Patterico's Pontifications

2/19/2020

Trump Sells Pardon to Father of Donor

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:44 am



Donald J. Trump issued a slew of pardons yesterday, mostly to people whose cases had been showcased on Fox News. There is at least one case, though, in which Trump’s attention may have been focused on something else: the eternal buck.

Paul Pogue, a construction company owner who pleaded guilty to underpaying his taxes by $473,000 and received three years probation, was issued a full pardon and clemency by the president.

According to FEC filings, Pogue’s family has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars in direct contributions and in-kind air travel to the Trump Victory Committee. Beginning in August 2019, Ben Pogue—CEO of Pogue Construction and son of Paul Pogue—and his wife Ashleigh made over $200,000 in contributions to the campaign.

In August alone, Ben Pogue donated $85,000 to Trump Victory while Ashleigh Pogue contributed $50,000 that month. The following month, Ben Pogue made an in-kind air travel contribution of $75,404.40. The couple also made several large donations to the Republican National Committee and each donated $5,600 to Donald Trump for President Inc.

On the day of their first donation to the Trump campaign, Ashleigh posted an Instagram photo of her and her husband posing with Donald Trump Jr. and his girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, at the Hamptons.

Prior to the Pogues’ sudden significant donating spree to Trump and the Republicans, the couple was not seen as big campaign spenders, having donated a few thousand dollars for Paul Ryan’s congressional campaign in 2017 and $5,400 for former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum’s 2016 Republican presidential run.

I bolded the language about the donation to Santorum because oddly enough, Santorum was a big advocate of the pardon, as was a Texas politician to whom Pogue himself had donated:

Among those who advocated for Pogue’s clemency, according to a White House statement, were former Republican U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum and Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. When Santorum ran for president in 2016, Pogue was a member of his national finance committee.

In Texas, Pogue gave $10,000 to help Paxton fight felony charges of securities fraud that have shadowed him since taking office in 2015. Paxton has pleaded not guilty and the case has been at a standstill for years. Campaign finance records also show that Pogue has donated to other GOP officeholders in Texas, including former Gov. Rick Perry and state Sen. Angela Paxton, the attorney general’s wife.

Ah well. That’s how politics works: you scratch my back, I scratch yours let you commit crimes and get off scot-free. A similar thing happened recently in Kentucky, when outgoing Trumpist governor Matt Bevin issued a raft of pardons, including a pardon for a murderer whose family had been big donors:

In one case, Bevin pardoned a man convicted of homicide. That man’s family raised more than $20,000 at a political fundraiser to help Bevin pay off a debt owed from his 2015 gubernatorial campaign.

. . . .

Another of Bevin’s pardons was of Patrick Brian Baker, who was convicted in 2017 of murdering Donald Mills and tampering with physical evidence, among other charges.

As the Courier-Journal also reports, Baker’s family “raised $21,500 at a political fundraiser last year to retire debt from Bevin’s 2015 gubernatorial campaign.” Baker’s brother and sister-in-law also donated $4,000 to Bevin campaign, according to a state election finance database, the paper reports.

. . . .

Baker was sentenced to 19 years, but served just two. His sentence was commuted to time served and a pardon only for the charges connected to the conviction.

Baker’s confederates, whose involvement in the crime was far less serious, are still rotting in prison.

[Commonwealth’s Attorney Jackie] Steele noted Baker served two years of a 19-year sentence on his conviction for reckless homicide, robbery, impersonating a peace officer and tampering with evidence.

Steele, who, like Bevin, is a Republican, also cited the fact that two of Baker’s co-defendants are still in prison.

“What makes Mr. Baker any different than the other two?” he asked.

Well, the families of the other two donated nothing. That’s different, isn’t it?

In Kentucky, top lawmakers called for a special prosecutor to investigate potential corruption by Bevin. The Senate minority leader in Kentucky, a former prosecutor, explained that cash appears to have been the sole reason for Bevin’s pardon of Baker:

McGarvey highlighted the difference in treatment of Baker and the other co-defendants still in jail, adding that “the balance in your bank account cannot determine your access to justice in the commonwealth of Kentucky.”

“The fact that we have someone who was convicted of killing someone in front of his wife at his home who pulled the trigger, but the people who drove him away from that crime are still in jail… it defies any rational explanation how that happens,” McGarvey said.

Oh, there’s a rational explanation, all right. It’s just a corrupt rational explanation.

Meanwhile, Trump’s selling of pardons is a one-day story; a blip on the screen for the most harassed president in American history, if not the most oppressed creature in the entire universe for all time.

192 Responses to “Trump Sells Pardon to Father of Donor”

  1. In response to the inevitable whatabouts, yes, Clinton pardoning Marc Rich was just as bad. IMO it was his most blatantly corrupt act in 2 terms, and the most impeachment worthy.

    This, by comparison, is just another day at the office for the swamp drainer.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  2. I can’t find anyone writing about the Bloggo pardon who understands the motivation behind it.

    I’m left with it just being one corrupt-0-crat thug reaching out to another.

    …strange days…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  3. The saddest thing about these pardons and the motivation behind them is that very few people will be surprised.

    John B Boddie (286277)

  4. 2, it is somewhat deeper on 2 fronts – Blago was known to be insanely jealous of the One’s rapid ascendancy from (same-)State Senator to POTUS in 4 years and also Blagojevich is the youngest and perhaps the last of the old white ethnic (non-WASP, non-evangelical in Chicago parlance) pols who in their heyday were openly-admitted Reagan Democrats. This could be an appeal by Trump to a group that feels Blago had the encyclopedia set dropped on him while Daley the younger and countless minority corrupts walk freely or got wrist slapped.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  5. “L’état, c’est moi.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  6. The saddest thing about these pardons and the motivation behind them is that very few people will be surprised.

    The saddest thing will be the Trump defenders insisting that all those pardons are strictly a matter of fairness toward people unjustly persecuted by the Deep State — and that Donald Trump would never use his power in an egregiously self-serving way.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  7. Whatabout the time the deepstate(TM) faked the moon landing to murder JFK. If you’re not complaining about that you’re just suffering from OMB(TM) syndrome. Also, the Constitution doesn’t specifically say Trump isn’t allowed to sell pardons so you don’t care about the rule of law and this is just another witch hunt.

    /snark

    Time123 (441f53)

  8. Trump has to look up to see Foggy Bottom.

    noel (4d3313)

  9. I was under the impression that the primary connection between the slew of pardons is that they were all Derp State overcharges from the Mueller/Comey/etc axis. But I’m happy to believe that some might have been favors to political donors too.

    As for Blago, his big crime is that he was gauche about selling what he had and made the Derp Staters look bad. So he had to be overcharged to send a message. Others in similar positions had gotten more of a slap-on-the-hand sentence. Blago’s went overboard.

    He wouldn’t have been on my list of wrongs to be righted, but I can see the logic and the sob story.

    Ingot9455 (d9d16a)

  10. Serious comment. This is corrupt and horrible and voting for Trump re-enforces that the idea that this is OK. Presidents typically wait to do this kind of corrupt action until they’re on their way out the door and punishing them would be a moot point. Even then there are complaints about it.

    I assume part of this is to gauge push back and determine what the political price will be to using the power to pardon in other even more self serving ways.

    Time123 (441f53)

  11. Make way for another yes-man:

    Top Pentagon policy official resigns at Trump’s request

    One official said some examples of Rood’s differing views from some of Trump’s key policy stances included being skeptical about peace talks with the Taliban as well as the administration decision to scale down military exercises with South Korea during talks with North Korea and him pushing for a more aggressive approach to Russia by supporting Ukraine.

    Dave (1bb933)

  12. Don’t need to go as far back as Clinton/Marc Rich:

    Wayback Machine: Remember Obama’s Iran Deal Pardons?

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/way-back-machine-remember-obamas-iran-deal-pardons/
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  13. 4 & 9

    Appreciate the thought (and creativity) that went into those. You may even be right. I remain with my simple formula, however, and note that it still seems to work at bottom even provided yours are true.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  14. Harkin, so what’s your take. This is wrong or this is right?

    I think using the pardon power in the ways listed is wrong. Was wrong for Trump and Obama and Clinton.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  15. harkin, those were essentially prisoner exchanges IIRC. Hardly comparable.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  16. From Dave’s link:

    He was involved in certifying to Congress that Ukraine had embarked on significant reforms to justify its receipt of $250 million in security assistance.

    That certification undermined one of the justifications — concerns about corruption in Kiev — that some members of the Trump administration made to defend blocking aid to Ukraine.

    Hours after Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a conversation that was at the center of impeachment proceedings, Rood emailed Secretary of Defense Mark Esper — who had been in the job two days — informing him about an upcoming deputies meeting, “to discuss the President’s concern about endemic corruption in Ukraine and his reported view that US should cease providing security assistance,” according to emails reviewed by CNN. Rood notes in his email to the secretary that “placing a hold on security assistance at this time would jeopardize this unique window of opportunity and undermine our defense priorities with a key partner in the strategic competition with Russia.”

    If Trump or any President politicizes foreign aid/security, then Ukraine and other nations will not try to do what America asks of them (whether it involves correcting corruption, providing humanitarian/military assistance, or something else). Instead, nations will redouble their efforts to curry favor with the sitting President and his family. That is good for the sitting President but bad for American interests.

    DRJ (15874d)

  17. If Trump or any President politicizes foreign aid/security, then Ukraine and other nations will not try to do what America asks of them (whether it involves correcting corruption, providing humanitarian/military assistance, or something else). Instead, nations will redouble their efforts to curry favor with the sitting President and his family. That is good for the sitting President but bad for American interests.

    ^this

    Time123 (441f53)

  18. Power mad and clueless:

    After using his presidential power to issue a series of pardons on Tuesday, Donald Trump raised foes’ hackles as he declared ‘I’m actually, I guess, the chief law enforcement officer of the country.’

    DRJ (15874d)

  19. If Trump or any President politicizes foreign aid/security, then Ukraine and other nations will not try to do what America asks of them (whether it involves correcting corruption, providing humanitarian/military assistance, or something else). Instead, nations will redouble their efforts to curry favor with the sitting President and his family. That is good for the sitting President but bad for American interests.

    “Je le répète – l’état, c’est moi.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  20. This is no doubt another example of what a corrupt scum-bag Trump is. Part of the price you pay for getting Trump.

    I think using the pardon power in the ways listed is wrong. Was wrong for Trump and Obama and Clinton.

    I agree with you. But the reality is, they all did it, in one way or another, and yet they were all voted into office. And I have no reason to believe that if someone like Biden or Warren gets in, they won’t do the same.

    The relevance, then, is not to excuse Trump, but in deciding whom to vote for, whether Trump is uniquely corrupt or simply a symptom of our corrupt political system. If the latter, then other conisderations, like federal court nominations, or deregulation, take on added weight.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  21. … clueless about the theory of our system of government. Trump doesn’t understand it, and many Americans have given up on it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. I fear that Attorney General Bill Barr — the actual chief law enforcement officer of the United States — may have thought he could manage Trump because he is smarter than Trump. But power mad (power in the hands of someone with no restraint) beats intellect in the short-term.

    DRJ (15874d)

  23. To me, these pardons matter because they demonstrate a President willing to use power with no restraint. Other Presidents have done that, too, although Trump has taken it a step further than most by the timing of his pardon power. He did not wait until the last minutes of his term. He is showing that he feels no restraint and, frankly, omnipotent.

    DRJ (15874d)

  24. To me, these pardons matter because they demonstrate a President willing to use power with no restraint.

    Can’t agree. The Trump administration has been challenged many times in court, and has respected court outcomes (subject to appeals, of course). I have yet to see anyone there echo Jackson’s famous (or infamous) line “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!”

    The pardon power is one of those the President has which is unreviewable and unchecked, apart from elections. So, not a surprise, he has now discovered his new toy and is using it.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  25. My point is not that Trump grants pardons, it is about his timing. How Presidents do things is evidence of their state of mind, just as much as what they do.

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. The pardon power is one of those the President has which is unreviewable and unchecked, apart from elections.

    elections and impeachment, I don’t think he should be impeached for this. But I can see scenarios where the use of the pardon power would merit removal from office.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  27. Plus, do you really think Trump is respecting courts?

    Roger Stone judge ignores Trump’s taunts, leaves sentencing scheduled for Thursday

    DRJ (15874d)

  28. Speaking of corruption, The Hill’s assessment of John Solomon’s work is done, and it’s not complimentary about Solomon or The Hill.
    Bottom line, Solomon used sketchy sources such as Shokin, Lutsenko, a Ukrainian parliamentarian investigated for corruption, the indicted Mr. Kulyk, and so forth. Solomon used Toensing-DiGenova as sources but didn’t disclose that they were his long-time attorneys (or that they also represented Shokin and Lutsenko, or that they hired Parnas and Fruman to work for their client, Firtash), and he was sneaky about identifying himself as a “journalist” when his byline was “opinion columnist”.
    At the end of each of his columns from March 2019 onward are editors’ notes that fact-check his work, identify his sketchy sources, and provide the necessary context that Solomon failed to include. The Hill’s mistakes can basically be lumped into poor oversight.
    We all owe a debt of gratitude to Mr. Solomon because, despite his best efforts to help Trump, out of all the media members who wanted the president impeached, Solomon was by far the most influential and successful at making it happen.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  29. Plus, do you really think Trump is respecting courts?

    He has made childish tweets about parts of the court system. At the same time, many of his policy initiatives have been stymied by the courts (in some cases to be later overturned at SCOTUS), and he has never said, screw it, I will do what I want. Always said, we don’t agree and will appeal (or modified the policy in an attempt to meet the court’s restraint. See the history of the so-called Muslim ban.)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  30. If POLITICO says that Blago’s sentence was insane, it must have been pretty crazy.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/18/covered-blagojevich-trial-trump-commutation-115903

    Ingot9455 (d9d16a)

  31. At the same time, many of his policy initiatives have been stymied by the courts (in some cases to be later overturned at SCOTUS), and he has never said, screw it, I will do what I want.

    Maybe. He has come close, and he has definitely done his best to undermine respect for those courts.

    DRJ (15874d)

  32. We might ask why Trump did not wait to pardon. Why do it now, instead of waiting until after the election? Because he likes people who say nice things about him, and he can always use more campaign donations.

    All this press about his pardons is just spreading the word that Trump’s Pardons is open for business.

    DRJ (15874d)

  33. I agree with DRJ at 32. Celebrity and money. Trump can’t get enough of either. (In the case of money, literally cannot get enough. If he had not been elected President, his hotels and resorts would have gone into bankruptcy.)

    nk (1d9030)

  34. Reagan pardoned Steinbrenner.

    ‘Nuff said.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. And I disagree that the pardon power is unlimited. Bribery is a limitation.

    nk (1d9030)

  36. Hmm. Unless he pardons himself for taking bribes to issue pardons? Could he do that, I wonder.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. This seems pretty whiny to me.

    I look at it this way. Every President (on both sides) does this, and every president gets slammed for it by the other side. But, most do it on their way out the door at the last minute.

    At least this guy is doing it before the next election. If its a horrible thing and everyone is outraged, they can vote him out of office. None of the others had the balls to do that. They sheepishly did it before they walked out of the oval office for the last time.

    Jack Jack (bbb81b)

  38. If he doesn’t die in office first, fully expect Trump to pardon himself, just because, well— just because he believes he can.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  39. But, most do it on their way out the door at the last minute.

    Well, no. Reagan was pretty prolific, and he gave pardons right along.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  40. Republican president George H. W. Bush pardoned, commuted or rescinded the convictions of 77 people. Among them are, for their roles in the Iran–Contra affair:
    Elliott Abrams
    Duane Clarridge
    Clair George
    Alan Fiers
    Robert McFarlane – National Security Adviser to President Ronald Reagan
    Caspar Weinberger – Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan

    source- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_president_of_the_United_States

    Personally, will never forgive Andrew Johnson for pardoning traitorous confederate scum like Jefferson Davis. He shudda been impeached for that alone… Oh, wait…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. Like I said, most.

    Jack Jack (bbb81b)

  42. None of the others had the balls to do that. They sheepishly did it before they walked out of the oval office for the last time.”

    –Jack Jack

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  43. Whatever dude.

    He gave you the chance to vote him out of office over it.

    I think that’s better than doing it on the way out the door. YMMV.

    Jack Jack (bbb81b)

  44. Speaking of Trump pardons…

    LONDON—A lawyer for Julian Assange has claimed in court that President Trump offered to pardon Assange if the WikiLeaks founder agreed to help cover up Russia’s involvement in hacking emails from the Democratic National Committee.
    Assange’s lawyers said on Wednesday that former Republican congressman Dana Rohrabacher [R-Omsk] offered Assange the deal in 2017, a year after emails that damaged Hillary Clinton in the presidential race had been published. WikiLeaks posted the stolen DNC emails after they were hacked by Russian operatives.

    Link. I wonder if Hannity will stay in the Assange Fan Club after this news.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  45. Dana Rohrabacher [R-Omsk]

    Where is Omsk? Is that a new state?

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  46. Where is Omsk? Is that a new state?

    I thought Omsk was more original than Moscow.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  47. Another day another anti Trump rant. Yawn

    Property Rights (c4db62)

  48. Sane people view “tweets” as one off comments and not planned out actions taken with the full weight of the executive branch of the President.

    Sane unbiased people anyway. I mean this place has gone full on “BUSHCHIMPYMCBUSHHITLER” now. Every word is taken at its worst possible meaning and carried out to full on parody level. It’s sad

    Property Rights (c4db62)

  49. Another day, another pro-Trump rant/comment.

    DRJ (15874d)

  50. Forgot the yawn. Yawn.

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. 47. Resume your nap. We’ll muddle along without you.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  52. Did you know Trump’s tweets are official government records?

    DRJ (15874d)

  53. Sane people view “tweets” as one off comments and not planned out actions taken with the full weight of the executive branch of the President.

    Like when Trump fired Comey by tweet?
    Like it or not, every word that comes from a Trump tweet carries the weight of the Office of the President.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  54. Every word is taken at its worst possible meaning and carried out to full on parody level It’s sad.

    ~

    Another day, another pro-Trump rant/comment.

    I know you are, but what am I?

    (Just kidding. Just getting into the spirit of things.)

    On a serious note, President Trump’s supporters should not be denied worthwhile pardons/commutations any more than Democrats should be. Pointing out that it’s a family member of a donor who received a pardon is a valid observation. Now, the people can decide what, if anything, to do about Trump’s exercise of his Constitutional powers.

    Prior to the Pogues’ sudden significant donating spree to Trump and the Republicans, the couple was not seen as big campaign spenders, […].

    On another serious note, this President inspires excitement and commitment!

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  55. So the president has the power to pardon anyone? Except in cases of impeachment? Even for treason? Seems to me, someone should have written this down somewhere so as it wouldn’t take people by surprise so gosh darned often.

    PTw (894877)

  56. …this President inspires excitement and commitment!

    So did Huey P. Long.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  57. So did Randolph Scott.

    And Old Yeller.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  58. We could go back and forth with this. Are you going to raise me one Adolf Hitler and just be done with it?

    The fact is, this falls within his Constitutional powers and, at the same time, criticism is fair and your case can be made to the voters … where you will lose, big time (just yuge).

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  59. This website has been one giant whine since 2016. Meanwhile I’m living the best life in Hawaii. Benching 350, running 20 miles a week out in the sun on the beach. I’m not tired of the winning yet, the whining yeah totally tired of. Sucks to be fat, middle aged and living in California I bet. Shrug

    Property Rights (c4db62)

  60. This website has been one giant whine since 2016. Meanwhile I’m living the best life in Hawaii. Benching 350, running 20 miles a week out in the sun on the beach. I’m not tired of the winning yet, the whining yeah totally tired of. Sucks to be fat, middle aged and living in California I bet. Shrug

    Feel free to go back to stormfront or 4chan.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89)

  61. Bloggo: Getting back the freedom that was stolen from me.

    Oh, YEAH. He’s real contrite.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  62. Making America Offal Again, I was unaware that Mr. Scott or Ol’ Yeller ever held elective office.

    But I am constantly amazed at the stuff you bring here in service to your cult leader.

    It apparently matters to you what people think, as opposed to what’s right. Not too surprising.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  63. This website has been one giant whine since 2016. Meanwhile I’m living the best life in Hawaii. Benching 350, running 20 miles a week out in the sun on the beach. I’m not tired of the winning yet, the whining yeah totally tired of. Sucks to be fat, middle aged and living in California I bet. Shrug

    Sucks to be banned? Let us know. Bye!

    Patterico (3b6af9)

  64. But I am constantly amazed at the stuff you bring here…

    Says the guy who says Woodrow Wilson was a populist. Heh. Of course in a world where DJT is the establishment’s boy…

    PTw (894877)

  65. @ 63 Sucks to be banned? Let us know. Bye!

    Can he get a commutation of sentence? Perhaps for a small (or not so small) donation?

    😉

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  66. Can he get a commutation of sentence? Perhaps for a small (or not so small) donation?

    As soon as Trump starts pardoning people who insult him, maybe?

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. Says the guy who says Woodrow Wilson was a populist.

    That’s what history says, too. He was also a nationalist. Is this stuff seriously news to you?

    Progressives generally ARE populists. See also Teddy Roosevelt, F.D. Roosevelt, etc.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  68. Where is Omsk? Is that a new state?

    “There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” [then-GOP House Majority Leader Kevin] McCarthy said, according to the recording. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, another Republican from California, is a fierce defender of Russia and Putin.

    (McCarthy later tried to claim he was joking)

    Source: House Majority Leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. #44 —

    I don’t ever want to trust that Assange is telling the truth, or doing anything except acting in the absolute opposite of America’s best interests. So, while his story sure sounds tempting, it’s probably best to ignore it. Except if there is a chance to use it to make Hannity squirm.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  70. Of COURSE Mr. Establishment is the elites’ boi! He worked at it, paid for it, lied, cheated and stole for that for decades. He’s bragged about it!

    Where the fluck have YOU been…???

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  71. (Rohrabacher was my congressman until Trump turned Orange County blue in 2018)

    Dave (1bb933)

  72. Trump turned Orange County blue in 2018

    Now, that rat thar is some irony…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  73. That’s what history says, too. He was also a nationalist. Is this stuff seriously news to you?

    Source please. Are we talking the same WW? I mean the one who taught at Bryn Mawr College, was president of Princeton University, and dictated his Fourteen Points to the world (“God Almighty has only ten!” – H.L. Mencken). That WW? I searched some google of WW & populsim but came up with bumpkis. Except for several quotes that said he was fiercely opposed to populism. It’s from wiki (so meh) but still “George Norris and Woodrow Wilson pointed were vehement enemies of Populism”. A lot of that, actually. He did hire WJB as SoS, though populist WJB was isolationist regarding WWI and WW wanted us in it. IIRC WJB quit over that. But that’s about as close as I could find. Seriously. But as I say, any place where DJT is called the establishment’s candidate…well…

    PTw (894877)

  74. Benching 350, running 20 miles a week out in the sun on the beach. I’m not tired of the winning

    LOL I disagree with a political view on a discussion forum I went to because I knew it discussed politics. I will prove my point by offering my max bench. This is totally proof of how cool I am.

    Dustin (3381c1)

  75. LOL I disagree with a political view on a discussion forum I went to because I knew it discussed politics. I will prove my point by offering my max bench. This is totally proof of how cool I am.

    Plus we’re supposed to take his word on it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  76. Progressives and Populists are different animals, even back in 1900. Progressives love those unelected commissions. Populists want everyone to come to a town meeting so they can yell at you.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  77. And here I was under the impression that Assange was wanted to testify about the whole Seth Rich thing. Was he or wasn’t he?

    Ingot9455 (d9d16a)

  78. You’ll find a lot of pure crap about what a swell POTUS Wilson was, too. The truth is that he was awful, and one of the most dangerous in our history.

    Like the CURRENT Mr. Establishment, Wilson hated the Constitution and any kind of impediments to what he thought would be good for the nation. He only advocated for ignoring the Constitution. He was a fan of the KKK (which was sort of the ultimate populist outfit of the day).

    Like a lot of flaming nationalists, he had BIG ideas about how not just the nation should be run, but ALLLLLllllll nations. He laid down the first Thought Police the US had ever seen, along with a regime that saw mobs kill Americans for speaking Germane in public.

    Like I said, Progressives tend to be populists. You might want to find a good definition of populist somewhere. Oh, and Progressives can be right or left Progressives and of either major party. Nixon was a Progressive and a populist. Just like The Man From WrestleMania.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  79. You’ll find a lot of pure crap about what a swell POTUS Wilson was, too. The truth is that he was awful, and one of the most dangerous in our history.

    Same with FDR.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  80. https://www.newser.com/story/287169/assanges-lawyer-makes-explosive-claim-involving-trump.html

    ulian Assange’s extradition hearing begins on Monday, but an explosive claim was heard in a pre-trial hearing Wednesday in London: that Assange was in August 2017 allegedly offered a pardon by President Trump if he would say Russia had no role in the leak of DNC emails, which WikiLeaks subsequently published. Assange’s lawyer, Edward Fitzgerald, says the offer came from former GOP congressman Dana Rohrabacher during a visit to the Ecuadorian embassy and that Rohrabacher was there on the president’s direction.

    ulian Assange’s extradition hearing begins on Monday, but an explosive claim was heard in a pre-trial hearing Wednesday in London: that Assange was in August 2017 allegedly Rohrabacher

    But Julia assange always claimed he did not get the emails from Russia – would hint maybe someone else.

    during a visit to the Ecuadorian embassy and that Rohrabacher was there on the president’s direction.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  81. You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? It’s all bluster and calling people names. Whatever you make up is the truth so long as you stick to it without a moment’s thought or reflection. Which is what makes things such as politics attractive to people like you. No objective standards to meet, just gratuitous CAPS, exclamation points, extra letters, and other accoutrements of pompous bloviating. Eventually the meaninglessness of your rants cause people to tire of interacting with you and your lack of self awareness chalks that up as a win. You’ve even managed to annoy some of your fellow NeverTrumpers (or whatever the preferred term is) here. Whatever fills the day, I suppose.

    PTw (894877)

  82. #80

    I think you have this one nailed.

    https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/346904-assange-meets-us-congressman-vows-to-prove-russia-did-not-leak-him

    Not everything bad said about Trump is true.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  83. You’ll find a lot of pure crap about what a swell POTUS Wilson was, too. The truth is that he was awful, and one of the most dangerous in our history.

    IIRC, Wilson segregated many federal offices that had been previously integrated, and fired black federal employees. See here: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/11/20/9766896/woodrow-wilson-racist

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  84. Meanwhile…

    “He [Bloomberg] has basically been a Republican his whole life.” – Plagiarist Joe Biden

    Basically, you’re wrong, idiot:

    “Bloomberg served as the 108th mayor of New York City, holding office for three consecutive terms beginning his first in 2002. A lifelong Democrat before seeking elective office, Bloomberg switched his party registration in 2001 to run for mayor as a Republican. He defeated opponent Mark J. Green [who BTW, was a major league azzhole] in a close election held just weeks after the September 11 terrorist attacks. He won a second term in 2005 and left the Republican Party two years later. Bloomberg campaigned to change the city’s term limits law [autocrat that he is] and was elected to his third term in 2009 as an independent on the Republican ballot line. His final term as mayor ended on December 31, 2013. Bloomberg also served as chair of the board of trustees at his alma mater, Johns Hopkins University, from 1996 to 2002. After a brief stint as a full-time philanthropist, Bloomberg re-assumed the position of CEO at Bloomberg L.P. by the end of 2014.

    Bloomberg switched from Independent to Democratic affiliation in October 2018 and officially launched his campaign for the Democratic Party’s nomination in the 2020 presidential election on November 24, 2019, following weeks of speculation that he would join the race as a late entry.” – source, wikibio

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. And just for the record, lest I be misunderstood…Wilson was IMNSHO not a good POTUS. One of my least favorites. For many reasons.

    PTw (894877)

  86. Our current SOS is a beta Dana Rohrabacher.

    urbanleftbehind (119a3d)

  87. @33. Celebrity and money. Trump can’t get enough of either.

    ROFLMAOPIP; What– did you sleep through the ’80s?!

    https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/26981/19-photos-ronald-reagan-various-celebrities

    The one w/Nancy draped over Frankie is a pip… ‘scooby-doobie-dooo..’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

    Yes. Better than you.

    It’s all bluster and calling people names.

    You seem to be the one making a personal attack.

    Not for your benefit, but for anyone capable of learning…

    Populist; relating to or characteristic of a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

    Wilson was a populist in his approach to politics, as he appealed to “ordinary people” with a divisive message about how to move the nation along in ways that the “elite” (constitutional adherents) simply would not allow. His era would be characterized by Progressive ideas, a drive for Prohibition, new federal taxes, a “war” mentality in peace, and deep divisions between Americans along the lines of race, religion, and ethnicity.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  89. WikiLeaks posted the stolen DNC emails after they were hacked by Russian operatives.
    “I wonder if Hannity will stay in the Assange Fan Club after this news.”
    Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/19/2020 @ 11:00 am

    Assange also has claimed Russia was not the source of the hacked emails. Link.

    Which confirms my theory that lying dog-faced pony soldiers acquire instant credibility in #NeverTrumpLand once they say anything remotely bad about Trump.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  90. 87. Maybe worth recalling that both Reagans were Hollywood people in their own right WAY before Ronnie’s political career (unless you count his leadership of the SAG).

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  91. Assange also has claimed Russia was not the source of the hacked emails.

    Then let’s put Rohrbacher under oath and he can settle the matter.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  92. He defeated opponent Mark J. Green [who BTW, was a major league azzhole] in a close election held just weeks after the September 11 terrorist attacks

    First he had to win the Republican primary again (the election on Sept 11 was cancelled) against Herman Badillo. He did because Badillo (an ex-Democrat and one time – 1969 – liberal) simply wasn’t that well known and did;t have enough money. In 2001 I guess you could call Badillo a neoconservative.

    Sammy Finkelman (c0fa89)

  93. “Then let’s put Rohrbacher under oath and he can settle the matter.”
    Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/19/2020 @ 2:11 pm

    Are we fly fishing this time, or still worm fishing? Ice fishing? Doesn’t it get old after three years?

    And in the post-McCabe world, under oath means what exactly?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  94. DCSCA, I hope Melania has as lurid a memoir as Mrs. Just Say No. Too bad I couldn’t find the Hartman-as-Sinatra SNL skit where he takes Nancy in room above the Oval Office.

    urbanleftbehind (119a3d)

  95. I hope Melania has as lurid a memoir as Mrs. Just Say No.

    Nancy’s didn’t have a centerfold, or a book-signing tour with lap dances, so I’d say the chances are pretty good.

    Dave (1bb933)

  96. 93
    under oath
    middle finger to judge jury and victim is encouraged

    mg (8cbc69)

  97. Oh noooooo I’m banned from an irrelevant website! Whatever shall I do. How about I just take my shirt off and walk outside looking amazing and enjoying my life instead of being a depressed fat “I hate trump!” Loser? That will work.

    Property rights (a9e727)

  98. Btw anyone else notice Patt has to run to the comment section to let everyone know he banned? He’s so proud of himself that he has power to “ban” on his own website. That’s a serious accomplishment guys.

    Property rights (a9e727)

  99. 97. 98. Who let the dog back in to s**t on the floor? Pat? 😛

    Gryph (08c844)

  100. Are we fly fishing this time, or still worm fishing? Ice fishing? Doesn’t it get old after three years?

    Why does that bother you? It’s an easy way to learn the truth. You do want to know the truth, right?

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  101. Oh noooooo I’m banned from an irrelevant website! Whatever shall I do[?]

    You could see if you could buy some class, stfu, and go far away.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  102. ****ing trolls… SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  103. just the response one would expect from a lawyer with self trophied credentials

    mg (8cbc69)

  104. @94.

    https://sharetv.com/watch/353089

    Saturday Night Live; Cold Opening: Frank Sinatra

    Nancy Reagan has a secret affair with Frank Sinatra.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. A lot of you people have become a complete joke. Omg the guy I didn’t want to win won an election! He’s Hitler! He’s bad!! Hate him too as much as me or you are a cultist!!

    And you guys have kept up this non stop hate fest whining for 3 damn years, jumping on every anti trump person or bs anti trump news of the day like a dog in heat. It’s absolutely freaking pathetic. Meanwhile I’m over here living life to the fullest not caring about anything except being jacked and having a sick tan. I’ll be over here drinking your fat tears like the sweat ambrosia they are. Keep whining maybe you can convince someone else to hate trump too! What a happy day huh? Blah blah freaking blah. Now get back to writing your 5000000th opinion piece about how you no longer vote republican! What a freaking surprise and it’s totally new

    Property rights (a9e727)

  106. Btw anyone else notice Patt has to run to the comment section to let everyone know he banned? He’s so proud of himself that he has power to “ban” on his own website. That’s a serious accomplishment guys.

    You’re being an ass.

    I don’t agree with all of his bans, such as when certain topics are not allowed to be talked about from certain perspectives that he believes are wrong and that all good people agree with him; they don’t.

    However, it’s hard to argue you weren’t pointlessly being insulting. And if the site is so irrelevant, why are you here?

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  107. 106. The site is quite relevant to Prop’s pathological need to troll us, all of his (her?) protests to the contrary.

    Gryph (08c844)

  108. @94. I hope Melania has as lurid a memoir as Mrs. Just Say No.

    Past is prologue 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1gC912LUq0

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. However, it’s hard to argue you weren’t pointlessly being insulting. And if the site is so irrelevant, why are you here?

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/19/2020 @ 3:29 p

    You do realize you personally get insulted by him a lot on here as well and that you are probably going to be banned at some point right?

    Property rights (a9e727)

  110. 109. It’s one thing to be a Trump humper. It’s another ball of wax entirely to enjoy being an a**hole. Go away, a**hole.

    Gryph (08c844)

  111. You do realize you personally get insulted by him a lot on here as well and that you are probably going to be banned at some point right?

    Yes. But I won’t call him fat and brag about how many WPM I can read or how much better NYC is than LA.

    Even though it is.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  112. 111. You couldn’t pay me enough to live in NYC or LA. 😛 But I digress…

    Gryph (08c844)

  113. It’s not so much that you attacked him that’s annoying. It’s that you attacked him while bragging about things we can’t verify anyway—that’s eye-rolling. “I’m a 12-foot gorgon with a 7-foot light saber.” If true, impressive.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  114. 109. It’s one thing to be a Trump humper. It’s another ball of wax entirely to enjoy being an a**hole. Go away, a**hole.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/19/2020 @ 3:36 pm

    Cause calling people racists or unprincipled trump humpers aren’t insults

    Property rights (a9e727)

  115. 113. Good point. A true hallmark of Trollicus Griefericus.

    Gryph (08c844)

  116. 114. I didn’t call you racist. I didn’t call you a Trump humper, unprincipled or otherwise. I called you an a**hole. If the shoe fits…

    Gryph (08c844)

  117. Cause calling people racists or unprincipled trump humpers aren’t insults

    I actually do think you have a point. However, he’s recently said words to the effect of he wants to up his game with less aggressive language and wants others to as well. Why not give it a shot, then if he doesn’t, point out the hypocrisy?

    And as I said, it’s more the silly bragging than your insults.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  118. It’s not so much that you attacked him that’s annoying. It’s that you attacked him while bragging about things we can’t verify anyway—that’s eye-rolling. “I’m a 12-foot gorgon with a 7-foot light saber.” If true, impressive.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/19/2020 @ 3:43 pm

    I get it. I do bench 350 one rep max. Shrug, I also do live in a better place than California.

    I’m not going to apologize for being awesome and not caring about pattericcos sweaty fat opinion when he constantly degrades and insults millions of people that support Trump. Lol at him thinking anyone cares he’s going to vote for Bernie Sanders in California. That’s some principles sht right there.

    I’m a fiscal conservative! I swear! I believe in the rule of law!! Square that with voting for an avowed socialist? Please I’d love to see how that works. Vote for Hugo Chavez to save the Republican Party!

    Property rights (a9e727)

  119. I’m not sure, to be clear, that Patterico has called Trump supporters “racists” or “Trump humpers” (although I’ve seen others here comment with those words). I agree he’s sometimes been unnecessarily insulting, as have I and others. So let’s not do that so much?

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  120. I do bench 350 one rep max.

    Was wondering if it’s 1RM or for reps. Do you calculate it based on your 3RM or is this actually tested?

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  121. 118. You could live in a storm drain in Upper Kerplakistan and say you live in a better place than California. Do the words “damning with faint praise” mean anything to you, Troll?

    Gryph (08c844)

  122. I do bench 350 one rep max.

    Was wondering if it’s 1RM or for reps. Do you calculate it based on your 3RM or is this actually tested?

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/19/2020 @ 3:51 pm

    1rm, I don’t think the 3 rep thing is accurate. Sucks not hitting it tho, grab a spotter be safe out there in the house of gains.

    Property rights (a9e727)

  123. No doubt people’s individual strength curves vary based on geometry, muscle-fiber ratios, and motivation.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  124. 123. Oh Geez…don’t feed the troll. 😛

    Gryph (08c844)

  125. Does the Trump-ocrat Blago have any exposure under Illinois law?

    He was using an Illinois state office for his corruption, after all.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. Yeah ok, I’m a troll yet you guys can throw around any insult directed at Trump and his supporters willy nilly in a non stop hate circle jerk. You people have gone do batsht crazy Pat is writing articles how we should listen to Adam freaking schiff or how he will vote for Bernie the commie as the comment section chortles. I mean for real….Vote for Bernie Sanders the socialist to “save” our republic? How do you not realize how insane that is. Lol cause yeah Venezuala is a beautiful nation with a thriving respect for the rule of law! Hahahah give me a break

    Property rights (a9e727)

  127. +1

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  128. This website has been one giant whine since 2016. Meanwhile I’m living the best life in Hawaii. Benching 350, running 20 miles a week out in the sun on the beach. []

    Property Rights (c4db62) — 2/19/2020 @ 11:48 am

    Ha, ha, ha!
    You live in your mom’s basement.
    You weigh 350 lbs.
    You put runs in your mom’s pantyhose when you dress up in her clothes.

    nk (1d9030)

  129. or how he will vote for Bernie the commie

    That’s a lie.

    Dave (1bb933)

  130. Hey guys I’m going to vote for Bernie Sanders. It’s the only way to save our republic from the monster known as orange man. Socialist nations and leaders always turn out well, respect individual liberty, property rights, their political opponents and behave in a humane manner toward all. This will turn out swell! He’s even running on a platform that will add 60 trillion to us gov spending and end free market healthcare! Also open borders! Also banning fracking and energy exploration!

    But yeah this is gonna end so well! Orange man is a gross alternative to that! We must save our nation!

    Property rights (a9e727)

  131. I don’t recall Patterico saying he’s going to vote for Bernie.

    However, DRJ is playing with voting for Biden in the primary on the basis that, paraphrasing, he’s corrupt, but at least he’s weak and ineffective.

    I don’t get this line of thinking at all. It’s not like he won’t want to keep and wield power once he gets it, so I see the weak thing is a bug, not a feature. Weak, corrupt folk in positions of authority are extra dangerous.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  132. Does the Trump-ocrat Blago have any exposure under Illinois law?

    Almost certainly not. Any statutes of limitation would have run by now.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  133. or how he will vote for Bernie the commie

    That’s a lie.

    Dave (1bb933) — 2/19/2020 @ 4:07 pm

    Uh read flight 93 election….he just wrote it. Tf do you even read this website? Even the other day “I don’t know if I can vote for Bernie over Trump, I might sit that one out” I’m quoting him there….he’s flirting with the idea. It’s lunacy.

    Property rights (a9e727)

  134. 133. Lunacy is expecting different results while doing the same thing over and over again. There isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats anymore.

    Gryph (08c844)

  135. I don’t know if I can vote for Bernie

    Yeah, that’s a fair observation, then.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  136. Blagojevich was impeached and removed by the Illinois legislature and disqualified from holding any public office under the State of Illinois, by unanimous verdict in the state senate, before his federal conviction. He can still hold federal office, though.

    nk (1d9030)

  137. Here is some questioning of and testimony by Robert Mueller about Wikileaks (it’s an argument from authority though that their using)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-of-robert-s-mueller-iiis-testimony-before-the-house-intelligence-committee/2019/07/24/f424acf0-ad97-11e9-a0c9-6d2d7818f3da_story.html

    QUIGLEY: Director Pompeo assessed WikiLeaks in one point as a hostile intelligence service. Given your law enforcement experience and your knowledge of what WikiLeaks did here and what they do generally, would you assess that to be accurate or something similar? How would you assess what WikiLeaks does?

    MUELLER: Absolutely. And they are currently under indictment as Julian Assange is .

    QUIGLEY: Would it be fair to describe them as you would agree with Director Pompeo — that’s what he was when he made that remark — that it’s a hostile intelligence service, correct?

    MUELLER: Yes.

    QUIGLEY: If we could put up slide six. “This just came out… WikiLeaks. I love WikiLeaks,” Donald Trump, October 10, 2016, “This WikiLeaks stuff is unbelievable. It tells you the inner heart, you gotta read it,” Donald Trump, October 12, 2016. “This WikiLeaks is like a treasure trove,” Donald Trump, October 31, 2016. “Boy, I love reading those WikiLeaks,” Donald Trump, November 4, 2016. Do any of those quotes disturb you, Mr. Director?

    MUELLER: I’m not sure I would say…

    QUIGLEY: How do you react?

    MUELLER: Well, problematic is an understatement in terms of what it displays, in terms of (inaudible) some, I don’t know, hope or some boost to what is and should be illegal activity.

    QUIGLEY: Volume 1, page 59. Donald Trump Jr. had direct electronic communications with WikiLeaks during the campaign period. On October 3, 2016, WikiLeaks sent another direct message to Trump Jr. asking you guys to help disseminate a link alleging candidate Clinton had advocated a drone to attack Julian Assange. Trump Jr. responded that, quote, “he had already done so.” Same question. Is behavior at the very least disturbing? Your reaction?

    MUELLER: Disturbing and also subject to investigation.

    QUIGLEY: Would it be described as aid and comfort to a hostile intelligence service, sir?

    MUELLER: I wouldn’t categorize with any specificity.

    QUIGLEY: I yield the balance to the chairman, please.

    SCHIFF: I’m not sure I can make good use of 27 seconds but, Director, I think you made it clear that you think it unethical, to put it politely, to tout a foreign service like WikiLeaks publishing stolen political documents of presidential campaign?

    MUELLER: Certainly calls for investigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (c0fa89)

  138. He can still hold federal office, though.

    I hear there might be an opening for Attorney General any day now.

    Dave (1bb933)

  139. perhaps mr. president trump, who is the donald except in certain bars on 42nd street where he is known as tatiana, liked mr. julian assange when he still looked like the boys who cruised times square

    but i doubt if he likes him now

    he is old and fat now

    not a twink anymore

    nk (1d9030)

  140. I hear there might be an opening for Attorney General any day now.

    I gravely doubt that the corrupt-0-crat Bloggo could be approved by the Senate. Even the craven Senate we have now.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  141. howard dean for ag

    mg (8cbc69)

  142. Meanwhile…

    “I’m a New Yorker and I know a con when I see one.” – Little Big Mike

    So do we, Mikey; to thine own self be true: Bloomberg was born in Boston and grew up in Medford, Massachusetts.

    Donald Trump was a born and raised in Queens; a borough of New York City.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  143. I imagine there are records for whether or not Rohrbacher was even in Europe at the time. Maybe check that first.

    Nic (896fdf)

  144. @131:

    “It’s not like he [Biden] won’t want to keep and wield power once he gets it, so I see the weak thing is a bug, not a feature. Weak, corrupt folk in positions of authority are extra dangerous.”

    Well, yes — and this is exactly the reason so many people are worried about the danger of a Trump second term. We’ve already seen all too well what a “weak, corrupt” (and ignorant and vain and petty and insecure and unprincipled) man in power might do, and how he can be “extra dangerous” — especially if he is rich and famous enough to foster a personality cult of weak and corruptible followers. By the way, that last clause is not a personal attack on anyone, just a verifiable factual description of millions of American citizens at the moment.

    And before anyone leaps in with “Trump weak? Ha!” I will ask you to prove you have not joined the cult before leaping. Again, that’s not meant as a personal insult. There really are cults and cult members in the world, and always have been. The current Trump support base is one of the more straightforward textbook examples.
    E.g., “Bill Barr is a patriot and great American.” [Next day: Barr is reported to have expressed private reservations about the helpfulness of Trump’s tweeting about DOJ cases.] “Barr is a swamp creature trying to protect the establishment — Trump should dump the worm.”

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  145. Trump ain’t Biden-level weak.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  146. I have no problem with the Blago commutation. 8 years is a hefty sentence for his crimes, and far exceeds the averages for much more serious crimes (like rape and violent assault).

    I do have a problem with pardoning a donor because he gave money. It may be a common practice, but that doesn’t make it an ethical practice. Maybe there is some context (and if there is, I’d like to see it), but that one stinks. D.GOOCH

    GOOCH (d83d3a)

  147. Joe Biden is going to attack Mike Bloomberg on his television commercials that link him to Obama. Say he’s exaggerating the relationship. It doesn’t look too much to me like a link as it does an endorsement – people might not catch that Obama said all that in 2013.

    Meanwhile the Mike Bloomberg and Bernie Sanders campaigns are fighting. Trolls. Health.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1929)

  148. @146

    I have no problem with the Blago commutation. 8 years is a hefty sentence for his crimes, and far exceeds the averages for much more serious crimes (like rape and violent assault).

    I do have a problem with pardoning a donor because he gave money. It may be a common practice, but that doesn’t make it an ethical practice. Maybe there is some context (and if there is, I’d like to see it), but that one stinks. D.GOOCH

    GOOCH (d83d3a) — 2/19/2020 @ 5:47 pm

    Yeah… that’s my take. The pardon of a donor does stink of impropriety. However, I’m not *that* bothered buy it. Presidents has always had controversial pardons/commutations. So, this doesn’t really merit a blip on my outrage-o-meter.

    whembly (c30c83)

  149. Bloomberg is getting beat up pretty bad while scoring no points against anybody.

    My prediction remains that CIA creature Buttigieg gets the nomination. If he chooses McRaven as his running mate, he’s got a shot. An “all-Navy” ticket would be interesting.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  150. “Orange man is a gross alternative to that! We must save our nation!”

    How can your name be “Property Rights” when you keep getting publicly owned?

    Davethulhu (fe4242)

  151. YouTube channel QuickTake by Bloomberg posted “Julian Assange Lawyers Say Trump Offered Pardon Over DNC Hack If He ‘Played Ball’ “ today.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  152. #12

    Don’t need to go as far back as Clinton/Marc Rich:

    Wayback Machine: Remember Obama’s Iran Deal Pardons?

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/way-back-machine-remember-obamas-iran-deal-pardons/

    That isn’t just whataboutism. It’s bad whataboutism. The Trump and Clinton pardons are the same corrupt species. You may not like the policy implications of Obama’s pardons, but there’s nothing corrupt about them. The difference is categorical.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  153. #37

    This seems pretty whiny to me.

    I look at it this way. Every President (on both sides) does this, and every president gets slammed for it by the other side. But, most do it on their way out the door at the last minute.

    At least this guy is doing it before the next election. If its a horrible thing and everyone is outraged, they can vote him out of office. None of the others had the balls to do that. They sheepishly did it before they walked out of the oval office for the last time.

    This is what we’ve come to. Valorizing a president for not murdering his victims in a dark alley, but in the middle of Fifth Ave., news cameras rolling, daring anybody to do something about it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  154. An “all-Navy” ticket would be interesting.

    “Rum, Sodomy and the Lash” certainly makes a catchy campaign slogan…

    Dave (1bb933)

  155. I imagine there are records for whether or not Rohrbacher was even in Europe at the time. Maybe check that first.

    In 2018, Comrade Rohrabacher confessed to the meeting with Assange.

    On Wednesday, he also confessed to offering Assange a pardon, although he claims he was not speaking with Trump’s authority:

    But in a statement released Wednesday, Rohrabacher said he had never spoken to Trump about Assange and that the visit was “my own fact finding mission.”

    “When speaking with Julian Assange, I told him that if he could provide me information and evidence about who actually gave him the DNC emails, I would then call on President Trump to pardon him,” he said. “At no time did I offer a deal made by the President, nor did I say I was representing the President.”

    So it was another Rudy-style “private fact-finding mission” that President Trump knew absolutely nothing about, comrades!

    And now, Trump denies even knowing Rohrabacher:

    White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham dismissed Fitzgerald’s claim as “a total lie.” “The President barely knows Dana Rohrabacher other than he’s an ex-congressman. He’s never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject. It is a complete fabrication and a total lie. This is probably another never ending hoax and total lie from the DNC,” Grisham said in a statement to CNN on Wednesday.

    The accusation against the DNC is rather laughable, since Assange’s lawyer made the claim in a London courtroom, and Rohrabacher himself – a fellow Putin stooge like Trump – has confirmed the substance of the claim. Surely Vladimir Vladimirovich would have introduced his two friends to each other!

    But it gets even more interesting. Comrade Rohrabacher was surprisingly forthcoming under interrogation:

    Rohrabacher’s 2017 meeting with Assange was first reported by the Daily Caller. According to the report, the two met for three hours at the Ecuadorian Embassy. In 2018, Rohrabacher confirmed to CNN in an interview he had met with Assange and said he did not believe the Russians were behind the hack of the DNC.

    The former aide to Ronald Reagan, who served in the House for nearly three decades, said he tried to take Assange’s message directly to Trump but was denied a meeting by White House chief of staff John Kelly.

    A source familiar with the White House’s thinking said officials feared Trump would seize onto Rohrabacher’s cause to rebut allegations of campaign collusion with Russia, but doing so would put Trump at sharp odds with the rest of his government that has pinned the blame for election meddling squarely on the Kremlin.

    “No one followed up with me including Gen. Kelly and that was the last discussion I had on this subject with anyone representing Trump or in his Administration,” Rohrabacher said on Wednesday.

    Dave (1bb933)

  156. This is what we’ve come to. Valorizing a president for not murdering his victims in a dark alley, but in the middle of Fifth Ave., news cameras rolling, daring anybody to do something about it.

    This is what we’ve come to (well, some of “us”), analogizing the use of constitutional powers by a president to the act of murder. Yes. This is sane and healthy.

    PTw (894877)

  157. The New York Times reports that the a Rohrabacher offer to Julian Assange is old news, except what’s different now is the claim Trump authorized him to make the offer, but everybody in 2017 seemed to agree Rohrabacher was acting on his own.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/19/us/politics/julian-assange-trump-pardon.html

    The Wall Street Journal reported in September 2017 that Mr. Rohrabacher — who lost his seat in the 2018 midterm elections — was trying to broker a deal for a pardon if Mr. Assange produced evidence absolving Russia of the hack. That would have also absolved the Trump campaign of suspicions that it conspired with Russia.

    But that article portrayed Mr. Rohrabacher as approaching the White House with an idea that he had come up with, not acting as Mr. Trump’s envoy. It said that he spoke with John F. Kelly, Mr. Trump’s chief of staff at the time, about the possibility of “a meeting between Mr. Assange and a representative of Mr. Trump, preferably someone with direct communication with the president,” but that Mr. Kelly had not passed that message on to the president.

    After the Journal article, a local news program for a CBS affiliate in Los Angeles, KCAL, interviewed Mr. Rohrabacher. He confirmed the account, saying that “The Wall Street Journal has the whole thing.”

    Mr. Rohrabacher also said in that interview that Mr. Assange “repeatedly told me that the Russians were not involved at all.”

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  158. This is probably more under the category of “glandular seat-of-the-pants decision making” than “corruption”, but the bottom line is that Trump will only increase incompetence at the DNI by appointing a guy with exactly no experience in intelligence and plentiful experience in Trump a$$-kissing.

    President Trump erupted at his acting director of national intelligence, Joseph Maguire, in the Oval Office last week over what he perceived as disloyalty by Maguire’s staff, ruining his chances of becoming the permanent intelligence chief, according to people familiar with the matter.

    One of Maguire’s staff briefed a House committee on 2020 election security, and Trump wrongly believed that she was just briefing Schiff. That piece of false information was enough to not appoint Maguire to a permanent position and instead pick a head-nodding operative without the first clue about what makes the intelligence community tick. Only the best people!

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  159. …analogizing the use of constitutional powers by a president to the act of murder. Yes. This is sane and healthy.

    Well, given the predicate of the root post here (T-rump corruptly sold a pardon), as analogies go it isn’t all that bad.

    There’s a fine case to be made that the misuse of any power CAN obviate that power.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  160. This is what we’ve come to (well, some of “us”), analogizing the use of constitutional powers by a president to the act of murder. Yes. This is sane and healthy.

    You left out the part where Trump pocketed a quarter million dollar service charge for using his “constitutional powers”.

    Dave (b969fa)

  161. More on how Maguire was booted as Acting DNI and replaced by a cheerleader…

    Intelligence officials warned House lawmakers last week that Russia was interfering in the 2020 campaign to try to get President Trump re-elected, five people familiar with the matter said, in a disclosure that angered Mr. Trump, who complained that Democrats would use it against him.
    The day after the Feb. 13 briefing to lawmakers, Mr. Trump berated Joseph Maguire, the outgoing acting director of national intelligence, for allowing it to take place, people familiar with the exchange said. Mr. Trump cited the presence in the briefing of Representative Adam B. Schiff, the California Democrat who led the impeachment proceedings against him, as a particular irritant.
    During the briefing to the House Intelligence Committee, Mr. Trump’s allies challenged the conclusions, arguing that Mr. Trump has been tough on Russia and strengthened European security. Some intelligence officials viewed the briefing as a tactical error, saying that had the official who delivered the conclusion spoken less pointedly or left it out, they would have avoided angering the Republicans.
    That intelligence official, Shelby Pierson, is an aide to Mr. Maguire who has a reputation of delivering intelligence in somewhat blunt terms. The president announced on Wednesday that he was replacing Mr. Maguire with Richard Grenell, the ambassador to Germany and long an aggressively vocal Trump supporter.

    In other words, Trump didn’t want it known to Schiff that Putin endorsed Trump for a 2nd term, causing the emtional midget to have a big fat temper trantrum.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  162. Also, unsurprisingly, he is totally OK with Putin helping him again – he just wants it kept quiet.

    Dave (b969fa)

  163. Trump always has an ulterior personal/monetary motive for the things he does because — HE IS A BUSINESSMAN! — and that probably extends to his pardons. What does Trump expect Blagojaevitch to do in exchange for his pardon? What possible information could Blago have about former and current Democratic leaders that Trump might use to get re-elected?

    DRJ (15874d)

  164. Hey Paul,

    Since you brought up fake news about Assange, would you care to retract since it has been proven to be lied.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Timcast/status/1230526801820241927

    NJRob (c1e9ff)

  165. Ok, but is that based solely on Rohrbacher’s word that Trump didn’t know of his offer?

    DRJ (15874d)

  166. What does Trump expect Blagojaevitch to do in exchange for his pardon? What possible information could Blago have about former and current Democratic leaders that Trump might use to get re-elected?

    The barter chain can can more than two links, DRJ, and usually does. Blago or Blago’s Chicago connections do something for somebody or pay off somebody (who does something for somebody or pays of somebody, and so on) who does something for or pays off Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  167. For example, Eddie Gallagher hired Rudi Giuliani’s former partner and Trump’s former lawyer to be his lawyer.

    nk (1d9030)

  168. *can can have

    The can can is a sexy dance from the mid-nineteenth century.

    nk (1d9030)

  169. “I ran a diverse, complex city through 9/11.” – Mike Bloomberg

    This, of course, is another Bloomie fib.

    Rudy Giuliani was mayor on 9/11 and through the critical day afterward. Ask him; he’ll tell you. Then he’ll tell you again. And again and again…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  170. DRJ,

    everything is based solely on his word. Why are you so willing to accept negative information if it’s against President Trump, but then desire more information if it’s the other way?

    It’s like the garbage that was going around about Russia 2020. If they want anyone, it would be a leftist that wants to destroy our economy and our energy production ability.

    NJRob (c1e9ff)

  171. It’s like the garbage that was going around about Russia 2020. If they want anyone, it would be a leftist that wants to destroy our economy and our energy production ability.

    You’re being tactical. If Putin is being strategical, he would want a President who is politically weak with fierce opposition from the other party. That would have fit both Clinton and Trump in 2016. It will fit Trump in 2020, and probably whomever the Democrats nominate thus year. But with Trump, Putin gets the extra benefit of having a POTUS who is an incompetent manager, unable to process much new information, is fixated on looking good, consistently alienates possible allies, and is narcissistic enough to fall for ample doses of flattery that coax him to make decisions that are not necessarily smart.

    NPR did note in passing today that Bernie has been told by the Intelligence Community that Russia is currently trying to meddle on his behalf.

    Kishnevi (b39b48)

  172. Oh Snap! Or WTF, depending on your political inclinations. Hint: Get off my lawn.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-hollywood-legend-talks-politics-11582311359

    urbanleftbehind (d3a98a)

  173. Why are you so willing to accept negative information if it’s against President Trump, but then desire more information if it’s the other way?

    Because Trump lies and he is corrupting those around him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  174. If Putin is being strategical,

    Personally, I don’t see any “if”. Putin is Capablanca and Trump is Pee-Wee Herman.

    nk (1d9030)

  175. It’s more like Putin counts at blackjack while Trump pkays 52-pickup.

    Kishnevi (b39b48)

  176. Because Trump lies and he is corrupting those around him.

    DRJ (15874d) — 2/21/2020 @ 7:54 pm

    You realize how this sounds?

    Show me a current politician that doesn’t lie and lie often. We had people here celebrating Schiff who entered multiple lies including a fake phone call into the public record.

    There gets to be a point where personal distaste of an individual overrides reason and I think we are nearing that point. There’s too much of what the NY Times said when they claimed they’d “no longer be objective” because Trump. Are you there too?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  177. The old “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

    Are there honest people in the world? How would you know them from someone you or I would call a liar?

    There gets to be a point where apologizing for the conduct of another has cost you any integrity of your own. Are you there too?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  178. The old “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

    Are there honest people in the world? How would you know them from someone you or I would call a liar?

    There gets to be a point where apologizing for the conduct of another has cost you any integrity of your own. Are you there too?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/22/2020 @ 6:08 am

    You’re being dishonest and there’s a reason my comment wasn’t directed towards you. You choose to insult people and don’t discuss things in good faith. Goodbye.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  179. I distrust all liars, NJRob.

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. But Trump’s lying and corruption is exceptional. He and the Clintons are in a class of their own.

    DRJ (15874d)

  181. “Show me a current politician that doesn’t lie and lie often. ”

    Drain the swamp!

    Davethulhu (fe4242)

  182. If Trump is reelected, he will have no reason to keep any promise he made. None, ninguna, aucune, keine. Judges, the Wall, guns, abortion, all will go by the wayside. All he’ll care about is giving the Democrats anything they want so they won’t impeach him.

    And I will laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and laugh ….

    nk (1d9030)

  183. Since you brought up fake news about Assange, would you care to retract since it has been proven to be lied.

    What’s to retract? Assange’s lawyer said it, not me. A totally-in-the-bag pro-Trump hack dangled a pardon to Assange. It would’ve been easy for Assange or his lawyer to assume that it came back-door from Trump. But your ongoing bad-faith is noted, Rob.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  184. You’re being dishonest and there’s a reason my comment wasn’t directed towards you. You choose to insult people and don’t discuss things in good faith. Goodbye.

    I don’t see any dishonesty in what I wrote.

    What I wrote was no more insulting than what you wrote, and there was no intent to insult. My point was made in absolute good faith.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  185. Rags, I wouldn’t take Rob too seriously. He’s a proven liar and classic Trump-humper who engages in bad faith arguments all the time. Be glad he said “goodbye” to you.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  186. No, NJRob is neither a liar nor a Trump humper. He is a Trump supporter, but nobody’s perfect. My own hairline has been receding while my waistline has been advancing for quite a while now.

    Another thing he is not is a nudnik. He will not seize on a trivial detail and nitpick it to death. He has been a commenter here for a long time and is liked and respected even when people disagree with his positions.

    nk (1d9030)

  187. Thank you nk.

    I pray your remarks about Trump are wrong as I don’t think it’s in his nature to not be combative with those who attack him. If the Dems were smart they would’ve praised him over and over again publicly to get him to compromise with them. Instead they’ve attacked him from day one and tried to take away his legitimacy. That stings a man with an ego as big as Trump’s.

    As for the rest… do you think the leftists running the Democrat party would resist commie Bernie’s dreams of taking down the USA and further dividing her remains? I don’t. Most politicians are grifters. But their true believers have a legion of crazies at their beck and call willing to enforce his rule. Just ask Rep Scalise.

    NJRob (d9a8fc)

  188. I appreciate what you’re saying, nk, and I sympathize with and share that hairline/wasteline thing, but I’ve had my own interactions with him on Disqus, and I didn’t make my comment without good reason.
    Nudnik, good word.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  189. Carnivore diet. It will definitely help the latter; in fact, it will probably help the former (or at least hair color).

    Plus, you don’t want to be a quasi-vegetarian like Hitler, now do you?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  190. Truth be told, the hairline isn’t so bad, but there’s more gray than the original color, and the waistline is under control thanks to gym-ratting several times a week and a mostly paleo diet (not counting adult beverages).

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  191. Good job.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  192. Because Trump lies and he is corrupting those around him.

    While I agree that he lies, I’m unconvinced that he’s corrupting those around him. I tend to believe that the free agents who choose to remain in an official capacity supporting him are already corrupted – or have a weak character and easily influenced, and therefore only see what they need to see with regard to Trump. Those with moral integrity and fiber are the ones who have tried to serve the people by working within this administration but nevertheless, ended up leaving because of his corruption. Corruption draws the likeminded.

    Dana (4fb37f)


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