Patterico's Pontifications

6/1/2020

Private Autopsy: George Floyd Died Of “Asphyxia From Sustained Pressure” (Update Added)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:36 pm



[guest post by Dana]

From the NYT:

George Floyd died not just because of the knee lodged at his neck by a Minneapolis Police officer, but also because of the other officers who helped hold him down, a private autopsy found.

Dr. Allecia M. Wilson of the University of Michigan and Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner, were hired by Mr. Floyd’s family to help determine his cause of death.

“Not only was the knee on George’s neck a cause of his death, but so was the weight of the other two police officers on his back, who not only prevented blood flow into his brain but also air flow into his lungs,” said Antonio Romanucci, a lawyer for the family.

Benjamin Crump, the family’s lead lawyer, said emergency medical records showed Mr. Floyd was dead at the scene.

“For George Floyd, the ambulance was his hearse,” Mr. Crump said.

The knee to his back compressed his lungs and prevented them from being able to take air in and out, he said.

Note, from Dr. Baden:

“The autopsy shows that Mr. Floyd had no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death. This is confirmed by information provided to Dr. Wilson and myself by the family.”

“What we found is consistent with what people saw. There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death. Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That’s not true.”

Contrast the private autopsy findings, as reported, with the preliminary report released by the the Hennepin County Medical Examiner:

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.

UPDATE: Hennepin County Medical Examiner announced their findings with regard to George Floyd’s death this afternoon:

The medical examiner’s office in Hennepin County, Minnesota, released a report that said George Floyd’s death was a homicide resulting from being restrained.

The statement said the cause of death is “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restrain, and neck compression.”

It further added that Floyd died from experiencing a “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).”

The American Heart Association described cardiopulmonary arrest as the abrupt loss of heart function.

The medical examiner’s office statement said Floyd had indications of heart disease including “arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease,” as well as fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use.

–Dana

47 Responses to “Private Autopsy: George Floyd Died Of “Asphyxia From Sustained Pressure” (Update Added)”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. Welcome to post-truth America.

    Choose the version of the facts you prefer.

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. Dave,

    It will be very interesting to see what the final findings are in the ME’s report.

    Dana (0feb77)

  4. One is a public official who is responsible to all the citizens of Hennepin. The other is a hired hand responsible only to the people who hired him.

    Kishnevi (e4a4c9)

  5. Kishnevi (e4a4c9) — 6/1/2020 @ 2:52 pm

    Quite right Kish. One is government cheese while the other is Camembert.

    felipe (023cc9)

  6. In a way, you don’t need an autopsy. The legal question (that may distinguish between Murder 3 and Murder 2) is whether, in a person who had the apparent physical condition George Floyd was in, the actions done to him should have been expected to kill him, or should not have been expected to kill him.

    A further question is. did he shows signs, while this was going on. that his life was in danger.

    Both of the autopsy reports don;t sound right. One says that the pressure on him had nothing to do with his death at all; the other claims that you can be choked even when you can simultaneously talk. Now the amount of oxygen he cod absorb in this situation might have been too low.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  7. Welcome to post-truth America.“
    _

    Yes, there really are people who think this is a new thing.
    _

    Just a guess but people with underlying medical conditions such as coronary disease and hypertension do not react well to a knee on the throat.

    IMO it doesn’t matter which side you believe, there was no reason to apply the knee longer than to get him restrained. If they had merely secured and processed him he’d be looking at a fine for passing a counterfeit bill (I read that’s what started all this, if not feel free to inform).

    Dem Governor, Dem Mayor, Dem City Council, Dem Senator who failed to prosecute in the past when she was DA.

    Only thing to do is riot and blame Trump and the American way of life.
    _

    harkin (8cfa8b)

  8. “ A further question is. did he shows signs, while this was going on. that his life was in danger.”

    I am told he said he couldn’t breathe, is that admissible?
    _

    harkin (8cfa8b)

  9. 8. Whether that is admissible or not is for a judge to decide. I would certainly think so, but IANAL. If it is admissible, it is up to the jury to then decide if Chauvin’s subsequent actions constitute reckless disregard for Floyd’s life.

    Gryph (08c844)

  10. IMO it doesn’t matter which side you believe, there was no reason to apply the knee longer than to get him restrained.

    I agree.

    felipe (023cc9)

  11. IMO it doesn’t matter which side you believe, there was no reason to apply the knee longer than to get him restrained. If they had merely secured and processed him he’d be looking at a fine for passing a counterfeit bill (I read that’s what started all this, if not feel free to inform).

    harkin (8cfa8b) — 6/1/2020 @ 3:02 pm

    This is what I have a real fundamental problem with. By the standards of minimal necessary force for restraint, it seems self-evident that Chauvin went overboard and started swimming away from the metaphorical boat if you will. I could see nothing in that video that suggested to me that ~9 minutes of having Chavin’s knee on Floyd’s throat was necessary. It was certainly gratuitous enough for the chief of police to decide Chauvin and his buddies-in-blue weren’t fit to remain cops.

    BUT…

    The question still remains, does this constitute reckless disregard for Floyd’s life such that Chauvin is guilty of 3rd-degree murder? I must confess I’m a little torn. Maybe I’d make a good juror in this case because I’m just not sure.

    Gryph (08c844)

  12. Yes, there really are people who think this is a new thing.

    Our side used to tell the truth.

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. Everyone in this thread.

    Look up Dr. Michael Baden.

    He was the guy attorney Crump used to independently conduct the autopsy of Michael Brown during the Ferguson, MO ordeal.

    This. Guy. Is. A. (insert cuss word). Hack!

    He owns a huge share of the unrest that occurred in Ferguson due to the lie that Brown had his “hands up and said don’t shoot”.

    So, I wouldn’t put any stock on Dr. Baden’s analysis.

    whembly (c30c83)

  14. “ A further question is. did he shows signs, while this was going on. that his life was in danger.”

    How is an unresponsive person supposed to show anything, much less that his life was in danger? It is an unreasonable expectation. But I know what you mean. Yes, there were the two most obvious signs.

    First, he was unresponsive, which caused at least one of the officers to check for a pulse.
    Second, there was no pulse. At this point it became a reckless disregard for the man’s condition.

    felipe (023cc9)

  15. I said this in the open thread, but if Wilson-Baden are hired guns for the victim’s family, then you can’t call their autopsy “independent”, and this doesn’t mean that the results from the Hennepin County ME are without bias. There should be an actual independent examination to settle the matter.

    Paul Montagu (c5b2c2)

  16. Again, there is no excuse for what that cop did to Floyd. And no excuse for looting, violence, destruction of property and/or livelihoods.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  17. Those other officers were fricking pathetic, hope they go down.

    mg (8cbc69)

  18. It’s not about George Floyd anymore.

    In any event, the prosecution will need to prove the cause of death beyond a reasonable doubt at trial. The judge and jury are not required to believe either the ME or the family pathologists.

    nk (1d9030)

  19. “I will deploy the United States military to swiftly solve the problem…” – President Donald J. Trump 6/1/20

    Hey! Hey! Trump, Donald J.: how many kids have you killed today?!?!
    Hey! Hey! Trump, Donald J.: how many kids have you killed today?!?!
    Hey! Hey! Trump, Donald J.: how many kids have you killed today?!?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. Hey! Hey! Trump, Donald J.: how many kids have you killed today?!?!

    You must be so proud!

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. I know I posted about the Insurrection Act last week, with this announcement today, did he actually invoke it, or did he just talk about doing it?

    Washington DC doesn’t need the invocation to bring in the military, and the president can request it. The key thing in the Insurrection Act is:

    Whenever there is an insurrection in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into Federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection.

    BTW, he’s holding up a bible like it’s the first time he’s seen a book, not the good book, any book. His hands are smoking, I wonder why that is…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  22. Yeah, Klink… the way he’s holding the Good Book is the story here, not the attempts to destroy the house of worship.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  23. My question is, did Floyd even know the $20 bill was counterfeit? That is what instigated the confrontation and its fatal conclusion.

    I mean, the bill was an obvious forgery and clearly evident fake. But even that requires a printing press, plates, paper, ink. Floyd doesn’t appear to be someone with the means or wherewithal to produce counterfeit $20 bills. So clearly someone passed it to him, without his knowledge, and he thought it was real.

    He certainly didn’t get it from a bank or store. Any teller or clerk would have noticed it was fake. In fact, the store clerk did notice immediately.

    Why then go through with the transaction? Simply, tell the customer this is a counterfeit bill and cannot be accepted. But the clerk did go through with the transaction and accepted the bill, then called the police after he left the store.

    So when the police arrived, Floyd thought he had nothing wrong. All he did was buy some cigarettes. Hence, his resistance to arrest.

    Early video footage show signs of a struggle getting him into the police car. Later video shows him taken out of the car and thrown to the ground to be subdued and handcuffed.

    The officers involved clearly used excessive force–two on his back, one with a knee on his neck. In their minds, he was a big black criminal passing phony money around.

    He died as a result. The medical examiner’s final report better be conclusive, beause this is a highly volatile case. From what I’ve seen, the subduing officers smotherd him, and the cause of death was asphyxia.

    Now, is that deliberate or negligent homicide? Or depraved indifference to human life?

    That’s for the courts to decide. This is the highest profile case in the world right now. And it doesn’t hinge on the medical examiner’s report or an independent autopsy. There’s a lot of other evidence to consider, such as multiple complaints of harassment and brutlity against two of the officers involved.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  24. What are “potential intoxicants” and where can I find them?

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  25. As Trump stands outside St. John’s church:

    Reporter: “Is that your Bible?”
    Trump: “It’s a Bible.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. History shows that It is very hard to get Liberty, Truth or Justice – in a hurry.
    #16 states, “Again, there is no excuse for what that cop did to Floyd.
    And no excuse for looting, violence, destruction of property and/or livelihoods.”

    From what we have seen, in some of the videos, Officer Chauvin’s knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for the prolonged time appears very, very, troubling (maybe much worse), especially because Floyd was apparently restrained (and there are 3 other officers there assisting) and you can hear Floyd’s repeated pleas that he cannot breathe.

    However, What exactly did that cop do? We do not have all the facts yet. We have yet to hear from
    Chauvin or the other officers. If look bad for all of them, however under our legal system they are
    presumed innocent and they have the right to a fair trial. There have been claims that Chauvin had his hands in his pockets and initially that appears so; however on closer look at other videos, that is not true, as he in fact had black gloves on his hand, which blend in with his dark trousers. There has been information that Floyd had been drinking and that he had several times resisted the officers attempts to put him in the squad car. Further, there is information that under that police agency’s training/use of force manual, that knee procedure is allowed by that agency – but with caution. So far, that presumption of innocence – has been not only ignored – but thrown away. Almost everywhere – including this site. (Recall George Zimmerman [Trayvon Martin]; Officer Darren Wilson [Michael Brown]; the several Baltimore PD officers [Freddie Gray]; confirmation hearing of Justice Brent Kavanaugh; etc.)

    Officer Chauvin has been arrested. Officer Chauvin has been charged. It appears that too many want him convicted without a trial. What’s the hurry?

    I concur that there is no excuse for looting, violence, destruction of property and/or livelihoods. I wonder where are our so called leaders?
    _____________________________________________
    #13 wrote, ‘Everyone in this thread. Look up Dr. Michael Baden.
    He was the guy attorney Crump used to independently conduct the autopsy
    of Michael Brown during the Ferguson, MO ordeal.
    This. Guy. Is. A. (insert cuss word). Hack!
    He owns a huge share of the unrest that occurred in Ferguson due to the lie
    that Brown had his “hands up and said don’t shoot”.
    So, I wouldn’t put any stock on Dr. Baden’s analysis.’

    Clearly, there are some potential big differences in the two (2) preliminary medical autopsies. Well, that is why we need to properly investigate, find out exactly what in fact happened, why it happened and if the facts are still in conflict, maybe it will require a trial. What’s the hurry?

    In that light, one might want to read the Joel Gilbert book or watch his movie THE TRAYVON HOAX: Unmasking The Witness Fraud That Divided America. https://www.thetrayvonhoax.com/
    You can watch the entire mover for FREE! Mr. Crump was the Martin family attorney there.

    Liberty, Truth & Justice require constant vigilance. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (a1521c)

  27. This gun for hire’s track record isn’t good and it doesn’t appear he made his judgment from an actual examination of the body.

    That said, it’s clear that this death’s proximate cause is the willful acts of the police and i hope an independent jury finds accordingly.

    NJRob (35827d)

  28. What are “potential intoxicants” and where can I find them?

    Parker’s Heritage 8th Edition was potential until 5 minutes ago, now it is an actual intoxicant. Pretty great, not as good as the 4th Edition wheated.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  29. I’ve updated the post with a notice of Hennepin County’s ME report.

    Dana (0feb77)

  30. Fentanyl and meth are going to make this a difficult case. Glad I’m not on the jury.

    NJRob (35827d)

  31. I think we all knew this, but it doesn’t excuse a damn thing. Two wrongs don’t make a right and 43,289 don’t either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  32. Reporter: “Is that your Bible?”
    Trump: “It’s a Bible.”

    You’re right, Dave, the reporter was an ass.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. A Time for Choosing: America or Trump?

    So, Dave, a guy brings the Confederate battle flag to a rally and this is news? Not only is he possibly a Moby, but how many anti-Trump rallies do you see the hammer and sickle at? Does that mean that all Trump opponents are Marxists? Or are those just altRight agitators trying to make the peaceful protesters look bad?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. Yeah, Klink… the way he’s holding the Good Book is the story here, not the attempts to destroy the house of worship.

    It’s OK to some if a church is burned if Trump is inside.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. So, Dave, a guy brings the Confederate battle flag to a rally and this is news?

    It’s reprehensible. It makes me glad there’s a first amendment so we can see what these people are really about.

    how many anti-Trump rallies do you see the hammer and sickle at?

    Also reprehensible. too many people are using this situation to whatabout. A cop choking a guy to death with his knee is bad. Looting a TV is bad. Those concepts stand on their own. One does not justify or excuse the other.

    Does that mean that all

    No. Next question.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  36. In my state, “cardiopulmonary arrest” is not a permitted final diagnosis on a death certificate since that is what happens to everyone. “Neck compression” would the diagnosis. If you die due to your heart stopping due to blood loss due to being stabbed, your cause of death is stabbing. The Hennepin County coroner said that the manner of death was homicide, and the cause of death was neck compression. The legal system has to decide if the homicide was a crime. That’s what the justice system is for. Notice that I didn’t capitalize “justice system.” Real Justice does not come from human beings; we can only try to come close to that as a goal.

    Fred (79d82a)

  37. “It’s OK to some if a church is burned if Trump is inside.”

    Lol at catching Trump inside a church.

    Davethulhu (55869f)

  38. “cardiopulmonary arrest”

    Is that what they’re calling that type of arrest?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. Hypocrisy is a step up for Trump. As for blasphemy, that church has a woman bishop so let’s not even look there.

    nk (1d9030)

  40. Dr. Michael Baden is a expert for hire from way, way back, not just the Michael Brown case.

    He was a defense witness for O.J. Simpson … I think O. J. Simpson may even have lined him up in advance – that he was going to have him say, if, as he originally intended, the body of Nicole Brown was not discovered until the next morning, O. J. Simpson was going to have Dr, Michael Baden or somebody else like him, say that she wasn’t killed until he was aboard the plane. Isn’t this obvious? Killing her was hardly a spur of the moment decision. That’s why the bloody clothes all disappeared – except for two gloves. That’s why he didn’t use any of his guns (balilstics you know) but instead a knife. That’s why the timeline was so tight.

    I don’t say tat O. J. Simpson had this part figured out all by himself – his co-conspirators, who told him to kill his ex-wife so that the (possible) IRS investigation into selling his signature but not reporting the income would be cut short. They were the ones who worked this out. And one of them, Robert Kardashian, had to take an active role – getting the Bronco into a car wash and driving it back later. It wasn’t there when OJ went to the airport. Allan Park, the limo driver, didn’t just overlook it. It wasn’t there then.

    So here in this case, he says the other police officers there contributed directly, and not just by inaction, to George Floyd’s death.

    With Jeffrey Epstein he said his death wasn’t a suicide

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  41. That’s a special catnip for the Greek Orthodox…one of my coworkers and good work friends, also GO, has contempt for this other coworker guy because that guy”s mom is “a priestess” (also an episcopalian pastor).

    urbanleftbehind (f1f6b4)

  42. 25. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/1/2020 @ 5:13 pm

    Why then go through with the transaction? Simply, tell the customer this is a counterfeit bill and cannot be accepted. But the clerk did go through with the transaction and accepted the bill, then called the police after he left the store.

    The clerk ddn;t actually look at the bill until after George Floyd had walked out of the store. He followed him, and asked for the cigarettes back, but Floyd wouldn’t give it back. He said he reported the bill passing to the police because that was protocol. It seems like there was some confusion in initial reports. It was first reported that he had maybe passed a bad check. Maybe that’s in the same section of the penal code?

    So when the police arrived, Floyd thought he had nothing wrong. All he did was buy some cigarettes. Hence, his resistance to arrest.

    The clerk might not even have shown him the couterfeit bill.

    Early video footage show signs of a struggle getting him into the police car. Later video shows him taken out of the car and thrown to the ground to be subdued and handcuffed.

    so they had him in the car, and then took him out?

    Now, is that deliberate or negligent homicide? Or depraved indifference to human life?

    Depraved indifference is stronger than negligence and it’s at leas depraved indifference.

    I’m wondering about this:

    The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.

    Could the police officer have *known* this would be the case? Was there some scuttlebutt among police that, if you dd things a certain way, a person could choke someone else without leaving signs detectable on autopsy that would reveal it?

    More, why did he continue to keep his foot on him? If his intention was merely to render him unconscious, you;d expect him to stop after at most 30 seconds.

    You have the question what was the endgame that policeman had in mind??

    Surely he was not going to stay like that all night. Did he therefore intentionally kill him? But would he do it on camera? Was he so confident that the blue wall and other civil servants would protect him?

    Another interesting fact: His wife filed for divorce, while she didn’t after other incidents. Was there some reason for her to suspect he had killed George Floyd on purpose? Like maybe no kind of remorse, or even shock, at what he had done?

    Maybe something else? Did he maybe even confess to her?

    Or did he tell her one thing on Monday night and then, after the whole case got a lot of publicity, did she discover that he had lied to her?

    Was she, although, for the moment at least, still on good terms with him, now in fear of her own life? He had killed George Floyd without a weapon other than his shoe.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  43. Here’s how it started, after the police were when George Floyd refused to give back the cigarettes and possibly his change, after the store clerk noticed a little late that a $20 bill was counterfeit: (has it been verified by the way, that the bill was counterfeit? The clerk told a reporter ink was running off of it)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8370537/Minneapolis-police-officer-Derek-Chavin-taken-custody.html

    ….Officers Lane and Kueng arrived on the scene first after responding to a 911 call of a man using a counterfeit $20 bill to buy goods from Cup Foods Deli.

    They were directed to Floyd’s car around the corner from the store where Floyd was sat in the driver’s seat, a man was sat in the passenger seat and a woman in the back seat, the complaint states.

    It details that Lane pulled his gun on Floyd before putting it away when Floyd showed his empty hands on the steering wheel of the car.

    [Floyd had been arrested before many times in Texas, so he knew what to do]

    Lane then pulled Floyd from the car and handcuffed him. The complaint states that Floyd ‘actively resisted’ being handcuffed but then became compliant and walked with the cop to the sidewalk where he sat for two minutes and had a conversation with him.

    Lane and Kueng then tried to walk Floyd to their squad car but Floyd ‘stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic’, the complaint says.

    Chauvin and Thoa arrived on the scene and the four officers tried to get Floyd into the squad car, it states, adding that Floyd ‘struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still’.

    Floyd began telling the officers he could not breathe while standing outside the car, the report states.

    [In other words, before hi neck or chest was touched. Perhaps a panic attack, or PTSD. He had sent a number of years in jail for an armed robbery in 2007.]

    Chauvin then tried to get Floyd into the passenger side of the car before pulling him out of the car moments later.

    [They couldn’t quite get him to sit. But he was no threat.]

    My. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed. Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s back and Lane held his legs. The defendant placed his left knee in the area of Mr. Floyd’s head and neck,’ it reads.

    Floyd is heard saying ‘I can’t breathe’, ‘Mama’ and ‘please’ multiple times but Chauvin, Kueng and Lane maintain their positions on his body and tell him ‘You are talking fine’, the report notes.

    And things stayed that way until he was dead.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  44. Does anybody recall Baden’s testimony for Phil Spector? He claimed Lana Clarkson “spit up” the blood on Spector’s shirt after “shooting herself.” I’m sure it was just a coincidence Baden’s wife was one of Spector’s attorneys.

    Re O.J. Simpson, Baden didn’t just give an “expert” opinion, he was an aggressive advocate for Simpson; appearing at press conferences, every TV show that would have him, etc. Simpson’s blood at the murder scene (which even Scheck could never explain away) and both victims’ blood in Simpson’s car didn’t mean a thing to The Great Michael Baden.

    DN (095be6)

  45. 44. SF: He had killed George Floyd without a weapon other than his shoe.

    Other than his feet. One knee presed agant his neck, and the other leg lifted up so that his full weight fell on that spot. Two other policemen were helping to hold Floyd down, and he also was handcuffed.

    Sammy Finkelman (3015b5)


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