Patterico's Pontifications

8/20/2018

Then and Now [Updated]

Filed under: General — JVW @ 3:17 pm



[guest post by JVW]

Harvey Weinstein victim, actress Rose McGowan, last fall:

Rose McGowan November

Yesterday’s big news story regarding actress Asia Argento, another victim of Harvey Weinstein:

Asia Argento

Ms. McGowan’s response earlier today to the allegations against Ms. Argento:

Rose McGowan August

One is tempted to mutter “unbelievable,” but in today’s age of intersectionality coupled with the lunacy and moral sewer of Hollywood mores it is sadly all too believable.

UPDATE: I should mention that Ms. McGowan also had a Tweet earlier today (prior to her “None of us know the truth. . .” tweet) where she seems to distance herself somewhat from Ms. Argento:

Rose McGowan August 2

The claim “I got to know Asia. . .” is kind of slippery. An Instagram post by Ms. Argento suggests that the two of them have been acquainted since at least 2003, though it could be true that Ms. McGown considered them to be merely acquaintances up until their shared fame due to the Weinstein ordeal.

– JVW

73 Responses to “Then and Now [Updated]”

  1. On the other hand, except for the “believe survivors” part of the tweet, Ms. McGowan has mostly taken to imploring us to “believe women.” Maybe she doesn’t think that believing young men against better-known and more influential women is all that important.

    JVW (37f1d8)

  2. Murderer of parents asks for clemency due to being an orphan.
    Rapist says “I am a victim, too!”

    felipe (023cc9)

  3. I made a point of making this post short and very direct, so let me be very clear about one aspect of this:

    Just because Asia Argento might have behaved horribly (and illegally, as the boy was under the age of consent in California) towards James Bennett doesn’t mean that she herself wasn’t raped by Harvey Weinstein. It’s quite easy to accept that both are true. And just because Rose McGowan has demonstrated a certain level of hypocrisy in asking us to reserve judgement on Ms. Argento doesn’t mean that Ms. McGowan herself wasn’t also raped by Harvey Weinstein. We can still believe that Harvey Weinstein is a worm of a man, while acknowledging that neither Ms. Argento nor Ms. McGowan has acquitted herself admirably in this whole mess.

    JVW (37f1d8)

  4. I remember when Hillary quite stupidly said that we should “believe survivors”, and then someone asked if she should believe Juanita Broaddrick. It was fun watching her try to parse and lawyer and BS her way out of that one.

    Paul Montagu (5b48d1)

  5. UPDATE: I should mention that Ms. McGowan also had a Tweet earlier today (prior to her “None of us know the truth. . .” tweet) where she seems to distance herself somewhat from Ms. Argento.

    “I got to know Asia Argento ten months ago. Our commonality is the shared pain of being assaulted by Harvey Weinstein. My heart is broken. I will continue my work on behalf of victims everywhere.”
    @rosemcgown — 2:46 AM – 20 Aug 2018

    The claim “I got to know Asia. . .” is kind of slippery. An Instagram post by Ms. Argento suggests that the two of them have been acquainted since at least 2003, though it could be true that Ms. McGown considered them to be merely acquaintances up until their shared fame due to the Weinstein ordeal.

    JVW (37f1d8)

  6. If I’m reading the numbers correctly, the second tweet is nearly as popular as the first. I wonder how much overlap there is between the first group and the second group – I suspect #ROSEARMY doesn’t suffer much from cognitive dissonance. Or, you know, what you said in the first post – it’s really just “Believe Women”.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  7. JVW, this is such an awful topic; thank you for writing about it carefully and thoughtfully.

    The problem is how the #MeToo folks define issues. I view rape and sexual assault in general as crimes, that should ALWAYS involve the police. I’m here to tell you that that is NOT how these issues are defined on campus.

    Oh, my aching head.

    The other thing that worries me is the concept that women are powerless. I think that everyone woman should be armed, but that’s me. Tasering Weinstein in the jewels would have taken care of some issues. I certainly encourage every woman in my laboratory to take self defense courses. I know what it is like to be bullied and afraid; I insisted my sons take karate. Both of them have black belts now, and have never had any trouble at all.

    But that’s all physical intimidation and responses to it. Psychological is a tougher nut to crack (so to speak). And it can run both ways, as with Ms. Argento’s situation.

    I just wish that people could be decent.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  8. Meh. People have been screwing each other in Hollywood since the Titanic went down.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. The noncelebrity lefties I see via Twitter seem much less forgiving of Argento
    This is one of them
    https://mobile.twitter.com/LadyLiberation_/status/1031688216825536513

    kishnevi (a722fb)

  10. The problem is how the #MeToo folks define issues. I view rape and sexual assault in general as crimes, that should ALWAYS involve the police. I’m here to tell you that that is NOT how these issues are defined on campus.

    I remember hearing an old saw that went something like “the people who are most directly impacted by a particular issue should not be the ones who adjudicate it.” Or something similar, suggesting that those who have a personal stake with respect to some controversial topic should yield way to someone more neutral and dispassionate. I think that really comes into play with the campus sexual assault warriors and the #MeToo advocates. (I also think that should apply to street gangs, immigration issues, business regulation, etc.)

    JVW (42615e)

  11. The problem is how the #MeToo folks define issues. I view rape and sexual assault in general as crimes, that should ALWAYS involve the police. I’m here to tell you that that is NOT how these issues are defined on campus.
    But the police can screw things up, with worse consequences.
    A younger cousin of mine was engaged to a student at Harvard Dental. He was accused (by a girl he had dated before my cousin) of rape. He claimed it was consensual sex. He was convicted and spent nearly a year in prison before an appeals court ruled he should have been acquitted. He got out, resumed his last year of study, and eventually set up practice in Maryland. But long before then my cousin (pretty sure family pressure was involved) had broken off the engagement and married someone else. All this because his old girlfriend apparently lied to the police and the police in a classic he said she said situation.

    kishnevi (a722fb)

  12. If it was a sign of solidarity. It were one thing, but it seems to lend it to settling scires.

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  13. Yep, kish, I didn’t mention it in the post but I was pleased to see that most of Twitter seems to reject the idea that Asia Argento’s sins can be explained away by invoking her own victimhood.

    JVW (42615e)

  14. I never heard of Rose McGowan before the Weinstein thing came up and I never heard of Asia Argento until today.

    Charlie Davis (92fc73)

  15. She was the Russian spy in xxx, and McGowan was in charmed and some forgettable films with Robert Rodriguez (noe he didn’t forget her)

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  16. Sigh! Where were the Asia Argentos when I was seventeen?

    nk (dbc370)

  17. All of hoolyweed should join an orgyanization

    mg (9e54f8)

  18. AS for Ms. McGowan’s “putting your careers and wallets before what was right”, I note that she took a $100,000 from Weinstein for the alleged rape when she was 23 and didn’t “look for justice” until twenty years later when it looked like she no longer had any hope of any kind of a career in Hollywood. That’s twenty years, during which she let Weinstein run around loose while still hoping to be the next Dame Judy Dench.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. When she associated with Marilyn Manson I started doubting her sanity.

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  20. Hpllyweed and Catholic Priests are disgusting

    mg (9e54f8)

  21. Just because Asia Argento might have behaved horribly (and illegally, as the boy was under the age of consent in California) towards James Bennett doesn’t mean that she herself wasn’t raped by Harvey Weinstein.

    No? It does not indicate that she is a hot and horny Hollywood floozy who’d sleep with anybody?

    nk (dbc370)

  22. nk – Are you insinuating cheap valor on a righteously virtuous victim?

    How dare you insist that there are horrific consequences when folks stand mute when evil walks among us. Victims have no obligations, except to try to heal themselves!

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  23. At the time of her “fame”, Argento was the type of actress that was more famous for being in various laddie mag’s (the late 90s waystop on the road to instagram) 100 Hottest Women lists than for any mass audience movie roles.

    urbanleftbehind (dbdb16)

  24. I have sympathy for the women who I see walking to the bus stop or the subway to go to work at seven in the morning and walking back home a six in the evening. They’ll still have to put food on the table and a roof over their heads the day after they’ve been victimized and every day after that and they can spend only so much time crusading. For someone like McGowan, shopping for the most revealing dress to wear on the red carpet (NSFW), I have a “Whatever”.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Meh, a good looking woman can do or say pretty much as she pleases, no matter how offensive or stupid, and all of us guys will still lick her feet, or worse.

    That’s why women are so stupid – who needs brains when you’ve got what they’ve got?

    Yeah, yeah, I know, misogynist, blah, blah, Neanderthal, evil male, argle bargle

    Call me when a woman is a chess champion or does math, engineering or physics at Einsteinian levels.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  26. Sigh! Where were the Asia Argentos when I was seventeen?

    That’s understandably been a fairly consistent reaction among those of us who still remember Sylvia Kristel movies from our youth. But I kind of got to thinking: suppose Asia Argento was sloppy drunk, and suppose her breath reeked of booze and cigarette smoke, and suppose she had a certain body odor that Europeans are often accused of having. All that, combined with the fact that Ms. Argento had played his mother in a movie ten years earlier, might have been enough to make it a less-than-euphoric experience.

    But it’s true that she was quite something in her B. Monkey/Scarlet Diva days.

    JVW (42615e)

  27. At the time of her “fame”, Argento was the type of actress that was more famous for being in various laddie mag’s (the late 90s waystop on the road to instagram) 100 Hottest Women lists than for any mass audience movie roles.

    She was also pretty well known because her dad was a nutso horror flick director and she would take off her clothes on screen at the drop of a hat. They were like a poor man’s version of Klaus and Nastassja Kinski, except for I believe Nastassja had the good sense not to work with her crazy dad.

    JVW (42615e)

  28. You might NOT WANT to unmoderate that last comment of mine, JVW. (In case you were considering it.) Even though I got the image from Google Images, the link might be more unsafe than merely NSFW. Let’s trust the filter.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. But I kind of got to thinking: suppose Asia Argento was sloppy drunk, and suppose her breath reeked of booze and cigarette smoke, and suppose she had a certain body odor that Europeans are often accused of having.

    You make it sound like that’s a bad thing.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. What filter were you using or not, I can extrapolate from her part in that vin diesel film.

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  31. You might NOT WANT to unmoderate that last comment of mine, JVW. (In case you were considering it.) Even though I got the image from Google Images, the link might be more unsafe than merely NSFW. Let’s trust the filter.

    Well now I have to go check!

    [intermission]

    Ah, yes. It won’t show up in preview, but I think I know the one to which you are referring. I recall the stir that dress caused, and I recall that Ms. McGown thereafter could never understand why she wasn’t taken seriously as a thespian, in the mode of Ethel Barrymore or Sarah Bernhardt.

    JVW (42615e)

  32. Ah message received, they should leave something to the imagination,

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  33. What I wanted to say in that comment is that I do have sympathy for victims who still have to get up every morning and go to work to put food on the table and a roof on their heads instead of on a crusade for justice, but I do not consider that Ms. McGowan was one of them for those twenty years that she was trying to promote herself and her career while Weinstein was victimizing other women.

    nk (dbc370)

  34. Can she suc chrome off a bumper?

    mg (9e54f8)

  35. a roof on *over* their heads

    nk (dbc370)

  36. Kishnevi #11: oh, I quite agree that police can bungle things badly. But if you look into how colleges and universities handle these issues, it is jaw dropping. There have been a number of men expelled from colleges over accusations, without recourse to an attorney (or having one present) nor even being able to cross examine their accusers.

    I’ll take the police and the legal system any day.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  37. Yes, kangaroo courts with extra pouches, how did we end up here, Sybil was less schizophrenic about discretion (they’ll call it repression) and license and debauchery.

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  38. What am I supposed to tell my sons as they go to college? Yeesh.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  39. 1. To be good boys and not go around breaking girls’ hearts.
    2. At the first hint of an accusation to “shut up and lawyer up”. To call you or their mother right away before they say anything or sign anything. You will hire a lawyer for them.

    nk (dbc370)

  40. What am I supposed to tell my sons as they go to college?

    This is me being old man cynical, but I would start with advice like this: “Son, if you ever get drunk and end up having sex with a similarly drunk young lady who is only a relatively casual acquaintance, make sure you get up earlier than she does the next morning and report her to the campus disciplinary panel before she can report you.”

    JVW (42615e)

  41. The vmas were certainly not #metoo affairs, yikes.

    Narciso (f9b4cc)

  42. We have discussed the cases in the news. They are both solid and decent young men.

    But they have grown up with their parents being academics who are both dumbfounded by the weird academic waters in which we swim.

    The common denominator in every case I have seen on three campuses has been too much alcohol. So I have urged my boys to never get romantic while either partner is drunk. That’s pretty tough on campuses these days, but as I say, we discuss the cases in the news.

    nk, JVW, thank you.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  43. With parents who have the foresight to have these discussions in advance, I’m sure your sons are going to be far better equipped than most to avoid the knuckleheaded behavior that was much more tolerated in our day.

    JVW (42615e)

  44. There have been a number of men expelled from colleges over accusations, without recourse to an attorney (or having one present) nor even being able to cross examine their accusers.

    If you violate the rules of an establishment (say by getting rowdy in a bar, begging for money in a restaurant, bothering other shoppers in a a store, etc) you have no right to cross-examine anyone or call an attorney if they decide to escort you off the premises. The principle is basically the same with harassment of another student in a university.

    By law, universities face huge liability risks if they do not act to remedy credible complaints of sexual or other harassment. It is not a criminal procedure, and the standard is *not* guilt or responsibility “beyond a reasonable doubt”. If the university determines that it is more likely than not that you violated its policies, they have a responsibility to act, and the law is on their side.

    Anyone who believes they have been treated unlawfully of course can and should sue after the fact.

    I’ll take the police and the legal system any day.

    Many forms of harassment do not rise to the level of criminality where involving the police or the criminal justice system would avail. There is no law against being a racist or sexist jerk, but universities (and businesses) must, by law, take remedial action when a racist or sexist jerk creates a hostile learning or working environment inside their establishment, or else face seven- or eight-figure civil liability for their failure to act.

    Dave (445e97)

  45. #34
    I lived in a metal Sears garden shed for a while about three hundred feet from a ratty old stable that had power, water, outdoor cold shower, a toilet and 6 Billion flies. The shed had a low ceiling and was pretty much a roof on my head. A rat ate through the insulation on my extension cords and I got shocked trying to open the door. It was cheap though.

    I’ve seen families in those things. A few years later I met my wife to be and in exchanging stories she told me how for a year her and her two very young kids were renting a camper that was propped up on blocks using one of those 5G pails with a lid for a crapper.

    If someone ever had tried to rape her, I believe at some point the police would have gotten a call for help from the rapist. Maybe an icepick might have gotten stuck in the back of his neck or some batteries in a sock might make contact with his skull or he might catch on fire. She spent some time in the foster care/ youth system in Mexico City and knows how to improvise. A reading of his future would be full of misfortune.

    Simon Jester. Thanks for prompting those women to learn how to defend themselves. Teach them to improvise quickly and decisively. Learn to sprint again.
    I did not know you were bullied. It can be a very lonely place and leaves a mark. Thanks for telling that part of your story.

    steveg (a9dcab)

  46. If you violate the rules of an establishment (say by getting rowdy in a bar, begging for money in a restaurant, bothering other shoppers in a a store, etc) you have no right to cross-examine anyone or call an attorney if they decide to escort you off the premises.

    But if based on unverifiable and likely biased reports of alleged wrongdoing you find yourself thrown out of a restaurant after you have paid for your meal but before you have finished eating it and the resultant publicity gets you preemptively banned from all of the other restaurants in that area, you are going to have one helluva lawsuit if you can demonstrate that the restaurant’s decision was based upon malice and patently unfair. That’s a bit closer to what we see in today’s college campus imbroglios.

    JVW (42615e)

  47. Ah juche Dave, comes through, ask the Eva fraternity how that eorjs, or this duke lacrosse players

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. and the resultant publicity gets you preemptively banned from all of the other restaurants in that area

    By law, a university could not and would not publicize either the existence or the outcome of a disciplinary process involving a student. I’ve never heard of anyone being “pre-emptively banned”. If there are also criminal proceedings, those might have the effects you describe.

    Obviously, it’s essential that universities handling these situations act responsibly, and being human, inevitably there will be cases where they err. As you say, the possibility of lawsuits creates a strong incentive not to screw up.

    University of California takes it seriously enough that every supervisory employee (including faculty) who might have to follow-up on a student’s or staff member’s report of harassment is required to take two hours of training every two years, and the single-minded focus of this training is following the law scrupulously to avoid exposing the university to civil or statutory liability.

    Dave (445e97)

  49. The Duke lacrosse scandal was precipitated by a corrupt/incompetent district attorney (who was disbarred as a result), not the university.

    Dave (445e97)

  50. Fascism by proxy. The government could not constitutionally, or practically, prevent people from thinking, saying or doing unpopular or politically incorrect things, so they coerce the educational institutions and workplaces to coerce the students and workers.

    nk (dbc370)

  51. Actually, “fascism by proxy” is a tautology. It’s just plain fascism. That’s how fascist totalitarianism differs from communist totalitarianism. It does not replace the institutions and businesses with committee-controlled collectives — it permits them to continue to exist under the control of the state as its proxies.

    nk (dbc370)

  52. OT…will our esteemed Narciso white-knight for this chick like he did for Palin and macho Grande?

    http://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/republican-house-candidate-says-abducted-aliens-communicates-extraterrestrials-wins-big-endorsement-003318150.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=ma

    urbanleftbehind (cc7e6a)

  53. No, she s crazy even for Doral, my support is for the Atkinson manque

    Narciso (47c179)

  54. She reminds me a lot of a former lady mayor of Cicero. The big hair and the maquillage, not the alien abduction.

    nk (dbc370)

  55. The Miami Herald is the greater joke, for the den they endorsed the head of their foundation. Conflict of interest.

    Narciso (47c179)

  56. But the alternative, was the gay guy who decided to take a vacation to Cuba, that was one bridge too far, he also wants to ban ice.

    Narciso (47c179)

  57. Ot, Candice Bergen really was attractive back in the day.

    Narciso (47c179)

  58. Her father went to the same high school I did.

    nk (dbc370)

  59. She and Trump missed each other by a summer break at Penn, she flunked out before he transferred in from Fordham.

    Wikipedia says Edgar went to Lake View, I thought you rocked Myrtle and Gold (and still put your High School on your resume).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  60. By law, a university could not and would not publicize either the existence or the outcome of a disciplinary process involving a student. I’ve never heard of anyone being “pre-emptively banned”.

    What I am pointing out by metaphor is that a person accused of sexual misconduct at a university is likely to quickly have his name whispered around campus, and there’s a good chance it would be spread around on social media or even be published in the school newspaper. And once a student has been required to withdraw from university X, do you really think that universities Y, Z, A, B, and C are going to be too keen on accepting him as a transfer student? You seem to hold a firm belief in the sanctity of student privacy, but I think in the real world it is provides far less protection than you might think.

    JVW (42615e)

  61. The Duke lacrosse scandal was precipitated by a corrupt/incompetent district attorney (who was disbarred as a result), not the university.

    Could that be because the accuser went to the police and not to the Title IX office? And Duke certainly did not support the accused students in any manner. They canceled the season, fired the coach, then stood mutely by as the faculty rushed to judgement and assembled the intellectual lynch mob.

    JVW (42615e)

  62. Check out John Podesta’s yearbook picture while you’re there. (CTRL F)

    nk (dbc370)

  63. How many cultures are being appropriated here?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlGIWq6U8AEi6Eb.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (e37049)

  64. That’s a high school….like Long Beach Poly, Erasmus Hall. Those Texas HS ones will be prolific in terms of alumni lists in the future because they are at peak enrollment now, arent as pockmarked by diversions to charter schools and do not appear to be as automatic whites-to-the-catholic leagues-or-the-academies like in other locals (cue a revisit to the SALT deduction reduction debate).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  65. Its kind of sad happy’s heroine continues to beclown…in many ways she is ripe Trump convert – Detroit born and raised, NY-influenced, eye-Talian, pushing 60….and yet was wanting to aim the crossbow at him last year

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  66. What I am pointing out by metaphor is that a person accused of sexual misconduct at a university is likely to quickly have his name whispered around campus, and there’s a good chance it would be spread around on social media or even be published in the school newspaper.

    Be that as it may, the university, if they follow the law, will have no comment, making the “story” nothing more than a rumor.

    And once a student has been required to withdraw from university X, do you really think that universities Y, Z, A, B, and C are going to be too keen on accepting him as a transfer student?

    I don’t think it would be determinative. University admissions are not in the business of doing background checks on applicants. I don’t think even felony rape convictions would stop you from being admitted, because the system is not set-up to look for them.

    You seem to hold a firm belief in the sanctity of student privacy, but I think in the real world it is provides far less protection than you might think.

    It’s not just my belief, there are strict laws about what information a school can release without a student’s permission, and violating those laws means another expensive day in court, so it is not done. A year ago, as part of my committee duties in the department, I needed to get access to student course enrollment and grade records (contrary to what you might expect, and what I expected, due to privacy laws, faculty cannot just go look up a student’s grades if they apply for a job, for instance). And that required – you guessed it – another two-hour training session where the recurring theme was again “follow the letter of the law or we get sued”.

    Of course, privacy protection can’t make something that happened (e.g. getting expelled) unhappen.

    Dave (445e97)

  67. Could that be because the accuser went to the police and not to the Title IX office?

    Sure, but Narciso’s trademark tactic of bringing up a sinister but irrelevant non-sequitur was exactly wrong in relation to Simon J’s earlier comment about “I’ll take the police and the legal system,” because this was a case where the legal system led the university astray, not the other way around.

    And Duke certainly did not support the accused students in any manner. They canceled the season, fired the coach, then stood mutely by as the faculty rushed to judgement and assembled the intellectual lynch mob.

    Canceling the season seems like a defensible PR decision when multiple players have been indicted for rape in an incident that – even after the rape allegations fell apart – hardly reflected well on the team or the school. Otherwise, by all accounts, Duke paid handsomely for its mistakes in a series of legal settlements.

    Dave (445e97)

  68. Privacy protection only goes so far… that’s “Dave” on the right…

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTR18G90fNEdnE6hrXsT2FUdJdkHL1g8rAUwrnr1gaoqcrKBO4

    Colonel Haiku (e37049)

  69. Calling Fred Z.

    PS: this and this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. How many cultures are being appropriated here?

    It depends upon whether or not Dipshit culture counts separately from the others.

    JVW (42615e)

  71. OMG, I didn’t see that moronic comment by FredZ. I feel bad for not responding to physics part of the insult…

    There were women doing physics at “Einsteinian levels” before Einstein!

    Marie Curie already had two Nobel Prizes before Einstein got his one. 🙂

    Curie was an experimentalist, but another woman – theorist Emmy Noether – discovered what is arguably the single most fundamental insight in the history of physics, Noether’s Theorem.

    If you’ve taken any physics, you know that “conservation laws” are one of the foundations – conservation of energy is the best known, but there is also conservation of linear momentum, angular momentum, electric charge, and many other quantities that are only apparent in subatomic reactions.

    It was Emmy Noether’s great insight, in 1915 (the same year Einstein developed General Relativity) that conservation laws are all associated with symmetries of the laws of physics. The law of Conservation of Energy, for example, can be derived from the assumption that the laws of physics are invariant over time. Conservation of linear momentum is equivalent to the statement that the laws of physics do not depend on position, and so on.

    Another example is Chien-Shiun Wu, who in 1956 designed and carried out what many physicists consider to be the most elegant and beautiful physics experiment of the 20th century (or ever…). She showed experimentally that the laws of physics are NOT invariant under mirror reflection – there are processes which occur whose mirror images never occur. This is called “parity violation”, and it was a wholly unexpected and seismic development, which removed long-standing misconceptions and led to immediate rapid progress in our understanding of the subatomic world.

    Of course, Curie, Noether and Wu were pioneers in a field dominated almost exclusively by men at the time, but today particle physics is approaching gender parity. The leader of my experiment when it co-discovered the Higgs boson was a woman, who is now director-general of the world’s premier particle physics lab (CERN) where the discovery took place.

    Dave (445e97)

  72. 70… I see something hanging there that I’d like to try on largemouth bass, JVW…

    Colonel Haiku (e37049)


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