Patterico's Pontifications

4/29/2008

Obama Throws ‘Whatever Relationship He Had’ with Wright Under the Bus (Not Updated)

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 1:01 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

I borrowed this *slightly modified* title from an inspired caption at TalkLeft.

The Instapundit posts a round-up of links on Obama’s response to Wright’s National Press Club speech. Obama was “outraged and saddened” and “[w]hatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed as a consequence of this.” The consensus seems to be that Obama was too lawyerly, especially the “whatever relationship I had” part.

My favorite response from all this – not counting WLS’s post on Andrew Sullivan – was from the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank. Here are the first 2 paragraphs:

“The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, explaining this morning why he had waited so long before breaking his silence about his incendiary sermons, offered a paraphrase from Proverbs: “It is better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

Barack Obama’s pastor would have been wise to continue to heed that wisdom.”

The initial paragraphs are mild compared to the rest. Even the title of Milbank’s article is ominous: “Could Rev. Spell Doom for Obama?” I don’t know but I wouldn’t blame Obama and his staff if they decided to call him Rev. Doom from now on.

UPDATE: Politico reports that Obama plans a “big press conference” to talk about Wright. Never mind. Here’s a transcript of the complete press conference.

– DRJ

105 Responses to “Obama Throws ‘Whatever Relationship He Had’ with Wright Under the Bus (Not Updated)”

  1. Toast … What about the other 20 years? After soaking up the sermons from this loon for 20 years to get his street cred, what can he do now to fix it — Nothing. Everyone now knows the Rev is a loony demagogue.

    Terribly flawed judgement — Not electable.

    bill-tb (26027c)

  2. Either Obama knew about Wright or he didn’t (yeah, of course he knew, but bear with me here):

    If he knew, then he (Obama) is a barefaced Machiavellian liar who hates everything the voters believe in

    OR

    If he didn’t know, then he (Obama) is the most gullible fool in America to not see it for 20 years running.

    Either he knew or he didn’t; pick one.

    ras (fc54bb)

  3. Next up: do the Dems nominate Obama anyway and risk losing their guaranteed black vote forever, not just in the presidential race but down-ticket as well?

    And if they decide to go with Obama, does Hillary sabotage him to further ensure she gets another shot 4 years hence? Does Wright get his revenge in the same manner?

    Best Popcorn Primary ever.

    ras (fc54bb)

  4. This is more reason for those who were never going to vote Obama anyway, to not vote for him. Its all a matter of where you stood from day one. This not enough reason for any true Obama enthusiast to turn against him even though it does little to convince the opponents to have a re-think. It really changes nothing.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  5. Under the bus…. Hummmm. While we are on the topic of mass transit we need to address the needs of the poor who are struggling to fill their gas tanks so they can get to work. Under the Bush administration you seldom have an opportunity to throw anyone under a bus, because there are just not enough public buses running after Katrina because Bush hates black people and poor people.

    Oh… I seem to have been channeling Keith Olbermann.

    huey (9558ff)

  6. I saw some of these recent Wright clips. I didn’t hear much to agree with but I did find it amusing. If church had been like that I might have stuck around longer.

    stef (23c2b4)

  7. With Wright having a Ph.D. perhaps they’d be better off calling him Dr. Doom?

    [Heh. Good point and Welcome, A different Stef. -- DRJ]

    A different Stef (1b929f)

  8. So, what have we learned from this brief detour by the bus of national politics into the scary neighborhood of Black racism, separatism, and anti-American vitriol?

    That the messianic Obama is not above pushing his spiritual mentor under the moving juggernaut, even after declaring he could not disown him.

    I guess Obama’s judgement is not what he and his devotees thought it was…

    RogerCfromSD (628cfd)

  9. This not enough reason for any true Obama enthusiast fanatic to turn against him…

    LOL! Like, what would be enough reason? If Obama shared the Rev’s views? Would that do it? If he were caught strangling Frodo and taking the ring? What?

    [Full disclosure: I am setting you up for a fall since it looks like Revvy Wright is determined to make waves and, since Obama has now disowned him, the gloves are coming off and the dirt will be a' flyin'. So think before replying; the Web has a long memory]

    ras (fc54bb)

  10. The Obama cultists will continue down their merry path of “changiness” and “hopeness,” in the fervent belief that only the one true candidate can heal the racial divisions in this country. To the rest of us, he’s just another politico, race -hustling for whatever he can get. Quel surprise.

    Dmac (9dd3a1)

  11. First it was that Obama did not do enough to distance himself from his angry Pastor. He ought to have condemned and denounced him. Now he tries to to do just that on the wake of this man’s latest outrage and now; Obama throws his PAstor under the bus. Obama cant seem to ever do right by some of us. I guess it comes with the territory. Like I said in number 4, this is just another good reason for the Obama opposers to never vote for him. And for the Obama supporters, this is nothing. It changes nothing.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  12. In my humble opinion, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on here with the Rev. Wright. I think he’s decided the duo of Sharpten and Jackson needs to become a trio with him as the third person. This racism stuff brings in big bucks, and now that he’s a retired pastor building his multi-million $ mansion in Chicago maybe he needs the cash. So the last thing he wants is for Obama to become president. That would dilute the “America hates blacks” mantra that they all like to spew. What a despicable man.

    jwarner (0c2175)

  13. I think the reality of Obama’s foray into “black religiosity” having been for political expediency will become the narrative of his Wright-Stuff connection.

    Everytime the Dems or Obama make the intellectually dishonest “100 year war” claim against McCain, I hope to see him hit back with a “1000 Sundays with the Wright-Stuff” yet he supposedly never knew the man.

    WLS (68fd1f)

  14. BREAKING NEWS!

    CHICAGO (LNS) — Rev. Jeremiah Wright has just admitted that the rumors are true, and that he is now in cahoots with the Clinton campaign.

    In a statement released this afternoon, Wright admitted that he grew tired of the fawning over Barack Obama “as if he was some sort of some sort of new savior! I only have one black savior, that is Jeeezus!”

    The final breaking point came when in a private meeting, the Obama campaign refused to allow for any sort of cabinet position for Wright. “He said I could not be his right hand or his left hand man, so I decided that if he wanted to be treated like a messiah, I would oblige him by betraying him for thirty pieces of silver.”

    The current value of thirty 90% Pre-1965 $1000.00 US coins is around $360,000.00. But in a sweetener to the deal cut with longtime Clinton supporter Don Tyson of Tyson Foods, Wright will be paid to endorse his own brand of poultry.

    Sometime before the November election, check the meat section of your local supermarket. There you will find Rev. Wright’s “America’s Chickens!” Future TV and radio advertisements will feature Wright in his signature booming voice declaring, “AMERICA’S CHICKENS!….Bring ‘em home…to ROAST!”

    - 30 -

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  15. love2008 – Obama cant seem to ever do right by some of us.

    Your post says it all. Obama is not a leader.

    It changes nothing. – Just like Obama.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  16. That is very clever, L.N.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  17. DRJ – my comments keep getting caught in the filter, (no links on this one) has something changed?

    [Apogee - I found one comment there and cleared it. I don't know what's wrong but, in the past, I've had a comment get hung up and then the next several comments were caught, too. I'm not sure why but maybe the system 'remembers' this person could be a spammer. -- DRJ]

    Apogee (366e8b)

  18. #14
    Is this a joke or what? Very funny. LOL.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  19. Its a joke, but it has a lot of truth in it. It is obvious that Wright is mad at Obama and is now intentionally trying to harm him.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  20. I’ve updated the post to add that Obama plans a “big press conference” about Wright.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  21. #19
    Then thats good for Obama. If there is one enemy Obama really needs to make at this point it is Rev. Wright. He will do Obama alot of good fighting him.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  22. DRJ, I think that conference just occurred earlier.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  23. DRJ #17 – I haven’t spammed you guys in weeks!

    Apogee (366e8b)

  24. SPQR,

    Was that the “outraged” press conference? I obviously think he needs to say more but I guess we can forget about the update.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  25. Well, much like our dear friend, Andrew Sullivan, it’s better late than never, I suppose for Sen. Obama to wake up and smell the ….garlic. (oh, wait…that’s my nose not his)

    Sen. Obama after 20 years has come around to understanding just precisely who Jerepariah White is, was, and always has been. A Doctor of Divisity.

    What gets curiouser and curiouser…is how it took most sane people 20 minutes, not 20 years to observe the hate and bile streaming out of every pore of Jerepariah…especially given Sen. Obama’s training to spot such things.

    After all, Sen. Obama grew up being taught religion from an anthropologist point of view, what were the underpinnings, why it evolved as it had, what inspired it.

    Yet, …when he finally decides to embrace ONE religious worldview, to give himself over fully to it…he loses every ounce of interest in what it’s about, how it founded, what inspired it.

    It’s this Sgt. Shultz-like “I know nuttink!” refrain that cuts against the grain each and every time some member of his inner embrace is revealed as an America-hating, angry, hostile, extremist.

    Ayers and Dorhn were merely “neighbors” from the Hyde Park community…”Frank” goes unexplained and unexamined, Sam the chief blogger is a Chomskyite, and Jerepariah was just a retired pastor…until…they aren’t just those things.

    Well…Dohrn was really “digging it” when the Manson family stuck a fork in Sharon Tate.

    All these America-hating rats are helping to stick a fork in Sen. Obama’s candidacy.

    cfbleachers (4040c7)

  26. Obama says:

    “But there wasn’t anything constructive out of yesterday. All there was was a bunch of rants that aren’t grounded in truth. And I can’t construct something positive out of that.
    I can understand it. People do all sorts of things. And as I said before, I continue to believe that Reverend Wright has been a leader in the Southside. I think that the church he built is outstanding. I think that he has preached in the past some wonderful sermons. He provided valuable contributions to my family.”

    He says “I can’t construct anything positive out of [Wright's statements]”
    out of one side of his mouth and then out of the other comes a positive rehabilitative excuse for Wright.
    Outfreakingstanding work there Senator Obama… for a two faced marshmallow

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  27. How about this Howler from Baracky Obamessiah:

    “Asked whether the matter should raise questions about his judgment, Mr. Obama did not directly answer, saying: “I did not vet my pastor before I decided to run for the presidency.”

    Well, some people might wonder then just what it was you were doing during those 1000 Sundays spent as a member of his church.

    WLS (68fd1f)

  28. So much for the “judgment to lead”, eh SteveG?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  29. WLS, or more importantly why did he consult specifically with Wright before running for President?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  30. #26
    What exactly do you want him to do? He is stuck between his relationship with his former spiritual head and his candidacy. He is doing the right thing. He is condemning aspects of the man that he feels are wrong while at the same time maintaining why he cant throw him under the bus. The man is stuck. Have a heart! But like I said, he wouldnt have done anything right in your eyes. You still wouldnt have voted for him anyway. Why is he so hated?

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  31. love2008, I don’t want Obama to do anything other than what is doing – which is show that he’s a poor liar. I already know that he did not find anything to disagree with regarding Wright’s hate-filled sermons and whacky conspiracy theories until they started to undermine his chances at the nomination.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  32. #26 Obamatard

    Duh, hated? Maybe despised by some of us because he’s a duplicitous charlatan, affirmative-action Prez wannabe mulatto seeking street cred with the gangstas and bashing whitey at every turn? WHERE are the normal average typical citizens in hsi universe? Why do you obamanation cultists worship him so much, other than promises of Change! and Hope! ? Do you also get a tingle up your leg when little girly man hussein orates?
    If you love his class warfare and tax and spend, socialist control of health, etc. you could have opted to support the Breck Girl, who had a full senate term and experience of running as Lurch’s VP in 2004. Or was his palllor too much to handle?

    madmax333 (1166a1)

  33. I saw a guy doing the crossword puzzle in church once…. his wife looked a little displeased.
    Maybe that is what the Obama family did in the pews on Sunday mornings. I hear the NY Times used to run a fine Sunday puzzle.
    I wonder if perhaps the crossword puzzle is where Barack learned the words “repudiate” and “renounce” because those words don’t seem to mean anything to him except as puzzle fill-ins…. well he is a lawyer so maybe he learned those words at Harvard during the sessions on what to say to mitigate the damage when your client is guilty as sin and doesn’t seem to give a crap

    This whole idea that Obama slept or fiddled away 20 years of Sunday sermons is unbelievable to me, but the true believers who buy off on it have to wonder about his sincerity… or at least his attention span. This guy is to lead the free world, but he can’t remember the highlights of the sermons from a pastor that repeats himself in front of an audience that is way animated?

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  34. #31
    And how has he lied? I think that some people are a little disturbed by the possibility that finally this Rev. Wright episode is about to come to an end. Now Obama is going to do what he should have done from the start. Once done there will still be people who will still be grasping at the straws of “why didnt he leave the church? How could he have sat through all that for 20 years? ….blah, blah, blah!.” as if they have not kept ties with whacky people in their lives. He that has no sin among you, let him cast the first stone.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  35. love2008, Obama lied when he claimed to never have heard Wright’s outrageous statements before, and he has lied when he pretends that Wright was not influential in his political campaign up to the moment he decided to dump him on the side of the road.

    Just comparing Obama’s statements on Sunday with today’s is illuminating on just how much Obama is willing to change a story to mislead.

    No judgment at all.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  36. Love2008 — he’s not hated, he just comes up way short of being legitimate Presidential material at this point in his life and career. Having a little fun with his name is simply a method of ridiculing the “Cult of Barack” that is his base.

    Funny thing that when the right wing radio started commenting on the fact that young women seemed to consistently faint at his rallies, only to have him ready and able to offer them a bottle of water, suddenly those fainting episodes stopped.

    Obama’s candidacy is a vapid facade.

    He claims he’s a “unifier” — but in reality he comes from a racially and politically polarized South Side Chicago neighborhood that rivals Berkeley in its left-wing zealotry.

    He has not one signficant legislative accomplishment — or even legislative effort —
    that he has worked across party lines to bring to fruition. Where is the history of him applying his “unifying” touch to anything or anyone beyond a speech to an assembled mass?

    Simply pointing out errors in judgment he has made is not “hating”.

    WLS (68fd1f)

  37. Done better by Claude Rains: “I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!”

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  38. love2008, when and if the Wright problem ever really goes away, then we’ll start on the even worse problem – the terrorist Bill Ayers

    SPQR (26be8b)

  39. It isn’t so much that Obama sat through it for 20 years, although I certainly think that is fair game.
    It is the disingenuousness (fancy word for liar) of his response that in 20 years he hadn’t heard remarks like these from Wright, nor had he discussed them with others from his church.
    When I used to attend church, I’d run into some people who also attended and we’d inevitably discuss the sermon, the lame attempts at jokes, the funny stuff etc.
    But Obama seems to want us to believe that he has drawn a total blank on it.
    As I said before, that is simply unbelievable.
    Look at the Press conference Wright spoke at…. listen to the YouTube snippets of Wright speaking at his church.
    Notice how animated Wright is and how much he repeats a theme?
    Notice how the crowd is also very animated and responsive… but Obama says he has no idea what that stuff the crowd reacts to so loudly was.
    Baffled really.
    Look at Obama’s gradual path of dishonesty. His story nuances Wright further and further away from spiritual mentor who is as close to him as his grandmother to whatever the spin today is.

    By the way, that whole “he is without sin cast the first stone” quote needs to be put into context. Obama is not an innocent victim here. He is the victim of his own dishonesties. Good to see Al Sharpton chuck one at Obama from way out in left field today in a fit of fratricide.
    Anyway, look up the story in the Bible. Remember that women in the middle east still get stoned to death today because they’ve been raped or are accused of infidelity

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  40. #38
    so you agree with me that this Wright issue is fading away? Atleast thats one thing we agree on. We are making progress. And as for the Bill Ayers saga, this too shall pass.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  41. No, love2008, neither will fade away until Obama has lost either the nomination or the election.

    America won’t elect a man who is so closely associated with hatred, conspiracy theories, anti-semitism, anti-americanism and domestic terrorism.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  42. #39
    Taking you at your arguement, I agree that he should have been more forthcoming and honest about how much of that hate stuff he heard. That said, but do you honestly believe as some will have us think that Rev. Wright preached just one message for 20 years!?! That is ludicrous to say the least. As a practising, regular church goer, StevG, did your Pastor or Priest preach just one sermon for twenty years? Over those years he must have spoken on a variety of topics. Like, Faith, Love, Holiness, Evangelism, Diligence, Hope and maybe sometimes Politics. Its inconceivable to argue that Obama sat in his church and just heard his Pastor preach on Hate, HATE, HATE!for twenty years! I think we are all smarter than that.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  43. ” Obama can’t seem to ever do right by some of us. I guess it comes with the territory.”

    Love2008,

    Wright said nothing new these past three days, nothing that reflected a different course of thinking, so why would Obama do this if for no other reason that his advisors finally made the point that it was do or die and it was time to do the appeasement dance.

    Its not a matter of not doing right by some of us, its a matter of Obama being unable to stand firm with conviction – either way. I lose respect for someone who only disavows and cuts the ties with a person like Wright because the numbers look bad, not because out of the blue he says ugly racist crap. Like I said, there was nothing new in the past three days.

    Also, Obama has made it very clear how little he thinks of the discernment of voters.

    Dana (6506e6)

  44. #41
    A little presumptuous for you to say how americans will vote. speak for yourself. Americans are not easily cowed into fear, they will vote their hearts, not the opinions of conspiracy theorists.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  45. love

    if how you choose to characterize Wright is true, then don’t you think these kinds of controversial sermons would stand out? They’d be all the buzz if Dr. “Jesus is Love” Wright all the sudden busts out with “America puts AIDS and drugs in our cities” on Sunday. Right?

    Again, I ask you to review the YouTube clips of Wrights sermons and look at the animated responses to his histrionics.
    Wright clearly has a style of teaching and he relishes the moment. He loves his own jokes a bit much for me and by the way… I got it the first time.
    Wright reminds me of Dick Gregory when Gregory starts ranting on and blaming black on black murder on the US government spraying manganese at night into the streets of the black community and seeing Tavis Smiley stand up and applaud egging him on.

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  46. Evidently, you think only you can be “presumptuous”. Amusingly, your presumption is less attached to reality.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  47. Dana, he is doing it now because it is the right thing to do. If he really wanted to score political points he would have denounced the man from the get-go. But being the kind of not-wanting-to-hurt-people’s-feelings kind of guy (which sometimes can work against even the best of intentions), which he is, he didnt. He didnt do it before now when it would have been the politically correct thing to do because he did not think it would be an issue. He must have thought that americans have moved past the politics of racism and suspicion. He is addressing the matter now because he has to. What would you do in his shoes? You see, spiritual matters are very complicated. Its not a cut and fix job. Think about having someone lord over your spiritual life for twenty years; speaking to you, praying for you, and basically being your Father in many ways. Its not very easy to stand up to them even when you feel they are wrong. Because you see them as representing God in your life, its difficult to just stand up and leave because of one area of disagreement. Its very complicated. In some churchs, Pastors are almost worshipped as gods and incuring their wrath could mean getting God against you since they are his messengers and reps. Its a difficult situation to find yourself. Trust me on that.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  48. If he really wanted to score political points he would have denounced the man from the get-go.

    Nonsense, and miss his “Sister Soljah” moment?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  49. love2008 – This issue is not fading away, nor will the beliefs and views of everyone who Obama kept as friends, confidantes and mentors fade away. That is what his campaign is about, and he is primarily responsible for that.

    Just so you’re up to speed, the election of the President of the United States is a chance for the American people to judge who would be the best man for the office.

    The paucity of Obama’s political record, along with his platform of vague platitudes, necessitates that the American electorate focus on what is available to judge the fitness of the man running for the most powerful position in this country and arguably the world. Unfortunately for Obama, what is available to the American people is only his record of association with others, and his support/denunciation of said others.

    He has purposely chosen to be light on information, and the people have sought out what they can to make their decision.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  50. when your pastor is a tar baby

    assistant devil's advocate (bd3f63)

  51. #45
    dont get me wrong Steve, I totally disagree with Wright’s defamatory denounciations. I think they are despicable and totally unfair. Listen, if Wright feels America is so bad, let him do the right thing and just pack his bags and move down to Africa! You dont bite the finger that feeds you. America is no angel but America still remains the leading voice in the fight against human rights abuse and terrorism. Not to mention AIDS in Africa and relief for victims of war and natural disasters. America definitely has its negatives but they are outweighed by her positives. Why is everybody coming to America if they are so evil? I condemn and denounce him completely. He has not shown a good example as a man of God. America has done more to lift up the dignity of mankind than any nation in history. Heck, which other white nation on earth will find people talking about voting for a black president? Thats unheard of. Even if he doesnt get it, the fact that he got this close bears testimony to this great nation. Long live The United States of AMERICA!

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  52. Ah

    Of the Compton Tar Babes I presume

    (is that still their nickname?)

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  53. I agree with Dana that there was nothing essentially new in Rev. Wright’s performances over the past few days. The Obama defenders who falsely claimed people were missing context because of soundbites, now have the Reverend himself saying he stands by his prior words. He also names Cone, another race baiter, as the father of the Black Liberation Theology he practices. Check out his writings sometime.

    I would be very interested if the Obamatons here, I’m looking at you Lovey and stef, can point to anything new Wright said which would lead Obama to change his mind about the man. If not, I’ve got to conclude that the only reason for Obama’s actions today are political expediency, that the national exposure given Wright’s addresses on Sunday and Monday prevented Obama’s media army from sweeping coverage of the events under the carpet. The lunacy of the man was too great to ignore.

    I also have absolutely no doubts that Obama knew all about Wright’s positions on these controvewrsial issues years before deciding to run for national office. Absolutely none.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  54. Evidently, you think only you can be “presumptuous”. Amusingly, your presumption is less attached to reality.

    Comment by SPQR
    SPQR, I am sorry if my comment about being presumptuous offended you. Didnt mean it in a bad sense. Friends?

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  55. Love 2008:

    But being the kind of not-wanting-to-hurt-people’s-feelings kind of guy (which sometimes can work against even the best of intentions), which he is, he didnt.

    I have this image of Obama negotiating with leaders like Kim Jong Il and Ahmadinejad, and it’s not a pretty image.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  56. love2008, oh please.

    “he is doing it now because it is the right thing to do.”

    Who determines its ‘right’? What makes it right today and not yesterday, or a week ago, or a month ago? As I stated, Wright said nothing new today.

    “But being the kind of not-wanting-to-hurt-people’s-feelings kind of guy.”

    You don’t see this as a serious problem for someone who, if he becomes POTUS, will have to have balls of steel when confronting dictators, thugs, and tyrannists throughout the world? He can’t even be straight up with a pastor because he might hurt his feelings? This doesn’t inspire confidence, does it?

    “…because he did not think it would be an issue.”

    Such an immense lack of discernment is also troubling. How can he not think that Americans wouldn’t take the greatest offense at Wright’s racism and plain stupidity (AIDs staetment)? If you think that is what Obama thought, then again, his cluelessness doesn’t inspire confidence either.

    “He must have thought that americans have moved past the politics of racism and suspicion.”

    oh love2008, you’re better than this drivel. No projection…no one’s buying.

    “He is addressing the matter now because he has to. “

    And why, love 2008, does he have to? (hint: think polling numbers….)

    I don’t disagree with you re the difficulty some may have with dealing with their pastors. But here’s the bottom line: the pastor is a leader of the flock, the representative of the Good Shepherd charged with leading their flock to Christ (not to their political beliefs). The pastor is held accountable by the bodies fillign the pews. If no one has the backbone and spiritual insight to hold him accountable, to Matthew 18 him, to speak the truth to his face, then everyone in those pews has assumed the doctrine that that pastor has espoused – through their silence and thus by default. What the pastor is espousing from the pulpit is indeed doctrine. We’re not talking about women wearing headcoverings, we’re talking about ugly, vile, racism from the pulpit form the mouth of the shepherd of his flock. And the stuff that is the antithesis of what Christ represents.

    What a sad statement to say that Obama was too weak to be able to make a solid stand and call his pastor into account, with one or two witnesses, like the Book instructs. Not for the sake of his family, not for the sake of his own personal convictions…but what has moved him to do so are those dang polling numbers slipping away. What a motivator.

    After a pastor is confronted, with witnesses, and still refuses to acknowledge or change as scripture deems, the believer is to walk. Because that is better than to sit under the teaching and authority of a fraud.

    Dana (6506e6)

  57. love2008 – He must have thought that americans have moved past the politics of racism and suspicion.

    Apparently you haven’t. Obama is not all black men. He is a man. An individual. And his confusion over how to present himself shows that he is unfit for the Presidency.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  58. “Pastors are almost worshipped as gods and incuring their wrath could mean getting God against you since they are his messengers and reps.”

    Oh for crying out loud, love2008, you really must read some sound theology. This is such a defeating load of crap and do you really believe God is nothing more than puppet that some ass of a pastor can ‘get God against you’???? Tell me this is acknowledged bullshit, please!

    Theology 101: Pastors are men. Fallen, craven, sinful. They are redeemed like any other believer – through the blood of Christ. They have no power over God, they have no influence on God, they have no NOTHING on God. They are but fallible, finite beings with undeniable cloddy feet of clay.

    They are not where your trust is to be.

    Dana (6506e6)

  59. Hey Daley,
    I am no “Obamaton” neither am I a fanatic. I am just the contrary voice that keeps the conversation objective and interesting. I am the other side of the story that leads to a comprehensive and complete grasp of the issue at hand. I am the impartial observer and witness. And am happy you dropped by.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  60. Dana writes: “What makes it right today and not yesterday, or a week ago, or a month ago? As I stated, Wright said nothing new today.

    Bingo.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  61. daleyrocks and dana hit the provervial nail right on the head. This is nothing other than political expediency. From a politician that is supposed to be different, and has promised hope and change, he turns out to be nothing but a normal disingenuous politician. So far, Granny and the Rev. have been thrown under the back of the bus. Ayers and Rezko are still out there.

    Racists

    JD (5f0e11)

  62. I am the other side of the story that leads to a comprehensive and complete grasp of the issue at hand. I am the impartial observer and witness.

    Bullshit Lovey – You can’t be both the other side of the story and be impartial. You are getting increasingly twisted up in your shorts tonight defending Obama. The mask is slipping.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  63. Hey y’all, we are all on the same side. The point about Obama thinking Americans have moved past racial problems is not to be misconstrued as pulling the race card by me, I am no racist. I am just saying he believed in the fact that Americans have moved past racial divisions. And I know the have. That is not in question. i am not trying to be a politician here. And to Dana in 58, I agree with you. Pastors are men. Nothing more. They are not always right. There are good Pastors and not so good ones. Its all in the mix. And to the great DRJ, dealing with your Pastor is not the same as dealing with a terrorist turned dictator. These are two different playing fields. Its like saying a young man who is quiet and respectful around his parents will be a pushover and a sissy among his bully friends. Hardly. A christian has two characters, the character of a meek lamb and a character of a lion. When he is in the presnce of God, he manifests the side of the lamb, harmless, cute and subdued. But in the face of his enemies he’s not going to be a meek and mild little lamb, he is going to be a lion! So you cant judge him with that. He is tough. To be where he is now shows just how tough he is. Maybe not tough enough for some of us.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  64. JD, be fair. Unlike the grandmother, Wright decided to throw Obama under the bus in a bid to become the new Jesse Jackson/Farrakhan. So Obama throwing him under the bus was only doing unto others…

    kishnevi (225b9d)

  65. Bullshit Lovey – You can’t be both the other side of the story and be impartial. You are getting increasingly twisted up in your shorts tonight defending Obama. The mask is slipping.
    LOL. Okay Daley, who are you defending? And what have I really said here that makes you think i am defending Obama? I also have my issues with the Ill. Sen. that most of you dont seem to point out here. Very serious issues. But he has alot of problems on his hands already. Wont like to add to his sorrows.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  66. kishnevi – Even if that’s true, it shows a poor ability on the part of Obama to gauge Wright’s personality and either preempt or neutralize the damage before it occurred. Not someone I want dealing with other world leaders, as he admits to having 20 years to figure it out.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  67. love

    would you please write down a few of the issues with Obama we’ve missed?

    SteveG (71dc6f)

  68. And what have I really said here that makes you think i am defending Obama?

    Love – That would be your comments.

    I also second SteveG’s request for you to bring on the other issues related to Obama – for the sake of the American people and impartiality.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  69. My name is Love2008. I am the voice of compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, equality, and reason. I am for justice and mercy. My vision is to see love triumph in all of man’s affairs on earth. And I believe that if we can all learn to love each other and be our brothers’ keepers, we will make this world a better place to live in. A heaven on earth. And to achieve this it must start here, in our hearts. Love to all in 2008 and beyond.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  70. My name is DRJ. I believe in freedom, capitalism, and the rule of law. My vision is to see all the world’s people have a meaningful chance at life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To achieve this starts with an understanding of which forms of government and economic systems work and which ones don’t. Freedom, the rule of law, and economic competition to all in 2008 and beyond.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  71. #70

    All I am saying is, is give peace a chance.

    War-what is it good for? Absolutely nothing….say it again.

    Let’s all hold hands and sing Kumbaya and heal national racial wounds by showing the world Obama be da man for Prez.

    War is not the answer. Only love can conquer hate. If we’d only show a little love to the long persecuted Palis, achmedinnerjacket, fidel and the misunderstood/treated badly by US Imperialism jihadists, all would be a utopian world of nirvana.
    And we cannot bring back the victims, but there is really no reason not to agree with liberal loons and compromise with them. Too many black men are rotting in prison. Let’s set them free, including Mumia. Hey, let’s not racist, free Charlie Manson, the Unibomber, Eric Rudolph, Ira Eichorn and Marc Rich. Oops, sorry bill Clinton already did pardon him even though he never faced justice. And of course Ayers and Dohrn are heroes of the hate america academic elite and should hold prominent positions in any Obama administration.

    Maybe you need your meds adjusted or perhaps you’re really that naive.

    madmax333 (dcffb7)

  72. advantage drj.

    assistant devil's advocate (7c83eb)

  73. Game, Set, and Match – DRJ

    Apogee (366e8b)

  74. My name is not nk. I believe I am the reincarnation of Cleopatra, the second daughter of Ptolemy Auletes*. But now I live in America and I want a President who loves America more than he loves himself and will dedicate himself solely to her prosperity and perpetuation if elected. In a wise and effective manner. And Barack Born-To-Run Obama is not that man.

    *No, I don’t. Well … not most of the time, anyway. ;)

    nk (1f1707)

  75. NK, why settle for second best, and someone who came out a loser in the end? Go for Zenobia, Queen of Palmyra.

    71–bravo to DRJ.

    kishnevi (7a9e8b)

  76. I can’t do that, kishnevi. See here.

    nk (1f1707)

  77. Kishnevi, I think Thomas Harlan kills Zenobia off in his Oath of Empire series.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  78. As a “typical” white grandmother …….

    where was I going with this? oh yes, INSULTING. that’s what these two clowns (obama and wright) are doing to the American people.

    PatAZ (56a0a8)

  79. assistant devil’s advocate is just a name i made up. i believe in barbecue, mexican food and sushi. i stand for italian red wine and margaritas made from chinaco tequila, fresh-squeezed lime juice and grand marnier. i support homemade chocolate ice cream made with melted couverture from the finest chocolatiers and valrhona cocoa powder. in a month, after my basil plants take hold, i’ll be getting another parma ham from igourmet.com (like last year) and eating like an italian padrino all summer long.

    assistant devil's advocate (1009a5)

  80. For the last few cycles the Dems have been offering us soap opera, emotional gratification. It’s sad that we haven’t been offered a high-calibre woman or black candidate, because the good news is I believe America is ready to elect either, if the quality is there.

    Agree with #80, all this insults the intelligence of Americans, but I’d include Mrs. Clinton too. I won’t vote for Mrs. Clinton, though we are both female. I’m hoping to see more black people decline to vote for a man with obvious problems, rather than vote race, and to show they are becoming unwilling to be manipulated with identity politics. Doesn’t seem to be happening yet, though.

    jodetoad (57af62)

  81. I am just saying he believed in the fact that Americans have moved past racial divisions.

    Jeremiah Wright is an American. Quite a patriot too, I’m told. Military service and everything.

    There is no way on earth that you could know Jeremiah Wright and that you could be a longstanding member of Trinity and believe that Americans on the whole have moved past racial divisions. If you know who and what Louis Farrakhan is, you could not believe that America has moved past racial divisions. Both of those men would tell you in no uncertain terms that this has not happened, and they also prove the point.

    Pablo (99243e)

  82. Hey,Pablo,
    Where have you been?
    I am not necessarily defending these people, just offering my on view. With the recent revelations, it is hard not to wonder why Obama remained under this nut-case pastor for all those while. But then, things happen. Its like wondering why some catholics remained in the catholic church after the sex abuse scandal that involved some priests. There are Americans who presently leave in some anti-American countries like Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, and even palestine. That doesnt mean they are not patriotic. It doesnt mean they support all those hate american rhetorics. Its just the way it is. They are there because of their personal interests. And I know that no Pastor preaches one message for 20years! So lets keep it in proper perspective.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  83. Hi love2008, been busy in meatspace.

    I am not necessarily defending these people, just offering my on view.

    And I am not condemning them, in this context. I’m simply noting that they are the embodiment of racial division, as are Sharpton, Jackson and others. Obama cannot possibly believe that racial divisions are a thing of the past when he’s well aware of so many influential people who are absolutely steeped in them.

    Its like wondering why some catholics remained in the catholic church after the sex abuse scandal that involved some priests.

    Remaining in the church is not the same as remaining quiet. Lay Catholics came unglued over those revelations and called loudly for the heads of those responsible. Bernard Law getting the boot out of the Boston diocese is an example of the impact of laypeople in that scandal.

    And I know that no Pastor preaches one message for 20years!

    Pastors should be preaching a consistent message. They may come at it from different angles, and they may touch on current events in real time, but the message should not change, they should be preaching the foundations of the faith. Wright’s message has not changed. He’s been preaching BLT for his entire career.

    Pablo (99243e)

  84. #85
    Meatspace?!
    I agree with you totally. But do you really think you can find one black candidate who does not have a tie with one race baiting relative or realtionship in his or her life. It does not however prove they agree with whatever they say. Blackness and racism is a mixed up complicated thing that requires alot of skill and training to resolve. Obama cannot agree with Rev Wright because he cant, he is also white. He is caught in the mix of it and if he seizes this moment, might be the one to brigde the divide.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  85. There are many bridges laid across the Melanin River. Nationality, language, religion, community to mention a few. Wright wants them torn down.

    Nationality? God Damn America.
    Religion? Rich white folk killed the black Jesus.
    Language? Ebonics.
    Community and culture? Obama know what it is to be a child in a single-parent home. Hillary don’ know that.

    nk (1f1707)

  86. love2008 – do you really think you can find one black candidate who does not have a tie with one race baiting relative or realtionship in his or her life

    You forgot to finish the thought: but, more importantly – elucidates specific plans should he/she reach office, a firm grasp of international relations, common sense and leadership, as well as sincerely recognizing the importance of the American experiment in liberty?

    Yes, I do think it’s possible to find that candidate (doesn’t matter what color to me). But Barack Obama isn’t that candidate.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  87. “He must have thought that americans have moved past the politics of racism and suspicion.”

    And yet he spent 1000 Sundays in a church dedicted to the politics of racism and suspicion.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  88. But do you really think you can find one black candidate who does not have a tie with one race baiting relative or realtionship in his or her life.

    Michael Steele comes to mind. If he has such a relationship, it’s isn’t apparently obvious and it doesn’t show in his speech or his positions. If it exists, it hasn’t been formative for him.

    Pablo (99243e)

  89. Whatever relationship we had …

    And everyone just bought this crap. He married Baracky, baptized his children, Baracky gave his church over $50,000, he was the inspiration for books and speeches that Baracky has given, Baracky called him his spiritual advisor and mentor, and appointed him to be an advisor to his campaign. Calling it “whatever relationship we had” is complete and utter bullshit, and the media just lapped it up like it was a carpaccio of Kobe Beef.

    JD (75f5c3)

  90. But who’s the Judas?

    nk (1f1707)

  91. Michael Steele comes to mind. If he has such a relationship, it’s isn’t apparently obvious and it doesn’t show in his speech or his positions. If it exists, it hasn’t been formative for him.

    Comment by Pablo
    so Pablo you agree with me that just like Michael Steel, Obama has not shown any sign in his speeches and his behavior so far that he is affected by these negative relationships in his life. I will like to see evidence that he has. Knowing someone, even for twenty years does not mean you agree with everything they say. Its just common sense knowledge.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  92. *No, I don’t. Well … not most of the time, anyway.
    Hey now! Give me a call when you are.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  93. so Pablo you agree with me that just like Michael Steel, Obama has not shown any sign in his speeches and his behavior so far that he is affected by these negative relationships in his life.

    Oh, he most certainly has been affected by his relationship with Wright. It currently threatens to ruin his Presidential campaign off the rails. This point has been done to death, but Obama didn’t simply know Wright. He sought him out and wove him into the fabric of his life. He made him “like family”. He wasn’t just some guy Obama happened to know. You want to see evidence? Read Obama’s books paying specific attention to his discussion of Wright’s influence on him.

    Pablo (99243e)

  94. love2008 – Punitive windfall profits taxes, BS hopey changey rhetoric, hanging out with domestic terrorists, and socialized healthcare, and vowing surrender in Iraq, just for starters.

    JD (5f0e11)

  95. Love2008 – Why are you putting words in Pablos mouth. He oviously has said nothing along the lines of what you are attributing his agreement to in your comment #93. Now you are resorting to flat out dishonesty.

    Why do you have to lie to defend Obama?

    daleyrocks (906622)

  96. Alright Pablo, heres the big question, have you ever been a supporter of Obama and if you were can this Wright’s mess be enough to change your mind?

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  97. Well Daleyrocks,
    Pablo never said anything about me putting words in his mouth. Where did you get that from? And;
    Why do you have to lie to defend Obama?

    I am not lying to defend anybody. You are really taking this thing personally. So someone who does not agree with your point of view is a liar? Right? i just dont agree that a man should be thrown under the bus because of what someone else said which he disagrees with. It’s that simple.

    love2008 (d2a57f)

  98. i just dont agree that a man should be thrown under the bus because of what someone else said which he disagrees with. It’s that simple.

    Except that is gross distortion of what actually happened in this specific matter.

    JD (75f5c3)

  99. i just don’t agree that a man should be thrown under the bus because of what someone else said which he disagrees with.

    hey, we’re not talking about throwing barack obama under a bus. the issue is, should we elect him our next president? this isn’t one man’s fate, it’s our collective fate, and all evidence relating to the character and substance of the candidate is admissible. even if he loses, he’ll still have an illinois senate seat and a wife who makes over 300 grand peddling diversity.

    assistant devil's advocate (89a7bf)

  100. “Obama has not shown any sign in his speeches and his behavior so far that he is affected by these negative relationships in his life.”

    Love2008 – If you can show me where Pablo agreed with this statement of yours I will be happy to retract my comment and apologize.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  101. It’s really amazing the length some folks will go to to protect the personal image they’ve imposed on Obama’s blank canvas.

    What they don’t get is those of us who have yet to drink the Kool-Aid are trying to figure out what and who Obama is.

    1)Is he the Messiah as the Kool-Aid drinkers believe?
    2)Is he just another Chicago-machine stooge?
    3)Is he a hard leftist, or was he just posing as one to get his career started?
    4)Is he a race-baiting annoyance like Jackson or Sharpton?
    5) Is there evidence that he’s able to govern competently?

    So we look at his past and his associates. So far it looks like 2, 3 & 4 are true, the others false. This annoys his disciples, of course, but they have yet to point out ANYTHING other than their personal witness to show why someone should vote for Obama.

    Can anyone show an objective reason why we should put this man in office? I mean besides doubling our taxes, surrendering in Iraq, destroying American medicine, and “forcing” us all to be attentive to the political process.

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  102. Alright Pablo, heres the big question, have you ever been a supporter of Obama and if you were can this Wright’s mess be enough to change your mind?

    Early on, I thought he was an interesting candidate. I wouldn’t call myself a supporter, but I am going to have to pick a candidate, and I’m not thrilled with any of the remaining options. The revelations about Wright weigh against Obama. I’m seeing new poll indicating that 70% agree with that. His negatives are climbing and his favorables are dropping. He’s now trailing Hillary nationally. Clearly, this is causing people to change their minds about him. Which it should as it speaks to his judgment.

    Pablo (99243e)

  103. #104
    Okay. Good enough. Some people on this thread tend to think that those who speak up for what they think is true are Obamafreaks. Its all good. I wish they will all take a cue from Pablo. He has much to teach. You can make your point without getting all worked up and calling people names and all that. This is politics. Poliltics is not a simple equation, it’s a complex matter. There is no one world view on any issue. you must be willing to see things, not only from your perspective but from other people’s view point. Now we are left with three choices, John Mccain, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama. One of these three remaining contenders will be the next president of the U S of A. That much is incontestable.

    love2008 (d2a57f)


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