Patterico's Pontifications

6/23/2008

The Material from Judge Kozinski’s Website/Server — Part Two: Including Videos

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General,Kozinski — Patterico @ 6:15 am

Over the weekend, I received the CD of material that Cyrus Sanai says he downloaded from Judge Kozinski’s server/website. I am publishing more of that material in this post, including video material that I was previously unable to publish.

Last week, I published several images that Mr. Sanai had e-mailed me. I concentrated on publishing the material that had been mentioned in the initial L.A. Times article. Mr. Sanai was unable to e-mail me video files, and accordingly he mailed me the disc.

In my earlier post, I said:

[T]he images on Judge Kozinski’s web site are the story of the day, and I believe they are news. I believe that the only way for the public to evaluate them properly is to have the opportunity to look at them firsthand. Accordingly, I have uploaded some of these images to my site, so that interested readers can view them.

After I received the CD, I considered very carefully the question of whether to publish more material. After all, the story is now several days old. The material is unlikely to change people’s minds greatly. The people who were shocked by the previous material will be shocked by some of this material; the people who weren’t shocked by any of it are unlikely to be shocked by the material here.

However, as with the images I had received from Mr. Sanai by e-mail, I was struck by how different some of the material was from the text descriptions offered in the newspaper. As with some of the items in the previous post, there were some items — but not all — that appeared more innocuous and/or humorous in context. There is also at least one movie file that seems pornographic, with little discernable humorous value — but it’s still not illegal, or any different from hundreds of thousands of similar videos floating around the Internet.

I still think there’s no substitute for looking at the actual material. This is likely the last post I will publish about this material, but I think it helps complete the coverage, and sheds more light on the controversy.

So, after much thought and internal debate, I have decided to round out the public record with respect to the images that were specifically described by the L.A. Times, as well as the files that Mr. Sanai had specifically mentioned to me. In addition, I’m going to include some of the more innocuous material, including some of the specific items described by Ms. Tiffany in her e-mail. I’ll try to give you an overview of the nature of the material as a whole: how extensive it is, and how much it concentrates on sexual or pornographic themes.

I am tucking most of this within the extended entry. Regular readers who are offended by such material, or bored with the story, are welcome to skip to the next post.

However, there are a few things that I want everyone to see.

The original article said:

Some nonsexual material on the website might also be considered demeaning to women: There was mock mathematical equation presented as “proof that girls are evil,” and a photo of a 1950s-era mother and her daughter sharing a book titled, “Becoming a Bitch.”

Let’s take a look at the equation:

girlsevil.jpg

Here is the “Becoming a Bitch” image:

i-knew-there-was-a-book.jpg

Different people will have different reactions, but again, there is no substitute for viewing the actual material.

Also, mentioned by nobody, but one of the funniest things I saw on the whole CD, was this notice of appeal by a particularly angry pro per (explicit language warning).

Also on the disc was the best commercial for a lawyer I have ever seen. The lawyer screams:

I cannot rip out the hearts of those who hurt you! I cannot hand you their severed heads! But I can hunt them down and settle the score! I’ll squeeze them for every dime I can! Every single dime!

View it here. I have watched it several times, and never tire of viewing it.

Now, on to the more explicit material.

As with my previous post, I’ll warn you that there are depictions of nudity and/or sexual activity. In some cases, even my descriptions are explicit. If you click on “more” you will see the explicit descriptions. If you click on a link to a file, you may see something very explicit. You are warned.

[Extended entry]

There are roughly 400 items on the CD I was sent, including about 24 .mp3 files, about a dozen .pdfs, about 10 applications of various types, well over 200 video files, around 100 image files in various formats, 15 Power Point presentations, and various other miscellaneous files.

I wasn’t able to make my way through everything. When there are around 400 files, there is a limit to how much you can look at. But I looked at a pretty good cross-section; probably the majority of it.

For what it’s worth, I saw virtually nothing in the folder that was clearly private. There is one photo of Judge Kozinski with three young men, apparently a family shot of some sort, titled “Hawaii.” I didn’t notice anything else like that.

If I had to pick a phrase to describe most of the humor, it would be “beer commercial humor.” And indeed, there are a lot of beer commercials. A lot. Some are pretty funny.

There is a sizable percentage of sexual-themed humor, including cartoons, photos, videos, and the like.

MATERIAL FITTING THE DESCRIPTION OF MATERIAL FLAGGED BY THE L.A. TIMES

In the initial L.A. Times article about the images, we read this:

The sexually explicit material on the site was extensive, including images of masturbation, public sex and contortionist sex. There was a slide show striptease featuring a transsexual, and a folder that contained a series of photos of women’s crotches in snug-fitting clothing or underwear.

Let’s start with “masturbation, public sex and contortionist sex.”

Masturbation

The most striking image of masturbation on the CD is the one that Mr. Sanai told me to open first. The file name is “BestWomanDriver” and it is a video of a woman giving a man a hand job as she drives.

The video is 1 minutes 27 seconds in length. It starts with a shot of a clothed woman driving a car. She is driving on the right side of the car, as they do in England. The video appears to be shot from the point of view of the passenger, or perhaps a backseat passenger leaning forward. Eventually, the woman takes the front passenger’s fully visible erect penis in her hand and strokes it. This goes on for almost a minute, with the camera focused on the penis for virtually that entire time. At the end of the video, the man ejaculates. The semen can be seen squirting from his erect penis. Some of it gets on the woman’s hand, and she licks her fingers.

The video was on the CD of materials that Mr. Sanai sent to me that he claims were on Judge Kozinski’s server. A file bearing the same name showed up in a search I did this weekend using the Yahoo search engine. I put the file name “bestwomandriver.wmv” into the Yahoo search engine, and a file by that name came up with an address on alex.kozinski.com. You can view the screenshot I took here.

For what it’s worth, a file by that name is also one of a long list of files that a commenter of mine claims to have pulled off a search engine cache. That comment was published in the early morning hours of June 12. The IP address for the comment is not the same IP address that Mr. Sanai has used to comment on my site.

I e-mailed the commenter and asked him what search engine he had pulled the list of files from. He e-mailed me several images that he said came from Yahoo Site Explorer. You can see one of those images here. It contains a file with the same name as this file, as well as several other file names identical to files described in this post. The commenter gave me his full name, which he did not want published, and confirmed that he pulled this list of files from Yahoo on the morning of June 12, 2008. That does not necessarily mean that the files were on the server on that date; it just means that the Yahoo search revealed them on that date, according to my commenter.

When I first heard the file name of this video from Mr. Sanai, I expected that there might be some undisclosed humorous component to the video, such as a double entendre treating a man’s erection as a stick shift, or some such thing. If there is any joke in connection with the video, it lies in the juxtaposition of the title — “BestWomanDriver” — together with the subject matter. Otherwise, there is nothing inherently humorous that I noticed about the video.

I can’t say for sure whether this video was among the material viewed by the L.A. Times. I contacted Marcy Tiffany and Scott Glover to ask them whether they had any personal knowledge of this video being on Judge Kozinski’s server. I received no response for publication, but I am always willing to update the post and/or allow comments. As with all the material, if this video was on Judge Kozinski’s site, I do not know whether he uploaded it, or someone else.

The video can be viewed here.

Public sex

Mr. Sanai also encouraged me to post a link to a video called “chinesemassproduction.” It shows over a hundred Asian couples in a single room, fully naked, lined up in rows, copulating in the exact same position. The video grays out portions of the genitals, so that you cannot see erect penises entering the women’s vaginas. The “oddity” character of this video is beyond dispute. The video is all over the Internet, so I don’t need to upload it to my site. View it here.

As with the “bestwomandriver” video, you can plug the video name “chinesemassproduction.wmv” into Yahoo, and get a hit to a document on alex.kozinski.com. View my screenshot here.

In another video of public sex, we see two people in the top row of a stadium. The woman is sitting on the man and moving around. They appear to be fully clothed, yet they are obviously having sex.

They think nobody can see them, but they’re being taped.

View it here.

This video is in some ways an apt metaphor for what happened to Kozinski.

Like Kozinski’s site, the actions of the people on the video are ultimately behavior that was done in public. That behavior sounds pretty bad when it’s described, but when you see it, it’s not really as bad as you thought. The people involved didn’t think anyone could see what they were doing. But they should have been aware of the possibility. Because they weren’t, their actions ended up being viewed by people when they did not intend for that to happen.

Sound familiar?

Contortionist sex

The video of contortionist sex is, I believe, the same video that is described in a different article as “a video of a couple simultaneously orally copulating one another.” It is titled “upside down.” It is 24 seconds in length and shows two fully naked people. It is difficult to describe in words what they are doing. The man is lying on a couch with his back on the couch cushions. On top of him is a woman straddling his face with her legs, and arching her back and turning upside down, and sucking on his erect penis while her body is contorted and upside down. It can be viewed here.

While pornographic and very graphic, it certainly has an “oddity” value to it. The oddball nature of the video is fully conveyed by the newspaper’s description of it as “contortionist sex” in one article, but not by the description of it as “a video of a couple simultaneously orally copulating one another” in another article.

As with “BestWomanDriver,” this video was accessible through search engines. It is listed in this list of search engine cache files pulled by my commenter. The “upsidedown” video was also listed in the Yahoo cache memorialized here.

“Camel toe” photos of women’s crotches

The set of “camel-toe” photos is interesting, because it clearly has a humorous aspect that is completely absent from the L.A. Times description of it as “a folder that contained a series of photos of women’s crotches in snug-fitting clothing or underwear.” As with so much of this material, many would consider the humor to be in poor taste, but it’s nevertheless clearly an attempt at humor.

There are actually no photos as such, but rather two videos that have a series of photos accompanied by an allegedly humorous song sung to the tune of the Beach Boys’ “Kokomo,” with the refrain “I see your camel toe.” In the video, various images of vaginas in tight-fitting clothing are compared to items like tacos, clam shells, biscuits turned on their sides, and so forth — and images of those items are interspersed with the images of the women’s crotches.

You can view these videos here and here.

Slideshow of woman shaving pubic hair

The initial article said:

[Kozinski] also said he planned to get rid of a graphic step-by-step pictorial in which a woman is seen shaving her pubic hair.

That’s a pretty accurate description of the Power Point, which is titled brazilian-hair-cut. It is a sort of how-to slide show which, despite the name of the file, appears to be in Spanish and not Portuguese. (Don’t make me swear to it.) You can view it here. It was also available through the Yahoo search engine, through a cache.

If you look at it, check out the old guy in the last slide. The look on his face is pretty amusing. But you have to scroll through a lot of explicit photos to get to it.

Naked woman showering

A subsequent L.A. Times article repeated some of these descriptions, and added references to other material, including:

a video of a couple simultaneously orally copulating one another; a video of a naked woman showering and massaging her breasts . . .

As noted, the “video of a couple simultaneously orally copulating one another” appears to be the contortionist sex video linked above. The “video of a naked woman showering and massaging her breasts” has something of a ridiculous aspect to it, in that her breasts are each individually far larger than her head. You can view that video here.

MATERIAL IDENTIFIED BY MARCY TIFFANY

Marcy Tiffany described the material on the server as follows:

Glover also wrote that “the sexually explicit material on the site was extensive.” In fact, of the several hundred items in the “stuff” folder, the vast majority was cute, amusing, and not in the least bit sexual in nature. For example, there’s a program that lets you build a snowman (no private parts involved). There’s a “stress reliever” that lets you take a virtual hammer to your desktop (which I’ve been using a lot lately). There’s a picture of freshly painted double-yellow lines that go right over road kill, with the caption “not my job award.” There’s something called “cool juggle” that shows a video of a guy juggling who drops a ball outside the frame and becomes a stick figure when he goes to pick it up. There are over 300 individual items in the “stuff” folder, the vast majority of which are of this nature. In addition, this folder contains about a half-dozen items that, while humorous, also have some kind of sexual aspect. Most of these you have already identified on your website.

The “cool juggle” image is here:

kooljuggle.gif

The “not my job award” is here:

notmyjob.gif

OTHER MATERIAL

There are indeed a sizable number of humorous, amusing, or diverting files similar to those described by Ms. Tiffany. I can’t begin to upload them all. There is a video called “Arrested Texas Style” where a guy is flat-out run over by a police vehicle. There is a file called “Not Good” with a series of photos of people in the middle of situations ranging from unpleasant to disastrous: people about to have buckets of water land on their heads; people in a car in the process of tipping over; people flying through the air after having fallen off a motorcycle, etc. There is a slide show about how criminals steal ATM cards and PINs from people. Another about a large-scale pot-growing operation. There is a video of a Japanese guy making fish swim in formation. There is a lot of non-sexual material. There is an application that makes mice walk across your screen. And so forth.

Material like that, in my judgment, forms the majority of the items on the disc.

These are a vast number of whimsical videos that are just amusing.

There are countless commercials. Dozens of them, mostly with the sort of humor that accompanies beer commercials. A dog is happy with his food, and can play amazing ping-pong with his tail. An ad for the Berlitz language school has a new German Coast Guard member taking a distress call from an English-speaking captain saying he is “sinking.” The German Coast Guard guy says, “What are you sinking about?” Get it? He should learn better English. This sort of thing goes on and on and on.

After a while I stopped opening videos because I couldn’t take looking at another commercial.

There is also a lot of humor with a sexual aspect, including a couple dozen items or more that I saw with images of nudity. We covered some of those in a previous post, or earlier in this post. But here are some other examples:

There is an image called “HomerLookAlike” which places part of Homer Simpson’s face over an explicit shot of a woman’s vagina to make it appear as though the vagina is Homer Simpson’s five o’clock shadow. You can view it here.

There are three images of Canadian money picturing women with bare breasts. An example is here.

There is another MasterCard spoof (similar to the two linked in the previous post) in which four women smile for the camera. One has her skirt hiked up and you can see pubic hair. The punch line: “Your Beaver on the Internet: Priceless.” View that slice of humor here.

There is a close-up shot of a woman’s shaved crotch, with a thong like a piece of dental floss covering nothing, with a caption reading “Democrats New Slogan . . . Read My Lips . . . No More Bush.” View it here.

A woman takes her clothes off. The file is titled wall-mart-greeter.

I’m not going to upload them all. There is a video of a topless woman doing gymastics titled “bouncybouncy.” There is an application where you click on boxes with numbers to gradually unclothe an attractive naked woman, and when you click on the last box that will reveal her breasts, up pops a picture of a man mooning you, with his cheeks spread quite unattractively. There is a program that shows two naked woman, standing in a pool, one behind the other, with the breasts of the one in front fully exposed. If you move the mouse around, her right breast moves at the command of your mouse. There is a cigar commercial in which a woman rolls a cigar between her naked breasts. (It’s a foreign commercial.) There is a video called “Muscle Tricks” in which a woman takes off her bikini top and flexes her bare breasts. There is a file called “Nutcracker” which is a German commercial in which a topless woman emerges from a shower, comes up to a plate of walnuts, and cracks them by placing them between her buttocks and squeezing. This material, and more like it, is all perfectly soft-core and humorous in nature.

There are numerous cartoons, images, and videos of a mostly humorous nature. Many (but certainly not all) have some silly sexual aspect to them, with no explicit depiction of nudity (except for the cartoons, which often do). The description of the material by Wonkette as “the sort of naughtiness you’d find in the dirty birthday cards section at Spencer Gifts” is very apt for a lot of the material.

I doubt this post will change anyone’s mind about this controversy, but it does provide a fuller picture of what Mr. Sanai claims he found on the website/server. I think that providing this extensive description, with a number of examples, provides fairness to all sides by giving a fuller picture of what generated this controversy.

107 Responses to “The Material from Judge Kozinski’s Website/Server — Part Two: Including Videos”

  1. Patterico,

    I find this whole matter ethically distasteful. As a computer professional since 1975, I never condone the examination of someone’s computer without search warrant or national authority sanction.

    That said, in my heart of hearts, I belive Mr. Sanai was totally wrong in searching out the judge’s server and examining every file the way he did. It was for spite and revenge, not for any legal reason. This is one more incident reinforcing my belief that maybe Puritan New Englanders were on to something with their extreme repudiation, the death penalty, for being a barrister.

    I think the ABA ought to seek an outside group to write a code of conduct and ethics for all US lawyers to accept or be disbarred.

    PCD (5c49b0)

  2. Here is the “Becoming a Bitch” image:

    I’ve long suspected as much…

    We men are on to you now, ladies…

    ;)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  3. I’ve been looking for the ‘girls are evil’ equation for years. Could’nt remember how to do the proof myself.

    I have had much, much worse on my computer. I think that there isn’t anything wrong on Koz’s computer. But that is just me.

    What ever happened to that argument that the left used to use against censorship? If you don’t like it, change the channel.

    Jack (d9cbc5)

  4. “I think the ABA ought to seek an outside group to write a code of conduct and ethics for all US lawyers to accept or be disbarred.”

    Too bad the ABA has no regulatory power, and there is no national regulatory power for attorneys in the U.S.

    Of course, let’s keep in mind that if the ABA did have such power, one of the requirements would probably be “vote Democratic.”

    The Angry Clam (085c88)

  5. There are a few mistakes in the “girls are evil” equation. First of all, if girls require “time and money,” then the appropriate equation (even assuming that “requires” can be written as “equal to”) would be:

    Girls = Time + Money

    We were never told how much time and money girls require; that equation ought to have coefficients and constants (as girls surely are more than time and money).

    Even if we leave this as “Girls = 2*Money”, we’re still stuck with “Money is the root of all evil.” First of all, it could be the square root – or the cube root – or the fifth root. One can never be sure. Plugging in “Girls = 2*Money” and replacing “Money” with “square root of evil,” we get “Girls = square root of 2 * square root of evil.”

    Okay, maybe it’s obvious that I spent my formative years learning math from my dad instead of learning other activities on my momma’s knee….

    bridget (add3eb)

  6. Meh, Mr. Sanai is just being the jackass he is. That he was able to employ the LAT to further his vendetta is the news story here, PCD, as Patterico’s aware.

    I say! Wouldn’t it be illustrative to employ these same standards of “obscenity” to what’s been published and positively reviewed in the pages of the newspaper itself. Because, goodness knows, its position of public trust is very important.

    Dan Collins (5885b2)

  7. So long as you skipped “that book”, yer fine… :)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  8. Mr. Collins,

    Frankly, my issue isn’t that Sanai is using what ever organization he find sympathic to his cause. My problem is the ethics of “burglarizing” someone else’s server and that transgression not being called what it is and dealt with accordingly.

    Computer Security and such is a very touchy subject with me, and it is part of my job.

    PCD (5c49b0)

  9. There are roughly 400 items on the CD I was sent, including about 24 .mp3 files

    Doesn’t that mean that Mr. Sanai distributed copyrighted mp3s, presumably for internet publication?

    Nah, couldn’t be!

    bridget (add3eb)

  10. LMAO!!!!

    Keep it up, Bridget… Today’s gonna suck for me, and I need the laughs…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  11. Hmm. I’m looking at this link Patterico posted a few days ago, and I don’t see the “chinesemassproduction” or “bestwomandriver” on it at all.

    http://cryptome.org/kozinski-stuff/kozinski-stuff.htm

    BillTheCat (a49cf2)

  12. yeah, you are mathematically and morally right!!!!!!!!

    mgapanghitabo (7290d4)

  13. I cannot wait for Sanai’s opposition to say – If Sanai will do this to a Judges web site, what do you think he treats his clients privacy.

    davod (5bdbd3)

  14. I agree with Patterico. The stuff in this post is pretty innocuous. And some of it is sexy and some of it is funny or both. It helps to see the “evidence” with your own eyes and not make up your mind until you have seen all of it.

    nk (a9ace6)

  15. still no impeachable offenses. in northern california there’s a black federal judge who told a lie for many years to garner sympathy and advance his career, about how he was giving his little brother a ride on the handlebars of his bicycle when the brother was shot off of those bars by a white supremacist, he was finally outed by another black federal judge in the south, but he’s still on the bench.

    after reading just his first four or five comments, i got tired of the smarmy self-righteousness emanating from mr. sanai. most lawyers know that there’s a point beyond which, nothing more you can say will advance your case, and they know to siddown and shuddup at this point. i wonder how much actual courtroom experience mr. sanai has, excluding his own personal follies, as opposed to scrivening in his office, a lesser estate in the bar.

    lol@the notice of appeal. i’ve got a box of funny pleadings around here somewhere, including one in which i was accused of witchcraft.

    assistant devil's advocate (d0caa8)

  16. Two of your sentences are anatomically incorrect:

    In the video, various images of vaginas in tight-fitting clothing are compared to items like tacos, clam shells, biscuits turned on their sides, and so forth — and images of those items are interspersed with the images of the women’s crotches.

    There is an image called “HomerLookAlike” which places part of Homer Simpson’s face over an explicit shot of a woman’s vagina to make it appear as though the vagina is Homer Simpson’s five o’clock shadow.

    The human vagina is an elastic muscular canal that extends from the cervix to the vulva.

    What you call the vagina in those two sentences is actually the labia majora.

    You obviously spent too many hours on this project over the weekend. Lack of sleep -> exhaustion -> verbal errors.

    slp (ebfb93)

  17. I don’t understand the premise here. Are you saying should stay on the case because the porn he likes is funny?

    Or are you saying girls stripping and people having sex aren’t pornographic if there is humor involved?

    Kevin (834f0d)

  18. i’ve got a box of funny pleadings around here somewhere, including one in which i was accused of witchcraft

    If you scan these and post the files, I will love you forever… :)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  19. One more thing. I did not download anywhere close to all of the mp3s of protected material, because I did not want a Kozinski-instigated RIAA lawsuit against me. Since that material was fully indexed, I just took samples to demonstrate that they worked.

    I look forward to Mrs. Kozinski explaining how “bestwomandriver” meets the comedy test. It is straight pornography, as are several other videos.

    This does lead, though to an interesting new defense for real obscenity: the Kozinski Humor Defense: “It is supposed to be funny”. If Ira Isaacs succeeds in his double jeopardy argument, he should dub laugh tracks on his videos and make ostensibly “humorous” covers to forestall future prosecutions in this circuit. All new videos should feature actresses wearing groucho marx glasses and funny hats.

    Cyrus Sanai

    Cyrus Sanai (4df861)

  20. GOD you’re getting annoying…

    Lemme guess, you were the kid the teacher had take names in grade school of who talked when she had to leave the classroom, weren’t you…

    President of the A/V club?

    Lemme know if I get close…

    btw, I REALLY hope you lose the appeal, and end up having to pay that Million Dollars. :)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  21. Cyrus –

    “BestWomanDriver” and “upside down” contain graphic sexual content. However, it is highly unlikely that a jury in San Francisco or Los Angeles would find them obscene under Miller v. California.

    Patterico says this is his last post on the Kozinski files, so you can leave this site and not come back.

    Hopefully, the next time you are in the news will be when State Bar of California takes disciplinary action against you for abuse of process and frivolous appeals while representing your mother.

    slp (ebfb93)

  22. Keep commenting Cyrus. I’m enjoying how your vayious stories are evolving with time.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  23. The judge is at best a jerk. He should have his judicial arse spanked. He is a spoiled Ivy League twit who should be taken out to the woodshed and thoroughly thrashed. Then maybe a disbarment. He sits in judgement on an obscenity trial and he makes it. I’m not against obscenity but rather the hypocracy of the ruling elite. Maybe we could revoke his citizenshipa deport the pud back to Rumania. Let the arrogant moron and dumb lawyer wife live with/in a gypsy commune for a while.

    David Brown (e1f1c7)

  24. Hopefully, the next time you are in the news will be when State Bar of California takes disciplinary action against you for abuse of process and frivolous appeals while representing your mother.

    Ya know, this just lends itself to “your mother” jokes, but Mr. Prude would probably take offence, and then we’ld all wind up in court.

    bridget (add3eb)

  25. David Brown,

    He should have his judicial arse spanked.

    David Lat might volunteer to do that.

    He is a spoiled Ivy League twit

    Since when is UCLA an Ivy League school?

    Then maybe a disbarment. He sits in judgement on an obscenity trial and he makes it.

    First of all, the state of California does not consider Judge Kozinski to be a member of the bar:
    see here.

    Now, if you want to remove him from the bench, you would have to persuade Congress to impeach him. (Art. III, Sec. 1)

    Finally, since when did Judge Kozinski make obscene material? If you’ve been paying attention, he was not involved in the production of these videos, nor are they legally obscene.

    bridget (add3eb)

  26. He sits in judgement on an obscenity trial and he makes it.

    Nor does he sit in judgement… He recused himself and ASKED for an investigation…

    What a douche-nozzle…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  27. Lemme guess, you were the kid the teacher had take names in grade school of who talked when she had to leave the classroom, weren’t you…

    Scott Jacobs, I thought you were more astute than that. Sanai probably sued the school district to have the teacher fired when she failed to give detention to the kids that Sanai snitched on.

    bridget (add3eb)

  28. Scott Jacobs, I thought you were more astute than that. Sanai probably sued the school district to have the teacher fired when she failed to give detention to the kids that Sanai snitched on.

    *snickers*

    You’re my favorite person today… :)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  29. Awww… thank you! :)

    I don’t know about Sanai’s ratings, but he is not listed in Martindale-Hubble (which would indicate that he’s not the golden child of legal ethics – shocker, I know).

    bridget (add3eb)

  30. I miss Maxie! Where’s my baybee hidin’ out?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  31. Thanks, Patterico, for taking the time to go through all this.

    Much of what some people might object to is actually art, even if it is not humorous or is not a commentary on human foibles. It may be moving art or performance art as opposed to a still picture or a sculpture. The upsidedown video is apparently the inspiration for the Cirque du Soleil show.

    By the way, we have tons of publicly displayed anatomically correct nude art which people just can’t help passing by (e.g., the Robert Graham sculptures at the entrance to the Los Angeles Coliseum and his sculpture Torso on Rodeo Drive), while anyone going Judge Kozinski’s “web site” had to purposefully go there.

    The bestwomandriver is of the same ilk as many videos sent to me by friends and colleagues (I am a lawyer) over the years. I found the bestwomandriver video to be very funny, and a commentary at the same time. Of course, humor is a matter of personal taste. I have friends who viscerally take umbrage at humor directed at their presidential candidate and yet they gleefully email around similar humor directed at the other candidate. (Personally, I am not yet committed to either candidate.)

    You write, “The people who were shocked by the previous material will be shocked by some of this material; the people who weren’t shocked by any of it are unlikely to be shocked by the material here.” Well, you are probably correct with respect to me.

    In any event, this whole matter is another example of the LA Times’ being more in the propaganda business than the news business.

    If there ever was a judge who should have been presiding over the Ira Isaacs case, it is Judge Kozinski. (By the way, I am not Ira Isaacs.) Judge Kozinski has the tastes of a regular guy. Sure he is better educated and smarter than the average guy (would we want anything less of a judge), but he has the feel what regular folks accept. (So does his wife.) As former US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said with respect to obscenity: “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.”

    How could we expect a judge to know obscenity when he sees it if he has not been seeing what the community sees.

    Shame on the LA Times.

    Ira (5a8831)

  32. I knew it. ADA is a witch! BURN HIM/HER!!!!

    Cyrus doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Hilarious. Apparently judges aren’t allowed to have mild porn. Personally, given all the misogyny on Kozinski’s server, I assumed the humor was that the woman was able to “walk and chew bubble gum”, so to speak, by not crashing the car while engaged in her other activity. Actually, I’m very surprised no one else finds this explanation obvious. Not that the file requires any explanation.

    But this settles it. Kozinski probably never saw any of these files before Cyrus’s attack, but even if he did, he’s at best a normal male with a secret crude humor like most psychologically healthy people, and a taste in porn that is relatively mild and certainly not nearly as extreme and perverse as the LA Times claimed with their scat and beastiality suggestions.

    Patterico has devastated them, once again, through a lot of hard work that I appreciate.

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  33. Jem – If that woman can cook, I’m sold.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  34. One of the interesting questions that has been raised in whether or not Judge Kozinski posted OBSCENE material on his website.

    The answer, of course, depends on the community in which one lives. In Los Angeles, I think the answer would be “no”. In Cour D’Alene Idaho or Provo Utah, I think the answer would be “yes”. I think if this material were played before the House or Senate Judiciary Committees, none of the members would be willing to give Judge Kozinski a pass.

    The fact that many commentators do not find this stuff troublesome or have seen the same or similar things is more a statement about the pervasiveness of pornography consumption among the anonymous commentariat than anything else.

    Cyrus Sanai

    Cyrus Sanai (4df861)

  35. Ira has a very good point in that it’s a huge shame to the future of free speech, in a real and serious way, that that this judge is not presiding over the obscenity case. The timing of the attack was deliberate, and it’s obvious that there is more to Cyrus’s motives that mere revenge, because he kept his mouth shut for so long and now is unable to shut it even as it damages his argument so totally.

    Kozinski may actually have viewed porn in a normal way. Most men have, of course. Kozinski was utterly unhypocritical about it, and it would have been nice to have at least one normal person on the panel. Cyrus notes that pornagraphy is ‘pervasive’ as though that’s somehow bad. It’s free speech, asshole.

    Ira has a very good point in that it’s a huge shame to the future of free speech, in a real and serious way, that that this judge is not presiding over the obscenity case. The timing of the attack was deliberate, and it’s obvious that there is more to Cyrus’s motives that mere revenge, because he kept his mouth shut for so long and now is unable to shut it even as it damages his argument so totally.

    Kozinski may actually have viewed porn in a normal way. Most men have, of course. Kozinski was utterly unhypocritical about it, and it would have been nice to have at least one normal person on the panel.

    I ask Cyrus: have you been in contact with either of the parties in this pornography case? Are you aware that your attack was timed deliberately to impact an important free speech case to get the libertarian kicked off and better the chances of censorship? After all, you are ridiculous in your description of the actual porn and your insistence that everyone who has no problem with it is an example of ‘what’s wrong with the world’. Apparently everything and everyone must go your way or you will intend great harm upon them, right?

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  36. I should note that I’ve asked Cyrus a few other questions that he has refused to answer. Apparently, it’s ok for Cyrus to do absolutely anything to anyone, but it’s not ok for Cyrus to answer a question.

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  37. Cyrus – You have stated definitively that the presence of mp3′s on the Judge’s computer was illegal. What is your legal reasoning behind that conclusion.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  38. The fact that many commentators do not find this stuff troublesome or have seen the same or similar things is more a statement about the pervasiveness of pornography consumption among the anonymous commentariat than anything else.

    Well, Sanai, you apparently know more about my life than I do. I dislike watching R-rated movies because I find the sex scenes to be not to my liking, yet, in your world, the fact that I don’t find Judge Kozinski’s humour to be legally obscene is because I watch so much porn myself.

    I hate pornography. I don’t watch it, think about it, look at it, or buy it. Yet I’m also aware that we live in a free country – one in which normal people enjoy porn, and normal people detest porn. It’s the tofu of filmmaking, if you will.

    Chastity advocates are not without their would-be censors, in case you have not noticed. The price for my speech – the expression of my deep beliefs about human sexuality – is allowing others the same.

    bridget (add3eb)

  39. The fact that many commentators do not find this stuff troublesome or have seen the same or similar things is more a statement about the pervasiveness of pornography consumption among the anonymous commentariat than anything else.

    Or it suggests that you’re a humorless twat…

    Six of one, half a dozen of another…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  40. I watch so much porn myself.

    I just wanted that out-of-context quote out there…

    :)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  41. The only time I watch porn is when I come to this site.

    Thanks Patterico. :)

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  42. Mr. Sanai’s comment #34 supra appears to be a sideways response to a question I posed to him on the “Memory Hole” thread —

    Are you also stating (conceding?) that the material from the server that Patterico has posted to date is not pornography? Or is the point that they are but that these two other files [“chinesemassproduction” and “bestwomandriver”] are even more so?

    It’s a response but not a direct answer; Mr. Sanai seems to prefer implications, inferences, and allusions to yes/no statements. At least when questions are directed his way.

    Which is fine, in a way. As noted more eloquently by other commenters, the defect lies less with Mr. Sanai being who he is, and more with the LA Times’ choice to run with these charges, turning what should have been an offbeat story into a smear of Kozinski.

    AMac (c822c9)

  43. Thank you for putting in the time, Patterico.

    This story has become very boring, except for the revelation of the Girls = Evil proof; for decades I’ve heard about that, but never seen it. Thanks again!

    htom (412a17)

  44. [Glares at Scott Jacobs - or, not knowing where exactly SJ is, glares at monitor]

    bridget (add3eb)

  45. Yes, the starting equation should read Girls = time times money. This equation works for Elliot Spitzer, and makes sense.

    biscuiteater (e59cb5)

  46. *waves at Bridget*

    Hi!

    I’ll be running away now… :)

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  47. And you thought it was funny… Admit it…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  48. I am speechless. I dont know whether to laugh or to say hoo-ho! Thanks Patterico for such a thorough and informative post. Now we know how naughty our judges can be. After all, they are just human. I hope they remember that when next they sit in judgement.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  49. Harrumph. :p

    bridget (add3eb)

  50. “The fact that many commentators do not find this stuff troublesome or have seen the same or similar things is more a statement about the pervasiveness of pornography consumption among the anonymous commentariat than anything else.

    Fatuous twaddle. It has nothing to do with the pervasiveness among commentators here. For good or ill, our society traffics in this material in the mainstream. Network TV has a program on prime time about swinging couples.

    Quit trying to justify your faux outrage, it can’t cover up the over-the-top obsession.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  51. This “Best Woman Driver” video is for the ladies. Perfectly safe for work.

    nk (efc7d4)

  52. bridget, #48, agree. The only one I clicked on were the cow-girls. It was degrading and and objectifying and yet two women willfully allowed themselves to degraded and objectified therefore adding to the continuous cultural objectification of all women. Thanks, girls, for that. To me, that’s far more troubling than a middle-aged creepy man’s private cache.

    This part of the post did have me doubled over:

    “…has something of a ridiculous aspect to it, in that her breasts are each individually far larger than her head.”

    In the statement below, I think Cyrus brings up a valid point regarding the subjectivity of porn in our culture. Not only do people react differently but also communities as well. Its tricky to accuse one of prudishness and another of perversity. Is Spencer’s Gifts the newly designated arbiter of what is qualifies as racy or risque?

    ” The answer, of course, depends on the community in which one lives. In Los Angeles, I think the answer would be “no”. In Cour D’Alene Idaho or Provo Utah, I think the answer would be “yes”. “

    Dana (eb599c)

  53. If I enjoy it, it’s erotica; if you enjoy it, it’s smut. If they enjoy it, it’s porn!

    htom (412a17)

  54. As someone who lives about 60 miles away from Litchfield Park, AZ, I couldn’t be more proud.

    Icy Truth (4d32fd)

  55. Dana, obviously your critical statements are pretty important to consider.

    I think that because society is composed of vain people who will always try to act as thoughthey are above anything ugly like porn, it’s very difficult to gauge what is and is not acceptable porn. We have to look at actions over words. Spencers is tolerated in most places in spite of some racy humor, so the fact that Kozinski’s files (that I don’t know that the Judge was completely aware of or procured) are on the same level as Spencers means his (alleged) tastes are not unacceptable to society, but are, in fact, quite normal. The story in teh media, and Cyrus’s lie, was that Kozinski is EXTREMELY perverted and likes the most filthy and vile porn imaginable. Noting that his tastes are akin to what you can find in your shopping mall, and what most adults have laughed at from time to time, is a devastating rebuttal.

    As far as women objectifying their bodies… the fact is that bodies are objects. I’m glad the women have a choice to do what they want, though I am very sorry that some of them make their choices because they have a terrible personal situation or are the victim of psychological problems (or whatever it is that leads women to porn that isn’t good). But the actual ‘porn’ was saw appeared to be consensual. The ‘really bad’ woman driver one appears to be a married couple and seems to be an example of a healthy and feminist sexual relationship.

    I think your objection is to porn in general and in particular to porn that Kozinski’s computer did not actually have, perhaps based on all the lies Cyrus told us. A lot of porn is horrible stuff, but this isn’t that.

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  56. That repeated use of the MasterCard spoof certainly isn’t very creative. Kinda like a one-note stand-up comedian; it gets old really quick.

    Icy Truth (4d32fd)

  57. Not the Alex obviously.

    I just wanted to write and offer support for Cyrus. A lot of people support what you did but like the silent majority we just take comfort in it without raising our voice. I thought the anti-catholic pics were worst.

    alex (2da3f3)

  58. Icy Truth, there are entire websites dedicated to thousands of repetitions of that spoof.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  59. Jem,

    Thank you for a thoughtful response. I am knee-deep in mortar and slate but want to make a quick reply…

    “…composed of vain people who will always try to act as thoughthey are above anything ugly like porn, it’s very difficult to gauge what is and is not acceptable porn.”

    I’m not clear if you are referring to Cyrus, Bridget #38 (whose comment I had responded to), or me, but its a big assumption that it is vanity that causes people to be turned off by porn. And not accurate. There is a moral component involved with people’s not choosing to view it.

    Our inclinations toward the visual and subsequent responses to said stimuli are not in question, it is whether one sees it as an acceptable part of their individual life and/or if it is in the best interest of a society. Is the ‘we do because we can’ reasoning always superior?

    Its as if because Spencer’s carries a similar level of stuff, its a-okay… just a bit racy and naughty. My question is, again, who is the arbiter of what defines racy or pornographic or just downright obscene? Cyrus did make a valid point in noting the subjectivity there is in this issue. I don’t think its easily written off to Spencer’s defining it for us.

    I have not questioned the right of women to objectify themselves, I was however making the bigger point that while those individual women live with the consequences of their decisions, there is an unintended consequence that all women live with – the perception and value of women by men, hence society at large as well.

    I don’t care what’s on some old goober’s computer. Most likely I would haven responded as did DRJ (can’t remember her quote, something about more offensive than thought to be…).

    My point is this: what you say is porn, what Spencer’s says is racy, what a judge says is humor, all is determined with subjectivity. I’m always interested when boundaries shift and expand. I thought bridget’s statement summed it up:

    “I hate pornography. I don’t watch it, think about it, look at it, or buy it. Yet I’m also aware that we live in a free country – one in which normal people enjoy porn, and normal people detest porn”

    Dana (eb599c)

  60. Argh….. btw, I have not been on board with Cyrus in this matter. 15 minutes, people, 15 minutes!

    Dana (eb599c)

  61. Re: BestWomanDriver:

    Can anyone identify the music at the end of the video?

    It sounds to this untrained ear like…Latvian music.

    Just Curious (6ce4e5)

  62. Icy Truth, there are entire websites dedicated to thousands of repetitions of that spoof.

    – That’s what I mean. The judge (or his son, or whomever they gathered these from) isn’t even funny, or witty, or creative.

    Although, I can’t fault their math.

    Icy Truth (4d32fd)

  63. Icy Truth, I suspect that they did not create that ad themselves.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  64. As far as women objectifying their bodies… the fact is that bodies are objects.

    Well, our bodies are also carbon compounds (or, as my friend said on the eve of his organic chemistry final: “We’re really just wet animated charcoal,”). Yet, if someone decided that we are carbon compounds and started burning other humans – thereby treating us as carbon – we would be pretty upset. While our bodies are objects, they are a lot more than objects – most importantly, they are the physical manifestation of our spiritual, emotional, and intellectual selves. That which happens to the body happens to the soul, too – just ask any woman who has been raped if being treated like an object wasn’t harmful to her.

    I agree with Dana about the ramifications for women when other women choose to do this. It becomes normal, and men often come to expect it from women around them. I would prefer that porn not exist for simple lack of willing participants, but we live in a world where it’s supposedly “empowering” to be an animated mannequin.

    bridget (add3eb)

  65. Although, I can’t fault their math.

    See my comment (#5). “And” always implies addition; “of” or “product of” or the like implies multiplication.

    bridget (add3eb)

  66. I’m pretty sure a handjob would not be considered obscene anywhere short of Tehran.

    And what are the chances of getting a bittorrent of the CD put up?

    Erick (a54cc2)

  67. Let me say one more thing, again, about rank-ordering the misconduct.

    The LA Times did what the LA Times did.

    In my view, the mp3s are far more problematic than the porn.

    Judge Kozinski’s interference with my case is far more problematic than either the porn or the file sharing, as it demonstrates a deep-seated problem with the Ninth Circuit’s handlng of judicial corruption and misconduct at the state and federal levels.

    Finally, if what Ralph Mecham claims is true, Judge Kozinski legitimately faces an impeachment trial before the Senate. Judge Kozinski knows this, which is why he is lawyering up with Kirkland & Ellis criminal defense counsel.

    Cyrus Sanai

    Cyrus Sanai (4df861)

  68. Finally, if what Ralph Mecham claims is true, Judge Kozinski legitimately faces an impeachment trial before the Senate. Judge Kozinski knows this, which is why he is lawyering up with Kirkland & Ellis criminal defense counsel.

    Says the lawsuit-happy twat who’s hoping against hope he doesn’t have to pay a million bucks because of his lawsuit-happy ways…

    Shove off, Buzz Killington. You’re a humorless douch with very, very little to contribute to society. If it weren’t for the plants needing carbon dioxide, that “very very little” would be “jack shit”.

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  69. You beat me, bridget, I had missed that part of the comment and was working on a response regarding women (and men absolutely not being objects – if we were we would not have souls and would be devoid of the ability to choose right from wrong, to think, to reason, to express emotion, or to care what happens to said bodies.

    That some may view our bodies as objects only reinforces points made.

    Dana (eb599c)

  70. Cyrus Sanai: “In my view, the mp3s are far more problematic than the porn.”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, Cyrus, but the only person that has admitted downloading and distributing MP3s that they didn’t own is you.

    As for “lawyering up,” since when is representation by counsel considered some kind of incriminating conduct. Do you really practice law??

    Vic Trola (368e9e)

  71. *waves at Bridget*

    Hi!

    Scott “Lothario” Jacobs strikes again!

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  72. Do you really practice law??

    Considering his record with all the lawsuit’s he’s filed, I would say no…

    Scott “Lothario” Jacobs strikes again!

    *snort*

    I wish…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  73. “Finally, if what Ralph Mecham claims is true, Judge Kozinski legitimately faces an impeachment trial before the Senate. Judge Kozinski knows this, which is why he is lawyering up with Kirkland & Ellis criminal defense counsel.”

    Sure Cyrus, because those Mecham claims are such late breaking news. I was under the impression that the Judges from the Third Circuit were in charge of this investigation, which was requested by Kozinski, not you.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  74. well i am upset. when i saw that the lawyer ad was named “hammer.avi” i thought for sure it was Jim “The Texas Hammer” Adler. However, Jim “The Hebrew Hammer” Shapiro looks to be about as fiesty!

    chas (12a229)

  75. just ask any woman who has been raped if being treated like an object wasn’t harmful to her.

    Speaking from intense personal knowledge, allow me to bite here. Allow me also to say I understand your point, Bridget, but I feel this specific assertion was a wee bit emphatic.

    Porn, in any derivative or definition, is not the basis by which men commit the crime of rape against women.

    There is nothing sexual about rape. Rape is all about rage, domination and getting one’s kicks from causing overwhelming fear. Objectification has nothing whatsoever to do with it. The only kind of “object” I was was that of a target who, by chance, fell into a planned crime. That is not to say the event was not harmful, both physically (especially) and mentally, nor that I don’t carry some shards with me to this day, some 20 years later. For many, many years, the remnants are manifested in my notorious hardlined opinion that pain in life is inevitable, and suffering is an option.

    Judges are, in fact, people, just like the rest of us. Acting stupidly is nothing new. I served under a rather famous federal judge in the Northern District of Texas, who would make a point of telling new counsel that “Jimmy Carter put me here and only God can take me out.” I had bruises many times from stern pinches to my bottom, all done in the spirit of fun (on his part; on mine, it hurt like hell). No one — and there were many of us — ever filed a harassment claim. He was an exceptional judge, whom I deeply respected, but he opened his door often and widely that today would have been soundly exploited, thereby diminishing his fairness and wisdom on the bench.

    The very sentiments you express about the objectification of women through this crap can be said of men. In my jaundiced opinion, both genders are today highly objectified, thanks to society. My octogenarian mother would be mortified to see these videos and pics, while I simply find them, for the most part, insipid. What goes as societal standards in print and tv advertising today is astounding to me. My mother would faint if she ever saw Markie Mark (was that his name?) clad only in a pair of Calvin Klein whiteys, yet I found the Vanity Fair cover (is that right?) of a nude, body-painted, pregnant Demi Moore beautiful.

    I also simply don’t choose to look at this crap, the likes of which were found on Kozinski’s server. Bear-breasted, silicon-enhanced women don’t rock my boat, nor does a video of a double-jointed young man self-derocking in his desk chair. But I have seen heaven knows how many stupid email attachments over the years, some of which were so moronic they were actually damned funny.

    What bothers me the most about this stuff on the judge’s home server is that, by naivete’ or stupidity, Kozinski unwittingly allowed himself to become a target of a hyperlitigious asshole who used the files to intentionally and punitively humiliate and diminish Kozinski in public. From many respected comments here from those who have appeared before him, or know of him, it is a true shame that he will not hear this case before his court. All because he opened his own door.

    EHeavenlyGads (f29174)

  76. I just want to note that Cyrus has REFUSED to answer yet another simple question, this time about how much contact he has had with any of the litigants in the obscenity trial that his attack was delayed and delayed to perfectly coincide with. He wants to come here and hype his story over and over, but he refuses to answer questions that are completely legitimate. He is willing to do grievous harm to others, to snoop, to lie, to sell dishonest stories and hype them to absurd lengths, but he will not answer out questions. He is above that.

    Just more evidence that there is a lot more to Cyrus’s assault on legal ethics and decency than his personal vendetta, and something more serious is going on.

    Bridget, the word ‘object’ is a hell of a lot more general than the term ‘carbon based’. I think your comparison is a little unfair. Women’s bodies are objects… women themselves are more than their bodies. That’s all I’m saying. When people idealize the female body, there is still plenty of room for the person inside the body to be more than an object. I do not accept that a nude woman, even one that is ridiculously sexualized, has lost her identity as a person. At least not in the mild stuff we’ve seen on Koz’s supposed server. Sure, there are examples of porn where that line is crossed, but the idea that women who are portrayed in these videos and pics are doing something bad to women everywhere is, in my view, an unfair view. In fact, in this porn, the women are generally in control, and the men are the objects of sexual interest. Women who pursue their interests are not examples of women who have lost their personhood.

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  77. First of all, if girls require time and money

    – Yeah, but “time by money” sounds weird, and “time times money” just sounds silly. Also, “time and money” can be read as a list of factors with no mathematical operation specifified as of yet.

    We were never told how much time and money girls require; that equation ought to have coefficients and constants

    – And therefore the terms themselves can be seen as representing constants, whatever those constants might be; or, you could say that the formula is the constant and the amount of time & money a particular girl requires determines how evil she is.

    Icy Truth (4d32fd)

  78. Did I really just write specifified?

    How embarrassassing.

    Icy Truth (4d32fd)

  79. I wrote ‘by by’ in another post and I wasn’t saying good-bye. It It happens.

    DRJ (81c148)

  80. Look, EHeavenly & Jem, if you want to engage in debate about tangential issues, be aware that I’m not playing. I made one analogy, which, like all analogies, is imperfect. Little did I know that it would lead to asinine line-drawing about the precise demarcation between “objectification” and “enjoying women’s bodies.”

    I made another statement that was consistent with both my personal experiences and knowledge about a subject – a subject which is very broad and encompasses a range of behaviours and psychologies. I cited the majority of those situations, albeit not all of them, in a manner that was sufficient to make my point.

    I will say that the attitude that rape is NOT about sexual gratification, ever, is extraordinarily dangerous to the many young women who find men forcing themselves upon them – men who are not maliciously intent upon degradation, harm, or physical damage, but are quite intent on getting laid and aren’t going to take “no” for an answer – in fact, they aren’t going to take anything short of a shot in the balls as a reason to back off. Now, last time I checked, most women don’t see the need to kick men in the balls if it’s not rape, and, as per your theory of life, it’s not rape if it’s not about fear and intimidation.

    See the problem?

    bridget (add3eb)

  81. Let me say one more thing, again, about rank-ordering the misconduct.

    The LA Times did what the LA Times did.

    In my view, the mp3s are far more problematic than the porn.

    Judge Kozinski’s interference with my case is far more problematic than either the porn or the file sharing, as it demonstrates a deep-seated problem with the Ninth Circuit’s handlng of judicial corruption and misconduct at the state and federal levels.

    And your misdeeds are at the top of the hierarchy of wrongdoing. Intimidating federal judges? Copying mp3s and giving them to Patterico for internet distribution, while covering yourself with the fig leaf of an excuse that you didn’t copy all of them? Breaking into a family’s home server so you could get a judge off one case as part of your “litigation strategy”?

    I hear McDonald’s is hiring.

    bridget (add3eb)

  82. bridget, I agree that people too easily toss around the idea that rape has nothing to do with sex. You make a very good point that many, many alleged rapes are date rapes where the man won’t take no for an answer.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  83. Patterico, please correct me. I know its wrong to pry into people’s personal files kept in a family computer. But dont you think there is a part in all of us that crings a little at the thought of what a Judge stores in his PC. Whatever way we spin it, some of the stuffs on that cd is pure porn. I am not trying to sound morally superior but do we all feel cool with it? Dont we feel as if some of this is in real bad taste? i dont know. Maybe I am wrong. But are we all very proud of Judge Kosinki?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  84. You did, indeed, make excellent points, Bridget. I stand corrected on the realm beyond my experience, and correctly so. My experience is personal and not all-encompasing, and your comment in my regard was well placed.

    I did not mean to offend you and apologize for same, nor did I intend admonishment. My responsive analogy was obviously imperfect, as well.

    But forgive me, Pattterico, if I feel a an attempt at renunciation here. Too easily toss around? The only point from which I can comment is my own experience. Three assailants, injuries ad nauseum, no arrests. Common psychology on experiences such as mine substantiante my assertions as to the motives that precipitated my attack, which by my alma matter account for 71% of reported rapes nationwide.

    Setting that rubbage aside, I stand by all I have written. With regard to Judge Kozinski and Mr. Sanai, I believe Bridget and I are in strong accord.

    EHeavenlyGads (f29174)

  85. “I am not trying to sound morally superior but do we all feel cool with it?”

    Lovey – That is exactly what you are trying to do by trying to get Patterico to agree with you and using “we” throughout your comment. You can easily see by the comment threads, if you believe at all they are representative, that people do not agree with you.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  86. #85
    So there’s no problem then. Everything is cool.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  87. Bridget @ 81 – Nicely done.

    I still don’t buy Cyrus’s explanation of judicial interference in his case. Since he doesn’t answer questions, it’s tough to get his view of the matter.

    I see it this way. No misconduct was found on Judge K’s part the first time around. Sanai claims after the appeal was denied Judege K put the offending article and linked material back up on his website. Even if I grant Sanai’s claim, what is the problem? The appeal had already been denied. Was there another matter pending before the Circuit which would have been colored by the article? Sanai has not mentioned any. The article at that point is also in the public domain and anyone could have found it from other sources. The material which Sanai cryptically refers to as case material is in reality part of court documents that are also publicly available.

    I’d like to understand his thinking here.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  88. “So there’s no problem then. Everything is cool.”

    Lovey – Why don’t you focus on yourself. You are the one who seems to have a problem with it.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  89. No I dont. Dont get me wrong Daley, I dont condemn or judge Kosinki. Infact my anger is towards Cyrus. My point is wouldnt it have been better he didnt keep all those stuff on his pc? I dont think Judge Kosinki is very happy with himself right now. Being such an honourable man as he is. This does little to help his reputation.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  90. EHeavenly,

    It is certainly a subject upon which there are hugely divergent experiences – as will be anything that happens to the tune of several hundred thousand times (or more? a bit less? somewhere in there) a year.

    Those who cannot feel powerful by their own abilities will often seek power by destroying and degrading others – as if that makes them superiour to those whom they harm. Your experience (from my interpretation of what little you’ve said) falls into that category. I cannot imagine that experience, although I need not try to imagine what it is like to find a drunk man (whom one barely knows, at best) forcing himself upon you. One is personal in the extreme; the other, the epitome of impersonal.

    I am not angry; I just wish that every young woman (or old woman, but this applies mostly to young women) would think of rape not by the evil psychology of planned rape, prison rape, rape as a war crime, or DV rape, but as the action of having sex without her consent. That way, she’ll fight like hell without thinking, “But he’s not a bad person!”

    Yes, we concur re: Sanai and Judge Kozinski.

    bridget (add3eb)

  91. “but he’s not a bad person”…or sadly, even worse, “I don’t want to hurt his feelings”. Preconditioning is tough to overcome.

    Dana (eb599c)

  92. My daughters will be taught to go for the kill in such situations…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  93. Thank you, Bridget. You’re a class act and I always enjoy reading your comments, especially throughout today.

    On this subject, I decline further ones.

    EHeavenlyGads (f29174)

  94. love2008,

    I don’t care if Judge Kozinski has a raunchy sense of humor and I doubt he’s done anything that warrants sanctions or impeachment … but I’m not keen on this either.

    DRJ (81c148)

  95. A. files on a public webserver != “private family computer.” You may wish it’s not true, but the internet does not care about your wishes. If it’s listed on Yahoo! it’s public, whether you know it or not.

    B. cumshots = porn. Maybe it’s not “obscene” and therefore not illegal, but a video that ends with a woman licking jizz off her fingers is a bit more, shall we say, “unexpected” than some random boobie shots.

    C. In 9th circuit copyright jurisprudence, “making available” is still equivalent to “willful infringement.” MP3s available for download on a public webserver is, indisputably, “making available.” And the maximum statutory damages for willful infringement is $150,000 per file.

    You want some math? 400 files x (that’s ‘multiplied by’) $150k = sixty million dollars. The best thing that could come out of this tragic episode is that the 9th circuit will reconsider its “making available” opinion from Napster– but if Koz gets creamed for copyright infringement, it’s only fitting that he should be hoist on his own petard.

    tekel (cf33ce)

  96. Patterico,
    This video is in some ways an apt metaphor for what happened to Kozinski.

    Like Kozinski’s site, the actions of the people on the video are ultimately behavior that was done in public. That behavior sounds pretty bad when it’s described, but when you see it, it’s not really as bad as you thought. The people involved didn’t think anyone could see what they were doing. But they should have been aware of the possibility. Because they weren’t, their actions ended up being viewed by people when they did not intend for that to happen.
    Patterico seems to understand my point here. Not inherently bad but should have been careful not to let it get out to the public. An unnecessary scandal. Dont give your enemy weapon to fight you with.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  97. Too easily toss around? The only point from which I can comment is my own experience. Three assailants, injuries ad nauseum, no arrests.

    Well, that’s just awful, and I don’t mean to imply that there’s no rage or violence involved there. I just happen to think that it’s an oversimplification to say that rape is purely about violence and not at all about sex. bridget’s point is that, at least at times, it is wholly (or close to wholly) about the sex.

    But that can be another topic for another time. It feels unseemly for me to hold forth on my opinions about it at length with someone who has survived it.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  98. Are you shitting us Patterico? You think that’s it’s an “ovesimpflication to say that rape is purely about violence and not at all about sex”????

    Well, hell, rape victims experiences be damned. Along with detailed accounts from rapists.

    I have an all too personal account for you, Patterico. And guess what? what I learned from not only my own account, but those I strived to learn from, is that rape is ENTIRELY about control and violence. And to a much LESSER extent about sex. Sex is just the tool to force the victime into the role of victim. Much deeper and quicker than physical abuse.

    Get a clue.

    s.mason (5961d1)

  99. what I learned from not only my own account, but those I strived to learn from, is that rape is ENTIRELY about control and violence. And to a much LESSER extent about sex.

    I agree with that, in many cases, and it’s consistent with what I said. It’s not “purely about violence and not at all about sex.”

    And it is, of course, entirely unfair to suggest that I was dismissive of the experiences of victims.

    However, I am married to a woman who has prosecuted rape cases for years. I can’t tell you how many times she has told me stories that are precisely along the lines of what bridget described when she said:

    I will say that the attitude that rape is NOT about sexual gratification, ever, is extraordinarily dangerous to the many young women who find men forcing themselves upon them – men who are not maliciously intent upon degradation, harm, or physical damage, but are quite intent on getting laid and aren’t going to take “no” for an answer – in fact, they aren’t going to take anything short of a shot in the balls as a reason to back off.

    I have listened to these stories for several years now.

    And so I agree that women need to understand this.

    And college age women, especially, need to be told these stories, and to be very careful about how much they drink. If they only realized how common it was for women to get terribly drunk, wake up, and be convinced she was raped — but not be able to remember it.

    But this is a sidetrack from the comment thread, and I had already declared my intent to abandon it, precisely *because* the thread is inhabited by at least one (and we now learn more than one) victim of violent rape, and *because* I don’t want to seem insensitive to those people by going on about this right now.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  100. In other words, I have a clue, ma’am. Now, let’s change the subject.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  101. Patterico, I’m sorry for derailing your threads this evening.

    Your “themes of defecation” thread seems to have devolved (or evolved, depending on one’s perspective) into a discussion of bourbon and Volvos.

    bridget (add3eb)

  102. That’s evolution.

    I think even the most ardent creationist would have to concede it.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  103. i couldn’t find becoming a bitch on amazon, but there were titles such as

    the quotable bitch: women who tell it like it really is

    skinny bitch

    from the same authors, skinny bitch bun in the oven: a gutsy guide to becoming one hot (and healthy) mother!

    how to get over that bitch and grow balls they can’t resist: the masculine way to love, leave and attract women hey, christmas is just around the corner! finally:

    bitch reloaded

    so there’s a book opportunity here for some enterprising author. favorite line from book review: this book fills a much-needed niche. now, could you please make your book go away so we can have our much-needed niche back?

    assistant devil's advocate (3d0364)

  104. Bridget, didn’t mean to instigate a debate you were uncomfortable with (I mean that sincerely). You’re a solid and interesting commenter and I mean no offense, but you don’t have to engage in debates you don’t want to engage in. The case that this entire attack (by the LA Times) was centered on screwing up was an obscenity trial, so I find the topic important to discuss.

    love2008, why shouldn’t we be proud of Kozinski? Just because he had some porn (if he did in fact have any of these files on that server, and if he did in fact put them there rather than his son or Cyrus putting them there) doesn’t mean we can’t find him to be a 100% respectable and decent and upstanding citizen. He’s not even slightly hypocritical for having porn, after all. It’s his right, and it’s healthy, and it’s normal. Why should we cringe? If you have never looked at porn in this internet age, then you’re the outlier (not claiming you’re unhealthy). It’s something we don’t talk about in polite society, but it’s OK to enjoy porn. It’s not OK to claim that a public servant who has done nothing wrong is now an object of shame for having porn (if he had these files).

    To chime in on the other topic, people who rape usually do not have access to sex. There are outliers… the truly sick monsters out there for whom rape is completely about power, but usually rape is primarily an avenue to relieving sexual starvation (though I grant that all rapes have a major element of power and control).

    It’s therefore understandable, and worth noting that the more a society has access to porn, the rarer the occurrence of rape. People who think porn leads to rape are simply wrong… it prevents rape. It’s the icon of catharsis. There are extremes, of course. Porn that idealizes rape or very demeaning sex is probably going to have an impact on the viewer’s psychology, and that stuff is pure evil.

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  105. Dana, you asked way above who I was referring to by talking about vain people. You mentioned that I may be referring to commenters in this thread specifically. I was speaking far more generally and wasn’t trying to attack anyone here with that comment.

    Everyone is vain. I am, you are, and it’s just a human trait. I know you asked about this way up there, but I wanted to be clear that I wasn’t intending to rudely call out those who disagree with me about porn as though they are morally inferior and too vain. We all enjoy a basic element of privacy about our sexual habits, even our normal ones. Porn is one of those things that is simply very hard to gauge consensus on because it’s highly private.

    It’s the violation of that privacy, over something so harmless, that makes clear what a monster Cyrus is. There’s a short comment in this thread where someone congratulates Cyrus for his fight. Like many of Cyrus’s posts it mentions a vague additional piece of porn we haven’t seen yet in a way that suggests some great perversion (this time, it talks about anti-catholic porn and implies that Kozinski is a bigot). This fits Cyrus’s pattern well enough that I assume he’s using multiple internet connections or a proxy and leaving extra comments to support himself, but just imagine that there really are people out there who think this kind of invasion into our sexual privacy is somehow OK. That’s the real perversion, the real sickness, etc.

    Had Judge Kozinski behaved like Cyrus is and has, he would have thrown right off that court in an instant.

    Whatever your private sexual life is like, it’s none of my business. Part of the reason for that is that it’s fraught with the silence of everyone else’s private silence on the topic (which I place under the general notion of vanity). It would be highly unfair for you to judge my sexual life without the context of other healthy practice, and that’s exactly what Cyrus would have us do (and he’d also deceive us about every aspect under discussion). That’s why I find our common vanity relevant to why we should give Kozinski a huge break.

    Jem (4cdfb7)

  106. “cumshots = porn”

    lol

    alex (cbd4dc)

  107. Jem, I think we’re crossing wires here. In light of Patterico’s #99/#100 I’m not comfortable continuing so I’ll leave w/my #59 comment but understand you were not addressing anyone specifically.

    Dana (f12688)


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