Patterico's Pontifications

11/7/2013

What Obama Actually Said — Every Single Instance, Collected

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:51 pm

Obama has claimed that he never said if you like your plan/doctor, you can keep it. “[W]hat we said was, you can keep (your plan) if it hasn’t changed since the law passed.”

That is a flat lie. Everybody knows it’s a lie. But PolitiFact, in calling it a “pants on fire” lie, has collected the statements that Obama actually made, here. I have decided to quote them all, so that if PolitiFact disappears the collection of evidence, it will remain here.

Obama’s comments before the law passed

• White House Web page: “Linda Douglass of the White House Office of Health Reform debunks the myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them. ” (Spanish-language version.)

• White House Web page: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”

• President’s weekly address, June 6, 2009: “If you like the plan you have, you can keep it. If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too. The only change you’ll see are falling costs as our reforms take hold.”

• Town hall in Green Bay, Wis., June 11, 2009: “No matter how we reform health care, I intend to keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you’ll be able to keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan.”

• Remarks at the American Medical Association, June 15, 2009: “I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage — they like their plan and, most importantly, they value their relationship with their doctor. They trust you. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

• Presidential press conference, June 23, 2009. “If you like your plan and you like your doctor, you won’t have to do a thing. You keep your plan. You keep your doctor.”

• Rose Garden remarks, July 15, 2009. “If you like your doctor or health care provider, you can keep them. If you like your health care plan, you can keep that too.”

• Remarks at a rally for New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine, July 16, 2009: “if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctor, you like your plan — you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”

• Presidential weekly address, July 18, 2009: “Michelle and I don’t want anyone telling us who our family’s doctor should be – and no one should decide that for you either. Under our proposals, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. If you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance. Period, end of story.”

• Rose Garden remarks, July 21, 2009: “If you like your current plan, you will be able to keep it. Let me repeat that: If you like your plan, you’ll be able to keep it.”

• Remarks in Shaker Heights, Ohio, July 23, 2009: “Reform will keep the government out of your health care decisions, giving you the option to keep your coverage if you’re happy with it.”

• Town hall in Raleigh, N.C., July 29, 2009: “I have been as clear as I can be. Under the reform I’ve proposed, if you like your doctor, you keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. These folks need to stop scaring everybody. Nobody is talking about you forcing … to change your plans.”

• Presidential weekly address, Aug. 8, 2009: “Under the reforms we seek, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”

• Town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009: “Under the reform we’re proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”

• Town hall in Belgrade, Mont., Aug. 14, 2009: “If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. This is not some government takeover. If you like your doctor, you can keep seeing your doctor. This is important.”

• Presidential weekly address, Aug. 15, 2009: “No matter what you’ve heard, if you like your doctor or health care plan, you can keep it.”

• Town hall in Grand Junction, Colo., Aug. 15, 2009: “I just want to be completely clear about this. I keep on saying this but somehow folks aren’t listening — if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health care plan. If you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor.”

• Remarks to Organizing for America, Aug. 20, 2009: “No matter what you’ve heard, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor under the reform proposals that we’ve put forward. If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep it.”

• Presidential weekly address, Aug. 22, 2009: “Under the reform we seek, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period.”

• Remarks on health care reform, March 3, 2010: “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Because I can tell you that as the father of two young girls, I wouldn’t want any plan that interferes with the relationship between a family and their doctor.”

• Presidential weekly address, March 6, 2010: “What won’t change when this bill is signed is this: If you like the insurance plan you have now, you can keep it. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Because nothing should get in the way of the relationship between a family and their doctor.”

• Remarks in Glenside, Pa., March 8, 2010: “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

• Remarks in St. Charles, Mo., March 10, 2010: ” If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

• Remarks in St. Louis, Mo., March 10, 2010: “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. I’m the father of two young girls –- I don’t want anybody interfering between my family and their doctor.”

• Remarks in Strongsville, Ohio, March 15, 2010: “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. I don’t want to interfere with people’s relationships between them and their doctors.”

• Remarks in Fairfax, Va., March 19, 2010: “If you like your doctor, you’re going to be able to keep your doctor. If you like your plan, keep your plan. I don’t believe we should give government or the insurance companies more control over health care in America. I think it’s time to give you, the American people, more control over your health.”

Obama’s comments between the law’s signing and the release of the HHS regulations

• White House web page: “For those Americans who already have health insurance, the only changes you will see under the law are new benefits, better protections from insurance company abuses, and more value for every dollar you spend on health care. If you like your plan you can keep it and you don’t have to change a thing due to the health care law.”

• Remarks in Iowa City, Iowa, March 25, 2010: “You like your plan? You’ll be keeping your plan. No one is taking that away from you.”

• Remarks in Portland, Maine, April 1, 2010: The critics will “see that if Americans like their doctor, they will keep their doctor. And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you. It hasn’t happened yet. It won’t happen in the future.”

• White House blog post by Stephanie Cutter, May 18, 2010: “A key point to remember is that while the Act makes many changes to the individual market, it specifically allows those who want to keep their current insurance to do so. Most of the Act’s protections apply only to new policies, allowing people to stick with their current plan if they prefer.”

After the release of the HHS regulations

• Kathleen Sebelius blog post, June 14, 2010: “The bottom line is that under the Affordable Care Act, if you like your doctor and plan, you can keep them.”

• White House blog post by Stephanie Cutter. “Another important step we’ve taken is to fulfill President Obama’s promise that ‘if you like your health plan, you can keep it.’ Last week, Secretary Sebelius and Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis announced a new rule that protects the ability of individuals and businesses to keep their current plan. It outlines conditions under which current plans can be ‘grandfathered’ into the system, minimizing market disruption and putting us all on the path toward the competitive, patient-centered market of the future.”

• Remarks on the Affordable Care Act Supreme Court ruling, June 28, 2012: “If you’re one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance — this law will only make it more secure and more affordable.”

• Campaign event in Pittsburgh, July 6, 2012: “If you have health insurance, the only thing that changes for you is you’re more secure because insurance companies can’t drop you when you get sick.”

• Campaign event in Virginia Beach, Va., July 13, 2012: “If you already have health care, the only thing this bill does is make sure that it’s even more secure and insurance companies can’t jerk you around.”

• First presidential debate in Denver, Oct. 3, 2012: “If you’ve got health insurance, it doesn’t mean a government takeover. You keep your own insurance. You keep your own doctor. But it does say insurance companies can’t jerk you around.”

• Remarks in Largo, Md., Sept. 26, 2013: “Now, let’s start with the fact that even before the Affordable Care Act fully takes effect, about 85 percent of Americans already have health insurance — either through their job, or through Medicare, or through the individual market. So if you’re one of these folks, it’s reasonable that you might worry whether health care reform is going to create changes that are a problem for you — especially when you’re bombarded with all sorts of fear-mongering. So the first thing you need to know is this: If you already have health care, you don’t have to do anything.”

He lied and lied and lied and lied and lied.

And then lied some more.

And he’s still lying, about the previous lies.

But remember: Bush was the big liar because he, like everyone else on Earth, thought Saddam Hussein had WMD.

104 Responses to “What Obama Actually Said — Every Single Instance, Collected”

  1. he should be impeached

    filthy lying whore

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  2. while we’re counting up lies here’s anudder one for you

    I, John Roberts, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  3. Obama lies? And the earth moves around on its axis each day. Both are natural phenomena.

    Comanche Voter (caea51)

  4. Yellowcake!!1!!11!!!

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  5. he should be impeached

    But not convicted. Left in office badly wounded with festering sores, with a Democrat Senate that defended the indefensible.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  6. I want to speak plainly, clearly, honestly, about what it means for you and for the people you care about.

    Now, let’s start with the fact that even before the Affordable Care Act fully takes effect, about 85 percent of Americans already have health insurance -– either through their job, or through Medicare, or through the individual market. So if you’re one of these folks, it’s reasonable that you might worry whether health care reform is going to create changes that are a problem for you — especially when you’re bombarded with all sorts of fear-mongering.

    So the first thing you need to know is this: If you already have health care, you don’t have to do anything. In fact, for the past few years, since I signed the Affordable Care Act, a lot of you have been enjoying new benefits and protections that you didn’t before even if you didn’t know they were coming from Obamacare.

    President Obama, September 26, 2013

    Via HotAir

    aunursa (7014a8)

  7. But not convicted! Joe Biden! FIFY, Kevin.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. Looking at the list, Obama obviously misspoke his butt off.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. I wonder what brand of adult diapers he was wearing during the “interview” with Chuck Todd. Do you think it materially affected the crease in his pants?

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/07/obama-id-like-to-apologize-for-lying-to-your-faces-several-thousand-times-about-keeping-your-plan-if-you-liked-it/

    elissa (d0035d)

  10. I guess they decided not to declare those statements “no longer operative.”

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  11. Looking at the list, Obama obviously misspoke his butt off.

    Damn teleprompter!

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  12. aunursa,

    A truncated version of the quote you cited, with the essential parts quoted, is contained in this post, near the end.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  13. And a new term is born …

    The KABAL running the Obamacare Scam – from “Kathleen And Barack All Lying” …

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  14. So, what else has he been lying about? Besides everything.

    navyvet (02dd07)

  15. The left in general tends to play fast and loose with the truth, due in part to it perceiving dishonesty as somehow less of a flaw when it’s in the interest of preserving and upholding one’s self-esteem and do-gooderism. IOW, if being a lying sleazeball at least rests upon a heart of gold, than, hell, lie your ass off. That’s why there’s really no conservative counterpart to a Bill Clinton or, of course, Barry Obama. Or in terms of large groups of people, a right-leaning counterpart to a city like Detroit or a country like Venezuela.

    Mark (58ea35)

  16. Obamacare. Just another shovel ready project that wasn’t. It sure seems like we’ve spent an awful lot of money on shovel ready jobs that weren’t, and on “investments” that didn’t pan out. Of course since the sole purpose of the projects was paying off cronies and lining the pockets of campaign bundlers then it’s actually been a pretty successful administration.

    elissa (d0035d)

  17. He not only lied, he called into question the entire lefty philosophy that government has all the answers.

    Sure, the GOP may be in disarray, but how do Dems recover from the simple fact that they can not deliver what they have promised?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  18. In the other post access shock was noted.
    Some people like their Doctor. A lot.
    Most women want to see the same OB/GYN. #waronwomen
    I think every conservative woman who can no longer see their previous OB/GYN should raise holy hell

    steveg (794291)

  19. We are just at the phase where “if you like your plan you can keep it” is being proven to be a brazen lie, millions of times over. When people start actually getting plans, they will find decreased access to doctors and hospitals. And then, it will happen all over again, once the same nonsense hits the employer markets.

    JD (1d1ef1)

  20. Anyone who didn’t know it was a lie is an idiot.

    AZ Bob (ade845)

  21. When does the rationing of teh toilet paper begin? el Presidente Chauncey Blameshifter… sheeiiittt!

    Colonel Haiku (9b8fed)

  22. Damn that Sears, Colonel! We coulda used their catalog pages like folks did during the depression. We are so screwed.

    elissa (d0035d)

  23. “Teh b*tch website set me up…”

    - el Presidente Chauncey Blameshifter

    Colonel Haiku (9b8fed)

  24. I’ve been wondering–how’s the left blogosphere taking the president’s “apology”? Are they mad at him for showing weakness or do they think he’s heroic and dreamy? Has anybody checked around?

    elissa (d0035d)

  25. They’re rationing their swooning, elissa.

    Colonel Haiku (9b8fed)

  26. how’s the left blogosphere taking the president’s “apology”?

    top comment at National Soros Radio

    Is it just me or is it strange to finally have a President who can admit to mistakes?

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/11/07/243815644/obama-apologizes-to-those-who-lost-health-plans

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  27. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. Safer to try to take the tiger cub from its mother, than the illusion from an Obamabot. Easier, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  28. NBC’s Chuck Fraud all but held his hand as he felt Chauncey’s pain… teh unequaled magnificence and sincerity of el Presidente. Truly breathtaking in his love for teh little-soon-to-be-sick people.

    Colonel Haiku (ee85e3)

  29. Sure, the GOP may be in disarray, but how do Dems recover from the simple fact that they can not deliver what they have promised?

    they’ll blame Bush, of course…

    like, Duh.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  30. Romney spoke about 47% of Americans that are in NEED of the Govt for their survival. He was correct. Democrats want ALL AMERICANS to be in NEED of govt. to survive. That is not sustainable. Romney was correct, and Jimmy Carter’s grandson spread the recording of Romney’s private conversation. WE ALL COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND that OBAMA is a focking Communist, Narcissist, and a Liar. Those who beg the gubmint for their CHEESE, do not care.

    Gus (70b624)

  31. BTW: collecting all these quotes, as well as posting them, is racist.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  32. Redcic4. Calling yourself “red” is racist.

    Gus (70b624)

  33. Obama’s entire life, is a LIE.

    Gus (70b624)

  34. As a former ag student (now having my bachelors degree), “shovel ready” always seemed to me like it should mean “tons of dung here that needs to be removed.”
    Which is a perfectly accurate description of Obamacare/the ACA.

    @26: let’s see, was that “I take responsibility for everything in my speeches”?
    Not that they would have listened.

    @32: how about “sixteenth-breed”? (yes, I am…)

    Ibidem (f89abc)

  35. Yes Ibidem. If you are suggesting that Obama is a complete and utter CLOWN? Then you are correct.

    Gus (70b624)

  36. If you want less of something assign a Marxist to provide it. Look at Venezuela, an oil producing country. The oil production has gone down, and they can’t even supply toilet paper.

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  37. Ma, Ma, where’s my Pa.
    Gone to the White House, to Lie, Lie, Lie.

    (yeah, it doesn’t rhyme, so sue me)

    askeptic (2bb434)

  38. RE: 26, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the same folks who believed the endless lies also actually saw that as an actual apology.

    I just hear a whole lot of ‘gee its unfortunate that we fell a bit short of [doubling down on all the what-we-intended-and-i-take-o-so-seriously-to-do]‘, with one little ‘gee i regret people are in this position, while I was assuring otherwise’.

    Not a bit of understanding that the regulations they wrote prevented or should I say actively blocked grandfathering, making it a lie. Like it was some sort of oversight not active, direct, causation. Might as well have kept vilifying those sneaky fat cat insurers, you see Chuckles, well-meaning peeps like us just can’t guess all the ways they’ll twist our intentions…but regardless, a lot of you folks will still come out smelling roses, just you wait.

    Sickening. Smarmy. Still self-justifying. Most definitely NOT an apology. They were never ‘wrong’ they jusy ‘fell short’. While he continues ‘every day’ his laser-like focus on what matters, just like OJ hunting golf courses for the real killer before he done went and got himself caught doin something else stupid.

    rtrski (02e95b)

  39. These things will remain true, pre and post Obamacare:

    1) Obama knows that the MSM will have his back. No matter what. There will be sniping which is their was to trying to make it look as if they are independent and honest, but in the end, they will protect their investment in Obama.

    2) Those who produce popular culture will also have his back. Academics too. There will be no strong opposition to Obama from any of the traditional D strong holds while he is in office.

    3) 67 million people voted for Obama in the last election, despite the fact that millions will lose their insurance, etc, that number and more will vote for the D presidential candidate in 2016.

    4) Obama will not be held responsible for Obamacare. He will lay blame on “big insurance.” This has worked in the past and it will work again.

    Ipso Fatso (10964d)

  40. re: 12 (which was in reply to 6), I think aunursa’s full quote is very revealing, because it directly invalidates the attempted “if it hasn’t changed” walkback, or his spinmeister’s attempts to carve out the individual market as a tiny percentage never intended to be part of those quotes.

    He was unequivocal when it mattered to get it passed. And unequivocally dishonest, or so totally devoid of awareness and logic that it amounts to an equal invalidation of his fitness for the office.

    rtrski (02e95b)

  41. Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 11/7/2013 @ 7:11 pm

    Hadn’t thought of it that way, before. if the one’s popularity falls low enough with enough popular knowledge not only of the debacle of ObamaCare but the one’s lies and lying about lies,
    an impeachment and acquittal by the Dem senate only implicates the whole Dem party in the malfeasance.
    With an educated public and a just world it would be so, not sure about in the world we have, though.

    But it’s an interesting thought.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  42. I want to speak plainly, clearly, honestly, about what it means for you and for the people you care about.

    Umm, what was that again?
    He said that he is not a crook…
    and to read his lips…
    and that he didn’t lie to that woman, or the rest of us either.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  43. I want to speak plainly, clearly, honestly, about what it means for you and for the people you care about.

    Let me be clear ….
    I have always said ….
    It has always been my position…

    JD (1d1ef1)

  44. I want to speak plainly, clearly, honestly, about what it means for you and for the people you care about.

    A man’s reach should exceed his grasp ….
    or
    Well, why don’t you, then?
    or
    Keep trying, Mr. President, someday you may succeed.
    or
    Do it, you only live once.
    or
    It’s Axelrod, isn’t it? He won’t let you.

    nk (dbc370)

  45. PolitiFact has linked every one of their 37 citations to the original video or web page.

    There are actually 38, because for the first one, from the white House web page, they also linked the Spanish language version.

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)

  46. I still think people have not realized that this is much bigger than the “lie” issue or the website. We will see the entire US healthcare system melt down over the next year. Complex structures don’t tolerate the removal of a major piece of the structure. The US health insurance system was jury-rigged anyway as a result of World War II. As medical care got more complex, and expensive, the system was allowed to add bits and pieces to the structure, such as it was. What we have now, and not for long, is a complicated set of internal cross subsidies to pay for ordinary expenses.

    To make things worse, we have added a sort of prepaid system to the insurance model. The GOP tried in the 80s to substitute HMOs and PPOs to control costs but the unions, among others, resisted any cost control. Doctors, and I was one, also resisted but we were controlled by the contracting laws, passed in California for example. The medical associations succeeded in defeating the author of the contracting law but it was too late.

    The result is that the structure is a house of cards. Obama just pulled out a big card from the bottom. They had no idea what they were doing because that is not in the job description of community organizers, or politicians.

    Single payer won’t work because the incentives are wrong. Obamacare was an attempt to plaster a single payer-like system on top.

    We will get a chance to build a new health providing system from scratch. For France to have such a chance, they had to lose a war.

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  47. Obama is not always lying. Sometimes, he just doesn’t know what he is talking about.

    September 26, 2013 – September 26, 2013! :

    So the first thing you need to know is this: If you already have health care, you don’t have to do anything.

    Twitchy September 21, 2013:

    http://twitchy.com/2013/09/21/health-insurers-to-customers-if-you-like-your-plan-you-can-keep-nah-youre-screwed/

    Twitchy, September 22, 2013:

    http://twitchy.com/2013/09/22/hey-know-what-you-get-to-keep-with-obamacare-cancellation-notices/

    Michelle Malkin had already written about it.

    Michelle Malkins column, September 25, 2013:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2013/09/25/obama-lied-my-health-plan-died/

    It had already started!

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)

  48. “Sometimes, he just doesn’t know what he is talking about.”

    Although even there he knows he is going beyond what he knows, and is taking a leap of faith. He falls most on his face when he does something like that – carries an argument just one step further.

    And it might even be that he knows better, but thinks what he says is right for such a high percentage of people that the few people it isn’t true for won’t matter, and it’ll never catch up with him.

    Only what he says sometimes isn’t only just a little bit wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)

  49. Comment by MikeK (dc6ffe) — 11/8/2013 @ 7:46 am
    many fine points, a few comments of agreement.

    What we have now, and not for long, is a complicated set of internal cross subsidies to pay for ordinary expenses.
    So true, and much better said than I’ve done in years of trying.

    The GOP tried in the 80s to substitute HMOs and PPOs to control costs but the unions, among others, resisted any cost control.
    I thought HMO’s were a Ted Kennedy thing.?

    Single payer won’t work because the incentives are wrong.
    And why would that prevent the Leftists from trying it anyway?

    We get a chance to build a new health providing system from scratch. For France to have such a chance, they had to lose a war.
    If electing the one in 2008 wasn’t the equivalent to losing a war, electing him again in 2012 was close to it.

    Most countries also do not go through “fundamental transformation” without war or (un)civil war/revolution either.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  50. Sammy – Would you buy a used car from President Consistently Said Blameshifter?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  51. 49 “Most countries also do not go through “fundamental transformation” without war or (un)civil war/revolution either.”

    ^This.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  52. The GOP tried in the 80s to substitute HMOs and PPOs to control costs but the unions, among others, resisted any cost control.
    I thought HMO’s were a Ted Kennedy thing.?

    Ted Kennedy was always about single payer.

    Paul Ellwood originated the term although Sidney Garfield built the first one for Henry Kaiser when they were building Boulder Dam in the desert far from cities. That became Kaiser Health Foundation.

    Ellwood later became disillusioned with them especially after the “for profit” model became common in the 90s.

    Sadly, HMOs did not become what Ellwood and associates originally intended. Regrettably, for the public, the well-intended HMO model became a “cash cow” for overly greedy business interests whose primary goal has been to suck billions of dollars out of the health care system in order to fill their corporate pockets. The HMO practice of withholding and/or denying care thus became the stuff of legend.

    “Every good cause eventually becomes a racket.”

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  53. ==Single payer won’t work because the incentives are wrong. (MikeK)
    And why would that prevent the Leftists from trying it anyway? ( MD in Philly)==

    It probably won’t stop the most fervent from trying. But this recent Pew poll gives another inkling why single payer will be a very very hard sell to the American public immediately after the catastrophe that is Obamacare. Trust.

    A mid-October Pew Research national poll found that a plurality regard the Republicans as “better able to deal with the economy” than the Democrats (44%-37%). Independents favored the GOP on the economy by a whopping 46%-30% margin in that survey.The Republicans took most of the blame for the shutdown, yet a growing number see the GOP as “better able to manage the government.” In December 2012, the Democratic Party held a 45%-36% advantage over the GOP as the party Americans viewed as better able to manage the government. By Oct. 15—in the midst of the shutdown and debt crisis—the Democratic lead on this measure disappeared: 42% said the Republican Party is better able to manage the federal government, compared with 39% who named the Democrats.

    This was mid October. Obamacare and the Dems are in much worse shape now in the first week of Nov. and the nation is more clued in to the incompoetence. It’ll be interesting to see the next Pew poll results on these topics.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303763804579181512436325236

    elissa (d0035d)

  54. Let’s go a little further back, to see what then-candidate Obama’s own campaign literature said about his healthcare plan. I have Obama’s 2008 webpage content and all of his policy PDF’s on my computer. I thought it would make for interesting reading in the future, as the rhetoric spilling off of his gilded tongue inevitably clashed with reality. But, even I couldn’t have foreseen the hellacious depths plumbed by Obama’s odious neo-communist beliefs, nor the abject destructiveness of his insidious agenda.

    The following quotes are taken verbatim from the Obama 2008 campaign material which I have on an external hard drive, and which I downloaded in 2008, to have a record of Obama’s promises:

    ———————–
    From the Obama for President 2008 website:

    Barack Obama and Joe Biden’s Plan

    Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year. If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.
    ————————-

    From the Obama ’08 Healthcare FAQ PDF:

    BACKGROUND QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ON HEALTH CARE PLAN
    Q. I like my current insurance coverage. Will I have to change plans?
    A. No, you will not have to change plans. For those who have insurance now, nothing will change under the Obama plan – except that you will pay less. Obama’s plan will save a typical family up to $2,500 on premiums by bringing the health care system into the 21st century: cutting waste, improving technology, expanding coverage to all Americans, and paying for some high-cost cases.

    Q. I don’t want the government telling me which doctors to see or what treatments
    to get. Will the Obama plan force these kinds of decisions on me?
    A. Senator Obama agrees with you. His plan will not tell you which doctors to see or what treatments to get. Under the Obama health care plan, you will be able to keep your doctor and your health insurance if you want. No government bureaucrat will secondguess decisions about your care.

    ——————————

    From the Obama-Biden 2008 Healthcare Plan PDF:

    The Obama-Biden plan both builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and leaves Medicare intact for older and disabled Americans. Under the Obama-Biden plan, Americans will be able to maintain their current coverage, have access to new affordable options, and see the quality of their health care improve and their costs go down.
    —————————-

    Let Mugabe-bama’s own unambiguous, utterly explicit promises and words, made when he was seeking the presidency, and, later, as President, and his transparent breaking of those promises, speak for themselves…

    Guy Jones (2a6c7a)

  55. 50. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/8/2013 @ 8:12 am

    Sammy – Would you buy a used car from President Consistently Said Blameshifter?

    Only if an independent mechanic inspects it, and I’d rely only what the mechanic said, not what he said, although I might use his claims as a starting point.

    I don’t think I’d buy it at all from the Clintons. They’d

    You know Bill Clinton’s first job, just aboiut, was selling used cars at the busine

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)

  56. The Clintons would try to secretly control the independent mechanic.

    Bill Clinton sold used cars at his step-uncle’s Buick dealership. That was pretty much his first job.

    His step-uncle, Raymond Clinton, was part of the political machine that ran Hot Springs, Arkansas, when he was growing up (they were back in power after about 1952 or so)

    This political machine was run by “retired” (since about 1935) gangster Owen Vincent “Owney the Killer” Madden, who was, according to Jimmy Breslin in his biography of Damon Runyan, published in 1991, the founder of organized crime in America.

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)

  57. The people so very responsible for this debacle are the ones that voted for Obama, the African Americans, white women, young “liberal” people, Hispanics, illegals, believing the oncoming ACA was something other than what it is. If you didn’t learn your lesson after voting Obama in after the first election you deserve what you are getting and should rest easy knowing you forced this on those of us that learned the first time around not to vote for the “free stuff”. Nothing is free, it is taken from some and given to others with laws and regulations. I find it astonishing the insurance companies are backing out of the very “Act” they as an industry worked to promote seeing $$, same with the unions that are crying loudly they want special handouts now they voted their man in. The African Americans, White women, young “liberals”, and Hispanics will be looking like the unions doing the deer in the headlights look when they realize after their first medical bills come in with the HUGE deductibles due and payable before the ACA pays. Good luck to you all that voted for this by way of your Obama vote on coming up with the deductibles or even just the co-pays for some of you that will be hollering “it was supposed to be free!”. The joke is on you and you forced it on the rest of us that know nothing is free. When emotions run amok there is no room for intelligence and emotions ran amok.

    akadarpoe (63b2fa)

  58. Gross generalizations much akadarpoe?

    elissa (d0035d)

  59. There are reports (NewsMax) that Cruz and Paul are calling on Obama to fire Sibelius.
    All that will do is to wipe the lipstick off of the pig, but the pig still remains a pig.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  60. Lynn Sweet is the Washington Bureau Chief for the Chicago Sun-Times. I consider her as an Obama supporter, based on the things she’s written in the past. This is an excerpt from an article Lynn Sweet wrote today regarding Obama’s “I’m sorry” interview with NBC’s Chuck Todd where Obama responded to Todd’s questions about people losing their health insurance:

    A remarkable feature of Todd’s interview with Obama — whose hair is noticeably grayer — is the president’s inability to sincerely express empathy. I know he tried, but is that the best he’s got? Given that people are freaking out when they get a notice their policies are being dropped — a horrible, frustrating life experience.
    ***
    What the administration never appreciated was that people get new plans all the time — but they hardly noticed because it seemed more like an automatic renewal, albeit often with higher costs. A cancellation letter gets your attention.

    The Obama team has been relying on legalistic technicalities in keeping the misleading language in his remarks.

    Obama kept using that 5 percent figure in his interview with Todd in an attempt to put the situation in perspective. But if you are one of the 5 percent and are angry and feel duped — I don’t blame you. You are entitled to your story.

    One remarkable thing about Obama is that we all — Democrats and Republicans — spend a lot of time trying to figure out what Obama means or what he really wants. The public should have a clear understanding of a President’s goals, policies, and positions after 5 years in office. Obama reportedly said that there are times even he believes his own bullshit. Unfortunately, there are times most Americans believe it, too.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  61. This web site needs a thumbs up function for happyfeet’s second comment.

    Phillep Harding (0ae744)

  62. Letting people buy into Medicare = public option may be the only quick way to help people who are losing their insurance.

    Medicare has a much more open network of doctors than almost anything being sold on the exchanges.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  63. 54. Comment by Guy Jones (2a6c7a) — 11/8/2013 @ 9:33 am

    So Obama’s campaign said he would save people who NOW HAVE INSURANCE about $2,500 a year by “cutting waste, improving technology, expanding coverage to all Americans [which should RAISE insurance costs!] and paying for some high-cost cases” all without any bureaucrat second guessing decisions about medical care.

    And without relying on incentives either I assume.

    So how is the waste to be cut?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  64. “improving technology and expanding coverage”

    The assumption there, I think, is that if doctors had easy access to previous medical tests, they would have fewer tests taken because results would always be available, and if there were better (= electronic) medical records there would be fewer medical mistakes.

    And if more people had coverage they would see less of doctors because chronic diseases would be prevented, and they would not have to use “expensive” emergency rooms (which are actually the cheapest form of medical care) instead of getting the kind of care which would keep them out of an emergency room.

    A big lie really. Who were the lobbyists who thought that up?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  65. Unicorn farts, Sammy. They are magical.

    SPQR (768505)

  66. How can you tell when Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro is lying? Whenever his lips are moving

    Ken (b2bd8e)

  67. I’m not at all prone to believe the worst of people:

    http://bobagard.blogspot.com/2013/11/someone-who-knew-barry-soetoro-in-hawaii.html?m=1

    And in his case you can’t believe a word he says.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  68. Obama seems to be the most popular, polished, pontificator in the past recent history.

    G. A. Anderson (6017ae)

  69. 68. “68.Obama seems to be the most popular, polished, pontificator in the past recent historyin the near future to hang on a meathook.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  70. Your irrational hatred of Obama renders your constant braying about his alleged lies, etc. completely laughable and meaningless.

    But of course the point is not to convince anyone that you have a case, it is to ensure that your fellow haters remain firmly in the sphere of self-delusion and stupidity.

    Nature is very unkind to creatures who are like you and I for one am very much enjoying witnessing your self-extinction.

    Coriolis (2a3e18)

  71. I hate you, coriolis.

    mg (31009b)

  72. The simple fact that completely refutes your entire rant:

    Obama cannot control what private insurers choose to do with their policies.

    If there’s anything to criticize him for, and I have, it is the fact that he remains ignorant of the degree to which people and businesses will purposefully undermine business models or even self-interest to exercise their warped and disproven ideology.

    Republicans have, for demonstrable example, continued to inflict pain and damage to the US economy out of desperate fear that a Liberal policy might actually work.

    While at the same time laughably claiming that the government is the problem. Of course this is true, if modified: A REPUBLICAN government is the problem.

    Coriolis (2a3e18)

  73. Of course you do, mg. Haters hate.

    Coriolis (2a3e18)

  74. You bet I do. When a group of politicians can twist ones thoughts, like yours, and ruin the way I made a living for 40 years, yes sir hate is what it is. Just remember coriolis-Payback is a mfer.
    bout time you get off your sister, wouldn’t you say.

    mg (31009b)

  75. Serial obsessive trolls are so cute.

    JD (5c1832)

  76. If there’s anything to criticize him for, and I have, it is the fact that he remains ignorant of the degree to which people and businesses [and elected officials and government bureaucracies] will purposefully undermine business models or even self-interest to exercise their warped and disproven ideology.Comment by Coriolis (2a3e18) — 11/11/2013 @ 1:52 am

    FTFY
    my goodness, textbook illustration for “projection”

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  77. Another troll, same talking points. Clown cloning techniques improving?

    Colonel Haiku (b924f9)

  78. James Carville is now advising teh Big Zero to hit the crack pipe, it’s his only hope.

    Colonel Haiku (b924f9)

  79. This is why I had some schadenfreude, when he squealed during the Gulf Spill, he enabled it;

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/189813-carville-stop-pulling-the-nails-in-the-coffin-for-obama

    narciso (3fec35)

  80. President Chauncey Madoff…

    Colonel Haiku (0dcd9c)

  81. narciso-
    I don’t know whether to thank you for the NYT link or not…

    As it has been said, the problem is that so much of what some people “know” is not true, like ObamaCare is going to get more people insured, so tough to you (while the “stop-your-whining” people have not [yet] been personally effected).

    And the other problem is the willingness to make excuses if they think the end justifies the means- who cares if Obama actually did lie, because he knew he couldn’t get what he wanted any other way.
    How many liberal teacher-union members think it is a good idea for their students to cheat and plagiarize? On what basis do they have that standard? I guess they can penalize them if they get caught, as deceit is only ok if it helps get what you want.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  82. Well there is some dawning as the ‘Cave wall’ breaks down,

    narciso (3fec35)

  83. President Clinton redefined what sex is, President Obama redefines what “truth” is.
    This is a problem.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  84. Knowing that dems will pay people to show up at demonstrations and such, do you think some people get paid to do dem talking points on blogs and social media? And if so, how many?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  85. It’s fine to do it, but it would be nice for them to honest about it.
    Be what about it??? (Collapsing in laughter…)

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  86. “…I for one am very much enjoying witnessing your self-extinction.”

    If this isn’t an example of hate, what is? Eventually, life will catch up with you(it always does), and you’ll learn a lesson about wishing misfortune on others.

    I can’t speak for anyone here, but as I’ve written to others like yourself that creating bureaucracies is fraught with unintended consequences. Bureaucracies become increasingly difficult to manage(oversight), and are susceptible to abuse and corruption.

    Please continue your blameshifting and name-calling, as it reinforces my decision to part ways with my former liberal beliefs.

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  87. self importance… check
    narcissistic bent… check
    thinks him/herself heroic… check
    hateehatehate H8ter… check

    latest troll meets spotcheck criteria…

    Colonel Haiku (c27e3f)

  88. can’t we be friends, clitoris?

    Colonel Haiku (58bb61)

  89. 78. I see here: (frst comments)

    1. It isn’t including maternity care (but she didn’t say that) that is increasing the premiums – it’s cooverage of pre-existing conditions.

    2. Deductibles are going up, (not just because of the new law – this is a big trend) and so high, that doctor are finding that sometimes they don’t get paid at all.

    3. Only 25% of the uninusred actually want insurance.

    4. Roughly in the same boat – will cost 85% more to keep the same doctor.

    5. Your insurance was really a bad bargain. (could actually be true, high level catastrophic might be better) Everyone must be covered for insurance to work, and maybe you have alow renough income to get a subsidy.

    6. Policy was cancelled but new policy from the exchange costs half as much without any subsidy and has much better benefits. He wsas thrilled to have his nsurance cancelled and replaced with something much better. He’s from New York. (Explanation: New York’s minimum coverage was much more than the federal minimum which is replacing it. Commentator does not seem to be aware that the only gainers are New Yorkers, or that individual insurance in New York had long ago entered into the death spiral)

    7. Key is will this help the unfortunate. Will they go to the doctor, afford the co-pays etc and if not ewho will pay them (nobody! Prices are not costs. Commentator does not seem to realize medical prices are much too high.) This hits only a few people but all thosew increased premiums will come trickling down into employer subsidized plan.

    8. Had corprorate insurance her entire life then went kicking and screaming into high deductibe plan. Now she’s glad. She asks her doctor more questions before she blindly fills a prescription and goes for an MRI. We need to participate more and think about costs. We need prices posted and dsiscussed before all non-emergency treatment (insurance insulates people from that, and so do co-pays if they are flat)

    9. Author doesn’t say whether she checked the California exchange. Why isn’t there anything about what she could get on the exchange in the article?

    10. Prior to Obamacare a self-employed person couldn’t get insurance tghat would actually pay fro medical care. Now he can. If you don’t have increasded costs I won’t hae cooverage and insurance inductry profits are protected. Single payer would be better. No insurance companies can gamne the system.

    11. It wasn’t necessary to force people to have insurance. Just expand existing programs which alread pay 3/4 of what uninuisred people didn’t pay out of pocket. Peole being forcd to buy insurance will be no better off. Even if it is free because of sdubsidies they’ll be stucvk with co-pays. This is ego strlking and pretend humanitarianism.

    12. Wroter (who mentioned $5,400 increase was before taxes) doesn’t seem to be aware of federal income tax adjustment for self-employed for health insurance premiums. If she didn’t research that, how confident can you be she reseached health insuirance options (Well, she did seem to mention if she married her boyfriend the problem would be solved)

    13. The House doubled costs because they didn’t want to go for single payer. The government manages Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA system.

    14. She thinks she’s in the middle class but she’s not, and, as a psychotherapists, she has been beneficiary of double digit premium growth in the health insurance industry at the expense of the rest of us. And, yes, people get married for health care benefits. They wouldn’t f=if there wass single payer.

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  90. Second lead article New York Times, Monday November 11, 2013 (far left of front page)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/nyregion/talk-of-penalty-is-missing-in-ads-for-health-care.html

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  91. This is a video mashup, put together by New York Magazine, of about two dozen times whan Obama said something like “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” linked to by the Wall street Journal’s Best of the web, November 4, 2013:

    http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut#c=J63WKQ1LRXWQ03RL&t=“If You Like Your Plan…” Supercut

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  92. The TIME Magazine dated November 11, 2013 (actually last week’s issue, out about Friday, November 1, 2013) had five examples on page 12 and 13, two of which are not included in the PolitiFact list of 37 (or 38 counting a Spanish trans;ation.

    One is extremely early, before he was elected president, in the presidential deate he had with John McCain on October 7, 2008:

    http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/second-presidential-debate.html

    …And, Tom, I know that we’re under time constraints, but Senator McCain through a lot of stuff out there.

    Number one, let me just repeat, if you’ve got a health care plan that you like, you can keep it. All I’m going to do is help you to lower the premiums on it. [!!] You’ll still have choice of doctor. There’s no mandate involved.

    Small businesses are not going to have a mandate. What we’re going to give you is a 50 percent tax credit to help provide health care for those that you need.

    Now, it’s true that I say that you are going to have to make sure that your child has health care, because children are relatively cheap to insure and we don’t want them going to the emergency room for treatable illnesses like asthma.

    And when Senator McCain says that he wants to provide children health care, what he doesn’t mention is he voted against the expansion of the Children’s Health Insurance Program that is responsible for making sure that so many children who didn’t have previously health insurance have it now.

    Now, the final point I’ll make on this whole issue of government intrusion and mandates — it is absolutely true that I think it is important for government to crack down on insurance companies that are cheating their customers, that don’t give you the fine print, so you end up thinking that you’re paying for something and, when you finally get sick and you need it, you’re not getting it.

    And the reason that it’s a problem to go shopping state by state, you know what insurance companies will do? They will find a state — maybe Arizona, maybe another state — where there are no requirements for you to get cancer screenings, where there are no requirements for you to have to get pre-existing conditions, and they will all set up shop there.

    That’s how in banking it works. Everybody goes to Delaware, because they’ve got very — pretty loose laws when it comes to things like credit cards.

    And in that situation, what happens is, is that the protections you have, the consumer protections that you need, you’re not going to have available to you.

    That is a fundamental difference that I have with Senator McCain. He believes in deregulation in every circumstance. That’s what we’ve been going through for the last eight years. It hasn’t worked, and we need fundamental change.

    Note Obama says he is for a mandate for children, but says that’s acceptable because it doesn’t cost too much.

    McCain had said:

    If you’re a small business person and you don’t insure your employees, Senator Obama will fine you. Will fine you. That’s remarkable. If you’re a parent and you’re struggling to get health insurance for your children, Senator Obama will fine you.

    I want to give every American a $5,000 refundable tax credit. They can take it anywhere, across state lines. Why not? Don’t we go across state lines when we purchase other things in America? Of course it’s OK to go across state lines because in Arizona they may offer a better plan that suits you best than it does here in Tennessee.

    And if you do the math, those people who have employer-based health benefits, if you put the tax on it and you have what’s left over and you add $5,000 that you’re going to get as a refundable tax credit, do the math, 95 percent of the American people will have increased funds to go out and buy the insurance of their choice and to shop around and to get — all of those people will be covered except for those who have these gold-plated Cadillac kinds of policies.

    You know, like hair transplants, I might need one of those myself. But the point is that we have got to give people choice in America and not mandate things on them and give them the ability. Every parent I know would acquire health insurance for their children if they could.

    Obviously small business people want to give their employees health insurance. Of course they all want to do that. We’ve got to give them the wherewithal to do it. We can do it by giving them, as a start, a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go around and get the health insurance policy of their choice.

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  93. Colonel Hailu #90 – Coriolis named himself for a twisting force that usually causes things to not go straight … addressing him as clitoris gives him some dignity by associating him with something of value to the sensible folk in our species …

    I suspect that “Cialis” is a better name for what he does, since he’s hard up for ways to convince folk that Pres’ent Obama isn’t lying, and is only telling “alleged lies” – apparently even Cialis himself could bring himself to type “Your irrational hatred of Obama renders your constant braying about his alleged liestruthful statements, etc. completely laughable and meaningless.

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  94. (mutter, grumble) Colonel Haiku – I apologise unreservedly … I can usually catch my own typos … (blush)

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  95. The other example mentioned in TIME Magazine that’s not in the PolitiFact list is from September 29. 2010, at an event in Des Moines, Iowa. This is after the release of the HHS regulations.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/09/29/a-backyard-stroll-through-health-reform-des-moines

    THE PRESIDENT: Let me ask you a question, though. I mean, because you said you’re worried about my health reform bill, and the nurse said, here’s what you have to look forward to. Is your mom on Medicare?

    Q Yes.

    THE PRESIDENT: So there’s nothing in our health reform bill that is going to impact whether your mom can get heart surgery if she needed it. We didn’t change the core Medicare program. So unless there’s something specific that you’re worried about –

    Q Medicare doesn’t start until you’re 65.

    THE PRESIDENT: No, no, I understand.

    Q I’m talking about 50, 55 years old.

    THE PRESIDENT: All right, so if you’re not on Medicare –

    Q Yes, right.

    THE PRESIDENT: And do you have health insurance?

    Q Yes. Right now, yes.

    THE PRESIDENT: So there’s nothing in the bill that says you have to change the health insurance that you’ve got right now. I just want to identify what your worry is, because I want to say you shouldn’t be worried about it. But what is it that you think might happen to your health insurance as a consequence of health care reform?

    Q Okay, what I’m concerned about is say if my — just say if my husband got laid off. Say we had no health care.

    THE PRESIDENT: You had no health insurance, okay? Now, right now before reform, if you had no health insurance, you’d just be out of luck, okay?

    Q And then we’d get the government-run health insurance, right? Is that what you’re saying?

    THE PRESIDENT: No, here’s the way it would work. So let me just kind of map it out for you. If you are already getting health insurance on your job, then that doesn’t change. Health insurance reform was passed six months ago. I don’t know if anybody here has gotten a letter from their employer saying you now have to go into government-run health care because we can’t provide you health insurance anymore. I mean, that hasn’t happened, right?

    So you’re keeping the health insurance that you had through your job. And the majority of people still get health insurance through your job.

    The only changes we’ve made on people’s health insurance who already have it was to make it a little more secure by saying there are certain things insurance companies can’t do — a patient’s bill of rights, basically.

    So insurance companies can no longer drop your coverage when you get sick, which was happening. Sometimes there were some insurance companies who were going through your policy when you got sick to see if you had filled out the form wrong, you hadn’t listed some infection that they might call a preexisting condition, et cetera — a bunch of fine print that led to people not having health insurance. So that was one thing that we said.

    We said also you can keep kids on your health insurance till they’re 26; that children with preexisting conditions had to be covered under health insurance.

    So there were a handful of things that we said insurance companies have to do, just as good business practices to protect consumers. But otherwise you can stay on your employer’s health care. So that’s if you have health insurance.

    The other thing that we did was we said if you’re a lot of people who don’t have health insurance, it’s because they work for small businesses, who have trouble affording health insurance, because they’re not part of a big pool — they’re not like a big company that has thousands of employees and they can negotiate because the insurance companies really want their business — so what we said was let’s provide tax breaks to small businesses so they can — they’re more likely to buy health insurance for their employees. And right now about 4 million businesses across the country are now getting a tax break, a tax credit, if they provide health insurance for their employees, that can save them tens of thousands of dollars. So that’s the second thing.

    And the third thing we said was, okay, if you don’t have health insurance — let’s just say your job doesn’t offer you health insurance, or you lose your job — then what we’re going to set up is what’s called an exchange, which is basically a big pool — you become part of this big group of people, just like as if you were working for a big company or a big university like Drake. You become part of this pool, and you’ll be able to buy your own insurance through this pool, but the rates will be lower [!!] and you’ll get a better deal because you’ve got the bargaining power of these thousands or millions of people who you’re buying it with. You’ll still have a choice of plans. You’ll have a choice of BlueCross or you’ll have a choice of this plan or that plan, but you’ll be buying it through a pool. And if you can’t afford it, then we’ll provide you some subsidies to see if we can help you buy it, so make it affordable.

    So that’s essentially what health reform is about. Now, what that means is, is that you’re not going to be forced to buy a “government-run” health care plan. The only thing that we have said is, is that if you can afford to get health care and you’re not getting health care, well, that’s a problem because that means when you get sick and you have to go the emergency room, everybody else here has to pay for it. And that’s not fair.

    So we’ve said if you can afford to get health care, we’re going to make sure that you can afford it, but you’ve got to have some basic coverage so that we’re not subsidizing - – everybody else isn’t paying an extra thousand dollars on their premiums to cover you.

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  96. 85. Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2013 @ 7:24 am

    President Clinton redefined what sex is,

    Actually, Monica Lewinsky did, and President Clinton was about to point that out when he caught himself, because he was not supposed to have had access to her grand jury testimony!!

    I noticed that, but too few other people, I guess, did.

    What Clinton is also is known for is answering a question by saying that it depends on what the menaing of the word “is” is.

    President Obama redefines what “truth” is.
    This is a problem.

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  97. md: President Obama redefines what “truth” is.
    This is a problem.

    He didn’t really do that. He just restated, falsely, what he had said. He never limited it to employer plans. Anyway you have above what exactly he did say.

    Sammy Finkelman (b47846)

  98. Sammy, too many people think that if the one said it, it must be true,
    hence what he says is truth
    even when it is not
    c’mon, you know what the point was.

    Same with Clinton. Who cares exactly who said what when, the President’s behavior was the main issue.

    If you want to nit-pick, why don’t you go through the entire ACA and all of the HHS regulations established with it and make a list of the top 10 internal inconsistencies for us.

    Whatever else one may say about Coriolis, at least he is properly named in having to do with spinning, and don’t nit-pick that with physics text-book definitions and mathematical formulae, either !!

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  99. Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2013 @ 11:59 am

    Sammy, too many people think that if the one said it, it must be true,
    hence what he says is truth
    even when it is not

    That seems to be the position of the editorial page of the New York Times.

    c’mon, you know what the point was.

    Sort of, but I really didn’t catch it.

    Same with Clinton. Who cares exactly who said what when, the President’s behavior was the main issue.

    That’s what President Clinton tried to make into the issue. The real issue was lying under oath and contempt of court.

    If you want to nit-pick, why don’t you go through the entire ACA and all of the HHS regulations established with it and make a list of the top 10 internal inconsistencies for us.

    I don’t even know how to do that. But the whole thing doesn’t add up.

    They have a penalty that’s not a penalty, that’s also too low to force people to do things that are anyway practically impossible for them to do.

    Whatever else one may say about Coriolis, at least he is properly named in having to do with spinning, and don’t nit-pick that with physics text-book definitions and mathematical formulae, either !!

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  100. I don’t really understand the Coriolis force so I am leaving it alone. It has to do with the earth spinning.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)


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