Patterico's Pontifications

8/3/2010

A Simple Request

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:45 pm

I know it’s all the rage to be fed up with the GOP. Lord knows I have been fed up with them many times, and no doubt will be again.

But if you’re going to go around claiming that there is absolutely no difference between the parties, and pretend as if anyone who seeks to elect more Republicans is an unprincipled sellout, could you do us all a favor and stop bitching about ObamaCare?

You know: that bill that Republicans didn’t vote for?

That is all.

275 Responses to “A Simple Request”

  1. Or, just continue to try to have it both ways and hope nobody notices. Your choice.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  2. What does this refer to?

    JD (636015)

  3. I agree. There is actually a big difference between the parties. Not as much as we would like, but a substantial difference nonetheless. The people who rant about both parties being the same are lazy thinkers. The Republican party needs improvement; the Democratic party needs to be terminated before it devours all of our rights.

    exceller (88c906)

  4. Well, I’m not going to stop bitching about Obamacare …

    but then, I don’t think anyone has caught me saying the “there is no difference between the parties” canard. Nor any other Moby-meme.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  5. Colonel sense bridled
    frustration and ridicule
    of RINO

    ColonelHaiku (63753b)

  6. The difference is that Communist sympathizers did not take over the Republican Party in the ’70′s.

    Michael Ejercito (249c90)

  7. Well … here in Illinois … well …you know … like for example LaHood … you know …

    Seriously, the most straight U.S. Senator in Illinois I have known is Dick Durbin, Democrat. The most straight Illinois State Senator is Ira Silverstein, also Democrat.

    What we see from the Republicans up here is exactly what the left has been saying — they are just a bunch of self-seeking little worms.

    nk pretening he's Obama (db4a41)

  8. I think this overstates it a little bit: most people aren’t saying there’s “absolutely no difference” between the two parties – they are saying there’s not enough difference to warrant their support for one or the other in the face of more attractive options, like voting for Zombie Reagan or Montgomery Burns or some such.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  9. What does this refer to?

    The people it refers to.

    If you have seen nobody around the Internet who fits this description, then never mind.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  10. I think this overstates it a little bit: most people aren’t saying there’s “absolutely no difference” between the two parties – they are saying there’s not enough difference to warrant their support for one or the other in the face of more attractive options, like voting for Zombie Reagan or Montgomery Burns or some such.

    OK. Hopefully those people don’t think there’s much difference between an America with ObamaCare and one without ObamaCare.

    Funny thing, though: these selfsame people sure seem to bitch a lot about ObamaCare.

    Do they not see a teensy little contradiction there?

    Guess not.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  11. I’ve never contradicted myself.

    Well, maybe once …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  12. Good luck on that Patterico. I agree with you, but its not a popular position, it seems.

    But hey, at least Republicans don’t support Card Check.

    Wait a minute.

    Eric Blair (fc59fb)

  13. I would not be surprised (anymore) by anything supported by the Maine Sisters.

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  14. I can’t for the life of me figure out how anyone supports card check in good conscience.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  15. From a libertarian point of view, both parties are filled with statists. From that perspective, Democrats are Republicans taken to an extreme. But, if you want to slow the rate at which the statists take everything over, the Republicans are the best of a very bad choice.

    Anon Y. Mous (5ac901)

  16. with Repubs need to
    watch wallet with Dems need to
    use big lock and key

    ColonelHaiku (63753b)

  17. I agree, Leviticus. Thugs.

    Eric Blair (ffe6ea)

  18. Politics is never about perfection (which is why Libertarians are so bad at it), but the selection of the lessor of two evils.

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  19. I may be in the minority here, but I have a lot of hope for the Republican party. With people like Jim DeMint, Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, and Bobby Jindal, we may just have a chance. It’s easy to moan and groan about the past, but it takes character and guts to try and change things for the better in, of all places, Washington. So, unless you either want a palace coup to take place or several more years of Democratic insanity, the Republicans are looking better all the time.

    Libertyship46 (c03e85)

  20. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins don’t support Card Check. As a matter of fact, Collins explicitly ran against Card Check during her last elecition.

    Bob (86d407)

  21. There are substantial differences between the two parties.

    But then again, there’s one substantial sameness — when in power, they abuse it egregiously.

    That’s the part that pisses me off to no end.

    Keith (1291e2)

  22. But will the train wreck be any less trainwrecky if it’s a Team R engineer or a dirty socialist one drooling on themselves in the locomotive? For sure not in California.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  23. I agree, Patterico. A few more Republicans, (even dreaded Rinos) to vote against Obamacare would have made a world of difference in the trajectory and health of the USA. It’s hard to understand why the purists among us do not recognize that.

    elissa (a53669)

  24. #22 just proves Patterico’s point. Nice illustration.

    Eric Blair (6ca166)

  25. I agree with Eric Blair.

    George Orwell (86d407)

  26. look if Team R is gay and someone isn’t gay then they’re not gonna marry it plus it would be illegal

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  27. Thank you, George.

    Emmanuel Goldstein (04ebf2)

  28. I did not vote for any Democratics–But in SF Bay Area–it just did not matter–There are too many D’s.

    BfC (5209ec)

  29. I, too, albeit reluctantly, believe that there’s a difference between the parties, especially when you look at the flag bearers for the Ds [Obama, Reid, Pelosi] – there’s not a Scoop Jackson in the lot [hell, there's not a person who loves the US, at least as I know it, in the lot]. But I must agree – when the Rs were in power, they spent like a bunch of drunken democrats. As for Obamacare, in Missouri, Prop C, with almost 30% of precincts reporting is passing – note there was a large R turn out for primaries, so if there’s not a lot of difference between R ruling elites and D ruling elites, there’s a heckuva difference between R supporters and the ruling elites:

    Yes 202,376 75.7%
    No 64,827 24.3%

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  30. I’d agree more with that if I didn’t think that the Republicans simply have a different version of compulsory medical insurance planned.

    Near as I can tell, McCain wanted to nuke employer-provided benefits in favor of a government-sanctioned set of choices. Sure it was somewhat less statist, but it was still pretty statist.

    If pushed, I will choose right-wing control freaks over left-wing control freaks every time, but it isn’t the best of all worlds.

    Kevin Murphy (5ae73e)

  31. when Team R nominates for the office of president the most Team R-hating cowardly douchebag it can find – THE preeminent douchebag responsible for organizing the most effective Team R opposition ever organized, the trust is just gone…

    that’s not an oopsy that’s without ramifications… that’s a sign of sickness and rot what hasn’t been acknowledged much less redressed

    Team R owes me an apology. I am offended.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  32. The shoe fits me, pretty well. I am on board for voting R without exception. But don’t ask me to like it.

    I’m not getting MY agenda served. Instead, I’m asked to get behind a bunch of issues I don’t really care much about (2nd Amendment, abortion, prayer in schools) that won’t impact my life.

    And I’m watching R’s ignore MY agenda (illegal immigration, out-of-control government waste and spending, not committing to win the wars on terror, drugs, poverty, etc.)

    So, if I make a joke about D and R being like deciding which Golden Girl I would like to f@#$!, I hope you will take a moment to see it from my p.o.v…and THEN you can call me a RINO and feel the self-righteous satisfaction that won’t persuade me and won’t win an election. Just let me be frustrated. The problem is not my attitude.

    TimesDisliker (b9ea2a)

  33. Patterico

    Or for that matter:

    stop bitching about the massive deficit–which rose by 700% under obama.

    i mean yeah bush was bad in spending, but the difference here is like the difference between OJ simpson and osama bin laden.

    Seriously its like as if they heard the republicans say nothing could be worse than bush and said, “wanna bet?”

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (f97997)

  34. Bush is an awesome person and if he had been able to win a third term America would be in much better shape than it is today.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  35. And if the Queen had balls, she would be King. But, here we are…

    TimesDisliker (b9ea2a)

  36. Bush’s problem was that he had no BS detector and appointed clowns to high office. Obama’s problem is that he is a BS clown. I do see the difference, but it isn’t all some would make it out to be.

    Kevin Murphy (5ae73e)

  37. But the prince doesn’t have any balls and he still gets to be king.

    No fairs.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  38. I can’t for the life of me figure out how anyone supports card check in good conscience.

    Comment by Leviticus — 8/3/2010 @ 6:21 pm

    See, right there is your problem, you assumed that:
    a. everyone has a conscience

    b. some have good ones.

    Those are suppositions that are not supported by the facts.

    jakee308 (e1996a)

  39. You know happyfeet, you’re getting tiresome. Did I vote for both Bushes, yes. Did I want them as the R’s nominees, no. In the end, do I think they were better than the alternatives, yes. Do I think Obummer is as disastrous a President as I could have ever have imagined, yes [don't ask about McCain, and I won't tell].
    My wife and I, who are pretty close on how we think, probably agree about 95-98% of the time, but get mad as hell at each other when we disagree. I figure if I can agree with a politician about 80% of the time, he or she’s the one for me. When I disagree with that politician I’m mad as hell. But once I sit back, chill out, and think of the alternative, I’m usually happy with the vote I made. You’re letting perfect get in the way of better. Oh, and some times I’m dead wrong – and that really pisses me off.

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  40. Obama is the nightmare what wakes the antichrist up at night but I voted for McCain/Palin and I felt dirty and used after…

    violated.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  41. THere are some interesting folks on that list, you wouldn’t expect, Bartlett, Bilbray, Florida remember
    I’m not unmindful of the elephant’s propensity to mess up, I voted for Kang, I mean Crist instead of
    Gallagher, the almost eternal candidate, the leg
    as Molly Ivin’s use to put it , is a little better than useless

    Bush didn’t promise to seal the border, or slash the budget expenditures. he did promise tax cuts
    and restoring our military, he did believe in some
    kind of amnesty, McCain was worse, we knew what we were getting, in most respects. He wasn’t crazy
    about nationbuilding, he was kind of forced into that. He did try to do something about the subprime problem, but the same bumblers, bought
    off and worse, sabotaged the thing

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  42. I am personally sick of conservatives telling me that my points of view aren’t conservative enough for them.

    I am for smaller government — much smaller government. I am for more freedom. I am pro-life.

    I also believe comprehensive immigration reform and legal gay marriage are good ideas.

    Get rid of the massive welfare state that we currently have, deport the criminals (you know…murderers and drug dealers), and make it illegal for public employees to be members of unions and I’ll be pretty happy.

    I am sick of the J/K types bitching about Meg Whitman and the ideological purists.

    Ideological purity is for Arthur Koestler novels, Kafka plays, and totalitarians of all stripes.

    Christian (f10530)

  43. Used used used violated used. Team R does owe an apology.

    JD (636015)

  44. There are indeed differences between the “parties”. The problem is that each of the two parties is a front for the Dysfunctional Abusive Parent Party, which hasn’t been out of control of the government for fifty or sixty years.

    htom (412a17)

  45. Christian – People that tell you that are douchebags. However, noting that Whitman and her ilk are far from ideal is not the same as some ideological purity test.

    JD (636015)

  46. Well you have a problem there, because the first part kind of counteracts the other. We saw the ’86
    amnesty didn’t solve the problem, I don’t even see
    the pressing need for gay marriage, but it’s another
    wedge that the left mostly uses, specially since it
    often cannot win by the ballot box. THe second part
    is much harder because there is a constituency for
    govt largesse, Thatcher managed to break through, for a time, but ultimately was defeated by the back
    stabbers in her party, as for Blair, the less said
    the better

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  47. I don’t know, JD. If someone says there is no difference, that suggests an ideological purity level that Howard Dean loves. Bad Republicans are MUCH better than what we are getting. But you’ll see lots of people disagree, even though they may well help get Obama and his buddies reelected. YMMV.

    Eric Blair (0b1bd3)

  48. Eric – I did not suggest there was no difference. But there is nothing the matter with pointing out the lousy candidates Team R has offered recently.

    JD (636015)

  49. there is absolutely no difference between the parties

    The only people who truly believe that either are ultra-liberals or ultra-conservatives.

    As for folks a bit less extreme than that but still on the right side of the aisle, nothing irritated me more than when they’d discount the importance of keeping the White House out of the hands of a leftist like Obama, if only because of the like-minded jurists he’d force onto the Supreme Court.

    Mark (411533)

  50. I know it’s off topic, but is anyone else as surprised by these results as I am? In Missouri, on Proposition C, with 78% of the precincts reporting, the results are:

    Yes 528,247 72.6%
    No 199,376 27.4%
    Total Votes 727,623

    Prop C is described by a KC TV station as follows:
    “All eyes will be on Missouri’s Proposition C results because it’s the first time voters in the country vote for or against the new federal health care law. Basically Proposition C would create a state law against federal mandates requiring people to buy health insurance.”
    Again, I’m surprised at the spread of the vote.

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  51. When faced with the choice of the “Lesser of two evils” just be sure you look at it as making sure that you do not choose the “Evil of two lessers”.

    Abstention would be the latter.

    rls (2ea729)

  52. JD,

    The argument isn’t over whether team R is imperfect, or owes an apology, or any of that.

    My point is that people are welcome to take the Ideological Purity route and argue that it doesn’t matter much who is in power. But it takes a lot of fucking nerve for those same people to complain about ObamaCare.

    Pretty simple, really. Either it matters to have the sort of lawmakers who vote against programs like ObamaCare or it doesn’t.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  53. Did I argue otherwise?

    JD (636015)

  54. JD, it reminds me of the Churchill quote about forms of government.

    How about “I am happy to vote for the “less bad,” given the far worse alternative.”

    Because I hear a lot of focus on the “no difference” meme— not from you.

    Eric Blair (0b1bd3)

  55. I am fairly certain that I have never advocated putting anyone in office that would support almost any of Bumblef#ck’s policies and programs.

    JD (636015)

  56. Did I argue otherwise?

    No.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  57. I also believe comprehensive immigration reform and legal gay marriage are good ideas.

    If by “reform” you mean allowing the large numbers of illegal immigrants already in the country to pretty much receive the same pat on the head that their predecessors received under the (yep, common sense fails even rightists) Reagan White House, then fuggedaboutit.

    As for same-sex marriage, if it’s such a good concept, then let’s take it to the next level and accommodate the bisexuals of America (ie, the “b” in “GLBT”). So if some guys want both a husband and wife, and some women want both a wife and husband, then go for it! Big hugs and kum-bah-wah!

    Mark (411533)

  58. Eric- my only quibble is that I am not happy to vote for the less bad, which I do. I want to be happy to vote for the good.

    JD (636015)

  59. Are we sideways over something, Patrick?

    JD (636015)

  60. Patterico: add four Supreme Court appointments to the list. Two so far. One more for sure. And I’m betting a fourth.

    Maybe just scae tactics.

    Eric Blair (0b1bd3)

  61. I am fairly certain that I have never advocated putting anyone in office that would support almost any of Bumblef#ck’s policies and programs.

    Comment by JD — 8/3/2010 @ 8:24 pm

    Nobody would. But there are those — I am not talking about you — who claim it makes little or no difference who is in power.

    Then they go bitching about the loss of freedom occasioned by policies that Republicans oppose.

    Freedom is not achieved by sitting on your ass and whining. Those who mock the importance of who is in power don’t seem to understand this.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  62. “Team R owes me an apology. I am offended.”

    Mr. Feets – It’s not all about you. Climb down from the cross. We need the wood.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  63. Are we sideways over something, Patrick?

    Comment by JD — 8/3/2010 @ 8:27 pm

    Not as far as I am concerned. Did I say something to make it sound as if we were? If so, it was certainly not intended!

    Patterico (c218bd)

  64. To a certain extent, I agree with that, Patterico. At the same time, Team R members like the lobster pot hoochies, McCain, Graham and their ilk ilk ilk are responsible for allowing a whole truck load of crap crap crap to move forward in their attempts to win favor with the Left, the media, and the idea of comity.

    JD (636015)

  65. We need a better team R quite badly. We need more Republican leaders to either sign on with Paul Ryan of some up with something better. We’re in deep trouble.

    However, even simply continuing the Tom Delay/Bill Frist/ Dubya path would have been drastically better than what we have today. It would have been unsustainable deficits, but nothing like Greece. Obamacare, Kagan, IG firings… there was a big difference and I miss that leadership now that we have something worse.

    But there’s something to the idea that if we support the deficit spending beltway Republicans that we are ultimately shooting real reform dead. I’m willing to make this compromise right now… it’s not like I’m gaining nothing if Michael Steele’s party gains power.

    This is why I love the Tea Party. We need to put as much pressure on the GOP as we can during primaries, after elections, and leverage new media to get as much real reform as possible.

    I can see now why a few people are so mad at Happyfeet (still think he’s a good commenter, partly because I like this kind of debate). It’s just unfair to claim we’re damned either way. Just look at spending before an dafter 2007. This 2010 election matters a lot. And California has two good Republicans… two massively superior to the Team D counterpart. In particular, the ‘cancer hoochie’ is so much better than Boxer that it’s hard to understand the conservative who isn’t highly motivated to volunteer, donate, and get friends to polls. It’s bigger than Scott Brown.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  66. of course it’s about me… I’m not some cat’s toy what this country and its McCains and its Obamas and its Palins can bat around… I’m just as American as those losers are if not more cause I’m from Texas.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  67. happyfeet, part of the reason I find dialogue with you so interesting is that I am trying to figure out some way to bridge the gap between our ideas to get somewhere. It’s hard to do that sometimes because you really, really have a hard time supporting some people I think are very worthwhile.

    Oh well. No hard feelings or anything, I just hope the faction you represent in my head is there when we need you guys in November.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  68. iCarly?

    I’m not seeing how subverting Team R is helpful to Team R. iCarly is just Princess Lindsey without the dress.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  69. “of course it’s about me”

    Feets – OK – So Fred should apologize to you for getting in to the game late and not working hard enough, plus all the dumbasses who voted for F*ckabee, the Mormon, Giuliani, and McCain in the primaries what gave us that lame a** choice for the nomination. It’s not Team R, it’s all the other voters who took the time vote, but that’s just my HO. Carry on whining.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  70. “I’m not some cat’s toy what this country and its McCains and its Obamas and its Palins can bat around”

    Nobody likes a sore loser.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  71. I’m not seeing how subverting Team R is helpful to Team R. iCarly is just Princess Lindsey without the dress.

    That is an excellent argument to make during primary season. (Not really; I’m falsely praising it for rhetorical effect.). But someone told me the primaries are over. Were they right?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  72. Fred also took my monies and endorsed McCain.

    treacherous fredses we hates them

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  73. If you live in California and you aren’t voting for Fiorina you are part of the problem. Period. Please do not bitch to me about the deficit unless you are voting for her.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  74. Patterico – If the person is a Dem, and they bitch about deficits, you should maintain a safe distance, as they are the most likely to be struck by lightning.

    JD (636015)

  75. I don’t know, Lindsey used to be good for something when he was in the house, then he flatlined, Hagel spearheaded the opposition to Kyoto, Specter, well
    there’s no point there. even McCain was good once upon a time, before the Keating 5, I think it’s something in the water

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  76. see you’re a team player Mr. P and for the most part that’s ok, but we’re in times what needs must be revolutionary, however much it appears they’re not shaping up to be.

    When someone works as hard for John McCain as what iCarly did, that’s a clue. She will not welcome the revolution. She will join with those what would strangle it in its crib.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  77. Hagel spearheaded nothing. When the Senate had a chance to vote on Kyoto, to the extent that they voted on it, it was unanimous, like 95-0, against.

    JD (636015)

  78. ==She will not welcome the revolution==

    But Boxer will? This is a freaking six year term we are talking about!

    elissa (a53669)

  79. Me I should prefer Boxer be the public face of a failed beggared state.

    When California goes begging begging, it’s Boxer’s sad sad face I want America to see.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  80. elissa – I think the point is that we should expect better.

    JD (636015)

  81. I can see now why a few people are so mad at Happyfeet

    I think he’s worth scrutinizing because he represents that group of voters who are ideologically and tactically rather ambiguous and can be quite unpredictable on election day.

    Not sure if he should be labeled as a squish, although in some ways he has the sentiments of those people who see themselves as conservative but also struggle with closeted “lefty” tendencies on occasion.

    Mark (411533)

  82. “Fred also took my monies and endorsed McCain.”

    Should he have endorsed Obama?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  83. Yes she was part of the McCain apparat, we had precious few choices last time, Guiliani was run out of the race, Romney quit, Paul lingered like a bad hangover and Huck wellm he was Huck

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  84. Happyfeet – sweet mother of pearl. I don’t know what you mean by “revolution”. If you are talking about an actual armed revolt, it ain’t happenin’. If your talking about a “revolution” wherein the agenda of the [liberal, progressive, statist, socialist, marxist - pick one] current resident of the White House is stopped/reversed, I don’t believe that Fione is as bad as Babs. Say she votes, on controversial bills, only 40% in favor of what I would call a conservative view. Would you still find her so revolting that you wouldn’t vote for her, knowing that Babs will vote 100% for Obama?

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  85. for it to be a Team R person playing the Mary Landrieu beggar/whore role would be very very bad for the Team R brand I think

    I will think about #84

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  86. Walter I’m talking about a paradigm shift I think

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  87. Purity of Essence, friends. Much becomes clear.

    Eric Blair (0b1bd3)

  88. for it to be a Team R person playing the Mary Landrieu beggar/whore role would be very very bad for the Team R brand I think

    Priceless. I heart happyfeet.

    JD (636015)

  89. I don’t want Boxer to be the face of California. Even if California is the nation’s laughing stock (I think it’s more of a harbinger and perhaps a good proxy for more than a few states). It’s silly to claim that’s a reason to support Boxer.

    We need to slow the damage as much as possible. If you want to be revolutionary, I don’t think Boxer is more amendable to this than Fiorina. And she’s actually pretty powerful.

    She needs to be thrown out. I don’t know a single Californian who would treat our military the way Boxer does (I grant there are thousands of such dirtbags, but there are millions of people who deserve a better representative).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  90. I don’t support Boxer.

    But slowing the damage is precisely what we don’t need. We need find who’s doing the damage and cut out their still-beating heart.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  91. Basically Proposition C would create a state law against federal mandates requiring people to buy health insurance.”

    I’ve been reading about how much of a bigger nuisance, PITA, irritant, POS, craphole, buttinsky, shyster and power-hungry bureaucracy the IRS will become under ObamaCare — including the requirement that all businesses (small and large) now must file 1099 forms for purchases above $600 — and I say to hell with them and their supplicants and enablers in the White House and Congress.

    Mark (411533)

  92. Fishermen like to say that a bad day fishing beats the Hell out of the best day working.
    Substitute GOP for fishing, and Dem for working.

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  93. As long as you don’t complain about the policies Obama will enact with the support of Boxer, you’re welcome to prattle on inanely about revolutions all you like.

    Just don’t start bitching about those policies even as you support Boxer being in power.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  94. here this guy gets it

    viva la revolution, brother

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  95. Hmmm. If you don’t support Boxer’s opponent, then you are supporting Boxer. De facto.

    I know you don’t agree, and that’s fine. Harry Reid may win because of POE and the “none of the above” votes. Sure, Reid wins, but at least those folks are pure.

    Much more important than sending Reid home.

    Eric Blair (0b1bd3)

  96. We need find who’s doing the damage and cut out their still-beating heart.

    Comment by happyfeet

    We do need this. I appreciate your candor and your humor about it.

    But why not do both? Fiorina depends on a coalition of voters that includes far more conservatives and reformists than Boxer does, anyway. It’s like Hayworth. He relies on very conservative voters, or his career is over. Fiorina needs to walk a tightrope in a way Boxer doesn’t.

    Unless you actually want things to get so bad that we have some kind of actual bloodshed, a GOP congress will shed more light on problems. They are going to be a check and balance on Obama, of course.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  97. I don’t support Boxer.

    My mistake. I thought you said you are not voting for Fiorina. And you wanted Boxer to be the face of our failed state, or something.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  98. happyfeet, are you on board with K/J’s latest ripping of Meg for being a bit two-faced re illegal immigration & cap ‘n trade?

    They are staunchly refusing to vote for her because they see some hypocrisy and she’s a squish. They’d rather vote Brown over her because unlike what they believe of Whitman, he hasn’t spoken out of both sides of his mouth. So to make the point, they’re voting d instead of R.

    How does that benefit anyone? She’s definitely revealed herself to be a squish on immigration & cap ‘n trade, but is it better to have Brown because it’s the principle of the issue? Does that make sense?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  99. JD, I jumped all over the poisonous HF for using the term “hoochie”. Now, you knock it off, too. There is no place for that term in civilized conversation.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  100. Meg is against offshore drilling.

    She’s not a serious person.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  101. The phrase that fits happyfeet is: “Too clever by half.”

    Mark (411533)

  102. We need find who’s doing the damage and cut out their still-beating heart.

    Very colorful.

    And how, precisely, are you going to do this?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  103. Don’t ask that question, Dana. You know the answer. No matter what the Dems do with the Supremes, with foreign policy, with economy. Axelrod smiles.

    Eric Blair (87c922)

  104. That’s definitive, the drillings. The impecunious California has a ginormous energy deficit what sends huge amounts of capital out of the state every year for to purchase electricities and gasolines.

    It’s an addressable problem.

    you would think.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  105. Mr. P there’s others what are on the still-beating heart committee I’m in marketing.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  106. Why, Patterico! The still beating heart is extracted by reelecting Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, of course!

    Eric Blair (87c922)

  107. John – they earned it.

    Eric – I absolutely disagree with that formulation.

    JD (6ca166)

  108. who is K/J though? Am I just blanking?

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  109. 102.

    #

    We need find who’s doing the damage and cut out their still-beating heart.

    Very colorful.

    And how, precisely, are you going to do this?

    Comment by Patterico — 8/3/2010 @ 9:16 pm

    With ballots. After that, you have to promise to look the other way.

    htom (412a17)

  110. Mr. P there’s others what are on the still-beating heart committee I’m in marketing.

    Let me supply the not-so-diplomatic answer: the beating heart stuff is bullshit.

    If you can’t articulate what it means in reality, it means exactly what Eric Blair just said.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  111. They’d rather vote Brown over her

    There’s a very wealthy and well-known Republican in LA — he’s a big real-estate developer and is supposedly rather conservative (IOW, he’s not like Michael Bloomberg in NY) — who not too many months ago said he favored Brown for the governorship. The guy mentioned something about Brown having the experience and know-how to deal with the floundering ship that is California.

    Common sense is in such short supply in the “Golden State,” that even some of its rightists are fools.

    Greece, here we come!!!

    Mark (411533)

  112. K/J = Ken & John. Meg’s squish is their latest crusade. I’m usually on board with them, but not this time.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  113. Oh — together with tapping out tough-sounding crapola on the Internet.

    I forgot that very important part.

    And that is what makes all the difference.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  114. Happyfeet – I don’t care who you vote in – name the most principled conservative you can name. If that Senator’s state is going down the crapper like California is currently swirling, they’re going to be begging and whoring like it’s Sodom and Gomorra. They owe their constituents that. Sweet Jesus – I fervently hope that there are enough Congressmen to say “No”. But I harbor no expectations that the Senator, any Senator, will not be begging and whoring. And I doubt that the general populace would find it so bad that it would harm the R brand, nationally.
    When the Constitution was being debated, the large states were arguing about whether there should be a house wherein there was equal representation for states, regardless of size/population. The large states argued against such an idea, and threatened to form a union without the small states. Gunning Bedford of Delaware then replied: “The small states will find some foreign ally of more honor and good faith who will take them by the hand and do them justice!” That’s some powerful whoring – but it was justified whoring. Not all whoring is equal.

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  115. K& J, are like SAvage on steroids, they would get me to vote for Meg out of spite, that guy needs a serious cluebat, for Governor Moonbeam

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  116. When people run around saying they can use “kike, hymie, spick, gook, n*****,” etc because “they earned it” the people using those terms have debased themselves and chosen to take themselves out of civilized debate. Same goes for “hoochie”.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  117. Very colorful.
    And how, precisely, are you going to do this?

    my suggestion would be to use an entrenching tool: they make “must see TV”. :-D

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  118. So, John. What approbation for them do you find acceptable? And so we are clear, I do not respect them, in the least.

    JD (ffe6ea)

  119. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins don’t support Card Check yet.

    FTFY

    I actually completely agree with happyfeet’s #104.

    I’m scared.

    gahrie (ed7a50)

  120. 1) Would McCain have given us ObamaCare?

    2) Did you vote for McCain?

    Let’s start answering those questions, “my friends.” We’re gonna find out where you fans really stand.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  121. I also agree with HF #104. But if neither candidate agrees, who ya gonna vote for?

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  122. I agree with 104 too. So does, ahem, Sarah Palin, one of Happyfeet’s most famous targets.

    there is ALWAYS going to be some issue like that. Purity is impossible to find.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  123. That’s ultimately the point, if you voted for Barr or the Constitution Party or chose to sit out the
    final innings. Now feets says he voted essentially
    for McCain, but then drives a dagger into the key
    driver in that race,

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  124. JD, how would you describe them if you were in a Boardroom of a Fortune 100 company with your wife and your 12, 13, and 14 year old daughters present?

    There are many terms from which to choose to register your disgust with people without resorting to race based, gender based, sexual proclivity based offensive terminology. Don’t sink to the “sadly, no” level of discourse.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  125. I don’t want to make assumptions, but there are some conservatives who have said, in my hearing, that they want the system to crash, so that a new, purer conservatism will result.

    No matter the pain and suffering. To each their own, I guess.

    Purity of essence, just like General Ripper.

    Eric Blair (87c922)

  126. 1. McCain would have given us a watered down version of obamacare – in my dreams, something that was more affordable [subsidies for working poor who make too much for Medicaid and who I really have sympathy for] and with some cost cutting measures, like making the working poor pay something so they have some skin in the game, having a WIDE variety of plans, some with relatively high deductibles so that those in good health would be paying for something like catastrophic health care, and allowing to buy competing plans across state lines.
    2. I voted for McCain only because I knew what Obummer was/is.

    Walter Cronanty (7f2f64)

  127. McCain would have given us cap n tax which is same as Obamacare…

    remember our thread the other day? When we were talking about the obamacare being unconstitutional and I said that maybe usurping the constitution to expand government power was the end all be all of the obamacare people, that it had nada to do with healthcares?

    Cap n tax is the exact same deal. Thes ones could care less about what the temperature is. It’s the ruling class holding down the people and farting in the people’s face, just because they can.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  128. *These* ones I mean

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  129. I still vote for Republican candidates. However I refuse to donate time or money to the national Republican Party anymore.

    I voted for every Republican presidential candidate since Pres. Reagan’s second term. I held my nose for everyone of them except Pres. Reagan. They were all honorable men, winners and losers; but they weren’t really conservatives.

    My dream ticket right now would be Christie/Jindal.

    gahrie (ed7a50)

  130. Patterico – I think McCain would have brought us ObamaCare lite, amnesty, and a whole host of other misguided and decidedly not conservative ideas.

    John – Next time I am in the boardroom (tomorrow) or arguing on the internet while reading the words to my children, I will avoid using the term hoochies to refer to those thingies from Maine that repeatedly assbang conservatism.

    JD (6ca166)

  131. There’s no purity in politics, and if you demand a dream ticket you’ll more likely get the nightmare the opposition has in mind. Ask yourselves this, re 2010 and then 2012, who do you want appointing people to all the patronage jobs in the Executive branch and confirming all the judges? Even the Rino-est of GOPers is less scary than the folks the Dems would put in.

    RL in Glendale (358af2)

  132. hoochie blog has a helpful discussion of the word hoochie

    Really, now. Voulez-vous get something better to do than accuse us of woman-hating, when obviously we’ve got the best intentions in appropriating and rehabilitating (a great word — meaning, to dress in new clothes!) a term of anti-woman sentiment? We like the long “o” sound, we like the tschuss-tschuss, we think highly of our diminutive and easy-to-rhyme-with -ie ending, and are pretty happy all around being called Hoochies.

    it’s a feminist blog! So that settles that I think.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  133. Here’s a question:
    If John McCain were President, would there be TEA Parties?

    If you think not, then his defeat was necessary to redraw the political lines.

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  134. Whatever, Mr. Feet. You might take a poll among women, however. But I do like how you never answered Patterico’s questions without more of the vaudeville act.

    Eric Blair (aec019)

  135. So, Clinton, Bush, or Perot? Perot may have been the best choice (for conservatives), but did he have a realistic shot? Would a vote for Bush have been better? Vote for Bush against Clinton and try to win? Or vote for Perot (better candidate) and probably lose? What’s more important, Having the office or being ideologically pure?

    rudytbone (4d0a5c)

  136. JD,

    I am not sure what you mean by ObamaCare lite but it sounds better than ObamaCare.

    Did you vote for McCain?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  137. Those who demand ideological purity can be found voting for Libertarians, or Ralph Nader, or the Green Party.

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  138. Medicare Part D / Obamacare
    Bank bailouts / Bank bailouts
    Auto bailouts / auto bailouts

    I’ll complain about all of them and I’ll continue to think there’s not a spit’s worth of difference between the Democrats and Republicans until they show me different.

    Some Republicans voted against Obamacare because they are principled. I’ll believe that of the ones who voted against TARP and the auto bailout when Bush pushed them. But I see no reason to believe that most of them opposed it for any reason other than it was pushed by the Democrats. If McCain won, we would have had the same massive bailouts, we would be running the same massive deficits. Maybe instead of Obamacare, we’d have amnesty and cap-and-trade. Not an improvement.

    MattJ (e51a1d)

  139. Patterico – I voted against the dirty little socialisms. I most certainly did not vote FOR McCain or Palin.

    JD (f89659)

  140. In environmentalist and environmentalist-lite circles, we have the NIMBY crowd (not in my back yard). To the left extreme, we have the BANANA crowd (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything). In politics, we have DINOs (which appear to be extinct), RINOs and DIABLOs (Democrat in all but label only). The Maine sisters are indeed DIABLOs, and I have next to no regard for them. But that doesn’t mean I can use perverse terminology to attack them.

    As far as the DIABLO McCain goes, I was ready to vote 3rd party. But he chose Palin as his running mate, so I voted for Palin. I sincerely doubt the awakening we’re seeing today would’ve happened with McCain in the White House so, while Obama is far and away worse than McCain, it may well be Obama’s election could be the catalyst that proves to save our nation by galvanizing and awakening his enemies here in the US.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  141. AD,
    And they’d be losers, correct?

    rudytbone (4d0a5c)

  142. but will it go round in circles*

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  143. And they’d be losers, correct?
    Comment by rudytbone — 8/3/2010 @ 10:30 pm

    Purity uber alles!

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  144. feets…if you nail one foot to the floor with a big spike, you too can be a big wheel and walk in circles.

    AD - RtR/OS! (37aceb)

  145. trickery

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  146. Maybe instead of Obamacare, we’d have amnesty and cap-and-trade.

    Well, if McCain was too liberal, than Obama, of course, is ultra-ultra-liberal. If only because all his picks for Supreme Court justices will be extremely leftwing.

    I do realize that one of the former “lefty” dopes of that court, David Souter (aka, the stealth candidate), was picked by Bush I. But that was as much the fault of rightists not making a big stink about him as they did about Bush II’s Harriet Miers. (The 2 Bushes certainly could be squishes on occasion, but they do represent all the squishiness that is a facet of human nature and found in millions of people throughout America)

    With a Democrat/liberal in the White House, conservatives can groan all they want about the ideology of a Supreme Court nominee, but it will fall on totally deaf ears. At least with a McCain, there would have been some sound getting through.

    BTW, I’m not going to even mention all the lousy “lefty” people that Obama is installing in various levels of the federal judicial system.

    Ugh.

    Mark (411533)

  147. Patterico – I voted against the dirty little socialisms. I most certainly did not vote FOR McCain or Palin.

    Comment by JD — 8/3/2010 @ 10:29 pm

    Fine by me. It’s also fine by me for a Californian to vote “against” Boxer rather than say he or she is voting “for” Fiorina. As long as Fiorina gets the vote.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  148. You will get no argument from me on that, except for that the Republicans ought to think about actually nominating Republicans, or heaven horbid conservatives, every now and then.

    JD (636015)

  149. Sometimes in states like California and Massachusetts you take what you can get.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  150. Agreed, but we tend to do the same on the national level.

    JD (636015)

  151. I voted for McCain… which was really a vote against Obama.

    The thing that bothers me is when conservatives don’t show up at the polls and vote for our only viable chance at stemming the spending tide.
    Hold your nose and vote for Fiorina and Whitman.

    Who knows, maybe they’ll even grow into the job.
    I heard a little bit of the John and Ken show where they were calling Whitman “nutmeg”… They’ll dial back the rhetoric way before the election and start ripping Brown.
    It is important to get out the vote and just as important to hold their feet to the fire.
    Tell them “hey, you represent us… so represent this… that’s my money they are trying to steal, it’s my safety and again, my money that gets thrown away in an amnesty plan, it’s my body and I’ll damn well take care of myself and I don’t want a nanny state telling me what I can and can’t do (again… what ever happened to all those women who were demanding that the government keep their laws off their body… now they’re yelling for Obamacare… go figure)

    Vote them in and then be strong willed about expressing what you expect them to do.

    SteveG (11baba)

  152. Waffles everywhere!

    THe Democrats have saddled us with an entitlement society that needs to be addressed slowly and methodically – not overnight

    JD

    Glad to see that in fact you really are a democrat – figured as much – can’t stand Democrats who hate taxes – but – it explains alot

    McCain was not a spender – all he wanted was corporations and unions out of elections (and after BP and GM add in the SEIU and he seems to be ahead of the game on that) and cutting earmarks and spending before we cut taxes too deep – your fantasy about what the man would or could have done is par for the course

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  153. It is important to get out the vote and just as important to hold their feet to the fire.

    I’ve participated in several GOTV efforts. One time, I was sent by the Bush campaign to Pennsylvania where I found myself stomaching Arlen Spector’s campaign.

    Now, I’m resigned to putting most of my work into the primary, if I can even find someone I believe in.

    In 2008, I liked Duncan Hunter. I tolerated Fred (a good reader of scripts). I tolerated Giuliani even though I love my 2nd Amendment. Mccain was actually better than Huck or the ridiculous Romney, despite Mccain’s attack on free speech (at least on foreign policy, Mccain’s very strong, otherwise, very hard to support).

    If the dems had nominated someone tolerable, they probably would have crushed the GOP for a generation. Jim Webb, Joe Lieberman, any kind of fiscally sane, patriotic democrat… I would have been voting for them. They had to nominate a Chicago Socialist Party / Ayers buddy /Wright acolyte / ACORN lawyer.

    Now, the democrats didn’t really win in 2008 so much as McCain lost. To know Obama is to reject him, and McCain failed to introduce the uninformed to this character. He also lost the GOP nomination… it’s just that the rest of them lost even worse.

    What a trainwreck.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  154. Dustin

    So we can put you down as another democrat – figured – there are alot of democrats playing with conservative blogs – ginning up the ABB’s while tearing down those who want a difference – pretending to be tea partiers

    glad Pat smoked them out – look

    Its LEFT or RIGHT

    Duncan Hunter was a LEFTY he never ever was a conservative – conservatives act responsibly knowing that life is a compromise and work towards the long term – Hunter was there as a protest candidate sucking up airtime like Tank Tancredo – its all about them

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  155. If the Journlist revelatiosn weren’t enough as to the bias bordering on deliberate negligence wasn’t enough, tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNorlsJOw_o&feature=player_embedded

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  156. God, you really do double down, on the clueless don’t you, Hunter former 173rd AB veteran, Pentagon
    hawk, resolute anti amnesty fighter, yes he’s a lefty alright

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  157. ian

    He was a fool he lied about Ramos and Compean even though he was briefed and knew the facts of the case

    He’s a LIAR, a LEFTY and a total fool and guess what – no one in the conservatives miss him one bit

    Ian the sad part about it was that he knew better – he was aware of his actions – the fool in him was that everyone agreed with him

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  158. Ian – anyone who KNEW that both confessed one in writing that those border patrolmen were trying to kill the guy and then lies and lies and lies and lies about for months for cheap political gain trying stirring up the country to forment violence is someone that was voted off the island forever.

    Tancredo is about to get the same message as well

    Border issues are tough enough – its going to take a long hard road by many to correct the problem, having hysterics on both sides isnt going to help people make quality decisions

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  159. EPWJ is a crank, Ian.

    Don’t let him get to you. He’s a moby. He makes over the top, but very thoughtless comments to prove his conservative bona fides, and very few commenters are dumb enough to buy it.

    I don’t care if someone wants to call me a democrat. In fact, I vote for democrats sometimes. I don’t care. I strongly favored Hoffman over Scozzafava, and EPWJ went on and on supporting Scozza with some amazing comments.

    Anyway, I don’t want a Scozzafava Republican like EPWJ (A democrat, then), to see me as a fellow traveler. I’m delighted by his breathless moaning. He’s screaming in bold that I’m a democrat… after I noted I was willing to vote for some democrats against Mccain. I don’t think he even reads anyone’s comments completely (think about it when reading his comments and it’s pretty obvious).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  160. EPWJ must have got his khat shipment in overnight as he’s off in LaLa Land again.

    AD - RtR/OS! (88472e)

  161. Ian, you’re clearly intelligent enough that you didn’t need me to point out the obvious. No offense intended.

    As lame as I find, say, Hooten’s arguments, you have to give him credit for being an overt shill. EPWJ is a shill, always attempting to portray that concerned conservative, just to spit out some nasty lie. I wouldn’t be afraid to stand up for my views to someone’s face… EPWJ is afraid to do it over the internet. Can you imagine anything more pathetic?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  162. I speculated on that point long ago, but they drove Lieberman out of the party, Webb is a blank check,
    Hillary is too damaged, so they’ll probably try with Bayh.

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  163. They getit in Minnesota, now, that explains Al Franken’s behavior, actually nothing explains Al Franken, But that little clip is revealing no,

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  164. Dustin

    no, you are a crank – and a lefty democrat

    Who are you supporting for gov in Texas?

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  165. Again Dustin – not heard a word about the Texas Governors race – who are you supporting?

    Time to go on the record here master typist

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  166. I don’t think there’s any logical inconsistency between objecting to Obamacare and criticizing the Republican Party for its drift to the left. In fact I think the two go hand and hand.

    I wish I believed the GOP would scrap Obamacare if they take power. But I’m too old and have seen too much to take that for granted. The best way to make sure they do the right thing is to maintain a suspicious and slightly hostile attitude towards them. The party leaders own instincts are not line with the wishes of the people who vote Republican.

    Subotai (fec082)

  167. LOL EPWJ.

    I have to prove my partisanship to you? If you weren’t such a moron, you’d see I have no loyalty to a party.

    You make yet another nasty demand for personal proof, when you always refuse to back up your nasty attacks when much more reasonable requests for a link are made (such as when you called a border patrol agent a murderer, relying on your provable and sick lies about this incident).

    You ignored how many requests for this video you saw? 20? 50? and I have to show you me Rick Perry sticker on my truck?

    You’re going to have to pick a new handle if you want to keep up the moby routine. you’re totally busted.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  168. I am personally sick of conservatives telling me that my points of view aren’t conservative enough for them.

    I am for smaller government — much smaller government. I am for more freedom. I am pro-life.

    I also believe comprehensive immigration reform and legal gay marriage are good ideas.

    Get rid of the massive welfare state that we currently have, deport the criminals (you know…murderers and drug dealers), and make it illegal for public employees to be members of unions and I’ll be pretty happy.

    I am sick of the J/K types bitching about Meg Whitman and the ideological purists.

    Glad to hear it. So which part of your own beliefs are you willing to scrap in the interest of party unity? I’ve noticed that the “anti-conservative-ideological-purity” brigade often seem to be pretty rigid and inflexible when it comes to their own desires.

    Subotai (fec082)

  169. Again Dustin – not heard a word about the Texas Governors race – who are you supporting?

    Time to go on the record here master typist

    Comment by EricPWJohnso

    Master typist? What does that mean? You’re spamming the thread with nonsense. You’re repeating your bizarre attack on me.

    The time to go on the record as to who I supported for Texas Governor was in the thread on the Texas Governor race. Another EPWJ smear debunked!

    When people ask you to back up your nasty smears (that ALWAYS match democrat propaganda), that’s not license for you to hold an inquisition. You’re a trashy little person.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  170. Glad to hear it. So which part of your own beliefs are you willing to scrap in the interest of party unity? I’ve noticed that the “anti-conservative-ideological-purity” brigade often seem to be pretty rigid and inflexible when it comes to their own desires.

    Comment by Subotai

    It is interesting (I guess in this case I’m the pragmatic, but whatever), that the pragmatics can be very unpragmatic. In fact, they can be extremely stubborn. The problem is that we do not actually all agree on everything, but disagree on how much to insist. The GOP is a coalition of some nearly incompatible factions. A lot of moderates are actually pretty much purists about picking moderates.

    To answer your question, everything but national security and fiscal discipline should be compromised to a reasonable level at this point, if that helps with the first two (my opinion, of course).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  171. Dustin – who did and are you supporting in the Texas Gov’s race

    just again for the record

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  172. Dustin,

    Please for the record – who are you supporting in the Texas Gov’s race

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  173. EPWJ’s up to that trick again?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  174. Dustin,

    Except that I have a pretty visceral dislike for Perry and doubt he would have any success nationally

    Dustin the Liar – oh he’s going to vote for him

    bullcrap – proabably a medina voter too embarassed to expose himself and lkose his blog buddies

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  175. SPQR

    Who are you supporting in the Texas Governors race

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  176. Except that I have a pretty visceral dislike for Perry and doubt he would have any success nationally

    Who said that?

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  177. EPWJ, you’ve been utterly discredited on this site.

    Repeatedly.

    Its time for you to go away.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  178. EPWJ, I posted a link showing my support for Perry in comment 169. Afterwards, you lied in several comments that I didn’t support Perry for governor. Your argument is based on my thought that he doesn’t have national appeal (cut, of course, from my argument that he needs to focus on his governor race so he wins, lol).

    Gee, I wonder why you’re obsessed with spamming threads with attacks on me. It couldn’t be because I have shown three times that you lied. The nastiest one, in my opinion, was that border shooting video you made up. But you do it a lot.

    You clearly want to make up lies about me. I just proved it (so that makes 4 times).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  179. Eric “Pee Wee” Johnson

    So you ask Dustin a question, he answers and then you claim that his answer is false. Well, I suppose its possible, but do you have any proof, or even evidence? Or is this one of those things where liberals insist something is true mainly because they really, really, really hope it is?

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  180. You see Dustin as you have distorted consistently my positions – having some of it thrown back at you seems unseemly – of course you aren’t a medina supporter but in your incorrect assessment of Perry in essense you are

    As the goalposts are applied to me – so shal they be applied to you

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  181. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, why does EPWJ quote me without a link?

    geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee whiz, I have no idea. Maybe because he’s a nutcase liar?

    LOL.

    He’s no good as a concern troll or a moby, so now he just makes attacks. When he realized I was ignoring him, he started spamming the thread with the same exact attack over and over again… even after I proved his attack wrong (not that I even give a flip… I think Bill White’s the best governor candidate democrats have run in a long, long time, and I have no shame for this).

    Just endlessly spam, off topic, disproven attacks. Why? I have no idea. You’d think someone who supported Scozzafava for pragmatic reasons would have something more interesting to contribute to a thread about pragmatics than to interrogate people randomly.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  182. So, EPWJ quotes me. Anyone can google that quote.

    Tell me the sentence that comes after this quote.

    Please, I am begging anyone to do this. As a personal favor. My google is broken.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  183. Good Allah. EPWJ is tiresome.

    JD (50c9d0)

  184. The most tiresome part being that EPWJ incorrectly thinks there is a single person here who thinks he has any credibility.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  185. It does take skill to be perpetually wrong, and not be employed by the Times (NY or LA) Simple odds would dictate you’d get something right

    ian cormac (6718a9)

  186. Dustin

    I think th quote just stands fine on itself

    Its like Perry is a craphead but I’m voting for him

    In other words – I’m not but I’m not going to admit it cause I know its wrong?

    Correct?

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  187. Well, no one has googled it for me.

    I need to go, so I’ll do it for you.

    EPWJ’s argument is that my comment shows that I do not support Rick Perry for Governor, and am therefore a democrat (so what if I were? Though I’m not).

    I imagine he searched and searched for something to prove his case. He found this paragraph:

    Except that I have a pretty visceral dislike for Perry and doubt he would have any success nationally. I realize this is odd, since I strongly prefer he be reelected as governor.

    And that is what he used to prove that I do not support Rick Perry for governor. And hilariously enough, this is what he uses in response to my claim that he deliberately misstates the facts in nasty ways.

    He must be really, really mad at me for pointing out he’s a moby, I guess.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  188. I think th quote just stands fine on itself

    No you don’t. You deliberately cut out the portion that proves you are lying. There’s no way to lie your way out of this one.

    You took your best shot to show I am unjustified in calling you extremely dishonest. And you only made the case so much more clear for anyone who wasn’t paying attention.

    I do not appreciate it. You’re trash.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  189. So, EPWJ quotes me. Anyone can google that quote.

    Tell me the sentence that comes after this quote.

    Please, I am begging anyone to do this. As a personal favor. My google is broken.

    Comment by Dustin — 8/4/2010 @ 6:25 am

    Dustin,
    Here you go.

    Except that I have a pretty visceral dislike for Perry and doubt he would have any success nationally. I realize this is odd, since I strongly prefer he be reelected as governor.

    It’s funny because I didn’t like him for a very long time, but I’m happy with the way the state’s run, lately. So I actually am not to hot on him in a national election. I get the impression he’s a lot like Mitt Romney. This is probably unfair of me. I love the way he’s raised a rabble over Obama’s expansion of government, though. So few people really stand up for state’s rights.

    It’s easy to point out all the problems with Perry and KBH because they are powerful, experienced, and I think capable leaders. We’re pretty lucky.

    Comment by Dustin — 1/14/2010 @ 11:19 pm

    no one you know (196ed7)

  190. Comment by Dustin — 8/4/2010 @ 6:45 am

    Oops, cross posted. Oh well.

    no one you know (196ed7)

  191. Thanks, NOYK! I wish I had waited, but I appreciate it.

    Now, the actual topic is very interesting and I am sorry I helped EPWJ derail one of the best threads this blog has had in a long time.

    The topic isn’t about me. I do not personally matter when we’re talking about how to reform the GOP so that it can reform our country, or whether people should support the lesser of two evils.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  192. The loyalty tests on this thread are more entertaining than usual.

    You guys make Joe McCarthy look nuanced and well-researched

    timb (449046)

  193. Comment by timb — 8/4/2010 @ 6:56 am

    Sorry, timb, am late to this thread. What were the “loyalty tests” you’re referring to…? Also not clear on the McCarthy reference. Thanks for explaining.

    no one you know (196ed7)

  194. C’mon folks. This is just a troll who has some spelling issues. He needs to go back to his lake house. After his varied strange posts, no one need prove him or himself to such a person.

    Eric Blair (facce9)

  195. “…or herself..”

    Eric Blair (facce9)

  196. Comment by Eric Blair — 8/4/2010 @ 7:00 am

    I do find it fascinating, Eric, how people who are apparently trying simply to stir up threads react differently when dismissed, vs. mocked, vs. asked calmly and seriously, vs. angrily debunked.

    Being asked to actually defend the inflammatory statements, when they don’t get their goal of emotional reaction (and heaven knows I’m as guilty of the latter as anyone) seems to produce an almost physical allergic reaction. Pretty amusing to watch actually.

    no one you know (196ed7)

  197. noyk – That one likes arguing with positions not held by people, or voices in its head.

    EPWJ is just psycho.

    JD (c13155)

  198. It’s the khat!

    AD - RtR/OS! (88472e)

  199. I was one who, while Bush was president, complained that the choice was between Democrat and Democrat-lite. Now that Barry-the-Smooth-President has begun to leave a stinking mess on the national carpet, I see the choice is now between leftist/Communist/Socialist and Democrat-lite.

    Democrat-lite is better, but not good enough. I hope the Tea Party can get the attention of the many Democrat-lites and RINOs.

    quasimodo (4af144)

  200. Democrat-lite reminds me of a phrase I once heard, I cannot recall who it was, that said that RINO’s are Democrats, just cheaper.

    JD (c13155)

  201. I believe they called Bob Dole “the tax collector for the welfare state.” He didn’t object to the spending, he objected to the deficit. Today, we would call such a “fellow traveler.”

    Kevin Murphy (5ae73e)

  202. “I see the choice is now between leftist/Communist/Socialist and Democrat-lite.”

    Quasimodo, that’s a fair way of putting it. and maybe I’m a little out of date, but for me, Mccain is only a democrat lite because the dems have shifted so much. Sometimes, he really does seem more like a blue dog democrat than anything else.

    Looking at this in the short term, we make the largest ideological gains with RINOs in blue states vs Dems in blue states. But in the long term, it’s not cutting it for only a handful of GOP leaders to actually have a plan to get entitlement spending in line with reality.

    This is why primaries are so important. You can fight as hard as you can for a real conservative, but still thwart the democrats to some extent, if your primary candidate fails to a RINO. But if you lose a primary and say ‘the hell with it’, you’re minimizing your ability to make a difference.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  203. here is a compelling reason to take a fresh look at iCarly…

    In a recent campaign ad, the Obama campaign refers to a 2004 Senate vote on the issue. Sixty senators, including McCain and eight Democrats, voted to kill a proposal that would have required companies to pay taxes when they import goods produced in their foreign factories. The measure would have limited, though not eliminated the tax deferral.

    During his presidential campaign, McCain has taken a different approach to international taxes. He argues that the current tax system puts U.S. companies at a disadvantage, and has proposed lowering the top corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent.

    Carly Fiorina, the former Hewlett-Packard CEO who advises McCain on economic policy, argued that there is no tax break for companies to move jobs overseas. “If the tax rate were lowered on businesses in this country, businesses would bring money back,” she said on ABC. “The reason they cannot bring money back is because the tax rate is so high.”

    especially in light of this

    happyfeet (71f55e)

  204. Thanks for that. It shouldn’t take someone in business to understand this stuff, but I do appreciate people who really worked the business world. We have too many John Mccain style politicians who have never met a payroll.

    Like I said, the primary is over and now we have to exercise our votes in the general. I think the best choice for you is Fiorina, but that’s not my call. Of course, it’s California, where votes are worthless sometimes.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  205. uh yeah..

    probably worth watching.

    RTF (8fcb72)

  206. I can’t for the life of me figure out how anyone supports card check in good conscience.

    Agreed. Supporting check card suggests that you’re more interested in power than justice, and more interest in outcomes than process.

    Labor fought long and hard to win the secret ballot for unions – because the labor activists of that era knew that the secret ballot was the best protection of the conscience of the individual worker.

    It’s a tragedy that the labor activists of today have given up on it … and I cannot avoid the conclusion that they have given up on it because they’ve given up on the notion of protecting the conscience of the individual worker.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  207. JD: Mrs. Whitman stands a good chance of being elected as governor of California. A more conservative candidate would have stood a less good chance – because statewide California politics are ultimately controlled by the squishy moderates.

    I won’t be voting for Mrs. Whitman, because as far as I can tell her platform is “I’ll do what Arnie said he would do, only I’ll make it happen where he failed”, which isn’t compelling absent some reason to beleive she has better political skills than he does. Which I haven’t seen; all I’ve seen is that she has the power to throw more money than anyone else at the electorate.

    I still haven’t decided if I’m voting for AG Brown, Mrs. Wells, or Mr. Ogden.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  208. Dustin: you need a better team R, I need a better team D. I’d take Paul Ryan over Maxine Waters any day. :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  209. Dustin the Democrat

    HAtes Perry, Dewhurst, Delay – so he says – three of the most conservative and finest people Texas has EVER elected

    Loves… Ronnie Earl and Chris Bell – easily two of the most loathsome corrupt politicians despicable human beings – scum of the earth

    In Dustin the Democrats own words…

    1. Chris Bell, Democrat for Texas Governor, ran Houston pretty well. (due to redistricting and Perry’s good record, I still will vote against Bell,<<<>>> but Texas has two great choices).<<<>>>
    Why is California showing far weaker democrats than Texas? Brown’s got a joke of a record akin to the mayor of Southpark.
    Comment by Dustin — 6/12/2010 @ 4:57 pm

    7
    I can’t imagine he seriously expected to win Lt Gov (which is the most powerful position in Texas in many ways). Ronnie’s a zealous fella, but he’s actually a pretty demanding and competent fella.<<<>>>> While his work against KBH and Tom Delay was aggressive,<<<<>>> I do not think the (R) had much to do with it (it’s just that big politicians in Texas happen to be republicans). Ronnie as Lt Gov would either be a slew of legislation and arm twisting or a total disaster, but I kinda think he’s be pretty effective if only his politics were closer to mine.

    Maybe I’m letting my dislike of Delay color my judgment some. I think the view of Ronnie as democrat hatchet man is a bit unfair, though, and I know that he’s good at his former job. Maybe I’m also letting my dislike for Dewhurst color my views. I don’t think David is a straight shooter.

    Comment by Dustin — 3/2/2010 @ 9:35 pm

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  210. EricPWJohnson – it’s not uncommon for people to have strong opinions about local politicians trying to work on a larger stage.

    I mean: I’m a liberal. I live in the bay area. I loathe both Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris, so I’ll be voting for the Republicans running against them. But that’s because I’ve had a chance to watch their poor performance in their local jobs … it doesn’t mean that in general i’m a conservative or a Republican. It’s just that I’ve seen these particular Democrats up close and don’t want to see them grow more powerful.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  211. You see this is how it works – criticise then say you are voting for him

    except that you are not – its plain to see

    since this election cycle – you do seem to praise Loathsome Texas Democrats and have a strong dislike for all the top Republican Texans in office, in the best times Texas has ever had, ever seen, ever will see (hopefully not)

    and we are supposed to take him at his words all 326,000 of them?

    Dustin the Democrat

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  212. Eric: was that comment a response to mine at #210? If it was, I don’t understand it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  213. aprael

    he has a clear and distinct pattern, and according to every libertartian and conservative think tank Perry, Delay and Dewhurst have been arguably the very best America has produced in many years

    Perry took Texas from 27th in spending to dead last – he enacted the largest tax cut in american history for a state, he was the only governor to send the guard to the border over a dozen times to train local sheriff, he lobbied Bush 8 years before the immigration crisis was even upon us and he vetoed BILLIONS in spending more than the Federal Government

    Dustin uses the same tactics that have spread out of the office’s of the yellow dogs in dallas – nothing new

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  214. 211 was not 213 is

    sorry for the confusion

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  215. Patterico: I live in California. I will not be voting for Mrs. Fiorina; she is widely regarded in my social circle (Silicon Valley software types) as having been a terrible CEO, who was responsible for severely damaging HP’s brand, corporate culture, and financial stability. I would not vote for her for dogcatcher.

    I would have voted for Mr. Campbell. But I don’t have that option now.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  216. She might have been a terrible CEO, but as a Senator, she isn’t a CEO but a Member of the Board, making (not carrying out) policy – which is why most Senators make terrible Presidents.

    AD - RtR/OS! (f9156e)

  217. Agreed, Aphrael. You probably already realize I’m not particularly loyal to either party. Neither are you, of course.

    EPWJ has proven that I am willing to criticize politicians that I support. I have occasionally voted for a democrat, even. I think I’ve proven beyond any doubt that EPWJ is a liar. He cut out a sentence explaining that people should vote for Perry as governor, when claiming repeatedly that I had never ‘gone on record’ on this matter. to EPWJ, it doesn’t matter that I said the opposite of what he claims. He just cuts that part out because he’s nasty.

    and while EPWJ is obviously a moby, and anyone could tell this months ago (he comments in some vague way that we should get those darn liberals before expressing his concern about a conservative in an incendiary and irrational manner). That’s why he’s taking me on… I’ve pegged him and he’s too stupid to win an argument about it.

    Aphrael isn’t stupid. He’s a patriotic democrat who isn’t ashamed of what he thinks.

    I keep thinking about federalism lately, with the Cali judge, the oil drilling ban, and people angry enough to moby like EPWJ. If we had federalism back, Aphrael and I could both have everything we want, share a common nation, but see different ideas in our local states. So long as we all have some basic human rights, the only reason to oppose federalism is the quest for maximum power and corruption.

    I think federalism is the mark of a real Republican. I’m giving happyfeet ammo here against a lot of RINOs, but that’s because he’s right.

    Aphrael, I understand where you’re coming from on Fiorina, but comparing HP to the competition in those times, and it’s clear that it run better than most other companies. It’s easy to point to specific aspects of her leadership of HP as bad… layoffs, etc, but the company drastically outperformed in this survival mode. I respect where you’re coming from, but I ask you to consider how Boxer would have run HP during this time, and if the company would have survived at all.

    EWPJ: you owe me an apology for provably lying about me. That you claim this is ‘just as bad’ as my expressing a negative opinion about you is also something you owe me a second apology for.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  218. Dustin, you have proven EPWJ a liar?

    Welcome to the club. First order of business: getting a bigger clubhouse.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  219. I should also note, Fiorina did a few things as CEO that didn’t help HP, but where just plain ugly. She did not deal with other HP leaders well, and that’s what doomed her leadership and why Aphrael is telling the truth about her Silicon Valley rep.

    I can’t refute all of what he claims, then. I have to be critical of Fiorina to some extent, because I’m not a blind loyalist. Is this proof that I’m a secret democrat? Hardly. I think Boxer is worse and the primary is over.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  220. Silicon Valley:
    Where everyone is the smartest person in the room.

    AD - RtR/OS! (f9156e)

  221. LOL, I called Bill White ‘chris bell’.

    I don’t know why I kept doing that, but I didn’t realize I had put this error into writing.

    It’s true, though, Bill, Kay, and Rick would all be great governors. I think things have been much better in Texas than the nation at large for many years, which was why I supported Rick strongly until the Green Party debacle (and I will still vote for him, but not in a primary).

    Texas is a damn fine state. In the presidential election, we didn’t get any good options, but in the governor’s race, we didn’t get any bad ones (I’m ignoring Medina).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  222. SPQR

    Seems to me ole Dustin is a democrat – in his own words

    So Dustin you are on record as a Bill White Suporter?

    Guess so

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  223. Whew – I knew he was a Democrat!

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  224. Didnt Kerry say I was for it before I was against it and now I’m for it?

    I viserally Dislike Rick, but I care about the Green Party so I didnt vote for Rick but now I will?

    said the master democrat typist formally known as Dustin….

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  225. This is what Texas Republicans do – stop the Feds

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7141149.html

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  226. WTF is EPWJ yammering on about today? Did Breitbart get indicted?

    JD (a30317)

  227. WTF is JD yammering about – oh thats right – got smoked out as a Democrat as well – waS THAT YOU BACKTRACKING UP THERE THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD AS WELL?

    opps hit the lg caps

    hate dems when they whine

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  228. Oh Good Allah. Not this idiocy again. Someone drop me a note when he passes out again.

    JD (f86cb5)

  229. Seriously, JD. I think the guy needs a doctor. At the lake house.

    Eric Blair (14cb33)

  230. Eric: I’m not a Republican, so it’s not really appropriate for me to get into discussions about what the Republican party should or should not do.

    That said, it seems to me that your position – and your tendency to attack as Democrats people who say they consider themselves to be conservatives (and Republicans) (and whose politics strike me as being to the right of the dividing line between left and right), simply because they don’t agree with you on everitying, is exactly the kind of ideological purity test that Christian, Eric Blair, and Patterico have talked about in the comments on this thread.

    Maybe alienating natural allies in the search for uniform agreement works for you. I suspect it would work better in a proportional representation parliamentary system.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  231. I live in California. I will not be voting for Mrs. Fiorina; she is widely regarded in my social circle (Silicon Valley software types) as having been a terrible CEO, who was responsible for severely damaging HP’s brand, corporate culture, and financial stability.

    The book Bill and Dave by Michael Malone goes into detail about how Fiorina came off as a huge departure from the HP culture. Malone is one of those who thinks it was much to the detriment of HP.

    However, I would not immediately disqualify her just because of her lack of comity and inability to get along with her fellow giant egos in Silicon Valley. When politicians (especially Senators, it seems) agree on things all that seems to happen is that we get increased spending, cumbersome regulations, huger deficits, and plentiful pork. I don’t hold out too much hope that Carly Fiorina will become the next Daniel Webster. She may end up being an awful Senator, but I damn sure know that Barbara Boxer is currently and awful Senator and would continue to be an awful Senator so I figure I might as well take a chance on the newcomer. Maybe that’s a cynical way of doing things, but I figure it beats complaining about it and vowing not to vote as some sort of hopeless protest.

    JVW (a52530)

  232. Aphrael

    Actually, Dustin called me a democrat a few days back and actually dared me to see where he stood – because in fact I espouse conservative beliefs

    Perry is conservative maybe the next president – people like ?Dustin? who hate him also think a crook like White is as good a candidate obviously is a false blogging personality or just another tea party reject

    I’m getting weary of the Eric B, JD’s Dustins – the Ron Paul Buchanan self destructive types who endlessly drone on from the safety of knowing that they will never be making decisions for all -
    not that we havent seen those before…

    My non belief that ABB is the next coming of Reagan or Rush is tiresome – do I think Breitbart can do good things – yes – is he – time will tell – but in the end HOTAIR, Daily Caller et al dont have the effect Pat has because here – PAt types what he believes and hold a huge liberal icon accountable – the others – try to cover everything which doesnt work in the end

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  233. Still nuttier than a PayDay Bar, but at least he is spelling more accurately. Just a silly angry troll.

    Eric Blair (abe0c4)

  234. Lake house or European vacation or Middle East—teh crazee goes with him. Jeez.

    Eric Blair (abe0c4)

  235. Eric B

    no, not angry have some down time today – driving my daughter back to West Point tomorrow – have some time on my hands

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  236. I won’t even say it. Other than you need some help with anger management. Other things? Who knows, other than what is implied by the weird and truculent things you write. Take it easy.

    Eric Blair (abe0c4)

  237. Anger Management?

    ROFL

    EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8)

  238. A Revelation:

    EricPWJohnson, no one here gives a rat’s ass what you think, present company included!

    AD - RtR/OS! (f9156e)

  239. And aphrael? As always, you are the calmest and among the most reasoned of commenters here. The upshot is, when we disagree, I am mindful that you have thought things over thoroughly, and are not playing internet games; I think about your arguments very carefully Your courtesy remains a standard that few people—myself included—can match.

    Eric Blair (147785)

  240. alpharel, if you are addressing EPWJ in your 3:45pm comment, be aware that EPWJ is more of a concern troll and I’m unaware of anyone who takes his self-proclaimed “conservative” status seriously.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  241. SPQR: I was addressing EPWJ. Thank you for the note; while i’ve been here a long time (since before the recall!) and am here regularly, the days are long gone when I had the time to read everything, so my sense of people’s reputations has atrophied.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  242. Eric: thank you for the kind words. :)

    Every once in a while I fall off the wagon and say something rash and emotional; I am glad that, when I do, people tolerantly nudge me back. :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  243. If people are tolerant of things you might wish you hadn’t written, why, that is because you are equally tolerant and fair minded. That is the point that the trollish types don’t “get,” I suspect.

    Eric Blair (147785)

  244. That’s a good point, Eric (Blair). Being a good faith opponent, as Aphrael often is, shows character and garners a lot of good will.

    I guess you could see my support for Perry despite my (typical of Republican) criticism of him as my application of the principle behind Patterico’s post.

    The rest of this is basically off topic, in reaction to EPWJ’s dozens of attacks on me. Please ignore it if you don’t care about it.

    EPWJ:

    Actually, Dustin called me a democrat a few days back and actually dared me to see where he stood – because in fact I espouse conservative beliefs

    You are a democrat, mobying a Republican. You espouse the most basic and vague conservatism, transparently so that you can then stir up attacks. This is obviously concern trolling.

    You’re here to attack conservatives, and you always do so in bad faith, resorting to lying. I remember the border shooting thread, where you said you saw video showing all these things that didn’t happen. You stubbornly and obnoxiously ignored requests for a link, and eventually, everything you claimed you saw was proven to be a complete fiction. Extreme bad faith.

    The only people who don’t know you’re a liar are people who don’t pay attention to you. You were so ashamed that you promised you wouldn’t return for the rest of the summer… though you were back within a week because dramatic trolling is your life.

    You complain that I comment too much, but you comment *about me* more than I comment at all. You’re obsessed with me, because I simply call you what you are and you can’t stand it.

    Dustin,

    Please for the record – who are you supporting in the Texas Gov’s race

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    How many times did you ask this? 30 times? 5 in a row? As if I have to answer you within 30 seconds, even though I have this thing called a job and it’s completely off topic?

    And to prove that I am not supporting Perry (which wouldn’t even matter), you took this quote:

    Except that I have a pretty visceral dislike for Perry and doubt he would have any success nationally. I realize this is odd, since I strongly prefer he be reelected as governor.

    And cut out the second sentence. You stalked me across the internet for months and found a quote critical of a Republican (in your head, proof I’m a democrat) and clipped it to convey the opposite of the truth. Even saying I was refusing to say who I supported when you were simply deleting that part of my comment. That’s lying, and its all you ever do. And then took your lie misquote and spammed the thread, because everyone was ignoring you. 9 out of 10 replies to your constant screeching was just to ask you to shut up… no one actually seemed to care if I didn’t like Perry. Of course, most Republicans are a bit critical of Perry, or Palin, or Dubya, or whatever. You can’t even make a case against me when you fabricate your evidence! You’re so pathetic it’s actually kinda endearing… like a baby rat with no legs. Why can’t you just argue with me without lying about me? I wouldn’t be surprised if you used to, and just gave up because you can’t hold your own.

    Anyway, you are admitting to a vendetta because I called you a moby, which you obviously are. In your hilarious fit, you proved again that you fabricate your claims in a nasty and personal manner. When you attacked that border patrol agent, or Breitbart, or many others, you always resort to personal and nasty lies. Your bad faith is obviously coming from a hateful place, then.

    I realize, to the same commenters, it looks like I’m feeding a troll. In my defense, consider how he acted when I ignored him. He took a lie about me and just started spamming and spamming it. I wanted a comment to hyperlink when he comes up and nastily attacks another conservative in his concern troll routine. He’s so angry with me for that accusation because it destroys his shtick’s effectiveness. I sincerely apologize for feeding this troll, but this is such excellent proof he’s a liar that I wanted to put the case into a single comment. I’m trying to imagine how mad I’d have to be to go around the internet acting like EPWJ… and I don’t think it’s even possible for me to get that upset. I am absolutely sincere, God strike me dead, in saying I feel sorry for EPWJ’s obsessive anger.

    What’s a Moby? Some liberal democrats will come into threads, pose as a conservative in vague or banal comments, and then proceed with some nasty and fantastic attack, always aimed at undermining some conservative person or principle. This is called a Moby because the musician told his brainless fans to go around the internet posing as conservatives and then stirring up crap.

    End point: anyone who takes a quote and reverses its meaning in a personal attack on a mere commenter such as me cannot be trusted at all. Whatever EPWJ said, he’s probably lying in order to undermine conservatives.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  245. Dustin, I think the fellow is a few fries short of a Happy Meal. You have nothing to defend. Maybe he’ll go back to his lake house, or back to Europe, or get back to work in the Middle East. It’s just DCSCA-lite, with less spell-checking.

    Eric Blair (d70178)

  246. Dustin

    In so many words you are a Democrat spamming a conservative site

    nothing new – Dustin the Democrat DtD

    EricPWJohnson (0f0a26)

  247. I’m spamming, EPWJ? How many comments have you left in this thread about me? I think it’s approximately five times as many as I’ve left on this blog, in any thread, over the same length of time.

    I proved you lied about me. There’s absolutely no getting around what you did. Don’t you have the decency to apologize?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  248. Dustin, lets raise some money to get a certain someone some Paxil.

    Eric Blair (d70178)

  249. Eric Blair, while you’re joking, I honestly would chip in. I want to be angry with this troll, but I can’t help but try to put myself in his shoes and realize the mindset his behavior requires. It’s trite to say that I feel sorry for someone who’s doing something nasty, but it’s also the truth.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  250. Dustin – It has proven itself to not be decent. Expecting decency from it is irrational.

    JD (3dc31c)

  251. Dustin, I do think there are some loose wires responsible for that kind of posting.

    Eric Blair (d70178)

  252. JD, you’re right. I want to add, though, that you opened my eyes to how judgmental I can be and I’ve done my best to soften it up. I would happily forgive EPWJ if he asked and simply commented honestly.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  253. JD – PeeWee has got to be violating national security regs with those comments.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  254. Dustin – If I did that, I apologize. I have hard edges.

    JD (3dc31c)

  255. JD: you have hard edges BECAUSE YOU’RE A RACIST! :P

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  256. JD, you don’t owe me any apology. If you’re joking, I’m just too tired from my day to catch your dog whistle racism.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  257. Dustin – I wasn’t kidding, if I did that, I am sorry.

    aphrael – you forgot bitter clinger xenophobic jingoistic imperialistic warmongering patriarchal sexist misogynist misanthropic homophobe.

    JD (3dc31c)

  258. JD: there shouldn’t be any spaces in bitterclingerxenophobicjingoisticimperialisticwarmongeringpatriarchicalsexistmisogynistmisanthorpichomophobe.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  259. Wow. That is way better. I am soooooooooo stealing that, aphrael.

    JD (3dc31c)

  260. You forgot to add “Democrat.”. No offense, aphrael. Its just that person was flinging the term about like an insult.

    Eric Blair (a30317)

  261. Eric – right, but it didn’t seem to really be about being a Democrat, as otherwise I would be subject to the same insult. It seemed instead to be about being a crypto-Democrat, a Democrat hiding his true nature and pretending to be something else.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  262. Correct me if I am wrong, but it should be pretty clear, crystal clear, that I may be a lot of things, but Democrat is not one of them.

    JD (3dc31c)

  263. I believe 1 in 3 or so democrats supports a balanced budget amendment. That figure could be out of date, but at this point, I’m close to a single issue voter if that issue is fiscal sanity. Any democrat who runs on that platform would get a donation from me.

    I have no problem with honest democrats. This is a nation of different ideas. Our founders did not agree on everything, which is why they wanted a federal system.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  264. “JD: you have hard edges BECAUSE YOU’RE A RACIST!”

    BAM!!! Down Goes JD! Down Goes JD!

    Well played aphrael.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  265. Dustin – I don’t support a balanced budget amendment. I think that one of two bad things would result: (a) we would be constrained in the event of a real emergency, or (b) whatever emergency provisions were provided would be abused beyond recognition.

    I think this is one of those things where people who want a balanced budget have to do the hard work of pushing our representatives and holding them to it … a constitutional amendment is a quick fix to a long-term problem, and will be rendered meaningless without the cultural change needed to make it work.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  266. I think that one of two bad things would result: (a) we would be constrained in the event of a real emergency,

    Would you support a balanced budget amendment if it required a special super majority vote, citing a specific emergency, to break? Enough to be possible if there was a WWII or even Katrina type emergency?

    I guess I always just have that in my head for the requirement.

    I think our current spending is a real emergency in and of itself.

    I think you’re right, though, it’s a deep cultural problem that requires a change I don’t think can even be made. My solution is a shortcut, for want of a better solution.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  267. Dustin – Any democrat who runs on that platform would … be pretty close to being a liar ;-) though there is no doubt that many will campaign on it. We have seen what happens when they get the checkbook, since 2006.

    JD (3dc31c)

  268. JD, you don’t believe Obama’s pledge to reduce the deficit?

    Is this because he’s black?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  269. Dustin – I’m very, very leery of supermajority requirements. I think it’s far to easy for them to be used by minority parties wishing, in essence, to blackmail the majority.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  270. They certainly can be, aphrael. No solution is foolproof. I think an emergency so horrible it warrants robbing our grandkids should also be too serious for such a scheme to work.

    No problem, though. You see the potential for a serious debt warranting crisis to be a more worrisome problem than our current debt, and I weigh them the other way. It’s like most political disputes… most of them, people agree on what’s good and bad, but disagree on which is the priority.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  271. Think it is bad now, just wait until he jacks up taxes on everyone, tries to bailout people upside down on their mortgages, and the other bad ideas they are pushing.

    JD (3dc31c)

  272. I’m dubious about a balanced budget amendment. The most likely outcome is that the budget would be “balanced” in some strange contorted definition, while debt would continue to accumulate. That’s what happened in California.

    The real solution is to elect a president and Congressional majority that really cares about balancing the budget and reducing debt. But that requires discerning who is sincere and who is just mouthing platitudes to get elected.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90)

  273. Robert Rubin checked in this morning in the WSJ, decrying the gov’ts paucity of revenue this year from the momentarily lapsed Estate Tax, and looking forward to a return to fiscal sanity with its restored rates next year.

    I’m sure glad Bob is around to keep us centered.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  274. Yes, Bradley, there could be problems with an amendment. One is if it’s not well written, it could lead to a BS balanced budget and a crushing debt. I believe that concern and Aphrael’s can be addressed pretty well.

    The other concern, lawmakers who don’t care about debt reduction… well, we’ve seen them break laws. They could simply not pass a budget, if the law says a budget must be balanced. they could simply ignore that amendment, too.

    But while your solution would work well if it was possible, it is not possible. Over the long run, the left will regain power after being beaten back as they will be in November. It could happen quickly. We could use some major hurdles, hopefully well written with strong enforcement measures to make it somewhat less likely the law is ignored.

    None of these solutions, be they term limits or flat tax or balanced budget, are perfect.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  275. “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union…”

    I think the Founders realized that perfection is to be sought, but can never be attained.

    We need to regain that level of humility.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)


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