economic institutes.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:58 am……..
“Countries that had mandatory restrictions have done better than us,” (said Lars Calmfors, an economist and member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences.)
………..
Trumpkin Mentality:
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:01 amAmerica is walking down the street when a mugger knocks her down and runs off with her purse. That gives Trump a license to come along and run off with her shoes too.
L.A. looking at layoffs for as many as 1,900 workers, including 951 police officers
……..
City Administrative Officer Rich Llewellyn advised Mayor Eric Garcetti and members of the City Council to lay plans for deep reductions at the Los Angeles Police Department, cutting the number of rank-and-file officers by roughly 10% while also eliminating 728 civilian jobs within the department.
If city leaders move ahead with such reductions, the LAPD could be left with fewer officers than at any point in 25 years.
In his 144-page report, Llewellyn said the cuts are needed to close a budget gap that’s expected to reach $675 million by June 30 — a crisis triggered by coronavirus-related shutdowns that have resulted in lower than expected taxes, fees and other revenue. Because the fiscal year is nearly half over, Garcetti and the council have less time to eliminate the gap, leaving them with far more aggressive cost-cutting proposals than in previous months.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:17 am……..
…….. The report also recommends the elimination of positions at other agencies, including 143 in the city attorney’s office, 45 at animal services and 27 in the Bureau of Engineering.
……..
……..[The] budget proposal is viewed by some at City Hall as an attempt to wring concessions from the Los Angeles Police Protective League, the rank-and-file police officers union. Officers are due to receive a 3.25% raise next month, followed by an additional 3% in 2022, and so far the union has shown no interest in forfeiting those increases.
……..
The LAPD’s budget is $3B a year, and if you need to cut costs you after the biggest budget. Also, while the LAPD’s budget represents less 30% of the city’s total budget, it consumes more than 50% of the city’s unrestricted budget, and nearly 25% of police spending goes pensions.
A short note on Klink’s spelling: It’s restauranteur. I only bring it up with the best of intentions, for the site’s betterment.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:36 amhttps://www.lexico.com/en/definition/restauranter
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/restauranter
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/restauranter
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 10:10 amI’ve heard it both ways.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 12/6/2020 @ 10:11 amHeh, okay, and brilliant answer, Klink, using one of my favorite shows.
Paul Montagu (360877) — 12/6/2020 @ 10:39 amWhen I used “er” instead “eur” at my firm, our editor nailed me on it, and she’s a taskmaster editor, but I’m backing away graciously.
@58 –In 2016, Trump accused Cruz of cheating in primaries, and then he said that his acceptance of the general election results would depend on what the results were. He also claimed that the Emmy Awards had been rigged against him.
Before this year’s election he said that if he lost it had to mean that Dems cheated, and he repeatedly declined to commit to accepting the results unless he liked the results.
That attitude is not something Dems caused by being mean to him. It is the essence of Trump to believe that he should always be the winner and be glorified above all others, and otherwise a grievous injustice is being done to him.
The push-back that Trump has gotten did not arise in a vacuum. It is not unrelated to things he has done, as he and his defenders like to believe. There are reasons for it.
Radegunda (b63b53) — 12/6/2020 @ 10:40 am@72 Can’t we all just throw up our hands and claim “A plague o’ both your houses!“????
whembly (c30c83) — 12/6/2020 @ 10:49 amRIP David Lander (73).
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:05 amDonald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
6m
.
@FoxNews daytime is not watchable. In a class with CNN & MSDNC. Check out @OANN, @newsmax and others that are picking up the slack. Even a boring football game, kneeling and all, is better!
The thread is hilarious.
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:06 amPaul,
I was kicked off The American Conservative for suggesting to Dreher that “soft totalitarianism” had some resemblance to orthodox religion, and kicked off National Review for suggesting that Chief of Staff John Kelly was lying about something. I can’t even remember what now. It’s a cruel world of narrow opinions. I don’t actually comment much on DKos because their commenters are not usually very bright, but I do find the articles useful for highlighting some of the various crimes and misdemeanors committed by our Republican political leaders. We all look for evidence where we want to find it.
Victor (4959fb) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:13 amhttps://nypost.com/2020/12/05/these-nyc-first-responders-fear-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/
Perfectly logical though others will call it selfish.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:26 am@77-
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:55 amEmployees should be able to refuse any vaccine, just as any employer can refuse to employ them.
@77-
My favorite quote:
.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 12:03 pmLos Angeles Mayor Garcetti commented about the plight of the bar owner in Item #1:
The fact that Los Angeles deemed the movie industry workers as essential will allow them to continue serving food in location canteens, as long as they follow the stated guidelines. However, there are limits to what people are willing to put with:
Dana (cc9481) — 12/6/2020 @ 12:12 pmAccording to Trump, Rudy Giuliani has tested positive:
This despite taking the touted-by-Trump hydroxychloroquine as a strategy in fending off a COVID-19 infection…
Dana (cc9481) — 12/6/2020 @ 12:33 pmGiuliani has tested positive for the coronavirus, Trump says.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 12:45 pmWhat a surprise. NOT!
Need a headache? Try the following link. https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-georgia-rally-transcript-before-senate-runoff-elections-december-5
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/6/2020 @ 1:09 pmLet’s hope that Giuliani’s flatulence isn’t a superspreader event.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/6/2020 @ 1:13 pmThe film crew had all been tested for coronavirus, and were the same people. But the same people is worse! There;s a prison in Alaska that reached about 50% of inmates infected. Of course that was indoors, breathing the air exhaled by others.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 1:19 pm1.7% of all people diagnosed with COVID-19 have died within 22 days of diagnosis. Of course there’s no excuse for anybody to die. Just give them the Regerneron antibodies. (if you can get it) But then they won’t have strong immunity.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 1:22 pmFarts and prayers for Rudy’s quick, compete recovery from CV19. Rudy’s reaction upon hearing the news: “Pull my finger.”
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/6/2020 @ 2:16 pmDeath Came for the Dakotas
…….
……. Deep into the coronavirus pandemic, when there was no doubt about the damage that Covid-19 could do, the Dakotas scaled their morbid heights, propelled by denial and defiance. They surged to the top of national rankings of state residents per capita who were hospitalized with Covid-related symptoms or whose recent deaths were linked to it.
As of Friday afternoon, South Dakota led the country in the average daily number of recent Covid-associated deaths per capita, with three for every 100,000 people, according to a New York Times database. North Dakota was second, with 1.5.
More than 40 percent of South Dakota’s 1,033 Covid-related deaths to that point occurred in November, according to statistics from the Covid Tracking Project, and the same was true of North Dakota’s 983 deaths.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 3:04 pm……..
…….. Of the 10 counties in America with the most Covid-related deaths per capita, three are in South Dakota.
……..
The truth is that the Dakotas are as emblematic as they are exceptional, the American story — or at least a strain of it — in miniature. In resisting the lockdowns, slowdowns and sacrifices that many other states committed to, they indulged and encouraged a selective (and often warped) reading of scientific evidence, a rebellion against experts and a twisted concept of individual liberty that was obvious all over the country and contributed mightily to our suffering.
……..
Biden Picks (California AG) Xavier Becerra to Lead Health and Human Services
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 3:07 pmRIP Pamela Tiffin (78).
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 3:20 pm56.Trump is a failed politician.
Actually, he is not. He won and beat out seasoned candidates who were experienced politicians. This isn’t just a ‘talking point.’ Did a thesis years ago which touched on this. Hard data on it. Long research project involving the ‘initial elected office’ of candidates for public office at all levels from various vocations, trades and professions over the 200-plus year history of the Republic. It may seem boring and it was tedious to research over many months but the results and trends emerging were fascinating. The leading categories- Business/corporate types [aka authoritarian] vs., lawyers; rule-of-law-types were the primary conflicting trenders in the 20th century. Granted unknown variables in extrapolating the data, such as changes in campaign finance laws, changes in the media platforms, the rise in campaign costs and external events were unpredictable and so on, but w/respect to a ‘Trump’ type; to cut to the chase, the graphed data indicated a decline in IEO winners w/legal backgrounds while IEO candidates winning w/business backgrounds/experience were on the rise. The data trends showed the graphs eventually crossing and one of the major political parties would nominate a winning candidate with no previous elected office experience to the top job as their initial elected office by 2000. Trump won in November, 2016.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/6/2020 @ 3:43 pmBreaking (about 3:36 pm EST)
Rudy Giuliani tested positive for coronavirus. No word on what kind of a case, if any, he has. Donald Trump tweeted out the information as if he was not the one to break it.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 3:50 pmDCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/6/2020 @ 3:43 pm
That actually already happened back in 1928. (Herbert Hoover had held Cabinet (Secretary of Commerce) and various official or semi-official positins before (Belgian relief in 1914, the U.S. Food Administration -> American Relief Administration under President Woodrow Wilson, which he privatized and turned into a charity – it was at that time he started the institution that bears his name at Stanford University; adviser to President Wilson at the Paris Peace conference in 1919; and famine relief in Russia under Lenin’s rule) but he had never held elective office, although FDR among others tried to recruit him for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1920 and he sought the Republican presidential nomination at the Republican convention in 1920)
There were some generals, also but Hoover had started out as a businessman.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:06 pmKlink makes a good point. Having lived in the area (my block was (too) frequently used for background filming) the production companies are amazing. They have a well-oiled crews being paid about 4 times what they’d make anywhere else, doing EXACTLY what they are told ON-TIME and IN-PLACE. They all like their jobs too much to be even a minute late with that potted plant the director wants at 11:43.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:15 pm….56.Trump is a failed politician.
Actually, he is not. He won and beat out seasoned candidates who were experienced politicians.
What he is a failed executive, unable to run the biggest corporation on Earth half as well as Jimmy Carter.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:18 pmBiden Picks (California AG) Xavier Becerra to Lead Health and Human Services
Not his fist choice by any means.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:19 pmL.A. looking at layoffs for as many as 1,900 workers, including 951 police officers
I am willing to bet huge amounts that not one job at LADWP is cut, and bonuses will roll out at usual.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:27 pm47. nk (1d9030) — 12/5/2020 @ 8:10 pm
They have an answer for that, at least as far as the House is concerned
The House of Representatives should vote by states, just like they do in the contingent election!
Of course there’s no reason to suppose that that method of voting applies anywhere else.
Another thing that’s happening is that Trump is calling up individual members of the state legislature of Georgia and asking them to vote (if they get the chance) to appoint the Electors, and some of therm, maybe flattered by the attention, are saying they would do it and Trump is citing them in his lobbying of the Governor or something like that. (The Governor, by the way, just lost a friend of the family in a car accident – a 20 year old with a family background in politics who was apparently dating his 19-year old daughter, so he must be somewhat somber. He didn’t attend the rally last night.)
They are saying that Trump feels that if he can’t win, he still wants to bring the total of Electoral votes that Joe Biden got below the the number of Electoral votes that he got in 2016 – that is, below 306 (before faithless electors)
Nothing will happen with any of this, given the current crop of Republican officials, but this could be a problem in future elections if this whole thing doesn’t end.
Georgia Election Official Gabriel (Gabe) Sterling says these election fraud claims are a (game of) whack-a=mole – in other words, they’re coming up with all sorts of different ways the election could have been stolen and all kinds of different “proofs” (knock one down and they come up with another idea.)
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:32 pm13. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/5/2020 @ 10:32 am
I don’t think so. It was controversial. Now some other presidents could have done better than Trump. ANd Trump didn;t give nearly enough attention to the antibodies.
That’s true.
Kotkin spent not one word on the subject, which was not intellectually honest on his part.
Trump claimed to be for the middle class, yet his tax cuts mostly benefited the upper income brackets and would add $1.9 trillion to our debt. He presided over a good economy that he inherited from Obama. The last three years of Obama’s economy was scarcely different from Trump’s first three years, except Trump added $300-plus billion per year more in debt. Of course, Trump took all the credit for it.
But what’s going to break the ice?
Only maybe him getting more ridiculous. But then he’ll pull back.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 4:49 pmSammy, Why do you say fast tracking the vaccine was controversial? It seems like a lay up for either party.
Time123 (dba73f) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:00 pm@92. No, Hoover didn’t fit the model we had, Sammy; Wilkie didn’t either; nor Perot; but the trend was evident. Bloomberg, for example. I’d have to go back and review the criteria as it has been decades since reading through it but the review board agreed w/t data and analysis but the debate came over the emerging trends. The numbers showed the trend was viable but the debate came over a private sector corporatist- an autocrat w/authoritarian management skills- successfully transferring them to the top spot to govern w/corporate efficiency; ‘the he says jump and everyone says how high’ factor. The fit would be hard for someone w/no experience given how our government is structured. Particularly over issues of speed and cost. FWIW, the catalyst was the Heinz candidacy and win replacing Hugh Scott’s seat. Heinz was heir to the ketchup and pickle fortune; set for life. He had zero political office experience and more influential on the outside as a titan of business than as an insider– every reason not to get into it. Yet he did- and spent roughly $20-25/vote, in 1976 dollars, which was an astronomical cost at the time for a senate seat. We wondered why he did it; why the costs were soaring and so forth. Was he bored? Power hungry? Hence, the project began. It took nearly 18 months to complete. But the trends were undeniable.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:10 pmTime123 (dba73f) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:00 pm
maybe not fast tracking research, but fast tracking approval.
Just look at this:
ttps://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-officials-say-vaccine-decisions-will-be-guided-by-science-not-politics-11599762805
You know something? That actually seems to be true.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/14/countdown-to-a-coronavirus-vaccine
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:23 pm@95. Well, see #92; that variable came up in the discussion we had of the data and trends. My argument at the time was a strict corporatist – say a Jack Welch type– would have a hard time transferring his methds to the top spot as CIC. While Bloomberg managed as mayor of NYC, arguably a difficult job in the realm of CIC, yet still faced friction — and flopped as a CIC candidate, but his previous experience would have disqualified him as a data point anyway. I fully expect another corporatist to make a run for the top spot w/no previous initial elected office experience within the next few cycles. Job performance aside, Trump broke the barrier. It’s really fascinating because we admire the success of our business and corporatist leaders yet wonder why government doesn’t/can’t/won’t operate as efficiently w/those same traits we admire at the helm. Mainly it’s because government is structured by design not to. So the argument became- does the corporatist adapt to the government norms or does government adapt to the corporatist. ‘The Empire Strikes Back’ this cycle pretty much said it. But the margin was not big. It’s a fascinating struggle.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:31 pmMore:
Now who was stirring up suspicion?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html
Now possibly this was 100% hypocritical, and she would have done or approved the same thing Donald Trump did if a Democrat had done it. But if it is more principled, then you have to say another president might not have done it.
The Trump Administration was still arguing with the FDA after the election:
[Who is “everyone?”. I think it will have absolutely no independent effect, and especially once the UK approved it. That means a more or less disinterested party said it is OK. -SF]
You even had people tying themselves into knots to explain why the United Kingdom came in ahead by one week (assuming there will be no unexpected hitch) in approving the Pfizer vaccine: How could they avoid saying either that the UK was too fast or that the US was too slow?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/world/europe/UK-US-coronavirus-vaccine-nationalism.html
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:49 pmPeter Principle. New York street performer plays businessman on TV, reaches his level of incompetence attempting to portray President.
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:49 pmTrump was successful at politicking, DC, but he couldn’t politick his way out of the mismanagement and character hole he dug himself into.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:50 pm103. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:31 pm
Well, for one thing it’s because since at least about 1920, governments have a budget, and corporations don’t. Governments want to predict everything, or pretend to, while corporations try things out, even if they do market research beforehand. In business, there is a penalty for failure; in government often not. In business, even good ideas can fail (because of unfair competition and other companies deliberately or stupidly losing money.)
That goes beyond basic structure (needing votes in the legislature.)
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:56 pmFor most of his tenure in the White House, he hasn’t had the same alien symbiote on his head that he had in 2016, either, I noticed. That may have made a difference, too.
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 5:58 pmNobody pays attention to the organ grinder. Everybody looks at the monkey.
The fact of the matter is that Trump’s so-called Presidency has not been his Presidency. It has been the Presidency of his parade of enablers who actually did things, a few well but mostly half-assed, while he played golf and jerked off. (Or to stick to the monkey analogy, while he entertained the crowd and passed the cup, if you wish.)
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 6:21 pmThat’s a simplification, governments don’t function like business, it doesn’t have profit motives. Maybe somewhat similar to a charity or non-profit, except 5 million times larger.
A business leader may be a good president, but Trump was a terrible businessman, a terrible leader, the least likely be be good at governing that could be imagined. Trump doesn’t really prove any concept beyond a moron is a terrible option. He was a known moron, obvious moron, and he still got 22% of Americans to vote for him.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 12/6/2020 @ 6:23 pmTrump was successful at politicking,
No, he was successful at campaigning. Mass-merchandising politics. He failed at politicking, which is the door-to-door sales variety. Getting people in government to do things his way was incredibly difficult for Trump, and they did not manipulate or stampede like the mob did.
He HAD people who knew how to get this done, but Trump is a hands-on (or foot of clay-on) kind of guy, and he applied the same stupid to every problem.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 6:31 pmKlink, that “22% of Americans” thing is really a low reach for an insult. I doubt that any American president has come close to 40% of “Americans” and Washington probably didn’t get 1%. It’s really a meaningless put-down.
Trump’s problem is that 50% of Americans have double-digit IQs, but while there ARE stupid people in government, the average IQ is much higher there, and the typical education is even better than that.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 6:36 pmTrump doesn’t really prove any concept beyond a moron is a terrible option.
Actually, he does. Eventually ‘folks’ will see it- once they get past the personality quirks, trying to place their own set of morals on to others, the show goes into reruns and the smoke of battle drifts away and such.
You actually heard it surface in the last debate when Biden complained about not getting things done because his party didn’t control Congress while Trump’s almost automatic response was you have to make them work with/for you. Biden’s POV is legit; yet so was Trump’s. That’s the ‘get it done corporatist’ vs. ‘the swamp system bureaucrat’ battle in a nutshell. It’s a fascinating struggle.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/6/2020 @ 7:17 pmRemember when we thought government shouldn’t pick winners and lovers. Good times.
Guess Hollywood doesn’t count or politicians or government union members and on and on…
NJRob (bae371) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:50 pmKM-
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 8:56 pmI am willing to bet huge amounts that not one job at LADWP is cut, and bonuses will roll out at usual.
Given that the Department of Water and Power is not funded with general tax revenues, layoffs there would have no impact on the city’s budget deficit.
Arizona Legislature shuts down after Rudy Giuliani possibly exposed lawmakers to COVID-19
……..
Giuliani had spent more than 10 hours discussing election concerns with Arizona Republicans — including two members of Congress and at least 13 current and future state lawmakers — at the Hyatt Regency Phoenix last Monday. He led the meeting maskless, flouting social distancing guidelines and posing for photos.
Giuliani also met privately with Republican lawmakers and legislative leadership the next day, according to lawmakers’ social media posts.
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:02 pm……..
Superspreader Rudy.
The DWP transfers money each year to the general fund, once it cannot find any facially viable reason to spend it.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:03 pmIn 2017, DWP sent almost a quarter billion dollars to the City. Since the LADWP is wholly-owned by the City of Los Angeles, it could require any level of cost-cutting within labor contracts and reduce the ususal excessive bonuses to provide more revenue. for the city.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:10 pmShould the lawyers attempting to subvert the national election be disbarred?
Asking for a friend.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:12 pmNormal DWP rate hike sequence:
Year 1: big rains; DWP bonuses
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:17 pmYear 2: normal rain; DWP bonues
Year 3: normal rain; DWP bonues
Year 4: slight drought; smaller bonuses
Year 5: growing drought; even smaller bonuses
Year 6: more drought; PEOPLE NEED TO CONSERVE!
Year 7: more drought; CONSERVE MORE!!
Year 8: more drought; DWP not getting enough income due to all the conservation!
Year 9: more drought; raise rates
Year 10: more drought;
Year 11: big rains; Bib DWP bonuese
repeat
always a typo.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:18 pmRe LADWP-
Rip Murdock (74ef5d) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:21 pmWhatever. Not living in the City of Los Angeles I don’t really care.
116. Superspreader Rudy.
It depends on when he contracted it. A newly-infected person is almost certainly not contagious in the first 24 hours after exposure and likely not in the next 24 hours either. The virus needs to incubate and multiply before it starts shedding.
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:34 pmI hope he recovers. It would be too obscene a karmic joke for him to die in what was already a bad joke of a service to the orange crawly thing.
nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 9:44 pmBesides, Herman Cain already died for that plot twist. Just because we’re getting to the end of 2020 is no excuse for the writers to get lazy.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/6/2020 @ 10:18 pm58. Do you think it’s important to apply neutral principles to criticism of people you agree with, irrespective of what people you disagree with do? If not, what standing do you have to criticize opponents who use your tactics? If you do think it’s important, do you ever do it? And if you do ever do it, why don’t you ever do it here?
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:31 pmDid someone bet McConnell that the GOP could not be even stupider?
A doctor who is skeptical of coronavirus vaccines and promotes the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a Covid-19 treatment will be the lead witness at a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing on Tuesday, prompting criticism from Democrats who say Republicans should not give a platform to someone who spreads conspiracy theories.
Dr. Jane M. Orient is the executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a group that opposes government involvement in medicine and views federal vaccine mandates as a violation of human rights.
“A public health threat is the rationale for the policy on mandatory vaccines. But how much of a threat is required to justify forcing people to accept government-imposed risks?” Dr. Orient wrote in a statement to the Senate last year, calling vaccine mandates “a serious intrusion into individual liberty, autonomy and parental decisions.”
There was a time when I thought that the GOP could be saved. Now it’s clear that it just has to be replaced.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:51 pmSomething’s broken. This is a valid link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/us/politics/anti-vax-scientist-senate-hearing.html
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:53 pmI give up. The link in 127 won’t show up, the link in 128 doesn’t preview.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/6/2020 @ 11:54 pm@127 I don’t think the party can be replaced, Kevin M, but Republicans need to do some serious soul-searching.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/12/trump-will-reign-atop-gop-until-2024/617300/
Trump did win 70 million votes, the most of any GOP presidential candidate in history, second only to Biden, who won 77 million votes, and down ballot Republicans did surprisingly well and actually gained seats. So it appears many Republicans rejected Trump but supported the party.
The next several weeks will prove crucial. Rage, denial, conspiracy theories, laughable lawsuits, incredulous claims of voter fraud and election theft, railing against duly elected members, inciting violence against respectable officials for doing their jobs, death threats, calling for medieval torture techniques, hangings and beheadings even–it’s all like a bad Shakespearean tragedy, King Lewd. That is not the direction the party wants to take, because Act V ends in a catastrophe.
A lot depends on the Georgia runoffs. If Perdue and Loeffler both lose, and Democrats take control of the Senate with VP Harris as the tie-breaker, it will signal that Trump’s influence is diminishing before he leaves office. But he’s not going anywhere. He will continue to be a bother, because he has so corrupted the party. He wants to be the kingmaker in the midterm primaries and elections, and a constant problem for Biden.
It’s rare for the party in power to make gains in the midterms. The American people are odd in that way. They really do prefer a divided government, with checks and balances. But if the Republicans follow Trump’s lead over the next two years, ranting and raving, being obstructionist, they might not like the results in 2022 or 2024.
Once he’s out of office, Trump will be irrelevant, except in the deluded minds of his cult base. He should just be ignored as the impotent one-term loser he is. That’s what he dreads most, being ignored.
His gullible cultists have been donating to his election defense PAC, $170 million so far. What these idiots don’t realize is that most of that money will go to paying off his losing campaign debt.
He’s been under investigation and possibly faces prosecution in New York, as is Kushner in New Jersey. Once they’re private citizens again, all bets are off. State crimes, like tax, bank and wire fraud, are not subject to pardon. Other states, like Illinois, Virginia, Florida may follow suit, and Washington DC may jump in the game. His hotels and golf resorts are losing money, as hospitality has been hardest hit by the pandemic. He owes $460 million in personally guaranteed loans from foreign creditors that will come due within two years. That’s right before the midterms.
I don’t see how Trump can continue to exert his influence on the Republican party. However, as you point out, calling a vaccine denier to testify before Congress is an ominous sign. It’s also asinine. These people are in complete denial. Covid-19 is now killing an average of 3,000 Americans daily. That’s like a 9-11 death count every day, without the property damage.
As far as property damage goes, the real estate market is in the commode, flushed into the sewer. Property values are declining all over, due to the economic ruin wrought by the pandemic. You want to sell your house, maybe recover some equity? You can list it at whatever sales price you want, but good luck finding a buyer who can pass a credit check at the title company.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 12/7/2020 @ 2:21 amBetter late than never. Dive right in. The water’s warm.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/7/2020 @ 3:10 amPatterico, Please prepare a post presidential pity party post post-haste.
Via Axios
Time123 (f5cf77) — 12/7/2020 @ 5:39 amI would enjoy seeing the President stepping from that last flight from some law enforcement officials from the State of New York to take him into custody for fraud/tax charges.
Not going to happen but a man can dream…
Appalled (1a17de) — 12/7/2020 @ 6:27 am@102, Sammy, that’s interesting information. But I don’t see how it shows the Dems wouldn’t have supported fast tracking.
Time123 (b4d075) — 12/7/2020 @ 6:35 amI like lawyers that don’t get corona.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/7/2020 @ 7:00 amAn incompetent, pathetic coup attempt is still a coup attempt. — Gary Kasparov, 12-07-2020
nk (1d9030) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:21 amSo, what do you think? Did Jenna Ellis have silicone injections to give her the appearance of high cheekbones?
nk (1d9030) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:27 amJust 25 congressional Republicans acknowledge Joe Biden’s win over President Trump a month after the former vice president’s clear victory of more than 7 million votes nationally and a convincing electoral-vote margin that exactly matched Trump’s 2016 tally…Two Republicans consider Trump the winner despite all evidence showing otherwise. And another 222 GOP members of the House and Senate — nearly 90 percent of all Republicans serving in Congress — will simply not say who won the election.
That’s not their job. Trump is playing this out in the courts (and losing badly in the courts). Why do they need to profess their faith in a Biden election? Let it play out through the courts and the electoral college.
The only purpose of this is to separate GOP lawmakers from their supporters. It is done all the time to the GOP – do you denounce your most extreme supporters, and is almost never done to Democrats.
Mike S (4125f8) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:29 amit’s all like a bad Shakespearean tragedy
That would require a great man to fall. Closer to “Much Ado About Trump”, where the play is refocused on Dogsberry.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:45 am*Dogberry.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:45 amAn incompetent, pathetic coup attempt is still a coup attempt.
It’s so bad it wouldn’t make the cut in comic opera.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:48 am@137: I was thinking anorexia.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:48 amPresident Trump is considering a made-for-TV grand finale: a White House departure on Marine One and final Air Force One flight to Florida for a political rally opposite Joe Biden’s inauguration, sources familiar with the discussions tell Axios.
Running an hour late, Biden orders the plane to divert to Havana, where Trump and party are disembarked.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:52 amhttps://campusreform.org/article?id=16341
Speaking the truth is verboten.
NJRob (b51969) — 12/7/2020 @ 8:58 amMike S, you are technically correct. Under the rules, the swamp critters don’t have to say who’s the President until January 6.
It’s the lies that they’re letting lay. The “rigged election” lies and all that comes from that.
nk (1d9030) — 12/7/2020 @ 9:38 am“The People Have Spoken”: Federal Judge Tosses “Kraken” Lawsuit In Michigan; Update: Dismissed In Georgia Too
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/7/2020 @ 10:11 amYou say kraken
nk (1d9030) — 12/7/2020 @ 10:13 amI say sushi
Pass the wasabi
109. nk (1d9030) — 12/6/2020 @ 6:21 pm
The question is: how did therse enablers get selected?
The fact is Trump had afew, very simple ideas, and didn’t understand things too well. We had first, the Republican Party – therefore the judges, and we had people who agreed, more or less, with his inclinatons, or what he had picked up from commentators on TV or radio. They attempted to make more coherent what Trump wanted or felt like doing. To a large extent, they succeeded, but we possibly might be shocked at how little Trump understood of many matters. Very often, some instinct or political calculations of Trump, fit it in with more developed policy positions, somewhere
Stay in Syria, get out of Syria, stay in Afghanistan, get out of Afghanistan, high tariffs low tariffs, there was always somebody for it. Some people made it their job to make what Trump wanted to do, or most off what he wanted to do, make sense.
Sometimes there was a big problem, like when Trump suddenly suspended aid to Ukraine after it had been agreed to, and they tried to get it restored. Trump didn’t even really explain to his chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, what this was all about, but probably it was caused by him buying into Russian propaganda, which he got mostly through Giuliani, whom some Russian agents had gotten close to by making large contributions to all sorts of Republican causes – not with their own money, and therefore illegal – and then hooking up with Giuliani, first by hiring him as their private lawyer.
gave him two reasons for not helping Ukraine – first, a public purpose reason, that people close They to the new Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, were corrupt, and second, designed to appeal to Trump’s emotions, that these were the very same people in Ukraine who supposedly had wanted to prevent him from getting elected in 2016. And to this was added the accusation that Joe Biden fired the prosecutor to stop and investigation, which was helped along by a videotape in which Joe Biden took credit for firing the prosecutor, although not, Trump maybe didn’t notice, for stopping any investigation. That was communicated to him as commentary.
When this became public, Joe Biden was in a bit of a pickle because he couldn’t set the record straight because he had made up the whole story (Version A in Aug 2016 to the Atlantic) about the flabbergasted U.S. ambassador or (Version B, in the Q&A period of an appearance before the Council on Foreign Relations on Jan 23, 2018) about a cancelled or maybe almost cancelled – it’s not clear – press conference in Kiev where he was to announce the granting of $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees)
Somehow Joe Biden managed to go through a tremendous amount of publicity without having to explain what he meant on Jan 23, 2018. No, it did not happen. Either in March 2016 (when he was not in Ukraine) or in December 2015. He only spoke on the phone with Petro Poroshenko about firing the prosecutor, and that, of course, was only one element of the changes the U.S. wanted.
Sammy Finkelman (190428) — 12/7/2020 @ 10:28 am110. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 12/6/2020 @ 6:23 pm
And chharities waste money or can become corrupt.
https://charity.lovetoknow.com/charitable-organizations/facts-about-past-united-way-corruption-scandals
Yes, without a profit motive there’s no automatic signal of whether things are working well.
Sammy Finkelman (190428) — 12/7/2020 @ 10:35 amNK – 145:
You say they are lies, but that is premature. Trump has asserted these claims in court, and has lost on several fronts. He is spending his political capital in this effort, and if he is willing to do that, why not let him. The lie that some still cling to is that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 election. That went through much more investigation and adjudication than Trump has available to him in this election, yet Democrat lawmakers are not asked to denounce it.
Mike S (4125f8) — 12/7/2020 @ 10:49 amQuestion: What happens to Trump’s influence if his mob votes down two of his strongest supporters and hands the Senate to the Dems? In short, what use is it to support Trump only to see his mob put the knife in?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/7/2020 @ 11:00 amThey’re lies. That’s not hard to see.
Time123 (b4d075) — 12/7/2020 @ 11:05 amKevin M @127 & 128. The link at 128 works; you didn’t put a link in 127.
That doctor is not so much wrong, as out of date.
The only argument for hydroxychloroquine is that it is available, or could be made available, and is cheap.
It’s not the only drug on the market that has some effect on Covid – there are thirty of them that were measured to have some effect.
And then it’s not really the hydroxychloroquine; it’s the zinc. And Vitamin D also makes adifference. All that hydroxychrlroquine does is reduce the seriousness of an infection.
Giuliani said in October he was taking it, which could explain how he survived without getting diagnosed with Covid until now. He might have been infected a few times before now but didn;t feel bad.
He was feeling run down on Sunday and went to a hospital. Although they haven’t announced anything * about his treatment, they probably gave him, before admitting him (protocol calls for, I think only doing this on an outpatient basis) what really works, the Regeneron monoclonal neutralizing antibodies that cured Donald Trump and Chris Christie (or maybe ones from Eli Lilly) and within hours he was much better and wanted to get out of the hospital.
Sammy Finkelman (190428) — 12/7/2020 @ 11:17 am—————
– Giuliani wrote on Twitter: “I’m getting great care and feeling good. Recovering quickly and keeping up with everything.”
152. Time123 (b4d075) — 12/7/2020 @ 11:05 am
It could also be “willful blindness” or a hope that if he repeats it enough it will become true. Like when he says an apartment is worth $2 million – repeat it enough and it may come true. (This is not exactly the same thing, though.)
Trump can;t be really that stupid as to believe these lies but he may be stupid enough to think he might make them stick – at least to some of the people, some of the time – and that that might matter.
They have to be lies on the part of whoever thought them up in the first place, which would not be Donald Trump. He doesn’t know enough to invent any of the lies he’s repeating.
Sammy Finkelman (190428) — 12/7/2020 @ 11:36 amFrom November 2, 2020: (the day before the US. Presidential election)
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/02/trump-biden-election-prediction-israel-oracles-astrology
Sheldon Adelson is one of the bigger contributors to Trump’s election fight vehicles.
Jews are not supposed to pay attention to astrologers!
Sammy Finkelman (190428) — 12/7/2020 @ 12:21 pmI hope this isn’t a dead thread, because this is a very interesting read.
A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon
Playing with reality
https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5
Time123 (f5cf77) — 12/7/2020 @ 12:21 pm156. I had trouble reading that link on my home system, and found this better one: (for at least the start)
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/21/1996184/-Apophenia-A-game-designer-s-analysis-of-QAnon
Well, yes it does that – I described it as codes of the type used to prove that Bacon wrote Shakespeare – but that’s just the method of arguing, not the purpose of it.
Sammy Finkelman (190428) — 12/7/2020 @ 12:57 pm