Patterico's Pontifications

7/10/2019

Bill Clinton and Donald Trump Comment About Jeffrey Epstein

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:09 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Since the indictment against Jeffrey Epstein was unsealed on Monday, there appears to be a disturbing concern on both sides of the political aisle that the other side is not wholly committed to the belief that everyone found to have been involved in the alleged sex trafficking crimes of Jeffrey Epstein should be held accountable. No exceptions. It’s indecent that partisan politics and the sick reverence of politicians could trump the rape and trafficking of children. And yet there are partisans who have their finger-pointing “whataboutisms” ready, just in case their guy is implicated.

With that, since the indictment was made public, the two most focused upon individuals connected to Epstein, once upon a time, are former President Bill Clinton and current President Donald Trump. In the past few days both men have commented on Epstein.

In 2002, Clinton said this about Epstein:

“Jeffrey is both a highly successful financier and a committed philanthropist with a keen sense of global markets and an in-depth knowledge of twenty-first-century science,” Clinton says through a spokesman. “I especially appreciated his insights and generosity during the recent trip to Africa to work on democratization, empowering the poor, citizen service, and combating HIV/AIDS.”

In what seemed to be a puzzling preemptive strike, Clinton’s press secretary released a statement on the former president’s behalf just hours after the indictment was unsealed. Clinton firmly denied knowing anything about Epstein’s “terrible crimes”:

President Clinton knows nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to in Florida some years ago, or those with which he has recently been charged in New York. In 2002 and 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane: one to Europe, one to Asia, and two to Africa, which included stops in connection with the Clinton Foundation. Staff, supporters of the foundation, and his Secret Service detail traveled on every leg of every trip. He had one meeting with Epstein in his Harlem office in 2002, and around the same time made one brief visit to Epstein’s New York apartment with a staff member and his security detail. He’s not spoken to Epstein in well over a decade, and has never been to Little St. James Island, Epstein’s ranch in New Mexico, or his residence in Florida.

In 2002, Trump said this about Epstein:

“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

On Monday, commenting on the latest developments concerning Epstein, President Trump said:

“I know him, just like everybody in Palm Beach knew him,” Trump said. “People in Palm Beach knew him. He was a fixture in Palm Beach.”

“I had a falling out with him a long time ago,” Trump continued. “I don’t think I’ve spoken to him in 15 years. I was not a fan. I was not a fan of his. That I can tell you. I was not a fan.”

I’ll also include Trump’s comments about about Bill Clinton (and Jeffrey Epstein): “Nice guy — uh, got a lot of problems coming up, in my opinion, with the famous island, with Jeffrey Epstein,” Trump told Fox News’ Sean Hannity in 2015, referring to Clinton’s connections with Epstein. “A lot of problems.”

Both Clinton and Trump are known liars who lack a functioning moral compass. And they’ve both demonstrated this, ad nauseam, with regard to the opposite sex. I have absolutely no idea if they were involved with the alleged behavior of Epstein, or how much they knew about what he was up to, if anything. At this point in time, nothing would surprise me.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

125 Responses to “Bill Clinton and Donald Trump Comment About Jeffrey Epstein”

  1. At this point in time, nothing would surprise me. And how sad is that.

    Dana (bb0678)

  2. 1. I really want people to ignore politics on this. If ‘your guy’ is implicated they need to be investigated fairly, fully and if applicable with out laws prosecuted. Punishing a child rapist is more important that tribal affiliation.
    2. I’ve seen a lot of discussion about trump and Clinton all over the place. This doesn’t seem to be an example of media bias.
    3. There’s plenty of evidence that both Clinton and Trump (and Dershowitz, and Prince Andrew) may have been involved. Not proof, but evidence.
    4. Based on the reading I’ve done I think the justice system at both the state and federal level failed the young women who were being preyed upon. I think understanding and fixing that is important. More important than tribal affiliation. If that means we need a new Secretary of Labor I don’t care. If that means the Obama DOJ is investigated I don’t care. If that means the NYPD looks bad I don’t care. It may well be that everyone did everything by the book. If so we need to revise the book.
    5. Anyone shifting the focus is either stupid, or garbage, or both, but there are obviously implications to things that are already contentious policy discussions. I’m sad that I don’t see a leader on the national stage with the standing and moral authority help navigate this. Maybe one will step up, but I’m not optimistic.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  3. Punishing a child rapist is more important that tribal affiliation.

    Don’t you think it’s telling that this even needs to be said? I do.

    Dana (bb0678)

  4. note how Wikipedia, and google are scrubbing the internets of any Clinton connections, and adding trump connections, (we’ve seen this pattern before,)

    narciso (d1f714)

  5. Can you provide links?

    Dana (bb0678)

  6. I just finished watching Sec Acosta’s press conference. He said he released some details (affidavits) that we should see soon.

    I think he handled it well.

    What struck me though, is that the dual-sovereignty kicked in when the Feds stepped in to stop the state courts. Dual-sovereignty for the win!

    whembly (fd57f6)

  7. note how Wikipedia, and google are scrubbing the internets of any Clinton connections, and adding trump connections, (we’ve seen this pattern before,)

    narciso (d1f714) — 7/10/2019 @ 12:32 pm

    you’re horrible.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  8. Unlike Clinton, no one had documented Trump making trips with Epstein. So I’m inclined to believe Trump did nothing worse with Epstein than attend the same parties on the Manhattan/Palm Beach social scenes.

    kishnevi (0c10d1)

  9. Lay the cards on the table and read em and weep.

    mg (8cbc69)

  10. Lay the cards on the table and read em and weep.

    mg (8cbc69) — 7/10/2019 @ 12:43 pm

    Hell yes. Toss everyone involved, and everyone that knew, into a lake of fire. Make everyone that should have, could have, stopped this lay out how they could have done better. People can make their own decisions on if someone did ‘enough’.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  11. I’m posturing towards Epstein has the goods on Trump. The Deep State can’t take anymore of Trump. Prosecutor Comey will have her revenge.

    mg (8cbc69)

  12. like harry reid was for his Abramoff ties, have greg craig or john podesta gone to trial yet, I’ll reserve any expectation of equal justice, meanwhile the pinch hitter brought in from new York was rebuffed on his most recent charge in the Flynn case,

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. If these guys both get rolled up in the investigation, I will dance a jig in the middle of the street.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  14. Here is the original story where the Trump quote appeared:

    Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery

    http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

    The whole thing is a glowing review of how wonderful Epstein was. The author concludes:

    Friends of Epstein say he is horrified at the recent swell of media attention around him (Vanity Fair is preparing a megaprofile, and the Villard House office has had a barrage of calls from other media outlets). He has never granted a formal interview, and did not offer one to this magazine, nor has his picture appeared in any publication. Yet for one so obsessive about his privacy, one wonders – didn’t he realize that flying Clinton and Spacey around Africa was going to blow his cover? As he said to a friend: “If my ultimate goal was to stay private, traveling with Clinton was a bad move on the chessboard. I recognize that now. But you know what? Even Kasparov makes them. You move on.”

    I find it more believable that Trump, when approached by a vanity social columnist, made up glowing comments about the “Man of Mystery” rather than appear to know nothing about him. Epstein seems to have kept his private life extremely private until Clinton got involved.

    The author seemed to leave no stone unturned in his quest to find out everything there was to know about Epstein. Apparently he missed the clues that pointed to the real Epstein. Maybe others did as well.

    BuDuh (73f798)

  15. msdnc we will protect clinton rest of liberal media fall in line go after glen greenbelt or julian assuage. fox news we will protect trump and go after AOC’s twitter feed.

    lany (e51f35)

  16. at that time, graydon carter of vanity fair, excised the names of the two women, from Vicky wards report, they displayed a little curiousity of the way Epstein made his money,

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. Narciso… on the links re:scrubbing, I provided one in one of the other threads night before last.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. If these guys both get rolled up in the investigation, I will dance a jig in the middle of the street.

    Davethulhu (fab944) — 7/10/2019 @ 1:09 pm

    Will it be discernible from a Victory Mince® ?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  19. lexus nexus, hasn’t gotten there, remember they see 1984 as a how to manual, he hasn’t performed to any real degree of success, but that’s not why he wants his scalp,

    narciso (d1f714)

  20. Funny how the subject gets changed to “teh media” when it becomes too uncomfortable to face what a colossal bag of sleaze now occupies the WH.

    JRH (1b7dd5)

  21. This is interesting.

    Trump had been following the story closely. In the week or so leading up to his CPAC speech, David Pecker, who owned the Enquirer until it was sold in ruin earlier this year, visited Trump on the 26th floor of Trump Tower, bringing along an issue with a Prince Andrew and Epstein-related cover, according to people familiar with the meeting. Pecker, of course, was in the business of protecting Trump. An early supporter of his presidential campaign, Pecker has helped “catch and kill” at least two stories involving the real estate mogul and women who claimed to have had affairs with him. (Trump has denied the affairs.)
    Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, who would later go to prison in part for his role in these hush money schemes, was in the room when Pecker sat down. Pecker, he later told me, used to send him articles and issues before they were published so that he and Trump could read them. After the meeting Trump called in Sam Nunberg, then a Trump Organization employee, who saw Pecker leaving Trump’s office. “Michael was sitting in there when I came in, and the issue of the National Enquirer with the pictures of Prince Andrew was on his desk,” Nunberg recalled. “He said not to tell anyone, but that Pecker had just been there and had brought the issue with him. Trump said that Pecker had told him that the pictures of Clinton that Epstein had from his island were worse.” (Cohen, speaking by phone from the Federal Correctional Institution in Otisville, corroborated Nunberg’s version of the events, though he declined to add any additional information about the meeting.)

    Dana (bb0678)

  22. “Will it be discernible from a Victory Mince®”

    I have to defer to your expertise as the trademark holder.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  23. So… popehat on twittah has questions:

    You knew, in 2008, that Mr. Epstein had a residence in New York and traveled to other jurisdictions, correct?

    And you knew that it was conceivable that there could be an investigation of whether he committed federal crimes in other districts, correct?

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    They were elite, experienced lawyers, correct?

    And they knew — as any competent attorney would — that Mr. Epstein faced exposure in other districts if he conducted the alleged activities in those districts, right?

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    Now, you’re very familiar with the sorts of agreements that the U.S. Attorney’s Office makes with defendants, right?

    You’d agree with me that federal prosecutors take great pains to be very specific and explicit, and not ambiguous, in their agreements with defendants?

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    I ask because of some of the terms of the agreement you approved seem to lend themselves to an argument by Mr. Epstein — perhaps not a strong one, but an argument — that the agreement is ambiguous about whether it applies outside your district.

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    Now, the agreement also says that “prosecution in this district” will be deferred, and elsewhere it says that the Southern District of Florida is deferring prosecution, which probably mean that SDNY will prevail on this argument. pic.twitter.com/UcxgcnxIdY

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    Moreover, Mr. Secretary, the agreement contains a general promise by the United States — not limited by district — not to prosecute Mr. Epstein’s co-conspirators. pic.twitter.com/taxYXxHvMU

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    You would agree, Mr. Secretary, that you were competent and knew what you were doing at the time, correct?

    And the defense was competent and knew what it was doing at the time?

    In light of that, this level of ambiguity was intentional, correct?

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    Mr. Secretary, if you knew that Mr. Epstein’s lawyers wanted a nationwide deal, and knew that he might use this agreement as a defense to prosecution elsewhere someday, why does this agreement have the ambiguities I’ve outlined above?

    — RammedTheRampartsHat (@Popehat) July 10, 2019

    So… I get Acosta’s position in that his office wanted Epstein:
    a) in jail
    b) register as sex offender
    c) agree to restitutions

    But, you can’t ignore popehat’s tweets. What was the US Attorney Office thinking to agree to that settlement. Did the defense really have that strong of a defense? (Acosta did mention that some of the presumed victims were willing to testify *for* the defense to exonerate Epstein… not sure how powerful that would be).

    Is is because Epstein had that great of lawyers and that Acosta wanted a “win” regardless how weak it eventually became?

    whembly (fd57f6)

  24. So, Clinton said this in his statement about trips on Epstein’s jet:

    In 2002 and 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane: one to Europe, one to Asia, and two to Africa, which included stops in connection with the Clinton Foundation. Staff, supporters of the foundation, and his Secret Service detail traveled on every leg of every trip.

    Except, that isn’t quite accurate:

    Former President Bill Clinton claimed that he took four trips, accompanied by the Secret Service, on billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein’s “Lolita Express” private airplane, but flight manifests reveal at least six separate journeys, two of which were without Secret Service agents.
    The two trips not acknowledged by Clinton were from Miami, Florida, to Westchester, New York, in early February 2002, which appears to be the first time that Clinton joined Epstein, and a trip in Asia.

    One May 2002 Asian trip, without Secret Service agents, included stops in Japan, Hong Kong, China, Thailand, and Brunei. The other, in November 2003, with Secret Service agents, included stops in Norway, Siberia, Hong Kong, and China.

    Another divergence from Clinton’s account is that the manifests show no Secret Service agents were present for one of the former president’s Africa trips with Epstein.

    The discrepancies between Clinton’s claims and the flight manifests draw the former president deeper into the Epstein scandal. Epstein has also been associated with Prince Andrew and President Trump, a fellow resident of Palm Beach, Florida. Trump reportedly flew with Epstein and in 2002 described him as a “terrific guy,” adding: “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

    Sleight of hand.

    Dana (bb0678)

  25. A headline: JUST “HIM AND EPSTEIN” AND “28 GIRLS”: FLORIDA MAN DROPS A DIME ON TRUMP

    Florida businessman George Houraney told the New York Times that the president’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein involved at least one “calendar girl” party at Mar-a-Lago.

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. One thing is certain: Bill Clinton is a far better liar than Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  27. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, who would later go to prison in part for his role in these hush money schemes,

    Is that right?

    BuDuh (73f798)

  28. Agreed, Kevin M. Although, which of the two, politics or NY real estate, demands a more forked tongue for the greatest amount of success??

    Dana (bb0678)

  29. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, who would later go to prison in part for his role in these hush money schemes,

    Is that right?

    Totally right. After Cohen was indicted for tax fraud and whatever, he went and “confessed” that he paid the pay-off to Stormy on behalf of Trump in order to influence the election. Trump hires “the best people”, it’s a well-known fact.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. Regarding Wikipedia, there has been some serious editing of Jeffrey Epstein’s page going on over the past few days. You can view the edit history here. It does appear that there is some controversy about whether to include the fact that Bill Clinton’s account of the number of times he has flown with Epstein has come under question. There is also a debate among Wikipedia editors whether or not Secret Service agents always flew with Clinton, as the former President has claimed, and if the flight logs show that underage girls were aboard all of the flights Clinton took. Wikipeda editors have in the last 24 hours, it would seem, agreed to add the tidbit that Epstein had been ultimately barred from Mar-a-Largo.

    This is why Wikipedia is pretty much useless except for the basic agreed-upon facts such as names and dates, which are easily obtainable elsewhere.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  31. nk, Cohen’s later “confession” resulted in a prison sentence in and of itself, or was it an increase in the sentence he was given for tax fraud?

    I don’t remember any specific sentencing for “hush money.”

    BuDuh (73f798)

  32. I don’t know if they itemized the bill, either. Maybe it was “Let’s call it an even three years for the whole job, and we’ll throw in monthly conjugal visits at no charge”.

    nk (dbc370)

  33. Thanks, nk. I couldn’t find an actual court document, but most of the reporting from the day he was sentenced say that his hush money confession played a role.

    BuDuh (cbaf6c)

  34. I have to defer to your expertise as the trademark holder.

    Davethulhu (fab944) — 7/10/2019 @ 2:42 pm

    You should’ve let me know there was a problem with your checks. We’ll get that fixed PDQ.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. “What makes Vanity Fair’s report double fascinating is that the leftist magazine clearly implies that Epstein doesn’t have any dirt on Trump himself. On Twitter, leftist users have been tweeting hopefully about how this could ruin Trump’s presidency. Vanity Fair knows better. When push comes to shove, this case will involve high-ranking and extremely influential Democrats.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. Hopefully Epstein will get nailed and stay nailed this time.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  37. Trump wanted a quote in Vanity Fair. If it bites him in his wrinkled old podex now, tough covfefes.

    nk (dbc370)

  38. 30 JVW Look at the Wikipedia Talk page and you can also check some of the references.

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  39. In 2002 and 2003, President Clinton took a total of four trips on Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane: one to Europe, one to Asia, and two to Africa..

    Is there any contradictin beween this and the Fox News reporting?

    Bill Clinton limits himself to 2002 and 2003. Does Fox?

    What is the definiton of Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane?

    Now the thing is I don’t think Bill Clinton or Donald Trump, or almost any men, shared Jeffrey Epstein;s proclivities so that would not be the reaon for them to be together. One motive, for Epstein, could have been to have people say he is like them. You could think of alot of reasons.

    They are accusing Acosta of going easy but not giving any reason why he should. Acosta was actually the toughest prosecutor then. He had to worry about the rug being cut out from under him – but that’s not waht he saying.

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  40. The quote was from NY Magazine, nk.

    BuDuh (cbaf6c)

  41. Sorry. Thank you. I don’t click Vox links and I missed your Comment 14.

    nk (dbc370)

  42. “It’s always the billionaire convicted pedo with private Lolita Express jets to his own orgy island that you least expect’’

    — Iowahawk

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. So Trump hasn’t talked to him for 15 years. When’s the last time Clinton talked to Epstein? A year ago, on Epstein’s Island?

    Yoking these two together is ridiculous. Bill clinton was impeached for lying under oath. He was getting lewinsky’s in the oval office. And Trump? He’s done nothing for the last 10 years, except watch Shark week.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  44. I tend to agree that Trump is clean in regard to Epstein.

    My motto has been “You can never go wrong saying something nice about somebody”, but apparently there are exceptions.

    nk (dbc370)

  45. Go read Ann Coulter’s latest column on Epstein. She’s been trying to get media attention on this scandal since 2015 – if not sooner.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  46. 45… but is he exonerated, nk?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  47. Yoking these two together is ridiculous. Bill clinton was impeached for lying under oath. He was getting lewinsky’s in the oval office. And Trump? He’s done nothing for the last 10 years, except watch Shark week.

    So you can’t see any reason why these two individuals might be the focus of the post? No similarities in behavior, morality, principles, or belonging to the same incredibly elite small club??

    Dana (bb0678)

  48. I think one has to be a real sick f*ck to have knowledge of what twisted Epstein was all about and still keep quiet about it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  49. 45… but is he exonerated, nk?

    The jury is still out. And that’s what “exonerated” means. The evidence was tested and the trier of fact found it insufficient.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. Seeing how dsk has escaped any consequences , same for Weinstein, until recently raniere whose trial the times buried, would you come forward.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  51. I think Cohen had two sets of charges and two plea bargains — one with Special Counsel Mueller in November 2018 and one with the SDNY US Attorney in August 2018. The hush money/campaign finance charges were part of the SDNY charges and plea bargain.

    DRJ (15874d)

  52. Both clinton and Trump like women and have known to play around

    the difference is that trump hasnt displayed any pedophile tendencies whereas clinton…

    joe dallas (93323e)

  53. @30. Meh. My addition to Von Braun’s wikibio, stating he was allergic to feather pillows, which is 100% true, kept being deleted by their so-called, ‘editors.’ LOL

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. So far the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in the media is the Palm Beach state prosecutor blaming Acosta for the previous case, when his own office had brought only one charge of soliciting of prostitution, like trying to pick up a hooker at a street corner, practically guaranteed to let Epstein walk.

    nk (dbc370)

  55. the difference is that trump hasnt displayed any pedophile tendencies whereas clinton…

    The differences is that Clinton hasn’t displayed any pedophile tendencies whereas Trump has. Fixed it for ya.

    Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant also said the Republican used to walk in. Some of the girls were as young as 15.

    Former Miss Vermont Teen USA, Mariah Billado, told Buzzfeed: “I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here.”

    Three other girls chose to remain anonymous, but told the publication it was “creepy” and “shocking”.

    Mr Trump said on the Howard Stern radio show in 2005 that he was “allowed”, as the owner of the pageant, to go backstage while the contestants were getting dressed.

    Differently rapey is still rapey. Pornstars, interns, old lady in the underwear department, whomever. Trump’s dingus is no more innocent than Clinton’s.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  56. He might be a bit touchy on the subject for another reason: Jupiter, site of thr former Orchids of Asia Day Spa is in Palm Beach County.

    Kishnevi (df17af)

  57. Picture you can access on line shows Bill Clinton on Epstein’s plane with a 14-year old girl. He is either about to come down with a debilitating illness or will be seen as a disgusting sick bastard rather than a lovable rogue.

    Trump never had a problem getting women. Grant you he hasn’t been a wonderful husband and he has the morals of an alley cat. But chasing little girls is not his MO. If comes to pass I’m wrong I’ll be surprised.

    The prior deal was done by Acosta’s office. But he got the whole “intelligence” bracing regarding Epstein from higher up; AG Alberto Gonzalez and his boss, Bush Jr. And that to me is the big story; the Bushes and a lot of the DC establishment wanted this story to go away. All the Bush/Clinton mutual admiration is not the wonderful warm story it’s been portrayed as. The reason the MSM is talking about Trump is the do not want to talk about the reality, that this is the underside to the establishment and it crosses big business, Hollywood and The DC Swamp.

    Bugg (024e40)

  58. Picture you can access on line shows Bill Clinton on Epstein’s plane with a 14-year old girl.

    Link it or I’m calling you a liar.

    nk (dbc370)

  59. It seems to be included here
    http://toresays.com/2019/07/07/exclusive-photos-epstein-who-was-blocking-the-unsealing/
    Judge for yourself

    Kishnevi (df17af)

  60. Well they may have their differences, but their contempt for outsiders has them in common.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  61. Thank you, Kishnevi. I will not call Bugg a liar. I will reserve “gullible”, as well.

    nk (dbc370)

  62. Ann Coulter has a lot more on the Palm Beach prosecutor. http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2019-07-10.html#read_more

    nk (dbc370)

  63. This is why Wikipedia is pretty much useless except for the basic agreed-upon facts such as names and dates, which are easily obtainable elsewhere.

    Wikipedia is useless for anything topical, particularly when it involves politics. But if you are trying to figure out what some strange battery is, or a concise explanation of the CORDIC algorithm, it’s the go-to resource.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  64. We cross-posted, Bugg. Thank you for the link. I am reserving judgment on the authenticity, given the perfervid polemics that accompany the photo in both yours and Kishnevi’s links.

    nk (dbc370)

  65. My addition to Von Braun’s wikibio

    I’d delete that one, too, on grounds of removing clutter.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  66. I believe Bill Clinton when he says he knows nothing of this Jeff Epstein.

    I also believe in unicorns, that profligate deficit spending will never cause us any grief, that the Mets are locks to be 2019 World Series champions and that I possess in my pocket a winning Powerball ticket right now.

    Bugg (024e40)

  67. Trump … has the morals of an alley cat.

    This is unfair to many alley cats who are behaving as perfectly reasonable cats.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  68. I might note that the photo’s background is so shadowed it looks more like a boat than a plane to me.

    Kishnevi (df17af)

  69. Hey it could happen in an alternate universe.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  70. @67. But Kevin, “It’s the go-to resource.”

    The truth is out there.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. Look at him all over this child, how rapey.
    http://i.imgur.com/1geL5I1.jpg

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  72. I might note that the photo’s background is so shadowed it looks more like a boat than a plane to me.

    No, you mean toresays??? might have taken photos out of context and inserted them into a narrative? Shocked!!!

    Maybe that girl was silenced by the Hillary hit squad too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  73. taken hotos out of context and inserted them into a narrative? 

    How very E Jean Carroll of them.

    BuDuh (cbaf6c)

  74. I’m going out on a limb here and say that Trump likes women taller and with larger boobs than the average 14 year old in Epsteins picture files

    steveg (354706)

  75. Clinton seems to like females with three orifices and multiple rubbing surfaces. His beer goggles are always on

    steveg (354706)

  76. 31. BuDuh (73f798) — 7/10/2019 @ 4:11 pm

    nk, Cohen’s later “confession” resulted in a prison sentence in and of itself, or was it an increase in the sentence he was given for tax fraud?

    I think the idea was to get a reduction. Or at least a postponement of the day he had to report to prison.

    Sammy Finkelman (385c0e)

  77. I’m concerned less about words and more about acts. Trump acted by picking Mr. Acosta to be Labor Secretary, despite the sweetheart deal he made with a billionaire pedophile and breaking the law by not informing the families of the 30-plus victims that a sweetheart deal was made. The math works out to 13 days in prison (or less) for every raped little girl.
    The result is that this billionaire pedophile has been free for the last eleven years to rape more underage girls, and Trump’s Labor Secretary helped make that happen.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  78. Well, the latest media release says that Trump expelled Epstein from Mar a Lago because of attacks on young girls there, so isn’t that a good thing? And ASAIK it was only Bill Clinton who accompanied him to Orgy Island.

    If we insist on trying people we hate by media truths I think we have to acknowledge this.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  79. “I might note that the photo’s background is so shadowed it looks more like a boat than a plane to me.”

    It’s teh goddam Spruce Goose!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  80. I’ll give Trump credit for this: He drew the line at having a strip club sponsor a golf tournament at one of his resorts, an event that would have had stripper caddies. Standards!
    As to whether Trump kicked Epstein out of his clubs after he was convicted as a pedophile, you’d have to take the word of Sam Nunberg, one of Trump’s most loyal stooges.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  81. Miami Herald Op-ed article by Jeffrey H. Sloman from this February: (the Jeffrey Epstein case has been gradually getting more and more attention)

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article226331175.html

    In the late 2000s, I worked as Alex’s second-in-command at the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of Florida. The Epstein case came to our attention in 2006. The local authority with primary jurisdiction to hold Epstein accountable for his crimes, the Palm Beach County State Attorney’s Office, was going to allow him to plead guilty to a misdemeanor and merely pay a fine. The local police rightly were outraged and brought the facts to us.

    After reviewing the case, we were appalled. Stunningly, the local prosecutors’ resolution had not even acknowledged that Epstein engaged in abhorrent sex acts with scores of children. Despite our shock, we approached this case as federal prosecutors should approach every case: with a steadfast commitment to truth and a deep and abiding respect for the rights that our constitution and our laws afford to both victims and the accused. Our priorities were to make sure Epstein could not hurt anyone else and to compensate Epstein’s victims without retraumatizing them.

    Our team worked diligently to build a federal case against Epstein. Throughout the investigation, we took care to be respectful of the pain Epstein’s victims had endured. As we continued, however, it became clear that most of Epstein’s victims were terrified to cooperate against him. Some hired lawyers to avoid appearing before a grand jury. One of the key witnesses moved to Australia and refused to return calls from us. We also researched and discussed significant legal impediments to prosecuting what was, at heart, a local sex abuse case.

    Given the obstacles we faced in fashioning a robust federal prosecution, we decided to negotiate a resolution. The only way a resolution could ever be palatable, though, was if we met our two objectives: to protect others from Epstein and to compensate Epstein’s victims without subjecting them to additional trauma.

    To those ends, we demanded that Epstein: (1) plead guilty to a felony in state court that reflected his true conduct; (2) agree to incarceration for up to 18 months; (3) register as a sex offender; and (4) pay each known victim between $150,000 and $250,000 through a streamlined mechanism designed to avoid revictimization. We genuinely felt that these conditions met our two objectives. We told Epstein that unless he and the local authorities accepted our demands, we would indict and try him on federal charges. They agreed, and we did not pursue a federal case….

    The jail time didn’t turn out to be real jail at all (not Acosta’s fault) but they did put a stop to his activities. They also didn’t find out the number and extent of the victims.

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  82. How long does it take for lawyers to edit and release the photos?

    mg (8cbc69)

  83. Trump should come out and support Acosta. Support him strong: “The crooked and corrupt Democrat prosecutors in Manhattan and Palm Beach who did not want to prosecute Epstein at all are trying to deflect their malfeasance by saying Alex did not prosecute him enough.”

    nk (dbc370)

  84. At least I hope he’s called “Alex” and not “Rene”.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. Trump should come out and support Acosta. Support him strong: “The crooked and corrupt Democrat prosecutors in Manhattan and Palm Beach who did not want to prosecute Epstein at all are trying to deflect their malfeasance by saying Alex did not prosecute him enough.”

    nk (dbc370) — 7/11/2019 @ 4:10 am

    What a garbage thing to hope. I hope he says “It’s clear that the process didn’t deliver results that protected children from sexual predation. I’m creating a bi-partisan task force that will include the IG for the DOJ to review this and come back with recommendations on how to make sure we do better in the future. They have 30 days to come back with their plan and timeline which will be made public.

    Your suggestion would be better politics but do nothing to help get justice for young girls who were raped, or prevent similar failures in the future.

    Time123 (797615)

  86. Missing from the rumor and innuendo here: Epstein’s alleged friendships with important Saudis and the obvious Bush connection.

    Acosta acted in 2008,while Bush was President. The Florida locals allegedly quashed this just after Jeb left the governorship, to be replaced by another Republican.

    I can see the Florida locals but why would the Bushes be protecting Trump in 2008? Epstein also got help with Cyrus Vance, the NY prosecutor. Bloomberg was mayor – maybe he was a Trump fan?

    Back to the Arabs, Vicky Ward reported that Acosta told the Trump transition team that he was told to back off Epstein because “he belonged to intelligence”. Maybe Acosta lied, maybe someone lied to him, or maybe “Taken” was correct and some of these rich Sheiks have a thing for teenage girls.

    If – IF! – Epstein (or someone close to him? His girlfriend/enabler/procurer?) was liasing with Saudis and providing intel related to the hunt for bin Laden or on Saddam’s WMDs, protecting him was inevitable. The weird provision in the plea agreement not to go after fellow conspirators also makes more sense.

    Good stuff for the tinfoil hat crowd. (My tinfoil Yankees cap is always at hand!)

    And do let me add: on the Trump/Clinton thing: The Bushes, esp. 41, were famously friendly with Bill for his relief work. 43 was big on Aids in Africa, as was Clinton. Protecting him in 2007/08 would have been a Bush thing. Obviously, the Dem establishment would have been protecting Hillary’s Presidential run in 2008.

    So if the Epstein protection turns out to be a joint effort of the establishment of both parties, how loudly will Trump be yelling “Drain the swamp!”?

    Will Trump be implicated? People will search high and low and and his moral compass is non-existent. However, he was scoring models and starlets for years with no help from Jeffrey. Wild Bill, OTOH, was hitting on hotties like Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky. Of the two, I’d say Clinton is more likely.

    Tom Maguire (b2e66c)

  87. What a garbage thing to hope.

    I did not express a hope. I made a statement: Stick by the only person who did something and now is being castigated for not doing “enough” when Cyrus Vance and Barry Krischer tried their best to do nothing.

    nk (dbc370)

  88. Did you know that Cyrus Vance tried to get Epstein registered as a low-level (Class 1) sex offender only to be overruled by the judge who bothered to read the file and ordered Epstein registered as Class 3 (high level)? https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/us/jeffrey-epstein-sex-offender/index.html

    nk (dbc370)

  89. nk

    What is the deal with Cyrus Vance? Is there lawyer chit chat?

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  90. Most of the current bleating from the Democrats and the MSM (BIRM) is an effort to distract from the salient point of who and what Jeffrey Epstein is and who his friends and benefactors were.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  91. RIP Jim Bouton

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. Victim chitchat more accurately. He, and the crooked and corrupt NYPD, abused the New York gravity knife law by prosecuting thousands of innocent people for carrying an ordinary pocket knife to the point that the New York state legislature had to amend the law to get him to stop. Recently, he tried to get Manafort moved to Riker’s Island, a prosecutorial abuse that made … wait for it … AOC, as in Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez! speak out against it. AOC! Stepping forward to protect Manafort!

    And now this story. Did not lift a finger to investigate or prosecute Epstein back in the 2000s, and when Acosta got Epstein required to register nationwide as a sex offender, Vance went against the State of New York Board of Examiners of Sex Offenders’ recommendation and tried to have Epstein registered at the lowest level only to be overruled by the judge.

    nk (dbc370)

  93. I’m surprised Disco missed that one, mg, but then Bouton made the unforgivable mistake of exposing Mantle as a creeper.

    urbanleftbehind (70cb47)

  94. At the end of the day, Manafort is a local goomba, that’s just good self-preservation skills demonstrated by AOC, not any stalwart adherence to due process.

    urbanleftbehind (70cb47)

  95. He covered for Weinstein, and dsk before, hes the piano player in the redacted,

    Manafort got the ‘never pay insurance’ Podesta Weber Davis and Craig got otherwise.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  96. I hope SDNY had the foresight to request unlimited phone privileges for Epstein in the lockup. The calls are monitored and it would be “interesting” to see whom he called. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  97. They would prefer he would ‘fall on a knife as you call it’

    Narciso (31d00b)

  98. NK, I’m sorry I misunderstood your comment. At this point I don’t accept that Acosta fulfilled his basic responsibilities. I’m not convinced he didn’t, but from what I’ve read from Ken White and a few others I suspect that want to know more. I am open to evidence that he did but i want that evidence to be made public and examined with appropriate skepticism.

    I’m 100% with you that NYPD dropped the ball.
    I’m 100% on board that sexual abuses of women by rich and powerful men weren’t handled properly.
    I’m 100% uninterested in if helps/hurts either party. My opinion at this point is that both parties have a terrible history of protecting their ‘team’ in these situations and that both need to improve.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  99. 88. Tom Maguire (b2e66c) — 7/11/2019 @ 5:17 am

    Back to the Arabs, Vicky Ward reported that Acosta told the Trump transition team that he was told to back off Epstein because “he belonged to intelligence”. Maybe Acosta lied, maybe someone lied to him, or maybe “Taken” was correct and some of these rich Sheiks have a thing for teenage girls.

    How come people miss the most likely probability??

    Maybe somebody lied to Vicky Ward, and Acosta never said any such thing.

    You consider all possibilities except the most likely one.

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/i-was-told-epstein-belonged-to-intelligence-and-to-leave-it-alone It’s quite hard to know what to make of this claim. As one of my colleagues just pointed out to me the dialog itself seems more out of Hollywood that something you’d hear from a former US Attorney. On it’s face this sounds like second or third hand information, which puts some question over its reliability and may explain the movie script dialog. And you would have the question as to why nobody followed up on that.

    All sorts of lies have been told about how maybe Epstein got way with his plea bargain, EXCEPT THAT THEY DON’T “EXPLAIN” THAT ANYWAY, like that tangential Epstein lawyer Alan Dershowitz personally took advantage of sex that was offered to him that he apparently couldn’t get anywhere else, because in this scenario Dershowitz is supposed to have been a pedophile or something, and if he wasn’t he wouldn’t work for Jeffrey Epstein in the same way that he only worked for O.J. Simpson because he was also a murderer. To say it outright is to expose its absurdity. Is it maybe that Epstein could get him cheaper by offering him that instead of money? Or maybe what, Epstein only trusted him because of that? What about all his other lawyers? Six were involved in negotitating the plea deal. Is Dershowitz so much better? The thing is Dershowiotz has no ongoing relationshop with Epstein so that’s why he became in this story the nexus of corruption.

    Dershowitz denied an allegation that he committed statutory rape on a 14-year old girl, and then got sued for defamation. Dershowitz says he can prove that he wasn’t even present at the time and place alleged.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaz9dpk9Yyk

    And Prince Andrew. And we’re supposed to think Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. All to explain Jeffrey Epstein’s influence the wrong way (Maybe Bill Clinton was a factor, but it would have been money Epstein offered him, not maybe sex.)

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  100. 93… just watched him in that Philip Marlowe movie a month or so ago…

    Different days back then… the Days of Scunions, Muillions and Table P***y

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  101. Before trying to tag Acosta or Trump with this Epstein, this may be worth a read… https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274269/democrat-who-let-jeffrey-epstein-get-away-daniel-greenfield

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  102. Cyrus Vance’s office, in 2011, tried to get Jeffrey Epstein’s sex offender classification downgraded from Level 3 to Level 1.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/09/nyregion/cyrus-vance-epstein.html

    During a hearing in 2011, a seasoned sex-crimes prosecutor from Mr. Vance’s office argued forcefully in court that Mr. Epstein, who had been convicted in Florida of soliciting an underage prostitute, should not be registered as a top-level sex offender in New York.

    Instead, the prosecutor, Jennifer Gaffney, asked a judge to reduce Mr. Epstein’s sex-offender status to the lowest possible classification, which would have limited the personal information available to the public, and would have kept him from being listed on a registry of sex offenders for life.

    Justice Ruth Pickholz vehemently denied the request and expressed incredulity that the district attorney’s office would argue in support of a man accused of sexually molesting dozens of teenage girls in Florida.

    “I have to tell you, I’m a little overwhelmed because I have never seen a prosecutor’s office do anything like this,” the judge told Ms. Gaffney.

    Mr. Vance has said the request was a mistake and had been made by Ms. Gaffney without his knowledge.

    This is actually quite plausible. It is not necessary to bribe the DA, nor is it easy. They just have to make an offer (probably of a job in the future, and a sellout of one of their low paying clients in the present) to someone else in a crucial position in the DA’s office.

    It may even be easy if the DA isn’t too competent. Of course this would be unlikely to be the only favor this unknown deputy performed for some law firm.

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  103. So far the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen in the media is the Palm Beach state prosecutor blaming Acosta for the previous case,

    The real villain is Barry Krischer who refused to prosecute, forcing the victims to go to the Feds. The Palm Beach Chief of Police was so upset at Krischer, he bad-mouthed him to Acosta and accused him of protecting Epstein. Needless to say, Krischer is a hardcore Democrat and Big contributor and has won awards from the ACLU. So, the MSM is protecting him.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  104. I read Ann Coulter’s column per your suggestion and linked it at 64.

    nk (dbc370)

  105. rc, see link at 103

    Colonel Haiku (f2baf4)

  106. Interesting link, Haiku.

    DRJ (15874d)

  107. There is actuallya real criticism of Acosta. That is he and his people probably violated federal rules (unless they technically didn’t apply) about consulting victims before making a plea bargain. They probably got too friendly with the lawyers for Epstein and they probably wewre too scared of (or impressed by) his lawyers.

    One accusation is that some promising lines of investigation were terminated when the plea agreemen came into effect. (and it would have been worse for Epstein or perhaps other people had he not pled guilty)

    The U.S. Attorney’s office began investigating in 2006, and they began negotiating with Epstein’s lawyers in Ausgit 2007. They reached an agreement on September 24, 2007, but then apparently hitches developed (Epstein’s lawyers spent time negiotiating the addendum)

    Acosta it looks like was concerned Epstein might back off. Epstein’s lawyers were very concerned that the victims not be told. One of Epstein’s lawyers wrote a letter noting ametting that took place between him and Acosta on October 12, 2007 and thanked him for his commitment not to contact any victims or witnesses.

    Now that of course meant they would not dscoer how maybe they had nothing to worry about witnessess backing off. The prosecutors themselves were scaring off the victims by warning them they’d be cross examined about their whole personal life and their sex life. Although maybe that was what they needed to do. They knew about 40 victims, so they should surely have had some who were willing to testify after all that.

    Maria Villafaña, the lead prosecutor, who didn’t want a plea bargain, but wanted a trial, even at the risk of losing, went along with not notifying the victims during the negotiations because of the idea that the victims could be cross examined about possible lawsuits. But that goes with the territory. Unless maybe a judge could keep it out of the testimony.

    Anyway, it wasn’t until January 2008 that the victims/witnessess received letters from the FBI that the case was even under investigation. They never discussed any plea bargain with the lawyers for the victims in the ensuing months.

    Maria Villafaña made some effort to notify the victims when adeal was finalized but there was no decision reached until 4:15 pm on a Friday with the plea to be made at 8:30 am the following Monday.

    On Friday June 27, 2008 one of them was informed that Epstein would plead guilty in state court but was not informed that that would be the resolution to the federal case. Others were not contacted. And the lawyers had to fight in court to get the details of the plea bargain.

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  108. thanks, Col.

    mg (8cbc69)

  109. Wow, this speaks volumes:

    The deputies stopped calling Epstein an “inmate” and began referring to him as a “client”.

    Dana (bb0678)

  110. 111 Wow, this speaks volumes:
    The deputies stopped calling Epstein an “inmate” and began referring to him as a “client”.

    This whole thing is so bizarre!

    This is one of those scenarios that an independent/special counsel is needed. But, alas if the past history is of any indication, we’ll never see that.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  111. We all kinda get it at this point. Bill Clinton is a creep. Donald Trump is a creep. Epstein is a special kind of corrupt evil that we all know is out there but we don’t often see because the corruption in our society is quite real.

    I’m 100% with you that NYPD dropped the ball.
    I’m 100% on board that sexual abuses of women by rich and powerful men weren’t handled properly.
    I’m 100% uninterested in if helps/hurts either party. My opinion at this point is that both parties have a terrible history of protecting their ‘team’ in these situations and that both need to improve.

    Time123 (af99e9) — 7/11/2019 @ 7:13 am

    Exactly.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  112. I’m 100% uninterested in if helps/hurts either party. My opinion at this point is that both parties have a terrible history of protecting their ‘team’ in these situations and that both need to improve.

    Which was the point of the post. And the only way that this can improve is to see anyone and everyone involved, taken down. It will be interesting to see who this will involve, and also whether their immense fortunes, access to top-notch defense and power players will cushion their fall.

    Dana (bb0678)

  113. 111… law enforcement playing Stepin Fetchit for a rich scumbag, who woulda thunk it!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (f2baf4)

  114. Dana, It actually makes me angry when people start playing politics with this.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  115. After his convictio… er, slap on the wrist, Epstein was welcomed back with open arms to to the Hollywood social scene. As with Weinstein, they all knew what this guy was all about. It didn’t matter.

    Colonel Haiku (f2baf4)

  116. As it should, Time123. Unfortunately, for those with their hands on the levers of power, it too often doesn’t. They are so invested in power and wealth that annoying things like morality are easily swatted away.

    Dana (bb0678)

  117. Congress shouldn’t be left off the hook with the tax-payer funded shush and hush pay off for sexual abuse.

    mg (8cbc69)

  118. $Epstein’s legal people are planning a $77 million bail request.

    Seriously.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  119. The deputies stopped calling Epstein an “inmate” and began referring to him as a “client”.

    112. whembly (fd57f6) — 7/11/2019 @ 9:23 am

    This whole thing is so bizarre!

    The Palm Beach State Attorney (district attorney in Florida) is elected, and Rush Limbugh says it is highly politicized.

    Here’s more:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/us/politics/acosta-epstein.html

    A federal judge ruled in February that the agreement brokered by Mr. Acosta violated the Crime Victims’ Rights Act by not notifying Mr. Epstein’s victims until later.

    Mr. Acosta said on Wednesday that his office delayed telling victims because it was not sure that Mr. Epstein would go through with the agreement, which included a provision allowing victims to seek financial restitution. If Mr. Epstein had gone to trial rather than pleading guilty, Mr. Acosta said, defense lawyers could have undercut the credibility of the victims by suggesting they were in it only for the money.

    Mr. Acosta agreed with critics who complained that Mr. Epstein was allowed to leave custody up to 12 hours a day, six days a week to work, but said that was a state decision. “This work-release was complete BS,” he said, “and I have been on record as far back as 2011 saying that it was not what was bargained for and it was not what we expected.”

    So what Alexander Acosta is saying is that he was tricked by Jeffrey Epstein’s lawyers about the jail. (or what – they got this idea only later?)

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  120. Do people realize why Palm Beach County State Attorney Barry Krischerwnted to charge Jeffrey Epstein with a little something? *a misdemeanor charge of solicitation of prostitution with no jail time)

    It was a way to immunize him against further prosecution! (in a plea bargain they ccan amke anything they agree to be considered double jeopardy.)

    Sammy Finkelman (8b217f)

  121. At least neither Bill or Donald complimented Jefferson or Washington, or the soon to be attacked as an “enabler” Lincoln. So that’s something.

    And the people all reaching for smelling salts now over Epstein–did my eyes deceive me, or were they among those applauding wildly for Polanski when he got some tinseltown award? ( She was very mature for a 13 year old, we were told).

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (6b1442)

  122. Video of Secretary of Labor Alexander Acosta press conference

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omWJfjTtB34

    (one of the concerns about the deal: All co-conspirators, known and unknown, were given immunity. We can see why Epsteon wanted that. But that should have told Acsta something.

    It was like Acosta was negotiating with North Korea.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  123. Acosta said they told the state that if they gave Epstein the plea they contemplated Epsteon would face federal charges.

    They were so happy that he registered as a sex offender, got some jail time, and the known victims were guaranteed compensation without having to go to court, that they lost sight of all the other terms.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

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