Patterico's Pontifications

9/2/2007

The State of the Mexican Nation is … Expanding

Filed under: Immigration — DRJ @ 5:58 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

From Mexican President Felipe Calderon’s first State of the Nation speech delivered today:

President Felipe Calderon blasted U.S. immigration policies on Sunday and promised to fight harder to protect the rights of Mexicans in the U.S., saying “Mexico does not end at its borders.” The criticism earned Calderon a standing ovation during his first state-of-the nation address.

There’s more:

“We strongly protest the unilateral measures taken by the U.S. Congress and government that have only persecuted and exacerbated the mistreatment of Mexican undocumented workers,” he said. “The insensitivity toward those who support the U.S. economy and society has only served as an impetus to reinforce the battle … for their rights.”

He also reached out to the millions of Mexicans living in the United States, many illegally, saying: “Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico.”

Even though it’s tempting, I will not respond to this with sarcasm or anger. I will respond with logic (for all the good it will do):

President Calderon,

I have some news that will undoubtedly shock you:
Mexico does end at its borders.

DRJ

74 Responses to “The State of the Mexican Nation is … Expanding”

  1. Actually corruption, d4espotism, and lawlessness ends at Mexico’s frontiers. The rule of law begins where Mexico’s border ends.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  2. [...] president of Mexico says Mexico doesn’t end at its borders and that wherever there is a Mexican “there is [...]

    Right Angles » Blog Archive » This is what happens when to ignore immigration laws (6463e8)

  3. Not only does Mexico end at its borders, but the last time we and Mexico had a serious dispute about those borders, things didn’t turn out too well for Mexico.

    Not that I’m sayin’, I’m just sayin’.

    McGehee (25adee)

  4. And my link didn’t come through. Anyone interested can click my name under this comment.

    McGehee (25adee)

  5. Calderon has figured out how to end my support of NAFTA.

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd)

  6. My, My. For the past 50 years Mexico has been getting about of mileage by shouting “Yankee Imperialism.”

    Now Mexico is practicing imperialism to interfered with America’s right to govern its own territory.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  7. Mighty big words from a “Presidente” who is not even allowed to give his state of the nation speech as scheduled. (Last paragraph.)

    nk (a6ecc6)

  8. The only reason these insects are a nuisance is because we’re not swatting them.

    nk (a6ecc6)

  9. Dear Se…

    On the contrary, sir, unless you wish to reprise that little incident between us, Mexico does indeed stop at the border: President Felipe Calderon blasted U.S. immigration policies on Sunday and promised to fight harder to protect the rights of…

    Public Secrets: from the files of the Irishspy (72c8fd)

  10. Perfect Sense–actually, the Mexicans have been complaining about Yanqui imperialism since the lead up to the Alamo.

    kishnevi (11ab03)

  11. Well … to give him his due, if an American gets caught smuggling drugs in Turkey, we apply the rule “Where there is an American, that is America.” We then provide the American with a consulate supplied attorney and their next of kin with the proper mailing address for the next 40 years. So I suppose Calderon should start filling out the paperwork to get a couple of million attorneys legally into the U.S. in order to advise his citizens of their rights (none) before we send them back.

    I really don’t see a problem.

    Dan Ruch (b03ecb)

  12. Where There Is An American, There Is America…

    Imagine, for just one moment the screeching, seething volume of pure, unadulterated vitriol that would be directed at George W. Bush if he said anything even resembling that post title. The frothing rage would spew from your computer monitor …

    Blue Crab Boulevard (c6ff88)

  13. STOP THOSE TRUCKS!

    daleyrocks (906622)

  14. Nuke Mexico!…

    Funny. If, say, Hu Jintao were to state similar internationalist feelings, our military would go very quickly into “monitor-for-suspicious-activity-and-nuke-instantly” mode. But alas, Mexico will not be nuked because its only dangerous possession is …

    Hamstermotor (4f2c8a)

  15. Here was we say to filipe carron GO TAKE A HIKE YOU DAMN BANDITO

    krazy kagu (956b5b)

  16. Bad choice of words on his part. I’ll probably get flamed for posing this observation but is it possible his meaning was not about expanding borders but rather the idea that no matter where a Mexican is, they are still a citizen of Mexico. We feel the same about Americans abroad and if mistreated (not drawing a parallel between illegal aliens and Americans abroad) will speak out for them.

    As I mentioned bad choice of words on his part but I think it isn’t as sinister as some might read from it.

    voiceofreason (4c2388)

  17. VOR,

    No flaming from me. I’d be delighted if that’s what he meant but I can’t reconcile that analysis with the plain meaning of this language:

    President Felipe Calderon blasted U.S. immigration policies on Sunday and promised to fight harder to protect the rights of Mexicans in the U.S. …
    ***
    “We strongly protest the unilateral measures taken by the U.S. Congress and government that have only persecuted and exacerbated the mistreatment of Mexican undocumented workers,” he said. “The insensitivity toward those who support the U.S. economy and society has only served as an impetus to reinforce the battle … for their rights.”

    America persecutes, mistreats, and is insensitive to Mexicans? Mexicans have rights that Mexico intends to fight for? That doesn’t sound very diplomatic to me. It sounds like Mexico wants sanctioned social sovereignty for Mexicans in the US.

    DRJ (bfe07e)

  18. [...] Ace, Hotair, Patterico _uacct = “UA-1237831-1″; urchinTracker(); Posted in Illegal Immigration, Politics by [...]

    Infidels Are Cool » Blog Archive » Mexican President: “Mexico does not end at its borders” (afad56)

  19. i have no problem with president calderon’s statement. first, it’s important to recognize he’s speaking to his fellow mexicans, intended for domestic consumption, and he wouldn’t last the duration of his six-year term if he didn’t at least make a show of standing up to the mighty estados unidos.

    he’s talking about reconquista, something that’s been happening for a long time and is nothing to fear. we are the modern rome, and mexico is analogous to unusually peaceful goths. rome wasn’t conquered from without, it crumbled from within because its citizens lost their collective identity as romans and sought individual advantage and pleasure above all else. borders are artificial political constructs, but culture is a continuum; as a child of the southwest i was exposed to brown, spanish-speaking elements at a young age, infected by them, and now they don’t bother me. while i’m in complete accord with “deport the criminals first” i don’t see mexicans as a crisis, a problem, or even a bug; they’re just a feature of this part of the cage that’s planet earth. the way things are going, i even expect the peso will be more stable than the dollar someday. i’m sure there was a lot of empty jingoistic whining at the tail end of ancient rome too, only difference, they didn’t have internet. i expect to be flamed for writing this, and i expect that some of you flamers will unwittingly provide material for rich guffaws.

    assistant devil's advocate (bf6945)

  20. Mexico apparently exists within our national parks too. The Wild West

    Has there been any time in our history where we have bent down so low before other nations – and remained a nation? Does our own government believe the anti-American propaganda?

    Patricia (4117a9)

  21. Devil’s Add:

    I believe you have provided us all with a great deal of self parody. Your comments don’t even rise to the level of puerile.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  22. ADA….a contradiction….in your own words…in the same sentence….

    “borders are artificial political constructs, but culture is a continuum; as a child of the southwest i was exposed to brown, spanish-speaking elements at a young age, infected by them, and now they don’t bother me. while i’m in complete accord with “deport the criminals first” i don’t see mexicans as a crisis, a problem, or even a bug; they’re just a feature of this part of the cage that’s planet earth.”

    You can’t have borders without laws, and the Mexican Illegal immigrants are breaking the laws. But, you don’t see a problem, those illegal immigrants are just a feature.

    Either they are illegal, and should be deported, or they are not…

    Which is it?

    reff (4e3fcd)

  23. Calderon just made a call to Mexicans in the US to consider themselves a colony of Mexico. Its right there staring us in the face.

    And even if you believe massive immigration from a single source does not pose the risk of becoming a colony and even if you also believe he is just Grand Standing, what Calderon said is tantamount to an act of war. No nation makes those lightly unless they believe they will be unopposed or can gain something from it.

    Bush needs to demand he ‘corrects’ that statement. But I expect Bush to do nothing except possibly agree.

    jpm100 (d5518b)

  24. reff, you’re conflating the criminals in “deport the criminals first” with illegal aliens in general. i understand “deport the criminals first” to mean those people who have affirmatively broken a law beyond mere status/location issues, since a more general application of “deport the criminals first” would rob it of its specific value in making us safer against known bad guys, and render it another disingenuous, if not meaningless platitude. i believe patterico, who started it, was referring to the more specific application, hope he gets back soon to clear this up.

    assistant devil's advocate (bf6945)

  25. Ditto to what ada said.

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  26. I went to their embassy today and bought a dozen tacos for my son and 3 beef burritos for myself.

    Didn’t even need a passport.

    SlimGuy (ea6549)

  27. I can say this so much hate in the world targeting the hispanics right now all over from ever direction. I’m a citizen and they still look at you sometimes as oyu broken the law just for there profiling behaviors. I call it hate crime from your neighbors.

    Gloria (7c5020)

  28. There has to be a compromise immigration reform makes more sense. Stop the hate

    Gloria (7c5020)

  29. Gloria, the main viewpoint of the person who writes this blog (he’s on vacation right now) is that illegal aliens from any country who commit crimes, particularly serious violent crimes like rape or murder, should be deported.

    Do you agree or disagree? As a citizen.

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  30. All your border states are belong to us, ese! Viva Aztlan!

    Felipe Calderon (c36902)

  31. What hubris for Calderon to say those damn words.
    Hey, we must remind you the U.S. is a sovereign nation. And to think your illegals can come here with impunity, when they violate our laws, speaks volumes about how desperate it is for your corrupt government to take responsibility for your citizens.

    I can only say El Presidente is full of cojones.
    If there is a Mexico, why not get them all back to your borders? America, no, no. Mejico, si, si!

    This man is demented to think he can dictate to us. Nunca, nunca!

    RGL (d671ab)

  32. I can say this so much hate in the world targeting the hispanics right now all over from ever direction. I’m a citizen and they still look at you sometimes as oyu broken the law just for there profiling behaviors. I call it hate crime from your neighbors.

    There has to be a compromise immigration reform makes more sense. Stop the hate

    Hate against whom? LEGAL Immigrants, or ILLEGAL immigrants entering the US – a known welfare state with a misguided policy vis-a-vis anchor babies, public education, healthcare, etc…?

    If you hate the looks you receive from “them” (whoever “they” are), why aren’t you organizing your fellow citizens of Hispanic descent to vociferously demand that Mexico stop exporting its undesirables, that the US act forcefully to stem the flow from the south (and north), that laws be changed to stop anchor babies, & deny any public services to those who’ve broken US law to be here regardless of their country of origin, that criminals be deported, etc…

    Why does there have to be a compromise? Mexico doesn’t compromise on it’s immigration policies towards those entering illegally from Central and South America.

    Stop with the Oprahfied whining

    Horatio (55069c)

  33. All your border states are belong to us, ese! Viva Aztlan!

    Comment by Felipe Calderon — 9/3/2007 @ 4:50 am

    One would have to view Calderon as the enemy.

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  34. One would think Hispanics in Mexico would Hate their billionaire socialist politicians who say to the poor starving Hispanic “listen up poor peasant starving Hispanics, leave your families behind and take this map, cross a barren desert so you can cross the border illegally into the neighbors yard, go get a job working under the table and then send all your money back to the government of Mexico so we can tell Mexico’s poor Hispanic peasants just how hateful is the neighbor to the north”.Instead of ‘stop the hate’ how about stop the ruthless Mexican government from driving their poor peasants into lawless misery.

    I don’t believe many Americans really understand just how evil it is to aid billionaire collectivists who want to develop a permanant underclass of peasant workers to clean their Malibu mansions for cheap.

    I thought “in the name of Jesus” that Methodist and Catholics were all about helping the poor, so why are they helping greedy collectivist billionaires rape, pillage, plunder and drive a massive slave trade operation across a barren desert?

    I can’t imagine these days that Jesus is too happy with his believers.

    syn (7faf4d)

  35. Lets just wipe these scum off the face of the earth and get it over with, shall we? You wouldn’t hesitate to pick a pimple on the end of your nose, yet we continue to let Mexico exist? Why exactly?

    TheManTheMyth (9a7d6a)

  36. If President Felipe Calderon of Mexico would spend more time and energy trying to make the quality of life for his citizens acceptable, instead of always bashing the U.S. over it’s immigration (migration) policy, he would be much better off. I personally take his statements about the U.S. as insulting, and they make little to no sense, other then his lame childish attempt to make himself look good to Mexican’s everywhere. As far as him knowing if some of his family living in the U.S. are legal or illegal is a bunch of crap, he knows exactly what their status is. In the end he needs to understand that the U.S. is not a colony for Mexico’s poor and uneducated, I doubt that it is possible, but try being a decent neighbor for a change.

    Warren A. McCarns Jr. (5ee6dd)

  37. feel the hate on here, savor the whining of scared gringos, the lamentations over their loss of global superiority, first in industry, then finance, and now as the limits on american military power stand starkly revealed. anticipate the periodic rising of demagogues invoking the dreaded brown peril swarming among us, in order to distract attention from their own colossal failures. know that congress can no more solve a “problem” with immigration from a country in such substantial contact with us as mexico than it can legislate thermodynamics, because the thermodynamic model best explains the equilibration in standard of living across a permeable membrane stretching from san diego to el paso. laugh with me as adam smith’s invisible hand gives the finger to these scared gringos, and most important of all, adapt. adapt to the increasing pace of change or die unmourned.

    assistant devil's advocate (768c4e)

  38. ‘Wipe these scum off the face of the earth’
    Oh my dear that’s a job Americans will never do.. Hugo or Ahmadinejad for sure, but Americans never.

    “continue to let Mexico exist?”
    Unfortuantely as Hugo Chavez and his billionaire Collectivist Club obtains greater Latin American power poor Mexico will soon cease to exist by de facto Latin American Imperialism.

    Another reason not to support the current wave of slave trade ‘Illegal’ immigration, we are only enabling Collectivist tyrannical governments to consume poor Hispanic and Mexican citizens who just want to be able to feed their families without having to cross a barren desert to do it.

    syn (7faf4d)

  39. Hey ADA who are you to call us Gringo, white man.

    syn (7faf4d)

  40. Now you’ve gone off the deep end, ada, although I’m sure you’ll find some nutbars (there’s always some) to rationalize it.

    By and large, though, racism is in decline though for a lot of reasons, communications technology and air travel being chief among them.

    And thank God. It’s tough to find something I despise more than racism and I’ve felt that way since a certain defining incident in my childhood.

    And thank God again for that defining moment for that left me free to enjoy the love of the most amazing woman in the world, my mixed race girlfriend, not that I would usually refer to her as such. And I can better appreciate my mixed race self.

    If you were right, I’d agree with you, but you’re wrong: It’s the opposite of what you believe.

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  41. I would suggest that we could amend our Constitution to deport one “undesirable” American citizen to Mexico for every hard-working Mexican worker that comes here but I’m afraid that lawyers would be the first to go. ;)

    nk (a6ecc6)

  42. And BTW, ada #23,

    I used “insects” as a metaphor for the problem of illegal immigration and not for Mexicans.

    nk (a6ecc6)

  43. Mexico continues to try to solve its social problems by sending them north to the US. This has to stop. It takes an illogic that stagers the imagination to make the statements that the president of mexico has made, but then, consider the source. We cannot rely on the mexicans to do the right thing; when have they ever done the right thing? It is entirely up the US to put a stop to this invasion, and we must do it firmly and without any hesitation.

    Remember the Alamo!!

    Dr. D (c468a2)

  44. Hey Gloria, #28 & #29,

    “I can say this so much hate in the world targeting the hispanics right now all over from ever direction. I’m a citizen and they still look at you sometimes as oyu broken the law just for there profiling behaviors. I call it hate crime from your neighbors.”

    Yeah. That’s what I call it too when I am stereotyped by the illegals who enroll their kids at the school where I work and insist that I must speak Spanish because I am olive skinned and dark haired. And its really hateful when I politely tell them no, I don’t speak Spanish and patiently attempt to understand their questions, and instead of acknowledging this they either continue to insist I speak Spanish – or they angrily call me crude names…in English, no less.

    Dana (70a8b2)

  45. Come on now ADA, don’t get yourself all fired up in a Latin lather. I know it must hurt to hear some of the things Anglos say here, but it isn’t because we “hate” Mexicans. It’s just that you dump all your social problems on us, in such large numbers that it’s rapidly becoming an impossible situation. Rather than make silly comments about “brown power” and “taking over”, you ought to at least publicly recognize that you need us a heck of a lot more that we need you. So take it off the front burner and let it simmer down a bit, Jose.

    Let’s face it: y’all didn’t come here to “support” the American economy like your president put it in his recent speech (obviously to save face). The reason you came up here from Mexico was to escape the hellhole that Mexicans have created. And you’ve had more than a few years to make things better, too, let’s face it. 2000 years of Mexican civilization plus 500 years of Spanish civilization on top of that? Isn’t that about right?

    So when you came up here, it wasn’t to transplant any successful culture. When you came up here you didn’t come to set up your own towns and cities in the wilderness the way we did in New England. If you wanted wilderness, you would’ve just stayed in Mexico. No, you came up here to escape your own people and your own culture. You knew you had to come over the border to live with Anglos, work for Anglos, or serve Anglos, if you were going to make any decent kind of living. And please don’t take it personal, it’s all of Mexico that thinks that way. What was that recent Mexican opinion poll that showed a majority of Mexicans want to sneak over the border to come to the United States and work for Anglos? ended isn’t just a job. You know that (unlike your own people) we will give your children a free education through high school, affirmative action, and won’t even try and cheat you like your own Mexican businessmen, police and judges do.

    You came here to serve Anglos in exchange for good Anglo treatment — better treatment than you could ever hope to receive from your own people.

    You came up here to escape the hellhole of poverty, ignorance, and disease that is Mexico, and I’ll be frank with you, I just can’t blame you. God knows, if I was trapped in Mexico I would move heaven and earth to get the hell out of there and away from the Mexicans to a good Anglo country, just like you did.

    But the problem, and even if you don’t know economics you have to admit it’s true, is that there are only so many of you Mexicans that we Anglos can civilize, educate, and take care of. Already, California is facing bankruptcy because some 500,000 of you are crawling over broken rocks, burning desert, just to get up here where we can take care you and give you a job.

    At 500,000 new Mexicans a year, there are just too many of you, we Anglos just can’t take care of all of y’all anymore. Somebody like me, I prefer to mow my own lawn and my wife prefers to cook our food, so we don’t have any jobs we can give you (it’s a quality thing).

    So let’s say you did take over the way you say you want to in your e-mail (and I really don’t think you want to, you’re not stupid). You know as well as I do that things will turn as sh!tty as they are in Mexico. Already dozens of hospitals in California are shutting down because there are too few Anglos left to pay for the free medical care necessary to take care of all of the Mexicans. California schools are already having to hire half-educated teachers just have a warm body in a classroom. And it’s only going to get worse.

    And what she turned California into the very thing you’re desperately trying to escape from, what would you do? You’d have to go invade the next Anglo country, Canada, and fill it up until there are so many of you that they can’t take care of you either. And then there would be no place left to go, would there?

    So we need to come to some kind of understanding here. Our frustration with being burdened with a bunch of overgrown kids that have no capacity for a higher civilization isn’t hatred, it’s just a recognition that invading the United States isn’t the way to go about civilizing y’all and raising y’all up to Anglo standards.

    Again, I’m not unsympathetic. I understand exactly where you’re coming from. I would hate to live in Mexico. I would be just like that Mexican illegal alien who was begging Calderon to send her as an ambassador to the United States. I would abandon my children in the United States just like she did if it was the only thing I could do to keep them in America and away from Mexican culture and values.

    But don’t feel too bad. We know you really don’t want to take over. Without us to provide you with jobs, medicine, education, values, honest government and police, you’d sink back into the same quagmire you and millions like you dragged yourself over the border to escape. You don’t want that, and neither do we.

    Good luck, brother, I’m glad I’m not in your shoes. I figure I’d be embarrassed and defensive as hell, too. But as a citizen of this country we have to decide for ourselves just like you have to decide for your country, Mexico. Not that it’s any of my business, but you might start by raising taxes above the 12% Mexico currently charges, and investing in human beings, you know? You might try building Mexican schools, training Mexican doctors, paving Mexican roads, drilling Mexican wells, instead of just trying to escape and come live with us. I think you’d like yourself a lot more and have a lot more self-respect as a people if you didn’t just run off to live with us whenever troubles crop up. We’d be glad to help you. God knows of most of you work hard, and as a hard-working people, we appreciate that, but we just aren’t persuaded we should let you live off of us. And because we as a people don’t believe in exploiting human beings the way you Mexicans do, we can’t just give you a bag of beans, a bag of rice, $200 a month and tell you to get lost. We take our human obligations much more seriously than that. But of course y’all already know that, and that’s why you fight like hell not to get sent back to Mexico.

    Big Bill (e5c0d5)

  46. I believe Big Bill’s comment #47 says it all.

    nk (a6ecc6)

  47. da:
    How does one become so inflamed with hate thatreason can be so easily jettisoned. I wonder how Mexicans would rect, acually I can visualize it if an American president addressed the Congress and said America’s southern borders didn’t end at the Rio Grande.

    But keep posting, your screeds remind me of those from the mullah village. I never ascribe to malice that which may be adequately explained by ignorance, poor education, and an obvious land of grey matter. So keep up the neurotic and impertinent dronning. It shows us why 18 year olds shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  48. Way to go, Big Bill!

    Another Drew (758608)

  49. The Mexican Reich needs Lebensraum.

    Person of Choler (2f1b0a)

  50. This is cultural warfare as much as economic, legal and political. As of last year, Mexico has the 13th-biggest GDP in the world, ahead of Australia.

    Anybody think the 12,000 Americans in San Miguel de Allende bother to speak Spanish? They don’t need it to transact ANY business. I saw packs of them screaming at humble craft vendors who couldn’t understand a finger pointed at them as discounts were demanded.

    Increasingly attracting capital, Mexico will inevitably export fewer campesinos. Calderon’s display of machismo was primarily that of a scared leader seeking a hit of domestic political capital.

    Gringos never have liked Mexicans in any conventional sense. While everyone sees solid, principled reasons to restrict the immigrant tide, distilling cultural distaste out of the debate seems – at least to me – quite impossible.

    steve (8229c4)

  51. Anybody think the 12,000 Americans in San Miguel de Allende bother to speak Spanish?

    Would those be the 12,000 illegal immigrant Americans who demand free health care, demand that Mexico educate their children, drive without insurance and and who undercut local wages?

    Or would that be the 12,000 legal American residents of San Miguel de Allende?

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  52. “Calderon has figured out how to end my support of NAFTA.”

    More proof Robin that you have no idea wtf you’re talking about. NAFTA increased poverty in Mexico, driving people north. It was good for the elite on both sides of the border, but not for the workers, on either side. You shouldn’t have supported NAFTA to begin with.

    “The US does not end at its borders.”
    “Where there is an American, there is America.”
    Sounds like a lot of people on this site.
    Again: no history, no context. Your Monroe Doctrine, your peoblem.

    AF (e7839e)

  53. “It sounds like Mexico wants sanctioned social sovereignty for Mexicans in the US.”

    DRJ,

    I don’t speak spanish and wish I could to really know if the translation is the tone or intent. But illegals primarily come here because businesses and individuals hire them for the low wages. In other words is he more concerned with their basic human rights or does the English translation mean something more sinister?
    They are Mexican citizens and he is going to speak out for them (even if we don’t agree with his premise) just as American leaders speak out on the behalf of Americans abroad.

    I’m not an open borders advocate and support border enforcement and a reasonable plan to deal with already in place illegals.

    But we have to acknowledge our ownership of the problem of illegal immigration. Too many are making the Hispanics themselves the “enemy” rather than the causes that make them come here with inadequate controls.
    regards,
    VOR

    voiceofreason (0de9a6)

  54. I’m so tired of this “reconquista” crap. Mexico never owned the American Southwest. They *claimed* it, but the Comanche *owned* it. Ever wonder why Mexico insisted that Anglos should stay out of Texas up to a point, but then actually invited them to settle there? It’s because they had sent an armed force of 20,000 Mexican soldiers into Texas, to finally try to clear out the Comanche… unfortunately, the Comanche pretty well wiped out that invading force (we could take a clue). Thereafter, Mexico decided it needed a buffer and invited Anglos to make colonies. Anglo settlers discovered repeating weapons and overcame the Comanche and thus established their legitimate claim to the territory; that is, they were able to take – and hold – the territory. By the rules of the day, Texicans owned Texas. Still do, unless they keep going in the current direction of simply *giving* it to Mexico.

    Anti Azt (a03ebd)

  55. Or would that be the 12,000 legal American residents of San Miguel de Allende?

    After the permitted 6 months, most just set foot back in the U.S. and return for another stretch. Undetected.

    They fill San Miguel nursing homes, get knee replacement surgery ($6,400 at a Houston-affiliated medical clinic) and gripe. There’s almost no government regulation, so while costs are low, you get rough edges, such as peeling paint or frayed sofas, that would turn off many Americans.

    The Mexican Social Security Institute, or IMSS, runs clinics and hospitals nationwide and allows foreigners to enroll in its program even if they never worked in Mexico or paid taxes to support the system.

    This is breaking news?

    steve (5b676d)

  56. NAFTA increased poverty in Mexico, driving people north.

    So it’s the fault of America that the Mexican government is corrupt and incompetent?

    AF, you are a piece of work.

    Paul (09c70a)

  57. AF, is there no subject on which you will not pull invented facts out of your backside?

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd)

  58. I’ve looked at the original speech here: Mexican State of the Union.

    It is exactly as provocative as it sounds in English. It is a clear appeal to the Mexican people, a vote buyer. Nevertheless, it is still a clear challenge to the US.

    [Thanks for the link, Dr. T. I edited it to fix a duplication that prevented it from opening. -- DRJ]

    Dr T (b1f404)

  59. Calderon made his statements because the Mexican constitution says that Mexican citizens are free to travel, unrestricted, anywhere. That includes into foreign nations. So Calderon, like his predecessor, Fox, feels that the U.S. has no right to impede any Mexican from entering the U.S. at will.

    Never mind that Calderon is a hypocrite. For while he allows his citizens to violate our federal laws and refuses to put his military on his northern border to stop the flow of drugs and human cargo, Mexico, to the cheering crowds, sends it’s military to it’s southern border to stop the flow of Central and South Americans. Not that Mexico treats it’s illegals better than we do. Quite the contrary. They jail them, often for two years, after they have been robbed, beaten and if they are women, more often than not, raped.

    Calderon is walking a tight rope. His goverment is unstable and he is losing billions from the money that has been sent back to Mexico by illegal working in our nation. Those monitary transfers are diminishing and he knows it. So he has to show some bluster to bolster his popularity.

    Mexico has been taking our foreign aid money while thumbing it’s nose at us for years. The lastest fiasco is the allowing of Mexican trucks coming into our nation. The Teamsters tried to stop it in the 9th Circus Court of Appeals but the judge ruled against them on the basis that it would “strain” relationships with Mexico. Never mind that someone failed to tell the dimwit judge that Mexico is not going to allow American truckers into Mexico. Trucking loads will have be to dropped at the border to wait for a Mexican trucking firm to pick them up.
    What about straining relationships with the U.S. or is America bashing just sooooo en vogue?

    So within one week, Calderon has totally thumbed his nose at the U.S., first by saying that he is going to appeal to the U.S. to allow a law breaker, Elvira Arellano, back into the U.S. inspite of the fact that she stole some poor slobs Social Security number who will not have hell trying to get his account straigtened out or that she was deported once, re-entered and was caught again. A TEN YEAR AUTOMATIC SENTENCE IN MEXICO.

    I have nothing against Mexicans or Hispanic in general. As a Texican, a lot of my friends are Tejanos and they are the ones really upset over the illegals in our nation. After three generations, they have finally gotten to the point where they can work mostly blue collar jobs that have allowed them to support their families and make life better for their kids. But now they realize they are being undercut, wage wise, but illegals who will for for a lot less, sometimes even half wage, and they are looking at being out of a job.

    If Calderon doesn’t like our laws, then I have a suggestion for him. Don’t take our aid dollars. Get Carlos Slim, a Mexican and the richest man in the world, to support your peon class. Provide them with an education and medical care. No matter who you are, in Mexico, it costs at least $200 to have a baby in a hospital. At Park Lane Hospital in Dallas, 90% of all babies born are anchor babies. Just by jumping the border, the woman saved $200 and got a free ride in the U.S.

    It has to end. The extent of American’s tax dollars, and patience, does know an end. And it is coming very, very soon.

    How Mexico treats illegals:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13006798/site/newsweek

    retire05 (e18723)

  60. “So it’s the fault of America that the Mexican government is corrupt and incompetent?”
    No you fucking jackass it’s the fault of the people like you that our government is corrupt and incompetent.

    AF (e7839e)

  61. Steve in #52 & #57

    It appears you are saying that 12-20 million illegal Mexican immigrants in the United States is the moral equivalence of 12,000 legal Americans in San Miguel.

    No wonder this debate is so futile.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  62. AF, did it ever occur to you that your attitude is part of the problem? Perhaps you would be happier to just stay in that stinking hole you call Mexico and see if you can find a job at least in one of the tourist towns where the water won’t kill you, and your dog.

    Now I understand that if Mexicans have to take responsibility for their own nation, not only will it stink, it will be in the toilet.

    Oh, wait, it already is.

    retire05 (e18723)

  63. Since illegal aliens do jobs that Americans won’t do, we need an illegal alien to wash AF’s mouth out with soap.

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd)

  64. Steve:

    Another cretin spreading misinformation. Mexico Social Security system in no way resembles a western social security system and no one in their right mind would seek medical treatment unless it was to terminate your life. And I can think of far quicker ways that are less painful and a whole lot less degrading than to strave to death of die of blood poisoning.

    Hell there are 50,000 foreigners in Sn Miguel, most in gated communities. Comparing them to the campasinos in LA is a joke. These foreigners be they Americans or Europeans, do not place a burden on the Mexican people, in fact every foreigner there probably supports two-three Mexicans. No wonder there are so many fine dinning establishments and hotels in such a small city. Probably no other city in Mexico is as diverse or well endowed in a cultural sense.

    Most Americans do speak Spanish, if you don’t count the winter birds and tourists, so who the hell are you kidding?

    Your ideological blinders must be firmly in place to make such Michael Bellesilees type comments.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  65. I have nothing against Mexicans or Hispanic in general.

    Oh, it’s obvious.

    The Mexican constitution says that Mexican citizens are free to travel, unrestricted, anywhere. That includes into foreign nations.

    I hear most countries allow that.

    Mexico is not going to allow American truckers into Mexico. Trucking loads will have be to dropped at the border to wait for a Mexican trucking firm to pick them up.

    You know this, how? Nothing can happen until the inspector general of the Department of Transportation blesses the one-year experiment and until the Mexican government issues permits to U.S. trucking companies.

    He [Calderon] has to show some bluster to bolster his popularity.

    Yeah, and Elvira Arellano is his poster girl. The question we should be asking is why U.S. police were dragging their feet for ten years deporting this criminal. She’s not the face of immigrants any more than Calderon has a viable grievance.

    steve (61062c)

  66. Ah, the guy’s President of Mexico.

    Nobody cares what he says, he’s a puppet… Just ask the commies!

    mojo (8096f2)

  67. Is it really true that Mexico’s tax rate is only 12 percent? And they still can’t engender a business class capable of employing their own people? Does that mean credit is all but impossible to obtain without connections/graft, and ditto for business licenses and decent labor relations? And don’t forget, Calderon is the Ivy-educated supply-sider, the Mexican “good cop” Americans are supposed to be grateful for. No wonder Vicente Fox said catching up to the US would take “generations.”

    Seth Halpern (b0cd61)

  68. Pobrecitos! I really don’t know who to loathe first – the rednecks or the peons. Personally, different sides of the same coin. California (Indeed, the entire Southwest) has always had an “immigration” problem. My grandmother (a native of……Santa Monica) used to bemoan the illegal immigration in California – from foreign places like Texas and Oklahoma. And the peons from Mexico (or meheeeco, as they say)! First, they can barely speak spanish, let alone read or write. And so short! Even the women in my family are at least 5’9″. My grandmother ( surnamed “Morales Olmos”) hated Mexico. Hated it like I imagine a Huguenot could hate France. She was proud to live in the U.S., proud to be a citizen (like her parents and grandparents – I don’t think the great grandparents were – we were not part of the U. S. yet.)

    So I am unimpressed by anything the president of Mexico says – as if he can even control 5 square miles of Mexico City (even in the Polanco district!)

    And the illegals here – you mean they are not violating U. S. law for personal financial gain? If that is A-OK, well then I shall open a waste treatment center/toxic waste dump in the nearest wilderness preserve. Those who would protest are likely only racist elitists anyway. (wink wink) or better yet! A toxic waste dump in an immigrant enclave! Hey companero, I am only trying to make a living! Besides, we were here first and have a superior “claim” to the land. But fear not, companero – I’ll let you stay on as a peon – just no direct eye contact.

    P.S. – We’ll handle ada the old way, a’la’ 1492 – it is our love of the law, after all, that sets us apart from the indios. Buenas noches. para Dios y Espana, er um “California”

    Californio (1f9320)

  69. No actually we name important places and military equiptment after North American Idios. Illegals on the other hand we tend to liken to diahrhea I guess thier our own personal montazeumas revenge …yep scalding amebic dissentery.

    Ben Franklin vii (c36902)

  70. This is all a conspiracy of the racist ruling clas in Mexico and the racist ruling class in the US.Its called supply and demand. The spanisn type rich people in Mexico has no need for a large supply of poor Indians,just a few to cook for them and clean their houses until they are too old to function then they are dicarded. The Anglo type big farm and factory owners need lots of people to work for almost nothing, which is more than they would get in Mexico..We working or middle class shuncks should stay out of it, we dont have a dog in this fight. If we put up a fence and keep out the disadvantaged they will scale the walls of President Calderone and his rish cohorts looking for food and choas in Mexico and ,mayhem will be worse for us. Calm down America is strong it will survive.

    Sheila Hazel (c668d7)

  71. Sorry for all the typos.I grew up far from the border so there were no illegals to crowd me out it my class room, its the aging process. Lighten-up America will survive.God blesses this country because of our generosity.Mexico doesnt prosper because of their collective lack of compassion towards the poor. El Presidente is just talking,because thats all he has the will to do.

    Sheila Hazel (c668d7)

  72. What does Arizona Senator John McCain have to say about the issue. A POW survivor in Vietnam and Arizona resident who knows what the hell is really going on down on the border. Does anyone know what he has said about immigration issues? I would like to know what the presidential candidate says. I would like to believe he has a grasp on the subject and also wants to see this great country of ours continue to prosper. Thank you.

    Peter Christopher (8d606c)


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