Patterico's Pontifications

8/26/2016

Rapprochement with Iran Continues to Advance Peace (Not Really)

Filed under: General — JVW @ 4:10 pm

[guest post by JVW]

We’ve slayed a lot of electrons on this site lamenting President Obama’s ridiculous and self-serving overtures to the Islamic Republic of Iran despite the provocations, prevarications, agitations, and humiliations that Iran has treated us to since the “Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action” was signed last year. Meanwhile, we have been subject to lie after lie from the Administration as they desperately try to convince us that on balance Iran’s nebulous and insincere promises to curtail their nuclear weapons program justifies our lifting of sanctions and paying them ransoms.

So now comes further proof that Obama’s capitulation has only emboldened Iran to take a more assertive and aggressive posture in the Middle East. On Tuesday, Iranian patrol boats near the Strait of Hormuz (in recognizable international waters, according to American officials) performed aggressive intercept maneuvers against the USS Nitze, coming within 300 yards of the American destroyer despite repeated warnings to keep a safe distance (footage can be found here). Earlier today, the USS Squall fired three warning shots from its .50 caliber gun in the direction of an Iranian vessel which ventured within 200 yards of the American patrol ship. As with the Tuesday incident, the Iranian boats ignored repeated warnings via radio, flare, and airhorn. For their part, the Iranians claim that the American boats are entering Iranian maritime region without authorization.

State Department Spokeswoman Elizabeth Trudeau, last seen ’round these parts lying about the Administrations lies concerning Ben Rhodes, the Iran deal, and skillful video editing, channeled the full fury of her boss, Secretary of State (and Navy man!) John Forbes Kerry, in declaring that Iran is “unnecessarily escalating tensions.” I wonder if she and her boss have been briefed that the number of naval provocations by Iran against American ships is on track to be up 50% over last year. Perhaps they have, since their own department earlier this week advised Americans traveling to Iran that they are under increased danger of being detained or arrested in that country.

Yeah, this is the cherry atop President Obama’s foreign policy sundae, isn’t it?

– JVW

108 Responses to “Rapprochement with Iran Continues to Advance Peace (Not Really)”

  1. [Warning blast from my airhorn.]

    JVW (f97acd)

  2. Rockin’ the Casbah Nukin’ the Mullahs

    Now King Barry told the Air Force men
    You can’t let that warhead drop
    The oil down the Iran way
    He won’t make teh sellin’ stop
    Khameini drives Toyota trucks
    Just like the other terrorist scum
    Teh people know Khameini sucks
    Teh Air Force lookin’ for a scrum

    Barry don’t like it
    Nukin’ teh Mullahs, nukin’ teh mullahs
    Barry don’t like it
    Nukin’ teh mullahs, nukin’ teh mullahs

    By order of the prophet
    Child rape is common law
    Degenerates have sex with sheep
    You can stick that in your craw
    When their women cut men off at night
    They wanna really make ’em pay
    As soon as the men get wind of it
    They Do Ghotbzadeh

    Barry don’t like it
    Nukin’ teh mullahs, nukin’ teh mullahs
    Barry don’t like it
    Nukin’ teh mullahs, nukin’ teh mullahs

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  3. “Make ’em pay” and “Ghotbzadeh” is the single greatest rhyme ever constructed. You are at the heigh of your powers, Colonel.

    JVW (f97acd)

  4. Why thanks, JVW… Just having some fun.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. yes, you got the cadence as well as the rhyme,

    narciso (732bc0)

  6. Today a resolute and angry U.S. Commander in Chief has ordered the deployment of a floating 4 inch diameter rope of the same material as “ski rope” along the full length of the Hormuz Strait indicating the “official sea lane” of the United States Navy.

    The highly visible red colored rope is to be drawn taut and attached to warning buoys that state in 4 languages recognized in the region: RED LINE IN WATER — DO NOT CROSS!

    President Obama has not indicated any actions he will take in the event Iranian vessels do cross the “red line” or otherwise vandalize and damage it or spray graffiti on the warning signs.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  7. Greetings:

    Another triumph of the Rules of DIsengagement over letting our sailors do their jobs. A 50 caliber machine gun at 200 yards results in rather small pieces of anything contacted.

    Can’t help but wonder who the JAG, JAGette, or JAGoff involved was.

    Too bad Jimmy Carter didn’t strike while the iron was hot and show the mullahs what B-52s do for a living.

    P.S. The decimal point in .50 cal is mathematically incorrect as a caliber is defined as one-hundredth of an inch.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  8. They’re mad that President Trump’s linking ISIS to Obama has murdered recruitment, now they’re doubling down by beating up on Obama’s Navy, which still can’t hit them back.

    There’s a lesson there somewhere.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  9. If any GOP president had this much of a cockup, the press would be ripping him a new asshole daily. But Obama? It’s a sure-fire way to end your journalist career most places to criticist a Dem president.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  10. Say hello to my little friend, the Phalanx gun.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  11. JVW, it’s called escalation of force.

    Earlier today, the USS Squall fired three warning shots from its .50 caliber gun in the direction of an Iranian vessel which ventured within 200 yards of the American patrol ship.

    But the crew handled it correctly. The SQUALL (PC-7), in company with the
    USS TEMPEST (PC-2), was ready. unlike those no-loads in those riverine craft.

    Ma Deuece speaks, the Iranians listen. Actually, they were playing nice,
    just using the .50 to brush them off.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3cAu2hAdJQ

    M242 Bushmaster Chain Gun Live Fire And Training

    The CYCLONEs have two of those.

    I believe it’s still the case that the CYCLONE PCs belong to Naval Special
    Warfare. Which meant, when I was in, that that the crew are Naval Special
    Warfare Combatant Crewmen (SWCC). Not quite SEALs, but still SPECWAR. They
    don’t d**k around. There are ten CYCLONEs operating in the Gulf, have been
    for years. I suspect the Iranians are familiar with them now. And know not
    to try to push the envelope.

    For their part, the Iranians claim that the American boats are entering Iranian maritime region without authorization.

    It’s what we do. FONOPS. Freedom of Navigation Operations. A coastal state
    can declare a maritime zone. That’s fine. But they can’t preclude innocent
    passage or transit passage. That’s the law of the sea, and we in the Navy
    used to be pretty aggressive about laying down the law.

    It appears that the USS NITZE (an Arleigh Burke, DDG-94) and unreported here
    USS STOUT (another Arleigh Burke, DDG-55) involved in another confrontation
    with the IRGCN, also acquitted themselves well. You don’t need SPECWAR to deal
    with this. Any crew of any ship or boat in the Navy should be ready for this.

    Which brings me back to the capture of those two riverine command boats. And how nauseous it makes me.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/30/politics/iran-navy-capture-investigation-report/index.html

    Navy report: Failure at every level for US ships captured by Iran

    If anyone wants to view the catalog of failures, they’re readily available. Note: I’ve not seen the actual results of he inquiry, as it is clearly classified, but I can only work from press reports and experience. And while I don’t trust the LHMFM as far as I can throw them, some things are so
    obvious to anyone who ever operated in the vicinity of Iran that it’s like, “Well, duh.” Or, to know it’s true, you just had to operate, period. Running trough them off the top of my head wouldn’t do the list justice. I would miss some. All I can add is that discipline and training is what is required months in advance of being faced with the situation. And discipline and training were obviously lacking.

    When I was in, and this may have changed, Naval Coastal Warfare which has now morphed into Naval Expeditionary Warfare, was entirely a reserve mission. I have a suspicion that the crew of those riverine craft were reservists. I have not seen this spelled out and I could be wrong. I have a great deal of respect for everyone in the reserves. I was a reservist myself.

    But because of the mix of my active duty and reserve service (first ten years active duty, then
    another three recalled to active duty) I recognize certain realities. My acquaintance with small boat operations almost entirely stems from my tour in Harbor Defense. We were basically a headquarters unit. It was our job to pitch camp. Literally, we had six-by trucks and tents. And set up something called the MAST, or Mobile Ashore Support Terminal. We never successfully did it once the entire time I was serving in that command. And it wasn’t because reservists are stupid or not sufficiently committed. It’s because there’s only so much you can do in the four 4 hour
    drill periods that comprise a drill weekend.

    We were saddled with so many administrative requirements that all of Saturday
    morning and half of the afternoon was eaten up. And then we’re going to load
    up the trucks, drive to our camping spot, set up the tents and the MAST, get
    it up and running, spend the night, and tear it down and be back and ready to
    have everything properly stowed by 4:00pm Sunday? No, it was just not possible.

    The other elements which we worked with to theoretically provide harbor defense, including the the small boat operators, were also reserve units and labored under the same handicaps. We offered Big Navy ideas, like let us combine reserve weekends so we could have four days. If we had four days, we could have gotten the job done. No deal. Big Navy is not flexible like that.

    So while not stupid or not dedicated, you could hardly describe our reserve operation
    as professional. And that surrender is the definition of not professional.

    The crew of those PCs and DDGs are professionals and I believe therein lies the difference.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  12. it’s a hudna, I don’t know if there are shia counterparts to hudaibiyah, but it is one,

    narciso (732bc0)

  13. P.S. The decimal point in .50 cal is mathematically incorrect as a caliber is defined as one-hundredth of an inch.

    11B40 (6abb5c) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:57 pm

    Not always. In the navy “caliber” refers to barrel length. So a 5″/38 caliber gun is 38 times the width of he bore and a 5″/54 caliber gun is a naval rifle that is 54 times in length of the 5″ bore.

    I realize the Navy speaks an entirely different language that is definitely not standard American English.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  14. JVW (f97acd) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:17 pm

    I second that. Clearly a syzygy.

    felipe (023cc9)

  15. narcisso, the Shia don’t need a counterpart to Hudaybiyyah as the Muslims
    broke that treaty before the Schism.

    I’ve been trying to patiently explain Islam, and maybe I’m telling you something you already know. You appear quite knowledgeable on the subject, and that’s not unusual to run across, but it’s also not common among the general populace. So
    don’t get upset with me if you know this.

    The Shia have the same Quran as the Sunni. And the Quran commands them:

    Surah 4:59 An-Nisa (The Women)

    O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and thosein authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

    Surah 4:65 An-Nisa (The Women)

    But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.

    Surah 4:115 An-Nisa (The Women)

    And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers – We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.

    Surah 33:21 Al-Ahzab (The Combined Forces)

    There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

    I could go on; that’s a small sample. But both Sunni and Shia believe that Muhammad was the perfect man and the absolute moral example if you want to avoid h3ll and see paradise. So the Shia don’t need an alternative to Hudaybiyyah as the agree. Muhammad did it. And if Muhammad did it, it’s right. And if Muhammad said it, Muslims must believe it or, as the passages I cited and others I could have cited make clears, Muslims commit apostasy and
    are no longer Muslims and are destined for h3ll.

    Islam is more about worshiping the supposed “prophet,” and has very little to do with worshiping the moon god. It’s why the Sunnis derive their name from the Arabic “Ahlus Sunnah wa’al Jema’ah;” the adherents of Muhammad’s example (or Sunnah) and the congregation (or the authority of the scholars).

    The Shia aren’t much different. The Sunni have their canonical texts, the Khutub al Sitta or the Six Books (often referred to as the “Sahih Sitta” or the “Reliable Six”) and the Shia have their Khutub al Arba or the Four Books of ahadith.

    Where they differ is this; the chain of transmission of ahadith. The Shia do not accept certain sources as reliable. They consider the first three caliphs, Abu Bakr, Ummar, and Uthman to be usurpers. Ali should have been the first caliph by hereditary right. And they consider anyone who opposed Ali to be usurpers. They have particular enmity for Aisha, who led an army to fight Ali at the Battle of the Camel (the Sunnis named the Battle of the Camel after Aisha’s mode of transportation rather than Aisha herself because they were embarrassed at the thought of a woman exercising generalship).

    So in the Shia canonical texts you will not find the first three caliphs, Aisha, or certain others as sources of ahadith. The Shia simply will not let go of the grudge, but to be fair neither will the Sunni. Thank God. So what started as a dispute over succession to the throne, so to speak, has developed into something more in terms of theology. But not much more; it’s like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Or if you blaspheme if you cross yourself from left to right as opposed to right to left. All he schools of Sharia agree on about 80% of the rules.
    They disagree on relatively minor crap. OK, if someone apostatizes, how many days to you give them to repent before you kill them? If someone is gay, how do you kill them? if you start with Muhammad you basically end up in the same place. And both Sunni and Shia revere Muhammad, so ISIS throws gays off of buildings and Iran hangs them from cranes.

    P.S. 11B40, all due respect. Those sailors had more at their disposal. They were just letting the Iranians know they could kill them if they wanted to. So back off. And the Iranians did, and everything was cool. For now.

    But they really couldn’t do any more than they did.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  16. well I have a curiousity about all religions, I do not mock the ones who are motivated enough to kill me if need me, this is why the charlie hebdo strategy seemed ill considered, footnote from salman rushdie,

    narciso (732bc0)

  17. I can’t say the same, narisso, for instance I don’t have much curiosity about the Jains, and Jainism really is a religion of peace. I know something about it, but I’m not about to embark on a research project because they’re not out to kill me, or anybody.

    This is how you recognize religions that advocate violence from those that decry it. You never actually hear about the ones that decry violence. As the old press saying goes, “If it bleeds it leads.” The Muslims make the headlines.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  18. Oh, by the way.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2560683/Iranian-mullah-revives-death-fatwa-against-Salman-Rushdie-Satanic-Verses-25-years-issued.html

    I despise TFG in the WH because he thinks we’re stupid.

    It’s true not religion advocates the killing of the innocent. But the Quran is
    a screed against those who are “enemies” of Allah and hence not innocent.

    And, again, then there’s the hadith collections, which amplify the situation.

    http://sunnah.com/abudawud/40

    (2) Chapter: The ruling regarding one who reviles the prophet (pbuh)

    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

    A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.

    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

    He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

    Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

    Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani)
    Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4361
    In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 11
    English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4348

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  19. well the major ones, specially after september 11th,

    narciso (732bc0)

  20. Just say “uncle,” Narciso.

    Steve, your points are always very well taken by yours, truly.

    felipe (023cc9)

  21. But maybe I am part of the choir?

    felipe (023cc9)

  22. well I’m just a curious amateur, now there is no excuse for glenn kessler,

    https://counterjihadreport.com/2016/08/26/wapo-fact-checker-misleads-on-huma-abedin-the-muslim-brotherhood-whats-the-truth/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    he learned whitewashing at arafat’s knee, apprenticing to be the post’s thomas friedman, they already had one,

    narciso (732bc0)

  23. Notwithstanding that it may also mean 0.01 inches, caliber denotes a nominal size, really the name, for standardized ammunition, so you’ll know to stick the thing that’s labeled on the ammunition box in the thing that’s stamped the same on the receiver. .50 BMG; or 9 x 19 Parabellum; or .45-70-405 Government are all calibers. 🙏

    nk (dbc370)

  24. I read in the Christian Science Monitor [http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Passcode/Passcode-Voices/2016/0115/Opinion-Were-US-sailors-spoofed-into-Iranian-waters] that the riverine craft that the Iranians seized may have had their GPS system “spoofed” by the Iranians. This technology may have been provided by the Russians. There is also the 2011 loss of a U.S. drone. This threat can be foiled, but it will take a land-based eLoran GPS system, which is expensive.

    Golden Eagle (4050ff)

  25. Golden Eagle, there’s still no way out of this. I can use a sextant, a compass, and a
    chart. And I’m not a ship driver.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11931403/US-navy-returns-to-celestial-navigation-amid-fears-of-computer-hack.html

    I can take a fix and verify if the GPS is telling me the truth or lying.

    They have no excuses.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  26. http://www.landfallnavigation.com/-nd026.html

    The basic sextant from Davis Instruments

    No excuses.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  27. it’s possible, but it sounds too much like the plot in ‘tomorrow never dies’

    narciso (732bc0)

  28. And binoculars, for coastal navigation. I can use those.

    Hotdiggety!

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  29. “unnecessarily escalating tensions.”

    Not only that! She said their harassment was unsafe and unprofessional!!

    They must be recoiling in horror at such strong words.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  30. Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/26/2016 @ 8:50 pm

    Actually, they have an excellent excuse.

    Incompetent crewman to Superior officer: With all due respect, sir, I am not Steve57.

    felipe (023cc9)

  31. #Strong words-drop the mic.

    felipe (023cc9)

  32. narcisso, this was something foreseen. The article I cite is about reintroducing celestial navigation into the Naval Academy curriculum. But I after Canoe U. dropped it, it was still taught in the fleet. There were a couple of years where someone might have fallen through the cracks. But still.

    If you are going to to call yourself a professional naval officer you have to be able to determine where you are in the world without GPS.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  33. felipe, I can still here my DI at AOCS hammering it home it into me, “Attention to detail, candidate, attention to detail”

    You never forget your DI.

    My dad the Radioman Senior Chief taught me in no uncertain terms the same lesson. H3ll, my parish priest, the Monsignor, captured eleven NORKs at the point of his .45.

    I worked with Marines. The officers I knew would make sure that at least of the start of the operation every round of machine gun ammunition was spotless. Because you do not want a malfunction.

    I’m not perfect. I’ve fallen short. But I knew the standard I was supposed to live up to. And if I didn’t and harm resulted, I’d self-report. It’s life or death, felipe.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  34. “hear”

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  35. http://www.albanyherald.com/news/former-blue-angel-commander-speaks-to-students/article_47ccd541-11db-5751-b2d9-947f97151d50.html

    Cochran became a member of the Blue Angels in 1985 after having flown more than 2000 hours in jet fighters and completing 469 carrier landings. In this initial assignment he remained with the squadron for three years. In 1994 Cochran replaced Robert E. Stumpf as commanding officer of the Blue Angels group, when Stumpf was grounded as a result of the “tailhook” scandal.

    In 1995 Cochran removed himself from the responsibility of squadron commander under circumstances some considered “mysterious,” grounding himself and canceling a performance, citing “loss of confidence” and what he called “flaws in his flying.”…

    If you can’t do the job, step aside. That ship is sovereign US territory, and if you’re responsible for, you need to act like it.

    Petty Officer Mayo did.

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1688186/mahan-jagman.pdf

    It would be more accurate, felipe, to say that when called to account, I’m no Mark Mayo.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  36. Don’t sweat it, Steve57, you would have been a second rate Mark Mayo, instead of a First Rate Steve 57.

    felipe (023cc9)

  37. felipe, please clarify your last comment. If current understanding is correct, it lowers my opinion of you. And I don’t want to do that without clear evidence.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  38. I’m trying to understand what you said. And if I could be a second rate Mark Mayo instead of a first rate Steve57, I could die a happy man.

    And I have no problem with that. Have I calibrated you correctly?

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  39. Wikipedia tells us that the USS Squall (great name!) is a coastal patrol ship whose complement comprises “4 officers, 24 men, 8 Special Forces.” Her armaments include a pair of those .50-cals, but ramp up nicely to a pair of Mk38 25mm chain guns, a couple of grenade launchers (familiar to SwiftVets, I think); and a half-dozen Stinger missiles, for surface-to-air threats, I’d imagine.

    So basically firing three warning shots into the water from one of their .50-cals is about smallest incremental step up from firing warning flares.

    I’m thinking one of those chain guns or some CIWS action might be more appropriate the very next time, but of course I’m a globalist chickenhawk neocon who still believes we did the right thing by toppling Saddam Hussein.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  40. Beldar, the USN originally consisted of six frigates. The Constitution, the Constellation, the United States, the President, the Chesapeake, and the Congress. From the start, we knew we couldn’t be getting into gunfights with everyone.

    Although. Hello! Anyone who says we are not traders is ignorant of history. It’s why we have a Navy.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  41. @Steve57, re #11 above, I realized as I was hitting “Submit Comment” on my #39 above that I ought to first skim for a comment from you. And then I confirmed it!

    By way of apology, here’s a cool link you’ll appreciate, if you haven’t seen it (I got it from Prof. Reynolds): Interactive Map Showing Every Single Cargo Ship in the World. Those little moving dots are the consequence of what you’re talking about above, re maintaining freedom of the seas. There would be no 21st Century global economy to be threatened by a trade/tariff war now, but for the U.S. Navy keeping those lanes open. When I looked at this, I thought to myself: “Alfred Thayer Mahan would have totally dug this map.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  42. …I’m thinking one of those chain guns or some CIWS action might be more appropriate the very next time, but of course I’m a globalist chickenhawk neocon who still believes we did the right thing by toppling Saddam Hussein.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 8/26/2016 @ 10:19 pm

    Beldar, I love you like a brother, as much as that’s possible over the interwebs.

    And I agree with you that toppling Hussein was the right thing.

    But the .50s were the right choice in this case.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  43. Beldar, sorry for being too quick on the trigger finger.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  44. This will all be inconsequential once Hillary becomes President.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  45. Cruz Supporter, I’m convinced it is already inconsequential now. And you’re just finding out too late.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  46. No, no — I don’t disagree, re the 50s! Nor with shooting them in the water, nor anything else done here! I’ve no fault to find, no reason to quibble or complain.

    Next time, though, should something more robust ought be displayed? Because the Iranians will push until they can’t.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  47. Beldar, It’s nice, finding a lawyer agreeing that every once in a while, you have to resort to the .50s.

    I knew I moved to Texas for a reason.

    And I knew everyone who said I’d only infect Texas with Kali values was dead wrong.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  48. Level the dunes and watch the world heal.

    mg (31009b)

  49. Who are you for, mg? you who acccusing me of effetcively being for hitlrey?

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  50. obama is prepared to demonstrate he means business. As a display of force to show what he is willing do to our allies he will nuke Tel Aviv, so, iran will be afraid of what he might do to our enemies, if, and only if, he ever perceives iran to be an enemy.

    Jim (a9b7c7)

  51. The ground has shifted and warmonger Brzezniski has altered course:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-26/broken-chessboard-brzezinski-gives-empire

    Now that we are well and thoroughly hosed, of course.

    DNF (755a85)

  52. 50. It’s a binary choice 57, kiss off.

    DNF (755a85)

  53. America is fast becoming the place where black is the color and none is the number.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. 54. “A house divided cannot stand”. EoS.

    DNF (ffe548)

  55. when you divide a house everything gets awkward and people look at you mean and sometimes tearfully over their knitting needles

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. #53 DNF,

    The #NeverTrumpers says it’s not a binary choice because you technically have a choice to stay home and binge watch Netflix on Election Day. Or you can vote for Joe Blow of the Constipation Party because he’s a genuine proponent of liberty!
    See!? That’s proof it’s not really a binary choice between Trump and Hillary! (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  57. it’s not a binary choice

    you can choose Mr. Trump but you’re probably worried he’d do a good job and hurt harvardtrash ted’s chances at him and his grimacing harvardtrash sacky taking their rightful pudge-pudge place as failmerica’s president and first sacky

    or you can vote to do stinkpig all up in it figuring that’s the best way to whet failmerica’s appetite for some butthurt harvardtrash pudge-pudge

    it’s a lot like vulcan chess

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. @53, your suggestion that I should “Kiss off” is typical but unkind.

    I will not take it to heart.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  59. I see the Trumptards are setting about early to win hearts and minds.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  60. excuse me Mr. 57 I’m trying to show the group how it’s not a binary choice you actually have TWO choices

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  61. Stop me if I’m wrong but binary equals two.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  62. oh good lord

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. Steve 57,

    mg was actually a Cruz supporter during the primaries.
    He famously drove up to New Hampshire from Massachusetts in order to meet him and get a photo.

    Like many of the rest of us, he recognizes that Trump’s the only realistic hurdle standing between stinkypig and the Oval Office.
    Voting for Joe Blow of the Constipation Party is not a “realistic” strategy for preventing Hillary from winning the keys to 1600 Penn Ave.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  64. Cruz Supporter, what part of “dislike” don’t you get?

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  65. It is a binary choice. To those who can only count up to “1, 2, 3, many”. Like “zero sum”, they don’t know what “binary” means. Among a great many other things they don’t know.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. binary means you have a 50% chance of doing corrupt criminal stinkypig all up in it

    but i reject this false dichotomy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. It’s more like a 95% chance. That she has. Is that a novenary or decenary choice?

    nk (dbc370)

  68. Novemetseminary?

    nk (dbc370)

  69. I hope Hillary will stop running ads with KKK mouth breathers endorsing Trump (Democrats endorsing the opposition) and talk instead about her record on the economy, healthcare, jobs and so on.

    She is recommending a tax increase, putting people back to work, Obamacare and sustaining the current course of foreign policy that has brought us to this moment in time. Also like to hear what she plans to do about Islamic Terrorism.

    Hillary… Hillary…. Hillary?

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  70. Not good…

    IS TED CRUZ FINISHED? New poll shows him losing Senate seat to Rick Perry in ’18

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/242371/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. 57 & ff. As the Master said, “if you are not with Me you are against Me”.

    Devoting your time, energy and strength detracting, maligning, and thwarting an effort is very definitely choosing against it and its success.

    Constitutional Conservatism is dead because we have now moved down Maslow’s pyramid of self-actualization to survival, as the Colonel alluded in 54.

    Greece is contemplating a wealth tax, Venezuela is rationing TP, the Bank of Japan owns half of the stock market, virtually all of the bonds, and will eventually own the nation.

    This trend is inexorable worldwide. To choose lay back and enjoy is to choose against fighting.

    DNF (755a85)

  72. They figure its more like wopr scenario, best not to play. Independents are supporting trump in Florida, and some other states.

    narciso (732bc0)

  73. nk,

    We know what it means if Hillary becomes President.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  74. Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/26/2016 @ 9:40 pm

    No, no, no. There has been a great mis-calibration! I meant my comment as a great compliment.

    I think it praiseworthy to emulate a hero to set and reach a goal, but I fear it can become a trap that may hold one back from being the “best they can be”, because heroes are honed in unrepeatable circumstances. I consider you to be an exceptional human being, Steve57. Please forgive me for my clumsiness.

    felipe (023cc9)

  75. This trend is inexorable worldwide. To choose lay back and enjoy is to choose against fighting.

    So how will electing Trump help fight that trend?

    kishnevi (b0adf2)

  76. Steve, you underestimate yourself.

    And this story applies

    A rabbi named Zusya died and went to stand before the judgment seat of God. As he waited for God to appear, he grew nervous thinking about his life and how little he had done. He began to imagine that God was going to ask him, “Why weren’t you Moses or why weren’t you Solomon or why weren’t you David?” But when God appeared, the rabbi was surprised. God simply asked, “Why weren’t you Zusya?”

    kishnevi (b0adf2)

  77. So how will electing Trump help fight that trend?

    kishnevi (b0adf2) — 8/27/2016 @ 12:03 pm

    Haven’t you heard? Trump is just soooooooo dreamy. He’s gonna build that wall, expel 11M illegals, renegotiate deals with China, kill ISIS, he’s gonna Make America Great Again.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  78. felipe, thanks for making things simple for me. I’m a simple guy. MA2 Mark Mayo’s Navy and Marine Corps Medal Citation:

    For heroism while serving at Naval Station Norfolk Security Detachment, Norfolk, Virginia on 24 March 2014. While performing his duties as Chief of the Guard, Petty Officer Mayo was alerted to a suspicious individual walking towards USS MAHAN (DDG 72) on Pier 1, Naval Station Norfolk. Petty Officer Mayo pursued the individual up the brow of the ship while both he and the Quarterdeck watch-standers directed the individual to stop and provide identification. Failing to comply, the individual approached the Quarterdeck, attacked and disarmed the Petty Officer of the Watch. After boarding the ship, Petty Officer Mayo realized that the Petty Officer of the Watch no longer had control of her weapon. With complete and total disregard for his own personal safety, Petty Officer Mayo immediately placed himself between the Petty Officer of the Watch and the assailant. While fearlessly engaging the assailant and shielding the Petty Officer of the Watch, Petty Officer Mayo was fatally wounded. His exceptionally brave actions saved the lives of four watch-standers and ensured the safety of the entire crew of USS MAHAN (DDG 72). By his courageous and prompt actions in the face of great personal risk, Petty Officer Mayo prevented the loss of lives, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

    Bushido, the real Bushido when samurai were fighting men, not the b@st@rdized Frankenstein pseudo Bushido enforced by the Japanese 1930s/1940s militarists, teaches that one can not choose to be brave on the battlefield but not on the tatami mat. Not in your own living room, where you think you are safe, so to speak.

    Mark Mayo was brave on the tatami mat of Norfolk Naval Station.

    Again, thank you for clearing things up.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  79. Bill H,

    You guys like to have fun with the goalposts.
    A lot of us are deciding to vote for Trump not because we think he’s the second coming of Calvin Coolidge, rather we believe he’ll less kooky than Hillary.
    That’s all.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  80. Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 8/27/2016 @ 3:26 pm
    And a lot of us think he is as bad as she is.

    But Bill was riffing off my question to DNF, who is a different type of Trump supporter than you.

    DNF posts articles from ZeroHedge allegedly documenting the “inexorable” ( his word) decline of the US, and sneers at/berates those of us who refuse to drink the Trump koolaid.

    But DNF never attempts an explanation of how electing Trump will help fight that decline and avert the economic catastrophe ZeroHedge is always predicting.

    So I decided to ask him for that explanation.

    kishnevi (8adcb8)

  81. you are do moral equivalence on stinkypig and Mr. Trump

    this is not perspicacity this is impertinence

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. Trolls. They must take courses on how to do it from Stormfront (but I’m not checking it out). Remember how the (Ron) Paulbots would flood the internets?

    #Trumpsucks
    #Trumpkinssuck
    #nevertrump

    nk (dbc370)

  83. You are clearly a Hillary! supporter, kishnevi. How dare you be so impertenant and challenge the wisdom of the new GOPe, also known as the Trumpkins, which knows what is best for you and what you MUST vote for or you are worse than Hitler.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  84. The Ronulans had it much easier. Nor Luap is a model of consistency in comparison to Trump expressing his views based upon what he sees every time he shakes the kaleidoscope.

    Rick Ballard (ce29ad)

  85. The lastest 538 shows Trump losing Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Meatchicken, Wimpconsin, Virginia, North Cackalackie, etc. Hillary has over an 80 percent chance of winning the General, and is projected to win over 350 electors. In fact, 538 is saying Missouri could be a swing state this year, which is a very bad thing for Trump.

    John Hitchcock (4d2dbe)

  86. remember who has been in red queen’s sidecar,

    https://twitter.com/OrenKessler/status/769625204259774464

    narciso (732bc0)

  87. The lastest 538 shows Trump losing Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Meatchicken, Wimpconsin, Virginia, North Cackalackie, etc. Hillary has over an 80 percent chance of winning the General, and is projected to win over 350 electors. In fact, 538 is saying Missouri could be a swing state this year, which is a very bad thing for Trump.

    John Hitchcock (4d2dbe) — 8/27/2016 @ 4:42 pm

    But, but, don’t you know the only reason Trump could lose is because I’ll stab him in the back?

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  88. I wish someone had informed me I had this power I was choking down McCain and Mittens. Now, all of sudden, I’m the kiss of death.

    e

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  89. your name ‘like mua’dib’s is a killing word, ‘with great power, comes . . .well you know the drill,

    narciso (732bc0)

  90. @90, you misstate the question, methinks. It’s not neither or. You can do both. I don’t thin morning stars, a noon sun shot, and evening stars is too much to ask.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  91. on sleeper cell, the cell leader from the kingdom, farik al fares, was operating as an israeli security expert, (which is ironic because the actor oded fehr, is israeli) just slightly less ridiculous than this reality,

    http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/08/27/d-c-metro-officer-isis-sympathizer-monitored-fbi-7-years-transit-system/

    narciso (732bc0)

  92. I voted for Reagan twice (the last worthy President we had), held my nose to vote for both Bushes twice, Dole once, did not vote for McCain but did vote for Palin, refused to vote for Flip Flopney or his running mate, will not vote for Trump.

    This election we will be electing either Mr Comacho or Mrs Comacho, unless Divine Intervention stops it. And I will not be a party to that election.

    John Hitchcock (4d2dbe)

  93. The whole Iran thing is the most baffling problem to me. What do we realistically do? We can’t bomb them or invade them, but we also don’t want them getting nukes. What’s the answer here?

    I don’t mean to sound like making excuses, but we do have to realize that their region is their region, their turf is not our turf. If Iranian naval vessels were creeping up and down the Atlantic coast just within international waters all the time, I don’t think we’d be too happy about that.

    I have no idea what a sane approach looks like.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  94. Well we don’t give them a 150 billion dollars they didn’t earn. Lets start there.

    narciso (732bc0)

  95. 76. How, indeed. After all we have an unelected bureaucracy that is inimical to the thrust of the middle class which Trump, regardless of his true intentions, champions.

    Moreover, we have an entrenched Congress and Judiciary(for the most part) to those aspirations, namely “America First”. This motto is interpreted to mean the welfare of Americans as the governed are to be placed ahead of their governments welfare and the oligarchy of corporate, deep-state, movers and shakers.

    Plainly, the prime weapon in this unknown’s arsenal will be obstruction, the veto, the bully pulpit. However, the electorate, reinvigorated with millions who had withdrawn from activity will be on his side and significant members of Congress, e.g., Jeff Sessions, the military, e.g., Flynn, and the new media will be on board.

    Hitchcock at 86, laughably holds out 538 who has totally blown this primary season for his glass empty effluent. The race these last weeks has clearly moved inside the margin of error with the undecided still above 10 percent.

    It is highly unlikely following two terms of the antiChrist undecideds will fall in the Democratic column. Stein is backing up and Johnson is a buffoon but both are more attractive to discontents on the Left than the Right.

    A margin of 5% will be enough to thwart attempts to steal the election especially without the wholehearted backing of TFG and co.

    The alternative to marking time you militate against, is wholesale surrender.

    Your turn Grasshopper.

    DNF (ffe548)

  96. 96. Personally, I think the Sunni-Shi’a conflict will sidestep Israel on the first breakout of hostilities. The two sides are focussed on that existential danger and on its resolution will then turn to the ‘final solution’.

    Our involvement only heightens our risk.

    DNF (ffe548)

  97. 91. No, you administer the kiss to yourself, Pilgrim.

    TX is in the win column regardless of what passes for thinking among the ‘lights’ of TX.

    DNF (ffe548)

  98. Well, then, you don’t need me. Which is also the message I’ve been getting from Der Donald because, silly me, I thought a candidate should try to earn my vote. But apparently not. So now we can all be happy.

    So, if Tejas is already in the bag, and I’m in Tejas, how are you Trumpkins going to blame me for President Hitlery!?

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  99. As Cyrus malik puts its not that simple, the kingdom the emirate and the sultanate, put out the deck of cards fir sunnis, at least since the haramain siege.

    narciso (732bc0)

  100. There’s nothing wrong with DJT. There’s just something wrong with me. Which can apparently be fixed by insults delivered loudly and slowly.

    Yes. This will work. This will put you over the top.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  101. He’s an imperfect vehicle, got that can we move on and challenged the arquillian ambassador please,

    narciso (732bc0)

  102. It’s true that Texas is probably going to go to Trump, but polls have been as close as six points recently, with a margin of error of three. It is far from certain Trump does win Texas because the democrats have yet to play their October surprise, and Trump continues to alienate his supporters by flip flopping. The vast majority of Trump voters do not like Trump at all, and are merely voting against Hillary. A solid third party option could blow Trump’s chances in Texas out of the water.

    But step back for a second and realize that Trump fans are arguing about whether the GOP nominee will win Texas. That’s how bad he’s doing. That’s why Hillary is considered the 95% likely winner. If we were arguing about whether Hillary was going to win Cali, of course that would mean she’s done nationally.

    It’s a shame. Cruz, Rubio, or even Jeb would be winning.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  103. Texas survey of favorable vs unfavorable opinions of Trump puts him in the hole by thirteen points. Texans do not like Trump. It’s just that they dislike Hillary even more.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  104. I don’t reproach i just remind what happened the last time one had a two minute hate, and for those with longer memories. Ann Richards and Leona guerrero

    narciso (732bc0)

  105. ohnoes Texans are do disapprove on sore loser harvardtrash ted?

    Overall only 39% of voters in the state approve of the job Cruz is doing, to 48% who disapprove.

    happyfeet (28a91b)


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