Patterico's Pontifications

4/22/2020

Paging Dr. Trump: NIH Panel Recommends Against Drug Combo President Touted For COVID-19

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:58 am



[guest post by Dana]

In spite of Trump’s repeated promotion for the use of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to combat coronavirus, members of the COVID-19 Treatment Panel have recommended against use of the combination of drugs:

A panel of experts convened by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases recommends against doctors using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of COVID-19 patients because of potential toxicities.

“The combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was associated with QTc prolongation in patients with COVID-19,” the panel said.

QTc prolongation increases the risk of sudden cardiac death.

The panel also addressed usage of the two drugs by themselves:

As for using the use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine alone, the panel said there was “insufficient clinical data to recommend either for or against.” It reached the same conclusion about the drug remdesivir.

The panel of medical experts, with clinical experience and expertise in patient management, clinical science, and/or development of treatment guidelines, will not make recommendations about a drug’s use if strong scientific evidence is lacking to make a firm conclusion one way or the other:

“It’s all based on the data,” said panel member Dr. Susan Swindells, a professor in the department of internal medicine at the University of Nebraska College of Medine. “We just plowed through everything that was, and apart from supportive care, there wasn’t anything that was working terribly well.”

The panel also concluded that there was insufficient evidence to recommend any kind of treatment either to prevent infection with the coronavirus or to prevent the progression of symptoms in those who are already infectious. That recommendation could change based on clinical trials presently underway.

–Dana

UPDATE BY PATTERICO:

88 Responses to “Paging Dr. Trump: NIH Panel Recommends Against Drug Combo President Touted For COVID-19”

  1. The report notes that the panel will update guidelines as soon as new results become available, and that there might be an update about remdesivir very soon.

    Dana (0feb77)

  2. mr president trump had a brother who taught nuclear physics at mit which is not harvard

    his genes are smarter than any expert

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. Dana… this is not new information.

    I don’t have the literature in front of me, but the NIH has always took that position. (or in some cases, stated not enough information to make a determination)

    You’ll notice it’s the same for Remdesivir and they would even say the same thing for the platelet antibody therapy simply because neither has gone through the rigorous trials.

    The jury is still out on these therapies and each one as enough anecdotal evidence that warrants additional trials.

    At my institution, our providers are still prescribing hydroxychloroquine with the understanding of the risks involved, as well as documenting the off-label uses. From what I gather, most of the time it’s prescribed with patients in real risk of being intubated.

    When Trump was touting the possible effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine… he wasn’t trying to be Dr. Trump. Trump was touting it to provide hope in these trying times.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  4. that’s right, mr. dave

    all those hoity-toity globalist third-world order zionist catholic masonic open border leftist elitists think they’re so smart

    but you can’t spell doctor without a “d” and an “o” and a “t” and an “r” and mr. president donald trump has all those letters

    nk (1d9030)

  5. i love him so much

    mr. trump i mean

    nobody has ever made america great again like he has

    nk (1d9030)

  6. he wasn’t trying to be Dr. Trump. Trump was touting it to provide hope in these trying times.

    I disagree, whembly, simply for the fact that he is the President of the United States, not an infectious disease expert, virologist, epidemiologist, MD, or research scientist. He is an average joe in the most powerful seat in the world, pushing for usage of the drugs for treatment. What he says matters. Whether it’s false or misleading (which Fauci confirmed it was in this case) or true, it all matters. If he truly wanted to safely provide hope in these trying times, he could have not promoted the drugs – which he did – and simply said that he hoped researchers and scientists would be able to find something that would be safe and effective in combatting coronavirus and defer to the experts for anything more than that. Instead, he had to push the envelope, be misleading, and play doctor.

    Of course, we are discussing motives here, and at the end of the day, only God knows a man’s heart. But. We know from the historical record that Trump likes to be seen as the smartest man in the room, is given to exaggeration and telling fibs, and is self-promoting whenever he’s at the mic, so…

    Dana (0feb77)

  7. That panel got the answer they wanted.

    It’s one thing to say maybe it’s not effective, but where do they come on warning about dangerous side effects?

    Unless maybe they want to say it’s aside effect n people with Covid-19 (or SARS2)

    Now the truth is:

    The QTc prolongation comes from the azithromycin alone, and not from the hydroxychloroquine.

    I just checked and found it right away.

    https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/myth-busting-azithromycin-does-not-cause-torsade-de-pointes-or-increase-mortality

    July 27, 2015 by Josh Farkas ..

    …In 2012 a NEJM article by Ray et al. reported a correlation between azithromycin and cardiovascular death. This received extensive press and ultimately led the FDA to issue a drug safety communication warning about the risk of QT prolongation and torsade de pointes….Antibiotics generally cause QT-prolongation and sudden death by blocking the hERG potassium channel and thus slowing cardiac repolarization…Azithromycin appears to cause a small prolongation of QTc, averaging ~10ms. Unfortunately the best study of this was performed by Pfizer and never published (it is briefly described in the package insert). One study failed to detect any change in QT intervals at all (Shin 2014).

    More importantly, not all QT prolongation is created equal…

    (this article is a defense of azithromycin. I didn’t look into that, but the point is, this is associated with
    azithromycin and not hydroxychloroquine.

    Now I don’t know what that antibiotic is doing there. It was added by that person (quack?) in France.

    There’s no real logical reason for it (except to guard against secondary infections – not a big problem usually)

    Most doctors in the United States who give hydroxychloroquine are not combining them. I think this is a commonly accepted fact, from everything I’ve read.

    This Treatment Panel is engaged in malicious anti-hydroxychloroquine propaganda, and our independent media didn’t catch what was wrong here, but just repeats nonsense. (f that is supposed to prove that
    hydroxychloroquine can cause these heart problems.

    In the meantime there are other things, like the anti-viral mixture Kaletra,or even just high dose Vitamin C. And of course antibodies, which can only be gotten in massive quantitites by synthetic means.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  8. The panel of medical experts, with clinical experience and expertise in patient management, clinical science, and/or development of treatment guidelines,

    What are their motives?

    Look at them:

    As for using the use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine alone, the panel said there was “insufficient clinical data to recommend either for or against.” It reached the same conclusion about the drug remdesivir.

    What was the whole purpose of evaluating a rarely used combination.

    Why is a caveat that the effect could (and that’s understating it) be entirely due to the azithromycin alone missing from this??

    Propaganda.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  9. I agree with Sammy. Who you gonna believe? President Trump or some “experts”? Everybody! Show your faith in President Trump by demanding a hydroxychloroquine prescription from your doctor! Do it today! To say “no” to President Trump is to say “no” to God.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. The only thing that Doa;d Trump did wrong is that he jumped on the hydroxychloroquine and didn;t lok for other things too.

    And then he atarted overselling it a bit.

    It is still better than taking the opposite tack.

    This is an epidemic – you can’t leave the drug approval people to their own devices. Actually, the whole system needs to be changed and has needed to be changed for literally decades.

    Unfortunately, then the pushback seems to have stopped him from looking for more.

    He interfered in other ways too – but not enough.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  11. @Dana

    Instead, he had to push the envelope, be misleading, and play doctor.

    I’ve watched these press briefings near religiously when I can and I disagree with your description here. I watched it in realtime.

    By and large, he was trying to present a hopeful message there. You *know* he didn’t pull that drug out of his ass…SOMEONE had to inform him of that.

    I can’t help to think that your angst about this is largely driven by talking heads and news op-ed looking for things to criticize Trump over, rather than objectively assessing the situation in that moment of time.

    Look. I know you don’t like Trump and don’t plan on voting for him. I’m not going to disabuse you of that notion, and we can reasonably disagree with whether or not he should of touted that drug. However, he should be recognized that at least he’s trying to manage this ordeal in good faith…warts and all.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  12. To say “no” to President Trump is to say “no” to God.

    its much worse than that

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. President Trump’s contrarianism here does some good, and he wasn’t alone.

    He also tells deliberate lies in places.

    You have to evaluate each thing on its own.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  14. whembly (fd57f6) — 4/22/2020 @ 8:20 am

    . You *know* he didn’t pull that drug out of his ass…SOMEONE had to inform him of that.

    Trump always looks for things endorsed by more than one or two souurces.

    Except for things cooked p by his campaign team. You know, like the liberateVrginia campaign, oor the false description of what was the money pot that Harvard University got money from.

    Hydroxychloroquine didn’t come from Stephen Miller, or even Sean Hannity.

    And you want to know something?

    Trump would probably like to actually be right (I hope)

    Now is political associates – they’re better at inventing stupid lies and pretending to be right.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  15. The people around Trump seem to find a need to praise him.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  16. @ whembly,

    I can’t help to think that your angst about this is largely driven by talking heads and news op-ed looking for things to criticize Trump over, rather than objectively assessing the situation in that moment of time.

    Look. I know you don’t like Trump and don’t plan on voting for him. I’m not going to disabuse you of that notion, and we can reasonably disagree with whether or not he should of touted that drug. However, he should be recognized that at least he’s trying to manage this ordeal in good faith…warts and all.

    Please give me more credit than saying my “angst” is driven by talking heads and op-eds, whembly. I can read, think, reason, and analyze by myself, and, even draw my own conclusions without having to see what someone else thinks. And if you are familiar with my writing, I am an equal-opportunity critic of politicians and pundits on both sides of the political aisle. It makes no difference to me.

    I don’t know how one measures objectivity in this day and age, other than not having a dog in the fight. I cannot give Trump the benefit of the doubt because he has demonstrated that he doesn’t deserve it. He has a record of lies, misleading statements, and deflection when confronted with truth. This is why I have repeatedly warned, ever since he became the president, that he must stop tweeting and stop rambling during speeches because words matter and what he says not only just matters, but matters greatly because of the powerful position and platform he maintains.

    You are free to give him the benefit of the doubt, of course. I simply choose not to based on his own words and actions.

    Dana (0feb77)

  17. ….he wasn’t trying to be Dr. Trump. Trump was touting it to provide hope in these trying times.
    He was doing his Dr. Oz/”Dr.” Phil imitation.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  18. (Trump) also tells deliberate lies in places.

    In places??? Virtually every time he opens his mouth.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  19. Apparently HCQ is a drug used for long-TERM treatment of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. The number of people who have those is 2.7 million in the US. Many are on HCQ for years. The question is how many of those patients have gotten Chicom Flu? All one needs till do is look at their med records. Why has no one done this?

    John W. Cunningham (6a63d7)

  20. ….he wasn’t trying to be Dr. Trump. Trump was touting it to provide hope in these trying times.

    Like Churchill during Dunkirk saying to the Brits “all the boys are coming home!”

    Jeeeeeze…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  21. Tom Elliott
    @tomselliott
    ·
    Veterans Affairs’ Robert Wilkie on yesterday’s hydroxychloroquine study: “That’s an observational study. It’s not a clinical study … We know the drug has been working on middle-age and younger veterans. And the gov of NY was just in the Oval Office yesterday asking for more

    _

    harkin (c72ccb)

  22. Trump gambled that this drug would be a miracle cure, and when that worked the natural controversy he brings to everything would make his critics look bad for urging more caution.

    He figured that if it worked, anyone pointing out the danger in this approach would look bad in a crisis. And now that it failed he’s just the old optimist. Trump gets to have it both ways. The expert. The innocent fool.

    Dustin (c56600)

  23. Fox News Quietly Backs Away From Hyping Trump’s Coronavirus ‘Miracle Drug’
    After weeks of incessantly hyping an unproven anti-malarial drug as a potential miracle cure for the coronavirus, Fox News has seemingly ditched its nearly round-the-clock promotion of hydroxychloroquine.

    Unsurprisingly, the change in tone coincided with President Donald Trump’s own retreat from touting the drug, and comes as multiple studies have shown no benefit to COVID-19 patients.

    Beginning in mid-to-late March and ramping up through the first two weeks of April, the president repeatedly lauded hydroxychloroquine …..

    As is often the case with the cable-news obsessed president, Trump only began promoting the malaria drug as a miracle cure after his favorite Fox opinion hosts openly touted it on-air and in private meetings with him. According to Media Matters for America, a liberal media watchdog, between March 23 and April 6, Fox hosts and guests lauded hydroxychloroquine almost 300 times.
    …..
    But by mid-April, however, both Trump and his Fox News allies began to clam up on the drug.
    …..
    Since then, and as several small studies showed no benefit to hydroxychloroquine, the president has been mum on the drug. Even on his Twitter account, which previously featured dozens of boasts about the drug, Trump has noticeably slowed down. Outside of a Saturday retweet of a story crediting him with taking a “gamble” on the drug, the president hasn’t tweeted about the drug in nearly two weeks.

    And the president’s relative silence has been mirrored by Fox.

    Since April 15, hydroxychloroquine has been mentioned on Fox News and its sister network, Fox Business Network, a total of 51 times. The week before that, the drug was mentioned 138 times. During the first week of April, there were at least 194 mentions between the two channels.

    Nowhere has the pivot been more noticeable than during Fox News’ primetime hours. The network’s three weeknight stars—Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Laura Ingraham—were among Fox’s loudest hydroxychloroquine boosters until the president’s pivot. Ingraham, for instance, touted the drug’s “Lazarus”-like resurrective effects on coronavirus sufferers and privately met with Trump at the White House to further sell him on the drug.

    Although Ingraham spent two full weeks touting the drug on her show every night, she barely mentioned it last week, and has done so only once since last Wednesday.

    The virtual blackout has been even more stark with the network’s two other biggest primetime hosts. Carlson, who helped kick off the president’s hydroxychloroquine craze by hosting a lawyer last month trumpeting the questionable French study, has only mentioned the drug once in passing over the past 10 days—and only as a way to discuss remdesivir. Such a dropoff is stunning: Like Ingraham, the Tucker Carlson Tonight host spent the first two weeks of April touting the drug in all of his broadcasts except one.

    Hannity, meanwhile, had been a loud and proud promoter of the drug, hosting Dr. Mehmet Oz, an alleged “quack” celebrity doctor, on a near-nightly basis since mid-March to repeatedly push hydroxychloroquine. Throughout those broadcasts, Hannity praised Oz’s work and, in turn, the TV doc touted the work of Didier Raoult, the doctor behind the questionable French studies.

    Like his colleagues, Hannity was a persistent cheerleader for the drug during the first two weeks of April. Since then, however, he has only mentioned the drug three times, with the last mention being nearly a week ago. Furthermore, after being a routine fixture on the show, Dr. Oz hasn’t appeared on Hannity’s program since April 14.
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  24. Trump gets to have it both ways.

    He gets to have it both ways because people refuse to hold him accountable. His supporters don’t seem to understand that if they hold his feet to the fire, he will either implode, or more likely stop stepping in the doo less often, and make an effort to restrain himself from gong off the rails. of course, because he can do no wrong in their eyes, they don’t see the need to hold him accountable. What a dangerous thing it is to not understand that everyone of our elected officials have feet of clay.

    Dana (0feb77)

  25. Despite scattered protests, most Americans support shelter-in-place, Reuters/Ipsos poll shows

    A bipartisan majority of Americans said they want to continue to shelter in place to protect themselves from the coronavirus, despite the impact to the economy, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll that also showed a decline in approval of Trump’s response to the pandemic.

    The poll, released Tuesday, suggested that only a minority of Americans agree with the recent flare-up of protests against social-distancing initiatives. Their numbers have been growing over the past few weeks, however, mostly among Republicans.

    Overall, in the national online poll from April 15-21, 72% of adults in the United States said people should stay at home ‘until the doctors and public health officials say it is safe.’ That included 88% of Democrats, 55% of Republicans, and seven in 10 independents.

    It also found that 45% of Republicans said stay-at-home orders should be lifted to get the economy going again, up from 24% of Republicans who said the same thing in a similar poll that ran March 30-31.
    ….
    Among U.S. adults, 42% said they approved of Trump’s performance in office, while 52% said they disapproved. The president’s overall popularity has been about the same for more than a year. When asked specifically about Trump’s handling of the coronavirus crisis, 44% approved and 52% disapproved, which is an 8-point drop in net approval since last week and a 13-point drop from last month.
    …….

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  26. What a dangerous thing it is to not understand that everyone of our elected officials have feet of clay.

    Dana (0feb77) — 4/22/2020 @ 9:13 am

    This is an interesting point. Trump fires a lot of staff who don’t see his great glory, so he doesn’t necessarily see it, but 2020 will be the year the USA goes blue to an extent that overwhelms anything Trump got his supporters. And it didn’t need to be like that.

    Dustin (c56600)

  27. Trump’s Coronavirus Response May Be Turning Off Older Voters

    Two of the political data points that currently spell bad news for Donald Trump are steadily worsening public assessments of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and Joe Biden’s strong position among voters over 65, who have leaned Republican in every presidential election since 1996. Since the elderly as a whole are more vulnerable than younger cohorts to a lethal dose of COVID-19 and since Trump at first minimized the threat and later expressed impatience with measures to arrest it, the obvious question is whether the one poll finding has anything to do with the other. Is Trump losing older voters because he seems callous toward their fears?

    Morning Consult definitely has evidence that seniors are souring on Trump’s handling of the coronavirus, particularly now that he’s fretting so much over the economy:

    By a nearly 6-to-1 margin, people ages 65 and older say it’s more important for the government to address the spread of coronavirus than it is to focus on economic goals. And as President Donald Trump increasingly signals interest in prioritizing the economy, America’s senior citizens are growing critical of his approach.

    In mid-March, this group approved of Trump’s handling of the outbreak at a higher rate than any other age group, with a net approval of +19. A month later, that level of support has dropped 20 points and is now lower than that of any age group other than 18-29-year-olds.

    Similarly, Quinnipiac shows seniors approving of Trump’s handling of the coronavirus by a 48/45 margin in early March but disapproving by a 52/45 margin in early April. Quinnipiac also shows Biden’s lead among seniors swelling from 49/46 in March to 54/41 in April, even though the Democrat’s overall lead drops from 11 to eight points.
    ……
    But any way you slice it, Trump is playing with fire in promoting a megastrategy for the pandemic that appears to make the safety of seniors a secondary concern, even as he agitates against allowing the robust voting-by-mail options that might make seniors feel safer in voting. His party needs to win seniors and needs them to vote at their typically high levels.
    ……

    Doesn’t Trump realize COVID-19 is killing his voters?

    ….Among voters ages 30 to 49, 51% supported Clinton and 40% favored Trump. Trump had an advantage among 50- to 64-year-old voters (51% to 45%) and those 65 and older (53% to 44%).

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  28. Sorry, if you believe that Trump was just “being hopeful” then your a fool. He didn’t say hopeful things. He, Fox Opinion, and OANN, and several apologists, hobbyists, and enthusiasts, with just as little actual knowledge as Trump; said it would work, and then pumped true fake news to justify it. You were wrong then, you are wrong now, and no amount of data is going to shake your faith in Trump apparently. Faith that is not backed up by any substance, not even hope. You were part of an effort that HAS COST LIVES.

    Did you own the libs well enough, was it worth it? You all should feel ashamed, but I doubt it, because I can read your words, in the last couple of hours.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  29. And the gov of NY was just in the Oval Office yesterday asking for more“

    He spoke about his conversation and his testing plan (and incidentally he also criticized Congress for taking baby steps) but I don’t think he said anything about that.

    He wanted more supplies for testing. New York can take responsibility for the labs he has said.

    Cuumo thanked Trump today for waiving the state’s usual 25% contribution to FEMA emergency funds.

    I’ll try to link to a transcript of today’s Cuomo coronavirus briefing later. Cuomo had some interesting observations to make (which he’s made repeatedly)

    The big scheme they have in mind in New York (working together with New Jersey and Connecticut) is try to trace every case and send every person who tests positive to hotels. (or those they can find)

    Cuomo wants to raise a “tracing army” and former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg, through Johns Hopkins which he funds, will arrange to design a system including training.

    De Blasio is first in the day, later comes Cuomo, after 11 am, and the last one – late afternoon is Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  30. @16

    @ whembly,
    I can’t help to think that your angst about this is largely driven by talking heads and news op-ed looking for things to criticize Trump over, rather than objectively assessing the situation in that moment of time.
    Look. I know you don’t like Trump and don’t plan on voting for him. I’m not going to disabuse you of that notion, and we can reasonably disagree with whether or not he should of touted that drug. However, he should be recognized that at least he’s trying to manage this ordeal in good faith…warts and all.

    Please give me more credit than saying my “angst” is driven by talking heads and op-eds, whembly.

    I do. That’s why I’m having a hard time with some of your posts. I apologize if I’m coming off as an arsehole.

    I can read, think, reason, and analyze by myself, and, even draw my own conclusions without having to see what someone else thinks. And if you are familiar with my writing, I am an equal-opportunity critic of politicians and pundits on both sides of the political aisle. It makes no difference to me.

    True and your articles are part of the reasons why I keep coming back to this forum.

    I don’t know how one measures objectivity in this day and age, other than not having a dog in the fight. I cannot give Trump the benefit of the doubt because he has demonstrated that he doesn’t deserve it. He has a record of lies, misleading statements, and deflection when confronted with truth. This is why I have repeatedly warned, ever since he became the president, that he must stop tweeting and stop rambling during speeches because words matter and what he says not only just matters, but matters greatly because of the powerful position and platform he maintains.

    Trump’s tweets has undoubtedly been a plus in his political career even though he drives me absolutely bonkers with it. I, too, wishes he loses his twitter account.

    However, in this moment in time, Trump and his team has been holding daily briefing and engaging the media during this pandemic. He’s not hiding here or taking the easy way out here. That’s not me giving him ‘the benefit of doubt’… it’s me recognizing that he’s trying to manage this in good faith and he should be applauded. That doesn’t mean

    You are free to give him the benefit of the doubt, of course. I simply choose not to based on his own words and actions.

    Dana (0feb77) — 4/22/2020 @ 8:51 am

    Fair enough.

    I think part of the friction here is how we both view what our Presidents should *be*.

    I see the POTUS temporarily hold a very powerful position who is ultimately nothing more than a politician seeking higher office for their own personal gain. (mostly as a status/ultimate career). Trump does not have personal qualities that *I* want to see in this office… but, most other Presidents has some qualities that disqualifies them from office in some other’s eyes. What makes Trump unique is that he wears his flaws on his sleeves and lets it fly. So, I’ve always try to separate the person from the office.

    That way, I can assess the policies of his administration w/o tainting it from how I personal view Trump.

    If folks cannot separate the man from the office… then everything he does is viewed through tainted lens, which is emblematic of the media’s reaction to what Trump does.

    You don’t have to respond, but I would simply ask yourself: Am I wearing these lens now?

    whembly (fd57f6)

  31. I discounted all of Trump’s made with bravado optimistic predictions, so they didn’t bother me.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  32. Las Vegas mayor: Reopen casinos, let the ones with the most infections then close

    Standing in front of an empty storefront along Main Street, Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman was beaming with optimism, believing that businesses would make it through the coronavirus pandemic.

    “We’re all together in this and we are going to come out with a bang,” she said earlier this month.

    On Tuesday, it became apparent what the independent mayor may have had in mind. She said she wants to reopen casinos, assuming that 100 percent of the population are carriers of the novel coronavirus.

    Let them, and visitors, gather and gamble, smoke in confined spaces, touch slot machines all day — and let the chips, and apparently the infections, fall where they may.

    “Assume everybody is a carrier,” the mayor said Tuesday on MSNBC. “And then you start from an even slate. And tell the people what to do. And let the businesses open and competition will destroy that business if, in fact, they become evident that they have disease, they’re closed down. It’s that simple.”

    The perspective left MSNBC host Katy Tur visibly dumbfounded. While Goodman said she took direction from Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s leading expert on infectious diseases, the mayor’s plan, which Tur described as “a modern-day survival of the fittest,” was in fact the exact opposite of what he advises.
    …..
    Nevada ranks 22nd among the states and the District of Columbia in cases per 100,000 people, with about 4,000 cases and 163 deaths from the virus. It has been under a mandatory state-imposed lockdown of all nonessential businesses. Goodman has voiced disdain for the lockdown order from Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak (D).

    Andy Slater

    @AndySlater
    Las Vegas mayor on coronavirus shutdown:

    “It makes no sense.”

    She calls for Vegas and all of Nevada to reopen.

    Although Trump noted over the weekend how Sisolak’s order resulted in “a big hotel” of his being shut down, he said he was “okay” with the governor’s lockdown. “But you could call that one either way,” Trump said at his Sunday coronavirus news briefing. Las Vegas is projected to receive as much as $160 million in stimulus funding, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

    Goodman’s perspective was not shared by Stephen Cloobeck, a former chairman and chief executive of Diamond Resorts International.

    “She has nothing to do with the strip, and we’re sick and tired of hearing this,” Cloobeck told MSNBC.

    Goodman’s office did not return a request for comment late Tuesday.

    In the MSNBC interview, Goodman said that “assuming” Tur was correct about the severity of the coronavirus data, the city’s ability to handle large crowds was reason enough for it to reopen.

    “We do deal in crowds and we have lived through all of these viruses, highly contagious diseases, and yet we have managed to continue to have wonderful conventions come up here,” she said.
    …….

    That’s a bet I won’t take.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  33. 19. John W. Cunningham (6a63d7) — 4/22/2020 @ 9:03 am

    Apparently HCQ is a drug used for long-TERM treatment of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. The number of people who have those is 2.7 million in the US. Many are on HCQ for years. The question is how many of those patients have gotten Chicom Flu? All one needs till do is look at their med records. Why has no one done this?

    I would guess, legal obstacles involving privacy and consent for human subjects. and this would fall into the category of medical research into human subjects, where consent is required. Even f nobody has any intention of handing out names.

    By the way, the place to look is nursing homes where you got a lot of people infected and as a lot of people taking these drugs.

    They almost stopped a group in Washington State from testing samples taken for flu for SARS2 and warning them.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-flu-study-coronavirus-testing-washington-2020-3

    Federal officials told a Seattle research lab not to test flu swab samples for coronavirus in January, before the outbreak took hold of Washington state, according to The New York Times.

    You know what they did?

    They broke the law:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html

    By Feb. 25, Dr. Chu and her colleagues could not bear to wait any longer. They began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval.

    What came back confirmed their worst fear. They quickly had a positive test from a local teenager with no recent travel history. The coronavirus had already established itself on American soil without anybody realizing it…

    Federal and state officials said the flu study could not be repurposed because it did not have explicit permission from research subjects; the labs were also not certified for clinical work. While acknowledging the ethical questions, Dr. Chu and others argued there should be more flexibility in an emergency during which so many lives could be lost. On Monday night,[March 9] state regulators told them to stop testing altogether….

    But the Seattle Flu Study illustrates how existing regulations and red tape — sometimes designed to protect privacy and health — have impeded the rapid rollout of testing nationally, while other countries ramped up much earlier and faster. Faced with a public health emergency on a scale potentially not seen in a century, the United States has not responded nimbly.

    All these regulatory people have feet of vlay. Correction: Saying they have feet of clay is giving the, too much credit.

    Also maybe many of the people who would need to approve this look at the records may be part of the anti-hydroxychloroquine slander campaign.

    The question is why isn’t anybody pushing for any perceived legal obstacles to be overridden

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  34. * Saying they have feet of clay is giving them too much credit.

    And those are the people that Trump is supposedly at fault for having a different opinion as to when it is worth going forward with things..

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  35. And it is supposed to be Trump’s fault for losing the moth of February.

    It’s Trump’s fault for having too much confidence in them and not digging in or having someone else dig in more.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  36. Birx says Georgia residents ‘can be very creative’ about getting tattoos and haircuts while social distancing

    Dr. Deborah Birx, one of the leading medical experts on President Trump’s coronavirus task force, tried to reconcile the controversial order by Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp reopening some businesses across the state with the task force recommendations that call for continued social distancing.

    Among the businesses that Kemp, a Republican and a strong supporter of President Trump, plans to allow to reopen on Friday are hair and nail salons and tattoo parlors.

    “I believe people in Atlanta would understand that if their cases are not going down that they need to continue to do everything that we said — social distancing, washing your hands, wearing a mask in public — so if there’s a way that people can social distance and do those things, then they can do those things. I don’t know how, but people are very creative,” Birx said.

    The standard for social distancing calls for staying a minimum of 6 feet from anyone who doesn’t live under the same roof.

    Kemp on Monday announced that, effective Friday, his state would would end the closing order for nail salons, massage therapists, bowling alleys and gyms. Church services can resume on Sunday and restaurants and movie theaters will be allowed to resume business next Monday. The closing orders went into effect on April 2.
    …..

    Kemp is willing to sacrifice his fellow Georgians to get back into Trump’s good graces after dissing him on his Senate appointment. And Birx is slowing going down on bended knee to kiss Trump’s ring and stay in his good graces.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  37. 29.

    New York Governor Andrew Cumo’s coronavirus brefing/press conference today – video only (plus news story.)

    https://wskg.org/news/live-governor-cuomos-daily-coronavirus-briefing/

    With ALLCAPS transcript derived from the closed captioning:

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?471430-1/governor-cuomo-warns-coronavirus-wave

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  38. That transcript is maybe not ready.

    But here is Cuomo from last night describing his conversation with President Trump.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?471419-1/york-governor-cuomo-briefing-white-house-meeting

    Somehow he manages to deal better with him than nearly everybody else. He can disagree but yet say there is a point to his argument.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  39. harkin @21. From a tweet by Tom Elliott (quoting Robert Wilkie?)

    . And the gov of NY was just in the Oval Office yesterday asking for more“ [hydroxychloroquine]

    Cuomo yesterday describing his conversation with President Trump that started at 4 pm:

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?471419-1/york-governor-cuomo-briefing-white-house-meeting

    00:28:49

    DID YOU DISCUSS HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE?

    00:28:56

    NO, NO.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  40. he wasn’t trying to be Dr. Trump. Trump was touting it to provide hope in these trying times.

    Laura Ingraham said it was a matter of Trump’s “instincts” being so “sharp” that he can see things missed by the “experts.”

    That was the somewhat refined version of Trump’s own declarations that he knows more than anyone else about all kinds of subjects. He obviously has a grossly inflated sense of his own genius (“I alone can fix it!”).

    His media boosters zealously promoted hydroxychloroquine because they wanted to be on the same page as Trump. They wanted to believe he held the key for saving us, and that all the experts were wrong.

    At least one person is dead as a direct result of having faith in Trump.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  41. 00:28:58

    WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE REPORTS TODAY THAT IT WAS NOT EFFECTIVE? YOU HAD SAID BEFORE THERE WAS SOME ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE —

    00:29:06

    I HAVE NOT EVEN LOOKED AT THEM. I HAVE BEEN RUNNING ALL DAY.

    00:29:10

    ANY INDICATION OF WHAT THE STATE RESULTS HAVE BEEN? THEY WERE BEING SENT TO WASHINGTON YESTERDAY.

    00:29:17

    I DO NOT KNOW, I DO NOT KNOW.

    Incidenttally, if it this report they are talking about nobody said it was ineffective.

    They said there cold be a side effect and it;s disputable whether tat is serious) to give azithromycin at the same time – and any fool who could look up side effects would know that would be because of the azithromycin.

    Why were they not clear about that??

    A. Because the report was propaganda. (which however obeyed the rule of not telling anything that could be said to be a lie)

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  42. Radegunda (39c35f) — 4/22/2020 @ 11:38 am

    At least one person is dead as a direct result of having faith in Trump.

    Oh you mean the person who took the fish tank cleaner while discounting the toxicity warning (thinking that was just government lies) and without noticing that it had other ingredients (maybe put in there only to discourage consumption? )

    Actually he took it because his wife gave it to him, I understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  43. 11… good luck with that.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  44. Donald Trump did promote the combination, early on, but, I assume, he got more advice, and stopped.

    The tweet is from March 21.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  45. Oh you mean the person who took the fish tank cleaner while discounting the toxicity warning (thinking that was just government lies) and without noticing that it had other ingredients (maybe put in there only to discourage consumption? )

    Actually he took it because his wife gave it to him, I understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1) — 4/22/2020 @ 11:45 am

    Indeed, to some of these guys, warning labels are just part of the conspiracy. He took it because he believed Trump. This was a dumb fight for Trump to pick, but he wanted naysayers saying a treatment might not work. He wanted to force them to be pessimistic in a crisis. It was a gamble. Had this drug worked, he would have been able to bash his critics. Of course, Trump lost the gamble, but his fans simply don’t care.

    Same yahoos telling us that pessimism about the drug is just hoping for a horrible outcome, because it’s all about the election, are telling us the same thing about the quarantine and Trump’s glorious economy. Suddenly, Trump went from being personally responsible for every black man with a job in America, to being a victim of the economy… completely nothing to do with it.

    These are the people who bought everything Trump’s said since he said he knew Obama was born in Kenya. So yes, they thought the warning label was just some silly nonsense. Same as how some say all those states warning us about risks is silly nonsense.

    Dustin (c56600)

  46. Donald Trump did promote the combination, early on, but, I assume, he got more advice, and stopped.

    The tweet is from March 21.

    And weeks after that, to you know, a few days ago.

    Donald Trump: (45:23)
    Furthermore, over the last seven days, my administration has deployed roughly 28 million doses of hydroxychloroquine from our national stockpile. We have millions of doses that we bought and many people are using it all over the country. And just recently a friend of mine told me he got better because of the use of that drug. So, who knows? And you combine it with Z-Pak, you combine it with zinc depending on your doctor’s recommendation, and he’s having some very good results. I’ll tell you, I think of anybody recommended it other than me, it would be used all over the place, to be honest with you. I think the fact that I recommended it, I probably set it back a lot. But it’s a lot of good things are happening with it, a lot of good tests.

    Sammy, I don’t know what you’re trying to prove.

    If it’s that this was always moronic, pushed by stupid people, with zero evidence of benefit, and lots of evidence of uselessness and harm, then great, you are being very successful.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  47. We know the drug has been working on middle-age and younger veterans. And the gov of NY was just in the Oval Office yesterday asking for more“
    _

    harkin (c72ccb) — 4/22/2020 @ 9:05 am

    I think the more we look at it, the drug is usually combined with z-pac. And z-pac on its own might work better.

    The need to pit cuomo against Trump is the hallmark of hacks in the administration, in my opinion. The need to phrase the medicinal value of this treatment in that way is highly suspect.

    Dustin (c56600)

  48. The need to pit cuomo against Trump is the hallmark of hacks in the administration

    Both Cuomo and Trump are basically NY street fighters, and both have big egos that need feeding. With that being said, I think Cuomo has exercised great restraint in his responses to Trump’s goading insults. It would be very difficult to just not lash out at the President of the United States intentionally humiliating you because he is so insecure that he needs to remind you that he is top dog. (This, whether you’re a reporter or a governor, etc.)

    Dana (0feb77)

  49. A doctor is now claiming that because he wanted more vetting done over Trump’s recommend treatment, he was removed from his federal post:

    The doctor who led the federal agency involved in developing a coronavirus vaccine said on Wednesday that he was removed from his post after he pressed for a rigorous vetting of a coronavirus treatment embraced by President Trump. The doctor said that science, not “politics and cronyism” must lead the way.

    Dr. Rick Bright was abruptly dismissed this week as the director of the Department of Health and Human Services’ Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, or BARDA, and as the deputy assistant secretary for preparedness and response.

    Instead, he was given a narrower job at the National Institutes of Health. “I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit,” he said in a statement to The Times’s Maggie Haberman.

    “I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science — not politics or cronyism — has to lead the way,” he said.

    There was no comment from the White House.

    A couple of things to note: This is not some anonymously sourced report. The doctor is named and quoted. Also, he was removed from his post for trying save lives by addressing the Covid-19 pandemic with safe and scientifically vetted solutions. What must be happening that a doctor holds a good and appropriate views and goals that will ultimately saves lives, gets pushed aside?

    Dana (0feb77)

  50. It would be very difficult to just not lash out at the President of the United States intentionally humiliating you because he is so insecure that he needs to remind you that he is top dog.

    And at a certain point Cuomo could simply say he put up with it to save his citizens, in some self righteous tirade, and it would make a big difference in October. If there’s one thing Americans want, it’s someone to blame.

    Dustin (c56600)

  51. The doctor is named and quoted. Also, he was removed from his post for trying save lives by addressing the Covid-19 pandemic with safe and scientifically vetted solutions

    Even if he’s wrong, the fact he’s willing to offer a different perspective should make him invaluable right now.

    But the priorities are clear. Make things look good or you’re done. Doctor, Captain, reporter. To Trump, none of them work for the American people, really.

    Dustin (c56600)

  52. Today Trump lied about what the CDC director told the WaPo yesterday.

    In an interview, Redfield said:

    “There’s a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through,” Redfield told the Post. “And when I’ve said this to others, they kind of put their head back, they don’t understand what I mean. We’re going to have the flu epidemic and the coronavirus epidemic at the same time.”

    A few hours after the interview was published, Redfield retweeted it and urged everyone to read it.

    But only happy-talk is allowed!

    This morning Trump tweeted:

    “CDC Director was totally misquoted by Fake News @CNN on Covid 19. He will be putting out a statement.”

    It wasn’t CNN who interviewed him.

    Redfield has put out no statement, and has not suggested he was misquoted in any way.

    Trump’s paid liar, McEnany said this:

    “The CDC director, I spoke with him just before coming out here. He was very clear in saying look, we might have flu reemerge in the fall. All Americans need to go out and get their flu shots, that was the thrust of his comments, but you know, leave it to the media to really take those out of context.”

    LOL. Out of context. The head of the CDC says we may be in for much worse than what we’ve already been through, but all he really wanted us to take away was – hey, get your flu shot!

    Shameful.

    Dave (1bb933)

  53. What could be missing or overseen as a result of dismissing Dr. Bright’s goals, and being conveniently moved to another position? He was absolutely right to say that it should be the science guiding this, not Dr. Trump’s uneducated guesses. Dr. Trump publicly advocated for and promoted two drugs for coronavirus. Why wouldn’t he want a rigorous vetting of it? And who in their right, non-patisan mind could possibly disagree with “science, not “politics and cronyism” must lead the way” This whole episode, as reported, reeks of politics and cronyism. The American people deserve better. And those sick with coronavirus certainly deserve better.

    Dana (0feb77)

  54. “What have you got to lose?”

    😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. Ok, so that will be the agenda for the chicken-pluckers the rest of the week. “Knives out for Redfield.”

    nk (1d9030)

  56. @32. You should have seen Goodman sparring w/Cooper on CNN. She’ll do three shows a day on the Strip for any camera.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


  57. Donald Trump did promote the combination, early on, but, I assume, he got more advice, and stopped.

    The tweet is from March 21.

    26. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/22/2020 @ 12:48 pm

    And weeks after that, to you know, a few days ago.

    OK, I was half righr. In that quotation Donald Trump talks mainly about hydroxychloroquine but he throws in the Z-Pak, or zinc, but with a caveat of it depending on the doctor. (that would seem to indicate that Donald Trump is basing that on what actually happens, and wants to cover everything.

    And that he thinks hydroxychloroquine needs a helper, with some doctors saying use the Z-pack, which is azithromycin, and some saying use zinc. (!) He doesn’t understand anything (except what’s used)

    And then he goes on to say that they oppose it because he recommended it. He has to know he is on very shaky ground here.

    Sammy, I don’t know what you’re trying to prove.

    Wel, that this report was dishonest because it seemed to be trying to attribute to hydroxychloroquine what was caused by azithromycin. And I thought azithromycin wasn’t being used by the dcctors who give hydroxychloroquine. I don’t know what is the case. I ca;t really on Donald Trump – he might have mentioned the Z-Pak and zinc as alternatives because they both begin with a “Z”

    If it’s that this was always moronic, pushed by stupid people, with zero evidence of benefit, and lots of evidence of uselessness and harm, then great, you are being very successful.

    Well, no. Adding the azithromycin to the hydroxychloroquine looks moronic, because I haven';t read any reason for that (except there is the obvious guarding against a secondary bacterial infection)

    There is some reason to think hydroxychloroquine works, and three theories as to why, and two of them would mean it works to prevent infection and matters more in less serious cases or as apreentative. If it showed no signs of not working at all, they would stop it.

    Now about the zinc: That has reasons:

    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/06/hydroxychloroquine-update-for-april-6 From the comments:

    If my understanding is correct a Zinc supplement is required for most effective results. I believe what they’re seeing in the unreliability is due to the patient’s natural zinc supply. IIUC/AFAIK, the HCQ is used to transport Zinc into the cell and it’s the zinc that stops viral replication. This would make studies that don’t include a zinc supplement highly variable as if this mechanism is working as expected, it would highly depend on the availability of zinc within the patient’s body…

    …Hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionosfer. Studies have found that Zinc in the cell will not allow covid 19 to reproduce. myacins have been found to also inhibit viruses from attaching to cells. That is why they are being prescribed for this, not for their antibacterial properties. Thus treatment earlier with these drugs may keep patients from becoming serious

    ly ill. Once the patient is already seriously ill, there may be too much virus to overcome.

    Ionosfer may be atypo for ionophore.

    This is variation of theory number number 1 here

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-try-reducing-malaria-drug-hoarding-amid-unproven-coronavirus-benefit-11586095200

    The drugs make it harder for the virus to fuse with the host cell.

    except that the effect is indirect and depends on the patient having a god supply of zinc in the bloodstream.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  58. Ok, so that will be the agenda for the chicken-pluckers the rest of the week. “Knives out for Redfield.”

    Given that the CDC’s incompetence denied us the capability to test for a crucial month, I’m surprised he wasn’t thrown under the bus long ago.

    I suppose that would require acknowledging that the administration’s botched response wasn’t rainbows-and-unicorns perfect, so instead he stays.

    Dave (1bb933)

  59. What must be happening that a doctor holds a good and appropriate views and goals that will ultimately saves lives, gets pushed aside?

    Trump would let half the country die if he were convinced the other half would vote for him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  60. * a good supply of zinc in the bloodstream.

    Dana (0feb77) — 4/22/2020 @ 2:08 pm

    Why wouldn’t he want a rigorous vetting of it?

    Because it would take too long. And the type of vetting is overkill. And some people around him, or in communication with him, know that. That kind of vetting wold prevent anything at all even tests would get started. Nothing, nothing, nothing at all. And a vaccine would take a dozen years.

    Now somebody should try to get down to the bottom of this.

    Now we have a theory that it is zinc that really does the job but the hydroxychloroquine helps the zinc get into the cell.

    Of course it is very obvious that the hydroxychloroquine didn’t cure Covid-19 but only operated so as to prevent an infection from getting worse, or from getting started.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  61. There is some reason to think hydroxychloroquine works, and three theories as to why, and two of them would mean it works to prevent infection and matters more in less serious cases or as apreentative. If it showed no signs of not working at all, they would stop it.

    No, there is exactly the opposite, there IS evidence of it harming people, Pepsi is more useful in treating Covid, BECAUSE IT DOESN’T ACTIVELY MAKE IT WORSE!!!!

    Nothing you say rises to theory: a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation.

    It’s a delusion: a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact

    Quick promoting quackery and putting lives at risk. Your and the fever swamp theories are not just wrong, they’re dangerous.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  62. Totally OT
    Allahpundit would call this a palate cleanser

    http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2020/04/french-jewish-spy-who-survived.html

    Kishnevi (30d0bc)

  63. People know about zinc (for preventing colds) because zinc as a vitamin pill has been virtually impossible to get since this thing started.

    By the way, I don;t think very mch zinc is needed.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  64. My palate is cleansed, thanks Kish!

    felipe (023cc9)

  65. Sammy,

    I’m going to ask you not to advise people about what they should or shouldn’t take to prevent/treat coronavirus, okay? Thanks.

    Dana (0feb77)

  66. 61 Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/22/2020 @ 2:39 pm

    there IS evidence of it harming people,

    Not from this report, which pointed out a well known side effect of azithromycin/

    I think, from the comments at:

    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/06/hydroxychloroquine-update-for-april-6

    that azithromycin is also supposed to help zinc get into cells, but that, or whatever original theory prompted some doctors to try it, didn’t make it into the newspaper or magazine stories I read.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  67. 65. I’m not saying what they should take. I’m saying what some people think. They may be wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  68. I enjoyed that, Kish

    Dustin (c56600)

  69. Dr. Trump’s now on TeeVee demonstrating complete incompetence on things like “facts” and “science”. He’s prognosticating that “the corona” won’t come back in the fall, or just embers, but it won’t be like now. When asked why it won’t, because we have all the social distancing. When asked about reopening lessening the social distancing, he said we know “the corona” now.

    I feel totally relieved, he’s on top of it, 100%, 10 out of 10.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  70. Does Dr. Trump ever listen to his own people??

    Even as states move ahead with plans to reopen their economies, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Tuesday that a second wave of the novel coronavirus will be far more dire because it is likely to coincide with the start of flu season.

    “There’s a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through,” CDC Director Robert Redfield said in an interview with The Washington Post. “And when I’ve said this to others, they kind of put their head back, they don’t understand what I mean.”

    “We’re going to have the flu epidemic and the coronavirus epidemic at the same time,” he said.

    Having two simultaneous respiratory outbreaks would put unimaginable strain on the health-care system, he said. The first wave of covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, has already killed more than 42,000 people across the country. It has overwhelmed hospitals and revealed gaping shortages in test kits, ventilators and protective equipment for health-care workers.

    Dana (0feb77)

  71. When asked about his statement about people lining the National Mall on the 4th of July, and the reality of what the Dr.’s just said about CV being around still in the summer. President Trump immediately said that…

    …I kid, he went on for 2 minutes how the parade and airshow were so great last year, and how big the crowd was and he saw pictures of Martin Luther King…

    …we’re totally safe, he’s got this handled, 100% perfect, 10 out of 10.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  72. When asked why he can’t be the hero for the states and use the DPA to help them get all the testing supplies…

    We’re the king of testing, testing more than all other countries.

    Follow up, is .2% good?

    It’s totally a media trap, whether it was .2% or 100% he wouldn’t be getting good coverage.

    So, sure, helping out Americans who live in states would be good, if he would get good credit for it, but if not, then why bother.

    …we’re totally safe, he’s got this handled, 100% perfect, 10 out of 10.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  73. UPDATE BY PATTERICO:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  74. Hm, regarding Dr. Bright @ 49: Perhaps there was more to the story:

    Rick Bright, the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, was transferred to a new, more narrow role at the National Institutes of Health this week, an HHS spokesperson confirmed. The move was more than a year in the making — Bright had clashed with department leaders about his decisions and the scope of his authority — but came abruptly, said five current and former HHS officials.

    Bright told The New York Times on Wednesday that he believed his removal was because of his internal opposition to pursuing investments in malaria drugs as potential treatments for Covid-19, which President Donald Trump has touted without scientific evidence. Three people with knowledge of HHS’ recent acquisition of tens of millions of doses of those drugs said Bright had supported those acquisitions in internal communications, with one official saying that Bright praised the move as a win for the health department as part of an email exchange that was first reported by Reuters last week, although Bright’s message was not publicly reported.

    “If Bright opposed hydroxychloroquine, he certainly didn’t make that clear from his email — quite the opposite,” said the official, who has seen copies of the email exchanges.

    Inside HHS, Bright’s ouster is being positioned as a way to improve a crucial disease-fighting arm at a time of national crisis, amid some officials’ complaints that BARDA moved too slowly, focused on the wrong investments and took too long to award its contracts.

    “BARDA was not as responsive during the crisis” as it could have been, said one former official. “Rather than prioritizing therapeutics that could be available in weeks, Bright focused on products that would take weeks or months.” For instance, BARDA didn’t make what’s known as a broad agency announcement to solicit potential investments in diagnostics, vaccines or treatments until March, five weeks after HHS Secretary Alex Azar declared a public health emergency over the Covid-19 outbreak.

    But the Trump administration’s leadership team long faulted Bright for an array of management problems, including complaints about BARDA’s pace and strategy, concerns echoed by outside observers. For instance, Bright steered multiple investments with companies like Roche and Sanofi to develop what are known as IL-6 inhibitors, which target potential drivers of inflammation in Covid-19 patients with severe disease; scientists have found evidence that the IL-6 agents could prevent some of the ravages of Covid-19. But leaders and observers thought the decisions were duplicative, noting that Eli Lilly is also pursuing a government-backed investigation into IL-6 inhibitors too.

    “That’s three bets on basically the same mechanism of action,” said one outside analyst with knowledge of BARDA operations. “To do it to the exclusion of all else was insane.”

    The report also cites his supporters in BARDA, the administration and HHS. It seems that there is a history of infighting within the health department, and this might speak to that. The concern, of course, is that the infighting might have hindered COVID-19 responses.

    Dana (0feb77)

  75. Hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionosfer…

    Pennies are made of zinc these days; would rather not suck on a mouthful of Lincoln heads. But hydroxychloroquine… golly, Mr. Trump: does it work on stains?:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLafjTh8Tdg

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. jerylbier
    @JerylBier
    ·
    In March, Rick Bright requested the FDA issue an “Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for emergency use of oral formulations of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate for the treatment of 2019 coronavirus disease (COVID-19)…”
    https://fda.gov/media/136534/download
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze

    Would think NY Times Pulitzer journalists would have looked at this stuff before running their piece, I mean if they cared about a *actual journalism and not salacious palace intrigue.

    _

    harkin (79fdd7)

  77. Danna @74.

    This makes more sense, of course.

    Anything to do with hydroxychloroquine was not part of his job, so why would it cause his removal? You’d have to assume that Dona;d Trump was on a witchhunt to get rid of any dissenters about hydroxychloroquine, but he’s not. He didn’t do anything about Dr Fauci, and there are others.

    The only thing is, some people are prejudiced about Trump – they can be prejudiced even if it right that he is genuinely doing some or many things wrong, even including doing things for political reasons..

    I thought, since Dr. Rick Bright’ job had to do with vaccines, that, if job related, it probably had to do with vaccines, probably slowness. You could even argue the slowness was justified, and it would still be over vaccines. Or something else connected with his main responsibilities

    And now you bring an article to show that it was in fact that:

    “Rather than prioritizing therapeutics that could be available in weeks, Bright focused on products that would take weeks or months.” …

    Bright didn;t even oppose hydroxychloroquine, or didn’t make it known.

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  78. Bright wasn’t fired even, just moved out of the way, although maybe he was protected by Civil Service rules.

    His job was Director of the Department of Health and Human Services’ Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, or BARDA, and he also was the deputy assistant secretary for preparedness and response.

    He was in charge of a research. (funding things)

    Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1)

  79. Little Don Trump sat on his rump,
    While cozened by Xi Jinping.
    When he took out his thumb*,
    He heard us all say he’s dumb,
    So he pushed hy…hy…hydroxychloroquine.

    *It’s more of a British expression but I don’t think you need to look it up, do you?

    nk (1d9030)

  80. Shorter Liberal/Left: A cure for CV-19 doesn’t work woo hoo! Take that Orange man!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  81. So this is good news, eh Never-trumpers? Lots of celebrating over this study. Just to repeat again: Trump has not been “touting” or “promoting” HCQ. He stated he had “heard good things about it” and said given the situation, we couldn’t wait for trials but should “give it a try”. Because, if you’re dealing with someone who’s critically ill, “What have you got to lose?”.

    but of course the truth gets in the way of the propaganda. “Trump gives people false hope!” “Trump plays Doctor, promotes dangerous drug” “Man eats fish cleaner, Trump to blame!” and now “Trump drug found to be ineffective”..

    rcocean (1a839e)

  82. If you read the details of the study, its quite limited, and none of it is surprising. For example Patients with bad hearts do badly with it, but that could be expected given the history of the drugs being used.

    Hopefully, the “z pack” will be of some use in certain cases not covered by the study. Its not a miracle cure, but then no none thought it would be.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  83. I was hoping HCQ and the Z-pack would be a game-changer because I might get CV-19, unlike all the liberal/leftists and never-trumpers who seem to be happy the drug was ineffective.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  84. Please do not ascribe the way Trump supporters think to us, rcocean. I would have been happy to 1) have been wrong about an efficacious treatment for the virus, and 2) to have a President who knew what he was talking about for once. Not necessarily in that order. Very happy.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. Shorter Liberal/Left: A cure for CV-19 doesn’t work woo hoo! Take that Orange man!

    rcocean (1a839e) — 4/23/2020 @ 11:07 am

    You can’t go to a Trump blog without seeing this argument. If you want a lockdown, secretly you want to ruin your own economy. If you were cautious about Trump’s miracle cure, you secretly want a lot of people to die.

    rcocean: it is not always about Trump. And Trump’s the guy who made that drug a political issue. He’s the guy who has been fighting to ‘LIBERATE’ states. I agree with you that these developments are very bad for him politically.

    But we’re just passengers. I would like my family to be healthy and have jobs. I don’t need everything to be some damn partisan fight. Almost no one thinks like Trump did when he joked about Romney getting sick.

    Dustin (c56600)

  86. So this is good news, eh Never-trumpers? Lots of celebrating over this study.

    It’s never a celebration when a Huckster-in-Chief pushes an unproven drug on the populace and the drug fails to perform as the huckster advertised. And, yes, he was pushing it when he called it a “tremendous breakthrough” and “game changer”.

    Paul Montagu (b3f51b)

  87. 83… this was that “glee” mentioned elsewhere…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. Death cult gaslighting playbook, page three:

    “He didn’t say what he said when he said what he said.”

    Dave (1bb933)


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