Patterico's Pontifications

7/17/2017

A Ringing Defense Of Donald Trump From A Very Unlikely Source

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:26 am

No matter what you think of Donald Trump — not much, in my case — all sensible people agree that he has been the subject of many unfair attacks from the news media and elsewhere. A few days ago, a long list of such attacks was compiled by a very unlikely source: Snopes.com, which is usually absurdly left-leaning when it comes to political issues. The surprising and excellent piece is titled The Lies of Donald Trump’s Critics, and How They Shape His Many Personas. The deck headline reads: “An in-depth analysis of the false allegations and misleading claims made against the 45th President since his inauguration.”

Dan McGuill, the author of the piece, selects four categories of calumny against Trump. I’ll give you a short excerpt from each category to whet your appetite for the full piece:

  • Donald Trump: International Embarrassment

Take, for example, the claim that Trump was the only world leader at a G7 summit in May not to take notes, based on a photograph posted to Twitter by French President Emannuel Macron. Here Trump was portrayed as unprepared and out of his depth on the world stage, with a “ten-second attention span”. However, the claim was entirely untrue, with other images and video of the meeting showing that Trump did indeed have notes and a pen. Not only that, but the very image used to make the false claim clearly shows two other world leaders sitting with no note-taking paraphernalia. In this case, even the cherry-picked evidence chosen to make the point undermines it.

  • Trump the Tyrant

Then there was the satirical article that reported Trump had signed an executive order declaring himself the popular vote winner in 2016’s presidential election, or the claim that he had imposed martial law in Chicago, using a video of a police tank which has been in use since 2010.

  • Donald Trump: Bully baby

Sometimes these claims seem plausible enough to gain even more credibility and traction. In April, Trump met the public at the traditional White House Easter Egg Roll. A teenaged boy asked him to sign his “Make America Great Again” hat, and the President obliged, but appeared to toss the hat in the air.

This was presented as a callous act from a bullying, villainous Donald Trump by observers such as the Resistance Report web site, which wrote ” Trump Just Ruined This Kid’s Day at the Easter Egg Roll.” However, another camera angle clearly shows that Trump was playfully tossing the hat back to the boy, who happily receives the hat and walks away. This video was posted to Twitter 42 minutes after the original:

But even without the second camera angle, Occam’s Razor comes into play once again. Does it make sense that Donald Trump, asked by an enthusiastic young man to sign a hat bearing his iconic slogan, would sign the hat and then, smiling, deliberately throw it away from the boy? Or is it more likely that Trump was being playful with someone who acted admiringly towards him, and tossed the hat in the air with the intention of giving it back to the boy?

  • Trump the Buffoon

Almost instantly, Trump was mocked for citing as an Irish proverb a poem written by a Nigerian man.
[]
The entire episode is a remarkable example of something bordering on collective hallucination, most likely brought on by confirmation bias. Here hundreds of thousands of people — including professional journalists working for influential news organizations, and a chat show host with more than three million nightly viewers — literally heard Trump say something he never said, in most cases probably because it confirmed a pre-existing image of the President as a poorly read, culturally ignorant buffoon.

Of course, one thing that feeds these falsehoods is the fact that Trump has aspects of his personality that are embarrassing, tyrannical, bullying, and buffoonish.

It has to be acknowledged that since January, many of Trump’s opponents, and even lukewarm supporters, have found considerable fault with his policies and behavior, based on accurate facts. There have been many occasions when Trump himself, undistorted and unfiltered, contributed mightily to the four personas we have outlined.

Indeed, even if you are a fierce opponent of the President, you should be an equally fierce opponent of manufactured stories designed to make him look bad. Because those stories undercut the genuine criticism he often deserves — and give his supporters a lazy way to dismiss as exaggerations even valid points about his character or behavior.

Snopes.com has a deserved reputation for left-leaning political bias. This piece undoes some of the damage the site has done to its own reputation for honesty … honesty which ought to be, and in this case is, integral to the brand of a site built to debunks myths and lies. This is a win for them and for us. And for integrity.

Fact-checkers of the world, take note. This is how you do it.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

106 Responses to “A Ringing Defense Of Donald Trump From A Very Unlikely Source”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. If your opponent is of choleric temper, irritate him.

    Sun Tzu

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  3. Aw, man! So Trump DID NOT remove the LGBT categories from the 2020 census? Bummer. And there I was starting to like him.

    nk (dbc370)

  4. John Nolte at Daily Wire on how playing it square on a severely tilted playing field is a losing game:

    “Oh, how easy it would be to join the sanctimonious mob, how easy to pretend I am not thrilled over Team Trump’s willingness to play just as dirty as the Democrats and their media — this crime family that allows the Obama campaign to accuse Romney of killing a woman, that allows Hillary to serial lie about four Americans she left to die in Benghazi, that allows the Clinton Foundation to reap hundreds of millions of dollars from foreign countries in exchange for government favors, that allows Bill Clinton to double his speech fees after Hillary gave our uranium to Putin, that allows bleach bits and hammers and deletes and wipes and IRS persecution and Fast & Furious and phones and pens and pallets of cash to Iranian terrorists.

    If you want to pine away for a moral world that will never be, all you’re doing is walking into a trap set by the very people who want everything you hold dear destroyed. And because your moral preening sacrifices all of us, not just yourself, there is nothing righteous about it. Striding into that trap again and again with your virtue flag flying high as you play by a rigged game with rigged rules that declare “Whataboutism” off limits, is the very definition of insanity.

    Sorry, but if you want to hold our side to a standard Democrats will never be held to, your moral narcissism is selfishly sentencing your country to life with a series of Barack Obamas; selfishly condemning your own Party to a series of Romneys and McCains.

    Hey, I wish the world was different, was better, just and righteous. I honestly do. And it took me a long time to wake up. I was 46-years-old when I watched the media allow Team Obama to get away with accusing a Mormon of murder.

    And it was then that I finally put away those childish things.”

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/18503/donald-trump-jr-wanted-dirt-hillary-russian-govt-—-john-nolte

    harkin (23c945)

  5. I’m not sure I agree with Nolte’s claim that it would be “easy” to take sides against Donald Trump, while it’s a difficult and lonely slog to support him.

    But it is interesting to read a full-throated defense of sinking to the low standards of your opponents. It does require a certain willful blindness, however. Because he is going to continue to criticize the other side for the same sort of low behavior he is excusing in Trump’s team and himself. If he cheerfully praised their behavior and simply criticized their goals, he would be immoral but at least he would not be a hypocrite. Since he will continue to criticize their behavior, he is both.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  6. By the way, I am totally fine with asking “what about?” things the other side did that are similar to what your side is being criticized for.

    It becomes “whataboutism” when it’s your only response to criticism.

    I reject tribalism. But then, I’ve never been much of a joiner.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  7. Fact-checkers of the world, take note.

    Is fact checking still a thing? It’s been so long…

    ay (7b1435)

  8. John Nolte is not talking about any side I’m on. He’s talking about making Trump great, not making America great, and Trump is not my side. I really don’t want Trump to be President so much that I won’t “morally preen” about his campaign playing footsies with Russian gangsters.

    And Hillary did not give away our uranium to Putin, as if another coffin nail was needed for Mr. Nolte’s credibility.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. Trump H8rs are everywhere… even amongst people you previously thought were wiser than that.

    which is why you haven’t seen this nick here since last summer.

    Hillary Clinton will never be POTUS, and if it took @realDonaldTrump to do it, it was, and is, worth it. and no, none of the “acceptable” RINOs were going to beat her (please clap)

    if that’s not enough of an incentive for you there’s SecDef Mad Dog Mattis, Justice Gorsuch (not Garland)just to mention 2 wins out of many, for those that would see…

    is he perfect? no.
    is he better than the alternative? hell to the yes. (YMMV)

    i’m off to enjoy the day’s #winning.
    Schadenboner status: diamond cutter

    redc1c4 (65da08)

  10. Thing is, no one should have to exaggerate his reptilian highness. Why gild the lily?

    Ben burn (5a19ff)

  11. Nolte is trying to make a principled argument for having no principles.

    But if you do it the way he wants, the result is simply a contest to decide who rapes whom. It’s saying the Left is actually correct about how to play the game, merely wrong about the final winner.

    Remember the verse from the Bible that says “Justice justice shall you pursue”? The word “justice” is said twice in a row, and the Talmud takes note of that. Its first comment is that the first one is adjectival: we are told to pursue a just justice. Which implies that there is such a thing as unjust justice, and the Talmud then says what “just justice” is: just methods used to produce a just result.

    In shorter English, the ends never justify the means.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  12. If you are willing to lie for Donald Trump, or swallow any lie for Donald Trump, I know how much credence in what you have to say.

    If you are willing to lie to defeat Donald Trump, or swallow any lie becuse it defames Donald Trump, I know how much credence in what you have to say.

    Appalled (96665e)

  13. none of the “acceptable” RINOs were going to beat her

    Don’t be so sure of that. There were lots of people like me who voted third party because Clinton and Trump were equally unfit for the office. Had an “acceptable RINO” won, I would have voted for him, and I am sure lots of others would have done the same.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  14. “By the way, I am totally fine with asking “what about?” things the other side did that are similar to what your side is being criticized for.”

    I disagree with Nolte on that too but not because both sides are similarly guilty, but because the democrats have a Mount Everest-sized pile of scandals and lies covered up by the media and the Republicans (incl. Trump & Co.) have an anthill of transgressions that the MSM is telling everyone will be the downfall of the union.

    To me the most intriguing thing about Nolte’s piece is the implication: “how far will you let them go if your tactics are being overwhelmed by a dishonest MSM?”

    Europe is dealing with this too in regards to both Euro. Union statism and the open borders/refugee invasion. If they let them go far enough, the problems build to a point where there are no solutions except unfortunate ones.

    harkin (23c945)

  15. John Nolte at Daily Wire on how playing it square on a severely tilted playing field is a losing game:

    Matthew 5:39, when last I read it, did not say “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, then you should knock the blighter down lest he think he can do it again.”

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  16. Matthew 23 more instructive for the fake Faithful.

    Ben burn (5a19ff)

  17. nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/tillersons-frustrations-21539?page=2

    narciso (d1f714)

  18. The author has proven to be legendarily wrong

    narciso (d1f714)

  19. Paul Pillar is a sleazy and cowardly deeply anti-American ex-CIA dorkwad

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  20. he’s like Evan McMullin without the bawdy sense of humor

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  21. narciso, do you mean Pillar? Or Nolte?

    The only one who knows how frustrated Tillerson is is Tillerson, so I read Pillar’s article more as in insight into what Pillar thinks than what Tillerson thinks. And having not heard of Pillar before (that I can remember) I have no special interest in knowing what Pillar thinks.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  22. The theme I see with just about every Trump complaint is that it’s an attack on his character, which is an easy target. There are very few policy attacks. It really just seems to me like the Democrats/MSM can’t get out of campaign mode.

    His policy positions always feel like he’ll never stick with it, you’re never safe his view won’t change for the most part. To his credit though, he does seem to be firmly a Capitalist at least…and these days, that is saying something.

    Dejectedhead (0c7c2f)

  23. Matthew 5:39, when last I read it, did not say “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, then you should knock the blighter down lest he think he can do it again.”

    I don’t remember anything from Old or New Testament that goes further than “an eye for an eye” as you just did.

    harkin (23c945)

  24. Pillar he put together the 2002 and 2007 nines but pretended he had nothing to with the former, and ignored the sourcing on the second.

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. Every bit of fake or omitted news is designed to prevent any changes to rumpus policies:

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/07/17/los-angeles-times-denies-request-correct-false-claims-disgraced-columnist-michael-hiltzik/#.WWzF3x1uK8w.twitter

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. Media messaging to support the DNC goes like this:

    Make them hate them (GOP) and we don’t need good policies.

    Dejectedhead (0c7c2f)

  27. If you’re going to start quoting the Bible to make political points perhaps you should also start quoting the Koran. How do you think that would work out?

    Or we can admit we’re all sinners, even those who quote the Bible in politics, and continue without the implied virtue of Bible quoters. If we’re going to ask WWJD when we’re fighting for the very survival of the Republic against people who have neither belief in nor fear of God we gonna loooose. Bad! I learned in Vietnam you can’t treat a commie like a Christian.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  28. I’ve had reservations,about her but on this oint:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/07/17/doe-civil-rights-office-neutral/

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. Hoagie, if you mean assume the Commie is not going to act like a believer, than obviously true. If you mean the Commie’s behavior excuses you from acting like a believer, then just as obviously false.

    The command to love your fellowman is absolute and always in force, and applies to every human being in their actions with every other human being. That others disobey the command does not justify your disobedience.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  30. I think the problem really started in earnest with Wilson according to an except that Mark Levin found, he basically dismissed the declaration’s purpose (it may have been Hegelian influence) one can see how he was so eagervto resegregrate the dc public schools

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. Fact-checkers of the world, take note. This is how you do it.

    Yes, “take note” – as Tammy Faye Clownway told us on the TeeVee– that there’s always ways to ‘undo the do it’ with “alternative facts.”

    ______

    Today’s Beldar the Bitter ‘Watergate, Watergate, Watergate’ Words of Wonder:

    “Well, the point is, Bob, let’s face it, the secretaries know, the assistants know. There’s a lot of the, many of the damn principals may be hard as a rock, but you never know when they’re going to crack. But, so, we’ll see, we’ll see. First you’ve got the Hunt problem. That ought to be handled.” – President Nixon mulling over Watergate cover-up issues w/HR Haldeman and immediate need to pay hush money to Watergate plumber Howard Hunt, secret White House Oval office tapes, March 21, 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. Right tell us,again how,it is,brave to be against trump, it’s an extended two minute from dawn till the next day

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/07/trump-voters-trashed-by-liberals-your-parents-should-have-aborted-you/

    narciso (17ee03)

  33. Don’t be so sure of that. There were lots of people like me who voted third party because Clinton and Trump were equally unfit for the office. Had an “acceptable RINO” won, I would have voted for him, and I am sure lots of others would have done the same.

    kishnevi (bb03e6) — 7/17/2017 @ 8:21 am

    Would you have voted for Ted Cruz? What state are you in?

    NJRob (b34b13)

  34. I’ve had reservations,about her but on this oint:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/07/17/doe-civil-rights-office-neutral/

    narciso (d1f714) — 7/17/2017 @ 10:36 am

    It’s about time we start rolling back many of the misandrist policies that are in place on university campuses.

    Great news from the administration.

    NJRob (b34b13)

  35. 28, elucidate. You’ve had some reservations on school choice as do i, mainly that if demand outstrips supply it can become a 1 way busing program.

    urbanleftbehind (3c804a)

  36. ‘The command to love your fellowman is absolute and always in force, and applies to every human being in their actions with every other human being. That others disobey the command does not justify your disobedience.’

    Apparently, the awareness amongst the Faithful makes Jesus a fake example to follow.

    Ben burn (5a19ff)

  37. The,underlying non knowledge based template

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/449560/iqran-nuclear-deal-mcmaster-trump-move-certify-deal-congress

    Personnel is,policy, so to throw out it Flynn is more than a mistake, it’s a crime.

    narciso (17ee03)

  38. Let Capitaine Renault explain:

    “I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  39. “I’m shocked, SHOCKED to learn there’s gambling going on…”

    The public deserves to know who is coming to meet with the president and his staff,” CREW Executive Director Noah Bookbinder said. “We are glad that as a result of this case, this information will become public for meetings at his his personal residences—but it needs to be public for meetings at the White House as well.”

    CREW, NSA and Knight sued for the release of visitor logs from the White House, Mar-a-Lago and Trump Tower. DHS claims to have no records of visitors at Trump Tower. The lawsuit is ongoing for the White House.

    The Obama administration began releasing White House visitor logs in September 2009 to settle four lawsuits brought by CREW.

    Ben burn (5a19ff)

  40. I’m not sure I agree with Nolte’s claim that it would be “easy” to take sides against Donald Trump, while it’s a difficult and lonely slog to support him.

    There are a lot of people who would fear for their livelihood if they became known as Trump supporters. People in the arts, blue state government, many corporations. Just look at what happened to Brendan Eich for supporting Prop 8.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  41. Trump Tower: World’s largest washing machine.

    Ben burn (5a19ff)

  42. @kishnevi:Had an “acceptable RINO” won, I would have voted for him, and I am sure lots of others would have done the same.

    But the Obama voters who voted for Trump would not have voted for a RINO, or even the real deal. And the Blue Wall would have held.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  43. So what do we know now:

    1) Paul and Collins are hard “No” who will not give a courtesy “yes” on a motion to proceed
    2) Democrats won’t give a courtesy vote match (ie one Democrat not voting to match McCain)
    3) The CBO will have gotten at least another week to score the Cruz amendment
    4) More time to pressure expansion state Republican governors to pressure their Republican senators.
    5) Sure nice to have good insurance to take care of problems when they pop up.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  44. @ben burn:Sure nice to have good insurance to take care of problems when they pop up.

    Vast majority of the country does, and did before Obamacare, and will after this goes through, since they get it through their employers. The whole system had to be upended, for some reason, to accommodate the others.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  45. There is a habit among Left and Right to re-litigate the 2016 election to avoid dealing with today, or excusing one of Trump’s offenses. But it isn’t 2016 anymore, and the circumstances we have are influenced by the pathologies of the Trump Presidency. So, to say “other people would not have won” as an answer for whatever might be appalling today — only sounds good in an echo chamber. Because what we are discussing or dealing with are the circumstances Trump has tweeted into existence, not some alternate dystopia where Hillary is President.

    Appalled (96665e)

  46. Better than the “lack of note-taking” meme was the feeding frenzy at the May G7 when the MSM wrongly determined that Trump declined to wear translation phones ( he wore his usual small earpiece instead of the headphones provided):

    Trump obviously speaks fluent Italian so there is no need for headphones for translation,” – Huffington Post

    Donald Trump caught pretending to listen at G7 summit” – UK Daily Mirror

    Trump disinterested in what Gentiloni had to say.” – Der Spiegel

    Maybe he will listen to translation later : ) “– Andrea Mitchell NBC

    He must be fluent in Italian” – CNBC

    The bad thing is that these idiotic, unconfirmed tweets/reports were copied by the thousands and used to reinforce a false narrative.

    harkin (23c945)

  47. @ben burn:Sure nice to have good insurance to take care of problems when they pop up.

    That’s why your auto insurance covers gas, oil changes, and engine rebuilds and your homeowner’s insurance covers the cost of lawn care and new carpets when the old wear out.

    Oh, wait, none of that insurance covers any of those things. Because that insurance is intended to cover contingent and expensive events such as auto accidents and house fires, leaving routine and expected expenses up to the consumer to handle as best fits their lifestyle and priorities. Adults managing their own affairs as they see fit, what lunacy.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  48. @Harkin:The bad thing is that these idiotic, unconfirmed tweets/reports were copied by the thousands and used to reinforce a false narrative.

    Principled criticism of something substantive That Trump Did is one thing; joining the Zerg rush because it fits one’s preconceived notions of what kind of person Trump is, and assuming it’s true and never correcting the record later, is quite a different thing.

    The second thing is what true conservatives used to call “fake but accurate”, but that was when Bush was the recipient. But it’s the same people in journalism now as was then.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  49. ” The whole system had to be upended, for some reason, to accommodate the others.”

    Yes. The costs of healthcare was unsustainable and record keeping, approval for procedure glacial and prehistoric in 2008. It’s Better now even with rumpublican IEDs to ‘help’ it fail.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  50. How is it better Burnie boy?

    NJRob (b34b13)

  51. @ben burn:The costs of healthcare was unsustainable and record keeping, approval for procedure glacial and prehistoric in 2008.

    None of which changed for most people after 2008–because again, most people had insurance through their employers. Most people DID see their premiums go up, which they were promised would not happen, and most people saw their networks shrink, which they were promised would not happen.

    Which critics of Obamacare did predict at the time. And people who were alive in 2008 do actually remember that health care was not a dystopian wasteland then, but you might fool some kids.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  52. @Appalled:There is a habit among Left and Right to re-litigate the 2016 election to avoid dealing with today, or excusing one of Trump’s offenses.

    That might be why some do it, but many others, perhaps most, understand that life is a series of compromises and tradeoffs, and that’s why the context of what else was on the table, could you go back and your vote over again, is so important and keeps coming up.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  53. Personal experience…

    Spouse needed MRI for kidney stone…much pain, discomfort. Dr gives prescription we go straight to lab. “I’m sorry, it will take 10 days for insurance approval…” 10 days of Hell? Yup, in the recent past, but wait!, as we’re leaving the guy catches us with a shocked look says ‘I just got IMMEDIATE APPROVAL…that never happened before.’

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  54. That was December 2012.

    Faster approvals, digital upgrades lead to public confidence and well being.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  55. 47 – Frederick

    Good points.

    Also remember that for those who say:

    @ben burn:Sure nice to have good insurance to take care of problems when they pop up.

    Considering that Obamacare requires people to pay for coverage they don’t need (e.g. forcing seniors to buy prenatal coverage), even things that will never pop up are covered (and require $$).

    But then that’s the point of the scheme, in order to maximize the funding to cover those who won’t pay for their own coverage, you have to force those who do pay for themselves to not only pay increased rates for what they do want, but also buy coverage they’ll never use.

    harkin (23c945)

  56. Why do you persist in the Cult of ignorance? Are you pretending not to comprehend the way insurance works?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  57. why would someone need a $5,000 MRI for a kidney stone, the X-rays weren’t expensive enough?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  58. 56.Why do you persist in the Cult of ignorance? Are you pretending not to comprehend the way insurance works?

    We all know how insurance works we just can’t figure out how Obamacare works.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  59. Heh. Why would anyone be charged $65k for outpatient Lithotripsy?

    Are you a dunce?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  60. A day in the life of Donald Trump’s Made In America Week:

    Shirts from Bangladesh.
    Ties stitched in China.
    Suits and shoes– Italian.
    Watches– Swiss made.
    Socks weaved in New Zealand.
    Boxers sewn in Vietnam.

    Breakfast: French toast, Canadian bacon, Columbian coffee, decaf.
    Lunch: Taco bowl and a Perrier.
    Dinner: Chicken Kiev (4) drenched in English butter; German chocolate cake; San Pellegrino, chilled.

    Lies: Made in U.S.A.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. But the Obama voters who voted for Trump would not have voted for a RINO, or even the real deal. And the Blue Wall would have held.

    FAR offset by the normal GOP voters who could not vote for Trump. There were many alternatives other than voting for Hillary, including staying home.

    And I remind you, Trump barely squeaked through.

    It’s also funny to hear Trump called a real Republican and people who’ve been working in and for the part for decades called “RINOs”. This usually happens with people who suffer the delusion that the GOP is a conservative party.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  62. @Ben burn:Faster approvals, digital upgrades lead to public confidence and well being.

    You showed one example. For every one of those, you can be shown a counter-example.

    So why don’t you go collect mean and standard deviation wait times for authorizations, pre- and post-2009. I’ll wait.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  63. We all know how insurance works we just can’t figure out how Obamacare works.

    It’s just like other insurance except you also pay for the risk of insuring deadbeats with previously untreated ailments.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  64. @Kevin M:FAR offset by the normal GOP voters who could not vote for Trump.

    Hence the popular vote total, perhaps. But place won by Obama were lost by Hillary and that is why Trump is president. You can’t just aggregate the votes. Obama voters in the Blue Wall states elected Trump. Texan True Conservatives put off by Trump didn’t elect Hillary.

    Though our media breathlessly reported that Texas was turning blue….

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  65. See that’s the problem. No matter how many personal, real life solutions to problems, it won’t be enough to dissuade you from your mindset of concrete.

    Galtright Autism would be my unprofessional opinion.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  66. “On Thursday, President Trump will officially have been in office for six months, and his term so far has included a few victories (the nomination and confirmation of Neil Gorsuch to the U.S. Supreme Court), plenty of frustrations (court battles over his travel ban, delays in efforts to overhaul health care) and lots of controversy (accusations that members of his campaign colluded with Russia to interfere with the 2016 election). Put all those wins and losses together, and it adds up to this: Barring a sudden turnaround this week, Trump will conclude his first six months in office as the most unpopular president, at that point in his first term, since modern polling began.”

    If McCain cries ‘give’ to his stateside Tormenter and Trumpcare passes imagine how popular in six months…lol.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  67. @Ben burn:No matter how many personal, real life solutions to problems, it won’t be enough to dissuade you from your mindset of concrete.

    I asked you for statistics. This is how you decline, by telling me I have a mindset of concrete?

    I asked for evidence, dear boy, and got name-calling. It’s okay, I know you don’t have the evidence.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  68. Frederick: Condescension is the shallow retort of an insecure sort.

    If you think you’re up to debating me I’ll oblige but subject matter may be more hyperbolic than your conservative worldview can focus on. You don’t get dictator debate privileges so control of the discussion may elude you.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  69. Let’s start with PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE…explain how healthcare is not germane on this clause.

    Frederick?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  70. @ben burn: I see more words and invective, but not the evidence I requested. You made a claim, insurance companies are more responsive due to Obamacare, and cited one anecdote. I asked for the statistics to substantiate your claims, you responded with insults, on which you have doubled down.

    You don’t get dictator debate privileges so control of the discussion may elude you.

    No, I don’t. Consider, however, what is your aim in the discussion. Is it to persuade anyone? Because what you cannot control, is the conclusions that the audience to this discussion comes due after seeing a civil request for evidence met with insults and invective.

    Let’s start with PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE…explain how healthcare is not germane on this clause.

    Not interested. Want to know if you have evidence to back the assertion you made. So far it would seem you have not.

    Maybe you think the government should be in the business of making insurance companies more compliant, but that’s not what I asked you. I asked you for statistical evidence that they were more compliant.

    I was met only with invective and abuse. I conclude you have no evidence and that you are not operating in good faith. I am not the only one here who so concludes.

    You can prove us all wrong, by civilly citing your statistical evidence.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  71. 69 – does ‘promote the general welfare’ mean that govt. needs to provide everyone (who’s not willing to provide for themselves) a residence, food, transportation, unlimited college etc. too?

    Any knowledge of true conservatism shows that the less number of people dependent on government entitlements, the better the general welfare.

    If you disagree, consider that the Soviet Union, Communist China and Germany’s National Socialists all claimed they would provide health care for all. Cuba and Venezuela too and none had basic freedoms.

    harkin (23c945)

  72. Would you have voted for Ted Cruz? What state are you in?

    Yes. In fact, I was ready to vote for any Republican other than Trump.

    I live in a very blue part of Florida. How blue? My Congress creature is named Debbie….

    kishnevi (1a529d)

  73. Burnie avoiding pronouns and using the term spouse. Explains much.

    Thanks.

    NJRob (6281ce)

  74. Thanks you for answering kishnevi.

    NJRob (6281ce)

  75. “Let’s start with PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE…explain how healthcare is not germane on this clause.

    Not interested..”

    Wiggling through stacks of stats is your game. Discussing matters more difficult to dispute would be anathema to you. I understand.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  76. @ben Burn: Discussing matters more difficult to dispute would be anathema to you.

    Feeding trolls is anathema to me. You had your chance to prove you were working in good faith, and you chose to be a troll. Bye.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  77. Kasparov…

    “This steady drumbeat has served one useful purpose whether it leads to Trump’s early departure from the presidency or not. It has exposed a class of pundits, politicians and supporters for whom nothing is too foolish, too sleazy or too un-American to defend him from. Every time you imagine the lines of good conscience cannot be drawn any lower, they slide under the bar like a subpoena slipped under an office door.

    Their constant excuses for Trump’s behavior are nearly as outrageous as his statements and actions.”

    HOO BOY!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  78. I am not a Trull…!!!

    Buh bye..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  79. Frederick FEARS the linguistic lash as he languishes in his squishy logic denial.

    And as he departs the field at halftime he declares VICTORY! without noting defeat. Trumplandia is the happiest place on Earth, not Disneyland.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  80. @harkin:onsider that the Soviet Union, Communist China and Germany’s National Socialists all claimed they would provide health care for all.

    None of these systems of course ever came close to delivering what was promised. They did on a large scale what Obamacare does on a small scale, which was make promises that were not delivered.

    It’s one thing to say “should Obamacare have made these changes”. But in fact the promised changes never happened; or at least no evidence can be cited to show that they did.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  81. The fact that the Founding Fathers chose the word *promote* and not *provide* the general welfare should answer your query. However, if you’re not satisfied look it up, you’re a big boy. Start with the Federalist Papers.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  82. @Rev. Hoagie:The fact that the Founding Fathers chose the word *promote* and not *provide* the general welfare should answer your query.

    It’s actually the Commerce Clause nowadays. What you do with your health insurance affects commerce, therefore Congress can regulate it, according to current jurisprudence.

    But the fact is that Obamacare did nothing whatever for the general welfare–or at least, no evidence is ever presented when it is asked for, you just get trolling instead.

    So for me it is totally beside the point whether anyone desires the effects of Obamacare or whether those effects are the proper domain of Congress. The fact is Obamacare never delivered those effects. Or at least, no evidence is ever presented that they did.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  83. I’m well aware of the far reaching poison tentacles of the Commerce Clause, Frederick. I also believe its abuse is the illegitimate child of leftist lawyers. Be that as it may I was just trying to respond to the *promote the general welfare* quote, nothing more. I’m not a lawyer. But as a conservative I know leftist bullS***t when I see it. Or should I call it Fake Law?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  84. Freddy and the Reverend..sounds like a sitcom

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  85. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/us/politics/trump-laws-bills.html

    TRUMP says he’s signed more Bills than any POTUS.

    Does he think a EO is law?..guffaw.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  86. Here’s some stats..

    Esquire

    West Virginia: 299 percent.

    California: 138 percent.

    Colorado: 131 percent.

    Oregon: 179.8 percent

    Washington: 144.1 percent

    Michigan: 192.6 percent.

    If you’re wondering about what the chart says regarding the states represented by the allegedly wavering Republican “moderates” in the Senate, the uninsured rate in Rob Portman’s Ohio would increase by 184 percent and in Dean Heller’s Nevada by 76.5 percent. Oh, and in Kentucky, which is represented by Rand Paul, who thinks that even the current bill is too liberal, the uninsured rate is estimated to climb 231 percent. I’m sure this is all Obama’s fault somehow.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  87. Question: Which state delivered the largest popular vote total for Donald Trump?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  88. @Rev Hoagie:Be that as it may I was just trying to respond to the *promote the general welfare* quote, nothing more.

    I wouldn’t respond to trolls. But it’s your time.

    Frederick (0b61c9)

  89. Obama killed the Electoral vote AND Popular vote in 2008.

    Like Trump,he won under a false flag and cherry picked promise fulfillment.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  90. @ harkin, #23:

    I don’t remember anything from Old or New Testament that goes further than “an eye for an eye” as you just did.

    I was quoting from the Book of Vox Day. It’s not in the Bible.

    @ Rev. Hoagie, #27:

    If you’re going to start quoting the Bible to make political points…

    I wasn’t making a political point. I was making a moral one.

    Or we can admit we’re all sinners, even those who quote the Bible in politics, and continue without the implied virtue of Bible quoters.

    I am obviously a sinner, and I claim no special virtue. When you’re dangling over the abyss with one finger holding your whole weight from the final fall, and you state that someone else is in the same situation, it does not imply that you are standing safe and sound on the cliff’s edge.

    If we’re going to ask WWJD when we’re fighting for the very survival of the Republic against people who have neither belief in nor fear of God we gonna loooose. Bad! I learned in Vietnam you can’t treat a commie like a Christian.

    You stand to lose a lot more if you don’t. Or as Sir Thomas More might say at this juncture, “But for America…”

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  91. If defending each and every of Trump’s buffoonery equals defending the Republic, we needs to find us a new Republic.

    nk (dbc370)

  92. So Susan rice isn’t answering subpoenas whereas carter page, what does that tell you.

    narciso (82af23)

  93. She probably looked through her closet and she “hasn’t got a thing to wear” to the hearing. You know how women are.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. Question: Which state delivered the largest popular vote total for Donald Trump?

    Without looking, I’d say Texas, simply because it was the most populous state he carried.

    Chuck Bartowski (211c17)

  95. Heh it suggests to me, someone has something to hide, the definition of irony

    https://mobile.twitter.com/dwnews/status/887063364735836162

    narciso (82af23)

  96. just cause useless Mitch McConnell can’t repeal obamacare like he promised doesn’t take anything away from his triumphant achievement of landing a sweet sweet pension piggy job for his corrupt equally-useless pig wife

    you would do well to remember that in the days ahead

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. It seems like what happened is they switched it to a closed door hearing. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/17/susan-rice-to-testify-this-week-before-senate-intel-committee.html

    nk (dbc370)

  98. TOAST!

    Lee added on Twitter that he and Moran will not support proceeding to “this version” of the Senate GOP legislation, known as the Better Care Reconciliation Act.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  99. 95
    Texas it was. But my state (Florida) was not that far behind.
    Trump’s third biggest state in raw vote numbers was California. Percentage-wise, Trumps best state was West Virginia, although he hit 70% in Nebraska’s 3rd District.
    Source (scroll most of the way down)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

    kishnevi (b0adf2)

  100. 51. Frederick (64d4e1) — 7/17/2017 @ 12:50 pm

    And people who were alive in 2008 do actually remember that health care was not a dystopian wasteland then, but you might fool some kids.

    It isn’t a dystopian wasteland now. Some people are better off, some worse, and some are wasting time and money that would not otherwise have been wasted. More people have fewer choices. And the whole system is more irrational than ever.

    Sammy Finkelman (e51d81)

  101. kishnevi (bb03e6) — 7/17/2017 @ 8:18 am

    I completely agree.

    felipe (023cc9)

  102. The command to love your fellowman is absolute and always in force, and applies to every human being in their actions with every other human being. That others disobey the command does not justify your disobedience.
    kishnevi (bb03e6) — 7/17/2017 @ 10:39 am

    You are correct again, Kishnevi. However, the use of force, in the defense of the innocent, is not disobedience. It is always a positive contribution to the virtue of justice.

    felipe (023cc9)

  103. Frederick (64d4e1) — 7/17/2017 @ 12:38 pm

    Well said, Frederick.

    felipe (023cc9)

  104. Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/17/2017 @ 1:07 pm

    HEH! Some Goods comments today, even if they are O/T.

    felipe (023cc9)

  105. @Rev Hoagie:Be that as it may I was just trying to respond to the *promote the general welfare* quote, nothing more.

    I wouldn’t respond to trolls. But it’s your time.
    Frederick (0b61c9) — 7/17/2017 @ 4:43 pm

    This is my position as well. Hoagie, however provides an invaluable service, in pushing back, to an otherwise gullible bystander. I always appreciate efforts of that sort, as long as others can resist piling on.

    felipe (023cc9)


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