Patterico's Pontifications

8/24/2018

John McCain Ending Treatment for His Terminal Cancer

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:18 pm



Nobody has had more policy disagreements with John McCain than Donald Trump me. Nobody! Still, I was sad to see this news:

Senator John McCain of Arizona, who has been battling brain cancer for more than a year, will no longer be treated for his condition, his family announced on Friday, a sign that the Republican war hero is most likely entering his final days.

“Last summer, Senator John McCain shared with Americans the news our family already knew: He had been diagnosed with an aggressive glioblastoma, and the prognosis was serious. In the year since, John has surpassed expectations for his survival. But the progress of disease and the inexorable advance of age render their verdict,” the family said in a statement. “With his usual strength of will, he has now chosen to discontinue medical treatment.”

Matt Welch wrote a book about McCain, and he has a thread on Twitter that is worth your time.

In that thread, he embeds this video, which he says “feels like from another planet”:

I liked this observation in particular:

I know, I know: Trump won and McCain lost. That is, I believe, more a function of Trump running against Hillary Clinton (the most unattractive candidate of our lifetime) than it is a function of one needing to be a flaming asshole in order to win an election. But many have internalized the equation “asshole behavior = victory” and we’ll be fighting that misconception for a long time.

McCain pissed me off many, many times. But he’s a far better human being than Donald Trump (I’m sorry for the absurdly faint praise, Senator) and he is owed some respect at this point in time for the good aspects of his character. Best of luck to him and his family in facing the tough times just on the horizon.

P.S. I am asking you to be civil in this thread. And I mean very civil. If you can’t be civil in this thread, that’s a good indication that you need to be tossed off this Web site for good. I have an itchy ban finger. Do you feel lucky, punk?

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

138 Responses to “John McCain Ending Treatment for His Terminal Cancer”

  1. happyfeet is still moderated for his “cancer drool” comment — nice timing, that! — and that will likely last until about a week after McCain passes.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. He drove me nuts when his “Maverick” peacock flares…

    But, you can’t deny that he’s a fucking hero in the service, and that he did honorably (as best as a politician can be) in his time with the Senate.

    Makes my heart twinge that we coulda had President McCain as opposed to Obama.

    whembly (d40ad5)

  3. I have never understood the necessity to be so *personally* nasty about a person with whom you disagree. It’s dehumanizing, and it is something that no one appreciates when it is done to people they know.

    If you will look around the web, you will see the most horrible unfeeling and inhumane comments by safely anonymous people directed not just McCain, but his family. And I think that says everything about those people.

    It is possible to salute McCain’s service, disagree with his politics (and even aspects of his personality), and offer condolences to his family over their impending loss. I do all of these things, personally.

    This is not weak. It’s is honorable, and good.

    Thank you, Patterico.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  4. A tough way to go out. May his family find comfort.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. Yes, Colonel. His pain will be ending. His family, not so much.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  6. Like Nixon, resigned to fate… but not his Senate seat.

    Sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. Hillary Clinton (the most unattractive candidate of our lifetime)

    She might have beat the Bob Dole of 1996.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  8. GW Bush twice denied McCain the White House. First, in 2000, South Carolina primary was one of those pivotal moments, where he fell victim to a whisper-smear campaign. Then in 2008 when, with exquisite timing, Bush handed McCain a massive financial/liquidity meltdown in the economy just six or seven weeks before election day. There is no doubt in my mind that he would’ve been a better president than Obama, and that he would’ve lived long enough in office to pick someone else for VP in 2012.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  9. By holding on to his Senate seat he made sure that the eventual replacement would not have to stand for election in 2018.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  10. Naval aviators are in a class all their own. ‘They’re better than pilots’ as the saying goes. It’s easy to disagree w/McCain over his years in government and find flaws. We all have them. But in the end, I suspect few of us could command the level of physical endurance and personal courage displayed on so many fronts by McCain. His father was a tough act to follow. He has done that. And done it well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. I salute him, his service and everything positive he has done.

    harkin (c0421f)

  12. The Onion hasn’t been funny for awhile and today’s couple of entries on McCain are no exception:
    Meghan McCain Forced To Live Out Socialist Nightmare Of Empathy For Sick Person
    John McCain Requests Ashes Be Launched Into Iraq

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  13. He has lived a life worthy of emulation and respect — regardless of policy differences.

    He could have done a lot of other things following his return from Vietnam — he could have left the Senate many times in the last 30 years — and made tens of millions of dollars in the defense industry. He never did — he continued to serve.

    God Speed Senator McCain.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  14. He made many good decisions and did many good deeds and I wish him Godspeed and grace.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  15. Well they are owned by univision now, which is this close to selling the furniture, to kedp the lights on

    Narciso (3e2620)

  16. An American original and may his soul find peace and comfort for his corporeal being took many punishments. We had our chance and in that regard damn Bush 43 (see Paul Ma’s post above) and damn Bob Corker and his Call Me playmate for taking Harold Ford – a far less seditious form of corrupt – away as the prospective 1st black president.

    urbanleftbehind (cc7e6a)

  17. McCain loved our country and served it with honor.

    Steady as she goes, sailor.

    Anchors Aweigh, my boys,
    Anchors Aweigh.
    Farewell to foreign shores,
    We sail at break of day-ay-ay-ay.
    Through our last night ashore,
    Drink to the foam,
    Until we meet once more.
    Here’s wishing you a happy voyage home.

    Dave (445e97)

  18. First, in 2000, South Carolina primary was one of those pivotal moments, where he fell victim to a whisper-smear campaign. Then in 2008 when, with exquisite timing, Bush handed McCain a massive financial/liquidity meltdown in the economy just six or seven weeks before election day.

    With all due respect, neither of those were Bush’s doing.

    The whispering campaign was the work of a professor at Bob Jones University.

    The financial crisis was the work of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Frank and the rest of the Democrats.

    Prior to the meltdown, Bush called for reform of the GSEs 17 times in 2008 alone. He and his cabinet had been warning Congress of the need for greater oversight of GSEs since April 2001. John McCain introduced a bill in 2005 that would have likely prevented or greatly softened the meltdown; unanimous Democrat opposition prevented it from ever reaching the floor for a vote.

    Dave (445e97)

  19. Well he has been, when strom Thurmond was on his last days, I think Daschle was trying to scare him with loud noises.

    Narciso (3e2620)

  20. His suffering as a POW merits a serious salute.

    Not much else does.

    His refusal to step down knowing he was terminal, or at a bare minimum, significantly incapacitated and literally unable to vote in the Senate, is more typical of his self-centered, not other-centered, life. He did this despite the fact his age and medical history made it unlikely he would well serve out his term which he claimed less than two years ago. His final (non)act is one of ultimate selfishness.

    He is a Swamp Creature of the first rank, as his Keating Five disgrace showed.

    I sincerely wish him redemption and a favorable judgment by our Lord.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  21. Jeez, Ed.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  22. He is 81 years old. He went through some hard times: Five and a half years in the Hanoi Hilton and 38 years in Phoenix, Arizona. But he has also had a full and fulfilled life. He achieved the rank of United States Senator, his name is a household word, and he married a gorgeous blonde who was the heiress to a beer distributorship. If McCain-Feingold is what brings down Trump he’ll go laughing out loud.

    nk (dbc370)

  23. I think they waived that part of the law, there was a little humor in how he abided. by the act and Obama didn’t, and yet he didn’t learn any lesson from that exercise

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. I sincerely wish him redemption and a favorable judgment by our Lord.
    Ed from SFV (6d42fa) — 8/24/2018 @ 8:39 pm

    Amen. I pray for his soul. And if he enters paradise, God willing, I hope he prays for me.

    felipe (023cc9)

  25. He’ll always be a true war hero. I will miss him.

    JRM (c80289)

  26. nk (dbc370) — 8/24/2018 @ 9:01 pm

    Yes, when one is more than famous, you could say they are in-famous. Still, the Lord did not die for the righteous, but for the sinner, that he may have the right, in all justice to have mercy on those whose just punishment he took on in their place.

    felipe (023cc9)

  27. McCain was apparently never one to be overawed by authority.

    In the naval academy, he received 100 demerits every year, making him a member of what they called “The Century Club”. He graduated fifth from the bottom of his class, 894 out of 899, largely due to sloppy appearance, rebellious attitude and conduct.

    Another amusing story (h/t: Wikipedia) I read concerned his first run for political office, as a congressman, in 1982. McCain ran for an open seat in Arizona, where he had just moved after retiring from the navy in 1981. Since he had only just moved to Arizona, he faced charges of being a carpetbagger. He responded to one voter’s challenge on that subject with what a veteran Phoenix columnist called “the most devastating response to a potential political problem I’ve ever heard:”

    Listen, pal. I spent 22 years in the Navy. My father was in the Navy. My grandfather was in the Navy. We in the military service tend to move a lot. We have to live in all parts of the country, all parts of the world. I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the First District of Arizona, but I was doing other things. As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I’ve lived longest in my life was Hanoi.

    Any further questions? :)

    Dave (445e97)

  28. @23. There’s this to ponder as well, nk; as a Navy baby, John will have more or less journeyed from ‘womb to the tomb’ and achieved stellar success through government service yet essentially never have held a private sector job. That’s really remarkable.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. He worked for his father-in-law’s company for a year between leaving the navy and running for congress.

    I was surprised to read that after returning from Vietnam, he was eventually able to return to flight status and commanded a training squadron in 1976. Tough customer.

    Dave (445e97)

  30. @30- Right, Cindy’s gig– a Pr thing which is a bit of a fudge, really. Like DJT Jr., working for Daddy. He wasn’t like, selling dishwasher at Sears or cutting deals on Madison Avenue.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. I was surprised to read that after returning from Vietnam, he was eventually able to return to flight status and commanded a training squadron in 1976. Tough customer.

    He had some experience and cache for sure and at that period of time, post-Vietnm, the military wasn’t all that popular and they needed and used everyone they could get.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. @30. Postscript. One thing is certain; he has earned the respect Yankee Doodle Bonespur is dead-set to deny him. It’s petty. And it’s envy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. John mccain is a good man that I have disagreements with. enough said.

    wendell (a9eb53)

  34. Attention to citation.

    CITATION:

    The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Flying Cross to Commander [then Lieutenant Commander] John Sidney McCain, III (NSN: 0-624787), United States Navy, for heroism while participating in aerial flight on 26 October 1967 in North Vietnam. While attacking the thermal power plant at Hanoi, Commander McCain, despite extremely heavy and accurate anti-aircraft fire and more than fifteen surface-to-air missiles in the air, pursued the attack until his aircraft was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire. Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target. By his exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty, Commander McCain reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

    He is a

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  35. f***ing hero. and hate him.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  36. The whispering campaign was the work of a professor at Bob Jones University.

    That’s what Rove says but it’s arguable because it was too coordinated, what with the flyers and push polls and whatnot. It had all the hallmarks of a Turd Blossom operation, with the nasty stuff done by 3rd parties for plausible deniability. In 2008, it was just a fact a massive financial/liquidity meltdown and resulting recession occurred under Bush’s watch less than two months before a presidential election; it would’ve made it all the easier for any Democrat to win.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  37. He could have been president if he would have taken the other side of the bailout debate, instead 8 horrible years of obama.

    mg (8cbc69)

  38. …as his Keating Five disgrace showed.

    That’s Obama wanted voters to believe, but it was fact-checked. McCain and Glenn were cleared, and they were recommended by the Ethics Committee special counsel that the two Senators be dropped, but they weren’t by the Democrat-led committee, for base political reasons. It should’ve been the Keating Three, with all three being Democrats, but the Dems wanted a Republican to blame too, so that it wasn’t all on them, and McCain was the closest they could find, which means Glenn had to be tossed in there as well.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  39. But then he compounded the problem by proposing Andrew Cuomo, who had peddled subprime as head of hud,

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  40. He confused his own experience at the laogai with that of al Ayers terrorist, something none of his brethren there did.

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  41. The Navy just doesn’t hand out out the the DFC like candy, soes you know.

    Props on him for putting bombs on target. Something I would guess 99.9997% have never done.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  42. Under fire.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  43. He confused his own experience at the laogai with that of al Ayers terrorist…

    ???

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  44. Ive seen bridges of to kori, he reminds me a little of William Holden part

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  45. I’ll always have respect for Mr. McCain – I thought seriously about voting for him. I especially like that he recognized the damage that “We have the best politicians that money can buy” can do (and has done) to our country.

    For those of you up this thread who can’t resist taking pot-shots at him in his deathbed, you lack common decency and I hope you are banned. There is a time for politics and a time to pay respects. Obviously this post was for the latter, but you just can’t help yourselves.

    Tillman (d34303)

  46. Men who go to war, who fight an enemy with seemingly unlimited will, who have only a bland mange populace to fall back on,

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  47. Like you, I’ve been at odds with McCain on numerous issues, and when he faced off with Obama, I could not bring myself to vote for either (threw my vote away on a third-party candidate). His “hundred-years-in-Iraq-if-necessary” comment left me cold. But at the same time I’ve always had a certain respect for him. He deserves it because of what he went through as a POW, and I could not understand how Trump’s gratuitous and mean-spirited comments about him didn’t derail his candidacy.

    Roger (40d127)

  48. . If McCain-Feingold is what brings down Trump he’ll go laughing out loud.

    I have to hand it to nk – sometimes he turns up a golden nugget like this.

    Tillman (d34303)

  49. And as such he betrayed those values he went to war to defend, and yet the dems still ridiculed him (recall that jibe about not being tech savvy) as they ridiculed Stockdale for the eardrum the regime torturers had blown out. (Dennis Miller reminded us of that)

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  50. I think it was clear he was trying to make the point, one must have the will to prevail. But I wonder as with Afghanistan where does the end Lori, now coming up on our 17th year.

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  51. Of course he was gravely wrong in saying ‘we had nothing to fear about Barack Obama’ which the CNN clip elides.

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  52. 29. That’s not something I would brag about.

    Gryph (08c844)

  53. His “hundred-years-in-Iraq-if-necessary” comment left me cold.

    After American experiences in Germany, Japan, Turkey, Korea and Kosovo there’s reason to think he was justified in saying making this point.

    Unless there is some semantic aspect to the word “necessary” that I’m missing here.

    JP (9d9c55)

  54. His “hundred-years-in-Iraq-if-necessary” comment left me cold.

    That was one of Obama’s whoppers of 2008.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  55. Thanks Paul. Good to remember, heaven forfend, that Saint Obama could be parsimonious with the truth.

    JP (9d9c55)

  56. “GW Bush twice denied McCain the White House. First, in 2000, South Carolina primary was one of those pivotal moments, where he fell victim to a whisper-smear campaign.”

    Everyone in the conservative media hated McCain, he was the dictionary definition of a RINO for long, long before 2008.

    “Then in 2008 when, with exquisite timing, Bush handed McCain a massive financial/liquidity meltdown in the economy just six or seven weeks before election day. There is no doubt in my mind that he would’ve been a better president than Obama, and that he would’ve lived long enough in office to pick someone else for VP in 2012.”

    McCain supported almost every prior expensive Bush policy that led to the meltdown, in addition to tempermentally turning off large sections of his party’s voting bloc repeatedly. Do not delude yourself. He had no chance.

    He can be mourned as an American who occasionally did great things before he came to office.

    He should never be mourned as a great Republican. It was on balance necessary and good for the country that he and those who nominated him lost. Much like Robert Mueller, he was a one-time hero who let his heroism be used as a shield for his later regular government work leading Beltway intel fixing and cover-up operations for various three-letter agencies forever after. His administrative state co-workers all spoke well of him. His voting constituents did not.

    Mourn the heights of his martial humanity, mourn the depths to which he sunk when Washington got its claws into him, but never, ever mourn him as an example for the rest of the Republicans to follow.

    Essence Thief (d3c061)

  57. He did some good, he made some mistakes, the ones the press don’t dwell on,

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  58. It would probably be better that McCain not live to see the day if Bettany Rodriguez Avilera is elected to the US House as a Republican.

    Bettina Rodriguez Aguilera, a GOP congressional candidate who says she was abducted by aliens when she was a child, said she doesn’t want to be defined by her extraterrestrial experience.
    “It has nothing to do with what I have done,” Rodriguez Aguilera told The Associated Press in an article published Friday. “It happened when I was 7 years old.”

    It’s too bad we didn’t hear the recounting of her experience here.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  59. Bettina Rodriguez Aguilera,

    The brain abhors a vacuum. When it suffers physical damage that destroys a part of it and along with it memories, it creates false memories to fill the vacuum. It is considered a neurological condition, not a psychological condition. TL;DR The poor kid got hit hard on the head when she was seven.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. It’s Doral, they also have a mayor who made a fortune selling goods to chavez’s regime.

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  61. McCain supported almost every prior expensive Bush policy that led to the meltdown

    No “expensive Bush policy” led to any meltdown.

    In 2007 the budget deficit was 1% of GDP (i.e. negligible).

    Trump’s deficit this year will be over 4% of GDP.

    Dave (445e97)

  62. So narrative dictated that Thurmond be hated, but bob Byrd revered and hollings history be sandblasted entirely* I don’t get it.

    * he was the one that first flew the conferdera

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  63. Confederate, because of his role in enabling Obama’s accession, and some subsequent moves he will be celebrated.

    Narciso (0a4db9)

  64. P O Ws
    they took it to hog chi minh
    swinging richards all

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. That’s what Rove says but it’s arguable because it was too coordinated, what with the flyers and push polls and whatnot.

    It’s what the New York Times says:

    People in some areas of South Carolina began to receive phone calls in which self-described pollsters would ask, “Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?”

    It was a reference to Bridget, who was adopted as a baby from an orphanage in Bangladesh and is darker skinned than the rest of the McCain family. Richard Hand, a professor at Bob Jones University, sent an e-mail message to “fellow South Carolinians” telling recipients that Mr. McCain had “chosen to sire children without marriage.”

    I’ve received telephone push polls from City Council candidates in my little town of 25,000 or so (the questions were identical in format too…). It doesn’t take a national campaign organization to make them, and South Carolina, frankly, still has some unsavory folks who didn’t get the message after the Civil War.

    I think it’s irresponsible to accuse a good man like George W. Bush of this when he has never voiced or adhered to such repulsive views, and there is ZERO evidence whatsoever that he was responsible in this case.

    In 2008, it was just a fact a massive financial/liquidity meltdown and resulting recession occurred under Bush’s watch less than two months before a presidential election

    A meltdown that Bush and his cabinet members had been warning Congress about, and begging them to pass legislation to prevent, for seven and half years.

    Dave (445e97)

  66. The push polls weren’t done by that Bob Jones professor, Dave, nor did he mass-produce fliers.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  67. Tsk, tsk, ConDave.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. The push polls weren’t done by that Bob Jones professor, Dave, nor did he mass-produce fliers.

    Source?

    Dave (445e97)

  69. Taking a powder vs. Obama, his insane concept of “honor”, and his crazy temperament, well, wish his family well. Recall Nancy Reagan hated him; she was a good judge of character. And …thanks?…for Obamacare not being repealed. But really all that pales to this-

    http://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/

    Bugg (acadb3)

  70. He ‘fessed up to the email, nothing else, and Rove had developed a, uh, reputation by that time. Maybe it was just all a big coincidence that there was a 1994 push poll that asked if voters would be more or less inclined to vote for Ann Richards if they knew her staff was dominated by lesbians, but I don’t believe in those kinds of coincidences.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  71. unz.com is chock full of racists.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  72. He should never be mourned as a great Republican… but never, ever mourn him as an example for the rest of the Republicans to follow.

    Why would any sane soul even consider mourning another’s passing for their political party affiliation? That’s just stupid.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. @45. Very little. Cindy’s no Grace Kelly.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. You can disagree w/McCain and his various positions and decisions through his political life but I, for one, totally admire his devotion to country, his personal courage and willingness to battle as a man ‘in the arena.’ Running for office is hard. So was enduring being a POW. He’s a survivor and has fought to the end.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  75. the unz link is to a well written conspiracy theory.

    McCain (may he finally rest in peace, his pain over, soul restored)

    They say that people under torture go places in their minds to go away from the pain centers in the brain. Neurologists out there, please set me straight, nut my understanding is that neural pathways get over exercised and the body defaults quickly to the severe pain memory and the places in the mind that offer refuge (not that the pain is experienced, just that spot in the mind has a 12 lane freeway to it)

    I can’t begin to imagine how I personally would take that level of torture and where I would go in my mind, how that would manifest itself on my outside when threatened, or angered. We laugh about idiots and their “triggers”, but imagine McCain’s… you don’t have to be right about what he’d really do, but that empathy exercise helps understand that McCain probably went to very dark places, very quickly.

    If we were to find that some of Vietnam’s torturers have immigrated here, we should find them, and deport them back to Hanoi on an inner tube with five gallons of water and a pair of flippers

    steveg (a9dcab)

  76. For once, I have totally agree with DCSCA.

    AMong the things he survived was the Forrestal fire.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  77. If we were to find that some of Vietnam’s torturers have immigrated here, we should find them, and deport them back to Hanoi on an inner tube with five gallons of water, a pair of flippers and bleeding lacerations of teh leg.

    FIFY

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  78. He served our nation in the military. I hope he finds Christ and asks for forgiveness before the end.

    NJRob (b00189)

  79. Regarding same video as the one linked here:

    James Hasson
    @JamesHasson20
    It’s worth pointing out that the same man who is justly receiving praise for this moment of civility was smeared by Democrats and more than a few journalists as a racist during that very campaign. One Dem congressman compared him to George Wallace.

    harkin (c0421f)

  80. Rove had developed a, uh, reputation by that time. Maybe it was just all a big coincidence that there was a 1994 push poll that asked if voters would be more or less inclined to vote for Ann Richards if they knew her staff was dominated by lesbians, but I don’t believe in those kinds of coincidences.

    Rumors about rumors. You still haven’t offered a shred of evidence that Rove, much less Bush, had a hand in these things.

    Concerning Richards, I will point out that there is a difference between a push poll that informs people of something truthful about the opponent, and one based on a racist lie. Push-polling is sneaky, but many forms of advertising are sneaky.

    In 1994, many, especially conservatives, considered homosexuality as a disqualification. Homosexual behavior was unlawful in Texas until 2003. People were being arrested and prosecuted for homosexuality as recently as 1998, leading to the decision that invalidated the law. And Richards did have lesbians on her staff.

    In the intervening quarter century, attitudes have obviously changed, along with the law, and I think that’s a good thing. But I don’t view the Richards incident – even if factual – as comparable to the attack on McCain’s adopted daughter.

    Dave (445e97)

  81. “Why would any sane soul even consider mourning another’s passing for their political party affiliation? That’s just stupid.

    And likewise for cheering deaths of conservatives, which places a lot of liberals in loony bin territory.

    harkin (c0421f)

  82. John McCain’s life has been so full of important events that individual rememberinces can easily select a focus, pro or con, to reinforce a variety of intended themes. For me, McCain’s petty revenge vote against (Trump) repeal of ObamaCare marks the lowest point in the political Maverick’s largely admirable career.

    ropelight (f5864b)

  83. “In 2007 the budget deficit was 1% of GDP (i.e. negligible).

    Trump’s deficit this year will be over 4% of GDP.”

    Good thing 2007 wasn’t a bubble year that immediately crashed the year after, huh?

    Essence Thief (d3c061)

  84. For me, McCain’s petty revenge vote against (Trump) repeal of ObamaCare marks the lowest point in the political Maverick’s largely admirable career.

    So you think he was lying when he explained the reasons for his vote in detail?

    From the beginning, I have believed that Obamacare should be repealed and replaced with a solution that increases competition, lowers costs, and improves care for the American people. The so-called ‘skinny repeal’ amendment the Senate voted on today would not accomplish those goals. While the amendment would have repealed some of Obamacare’s most burdensome regulations, it offered no replacement to actually reform our health care system and deliver affordable, quality health care to our citizens. The Speaker’s statement that the House would be ‘willing’ to go to conference does not ease my concern that this shell of a bill could be taken up and passed at any time.

    If all he cared about was “revenge”, wouldn’t it be much more gratifying to name the target at least once?

    Also, the “skinny repeal” bill that McCain voted against was not going to become law. In fact, McCain was promised that it would not be passed by the House and sent to the president as-is, if he voted for it.

    Instead, the process would have basically started all over, this time with a House/Senate committee trying to iron out a magic compromise bill that could pass both chambers while jumping through all the hoops necessary to satisfy reconciliation. In other words, the same thing they had just spent weeks trying without success. The result would have still needed to pass the House and get 50 votes in the Senate.

    “Skinny repeal” was really just a way to postpone admitting that they could not simultaneously satisfy the House, the Senate and the constraints of reconciliation. McCain voted against it because he was afraid that when the process of hammering out a replacement bill failed, the House would simply pass “this shell of a bill” which did not “increase competition, lower costs and improve care”.

    Dave (445e97)

  85. Good thing 2007 wasn’t a bubble year that immediately crashed the year after, huh?

    You falsely claimed “McCain supported almost every prior expensive Bush policy that led to the meltdown”.

    Bush’s policies did not lead to any meltdown. Failure to heed Bush’s warnings did.

    Also, 2007 wasn’t “a bubble year”. The economy only grew at a rate of 1.7%. Unemployment rose slightly, by 0.5% (to 5.0%).

    In short, you’re regurgitating nonsense you’ve heard elsewhere and don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

    Dave (445e97)

  86. well the officials who did oversee the torture of McCain as well stockdale, denton, day, tanner, etc, did end up high up in the Cuban govt, tourism and asst health ministries

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. @39 Paul Montagu – In the Keating Five disgrace, McCain acted as a consummate Swamp creature and admitted it: “The appearance of it was wrong. It’s a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do.”

    Senate rules are notoriously friendly to Senators. It takes quite a lot to gain any kind of sanction. McCain did what those lizards do as a matter of course. At a minimum, this behavior does not merit the outsized praise he is now receiving for his political career.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  88. #87

    If they ever leave Cuba, they should be followed and arrested. Or have their plane go splash

    steveg (a9dcab)

  89. “Why would any sane soul even consider mourning another’s passing for their political party affiliation? That’s just stupid.“

    If you want to see the vitriolic hate toward McCain, go here, where is accused of everything from collaborating with the enemy to causing the USS Forrestal disaster.

    Rip Murdock (8c380f)

  90. Good thing 2007 wasn’t a bubble year that immediately crashed the year after, huh?

    Funny, the same thing happened right after Bubba’s balanced budget.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  91. One other thing about McCain I personally admire– perhaps most of all:

    He’s funny.

    Google some of his spots doing SNL over the years and give then a watch. Knowing all he’d been through he could still make you laugh- and laugh at himself. That’s classy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  92. “For the second time this year, Senator John McCain appears to have preserved the signature domestic achievement of the man who once kept him from the presidency.

    The Arizona Republican on Friday announced that he could not “in good conscience” support the latest GOP proposal to substantially repeal the Affordable Care Act, all but certainly dooming the effort.”The Atlantic – 2017

    http://hiddenamericans.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DFzP6RbXkAA7hrX-563×353.jpg

    harkin (9803a7)

  93. Naw bob dole was funnier.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  94. Like when he said of the sad at funeral. ‘See no evil, hear no evil, and evil’

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  95. @95. You mean Norm MacDonald.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  96. He was referreing to Carter, Ford, and nixon.

    Narciso (1eb6be)

  97. R.I.P. John McCain

    Well done, sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  98. R.I.P. John McCain

    Well done, sir.

    So “ending treatment” meant taking him off life support?

    nk (dbc370)

  99. Go, and sin no more.

    ropelight (7ed0f8)

  100. The Unz link is to Sidney Schanberg of “The Killing Fields”, a liberal veteran who nonetheless had this story down cold. It’s well-documented. He is not some crazy nutball but a recognized and highly-respected journalist. Recall NY Republican Congressman John Leboutlier said the same exact thing repeatedly for years. It’s way easier to dismiss something as RAYCESS than, I don’t know, read it and the sources it draws on.

    While I voted for McCain, his warmongering and hair trigger temper might have been in many ways worse than Obama.

    Bugg (acadb3)

  101. Mis-timed but not mis-cast. R.I.P.

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  102. Senate rules are notoriously friendly to Senators.

    If that were true, then the Dem-majority ethics committee would have listened to their own legal counsel and exonerated both him and Glenn, but they didn’t. What is true is that McCain took a meeting, nothing came of it, and then he was lumped into a scandal with other Democrats by other Democrats.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  103. The Unz link is to Sidney Schanberg of “The Killing Fields”, a liberal veteran who nonetheless had this story down cold.

    I think there’s a reason why Schanberg’s work on this didn’t go beyond the left fringe and the right fringe. This wasn’t just about McCain. He was one of several members on the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, yet he’s the one being singled out even though he was minority member, and this piece was timed less than two months before a presidential election, helpfully piggy-backed on by a left-wing rag like The Nation. Also, the committee made their determination eighteen years after the war ended, and this comes out fifteen years after that. Also, I believe this remark…

    It’s not clear whether the taped confession McCain gave to his captors to avoid further torture has played a role in his postwar behavior in the Senate.

    …signaled that Schanberg was not operating in good faith. He was questioning McCain’s conduct as a POW, not unlike McCain’s protagonists on the far and alt right.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  104. “He was one of several members on the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, yet he’s the one being singled out even though he was minority member”

    Why would anyone ever single out the one member on an underperforming committee who actually *was* a high-profile POW, like it was actually notable or something.

    Since the media will be glutted from page to shining page with paeans to their preferred turncoat that they would have never printed in 2008, a little reminder:

    Ross Perot on John McCain:

    “McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory. After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.”

    “Trump is actually the real hero, John McCain actually the reckless incompetent traitorous showboating adulterer with a questionable trail of dead bodies and shady foreign connections who owes everything to Daddy’s influence.”

    Essence Thief (d3c061)

  105. And then we wonder why Facebook, YouTube and Apple want to ban Trump fellators.

    nk (dbc370)

  106. Ross Perot on John McCain:
    “McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory. After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.”
    “Trump is actually the real hero, John McCain actually the reckless incompetent traitorous showboating adulterer with a questionable trail of dead bodies and shady foreign connections who owes everything to Daddy’s influence.”

    This is actually fascinating. I googled the colorful part of the Perot quote and the result was a single link to this discussion board (which has the subtitle “Whether it’s true or not is irrelevant”), which linked to The Daily Mail, which contains the first paragraph but not the second. The second paragraph was written by a pseudonymous troll on that discussion board, so it’s FAKENEWS, a lie as it were.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  107. As opposed to the times reporter, who was fed the adultery rumor by John weaver, real or memorex

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. I wondered about that “quote,” Paul. The second paragraph did not sound like Perot. Thank you for researching it. Perot’s real quote comes from 2008. Perot said that about McCain in part because they had a history on POW issues, but also because Perot was supporting Mitt Romney in the 2008 GOP primary.

    I think it is disgraceful to attribute words to another person that they did not say and aren’t here to deny, Essence Thief, especially words like that. I think it is deplorable to use fake quotes to slur a dead man’s legacy for political gain.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  109. I think it is disgraceful to attribute words to another person that they did not say and aren’t here to deny, Essence Thief, especially words like that. I think it is deplorable to use fake quotes to slur a dead man’s legacy for political gain.

    Did someone say deplorable? Welcome to TrumpWorld, where truth isn’t truth and no lie is too big or too vile.

    Dave (445e97)

  110. Did someone say deplorable? Welcome to TrumpWorld, where truth isn’t truth and no lie is too big or too vile.

    Also ten years ago, I fact-checked all kinds of false claims made by liberals, directed at McCain, at this site (www.theforvm*dot*org) and it’s unsettling how all these same factually questionable claims are now being regurgitated by ardent Trump supporters. Trump basically demagogues his opponents like the ex-Democrat he was, and his most loyal supporters are in lock-step, disturbingly so.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  111. I think people who make up bad stories about famous people are insecure bullies. Trump is a classic example and a few of his supporters share that trait.

    DRJ (15874d)

  112. By the way, in the 2008 Perot interview I linked above, Perot supported Romney instead of McCain because of Romney’s character. Perot thought McCain lacked character in divorcing his injured first wife in order to marry a younger, wealthier woman. Given that opinion, with which I agree, I doubt Perot thinks Trump has an admirable character.

    DRJ (15874d)

  113. I want to add that I admire John McCain as a warrior, a survivor, a hard worker, and as a Dad. He seemed like a great Dad to his 7 children and having that many kids is a job in itself.

    DRJ (15874d)

  114. “China’s Communist Party is intensifying covert influence operations in the United States that include funding Washington think tanks and coercing Chinese Americans, according to a congressional commission report.

    The influence operations are conducted by the United Front Work Department, a Central Committee organ that employs tens of thousands of operatives who seek to use both overt and covert operations to promote Communist Party policies.

    The Party’s United Front strategy includes paying several Washington think tanks with the goal influencing their actions and adopting positions that support Beijing’s policies. . . .

    The report said the Johns Hopkins School of Advance International Studies, a major foreign policy education and analysis institute, has received funding from Tung Chee-hwa, a vice chairman of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, the party group that directs the United Front Work Department and includes a member of the Politburo Standing Committee, the collective dictatorship that rules China.

    The funding for Johns Hopkins came from Tung’s non-profit group in Hong Kong, the China-U.S. Exchange Foundation, which is a registered Chinese agent.

    In addition to Johns Hopkins, other think tanks linked to China and influential in American policy circles include the Brookings Institution, Atlantic Council, Center for American Progress, EastWest Institute, Carter Center, and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    The Exchange Foundation is tied to Chinese government influence operations and uses the same public relations firm as the Chinese embassy. . . .

    In addition to the United Front Work Department, the report identified a Chinese military organization, the Liaison Department, that is engaged in propaganda operations, perception management activities, and intelligence collection.

    “For example, the China Association for International Friendly Contact (CAIFC), a front organization for the former General Political Department, performs dual roles of intelligence collection and conducting propaganda and perception management campaigns, such as its work through the Sanya Initiative, a series of track two dialogues between retired senior flag officers of the U.S. and Chinese armed forces,” the report said.

    The Sanya Initiative is led by retired Adm. Bill Owens, a former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who has used the Sanya group to lobby Congress and the Pentagon against annual publication of the China Military Power report.

    Another Communist Party front is the China Association for International Friendly Contact that is part of the Chinese military’s Central Military Commission’s Political Work Department.

    The report concluded that the threat to the United States from United Front operations is “significant” but “the extent of its organization and influence is still relatively unknown among policymakers.”

    https://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinese-communist-party-funds-washington-think-tanks/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. R.I.P. Neil Simon

    Icy (2a33cc)

  116. Also ten years ago, I fact-checked all kinds of false claims made by liberals, directed at McCain, at this site (www.theforvm*dot*org) and it’s unsettling how all these same factually questionable claims are now being regurgitated by ardent Trump supporters. Trump basically demagogues his opponents like the ex-Democrat he was, and his most loyal supporters are in lock-step, disturbingly so.

    We see plenty of recycled Bush-derangement and Romney hate from the cultists too.

    It’s some kind ritual in which they project all the sins of their orange sewer-king onto others.

    Dave (445e97)

  117. Trump basically demagogues his opponents like the ex-Democrat he was, and his most loyal supporters are in lock-step, disturbingly so.

    Replying to myself, Bret Stephens sees it.

    It was all vintage Bill: deploying minions to lie about illicit sex (and twist the meaning of words); abusing the powers of the presidency to trash the reputations of others; converting his character flaws into a national convulsion. Clinton did all this, and so has Trump. What the former pioneered, the latter has simply taken to the next level.
    Thanks to the #MeToo movement, there’s been a long-delayed reconsideration among liberals about their past defense of (or relative indifference to) Clinton’s sexual predations. Monica Lewinsky and Juanita Broaddrick, once targets of left-wing snickering and contempt, have at last received a measure of respect as victims and survivors.
    But the reconsideration isn’t complete. On Wednesday, I noted that Republicans who demanded Clinton’s impeachment 20 years ago — because he had corrupted the moral fiber of the country and the legal fabric of the state — are hypocritical in refusing to apply the same logic to Trump.
    By the same token, liberals now calling for Trump’s impeachment ought to rethink the excuses so many of them made for Clinton 20 years ago. That it was “just sex.” Or that “lying about sex” doesn’t rise to the level of an impeachable offense (even if it’s lying about sex under oath). Or that “character doesn’t matter” so long as the administration produces peace and prosperity. Or that the motivating animus of the president’s critics is reason enough to dismiss the criticism.
    These excuses were toxic not because they had no merit, but because they sidestepped the core of the issue: that the survival and ennoblement of democracy depend on holding people in high office to higher, not lower, standards.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  118. Oh, and this.

    Clinton’s supposedly “small” lie about sex (like Trump’s “small” violation of campaign finance laws) was not so small coming from the one person uniquely entrusted to uphold and enforce the law. It sent a signal that lying would be politically acceptable and legally tolerated. Clinton’s lawyerly prevarications helped create the truth-optional standard by which the Trump presidency operates. The claim by Clinton’s defenders that his job performance immunized him from impeachment sowed the seed for Trump’s remark, in an interview with Fox News this week, that “I don’t know how you can impeach somebody who has done a great job.”
    Then, too, the Clinton machine’s relentless efforts to delegitimize the independent counsel by claiming Starr had gone far beyond his original remit to investigate the Whitewater case mirror the Trump machine’s attacks on Robert Mueller today.
    Yet what Starr did then is what Mueller and other prosecutors are doing now: uncovering wrongdoing where they find it. That Trump’s hush money to two women has nothing to do with Russia makes the wrongdoing no less contemptible, illegal — and, because it’s about the president, impeachable.
    Because the Clinton impeachment saga is still relatively recent, it’s been depressing — and instructive — to watch the two sides in that drama conveniently adopt the other’s former rationale for their own partisan convenience. (Lindsey Graham, this means you.)
    But anyone who now calls for Trump to be judged severely should acknowledge that we would have been in a better place today if Clinton hadn’t been so fervently defended back then. Among other things, it might have dissuaded other sexual predators and congenital liars from running for high office.

    I’m not Stephens on impeachment because I think we should all wait until Mueller’s final report (hopefully without significant redactions) to Rosy is revealed to the American people.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  119. Good link, Paul, and I agree. This part resonated with me:

    Clinton’s supposedly “small” lie about sex (like Trump’s “small” violation of campaign finance laws) was not so small coming from the one person uniquely entrusted to uphold and enforce the law. It sent a signal that lying would be politically acceptable and legally tolerated. Clinton’s lawyerly prevarications helped create the truth-optional standard by which the Trump presidency operates. The claim by Clinton’s defenders that his job performance immunized him from impeachment sowed the seed for Trump’s remark, in an interview with Fox News this week, that “I don’t know how you can impeach somebody who has done a great job.”

    Also, the Lindsey Graham parenthetical made me laugh, albeit wryly.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  120. You beat me to it, Paul. Sorry for the double post of that excerpt but I did not see yours before I posted mine.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  121. The only way to keep this from becoming the standard for all Presidents is for Republicans to hold Trump accountable. That doesn’t mean he must be impeached, but he must be criticized when he is wrong and he must change when he is wrong. The problem is that some people think Trump is never wrong. That’s what Clinton and Obama supporters thought about their Presidents, and that is what the GOP has become.

    DRJ (15874d)

  122. DRJ (15874d) — 8/26/2018 @ 10:19 am

    I think Ryan and McConnell should have read him the riot act back in early 2017: behave like an adult and apologize for your assaults on decency, or we will not confirm your nominees or pass your legislation, and we will cut the parts of the White House budget that allow you to live like a king (starting with travel to play golf) to nothing.

    Dave (445e97)

  123. They would have had to risk losing their political jobs to do that. Ryan did anyway, but I doubt many in DC are willing to risk their jobs by standing up to a President because of a principle. (In fairness, few of us will risk our jobs for principle.) That’s why I hate we’ve become a nation of professional politicians instead of citizens who have careers first and then serve politically.

    DRJ (15874d)

  124. I liked that about Ted Cruz. He was successful as an appellate attorney and he could always go back to that. It freed him to stand up for his beliefs, but now I think he loves the fame and power too much to risk losing his job by standing up for conscience.

    DRJ (15874d)

  125. I dunno DRJ. You are right that it is easy to tell others to take risks.

    On the other hand, I’m talking about refusing to accept behavior that is simply indefensible. The congress’s position would be “All he needs to do is apologize for being a toxic @sshole.” They wouldn’t be making policy demands, so it’s hard to see how Trump could justify non-compliance.

    Taking away his presidential perks would focus his attention like nothing else, I think, while inflicting no harm or inconvenience on anyone else.

    Dave (445e97)

  126. Your idea is great. I wish they would have done it but I don’t have any faith in GOPe politicians because they gave us Trump. They wouldn’t undermine their own choice.

    DRJ (15874d)

  127. The gope had Jeb bobbysoxes, look how utterly useless they have been

    Narciso (ad700c)

  128. The GOPe did try to stop Trump in the primaries, but ultimately most supported him after he was the nominee. Trump has supported the GOP establishment as President, so I guess he doesn’t think they are useless.

    DRJ (15874d)

  129. Like Brutus and Cassidy did caesar,

    Narciso (ad700c)

  130. Paul Montagu (9dcfd2) — 8/24/2018 @ 7:10 pm

    Then in 2008 when, with exquisite timing, Bush handed McCain a massive financial/liquidity meltdown in the economy just six or seven weeks before election day.

    How did Bush cause that? A whole series of policy mistakes by various people set that up. Mainly, raising interest rates in a world of adjustable rate mortgages. Perhaps, before making mortgages easier to get – and then making it harder. What exactly could you point to that George W. Bush did wrong?

    Now it wasn’t even that but McCain showing he did not understand it. Obama was cool and collected.

    There is no doubt in my mind that he would’ve been a better president than Obama, and that he would’ve lived long enough in office to pick someone else for VP in 2012.

    He probably would have picked Sarah Palin again. George HW Bush did not drop Dan Quayle in 1992..

    Also, Sarah Palin would not have had quite so bad a reputation for just saying things as she acquired later in real life.

    Hillary Clinton probably skips 2012. McCain, unless he’s a real failure, gets re-elected in 2012. The question is what then happens in 2016. There are too many possibilities to guess much of anything.

    Maybe somebody challenges McCain for the Republican nomination in 2012, but loses, and then becomes a contender in 2016. Maybe some figure emerges in either the Republican or the Democratic Party

    If it is Vice President Sarah Palin versus Senator Hillary Clinton in 2016, Sarah Palin wins, even without the email scandal, but maybe Hillary Clinton has more difficulty winning the nomination again without the benefit of Democrat un the White House. There’s still Obama, even though he thought 2008 was his only chance.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  131. When I heard John McCain was ending treating I thought this is Charles Krauthammer all over again. It’s the same lie about palliative care. Then it comes out his family is a gathering and you know it has to mean they think death is very close. And it was. The last statement did not carry John McCain’s name on it. The previous statements had. So that might mean he was unconscious already or near unconscious by the time it was released.

    They said the progress of disease and inexorable advance of age had rendered its verdict – but his mother is still alive at 106! You can say the progress of disease and maybe the Y chromosome.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  132. nk (dbc370) — 8/25/2018 @ 5:38 pm

    So “ending treatment” meant taking him off life support?

    I thought it meant stopping efforts to halt the progress of the disease and substituting “palliative care” which meant giving him enough morphine to kill him (but not a healthy person) because of his limited kidney and/or liver function.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  133. How did Bush cause that?

    It happened under his watch, and the financial/liquidity meltdown occurred within two months of the election. It would’ve been an impossible situation for any candidate. Bush was the president. He could’ve done more.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  134. Don’t you find that awfully suspicious there has never been a pop that severe in such a narrow window.

    Narciso (224a5a)

  135. Bush was the president. He could’ve done more.

    What more? Legislation was required. The GSEs are not under the president or the executive branch’s control, like a government agency. Bush was begging congress to let him do more for seven and a half years. And the Democrats refused.

    Dubya started warning congress in April 2001. He warned them 17 different times in 2008 alone.

    Barney Frank, chairman of the house banking committee, was (literally) in bed with the director of Fannie Mae. He blocked every attempt at reform or oversight. He issued statements saying that the administration was going to cause a panic with all their dire warnings. And that was, indeed, a very real possibility that Bush had to reckon with. Making a big stink about the financial solvency of the GSEs was the fastest way to push them over the edge.

    Frank almost certainly knew from his boyfriend who was running the scam that any outside scrutiny or accountability would bring the whole house of cards down.

    Dave (445e97)


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