Patterico's Pontifications

1/26/2019

Ken White on the Roger Stone Indictment

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 2:17 pm



Ken White has an excellent analysis of Roger Stone and his criminal troubles in The Atlantic:

Stone is perfectly suited for the age of clickbait. He’s got a flamboyant wardrobe, a Nixon tattoo, and a flair for getting people to laugh at him. He has a brand: truculent and unjustified self-confidence, meandering trash-talking, and a penchant for lashing out at perceived enemies. These things make him a reliable eye-catcher. Nobody ever changed the channel when Stone was trying to talk himself out of trouble. But these same qualities make Stone and people like him easy targets for a ruthless prosecutor. The indictment depicts Stone acting in private more or less the way he acts in public. The special counsel has charged Stone with five counts of lying to Congress, one count of witness tampering, and one count of obstructing a House intelligence probe into Russian interference.

The indictment charges that Stone eagerly pitched himself to the Trump campaign as the man with connections to WikiLeaks (thinly disguised as “Organization 1” in the document); that he vigorously mined his network to suggest questions for WikiLeaks to answer, amid a media blitz in which he touted upcoming leaks about Trump’s Democratic challenger, Hillary Clinton. The indictment identifies Stone’s WikiLeaks connection only as “Person 1,” but news reports have repeatedly identified him as the author and conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi. The indictment identifies Stone’s favorite media contact as “Person 2,” someone who is widely believed to be Randy Credico, a dog-fancying talk-show host who comes off as a slightly dim off-Broadway understudy for the role of Stone. The common theme of Stone’s compulsive texts and emails to Corsi, Credico, and the Trump campaign was not just an appetite for dirt on Clinton, but Stone’s own relentless self-promotion. It appears he was successful in getting the attention he wanted—the indictment reveals that a “high-ranking Trump Campaign official” sent Stone a text message reading “well done” after WikiLeaks released stolen Clinton campaign emails in October 2016.

. . . .

Most cinematically, the special counsel charges that Stone turned on Credico, bullying and threatening him in an effort to get Credico to shut up or support Stone’s story. The indictment says that Stone quoted Richard Nixon: “Stonewall it. Plead the fifth. Anything to save the plan.” Stone, according to the indictment, also invoked The Godfather: Part II, telling Credico to do a “Frank Pentangeli,” referencing a character who tells Congress he knows nothing of Michael Corleone and then kills himself in prison. Perhaps Stone hoped that Credico hadn’t watched the whole movie. Eventually, Stone allegedly turned to abuse and threats, calling Credico a rat and a stoolie, threatening to take his dog away, and telling him to “prepare to die,” the indictment said. Stone did all of this in writing because—again—Roger Stone can’t stop being Roger Stone. Credico, for his part, repeatedly advised Stone to smarten up, stop perjuring himself, and tell the truth. When Randy Credico is the most sensible person in your indictment, you’ve fallen upon hard times.

It’s all very funny — and but for some grumpy editors lacking a sense of humor, it could have been even funnier:

Ken notes that the communications with Wikileaks alleged in the indictment are not criminal in and of themselves, although they would have been damaging to Trump’s candidacy had they been revealed before the election.

It’s so weird how Trump is surrounded by criminals — his campaign manager, his national security adviser, his lawyer and fixer, his buddies and media pals — and yet is not a criminal himself! (Hopefully you can hear the eyeroll in my writing.)

UPDATE: I added a third paragraph to the quotation above. It’s too good not to quote.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

143 Responses to “Ken White on the Roger Stone Indictment”

  1. well that’s one view of the matter:

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/01/more-mueller-madness-18.php

    admittedly he behaved stupidly, but as compared to say ben Rhodes who negotiated deals with the ayatollah and the castro regime, without any understanding of either, and he could get away with it, because the reporters were stupider than he was,

    narciso (d1f714)

  2. it’s kinda sleazy how he’s such a cheerleader for the corrupt kgb-fbi

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. Corsi blows hot and cold, some conjectures were dubious, but considering the total media whitewash of Obama’s associations and beliefs not totally unwarranted, 10 years later we are still not really dealing with his injuries to the body politic,

    narciso (d1f714)

  4. corsi’s a fluffernutter and serves mostly as an indicator of the desperation cowardly ex-marine Bobby Mueller and his sleazy slimy Chris Wray kgb-fbi must be feeling to find something anything to put meat on this bone

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. It’s a procedure crime. That’s all they’ll get Trump or any of his cohort on.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  6. that’s because there’s no underlying crime

    one of the guys what was banging fbi pass-around girl lisa page admitted that from the very beginning

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. 6. I think Trump is a criminal in the same sense that Bill Clinton was/is a criminal. They’re just really good at not getting caught.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  8. where does fast and furious fall into, just mere negligence, how about the excerpting of half a million felons from the ncic,

    re financial crime, lets leave out the lackluster enforcement of rules upon the subprime cartel, or tim geithner’s consecutive tax avoidance, how about the massive insurance fraud that steve rattner the auto czar was a party to,

    narciso (d1f714)

  9. but what the sleazy kgb-fbi is showing us is that anybody’s a criminal if that’s what the plan calls for

    they have entire departments teams and units devoted to incriminating innocent people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. It’s so weird how Trump is surrounded by criminals — his campaign manager, his national security adviser, his lawyer and fixer, his buddies and media pals — and yet is not a criminal himself!

    It’s pretty simple really – sewage like Trump attracts bottom-feeders like Stone, Manafort, Cohen, etc.

    Mali aurantii est.

    Dave (8ee42c)

  11. It’s pretty simple really – sewage like Trump attracts bottom-feeders like Stone, Manafort, Cohen, etc.

    nonono

    president trump’s a good and noble leader and America’s on the move!

    in short there’s simply not

    a more congenial spot

    for happy-ever-aftering than here

    that’s why we all love Trump

    a lot

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. Lift up the rock; you’ll find the Stone.

    “I like English tailoring. I like Italian shoes. I like French wine.” – Roger Stone
    ___________

    Per his wiki-bio, the stylish Stone chummed with the likes of Roy Cohn as well as dirty-deed-doers Manafort and Atwater making mudpies; was inspired by Goldwater and a self-professed activist in the Nixon, Dole, Reagan, Kemp and 30-year-friend-Trump campaigns; has graced the pages of GQ and that ol’wholesome ‘family values’ pub, Penthouse; does not buy ‘off the rack'; prefers tailored suits w/over 100 silvered ties and 100 suits in storage. And as of 2007 owned five expensive Jaguars automobiles and five pricey, pedigreed Yorkshire terriers.

    Website celebritynetworth.com estimates Roger Stone’s net worth at $5 million. All the more amusing for partner-in-crime Michael Caputo to set up a GoFundMe ‘defense fund’ page for the dapper dirty-trickster because the GOP’s Yankee-Doodle-Dandy supposedly ‘can’t afford’ his legal defense.

    And although he really, really does worship ‘The Big Dick,’ –as the tramp stamp shows– that love may go unrequited these days. Quaker Milhouse, for all his demons and flaws, was a cottage-cheese-and-ketchup kind of guy. Accordingly, even the Nixon Foundation found it necessary to protect the legacy w/a splash guard and issue a statement on Friday formally distancing itself from Stone, shoving the flamboyant ‘Nixon-lover’ far out of the nest, citing his youth and minimal contributions to the campaigns.

    “Shady Tree! We loved your act!”- Mr. Wint [Bruce Glover] ‘Diamonds Are Forever’ 1971

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. yeah those economics suggest a proper legal defense would be a big lift

    the kgb-fbi has unlimited resources and no ethical restraints

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  14. @13. Public defender aside, sell a Jag and ‘screw the pooches,’ Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  15. Stone seems to be a loudmouth braggart who couldn’t stop himself from lying (or “mis-remembering”?) in his testimony to Congress, etc.
    But his indictment seems to reveal what DIDN’T happen:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/roger-stone-indictment-underscores-no-trump-russia-conspiracy/

    ColoComment (b48a15)

  16. but he worked hard for all that stuff and now the sleazy kgb-fbi is gonna rape him

    it’s fundamentally unamerican

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. “It’s so weird how Trump is surrounded by criminals — his campaign manager, his national security adviser, his lawyer and fixer, his buddies and media pals — and yet is not a criminal himself! (Hopefully you can hear the eyeroll in my writing.)”

    Yes, ‘criminals.’ I can definitely hear the verbal streeeeeeeeeeeeeetching involved in comparing Trump to Hillary or any of the other people to any of Hillary’s people, or any active prosecutors on the SC for that matter.

    Only one side has a trail of poorly-explained dead bodies behind it.

    Teferi (61a840)

  18. @16. It’s not ‘rape’ if he says ‘yes’ to being pro bono-ed, Mr. Feet; plenty of ambulance chasers seek fame, fortune and publicity, which is very American.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. no the way they do it it’s still rape

    they dirty men and women of the sleazy fbi pride themselves on this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. It’s a procedure crime.

    Another way to describe “procedure crime or “process crime” is felony. I remember similar arguments about Bill Clinton, that he just “lied about sex”, when what he really did was undermine our American justice system by putting his hand on the Bible and then committing perjury and obstruction of justice.
    P.S. I don’t know if Mueller will nail Trump on perjury, but I think it’s probable that the Special Counsel will cite Trump for obstruction (lots of obstruction), suborning of perjury and campaign finance violations.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  21. As compared to samuel Berger he stole and destroyed classified documents purposed for a govt inquiry, he was given a slap on the wrist.

    Narciso (2fd6a3)

  22. How about kiriakou he gave up the names of interrogators and their families to the attorneys for terrorists, he got a pittance.

    Narciso (2fd6a3)

  23. So the lesson is they would rather have fake Russian dossier than real evidence of how corrupt Clinton was, and how compromised every major correspondent was to her campaign

    Narciso (2fd6a3)

  24. But whatabout, whatabout…

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  25. it’s not like the kgb-fbi’s gonna stop being corrupt and fascist after they lynch trump

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. Btw the maduro regime has decided to retire the evacuation order from the embassy compounds

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article225129345.html#storylink=mainstage_card2

    Narciso (2fd6a3)

  27. “Ken notes that the communications with Wikileaks alleged in the indictment are not criminal in and of themselves, although they would have been damaging to Trump’s candidacy had they been revealed before the election.”

    I now see why there was a need for a 29 agent, 17 vehicle commando raid to take this sad man into custody.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  28. He might have struck then with a tie clip coronello, meanwhile James Carville was the cameo for the creature in dreamscape

    Narciso (2fd6a3)

  29. Who was it – Kevin or nk – who wrote in the other thread of the damage done when Americans see trusted institutions abused and weaponized by alleged public servants?

    It seems this has been going on for years now…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. Mr. M done some lovely commenting recently

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. When did the Wikileaks info become public… July of 2016?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. fricken Bengazi never had this much armor, JHC – I can’t stand the U.S. gubmint.

    mg (8cbc69)

  33. And then there is Dave, lecturing us about sewage. We smell you.

    mg (8cbc69)

  34. Mainstream media is poisoning America, but let’s get outraged by some sad, ridiculous old man.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. Let me see.
    A man who spent his whole life grifting, cheating, and engaging in corrupt practices, as evidenced by his own statements and publicly available records, is elevated to political office. There are a number of reasons, including his own statements, to believe he is compromised by a foreign power. (It doesn’t matter which, so let’s say it is Andorra.)

    It is the apparent opinion of Narciso, Haiku, and several others here, that the law enforcement officials who have the responsibility of investigating such things, should have ignored all that.

    Kishnevi (a21714)

  36. the evidence they opened the investigation on was a packet of lies ferried to them by a coward-ass dirty mil-piggy named John McCain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  37. Half the people in this threat are going “but Clintons, but Clintons, but Clintons.” They’ve been investigated eleventy-million times. Are they that much more clever than the Republicans investigating them, or are the Republican investigators that bad, or are the Republican investigators that corrupt? Is every state AG office in the country in the bag for the Clintons? Or is this a lie people have been telling themselves? Maybe it’s that the Clintons are unethical, but generally not criminal, because almost nobody is that good at covering up evidence over a period of 30 years. I’m tired of hearing “but the Clintons.” There have been multiple Republican administrations and fully Republican governments and yet there are never any convictions. Heck, there are almost never even any indictments. They need to either put-up or shut-up about the Clintons (and the IRS, and fast and furious and whatever else random thing, either do something about it or get over it).

    Narciso was fussing about something that happened in the 60s that got investigated and a conviction when he thought it hadn’t. Are we going to go back and whine about Franklin D Roosevelt next?

    How far back is it going to go to avoid dealing with the fact that the GUY in there NOW is surrounded by an incompetent and corrupt criminal class that he may or may not be a participant in?

    Nic (896fdf)

  38. Yeah ain’t it funny how all these poor persecuted cherubs just happen to be telling felonious lies about the same thing? I’m sure that’s just a coincidence we should continue to ignore.

    JRH (fe281f)

  39. and yet the only crimes the dirty kgb-fbi can uncover on these guys are the ones that spring directly from having been entangled in their dirty kgb-fbi “investigation”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. Trump is an individual of poor character, and it was great mistake for the American people to elect him.

    Trump is also the legitimately elected President, and it’s terrible for our democracy to have a special counsel taking down those surrounding him with indictments for process crimes, i.e., crimes that would not exist but for the criminal investigation itself. We only have one President, and it’s hard to see how he can function while worrying about whether a family member will be indicted (or whether a sealed indictment will be waiting for him at the end of his term in office).

    Brian (0bc4f4)

  41. “It is the apparent opinion of Narciso, Haiku, and several others here, that the law enforcement officials who have the responsibility of investigating such things, should have ignored all that.”

    Let me know when there’s an actual crime involved, kishnevi. Something our nation’s law enforcement hasn’t ignored if/when a Democrat was involved.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. “law enforcement” lol

    that’s a complete misnomer with this trashy bunch

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  43. and yet they keep not telling the truth to the FBI.

    Nic (896fdf)

  44. this would be the dirty FBI whose trashy bimbo agents never records their interviews?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  45. *recrd* their interviews i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. ugh *record* sorry i’m multiple-tisking

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. @42 So the President should just be able to break the law and nobody can look into it because it might stress him out? The 90s are calling, they’d like you to read their history.

    Nic (896fdf)

  48. Let me know when there’s an actual crime involved, kishnevi. Something our nation’s law enforcement hasn’t ignored if/when a Democrat was involved

    Oh, I see. Because you think Hillary and Obama were corrupt, you think it’s doesn’t matter if Trump is corrupt.

    Kishnevi (a21714)

  49. Trump is also the legitimately elected President, and it’s terrible for our democracy to have a special counsel taking down those surrounding him with indictments for process crimes, i.e., crimes that would not exist but for the criminal investigation itself.

    The old-fashioned name for “process crime” is “cover-up”.

    Cover-ups wouldn’t be crimes if not for the investigation, it’s true. I don’t think that means we should ignore them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  50. @46 yep. even if the agent is wearing a soiled, hot-pink satin skirt and do-me heels. They still are supposed to tell it the truth.

    Nic (896fdf)

  51. Well I note they only started considering officials illegitimate after Nixon, yes there was a special counsel with the black hawk scandal tea pot dome was exaggerated in its impact we can go back to credit mobilier but that didnt require special circumstances.

    Narciso (724059)

  52. what law has president trump even conceivably broken

    maybe the coward-ass marine piece of trash in charge of this dirty rosytwat investigation could maybe shed a little light on that maybe after three years maybe

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  53. “I don’t think that means we should ignore them.”

    And yet law enforcement often does.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. lisa page is an autumn her bimbo skirt would be more like an orange or maybe a golden beige

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. fbi sows have to show off their hardware, like children at christmas.
    thugs.

    mg (8cbc69)

  56. I take the long view, FDR used the power of his office to suppress any real political opposition JFK and lbj did much the same way with the IRS and other agencies, but Nixon omh. Now the things we should hold him in low regard like wage and price controls the establishment of the gosplam that is the EPA are not.

    Narciso (724059)

  57. I dont know if page and strzok really had a relationship or they just corresponded like the cast of mean girls but they seem to have arranged many coincidences re the counter Intel investigation

    Narciso (724059)

  58. Mr. M done some lovely commenting recently

    Why thank you 😉

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  59. Cynical.

    A dozen immigrant workers at one of President Donald Trump’s golf clubs in New York who are in the U.S. illegally were fired this month even though managers had known about their legal status for years, a lawyer for the workers said Saturday.
    As the president railed during the partial government shutdown against immigrants coming into the country illegally, a manager at the Trump National Golf Club in Westchester County called a dozen immigrant workers into a room one by one Jan. 18 and fired them, said lawyer Anibal Romero.
    Many of them had worked at the club for a dozen or more years, he said, and managers knew they had submitted phony documents but looked the other way.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  60. Yeah, credit where it’s due: Spanky & Co. is making SNL Great Again:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-martin-nails-roger-stone-on-snl-pardon-me?ref=home

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  61. Right when there is no accountability to the persecutor when the media is almost entirely in the formers pocket, tell me another one

    https://spectator.org/trump-wont-supply-rope-for-his-hanging/
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2646036748740590&id=100000028723993&anchor_composer=false

    Narciso (a0a0bf)

  62. You can whine about the prosecutor all you want Narciso, but Spanky’s is being picked apart, bit by bit on the international stage, and he has no one to blame but himself. How embarrassing.

    Con Don: “I’ll just become President, and no one will ever find out what’s going on.”

    How stupid and/or conceited can one man be, anyway?

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  63. Which the same megastate like the EU that has no desire to challenge China and is dependent on Russia for a key resource which let an invasion force overwhelm all of their resources and hence they target their nativs citizens

    Narciso (a0a0bf)

  64. Tillman (61f3c8) — 1/26/2019 @ 10:34 pm

    But, of course, the major highlight came when Martin emerged as a bespeckled Stone, who told Carlson, “What a fun couple of days. I’m loving the ride. Go Nixon!”

    Bespectacled, not bespeckled. Sigh.

    felipe (023cc9)

  65. Of course I would respond to Ken white but the Atlantic shut me out, because they are all about honest debate,

    Narciso (a0a0bf)

  66. I have faith in Jury Nullification. The jury can tell the gestspo court and Mueller to go pound sand.

    mg (8cbc69)

  67. @49. That’s only a mild caricature of my position. We have one President, from which all executive power flows, and we need that President unencumbered from a criminal process whose abuses are not effectively checked. The President himself is effectively checked, by both the electoral process and by Congress’s power to impeach.

    Brian (0bc4f4)

  68. “Politics ain’t pattycake and expecting someone to love and adore people on the other side of the aisle who disagree with him on fundamental issues is probably a bridge too far.

    Still, every American has a right to expect equal treatment under the law and from government agencies. There’s also a fundamental American belief in fair play. That means whatever rules we come up with get applied to everyone equally. It means that right is right even if you don’t agree with the person who benefits from that. It means that it is immoral to lie about someone even if you disagree with him. It means that at the end of the day, we put the good of the country ahead of our own petty political disagreements.

    Those are the sorts of foundational customs and mores that allow people with wildly divergent viewpoints to live together in a functional society. The very fact that the Left has rapidly moved away from those principles is why our society has become increasingly dysfunctional. This is a tendency liberals have not just here, but everywhere.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/long-term-how-do-we-live-with-the-sorts-of-people-smearing-maga-hat-teen-nick-sandmann/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  69. 62… see Don Quixote, windmills…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. “It’s rare to see a major media outlet be so honest about its ideological bias. But yet there was New York Times reporter Dan Levin on Twitter the other day, openly soliciting negative stories about Christian schools. “I’m a New York Times reporter writing about #exposechristianschools,” Levin tweeted, “Are you in your 20s or younger who went to a Christian school? I’d like to hear about your experience and its impact on your life. Please DM me.”

    It would take a saint-like leap of faith to believe that Levin, as he later claimed, was merely looking for an array of stories related to Christian schools. Anyone who’s ever worked as a journalist can tell you that “exposing” someone does not typically — or perhaps, ever — entail the pursuit of positive stories.

    You probably won’t be surprised to learn, then, that the #exposechristianschools hashtag Levin used did not initially go viral because Twitter users were anxious to share their enriching experiences in Christian-based educational institutions. The tag was predominately used to dox and smear the Covington Catholic School kids. . . .

    The New York Times’ long history of prejudicial coverage of religious Christians should cement your skepticism about its intentions. Even while the newspaper was rifling through Twitter looking for people who had been damaged by a traditional Christian education, it was running a fawning profile on the overtly racist and anti-Semitic “Black Hebrew Israelites.” The piece opens with the line: “They are sidewalk ministers who use confrontation as their gospel.”

    Christian schools, of course, irritate the sensibilities of contemporary Democrats for a number of reasons. It’s not only that students who attend them are often saved from the leftist cultural and political indoctrination, but also that the very existence of parochial schools, private schools and home schooling undermines their institutional political monopoly.”

    https://nypost.com/2019/01/25/exposing-the-times-anti-christian-bias/t would take a saint-like leap of faith to believe that Levin, as he later claimed, was merely looking for an array of stories related to Christian schools. Anyone who’s ever worked as a journalist can tell you that “exposing” someone does not typically — or perhaps, ever — entail the pursuit of positive stories.

    You probably won’t be surprised to learn, then, that the #exposechristianschools hashtag Levin used did not initially go viral because Twitter users were anxious to share their enriching experiences in Christian-based educational institutions. The tag was predominately used to dox and smear the Covington Catholic School kids. . . .

    The New York Times’ long history of prejudicial coverage of religious Christians should cement your skepticism about its intentions. Even while the newspaper was rifling through Twitter looking for people who had been damaged by a traditional Christian education, it was running a fawning profile on the overtly racist and anti-Semitic “Black Hebrew Israelites.” The piece opens with the line: “They are sidewalk ministers who use confrontation as their gospel.”

    Christian schools, of course, irritate the sensibilities of contemporary Democrats for a number of reasons. It’s not only that students who attend them are often saved from the leftist cultural and political indoctrination, but also that the very existence of parochial schools, private schools and home schooling undermines their institutional political monopoly.”

    https://nypost.com/2019/01/25/exposing-the-times-anti-christian-bias/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. Whoops, sorry, coffee’s on…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. Trump’s refusal to provide the rope for his own hanging is treated by the ruling class as the greatest scandal in the story.

    Interesting to know that Neumayr is implying that Trump is guilty, given that Trump has the rope, i.e., evidence, to hang himself. The guy can’t even get his facts straight, saying that “the two still work at the FBI”: Strzok was fired and Page quit, probably ahead of getting sacked.

    Paul Montagu (3417e9)

  73. Oh, nevermind. It was 1/26/2018, not 1/26/2019.

    Paul Montagu (3417e9)

  74. You almost achieved it, only to be denied…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  75. Well, that Neumayr believed Trump was guilty a year ago is true.

    Paul Montagu (3417e9)

  76. Confirmation bias for teh win…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. Another point emphasized by The Godfather: Part II is that the government is just another mob, not unlike the Corleones.

    Had Stone used FusionGPS and FISA warrants, instead of WikiLeaks, all would’ve been kosher.

    Munroe (b1fc19)

  78. Confirmation bias for teh win…

    It wasn’t my link, it was Narcie’s. All I did was read and make a fairly obvious conclusion.

    Paul Montagu (3417e9)

  79. Had Stone used FusionGPS and FISA warrants, instead of WikiLeaks, all would’ve been kosher.

    people are saying our sleazy corrupt FISA courts need to be investigated top to bottom

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. No paulie he meant it metaphorically, fusion and crowdstrike were the sources for this investigation, and their work has been shoddy at best.

    Narciso (2f47fb)

  81. Off topic, because this is the current active thread.

    In December Beldar told happyfeet:

    Those aren’t facts, happyfeet, and they don’t support your earlier libel. You called my friend “dirty,” “unethical,” and “sleazy,” and then segued from that into saying something nasty about the FBI, which is an entirely different branch of government. If you have any facts to show that Rosemary Collier is dirty, unethical, or sleazy, then state them. If not, then be aware that you’re giving me, at least, very severe offense, and that I shall never forget or forgive it.

    I don’t want to see any more comments from happyfeet calling the head of the FISA court “corrupt.”

    That is all.

    Patterico (c57a50)

  82. why didn’t they ask any questions why did they just rubberstamp?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  83. even the simpering mukluks at NR refer to FISA-gate

    it’s a real thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  84. Rudolph Contreras was the one what for sure rubberstamped a FISA warrant after another judge rejected it that’s public record

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  85. there is a smell test here that has not been passed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. and by the way i never said a single little thing about Rosemary that’s an untrue statement to say

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. Politics is dirty, news at 11.

    That the Clintons and their ilk are protected for great crimes and intentionally incompetently prosecuted; while every effort is made to use every jot and tittle of the law against any conservative or those who threaten the ruling class’s power; this also is without refute.

    (Wow, what a horrible sentence.)

    Ingot9455 (0433d6)

  88. oh and by the way Beldar’s friend’s name is actually spelled Collyer not Collier

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. Well said…

    “The public—though not, for the most part, the academic elite—has reacted with condign disgust at the treatment of the boys from Covington Catholic. It knows that Nathan Phillips is no more “native American” than Nick Sandmann: both were born here and have equal title to American natality. And it senses that the culprit is the political correctness that has distorted our common life and even our ability to speak the truth about sensitive issues. If there is a silver lining in this disturbing episode, it is that public revulsion at this episode may, just possibly, spark a reconsideration of our ill-advised and demeaning adherence to the tenets of political correctness.”

    https://amgreatness.com/2019/01/26/a-better-guide-than-elite-opinion-is-public-revulsion-at-it/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  90. and where’s muh Russian Collusion ?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  91. and where’s muh Russian Collusion ?

    Right where it’s always been…

    To: Donald Trump, Jr.

    Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.

    From: Donald Trump, Jr

    Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

    To: Donald Trump, Jr.

    Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.

    I believe you are aware of the meeting – and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you?

    I assume it would be at your office.

    From: Donald Trump, Jr.

    Great. It will likely be Paul Manafort (campaign boss) my brother in law and me. 725 Fifth Ave 25th floor.

    Dave (1bb933)

  92. If only Don Jr. had known a meeting with FusionGPS, Steele and his Russian sources instead would’ve been above board.

    Munroe (a87e97)

  93. Evidence that was not used, unlike the fusion dossier,

    Narciso (2f47fb)

  94. Ohhhhhh yeahhhhhhh https://youtu.be/3mz3G5xaECs

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. If only Don Jr. had known a meeting with FusionGPS, Steele and his Russian sources instead would’ve been above board.

    If they had contracted and paid for a service (as was the case with Fusion GPS), and declared the expense as required by law (as was the case with Fusion GPS), it would have been legal, yes.

    Obviously, revealing that the Russian government and intelligence agencies were working for the campaign might have been problematic. The cultists would rationalize and excuse it as they do everything, of course, but some people who love their country would have drawn the proper conclusions.

    Dave (1bb933)

  96. nazi bob has no everdunce of collusion

    he’s punching down to get attaboys from his ivy league trash peers

    and to drag this out and out and out

    and he’s destroying a lot of people’s lives

    and this is who he is

    good lord the poop that comes out the us military sewer

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. Don Jr. always makes me think of Carl’s Jr. which had a very serviceable little turkey burger at one point

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  98. Wikileaks provided info, the press didnt care to, this is why they turned on Assange, after a dozen pulitzers from the info he aggregated.

    Narciso (2f47fb)

  99. Still breaking boards with the head I see…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  100. yes yes wikileaks formed in the news vacuum left by the abdication of failmerican journalism

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. Also consider the paradise and Panama papers those were purloined materials but selectively leaked.

    Narciso (2f47fb)

  102. Dave @95. That’s not collusion because Russia did not, in fact, provide people in the Trump campaign with any “information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia” (which doesn’t make too much sense in the first place – it would make sense for somebody anti-Putin maybe but this is supposed to be part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump!) Of course you can imagine very devious acts by Putin where he shifts blame for his corruption to someone else.

    Sounds like this is supposed to be information uncovered in a corruption investigation in Russia. What else?

    Exceot that didn’t happen.

    This leak, if true, would have been maybe illegal under Russian law – can the “The Crown prosecutor of Russia” [sic] legally leak tightly held incriminating information about someone to persons in a foreign country who would be interested in receiving it? But not under U.S. law, unless you want to really stretch the law on campaign contributions in a direction that it would not be safe to take it for almost any campaign.

    I think it is possible that Natalya Veselnitskaya intended to give Donald J. Trump Jr. some false information about Hillary, at the same time telling him to keep it secret for now, but because there were too many people in the meeting she, or her cotrollers, decided to just change the subject. Or mayeb thsiw as really just an excuse to get ameeeting in an attempt to subtly (too subtly maybe for Donald Trump Jr to catch) lobby against the Magnitsky Act.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  103. Evidence that was not used, unlike the fusion dossier,

    We only have the conspirators’ (one of whom is a fugitive from justice for perjury and another who has already been convicted of fraud and pleaded guilty to making false statements) word for what transpired at that meeting.

    Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton claim they just exchanged pleasantries about sports and grandchildren during their tarmac meeting, too…

    Dave (1bb933)

  104. Don Jr. always makes me think of Carl’s Jr. which had a very serviceable little turkey burger at one point

    their double-western bacon cheeseburger is heavenly

    it’s got bacon AND onion rings!

    Dave (1bb933)

  105. i only discovered recently that Carl’s Jr. and Hardees are the same restaurants with different names

    so you might want to keep that in mind in your travels

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. 39. Nic (896fdf) — 1/26/2019 @ 8:18 pm

    39.Half the people in this threat are going “but Clintons, but Clintons, but Clintons.” They’ve been investigated eleventy-million timesAre they that much more clever than the Republicans investigating them,

    Not clever, exoerienced, and heir to many practical lessons about coverups – at least Bill Clinton, who may ahve an encyclopediac knowledge of how to get away with things, is.

    or are the Republican investigators that bad,

    Yes, and lawyers for ordinary people, too.

    or are the Republican investigators that corrupt?

    Sometimes that’s also involved.

    Is every state AG office in the country in the bag for the Clintons?

    There’s ways and there’s ways. In 1994 Bill Clinton almost succeeded in outting all possible investigations into himself into the hands of a lawyer whom he could trust: Robert B. Fiske Jtr. That play failed (but did succeed in limiting investigators to only one) but he did have informers in Kenneth Starr’s office, like Samuel Dash, (in my opinion.)

    The Monica Lewisnky case just developed too fast for him to do much about heading it off. It helped that this was a relatively trivial matter. He also still had the help of inside information and at one point in his testimonmy almost revealed he knew how Monica Lewinsky had defined sex.

    Or is this a lie people have been telling themselves? Maybe it’s that the Clintons are unethical, but generally not criminal, because almost nobody is that good at covering up evidence over a period of 30 years.

    Oh, they didn’t cover it up so well. Just prevented legal action from being taken.

    Almost nobody is correct.

    The murder of the Branch Davidians at Waco could have been covered up by nodboy but Bill Clinton.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  107. Would that all who make false statements that have actual impact on the lives of people be prosecuted to the full extent of the law… that would empty out a lot of “hallowed” places.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  108. I say start with Congress and then move to colleges and universities, etc.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  109. Back in November 2010, Wikileaks claimed they had an upcoming document dump on Russia. Russia responded with some not-so-veiled threats, and the dump was never released. I believe that Russia gave Assange “an offer he couldn’t refuse” at which point Wikileaks was co-opted by Russian Intelligence.

    Davethulhu (9a0ae2)

  110. as I recall there were document dumps on every country,

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/26/toensing-mueller-stone/

    but the press lapped up, every morsel as with the snowden leak, didn’t matter whose lives were affected, now you get in the business of one particularly political figure and his kept press,
    ragnarok,

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. 109
    I”d rather search out a locally owned restaurant than give my money to corporate grease balls.

    mg (8cbc69)

  112. I’m not doing fast food just sushi for now especially cause I’m wah full time

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  113. I”d rather search out a locally owned restaurant than give my money to corporate grease balls.

    Nothing wrong with corporations.

    Unless you’re a pinko-commie socialist, of course.

    Dave (1bb933)

  114. @110 I’m sorry, I don’t buy that every law enforcement agency in the country was snowed by or in the bag for the Clintons. They aren’t the Illuminati. He was a non-connected nobody governor from Arkansas who happened to have good political acumen. If you want to tell me that the Kennedys or the Bushes are that connected, I might believe you, but the Clintons in 92? Not a chance.

    Nic (896fdf)

  115. From Rich Galen:

    https://www.mullings.com/currentissue.htm

    * I am not, as you know by now, Donald J. Trump’s biggest fan.

    Nevertheless, over the past month, he has done something I never
    thought possible.

    * Trump made me root for Nancy Pelosi.

    * I respect Nancy Pelosi, but I don’t like her much. Actually, I
    don’t know her, so “I don’t like her politics and policies” would
    be a more meaningful statement.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    * Trump did not admit that, without the threats he has used his
    entire life to get his way, he is impotent – at least politically.
    In fact, he Tweeted “I wish people would read or listen to my
    words on the Border Wall. This was in no way a concession.”

    Don’t scoff. Trump has, like Steve Jobs had, a “reality distortion
    field” around him.

    * He’s not faking the fact that he doesn’t accept that he got
    creamed by Pelosi. As far has Trump is concerned, the
    funding/shutdown situation is exactly where it was back on
    December 22, 2018 when Rs still controlled the Senate and the
    House.

    * In Trump’s mind, he didn’t have to give up anything because
    everything is status quo ante, so what’s all the hubbub about?

    I think part of the problem is that no Democrats are arguing in principle against border control.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  116. Nic (896fdf) — 1/27/2019 @ 1:34 pm

    @110 I’m sorry, I don’t buy that every law enforcement agency in the country was snowed by or in the bag for the Clintons. They aren’t the Illuminati. He was a non-connected nobody governor from Arkansas who happened to have good political acumen.

    he was not a nobody.

    For instance he fooled many people into thinking he came from Hope, Arkansas, when in rea;ity he came from Hot ZSprings, Arkansas.

    He had created Super Tuesday in 1988.

    He wss more connected than anybody else. his political godfater was the founder (or one of the key founders) of organzied crime in America, and political boss of Hot Springs Arkansas circa 1935-1948 and again circa 1954-1965 when he died, Owen Vincent (Owney the Killer Madden 1892-1965.

    If you want to tell me that the Kennedys or the Bushes are that connected, I might believe you, but the Clintons in 92? Not a chance.

    You’re wrong.

    Clinton even fooled people into thinking he had balanced 11 budgets in a row and was never called on it. When Arkansas had a 2-year budget. And he was out of office 1980-1982.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  117. Clinton ran McGovern;s campaign in texas in 1972. Hillary believed Bill woidl become presdxidenmt in 1974 and told Bernard Nussbaum that.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  118. well new York atty general, us atty, da for Westchester county, no one seems interested in investigating the Clinton foundation, what is one to conclude,

    narciso (d1f714)

  119. Stone’s threats, including death threats, against witnesses were likely why the FBI decided to arrest him:

    Roger Stone’s Arrest Was Appropriate, Not Heavy-Handed

    Stone was also charged with witness tampering, a crime that strikes at the heart of the judicial process. There are numerous allegations in the indictment of Stone urging others to lie. Those urgings clearly run afoul of the witness tampering statute. And, if that’s all there was to it, a summons might be the way to go.

    But there is a more compelling reason to arrest him. The devil is in the details. Read, for instance, page 20 of the indictment, where prosecutors note that Stone emailed one witness and called him a “rat” and a “stoolie” and threatened to take that witness’s dog away from him. In another email that same day to that same witness, according to the indictment, Stone wrote “I am so ready. Let’s get it on. Prepare to die [expletive].”

    Law enforcement simply does not hand a summons to someone who threatens to kill a witness and trust that person to act responsibly with it. No conscientious prosecutor would think a summons appropriate there, or think that a threat to kill a witness is simply what targets of grand jury investigations routinely do.

    If anybody knows a “conscientious prosecutor”, perhaps we could ask them directly about that last assertion.

    Oh wait, I know one!

    I’d love Patterico’s opinion on the degree of force used […]

    Absolutely standard […]

    Dave (1bb933)

  120. right, they’ve known of that email for how long, credico was the one with the Assange contact, because he’s a far left twit going back to the cold war, he dropped the comedy but was too abrasive to follow bill maher or the other idiot jesters into commentary,

    narciso (d1f714)

  121. OT-

    Memo to Kamala Harris:

    Register w/t FAA; you drone.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. meanwhile glass is at the top of the box office, I was never really a big fan of unbreakable

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. I can see it now…… Dave and Trump having a cheeseburger together at the Hardees.

    mg (8cbc69)

  124. I doubt the burger summit would really work?

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. I’ve got two “brown grandbabies”, how about you, brokedic… er, Brokaw?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  126. 125… yeah, law enforcement circles the wagons, news at 11…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  127. yeah, law enforcement circles the wagons, news at 11…

    I remember when it was liberals who demonized law enforcement, and conservatives who honored them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. @122 You sent me down an interesting rabbit hole, so thank you. I didn’t find any direct connections between Owen Vincent and Clinton (Clinton was only 19 when Vincent died). Clinton’s mother might have known him, though he was significantly older than she as well. I did learn some things about Hot Springs Arkansas (I feel like there’s a movie or TV show or something in there somewhere) and also that I don’t really like Clinton’s writing style. He isn’t very focused.

    If you have any link’s I’d be glad to read them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  129. Owney Madden, he features in a number of Stephen hunter’s earl swagger tales notably hot springs, he was a precursor to the dixie mafia, which is featured a little farther north, in justified,

    narciso (d1f714)

  130. God forbid this travels oceans, but Akmed and faisal on the corner might be 2nd rung sospechosos nowadays: http://abc7chicago.com/20-dead-in-bomb-attack-at-sunday-mass-in-philippine-cathedral/5108589/?sf206690188=1

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  131. Ah well it’s the base of Abu Sayyaf so its their version of chechnya.

    Narciso (d7b944)

  132. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/byron-york-on-closer-examination-roger-stone-indictment-is-less-than-it-seems

    . Some of Mueller’s charges seem somewhat small; for example, Stone was charged with lying because he said he and Credico communicated by phone but not by email when in fact, according to Mueller, they communicated by both phone and email.

    The point here is that if Stone communicated only by phone, there would not remain any record of what they said, but if they communicated by email, a record could very well exist or be retrieved. So that would constitute obstruction of justice (that is, his investigation. Mueller would not be able to double check what Stone told Congress.)

    Mueller charged Stone with making a false statement because Stone had also contacted Jerome Corsi, not just Credico, to act as a go-between with WikiLeaks.

    The thing here is that Mueller thinks Stone was cutting off lines of inquiry.

    there are the parts of Stone’s testimony that Mueller chose not to indict Stone over. Stone’s defense of himself in the “time in the barrel” matter, in his contacts with Guccifer 2.0, and in his lack of direct contacts with WikiLeaks all resulted in no accusations from Mueller. And, of course, the indictment did not charge that Stone knew about the WikiLeaks disclosures beforehand, or that he was involved in any conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia to influence the 2016 election, or that such a conspiracy even existed.

    Not being indicted over a statement doesn’t necessarily mean that a prosecutor thinks it is the truth, but rather that it is simply something that he cannot effectively dispute.

    Stone was also accused of trying to get witnesses to lie.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  133. 135. I didn’t find any direct connections between Owen Vincent and Clinton (Clinton was only 19 when Vincent died)

    About Oeney Madden and Bill Clinton:

    Michael Kelly wrote in The New York Times Magazine in 1994:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/31/magazine/the-president-s-past.html?pagewanted=all

    Clinton’s career began while he still a student at Hot Springs High School, where he was president of his junior class, the Beta Club (for academic achievers) and the Kiwanis Key Club. By his late teens, Clinton was already a semi-professional politician, so greatly in demand as a civics club speaker and leader of charitable fund drives that his high-school principal had to limit his engagements in order to protect his schooling.

    – Article by Michael Kelly in the New York Times Magazine of July 31, 1994, page 25.

    Now that might not seem like too much to you.

    But now read this:

    In his later years, he was a big contributor to charities,
    particularly for young people.

    – Associated Press obituary of resident Hot Springs, Arkansas “retired” gangster Owen Vincent (Owney the Killer) Madden’s in the Saturday, April 24, 1965 New York Times.

    Putting two and two together, Owney Madden was giving money to Bill Clinton!

    I’m not sure you can find the latter quote online, although maybe you can find here: (you have to log in to see it)

    http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1965/04/24/97194668.html?pageNumber=1

    You can enlarge what you see on your screen.

    To get to the “big contributor to charities, particularly for young people” quote you have to jump from the first page to page 16 column 5. Then go up the page to the top. It’s the last thing in the Associated Press story – right before the New York Times proceeds to give a more complete biography. I’m not sure all the facts are right there. I think he might have gotten out of prison before 1925. The Dictionary of National Biography and Wikipedia says it was 1923. That might actually be a very significant lie.

    If there’s any microfilm available anywhere you can get to, you can also see it there.

    I had it wrong about Owney Madden’s year of birth, because originally I had deduced it from his obituary, which did not give it, but it was December 18, 1891 and I had forgotten and went wth my older memory.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  134. I also made an error here:

    political boss of Hot Springs Arkansas circa 1935-1948 and again circa 1954-1965 when he died

    Actally, the machine lost power (the first time) in Hot springs, Arkansas at the end of 1946, not 1948, when Sid McMath became mayor. This si from Shirley temple Abbott’s “The Bookmaker’s Daughter (Tocknor and Fields, 1991) Sid McMAth actually was the on;y winner on the reform ticket in the primary in July, but the reformers ran as idependents and won in the November general election. (This was known as the GI Revolt)

    In 1948 Sid McMAth was elected Governor of Arkansas.

    The machine came back gradually, and was probably back in full control after 1954, with the election of Orval Faubus as Governor of Arkansas.

    Now tradionally, Governors of Arkansas got a pass on the first re-election, after two years, and then didn’t run for the third term. But the Little Rock integrattion controversy was cooked up in 1957, and Orbval faubus was able to run and win a third term. After that he got re-elected every 2 years, while the people in Hot Springs bribed him to let them operate casinos and slot machines in Hot Springs.

    (Bill Clinton’s step-uncle, Buick dealer Raymonmd Clinton was one of the members of the machine and owned slot machines scattered all over town, and meetings were held in his Buick dealership. He also gave Bill Clinton his first job: selling used cars.)

    In 1964 Winthrop Rockfeller ran aaginst him as Republican and lost but he won in 1966. (In 1984 Orval Faubus was brought back as a foil to lose to Bill Clinton, probably with Bill Clinton;s connivance, although that used to get pointed out as an example of how the stephens interests had split from Bill Clinton. Of course Orval fauuus himself probably thought they wanted him to win.)

    Shirley Abbott wrote a lying letter to the New York Times in 1996 (published: June 2, 1996) claiming that all that corruption was before Bill Clinton’s time, but in her book she states quite clearly that it came back.

    Flaunting their mob connections, Owney Madden and a group of investors opened Las Vegas-style casinos in the resort city, including one called the Vapors – a name that amused my literary minded friends in New York. My hometown had become so flagrant, so raucous, that we could read about it almost weekly in the New York Times.

    – The Bookmaker’s Daughter:A Memory Unbound by Shirley Abbott (Ticknor and Fields, 1991) page 272.

    That was published, of course, before Bill Clinton became president.

    In her letter she has

    By 1952, when Bill Clinton arrived there as a small boy, change was already under way, and by the late 1960’s the town was shut tight and has been strictly on the up and up ever since.

    This totally omits the machine’s second coming.

    That she said in her book was chronicled in that very newspaper that letter was published in!

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  135. 148. There wasn’t much publicity about all this organized crime there, you know:

    When Joseph Valachi, the first important Mafia informer, testified before Congress in September, 1963. . .

    Senator McClellan visited him privately in the D.C, jail, just before the hearings began. According to Valachi, he requested that he please skip any mention of Hot Springs, in McClellan’s home state, and the Senate testimony contains no reference to that then-notorious city.

    – The Valachi Papers by Peter Maas, (G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1968) page 20.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  136. Michael Kelly says in his 1994 Mew York Times magazine article:

    “He made his Buick dealership “a gathering place for powerful, politically savvy men in Hot Springs,” Kelley writes. “The big wheels.”

    – Article by Michael Kelly in the New York Times Magazine of July 31, 1994, page 24. hes citing Bill Clinton’s mother’s book.

    Which Bill Clinton went through before it wsas published.

    Besides being a Buick dealer, Raymond Clinton owned slot machines:

    ” “Just through talk, every person in town knew what was going on,” said Clay White, who for 23 years was an FBI agent based in Hot Springs and is now the town’s sheriff. “The violations of the law were more or less accepted,”White said, adding that even Clinton’s uncle Raymond, who owned the local Buick dealership “ran some slot machines that he had scattered throughout town.”

    Even Clinton’ uncle?

    Like he was a nobody

    – July 20, 1992 Macleans Magazine.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)


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