Patterico's Pontifications

2/24/2016

Your Anti-Trump Links for February 24, 2016

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:50 am

Let’s give this guy authority over the IRS and DoJ:

Patterico assignment desk: find the protestor that Donald Trump said he’d like to punch in the face, and ask him if he is willing to challenge Donald Trump, a 70-year-old man with Secret Service protection who can issue threats easily, to a boxing match. I wanted to do this myself, but can’t find the guy’s identity anywhere.

There was a Nevada entrance poll (of dubious value) saying Trump won the Latino vote. I think I found the Latinos they polled:

P.S. I do not agree with the tweeter’s baseless accusation that the Trump campaign was behind this, and have said so publicly. That’s Trey Gowdy style shenanigans.

David Marcus asks: How Close Was Trump to the Mob?

As one of a handful of people within reach of the most powerful office in the world Donald Trump must explain why so much of his early career is peppered with appearances by powerful underworld figures. Had Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, or Scott Walker bought so much as a used car from a known mafioso, it would be front-page news. Trump bought a piece of land for $1 million from the son of Philadelphia’s former mafia Don, and used it to launch a gambling empire.

It isn’t only Trump who has a responsibility here. The news media, which is enjoying his playful romp through electoral politics, needs to wake up on this story. Trump isn’t just fooling around this time. He wants to play in the big leagues, and in the big leagues they play hardball. The major investigative news outlets in this country with the resources and wherewithal to seriously scrutinize Trump’s ties to the mob need to start doing so, sooner rather than later.

Former mafia members need to be interviewed. Transcripts of wiretaps and interviews with the major players in Atlantic City and New York crime syndicates need to be reviewed. The work of Barrett and Johnson, among others over the past decades that show Trump’s underworld connections, need to be re-examined. Gary Hart and John Edwards learned that a serious run for president exposes all the dirty laundry, Trump needs to know that truth applies to him, too.

Yeah, it’s a stupid question to ask. I can’t imagine Hillary doing anything with it.

Note that what Marcus is asking for here, is for Trump to be held to the same standard the media applies to other candidates. Which may remind some of you of my recent post, where I noted the media’s utter refusal to do exactly that — even as Trump goes around saying “nobody does more than me about x” and “nobody knows more than me about y.” Well, the day that was published, I made an appearance on Doc Washburn’s radio show — the most listened-to talk radio program in Arkansas. It is fortuitous that Doc Washburn tweeted out a link to the audio of the interview yesterday, on the same day when Trump made the claim: “Nobody reads the Bible more than me.” Enjoy:

123 Responses to “Your Anti-Trump Links for February 24, 2016”

  1. Just listened to the audio again. I think that came off OK.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  2. I think that instapundit was right when he quipped that we were like zuul, choosing the form of our destructor, in Donald Trump.

    Regards

    JeffreyL (2eddb6)

  3. The Great Patterico sounds like a magic act that would appear in an Atlantic City casino owned by. . . oh, never mind!

    JVW (9e3c77)

  4. Trump sounds much like Obama when he claims to be better at every discipline than those who “ply the trade” for a living.

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  5. Very good interview. It looks like the interview is 20 minutes long, but it’s actually half that long and then it repeats.

    I encourage everyone to listen, not only because it’s Patterico being interviewed but because he addresses the election and things we’ve been talking about in a calm, fair, easy-to-understand way.

    DRJ (15874d)

  6. I guess we’ll have to elect him to find out who he’s lying to. My guess is “everyone.”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  7. Speaking of fraud, the fraudulent indictment against Rick Perry has just been dismissed.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  8. Where does Perry go to get his ton o’ flesh? http://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=17000

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  9. DRJ, the recording is as long as indicated, and it is interesting. The second part deals with Common Core, Bernie Sanders, socialism, appointments to the Supreme Court, and further reflections on the Trump phenomena.

    I think one element of Trump’s attraction that wasn’t discussed in the interview is Trump’s willingness to engage in battle in the media-sphere. As Patrick mentioned in the first portion of the interview, Trump does this with all sorts of unpleasant methods … lawfare, intimidation, and so on … but unlike the leadership of the Republican Party, he isn’t afraid to mix it up. The GOPe leaders in D. C. are such cowards that they think their favorite excuse for not using the powers of the purse lets them off the hook for not participating in our government. And that excuse is, of course, that the “media” will distort the issue and make them look foolish. So for six years they have sat on their hands and managed to look weak, cowardly, and foolish all at once.

    Trump is the rooster come home to roost. All those chickens squatting in the Capitol have created a vacuum that cries out for a cock-a-doodle-do!, and Trump is responding to the opportunity. It’s similar to the situation in the 1930s where the incompetence and self-serving of the Republicans then in Congress facilitated FDR’s transformation of America. And true to form, the GOPers are falling in behind Rubio and not Cruz, because they think Rubio is prettier and they know he won’t make as many waves as Cruz. They’re doubling down on failure.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  10. Patterico gets a tip-o’-teh-hat and a reacharound… http://ace.mu.nu/archives/361728.php

    Colonel Haiku (993483)

  11. I’ll bet he does have something on the Ricketts. They plead poverty at neighborhood meetings when they’re crying that they need to stomp on history and the neighborhood to revamp Wrigley Field. Meanwhile, Forbes says the Cubs have doubled in value since the Ricketts bought them, they’re the most profitable franchise and have the send highest revenues in the entire MLB. Trump may prove to be a useful idiot.

    CrustyB (69f730)

  12. Patrick,
    I’m not going to take a stand on Trump one way or another here. But as a Philly-area guy, I’ll share some knowledge on the David Marcus thing.
    No one who would have any substantive knowledge of the extent of Trump’s linkage with the Mob is going to talk. There is one possible exception — “Crazy Phil” Leonetti, who was Scarfo’s right-hand man in Atlantic City (the “Phillip” referred to in a quote in Marcus’ story). He’s in witness protection somewhere now.
    Anyone building anything in A.C. after gambling was legalized there was going to have to deal with Mafia fronts in some form or another. New Jersey was wise in aggressively keeping the Mob out of the casinos directly (unlike Las Vegas), but the mob went for and got the unions that would “control” the workforces. Plus, the shoreline nature of the town required rebar construction on large-scale projects such as a casino. The biggest and best of the rebar outfits in A.C. was owned by the Merlino brothers, who were lieutenants in the Scarfo-era Mob.
    The questions should be asked, for sure, but it seems that at some point Trump was going to have to run into a Mob front if he wanted to build in Atlantic City.
    I would also observe, based on what I’ve read, that Rahm Emanuel should answer the same questions about organized crime and Chicago city government… not only the Outfit (the Chitown version of the Mob), but the various Hispanic and Black gangs that control significant sections of the city.

    bob (2adf4e)

  13. Good job! I’m not hearing much Texas twang there, though. Does your accent revert when you go home?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  14. nice interview for the cause of truth.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  15. Patterico:

    George Bush begat Clinton (Arkansas gave him the moniker “Slick Willy”); Clinton begat GW (2 wars & WMDs in Iraq (see FRONTLINE’s THE LOST YEAR IN IRAQ; Postwar realities – lawlessness, insurgency & economic collapse – http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/ ); GW begat Obama.

    Listened to your taped interview. You failed to mention that in the 2008 election Obama was the ONE – who most in the media (and much of the populace) thought walked on water. Recall Chris Mathews – I feel a thrill running up my leg (and then one of Obama’s 1st appointments was tax cheat Tim Geithner as head of Treasury). Then in 2012 Obama LIED about the Benghazi Consulate? attack on 9/11/12 being caused by an obscure video; and LIED about you can keep your doctor, your health policy and everyone’s premiums will go down (and then Pelosi’s – We have to pass ObamaCare first, to then find out what’s in it, and Jonathan Gruber – We had to lie to the American people about ObamaCare to get it passed).

    Obama begat Trump.

    You are missing the fact that the biggest problem America faces is that we tolerate LYING to such a high degree that LYING has become our currency (making all other problems then just a symptom), and with being true, then the corollary is – then the truth does not matter much – and then with that being true, we then are mostly lost. And no one is more responsible for that condition then the judges/judiciary (today virtually all LAWYERS) – who had the special place in our society, Republic and Constitution of being the gatekeeper, the final backstop re TRUTH. They blew it.

    Again, Obama begat Trump. So isn’t it a little late in the game to now call foul, Trump lied?

    So how can this happen? Recall that the impetus for making Professional Responsibility a required law school course and part of the Bar Exam was because so many lawyers were involved in Watergate (including lawyer Richard “Tricky Dick” Nixon, Duke University, School of Law [1937]).

    And then see As stated in “Legal Ethics in an Adversarial System: Persistent Questions” by Deborah L. Rhode, Hofstra Law Review, Vol. 34, #3, Spring (2006) at page 659 –
    http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/hoflr34&div=30&id=&page= – :

    “Finally, law schools need to be more accountable for their own efforts, or lack of efforts, concerning professional responsibility. Issues of legal ethics, access to justice, and pro bono service are too often missing or marginal in core curricula.83 Equally troubling gaps are apparent in research priorities. On key questions involving professional roles, rules, and regulation, our knowledge base is shamefully thin. We are awash in theory and starved for facts. Too much professional responsibility scholarship is data-free doctrinal analysis, the fundamental equivalent of ‘geology without the rocks’.84”

    83. See RHODE, JUSTICE, supra note 7, at 201 (providing that part of the reason is that casebooks outside the field of professional responsibility offer little coverage of such issues).
    84. The phrase comes from Lawrence Friedman. See PAUL WICE, JUDGES AND LAWYERS: THE HUMAN SIDE OF JUSTICE 16 (1969).

    Obama begat Trump –> geology without the rocks –> IDIOCRACY (2006)- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ .

    Gary L. Zerman (114d1b)

  16. Trump and Rubio are all ego. Ted Cruz is humility. After 8 years of ego from BO we need Humility to restore the US

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  17. Great job. Fox news should have you on.

    mg (31009b)

  18. I would also observe, based on what I’ve read, that Rahm Emanuel should answer the same questions about organized crime and Chicago city government… not only the Outfit (the Chitown version of the Mob), but the various Hispanic and Black gangs that control significant sections of the city.

    bob (2adf4e) — 2/24/2016 @ 10:12 am

    This is a good and fair point

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  19. Ted Cruz is humility.
    jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 2/24/2016 @ 10:34 am

    Just checking – are you being serious?

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  20. I wish I had been the flunky for Old Whazzizname who was in charge of creating all of the fake Hispanic Twitter accounts to spread the candidate’s bullshit. Whoever it was did a pretty good job with some of the names: Pepe Luis Lopez, Francisco Palma, Pedro Villas, etc. But I would have come up with some real humdingers like Maria Elena Santiago-Holly, Ignacio “Nacho” Herrera, Esmerelda Bonita Sanchez, Ricardo Montalban Jones, Jennifer Selena Lopez and Eduardo “El Jefe” Montez. What a wasted opportunity. Que triste.

    JVW (9e3c77)

  21. Fitting for Trump to be popular in Sin City…

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  22. Just checking – are you being serious?
    carlitos

    Yes Carlito….The opposite of ego is humility….

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  23. The opposite of ego is humility….

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 2/24/2016 @ 11:58 am

    It is indeed, but what on earth does that have to do with Senator Ted Cruz? He is known for having a big ego.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  24. Anyone who presents themselves as a candidate for public office has a healthy ego. None of them are modern Eishenhowers who were talked into serving (though that’s not to say that Eisenhower didn’t have a healthy ego too).

    JVW (9e3c77)

  25. #20 JVW,

    Ricardo Montalban Jones is ‘da boss.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  26. Trump went to a private military academy instead of junior high and high school.

    That’s five years of military training. More than Rubio. More than Cruz. More than Carson. More than Kasich. Who all bundled together have how many years of military training? Carson participated in JROTC in Southwestern High School in Detroit.

    The rest of them… no.

    So you got a video of Trump saying over and over again he is the most militaristic (forgetting the negative connotation the media has promulgated upon the word).

    Bottom line: OF THIS BUNCH he is the most trained in military regimens.

    Not the second coming of Patton or Ike, but top of the heap in this pack of candidates.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  27. Trump our next president! Canada crud layed a turd. Punk rubio wet his pants. Crud suppository time to drink the kool aid.

    trump for president (a854ab)

  28. Umm, papertiger: Here’s a hint: For kids that age, military school is where they get sent because of disciplinary problems. The notion that Trump got some sort of meaningful experience there which he could use as Commander in Chief is just stupid.

    Is there no pitch you won’t swallow?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  29. papertiger, Trump has publicly admitted he got sent by his parents to that military school to due to his behavioral problems. By the way, George McGovern flew B-24 combat mission during WW2. But that doesn’t mean we should jump at the opportunity to elect McGovern as Commander-in-Chief. Right?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  30. bush was in the military sort of avoiding vietnam warriors. and he got us into iraq war quagmire.

    trump for president (a854ab)

  31. BobStewartatHome,

    Thank you for the correction! I’ve been having power issues so I should have realized the technical problem was happening on my end.

    DRJ (15874d)

  32. Trump our next president! Canada crud layed a turd. Punk rubio wet his pants. Crud suppository time to drink the kool aid.

    What, did they ban you from youtube comments?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  33. Some people think bill’s wife could be going to jail.
    It would be hilarious if Trump received a prison sentence in his upcoming court battles.

    mg (31009b)

  34. papertiger, if Jim Webb runs as an Independent, are you going to throw your support to him since he would be the candidate with the most military experience?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  35. Umm, papertiger: Here’s a hint: For kids that age, military school is where they get sent because of disciplinary problems. The notion that Trump got some sort of meaningful experience there which he could use as Commander in Chief is just stupid.

    Let’s channel Beldar’s comeback to something like that. So you are saying Military training is only for criminals, rejects, and drop outs under court order.

    Interesting.

    What papertiger would say is; I can’t figure why someone would brag about ROCT training, but even more of a headscratcher is why someone would put together a recording of someone talking about ROCT training as a hit piece, especially when the facts of the matter are on the whole true.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  36. CS I’d only vote for Jim Webb if he were running against Barbara Boxer. I’d have to suck hard and pull the lever for Diane Feinstein if it were Jim versus DIFI.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  37. enthusiastically for Jim Webb if he were running against Barbara Boxer. –

    Sorry had to make that clearer.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  38. So you are saying Military training is only for criminals, rejects, and drop outs under court order.

    Interesting.

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 2/24/2016 @ 12:49 pm

    Beldar did not say or intimate this.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  39. I guess Trump must have slept through the class in military school where they covered the nuclear defense triad, upon which American strategic policy has been founded since the end of WW2 and the birth of the atomic age.

    Everyone knows about strategic bombing in WW2, and how the war ended with the dropping of two atomic bombs on Japan. How didn’t Trump know this?

    The Germans, of course, had shown with the V2 program the threat from ballistic missiles; the threat that those could be coupled with the atomic bomb is precisely why America snatched up Werner von Braun and as many other German missile scientists as they could grab before the Russians did. Again, how didn’t Trump know this?

    Also before the end of the war, the U.S. was already experimenting with using submarines to launch and guide missiles. Hollywood was even making movies about that while Trump was a young boy, e.g., The Flying Missile (1950) with Glenn Ford, and they’re still regularly making those movies (e.g., “Hunt for Red October,” “K-19: The Widowmaker,” etc.). The entire nation celebrated the development of our own nuclear submarines and submarine-launched ballistic missiles in the 1950s and 1960s. How could any adult who’s paying the slightest attention to the world around him not know this?

    On this and so much else, Trump is simply a moron. He’s not well educated or well informed. He is a rich kid who’s lived in a pampered cocoon his whole life, but he thinks he’s the best, the smartest, the most superlative, blah blah blah.

    He’s pathetic, but the people who’re swallowing his BS are genuinely tragic.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  40. And don’t get me started about Donald Trump’s Vietnam-era draft evasion. Bone spur in his ankle — what a real tough guy! But he can’t remember which ankle, and he’d previously passed the qualifying physical.

    Man, you’re leading with your chin, papertiger. Go ahead, put some more words in my mouth without answering any of my questions. It just highlights how hard you and your candidate are having to strain to maintain this tissue of falsehoods and fabrications in Trump’s personal history.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  41. I’d be amused watching the Republican party tear itself apart like this if it weren’t so dangerous for the country. :{

    aphrael (3f0569)

  42. I’m calling baloney on the claim of the media being uneven regarding Trump. Why? Because they are willfully blind on other candidates too. Obama is a glaring past example.

    Or for a current example, one of the current presidential candidates has proven mob ties. I’m not refering to Trump, but Rubio: Rubio’s brother in law, Orlando Cicilia, is a convicted cocaine trafficker. In his book, Rubio glosses this over by saying he went to jail for a criminal enterprise, but that’s it. The fact Orlando Cicilia is a convicted bigtime cocaine trafficker is a matter of public record. So is that Rubio interceded on his behalf several times, including getting him a real estate license. We’re not hearing much about that, either, are we?

    Isn’t it a tad odd that our own major media outlets are largely silent on this, yet I see it in British papers?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3379762/How-young-Marco-Rubio-helped-drug-dealing-brother-law-real-estate-licence.html

    Here’s a totally crazy idea: how about the media actually do its job and look into ALL the candidates? Of course Trump’s past should be looked into, but that’s true of all the candidates. Too much to hope for I guess, because they rarely do. (It was a tabloid rag that broke the John Edwards story, not the MSM).

    The MSM will wait until the Republicans have a nominee, and then, and only then, will they look deep into their past.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  43. So you are saying Military training is only for criminals, rejects, and drop outs under court order.

    Interesting.

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 2/24/2016 @ 12:49 pm

    Beldar did not say or intimate this.

    carlitos (c24ed5) — 2/24/2016 @ 12:55 pm

    Yeah. Well, because the shoe is on the other foot this time.

    He has done that type of thing before though.

    papertiger, I think you just expressed approval for using government to threaten private parties for their political views.

    I have to say, Donald Trump is the right candidate for you. But that’s disgusting.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 2/22/2016 @ 9:08 pm

    In response to this post.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  44. papertiger, your dishonesty is so…dishonest.
    You wrote this to Beldar, “So you are saying Military training is only for criminals, rejects, and drop outs under court order.”

    No, papertiger, Beldar did not say anything close to that. You’re lying again.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  45. Anyone ever think again that the Trump is the hitman that is here to put the GOP down? I am feeling more and more that this is the case. Consider, that most other elections has seen media elements take on crazy types like this Trump guy and destroy them. Instead we are seeing the media almost actively cheering this killer because he will kill off the GOP? They act shocked that the dude is as wild and crazy as he is.

    So let’s take this hypothetical a little further. If this is true and Trump is the party killer, what is the fall back? With whom do we identify and declare a new party with? The last time we saw a party disappear almost 162 years ago. That was when the Whigs and radical Free Soil joined to make the GOP. So is it that time again and with whom do we rally around on what planks? The Tea Party are the radicals but aren’t very organized and they have some tinfoil wearing crowds as part of the base. The GOP is dying because they aren’t providing the ideas and innovation to battle the DNC at its game of bare knuckle political philosophy as well as being made up of the same sort of elites that scoff at the fly over country as what is made up of the DNC. Everything else out there from the losertarians to the constitution party are really one plank types and as it was proven in NH, the losertarians are all about cronyism and thuggery they demean the two main parties for. So it seems to me that we will see either a make over of the GOP this season or we will see it die off and the man who puts the first bullet in the body, or knife if you are a fan of the bard, is Trump.

    So again the question is what is next and what should the planks be for the new party that is conservative and for the working class and the white collar and individualism?

    Charles (599048)

  46. “I’d be amused watching the Republican party tear itself apart like this if it weren’t so dangerous for the country. :{”

    – aphrael

    Right?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  47. DRJ, you are welcome! I thought you must be having some weird issues with the internet. Computer problems are shockingly multi-faceted. The power supply (the AC to DC converter that charges my laptop’s battery) failed on Sunday, and it was a two day journey of discovery before I could turn it on again. In the meantime I gained a heightened appreciation of just how dependent I was on the “little” machine.

    Extrapolating, if the lights should go out on a regional basis for any period of time, say three days, the consequences are almost unimaginable.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  48. I’d be amused watching the Republican party tear itself apart like this if it weren’t so dangerous for the country.

    Yeah, it’s hard to swallow, but I think it might be a small squall compared to what could potentially happen to the other side should Sanders start winning primaries but be stymied by Hillary!’s superdelegate firewall. Not to mention the s***storm that would ensue if she were indicted before primary season ended.

    JVW (34f70e)

  49. I posited on another thread that history might remember 2016 as when the two-party system in America finally imploded under its own muck.

    JVW (34f70e)

  50. Trump/Burnie

    mg (31009b)

  51. Trump / Ditka!

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  52. JVW, agreed. I am really concerned about what happens if Sen. Clinton is indicted during the election season. I think the “Sen. Sanders has a majority of primary + caucus delegates but loses on superdelegates” scenario would be *bad* … and I think it’s unlikely to happen. Sen. Clinton is a terrible candidate but I think she’s a good enough candidate to avoid that.

    On a related topic – why do press people, etc, call her Secretary Clinton? Does being a cabinet Secretary really outrank being a Senator?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  53. Arizona CJ,

    You’re really angry at Marco Rubio—we get it.
    But he’s not responsible for the behavior of his brother-in-law. Not anymore than Ronald Reagan is responsible for his own father being a fall-down drunk who ran out on his rent payments.

    We’re a nation which gives people an opportunity to redeem themselves. Rubio’s brother-in-law paid his debt to society, and should be given the chance to re-build his life within accordance of post-incarceration guidelines within the law. Of course, we wouldn’t want a convicted child molester to take a job running an after school program at the YMCA.
    But someone who paid his debt for selling drugs is pursuing a future in real estate, and you’re upset by that?

    The liberal media did not pursue invetigations into the background of liberal Barack Obama. That’s expected. But the CONSERVATIVE media did not pursue investigations into the background of liberal Donald Trump. And that’s unexpected. There’s the distinction.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  54. See that. Even CS, through his fractured prism, got right to the heart of the matter. Didn’t even need coaching.

    Taking the most twisted bad will interpretation of a post and presenting it as if your interpretation were your target’s plain meaning is wrong.

    Tit for tat, Beldar.

    You call off the dogs, I’ll consider us even.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  55. papertiger,

    You always spike the football and proceed with an end zone dance—despite having been stopped at the 40 yard line.
    Donald Trump was sent to an expensive suburban military school because his parents were upset with his lack of discipline. He didn’t fight in a war, but even he he had, that still doesn’t mean he has inherent insights into foreign policy or national defense.
    Again, George McGovern flew F-24 bombing missions during WW2, but we still wouldn’t want him as President. Agree?

    Let’s remember, for all of Donnie’s chest-thumping about being knowledgeable in foreign policy, he had a complete meltdown when Hugh Hewitt asked him about the Quds Forces.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  56. JVW,
    I wouldn’t be surprised that the DNC kept her on the ballot because “it’s too expensive to reprint the ballots” or some other shennigans. Look at the number of local elections where a DNC member was in jail or even died during the election season and was still voted in. Can you imagine POTUS being in Levanworth doing the nation’s business? Or even the historical idea that a new election would have to be run right after she goes to jail but before she is read the oath of office?

    Charles (599048)

  57. Laundry day. Laundry day at Patterico’s.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  58. Well, Eugene Debs ran for the Presidency from jail, so why not Sen. Clinton? :)

    Whether or not Clinton would stay on the ballot would depend on the laws of the various states. Being a felon, or being in prison, isn’t a bar to being President – nobody can add to the Constitutional qualifications – but some states might allow a replacement on the ballot while others wouldn’t.

    Of course, the electors can’t be forced to vote a certain way, and so even Clinton-pledged electors might decide to vote for someone else. Although, for that matter, so could Trump-pledged electors.

    I still don’t think it’s *likely*, but I could see this election going to the House to decide. Note for those speculating: the House votes *by state* in such an election (each state having one vote).

    aphrael (3f0569)

  59. On a related topic – why do press people, etc, call her Secretary Clinton? Does being a cabinet Secretary really outrank being a Senator?

    I’ve wondered that myself. Trying to think of people with similar background. If you met Chuck Hagel right now how would you address him?

    JVW (34f70e)

  60. Senator Hagel, I think. At least until/unless he expressed a preference for a different form of address.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  61. Well, Eugene Debs ran for the Presidency from jail, so why not Sen. Clinton? :)

    James Michael Curley served as Governor of Massachusetts (or was it just Mayor of Boston?) from his jail cell.

    JVW (34f70e)

  62. I suppose a cabinet secretary theoretically is more prestigious than a United States Senator, seeing as how there are 100 senators at any given time but only fifteen secretaries. Or maybe that’s a dumb way of looking at it.

    JVW (34f70e)

  63. Rather than “Secretary Clinton,” or “Senator Clinton,” I’d prefer her to be called, “Federal Prisoner #285937494.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  64. Cruz Supporter – I don’t think it’s appropriate to call her that until and unless she is, in fact, a federal prisoner.

    But then I’ve got an … antiquated … view regarding political decorum.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  65. “I hear the Rickets family, who own the Chicago Cubs, are secretly spending $’s against me. They better be careful, they have a lot to hide!”

    Talk about a lot to hide:
    Trump and his university: YUUUGE FRAUD lawsuit.
    Thousands of plaintiffs totaling millions of dollars.
    Case set for Aug.

    Question: who will be convicted first? Donnie or Hillary? like Madoff:#NYValues

    jb (8a9f1d)

  66. aphrael, I’m sorry, man, it was just a joke. I was saying I prefer her to be called a federal prisoner than “Secretary” or “Senator.” Just for laughs. Bill and Hillary have each been quoted using the “F” word to people for the most minute infractions.
    As I hear it, the “F” word they used was not “federal.” (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  67. From Barron’s:

    Beneficiaries Of The Trump Agenda

    Defense, Cyber, & Homeland Security Companies: Expect to see a large boost in Defense, cyber, and homeland security spending as Trump focuses on fighting ISIS, enforcing the border and increasing intelligence work. Drones, prisons, communications networks, and cyber all stand to benefit…

    Infrastructure Companies: Companies are going to have to build the wall on the US border. We would also expect increased infrastructure spending to come with Trump’s tax reform changes…

    Domestic Companies Impacted By Global Trade: We find it a low probability that Trump can renegotiate existing trade agreements. But he can stop the current ones from moving forward, including the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Companies that would lose to foreign competition would benefit. And companies facing greater competition from China, including solar related companies, also benefit from the anti-China agenda.

    Hurt By The Trump Agenda

    Pharma: We see it as difficult for Trump to pass legislation allowing for price negotiation of Medicare prescription drugs but if Congress changes, risk will build into the sector…

    Outsourcing Companies: Although Trump has not specifically proposed changes to the H-1B visas for outsourcing companies, Trump’s protectionist rhetoric suggests that he would like to limit jobs for foreigners if US workers could do similar jobs. This may raise some risk to Cognizant Technology Solutions (CTSH), Wipro (WIT), and Infosys (INFY).

    Gerald A (7c7ffb)

  68. Hillary was a Senator before she was the Secretary of State, so maybe they use the most recent title. Or they could use the title because they want voters to believe the CBS show Madame Secretary is about her, which in a way it is

    DRJ (15874d)

  69. It’s an interesting question. When referring to him during the time in which he held neither office, is it appropriate to talk about *Chief Justice* Taft or *President* Taft?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  70. Perhaps the media are refusing to dig into these stories now and giving him a pass now. Because they want him to secure the Republican nomination. Then when he is up against Hillary, they will begin their onslaught, in the hopes of guiding Hillary to victory.

    I do not think this tactic will work, but it does seem plausible.

    TomK (760d73)

  71. aphrael, didn’t Taft die shortly after leaving the Supreme Court?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  72. Apparently so, Cruz Supporter, *and* it doesn’t answer the question :)

    aphrael (3f0569)

  73. I have a bugaboo about former Presidents still being referred to as “Mr. President.” My understanding is that once upon a time that title was only used for the current occupant of the Oval Office, with the former chief executives reverting to whatever their highest pre-Presidency title was. So we ought to be talking about Governor Carter, Ambassador Bush (I don’t think you would call him “Vice President Bush” either), General Eisenhower, Senator Johnson, etc. But that particular piece of archaic decorum seems to have fallen by the wayside.

    Imagine Richard Nixon being “Commander/Congressman/Senator/Vice President/President Nixon.”

    JVW (34f70e)

  74. The same standard the media used to scrutinize JFK, Teddy, BJ Clinton, Hillary, Kerry, Obama, O’Neill, Rhahm, Sharpton, Jackson, et al. Yeah. That standard.

    Kobeclan (43f425)

  75. JVW, not Congressman Bush? Or Director Bush? I would think both of those would outrank Ambassador, although maybe not – Ambassador used to be a pretty high rank, even if it’s not nearly as important in modern times.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  76. aphrael, so it appears Taft lived for five weeks after he left the Supreme Court. I would be interesting to find out whether or not people referred to him as “President” Taft or “Justice” Taft during that window of deteriorating health. (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  77. My *strong* suspicion is that they referred to him as President Taft.

    Which is … odd … given that the branches are theoretically coequal.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  78. In addition to being the 27th President and the 10th Chief Justice, the Miller Center says Taft was also the U.S. Solicitor General, U.S. Secretary of War, Governor General of the Philippines, and Provisional Governor of Cuba, assistant Secretary of the Navy, a Judge on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and Dean of the Cincinnati Law School. In addition, his father was Secretary of War under Grant and a Minister (now called an Ambassador) to Austria-Hungary and Russia. What an amazing life.

    DRJ (15874d)

  79. Interesting stuff there, too, about the Philippines and how long it took for them to learn self-governance.

    DRJ (15874d)

  80. I think the title of “Community Organizer Obama” has a special ring to it.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  81. @ aphrael (#52), who asked, “[W]hy do press people, etc, call her Secretary Clinton? Does being a cabinet Secretary really outrank being a Senator?”

    I’m just guessing, but perhaps they think that since she was in the line of succession for the presidency (behind the VPOTUS, Speaker of the House, and president pro tem of the Senate), the title associated with the cabinet seat outranks mere U.S. senators.

    @ JVW (#59), who asked, “If you met Chuck Hagel right now how would you address him?”

    I think I’d go with: “You big idiot.”

    @ aphrael (#69), who asked, “When referring to him during the time in which he held neither office, is it appropriate to talk about *Chief Justice* Taft or *President* Taft?”

    Taft himself likely would have preferred “Mr. Chief Justice” to “Mr. President,” and despite his resignation from the SCOTUS a few weeks before his death, the spot on the bench had life tenure. He probably would have frowned on “Your Eminent Walrusness” or anything like that.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  82. But he was such an eminent walrus! 😛

    The line of succession point is a good one, thank you :)

    aphrael (3f0569)

  83. Ted needs to hit Rubio the hardest on Thursday!! Ted needs to NOT go after Trump until he gets rid of Rubio! Ted will need Trump voters in the General.
    Ted needs to slam Rubio on immigration and on Amnesty that Rubio has given us!
    Rubio is the front man for amnesty!

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  84. Ted must pick off the Rubio Scab before he goes after Trump!

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  85. Ted must STOP apologizing to Carson and Rubio….. Trump has said and done far worse that Cruz and Trump never apologizes. Ted can be held accountable for politics during a political season that are out of his control.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  86. @ DRJ (#79): It’s interesting to compare the paths of guerrilla war and resistance in the Philippines to that in Iraq, isn’t it? That was in a time when the American public’s resolve and patience could be measured in years instead of weeks or months.

    I have serious reservations about, and criticisms of, Doris Kearns Goodwin’s The Bully Pulpit: Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, and the Golden Age of Journalism (2013), but the best part of it is her tracing of the relationship of TR and Taft. I already knew most of what she wrote about TR, but I learned a lot about Taft, especially about his service in the Philippines and Cuba. The only reason Taft agreed to become the governor-general there was that McKinley gave him strong (if nonbinding) assurances that he’d appoint Taft to the SCOTUS as an eventual reward, and that’s the job Taft wanted more than any other. But he and his family quickly came to love the people there, and they did some amazingly brave and enlightened things — at no small personal risk — to help the Philippines shake off some of its most ugly relics from centuries of Spanish imperialism. That was a time when Americans didn’t apologize for being American, though, and didn’t pretend that our values were just one option among many of equal merit.

    (My main criticisms of the Goodwin book are that she clearly didn’t understand the structure of the federal judicial system, or Taft’s role as a “circuit judge” in it before the institution of the modern U.S. Courts of Appeals for the various circuits, which led her into several embarrassing errors that any student of the American legal system ought to have been able to correct; and that she magnificently overestimates the role of muckraking journalists, crediting them with powers of influence and persuasion over the electorate that are wildly, ridiculously disproportionate to their actual effect. She seems to think that progressive writers whose total national circulation measured in the few thousands were swinging many millions of votes, and I don’t think that was remotely possible in that day and age.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  87. Levintv.com

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  88. @ Cruz Supporter #53,

    Rubio isn’t responsible for the behavior of his drug-dealing brother in law, but he’s certainly responsible for his own behavior. If it’s okay to criticize Trump for possibly doing business with mobsters who controlled things he needed, like concrete (and I think that is a legitimate criticism) it’s also okay to look at far deeper relations to the mob, like having a top member in your family.

    Or, more to the point, Rubio is very much responsible for abusing his office to do favors for said BIL. He sent the recommendation letter to the Real Estate board on government stationary, and failing to mention his relation to the applicant. Rubio did that, and thus he’s responsible for it.

    Should a convicted felon be able to get a real estate license? In most states, they can’t, and in Florida, it depends on the crime plus who you know. Normally, due to an agent needing to handle funds for clients, fraud or money laundering type convictions are a disqualifier. Cicillia (the BIL) was convicted of distributing $15 million worth of cocaine, but his money was never found. Obviously, he was money laundering, and that sort of record should disqualify him from being in a position of trust with other people’s money. The fact that Rubio write the letter indicates that without it, Cicilla would have quite rightly been rejected. So too does the state licensing board’s past case record.

    Please bear in mind that when a state licenses someone who acts as a fiduciary, they are certifying them as well. Also, Real Estate agents need to be bonded, and there’s a reason for that.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  89. Interesting stuff there, too, about the Philippines and how long it took for them to learn self-governance.

    I think when P.J. O’Rourke traveled there in the late 1990s the locals told them that the transition from being a Spanish colony to a U.S. protectorate was jokingly referred to as “three centuries in a convent, 99 years in a whorehouse.”

    JVW (34f70e)

  90. Arizona CJ,

    In the state of Florida, a felony offense is simply not a disqualifier for obtaining a real estate license. You have to apply to a state licensing board, and that’s what he did. The board knew he was a felon, yet they still issued him the license. If anything, it’d look fishier if they gave it to him KNOWING he was the brother-in-law of a state senator. The irony is that if Rubio had disclosed, “Hey this is guy is my brother-in-law, can you give authorize him for the license?” that would be interpreted by you guys today as, “HE WAS TRYING TO USE HIS INFLUENCE AS A STATE SENATOR!11!!!” (LOL)

    The world is on fire, the economy stinks, North Korea is threatening us, China is looking to expand its influence in the South China Seas, Justice Scalia’s passing has created an opening on the Supreme Court, and you’re talking about a 1987 conviction for drug trafficking by an in-law of a guy running for President who probably won’t even get the nomination anyhow. When the Titanic is sinking, let’s not worry about polishing the brass or rearranging the deck chairs.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  91. Interesting… Rep. Duncan Hunter (R) seems to have big issues with Sen. Cruz – he mentioned he’s worked with him in the past.

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  92. Obama floats Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval (R) as a potential SCOTUS nominee… gee, that’s not TOO transparently political. What a tool.

    Colonel Haiku (3c8e87)

  93. Cruz today at the press conference in which he received the enthusiastic endorsement of his former boss, the hugely popular Texas Gov. Greg Abbott:

    We can’t get this wrong! We can’t be fooled by P.T. Barnum! The time for the clowns and the acrobats and the dancing bears has passed!”

    I love it. Spot on.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  94. truly, the phillipines was the longest running war, we had before vietnam, and the first real conflict involving islamist, the juramentados, the barbary pirates were neither,

    does on think, one may going ahab on trump, and about as effective,

    narciso (732bc0)

  95. I come from south florida, where there was at least on reporter who dredged every ethical linecrossing the medici did as a developer, with folks as dodgy as marcus, channelling wayne barrett, turned uo

    narciso (732bc0)

  96. probably jealous on the anchorette’s part, he dated carla bruni, the future mrs. sarkozy,

    narciso (732bc0)

  97. Cruz Supporter @ #90;

    The fact remains; Rubio sent that letter urging his convicted felon brother-in-law be granted a license on official stationary, and did not disclose their relationship. And, if you think they’d have granted a convicted drug cartel kingpin a license anyway without the letter, can you name me one time they did? (I’ll save you some searching: you can’t). Minor felony conviction (depending on the felony) yes, sometimes, but something like that? No. Rubio could have not written the letter, but he wrote it, and did so on official legislative stationary, thus speaking as an official (one who had massive influence over the agency’s budget). That’s blatant abuse of power, to help a major coke kingpin. The fact he’s part of the family does not excuse it.

    Can you imagine the fun the media will have with this issue in the fall if Rubio is the nominee? Or his many other links with corruption?

    Also, I go after any candidate when I see reason, regardless of whether I support or detest them. I was pretty loud in my objection to Cruz’s position regarding women registering for the draft, and Cruz is my preferred candidate (then and now). I’ve also defended Rubio regarding the preposterous issue of his “extravagant yacht”, which is a little day cruiser fishing boat (a small, modest boat and very far from a yacht).

    If it makes you feel any better, I’ll note that Cruz, too, has a scandalous and shocking criminal past. He, like Rubio, has been arrested. In Cruz’s case, the facts are clear and damning; he was in possession of a can of beer as a teenager! (cue shock and horror!). :)

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  98. OT.

    Patterico,

    Wonder if you’re going to do a follow up in your anti-Apple article in light of the government demanding assistance in a dozen other phone cases that have nothing to do with terrorism?

    WSJ link.

    njrob (4b72c4)

  99. I’d be amused watching the Republican Democrat party tear itself apart like this if it weren’t so dangerous for the country. :{”

    – aphrael

    I assume that’s what you meant by having 2 devout communists running for president of our nation.

    njrob (4b72c4)

  100. I see AZ CJ is still pushing his Rubio smears. Cute.

    JD (34f761)

  101. “Or his many other links with corruption?”

    Lie

    JD (34f761)

  102. #99 Arizona CJ,

    State legislators and federal legislators write letters on behalf of constituents all the time. For recommendations for this, for that, and for the other. Rubio’s brother-in-law served his debt to society for a non-violent crime.We try to be a nation of second chances. He got a job in sales where he worked himself up to Manager. He proved himself redeemable for several years prior to applying for the real estate license. The state board authorized it. The fact that it was written on ‘state letterhead’ only means it was a letter of recommendation from a state legislator—not that Rubio had used any undue influence. The state board gets those letters of recommendation from state legislators on state letterhead all the time. Again, if he had said, “THIS IS MY BROTHER-IN-LAW,” you would be yelling that it’s proof that he used his position to influence the board.
    The entire point of having a state legislator VOUCH for you is that the legislator is putting his reputation on the line—do you not “get” that aspect of the equation? And that was 2002. He hasn’t run off with someone’s security deposit or mortgage check, has he? Okay. It’s now 2016.

    By the way, Cruz is my first choice. Rubio has always been my second choice. Some of you guys see it all as a college football rivalry where you root for one team, and one team only, and all the other opponents are jerks! I just want to beat Hillary and slow the tide of the Left. When the Titanic is sinking as our country is, and I see people standing around adjusting their bow tie, and talking about rearranging the deck chairs, it elicits me to wonder if they feel the same sense of urgency that I do.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  103. Cruz and Rubio would both jump at the chance to be vp on a Trump ticket. More likely Cruz backs off with promise of replacing Scalia. At least the gop finally gets someone with executive experience. Used to be a big deal irt the Palin gal.

    spokanebob (a3867a)

  104. @ njrob (#100), re (off-topic) Apple, I’m more interested in Bill Gates’ opinion (elipsis & bracked portions by the WaPo):

    In comments to the Financial Times, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates has defied much of Silicon Valley, implying that Apple should provide access to the locked iPhone.

    “Apple has access to the information,” he said. “They’re just refusing to provide the access … You shouldn’t call the access some special thing.”

    Even after Apple chief executive Tim Cook said unlocking the phone was “an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers,” Gates compared the FBI’s request to more pedestrian ones.

    “It is no different than [the question of] should anybody ever have been able to tell the phone company to get information, should anybody be able to get at bank records,” Gates said. “There’s no difference between information.” He offered this analogy: “Let’s say the bank had tied a ribbon round the disk drive and said, ‘Don’t make me cut this ribbon because you’ll make me cut it many times.’”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  105. Beldar – he backed off from giving that the import you are.

    JD (0fb5ae)

  106. If Hillary becomes president, the law means nothing.
    If Sanders becomes president, history means nothing.
    If Trump becomes president, integrity means nothing.

    scrubone (c3104f)

  107. “Or his many other links with corruption?”

    Lie
    JD (34f761) — 2/24/2016 @ 5:22 pm

    JD, congratulations on putting your foot in your mouth.

    Aside from Rubio’s drug kingpin favors problem, what about David Rivera? He’s been the target of several investigations (too long to detail here, just google him). He’s a longtime ally of Rubio, and has also purchased a house with him (as co-owners).

    While majority leader of the Florida House, Rubio had a six figure consulting job at Broad and Cassell, a big lobbying outfit. That was apparently legal under Florida law, but it’s still corruption due to manifest conflict of interest.

    Remember the very valid criticisms of Obama’s connections to Tiny Rezko, including the sweetheart property deal Obama got from him? Here’s one of Rubio’s with verifiable details; in 2003, Rubio bought his first house for $175,000, with zero money down. He put it up for sale in 2005 but had difficulty selling it because of a weak local real estate market. Nora Cereceda bought Rubio’s house in 2007 for $380,000. Rubio unblocked and then flipped on (voted for when he’d previously been opposed) an insurance bill lobbied for by Dr. Mark Cereceda. He’s the buyer’s son. And for added fun, in 2013 he plead guilty to campaign fundraising fraud (3 counts)

    Another name for you: Norm Braman. He’s a top Rubio donner, has been for a long time. He also runs a, ahem, “charity”, that has done pretty much zero charitable work ($260 in 2013). It did, however, pay Rubio’s wife $53,000 for part time work in 2013.

    Are the above links with corruption? They are very clearly links, just as I said.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  108. well the state atty, reno’s protege, won’t pull the trigger on rivera, particularly on this misrepresenting his income for a decade, look don’t bring up rivera, and I’ll leave out fife symington,

    narciso (732bc0)

  109. #104 Cruz Supporter,

    Legislators vouch for people all the time regarding getting a major felon a Florida real estate agent license? If you can name me one such case (I’ll make it easy, any felon), I’ll concede the point. I’ve looked and I can’t find one, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

    I happen to totally agree with you regarding the football analogy of people rooting for one team only. I’ve long said that that is a problem in politics – sort of a “my candidate, right or wrong”.
    As I’ve mentioned, I’ve criticized my preferred candidate more than once. I’ve also defended one I despise.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  110. “don’t bring up rivera, and I’ll leave out fife symington”

    LoL! I’m old enough to remember Symington all too well – his fall was a big embarrassment to Arizona. In my defense, I’ll add that I did not vote for him. And, this being the internet, I won’t admit the reason I didn’t vote for him: I couldn’t, I was too young. :)

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  111. Things I would like to see:

    Ads by middle-class people defrauded by Trump talking about how his shady business dealings wrecked their lives.

    A joint effort by Cruz and Rubio to take him down in debate.

    At some point where he levels some choice and obviously libelous charge, one of them should step out and punch him in the nose.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  112. Patterico,

    Wonder if you’re going to do a follow up in your anti-Apple article in light of the government demanding assistance in a dozen other phone cases that have nothing to do with terrorism?

    No. My position is clear and already stated. Good for them — assuming they have a valid search warrant. I hope they win.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  113. Interesting… Rep. Duncan Hunter (R) seems to have big issues with Sen. Cruz – he mentioned he’s worked with him in the past.

    The guy who endorsed Trump today? Fuck that guy.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  114. The guy who endorsed Trump today? Fuck that guy.

    Yeah, props to Hunter for holding on to his congressional seat in communist California, but apart from that the guy has always struck me as a complete blowhard.

    JVW (9e3c77)

  115. NJRob: from what I can tell, the Democrats aren’t tearing themselves apart. They may do so later on, AND the fight between the bernie bros and the hillary supporters is … tepid by comparison to the fight between the trump supporters and the trump opponents.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  116. This is a song about Bernie the Moocher
    Who was enamored of that Stalin butcher
    Now he’s up against the Clinton frail
    Who’s got a butt as big as a whale

    Hidey-hi, hidey-ho
    Tee-hee-hee
    It’s all for show

    Bernie is a true Socialist. He’s too lazy to work hard at anything. Not even being elected Head Welfare Recipient to replace Obama. He has complained about having to call people for donations to his campaign! Too lazy to beg, that’s how lazy he is. He is going to just step out of Hillary’s way when the time comes.

    nk (dbc370)

  117. @ 118 Cruz Supporter;

    Interesting links, thanks.

    Okay, I’m still against major felons being granted real estate licenses (My state bars any felon from that, and for that matter, holding public office). However, my opinion on that is irrelevant because we’re talking Florida law here.

    I concede that point: I was flat out wrong when I said no other drug kingpins (other than Rubio’s brother in law) had been given Florida Real Estate licenses.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  118. Arizona CJ – I’m really of two minds about that; at some point, if it isn’t possible for paroled felons to get jobs, then their options for avoiding a future life of crime become very … constricted.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  119. @ aphrael,

    I agree regarding them being able to get most jobs. However, we’re talking licensed positions of public trust here. I certainly wouldn’t want a convicted child molester working in a school, nor do I like the idea of entrusting a convicted major felon with both money and access; real estate agents, as part of their job, do have access (via MLS lockboxes or similar)to people’s houses – any house that’s for sale and on lockbox. For that reason, I’d certainly be opposed to allowing sex offenders or people with criminal fraud/embezzlement convictions be real estate agents.

    Likewise, drug kingpins. I wouldn’t like the idea, if I had vacant property, of convicted drug cartel members having access. It’d be too easy for them to use it for a drug drop, or set up a temporary meth lab. (the latter can destroy the saleability of a property due to toxic chemical residue).

    I’m also opposed to felons holding elected office. (filed under Clinton, Hilary). :)

    Arizona CJ (da673d)


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