Patterico's Pontifications

11/16/2018

CIA: Yeah, the Crown Price Sho ‘Nuf Did Order Khashoggi’s Murder

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:14 pm



As any good American knows, this is the Deep State trying to embarrass Donald Trump (eyeroll):

The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.

The CIA’s assessment, in which officials have said they have high confidence, is the most definitive to date linking Mohammed to the operation and complicates the Trump administration’s efforts to preserve its relationship with a close ally. A team of 15 Saudi agents flew to Istanbul on government aircraft in October and killed Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate, where he had come to pick up documents that he needed for his planned marriage to a Turkish woman.

In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence. Khalid told Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to The Washington Post, that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.

It is not clear if Khalid knew that Khashoggi would be killed, but he made the call at his brother’s direction, according to the people familiar with the call, which was intercepted by U.S. intelligence.

Shocka.

Those who doubted this, keep digging your hole. Here’s another shovel for ya.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

184 Responses to “CIA: Yeah, the Crown Price Sho ‘Nuf Did Order Khashoggi’s Murder”

  1. Unless the King makes a move- which is doubtful- he’s probably going to get away w/it, too. They’re a terribly frustrating people to deal with.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  2. This is not an official public statement by the CIA. It’s “a U.S. official familiar with the CIA’s conclusions” who talked to the Washington Post. But to know that you have to search for it deep down inside the article, which is written in the third-person omniscient style common in popular literature.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. I should think that if the Washington Post narrative is true, the CIA having such leaks would be the bigger scandal. Bigger than Khashoggi’s murder and our response.

    nk (dbc370)

  4. it’s not scandalous as evidenced by the tagline
    according to the people familiar with the matter
    When it’s a leak, the usual tagline says the sources were not authorized to speak about the matter publicly.

    kishnevi (1faf84)

  5. Since when is the CIA supposed to play State Department?

    Izzet (ef5589)

  6. CIA – FBI – DOJ
    Repulsive Hacks that lie and operate above the law

    mg (a4facc)

  7. The scandal is that unauthorized media anonymous sources are “familiar with matters”, kishnevi. Lack of internal security at the CIA and whichever other government departments the CIA shared its conclusions with.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. He didn’t much care about the 3,000 dead on these shores 13 years later he had a neutral attitude toward Islamic state and was understanding about Hamas, this was after sbarro and the dolphinarium and other operations that his qatari hosts approved of.

    Narciso (999af7)

  9. “Those who doubted this, keep digging your hole. Here’s another shovel for ya.”

    The CIA is not the Washington Post, nor is it an independent entity. They report to the President of the United States and no one else. This is how actual intel agencies are supposed to operate:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7kvqfvmQ0

    This country has no need or room for rogue intelligence agents who answer only to themselves. If the executive decides that foreign relations require pretending at convenient fictions, it is emphatically not the job of a US intelligence agency to undermine that with information from their department.

    I would not lose sleep in the least if I heard about the mysterious deaths of longtime CIA agents following this appalling leak.

    Izzet (1cec48)

  10. nk, my point is that that this leak was apparently authorized. They were talking on background, to use the best known term.
    When MSM quotes unauthorized leakers, it usually uses the other phrase to acknowledge the sources were not authorized. If it used the phrase it did use, that means the sources were authorized to talk to the press, but not authorized to use their names.

    kishnevi (1faf84)

  11. So, the CIA has confirmed his killing had nothing to do Trump’s “body slam” or “enemy of the people” comments. The CIA truly has turned a corner.

    Munroe (21ef0d)

  12. Is it teh Derp State?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  13. So the post didn’t print prince Khalids statement quelle surprise, seeing as al Houthi is practically a desk editor, it used to be they went by evidence, I know Assange is indisposed but I’m sure that there are places where such actual documentation cam be posted.

    Narciso (999af7)

  14. “Those who doubted this, keep digging your hole. Here’s another shovel for ya.”

    —- Tony “The Ant” Spilotro

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  15. Well, ok, kishnevi.

    Pardon me one minute. Blocking Script => Edit => erase Ajami => type Izzet => Save. Done.

    nk (dbc370)

  16. Tony had the misfortune of falling into that empty grave after getting himself riddled with bullets (I trust that part of the story was accurate)

    Narciso (999af7)

  17. RIP William Goldman

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. the CIA’s a deeply anti-semitic organization

    (that means they hate jews)

    (you know – like Obama)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. The CIA news should have just confirmed what anyone should have known weeks ago.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  20. RIP William Goldman

    I actually read The Princess Bride before it came to the silver screen. A genuine loss because he was genuinely funny.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  21. They were running marathon man on the classic movie channel all week.

    Narciso (999af7)

  22. Tony had the misfortune of falling into that empty grave after getting himself riddled with bullets (I trust that part of the story was accurate)

    Beaten unconscious with baseball bats and buried alive according to the autopsy. He and his brother.

    nk (dbc370)

  23. Whoever leaked this should go to prison for the rest of his life. I’d argue for a treason trial, as it gives aid and comfort to the enemy.

    It is not for the CIA (or its low-level employees) to make or try to make policy, and the relationship of the US to the Saudis (and Israel btw) is critical in the Middle East.

    By releasing this it makes it very hard for normal relations to continue, destabilizes the Saudis, and feeds right into Iran and Hezbollah’s efforts in the region.

    Yeah, I get it that some haters of Trump see this as counting-coup. Whoo-fracking-hoo! I don’t give a flying sh*t about that. I care about having a strong Middle East policy, and a strong Israel and this undermines both rather completely. This damages America far more than it damages Trump — Trump will lie his way out of any lasting damage to himself, but America is still fu**ed.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  24. In a just world, the FBI would be seizing the WaPo computers right about now and charging editors with espionage and conspiracy to commit treason, suggesting that maybe they want to give the CIA traitor up. This is a terrible scandal for the CIA and they need to do something about their moles.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  25. Well American and British and other services thought they could pull of the last scam and largely remain unaccountable why not try again.

    Narciso (69bae6)

  26. If the executive decides that foreign relations require pretending at convenient fictions, it is emphatically not the job of a US intelligence agency to undermine that with information from their department.

    No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. … The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely “… or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”

    If a CIA officer did this, s/he is certainly (and knowingly) giving aid and comfort to countries which are sworn enemies of the US. Do they adhere to these enemies? Hard to say until we know more, but I really doubt that their reasons are the same as the superficial reasons (embarrassing Trump (or even demanding “justice”)) that drive this post.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  27. my point is that that this leak was apparently authorized.

    By the President? Or maybe the SecState? Because no one at the CIA has the right to leak this.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  28. And shame on anyone who thinks that some score-settling is worth this kind of damage to US foreign policy. My opinion of several people is diminished today. Shame.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  29. No one, like the press office at the agency, no one could authorize such a thing. Gina Haskell couldn’t?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  30. And the more I read the pisseder I get.

    In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence.

    Jeebus! Someone at the CIA is telling the press that we have the Saudi ambassador’s phone bugged, despite the best Saudi efforts at securing the line? That itself is a prison offense, and no one at the CIA has the right to release that. This makes Hillary’s foibles minuscule by comparison.

    Sure, it’s Trump and the man has no ability to think on his feet or otherwise, but SOMEONE there must have an inkling on how to deal with these CIA traitors.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  31. No one, like the press office at the agency, no one could authorize such a thing. Gina Haskell couldn’t?

    Only after approval by the National Security Council, I would hope, Herr Oberschenkelklopfer. We still have one, don’t we?

    nk (dbc370)

  32. No one, like the press office at the agency, no one could authorize such a thing. Gina Haskell couldn’t?

    Release Top Secret or TS:SCI info? Uh, no. Not ever. The President could. Maybe the SecState or national security advisor. And certainly not some Deep Throat in a parking lot.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  33. “No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. … The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely “… or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.””

    The loyalty is not to any particular country, it’s to career, personal feelings, and ‘intelligence community’, whatever that means.

    “Treason” is not the crime, it’s rank insubordination. They do not need to be charged in any federal court, they would not grant that to their victims. They deserve nothing but the same penalty that the ‘just following orders’ Saudis who took out Khashoggi did: exposure, expulsion, and possible unofficial execution, all penalties they would be fully in favor of doling out toward foreigners and likely Americans, and tolerated only out of necessity and toward ends we could not achieve by other means.

    In any case, the justification for trusting official spooks, much less celebrating them, took a gigantic nosedive with this release. Be reminded that Eric NUKE ‘EM ALL Swalwell describes himself in his official Twitter bio as the CIA rep of the Democrat party if you think we’ll be losing much by shuttering these increasingly unaccountable and ungovernable agencies whose job is mainly being done by Amazon nowadays.

    Izzet (025b4f)

  34. Excerted from “The Apprentice” by Greg Miller.

    As the ceremony for Trump got underway, [Acting Director Meroe] Park was first to the lectern, telling the new president that “hundreds more” agency employees wished to attend but were turned away for lack of space. “It means a great deal that you chose to come to CIA on your first full day as president,” she said.

    – snip –

    Trump took the stage in a striped blue tie and, though indoors, a topcoat that fell below his knees. “There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community and the CIA than Donald Trump,” he said . . .

    – snip –

    Trump called members of the media “the most dishonest human beings on Earth” for refusing to acknowledge the “million, million and a half people” he said had attended his inauguration the previous day — an erroneous claim off by a factor of four.

    Trump directed applause to two of his closest aides, both sitting in the front row. “General Flynn is right over here. Put up your hand. What a good guy,” Trump said of his national security adviser, Michael Flynn. A retired Army general who had been one of Trump’s most vocal campaign supporters, Flynn was by then already under FBI investigation for omitting large foreign payments from his financial disclosure forms.

    Within days, he would also be questioned by FBI agents over his troubling post-election contacts with the Russian ambassador to the United States.

    – snip –

    Absorbed in self-adulation and grievance, Trump was blind to a stunning array of problems, some in plain view from the CIA stage: the failings of a national security adviser he’d insisted on hiring despite warnings; the existence of a larger agency workforce beyond this clapping, self-selected crowd that would be profoundly disturbed by his vainglorious performance; the fragments of intelligence being assembled several floors directly above him in Russia House that would help expose a web of connections between his campaign and Moscow, and feed into investigations that would threaten his presidency.

    gad-fly (d1e2ea)

  35. Kevin is totally correct. Both in that this is a fun little gotcha for Trump’s critics (like me), and that the bigger picture means this leak is totally unacceptable and harmful.

    Dustin (9fc17c)

  36. The NSC aide that Melania just had driven out would be the first person I would question. No reflection on the lady (I mean the aide not Melania), it’s just how it is.

    nk (dbc370)

  37. Dustin & Kevin M, The leak could be part of our punishment to the Saudis for the killing. Maybe this is to embarrass them by showing how easily we got the information and making it clear we know they did it.

    We don’t know. We won’t know unless there’s news of an investigation over this leak.

    Time123 (306531)

  38. they didn’t prosecute him for that, just like the 500 k to Plouffe, for funds from an Iranian connected south African telecommunications firm, that’s the vendor for zte in Africa through Ericson if memory serves, instead Stefan halper who himself has ties to the svr, he’s more a fixer like paul gleason in trading places, tried to insinuate treason through fusion’s designated outlets, now brennan who seems to orchestrating this campaign, was the one who was surveilling company whistleblowers, that story hasn’t circulated very far,

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. Now we used to look past the clickbait headline, in this case there’s a new alliance forming of Shia countries like Iran but Sunni militant regimes like Qatar and turkey.

    Narciso (5098db)

  40. And then there’s Erdogan, who routinely kills his own people when they get uppity, and not just the Kurds. How many opposition members were executed in prisons in the last year, following the fake coup? More than a few.

    Where is the CIA leak about that?

    Kevin M (a57144)

  41. The company more often than not, agrees with that view point,

    Narciso (5098db)

  42. Translation, Alex was taking their stuff, so they threw him in a locker, this is a lesson for prince Salman as well.

    Narciso (5098db)

  43. Major Scum Media will be major scum media. They’ll snitch out their mothers for a story and embellish it with excerpts from Fanny Hill. The solution is to go to the heart of the problem. Go after the 1) procedures which allow media tipsters to have access to classified information, and 2) the tipsters themselves. Fire them and prosecute them.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. So they are boasting of electronic intercepts , that’s got to be at least tsi if not password access info, where did they assign the winsom miss Watkins again?

    Narciso (5098db)

  45. By releasing this it makes it very hard for normal relations to continue, destabilizes the Saudis, and feeds right into Iran and Hezbollah’s efforts in the region.

    it also sticks ot to the jews

    the CIA loathes the jewish people so this was a fun opportunity for them

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. oopers stick *it* to the jews i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. More often than not, pikachu, take Mike scheuer he wanted to throw Israel to the Jews, as pointed out in the tablet piece that’s only the hor’derve

    Narciso (5098db)

  48. This news was also leaked to the NYT and WSJ around the same time, which speaks of coordination, so I’m less inclined to think that it was unauthorized. I would think that Trump would prefer to backdoor these revelations than have him or one of his people make the accusation at a press conference.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  49. The people who leaked this are the ones who want destroy the alliance between Israel the gulf states and Jordan, coincidentally that appears to be muellers objective too.

    Narciso (5098db)

  50. Mr. happyfeet, although it is true, I do not like being reminded that the people really in charge of our Middle East policy are Bibi Netanyahu and Exxon-Mobil, because there is nothing we can do about it, and even when only talk about it we are accused of being from Pittsburgh.

    nk (dbc370)

  51. I put forward the following proposition: RESOLVED, that good people do not have the House of Saud for friends.

    nk (dbc370)

  52. CIA Director: “Mr President, we know it was MBS who ordered the killing.”

    Trump: “Frack off, I don’t care.”

    CIA Director: (dials Washington Post)

    … soon to be part of the new Civics lesson plan.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  53. Well you either side with Israel and this prince or Iran and the house of thanim (with Erdogan as junior partner?)

    Narciso (5098db)

  54. I’d just redeploy all our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to perimeters around the oil fields, along the pipelines, and around the tanker harbors, and let the rest of the place, from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean and from the Mediterranean to the Cape of Good Hope, go back to the 8th century.

    nk (dbc370)

  55. We might have to do that, and then we get involved in a civil war inside the swing producer of crude.

    Narciso (5098db)

  56. It was just last Saturday when Trump lied about bin Salman’s role.

    Referring to the crown prince, Trump told reporters Saturday, “As of this moment, we were told that he did not play a role, we’re gonna have to find out what they say.”
    The president didn’t specify who had said Mohammed had played no role.
    The CIA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
    But within the White House, there has been little doubt that Mohammed was behind the killing.
    “This is a situation where everyone basically knows what happened,” said one adviser who talks to Trump often.

    It’s about as inexplicable as Trump’s refusal to exclusively criticize Putin about anything. Earlier in the piece:

    But the president has already been shown evidence of the prince’s alleged involvement in the killing, and privately he remains skeptical, Trump aides said. He has also looked for ways to avoid pinning the blame on Mohammed, the aides said.
    The president’s most recent comments put him at odds with the findings of the CIA and senior intelligence officials.
    Gina Haspel, the CIA director, and John Bolton, the national security adviser, have briefed Trump on the intelligence community’s findings, with Haspel offering the various pieces of evidence that show lieutenants of MBS — as the crown prince is known — were directly involved, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  57. You know, it’s not okay to hurt America as long as it hurts Trump. I didn’t like it when Republicans did it with Obama and I don’t like it now.

    nk (dbc370)

  58. John Bolton explicitly said he hadn’t see the tape, but had heard of it from others chapel has not commented at all, the French foreign minister has denied he has seen it.

    Narciso (5098db)

  59. No more hand holding with the Saudis and no more cozy get togethers at Trump’s Crawford ranch.

    Munroe (a257fb)

  60. You know, it’s not okay to hurt America as long as it hurts Trump.

    It hurts America when Trump lies so frequently and brazenly to the American people and the world.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  61. Well, if the Washington Post says the CIA says it’s true I guess there’s no disputing the truth of the matter. It’s not as if the Washington Post might have any ulterior motives in printing anything less than the absolute truth nor the CIA have any ulterior motives in disclosing anything less than the absolute truth and it’s not as if the CIA has ever been mistaken about anything nor unwilling to be completely transparent with the American public about what they’re doing and why and how they’re doing it.

    But a person more cynical than myself might want to ask what purpose is served by the Washington Post disclosing this information to the public and what purpose is served by someone in the employ of the CIA disclosing it to the Washington Post. And just as importantly, perhaps more importantly, is anybody at the Washington Post cynical enough that they thought to ask their source at the CIA “Why are you telling me this and why is it in your interest to have this information made public?” Did they just assume that their contact in the CIA is just as interested in transparency as they are? Did they think to wonder if perhaps somebody who makes their living on lies and disinformation and intrigue such as a CIA employee might actually be using the Washington Post as an unwitting part of a CIA operation? And why isn’t the Washington Post, in the interest of full disclosure, raising these concerns with the truthfulness of their reporting on their own? I mean, if they were reporting on some corporate bigwig under investigation by the SEC and were reporting some “inside information” from an anonymous source who turned out to be the bigwig’s wife, wouldn’t they at least slip some sort of hint in there that they weren’t willing to 100% guarantee the veracity of the source since the source might possibly have just a wee bit of a conflict of interest in the case?

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  62. 61. And yet, the American people elected Donald J. Trump knowing exactly what they were getting. Incidentally, the behavior or many of Trump’s supporters only serves to vindicate my decision to not vote for him.

    Gryph (08c844)

  63. The post and the time were all for the Iran deal, the journals had some qualms so it was arranged to get Jay Solomon off the trail who was fixing to set up the same operation as Glenn Simpson off the ground in fact this influence op resembles the one Simpson participated to keep an anti Iranian prince off the throne of a small emirate Ras al khilmah

    Narciso (7ed0f8)

  64. And yet, the American people elected Donald J. Trump knowing exactly what they were getting. Incidentally, the behavior or many of Trump’s supporters only serves to vindicate my decision to not vote for him.

    Technically only about 15% of citizens voted for Trump, and only 26% of eligible voters. If the other half of American’s actually bothered to vote, lots of things may be different. In a midterm election with historic turnout, only 49.2% bothered to do their civic duty.

    My take would be that apathetic citizens keep letting terrible people get elected, in primaries where only about 15% elect to weigh in and generals where the damage is mostly already done. This is especially true in Presidential elections. Just the fact that Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were really the options is just crazy. Of course, if they can’t bother with voting, they most especially wouldn’t actually bother to seek information.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (dc491a)

  65. 65. You believe what you wanna believe, Klink. Trump didn’t just happen. He happened because enough people wanted him. That’s how this whole “election” thing works here, you know. He was elected without my vote in ’16 and he’ll no doubt win without my vote in ’20.

    Gryph (08c844)

  66. as I get tired of saying, I voted for cruz in the primary, as I did with Gingrich, and guiliani the previous two cycles, but you see the most interesting thing, is what they leave out of the stories,

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. so the international crisis group, which pushes for every shia militant, and sunni (like hamas, Islamic state, nusra front) so when you see ian bremner, Robert malley, and co, byline you have to understand what it means,

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. Well, if the Washington Post says the CIA says it’s true I guess there’s no disputing the truth of the matter.

    The NYT and WSJ reported pretty much the same thing. This isn’t about the DDID, it’s about a CIA assessment that conflicts with Trump’s statements, and it could’ve been leaked by the CIA or lawmakers or folks in the Trump White House. Quote:

    The agency has passed that assessment on to lawmakers and Trump administration officials.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  69. Machts nichts. None of them are authorized to rat it out.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. Which is true for most leaks.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  71. It may be true, but it’s only half the story, which is the routing of Islamist factions in the kingdom, who have sought sanctuary in qatar.

    Narciso (520a77)

  72. G. Joubert, call your office.

    askeptic (8d10f9)

  73. Why not think that the leak was intentional and not just by the CIA?

    This way state department and president do not need to say anything. At the same time it puts pressure on the Saudis.

    Echo (b6b892)

  74. It may be true, but it’s only half the story, which is the routing of Islamist factions in the kingdom, who have sought sanctuary in qatar.

    You don’t know that. The KSA still has a religious police, they’re still infused with Wahabbism (and Salafism), which is a harsh interpretation of Islam, and they treat their own people like s**t.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  75. Clinton/Gryph/2020

    mg (f653bf)

  76. Weiner-Holder 2020

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. Her her hee,Col.

    mg (ef2c8e)

  78. Of course the post account leaves out some details:

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/11/is-the-cia-a-rogue-agency.php

    Narciso (992825)

  79. the people what are most eager to use poor dead shoggy-doggy on the jews are sleazy jew-hater bob corker and the corrupt and deeply anti-semitic cia

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. Ok, what I don’t get is, why is anybody surprised or outraged? The mook was no legitimate kind of ‘joirnalist’, even by the absurd standards of the mainstream media. He was, at best, a player on the Saudi Intrigue scene, and at worst a frontman for Jihadists. There’s considerable tangental evidence that he was connected to a plot to assassinate members of the ruling House of Saud.

    So, the Ruling House decides to whack him, as a general nuisance and potential object lesson. That’s what Medieval Hereditary Monarchies DO to people who plot against them. It’s why representative Democracies are preferable, no matter how many Fantasy novels get written about Just and Holy Kings returning to the throne.

    I mean, all this was obvious to me on day three of the whole mess. I’ve been spot checking since and have yet to run in to information that makes me change my opinion.

    Am I deranged?

    C. S. P. Schofield (d61c66)

  81. The mook was no legitimate kind of ‘journalist’

    it’s a lot like the whole Seth Rich thing

    you fall in with a sleazy crowd and start splashing around in the bathtub with them and guess what bad stuff can happen to you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. It’s about as inexplicable as Trump’s refusal to exclusively criticize Putin about anything.

    It is really hard to respond to this without questioning the intelligence of the person who finds it inexplicable.

    Trump’s position is the correct one. We look the other way, while also looking for alternatives should MBS continue down this path. We NEED the Saudis far more than we need to posture and virtue signal, although some folks are just too wrapped up in their goodness to see this.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  83. It is really hard to respond to this without questioning the intelligence of the person who finds it inexplicable.

    Let’s not make this personal, bub. Putin tried to undermine an American election, and his acts have been consistently hostile to American interests. There’s never a bad time to speak to truth to power and bad behavior. Trump hasn’t yet found a good time to say it.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  84. Technically only about 15% of citizens voted for Trump

    Oh, barf. This is the VERY last refuge of the losing side in every election. The last two Presidents who got as much as 30% of adults to vote for them were Reagan and Nixon, each in their second try. Was everyone else illegitimate?

    Frankly, we’d be better off if fewer people voted.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  85. Which is true for most leaks.

    Most leaks don’t involve state secrets. Although I’m a bit surprised that Trump isn’t firing people. Maybe he DOES play n-dimentional chess.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  86. Weiner-Holder 2020

    I favor Weiner-Spitzer.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  87. Let’s not make this personal, bub.

    You’re the one who started it with (essentially) “I can’t understand.” I just said it was hard to respond to that WITHOUT getting into why you can’t understand.

    Then I responded without getting into it. If you have such a thin skin, don’t lead with your chin.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  88. Don’t be an a$$hole, Kevin. You started this, getting personal with me with “it’s really hard to respond to this without questioning the intelligence of the person who finds it inexplicable”, and it’s not the first time you’ve pulled this crap with me. If you want to have a conversation, then have one, but all I’m seeing from you is bad faith.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  89. “There’s never a bad time to speak to truth to power and bad behavior.”
    Paul Montagu (70fe18) — 11/18/2018 @ 8:42 am

    … starting as of January 20, 2017.

    Munroe (d5ebcc)

  90. Then stop saying you find things inexplicable.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  91. We wont have prince Salman forced off the throne, that was Hillary bad call with kadafi and Mubarak thr Islamists have their martyr that can’t be helped.

    Narciso (034dee)

  92. … starting as of January 20, 2017.

    More like July 2014, when liberal kept trying to cram words down my mouth.
    http://www.theforvm dot org/bird-dog-doctrine

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  93. Then stop saying you find things inexplicable.

    You can’t stop me from saying anything, but you can stop being an asswipe.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  94. it’s like how you can’t stop the sleazy bigot CIA from working with Iran and Bob Corker to plot the genocide of Israel

    fish gotta swim you know

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  95. Well they see it as feeding the crocodile, it worked in 2010 and 79 and 75 and 59, you get the picture.

    Narciso (b9586d)

  96. And Graham should specially take heed because of the example of Libya and Egypt but he wont.

    Narciso (b9586d)

  97. including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence. Khalid told Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to The Washington Post, that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.

    This is the one thing I have some questions about.

    First why would Khashoggi call Khalid bin Salman? if he did, why would he trust him? What we’ve been told is that he was not worried saying the people in the consulate were ordinary people. (that was exactly his mistake)

    He visited it the previous Friday and nothing happened except he didn’t get the paper.

    Khalid bin Salman says he didn’t talk to Jamal Khashoggi and that the last time he etxted him was in 2017.

    Now there’s either good evidence for this person to person call or there’s not.

    It would be maybe just like the CIA toi make this all hinge on something doubtful.

    The more general reasons for supposing MbS arranged his murder are better.

    The Saudi prosecutor asked for the death penalty but ony for this in the room and they seem to be claiming it wasn’t planned more than afew hours in advance at most. They are still going with the idea that an argument broke out.

    Trump now says (to Chris Wallace on Fox) we have the recording. He was advised not to listen to it (it’s not in Englisha nyway would that make sense?) and that it is horrible or words to that effect. He claims we might never know the truth The kind of thing people used to say abouy Mafia murders.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  98. Paul Montagu (70fe18) — 11/18/2018 @ 9:28 am

    Patterico, consider this comment as a plea for a just ruling.

    felipe (023cc9)

  99. In #97, Narciso refers to the international spontaneous version of bringing out the gimp

    urbanleftbehind (7b3112)

  100. That’s harsh, urban, but he does have a tendency to grab the big shiny thing.

    Narciso (00a309)

  101. It doesn’t nmake sense to rest your case on a supposed telephone call, which would prove nothing anyway about MbS.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  102. Wendy Sherman having screwed up with North Korea and iran…

    Narciso (00a309)

  103. Can’t we all just get along?!?!?!?!?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. Ozweepaaa

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. To absolutely no one’s surprise, Макс Бут is totally in favor of nuking the America kulaks and uncooperative proles, almost like taking Soviet refugees on promises of good behavior was a terrible idea:

    “Max Boot

    Verified account

    @MaxBoot
    Follow Follow @MaxBoot
    More Max Boot Retweeted Rep. Eric Swalwell
    You have taken a courageous and principled stand, @RepSwalwell. There is no reason why any civilian should own an assault weapon. And gun prohibition and buyback much more effective than ban on further sale.”

    Since Obama already did give us the go-ahead to do it to American citizens of a terroristic nature, I move in favor of a US resolution to drone-strike the residences of Eric Swalwell and Макс Бут for making credible terrorist threats (collateral damage highly acceptable.)

    Izzet (cb5d31)

  106. “Let’s not make this personal, bub. Putin tried to undermine an American election”

    WITHOUT EVIDENCE, PAUL CONTINUES TO PUSH THIS PATHETIC EXAGGERATION.

    “and his acts have been consistently hostile to American interests.”

    That’s only one man’s opinion, they’ve been mainly in line with Russia’s interests, sometimes this is good for America, sometimes it isn’t. Good to note that “America’s interests” and “the CIA’s interests” may in fact diverge in many respects and that any Respecter of Intel Agents should have their remarks vetted very harshly.

    “There’s never a bad time to speak to truth to power and bad behavior.”

    Yes there is, specifically when power is willing and able to speak power to truth.

    “Trump hasn’t yet found a good time to say it.”

    In general if you have dirt on a counterparty it’s far better to keep it secret and use it as leverage in negotiations against that entity, but that’s a bit more of a ‘private sector lesson’ that those who live off the generosity of others tend to never learn.

    Izzet (5c6b9b)

  107. but you can stop being an asswipe.

    I have not said ANYTHING derogatory about you, except maybe that you have a thin skin.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  108. Max Boot is about as conservative as Jennifer Rubin. Worse, he now writes for the WaPo and Mother Jones and calls on people to vote Democrat.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  109. I have not said ANYTHING derogatory about you, except maybe that you have a thin skin.

    Don’t turn this back on me. This isn’t about the thickness of my skin, it’s about your initial comment, which went after the commenter and not the comment.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  110. His book on lansdale is good, its striking how the guy who got any results in Vietnam was cut out of planning but that was true with the liaison to the huk before hand

    Narciso (7c74f0)

  111. it’s about your initial comment, which went after the commenter and not the comment.

    I did no such thing.

    I started to reply with something that WAS offensive. Then stopped.
    Then I started again and again it was over the line. I stopped.

    Then I said that “It is really hard to respond to this without questioning the intelligence of the person who finds it inexplicable.” which was a true statement.

    Then I continued with a response that was in no way attacking you.

    You read into it something that was not there, other than I was pointing out I could not understand HOW someone would find this “inexplicable.”

    Kevin M (a57144)

  112. Then I said that “It is really hard to respond to this without questioning the intelligence of the person who finds it inexplicable.” which was a true statement.
    It’s an opinion, directed at the commenter, not the comment. I regret that you don’t understand the commenting rules.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  113. Well the likes of brennan and Rhodes who were utterly taken in by Iran, who told Obama that the Islamic state was Jayvee even though they bore the signs of the same people we had been fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, look down on general Flynn who drew up the battle plan for the counterinsurgency strategy I tend to snicker.

    Narciso (1a3a9a)

  114. How is “I find it had to….” an opinion? I did find it hard.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  115. This is also important, because Trump refused to listen to a murder that was instigated by bin Salman.

    “We have the tape. I don’t want to hear the tape. No reason for me to hear the tape,” Trump said in the Fox interview, which was recorded Friday and aired Sunday. He described it as “a suffering tape” and told Fox host Chris Wallace, “I know everything that went on in the tape without having to hear it . . . . It was very violent, very vicious and terrible.”

    It’s an excuse for murder, and it won’t go away.

    Paul Montagu (f3984a)

  116. Its a damned if he do/damned if he don’t proposition, Paul. Either he’s too squeamish (a persistent “meme” against him) or he risks having the wrong facial expressions while listening to the tapes.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  117. urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 11/19/2018 @ 3:44 am

    I tend to agree. I expect many “sophie’s choices” to be tailor made for Trump, or spun in the msm.

    felipe (023cc9)

  118. A President should not have the time to personally analyze tapes in Arabic turned given by the Turkish government to our government. He should only have the time to read or hear a one-sentence to a (no more than) three-sentence assessment of them in an intelligence, national security, or foreign relations briefing.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. turned

    nk (dbc370)

  120. Ees no’ hees yob, mon.

    nk (dbc370)

  121. The media has this belief that the President should hear all, know all, and is a failure if he doesn’t. This leads to things like the Presidency of Jimmy Carter, where the Prez is buried in useless minutia, and renders himself useless.

    The President has a duty to pay attention to creditable intelligence and act on it. He has no duty to listen to a snuff audio.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  122. He’s cracking up:

    Trump calls incoming House Intelligence Chairman “little Adam Schitt” in profane tweet.

    Dave (9664fc)

  123. Its a damned if he do/damned if he don’t proposition

    A lot of Trump critics don’t realize they do this. They say they’re just calling things as they see them, but they always see them as “Orange Man Bad.”

    Example: Trump going to Pittsburgh after that terrible Shabbat shooting.

    If he goes: “It’s really disrespectful of Trump to go to Pittsburgh. The victims and their families shouldn’t be subjected to politics at a time like this.”

    IF he doesn’t: “It’s really disrespectful of Trump to not go to Pittsburgh. The victims and their families need to know the nation stands with them at a time like this.”

    Kevin M (a57144)

  124. What time of the day was it? Seriously. There’s a pattern in early dementia, called “sundowning”, which strongly involves the time of day. If Twitter has time stamps, it would be a big help. We could chart his (more or less) rational tweets and his nutty ones and it would be good enough to be admitted into evidence in court.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. Anyone who doesn’t think Adam sch!ft is a pos. Is buying swamp land at retail.

    mg (ef2c8e)

  126. The President has a duty to pay attention to creditable intelligence and act on it.

    That is true, and that is the problem. When the CIA–with high confidence–tells Trump that bin Salman ordered the assassination of Khashoggi, he refuses to believe it, which once again shows that if the facts conflict with the narrative rolling in his head, his inner storyline prevails and damn the facts. The Chris Wallace interview is only the latest example.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  127. The President has a duty to pay attention to creditable intelligence and act on it. He has no duty to listen to a snuff audio.

    This entirely misses the point. It is not the President’s duty to be arbiter of truth (and particularly not this President’s). His job is to look at intelligence and decide what is best for the United States. That may be working with MBS even if Trump and the Administration think MBS is a killer.

    Few in that part of the world are not, and we need to pick the ones that will further our interests. Erdogan is leading this accusation, but his hands have been dripping blood for years. He’s not doing this because he’s shocked, he’s doing it because he (correctly) believes that Americans are so shallow that they value virtue signalling over substance. This is a manipulation, solely for Erdogan’s purposes. Trump is trying to resist the manipulation, but a lot of people just can’t get past the “justice” thing, as if this had happened in a civilized part of the world.

    In this rare instance, Trump is proving smarter than many of his critics, although he handles it in his usual ham-handed way.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  128. Trump is proving smarter than many of his critics

    You are giving him the benefit of the doubt. I think that Paul is right. He refuses to believe the CIA, because he thinks the IC is out to get him, and therefore doubts them on everything on principle.

    But this is the man who apparently thought that if the CIA had only checked the Islamabad phone book, they would have known right away where Bin Laden was living. (And while he was in a beautiful house, he’s seen better. Which for once is undoubtedly true, and totally irrelevant to anyone not named Donald Trump.)

    kishnevi (2f2588)

  129. Anyone who doesn’t think Adam sch!ft is a pos. Is buying swamp land at retail.

    I see no reason not to think he is an excremental product. It balances the Intelligence Committee nicely. A Democratic excremental product matches the Republican excremental product (Nunes). But excremental products can be right on important things and still be excremental products.

    kishnevi (2f2588)

  130. Few in that part of the world are not, and we need to pick the ones that will further our interests.

    Well, then, consider the idea that backing Erdogan furthers our interests more than backing the Saudis at this point. Especially as Erdogan may have a much firmer grip on power than the current leaders of the House of Saud, who must contend with hostile elements from other members of the House of Saud as well those hostile to the House of Saud as a whole.

    kishnevi (2f2588)

  131. #129

    Trump was trying to find a way to give Fethullah Gulen to Erdogan to shut him up about all the embarrassing Saudi stuff. He doesn’t get any benefit of any doubts on this issue.

    Trump wants his relationship with the Saudis, and he’s willing to stomp all over American values to get it. Not listening to a snuff tape doesn’t make this worse. But it’s not the offense against decency in this situation.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  132. Bet a quarter bet a half bet a half bet a half bet a quarter bet a half bet a half, sold to the gentleman in the corner.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  133. But what about the boooooooshes and the Saudi love affair. Man what a horse crap family.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  134. ugh the bushes

    vapid and bloodthirsty little family

    history will remember them as those trashy murderous people what got so many of our tatters killed and maimed for NUTHIN

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  135. Right on, happyfeet. They killed too many of our best and brightest.

    mg (ef2c8e)

  136. Actually he hasn’t, but Gulen made Erdogan possible then became a scapegoat after the mythical grey wolves threat, but thanks for playing

    Narciso (055dfe)

  137. mg:

    There is something uniquely depraved about inviting someone into your national embassy, and then having them killed there. (Also, it’s pretty stupid — international skulduggery as presented by the Coen Brothers.)

    Had the notion not been resisted, sending Gullen over as a sop to Erdogan would have been a worthy coda to the Coen’s upcoming drama, Burn Before Sawing (or A Woodchipper Would Have Worked Better)

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  138. It actually wasnt done, unlike say ambassador Steven’s who was abducted sodomized and then choked to death, by al queda operatives.

    Narciso (f77836)

  139. #140

    If you want to compare the considered and rejected actions of the US government to those of Al Qaeda, go ahead. That’s usually best left to the insane left, though.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  140. I really don’t care about khashoggi much the way he didn’t care about us a month after September 11th not about Israeli civilians four years ago.

    Narciso (f77836)

  141. I think the idea that stevens was sodomized is disinformation. I think he might have been interrogated a bit.

    This was probably another Saudi plot by the way (this one organized by prince Bandar, then head of Saudi intelligence)

    They then told the CIA it was spontanous (so nobody would look any further) and got theCIA to reverse itself about it being a planned act of terrorism but it was spontaneous.

    See all of this:

    https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/Benghazi%20emails%20on%20unclassified%20talking%20points.pdf

    Originally they relied on a statement by Ansar al Sharia claiming responsibility and also some indications from alQaeda in the Islamic Magreb. That was walked back. By the end of the week of Tuesday Sept 11, 2012, they believed,or were saying “based on currently available infoirmation” – that is, information that had not been available before – that the attack in Benghazi was spontaneous and not planned in advance. (not possible on purely milkitary grounds by the way)

    That information came from “intelligence partners” Translation: The Saudis and Qatar (then allies)

    At that time, the United States was trying to buy up Quaddafi’s weapons in competition with the Saudi et al to prevent them from being sent to Syrian rebels, whom Obama didn’t trust. Stevens mission to Benghazi (where he met with a Turkish official) was to prevent a ship with weapons, including missiles, from sailing to Turkey. He was too late. But the weapoins were held up in Turkey anyway.

    I’m not sure much else got there even though the CIA was chased out of Libya becauyse the saudis maybe had no way to get them there. Stevens had delivered astring message from Obama to Turkey.

    Hillary Clinton knew the truth but couldn’t interfere with the talking points taht Susan Rice eventually went public with, because she knew that Prince Bandar had also murdered Vincent Foster, back in 1993, and if he fell, she and Bill Clinton might fall with him.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  142. #144

    The British have a saying — “Don’t care will be made to care.” It comes to mind.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  143. I meant #142…arg.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  144. 131. kishnevi (2f2588) — 11/19/2018 @ 8:30 am

    I see no reason not to think he is an excremental product. It balances the Intelligence Committee nicely. A Democratic excremental product matches the Republican excremental product (Nunes). But excremental products can be right on important things and still be excremental products.

    Adam Schiff went on Face the Nation and said Hllary Clinton was right to not copntradict the CIA about Benghazi (she knew of course that the attack oin the mission had noit been preceded by any demonstration) and that had Hillary Clinton told the truth about Benghazi that week, she would have been justly criticized:

    (this was kind of missed because people don’t pay attention to things outside of the cliches they are used to)

    Sunday, October 25, 2015 on Face the Nation:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-october-25-trump-christie-nunes-schiff/

    Congressman Adam Schiff, then (and still yet) Ranking Minority Member of the the House Intelligence Committee, and also a member of the Select Committee on Benghazi:

    And we did an investigation, that Devin was a part of that, in the intelligence committee, that looked at, frankly, each of these conflicting streams of intelligence as they came in. The early claims by Ansar al-Sharia responsibility that were very quickly followed with human intelligence, signals intelligence, open source reporting, that there was a protest. It wasn’t until about eight to ten days after the events where we actually got the tapes from the compound that we could see quite demonstrably on those tapes that there had been no protests. But it was the — the considered judgment, the assessment of the intelligence experts for that week until we got those tapes, that there had been a protest. And that turned out to be wrong.

    But to criticize Secretary Clinton for relying on the best of intelligence that we had at the time seemed to be wholly inappropriate. < Had she had spoken, frankly, in contradiction of what our intelligence agencies were telling her, that might be something to criticize. But the fact that, as she related, and as Ambassador Rice and others related, the information at the time, it was the best information we had. And the fact that that was wrong initially doesn’t change the fact that they were reflecting the best that we knew at the time.

    Of course not teh best information. Just the most highly ranked information.

    Whom do you believe? The intelligence agencies or what you know from your own people? (that there was no demonstration)

    According to Adam Schiff, it should be what the intelligence agencies say. Maybe you should if you don’t want to make any waves.

    And this doesn’t go into the proposition that she might have had a pretty good idea of what really was the motive, and who planned it.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  145. “It actually wasnt done, unlike say ambassador Steven’s who was abducted sodomized and then choked to death, by al queda operatives”

    No he wasn’t.

    Davethulhu (519d49)

  146. The New York Times doesn’t mention anything in today’s newspaper about the alleged phone call between Prince Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, although it’s really critical, in its news story, about Predident Trump not going with the idea that Mohammed bin Salman ordered the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/18/us/politics/trump-khashoggi-saudis.html

    Despite Evidence on Khashoggi, Trump Sticks With the Crown Prince. Why?

    This is the lead front page news story. But none of the evidence they cite includes this call.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  147. #Schiffforbrains

    Colonel Haiku (a7e08c)

  148. 147. It also wasn’t really al Qaeda operatives, except to the extent that all Islamic terrorist groups ultimately have a common origin in the Moslem Brotherhood. (of course that could be like saying all Communist groups have acommon origin)

    The people who did that were linked to Egypt.

    But narciso @140 isn’t making this up. That story was spread.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  149. In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence.

    This makes absolutely no sense and is not mentioned at all by the New York Times.

    1. First, although this call would indicate high level official Saudi knowledge of the trip, it would not mean that Prince Khalid knew there was a plan to kill him.

    2. By itself it wouldn’t indicate that his brother, the Crown Prince, knew either.

    What we really have is a lack of other plausible planners of the murder.

    3. Khashoggi wss not close to Prince Khalid. Why would he be reassured by him?

    And finally:

    4. If such a conversation took place, this would cause Khashoggi to worry more, not less!

    What would reassure Khashoggi would be the idea that high level Saudi officials were not paying any attention to, or did not know about, his planned visit to the consulate in Istanbul.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  150. Egyptian Algerian Tunisian who did what, even with actual video tape of the assault no one cared.

    narciso (d1f714)

  151. 139 –
    Depraving squared – “boooshes war in Iraq”

    mg (ef2c8e)

  152. #154

    I won’t argue about that. But where does that get you? Support fascists, because we used to be idiots?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  153. I don’t understand your point, mg, Are you saying Agent Orange should prop up the Golden Apes, like Papa Push and Baby Shrub did, or that he should not?

    As for the hand-holding, Mark Steyn had a hilarious article about that and I would be grateful to anyone who could find it online because I can’t. Bush 43 was a tease with the hand-holding and pecks on the cheek but Obama actually put out, is the gist of it.

    nk (dbc370)

  154. If you read Robert Lacey, the Saudis didn’t think w did them any favors in fact they felt he downgraded their special relationship

    Narciso (50a424)

  155. That’s what Mark Steyn said. Can you remember the article? It’s a parody stage show with the Saudi King and Queen Elizabeth roasting the Obamas*, and Mark Steyn himself singing “My Sharia Amour”.

    *One of QEII’s lines is that when she met Michelle she thought: “Those Yanks’ space program must be more advanced than we thought. They got themselves a real live Klingon.”

    nk (dbc370)

  156. Think that’s why Dubya and Michelle have such a special relationship? He shot down, or maybe rescued her from the wreckage of, the Klingon spaceship she was on when he flew for TANGO? You know, there’s a lot of things the government isn’t telling us about UFOs and the space aliens among us.

    nk (dbc370)

  157. More like the drakh from enemy mine

    https://youtu.be/qmhAel-hGf8

    Seriously they didn’t think detaining 300 of their countrymen was a favor, nor ignoring their reservations about Iraq among others

    Narciso (50a424)

  158. Just thinking that it never bothered anyone until now.

    mg (ef2c8e)

  159. Moderates in that place are a little odd, consider one fellow al ghodaibi who had a
    Thing for celebrating suicide bombers through poetry, he was the UK envoy before prince turki.

    Narciso (50a424)

  160. Trump disputes CIA conclusions.

    “It’s mean, nasty world out there.” – SoS Mike Pompeo

    And Putin smiled…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. Well seeing that putin is on the side of assad, probably

    https://amgreatness.com/2018/11/19/big-medias-power-games-and-the-khashoggi-affair/

    narciso (d1f714)

  162. the CIA pissed away their credibility

    everybody knows they’re corrupt and sleazy now

    and if you work with them you get killed cause they’re so incompetent and untrustworthy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  163. Aaaaand Donnie Boy is still acting like Shultz about the murder.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  164. Aaaaand Donnie Boy is still acting like Shultz about the murder.

    Hey, Shultzy was a kind-hearted teddy bear.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67)

  165. Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67) — 11/20/2018 @ 2:33 pm

    Haha! But a cowering, cowardly Nazi nevertheless.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  166. Haha! But a cowering, cowardly Nazi nevertheless.

    Well sure. But he was still a nice guy. You really can’t know though, he could have been, he might not be, he could have been a 400lb man in the basement, you just can’t know.

    Oh, you have pictures, Weta Digital did those, he’s really 2 meters and 70Kilos. Fake news.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67)

  167. Haha! But a cowering, cowardly Nazi nevertheless.

    “You have people who are very fine people on both sides.”

    Dave (9664fc)

  168. A reminder:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/pspoole/status/1065017068830015490

    Khashoggi probably recommended those deliveries

    Narciso (4b438d)

  169. then there’s this reminder

    https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort

    narciso (d1f714)

  170. said missiles have often ended up in the hands of Islamic state, and nusra front,

    narciso (d1f714)

  171. Donald Trump’s position on the murder seems to be now:

    1. Maybe Mohammed bin Sultan plotted it, and maybe he didn’t.

    2. The CIA is not absolutely certain in its evalaution (i.e. beyond a reasonable doubt)

    3. Our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, not with any individual

    (but that doesn’t stop him from wanting to meet wiith MbS. On the other hand no one objects to any official meeting ordealing with Putin. But then Putin is not considered any kind of an ally.)

    4. He’s for America First, which means making a profit from arms sales, which if the U.S. didn’t sell, Russia and China and (who else does he have in mind?) would.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  172. Drip drip srio.

    Mohammed bin Salman (or Saudi Arabbian officialdom) is twisting slowly slowly in the wind.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/254993

    Transcripts from Khashoggi recordings released..

    A Turkish news site published quotations from two recordings made in the final minutes of the life of Jamal Khashoggi, the journalist who was murdered at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. The site relied on Turkish security sources.

    According to the Habertürk report, there are two recordings. The first took place in Unit A of the Consulate, which includes the visa department, and is about seven minutes long.

    It begins from the moment the Saudi assassination team captures Khashoggi at 1:14 pm on October 2. Khashoggi can be heard saying to those who grab hold of him: “Let go of my hand, what do you think you are doing?”

    The second recording took place in the administrative Unit B and lasts about 4 minutes. It also includes noises of physical struggle, and then beatings and torture.

    According to the report, the voices of seven people are heard in the recordings, in addition to Khashoggi. The Turks identified one of them as Maher Abdul Aziz Mutrib, head of the assassination team and close associate of Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman.

    More than an hour later, the voice of the Saudi engineer who disguised himself as Khashoggi to create the impression that Khashoggi had left the consulate is heard saying, “It’s strange to wear the clothes of the one we killed 20 minutes ago,” and complaining that Khashoggi’s shoes are small on him.

    Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar told the BBC that Turkey had not bugged the consulate, but declined to say where the tapes came from.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  173. according to the people familiar with the matter

    means people not working for the CIA.

    It may not be a leak of classified information. It may be alie, too, you know. (about the tel call in US)

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  174. Yes were basically outsourcing Turkish intelligence:
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/11/trump-stands-with-saudi-arabia.php

    Narciso (cc845e)

  175. Gone 20 years ago this past May… https://youtu.be/qCNOazL4Adc

    What a shame.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  176. Twenty two, yes a rare talent.

    Narciso (cc845e)

  177. This makes absolutely no sense and is not mentioned at all by the New York Times.

    No, just the WaPo. And you are right, not only does it make no sense but no intelligence officer would ever reveal what this reveals. I’m beginning to think this story in manufactured.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  178. Well, then, consider the idea that backing Erdogan furthers our interests more than backing the Saudis at this point.

    No, because you cannot trust him to keep a deal. The Israelis thought he was their guy once.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  179. Trump could have used the Khashoggi murder for leverage, such as getting an American citizen released from the Saudi “justice” system, but human rights and protecting American citizens who weren’t born here aren’t a priority, apparently.

    Paul Montagu (70fe18)

  180. You know how many Americans he has actually freed as compared to Obama who didn’t even ask for Robert Levinson’s whereabouts.

    Narciso (69bae6)

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