Patterico's Pontifications

8/20/2020

Marvin Creamer, 1916-2020

Filed under: General — JVW @ 6:14 pm



[guest post by JVW]

If you hadn’t heard of him, fear not: neither had I. But he was mentioned today in Jay Nordlinger’s Impromptus column at National Review Online, so I just had to go to his obituary in the New York Times to learn more about a remarkable man:

Had Marvin Creamer not been a geographer, he very likely would not have lived to be 104.

Professor Creamer, who died at that age on Wednesday, taught geography for many years at Glassboro State College, now Rowan University, in Glassboro, N.J.

His expertise helped him become a history-making mariner, the first recorded person to sail round the world without navigational instruments. His 30,000-mile odyssey, in a 36-foot cutter with a small crew, made headlines worldwide on its completion in 1984.

No 20th century (radio) or even 18th century (sextant) technology for him, not even some rudimentary 15th century technology such as a mariner’s astrolabe or a 12th century compass. Professor Creamer sailed as the Vikings and Polynesians, among other earlier seafaring people, had centuries before:

It is daunting enough to circumnavigate the Earth with the aid of modern global positioning technology, much less with medieval and Renaissance tools like a mariner’s compass and sextant.

But Professor Creamer, in the grip of an obsession that had held him for years, shunned even those newfangled contrivances, as well as a radio, a clock and a wristwatch. He chose instead to rely on his deep knowledge of the planet and its vagaries, and be guided by nothing more than wind, waves, the sun by day, and the moon and stars by night.

Under cloud-massed skies, he could divine his location from the color and temperature of the water, the presence of particular birds and insects and even, on one occasion, the song of a squeaky hatch.

[. . .]

His 513-day journey would entail nearly a year on the sea, plus time in ports for repairs and reprovisioning. It would take the Globe Star to Capetown, South Africa; Hobart and Sydney, Australia; Whangara, New Zealand; and the Falkland Islands off Argentina before its triumphant return to Cape May on May 17, 1984 — an event that Professor Creamer gleefully described as “one small step back for mankind.”

Along the way, he and his crew braved lashing storms and long, directionless days with no wind; found themselves trapped in shipping lanes amid thick fog and the terrifying horns of oncoming tankers; had whales bear down on them like freight trains; rounded the treacherous waters of Cape Horn entirely blind; were at one point pitched nearly upside-down and at another arrested.

“A jolly romp,” Professor Creamer called the whole thing.

In an era where so many of us don’t even want to venture out of our own homes without a fully-charged smart phone with a strong 4G LTE signal, here’s marveling at the sheer brass of a man who trusted the seas, the skies, his know-how, and his derring-do. I strongly recommend reading the rest of the obituary to learn of some amazing stories from that journey. But if you don’t, I want to at least leave you with what would be a fitting epitaph from the final lines of the obituary:

Professor Creamer continued sailing well into his 90s. In later years, he owned a boat that came equipped with global positioning technology.

He did not know how to use the technology, he said, and had no intention of learning.

Rest in peace, sir.

– JVW

113 Responses to “Marvin Creamer, 1916-2020”

  1. The crew stayed in Tasmania for six weeks, and local fishermen were so amazed with their voyage that they held six parties in a week for them — every single week while they were there. Anyone would be proud to have this obituary be written about them.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  2. What a fantastic report, JVW. And so timely too. I am reading The Puzzle of Polynesia: Sea People, which explores the islands and its origins. I am currently fuming over the iconoclastic New Zealand historian, Andrew Sharp, who, in 1956, dismissed the idea that the Polynesian natives were able to intentionally travel across the ocean from Point A to B without modern navigational instruments. I will excerpt from the book:

    Sharp argued in his book Ancient Voyagers in the Pacific, that “the longest intentional journey made by any Polynesisian voyager was no more than 300 miles, that no gap larger than this had ever been crossed on purpose,” all because he believed that due to the absence of modern navigation instruments (sextants, compasses, devices to measure time, it was simply “not possible to track where one was on the open ocean.” Further, Sharp insisted that “Polynesians reputation as “outstanding voyagers” within the defined three-hundred mile limit, “the myth of the deliberate long off-shore voyages in teh days before navigation instruments” was not, Sharp insisted “supported by the evidence.”

    What’s particularly galling is that Cook, who made three voyages to the Polynesia Islands, concluded the opposite after his first voyage there in the late 1760s:

    From all the accounts we can learn, these people sail in those seas from Island to Island for several hundred Leagues (1,000 miles), the Sun serving them for compass by day and the Moon and Stars by night. When this comes to be prov’d we Shall be no longer at a loss to know how the Islands lying those Seas came to be people’d.”

    It’s amazing how, even today, we simply have a hard time grasping the fact that people were able to thrive and think and create and live in advanced societies leading intentional lives apart from our modernity and all that it affords.

    Dana (292df6)

  3. I am so glad I read this.

    DRJ (aede82)

  4. It’s amazing how, even today, we simply have a hard time grasping the fact that people were able to thrive and think and create and live in advanced societies leading intentional lives apart from our modernity and all that it affords.

    I am starting to wonder if their lives weren’t all the more meaningful without the modern contrivances, but that’s the grumpy old man in me coming out.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  5. I am starting to wonder if their lives weren’t all the more meaningful without the modern contrivances,

    Do the words “nasty, brutish, and short” strike a chord? You do know the Polynesians were cannibals, right?

    nk (1d9030)

  6. And, yeah, I read Francis Chichester’s book about his voyage around the world in his 54-foot ketch. Or was is a yawl? About fifty years ago. Once in a lifetime is enough for that kind of book. I escaped the whole Kon-Tiki craze.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. You do know the Polynesians were cannibals, right?

    Eh, cow and pig taste pretty good. And Alferd Packer was eventually paroled and had the grill at the University of Colorado Student Center named in his honor. Meanwhile, today’s high school students don’t know how to get from Pacific Palisades to Santa Monica without Google Maps.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  8. Fantastic post! Thank you. How amazing!

    felipe (023cc9)

  9. Read “Dove” by Robin Lee Graham in college. He had a sextant, compass and charts, and he cheated by going through the Panama Canal, but a 16 year old sailing solo around the world in a 23 ft vessel is pretty amazing. If I remember correctly, he also did it traveling west.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d289d1)

  10. @6. Chichester was icon in Britain- they issued a stamp in his honor – I remember using them.

    ‘Chichester was also honoured in 1967 by a newly issued 1/9d (one shilling and nine pence) postage stamp, which showed him aboard Gipsy Moth IV. This went against an unwritten tradition of the General Post Office, because Chichester was neither a member of the royal family nor dead when the stamp was issued.’ – source stickyWiki

    Loved sailing w/my Dad. He named my sailboat ‘Oboe.’ ‘Why,’ I asked? ‘Because it’s a wind instrument and you can play on it.’ Funniest thing he ever said.

    There’s something to be said bout being three sheets to the wind.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. My God.

    JoeyBee is stumbling through his speech– painful; awful; stiff and clearly reading a teleprompter.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. Eh. He’s doing fine.

    Nic (896fdf)

  13. Alferd Packer. I did not need to Wikipedia this, but I did it to copypasta the quote for you all:

    According to a local newspaper, which received their quote from Larry Dolan, the presiding judge, M.B. Gerry, said:
    Stand up yah voracious man-eatin’ sonofabitch and receive yir sintince. When yah came to Hinsdale County, there was siven Dimmycrats. But you, yah et five of ’em, goddam yah. I sintince yah t’ be hanged by th’ neck ontil yer dead, dead, dead, as a warnin’ ag’in reducin’ th’ Dimmycratic populayshun of this county. Packer, you Republican cannibal, I would sintince ya ta hell but the statutes forbid it.[8]

    nk (1d9030)

  14. @12.Are you high?

    Doom, gloom, dour, dark — and plagiarizes a line from ‘A Few Good Men.’

    Then this:

    “No miracle is coming!”- Joe Biden 8/20/2020

    He’s an idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  15. This is a disaster. He makes Mondale and Dukakas sound like Lincolns.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. What line from “A Few Good Men”, DCSCA?

    nk (1d9030)

  17. The angry great-grandfather act isn’t working.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. Look at his face- he is literally sneering.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. @16. truth- can’t handle it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. Loved sailing w/my Dad. He named my sailboat ‘Oboe.’ ‘Why,’ I asked? ‘Because it’s a wind instrument and you can play on it.’ Funniest thing he ever said.

    For what’s it worth, it also has the reputation (or at least did way back in my band years three-and-one-half decades ago) of being the hardest woodwind instrument to master. I wouldn’t want that omen for a sailboat.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  21. “No miracle is coming.” – Joe Biden…. I cannot believe he said that.

    This speech sounds like the blatherings of a head case on a couch to a psychoanalyst. Beau-ing, Beau-ing, gone. And several references to the 1930s????

    My God. This is painful to see.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. This is so sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. @16 Actual Few good men line: “The truth?! You can’t handle the truth!”

    Biden: “…tell them the truth. Because they CAN handle it.”

    He didn’t plagiarize it, he referenced it.

    You keep saying plagiarism. I do not think you are defining that word as it is defined (find the movie reference 😛 )

    Nic (896fdf)

  24. “No miracle is coming!”- Joe Biden 8/20/2020

    And this man calls himself a Catholic? He is not mocking Trump, He’s mocking God.

    felipe (023cc9)

  25. Look at the anger.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. @16 It’s not a terrible speech. Personally I think he should have left out the attack on Trump, I think the rest of it would’ve been a stronger speech and shorter as well. The start was slow and I’ve heard enough about Beau now, but finish was really good.

    Nic (896fdf)

  27. Not even a smile. Nasty, angry and in-need-of-prune-juice.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. @26. It was a disaster. Nic. Even the Hindenburg was more uplifting– as it crashed to the ground.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. @28 It would be nice if you were an honest broker this election, but you aren’t. I hope that you’re having fun shooting the moon at least.

    Nic (896fdf)

  30. The start was slow and I’ve heard enough about Beau now
    You ain’t heard nothing yet– by the week’s end you’ll wish Dead Beau was running.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. @29. Plagiarists don’t rate ‘honesty.’ This was a diasterous speech. Negative, dismal, dour, angry and disturbing.

    Imagine FDR saying: ‘There is no miracle coming.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. @24. It was a disaster.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. Great post and a nice diversion, JVW. Thanks.

    I am starting to wonder if their lives weren’t all the more meaningful without the modern contrivances, but that’s the grumpy old man in me coming out.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 8/20/2020 @ 7:25 pm

    There’s no sense of adventure anymore! My dad and I would go on roadtrips, he’d hand me a map and I’d have no idea where we were and need to figure it out, figure out where we were going, what might be on the way. It was fun and I’ll do the same with my own, crossing the country, phones locked up in the glovebox.

    DCSCA, is it really necessary to bring up the dumb election, even in a feel-good memorial kinda post? Surely a guy like you has some sailboat story right?

    Look at the anger.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/20/2020 @ 8:12 pm

    I get this way too so I’m not judging you, but if Joe Biden is not a source of joy in your life, maybe think about him a little less frequently. I’m not saying shut up. I’m just saying don’t let Joe Biden own your mind.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  34. @26.Personally, I think he should have smiled, spoken in uplifting tones and projected a positive vision for the future. Instead, it was a doom dictum.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. I’m just saying don’t let Joe Biden own your mind.

    If he mails me a $1200 check he can buy it.

    ‘Love For Sale.’ – Cole Porter

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. For what’s it worth, it also has the reputation (or at least did way back in my band years three-and-one-half decades ago) of being the hardest woodwind instrument to master.

    The oboe: An ill wind that nobody blows good.

    The folk shawms in all their variations, and the baroque oboe in C4-D6, are still decent. The modern orchestra oboe is a decadent travesty of hyper-technicalism and the complete desiccation of all individuality.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. ‘The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.’- FDR

    ‘Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.’ – Ronald Reagan

    ‘Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.’ – JFK

    ‘No miracle is coming.’ – Joe Biden

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. @31 Personal opinion: I believe that one owes at least some level of honest brokership to members of one’s community, even if it is on the internet. Obviously there are people in every community who do not participate in that idea in any way, even on this board. However, you are not usually one of those people on this board, except for this one issue. So I tire of this particular clown act because I know you are not usually that person.

    Nic (896fdf)

  39. @38. Zero slack to a plagiarist. For God’s sake, Nic, the man had to QUIT in 1988 because of it. It is a blatant character tell– nd I’m disappointend this geeration o journalists are giving hi a pass on it. Cronkite certainly wouldn’t have.. I’ve caught plagiarists when I was at CBS. It destroys careers. And there is no expiration date on it. Sure, Trump is a putz; but at least you know you’re smarter than he is. Joe has been part of the problem in Washington for 45 years. And if you believe wht he sai to night was inspiring, uplifting an a positive vision for the future other than Trump bad, Beau good and ‘no miracle is coming,’ I want to start taking what you’re on.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. Under cloud-massed skies, he could divine his location from the color and temperature of the water, the presence of particular birds and insects and even, on one occasion, the song of a squeaky hatch.

    Oh, so he had a thermometer. Nice try.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  41. @39 And that is a legit concern (though from what you said it isn’t really your primary concern, even if it is your primary talking point). But we all are really really really aware of your stance on it at this point. Really aware.

    As far as what I thought of the speech, I posted it above. Not terrible, weak start, some strong parts sprinkled in, unnecessary Beau, unnecessary Trump attack, strong finish. Too long.

    Nic (896fdf)

  42. Give DCSCA a break. We get to brag to our friends that we hung with the first documented case of Biden Derangement Syndrome.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  43. I take no joy from watching Deezy-eska’s meltdown as he realizes that he and his idol Trump have succeeded in neutering the modern intellectual property rights movement by putting a plagiarist in the White House.

    Well, ok; maybe a little joy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  44. @41.And that is a legit concern

    It’s just one of many. And Righties who boast of principles and ethics yet want to give Biden a pass on so much only out of their hatred for Trump is pure hypocrisy and betrays the hollowness of their ‘conservatism.’ I win either way this cycle; the objective is to neuter the modern ideologica conservative movement. Either guy does that. But Joe won’t last another 18 months– so do you want Klieg-Lite-Kamala as CIC or Showman Trump? Never forget- in this era, Americans don’t want to be governed, they wish to be entertained. Trump wins on that score hands down.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. Yeah, if I were looking to hire a staff writer for a publishing house to ghost-write books, I might think twice about hiring Joe Biden too.

    But if I were looking for a President
    with 50 years’ experience in government including 8 years as Vice President;
    who had never been divorced;
    who had never expressed a desire to “date” his daughter;
    who had never paid $130,000 to be spanked by a hooker;
    who had not been in over 3,500 lawsuits;
    who had not said “It is what it is” about 1,200 American dying from coronavirus every days because of his worthlessness;
    and who had never been buggered by Roy Cohn,
    then Joe Biden would be okay with me.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. @43.You really don’ get it, Davey; it’s a win, either way.

    But Biden is a seriously damaged person. Clinging to Beau is as big a tell as being caught as a serial plagiarist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. @45. then Joe Biden would be okay with me.

    And Kamala?

    Look at him; listen to him; he’ll be dead within two years.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. An even bigger tell is that Biden owes no money to Russian kleptocrats laundered through Deutsche Bank, or to the PLA through China bank. What kind of xenophobe is that to put in the White House?

    nk (1d9030)

  49. @48./@45. Yeah, Trump has lived for sure- has lots of life in him.

    Joe- not so much.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. Kamala bothered me for three days. But we really do need to flush what stinks in that toilet right now, and worry about what gets dumped in later when it happens.

    nk (1d9030)

  51. @50. Well, if the parties worked it would be a Cuomo vs., Haley race.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. @44 I think Trump is killing Americans with his (lack of coherent) policy toward covid. I think he’s undermining the government and the country by appointing traitors, foreign agents, and criminals and is a criminal himself. I think he doesn’t care about the law so much that he is repeatedly violating the constitution. I think he is weakening us in the world. I think he doesn’t believe he’s president of anyone who didn’t vote for him and that he will (and is) deliberately revenging himself on anyone who even might have voted against him and/or even slightly goes against him.

    I think Biden is an old, old-style moderate Democrat who probably won’t get much done and has a decent jobs plan that he might get done because he cleverly uses lefty climate terminology to talk about it. I think Kamala Harris doesn’t have a set viewpoint and is very ambitious.

    If my choice is Trump now or Biden now and Kamala in 2/3/4 years? I’ll take Biden/Harris who are at very least not trying to kill me or the country. I would very much like a few years of governmental boredom.

    Nic (896fdf)

  53. @51 I can’t see the appeal of Cuomo. I agree on Haley though.

    Nic (896fdf)

  54. @52. Trump isn’t killing anyone. The people who defy common sense are putting themselves at risk. If Trump told Americans to jump off bridges as a cure for Covid-19, would you go jump? A lot of ths comes down to personal responsibly. That poor guy they showcased who was 65 and went to a karioki bar and got sick and his daughter blames Trump was a fool because he was in the age range and going to a br in a pandemic was just plain stupid. He killed himself.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. That Willie Brown stuff, that’s bothersome only to virgins. What really worries me is that she’s a California progressive, elected statewide three times, and it does not get farther to an effectual Left than that. (“Effectual”, not jumped up noise-makers from Minneapolis and Greenwich Village.)

    nk (1d9030)

  56. @53. My point is it would be a saner either-or choice.

    I support Haley. I don’t agree w/everything she advocates but I believe she is the right fit for the times. Just bob the hair, let a little grey show and she falls just right between the scale of a Palin and a Thatcher in imagery for the TeeVee. And that is all that matters today.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. @55. She gave a nat’l speech 24 hours ago an it is long forgotten. Her presence likely lingers less than her perfume.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. I do wonder if it is better if Trump is allowed to burn out…like a virus. 2.# years of President Harris will lead to one of the GOP under-60 douchebro brigade.

    urbanleftbehind (abfd11)

  59. @54 I say this with all due affection for the American people: There are a lot of people who place more credibility with the powerful people they listen to than they do in reason.

    Nic (896fdf)

  60. nk, if it makes you feel any better, she’s popular with the identitarian left, but persona non grata with the social justice left.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  61. I would very much like a few years of governmental boredom.

    Been there; done that: Carter/Mondale.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. @59. Only the dummies would jump from the bridges.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. @60 I suspect that if she tweaked her policies right she’d attract most independents (I don’t hate her, for instance) and some moderate Dems.

    @61 I was busy learning to read, mostly buried under 10 feet of snow in Aroostook county V. Northern Maine. I didn’t notice. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  64. @62 I mean…

    Nic (896fdf)

  65. @me @63 “tweaked her policies *correctly*”

    Nic (896fdf)

  66. 58.I do wonder if it is better if Trump is allowed to burn out…

    I ponder who’ll play him in the movie; but of course, he’ll insist on the part for himself.

    Trump like Reagan on that score- the stink is going to linger for decades.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. Apology to JVW- thread drifted OT. Creamer pieces are inspiring; sailing is such challenge and navigating like that against the elements is simply awesome; Lindberghesque.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. I get sea sick very easily. Only gone deep sea fishing a couple of times in the gulf of Mexico. It’s not really sporting or physically pleasant so it’s not for me.

    The idea of sailing the world might as well be landing on the moon as far as I’m concerned. Like many Texans, the blue sea is other-worldly and captivating to me. A shame.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  69. @68. The idea of sailing the world might as well be landing on the moon as far as I’m concerned. Like many Texans, the blue sea is other-worldly and captivating to me.

    Actually, landing on the moon is very Texan, Dustin-

    Houston, Tranquility Base here; The Eagle has landed.’ – N. A. Armstrong, CDR, Apollo 11, 7/20/69

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. Nice post JVW. Well done.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  71. After several evenings of obvious pandering by Afro-Sheen TeeVee, just ask yourselves if fawning over Beau and spitting fire at Trump was enough to attract those important lunch-bucket middle class, white ‘Reagan Democrats’ across the Rustbelt, the Midwest and the region between Pgh and Philly back into the flock from backing Trump. Doubt it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. How interesting that you are from Maine, Nic. I spent three months as a Mormon missionary in Portland in 1986. It was a lovely area, and the people were very welcoming.

    norcal (a5428a)

  73. Why am I always the one that puts this blog to bed?

    norcal (a5428a)

  74. @72 I’m not actually from (anywhere). Military 😛 . I was there for 4 yrs.

    Nic (896fdf)

  75. 15, 17, 34, 37, 39, 71

    Guy Benson (Townhall): “Biden crushed expectations”

    Karl Rove (Fox): “a very good speech”

    Dana Parino (Fox): “a home run”

    Chris Wallace (Fox): “an enormously effective speech”

    Not a #nevertrump among them. Even Laura effing Ingraham called it “a good speech.”

    So maybe you’re not the most objective judge.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  76. Rich Galen, ex-Newt spokesman: “@JoeBiden isn’t that good an actor. That speech came from the heart and it reached mine.”

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  77. Brit Hume: “very good” “delivered with force and clarity”

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  78. @75. ROFLMAOPIP everybody enjoys a Beau-Job; we media elitists love it when you let us do your thinking for you.

    After several evenings of obvious pandering by Afro-Sheen TeeVee, just ask yourselves if fawning over Beau and spitting fire at Trump was enough to attract those important lunch-bucket middle class, white ‘Reagan Democrats’ across the Rustbelt, the Midwest and the region between Pgh and Philly back into the flock from backing Trump.

    Doubt it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. And what is the most memorable line from his teleprompted speech?

    “No miracle is coming,” a hopeless Biden told the nation. “I have news for him. No miracle is coming,” Joe Biden says at the #DemConvention regarding Trump’s response to the coronavirus pandemic pic.twitter.com/bcbH69qoYk — BuzzFeed News (@BuzzFeedNews) August 21, 2020

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. Yeah, I’m sure you’re right. What could politics and media professionals know about persuading voters that you don’t? You should set them straight. They’ll probably send you a gift basket with delicious mini-muffins.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  81. Thank you, JVW.

    mg (8cbc69)

  82. Deezy-eska knows that only his guy Trump will put the coloreds back in their place.

    And make it 1964 again.

    Dave (1bb933)

  83. There will be no miracle. Wishful thinking about Covid-19 magically disappearing is only in the mind of a demented orange baboon talking to inbreds who keep the race pure by marrying their sisters. It will take hard work, determination, and ingenuity to recover and make America New York-Sewer-Scum-Free Again.

    nk (1d9030)

  84. MAKE AMERICA NEW-YORK-SEWER-SCUM-FREE AGAIN! FLUSH THAT TOILET!

    nk (1d9030)

  85. Thanks, JVW, interesting post. A very remarkable man indeed.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  86. The thing is, a lot of conservatives would be happy to see an Afro Sheen sponsored event; ostensibly that means it’s just a bunch of ADOS…traditional native-born black folk mostly over 40 by now, not those pesky immigrants or those young blacks with their dreadlocks. Heck I didnt even know they were still in business.

    urbanleftbehind (2435f7)

  87. mr president donald trump who wants you to know that his daughter is a piece of ass warned us that delawaretrash biden would hurt god

    and now he says there wont be a miracle

    what a mean thing to say to mr god

    Dave (1bb933)

  88. 80.What could politics and media professionals know about persuading voters that you don’t?

    Gee, maybe you outta ask President Hillary Rodham Clinton– or maybe Tom Dewey— that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. @82. Know yours, Davey; don’t be uppity. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. 86.The thing is, a lot of conservatives would be happy to see an Afro Sheen sponsored event…

    Yes, they miss having the tail waggin’ the dog; the dwindling list of NR subscribers and the likes of ol’Georgie Will only have the moon to bark at these days.

    And the thing is – even if every one of them votes anti-Trump, there just ain’t enuf of ’em to win, hence the desperate push for early voting before debates. America’s electorate is 75% white and they know it. You need to believe the old ‘Reagan Democrats’ were persuaded by the messaging from the ‘convention’ by Kamala, JoeyBee and Julia Louis-Dreyfuss to come home.

    Guess what: “No miracle is coming.” – Joe Biden

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. 87.mr president donald trump who wants you to know that his daughter is a piece of ass…

    Surprise- he told a truth: she is, Davey.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  92. Wrong “conservatives”…I’m thinking more the Red Pill/Walk Away gang, and those who pine for the Vernon dude from Georgia, Sheriff Clarke, and Diamind/Silk.

    urbanleftbehind (2435f7)

  93. 88.

    80.What could politics and media professionals know about persuading voters that you don’t?

    Gee, maybe you outta ask President Hillary Rodham Clinton– or maybe Tom Dewey— that.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/21/2020 @ 9:06 am

    Sure. Expertise is for suckers. The fact that 20% likelihoods win one out of five times means 80% likelihoods aren’t the safer bet. One time I lost money on an analyst recommended stock, so now I take all my financial advice from baristas and Uber drivers.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  94. @93. Paid media opinionators are hardly ‘experts’ – and Dana ‘What-Cuban-Missile-Crisis’ is certainly not one.

    You really should listen more closely; awarding points for delivery is not affirmation nor accolades for content. The old dude read a speech he practiced tons of times w/a few hiccups, pooped and peed all in the same day. Whoopee! See if he can stop the clock from flashing on the Betamax in his bedroom… then hand him the nuke codes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. ^ Dana Perino

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  96. 122 million people are said to have tuned in to Biden’s acceptance speech. They saw for themselves whether he “gaffed”, or fell off the stage, or gave Pericles’s Funeral Oration.

    nk (1d9030)

  97. @96. 20 minutes of life 122 million cannot get back. Might as well have watched the CBS Evening News.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  98. 97. You have every right to hate Joe Biden. There are weirder fetishes on the Internet. But you shouldn’t expect to be taken seriously as an objective commentator anything Biden-related.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  99. Don’t give up, DCSCA! Gaslighting has been scientifically proven to work. They have put people in rooms and had other people tell them that a line that was drawn six inches long was longer than a line that was drawn twelve inches, and the subjects agreed with what they were told and not with what they were seeing with their own eyes.

    That’s how the nattering nabobs of negativism, and their own 4-H Club — the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history — stay in business. But they will still have the silent majority to contend with.

    nk (1d9030)

  100. I haven’t watched a second of the democratic convention but this conversation got me to put me stupid textbooks down and watch Biden’s speech.

    I don’t like Biden. I’ve criticized him hundreds of times on this blog for over ten years.

    He started off weak, but he got a lot stronger and more passionate. 25 minutes is a long time to talk. Most 20 year olds wouldn’t be able to do it this well. A lot of what Biden said, particularly about the dignity of getting a job, was genuine. He wasn’t stuttering or slurring through all that the way he was through the boiler-plate politics stuff.

    I think Biden’s wrong that this is the time we overcome hate. Hate is so valuable and productive and the best way to manipulate the stupid. I hope I’m wrong. But hey, might as well give it a shot.

    Trump really has screwed up. I’ve spent all these years as the obnoxious believer in the GOP. I’ve had all these little debates about it. I was an effing fool. I didn’t vote for Trump at least.

    Anyway, thanks DCSCA for motivating me to watch Biden’s speech. I hope I can give a speech that well when I’m 3000 years old.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  101. I’m a couple of decades shy of 3000 and I doubt I could do it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  102. Is 20-25 minutes unusually long for a presidential convention acceptance speech?

    The tempo was completely different from what we’re used to, with no audience reaction.

    In a typical speech, the breaks for applause would normally give the speaker a chance to take a breath, or a sip of water, and collect themself before continuing.

    Also an opportunity to change the dynamics of their delivery. Generally these speeches build up to a crescendo followed by cheering, and when the speaker resumes they can lower the intensity before building up to the next applause line. In that sense the aftermath of the crowd reaction also gives the audience a chance to relax too.

    I thought Biden said a lot of things that needed to be said, and carried himself well.

    Dave (1bb933)

  103. @98. Hate? Clearly he hated himself: you really should do your homework- he quit his 1988 run– when he was 32 years younger- because he was caught and outted as a serial plagiarist.
    There is no expiration date on plagiarism; a blatant character tell worth ten thousand teleprompter speeches; a tell no Rightie would give a pass to if Obama did it.

    You really don’t get it: either guy is a win/win as the objective is to neuter the modern ideological conservative movement.

    The real questions you should be asking are- did the Afro-Sheen-Team attract back those Rustbelt Midwest, in-between-Pgh/Philly-type white Reagan Democrats from the Trump camp. Doubt it. Are crossover anti-Trump Righties prepared for a President Harris– for an honest listen and look shows you Plagiarist JoeyBee won’t last 18 months. He can barely stand for 18 minutes and won’t travel more than 18 miles from the Delaware state line. In an era when Americans don’t want to be governed but wish to be entertained, it’s Showman Trump for the win. JR Ewing beats George Wilson in the ratings every time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  104. @99. But they will still have the silent majority to contend with…

    Yes, put mor angry blacks and browns on the TeeVee torching neighborhoods shooting u Chi-Town and gneratin mayhem.

    That Silent Majority is smiling; they’re staying the course w/Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. I thought Biden said a lot of things that needed to be said, and carried himself well.

    Don’t look them up: just name them from memory. You probably couldn’t; he certainly can’t.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. Most 3000 year olds can manage a teleprompter; Reagan did at 5000.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. @100. ‘I’ve spent all these years as the obnoxious believer in the GOP.’

    LOL…

    “Now you know better.” – George Taylor [Charlton Heston] ‘Planet Of The Apes’ 1968

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. DCSCA,

    Just to change things up a bit, whom would you support if it were Pence running against Harris?

    I’m curious.

    norcal (a5428a)

  109. Don’t look them up: just name them from memory. You probably couldn’t; he certainly can’t.

    Let’s see.

    Something about “Person, woman, man, camera, TV.”

    No wait, that was the other guy.

    Biden made a number of important points about defeating the virus being the key to economic and social (meaning: living our lives normally again) recovery.

    He pointed out that the United States has had the worst COVID-19 response in the entire world. And that the Orange lunatic still doesn’t have a plan, apart from telling everyone a miracle will magically happen.

    He reminded people of Trump’s cozying up to neo-nazis, Chinese, Russians and North Koreans.

    He said Trump betrayed our servicemen and women, by turning a blind-eye to Russian bounties on them, and using them as political props for a photo-op.

    He said that Trump has disgraced our country and its ideals in the eyes of the world, and turned on our allies.

    He said that Trump wanted to eliminate the payroll tax that funds Social Security.

    Those are a few of things I remember.

    Dave (1bb933)

  110. Marvin would have been an interesting friend to have.
    Thanks again, JVW.

    mg (8cbc69)

  111. LOL…

    “Now you know better.” – George Taylor [Charlton Heston] ‘Planet Of The Apes’ 1968

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/22/2020 @ 1:04 am

    Yup

    Dustin (4237e0)

  112. 108. Seldom in a Pensive mood; but Haley vs. Harris, yes.

    Don’t underestimate our Captain’s capacity to surprise. He may just feel Race Bannon needs to spend more time w/his family– and Nikki is naturally tanned, rested, just spicy enough to be tangy and feisty,– experienced– and ready…. and young enough to be alive long after JoeyBee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. @109.Any ‘plan’ mumbled by Plagiarist JoeyBee to battle Covid-19 is meaningless and unenforceable in a nation full of defiant non-mask wearers and nutbags who wave the Constitution, won’t take personal responsibility and exercise basic common sense. How is Biden’s cancer moonshot going? A lot like that Russian moon program. Still waitin’ to plat the vitory flag.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


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