Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.
I’ll start.
First news item:
Unfortunately for Democrats, Michael Avenatti will be unavailable to save them from Trump in 2020. The Holy Spirit, who was puffed and fluffed by Big Media, was found guilty yesterday:
Disgraced lawyer Michael Avenatti, who rose to fame representing porn star Stormy Daniels in lawsuits against President Donald Trump, was found guilty Friday of trying to extort up to $25 million from Nike.
The jury’s decision in U.S. District Court in Manhattan came after a three-week trial for the California lawyer, who faces a statutory maximum of 42 years in prison when he is sentenced in June.
Cherry on top of the humble pie:
CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said Friday night that he felt “snookered” after learning that lawyer Michael Avenatti was convicted on charges of trying to extort athletic clothing company Nike for millions of dollars.
“I feel kind of snookered, because I took him seriously,” Toobin told CNN anchor Anderson Cooper during a segment about the conviction.
Toobin described the conviction as “total collapse” of Avenatti’s image, and recounted an instance where he was walking with the lawyer in Midtown, Manhattan and “it was like walking with a major, major celebrity.”
“People came up to him,” he said. “It’s like, you know, ‘Go for it! Go get Trump!’ You know, he had this hashtag #Basta. People remember that… I mean, the craziness of this.”
Second news item:
DOJ: We’re dropping McCabe investigation:
The Department of Justice is dropping its criminal investigation of former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe without bringing charges, it announced on Friday.
McCabe’s attorneys received a phone call and a letter from the US Attorney’s Office in DC on Friday announcing the declination.
“We write to inform you that, after careful consideration, the Government has decided not to pursue criminal charges against your client, Andrew G. McCabe, arising from the referral” made by the Inspector General’s office to investigate his behavior, the DC US Attorney’s Office wrote. McCabe’s attorneys released the letter on Friday. “Based on the totality of the circumstances and all of the information known to the Government at this time, we consider the matter closed.”
…A White House official said President Donald Trump was angered federal prosecutors’ decision not to pursue charges against McCabe.
Third news item:
More unintended consequences of going green:
A wind turbine’s blades can be longer than a Boeing 747 wing, so at the end of their lifespan they can’t just be hauled away. First, you need to saw through the lissome fiberglass using a diamond-encrusted industrial saw to create three pieces small enough to be strapped to a tractor-trailer.
The municipal landfill in Casper, Wyoming, is the final resting place of 870 blades whose days making renewable energy have come to end. The severed fragments look like bleached whale bones nestled against one another.
Tens of thousands of aging blades are coming down from steel towers around the world and most have nowhere to go but landfills. In the U.S. alone, about 8,000 will be removed in each of the next four years. Europe, which has been dealing with the problem longer, has about 3,800 coming down annually through at least 2022, according to BloombergNEF. It’s going to get worse: Most were built more than a decade ago, when installations were less than a fifth of what they are now.
Built to withstand hurricane-force winds, the blades can’t easily be crushed, recycled or repurposed. That’s created an urgent search for alternatives in places that lack wide-open prairies. In the U.S., they go to the handful of landfills that accept them, in Lake Mills, Iowa; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; and Casper, where they will be interred in stacks that reach 30 feet under.
Fourth news item:
Fifth news item:
Our project, “1776,” puts less of an emphasis on history and more on the question prophetically raised by Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., at the height of his civil rights revolution: “Where do we go from here?” Mindful of the inevitable criticism that his movement was subversive, King made a special effort to ground his historic 1963 “I Have a Dream” speech in “a dream as old as the American dream” by repeated references to the nation’s founding documents, including Abraham Lincoln’s “Gettysburg Address.” He assured friends and foes alike that his civil rights movement had come not to deny the gospel of the American dream, but to fulfill it.
We must disrupt the long-held stereotypes of black people as helpless bystanders in their own history. We have had entrepreneurs, skilled tradesmen, military officers, inventors, organizers, and many others who responded to adversity by marshaling resources, building local enterprises, and creating jobs. We organized and acted to defeat slavery, segregation, and deprivation, and then we persevered to build businesses that included banks, hotels, small factories, and a black-owned railroad.
In addition to the consequences of slavery, these contributions of black Americans should be at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are. Even in bondage, slaves had agency in various amounts, or to varying degrees, and they acted on it in a variety of ways. Those who prefer to focus on our victimization don’t always want to recognize it, but the ways our ancestors exercised agency in bondage formed the foundation of their successes (or failures) after they were freed.
Sixth news item:
They really need to stop eating their own:
As a bisexual young woman who only came out to her family after the Pulse shooting in case I didn’t survive my own Pride festival, I wanted to break down why the recent surge of articles on Pete’s sexuality are detrimental to the mental health + stability of young LGBTQ+ people…When I came out to my friends sophomore year of high school, I had simultaneously never felt more loved and more alone in my life. Loved because I had been “accepted” by people who loved me but alone because of the lack of queer equality in the US…I cannot imagine being a young, impressionable, LGBTQ+ person right now. Coming to terms with your sexuality as a young person is completely terrifying, and that is without the LITERAL constant barrage of news dissecting someone’s presentation as gay…NEWS FLASH: your “hot takes” on how Pete doesn’t fit your type of gay man are not only homophobic, they reinforce to the closeted youth that it may be THAT much harder for them to find acceptance, to find a support system…Imagine being ready to come out and reading an article saying “because Pete didn’t come out until he was 30 he isn’t the “right gay” or “”Pete doesn’t kiss his husband in public he isn’t really gay””…Imagine what that would do to a young person…They won’t have to imagine it, because it’s happening. It’s happening all around us and our community, and even from inside it…To queer people gatekeeping Pete’s sexuality: I hope you feel ashamed of the message you are sending to your most vulnerable members.
Have a great weekend.
–Dana
Good morning.
Dana (4fb37f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:18 amswc hardest hit.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:19 amBloomberg really wants to risk Arkancide? His choice I guess.
NJRob (4d595c) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:32 amDon’t forget the possibility of a stalking horse.
However, I think the CIA’s creature Pete Buttigieg has a real shot.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:38 amThe DDID investigated Trump’s spiritual life and found nothing spiritual. Palling around with evangelical leaders doesn’t count.
There are two things I’ve never heard Trump say or tweet: (1) a prayer or (2) that Christ is his personal Lord and Savior. By his acts–along with the things he’s said and not said–I’ve seen no evidence that Trump is a Christian, and it doesn’t help that his chief spiritual advisor–Paula White–subscribes to the heretical prosperity gospels.
Those evangelical leaders who believe Trump is on Team Christ are either idiots or fools or political grifters or any combination thereof.
In February 2016, Trump lied when he said, “Nobody reads the Bible more than me,” which is funny considering his blatant ignorance.
You can almost say that Trump never read Matthew 5:38-39.
Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:39 amWhen will America realize that every word Trump speaks should be presumed false until proven true?
Trump this morning:
Dana (4fb37f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:40 am
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:42 amFill in the blanks!
Donald Trump complaining that someone else lacked candor or lied four times is like ______________ complaining about _______________.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:43 amWhile there is no chapter about never bending to envy, I think that when Trump says he has “had that thing all of my life where people are bending to envy,” I think he really means that people have envied him all of his life. It’s not that he himself has ever been envious…
In Trump World, only losers are envious, not mere mortals fallen from grace.
Dana (4fb37f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:44 amPoor Donelle Twamp, adolescent mean gurl, never get her way…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:47 amTrump should pardon Michael Flynn and Roger Stone today.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:53 amTrump should pardon Michael Flynn and Roger Stone today.
Like the great line from Dracula; Dead and Loving It discussing giving a mental patient an enema…
It’ll give him a sense of accomplishment!
Close parallel there.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:57 amswc wrote on August 23, 2018:
As you can see from the tweet upthread, which I’ll go ahead and embed again, over a year later he was still confident about the indictment:
Someone replied to him and tried to explain what the rest of the world had already concluded: he wasn’t going to be charged.
I think they meant “grand” jury but otherwise quite right.
Sad!
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:58 amWe can all be wrong about things but someone please tell swc Hi! and also that it is desert island, not dessert island, unless he lives in Candyland.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:32 amMcCabe memo
mg (8cbc69) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:38 am1. rosy rosenstein’s eagerness to wear a wire
2. evidence that rosy took mueller to the white house on may 16 2017, to set up interview on mueller’s target.
3. redactions to the memo show efforts by the current ag ruby ridge barr to protect the corrupt intent of rosy rosenstein.
barr is in on it.
@5 Trump is a cultural Christian, as far as I can tell, not really an active believer. However, if he were an active a believer, I wouldn’t blame him for not talking about Christ being his personal Savior. That’s a thing with particular sets of Protestant groups in particular US subcultures, but there are a large number of US denominations and subcultures where that would be considered a weird and unnecessary way to express belief.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:38 am“I feel kind of snookered, because I took him seriously,” Toobin told CNN anchor Anderson Cooper during a segment about the conviction.
I read yesterday that Avenatti made something like 210 television appearances during the height of the left’s Avenatti-mania, and 180 of them were on CNN or MSNBC. So yeah, Toobin, you guys certainly did take him seriously. Idiots.
JVW (54fd0b) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:51 amAh well, who could’ve predicted this.
McCabe’s case will get broomed, and it will have nothing to do with Trump’s tweets. The Stevens prosecutors walked after having done worse. Nifong served one night in jail. Prosecutors don’t go after fellow prosecutors the same way they go after you and me. It’s the corrupt way of the world.
Munroe (33bad0) — 8/28/2019 @ 8:41 am
Always trust content from Munroe.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:54 amYeah, we can all be wrong about things but few were wrong with the kind of aggressively insulting style that swc constantly used against me:
So now that the official news on McCabe has come out, and he turns out to have been officially dead wrong, maybe he could find a way to convey his apologies for all the insults he leveled at me over the years.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:58 amLying to investigators is an outrage. Why, just ask the principled Trump critics here who are just fuming about it. Such rage. Just apoplectic about this McCabe guy. Please stop. All this anger is frightening.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:02 amNext prediction:
Clinesmith’s case will also get broomed.
And, this will be just as upsetting to all the principled Trump critics as the McCabe skate.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:07 am“Trump is a cultural Christian”
Trump is a cultural Mammonite.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:12 am@21 Don’t you get tired of your own people’s failtheater? Or maybe they were lying to you about there being anything there to begin with.
@22 Nah, he’s an active Mammonite.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:16 amThe cynic in me says that his character was repeatedly revealed through his insults over the years , thus apologies will certainly not be forthcoming. However, being charitable, I hope that his decency and better angels will compel him to apologize.
Dana (d444dc) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:26 am“Don’t you get tired of your own people’s failtheater?“
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:16 am
We’ll follow your example, Nic. In fact, we already have. Disappointed?
The Obama appointed IG will certainly be all broken up to hear you don’t like the report he put so much work into.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:34 amAnd, this will be just as upsetting to all the principled Trump critics as the McCabe skate.
Why do you hate the Americans who serve on grand juries?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:35 am@25 There you go again, assuming that anyone not into Trump is a Dem. I have no side. I’m an unaffiliated moderate. A plague on both your houses and such.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:38 amDonald Trump complaining that someone else lacked candor or lied four times is like Mordor complaining about open burning.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:45 amNic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:38 am
I’m an unaffiliated moderate, too. Proof: I said so.
I can probably count the times you directed the term “failtheater” to the side it most applies with all the fingers on my nonexistent, amputated left hand. You bring a moderate and all.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:46 am*being, not bring. Darn that left nub.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 11:47 am@29 I’ve used it against the Ds (mostly under HW). I think I’ve only used it a couple of other times against the Rs as well (the other 2 times I remember against the Rs were the endless pretend attempts to get rid of Obamacare and the various Hillary hearings that went nowhere.) It takes a special gift to have failtheater when your own party controls both legislative bodies and the executive branch.
If it will make you feel better, you can go read me being mean to Bernie in the Sanders post or saying the Ds were being dumb about the bullet train in that post. You, OTOH, have yet to stray against the current admin’s talking points. Woe, woe, it is the fault of the Deep State when Trump fails (over and over and over).
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:00 pmThere are no Republicans and Democrats this election season. There is only Trump and Anybody Not Trump.
nk (9651fb) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:06 pm32. And they all suck equally as bad.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:14 pm“Woe, woe, it is the fault of the Deep State when Trump fails (over and over and over).”
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:00 pm
McCabe, Stzrok, Page, Comey all fired. Ohr demoted and disgraced. McCabe and Comey disgraced, except in #NeverTrump circles. FISA court miffed. Clinesmith disgraced and awaiting his brooming and/or firing. Steele disgraced.
Trump still president and odds are pointing to re-election.
Your fail ledger wouldn’t survive a GAAP review.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:21 pm@34 Yep, Trump totally campaigned on firing random bureaucrats. “Did not actually quite manage to get thrown out of office.” is kind of the absolute minimum standard of performance. It’s like someone asking you if you accomplished anything today and you going, “Well, I didn’t get arrested.” The only real accomplishment Trump’s had was the tax cut that lost him the House and ratcheted up the debt. He’s only managed to get a tiny part of his stupid wall built (by fiat) and even that is getting blown down by not very strong winds.
You want an law enforcement related accomplishment? maybe he should try to actually reform the FISA courts instead of whining about them. Then he might have a thing.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:35 pmThey really need to stop eating their own
Judean People’s Front vs People’s Front of Judea (who both hate those splitters in the Judean Popular People’s Front)
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:41 pmI dunno about attacking people after they’re gone.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:43 pmthat it is desert island, not dessert island, unless he lives in Candyland.
Let he who is without typos cast the first stone. I am still waiting for the comment editing function 🙂
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:46 pmNifong served one night in jail.
Nifong was disbarred. That’s a penalty. He was also driven to bankruptcy by the lacrosse players lawsuits.
However, he has not, as yet, suffered any penalty for the following (Wikipedia)
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:51 pm‘It’s like someone asking you if you accomplished anything today and you going, “Well, I didn’t get arrested.”’
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:35 pm
So disappointing how you and others devoted the past three years on what seems to have been such an uninspiring objective.
You can aim higher, Nic.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:51 pmThere are no Republicans and Democrats this election season.
On a scale of 1 to 10, does anyone rise above 3?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:52 pmLying to investigators is an outrage.
Yes, it is, particularly by a fellow investigator. But it’s a crime that is so arbitrarily, if not capriciously charged, is often used as a threat, and often rests on “he said” vs “the cops said” (the FBI doesn’t record), that it degrades the concept of the Rule of Law.
Especially when the head of government can’t tell the same lie twice running.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 12:58 pmThe Deep State exists, and needs exposing. Trump is a fool. But someone had to rush in.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:00 pmBernie sanders leading in polls. Democrat establishment and donor class desperate to stop him even if it means trump’s reelection who they hate. They hate bernie more as he might raise their taxes!
asset (b56ce3) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:02 pm@40 I see you have no answer. Listen, if you want to pretend that the box of expired, stolen, gas station convenience store peanuts Trump gave you is the glorious Thanksgiving dinner he promised to cook you, that’s on you, but don’t expect the rest of us to pretend too.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:04 pmTrump and McCabe. Sounds like whataboutism.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:16 pmMcabe is quite the hero. Lied to The FBI. Leaked FBI information to the WSJ. Asked the DAG to wear a wire in a talk with the President of the united states and opened a “secret” investigation into “obstruction of Justice” when Trump fired his friend – James Comey.
Of course, we’ve found Mr. Soul of Honor, James Comey, in so many “misleading” (lets not call them lies) statements, not to mention leaks that somehow through some dubious technicality are NOT worthy of prosecution -that its hard to keep it straight.
Have we ever had, two of the top FBI men, secretly investigating the President of the USA while telling him he’s NOT under investigation? Or declaring how ethical they were, while secretly taking notes on the President’s private conversations? Both of them make J.Edgar Hoover look like St. Francis of Assi.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:25 pmThere is always an offer to return after a sincere apology.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:25 pmThe next one who should be fired in Michael Atkinson. The man who changed the Agency Whistle-blower form so “hearsay” could be used. The man was connected to the whole CIA-FBI Mueller fiasco. How he ended up at the IG is a mystery.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:28 pm“How he ended up at the IG is a mystery.”
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:28 pm
The federal behemoth is so big, it’s impossible to fill all positions with people who don’t think they should be in charge, to hell with the electorate.
Much like it’s impossible to assemble a fair DC jury.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:32 pmBTW, I don’t think the Establishment is truly interested in prosecuting anyone in the FISA scandal. I fully expect Barr to delay this till after the election. If Trump loses, the whole thing will be cancelled. If Trump wins, it will be dragged out, and then nothing will happen.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:33 pmHe predictions were not correct but he may never admit it so that is beyond annoying. I recommend the Three Day Rule. Be mad at what he has said and done for three days– you can be really mad, although obviously not violent or acting out in real life, but mad just the same– after that, forget it. He isn’t worth getting hurt over.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:36 pm#NeverTrump principles are evolving.
Then: Lying to investigators is bad. Lock him up!
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:51 pmNow: The lying liar enemy of my enemy is a superhero.
The man who changed the Agency Whistle-blower form so “hearsay” could be used.
The ONLY place where hearsay is a problem is under courtroom rules of evidence, and ONLY in limited settings at that. For instance, if a party states something or their agent states something, that is NOT hearsay.
Outside that, we all use hearsay every day. “Jim, the boss said we need to unload this truck.” It’s just a normal part of human communication.
You don’t understand the concept any better than “whataboutism”, which is just a form of ad hominem fallacy.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:52 pm@43.The Deep State exists, and needs exposing.
It’s a head fake. You’re looking the wrong way; start w/t likes of the Bohemian Grove.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:53 pmThen: Lying to investigators is bad. Lock him up!
Now: The lying liar enemy of my enemy is a superhero.
You’re just getting silly. And being untruthful.
Again, why do you hate the Americans who serve on grand juries?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:56 pmIs it really an attack on someone (who is gone) when what they’ve said publicly is simply being quoted back? I don’t think it is.
Dana (4fb37f) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:58 pm@17. Can’t fault him for fleshing out the meat of the Stormy story. Tasty TeeVee. ‘Course the ‘idiots’ are those who take television lawyers “seriously” to begin with– opinion pitchers and sh!t shovellers all.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:59 pm“Again, why do you hate the Americans who serve on grand juries?”
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 1:56 pm
Let’s see if I can play.
Why do you hate the Senators who acquitted Trump and the voters who put them in office?
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:04 pmPerhaps this swc guy was overoptimistic about justice in America.
Make America Ordered Again (da203d) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:08 pmSomething like this reminds me of it, but while I like your rule, I don’t intend to spend three days or even three more minutes worrying about it. If I spent three days being mad about everything that annoys me I’d be mad all the time. That’s no way to live.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:24 pmWhy do you hate the Senators who acquitted Trump and the voters who put them in office?
That’s two questions and no answer.
I don’t hate T-rump voters. Many of them voted their conscience.
I hate what various senators did and the craven nature of their conduct. Don’t you?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:26 pmPerhaps this swc guy was overoptimistic about justice in America.
You keep using that word…
You know the rest!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:30 pm2 ears of corn kernels cut from the ear
DRJ,
tried this and am now addicted.
1 tablespoon olive oil
mg (8cbc69) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:31 pm1/2teaspoon salt
1 pound bay scallops
2 tablespoons lime mayonnaise
1teaspooncrumbled Mexican queso anejo or queso fresco,
1teaspoon guajillo chile powder
2 tablespoons fresh cilantro leaves
12 warm corn tortillas
Heat the kernels of corn in a hot cast iron pan in oil until slightly charred. a few minutes. add the scallops don’t overcook! mix in with the lime mayonnaise add the toppings and enjoy.
swc is 100% wrong in his prediction. I get that. And if he was aggressive or offensive in how he expressed that to people, that’s entirely on him.
However, after the IG report and his firing due to his lack of candor in sworn testimony, a reasonable person—who believed the federal government believes in the rule of law—could expect him to be tried for that and many people must be scratching their head about why he wasn’t (maybe there is a reason, such as insufficient proof, but really the government should come out and explain why not).
I find it hard to fault him, however, for being the sort of person who would, with certainty, believe that… however wrong he was.
Which is a lot. I’m not exactly convinced about the government’s desire to apply laws even-handedly at this point.
Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/15/2020 @ 2:49 pmPatterico, I am always glad to see you posts (and your collaborators). Also so many fine comments by people who aren’t just throwing verbal bombs around.
The past couple of years I have been dealing with all kinds of unpleasant behavior from others (you know about, since we exchange e-mails once in a while). All the nastiness everywhere is so bloody tiring. And yet some people seem to derive joy and energy from it. Fine for them; I just don’t want to deal with them.
My point, as always, is that you get to set your own rules. And even at your angriest (and there is so much to be angry about these days) I always learn a great deal from your point of view. And that is true whether or not I agree with you on a given subject (though I do not think we disagree much). In fact, I would contend I learn *more* when I disagree with you.
So thank you—and your collaborators—for keeping this site up and running. And best wishes as always.
Simon Jester (9ac1a0) — 2/15/2020 @ 3:16 pmSmugglers in Juárez have engineered camouflage hook-and-ladders made of rebar that blend in so well with the border wall that it can be hard to detect, according to U.S. Border Patrol. The ladders are the same rust brown color as the mesh panels or steel beams of the fence.
El Paso’s urban stretch of border is littered with the rusted rebar ladders at the base on both sides — ladders lying in wait on the Mexican side, ladders pulled down by border agents or abandoned by smugglers on the U.S. side. One of the rebar ladders was poking out of a dumpster in a lot near the Chihuahuita neighborhood on Thursday.
————————————————
Someone (raises his right paw) predicted this…and LOTS of other stuff…that would defeat “duh wall” (which is really a fence which is smarter).
Remember what Patton said about fixed fortifications?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 3:46 pmAutomated guns would work better. Could have a human operator in the loop to double check the camera/other sensor feed and make a call.
Yes. I’m joking.
Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/15/2020 @ 3:55 pmJust checking in from the Orlando Solar Bears hockey game where the Eustice Heights Elementary School Chorus sang the national anthem. Nobody seemed to care if they were on key or not. It’s Veterans Appreciation Night. Understand POTUS DJT will be Grand Marshal Starter or something for the Daytona 500 just up the road tomorrow. And the SB’s scored at 1:10. Just thought I’d gloat. God bless America.
PTw (a1b7cb) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:12 pmNobody does ’80s camp better than Netflix. I am totally convinced that GLOW, The Dirt (Motley Crue biopic) and Narcos-Mexico could have believable crossovers.
urbanleftbehind (c23245) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:22 pmI watched a pretty artsy series on Netflix about Trotsky. Generally I thought it as good. Not a G rating, of course. One of my favorites is The Last Kingdom.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:31 pmAvenatti stealing Stormy’s book money is what really bothered me. I’d like to see the verdict and sentence in that case.
nk (9651fb) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:31 pmI’m not sure what that even means, but it sounds like he’s conveying that he’s not a Christian but plays one on TV.
Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:32 pmNice to see you, Simon Jester. I hope you and yours are well.
Dana (4fb37f) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:33 pmIs it really an attack on someone (who is gone) when what they’ve said publicly is simply being quoted back? I don’t think it is.
Keep that in mind when Rush Limbaugh’s own words fill the public airwaves when he dies.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:34 pm73. Trump is a cultural Christian…
He’s a Presbyterian.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:36 pmNo, I think these days Trump is a cult Christian. That’s what I’d call the evangelical jacklegs he pals around with. Cults.
nk (9651fb) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:43 pm76 reminds me of a line from St. Elsewhere. Terribly conceited older heart surgeon and young Hindu resident are trapped in an elevator, and the Hindu kid goes on at some length about spiritualism. The cranky old heart surgeon finally explodes and shouts, “Don’t give me any of that spiritual crap! I’m an Episcopalian fer chrissakes!”
IIRC…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:44 pm@73 Basically it’s someone who picks up most of their knowledge of Christianity through the culture rather than through study or church attendance. The holidays without the real meaning, the language without knowing where or why those phrases came about. Maybe a way of talking about things picked up from family or school. For some people, a vague set of morals without known the why behind them (I don’t personally think that Trump has morals, but, you know, for other people). That kind of thing.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/15/2020 @ 4:50 pmI’d say t-rump was a close student of The First Book Of Roy Cohn, King Cobra Edition.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:01 pmCoup Bait or Coup Porn
urbanleftbehind (c23245) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:01 pmMy bad! I didn’t explain it very well. The rule was created by a law firm friend and my mentor who later became a federal judge. He found that litigants handled decisions fairly well. Often they were just glad to have it over with. But the lawyers would hold grudges against each other or the judge. They had invested so much of themselves and, as bar members practicing in federal court, saw each other regularly. They could mostly handle losing but the details, the disputes, the battle, and the insults (perceived or real) stuck with them.
So instead of expecting everyone to “just get over it,” the judge gave everyone permission to be mad for no more than three days. After that, get over it no matter how upset you were. You could still pursue any appropriate appeals, rule violations, ethical complaints, etc., but the emotional baggage had to be forgotten at some point during that three day period.
Frankly, I found that this rule works well, not only in my profession but in life. Sometimes people need time to be mad instead of ignoring the emotional aspects of disputes or problems. But sometimes they also can’t find a way to stop the process. This helps, and it usually means that you spend far less time being angry.
I can’t remember the last time it took me an actual three days to stop being irritable. Giving myself permission to be upset about problems, disputes, or feeling wronged … while knowing I had to end it at a fixed point in time … made it much easier for me to identify what bothered me and work it out. Don’t we all do better with deadlines, rather than continually procrastinating or endlessly reviewing the issue in our minds?
DRJ (15874d) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:03 pmDo we actually know that the McCabe matter was submitted to the grand jury and they refused to indict? All I could find online was speculation that that is what happened, and that the DOJ refused to say one way or the other. But this was from September 2019.
Anyone have any links confirming what happened?
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:03 pmIf you are 73 years old and you are still talking like this…. maybe, just maybe… IT IS WHO YOU ARE.
“Because we put all the cops in the minority neighborhoods. Yes, that is true. Why did we do it? Because that’s where all the crime is, and the way you get the guns out of the kid’s hands is to throw them up against the walls and frisk them.” Mike Bloomberg
Rewind and play that again: “throw them up against the walls”.
noel (4d3313) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:17 pmCNN reports that the DOJ sent this letter to McCabe’s lawyers announcing he would not be indicted.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:19 pmThere was speculation that the grand jury refused to indict but the letter does not say that.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:22 pmBy the way, the Three Day Rule does not work with our President because he can’t go three days without stirring up a new hornet’s net of reasons to be irritated. I think of him as the exception to the rule so you are on your own there.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:27 pmIs anybody else getting excited for the return of Better Call Saul? My elderly mother (88-years-old) sure is. By some miracle, she has learned how to use a DVR, and has already set it to record. During previous seasons she has actually called me to discuss episodes of the show!
This is all very amusing to me, because when I was a kid I couldn’t even shanghai my parents to sit down and watch TV. And don’t even get me started about their prohibition of TV on Sunday.
norcal (a5428a) — 2/15/2020 @ 5:56 pmI hate what various senators did and the craven nature of their conduct. Don’t you?
You misspelled “political”. And you may be right if you were to say that political acceptance of bad conduct (aka mis-demeanor) is a problem. But it did not start with Trump. The whole Lois Lerner/Tea Party/IRS Keelhauling thing, with lost data and oops lost backup data and double-oops scrubbed long-term storage tape backup data and nothing-to-see-here-move-along out of the Obama White House was bad enough. The craven acceptance of that by the GOP establishment was a signpost on the road to Trump.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:04 pmI do wonder though what this impeachment is a signpost on the road to.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:06 pmSigh. Haven’t smiled at a presidential ballot since 2004. These parties are completely dysfunctional.
Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:06 pmI’m not sure what that even means, but it sounds like he’s conveying that he’s not a Christian but plays one on TV.
It means if he goes to church, he goes to a Christian church. But he doesn’t usually and pretty much doesn’t believe any of it. Like a Jew who believes in his people and maybe Israel, but thinks God is an illusion.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:09 pmBy the way, the Three Day Rule does not work with our President
Or with most of them, really. Even if they are mute, their supporters will take up the slack.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:11 pmSigh. Haven’t smiled at a presidential ballot since 2004. These parties are completely dysfunctional.
The 2012 ballot had 2 qualified candidates. Less so 2008. 2016 had a “2” vs a “1”. W did not cover himself in glory 2005-9, but Kerry would have done worse.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:15 pmIf we look at how Trump lives his life, there isn’t much to lead me to believe that he is a Christian. What he says and does are not reflective of any Godly qualities or fruits of the Spirit that identify a person of faith. Even a believer who is struggling reflects God’s grace. Vindictiveness, anger, revenge, haughtiness, pride, corruption, dishonesty and self-promotion do not reflect Christ on any way, shape or form. They simply reflect Trump at his core.
Dana (4fb37f) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:20 pmnoel at 84. Well, sometimes you gotta slam a rapscallion.
nk (9651fb) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:29 pmWith all due respect, you should take it back.
Excerpted from “Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Presidency” by Ramesh Ponoru on February 6, 2020, in National Review.
Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/15/2020 @ 6:55 pmMuslims consider abortion after the fourth month homicide. They’re such good Christians.
nk (9651fb) — 2/15/2020 @ 7:13 pmDuh Donald also got out of his limo and shook a fireman’s hand.
He is a reality show guy, and he does a few things transactionally because he knows he’d better or it will cost him.
That is NOT “godly”. It is, in fact, cynical and Clintonesque.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/15/2020 @ 7:17 pmI’ve been down on McCabe since I first heard his name.
https://patterico.com/2016/10/24/whoa-clinton-crony-funded-political-campaign-of-wife-of-fbi-official-who-oversaw-email-investigation/
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 7:36 pmHilarious to think such anger fueled Trump’s campaign when Trump embodies the same sort of corruption…
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 7:37 pmGrand jury proceedings are secret, so any conclusions about them are necessarily (often educated) speculation.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/15/2020 @ 7:54 pmGrand jury proceedings are secret, so any conclusions about them are necessarily (often educated) speculation.
That is my belief too.
But then that undercuts all the snark about, the grand jury refused to indict him, so he must be innocent. And then invoke the old saw about a ham sandwich.
So the real truth is, we just don’t know.
BTW, here is Andrew McCarthy’s take, which is that while the guy is a scum and committed crimes, the DOJ thinks it will be too hard to prove.
Why Wasn’t Andrew McCabe Charged?
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/15/2020 @ 8:21 pmThe proof that he willfully deceived investigators appears strong, but the Justice Department likely felt there were too many obstacles to convicting him.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/02/why-wasnt-andrew-mccabe-charged/
Well, you can argue appearances, but in fact McCabe did nothing unethical.
It is well-documented that he pro-actively sought guidance from the FBI’s ethics office prior to his wife’s announcement of her candidacy, and that he followed the office’s recommendations.
Further, the money did not come from Hillary Clinton, or any Clinton; there has never been any evidence that Clinton was even aware of it; McAuliffe made even larger donations to other democrats running for the state senate. And as you say, McCabe had no involvement of any kind with the Clinton investigation until three months after the campaign was over.
If his wife accepting routine campaign donations from a prominent Democrat requires him to recuse himself for life from any matter involving a Democrat (and any matter involving a Republican too, presumably?) then it seems unreasonable to me.
Dave (1bb933) — 2/15/2020 @ 8:52 pmExcerpted from “Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Presidency” by Ramesh Ponoru on February 6, 2020, in National Review.
Pandering to pro-life voters is not being a Christian.
Kishnevi (8f6228) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:04 pmI think one version of describing a Christian living a Christian life is that they demonstrate “the fruits of the Spirit” listed in Galatians 5. Now go read Galatians 5 and decide how many fruits of the Spirit and how many works of the flesh are apparent in Trump.
And this from the Mishnah, Pirke Avot 5:19, dating from the period the Church could still be called the “primitive Church”, possibly even before Jesus.
I’ll leave it to you to decide if Trump fits best as a disciple of Abraham or of Balaam.
Kishnevi (8f6228) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:10 pmTwo very good comments, Kish. Thank you.
felipe (023cc9) — 2/15/2020 @ 9:28 pmhttps://www.theblaze.com/news/kate-steinles-killer-found-incompetent-to-stand-trial
San Francisco continues to prove there is no justice if you don’t fit the pre-approved criteria or if your attacker has more victim points than you.
NJRob (4d595c) — 2/15/2020 @ 10:50 pmFrom the Steinle article:
Why is his attorney going to argue that he’s competent to stand trial?
Dave (1bb933) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:58 amBecause, Comrade Dave, if you are incompetent to stand trial, you do not get trial. You are locked up indefinitely in “mental health facility”, doped to the gills with Thorazine, till comrade government doctor tell comrade judge you are competent to stand trial.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 5:35 amBut then that undercuts all the snark about, the grand jury refused to indict him, so he must be innocent.
Maybe I didn’t see it, but the second half of that formulation is lacking in this thread.
“A least one grand jury failed to indict him.” Full stop. And, granted, we don’t know the facts about the grand jury issue, but we can use logic.
And I don’t think anybody said he’s “innocent”.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 5:55 amA DC grand jury probably understood that it’s an FBI agent’s (that’s what McCabe was) job to keep a Russian asset from getting his short orange fingers on our nuclear codes.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 6:06 amThe Senate and its once-formidable Finance Committee are, Toomey believes, being “marginalized” and made “irrelevant” as the executive wields authority delegated to it by Congress — but without Congress insisting on compliance with the terms of the delegation. The question, Toomey says, is: “Are we willing to enforce our own law that governs the proceedings of this body?”
https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2020/02/senates-self-degradation-even-depressing-trumps-misbehavior/
The USMCA is a piece of crap predicated on a set off Trump lies and now sold to the US as the best trade agreement eveh! It also has the vice of being illegal.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 6:13 amAccording to Dave on the other thread, the lie that McCabe told was that he was not responsible for contradicting another leak (that someone else had wanted him to make) that the investigation of the Clinton Foundation had been wrapped up. It wasn’t true….yet.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/16/2020 @ 6:48 amhttps://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2020/02/16/biden-accuses-sanders-not-enough-gun-grabber/
Ah, memories…
Hell, I’m so old I remember when another lying demagogue was waxing large about “carnage” in America.
Well, what’s good for the goose…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 6:51 amSo striving to save many innocent children’s lives isn’t?
Your position is wretched and, really, unreasonably filled with hatred of the man. I would say that’s not of the spirit.
Make America Ordered Again (22b5bc) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:02 amIt is neither unreasonable or hateful to be realistic about T-rump and his campaign conversionssssss and transactional nature.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:14 amIf you say fruits are the criteria to evaluate someone on, then you can’t just discard all those that go against your conclusion.
Of course, you do.
Make America Ordered Again (22b5bc) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:24 amAnyway, Buttigieg will be the Democratic nominee. Bloomberg is acting as a generic stalking horse for the nominee most likely to save the Party from Bernie, and this cycle that’s intelligence creature Buttigieg.
Make America Ordered Again (22b5bc) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:27 amIf you say fruits are the criteria to evaluate someone on, then you can’t just discard all those that go against your conclusion.
Except that is not my argument.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:35 amMAOA, by your standard this lady is a Christian
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2017/10/19/atheists-case-against-abortion-respect-human-rights
You do know Trump was for abortion before he was against it?
I don’t hate Trump. I despise him.
Believing in God and trying to live what Christianity calls “the godly life” involves many things, of which opposing abortion is actually a minor thing. (Test your Bible knowledge: find all the times Jesus mentions abortion and homosexuality in the Gospels.)
Kishnevi (954c2e) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:38 amMAOA, which of the following does Trump demonstrate ?
I can’t see even one thing on that list that might describe Trump.
Kishnevi (954c2e) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:42 amNo, you’re the one who made the argument, not me. I’m saying you’re being unfair to throw out this “fruits” argument, say he has none, then discard someone’s positives, when there are actually some pretty huge positives, such as the big one I pointed out.
I’m not arguing Trump is a deeply spiritual Christian; I’m saying you’re not being consistent with your own argument and are special pleading, big time.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:43 amSome years ago there was a realtor whose best friend got arrested for DWI. This idiot went into court, presented himself as an attorney, and argued his friend was innocent.
When the judge found out he was not a licensed attorney, he was arrested and jailed. TREC revoked his real estate license and fined him $5,000. His friend had his driver’s license revoked and was jailed and fined as well.
Avenatti got what he deserved. Stealing from clients is the most egregious offense. He should be disbarred and sentenced to twenty years in prison. But then so should Giuliani, whose offenses are far worse.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:51 amMAOA, it’s a very small positive, and one that is shared by many nonChristians, and one that politically benefits him. So it’s not evidence of how good a Christian he is.
And if a person is not a deeply spiritual Christian, then how good a Christian are they.
Kishnevi (954c2e) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:56 amJust gross that you could write this.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:09 amComrade nk is right, as always. Comrade attorney explained (h/t Hot Air):
Dave (1bb933) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:32 amJust gross that you could write this.
But is isn’t a fair depiction of what he wrote.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:32 amBlooms is more than stalking horse, he is also being used to tease out the degree to which NeverTrump* (which used to be Neocon and/or mugged —) would crossover and, more importantly, where at (geographically).
*Narrower definition; I would describe the majority of the participants here to be more Perfectionist Conservative than simply NeverTrump.
urbanleftbehind (ccd16e) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:35 amIf it bothers people so much, go to a thrift or uniform store, buy a set of scrubs and sneak in through the HVAC at whatever loony bin, no different than I would tell somebody who really had it in for Roger Stone.
urbanleftbehind (ccd16e) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:38 amNot me. I’m #NeverTrump. He makes my skin crawl.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:30 am“A least one grand jury failed to indict him.” Full stop. And, granted, we don’t know the facts about the grand jury issue, but we can use logic.
And I don’t think anybody said he’s “innocent”.
What is the source of the statement ““A least one grand jury failed to indict him?”
I have yet to see that confirmed anywhere.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:34 amAnd you don’t have to be spiritual to be a Christian (thank God).
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:36 am— Obey the Commandments.
— Love God.
— Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
You will fall short, but that’s why we have God’s Grace in the person of His Son.
That’s funny, because my wife gave her mother this wonderful NIV with commentaries and such, and my mother-in-law replied, “Thank you so much, but we are Episcopalians, you know,” as if that was supposed to mean, well, something.
Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:38 amJust because the “Ethics officer” says its Ok, doesn’t make it OK. Who appointed the “Ethics officer”? Does the “Ethics Officer” have an agenda? Who knows.
Anybody with a brain knows it doesn’t look good – or ethical – when you’re wife is a Democrat politician and gets $400,000 from a Clinton associate, when you’re the FBI deputy director involved – however tangentially – in investigating Hillary’s emails.
We now know that both McCabe and Comey loathed Trump politically. Their I”m a “Life Long Republican” was a ridiculous dodge. Not surprising since Comey is proud of his uber-liberal wife and daughters, and McCabe is the husband of a liberal Democrat Politician. Again, who appointed Comey? obama. Who appointed McCabe? Comey.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:43 amWe also know that both McCabe and Comey are liars. So, their protestations they were Unaffected by their wives politics or that either was a “Life Long Republican” cannot be believed.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:45 amThat’s what I told the last evangelical (a Baptist) who rang my doorbell. But I said “We’re Greek Orthodox”, not “Episcopalian”. It’s along the lines of “Teach your grandmother to suck eggs.”
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:46 amSettle down, please.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:07 amWhat’s with all this grand jury proceedings are super secret stuff when the only thing we have is a report that the DOJ aren’t going to prosecute the fired false testifier?
It sounds like a corrupt dodge.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:11 amI don’t see how anyone, least of all a believing Christian attacking Trump for not bearing any positive fruit, can consider a staunch pro-life presidency “a very small thing” is what I meant to say.
But the big things include kish’s estimations of Trump’s demeanor.
I don’t get it.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:13 amBored Lawyer, if you’re interested in the evidence that McCabe’s grand jury met and failed to indict, read this post at Lawfare. The basic building blocks of the conclusion are: McCabe was told by DoJ that his final appeals seeking not to be prosecuted had been rejected by a Deputy Attorney General; such decisions are generally followed by an immediate indictment; the Washington Post reported (as characterized by Lawfare) that “the grand jury panel originally investigating McCabe was reconvened on Thursday after an absence of months” in keeping with the usual timing of an immediate indictment after a rejection of internal appeals … and then no indictment was returned. If it walks like a no bill, and quacks like a no bill (I know ducks have bills which confuses the analogy but stay with me here), it’s likely a no bill.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:18 amJurecic and Wittes say in the Lawfare post:
Wow.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:20 amEven whether they were sent to a grand jury?
So, the public won’t know if a grand jury of average citizens concluded he shouldn’t be prosecuted or whether or was some government functionary of political appointee?
That can’t be right, is it? That wouldn’t even be fair to the suspect’s reputation, much less the public’s ability to have confidence in the justice system.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:21 amSorry for the typos. On cell. But I think the gist is understandable.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:22 am#116 — I don’t think the “fruits of the spirit” principle means promoting a few policies that Christians like as a way to get their adulation — which is what Trump really cares — while being conspicuously selfish, dishonest, callous and vindictive most of the time.
Conservatives have long mocked the liberals who think they’re being generous and compassionate by voting for redistributive policies while they’re stingy with their one money. Many of those same conservatives now insist that all of Trump’s self-centered meanness is more than atoned by public policy that he finds it expedient to support, while they ignore issues they used to care about (the national debt, the imperial presidency, etc.) and abandon their former belief that “character matters,” as long as the subject is Trump. Some of them even write quasi-intellectual pieces telling us why we should give Trump an exemption on standards they used to argue for.
It is not unreasonable to criticize that special indulgence toward a malignant narcissist, or to have a strong dislike of the person that Trump regularly shows himself to be. But go ahead and keep pretending it’s all just “hatred” that somehow preexisted any conceivable basis for it.
Radegunda (24de45) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:23 am141 and 142 — That was the very article I read, and I find it all speculation. Now I understand that grand jury proceedings being secret (in the federal system at least), that is all they have to go on. But it is still speculative. May have happened, may not have happened.
I repeat what I said. If I were President, I would order the DOJ to write up a memo explaining in detail why they chose not to prosecute McCabe, and justifying that in light of the Flynn and Papadopolous prosecutions. (Leave out Stone, who is two levels worse than the others, IMO.) Maybe there is a good explanation. Maybe not. But if equal justice under the law means anything, the public is entitled to know.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:27 amPatterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:20 am
Their mistake was trying to indict a prosecutor instead of a ham sandwich.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:30 amburn the department of justice To the ground
mg (3f839a) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:33 amWhen will the tax payer tell dc to shove it?
mg (3f839a) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:35 amWhen did McCabe become a “prosecutor”? He was career FBI, starting as SWAT and ending up as Deputy Director.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:39 amI have long advocated for a tax strike.
But I am a radical conservative (the root for “radical” is “radis” or root). I think in terms of going to the essence of problems.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:40 amI could at least credit arguments that Trump does v, w, x, y, and z wrong, and only does a and b for political reasons. But at least give credit that a is a big deal from a Christian perspective, not a small positve, even if it’s just him pandering; therefore you’re of the opinion he’s overall a bad guy inside (you could be right) and also by the majority of his outward effects (there we’d disagree).
I can give all sorts of people I don’t like, even believe are criminals (e.g., Bill Clinton), credit for doing some good things, whatever their lousy motives.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:41 amLisa Page gloats about two-tiered justice:
“Cheers, Andy.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/natseclisa/status/1228426073131692037?ref_url=https%3a%2f%2fdailycaller.com%2f2020%2f02%2f15%2fandrew-mccabe-leak-denial-lisa-page%2f
Some responses:
“He’s married”
“I thought it was Peter you were seeing?”
“Apparently it was McCabe’s peter”
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:41 am‘“When did McCabe become a “prosecutor”? He was career FBI, starting as SWAT and ending up as Deputy Director.’
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:39 am
Yeah, well that makes all the difference in the world.
Let’s agree that he was never a ham sandwich.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:44 amI would order the DOJ to write up a memo explaining in detail why they chose not to prosecute McCabe…
I think that such a memo would violate several canons of professional ethics.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:44 amJulio Rosas
@Julio_Rosas11
.
@brianstelter asked @lachlan if it was stupid on Stelter’s part to suggest Michael Avenatti could be a serious presidential candidate:
https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1229082073253675009?s=20
__ _
Tom Casey
@06Tomcasey
·
It really is an echo chamber for these people. They have no self awareness.
__ _
Excessively Diverted
@JuliaGulia809
·
@brianstelter and @lachlan
“We elevated a slime ball to rock star status because we thought he would help take Trump down but our total lack of judgment is Trump’s fault because Avenatti is so much like Trump.”
Got it. 😳
harkin (b64479) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:47 am_
Will Chamberlain made much the same point in a recent video posted on the OpenMind YouTube channel. I think it’s a great idea. Maybe there is some reason for the no prosecution, and one could understand that the government can’t override a grand jury finding (although one may still have suspicions about how hard the government tried to get the indictment). But a lot of people are losing faith in the federal justice system right about now.
Seems if you lie where that’s illegal and you’re a Trump supporter, you’re going down and with huge sentencing recommendations to boot. If you have far more power, like an acting FBI Director or DIA director, and you lie under oath it’s “meh” if you’re on the left. And people are upset by that.
Chamberlain made one other point, that this unequal application of the law, as it’s perceived by many of us, amounts to the law being unfair and unjustice. So, according to him, Trump should immediately pardon Stone and Flynn.
Chamberlain also thinks this would be politically beneficial to Trump now. Because, yes, he’ll be attacked by the media for it and, of course, this blog and others. At the same time, Trump’s supporters expect him to protect Trump’s people, if the law is being applied unfairly against them with destruction of their lives in mind, and this isn’t being done to those on the left who act similarly, but in many cases had more power and responsibility. He thinks this is necessary for Trump to maintain the support of his base.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:48 amMany of those same conservatives now insist that all of Trump’s self-centered meanness is more than atoned by public policy that he finds it expedient to support, while they ignore issues they used to care about (the national debt, the imperial presidency, etc.) and abandon their former belief that “character matters,” as long as the subject is Trump.
This talk conflates religious judgment of Trump with political judgmment. A couple of weeks ago, I posted the following letter I had seen in the WSJ (apparently sent in reaction to an article they had done):
At the time, no one took me up on commenting on it.
As I see it, there is a great deal of sentiment that, yes, Trump is seriously flawed, but as a politician he is better than the alternative, both on a secular level, and on his impact on religious people and communities.
Now that is my perspective as a member of what always was and is a religious minority in the country. But apparently some evangelicals feel the same way.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:49 amprofessional ethics in dc or with any lawyer is laughable
mg (3f839a) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:50 amI would order the DOJ to write up a memo explaining in detail why they chose not to prosecute McCabe…
I think that such a memo would violate several canons of professional ethics.
Care to cite any? Such memos are often done, at least internally. If you are an ADA, and you recommend not to prosecute someone, isn’t the DA entitled to know why?
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:51 amI can give all sorts of people I don’t like, even believe are criminals (e.g., Bill Clinton), credit for doing some good things, whatever their lousy motives.
As can…and do…I. But the question YOU raised involved Duh Donald’s standing as a Christian.
Nooooooopbody suggested that T-rump’s abortion stuff isn’t incidentally good. Just as his judicial appointments are good, AND if he deviated from the Federalist’s recommendations it would be hell-fire and brimstone from his base.
Ergo, what I said above.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:54 amNo, I didn’t raise that. You have that wrong and can scroll up to see that.
It was someone attacking Donald Trump as not a Christian because he doesn’t bear any positive fruits. I therefore pointed out a very big one (I could have picked others, but chose just one for simplicity) and challenged the argument raised.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:55 amHilarious to think such anger fueled Trump’s campaign when Trump embodies the same sort of corruption…
And yet it does. That it isn’t logical neglects the non-logical voter. Brutus had the better argument about Caesar, but Antony carried the day. Most people never get past the froth.
If Reagan was the television candidate, Trump is the YouTube candidate.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:56 am**Yeah, well that makes all the difference in the world.
Let’s agree that he was never a ham sandwich.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:44 am**
No, let’s agree that violating the FBI Employee Manual is not necessarily an indictable crime.
Besides, you’re doing it wrong. You’re supposed to say: He IS a prosecutor. He IS a prosecutor. Nobody knows prosecutors better than me. Believe you me. He IS a prosecutor.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:58 amprofessional ethics in dc or with any lawyer is laughable
That’s BS. I’m a lawyer, and I’ve known MANY lawyers that were the most ethical people you’d ever have the privilege of meeting. I’ve also known…and practiced against…some real slugs. Just like any cross-section of people doing anything.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 10:59 amhttps://hotair.com/archives/karen-townsend/2020/02/16/klobuchar-lurches-left-nevada-flip-flops-immigration/
Every single candidate running for the leftist nomination is an open borders, anti-American sovereignty radical. Choose wisely.
NJRob (4d595c) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:00 amIt’s more than incidental. You’re special pleading when you credit a list of his faults, some of which are pretty minor (demeanor, for example) and downgrade his pro-life presidency to “incidental” or “very small.”
I’d be OK with dropping this conversation because there, above, is my point in a nutshell.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:00 amMy experience as a layperson is similar: some are decent.
However, the perception of the DOJ right now is in the toilet and transparency about the decision to drop the McCabe prosecution would be nice going on essential for public confidence in it.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:04 amRussia and Syria and Iran are squeezing the amount of territory in northwest Syria (Idlib) province outside of government control. They are opposed by Turkey and the Islamist groups it supports.
Russia is not abiding by various de-confliction agreements it has agreed to. The are not quite abiding by the agreements they have with the United States in the east, too, getting closer to U.S. troops than they are supposed to. (U.S. troops are somewhat near oil fields)
Civilian areas are being bombed in Idlib. It is creating the greatest refugee movement in the history of the Syrian civil war. They cannot go into Turkey. The Syrian army will probably also not go into Turkey. Erdogan wants a “safe zone” but maybe he can;t create one outside the international boundaries of Turkey, because NATO will defend that territory against a Syrian/Russian incursion (Russia is the Air Force) but probably will not defend any Turkish zone inside Syria. Erdogan doesn’t want refugees unless they can proceed further – Russian propaganda and support for some political parties is making it very difficult for European governments to take in more refugees.
Putin is creating a problem for the west with the end goal being that nobody should care about human rights, even the right to life, anywhere, or anywhere Russia is involved. You can call it diabolical.
Turkey is also the the other side of Russia in Libya but there there may not be any Russians in combat. It’s more proxies there.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:07 am“ When I was at the Department of Justice, it was no different. I wrote a whole wild book about the prevailing madness, years before the country got a taste of Andrew Weissmann’s partisan biases.
Justice Department “career lawyers” are highly skilled at finding reasons to kill cases against cabinet officials who disclose top-secret information, put State Department emails on private servers, or who lie on FISA warrant applications. The lessons learned in Ivy League law schools are put to good use in developing plausible excuses to avoid any grand jury presentations — at least plausible excuses to the Washington Post and now bankrupt McClatchy.
After all, did any of the “career lawyers” bring the Holder criminal contempt findings to a grand jury? Did former U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu agree or disagree with their inactivity?
These are some of the unanswered questions that led to a president yanking a nomination.
But when the target is Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, or dozens of Trump campaign officials who were served with grand jury subpoenas, by golly have the “career lawyers” got an argument in favor of action.
This is what the president began to realize was happening at the United States Attorney office in the District of Columbia – biased justice.
It wasn’t just the Trump campaign being targeted for unequal justice by the U.S. Attorney’s office.
It was the sweetheart deal for the Awan brothers, the dynamic duo who worked for Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz who may have been involved in foreign espionage when they stole data from House email servers.
It was the manipulated outcome in another national security matter involving Democrat senate intelligence staffer James Wolfe, who leaked secret data to his girlfriend. Liu actually signed off of that plea personally, joined by “career attorneys” Jocelyn Ballantine and Tejpal Chawla. For lying to the FBI, Wolfe got two months. For the same behavior, Liu’s “career prosecutors” recommended nine years.
It was the non-prosecution of former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for lying to investigators about his media leaks.
It was the collusion with Mueller’s special prosecutors in allowing them to punt the Ukraine-related prosecution of Obama lawyer Greg Craig to Liu’s shop. Mueller and his team avoided an embarrassing prosecution of an Obama pal and Liu’s “career lawyers” prosecuted the case in D.C. Not surprisingly, a D.C. jury acquitted Craig.
It was failing to aggressively prosecute the radical #resist leftists who sought to disrupt the inauguration, even though James O’Keefe successfully recorded them plotting the violence.
And most notably, it was a 9-year sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone by four “career lawyers” in Liu’s office.
All of it, all of the biased justice, led to Trump yanking her nomination.
These pages have been covering the ideological biases of DOJ lawyers for nearly a decade.
Trump has now learned the details of what is going on inside one Justice Department office, the D.C. United States Attorney’s office. He also learned details about people who accepted appointments in his administration and took their jobs while holding their noses.
This was the week that Trump got his sea-legs. He campaigned on draining the swamp, and he has learned how subtle and how sophisticated the swamp is.
Meanwhile, institutionalists, including some Republicans too cowardly to be quoted by name, have gone on record as clutching their pearls at Trump’s actions. They want the bureaucrats to be unmoored from the executive branch.“
https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/president-trump-starts-to-drain-the-swamp-yanks-liu/
harkin (b64479) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:10 am_
It was someone attacking Donald Trump as not a Christian because he doesn’t bear any positive fruits. I therefore pointed out a very big one (I could have picked others, but chose just one for simplicity) and challenged the argument raised.
As I said.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:13 amExactly.
Even if McCabe’s prosecution was presented to a grand jury, did they want to get the indictment?
Obviously.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:14 amAlrighty. You were pointing out I’d raised a counterargument, not the original argument. Fair enough. You get my point in the counterargument that, whatever Trump’s motives may be, the obvious and visible fruit in that case is his pro-life presidiency, and I take umbrage to the suggestion that that is a “very small positive” or an “incidental good.” I consider it major.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:16 amAfter all, did any of the “career lawyers” bring the Holder criminal contempt findings to a grand jury? Did former U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu agree or disagree with their inactivity?
Did the head duck…where the buck stops…do any more?
Haven’t seen it. You? I mean, besides bit@hing and playing victim…?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:19 amMost Trump defenders don’t admit that he might have impure motives (which make him unreliable as a champion of any particular policies). On the contrary, they have tended to argue that his motives are purer than the average politician’s, and that he has made a great patriotic sacrifice for love of America, or for love of Christians. And many of them get angry and indignant when he is criticized for anything.
Here are some fruits of the Spirit of Trump. I remember when Republicans were all aghast at what children were learning from Bill Clinton’s example. Now a lot of them take the view that only a loser or a traitor would apply the same standard of judgment to Trump.
Radegunda (24de45) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:23 amI had a good laugh at Mr. Adams’ headline.
He’s all about ‘draining dat swamp’ in the third year of his regime, and doing it, by jingo, by axing his own very recent nomination to a high cabinet post who was hours away from a Congressional hearing.
Impressive…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:25 amAfter all, did any of the “career lawyers” bring the Holder criminal contempt findings to a grand jury?
Curious about statutes of limitation. I dunno, misef. Could that be any tolling provisions?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:30 am… as though he had any sincere objection to corruption. Trump has always acted in his own interest, for his own ego and advantage, regardless of the damage to anyone else. Practically every day he signals his deeply self-serving ethic, because that’s who he is.
All the people who say he’s draining the swamp don’t care about the way he steers public money into his own business, or otherwise uses presidential power for selfish purposes. They don’t care about the way he and his zealous promoters have turned personal loyalty to Donald Trump into the highest public virtue.
Whatever problems there may be the DOJ, it’s absurd to suggest that Donald Trump has any commitment to impartial justice, or even understands the concept.
Radegunda (24de45) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:42 amI have a choice between one pagan Roman and another pagan Roman. One hates my faith, throws my fellow Christians to the lions in the Colosseum and tanks the economy. The other one leaves me alone, shows my faith some respect and makes the economy hum.
Jeeebus! No wonder the country is so screwed! How many false statements/assumptions are there in that brief screed?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:42 am165. b.s.
mg (3f839a) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:53 amSo long as Wuhan and other places in China is quarantined, the whole of Mainland China itself will be quarantined. If the quarantine on Wuhan is lifted, but some cases of the Wuhan corona virus are detected outside of China, China will be quarantined and maybe for longer than it otherwise would be.
This will not be over soon.
It doesn’t matter that this season that this season an estimated 19 million Americans (out of 325 million = approx 6%) have come down with flu (not confirmed by testing but someone made an estimate) of which 310,000 (=1.63% or approximately 1 out 60 cases) have hospitalized, and more than 10,000 (approximately 3% of hospitalized cases) have died and that sometimes new strains of flu originate in China. They have fixated on this, partly because originally the deadliness was unknown. It still is because nobody can trust statistics coming out of China, or much of anything else censored or approved by the government,.
The World Health Organization does not recommend long term quarantines, probably for economic and libertarians reasons and also because they are considered impossible to totally enforce, and not worth enforcing unless they are near total, and maybe also we could say because this would create a disincentive for people to report new diseases.
They might justify it if in the interim you could develop and produce a vaccine but that would take about a year and they never will recommend a disruption of more than a few months.
It is supporting quarantines within China but not of China as a whole but this will not work. Nobody outside f China really has any way of telling for most people where in China somebody has been or can rely on the idea that nobody from an affected area traveled to where they live.
In the meantime, China is probably 50% or more shut down since the start of the lunar New Year holiday about January 25.
People have no idea how long this will last, but it’s either quarantine China indefinitely for a year or two, or let this virus out, and stop worrying about it.
The apparent death rate in China, it seems to me, can only be explained by there being another (perhaps well known, perhaps the flu) infection circulating with it and killing people, somewhat slowly, any place people are quarantined. They are not testing for anything besides this corona virus. So there could easily be another pathogen. If there’s anything new or rare about it, the government of China will want to keep that under wraps.
While you have some people talking about that they should be killing people, this seems not to be government policy except maybe to scare people into staying isolated at home.
People need fresh air, and space, and good nutrition too recover. What also would help is antivirals developed for AIDS and ebola, even something developed for ebola that didn’t work with ebola. (but you don’t need something that good for this)
The reason these medications aren’t used is probably only because the price is so high. It would be a good idea to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies for mass production (of ones that don’t have much of a side effect) in return for a low price, and use it, along with antibiotics, for any infection. If side effects take time to develop, they’re probably not serious.
+
The thermometers they are using in China are either not good or not used properly, and held too far from a person’s face, sometimes reporting hypothermia (body temperature below 35 degrees Celsius = 95 degrees Fahrenheit.)
Even the corona virus test in China is not so good because the samples aren’t taken from deep in the lungs. Again, if someone looks sick (has a fever, maybe high white blood cell count) and tests negative (as been anecdotally reported) that means there’s another pathogen here. I think they are rounding up and confining people (in heavily affected areas) without confirmation it is corona. They’re actually causing more people to get sick.
China is apparently not using any of their “ghost cities” for quarantines.
Their measures get in the way of each other. They want to create safe routes for medical supplies and food – and keep production up for certain necessities, bit it;s not quite working..
If you want to buy anything made in Chins, you probably should buy it now, before all the goods in the pipelines get used up. Manufacturers don’t know if this is going to last a few weeks or at least a few months so they are not making plans to shift production. Everyone is in denial.
If this is going to end soon, we’ll know by March, although institutions will be much slower to admit it, but so far this has not affected stock prices, or caused the federal Reserve Reserve Board to reduce interest rates.
I can see this lasting at least one year, (longer if Trump is re-elected) and ending only because they have decided to let the virus loose. (maybe giving people the option of getting vaccinated if they like) They may also declare it contained when it is merely reduced in scale, with few cases getting out of China.
In China they first denied there was human to human transmission.
Xi appeared briefly in public when it was noted that he hadn’t. He is now taking some credit for early measures, but that also means he’s taking blame for letting this get out of hand.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/16/2020 @ 11:59 amHow surprise medical billing got started, and that’s its not ending because somebody’s ox would eb gored if it was.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/opinion/sunday/surprise-medical-billing.html
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:02 pm… as though he had any sincere objection to corruption.
Trump has succeeded (or at least failed to fail) in a system (New York City) that is as rotten as rotten can be. He has had to swim in very polluted waters indeed. That does not mean he LIKES polluted waters. It may mean “cleaning them up” leaves them dirtier than others would like.
I do know that he IS attacking the existing system in DC, rattling cages and otherwise making a nuisances of himself. He’s ineffectual, often mistaken, blind to his own faults and thoroughly incomplete in his attempt to shake things up, but that does not mean he is not sincere about his objection to the way things are.
There IS a “deep state” and it has responded to Trump as antibodies attack an infection. That doessn’t make the “deep state” evil, necessarily, but it is hard to say it isn’t there.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:05 pmWhat an assortment of conservative Christian scholars professed to believe in 1998:
There’s more. But it’s all out the window now, because Trump.
Radegunda (24de45) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:10 pm…but that does not mean he is not sincere about his objection to the way things are.
Well, one problem people have with Duh Donald is that he sincerely lies about the way things are. It’s one of the things he does to bait boobs, and how he got elected in part.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:13 pmNeither Republicans or Democrats, in general, care about deficits, but they use arguments that X will increase or not increase the deficit to support their position.
Republicans favor lower taxes and Democrats higher spending (and sometimes special tax breaks).
Democrats favor static analysis because that underestimates spending on entitlements (spending for projects is also always underestimated) while Republicans favor dynamic analysis because static analysis always overestimates the loss to the government from tax cuts.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:17 pmNo, because the corrupt Democrats necessitated someone like Trump to fix it.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:18 pmAnd should I add weak corporate GOP.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:23 pmour president mr donald trump doesn’t lie he shares with us his vision of a better world where he and he alone lives and it has unicorns too
Dave (1bb933) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:23 pmNeither Republicans or Democrats, in general, care about deficits…
They don’t VOTE like they care about deficits.
It USED to be a clear value of conservatives that deficits (generally) were dangerous and evil. Lately, a lot of erstwhile “conservatives” are Keynesians and seem happy with the idea of MMT (modern monetary theory), and Duh Donald is one of the worst.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:25 pmNo, because the corrupt Democrats necessitated someone like Trump to fix it.
Boy, was THAT the wrong tool…!!!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:28 pm190. Donald Trump made a career out of hosing his creditors. That’s exactly what he means when he brags about how he’s used bankruptcy over the years to his advantage.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:31 pmWhat some comrades don’t understand is that the Presidency has been strong since Reagan, but it has not been the President who was the only strong man. There were also his henchmen ahem I mean department heads who exercised the executive power. Trump has largely squandered that inheritance because he is personally a petulant fruitcake incapable of managing it himself and because he can’t hire decent people and trust them to do their jobs.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:31 pmTrump also favors this because it allows him to hide the true costs with inflated long-term growth rates of 4, 5 or even 6% that make his clueless dupes swoon but never actually materialize.
Dave (1bb933) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:39 pm@135 I assume you believe that Mitch McConnell should have recused himself from the impeachment process, then, right? Since his wife works directly for the President?
@154 Amazing how many excuses you make for your belief in the people telling you who is breaking the law and the findings that there should be no prosecution. The entire world isn’t protecting the people you dislike, your sources are lying to you.
@168 This is exactly why Comey should never had commented on the HRC investigation. The FBI and DOJ aren’t supposed to comment to the public but because Comey did, now everyone expects a detailed explanation for why this person or that person isn’t taken to trial, regardless of the privacy rights of anyone involved.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:45 pmThat “Trump and Anybody Not Trump” that I enunciated on the Bernie thread? That’s not just #Nevertrump. It’s also every Trumpkin.
nk (9651fb) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:53 pmNic (896fdf) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:45 pm
I was wondering what the moderate take on all this was. Thanks, Nic.
Munroe (aee7fc) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:56 pm@197 You are welcome. Any day I can point out how a fact pattern does not match a media narrative, even if it’s a conservative media narrative, is a good one.
Nic (896fdf) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:08 pmOK. It’s clearly not, but you can “find it” anything you like.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:13 pmI gotta be honest, though: anyone who can look at that set of facts and not see some pretty decent circumstantial evidence is someone I’m not really interested in speaking with.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:14 pmPerhaps some common ground amongst us?
mg (8cbc69) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:28 pm40 years ago
USA -4
Russia -3
What a great day in USA sports history.
But his widespread and evident corruption does mean he likes polluted waters.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:36 pmOh, for sure. To the extent that the way things are make it difficult for him to engage in corruption, or snap his fingers and immediately make some dopey decision without any process, he totally objects to that state of affairs. Sincerely!
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:39 pmI really find it boring talking to people whose partisanship makes it difficult for them to acknowledge 2+2=4.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:40 pmMany things Donald Trump says about his religious beliefs rattle me because they are so different than what I was taught. I was raised Episcopalian but I lived in several small towns, some of which did not have Episcopalian churches when I was young, so we attended Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian and other Christian churches. (It is interesting how, on the surface, the denominations seem interchangeable when they aren’t.) I may be wrong but IMO Trump’s religious views are consistent with other Presbyterians. For instance, I believe they see themselves as accepting forgiveness from Christ rather than seeking it.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/16/2020 @ 1:51 pmBut his widespread and evident corruption does mean he likes polluted waters.
I would have found another place to swim, but that’s just me I suppose…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:07 pmAbsent from the president’s many public comments about the Russia investigation, however, was a warning to Russia not to interfere in the next election, or even an acknowledgment that U.S. intelligence agencies believe Russian President Vladimir Putin is seeking to do so.
–WaPo
Strange innit…?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:17 pmFrom the Lawfare article Mr. P references:
The Bureau of Justice Statistics indicates that between October 2013 and September 2014—the last year these data were publicly available—the department investigated almost 200,000 cases and declined to prosecute roughly 31,500. Of the latter category, just five of those cases were declined because a grand jury returned no true bill—a percentage so small that the Bureau of Justice Statistics declines to actually write it out.
So, it must’ve been because the McCabe case was among the 0.02% weakest of the weak. Well, no… from the same article:
As one of us has spelled out in detail, this is not the kind of case that normally ends up as a criminal matter. While the Justice Department inspector general report that led to McCabe’s dismissal from the bureau is sharply critical of his conduct, indictments for false statements in internal Justice Department investigations, without some exacerbating factor, are exceedingly rare.
You don’t say — i.e., bingo.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:33 pm“Strange innit…?”
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:17 pm
Absent from WaPo’s many public opinion pieces and fake news articles is an acknowledgement that they spread a false Trump Russia collusion narrative.
Strange innit…?
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:38 pmThis ^^^ is a great example of the ad hominem fallacy.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:41 pmIt’s more than incidental. You’re special pleading when you credit a list of his faults, some of which are pretty minor (demeanor, for example) and downgrade his pro-life presidency to “incidental” or “very small.”
I posted, as a response to someone else’s comment, a regetence to a New Testament that described what a Christian believer should be like (fruits of the spirit) and not be like (works of the flesh), and invited everyone else to decide how those descriptions matched Trump. What you call demeanor is actually a group of character traits that the author of Galatians points to as fundamental. If you thik they are minor things, argue with the person who wrote Galatians, not me.
Trump has taken actions that are anti-abortion, most of them indirect (most importantly, judgeships) or symbolic, with effects that can’t be quantified for at least a few more years), but they are not evidence that he is a Christian, especially since they benefit him politically.
Has he done anything motivated by religious belief that was not politically beneficial to him?
Kishnevi (43b9bd) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:43 pmTo: Donald J. Trump, Jr.
From: Donald J. Trump, Jr
Dave (1bb933) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:47 pmThe Obama administration’s Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing (AFFH) rule was arguably its most radical attempt to “fundamentally transform” the United States. As I wrote at the time, Obama’s AFFH gives the federal government “a lever to re-engineer nearly every American neighborhood — imposing a preferred racial and ethnic composition, densifying housing, transportation, and business development in suburb and city alike, and weakening or casting aside the authority of local governments over core responsibilities, from zoning to transportation to education.” Another way of looking at Obama’s AFFH is to see it as a way of allowing big cities to effectively annex their surrounding suburbs — siphoning off suburban tax revenue and controlling suburban planning as well.
While Ben Carson’s HUD is now proposing a revision of Obama’s AFFH that peels back some of the rule’s most egregious overreach, the core of Obama’s AFFH remains intact. Although it is disguised by vague bureaucratic language, Carson’s version of AFFH still gives the feds the power to control local zoning decisions.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/no-trump-has-not-ended-obamas-war-on-the-suburbs/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=right-rail&utm_content=corner&utm_term=second
Now THAR is some swamp draining that we could stand to see!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:51 pmRagspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:51 pm
Just a reminder.
Kishnevi (43b9bd) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:54 pmBernie wants to give us a bigger, even more intrusive version of AFFH.
214
I say we kill it dead. Right now would be good.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 2:55 pmSo weird that Munroe would ignore the clear circumstantial evidence and cherry-pick stuff that supports his position.
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 3:40 pm217. So weird…
Speak for yourself. I’ve come to expect it from him.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/16/2020 @ 3:59 pm@192. Donald Trump made a career out of hosing his creditors. That’s exactly what he means when he brags about how he’s used bankruptcy over the years to his advantage.
Capitalist tool uses capitalist tool; film at 11.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/16/2020 @ 4:23 pmWow, people are SO concerned about Trump being a Christian. Even Jews, atheists, Muslims and agnostics. I didn’t realize we were elect a Pope every four years. Oh well, maybe if Trump tries hard enough he’ll be a great Christian like John McCain or Bill Clinton.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/16/2020 @ 4:33 pmBTW, 1001 Ex-DoJ employees have demanded Barr quit as AG. How many are Democrats is unclear, since no one is interested in finding out.
But never forget. 40 million Frenchman can’t be wrong. And they are OK with Barr staying.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/16/2020 @ 4:36 pmI went to a Presbyterian church growing up. The first decade of my adult church life with Mrs. Montagu was in a Presbyterian church, and we were active: She was a deacon and I was in the choir. We were baptized in that church.
Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/16/2020 @ 4:38 pmThere’s nothing Presbyterian in Trump’s words and acts that tells me he’s a Christian, nothing that I’ve seen that resembles how my Presbyterian friends spoke or believed about our Savior.
“So weird that Munroe would ignore the clear circumstantial evidence and cherry-pick stuff that supports his position.”
Patterico (115b1f) — 2/16/2020 @ 3:40 pm
Yeah, I don’t discount other sources of information, or cherry-pick anti-Trump takes from the many out there. Not saying you are…. it’s just that one source appears to be held up as the gold standard.
Finally, we must note that when the District of Columbia is the venue for any prosecution with political overtones, Justice Department charging decisions must factor in the jury pool, which is solidly anti-Trump.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/02/why-wasnt-andrew-mccabe-charged/
The IG, who if he had a bias it was in favor of casting the best light on the FBI, singled out McCabe. Weird that his case would be among the 0.02% rejected by a GJ. That circumstantial evidence, you mean? How many cases have the provenance of a thorough IG report laid out for all to see. Did you take issue with it?
I could paste a wall of text from McCarthy’s scathing piece. Why not give it a read? He takes Trump to task as well, so it’s at least got that to entice.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/16/2020 @ 4:44 pm220. I couldn’t care less. But his Christianity was something HE ran on. So there is that.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/16/2020 @ 4:49 pmHe ran on it, just as much as McCain, Obama, and Clinton Did.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/16/2020 @ 5:11 pmPro-Trump hyperpartisans like McCarthy and others keeping wanting to conflate “lack of candor” and perjury. Sad.
Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/16/2020 @ 5:18 pmDraining the swamp, Trump-style.
Ditto.
Radegunda (24de45) — 2/16/2020 @ 5:34 pmPaul,
I don’t think Trump is a typical Presbyterian. My comment was more about his approach to forgiveness, which is very strange to me.
Most Christian denominations focus on man’s sinful nature and how we need to ask for forgiveness, but my recollection of Presbyterians is they believe that a sinful man accepts God’s forgiveness given because of Christ’s death. It is an unearned act of grace, a gift. If so, that is a subtle difference and it may not be meaningful, but if he attended a church like that it might explain how he talks about forgiveness. In addition, Presbyterian is a mainline denomination where its followers are sometimes more restrained in publicly talking about their faith.
Trump doesn’t act like a Christian and most Christian faiths require people to try to live their faith. I don’t see that much in Trump, although there are stories of his generosity. It is also very good he is pro-life but that is Trump the President, not Trump the man. But I hate to judge someone else’s faith. That is God’s job.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/16/2020 @ 6:07 pmhttps://www.gettrumpybear.com/
Kishnevi (e81fd7) — 2/16/2020 @ 6:44 pmGood comment, DRJ.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:16 pm225. Right. But conservatives didn’t eat up McCain’s, Obama’s, or Clinton’s schtick, and in-turn make excuses for them. Conservatives rightly called them out as the wishy-washy libwits they were.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:21 pmI don’t judge others’ spiritual walks either, DRJ, which is why I said that I’ve never seen Trump pray or say that Christ is his personal Lord and Savior. The Presbyterians I know regularly make that profession.
Paul Montagu (ae8832) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:28 pmAlso, I won’t speak for the whole denomination, but I can tell you there was little theological daylight between my Presbyterian pastor and the Foursquare and Baptist congregations we joined after that, including all being pro-life.
Well, historically the divides between Baptist and Presbyterian have more to do with church organization and English history than doctrine per se. The biggest doctrinal point being adult vs child baptism. Obviously the former presumes a person looking for grace as a baptismal candidate, the latter doesn’t. Both are the institutional descendants of Calvin, the Reformed churches of Europe, and the Puritans of England. There’s probably bigger differences with Lutherans and Episcopalians/Methodists.
Kishnevi (ebf823) — 2/16/2020 @ 7:53 pmI am certain you know more about Presbyterians than I do, Paul.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:03 pm
Angelo (84d95a) — 2/16/2020 @ 8:51 pmThe corona virus quarantees from the cruise ship evacuated from China are going to be transferred from Travis AFB to Camp Roberts (SLO county)
233. It’s always been my understanding that not all anabaptists call themselves “Baptist,” but all self-proclaimed Baptist churches are anabaptist.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/16/2020 @ 9:00 pmRich rulers can be Christians. It’s only more difficult than passing a camel-hair mooring hawser through a hole made by a needle.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 1:05 amYears after getting the ruby ridge shooter off the hook –
mg (8cbc69) — 2/17/2020 @ 3:31 amBarr shouting “don’t tweet” into the microphone like the wizard from oz doesn’t change the fact the curtain is gone.
We all know Bill, time to come clean.
Robert Johnson AKA William Barr involvement in Iran-Contra\Mena Arkansas affair. This clown is driving the bus. What a corrupt judicial system some of us are forced to live under.
mg (8cbc69) — 2/17/2020 @ 3:39 amThe legal profession is a disgrace to American tax payers.
237. Jesus didn’t say “Blessed are the poor,” he said “Blessed are the poor in spirit.” That’s an important distinction.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 6:06 amMAOA,
I agree with your suggestion that the DOJ release a memo clearly explaining their decision not to charge McCabe. I don’t think it will ever happen. There are 3 ways that memo can go.
1. The decision not to charge was wrong and we should have charged him but we didn’t for bad reasons. Barr wont’ release a memo that says that. It would make him look like an idiot. Also I think that it wouldn’t be correct. I think that the evidence against McCabe wasn’t strong enough to make a conviction a likely outcome. It further seems likely to me that Barr knows the rationale behind this and doesn’t disagree.
2. The decision not to charge was correct because of reasons having to do with law, evidence and precedent. Barr won’t release this memo because it will make his boss look like an idiot. Trump and his supporters in the media have been making all sorts of claims about McCabe and the deep state that have yet to be born out by the evidence. A memo saying that the rage and conspiracy theories directed at McCabe are unfounded will just make his boss mad at him. So he’s not going to do that.
3. A memo that technically says the items in number 2 but is written to sound like number 1. This is what Comey did with Hillary and everyone hated that. It would also change nothing since the people that believe the conspiracy theories don’t need more fuel and the people that don’t would just parse out the details and come away with the conclusion they already have.
Time123 (b87ded) — 2/17/2020 @ 6:14 amMunroe,
Time123 (b87ded) — 2/17/2020 @ 6:28 amI read the piece you linked. I found it interesting but flawed in that it ignored any argument in favor of not indicting. It also made no analysis explaining why Barr and his appointees didn’t pursue what they presented as such a slam dunk case give how important it was to his boss. The persecutor that oversaw the case is a republican and until last week a rising star in the GOP. Failure to get an indictment here seems to have ended that.
What you attribute to some conspiracy I attribute to a system that has been built in large part to benefit the people within it. This is why so many white color crimes (the kind that are committed by people that congressmen know) require you actually know you’re breaking the law. This is why it’s so easy for a beat cop to not be charged when they accidentally shoot someone. This is why when the police forget about a person locked up for 3 days it’s not a crime. It’s just a procedural error. This isn’t bad people subverting the system. This is well within the operating parameters of the system and I see no evidence that Trump or Barr have any interest in fixing the system. It looks to me like Barr wants to maintain it as best he can, and that Trump wants to subvert it to his personal benefit.
The persecutor that oversaw the case
Kishnevi (126082) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:06 amThat was a typo, I assume….
I can’t say you are wrong, Time123 #242. There are times when the system does seem to work better for some than others but, if that is universally true, then I think we have to reconsider White Privilege, Black Lives Matter, and reparations.
I wonder if McCabe could face charges as a result of the Durham investigation, so Barr decided it would be better to avoid the political fallout from pursuing a DOJ indictment?
DRJ (15874d) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:10 am@240. Luke has it “Blessed are the poor.” Matthew has “poor in Spirit.”
So, both/and.
JRH (52aed3) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:18 amIf you remove the specifics about who is complaining MAGA and BLM sounds a lot alike. I think they’d be easy allies if dislike of black people wasn’t so central to some of the MAGA movement. Trying hard not to paint with too broad a brush.
As evidence, have you seen the ‘black jeopardy’ skit on SNL with Tom Hanks?
Time123 (b87ded) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:32 amActually Jesus was merely quoting Psalm 37:11 at that point. The Hebrew word used in the psalm can be translated as either “humble” or “[financially] poor”.
Kishnevi (126082) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:34 am247. Well if Donald J. Trump is rich or not, one thing he definitely isn’t, is humble.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:51 am190. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/16/2020 @ 12:25 pm
Yes, but they were wrong. It was used as reason to oppose legislation that they opposed anyway. There was a consistency about opposing deficits, but, from time to time, the reason they opposed deficits changed from time to time. They used to oppose them on the grounds they caused inflation. That became increasingly implausible, and so later deficits caused recessions.
Some thinkers, like Paul Ryan, and actually Ronald Reagan 30 years before him, took the position that deficits were not the problem, but the accumulated deficits were the problem – the total amount of the federal debt, or the ratio of the federal debt to GDP. It stood to reason that this could get too high, but nobody knew what the limit was, if a specific level existed. And you didn’t want to get too close to your “credit limit.” This is the way it works with states and localities. They go broke gradually and then suddenly. But the federal government of the United states is a special case – money can grow on trees.
I’m not sure what they are, but they might agree with some of its propositions.
Donald Trump at first was for what conservatives wanted and he made some kind of a hero out of Andrew Jackson (whose hard money policy broufht on the “Panic of 1837” – a depression that began just about when he left office) although he never got fully behind the monetary policy of Andrew Jackson.
Donald Trump did not re-appoint Janet Yellen and he appointed Jerome Powell who was a little bit more of a higher interest rate guy. Then later he didn’t like what he did, and he would have fired him if he legally could.
Now he’s nominated Judy Shelton to the Fed who has perhaps been all over the place. She’s for a gold standard (which can’t possibly work) but also for keeping interest rates low for now, (although not for going into negative territory, something that European experience has shown is possible and which Donald Trump endorses as something that should not be off the table.)
She’s for keeping rates low especially for the purpose of preventing foreign currency exchange rates from making the dollar too expensive and in general the Fed should prevent exchange rates varying too much.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/business/economy/judy-shelton-fed.html
There’s more support for making her a member of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Board than for making her Chairman.
And they better stay low because of the total size of the federal debt and because raising them only inflicts economic harm and Donald Trump knows that. And it’s a crude and overly strong tool to stop speculation – and it doesn’t stop it, it causes crashes, like after 2004.
As for Keynesians, New York Times columnist Paul Krugman and now his position is that, back around 2009 he said the stimulus was too small, but Democrats were all too afraid of making it too big because they’d be criticized fo too large deficits, and so recovery from the Great Recession was slow, and the 2017 tax bill created a fiscal stimulus, although not as efficiently in terms of the increased deficit as giving more of a tax break to less wealthy people, and less to corporations would have been.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:53 amSometimes, Sammy, information illuminates.
Sometimes it obfuscates.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:02 amBut the federal government of the United states is a special case – money can grow on trees.
Money can, but wealth cannot. Well, excepting lumber. There is no special case.
PTw (894877) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:10 am251. Wealth can to a limited degree, be created by fiat, because with extra money there is more production, but at least the consequences of default are avoided. Even if it causes inflation that may be better than the alternatives, by and large.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:15 amButtigieg/McRaven will be a tough ticket.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:20 amChina is burning money (that get into banks) in an attempt to stop the spread of the corona virus.- All money in Wuhan and in other places with high rates of infection is being burnt. In other places, the money is being disinfected and put into a 14-day quarantine.
The virus has been found to live for up to 9-days on some surfaces. Not so sure currency.
Meanwhile the husband of the wife (both on their 80s) who was put into a hospital in Cambodia after a high temperature was detected in Kuala Lumpur airport – he wife has corona the husband is hospitalized with pneumonia but twice was not tested and not found positive for corona.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:21 amBenjamin Franklin knew in 1729 that printing money (in that pre-electronic era) causes prosperity.
But there is the problem of confidence in the currency. Not a problem now for the USA because the Dollar is the world’s reserve currency and there is no other.
I think hat in 1729 Benjamin Franklin proposed backing it with land. Not sure.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-01-02-0041
Benjamin Franklin operated on the idea that there was a correct supply of money.
And maybe this has to be moderate.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:33 am252. Real wealth is never created by fiat because money and wealth are two different concepts. The things you possess that you value over other things constitute wealth. Money is just how you exchange different forms of wealth with other people.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:36 am255. It will be a problem, Finkelman. The world’s confidence in the USD is predicated on the confidence of others.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:37 amYes, but they were wrong. It was used as reason to oppose legislation that they opposed anyway.
Nonsense.
Deficits have been opposed because they are exercises in national profligacy, and for adding to the national debt (with which we encumber our children).
We know that Keynesian stimulus just doesn’t work as promised. Never has, never will. But it IS a wonderful excuse for MORE spending. Actual conservatives have pretty uniformly opposed this kind of dangerous big government tinkering. We still do, though the cult of T-rump has crisply turned their backs on all that.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:39 am258. That’s all assuming that Republicans did the right thing for the right reasons all those years, and not so they could campaign on “We’re not Democrats.” I used to think that too, but my faith in humanity is rather waning as of late.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:43 amBenjamin Franklin knew in 1729 that printing money (in that pre-electronic era) causes prosperity.
Again, that’s nonsense. What Franklin and others of the time recognized is that we need a universally recognized and convenient medium of exchange. That would facilitate commerce and, hence, prosperity. It would by no means cause it.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:47 am260. Franklin also realized that if exchange was predicated on precious (read: scarce) metals, there would be problems with getting everyone to agree on exactly what metals/media to use. Remember, the Junto club of Philadelphia predated the American Revolution by decades.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:49 am259 I’m confining my observations to real conservatives, quite distinct from Republicans. Nixon, for instance, was a right-Progressive, never a conservative. Like Duh Donald.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:53 am262. If it weren’t for that pesky little Alger Hiss affair, Nixon could have been the Democrats’ wet dream. OSHA and EPA among many other alphabet agencies were signed into existence under his tenure.
Gryph (08c844) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:54 am“As evidence, have you seen the ‘black jeopardy’ skit on SNL with Tom Hanks?”
Time123 (b87ded) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:32 am
Time123, you remind me of the Democrat friend I had many years ago who “as evidence” a conservative position was wrong would regularly bring up Will Ferrell or Jon Stewart skits.
Cops are given a margin of error because quite literally their lives are on the line and nobody would take the job without that margin. Not so with a McCabe. This is why BLM is exactly not like MAGA.
And, I noticed your need to frame my position as a “conspiracy” straw man. Do you think McCarthy believes it’s a conspiracy? I don’t. Regardless, thanks for reading the article.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:59 amIIRC, Nixon was also the author of wage and price controls, some of which led to the gas “shortages” of the time.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:59 am260. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:47 am
That’s true enough, but that wasn’t the main effect of this. It wasn’t jst liquidity. t was the fact there just was more money.
“Facilitate,” or “cause,” what’s the difference?
Of course something else was needed besides money. Actual goods or services for sale. But without money, or something accepted as such, people can’t buy and people can’t sell.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:06 amBTW, “Ace of Spades HQ” has a hilarious bit on Fat Boy Erick Erickson and Erickson’s never-ending quest to be hired back by CNN as the “reasonable conservative”.
Whether its hand-waving at Google de-platforming conservatives or pooh-poohing McCabe getting away with lying and leaking, you can always trust Erickson to be “reasonable”. Just the perfect attitude for a CNN panel show!
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:08 amagspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:39 am
That’s a value judgment.
But they’ll never have to pay it back. The problem is it could limit their freedom of action.
True, bit fiscal policy is something politicians control.
The only thing that matters is monetary policy.
Tinkering is something different from mere spending.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:12 amI’m shocked that Erickson has never appeared on Meet the Press. He’d fit right in. the usual news panel has 1 extreme leftists, Three liberals (including Todd), and then 1 “reasonable” conservative. Usually someone like Rich Lowrey or Peggy Noonan. The token conservative is expected to stay silent, except to join in the Trump bashing, or say a few quiet words about how “Maybe, Just maybe, the Democrats are being a little too extreme here”. Lowrey probably does the best job, because you barely know he’s there.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:13 amSammy:
Franklin’s pamphlet is here:
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/a-modest-enquiry-into-the-nature-and-necessity-of-paper-currency/
It does not get into the backing of the currency.
Appalled (1a17de) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:14 amTrue Cons are against Abortion and the growth of BIG Government. And do absolutely nothing to stop either. True Cons supported McCain – who didn’t give a damn about either issue, but opposed Trump because of it.
I’m beginning to think True Cons don’t really care about what they say do. Sorta like Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin and Bill Kristol.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:16 amRagspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:59 am
Congress paased authorization for it over his veto in March, 1971, then in Augst Nixon implemented it, adopting it as his policy.
On July 15 he announced his visit to Red China and on August 15 he got off the international gold standard and imposed wage and price controls.
But there was a desire to avoid this so they were mostly gone by 1974, except for oil and gas where you had this whole distinction between old oil and new oil and intrastate (mostly Texas) oil and interstate oil and gas.
The gas shortage was caused by the Arab Oil Embargo of October 1973, which also became an opportunity to raise prices.
The totally unnecessary shortage was cased by President Jimmy Carter in 1979. Fearing a shortage was coming he followed the advice of James Schlesinger and bat it to the punch.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:19 amThey should sell all their property and give the money to Paula White and follow Trump. That way they shall enter into the orange orchard.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:20 am“Facilitate,” or “cause,” what’s the difference?
Geez, Sammy, get a dictionary.
But without money, or something accepted as such, people can’t buy and people can’t sell.
Well they certainly CAN. Ol’ Ben and I know that money (actually one of the greatest inventions in human history) would facilitate exchange, but exchange would happen regardless. And, of course, it was at the time. Ben didn’t get his bun via robbery!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:22 amBo Snerdley
@BoSnerdley
·
Virginia lawmakers reject Northam’s assault-weapons ban, as Dems balk
https://fxn.ws/2SyXiUx #FoxNews
_
They picked a good day for it.
harkin (b64479) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:23 amI think it was in fact backed by land, but this (how it was backed) was maybe not worth noting and it couldn’t become fiat because that wouldn’t work.
https://relicrecord.com/blog/benjamin-franklins-paper-money
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:31 amTo clarify, that was a joke. SNL isn’t evidence of anything.
Time123 (14b920) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:33 amThe gas shortage was caused by the Arab Oil Embargo of October 1973…
Seems that I recall the Japanese…who never produced a thimble of gas of their own…never had a “shortage”.
This Econ 101; shortages of any duration are the result of some idiot screwing with the market. That was not the A-rabs. Oil was available.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:35 amYou seem to believe in a complicated coordination of actions by a group of unknown people that are part of ‘the deep state’. Every time new facts or an investigation fails to provide evidence to support your theory you find a pretext to discount the findings, move the potential evidence to a new location, or create a new reason your original theory is still correct. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you modify your theory of events to fit available data.
I think it’s correct to characterize that as a conspiracy theory.
Time123 (14b920) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:38 am279. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:35 am
The Arab OIl embargo did not apply to Japan.
The A-rabs screwed with the market in 1973-4.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:39 amAre you saying Trump has done something to make government smaller? If so I don’t see any evidence of that, but I may be misreading you.
Time123 (14b920) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:41 amThe Arab OIl embargo did not apply to Japan.
Sure it did. It applied everywhere because it impacted the world oil supply.
We could buy oil at market prices, just like the rest of the world. What caused the “shortage” was that we were not allowed to.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:45 amLet me re-word this more generally.
LEO & Prosecutors are given a margin of error because the stakes are so high and nobody would take the job without that margin.
It’s the same reasoning. Getting new people to follow the same rules will change very little. I don’t believe Trump or his supporters want to fix the system. I think they want to abuse it to their own ends.
Time123 (14b920) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:45 am@274 SF: “Facilitate,” or “cause,” what’s the difference?
The direct object is commerce, with resulting prosperity.
That means here cause…prosperity (by facilitating commerce)
As long as there is some money.
Now what is money? It is what nobody is afraid of getting stuck with. Nowadays gold and silver is not money.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:48 amTrue Cons are against Abortion and the growth of BIG Government. And do absolutely nothing to stop either.
How long have you been blind? You might want to look at what conservatives have done on the STATE level AND the national level. But I perceive you are too filled with hate and rage to see anything but the red mist.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:49 amPart of the FBI’s job is to recognize that the lives of everybody in the world are on the line if an orange Russian agent turns over our nuclear weapons to Putin, and McCabe was a veteran FBI agent.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:49 amTime123 (14b920) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:38 am
I guess you’re forgetting that I predicted McCabe would skate, based on the fact that the Stevens prosecutors skated.
I’ve not had to revise my theory one iota, nor try to make it conform to new facts.
There are those who have, such as those who grudgingly thought McCabe did wrong and thought he should be charged so as to maintain some semblance of intellectual consistency, but now that his case is broomed now parade him around as a conquering hero.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:51 am284. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:45 am
If they produced less.
But you just said they didn’t.
What they did is they raised the price.
Ineed to check this.
Were there any restrictions on imports? Did gasoline in the United states sell for less than elsewhere?
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:52 amAs long as there is some money.
Ever hear of barter, Sammy?
Did you know that people have been involved in exchange economies for centuries, and often without money? Salt was often used as a means of exchange for goods, for instance.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:56 amWell not completely nonsense. In 1729, in colonial America, mediums of exchange in far flung places were more a barter system. Use of currency is more of a city thing. This was partly the cause of the Whiskey Rebellion. Due to a lack of gold and/or currency sufficient to support trade, whiskey was used as a medium of exchange. Which brought with it its own inflationary/deflationary issues. So printing more money, or a gold discovery, or silver if necessary, did to some degree add economic value in itself. Especially as the general economy grew.
PTw (894877) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:57 amVirginia lawmakers reject Northam’s assault-weapons ban, as Dems balk
https://fxn.ws/2SyXiUx #FoxNews
Good news for Virginians, bad news for cellblock bull “Bubba” Trump. Maybe “all those other guys” are not all that scary after all.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:58 amThis seems to indicate that prices did climb in the United States (but says nothing about long gas lines) It also says Japan had stockpiled oil (Why? Price increases earlier in 1973?)
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1969-1976/oil-embargo
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:02 amRagspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:56 am
Eventually, people get unused to it.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:06 amhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/business/china-coronavirus-economy.html
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:09 amBut you just said they didn’t.
Nope. Read, Sammy.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:20 amThere was a mysterious pneumonia i China. On January 9, the cause was identified as a new corona virus.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/mystery-bug-behind-china-s-pneumonia-outbreak-identified-what-know-n1112891
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:21 am@Ragspierre
You did put the word “shortages” in quotes. And said some of the Nixon wage and price controls led to it.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:25 amWar crimes by Putin that nobody is really paying attention to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E2%80%93Syrian_hospital_bombing_campaign
https://www.ft.com/content/67841a5e-4dc6-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:30 amThe Bulwark has another tedious Trump bashing article. Amazing what some Left-wing billionaires will pay for. Also, the Dispatch thinks Barr is wrong, and so are the 1001 Ex-DoJ lawyers who want him to resign. Their new hot take: Both sides are wrong. And Jonah agrees. Surprising.
Meanwhile, Politico is calling Mitt Romney a “Folk Hero” but also someone the D’s shouldn’t take political advice from. Seems Mitt’s 2012 run was an abject lesson in stupidity.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:35 amSammy, concentrate…
What do you think “impacted world supply” means except they were producing less?
You are the hardest-headed son of a…well, bless your heart.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:35 amattacking Barr over Roger Stone is completely crazy or politically motivated.
First of all, objectively the recommended sentence seems to be too high. (maybe Stone did other very bad things but we don’t know that)
Secondly, and partially because of that, there’s no reason to disbelieve Barr that it was already in the process of being reversed when Trump made his tweet.
I also saw a news story that said that Shea was too new and timid to overrule his subordinates when this was coming up.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:46 amPete
@PeterMentes
Bloomberg on why farmers can’t work in information technology
MB: “I can teach anyone how to be a farmer 1 dig a hole 2 put a seed in 3 put dirt on top 4 add water 5 up comes the corn”
The skill 4information technology is completely different you need more grey matter
harkin (b64479) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:49 am_
@Ragspierre. I did read #284 but it made no sense. As they say, it assumes facts not in evidence. You say that the Arab oil embargo impacted world supply. Only a cut in production could do that. But I said that didn’t happen, and you didn’t say that happened.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:49 amThe only fault in the Stone affair is the orange moron’s public tweet, instead of a private text to Barr, and it’s all on his wrinkled old orange ass. Poofters are supposed to be flamboyant, but he’s abusing the privilege.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:50 am@ 304. There’s a video on YouTube on “How To Smoke A Cigarette”. No, I din’t click it, and I ain’t linkin’ it.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:52 amThe New York Post had an editorial yesterday that said Michael Bloomberg made astupid defense of a good policy in 2015:
https://nypost.com/2020/02/15/mike-bloombergs-insulting-idiocy-and-the-real-truth-about-stop-and-frisk
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:53 amRobespierre (you’re more properly fitting name):
PTw (894877) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:57 amYou know, Sammy is one of the most decent people on this site of many otherwise miserable curmudgeons. I don’t always agree with him, and in fact right now am more in agreement with yourself on this issue than with him, but he does a better job than most of the original posters in regard to being balanced and giving thorough, if sometimes tortuously typed, information. Why must you be such an a hole? Can’t you just disagree somewhat politely, at least to start? Every interaction of disagreement with you starts right off the bat with a nasty attitude.
306. nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:50 am
If Donald Trump thought he was abusing power, and that Attorney General Barr would listen to him, he would send him a private text, or better yet, tell it to him over the telephone or in person. (no record is kept of oral communications except with foreign governments)
But neither of these things is true. Trump doesn’t think he would be abusing power in directly telling Barr to cut the sentence, and Barr wouldn’t listen to him.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 10:59 amBarr is in a tough spot, because now it looks like he listened to Trump.
But he decided it was better to do the right thing, and look like Trump could order him around, than not to do the right thing and look independent.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:01 am309 You are a master projectionist.
How you got to what you posted is just amazing.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:03 amBut he decided it was better to do the right thing, and look like Trump could order him around, than not to do the right thing and look independent.
I agree completely, Sammy.
I’ll add, if it had been a state case, where the Supreme Court had not held that the federal sentencing guidelines were merely advisory, the first sentencing recommendation would have been unconstitutional under Supreme Court precedents. As such, it was an abuse of discretion by the prosecutors in Stone’s case and a request to the court to abuse its sentencing discretion.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:17 amI know this is off topic to the Barr stuff but there’s a photo of Bloomberg and Trump golfing and Trump dwarfs him. That shouldn’t matter but there’s no way this guy can beat Trump, if you add in his supposed lack of charisma. Trump’s already hammering him on his height. IMO That leaves Amy Klobuchar and Bernie. Maybe Pete but I don’t see Pete winning the primary. Bernie is putting Dems in a tough spot, but If they’re smart they’ll nominate Amy. She’s still a longshot, but she’s more likeable than Hillary, and not crazy red-diaper grandpa.
JRH (52aed3) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:32 amNot even that, because the word Theory has a definition…
Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena that can be tested with facts and data.
A conspiracy theory is, in fact, the exact opposite. It doesn’t even rise to the level of hypothesis.
It is a delusion, a sign of mental illness or mental defect.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (5cde89) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:41 am“She’s still a longshot, but she’s more likeable than Hillary”
JRH (52aed3) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:32 am
Just ask her staff.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:58 amCongratulations to the Syrian Army for liberating West Aleppo!
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/17/2020 @ 6:37 pmIF the McCabe case was presented to a Grand Jury and it refused to indict, then the question is why. Because we know McCabe lied under oath. so that means either an incompetent prosecution or a biased grand Jury. We know now, that the Forewomen on the Stone case was a bitter partisan Democrat who didn’t like Stone or Trump, and was a lawyer to boot.
Could it be that a DC grand jury just refused to indict because they felt McCabe was anti-Trump and a member of the #resistance? I’m hoping not every FBI/Federal Government case gets decided in DC.
rcocean (1a839e) — 2/17/2020 @ 6:44 pmJRH (52aed3) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:32 am
But Trump’s still lying. Michael Bloomberg is not 5 foot 4 – he’s been reported to be 5 foot 7 and some – maybe less now due to age, maybe 5 foot 6. Amy Klobuchar says she’s the only candidate who is 5 foot 4.
5 foot 4 Amy Klobuchar?
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 6:57 pmThe sun can’t shine on the same dog’s orange ass every day. Trump gave the Kurds to Erdogan and now the Syrian resistance to Putin, and that’s a lot. He can forego McCabe.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:35 pmAnd you know what else? If anybody is not entitled to b!tch and moan and moan and b!tch about McCabe lying it’s the orange liar-in-chief and his supporters. For every lie that McCabe told, the orange has told hundreds. And that’s in a good month.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:43 pmFurthermore, you don’t need to be a DC juror to know that a prosecution of McCabe by the Trump DOJ would be a malicious prosecution, motivated by malice. I know, and the closest I’ve been to DC is JFK airport.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 7:59 pm305. I said:
You say that the Arab oil embargo impacted world supply. Only a cut in production could do that. But I said that didn’t happen, and you didn’t say that happened.
Actually I was wrong. There was a cut in production.
I found this in a book. (and there are other ways check):
The Yom Kippur War; The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East
by Abraham Rabinovich (Shocken Books, 2004) page 435:
The next thing it mentions is Saudi Arabia declaring a total embargo on sales of oil to the United States.
Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:27 pmI remember the OPEC oil embargo very well, Sammy. You are right and Ragspierre is revising history.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:31 pmI remember the OPEC oil embargo very well, Sammy. You are right and Ragspierre is revising history.
Which Sammy? The one who said they did NOT cut production, or the one who just admitted they DID.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:36 pmNo we don’t. He wasn’t under oath.
Dave (1bb933) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:38 pmAndrew McCarthy (not to be confused with Andrew McCabe) says he did, and it’s not worth the trouble to check. I always thought McCabe was fired for “lack of candor” in an internal FBI investigation, but what do I know.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 8:58 pmNot that Putin would not slip Trump a little something extra (I’m not saying what, where, and how, use your imagination) if Trump succeeded in locking up the deputy director of an agency responsible for stopping Russian spies in the United States.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:01 pmThey cut production because they were embargoing the United States and did not need to produce as much, is my guess. But there was a real, honest-to-goodness “no oil for Yankees” embargo, even if you could still drive to Japan to gas up your Chevy.
nk (1d9030) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:06 pmI stand corrected, his “lack of candor” included times when he was under oath, according to the IG Report.
Apologies for getting this wrong more than once.
Dave (1bb933) — 2/17/2020 @ 9:09 pmIt’s kind of weird to hear Bernie railing against the 1% when he is in the top 5% of wealthy Americans. The dude has 3 houses. I mean, does he not think this is going to be an issue for him at some point? No one has ever played hard ball with him. I think Kobuchar oughta serve him a fastball and see what he does. Come on folks, take off the kid gloves.
JRH (52aed3) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:17 pmI really want to think he’s not a hypocrite. But damn Bernie you shoulda sold 2 of those houses.
JRH (52aed3) — 2/17/2020 @ 11:18 pmI feel no strong investment into whether a communist demagogue is a hypocrite or not, only that they stay out of power.
Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/18/2020 @ 2:30 amThanks for acknowledging the error. We, of course, consider McCabe lying under oath the key point and why he should have been prosecuted; also, why an explanation for not prosecuting him should be made now, as we are extremely lacking in confidence of the federal justice system’s political impartiality.
Make America Ordered Again (afc191) — 2/18/2020 @ 3:17 amMAOA,
“Lack of Candor” isn’t the same thing as lying under oath or making a false statement. Lack of Candor is a higher standard. It’s very possible for an FBI agent to lack candor and deserve to be fired without ever coming close to breaking a law. Let alone having enough evidence to prosecute for perjury. See below for more info / explanation.
Additionally, the head of the DC office was a GOP attorney and is now a former staffer of Bill Barr. Meaning that the decision makers in this case are republicans aligned with Trump.
I share your desire for a detailed explanation but I don’t think one is likely for the reasons I outlined up thread. I think we’re going to have to have to draw conclusions from Trump appointees in DOJ deciding not to prosecute someone that Trump hates.
Time123 (daab2f) — 2/18/2020 @ 4:49 amTo EMBARGO in the sense we used the term with the A-rabs MEANS to withhold from production. It involved the US and several other states which supported Israel. It would have been essentially a vacant exercise to say the US couldn’t have ME oil while maintaining the same production in the world market. We’d just buy what we needed from another source.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 5:04 amThe FBI has not been very nice to Mr. President’s Trump’s friends. Not very nice at all. It keeps investigating them, arresting them, and sending them to prison. It’s awful! That girl, Mariia Valeryevna Butina … Mr. President Trump never even got the chance to tell her she reminded him of his daughter. And Lev Parnas, he was good for another $300,000 in campaign donations at least.
nk (1d9030) — 2/18/2020 @ 5:05 amTo EMBARGO in the sense we used the term with the A-rabs MEANS to withhold from production. It involved the US and several other states which supported Israel. It would have been essentially a vacant exercise to say the US couldn’t have ME oil while maintaining the same production in the world market. We’d just buy what we needed from another source.
Yes. It also curbed diverters. Japan itself would make sure that Henowashi Ichibatu Maru would discharge at Osaka and not Long Beach.
nk (1d9030) — 2/18/2020 @ 5:16 amYes. It also curbed diverters. Japan itself would make sure that Henowashi Ichibatu Maru would discharge at Osaka and not Long Beach.
Really? How did “it” curb diverters? There was a very hard and fast UN prohibition on dealing in Iraqi oil. Sadam still was rich off it.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 6:02 amIf there is only so much oil to go around, because simultaneously with the embargo OPEC also cut oil production, then
Am I writing in Greek, here? Sammy, are we writing in Greek?
nk (1d9030) — 2/18/2020 @ 6:10 amWell, in whatever language, you’re being irrational in trying to insist that an oil embargo did not of NECESSITY entail lower production and a tightened supply world-wide.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 6:16 amMaybe I should speak louder?
nk (1d9030) — 2/18/2020 @ 6:20 amNot if you’re repeating the same nonsense.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 6:24 amRagspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 6:16 am
I’m not sure. I think maybe they also wanted to raise the price. Or took advantage of that. Or else they would have cut back less.
If they wanted to punish the United States maybe it was necessary to cut production to make sure oil did not simply get diverted, with the effect on the United States being only maybe a slight rise caused by longer travel time or an extra middleman.
Sammy Finkelman (393233) — 2/18/2020 @ 7:00 amThe interesting thing about this is that NSA knew in advance of the oil embargo and, incidentally, the Yom Kippur war! This did not get put into the CIA analysis because the NSA refused to reveal its sources to the CIA.
What had happened is that Anwar Sadat had told Saudi Arabia in advance of his plan to start a war. So the NSA knew.
There was a (Nelson) Rockefeller Commission appointed by President Ford to look into the CIA and this was one thing that they found. (besides ethical or legal issues)
This post mortem investigation was focused on not using intelligence that could have revealed the plan for an oil embargo, but that also meant, because of the way they knew it, that they had advance knowledge of the war!
Sammy Finkelman (393233) — 2/18/2020 @ 7:04 amI can’t find the New York Times story I am looking for (which was about what the Rockefeller Commission reported) but I found this:
https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/21/archives/senate-report-criticizes-us-intelligence-on-oil-embargo.html
So the U.S. government knew about the Egyptian plan to go to war with Israel and to embargo oil to the United States two ways – through NSA eavesdropping and through sources inside the Saudi government.
But this was ignored because the people in charge of preparing a report for the president insisted on evaluating the sources and both the NSA and the other parts of the CIA wouldn’t reveal how they knew to those people.
So they ignored what they said and relied solely or mostly on what State Department cables from the embassy in Saudi Arabia said.
Sammy Finkelman (393233) — 2/18/2020 @ 7:06 amVictor,
1. Apparently you don’t read very well.
2. An appeal to authority doesn’t impress me.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 9:36 amRagspierre, let me guess. You were scolded a lot as a child, probably in a household with a bossy mother and a henpecked father a la the Portnoy family, and you take everything somebody says as a criticism.
nk (1d9030) — 2/18/2020 @ 9:42 amNo, nk. When some boob drops out of the ceiling and falsely accuses me of rewriting history, I do take some offense.
Call it a flaw…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/18/2020 @ 10:29 am