Patterico's Pontifications

10/5/2019

Weekend Open Thread (UPDATE ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:46 am



[guest post by Dana]

Feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

I’ll start.

First news item: Mitt Romney criticized President Trump and the issues surrounding China and Ukraine:

U.S. Sen. Mitt Romney has revived his feud with President Trump — slamming his calls for Ukraine and China to investigate presidential rival Joe Biden and his family as “wrong and appalling” — in an apparent bid to raise his profile as the leading GOP Never-Trumper in the Senate.

“When the only American citizen President Trump singles out for China’s investigation is his political opponent in the midst of the Democratic nomination process, it strains credulity to suggest that it is anything other than politically motivated,” Romney tweeted Friday. “By all appearances, the President’s brazen and unprecedented appeal to China and to Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden is wrong and appalling.”

Romney is ramping up his criticism of the president as the House of Representatives pursues an impeachment inquiry against Trump.

The former Massachusetts governor previously said “it would be troubling in the extreme” if Trump or his personal attorney “asked or pressured Ukraine’s president to investigate his political rival.”

President Trump took to Twitter in response:

[Ed. While Trump did endorse Romney’s Senate run, and Romney accepted his endorsement, I was unable to find confirmation that Romney actually sought out the President’s endorsement.]

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Probably because it’s not true.

Just minutes ago, Trump tweeted another attack on Romney, this time calling for his impeachment because that is what this thin-skinned, tantrum-throwing man-child does when he is publicly criticized by a politician on the right side of the aisle who is viewed more favorably than himself:

Q: Exactly *who* are these “Great People of Utah” that Trump is hearing from??

Second news item: Bernie Sanders had a heart attack:

Senator Bernie Sanders was discharged from a Las Vegas hospital on Friday, three days after having stents inserted to relieve chest pains. The doctors who treated the 78-year-old presidential candidate said in a statement that Sanders was diagnosed with myocardial infarction, another term for a heart attack.

Bernie is the oldest of the Democratic candidates running in the 2020 presidential race. On the other end of the spectrum is Pete Buttigieg, who is 37 years old.

Third news item: Bloomberg Law has finally retracted their report which smeared Leif Olson as anti-Semitic, and temporarily cost him his job:

Bloomberg Law has retracted its report about a Labor Department official’s social media posts, more than one month after the outlet was criticized for the piece.

The outlet, while retracting the story on Friday, also issued an apology for the post failing to meet its “editorial standards.”

“Bloomberg Law has retracted this article, published on Sept. 3. In reporting on a series of social media posts from Department of Labor official Leif Olson, we failed to meet our editorial standards for fairness and accuracy,” the retraction said. “We regret that lapse and apologize to our readers and to Mr. Olson.”

A.G. Hamilton says a retraction just isn’t enough to make amends:

I can’t help thinking this isn’t quite the happy ending it appears to be, though. Even amid the outcry and Olson’s reinstatement, Bloomberg Law chose to stand behind Penn’s “reporting” until it retracted the story on Friday, more than month after it was published. Internal emails showed that the outlet tried to stop employees from commenting on the story. Penn publicly defended his actions by claiming that all he did was present the Department of Labor with a screenshot of the post and ask for comment, but an email recently obtained through a FOIA request by Hamilton Lincoln Law Institute’s Ted Frank shows that claim was also false. In asking the Labor Department for comment, Penn actually framed Olson’s post as “disparaging to Jews” and questioned whether Olson was “fit for government service.” Yet, Bloomberg Law refused to acknowledge that Penn or its editorial staff had done anything wrong for more than a month.

In an ideal world, major news organizations wouldn’t hire reporters who abuse their platforms to try to punish political opponents, and would have protections in place to ensure that type of abuse wasn’t possible. In this case, Bloomberg Law failed on both counts. It owes its readers and the public an explanation of why, and of how it plans to ensure that such mistakes aren’t made in the future. If it hopes to be treated as a credible outlet moving forward, it must do better.

Have a great weekend.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

183 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread (UPDATE ADDED)”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (05f22b)

  2. as the national file piece I included showed, kiev is a crossroads where every player is involved, Schiff, Nadler, Pelosi et al

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. yes lets pretend the subterfuge involving british assets through contractors like fusion and haklyut didn’t happen, and Italian and other intelligence agencies weren’t brought into the mix,

    narciso (d1f714)

  4. our president donald formerly known as mr trump is making failmerica great again and verpy mitt romneys foopter tears are like a frosty can of diet coke to refresh him before returning to work for you and me

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. Raise your hand if you think these could be doctored to incriminate another bird-like favorite son or sons of the greater DMV: http://dailysnark.com/video-shows-redskins-coach-jay-gruden-smoking-weed-trying-to-hit-on-young-girls/

    urbanleftbehind (ae0e89)

  6. ..”Bro”-Like..

    urbanleftbehind (ae0e89)

  7. its like a Mexican standoff, but only certain weapons are declared,

    https://nationalfile.com/breaking-nancy-pelosis-son-was-exec-at-gas-company-that-did-business-in-ukraine/

    narciso (d1f714)

  8. The irony is that the guy whose university and foundation had to be shut down because of corruption is “concerned” about corruption in a nation that is literally at war with Putin.-

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  9. I don’t think much of Romney. He’s as two-faced as they come, and he’s not a good leader.

    But Trump’s response, that his actions with Biden are quote “how to win” prove Trump should be impeached and then removed from office. You don’t use foreign policy to “win” elections.

    Period.

    Anybody waving their arms about some bad thing Biden said about Romney one time just straight up doesn’t get it. You don’t use foreign policy or billions of US Aid money to “win” an election. Trump is merely a symptom of how bad partisanship has gotten, but he’s also easily the worst president in American history. He’s James Buchanan 2.0, doing nothing but fanning the flames of bitter division, passing the buck on important decisions and even basic values.

    Everything that happens in the next 30 years in American politics will be because of how Donald Trump either proved the USA does have a conscience beyond partisanship, or it doesn’t. Either we’ll recoil from this, or we’ll embrace it. Romney should stay out of it because he really isn’t a conservative leader. Ted Cruz should be the one saying this stuff. I hope the GOP recognizes this is actually an opportunity.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  10. and it’s not about politics, if she did the shahada, she would get praises though,

    narciso (d1f714)

  11. then there was that sokalian* stunt at the aoc fundraiser,

    narciso (d1f714)

  12. Romney should stay out of it because he really isn’t a conservative leader. Ted Cruz should be the one saying this stuff.

    Romney is a moral leader. With every day he remains silent in the face of Trump’s assault on decency and the rule of law, Ted Cruz is proving that he isn’t.

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. Ted Cruz’s Twitter cone of silence for the last week on Trump’s little Ukraine problem speaks volumes about his “leadership”.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  14. Have Trump apologists offered a reasonable explanation for Trump’s statement to the Finnish president that Finland is a happy country because they “got rid of Pelosi and … got rid of shifty Schiff”?

    Even if you brush it off as “just a joke,” or “just trolling,” I don’t see how anyone can seriously explain away the self-absorbed lunacy of it.

    Radegunda (05af0f)

  15. A second whistleblower has met with the ICIG. He hasn’t filed an official complaint, but he corroborates the first whistleblower. I’m guessing that this second whistleblower won’t be the last whistleblower.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  16. Insert {Insult of Trump} for 1,500th time in row. Rinse and Repeat. At least 420 more times to go. Are liberals brain damaged?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  17. Romney states the obvious…. “By all appearances, the President’s brazen and unprecedented appeal to China and to Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden is wrong and appalling.”

    To which the President responds with his usual fourth grade snark: “Romney is a pompous ass”…

    So, of course, 80% of Republicans will side with the juvenile. In 1974, the vote went to Democrats in Congress by a 16% margin, I believe. That would be too kind for this bunch. They have got to be rejected but I am afraid it won’t happen if Democrats nominate either Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.

    noel (f22371)

  18. 2nd hand gossip – no need to be right. Yep, they’ll be “Whistle blowers” aka Democrat operatives.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  19. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Probably because it’s not true.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  20. Ted Cruz’s Twitter cone of silence for the last week on Trump’s little Ukraine problem speaks volumes about his “leadership”.

    Romney showing more spine than Ted Cruz. Tell Patterico circa 2015 I’d be saying that in 2019, and I’d say you’re in a radically different part of the multiverse.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  21. “I don’t think much of Romney. He’s as two-faced as they come, and he’s not a good leader.”

    “Romney is a moral leader.”

    Somebody didn’t get the same music sheet to sing from today.

    Here’s the actual Romney/NeverTrump position: “IM SORRY MR PRESIDENT WE DONT GO TO THE COMMIE CHINESE FOR THE TRUTH (however if you want to transfer my constituents’ livelihoods there, I’m open for business!).”

    Trump has always been the truest and loudest whistleblower, and those who profited most off of America’s suffering during the leaner years are those who scream loudest about it.

    Journalism Outsourcer (bdec9f)

  22. Putting things in perspective in the lun

    Narciso (d1f714)

  23. The one who’s brazen is Romney. Let’s see:

    2012 Asks Trump for Campaign Cash. Gets it.
    2016 Calls Trump racist/sexist/homophobe – Refuses to vote for him
    2017 Asks Trump to be his Secretary of State
    2018 Asks Trump for his endorsement for Senate – Trump endorses
    2019 Attacks Trump as Racist/sexist/bigot/Homophobe

    So far in 2019, Romney attacks on Pelosi/Chuck Schumer = 0, Attacks on Trump = 12 and more to come.
    Mittens is the D’s favorite Republican.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  24. The earlier link about how the press savaged puzder, so they could put acosta in, and tear him down, then they go after olson,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  25. Well between the opm hack and the equifax one, its a wonder that china doesnt have all our records

    Narciso (d1f714)

  26. Mitt Romney did not ask Trump for an endorsement in his Senate run…

    I may have said this, but America (and the world) ware better off presuming Trump’s statements are false until proven true. The odds are more in that favor.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  27. More MIttens:

    On one hand: How dare Trump not sign TTP with those noble Chinese. So what if they’re getting rich off us? They’re hard working, intelligent, etc. Too bad US business can’t compete.

    And then, How dare Trump ask those Chinese Commie B’rds to look into corruption. They’re TYRANTS!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  28. Mittens didn’t ask for Trump’s endorsement? Well, did he repudiate it? LOL

    In fact, I don’t remember a single word of criticism of Trump from Mittens – WHILE HE WAS RUNNING FOR SENATE. No, that started Day 1 of his Senate Career – in the Left-wing WaPo. AFTER he was took office.

    How convenient.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  29. Actually pete schweitzer turned up most of the work ken vogel would follow up on, bohai investments china state avionics, rosemont seneca cgn

    Narciso (d1f714)

  30. I’ve just updated the post:

    Just minutes ago, Trump tweeted another attack on Romney, this time calling for his impeachment because that is what this thin-skinned, tantrum-throwing man-child does when he is publicly criticized by a politician on the right side of the aisle who is viewed more favorably than himself:

    I’m hearing that the Great People of Utah are considering their vote for their Pompous Senator, Mitt Romney, to be a big mistake. I agree! He is a fool who is playing right into the hands of the Do Nothing Democrats! #IMPEACHMITTROMNEY— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 5, 2019

    Q: Exactly *who* are these “Great People of Utah” that Trump is hearing from??

    Dana (05f22b)

  31. So far in 2019, Romney attacks on Pelosi/Chuck Schumer = 0, Attacks on Trump = 12 and more to come.
    Mittens is the D’s favorite Republican.

    It’s so cute that you are keeping a scorecard on these sorts of things.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  32. For “a man of God” Romney has always been willing to lie about his political opponents. If they were Republicans. But then, is he really a Republican? He didn’t support Reagan in the 1980s. He ran to the left of Teddy Kennedy on social issues in 1994. He was still a social liberal when he ran for Mas Governor. But then he suddenly, “found religion” on the abortion question, just before he decided to run for POTUS in 2008. What’s his current position? is he still pro-life or has he flipped back?

    And then on illegal immigration: he was open borders in 2007, for border security in 2008, then back to open borders, then for border in security in 2012, and then back to open borders. Who knows what he said in Utah in 2018, but he’s now back to open borders. But he’s a MAN OF TRUTH. LOL.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  33. His record as a businessman was rather shady too. But hey he prays on Sunday, and talks a lot about morality – so its OK.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  34. I wonder how that noted Constitutional scholar, Donald J. Trump, thinks that Romney would be removed for office? Members of Congress are not subject to recall, and as for “impeachment,” the word our Ivy-league educated President used, that is kind of reserved for “crimes” more serious than “he said something to hurt my feelings.” Our President is a snowflake.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  35. It’s so cute that you are keeping a scorecard on these sorts of things.

    Yeah, because who cares if a Republican Pol actually supports uh…Republicans. Or behave the way, they said they would, while campaigning. We should just give them a pass. Unless its Trump.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  36. We know why they say what theh say and in whose onterest do they speak for. The pantomine is a little tiring

    Narciso (d1f714)

  37. Ha. Good for Trump. Romney is a snake in the grass. Trump probably found out that Mittens is trying to help Primary Trump in 2020 – and help elect Warren or Biden. Why Not? Romney was pretty darn comfortable in liberal Massachusetts wasn’t he?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  38. Romney’s spine, circa 2018:

    “Thank you Mr. President for the support. I hope that over the course of the campaign I also earn the support and endorsement of the people of Utah.”

    Much like #NeverTrump, the spine enters flaccid mode as soon as it’s time to stand up to a Democrat on anything.

    Munroe (53beca)

  39. I’m just hoping to see the full list: “The 12 Times That Mitt Romney Has Said Mean Things about Our President.” Is that on a White House website, or do I need to go to Seb Gorka’s Twitter feed to find it?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  40. I’m desperately trying to find a tweet or speech where Mittens attacked Chuck Shumer or Nancy Pelosi. So far, I get zero times. Of course, that’s why the RNC gave mittens all that money for his Senate Run – to help the Democrats.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  41. Trump is only a great whistleblower if you consider Putin’s “whistle” to be great.

    Ted Cruz is tough when it’s easy to be tough. When he has to put up or shut up, he has shown that he shuts up.

    Nic (896fdf)

  42. Mittens = he looks/acts like the guy who fired your Dad.

    A killer line that lost him the Midwest.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  43. Seeing as mitts key fundraiser paul singer started the fusion role against both cruz and trump.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  44. On one hand: How dare Trump not sign TTP with those noble Chinese.

    The Chinese were never part of TPP (not TTP). It was (and is) an ANTI-CHINA trade agreement.

    Do you not understand that basic fact?

    Dave (1bb933)

  45. Insert {Insult of Trump} for 1,500th time in row. Rinse and Repeat. At least 420 more times to go. Are liberals brain damaged?

    Trump talks and tweets like a lunatic, and it’s the people who notice it that are “brain damaged.” Okay, go with that.

    Trump keeps saying idiotic or nasty things, over and over – but it’s somebody else’s fault that people keep noticing and commenting on it, over and over. Can’t possibly be that anything Trump does might explain an unfavorable view of him.

    (And for the 1,500th time: noticing that Trump is a narcissistic sociopath and not very smart does not prove that someone is “liberal.”)

    Radegunda (05af0f)

  46. “Ted Cruz is tough when it’s easy to be tough. When he has to put up or shut up, he has shown that he shuts up.”
    Nic (896fdf) — 10/5/2019 @ 12:32 pm

    Yeah, it’s tough to be anti-Trump these days. A regular profile in courage.

    Munroe (53beca)

  47. We see the pattern dont we, there is outrage only directed at certain parties, the proper sanction is achieved then years later the damage is sheepishly acknowledged.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  48. Ted Cruz’s Twitter cone of silence for the last week on Trump’s little Ukraine problem speaks volumes about his “leadership”.

    He’s too busy introducing resolutions to commemorate Mahatma Gandhi.

    No, really.

    Dave (1bb933)

  49. Romney showing more spine than Ted Cruz. Tell Patterico circa 2015 I’d be saying that in 2019, and I’d say you’re in a radically different part of the multiverse.

    These are dark times.

    Dave (1bb933)

  50. Q: Exactly *who* are these “Great People of Utah” that Trump is hearing from??

    There may be some, or he could be making it up, like Sarah Sanders made up the story about the FBI agents who hated Comey.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  51. He’s too busy introducing resolutions to commemorate Mahatma Gandhi.

    To be fair, Tuesday commemorated his 150th birthday. And he’s also one of the newest targets from the ultra-woke crowd who are busy combing the past for people they can criticize.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  52. My point being, it’s far too easy for Trump to pull “Great People of Utah” out of the hat when he wants to impugn someone he feels threatened by. Further, given that Romney received 63% of the vote in Utah, I don’t believe Trump has heard one damn thing from Utahans about this. And doesn’t it go these days that if we are to believe any claims, they must not be from anonymous sources??

    Dana (05f22b)

  53. Heinlein called it ‘the crazy years’ but even ‘year of the jackpot’ doesnt capture it.

    A scientist seriously proposing human sacrifice, an artist driven down by being in the jordan river.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  54. The “pompous a$$” part of the claim wasn’t anonymous, so I believe it.

    Munroe (53beca)

  55. Here is an exchange between Ted Cruz and Chris Hayes last week:

    Cruz said that he had read both the recently released whistleblower complaint and the readout of Trump’s July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky…

    “I expected it to be” worse than it was.”

    But, he said, he found the president’s comments on Biden to be troubling. On the call with Zelensky, Trump said there was talk that Biden had called for the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating his son.

    “I would have wished the president have not gone down that road,” Cruz said.

    “Donald Trump says things frequently that I wish he wouldn’t say,” he elaborated. “I don’t have control over that. The fact that he shouldn’t have gone down that road is a long way from saying, ‘Therefore, he should be impeached and forcibly removed from office after the American people have voted in a presidential election.’

    “That is a big threshold, and there are a lot of Democrats who I think … they’re not focused on the facts. They want him impeached, and whatever the facts are are fine.”

    Cruz defended other comments Trump made, specifically a line Hayes quoted from the readout: “I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike,” in reference to a cybersecurity firm hired by the Democratic National Committee to investigate the hacking of some accounts in 2016.

    “That ask is unequivocally proper, and it cannot be the case that it is inappropriate from a law enforcement matter for the federal government to investigate foreign interference in our elections given that we’ve been doing this for 2 1/2 years,” Cruz said.

    Hayes pressed Cruz, asking if he understood the Trump reference to Crowdstrike, to which Cruz replied, “I have no idea.”

    After quoting parts of the readout, Hayes explained a conspiracy theory surrounding Crowdstrike.

    “I don’t know what happened or not. My point is that asking for an investigation into foreign interference into our elections is a perfectly appropriate law enforcement function,” Cruz answered. “And you believe that because for two years on MSNBC, the only topic of discussion has been Russia, Russia, Russia and interfering in our elections. … That’s not an illegitimate purpose.”

    Dana (05f22b)

  56. @57: Sounds like the guy with the spine is Cruz.

    Munroe (53beca)

  57. Giuliani consulted with one-degree-removed-agent-for-Putin and convicted liar/fraudster, Paul Manafort, to learn the “truth” about the infamous “black ledger” that tripped up Trump’s disgraced campaign chairman and such, bitterly clinging to debunked theory that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. Trump prefers QAnon nonsense in his efforts to ignore the fact that Putin initiated a “sweeping and systematic” effort to undermine the 2016 election, and Giuliani is his renfield.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  58. no to investigate a party to an organization that was already being reopened,

    narciso (d1f714)

  59. frum and Applebaum, were so teed up on the expectation that Volker would deliver the goods, but no major network has reviewed the testimony, like I say 1984 is a how to manual, for them,

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/5/2019 @ 1:26 pm

    Looks like your vaunted standard of proof got tossed in the dumpster again, Paul.

    Munroe (53beca)

  61. Erick Erickson is not my favorite pundit. Not my cup of tea party…But I find this a wise thread, worth paying attention to for those of us who can’t understand the attitude of the GOP elected officials when the Trump crimes seem so obvious.

    https://twitter.com/EWErickson/status/1180286585675423744

    This is an open thread. I’d like to see people engage the thoughts here.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  62. Looks like your vaunted standard of proof got tossed in the dumpster again, Paul.

    How’s that? BTW, you’ve got work to do, Munroe.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  63. the earlier link shows how ‘#metoo, is about exacting power, and discarding any objective standards, the setting is instructive though,

    narciso (d1f714)

  64. now tell us why greg craig was acquitted, for his part in the tymoshenko case, and neither podesta or weber were touched at all,

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. question, why are they not subpoenaing William taylor, the once and future satrap for those parts, the better part of valor,

    narciso (d1f714)

  66. @32 and @52 – Trump never said he was hearing *from* the Great People of Utah, he merely said he was hearing *that* the Great People of Utah, etc. Given all the other nonsense the voices in his head tell him, how can you possibly be skeptical of his claim?

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  67. oh i’m reminded when romney, entertained the ‘good intentions of the black bloc’ I know that was two years ago,

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. FTR, Munroe, when you said, “Funny how you tossed that standard of proof in the dumpster the whole two years of the collusion investigation,” you were literally making s**t up. Your comments can’t be taken seriously, bub.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  69. we pretend there’s something resembling justice, from the examples mentioned above, I know it’s a dc jury, doesn’t that validate the point,

    narciso (d1f714)

  70. The massholes ran him out of Massachusetts no reason he can’t be run out of Utah. Paging Candy!

    mg (c479e1)

  71. Jeff Goldstein on Mitt

    “You caused cancer, tortured puppies, scissor-raped a gay boy’s hair, kept women bound, and were set to put blacks back in chains. Remember?

    You didn’t fight back hard enough. And you lost.

    You’ll never, ever, ever learn.

    Get out of our way.”

    I’d say that Jeff is overstating Mitt’s bravery here by multiples.
    Mitt never fought at all, much less “didn’t fight back hard enough”

    Hate Trump all you want, but don’t make the mistake of supporting Mitt.

    steveg (354706)

  72. Appalled (1a17de) — 10/5/2019 @ 1:31 pm

    Erickson is straddling, and my guess is that he doesn’t know whether to s**t or go blind.
    He was strongly opposed to Trump, alienating true-believing Trump loyalists, and then he proclaimed that he supported Trump, alienating everyone else. Earlier he was complaining about how Democrats “coordinated” this, but it doesn’t negate the fact that Trump basically admitted to it. And now it’s wait-and-see for him. He might as well be bold about it and call it out for what it is, and not worry about what Democrats say, because they’re always going to overreact.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  73. ah phil graham is most assuredly rolling over,

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. interesting sidenote, 10 years greg sargent, burnt the manager of the proposed ‘treadstone’ program, that is the most likely candidate for source, I won’t name him,

    narciso (d1f714)

  75. R.I.P. Diahann Carroll

    Black is beautiful.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. @48 Did you somehow forget who Cruz’ constituency is?

    Nic (896fdf)

  77. Sad to see that Jeff Goldstein has turned into a Schlichterite knob-polisher.

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. There may be some, or he could be making it up, like Sarah Sanders made up the story about the FBI agents who hated Comey.

    Did someone take a scientific poll on Comey’s on internal FBI popularity ? I’d think that you could find agents who hated Comey and those who thought the opposite. No doubt Sanders was exaggerating, but to say she was “making it up”, seems harsh.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  79. “Your comments can’t be taken seriously, bub.”
    Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/5/2019 @ 1:47 pm

    Oh, you were serious? Ok, search “collusion” on this site, go to your very first comment in the very first post that pops up.

    It is becoming clearer that there is a Putin-Wikileaks-Stone/Corsi-Trump axis, and it does raise the possibility of two-degree removed collusion. If he was willing to bribe Putin with a $50 million penthouse, it stands to reason that he would do other immoral, unpatriotic un-American things.
    Paul Montagu (8afb2a) — 11/30/2018 @ 9:28 am

    That took all of 15 seconds to find. If I had another 15 seconds to waste I’m sure I could find more.

    Munroe (f2f14e)

  80. On second thought, I guess your statement “she made it up” is true, since if she didn’t have cold hard facts supporting her statement, that’s technically “Making it up”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  81. oh i’m reminded when romney, entertained the ‘good intentions of the black bloc’ I know that was two years ago,

    Utterly dishonest mischaracterization.

    Dave (1bb933)

  82. Such heated rhetoric from the ‘principled idealists’ today and the past week! What could it all mean? No, don’t bother asking, I’ll tell you:

    Trump is taking a stab at the very heart of the system of graft that members of Congress have been using to enrich themselves for decades. Whether it’s high-dollar speeches, massive advances on books nobody will ever read, partnerships at law firms despite having not practiced in 20 years, or plum leadership sinecures at corporations, these guys are all on the take, and if Trump blows up the reverse bribery system, they’re all going to lose out on future riches. Remember Ben Nelson? After losing his Senate seat over a crucial vote for Obamacare, he became CEO of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, despite having been away from the insurance business for around 25 years. Paul Ryan sits on the board of Fox News; I’m sure it’s because he’s such an expert in media and not in any way a reward for holding the line for big business while Speaker. Ben Sasse’s predecessor, Mike Johanns, “serves on the Board of Directors of Deere & Co and Burlington Capital Group. He is on the Board of Managers of OSI group and is on the Advisory Board of QDChip.” Board positions frequently pay six figures, and yeah, I’m sure the makers a quantum-dot spectrometer need the oversight of a former Nebraska Senator who’s spent his whole adult life in politics. Romney and the rest of the NeverTrump contingent aren’t trying to win respect from the left; they’re trying to keep Trump from taking away his trough.

    Trump’s offered the Republicans a hell of deal: either you give up the bribes and stop selling out the American people, particularly to foreign interests, and win, or you try to keep your grip on the old ways and go down in flames. Trump’s been making the choices a lot starker over the last couple years. The Democrats spat on his initial offer after the GOP snubbed him, so he’s doubled down in making the Democrats hate not just him, but every Republican. Now, even Republicans who hate Trump’s guts are starting to realize that, no, there won’t be any rewards for them if he doesn’t win. They’ll hang together or hang separately. But not all of them. Sasse, Romney, and a few others are still deluded into thinking that if the Democrats win in 2020, they’ll be rewarded for their betrayal with those fat sinecures rather than their heads on pikes.

    And, I assume, all the ‘I USED to be a Republican, back when we had PRINCIPLES!!!’ types will all of a sudden have been in the Democrat party all along, while all their previous posts mysteriously…disappear

    Journalism Outsourcer (2362a7)

  83. Erickson is straddling

    I’ve always thought he was a fraud, primarily out for a “reasonable conservative” slot on the a liberal network like CNN/MSNBC or newspaper. Hence all the crazy flip flops and zig-zags over the last 8 years. What the liberal media considers “reasonable” keeps changing and the “reasonable conservatives” are having a hard time keeping up. For example, 12 years ago being against Gay Marriage was still “reasonable” but now it will get you fired. Erickson also didn’t get an invite to the Bulwark. And the man’s gotta eat.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  84. No doubt Sanders was exaggerating, but to say she was “making it up”, seems harsh.

    She testified herself, under oath, that her statement “was not founded on anything.”

    Sanders told this Office that her reference to hearing from “countless members of the FBI” was a “slip of the tongue.” She also recalled that her statement in a separate press interview that rank-and-file FBI agents had lost confidence in Comey was a comment she made “in the heat of the moment” that was not founded on anything.
    – Mueller Report, Vol. II, page 72

    Dave (1bb933)

  85. #87 Kasich and the Va Congressman who lost his seat over Amnesty, immediately landed good jobs with Goldman Sachs. Hunter Biden’s deal with the Ukraine and China is typical. Average American’s don’t really follow in DC is getting jobs/selling their services to foreign companies. I wonder how many other Congressman/Senators have their children or wives getting payments directly or indirectly thought “Foundations” or “Non-profits” from China/Ukraine/etc.

    If all that isn’t enough, they just bribe former Pols by paying them for after-retirement speeches. The message is: Play ball for us while you’re in office, and once you leave you can get $50,000 a speech. How much did Clinton/Obama get for their “speeches” after they left? I’d include Bush II in that but I think he was already rich.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  86. OK thanks Dave! I was wrong.

    BTW, I’m not sure why Mueller include that, but you gotta fill-up 900 pages somehow.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  87. I’d say that Jeff is overstating Mitt’s bravery here by multiples.

    That’s hard to do, given that Mittens has all the bravery of a scared rabbit running for its life. He’s the original flip-flopper and pander bear.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  88. Yes, I remember when Mittens repudiated TRump’s endorsement. It was in all the headlines. And all the criticism of Trump in the summer and Fall of 2018. Oh wait, that never happened. All the criticism stopped when Romney started his run in 2018, and the Mitt’s Trump-hate started up again after November 2018. He’s probably the only R Senator show began his first day by writing a WaPo editorial criticizing a member of his own party.

    Truly a brave man and an honest man. As Mark Anthony would say.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  89. so he’s doubled down in making the Democrats hate not just him, but every Republican.

    Just what wee needed in a president: Someone who wants to make everyone hate everyone else.

    Insiders report that Trump likes to provoke his subordinates to fight among themselves too. So much winning!

    It’s baffling that anyone could look at Trump’s past (or present) and think “There’s a guy who’s so fervently devoted to bringing honesty and integrity to our government that he will happily destroy the party he claims to represent in the process!”

    Radegunda (05af0f)

  90. @87 That’s a nice fantasy, but it isn’t what is happening. There are instances of what you are talking about, that you actually gave as examples, that would be effective to go after because they are in our own jurisdiction and are NOT an obvious example of an illegal use of power. He isn’t doing that. Instead he’s going after the son of a political opponent, outside our jurisdiction, by threatening a foreign leader. If he were going after corruption, it would be easy to do and people would support him, but he isn’t, he’s just looking for election leverage.

    Nic (896fdf)

  91. If Sanders had made it up and put it in a dossier, it would’ve been totally legit.

    Munroe (f2f14e)

  92. Its very dark comedy for the times to be concerned over ukraine, you realize that. Now the only crime i see is for three years no weapons were delivered to ukraine.

    Narciso (d939cf)

  93. Well who backstopped the weiner laptop, btw why havent the contents been of note.

    Narciso (d939cf)

  94. If Sanders had made it up and put it in a dossier, it would’ve been totally legit.

    Nah.

    Dave (1bb933)

  95. That took all of 15 seconds to find. If I had another 15 seconds to waste I’m sure I could find more.

    You don’t understand conditional statements, Munroe. Weak and lame.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  96. Interesting article in the New Yorker about the origins of the Biden and Clinton “scandals.”

    https://outline.com/uEfWrN

    They came out of Bannon’s Florida based Government Accountability Institute, where Schweizer, editor-at-large for Breitbart and author of Clinton Cash and Secret Empires, is president. Schweizer collaborates with Solomon at The Hill and Hannity at Fox News to peddle his conspiracy theories to a wider audience. Both have been frequent guests on the Faux News Network.

    Thoroughly debunked and completely discredited, Giuliani has totally bought into these conspiracy theories, as evidenced by the packet made up of Trump Hotel folders he distributed to the State Department, which the IG turned over to committee chairs at a meeting earlier this week. Tainted Trump talking point?

    Over at Bloomberg, Timothy O’Brian argues that Trump is openly courting foreign help to win reelection and practically daring Congress to impeach him.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/read-trump-lips-wants-foreign-181044715.html

    Money quote: “Anyone who solicits or accepts foreign assistance risks being on the wrong end of a federal investigation.”Laurence Tribe, a professor at the Harvard Law School and a leading constitutional scholar, told me that he sees some method in Trump’s madness on the White House lawn. “He obviously believes that if he commits his felonies in broad daylight and out in the open that he hasn’t done anything wrong — and that no one would think he’s stupid enough to commit an impeachable offense in front of everyone,” he said.If Trump is muddying the waters by giving Democrats too many impeachable acts to track, Tribe suggests that they focus solely on building their case around two articles of impeachment that involve his Ukraine and Russia dealings: betrayal of country and stonewalling Congress.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  97. Of course like saying theres a russian consulate in miami, simple things one could checkm

    Narciso (d939cf)

  98. For some reason my comment won’t post. It doesn’t go into moderation, but just vanishes. Have I been banned?

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  99. The thing I like most about this Ukraine collusion scandal is that it just reminds Americans again that all the AG Barr “NO COLLUSION” BS was not just an effort to lie to use about the Trump+Russia collusion, but an effort to keep that corruption going so they could screw with the 2020 election, which of course Trump did.

    It’s amusing to me because Trump’s more echo chamber types are really invested in ‘no collusion’ being a proven fact. but when you say a lie is a proven fact enough, you lose credibility. Look at Munroe’s effort to tell Paul that the fact that Putin got that penthouse would be a hint that other corruption is ongoing is a huge scandal… against Paul! Trump did indeed try to gift Putin a $50 mill penthouse, I might add. Putin is our nation’s enemy. There’s no way around these facts. A billionare trying to but the presidency, not through advertisements or organization, but through gifts to murderous dictators, engaged in spying and hacking and much, much worse.

    As to those complaining that Cruz has utterly failed his supporters: good point. good point. sigh.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  100. For some reason my comment won’t post. It doesn’t go into moderation, but just vanishes. Have I been banned?

    If it has more than four links, or uses certain naughty or not-so-naughty-but-still-randomly-not-allowed words (typically phrases belabored into prohibition by happyfeet), it will go into moderation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  101. @22 (Patterico): Ted Cruz hasn’t been completely silent, Patterico. In fact, he came out hard a couple of days ago — against Bill Kristol, berating Kristol for his “hatred of Trump” and ridiculing Kristol for the latter’s suggestion that it’s too early for “conservatives” to dismiss the impeachment inquiry’s legitimacy, without having seen most of the evidence.

    That’s no defense of Kristol, but merely a reflection on Cruz. As usual, or rather as always, since early 2017, Ted Cruz has positioned himself as an attack dog for Trump, an apologist for Trump, yet another careerist, climbing, say-anything-to-stay-“relevant”-in-the-Trump-era shoeshine boy for Trump.

    In short, he has gone the extra mile to prove himself worthy of someone’s old nickname for him: “Lyin’ Ted.”

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  102. Mueller investigated whether Trump firing Comey was obstruction of justice. Trump had said he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. When Sarah Huckabee Sanders said there were many FBI agents complaining about Comey, she was offering a different reason for Trump’s decision. That is why Sanders’ claim was relevant to the Mueller investigation and whether she lied is important.

    DRJ (15874d)

  103. At the World Gymnastics Championships, US gymnast Simone Biles has pulled off not one, but two first-ever moves, one in the floor exercise and one on the balance beam, both of which will be named after her.

    You go girl!

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. Good grief, Dave. Incredible moves.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  105. Helluva Saturday for ‘dem’ Noo Yawkers; a Yankees grand slam and Trump kickin’ pompous a$$!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. Gawain’s Ghost,

    For some reason, a comment by you was in the spam filter. It’s been released.

    Dana (05f22b)

  107. What kills me is that Trump has lambasted Romney and said more negative things about him than he’s ever done with ruthless, murderous thugs and strongmen, like Putin or Kim Jong Un. How come this doesn’t make Trump loyalists absolutely cringe in shame?

    Dana (05f22b)

  108. So I guess the media’s view of Romney has softened:

    Zeke Miller
    @ZekeJMiller
    Romney motorcade just passed a hill flying a large confederate flag in rural SW VA
    8:14 AM · Oct 5, 2012

    _

    harkin (58d012)

  109. @95 “That’s a nice fantasy, but it isn’t what is happening. There are instances of what you are talking about, that you actually gave as examples, that would be effective to go after because they are in our own jurisdiction and are NOT an obvious example of an illegal use of power. He isn’t doing that. Instead he’s going after the son of a political opponent, outside our jurisdiction, by threatening a foreign leader. If he were going after corruption, it would be easy to do and people would support him, but he isn’t, he’s just looking for election leverage.”

    Thanks for giving the game away, Nic:

    Annoying ‘Republican’ quislings on our side who we tolerate due to having a thin Congressional majority in order to get unimportant things like ‘wage increases and job security for the lowest classes among us': TOTALLY WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION, GO AFTER YOUR ALLIES, PREFERABLY ENOUGH TO GIVE US A CONGRESSIONAL MAJORITY.

    People who openly flout the law, buy out the party and media organs, abuse the classification system, State Department, and CIA while lying shamelessly whenever they can get away with it: NOT WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION, THE PRESIDENT IS ONLY THE PRESIDENT OF HIS PARTY, ANY CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE OPPOSITE PARTY ARE UNFAIR TO PROSECUTE.

    “Trump has lambasted Romney and said more negative things about him than he’s ever done with ruthless, murderous thugs and strongmen, like Putin or Kim Jong Un. How come this doesn’t make Trump loyalists absolutely cringe in shame?”

    Putin and Kim Jong Un are actually running their own countries and have earned at least the respect due people who have maintained control over a country with an active nuclear arsenal. Romney can’t break 50% anywhere but his home state, which did, in fact, vote for Trump before it voted for him. Live in a democracy, live by the democracy’s rules. Those rules include: ‘if you break with the party orthodoxy and don’t have a more powerful alternative political bloc, you’re gonna get cast out!’ Trump had one when he took over in 2016, Romney…didn’t. Apparently getting the votes of the 47% was a lot more important than he thought! Did he assume himself some sort of expert?

    Anyway, all this mendacious moralizing tires me. You have no candidate, you have no chance.

    Journalism Outsourcer (a7aaa7)

  110. Okay, I’ll try again without the links. Maybe that was the problem, so I’ll just refer to the sites where they can be found, should anyone care to read the articles.

    Over at RealClearPolitics, there are two. The first is by Jane Mayer in the New Yorker, and she traces the origins of the Biden and Clinton “scandals.” These conspiracy theories find their beginnings at Bannon’s Florida-based Government Accountability Institute, were Schweizer, editor-at-large for Brietbart News and author of Clinton Cash and Secret Empires, is president. Schweizer collaborates with Solomon not at the Hill and with Hannity on Fox News to peddle his conspiracy theories to a wider audience. Thoroughly debunked and completely discredited, Giuliani has totally bought into these conspiracy theories, as evidenced by the packet of Trump Hotel folders he distributed to the Sate Department, which the IG turned over to committee chairs at their meeting earlier this week.

    The second is by Timothy O’Brian in Bloomberg Opinion, and he argues that Trump is openly asking for foreign help to win reelection and practically daring Congress to impeach him. Money quote: “Anyone who solicits or accepts foreign assistance risks being on the wrong end of a federal investigation.”Laurence Tribe, a professor at the Harvard Law School and a leading constitutional scholar, told me that he sees some method in Trump’s madness on the White House lawn. “He obviously believes that if he commits his felonies in broad daylight and out in the open that he hasn’t done anything wrong — and that no one would think he’s stupid enough to commit an impeachable offense in front of everyone,” he said.If Trump is muddying the waters by giving Democrats too many impeachable acts to track, Tribe suggests that they focus solely on building their case around two articles of impeachment that involve his Ukraine and Russia dealings: betrayal of country and stonewalling Congress.

    These two accounts are supported by Betsy Swan, Asawin Suebsaeng and Spencer Ackerman at the Daily Beast, who report that Giuliani began looking around in Ukraine for material for his counter-report to discredit the Mueller investigation, when he came up with the idea of focusing on pressing the Ukrainian government to reopen the corruption investigation into Burisma and the Bidens. (Giuliani, along with Barr and Pompeo, also went looking around in the United Kingdom, Italy and Australia for material for the counter-report, which was submitted as a roughly 100-page outline to the State Department. However, its assertions and conclusions were so questionable that it was not released.) The authors argue that Giuliani’s attempt to discredit Mueller transformed into an attempt to smear Biden backfired and resulted in an impeachment probe of the president, his client.

    Finally, Nick Gillespie at Reason writes that we should thank Trump for revealing how power and influence in politics and government really work. The problem, he argues, is not with Trump per se, but with the system itself. Trump truly believes this is how it’s done, but he’s so “cartoonishly stupid” that he lacks the sophistication of more suave and successful political operatives. So, to Gillespie, it doesn’t matter if Trump is impeached, convicted and removed, loses or wins reelection. His presidency has revealed that we need to think seriously about reforming the system, or the problem is only going to get worse.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  111. Thank you, Dana. I was writing a more inclusive post without links, while you freed my previous comment. But I hate to be redundant, so I apologize for the confusion.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  112. “It’s amusing to me because Trump’s more echo chamber types are really invested in ‘no collusion’ being a proven fact. but when you say a lie is a proven fact enough, you lose credibility.”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 10/5/2019 @ 3:16 pm

    Yeah.

    Plenty of examples. Like, just picking one at random, claiming Nicholas Sandmann is a racist punk, then doubling and tripling down on it. But, that’s an extreme example. Nobody would ever do that. But, if they did their credibility would be totally shot.

    Munroe (53beca)

  113. @112: Dana observes, “What kills me is that Trump has lambasted Romney and said more negative things about him than he’s ever done with ruthless, murderous thugs and strongmen, like Putin or Kim Jong Un. How come this doesn’t make Trump loyalists absolutely cringe in shame?”

    That’s a rhetorical question, right? I mean, if being a Trump loyalist itself wouldn’t make those people cringe in shame, then what would?

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  114. @114 Companies inside the US are within our jurisdiction. Companies in Ukraine are not in our jurisdiction. I don’t know why you are getting over emotional about that fact.

    Nic (896fdf)

  115. @114: “Putin and Kim Jong Un are actually running their own countries and have earned at least the respect due people who have maintained control over a country with an active nuclear arsenal. Romney can’t break 50% anywhere but his home state, which did, in fact, vote for Trump before it voted for him.”

    You make the fact that two anti-democratic thugs are “running their own countries” as tyrants sound like justification for Trump’s not criticizing them, or even for treating them as people “due respect.” Didn’t we get beyond “might makes right” about 2,400 years ago? (Trump didn’t make that leap, I grant you, but didn’t civilization?)

    As for Romney the loser vs. Trump the winner, do you seriously believe the person with enough popular support to win an election is necessarily the best man? Do you believe the genuine best man in any country could ever win an election in that country, “democratic” politics being what it is?

    If not, then belittling Romney (or anyone else) on the grounds that he couldn’t win an election whereas Trump could just seems like typical tribal “winning is everything” talk. Winning isn’t everything, because elections are not pie-eating contests. Defending principles and trying to lead people through better ideas, rather than following the mob wherever they lead in order to win a popularity pageant, is supposed to be the whole point of politics in a republic, isn’t it?

    And as for your underlying premise — “‘if you break with the party orthodoxy and don’t have a more powerful alternative political bloc, you’re gonna get cast out!’ Trump had one when he took over in 2016, Romney…didn’t” — Trump most certainly DID NOT “break with party orthodoxy” when he “took over.”

    Trump was the choice of the party orthodoxy: the Fox News candidate, Mitch McConnell’s major donor and endorser (and Romney’s endorser in 2012, like a good little establishment puppet), and the man the party’s inner circle decided would best serve their interests in thwarting a genuine grassroots constitutionalist insurgency during the primaries, while simultaneously tearing the grassroots apart forever. “Crush” the Tea Party, as McConnell promised in 2014, when Trump was writing $50,000 checks to his campaign. Was McConnell’s wife the first or second of Trump’s cabinet appointments? I can’t remember — it was either her or Reince Priebus.

    Daren Jonescu (2f5857)

  116. Vietnam war draft dodger and chicken hawk mitt romney.(he was on a mormon mission to the working girls of paris! mormon missionaries were not drafted) Became a life time member of the NRA a few days before he announced he was running for president as a seriously conservative tells you all you want to know about this phony. While running in the presidential primary in iowa a vietnam vet confronted romney and asked “if you support the iraq war so much why are none of your kids serving iraq like you dodged the vietnam war draft and your (george romney) dodged world war II draft? Romney’s reply My kids are serving their country the are helping me get elected! Remember corporations are people too!

    lany (17000e)

  117. no the party backed jeb, and Christie and Kasich, in probably that order, the firsts campaign manager is making excuses for oligarchs, the second was salvaged from a bridge by the current fbi director, and the last is making a fool of himself yet again, now those are rocket surgeons compared to ‘Sweeney todd’ weld, joe ‘badabing’ walsh and mark Sanford, who was the second most ridiculous figure in Carolina politics, the first being Thomas ravenel

    narciso (d1f714)

  118. This new trailer for the series Star Trek: Picard, coming in January, looks amazing.

    Make it so!

    Dave (1bb933)

  119. Nicholas Sandmann is a racist punk, then doubling and tripling down on it. But, that’s an extreme example. Nobody would ever do that.“

    It’s hard to reserve judgement when the evil MAGA face is just so dang slappable.

    Plus – they found a pic of him with his Trump-MAGA Grand Wizard.

    https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/sandmann-and-covington-bishop-twitter.png?w=469&h=531
    _

    harkin (58d012)

  120. Hmmm, Secretary of Energy Rick Perry is getting drawn in to Ukraine scandal, because he attended Zelensky’s inaugural (in place of Vice-President Pence, who Trump ordered not to go), and because he has had several meetings with the Ukrainian president and other officials in an attempt to convince them to reform the state-run oil and expand its board membership to include Americans, recommending two from Texas, an oil industry executive and a hedge fund manager.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/05/rick-perry-ukraine-trump-030230

    That doesn’t sound like he’s acting with corrupt attempt, and there’s no indication that’s he’s ever brought up reopening the corruption investigation into Burisma or ever mentioned Biden. It does, however, look like he’s trying to coordinate a better relationship between Ukraine and Texas, which in the current climate could have the appearance of impropriety.

    The article mentions that Perry intends to resign next month. If true, that means he’s getting out while the getting out is good, before the fit hits the shan. He’s done his job, and admirably so. Under his guidance, the US now leads the world in oil and natural gas production, and Texas has benefited greatly. (Who knows what he could have done as president?) But in this administration, no one’s reputation is safe from scandal.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  121. Yes, letting ukraine be dependent on russian natural gas is much better.

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. no the party backed jeb, and Christie and Kasich

    None of those guys were contenders. Rubio, Sanford, Cruz were contenders.

    The party backed Trump against Cruz, when it became clear those were our choices. They’d rather have democrat-lite than a guy who at least appeared, at the time, to be the real deal. And make no mistake: Trump is much more like a democrat than any of his opponents were. The guy promoted Hillary many times.

    Munroe, specific yes or no question: is a tomahawk chop and a fake mumble chant directed at a native american a racist insult? Please answer this without your usual weasel crap.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  123. @125 Sounds like he’s kept his head down and done his job and is now going to get out. Good for him on all three counts.

    @127 I don’t think Trump is more a democrat or a republican, I think he’s an opportunist. Whatever he thinks he needs to espouse to get an advantage, he espouses.

    Nic (896fdf)

  124. Do you wonder how the echo chamber always excuses democrats, and finds ways to impugh republicans, jane mayers career is all about that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. @127 I don’t think Trump is more a democrat or a republican, I think he’s an opportunist. Whatever he thinks he needs to espouse to get an advantage, he espouses.

    This is fair.

    It just happens that as a new york crook, that’s usually been promoting Hillary.

    But aside from Trump mumbling about Obama being from Kenya, most of his real anger was at the George W Bush kind of Republican. It is fascinating to me that the GOP was weak enough to be taken over by this guy.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  126. It’s hard to reserve judgement when the evil MAGA face is just so dang slappable.

    His lawsuits total more than 450 times the average wrongful death judgment. The guy thinks he’s a bigger victim than 450 dead people. I wouldn’t slap him, but if his sense of entitlement about the free speech of others could be slapped… maybe.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  127. And lawrence tribe has been stark raving mad for some time now.

    narciso (d1f714)

  128. Sanford? With Rubio and Cruz? I hope you are seeing the future rather than mis-describing 2016.

    urbanleftbehind (5bec2f)

  129. One of those multiverse endings, you knoe i couldnt really atomach the hangover, so an origin story that ends where you think it will, didnt impress me.

    narciso (d1f714)

  130. Bad look in general, 1 person 250 MM…if it had been the whole group of Covington Catholic HS students on that field trip and one less zero on the damages it might have been far more plausible.

    urbanleftbehind (5bec2f)

  131. It is fascinating to me that the GOP was weak enough to be taken over by this guy.

    The truly astounding thing is that evangelicals are the ones who carried him to the nomination.

    If that demographic had given their votes to Ted Cruz – an actual believing Christian – instead of a debauched, blasphemous reprobate like Trump, Cruz would have had the nomination locked up by Super Tuesday.

    Dave (1bb933)

  132. “Munroe, specific yes or no question: is a tomahawk chop and a fake mumble chant directed at a native american a racist insult? Please answer this without your usual weasel crap.”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 10/5/2019 @ 6:17 pm

    Your weasel crap question doesn’t earn a yes-no answer from me.

    Explain how the question is relevant to Sandmann, and you’ll get an answer.

    Munroe (53beca)

  133. Anyway, all this mendacious moralizing tires me. You have no candidate, you have no chance.

    According to the polls, which vary a bit, anywhere from 80-90% of Republicans support Trump. It took Mittens – with the Establishment behind him – all the way till April to beat a weak field of Gingrich and Santorum. And I doubt Romney could’ve been elected Senator in 2018 anywhere but Utah.In a word, Trump is popular with R’s, Romney is not, and never really has been.

    So Mitt won’t run, he’ll continue to snipe, backstab, and act like a 2nd Jeff Flake.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  134. I’m surprised we’re still talking about Trump anyway, because according to the Never Trumpers he was finished in 2017 when he fired Comey, then he was dead man walking because of Mueller and Trump/Russia in 2018, and now its impeachment and disgrace with Ukraine and Biden. The Walls are closing in. We’ve got him this time!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  135. Munroe, your weasel response was anticipated and I’m greatly amused you are so consistent about never having a moral compass or a clear answer to anything.

    It was a simple yes or no question.

    Anyone who can’t just say “yes” to that scenario being obviously racist is a racist punk. Playing games and refusing to acknowledge it is, of course, bad. Have moral courage.

    Yes or no.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  136. Never forget Bill Kristol and Never Trumpers: Utah’s Egg McMuffin is tanned and ready for a 2nd try!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  137. #108 — How is it even possible to spring that high into the air? Some of Simone’s “master classes” have popped up on YouTube when I’m watching French documentaries and whatnot, and a recurrent theme is that the secret is “squeeze your bum.” Somehow I suspect the real key is a little more complicated.

    Since this is an open thread: Summer moved on, and the way it goes, you can’t tag along. But you can move to Memphis.

    Radegunda (05af0f)

  138. “Have moral courage.
    Yes or no.”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 10/5/2019 @ 7:02 pm

    There’s a reason why virtually all of the smear merchants have walked back their false claims, and you haven’t.

    Munroe (53beca)

  139. Well, you’re not going to impress the Punisher truck decal/Blue middle stripe on the flag crowd if your religion cant keep this mook from spoiling your annual convention:

    http://www.tmz.com/2019/10/05/kanye-west-sunday-service-utah-salt-lake-city-mormon-weekend-jesus-walks/

    urbanleftbehind (5bec2f)

  140. @130 Pretty much.

    Nic (896fdf)

  141. Munroe, lying about me is just another troll weasel move. I’m not interested in your opinion of me. Obviously since I’m a really nice person you hate my guts. No biggie.

    Yes or no question. Do you have a moral compass? Are you capable of answering “yes” or “no” to a conversation you started by insulting me? Are you somehow calculating what it means to your dumb propaganda if you say one thing or the other? Must get tiring carrying all that water.

    But I know you’ll never answer now that you’ve set yourself up as refusing to do so. Somehow, in your head, just calling racism what it is would be losing, when in reality, you just showed tolerance for it like a racist punk. And that gets to the heart of why a lot of people don’t like Trump or his MAGA hat, smirks or not.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  142. Thats as open and shut a case of media malpractice as one can imagine, its very hatd to take you seriously if you cant acknowledge that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. “The guy thinks he’s a bigger victim than 450 dead people. ”

    Still reading minds eh?
    _

    harkin (58d012)

  144. @112. Look to their alternate universe: Romney’s a ‘Marriott Man’ through and through; competitor to Trump Hotel and casino turf. No love lost t’ween those two — ever.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. ‘Are you capable of answering “yes” or “no” to a conversation you started by insulting me?‘
    Dustin (6d7686) — 10/5/2019 @ 7:31 pm

    False. You jumped into a discussion I was having with someone else, and called me out by name. It started there, with you.

    As the topic was standards of proof, jumping in probably wasn’t the best idea.

    Munroe (53beca)

  146. Dustin @10.

    But Trump’s response, that his actions with Biden are quote “how to win”

    I didn’t read it that way, and that interpretation truly surpprises me, although, if you wanted Trump’s response to make sense, you could read it that way.

    I read that as a typical Trump non-sequitor, or as an attempt to claim that because he won, and Romney didn’t, he should be paid attention to. It’s the same thing as when he refers to “the failing New York Times.”

    Trump’s asking China to investigate Biden wasn’t serious (and they wouldn’t be investigating Biden but somebody in China, acting on behalf of the government of course, and in fact Xi Jinping would be investigating himself pretty soon) and was made in passing, and Trump must be understood here as saying Biden deserves to be.

    You don’t use foreign policy or billions of US Aid money to “win” an election

    He wanted the investigation more to win an ongoing argument than to help him in an election – the consequences are too unpredictable and this would be looking too many moves ahead.

    Biden’s camp is arguing that Biden is Trump’s strongest opponent so Trump went after him. That’s pretty self-serving. It could very well be argued that attempting to destroy Joe Biden’s reputation at this stage in the election cycle is not the best move Trump could make to win an election. Suppose a better candidate emerges? Even if you argue that none is possible, you could see also a major third party candidate running if, say, Elizabeth Warren is the nominee, and it is hardly completely certain that that would help Trump because maybe people who otherwise, despite everything, preferred Donald Trump to Elizabeth Warren, could decide to vote for the third party candidate.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  147. It was illustrating absurdity by being absurd.

    narciso (d1f714)

  148. Explain how the question is relevant to Sandmann, and you’ll get an answer.

    Because in the video of the Covington incident, several of the students can be seen giving tomahawk chops and emitting mock war chants. They were in other words acting like a bunch of immature teenagers.

    Overall, the person who was most mature and responsible in that incident was young Mr. Sandmann. I would contend that not only did he smirk, but his smirk was a justified reaction to Phillips. But he was restrained and acted polite, unlike everyone else in the video.

    Kishnevi (c41ca4)

  149. “The guy thinks he’s a bigger victim than 450 dead people. ”

    Still reading minds eh?
    _

    harkin (58d012) — 10/5/2019 @ 7:36 pm

    No. He told the court, through his lawyers, that he was injured to the tune of $525 million due to the unkind things people said about him. The average wrongful death judgment is $1.3 million. He thinks the criticism he received is worth hundreds of times more than a wrongful death.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  150. Because in the video of the Covington incident, several of the students can be seen giving tomahawk chops and emitting mock war chants. They were in other words acting like a bunch of immature teenagers.

    Overall, the person who was most mature and responsible in that incident was young Mr. Sandmann. I would contend that not only did he smirk, but his smirk was a justified reaction to Phillips. But he was restrained and acted polite, unlike everyone else in the video.

    Kishnevi (c41ca4)

    I appreciate your good faith point of view, but I disagree with you in a two ways.

    Immature teenagers is certainly true (then… they are adult men now). But they were more specifically being immature teenagers by racing in front of cameras to do racist stuff. We don’t know who did what. That was one of the winning arguments for the Washington Post in court. But we do know that the mob on the MAGA side was being racist. Which is no surprise. This school had that scandal with the blackface kids at the basketball game too. They are a really racist group of entitled punks, in my opinion. That’s their culture. It’s a shame the adults didn’t say anything or do anything until it was a national scandal.

    Was smirking in the face of the guy facing a bunch of racist stuff an act of stoic maturity in the face of a bunch of terrible people? I don’t agree with your interpretation at all. I think he was amused and pleased, and not at all sorry for what he saw. It’s no surprise. There is debate over whether a MAGA hat is racist, because though Trump has said racist things and is supported by all major American white supremacist organizations, one might support him for unrelated reasons, such as immigration reform. But a MAGA hat wearer grinning in the face of objective racist conduct from his friends… is that someone one could honestly opine as racist?

    And no disrespect intended, but it’s interesting how lightning quick the right will insist someone on the left is racist. How quickly they see into a soul of a Shirley Sherrod or a Robert Byrd or a critic of Clarence Thomas or other black republicans.

    It’s a shame we can’t leave race out of it. I’ve been commenting on this blog for ten years I bet, and I’ve always been pretty quick to point out racism. It definitely pisses people off sometimes, but it’s something I feel very strongly about and not a smidge of guilt about. There was no reason for any of that Covington group to make race the subject of their response, other than they were on camera and wanted the attention they received. Maybe it was cute to some, but it was stupid and wrong. Granted, I definitely think kids should be forgiven for being dumb. We should forgive and forget. I don’t know why Munroe brings it up and names these people. I don’t see the point. If he thinks it’s good to be racist, there’s nothing I can say to change it, after all.

    Some lawfare adjustment will be needed before they get the millions of billions of bucks for their victim status.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  151. Agree with this dude 100 (and I have to admit the Braves Tomahawk chop whirring in the background on the TeeVee is one way how I define October)…but you don’t admit to it until you knock them out. http://sports.yahoo.com/braves-helsleys-concerns-chop-chant-seriously-222947221–mlb.html

    urbanleftbehind (5bec2f)

  152. Doonald Trump wasn’t holding U.S. aid hostage to a Ukrainian investigation of anything.

    Reading the texts and other information, it looks like the person who tied the two things together (military aid and an Ukrainian investigation about what hapepned in 2016 and also Burisma) was Gordon D. Sundland, the United States Ambassador to the European Union who was also a majot Republican fundraiser.

    Donald Trump had without giving anybody any kind of explanation placed a hold on the delivery of the U.S. Military to Ukraine and Gordon Sundland thought he might shake it loose if Ukraine did what Giuliani wanted.

    Kurt D. Volker, the State Department’s Special Envoy to Ukraine, who resigned on Friday September 27, 2019, the day after the whistleblower complaint naming him was made public, thought that, because there was almost unanimous support in Washington for the aid, the aid would be released anyway shortly, and it was not necessary to mention the hold to the Ukrainians.

    He was also very interested in disabusing Rudolph Giuliani of some of the ideas that he had and wanted there to be a meeting between Giuliani and a top advisor to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, Andrey Yermak. Volker resigned, he said, because he was no longer useful, but possibly also so that he would be free to testify to Congress without restrictions.

    William B. Taylor Jr, the United States chargé d’affaires ad interim for Ukraine since June 2019 – he had been brought in to take over after Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch left Ukraine and had also been Ambassador to Ukraine mostly during the Bush II Administration (June 2006 till May 2009)- didn’t like this idea of tying anything together and said on September 8 he would quit if there was some interview – it was maybe an interview at that stage – and the aid was not released.

    Gordon Sundland was telling everyone that he was not at all certain the aid would be released if Ukraine did what wanted. He was trying to get the idea across of linking aid and the Ukrainians , let’s say, making Giuliani happy.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  153. On Wednesday August 28, 2019 Politico published a story…

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dA4MoXkg2v8J:https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/28/trump-ukraine-military-aid-russia-1689531+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    saying that the military aid to Ukraine was being held up because Trump had asked his national security team to review it to ensure the money is being used in the best interest of the United States.

    That’s when Ukraine became aware there was a hitch.

    On Friday August 30 Gordon Sundland then told Senator Ron Johnson, chairman of a committee subcommittee with jurisdiction over the aid, that it was being held up because of a quid pro quo.

    The next day, Saturday August 31, 2019 called up President Trump (from Poland where he was schedled to meet Ukrainian President Zelensky the next day) andd asked him if it was true that the miitary aid was being made contingent on a new probe by the Ukrainian government. Preident trump flatly denied it.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-used-potential-meeting-to-pressure-ukraine-on-biden-texts-indicate-11570205661

    In the call, Mr. Trump flatly rejected the notion that he directed aides to make military aid to Ukraine contingent on a new probe by Kyiv, Mr. Johnson said.

    “He said, ‘Expletive deleted—No way. I would never do that. Who told you that?” the Wisconsin senator recalled in an interview Friday. Mr. Johnson said he told the president he had learned of the arrangement from Mr. Sondland.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  154. #108 — How is it even possible to spring that high into the air? Some of Simone’s “master classes” have popped up on YouTube when I’m watching French documentaries and whatnot, and a recurrent theme is that the secret is “squeeze your bum.” Somehow I suspect the real key is a little more complicated.

    Although she jumps about twice her height (4’8″), it looks even higher because her own body is the only visual reference you have to compare it with.

    Her incredibly compact size also helps her complete a revolution faster when she spins.

    Of course, for her size she also has incredibly powerful muscles, but having smaller mass means her muscles need to exert less force to create the same acceleration.

    Watch her climb this rope using only her arms – and that was three years ago, in 2016 before the Rio Olympics…

    For comparison, Olga Korbut was around 5′ and Nadia Comenechi was around 5’4″.

    Dave (1bb933)

  155. rcocean @25:

    2012 Asks Trump for Campaign Cash. Gets it.

    Romney got very little, although Michael Cohen claimed that Trump had been abig bundler and had contributed to Superpacs.

    https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2012/09/trumps-donations

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  156. There’s also a whistleblower who claimed something about Trump’s appointees trying to affect his audit, but the complaint dropped like a lead balloon.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/politics/trump-taxes-whistleblower.html

    Last week, in a long editorial, the New York Times said Trump shold not be impeached for tax fraud necause that’s not high crimes and misdemeanors. It actually gave aquite good definnition of high crimes and misdemeanors.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/27/opinion/trump-impeachment-new-york-times.html

    …The founders intended impeachment as a remedy for committing treason, bribery or high crimes and misdemeanors. While the exact meaning of the last phrase ultimately rests on the judgment of the House, lawmakers would be wise to construe it narrowly, as concerning the same type of conduct as treason and bribery: placing private above public interest.

    That is the difference between the justified effort to remove President Nixon from office, for misconduct that amounted to an assault on the integrity of the political system and the rights of private citizens, and the unjustified and unpopular impeachment of President Bill Clinton, for lying under oath about an affair. This is not the moment to seek to investigate Mr. Trump for tax fraud, unless it is tied to impeachable conduct.

    Adam Schiff followed a strategy to gain the Ukraine complaint maximum publicity.

    Which doesn’t make either of them valid actually.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  157. Trump has some theory about the DNC server that people are trying to figure out (what it is)

    Here are three newss articles that try to go into it:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/us/politics/crowdstrike-ukraine.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/29/us/politics/tom-bossert-trump-ukraine.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/politics/trump-ukraine-conspiracy.html

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  158. 159 – I watched videos of Olga and Nadia and Svetlana Khorkina recently. It’s interesting that Svetlana was once thought too tall, when she looks so elegant, especially on the floor. Given that gymnasts begin intense training at a very young age, I wonder how many are at some pointed filtered out as they get “too tall.”

    Radegunda (05af0f)

  159. Trump is now trying to cast blame for his ill-fated extortion call on Perry, saying it was Perry who told him to make the call. (Text messages clearly and unambiguously indicate it Giuliani who arranged the call.)

    https://www.axios.com/trump-blamed-rick-perry-call-ukraine-zelensky-8178447a-0374-4ac6-b321-a9454b0565d4.html

    Perry has met with Zelensky, the first time at his inauguration. He has had several meetings with Zelenski and other Ukraine officials, on the subject of Naftogaz, the state-owned natural gas company. Perry urged Zelenski to root out corruption and pushed for the new government to make changes in the state-run oil and gas company’s supervisory board—-(per Politico above) “a three-person entity that now includes Amos Hochstein, a former Biden aide and State Department energy official currently working for the U.S. liquefied natural gas company Tellurian. The other two members are Bruno Lescoeur, a former executive in charge of international affairs at the French energy company Engie, and Clare Spottiswoode, director of London-based advisory Gas Strategies.” Perry’s concern was that the board wasn’t sufficiently high level and connected to global energy companies, so he suggested the board expand and bring in higher-level, industry-connected people on an international basis, recommending (per Politico) Robert Bensh, a Houston oil executive currently with Pelicourt LLC, as well as Michael Bleyzer, head of a private equity firm based in Houston.

    The purpose of these negotiations was to help modernize Ukraine’s energy industry and make it less dependent on Russian fuel. Perry helped deliver a deal to export US coal to Ukraine, and he recently cemented a natural gas deal with Poland that would send supplies to Ukraine. Perry will be returning this week to follow up on the US-Poland-Ukraine energy cooperation deal.

    Again, per Politico: Among Perry’s numerous visits with Zelenksy and other Ukraine officials in the past year was a dinner with Zelensky, Trump’s son-law-Jared Kushner and other officials in June, according to a government photo taken by the U.S. of the event. The two met again the following month with Polish government officials to sign the energy cooperation agreement, according to news releases.

    Perry also attended the bilateral meeting with Zelenksy and Trump in New York on Sept. 25, a DOE spokesperson confirmed.

    The message from Perry to Zelensky, according to one person familiar with the discussions, was: “You’ve got to take steps on your anti-corruption efforts.”

    So it seems that Perry has been intimately involved in these discussions. Well, yeah, he’s the Secretary of Energy! He is the point man and the pitchman for US energy interests in Europe. Per Politico, he was one of the administration’s “three amigos” on Ukrainian policy, along with Kurt Volker, the U.S. special representative for the Ukraine conflict, and Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, as Sondland described their relationship in a July broadcast interview.

    And now he’s resigning, following Volker. Why? My guess is for the same reason Volker resigned, and it’s not so that he can testify before Congress. Either he feels he has done all he could do, or he feels he’s not allowed to do what he should do. In other words, they’re being pushed out by Giuliani.

    Again, per Politico:Two clients of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, Ukrainian-American Trump donors Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, had met with Naftogaz earlier this year to pitch themselves as suppliers of U.S. natural gas.

    That’s not weeding out corruption, it’s implanting it. Trump donors and Giuliani clients get natural gas leases in exchange for . . . ?

    Giuliani keeps intruding on policy matters he has absolutely nothing to do with. It was his idea to pressure Zelenski to switch the corruption investigation from Burisma to Biden. It was Sondland’s idea to use withholding military aid as coercion. And Trump bought into it wholesale. Giuliani made the arrangements, and Trump made the call.

    Perry had nothing to do with that at all. He was doing his job as Secretary of Energy, representing US interests and negotiating energy-cooperation deals with Ukraine, Poland, and other European countries, in order to help them modernize their industries and make them less dependent of Russia. That is what an American, especially a Texan, would do. Negotiate mutually beneficial agreements.

    That no doubt did not sit well with Putin–he wants a monopoly on the European energy market. That is exactly what all of his machinations have been about all these years, in Crimea, Ukraine, Syria, and Iran, to gain control of fuel supplies throughout Europe. Can’t have this pesky energy secretary from Texas, the largest producer oil and natural gas in the United States, interfere with all that, right? It’s all about geopolitics, which Trump is too ignorant to understand.

    So Perry is on the way out and being blamed for this whole impeachment imbroglio. What a nice way to leave office, under a cloud of shame. Perry did his job and did it well. Yes, he did encourage the president of the US to contact the president of Ukraine, and he did meet with the two of them in New York, but that was solely for negotiating mutually favorable energy-cooperation deals.

    There is absolutely no way that Perry would have agreed to allow an energy-cooperation deal be made contingent on political donations to a certain candidate–he most certainly never would have agreed to withholding military aid to a foreign ally to coerce an investigation into a domestic political opponent. Yet that is what Giuliani, Barr, Pompeo, and Sondland are doing, as are so many others, in the White House, the DOJ, the State Department, and the diplomatic corps.

    To quote from Hamlet: ‘Tis an unweeded garden that grows to seed / Things rank and gross in nature possess it merely.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  160. Pompeo on Ukraine inquiry…. “silly gotcha game”

    He is exactly one-third right.

    noel (f22371)

  161. Jim Powell (Forbes article. Feb 2013)

    “Dictatorships are often unexpected. They have arisen among prosperous, educated and cultured people who seemed safe from a dictatorship – in Europe, Asia and South America.”

    noel (f22371)

  162. @164 – They’ve got Trump now. The walls are closing in.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  163. How many more weeks of Ukraine-Trump? How many more articles and in-depth analysis going over every bit of minutia in the MSM, especially the NYT? I guess they’ll put “1619 and racism” on the back burner as the foremost “Get Trump defeated” narrative.

    Already I can see the Never-Trumper outrage machine is running out of gas. But just keep repeating:
    “The walls are closing in on Orange Man. We’ve got him this time”

    rcocean (1a839e)

  164. Throw down, Mitt. Challenge him. Given impeachment, no on else can. The time will come, soon, when we’ll need an alternative.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  165. @160 thanks for the clarification that Trump gave Romney money.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  166. There are lots of others I’d prefer, but they all seem to be avoiding the contest, hoping to pick up the pieces in 2024. Assuming there are any.

    Even Fiorina has opted out, going full Patterico on the GOP.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/carly-fiorina-trump-didnt-cause-dysfunction-in-politics-hes-the-result-of-all-the-dysfunction/2019/09/13/19312c58-d3f4-11e9-9343-40db57cf6abd_story.html

    Kevin M (19357e)

  167. @112. Hello? Trump came up with the insult “Rocketman” for the NK leader. Remember when he was insulting him every other day, and all the Never-trumpers were saying that was unpresidential? I guess that got forgotten. As for Putin. Why he should insult Putin? Do you think calling Putin names, accomplishes anything? I wonder if Never-Trumpers have any consistent principle other than “Orange man bad”

    rcocean (1a839e)

  168. Given that Trump’s average approval rating among R’s is 89-90%, why would any RINO think they could challenge him in the primaries? Besides, all they could do is echo the non-stop attacks in the MSM that has been attacking Trump day after day for 3 years AS PRESIDENT.

    There is no significant group of R voters looking to “Send a message” to Trump or looking for a new nominee. This isn’t 1976, its not even 1992. If Mitt runs, it will just confirm he’s a backstabbing RINO, more interested in his own ego, than in helping the Republican win power.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  169. Fiorina is another California loser Republican. The party is almost dead in that state. Fiorina never won anything, she just shoots her mouth off – like most Libera/moderate blue state R’s.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  170. Oh, that’s right, rcocean. Trump insulted Kim Jong-Il before he fawned over him.

    Then rcocean says… “As for Putin. Why he should insult Putin? Do you think calling Putin names, accomplishes anything?”

    I don’t suppose you see the inconsistency there?

    noel (f22371)

  171. “Orange man bad” is the equivalent of “You just don’t like him because he’s black” during the Obama years. It’s a way of saying that no matter how specific the criticism, it must all be merely pretext for a superficially based hatred or bigotry — as though it were the spray-tan that makes so many people dislike Trump.

    In fact, I wear orange. I’m an appreciator of Jason Orange. I’d like to visit Orange, France.

    When Trump descended the escalator in the summer of 2015, I didn’t immediately think “Bad orange man!” I really hadn’t paid much attention to him before. Then I began to observe what a deeply dishonest, narcissistic sociopath he is, and how bizarre his mental world. There’s a reason why the rate of turnover in this administration has been so exceptionally high.

    Radegunda (05af0f)

  172. In fact, I wear orange. I’m an appreciator of Jason Orange. I’d like to visit Orange, France.

    … and I live in Orange County!

    :)

    Dave (1bb933)

  173. Trump is so in the bag for Putin that he “harangued” Prime Minister May, saying that Putin was not culpable for the poisoning of uppity Russian defectors, despite the CCTV evidence.
    Trump is so in the bag for Putin that believed* in the QAnon conspiracy theory that Crowdstrike is a Ukrainian company that was responsible for the DNC hacks, despite the fact that the Mueller report established that Putin was culpable (note how nice the NYT is being, calling Trump’s lies “disprovable claims”). Ukraine is an ongoing victim of Putin and his fascist imperialism.
    Trump is so in the bag for Putin that he still refuses to accept that Putin initiated a “sweeping and systematic” effort to undermine the 2016 election.
    Trump is so in the bag for Putin that he has not directly said one critical word of the Russian dictator since the infamous Golden Escalator ride.
    Trump is so in the bag for Putin that, well, let’s just say that I could go on.
    * The NYT refers to a guy named George Eliason.

    George Eliason, an American journalist who lives in eastern Ukraine, where pro-Russian separatists fought Ukrainian forces, has written extensively about what he considers to be a “coup attempt” against President Trump involving American and Ukrainian intelligence agencies and CrowdStrike. He said he did not know if his writings for obscure websites might have influenced the president.
    “CrowdStrike and Ukrainian Intel are working hand in glove,” he wrote in an email. “Is Ukrainian Intelligence trying to invent a reason for the U.S. to take a hardline stance against Russia? Are they using CrowdStrike to carry this out?”
    Mr. Eliason and other purveyors of Ukraine conspiracies often point to the Atlantic Council, a research group in Washington, as the locus of the schemes. The Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Pinchuk has made donations to the council and serves on its international advisory board; Dmitri Alperovitch, CrowdStrike’s co-founder, who was born in Russia and came to the United States as a child, is an Atlantic Council senior fellow.
    That connection seems slender, but it may be the origin of Mr. Trump’s association of a wealthy Ukrainian with CrowdStrike.

    George Eliason is the same pro-Putin troll who somehow became a RedState diarist until I outed him for the pro-Putin troll that he is. That a$$hole Streiff unpublished my diary that showed Eliason’s true colors, but I cross-posted it here…
    http://www.theforvm *dot* org/pro-putin-troll-redstate-update
    Eliason’s diaries are still there but at least dickhead streiff revoked his diary-writing privileges.

    Paul Montagu (88b43e)

  174. 178. Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/6/2019 @ 11:18 am

    (note how nice the NYT is being, calling Trump’s lies “disprovable claims”).

    The New York Times is very fair. They give Trump the credit that he’s not making it all up. Quite different from some other sources.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  175. There are things about this that everybody is missing, and sometimes they assume make wrong assumptions to make things fit.

    The New York Times, although pretty good, still gets mixed up though.

    Yesterday…

    See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/world/europe/ukraine-prosecutor-trump.html

    …I saw that they are still holding on to the idea that when Donald Trump said to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky:

    I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that.

    he was talking about Yuriy Lutsenko,(!!) who lost his job this year.

    That construction is quite impossible. Trump was obviously talking about Viktor Shokin, wrongheaded as the idea of him being a very good prosecutor may be.

    I think the New York Times is holding to that idea because Democrats say that the Director of National Intelligence said that the whistleblower complaint is consistent with the call (he actually said it was aligned with it) and the complaint claims that Donald Trump praised Lutsenko and suggested that Zelensky keep him in his position, and there’s no way to give that claim, not a leg but even a finger, to stand on without interpreting that sentence to refer to Lutsenko.

    Trump did NOT ask Zelensky to keep Lutsenko in his job. And when Zelensky says:

    I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of a11, I understand and I’m knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September.
    Trump doesn’t have the slightest objection.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  176. “Investigative reporter” used to be a redundancy.

    Now it’s an oxymoron.

    mg (8f83ac)

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