Patterico's Pontifications

10/10/2008

My Letter to the Readers’ Rep About the L.A. Times’s Quotation of an Inaccurate Transcript

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 1:29 pm

I just sent this to the Readers’ Rep:

Jamie,

A story I saw on the Times‘s website yesterday contains the following passage:

Palin told Fox’s Sean Hannity, in a transcript provided by the network: “And — not only those terrorist activities that Bill Ayers was involved in, but the questions need to be asked, I believe, when did Barack Obama know of these activities? We’ve heard so many confliction stories and flip-flop answers about when he knew the guy, did he realize that he knocked off his political career in the guy’s living room?”

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccain9-2008oct09,0,4409350.story

Wow, Sarah Palin really sounds inarticulate there. It’s almost enough to make you wonder whether she actually sounded that silly.

Turns out she didn’t.

Had reporter Peter Nicholas bothered to watch the segment, he would have seen that this transcript is completely inaccurate. Those seemingly inarticulate quotes about “confliction stories” and how Obama “knocked off” his political career in Ayers’s living room — they never happened. Those words did not come out of Sarah Palin’s mouth. I watched the segment. It’s Part 3 at this Web address:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,435901,00.html

Here is what Palin actually said:

And — not only those atrocious activities that Bill Ayers was involved in, but the questions need to be asked, I believe, when did Barack Obama know of his activities? We’ve heard so many conflicting stories and flip-flopped answers about when he knew the guy, did he realize that he kicked off his political career in the guy’s living room, first it was yes and then it was no . . .

Here are the differences:

And — not only those terrorist atrocious activities that Bill Ayers was involved in, but the questions need to be asked, I believe, when did Barack Obama know of these his activities? We’ve heard so many confliction conflicting stories and flip-flop flip-flopped answers about when he knew the guy, did he realize that he knocked off kicked off his political career in the guy’s living room, first it was yes and then it was no . . .

It was easy for reporter Nicholas to dismiss Palin’s actual allegations by giving the seemingly inarticulate quote — the silliness of it seemingly speaks for itself! — and then giving a one-line characterization of a New York Times article about the relationship. Nicholas’s article would have been better if he had actually watched the segment, given the accurate quote, and then explored whether Palin was right. For balance, he could also have quoted CNN, which recently ran a segment in which the reporter said, and I quote, “the relationship between Obama and Ayers went much deeper, ran much longer, and was much more political than Obama said.” Nicholas could have pointed out that Obama’s camp initially claimed Obama had met Ayers at that coming-out at Ayers’s home — a claim that Obama later had to acknowledge was false, due to the emergence of documents unearthed in the interim.

But never mind that; I almost never write you to complain about pro-Democratic spin, or I’d be writing you much more often than I do. As you know, I generally bother you only when your paper gets facts wrong. Here, the quote is just wrong. Palin didn’t say the words that your newspaper attributed to her.

And yes, I know that your reporter accurately quoted the transcript. Please tell me that accurately quoting an inaccurate transcript does not meet your standards.

It would be really nice if you guys could correct this quickly. It’s quite simple: click the link, listen to the video, read what your reporter claimed Palin said, read what I’m telling you she actually said, and see who’s right. You could run a correction tomorrow.

Yours truly,

Patrick Frey

http://patterico.com

But of course, they won’t.

109 Responses to “My Letter to the Readers’ Rep About the L.A. Times’s Quotation of an Inaccurate Transcript”

  1. You might also want to send a letter to Fox News and tell them to hire a new transcriptionist. What’s the point of reading a transcript if you have to compare every word of it with the video?

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  2. As an ‘Ashamed Republican, No Guys – Seriously’, or ARNGS for short, let me say that this just goes to show what an embarrassment my Republican party has become. As a concerned Christian voter, I am shocked that Sarah Palin would foolishly start a sentence with ‘And’. Even more gobsmacking, however, is that Ms. Palin desperately clings to the delusion that “when did Barack Obama know of his activities?” constitutes a “questions” [sic].

    Let me add one important point that no one has probably heard–This woman will be a heartbeat away from the presidency! Not 7 heartbeats or even 4, just 1! That’s all it will take.

    I have been voting for Republicans since Abraham Lincoln, but this November I will gleefully and enthusiastically pulling the lever for the true conservative in this race–Barack Obama.

    Ashamed Republican, No Guys - Seriously (7900e3)

  3. Damn. In a moment of weakness, I bought one of their papers today after a 6 month dry spell.

    Maybe I’ll spend another 50 cents and put it back in the vending machine.

    TakeFive (7c6fd5)

  4. Ashamed Republican, you are no Republican and you are no Christian. You are an astroturfing Obamoron and you know it. Just knock it off. You look stupid.

    RD Walker (08d3de)

  5. Wow, apparently even Patterico is getting “concern trolls”, as the above commentor has accurately filled in the standard MadLib of commenting.

    Come to a conservative blog/article, introduce yourself as a lifelong member of the Republican party, mention how you are ashamed of the Republicans/conservatives, and then spit out whatever Obama campaign talking point you pick out of a hat.

    Seriously, everyone knows you and your fellow “ARNGS” are simply Democrats posting as “concerned conservatives”. Give up the astroturfing.

    THAT BEING SAID…

    What the real shame about this is, no one is really shocked. How sad is it that the media, the source where most of the population gets its news, is either a) completely inept, or b) deliberately modifying and sculpting the news? To me, this is the greater travesty than the mis-quoting itself. Even worse, I’ll be dead before they change it or issue an apology.

    conservativeinthecity (eb4691)

  6. Ashamed Republican…..damn your old. Voted for Lincoln eh? Too funny

    SH (7ae50f)

  7. By the way, we can all see how well the Ayers meme and other poop-throwing is paying off for the McCain campaign so far.

    If only American’s could get it through their thick skulls that our real problem is terrorism. We need a warrior president out there spending our money on weapons and soldiers, not someone who keeps getting distracted by the poor and the sick here in America.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  8. Phil ‘the deflector’ strikes again. According to him it isn’t about what the LAT did, it’s about what Fox News did.

    Personal responsibility — here, let’s all say it together: per-son-al re-spon-si-bil-i-ty. (We’ll work on due diligence next time. If I, who works a full-time job unrelated to newsgathering, could find the time to actually watch that interview (which I did) then the Dog Trainer could afford to have one person watch it (and, God forbid, maybe even TiVo it) in order to report the story from a more direct source. Website transcripts of TV shows are notoriously innaccurate; sometimes it looks like they were culled from the live closed-captioning text (which depending on the typist tend to be nearly unusable). If the LAT gets it wrong it is their fault.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  9. You could run a correction tomorrow.

    Patterico, that is a real knee slapper.
    Don’t you know how long it takes these to get through four layers of professional editors?
    I estimate a correction will take until November, 5th at the earliest.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  10. Uh, guys – ARNGS is being ironic.

    You need to visit Ace’s site a little more often.

    TakeFive (7c6fd5)

  11. ‘Nice try’ on redeeming yourself in #7, Phil.

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  12. Phil, I wonder how amazed you’ll be when Obama surrenders American sovereignty to the UN after the 1st or 2nd terrorist nuke hits us.

    I imagine the poor and the sick will be pretty hard hit by those nukes, but if you don’t believe me, you’ll be able to confirm that in the next day’s Nuked York Times.

    Evan3457 (56a249)

  13. By the way, what is the purpose of this correction you’re requesting? There don’t appear to be any facts wrong; this is just about correcting a transcriptionists typos.

    Not that typos aren’t annoying, but really, typos? You write a two-page letter for typos? Three weeks before the election? Surely you can find something more substantial to be outraged about.

    Nicholas could have pointed out that Obama’s camp initially claimed Obama had met Ayers at that coming-out at Ayers’s home — a claim that Obama later had to acknowledge was false, due to the emergence of documents unearthed in the interim.

    Then again, the McCain campaign has become utterly mired in details lately, as it sifts through the record over and over, hoping to find some detail, anything, that will make Obama look as unappealing as McCain is able to look without even trying.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  14. Neutered Yorkie Times?

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  15. Phil, I agree that it’s vitally important that we work here to take care of our poor.

    Which is precisely why a hard-left near-socialist like Barack Obama must not be elected President.

    Why, you ask? Because re-distribution of wealth doesn’t work. Economics, unlike politics, is not a zero-sum game. It is decidedly not true that “the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.” No, the truth is that the rich get richer, while the poor get richer as well.

    We’re never going to eradicate poverty entirely (and I’m not being pessimistic here; Jesus Christ himself said that in Matthew 26:11), so it would seem to me that the best way to help the poor out is to improve their situation as best as we can. Capitalism is, by far, the best system anyone has found to do just that.

    Chris (6733a5)

  16. Tony Rezko, Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, Khalid Al-Mansour, Raila Odinga…

    I know I’m forgetting a few of the Obama Cabinet©

    rhodeymark (6231e5)

  17. Furthermore, Chris, if the Obama supporters want to help poor people, all they need do is reach into their own pockets and spend their own money.

    After all, they insist that anyone who has more money obviously stole it from other people, so it would be just balancing out their universe to give everything they have to other people who are far more deserving.

    Isn’t that interesting? The Obama people scream about how we should help the poor…..but rather than opening their own wallets, they try to use the government to force other people to do it for them.

    North Dallas Thirty (efe6ff)

  18. And, Phil, if you can’t see how these “typos” are clearly inserted to make Palin look dumb, then you’re just not paying attention. Typos usually create misspellings; these change the word entirely. You have to willfully attempt to create these words to get to them from what Palin actually said.

    Chris (6733a5)

  19. this is just about correcting a transcriptionists [sic] typos

    – No, dishrag. It’s about the Dog Trainer NOT correcting them.

    But then, what should we expect from someone who writes “If only American’s could get it through their thick skulls,” incorrectly inserting an apostrophe into “Americans”? [And then making the opposite mistake for "transcriptionist's"; too funny.]

    Icy Truth (1468e4)

  20. For a small moment, I thought that the commenter @ #2 was our old friend JD attempting to pull our chain. However, on further reflection, I came to my senses and realized that not even JD could construct a comment that was that bad.

    It must be Patterico!

    Another Drew (e6d3fc)

  21. Evan, I just can’t imagine that having McCain singing “bomb bomb Iran” for four years, and similar such displays of diplomacy, is going to make us any less likely to get nuked by irate Islamic madmen. He’s just going to stoke Islamic fundamentalism and madness by reminding them on a daily basis how much they should be hating America.

    Of course the endgame for him and the neocons is to obliterate the middle east so Jesus can come and rapture us . . . so if that’s your goal, he’s your man.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  22. Because re-distribution of wealth doesn’t work.

    Yeah, those who have wealth always say that, until it’s their butts on the line. Then redistributing $700 billion or so works just great.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  23. Umm…let’s stick with correct definitions, please? This recent unpleasantness (which, incidentally, is virulently opposed by many conservatives, if not even most) has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth.

    Chris (6733a5)

  24. ARGNS
    lets drill there!I was a life-long republican/ till Adam gave up that rib!
    cannot tell a lie
    Palin is the BOMB!

    pdbuttons (359493)

  25. Icy, if I ever need a copy editor, you and Patterico are hired. I will never dispute that.

    But back to politics . . .

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  26. Let me add one important point that no one has probably heard–This woman will be a heartbeat away from the presidency! Not 7 heartbeats or even 4, just 1! That’s all it will take.

    On the other hand, if the Democrats win, then That One will be zero heartbeats away from the presidency!

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  27. On my sporadically updated blog, I detailed how the San Francisco Chronicle chose this as its Gov. Palin pull quote on the front page of last Friday’s post-Veep Debate edition:

    “It’s so obvious that I’m a Washington outsider and not used to the ways (sic) you guys operate.”

    L.N. Smithee (a0b21b)

  28. I’m going to go with straight incompetence rather than bias on this one. It doesn’t look like Fox has a transcript up for that part. I’m guessing they grabbed the Closed Captioning, called a transcript, and ran with it.

    Phelps (0013b0)

  29. Zero heartbeats…because he has no heart. His hunger will not be sated until all in his path are crushed, and all bow to the great and powerful Obama!

    Uhh…pay no attention to those terrorists behind the curtain! :)

    Chris (6733a5)

  30. He’s just going to stoke Islamic fundamentalism and madness by reminding them on a daily basis how much they should be hating America.

    Phil, if you think that Islamic fundamentalists hate America — or hate America more — because of the particular words or actions of American presidents, then you haven’t been paying attention for the past 29 years.

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  31. Phil, if you think that Islamic fundamentalists hate America — or hate America more — because of the particular words or actions of American presidents, then you haven’t been paying attention for the past 29 years.

    Right, I forgot — they just hate our freedom.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  32. Yes, Phil, that is correct (though you stumbled into it by tring to be sardonic).
    They hate your freedom to worship any religion, or no religion, as you please.
    They hate your freedom to wear, or not, what clothes you please.
    They hate your freedom for reading what books you please.
    They hate your freedom for watching which movies you please.
    In other words Phil, they hate you for being a member of a Civilization that prizes individual freedom and choice.

    Another Drew (e6d3fc)

  33. Can’t we all get along?!

    Bill Ayers (1b037c)

  34. Phil is hopeless but at least he keeps the obscenity down. The Washington Post has an interesting story about Palin today and I looked to see the point. She hired a PR person to help get publicity for the state’s side in negotiating the gas pipeline. I can’t figure out if the Post was disapproving or why they ran the story. To me, it makes her look sophisticated and efficient and savvy in dealing with the big oil companies.

    But that can’t be their intent, can it ?

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  35. Another Drew — I hadn’t seen that Osama bin Laden speech. I mean, the “we must attack America because they are free,” speech. Where is it?

    I’m not saying they don’t complain about America’s culture — obviously they think we’re immoral. But cleaning up American and making us all good muslims (or killing us all as retribution for our heathen behaviors) has never, from what I’ve seen, been the goal of terrorism — it’s always been directed at obtaining power for the radical Islamic leadership. Terrorist attacks are tactical, not just random attempts to obliterate democratic/capitalistic activities.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  36. I have been voting for Republicans since Abraham Lincoln, but this November I will gleefully and enthusiastically pulling the lever for the true conservative in this race–Barack Obama.

    Comment by Ashamed Republican, No Guys – Seriously

    Zombie?

    huerfano (ab9f92)

  37. What’s in your head?

    Sorry. Love that song.

    Chris (95a123)

  38. Phil – Do you see any fundamental conflicts between obtaining power for radical Islam and the maintenance of a democratic society such as the U.S.?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  39. Phil, I would suggest Zarkahwi’s remarks about democracy being incompatible with Islam as one example but, no doubt, you would require a recording of bin Laden.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  40. Do you see any fundamental conflicts between obtaining power for radical Islam and the maintenance of a democratic society such as the U.S.?

    No immediate ones, no. Besides, if there were, there are lots of much closer targets. With more people, for that matter. Take India, for example. Why isn’t India spending trillions of dollars fighting Islamic terrorists? They’ve got a democratic society right there within spitting distance of the radical muslims. They’ve got a lot more non-muslim people than the U.S. And talk about debauchery — have you seen some of those Bollywood movies? Why isn’t bin Laden unleashing his wrath on India?

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  41. Phil, read “The Looming Tower.” Then report back.

    Diffus (cb9f4f)

  42. Oh, grow up, Patrick.

    Metacom (b8c7e2)

  43. Please. I beg you!!

    Bill Ayers (1b037c)

  44. Why isn’t India spending trillions of dollars fighting Islamic terrorists?

    India is not only spending billions on fighting terrorists in the ME, they’ve been sending troops on sporadic missions into Pakistan and Afghanistan for years at this point. They also have quite a few problems with terrorism internally, and have been dealing with that problem for decades – this is a basic point that I find your ignorance about astonishing:

    http://www.indianembassy.org/new/parliament_dec_13_01.htm

    http://www.defenddemocracy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11771988&Itemid=355

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/12/INDIA.TMP

    Phil, do you actually read anything other than Kos for your news, or do the words for other sources seem too big for your brain? Jeebus.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  45. Oh, grow up, Patrick.

    Metamucil is hilarious.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  46. Right, I forgot — they just hate our freedom.

    Sure, Phil. Islamic fundamentalists planned and/or executed attacks on United States interests in 1979, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1998, and 2000 all because of American foreign policy and/or the words of the respective American presidents. Do they also plan attacks on Russia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Canada, and others because of American actions?

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  47. Now Phil is making excuses for Osama Bin Laden.

    Phil, you might want to do some research into what Bin Laden has said, rather than continue to make demands of others to ease your lack of education by providing easy links.

    Once you do, you will change course, as there is nothing Bin Laden has said that is defensible. His statement that the presence of the ‘infidel’ (US troops) in Saudi territory was the cause for his jihad was exposed as BS when the troops were pulled from that country and the jihad continued.

    The very fact that you hold Bin Laden as an exemplar for accurate announcements of his intentions exposes both your partisan campaigning and colossal inability to recognize the truth.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  48. “No immediate ones, no.”

    Gee Phil, I don’t know what to say. I guess that explains a lot. Can you point me to any countries in the world where people practicing radical Islam hold power which are also democratic societies like the United States?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  49. Diffus, I actually just read a few reviews of “The Looming Tower,” and will try pick it up. Looks like a great book.

    I’m assuming you want me to read it because of its description of the irrational, frightening hatred Al Quaeda founders and principals have for U.S. culture and norms. There’s a big difference between believing that ham-handed attempts to eradicate radical Islam only allow it to grow and flourish, and believing that radical Islam is not a scary, dangerous movement that threatens all who do not join it. Unfortunately, a lot of people equate the two.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  50. believing that ham-handed attempts to eradicate radical Islam only allow it to grow and flourish

    Just like Jimmy Carter did when the mullahs attacked our embassy in Iran in an act of war?

    Or when Charlie Wilson aided radical islamists against the Russian Army?

    Or when Ronald Reagan pulled out the troops after the barracks bombing in Beirut?

    Those over the top, ham handed attempts to eradicate radical islam?

    Even Bin Laden (your friend) says that America doing nothing in those instances proved that it was a ‘paper tiger’.

    Just how do you intend to prevent radical islam from forcing you to join it when you have limited your responses to non-confrontation?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  51. India is not only spending billions on fighting terrorists in the ME, they’ve been sending troops on sporadic missions into Pakistan and Afghanistan for years at this point.

    Pshaw . . . billions. Tell me about scale. How many billion a year? What percentage of GDP is spent fighting terrorism?

    Note that when Pakistan got nukes, even though it was right next door to India, and India could have utterly crushed it, India managed to reach a diplomatic solution. And it isn’t now living in utter humiliation as a “loser” because it didn’t unleash hell on the uppity muslims.

    I don’t understand whysome people think that the only possible responses to radical Islam are total global war, and absolute surrendur. You can’t just say “terrorism is bad, radical Islam is bad, and we will oppose it and prevent it when feasible.”

    Noooo . . . we have to make it the primary mission of America to eradicate the pablum of radical Islam from the face of the earth. Anything else, and we “lose” and the world is lunging at us, and we are not no longer a real country, and also a bunch of cows.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  52. Phil – You’re dodging your idiotic earlier response.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  53. “As an ‘Ashamed Republican, No Guys – Seriously’,”

    Obvious bullshit.

    Federal Dog (1404a2)

  54. Once you do, you will change course, as there is nothing Bin Laden has said that is defensible. His statement that the presence of the ‘infidel’ (US troops) in Saudi territory was the cause for his jihad was exposed as BS when the troops were pulled from that country and the jihad continued.

    Despite what some people claim, I am not defending bin Laden or any of the other scary radical Islamic leaders.

    Sure, there are the madmen like bin Laden — the leaders of the terrorists. Who, coincidentally, don’t do suicide bombing themselves, and actually seem to be very hard to kill.

    But then there are their armies, who are easy to kill, and are getting mowed down all the time, only to be replaced by more canon foder.

    How do these non-suicidal madmen raise these suicidal armies? Where do they keep finding these willing suicide bombers and soldiers?

    If it was just about the madmen, this war on terror wouldn’t be nearly so complicated.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  55. Which response, daily?

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  56. Phil – India has the third largest Muslim population in the world behind Indonesia and Pakistan. Waging war on it’s own people might create a few problems in it’s own hood. Trftrsh your memory about the creation of Pockeestan.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  57. “Which response, daily?”

    So many choices, Phil, it’ll take me a while to decide.

    Have you identified that democratic society under radical islamic power for me yet?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  58. O.K.: I’m an idiot. I’ve seen so much partisan crap posted by ostensible “Ashamed Republicans, No Guys – Seriously,” that I thought this was yet more of it.

    Federal Dog (1404a2)

  59. “How do these non-suicidal madmen raise these suicidal armies?”

    Where do Obama and other lefties find their followers?

    Some people are born dumb, other people grow into it.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  60. India has the third largest Muslim population in the world behind Indonesia and Pakistan. . Waging war on it’s own people might create a few problems in it’s own hood. .

    We’re getting off topic here. The point is India is a secular democratic society, with a broad diversity of religious beliefs. From post 38:

    Do you see any fundamental conflicts between obtaining power for radical Islam and the maintenance of a democratic society such as the U.S.?

    If being a secular democracy, by itself, is the reason that we had to spend the past seven years and trillion-plus dollars fighting radical Islam, why isn’t Indian doing the same thing? Have the terrorists simply won in India?

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  61. Phil – But then there are their armies [of islamists], who are easy to kill

    No Phil, that’s just xbox. Why don’t you wander down to Coronado island, grab a beer and talk openly about how ‘easy’ it is to kill those ‘armies’?

    You might find some interesting, if scary, gentleman spinning their chairs around and wanting to know where you got that idea. Oh, and bring a suit, ’cause you might be going for a late night swim.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  62. India could have utterly crushed it, India managed to reach a diplomatic solution.

    Phil, you ignorant slut – India and Pakistan can within minutes of a devasting nuclear exchange back in the early part of the decade, which would have killed millions on both sides:

    http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/02/13/060213on_onlineonly01

    India could have “crushed” Pakistan as long as they were willing to allow millions to perish on their own soil. Again, you seem to have no knowledge about the situation between the two countries – better stick with your rape/torture/imprison meme for the forseeable future.

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  63. “came,” rather than “can.”

    Dmac (cc81d9)

  64. I also posted this at Ace.

    Speaking of inaccurate transcriptions, what about the quote from the Charlie Gibson interview that was ridiculed around the blogosphere and “diagrammed” in a condescending Slate column?

    “I know that John McCain will do that and I, as his vice president, families we are blessed with that vote of the American people…”

    Did she actually insert the word “families” for no reason into that sentence? Or was it a case of starting to say one thing and then changing course in mid-sentence and saying something else (which we all do and for which a dash or an ellipsis would be appropriate punctuation)? Or was she simply transcribed wrong? For instance, maybe she actually said, “Hopefully we are blessed with that vote…”

    I’ve looked for video of that part of the interview, but I can’t find it, so I can’t judge. Does anyone know? I’m betting she was transcribed wrong. Would love to find out.

    Bornalive (ce8750)

  65. Phil – We’re getting off topic here That always seems to happen when you comment.

    The topic is media bias in the LA times, as exposed by Patterico. Whatever you do, don’t mention the fact that the media such as the Times, are contributing billions to Obama’s campaign via advertisements disguised as ‘news’.

    That’s what this topic is about.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  66. Have you identified that democratic society under radical islamic power for me yet?

    No, and I’m not arguing that radical Islam can even be comfortable in a democratic society.

    But how is it that 100 million muslims manage to live in India, a social democracy with religious diversity, and not blow the whole place to kingdom come? Why aren’t there 100 million suicide bombers in India? Why aren’t they all rising up to answer Osama’s call?

    What I’m arguing is that fighting an all-out “war on terror” isn’t going to solve the problem of radical Islam. And what I’m getting back is, essentially “nothing else will work — you must want the terrorists to win.” And I’m saying the radical Islamists don’t necessarily win if you don’t stomp out every single one of them. You can’t tell me there aren’t some radical muslims among those 100 million muslims in India.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  67. You’ve written a good letter to the Readers’ Rep. It’s a shame the LA Times’ readers will probably never see it.

    DRJ (c953ab)

  68. Dmac, you are completely and utterly misunderstanding my point about India and Pakistan. But I can’t carry on six conversations at once, so let me just leave it at that.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  69. Noooo . . . we have to make it the primary mission of America to eradicate the pablum of radical Islam from the face of the earth. Anything else, and we “lose” and the world is lunging at us, and we are not no longer a real country, and also a bunch of cows. — Phil

    Uhhhhh . . . whatever you say, Phil . . .

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  70. Don’t palinize me, Patterico.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  71. Even before reading your post, I sent the following note to the reader’s rep at the LA Times when they asked which article I could be asking about when I called them inept:
    “McCain campaign ratchets up the rhetoric” is the story. Your editors are inept at best, and probably just devious and deceptive. With only Freshman English in 1977, I would make a better editor than those you have hired. I could do it by email, between patients at my medical practice if you are interested in a fair, honest and competent editor. I could probably replace 3 or 4 of your “journalism-major” hacks. I could even do a better job of hiding the bosses’ bias if ordered to do so. Their apparent wish for true socialism will invariably lead to the closure of their very business.

    dfbaskwill (beb902)

  72. Phil, when you actually achieve anything in your life, you might ask to be compared to Palin.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  73. Phil,

    What are you talking about?

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  74. But couldn’t the LAT writer watch the segment, rather than just using google, or rather having the intern google? That would be actual reporting. Oh, wait….

    KateCoe (908d0e)

  75. Your comment seems less articulate than Palin at her worst, that’s all.

    I’m sure it’s just a typo or two. Still . . .

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  76. DRJ is authorized to fix those typos in an hour or two. (I’ll be gone.) Right now, I’m making a point.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  77. And that point is that your comment #51 is bizarre.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  78. Trying to make a play on the word “patronize” . . . just a grudging tip of my hat to you, Patterico. Three quarters of the way through my quote I was getting quite red-faced over all my previously-unnoticed typos. Until the part about the cows.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  79. KateCoe – Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to write an accurate column while making telemarketing calls? Cut these Times staffers some slack – and leave some money in the cup out front – after all, it is a Democratic party charity.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  80. Yes Phil, you really should take a class in remedial English. It’s quite embarrassing for you.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  81. I think the LAT is just hanging until they can get an Obama Administration, which will then award them a subsidy so they can continue printing their propaganda …news.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  82. But how is it that 100 million muslims manage to live in India

    Because in 1947-48, India underwent a rending Civil War between Hindu’s and Muslims that killed 100′s of thousands (if not millions, I don’t think anyone really knows how many died) in savage, mob warfare.
    That is the reason there is Pakistan today.
    The sub-Continent was divided so as to separate the two warring factions.

    Many stayed in the new India, for they wished to remain in a country with a secular government, rather than the sectarian government they perceived would be imposed in Pakistan.

    Another Drew (e6d3fc)

  83. Pleeeeeeeeeaaas!! I regret setting those bombs. Is there redemption for my soul? Help me, y’all… :(

    Bill Ayers (1b037c)

  84. Another Drew #82 – Keep explaining facts to Phil like this and you’ll be eligible for a teaching credential.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  85. No. I’ll leave that field of endeavor to Eric, he has a better stomach for it.
    History, though, has become a lost art in the K-12 regimen – both among the faculty, and the students.
    As to the universities, if it’s not on You-Tube, it just doesn’t seem to exist, does it?

    Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it,
    first as tragedy,
    then as farce.

    Another Drew (e6d3fc)

  86. *sigh* … never mind. Go back to spending oodles killing and bombing and invading and occupying. I’m sure you’ll solve the problem of radical Islam eventually.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  87. Don’t worry your empty head over it Phil.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  88. Well, we could use the “Woo-Woo Indian” solution:
    The only good Muslim, is a dead Muslim;
    but that would be wrong (h/t RMN).

    Another Drew (e6d3fc)

  89. Wicked! Wicked and heartless souls! You refuse to hear the cry of a penitent soul. Where is the love of God? WHERE?!

    Bill Ayers (1b037c)

  90. A very good letter, Patterico. It would be so easy for them to make the correction and take a step toward rehabilitation. But of course, the first step is admitting there is a problem….

    At one time I was quite optimistic when the Readers Rep made her appearance however when I last wrote to point out the double standard in allowing heinous comments about Tony Snow’s death while breaking their own standards of publication, I lost all optimism and was instead bluntly reminded by Tony Pierce’s asinine rationalizing that the LAT will never be what it once was.

    Dana (658c17)

  91. Phil

    How do you propose we deal in the here and now with radical islamists that want to kill, destroy, behead those who do not believe in their brand of Islam?

    i’m all for diplomacy, education, love, peace and understanding. some Islamists need to be dead and others need diplomacy. The two should mingle at their own peril because Allah sorts things out in Heaven as He pleases.

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  92. Phil – What percentage of your arguments do you lose with yourself?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  93. How do you propose we deal in the here and now with radical islamists that want to kill, destroy, behead those who do not believe in their brand of Islam?

    Treat them like what they are — an unfortunate example of human frailty, a path to nowhere, and a dangerous threat that is dealt with swiftly whenever it is discovered.

    Instead, we treat them as the second coming of Satan against which we must mobilize all our armies and stomp across the earth into some grand confrontation in which there will be one winner and one loser. We make the scope of our efforts against them the linchpin of our foreign policy debates. We call them the greatest threat known to modern civilization.

    And by doing so we give every pissed-off unemployed muslim with a inferiority complex a sudden shortcut to glory.

    It’s like we are running a constant, all-channels advertisement for radical Islam: “Tired of living in a primitive society with no education and few prospects for any security? Want to be the person that the most powerful nation on earth is deathly afraid of? Just apply at your local mosque!”

    Phil (3b1633)

  94. As a legit former Democrat voter, Carter god forgive; and Clinton, I think I offset these so called republican idiots.
    My opinion was that Bush – even as bad as he has been, was better than Gore and better than Kerry. Say ow… you’ve (Democrats) earned it by sending awful candidates.

    I’d vote Democrat nationally again, and I will vote Democrat locally in this election.
    The national slate is horrible again this year.
    I’ll give you that McCain sucks.
    Obama does too.
    Obama shouldn’t be anything more than a junior Senator. McCain shouldn’t be more than an old Senator.
    But thanks to the powers that decide this crap (I live in California and our primary means zero) we get McCain vs Obama. woo hoo
    Old dunce vs young dunce

    Palin for all her flaws has more common sense and better instinctive grasp of what Americans want than Obama and McCain combined.

    McCain is a political coward so far. he values collegiality over principle. His reaches across the aisle have been as often disasters (McCain Feingold) as successes. The people he reaches across the aisle to stab him in the back, and he refuses to say anything harsh about them in public.
    Cindi McCain seems tougher in the political arena than her husband. she seems to be pushing him to fight for this and he doesn’t want to hurt his friends in the Senate.
    he should tell Shumer and the rest to go *bleep* themselves with a pole.

    PS: I thought Bill Clinton was going to campaign for Obama after the Jewish holidays. Are those holidays running longer this year than usual?

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  95. “It’s like we are running a constant, all-channels advertisement for radical Islam”

    They get PBS?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  96. Phil – a dangerous threat that is dealt with swiftly whenever it is discovered.

    Here is one of the problems with your strategy. You. And your leftists friends. I will at least give you credit for writing that radical islam is a dangerous and unstable group that illegitimately threatens western countries.

    I cannot say the same for Ward Churchill, Susan Sontag, Jeremiah Wright, Noam Chomsky, and yes, even the topic of this post – the LA Times.

    These people, along with their ideological fellow travelers have all, in their way, stated that the attack on the west by radical islam was itself the fault of the west. (and yes, it is the west, see list above)

    It is impossible to deal swiftly with a discovery of radical islam when political groups within your own country are attempting to de-legitimize that call to action. This results in the corrective action of over-emphasizing the strategic importance of the islamic radicals. They cannot, on their own, defeat and occupy the west. They can, however, de-stabilize the country to a point whereby a different actor or set of problems reduces the effectiveness of action. Since there are ideological enemies of this country, based in this country, actively assisting in spreading propaganda in favor of any enemy of this country, that over-emphasis is warranted.

    These actions do not occur in a bubble.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  97. T H A N K S * f o r * a l l * y o u * do . . . . .

    Had reporter Peter Nicholas bothered to watch the segment, he would have seen that this transcript is completely inaccurate. Those seemingly inarticulate quotes about “confliction stories” and how Obama “knocked off” his political career in Ayers’s living room — they never happened. Those words did not come out of Sarah Palin’s mouth. I watched the segment. It’s Part 3 at this Web address:

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  98. Apogee @96 – Agreed. They usually need the cooperation of, what is the term I am looking for……,

    USEFUL IDIOTS.

    We see a bunch of those floating on and off the board here.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  99. conjunction function
    what’s ur conflictions

    how a bill becomes a law?
    more cartoon caricatures/
    smurfs please…but not the one with the diaper on his
    head

    pdbuttons (359493)

  100. Wait – the transcript was provided by none other than FOX NEWS? That doesn’t come across in this post. The quote is proceded by this:

    Palin told Fox’s Sean Hannity, in a transcript provided by the network:…

    If FOX NWES botched this, that’s the real kicker here.

    Why does FOX NEWS hate Sarah Palin?

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  101. Psyberian – Read the post. Do you think that the LA Times would have printed something nonsensical about Obama without double checking the video?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  102. That would depend on the individual reporter Apogee. Why should a reporter distrust a Fox News transcript of a republican though? I can see how FN might screw up a democrat’s transcript, but a republican VP-elect? Not so much.

    Maybe Fox News was trying to help Palin?

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  103. Wait – the transcript was provided by none other than FOX NEWS? That doesn’t come across in this post.

    It’s one of the first things I say. Sorry if it wasn’t clear to you, but it’s not my fault.

    It was from a transcript that (I’m going from memory here) the network described as “rough.” If the LAT wanted to be responsible — given how goofy the wording is, which should have raised a red flag — they would have watched the segment.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  104. Assuming that Fox News provided the script and it was really that poorly done, then the source (i.e., Fox News) needs most of the blame rather than anyone else who merely quotes it.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  105. Assuming that Fox News provided the script and it was really that poorly done, then the source (i.e., Fox News) needs most of the blame rather than anyone else who merely quotes it.

    This is true.

    They were responsible, first and foremost.

    Michael Ejercito (a757fd)

  106. Psyberian, Michael, no its not true. The item purported to report on what Palin said, not what a transcript read.

    Real journalists know the difference, TNR style hacks don’t.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  107. Notice how Psyberian really just wants to blast Fox, rather than address the actual topic.

    JD (f7900a)

  108. Notice how JD really just wants to blast the LAT rather than address the transcript’s source.

    Psyberian (37b2ae)

  109. Psyberian wrote in #100:

    Wait – the transcript was provided by none other than FOX NEWS?

    From Fox’s 10/8/08 story, After Tame Debate, McCain Camp Renews Criticism of Obama’s Personal Ties:

    Sarah Palin, in interviews with FOX News, said Obama’s relationship with Ayers raises legitimate questions.

    “We need to question his judgment and not only those atrocious activities that Bill Ayers was involved in, but the questions need to be asked, I believe — When did Barack Obama know of his activities? We’ve heard so many conflicting stories,” she said in an interview with FOX News’ Sean Hannity.

    For each of the three disputes between the LA Times and Patterico that are covered in this quote, I’ve bolded and underlined where the FoxNews.com reporter agrees with the LA Times.

    AMac (c822c9)


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