Patterico's Pontifications

6/14/2017

BREAKING NEWS: House Majority Whip Shot by Gunman Who Opened Fire at GOP Baseball Practice

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:14 am

Awful.

Here is a Fox News report:

House Majority Whip Steve Scalise was shot in the hip and at least one other aide was also hit in the chest by a gunman with a rifle who opened fire at a baseball practice in Virginia Wednesday morning, Fox News confirmed.

Police tweeted they “believed” the gunman was in custody. Sen. Mike Lee told Fox News, however, the gunman was dead. He said a staffer used a belt as a tourniquet to stop Scalise’s bleeding.

As with any breaking news story, be very, very careful about jumping to conclusions.

UPDATE: Steve Scalise on a stretcher:

UPDATE: Just before the shooting, a guy walked up to Jeff Duncan and Ron DeSantis and asked if it was Democrats or Republicans who were practicing.

UPDATE: Latest reports are that the shooter is in custody (presumably meaning not dead) and that the injuries to the victims are not life-threatening.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

386 Responses to “BREAKING NEWS: House Majority Whip Shot by Gunman Who Opened Fire at GOP Baseball Practice”

  1. Crazy.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. So far, TV news reports are consistent with your description of events.

    ropelight (f923af)

  3. this weekend i’m going to see a lovely play in central park

    hope it doesn’t rain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. UPDATE: Steve Scalise on a stretcher:

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/874962890457001984

    UPDATE: Just before the shooting, a guy walked up to Jeff Duncan and Ron DeSantis and asked if it was Democrats or Republicans who were practicing.

    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/874965106500698114

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. congressional baseball game sponsored by American Express

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. From MSNBC

    Sen Rand Paul says he think the gunman continue to reload, “I probably heard 50 or 60 shots” Sounded like an AR-15.

    Dana (023079)

  7. Motive seems clear, but Scalise being an elected official from Louisiana without knowing about the gunman’s interaction with DeSantis made the imagination run wild for a couple of seconds.

    urbanleftbehind (369ce3)

  8. Reports are saying Mo Brooks applied a tourniquet while under fire. Keeping your head when the S##T gets real is a rare quality. If he doesn’t get 70% of the vote, Alabamans are crazy.

    Brian Epps (323051)

  9. Bet it was an SKS, not an AR-15. The linked image is only for purposes of identifying the rifle. No accusation is intended against the person holding it.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. 8, are AL’s primaries closed or open, and do they do runoffs if no one clears 50%+1? Before this, Strange could have resorted to a Cochran maneuver.

    urbanleftbehind (369ce3)

  11. Don’t even look at Twitter. I will never understand trolls.

    I agree about Brooks.

    Simon Jester (d6782d)

  12. If he asked if it was Democrats or Republicans, then it was politically motivated.

    Sammy Finkelman (7509c5)

  13. If he asked if it was Democrats or Republicans, then it was politically motivated.

    Yes. We don’t yet know that the person who asked that question was the gunman, though.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  14. Steve Scalise was shot in the hip. He is in stable condition and expected to recover. Two police were also among the wounded. No deaths are reported.

    Steve Scalise is the House Majority Whip, or the third ranking Republican. He kept the whip coount on the House bill that replaced Obamacare and he and Mike Pence kept in close contact – their whip counts were identical.

    The Congressional baseball team consists of members of Congress and their staff. This is for a game tomorrow, a charity event to be played at Nationals Field, and the two teams to play are Republicans vs Democrats. It is not clear if the game will go on tomorroe. Probably it will.

    It is considered to be a safe neighborhood. Capitol Police were there (according to some people using Twitter) because the highest ranking members of Congress go about with a security detail

    The man who did it started by firing in the air, and then started firing for 360 degree around himself. At least 100 shots were fired, from more than one weapon, by both the perpetrator and police. He is in custody but they are not saying anything more about him yet.

    President Trump and Vice President Pence were alerted and security has been tightened at the white House (in case maybe this is part of a bigger plot of course.)

    Sammy Finkelman (7509c5)

  15. Or maybe he just wants the Democrats to win the game? Some people take their baseball very seriously.

    nk (dbc370)

  16. Patterico

    We don’t yet know that the person who asked that question was the gunman, though.

    A very good point. That slipped by me. It’s a natural question.

    Sammy Finkelman (7509c5)

  17. Good point, Patterico. There is also no mention of a time lag where person Sat waited for a given moment and then brandished, why wouldn’t that person arouse suspicion especially off they were carrying the weapons (in a duffel, which may not raise suspicion at a practice).

    urbanleftbehind (369ce3)

  18. Since Dems practice at another location, no valid conclusions can be drawn from the shooter’s question.

    He may have been confirming what he already knew, or simply confirming that Congressmen were present. It’s too soon to determine motivation.

    The shooter is himself wounded and in custody. We know he was reasonably well prepared, and sufficiently knowledgeable to employ ‘shoot and move’ tactics.

    ropelight (f923af)

  19. We’re these Republicans targeted by teh Democrats Apparatus of Hate?

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  20. Hmmmm, it’s just a thought, but I wonder if his attack was motivated by rhetoric that compares all Republicans to racist Nazis.

    Dejectedhead (d3cff5)

  21. Take me out
    At the ball game
    Pick me out
    Of the crowd
    Just make it count make it
    crackerjack
    I don’t care if
    I never get back

    For it’s shoot. shoot. shoot
    At the R team
    If they bleed out
    It’s a shame
    For it’s one, two,
    Three shots you’re dead
    At the old ball game!

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  22. Something seems off here. Why would he shoot in the air first and announce himself? And if he was behind 3rd base dugout with a rifle (of any kind) firing 50-60 shots, I’d have expected more significant injuries.

    rowbigred (cd2f82)

  23. Maybe he just got the gun and was a bad shot because he was inexperienced.

    Dejectedhead (d3cff5)

  24. A lot of the shots, likely most of them (my opinion), were from the police according to the reports.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Think they’ll tell us if the bullets they dig out of the victims are from the gunman’s rifle or the police’s guns? Have they, from the Orlando nightclub shooting?

    nk (dbc370)

  26. One nagging thought keeps troubling me, using a rifle and carrying plenty of ammo in a cold blooded ambush with no advance indication of imminent danger, the shooter should have been able to take down many more victims.

    The Capitol Police are being praised for their quick and effective response, good guys with hand guns were able to stop a bad guy with a rifle.

    The ambush shooter had every advantage, yet the damage he was able to inflict was relatively light compared to what might have occurred.

    ropelight (f923af)

  27. 26, agreed. Unless he really was that bad…

    rowbigred (cd2f82)

  28. Who is really surprised that, given the level of overheated Resistance level rhetoric, this happened? Is anyone?

    Who will be the first to blame guns?

    Who will be first to ridicule the idea of blaming guns?

    Who will be first to ridicule the idea that the escalating rhetoric on both sides of left and right divide (not just one side) might just have a role in this?

    We are becoming a society of hysterics, sensitive, so sensitive to slights, and more welcoming of extreme measures against all those slights.

    Can Trump keep us safe from ourselves?

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  29. Congressman Joe Barton was there with his kids. He was the team nanager. His kids looked to be around ages 15 and 10. Barton said it lasted 5-10 min, the shooter had a rifle and a pistol (possibly an automatic pistol), and there were dozens of shots.

    Also, reports that two victims are in critical condition at George Washington Hospital.

    DRJ (15874d)

  30. Also, one report said they were at batting practice and most of the people were in the dugout. The people in the dugout were able to hide/hunker down and that protected them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  31. Jeff Flake is the person who said they were at batting practice and about 12 hid in the dugout. He said Scales was shot in the infield and dragged himself into the outfield, where he laid about 10 minutes. Barton said some hid in or behind the dugout. ONE of his sons was in the batting cage and another was in an SUV.

    DRJ (15874d)

  32. Scalise, not Scales.

    DRJ (15874d)

  33. Security was there for Scalise. If he hadn’t been there, they would have been defenseless. Perhaps the 2 security men were able to provide fire that kept the shooter pinned down a little.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. 28 – “Who will be first to ridicule the idea that the escalating rhetoric on both sides of left and right divide (not just one side) might just have a role in this? We are becoming a society of hysterics, sensitive, so sensitive to slights, and more welcoming of extreme measures against all those slights.”

    Utter bullsh*t

    Rodeo clown wears Obama mask

    Liberals: Despicable, must be fired!!

    Women and minorities stab a Trump facsimile to death in Central Park Shakespeare

    Liberals: Magnificent! Resist!

    The only side I see unhinged, fighting against free speech and celebrating blood lust are the Lefties.

    harkin (536957)

  35. We are becoming a society of hysterics, sensitive, so sensitive to slights, and more welcoming of extreme measures against all those slights that includes a large number of people who can’t seem to discern right from wrong, won’t adhere to the principles that have long guided us and will not live by the Golden Rule.

    FTFY

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  36. This is speculation but it sounds like:

    Scalise was shot in the hip, is in surgery, and stable condition.

    The coach is Congressman Roger Williams from Fort Worth. His aide was shot in the chest. He is probably one of the ones in critical condition.

    One police officer was reportedly shot in the foot. I saw an interview with a GOP Congressman who said someone was shot and had a broken ankle. This is probably the same person.

    Bearing Arms blog said another policeman had injuries from shrapnel or ricochets, or something like that.

    The shooter was also shot. He may be the second person in critical condition.

    DRJ (15874d)

  37. Well frum is teaching full death eater status.

    narciso (8b2f11)

  38. not really sure why they were playing baseball in the middle of a workday

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. More speculation on my part:

    Williams was the coach so his aide was probably there helping. My guess he was pitching batting practice and Scalise may have been batting. That would explain why they were among the people shot. The security detail in the SUV probably heard the shots or may have even seen Scalise go down. If so, their first action was probably to call in a shots fired report and ask for assistance. They then might have tried to formulate a plan to respond, including trying to pin down the shooter. That may be why the people there reported that the shooter changed his location, or the shooter might have also been trying to relocate to get a better view of the people in the dugout.

    DRJ (15874d)

  40. happyfeet,

    They were practicing for tomorrow’s Republican vs Democrat charity baseball game. Apparently it’s a tradition. Williams’ twitter feed said they have been practicing every morning at 6:30 AM.

    DRJ (15874d)

  41. I wouldn’t call 7:30 AM the middle of a work day.

    I’d be surprised if there were really 50 shots fired. High stress situations and FWIU of combat situations, the amount of fire and other factors get exaggerated by even the most level-headed people.

    WTP (5b282a)

  42. The Hate-Trump media and their vicious pack of rabid Drmocrat running dogs constantly making unfounded and completely outrageous accusations against the Trump Adninistratiom provided the justification and motivation for this assassin’s bloodthirsty sneak ambush.

    Put the blame where it belongs – on the filthy traitors attempting to overturn the results of our most recent presidential election.

    ropelight (f923af)

  43. WaPo identifies shooter as James T Hodgkinson, 66 years old.

    ropelight (f923af)

  44. Greetings:

    Me, I’m thinking “Are we sure it was a “baseball practice” ? With today’s GOP, wouldn’t softball been more appropriate ???

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  45. Congressman Roger Williams played baseball at TCU in Fort Worth and professionally. After being injured, he was a businessman, coach of the TCU baseball team, Texas Secretary of State and then ran for Congress. The TCU baseball field is named for him and a donor, Williams-Reilly Field.

    Williams love for baseball followed him to DC where he “is the chair of the bipartisan Congressional Baseball Caucus and coach of the Republican Congressional Baseball Team.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  46. oh 6:30 makes more sense

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. The entire state of my birth is messed up (downstate Belleville?? wow).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  48. Check out his FB page. Bernie Supporter.

    WTP (5b282a)

  49. Media delighted to let us immediately know teh shooter is an older white man. I doubt they’d be so quick if it were a minority or a “Middle Eastern” looking fellow.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  50. This guy seems to perfect to be the shooter…although it may speak to his ineptitude. I remain skeptical about this whole thing.

    rowbigred (cd2f82)

  51. Won’t be the mailbox, or ballot box, the Sandersnista reaches for the ammo box.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  52. Heavy.Com says Jeff Flake said Scalise was at second base and the aide was shot in the leg.

    DRJ (15874d)

  53. 50, how the hell would an “other” get so close to the practice, without people already training their scrutiny? Probably had St. Louis Cardinals gear on to boot – how can you go wrong with that.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  54. The same link says that Scalise’s detail was the first to respond:

    Fillus said a police agent pulled out a gun and tried to shoot back. She was screaming, “ ‘Drop your weapon!’ And he shot her and she fell on the ground.

    “She fell on the ground in front of us, and we were all just trying to lay as flat we could. And I belly crawled, dragging through the mud. I got to the car and I ducked under the car and I laid as close as I could under the car to hide from the person. Then the police seemed to come.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. It’s Flag Day.
    The Donald’s Birthday.
    And another day.
    Of gunplay.
    In the U.S.A.

    http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. Now that we know the shooter was probably a progressive, MSNBC is suddenly talking about when mental health causes shootings.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. They were also talking about gun control with Gabby Gifford’s husband.

    DRJ (15874d)

  58. I hope everyone recovers from their wounds.

    mg (31009b)

  59. A Bernie Bro, smh.

    harkin (485617)

  60. Happy:

    Worse or better than Chao:
    http://www.yahoo.com/news/cindy-mccain-joins-trump-apos-180234415.html

    I wish all who were shot or injured a helathful recovery, shooter excepted. Will Scalise need a cane? That would be epic if that was added to the lore of Old Hickory and John Calhoun.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  61. 52, 60: Unfortunately, they’re the strong horse to the youth.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  62. His FB page is still up for some reason. He’s a rabid Trump hater and full on Bernie Bro.

    Had to have been planned–who travels from Illinois to DC and just happens to walk by a park at 6:30 a.m.?

    P.S. At times think of a paper one of my students wrote about the media climate during Lincoln’s time, her point being that the assassination didn’t happen spontaneously.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  63. @58. FYI, DRJ, both Gabby Giffords and her husband, former astronaut Mark Kelly, are gun owners.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. i saw that Mr. ulb I think it’s pretty stinky

    and sad

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  65. Yes, no doubt Trump’s opposition to ObamaCare prevented Hodgkinson from access to professional mental health treatment.

    ropelight (f923af)

  66. Brian Williams on MSNBC just credited Scalise’s Capitol Police security detail for its prompt and effective response. I think he’s right about that.

    MSNBC just interviewed Illinois Congressman Rodney Davis (who, strangely enough, was wearing a Texas A&M tshirt). He said he was batting, heard what he thought was construction but then realized was shooting, so he ran and jumped into the dugout.

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. DCSCA, why is that relevant?

    DRJ (15874d)

  68. There seems to be a suggestion that the police over reacted. Fog of war!

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  69. Davis also said this would have been a massacre if not for the actions of Scalise’s detail, who he said responded immediately and engaged the shooter.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. Reading Daily Kos, Huffington and other leftie sites….

    The Consensus?

    No mention he was a Bernie Bro, blame the NRA.

    harkin (485617)

  71. Wow – Trump announced shooter died.

    harkin (485617)

  72. @68- Why is your #58 post relevant?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. This is classic:

    “We must address the seeming anger of so many Americans with a caring spirit and action for their basic needs. We must heal this Nation.” Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee on Twitter.

    Translation: “We must address the seeming anger of so many Democrats and give them free health care and tuition.”

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  74. I think the media response is relevant, DCSCA. MSNBC always goes to gun control when there is any shooting. Why is it media’s job to lobby for gun control as a solution, instead of reporting what happened?

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. “The accused shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, 66, posted a link to a Change.org petition in late-March that included the notation that, “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.”

    Hodgkinson’s Facebook page includes numerous photos of Senator Bernie Sanders, whom Hodgkinson appears to have strongly supported during the 2016 Democratic presidential primary. In posts last August, Hodgkinson wrote, “I want Bernie to Win the White House” and “Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.”

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/james-t-hodgkinson/congressional-baseball-shooter-729035

    harkin (485617)

  76. But why does it matter that Giffords and her husband own guns? Do you think gun owners have more authority to say gun control is the answer, as if it’s some kind of admission against interest? Isn’t it really just hypocritical to own a gun but want to limit other people’s right to own a gun?

    DRJ (15874d)

  77. Dang it, that hip will take some time to heal.

    mg (31009b)

  78. i think all the posts are very nice and relevant i like them a lot

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. Anyone seen the severity of the others shot?

    mg (31009b)

  80. Old white guy, eh? Then the rifle probably was an AR-15 not an SKS. But remember how the media misidentified the LA airport shooter with a same name internet search? Let’s wait a little.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. Any word on if NY’s Shakespeare In The Park will change tonight’s Julius Caesar from a Trump facsimile to a middle-aged, white softball player?

    harkin (485617)

  82. The shooter’s hometown newspaper has a photo of Hodgkinson protesting. He is described as anti-GOP and he “belonged to a number of anti-Republican groups, including one called “Terminate the Republican Party.””

    DRJ (15874d)

  83. The shooter is from Illinois.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  84. Thank you, DRJ.

    Well, that gives us the explanation for the bad shooting, too. At age 66, how steady could his hands be, and how good his eyesight?

    nk (dbc370)

  85. @75. Here’s a solution for you, DRJ: don’t watch MSNBC. Unfortunately, and as usual, the events of this day will be very old news in a week. Fortunately only the shooter was killed. Visit this page and do a count just for the past 24 hours alone:

    http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

    Then take a deep breath, smile– and enjoy your Flag Day.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. No innocent lives lost in this incident. And I’ll bet very few in the gunviolencearchive.org list too. Very few innocent lives, that is.

    nk (dbc370)

  87. The shooter was not the 5th victim. Matt Mika, a lobbyist/director of government relations for Tyson Foods, was shot 4 times. He is probably in critical condition. Bless him.

    The aide to Congressman Williams is Zach Barth. He is reportedly tweeting from the hospital that he is ok.

    DRJ (15874d)

  88. Mr. Mika’s innocent life is very much at risk, and all of them will suffer in some way. But the ones who lived are alive because someone already there had a gun and could stop this shooter.

    DRJ (15874d)

  89. Yes, nk, Flake said they were all on the field so the shooter was either not effective at hitting all the potential targets or he only focused on one ir two targets. We’ll probably never know now that he’s dead, although it would be interesting to know if he practiced shooting often.

    DRJ (15874d)

  90. Flake said Zach was in center field so it sounds like the shooter was firing indiscriminately.

    DRJ (15874d)

  91. Was this some version of suicide by cop?

    DRJ (15874d)

  92. Thank God there are those among us who think clearly and quickly in times of stress.

    I’m waiting for a Democrat to emerge and call for an end to the craziness they’ve subjected this nation to ever since last November’s election.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  93. Put the blame on the people who cannot find it in themselves to accept the result of the last election. Until they knock this crap off, more of this is likely to happen.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  94. Ryan is doing a nice job uniting the House:

    “An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us.”

    It got a standing ovation. So did his gratitude to the protection by the Capitol Police, and specifically the two agents there — Agent Crystal Griner and Agent David Bailey.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. R.I.P. Anita Pallenberg

    (Look it up if you don’t know)

    Icy (2211c8)

  96. We may never know his motives.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  97. Re: 89 –

    But the ones who lived are alive because someone already there had a gun and could stop this shooter.

    This is absolutely correct. Those of us who are not guarded 24/7 have to be allowed to defend ourselves- the primary civil right.

    Steve Malynn (1d5593)

  98. Kevin, you are missing a sarc tag at #97.

    He shot at his political opponents after driving a day to locate them.

    There is plenty of information to “know his motives”, if not his specific thoughts.

    What he thought is in evidence, if not his personal rationalizations.

    Steve Malynn (1d5593)

  99. Women and minorities stab a Trump facsimile to death in Central Park Shakespeare

    I expect that show to close abruptly.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  100. “Here’s a solution for you, DRJ: don’t watch MSNBC.”

    Completely disagree – you MUST watch the loony left news sources if you want to understand the hate, vitriol and bloodlust for conservatives that motivate people like the shooter.

    I’ve been watching MSNBC this morning and I’ve yet to see them identify the shooter as a Bernie Bro or show the hate for Trump and Republicans he posted on line.

    Fox has a photo of him at a protest with a hate sign, MSNBC is still trying to figure out the motive.

    Imagine the difference if this murderous statist had been a Tea Partier.

    harkin (9803a7)

  101. “I expect that show to close abruptly.”

    You would think so but it’s getting standing ovations when Trump is stabbed and CNN has deemed it “magnificent”.

    harkin (9803a7)

  102. #97 had me LOL. This thread is so grim, I appreciate the comic relief.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  103. Today, the chickens came home to roost.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  104. Hodgkinson is a member of a number of anti-Republican groups on Facebook, including one called “Terminate the Republican Party.”

    ▪ “The Road to Hell is Paved with Republicans”

    ▪ “Donald Trump is not my President”

    ▪ “President Bernie Sanders”

    ▪ “Illinois Berners United to Resist Trump”

    ▪ “Boycott the Republican Party”

    ▪ “Expose Republican Fraud”

    ▪ “Terminate the Republican Party”

    MSNBC just now: “we don’t know if his politics had anything to do with the shooting”

    harkin (485617)

  105. A number of us have warned in these comments that Trump hating is dangerous. This is the wage of that hate.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  106. #99: At least one of us is.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  107. I’m glad Trump called for bipartanship in his remarks. That was Presidential.

    DRJ (15874d)

  108. You would think so but it’s getting standing ovations when Trump is stabbed and CNN has deemed it “magnificent”.

    Trump supporters (there are some in NYC) should attend the next performance and chant “SHAME.”

    But I think that even the supporters are going to see it through a new pair of glasses.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  109. The tensions are so high right now that I doubt this is the last of this.

    And if they toss Trump from office over this meta-crime BS, I suspect things will explode.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  110. The game tomorrow will go on but the GOP team may be limited due to several injuries. The reports now say Congressional aide Zach Barth (CF?) was shot in the leg, Steve Scalise (second base?) was shot in the hip, Matt Mika (shortstop) was shot 4 times, and Coach Roger Williams may have broken his ankle jumping into the dugout.

    DRJ (15874d)

  111. I’m gonna bet that this is blamed on anything other than politics. Any takers?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  112. “He shot at his political opponents after driving a day to locate them.”

    If he drove a Prius, that would be absolutely awesome! 😎

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  113. 112.”I’m gonna bet that this is blamed on anything other than politics. Any takers?”

    The Leftosphere is blaming Trump and the NRA.

    I’m shocked.

    harkin (536957)

  114. Appreciate the update on Mr. Mika, DRJ.

    mg (31009b)

  115. Classic @97, Kevin M.

    mg (31009b)

  116. One of Scalise’s security detail was a female officer who was shot as she was pointing her gun at Hodgkinson and repeatedly ordering him to drop his weapon. At the same time unarmed Congressmen and staffers were running for their lives and yelling at her to “just Shoot Him!”

    ropelight (f923af)

  117. Is there “enough Guilt to go around”? I mean, given the number of newspapers, celebrities, cable and other news outlets, Democrat politicians, etc., involved in spreading the hate, disinformation, phony allegations and serving the neverending Nothingburger, would it even amount to a light dusting of Guilt?

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  118. Icy, if anyone doubts the impact of drugs and a dissolute lifestyle on a person, they need look no further than Pallenberg. She went from a stunning knockout to a bloated mess in a very short period of time.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  119. Well, I apologize for using the wrong codes and not closing my tag.

    DRJ (15874d)

  120. 120.”The NY Times interviewed the shooter’s……

    At the same link, the Times also does a small profile, describing him as distraught over the election but somehow everything below was left out:

    “The Road to Hell is Paved with Republicans”

    “Donald Trump is not my President”

    “President Bernie Sanders”

    “Illinois Berners United to Resist Trump”

    “Boycott the Republican Party”

    “Expose Republican Fraud”

    “Terminate the Republican Party”
    .

    Imagine that.

    harkin (536957)

  121. Yes, he had a lot of anger and hate.

    DRJ (15874d)

  122. Colonel, becoming pregnant several times had an effect as well, but point taken — drugs are bad, m’kay!

    Icy (2211c8)

  123. Was this some version of suicide by cop?

    DRJ (15874d) — 6/14/2017 @ 9:23 am

    What’s wrong with you?

    This was an attempted assassination and mass murder by a mentally ill leftist (BIRM) who was motivated to kill thanks to the left pushing the belief that their political adversaries are illegitimate and evil.

    Period. End stop.

    Locke (1e7e34)

  124. Not relevant, harkin.

    What IS important is how Trump’s rhetoric and drumbeat of hatred drove this fine man to the breaking point.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  125. /sarc

    Kevin M (752a26)

  126. 127 – lol not necessary (to me anyways)

    harkin (536957)

  127. Locke, nothing is “wrong” with DRJ. And the two concepts are not incompatible.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  128. This climate of intolerance, outright hatred and violence that the Democrats and their media operatives have facilitated and nurtured is bound to claim more victims.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  129. Locke, nothing is “wrong” with DRJ. And the two concepts are not incompatible.

    SPQR (a3a747) — 6/14/2017 @ 11:16 am

    Go away.

    This leftist was trying to mow down Republicans because he disagreed with them and thought that disagreement meant they forfeited their right to live. He was ‘sacrificing’ himself for the leftist cause of slaughtering their enemy. Not committing suicide.

    Locke (1e7e34)

  130. I highly doubt that this was some version of suicide by cop.

    Icy (2211c8)

  131. 130 – If that is not a parody account, then Antifa is now an official terrorist organization.

    In Portland they promised violence against Republicans just for marching in a parade.

    btw – good thing Twitter polices hate speech. /sarc

    harkin (536957)

  132. Locke,

    Point taken but I wasn’t addressing his motiveson or ma king excuses. I agree it was political and very wrong.

    I was addressing his methods. He theoretically could have done a lot more damage. Maybe he was not completely sober, or maybe he was old and his vision/reflexes weren’the great, or maybe he wasn’t a good shot. Whatever the reason, I’m grateful he wasn’t more successful, but it did make me wonder about suicide. He has a history of a recent failed business and, at 66, that must be difficult to overcome.

    DRJ (15874d)

  133. If it is as it apoears, Locke, these kinds of acts are the worst kind to me: People who get mad and want to get even with people they don’t like. It’s pure hate.

    DRJ (15874d)

  134. 130 – apparently it IS a parody account.

    Funny thing though, the photo is of a real sign at a real ANTIFA march.

    harkin (536957)

  135. My point was that at some point during the shooting, maybe he felt dying was better than living. He had the chance to put his weapon down according to the reports. He chose to die.

    DRJ (15874d)

  136. If it is as it apoears, Locke, these kinds of acts are the worst kind to me: People who get mad and want to get even with people they don’t like. It’s pure hate.

    DRJ (15874d) — 6/14/2017 @ 11:31 am

    Agreed.

    I am beyond outraged by this man and his sympathizers. I know you were just speculating and I just wanted to be clear that my opinion was he knew his life was forfeit once he decided to do the act. I doubt he was prepared for shooting multiple moving targets while taking fire.

    I am grateful that he is the only death and pray everyone else makes a full recovery.

    Locke (1e7e34)

  137. He had the chance to put his weapon down according to the reports. He chose to die.”

    Maybe he wasn’t through killing unarmed, innocent people.

    I saw one recap where it said a female cop was ordering him to drop his weapon as he kept firing and the guys in the dugout were telling her to just shoot him already.

    harkin (485617)

  138. Correction to above: attempting to kill

    harkin (485617)

  139. He chose to die.
    DRJ (15874d)

    Maybe he chose to keep on killing or trying to kill and dying just got in the way? I saw it happen that way to many VC.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  140. Yes, Kevin, clearly our good friends in the Democrat Party are to be commended for their calm, mature, and graceful acceptance of the bitter disappointment of the illegitimate election of a thoroughly unqualified, totally unprincipled, money grubbing, upstart N.Y. slum lord.

    There can be no doubt Comrade Hodgkinson took it upon himself to travel to Washington DC (at his own expense) in order to pledge allegiance to The New World Order and to renounce gun violence in all its pernicious forms.

    Had it not been for trigger happy gangsters in the employ of villainous Rethugians who knew full well that Hodgkinson’s only motive for bringing his guns was to get them off the street by turning them in to proper authority.

    Shame on the GOP for stealing the election from Comrade Hillary and shame times 2 for murdering James Hodgkinson, a simple good man, in cold blood just to publicize a baseball game. How low can these callous sports nuts go to show their indifference for the rights and the dignity of law abiding citizens?

    ropelight (f923af)

  141. Need to throw some Clockwork Orange in the AARP and Progressive commercials.

    Pinandpuller (fe6b08)

  142. @21 Colonel Haiku

    Dark but accurate. Tagged at second.

    Pinandpuller (fe6b08)

  143. The reports have clearly said this baseball practice happens regularly and is known in the community. Anyone watching would know what it was. The thing that might have been different was the presence of Scalise from the GOP Leadership and his security. (Even if Scalise came regularly, which I doubt because he does have more than the usual responsibilities, I also doubt his security team was a visible presence at routine practices.)

    Thus, this shooter may not have counted on having people there who could shoot back. He may have planned to shoot everyone he could and die trying to shoot more. Or he may have planned to shoot, run, shoot, run, etc., like the DC snipers.

    I don’t know. I don’t really care since he is dead so he has been stopped, but I want to think about things like this because there are other people like Hodgkinson and understanding how he thinks has value.

    DRJ (15874d)

  144. What is suicide if not choosing to die?

    Someone who is insane or under the influence might not realize he was going to die when he refused to put down his weapon, but I am assuming that isn’t the case until we get more information.

    Plus, I don’t see him like a soldier who dies for a cause (a bad cause, but still a cause), but maybe that’s what some here think he was. I really don’t want to look at him that way.

    DRJ (15874d)

  145. Are they teaching cops-directly or indirectly-to demand the surrender of an active shooter?

    Do they teach playgoers and current minds full of mush that the assassination of Caesar triggered a civil war?

    Pinandpuller (fe6b08)

  146. Greetings:

    146 comments later, I’m still unsure as to the baseball versus softball controversy.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  147. Soldiers kill to protect their countries, Hoagie. Ideological killers are more like terrorists. Maybe he saw himself as a martyr for his cause but, if so, that death wish tells us something about him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  148. Plus, I don’t see him like a soldier who dies for a cause (a bad cause, but still a cause), but maybe that’s what some here think he was.

    I saw no uniform. He was no soldier. But I think HE may have thought of himself as one. But I’m with DRJ, to me he is in no way a soldier.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  149. Gah.

    I dislike the House Republicans as much as the next Californian, and … the answer is to vote them out of office, not to shoot them.

    This is disgusting.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  150. Expect the media to spend the next week wringing their hands and navel gazing in an attempt to disearn the motive.

    Phu Bai Phat (f35c80)

  151. DRJ, at 147: I don’t want to look at him that way either. But it’s interesting to me whether *he* looked at himself that way. On the other hand, that’s something we can simply never know.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  152. Trump-hating is the rage across the political spectrum. With Trump haters, it is not about issues or accomplishments, it has been ad hominem attacks all the way down. The man is not an opponent, he is the enemy. In these comments, #NeverTrumpers freely acknowledge it is about hating the man and not about his policies, programs, nominations or any substantive accomplishments, of which there have been many. This has been the core debate in these comments for months. You cannot honestly deny this. To Trump critics, it is about hating the man. DRJ, you hate DJT without compunction. You have admitted as much on several occasions. And you are not alone. So does Patterico.

    Haters gonna hate. #NeverTrumpers countenance the congressional “collusion” witch hunt not because it has any merit, but because it serves to undermine the object of their hate. And they fantasize about forcing Trump to claim Executive Privilege, setting aside any fidelity to the Constitution, simply because they hope it will harm their enemy. In a world in which individuals who claim to love the Constitution, pine for extra-constitutional vengeance, it should come as no surprise that Trump-hating fringe elements are now reaching for their guns.

    This entire thing is beyond disgusting. Far beyond.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  153. You can’t make this stuff up…….

    Hodgkinson also repeatedly called the police to report people on his lawn”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/congressional-shooter-loved-bernie-sanders-hated-racist-and-sexist-republicans

    harkin (485617)

  154. 135. DRJ (15874d) — 6/14/2017 @ 11:29 am

    He theoretically could have done a lot more damage. Maybe he was not completely sober, or maybe he was old and his vision/reflexes weren’the great, or maybe he wasn’t a good shot.

    Since he asked if this was Republicana or Democrars (and it waa him – Rep. Ron DeSantis identified a photo of him as him, and this was also just before the shooting) he probably didn’t recognize any of the players. Although he may have recognized Steve Scalise because he had retweeted a cartoon about him, although maybe it was only that he was older than some of the other players. Or maybe he observed Scalise had a security detail.

    He maybe wanted to kill members of Congress and didn’t know whom to shoot, although that may not be the explanation at all. The policewoman was calling on him to drop the gun, so there may have been pauses while he hesitated. He maybe thought he would get only a limited number of shots.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  155. Harkin, the fact that the dead suspect was in Alexandria nearly a month (according to the ex-Mayor interviewed in the “Y”east article), calls into question the spontenaeity of the event or of a sudden mental illness episode. One wonders if there was a sort of casting call of the sort that might appear in Soldier of Fortune.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  156. DRJ has admitted no such thing, ThOR, and you f*cking know it. Try to refrain from politicizing this horror-show for at least 24 hours, despite your inexplicable pressing need to do so. Not everything is about your Pumpkin Idol.

    Leviticus (e3cbd8)

  157. 158.”Harkin, the fact that the dead suspect was in Alexandria nearly a month (according to the ex-Mayor interviewed in the “Y”east article), calls into question the spontenaeity of the event or of a sudden mental illness episode. One wonders if there was a sort of casting call of the sort that might appear in Soldier of Fortune”

    And you’re singling out me to address this far-fetched hypothetical because……

    IMO he was probably a man consumed with ignorance and driven by propaganda and unreasoned hate (aka much of the left)…..but I’ll wait for all the evidence to be collected.

    harkin (9803a7)

  158. Leviticus, at 159: I find the reach for politics in this moment from both sides disgusting, disheartening, and horrifying.

    :{

    Days like this are really draining what’s left of my hope.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  159. A Democrat EPA would declare that baseball field a superfund site.

    Pinandpuller (8c03dc)

  160. He has a history of a recent failed business and, at 66, that must be difficult to overcome.

    No, the business wasn’t a failure, and it seems like his wife was still operating it (or was working for somebody else, if this was a home business.)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin_EAndrews/status/875015645284487169

    Tweet by Justin Andrews, evidently a KMOV TV (Channel 4 in St Louis) reporter:

    Justin Andrews
    @Justin_EAndrews

    I just stopped by James Hodgkinson’s listed business address. His wife apparently still leaves there. Neighbors say she’s at work. @KMOV

    8:42 AM – 14 Jun 2017 from Belleville, IL

    Heavy com is a very good source, wth good links, too.

    He stopped working in December, or was it that he retired in November. This was right after the election. This looks very much like he’s been mulling over doing something since the election.

    He had moved to Virginia, maybe with his wife at first, and had been living in Alexandria for about two months and was hanging around the lobby of the YMCA which was near the baseball field, and would come there every morning for no purpose known to others.

    He had told his wife he was planning to come home because he missed her and his dog, but that can be seen as only one option in his mind, which, if that option was going to work, he had to hide from his wife the fact that he had contemplated shooting people.

    Since the game was to be played tomorrow maybe that means the practice at the ballpark would end, and, if so, he knew it, so he had to make a decision because after that he would have not again so soon have an opportunity to get more than one member of Congress.

    People hate to lose opportunities, and sometimes get motivated to do things that are bad for them by the notion it’s now or never. High pressure sales tactics work on that principle. If you think somebody is following you, it is a good idea, if asked, to always say you destination is further than what it is.

    His religious beliefs are not talked about, but they probably mattered, in the sense maybe of what he didn’t believe. He had a small record of violence from ten years ago, and had a record of doing target practice in populated areas.

    Sammy Finkelman (c54485)

  161. I voted against Trump in both the primary and the general.

    He is the obsession of many, but not me. I have gone to great lengths to try to get the obsessed to view Trump and his presidency through the prism of reason, not obsession. It is a near-impossible task.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  162. Harkin, you referenced the The Daily Beast article in which there was that nugget of info, I was not singling you out for any other reason.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  163. He was a good boy, such a good boy.

    mg (31009b)

  164. “Not everything is about your Pumpkin Idol.”

    Indeed not, according to the shooter, it was also about every Republican who supported the results of a free and fair election.

    Since he was Bernie Bro and disliked Hillary, one can only wonder why he didn’t shoot up the DNC bowling league.

    harkin (9803a7)

  165. 165 – got it, thx

    harkin (9803a7)

  166. republicans oppose gun control. sow the wind reap the whirl wind. not so much fun when the other sides uses second amendment solutions. alan jones says another false flag operation. what goes around comes around.

    bang bang (da1c6a)

  167. It has been stated all Trump voters are Racist. – all bernie voters are killers.

    mg (31009b)

  168. Will 2020 be WW3?
    Lazer up!

    mg (31009b)

  169. 169… Teh return of perry… even more addled than usual.

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  170. “Hodgkinson also repeatedly called the police to report people on his lawn”

    There it is… ageism rears its greying head…

    Colonel Haiku (903a0b)

  171. maybe they will name a ship after scales. a garbage scow.

    bang bang (da1c6a)

  172. Oh it could fall under several types of false-flag, one could be a Machete scenario which does not impugn one of the “groups”, and also a Lewandowski-esque way of illustrating that Congress best fall in line behind the President’s agenda.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  173. If it had been Scalise alone targeted (plausible given the recent US-Mexico sugar pact with which domestic raw sugar producers were not pleased), there is no worse combo than being Italian and from Louisiana with regard to writing it off as the fault of the Congressman’s shady dealings.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  174. Mike Doyle (D-PA) and Joe Barton (R-TX), respective managers of the GOP & Dem congressional charity baseball teams, are giving a joint press conference right now that is completely unscripted and emotionally raw, and therefore genuinely heartwarming — in large measure because the day’s events have shocked any posturing out of them.

    One pants leg at a time. All human.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  175. @ DRJ (#121): You have so much bonus credit accrued for being an old-school HTML user that you needn’t apologize for your unclosed tags. (Although I share the aesthetic and reaction when I do that too, which of course I have.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  176. The new TV villains: Meta-Humans

    The new real life villains: Beta-Humans

    Pinandpuller (8c03dc)

  177. Today is a terrible day for this sort of thing.

    I have a number of friends who were effected (in that they have kids in a preschool in the area or they live in the area) by a mass shooting in San Francisco this morning, and another friend of mine witnessed an attempted mass shooting (at least six shots fired, only one seems to have hit anyone) outside of Barclay’s Center in Brooklyn this afternoon.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  178. Since the game was to be played tomorrow, maybe that meant that today was the last day of practice at the ballpark, or maybe the next to last day, and, if that is the case, he knew it because it would have bene public information. That meant today or tomorrow was his last chance because after that he would not so soon again have an opportunity to get more than one member of Congress.

    There have been a few assaults by older people but this was probably not because he was so old but because it was so important in his mind (also there is the factor that his children were grown.)

    Again I go back to a probable lack of a religious belief that killing people was wrong. Moral scruples wasn’t the reason he hadn’t killed anybody all those years. Politics was his religion and it doesn’t always carry with it: “Thou shalt not murder.”

    In 2006, he had wanted to get his daughter (how old was the daughter?) to come home where she was with a 20-year old female friend and that friend’s boyfriend. He came with a shotgun. When his daughter wouldn’t come home, he grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down to the floor. The daughter got away, and ran into a car, but he reached inside the car, shut off the ignition and cut the seat belt. He also punched the female friend in the face with a closed fist, and hit her boyfriend with the wooden stock of a shotgun and then chased him, and then fired a shot at him that missed.

    He was arrested, but the charges were dropped and he did not lose his gun license.

    Also in 2006, he got into an argument with a neighbor when he struck her dog with his car while it was sleeping in the roadway. He used to complain about neighbors driving their cars through his lawn.

    His police record also includes failing to obtain electrical permits, driving under the influence and traffic offenses.

    He was still in Belleville in March when he was firing shots (maybe up to 50 shots) into pine trees. What was he trying to do – shoot birds? Police were called and told him to stop. They checked and saw he had a valid illinois firearms license.

    Sammy Finkelman (b99a92)

  179. “He is doing what I would do. hang back look for weakness.” roman commander in star trek episode 9. (the best star trek episode ever!)

    bang bang (da1c6a)

  180. Just another soft target with a monomolecular crunchy LEO shell.

    Pinandpuller (8c03dc)

  181. Ah yes, the only real solution is to take away the rights of law-abiding citizens to lower crime.

    That worked so well during Prohibition.

    harkin (485617)

  182. Rep. Roger Williams (R-TX) — a Rick Perry protege who reminds me more than a little of Perry — is giving an impressive performance in a press conference, having entered on crutches because he injured a leg by diving into the first base dugout. He is a gifted communicator (for those who can get past the Texas drawl; admittedly, as with Dubya, some never will).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  183. “These men have prejudice deep within their heart

    For looking upon me they see savagry

    Pinandpuller (8c03dc)

  184. I agree with what Bernie Sanders had to say, that this is “sickening.”

    There are no excuses.

    I wish that each side would stop ruthlessly demonizing the other. It contributes to this heartless violence. Would bringing back more civility and a little humility be such a crime?

    Tillman (a95660)

  185. Meanwhile, 3,000 miles west:

    San Francisco UPS facility shooting: 4 dead including gunman, police say

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/…/shooting-reported-at-san-francisco-ups-facility-police-say.html

    And so it goes…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  186. Woops

    “These men have prejudice deep within their heart

    For looking upon me they see savagery

    A native local piteous buffoon

    With such dark slurs they slander my whole race.”

    Jar Jar Binks-William Shakespear’s Phantom Menace Part the First.

    Pinandpuller (8c03dc)

  187. I wish that each side would stop ruthlessly demonizing the other. It contributes to this heartless violence. Would bringing back more civility and a little humility be such a crime?

    It’s fascinating as well as disgusting to watch the left do damage control with the “both sides are at fault” meme being pushed forward in response to today’s shooting.

    Remind me again which side is:

    Shutting down free speech (libs at colleges across the nation)

    Threatening to riot if Republicans are allowed to (gasp) march in a parade (libs in Portland)

    Rioting at college campuses if someone they disagree with is invited to speak (libs at numerous colleges).

    Proclaiming at city council meetings to thunderous applause that they have no Republican friends (lib in Seattle).

    Giving a standing ovation when a man made up to represent Donald Trump is stabbed to death by women and minorities in a Central Park Julius Caesar production (NYC and called “magnificent” by CNN).

    harkin (485617)

  188. DSCSA – yep, that’s one of the two shootings I was talking about.

    Looks like it was a disgruntled employee taking it out on everyone else, but the shelter in place order stayed up for long after he was dead — police weren’t sure if there was a second shooter or not.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  189. There is plenty of blame to go around harkin. If you don’t see that, remove yourself from your little, insular bubble.

    Tillman (a95660)

  190. @192 aphrael- – visit this site:

    http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours

    …and look at the incidents noted just in the past 24 hours- before and after Alexandria. It just keeps rolling along…

    “Day ain’t over yet.” – Curly Washburn [Jack Palance] ‘City Slickers’ 1991

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  191. “There is plenty of blame to go around harkin. If you don’t see that, remove yourself from your little, insular bubble.

    It’s wasn’t conservatives who required puppies and coloring books to cope with an election.

    Nor was it conservatives that applauded portrayals of knife murder for a stand-in lookalike of a political opponent.

    Yet it was liberals who demanded that a rodeo clown be fired for (wait for it) wearing an Obama mask.

    And it wasn’t the Tea Party that had thousands of arrests for trespassing, assault, vandalism, rape, looting etc. and never managed to clean up their ungodly mess. No, that would be Occupy/BLM/Resist/ANTIFA.

    The left’s dishonesty and extreme double standards are a wonder to behold.

    harkin (485617)

  192. Locke, mmmmm, no. I will not go away.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  193. See harkin, that kind of extreme demonizing is exactly the kind of thing that I want to resist. I refuse to participate in that food-fight. Have it with someone else.

    Locke, SPQR has been around this site a long time (he’s even the original blogger if memory serves). So he’s right, don’t tell him to go away.

    Tillman (a95660)

  194. “Try to refrain from politicizing this horror-show for at least 24 hours, despite your inexplicable pressing need to do so.”

    – Lev

    But why? A politically-motivated assassination attempt just took place and you demand that I not talk about politics. Where does this come from? The logic escapes me. Is it out of respect for the now-deceased shooter? Do we need to give his family time to grieve?

    ThOR (c9324e)

  195. 140. harkin (485617) — 6/14/2017 @ 11:45 am

    I saw one recap where it said a female cop was ordering him to drop his weapon as he kept firing and the guys in the dugout were telling her to just shoot him already.

    But I read that that female cop was shot (and disabled)

    Maybe both happened. The hardest part to get right early is reconstucting the chronology, but you need the early reports to correct for later errors.

    The shooting in New York by Barclays Center, the new indoor stadium in Brooklyn near a transportation center, where many train and the Long Island rail Road stop, was part an argument between one man and two other men. Hw was shot in the leg. No oher casualties, but much chaos.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/wounded-gunfire-erupts-barclays-center-article-1.3247508

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  196. “See harkin, that kind of extreme demonizing is exactly the kind of thing that I want to resist. I refuse to participate in that food-fight. Have it with someone else.”

    I provide fact-based examples of unlawful lefty behavior fomented in hate and ignorance and you accuse me of extreme demonization?

    You accuse both sides of being at fault. That seems to be the meme today on the MSM.

    One thing I’ve learned from the MSM is that when they say “both sides are at fault”, their side is looking very bad.

    I counter (with examples) your spurious claim and you run back to your little insular bubble.

    Thanks at least for providing an example of dishonesty and cowardice.

    harkin (485617)

  197. Acts of hate-inspired violence should not be treated as ordinary tragedy. To do so minimizes the evil involved. It gives the perps and all those who contributed to the evil a pass they do not deserve. This is no time to pin on a yellow ribbon. It is time to speak out.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  198. Yes, Kevin, clearly our good friends in the Democrat Party are to be commended for their calm, mature, and graceful acceptance of the bitter disappointment of the illegitimate election of a thoroughly unqualified, totally unprincipled, money grubbing, upstart N.Y. slum lord.

    You see, I’m actually DOING that. I agree with that characterization of the man, but he WAS elected and the incredible, uh, trumping up of charges to the point that they are investigating a meta-crime with no foundational crime. They are now talking about impeaching the man because told a crazy prosecutor (who could not find Hillary of Obama’s many crimes with both hands if they had been shoved up his ass) to sod off.

    I despise Trump. I would change him in a heartbeat with a GOP Senator picker at random (hopefully not McCain). But the whole thing (whatever it is) that they are going on about is a pile of crap because they don’t want to address the issue of Why He Won.

    Somebody steals from me, I’m gonna say you stole. Not talk to him for spitting on the sidewalk. Understand?

    –The Untoucables

    Kevin M (752a26)

  199. harkin, you just keep on hatin’ your hate now. Just don’t go killing anyone, mkay? Take your meds, you’ll be OK. ‘Promise. Do you need a hug?

    Tillman (a95660)

  200. I dislike the House Republicans as much as the next Californian, and … the answer is to vote them out of office, not to shoot them.

    Always assuming I’M not “the next Californian.”

    But you pretty have voted them out of office. Certainly in the Bay Area and LA County.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  201. ThOR,

    I don’t hate Trump and I have said I don’t hate him when other Trump supporters have made the same claim you did. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else, or you have taken as true the things other people say instead of what I say.

    However, I have said that I don’t trust Trump and I don’t. Among other things, IMO he is a bully, a con man, and is not a person of good character.

    DRJ (15874d)

  202. As usual, an assassin’s efforts will backfire hugely. Think Obi Won.

    It is always the right wing “Birchers” and “Fundamentalist Militias” who are said to be the wild, irresponsible, and daaaaaangerous folks. This shooting puts it on the Left and Progressives as the true terrorists.

    We are staring down a Confucian interesting Summer.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  203. Trump won because he ran on a platform that best resonated with the aspersions of American voters. In other words, the best man won.

    ropelight (f923af)

  204. Bernie bro could have taken out many if it weren’t for the two officers.
    Living out of a bernie bro gym bag will make you dead.

    mg (31009b)

  205. Yes, it was a campaign of aspersions.

    nk (dbc370)

  206. Harkin, last year, the candidate of one major political party suggested that if a disaster occurred and the other party’s candidate were elected, “nothing you can do, folks – although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”

    I don’t see how a fair minded look at the danger of political violence in the country can *not* take that into account.

    It’s not the only thing going on. That candidate did not create the problem; he is a symptom of it.

    But both sides are rushing towards an a physical confrontation. This isn’t a disease that’s unique to one side — and even if it *started* in one side or the other, it’s metastasized.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  207. I totally get the argument about the asymmetry, I’m not a cultural relativist, I believe in right and wrong and I believe that the left, especially the Hard Angry Left, is so more often guilty of wrong as to be in a different order of magnitude. We can discuss that further some other day, perhaps; I’m not inclined to, but neither would I see anyone else squelched if you see the timing as essential to the making of your point. (I don’t think there’s the same moral urgency when it’s just a domestic crazy from either the far left or right, as compared, say, to an assault that involves someone shouting about the glory they’re bringing to Allah; but YMMV.) Say your say, if you can do so civilly.

    The striking disconnect that captures my attention today, though, is between those who were on or near the scene, who’ve been giving their first-person stories about the day — all of whom seem to be genuinely and profoundly affected at least for today, this day — and those who see this as today’s grist for their political advocacy. Those in the first category are more compellingly interesting to me today than those in the second.

    I hope they televise the baseball game. You can contribute to their charities — which have been broadened to include a fallen victims fund — here if so inclined.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  208. I bet the calls today to shut down the Trump-Caesar production are just overwhelming. Not even a liberal would countenance this kind of bad-taste violence against the duly-elected, lest it lead to the real thing.

    [scanning the webs now]

    Hmmm. Something must be wrong with my google.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  209. Ropelight, at 207: that typo is unintentionally hilarious.

    Trump won, in my view, because he picked up on the legitimate anger and alienation of a chunk of the electorate who were being ignored, and quite succesfully fed them lies that comforted them and made them think he was on their side and would fight for them.

    I’m irritated as all get out by this, but I have to admit that this is how a lot of politicians do it — it’s not all that much different from how Gavin Newsom operates, for example.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  210. He meant that the Second Amendment people, not having friendly courts, would need to work at the legislative level. Which is what they were doing before the Supreme Court discovered the Second Amendment in 2000, anyway.

    nk (dbc370)

  211. I’m sorry, DRJ

    ThOR (c9324e)

  212. > The striking disconnect that captures my attention today, though, is between those who were on or near the scene, who’ve been giving their first-person stories about the day — all of whom seem to be genuinely and profoundly affected at least for today, this day — and those who see this as today’s grist for their political advocacy. Those in the first category are more compellingly interesting to me today than those in the second.

    As they should be, Beldar.

    I was not prepared, driving back to work from lunch (I have a wierd schedule), to hear a Congressman *literally choking back tears* in a news interview.

    This is a major tragedy and upheaval in their lives, and it’s being treated as such by politicians on both sides of the aisle; surely we, the public, can follow their lead and put squabbling aside for the day.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  213. Harkin, you just keep on hatin’ your hate now. Just don’t go killing anyone, mkay? “

    Projection, right on schedule. I’ll bet those words never occurred to you when Trump Caesar was being murdered every night, (twice on Saturday).

    “Take your meds, you’ll be OK. ‘Promise. Do you need a hug?”

    Ask your side what the correct dosage of play-doh, coloring books, soothing music and petting animals is recommended, then apply to yourself.

    harkin (485617)

  214. 2008.

    nk (dbc370)

  215. NK – i have absolutely no idea how you can know what he “meant”. But, for a comment like that in a stage like that, what he meant is not the whole picture; what he was understood to mean is just as important.

    *I* understood it as a veiled threat on someone’s life, as did many of my friends. That interpretation is certainly mediated by our dislike for the man — but that does not change the fact that it was at best unwise to utter something in that setting which was trivially understood the way we understood it, and it does not change the fact that doing so increased the tension between the sides and made violence more likely.

    As I said, the underlying disease of the body politic is not his fault. But in that moment he exacerbated it, either through malice or cluelessness — and the disease is found today in both the left and the right.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  216. who came up with 2nd amendment solutions to hillary clinton? its not so much fun when 2nd amendment solutions are applied to YOU!

    bang bang (22c848)

  217. Well, what do you think he meant? That the Second Amendment people would make him President by force of arms, or allow Hillary to become President and engage in armed resurrection only when her Supreme Court appointees overruled Heller?

    nk (dbc370)

  218. I think he meant that if Clinton were elected, someone should save the Republic by killing her.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  219. To prevent the disaster that would occur if she were to take office.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  220. So let us not politicize a political event?

    Lol.

    … cuz it don’t suit Democrats because if Democrats could, they would.

    Bottom line is 95% of violence and intimidation comes from Democrats, errr Communists.

    Blah (200415)

  221. Well, then he was barking up the wrong tree. Because I’m Second Amendment people and I wouldn’t shoot poor Hillary. I’d talk to the NRA’s lobbyist in Springfield, Illinois to get the legislature to give what her Supreme Court took away.

    nk (dbc370)

  222. Bang Bang – I can’t tell if you’re posting an earnest viewpoint, posting a trollish caricature of a left wing viewpoint that someone (to my great irritation) actually expressed in a comment on my Facebook page today, or posing an extremely inattentive caricature of my position.

    Either way, your comment at 220 seems … designed to inflame emotions rather than to converse.

    My point is that the entire country seems to be sliding towards, if not civil war, a prolonged period of political violence combined with a disintegration into mutually hostile tribes. It’s a disease that’s destroying us, and, regardless of where the disease started, it’s a disease that has infected both the left and the right.

    I don’t know how to combat the disease successfully. But relentlessly calling out members of the other “tribe” *worsens* the disease, rather than helping heal it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  223. nk – i’m sorry, man, but you no more speak for all second amendment people than i speak for all liberals.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  224. if democrats take up 2nd amendment solutions and stop telling the blacks not to shoot back what use are democrats? paid for by the establishment who want strict gun control for black people. if you disagree why did saint reagan sign the first major gun control act in california?

    bang bang (22c848)

  225. “He meant that the Second Amendment people, not having friendly courts, would need to work at the legislative level. Which is what they were doing before the Supreme Court discovered the Second Amendment in 2000, anyway.”

    No no Trump meant go out and kill democrats, especially the brown ones.

    Lots of lefties today re-tweeting Rand Paul’s very poorly worded “shoot the govt.” tweet from awhile back yet omitting the words “when it becomes tyrannical” – they just can’t help themselves.

    harkin (485617)

  226. The media reports Mueller is investigating Trump for obstruction of justice. I don’t think Trump has done that.

    More important, I have problems with Mueller leading an investigation if Comey — his colleague and friend — is the primary witness regarding evidence of obstruction. This seems to be the case since the reports also say that the firing of Comey is the main evidence of obstruction. That is an appearance of impropriety and probably an actual conflict.

    The win for Trump would be if the investigation clears Trump. It would be high risk with high reward for Trump, because it would appear to be a politically-motivated investigation by Democrats (as opposed to a whitewash by Republicans) that concludes there is no evidence of obstruction. The alternative, of course, is that Mueller recommends prosecution. That would be a loss for Trump and the GOP.

    DRJ (15874d)

  227. You know, I was wondering about that myself driving back from the dentist on Monday. I had just shelled $595 for a cleaning and two small fillings. I have also been looking at a revolver which I absolutely have no need for, is totally impractical, and is positively beautiful. I want it just to look at. I wondered, “Am I really a serious gun enthusiast to spend $595 on my teeth and have qualms about spending the same amount on a gun?”

    nk (dbc370)

  228. I’m not sure how the behavior of a Republican Governor half a century ago is relevant to understanding the motivation behind the political positions of Democrats today.

    The overwhelming majority of Democrats I know think that guns exist for the express purpose of kililng people, and think that anyone who is carrying a gun must know themselves to be capable of choosing to kill people – and since we all live in locations where we encounter hundreds of complete strangers a day, the knowledge that those strangers might be people who believe themselves to be able to kill is *terrifying*.

    The underlying motivation is “set up rules that make me feel more safe about the strangers I am encountering”.

    Now, the libertarian argument that you don’t have the right to make me give up my rights for your safety is *morally valid*, in my view. And the constitutionalist argument that the constitution bars such rules is *clearly legally correct*, in my view. The gun control activists are wrong.

    But their *motives* are really much simpler and less despicable than you are implying in #228.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  229. Ya gotta love the left condemning people for politicizing a shooting.

    Gabby Giffords
    Aurora theatre
    Sandy Hook
    Every time a black man is shot by a police officer
    Etc.
    Etc.
    Etc.

    But when it comes to Islamic terror or a Bernie Bro deciding Republicans must die, both sides are at fault, we’ll never know the real reason, the NRA is the real problem and law-abiding citizens must lose more rights.

    harkin (485617)

  230. Part of my qualm is that I also want this one.

    nk (dbc370)

  231. “But both sides are rushing towards an a physical confrontation.”

    – aphrael

    We have lived through the Occupy violence, the Black Lives Matter violence, the Antifa violence, and now today’s shooting – all the flavors of Leftist hate-filled violence. And let’s not forget that from Baltimore to Berkeley, it has been mainstream Democratic party office holders who have coddle these haters. At any time during this period, can you point to violence initiated by the Right or even a violent response from the Right from the violence directed at them by the Left? Or to mainstream Republican politicians who have coddled violent Right wing groups? A two-way street this is not.

    At some point, it is possible that the right will become sufficiently provoked to respond. But to suggest that both sides are rushing towards a physical confrontation is simply nonsense. Complete, utter, absolute nonsense.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  232. It’s no big deal, ThOR, and an apology is not necessary. I suspect you confused me with Patterico who has said that, but I don’t mind being confused with Patterico. He is a great guy and while we may disagree about that, there are many things we agree on.

    DRJ (15874d)

  233. ThoR – I read a blog run by an (influential in the alt-right) guy who thinks Anders Breivik was a hero and that in the coming decades the west will follow his lead.

    The fact that you cannot see the beam in the right’s eye doesn’t mean it isn’t there. It just means you can’t see it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  234. aphrael – I’m sorry.

    nk – I try not to second-guess my desires anymore. It’s not like we’re living wild lives. You clearly want it. Get it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  235. DRJ – I have absolutely no idea why you are apologizing to me (although maybe you’re expressing sympathy for the friends of mine whose lives were disrupted), AND I cannot imagine anything you have said or done to me that I would think creates a need for you to apologize, so while I am grateful for an apology, #238 leaves me baffled. :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  236. NK – if you can afford it, and you want it, go buy it, and have yourself much joy of it :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  237. the incredible, uh, trumping up of charges to the point that they are investigating a meta-crime with no foundational crime.

    You must be privy to a remarkable amount of inside information and evidence to reach that conclusion.

    The former director of the CIA testified, under oath (emphasis added):

    BRENNAN: I encountered and am aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign that I was concerned about because of known Russian efforts to suborn such individuals and it raised questions in my mind, again, whether or not the Russians were able to gain the cooperation of those individuals.

    I don’t know whether or not such collusion — and that’s your term, such collusion existed. I don’t know. But I know that there was a sufficient basis of information and intelligence that required further investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not U.S. persons were actively conspiring, colluding with Russian officials.

    As it is not the CIA director’s responsibility, or the CIA’s responsibility, to investigate domestic espionage or other crimes, it is entirely unremarkable that he says “I don’t know” whether collusion took place. Having encountered the evidence he described, his responsibility was to pass it on to the FBI for investigation, which he did. And by all accounts, the FBI and now the special counsel is investigating it.

    At least five Trump campaign insiders had questionable contacts with the Russians: the spy Trump appointed as National Security Advisor (Flynn), his former campaign head (Manafort), his tenuous anchor to reality (Kushner) and two other advisors (Page and Stone). Of course, there is also videotape of Trump himself directing Russian intelligence agencies to illegally obtain damaging information on his opponent and release it to help him win the election.

    Trump’s partisans complain endlessly about leaks (notwithstanding Donald Trump’s past infatuation – when it was convenient for him – with Wikileaks) and the fact that there is allegedly “no evidence” of collusion. The investigative agencies do not release evidence for public (or congressional) evaluation as they acquire it. Unless you are one of the investigators, the fact that you have seen no evidence of collusion does not mean no such evidence exists. The general absence of information about the evidence is, itself, evidence (admittedly circumstantial) that the investigators are behaving professionally and keeping information confidential until the investigation is complete.

    The fact that a congressman or senator says they have seen no evidence of collusion ALSO does not mean no such evidence exists. In Comey’s last round of testimony before he was fired, there was an extended set of questions about information the FBI shares with congress about an ongoing investigation, and the answer is: only what is required for congress’s oversight function (e.g. whether sufficient resources are available, or information that might inform decisions about pending legislation). The reason for this policy is obvious: congress leaks like a sieve. Even if there were a smoking gun, congress would not normally be briefed on the details of an on-going investigation.

    As for the so-called “meta-crime”, I remind you that Watergate was not, originally, an investigation of Richard Nixon. It was his bungling, paranoid and heavy-handed attempt to shut down the investigation of an almost petty crime that eventually implicated him in serious wrong-doing. Sound familiar?

    I find Clinton-esque attempts to parse the meaning of the word “hope” highly unpersuasive. Everyone seems to agree that Bill Clinton’s tarmac meeting with AG Lynch while his wife was under investigation was a severe breach of ethics. But Clinton wasn’t Lynch’s boss, and couldn’t fire her for refusing to look the other way. Meanwhile, Trump *was* Comey’s boss, and *did* fire him for refusing to look the other way. The constitution gives the president power to pardon, but it also creates accountability (by making the act public). A constitutional theory that permits the president to secretly close criminal investigations of his close associates by blackmailing the heads of law-enforcement agencies does not sound very originalist to me.

    Dave (711345)

  238. bill ayres said on alan jones show that unlike liberals the left supports the second amendment because to many conservatives need shooting!

    bang bang (22c848)

  239. Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

    Special counsel is investigating Trump for possible obstruction of justice, officials say

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/special-counsel-is-investigating-trump-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice/2017/06/14/9ce02506-5131-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html?pushid=5941b725658e691d00000050&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.48f5ef5cf308

    Happy Birthday, Captain.

    “Oh my!” – George Takei, catch phrase

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  240. I try not to lump together those I guess might have a nefarious beam in their eye with those masked thugs with U-locks in their hands.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  241. aphrael,

    I’m sorry you and your friends have had such a bad day. Everyone has a bad day now and then but it seems like having a bad day, coupled with bad public events, is more disquieting. It can make you feel like bad things are much worse than they are.

    DRJ (15874d)

  242. DRJ,

    thank you for the explanation and for the sentiment of support expressed therein.

    For me, it was really the “this is hitting BOTH my people in NY AND my people in SF AT THE SAME TIME????” which got to me.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  243. nk @ 234. That’s a beauty but i’s not a pistol for a gun fight. Unless you’re Wyatt.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  244. Isn’t it, though, Hoagie? Besides inventiveness and business sense, Samuel Colt also had a wonderful sense of aesthetics.

    nk (dbc370)

  245. I meant that it’s a beauty.

    nk (dbc370)

  246. So WaPo confirms Trump is under investigation for obstruction. What a crock of excrement.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  247. 243.”Meanwhile, back at the ranch”:

    So the Special Council’s leaking now……remember, the only things Comey leaked were negative to Trump, when he had info that cleared Trump he sat on it.

    And Comey is Mueller’s buddy.

    harkin (9803a7)

  248. Influential in the alt-right probably means the person has approximately 200 followers.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  249. Today the fevered swamp wing of the left has a love hate relationship with the 2nd Amendment

    steveg (2975ef)

  250. “But both sides are rushing towards an a physical confrontation.”

    – aphrael

    What on Earth could possibly lead you to that conclusion, aphrael?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  251. http://patterico.com/2017/06/14/breaking-news-house-majority-whip-shot-by-gunman-who-opened-fire-at-gop-baseball-practice/#comment-2007215

    You are projecting the left’s history and behavior on everyone and everything but where it actually belongs. Intolerance, hatred and violence have found a home on the left and there’s a warm fire in the hearth and loving arms that await them.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  252. Locke, at 132: I’ve been here since 2003. From what I recall, SPQR was here before me. Telling him to ‘go away’ is not only not going to succeed, it ALSO makes you look like someone who isn’t paying attention to the social interactions of the people around you.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  253. @243, from the article

    Trump had received private assurances from then-FBI Director James B. Comey starting in January that he was not personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey’s firing.

    Let there be tapes. Please let there be tapes.

    Dave (711345)

  254. DRJ, the engraving on the cylinder of the first revolver represents the Texas Navy. Despite being a Connecticut Yankee, Sam Colt and Texas were BFFs. His first contract was to the the Texas Navy and his Colt Walker, which put his struggling company back on its feet, was named after Captain Samuel Hamilton Walker of the Texas Rangers. And listen to this: During the Civil War, Colt ran the Union blockade to supply Texas with revolvers on its promise that they would only be used to defend against Indians and not against the Union.

    nk (dbc370)

  255. Colonel Haiku – I talk to people on the left. I talk to people on the right. I *listen* to both of them and try to understand where they are coming from.

    Good people on both sides are absolutely convinced that the other side is the one responsible for this, and good people on both sides have a litany of perceived slights and hurts they can blame on the other side, and good people on both sides have a list of instances they can point to where the other side is escalating, and good people on both sides are now digging in their heels and insisting that they’re not going to compromise because the other side won’t.

    It’s very difficult to see this if you aren’t talking *and listening* to both sides.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  256. The NY thing was only a small shootout, and the reason it got attention is because of where it took place and the disruption that it caused. It wasn’t even covered on the CBS Evening News – in fact nothing was covered in the CBS Evening News besides the baseball field shooting, even though the broadcast time was doubled to an hour, except for brief mentions of the San Francisco UPS shooting (3 out 5 people shot died, and the shooter killed himself) and the London skyscraper fire (where the renovations last year may have made it easier to spread on the outside of the building)

    CBS had about 5 minutes of random video from the Congressional baseball field shooting at about 10 minutes into the second half hour. No narration whatsover.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  257. The shooter never got on to he baseball field. He was firing from outside, and a lot of his bullets were hitting the chain link fence.

    Many people ran into the first base dugout, then said to themselves “What have we done!” “We have made ourselves into sitting ducks if he comes here.” but he never did, kept back by police. the shooter was near third base, outside the field.

    Steve Scalise was the first person shot, shortly after he had arrved at second base after batting practice. He managed to crawl some 10 or 15 yards into the outdfield, bleeding. Some Congressman who was a doctor managed to put a tourniquet around him and then he was airlifted to ahospital in Washington I think. The others wounded went by ordinary ambulance. Scalise is listed in critical condition but critical condition doesn’t have to do with danger to life. Anotehr person was wounded worse, shot in the lung. Some people started to go ot to help, then shooting resumed.

    Sammy Finkelman (bec8ba)

  258. 259… I’d be interested to hear the perceived List of Grievances from the folks on the left, aphrael. Can you recall just a handful of them?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  259. So the Special Council’s leaking now

    Assumes facts not in evidence. The people he has asked to testify (or more likely one of their underlings) could well be the sources. There have been multiple leaks from Coats’ and Rogers’ offices in the past.

    the only things Comey leaked were negative to Trump

    According to sworn testimony, Comey leaked nothing while FBI director.

    After he was fired he released additional, unclassified information about one conversation Trump had already publicly disclosed details of. As a former employee, he was under no obligation to keep Trump’s attempts to suborn obstruction of justice secret.

    when he had info that cleared Trump he sat on it.

    Untrue. He advised Trump of the proper DoJ channels to request what he wanted.

    On the morning of April 11, the President called me and asked what I had done about his request that I “get out” that he is not personally under investigation. I replied that I had passed his request to the Acting Deputy Attorney General, but I had not heard back. He replied that “the cloud” was getting in the way of his ability to do his job. He said that perhaps he would have his people reach out to the Acting Deputy Attorney General. I said that was the way his request should be handled. I said the White House Counsel should contact the leadership of DOJ to make the request, which was the traditional channel.

    Dave (711345)

  260. Wow – Bernie sang a different tune when Gabby Giffords was shot:

    “Nobody can honestly express surprise that such a tragedy finally occurred. […] Congresswoman Giffords publicly expressed concerns when Sarah Palin, on her website, placed her district in the cross-hairs of a rifle – and identified her by name below the image – as an encouragement to Palin supporters to eliminate her from Congress. […] In light of all of this violence – both actual and threatened – is Arizona a state in which people who are not Republicans are able to participate freely and fully in the democratic process? Have right-wing reactionaries, through threats and acts of violence, intimidated people with different points of view from expressing their political positions?”

    Hypocrite x 1,000,000

    harkin (536957)

  261. “After he was fired he released additional, unclassified information about one conversation Trump had already publicly disclosed details of. As a former employee, he was under no obligation to keep Trump’s attempts to suborn obstruction of justice secret”.

    So pure.

    He was so afraid of Trump’s malfeasance that he stayed at the job instead of immediately alerting superiors he could not continue.

    And his leaks were secret. He chose to disclose one leak. You really doubt there were other leaks (either before or after his firing)? OK I have a bridge to sell you.

    harkin (536957)

  262. I love your comments, nk.

    DRJ (15874d)

  263. It’s only the Left that is trying to indoctrinate our young people and teach them to hate Republicans, conservatives…simple disagreement on policies gets one branded as homophobic or Islamophobic. Their tactics are much like the Taliban. It’s only the left that began rioting in the street after the election, only the left that physically attacked people, destroyed property, only the left that goes out of its way to spread disinformation and lies. This rift between the left and right can’t possibly be healed until the left takes responsibility for the actions of the worst among them and rectifies the situation.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  264. On leaks

    Think of them this way: your best friend is sleeping around behind his wife, and either one of the women he’s sleeping with tells his wife or perhaps his wife’s best friend finds out about it and tells her. Who does your friend blame for this, himself for screwing around on his wife or the people who told on him?

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  265. @250 Haiku history rhymes!

    I am not a crook. – RMN, 11/17/73
    I am not a crock. – DJT, 06/14/17

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  266. I realize aphrael that in your desire to treat people *equally* you say “Good people on both sides are absolutely convinced that the other side is the one responsible for this,…” but let’s be real. It isn’t the major politicians on the conservative side calling voters for the other team “a basket of deplorables”, now is it? Nor our congressmen giving the middle finger and chanting “f253k Trump” at rallies and shown on TV and YouTube. It’s not a bunch of conservative Samantha Bee’s and Stephen Colbert’s cutting outrageous, disrespectful and vicious *jokes* every single night on TV. It’s not conservative artists who insult peoples deep religious views with an abomination called “Piss Christ” or having a bloody assassination of president Trump every night (and twice on Saturday) supported with TAXPAYER dollars. And I didn’t see Dennis Miller traipsing around FOX with carrying the severed and bloody head of the president.

    Sorry aphrael, but I am *listening* and I’m also not stupid. They push and push and push and sooner or later somebody’s gonna really start shooting and it won’t be a 66 year old half-a$$ed leftist that can’t handle a weapon.

    You’re a good person aphrael, but the left can’t compromise because they think we’re sub human. And the right won’t compromise because we know the left is a bunch of anti American bigots. But rest assured the left will win a hot civil war. They control the cops, state police and national guard. And those cops are defending their paychecks and their family’s vacation home in Ocean City. Don’t fool yourself, all the armed “agents” work for the government and they will kill us all to keep their pensions.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  267. What did you do to your husband when you found out Sparkycuss?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  268. Here’s a pro-Trump comment that no one else has said and that will earn me no points with Trump supporters, but I’m going to say it anyway because I believe it.

    I think it is mean that this story (that Trump is under investigation for obstructikn) was leaked on his birthday. There was no reason for that except to hurt him. They may think of him as a political enemy but this shows they want to hurt him personally.

    DRJ (15874d)

  269. @ aphrael,

    Good people on both sides are absolutely convinced that the other side is the one responsible for this, and good people on both sides have a litany of perceived slights and hurts they can blame on the other side, and good people on both sides have a list of instances they can point to where the other side is escalating, and good people on both sides are now digging in their heels and insisting that they’re not going to compromise because the other side won’t.

    This I expect. Vut that there are now two significant sides on the GOP side of the aisle is much more disconcerting. And defeating, as well as depressing.

    Dana (023079)

  270. 264 – “Assumes facts not in evidence”

    You mean like the Trump campaign’s collusion with the Russians to steal the election story that the Dems and the MSM have been beating to death for months without a shred of evidence and which after falling apart is the reason they are now jumping on the obstruction clown car?

    Did you mean that assumption without evidence?

    harkin (485617)

  271. Harkin, there can be no doubt the government of Vlad Putin made a significant attempt to undermine our recent presidential election, in a manner calculated to advantage Donald Trump. No doubt. But Trump doesn’t seem very interested in getting to the bottom of it and neither does his AG or the nominal head of the House intelligence committee. Instead, Trump acts exactly like a guilty man would and instructs his appointees to stonewall legitimate investigations.

    Guilty is as guilty does.

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  272. “MSNBC Invites on “Analyst” Who Called for an ISIS Bombing of a Trump Building to Put Today’s Shootings in Context

    Our speech is violence, but their violence is speech.”

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/370224.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  273. He was so afraid of Trump’s malfeasance that he stayed at the job instead of immediately alerting superiors he could not continue.

    The implied threat was that Trump would fire him if he didn’t look the other way for Flynn.

    Do you not understand that the situation changed in a fundamentally important way once Trump did, in fact, fire him for refusing to look the other way?

    Comey explained why he did what he did very clearly:

    I immediately prepared an unclassified memo of the conversation about Flynn and discussed the matter with FBI senior leadership. I had understood the President to be requesting that we drop any investigation of Flynn in connection with false statements about his conversations with the Russian ambassador in December. I did not understand the President to be talking about the broader investigation into Russia or possible links to his campaign. I could be wrong, but I took him to be focusing on what had just happened with Flynn’s departure and the controversy around his account of his phone calls. Regardless, it was very concerning, given the FBI’s role as an independent investigative agency.

    The FBI leadership team agreed with me that it was important not to infect the investigative team with the President’s request, which we did not intend to abide. We also concluded that, given that it was a one-on-one conversation, there was nothing available to corroborate my account.

    Harkin goes on to say…

    And his leaks were secret. He chose to disclose one leak. You really doubt there were other leaks (either before or after his firing)? OK I have a bridge to sell you.

    You are simply projecting your biases here. The man was universally respected as a stickler for propriety. You’re accusing him of multiple felonies, so what leaks, specifically, do you allege came from Comey while he was FBI director? How did you exclude all other possible sources of those leaks? And when will you be backing up the allegation with your own testimony under oath before the relevant congressional committees?

    Dave (711345)

  274. sleazy ex-fbi kingpin robert mueller is already doing leaks and running a typical, corrupt, low-class fbi-style operation

    he’s an exceptionally trashy dude – he has all the butthurt of your typical limp-wristed snooty piece of ivy league trash

    plus he was steeped in the amoral fbi sewer for years

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  275. > It isn’t the major politicians on the conservative side calling voters for the other team “a basket of deplorables”, now is it?

    No! It’s major politicians on the conservative side saying that 47% of voters are self-described victims who are dependent on government and will vote for anyone who gives them a handout.

    > Nor our congressmen giving the middle finger and chanting “f253k Trump” at rallies and shown on TV and YouTube

    No! It’s your Congressman shouting at the President during the State of the Union, proclaiming him a liar.

    > It’s not a bunch of conservative Samantha Bee’s and Stephen Colbert’s cutting outrageous, disrespectful and vicious *jokes* every single night on TV.

    No, it’s a conservative Rush Limbaugh making outrageous, disrespectful, and cruel comments about liberals for *decades*.

    > It’s not conservative artists who insult peoples deep religious views with an abomination called “Piss Christ”

    On that one you’ve got a point, sure.

    > or having a bloody assassination of president Trump every night (and twice on Saturday) supported with TAXPAYER dollars.

    You’re aware that there were performances of Julius Caesar, supported by taxpayer dollars like pretty much all local theatre is, which recast President Obama in the role of Julius Caesar? These seem equivalently good and bad to me.

    > but the left can’t compromise because they think we’re sub human

    And I have this exact same argument with them. Neither side is subhuman.

    > the right won’t compromise because we know the left is a bunch of anti American bigots.

    ie, the right can’t compromise because you think the left is subhuman, and you choose to express it by asserting your “knowledge” of a rude characterization and misinterpretation of their character.

    > But rest assured the left will win a hot civil war.

    I really don’t give a damn who wins a hot civil war. I want to *prevent it*, not *win it*.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  276. You mean like the Trump campaign’s collusion with the Russians to steal the election story that the Dems and the MSM have been beating to death for months without a shred of evidence

    According to the former Director of the CIA, in sworn testimony, there is plenty of evidence (emphasis added):

    BRENNAN: I encountered and am aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign that I was concerned about because of known Russian efforts to suborn such individuals and it raised questions in my mind, again, whether or not the Russians were able to gain the cooperation of those individuals.

    I don’t know whether or not such collusion — and that’s your term, such collusion existed. I don’t know. But I know that there was a sufficient basis of information and intelligence that required further investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not U.S. persons were actively conspiring, colluding with Russian officials.

    Refer to my earlier post for further debunking of the “not a shred of evidence” canard.

    Dave (711345)

  277. Spartacus, I don’t even think that the Russian government necessarily interfered *in a manner calculated to advantage Donald Trump*.

    I think there’s enough evidence, at this point, to conclude that they attempted to interfere

    There isn’t enough evidence in the public sphere to determine whether or not they succeeded, or to conclude *why* they interfered.

    That said, the fact that the President and the AG don’t seem to be concerned about it is enough to make me skeptical of them. There’s ample evidence of attempt; what possible reason could an honest administration have for not wanting to investigate to see whether or not they succeeded, and to not want to try to figure out how to prevent future attempts from succeeding?

    This isn’t enough to support allegations of collusion. It could very well be that the administration just doesn’t believe the evidence because they assume that anyone proferring evidence is a liar; or it could be that they don’t want to look at the evidence because they are afraid they will find that it was calculated to help them and that this finding will hurt them even if there is no evidence of collusion.

    But I cannot come up with an explanation that gives me confidence in them, or that gives me confidence in the proposition that the Russians won’t *succeed* in the next election, without us having a clue.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  278. On the Caesar thing, you do realize the moral of Shakespeare’s play is that killing Caesar was the wrong thing to do and only made things worse. Kinda like your whole thesis really.

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  279. civil wars is no good

    brother killing brother

    neighbor killing neighbor

    pension funds running dry for our heroic first responders

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  280. At some point, it is possible that the right will become sufficiently provoked to respond

    If Trump is tossed out of office for “obstructing” an investigation into nothing, I expect a secession crisis.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  281. aphrael, there has been public testimony by Comey on record that the Russians also attempted to hack Republican organizations:

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/comey-republicans-hacked-russia/index.html

    But it appears to have been perfunctory and no potentially damaging information was released.

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  282. The former director of the CIA testified

    A political hack with political marching orders, who is deathly afraid that his malfeasance in office wrt snooping on Republicans will come to light. Like Clapper and the rest of them.

    They invented this “Russian” thing during the campaign to justify FISA warrants on Trump folks, and always expected they would win and all the dirt would stay buried.

    Now they just have to make their lie good.

    I get it that you consider removing Trump a moral imperative, by hook of by crook, but the rest of us are not quite so crazy.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  283. Another example, Colonel Haiku: this spring, two different Democratic political candidates dropped out after receiving death threats.

    http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-violence-democrats-death-threats-624361

    every politically aware person on the left has seen this story, and it feeds the left’s feeling of being under siege.

    meanwhile, conservatives see other stories of republicans being bullied.

    so both sides end up feeling like the other is out to get them, and feel pressured to double down on the behavior that is offending the other side.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  284. 282… yeah, Sparkycuss… that’s why they’re stabbing the Trump character on a nightly basis… because it’s the “wrong thing to do”.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  285. but the left can’t compromise because they think we’re sub human

    Actually, in response to an investigative report by Forbes magazine only a week ago, showing that he and his father had billed a children’s cancer benefit fund for exorbitant expenses on behalf of the Trump Organization, Eric Trump expressed this opinion about his father’s political opponents:

    I’ve never seen hatred like this. And to me, they’re not even people.

    The lack of self-awareness proudly displayed in those two sentences would be humorous if it weren’t so tragic.

    Dave (711345)

  286. If Trump is tossed out of office for “obstructing” an investigation into nothing, I expect a secession crisis.

    If Trump is tossed out of office it will be because republicans in congress did it, preemptively before voters get the chance. Who’s going to secede? The alt-right?

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  287. Spartacus – yeah, attempting to hack the Republicans is just as bad as attempting to hack the Democrats, but I’m way more concerned about the phishing attempts against election offices, and I am *really* concerned about the possibility that technically illiterate elections office officials may have compromised election machine security in a way that Russians could have taken advantage of.

    For me this really isn’t a partisan issue, it’s an election integrity issue. I don’t want an investigation to prove collusion and run Trump out of town; I want an investigation that lets us find out what our vulnerabilities are and helps us reinforce and protect them against threats, and it disturbs the hell out of me that the administration doesn’t seem to care.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  288. if trump is tossed out Mr. Pence will do prayers to nondenominational evangelical Jesus, and then he will give an address to the nation

    and Karen will call D&G and give them her dress and shoe sizes

    while the disfigured harvardtrash gnome-woman jacks up rates like a drunken venezuelan tranny hooker

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  289. so it is written

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  290. KevinM

    They invented this “Russian” thing during the campaign to justify FISA warrants on Trump folks, and always expected they would win and all the dirt would stay buried.

    Wrong again. They were alerted to this “Russian” thing by the intelligence services of multiple allies.

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  291. Colonel Haiku, at 288: “Julius Caesar” is a play which takes an act of murder and explores the tale of how that act of murder ended up harming the perpetrators. It’s impossible to tell that story without having the act of murder, and the playwright chose to leave the murder on screen.

    Honestly, for me, replacing the title character with a stand in for your most disliked political opponent makes the story *stronger*. See, even though you hate this guy, this is why you shouldn’t carry out any fantasies you have about killing him, because killing your political opponents redounds against you.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  292. (and now, as much fun as this is, I must leave. I have to go home and pack so that tomorrow I can travel across the country and join my extended family in our first family funeral in three decades — it would be two decades but my stepfather didn’t have a funeral for my mother. i am … not looking forward to this trip, but it has to be done.)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  293. On the Caesar thing, you do realize the moral of Shakespeare’s play is that killing Caesar was the wrong thing to do and only made things worse. Kinda like your whole thesis really.”

    Yes, the reason why the crowd gives a standing ovation for a Trump doppelgänger covered in blood after being stabbed by women and minorities is because of the profound message that political murder is wrong.

    Yep.

    You bet!

    If they’d really been on the ball they’d have made it an Obama look-alike and been the clubhouse leader for a Tony.

    harkin (485617)

  294. poor yorick

    he didn’t get in on this nifty 25% cashback groupon for tasty Al’s Italian Beef

    Deal valid for 25% cash back only after first purchase and 20% cash back for additional purchases, including after the deal is re-claimed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  295. Obama was lying, leftists are anti-American, and compromise with anti-American liars is suicide.

    ropelight (f923af)

  296. nk, everyone needs beauty in their lives. It’s true that I go for beauty in other forms, but if you find it beautiful, go for it.

    kishnevi (39af22)

  297. aphrael, condolences. Have a safe trip.

    kishnevi (39af22)

  298. oh Mr. aphrael i’m sorry this happened

    but i hope you can make a roadtrip out of it

    there’s so many philosophy under the sun

    even some what you never dreamed about

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  299. aphrael, you are right to be worried:

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/georgia-officials-refuse-to-fix-serious-security-flaws-in-voting-system-ahead-of-special-election/

    Our biggest election security weakness is that the process is fragmented and locally controlled, which is also our best defense. But yeah, having hacked 39 of 50 States in the 2016 election, the Russians are well on the way to overcoming our meager defenses.

    Spartacvs (2db708)

  300. my stepfather didn’t have a funeral for my mother

    not a fan of this guy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  301. Dave, that was an interesting comment (#241), which included elements of rationality and truth.

    They’re spoiled by your ridiculous libel of Gen. Flynn as a “spy” — unless you’re “privy to a remarkable amount of inside information and evidence to reach that conclusion — and your disingenuous pretence that Bill Clinton’s meeting must have been okay because he didn’t have the power to fire AG Lynch. (Nobody on our side thinks Bubba needed to threaten Lynch, Dave, if you aren’t paying attention — we think she was in charge of the whitewash to protect her boss, Barack H. Obama, who at a minimum was emailing Clinton at her email address (whose domain name was her private server), and who was also quite willing to put a thumb on the scales of justice just to protect his personal legacy (which is now thoroughly shredded).

    These are hallmarks of the intellectually dishonest when repeated. Would you care to amend and revise your remarks, or shall I draw the appropriate inference?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  302. Safe travels, aphrael.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  303. But yeah, having hacked 39 of 50 States”

    Two unnamed sources, both from IL and both said the attempts were unsuccessful.

    If you really want honest elections, require ID and hand count paper ballots.

    But then dead people could not vote Democratic nor could people who vote more than once in the same election. Democratic results would plummet.

    harkin (485617)

  304. You are a class act, aphrael. Condolences and best wishes.

    DRJ (15874d)

  305. Here’s another disingenuous nugget: “According to sworn testimony, Comey leaked nothing while FBI director.” Actually no one has yet asked Comey that question under oath. Assumes facts contrary to the current evidence. It’s a pity no one asked, but he has indeed thoroughly admitted to unauthorized leaking, which is in violation of a whole ton of duties he owed but knowingly violated.

    You’re probably smart enough to carry on a lively argument without being dishonest, Dave. Give it a try, if you can separate your fantasies from the facts.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  306. Kind of funny that you need ID to get into an Obama or Hillary fundraiser but not to vote in most democratic-controlled districts no?

    You can tell when they seek to prevent fraud.

    harkin (485617)

  307. To be clear, what he’s admitted to leaking was indeed a leak he finished after he was fired. It was obviously planned in advance beforehand, while he was still Director of the FBI. The intellectual dishonesty of which I’m accusing Davis is lying by quarter-truths.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  308. They invented this “Russian” thing during the campaign to justify FISA warrants on Trump folks, and always expected they would win and all the dirt would stay buried.

    Interesting theory. So you claim he:

    a) falsified evidence before a FISA court, and
    b) lied about referring that evidence to the FBI for investigation

    I suppose the *current* head of the CIA, appointed by Trump, is covering for him too, otherwise the deception would have been instantly exposed and a perjury investigation of Brennan underway by now.

    Dave (711345)

  309. Well ad e removes doubt, I would watch him for the next few days.

    Like I say. Homey is very much like mark felt in his arrogant propensity to abuse power, the latter didn’t do any more than leak the grandjury testimony.

    narciso (d1f714)

  310. @296. Safe travels; God be with you, aphrael.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  311. sleazy womanish comey left the pitiful corrupt FBI in disarray

    morale problems

    a lot of drinking on the job

    illicit sexual behaviors

    for the love of mormon jesus do NOT tell Mitt Romney this job’s open

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  312. My condolences, aphrael. My extended family is at those ages when we seem to see each other only at funerals. I’m looking forward to my niece’s wedding next month — the last one in the family, another niece, was nine years ago.

    nk (dbc370)

  313. Harkin, LBJ’s boys were hand-counting paper ballots, and were likewise looking at hand-written lists supposedly signed by voters after they had supposedly produced their paper voter registrations. That didn’t slow them down when it came time to producing the required number of votes from dead people signing in identical handwriting in alphabetical order.

    Systems are less important than bright sunlight. The media were besotted with Jack Kennedy, and they covered for voter fraud in Texas and Illinois by treating it as a nothing-burger; there was only a simulation of bright sunlight.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  314. How many times has clam of lynch PR camelbert or the gryfem or Gregg Henry the trump standin in scandal and this current iteration of assassination born, made the point. Resist will all means necessary

    narciso (d1f714)

  315. Cindolescences apfrael.

    narciso (d1f714)

  316. Condolescences,

    Yes gryfem is a typo bit Anna freudian sense.

    narciso (d1f714)

  317. I think it is mean that this story (that Trump is under investigation for obstructikn) was leaked on his birthday. There was no reason for that except to hurt him. They may think of him as a political enemy but this shows they want to hurt him personally.

    This is another difference between us. Trump is the definition of mean. It does not bother me in the slightest to watch someone be mean to him.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  318. When I say it’s another difference between us, I mean that in addition to the fact that I hate Trump and you don’t.

    I actually admire the fact that you don’t hate him and that you can feel bad for him when people are jerks to him. I’d like to be that way myself. I recognize it’s a more admirable way to be. But if I’m going to be honest, I have not achieved that. I’m not proud of it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  319. A story with out any foundation, Malcolm Harris is all class, brim in my taxonomy of tolls has king naszgul.

    narciso (d1f714)

  320. I’ll give the cretin this much: he at least pretended to be a normal non-scumbag type person today.

    It’s an act, but the country could do with more such acting.

    (Don’t hold your breath.)

    Patterico (115b1f)

  321. A story with out any foundation, Malcolm Harris is all class, brim in my taxonomy of tolls has king naszgul.

    Supposedly not actually a Voxxer, I saw someone claim. But a ghoul for sure.

    Want to explain why? I’m too tired to.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  322. Does it really matter, max Fisher ended up at the times, Ezra Klein is one at box having been with the post

    narciso (d1f714)

  323. @305 Beldar

    They’re spoiled by your ridiculous libel of Gen. Flynn as a “spy” — unless you’re “privy to a remarkable amount of inside information and evidence to reach that conclusion

    A spy is a covert foreign agent. It is public knowledge that Flynn failed to disclose that he was an agent of Turkey. He also falsified certain information about payments received from Russia that would have raised red flags in his security review. He was an undeclared foreign agent during the brief time he served as National Security Director.

    — and your disingenuous pretence that Bill Clinton’s meeting must have been okay because he didn’t have the power to fire AG Lynch. (Nobody on our side thinks Bubba needed to threaten Lynch, Dave, if you aren’t paying attention — we think she was in charge of the whitewash to protect her boss, Barack H. Obama, who at a minimum was emailing Clinton at her email address (whose domain name was her private server), and who was also quite willing to put a thumb on the scales of justice just to protect his personal legacy (which is now thoroughly shredded).

    I have no idea where you found any “pretense” that Bill Clinton’s meeting with Lynch was “okay”. I said exactly the opposite:

    Everyone seems to agree that Bill Clinton’s tarmac meeting with AG Lynch while his wife was under investigation was a severe breach of ethics. But Clinton wasn’t Lynch’s boss, and couldn’t fire her for refusing to look the other way.

    “Everyone” would include me, hence I agree that Bill Clinton’s tarmac meeting with AG Lynch was a severe breach of ethics. I was simply making the point that Trump’s efforts to influence Comey were even worse, since they involved an elements of coercion and abuse of power not present in the Clinton/Lynch scenario.

    Dave (711345)

  324. The puffington became a much more selective publication

    narciso (d1f714)

  325. President Trump’s cheeky sometimes but also he’s the best president in so long

    and the only one what’s *ever* in the entire US America history stood up to the propaganda slut media in a meaningful and sustained way

    and that’s so sine qua non anymore

    i’m so glad i got to call him my president

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  326. Here’s another disingenuous nugget: “According to sworn testimony, Comey leaked nothing while FBI director.” Actually no one has yet asked Comey that question under oath. Assumes facts contrary to the current evidence.

    You are incorrect.

    GRASSLEY: Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

    COMEY: Never.

    GRASSLEY: Question two, relatively related, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

    COMEY: No.

    GRASSLEY: Has any classified information relating to President Trump or his association — associates been declassified and shared with the media?

    COMEY: Not to my knowledge.

    ————-

    It’s a pity no one asked, but he has indeed thoroughly admitted to unauthorized leaking, which is in violation of a whole ton of duties he owed but knowingly violated.

    You’re probably smart enough to carry on a lively argument without being dishonest, Dave. Give it a try, if you can separate your fantasies from the facts.

    Can we drop the patronizing tone now?

    Dave (711345)

  327. comey lies like a womanish woman

    with breasts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  328. I’ve had my reservations, he scorches a littlevtoo much terrain, his personnel policies leavecsomething to be desired. I undefstiod the kumbaya in riyadh but I don’t agree with. He seems to be moving on fulfilling his pledge on Russia, which is ironic considering the grishenko narrative.

    narciso (d1f714)

  329. riyadh’s only merit is the sleazy persians hate them and they hate the pervy persians

    but this new perverted saudi crown prince is dangerously stupid even for a saudi royal pervert

    would you be shocked to learn that drooling royal idiot bin Nayef trained at failmerica’s corrupt fbi for a number of years?

    true story

    hide your kids hide your wife

    then hide your husbands

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  330. So who actualLy is a Russian agent of influence the ones who turned down the evidence re the tsarnaevs (that would be Mueller and Brendan) the one who defamed Poland as a provoker of war, (comey) of course they expedited the return of the Chapman ring, in part because of the ties to red queen (red sparrow susses out who gave them up. But adds the fillip of Chapman acting as a double agent)

    narciso (d1f714)

  331. If this is going to become a Trump thread, then out of fairness, we should be referring to this as a “matter,” not an investigation.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  332. American Express was also a proud sponsor of the Boston Marathon if I remember correctly

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  333. I’m thinking our hosts need to renew the earlier practice of starting at least one new post every day just entitled “Trump,” open thread.

    Anyway, coming back to the subject of what else might be in Comey’s Feb 14 memo that he held back from leaking and that we haven’t seen or heard yet — but that Mueller has, and might have felt he couldn’t ignore — here’s what I wrote in a pair of consecutive comments back on May 16:

    @ Col H, who wrote (#18):
    And what do you have when Comey didn’t advise the DOJ that it had happened?

    This is a good question that I’ve heard many people ask. I’ll offer you my speculation:

    Everyone at this level in Washington surely knows and is constantly reminded of their job vulnerability. Comey has been in law enforcement for decades now, always subject to being fired, and he has a track record of being very self-righteous and prickly, unctuously so, at any challenge to him — hence his compulsive need to keep talking to the American public about Hillary’s emails.
    I would be astonished if he isn’t about 20 times more experienced in writing “cover-my-ass” memos than anyone in the Trump White House, which has basically blundered now into almost every mistake an employer can make in handling a high-level personnel matter.

    So my guess is that tucked away in Comey’s cover-my-ass memo is his best explanation, pre-spun in anticipation of you and others asking that exact question someday.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 5/16/2017 @ 6:29 pm

    If he were really cunning, for example, the memo might conclude:

    I am highly troubled by this deeply inappropriate, if unsuccessful, by the POTUS acting in his official capacity to attempt to compromise an ongoing federal criminal investigation. However, obstruction of justice is a crime of specific criminal intent that typically can only be deduced after the fact from a pattern of circumstantial evidence over time. Perhaps the POTUS lacks sufficient intent; in any event, there is not, as of now, sufficient circumstantial evidence to oblige me to make an official report beyond this internal memorandum to my files. I will certainly be alert to future developments, though, which might further evidence the sort of “guilty mind” that would be necessary to prove obstruction of justice.

    This would, of course, fairly drip with irony, given Comey’s public statements about Hillary and proof of her criminal intent, of course. But it would be a pretty good come-back to the question you ask, Col. H.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 5/16/2017 @ 6:33 pm

    Beldar (fa637a)

  334. You don’t know the half of it pikavhu, then prince salmon charity, the Saudi high commission on Bosnia, funded the camps that trained the hijackers, another emloyee of that outfit, effendi lahmar wax sent to gitmo, the levick group took up his cause and in boumeddienne the usual suspects whiffed the ball, he was released a year later to France, guess what he has been upto?,

    narciso (d1f714)

  335. Scott Adams on the Alexandria shooter who was radicalized by the mainstream media… https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/875034555807223809

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  336. perverted royal saudi stuff?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  337. Well in comes living room. The trophies and or temps of quattrone. Hatfill, Stewart. Gonzalez, miller it al speak for themselves

    narciso (d1f714)

  338. 337… Beldar… you are often right, and always informative.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  339. Dictionary says “spy” as a noun means: “a person who secretly collects and reports information on the activities, movements, and plans of an enemy or competitor.”

    It’s intellectually dishonest to make up your own definitions, Dave. The rest of us also speak English and have dictionaries.

    No, you didn’t say the meeting was okay, you made up a nonsense reason — that Bubba was there to threaten and compel Lynch, but couldn’t because he couldn’t fire her.

    You’re making it worse, dude. It’s a shame, you’re obviously a quick and gifted writer. You might have been a worthy debate partner. Did your debate team in high school get disqualified a lot?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  340. Dave, I’m an agent. I’m an agent for every one of my clients, in fact. Some of them, from time to time, have been foreigners, too. I keep their client confidences from public view; some would say that at least some of my work from them is deliberately covert (“not openly acknowledged or displayed”).

    Am I a spy, Dave? Do you think you could accuse me of that in print and win a libel case with your definition? I’m quite sure you couldn’t, but that instead, what you wrote about Flynn is, as of now, a pretty good example of libel per se.

    You’ll get away with it. You’re one of millions who’re knowingly publishing and re-publishing falsehoods that you can’t prove but that are, and are intended to be, injurious to their reputations. Hide in the crowd, Dave. Your best defense is actually that no one paid much attention to you, so you couldn’t have done much harm. But that’s damages, not liability.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  341. (Flynn is a public figure, of course, but … you’re pretty far into actual malice territory if someone had the tenacity to chase you.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  342. 295… aphrael… imagine That play with a Barack Obama character – instead of Trump – being stabbed in the park on a nightly basis! Oh, wait… I can’t. Can you?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  343. The closest thing was the ending in kingsman, where the entire cabinet is revealed to be a tool of Jackson’s sky dragon worshipping tycoon among other thongs it showed how obsessed the Brits are with the westboro baptists

    narciso (d1f714)

  344. which is in violation of a whole ton of duties he owed but knowingly violated.

    Perhaps he could be charged with “honest services fraud.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  345. And re the Grassley Q&A you quoted:

    GRASSLEY: Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

    COMEY: Never.

    The only sense in which this answer could be true would be if Comey was engaged in Clintonesque parsing, interpreting “source” as meaning “direct source.” He confessed to leaking through a cutout. His answer would be the same for any other occasions on which he leaked through a cutout. But as Comey insists, you don’t get to pick and choose.

    I’d bet my hind teeth that if Grassley had qualified his question with “directly or indirectly,” he’d have gotten a different answer.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  346. I’ll drop the patronizing tone the day you engage in intellectual honesty. Until then, yes, I will mock you, until I get bored.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  347. So keeping score there’s at least one pixie at the puzzle palace leaking secrets and two other doc brown supporters on rampages

    narciso (d1f714)

  348. aphrael,

    Yeah Caesar is the hero of the play and the murder a mistake. But Beavis and Butthead in the audience don’t get that, nor are they intended to. It’s the on-stage killing that everybody is there for.

    I wonder if they even bother with Acts IV & V.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  349. As with most everything g they refuse to cover us what’s worth covering:
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/latino/ken-oliver/2017/06/14/draining-swamp-veterans-admin-ignored-abc-cbs-univision-telemundo

    narciso (d1f714)

  350. Beldar,

    I just engage him on his level. Baseless conspiratorial charge vs baseless conspiratorial charge.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  351. Gregg Henry is a rather unlkeable fellow going back to payback the Mel Gibson film, long before he was playing tutus father Stacy keah was the tidal character in macbird, the new lefts take on the Scottish play.

    narciso (d1f714)

  352. What was that line fro. Life of brian

    narciso (d1f714)

  353. Beldar,

    Does the story about Mueller investigating Trump for obstruction cause you to revisit your view of whether he should now recuse himself?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  354. Mueller Seeks to Talk to Intelligence Officials, Hinting at Inquiry of Trump – NYT June 14, 2017

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/mueller-trump-special-counsel-investigation.html?_r=0

    “A former senior official said Mr. Mueller’s investigation was looking at money laundering by Trump associates. The suspicion is that any cooperation with Russian officials would most likely have been in exchange for some kind of financial payoff, and that there would have been an effort to hide the payments, probably by routing them through offshore banking centers.”

    “Follow the money.” – ‘Deep Throat’ [Hal Holbrook] ‘All The President’s Men’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  355. The folks in the lung don’t get it was done five years ago with Obama, well like guy Pearce said in iron man 3 ‘subtlety went out the window’,

    narciso (d1f714)

  356. OTOH, I see nothing wrong with the Special Counsel investigating obstruction. Due diligence requires it, given that we’ve agreed to go down this road.

    It’s just, well, stupid to begin with. My only question is “Who ISN’T lying?” Remember, Clinton national security appointees have stooped so far as to steal documents from secret archives, stuffed down their pants.

    I don’t trust any word that comes out of the mouth of anyone the Clintons have touched. Especially when it is convenient for the Clintons.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  357. Take your Trump comments to the thread titled Trump.

    By popular request.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  358. Well wheres the beef anyone can say anything. Or compose whatever document,

    ttps://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/06/14/wapo-report-robert-mueller-investigating-obstruction-of-justice-claims/

    But comey has yet to show us the raven like memo.

    narciso (d1f714)

  359. Again . . .

    Patterico (115b1f)

  360. 357 — IMO, based on my understanding of the recusal regs, Mueller should recuse himself now, and failure to do so is grounds for his removal. He has a close relationship with a material witness, and the charging decision could come down to a credibility determination. Mueller cannot be viewed as impartial with regard to that determination.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  361. Ethics rules are for chumps like Sessions.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  362. I agree with swc 364.

    DRJ (15874d)

  363. And I think Beldar has previously said the same thing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  364. In the grand scheme of life, all that really matters is that Mueller get Trump.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  365. I’m certainly grateful for the responsivity of this establishment, yet again. 😀

    C-Span will be carrying the baseball game. I intend to watch.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  366. And I think Beldar has previously said the same thing.

    Oh good. I have not been able to read all the comments lately.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  367. But, DRJ, there is a Trump thread now!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  368. Who’s going to question the ethics of the man who brings down Trump? He will be paraded through Washington on in a gilded chariot pulled by four horses. He will wear a laurel crown and carry a laurel branch in his right hand. In his left hand, he will carry an ivory sceptre with an eagle at the top, symbolic of the triumph

    ThOR (c9324e)

  369. You native they dint take a breath, consider how we got here , like with that pizza shop briyhaha

    narciso (d1f714)

  370. 270.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 6/14/2017 @ 5:25 pm
    It isn’t the major politicians on the conservative side calling voters for the other team “a basket of deplorables”, now is it?

    People on the “conservative” side (and then not usually politicians) attack the politicians and the broadcasters and writers, not the voters, except for (mostly imaginary) illegal voters.

    Some people are accused of being “snowflakes” or of being indoctrinated.

    Nor our congressmen giving the middle finger and chanting “f253k Trump” at rallies and shown on TV and YouTube.

    That’s also attacking politicians, but the non-conservatives do it with extremely strong language and vehemence, usually without giving any specific reasons (which would make it rational, and limited.)

    When they do give reasons, they are often misrepresentations of facts. Stephen Colbert does a lot of that, and Jon Stewart used to. Just tonight Colbert was making fun of Attorney general Jeff Sessions (whom he also compared to Elmer Fudd) having said he did not know anything more about Russian involvement in the 2016 election than what he read in the newspapers.

    He’s recused himself! He’s not lying. He’s not derelict in his duties. At least not for that reason.

    If you say, what about before that? Before he was nominated to be Attorney General, he really wouldn’t have been the recipient of anything that didn’t appear in the newspapers.

    It’s not a bunch of conservative Samantha Bee’s and Stephen Colbert’s cutting outrageous, disrespectful and vicious *jokes* every single night on TV.

    and a lot of their jokes only make sense if you believe lies. I never saw Bee. Colbert actually often has to explain what the “facts” are before the jokes.

    That said, what seems to have mostly motivated the shooter was claims about legislative issues.

    Sammy Finkelman (fe8737)

  371. @288 Colonel Haiku

    They could irritate fake Caesar with laser pointers.

    You know, I wonder know if Trump had a good reason to avoid the Democratic Correspondent’s Dinner.

    Pinandpuller (56f4c6)

  372. For me this really isn’t a partisan issue, it’s an election integrity issue. I don’t want an investigation to prove collusion and run Trump out of town; I want an investigation that lets us find out what our vulnerabilities are and helps us reinforce and protect them against threats, and it disturbs the hell out of me that the administration doesn’t seem to care.
    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/14/2017 @ 6:21 pm

    Maybe someone should have detained those three Pakistani brothers who did IT for congress.

    Pinandpuller (56f4c6)

  373. The closest thing was the ending in kingsman, where the entire cabinet is revealed to be a tool of Jackson’s sky dragon worshipping tycoon among other thongs it showed how obsessed the Brits are with the westboro baptists
    narciso (d1f714) — 6/14/2017 @ 8:10 pm I

    I don’t think you saw the same ending I did.

    Pinandpuller (56f4c6)

  374. If a republican shot a democrat congress critter, Trump would be killed within an hour.

    mg (31009b)

  375. …by one his less loyal cabinet members no less.

    urbanleftbehind (34dded)

  376. Yes valentine was stopped in the end, btw Harry Hart is apparently alive, but remember the outrage when it was obliquely mentioned in the basilisk

    narciso (8d53f7)

  377. Kishnevi, Happyfeet, Beldar, DRJ, DCSCA, nk, thank you.

    Happyfeet, at 304:

    > not a fan of this guy

    One of my great flaws is my inability to convince myself not to despise him.

    I do not *want* to despise; despising someone is in a pretty fundamental way in opposition to everything I think is *good*.

    But I despise him.

    nk, at 316:

    One of the things that hurts the most about this is the knowledge that the ages are right for that generation to cascade. She was early, because she smoked, and … yeah.

    aphrael (61510a)

  378. Aphrael, first my condolences. It’s tough. Time is the fire in which we burn, as Delmore Schwartz wrote, but it’s also the library in which we learn.

    Losing relatives hurts so very much.

    I also want to thank you for writing as you do here, along with most of the people you mention above. I think that, especially nowadays, we are all culturally insane. Thank you for being thoughtful and polite, and seldom descending into nastiness and name calling. We all need to follow that path more, and better.

    Tactlessness is not honesty, bullying is not strength, overstatement is not conviction.

    My late father often told me that the measure of a person’s quality wasn’t how they treated people with whom they agreed. That was easy. No, it was how they treated people with whom they disagreed, or were nasty to them.

    I fall short of my father’s ideal often, but it’s something to shoot for.

    Best wishes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  379. “At the tender age of 69, my wife has convinced me I just can’t use those harsh terms,” he admitted. “I cannot and will not and I encourage even my friends/enemies on the left, in the Democrat and liberal world, that we have got to be civil to each other.”

    Ted Nugent

    WTF?

    Spartacvs (880018)

  380. > the right won’t compromise because we know the left is a bunch of anti American bigots.

    ie, the right can’t compromise because you think the left is subhuman, and you choose to express it by asserting your “knowledge” of a rude characterization and misinterpretation of their character.

    That’s no *characterization and misinterpretation* of anyone’s character, aphrael. That’s exactly what they are. And *both* sides are not equally responsible for all the violence. That’s either blindly naïve or a bold lie. Here are leftists celebrating Trumps election victory. Dis Republicans do this when that idiot Obama won?

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mX0CmxgMVoQ/WUJqv9fA-mI/AAAAAAABkCA/mDefOE5J1vYN-lv8VnsocEyZVHXNvD9vQCHMYCw/Trump_Riots_4_thumb%255B2%255D?imgmax=800

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QccNdpu7yBs/WUJqt78_pxI/AAAAAAABkB4/ZthoyoDv5lgJ3RQEDinFE7FpH7JrsJNpACHMYCw/Limo.%2Bburns%2Btrumpprotest_thumb%255B2%255D?imgmax=800

    Here are just the latest statements by leftist. I have 33 more. Show me this attitude on the right. This is the way the left plays. Not us.

    July 2016:

    -A Hillary Clinton supporter lights a flag on fire and attacks a Trump supporter in Pittsburgh.

    -Protesters jumped on cars, stole hats, fought with and threw eggs at Trump supporters outside a Trump rally in downtown San Jose. Trump supporters sued San Jose over the violence.

    August 2016:

    -Anti-Trump protesters attacked pushed, spit on and verbally harassed attendees forced to walk a “gauntlet” as they left a Trump fundraiser in Minneapolis, Minn., and beat an elderly man. Protesters also attacked Trump’s motorcade.

    –A Tennessee man was assaulted at a garage sale for being a Trump supporter.

    -A Trump supporter in New Jersey was attacked with a crowbar on the street.

    September 2016:

    -Protesters in El Cajon, Calif., chased and beat up a Trump supporter.

    October 2016:

    -A GOP office in North Carolina was firebombed and spray painted with “Nazi Republicans get out of town or else.”

    November 2016:

    -A high school student was attacked after she wrote that she supported Trump on social media. The perpetrator ripped her glasses off and punched her in the face.

    -The president of Cornell University’s College Republicans was assaulted the night after Trump won the election.

    -Students protesting Trump punched and kicked a Maryland high school student wearing a Make America Great Again hat.

    -A high school student was arrested in Florida after he punched a classmate for carrying a Trump sign at school.

    -A group of black men in Chicago attacked a white man while raging against Trump.

    -Maryland high school students punched a student who was demonstrating in support of Trump, and then kicked him repeatedly while he was on the ground.

    -“You support Trump. You hate Mexicans,” a California high school student yelled at a Trump supporter, before viciously beating the girl.

    -An anti-bullying ambassador was arrested for shoving a 74-year-old man to the ground in a fight outside Trump tower where people upset over his win had gathered. The woman tied to Black Lives Matter caused the man to hit his head on the sidewalk.

    -A Texas elementary school student was beaten by his classmates for voting for Trump in a mock election.

    -Two men punched and kicked a Connecticut man who was standing with an American flag and a Trump sign.

    December 2016:

    -A Trump supporter was beaten and dragged by a car.

    January 2017:

    -A Trump supporter was knocked unconscious after airport protesters repeatedly beat him on the head.

    -A Trump supporter was attacked after putting out a fire started by anti-Trump protesters.

    -When Trump protesters encountered a driver with a pro-Trump flag on his car, they surrounded the vehicle, ripped off and began burning the flag, and pounded the car. They also punctured on the tires.

    February 2017:

    -California GOP Rep. Tom McClintock had to be escorted to his car after a town hall because of angry protesters. The tires of at least four vehicles were slashed.

    -Protestors knocked a 71-year-old female staffer for California GOP Rep. Dana Rohrabacher unconscious during a protest outside the representative’s office.

    -Milo Yiannopoulos speech at the University of California-Berkeley was cancelled after rioters set the campus on fire and threw rocks through windows. Milo tweeted that one of his supporters wearing a Trump hat was thrown to the ground and kicked.

    March 2017:

    -Masked protesters at Middlebury College rushed AEI scholar and political scientist Charles Murray and professor Allison Stranger, pushing and shoving Murray and grabbing Stranger by her hair and twisting her neck as they were leaving a campus building. Stranger suffered a concussion. Protesters then surrounded the car they got into, rocking it back and forth and jumping on the hood.

    April 2017:

    -A parade in Portland, Ore.,was canceled after threats of violence were made against a Republican organization.

    -Fears of violent protests shut down Ann Coulter’s UC Berkeley speech. Campus police had gathered intel on protesters who were planning to commit violence.

    May 2017:

    – Republican Rep. Tom Garrett, his family and his dog were targeted by a series of repeated death threats deemed credible by authorities.

    -FBI agents arrested a person for threatening to shoot Republican Rep. Martha McSally over her support for Trump.

    -Police in Tennessee charged a woman for allegedly trying to run Republican Rep. David Kustoff off the road.

    -Police in North Dakota ejected a man after he became physical with Republican Rep. Kevin Cramer at a town hall.

    -A former professor was arrested after police said they identified him on video beating Trump supporters with a U-shaped bike lock, leaving three people with “significant injuries.”

    June 2017:

    -James Hodgkinson opened fire on a congressional GOP baseball practice, injuring five, including House Majority Whip Steve Scalise.

    -Republican Rep. Claudia Tenney received an email threat that read, “One down, 216 to go,” shortly after the shooting at the Republican congressional baseball practice.

    -A man driving a white Malibu reportedly fired several shots at a man driving a truck displaying a “Make America Great Again” flag in Indiana.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  381. BTW aphrael, have you noticed when Republicans or conservatives or TeaPartyers gather together for a rally, a lecture a meeting or a speech there are American flags or Gadsden flags scattered about? Then the Democrats and union thugs and leftists show up waving Red communist flags, union flags, black antifa flags, moslem flags, Mexican flags and rainbow flags but no American flags.

    Interesting.

    In my neighborhood I can pick out the leftists on Memorial Day, Independence Day, Flag Day, Veterans Day and Labor Day. Guess how?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  382. harkin in the no tapes tweet thread quiting from the Federalist: @ 5:56 am today

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/22/the-fbis-briefing-on-the-gop-baseball-shooting-couldnt-be-more-bizarre/

    The FBI admits that Hodgkinson:

    •vociferously raged against Republicans in online forums,
    •had a piece of paper bearing the names of six members of Congress,

    They say, though, that that was not a hit list. Two others on the list of 6 were at the ballgame practice besides Scalise.

    •was reported for doing target practice outside his home in recent months before moving to Alexandria,

    This misses the biggest point:

    he had just ought the two firearms he used

    Another arggument for my version of gun control. Ten people no more than three from any one sex must cerfiy that someone knows how to use a gun or will learn and will prevent it from being stolen. With some kind of penalty for being wrong. And that whenever anyone buys a gun all ten people need to be notified.

    •had mapped out a trip to the DC area,

    •took multiple photos of the baseball field he would later shoot up, three days after the New York Times mentioned that Republicans practiced baseball at an Alexandria baseball field with little security,

    I figured he got that information from the Internet, particularly as he wanted to verify, at the last moment, that the people there were Republicans.

    •lived out of his van at the YMCA directly next door to the baseball field he shot up,
    •legally purchased a rifle in March 2003 and 9 mm handgun “in November 2016,”

    I read something to the effect hat they were purchased this March.

    •modified the rifle at some point to accept a detachable magazine and replaced the original stock with a folding stock,
    •rented a storage facility to hide hundreds of rounds of ammunition and additional rifle components,
    •asked “Is this the Republican or Democrat baseball team?” before firing on the Republicans,
    •ran a Google search for information on the “2017 Republican Convention” hours before the shooting,
    •and took photos at high-profile Washington locations, including the east front plaza of the U.S. Capitol and the Dirksen Senate Office.

    We know from other reporting that the list was of six Republican Freedom Caucus members, including Rep. Mo Brooks, who was present at the practice.

    So what does the FBI decide this information means? Well, the takeaway of the briefing was characterized well by the Associated Press headline about it: “FBI: Gunman who shot congressman had no target in mind.” The Associated Press reported the FBI:
    •believes the gunman “had no concrete plan to inflict violence” against Republicans,
    •“had not yet clarified who, if anyone, he planned to target, or why,”
    •believes he may have just “happened upon” the baseball game the morning of June 14, and that the attack appeared “spontaneous,”

    Completely ridiculous. Yes, he did not aim at any particcular person except maybe for Scalise, but it wasn’t spontaneous. This was probably the last day of practice, or he couldn’t be sure they would back the next day.

    The FBI is probably like this all the time – they minimize anything and everything that might possibly had been a warning had they knowm.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)


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