Patterico's Pontifications

10/15/2008

Final Presidential Debate is Tonight

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 2:27 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

The third and final Presidential debate between John McCain and Barack Obama is tonight at Hofstra University in Long Island, New York. The moderator is Bob Schieffer of CBS and this is the set for the final debate:

Final McCain-Obama Debate

My gut feeling is that John McCain doesn’t want to attack Barack Obama on things like Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright, either because he believes it’s counterproductive or because he’s unwilling to attack on these topics. However, at this point, I don’t think it matters.

Voters either already have doubts about Obama or they are resistant to these arguments. I hope the past week has been, in part, a head-fake by McCain designed to convince Obama to focus his debate preparation on Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, and related topics and to induce Obama to spend that much less time focusing on the details of the candidates’ policies. Thus, while these topics may come up, I think McCain should respond vigorously, succinctly, and move on.

Instead, McCain should talk to the American people about conservative strengths: That he is a capitalist on the economy and experienced in international affairs. Ideally McCain will describe in simple terms his plans and details, and contrast them with Obama’s pandering and vague promises. Can McCain do it? I don’t know.

This is the final debate. Many people view it as make-or-break for McCain and maybe it is, although the primaries and the general election have shown that a lot can change in a few days. McCain’s character is clear to most Americans, so I hope he can look back on this night and know that he also made his policies clear to the American people.

Feel free to use this as an open thread on the debate and, no matter what happens, savor the political drama of this last debate.

— DRJ

188 Responses to “Final Presidential Debate is Tonight”

  1. He needs to relate Ronald Reagan’s sense of optimism, and contrast that with Obama’s “America isn’t as great as it once was” rhetoric.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  2. I agree. One reason voters want change is because they feel out of control, and optimism about the future makes people feel in control.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  3. I would add to those points that he doesn’t believe that the US should be subjected to the old Kerry canard of a “global test,” in order to justify our existence. Obama has made this tenet quite clear over the past few months – our country is a model for exceptionalism, and our ancestors broke away from other countries for precisely this reason (as well as many others).

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  4. He is starting to come up with some good economic policies, like the capital gains tax cut. Obama clearly doesn’t understand that and, with the stock market down again, this is a good time for a McCain lecture on taxes and incentives. Obama has a Marxist concept of economics, like the plumber lecture, which McCain should bring up. If I were McCain I would spend the entire debate on the financial meltdown with ideas like the cap gains tax cut and a discussion of how small business and entrepreneurs function.

    Iraq is passe and the Ayres thing is a viral topic that will or won’t work but is not worth McCain’s time tonight. He could mention ACORN and vote fraud if it comes up but he shouldn’t bring it up. It is clear to me that Obama does not understand economics and McCain (who is no expert but may be getting better advice) could score by showing that.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  5. I agree that McCain should avoid Ayers and Wright tonight, but rather, should hit Obama hard with ACORN, abortion and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac connections. Explain to the people how much money Obama gave to ACORN, $800,000 and how much money he got from Fannie and Freddie – around $126,000. Explain how Raines and Johnston were behind the fiasco and are Obama advisors. Explain how Obama voted against the ban on killing babies whose abortions are botched and the kid is actually born alive. Then McCain needs to hit all his positives on National Security etc.

    J. Raymond Wright (d83ab3)

  6. I wholeheartedly agree with your advice to McCain. He has to reach directly to the American people, and ignore Obama as much as possible.

    Of course that’s what I’ve been saying for a month, while most Republicans have been howling for McCain to focus more on Ayers and ACORN.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  7. Biden’s “We’re not proposing socialism, just a soft place to land when you fall,” rhetoric might as well be “Everybody on the collective has a job”. I know that a lot of people think it would be detrimental for McCain to point out how so many of Obama bin Biden’s proposals smack of Marxism, but GEEZ!!! But then, the scariest thing is how so many young people — and of course it has been 18 years now (coincidence? hardly) since the Soviet Union fell — are ignorantly unaware of how destructive and totalitarian Socialism can so easily become. Thanks, American public school and university system!

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  8. But then, the scariest thing is how so many young people — and of course it has been 18 years now (coincidence? hardly) since the Soviet Union fell — are ignorantly unaware of how destructive and totalitarian Socialism can so easily become.

    Besides, you can only have one boogyman at a time. You’ve got terrorists now — you can’t go back to socialists just because terrorists aren’t working for you.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  9. McCain could ‘change’ the dynamics by not bothering mentioning Obama and announcing someone like Mitt Romney as his Treasury Secretary and outlining the economic plan for the rest of the debate. I think it could have same impact as the Palin choice if it was done right.

    If he’s going to attack Obama, he needs focus on Obama’s leadership of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and the fact that Obama squandered 100 million dollars of other people’s money and accomplished nothing.

    liontooth (0edfdb)

  10. he needs focus on Obama’s leadership of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and the fact that Obama squandered 100 million dollars of other people’s money and accomplished nothing

    At this moment in time, with the feds spending 1 trillion to bail out the economy (and not having much luck) that’s not going to work either.

    McCain can’t win this debate by criticizing Obama. At all. You guys hate Obama, so you can’t see that, but it’s true. If he criticizes Obama, he just ticks off the voters who already like Obama, and makes the voters who like him happy.

    Undecideds at this point are waiting to be romanced. They aren’t trying to decide who to vote against. Those who don’t feel romanced will simply not vote at all — they’re not going to vote against someone.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  11. A phrase he should use and re-use is “Obama’s rubber-stamp Congress.” As in: “My opponent claims his tax plan will result in a cut for 95% of Americans, but he’s presented many tax plans in the past year, and who knows what he’ll present to his rubber-stamp Congress.”

    And then emphaisize the point that ANY plan under McCain will be biparisan by force, while Obama might be tempted to advance VERY left-wing solutions given the Democrat lock on Congress.

    Kevin (805c5b)

  12. Your amazing powers of prognostication regarding undecided voters are duly noted, Phil. But you cite nothing to substantiate it, so whatever.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  13. Phil,

    I don’t think McCain could completely avoid issues like Ayers and Wright before this last debate, although he did his best. Adding Palin helped with the base but McCain also needed (as you put it so well) to romance the voters. However, the voters who doubt McCain the most were and are in his conservative base, and we want him to be as offended by Obama’s associations as we are. IMO Obama doesn’t need to romance his base as much because they know he is a liberal.

    As for multiple boogeymen, I disagree in theory and in practice. In theory, you can have a national security boogeyman (terrorists) and an economic boogeyman (socialists). Further, in practice, I think you badly underestimate voters when you imply they can only grasp one issue at a time. Even disinterested voters can grasp 2-3 vital concepts if they are clearly presented. I could be wrong but I’d far prefer to overestimate American voters than to underestimate them as weak-minded.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  14. Phil’s got it right, as does Patterico. There is no one who doesn’t know about Annenberg and Ayes who still wants to know.

    What people need to hear is that the economy won’t collapse, that there will be no repeat of the Great Depression, and that abandoning capitalism for leftist notions that have failed everywhere they’ve been tried is a bad idea. This is a bad patch, and there will be a recession (there always is, eventually), but the greatest engine the world has ever seen for creating prosperity — capitalism — will come through again, as it always has. Why give up on something that always works for something that never does?

    Kevin (805c5b)

  15. Kevin,

    Patterico might agree with me on this but I don’t know what he thinks, so I want to clarify that this post is my opinion and not Patterico’s. But thanks for the support and the additional good points.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  16. Phil, DRJ said it for me: terrorists are the foreign boogeymen, socialists are the domestic terrorists (and YES, I mean it that way).

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  17. I’d much rather see McCain imply that OBAMA was off to the left than talk about how someone else who he know thinks. It’s Obama who is going to be President, not Ayers. Make him name people on the economic right who he talks to, if any. If he names Cobern again, get oObern to denounce him as a Commie.

    Kevin (805c5b)

  18. DRJ —

    Sorry misread poster name.

    Kevin (805c5b)

  19. McCain needs to neatly eviscerate Obama’s tax plan, and clearly establish that this is not the magic bullet that he wants voters to believe it is.

    Then McCain should succinctly remind Americans why living in the socialist nation of Obama would be devastating to the freedom and riches of a capitalist society. He needs to spell it out, in simple powerful terms.

    I would also like him to hit Obama hard on abortion, last trimester and emphasize that a person who recognizes the intrinsic value of human life does not support the scissors in the head death nor support to refuse aid comfort to a baby who survives. I don’t believe Americans have a clue about this. (of course none of us wants to hear horrible truths at times).

    Dana (658c17)

  20. Rush is right. Anyone who is “undecided” at this point is just a liberal in hiding.

    The American voter is looking for any excuse to justify adding teats to the government pig. They intrinsically understand that JSM will not so readily go for more teats. Obama, on the other hand, is guaranteed to do so.

    The “rational” thought in the voter’s mind is that the system is broke. They are not wrong. So, why not do what our forefathers since 1931 have always done in the face of fiscal pain – spend, spend, spend. Who cares about debt? We’ll just continue to borrow or create more money as we always have.

    Given our generational history, why shouldn’t this “thinking” dominate? Indeed, would it not be IRrational to not stick to what has worked for 70 years in the modern world?

    Yes, it’s a big lie, but it is the perceived truth by the American electorate.

    Ed (f58dc1)

  21. I have to disagree with you on that score, Dana – abortion may be a lightning – rod issue for some in McCain’s base, but for the general public, it’s more of a secondary one at this point. The old adage that voters vote with their wallets may be more appropriate in this election than many others of recent memory. McCain is not keen on that issue, and he needs to assure some of Hillary’s/independent voters that he’s not going to overturn Roe – and yes, I believe that a significant percentage of those voters are still mad as hell at Obama’s tactics during the primary, and are ready to give it right back to him at the polls.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  22. I’m guessing this is going to be a fairly boring debate that ultimately gets described as a win/win. We will see both sides get a bump in their percentages, as the 15% remaining undecided start to go either way. I certainly don’t see either side losing current support unless there is a spectacular flameout.

    If there is an edge going in it is for Obama, because by now people generally know how he will respond and he should do it competently so he will “do what he had to do” and get credit for a good performance. Since no one is quite sure what McCain will do (how hard he hits Obama on Ayers, etc.) he might get criticized for either hitting that stuff too much, or not enough. There are going to be some people who call this a missed opportunity no matter what he does, which is unfortunate but kind of the campaign’s fault for sending conflicting signals.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  23. Indeed, would it not be IRrational to not stick to what has worked for 70 years in the modern world?

    Reagan proved that if you lay out the groundwork for a smaller government and combine it with a reduction in onerous taxes, the electorate will give you the support that you deserve. Although the circumstances today are different, I see no reason why McCain cannot make a similar case.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  24. If McCain wants a chance at winning he’s going to have to apologize for picking Palin and announce he’s replacing her with Romney/Huck/Thompson, etc.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  25. Dmac, you may be right but I can’t help but think there are a tremendous amount of people who don’t realize how far out on the fringes Obama is on the abortion issue. But then again, I think there are probably an equal number of people who don’t have a clue what the unintended consequences of Obama’s tax plan would be.

    #23, also Dmac, I suspect that we may be the last generation that understands the importance of having smaller government. There is plethora of population that were brought up at the government trough and would scream at the mere thought of it being reduced, let alone boarded up – hence Obama’s economic point of view being solidly embraced.

    Dana (658c17)

  26. If McCain wants a chance at winning he’s going to have to apologize for picking Palin and announce he’s replacing her with Romney/Huck/Thompson, etc.

    Comment by snuffles — 10/15/2008 @ 4:00 pm

    Am pleased you think she’s effective too. :)

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  27. Dmac, you may be right but I can’t help but think there are a tremendous amount of people who don’t realize how far out on the fringes Obama is on the abortion issue.

    You’re absolutely right. Many people I talk to have NO idea about BAIPA (sp?), etc. Simply because it isn’t being brought up in the the news or the debates.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  28. I think she’s been quite effective at ending McCain’s campaign, noyk.

    With Palin on his ticket, even George Washington would have lost.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  29. Heh. Diana West, CNN pundit, just stated that she is amazed the public, especially small towns, are actually embracing Obama and his socialistic views in light of his bitter-clingy-guns statement and she defined his socialist views specifically as his ‘wanting to spread the wealth around’ policies. Other commentators were not happy and began to sputter but Dobbs had to cut to commercial. Nice to see some sanity in the poised person of West.

    Dana (658c17)

  30. Here are my thoughts on what McCain should do tonight…

    Claim Obama is using and exaggerating our problems in order to move the country away from the principles that we’ve long ascribed to, that while serious, our problems do not rise to the level that justifies what Obama is planning on doing. McCain needs to reassure voters that things aren’t as messed up as they’re being led to believe. We want a return to normalcy (house prices and 401(k)s going up, gas prices down) more than we want to blow everything up (nice Ayers reference, huh?).

    And he also needs to establish that he alone has the experience, that the last thing one does when facing anything more serious than the most minor trouble is look to someone whose claim to fame is reading a bunch of books and wanting to be President since kindergarten. (lots of analogies: soldiers right out of basic don’t get to become General, reading Gray’s Anatomy doesn’t entitle one to start misdiagnosing and cutting open patients, graduating from an Ivy League school just doesn’t cut it when it comes to rescuing a company in trouble).

    And he needs to work the plumber into his answers, how Obama plans on taking from those who Obama defines as ‘having’ and giving to Obama’s favored few. Nobody wants their pocket raided and McCain needs to convince voters that they’re not going to be the ones benefiting from the plans Obama drew up in the living room of Hyde Park radicals (yeah, another Ayers reference. it’s okay to make mention of it, but not to make it the centerpiece of the campaign).

    stevesturm (3b7833)

  31. Rather than attack Obama’s particular tax plan, McCain should dismiss it as a mere pander that will be forgotten once Obama gets together with the rubber-stamp Congress. Then we’ll be back to Obama’s original plan “which would have treated everyone who made $80K/year as ‘rich.'”

    Kevin (805c5b)

  32. Sadly, Dana – you may be right on both counts, but I’m trying to think of the glass as half – full.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  33. Gah. Only if its half-full of liquor, Dmac. It is surreal to think that America may very well welcome into its highest position, a socialist. Fill ‘er up.

    Dana (658c17)

  34. Dana said:
    ” also Dmac, I suspect that we may be the last generation that understands the importance of having smaller government. There is plethora of population that were brought up at the government trough and would scream at the mere thought of it being reduced, let alone boarded up – hence Obama’s economic point of view being solidly embraced.”
    I think you have the right idea but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it is the last one. When you consider the 40 and under folks have never really known what working/living in a “bad” economy is like this may explain some of the “rose colored glasses”. This recession is only beginning and is going to influence a lot of younger people in terms of living within their means and without the unlimited credit that has been shoveled out.
    Four years of lean times will be Obama’s to own if he wins and the young people so enamored now will be disappointed. If McCain wins I think he leaves after four years of ensuring more responsible fiscal policy.
    In any event four years from now I think society will be much more pragmatic.

    voiceofreason2 (d9c3ba)

  35. I wonder if snuff-film can point out ANY instance of a presidential candidate losing the general election BEACAUSE OF who his VP candidate was.

    clockiztickin’

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  36. I hope he says that it’s not your strange choice of acquaintance, but your reluctance to come clean about them that’s the cause of concern.

    Dan Collins (4dc2da)

  37. McCain is very collegial with the liberals in the Senate and does compromise with them ad nauseum. Just what have the Dems compromised on? They’re the ones actually responsible for the housing mess. Any criticism is deemed racist in nature.

    So what could McCain manage to accomplish with perhaps a filibuster-proof Senate or gang of 14 BS preventing conservative judges to be appointed? So Congress makes a mess and the evil Bushitler and his clone are to blame regardless?

    How can we spend over $1 Trillion and not have it incur big time inflation? Derivatives are $800 TRILLION around the world- which is TEN times the GDP of the WORLD.

    Ok, the Last Depression at least did not have the massive credit woes- some people had saved. How will Obama handle a meltdown? Will he exacerbate the length and depth of a downturn?

    NOBAMA- terrorist endorsed

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  38. I think tonight will be an important night and I don’t think it will be a draw, but I have no idea who the winner will be.

    I also think the pollsters don’t know what demographic adjustments should be made to adjust for expected turnout relative to voter registrations/interest, so the polls could be way off. However, as with this debate, I have no idea which way they may be off.

    Thus, for me, it’s going to be an interesting night and next 3 weeks.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  39. my family has already made up their minds.
    and we will be voting for obama,

    mccain is just like bush, we don’t need 4 more years of the same.
    go obama go. 2008 vote obama nov. 4th 2008

    carl (d16328)

  40. My gut feeling tells me it will be a great night for McCain. Why? I don’t know. That is why it is a gut feeling. Obama needs to tread veeeery carefully. He needs to stay on message and not try too hard. He is already in front. He should also not try to look down on McCain. Any attempt to diss McCain will be viewed as elitis and proud. He must stay humble. He must treat McCain with respect and candor. He must know that his target tonight are those who still believe McCain is a better choice. But might be inclined to switch over to him. He needs to win them over by seeming respectful and gracious. He must not try to be dragged into the negatives. No matter what McCain does, he must never bring Keating or any past scandal. He must seem presidential and above the fray. We have seen that going negative has not paid McCain much. He must not pursue it. In conclusion, Obama must remember that for the first time a bloc of voters are going to begin to consider voting for him. He must win them over with his charm. But still I get this feeling that McCain may take the night. Hope I am wrong.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  41. Major League Baseball Agrees to Fox’s Request to Delay Game 6 of World Series 15 Minutes to Air Obama TV Ad

    As a family of conservatives and Dodger fans, this is just seriously adding insult to injury!

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/major-league-ba.html

    Dana (658c17)

  42. Obama will NOT be respectful towards McCain. He’s gone too far in the direction of painting McCain as Bush’s third term; if he abandons that now, he’ll appear impotent.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  43. 45 minutes and counting, snuffles.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  44. DRJ 38: “I also think the pollsters don’t know what demographic adjustments should be made to adjust for expected turnout relative to voter registrations/interest, so the polls could be way off. However, as with this debate, I have no idea which way they may be off.”

    Although it is such a suspect sampling due to small size and other problems, and the results are so one sided they are immediately suspect, and further early voters are not demonstrably demographically the same sample as all voters, SurveyUSA indicates early voting is going overwhelmingly to Obama.

    My take on that is ignore the size of the numbers but if I had to say which candidate had more voters eager to get out and vote, this is useful evidence that Obama has the edge. If I were on a campaign I would much rather have the early votes going to me than the other way around in terms of a predictor as to who has the final edge on turnout.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  45. mccain is just like bush, we don’t need 4 more years of the same.

    Thanks for providing that insightful form of Axelrod talking points – you won’t believe it, but we’ve actually never heard that one before.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  46. If I were on a campaign I would much rather have the early votes going to me than the other way around in terms of a predictor as to who has the final edge on turnout.

    This is the exact same dynamic that played out during the Kerry/Bush campaign, which led almost the entire MSM into a cocksure viewpoint that it was going to be not only a victory for Kerry, but most likely a landslide. Early voting is not a reliable indicator of how the election’s going – it’s merely a snapshot at a specific point in time.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  47. va will never go democrat, fuck hampton and richmond

    brian (6a86ba)

  48. Aplomb,

    We also saw early voting results favoring the Democrat in 2004. During the Bush-Kerry race, Daniel Drezner offered 3 theories about why this could occur:

    1) As in 2000, the polls for Election Day are missing turnout and early voting, and so the final vote tally will mirror the early voting and Kerry will win handily;

    2) The early voters are disproportionately likely to vote for Kerry so they have no bearing on the final outcome;

    3) The polling of early voters relies on too small a sample and should be ignored.

    I think these options also apply to this election.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  49. Dmac and DRJ: Ok fair enough, didn’t know that about Kerry and early voting. I did try to caveat my point by saying we shouldn’t take too much from it, just that I’d rather have it in my favor than otherwise if I were running.

    Wonder why Dems seem to go for early voting more than GOP? Is it that Dems are more eager to vote, or that the people who make up their minds at the last minute tend to go GOP? You could take heart either way depending on the answer to that.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  50. Open your mind a bit Icy, and understand that not everything needs a precedent.

    Palin is such a bad choice that her name will become a euphemism for any poor choice from Nov. on.

    10 quatloos says McCain dumps her tonight.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  51. 10 quatloos says McCain dumps her tonight.

    Comment by snuffles — 10/15/2008 @ 5:40 pm

    Well…after having made his decision, and after all the statements he’s made praising her as a really good choice…does that kind of disloyalty – never mind inconsistency and lack of follow-through – really strike you as consistent with McCain’s character as demonstrated so far?

    I mean – nobody talks about the “McCain bus” and all the people under it.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  52. Is it that Dems are more eager to vote

    During the interviews with many of the exit pollsters whose projections were proved spectacularly wrong, observations were made that frequently mentioned how angry the early voters were, and how eager they were to express those sentiments to the pollsters.

    Thus was born again the meme of The Angry Left – which in this case, may have been an accurate representation of those early voters.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  53. Tell that to McCain’s first wife and watch her chuckle, noyk.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  54. Dennis Miller summed it up nicely for McCain. Just go out and tell the audience, “I’ll kill terrorists, I’ll cut the pork”.

    It may be the soundest plan yet given that McCain has trouble articulating coherent arguments and staying on point.

    Dana (658c17)


  55. I think McCaun should just shut up and take Palin back to Alaska where he found her , Palin was his GREAT defeat !!! I would have voted for him , but not now with that woman just a heart beat away from being President..
    Obama08

    Anna (6afa35)

  56. Tell that to McCain’s first wife and watch her chuckle, noyk.

    Comment by snuffles — 10/15/2008 @ 5:49 pm

    Good rejoinder – and am very not cool with that solemn promise he broke 30 years ago (on a sick wife no less), FTR. (That said, I would just point out that his former wife has herself pointed out they both were very changed people when he returned from captivity, and she supports him currently.) However, McCain, despite the wrong things he’s done in the past, isn’t the candidate in the current race who has the rep of indecisiveness, vacillation and disloyalty.

    It’s possible McCain could dump Palin tonight. Given what I’ve seen of him so far – esp his record over the last 30 yrs – IMO he won’t do it. We’ll see soon I guess.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  57. I think McCaun should just shut up and take Palin back to Alaska where he found her , Palin was his GREAT defeat !!! I would have voted for him , but not now with that woman just a heart beat away from being President..
    Obama08

    Comment by Anna — 10/15/2008 @ 5:55 pm

    I think your analysis of what Palin brings to the McCain campaign is poor.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  58. that woman

    Seriously?

    Dana (658c17)

  59. Just more astroturfing from Axelrod’s army of brain – dead zombies. We’ve already seen two posts with almost the exact same format at the beginning and at the end of the posts.

    I think McCaun should just shut up and take Palin back to Alaska where he found her

    That’s telling ’em, Einstein!

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  60. Well Dana I was being nice in calling her that . let me see now…….
    1. In a long-awaited 263-page report released by Alaska’s Legislative Council, investigator Stephen Branchflower said Mrs Palin was guilty of violating ethics rules for public officials.
    To me that proves she has NO rights to be Vice President.

    Anna (6afa35)

  61. And you think you are That’s telling ‘em, Einstein!

    Ger over it !!!!!!!!

    Anna (6afa35)

  62. I expect, as the recession deepens to depression somewhere around 2011, that the press will still be carrying water for Obama and the schools will be teaching that Bush and capitalism caused the misery.

    Luckily we will have Obama to lead us into the glorious socialist post-capitalist future.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  63. Anna–

    That report was written and researched by ONE PERSON. And it’s sole conclusion: that the Governor used her influence to try to get a cop fired “just because” he tasered children, drank in his patrol car and threatened other bar customers with arrest when they objected to his drunken behavior.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  64. Then you obviously had no problem with John McCain referring to Obama as that one, right?

    May I quote from Beldar:

    “The Branchflower Report is a series of guesses and insupportable conclusions drawn by exactly one guy, and it hasn’t been approved or adopted or endorsed by so much as a single sub-committee of the Alaska Legislature, much less any kind of commission, court, jury, or other proper adjudicatory body.”

    I encourage you to read his thorough and concise post at
    http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/134db782-50f0-42e5-8171-791804d9fbc1

    Also, do you really want to bring up ethics in regard to one being a VP in light Obama’s questionable ethics?

    Dana (658c17)

  65. McCain hit Obama on the plumber. Good job, John.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  66. Comment by Dana — 10/15/2008 @ 6:10 pm

    Thanks for linking. Had missed that entry by Hewitt. Interesting stuff, and answers some questions I’d had.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  67. NOYK, no dobut Anna is devouring his analysis right now! :)

    Dana (658c17)

  68. Obama is doing EXACTLY what I predicted he would, lovie . . . and McCain just called him on it (“I’m not President Bush. If you want to run against President Bush you should have run four years ago”).

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  69. Obama said that 100% of McCain’s ads are negative.

    If we were electing the best liar . . .

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  70. McCain doesn’t get it.

    He thinks he needs to distance himself from Bush and play nice to win.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  71. MD,

    I think McCain does have to play nice while he distances himself from Bush. I’m a little behind because I’m watching it on TiVo but, so far, I think he’s doing a good job. The first question was especially good for McCain because he hit Obama on Joe the plumber and “spreading the wealth.” Amazingly enough, Obama wasn’t ready for it.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  72. Hey! McCain brought up those god-awful tshirts about Palin. He’s ticked. Obama seemed peeved…

    Dana (658c17)

  73. Obama is great at rhetorical “rope-a-dope”.

    Palling-around with terrorists? YES!

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  74. Hitting him on ACORN. Go John, go!

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  75. Acorn, Rezco, Ayers, Raines, Rev. Wright; Seems Obama forgets who he has palled around with for 25 years!

    TC (0b9ca4)

  76. My god, McCain has wasted 20 minutes trying to prove Obama has questionable associations. Obama eviscerates him and makes him look like either a conspiracy theorist or a desperate loser.

    I warned you guys . . . nothing was said in the past 20 minutes that impressed anyone but the Republican base who’s pissed that Obama is ahead. Everyone else’s eyes glazed over when they heard that Ayers is currently a college professor.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  77. Obama on Biden: never forgot where he came from, fighting for the little guy, always fighting on behalf of the working families…that reminds me of someone else….

    Dana (658c17)

  78. “investing in the American people” — nice euphemism for socialism, Senator Obama.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  79. Amazing. Obama turns around Palin’s committment to special-needs children into a need for more spending — and McCain called him on it (‘Why is your solution always more government spending?’).

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  80. “Can’t drill our way out of the problem.”

    The Democrats surrender manifesto.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  81. “I believe in free trede, BUT . . .”

    There’s always a but, isn’t there, Barack?

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  82. He just cannot help but smirk.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  83. Imagine how much would be flowing today, if we had started drilling when the subject first come up, but shot down because it would be ten years before it flowed from the new wells!

    BTW, three years ago my valley produced ZERO oil, today we produce about 1000 barrels a day.

    TC (0b9ca4)

  84. Mandating fuel-efficient cars . . . Michael Medved is throwing bricks at his TV screen right now.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  85. Turning the federal govt into the country’s largest HMO — WHILE cutting the bureacuracy.

    Talk about a fantasy.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  86. “bureaucracy”

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  87. Now Obama is rewriting his health care “plan” on the fly and pretending it was his plan all along.

    Obama has changed every single policy position repeatedly over the last 9 months.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  88. “Senator Government” — A great slip on McCain’s part!

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  89. Yeah I liked the “senator government” comment too. McCain did OK on describing his health care plan. Sombody needs to explain to the American public that unraveling the employer-based health insurance system is a feature, not a bug of McCain’s plan. That’s where the light bulbs will really go on.

    But it’s definitely his strongest moment in the debate so far.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  90. Re: SCOTUS justice appointments, Obama went straight to the word “fairness”. Read into that “equality”.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  91. McCain is, IMHO, wrong to tax company provided health care plans!

    From a business standpoint, currently biz deducts these costs from their income, employees get a benny at no additional cost, biz get another deduction.

    win/win

    I think employers will/would stop providing anything outside of putting a group together to help employees to get their own insurance.

    TC (0b9ca4)

  92. Really? Calling someone “senator government” to me is an indication of not being able to keeping rattling thoughts in mind well enough to express them in proper order. You can set the bar low enough to find this funny or admirable but coming from someone who has been in the government and senator for so long I think you are fishing; McCain is one of the few people who is comfortable addressing people as Senator from day to day who should be able to get it right even when rattled.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  93. His solution to EVERYTHING is to spend more federal money on it.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  94. Bob Schieffer has done a good job. A newsman worthy of a good deal of respect, I’d say.

    [Okay, some of his comments at the end of his Face The Nation broadcasts are a little loopy, but he’s still one of the good ones.]

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  95. McCain has a grand opportunity to mention the Annenberg Challenge! It’s in your wheelhouse, buddy! SWING! S-W-I-N-G!!!!

    L.N. Smithee (ef0fa7)

  96. No! No! No! Maddoggit, hammer him on CAC’s failure on the followup!

    L.N. Smithee (ef0fa7)

  97. McCain > Obama on elementary/secondary education.

    McCain=Obama on post-secondary (and they’re both dead wrong).

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  98. Re: #91 – I take back what I said about you sometimes making rational statements. We are not searching for perfection, we are not electing a Pope or a saint. It was a faux pas that made a funny point in spite of itself.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  99. He hit Obama on the Annenberg Challenge early on.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  100. CAC is BO’s only executive experience and he blew it! Mention it!

    L.N. Smithee (ef0fa7)

  101. Schieffer did an atrocious job. He did everything he could to dampen any heat that developed. He interrupted JSM several times to ask for a clarification. Then, instead of fleshing out a deeper understanding about direct differences, he insists on moving forward to “climate change” and “education.”

    Terrible.

    Ed (f58dc1)

  102. Icy: no question Schieffer is the best moderator to date. It’s an attitude that I guess isn’t being taught anymore, judging by what you see switching between FoxNews and MSNBC and being either disgusted by the other side or embarrassed for your own side by what you see.

    I think he is a moderate liberal by temperate, but if he were a moderate conservative I’d be happy to see him do any debate. He’s not there to draw attention to himself or embarrass anyone, he’s there to to make the candidates speak for themselves.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  103. Good closing statement by McCain — because he didn’t mention Obama once. Focused on himself and his history, and on the reasons for small government. Best thing he could have done.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  104. And AGAIN he plays the “Bush’s 3rd term, invest in Americans” meme.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  105. That’s right, Ed. He kept them within a structure, without acting like a bored headmaster such as Tom Brokaw.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  106. Best debate. Obama was flat. Schieffer kept them largely on task. Sitting them close together worked well.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  107. The Forehead said McCain’s personal reactions looked like Grumpy McNasty – Blow Me Forehead – Keep the angry meme going dickwad – Obama sucked.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  108. This was the debate where, as expected, I agreed with McCain on virtually all domestic policy issues. It was actually somewhat heartbreaking at the end, when he got up and was obviously nervous trying to get around the table to shake hands with Bob Schaeffer. He realizes that this is quite possibly his last debate ever, and yet his main concern is telling Obama he did a good job, and shaking hands with the host. Obviously a nice guy.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  109. McCain did OK on describing his health care plan. Sombody needs to explain to the American public that unraveling the employer-based health insurance system is a feature, not a bug of McCain’s plan. That’s where the light bulbs will really go on.

    But it’s definitely his strongest moment in the debate so far.

    Comment by Phil

    Phil, there may be hope for you yet. I thought he did a poor job of explaining his health plan since he didn’t make the point that the 12,000 dollars Obama and Biden are talking about becomes INCOME to the worker.

    He also missed a chance on the CAC but, all in all, I thought he did pretty well. I thought he did well bringing up Lewis’ lunatic moment when the subject of “hate” at Palin rallies came up.

    Joe the plumber is the most famous plumber in America tonight.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  110. Like I said somewhere above in this thread. (Read comment #40, Comment by love2008 — 10/15/2008 ) McCain did great. But he began to plummet the moment he brought up Ayers. That was his archilles heel. That gave Obama the advantage to get back in the game. Going negative has not and will not help. Americans just don’t care about Ayers and co. On the whole, they were even. And that’s not good for McCain.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  111. So, Baracky really did not stray from his pat stump speech answers that he recites on the campaign trail, and in the first two debates.

    100% of McCain’s ads have been negative? 100%? That is a demonstrable falsehood, one that he asserted, and then asserted it again as true.

    McCain still did not do what he needed to do.

    JD (f7900a)

  112. Obama wants to disagree while not being disagreeable. Yet he has spent more money on negative ads than any political campaign in the history of our democracy.

    JD (f7900a)

  113. At this point, 85% say Obama won this debate according to an MSNBC online survey.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  114. Anybody want to play a game of catch? There’s alot of astroturf in here tonight.

    liontooth (0edfdb)

  115. JD 110: Obama has spent more money on ads than any political campaign in the history of our democracy, I agree, but I need documentation before I accept he has spent more money on negative ads.

    McCain has gone almost 100% negative by campaign admission for the last two weeks or so. Obama has kept the negative ads in the less than 40% range.

    I can google this to support it, but since you were the one to assert that Obama has spent more money on negative ads than any political campaign in the history of our democracy, I would like to see you try to support that first with credible sources.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  116. JD, of course Obama has run negative ads. You want him to ignore the swift-boating and loose like Kerry? (Oh, don’t answer that.) The difference is, Obama has run good negative ads. There are good ones and bad ones. People have learned the difference.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  117. McCain’s main problem today was that he didn’t realise that majority of Americans have begun to log in unto Obama. That they see him as cool-headed and articulate. He also didn’t realise that this debate was not about Obama. it was about him. By continuing to attack Obama he was not helping himself. He needed to cash into the mood of a growing number of Americans about Obama. This was actually more of a personality contest and he again was not able to put away that his angry persona.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  118. 85% say Obama won this debate according to an MSNBC online survey

    And in other news, 85% of crackpots still think Nor Laup should be President.

    If Baracky is only getting 85% at MSNBC, his poll riggers must have the night off, or he did really poorly tonight.

    JD (f7900a)

  119. I don’t want anyone to “loose like Kerry”. Although I admit that I don’t know what “loose like Kerry” means. Is it about being ‘loose with the truth’? If so, Obama has already gone down that road.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  120. Comment by Icy Truth — 10/15/2008 @ 8:22 pm
    Icy, do you think bringing in and pursuing Ayers was a smart thing for McCain to do?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  121. Aplomb – Even Baracky did not dispute McCain pointing that out to him. He just deftly changed the subject to the utter falsehood that McCain’s ads are 100% negative, which is simply not the case.

    Obama is spending unprecedented amounts of money on ads, period — negative or otherwise. Obama is outspending McCain and the Republican Party by more than 2-to-1 in presidential ads. At one point in August, 90 percent of the ads Obama was airing were against McCain. A study conducted at the University of Wisconsin-Madison found that about 34 percent of Obama’s ads are now negative.

    JD (f7900a)

  122. JD, that’s the only semi-instant poll I know of, so I mentioned it. Does anyone know of any other polls – or maybe you would rather not know?

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  123. Anything that plants a seed of doubt in the mind of an undecided voter is a good thing, love.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  124. One day I will learn to spell the word “lose.” I did that the other day. Crap.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  125. Lovey – He didn’t hit Ayers hard enough or the right way. People don’t know who Obama really is and Obama doesn’t help with lack of transparency about his background. He could have brought in revisions Obama has had to make about his descriptions about his relationships with Wright, Ayers, ACORN and Rezko as examples.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  126. I think McCain does have to play nice while he distances himself from Bush. I’m a little behind because I’m watching it on TiVo but, so far, I think he’s doing a good job. The first question was especially good for McCain because he hit Obama on Joe the plumber and “spreading the wealth.” Amazingly enough, Obama wasn’t ready for it. Comment by DRJ — 10/15/2008 @ 6:34 pm

    Just back, let me explain what I mean.

    Obama talks about “8 years of failed economic policies under George Bush”…
    McCain replies, “Let’s review a bit of history; in 2001 when George Bush came into office we were on the verge of a recession related to the tech bubble bursting. Not Bush’s fault, not Clinton’s fault.
    By 2004 the Democratic talking point was the “jobless recovery”. Well, after the election the jobs appeared.
    Now the economy has serious issues. These issues have manifested in the last 2 years, 2 years of a Democratically controlled House and Senate. At the center of the problem has been the subprime mortgage crisis, a crisis nurtured by fannie and freddy while they gave more money to Sen. Dodd and Sen. Obama than anyone else. In fact, at earlier debates Sen. Obama and Sen. Biden tried to blame the problem on me because I favor, in general, less government regulation. But I am very surprised they didn’t remember that in 200_ and again in 200_ I was the one who spoke out on f+f, and you and your colleagues blocked any reform on oversight.”

    In doing so he puts the issue back where it belongs, on the dems. I agree his comment about “If you want to run against George Bush you should have run 4 years ago” was a good one, but I think McCain reflexively protects himself by saying, “I’m not one of those repubs.”

    An additional point. A doctor can be accused of being “negative” when telling a pt they have cancer and needs to “start treatment immediately or else”, but it’s the truth. Obama’s history of collaboration with Ayers over many years is the truth, is important, and needs to be clarified for the public, especially when he continues to lie about it. McCain did the nice point by bringing up the fact that Obama was on a second board with Ayers, which Obama had never volunteered*, a board which gave lots of money to ACORN.

    *Saying that he was on “a board” with Ayers was misleading, at best.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  127. So, you can go look at the Wisconsin Advertising Project, or the study from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Aplomb.

    JD (f7900a)

  128. Does anyone know of any other polls – or maybe you would rather not know?

    Comment by Psyberian — 10/15/2008 @ 8:26 pm

    There’s a new post by DRJ with another poll just now on the main page. Quite a spread in that one too.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  129. “Does anyone know of any other polls – or maybe you would rather not know?”

    CNN’s instant polls of course show Obama killed McCain across virtually every metric.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  130. snuffles wrote: With Palin on his ticket, even George Washington would have lost.

    George Washington didn’t have a running mate; there was no such thing at the time. If there was, Palin couldn’t be Washington’s because she is a woman and couldn’t vote.

    But YOU’RE the smart one, not Palin. Riiiight.

    L.N. Smithee (ef0fa7)

  131. I did not see Drew Griffin make an appearance on CNN.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  132. Icy, do you think bringing in and pursuing Ayers was a smart thing for McCain to do?

    This is not a very fair representation of what happened. Sen. McCain did not bring it up. The moderator asked specifically about it in the context of negative campaigning. If memory serves, McCain gave his initial answer, and a follow up, before sneaking it in towards the end of another follow-up.

    So, when lovie says that McCain brought up Ayers and pursued it, it is clear that she did not watch the debate.

    JD (f7900a)

  133. While you all are arguing about negative ads, a negative Obama ad airs — the one that says “Obama’s plan offers the middle-class 3 times as much in tax cuts compared to McCain’s plan”; it features a deliberately unflattering photo of McCain looking, you guessed it, angry.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  134. Icy, do you think bringing in and pursuing Ayers was a smart thing for McCain to do?

    Comment by love2008

    Yes, I think Obama has not closed the deal. One of the Luntz focus group said he is not voting for the best debater. This is really close and McCain did as well as he could have, given the MSM cocoon around Obama. We will see. I think it is far too close to call.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  135. Obama is kicking butt in msnbc online survey? Big effin’ whoop- McCain is around 90% at littlegreenfootballs. I bet the Messiah had a landslide in the fever swamps of DU/Kos/Moron.org/codepinko/Huff. A bigger question to me is why certain conservatives seem enthralled with Obama now. Is Chas. Krauthammer losing it, given his comment that Obama won tonight?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  136. Drudge has a poll:

    McCain – 78,557 – 73%
    Obama – 27,117 – 25%

    So does AOL:

    McCain – 48,684 – 48%
    Obama – 47,043 – 47%

    DRJ (c953ab)

  137. So, when lovie says that McCain brought up Ayers and pursued it, it is clear that she did not watch the debate.

    Comment by JD — 10/15/2008 @ 8:33 pm

    Well…perhaps love2008 did watch the debate. IYKWIMAITYD.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  138. no one you know – The only debate where her version of the events occurred was in her head.

    JD (f7900a)

  139. IYKWIMAITYD

    What does this mean?

    JD (f7900a)

  140. Sorry ’bout that. webspeak for “if you know what I mean and I think you do”

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  141. DRJ, do you actually consider Drudge and AOL legitimate sources of middle-America polling?

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  142. majority of Americans have begun to log in unto Obama.

    — Adding a bit of biblicalese to your worship, are you lovie?

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  143. I’ll answer.

    Yes.

    Do you know the volume at Drudge ?

    Mike K (2cf494)

  144. Drudge has a poll:

    McCain – 78,557 – 73%
    Obama – 27,117 – 25%

    So does AOL:

    McCain – 48,684 – 48%
    Obama – 47,043 – 47%

    Comment by DRJ — 10/15/2008 @ 8:37 pm

    Comment by Psyberian — 10/15/2008 @ 8:47 pm

    Well…am sure Time and Newsweek and CNN will poll and Obama will be on top by a big margin. I suppose online polling has the immediacy factor but it’s hard (for me anyway) to trust most any of them, much as I’d like to believe the Drudge #s, for example.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  145. Angry, angry JD. Just like McCain. Do you ever laugh? :)

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  146. Volume doesn’t matter, Mike K, in a poll as much as quality does.
    Now I’ll concede that MSNBC’s may be somewhat exaggerated, but it ain’t no ultra-left wing site or anything. Drudge is for far-right news for the most part. I have no idea what to think of AOL – but I doubt its polls are accurate.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  147. noyk – If you meant that you were thinking that lovie mischaracterized the event, then yes …

    Drudge and AOL are far more representative of middle America than MSNBC, psyberian.

    First off, any online poll is a self-selected sample. Couple that with the fact that those that turn in to watch Olbergasm and Madcow are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the Left of middle America, I cannot see how any sentient person would think that their numbers reflect the views of the population as a whole, much less middle America.

    JD (f7900a)

  148. I am not angry. I am a happy person, lovie. You frustrate me with your dishonesty, but that does not make me angry. Try again.

    MSNBC’s may be somewhat exaggerated, but it ain’t no ultra-left wing site or anything. Drudge is for far-right news for the most part

    So, Drudge is far right, but MSNBC is middle-of-the-road. That says more about where you are in the political spectrum than it does about anything else.

    JD (f7900a)

  149. Do you ever laugh?

    Constantly. At you.

    EW1(SG) (baadb3)

  150. I would guess the AOL poll would be a relatively balanced cross section of the public, which is encouraging.

    FWIW, IMHO, the last of the Chronicles of Narnia series by C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle, is a wonderful description of how half-truth’s sway public opinion into disaster- but it has an impressive ending.

    We will see what happens from here on out. If Obama’s lies on Joe the plumber and the Infant Born Alive Act get traction, along with the mention of a second board with Ayers giving $$ to ACORN, the ultimate outcome of the debate may be noteworthy.

    A few weeks ago it seemed that the Dems stand on energy/ don’t drill was a sure winner for the Repubs. But Bush succeeded in pulling the rug out from under the speculators in pushing for opening up areas for drilling, resulting in a drop in the oil price. Now gas is almost back at $3.00 and still dropping. But, the MSM gives 100% credit to decreased demand. Will anyone remember that Obama and company said opening ares up for exploration would have “NO Effect”?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  151. Psyberian,

    I don’t think instant online polls are reliable regardless of the source, but you asked for other instant polls and I gave you some.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  152. Obama takes it again. The people have spoken, again.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  153. Comment by JD — 10/15/2008 @ 8:57 pm

    Yes, that’s what I meant – if she did watch it she knows how it happened.

    Now I’ll concede that MSNBC’s may be somewhat exaggerated, but it ain’t no ultra-left wing site or anything. Drudge is for far-right news for the most part. I have no idea what to think of AOL – but I doubt its polls are accurate.

    Comment by Psyberian — 10/15/2008 @ 8:54 pm

    Do agree about MSNBC, but would just point out about Drudge that though it may lean to the right in its reporting, its readership is all over the map politically. Because of its high linkability factor of both liberal and conservative sources (basically a gateway with right leaning headlies) , ease of getting lots of info at once and quick turnover of news, I read somewhere that many, many journalists, for example, check Drudge first and/or all through the day.

    So even though self selecting polls (ie online ones) aren’t scientifically valid, I’d trust a Drudge poll a bit over a CNN poll, say. But neither one that much. :)

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  154. Don’t forget MSNBC’s rightist Scarlborah all morning, every morning JD. I swear, almost every word that comes out of that man’s mouth is so full of spin, you’d think he was running for office (again).

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  155. 146 msnbc ain’t no ultra-left wing site? Indubitably- it and CNN, NBC, CBS skew to the right…in your alternative universe. I would have liked the GOP to have negotiated a debate on Fox with Brit Hume moderating. Of course the pussified dems wouldn’t even debate one another on Fox.
    Private corporations can lean whichever way they want, but it burns some of our butts that we are forced through our taxes to support left PBS and NPR.
    About the calls for killing someone, palin is a c***, etc. why is it no liberals vilify pondscum such as airhead america’s Randi Rhodes for calling for assassination of Dubya? Linerals appear able to say or do whatever the hell they wish, with no consquences. And the GOP fears being called racist or homophobic and thus avoids raising some pertinent issues.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  156. headlies = headlines. A most inconvenient typo, no, Pysberian? 😛

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  157. Lovey – I would wager that JD is not an angry person. The only portion of the debate where I saw McCain get a little excited was over the negative campaigning portion. I do not understand where all the talk about his anger tonight from commentators was coming from. It seems they just want to perpetuate a meme even though it wasn’t there.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  158. I had a terrible thought tonight, watching the debate, about the future. Obama looked really flustered about the Ayers question, the “spread he wealth” question, and others. McCain is going to hammer home these points, and the media now cannot ignore them. And then I thought, McCain might actually win!

    We tho are in a no-win situation. Bush has semi-nationalized the banking and mortgage industries, and both candidates agree with a socialist solution to the problem. If Obama wins, the market will crash and stay there and he will socialize health care too. It will be decades before we dig out from this mess and regain our individual liberty. If Obama loses, he will become a martyr and his cult will grow. He still stand back and let it grow. It will get ugly.

    Either way, it will be a tough four years.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  159. “Don’t forget MSNBC’s rightist Scarlborah all morning, every morning JD.”

    Psyberian – But he’s got that commie ditzbrain Mika sitting next to him to even things out.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  160. Do you ever laugh?

    Constantly. At you.

    Comment by EW1(SG) — 10/15/2008 @ 9:00 pm
    Sometimes I do laugh at myself. But generally, I think I am very happy. I can laugh at myself and not take things too seriously. So, keep laughing.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  161. dalyrocks, Mika doesn’t do anything but agree with him half the time and she’s more of a decoration than anything on that show – she barely opens her mouth.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  162. lovie – When do you plan on correcting your “mischaracterization” in #120?

    JD (f7900a)

  163. Arguing that because Scarborough is on MSNBC somehow makes them not far Left of center is laughable. On its face. But, lets compare him to the rest of their lineup. Andrea Mitchell. Chris Mathews. Keith Olbergasm. Rachel Madcow. Eugene Robinson. Laurence O’Donnell. David Gregory. Schuster. Even if you are willing to call Pat Buchanon a conservative, which he is not, it is clearly skewed, badly to the Left in both number and degree.

    JD (f7900a)

  164. JD, didn’t McCain, or his campaign managers, say that he was going to bring up Ayers before the debate anyway? So I believe that he would have worked Ayers in regardless of whether he was questioned about it.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  165. That is not what lovie said, psyberian.

    And yes, McCain did say that, but watching the debate, even when directly questioned about it, he gave an answer and at least 1, maybe 2 follow up answers before he said his name.

    JD (f7900a)

  166. And I suspect you are right, psyberian, but that is nothing but speculation since he did not bring it up, and appeared to only reluctantly go there after direct questioning about it.

    JD (f7900a)

  167. For 3 or 4 hours a day on MSNBC you get Morning Joe. Like it or not. That’s prime time in the morning for news. The only two left leaning shows are Rachael and Olberman – only two hours. The rest aren’t on the left at all – especially not Andrea Mitchell.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  168. McCain did pursue the Ayers issue when he went back to bring up Ayers and referred to how Sen Clinton used it against Obama during the primary debates. Then nailed it when he said something like “we need to know about the relationship Obama had with Ayers..” Or something to that effect. So yes I watched the whole debate. And I think that was where McCain began to lose control and appeared grumpy and petty and angry. From that point I think he just muddled through. Lesson: Attacking Obama does not work. He needed to link himself more to Obama, personality wise. And try to show that he too can be presidential, charming, above the fray and articulate. He also needed to show that he liked Obama. I think McCain should have hit Obama off tonight. He was, during the first 30mins. But ceded it to Obama by allowing Obama to look bigger and not petty. This should have been McCain’s night. But it wasn’t.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  169. Comment by JD — 10/15/2008 @ 9:15 pm

    JD, when I said McCain brought up Ayers, (read my last post. #168) I meant going to dig out that name and infusing it into the discussion. It was a temptation he couldn’t resist.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  170. The only two left leaning shows are Rachael and Olberman – only two hours.

    Mathews is on the Left.
    Andrea Mitchell is on the Left.
    Schuster is on the Left.
    Gregory is on the Left.
    Eugene Robinson is on the Left.

    Morning Joe averages around 250,000 viewers in its entire 4-hour show, which is significantly less than their prime time line-up.

    Never mind. If you are arguing that a little watched morning news show on MSNBC somehow balances out their waaaaaaaaaaaaaay Left programming throughout the rest of the day, making them middle of the road, then we live in different solar systems.

    JD (f7900a)

  171. “…especially not Andrea Mitchell.”

    The only conservative thing that comes out of Andrea Mitchell’s mouth are defenses of her husband.

    Another Drew (736d69)

  172. If you think Obama is charming and above the fray, well, good luck sister.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  173. It’s impossible to convince the rabid right that Ayers and ACORN and Wright are a bad idea. For the record, tonight I am truly torn, because McCain really reminded me how much more I agree with him on domestic economic issues than I do with Obama. Education, health care, taxes — he beat Obama on all three. And given the state the economy is in right now, that matters.

    But every time he started bringing up Ayers or any of the other neocon attack bullshit, I lost interest. Worse, it reminded me of the privacy-invading, egotistical, we’re-always-right-and-you-hate-America attitude of the current administration.

    Fortunately for him, he finished very strong, with education and a good closing speech that emphasized humility. This election just got a lot harder for me, because McCain impressed me when he wasn’t attacking. The truth is, I’m mostly voting for Obama because I’m pissed at the Republican party, not because I think the Democrats will be better, really. What a sad state of affairs we’re in.

    Phil (3b1633)

  174. McCain did pursue the Ayers issue when he went back to bring up Ayers and referred to how Sen Clinton used it against Obama during the primary debates. Then nailed it when he said something like “we need to know about the relationship Obama had with Ayers..”

    Again, a “mischaracterization”. The question posed by the moderator specifically address Bill Ayers. McCain did not bring it up, and certainly did not vigorously go after it. He did not even bring it up in his direct answer to the question.

    JD, when I said McCain brought up Ayers, (read my last post. #168) I meant going to dig out that name and infusing it into the discussion.

    Which is still a “mischaraterization”. Bob Scheiffer specifically introduced Bill Ayers into the debate with his question. Actually, looking at the transcript, Barack is the first of the candidates to directly addres this when he says,

    OBAMA: But when people suggest that I pal around with terrorists,

    This was a “mischaracterization” on Baracky’s part as well.

    And 100 percent, John, of your ads — 100 percent of them have been negative.

    MCCAIN: It’s not true.

    OBAMA: It absolutely is true.

    Though the stump speech explanations for Ayers and ACORN were right up there with that one …

    JD (f7900a)

  175. But every time he started bringing up Ayers

    Just like lovie, this is a fabrication. It was directly asked in the question, and in fact, as pointed out above, Barack specifically addressed that before McCain did.

    JD (f7900a)

  176. JD – People need reminding that prosperity is the enemy of socialism-marxism. Joe the Plumber was the perfect example for that. Baracky is going to share your wealth. He doesn’t want you to be prosperous because then we would have too many “haves” in this country and too many “have nots.” The only problem he’s got to run into is when he runs out of people to pay taxes.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  177. The great Uniter can’t even get the Clintons on board – – his dirty campaign tactics during the primaries were so over the top.

    ‘Charming’ is basically not antogonizing people. Obama’s evasiveness and dreams of ‘big government’ and rule-by-1 are obvious.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  178. Comment by Phil — 10/15/2008 @ 9:47 pm

    This used to be known as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Because you’re pissed at GWB, 290M Americans get to take it in the shorts.

    Thank you for your concern for your fellow man.

    Another Drew (736d69)

  179. Oh no, Lovey is not going to like the fact that the Secret Service investigated and found no one other than the reporter who heard someone shout “kill him” at a Palin rally.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  180. The fact that most of the left can only comment on McCain’s “anger” is a good sign. They know that Obama did not win on issues, so they are looking for a silver lining.

    Bfidler (e8f3cb)

  181. The SS is obviously in-the-bag for the Rethuglican, neo-con, fundie Fascists.

    Another Drew (736d69)

  182. These boondoggles are over, right? I can go back to just ignoring the regular boring TV line up, right? I think I’ll take up rug latch hooking again, until 2012, unless class warfare turns into a hot war before then.

    PCD (7fe637)

  183. The Bobo posts this:

    I think I am very happy. I can laugh at myself and not take things too seriously. So, keep laughing.

    But the Bobo also posted this, less than four hours previously:

    Say it to my face, cowards. Go on. Look me in the eye and say it.

    The Bobo looks to be in serious need of massive amounts of lithium.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  184. Did lovie correct her “mischaracterization” yet?

    JD (f7900a)

  185. Wouldn’t you look angry if you were running against a man who has lied since day one of this campaign? Obama continues to deny the extent of his involvement with Ayers, Rev. Wright and ACORN, just to name a few of his questionable associations. McCain fought and bled for this country and he is afraid of the thought of a person like Obama running it. Obama is just another polished example of the leftist illuminati that wants to enable the lazy lower class citizens who won’t take responsibility for themselves.

    Jeff (e00ed5)

  186. In the book “1984” Winston learns about the technique of keeping two contradictory ideas in ones head while believing them both to be true!
    Well, well isnt that just like Republican/Conservatives!

    Consider. McCain tell us the last eight years “haven’t been so good” and does everything in his power to run away from George Bush and here we find people who both fiercely support Bush and his policies, and yet want to vote for the man who says they are wrong and wants to change them at the same time!

    Bottom line is those crackpots that hijacked the Republican party have nothing to run on. No record of achievement. Nothing but the old Herr Rove playbook of smear and lie. Same kinds of people that yelled “Dirty Jew” in Germany and “N…” in the 60s are back at it again spreading hate and lies.

    Why is it you ignore the Alaskan Independence Party and their hate for the US which Sarah Palin is part of and yet eagerly believe the ugliest and most hateful things said with the slightest of justifications and which no amount of explanation will satisfy you?. Its got to be racism that you are too cowardly even to admit to yourself. You would just as soon trust this county to a dead head, ignorant bullshitter like Sarah Palin than elect a Democrat much less a black one.

    VietnamEraVet (543dfe)

  187. Why is it you ignore the Alaskan Independence Party and their hate for the US which Sarah Palin is part of and yet eagerly believe the ugliest and most hateful things said with the slightest of justifications and which no amount of explanation will satisfy you?. Its got to be racism that you are too cowardly even to admit to yourself. You would just as soon trust this county to a dead head, ignorant bullshitter like Sarah Palin than elect a Democrat much less a black one.

    Comment by VietnamEraVet — 10/16/2008 @ 6:28 pm

    Well, VietnamEraVet,
    First of all, thank you for your service to our country. All due respect, let me summarize my opinion of your comment:

    –contains ignoring of evidence against Obama’s lack of qualifications for President – check
    –contains slander of Sarah Palin – check
    –contains baseless insinuations of racism – check

    Thanks for your thoughts, VietnamEraVet. I don’t agree at all. And please stop calling us all probable racists. Thanks.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  188. the fact that anyone is praising McCain for his performance in the third debate proves that he and Palin have lowered people’s expectations down to nothing (don’t forget, the VP debates were a tie!)

    movie fan (5cc02e)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.9161 secs.