Patterico's Pontifications

2/10/2020

Bernie Sanders Is the Candidate Donald Trump Hopes to Face

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:47 am



You never know who will actually perform well, of course. A lot of Democrats got too clever by half and hoped Donald Trump would be the GOP nominee in 2016. But Sanders has some major baggage, and Democrats would do well to heed it. Because if they pick Bernie, they are likely to lose. Gabriel Schoenfeld explains:

When Iranian Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and his minions seized dozens of American hostages in 1979 and held 52 of them for 444 days, Americans across the spectrum were united in outrage and in seeking their safe return. Sanders, at the time, was a backer of an obscure Marxist-Leninist political party that pledged support for the Iranian theocracy and defended the hostage-taking. In line with Iranian propaganda, the party alleged that the captured diplomats and other U.S. Embassy workers were likely CIA agents.

This at the very moment when those Americans were being abused and tortured for precisely that charge.

. . . .

Trump, who has made challenging the Iranian theocracy a centerpiece of his foreign policy, is going to have a field day with this single item. “Crazy Bernie” is his stupid moniker for Sanders. Unfortunately, it has genuine substance to back it.

If support for this group was a completely isolated moment from Sanders’ past, perhaps somehow he could get away from it by calling it a youthful indiscretion. The trouble is, however, that he was in his late 30s at the time. Moreover, he has never addressed this chapter of his past to explain how and why and when his views have changed. Nor was it a one-off. Whatever Sanders says now, at a moment when he is trying to compete in the American mainstream, he has made a lifelong career of ingratiating himself with anti-American radicals of various left-wing stripes.

The same way Donald Trump has never met a murderous dictator he didn’t like, Bernie Sanders has never met a left-wing dictator he didn’t like. As the piece notes, “from Cuba’s Fidel Castro to Nicaragua’s Daniel Ortega of Sandinista fame,” Sanders has supported them all. After honeymooning in the Soviet Union, he gushed that “there are some things that (the Soviet Union does) better than we do and which were, in fact, quite impressive. Subway systems in Moscow costs 5 kopecs — or 7 cents. Faster, cleaner, more attractive and more efficient than any in the U.S. — and cheap.”

I’m not sure I could vote for Bernie over Donald Trump. I might have to sit that one out. But my vote doesn’t matter. The point is that other Americans scared by Bernie’s record would likely vote for Trump. If defeating Donald Trump is one of the most important issues to the Democrats — and it should be — choosing Bernie Sanders is political suicide.

What follows is exclusive footage (MUST CREDIT PATTERICO!!1!) of New Hampshire Democrat primary voters.

232 Responses to “Bernie Sanders Is the Candidate Donald Trump Hopes to Face”

  1. Two words: Jeremy Corbryn

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  2. Or Biden. Biden’ is a total loser.

    However, he did just call a woman a “Lying, Dog-Faced Pony Soldier” on the campaign trail so perhaps I’m wrong about his astounding campaigning skills.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  3. Buttigieg, whom the DNC cheated in the Iowa Caucuses for, and Bloomberg, whom the DNC chamged the debate eligibility ruless for, are the two now-declared candidates whom the DNC sees as maybe, possibly could win the general election.

    They’re not wrong.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  4. Bernie getting the nomination and seeing the likes of Bloomberg, Clinton, Biden, Obama and Dem governors having to endorse and campaign for him is too delicious to adequately savor.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  5. None of the Democratic candidates has a slogan half as effective as “Make America Great Again.”

    John B Boddie (286277)

  6. Uh… guys, didn’t we hear the same sort of conventional wisdom that Trump wouldn’t win in 2016??

    I don’t think Trump could effectively address Sander’s baggage here, other than hitting his usual topics.

    I’ve relentlessly mocked Democrats with that stay puff marshmellow ghost buster meme “Choose your destructor”… I’d caution Republicans not to fall into that same trap.

    However, man if Bernie clearly wins NH and Biden keeps fading… I don’t see how Bernie doesn’t win the nomination.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  7. 6. Considering there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats, I’d love to see Bernie and Trump go at it just for the entertainment value. You could pay-per-view the debates and call it “The Battle of the one-percenters!!!”

    Gryph (08c844)

  8. Won’t vote for Trunp.
    Won’t vote for Bernie.
    Won’t vote for any GOP candidate in 2020

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  9. I checked, funny thing is I am still registered as a republican.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  10. 8. Ditto, Time. I’m through pretending that my vote matters when it clearly doesn’t. BUT…since so many people talk about elections in terms that remind me of sporting events, I’m going to milk this son of a **** for all the entertainment value it’s worth.

    Gryph (08c844)

  11. Iowa and New Hampshire are margin of error in the delegate count. Let’s wait for Super Tuesday.

    nk (1d9030)

  12. Comrade Gryph, if your vote does not matter, why then is that nomenklatura spend $5 billion to get it?

    nk (1d9030)

  13. Tulsi might outdo Klobuchar AND if his nosedive continues, BIDEN in NH tomorrow, perhaps above 10% which given her residency in the state since last fall is not surprising. This will put her in the VP driver seat, with her uncovential mob to bring. I say lets ask her who’d she rather be tied to the hip with.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  14. Time123 (ca85c9) — 2/10/2020 @ 8:21 am

    Exactly what Bernie would want you to do.

    And a Dem not voting for Bernie in the general is exactly what Trump would want.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  15. 12. Fair question. It’s worth it for the appearance of legitimacy. When I say it doesn’t matter, I mean it doesn’t matter in terms of policy. I’m no more free for exercising my franchise than I would be if the 545 suspended the 2020 elections tomorrow. The only difference in any practical sense would be the torch-and-pitchforks brigade.

    Gryph (08c844)

  16. 14. I think Bernie and Trump both believe that low voter turnout would benefit them, but that looks like a mutually exclusive proposition to me. If they both believe that, one of them must be wrong.

    I am of the considered opinion that a low turnout will help Trump overall more than it would help Bernie, but my basis for believing that doesn’t amount to much more than a hunch.

    Gryph (08c844)

  17. Munroe I missed your point.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  18. 17. Munroe’s point is that if you don’t vote, you’re playing into the hands of both odious politicians you don’t like.

    Gryph (08c844)

  19. You know one good reason to support President Donald Trump’s re-election over whatever awful person the Democrats put up?

    Bill Whittle published this on his YouTube channel 3 hours ago: “Pain Threshold: Pro-Choice Scientist Finds Fetal Pain Comes Much Earlier”

    Donald Trump is far more pro-life than Biden or any other Dem running for the nomination. By extension, Trump’s anti-hurting unborn children’ in the womb, causing them to die in terrible, preventable agony.

    Chew on that when you cast your vote.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  20. Donald Trump, more pro-life than [insert generic Democrat here]? Are you familiar with the concept of “damning with faint praise?”

    I know how Trump humpers operate. If abortions decrease during Trump’s first term, he’ll take credit and his knob polishers will be all too happy to point that out. If abortions don’t decrease, or god-forbid increase, we’ll get explanations for why Trump was great anyway and did all that he could and we’re stupid for expecting him to actually keep his promises.

    Trump is a con man. He’s a skeeze and a liar. I don’t think he’s that dumb; he knows which way the wind is blowing and what he has to do to get re-elected.

    Gryph (08c844)

  21. Donald Trump, more pro-life than [insert generic Democrat here]? Are you familiar with the concept of “damning with faint praise?”

    Amazing that you think a person can be “damned” (of all things) by being more pro-life than the very anti-life Democrats.

    I think you’re prioritizing your feelings, your hatred of Donald Trump, over the children’s feelings or their lives. That’s what I think.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  22. 21. Not at all. I think you enjoy polishing Trump’s knob and licking his boots. “Daming with faint praise” simply means that calling him more pro-life than the Democrats means very little. It matters far less to abortion numbers (or any other policy you choose to point out, really) that your orange Jesus be re-elected than you or Bill Whittle want to believe.

    For my part, I’m not going out and protesting Trump. I’m not attacking people wearing MAGA hats. I’m just not voting for him. Oh well. It’s a good thing I’m still free to make that decision.

    Gryph (08c844)

  23. Without getting into Trump related issues…

    Just look at the states in the Democrat Super Tuesday primary.

    From Ballotpedia:

    Fifteen jurisdictions and the Democrats Abroad are expected to hold a primary event on Super Tuesday.

    Alabama
    American Samoa
    Arkansas
    California
    Colorado
    Democrats Abroad
    Maine
    Massachusetts
    Minnesota
    North Carolina
    Oklahoma
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Utah
    Vermont
    Virginia

    With both California and Texas—the two most populous states in the United States—holding their primaries on Super Tuesday, more than one third of the U.S. population is expected to vote on March 3.

    We will see if anyone besides Bernie has a viable pathway to sufficient delegates for a first-ballot win. Even if Bernie is in the lead, others might try to hang in there to get enough delegates to knock it into a brokered convention where the superdelegates get all their votes in the smoke-filled back room. But that takes money to hang in there that long.

    Who’s got money to hang in there that long? Bloomberg, that’s who.

    Ingot9455 (985c4f)

  24. But you’re not addressing his actual record. You’re just minimizing it, without looking into it, so you can feel right about your choice against him—so you can rationalize it.

    Trump allayed some of these doubts by promising to nominate pro-life judges and picking a pro-life running mate, Mike Pence, who was then the governor of Indiana. Pro-lifers also took into account the fact that his principal opponent in the general election, Hillary Clinton, had long been an opponent of theirs. Debating her, Trump expressed horror about abortions late in pregnancy while Clinton suggested they should be legal. In the end, pro-lifers largely voted for Trump. Exit polls showed that voters who prioritized Supreme Court appointments — a rough proxy, in our politics, for abortion — broke strongly for him.

    Since becoming president, Trump has done nearly everything that the pro-life movement has asked of him. Early in his term, he issued an executive order that blocked federal funds for family planning abroad from going to groups that advocate or perform abortion. Later, he issued another one blocking domestic family-planning money from going to such groups, which cut off a funding stream for Planned Parenthood. Other executive orders have imposed restrictions on funding for fetal-tissue research and attempted to protect the rights of pro-lifers in the medical field.

    What wins Trump the most praise from pro-lifers is his judicial appointments.

    excerpted from “Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Presidency”
    By RAMESH PONNURU
    February 6, 2020 10:56 AM
    At National Review

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  25. #20

    Donald Trump, more pro-life than [insert generic Democrat here]? Are you familiar with the concept of “damning with faint praise?”

    I know how Trump humpers operate. If abortions decrease during Trump’s first term, he’ll take credit and his knob polishers will be all too happy to point that out. If abortions don’t decrease, or god-forbid increase, we’ll get explanations for why Trump was great anyway and did all that he could and we’re stupid for expecting him to actually keep his promises.

    Has he done anything that could be construed as pro-choice?

    The fact that he was the first POTUS to join the pro-Life DC march is not nothing.

    He actually has a record now…

    Trump is a con man. He’s a skeeze and a liar. I don’t think he’s that dumb; he knows which way the wind is blowing and what he has to do to get re-elected.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 8:39 am

    That may be true… or, put it in a different way. Trump’s a victim of his own success not really in his own making, in that he’s “pushed” to be more GOP/Conservative. For the most part, he now reflectively takes the opposition positions of Democrat’s policies.

    That’s not a bad thing if you’re a GOP/Conservative.

    One of my fears early in Trump administration would be that Trump would extend olive branches to Democrats and collaborate them in passing some Democrat policies, all in the name of Trump usual ‘let’s make a deal’ mantra. However, fortunately, Democrats lost their over loving minds about Trump and nuked the theoretical bi-partisan bridge.

    So, yeah I take a little umbrage to your idea that there isn’t much difference between the GOP and Democratic party. The only thing that’s similar to the two parties, is that both like to spend money that we don’t have. Outside of that, there’s a wide gulf between the two political parties.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  26. The best thing a president can do to advance a cause (whether that be pro-life, immigration, or anything else) is to nominate judges friendly to that cause. Anything else doesn’t amount to squat.

    That’s a sad commentary on our political system, stretching back decades, but it is what it is.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  27. Bloomberg should buy FoxNews.

    Dave (1bb933)

  28. On the other hand if Bernie loses the nomination a good chuck of his supporters will cry foul and may either stay home or vote third party. It’s hard to know how this plays out. By the fall there may be issues that factor into the election that nobody is considering now.

    If Bernie wins NH will any of the other candidates try hitting him with his history of sketchy positions that Patterico pointed out?

    Mattsky (55d339)

  29. Our frustrated host wrote:

    I’m not sure I could vote for Bernie over Donald Trump. I might have to sit that one out. But my vote doesn’t matter.

    Not voting at all will certainly make your vote not matter. But you could vote for whomever the Libertarian Party nominee happens to be — assuming it isn’t clown candidate Vermin Supreme — and your vote could be counted as a protest vote, and help the Libertarians with ballot access in the future.

    That’s how I voted in 2016, believing my vote didn’t matter because Pennsylvania hadn’t been carried by a Republican since 1988, and that Hillary Clinton would certainly carry the state and win the election. I believed the media were right, that Donald Trump had virtually zero chance in 2016. I’m glad to see that I was wrong.

    Now that I’m back in the Bluegrass State, my presidential vote won’t matter, either, because Mr Trump will carry Kentucky. But I will vote for him — and Senator McConnell as well — because while they are far from perfect, they are doing some of the right things.

    The Dana in Kentucky (bb405a)

  30. You know, Gryph, you have to do you and I’ll do me. To be completely sincere with you, I wouldn’t use the phrase “Trump humpers” in what should be a serious discussion about unborn children’s lives, their pain, and the pro-life movement in general.

    Yes, I do think you’re prioritizing your feelings, to wit your hatred of Trump and his many supporters, over unborn children. I am sure of it based on your behavior.

    You could at least give President Trump his well-deserved druthers here, and then say you’re voting against him anyway because of other reasons. But no. You’re just wanting to pretend he’s the same as other Democrats when it comes to protecting children and he’s not. He’s also launched a lot of federal crackdowns on child trafficking and child porn rings, but I repeat myself.

    He is, for all his faults, not nearly as bad of a man as you think he is, and in many ways is quite a good man. That’s why I support his re-election, despite having numerous problems with some of his policies.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  31. *Biden and the other Democrats

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  32. Given the current state of affairs in California, Bernie would win there, so our host can sit this one out knowing that he didn’t contribute to Trump’s re-election, so in that sense, his vote really wouldn’t matter.

    Trump can be an asshole – exactly what we need at this time…I’m not voting for a priest, pastor, or rabbi. I want a fighter, and as Evan Sayet opined, “He Fights”

    Horatio (c3ae4b)

  33. Hey, at least Bernie is consistent…he’s always been a communist

    Horatio (c3ae4b)

  34. Hey, at least Bernie is consistent…he’s always been a communist

    This much is true.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  35. Brilliant show. I was too young to really appreciate it when it came out.
    NeverTrump, NeverBernie.

    Paul Montagu (ae8832)

  36. One could almost say Bernie was “principled”…just like the NeverTrumpers and our host want in a candidate

    Horatio (c3ae4b)

  37. Bernie, Bernie, Bernie … big deal!

    Did Kim Jong Un ever send him a beautiful letter?

    nk (1d9030)

  38. I think Bernie Sanders was just following the “party line” He was never a Communist, but he followed the idea of “democratic centralism” which a number of break aways from the Communist Party did. But he’s been an independent for many years. Although you can still see echoes of this. This is no good, of course.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  39. …just like the NeverTrumpers and our host want in a candidate

    That is one confused puppy.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  40. It is an interesting thought that if Bloomberg pops into the race and becomes the only viable moderate to counter Bernie, we could be looking at three potential candidates for President, Bernie, Bloomberg and Trump, who are not actually members of any party (though they run under the banner of a party.) We would get that crazy wet dream come true of a “third party” with the nightmare of not actually busting up the two parties. The institutional inertia that exists in the two parties is pretty big and it is hard to break from the outside, so the independents are actually joining them instead.

    MAOA is right, though. Trump is not a conservative, and I doubt he is pro-life by ideology, but he IS governing as a conservative and that is reason enough to prefer him over candidates who will govern as progressives.

    Trump did not cause executive excess and he is not the only person who will work to extend it, so we should get over our crushed delusions that Reps are any more saintly than Dems. In that sense Glyph is right. There is not a dime’s worth of difference. I think the inertia is too strong and until things get much worse, and they likely will, we are not going to be able to stop the erosion of Federalism. The state will get stronger, and the power more consolidated. It will take a lot of anger to stop the process, and we have seen sings of it from both sides. Antifa, Tea Party, and now Trump. Yes, Trump is a reaction to the broken system. You might not like how it manifested, but he was nominated as a protest by the republican voters against the GOP failures, and now he is governing on issues that matter to middle America. He is the candidate who managed to move the ball. Bernie is an answer to the progressive dissatisfaction, and he he speaks to their issues that no moderate could. Unfortunately we have no federalist candidate who has the political savvy and the charisma to generate enthusiasm, so we wait and the water gets warmer.

    My hope is that Trump will prove that conventional wisdom about kowtowing to media and Dems and other institutions is not necessary any more to be successful, and politicians will discover that bold leadership will actually work. Of course that could mean we get the wrong bold leader and we elect Adolph Hitler in about 13 years.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  41. The same way Donald Trump has never met a murderous dictator he didn’t like,

    Right, because US Foreign policy is all about Feelings and making it clear we just don’t some people. You’re a meanie King Saud, you’re not invited to OUR parties.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  42. I’m rooting for Bernie because he’s an HONEST Leftist. Unlike the others who hide behind a smokescreen of Moderateness, but are actually far left. in fact, if you’ve been following the debates, there’s very little difference between Bernie, Biden, Warren, and Buttigig.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  43. Buttigig wants to legalize Cocaine. How’s that for “moderate”?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  44. Patterico might sit out a Bernie_Trump contest. But Kristol, Rubin, and Max Boot won’t. look for the “Conservative Case for Bernie sanders” coming to a “Conservative” website near you!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  45. i can just imagine David french writing something like this:

    “While Bernie is a socialist, he won’t destroy our Christian souls like Trump. Therefore…”

    rcocean (1a839e)

  46. rco (#45):

    David French actually wrote this:

    When election night ends this November, it’s entirely possible that the exuberant Republican joy of 2016 will have transformed into abject despair. The improbable presidency of Donald Trump may well have paved the road to the unthinkable presidency of Bernie Sanders. And we’ll have our hatred to blame.

    https://thedispatch.com/p/dont-believe-anyone-who-says-bernie

    Appalled (1a17de)

  47. Obama telling Russia he could work with them after the election
    Obama giving Iran billions
    Obama not facing issues with China, just taking their money
    Obama not facing issues with N. Korea
    Obama not facing issues with Maduro

    So, who never met a murderous dictator he didn’t like?

    LYNN HARGROVE (740caa)

  48. Also, remember the Dem push to get rid of the Electoral College because Hillary got more total votes.
    So yes your vote does count.

    LYNN HARGROVE (740caa)

  49. I think Bernie Sanders was just following the “party line” He was never a Communist, but he followed the idea of “democratic centralism” which a number of break aways from the Communist Party did. But he’s been an independent for many years. Although you can still see echoes of this. This is no good, of course.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4) — 2/10/2020 @ 9:54 am

    He’s always been a communist. From his never holding a job, to his honeymoon in the Soviet Union, to his continued support for communist dictatorships, to his desire to destroy the United States of America.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  50. What NJRob said.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  51. 46 Appalled (1a17de) — 2/10/2020 @ 10:17 am

    From the French article:
    Primary voters rule American politics, and the lesson many of them have learned from the last three presidential elections is clear—compromise loses. Devotion wins.

    I agree that compromise loses, but I think he is slightly off with “devotion wins”. I think what really wins in a confidence and vision. Bernie is confident and he has a vision which he projects very well. Trump does as well. It is not everything, for sure, but it makes up for a lot of deficiencies.

    There is also a clear tribalism at play here. Most Democrats will loyally vote D ticket, same with Republicans. There are a small contingent of both that will switch sides and there are the fence sitters. The battle is always for that mushy middle. First fire up your base so they don’t sit it out, and then appeal to the middle. In that sense ANYbody can win the presidential election, even the mayor of a small mid-western town. We don’t vote for competence, we vote for story. That is how Obama won, and that is how Buttigieg can win, heck a dog catcher can win because once he is on the ticket, the machine takes over and people vote for story over substance.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  52. “in 1983, Soviet Embassy First Secretary Vadim Kuznetsov congratulated Sanders in a letter for his reelection as mayor of Burlington. Kuznetsov, a leader of the Soviet’s spy outfit, had just attended a conference in Sanders’s city a few days earlier.”

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  53. And we’ll have our hatred to blame.

    Ah Yes. Both sides are wrong. The mating cry of the Never-Trumper. Although, even after reading the article its ambigious who “We” and “Our” is supposed to refer to. I guessed it all of us. But given French, it could be he’s talking about Republicans only.

    who knows?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  54. Darn that Trump – he gave us Bernie.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  55. French is right. Thanks immigration – which he and all the NR/Neo Cons/”Conservatives” support 110% – the USA is now Democrat majority nation. If they just turn out their voters and keep them together – they win. Personally, I think Bernie will scare off enough moderate D’s to lose the election but it will be a close call.

    But if Bernie wins, so what? Like I said, he’s just honest about what he is. The actual difference between him and Buttigig or Klobblob in terms of policy is minor. You’re going to get Open borders, high taxes, medicare for all, and extreme Left-wing judges, no matter who wins the D nomination.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  56. @54 This was obviously Putin’s plan all along. Can’t you see it?

    frosty (f27e97)

  57. NJRob (4d595c) — 2/10/2020 @ 10:24 am

    He’s always been a communist. From his never holding a job, to his honeymoon in the Soviet Union, to his continued support for communist dictatorships, to his desire to destroy the United States of America.

    Well he did have some jobs before he was elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont. I am not sure what that is supposed to mean. In any case, besides his political and activist jobs, he was even a carpenter and you could say a failed entrepreneur, an aide at a psychiatric hospital in New York, a teacher of preschoolers for Head Start in New York, and in Vermont researching property taxation for the Vermont Department of Taxes and registering people for food stamps for a nonprofit called the Bread and Law Task Force. He was on unemployment for a few months in 1971 and in subsequent Liberty Union campaigns (he left the party in 1977) he advocated for “the doing away with all time limitations for unemployment benefits.”

    He was a writer and a writer and the director of something called American People’s Historical Society (APHS), where he produced a 30-minute documentary about American labor leader Eugene V. Debs. It was a non profit but also sort of like his business.

    You can say he didn’t collect a steady paycheck till he became mayor. The foreign policy he endorsed at that time was that of Noam Chomsky. Divorced from the truth.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  58. Bernie sanders was a leader of Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) at his college and merged it into the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee before it really got bad. He was involved in some kid of “peace” group, and in sit ins and protests and attended the 1963 March on Washington. He joined the Young People’s Socialist League (the youth affiliate of the Socialist Party of America) while he was a student in Chicago. This was the party of Eugene V. Debs and Norman Thomas, Meyer London and Victor Berger. This party had lost many members to the Communist Party after the Bolshevik Revolution. This was in the early 1960s.

    It later changed its name in 1972 to Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA or SocDems0 in order to make it clear it was anti-Communist (Russian Communist anyway) and because it had stopped running candidates for president, and a top leader left it because he felt it was too anti-Communist.

    By 1971 Bernie Sanders was part of the Liberty Union Party. This was a left-wing, “anti-war” party that existed only in Vermont and he stayed in it until 1977.

    his trip to the Soviet Union in 1988 was – well he was a fellow traveler. In 1988!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-bernie-sanderss-1988-10-day-honeymoon-in-the-soviet-union/2019/05/02/db543e18-6a9c-11e9-a66d-a82d3f3d96d5_story.html

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  59. Transcript of the 8th Democratic debate Friday night February 7, 2020:

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/new-hampshire-democratic-debate-transcript

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  60. “ Right, because US Foreign policy is all about Feelings and making it clear we just don’t some people. ”

    “Countries with a powerful death penalty, with a fair but quick trial, they have very little if any drug problem. That includes China.”

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  61. 25. Yup. Proved my point for me. Defend Trump uber alles, Trump humpers.

    30. President Trump’s “well-deserved druthers” is that he is a con man. A liar. A skeeze. And the numbers are telling me that at least 51% of the American populace still believes that. It’s a good thing he doesn’t need all of them for re-election; he’d be in trouble if he did.

    Gryph (08c844)

  62. You’re a bad guy, Gryph.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  63. 62. I’d tell you where to stick your opinion of me, but this is a family blog.

    Gryph (08c844)

  64. 61 Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 11:58 am

    President Trump’s “well-deserved druthers” is that he is a con man. A liar. A skeeze.

    Granted. But he still seems to deliver on policy, and that matters. It would be one thing if he promised keeping your doctor and that your insurance costs would drop by $2,500. Then he would be a con man whose policies delivered, good and hard.

    Tell me, what policies would you think Trump won’t deliver on that you can expect from any other candidate, in 2016 or 2020?

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  65. 64. Also making my point! Trump humpers largely know and appreciate his skeeziness and lying as a political skill! And in the end, this is the best reason you people can come up with to vote for him?! Sure, he may be lukewarm on pro-life issues, but that’s a feature, not a bug! Bulls**t. I don’t accept that. I don’t have to accept that. He is not entitled to my votes, nor are his supporters entitled to my praise of him.

    Gryph (08c844)

  66. I’d tell you where to stick your opinion of me, but this is a family blog.

    Which is why you call those who are in the process of talking about Donald Trump’s pro-life recored with you “Trump humpers.”

    You can stick my opinion of you wherever pleases you; however, sadly that is the opinion I’ve gained of you.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  67. 66. I’m proud to say that Trump humpers think I’m a bad person. It means I’m doing something right.

    Gryph (08c844)

  68. 63. Oh, and to the knob polishers out there, sorry I left off my sarcasm tag.

    Gryph (08c844)

  69. Sure, he may be lukewarm on pro-life issues, but that’s a feature, not a bug!

    I made the point he is staunch on pro-life issues, and you’re dishonestly (intentionally so) misrepresenting it.

    But you’re not addressing his actual record. You’re just minimizing it, without looking into it, so you can feel right about your choice against him—so you can rationalize it.

    Trump allayed some of these doubts by promising to nominate pro-life judges and picking a pro-life running mate, Mike Pence, who was then the governor of Indiana. Pro-lifers also took into account the fact that his principal opponent in the general election, Hillary Clinton, had long been an opponent of theirs. Debating her, Trump expressed horror about abortions late in pregnancy while Clinton suggested they should be legal. In the end, pro-lifers largely voted for Trump. Exit polls showed that voters who prioritized Supreme Court appointments — a rough proxy, in our politics, for abortion — broke strongly for him.

    Since becoming president, Trump has done nearly everything that the pro-life movement has asked of him. Early in his term, he issued an executive order that blocked federal funds for family planning abroad from going to groups that advocate or perform abortion. Later, he issued another one blocking domestic family-planning money from going to such groups, which cut off a funding stream for Planned Parenthood. Other executive orders have imposed restrictions on funding for fetal-tissue research and attempted to protect the rights of pro-lifers in the medical field.

    What wins Trump the most praise from pro-lifers is his judicial appointments.

    excerpted from “Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Presidency”
    By RAMESH PONNURU
    February 6, 2020 10:56 AM
    At National Review

    As I said, you’re a bad guy.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  70. 65 Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 12:19 pm

    Also making my point! Trump humpers largely know and appreciate his skeeziness and lying as a political skill! And in the end, this is the best reason you people can come up with to vote for him?!

    Gryph you are a one-note poster. And it is a sour note. You hate Trump, we all get it. You make sure we do, every time. And if we say antyihng that is not out and out “we hate Trump too!” we are Trump humpers.

    Nothing in what I said even remotely implied that I appreciate his Skeeziness. But you are so blinded by hate you have lost all ability to discern.

    It appears you are the mirror image of what you accuse others. The best reason you can find to vote for anyone else is that they are not Trump. No reasoned evaluation of policy, and long term effect.

    Not a Dine’s worth of difference? You have one really expensive dime, there bud.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  71. Gabriel Schoenfeld, Romney advisor and newly-minted Democrat, scheming at the best way to bring down Trump while trying to talk the left out of going overboard on the hate for the USA.

    Better take another gander at your new party dood. They think America is the problem.

    History says his kind are usually first against the wall in past Bernie paradises.

    harkin (b64479)

  72. but this is a family blog.

    You must have a very weird family. Daddy, what’s a “knob polisher”?

    PTw (894877)

  73. but this is a family blog.

    Neat, sweet, petite…

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  74. 70. I don’t vote for anyone. It’s the system that’s broken. Believe me, if voting mattered, the priesthood of Babylon-on-Potomac would figure out a way to outlaw it. That so many voters are willing to not just tolerate, but embrace Trump says as much about the cultural rot our republic faces as anything.

    Gryph (08c844)

  75. 69. Judicial appointments. *SNORT* Those can be undone just as quickly when he leaves office. And leave office, he will. Either in 2021 or 2025.

    Gryph (08c844)

  76. Judicial appointments. *SNORT* Those can be undone just as quickly when he leaves office.

    No. No they can’t.

    Avail yourself of a civics class.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  77. Bill Kristol/JOnah Goldberg/David French – If only Hillary had been elected. Think of how much more “Conservative” things would be.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  78. I would think the CIA has an entire filing cabinet devoted to Bernie, if not for the fact that we had a Gus Hall supporter as CIA Director.

    Munroe (3b3fcc)

  79. Thanks immigration – which he and all the NR/Neo Cons/”Conservatives” support 110% – the USA is now Democrat majority nation.

    Jonah Goldberg was advocating for a border wall when Donald Trump was still supporting the campaigns of Dems AND a Dreamers-type bill.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  80. I think, this being 2020, the odds are way, way better that Trump will build a big, beautiful wall than that Joe Biden will.

    However, yes, I’m disappointed in Trump’s immigration reform progress, although the evil attacks he’s constantly been under, and endless immigration judicial injunctions, have slowed him down.

    It’s almost like judicial appointments matter or something. I know someone above was saying something about that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  81. 74 Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 12:39 pm

    I don’t vote for anyone.

    How’s that working for you?

    It’s the system that’s broken.

    True. People have learned that they can vote themselves largess from the treasury, and politicians have found they can win elections by granting access to the treasury and getting kickbacks for themselves. Wealth and power are inherent in any system. You can’t fight nature, you can only work to mitigate its effects. Balance the power as best you can to that the wolves are watching the hyenas and the hyenas are watching the wolves and us chickens have some chance. And you can’t eliminate either. The vacuum that would exist if we removed everyone in power would be so strong as to create brand new predators who would step into the breach. The siren call of wealth corrupts easily. That is why the founders created balance in the system.

    That so many voters are willing to not just tolerate, but embrace Trump says as much about the cultural rot our republic faces as anything.

    No argument from me except for the part where you forget that the other side is also corrupt and there is a logical reason to support the wolves when the hyenas get too strong, and the Hyenas when the wolves are too numerous.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  82. I liked it when it was just the Jets and the Sharks, only in America…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  83. Razor
    @hale_razor

    That feeling when you leave the GOP over your so-called conservative principles for the party about to nominate a socialist
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  84. Donald Trump touts his budget:

    “We’re doing a lot of things that are very good, including waste and fraud.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  85. That feeling when you leave the GOP over your conservative principles because you just can’t stand the stink of corruption blowing off EITHER pig pen.

    “Free at last, free at last…”

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  86. “We’re doing a lot of things that are very good, including waste and fraud.”

    Truer words…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  87. 76. Oh yes, they can. The judicial appointments Trump makes may be lifetime appointments, but Trump’s successor will have the opportunity of appointing most likely just as many judges when retirements or resignations come up. Treating Trump’s judicial tenor as a permanent fix for what ails America is pure wishcasting.

    Gryph (08c844)

  88. There is no principled reason for a “conservative” to vote for any Democrat over Donald Trump. There are emotional reasons, cultural reasons, ethical reasons, of course, but since there are no centrist Democrats none of these reasons can be reconciled with conservatism. They are ALL socialists. Some are just harder-core than the others.

    Don’t take my word for it, here’s the WaPo editorial board trying to convince the Left that people like Biden are still socialists:

    The candidates are fighting an ideological war between “left” and “center.” This narrative is false, and it is hardly benign. It minimizes the bold policy ambitions of those in the mislabeled “centrist” lane and falsely characterizes those on the left flank as braver or more committed to reform….

    But the fact that Mr. Sanders’s and Ms. Warren’s positioning puts them decidedly to the left of others in the race does not make their competitors “centrist.” All, in fact, have put forward ambitious, progressive platforms for reducing inequality and promoting access to health and education….

    Former vice president Joe Biden may not favor the precise Green New Deal that some activists desire, but he wants to spend a whopping $1.7 trillion to enable the country to eliminate net carbon emissions by 2050, a massive undertaking…

    Then there are the policy moves that practically all Democrats agree on: giving legal safe harbor to the young immigrants known as “dreamers”; reviving and expanding President Barack Obama’s climate regulations; reengaging with Iran; raising the minimum wage; keeping abortion legal; cracking down on guns.

    In fact, every major Democratic candidate is running on an agenda to the left of Mr. Obama’s.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-pete-buttigieg-and-joe-biden-are-not-centrists/2020/02/07/a75c9afc-49d9-11ea-b4d9-29cc419287eb_story.html

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  89. Jonah Goldberg was advocating for a border wall when Donald Trump was still supporting the campaigns of Dems AND a Dreamers-type bill.

    Baloney. Goldberg never talks about immigration unless he has too, and then he gives a on “one hand, but on the other hand” opinion. He’s NEVER been outraged or gotten worked up about Amnesty or Open borders and in his last books states that “immigration is always a good thing, although I don’t have any evidence to back that up”. That he at some point tepidly supported a border wall, doesn’t shock me, but then so did John McCain and Mitt Romney.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  90. Gryph, the Deemocrats can ALSO dilute the judiciary by increasing the number of positions.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  91. Goldberg’s latest dumb opinion is that we need to “revitalize” our major parties by getting rid of primaries and caucuses. Really.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  92. And yet, the Democrats are in a bind. Voters overthrew the old order when they elected Trump, and they did so thinking that the man was a worse ogre than he’s turned out. Running a centrist campaign might thrill #neverTrump and New Deal Democrats, but the electorate has moved on.

    All the Democrats can do against Trump is move hard left. It won’t work, but the center is no better.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  93. Goldberg’s latest dumb opinion is that we need to “revitalize” our major parties

    Then we can revitalize baseball by getting rid of the regular season!

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  94. #87

    76. Oh yes, they can. The judicial appointments Trump makes may be lifetime appointments, but Trump’s successor will have the opportunity of appointing most likely just as many judges when retirements or resignations come up. Treating Trump’s judicial tenor as a permanent fix for what ails America is pure wishcasting.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 2:08 pm

    #90

    Gryph, the Deemocrats can ALSO dilute the judiciary by increasing the number of positions.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/10/2020 @ 2:13 pm

    All the more reasons to vote GOP to keep these radical Democrats from the levers of power.

    whembly (51f28e)

  95. rcocean, you are full of…baloney.

    And you’re just flat-footed…um…being untruthful.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  96. @93 LOL!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  97. The point is that other Americans scared by Bernie’s record would likely vote for Trump.

    1) you misspelled “appalled”
    2) It’s not so much Bernie appointing Angela Davis tot he Supreme Court that worries me, it’s the vact that if he were to win, the Dems would have a good majority in both houses, too.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  98. Sanders is as unelectable as Clinton, so of course Trump wants him to be the nominee. Biden is fading; he’s never won a single primary or caucus in his two previous runs for president, and he hasn’t won one in this race yet. Which make me wonder what kind of threat Trump thought he might pose to him.

    Klobuchar is the real threat. Behind her are Buttigieg, Bloomberg and Steyer. She is excelling in the debates and has electability, a lot better than Warren, while they have money. This will all sort itself out in a few months.

    I agree with Time123, I won’t be voting for any Republicans this year. That doesn’t mean I’ll vote for a Democrat. I’ll be doing my usual Libertarian thing, casting a protest vote. I don’t sit out elections. I always vote, because I want my vote to be counted. If neither of the two major parties nominates a candidate I can support, I won’t vote for either. And if the Libertarian candidate is unacceptable, I’ll ask for a paper ballot and write myself in for president. I’ve done that before. Yeah, I got only one vote and lost by millions, but still I made a statement, and it was counted.

    So, Patterico, if you want to sit out the election, go ahead. That is your choice as a free American. But I would advise against it. Vote, always vote, participate in every election. If you don’t like the R or the D, vote the L, or write yourself in. At least then your vote will be counted. But do not not participate. Too many have given their lives for your right to vote in free elections.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  99. Goldberg’s latest dumb opinion is that we need to “revitalize” our major parties by getting rid of primaries and caucuses.

    Why don’t you have the integrity to give his whole idea?

    If our current system can only give us Duh Donald and Hellary, I’m for burning it down…root and branch.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  100. Gryph, the Deemocrats can ALSO dilute the judiciary by increasing the number of positions.

    Or the Gingrich plan: Repeal the current appellate structure — putting all the judges out of a job — and create a new one, then fill the new seats with your guys.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  101. Here’s a Kristol tweet that’s getting applause from the Left:

    He’s not “Lt. Col.” Vindman. He’s Lt. Col. Vindman. It’s his real rank in a real military, in which he earlier saw combat and was wounded. It’s hard for you to grasp, @realDonaldTrump, but he’s not some guy dressed up as a soldier for reality TV or as entertainment at Mar-a-Lago.

    Can someone explain Bill’s Point?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  102. Or the Gingrich plan: Repeal the current appellate structure

    Newtie used to have a working brain. Not anymore…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  103. If our current system can only give us Duh Donald and Hellary, I’m for burning it down…root and branch.

    Do you view Populism as an attack on democracy?

    Our system gave us Donald Trump because he burnt down the GOP primary system. His support came from people who were “sick and tired and would not take it anymore.” They got out their torches and pitchforks and ran the other eleventy candidates out on a rail.

    Trump’s victory was an AFFIRMATION of Democracy and a warning to those who would control it. Yes, he’s a very blunt instrument, but that’s what happens when the Establishment loses the trust of the people — they find the closest club available.

    In the EU that isn’t possible — access to power is carefully moderated. And the main reason the UK left.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  104. Newtie used to have a working brain. Not anymore…

    Newt was always a bomb-thrower. And a really smart one, too. That he ended up supporting Trump was, I think, more the same kind of desperation that many Americans felt in 2016.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  105. Do you view Populism as an attack on democracy?

    I regard democracy as an attack on a republic (like the Founders). I regard Trump as an authoritarian Progressive with a few rightist tendencies. Which is what he IS.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  106. That he ended up supporting Trump was, I think, more the same kind of desperation that many Americans felt in 2016.

    LOL!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  107. “ Can someone explain Bill’s Point?”

    His point is that cadet bone spurs is the last person who should be disparaging someone’s military service.

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  108. Newt was also a serial philanderer so game recognize game.

    Davethulhu (94520c)

  109. Bloomberg should buy FoxNews.

    But then legions of reporters from all over the globe would rise up, complaining about the new owner’s intentions to interfere with the newsroom. Right?

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  110. I regard democracy as an attack on a republic (like the Founders).

    Way to avoid the subject while twisting my words. This tells me that you still haven’t GOT what happened in 2016.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  111. …and Newtie is SUCH an ‘outsider’ and not-member of the ‘elite’.

    (Just like the thug from New York City in the spray tan.)

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  112. This tells me that you still haven’t GOT what happened in 2016.

    And, with any luck, the hand sanitizer will hold out…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  113. Newt was NOT Reluc/Pensive-Trump, he was all-in from late 2015 on. You can argue he had an early 60s Wallace-like conversion, Newt had been the immigration squish of 2012s primaries (citizenship status determined by local boards, IIRC) and was determined not to get sidelined in the same way for 16.

    urbanleftbehind (80d46e)

  114. I regard Trump as an authoritarian Progressive with a few rightist tendencies.

    Then you are way more confused than I thought.

    To be a “Progressive” one would be expected to send more, and more expansive, social(-ist) programs to Congress. I can’t think of one, maybe there is one, but his current budget savages most of the existing ones, so I gotta think your case is weak.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  115. #113:

    Many Trump voters were reluctant supporters, but ANY THING was better than the corruption of the same-old, kick-the-can-down-the-road bipartisan mess.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  116. and was determined not to get sidelined in the same way for 16.

    This sounds like desperation to me. And it didn’t work.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  117. I gotta think your case is weak.

    Trump LOVES him some BIG GOVERNMENT. He LOVES telling you what you can do with your property. He is a central planning fan-boi.

    And I don’t care what you think.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  118. The most Trump is of anything is Rich Jerkoff Degenerate Pervert. His lesser attributes are New York Sewer Scum, Yammering Nancy Boy, and Backstabbing Yellowbelly.

    nk (1d9030)

  119. Geez. He uses eminent domain once and those are the glasses you see through? Good to know.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  120. The most Trump is of anything is Rich Jerkoff Degenerate Pervert. His lesser attributes are New York Sewer Scum, Yammering Nancy Boy, and Backstabbing Yellowbelly.

    The Nancy Boy thing is probably libel.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  121. 119. Once? Oh no. At least twice. Vera Coking AND Michael Forbes, and those were just the cases that made it through Trump’s media filters. He had an enormous, much-deserved reputation as a rent seeker-supreme in his Manhattan days. Go ahead, Trump humpers. Tell me again why that makes him a good president.

    Gryph (08c844)

  122. 115. Bipartisan corruption, huh? So is that a ham-handed admission that there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the parties? If Donald J. Trump is the best thing since sliced bread, he still only gets eight years. Then what?!

    Gryph (08c844)

  123. He uses eminent domain once and…

    You REALLY need to catch up. Duh Donald and Bernie read from the same hymnal WRT industrial policy (which IS Progressivism). Like any Progressive, that thinks he knows how you should use YOUR property and he’ll force you to toe his line.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  124. #122

    115. Bipartisan corruption, huh? So is that a ham-handed admission that there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the parties? If Donald J. Trump is the best thing since sliced bread, he still only gets eight years. Then what?!

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 3:08 pm

    Then 8 more years of President Haley…god willing.

    whembly (51f28e)

  125. The Nancy Boy thing is probably libel.

    Heh!

    nk (1d9030)

  126. You are praising Demented Donna with faint damns, Ragspierre. His only ideology is in his wallet, his belly, and his gonads. He is a bacterium who learned about money.

    nk (1d9030)

  127. 124. Good luck with that. That’s making a really out-there assumption before Trump has even won his second term.

    Gryph (08c844)

  128. Time123 (ca85c9) — 2/10/2020 @ 8:21 am

    On a Bernie v. Trump matchup, there are at least a couple of things you can be confident of.

    Bernie is a pure ideologue. He doesn’t care one iota about what his base or any voter thinks because it’s assumed they agreed to the ideology by voting for him. He hasn’t kept it a secret. Bernie would happily burn everything down confident that it was the best of all possible outcomes.

    Trump’s the opposite of an ideologue. He has no real ideology beyond himself. He’s obviously criticized for this but it’s what made him a safer bet than HRC who, while not an ideologue, had other issues. Of course, he’ll feel less constrained in a second term but he’s got no real goal other than whatever feeds his ego. It’s a self-limiting system. Trump can’t burn everything down because there’d be no one left to remember him.

    frosty (f27e97)

  129. #NeverTrump should have their own primaries and their own convention.

    I’m sure they’d all agree on the same guy — at least for a week or two.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  130. @127

    124. Good luck with that. That’s making a really out-there assumption before Trump has even won his second term.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 3:31 pm

    Well…if the argument that POTUS gets to nomination their preferred judges, then keep the Whitehouse and the Senate (at least) in the hands of the GOP party ought to be high on the priority list.

    Then, once Trump’s term is over, the next man (women) is up and it’s obvious to anyone paying attention that Nikki Haley is biding her time for 2024.

    whembly (51f28e)

  131. 121 Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 3:06 pm

    Go ahead, Trump humpers. Tell me again why that makes him a good president.

    117 Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/10/2020 @ 3:01 pm

    Trump LOVES him some BIG GOVERNMENT. He LOVES telling you what you can do with your property. He is a central planning fan-boi.

    Looks like people are having trouble evaluating Trump’s actual policies rather than Trumps previous work as a Real Estate mogul. I am not defending Trump’s actions in any way. I do not like hi,, never liked him and do not think he is any paragon of virtue. I can only judge his presidency by his policies and they are not what you are claiming. When challenged to explain why Trump is a bad president, you seem to fall back “in the past Trump did X or Trump did Y or trump was Z.” Those things make Trump a bad person, and should have prevented him from getting traction for the presidency which is why I voted against him in the primaries. But now that he is president, I can judge him on his policies.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  132. 130. So that’s it, huh? That’s your recipe for success? Re-elect Trump, have a one-party Congress (which I might add, has worked SOOOOO well in the past under Republican presidents), and then hope that the entire federal government stays under Republican control for the foreseeable future. What could possibly go wrong?

    SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  133. The writer says Trump never met a murderous dictator he didn’t like, right after describing Trump’s aggression towards the Iranian government, – a murderous dictatorship. Great irony-free writing!

    lazlo toth (cbb623)

  134. I can only judge his presidency by his policies and they are not what you are claiming.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. WTF do you call tariffs imposed by diktat based on lies OTHER than central planning industrial policy?

    This IS BIG GOVERNMENT Progressive crap. Many Americans are so ill-educated they have no idea what they are seeing when it’s right before their noses.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  135. So… I feel like this is germane to this discussion. Here’s a list of accomplishments from the whitehouse.gov website.

    Now… how many of these would’ve happened under a Hillary Clinton administration. Or, think about what it would look like under a Bernie Sanders administration. A couple? Maybe???

    Almost 4 million jobs created since election.

    More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.

    We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since my election.

    Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.

    Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.

    New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.

    Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.

    African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

    Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.

    Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

    Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.

    Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.

    Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.

    Under my Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.

    Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.

    The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.

    95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.

    Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.

    Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.

    As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.

    Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.

    Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.

    Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.

    Record number of regulations eliminated.

    Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.

    Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.

    My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.

    Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.

    We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.

    Signed Right-To-Try legislation.

    Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.

    We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.

    Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.

    Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.

    United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.

    Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.

    Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.

    Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.

    NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.

    Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.

    Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.

    Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.

    Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.

    Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.

    Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.

    Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.

    Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.

    Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.

    Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.

    Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.

    Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.

    Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.

    We have begun BUILDING THE WALL. Republicans want STRONG BORDERS and NO CRIME. Democrats want OPEN BORDERS which equals MASSIVE CRIME.

    These are not insignificant policy stuff here…

    I’m not voting for someone who should be adulated as some paragon of a leader. Most politicians are not deserving of that.

    However, Trump now has a record he can stand on, and I’ll take all of these achievements…along with his unfiltered mouth/tweet as opposed to any of the current Democratic candidate’s policies.

    whembly (51f28e)

  136. #132

    130. So that’s it, huh? That’s your recipe for success? Re-elect Trump, have a one-party Congress (which I might add, has worked SOOOOO well in the past under Republican presidents), and then hope that the entire federal government stays under Republican control for the foreseeable future. What could possibly go wrong?

    SMDH

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 4:15 pm

    Much better than any of the Democratic yahoos we have now, that’s for sure.

    whembly (51f28e)

  137. 136. Again, with the talk like there’s any real difference. There isn’t. And I’m not going to cast my vote to the wind as if there is.

    Gryph (08c844)

  138. 135. From WhiteHouse.gov, the official White House website. Of course Trump is a great president! Just ask him! He’ll tell you…

    Gryph (08c844)

  139. @134

    I can only judge his presidency by his policies and they are not what you are claiming.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. WTF do you call tariffs imposed by diktat based on lies OTHER than central planning industrial policy?

    This IS BIG GOVERNMENT Progressive crap. Many Americans are so ill-educated they have no idea what they are seeing when it’s right before their noses.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/10/2020 @ 4:22 pm

    See… this is a topic all of use could explore without flinging cavalier talking points.

    In a vacuum, yes Tariffs is a tax on US consumers. That assumes that behaviors doesn’t change the targeted country.

    However, if the companies in the targeted county changes their behaviors, or even move to a different country (hopefully the US!), then the tariff did it’s job.

    Whether that’s good short-term or long-term remains to be seen. Short-term, I’m sure, is high cost to US consumers as the targetted country/companies passes the cost of doing business back to the consumer.

    Now long-term:
    1) better trade agreement with that target country (ie, China)
    2) used as crudgel against target country in retaliatory manner (ie, France on propose tax on US goods)
    3) companies diversifies/moves to different countries to escape targeted tariffs.

    I still don’t know if Trump’s tariff’s plan would be a net gain long-term, but if we are ever going to employ this power, now is the time to do this so that our current strong economy can weather the storm.

    whembly (51f28e)

  140. #138

    135. From WhiteHouse.gov, the official White House website. Of course Trump is a great president! Just ask him! He’ll tell you…

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 4:35 pm

    Can you do me a favor and look at the list? Those are actual deliverables. (although I still think it’s debatable that Presidents has that much influence on the economy)

    I’m not trying to convince you to vote for Trump. I’m asking you to take a rational look at this list and then think about a Democratic President.

    How close would that list be hypothetically?

    whembly (51f28e)

  141. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/10/2020 @ 4:22 pm

    I wouldn’t call them by diktat when they’re done via existing regulations, all over 40 years old, passed by Congress that gives the WH a lot discretion?

    frosty (85a156)

  142. Sanders is officially the front runner.

    New Quinnipiac national poll:

    Sanders leads 25 %

    Biden 17%
    Bloomberg 15%

    All Candidates beat Trump in hypothetical matchup.

    Bloomberg tops Trump 51 – 42 percent
    Sanders defeats Trump 51 – 43 percent
    Biden beats Trump 50 – 43 percent
    Klobuchar defeats Trump 49 – 43 percent
    Warren wins narrowly over Trump 48 – 44 percent
    Buttigieg is also slightly ahead of Trump 47 – 43 percent

    Of course that could change quickly. Biden, ‘Buttagieg and Klobuchar are crowding each others lanes right now.

    JRH (52aed3)

  143. 142. After 2016, I’m not counting Orange Jesus out of the running. Anything is possible, though few things are probable.

    Gryph (08c844)

  144. 140. Oh absolutely. They are deliverables. And I skimmed it. But every Democratic president in my lifetime has had a similar list of “accomplishments.” Trump’s list doesn’t mean that he’s better than any Democratic contender. It just means he knows what he has to do to get re-elected. And make no mistake, regardless of my personal feelings towards Donald J. Trump, I think he stands a very good chance of being re-elected. If he is, he will manage it without my vote.

    Gryph (08c844)

  145. I will be so depressed if the democrats fail to make it to Milwaukee.

    mg (8cbc69)

  146. 119. Once? Oh no. At least twice.
    OK, twice. Who the F cares? It’s the law that lets him do it and not a law he passed. People use laws they don’t necessarily support all the time. I hate Obamacare, but I bought an Obamacare policy. Does that make me a liberal, or just someone who works with the laws as they are?

    Again, a progressive is someone who PUSHES progressive ideas, and Donald Trump for all his faults does not do that. Sure, he’s not a rock-ribbed “conservative” (whatever that is), but he’s goddam Barry Goldwater compared to the Democrat’s candidates.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  147. I still don’t know if Trump’s tariff’s plan would be a net gain long-term, but if we are ever going to employ this power, now is the time to do this so that our current strong economy can weather the storm.

    OR… “It doesn’t bother me that the authoritian Trump is imposing top-down industrial policy based on flat-footed lies about national security.”

    Wow

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  148. I said the other day that some people hate Trump so much, that if he offered a cure for cancer, and they had cancer, they would tell him to piss off.

    These people seem out in force today because I haven’t seen so much chronic perspective loss in quite some time.

    Kevin M (8ae2cb)

  149. @147

    I still don’t know if Trump’s tariff’s plan would be a net gain long-term, but if we are ever going to employ this power, now is the time to do this so that our current strong economy can weather the storm.

    OR… “It doesn’t bother me that the authoritian Trump is imposing top-down industrial policy based on flat-footed lies about national security.”

    Wow

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 2/10/2020 @ 4:58 pm

    wat?

    whembly (c30c83)

  150. I wouldn’t call them by diktat when they’re done via existing regulations, all over 40 years old, passed by Congress that gives the WH a lot discretion?

    I would, especially given he could have gone to Conress, didn’t, and lied about the strategic necessity of imposing what are hidden taxes on the American people AND domestic job killers.

    Nobody gave Trump THAT discretion.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  151. Again, a progressive is someone who PUSHES progressive ideas, and Donald Trump for all his faults does not do that.

    You are simply clueless as to that a Progressive is. Jeepers.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  152. 146. The law does not allow private companies to take for eminent domain. it never has. Not even in New York City.

    Gryph (08c844)

  153. @150 Why does he need to go to congress to get authorization for something congress has already authorized. The Trade Act of 1974 does exactly that.

    frosty (85a156)

  154. 152 Kelo has made it so post-2005:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

    For the record, I despise this ruling.

    whembly (c30c83)

  155. 154. That’s not the law. That’s 9 black robes telling us what the law is in contravention of the constitution. Nowhere does the constitution give them the power to do that; they took it for themselves.

    Gryph (08c844)

  156. AND…Donald Trump was abusing eminent domain long before the Kelo ruling.

    Gryph (08c844)

  157. 154.

    That’s not the law. That’s 9 black robes telling us what the law is in contravention of the constitution. Nowhere does the constitution give them the power to do that; they took it for themselves.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 5:19 pm

    It clearly *is* the law and won’t change unless Congress passes a statutory (and signed) prohibition of such scenarios. (ie, taking property for express purpose of increasing tax base).

    AND…Donald Trump was abusing eminent domain long before the Kelo ruling.

    Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 5:20 pm

    True, but eminent domain laws are murky at best. There’s a whole cottage industry amongst lawyers dealing with eminent domain. Hence why it went all the way to SCOTUS to get a ruling as it was a split-appellate case.

    whembly (c30c83)

  158. 157. The constitution already forbids taking of private land for public purposes! It’s right there in the goddam constitution! Oy!

    Eminent domain laws are murky PRECISELY BECAUSE they benefit real estate shysters like Trump! What is not murky is that:

    A) Land can not be taken without being paid for,

    B) Said payment must be “just.”

    Too damn bad politicians and real estate shysters like Trump get to decide what is “just.” That is what is murky. The rest is plain as the nose on your face. And Trump’s consistent flouting of such laws is precisely the reason I believe he is fundamentally unfit for office.

    Gryph (08c844)

  159. Y’all’s favorite, David French:

    “Quinnipiac has every Dem. beating Trump. There’s so much Trump confidence and Dem. gloom on this website that I wonder if the wrong “Trump is garbage” 2016 theory has been replaced by a wrong “Trump is magic” 2020 theory. Everything feels way too close for confidence or gloom.”

    JRH (52aed3)

  160. @135 It’s a big list, there. Unfortunately, much of it isn’t true or is a result of a continuation of the Obama economy (in as much as a president can be responsible for the economy.) For example, the current economic growth rate is 2.1 percent and has been for the last several quarters. It’s never gotten above 4% during the Trump administration.

    Also, Voc-ed isn’t employers training people. Sigh.
    (Voc-ed is a good idea, and beneficial for everyone, but the Trump admin isn’t funding it. Education of every kind is generally funded through the states.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  161. 144 Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 4:53 pm

    Oh absolutely. They are deliverables. And I skimmed it. But every Democratic president in my lifetime has had a similar list of “accomplishments.”

    Gryph has just confessed that he does not actually hold conservative values.

    Trump’s list doesn’t mean that he’s better than any Democratic contender. It just means he knows what he has to do to get re-elected.

    In my cynicism I believe that to be true of just about any candidate. We just had a discussion about Romney. He has proven the case. I think a lot of ambitious politicians choose to be Democrats because 1. it is easy to get elected in certain places as a Dem and 2. there is less scrutiny for your peccadillos. In Red districts I am sure #1 is true as well, not so much #2.

    So what? I vote for their record and if Trump is conning me the whole way by pretending to be conservative and doing conservative government while secretly holding liberal views, then I will happily be duped. Now if he instead said Marriage was between a man and a woman but governs as if he wants to advance the LGBT agenda then I will label him a progressive and not a conservative because that is how he governs. It is amazing how people cannot seem to understand that we vote for someone to enact policies and should judge them on that basis not on what we think they really want or say they want. Though in the case of an unknown, all we CAN judge them on is what they say and what they have advocated before.

    In the case of the Dems, every single one of them advocates serious socialistic policies. It would be foolish of me to think they won’t. Trump advocated conservative policies and puts forth conservative policies. Seems a no-brainer to me.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  162. Why does he need to go to congress to get authorization for something congress has already authorized. The Trade Act of 1974 does exactly that.

    No it doesn’t, and it never DID.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  163. 155 Gryph (08c844) — 2/10/2020 @ 5:19 pm

    That’s 9 black robes telling us what the law is in contravention of the constitution.

    Actually it was 5. And do you know which 5? It wasn’t the kinds of judges taht Trump and other conservatives have been putting on the court.

    Not a dime’s difference, indeed.

    Seriously, if you want the constitution followed, work like the dickens to put people in office who will nominate judges who will rule based on the constitution. I really cannot fathom your attitude on advocating for more RBGs on the SCOTUS.

    Wa St Blogger (5fcf49)

  164. Now if he instead said Marriage was between a man and a woman but governs as if he wants to advance the LGBT agenda then I will label him a progressive and not a conservative because that is how he governs.

    Funny you should mention that. He does govern as if he wants to advance the LGBT agenda, and he has never said marriage was between a man and a woman. In fact, Gorsuch said straight out at his confirmation that same-sex marriage is here to stay (dunno if Kavanaugh was even axed), and he very recently appointed an openly gay judge to the Ninth Circus.

    nk (1d9030)

  165. @163 I get the feeling that if we’re respectful and ask the right questions Gryph might explain how we can claim our rights as sovereign citizens.

    frosty (f27e97)

  166. @164 He’s also never mentioned that he doesn’t believe in life on other planets. He’s obviously governing in a way to advance the reptilian agenda

    frosty (f27e97)

  167. 43. rcocean (1a839e) — 2/10/2020 @ 10:08 am

    Buttigig wants to legalize Cocaine. How’s that for “moderate”?

    He said decriminalize, which does not affect people in the business of selling large quantities of it.

    In the debate he said incarceration should not be a response – then went on to attack companies that sold things that were lawful and said they sued them in South Bend. Said he wants accountability for those who suppressed evidence of about the addictiveness of some of these substances. Said addiction should be regarded as a medical issue not a moral failure (this is really an old fashioned argument. With some things the problem is more than mere addiction)

    Said he is in favor of medication assisted treatment (not medication alone?) Said people revived with Narcan need some place to go. But we’ve got a shortage of mental health and addiction providers quacks.

    Andrew Yang wants to tax companies that profited off opioids to pay for three days of mandatory treatment for anyone revived with Narcan. Money cannot be an obstacle. The government allowed this to happen. (well they made things worse by cracking down on legal, safe, opioids) Said they need assurance they will not be sent to jail. What about for stealing?

    Amy Klobuchar talked about drug courts but said this does not apply to big time dealers.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  168. Is lying about what the other person said the only way you can argue when it comes to Trump, frosty?

    nk (1d9030)

  169. Sammy, it’s still a long way before The Pivot. They’re still trying to gather support and momentum from the crazy Left.

    nk (1d9030)

  170. 78. Munroe (3b3fcc) — 2/10/2020 @ 12:51 pm

    I would think the CIA has an entire filing cabinet devoted to Bernie,

    The CIA doesn’t keep dossiers on American citizens, and never did except in rare circumstances, and they probably threw out their filing cabinets a long time ago.

    They keep information on computers, where it can be stolen en masse if anybody finds a way.

    It was the FBI that used to collect information on American citizens, which is never pulled together util someone asks for his file with a Freedom of Information Act Request. There’s probably nothing there after the early 1970s.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  171. @168 Of course not.

    frosty (f27e97)

  172. 169. nk (1d9030) — 2/10/2020 @ 6:44 pm

    it’s still a long way before The Pivot. They’re still trying to gather support and momentum from the crazy Left.

    But not on this issue, because drug legalization isn’t a big thing with the crazy left. I took what I sad fro the last debate.

    Pete Bttigieg did say this:

    Well, the reality is, on my watch, drug arrests in South Bend were lower than the national average, and specifically to marijuana, lower than in Indiana. But there is no question that systemic racism has penetrated to every level of our system, and my city was not immune. I took a lot of heat for discussing systemic racism with my own police department, but we’ve got to confront the fact that there is no escaping how this is part of all of our policies.

    and then pivoted for one sentence to opiods. Then it continued:

    But there were a lot of people, including a lot of African American activists in my community who have made the very good point, it’s great that everybody’s so enlightened about drug policy now when it comes to opioids, but where were you when it came to marijuana, where were you when it came to the crack epidemic in the 1990s? That is one of the reasons why I am calling for us as a country to take up those reforms that end incarceration as a response to possession and make sure that we legalize marijuana and when we do it, do it retroactively with expungements to correct the harm done in so many cases of incarceration, disproportionately of black and brown Americans where the incarceration did far more harm than the offense it was intended to deal with.
    Linsey Davis: (29:00)
    Right, let me go back to the original question though. How do you explain the increase in black arrests in South Bend under your leadership for marijuana possession?
    Pete Buttigieg: (29:05)
    And again, the overall rate was lower than the national rate.
    Linsey Davis: (29:09)
    No, there was an increase. The year before you were in office, it was lower. Once you became in office in 2012, that number went up. In 2018, the last number year that we have record for, that number was still up.
    Pete Buttigieg: (29:22)
    And one of the strategies that our community adopted was to target, when there were cases where there was gun violence and gang violence, which was slaughtering so many in our community, burying teenagers, disproportionately black teenagers, we adopted a strategy that said that drug enforcement would be targeted in cases where there was a connection to the most violent group or gang connected to a murder.
    Pete Buttigieg: (29:49)
    These things are all connected, but that’s the point. So are all of the things that need to change in order for us to prevent violence and remove the effects of systemic racism, not just from criminal justice, but from our economy, from health, from housing, and from our democracy itself.
    Linsey Davis: (30:05)
    Senator Warren, is that a substantial answer from Mayor Buttigieg?
    Elizabeth Warren: (30:08)
    No. You have to own up to the fact, and it’s important to own up to the facts about how race has totally permeated our criminal justice system. For the exact same crimes, study after study now shows that African Americans are more likely than whites to be detained, to be arrested, to be taken to trial, to be wrongfully convicted, and receive harsher sentences. We need to rework our criminal justice system, from the very front end on what we make illegal all the way through the system, and how we help people come back into the community.
    Elizabeth Warren: (30:50)
    But we cannot just say that criminal justice is the only time we want to talk about race specifically. We need to start having race-conscious laws. Housing, for example, I have a great housing plan…

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  173. For the exact same crimes, study after study now shows that African Americans are more likely than whites to be detained, to be arrested, to be taken to trial, to be wrongfully convicted, and receive harsher sentences.

    The thing is, I think the truth is the opposite, except maybe for wrongful convictions.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  174. 163. I did. Until Trump was nominated and I realized I was playing the wrong game.

    Gryph (08c844)

  175. I think it’s extremely important, more than usual, who the Vice presidential candidate is if the nominee if Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden or Mike Bloomberg. That;s going to affect how a face-off between them and Donald Trump goes.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  176. re: abortion. The latest thing in the Democratic Party is the idea that the U.S. Congress should pass a law codifying Roe v Wade. They can’t legislate on that topic, except marginally.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  177. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-100-percent-supports-n

    Here’s that moderate Joe Biden again saying we should ban all plastics.

    NJRob (09ef92)

  178. The latest thing in the Democratic Party is the idea that the U.S. Congress should pass a law codifying Roe v Wade.

    I know this is quaint, but what is the Constitutional authority for Congress to do that?

    Put differently, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, then the states are free to outlaw abortion. What gives Congress the authority to say, no, states, you may not outlaw abortion?

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  179. “ The Nancy Boy thing is probably libel.”

    – Kevin M

    And if anyone is enough of a Nancy Boy to litigate such a “libel,” it’s Donald Trump.

    Leviticus (13d2ee)

  180. I loved the Carroll O’Connor clips. Rob Reiner said that O’Connor was the best television actor ever. Perhaps. The only one that was arguably as good was Jean Stapleton. What an amazing show.

    norcal (a5428a)

  181. Perhaps I remembered wrong. Here is the Reiner quote from IMDb:

    Arguably, he created the single most indelible character in the history of American television.

    norcal (a5428a)

  182. Arguably, he created the single most indelible character in the history of American television.

    #FakeNews

    Dave (1bb933)

  183. “I’m not sure I could vote for Bernie over Donald Trump.”

    Ah yes, quite the dilemma for a NeverTrumper, isn’t it? Not being able to justify your vote by pretending that Biden is some kind of “moderate”.

    BorisB (af4fcd)

  184. 184. Must be quite a feat of mental gymnastics to convince lie to yourself that Trump is any kind of “conservative.”

    Gryph (08c844)

  185. I am fortunate in that I don’t have an idealogical dog in this fight. For me that choice would be between a dude that I don’t think can get his own stuff done, though he’d likely sign Dem bills more moderate than he’d prefer passed by Congress and the head of a revolving disorganized crime family.

    Nic (896fdf)

  186. 184. No, it must be a feat of mental gymnastics to deny a man’s outstanding track record of conservative accomplishments because his personality offends your exquisite fine taste, you delicate little thing.

    BorisB (af4fcd)

  187. All conservatives pay a hooker who reminds them of their daughter $130,000 to spank them on the butt with a Forbes magazine and then have sex with them, Gryph.

    nk (1d9030)

  188. Megan Messerly
    @meganmesserly
    NEW: Top Democratic presidential campaigns in Nevada are frustrated, concerned and nervous with only five days until early voting is set to begin for the state’s first in the West presidential caucus and still no details on how exactly it’ll work.
    __ _

    🎶Del Paxton’s Piano🎶
    @Mark_Derr
    ·
    “Russia is colluding with Trump!!!!” in 5…4…3…2…

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  189. As long as he continues to implement the policies I want, I couldn’t give a damn if he paid 20 hookers who remind him of Hillary Clinton $1.263 million to rodger them up the butt with the Children’s King James Version of the Bible and then have sex with Bill.

    BorisB (af4fcd)

  190. @190 Welcome to the Democratic party of 1998. Enjoy your stay.

    Nic (896fdf)

  191. 178.
    I’m confused. The federal courts can set federal abortion policy, but the federal legislature cannot do the same.

    Iowantwo (7f978f)

  192. I couldn’t agree more, Patterico. I used to think that, as much as I’ve always disliked Biden, I could hold my nose and vote for him over Trump, but he keeps saying such idiotic things that I don’t think I could pull the lever for him. If the Democrats are stupid enough to nominate Sanders, I’ll just sit this one out.

    Roger (8a1561)

  193. It’s all plastic grocery bags, youse guys:

    THE EDITORIALIZING:
    Fielding a question on the environment posed by an international supporter in Iowa, former Vice President Joe Biden said he “100 percent” believes we should “not be allowing plastic.”

    THE “TRANSCRIPT”:
    “What’s your focus?” the Kenyan woman asked. “Because in Kenya, we are trying to clean the environment, no plastic bags, you go with your own bags.”

    “I agree with you 100 percent,” Biden replied. “We should not be allowing plastic, and what we should do is phasing it out.”

    Biden, 77, received applause for the comments. California, Hawaii, and Oregon have passed bans on the disposable plastic bags, and Sen. Kamala Harris said we “need to ban the plastic straws” in September.

    In 2015, a handful of Democrats called for a 10-cent tax on plastic bags nationwide, and just last year, the House of Representatives imposed a ban on plastic straws in its cafeterias. Washington, D.C., banned plastic straws on Jan. 1.

    ALWAYS READ THE TRANSCRIPT!

    nk (1d9030)

  194. Somebody need to tell him it’s his own DOJ’s sentencing recommendation. Let’s see if Bill Barr manages to pass the buck to the US Attorney for DC, like Mark Esper passed the buck to the Secretary of the Navy in the Eddie Gallagher case.

    nk (1d9030)

  195. Screen shot from Real Clear Politics tracking polls of Democratic presidential candidates in the New Hampshire primary, January 12 through February 9, hat tip althouse

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8fdbPN0YgCM/XkGWYTNBvJI/AAAAAAAALqU/rjNvXKlwyvAU3W8uArVrI2oa0LJ-QnCgQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2020-02-10%2Bat%2B11.43.05%2BAM.png

    Joe Biden dropped from 20%, even 25% to below 15%, probably because of the impeachment trial.

    Bernie Sandaers has climbed from 20% to above 35%. He is not getting support from former Elizabeth Warren voters, because they did not transfer to him between the first and the second round in the Iowa caucuses. Elizabeth Warren voters are largely those who did not vote for Bernie Sanders in 2016. Sanders would be getting his gains from people who would otherwise support different candidates.

    We should not see complete ideological consistency between people’s first choice and their second choices because the picture in their minds may be different.

    Elizabeth Warren has stayed about the same, dropping from 15% to more like 12%. Amy Klobuchar is said to have gained the most from Friday night’s debate but that should add at most 3% (every event has limited reach) – the last poll shows her at 11.3%, tied with Joe Biden, and just below Elizabeth Warren, who is at 12.5% – but she was still climbing (word of mouth, later reading or listening to radio or TV. She could finish at close to or above 15%. The key percentage for one or more delegates is 15% It could be that the only candidates who get delegates out of New Hampshire are Sanders, Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Biden could be, so far, frozen out.

    The leaders in the second tier are Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang, tied at 3.0% in the last poll average.Bloomberg may get above that, although he’s not actively campaigning for New Hampshire (don’t know if any of his ads are being seen there) Bloomberg was evidently not named in the poll(s)

    Flat, or near the bottom – are Deval Patrick and Michael Bennett. It’s hard to distingish on the chart between 1.0% (Patrick) and 0.3% (Bennett)

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  196. Plastic bags have a use How are people supposed to take things from the store? The substitute bags are too small, too weak (not so reusable)

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  197. 178. Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 2/10/2020 @ 7:19 pm

    but what is the Constitutional authority for Congress to do that?

    Put differently, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, then the states are free to outlaw abortion. What gives Congress the authority to say, no, states, you may not outlaw abortion?

    I haven’t heard yet.

    Of course they could withhold money, but federal courts have not been kind to that idea. It wasn’t upheld in the fiirst Obamacare case.

    Of course, they could be playing on voters’ ignorance for purposes of campaigning. And there’s always packing the Supreme Court. If you can pack the Supreme Court, you can do most anything. Or so some people may think.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  198. We’ve had Costco for as long as there’s been Costco and they’ve never given us bags of any kind. They do let us have their leftover boxes if they have any. Otherwise, it’s our problem.

    At the grocery store, sometimes I use my reusable bags and sometimes their cheap plastic ones. I don’t throw them out unless they’re dirty or torn. If I don’t find some use for them, and they accumulate, Jewel has a recycling bin where I take them.

    Bottom line, though, plastic grocery bags and straws are no reason to keep Trump. No reason at all.

    nk (1d9030)

  199. nk (1d9030) — 2/11/2020 @ 6:41 am

    We’ve had Costco for as long as there’s been Costco and they’ve never given us bags of any kind. They do let us have their leftover boxes if they have any. Otherwise, it’s our problem.

    BJs doesn’t even give people boxes.

    At the grocery store, sometimes I use my reusable bags and sometimes their cheap plastic ones. I don’t throw them out unless they’re dirty or torn. If I don’t find some use for them, and they accumulate, Jewel has a recycling bin where I take them.

    I take Glatt MArt bags wth me, but they are bags to put store bags in. I seem to break about even with plastic bags.

    Bottom line, though, plastic grocery bags and straws are no reason to keep Trump. No reason at all.

    They are doing this on a state level, ratcheting from one state to the other, and citing previous states of precedent. A lot of issues work that way.

    There was an attempt a few years ago in New York City to place a mandatory 5 cent fee on plastic bags but that law was overturned in Albany, thanks to the Republican New York State Senate – I guess Governor Andrew Cuomo must have signed it.

    But in 2018 the Democrats got a big majority in the State Senate, which had stayed Republican for more than 40 years thanks to the miracle of gerrymandering and, more recently, alliances with Democrats. (One of the Democrats, Simcha Felder, who was not with the others, had a disrrict specially crafted for him in 2012. He had a lot to do with protecting plastic bags)

    That alliance was broken up in 2018 and most of the members defeated in primaries. So they passed a law outlawing single use plastic bags in 2019 and it is scheduled to go into effect on March 1.

    So far there’s no sign what they are going to do – no store wants to alert its customers. I saw one fruit store on Flatbush avenue had a sign by the register giving that date, saying aklso they would sell reusable bags.

    I saw that Shoprite changed its bags from the extremely flimsy yellow ones to somewhat stronger mostly white ones but I have no idea if they qualify.

    It’s only three weeks ((19 days) now and no sign of any impending change.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  200. Since no one else mentioned it. I wonder if it’s significant that Trump is on a recording telling Lev Parnas (whom he denied knowing, because of course) that Bernie is the one person he didn’t want Hillary to pick as VP. Trump, for all his faults, is preternaturally canny when it comes to knowing his base and knowing how to keep them on his side. His base is his strength, and Bernie cuts into that more than any of the other possible Dem nominees. Biden? Please. Biden was never going to be a threat. I disagree with the esteemed host; I don’t think Trump wants to face Bernie.

    JRH (52aed3)

  201. Ok Maybe not the whole base. But the bro-base. The Joe Rogan listeners. Bernie can steal those guys.

    JRH (52aed3)

  202. That could be, JRH, but I think this election will be decided in the suburbs. Biden (and maybe Klobuchar and Bloomberg) is acceptable there; Bernie is not.

    DRJ (15874d)

  203. @204 I agree that the suburbs are key. We’ve seen that Trump has trouble there too. Bernie could gin up excitement among a certain demographic that usually stays home on election day. Plus perhaps peeling off some Trump anti-establishment Trump voters. Then if he is smart and picks, say, Amy Klobuchar — or someone who knows how to talk to disaffected suburbanites — as running mate, there might be a way to form a coalition to defeat the Trumpmeister. Just spitballin’. I do personally know lifelong, consistent pro-life Conservatives who have told me they will vote for any Dem nominee — including Bernie — because they see Trump as an existential threat. Not saying that is most conservatives, but I wouldn’t think it’s a good sign for the GOP.

    JRH (52aed3)

  204. 176. 178. 192. 199.

    Of course, if you can pack the Supreme Court you wouldn’t need to pass a law codifying Roe v Wade but perhaps this is until they can get it done. Or, for electioneering purposes. And the to pack the Supreme Court for other reasons. At least Bernie Sanders is against that. (of course it could be packed some more, if they did it, after the next presidential election. He thought a better idea was term limits, [which is unconstitutional] or rotating judges off and on the Supreme Court and appellate benches [possibly constitutional, and less likely to be reversed than packing because packing can be reversed with more packing, but here how would you decide who are now going to be the permanent Supreme Court judges? so you;d leave it at say, 9/20 with rotating terms] I guess you see here Bernie Sanders more practical nature.

    Others were toying with packing at least.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/voting-changes/supreme-court-packing

    https://www.axios.com/court-packing-where-2020-candidates-stand-aff0e431-7624-42f0-b37f-a9091d1652f9.html

    Tom Steyer is out-and-out for it. “Open to it” are the supposedly more moderate Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar and Andrew Yang, as well as Elizabeth Warren. Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Mike Bloomberg, Tulsi Gabard and Michael Bennett are against it. They didn’t get an answer from Deval Patrick.

    When they were in the race, Kamala Harris, Julian Castro and Cory Booker were open to it.

    In New York State you may remember, they assed alaw ccodifying Roe v Wade, because, Governor Cuomo said, the Supreme Court might overturn Roe v Wade and they wanted the law to remain the same.

    It’s also playin on voter’s ignorance of law.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  205. Bored Lawyer wrote:

    Put differently, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, then the states are free to outlaw abortion. What gives Congress the authority to say, no, states, you may not outlaw abortion?

    It depends on how it is overturned. Roe v Wade was predicated on the cockamamie notion that an unborn child is not a legal person. If the ruling is overturned, then either the Supreme Court could declare that the unborn child was a legal person, or, if that was left untouched, Congress could pass a law declaring unborn children to be legal persons. That would immediately bring all unborn children under the protections of the Fourteenth Amendment.

    The Dana in Kentucky (bb405a)

  206. 202. JRH (52aed3) — 2/11/2020 @ 7:02 am

    Trump is on a recording telling Lev Parnas (whom he denied knowing, because of course) that Bernie is the one person he didn’t want Hillary to pick as VP. Trump, for all his faults, is preternaturally canny when it comes to knowing his base and knowing how to keep them on his side.

    What he knows here (he would have been speaking to Parnass and others as Republican donors) is that his base – at least his donor base – dislikes the thought of Bernie Sanders as president even more than Hillary Clinton.

    It has nothing to do with him genuinely feeling that Sanders was a tough candidate for him to beat. Even though sometimes Sanders came out a tad better than Hillary Clinton in 2016 polls versus Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  207. Bloombergs’ bank shot is limited to PA + one other “-teen” EV state; Sanders could be disaster but could also get the Rogan vote across the non-IL Big Ten. They got to get over that Fracking aversion to buy the first drink of Western PA.

    One other complication, in terms of VP selection to complement old white guy/gal, is the fact that among those eligible for the Congressional Black Caucus, only two are relatively nonedescript and not representing inner city districts – Colin Allred of NE suburban Dallas (Richardson, Garland around the 635) and Karen Underwood of Oswego IL (far west Chicago suburbs). Neither are ex-military (Allred is a former NFL player and Underwood was a practicing RN) – I think talk of Stacy Abrams is folly because she hasnt risen past State Senate and more for appearance than color.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  208. @208. I don’t follow the logic. If as you say, adding Bernie to the Hillary ticket would have them more odious to Republican donors, why wouldn’t Trump want that?

    JRH (52aed3)

  209. IIRC New York and a few other states permitted abortion pre-Roe. The remaining states ran from prohibition to something more permissive.

    What made Roe so outrageous was partly that it removed the issue from the states where it had resided more-or-less as the body politic of each state approved and made it a federal mandate.

    There was a LOT else that made and still makes Roe outrageous, such as a court-created class of extra-constitutional human beings.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  210. According to Reuters, Pete Buttigieg was for a Supreme Court composed of 15 justices coupled with other reforms that would ensure partisan parity. Five justices would be selected unanimously by other justices. He’s talking constitutional amendment here, even if he doesn’t say so. This seems to have been Beto O]Rourke’s proposal first: Five justices selected by Democrats, five by Republicans ad five by the other 10 justices. How could such a thing be enacted? It’s not like the commission charged to decide whose electors to count in the 1876 presidential election.

    As of October 2, what Amy Klobuchar had really done was evade the question.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  211. Joe Biden pretends that Roe has something to do with unenumerated rights noted by the Ninth amendment.

    That may have been what Joe Biden (being a lawyer) wanted the Supreme Court to do in 1972, but its what the court actually did in January 1973. Roe v Wade doesn’t rest on the Ninth amendment. Am I wrong?

    I don’t think the court has ever used the 9th amendment.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  212. The day I believe anything Trump says or has ever said ….

    And having said that, just what good was Tim Kaine to Hillary that anybody could see?

    nk (1d9030)

  213. * it’s not what the court actually did in January 1973.

    It derived it from the “right of privacy” which I think it had derived from the 4th amendment a few years before..

    But anyway Joe Biden in the Friday nght debate said he was in favor of appointing justices to the Supreme Court who would use the 9th amendment, and he didn’t consider that to be a litmus test.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  214. @214. Exactly. Picking Bernie would have united the party and brought in some of those disaffected blue collars that Hillary ignored. I think Trump was right and canny here. He didn’t want Bernie as VP. And for the some reasons (imo) he doesn’t want to run against him.

    JRH (52aed3)

  215. At the grocery store, sometimes I use my reusable bags and sometimes their cheap plastic ones.

    I thought you said you always ask specifically for “the plastic ones that kill turtles”?

    Dave (1bb933)

  216. 215. How you derive a right to “privacy” from the 4th amendment is rather boggling to me, and how that further derives a right to kill your unborn children is rather bone-chilling to me. God save us from the lawyers.

    Gryph (08c844)

  217. @217 I do that with straws. I usually ask for 2 since I need to pick up the slack. And if it’s one of the hippie places with the crappy paper straws I leave a bad yelp review.

    frosty (f27e97)

  218. I thought you said you always ask specifically for “the plastic ones that kill turtles”?

    Always?

    nk (1d9030)

  219. Tim Kaine was not selected to help Hillary Clinton win the election. He was selected to help her stay in office after after she had won, and to do no harm to her election chances in the meantime.

    According to a phished John Podesta email released by Wikileaks in October, 2016, Tim Kaine had already been selected as Hillary Clinton;s Vice president in July 2015, a whole year before she announced it. He was a former DNC Chairman 2009-2011 who, when he ran for Governor of Vrginia in 2005, had been touted by DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe as a pro-business Democrat and a man of strong faith and values (Catholic), who is committed to fiscal responsibility and who was the future of the party, so there are reasons to suppose he was tied into the Clinton machine.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tim-kaine-dnc-deal (debunks the idea of too long term planning, or that he recommended DWS to succeed himself, but says he was the choice in July 2015)

    Who would have helped? That’s an interesting question. Someone with an independent reputation, who would have been impressed people as qualified to be president.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  220. And the replacements for styrofoam cups are not good. They’d have to go back to washable cups.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  221. 218. Gryph (08c844) — 2/11/2020 @ 8:35 am

    How you derive a right to “privacy” from the 4th amendment is rather boggling to me, and how that further derives a right to kill your unborn children is rather bone-chilling to me. God save us from the lawyers.

    I need to check but I think the right to privacy stems from a consideration of what is the purpose of the search warrant clause. It was ruled to include wiretapping. A lot depends on the “expectation of privacy.”

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  222. Here is what looks like some kind of a school assignment that seems to mention both the 4th and the 9th i connection with Roe, but does not say who, if anyone, used them:

    https://www.landmarkcases.org/roe-v.-wade/roe-v-wade-classifying-arguments

    The decision used the 14th amendment (not the privileges and immunities clause, but the incrporation idea)

    It may have been based on several different amendments (the real reason was that Justice Harry Blackmun had been lawyer for the Mayo clinic and many doctors there did not approve of anti-abortion laws because they said it led to botched abortions and he gave way to the temptation to put into law his preferences. After a number of years he had morphed from being a “strict constuctionist” to a living constitution judicial activist: Cognitive dissonance. He couldn’t admit to himself that he’d betrayed principle in one case.)

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  223. This is not very good research, but still:

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/clinic/wars/cases.html

    Justice Harry Blackmun, writing for the majority, argued that a woman’s decision to end her pregnancy is protected by a broad right of privacy, which though not explicitly laid out in the Constitution, previously had been found by the court to exist within the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and 14th Amendments, as well as the penumbras, or shadows, of the Bill of Rights.

    However, the Court recognized that the state had a legitimate interest in protecting the health of the pregnant woman, and Justice Blackmun’s decision laid out a framework in which varying degrees of state regulation was allowed based on the stage of the pregnancy. The decision held that the state could not prohibit abortion in the first trimester of pregnancy; in the second trimester, states could issue regulations “that are reasonably related to maternal health”; and in the final trimester, once the fetus is viable beyond the womb, the state could regulate or even prohibit abortion except in cases “where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.”

    In 2019, New York State went beyond that, even though Governor Cuomo touted it as securing Roe v Wade

    Here is Justice William O. Douglas’ concurrence:

    http://landmarkcases.c-span.org/pdf/Roe_Douglas_Concurrence.pdf

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  224. Fox reports that Biden has pulled out of NH, move his campaign to Carolina.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  225. Always?

    Eco-terrorism should be a lifestyle choice, not an occasional trifle.

    Dave (1bb933)

  226. Did I say Joe Biden was 4th in Iowa?

    I meant 5th in New Hampshire!

    You really ought to reconsider this stop Trump plan, DRJ.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  227. The candidate, among both Parties, who won the most popular votes in the Primary has gone on to win the General election in every one since 1912.

    Trump set a record for New Hampshire votes and in Iowa.

    He’s going to win the General.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  228. @229

    The candidate, among both Parties, who won the most popular votes in the Primary has gone on to win the General election in every one since 1912.

    Trump set a record for New Hampshire votes and in Iowa.

    He’s going to win the General.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 2/12/2020 @ 11:10 am

    There’s still nine more month before the election…that’s a lifetime from now, so I wouldn’t be that presumptuous.

    However, if Bernie’s wins the nomination… then it’s a vote between a commie and Trump. And I know of plenty non-Trump voters who will crawl over broken glass to vote Trump in a defensive act against Bernie.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  229. Bernie Sanders mentioned a lot of things in his speech after the primary in New Hampshire but not codifying Roe v Wade in legislation (presumably on the federal level) but he did include that in the last primary debate.

    Congress has a bad habit of passing laws without reference to the constitution. The original FEC was appointed in an unconstitutional manner. I think Democrats don’t want people to look at it (except when maybe it might be convenient)

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

  230. 201. I wrote:

    So far there’s no sign what they are going to do – no store wants to alert its customers. I saw one fruit store on Flatbush avenue had a sign by the register giving that date, saying aklso they would sell reusable bags.

    I saw that Shoprite changed its bags from the extremely flimsy yellow ones to somewhat stronger mostly white ones but I have no idea if they qualify.

    It’s only three weeks ((19 days) now and no sign of any impending change.

    Now there are, in some stores.

    I was in Shoprite Tuesday night, and rhere were signs by every register that said to remember to bring your own bags.

    Why not get rid of shopping carts and ask people to bring their own shopping carts.

    Another store, on Wednesday night, was telling people to stock up now on their store shopping bags: $39.99 for a case of 1,000.

    Both mentioned the March 1, 2020 date and that they will no longer be allowed to hand them out at checkput.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e96a4)

Leave a Reply

Comment moderation is enabled. Your comment may take some time to appear.


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.6103 secs.