Patterico's Pontifications

12/8/2017

Moore Accuser Says She Made Notes Underneath Roy Moore’s Signature In Her Yearbook (UPDATE: Allred Press Conference)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:09 pm

[guest post by Dana]

Hoo-boy. Beverly Young Nelson, who has alleged that Roy Moore assaulted her when she was 16, was interviewed on ABC’s Good Morning America today. During the interview she was asked about what she claims is Roy Moore’s signature in her high school yearbook:

“Beverly, he signed your yearbook?” ABC News reporter Tom Llamas asked.

“He did sign it,” Nelson replied.

“And you made some notes underneath?” Llamas followed up.

“Yes,” she answered.

Here is the yearbook signature:

Untitled

During a press conference last month with her attorney, Gloria Allred, Nelson said that when Moore spotted her yearbook on the counter at the restaurant where she was working and which he regularly frequented, he asked her if he could sign it. She agreed. The yearbook signature was presented by Nelson and Allred as connecting Moore to Nelson at the time of the alleged incident.

After that press conference, Moore’s attorney, Phillip Jarequi responded by asking, “Do you still hold that everything written in that yearbook was written by Judge Moore? Or was it written by somebody else? That’s not an allegation, it’s a question.” He followed up with a request that the yearbook be turned over to a neutral third-party for examination. Allred declined the request, and explained that she would be happy to hand it over to a neutral third-party on the condition that a Select Committee on Ethics open an investigation into Moore.

It’s surprising that someone with the extensive experience that Allred has in these matters, was not transparent about the distinction between the inscription and notes underneath it at the time of the press conference. Perhaps she didn’t know. But, if she didn’t know, then to what level of ineptitude on her part does that speak? And if Allred didn’t know about Nelson adding the notes, why wasn’t due diligence done by the attorney so that she did know? One last thing, I would like to know at what point Nelson added her notes.

It’s good to bear in mind that because Nelson has admitted that she added the notes, does not mean that her claims of assault by Moore are untrue. However, it does undermine her credibility. And unfortunately, it will have a ripple effect with other victims. One last thing, I would like to know at what point in time Nelson added her notes.

Allred is reportedly holding a news conference later today in which she will present evidence to support her client’s claims.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Allow me to quote myself from November 30:

As to the claim that the yearbook was “doctored”: there is handwriting under Moore’s signature denoting the place and time of the signature, which appears (to me, at least) to be different handwriting. Whether that means it has been “doctored” is a matter of interpretation, and depends largely on whether Nelson has actively claimed that all the handwriting was Moore’s, including the inscription about the location and date. (I don’t think she has, but I am open to correction by someone armed with proof.)

Emphasis added. I would add that even if Nelson did not explicitly claim this, it showed a lack of forthrightness on her part and on the part of Allred not to say this up front.

This leaves the issue of the ink. I have seen photos from the press conference that make it look like Moore’s last name and the date and location are in bluish ink while the rest is in black. Other photos seem to show all the writing in black. If the former is accurate then it is possible the last name was added as well as the date and location — and that (if true) could be properly called a forgery. But I am not clear on the ink issue.

Meanwhile John Nolte at Breitbart alleged an admission of a forgery, which was false — and Fox News made a similar claim that was since retracted. There is a lot of irresponsible commentary going around.

UPDATE: As expected, Gloria Allred held a press conference this afternoon and addressed the admission made by Beverly Young Nelson that she added notes underneath Roy Moore’s signature and inscription in her yearbook.

Allred said that she had the yearbook signature, not the notation “D.A. 12 -22-77 Olde Hickory House,” examined by forensic document expert Arthur Anthony. Allred did not say whether Anthony actually was a neutral third-party whose selection was agreed upon by Moore’s attorney Phillip Jarequi, or if he was just her go-to guy. With that, according to Allred:

Allred told reporters that she did not ask the expert, Arthur Anthony, to examine the printing because “Beverly indicates she added that to remind herself of who Roy Moore was and where and when Mr. Moore signed her yearbook.” Nelson acknowledged in an interview with ABC News that aired Friday that she had added notes to Moore’s inscription.

Allred provided reporters with the report provided by Anthony, with his assessment that the signature in the yearbook is Moore’s. Included in the sheaf of papers she presented were examples of Moore signature from when he was a deputy district attorney decades ago.

Further:

“She never said that he wrote that,” Allred told the press, referring to the date and location that appear at the end of the quote.

Allred continued to speak highly of Nelson throughout the presser.

“She’s just so brave. I can’t tell you, this kind of courage is something that should inspire so many people, especially women,” she said.

The lawyer also added that Nelson could actually be in physical danger.

“I think she’s in danger and she knows it,” she said. “There are people who feel very comfortable saying things like ‘she should be stoned in the town square’ and sending a photo of a casket. Who does that?”

“This is not easy against a well-funded, political and powerful guy in Alabama.”

Allred reiterated that she and Nelson would be happy to the Senate examine the yearbook.

451 Responses to “Moore Accuser Says She Made Notes Underneath Roy Moore’s Signature In Her Yearbook (UPDATE: Allred Press Conference)”

  1. Note: Nelson did not admit to forgery. I’m seeing some claim that she did.

    Dana (023079)

  2. Well, I’m not very invested or interested in this particular race or scandal, but clearly this accuser has poor credibility now, as Dana already said.

    Moore is a poor candidate for Senate. He’s a worse candidate because of his behavior towards young women, but he was a poor candidate regardless. Same as Al Franken. He was lousy in a lot of ways that have nothing to do with inappropriate groping jokes.

    I think America is divided into two categories of people: those who really see what I mean about the quality of a man or woman, and those who only see these issues as ammunition in the war between the political parties.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  3. It does undermine her credibility.

    Not necessarily at all.

    Autograph collectors can tell you that as a collectible ‘document’ – adding the notation by another hand may depreciate the value of the piece as a whole. But the personal notation of where/when it was signed as a point of reference for the owner does nothing to refute the validity of the signature and inscription itself- which can only be verifies by reviewing the actual specimen and not scanned/digitized imagery on the web. For instance, if memory serves, a way back in the day some of the original founding documents in the National Archives had notations added by unknown handwriting on the reverse as reference for archivists simply noting they were the original documents. Today that wouldn’t be done– but in the horse-and-buggy days of dusty libraries and stacks of old documents it would not be an issue at all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  4. Someone should pie Gloria at the podium

    mg (60b0f7)

  5. #2

    There you go again

    Apples/rutabegas. No comparison

    ===========

    As to the controversy, it only crystal meths it for Moore tweakers.

    Judge Roy Bean Moore is Plantation Cracker. Disprove that..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  6. DCSCA — I take no position on whether the annotation is *actually* indicative of ill intent or besmirches the legitimacy of the signature.

    But *politically*, this *destroys* her credibility, and quite likely takes the entire case against Moore down with it. Not with everyone, to be sure, but it does enough to undermine the clarity of her case that she’s very, very difficult to defend.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  7. After that press conference, Moore’s attorney, Phillip Jarequi responded by asking, “Do you still hold that everything written in that yearbook was written by Judge Moore? Or was it written by somebody else? That’s not an allegation, it’s a question.”

    Dana, did Allred answer this question?

    Lenny (5ea732)

  8. Ask her specifically what notes she added.

    Did she add the last name and DA as well?

    NJRob (06c9d1)

  9. Glori Allred knew, just like she knew about the spelling mistakes in the written version of Beverly Young Nelson’s prepared text that she distributed to the news media in a digital format.

    She knew that Roy Moore was NEVER the District Attorney of Etowah County. So she spelled it both “Elowah” and “Etiwah” County to defeat Nexis/Lexis searching. S+(She was aiming at the national press)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/us/politics/text-beverly-young-nelson-statement.html?_r=0

    Mr. Moore was an adult. He was much older than I was. I knew that he was the District attorney in Elowah County. I did not understand what that meant, but I knew that he was an important person and I always treated him with respect.

    AND

    At some point he gave up. He then looked at me and said, “you are a child. I am the District attorney of Etiwah County. If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you.” He finally allowed me to open the car door and I either fell out or he pushed me out. I was on the ground as he pulled out of the parking area behind the restaurant. The passenger door was still open as he burned rubber pulling away leaving me lying there on the cold concrete in the dark.

    Now any spelling checker would have shown that “Elowah” and “Etiwah” are both not words. So they would have been highlighted or the cursor put underneath it or something like that. Now a decent proofreader who was correcting that might have tried to look up the name of the county. In any case if she didn’t fact check, and read Elowah, she shouldn’t think Etiwah also was correct when she next saw the name of the county.

    This “mistake” was not made by the New York Times – it was also in the New York Post and something from CBS in Philadelphia and in a New York Post column by the National Review’s Rich Lowry.

    https://nypost.com/2017/11/13/new-roy-moore-accuser-alleges-he-sexually-assaulted-her-when-she-was-16/

    http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/11/13/fifth-woman-roy-moore-allegations/

    This was central to her story.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  10. I think that Nelson’s credibility has been undermined. However, I think it’s important we know what Allred knew about the added notes and when. It’s also important to then know if Allred knew about them before today and advised her client to keep silent about them. I’m not sure what reason she would have to do that, but if she did and Nelson trusted her as her attorney, then any undermining of credibility would rest at the feet of Allred.

    Dana (023079)

  11. apharel,

    It will destroy her credibility with Moore supporters, most certainly, as well as those sitting on the fence of indecision. I think a great number of them, who at heart, support Moore but won’t come out and say it, have been just hoping for some little discrepancy or question about any of the accusers make itself known so that they can point to that as a reason to vote for Moore. If there’s one little iota of question, then they are more than happy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Dana (023079)

  12. This is Lowry using the wrong spelling:

    https://nypost.com/2017/11/23/no-more-easy-escapes-for-predator-pervs/

    It was Moore, according to one of his accusers, saying “you are a child, I am the district attorney of Etiwah County. If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you.”

    Beverly Young Nelson
    quotes him as saying she is a child to emphasize the pedophile angle.

    She actually didn’t even claim that was the reason she didn’t tell anyone.

    The reasons she gave was that her boyfriend was violent and might get himself into trouble, and that the no-doubt powerful District Attorney of Etowah County might harm her family if her mother sought action.

    About her boyfriend:

    I did not say anything to him as to what had occurred as he had a violent temper and I was afraid that he would do something that would get him into trouble.

    About her mother and close family:

    I felt that if I told anyone Mr. Moore would do something to me or my family.

    And she and Gklora Allred, STATED AS FACT that in 1977 , Roy Moore was the District Attorney of Elowah Etiwah Etowah County, even though she claimed she had discussed this numerous times over the years with her younger sister (whom she =told she says, two years later) whenever Roy Moore’s name came up in the news. It somehow never became clear to her that he was not the District Attorney – he first ran for that office in 1986 and lost. And it was big issue in 1982 when he ran for circuit judge that he was not the District attorney. There were television commercials (although I’m not sure when that complaint about him acting without authority was made)

    ABC however has not yet discovered that Roy Moore was not the District Attorney of Etowah County!

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  13. The one book that every high school student in Alabama has read is To Kill a Mockingbird which is about a young female falsely accusing an adult male of sexual assault. Now they are beinf told to always believe the girl.

    jcurtis (7f335f)

  14. None of this makes any difference, because the new standard that has been adopted is “prove you didn’t do it”. We could find out it wasn’t even her year book, and that wouldn’t prove Moore didn’t do it.

    Ever since these sexual assault allegations were made, Moore has been treated by the media as though he has to prove he couldn’t have done it.

    Which fails a basic standard of fairness. What is asserted without evidence may be, in fairness, denied without evidence.

    It is ridiculous that because Nelson won’t say what the date was, Moore has to prove he was never alone with her for even one minute over a two-month period or else we’re all going to assume her allegation is true. It is ridiculous that because Nelson won’t say who else was working that day, who was doing the closing work so that she could go at ten pm, that there is no else to ask who can confirm Moore was even there.

    It is doubly ridiculous that Franken, for whom there are actually photographs of him with the victims he is alleged to have assaulted, is being treated as some kind of equivalent case. What Franken is accused of doing is less bad than what these two accuse more of doing, but there is a great deal more evidence and much stronger evidence that Franken at least had an opportunity to do it. For example, in the Tweeden photo there are actually potential witnesses that could in principle be followed up on: the soldiers seated by Tweeden and the photographer who took the photo.

    There is nothing of this sort for Moore’s accusers.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  15. What we need to know is if Beverly Young Nelson knew about the 4 women before the Washinghton Post published her story – she made a claim to the contrary.

    The thing is something could be true (like dating teenagers) but not good enough for the opposition so maybe they invented other stories.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  16. Frederick, like the rest splitting hairs of choice.

    Imagine Moore in 1930’s Alabama. Oh wait..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  17. @6. No, it does not.

    An owner’s annotation of date and locale when a signature is obtained does nothing to void the validity of Moore’s inscription and signature which can only be ascertained by examination of the document itself– not digitized/scanned imagery on the web.

    Been collecting historic autographs for half a century. Case in point: personally obtained the signature of astronaut Neil Armstrong on a document in 1969. On the reverse of the piece at the bottom, added in pencil, ‘obtained at a reception on Apollo 11 world tour, United States Embassy, London, October 14, 1969′ which can be cross referenced for verification and does nothing to diminish the validity of the signature itself– which would still need to be verified if put up for sale.

    Nelson did exactly the same thing– albeit more for her own reference rather than as a collector as noted in her presser. It’s not unusual. And Moore’s inscription and signature apparently has been verified by a documents expert– and of course, ink analysis can be done, too. Handwriting can vary over a lifetime as well. For instance, own three verified signatures of Charles Lindbergh from different periods in his life and all three have variances consistent w/the era they were made. A ‘slash-and-dash’ signature by President Trump on the bill of a red ball cap in a crowd is different from the bold, measured signature he places on Executive Orders, too, but can be validated– although valed differently.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. Yeah. I checked. No change.

    He’d be corn-holing his 13 year-old daughther of a slave because she ain’t human anyway.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  19. @10. No, Dana.

    Nelson’s credibility rests on the validity of Moore’s inscription and signature— which apparently has been verified by a documents expert and can be further validated by ink analysis. The signature verification by the expert is all that matters to document collectors– the reference annotation by the owner only diminishes the value of the piece itself if put up for sale. Had she written that in the back of the book for personal reference the value of the piece as a whole would rise but would not affect the value/validity of Moore’s inscription and signature itself.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. Engaging this issue as the fulcrum of Moore’s ignominy reflects the Zeitgeist and is being used to somehow make this gnome less a perversion of nature just because he may not be a kiddie daddy.

    Focus on the big picture.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  21. What is it about people making up s___ to forward a narrative?

    “A sailor who claimed someone scrawled racial slurs on his bed aboard an aircraft carrier —sparking a viral Facebook post in the process — staged the incident himself, the Navy said Friday……..

    ……Hecht declined to identify the sailor because he was not charged with a crime, but said the sailor had “received appropriate administrative actions and additional counseling and training.””

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2017/12/08/sailor-staged-racist-vandalism-navy-says/

    Just recently the same c__p went down at the Air Force Academy. It seems like more of these incidents are staged than genuine.

    harkin (9298f8)

  22. Waiting on Dan Rather to rule on this one.

    harkin (9298f8)

  23. “He’d be corn-holing his 13 year-old daughther of a slave because she ain’t human anyway.”

    Nobody projects like a progressive.

    harkin (9298f8)

  24. DCSCA,

    Perception is everything. And if it is perceived that Nelson did anything, no matter how innocuous and benign, that would add a small detail, that’s all the public will need to point their finger at her and call her a liar. While you and I some others would agree that the validity of Moore’s inscription and signature is what matters, unfortunately, to far too many, it really doesn’t.

    Dana (023079)

  25. There are multiple witnesses who have come forward, by name, since the first press conference and contradicted virtually every part of Young Nelson’s story. Her boyfriend from 1977, now a minister, says he does not remember her working as a waitress in 1977. Several restaurant employees and regular restaurant customers from 1977 say that they never saw Roy Moore in the restaurant, don’t remember Young Nelson ever working there, and that key aspects of her story are not even possible (e.g., there was no street exit from the restaurant’s back lot; it was impossible to park a car between the dumpsters; the restaurant’s wait staff did not interact with the counter customers, who were always served by either the bartender or the short-order cook; the restaurant was well-lit all the way around; the restaurant did not hire employees unless they were at least 16, etc.). Even if we overlook the fact that Young Nelson “forgot” to mention that she had written part of the yearbook inscription herself, and also “forgot” to mention that Roy Moore had been the judge in her divorce case, her story is simply not credible.

    Anonymous (aa6f43)

  26. Embellishing your story doesn’t make it stronger any more than embellishing your resume does.

    crazy (d99a88)

  27. The good news is Mississippi was worse.

    . In Alabama alone, 326 black people were killed during the 73 years span. Jefferson County was the site of 29 lynchings, the 9th highest rate for counties in the South. Dallas County in Alabama was the site of 25 lynchings, coming in at number 10.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  28. @25. Don’t see any ‘lie’ here at all.

    Nelson made her accusation public; Moore’s inscription/signature has been verified by a documents expert and the annotation ‘footnote’ as Nelson’s. Seems cut and dried.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. @26. simply not credible.

    Except Moore’s inscription and signature in her yearbook is.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. She likely didn’t even remember adding the annotation until it was pointed out by Moore’s team of conspiracy theorists and character assassins.

    Allred’s job was to catch stuff like this, though. Definitely an embarrassment for her.

    Dave (445e97)


  31. . In Alabama alone, 326 black people were killed during the 73 years span. Jefferson County was the site of 29 lynchings, the 9th highest rate for counties in the South. Dallas County in Alabama was the site of 25 lynchings, coming in at number 10.

    Those Democrats were having themselves a field day.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  32. DSCSA – again, i’m not arguing the merits of the case. I’m arguing that this *predictably* changes perception in a way that is seriously harmful to her case.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  33. ……Hecht declined to identify the sailor because he was not charged with a crime

    So defacing public/government property is not a crime now– let Graffito know:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLN6NpYzCN4

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. @30 nice fantasy but Gloria has not released the year book to impartial experts to have anything verified. Plus how do you explain the DA after his name which was his assistants initials which was written by his assistant on Nelsons divorce document that contained a copy of Moores sigature but which Nelson thought was DA part of Moore signature when she appears to have copied it over thinking it meant district attorny which he was not at the time.

    Sandra (b5ec24)

  35. @34. From my POV, it’s a win if he wins and a win if he loses anyway.

    But don’t see it. Moore’s made denials even knowing her and that it’s his inscription/signature; she made a public accusation and Moore’s inscription/signature in her yearbook has been verified by a documents expert. He’s fibbing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. It’s not that defacing/trashing property is not a crime, it’s that you have a much better chance of skipping away scott free if you’re doing it for the correct cause (see Occupy Movement).

    harkin (9298f8)

  37. Lucy ramirez to the white courtesy phone, seeing the turn around, it took about a decade fir .apes mirage to hit the screen.

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. . He’s fibbing.

    Now there’s a disqualifying feature.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  39. This the same gal who said Moore had driver-operated passenger side child locks on his 1970s car?

    jcurtis (7f335f)

  40. Ya’all do know the image ya’all posted has been altered?
    The original image clearly shows two different colors of ink.
    Someone trying to fool you or ya’all trying to fool us?

    kobeclan (04550a)

  41. And Christine O’Donnell is a witch. She’s got a mole. A broomstick. A black cat. Pointy hat. Everything.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  42. People are throwing around spin terms like ‘edited’ or ‘doctored’ but to a straight signature collectors the sample in question merely has an annotation by the owner for reference. It’s not unusual and it’s common to collectors but can affect the value of a piece as a whole if placed up for sale, but does nothing to diminish the value of the inscription/signature itself once verified. Content and condition can do that. Or, say, if she’d cut it out of the yearbook and framed it up.

    The age of the ink can be estimated through spectral analysis, chemical comparisons of the ink itself w/samples from the era, oxidation and so forth– even the paper can be checked– but it’s really in the weeds stuff and pricey, too. Most collectors verify a signature by observing the actual sample for crossovers, flow patterns, stop-start pressure points and comparing letter formation patterns– to known and verified signatures from corresponding time periods. It’s as much an art as a science.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. jcurtis; We need Marisa Tomei to identify the make and model.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  44. This the same gal who said Moore had driver-operated passenger side child locks on his 1970s car?

    I distinctly remember my grandparents’ cars (Oldsmobiles) had them, ca. 1978 or so (while I was in high school).

    Dave (445e97)

  45. Excellent stewardship of Other People’s Money.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politic.coms/justice-department-fetal-tissue-investigation/

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  46. Rear Admiral Ben burnee bro would be out of his depth in a puddle.

    mg (60b0f7)

  47. Is bona fide bigoted racism a bug or feature to Republicans?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  48. Is Science the Devil to Christian republicans?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. Why is it yall want to go to Heaven but don’t want to die?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  50. Why are Evangelicals pushing reform on non-profit political speech?

    Have they ever shut up?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  51. You get that concussion from bouncing your head off your glass ceiling, Rear Admiral?

    mg (60b0f7)

  52. These are questions for contemplation without a beer cocktail.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  53. Mg.

    If you had waited just a moment longer you might have saved yourself.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  54. Coffee for me.

    mg (60b0f7)

  55. Coffee should sharpen your wits. Try beer.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  56. Sometimes people should drink

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  57. your a seagull poster Rear Admiral Ben burnee bro: flies in, makes a lot of noise, sh##s all over everything, then leaves.

    mg (60b0f7)

  58. “CNN Botches Major ‘Bombshell’ Alleging Contacts Between Don Jr. And WikiLeaks”

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/08/cnn-botches-major-bombshell-alleging-contacts-between-don-jr-and-wikileaks/

    It’s like they’re trying so hard to invalidate an election that they just make stuff up.

    The msm is learning that it’s one thing to ignore the transgressions of the worst administration in over a century, but quite another to smear one just because of unreasoned hate.

    harkin (9298f8)

  59. I sincerely hope that I can bid on writing the epitaph for the Rumpublican Party.

    I’d pay a dollar.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  60. I could never pull off as much drinking as you get done in one night. It’s really impressive.

    mg (60b0f7)

  61. Since we don’t have access to the actual sample and you still want to play “signature sleuth” w/web samples, find yourself some first generation samplings of Moore’s writings beyond his signature from the same era. There are several words in the above inscription including two ‘key words’ in the sample- he has written in flow, the word ‘Christmas’ then ‘Christmas’ twice, one right after the other, w/minimal variances, w/a bonus ‘y’ in ‘Merry’ to pattern match w/his signature flow. That’s the sort of patterning you look at beyond a base signature itself. Again, it’s as much an art as a science.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Of course it’s really Roy Moore’s signature on the yearbook.
    They lifted a real one and printed it there fair and square.

    Ingot (e5bf64)

  63. Bullion, Ingot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. whattabout Chappiquiddick?

    But, but but Gorsuch..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  65. UPDATE added to post…Allred’s presser from this afternoon.

    Dana (023079)

  66. fish on

    mg (60b0f7)

  67. @66. Ben, if Moore had inscribed, “Why don’t we do it in the road! Merry Christmas, Roy Moore” his opponents would claim he was propositioning Nelson and his supporters would insist he was merely a Beatles White Album fan.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. Dear Prudence in future yearbooks in indelible ink

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  69. 61.I sincerely hope that I can bid on writing the epitaph for the Rumpublican Party.


    That’s what Democrats like you said back in 1865 but we freed your slaves and we’re still here.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  70. When has ailed gotten a story right, now not with Arnold because subsequent events were consensual, eel Er. It that was more Andrew’s doing the Whitman matter was a nasty bit of pool, she did get can to step down, but how true wee that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. Hoagie

    What happens if I change your name to Blowgie?

    Do you suddenly get different urges?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  72. 63…Again, it’s as much an art as a science.

    That’s just another way of saying it’s unreliable.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  73. Hoardings collusion is full of this conflation, he mentions carter page, but obscures the fact that the rosneft public offering went to mark riches firm glencore, he leaves akmetchins tie to fusion gps and furthermore that tie to veselnitskaya. It makes unwarranted assumptions about shaltar boltoi and a supposed tie to the fsb

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. Now that they’re caught that he never signed DA now they’re open to claiming maybe she might have done that.

    Hahahaha

    NJRob (06c9d1)

  75. Yep, Trump’s doin’ a Moore rally in Redneck Riviera, Florida– they’re playin’ Roy’s song, too–“Let’s Spend The Night Together”...

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. @74. Except it’s not.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. It’s ok if you lied
    It’s ok if you didn’t
    I’m not worried ’bout you forging things, honey
    As long as old Roy don’t win

    Baby, double down
    Go ahead and give it to him
    Double down,
    Say he raped you through the night
    Double down until Tuesday
    Double down, it’s alright

    nk (dbc370)

  78. Westerday was December 7th, the events of that day was predicted by this fellow:
    http://www.historynet.com/homer-lea-author-of-the-valor-of-ignorance.htm

    narciso (d1f714)

  79. The quality of forgery is not strained;
    It floweth like the shape of a nose or mouth from the hand of any third-rate sketch artist working on a street corner.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. If we left it to handwriting experts, 99% of the paintings you could find to buy would be by DaVinci, Renoir and Van Gogh.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. Like the Salvador mundi, that doesn’t look like a genuine davinci, and they paid nearlyhalf a billion dollars for.

    narciso (d1f714)

  82. I’d remind some of you that the message and signature in the yearbook is irrelevant on its own. Nothing nasty at all about it. It was the date and location that was supposed to put Moore at the scene of a supposed crime.

    They never would have put out the yearbook thing without those added lines because everyone would have said “well, what is this supposed to tell us?”.

    jcurtis (e9b0be)

  83. Exactly, jcurtis.

    nk (dbc370)

  84. #88. Irrelevant? You need reminded Moore has insisted he never knew Nelson, never met her, never ‘dated’ her and knew nothing of the restaurant; a regular ‘I know nothing’ Sgt. Schultz about it all- yet his signature- now verified by a documents expert- appears in her yearbook.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. @89. No, autograph and document collectors routinely run into pieces annotated by the owner. It’s quite common. So much so, Lindbergh often did it himself, annotating his own signatures w/the date and locale.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. Why would he, it want the only diner in gadsden, this thing WA conjured out of whole cloth.

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. When Sgt Schultz said “I know nothing”, was he referring about things that happened in 1905?

    harkin (bd8145)

  88. I sincerely hope that I can bid on writing the epitaph for the Rumpublican Party.

    I’d pay a dollar.
    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 3:19 pm

    No Worse Friends

    No Better Enemies

    I Take PayPal

    Pinandpuller (a29da4)

  89. ‘Id buy that for a dollar’ robocop 1987

    narciso (d1f714)

  90. 91, you are begging the question on all of that. He doesn’t have to remember a restaurant even if he ate there once, and that hasn’t even been established now that we know that part was forged. Nor does he have to remember a girl who asked him to sign her yearbook by looking at an old hag 40 years later.

    jcurtis (e9b0be)

  91. Dear Prudence in future yearbooks in indelible ink
    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 4:24 pm

    Blackbird (cover) Mertona feat Metronome

    Pinandpuller (a29da4)


  92. 92.@89. No, autograph and document collectors routinely run into pieces annotated by the owner. It’s quite common. So much so, Lindbergh often did it himself, annotating his own signatures w/the date and locale.

    I don’t think “collectors” are using the documents to ruin a mans reputation, career and livelihood like the blood sucking leftists here are doing. When one “annotates” documents to harm another it’s called bearing false witness.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  93. @ Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:40 pm, 12/8/2017 @ 12:55 pm

    I found this theory interesting. So I looked into it. What you say is true. In 1977, Roy Moore was not the District Attorney of Etowah County.

    He was, however, the Deputy District Attorney of Etowah County.

    Source #1 (Supreme Court of Alabama): http://judicial.alabama.gov/bios/rmoore.cfm

    Source #2 (Moore’s campaign website): https://www.roymoore.org/About-Judge-Moore/

    Not exactly the total falsehood you’re painting it as. An impartial observer might even think, as I do, that Mrs. Nelson has simply forgotten a small detail of the story over the years. As we all have…or at least, as I’ve been told I have, even with stories that are important to me. I might not remember at what church my first boss in my adult life was the pastor on Sundays, but I remember how terrible a boss he was.

    Then again, she could be lying through her teeth. I don’t pretend to know. I honestly haven’t paid much attention to this.

    But in any event, the fact that Mrs. Nelson referred to the one-time Deputy District Attorney of Etowah County as the District Attorney of Etowah County…”deputy” omitted…is not the slam-dunk piece of evidence that gets you to the “liar, liar, pants on fire” defense of Mr. Moore.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  94. There are lots of reasons to despise Moore but its pretty clear that this Gloria Allred hit job has blown up. Like so much of Gloria Allred’s incompetent stunts in the past.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  95. What happens if I change your name to Blowgie?

    Do you suddenly get different urges?
    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 4:37 pm

    What happens if I change your name to Father Ben Burn and your urges stay the same?

    Pinandpuller (a29da4)


  96. 95.I sincerely hope that I can bid on writing the epitaph for the Rumpublican Party.

    The last of your ilk who tried to write that epitaph are buried in graves all over the south. It seems you Democrats enjoy a bit of treasonous rebellion every so often. Bring it on pajama boy. Our team has 200 million guns and 4 trillion rounds of ammo. Your team can’t decide which rest room to use and they marry chandeliers.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  97. If we left it to handwriting experts, 99% of the paintings you could find to buy would be by DaVinci, Renoir and Van Gogh.
    nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2017 @ 6:10 pm

    Have you seen Tim’s Vermeer?

    Pinandpuller (a29da4)

  98. Fake News msm steps on the rake three times in one week:

    1) Flynn’s testimony – ABC News

    2) Deutsche Bank subpoena – Bloomberg & Reuters

    3) WikiLeaks emails – CNN

    You’d think they’d be more concerned about getting it right than getting Trump……..think again.

    Multiple posts about Roy Moore, Sam Seder and Al Franken but nothing about the media smear machine….go figger.

    harkin (bd8145)

  99. That was a seriously crazy story, winning the future,

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. So much so, Lindbergh often did it himself, annotating his own signatures w/the date and locale.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/8/2017 @ 6:38 pm

    You have any good Lindbergh diner dumpster stories you can regale us with?

    Pinandpuller (a29da4)

  101. Speaking of fake news , Brenda Massey has been convicted again.

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. And now it’s the turn of a judge “we like”. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/08/569559223/federal-appeals-judge-alex-kozinski-accused-of-sexual-harassment

    Make what you will of “we like”. Hint: That noise you hear is me rolling on the floor laughing.

    nk (dbc370)

  103. Want there a toxic litigant who was after him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  104. kozinkski’s replacement will not be a conservative.

    mg (60b0f7)

  105. NO MAN IS SAFE!
    #KeepThemInTheHarem

    nk (dbc370)

  106. Yes, he will be, mg, if Republicans have 50 Senators and Pence. Grassley has said there will be no blue slips for Court of Appeals judges.

    Oh, I forgot. Grassley does not meet some people’s high standards, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. 79 Except it’s not.

    Hitler diaries

    One page was taken from the diaries and examined by handwriting experts in Europe and the USA, which resulted in numerous experts agreeing that the handwriting did in fact belong to Hitler. …

    Hoffmann forgeries

    A master forger, Hofmann deceived a number of renowned document experts during his short career. Some of his forgeries were accepted by scholars for years, and an unknown number of them may still be in circulation. …

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  108. They even fooled Hugh Trevor roper, if memory serves. This does seem to be an exercise in ontology, how do we know what we think we know.

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. “Allred reiterated that she and Nelson would be happy to the Senate examine the yearbook.”

    If you are trying to say that the senate can look at the yearbook, what in the hell are they supposed to determine by looking at it? If she was popular or not?

    jcurtis (e9b0be)

  110. 100 Not exactly the total falsehood you’re painting it as. An impartial observer might even think, as I do, that Mrs. Nelson has simply forgotten a small detail of the story over the years. …

    People’s memories (especially of long ago events) are unreliable. People can also get not so small details wrong. They can for example conflate details from two different incidents confusing one man with another. This is a reason for statutes of limitations. Which have expired in this case.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  111. The annotation actually makes the story more plausible, and the possibility that Moore’s inscription is forged virtually nil.

    If you were going to straight-up forge the whole thing,

    1) Why would you bother with the annotation in distinctively different lettering style certain to raise questions? One part of the annotation is redundant (the date) and the other (the name of the restaurant) could have been easily added to the inscription in Moore’s own handwriting style. Completely leaving out the annotation from the “forged” inscription would not have detracted from the goal (establish a link to Moore) in the slightest.

    2) Given that you unwisely decided for whatever reason to forge both Moore’s inscription and an annotation in a different writing style, why not point out that the last two lines are your own writing at the original press conference?

    Introducing an obvious and unnecessary loose end, and then leaving unaddressed for weeks is more work, but completely pointless and counter-productive. Why do it?

    Dave (445e97)

  112. The way these d.c. pervs are dropping, nk, I’m not so sure any senators will be able to vote!

    mg (60b0f7)

  113. Introducing an obvious and unnecessary loose end, and then leaving unaddressed for weeks is more work, but completely pointless and counter-productive. Why do it?

    Who says lying honey boo boos have to be smart? In point of fact, they’re usually dumb. That’s why they’re such losers in the first place, and lucky not to be wearing orange jumpsuits.

    nk (dbc370)

  114. Let the backtracking begin…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. ConDave…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  116. “Have a bitchin’ Summer, girl! See ya in the Fall.”

    — Roy Moore

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. 105, the respective mea culpas will ve parceled out so that the responsible network will not have to break 4th wall and admit their malfeasance. Case in point was a Michael Flynn biopic airing on CCNN atb10pm eastern tonight.

    urbanleftbehind (b69296)

  118. The D.A. Is an issue because it exactly matched the signature on her divorce papers when Moore’s assistant signed or stamped them. They look exactly alike, as if they were traced.

    Nate Ogden (9fe5fa)

  119. Pousob pen, more like, the torygraph (remember who owns it, and it how it came to be) has a Carlos slim piece with a ATP byline re hope hicks. For those without the mirrored shades.

    narciso (d1f714)

  120. Jordan Schachtel
    @JordanSchachtel
    Updated partial list of partisans on Team Mueller:
    -An attorney for Ben Rhodes.
    -Attendee of Hillary’s election night party
    -Guy who cleared Hillary of wrongdoing+texted anti-Trump bias.
    -Man who helped Hillary cover up evidence by smashing her Blackberry to pieces
    Shut It Down?
    12:29 PM · Dec 8, 2017

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  121. 131, If you’re Trump, wouldn’t you want it to continue? They would say that he shut it down because he was worried that the blindfolded dart thrower would eventually hit the dart board. On the other hand, he could be honest and say that he’s shutting it down before his heretofore-thought impossible string of successes of proving the negative runs out. I mean eventually they could come up with a hoax that doesn’t fall apart so easily and they’ll say “oh, it must be true if it hasn’t been disproved yet!”. So you’re probably right, fire that morose uranium courier.

    jcurtis (e9b0be)

  122. beverly’s just kind of nasty what can you say

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  123. Except they are just as likely as conjure up an indictment out of whole cloth, its a Gordian knot, prisoners dilemma, btw what happened to William campbell?

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. Dana asked, only semi-rhetorically (but very perceptively):

    It’s surprising that someone with the extensive experience that Allred has in these matters, was not transparent about the distinction between the inscription and notes underneath it at the time of the press conference. Perhaps she didn’t know. But, if she didn’t know, then to what level of ineptitude on her part does that speak? And if Allred didn’t know about Nelson adding the notes, why wasn’t due diligence done by the attorney so that she did know?

    This was utter, inexcusable ineptitude, the kind of thing a first-year trial lawyer would do which would get her or him fired for cause. When one is an advocate, one’s duty includes preparing one’s client for hostile cross-examination and critical scrutiny, which certainly, always and without fail, should include spotting the obvious lines of attack upon the client’s credibility and consistency. If handled with even minimally adequate competency, this task should and must have included asking the client about every single word on the key piece of physical, documentary evidence. Whether the date and place notations were added contemporaneously to Moore’s signature or years later, those notations could and should have been explained by the client on her first occasion to discuss this document. Even if they’d been added 30 minutes before the press conference at which the yearbook was first presented — using nothing but years-later recollections by the victim and her mother, in a well-meant (but naive) attempt to “clarify” the importance and relevance of the physical evidence — that could have been explained.

    Instead, Allred let her client stumble into a credibility-destroying and woefully obvious trap. This isn’t a blown judgment call, not a mild departure from the normal standard of care exercised by similar professionals under the same or similar circumstances. This was utter, inexcusable malpractice — indeed, very close to gross negligence, and perhaps across that line as well.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  125. A honey boo boo walks into a bar, and the bartender asks: “What’s your pleasure, ma’am?” And she says: “Rob Roy.”

    nk (dbc370)

  126. @ James B. Shearer (951d11) — 12/8/2017 @ 7:40 pm

    People’s memories (especially of long ago events) are unreliable.

    Agreed.

    People can also get not so small details wrong.

    Agreed, though you will admit it’s harder.

    They can for example conflate details from two different incidents confusing one man with another.

    Mmm…maybe in some cases. Still…and not having had the experience of being assaulted…I’m pretty confident that I would remember the name of my attacker, assuming I knew it already. In any case, “People can, and some people have, misidentified their attackers” does not even suggest a likelihood that it happened in this one. So it’s not a good defense of Sammy’s argument, which is pretty terrible anyway.

    Again, I haven’t really followed this case. I’m not trying to suggest the innocence or guilt of anyone. The only reason I commented was to say that I investigated an interesting argument, and it turned out to be bad. Moreover, it’s bad in that way that suggests the person pushing it knew the case was weak.

    This is a reason for statutes of limitations. Which have expired in this case.

    I’m not advocating criminal charges against Mr. Moore.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  127. @ Beldar (fa637a) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:52 pm

    I second every word of this.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  128. Chicken and egg, you don’t allied put her up to it. Anyways this story should be Norwegian blue, the collision of various parts of the security services and law firms zebley is in that ve n diagram with democratic factotums like cooper by relation to the emoluments charade by marriage to Stern’s trial by ordeal. But they keep spouting g out dezinformatya like the piece re hope hicks.
    U.

    narciso (d1f714)

  129. But why do you think Allred was so negligent, Beldar? This is not some everyday situation involving anonymous individuals. Quite the opposite. It’s high stakes all around, and aside from an important election being impacted, one way or another, as well as Allred’s reputation being on the line, it’s hard to understand such extraordinary carelessness.

    Also, if I were Nelson, I think I would feel betrayed that my lawyer had not done her due diligence to protect me from attack in a situation in which I was already feeling like a sitting duck and taking the hits.

    Dana (023079)

  130. Poison, breeder turned over what he had scavenged of Conrad blacks properties after pat Fitzgerald went on his warpath. No the Barclays are depended on certain investors from Qatar (guess which firm actually represented them?)

    narciso (d1f714)

  131. What Allred did was misjudge the timing. The revelation came out four days earlier than she needed. Which is to say, I don’t believe she was negligent. I believe that she knew exactly what the score with the inscription was, but she did not want to dilute the impact of the accusation when it was first made.

    nk (dbc370)

  132. Isn’t allreds pattern, the pwitnrsses are given a script, Whitman, cosby, cain
    . trump, the local broadsheets asks no questions new York, new York times, actually goes further and buries any contrary evidence and gives the habitual offenders more awards (take Doug Jones please, if Roy Moore had actually sent the wrong man to prison. And let another carve a path of misery all the way to the Carolina, we would have never heard the end of it, likewise the times put o’reilly under the microscope and praised weinstein as the next thalberg for 13 years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. Keep in mind that it was Beverly Young Nelson who spilled the beans. All she had to do was sit tight and keep her own mouth shut while others endlessly debated her story. But she was not able to control herself.

    It’s very common. In any criminal conspiracy, women are the weak link. Their nerve breaks or they simply can’t keep their mouths shut.

    nk (dbc370)

  134. Tell me where I’m wrong and Clooney and Damon and Pitt, looked the other way for 20 years, miraculously allred had no knowledge of this, even though California, so it strikes how they always arrange the law and the media, to be in lockstep don’t give me Anthony wiener, he had burned all his lifelines

    narciso (d1f714)

  135. I guess allred thought llamas would bout a sympathizetic gauze on it, (his newsbuster clip file suggests so)

    narciso (d1f714)

  136. Autograph collectors can tell you that as a collectible ‘document’ – adding the notation by another hand may depreciate the value of the piece as a whole. But the personal notation of where/when it was signed as a point of reference for the owner does nothing to refute the validity of the signature and inscription itself…

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:25 pm

    That’s a joke, and the sad thing is that I know you’re serious. But your theory is so pathetic no fair-minded person can do anything but laugh at your insane attempt to salvage this allegation of Nelson’s. Now this liar needs to prove she has an autograph collection. And that Roy Moore’s signature was ever considered collectible. In any case we know she lied. At least by omission if Allred is to be believed which is a very big if but I’m not going to do a research project to see exactly what Nelson and her crooked lawyer claimed about the inscription. In fact it is reasonable to conclude she did so to pile on Moore and and manufacture the evidence to place him at an alleged crime scene.

    Patterico wrote:

    One last thing, I would like to know at what point in time Nelson added her notes.

    We recently learned that “D.A.” were the initials of Moore’s clerk, Delbra Adams, at the time of her divorce proceedings in the late nineties. She worked for Moore from 1987 when Moore was in private practice and then clerked for him when he was a circuit court judge until 2001 when he was elected to the state supreme court. Ms. Adams has confirmed that those are her initials. She added her initials when she stamped Moore’s signature on the document in Nelson’s divorce case to validate the authenticity of the document. So it’s reasonable to conclude that Nelson placed those initials there after her attorneys filed that motion to end her divorce proceedings. In fact, it’s fair to conclude that she recently added those “notes” not knowing those were the initials of Moore’s clerk, but to bolster her claim that Moore tried to rape her in the late seventies when he was an assistant DA for the county. That’s a big part of her claim; that she didn’t come forward earlier because she alleges Moore told her that no one would believe her because, according to Nelson, he was a DA and she was just a child.

    At the very least Nelson didn’t add those “notes” until at least ten years after she wants us to believe Moore signed her yearbook at the scene of what she wants us to believe was the site of an attempted rape. And that would depend on whether or not she ever had business with Roy Moore while he in private practice while Delbra Adams was working for him, or if Nelson ever had other business before Roy Moore before her 1999 divorce proceeding.

    So, how can anyone know if Moore had ever set foot in the Old Hickory Inn since it was Nelson who added the location and date? He says he didn’t even know the restaurant. Answer: you can’t know. Nelson just destroyed her credibility.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  137. Yeah, I was thinking that journolists may be even worse at omerta than women because it is their job to blab about everything and anything, and they’d give away their mothers for a scoop.

    nk (dbc370)

  138. Except for the truth, with rare exceptions like John lass they bury it in an open field of it doesn’t match the narrative. Take fixeloflake,

    narciso (4346c7)

  139. Nelson may hav done the interview without Allred’s knowledge. As such, she was just answering a question honestly, and didn’t realize the the impact of her statement, nor the opportunity she had just provided the Moore camp. i Think it speaks to a lack of intentional deceptiveness. She just honestly answered a question.

    Dana (023079)

  140. Dana asked (#138):

    But why do you think Allred was so negligent, Beldar?

    I don’t know her personally, and I don’t have a solid basis to make inferences. My guess would be a combination of sloth (not spending the time with the client necessary to spot and vaccinate against such problems pro-actively) and egotism (believing that she’s such hot stuff that she could do without adequate preparation). Plain old stupidity is also a candidate.

    This is Trial Lawyer 101 stuff. If you can’t properly authenticate your key written evidence — which process includes figuring out all the conceivable objections to that evidence, and anticipating them in a way that moots those objections, or that at least steals most of their sting — then you’ve got no business being a trial lawyer, and you’re a menace to your poor clients who expected and deserve much, much better.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  141. …This was utter, inexcusable ineptitude, the kind of thing a first-year trial lawyer would do which would get her or him fired for cause. When one is an advocate, one’s duty includes preparing one’s client for hostile cross-examination and critical scrutiny, which certainly, always and without fail, should include spotting the obvious lines of attack upon the client’s credibility and consistency. If handled with even minimally adequate competency, this task should and must have included asking the client about every single word on the key piece of physical, documentary evidence. Whether the date and place notations were added contemporaneously to Moore’s signature or years later, those notations could and should have been explained by the client on her first occasion to discuss this document…

    Beldar (fa637a) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:52 pm

    Beldar, since Allred expected to be able to try this case in the press and on social media, and worst before a Senate committed where the Democrats would be lobbing softballs and Republicans would be quivering like scared rabbits, afraid to ask any tough questions lest they be accused of failing to believe a “brave rape survivor,” I think it’s reasonable to conclude she didn’t need to prepare her client for hostile cross examination or any serious scrutiny.

    No doubt Allred was surprised that her client torpedoed her own credibility so readily in what amounted to a very sympathetic interview. But it was inexcusable ineptitude as you say, no doubt amounting to malpractice, and almost certainly crossing the line into unethical behavior. I say that because Allred is claiming that she only asked her friendly, helpful, tame handwriting expert to confirm Moore’s signature and nothing else about the inscription. Which tells me that she knew Nelson had written those “notes” and and didn’t want to get the answer she knew she would get if she commissioned him to confirm every single word in that inscription. As any competent, ethical attorney would have done.

    I suppose it’s too much to hope that Moore’s attorneys will seize on this file a complaint and get Allred disbarred but one can hope. If I never see that attention-seeking ambulance chaser (my brother-in-law is an attorney, and like you competent and ethical one) it couldn’t happen to soon. Allred is the type that gives the entire profession such a bad name.

    P.S. if you’ve seen my earlier comment then you know that Moore’s former administrative assistant/court clerk, Delbra Adams, has confirmed the initials “D.A.” that follows Moore’s signature are hers. And it doesn’t mean District Attorney as she initialed the document while she was clerking for Judge Moore in 1999. There’s a slim chance Ms. Adams might have initialed something else for a legal work while in private practice (1987-1992) or a case in circuit court before Nelson’s 1999 divorce. But that would raise other disturbing issues. If Nelson need legal work done by an attorney in private practice, why would she choose an attorney she would later want us to believe tried to rape her?

    The bottom line is that Nelson couldn’t have added to that inscription contemporaneously. It had to have been added years later. And I would say it was added years later, after Moore had already been accused by others in the WaPo and decided to see if she could jump on the gravy train.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  142. Dana,

    why are you bending over backwards to give this woman the benefit of the doubt and hold Moore in the worst possible light?

    NJRob (b00189)

  143. Nelson may hav done the interview without Allred’s knowledge. As such, she was just answering a question honestly, and didn’t realize the the impact of her statement, nor the opportunity she had just provided the Moore camp. i Think it speaks to a lack of intentional deceptiveness. She just honestly answered a question.

    Dana (023079) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:00 pm

    So, you’re saying that Allred is not only so incompetent (or malicious) that she didn’t even do a minimally adequate job of verifying every single word of that inscription (not even by asking her client, since we know Allred deliberately avoided having her handwriting expert do so) but she’s also such an incompetent that she didn’d sternly warn Nelson about never doing interviews without telling her first? That’s really telling.

    And, sorry Dana, this whole thing reeks of intentional deceptiveness. See, it reeked of intentional deceptiveness from the start. Because of two words; Gloria Allred.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  144. If we all spent half the time we do speculating about this nonsense on something worthwhile, who knows, maybe one of us would discover a cure for cancer. Just sayin’…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. @ Steve57: I saw your earlier comment, and I knew about the “DA” stuff, which isn’t new today, but was reported some time ago.

    I disagree completely with you that the client lied. My gut tells me very strongly that there is an innocent explanation and that the client’s only mistake was failing to interrupt her extremely famous and high-profile lawyer when she (the lawyer) started mis-describing the document and overstating Moore’s contributions to it.

    I’d bet you a steak dinner at the restaurant of your choice, in fact, that if I had a quarter hour to ask questions of both Nelson and Moore under oath and with a court reporter present, simply methodically going through every word on the document and all the circumstances, you’d end up agreeing with me.

    Expecting to “try the case in the press and on social media” is no-ways, no-how an excuse for extremely bad lawyering. If anything, the fact that you’re not guaranteed a captive audience — one whom a judge will compels to sit still and listen while you try to correct your errors on redirect examination after your client has just been eviscerated on cross examination (which was effectively what happened here) — is all the more reason to prepare fully and completely. Even today after this story broke, Allred’s lame rebuttal was to trot out a handwriting expert. What she should have been trying to do was to rehabilitate her client’s story, which I strongly suspect was very doable by even a moderately skilled trial lawyer.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  146. Conspicuously missing from anything Moore or his lawyers have ever said about this yearbook: “That’s not my signature.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  147. 151

    I don’t know her personally, and I don’t have a solid basis to make inferences. My guess would be a combination of sloth (not spending the time with the client necessary to spot and vaccinate against such problems pro-actively) and egotism (believing that she’s such hot stuff that she could do without adequate preparation). Plain old stupidity is also a candidate.

    People believe what they want to believe. If this was a woman coming in with an accusation against Doug Jones I expect Allred would have handled it differently.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  148. Beldar, I must respectfully disagree. As I said about Nelson, she lied if only by omission. It’s inexcusable that she didn’t correct Allred about the inscription and I can’t believe the subject never came up.

    At the very least:

    Allred: “Judge Roy Moore wrote this in your yearbook?”

    Nelson: “Yes, that’s correct.”

    Unfortunately you’ll never get Nelson and Moore under oath for that cross examination as it’s entirely within Allred’s interest to never let that happen. She doesn’t want to subject her client to that kind of scrutiny. Just as she clearly didn’t want to subject that inscription to any scrutiny. She knows what would happen.

    I would be open to the idea that Nelson didn’t attempt to manufacture evidence against Moore and then allowed her attorney to misrepresent the inscription if you can provide me with a possible plausible innocent explanation for Nelson to add Delbra Adams initials after Moore’s signature.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  149. 156 I disagree completely with you that the client lied. My gut tells me very strongly that there is an innocent explanation and that the client’s only mistake was failing to interrupt her extremely famous and high-profile lawyer when she (the lawyer) started mis-describing the document and overstating Moore’s contributions to it.

    According to the New York Times transcript of the original press conference it was Nelson who read a prepared statement and held up the year book. Still mostly Allred’s fault of course.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  150. 137 Mmm…maybe in some cases. Still…and not having had the experience of being assaulted…I’m pretty confident that I would remember the name of my attacker, assuming I knew it already. …

    So if you were a young woman and 2 guys made passes at you after offering to drive you home and you fended them both off (and didn’t deem the incidents serious enough to go to the law) there is no chance you would get the events mixed up 40 years later?

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  151. 159 I would be open to the idea that Nelson didn’t attempt to manufacture evidence against Moore and then allowed her attorney to misrepresent the inscription if you can provide me with a possible plausible innocent explanation for Nelson to add Delbra Adams initials after Moore’s signature.

    The innocent explanation is that Nelson added the DA to identify Moore and it is coincidence that her writing resembles Delbra Abams’s writing.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  152. People believe what they want to believe.

    James B. Shearer (951d11) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:44 pm

    No. It’s just that if somebody wants me to believe something they need to provide me with a basis to believe it.

    For instance, such as the current cynical, transparent lie from the media and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) that they didn’t take the rape/sexual harassment/assault charges as seriously as they should have because times were different, they were so young and inexperienced, blah blah blah.

    Those allegations came out during Clinton’s second term. It wasn’t until 1998 when Bill Clinton wagged his finger at the press and said “I didn’t have sex with that woman.” You know; back when he was guilty of committing perjury and suborning perjury in an attempt to derail Paula Jones’ sexual harassment lawsuit. So now they pledge to do penance by trying to impeach Donald Trump and Clarence Thomas if they don’t resign. How transparently, cynically political is that?

    But I digress.

    I know the press/Democrats are lying because I was in the Navy in 1991 when the Tailhook Association held its convention in Las Vegas that summer. Funny, how times were the same as they are now, and they weren’t so young then, that they couldn’t take it seriously. They were sharks smelling blood in the water, and the press/Democrats made it publicly known that they wanted to (as Rep. Pat Schroeder put it) “break the culture” of Naval Aviation. And they’ve succeeded. When they could use a very weak sexual misconduct case (not a single officer who demanded court martial instead of being bullied into accepting non-judicial punishment was convicted) to destroy Naval Aviation they took the charges as serious as a heart attack. A few years later when it was time to defend their boyfriend in the WH they refused to take it seriously at all.

    The obvious difference, of course, is that we couldn’t provide feminazis with any political favors. Bill Clinton could.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/04/23/reporter_who_offered_to_give_bill_clinton_oral_sex_calls_clinton_cash_author_right-wing_hatchet_man.html

    As far as Nina Burleigh was concerned oral sex is just the ultimate thank you and only the least she can do for a powerful Democrat simply for keeping abortion legal. And if Trump doesn’t get reelected and a Democrat returns to the WH the left will drop the puritanical charade and the sexual revolution free-for-all will be back on.

    The bottom line is I have zero basis for believing a word that comes out of either Beverly Young Nelson’s or Gloria Allred’s mouth. Not that I ever had a basis for believing a word out of Allred’s mouth. I didn’t know Nelson from a hot rock two months ago. But a) she hired Allred and b) she admitted to modifying Moore’s inscription in her yearbook. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s weird that a man in his 30s would sign a 16 y.o. girl’s yearbook. But it’s not a crime. But since Nelson herself wrote in what she wants us to believe the place and date she wants us to believe he wrote that inscription and she and her lawyer wanted to lead us to believe that Moore wrote the entire thing, I have zero reason to believe it happened under the circumstances the two want us to believe it happened.

    Nelson has destroyed what’s left of her entire story and it didn’t even make much sense from her first press conference. For instance, if Moore was the regular customer she described, coming in every day because (as she describes it) he was obsessed with her, Moore couldn’t possibly have had time to cruise the food court trying to pick up high school girls as other sources would have us believe.

    We have statutes of limitations for a reason. And the statute of limitations ran out on charging Moore with any crime or even bringing a civil case against Moore for what Nelson accuses him of doing ran out over thirty five years ago. It’s now impossible to determine who is telling the truth.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  153. The large color photograph shows the original (rather strange) message is written in black ink and signed simply “Roy”
    The blue ink and change in handwriting style begins with “Moore” not with “D.A.” as she claims. She’s lying again. She forged his last name. Anybody named Roy could have signed it.

    And even if Moore did sign it. So f’k’n what.

    Large color photograph.

    bour3 (713a95)

  154. @115- Comparing the value and validity of Roy Moore’s short scrawl in a yearbook to the multi-million dollar attempt to fake Hitler’s diaries– an attempt which failed- is quite a stretch given the time and expenses involved– and the millions to be made– especially in an era before more modern analysis techniques existed. It took years to source period paper, inks and writing instruments not to mention writing patterns and so forth as well as craft ‘coherent’ content and narrative– and it was still outted. Whereas anybody trying to work up a fake Moore piece had all of 40 days to prepare Moore’s inscription w/a signature and find someone to make a plausible pitch.

    It’s extremely unlikely. And if you were going to fake it– you certainly wouldn’t annotate it w/a locale and date— the yearbook alone would be enough for that. If Nelson was the sole accuser you might have a stronger argument to question the authenticity but w/others coming forth and samples of Moore’s writings obtainable, it just doesn’t wash. The art is the piece; the science is in authentication. Unless you believe there’s money to be made faking one dollar bills.
    ________

    The annotation by the owner is essentially irrelevant. It’s a common practice and may only affect the value of the overall piece should it be appraised for sale. All that matters is the content and condition of the inscription and the signature on the whole item to an autograph/document collector examining it. [That’s why you should never remove an inscription/autograph from a signed book or clip a signature from a letter. Keep the artifact intact.] In this sample, there’s a smooth, flowing example of Moore’s handwriting with two ‘key words’ – “Christmas”– written one after the other presenting the same word in succession in a natural flow and crossover w/minimal variance in lettering and spacing along w/t signature. It’s a good sample to work with and any collector/ examiner would insist on reviewing the original.

    An experienced autograph/document collector/examiner can obtain original writing samples by Moore along w/signatures from the same time period and do a comparison w/the yearbook original for patterns, rollover, stop-starts, looping, spacing– even phrasing and punctuation. A spectral analysis of the ink, any oxidation, discoloration– even the paper itself– and any ink seepage into same over time, can be done as well. But that takes time and can be costly.

    And apparently Allred has already had the inscription and signature verified by a doc examiner per her presser and Nelson has stated the annotation was hers. But if the goal is to take pot shots at Allred’s lawyering skills, her grandstanding techniques and the politics of it all, have at it– will be in line behind you.

    But from an autograph collector/document examiner POV, be this an inscription and signature by Alabama’s Roy Moore or Bear Bryant, it’s a relatively easy one to run to ground for a good, experienced autograph/document collector/examiner to verify or disqualify.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. @147. Except it’s not ‘theory.’ You’re trying to inject political spin into a matter of basic authentication of an inscription w/a signature. Forget it reads ‘Roy Moore’– it could just as easily read ‘Bear Bryant.’

    From a purely political POV, it’s a win if he wins and a win if he loses. So ain’t got no dog in this hunt, Steve.

    It’s simply a matter of running the piece to ground for authenticity. An annotation by an owner for personal reference is common to autograph and document collectors/examiners; people just do that w/keepsakes. [‘Signed for Bobby by Mickey Mantle at Yankee Stadium, June 18, 1961′- sort of thing.] Been at it for half a century– ideally, you want a clean sig., preferably in pencil, not ink, on acid-free paper but an item or inscription associated w/t signer is valued as well. As inscriptions and signatures go, the Moore piece would be an easy one to verify sans all the political spinning around it but it’s necessary to examine the original samples.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  156. “There is a lot of irresponsible commentary going around.”

    …and it all started with the media pushing this unverified “accusers” allegations against Moore, about Moore, as if they were TRUE.

    So how come the “accuser” gets more the benefit of the doubt then the “accused”?

    what a joke. This is a hit job from day one. And THEY (meaning those in the DNC & RINOs who do not want Moore anywhere near the US Senate because he doesn’t support their policies or morality) twant to throw made up dirt at Moore all the way up until election night.

    oh and now this at https://bigleaguepolitics.com/exclusive-former-jeb-bush-staffer-planted-anti-roy-moore-coverage-washington-post/

    “Former Jeb Bush Staffer Planted Anti-Roy Moore Coverage in Washington Post”

    has any one politician ever been scrutinized with such bigotry and biased against them? where was every body when Bill Clinton (who the Bush brothers called “a brother from another mother”), Hillary, Conyers and Franken, to name a FEW, ran and no one investigated them ad nauseum to see if they were fit for office?

    pharisees are worried their temple is in danger and they are scrambling as if the devil is coming to town. but al it is is someone who doesn’t buy into their corruption and will not tow their marxist liberal line.

    have a good day.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  157. Steve57, there werent very many food courts in malls circa 1977, most dining options were dispersed throughout the mall usually in corridor 2 front corners locations.

    urbanleftbehind (b69296)

  158. There is a certain lack of self awareness on jebs part, when was a developer coming up in south Florida, he dealt with some disreputable characters, hmo scanners, certain fellows in the import trade, then some bad dealings re s&l pipe salesman in Nigeria, of course he was not that long ago on the board of Lehman bros, the posterchild of the financial crisis

    narciso (d1f714)

  159. I second every Moore apologist

    Admiral Ben Damocles (b3d5ab)

  160. has any one politician ever been scrutinized with such bigotry and biased against them? where was every body when Bill Clinton (who the Bush brothers called “a brother from another mother”), Hillary, Conyers and Franken, to name a FEW, ran and no one investigated them ad nauseum to see if they were fit for office?

    You’ve never had the temerity to support John Wilkes Booth for federal office.

    Admiral Ben Damocles (b3d5ab)

  161. He proposed banning Muslims from serving in elected office, called for the criminalization of homosexuality, and defied court rulings and declared his own biblical jurisprudence the sole valid legal authority.

    And if that revolt was going to begin anywhere, it would likely be in Utah. The state’s Mormon culture recoiled from Donald Trump’s libidinous boasting, erratic behavior, and displays of extravagant consumption.
    Between the 2012 and 2016 elections, Utah’s Republican presidential margin underwent an astonishing 28 percent collapse.

    Orrin Hatch, who has represented Utah in the Senate since 1977, greeted Moore’s candidacy in this year’s election with skepticism. (“I have trouble with” Moore’s comments on gays and Muslims, he said in October.) Once evidence surfaced of Moore’s alleged predation of teenage girls, Hatch pulled the rip cord. “If the deeply disturbing allegations in the Washington Post are true, Senator Hatch believes that Judge Moore should step aside immediately,” his spokesman declared.

    But even in Utah, there were forces at work to make Hatch reconsider. He was facing a potential primary challenge from a Trumpian candidate who had met with party insurrectionist Steve Bannon and Citizens United president David Bossie. In November, Hatch lavished praise on the president, calling him “one of the best I’ve served under.” Trump rewarded Hatch by endorsing him. Hatch then defended Trump’s endorsement of Moore, arguing that he “needs every Republican he can get so he can put his agenda through.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/the-mueller-investigation-is-in-mortal-danger.html

    Admiral Ben Bunson Burner (b3d5ab)

  162. Patterico, isn’t there a rule about multiple handles? I wouldn’t care, and I would not ordinarily snitch him out, except that Ben burn is using them to avoid my blocking script.

    nk (dbc370)

  163. Whining

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  164. Tell Dana about multiple handles you crybaby.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  165. Aw, go suck the Tootsie Rolls in your cat’s litter box, you dippy little twerp.

    nk (dbc370)

  166. Is nk female? a man wouldn’t cry in public.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  167. Like a para demon, you have to squash it, much like justice league has done to the franchise.

    narciso (d1f714)

  168. Then Eli Mosley of the campus group Identity Evropa, who calls Jews “oven-dodging…kikes,” took Enoch one further: “We need to be explicitly anti-capitalist. There’s no other way forward for our movement.” As 60 mostly young, male racists gathered around him, Mosley, whose real name is Elliott Kline, confidently predicted, “Twenty eighteen is going to be the year of leftists joining the white-nationalist movement!”

    https://www.thenation.com/article/the-racist-right-looks-left/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  169. Patterico: nk is being nasty to me. Please get the noodle whip for reward.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  170. That’s not surprising to those who know where the fascist and drexlers gang came from:

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/30/donald-trump-hezbollah-latin-america-215987

    narciso (d1f714)

  171. Never mind, Patterico. It took me lot less time to add Ben burn’s new handles to the blocking script that it took for the previous comments.

    nk (dbc370)

  172. That’s really good news nk.

    winning

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  173. @ James B. Shearer (951d11) — 12/9/2017 @ 12:01 am

    So if you were a young woman and 2 guys made passes at you after offering to drive you home and you fended them both off (and didn’t deem the incidents serious enough to go to the law) there is no chance you would get the events mixed up 40 years later?

    You read my comments, I assume. So you know the answer to the question you asked is “Yes, there is a chance.” Let me follow that up, though, by saying that I think it would be highly unlikely I would get the major details wrong. Especially since, in the scenario I was actually proposing, they would be assaults, not “passes.”

    My point has been, and continues to be, that I find it highly unlikely that you can unravel Mrs. Nelson’s story against Mr. Moore by saying “She got this one minor detail wrong; therefore, the whole story is fabricated.” That’s just a misapplication of falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus. We both agree that human memory is fallible, but you seem to be trying to treat “fallible” and “untrustworthy” as synonyms. They are not. Now, if it can be proved that she lied about one detail, then your falsum argument would go through — for me, anyway.

    Either Mrs. Nelson is basically telling the truth, or she is lying. Those are our two options. If she is basically telling the truth, then Roy Moore does not deserve (and cannot have) criminal charges brought against him after forty years — but arguably, he still doesn’t deserve to be a United States Senator. If she is lying, then he may or may not deserve to be a United States Senator for other reasons — but this whole “scandal” would be a nothingburger. (Actually, it would be the full Nothingburger Meal, Whopper-sized.) The determination of which option is the true one, however, must be made on other grounds than the fact that Roy Moore was only the Deputy District Attorney of Etowah County in 1977.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  174. She was introduced with the yearbook, that was the lead pipe cinch, but like the killian memo it dkrs t stand up to scrutiny.

    narciso (d1f714)

  175. At this point, Nelson continues to firmly stick to her story. So, how does this benefit her given that the polls are favoring Moore, she is being disparaged at every turn, her life has been turned upside down, and everything that she said she feared would happen if she came forward, is happening. What’s the upside here?

    Further, ask yourselves why someone who has allegedly forged Moore’s signature (as many are claiming), would then add notes below it in her own handwriting instead of continuing to make it consistently appear as if Moore had written it? If she had a forger’s skill set, why not make the “story” consistent with signature, inscription and notes? That would be more believable, right? As it stands, not only did she add the notes, she admitted on national television that the additional notes were hers. If you watch the interview, there was no hesitation in answering, no hemming and hawing, no bluster, just a straightforward answer.
    There was no conspicuous effort made to cover that up. Also, given that she is perhaps not what one would consider terribly worldly or sophisticated or savvy, is it possible that she didn’t know that it was vital to make a distinction between the signature and her additional notation? Again, to know that it was, was the responsibility of her lawyer to inform her and make sure every stone had been unturned.

    Nelson just doesn’t strike me as clever or cunning enough to create such subterfuge. If she has been, then it speaks even more to the immense incompetence of Allred. And any woman who considers approaching her with their complaint of sexual misconduct should seriously reconsider.

    Dana (023079)

  176. So does Mary mapes, I do t think Kate blanchett, did her justice, it will. Probably be a lifetime movie

    narciso (d1f714)

  177. she are an deceitful cow

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  178. Even under the light most favorable to the honey boo boo (and, boy, does she need dim lighting), the yearbook is more prop than evidence. The artist’s sketch was a nice touch, too. Allred had no interest in making a lawyer’s case with solid evidence. She went for dramatic impact, playing to the TV cameras and not an impartial jury. And it worked for people who didn’t want to realize that “It’s only a movie. It’s only a movie.”

    nk (dbc370)

  179. MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski referred to an accuser of Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) as a “Playboy model who goes on Hannity [and] voted for Trump” during a Friday morning discussion on Franken’s resignation announcement.

    In Franken’s Thursday announcement of his intention to resign from the Senate, he said that some of the eight accusations of sexual misconduct made against him were false and that he remembered other encounters differently

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/363919-brzezinski-questions-franken-accuser-playboy-model-who-goes-on-hannity-voted

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  180. Although you have prolly already found it, nk, there is an easy way to block a troll with many multiples of handles. The more handles, the more pitiful a cry for attention.

    felipe (023cc9)

  181. I’d pay a dollar to hear the real deal.

    http://m.tmz.com/#!article/2017/06/01/marla-maples-donald-trump-kathy-griffin-beheading-photo/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  182. Flippy! Howz it hanging?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  183. We needed more hypocrites today.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  184. Seagull posting Rear Admiral ben burnee bro is going for an early knockout off of his glass ceiling.

    mg (60b0f7)

  185. Also, NJ Robb has asked me why I am bending over backwards to “give this woman the benefit of the doubt and hold Moore in the worst possible light?” In response, I would ask him, why he and others are bending over backwards to give Moore the benefit of the doubt and hold Nelson (and the other women who have come forward to accuse Moore) in the worst possible light?

    I ask, because yesterday, after Nelson’s appearance on GMA, these were the headlines from “conservative” sites about the interview:

    FOX News:

    “BREAKING NEWS: Roy Moore accuser admits she forged part of yearbook inscription attributed to Alabama senate candidate.”

    FOX News later removed the “forgery” reference.

    Breitbart:

    Bombshell: Roy Moore Accuser Beverly Nelson Admits She Forged Yearbook

    Breitbart still hasn’t correct the headline!

    Dana (023079)

  186. How come righteous dudes like Floppy haven’t been raptured yet.

    Now, I don’t know about you, but when I heard about Jerusalem — where the King of Kings [applause] where our soon coming King is coming back to Jerusalem, it is because President Trump declared Jerusalem to be capital of Israel,” Sen. Broxson predicted.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/florida-rally-cheers-when-republican-predicts-trumps-jerusalem-embassy-decision-may-usher-in-armageddon/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  187. 16 shopping days to Saturnalia

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  188. @151

    I don’t know her personally, and I don’t have a solid basis to make inferences. My guess would be a combination of sloth (not spending the time with the client necessary to spot and vaccinate against such problems pro-actively) and egotism (believing that she’s such hot stuff that she could do without adequate preparation). Plain old stupidity is also a candidate.

    Playing devil’s advocate here, Allred’s work here is certainly being done pro bono, so she is literally doing this as a favor to Nelson. So in that sense, any assistance she provides for free is better than nothing (and Nelson is under no obligation to accept it).

    Promotional considerations (i.e. advertising) had to have been involved Allred’s decision to represent Nelson in a high-profile story like this, so it was in Allred’s interests to do a competent job and avoid the appearance of sloppiness and unprofessionalism.

    Nevertheless, vetting information and documents, interviewing the client and others, preparing statements, all require time and human resources that were not billable in this case, but not free either. In almost any kind of work, you can always spend a little more time and/or money to make the result a little better. When providing a service or product for pay, this can be calibrated to what the client/customer is willing to pay for; when you are doing something as charity, it’s becomes instead a question of how much the donor is willing to offer.

    Dave (445e97)

  189. Also, NJ Robb has asked me why I am bending over backwards to “give this woman the benefit of the doubt and hold Moore in the worst possible light?” In response, I would ask him, why he and others are bending over backwards to give Moore the benefit of the doubt and hold Nelson (and the other women who have come forward to accuse Moore) in the worst possible light?

    I ask, because yesterday, after Nelson’s appearance on GMA, these were the headlines from “conservative” sites about the interview:

    FOX News:

    “BREAKING NEWS: Roy Moore accuser admits she forged part of yearbook inscription attributed to Alabama senate candidate.”

    FOX News later removed the “forgery” reference.

    Breitbart:

    Bombshell: Roy Moore Accuser Beverly Nelson Admits She Forged Yearbook
    Breitbart still hasn’t correct the headline!

    Dana (023079) — 12/9/2017 @ 8:41 am

    Simple. Because she portrayed the entire thing as Moore’s writings, was proven false and now claims otherwise. She still hasn’t confirmed whether or not she added the last name, added the DA or added anything else to the writing.

    That’s just left for people to believe otherwise.

    Her story is vastly different from the other ladies’ stories. It gets many of the facts regarding the location of the alleged assault wrong. She’s been called a liar by her ex-boyfriend, the workers at the location at the time of the alleged assault, and others.

    Finally, it doesn’t fit with what we know of Roy Moore’s public life for the past 25 years.

    NJRob (b00189)

  190. Back away from teh crackpipe Rear Admiral Ben Bunsburning! You’ve reached gorilla-level toxicity.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  191. Haiku ka choob got Left Behind too. God is smart.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  192. I would ask him, why he and others are bending over backwards to give Moore the benefit of the doubt and hold Nelson (and the other women who have come forward to accuse Moore) in the worst possible light?

    Crystal Mangum
    “Jackie”
    Mattress Girl
    Mayella Ewell 😉

    These kind of accusations are easy to make and difficult to disprove and the burden is rightfully on the accuser to withstand the strictest scrutiny.

    nk (dbc370)

  193. God is merciful. You will need it, Rear Admiral!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  194. http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/06/unsolved_murders_of_alabama.html

    Moore got smart as pedos do. They murder victims so they can’t testify.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  195. Why are you still here, Haiku? When will you get nervous?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  196. Playing devil’s advocate here, Allred’s work here is certainly being done pro bono, so she is literally doing this as a favor to Nelson. So in that sense, any assistance she provides for free is better than nothing (and Nelson is under no obligation to accept it).

    No and no. Two nos. 1) What makes you think Allred is doing this pro bono? 2) A lawyer representing a client pro bono MUST provide the same quality of representation as he would for a $1,000/hr client.

    nk (dbc370)

  197. nk, FWIW I don’t use the blocking script but I would assume inserting a machine ID such as b3d5ab works without having to keep inserting multiple aliases.

    crazy (d99a88)

  198. Yes the Murdoch sons, reminded the newsreaders what side they were on,

    narciso (d1f714)


  199. Nelson just doesn’t strike me as clever or cunning enough to create such subterfuge.


    She’s not , Dana. She’s being choreographed by Democrat operatives just like Anita Hill and many other useful idiots over the years. The Democrat party in collusion with the Deep State is conspiring to overthrow our elected government. It’s a civil war. If you believe a person would wait 38 years to accuse a man just before an election is “coincidence” you’re part of the problem. And if you would convict a person on foggy memories from four decades ago without pictures, videos or at least a couple eye witnesses then you must just want to believe her. Democrats can run interference for an accused sex abuser and his complicit wife for 25 years, they can call a priapic woman-slaughterer the lion of the Senate, but one woman makes an iffy claim from four decades ago and the world stops.

    BTW, forty years ago if a guy touched a girl inappropriately she smacked the crap out of him. Andrew Klavan said: “If women have forgotten the fine art of slapping a man in the face, there’s not a whole hell of a lot society can do for them. You keep silent for forty years and then ruin a man’s career with an unprovable allegation — and that makes you a hero? Not to me.” I agree.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  200. Remember Janet napoltanis catalog of ignominy began as hills lawyer then us atty give, dos and head if the California university system

    narciso (d1f714)

  201. I think Klavan is on to something there.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  202. Thank you, felipe and crazy.

    nk (dbc370)

  203. Lol. I really am a existential threat to your political fantasies..lol.

    You thought AIDS was transmitted via toilet seats too!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  204. At the time, the midterms were 16 months away, but Washington had only just begun to understand the extent of Russia’s alleged involvement in the 2016 election, including the widespread use of troll accounts to disseminate inflammatory messages, and efforts to probe US voter registration databases in 21 states. The consensus among cybersecurity experts was that the US was ill-prepared to defend against another concerted effort by Moscow to influence US elections.

    The Russians were also feeling insecure. Putin, who has long feared US-backed regime change efforts, faces reelection in March. And although he is universally favored to win another six-year term, the former KGB officer is eager to avoid the type of mass protests that followed Russia’s disputed legislative elections in 2011, a defiant uprising he continues to attribute to US interference.

    “We said ‘thank you very much but now is not the time for this’”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/johnhudson/no-deal-how-secret-talks-with-russia-to-prevent-election?utm_term=.rylQQNG8W#.drallyN1D

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  205. No just a boo flinging chimp, one of the ironies in collusion is Harding actually mentions the trust in passing.

    narciso (d1f714)

  206. Has a troll ever lasted this long that brings absolutely nothing to the conversation and constantly tries to derail threads?

    Burnie bro owes his life to the script blocker.

    NJRob (b00189)

  207. @219 Has a troll ever lasted this long that brings absolutely nothing to the conversation and constantly tries to derail threads?
    You must skip happyfeet’s comments.

    Tillman (a95660)

  208. Dana wrote:

    ” As it stands, not only did she add the notes, she admitted on national television that the additional notes were hers. If you watch the interview, there was no hesitation in answering, no hemming and hawing, no bluster, just a straightforward answer.”

    She and her attorney both said that Moore wrote the whole thing at the first presser. We now know she lied because Moore writing the date and place would have strongly implied that he was at the supposed scene of crime and at the the supposed time at which said crime happened. Nelson only fessed up to it after most people with a functioning pair of eyes saw that evidently the handwritings didn’t match and her story was discredited as a result.

    Dana wrote:

    “At this point, Nelson continues to firmly stick to her story. So, how does this benefit her given that the polls are favoring Moore, she is being disparaged at every turn, her life has been turned upside down, and everything that she said she feared would happen if she came forward, is happening. What’s the upside here?”

    She is being disparaged by Moore and Trump supporters while being lionised by liberals and establishment Republicans.One of those two groups hold the lever of institutional mainstream media capable of shaping public opinion. Anyway, it is not up to doubters to psychoanalyse the accuser for motive. Doubters only have to assess evidence and in this particular case, the only particular piece of evidence is ridiculously compromised. Let me now explain why this is so:

    (1) From the very first day that the year book was presented, it was immediately noticed by astute observers that there is not only a difference in handwriting but also in ink used. The block “Moore D.A. 12 -22-77 Olde Hickory House” seem to be written in fresher ink with a blue tinge. This observation was immediately laughed out of the building by talking heads. Yet the image, from CNN nonetheless, cannot be framed as a forgery. Said talking head are now not laughing that much as 90% of the block has been confirmed to have been written in different ink by the horse’s mouth itself.

    (2) The signature from the year book is evidently not Moore’s signature since he signs as “Roy S Moore”, the flourish in the “y” of Roy being in fact an “S”. This can be verified from Nelson’s own “expert” report where a contemporaneous example of Moore’s signature still shows the “S” that is lacking in the yearbook (Nelson’s “expert” nevertheless concludes that both signatures are consistent despite the glaring difference. Really.)

    (3) Nelson’s “expert” also note that the signature from the yearbook tally with that of the scrapbook of another woman (Talk about coordination). Guess what’s missing from the scrapbook? “MOORE DA”. This strongly implies that “MOORE DA” was not originally part of the yearbook inscription, which would tally with the fact that the authors of the scrapbook and of the year book seem to be one person and that Moore actually didn’t write “Roy” without a flourish when signing a document. This seems to strongly indicate that “MOORE DA” was added by Nelson herself, a fact that Patterico himself seems to acknowledge on twitter. But this also seems to implies that Moore actually wrote the rest of the yearbook inscription with the exception of the “Moore D.A. 12 -22-77 Olde Hickory House” block. Does that bolster Nelson’s accusation? Not at all. In fact it immediately torpedoes it and proves forgery and intent to frame.

    (4) As have been reported for the umpteen time, Moore was never a district attorney. Hence the “D.A” discrepancy. Gloria Allred has tried to fudge around this problem by implying feebly that maybe Nelson wrote it to remind herself of who Roy Moore is (someone she has previously described as being famous around town). But there is of course a much simpler explanation: it so happens that by an extraordinary coincidence Nelson possesses a court document for the dismissal of a divorce case that bears Moore signature from his time as judge. (Nelson has elsewhere claimed that she never interacted again with Mr. Moore, yet another very convenient lie). Said signature in the divorce dismissal notice read “Roy S Moore/ D.A”, the D.A being the name of Moore’s assistant Delbra Adams. This at once explains the discrepancy between the signature found in the yearbook and that from contemporaneous court records. The “Roy” in the yearbook was already there, just like the solitary “Roy” in the scrapbook, and the “Moore D.A” block was lifted wholesale from Nelson’s own court document. This would make the “Moore D.A” not a contemporaneous addition but rather an incredibly stupid forgery that immediately proves that Nelson was trying to frame Mr. Moore. You may think that no one can be that stupid but yet Nelson went in front of cameras brandishing a piece of evidence with a signature written with two different inks and with a blatant difference in handwritting and all the right thinking people fell for it hook, line and sinker.

    Mark Landers (ad2df9)

  209. Ace of Spades:

    “So, after the dust settles from the sexual harassment apocalypse and the piles of bodies have burned down to embers, it looks like the last man standing will probably be Mike Pence. You all remember Mike. He’s the guy all the progressive cognoscenti jeered at when he mentioned a while back that he never meets with any woman alone, and certainly not without his wife being present.”

    Heh, heh.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/trump%20impeached.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  210. Rear Admiral Ben burnee bro is a seagull poster: flies in, makes a lot of noise, sh##s all over everything, then leaves.

    mg (60b0f7)

  211. You’ve repeated that gem, mg, several times.

    whattabout Chappiquiddick?

    But Gorsuch..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  212. nk, since you are incapable of using this here fancy internet very well, I dug this up for your question on the other thread.

    Congress reeling from sexual harassment deluge
    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/364025-congress-reeling-from-sexual-harassment-deluge

    And yet you would have us suspect that news is not getting under P-Grabber’s skin? Just a little? Can we get a little honesty over here? It’s not coming from nk, that’s for sure.

    Tillman (a95660)

  213. I think she’s the First to admit she was a mongoloid. Anyone else want to repent and be saved?

    The women who accused GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore of sexually abusing her at age 16 expressed her disgust Friday with President Trump’s support of the accused pedophile.

    Beverly Young Nelson, 55, actually voted for Trump last year despite his own host of sexual abuse allegations — and now she regrets her decision.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/roy-moore-accuser-beverly-nelson-regrets-trump-vote-article-1.3686359

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  214. Stick it, Tillman.

    nk (dbc370)

  215. Tillman

    Mis only beef with Trump is his style

    He’s fine with the substance. They fear the overdue death of their Party.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  216. NKs only beef..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  217. Rev, that would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I had been conditioned to a Pence-bolton presidency, if anyone remembers pjmedia’s Disney-phil’s contributor (some guy from Indiana who settled in LA).

    urbanleftbehind (b69296)

  218. Nk and Happy might be different colored socks on the same persons hands.

    urbanleftbehind (b69296)

  219. They do converse..sock puppets?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  220. They keep choosing poorly:
    dailycaller.com/2017/12/09/egypts-christian-leader-sides-with-palestine-refuses-to-meet-with-pence

    narciso (d1f714)

  221. We will not receive him in the Palestinian territories,” Jibril Rajoub said on Thursday, a day after US President Donald Trump formally recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and said he would start the process of moving its embassy there.

    The embassy move breaks with decades of US policy and risks igniting a “powder keg” in the Middle East region, analysts say.

    Pence is expected to visit Israel later this month, with a stop in the Palestinian city of Bethlehem.

    A White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Al Jazeera on Friday that Pence still “intends” to meet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, noting it “would be counterproductive” for the Palestinian leader to cancel the meeting.

    Separately, Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian chief negotiator, told Al Jazeera on Friday that Palestinians will not talk to the US until Trump has reversed his decision.

    He said the Palestinian leadership was considering all options in response to Trump’s announcement.

    Trump’s embassy move has inflamed the Israel-Palestine conflict, in which the status of Jerusalem is a key issue.

    Pence, the Constant Gardener.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  222. Ben, the Republican party – the version I often disagreed with, but at least had some respect for – is already dead. Of course it can be resurrected at any time, but I don’t see it coming anytime soon and I don’t think the party will ever be quite the same after all this, if it can survive.

    Tillman (a95660)

  223. It’s dead but we have Necrophiliacs with deadly preferences Tillman.

    They’ll arrange for Taxidermy without a Coroner.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  224. We know that this is all about Trump. That the Party of Perversion a/k/a the Democrats want it very much to be about Trump. That their contrived and chimerical “moral high ground” is just so much contrived and chimerical horsesh!t. Hypocritical, opportunistic, ingrate Kristen Gillibrand let the pussy out of the bag weeks ago when she turned on the Clintons, the people who put her where she is. It doesn’t work with me. I’m just enjoying the spectacle of Democrats slitting their own wrists in the hopes that they will “shame” the Republicans into doing the same. And if any Republicans do go along … well, good riddance.

    nk (dbc370)

  225. They can’t be shamed. Like I said when Trump is gone it will be bizness as usual for necrophiliacs.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  226. Keep fookin that corpse.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  227. The Democrat party that used to exist is now the GoPe as you can see from JFK’s old policies versus the GoPe’s current ones.

    The current Democrat party has been fully absorbed by the old Soviets and now they are trying to destroy the USA from within.

    NJRob (b00189)

  228. Spending OPM! HUZZAAAHHH!

    There are at least three congressional investigations touching on the completely fraudulent Uranium One “scandal.” JeffBo reportedly is “considering” appointing a second special counsel to look into everything congressional Republicans have gleaned from binge-watching Hannity. But it doesn’t stop there. Inevitably, we have come around to the completely truthless—and comically inept—fable of how Planned Parenthood sold off aborted fetuses for parts. From The Daily Beast:

    The head of Justice’s office of legislative affairs has sent a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee asking for documents from its investigation of Planned Parenthood’s fetal tissue practices. The Daily Beast reviewed the letter, which says the requested

    documents are “for investigative use.” The head of Justice’s office of legislative affairs has sent a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee asking for documents from its investigation of Planned Parenthood’s fetal tissue practices. The Daily Beast reviewed the letter, which says the requested documents are “for investigative use.”

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14393745/sessions-planned-parenthood/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  229. my boyfriend was almost there for to come get me so i hopped into this guy’s rape mobile (the guy i told you was always making me uncomfortable inside the diner)

    – the thought processes of beverly nelson

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  230. How much was spent on…

    BENGHAAAAZZZZEEEEE!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  231. How much did YELLOWCAKERS

    Cost us?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  232. Well, if Esquire says it must be so. After all, Esquire is known as the definitive go-to mag for in depth nonpartisan political reporting on the same cultural and honesty level as CNN.

    In Soviet Russia Pravda was the official propaganda paper of the communist party. In America there is no “one official paper” as the honor of fronting leftist Democrat propaganda is shared by hundreds of newspapers, magazines, TV and radio “news” stations with a healthy part saved for prime time comedies and dramas as well as late night so called comedy shows. In fact there is such a volume of leftist tripe being constantly aired and promoted as legitimate information, facts and entertainment that the very fact there are any conservatives left is a tribute to some people’s ability to seek the truth regardless of the circumstances.

    If it weren’t for disinformation Esquire wouldn’t have any information. Carry on comrade.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  233. Has the cost from Iraq reached $10 trillion yet?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  234. 1/3 of what has been spent by Mueller’s minions, zebley, weisman and prancer

    narciso (d1f714)

  235. Do you ever have facts to share hoagie?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  236. 180

    Either Mrs. Nelson is basically telling the truth, or she is lying. Those are our two options. …

    There is a third option she is trying to tell the truth but is remembering things incorrectly. Consider this NYT story about a police shooting. Two witness accounts got major things wrong. And this was in the immediate aftermath not 40 years later.

    There is no evidence that the mistaken accounts of either person were malicious or intentionally false. Studies of memories of traumatic events consistently show how common it is for errors to creep into confidently recalled accounts, according to cognitive psychologists.

    “It’s pretty normal,” said Deryn Strange, an associate psychology professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “That’s the hard thing to get our heads around. It’s frightening how easy it is to build in a false memory.”

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  237. Why is it Pentagon spending is never a wasted subject for republicans?

    The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is $163 billion over budget, seven years behind schedule, and will cost taxpayers about twice as much as sending a man to the moon. But according to Pentagon officials, the Lockheed Martin-built plane is light years ahead of its competition from other countries, and there’s no turning back on the project now.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  238. Pierce is still the one who made the whitewash of the lion of the senate, re Mary Jo,

    narciso (d1f714)

  239. rom spending $150 million on private villas for a handful of personnel in Afghanistan to blowing $2.7 billion on an air surveillance balloon that doesn’t work, the latest revelations of waste at the Pentagon are just the most recent howlers in a long line of similar stories stretching back at least five decades. Other hot-off-the-presses examples would include the Army’s purchase of helicopter gears worth $500 each for $8,000 each and the accumulation of billions of dollars’ worth of weapons components that will never be used. And then there’s the one that would have to be everyone’s favorite Pentagon waste story: the spending of $50,000 to investigate the bomb-detecting capabilities of African elephants. (And here’s a shock: They didn’t turn out to be that great!) The elephant research, of course, represents chump change in the Pentagon’s wastage sweepstakes and in the context of its $600-billion-plus budget, but think of it as indicative of the absurd lengths the Department of Defense will go to when what’s at stake is throwing away taxpayer dollars.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/only-the-pentagon-could-spend-640-on-a-toilet-seat/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  240. @201 All due respect Dave, but when an attorney takes on a client, he has an ethical responsibility to zealously represent the client’s interests. Payment charged and paid; payment charged yet not paid; or pro bono. No matter. It’s a fiduciary responsibility.

    Allred apparently did a lousy job. A horrific job, actually. Any reasonably competent attorney – and I *do* mean any such attorney – would have reviewed the yearbook generally to insure that it seemed to be what it seemed to be, and would have personally inspected the inscription which was very much at the heart of the client’s case. Which was *obviously* at or close to the heart of the case.

    Two caveats. (1) If there were extraordinary circumstances which prevented this from occurring in a timely manner, well . . . shorcuts are made in every profession under extraordinary circumstances. There is, however, no indication – whatsoever – that any such circumstances were at play here. (2) In lieu of performing this task personally, the lead attorney might, MIGHT, be justified in parcelling this out to an associate or a paralegal. Given the centrality of the yearbook to the account, however, I cannot imagine myself or any attorney that I’ve worked for or with not performing this task personally.

    Having reviewed the inscription, any reasonably competent attorney would have inquired of his client, with the client right there with the attorney and the yearbook, to get her verbal account of the event, and to clear up any reasonably evident ambiguities or questions. Allred clearly did not do that, or did it so incompetently as to have done her client a major disservice. Assuming arguendo that only one color ink was employed in both the inscription and the annotation (and that the ink in those two sections did not otherwise jump out as being from two different pens, via texture/flow/ect. characteristics), the printed portion “Olde Hickory House . . .” all-but-literally jumps out at any reasonably intelligent observer as being in a different hand. Did Allred inquire of Nelson re: this? Perhaps. But if so, not firmly enough. Myself, if my client told me (that her recollection was) that Roy Moore wrote the entirety of that which was written, I would have pushed back strongly, suggesting to her what is obviously the simplest and the most natural explanation: whether Nelson mis-remembers or fails to actually recall, that section of the inscription (and perhaps as far back as the “D.A.”) is an *annotation* – no doubt made at the time by Nelson.

    There is no question but that Allred screwed this up, in not reviewing the inscription with sufficient rigor and in not prepping her client appropriately prior to the presser.

    This all was unfortunate, because it gave rise to a matter that had to be corrected (for Nelson had erroneously said at the original presser that Moore had written the entirety of what was written), and given the hyper-partisanship of the day, a million and one of one tribe are eager to call one of the other tribe “a liar”.

    It also sidetracked the discussion into a foolish, nonsensical and wholy artificially truncated discussion of whether the inscription was or was not a forgery. For that discussion did not discuss the inscription as a whole, but rather the signature line, principally, with its “D.A.” (And the whole Debra (?) Adams angle/sideshow.)

    Of course, any *intelligent* and open-minded inquiry re: the inscription as a whole would have taken a turn which it did not. Assuming, arguendo, that the inscription as a whole is a forgery, how is it that Nelson (or Mr. X) produced a reasonably accurate approximation of the cursive of Roy Moore throughout that inscription? How was it done?

    Obviously, the inscription as a whole MUST reaonably approximate Roy Moore’s very own hand, otherwise Roy Moore would have proffered a writing example to his attorneys and to the public and proclaimed “Look at that inscription in the yearbook! Examine it even with the most cursory eye, and you will see that that’s nothing like the way I wrote back then, or I write today! They could not be more dissimilar, and in support thereof, here a card I wrote to my Mom in 1980 and here a note I wrote to my law clerk in 2009.”

    But Moore made no such proffer. Because the inscription as a whole – some hundred (?) cursive letters in particular concatenation – does in fact reasonably approximate Moore’s own hand. That is a conclusion one is almost compelled to draw from Moore’s own lack of proffer. It also is a conclusion which is supported by Roy Moore’s handwritten graduation card to the other accuser, recently discovered.

    But how? How could Nelson (… Mr. X?) possibly have managed this incredible feat of forgery? Seemingly, no more than Nelson, or you, or Patterico could successfully render a reasonable approximation of *my hand* in a writing of similar complexity and length as the inscription in the yearbook, having seen only my signature. An impossible task, in other words. Absent a magician, forsooth!

    And of course, if the body of the inscription is Roy Moore’s, the signature is his as well. All this stuff and nonsense and sturm and drang about a forgery is nothing but bad faith, or soft brains, or both.

    Not that it hasn’t muddied the waters, for surely it has. But it’s patent tosh.

    Q! (86710c)

  241. 166

    @115- Comparing the value and validity of Roy Moore’s short scrawl in a yearbook to the multi-million dollar attempt to fake Hitler’s diaries– an attempt which failed- is quite a stretch given the time and expenses involved– and the millions to be made– …

    Well obviously I can only provide examples of forgeries which were ultimately detected, that doesn’t mean all forgeries are detected. And as for the millions involved you would think this would also provide an incentive to check very carefully. Still the buyer was fooled.

    And apparently Allred has already had the inscription and signature verified by a doc examiner per her presser …

    Am I correct that anyone can call themselves a “document examiner”? Has the examiner’s full report been released or are you relying on Allred’s characterization of it?

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  242. With a little money, say the 10 million the dems stuffed down fusion which subcontracted steele who hired akmetshin’s svr associates who launder the product into an official intelligence document see how it works

    narciso (d1f714)

  243. “Walter Russell Mead
    @wrmead
    I remember Watergate pretty well, and I don’t remember anything like this level of journalistic carelessness back then. The constant stream of ‘bombshells’ that turn into duds is doing much more to damage the media than anything Trump could manage.”

    harkin (bd8145)

  244. All that crap, you’re putting it in the paper? It’s all been denied. Katie Graham’s gonna get her tit caught in a big fat wringer if that’s published. Good Christ! That’s the most sickening thing I ever heard.

    -Attorney General John Mitchell.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  245. Yes mark felt fed Woodward and bernstein some dubious elements, which they introduced into all the presidents men, max Holland discovered where the improvisations began.

    narciso (d1f714)

  246. Said document was the pretext use to secure the fisa warrant, presumably fro. Judge contreras to secure the surveillance of transition officials.

    narciso (d1f714)

  247. beverly nelson i mock your pain hahahahaha

    are we clear on this honey boo boo?

    okey dokey you can go back to pretending to dab away your imaginary rape tears

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  248. oopers *HAHAHAHAHA* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  249. In my mind, the re-election of Richard Nixon, compared with what was available on the other side, was so much more important that I put it in just that context.

    -John Mitchell on HILLARY!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  250. Mr. President, there is a malignancy in the White House

    -John Dean

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  251. forgery, n. 1. The act of fraudulently making a false document or altering a real one to be used as if genuine … 2. A false or altered document made to look genuine by someone with the intent to deceive … 3. Under the Model Penal Code, the act of fraudulently altering, authenticating, issuing, or transferring a writing without appropriate authorization

    It does not matter if part of the document — say, the signature — is real. If any part of the document is altered and presented as original and authentic, it is a forgery and the entire document is legally useless — or worse than useless, since it impeaches the credibility of the person presenting it.

    so how much do people hate Moore that they are willing to use fabricated evidence to ruin his reputation ?

    I do not hate Nelson, whether she is telling the truth or not about what happen to her. But I have read folks throughout the internet who hated Moore BEFORE this forgery and before the false accusations AND they are hoping against hope he doesn’t get elected into the Senate.

    It certainly says something about the age we live: Its as if we have all become Tammany Hall. Do whatever you can to get elected or hurt your opponent. And now thanks to the digital global national village we all can be part of the rumble, which, in the past was solely left to party bosses and soldiers.

    There is no doubt in my mind that forces way beyond Alabama are involved in preventing Moore to be elected. They are actively promoting concepts that are illegal yet package as if they are “OK”, especially if it gets the desired end result: No Judge Roy Moore in the Senate. These corrupt forces want to make it acceptable to go along with supporting hearsay, forgery, slander, etc… you name it, ALL forms of corruption are being used by the anti-Moore forces as if they are valid forms of political commentary & opinion.

    heck….these same forces made at least 50% of the USA population:

    1) think it’s “OK” to kill or end life in the womb of an unborn human being

    2) think it’s “OK” to put a person in jail or fine them to death, for not actively supporting a gay marriage ceremony i.e. to force a human being to do something against their freewill and conscience

    whats the big deal if they, the “swamp”, the modern day Tammany Hall party bosses, are now trying to get people to:

    3) think it’s “OK” to use lies and forgeries to prevent someone, a “life”, a being who has the ability of choice, of using their “freewill & conscience”, to disagree with the swamp, with the DC cesspool; modern day Tammany Hall…

    Instead of simply going by policy and belief of each candidate, and having them square off in a debate on the issues, we are all being drawing the dirty grimy corrupt political swamp of character assassination and ending people’s professional lives & personal liberties.

    just image that….

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  252. As a result of certain acts or omissions occurring before his resignation from the Office of President, Richard Nixon has become liable to possible indictment and trial for offenses against the United States. Whether or not he shall be so prosecuted depends on findings of the appropriate grand jury and on the discretion of the authorized prosecutor. Should an indictment ensue, the accused shall then be entitled to a fair trial by an impartial jury, as guaranteed to every individual by the Constitution.

    It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

    -Gerald Ford

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  253. Yes you got the gist of it, where a whole of reformer or at least challengers were targeted by weaponized lawfare or ethics complaint abuse.

    narciso (d1f714)

  254. It’s been established scientifically that you need 5 pieces of counterintel for every Trumpet belief

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)


  255. 270.It’s been established scientifically that you need 5 pieces of counterintel for every Trumpet belief

    No, but the truth would be nice. Not hyperbole, insinuation, accusation or fraud. Just the truth even if the left loses.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  256. Everyone overlooking one simple test to determine if Roy Moore signed the yearbook they are! Finger and palm prints would be present if sign it he did! No one I know signs a document that will move when signed such as a slippery yearbook page. Hold it with one’s hand while resting the other on the page while signing they do! Check pages of yearbook for finger and palm prints and compare them to his that are on file in the background checks that were submitted to FBI when he became ADA or other government positions.

    No one sees forest for the trees anymore!

    yoda jr (310909)

  257. yes yes we can also dust Beverly’s massive thighs for prints too we can

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  258. @249
    Show your work

    Davethulhu (6ec333)

  259. Hoagies not the only one to have a very selective and myopic ideas about truth

    Moore is a longtime skeptic of Obama’s citizenship and was a leading voice of the “birther” movement. The former judge has been calling into question the former president’s citizenship as far back as 2008.

    “I don’t see any reason a candidate who has such a serious question would not come forward with the truth about where he was born,” Moore said in 2008 during Obama’s candidacy in an interview with Worldnetdaily.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gop-senate-candidate-roy-moore-said-he-does-not-believe-obama-is-a-natural-born-citizen/article/2632377

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  260. Birfers never die, they just transfer to Benghaaazzzee, Pizzagate and Uranus #1

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  261. O toner surprise, Jason leopolds. Rosetta memo re Enron, followed up with frogmRching rove assertiom

    narciso (d1f714)

  262. @246

    How much does “muh yellowcake” make you trust “muh Russian collusion”?

    Are you using your maiden name now a la Hillary Rodham Clinton? Or are you shooting off flares to spoof the filters? You are a below whale sh*t warfare officer after all.

    Pinandpuller (24767d)

  263. Are you using a Klingon Thesaurus?

    Narco sock puppet?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  264. @276

    Why did Tony Podesta resign? To spend more time with his wood fired pizza oven and creepy cook book?

    Pinandpuller (24767d)

  265. Lol. You want to argue the merits?

    I would much rather hear your thoughts on involuntary commitment…for Trump, I mean.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  266. I have a strong suspicion that the Admiral’s house looks like a set from Criminal Minds.

    Pinandpuller (24767d)

  267. Admiral’s ringtone is an Amber Alert.

    Pinandpuller (24767d)

  268. Are you open to discussing Uranus #1?

    Are you into it?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  269. Now you’re introverting into evasion again.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  270. there’s so much going on in america what’s completely unrelated to trash honey boo boos and their vaginas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  271. You’re all stiffy until that cold water hits..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  272. oopers *trashy* honey boo boos i mean

    ok so there’s this super-healthy restaurant i like to go to

    happyfeet (28a91b)


  273. 275.Hoagies not the only one to have a very selective and myopic ideas about truth

    Just how is: “No, but the truth would be nice. Not hyperbole, insinuation, accusation or fraud.” very selective and myopic?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  274. https://dakiniland.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/empty-arena-pensacola.jpg

    Just be in awe of the multitudes flocking to hear the AntiChrist in Pensacola..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  275. Hoagie

    You said once before you didn’t like having your intelligence besmirched by my simplified explanations. I suggest you review our words.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  276. Pin

    Word to the wise. Avoid the rush to embarrassment. Block Ben b4 Xmas.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  277. Allred needs a bar hearing,Nelson needs to be prosecuted

    EPWJ (4dc563)

  278. they’re all gluten free which is genuinely important for one person what comes to see me

    and I have my veggie friend F to think about now

    but they have seriously wonderful food AND a thoughtful cocktail program as well to where if you understand a bit about cocktails you can find ones on their menu what pair fabulously with the dishes

    really neat dining room too

    but the clientele when we go always has sticks up their ass and nobody really drinks there

    or really orders all that much foozle

    whereas i like a sumptuous table where everyone is trying things and engaging in what the chef is doing

    so we’re always a really good table for them

    but the waitstaff finds it very off-putting for some reason (our waitress last night was revealed to be a miserable sjw white girl princess from nether illinois not chicago proper)

    i think maybe i should go to the one in NY and compare experiences before i make a final judgement

    i think these yokels in illinois think healthy foozle has to be super serious or even goddamn downright churchy (common regular illinois people regularly eat garbage and are quite proud of slurping up every last garbage morsel)

    so they overcompensate

    we had kids with us last night and one of them would have been wholly amused by the corn chips what accompanied an appetizer and our appetizer remnants for the whole evening so we asked for extra corn chips and the vapid twat seriously brought the kid 5 corn chips

    these kids are cartoonishly thin btw

    but to be fair to chicago – this restaurant’s the only place i go where i walk away befuddled by the ungraciousness with which they serve their delicious foozle – and it just keeps happening

    and to be fair it’s partly my bemusement what draws me back there when i have the occasion for it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  279. roy moore please to not touch my hot body – beverly nelson, 2017

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  280. “You’re all stiffy until that cold water hits…”

    Rear Admiral says that to all the little children before he drops their bodies into the cold waters of the lakes…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  281. With inscription & signature sample authenticated as Moore’s, the next logical question to ask is how it got into Nelson’s yearbook– which would bring into question Moore’s denials. But regardless, the yearbook has now become a piece of U.S. political memorabilia and w/added value to collectors who specialize in same– as will any samples of Moore’s signatures/inscriptions should he be elected to the U.S. Senate.

    So at auction, which piece could be a top seller: a- the Ten Commandments handwritten on U.S. Senate letterhead, signed ‘Roy Moore, United States Senate, Alabama, January 31, 2018;’ b- the notorious yearbook c- a pair of lace panties signed ‘Roy Moore, U.S. Senate, 1/31/18′ across the butt.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  282. Lol DC

    I bet he still carries mainly dollar bills for stuffing out of habit.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  283. The capital M on Moore doesn’t match the capital M on Merry Christmas.

    The whole signature is bogus. Bogus in two different colors no less.

    Whomever wrote the sentiment (and who can say really. It looks like they never signed it.) and whomever inscribed Roy Moore’s name to it, are two different people.

    Scurrilous with a capital Scurril.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  284. Yes but you didn’t explain about the entrees

    narciso (d1f714)

  285. Go Army

    mg (60b0f7)

  286. Good game. Army has passed once and pitched the option once.

    mg (60b0f7)

  287. The left is always apologizing.

    For some reason they refuse to learn the Republcan way..

    Never apologize. Never explain

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  288. I don’t care if Trump fills the Colosseum with miscreants from the 7th circle of Hell. He still sits at 1/3 minority.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  289. Make that Super minority.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  290. @222- 1/2/3/4: Rubbish.

    This is a simple matter of authenticating an inscription and signature, period. Drop the political spin, forget it reads ‘Roy Moore’ and says: “To a sweeter, more beautiful girl I could not say “Merry Christmas” Christmas, 1977 Love, Bear Bryant” annotated by the owner with “H.C. UoA, 12-22-77 Olde Hickory House”.

    Authentication such an inscription w/signature would be relatively easy for an experienced autograph collector/document examiner.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  291. She and her attorney both said that Moore wrote the whole thing at the first presser.

    They did?

    According to the transcript, she said:

    Mr. Moore happened to notice it and asked if he could write in your yearbook. I felt flattered and I said “yes”. He wrote in my yearbook as follows:

    She then held up the yearbook to reveal his inscription.

    “As follows” is not the same as “wrote the whole thing”. One could be forgiven for drawing that conclusion, but it is not what she said.

    Dave (445e97)

  292. So now you have it Roy forging Bear Bryant’s signature.

    This is the same thing that bugs me about sampled music riffs.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  293. Just be in awe of the multitudes flocking to hear the AntiChrist in Pensacola..
    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab) — 12/9/2017 @ 1:35 pm

    Well, Bunsen Burner, you are not too bright.

    https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/12/09/wapo-writer-apologizes-to-president-trump-for-posting-phony-photo-of-empty-arena/

    SPQR (240837)

  294. So it’s good newsthe crowds were Bigly for the Anti-Christ?

    Titus would be proud SPQR.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  295. Beldar, for decades Gloria Allred has substituted loud and obnoxious for any actual skill.

    SPQR (240837)

  296. Bunsen, you simply revel in lying. Its an old and tired act. Piss off.

    SPQR (240837)

  297. You guys said Obama wasn’t too bright .

    Oompa Loompa Trump is a genius and he is not a crook.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  298. Video has emerged of “crazy” Beverly soliciting signatures for her yearbook in 1977.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lj3LydT1uk

    papertiger (c8116c)


  299. Oompa Loompa Trump is a genius and he is not a crook.


    All we know is he outsmarted the Most Brilliant Woman in the World™ for President by going after electoral votes while she cornered the illegal vote in Cali. At least he’s smarter than Hillary!.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  300. This article analyzes the non-denial denials for Moore’s attorney (who never claims the inscription and signature isn’t his, simply that the annotation below isn’t), and another note written by (and acknowledged by) Moore to a 17 year-old he dated when he was 34 (this woman has not accused Moore of mistreating her).

    When you put together all of this evidence—the yearbook, the scrapbook, and the original statements from Moore and his attorney—the forgery theory starts to get awfully complicated. Why would a forger write the yearbook inscription and the notes below it—or why would a conspirator arrange for them to be written—in two different styles? Why would Moore speak of “tampering” rather than pure fabrication? Is the graduation card a forgery, too? If so, how did the same forger get access to a yearbook in Alabama and to a scrapbook in Florida?

    Dave (445e97)

  301. Schmarter than Hillary

    Whatabout Chappiquiddick?

    But, Gorsuch

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  302. the entrees thing is interesting

    they used to have one of those graduated entrees menus where it was made clear the lower-end entrees were share plates and the higher-end ones were traditional entrees (fun)

    last night celiac girl was curious to try the pasta cause gluten-free pasta tends to be uninspiring

    i added a cauliflower steak and roast chicken for the table

    (cauliflower steak is silly value-wise ($17 for a .59 cent slice of cauliflower) yet always kinda interesting)

    my entree was a very nice but tiny piece of salmon which honestly it’s hard to find a restaurant what can screw that up

    Mr. celiac eschewed steak for carnitas tacos cause they run cattle at home and he has a hard time ordering steak out

    i get that but he’s one of those steak and potatoes guys where he should stay in his comfort zone

    OH – did not mention

    it’s a “healthy” restaurant but so sweet how they make a point of keeping “unsustainable” steak and a (grass-fed) burger on menu so everyone’s “welcome” (except the waitstaff undermines this ethos every chance they get)

    me i know the grass is where the cows pee

    corn-fed is the way to go really for flavor

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  303. Off-topic, the Dotard-in-Chief last night:

    “Did you see all the corrections the media has been making. They’re saying sorry — they’ve been doing that all year. They never apologize.

    (emphasis added)

    So the media has been saying sorry all year, AND they never apologize. The bastards!

    This is a man who tells contradictory and mutually exclusive lies, in (literally) the same breath, without even a hint of shame.

    Dave (445e97)

  304. @298. Autographed dollar bills, most likely, too, Ben. What be your bid on those panties?! Helluva fundraising gimmick, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  305. cnn fake news trash-sluts gone be trashy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  306. During her original press conference with Allred in November, in which she made her original accusation, Nelson read aloud and attributed the entire inscription to Moore, including the date and location.

    He wrote in my yearbook as follows: ‘To a sweeter more beautiful girl, I could not say Merry Christmas, Christmas, 1977, Love, Roy Moore, Olde Hickory House. Roy Moore, DA,'” she said.

    Not only did she lie, she actually voiced a 2nd Moore signature that doesn’t appear in the yearbook photos. Did they white it out before the pictures were taken and hastily add a “DA” after the first signature?

    jcurtis (9702fd)

  307. @309 Dave. [Me] She and her attorney both said that Moore wrote the whole thing at the first presser.
    [You] They did? [Para.] According to the transcript, she said: …

    I know there are inaccurate transcripts / accounts out there. I see from my saves that the NYT has a report which identifies the text which follows as being “the text of a statement released on Monday by Beverly Young Nelson.” [emphasis added]

    Nelson, however, did in fact represent (and apparently erroneously believed / misremembered) that the part which is obviously an annotation, and the part which is somewhat less obviously an annotation, were written by Moore. The simplest and most natural reason for this is that she simply made a mistake and mis-remembered. (And that recollection may have been reinforced by any recent conversations she had with Allred, etc.) The most natural, human, occam’s razor, explanation is that there was no intent to deceive, but rather a simple mistake.

    If you view the actual press conference, you will note that Nelson attributes all the writing on the page to Moore, and indeed, she adds in the “D.A.” part only after being (mis-)prompted by Allred. At and around the 12 minute mark. (All of which highlights the terrible job Allred did here. What poor preparation and neglect of client. Scandalous.)

    Q! (86710c)

  308. 325-“The simplest and most natural reason for this is that she simply made a mistake and mis-remembered.”

    Why would she do an annotation for that when she can’t remember which day within a two week period that the claimed assault took place? But she remembers all kinds of details. I guess it wasn’t a day that would live in infamy like the day Moore signed her yearbook.

    jcurtis (9702fd)

  309. @326. (A) I really do not take your point. It seems a total non-sequitur. She almost certainly did the annotation at the time – 40 years ago. What does that have to do about her remembering or not, 40 years later, what day the assault took place? None. Obviously. And who would possibly remember what day it was ? (unless one has an eidetic memory (Shelton, Big Bang) or perhaps if it was the 4th of July, etc.)

    (B) But she remembers all kinds of details [presumably you mean about the alleged assault]. Yeah. An assault tends to imprint on one. Especially given the circumstances / the assaulter. Which is not to say, either, that a fair-minded person – who actually has experience in the world – necessarily expects that every detail she (or he or that fellow yonder) recalls is in fact accurate. From 40 years back. Y’know. (Don’t you know?)

    Q! (86710c)

  310. 327.Quite simply, having an important person scribble some sweet generic tripe in your yearbook screams out for an annotation of time and place so that you’ll never forget the moment. Having the same exact important person attempt to rape you…meh. Maybe records could get looked at to see where Moore was on the date in question. That’s exactly what they don’t want.

    jcurtis (9702fd)

  311. @jcurtis:But she remembers all kinds of details

    No she doesn’t.

    She doesn’t remember who locked the restaurant at close so she had to stand outside with Moore; that person and likely several others were still there for at least the next hour and could corroborate that what she said was true.

    She can remember that Moore wore “brown hush puppies”, had an “old car” with “two doors”, but that’s it.

    She doesn’t remember whether the assault was January or December. She doesn’t remember what day she quit the job, which was “the next day”, or who she told she quit.

    She doesn’t remember how long she waited for her boyfriend before getting into Moore’s car.

    And she doesn’t remember the layout of the parking lot and dumpsters at all, or what time the restaurant actually closed, or who actually served at the counter, according to other people who worked there:


    Rhonda Ledbetter, a retired public school teacher who is currently the senior choir director at a Baptist church and teaches children at a local, church-sponsored day care center, was a waitress at Olde Hickory House for almost three years from 1977-1979. She was a college student at Jacksonville State University at the time and worked varying shifts at different times of day, multiple days a week during the time of her employment. She said in a statement: “When I heard Beverly Nelson’s story, there were several details that were different from what I remember. I was nervous at coming forward because of all the attention this story has gotten, but as a moral and ethical person I had to speak up about what I know to be true. I was a waitress at Olde Hickory for almost three years from 1977-1979, and I never saw Roy Moore come in to the restaurant. Not one time. And I would have noticed because most of our customers weren’t wearing suits, especially not at night. Many customers worked at Goodyear next door and would stop in on their way to and from work, and I don’t remember anyone from the courthouse coming in at all. That just wasn’t our crowd.
    “A few things stuck out to me. First, Nelson said she was 15 years old when she started working there but you had to be 16. I don’t remember her from my time there, and I don’t remember any 15 year olds working there at all.

    “Second, Nelson said the restaurant closed at 10 p.m. but I know the earliest it closed was 11, though I believe it was midnight. I’m certain of that because Goodyear employees came in to eat after their shift ended at 10:00 p.m., so there’s no way we would have closed at that time.

    “Third, the area wasn’t dark and isolated as she described. Rather, the building was right off the busy four-lane highway and people and cars were always around. The restaurant had a wrap-around porch, like the ones at Cracker Barrel restaurants, and there were lights all around the sides of the building. So it wasn’t dark and anyone in the parking lot was visible from the road.

    “Fourth, the dumpsters were to the side of the building, not around back and there sure wasn’t room to park in between the building and the dumpsters. People from the kitchen would take trash out of the side door and throw it right into the dumpsters. We were always told to park on the side of the building, because there just wasn’t much room behind it. I don’t remember there being an exit from the back of the parking lot, there would barely have been enough room to turn a car around.

    “I came forward because from what I’ve seen, the media is only interested in reporting one side of this story. In fact, Dixon Hayes from WRBC in Birmingham asked for former employees to contact him but never responded when I told him I never saw Roy Moore come into Olde Hickory House during the three years I worked for. Two other news outlets in the state asked to interview me and I agreed, but neither one has aired my interview and I have to wonder why they don’t think the people of Alabama deserve to hear anything that counteracts the accusations against Judge Moore. It’s not for me to say whether or not something happened, I can only tell the truth about factual details that I know for sure. I think all Alabamians deserve to have all of the facts so they can decide for themselves what the truth is. Despite what the national media and people in DC might say, Alabama voters are intelligent and have common sense. We don’t need anyone to tell us how to vote or to explain to us what really happened. We will make that decision and I just wanted to do my part in sharing the truth on some of these important facts. I, like all Alabama voters, want any and all information that can shed light on the truth.”

    Johnny Belyeu, Sr. is a former police officer with over two decades of experience with the Etowah County Sheriff’s Department and the Gadsden Police Department. He said in a statement, “I was an officer with the Etowah County Sheriff’s Department in the 1970s which means I worked in the courthouse and knew who Roy Moore was since he was the Deputy District Attorney at the time. I was a regular customer at Olde Hickory House, and I never once saw Judge Moore come in there. If he had I would have immediately recognized him. I also never met Beverly Nelson during any of the many times I frequented the restaurant, and I can’t say that she even worked there.”

    Renee Schivera of Huntsville, Alabama stated, “I was a waitress at the Olde Hickory House during the summer of 1977, before my senior year of high school. When I heard Beverly Nelson’s story the first thing that stuck out to me was that I don’t remember Roy Moore ever coming into the restaurant. I also don’t remember her working there. The other thing that struck me as odd is that from my best recollection, the dumpsters were to the side of the building. I just know they were visible from the road, and not back behind the building. But the main thing is that if someone came in almost every night we knew who there were, and I never saw Roy Moore there. As a Christian woman, I wouldn’t lie for anyone and I am only sharing what I know because it’s the truth.”

    Frederick (7d9883)

  312. Lots of witnesses countering her story.

    NJRob (b00189)

  313. “As follows” is not the same as “wrote the whole thing”. One could be forgiven for drawing that conclusion, but it is not what she said.

    Dave (445e97) — 12/9/2017 @ 3:04 pm

    Perhaps one could be forgiven for drawing that conclusion because she and Allred were being deliberately misleading. They intended everyone to draw the conclusion that Moore wrote the entire forged inscription. I saw video of the Nelson/Allred presser of November 13. Nelson held up the yearbook and Allred read the entire inscription aloud. Including the parts that Nelson later admitted were her forgery. There is no way, watching that, that anyone could have drawn any other conclusion but that Moore wrote the whole thing.

    Sorry, Dana, but forged/forgery is the correct word when someone modifies an original document and attempts to pass of the modified document as a genuine original.

    Also, NJ Robb has asked me why I am bending over backwards to “give this woman the benefit of the doubt and hold Moore in the worst possible light?” In response, I would ask him, why he and others are bending over backwards to give Moore the benefit of the doubt and hold Nelson (and the other women who have come forward to accuse Moore) in the worst possible light?

    Dana (023079) — 12/9/2017 @ 8:41 am

    I’m holding Beverly Young Nelson and her ambulance chaser in the worst possible light because that’s what those two deserve. As far as any other accusers go (which do not include the older girls above the age of consent who haven’t accused Moore of anything untoward) I’ve simply said that since the statute of limitations passed for either a civil or criminal action about 35 years ago the facts are now unknowable. That’s why we have statutes of limitations.

    Frederick @ 12/9/2017 @ 7:54 pm covered most of the reasons why I don’t believe a word Nelson is saying. Too many people have said that Beverly Young (her maiden name) didn’t work at the restaurant and that the sequence of events couldn’t possibly have happened as Beverly Young Nelson now describes them.

    Here’s a guy she dated in 1977. He doesn’t remember her working at that restaurant, either.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/20/exclusive-ex-boyfriend-of-roy-moore-accuser-i-dont-believe-her/

    I know, I know, it’s Breitbart. But while the larger media outlets have invited former employees and regular customers to come forward, apparently they expected these people to confirm Nelson’s story. Instead since they’re debunking Nelson’s story they won’t give them the time of day. Once more for emphasis. Rhonda Ledbetter said:

    “I came forward because from what I’ve seen, the media is only interested in reporting one side of this story. In fact, Dixon Hayes from WRBC in Birmingham asked for former employees to contact him but never responded when I told him I never saw Roy Moore come into Olde Hickory House during the three years I worked for. Two other news outlets in the state asked to interview me and I agreed, but neither one has aired my interview and I have to wonder why they don’t think the people of Alabama deserve to hear anything that counteracts the accusations against Judge Moore. It’s not for me to say whether or not something happened, I can only tell the truth about factual details that I know for sure.

    Consequently these facts are being reported only by media outlets of lesser repute, if you believe major media outlets like the NYT/WaPo/CNN/MSNBC/CBS/NBC/ABC et all actually deserve any respect at all. From the Breitbart interview:

    The former boyfriend, Jeff DeVine, attended high school with Young and is currently in Thailand, where he runs DeVine Ministries with his wife and twin daughters. He says that as part of his ministry, which focuses on rescuing children, he has worked with victims of rape and other trauma.

    A high school classmate of Nelson’s who spoke to Breitbart News remembers DeVine and Nelson briefly dating around 1977. DeVine also provided a copy of his high school yearbook inscribed with a lengthy message by Nelson. The inscription was signed by “Beverly Young,” using Nelson’s maiden name.

    …Asked about the allegations, DeVine stated, “No, I don’t believe it.”

    DeVine, speaking to Breitbart News from Thailand via Skype, said that his estimation was “based off just my experience with people,” and not any specific evidence that Nelson was being dishonest.

    “I certainly wouldn’t qualify as an expert, but I have been in ministry for many years,” he related. “I have dealt with a lot of people. People that have been through trauma. People that have been molested or hurt and all kinds of situations.”

    “I have learned to just study body language and the way a person tells a story. And as I said, I wouldn’t qualify, I am sure, in a court of law as being an expert – but just from my experience, I didn’t find her story believable. And the way she told it.”

    …DeVine described befriending and dating Nelson in 1977 when the two attended Southside High School in Alabama.

    “We started dating off and on,” he recalled. “Nothing real serious at first. I didn’t have a car, at first. I just had a motorcycle, so we would ride my motorcycle. Later when I got a car we went out in my car a few times. And we dated off and on maybe a year.”

    Nelson’s inscription in DeVine’s yearbook mentions his motorcycle.

    …While DeVine says that he dated Nelson at around the time of the alleged incident, he says that he was not the boyfriend who may have picked her up in the restaurant and that she was dating someone else at the same time.

    DeVine could not recall Nelson working as a waitress in a restaurant at all. “I don’t remember her working in that restaurant,” he stated. “I’m not saying that she didn’t. I just don’t remember it.”

    DeVine says that Nelson ultimately ended the relationship to be with the other boyfriend.

    …DeVine continued: “It wasn’t a dramatic breakup. Like I said, we weren’t in love. We were going out. We were friends. We never had a physical relationship. I won’t say we didn’t kiss, but I mean we never had sex or anything like that. She just made it clear to me that she was concerned about me. About whether I would be the best guy for her and she had this other guy that liked her, and she thought he would be a better choice.”

    “And I was just the kind of guy, well, okay, I am not going to compete with somebody. If you like this other guy, then I think it is best you to go for him. And so, we just agreed that we wouldn’t see each other and she was going to push through the relationship with that guy. It was okay. It was a very peaceful friendship type of a break-up. It wasn’t a dramatic breakup. Broken heart or anything like that at all.”

    Nelson’s stepson has called his stepmom’s allegation a “100% lie.” Perhaps there’s some animosity there. Also perhaps some inside information about Beverly Young Nelson’s character. YMMV.

    But all in all the people coming forward saying that her story is completely unbelievable are far more credible than the liar/forger and her ambulance chasing attorney.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  314. It doesn’t matter what any of them ‘say.’ All that matters is the authentication of the inscription and signature as Moore’s. Then the next logical question is how did it get into Nelson’s yearbook, which calls into question Moore’s insistent denials.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  315. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1490&v=DLPyYOjjIXw

    Gloria Allred, Beverly Young Nelson speak on new Roy Moore sexual assault allegations

    Start watching around the 23:30 mark to see the misleading yearbook reading.

    Another reason, Dana, that I was initially suspicious is that it’s impossible to lock a person sitting in the front seat of an American car built before 1980. All you have to do is pull the inside door handle and it pops the lock. Beverly Young Nelson says Moore locked her into his two door car.

    Can’t be done, Dana. Not if he was driving an American car, and I very much doubt the ADA in Gadsden AL circa 1977 would be driving a Toyota or Benz.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  316. It doesn’t matter what any of them ‘say.’ All that matters is the authentication of the inscription and signature as Moore’s. Then the next logical question is how did it get into Nelson’s yearbook, which calls into question Moore’s insistent denials.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/9/2017 @ 11:09 pm

    Yes, it does, pathetic joker. Her entire story is a lie if she didn’t work at that restaurant, and Moore never went to that restaurant, and the only thing placing both of them at the establishment is Nelson’s forgery.

    For all we know he may have signed it, but at the courthouse at her invitation. Maybe she was there on a school field trip. Because the Olde Hickory restaurant story is complete and total B.S.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  317. @334. You’ve got it backwards. Once the inscription and signature are authenticated as Moore’s the next logical question to ask is how it got into Nelson’s yearbook. “For all we know he may have signed it.” Uh, Moore has denied everything about and around her so those denials come into question if you accept your own premise.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  318. Uh, Moore has denied everything about and around her so those denials come into question if you accept your own premise.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/9/2017 @ 11:38 pm

    No, it doesn’t. Do you imagine that a baseball player knows every person who asked him to sign a baseball or a baseball card? Because that’s your premise. Read my scenario again. That inscription isn’t addressed to anyone. That makes perfect sense if she asked him to sign it, and he didn’t even know her name. So he just scribbled something in her yearbook, a complete stranger to him, and handed it back to her.

    Clinton has signed thousands of books bought by her adoring fans. Which are about as personal as what Roy Moore wrote. She can’t be said to know any of them.

    Scroll up and click my earlier link and read what Beverly Young wrote in Jeff Devine’s yearbook. Her inscription is addressed to him by name, and it’s full of details that only a personal acquaintance would know.

    There is nothing in that generic inscription that would indicate Moore actually knew Beverly Young Nelson or anything about her.

    Maybe if you got out of your mom’s basement and met more than three people in your life you might understand. Just because he signed it doesn’t mean he knows her. Not unless we know the circumstances, which Beverly Young Nelson lied about. So we certainly can’t take her word for it. Whatever the circumstances we know one thing. He didn’t sign it at the Olde Hickory restaurant.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  319. @336. As noted earlier– it’s a win if he wins and a win if he loses. Ain’t got no dog in this hunt. But authentication of the inscription and signature of Moore in Nelson’s yearbook and annotated by her begs the next logical question: how did Moore’s inscription and signature get into her yearbook when he has refuted all knowledge of her. a base analysis of the particulars have been described in earlier posts. Do step away from the bong.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  320. 333. I had assumed that Moore had a driver-controlled power locks for the passenger side but after reading it again, it’s a much more absurd accusation than that. She said she was trying to get out of the car but Moore reached over her body to lock the door. It’s a far side cartoon or a Dumb and Dumber joke. There is a real possibility that she’s doing performance art and she’s gonna call a press conference and get the media all assembled and say “Ha, I got you all! How could you believe it when I said ( and then she lists all the absurdities from her statements )”. She would destroy all the “fact checkers”.

    jcurtis (9702fd)

  321. There was a second signer…beside the dumpster…in back of Olde Hickory House…could it be the boyfriend who was supposed to pick her up?

    Pinandpuller (e88360)

  322. “I don’t remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother.” Roy Moore

    I would like to try to digest that one but… I keep throwing up a little bit.

    noel (b4d580)

  323. Put coprophilia in the rearview mirror, noel…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  324. 335

    … But authentication of the inscription and signature of Moore …

    What authentication?

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  325. McConnell’s acquiescence is all the more striking since he has become a useful symbol of the Party establishment that Moore professes to oppose. Last Tuesday, at a rally in Fairhope, Alabama, which Steve Bannon, the President’s former chief strategist, also attended, Moore told the crowd that he knew that Trump was “trying so hard” to do everything he had promised during the campaign—end Obamacare, tear up nafta, build the wall. He was just being held back by the likes of McConnell.
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/18/donald-trump-roy-moore-and-the-degradation-of-the-gop?currentPage=all

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  326. 138. Demosthenes (09f714) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:04 pm

    “People can, and some people have, misidentified their attackers” does not even suggest a likelihood that it happened in this one. So it’s not a good defense of Sammy’s argument, which is pretty terrible anyway.

    Not a good defense against Sammy’s argument that she is probably lying.

    The only reason I commented was to say that I investigated an interesting argument, and it turned out to be bad. Moreover, it’s bad in that way that suggests the person pushing it knew the case was weak.

    Oh, no it’s good. Beverly Young Nelson and Gloria Allred made a big point of the “fact” that he was the District Attorney of Etowah County.

    She makes him sign his name that way, with DA after his name, like it was Esq., and she has him say to her “I am the District attorney of Etiwah [sic] County.” All to reinforce why she was scared of him, and didn’t tell anyone because she didn’t want anyone else to complain or worse.

    You could say maybe people called him the District Attorney but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Neither Roy Moore, in anything I found, not in recorded interviews, not in his book, ever referred to himself as the district attorney, or acting district attorney or anything of that nature, nor did anyone else, like the Gadsden Times.

    And that he was not THE District Attorney, and never had been, should have become very clear to Beverly Young during his campaign for Etowah County circuit judge in 1982, when his opponents made a big deal of the fact that he was suing to get a pay raise that the county commission had stopped (he eventually won that case, with interest.)

    Newspaper ads were run claiming he was “suing the taxpayers” because he was greedy and defense lawyers wrote what he calls defamatory articles about him, and it helped cost him the election. This was a highly contested election with radio and TV ads.

    And if she narrowly escaped being raped, and remembered it and took it to heart, and talked about it regularly with her sister many times when Roy Moore’s name came up, she would have noticed and remembered every little thing she encountered and learned about Roy Moore.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  327. Roy Moore was no more the District Attorney of Etowah County than Patrick Frey is the District Attorney of Los Angeles County, California, even granted that in Etowah County there were only about five attorneys in the office, including the District Attorney, Bill Rayburn, who was still there in 1982..

    He had been hired only on October 1, 1977, virtually straight out of law school, a circumstance that Ray Moore does not elaborate on or explain in his book, except that he was close to former Congressman Albert Raines, who had initially recommended him to be appointed to West Point.

    The argument that it makes no difference what exactly he was is unsound. No matter how he important he held himself out to be, he would never have used a title he didn’t have, nor would he be considered the “Boss.” He wouldn’t have used the title DA in the yearbook, and he wouldn’t have told her “I am the District attorney of Etiwah [sic] County” unless he meant to lie – but she would have known long before 2017 that that was a lie, and you would think she would mention that he lied about that to her. It would add to the outrage, and label him a liar as well.

    Her claim that he did claim that he was the District attorney of Etiwah [sic] County is a lie because she doesn’t remark upon the fact it was false.

    There’s a great deal of difference between THE District Attorney and a deputy district attorney, even the chief one. It is impossible to discuss the controversy about his pay, or maybe also the controversy created by by a judge to the disciplinary commission of the Alabama State Bar association about him going to grand jury “against the advice of the District Attorney, without learning that Roy Moore was not the district attorney. (I don’t know when and if that second controversy got into the newspapers and radio or TV)

    Even now, even in December, 2017 she is not saying that that that is an error. She’s still trying to fool people.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  328. Sammy,

    she’s still lying. Intentionally.

    NJRob (b00189)

  329. Some women do lie..

    NIKKI HALEY: You know, I am incredibly proud of the women who have come forward. I’m proud of their strength. I’m proud of their courage. And I think that the idea that this is happening, I think it will start to bring a conscience to the situation, not just in politics, but in, you know, we’ve seen in Hollywood and in every industry. And I think the time has come.

    JOHN DICKERSON: Of course I’m wrong, you were the governor, first governor of South Carolina. Given that consciousness, how do you think people should assess the accusers of the president?

    NIKKI HALEY: Well, I mean, you know, the same thing, is women who accuse anyone should be heard. They should be heard and they should be dealt with. And I think we heard from them prior to the election. And I think any woman who has felt violated or felt mistreated in any way, they have every right to speak up.

    JOHN DICKERSON: And does the election mean that’s a settled issue?

    NIKKI HALEY: You know, that’s for the people to decide

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  330. @36: Exactly. Whether or not the last name was added, “DA” was added. Not as a memo on the line underneath as Allred is trying to get us to believe, but after the last name. As if it were a title.

    Since Allred undoubtedly personally signs everything, she has no way of knowing that the phenomenon of a stamped signature followed by the initials of the person authorized to sign by direction exists. So it was an honest mistake.

    Peter B (49766a)

  331. Since Allred undoubtedly personally signs everything, she has no way of knowing that the phenomenon of a stamped signature followed by the initials of the person authorized to sign by direction exists. So it was an honest mistake.

    Peter B (49766a) — 12/10/2017 @ 2:19 pm

    What makes you think Beverly Young Nelson told Allred that she copied the initials D.A. from her court papers? This doesn’t excuse Allred’s failure to do her due diligence and verify the documentary evidence (yearbook) that her client provided her. Which is breathtaking incompetence on her part but that’s why she’s in show biz, not law biz.

    But if BYN did the same thing she did to the rest of the country, i.e. lie by omission and let anyone reading her yearbook get the false impression that Moore wrote the whole thing, Allred may well have known of the practice of a court clerk initialing a document with a judge’s stamped signature. She just wouldn’t have known BYN had copied the initials from just such a document.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  332. this John Dickerson
    his steatopygian
    Intellect sucks ass

    Colonel Haiku (820854)

  333. They don’t know whether to sh!t or go blind. http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/364201-dem-group-releases-new-ad-showing-nick-saban-as-write-in-candidate-in

    With Moore leading by 4% in the polls, which means 13% among the voters, Democrats, instead of campaigning for their loser candidate, Doug Jones, are telling people how to write-in some other Republican.

    nk (dbc370)

  334. I want Moore too, nk!

    Moore! Moore! Moore! Moore!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  335. I think he’s the cat’s jammies

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  336. Nick Satan as we knew himat suntan u,

    narciso (d1f714)

  337. I’ve seen several people argue here and elsewhere that the long periods of silence between the alleged incidents and today are conclusive proof that the women who’ve complained about Moore now are all liars — indeed, that they’re all part of a conspiracy to lie.

    That is a poor and unpersuasive argument for at least two reasons:

    First, the public pays much, much, much more attention to U.S Senate races than to state judicial races. Here’s a 2012 general election sample ballot for Etowah County (where Nelson lived), which was the first and only time Roy Moore’s name had appeared on a state-wide Alabama ballot since 2002, the first time he was elected to be Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. By my count, the Chief Justiceship was one of seventeen different judicial positions on which Ms. Nelson or her neighbors would have been voting. It’s a down-ballot race on a purely intrastate stage.

    Moore himself had been out of public office since November 13, 2003, when then Alabama AG (now U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit Judge) William H. Pryor successfully prosecuted him before the Alabama Court of the Judiciary (a special panel that hears and decides complaints of judicial ethics). When Moore supporters point out how many times he’s stood for office — on each of which occasion someone victimized by him might have had an incentive to step forward and tell her story — they conveniently fail to mention that he’s only been on the ballot twice during this millennium.

    And this particular U.S. Senate race — occasioned by Jeff Sessions’ resignation to become AG and the instant ensuing controversy over his replacement by Luther Strange — is the only statewide political contest going on right now, and it’s getting not just heavy attention within Alabama, it’s getting heavy attention nationally and even internationally.

    Seeing your abuser potentially become a U.S. Senator is a much bigger deal — and a much greater potential horror — than watching him return to a state office he’s previously held (and been kicked out of). In other words, this election is different in kind, with higher stakes, and it’s not equivalent to, or even very much comparable to, past elections in which Moore was a local or statewide judicial candidate.

    Second: It’s fascinating to me that 357 comments into this topic, there’s precisely one reference to the word “Weinstein” in this thread (by narciso, #144). We’re in the midst of a national dam-burst experience. You can say that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but don’t ignore it and then pretend that this particular couple of months in this particular year is exactly like every other couple of months in every other year going back to the 1980s!

    This convergence of circumstances — a much more important and nationally visible election contest than any Roy Moore has ever run, in a radically changed atmosphere in which the entire nation (including multiple factions within both major political parties) is reevaluating its past practices on sexual harassment — is an entirely adequate, and indeed fairly compelling, explanation for why none of these women came forward sooner.

    And in between these alleged incidents with Roy Moore many years ago and the first reports on Weinstein, with their resulting avalanche, what was the most prominent example of what happens to women who report sexual misconduct on the part of powerful male politicians? Bill Clinton’s success as a sexual predator skating above and beyond the law wasn’t lost on any victim of past sexual assault or harassment, friends and neighbors.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  338. 350. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/10/2017 @ 3:39 pm

    What makes you think Beverly Young Nelson told Allred that she copied the initials D.A. from her court papers?

    Oh, I don’t think it was Beverly Young Nelson who did the forgery. It’s too good to be the work of an amateur, acting alone. And I think Allred knows there are big problems with that yearbook signature. Maybe to protect herself, she didn’t ask to look at the physical yearbook. I don’t think BYN is paying her.

    And I wonder if really, Beverly Young Nelson put that whole thing together in 4 days – the time between the Washington Post story and when she went public. She said that that inspired to “overcome my fear” (in 2017, she had fear?) I think maybe even she was originally supposed to be part of the Washington Post story, (but the Washington Post wasn’t confident of her truthfulness, so they didn’t run it). If she wasn’t involved beforehand, four days is very quick. But I don’t know.

    I think it is also possible that the people promoting the stories to the Washington Post knew her story was weaker, and never even approached the Washington Post, because they wanted to separate it and not have her lack of credibility drag down the others (actually one of the first four is serious – Leigh Corfman)

    Of course you could say maybe BYN is paying her with the right to 35% of the value of the rights to her story.

    There’s one interesting thing: When Gloria Allred was speaking, Beverly Young nelson half corrected her by saying that she (definitely) was 16 when that drawing was done – Gloria Allred had expressed a little uncertainty. I don’t know if that’s the truth, or just her story. Probably it is true.
    .

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  339. If memory serves, Bentley won that primary, (whatever happened to him?) so we see that fusion has been spreading some of the more wretched lies against trump, since last fall, the same outfit that whitewashed planned parenthood against cmp’s charges and outed romneys donors.

    narciso (d1f714)

  340. If Harvey Weinstein is part of the res gestae (or is zeitgeist the better word), are these ladies? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/03/n-y-c-strippers-strike-dancers-say-instagram-star-bottle-girls-are-grabbing-the-cash-cite-racism/?utm_term=.acacf62b6f1b

    How much outrage is the despoilment of pure and virginal American womanhood, by unwelcome sexual advances far short of rape, entitled to these days?

    nk (dbc370)

  341. 358. Beldar (fa637a) — 12/10/2017 @ 6:05 pm

    Here’s a 2012 general election sample ballot for Etowah County (where Nelson lived), which was the first and only time Roy Moore’s name had appeared on a state-wide Alabama ballot since 2002, the first time he was elected to be Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. By my count, the Chief Justiceship was one of seventeen different judicial positions on which Ms. Nelson or her neighbors would have been voting. It’s a down-ballot race on a purely intrastate stage.

    Actually it’s the 3rd most important race on the 2012 ballot, behind President/Vice President and United States Representative for the 4th Congressional district. (There was no U.S. Senate race in Alabama either in 2000 or in 2012)

    Also, he was first elected in the year 2000, and that time he was already nationally famous. And definitely in 2012.

    When Moore supporters point out how many times he’s stood for office — on each of which occasion someone victimized by him might have had an incentive to step forward and tell her story — they conveniently fail to mention that he’s only been on the ballot twice during this millennium.

    Not true.

    Moore was also a candidate for Governor in the Republican primary for Governor both in 2006 and in 2010.

    However his polling wasn’t so great, so I guess it didn’t call for emergency measures by his political opponents.

    He lost the primary for Governor in 2006…

    http://sos.alabama.gov/sites/default/files/voter-pdfs/2006/RepublicanPrimary-OfficialCertification-06-06-2006.pdf

    ….by a vote of 306,665 to 153,354 or 66.66% for Governor Bob Riley and 33.34% for defrocked Chief Justice Roy Moore.

    In 2010 he did even worse. According to Wikipedia, citing an Excel file, he came in in fourth place in the first primary with 19.31% of the vote, behind Bradley Byrne (27.89%), Robert J. Bentley (25.15%), and Tim James (25.12%)

    He also considered running for president in 2004 and in 2012. In 2012 first as a Republican, then as a member of the Constitution Party, but in November, 2011 he decided to go for Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court again.
    .

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  342. The Harvey Weinstein effect could motivate false accusations, but wouldn’t +much strengthen the motivation for true ones. Roy Moore would have been much more vulnerable to such things than Bill Clinton – maybe not the more or less chaste dating, but the attempted premarital sex with a 14-year old and the attempted rape of a 16-year old. Maybe not the extramarital pinching of a 28-year old in 1991. She says she didn’t tell anyone because they were all too committed to Roy Moore.

    And since these incidents allegedly happened in 1977, this could have come up in 1982, and in 1986 and in 1992 and probably in 1996 unless they had 8-year terms. President Donald Trump said (and I presume he’s telling the truth here) that Roy Moore was on the ballot in eight elections. That would be 1982 for circuit judge, 1986 for district attorney (primary and runoff) 1992 again for Circuit Judge, 2000 for Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, 2006 for Governor (Republican primary) , 2010 again for Governor (Republican primary) and 2012 again for Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, and either 1996 or this year, 2017.

    I don’t know if 1 out 100 Senators is more important than Chief Justice. He can do more mischief as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court actually. The Senate race is important maybe because the senate is divided almost evenly, and it stands alone.

    But you don’t need a superstrong motivation for something true. The argument is that, if they had been true, they would have been used in one of the earlier elections. They would have hurt Roy Moore the way an extramarital affair and rape hurt Jim Bakker.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  343. Beverly Young Nelson’s/Gloria Allred’s worst hurt victim is going to be Leigh Corfman, I think. There go any dreams of $32 million or even $100,000 settlements.

    nk (dbc370)

  344. I find it most disgusting that Al Frankenphile is still in office. His comments last week were vile.

    mg (60b0f7)

  345. 324. jcurtis (9702fd) — 12/9/2017 @ 4:58 pm

    Not only did she lie, she actually voiced a 2nd Moore signature that doesn’t appear in the yearbook photos. Did they white it out before the pictures were taken and hastily add a “DA” after the first signature?

    No, I don’t think it means anything like that happened. That was just a pure flub.

    I think it is significant, though,, that the text of what was written, or supposedly written, in the yearbook, did not appear in her prepared text. She had to ad lib them, and stumbled, repeating herself. and saying some words in the wrong place.

    Now I am not sure what it means that it was omitted from the prepared text. The prepared text goes: “He wrote in my yearbook as follows:” And then she had to read the picture. The prepared text doesn’t contain any words. Perhaps Gloria Allred didn’t want people thinking too much about what those words said. Why write Christmas and the date twice?

    Or perhaps you might want to say they hadn’t decided yet what the yearbook would say when they wrote the first draft of her statement, and they didn’t have enough time to get it in.

    That stumbling might be an indication that she was unfamiliar with the words written there, and she might have been unfamiliar with what was written, because it was new and she hadn’t looked it over 50 times, but otherwise I wouldn’t read too much into that.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  346. 3. DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:25 pm

    For instance, if memory serves, a way back in the day some of the original founding documents in the National Archives had notations added by unknown handwriting on the reverse as reference for archivists simply noting they were the original documents.

    On the reverse!

    Nobody makes annotations in a place where they could be confused with what was originally written. (at the very least, they’d put it in parenthesis.)

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  347. I’ve seen several people argue here and elsewhere that the long periods of silence between the alleged incidents and today are conclusive proof that the women who’ve complained about Moore now are all liars — indeed, that they’re all part of a conspiracy to lie.

    That is a poor and unpersuasive argument for at least two reasons:

    First, the public pays much, much, much more attention to U.S Senate races than to state judicial races…

    I certainly hope you’re not referring to me. It isn’t the length of time that bothers me. It’s the timing. You may be correct that the public pays much more attention to U.S. Senate races than state judicial races.

    1. On the other hand I have a hard time believing that an attempted rape victim, as BYN claims to be, could be considered just another member of the disinterested general public.
    2. The timing definitely bothers me. If you’re correct that the public pays much more attention to a U.S. Senate race then why did no one come forward earlier. Say during the primary. One might think that the President flying in to endorse a “serial sexual predator” would attract the attention of his victims. Yet the victims waited until it was too late to replace Moore on the ballot. That reeks of politics.

    …Seeing your abuser potentially become a U.S. Senator is a much bigger deal — and a much greater potential horror — than watching him return to a state office he’s previously held (and been kicked out of). In other words, this election is different in kind, with higher stakes, and it’s not equivalent to, or even very much comparable to, past elections in which Moore was a local or statewide judicial candidate.

    Again, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that sexual assault victims would be comfortable seeing their abuser on the highest court in the state, deciding the fates of criminals accused of state crimes which include sexual assaults (including rape, of course) and knowing that he’d no doubt go leniently on them because you know he’s a sexual predator, too.

    Second: It’s fascinating to me that 357 comments into this topic, there’s precisely one reference to the word “Weinstein” in this thread (by narciso, #144). We’re in the midst of a national dam-burst experience. You can say that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but don’t ignore it and then pretend that this particular couple of months in this particular year is exactly like every other couple of months in every other year going back to the 1980s!

    I regard it as irrelevant. Everybody deserves to have their case judged on an individual basis.

    And in between these alleged incidents with Roy Moore many years ago and the first reports on Weinstein, with their resulting avalanche, what was the most prominent example of what happens to women who report sexual misconduct on the part of powerful male politicians? Bill Clinton’s success as a sexual predator skating above and beyond the law wasn’t lost on any victim of past sexual assault or harassment, friends and neighbors.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 12/10/2017 @ 6:05 pm

    I hope the large settlement Clinton had to pay out to Jennifer Flowers after he stepped on that rake and hit himself in the face by perjuring himself and suborning perjury from Monica Lewinski wasn’t lost on them either.

    By the way, I do plead guilty to mentioning both Clintons on this thread. But I only mentioned Billy Jeff in connection with the media lie of the decade; that the media went soft on him because the ’90s were a different era or something and people just didn’t take sexual harassment as seriously. I can guarantee you if you were in the Navy in the early ’90s you would know the media was in full Salem witch trial mode. They suddenly went all Woodstock/lava lamps/free love/flower power/naked hippies smoking pot in VW vans in the latter half of the decade when it was our popular sax playing “I did not inhale” (wink, wink) first black president in the WH with a D after his name keeping abortion legal.

    How much you want to bet the next time there’s a Democrat in the WH and this sort allegation pops up it’ll be the Age of Aquarius all over again?

    And I only mentioned Hillary in the context that she signs a lot of books. That doesn’t mean she actually knows or remembers whose book she signed last week. Let alone 40 years ago. I have no idea what kind if any relationship Moore had with BYN. I just know it wasn’t as the obsessed stalker harassing a young waitress every night at the Olde Hickory as Gloria Allred would have had us to believe. Trying to pass off the entire inscription as Roy Moore’s is only part of it. Too many former employees and regulars from 1977 have come out of the woodwork saying BYN never worked there, and Roy Moore never ate their, for me to believe a word that comes out of her mouth. I started to doubt her story when I read this part of it.

    [I]nstead of driving to the street he stopped the car and parked his car in between the dumpster and the back of the restaurant where there were no lights. The area was dark and deserted. I was alarmed and I immediately asked him what he was doing.

    Instead of answering my question, Mr. Moore reached over and began groping me, putting his hands on my breasts. I tried to open my car door to leave, but he reached over and locked it so I could not get out

    I sold my ’71 El Camino last summer, but I can guarantee you that with any American car built in the ’70s with manual locks would open the doors if you just pulled on the inside door handle. It didn’t matter if the door was locked or not. The locks just prevented people outside the car from getting in. They didn’t prevent people on the inside getting out.

    As far as the other girls at the time, I don’t know what to believe. BYN destroyed only her own credibility. I find the other women’s accusations credible in the sense of within the realm of possibility. But if you wish to define credible as “compelling belief,” no. Their accusations are not that compelling.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  348. poor Beverly

    this desperate hoax must be serving a purpose for her – a way to give her icky life some kind of value

    in her own sick way this is what passes for a self-esteem booster

    she feels important now in a way she’s never felt her whole life

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  349. Correct thread this time.

    I asked because the Democrats have their rationale for losing already packaged and ready to go: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/opinion/roy-moore-alabama-senate-voter-suppression.html

    nk (dbc370)

  350. From the other thread. Hoagie said:

    nk, I repeat-none of this has been about Roy Moore or Franken, or Weinstein or anybody else but to get Trump. This is the wind-up for the final putsch after the “Russia” debacle fails to overthrow the president. Have you not noticed how every anti-Moore argument also includes a reference to Trump?
    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 12/11/2017 @ 5:21 am

    We’re marching in step on this, Hoagie. I’ve been saying the same thing for weeks. And, in addition to Gilibrand, three other (D) Senators — Sanders, Booker and a nobody — have come out and said explicitly that now that that Franken has resigned (he actually has not), Trump should resign too. They’re clowns.

    nk (dbc370)

  351. My exact sentiments.

    mg (60b0f7) — 12/11/2017 @ 3:23 am

    In a few weeks it’ll be 2018. I think it is high-larious that 10 years after the, “If you don’t vote for Barack Obama you’re a racist” campaign such an article needs to be written.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  352. TIL Megyn Kelly moved to the Today Show. She’s got to be heartbroken that Matt Lauer was kicked out before she could get $20 million out of him, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  353. I was “woke” by the Al Sharpton/Tawana Brawley hustle. Where has everybody been?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  354. Apparently I didn’t make clearly enough a point that to me is screamingly obvious.

    When a bunch of other women who have remained silent, in fear of retaliation, for many years, suddenly gather the courage to come forward to tell their stories — and instead of sparking retaliation, their stories actually spark sympathy from the public and bad consequences for their abusers, that has the effect of encouraging others who’ve been silent to break their silence.

    In the Alabama special election, the initial primaries were on August 15, 2017, and in the GOP, the primary resulted in a runoff election between Luther Strange and Roy Moore on September 26, 2017.

    The NYT story that broke the Weinstein scandal was on October 5, 2017, and most recent sequelae (Al Franken’s announcement of his intent to resign) was only this past week. In between there were many other data points.

    Nelson came forward on November 13, 2017. By then, having won the runoff against Strange, Roy Moore had transmuted himself from a twice-disgraced but still mostly obscure state judge to a daily national headline on a very clear path toward a U.S. Senate seat and national prominence.

    I repeat: If you can’t see the significance of this national tsunami of previously silent women stepping forward to air long-withheld complaints, you’re kidding yourself. Yes, every accusation needs to be considered separately. That does not mean one must willfully blind oneself to the fact that there is indeed a tsunami taking place in our society.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  355. honey boo boo #1 did not inspire a bunch of other honey boo boos to come forward

    that’s the furthest thing from what happened here

    rather, the wapo organized all of it in one fell swoop

    and god only knows how as they’ve not been transparent about how this story was developed

    it was after this the incredibly sketchy Gloria Allred trotted out the lovely Beverly Nelson and her yearbook and a drawing someone made of her once at the state fair and she said she remembers Roy Moore wearing brown hush puppies on his feet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  356. 377. Beldar (fa637a) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:23 am

    When a bunch of other women who have remained silent, in fear of retaliation, for many years, suddenly gather the courage to come forward to tell their stories — and instead of sparking retaliation, their stories actually spark sympathy from the public and bad consequences for their abusers, that has the effect of encouraging others who’ve been silent to break their silence.

    I’m not sure how much retaliation is a consideration. A lot of these women are way past any fear of retaliation. What you also have is a desire – this happened in the case of Bill Cosby a few years ago – to go public in order to help that other woman.

    But to this we now add this #MeToo movement (which is the idea everybody should tell whatever happened to them of this nature, so we learn how big a problem it is because this is all just unfair) which caused a Los Angeles radio talk show figure to tweet about Al Franken, (even though she wasn’t angry at him any more) which then caused some others to back her up more or less, and incidents kept coming out.

    This does give an answer why it comes out now – it’s perceived as effective – but this is also a motive to invent. You could see it both ways.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  357. 378. happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:45 am

    honey boo boo #1 did not inspire a bunch of other honey boo boos to come forward

    that’s the furthest thing from what happened here

    rather, the wapo organized all of it in one fell swoop

    Four at once. Beverly Young Nelson was #5, and claims she was inspired by the Washington Post story, and contacted Gloria Allred who organized the whole thing, yearbook, drawing, statement and press conference and all, in four days.

    Well, she doesn’t put it that starkly.

    You’d think it would take longer. It was more than one month from the day the Harvey Weinstwin story broke till the Washington Post story about Roy Moore.

    You’d think maybe if BYN was inspired by the Wapo story, the first thing she;d do is contact the Washington Post also. Maybe Gloria Allred too, but also the WP.

    and god only knows how as they’ve not been transparent about how this story was developed

    Here is the story they tell:

    The Washington Post had a reporter in Alabama researching an unrelated sory about how Roy Moore personally benefited from his charity, and while there, they were tipped off about these women.

    The Washington Post says that they went to the women and the women did not come to them. Both the Washington Post and Leigh Corfman, had to repeatedly ask her to let her name be used. And she says, that she agreed if they found other women. (TODAY show interview)

    How would she know that other people even existed?

    OK, let’s say if this was she would agree if it happened more than once, or she wanted backup like the Cosby accusers.

    And then, lo and behold, she said on NBC, they found them.

    Except that they didn’t. Because the other three women only spoke about dates, and they were older than her, above the age of consent, and the most that happened was that they kissed, and he never took them to his home. One says he treated her to wine when she was still below the legal drinking age then in Alabama. (it later on got raised to 21 nationwide)

    By the way saying they found them would mean she wasn’t initially told by the Washhington Post that there were others. Funny how what she asked for, they had.

    Now the question is, how did Leigh Corfman’s story get out? If it was invented, it is very easy. And if we got an explanation it might sound like long chain of unbelievable coincidences.

    If true, it could be if someone Leigh Corfman had told, maybe years back, later told political operatives but the political operatives didn’t decide to use it until – it could be after Weinstein, and it could be after the Republican primary. Or it could be they were first told after Weinstein.

    But now suppose the political operatives were told only about the dating and they decided to had to invent stronger stories?

    The Washington Post did not reveal its intermediary source, and barely alluded to them, almost requiring us to assume their existence only by a process of deduction.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  358. and one of the things I am wondering is if the Washington Post actually had the name of Beverly Nelson Young in the beginning because being prepared the way she was would seem to me to take more than four days. If they had her name, I don’t think the Washington Post would report that.

    BYN herself claims she was inspired by the others which seem to say she didn’t know about them, and only decided to tell her story after the Washington Post published it on November 9.

    I don’t know. And it is also possible that she was included with the four original women, but maybe political operatives decided her story, which they maybe had a hand in inventing, or greatly changing, had credibility problems and they decided that she should come out only later and only through Gloria Allred and never contacted the Washington Post..

    I want to know who tipped off the Washington Post (and about how many women – were any stories rejected?) and how Leigh Corfman was outed, and why she never says anything about that.

    Sammy Finkelman (393233)

  359. it’s interesting how easy it is to sucker the lawyers among us with such a threadbare hoax while the non-lawyers pretty much all understand that this doesn’t pass the smell test

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  360. (with notable exceptions of course like the perspicacious Mr. nk)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  361. Thank you, happyfeet. But I’m not all that perspicacious. The law school I went to had a course on the rules of evidence and I took it.

    nk (dbc370)

  362. wouldst that our friend Mr. Romney had availed himself of such a course

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  363. @ Hoagie: I’ve been making anti-Roy Moore arguments since 2004, at which time I was quite happy pretending that Donald Trump didn’t exist. My arguments against him being elected to the U.S. Senate have everything to do with Roy Moore and not a damned thing to do with Donald Trump.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  364. Indeed, I recall giving Trump explicit credit in comments here for supporting Strange over Moore during the GOP primary for this special election, and I haven’t taken Trump to task here or anywhere else for his obvious concession to political expediency in supporting Moore against Doug Jones, and I’ll give Trump further credit for being restrained in his support of Moore — e.g., I credit Trump for not attacking Moore’s accusers in the way many commenters here on this blog are doing, and for not making personal appearances with Moore on the brink of the election.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  365. Donald Trump didn’t even make a personal appearance in the state!

    He held a rally in Pensacola, Florida .

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  366. In the rally, Donald Trump did attack one of the accusers.

    The New York Times doesn’t see fit to report in the text of the story the nature of the attack, nor even the name of the accuser, but because the New York Times mentions her lawyer, we can deduce it was Beverly Young Nelson. In the online version, the New York Times also links to another story it ran , making it clear it is referring to the subject of this post – that Beverly Young Nelson said she wrote part of the yearbook inscription.

    (I think the reason that this, and this alone, was specifically mentioned, is that Donald trump is trying to be very careful – he doesn’t know the truth, and he’s not going to commit himself, except where it seems to be hard to disagree.)

    Here is the excerpt from the story where Trump makes the attack:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/us/politics/trump-moore-florida-alabama.html?_r=0


    Mr. Trump was about 45 minutes into his speech, though, before he even mentioned Mr. Moore. But when prompted to do so by a man in the crowd, the president quickly obliged.

    “This guy’s screaming, ‘We want Roy Moore,’” Mr. Trump said. “He’s right. How many people here are from the great state of Alabama?”

    Many cheered.

    The president also highlighted a discrepancy in the story of one Mr. Moore’s accusers and said voters should be wary of her lawyer, Gloria Allred.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  367. Trump’s line of argument otherwise went:

    “The future of this country cannot afford to lose a seat in the very, very close United States Senate,” Mr. Trump said.

    “We can’t afford to have a liberal Democrat who is completely controlled by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. His name is Jones and he’s their total puppet,” a reference to Mr. Moore’s Democratic opponent, Doug Jones.

    “We need somebody in that Senate seat who will vote for our Make America Great Again agenda,” the president said, adding, “So get out and vote for Roy Moore.”

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  368. Trump does not stick his neck out for anybody. He’s strictly a “What’s in it for me, and what have you done for me, lately?” kind of guy. So, yeah, the only reason he’s endorsing Moore is because he thinks Moore will be on his side in the Senate.

    Truthfully, Trump does not owe Moore anything. Moore endorsed Cruz in the primary. On the other hand, he turned ingrate towards Sessions who did endorse him.

    Like the nuclear war which Trump is leading us into with North Korea, the Democrats picked a tsunami to bring Trump down which will have the effect of a lot of collateral damage. No man will be safe if they succeed in imposing their contrived and chimerical new consciousness of “sexual harassment”. So we’re kind of stuck defending the orange-skinned buffoon (and Moore) in order to defend ourselves. You know … “First they came for the …”. Like that.

    nk (dbc370)

  369. When a bunch of other women who have remained silent, in fear of retaliation, for many years, suddenly gather the courage to come forward to tell their stories — and instead of sparking retaliation, their stories actually spark sympathy from the public and bad consequences for their abusers, that has the effect of encouraging others who’ve been silent to break their silence.

    It was never the public they had to worry about, was it? That was just as true in the 1960s as it is today. Had the Praetorian guard media reported honestly about what a moral monster that serial abuser JFK was, or a pig his brother Teddy was, I guarantee you the Kennedy name would have been destroyed.

    The people who they have to worry about are still around. But again, we’re not talking about the general public. We never have been talking about the general public.

    I repeat: If you can’t see the significance of this national tsunami of previously silent women stepping forward to air long-withheld complaints, you’re kidding yourself. Yes, every accusation needs to be considered separately. That does not mean one must willfully blind oneself to the fact that there is indeed a tsunami taking place in our society.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:23 am

    Sorry, Beldar. That would make this the second “Year of the Woman” I’ve lived through since my original post-Tailhook “Year of the Woman” in 1992 when I was told exactly the same thing about the significance of it all.

    That original tidal wave was followed by the need to protect Bill Clinton, the only man standing between the girls of feminism and Roe v. Wade getting overturned if he were impeached. So all of a sudden it was time for all the girls to put on their kneepads, stand by their man, and defend him.

    I keep reading in the news that Franken resigned. Yet, he’s still in the Senate. So he only made a resignation speech about retiring in a “few weeks.” To paraphrase the previously mentioned Billy Jeff, what’s the definition of a few? And a lot of feminists are making the same calculation about Franken as they did back in the ’90s about Clinton. The tide comes in, the tide goes out.

    I’m a bit jaded.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  370. The day has arrived…whats the spread and are to post preditions, I’ll go with the beat, Moore 52, Jones 46 nulls 2.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  371. Moore with between 63% and 65% of the vote.

    Even though he is an evil person who likes the Ten Commandments and opposes homosexuality to the point of losing his job as chief justice of his state’s supreme court twice because of those depraved views.

    nk (dbc370)

  372. Both the primary, 30 million! (Money doesn’t grow on trees) and the dems doubling down tosoff Gangnam
    Style, is a ridiculous expense

    narciso (d1f714)

  373. It also speaks to the towel thrown in by natl party inthe non-Chicago midwest/rust belt, which would seem to be lower fruit. But it’s also a testament to the class of 2010.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)


  374. I keep reading in the news that Franken resigned. Yet, he’s still in the Senate. So he only made a resignation speech about retiring in a “few weeks.”

    Like I said in another link, Franken only plans to resign of Roy Moore loses. Otherwise he stays on with the all new “Roy Moore Defense”. He will then “work tirelessly to bring Trump to justice for his raping and pillaging of children and the handicapped”. He’ll “donate” (taxpayer money wink, wink) to a Women’s Charity and make speeches at Planned Parenthood as his contrition. Nicely played, Al, nicely played.

    I can’t wait to see the next big bombshell about Trump after Moore wins. The left’s only chance now for 2018 is to run Michele “Eva Peron” Obama as their banana republic candidate.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  375. Id have actually respected his position more if it was an explicit conditional “if you elect Doug Jones, I will resign”. But I sure as hell would have Bubba and Leroy standing next to his seat in the chambers as soon as they were lining up Jones to be sworn in.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  376. But in Alabama this matters more than Moore:
    https://youtu.be/RTN9iLBv0dU

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  377. There’s nothing to respect about Franken. Trump may be clownish, but Franken is a professional clown in the strictest sense of the term. But look at the paragons of profaned purity the moral high grounders have trotted out — a couple of p**n posers. It’s all so ridiculous.

    nk (dbc370)

  378. There’s an Op-ed article in the New York Times today by Zephyr Teachout (real name) who ran in the Democratic primary for Governor against Andrew Cuomo in 2014 from a left wing position, and then tried to get elected to Congress from an upstate district she moved into, that says that, while she cares passionately about #MeToo, she is not convinced Al Franken shold resign.

    She says we need due process and proportional punishment. Elections are different and people should take into account the accusations against Roy Moore. But if he elected, he should get the same kind of ethics investigation that she recommends for Al Franken. When it comes to a sitting lawmaker, our representatives should act judiciously. And the ethics investigation of Al Franken should run its course and not be called off because of a resignation. Then we will know whether his planned resignation was warranted.

    She says that while the current method of investigating complaints (by Congress) is opaque, takes too long, and hasn’t worked to protect women and men from harassment, the current alternative of “off with his head”, regardless of the nature of the accusation, is too quick, too vulnerable to the passions of the moment, and too easily subject to political manipulation.

    What Congress should do, she says, is have an independent arbiter (presumably with a pro-Democrat bias – what do you think?) that is, something like a Government Accountability Office with “trained experts.” There should be clearly understood mechanisms for reporting and a timetable set for dealing with the complaints, and both the accuser and the accused should be able to submit questions and have free access to lawyers and trained advocates.

    And the arbiter could recommend various things other than a call to resign, like censure or a range of other responses tailored to the findings.

    The New York Times does not mention any of his electoral history but only that she is an associate professor of law at Fordham University in the Bronx, and is the author of a book entitled “Corruption in America: From Benjamin Franklin’s Snuff Box to Citizens United.”

    (Citizens United is the organization Hillary Clinton tried to shut up, and the name of a court case involving it that she vowed to only appoint Supreme Court justices who would vote to overturn the decision.)

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  379. Premptive..

    All counties employing digital ballot scanners in the Dec. 12, 2017 election are hereby ordered to set their voting machines to save all processed images in order to preserve all digital ballot images,” Montgomery County Circuit Judge Roman Ashley Shaul wrote in the order.

    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/judge_orders_alabama_not_to_de.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (000380)

  380. The whole event was lousy with pestiferous Bible-banging. Both reality and American history were fed into individual woodchippers. The theme of the night’s devotions was that Nobody Comes Into Alabama And Tells Us How To Vote. This theme was emphasized by the night’s roster of speakers, which included: a carbuncled vandal from Virginia (Steve Bannon); a failed congressional candidate from Wisconsin (Paul Nehlen); a disgraced sheriff from Wisconsin (David Clarke, Jr.), and a sitting congressman from Texas (Louie Gohmert). They all took turns bashing all the rank outsiders who came into Alabama to campaign for Doug Jones, the Democratic nominee.

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14415471/roy-moore-last-rally/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (000380)

  381. Citizens United is the organization Hillary Clinton tried to shut up,

    They’re shameless, Sammy. If chutzpah was all it took, Democrats would control all three branches of government. They don’t care what they say. They throw it against the wall, and see if it sticks. If it doesn’t stick, they throw something else. If it does stick, they throw something else to see if that sticks, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  382. ABBB, that would have been a great place to send Borat or Ali G.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  383. nk 406,

    How is that different from Trump’s methods? Fortunately his goals aren’t the same but his methods seem the same to me.

    DRJ (15874d)

  384. President Trump wants to cut spending but Congress won’t let him

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  385. Now we get to see if leftist, Goebbels policies work and you’re able to smear a man in perpetuity to enforce your agenda.

    NJRob (b00189)

  386. I can’t wait to see the next big bombshell about Trump after Moore wins. The left’s only chance now for 2018 is to run Michele “Eva Peron” Obama as their banana republic candidate.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 12/12/2017 @ 8:33 am

    I was shocked she didn’t run last year. I fully expect her to run in 2020 with the promise to punish those that tried to Make America Great Again.

    NJRob (b00189)

  387. i hope Mr. Moore wins so perverted trash like Mitt “no proof no problem” Romney is discredited forever Mr. Rob

    that would be justice plus I wanna see the look on stupid Beverly’s stupid lying face

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  388. this is why I don’t have any tattoos and i love america

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  389. Got it. You don’t read links or care about responding fairly. I guess that makes you another Harry Reid.

    DRJ (15874d)

  390. Trump doesn’t care about spending, hf. His budget director wants even more deficit.

    DRJ (15874d)

  391. Tribalism doesn’t work, hf.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2017 @ 10:49 am

    Empires don’t work DRJ.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/akayed-ullah-nyc-explosion-suspect-identified-27-year-old-brooklyn-n828361

    When you hold diversity as the goal versus assimilation, you destroy the nation.

    The left seeks to destroy the nation.

    NJRob (b00189)

  392. I agree, DRJ. Trump is even worse. (Or better at it, depending on your point of view.) He is, after all, a New York Democrat.

    Yes, his goal are not the same. They are only his own self-aggrandizement. The Democrats want to transform the country. With themselves in charge for perpetuity, of course.

    I don’t like being told “it’s raining” by either of them. But right now it’s the Democrats pouring down on across the Yalu River.

    nk (dbc370)

  393. How does one explain the iron grip the democrats have had fir generations, drj how long were democrats yellow dog in Texas, like I pointed out in the jury agent montoya is as impartial as say John Brendan.

    narciso (d1f714)

  394. pouring down on *us*

    nk (dbc370)

  395. As salvo zizek, put it trump is a sane liberal, probably where jfk might have ended up, he was pro military, pro law enforcement pro economic growth, but personally sentimental on justice issues, hated and invanka lean more in that direction.

    narciso (d1f714)

  396. Loved your “Yalu River” metaphor, nk. I look forward to using it. A good metaphor makes one visualize it and that’s what I did. I visualized all those dumbflucks in the video from your #408 comment pouring across the Potomac.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  397. The right is doing a good job destroying values, NJRob. Don’t forget them.

    narciso, historically, most people were busy trying to feed, clothe and shelter their families without having time to worry about politics. We are fortunate to have so much leisure time now, and the tools to find out what is happening in the political world. And we are seeing more political turnover, aren’t we?

    DRJ (15874d)

  398. ABBB

    I thought of an item for your country concert “checklist”

    Pumped Up Kicks

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  399. The Democrats want to change the country, nk, but so do I. So does Ted Cruz. Trump just wants to profit from it, at any cost. If he really cared about changing it, then he would have used his powerful Twitter tweets to target ObamaCare and other Obama legacies. Instead he targets people who offend him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  400. Thank you, Hoagie. When I was little, one of my fellow villagers was a Korean War veteran. He lent me his M1 Bayonet to wear at a school play where I played a janissary.

    nk (dbc370)

  401. He would love to be Kennedy in Camelot, narciso. I bet he even thinks he has great hair.

    DRJ (15874d)

  402. That doesn’t answer the question. How is the right destroying values, I know capitalism does creative destruction, as schumpeter put it. Peddlers of the dossier pep like rick Wilson, high toned sanctimony by sass, who doesn’t realize the left is using our own benchmarks against us?

    The left despises the military, except when it picks Kerry or Leland as their standardbearer.

    narciso (d1f714)

  403. Patrick Swaze: So who’s on our side?

    Powers Boothe: 800,000 screaming Chinamen.

    Patrick Swaze: I thought there were a billion?

    Powers Boothe: There were.

    Red Dawn

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  404. How is the right destroying values? Really?

    DRJ (15874d)

  405. Let’s face it, the leftists are unrelenting and unrepentant. No matter how many American cities their policies destroy they refuse to admit it, refuse to change their policies and move on blindly as if nothing happened. Sadly, they seem to get away with it. Right now they are engaged in doing to Hispanics and immigrants the same dastardly things they did to negroes in America: make them slaves dependent on the welfare state. Just like the leftists didn’t learn from Cuba so they embarked on Venezuela as the newest nation to go allshit™ from leftism and end up screwed. Or perhaps total destruction of civilization is their actual goal. What else could explain how they take over cities and nations and reduce them to Detroit and Venezuela?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  406. Exactly which institutionalized policies and goals of the right are destroying values? And why is my #433 in moderation? What’d I say?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  407. Trump has a poor understanding or regard for the Constitution and morality isn’t his favorite topic. For example, he introduced the concept of pussy grabbing to America, and he used his position as owner to go backstage to ogle naked beauty pageant contestants. Then there is his marital history and …Plus he is dragging the rest of the GOP with him. Do we really have to debate this?

    DRJ (15874d)

  408. 431, no flame or spark emoji for effect?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  409. @435

    When I glow blue there are either Uruk-hai around or I’m on a computer. Not sure how the emoji game works on that platform.

    Pinandpuller (630c09)

  410. Yeah, just wondering b/c when Boothe uttered that rejoinder he threw something in the campfire to tell the audience without telling the audience what happened.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  411. Ituncuated for effect,

    narciso (d1f714)

  412. ABBB, that would have been a great place to send Borat or Ali G.

    Or Larry David. But I would like Dennis Miller to get that gig as well. The squirming alone would be worth a dollar to see.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  413. Al Franken is probably waiting until a god job offer materializes.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  414. That job’s taken, Sammy.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  415. I see, DRJ. You said “the right” is destroying values. You mean Trump is, not “the right”. Trump is not the right any more than comrade Ben! is the left. In fact, Trump isn’t a rightist at all. He spent his entire adult life until two years ago or so as a New York Democrat, rubbing elbows with Cuomo’s, Clintons, and any other leftist millionaire/billionaire elitist that could and would help him build his gaudy buildings. The only people to whom Trump is “the right” are so far left Stalin seems like a Republican. Trump is neither right nor left, he’s all over the place depending on the topic, the temperature, the time of day and his sugar level. Oh, and if he took a poop today. Regularity is important at Trump’s age.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  416. Yeah, just wondering b/c when Boothe uttered that rejoinder he threw something in the campfire to tell the audience without telling the audience what happened.
    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/12/2017 @ 11:55 am

    Two of my favorite movies as you can tell: Road House and Red Dawn.

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  417. The GOP has bowed down to Trump, Hoagie. The few that haven’t (like Corker, Sasse, Flake) have been ostracized or are quitting their positions. Trump is the Right now and it’s sad how quickly and completely it/they caved.

    DRJ (15874d)

  418. the reason they bow is cause he’s so nice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  419. They bow down because they fear Trump. He is a bully.

    DRJ (15874d)

  420. Trump is also careless but that’s a different topic.

    DRJ (15874d)

  421. He’s a bully but his go around is coming back around.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  422. just admit it you didn’t know the real reason they bow did you (cause he’s a sweetie)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  423. 255. Q! (86710c) — 12/9/2017 @ 11:18 am

    that section of the inscription (and perhaps as far back as the “D.A.”) is an *annotation* – no doubt made at the time by Nelson.

    The DA could not have been written at the time, or any time, really, except now, in 2017, for purposes of lying about Roy Moore, because the “DA” does not stand for “District Attorney” but Delbra Adams, who, like some secretaries, used to sign her boss’ name to some documents, but to distinguish it from a real signature, used to add her initials.

    She was not hired by Roy Moore until about 1990. She was hired as a legal secretary when he was in partnership with Kathleen Warren, and followed him into judicial office, ad stayed with him until his first dismissal as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court in 2003.

    The misshapen letters “DA” would have made no sense at all in 1977.

    We do have a coincidence that it can seem to stand for DA, and it seems like this piece of luck – and perhaps even the luck of having a genuine signature of Roy Moore’s in her possession, but I have strong doubts that’s even a partial explanation of the yearbook signature, was woven into her story.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)


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