Patterico's Pontifications

7/14/2019

President Trump Rallies A Fractured Democratic Party (UPDATE: Trump Doubles Down)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:53 pm



[guest post by Dana]

He just couldn’t help himself:

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Ugh. If you are going to tweet crap, at least be accurate in your crap-tweeting. Obviously Trump is referring to AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Talib, and Ilhan Omar when he says “Progressive Democrat Congresswomen”. But here’s the thing: AOC is from New York, Ayanna Pressley is from Chicago, and Rashida Talib is from Michigan. Only Ilhan Omar was born outside of the United States.

Unfortunately, as is so often the case with President Trump, his lack of discretion and clumsiness has given the Democrats a perfect opening on several fronts. While some may view his tweets as part of a clever strategy to outfox the Democrats, what he has really done instead is to open himself up to ridiculous accusations by Democrats that he wants to banish congressional women of color because they are not sufficiently pro-America, and has reminded Democrats that he is their enemy, not each another. With both of these things, he has not only given Democrats ammunition to use to their advantage but he has also given them a big reason to come together in a renewed sense of unity, just as Nancy Pelosi hoped would happen. Better to have sat back, and quietly let the Democrats eat their own. I’ll give him this though: He may have been clever in seeing this an opportunity to throw his base of ardent, die-hard MAGA loyalists something to rally around because this sort of red meat is right up their alley. And we know they will support and defend him at every turn, no matter how much they have to lie about it, whether directly or by omission:

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(Read the sentence before his highlighted one.)

This is from today’s Fox and Friends, cheering on the President’s tweets and ignoring the inaccuracies of his claims and the white-nationalistic tones:

What Trump missed though was that along with his base rallying around his distorted cries of “America,” so too is Nancy Pelosi. But for different reasons: She is using his tweets to effectively shift the focus off of her team’s infighting to Trump’s white America:

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And if you’re inclined to give President Trump the benefit of the doubt that there was a bigger strategy in play with his tweets, you can chew this over (but you’ll have to ignore the sheer offensiveness of his words to do buy into it.)

These Trump tweets are sneaky (and thus probably not written by Trump).

To his base, they simply represent the white-nationalism they want to hear.

But they also dare the House Dem leadership to offer full-throated support for AOC/Omar/Tlaib, with whom they’ve been feuding…

If the leadership leaps to the defense of AOC et al, they look weak. Dems will say “Why didn’t you support these Congresswomen a few days ago?”

Plus, this commits Dems to support Congresswomen whom Trump and his people believe are extremist enough to alienate lots of voters.

But if the leadership stays silent and refuses to jump to the defense of AOC et al, they look like they’re collaborating with open white-nationalism for the sake of a petty intra-party feud!

In other words, these tweets are aimed at putting the Dem leadership in a bind.

You can really see both an ideology and a strategy being built around Trumpism – a combination of trolling, white-nationalism, and attempts to exploit divisions on the left.

I predict this approach will outlast Trump…

It is possible to both strongly disagree with the politics and viewpoints of these four Democratic Congresswomen as well as strongly disapprove of the President’s trash talk.

UPDATE: President Trump doubles down on his earlier tweets:

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(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

162 Responses to “President Trump Rallies A Fractured Democratic Party (UPDATE: Trump Doubles Down)”

  1. Here we go.

    Dana (bb0678)

  2. Friendly advice for commenters. Note where Dana writes:

    While some may view his tweets as part of a clever strategy to outfox the Democrats, what he has really done instead is to open himself up to ridiculous accusations by Democrats that he wants to banish congressional women of color because they are not sufficiently pro-America. . .

    Dana (and I for that matter) agree that President Trump isn’t trying to exile AOC and the Mean Girls, so please spare us that debate. What I think Dana is saying (and I wholeheartedly agree) is that Trump in his usual way provided his opponents with an amazing opportunity to demagogue his words by using ill-conceived language, and also breaking the long-held idea that when your opponent is beating himself you are best off staying out of his (or her) way. If you want to claim that he is engaging in (what are we on now?) eight-third level chess then OK, make that point, but it seems to a lot of us that we had the Democrats on the rope but the President somehow rang the bell to end the round.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  3. and has reminded Democrats that he is their enemy

    Doesn’t Trump know that it is NeverTrumpers responsibility to remind Democrats this?

    BuDuh (ddd6a8)

  4. it seems to a lot of us that we had the Democrats on the rope

    Does the group “we” include Trump? IOW, how much credit for putting the Dems on the rope goes to Trump?

    BuDuh (ddd6a8)

  5. IOW, how much credit for putting the Dems on the rope goes to Trump?

    Oh a whole lot. Without Trump, we probably wouldn’t have had Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, Congresswoman Omar, Congresswoman Tlaib. . . .

    JVW (54fd0b)

  6. ?

    BuDuh (ddd6a8)

  7. … and the GOP silence is deafening.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


  8. Orange Muppet Energy
    @sunnyright

    Yes I get it, Trump could take a s**t on Old Glory and set himself on fire while dancing the tarantella in a clown suit and some of you would assume it’s brilliant 97-dimension chess. It’s not. He was blatantly factually wrong and destroyed a good period of messaging for himself.
    __ _

    Stephen Miller
    @redsteeze
    Trump has always been an expert at walking over his own d**k. It’s the most consistent thing about his presidency.

    _

    harkin (58d012)

  9. Where’s Lindsey? Where’s Mitch? And you too, Tedtoo? Why no condemnation from “principled” pugs like you?! Ivory Soap really is 99.44% pure, ain’t it, fellas.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. Where’s Lindsey? Where’s Mitch? And you too, Tedtoo? Why no condemnation from “principled” pugs like you?! Ivory Soap really is 99.44% pure, ain’t it, fellas.

    I get that politics is a 24/7 game, but if those aforementioned three have better things to do on a Summer Sunday than react to the President’s tweets then I will cut them some slack. They are also hopefully too shrewd to fan the flames by buying into the dumb notion that Trump is trying to exile the four. If I were them I would get around to issuing a pro forma statement on Monday affirming that these women are indeed Americans with all of the rights and privileges therein, and then let the Democrats get back to their Championship Woke-Off.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  11. @11. Slack???? Oh right; it’s Bastille Day.

    Slack, hell.

    Those rodents craved to be on watch for that ‘3 AM phone call…’ thingy. The silence says it all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. Wheeeeeeeeeeee! Flyboard steals the show at this year’s Bastille Day celebrations in Paris!

    France put one over on your parade, Donald.

    Literally.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. ‘Ein Volk; Ein Amerika; Ein Trump’ cries the enablers.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  14. Not merely “possible,” Dana, but the wise thing to do. Good post.

    Beldar (a5097b)

  15. I got nothing… Trump definitely dug a hole here.

    I’m seeing many breaking the 1st rule of holes still…

    le sigh…

    whembly (4605df)

  16. Best headline on this rake attack:

    As Democrats Fight a Civil War, Trump Strips Naked and Runs Onto the Battlefield

    “All Trump has to do is play to his strengths, i.e. the economy and immigration, and he wins. But he just can’t stop stepping on his own feet. When your enemies are blasting each other, you don’t step in between them and beg to be shot in head. Yet, that’s exactly what Trump did here.

    Instead of another week of AOC and Pelosi bad mouthing each other, we get a return to a unified Democrat front and multiple news cycles calling Republicans racists.

    If Trump loses in 2020, it won’t be Paul Ryan’s fault, the Republican party’s fault, or the media’s fault. It’ll be a defeat that was wholly self-inflicted because he refused to practice any semblance of self-control when it comes to his personality. No one with an economy this good should be trailing Joe Biden by ten points or languishing with an approval rating in the mid-40s. Trump is though, not because of his policies, but because he’s constantly stepping on landmines when all he has to do is stay out of the minefield.”

    https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2019/07/14/democrats-fight-civil-war-trump-strips-naked-runs-flailing-onto-battlefield/
    _

    harkin (58d012)

  17. It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to say something and remove all doubt.

    Gryph (08c844)

  18. https://www.theepochtimes.com/ice-releases-report-highlighting-dangers-of-sanctuary-city-policies_3001885.html

    Looks like Trump has reminded the Democrats that he is their enemy, again.

    BuDuh (ddd6a8)

  19. @17. Please. This is merely generational. Both parties are at fault for this; hence a fairly wide generation gap, exacerbated by accelerated media methods and associated platforms. [Remember the ‘Young Guns?’ LOL] The hangers-on never know when to leave the stage.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. shouldn’t she have deported by now, for fraud, I know only republican congressman get indicted, but seriously,

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/ilhan-omar-illegal-immigrants-are-dumb.php

    narciso (d1f714)

  21. … and yet another reason why leaving the Republican Party after 40 years was the right thing to do.

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. Or, Dave, yet another reason to recognize that people better than Trump will be needed to rebuild and restore the party once Trump is gone, and that if they all give up now, they’re ceding the future of one of the only two major parties to the Trumpkins.

    You see a glass half-empty, my friend. But we’ve had this discussion before, and when you reassert your position (which I stipulate is held in good faith), I’ll remind you of mine.

    Beldar (a5097b)

  23. It’s possible – and rational – to be offended both by the words and attitudes of “the Squad,” and by Trump’s casual assumption, or insinuation, that people of non-European ancestry are essentially alien to America. Trumpsters, as usual, are pretending not to see what’s right in front of their eyes. Or else they agree with Trump’s racialist definition of the real America.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  24. @22. Will give you that, Dave. It’s Trump’s party now; 90% or so support within. And if you’re still a card carrying, dues paying member these days- you’re an enabler; part of the problem, not the solution.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. lets consider the important things, not the incidentals

    That’s just the thing tho – Trump’s idiotic tweet gives the msm a complete misdirection card to ignore the fact an Antifa nitwit went Rambo on an ICE facility (even worse, that the Antifa nuts are calling him a martyr).

    harkin (58d012)

  26. @17. That smacks of Red State desperation. Thing is, these so-called ‘polls’ aren’t necessarily believable anymore. They certainly were off in 2016. Responders aren’t necessarily going to cop to some pollster who has contacted them- hence already has some data on them- that they’ll be voting for Trump– especially for free. Remember, there were ‘only a few Nazis in Germany.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. Biden was able to wrangle 200 people in a new Hampshire dinner, have you even heard of that event.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  28. @29.That many?!?! Musta been the ‘Early Bird Special’ crowd. The all-you-can-eat-shrimp always does it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. Trump’s idiotic tweet gives the msm a complete misdirection card to ignore the fact an Antifa nitwit went Rambo on an ICE facility

    They were already ignoring it.

    I guess it is possible that they are ignoring the ongoing ICE raids, because of his idiotic tweet, allowing ICE agents to have the element of surprise. The media is gullible that way.

    BuDuh (ddd6a8)

  30. Complicit, remember that data analysis that Dorsey banned from twitter.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  31. Why are you ALWAYS falling for the MSM trick? Trump said “…where they ORIGINALLY. came from” – He’s not saying that these daughters of immigrants are not US Citizens. And unlike some here, I’m sick and tired of this “Immigrants are better than Native born Americans” nonsense. No they are not. Frankly, i think Trump should’ve kept his mouth shut and let AOC and her friends slam Old Lady Nancy. When your enemy is destroying themselves, stay out.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  32. I should have read the whole post before commenting. Yes, Trump’s tweet probably is a clever way to make Nancy support AOC and her gang!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  33. mr. donald the president also known as trump is a very stable genius who plays 1024 dimensional chess and that’s why i love him

    and he never walks over his own dick because it’s too short so there

    nk (dbc370)

  34. Trump should’ve kept the focus on Omar and that motherfvcker Rancida Taliban.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. Er, Tilapia

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. Even robocop 3, didnt predict how far Conyers would take Detroit down to. Sans the robot samurai.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  37. Their defenders first admit they aren’t fond of America and then dig deep for the anti-Americanism required to defend the excrement the four spew daily.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. Yes, Trump’s tweet probably is a clever way to make Nancy support AOC and her gang!

    By telling them to go back to their homeland, those far foreign lands of Kansas, Ohio, Detroit, New York, Chicago, and one who immigrated as a child from Somalia.

    Details, details. Was there supposed to be an expectation that Donald Trump, the known moron, wouldn’t say something moronic, when he said something? He could say something non-moronic on Twitter probably, well maybe, in the fullness of time, it could happen.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  39. 33. Nice try, but “who originally came from” does not mean “whose parents or grandparents came from.” When we know that people were born in America, we do not ordinarily say “they came from” a different country – unless perhaps we see them as the wrong kind of people.

    There’s very little chance that Trump would have made such a statement about people whose parents immigrated from Ireland or Germany or Slovenia, regardless of the views expressed by those people. And virtually every Trump apologist probably knows it.

    And who has actually said that “immigrants are better than Native-born Americans”?

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  40. 40. No matter how moronic Trump’s pronouncements are, the faithful will always claim they spring from a higher genius that only a good Trumper is smart enough to understand.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  41. By telling them to go back to their homeland, those far foreign lands of Kansas, Ohio, Detroit, New York, Chicago, and one who immigrated as a child from Somalia.

    He said where they ‘Originally came from”. They are daughters of immigrants, I think. Were any of them foreign born? So, your criticism is wrong.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  42. @ rcocean,

    And unlike some here, I’m sick and tired of this “Immigrants are better than Native born Americans” nonsense. No they are not.

    Can you show me where someone has said this?

    Dana (bb0678)

  43. The Press will bring this up tomorrow, and Trump will say just what I’m saying now. And then the MSM Will have headlines: “Trump retracts racist slur on AOC and gang” – LOL.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  44. Can you show me where someone has said this?

    Have you read Brent Stephens of the New York Times?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  45. You said:

    And unlike some here, I’m sick and tired of this “Immigrants are better than Native born Americans” nonsense. No they are not.

    Question, who here said this? You’re response to who here?

    Have you read Brent Stephens of the New York Times?

    How is here, there? It’s definitely not here, it might even not be there, but regardless of here or there, you’re…squirrel…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  46. She is not appreciative of the opportunities she has received, frankly neither is Pelosi, but that’s another story.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  47. I have. Because you said “unlike some here,” it made me think that you were referring to some here as in, at Patterico’s Pontifications.

    Dana (bb0678)

  48. Trump thinks immigrants are better than “Native-born Americans”. He married two of them.

    nk (dbc370)

  49. His mother was one, too. I wish he’d go back to Scotland, where he can wear a skirt all he wants.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. rcocean,

    Preemptive strike for future reference: I have never said that I believe that immigrants are better than native-born Americans, nor have I ever implied it.

    Dana (bb0678)

  51. But nk, his family (and wives) are the right kind of immigrants.

    Dana (bb0678)

  52. Tired of the truth are you?

    Immigrants disparaging the U.S. Never gets old does it?

    Citizens of the U.S. are tired of foreigners telling us we are subpar (racists!)

    Please though, keep assuring us we are deplorable. No better way to re-elect Trump.

    Thanks in advance.

    lee (f8d029)

  53. Scotland is a collection of socialist layabout, they used to be the vanguard of the empire.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  54. He said where they ‘Originally came from”. They are daughters of immigrants, I think. Were any of them foreign born? So, your criticism is wrong
    Pressley was raised in Chicago, so crime ridden might well apply, but I think certain people here can testify that it is not a foreign country.
    AOC was born in the Bronx. Trump was born in the Bronx, too, so he probably would object to having it named a foreign country. Although it would put his interest in Obama’s birth certificate in a new light.
    Tlaid is US born. Her family is Palestinian, so “broken state” has a valid connection, totally drowned in Trump’s logorrhea.
    Omar was born in Somalia, so she’s the only one Trump’s verbiage actually fits.

    Kishnevi (46054d)

  55. Scotland is a collection of socialist layabout, they used to be the vanguard of the empire.

    Yes, but mostly because of all the Scots who wanted to get away from Scotland…

    Kishnevi (46054d)

  56. Scotland is a collection of socialist layabout, they used to be the vanguard of the empire.

    True, but everything sounds better with a Scottish accent. Everything.
    (Ok, it’s also true of a musical Irish lilt…)

    Dana (bb0678)

  57. 56- you think any of them have loyalty to the founders vision for the constitution?

    Me? I think they hate it, and want to establish something foreign. But do defend. You show yourself with every comment..

    lee (f8d029)

  58. That’s why they are clamoring to stay in the EU, you want to know how Tories are treated up there,

    Narciso (7adc33)

  59. lee,

    I’ll quote myself in case you missed it: “It is possible to both strongly disagree with the politics and viewpoints of these four Democratic Congresswomen as well as strongly disapprove of the President’s trash talk.”

    Dana (bb0678)

  60. So, yay’all do know the difference between race and nation, right?

    Methinks you sell the average voter short thinking they are dumber than you.

    lee (f8d029)

  61. RIP stephanie niznik.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  62. Trashtalk? Yeah, we’ve been called every name in the book. Heaven forbid we ever say anything remotely impolite ever…

    lee (f8d029)

  63. Trashtalk? Yeah, we’ve been called every name in the book. Heaven forbid we ever say anything remotely impolite ever

    Who is this “we” you speak of, do you have a mouse in your pocket?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  64. Knock off the personal insults, lee.

    Dana (bb0678)

  65. Their objection was so sincere, they would turn on a dime,

    Narciso (7adc33)

  66. 54: People born in this country are not “foreigners,” regardless of where their parents were born. A judge who was born in Chicago is not “Mexican.” He’s American.

    Trump imputes foreignness on the basis of ethnicity, and his loyal fans say he’s only giving voice to what “we” really think.

    It’s disgusting, but alas it isn’t as shocking anymore as it should be.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  67. Methinks you sell the average voter short thinking they are dumber than you.

    Meanwhile, Trump apologists keep saying that critics don’t have the mental capacity to see the genius in everything Trump says or does, no matter how manifestly nutty it is.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  68. The left operates in bad faith, so you decide to follow suit, as the seeds of their perfidy were seen yesterday in Seattle, ths only degree is the subject wasnt more technically proficient. The sneers about a tiny handful of adjudicated scofflaws who will finally be held accountable. But this fusion garbage that’s ever green,

    Narciso (7adc33)

  69. 41. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/14/2019 @ 5:15 pm

    And who has actually said that “immigrants are better than Native-born Americans”?

    I actually said something like that. And they are. And Donald Trump knows that because he’s a New Yorker.

    Now they are not better than anybody. But they are better than the people who would otherwise be living where they are.

    Of course, I’m talking about ordinary people, not politcians who hooked up with the wrong American crowd.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  70. Here’s the New York Times saying that immigrants are better than native born Americans: (although actually not wanting to say that, because that means that some other sub-populations has a disproportionate number of bad, mean, people. sometimes people don;t want to follow the full implications of their research, like the way nobdoy talks about how the measles vaccine prevents autism – it also partially undoes other vaccinations.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/30/upshot/crime-immigration-myth.html

    In a large-scale collaboration by four universities, led by Robert Adelman, a sociologist at the State University of New York at Buffalo, researchers compared immigration rates with crime rates for 200 metropolitan areas over the last several decades. The selected areas included huge urban hubs like New York and smaller manufacturing centers less than a hundredth that size, like Muncie, Ind., and were dispersed geographically across the country.

    According to data from the study, a large majority of the areas have many more immigrants today than they did in 1980 and fewer violent crimes. The Marshall Project extended the study’s data up to 2016, showing that crime fell more often than it rose even as immigrant populations grew almost across the board.

    And yet the argument that immigrants bring crime into America has driven many of the policies enacted or proposed by the administration so far: restrictions to entry, travel and visas; heightened border enforcement; plans for a wall along the border with Mexico…

    But while the immigrant population in [Orange County, California] the county has more than doubled since 1980, overall violent crime has decreased by more than 50 percent.

    There’s a similar pattern in two other places where Mr. Trump has recently feuded with local leaders: Oakland, Calif., and Lawrence, Mass. He described both cities as breeding grounds for drugs and crime brought by immigrants. But Oakland, like Orange County, has had increasing immigration and falling crime. In Lawrence, though murder and robbery rates grew, overall violent crime rates still fell by 10 percent.

    These people did not attend failing public schools. Better not to go to school at all than to go to certain kinds of public schools. It;s been shown that high school dropouts, in certain communities, are less likely to commit crimes than people who stay enrolled in school.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  71. Trump know enough people have only a vague idea of the background of these four Congresswoman so that they’ll think that what’s true for Ilhan Omar is true for all of them. Ad it’s totally unfar to say that abiut Ilhan Omar. Nobody from Somalia can fix Somalia. Only foreign troops can fix Somalia. And the same thing goes really for El Salvador, Honduras and Guatamela – and Mexico for that matter. You’ve got to have people there whose families are not in that country. Money won’t fix those countries.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  72. Preemptive strike for future reference: I have never said that I believe that immigrants are better than native-born Americans, nor have I ever implied it.

    OK so I re-read my comment and I apologize. I started out with “You” and then switched to “some here” by which I meant some of the more Left-wing commentators and people in general. So, that was unclear.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  73. Dana, can you please highlight a “personal insult” I have leveled?

    Of course those against Trump supporters are never called out…

    lee (f8d029)

  74. Here’s Burt stephens in the New York Times attacking native born Americans:

    In the matter of immigration, mark this conservative columnist down as strongly pro-deportation. The United States has too many people who don’t work hard, don’t believe in God, don’t contribute much to society and don’t appreciate the greatness of the American system.

    They need to return whence they came.

    I speak of Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations. Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history, they are the stagnant pool in which our national prospects risk drowning.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  75. 56. Kishnevi (46054d) — 7/14/2019 @ 5:53 pm

    Omar was born in Somalia, so she’s the only one Trump’s verbiage actually fits.

    The part about the government being a total catastrophe, if they even have a government at all, also fits. They country is actually split in pieces, one part of which is actually governed fairly well. Somalia is not really that much fo a crime infested place – that part may have been fixed starting in 2013, but it’s got terrorists.

    She’s a refugee and is sort of siding with persecutors, what with her head covering which she even said is not for religious reasons.

    Trump is just engaged in demagogery. Which Democrats will not directly challenge.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  76. 76. Bret Stephens is being a bit satirical, but of course it’s a bit true. More true than the opposite claim.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  77. You see a glass half-empty, my friend. But we’ve had this discussion before, and when you reassert your position (which I stipulate is held in good faith), I’ll remind you of mine.

    I don’t see much restoring or reclaiming going on.

    I see the Republican Party cheering for this piece of sewage, defending him, and doing everything they can to re-elect him.

    Less than 1% of the Republicans in Congress have repudiated him.

    So I would say optimism appears rather fanciful from where I sit.

    Dave (55e817)

  78. And unlike some here, I’m sick and tired of this “Immigrants are better than Native born Americans” nonsense. No they are not.

    Now, that I re-read this again… LOL. I remember what I was saying. Namely “unlike some here” I’m “sick and tired” of the “Immigrants are better than Native born Americans nonsense“.

    So, I’m pointing out that “unlike some here” I’m sick of the native-born American bashing. That is inaction in the face of those bashing native born Americans. I’m NOT accusing “some here” of saying “Immigrants are better than the Native born”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  79. @ lee, #62:

    So, yay’all do know the difference between race and nation, right?

    What does this have to do with the OP? Trump specifically talks about the four as “originally [coming] from countries…”

    He may be saying that because of their races, but the fact still is, he’s only right about one of four.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  80. Bret Stephens is being a bit satirical, but of course it’s a bit true. More true than the opposite claim

    Being a “bit satirical” is like being a “bit Pregnant”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  81. I also notice Burt Stephens himself is an immigrant. Why doesn’t the NYT make that clear? He grew up in Mexico and is a triple-citizen of the USA, Mexico, and Israel. Just another reason its not “satire”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  82. @rcocean

    This is the link you want:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/only-mass-deportation-can-save-america.html

    On point after point, America’s nonimmigrants are failing our country. Crime? A study by the Cato Institute notes that nonimmigrants are incarcerated at nearly twice the rate of illegal immigrants, and at more than three times the rate of legal ones.

    Educational achievement? Just 17 percent of the finalists in the 2016 Intel Science Talent Search — often called the “Junior Nobel Prize” — were the children of United States-born parents. At the Rochester Institute of Technology, just 9.5 percent of graduate students in electrical engineering were nonimmigrants.

    Religious piety — especially of the Christian variety? More illegal immigrants identify as Christian (83 percent) than do Americans (70.6 percent), a fact right-wing immigration restrictionists might ponder as they bemoan declines in church attendance.

    Business creation? Nonimmigrants start businesses at half the rate of immigrants, and accounted for fewer than half the companies started in Silicon Valley between 1995 and 2005. Overall, the share of nonimmigrant entrepreneurs fell by more than 10 percentage points between 1995 and 2008, according to a Harvard Business Review study…

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  83. 81- you are right of course(in you view), I’d vote for them if I were you.

    lee (f8d029)

  84. Bret Stephens doesn’t say the U.S. has, or would have if Donald Trump has his way, the worst immigration policy.

    That’s Europe, and especially Italy (thanks to Russian interference, which he doesn’t point out or understand.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/05/opinion/immigration-trump-southern-border.html

    The secret to Europe’s migration policy is outsourcing. In 2016, the European Union agreed to pay Turkey six billion euros to stanch the outflow of Syrian refugees and other migrants who had overwhelmed Europe the previous summer. It worked, in the sense that it made the crisis less visible and therefore made the sense of responsibility, and the undercurrent of guilt, go away.

    [He doesn’t point out is that what Turkey is doing is shooting and killing Syrians crossing the Turkish border. Meanwhile Europe haplessly waits as Syria and Russia get ready to eliminate the last safe haven in Syria for a lot of people. The on;y thing that stops Syria is tha Europe or Turkey might reverse its policy, or have abad opinion about Russia.]

    More:

    In February 2017, a center-left Italian government, with E.U. support, struck a deal with the U.N.-recognized government in Tripoli to stand up a Libyan coast guard tasked with intercepting migrants, while also sharply limiting the ability of N.G.O.’s like Sea Watch to assist endangered migrants.

    The policy has worked only too well: The Libyans have stopped tens of thousands of migrants from coming over. They’ve also done little to stop many of them from drowning. And the migrants they’ve seized on the high seas have in many cases been sent to detention facilities that are tantamount to death sentences…

    …On Tuesday, one of those detention centers, near a military base in a suburb of Tripoli, was attacked in a rebel airstrike. At least 50 people were killed.

    Those deaths may not be on Europe’s conscience, but they are, at least in part, a consequence of its policies. As Mathieu von Rohr wrote in a Spiegel editorial, “Today’s migration policies in the European Union are even more brutal than those pursued by Donald Trump.”

    By the way, they should be on Europe’s conscience, and may be eventually.

    Now Bret Stephens ends his column with nonsense.

    He says “the ugliness of current European policy is an outgrowth of its lax policies four years ago.” No, it’s the outgrowth of Russian disinformation (some of which crirculated in the United States as well) and the subsidizing of right wing anti-immigrant parties.

    Worse nonsense is that a sustained effort by the United States to reduce crime, improve governance and facilitate economic growth in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala – or nation building – would work to stop emigration from those countries. He said the U>S> did similar national building in Colombia.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  85. Trump is only right about one of the four, but his argument isn’t right even for her – it’s a total non sequitor for one thing.

    Sammy Finkelman (5c3ef7)

  86. That is inaction in the face of those bashing native born American

    Step back a minute. Who exactly are “native born Americans”? On the face of it that’s a pretty large and diverse group that includes most of the people here, as well as Colin Kaepernik, Charles Schumer, David Duke, Mitch McConnell, and Barron Trump. Lots of people bash some native born Americans all the time. For instance, Donald Trump does it all the time. So does Maxine Waters.

    But I don’t know of anyone who bashes “native born Americans” per se. Unless you are using the phrase as a stand-in for a specific part of “native born Americans”…

    Kishnevi (46054d)

  87. @ rcocean, #76:

    Responding to your quote of Bret Stephens:

    I speak of Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations. Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history, they are the stagnant pool in which our national prospects risk drowning.

    Umm…but this is true. I interact with these people every day. Dozens of them. Of all races, all religions, both genders, and from all across the political spectrum. The only mistake Stephens makes is the same one that Trump made, and the same one you were defending — the idea that these people can be returned “from whence they came.” Their ancestors may have come from whence, but unfortunately, they come from here. And their apathy and ignorance is eroding the foundations of our liberties.

    I’ll go further than Mr. Stephens. Not only am I in favor of deporting these anti-American people to any country that will take them, I am in favor of admitting ANY immigrants from ANY nation on Earth in ANY numbers — provided only that they can demonstrate a knowledge of, and love for, this country’s freedoms, history, and government.

    Or at the very least, I’d be in favor of instituting a civics test that citizens must be able to pass in order to vote. That would help a bit, too.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  88. @ lee, #81:

    81- you are right of course(in you view), I’d vote for them if I were you.

    What does my view have to do with anything? Either Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a native-born American or she is not. And unfortunately, she is.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  89. Are you really an American if you hate the USA?

    I guess you are still the wife, even if you hate your husband.

    I wouldn’t want her around though…

    lee (f8d029)

  90. “Are you really an American if you hate the USA?”

    Yes.

    Also, they don’t hate the USA, they hate your USA, and you hate theirs.

    Davethulhu (bc6fa6)

  91. A Blunder Of Epic Proportions

    “Regular readers know that I am a fan of President Trump, and more often than not, a fan of his use of social media. But today he committed the worst unforced error of his presidency, one that we will hear about from the Democrats from now until November 2020…….

    ……The Democrats have been self-destructing, with the progressives denouncing Nancy Pelosi and other members of the party’s leadership as racists. That conflict has dominated the news, and I am sure Trump is right that Nancy Pelosi would be happy to work out travel arrangements to get rid of the Squad. But now she won’t have to. Trump’s attack on the Squad was so foolish that I would assume it to be a case of drunk-tweeting, except that the President doesn’t drink….

    ……Note that the Associated Press accuses Trump of “starkly injecting race into his criticism of liberal Democrats.” But Trump didn’t say a word about race. It was the AP that starkly injected race into the controversy. Which, of course, doesn’t excuse the single stupidest act of Trump’s presidency.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/a-blunder-of-epic-proportions.php
    _

    harkin (58d012)

  92. From the Powerline link:

    But Trump’s animal instincts come into play here. With a wedge opening up between the Democratic Party leadership and the noisy Four Freshmen reps (and I can guarantee that AOC is the least popular member of the House Democratic caucus), Trump has now forced Pelosi and every other Democrat to come to their defense, elevating their profile further and cementing them as the authoritative face of the Democratic Party. What’s the downside of that?

    Yep

    BuDuh (ddd6a8)

  93. This is from a staff writer at the New Yorker. It’s interesting to see how the comments of both Trump and Pelosi will be shaped and framed next week.

    If you’re keeping score, the House Democratic leadership and the racist xenophobic President of the United States are attacking… the same 4 Democrats.

    Trump and Dems attacks on #thesquad betrays their concern with the same set of (white) voters. And points again to the ridiculous idea that people of color are the primary beneficiaries of “identity politics.”

    Dana (bb0678)

  94. President Trump doubles down:

    So sad to see the Democrats sticking up for people who speak so badly of our Country and who, in addition, hate Israel with a true and unbridled passion. Whenever confronted, they call their adversaries, including Nancy Pelosi, “RACIST.” Their disgusting language…..

    ….and the many terrible things they say about the United States must not be allowed to go unchallenged. If the Democrat Party wants to continue to condone such disgraceful behavior, then we look even more forward to seeing you at the ballot box in 2020!

    I’ve updated the post accordingly.

    Dana (bb0678)

  95. The Rule of Law determines whether one is an American citizen, a non-citizen legally in America, or otherwise.

    Anyone can have his or her subjective, pulled from their butt, opinion about who else is or isn’t a “real American,” but it’s never more than an opinion. Neither lee, nor Donald Trump, nor anyone else gets to decide that which is reserved for the Rule of Law, because this is a nation of laws, not of men.

    Enough false equivalencies, lee. They’re tiresome and beneath you — in, yes, my opinion.

    Beldar (a5097b)

  96. @ Dana (#96): It’s not an “unforced error,” as suggested by John Hinderaker of Power Line. It’s a deliberate campaign strategy, a gamble that such provocative and reckless language will, on a net basis, generate enthusiasm sufficient to repeat Trump’s electoral college win in 2020, rather than benefiting his opponent on the same state-by-state net-change basis. And you’re correct to call it “doubling down.”

    This is, in other words, today’s hipshot calculation by Donald J. Trump of whether today’s outrage is or isn’t good for the Trump Brand. Not for the GOP; not for Americans; but for the Trump Brand, aka Trump himself, aka the only thing he’s ever actually loved and cared about in his life. This is entirely consistent with my Trump Universal Solvent that explains every otherwise inexplicable decision he makes or action he takes. Every other possible explanation is based on a false premise — that he actually cares about anything other than Trump — and therefore will eventually fail to explain something he’s said or done, and therefore will result in apparent contradictions.

    Beldar (a5097b)

  97. By calling this “Trump’s animal instincts,” John Hinderaker unfairly maligns animals.

    Beldar (a5097b)

  98. @97.’… this is a nation of laws, not men.’

    Meh. Not lately.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  99. @50. Keep in mind, nk, Ukraine girls really knock him out; leave the West behind. And Moscow girls make him sing and shout; And Georgia’s always on his mi-I-mi-mi-mind.

    ‘Course when they take him to their daddy’s farm, he’ll want to turn it into a golf course.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. I also notice Burt Stephens himself is an immigrant.

    He was born in NYC, therefore Stephens is a native-born American just like you, Tlaib and Ocasio-Cortez.
    No one in this thread has said it, but I’ll say that Trump’s comments that these brown-skinned women going back to their countries of origin was objectively racist.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  101. @95. ‘The Squad’‘The Young Guns’‘The Gang of Eight’… Sheesh, with ‘The Apprentice’ President, America’s government looks more and more like a lousy season of bad shows on NBC.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. @98 I agree Beldar.

    What urban poverty and alienation from the modern economy have long been for the Democratic Party (a tool to marshal a monolithic core of voters by demagoguing a problem while all the while making it worse), immigration and white alienation from the modern economy are now to Trump’s GOP.

    For most of my life, there was one party whose leadership resisted those toxic, scorched earth tactics and stood for something better. Not anymore. What we’re witnessing is the new normal in American politics.

    Dave (1bb933)

  103. America’s government looks more and more like a lousy season of bad shows on NBC.

    You must be so proud.

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. No one in this thread has said it, but I’ll say that Trump’s comments that these brown-skinned women going back to their countries of origin was objectively racist.

    I think I’ve implied it. He assumed, on the basis of ethnicity, that they are foreigners. And it’s quite unlikely that he would have made a similar assumption about someone who’s blondish.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  105. @104. You haven’t lived long./ @105. Yep; it’s a win/win.

    You must be so sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. Buffalo Bill ’s
    defunct
    who used to
    ride a watersmooth-silver
    stallion
    and break onetwothreefourfive pigeonsjustlikethat
    Jesus

    he was a handsome man
    and what i want to know is
    how do you like your blue-eyed boy
    Mister Death

    –e. e. cummings

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  107. “No one in this thread has said it, but I’ll say that Trump’s comments that these brown-skinned women going back to their countries of origin was objectively racist.”
    Paul Montagu (fc91e5) — 7/14/2019 @ 9:41 pm

    Anti-semitism in Congress has a diversity problem. An out-reach program to encourage white anti-Semites to run would help anti-anti-Semites appear less like those Covington kid smirky racists.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  108. @105. Postscript: there’s even a promo:

    ‘N-B-C: Proud as a peacock.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. An out-reach program to encourage white anti-Semites to run would help anti-anti-Semites appear less like those Covington kid smirky racists.

    It’s possible to do two things at once, such as conclude that Omar and Tlaib are anti-Semites and that Trump is a racist, as well evidenced by his tweet today, but I suppose that your emotions are still clouded by Covington.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  110. An ex-GOPer does what GOPers should do but don’t have the balls to do, which is to call it out and say that Trump’s tweet was “racist and disgusting”.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  111. You haven’t lived long

    At least I know what millennium it is.

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. @113. It’s not a falconed spaceship, Dave.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. An ex-GOPer does what GOPers should do but don’t have the balls to do, which is to call it out and say that Trump’s tweet was “racist and disgusting”.

    If they won’t do the right thing and remove him from office, they should start passing revised appropriations with the Democrats, by veto-proof majorities, to take away Trump’s toys, travel budget, bodyguards, cooks, personal servants, media and IT support, etc. He clearly has too much time on his hands; doing his own laundry and cooking while hiding from the crowds roaming the unguarded WH grounds will keep him out of trouble.

    If he won’t behave like the President of the United States, then the taxpayers shouldn’t be paying to give him all the perks that go with the job. Let him run the Executive Branch out of a room at the Motel Six. As long as the teevee gets FoxNews, I doubt anybody will notice a difference.

    Dave (1bb933)

  114. @112. You mean an ex-ultra conservative ‘Freedom Caucus’ founder who quit and took his balls home because nobody would play with him.

    Hate to break this to ‘ya, but ‘The GOP’ ain’t a monolithic bunch of ultra right wing nuts no more. The tail no longer wags the dog. And it’s glorious. Welcome to 1964.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  115. Repeating trite nonsense doesn’t make it profound.

    Dave (1bb933)

  116. @117. Then stop doing it, Dave.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  117. @88. To quote a ‘native born American’– “Ugh.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. Hate to break this to ‘ya, but ‘The GOP’ ain’t a monolithic bunch of ultra right wing nuts no more.

    What else do the voices in your head tell you?

    Dave (1bb933)

  119. @115. ‘… take away Trump’s toys…’ etc., etc.

    Why reward him; you do recall he has his own jetliner and helicopters and servants anyway and private “Motel Six” digs much, much, much, much, much, much nicer and modern than that cramped, old, stodgy museum of a White House museum thingy.

    Forcing him to make use government property is actually a kind of penance, Dave. Take your small victories where you can find them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  120. @120. Since you asked- you answered; the mess boys ate the strawberries.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. AOC: “thanks trump for baleing us out!”

    lany (da12d5)

  122. Trump won cause the Midwest was tired of being sh@t on by the Dims. Only Bernie realizes this. My question: why does economic anxiety have to be accompanied by racism? Trump loves fanning the flames. Fun for the worshippers, but not productive.

    JRH (6518ab)

  123. About darn time a president told these American hating slime balls where to shove it. Keep exposing the hate filled democrat party for 20/20, Mr. President. Who you going to vote for – Trump who wants this country to be the best it can be or – the rinos and democrats that want illegals legal and jews and christians killed?

    mg (8cbc69)

  124. It’s just as likely that Trump was jealous of Jeffrey Epstein hogging all the media attention this past week, so he reached inside his diaper, pulled out a handful of its contents, and threw it at the wall to get mommy’s attention.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. That’s 1000/24th dimensional chess.

    nk (dbc370)

  126. Ira furor brevis est.

    nk (dbc370)

  127. @ Dave, who wrote (#104):

    What urban poverty and alienation from the modern economy have long been for the Democratic Party (a tool to marshal a monolithic core of voters by demagoguing a problem while all the while making it worse), immigration and white alienation from the modern economy are now to Trump’s GOP.

    That, sir, is a genuinely interesting and thoughtful insight, one that hadn’t occurred to me, and I thank you for expressing it so clearly and concisely and sharing it here.

    Beldar (a5097b)

  128. There are many unintended consequences in the immigration system, just as there were from the policies that led to urban blight.

    DRJ (15874d)

  129. “No one in this thread has said it, but I’ll say that Trump’s comments that these brown-skinned women going back to their countries of origin was objectively racist.”
    Paul Montagu (fc91e5) — 7/14/2019 @ 9:41 pm

    Anti-semitism in Congress has a diversity problem. An out-reach program to encourage white anti-Semites to run would help anti-anti-Semites appear less like those Covington kid smirky racists.

    Munroe (0b2761) — 7/14/2019 @ 10:49 pm

    Don’t sell the GOP short, they’ve got this covered.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  130. @ Dave, who wrote (#104):
    What urban poverty and alienation from the modern economy have long been for the Democratic Party (a tool to marshal a monolithic core of voters by demagoguing a problem while all the while making it worse), immigration and white alienation from the modern economy are now to Trump’s GOP.
    That, sir, is a genuinely interesting and thoughtful insight, one that hadn’t occurred to me, and I thank you for expressing it so clearly and concisely and sharing it here.

    Beldar (a5097b) — 7/15/2019 @ 5:36 am

    It’s well stated, but isn’t this just a updated version of the southern strategy and the welfare queen trope?

    Time123 (dba73f)

  131. The Squad is on a Slow Plod, as they make their way to the Ass Cheeks of Oblivion.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. President Trump Rallies A Fractured Democratic Party (UPDATE: Trump Doubles Down)- sorry
    I do not buy your premise.

    See – https://www.theblaze.com/news/poll-democrats-2020-ocasio-cortez-ilhan-omar

    As long as the radical quartet keeps staying in the news and tweeting their disdain and hate for
    anything American, Trump/the Repubs win and the Dems loose.

    Another example. See Sunday’s 7/14/19 LA Times OP-ED, p. A19, ‘RAGE AGAINST THE REGIME’,

    Gary L. Zerman (ab669e)

  133. President Trump Rallies A Fractured Democratic Party (UPDATE: Trump Doubles Down). Sorry I do not buy your premise. Clearly you miss the BIG picture.
    See – https://www.theblaze.com/news/poll-democrats-2020-ocasio-cortez-ilhan-omar
    As long as the radical quartet keeps going Far (and Father) Left, staying in the news and tweeting their disdain and hate for almost anything American, Trump/the Repubs win; the Dems loose.
    Another example. See Sunday’s 7/14/19 LA Times OP-ED, p. A19, ‘RAGE AGAINST THE REGIME’, which featured two (2) columns: “How did a local buffoon become a global menace?” by Paul Slansky and “Hating on Trump just strengthens his support” by Scott Jennings. Here is a link to that OP-ED, but I do not know if it will be successful. https://www.pressreader.com/usa/los-angeles-times/20190714/281792810602402 So, recapped here are the first paragraphs of each piece to make my point.
    Slansky’s ‘local buffoon’: “I thought I hated Nixon. I thought I hated Reagan. I thought I hated Bush and Cheney.”
    Jennings ‘Hating on Trump’: Hats. Tanks. Betsy Ross. The Fourth of July. If theses are the things that cause liberals to lose their ever-loving minds in the era of President Donald Trump, don’t sane Americans need to step in and be the adults in the room?
    The Democrat party has become mostly a coalition of identity politics, victims and haters. Almost everything it is selling it negative or not realistic. AOC claims ICE facilities holding migrants are Nazi concentration camps. Pelosi is advising migrants how to get around our laws to avoid arrest and deportation. H. Clinton repeatedly violated our national security laws with her unsecured private server & emails, obstructed justice by destroying 33,000 emails under subpoena, and plotted with deep state/shadow gov’t cronies to overthrow the 2016 prez election.
    Trumps is pushing positives.
    Ya can’t beat something, with , negatives or nothing. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (ab669e)

  134. 106. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/14/2019 @ 10:06 pm

    He assumed, on the basis of ethnicity, that they are foreigners.

    Not on the basis of ethnicity. On the basis of their opposition to enforcing immigration laws. And actually ehd idn’t assume it – he assumed hos Twotter followers would believe it. AOC is too famous for him to be confused about her. What it is, he wanted to ad hominem argument that could only “work” if they were immigrants.

    As for going back to help Somalia, this is what happened to someone who did:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/14/world/africa/somalia-terrorist-attack-shabab-hodan-nalayeh.html

    At first, Mr. Taveta said, Ms. Nalayeh did her show from Nairobi, traveling to Somalia for the reporting. But in December, she moved back home because “she wanted to be in a country with her people, telling the positive stories,” he said.

    Do you think that Donald Trump is too stupid to know how absurd his comment was?

    But one thing it wasn’t, was racist. It’s geographicalism that Donald Trump is in favor of, not racism. The Obama birth certificate claim wasn’t racists either. Do many people think most American blacks were born outside if the United States?

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  135. typos again.

    * And actually he didn’t assume it – he assumed his Twitter followers would believe it. AOC is too famous for him to be confused about her. What it is, is he wanted to use an ad hominem argument that could only “work” if they were immigrants.

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  136. Not on the basis of ethnicity. On the basis of their opposition to enforcing immigration laws.

    Is everyone who opposes enforcing those laws assumed to have been born elsewhere, and thus to be alien to the land?
    Many people of European heritage have vocally taken a “let ’em all in” posture. How many of them has Trump told to “go back” to the “crime infested” countries from which they “originally came”?

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  137. While they were pinning the tail on acosta:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1150777907364728834

    Narciso (7adc33)

  138. I wonder if Trump thinks a united Democratic Party led by Pelosi is better for him in 2020 than a Party that tilts even further left if she is deposed.

    Or maybe he wants a Democratic Party that seems to be dominated by the far left.

    DRJ (15874d)

  139. Not on the basis of ethnicity. On the basis of their opposition to enforcing immigration laws.

    Trump’s imputation of foreignness to legislators who were born in America (or brought here as a young child) makes it far more difficult to argue that Republican concerns about border control are not fundamentally about race and ethnicity.
    I’ve seen countless tweets asserting that Trump and his defenders (and the silent GOP legislators) have now brought their true motives into the open, rather than hiding behind dog whistles.
    This is an example of Trump uglifying everything he supports. He makes the GOP, and conservatism, and defense of our borders look repulsive. And so do the fans who will justify anything he does.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  140. Alice Fisher, who has since proved herself unethical re Purdue signed off on the deal.

    Narciso (7adc33)

  141. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/15/2019 @ 9:38 am

    Is everyone who opposes enforcing those laws assumed to have been born elsewhere, and thus to be alien to the land?

    Sort of, by Trump – it makes for a simpler story, and enables him to sort of argue backwards, that his policy is right.

    Many people of European heritage have vocally taken a “let ’em all in” posture. How many of them has Trump told to “go back” to the “crime infested” countries from which they “originally came”?

    That’s not from where the current batch of asylum seekers are coming from, and that’s not where the Sqaud’s background is. They got just four votes. (They were trying to make it so that the only way Trump could improve coditions for teh detainees was to release them.)

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  142. 141. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/15/2019 @ 10:07 am

    [Truump]makes the GOP, and conservatism, and defense of our borders look repulsive.

    It is reoulsive, but he knows that the Democrats are not willing to say so – nor are they likely to comme out in favor of moore enfofrcement.

    He thinks he’s got the Democrats in a bind because they’re neither willing to go along with him on immigration (and if they are, he’ll take a slightly more extreme position) nor are they willing to argue against it.

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  143. 140. DRJ (15874d) — 7/15/2019 @ 9:51 am

    I wonder if Trump thinks a united Democratic Party led by Pelosi is better for him in 2020 than a Party that tilts even further left if she is deposed.

    He wants a DIVIDED

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  144. Democratic Party led by Pelosi, with the Presidential nominee from the far (or impossible) left.

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  145. 143:

    Sort of, by Trump

    But has Trump actually, in fact, expressed the assumption that anyone who wants open borders cannot have been born in America?

    that’s not where the Sqaud’s background is.

    Which still doesn’t address the point. It’s entirely possible to debate the Squad on policy, without saying they should “go back” to the countries from which they “originally came” etc. Trump didn’t do that. He made an issue of their ethnicity. He looked at them and judged them to be foreign.

    His defenders can try to spin it any way they want, but they can’t wipe away the reasonable perception by many Americans that Trump judges others through a racial and ethnic lens, and that his policies probably reflect those judgments.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  146. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/15/2019 @ 10:38 am

    It’s entirely possible to debate the Squad on policy, without saying they should “go back” to the countries from which they “originally came” etc. Trump didn’t do that.

    Trump doesn’t want to “debate” them on policy. He wants to use ad hominem arguments. They’re more all encompassing,

    Now note I said ad hominem. I didn’t say racist.

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  147. Ad hominem arguments mixed in with a few real ones when they say something not really defensible. The two types of arguments work together.

    Sammy Finkelman (dec35d)

  148. Now note I said ad hominem. I didn’t say racist.

    What was the basis on which Trump assumed that those legislators must be from somewhere else – that “their” real country is somewhere else?
    Has Trump made the same assumption about anyone of European ancestry, merely as an “ad hominem, not racist” argument?

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  149. For the record, I have many times been exasperated by the rush to shout “racism” as a way of evading substantive debate. I have said many times that defending our borders and enforcing immigration laws is not fundamentally racist (and many Latino Americans are border hawks).

    Trump made the issue about race by imputing foreignness to people who were born in America. Any claim that he did so only because of their policy stance is simply spin.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  150. Now Trump says he thinks they are American citizens who were duly elected.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  151. Now Trump says

    He says whatever he thinks will serve him at the moment.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  152. Why reward him; you do recall he has his own jetliner and helicopters and servants anyway and private “Motel Six” digs much, much, much, much, much, much nicer and modern than that cramped, old, stodgy museum of a White House museum thingy.

    Except all his stuff will be seized under eminent domain, for pennies on the dollar, and repurposed as migrant shelters.

    Dave (1bb933)

  153. *migrant shelters and sewage treatment facilities.

    Dave (1bb933)

  154. 158:
    What Trump obviously did was assume that native-born Americans came from somewhere else, that their real country is somewhere else, on grounds of ethnicity.
    He put a torch to all the conservative arguments that wanting to defend our borders and control the flow of immigration is not based on ethnic prejudice.

    The Trump apologists who insist that he said nothing wrong are all, in effect, endorsing his insinuation that skin tone has something to do with whether you’re a real American.

    Radegunda (f133c3)


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