Patterico's Pontifications

11/25/2018

Illegals Storm Border South of San Diego, Throw Projectiles at Agents

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:30 pm



There was a confrontation at the border south of San Diego today, as 500 “migrants” stormed the port of entry at San Ysidro. This is the beginning of the drama of the “caravan” that Democrats said would take months to arrive. If you buy CNN’s spin (I don’t), authorities fired tear gas at the “migrants” — to “disperse” them:

US authorities fire tear gas to disperse migrants at border

A major US-Mexico border crossing in San Diego was closed for hours on Sunday after a group of migrants on the Mexican side rushed the border area, leading US Border Patrol agents to fire tear gas at the group.

About 500 migrants on the Mexican side of the border overwhelmed police blockades near the San Ysidro Port of Entry Sunday afternoon, two journalists at the scene in Tijuana told CNN.
A migrant family runs from tear gas released by US border patrol agents near the fence between Tijuana, Mexico, and San Diego.

A migrant family runs from tear gas released by US border patrol agents near the fence between Tijuana, Mexico, and San Diego.

As the migrants tried to cross the border, authorities on the US side used tear gas to disperse them, the journalists said. Video of the scene showed a cloud of tear gas that sent people running and screaming, including families with young children.

But if you keep reading the story, or if you are active on Twitter, you see a different story:

US Customs and Border Protection said the migrants threw projectiles that struck several agents.

“Border Patrol agents deployed tear gas to dispel the group because of the risk to agents’ safety,” the agency said on Twitter.

Here is the tweet:

More pictures:

The Tweeter in Chief has not directly referenced the story, although a complaint about a 60 Minutes story seems to allude to it:

Illegal aliens cannot be allowed to overrun our border. Period.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

66 Responses to “Illegals Storm Border South of San Diego, Throw Projectiles at Agents”

  1. It looks like deadly force hasn’t been necessary down there…yet. But my assertion that ICE ought to be doing whatever they can to repel this invasion hasn’t changed a bit.

    Gryph (08c844)

  2. 1) The Grey Lady has more details about what happened on the Mexican side.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/25/world/americas/tijuana-mexico-border.html
    2)Of course, if we had a rational immigration system that allowed people a reasonable chance to enter this country legally, this caravan wouldn’t exist. Not that nativism was ever strongly attached to reality…

    Kishnevi (82cec7)

  3. “Of course, if we had a rational immigration system that allowed people a reasonable chance to enter this country legally, this caravan wouldn’t exist. Not that nativism was ever strongly attached to reality…”
    Kishnevi (82cec7) — 11/25/2018 @ 8:19 pm

    Of course. But, I didn’t realize the goal was to make caravans nonexistent. I thought the goal was to defend national interests, but I guess that’s “nativism”.

    Munroe (9ff74e)

  4. So, who do you want fighting for you, some ineffective gentleman, or the lying, hard-case, self centered Trump?

    Some people still don’t get the case for “He’s a bastard, but he’s our bastard.”

    Fred Z (05d938)

  5. Local SD TeeVee affiliates you can follow on the web:

    KUSI; KNSD [NBC]; CBS8 [CBS]; News10[ABC]; Fox5 San Diego [Fox]. Conflicting info; social media inspired- some in Mexico detained for it; Tijuana police overwhelmed, not getting help from Mexican authorities and unable to contain; rumors of a second ‘assault’ planned for after dark unconfirmed; USCBP responded w/tear gas and rubber bullets when elements began kicking in sections of fencing before dusk.

    CNN was reporting w/spot coverage, live. The local stations not carrying contractually obligated NFL games or other sporting events didn’t bother to break in ‘live’ but reported it on their evening newscasts; they opted to carry regular $$$ programming instead. [If it had been a wildfire, they’d have had rolling coverage.]

    “Film at 11.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. 2. Define “reasonable”–we already let in more than a million a year. Also, angry linejumpers who try to tear down border fences are per se “unreasonable” and should be shown the business end of a water cannon until they give up and go to the end of the line.

    M Scott Eiland (b16b32)

  7. “Desperation” does not give one a right to come to our country.

    I’d close the border till those here assimilate. I’d also ban welfare from any immigrant legal or otherwise. Guess that makes me a dirty nativist.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  8. Build the wall and round up every criminal alien and get them the heck out of here. The pictures of these future felons shows them in clean vibrant clothing….

    mg (ebf6c2)

  9. Must be a mobile fashion merchandising migrant.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  10. They’re actors hired by CNN. Probably not true, but not unreasonably so. It is something CNN would do given their history of staging and choreographing protests and demonstrations, including providing the signs.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. Gotta love parents who take their kids to a riot.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  12. Define “reasonable”–we already let in more than a million a year.

    But which million? The quota for Mexico is the same as for Botswana, as if there was a similar clamor. And to fill those slots, there are preferential classes, set up by the trade unions in the 1960s. They are designed to keep out everyone who is not a dependent. Grandma, si, worker, no.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  13. the mother with her barefoot children running away from the rubber bullets being fired at her and the children along with tear gas being fired at them in the picture above. do you think this will make democrats vote for candidates of moderate views or the candidates who promise a conservative and trumpeter free america?

    lany (3d3398)

  14. the daily news feed is now reporting a child was hit in the head by rubber bullets and is in critical condition.

    lany (3d3398)

  15. Your first act of seeking refugee status shouldn’t be to break the rules and create chaos. The operative words should be “please” and “help us”…not “we will not be denied”. There is a lot of compassion here for people seeking to leave countries torn by violence and poverty. But the real work is changing Honduras and Guatemala internally….this border theater just distracts from political and cultural failures in these countries. Latin America needs new economic solutions to pull away from the drug trade…and gang violence.

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  16. Democrats will vote for candidates who promise to repeal the laws against child molestation because they are disgusting degenerate perverts whose real problem with a secure border is that it puts a crimp on drug trafficking and child sex trafficking and raises the prices for both in West Hollywood.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. Shut the fricking border now.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  18. It would be nice if someone would put Trey Gowdy in that horde of aliens.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  19. Ive been warming up in the bullpen my arm is strong and I’m ready to throw rocks at the horde of nicely dressed Soros funded crimaleins.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  20. I never expected much of Trey Gowdy seeing as he came across as a Lucien Wintrich to pre-Kavanaugh Lindsey Graham’s Jim Hoft.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  21. Let’s see how many “migrant” gazing upward-while-holding-toddler-hit-by-rubber bullet (Palestinian-style) photos are ginned up.

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  22. There’s a bit of cognitive dissonance involved with waving a Honduran flag when you are desperately seeking asylum from living in Honduras. I would think this would be the time to be draped in the American flag…and making oneself as endearing as possible.

    It’s also priceless to assault border guards with women and children in harm’s way. They should be trying to build sympathy….not make people wonder if Trump had a point…

    AJ_Liberty (3c84de)

  23. I doubt if many of them qualify for asylum–wanting to come here for a job and a better life isn’t asylum. Not only is the caravan a problem, but the idiots in Congress, like the
    Senator from Hawaii, complaining about the border patrol firing tear gas after having rocks and concrete thrown at them are a large part of the problem as well. No one thinks that the US is serious about defending the border. There are already reports that some organizers have strategically separated the caravan into multiple groups and have told them to rush the border in an effort to overwhelm the border patrol.

    Rochf (877dba)

  24. Isn’t illegal entry still a crime even if you do petition for asylum? They make it over the the fence, take them to the pokey.

    (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
    Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Six months for the first offense, two years for subsequent offenses. Who killed Kate’s Law in the Senate?

    nk (dbc370)

  26. Rochf, the caravan is surely being used for maximum political benefit….and this is a problem…in that we can no longer have sober political discussions….finding solutions, rather than scoring political points. Strip away politics and the sides probably agree on much of this. We no longer have politicians get embarrassed and suffer from that…because they can always run back to their ideological-friendly media and base for protection. Until this stops…politics is…well… depressing.

    With regards to asylum….I agree but this gets to a broader point of guest worker programs….and then keeping track of people who might enter as a guest. How many guest workers make sense for our country….to meet demand while not depressing wages for citizens? A functioning democracy could have this rational discussion and arrive a plan. We don’t have that…

    AJ_Liberty (3c84de)

  27. Speaking of violations of sovereignty, there’s a major one going on in the Crimean region of Ukraine, caused by their dictatorial neighbor. Yesterday, the Putin navy captured three Ukrainian navy vessels in the Kerch Strait, a narrow body of water that separates the Crimean peninsula from the PutinLand mainland to the east. Blockading vessel traffic at the Crimean Bridge bottleneck and capturing vessels without cause is a breach of international law as the Sea of Azov is considered shared territorial waters.

    Under a 2003 treaty between Moscow and Kiev, the Kerch Strait and the Sea of Azov are shared territorial waters.
    But recently there, Russia began inspecting all vessels sailing to or from Ukrainian ports.
    The use of force by Russia to seize Ukrainian vessels – with casualties – is a major escalation. But you won’t hear Moscow taking the blame.

    Putin is not only not taking blame, he’s blaming the Ukrainian ships because they “entered Russian waters illegally”, which is a Big Lie. Because Trump won’t directly criticize Putin for anything, it was left to UN Ambassador Haley to speak up.

    “In the name of international peace and security, Russia must immediately cease its unlawful conduct and respect the navigational rights and freedoms of all states,” Haley said, speaking at an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council late Monday morning.

    Ukraine has enough of a challenge on dry land, but they don’t have a chance on water, in part because of this.

    Russia’s hyperactive naval policing exploits powers granted under a 2003 agreement between Russia and Ukraine, signed long before Ukraine’s pro-Russia regime was toppled, which established joint control of the Sea of Azov. The detentions, delays and uncertainty have strangled Ukrainian ports like Mariupol, the country’s third-largest, and Berdyansk. The Crimean Bridge itself has paralysed 144 of the biggest ships that once called at Mariupol but are too tall to slip under its 33-metre structure. Shipping in and out of one of Ukraine’s principal ports has fallen by a quarter. Meanwhile Ukraine is in no position to fight back. It lost up to 80% of its navy when Crimea was snatched in 2014, and the most formidable vessel of Mariupol’s coast guard is an old fishing boat confiscated from Turkish poachers. It has turned instead to legal counter-attacks, making forlorn appeals to international tribunals.

    Putin should be paying a steeper price for this ongoing slow-motion invasion of a sovereign state. Will Trump raise that price? I doubt it.

    Paul Montagu (8afb2a)

  28. the daily news feed is now reporting a child was hit in the head by rubber bullets and is in critical condition.

    This is the Gaza playbook. Using children as human shields is just about the lowest thing a person can do.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  29. 22 there are also pictures of children holding american flags being tear gases and hit with rubber bullets.I have seen a child hit in the head and bleeding from rubber bullet.

    lany (15e16e)

  30. what the hell is wrong with these people

    they should be thanking head lice jesus the bullets were made out of rubber

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  31. I have seen a child hit in the head and bleeding from rubber bullet.

    You saw them HIT by a rubber bullet? Terrible.

    Or did you just see a Hollywood makeup job?

    Kevin M (a57144)

  32. they don’t value human life the same way we do

    it’s just how their culture developed cause of history or whatever

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  33. Tell that to your inner city peeps, hf.

    urbanleftbehind (64686a)

  34. i walked all the way down mlk to the convention center the other day

    well i started in hyde park and took the burnham trail to 35th then scootered over to MLK by way of Cottage Grove

    did you know elijah muhammad has his own star

    it’s there on the sidewalk

    i couldn’t take a picture cause of my phone died

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  35. i wanted to see the stephen douglas tomb but cause of the phone situation i saved that for another day

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  36. Well, remember his dad was the designated “goomba” candidate for NYC Mayor in ’77 and his older brother the now-governor came up with the “Vote for Cuomo, Not the Homo” slogan against Ed Koch.

    It is sobering enough that the father/son Browns ruled California for 24 of 60 years, and the Daleys 43 years of 63 years in Chicago (with another brother in the scrum for next years replacement), but that the father/son Cuomos have 20 years combined and still going in that same span.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  37. It’s good their love for Mario was unrequited, a little like beto

    Narciso (d1f714)

  38. Scott Walker’s is the center-right analogy to Merrio Kuwo-mo (think Dana Carvey’s GWHB), Narciso.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  39. It is the Gaza playbook. And they were hoping Trump’s orders to shoot would be followed. The goal is anti-AMericanism.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  40. No he was found wanting, Tommy Thompson among some quarters

    Narciso (d1f714)

  41. Probably would have had that level of disappointment, then again Bob dole people!

    Narciso (d1f714)

  42. Load up… https://youtu.be/2dTnvhGHDGA

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  43. 2. Kishnevi (82cec7) — 11/25/2018 @ 8:19 pm

    Of course, if we had a rational immigration system that allowed people a reasonable chance to enter this country legally, this caravan wouldn’t exist

    But of course that’s what the people pushing this don’t want – but they don’t quite say eitehr. they say things like wait in line. They don’t want the degree of desire to enter the United States to be a factor at all. So they need walls and tough punishment.

    Which don’t even work. Not 100%. And at some point even they would say the ends do not justify the means.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  44. Come to think of it, isn’t the purpose of a wall supposed to be that guards would not be needed?

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  45. Well, good! (Pardon the Source):
    http://deadspin.com/brett-kavanaughs-still-coaching-basketball-1830658817

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  46. Not that nativism was ever strongly attached to reality

    I heard that
    Trump said something about paying for everything until they are 85.

    “We’re the only country in the world where a person comes in, has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 85 years with all of those benefits.It’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. And it has to end.”

    He’s not talking about welfare. He’s talking about ordinary people.

    Jeff Sessions used this kind of argument. That every extra person in the United States costs the government X amount of Dollars and is a net loss.

    But this does not means it would be better if, not only wss there no immigration, but almost nobody was born.

    This logic applies to most births by any other mothers too of course.

    Accordoing to thsi reasoning, it would therefore be better for the U.S. governmenbt if nobody but thre richest people had any children.

    Now I will ecplain the fallacy:

    It is possible to make such a claim because of the fact that we have a progressive tax system. and only a small minority of people living here pay a majority of the taxes.

    The fallacy is that the income of the top 1% or top 10% is derived from the income everybody else makes. If they weren’t there, they wouldn’t have such a high income.

    Roughly speaking, about 20% of GDP is collected in taxes and GDP = GDI (gross domestic income.)

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  47. We shouls understand one thing: The people who arranged for some people to throw rocks, are trying to get the United States to make it harder to gain asylum, in order to strengthen current or future dictatorships in Latin America.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  48. nk @ 24:

    Isn’t illegal entry still a crime even if you do petition for asylum? They make it over the the fence, take them to the pokey.

    Then of course, you would be separating children from their parents as you can’t keep minors in detention. (Trump wants Congress to dchange that. It won’t.)

    On top of that you really can’t prosecute that many people.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  49. 23. Rochf (877dba) — 11/26/2018 @ 10:16 am

    23.I doubt if many of them qualify for asylum–wanting to come here for a job and a better life isn’t asylum.

    Neitehr si esxcapinmg from domestidc abuse, or a criminal gang, or anyone besides agovernmenbt threatening your life, or a desire to reunite with family. <blockquote No one thinks that the US is serious about defending the border. Because it is not East Germany.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  50. 15. AJ_Liberty (165d19) — 11/26/2018 @ 6:25 am

    Latin America needs new economic solutions to pull away from the drug trade…and gang violence.

    People leaving is the best pressure. That also worked for backs in the Deep South after 1916, which was the low point.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  51. This is showing once again that the Spanish colonial legacy is bankrupt. All these countries with a small upper class and endless strongmen keeping the masses oppressed in poverty.

    Say what you will about the racism inherent in British colonialism, nearly all of their colonies are democratic constitutional republics today. The few repressive ones (e.g. South Africa, Rhodesia, Dixie) used voter qualifications rather than straight thuggery to keep the masses down.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  52. Once again, I’ll point out that the greatest danger to the Rule of Law in the Trump era comes from the courts.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  53. Tear gas can be lethal and it’s even banned for war:

    Chemical weapons such as CS gas are indiscriminate and ‘uniquely terrorizing in their application,’ which necessitated their ban in combat in 1993…

    Why tear gas, lobbed at migrants on the southern border, is banned in warfare

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  54. then this inconvenience happened,

    https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1067165937307131904

    narciso (d1f714)

  55. Sammy–I don’t understand your reference to East Germany–people couldn’t travel from that country to others because their government kept them there–I don’t recall many people trying to break into East Germany. How is that comparable to the United State wanting to enforce a lawful method of immigration? Or am I just missing something?

    Rochf (877dba)

  56. I don’t think some of you understand what’s going on. This really is an invasion, an army with a well funded supply train providing these illegals with transportation (how do you think they traversed Mexico so quickly), food, medical care, and are even handing out money. They had men in matching t-shirts making the sure the women, at least, had a financial incentive to continue on. It occurred to me that many of them might have gotten off the “caravan” a thousand miles ago and accepted Mexico’s offer of asylum. The organizers couldn’t let that happen, and of course it’s now obvious why. They needed them for the optics. And the organizers have the objective of effectively abolishing the United States. Here’s the manifesto the organizers released earlier this year.

    https://i2.wp.com/fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/3035.jpg

    A few choice tidbits:

    …We are a group of people from different nations, genders, gender expressions, and sexual orientations migrating and seeking refuge. We seek to become one collective, supporting each other shoulder to shoulder and demonstrating that by uniting we can abolish borders…

    …We demand of Mexico and the United States:

    * That they respect our rights as refugees and our right to dignified work to be able to support our families

    * That they open the borders to us because we are as much citizens as the people of the countries where we are and/or travel

    They have declared their rights to us and demand we “respect” those rights. We must abolish our borders, admit them all as refugees despite that only a tiny fraction might, might, have a valid claim (one self-unaware fool said on camera he wanted Trump to pardon his attempted murder conviction that got him deported last time after he finished his sentence; I gathered the organizers don’t respect any of our laws and told them the U.S. owed him a pardon). They have declared our immigration and naturalization laws null and void and that as Hondurans, Guatemalans, etc., they are just as much citizens of the United States are those born here.

    Which of course effectively abolishes the U.S. and turns us into just a big open-air welfare benefits distribution/jobs fair. They demand that we cease being a self-governing country but instead are governed by anyone demanding entry.

    Obviously the “migrants” didn’t write that socialist/communist manifesto themselves. But I hope that those organizing and funding this atrocity (many but certainly not all of whom are in the U.S.) can be prosecuted for this massive conspiracy to violate our laws and our sovereignty.

    Munro, it is entirely within our national interest to make this “caravan” not only non-existent but future “caravans” unthinkable.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  57. Yes it resembles what happened in Europe four years ago.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  58. Lot’s of bad info being spread around about Riot Control Agents. They are “even banned in war.”

    Oooh! Scary.

    The CWC of 1993 specifically addresses their use by law enforcement, as it was used on the border. Under the CWC, RCAs used for law enforcement purposes are not chemical weapons under the convention. In fact, the U.S. interpretation of that clause is that military police can use RCAs for law enforcement purposes even in a military area of operations if necessary, since the MPs would not be using them in combat against enemy combatants.

    As far as the fact that they can be lethal, anything can be lethal including water. There is no such thing as a non-lethal weapon. There are merely less-than-lethal weapons. Rubber bullets, bean-bag rounds, flash bangs, tasers, all can be lethal, particularly if the rioter has some sort of medical condition. If you don’t want a face full of tear gas, don’t throw rocks and chunks of concrete. Those kinds of projectiles have been known to be quite lethal since the paleolithic era.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  59. Really, the only reason RCAs are banned in warfare is that a belligerent almost certainly will not be able to immediately tell what, exactly, the opposing force used on its troops. It has nothing to do with how lethal it is. On normal, healthy young men the answer is “not at all.” But all they’ll know at the outset is that their troops have been incapacitated by some sort of gas. Which can escalate things very quickly.

    Since this isn’t a consideration in law enforcement riot control operations, all the signatories to the CWC agreed that it must remain lawful for that purpose.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  60. 57. Tillman (61f3c8) — 11/26/2018 @ 3:02 pm

    Chemical weapons such as CS gas are indiscriminate and ‘uniquely terrorizing in their application,’ which necessitated their ban in combat in 1993…

    CS tear gas was used to murder the Branch Davidians at Waco in 1993., Thats what started the fire. It was very cleverly done. A big abuse of power by Bill Clinton done in part to protect Friend of Bill Jay William Buford, head of the BATF in Little Rock and one of the leaders of teh raid and who was involved in drawing up the warrant. Buford had murdered 3 of his own men in order to make David Koresh look bad. Clinton pretended, on MArch 17, 1993, in aspeech at the Treasury Department before the fire, that the men killed had once been assigned to his security – nonsense and a big red herring. The orders Janet Reno signed (when many otehrs at DOJ had gone home for the weekend said that the perimeter would be reduced and that if teh Davidians fired fire could be returned or tear ghas used. Then the FBI claimed that they had fired (denied by all survving Davidians) We’re talking abott April 19 1993 not February 28. And the FBI went on said look how good they are they didn’t return fire. The tear gas caused fire to break out in multipleplaces at the same time because CS gas is flammable only at lower concentrations. the compound had numerous kerosene lamps lit. All day the FBI kept demanding a surrender – later Janet Reno claiomed this was not supposed to be D-Day. And on paper it was not. Everybody was protected. Many many lies were told. Janet Reno by the way was always Clinton';s choice he just maneuvered things so she should look like an afterthought necessitated by a desire to pick awoman. Theer';s more. This was also part of Clinton’s effort to take control of the FBI – he worked with the people who had created trumped up ethics charges against the director. It would take several pages to explain it all.

    This tear has thing was nothing like that.

    Why tear gas, lobbed at migrants on the southern border, is banned in warfare

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  61. Why tear gas, lobbed at migrants on the southern border, is banned in warfare

    Steve57 said teh banning in warfare has nothing to do with teh lethality. In 1993 the FVBI claimed tat the Davidians held out against CS tear gas. In reality CCN tear gas was used until they were ready tio start the fire.

    In the April 26, 1993claims were made abaout hearing the Davidians live puring fuel. They thought theny coudl leak and never account for it.

    On April 19, 1993 the FBI instantly said the ZDavdiians started the fire and said “That’s why they called it ZRanch Apocalypse’ In reality the Davidians called it Mount Carmel. The ranch Apocalypse lie was planetd in both TIME and Newsweek in MArch. In Newsweek through apicture caption.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)


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