Patterico's Pontifications

2/13/2020

John Kelly Unloads on Trump

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:52 am



John Kelly is speaking out about Donald Trump. I can’t know Kelly’s motivations, but anyone who cares about the military can contrast Trump’s threats to Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, who testified against Trump in the impeachment proceedings, to Trump’s pardon of scumbag war criminals, and conclude something is very wrong.

Kelly, a retired Marine Corps general, said that Vindman is blameless and was simply following the training he’d received as a soldier; migrants are “overwhelmingly good people” and “not all rapists”; and Trump’s decision to condition military aid to Ukraine on an investigation into his political rival Joe Biden upended long-standing U.S. policy.

Vindman was rightly disturbed by Trump’s phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in July, Kelly suggested: Having seen something “questionable,” Vindman properly notified his superiors, Kelly said. Vindman, who specialized in Ukraine policy at the National Security Council at the time, was among multiple U.S. officials who listened in on the call. When subpoenaed by Congress in the House impeachment hearings, Vindman complied and told the truth, Kelly said.

“He did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave,” Kelly told the audience at the Mayo Performing Arts Center. “He went and told his boss what he just heard.”

. . . .

When Vindman heard the president tell Zelensky he wanted to see the Biden family investigated, that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said. “We teach them, ‘Don’t follow an illegal order. And if you’re ever given one, you’ll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.’”

(Kelly doesn’t say this, but there’s a very good argument that Trump’s threats to discipline Vindman further violate the Military Whistleblower Protection Act of 1988, which protects military members from retaliation or threatened retaliation (as Trump has clearly done) for various contacts with members of Congress, explicitly including testimony.)

Contrast the treatment of Vindman with that of lowlife cretin Eddie Gallagher:

Responding to questions from the audience, Kelly faulted Trump for intervening in the case of Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was convicted last year of posing with the corpse of an Islamic State fighter. Trump reversed a Navy decision to oust Gallagher, in a chain of events that led to the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard Spencer.

“The idea that the commander in chief intervened there, in my opinion, was exactly the wrong thing to do,” Kelly said. “Had I been there, I think I could have prevented it.”

The audience applauded.

When a woman in the crowd said that Trump had “elevated” Gallagher, Kelly looked out at the crowd.

“Yep,” he said.

Trump is inevitably going to tell us today, or soon, how awful Kelly always was. In preparation, here is a stroll down Twitter memory lane for some more contemporaneous (but pre-criticism of Trump) opinions from Trump about Kelly:

156 Responses to “John Kelly Unloads on Trump”

  1. I think Trump was wrong in the degree to which he intervened in the Eddie Gallagher case, and especially in how he undermined the authority of Rear Admiral (Upper Half) Colin Green, who quite rightly wanted to improve the culture of the Navy SEALs, to maintain good order and discipline.

    If you haven’t looked into it, there have been several recent problems, including a whole SEAL team sent home from Iraq.

    In my opinion, other than cultural at the top (including Trump), one big problem is the teams have expanded too much, too fast.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  2. Errr, I mean “disgruntled General John Kelly”.

    noel (4d3313)

  3. “We teach them, ‘Don’t follow an illegal order. And if you’re ever given one, you’ll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.’”

    What illegal order was Lt. Col. Vindman given?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  4. I am with Munroe: I don’t see what illegal order Lieutenant Colonel Vindman was given.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  5. T-rump is Mr. Destructo when it comes to the ranks of professionals in just about every aspect of government, including attorneys, military leaders, intelligence, diplomacy AND etc. Each of those fields is hemorrhaging talent we really need.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  6. A lot of these “top talent,” in every area you meantioned, sucked. Clearing out deadwood is a plus. Yes, including many of the generals.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  7. When Vindman heard the president tell Zelensky he wanted to see the Biden family investigated, that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said.

    Reading is fundamental. Kelly was exactly correct.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  8. that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said.

    What he heck are you talking about?

    1. Investigating Biden is good and should still be done.

    2. OVERHEARING something is the same effectively as being GIVEN an illegal order?

    Yeah, I don’t think so.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  9. A lot of these “top talent,” in every area you meantioned, sucked.

    Well, that’s one rationalization for supporting the worst manager in the WH that I’ve ever seen.

    You really are something.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  10. Well, that’s one rationalization for supporting the worst manager in the WH that I’ve ever seen.

    The results the country is seeing doesn’t support your opinion of Trump’s management style. Even my criticism of Trump’s military leadership style doesn’t support that conclusion.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  11. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:11 am

    Yes, “hearing” an illegal order is tantamount to being given one. Let’s apply this generally and not just against Trump and see where this leads.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  12. Nunc pro tunc sonavub!tch in “…3, 2, err … what comes after 2, Kellyanne?”

    nk (1d9030)

  13. If Trump supporters could understand written English, they wouldn’t be Trump supporters, now, would they?

    nk (1d9030)

  14. Overhearing the thug-in-chief arm-twisting a foreign leader to get dirt on a political rival IS tantamount to being given an illegal order IN THAT the right thing to do is report the corrupt act by the corrupt POS to proper authorities.

    I’ll remind everyone that NOBODY in the senate believed there was no quid pro quo, AND nobody believed it was a “perfect call”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  15. @7: Actually it’s not even that. Hearing a legal order that you think is illegal is tantamount to being given an illegal order.

    Brilliant!! Kelly should serve on a DC jury.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  16. Munroe, I’ll let you in on a little secret. We are not as dumb as you think we are.

    nk (1d9030)

  17. The results the country is seeing doesn’t support your opinion of Trump’s management style.

    Oh, you’re one of those true-believers who credit Duh Donald with the rain falling and the crops growing!

    Figures…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  18. Oh, you’re one of those true-believers who credit Duh Donald with the rain falling and the crops growing!

    I credit him with a significant part of the uptick in the economy, among other things, as will voters in November.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  19. Voters also credit Obama with the up-tick in the economy.

    It’s a way too common mistake. Innit?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  20. Voters also credit Obama with the up-tick in the economy.

    I don’t recall him being on the ballot.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  21. Fortunately for your great god cheeto, Obama isn’t on the ballot.

    Fortunately for us all…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  22. Fortunately for your great god cheeto, Obama isn’t on the ballot.

    Fortunately for us all…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:33 am

    So you agree Trump is better than Obama.

    Well that’s something, I guess.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  23. It dont mean spit(balls) unless Gen. Kelly does a Zell Miller turn in Milwaukee.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  24. So you agree Trump is better than Obama.

    At what?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  25. Fortunately for your great god cheeto, Obama isn’t on the ballot.

    Fortunately for us all…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:33 am

    Since Trump actually, really won and you still continue him better “for all of us,” then I really don’t know why you’re complaining. There’s no guarantee Cruz, Jeb, or Rubio would have won… and surely Hillary would have been terrible, even when she was sober. Especially then.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  26. How weird that the two trolls in the thread use the same short snotty sarcasm. It’s almost as though it was one troll who got tired of never actually getting someone to agree with him… so he started congratulating himself with a sockpuppet.

    2. OVERHEARING something is the same effectively as being GIVEN an illegal order?

    I like to picture you shouting this.

    And yes, the president’s statements are orders. He doesn’t have to say ‘this is an order.’ Only a complete hack would say someone can’t blow the whistle on unlawful orders or actions they observed. And only a complete hack would say Trump was OK to do what he did. Even many of the GOP senators who refused to convict admitted his actions were totally wrong.

    What do you get out of defending something you know is wrong?

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  27. So you agree Trump is better than Obama.

    At what?

    Keeping Roy Cohn happy.

    nk (1d9030)

  28. I can’t answer your word-salad.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  29. John Kelly as chief of staff oversaw this NSC nonsense.

    The NSC staff ballooned under President Barack Obama from 100 to 236 today. About 80% came as detailees from other agencies such as the CIA, the State Department and the Pentagon.

    “His stacking and expansion of the NSC should have been the first warning,” Mr. Caputo said. “If there is any honor left in our republic, whoever told the president and the Trump family it was just fine to keep Obama holdovers at the NSC should be tarred, feathered and paraded for all the world to see.”

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/12/obama-national-security-council-detailees-led-trum/

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  30. I don’t think what Trump did was wrong. I think what Biden did was wrong. I think the President has an interest in and duty to see corrupt folks are investigated, even assisting other countries.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  31. “The intelligence committees in the House and Senate were created to monitor and oversee the Intelligence Community.

    But Rep. Adam Schiff and the Democrats have made the committee into a partisan weapon, not so much “overseeing” intelligence but rather investigating the president.

    Republicans on the committee, fed up with Schiff’s grandstanding and partisanship, boycotted a hearing today because Schiff refuses to investigate one of the most egregious violations of civil rights by the Intelligence Community in many years; the documented abuses of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/house-republicans-boycott-intel-committee-hearing-due-to-schiffs-refusal-to-hold-fisa-abuse-hearings/
    _

    Is ‘documented abuses’ like giving illegal orders?
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  32. I also have a hard time ever seeing Biden as a serious political rival, tbh. I have been very consistent about that!

    To me Biden is a walking joke, even before I knew how corrupt he is.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  33. paraphrasing:

    “dog faced pony soldier”

    “children like to play with his leg hair”

    plagiarizing Neil Kinnock

    babble coming out of his mouth constantly

    never won a primary

    And on and on. No, I never considered him much of a rival and I have a hard time believing Trump ever did either, despite several people on this blog greatly overestimating his chances.

    So I believe some of you were sincere in thinking he was a serious political rival, but no. He wasn’t.

    And I’m not saying that’s legally relevant; it’s just laughable to think that was Trump’s main motive. No, he wanted to advance justice.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  34. “Obama clearly left the White House booby-trapped,” Michael Caputo, a campaign adviser, told The Washington Times.

    Oh, HE’S not a hack, flack, or slavering boob, is he?

    Given what that piece said, Duh Donald is an even worse, MORE stupid and inept manager.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  35. Yes, IF Biden could stop from saying massively stupid things, THEN as Obama’s VP for eight years, he had a good chance of winning the nomination.

    But I knew he couldn’t, and I don’t understand why you all didn’t or thought they wouldn’t be SO bad as to tank his campaign.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  36. I don’t think what Trump did was wrong.

    No. Of course not.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  37. Dustin (b8d6d1) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:44 am

    How weird that the two trolls in the thread use the same short snotty sarcasm. It’s almost as though it was one troll who got tired of never actually getting someone to agree with him… so he started congratulating himself with a sockpuppet.

    That’s an interesting theory. It brings to mind another dynamic duo.

    frosty (f27e97)

  38. Dude, you are incoherent. Maybe you should take a break.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  39. The Trump administration progression:

    1. _________ is the BEST possible candidate for the job.
    2. _________ is doing a fantastic job. BEST EVER!
    3. _________ tells Trump some truth.
    4. _________ tells Trump some truth, again.
    5. _________ is leaving the WH. Best job! Thanks!
    6. _________ tells about conflicts and difficulties with Trump.
    7. _________ is a traitor and maybe even Satan.
    8. _________ is featured in the Two-Minute Hate.
    9. _________ is a non-person.
    10. [New guy] is the BEST possible candidate for the job….

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  40. That I consider Trump the best of several terrible choices does not mean he’s a good choice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. tantamount to

    Same as “wasn’t”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/13/2020 @ 9:02 am

    Yeah, that’s actually a fair summary.

    Then, you have the opposite extreme with undue loyalty to appointees, like keeping moron Susan Rice around forever no matter her ineptitude.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  43. I don’t think every officer reporting to their superiors every time they think the President said something they’re not sure is legal is a great career move or way to run a country, but sure, if they overhear him planning to genocide the Hungarians or something, I guess mention that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  44. “Obama clearly left the White House booby-trapped,” Michael Caputo, a campaign adviser, told The Washington Times.

    Were they expecting boobies?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. 29

    John Kelly as chief of staff oversaw this NSC nonsense.

    The NSC staff ballooned under President Barack Obama from 100 to 236 today. About 80% came as detailees from other agencies such as the CIA, the State Department and the Pentagon.

    “His stacking and expansion of the NSC should have been the first warning,” Mr. Caputo said. “If there is any honor left in our republic, whoever told the president and the Trump family it was just fine to keep Obama holdovers at the NSC should be tarred, feathered and paraded for all the world to see.”

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/12/obama-national-security-council-detailees-led-trum/

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:47 am

    Whatever you feel about Trump. The idea that holdovers from previous administration would stay on board the new administration is now dead. (I remember Obama and Bush did that… but Bush waited till 2nd term to fire all AUSAs).

    As a practical matter, an incoming new administration ought to fire everyone and put their own people in place. If the job isn’t the kind that you can ask for resignation, then the expectation ought to be that reassignment would be the default position (unless, of course the incoming administration want specific folks to remain there).

    whembly (fd57f6)

  46. Could you make that into a flow chart, comment39, Kevin M? Downloadable for the newbies at the White House who think they will be the exception.

    noel (4d3313)

  47. an incoming new administration ought to fire everyone and put their own people in place

    And if “their own people” find the president intolerable to work under, then the president and his minions will all say that those people were incompetent, or “didn’t have what it takes,” or were really Deep State moles or deadwood all along.

    And heaven forfend that there be people in federal administrative offices who imagine they’re supposed to be serving the country rather than the president.

    Radegunda (24de45)

  48. https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2020/02/jessie-liu-resigns-treasury-pulled-nomination/

    Another brilliant piece of personnel management by the thug in the Oval Office.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  49. 2. OVERHEARING something is the same effectively as being GIVEN an illegal order?

    Yeah, I don’t think so.

    Not the same. But If a soldier hear’s another soldier given an illegal order I think silence isn’t the right response.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  50. I don’t think every officer reporting to their superiors every time they think the President said something they’re not sure is legal is a great career move or way to run a country, but sure, if they overhear him planning to genocide the Hungarians or something, I guess mention that.

    There’s that talent for propaganda coming out again.

    …the President said something they’re not sure is legal…

    When you work for a corrupt, bullying thug, and you hear him violating the law, his oath of office, and everything you’ve been taught America is about, your career moves shrink dramatically…

    if you have integrity.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  51. an incoming new administration ought to fire everyone and put their own people in place

    Trump hasn’t done especially well at filling positions that are actually vacant, and he prefers “acting” directors of this & that who don’t need congressional confirmation and are more dependent on pleasing his ego.

    Some Trump defenders seem to agree with his opinion that he knows more than his staff about everything anyway and he should just issue decrees from the residence while he’s watching OANN and rage-tweeting.

    Radegunda (24de45)

  52. Dude, you are incoherent. Maybe you should take a break.

    ~

    There’s that talent for propaganda coming out again.

    Which is it, man. Make up your mind.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  53. His first term more than 3/4ths over and he still hasn’t assembled a White House team that he can call his own. He can go kiss my fat aunt Fanny.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. Did I just read that Hope Hicks is returning to the White House now that the legal threats that could snare her testimony are over?

    noel (4d3313)

  55. Both were apt responses. Can’t YOU flex according to need?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  56. His first term more than 3/4ths over and he still hasn’t assembled a White House team that he can call his own.

    Well, this much is totally true, and is responsible for his biggest failings.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  57. Oh, NO!

    HE’s to blame for his biggest failures.

    Always has been. And has always laid them off on others.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  58. He only trusts Ivanka. Everyone else would stick a knife in his ribs and vice versa.

    JRH (52aed3)

  59. He only trusts Ivanka.

    His biggest error. She’s a traitor.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  60. Oh, NO!

    HE’s to blame for his biggest failures.

    He isn’t alone.

    “If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit for a month.”
    —Teddy Roosevelt

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  61. He only trusts Ivanka.

    His biggest error. She’s a traitor.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/13/2020 @ 10:02 am

    a-HAH!!! – So is Jared a closet Bloomberg guy?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  62. 59

    He only trusts Ivanka.

    His biggest error. She’s a traitor.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/13/2020 @ 10:02 am

    wat?

    whembly (fd57f6)

  63. The quote from the Atlantic article omits some important context:

    Trump’s decision to condition military aid to Ukraine on an investigation into his political rival Joe Biden upended long-standing U.S. policy.

    Vindman was rightly disturbed by Trump’s phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in July, Kelly suggested: Having seen something “questionable,” Vindman properly notified his superiors, Kelly said. Vindman, who specialized in Ukraine policy at the National Security Council at the time, was among multiple U.S. officials who listened in on the call. When subpoenaed by Congress in the House impeachment hearings, Vindman complied and told the truth, Kelly said.

    “He did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave,” Kelly told the audience at the Mayo Performing Arts Center. “He went and told his boss what he just heard.”

    Although Trump has long insisted that his call to Zelensky was “perfect,” Kelly made clear that Trump indeed conditioned military aid on Zelensky’s help digging up dirt on the Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.

    That amounted to a momentous change in U.S. policy toward Ukraine—one that Vindman was right to flag, because other federal agencies needed to know about the shift, Kelly said.

    “Through the Obama administration up until that phone call, the policy of the U.S. was militarily to support Ukraine in their defensive fight against … the Russians,” Kelly said. “And so, when the president said that continued support would be based on X, that essentially changed. And that’s what that guy [Vindman] was most interested in.”

    When Vindman heard the president tell Zelensky he wanted to see the Biden family investigated, that was tantamount to hearing “an illegal order,” Kelly said. “We teach them, ‘Don’t follow an illegal order. And if you’re ever given one, you’ll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.’”

    Kelly’s chief concern, as he is defending Vindman, seems to be not that Trump was engaged in corruption, but that he was changing U.S. policy to Ukraine.

    The problem with that is, it is Trump’s prerogative to do so, and that his actions change U.S. policy does not make his call an “illegal order.”

    IIRC, Vindman made a similar statement during his Congressional testimony, and I had the same reaction then.

    Now you can say that Kelly and Vindman were concerned about both. But that is not what Kelly is saying.

    There is a big difference in my mind between saying, “I have to report the President for acting crooked” and “I have to report the President for changing U.S. foreign policy.” Kelly seems to be saying the latter.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  64. Not the same. But If a soldier hear’s another soldier given an illegal order I think silence isn’t the right response.

    Yes, but in this case it wasn’t illegal and it wasn’t an order. What is a soldier to do with an unethical request?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. an incoming new administration ought to fire everyone and put their own people in place

    The used to do that, up until Congress passed the Civil Service laws. Now, only “political” appointees may be fired without cause. Intended to protect professional employees from partisan pressure, it now serves more to protect employees from ANY pressure while still allowing biased hiring.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. Well, Trump is now bashing Kelley, which takes us to point 7.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1227986935240691712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1227986935240691712

    When I terminated John Kelly, which I couldn’t do fast enough, he knew full well that he was way over his head. Being Chief of Staff just wasn’t for him. He came in with a bang, went out with a whimper, but like so many X’s, he misses the action & just can’t keep his mouth shut, which he actually has a military and legal obligation to do. His incredible wife, Karen, who I have a lot of respect for, once pulled me aside & said strongly that “John respects you greatly. When we are no longer here, he will only speak well of you.” Wrong!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. There is a big difference in my mind between saying, “I have to report the President for acting crooked” and “I have to report the President for changing U.S. foreign policy.” Kelly seems to be saying the latter.

    That’s a stretch right out of The Incredibles!

    I gonna go out on a limb here and guess that this Vindman cat is WAY smart enough to know that a POTUS can change foreign policy.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  68. Yes, but in this case it wasn’t illegal and it wasn’t an order.

    It wasn’t an order. Nobody said it was.

    It WAS illegal, however. And corrupt. And Trumpy…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  69. illegal, however. And corrupt. And Trumpy…

    Stop being so redundant mang.

    JRH (52aed3)

  70. @67 That might be a skinny limb. Vindman focused on two things, this was inconsistent with the policy on Ukraine and any investigation was likely to impact bipartisan support in congress. More fundamentally his issue was this was bad for Ukraine and that made it bad for the US for reasons related to Russia.

    frosty (f27e97)

  71. Kevin @ 66. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ….

    nk (1d9030)

  72. His incredible wife, Karen, who I have a lot of respect for, once pulled me aside & said strongly that “John respects you greatly. When we are no longer here, he will only speak well of you.” Wrong!

    Thang rat thar is that we all know that Duh Donald just lies an’ lies an’ lies…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  73. “this Vindman cat”
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/13/2020 @ 11:13 am

    It’s Lt. Col. Vindman. Respect.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  74. I gonna go out on a limb here and guess that this Vindman cat is WAY smart enough to know that a POTUS can change foreign policy.

    Whatever you have out there on your “limb,” I evaluate someone’s position on what they say. Neither Vindman nor Kelly said, Trump was acting as a crook. They said he was changing U.S policy.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  75. 3. Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:05 am

    What illegal order was Lt. Col. Vindman given?

    It wasn’r. General Kellyy is simply using too strong an argument. A better comparison wold be, hearing a superior give a possibly illegal order to someone else. Now General Kelly could speak about what he thinks about that.

    One thing: The thing that made this wrong, was the fact that Trump’s statements about the Crowdstrike and the server weren’t factual. Vindman probably knew that. It is unlikely he knew about Biden accusation, which Trump didn’t give first place to, but it probably would have struck Vindman as highly improbable that Joe Biden would have boasted about an obstruction of justice.

    And the thing I think that he actually complained about was the top secret protection given to the transcript of the call, not illegal, but strange. He may have done more, though, and not just in regards to the call. Yet that is to be expected when someone’s sensibilities are affected.

    Members of Congress are not against the transfer of the Vindman brothers, because this is, after all, a temporary appointment anyway, and it’s his staff, and they can be presumed to have broken with the broken with the president. Not so the abrupt recall of Gordon Sondland as Ambassador to the European Union. It’s all right, I think they said, that he doesn’t see how he an use him any more for anything important (and he did go off on his own) but, seeing as he stayed on all throughout the impeachment, he should not have been removed so abruptly, and he planning to resign soon anyway, so that should have been allowed to happen.

    Really bad, and perhaps Trump is having second thoughts about this, or maybe never actually determined to follow the advice of whomever it was to do this, is pulling the nomination of Elaine McCusker to be the Pentagon’s comptroller and chief financial officer

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/11/white-house-expected-to-drop-pentagon-nominee-elaine-mccusker-amid-ukraine-fallout

    currently Deputy Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) and described in a December 30, 2019, New York Times front page article as “the Pentagon’s top budget official”

    She did nothing wrong, and her objections were concerned with legality, not whether the policy was wise or stupid. * As a matter of fact, by raising questions, she was protecting the president from getting into trouble.

    Trump may have realized this, or been brought to realize this.

    A more recent story says:

    https://www.defenseone.com/politics/2020/02/dod-nominee-who-questioned-ukraine-aid-holdup-denies-report-about-her-ouster/163075

    After giving a closed-door briefing on the president’s budget proposal on the Hill Wednesday afternoon, McCusker declined to comment in detail on the Tuesday report by the New York Post. Asked by Defense One if she would credit the story, she said: “I wouldn’t.”

    So far, the Hill is in the dark about any plans to withdraw McCusker’s nomination. The president hasn’t spoken publicly about McCusker, as he has with Vindman. The committee in charge of confirming McCusker, the Senate Armed Services Committee, still plans to move forward with her nomination — although a packed committee calendar means that any hearing is likely a few months off — and has received no indication from either the Pentagon or the White House that the nomination is expected to be withdrawn.

    A Pentagon spokesman, Christopher Sherwood, said that McCusker currently remains the acting comptroller. She has already been confirmed by the Senate as deputy comptroller.

    ———-
    * She doesn’t get into that kind of thing.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  76. 33. Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/13/2020 @ 8:53 am

    , I never considered him much of a rival and I have a hard time believing Trump ever did either,

    Trump said, after the scandal broke, that he didn’t think Biden would be the nominee, ad never thought so, but I am not sure he’s on record as saying that before. Joe Biden would not have to be the most likely Democratic nominee for Trump to be interested in a corruption story about him. It would hurt Democrats in general.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  77. I evaluate someone’s position on what they say.

    Well, no you don’t. Hence we have Kelly using the “illegal” allusion. He didn’t say “We train them to speak up when someone says they’re changing their mind”.

    Did he?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  78. Sure.

    As it should.

    This impeachment hurt Democrats as I could have told them it would. It was stupid of them.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  79. “I credit him with a significant part of the uptick in the economy, among other things, as will voters in November.”

    Here’s a fun little game, that takes some economic trends and removes the dates. You can then guess when master businessman Donald Trump took over from Obama: http://www.whendidtrump.com/trump.html

    I also am old enough to remember when people would denigrate the Obama economy because of 1) the labor participation rate and 2) no year in which GDP growth reached 3%. Well, guess which milestones you never hear about anymore, because Trump hasn’t improved on either of these.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  80. It isn’t just the trend, it’s how high.

    Obama didn’t expect it to get this high.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  81. “Obama didn’t expect it to get this high.”

    Expect what to get this high?

    I’ll also match you 2 for 1 on Obama vs Trump saying incorrect things about the economy.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  82. Obama didn’t expect it to get this high.

    Great god, you’ll tell any damned lie!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  83. Davethulhu (fab944) — 2/13/2020 @ 12:30 pm

    It looks like the labor participation rate is slowly going back up.

    Davethulhu (fab944) — 2/13/2020 @ 12:37 pm

    (The) hard truth is that some of the jobs that have been lost in the auto industry and elsewhere won’t be coming back.

    My expectation is, is that we will probably continue to see unemployment tick up for several months.
    – Obama 2009

    When somebody says like the person you just mentioned who I’m not going to advertise for, that he’s going to bring all these jobs back. Well how exactly are you going to do that? What are you going to do? There’s no answer to it.
    – Obama 2016

    Trump’s Policy “Magic Wand” Boosts Manufacturing Jobs 399% In First 26 Months Over Obama’s Last 26

    It’s not clear in all cases whether BO didn’t expect the participation rate to rebound or something else. For these, he was expecting the number of manufacturing jobs to continue the downward trend.

    frosty (f27e97)

  84. For these, he was expecting the number of manufacturing jobs to continue the downward trend.

    BS.

    When you take people out of context, you can torture their words to make them say anything you want.

    Obama was stating a tautology. SOME jobs are NOT coming back. Ever. And we wouldn’t especially want them to, since they’ve been supplanted by automation and other manifestations of capital that make Americans among the most productive people on the planet.

    Of course Duh Donald has COST the economy jobs in several sectors that his pom-pom squad never deal with honestly.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  85. “It looks like the labor participation rate is slowly going back up.”

    It’s still way below the point that people started making a big deal about it during the Obama administration.

    “Trump’s Policy “Magic Wand” Boosts Manufacturing Jobs 399% In First 26 Months Over Obama’s Last 26″

    https://i.imgur.com/bAP6FiI.png

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  86. https://mgmresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/US-Real-GDP-Growth-1980-2020-2.png

    Note the rise in GDP during 2010 (Barackula’s admin.). The strongest year for his admin. was 2015, and equal to Duh Donald’s best year. BUT neither POTUS MADE the economy good. POTUS doesn’t have that power.

    Last year was just barely over 2%, and this year will be below that.

    But, according to Smilin’ Mike Pence, we are all Keynesians now!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  87. According to CNN, Barr just unloaded on Trump for his DoJ-related tweets, saying they make it “impossible” for him to do his job.

    Developing…

    Dave (784201)

  88. @85 People started making a big deal about it with BO because several indicators showed problems but BO’s crew keep playing with numbers and trying to reframe the issue, e.g. the created or saved and the shovel ready propaganda.

    If they’re being ignored or downplayed now it’s because they can’t be used to political advantage.

    frosty (f27e97)

  89. If they’re being ignored or downplayed now it’s because they can’t be used to political advantage.

    What? You mean like your 83?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  90. “If they’re being ignored or downplayed now it’s because they can’t be used to political advantage.“

    Yes, that’s my point.

    There was a lot of “these aren’t the real unemployment numbers” during his term, but nothing has changed in how they are calculated now.

    Another metric that the usual suspects are oddly silent about is the deficit. It has almost doubled (585 to 960 billion) in Trump’s 3 years. Where are all the deficit hawks?

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  91. Where are all the deficit hawks?

    We’re over here with the other actual conservatives, right where we’ve been since Trump began selling his buckets of boob-bait.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  92. Unfortunately, we getting MSM PARAPHRASES of what Barr said. What did BARR actually say? If you listen to the whole interview, Barr says that he Can’t do his job if he has “Constant background Noise” aka tweets “Undercutting what I do here”. He doesn’t like the tweets, but the main concern is the tweets on on-going criminal cases before the DoJ.

    Knowing Barr, no doubt he’s told the POTUS the same thing to his face. The ABC interviewer was terrible, full of “Concern” that big bad Trump will crush poor little AG Barr for “Standing up to him”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  93. Its astounding how Lawyers think of themselves as a Priestly class that we’re all supposed to bow down to. Their have their precious legalism and if anyone questions them its somehow invalid or unfair.

    The Stone prosecution is an outrage, and Trump has the right to tweet about it. If Barr wants to quit – then go ahead Mr. Barr.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  94. It reminds me of Comey and his insane idea that the POTUS didn’t have the right to speak to him directly because….ethics or something Like the FBI was the 4th branch of government. Mr Vindman seemed to have the same idea, somehow the POTUS didn’t get to make Foreign policy with Col Vindman’s approval and that of the foreign policy bureaucrats.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  95. Current CNN headline: Angry Democrats Call for Barr to Resign!

    What a bunch of clowns.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  96. @90 I should have said, “used to political advantage by his critics”. It’s an issue of who’s doing the complaining and what the numbers say. With BO he was trying to spin a bad situation and people could use these other metrics to show why it was spin. And it was obvious there were problems.

    Trump critics can’t really use the unemployment numbers against him. Some of the numbers aren’t at all-time highs but the direction is up and the general consensus is that things are improving. Even if they say these aren’t “real” numbers there’s no other negative indicators to cite. Employment generally looks good. The criticism has to focus on how they aren’t as good as he says.

    Where are all the deficit hawks?

    I don’t know. I give him some credit for the uptick but there are still problems that aren’t getting fixed.

    frosty (f27e97)

  97. Roger Stone and Jack Posobiec reported in 2017 about John Kelly keeping alternative media away from Trump’s desk in favor of mainstream media.

    Kelly did Trump no favors and contributed to Trump having a relatively poor staff. Trump should have chosen people who are America First.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  98. but the direction is up and the general consensus is that things are improving.

    Can you read a graph? Look at the trend-line since 2009.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  99. Trump should have chosen people who are America First.

    Instead of Trump sucking myrmidons like Trump insists on.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  100. @98 The labor participation rate I linked looks like it hit its lowest in 2015 and is going back up. Continuing jobless claims also turned around. As did the number of unemployed and the unemployment rate.

    Is there some other graph you’ve got in mind?

    frosty (f27e97)

  101. Except of course it was neither an order nor illegal. The traitorous Ukrainian Jew was just pissed that the president had the gall to change US foreign policy towards his homeland without the approval of paper-shuffling bureaucrats like him.

    Permitting foreigners to hold the rank of LTC in the US armed forces is insane.

    BorisB (36f5dc)

  102. Trump added: “I may end the practice entirely, I may end it entirely.”

    He was speaking of allowing security professionals and others from the Administration listen in on calls the President makes to foreign leaders. Of course. Why would we want our side to know what’s going on?

    noel (4d3313)

  103. According to CNN, Barr just unloaded on Trump for his DoJ-related tweets, saying they make it “impossible” for him to do his job.

    Developing…

    Dave (784201) — 2/13/2020 @ 1:27 pm

    Heh… it’ll be interesting if Trump keeps his trap shut or ignores Barr.

    What’s the wager here guys?

    whembly (51f28e)

  104. “ The traitorous Ukrainian Jew”

    Yikes.

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  105. The traitorous Ukrainian Jew…

    Welp, you checked that box, too, alt-right boi!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  106. https://i.imgur.com/bAP6FiI.png

    That’s a more valid graph, as it takes a longer sample range extending from the “Great Recession”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  107. “ Roger Stone and Jack Posobiec reported in 2017 about John Kelly keeping alternative media away from Trump’s desk in favor of mainstream media.”

    Jack “Pizzagate” Posobiec? That Jack Posobiec?

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  108. As opposed to Washington “Russiagate” Post.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  109. Moby’s and Trolls. Just ignore them.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  110. 105 And you checked all the boxes for TDS.

    BorisB (36f5dc)

  111. “ As opposed to Washington “Russiagate” Post.”

    You’re ridiculous.

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  112. And you checked all the boxes for TDS

    Trump Discernment Sense?

    Yeppers! That’s me!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  113. Oh, and thanks for posting a graph showing a very obvious uptick just after Trump took office following complete stagnation under Marxist Chimp. That was big of you, champ, lol.

    Bwahaha, what a moron! When you were ticking the TDS boxes, did you do it with crayons?

    BorisB (36f5dc)

  114. Maybe it’s not a coincidence that Jack Goldsmith wrote a piece at The Dispatch (here), basically saying that the AG’s choices are to “tell Trump to stop interfering in DoJ business, he can stop acting on that interference, or he can quit,” and Barr goes on ABC News later today today and stands up for his cratering reputation and department (link).

    In an extraordinary rebuke of President Trump, Attorney General William P. Barr said on Thursday that Mr. Trump’s attacks on the Justice Department had made it “impossible for me to do my job” and asserted that “I’m not going to be bullied or influenced by anybody.”

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  115. Meh. It’s theater. Who gives a damn what Kelly says now.

    When it truly mattered and he was in the treneches where it could have counted, he failed to stand up and publicly display the courage of his suddenly discovered convictions.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  116. Barr considers all of this just background commentary by Trump (but says it is creating problems for him)

    He doesn’t need the color commentary.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  117. @114. More likely, Barr discovered his department staff is in near mutiny and poured gasoline in his desk drawers and shoes and told him they all gonna strike a match if he doesn’t light a fire under his own ass and make some effort to at least feign a rebuke of this interference. But the damage is done. Barr has less credibility than Hitler did at Munich. John Mitchell would be so proud…

    ‘Watch what we do, not what we say,’ – former Nixon Attorney General and convicted Watergate felon John Mitchell.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. So Barr has decided that it’s a good idea to bitch about his boss to the enemy media?

    BorisB (36f5dc)

  119. Oh, and thanks for posting a graph showing a very obvious uptick just after Trump took office following complete stagnation

    Well, no need to thank me. Some of us value the truth, unlike you.

    What the graph shows isn’t “complete stagnation”. That’s just a stupid lie.

    We may be lucky to see “complete stagnation” like that this year.

    Where is that 4, 5, 6% growth that Duh Donald lied to you about, throwing out THAT particular bucket of boob bait?

    Hmmmm…???

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  120. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see just fine what that graph shows, champ. Thanks again for making my case for me. That was just too easy. Talk about an own-goal, lol.

    On a more general note, you have a low-powered brain, for which you try to compensate by posting reams of barely-coherent waffle, usually with comical results such as the one above. Haha.

    BorisB (36f5dc)

  121. @118 Yes. We’ll see what Trump does in response. But it’s good to remember that before he was a reality 2.0 star he had some fun with pro-wrestling (the OG reality TV). Is this a heal-face turn? Is this the shine, heat or comeback, Maybe Barr is taking liberties or maybe it’s just a sell?

    frosty (f27e97)

  122. https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2020/02/13/barr-roger-stone-sentencing-fiasco-trumps-tweets-making-impossible-job/

    Allahpundit things the Barr/Boob in the WH kerfuffle is a rope-a-dope.

    I hope not. I’d like to think well of someone associated with T-rump.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  123. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-passes-measure-curb-trumps-war-powers-rare-bipartisan-vote

    Well, that’s good. Now do some more limiting, and hope he abides by the law for a change.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  124. ruby ridge barr
    all one needs to know

    mg (8cbc69)

  125. barr has style outfitting in safari wear on a pontoon plane landing and doing some oil business with the eskimos

    mg (8cbc69)

  126. So Barr has decided that it’s a good idea to bitch about his boss to the enemy media?

    He’s got a point.

    Make America Ordered Again (afc191)

  127. “The President has full faith and confidence in Attorney General Barr to do his job and uphold the law.” — Stephanie Grisham

    I give Barr three more weeks. The orange is not going to let this go. He’s going to seethe, and seethe, and seethe, like the b!tchy-b!tch b!tch he is, and boil over.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. Perhaps someone can point out to Boris that Ivana Marie Zelnickova arrived in the US at the age of 27, that Melanija Knavs arrived in the US at age 26, approximately 17 years after Alexander and Yevgeny Vindman arrived in the US as 3 year old boys.

    Kishnevi (e715ab)

  129. Perhaps someone can point out to Boris that…Alexander and Yevgeny Vindman arrived in the US as 3 year old boys.

    It wouldn’t matter. He’s a hater, and a real apt disciple of T-rump.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  130. I just figure that if it’s reasonable to suspect Lt Col Vindman of dual loyalty, it’s also reasonable to suspect the two ladies I mentioned of dual loyalty.

    Kishnevi (e715ab)

  131. Still waiting for what illegal order Vindman Reported to his superior. I do know his superior did not find anything that needed to be advanced up the Chain of command. Kelly will not submit to extensive questioning along the lines of Vindman contradicting his CiC

    Iowantwo (f843a2)

  132. First off, commenter #39, Kevin M, nails Trump’s “management style” perfectly.

    Secondly, here is a quote from the Fox News article on the Kelly speech that gets right to the hidden heart of the matter:

    “Through the Obama administration up until that phone call, the policy of the U.S. was militarily to support Ukraine in their defensive fight against … the Russians,” Kelly reportedly said. “And so, when the president said that continued support would be based on X, that [policy] essentially changed. And that’s what that guy [Vindman] was most interested in.”

    There it is. From the outset of all this quid pro quo nonsense, I have been saying consistently that everyone’s Biden fixation is a convenient diversion from the real issue here, the issue that no one on center stage, and certainly no one in the Trump cult (aka today’s Republican Party) wants to let out of the bag: The true scandal here is about Trump serving Russian interests.

    His primary concern in placing new conditions on longstanding U.S. commitments to Ukraine was not about 2020. It was about trying to avoid acting in any way that might look like a rebuke to Putin, and therefore anger him, such as by giving military support to Ukraine’s efforts to defend itself against Russia. He was trying to change U.S. policy by fiat, or at least to distance himself from that policy at a personal level.

    Trump has been resisting and dragging his heels against the civilized world’s, and even his own party’s, judgments and policy choices with regard to Putin since day one. (Crimea, G20, Syria.) In every instance, he tries to quash any effort to reduce Putin’s influence or thwart his ambitions. Short of that, he takes pains to position himself in a personal light that is in no way disagreeable to Putin, and to distance himself from all American government resistance to Putin’s global thuggery and expansionist projects.

    Why he has consistently behaved this way, since before the 2016 election, is anyone’s guess. (My guess is abject cowardice and an amoral teenager’s fawning admiration for bullies, which is consistent with his statements and behavior toward various other tyrants.) But that he has behaved this way could not be more obvious.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  133. Still waiting for what illegal order Vindman Reported to his superior.

    You poor thing. Bless your heart.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  134. Trump contradicts past denials, admits sending Giuliani to Ukraine

    Not even the Orange can prevent Geraldo from getting at the truth!

    Dave (784201)

  135. When it truly mattered and he was in the treneches where it could have counted, he failed to stand up and publicly display the courage of his suddenly discovered convictions.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/13/2020 @ 3:26 pm

    He seems to have shown us his thoughts here, when he said if he had been there he could have prevented some of the BS happening now. I imagine he spent a lot of his admin time knocking down unethical ideas, while at the same time portraying the company man as much as he had to.

    I grant your point, but it’s fundamentally Trump’s fault that his people feel they have to pose as loyal to protect their country, and compromise their integrity. It’s probably not so simple… greed, the temptation of power, it all silently tilts the scales towards playing along and rationalizing it as protecting us from the thing they are part of.

    Trump very well could win re-election because of those calculations. And he would be so much worse in term 2.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  136. @135. but it’s fundamentally Trump’s fault that his people feel they have to pose as loyal to protect their country, and compromise their integrity

    No.

    It’s their own fault.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. Still waiting for what illegal order Vindman Reported to his superior.

    The same order that got the orange im-peach-ed. What was that first article of impeachment? Ordering the aid to Ukraine held up until Ukraine gave the orange dirt on Biden? Yes, yes, I do believe that was the first article of impeachment that impeached the orange making him the third President, and first orange, to be impeached in 231 years.

    Why are f***ing Trumpkins so f***ing tiresome?

    nk (1d9030)

  138. The illegal order was one to maintain OPSEC when witnessing an illegal action by a superior officer (The President of the United States, in this case).

    Nic (896fdf)

  139. Perhaps someone can point out to Boris that Ivana Marie Zelnickova arrived in the US at the age of 27, that Melanija Knavs arrived in the US at age 26, approximately 17 years after Alexander and Yevgeny Vindman arrived in the US as 3 year old boys.

    Kishnevi (e715ab)

    And…?

    BorisB (36f5dc)

  140. See @130

    Kishnevi (e715ab)

  141. He doesn’t have the snap that the Vindman brothers are more American than he is.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  142. Trump contradicts past denials, admits sending Giuliani to Ukraine

    And wishes he could send his trusted advisor to Siberia.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  143. Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 2/13/2020 @ 5:55 pm

    You’re probably right! If so, I give Trump credit for his tactic. The democrats would be much more worried about an attack on their (then) likely candidate than foreign policy.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  144. “The same order that got the orange im-peach-ed.“
    nk (1d9030) — 2/13/2020 @ 7:12 pm

    … and acquitted.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  145. @ 143: Dustin, Democrats must be flummoxed by Trump’s “foreign policy.” He has stolen all the moves they used to do behind closed doors or (accidently) into hot mics, and he has turned those secret anti-American subversions into boastful, brazen betrayals of American interests and America’s allies — and his supporters shout “MAGA!” and “Nobel Prize!” for each and every betrayal.

    Imagine if Obama had known he could away with this kind of stuff — Kurds, Putin, China, North Korea — by just shouting it through a megaphone while wearing an “America First” T-shirt.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  146. “The same order that got the orange im-peach-ed.“
    nk (1d9030) — 2/13/2020 @ 7:12 pm

    … and acquitted.

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 2/13/2020 @ 9:19 pm

    Yeah, right, like he could get a fair jury in DC. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  147. Imagine if Obama had known he could away with this kind of stuff — Kurds, Putin, China, North Korea — by just shouting it through a megaphone while wearing an “America First” T-shirt.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 2/13/2020 @ 9:29 pm

    Unfortunately, they all know it now.

    Dustin (b8d6d1)

  148. See @130

    Kishnevi (e715ab)

    I’ve never advocated for either of those ladies to be placed in a position of influence over foreign policy to their respective homelands, so I still don’t see what your point is.

    BorisB (291782)

  149. Unfortunately, they all know it now.

    And the next guy will have Antifa.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  150. @149: “And the next guy will have Antifa.”

    Antifa for America! Making America Just Again!

    If they had the chutzpah and reality-TV sensibility of Trump, they could make it work. After all, he did.

    Kurdish blood for America! Legitimizing permanent communist totalitarianism on the Korean peninsula for America! Abandoning Hong Kong with moral equivalency arguments in defense of China for America! Blowing out the debt ceiling for America! Defending Putin against the G20 for America! Supporting Russia’s claim to Crimea for America!

    Go team!

    Anyway, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The “next guy” will be Trump. He’s going to beat No One by about 54-46.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  151. Poor Lou Dobbs…he’s become such a T-rump butt-boi

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  152. So, in just the last few days, both Duh Donald and his crazy lawyer (Rusy…h/t Sammy) have admitted lying profusely…and just bizarrely…about Ukraine.

    The Stone imbroglio has provided cover enough that this hasn’t been a matter of focus.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  153. @149: “And the next guy will have Antifa.”

    Anyway, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The “next guy” will be Trump. He’s going to beat No One by about 54-46.

    Well, Darren’s anticipated next guy might be setting us up for the announcement of all announcements in term 2.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  154. The orange never ceases to disappoint me. There was one thing left that I was giving him credit for, that he personally was keeping it on the downlow, and now that looks like it’s going out the window (coming out of the closet?) too.

    nk (1d9030)

  155. have admitted lying profusely…and just bizarrely…about Ukraine

    .

    Lying profusely and bizarrely doesn’t bother Trumpistas in the least, as long as Trump or his defenders are doing it.

    Radegunda (24de45)

  156. Now we have to add Tucker Carlson to the liar column. He leads his show last night with the lie that Stone is looking at nine years for lying…which is a lie. Or two.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

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