Patterico's Pontifications

10/23/2017

Sgt. Johnson’s Widow: Congresswoman’s Account Was Not “Fabricated”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:10 am

I figured (and hoped) we were done with this, but both Trump and Big Media evidently want it to continue. So here we are.

Here’s Myeshia Johnson’s interview with George Snuffleupagus:

Ms. Johnson asked for the call to be put on speaker so her aunt and uncle could hear. She did not like Trump’s tone. She said that he said: “He knew what he signed up for, but it hurts anyways.” She said of Trump: “I heard him stumbling on trying to remember my husband’s name.” She said the only way he could remember her husband’s name was because his file was in front of him. (Trump told her he had the file in front of him.) She said the call made her very upset. “It made me cry even worse.”

She said of Rep. Wilson: “She’s been in our family since we were little kids.” Her uncle in law had been Ms. Wilson’s elementary school principal (I’m assuming she means Ms. Wilson was his principal), and her husband had been in her 5000 Role Model program. As for what funny hat Congresswoman Frederica Wilson said about the call, Ms. Johnson said:

Whatever Miss Wilson said was not fabricated. What she said was 100% correct. It was Master Sgt. Neil, me, my aunt, and uncle, and the driver, and Ms. Wilson in the car. The phone was on speaker phone. Why would we fabricate something like that?

Asked whether she had anything more to say to Trump, she said no.

But Trump has more to say!

It is political genius to directly contradict the widow’s account. Eight-dimensional chess? Nah. Twenty-dimensional, at least!

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

309 Responses to “Sgt. Johnson’s Widow: Congresswoman’s Account Was Not “Fabricated””

  1. Trump obviously thinks this fight with a black family and Congresswoman polls well with his base, because this is at least his third tweet about it since Friday. With any luck, we can still be talking about this next month.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. And this began with virtue signaling Greg popovich, spreading more heat then light, significantly we have practically nothing about the operation itself in tango tango, because trump evil, and it served to hide the uranium tenez scandal. See how media narratives work. Re Sanford and sheehan.

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. To me, the biggest aspect of this story is not Trump the Heartless Monster, but all the lies and misstatements coming out of the administration — and the failure to apologize.

    Trump lied about the Congresswoman’s version of the call being “fabricated.” That is clear. I’m willing to believe he had good intentions, but the word “fabricated” was just a lie. No apology for saying it was

    Gen Kelly misstated (I won’t say lied about) the facts regarding the dedication of the FBI building. He has refused to apologize or clarify, instead doubling down with some claptrap about how his account was based on what many people heard afterwards — when he had clearly been referring to a speech in his presser.

    I believe Trump’s statement that he never stumbled over Johnson’s name is a lie. I cannot see why the widow would lie. I can see why Trump would lie, and he has a long history of lies.

    Lying and refusing to apologize is par for the course for Trump, but in this context it’s particularly repulsive.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  4. He didn’t want to do it, his heart wasn’t it in it, so he messed it up.
    — Donnie, give Aunt Bertha a nice hug and kiss.
    — Aw, do I have to?
    — Donnie!
    — Aw, okay.

    Understandable in a child, not excusable in a President. When Kelly advised him not to do it, it was not because it’s a bad idea generally. It was a bad idea for Trump.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. ugh she’s just starting to gross me out now

    pretty clear she just wants to run up that gofundme

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. Because stephanopoulos is going to ask hard question, seriously:

    https://www.voanews.com/a/new-details-emerge-about-attack-that-killed-us-soldiers-in-niger/4080617.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  7. Her uncle in law had been Ms. Wilson’s elementary school principal

    srsly?

    this wilson chick is 74 years old

    who has a lifelong relationship with their elementary school principal and becomes part of his family

    that’s not a thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. There are some similarities with the mogadishu operation in 1993, part of mission creep from the original deployment, back then we were tied to the Pakistani peacekedoers actions.

    narciso (d1f714)

  9. Self-inflicted wound on Mr. President’s part.

    “I tried to comfort and apparently I only intruded on Sgt. Johnson’s family’s grief. God bless Sgt. Johnson’s memory and his family.”

    “But, Mr. President, Mr. President ….”

    “That’s all.” [Optional: “The Democrats can play politics with our soldiers’ death, I won’t join their game.”]

    You may laugh now.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. The phone was on speaker phone. Why would we fabricate something like that?

    if they were all sitting there on speaker then sparklepony was lying when she said she was unable to speak to President Trump

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. Self-inflicted wound on Mr. President’s part.

    “I tried to comfort and apparently I only intruded on Sgt. Johnson’s family’s grief. God bless Sgt. Johnson’s memory and his family.”

    “But, Mr. President, Mr. President ….”

    “That’s all.” [Optional: “The Democrats can play politics with our soldiers’ death, I won’t join their game.”]

    You may laugh now.

    LOL. Oh by the way, remember this?

    “The Democrats, the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em,” the former head of Breitbart News told The American Prospect in an interview. “I want them to talk about racism every day.”

    “If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats,” he added.

    Would it be too cynical of me to think that Trump considers it a bonus that the people he’s fighting with (the Congresswoman in particular) are not just Democrats (at least we know the Congresswoman is) but also black?

    Because that’s what I think.

    I think the same about the NFL.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  12. All President Trump had to say (if he was compelled to say something since he couldn’t keep his damn mouth shut), was:

    I’m very sorry for Mrs. Johnson’s loss. As the President, she has my continued prayers and sympathies. Her husband was an extraordinary man who served his country well.

    Or, better yet, he could have been very grown-up about it, and recognized her pain, and carried that burden for her, by being gracious, and saying:

    I’m sorry for any further hurt my phone call may have caused. It was not my intent to do anything other than be respectful. My continued prayers and sympathies for Mrs. Johnson and her family.

    But because he is but a self-centered child, he got defensive and had to have the last word about it. He needs to learn to apologize. His people need to drill into him how important optics are when you sit in the Oval Office.

    p.s. Everyone one of us would have been shaming Obama if he had behaved in this same manner. And rightfully so.

    Dana (023079)

  13. The Empty Suit has to have enablers.

    Who are these people?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  14. Note that I’m not saying Trump is racist.

    I am saying that Trump has calculated that his supporters are.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  15. Would it be too cynical of me to think that Trump considers it a bonus…?

    No. Not at all. That’s just about the perfect quantum of cynicism -slash- grip on reality.

    Q! (86710c)

  16. Greetings:

    if I remember correctly, Sgt. Johnson was the last Green Beret identified after the ambush in Niger. As an indicator of the sorry state into which our country has fallen, when I read his name “La David”, what came came immediately to my mind was “This should be interesting.”

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  17. As if fredericka and the NFL were not at the same game,

    narciso (d1f714)

  18. The President sent the tweet at 5:30 a.m., well before the work day begins for most people. There was no one there to strongly advise him to leave it alone or to simply make an apology so this could story could drop off the radar. But he’s an adult – why should he need a handler to tell him what reasonable grown-ups have already learned – even those who will never, ever step foot in the White House?

    Dana (023079)

  19. Note that I’m not saying Trump is racist. [Para.] I am saying that Trump has calculated that his supporters are.

    Noted. And clearly so. Trump may or may not be a racist – but he is worse than one. He’s a race-baiter.

    Q! (86710c)

  20. I doubt the Accellerants are WH staff.

    He gets his pyromania from Tweets.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  21. Racists usually have conviction. He’s an empty character.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  22. The operation, raises some interesting question, they couldnt call up a drone from
    agadez, the neatest airbase, how reliable are local military and tribal leaders

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. who considers which what a bonus?

    $696,381

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  24. Gofund has a Trump pledge for 10 bucks. Don’t spend it yet.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  25. that was me!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. She said the only way he could remember her husband’s name was because his file was in front of him.

    Does that mean he actually did say his name? And not just “Your Guy?”

    Did he push the piece of paper aside and then forget the name?

    I know there are politicians, and reader’s of Dale Carnegie, who go out of their way to remember
    names, but really, is his a criticism?

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)

  27. it made her cry even worse Mr. Finkelman

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  28. I agree, Patterico. Trump knows very well what flavor of red meat the 13.6 million who gave him the primary like.

    He may also be taking advantage of the NFL players, but that is a self-inflicted wound on their part, too. They should have chosen a different form of protest than disrespecting the National Anthem.

    They are correct that “You may be a star quarterback, earning millions, with tens of thousands of fans and with your name and face all over the media but, boy, when a white cop pulls you over at 2:00 am, you are still a ni**er”, and they should do all they can to change that. But spitting on the flag (as many saw it — as I see it) was not going to make them any friends.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. Why would we fabricate something like that?

    The answer could be here:

    She said of Rep. Wilson: “She’s been in our family since we were little kids.”

    This wouldn’t be the first time the Democrat party has used the family of the military.

    I don’t think this is as clear as Patterico presents it to be that one side is lying and has no motive.

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  30. 29

    Hmm. But the spots on our Hyena don’t change so it seems credible, no?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  31. So where are we now?

    1) The widow seems to have disconfirmed the claim made by the Congresswoman that she said he said “Your Guy.” Now she’s saying he had to look at the paper to see what the name was. Which would make the Congresswoman into a liar the same way Kelly made Trump into a liar or maybe more so. Of course Kelly’s got his own problem with the congresswoman’s speech in 2015, which he may have tuned out on.

    2) And Trump is now denying that he ever was at a loss for the name, not even once. So that would mean it was fabricated.

    Not TOTALLY fabricated though, because he seems to have said, or Kelly seems to have acknowledged that he said, that the soldier knew what he was signing up for or words to that effect.

    Now maybe that’s an argument between Trump and Kelly. Maybe neither one of them remembers exactly what was said.

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)

  32. Would it be too cynical of me to think that Trump considers it a bonus that the people he’s fighting with (the Congresswoman in particular) are not just Democrats (at least we know the Congresswoman is) but also black?

    *************

    Forget that’s she is black for a moment.

    Are there other things about her?

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  33. She–meaning–the Congresswoman.

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  34. Let’s face it, it’s important to keep up the morale of the troops — no, not the real troops, the 13.6 million. They’re already disheartened enough that, after ten months, there are still Muslims and Mexicans in America, and that felons, addicts, wife-beaters, and the mentally disabled can still not own machine guns bought with an EBT card.

    nk (dbc370)

  35. Wilson… like a Rhinstone Cowpie…

    Why is this not covered by “mainstream media”, aka Democrat Operatives With Bylines?

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/10/is_uranium_one_the_final_nail_in_israels_coffin.html

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  36. It’s no surprise your only defense for Trumps anthropomorphic facade. BLACK LIES, ‘Massa’!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  37. That doesn’t make it better, Hoagie. It’s bad enough that your neighbor might kill you, without worrying that the police might too.

    nk (dbc370)

  38. It’s no surprise your only defense for Trumps anthropomorphic facade. BLACK LIES, ‘Massa’!
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 10/23/2017 @ 8:23 am

    **********

    How to spot a Liberal.^

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  39. I said nothing about race.

    I did say the Democrats manipulate and use the war dead, their families and fubnerals–it’s weird as hell.

    See Ted Kennedy’s funeral or Wellstone’s.

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  40. How to spot a racial dog-whistle ^

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  41. Your neighbor will be prosecuted for killing you. Especially if he’s black. The police? Not so much.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  42. You didn’t say race

    Not so far as you might notice.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  43. How to spot a racial dog-whistle ^
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 10/23/2017 @ 8:31 am

    ***************

    And that’s how you let Trump win the Presidency. Well–that–and going with Hillary.

    Of course the only viable (LOL!) alternative ended up being Bernie…

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  44. “The many questions surrounding the death of American service members in Niger show the urgent need to have a public discussion about the current extent of our military operations around the world,” Kaine said. “For sixteen years, Congress has remained largely silent on this issue, allowing administrations to go to war anywhere, anytime.”
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/senators-are-stunned-to-discover-we-have-1000-troops-in-niger

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  45. Y’all need a new whistle..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  46. 40… Teddy Kennedy was most definitely teh lion of the Senate… he mated when he felt like it and he killed with no regrets.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  47. If they wouldn’t spend half of every day (literally) at fundraisers for their re-election or for money to buy committee memberships with (for real), they might be less stunned to find out what the government they’re supposed to be at the head of is doing.

    nk (dbc370)

  48. the urgent need to have a public discussion about the current extent of our military operations around the world

    the only way this could possibly be urgent is if useless sleazy-ass war hero John McCain were doing a crappy job of heading up the Armed Services Committee

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. oh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. “I am saying that Trump has calculated that his supporters are.”

    Patterico,

    I doubt his perception of his marks is weighted more heavily towards racism than it is towards stupidity. Certainly, race is currently one of the most simple markers to manipulate, whether by progressives pushing millionaire black numbskulls to act against self interest or by Trump playing his rubes like a cheap fiddle but in both instances the defining characteristic is the targets position in the center of the left side of the bell curve.

    Rick Ballard (6a5693)

  51. 2. narciso (d1f714) — 10/23/2017 @ 7:17 am

    significantly we have practically nothing about the operation itself in tango tango, because trump evil,

    Trump evil, or Trump can do nothing right, is an important trope to the Democrats, so they are not even saying Benghazi very much, although the Congresswoman did..

    But the New York Times had a story about this on Saturday. It started on the front page, on the column to the left of the lead story, about the video disproving the story Kelly told about “Lawmaker” It’s Tongo Tongo, by the way, which you may need for Internet searches.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/world/africa/niger-ambush-conflicting-accounts.html

    There aren’t really many contradictions between American and Nigerien officials, although there are some unknowns.

    A group of American and Nigerien (that’s from French speaking Niger, not Nigeria) soldiers were on what was probably a reconnaissance patrol because they had received disinformation (any fool would have to realize now this was disinformation) that the leader of one of the armed Islamic groups they were following used to periodically come in person to the village of Tongo Tongo in Niger, from Mali, where they were based, for resupply of food and fuel.

    On the way there, they saw men on motorbikes. Motorbikes are used by terrorists for assassination in Pakistan and they are also used as vehicles in Niger – so much so that the government of Niger had recently banned the use of bikes in the area. So they knew they almost certainly had to be from one of the terrorist groups in Mali.

    The Nigerien official claimed they and the Americans chased the men on motorbikes till they crossed over to Mali. American officials say Americans didn’t pursue them. If they did they would have needed approval from either a subcommand in Chad (one of the countries now on Trump’s all citizens banned from entry into the U.S. list, although apparently there are numerous American soldiers there) or a task force commander in Germany (where the United States Africa command is based)

    Whether or not any Americans went along with the Nigerien soldiers to the border with Mali, they all went to the village of Tongo Tongo to question officials. The village chief (they at least now think) seemed to be stalling the service members, they think to keep them there longer. He’s since been arrested by Nigerien officials. There area few other people in custody as well being questioned by intelligence officials (from what country or countries?)

    The drive back to base from Tongo Tongo takes two hours. But less than five minutes after they left the village, they were surrounded and ambushed.

    They were outnumbered two to one, about 100 men to 50. The insurgents were on motorbikes – but two or three to a motorbike – and also in about 10 sports utility vehicles

    The soldiers in the convoy had military vehicles and some Land Cruisers from the American embassy.

    The New York Times doesn’t have this part of the story, but actually they were ambushed twice. The insurgents retreated and they thought it was over and then they came back for more. Just like Benghazi. It was in the second ambush that Sgt. La David T. Johnson was killed, because the land Cruiser he was in got stuck in the mud.

    The whole firefight, or series of firefights, lasted two to three hours. French helicopters arrived to evacuate the dead and wounded as well as (some, all?) of the other soldiers.

    Because La David’s Johnson’s land cruiser was separated from the others, it was missed by the French helicopters. A bunch had actually gotten separated and this one apparently got separated from the ones that got separated and was initially missed. Or he was.

    We have, not from the NYT, the story about the GPS ping, and how they thought maybe he was alive, and how the signal faded and eventually stopped and how he was eventually found after two days when they determined he couldn’t have survived the initial firefight.

    The American and Nigerien officials believe the group that attacked them was affiliated with Adnan Abou Walid al-Sahraoui (an obvious non de guerre) who had pledged loyalty to Islamic State (ISIS), but they are not certain about if it was them. They probably have no idea really of the Order of Battle.

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)


  52. 14.Note that I’m not saying Trump is racist.

    I am saying that Trump has calculated that his supporters are.
    Patterico (115b1f) — 10/23/2017 @ 7:47 am

    My question is do you think Trumps supporters are racists, Patterico? I understand the bar for being a racist is so low just not being black makes us one but do you think the reason people support Trump is because they’re racists or because of some other more nebulous reason that neither you or the Democrats nor the left, or media or celebrities or NLF millionaires have yet to discover?

    I ask because I don’t know myself, my white privilege has me confused.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  53. There was a study in Washington, D.C. where half the cops (in the study) were given body cameras and half were not.

    They found no (statistically significant I suppose) difference in the use of force or the number of complaints/

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558832090/body-cam-study-shows-no-effect-on-police-use-of-force-or-citizen-complaints

    That’s because they weren’t doing anything wrong in the first place!

    But is that what the authors of the stidy are going to conclude?

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)

  54. “My question is do you think Trumps supporters are racists, Patterico?”

    – Rev. Hoagie

    I can’t speak for Patterico, obviously, but I think a lot of them are. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  55. i think a lot of hillary supporters be all racist cause of how barack obama kick her butt so bad and he’s the first black president (his dad was black) and she’s never gonna be president partly cause of him

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. Trump doesn’t use racism. His administration is always trying to scare people about illegal immigrants. Who mostly aren’t black.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/us/wildfire-immigrant-breitbart.html

    https://www.snopes.com/california-fires-drug-cartels-marijuana-farms/

    Early this week, Sheriff Rob Giordano of Sonoma County was forced to debunk false reports spread by conservative media that his office had arrested an undocumented immigrant for starting the deadly California wildfires.

    And that was before Immigration and Customs Enforcement got involved.

    The federal agency’s acting director, Thomas D. Homan, on Wednesday accused Sheriff Giordano’s office of refusing to respond to federal requests about the immigrant, Jesus Fabian Gonzalez, leaving the community “vulnerable to dangerous individuals and preventable crimes.”

    That, Sheriff Giordano said, was “inaccurate,” “inflammatory,” and was a distraction for local authorities responding to a major natural disaster….

    …The dispute stems from the arrest on Sunday of Mr. Gonzalez, who had started a fire in the local park where he often sleeps, Mr. Giordano said.

    The fire, which Mr. Gonzalez said he started to keep warm, threatened no structures and was quickly put out, the sheriff said.

    One fire was started by an illegal immigrant = all fires were started by an illegal immigrants and illegal immigrants are the kind of eople who start fires = let’s get rid of all illegal immigants.

    Democrats, however, know that racism is in disfavor, while prejudice against illegal aliens is not really in disfavor, so everything becomes racism and not what it really is.

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)

  57. Trump makes it okay to be racist, and that’s a f***ing fact. He brought the alt.right out of the woodwork. How many of Kevin Williamson’s white underclass take the bait? I’m with Rick Ballard on this: How many are the stupid ones?

    nk (dbc370)

  58. All this business about illegal immigrants being criminals is not racism, it is geographicalism, and to the extent it could degenerate into racism, it’s not anti-black racism.

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)

  59. illegal immigrants *are* criminals

    it’s just part of the package Mr. Finkelman

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  60. I think a lot of Trump’s supporters are resentful and that can look like racism, because resentment is the root of both racism and economic anxiety.

    DRJ (15874d)

  61. By the way, I disagree with the author at my link, but I linked it to illustrate how common it is to view racism as rooted in resentment.

    DRJ (15874d)

  62. Populism has always relied on resentment, usually white and/or rural resentment.

    DRJ (15874d)

  63. Note that I’m not saying Trump is racist.

    I am saying that Trump has calculated that his supporters are.

    I don’t believe he’s racist, and I don’t think he was calculating in this. This is just his standard m.o. where he reacts reflexively, not unlike an animal which feels threatened. It’s giving him too much credit to believe he thought this through, at 5:30 am, and considered the best way to not only fight back, but to also simultaneously tap into a specific sub-group of his supporters. This is just Trump on auto-pilot reax. Because he is such a thin-skinned reactionary, anything from a perceived slight to a full-blown attack gets the same response. And that’s a big problem. He has no obvious measurable standard and criteria that he implements to weigh out a fitting response (let alone whether a response is even necessary) to any negative comments made about him. He automatically becomes defensive and won’t let it go.

    Dana (023079)

  64. 1.”Trump obviously thinks this fight with a black family and Congresswoman polls well with his base”

    Only whistle I’ve seen in this thread.

    harkin (36810b)

  65. i love how you can count on President Trump to almost always respond to any attack the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts might contrive

    almost always

    this is such a great change

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  66. Further, that Trump received tremendous support from those both currently serving in the military and from veterans, it’s a shame to see him risk squandering any good will. This after his McCain “loser” comment finally blew over and a reset happened.

    Dana (023079)

  67. I don’t follow, but squirrel, so does Wilson want more or lessvintervention of Niger, or does she even care?

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. i love how you can count on President Trump to almost always respond to any attack the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts might contrive

    Like Brer Rabbit and Tar Baby.

    But will he trick Brer Fox into pulling him loose and throwing him into the briar patch?

    nk (dbc370)

  69. military people and veterans know better than anyone how inappropriately the johnson family has behaved

    they made a spectacle out of a routine phone call and politicized the death of a soldier whose service stood above and apart from politics

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  70. I agree with Dana. Trump believes in fighting back. Fighting back is satisfying and he believes it helps in the long-term, even if it hurts in the short-term.

    DRJ (15874d)

  71. But will he trick Brer Fox into pulling him loose and throwing him into the briar patch?

    if there were trickery – and not saying there was – but if there were

    it was on the part of whomever it was that tricked Ms. Johnson into going on tv with Jorge Snuffleupagus

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. Ditto 71.

    crazy (d99a88)

  73. *whoever* it was i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  74. But being a punching bag, works, Dana. Because it’s not like motives are misinterpreted?

    narciso (d1f714)

  75. This could have ended last week with President Trump issuing a gracious apology for any misunderstanding and continued prayers for the family. Instead, he keeps taking the bait (for lack of a better term re Congresswoman Wilson), and now he escalates things with his tweet this morning. He could have ended this and actually come out of it looking honorable. But not now.

    Dana (08f35f)


  76. I can’t speak for Patterico, obviously, but I think a lot of them are. Not all of them, but a lot of them.
    Leviticus (efada1) — 10/23/2017 @ 9:09 am

    Do you think lots of Hillary? supporters are racist too? Or can only Republicans be racists? And only white Republicans at that?


    67.Further, that Trump received tremendous support from those both currently serving in the military and from veterans, it’s a shame to see him risk squandering any good will. Dana

    Good will? Republicans have no racial good will. The Democrats have spent the last 80 years and a couple trillion dollars to put blacks on a Democrat controlled plantation called the inner city ghetto just to make sure they would be voting Democrat for the next 200 years. The Republicans wasted any “will” they had on stupid crap like patriotism, sovereignty and Constitutionalism. Republicans believe in that stupid motto “E Pluribus Unum” while the Democrats believe in diversity. As Porter at Kakistocracywrote: “We’re all the same, let’s celebrate diversity is as inherently self-contradictory as I hate racism and white people are evil. A simple visit to YouTube will show that.

    I find it amusing the Trump disrespected a woman and the people are in an uproar and the Republic in danger, but the pro sports millionaires “take a knee” and disrespect our heritage, our people, our country and there is nothing that can be said. Why? They’re black and that would be racist.

    If Trump were only as black as Obummer is and said the same thing would it be racist? Would he? Was Obummer denounced as racist when he said if he had a son he’d look like Trayvon?

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  77. On what planet do you think that work, dana, the dems fundraise after every atrocity, and tell squirrel otherwise.

    narciso (d1f714)

  78. this hasn’t escalated at all – read President Trump’s tweet above – it’s tempered, straightforward, and factual

    President Trump’s merely affording the Johnsons and sparklepony the opportunity to reach a large audience with their unprecedentedly low-class, opportunistic and tacky attempts to politicize the death of a soldier

    people need to see and understand the disgusting depths democrats, media, and nevertrump are willing to sink to in their efforts to delegitimize a democratically elected president (President Trump)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. she said of Rep. Wilson: “She’s been in our family since we were little kids.” Her uncle in law had been Ms. Wilson’s elementary school principal (I’m assuming she means Ms. Wilson was his principal)

    Making sure I understand this. The correct version of events comes from someone who is speaks in a way that we have to assume what she meant because her words are not clear enough.

    Sure.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  80. But the racism runs deep in leftist veins:

    https://twitter.com/primalpoly/status/921408382916890629/photo/1

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  81. 77… would we have seen the inordinate interest – I’m referring to the media, not Patterico – in this if it had been Obama (not Trump) and the wife of one of the white decedents? If not, that’s racist!

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  82. …Trump obviously thinks this fight with a black family and Congresswoman polls well with his base, because this is at least his third tweet about it since Friday. With any luck, we can still be talking about this next month.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 10/23/2017 @ 7:12 am

    So, you’ve bought into the idea that Trump’s base is racist. Congrats. Kudos. Huzzahs. How L.A. of you.

    Here’s a thought, as if another thought is possible on campus. She is misinterpreting the facts. There’s a long history of this. After Tarawa, Bloody Tarawa, Nimitz was flooded with letters from wives and mothers about how HE killed their sons and husbands.

    Nimitz wrote to each and every one of them. Trump should have taken Kelly’s advice not to call. Write.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  83. Racist clown nose on.

    No good deed goes unpunished.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  84. It could have been worse.

    “I’m sorry your husband got killed, but personally I like soldiers who don’t get killed.”

    Who thought allowing Trump anywhere near a conversation where some tact and finesse are required was a good idea?

    Jerryskids (3308c1)

  85. A moment of graciousness on Trump’s part would normally be the right thing to do but we don’t live in normal times. Whether right of wrong, Trump’s been aggravating people his whole life and knows his critics well enough to know they’d be bashing him for admitting he was a mean old liar instead of praising him for being polite and gracious to a grief stricken widow. Everyone involved is stuck on stupid. It’s stupid to fight with the widow, it’s stupid for the family and friends to be resentful of a presidential condolence call to a grieving widow and it’s stupid for the media and others to milk the dispute for political gain.

    I don’t think anybody’s playing the race game on either side. However, look how far we’ve progressed as a country that so many spend so much time trying to identify the racial component of every disagreement.

    crazy (d99a88)

  86. I can’t wait to see the contortions you guys go through when Trump does shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue. Tape it, will you? For Ripley’s Believe It Or Not.

    nk (dbc370)

  87. Coronello, how is the FIAT?

    I don’t know how to put this. So I will put it as plain as I can. By the time I was eleven I had learned to shove my fist into the hole to stop the bleeding, should the arm come off in my hand.

    And the only thing that could keep me sane was patterico or happyfeet or you coronello?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  88. I think crazy has the correct take.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  89. Trump should have taken Kelly’s advice not to call. Write.

    This times a thousand. A wise man recognizes when he is out of his depth, and thus he refers – and defers – to those who have the experience and know-how, and doesn’t insist on doing it his way.

    Dana (023079)

  90. Yeah crazy, that’s progress.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  91. Every GI knows damn well what he’s signing up for, he may seek a combat speciality, or be fully aware of how unlikely his military duties will bring him into violent conflict, but kill-or-be-killed combat is always a possibility, no matter how remote. It’s a reality, albeit an unlikely one.

    When our warriors are killed in the field, surviving family members are almost always greatful to receive letter or a phone call from the President, it’s an honor to have their loss recognized by the Commander-in-Chief in a direct and personal way.

    Did Donald Trump stumble over his words to Sgt. Johnson’s wife? Did a Trump hating Congresswoman spin an unintended ambiguity into a disrespectful insult?

    But, most importantly, was Donald Trump attempting recognize Sgt. Johnson’s sacrifice and honor his memory, or did he make the call intending to upset the widow of an American hero, was Trump taunting her that since Johnson volunteered for Special Forces he somehow had it coming?

    How you answer that question is like a Rorschach test: what you see is what’s already in your heart, and if you detect racism or bigotry: you’re a racist (as has already been revealed).

    ropelight (bbe920)

  92. Teh Fiats are fine, Steve, but I am heading in for a counseling session after reading your post.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)


  93. Nimitz wrote to each and every one of them. Trump should have taken Kelly’s advice not to call. Write.

    He did write, Steve57. He wrote a check for $25,000 and I still haven’t heard any of these self obsessed victims say “Thank You Mr. Trump”.

    But you’re correct. They should get a form letter made up and fill in the names appropriately. That way Trump needn’t talk with anyone and it would end up saving him money since he won’t be chided into offering money to help the thankless families.

    None of this would have happened if the it was a white guy. First of all the Rodeo Clown would have been nowhere near the parents of a dead white man.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  94. It’s pathetic how easily the Left can successfully troll the Troll-in-Chief. It’s pathetic how resistant he is to absorbing the politically obvious — the Khan Family dispute taught him nothing at all.

    The tactic only works because they can count on him to “fight back” — meaning punch down — so reflexively.

    He should be touring the country laying out the case for why the GOP should quit pretending the Dems won’t nuke the filibuster the next time they have the chance, so he could get something of consequence through Congress. Instead he’s doing this playground squabbling.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  95. Let me try to clarify. I only spent 20 years training for war. Scared the sh*t out of me.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  96. It’s “send in the clowns” 24x7x365 anymore…

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  97. fun thread you guys

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  98. No but Maxine water the BBC’ s Tara mckelvey can stop subtle hints, Fredericka being the Maxine of the Caribbean. Right he didn’t have a list of names with Kelly in the room.

    Rumsfeld got into trouble with the Autopen, w dissed Cyndi Sheehan even thought he don’t and went halfway around the world to eat a plastic turkey, did you forget the forget the last dozen years,

    narciso (43fe17)

  99. What has been happening the last week outside of certain tweets, you must look at the roast squirrel the democrats serve up even when it’s gamey.

    narciso (43fe17)

  100. It only works to the extent that it works, Beldar. And it seems to only affect the Democrats and their media operatives, who believe any ankle-nipping at Trump is strong stuff and monumental. In fact, it is extremely weak excrement.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  101. This kerfluffle began with popovich you recall oddly it happened exactly at the time of the mop up of Islamic state, we were assured would never happen. But one patrol in some obscure village, where we half to deal with corrupt local village elders and obersensitive French air support, just stands in for the whole war on terror see how this works.

    narciso (43fe17)

  102. Popovich is a basketball coach, fer chrissakes. Who gives a rat’s backside what he thinks, much less says!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  103. @ Col. H: The Leftie trolling is working, as proven by the fact that we’re talking about this. Trump is who gives this controversy continued vigor. Do you approve of that, or do you wish he’d STFU about it and do his damn job?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  104. This is all manipulation to distract us from the Big Picture. Which is Barack Obama and the Clintons have sold us out.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  105. We’re just passing time, Beldar. The media are busy virtue signaling and jerking each other off. It doesn’t mean squat. Gale force hot air signifying nothing.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  106. 1. When did we change the pronunciation of Niger-Mandela effect?

    2. George Strph nearly whiffed the sgt’s name plain as day.

    3. Hasn’t the criminal justice system had problems from implanted memories? I can see cowgirl congresslady getting that ball rolling.

    Pinandpuller (a15741)

  107. Trump can keep entertaining and highlighting the misplaced priorities of the Democrats and moronic media and doing his job.

    Would I prefer he STFU? Yes. Do I think it is worth 50 thousand repetitive posts? I do not.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  108. Like. A. Rhinestone Cowpie.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  109. Yes popovich then Bezos followed up trawling for parents of dead soldiers do you not recall, playing the same game that led to Katie muellers being cut in nearby raqqua.

    The point is never to focus on the vrkakte ienemy such is alqueda or Islamic state or whatever new band gets together

    narciso (613934)

  110. Like I said, narciso, send in teh clowns…

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  111. Send in the clowns, Colonel? Your wish is my command.

    http://patriotretort.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Village-Idiots.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  112. Sorry about the typos, so what is everybody elses excuse, we can the dems with previous few exceptions were on the wrong side in the cold war and increasingly became so in this long twilight struggle, but we have this @%@#$!% Russian garbage as if they ever have a farthing.

    narciso (613934)

  113. I’m shocked that she didn’t go on national TV and call her Congresswoman, who she’s known since she was a child, a liar.

    Stunning.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  114. A truly hysterical angle of the Popovich saga is that conservative radio host Joe Pagliarulo, a long-time resident of San Antonio, and a huge Spurs fan — having played the National Anthem at Spurs games on his Sax many time. Until last week when Popovich went off, Pags worshiped at the Popovich altar in San Antonio. But now he doesn’t know how to deal with a “fallen hero”. He basically had to go to the “I love him as the basketball coach of my favorite team, but I have no interest in anything he has to say about politics — he’s a basketball coach.”

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  115. she ain’t got nothin on scarjo that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  116. @28 nk

    For every black football player whose name I can’t remember hassled at the ER entrance of the hospital while his MIL dies there’s a bloke called Plexico who has a handgun fall out of his trackies in a nightclub.

    Pinandpuller (89e3fb)

  117. Is Donald Trump a Racist? – by Nicholas Kristof, July 23, 2016

    “One early red flag arose in 1973, when President Richard Nixon’s Justice Department — not exactly the radicals of the day — sued Trump and his father, Fred Trump, for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals.”

    “I’ve waded through 1,021 pages of documents from that legal battle, and they are devastating. Donald Trump was then president of the family real estate firm, and the government amassed overwhelming evidence that the company had a policy of discriminating against blacks, including those serving in the military.”

    To prove the discrimination, blacks were repeatedly dispatched as testers to Trump apartment buildings to inquire about vacancies, and white testers were sent soon after. Repeatedly, the black person was told that nothing was available, while the white tester was shown apartments for immediate rental.

    “A former building superintendent working for the Trumps explained that he was told to code any application by a black person with the letter C, for colored, apparently so the office would know to reject it. A Trump rental agent said the Trumps wanted to rent only to “Jews and executives,” and discouraged renting to blacks.”

    Donald Trump furiously fought the civil rights suit in the courts and the media, but the Trumps eventually settled on terms that were widely regarded as a victory for the government. Three years later, the government sued the Trumps again, for continuing to discriminate.

    In fairness, those suits date from long ago, and the discriminatory policies were probably put in place not by Donald Trump but by his father. Fred Trump appears to have been arrested at a Ku Klux Klan rally in 1927; Woody Guthrie, who lived in a Trump property in the 1950s, lambasted Fred Trump in recently discovered papers for stirring racial hatred.”

    “Yet even if Donald Trump inherited his firm’s discriminatory policies, he allied himself decisively in the 1970s housing battle against the civil rights movement.”

    “Another revealing moment came in 1989, when New York City was convulsed by the “Central Park jogger” case… In 1991, a book by John O’Donnell, who had been president of the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump as criticizing a black accountant and saying: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

    As Trump moved into casinos, discrimination followed. In the 1980s, according to a former Trump casino worker, Kip Brown, who was quoted by The New Yorker: “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor. … They put us all in the back.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/sunday/is-donald-trump-a-racist.html

    It goes on to mention Trump’s embrace of birtherism, slam on Mexicans and his ‘retweeting’ of “messages from white supremacists or Nazi sympathizers…” And this was before he was elected and his Charlottesville comments.

    Is Trump a racist? Possibly. Is Trump a bigot? Probably. After all, he’s from Queens…

    “Just like Archie Bunker.” – Laureen Hobbs [Marlene Warfield] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. DC

    Trump has carefully groomed himself as Exalted Cyclops adding bells and whistles instead of Pipers flute hoping the wharf rats would follow…they did follow, faithfully.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  119. 94. ropelight (bbe920) — 10/23/2017 @ 11:37 am

    most importantly, was Donald Trump attempting recognize Sgt. Johnson’s sacrifice and honor his memory, or did he make the call intending to upset the widow of an American hero, was Trump taunting her that since Johnson volunteered for Special Forces he somehow had it coming?

    According to that member of Congress, I think she has it that Trump is such an insensitive person that he’ll do that.

    I don’t think any of the reporters who wrote stories about it bought into that very absurd proposition – you could tell..

    Sammy Finkelman (de36da)

  120. Trump learned a lot about leadership from the Walking Dead.

    Walkers are attracted to Bigly Noises.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  121. @121 – “Boy the way Glenn Miller played; Songs that made the hit parade; Guys like us we had it made; Those were the days…”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. @33 Algonquin

    I watched Road House last nite with lifelong family friend Rep Wilson. At a certain point I grabbed a beer but she told me what happened:

    LeDalton: You be black until it’s time to not be black.

    Bouncer: How will I know?

    LeDalton : I’ll let you know!

    Pinandpuller (89e3fb)

  123. “I’m shocked that she didn’t go on national TV and call her Congresswoman, who she’s known since she was a child, a liar.”

    – shipwreckedcrew

    She actually did the opposite: she called Trump a liar.

    Also not shocking, of course.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  124. I didn’t know that about Joe pags are the spurs that good in the first place?

    narciso (613934)

  125. Popovich has been woke now, and it’s kind of embarassing frankly.

    narciso (613934)

  126. For a month. Anyways I note the pattern from mogAdishu to the saudi training bases, those in agadez will be the next target, to the embassies in west africa.

    narciso (613934)

  127. military people and veterans know better than anyone how inappropriately the johnson family has behaved

    they made a spectacle out of a routine phone call and politicized the death of a soldier whose service stood above and apart from politics

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/23/2017 @ 9:51 am

    Yes, we know. Missing in all of this is what SGT Johnson might have though. We’ve heard from his Congrsscitter and relatives.

    Oh, yeah, he’s not around. How convenient.

    Back when Dubya was preeziee we all heard about Cindy Sheehan. Cindy Sheehan was protesting Bush for sending her son to get killed in Eye-rack.

    Quick, without googling it, who was Cindy Sheehan’s son?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  128. It’s good that the President can focus on the big issues.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  129. They really SHOULD install taping equipment in the Oval Office. It might help Trump and surely cannot do more damage than his Twitter account.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  130. She actually did the opposite: she called Trump a liar.

    Also not shocking, of course.

    Leviticus (efada1) — 10/23/2017 @ 1:29 pm

    No, it is shocking. Trump has handled things clumsily to say the least, but it’s an honor for the US President to call you to offer condolences. To use this as a political attack hurts the next family who may not get that call because now it’s a political dirty trick. And yes, it is.

    She is showing the office no respect because victimhood eclipses everything in our society.

    She should have just said she hopes he learns how to do this difficult task better next time but she appreciates the gesture. In truth, she does not care if he does the next call better. The democrats actually hope he fails at this sort of thing. What’s the benefit of that beyond the polls?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  131. Deleterious isn’t a bad word. It’s also the most popular name in Memphis first grade.

    Pinandpuller (04d5ac)

  132. I really wish Sgt Johnson was around to give a Florida/Niger comparison contrast. And for his family, of course, I’m just being selfish.

    Pinandpuller (04d5ac)

  133. One need look no further than the furious typing of resident leftwing chimpanzees BeenBurned and ASPCA to see who and what this resonates with.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  134. Well serenade us with some real haiku. Even Felipe le Pew does it..lol

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  135. Casey, just as with nick berg, the left never aims its hate at the badr brigade or zarquawis ansar Al islam. Meanwhile the president was warding the moh to a veteran of another battlefront we didn’t officially sknowlege, laos, fought alongside people we betrayed with great alacrity, the among.

    narciso (d1f714)

  136. Carry on with the hyperventilating:
    https://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/rose/

    narciso (d1f714)

  137. https://mobile.twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/922555006674403329?p=v

    At variance with some of the accounts

    narciso (d1f714)

  138. A few years back the Army established a pipeline for new recruits to go directly into SOF.

    Upsetting the previous theory being that they would have the infantry DNA to fall back on.

    As a Navy guy I recognized the logic. That was one of the weaknesses of the SEALs. They weren’t drawn from infantrymen. For frogmen that was impossible, and had to be accepted.

    But for Army types it was different. And now these guys walked into an ambush. The whole point of requiring the troops to be infantrymen first was to avoid ambushes or if that failed work your way out.

    What is the Army equivalent of board of inquiry? I would look into this question, if I were on it.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  139. If course if you rely on time:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TIME/status/922570839060606978

    narciso (d1f714)

  140. My feelings about this are unchanged. Trump made a call and either the widow took something badly, or was convinced to take something badly. The Congresswoman did her no favors by calling the press in. And Trump really needs to stay out of the muck. Effing President Calvin.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  141. beenburned scarred fingers
    that’s why they call it dope…………….. dope
    skin it back funky

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  142. Greetings, Steve57: ( @141 (0b1dac) —10/23/2017 @ 2:49 pm )

    Well, the way my favorite Platoon Sergeant explained it to me was, “There are two plays in the infantry game, find ’em, fix ’em, and finish ’em or let them find you, fix ’em and finish ’em. You show me an infantryman who’s never been ambushed and I’ll show you an infantryman who is either very good, very lucky, or very imaginary.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  143. Greetings:

    I’ve just watched the BBC’s World News America and am now watching Judy Woodruff demonstrate her gifts on the PBS NewsHour.
    Totally unsurprisingly, none involved has discovered and analogy with that Night in Benghazi when similar problems arose but then I guess as to the latter, “What difference, at this point, does it make.” especially as regards all those little white lies.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  144. What difference, at this point, does it make.”

    Pragmatism should overtake you sooner

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  145. either the widow took something badly, or was convinced to take something badly

    Really? No possibility that Trump messed up?

    Here’s my theory. Trump looked at this as an annoying chore, didn’t probably prepare, and it was immediately evident.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  146. 149. Davethulhu (fab944) — 10/23/2017 @ 4:02 pm

    Here’s my theory. Trump looked at this as an annoying chore, didn’t probably prepare, and it was immediately evident.

    There’s a tape of a similar call he made in April:

    https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2017-10-20-what-did-pres-trump-say-to-a-goldstar-mother-heres-the-audio-of-the-call/

    It was Trump’s decision to make the calls (maybe in order to show up Obama and some others, but still his decision.)

    If he felt it was an annoying chore that he didn’t want to do, (as opposed to a challenge) he could simply not have done it.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  147. ‘Bung-le, in da jung-le’– eh, Captain, sir.

    Fresh sliced strawberries and two creamy white scoops of Dolly Madison vanilla tonight, sir!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. He’s the best danged Sergeant in the whole danged Aero Force!!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  149. Oh. Yeah, that was from 1958s No Time for Sergeants. Trump should listen more to Kelly than enabler Huckabeast.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  150. But this time, with no explanation, the State Department revoked Browder’s U.S. visa, restricting his freedom of movement at exactly the same time that Russia is hunting for him.
    Such a move creates the impression that Trump administration officials are sympathetic to Putin’s crusade against a political foe.
    Browder, a U.S.-born British financier whose former lawyer, Sergei Magnitsky, was tortured to death in a Russian prison after exposing the corruption of Putin’s inner circle, has been instrumental in pushing democratic nations to hold Russia to account for political murder. His activism has prompted four countries — the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, and Estonia — to adopt “Magnitsky Acts.”
    These laws, which block the Russian oligarchs who killed Magnitsky from using assets they looted from their country and stashed overseas, are the only significant consequence Putin has faced for his crimes. And Browder is at the top of the list of people he blames.
    https://shareblue.com/trump-officials-suddenly-revoke-visa-of-hero-being-hunted-by-putin/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  151. Its a tough neighborhood:
    http://menastream.com/malian-soldiers-held-by-jnim

    narciso (d1f714)

  152. @150 the reason I think he might have felt it was a chore is due to the fact that he was getting dinged in the news for not making any comment on the situation, so he might have felt forced or bullied.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  153. Her uncle in law had been Ms. Wilson’s elementary school principal

    I think that means he was the principal when she was a mere teacher. (she later on became a principal herself. Of an elementary school, not a high school like I said in another thread. She says it was one of the best schools in America.) She later on was elected to the Miami-Dade school board.

    From her Congressional web page:

    https://wilson.house.gov/about/full-biography

    After earning a Bachelor of Science degree in elementary education from Fisk University and a Master of Science degree in elementary education from the University of Miami, Congresswoman Wilson worked as a teacher and assistant educational coordinator for the Miami-Dade County Public Schools Head Start program. She quickly rose to become principal of Skyway Elementary School, which was recognized as one of the best schools in America in President George H. W. Bush’s “America 2000” plan to upgrade national education standards.

    In addition to raising academic standards and expectations, Congresswoman Wilson taught her students the power of advocacy. Their target was a compost plant built across the street from Skyway that emitted odors that posed a major health and environmental hazard and distracted the children from their studies. She and her students mobilized their community and lobbied government and school board officials until they achieved their goal. The compost plant closed its doors just short of two years after its opening.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  154. 120 – “After all, he’s from Queens…”
    _

    I’m from normal parents myself”

    Ray (John Turturro) – Desperately Seeking Susan

    harkin (cf32fb)

  155. Col. H, I simply disagree with this:

    We’re just passing time, Beldar. The media are busy virtue signaling and jerking each other off. It doesn’t mean squat. Gale force hot air signifying nothing.

    It’s certainly a controversy about something completely ridiculous, but it is a controversy that detracts from what Trump needs to be doing, which is his job. You ducked my question earlier. Do you approve or disapprove of him fanning these flames on Twitter? Is it good or bad for the country? Do you deny the concept of opportunity cost?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  156. One can chew gun except for Paul Ryan who seems to be in full mode, 2/3 of the time,

    narciso (d1f714)

  157. So what all that means is teacher Frederica Wilson first got to know La David T. Johnson when he was the principal’s nephew. It’s not clear how and when or if she knew Myeshia. Did she go to the same school, or what?

    From Myeshia Johnson:

    . It was Master Sgt. Neil, me, my aunt, and uncle, and the driver, and Ms. Wilson in the car.

    That would mean tat La David’s mother was not in the car.

    Then how could she back up her daughter-in-law’s version of the call?

    https://www.salon.com/2017/10/18/mother-of-slain-soldier-david-johnson-donald-trump-disrespected-us/

    According to Wilson, Trump called Myeshia Johnson — the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson — and told her, “He knew what he signed up for . . . but when it happens it hurts anyway.” Wilson described herself as “livid” at Trump’s callous demeanor and said that Johnson was “in tears,” commenting that Trump “‘didn’t even remember his name.”

    Wilson’s account was confirmed by Cowanda Jones-Johnson, the soldier’s mother, who knocked down Trump’s claim to The Washington Post. “President Trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband,” Jones-Johnson said.

    Although Jones-Johnson decided not to elaborate to the Post, she confirmed that Wilson’s version of events was correct.

    Now wait a second. Myeshia Johnson said yeshia Johnson:

    It was Master Sgt. Neil, me, my aunt, and uncle, and the driver, and Ms. Wilson in the car.

    Did she marry her first cousin? But then, she speaks or smeone speaks of an “uncle -in-law.”

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  158. Or does she call her husband’s aunt and uncle, her aunt and uncle? In any case that’s not her husband’s mother.

    Or does she call her husband’s mother, her “aunt”?

    This is a puzzle.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  159. So, you’ve bought into the idea that Trump’s base is racist. Congrats. Kudos. Huzzahs. How L.A. of you.

    How very wherever the hell you live of you to ignore my comment 14. I await your apology.

    By the way, your interpretation was a stretch even before I explicitly said I wasn’t saying that.

    Patterico (ed5491)

  160. “You ducked my question earlier. Do you approve or disapprove of him fanning these flames on Twitter? Is it good or bad for the country? Do you deny the concept of opportunity cost?”

    Tough call, Beldar. Twitter appears to be the only way he can get his “point” across without the media putting its own spin on his t before it reaches the American people… whether you agree with that message or not. Plus, who is the fool… the Tweeter-in-Chief? Or the morons in the media who get up each morning fixated on what the next tweet will be. I don’t care one way or the other.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  161. Beldar,

    Opportunity cost implies the existence of capability and competence necessary to achieve a goal greater than producing another episode of the Punch and Judy Show. I’m having trouble identifying a three day period in the past seven months which would demonstrate the focus sufficient to provide evidence of the assertion with regard to an identifiable goal.

    Rick Ballard (6a5693)

  162. If you think the coverage will ever be fair, you are living a fantasy.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  163. it’s an honor for the US President to call you to offer condolences

    I rarely disagree with you, Dustin, but here I will. I don’t think it’s an honor to have a jackass like Donald Trump call you, regardless of the office he holds.

    Patterico (ed5491)

  164. I know consider the source, buts its a reasonable primer:
    http://latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-africa-niger-us-military-20171021-story.html

    Mrs alencar disagrees

    narciso (d1f714)

  165. If the President of the United States is on the phone for you– you take the call. Remember your ‘Band of Brothers’ ‘…salute the rank, not the man.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. it’s an honor for the US President to call you to offer condolences
    I rarely disagree with you, Dustin, but here I will. I don’t think it’s an honor to have a jackass like Donald Trump call you, regardless of the office he holds.

    ***********

    He was fairly elected by the citizens of the Untied States and he is still the military’s Commander in Chief. Most in the military–that I know–voted for him. ( I did not.)

    Why did they vote for Trump?

    Trump was a vast improvement over the last President and his Secretary of State who fabricated a whole story about a video while honoring the fallen in Benghazi. SO they used their caskets and the emotion of that day to try and reassure the American public and bolster Hillary’s chances of winning the Presidency.

    Trump had a lot of help from your White Knight Ted Cruz.

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  167. edit: United States

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  168. If someone does not like you, you must be careful you don’t give them any opening to lie about what you are saying. It is difficult to believe that Trump made this phone call with any intent other than to be respectful.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  169. Patterico,

    I read your 163 AND #14. You clearly say in #14 that Trump thinks his base is racist. Now maybe that’s not quite the same as YOU thinking his base is racist but it does seem like an implied projection.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  170. It’s the Office of President calling the family of a fallen soldier, P. That is a show of respect in the chain of command, and would typically be received that way. It’s why military personnel who didn’t admire Obama would still want to receive commendations awarded by the President, and their families would be honored to receive condolences from him upon their family member’s death.

    Steve57:

    So, you’ve bought into the idea that Trump’s base is racist. Congrats. Kudos. Huzzahs. How L.A. of you.

    As I read Patterico’s comment 14 and his post, he’s saying Trump views his supporters as racists because he uses tactics that appeal to racists. Patterico did not say Trump’s supporters are racists. They may very well support him despite his tactics, not because of them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  171. If the President of the United States is on the phone for you– you take the call.

    If for some reason, President Obama put his hand out for me to shake, I would have shook it. I would have taken his call even though I had a deep and abiding disdain for the man. Trump is no worse.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  172. Yup, I read #14 as a roundabout racist accusation as well.

    Dejectedhead (dcf56c)

  173. Patterico did not say Trump’s supporters are racists.

    No, but it would be easy to infer, given the limited bandwidth of this medium and some of Patterico’s other comments about his minimum high regard for Trump’s supporters.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  174. The Cowgirl Congresslady and her friend think he’s racist too.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  175. Theynsaid that about Nixon,and Reagan as well (re neshoba) its one democrats who never have any ill intent, they always mean well even when they are burning the house down.

    narciso (d1f714)

  176. They think all white people are racists, too.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  177. The evidence that Trump appealed to racists, is that white people voted for Trump.

    Dejectedhead (dcf56c)

  178. Yep– I read it the same way.

    I didn’t vote for Trump but do I like him fighting the NFL and pushing back on their kneeling protest? Yes.

    Am I glad he is making sure to fight the insinuation that he does not fully respect the ultimate sacrifice of a member of the military? Yes.

    Again–that works for me and I didn’t vote for him and I am not a racist.

    The racism charge is something the Left does when they’ve lost logic and ultimately it is how they lost the election.

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  179. I could infer your “deep and abiding disdain” for Obama was due to racism, Kevin M. I don’t think you woild like that. Why do the same with Patterico just because he dislikes Trump?

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. Trump does a lot of things that strike me as counterproductive, but they obviously make sense to him. His actions give us insight into how his mind thinks, but they dosn’t explain how his supporters think. There are lots of reasons why people support Trump despite how he acts.

    DRJ (15874d)

  181. Is there anyone who can admit they voted for Trump? He did win didn’t he?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  182. This fellow does seem to have some knowledge on the subject:
    https://www.wcupa.edu/sciences-mathematics/anthropologySociology/pStoller.aspx

    Despite being a puffington host contributor,

    narciso (d1f714)

  183. Trump’s condolence call wasn’t good enough? I think the Democrats and Sassy-Koch-Flake Republicans should really go after him on that. It’s a goldmine! You’ll win for sure!

    jcurtis (2a1bf5)

  184. I voted for Trump, Ben burn. I was afraid Texans would not vote for him in sufficient numbers to keep Texas decidedly red. I believed he would win in Texas but not by as much as prior GOP nominees, and he didn’t. Even moderates like McCain and Romney who were not as conservative as most Texans wanted got more votes than Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  185. A very broad overview of the region

    http://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/the_spread_of_islam_in_west_africa_containment_mixing_and_reform_from_the_eighth_to_the_twentieth_century

    One might say, sahroui Believes he is following in the footsteps of uthman

    narciso (d1f714)

  186. it’s an honor for the US President to call you to offer condolences

    I rarely disagree with you, Dustin, but here I will. I don’t think it’s an honor to have a jackass like Donald Trump call you, regardless of the office he holds.

    I tend to believe that most families who have lost their loved ones while serving their country would indeed appreciate a condolence call from the Commander in Chief. It’s a show of compassion, respect and appreciation on behalf of the nation. However, since this call became a political football (and apparently still is), it would be wise for Trump to stick to letter writing only in the future.

    Dana (023079)

  187. As far as I’m concerned, these types of stories are just about character assassination. They’re superficial and without substance. Even if Trump did call up the widow and misspeaks, so what? That’s for the widow to feel upset about. It’s of no national concern.

    It is, Fake news.

    Dejectedhead (dcf56c)

  188. Trump is to racism as Obama was to gender dysphoria.

    David Duke. Richard Spencer. Their ilk. Their silent sympathizers. Their not-so silent sympathizers like Bannon and Yiannopoulos. Trump has emboldened them the same way Obama emboldened trannies, AND he has been very hesitant to do or say anything that will alienate them.

    nk (dbc370)

  189. Now it appears that tillaberi, like cyrenaica (eastern Libya) dies have an independent spirit, so who exactly are we working with over there?

    narciso (d1f714)


  190. 183.I could infer your “deep and abiding disdain” for Obama was due to racism, Kevin M. I don’t think you woild like that. Why do the same with Patterico just because he dislikes Trump?
    DRJ

    Because Patterico said this:


    14.Note that I’m not saying Trump is racist.

    I am saying that Trump has calculated that his supporters are.

    Like he knows personally and for a fact Trump sees his supporters as racists. That’s just plain hateful to say and on par with leftist talk. And if he is attracting racists then he must be one. People are not supporters of politicians who don’t reflect their philosophy.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  191. Stranger still are the folks who say they didn’t vote for Trump, but enable him nonetheless.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  192. I proudly voted for Trump and I hope to have the opportunity to do it again.

    ropelight (bbe920)

  193. Then how could she back up her daughter-in-law’s version of the call?

    I would assume that Myeshia told her mother-in-law about the call, and Cowanda based her statement on that. You’ll notice there’s no explicit claim she herself heard the call.

    Also notice that the dispute is not really over what Trump said, but how he said: his tone of voice and his fluency innsaying Sgt. Johnson’s name. The Johnson family have chosen to interpret those in the worst possible light. With an actual audio of the call, we’ll never know.

    kishnevi (35dd1e)

  194. #195. Well stated, it’s inherently a toxic and hateful statement

    Dejectedhead (dcf56c)

  195. The US army just took the largest oil field from ISIS in Syria–so–that was “enabled”.

    Might have been worth it.

    Algonquin (28b0d5)

  196. As best as I can recall, here’s a story I heard years ago:

    A family was boating on Chesapeake Bay in the early part of the 20th century. On seeing the presidential yacht passing by, everyone stood and the gentlemen removed their hats.

    A young person present asked: “Why are you honoring him? You all hate everything he stands for?”

    One of the gentlemen replied: “We are honoring the office, not the man”.

    There are not many people like that any more….I mean there a huge number of people now who think free speech is a problem.

    harkin (cf32fb)

  197. Since this fellow is disusing the capacity of forces in the region I was curious:

    https://www.africaintelligence.com/lce/power-brokers/2015/03/04/bazoum-back-to-basics-at-pnds-party,108064518-art

    Ted Cruz was despised among many Latins sadly, Rubin want regarded much better (his efforts in favor of amnesty were not well regarded.

    narciso (d1f714)

  198. “Like he knows personally and for a fact Trump sees his supporters as racists.”

    This is not the first time our host has implied he can read Trump’s mind.

    I’m not sure if he used a crystal ball, sheep entrails or some other mode of magic.

    harkin (cf32fb)

  199. I’m assuming there were fewer nevermccains because of the huntress, and freer never romneys because there want a protracted primary fight by then.

    narciso (d1f714)

  200. You clearly say in #14 that Trump thinks his base is racist. Now maybe that’s not quite the same as YOU thinking his base is racist but it does seem like an implied projection.

    Made up by you. You think I believe Trump’s base wants to prosecute women for abortion just because that is what HE thinks about them?

    Do me the favor of reading what I say and not making up things that are easier to attack,

    Patterico (115b1f)

  201. I could infer your “deep and abiding disdain” for Obama was due to racism, Kevin M. I don’t think you woild like that. Why do the same with Patterico just because he dislikes Trump?

    I’ll offer a response to that: because, as far as I’m aware, there is nothing in any of the tweets or press reports that would imply that any consideration whatsoever of the family’s race was or even might have been a factor in this ridiculous controversy. On what foundation does Patterico throw out such an insulting accusation, couched in a third party formulation? Patterico suggests that Trump believes his supporters are racist and that therefore Trump must be pandering to their racist beliefs by bullying this black soldier’s family.

    Why would such a thought even enter into Patterico’s head?

    My initial reaction on reading that comment was to think, “Assumes facts not in evidence,” and that it was the cheapest of cheap shots at Trump.

    ColoComment (13c772)

  202. and some of Patterico’s other comments about his minimum high regard for Trump’s supporters.

    SOME OF Trump’s supporters.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  203. NeverRomney was the hard evangelicals east of I-35 who materializedfor the general. WHile fewer in number than NeverTrump, NR had a greater marginal effect, costing Romney any chance at FL, VA, OH and IA

    urbanleftbehind (b843ef)

  204. There are not many people like that any more

    Have you ever dishonored the office when it was held by Obama?

    Have you ever dishonored the office of a Senator or House member?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  205. Well Florida was a particularly brutal primary, some were certainly less forgiving, to his credit romneys was prescient about west Africa.

    narciso (d1f714)

  206. But a piece set up by a Clinton foundation contrabutor (stephanopoluos) to carry a given narrative, not really an authoritative element.

    narciso (d1f714)

  207. It’s interesting, isn’t it, that a minor remark of Patterico, written in clear language with what we can assume is innocent intent, can be commonly interpreted in such negative fashion by some of us?

    But some are holding Trump to a much higher extemporaneous speaking standard, notwithstanding that we all know his speaking habits are… challenged, to say the least.

    It seems as though there may be a lesson in there, no?

    ColoComment (13c772)

  208. If the President of the United States is on the phone for you– you take the call. Remember your ‘Band of Brothers’ — ‘…salute the rank, not the man.’

    Not that type of person. I don’t care about your rank or office.

    If Trump ever called me I’d refuse the call, or take it and tell him off.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  209. It’s interesting, isn’t it, that a minor remark of Patterico, written in clear language with what we can assume is innocent intent, can be commonly interpreted in such negative fashion by some of us?

    But some are holding Trump to a much higher extemporaneous speaking standard, notwithstanding that we all know his speaking habits are… challenged, to say the least.

    It seems as though there may be a lesson in there, no?

    Nope.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  210. I’ll offer a response to that: because, as far as I’m aware, there is nothing in any of the tweets or press reports that would imply that any consideration whatsoever of the family’s race was or even might have been a factor in this ridiculous controversy. On what foundation does Patterico throw out such an insulting accusation, couched in a third party formulation? Patterico suggests that Trump believes his supporters are racist and that therefore Trump must be pandering to their racist beliefs by bullying this black soldier’s family.

    Why would such a thought even enter into Patterico’s head?

    Gee, where in Donald Trump’s history has he ever given the slightest indication that he appeals to racists?

    I must have just made that trait of his up, out of whole cloth!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  211. What color is the sky in your world?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  212. My question is do you think Trumps supporters are racists, Patterico?

    Some, Hoagie. Absolutely.

    I also think some of Hillary’s supporters are anti-white racists, to answer your follow-up question that you were about to ask.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  213. Like Kanye west’s spontaneous “w doesn’t care about black people’ like that. Yes I know color of change and van Jones organized that, but we didn’t know that at the time. That was the claim thrown at thatcher by rushdie after the Brixton riots and reagan, well pick a day ending in y.

    narciso (d1f714)

  214. Did Trump’s “army of deplorables” ever issue that army of death threats?

    harkin (cf32fb)


  215. Some, Hoagie. Absolutely.

    “Some” of everybody’s supporters are racist.

    “I also think some of Hillary’s supporters are anti-white racists, to answer your follow-up question that you were about to ask.” I already asked @77.


    Do you think lots of Hillary? supporters are racist too? Or can only Republicans be racists? And only white Republicans at that?

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  216. There were reports of death threats received at the P!nk Tremegant’s Florida office.

    nk (dbc370)

  217. 215.

    Gee, where in Donald Trump’s history has he ever given the slightest indication that he appeals to racists?

    I must have just made that trait of his up, out of whole cloth!

    Appeals to racists?

    Like if you make a statement and a racist person agrees with you and finds that message appealing, then you would be appealing to racists?

    Dejectedhead (3bdeb2)

  218. I must have just made that trait of his up, out of whole cloth!

    Well, yeah, in this post and commentary, you did. I am not a regular reader here, so if you’ve laid the foundation for such an accusation elsewhere, I guess I missed that & you have my apology for my unfair accusation. With a disclaimer that I don’t follow Trump’s tweets or speeches very closely, I have to state that I don’t have any recollection that he has affirmatively made racist appeals.

    ColoComment (13c772)

  219. How stupid does Lindsay graham, doing his best Stuart symington *impression

    Longtime senator from Missouri former air force secrretary, denying our presence in Laos in 1971

    narciso (d1f714)

  220. “There were reports of death threats received at the P!nk Tremegant’s Florida office.”

    Any idea how many thousand? I mean the army was going to do it.

    Any photos with severed heads?

    harkin (cf32fb)

  221. Let’s rewrite history: Moon, 1969.

    Bruce McCandless: “Hello, Neil and Buzz, the President of the United States is in his office now on the phone and would like to say a few words to you, over.”

    Neil Armstrong: “No thanks. I’m busy picking up moon rocks.”

    Buzz Aldrin: “I’ll talk to him, Bruce, so I can tell him he’s a crook and a scumbag for killing the Apollo program.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  222. “I also think some of Hillary’s supporters are anti-white racists, to answer your follow-up question that you were about to ask.” I already asked @77.

    Lotta comments on the thread. Maybe I divined that you “would” ask the question because I saw you ask it and then forgot.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  223. Well, yeah, in this post and commentary, you did. I am not a regular reader here, so if you’ve laid the foundation for such an accusation elsewhere, I guess I missed that & you have my apology for my unfair accusation. With a disclaimer that I don’t follow Trump’s tweets or speeches very closely, I have to state that I don’t have any recollection that he has affirmatively made racist appeals.

    K. If you haven’t noticed it by now, then I’m not wasting my time trying to convince you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  224. 223 – you have to remember that anyone who is against illegal immigration is racist and against all immigration……

    ….that anyone who questions importing thousands of young Islamic men from areas known for young Islamic men committing terror acts is against freedom of religion….

    and that Trump’s base is racist because they are against illegal immigration and following disastrous lefty (e.g. Obama, Merkel) immigration policies.

    harkin (cf32fb)

  225. Let’s rewrite history: Moon, 1969.

    Bruce McCandless: “Hello, Neil and Buzz, the President of the United States is in his office now on the phone and would like to say a few words to you, over.”

    Neil Armstrong: “No thanks. I’m busy picking up moon rocks.”

    Buzz Aldrin: “I’ll talk to him, Bruce, so I can tell him he’s a crook and a scumbag for killing the Apollo program.”

    I’d probably take the call in that situation, because you sort of have to.

    As Patterico, private citizen, I am under no similar obligation to be respectful. $%*&^ off, Trump.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  226. Who is David Duke? Never heard of that guy!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  227. Like he knows personally and for a fact Trump sees his supporters as racists. 

    We make judgments about people based on what they say and do. Those judgments can be wrong but there is a basis for them based on evidence of what people say and do, and it doesn’t have to be based on intimate knowledge. How do you think juries hear evidence and decide guilt or innocence?

    DRJ (15874d)

  228. K. If you haven’t noticed it by now, then I’m not wasting my time trying to convince you.

    The Prosecution rests.

    Dejectedhead (26e21c)

  229. A guy shaded out of Russia and eastern Europe, who even the sepal don’t want crashing on their conch anymore. The more correct question is who is al sharpton,?

    narciso (d1f714)


  230. How do you think juries hear evidence and decide guilt or innocence?

    DRJ, I’m not a lawyer, this isn’t a court and neither Trump nor his supporters are on trial based on guilt or innocence. But I don’t think juries decide on innuendo or ambiguous evidence based on personal bias. I could be wrong, I’ve never been on trial and my legal experience is small claims court and I almost always lost.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  231. One more thing. I frankly don’t give a rat’s butt about any of this. I think it’s stupid and a dredged up smoke screen to cover all the other really important things like Obama and Hillary’s treason and financial collusion from the media. It is still amazing how much mileage crazed black, Democrat, leftist women can get from the old worn out “racist” meme.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  232. The Prosecution rests.

    The prosecution first chooses jurors who might possibly be convinced. THEN the prosecution puts on its case.

    Confronted with an audience that refuses to be convinced, the smart persuader moves on to others.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  233. Yes just likely the o’reilly squirrel, however this resembles black hawk down in a number of significant ways.

    narciso (d1f714)

  234. I think it’s stupid and a dredged up smoke screen to cover all the other really important things like Obama and Hillary’s treason and financial collusion from the media. It is still amazing how much mileage crazed black, Democrat, leftist women can get from the old worn out “racist” meme.

    Trump and Kelly filled and refilled her gas tank. They could have aborted this story with a few well-chosen words, like Dana and I suggested up the thread.

    nk (dbc370)

  235. Right, they don’t want to look at the story, period, they want to hang trump, if they need to create a murder to is it. This what all these jackalopes Mueller, weissman and company have done.

    narciso (d1f714)

  236. Well, the way my favorite Platoon Sergeant explained it to me was, “There are two plays in the infantry game, find ’em, fix ’em, and finish ’em or let them find you, fix ’em and finish ’em. You show me an infantryman who’s never been ambushed and I’ll show you an infantryman who is either very good, very lucky, or very imaginary.
    11B40 (6abb5c) — 10/23/2017 @ 3:24 pm

    I take it from your MOS that you were a senior NCO. So I won’t quibble with you. What I was trying to say is that Army types have more experience with ground ambush than Sailors are likely to develop even after long service. We know about operational deception (OPDEC) don’t get me wrong. I can rig a desteroyer so that some Somali thinks it’s a container ship all night long. But we can’t breed back into the SEALs the foot soldier chromosomes.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  237. No! Special ops are not infantry. Ambushers do not knock on their door. They’re the ones who knock. (Scene from Breaking Bad)

    nk (dbc370)

  238. Using special ops for patrol, reconnaissance or peacekeeping is like using an Indy car to go grocery shopping.

    nk (dbc370)

  239. If course if you rely on time:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TIME/status/922570839060606978

    narciso (d1f714) — 10/23/2017 @ 3:01 pm

    Sure. Why not?

    I dealt in two kinds of time as far as the Marines in contact with enemy belligerents were concerned.

    Too Little and too late. Choose your poison.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  240. Myeshia Johnson says she still doesn’t know where her husband’s body was found (evidently, not in the Land Cruiser. And she says that because she was not allowed to look at the body, the casket could have been empty, for all she knows. (words to that effect)

    General Dunford said (in his testimony?) that, in certain cases, they recommend to the family that they do not look inside the casket, but actually it’s the family’s decision. Is that true, and if it is true, do they all know it? I suppose it is up to the family, since the casket gets turned over to them, but they might be feeling they are doing something illegal if they, or anyone close to them, take a peek.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  241. “There are two plays in the infantry game, find ’em, fix ’em, and finish ’em or let them find you, fix ’em and finish ’em.

    Finishing them is precisely what their orders were NOT to do.

    But to limit themselves to defense.

    Therefore the enemy used different than usual tactics.

    They retreated and came back for more, and retreated and came back for more.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  242. Now we don’t want to talk policy:www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/268192/american-soldiers-died-niger-because-obama-daniel-greenfield

    narciso (d1f714)

  243. All of this horsestuff over a phrase that all but the mouth-breathers or people with an axe to grind understand as to meaning of and intent. All to bash the POTUS.

    I call horsesh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (e7e3ee)

  244. General Dunford gave a briefing about what they know so far regarding the events in Niger. He is very impressive, but he is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It’s interesting that the military and/or Administration view this as something that needs the Chairman to do the briefing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  245. As long as it’s not Trump, DRJ. As long as it’s not Trump.

    #AlertTheDayCareStaff

    nk (dbc370)

  246. Greetings, nk: ( @ 243 (dbc370) —10/23/2017 @ 8:15 pm )

    Back in our Viet Nam War days lots of special ops did lots of recons and lots of patrols. I can recommend a book entitled “SOG” (for Studies and Observations Group) by a guy named Plaster about the Green Berets who did long range recons into Laos initially and later on Cambodia. They were groups of 5-10 and did the sneaky-peeky type of recpns. Green Berets also led recons-in-force patrols with their CIDG and larger mercenary groups. Similarly, Army Rangers did Long Range Recon Patrols (LRRPs) of a handful or two sized groups. I’ve also read about the British SAS doing recons and patrols in western Iraq.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  247. Light weapons..no body or vehicle armor…who send their own into the abyss without a coherent plan?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  248. General Dunford addressed it in detail, Ben burn, and also the additional questions they are investigating.

    DRJ (15874d)

  249. Does he address the questions I asked, Dry? I haven’t seen that detail..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  250. Thank you, 11B40. I defer to you.

    nk (dbc370)

  251. Dry=Drj

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  252. pulling out all stops
    beenburned pines for ben ghazi
    thru red manson lamps

    Colonel Haiku (e7e3ee)

  253. The Private’s parts are burning with desire as he contemplates which cities to set on fire.

    He waits for Santana winds to arrive

    Buys some accellerant to take his fantasy live

    A butane spark makes it real as his emotions congeal.

    It’s an addiction, you see, I’m outta my tree.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  254. Is there anyone who can admit they voted for Trump? He did win didn’t he?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 10/23/2017 @ 5:50 pm

    I can’t admit to that because I didn’t vote for Trump. It never happened. I voted down ticket. I was not a “Never Trump” but I was a strong Trump skeptic. Go back and look; I was commenting here all the while. Ask Rev. Hoagie. We had our hot differences then but I dare say remain friends now. I got accused of (not necessarily by him) of being secretly in support of Hillary Clinton because I wasn’t all in for Trump.

    But I am happy he’s President. I can admit to that.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  255. But I am happy he’s President. I can admit to that.

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 10/24/2017 @ 8:13 am

    See, Pat, this is how our politics get degraded. It’s not the white underclass. I’m not immune. I’m glad Trump got elected the same way I’m glad a thief isn’t taking more of my slice of the cake. That’s how I’ve been trained. You too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM74ZymGgKE

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  256. Ben bur, here is what General Dunford said about the incident:

    On the 3rd of October, 12 members of the U.S. Special Operations Task Force accompanied 30 Nigerien forces on a civil-military reconnaissance mission from the capital city of Niamey to an area near the village of Tongo Tongo,” he said. The village is located a little over 50 miles north of Niamey, and officials expected the chances of meeting an enemy were slight.

    The next day, Dunford said, the forces began moving back, when they were attacked by approximately 50 enemy using small-arms fire, rocket-propelled grenades and technical vehicles.

    “Approximately one hour after taking fire, the team requested support,” he said. “And within minutes the remotely piloted aircraft arrived overhead. Within an hour, French Mirage jets arrived on station.”

    Still later, French attack helicopters arrived on station, and a Niger quick-reaction force arrived.

    Firefight

    During the firefight, two U.S. soldiers were wounded and evacuated by French aircraft to Niamey, and that was consistent with the casualty evacuation plan that was in place for this particular operation, Dunford said.

    Three U.S. soldiers who were killed were evacuated the evening of Oct. 4, Dunford said.

    “At that time, Sergeant La David Johnson was still missing,” the general said.

    “On the evening of Oct. 6, Sergeant Johnson’s body was found and subsequently evacuated,” he said. “From the time the firefight was initiated until Sergeant Johnson’s body was recovered, French, Nigerien or U.S. forces remained in that area.”

    Note that a drone was on scene in minutes.

    General Dunford also identified questions that still need to be answered and that the military is investigating:

    The questions that need answers, he said, include:  Did the mission of U.S. forces change during the operation? Did U.S. forces have adequate intelligence, equipment and training? Was there a premission assessment of the threat in the area accurate? And, How did U.S. forces become separated during the engagement, specifically Sergeant Johnson?

    And, why didn’t they take time to find and recover Sergeant Johnson? Dunford said.

    “We owe the families of the fallen more information, and that’s what the investigation is designed to identify,” he said.

    DRJ (15874d)

  257. Yes. That’s what I saw and I hope best practices are carefully reviewed, Drj.

    Are Green Berets all that, anymore or have standards been reduced?

    I’ve noticed graduates from USC the last 20 years have slipped in quality. Production numbers everywhere seem to prevail over quality.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  258. 260.Is there anyone who can admit they voted for Trump? He did win didn’t he?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 10/23/2017 @ 5:50 pm

    I voted for Trump. I will again. My Asian wife, black son and daughter-in-law also voted for Trump. My best friend since I was 14 voted for him and so did his wife and they too are black. In fact I single-handedly delivered the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to Trump. Hopefully I’ll do it again unless you radical leftists can offer up a candidate to the right of Stalin I must vote Trump.

    Which one of these idiots are the Democrats running?

    http://patriotretort.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Village-Idiots.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  259. Take the political quiz…

    http://www.people-press.org/quiz/political-typology/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  260. Schools produce a different quality graduate, for sure. My feeling is that students are still bright but schools ask for different things than basic reading/writing skills, math, science, the classics, history, and even memorization — as they did in my day. I think students would be better off if they were still taught those things.

    DRJ (15874d)


  261. I think students would be better off if they were still taught those things.

    DRJ, I’d settle for them just not turning every kid into an anti American deconstructionist. They teach black kids attending $35k universities that they are oppressed victims of white privilege and even the white kids buy it out of the perpetuation of white guilt. They teach kids that America is evil, again slavery. That the only real equality seems to be that of outcome not of opportunity or under the law. These kids were lucky (privileged?) enough to have been born in the freest, wealthiest, safest, most productive and fair country and society ever and it’s that way due to freedom and free markets and property rights yet the kids think it’s oppressive. We did not become that way by accident and they are not deconstructing it by accident either.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  262. Mission creep. Where is the commensurate Obamaghazi outrage?

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/died-fighting-brothers-niger-ambush-survivor-fallen-us/story?id=50670787

    Ben burn (5f6042)

  263. Took your quiz, comrade Ben! Turns out I’m a “Core Conservative” according to PEW with only 13% of the population. I don’t agree but several questions were just ambiguous enough for me to settle for one of their, skewed left answers.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  264. It sounds to me like the Green Berets, these particular ones anyway, were there as “advisors”, to train Nigerien (sic, not Nigerian) soldiers in the field. (Which was their original mission when they were formed during the Vietnam War.)

    It’s important, because it means they were not being “misused” as regular infantry or peacekeepers, although the Nigerien soldiers they were advising may very well have been both.

    nk (dbc370)

  265. Green berets are always there to advise and train. The are force %*@!ing multipliers.

    Ask me how I know.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  266. “I think students would be better off if they were still taught those things.”

    DRJ,

    How can they be when geometry is just an example of white privilege? Apparently pi marks the boundary of the great racial divide.

    Rick Ballard (6a5693)

  267. How do you know, Steve57?

    nk (dbc370)

  268. I have a cousin, about fifteen years older, who was in Marine Recon during Vietnam. I was sixteen when he came back, and I wanted to hear how he was crawling through the jungle with a knife between his teeth. He told me how he rode around in helicopters and made marks on maps. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  269. OMG, Rick!

    To resolve the intelligence gap, Gutierrez calls on math professors to develop a sense of “political conocimiento,” a Spanish term for “political knowledge for teaching.”

    Talk about your Hispanic privilege.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  270. Because I went to a couple of African American conferences with a half white Green Beret with a Japanese last name. It was UI^%ing hilarious. I wish you were there.

    Also his friends. Once they learned I wasn’t going to cry.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  271. 269… they don’t call it Pew for nothin’, Hoagie!

    Colonel Haiku (e7e3ee)

  272. It sounds like the US is in charge of the drones that responded within minutes, but the French or Germans are in charge of the bases.

    DRJ (d18ca6)

  273. Your welcome Hoagie. I’m glad you’re political ID has petrified.

    Ben burn (5f6042)

  274. felipe,

    I’m amazed to learn the Hispanics I observed over thirty years quickly utilizing the Pythagorean theorem on a daily basis to check for square in layout were laboring under such a tremendous disadvantage. I suppose I’ll just have to chalk their rapid advancement up to sheer luck.

    If only they had been able to determine the square root of political conocimiento more of them could have become successful business owners.

    The prof in question is just part of the movement to remove college algebra as a degree requisite. The hurdle is just proving a bridge too far for too many who are parked in the wrong place.

    Rick Ballard (6a5693)

  275. Not everyone should go to college

    Ben burn (5f6042)

  276. I’ll bet you more Hispanic students know how many grams are in an ounce than white students do. Not to mention how many square feet of coverage are in a 12 oz can of spray paint.

    nk (dbc370)

  277. White trash know that the gold spray paint covers the nose and mouth.

    steveg (22ba8e)

  278. From Trump I would have preferred a statement that the grieving widow of an American hero has the right to say whatever she wants.

    The impulse control center in his brain needs some exercise

    steveg (22ba8e)

  279. 249.

    General Dunford gave a briefing about what they know so far regarding the events in Niger. He is very impressive,

    What he revealed about the state of his knowledge wasn’t so impressive, but it did add some details and correct some errors, or possible errors, in the New York Times account:

    1. There were not 100 enemy, but 50. They were almost equally matched in numbers, not outnumbered 2-1 (50 vs 42)

    2. The town of Tongo Tongo was 50 miles from Niamey. (Does it take two hours to travel 50 miles there? Maybe. Could have something to do with road conditions, width of road and type of vehicles.)

    3. It was an overnight mission. They slept over in Tongo Tongo, and nothing of interest happened on the way there. (or is that right?) All of this started when they left.

    4. There were 12 Special forces, not all of them actual Green Berets, (2 of the four dead were not) and 30 Nigerien soldiers.

    That 4 out of the 12 were killed, and 2 others wounded severely enough to be evacuated by helicopter, should almost establish by itself that the purpose of the enemy attack was to kill American soldiers, nothing more and nothing less, with the further intent of getting the United States to withdraw from Niger, or from the border region.

    5. There are altogether 800 U.S. troops in Niger, along with 4,000 French troops (many maybe members of the French Foreign Legion?) and some others. This is not NATO, but it a multinational force.

    6. There are altogether 6,000 U.S. troops in 53 African countries, I think that includes the Marine embassy guards and military attaches..

    6. The initial statement by the Pentagon that it took 30 minutes for French airplane to arrive was based on the travel time. Actually it took the pilots 30 minutes to get ready to board their planes and it took an hour previous to that also for them to be called.

    7. The initial encounter when people on motorbikes were chased or followed to the borer is missing, at least from the news accounts I read or heard. I would guess at this point that this happened on the second day, October 4, when they first started to leave and they then went back to the village)

    8. There is conflicting information.

    9. He’s going to look into if and why Myeshia Johnson was denied permission to view the body. That’s not policy.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  280. He’s going to look into if and why Myeshia Johnson was denied permission to view the body. That’s not policy.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d) — 10/24/2017 @ 11:40 am

    You’re, not hunter, I take it?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  281. 262.

    The questions that need answers, he said, include: Did the mission of U.S. forces change during the operation?

    It didn’t, and that was the problem. It didn’t change even after they were ambushed and came under fire. So the terrrorists had lots of bites at the apple.

    Did U.S. forces have adequate intelligence, equipment and training?

    No they did not have adequate intelligence. They still think the people who attacked them did not come from across the border with Mali. Highly unlikely. They did not monitor radio frequencies. For the ambush to work, different people had to co-ordinate what they were doing. There are probably few, if any, landlines in Niger. It was all by radio or cellphone. Possibly on an unmonitored frequency, or possibly standard cellphones. If in the open, and unencrypted, possibly in an obscure language (not French or English anyway) and in code.

    They also had bad intelligence. That story that the leader of the Islamacists was periodically going to Tongo Tongo in person is incredible! It was intended to draw some U.S. soldiers to the area, and it did. (Killing the enemy commander is of the things they would modify their mission for)

    The United States is a sucker for this kind of disinformation about the leaders or the commanders of hostile forces. Sometimes it is true, as when someone wants to get rid of a subordinate or a rival. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi did that a lot. I mean he got the Obama to kill most of his rivals. of course they couldn’t kill him, since he was supplying the information. I think he later got rid of a possible challenger the same way, too. Got a U.S. drone to kill him.

    And then there’s the counterintelligence. This clearly was no good, as the terrorists knew they were there in the village. You know, the village chief was suspected of being on the side of the terrorists. And you know what? They turned out to be right about that, just not in the ay they thought.

    Was there a premission assessment of the threat in the area accurate?

    ??? It sounds like two questions got jumbled there. There must have been some sort of assessment, and of course it turned out not be accurate.

    And, How did U.S. forces become separated during the engagement, specifically Sergeant Johnson?

    They all got separated from each other, then didn’t realize that one vehicle was missing.

    And, why didn’t they take time to find and recover Sergeant Johnson? Dunford said.

    Noobody was counting maybe. How many evacuated, how many here, is anyone missing?

    The questions that need answers, he said, include: Did the mission of U.S. forces change during the operation? Did U.S. forces have adequate intelligence, equipment and training? Was there a premission assessment of the threat in the area accurate? And, How did U.S. forces become separated during the engagement, specifically Sergeant Johnson?

    And, why didn’t they take time to find and recover Sergeant Johnson? Dunford said.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  282. Because archery season Opens in the A-Zone in July.

    Ever see what happens to meet in the northern hemisphere or the tropics in July?

    Again, you’re not a hunter. I can’t find game that runs 75 yards without a dog.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  283. 286. Right. But what’s the relevance? A creature shot by bullets doesn’t look appetizing?

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  284. The point isn’t that maybe it’s wiser not to look at the body, the question is was she denied permission. Not whether she was warned.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)


  285. 281.Not everyone should go to college
    Ben burn (5f6042) — 10/24/2017 @ 11:18 am

    That is absolutely correct, comrade. Just like not everyone should be admitted into America.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  286. According to Dunford there were people who remained in the area. They just got out the special forces or some of them. he was eventually found by Nigerien troops/ They had thought he mht still be alive (because they didn’t see his body)

    They had a ping coming from something on his person but they couldn’t locate it, and then it got weaker and finally faded out.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  287. This thread is long. Did Steve57 ever apologize to me for twisting my words, as I requested at163?

    Patterico (61ec6b)

  288. Could they even deny her permission? Unless there was risk of contagion by some horrible disease and the casket was sealed in accordance with safety and sanitation laws? And even then it would only mean that it could be opened, and resealed, only under hazmat conditions. Don’t believe everything you read in the papers.

    nk (dbc370)

  289. The widow claims she was denied permission.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  290. Hoagie @291. Not the same thing.

    Ben burn said not everyone should go to college, not not everyone should be given a chance to go to college. That something may be inadvisable is not saying the same thing as saying that it should be forbidden.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  291. Yes, and Trump called her because he is a racist and wanted to disrespect her to her face. What she heard, what she understood, is not necessarily what she was told.

    I’m really tired of this lady.

    nk (dbc370)

  292. I doubt that sammeh, more likely he had been there in the past.

    narciso (2ab53c)

  293. This thread is long. Did Steve57 ever apologize to me for twisting my words, as I requested at163?

    Patterico (61ec6b) — 10/24/2017 @ 12:10 pm

    I take it at your word that I have done so. It is not a remarkable thing as despite my best efforts to be accurate I have done so in the past.

    A recounting would be nice so as I could address the situation and maybe mount a defense.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  294. As you say, the thread is long. I may have missed that exchange.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  295. Patterico: It is possible for someone to miss the fact that saying that Trump thinks his base is racist, is different from saying that his base actually is.

    And comment 14 doesn’t help if someone didn’t read it. (and you need to read comment 14 in conunction with comment 11 to understand it)

    Sometimes you have to really, really, spell things out I think.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  296. And of course you can miss comment 163 along with comment 14.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  297. The U.S mission in Niger was probably to contain ISIS. That is, prevent it from getting a foothold in yet another country.

    Getting rid of it in Mali (and other neighboring countries) would have been costly in both blood and treasure. Letting it expand could result in the declaration of another caliphate, and at some point they might have to fight it. This could be done it looked like with little risk or effort and looked like the golden middle ground to Obama. He was very enamored of drones and other kinds of special forces.

    Sammy Finkelman (20d02d)

  298. “he knew what he signed up for” Had Obama said that, it would have been acknowledged as a tribute to the man’s knowing courage.
    He didn’t have to choose Infantry, but he did. He didn’t have to go through Airborne school, but he volunteered and made his jumps. He didn’t have to go through the tortuous Ranger School, but he signed up for it and he finished it. He didn’t have to bust his butt to qualify for SF, but he did, and then he completed the training.
    Every step he took was on the way to where he was, fighting the enemy in odd and unfamiliar places.
    It’s a testimony to his drive and ability and, most of all, courage.
    There are two kinds of people taking this the wrong way; anti-Trumpers who know better and hope others don’t, and those too stupid to breathe without flash cards.

    Richard Aubrey (0d7df4)

  299. …Did Steve57 ever apologize to me for twisting my words, as I requested at163?

    Patterico (61ec6b) — 10/24/2017 @ 12:10 pm

    If I knew earlier, I would have gotten back earlier.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  300. It’s not an excuse but a fact. It’s not possible to see every comment on every thread. I just noticed this one.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  301. S

    o, you’ve bought into the idea that Trump’s base is racist. Congrats. Kudos. Huzzahs. How L.A. of you.

    How very wherever the hell you live of you to ignore my comment 14. I await your apology.

    By the way, your interpretation was a stretch even before I explicitly said I wasn’t saying that.
    Patterico (ed5491) — 10/23/2017 @ 5:11 pm

    My interpretation was wrong. I apologize. I am sincerely sorry.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  302. You expressly rejected elitism. Again, my fervent apologies.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)


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